[00:01.100 --> 00:09.640]  Muslim lands, a new memoir by Professor Leila Ahmed, or Muslim political candidates in the USA.
[00:10.140 --> 00:17.740]  These and more are questions you can hear discussed on Tahrir, WBAI's magazine of the Arab Muslim community.
[00:18.460 --> 00:26.940]  Marhaba, I'm Barbara Numeri Aziz, and I'd like you to join me and our Tahrir staff every Tuesday night at 9 o'clock.
[00:26.940 --> 00:29.760]  That's Tuesdays from 9 to 10 p.m.
[00:30.100 --> 00:35.760]  here on listener-sponsored WBAI 99.5 FM in New York.
[00:35.760 --> 00:39.480]  You're sure to find something new and sometimes controversy.
[00:58.160 --> 01:02.060]  Housing Notebook has, in fact, moved to Monday evenings at 7.
[01:02.960 --> 01:07.950]  WBAI continues to keep tenants abreast and informed on the latest housing issues.
[01:08.200 --> 01:13.740]  Make note, now heard Monday evenings at 7, be sure to tune in for Housing Notebook.
[01:14.060 --> 01:17.260]  I said that, well, I won't underestimate you here.
[01:17.620 --> 01:18.230]  No!
[01:18.850 --> 01:23.510]  But now, it's Tuesday night at 8 p.m., and you know what that means.
[01:29.800 --> 01:34.260]  The telephone keeps ringing, so I ripped it off the wall.
[01:35.300 --> 01:39.860]  I cut myself while shaving, now I can't make a call.
[01:45.410 --> 01:48.190]  Bum-diddly-bum, but the best is fake and worst.
[01:48.890 --> 01:51.770]  I hope that's understood, bum-diddly-bum!
[02:17.340 --> 02:18.490]  It's Off The Hook.
[03:35.410 --> 03:36.630]  And a good evening to everybody.
[03:36.650 --> 03:37.590]  The program is Off The Hook.
[03:37.690 --> 03:41.690]  Emmanuel Goldstein here with you for the next hour, talking about all kinds of issues.
[03:41.890 --> 03:43.750]  Oh, boy, we have a lot to cover tonight.
[03:44.390 --> 03:48.230]  And the clock's broken, too, so we're going to have a tough time figuring out when to stop.
[03:48.410 --> 03:51.230]  But hopefully somebody will help us.
[03:52.010 --> 03:53.550]  Well, I'm back from Europe.
[03:54.090 --> 03:56.570]  Last week I called in from Berlin.
[03:56.910 --> 04:03.790]  And thanks very much, Isaac and Laszlo, for your help getting us through the night.
[04:05.590 --> 04:13.810]  Well, the night after I talked to you, I showed the film, Freedom of Downtime, at the Chaos Communications Congress.
[04:14.090 --> 04:15.250]  Now, I've got to tell you something.
[04:17.190 --> 04:22.950]  They've been having these computer hacker conferences over there for 17 years now.
[04:23.170 --> 04:25.190]  In fact, they called this 17C3.
[04:25.410 --> 04:26.230]  That's what they called it.
[04:26.410 --> 04:26.510]  Yeah.
[04:27.630 --> 04:28.550]  CCC 2000.
[04:28.870 --> 04:30.470]  It's got a big picture of Hal's eye there.
[04:30.470 --> 04:34.310]  That's their trademark logo thing.
[04:35.450 --> 04:37.410]  And they had a couple thousand people there.
[04:37.690 --> 04:40.710]  It just seems so different than anything that goes on here.
[04:41.410 --> 04:45.730]  You know, conferences where people just run around and go crazy and don't really learn anything.
[04:46.290 --> 04:49.550]  Of course, not all of them are like that, but there are, you know, some of the bigger ones are.
[04:50.730 --> 04:53.590]  And it's very heartening.
[04:53.690 --> 04:57.170]  Even though you can't understand the word most people are saying, that's not what it's about.
[04:57.170 --> 05:04.670]  It's about interacting, meeting people, seeing how computers are put together over there, and getting onto the net.
[05:04.770 --> 05:07.250]  Always the big challenge, getting on the net.
[05:07.370 --> 05:08.250]  Big hassle, big challenge.
[05:08.410 --> 05:09.410]  But that's what it's all about.
[05:10.090 --> 05:12.070]  And, of course, we were able to do it eventually.
[05:12.670 --> 05:14.110]  Every conference has that big question.
[05:14.210 --> 05:15.810]  Will the net connection work?
[05:15.970 --> 05:17.770]  So they have the same thing as H2K?
[05:18.170 --> 05:19.550]  Where they couldn't get on the net at the...
[05:19.550 --> 05:19.970]  Well, yeah.
[05:20.390 --> 05:28.990]  And they blend on AT&T, too, which I thought was kind of interesting how AT&T can reach its long, incompetent arm around the planet and screw things up over there, too.
[05:29.450 --> 05:31.010]  The invisible hand of AT&T.
[05:31.270 --> 05:31.930]  Yeah, yeah.
[05:32.290 --> 05:33.670]  But they got it going.
[05:33.850 --> 05:37.230]  They got it going, and there was a connection.
[05:37.450 --> 05:38.330]  And we showed the film.
[05:38.370 --> 05:41.910]  This is interesting, too, because this was in the eastern part of Berlin.
[05:43.250 --> 05:53.950]  And they had this building that was used formerly by the Communist Party to train Communist Party members on what was right and what was not right.
[05:54.170 --> 05:55.090]  We call this brainwashing.
[05:55.290 --> 05:55.730]  Brainwashing.
[05:55.830 --> 05:56.010]  Okay.
[05:56.050 --> 05:58.930]  You know, or just instructing people, educating people as they...
[05:58.930 --> 05:59.510]  Education.
[05:59.970 --> 06:00.950]  All different words for it.
[06:01.830 --> 06:06.530]  And, of course, they weren't in that building anymore because they, you know, lost power.
[06:06.670 --> 06:08.070]  But the building is still there.
[06:08.150 --> 06:09.070]  So they used that building.
[06:09.570 --> 06:14.350]  And that's where they show the film in the huge auditorium, where they used to show propaganda films.
[06:14.470 --> 06:15.730]  That's where they showed Freedom Down Time.
[06:16.230 --> 06:17.830]  Thousand seats, all painted orange.
[06:17.830 --> 06:24.770]  It was so intimidating looking, you know, when I was up there on stage presenting things, just looking out over the mob of people.
[06:24.870 --> 06:30.070]  Of course, they were nice individual people, not all clones, you know, thinking the same way.
[06:31.630 --> 06:33.070]  So, yeah, it was good.
[06:33.810 --> 06:34.390]  It was really good.
[06:34.530 --> 06:34.930]  I was happy.
[06:34.930 --> 06:41.570]  Anyway, Chaos Communications Congress, for those people who have not made it, it happens at the end of every December.
[06:41.810 --> 06:44.210]  So there'll be another one next year, probably in the same place.
[06:44.610 --> 06:46.350]  I don't think there's any reason...
[06:46.350 --> 06:47.650]  At the indoctrination center.
[06:47.650 --> 06:51.530]  Yeah, there's no reason for it not to be there because they don't wreck the place.
[06:51.530 --> 06:52.710]  They don't do anything bad.
[06:53.850 --> 06:54.970]  Was it mostly in German?
[06:55.410 --> 06:57.870]  Yeah, well, they are German, so they do speak mostly.
[06:57.950 --> 06:58.290]  I don't know.
[06:58.350 --> 06:59.610]  There's people from all over the world there.
[06:59.610 --> 07:07.510]  Yeah, well, no, I mean, you have no trouble speaking to people in English, but most of the panels tend to be in German, but it's not hard to get translations of things.
[07:08.150 --> 07:13.370]  But it's just, it's so fascinating just wandering around a different environment, which is what I like doing.
[07:14.330 --> 07:26.310]  And, you know, Isaac, you're going to love this, but, you know, every time I go over there, Germany, Holland, Denmark, European countries in general, I just can't help but think how much better things are over there.
[07:26.410 --> 07:27.070]  I hope you pack.
[07:27.610 --> 07:32.590]  Well, you know, you see, that's your simplistic attitude speaking there, that if you don't like it, leave.
[07:32.850 --> 07:36.250]  I say if you don't like something, you stay and you fix it.
[07:36.590 --> 07:37.610]  Well, no, I wouldn't say...
[07:37.610 --> 07:42.030]  And there's lots of parallels we can be drawing tonight about that, and we will later, but...
[07:42.030 --> 07:47.770]  See, that was always the big argument in the 80s, is when you, you know, you sort of argue, if you don't like it, you can go to Russia.
[07:47.990 --> 07:48.230]  Mm-hmm.
[07:48.230 --> 07:48.710]  Huh?
[07:49.350 --> 07:58.810]  Well, all right, I will express sympathy for you in that I find it very sad that you can't look upon America and see the great things that we have here.
[07:58.810 --> 08:00.050]  Oh, I see great potential.
[08:00.490 --> 08:01.650]  I like the people.
[08:02.190 --> 08:03.090]  Oh, yeah, great potential.
[08:03.230 --> 08:04.170]  But let me tell you something.
[08:04.250 --> 08:07.110]  Tell me where Germany is in the various stack of nations.
[08:07.110 --> 08:10.090]  Well, they didn't have 10,000 people killed by handguns last year.
[08:10.090 --> 08:11.770]  Let's not even get into the gun issue.
[08:12.370 --> 08:14.770]  Let's not even get into guns, okay?
[08:14.870 --> 08:21.030]  Because, you know, I actually, you know, was trying to defend America over there from being looked upon as a nation of lunatics.
[08:21.170 --> 08:24.990]  It doesn't help that the day I'm doing this, some maniac decides to mow people down in Massachusetts.
[08:25.210 --> 08:27.450]  You know, I just sort of bowed out of the conversation at that point.
[08:27.510 --> 08:28.190]  I said, okay, whatever.
[08:28.810 --> 08:30.310]  And that happens nowhere else in the world.
[08:30.370 --> 08:32.310]  No, it really doesn't happen anywhere else in the world.
[08:32.470 --> 08:37.070]  I mean, and when it does happen anywhere else in the world, it's a big deal and something is done about it.
[08:37.330 --> 08:38.030]  Yeah, absolutely.
[08:40.090 --> 08:42.690]  I mean, you must know this, but let's not get into that.
[08:42.970 --> 08:44.910]  You know, we can spend the whole hour talking about that.
[08:45.470 --> 08:46.350]  There is...
[08:46.730 --> 08:48.630]  Somebody came up to me after we showed the film.
[08:49.610 --> 08:52.270]  And you tell me if it's possible to do this here, okay?
[08:52.350 --> 08:57.130]  And they said, I can get this film played on Dutch national television.
[08:57.750 --> 08:58.790]  Dutch national television.
[08:59.150 --> 08:59.850]  Like, wait a minute.
[08:59.950 --> 09:00.810]  Dutch national television.
[09:00.810 --> 09:03.650]  That's the equivalent of our PBS, I guess.
[09:03.870 --> 09:05.830]  You know, the non-commercial network.
[09:06.750 --> 09:09.330]  Well, now, how would we have to cut it?
[09:09.330 --> 09:10.150]  Like, would we have to censor it?
[09:10.190 --> 09:10.830]  No, no, no.
[09:10.970 --> 09:12.150]  There's no censorship.
[09:12.370 --> 09:12.850]  There's no cutting.
[09:13.010 --> 09:14.310]  You can use four-letter words.
[09:14.390 --> 09:16.770]  You can show topless people or whatever.
[09:17.010 --> 09:18.150]  Not that we do that in the film.
[09:18.250 --> 09:20.030]  But that's the norm.
[09:20.450 --> 09:23.630]  The norm is not the kind of censorship that we're used to.
[09:23.790 --> 09:25.030]  People speak freely on the radio.
[09:25.170 --> 09:26.250]  People speak freely on TV.
[09:26.650 --> 09:30.270]  You see a much wider variety of programming because it comes from different nations.
[09:31.090 --> 09:34.870]  There is more of an appreciation of alternative cultures of all sorts.
[09:34.870 --> 09:36.690]  So, yeah, I think they're better.
[09:36.890 --> 09:38.030]  They're miles ahead of us in that regard.
[09:38.190 --> 09:41.390]  I don't know why we feel so restricted that we cannot do this.
[09:41.450 --> 09:46.310]  But it strikes me really hard whenever I'm over there that there is so much that we don't have here.
[09:47.850 --> 09:48.750]  I'll help you pack.
[09:49.990 --> 09:50.970]  Okay, whatever.
[09:51.610 --> 09:52.170]  Patch you on the...
[09:52.170 --> 09:55.510]  I'll even take the plane ride over and, like, help you, you know, unpack, too.
[09:55.570 --> 09:56.030]  You know what else?
[09:56.250 --> 09:57.910]  When I was in Denmark...
[09:57.910 --> 09:59.330]  Denmark is an interesting country.
[09:59.430 --> 09:59.830]  It really is.
[09:59.970 --> 10:01.470]  They're a little caught up on rules.
[10:01.650 --> 10:02.410]  I'll give you that.
[10:02.410 --> 10:03.550]  They're a little, you know...
[10:03.550 --> 10:08.930]  But the flip side of that, I don't see any cops anyplace in that country.
[10:09.130 --> 10:10.810]  I didn't see any the whole time I was there.
[10:10.890 --> 10:11.530]  Not a single cop.
[10:11.730 --> 10:19.150]  And in the other countries that I was in, Holland and Germany, the police cars look like regular cars.
[10:19.150 --> 10:21.750]  You know, they're just like little tiny Toyotas or whatever.
[10:22.390 --> 10:23.610]  But they don't look intimidating.
[10:23.610 --> 10:27.590]  Like are, like, massive tanks that go down 6th Avenue or whatever these things are.
[10:27.850 --> 10:31.110]  It's, you know, cops here are everywhere and they're intimidating.
[10:31.110 --> 10:37.630]  And I think that puts fear into people and also puts animosity into people.
[10:37.790 --> 10:40.890]  I just don't think it's a very healthy way to deal with authority.
[10:41.050 --> 10:44.410]  And unfortunately, it's become the norm for us in this country.
[10:44.550 --> 10:47.810]  Well, that's more endemic of the population that exists in the cities.
[10:48.030 --> 10:51.030]  Mind you, that's not the case out in, you know, the rest of America.
[10:51.030 --> 10:53.110]  We'll limit this to New York City where you have these rolling tanks.
[10:53.130 --> 10:56.290]  No, I think you should look at the rest of America because I see the same thing with cops everywhere.
[10:56.490 --> 11:01.270]  I see, you know, big, intimidating, armored-looking vehicles and big, intimidating-looking people.
[11:01.470 --> 11:02.550]  Where are we talking about?
[11:02.650 --> 11:03.470]  You pick a place.
[11:03.550 --> 11:04.070]  You pick a place.
[11:04.170 --> 11:06.990]  But American cops are pretty much known for that.
[11:07.530 --> 11:09.190]  How about Wakita, Kansas?
[11:09.690 --> 11:12.310]  If there's such a place, I would imagine the same thing would hold there.
[11:12.310 --> 11:17.010]  Local Sheriff's Department where they drive a, you know, 1970-something or other and...
[11:17.010 --> 11:19.650]  Okay, well, you might be going back to Green Acres or something, but...
[11:19.650 --> 11:20.850]  Theoretical resource out there.
[11:20.850 --> 11:22.870]  Did you see any cool payphones?
[11:23.650 --> 11:24.170]  Yeah, I did.
[11:24.730 --> 11:25.210]  A few.
[11:25.470 --> 11:25.730]  Really?
[11:25.790 --> 11:26.450]  Did you take any pictures from the magazine?
[11:26.450 --> 11:27.370]  No, I don't.
[11:27.370 --> 11:28.370]  I don't take pictures.
[11:28.970 --> 11:29.670]  I really don't.
[11:29.850 --> 11:30.550]  Oh, you just...
[11:30.550 --> 11:32.410]  Everybody else is supposed to send them in from the magazine.
[11:32.410 --> 11:33.130]  You know what else they have over there, Isaac?
[11:33.210 --> 11:33.850]  They have democracy.
[11:34.010 --> 11:35.150]  That's something we should give a try to.
[11:35.590 --> 11:35.910]  Democracy?
[11:36.050 --> 11:37.750]  Yeah, you know, the thing I keep saying that we're not.
[11:38.050 --> 11:38.510]  We're not.
[11:38.610 --> 11:39.590]  We're not a democracy, I know.
[11:39.710 --> 11:42.130]  But, you know, there are democracies over there, and they actually...
[11:42.130 --> 11:43.770]  put the people in office that they vote for.
[11:44.910 --> 11:47.610]  It's something a lot of people asked me about when I was there.
[11:48.210 --> 11:49.050]  What would that be?
[11:50.470 --> 11:51.310]  Go back to sleep.
[11:52.610 --> 11:54.950]  Anyway, we have other things to talk about today.
[11:55.210 --> 11:55.790]  Many other things.
[11:55.870 --> 11:56.830]  I'd like to talk about this longer.
[11:56.990 --> 11:57.370]  I really would.
[11:57.470 --> 11:59.070]  But, no, it happens every time I go over there.
[11:59.210 --> 12:01.690]  I just feel like there's so much we could be doing here.
[12:02.630 --> 12:04.130]  It's so much cleaner over there.
[12:04.350 --> 12:05.710]  They don't destroy their land.
[12:05.950 --> 12:07.210]  There's more trees.
[12:07.350 --> 12:08.110]  There's less development.
[12:08.410 --> 12:09.590]  And they've been around a whole lot longer.
[12:09.590 --> 12:10.510]  More public transportation.
[12:10.690 --> 12:11.410]  Oh, God.
[12:11.410 --> 12:14.690]  I cannot begin to describe how good the trains work over there.
[12:14.990 --> 12:18.250]  I mean, you know, they just get you where you want to go, when you want to get there.
[12:18.850 --> 12:19.470]  They're efficient.
[12:19.630 --> 12:19.970]  They're clean.
[12:20.090 --> 12:20.670]  They're on time.
[12:21.210 --> 12:22.850]  You know, do this.
[12:22.990 --> 12:23.630]  Go over to Europe.
[12:24.150 --> 12:25.370]  Land at Newark Airport.
[12:25.470 --> 12:27.330]  And then try to take Port Authority back to New York.
[12:27.390 --> 12:30.310]  It took me three and a half hours to get to New York from Newark.
[12:30.690 --> 12:31.070]  All right?
[12:31.130 --> 12:32.690]  And then I had to ride the LIRR today.
[12:32.850 --> 12:36.290]  And that's enough to make you want to sign your citizenship away right there.
[12:36.730 --> 12:39.070]  They're dirty, slow, bad announcements.
[12:39.450 --> 12:39.930]  Get the forms.
[12:40.170 --> 12:40.610]  Go ahead.
[12:40.690 --> 12:41.170]  Get the forms.
[12:41.290 --> 12:41.830]  I'm ready to go.
[12:42.990 --> 12:43.470]  All right.
[12:44.370 --> 12:45.670]  We have all kinds of things to talk about.
[12:45.730 --> 12:51.350]  And yes, of course, we will be talking about the situation involving this station, which, of course, happened while I was away.
[12:51.510 --> 12:52.250]  And my God.
[12:53.510 --> 12:54.510]  It was time for that.
[12:54.510 --> 12:59.110]  I can't leave people alone for a single week without mayhem erupting.
[13:00.930 --> 13:02.990]  We'll get to that in just a moment.
[13:03.410 --> 13:06.290]  I want to talk about inspirational things.
[13:07.290 --> 13:07.650]  Jesus?
[13:08.330 --> 13:09.230]  No, maybe not that.
[13:09.250 --> 13:10.750]  That's another thing they don't have over there.
[13:10.910 --> 13:13.990]  You know, they don't have all this crazy religion being crammed down your throat everywhere you look.
[13:14.110 --> 13:14.670]  I don't know.
[13:14.770 --> 13:16.650]  There is a thing called the Vatican that's over there.
[13:16.710 --> 13:16.910]  Yeah.
[13:17.190 --> 13:22.830]  I wasn't over at the Vatican, but even at the Vatican, I don't think you get the kind of brainwashing you get over here.
[13:22.830 --> 13:24.570]  You know, just turn on our radio stations.
[13:24.650 --> 13:25.790]  Turn on our TV stations.
[13:26.390 --> 13:28.230]  You know, it's a lot more dignified over there.
[13:28.350 --> 13:29.570]  Then turn the station.
[13:29.810 --> 13:30.610]  Turn the channel.
[13:30.930 --> 13:31.690]  Yeah, well, you know...
[13:31.690 --> 13:39.410]  On the one hand, you're espousing the virtue of having everyone talk about anything on the air all over the Netherlands, and now you have a problem with some religious broadcasting.
[13:39.990 --> 13:46.850]  Some religious broadcasting, but there are more of the airwaves over here taken up by religious zealots.
[13:47.510 --> 13:48.390]  It's not exactly variety.
[13:48.610 --> 13:50.990]  It's the same basic thing over and over again.
[13:50.990 --> 13:53.510]  All commercials, all, you know, give us money.
[13:54.070 --> 13:55.410]  Nothing having to do with religion.
[13:55.630 --> 13:56.150]  It's a scam.
[13:57.010 --> 14:05.510]  Again, we really don't have time to get into this very thoroughly because there's just so much we can talk about, and that's why we're here because we talk about all these fascinating things.
[14:05.650 --> 14:05.910]  We need more time.
[14:05.910 --> 14:06.310]  We need more time, yeah.
[14:06.970 --> 14:07.970]  Get an hour every week.
[14:08.150 --> 14:09.890]  Did you hack anything while you were over there?
[14:10.830 --> 14:12.430]  I'd rather not get into that right now.
[14:13.590 --> 14:16.030]  But I hacked something the other day.
[14:17.010 --> 14:18.250]  You're not going to believe this.
[14:18.470 --> 14:27.230]  A year ago, we talked about the millennium, the so-called millennium taking place, and how Mackie was over here at the time.
[14:27.410 --> 14:36.890]  We managed to engineer our way into basically the front of the whole Times Square crowd, you know, of millions of people or whatever, right next to the ball that was dropping.
[14:37.130 --> 14:37.630]  The gold.
[14:37.630 --> 14:41.210]  Yeah, and this year, AutoJack is here from California.
[14:41.310 --> 14:41.830]  Say hi, AutoJack.
[14:42.190 --> 14:42.510]  Hi.
[14:42.770 --> 14:44.410]  He's caught a terrible cold in New York.
[14:44.770 --> 14:46.150]  Yeah, I'll survive.
[14:46.470 --> 14:48.930]  But would you believe we did the exact same thing all over again?
[14:49.090 --> 14:49.630]  That's right.
[14:49.770 --> 14:49.910]  Really?
[14:50.030 --> 14:56.810]  We got that special little Marriott card that you get just for staying there any night during that week.
[14:57.130 --> 15:01.510]  You know, they give you a special card that gives you access, and then you show that to a cop.
[15:01.710 --> 15:03.110]  Now, we had some difficulty.
[15:03.430 --> 15:04.870]  Maybe you could describe it a little better than me.
[15:05.110 --> 15:06.570]  We started off kind of slow.
[15:07.630 --> 15:14.170]  We ended up going to just about every entrance humanly possible while we were freezing, like every part of our body.
[15:14.410 --> 15:14.570]  Yeah.
[15:15.170 --> 15:15.730]  8th Avenue.
[15:15.890 --> 15:17.190]  We tried getting up every street.
[15:17.450 --> 15:25.170]  Yeah, I don't know the specifics of it because I'm not really from around here, but it seemed like we went to every entrance possible, and then we finally found the one we were looking for.
[15:25.270 --> 15:31.110]  And then once we found what we were looking for, the gold card that we had seemed to get us wherever the hell we wanted to go.
[15:31.350 --> 15:32.990]  It was a card that said Marriott on it?
[15:33.110 --> 15:35.450]  It just said 2001 Celebration.
[15:35.450 --> 15:36.470]  I think it was a silver card.
[15:36.470 --> 15:37.670]  But did it say Marriott on it?
[15:37.670 --> 15:37.930]  It did.
[15:38.010 --> 15:43.470]  It said Marriott, and you know, when we tried to explain it, that's when the cops always told us to turn around and go to the next street.
[15:43.630 --> 15:47.130]  But when we started just showing it, cops took a look at it and said, okay, you go through.
[15:47.270 --> 15:48.230]  Everybody else had to go back.
[15:48.290 --> 15:52.290]  This is like that scene in Blues Brothers where he flashes a cigarette pack real quick, and they just let him through.
[15:52.290 --> 15:53.250]  That's basically how it works.
[15:53.250 --> 15:57.730]  So you're telling me a corporate logo on a flashy car just gets you past the cops.
[15:57.870 --> 15:58.590]  Pretty much, yeah.
[15:59.190 --> 16:00.190]  On that day, it does.
[16:00.330 --> 16:01.970]  And you could have gone in there and done anything.
[16:02.150 --> 16:03.070]  Well, we didn't.
[16:03.190 --> 16:03.910]  No, of course not.
[16:03.930 --> 16:05.370]  All we wanted to do was see the damn ball drop.
[16:05.530 --> 16:05.930]  I watched the ball drop.
[16:05.930 --> 16:06.910]  Yeah, that's all we wanted to see.
[16:07.590 --> 16:09.890]  So eventually we got through, I think, on 41st Street.
[16:09.970 --> 16:11.930]  And then we sort of backed our way up through Broadway.
[16:12.310 --> 16:14.130]  And at one point we even had a police escort.
[16:14.270 --> 16:17.010]  Because he was convinced that we were so important that we needed an escort.
[16:17.010 --> 16:18.470]  And so we went all the way up.
[16:18.530 --> 16:22.190]  And we wound up literally in the exact same spot we were in the last time.
[16:22.550 --> 16:23.790]  Well, that was like right under the ball.
[16:23.990 --> 16:24.390]  Right under the ball.
[16:25.210 --> 16:27.270]  Half of the 2001 was obscured.
[16:27.390 --> 16:28.150]  That's how close we were.
[16:28.650 --> 16:29.810]  So I thought that was pretty cool.
[16:29.910 --> 16:31.550]  Anyway, AutoJack is here.
[16:31.910 --> 16:32.690]  AutoJack's a musician.
[16:32.690 --> 16:39.470]  And he's been writing lots of inspirational music over the past few years, I guess.
[16:39.770 --> 16:42.450]  But you've written something recently that I think really stands out.
[16:42.530 --> 16:43.270]  You want to tell us something about it?
[16:43.370 --> 16:44.230]  And we're going to play it.
[16:45.230 --> 16:48.670]  I'd rather not say much before you play it.
[16:49.150 --> 16:51.310]  I'd rather explain it after it's been played.
[16:51.310 --> 16:54.050]  Okay, but maybe we should tell people to listen to the lyrics, listen to the samples.
[16:54.350 --> 16:56.050]  Yeah, definitely listen to the lyrics.
[16:56.210 --> 16:57.730]  The lyrics are probably the most important part.
[16:58.470 --> 17:02.030]  Melody is secondary, but it's definitely there for a reason.
[17:02.330 --> 17:03.430]  Just go ahead and listen to it.
[17:03.450 --> 17:05.230]  All right, it's called Steal This Melody.
[17:05.610 --> 17:06.710]  We'll be back right after this.
[17:06.770 --> 17:08.650]  We'll be talking about all kinds of other issues.
[17:08.810 --> 17:09.530]  So stay tuned.
[17:09.690 --> 17:10.350]  This is Off the Hook.
[17:20.550 --> 17:27.350]  The number you have reached, 9-1-1, has been changed to a non-published number.
[20:55.600 --> 20:58.520]  All right, that's AutoJack or Automatic Jack, I guess.
[20:58.520 --> 20:59.720]  This is the formal name.
[21:00.300 --> 21:02.900]  With Steal This Melody, Steal This MP3.
[21:03.240 --> 21:03.540]  Uh-huh.
[21:03.920 --> 21:04.900]  What are you thinking?
[21:05.180 --> 21:05.800]  I don't know.
[21:06.700 --> 21:27.440]  I guess originally, after seeing what happened within the past year or so, like mostly during the summer with the MPAA stuff and the RAA stuff and everything going on with Napster and everything going on with 2600 and all that stuff, I started to have sort of an emotional bond with the things that were going on.
[21:27.580 --> 21:29.900]  And being an artist, I thought something should be said.
[21:29.900 --> 21:47.760]  So I ended up writing that song and I plan to write probably at least as many songs as I can about that particular subject, you know, copyright and the Digital Millennium Copyright Act as I possibly can, like within this lifetime.
[21:47.940 --> 21:49.620]  Was that Jack Valente I heard in there?
[21:49.760 --> 21:51.200]  Yeah, it was definitely Jack Valente.
[21:51.320 --> 21:52.000]  Jack Valente Samples.
[21:52.060 --> 21:52.760]  I can't believe it.
[21:52.960 --> 21:54.240]  You should know that was Jack Valente.
[21:54.340 --> 21:55.100]  It was from the deposition.
[21:55.520 --> 21:56.840]  Well, yeah, except that wasn't there.
[21:56.840 --> 21:58.440]  I heard it and it's on our site.
[21:58.580 --> 22:01.460]  But, you know, it's the kind of thing you try to get out of here.
[22:01.760 --> 22:03.120]  There's also some OTH samples in there, too.
[22:03.260 --> 22:03.480]  Really?
[22:03.680 --> 22:05.760]  So off the hook makes it to a speedy.
[22:05.760 --> 22:10.060]  I might as well give like the URL to where to get the MP3.
[22:10.200 --> 22:10.560]  Yeah, go ahead.
[22:10.820 --> 22:17.500]  It's ftp colon slash slash coffee dot WTIC dot net slash pub slash rough cut.
[22:19.400 --> 22:21.140]  You can't just put it on a web page, huh?
[22:21.940 --> 22:24.580]  It's a handful to remember, but, you know, whatever.
[22:25.960 --> 22:26.400]  Okay.
[22:26.680 --> 22:28.520]  Well, AutoJack, thanks very much for writing.
[22:28.680 --> 22:31.320]  And hopefully we'll hear a lot more interesting things.
[22:31.420 --> 22:35.400]  I understand you're currently pinning something on maybe the Pacifica crisis.
[22:35.560 --> 22:36.240]  That would be kind of cool.
[22:36.320 --> 22:37.600]  I was working on a little poem.
[22:37.600 --> 22:39.600]  It may end up turning into a song.
[22:39.800 --> 22:40.700]  Do you see these things?
[22:40.920 --> 22:44.440]  They can wind up in some good happening when you get artists involved.
[22:44.940 --> 22:47.260]  Artists always make things work out somehow.
[22:47.660 --> 22:47.780]  Yeah.
[22:48.000 --> 22:50.320]  Even in tragedy, things do work out.
[22:51.280 --> 22:54.080]  And I'm looking forward to what you do as far as that piece.
[22:54.080 --> 23:00.700]  And as promised, we're going to be going into the whole mess here at the radio station as well, of course.
[23:03.400 --> 23:07.020]  First, a sad announcement that you may have heard earlier.
[23:07.760 --> 23:14.980]  In a night, one of our own, Chad Jackson, producer of Knife Flight, passed away on New Year's Day.
[23:17.080 --> 23:23.760]  And that's all we know right now, actually, that someone who is very familiar to the people at this radio station.
[23:23.780 --> 23:26.000]  It seems like we lose so many people.
[23:26.220 --> 23:26.820]  It really does.
[23:27.660 --> 23:31.120]  Paul Wonder last year, and of course, Samori and others.
[23:31.120 --> 23:36.980]  It never fails to shock me every time I hear something like this.
[23:38.000 --> 23:45.940]  As we learn more, as far as any kind of memorial or anything like that, we'll, of course, announce it here on this radio station.
[23:46.020 --> 23:47.580]  So please keep listening.
[23:47.580 --> 23:57.380]  I was going to play this song as kind of a tribute to the people of WBAI, the many people of WBAI.
[23:57.500 --> 24:02.580]  But I feel it also works just as well as a tribute to Chad Jackson as well.
[24:03.300 --> 24:04.340]  This is Phil Oaks.
[24:29.770 --> 25:13.810]  There's no place in this world where I'll belong when I'm gone And I won't know the right from the wrong when I'm gone And you won't find me singing on this song when I'm gone So I guess I'll have to do it while I'm here ¶ And I won't feel the flowing of the time when I'm gone ¶ All the pleasures of love will not be mine when I'm gone ¶ My pen won't pour a lyric line when I'm gone ¶ So I guess
[25:13.810 --> 26:04.260]  I'll have to do it while I'm here ¶ And I won't breathe the bracing air when I'm gone And I can't even worry about my cares when I'm gone Won't be asked to do my share when I'm gone So I guess I'll have to do it while I'm here And I won't be running from the rain And I can't even suffer from the pain when I'm gone Can't say who's to praise and who's to blame when I'm gone So I guess I'll have to
[26:04.260 --> 26:24.580]  do it while I'm here Won't see the golden of the sun when I'm gone And the evenings and the mornings will be one when I'm gone Can't be singing louder than the guns while I'm gone.
[26:24.580 --> 26:29.200]  So I guess I'll have to do it while I'm here.
[26:30.460 --> 26:36.100]  All my days won't be dances of delight when I'm gone.
[26:36.640 --> 26:41.840]  And the sands will be shifting from my side when I'm gone.
[26:41.840 --> 26:47.460]  Can't add my name into the fight while I'm gone.
[26:47.460 --> 26:51.900]  So I guess I'll have to do it while I'm here.
[26:56.330 --> 27:01.910]  And I won't be laughing at the lies when I'm gone.
[27:02.370 --> 27:08.010]  And I can't question how or when or why when I'm gone.
[27:09.310 --> 27:14.070]  Can't live proud enough to die when I'm gone.
[27:14.070 --> 27:18.910]  So I guess I'll have to do it while I'm here.
[27:21.530 --> 27:27.970]  There's no place in this world where I'll belong when I'm gone.
[27:28.570 --> 27:34.190]  And I won't know the right from the wrong when I'm gone.
[27:34.190 --> 27:40.350]  And you won't find me singing on this song when I'm gone.
[27:40.530 --> 27:44.110]  So I guess I'll have to do it.
[27:44.290 --> 27:47.650]  I guess I'll have to do it.
[27:47.650 --> 27:53.390]  I guess I'll have to do it while I'm here.
[28:00.720 --> 28:02.500]  And it's Phil Oaks when I'm gone.
[28:03.400 --> 28:12.160]  And I like to dedicate that to the people here at this radio station that know that it's time to speak out.
[28:12.160 --> 28:15.400]  Because the time to speak is when we're here.
[28:16.240 --> 28:20.050]  And when we're gone, it's just too late.
[28:21.440 --> 28:27.590]  And also I'd like to dedicate that to the people who have been banished from these airwaves.
[28:28.240 --> 28:31.110]  Or from the facility at least, from the radio station.
[28:31.240 --> 28:34.700]  Bernard, Valerie, Sharon, Janice, Eileen, Serene.
[28:35.710 --> 28:37.480]  And how long is that list going to get?
[28:37.480 --> 28:38.000]  I don't know.
[28:39.050 --> 28:42.960]  And I don't know what the reasons are for people being banned.
[28:42.960 --> 28:46.880]  I think the whole thing is really getting out of control.
[28:47.110 --> 28:47.900]  Really getting insane.
[28:49.130 --> 29:00.360]  For those of you who have no idea what we're talking about, and I'm sure there are a few, but maybe not as many as before, because this is an issue that is being talked about all the time in this radio station.
[29:01.180 --> 29:04.880]  There are several sites you can go to to find out more information.
[29:05.320 --> 29:07.660]  And learn about upcoming events.
[29:08.400 --> 29:17.460]  Some of those URLs are www.wbai.net, which has all kinds of information on there.
[29:19.120 --> 29:49.360]  www.savepacifica.net www.radioforall.org That's r-a-d-i-o-r-a-l-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r The,
[29:49.360 --> 29:54.320]  quote-unquote, management of the radio station that it would be censored.
[29:54.460 --> 29:57.960]  It would be prevented from having substantial content on it.
[29:58.050 --> 30:08.700]  But instead, I found probably one of the most penetrating write-ups of the whole mess, of the whole crisis of the radio station, what we've been going through over the past couple of weeks, right there on our official website.
[30:08.740 --> 30:12.160]  And it made me proud to be able to see that, you know?
[30:12.240 --> 30:19.590]  Not to have to point people to opposition websites, but rather to say, hey, go to WBAI.org, our own home website.
[30:21.680 --> 30:25.980]  But, yesterday, all that information was wiped away.
[30:26.260 --> 30:32.800]  And now all you see, if you go to that site, is the letters WBAI and a link to the Pacifica site.
[30:34.920 --> 30:36.590]  So, that's the way it goes.
[30:38.260 --> 30:42.200]  A couple of hotlines for people that want audio information.
[30:44.680 --> 30:47.420]  212-465-7562.
[30:48.050 --> 30:48.920]  That's...
[30:48.920 --> 30:52.960]  Some of the listeners have that one...
[30:54.740 --> 30:55.590]  Organized.
[30:55.780 --> 30:59.520]  And also, 718-707-7189.
[31:00.130 --> 31:03.240]  People who want to volunteer can call an 800 number.
[31:03.680 --> 31:07.180]  800-825-0055.
[31:09.840 --> 31:10.280]  And...
[31:10.920 --> 31:14.220]  One thing I've got to say, and I'll probably get in trouble with a lot of people saying this.
[31:14.460 --> 31:16.020]  The websites have got to be improved.
[31:16.460 --> 31:18.520]  The websites have got to get better than this.
[31:19.020 --> 31:20.200]  I mean, this is...
[31:20.980 --> 31:21.820]  This is pathetic.
[31:22.940 --> 31:26.220]  There are things going on every day on the radio.
[31:26.220 --> 31:28.040]  I hear things that just make me...
[31:28.040 --> 31:29.980]  Make me insane with...
[31:31.070 --> 31:31.520]  Outrage.
[31:32.040 --> 31:34.280]  At the way listeners are being treated.
[31:34.400 --> 31:35.820]  At the way staff are being treated.
[31:35.820 --> 31:39.610]  And this kind of thing has to be noted on a daily basis.
[31:39.700 --> 31:45.610]  And a lot of these sites have the same information on them for a week.
[31:46.000 --> 31:47.240]  I know people are busy.
[31:47.360 --> 31:50.540]  I know, you know, the internet is a difficult thing to master.
[31:50.720 --> 31:54.220]  But we had 1,100 people show up at a meeting last week.
[31:54.340 --> 31:55.480]  1,100 people!
[31:55.700 --> 31:56.700]  All of them were angry.
[31:56.880 --> 32:02.700]  All of them wanted to do something about the situation and get involved somehow.
[32:02.700 --> 32:08.090]  I'm sure of those 1,100 people, a couple of them know HTML and can fix things.
[32:08.260 --> 32:10.180]  So, we need to do this.
[32:10.300 --> 32:14.110]  We need to get these sites updated on a daily, if not more, basis.
[32:15.630 --> 32:16.740]  There are enough sites.
[32:16.860 --> 32:20.360]  And also, the sites have to have some unity on them as well.
[32:20.360 --> 32:23.040]  Well, as far as linking, it's not a competing thing.
[32:24.280 --> 32:31.050]  It's something we're all involved in, as far as keeping people informed as to what's going on in the station.
[32:31.240 --> 32:36.220]  And how the situation is progressing and what kind of progress has been made.
[32:36.610 --> 32:37.500]  There's a demonstration.
[32:37.660 --> 32:39.630]  And this is something that really stuck with me, too.
[32:39.740 --> 32:43.460]  There's a big demonstration planned for Saturday outside the radio station.
[32:43.460 --> 32:45.500]  Saturday at 12 noon, 120 Wall Street.
[32:46.120 --> 32:48.280]  And I only saw reference to this on one website.
[32:49.220 --> 32:50.050]  I mean, come on.
[32:50.050 --> 32:51.960]  We can't announce this thing, you know, the day it happens.
[32:52.070 --> 32:55.860]  It's got to be announced, you know, before it happens.
[32:57.040 --> 32:59.820]  So, 120 Wall Street, Saturday, January 6th at noon.
[33:00.400 --> 33:01.520]  Yeah, I know it sucks.
[33:01.590 --> 33:02.660]  It's cold outside.
[33:02.680 --> 33:03.500]  It's snowy.
[33:03.630 --> 33:04.800]  It's unpleasant.
[33:05.070 --> 33:08.840]  But, you know, when you look at the way things happen in other parts of the world...
[33:08.840 --> 33:12.900]  And, yes, you can tie this to the way things happen in other parts of the world.
[33:13.400 --> 33:17.090]  You see that the nasty things happen when the weather is bad.
[33:17.090 --> 33:20.860]  Because people just don't want to go outside and do anything about it.
[33:22.360 --> 33:25.400]  But I think New Yorkers are pretty strong.
[33:25.400 --> 33:27.820]  And we're used to this kind of adversity.
[33:29.110 --> 33:31.050]  And I think a lot of people will be there.
[33:31.320 --> 33:33.220]  And will continue to show an interest.
[33:33.400 --> 33:36.920]  And, again, I have to stress something I stressed last week.
[33:37.520 --> 33:41.920]  And that's for the people who are throwing up their hands in despair and walking away.
[33:42.090 --> 33:44.380]  And saying, I've had it with this place.
[33:44.380 --> 33:45.440]  I'm not going to support it anymore.
[33:45.840 --> 33:48.220]  Well, you know, it's your choice.
[33:48.220 --> 33:53.520]  It's your decision if you decide not to support the radio station because of some unpleasantness on the inside.
[33:54.300 --> 34:00.070]  But by walking away, you're pretty much sealing our fate.
[34:00.380 --> 34:06.070]  If everybody walks away and we're a listener-sponsored radio station, what do you think that's going to do to the radio station?
[34:06.070 --> 34:16.260]  I heard it said on a much less pleasant manner on one of the radio shows that was on over the past few days.
[34:16.590 --> 34:21.570]  Every few hours, it seems, you'll hear the other side of this issue.
[34:23.200 --> 34:26.240]  And you'll hear some rather nasty things said.
[34:26.500 --> 34:27.940]  I'll get into that in just a second.
[34:29.880 --> 34:36.840]  But one of the questions that was asked by a listener at that point was, what happens?
[34:37.200 --> 34:43.610]  What happens when people express their outrage by not supporting the radio station?
[34:43.720 --> 34:49.760]  And the answer, the patronizing answer was, well, if you don't support the radio station, there won't be a radio station.
[34:49.840 --> 34:51.570]  Now, that happens to be true, of course.
[34:51.570 --> 34:54.960]  But the way it was said came off as a real threat.
[34:56.000 --> 35:00.090]  Basically, you know, you're just going to bury yourselves if you keep this up.
[35:00.860 --> 35:04.840]  Well, the fact is, there are different ways of expressing yourself.
[35:04.840 --> 35:14.680]  And I think people who express themselves in the streets are expressing themselves just as much value as somebody who expresses themselves at Pledge Drive.
[35:15.280 --> 35:20.340]  Because you're showing you care enough about the station to really make a sacrifice in your life.
[35:21.300 --> 35:23.780]  And that's what a lot of people have been doing.
[35:23.780 --> 35:31.400]  And, you know, I was listening to a program earlier today, Talk Back, which is our daily talk show.
[35:31.630 --> 35:38.090]  Our daily talk show hosted by somebody who doesn't want to talk about this, which is very ironic.
[35:38.320 --> 35:40.800]  But all the listeners did want to talk about this.
[35:42.120 --> 35:44.050]  And I'm in awe of our listeners.
[35:44.050 --> 35:44.980]  I really am.
[35:45.090 --> 35:51.360]  The way they constantly devote time to what's important.
[35:51.360 --> 35:52.680]  And they don't back down.
[35:53.160 --> 35:55.570]  And they've raised the most salient points.
[35:55.740 --> 36:01.050]  The ways I cannot possibly express the issues.
[36:01.340 --> 36:03.540]  They touched upon all different angles of it.
[36:03.630 --> 36:08.340]  And in a very educated, respectful way.
[36:09.020 --> 36:13.130]  I think that's something that we should be proud of.
[36:13.220 --> 36:16.000]  The fact that our listeners care enough to be there for us.
[36:16.050 --> 36:17.440]  And right now, this is our time of crisis.
[36:17.700 --> 36:19.630]  We do need you to be there for us.
[36:20.300 --> 36:22.760]  And I'm really happy that they are there.
[36:25.040 --> 36:28.720]  One thing I also feel compelled to say at this point...
[36:28.720 --> 36:29.550]  I was listening to a...
[36:30.040 --> 36:31.860]  I'm listening to the radio station all the time now.
[36:31.880 --> 36:35.630]  I don't know if our listenership has gone through the roof as a result of this crisis.
[36:36.320 --> 36:40.070]  But I know that I'm listening all the time because I want to hear the latest developments.
[36:40.090 --> 36:43.240]  And I want to hear how other people are dealing with this.
[36:44.840 --> 36:48.090]  And one thing that I found extremely disturbing...
[36:48.090 --> 36:50.480]  It's not always pleasant listening, that's for sure.
[36:50.570 --> 37:00.380]  But one thing I found extremely disturbing was when I was listening on Saturday to Grandpa Al Lewis, who does a weekly show every Saturday afternoon on this radio station.
[37:01.130 --> 37:06.050]  And he comes up with some really remarkable perspectives on things.
[37:06.780 --> 37:14.090]  And he was addressing the issues, many of the same issues that I'm addressing right now, as many of the producers here at this radio station feel compelled to do.
[37:15.480 --> 37:33.500]  And in the middle of it, and I thought this in itself was rather outrageous, but in the middle of him discussing his feelings about this, one of the management people came into the studio to correct him, to correct his view, to offer the truth.
[37:35.640 --> 37:42.000]  And he basically stood up for his rights and said, I didn't invite you on the air, this is my airtime.
[37:43.180 --> 37:48.800]  And you have plenty of opportunity to give your side of the story.
[37:48.880 --> 37:52.920]  In fact, this person had just been on right before his radio program.
[37:53.050 --> 37:58.550]  So basically, he said, no, I'm going to continue speaking my mind.
[37:59.160 --> 38:00.460]  And I applauded that.
[38:01.380 --> 38:09.200]  Two days later, I heard that described on these same airwaves by management as racism.
[38:09.960 --> 38:10.550]  Racism.
[38:12.400 --> 38:17.200]  Because the person who was part of management was black and he was white.
[38:17.460 --> 38:22.160]  That became a racist act for him saying, no, I'm not going to let you in on my airtime.
[38:23.540 --> 38:29.480]  That is unbelievable to me, and that is something we have to stand up against in the strongest terms.
[38:29.660 --> 38:41.240]  Because accusing someone like Al Lewis of racism, accusing any BAI producer of racism, goes against everything that this place stands for, that any decent radio producer stands for.
[38:43.360 --> 38:48.840]  And I think it's something that most of us are mature enough to know how to handle.
[38:48.980 --> 38:55.360]  When you criticize other programming on the radio station, there are ways of doing it without resorting to name calling.
[38:55.360 --> 38:58.820]  I like to keep the personalities out of this.
[38:59.020 --> 39:02.630]  I'm deliberately not mentioning names because I don't feel that's the issue.
[39:02.760 --> 39:06.050]  I think the issue is what's happening.
[39:06.050 --> 39:07.090]  It's the process.
[39:07.800 --> 39:09.460]  It's the lack of communication.
[39:10.000 --> 39:12.200]  And that's something that needs to be addressed.
[39:12.200 --> 39:21.240]  It's got nothing to do with, you know, how somebody acts, how somebody looks, you know, how somebody dresses, the color of someone's skin.
[39:21.380 --> 39:22.630]  That's got nothing to do with it.
[39:22.660 --> 39:27.420]  And anybody who brings up those issues is doing a tremendous disservice to all of us.
[39:28.980 --> 39:29.520]  All right.
[39:30.760 --> 39:31.860]  There's a lot I can say.
[39:32.160 --> 39:34.300]  I can go on for hours and hours and hours about this.
[39:35.000 --> 39:37.070]  But the people I really want to hear from are the listeners.
[39:37.380 --> 39:43.380]  And I think they're the ones with the most to say about this and the most to gain or lose.
[39:43.620 --> 39:47.020]  So, again, our phone lines are open, 212-209-2900.
[39:47.820 --> 39:57.200]  And since the daily talk show doesn't want to talk about this issue, it pretty much mandates that the rest of our programs have to.
[39:58.400 --> 40:05.020]  It's sad that the general talk show topic can never be the issues about WBAI.
[40:05.300 --> 40:09.420]  But it's obviously what the listeners want to talk about.
[40:09.420 --> 40:13.340]  So we can talk about it.
[40:13.500 --> 40:19.240]  And if people want to talk about other things relating to Off the Hook, absolutely give us a call, 212-209-2900.
[40:19.300 --> 40:20.240]  Oh, boy, look at those lights.
[40:21.440 --> 40:22.780]  Okay, let's start over here.
[40:23.220 --> 40:23.560]  Good evening.
[40:23.640 --> 40:24.100]  You're on the air.
[40:25.380 --> 40:26.380]  Yes, hi, Emmanuel.
[40:26.700 --> 40:27.100]  How are you doing?
[40:27.720 --> 40:31.080]  You know, I feel that, you know, WBAI is going to be sold sooner or later.
[40:31.240 --> 40:33.040]  This is heading right down the road.
[40:33.960 --> 40:35.000]  It's heading right sooner or later.
[40:35.140 --> 40:37.120]  They're just packing up and getting ready, man.
[40:37.760 --> 40:39.500]  I've seen this coming a few years ago.
[40:40.000 --> 40:43.660]  You know, there's only three shows I like on the station anyway, but...
[40:43.660 --> 40:44.700]  Oh, is this one of them?
[40:45.000 --> 40:45.860]  Yeah, it is.
[40:46.380 --> 40:48.060]  The Computer Show and Gary Know.
[40:49.140 --> 40:50.100]  Yeah, those are...
[40:50.100 --> 40:51.040]  I like those shows, too.
[40:51.460 --> 41:00.000]  Yeah, but, you know, with Amy's interview with Clinton, that stepped on a lot of toes.
[41:00.520 --> 41:01.560]  And a lot of other...
[41:01.560 --> 41:04.380]  Yeah, but you see, that's what we're here for, to step on toes, you know?
[41:04.520 --> 41:06.200]  And we stepped on Clinton's toes?
[41:06.400 --> 41:07.400]  Boy, that's...
[41:07.400 --> 41:08.780]  I consider that an accomplishment.
[41:09.180 --> 41:09.300]  Yeah.
[41:09.860 --> 41:13.560]  Well, you know, Pacifica, you know, they're going to end up selling BAI.
[41:13.780 --> 41:14.720]  That's the way I feel.
[41:14.900 --> 41:18.840]  Well, you know, if you feel that way, there really is nothing to fight for.
[41:19.180 --> 41:22.220]  You have to believe that you can make a change.
[41:22.220 --> 41:24.840]  You can make a difference by doing something.
[41:26.200 --> 41:27.120]  Don't you feel that way?
[41:28.020 --> 41:30.140]  I mean, I don't know.
[41:30.260 --> 41:33.240]  I mean, it is so David and Goliath now.
[41:33.240 --> 41:38.120]  Yeah, I mean, BAI is worth at least $500 million, because it's right in the middle of the Dow.
[41:38.260 --> 41:40.020]  Well, I heard $200 million, but it doesn't really matter.
[41:40.020 --> 41:42.920]  Once you get over a million, it's pretty much beyond anything I can conceive of.
[41:43.220 --> 41:50.780]  Yeah, I mean, it's so obvious to me that they're going to sell it, because, I mean, they're just clamping in inch by inch, you know?
[41:52.110 --> 41:53.140]  Well, I don't know.
[41:53.520 --> 41:55.840]  You know, I look at a lot of things that happen in Eastern Europe.
[41:55.840 --> 42:05.180]  I just spent some time over in a former communist regime, and a lot of people said that that was never going to stop, that that was always going to be there.
[42:05.400 --> 42:07.560]  A lot of people said the wall would never come down.
[42:07.680 --> 42:11.280]  People said Germany would never be united, that the Iron Curtain would always be there.
[42:12.060 --> 42:13.300]  And look what toppled it.
[42:13.340 --> 42:14.160]  It wasn't Reagan.
[42:14.220 --> 42:16.200]  It wasn't the Cold War.
[42:16.460 --> 42:18.020]  It wasn't the arms race.
[42:18.020 --> 42:19.120]  It was the people.
[42:19.360 --> 42:20.860]  It was people in the streets.
[42:21.140 --> 42:23.700]  They can't stand up against that.
[42:24.160 --> 42:24.600]  Ever.
[42:24.860 --> 42:25.300]  Anywhere.
[42:25.300 --> 42:30.360]  I'm for BAI, but, you know, the situation with the station, you know, it's just heading nowhere.
[42:30.520 --> 42:42.400]  I mean, the only thing I see that's probably still out there is for some type of voice, like for the people, for the Internet and public access TV.
[42:42.720 --> 42:44.840]  Well, you know, I've gotten a lot of mail about that, actually.
[42:44.980 --> 42:53.760]  I've gotten people writing in saying that they want to continue BAI-type programs if the station goes off the air on the Internet.
[42:53.760 --> 42:55.200]  That's all fine and good.
[42:55.300 --> 42:59.900]  But that's really a totally different issue.
[43:00.180 --> 43:01.960]  The Internet is a different medium.
[43:01.960 --> 43:04.780]  It's only available to certain people right now.
[43:04.940 --> 43:18.480]  It will be the future someday, but by no means should you give up something that you have now and move over to that, something that has a much smaller audience, a much more narrower audience.
[43:19.200 --> 43:21.960]  Stand up for what you have now and preserve that.
[43:23.780 --> 43:24.240]  All right.
[43:24.300 --> 43:24.780]  Thanks for calling.
[43:26.340 --> 43:27.760]  Let's move on to another phone call.
[43:27.760 --> 43:28.480]  Let's go over here.
[43:28.820 --> 43:29.080]  Good evening.
[43:29.220 --> 43:29.600]  You're on the air.
[43:30.440 --> 43:31.420]  Oh, lucky me.
[43:33.260 --> 43:34.480]  Oh, hi, Emmanuel.
[43:35.240 --> 43:42.060]  I was in Europe in the summer, too, and there are a lot of good things going on there, so I was a little sorry that they didn't know what you meant.
[43:42.220 --> 43:44.100]  You weren't saying this country isn't good.
[43:44.100 --> 43:48.040]  You just wish we could have some of the good things that are elsewhere.
[43:48.040 --> 43:53.380]  Yeah, I think when you stop looking for improvements, that's when you really start to fall apart.
[43:53.440 --> 43:55.440]  And you wouldn't come back if we didn't love it here.
[43:55.440 --> 43:59.660]  We were just talking about missing, you know, the other goodies that we wish we could have here.
[43:59.660 --> 44:11.800]  But to get back to what you were saying about today, one of the things I objected to was the sexism of claiming that four ladies and a baby were no threat.
[44:12.320 --> 44:24.400]  And I think when you have Trojan horses and the things spilling out of them, which, by the way, I think the Trojan horse's belly was cut open and has been bleeding for at least five years, the way the caller before you said.
[44:24.400 --> 44:27.660]  Because a lot of us could tell that the tightening...
[44:27.660 --> 44:38.140]  You're making a lot of references here going well over people's heads, but let's try and stick to the actual topic of the station, not the personalities.
[44:38.140 --> 44:50.240]  I just wanted you to know that the darn show is called Talkback, so I found that kind of funny that there is no Talkback on Talkback unless it's approved by the...
[44:50.240 --> 45:02.360]  By the way, I did call management, and I was treated politely, and I said that I thought for a four-day program, we should have someone more lively and less stilted than the person she chose.
[45:02.360 --> 45:10.780]  And she said she would, by the way, she said that some programmer would be there, some program director would be there soon, very shortly.
[45:11.300 --> 45:13.180]  So isn't that something to look forward to?
[45:13.220 --> 45:20.700]  Yeah, and to give the guy credit, I don't know his name, he's not a BAI person, or at least he's only a BAI person for the last few days.
[45:22.740 --> 45:26.260]  He did allow people to speak about this, but they had to fight to do it.
[45:26.440 --> 45:30.320]  Yeah, exactly, and I was pleased that that did happen, you're correct.
[45:31.760 --> 45:35.060]  But I just... well, anyway, I won't go into that, that's not important.
[45:35.700 --> 45:50.040]  I just think you're right, that you should try to have hope, but I'm afraid I think the way the other fellow did, that all the signs of having things changed already, I have seen them happening a long time, and I'm not saying it's going to be dead forever,
[45:50.180 --> 45:53.340]  but I just think we're going to go through some tight times.
[45:53.460 --> 45:56.480]  Well, that's why we need you, and that's why we need people there on Saturday.
[45:56.820 --> 45:58.300]  Well, I'll probably be there, okay?
[45:58.300 --> 45:58.560]  Great.
[45:58.800 --> 45:59.640]  All right, we'll see you there.
[45:59.760 --> 46:00.100]  Bye-bye.
[46:01.210 --> 46:02.640]  212-209-2900.
[46:03.160 --> 46:04.260]  Good evening, you're on the air.
[46:05.380 --> 46:06.020]  Hey, good evening.
[46:06.180 --> 46:06.540]  How you doing?
[46:06.800 --> 46:10.220]  I sort of have a different take on the Al Lewis situation.
[46:10.560 --> 46:10.740]  Okay.
[46:11.200 --> 46:15.680]  Not that I necessarily think he did the wrong thing, but I don't really think it was necessary.
[46:16.780 --> 46:22.320]  Frankly, when I was listening to it, if he hadn't said a word, I certainly wouldn't have known she was there.
[46:22.820 --> 46:25.500]  It wasn't as if she interrupted him verbally on the air.
[46:25.940 --> 46:30.080]  I think what he was trying to do was call attention to her in a way that was really unnecessary.
[46:30.080 --> 46:31.080]  Maybe so.
[46:31.220 --> 46:32.180]  You might be right about that.
[46:32.300 --> 46:44.200]  But then again, when you're doing a radio program and somebody walks in, especially if it's somebody who is that far above you in position, it's really distracting.
[46:44.680 --> 46:50.040]  And I think if he hadn't called attention to it, we would have heard him falter in some way and not know why.
[46:50.640 --> 46:55.940]  Possibly, but if you were listening on afterwards, I mean, those doors open and close a good five or ten times.
[46:56.040 --> 46:57.260]  I don't know who was coming in and out.
[46:57.380 --> 46:59.720]  I don't know if it was his wife or what it was.
[46:59.720 --> 47:03.580]  But, I mean, if anything was distracting, I mean, it just kept going on.
[47:03.820 --> 47:05.560]  Well, it's an unwritten rule.
[47:05.620 --> 47:08.100]  You don't walk in on someone's program unless you're invited.
[47:08.320 --> 47:08.620]  Absolutely.
[47:09.940 --> 47:19.920]  And again, I think part of me felt like if he really wanted the ends to be done, he would have found a better way to do it.
[47:20.160 --> 47:23.760]  If his main point was to get her out of the studio, there were better ways to do it.
[47:23.800 --> 47:28.620]  If his main point was to call attention to it, then how can I argue against that?
[47:28.620 --> 47:35.520]  You see, the thing is, though, here's one programmer voicing his opinion, and all of a sudden, he's the subject.
[47:35.760 --> 47:39.400]  The subject really should be what's happened at the station with the takeover.
[47:40.060 --> 47:44.720]  Isn't that the real issue rather than the way one programmer dealt with speaking his mind?
[47:45.980 --> 47:48.000]  As for the real issue overall, oh, absolutely.
[47:48.320 --> 47:51.220]  I only brought it up just because you brought it up.
[47:51.280 --> 47:51.440]  Right.
[47:51.560 --> 48:06.720]  I thought, I'm sort of in the middle of this, and I'm not really taking sides at this point, because I can see whether, substantively, I'm not sure where I stand, and principally, I can see both sides having valid points.
[48:07.500 --> 48:17.300]  And unfortunately, you know, regardless of how anarchistic we want to be, this is the sort of society that we live in in terms of how structure occurs.
[48:17.300 --> 48:27.320]  Well, I mean, I don't argue with the premise that change needs to happen, change always needs to happen, and any radio station has personnel changes.
[48:27.320 --> 48:29.680]  It just is a natural occurrence.
[48:29.920 --> 48:33.540]  But it's the method that took place this time.
[48:33.540 --> 48:35.780]  It's the process that happened that is scary.
[48:36.060 --> 48:42.240]  Locks being changed in the middle of the night, people coming in from different cities, and bringing in new people.
[48:42.240 --> 48:48.520]  I mean, yeah, that happens all the time in commercial radio, but, you know, this isn't commercial radio, this isn't corporate radio, this is community radio.
[48:48.820 --> 48:50.700]  Our sponsors are you, the listeners.
[48:51.300 --> 49:05.820]  And to just step over your heads like this, and then to treat you in a condescending manner when you call to complain about it, and, you know, over the air, it's just something that a lot of our people are very upset at, and we feel kind of powerless about it.
[49:06.220 --> 49:08.680]  Well, it's going to be interesting to see what transpires.
[49:08.880 --> 49:09.380]  Sure will be.
[49:09.380 --> 49:11.040]  Very quickly, on your U.S.
[49:11.140 --> 49:14.660]  versus other countries, I'm sort of in the middle on that, too.
[49:14.820 --> 49:20.980]  I think one of the problems with this country is that we are not very comfortable with the idea of true individual liberty.
[49:21.200 --> 49:26.480]  So we like to talk a good game, but we really don't know how to handle that kind of freedom.
[49:26.960 --> 49:30.020]  And that's why you see a lot of the irresponsibility that you have.
[49:30.660 --> 49:31.060]  Yeah.
[49:31.360 --> 49:35.840]  You know, there's so much left to trust over in foreign countries.
[49:35.840 --> 49:41.920]  For instance, when you go on the subway system, you know, I did not pass through a single turnstile on the subway over there.
[49:42.380 --> 49:46.820]  Basically, you're responsible to cancel your own ticket on the little machine they have on the platform.
[49:47.340 --> 49:51.940]  And, you know, if you actually run into a ticket inspector at some point, you don't have that, you get fined.
[49:52.020 --> 49:53.500]  But people are responsible.
[49:53.740 --> 49:56.520]  You don't have to have somebody watching over you every step of the way.
[49:57.520 --> 50:01.060]  Kids can drink at whatever age they feel responsible for doing this.
[50:01.720 --> 50:01.980]  And they...
[50:01.980 --> 50:02.600]  I don't agree with that.
[50:02.780 --> 50:05.560]  Yeah, well, they take a certain degree of responsibility.
[50:05.560 --> 50:11.020]  And I believe you see a lot less as far as alcohol-related incidents over there.
[50:11.060 --> 50:14.180]  I might be wrong about that, but I think they do have less of a problem.
[50:14.340 --> 50:21.600]  You just see less in the way of authoritarian authorities looking over you all the time.
[50:21.760 --> 50:23.960]  You know, I was in the subway today and I saw a threat.
[50:24.380 --> 50:28.940]  But there's this MTA ad that warns you about insurance fraud.
[50:29.140 --> 50:31.820]  They say, if you lie about your back hurting...
[50:31.820 --> 50:34.420]  I guess a lot of people are claiming the subways injured them or something.
[50:34.580 --> 50:37.780]  If you lie about your back hurting, it'll hurt a lot more after you go to prison.
[50:38.640 --> 50:41.080]  They're threatening people with violence in the ads now.
[50:41.600 --> 50:42.780]  It's just... it's unbelievable.
[50:43.220 --> 50:44.560]  Anyway, I'm going to move on to some more calls.
[50:45.040 --> 50:45.880]  Yeah, okay, go ahead.
[50:46.000 --> 50:46.200]  Thanks.
[50:47.480 --> 50:48.760]  212-209-2900.
[50:49.580 --> 50:50.700]  Good evening, you're on the air.
[50:51.820 --> 50:52.480]  Yeah, hi.
[50:52.480 --> 50:54.560]  I've just been listening to the program.
[50:54.620 --> 50:55.140]  Speak up, please.
[50:55.620 --> 50:56.820]  Sure, let me lower this tape.
[50:57.060 --> 50:57.300]  Okay.
[51:03.230 --> 51:03.750]  You there?
[51:04.290 --> 51:05.890]  Yeah, I've been listening to the program.
[51:06.130 --> 51:14.790]  You know, and I was just thinking, you know, in other countries, you know, you hear these stories about journalists getting killed.
[51:14.790 --> 51:19.850]  And even here, journalists are arrested at times.
[51:20.290 --> 51:22.750]  They get beaten by the police.
[51:23.490 --> 51:27.530]  The radio stations are taken over in other countries.
[51:27.930 --> 51:29.670]  The journalists are just outright killed.
[51:29.850 --> 51:33.350]  There was a murder of a journalist several years ago.
[51:34.070 --> 51:35.030]  Memo de Dios.
[51:35.810 --> 51:53.950]  You know, it's a courageous act, you know, that requires a lot of tenacity, you know, in order to endure all of the, you know, obstacles.
[51:54.130 --> 52:06.690]  And it takes a tremendous amount of courage in order to take positions that are not necessarily very popular or what's considered the mainstream or the line, you know.
[52:06.690 --> 52:16.430]  And, you know, the typical, you know, what happened in Yugoslavia, I mean, the first thing they did was take over the radio station at gunpoint.
[52:16.570 --> 52:16.830]  Absolutely.
[52:17.270 --> 52:17.570]  Okay.
[52:18.110 --> 52:26.290]  So, you know, I mean, you know, the members of the station should really be pulling together.
[52:27.790 --> 52:29.210]  I think many of us are.
[52:29.450 --> 52:33.430]  I feel a sense of community here I have not felt in quite some time.
[52:33.430 --> 52:41.070]  It's, you know, a lot of people are rather scared and unsure what's going to happen next, but I do feel a sense of community here.
[52:41.390 --> 52:48.310]  Also a sense of sadness, but something that I think will be bolstered quite a bit by what the listeners do.
[52:48.530 --> 52:57.030]  You know, and I mean, you know, even those, you know, well, you know, there's a certain measure of fractionalism that's taken place in the station.
[52:57.530 --> 53:21.870]  I mean, you know, it's a, you know, if you examine the efforts and, you know, and many of the stories of people, you know, of journalists who go out there, the efforts that they put in to go after these stories, it's a story in itself.
[53:23.710 --> 53:43.890]  And, you know, as I said, it requires a tremendous amount of courage to do it, you know, to do that, because, you know, I mean, just taking a position, voicing it, voicing a position, you know, publicly, you know, it can be a dangerous act.
[53:43.890 --> 53:44.610]  Absolutely.
[53:45.030 --> 53:55.470]  And it's, it's something that it's easy to say, that you'll do, but when the time actually comes, how many people actually will step forward.
[53:55.830 --> 54:02.530]  I've noticed this throughout my life that when push comes to shove, a lot of people think of what's safest.
[54:02.830 --> 54:09.450]  And, you know, I don't really fault them for this, because everyone has their own life to lead, everyone has their own value system.
[54:10.090 --> 54:14.330]  But it's something that we should not be surprised at, something we should be wary of.
[54:14.550 --> 54:14.670]  Yeah.
[54:14.810 --> 54:35.630]  I mean, you know, so in, in, you know, you know, in that vein, you know, it, it boggles, it's, it's, it's, uh, really eludes me, the whole notion of, of, of the fractionalism, you know, uh, that, that's occurred at, you know, to some extent that's occurred at the station.
[54:35.950 --> 54:53.870]  Some of the, some, you know, and it's just, uh, you know, it's, it's, it's frustrating to, as, as, as a listener, you know, it's, it's frustrating to, to, to hear this, this, this type of dialogue, uh, you know, make, making, you know, the station, uh,
[54:54.150 --> 55:08.230]  you know, the subject of so many programs, you know, making this the issue, when there's so many other things that are going on, you know, out there now, right?
[55:08.450 --> 55:09.550]  Absolutely, absolutely.
[55:10.230 --> 55:24.990]  I mean, you know, we have a federal seat of power, you know, the federal seat of power, the state and the city are now all members of the same party, speaking with one voice.
[55:27.530 --> 55:30.070]  Yeah, and there are global issues as well.
[55:30.210 --> 55:33.190]  There's all kinds of things that I know are important.
[55:33.430 --> 55:49.990]  The thing, though, is that the amount of attention this is getting, the way listeners are responding to this, tells you just how valuable a resource this place is seen as being, and how important it is to see all those other issues through this radio station,
[55:49.990 --> 55:53.370]  and what a loss it would be if we were no longer able to do this.
[55:53.530 --> 56:01.210]  And I think that's the thing that actually can help boost our spirits a bit, is realizing the value of this place.
[56:01.410 --> 56:13.550]  Like I said before, I was knocked away just listening to the radio earlier, and over the past few days, and hearing just how many different people are calling in, and hearing about all the people who are showing up for meetings and organizing.
[56:13.990 --> 56:20.390]  I mean, I think if we ever needed a boost in morale, this is the kind of thing that can do it, where we realize how much we mean to people.
[56:20.590 --> 56:23.770]  Listen, I want to move on to some more phone calls in the brief time we have left.
[56:24.070 --> 56:29.130]  Also, I want to tell people an interesting story that I've been following over the past few days.
[56:29.690 --> 56:31.130]  This is out of the Czech Republic.
[56:31.270 --> 56:39.170]  Czech political leaders have met to try and solve the strike-hit state public television service, which is being crippled by protesting journalists.
[56:39.270 --> 56:40.190]  Sounds kind of familiar, doesn't it?
[56:40.190 --> 56:51.850]  Social Democratic Prime Minister Milos Zeman, Parliamentary Speaker Václav Klaus of the opposition Civic Democratic Party, and leaders of the two smaller opposition parties represented in Parliament have been discussing a plan of action.
[56:52.310 --> 56:57.870]  They want to end the standoff between Czech television's new director and the rebellious staff.
[56:58.570 --> 57:13.150]  It seems that the new director, who was implemented overnight, was suspected of being a politically installed, politically motivated person, too close to the government.
[57:14.910 --> 57:16.330]  And they want him to resign.
[57:19.390 --> 57:20.610]  And that continues.
[57:21.430 --> 57:24.730]  I was following this when I was in Europe, and I was amazed by the parallels.
[57:25.090 --> 57:29.750]  The protest, which started in a television station's newsroom, has already spread to other departments.
[57:29.750 --> 57:35.610]  The rebels claim to have two-thirds of the 3,000 employees of the station on their side.
[57:35.730 --> 57:37.970]  Rebels in their radio station, or TV station, rather.
[57:38.570 --> 57:39.870]  But this is on CNN now.
[57:39.950 --> 57:41.070]  This is on the Associated Press.
[57:41.170 --> 57:42.210]  People are talking about this.
[57:42.310 --> 57:43.870]  Just a bunch of people on a TV station, huh?
[57:43.910 --> 57:45.110]  Well, it means a lot to people.
[57:45.550 --> 57:48.810]  It means a lot to people all over the place, all over the world.
[57:49.690 --> 57:51.530]  Let's see if we can squeeze in a couple more listeners.
[57:52.010 --> 57:52.470]  Good evening.
[57:52.570 --> 57:52.930]  You're on the air.
[57:54.090 --> 58:06.010]  You know, at this point, it doesn't really look like that there's going to be a resolution any time soon between the Pacifica Utrese and Bernard et al.
[58:08.950 --> 58:16.310]  And in the absence of this, it's just...
[58:16.310 --> 58:19.470]  Oh, let me just go back to the Al Lewis thing.
[58:19.650 --> 58:21.190]  Make it fast, okay, because we're running out of time.
[58:21.190 --> 58:21.530]  All right.
[58:21.590 --> 58:23.570]  For me, this epitomizes the whole thing.
[58:23.670 --> 58:25.750]  I heard that show, okay?
[58:26.230 --> 58:39.790]  And first of all, I was told by a staff member that it is against the bylaws of BAI for anyone but an engineer to go into a room when this is going on.
[58:41.090 --> 58:41.610]  Possible.
[58:41.750 --> 58:43.090]  I can't verify that.
[58:43.330 --> 58:43.610]  Okay.
[58:43.870 --> 58:53.510]  At any rate, anyone hearing that tape, I think, who had any sensitivity at all, she just came in there.
[58:53.650 --> 58:55.270]  There was obvious malice.
[58:56.910 --> 59:01.390]  You know, someone else mentioned, well, what difference did it make that she was in the room?
[59:02.770 --> 59:05.150]  The vibes were absolutely awful.
[59:05.610 --> 59:08.690]  He asked her... he was livid, and rightly so.
[59:08.970 --> 59:12.690]  He asked her very politely about ten times to leave.
[59:12.850 --> 59:13.130]  Mm-hmm.
[59:13.850 --> 59:19.430]  And she just stood there defiantly, saying stupid childish things.
[59:19.570 --> 59:24.190]  Like, it reminded me of something that went on in the fifth grade, sixth grade.
[59:24.190 --> 59:24.890]  Yes, I will.
[59:24.990 --> 59:25.690]  No, I won't.
[59:25.890 --> 59:29.770]  You know, she's just there like, well, I want the people...
[59:29.770 --> 59:31.150]  You're going to tell your side.
[59:31.310 --> 59:31.850]  I want the...
[59:31.850 --> 59:34.230]  But, you know, the tone, the tone of it.
[59:34.590 --> 59:40.110]  I think there's ample opportunity for all sides to be told without people stepping on each other.
[59:40.150 --> 59:40.550]  Yes, please.
[59:40.630 --> 59:47.530]  And I think that's the most important thing, is for people to respect others when they're on, when they're talking about various things.
[59:47.690 --> 59:50.310]  And, you know, for the most part, I think that's what's been happening.
[59:50.970 --> 59:54.810]  Listen, we're really running short on time, so I want to try to get in one more call.
[59:54.890 --> 59:57.530]  By the way, if a tape does exist of that, I'd sure like to know about it.
[59:57.830 --> 01:00:00.910]  It would be a nice thing to put up on one of these sites so that people can hear for themselves.
[01:00:02.050 --> 01:00:02.590]  Oh, boy.
[01:00:02.630 --> 01:00:03.130]  Who do I pick?
[01:00:03.170 --> 01:00:04.130]  Who's the lucky person?
[01:00:04.750 --> 01:00:04.890]  Four.
[01:00:05.070 --> 01:00:05.390]  Four?
[01:00:05.510 --> 01:00:05.710]  Okay.
[01:00:06.050 --> 01:00:06.670]  Four it is.
[01:00:07.190 --> 01:00:07.710]  Good evening.
[01:00:07.830 --> 01:00:08.210]  You're on the air.
[01:00:09.930 --> 01:00:10.610]  Speak up, please.
[01:00:10.770 --> 01:00:11.330]  Sorry about that.
[01:00:11.550 --> 01:00:15.190]  Hey, have you heard anything about, like, who's behind all of this?
[01:00:15.330 --> 01:00:22.370]  Eutrice was saying on her, you know, a couple of times that there's somebody really behind who's really the fault of all of this.
[01:00:22.430 --> 01:00:23.750]  Have you heard anything about that?
[01:00:23.970 --> 01:00:24.350]  No.
[01:00:24.510 --> 01:00:28.230]  You mean some mystery person that's orchestrating the whole thing?
[01:00:28.330 --> 01:00:28.750]  Exactly.
[01:00:28.950 --> 01:00:34.450]  And you know who they're saying on the Internet that that person is Amy Goodman by process of elimination?
[01:00:35.270 --> 01:00:35.650]  I see.
[01:00:35.710 --> 01:00:38.370]  So Amy Goodman is sitting back someplace calculating all this.
[01:00:38.390 --> 01:00:40.150]  This is according to Eutrice.
[01:00:40.990 --> 01:00:45.430]  I mean, she was totally blaming this whole thing on one person.
[01:00:45.610 --> 01:00:46.550]  I would have guessed George W.
[01:00:46.690 --> 01:00:47.610]  Bush, but...
[01:00:47.610 --> 01:00:48.310]  Yeah, exactly.
[01:00:48.430 --> 01:00:49.110]  They're in it together.
[01:00:49.330 --> 01:00:49.750]  All right.
[01:00:49.750 --> 01:00:51.450]  That music means our time is out.
[01:00:51.510 --> 01:00:52.090]  Okay, thanks a lot.
[01:00:52.210 --> 01:00:52.490]  All right.
[01:00:52.750 --> 01:00:54.150]  I want to thank everybody for calling in.
[01:00:54.230 --> 01:01:05.030]  Sorry for everybody we couldn't get to, but you know, a lot of producers are going to be talking about this over the next, well, millennium, I guess, however long it takes.
[01:01:05.310 --> 01:01:13.250]  So I hope people stay strong and keep voicing their opinion, because that's what this place is all about, and I'm grateful to be part of it.
[01:01:14.330 --> 01:01:20.270]  Also, on a personal note, if anybody knows where 2001 A Space Odyssey is playing on a big screen, let me know.
[01:01:21.450 --> 01:01:23.930]  It's just an important thing, the year 2001, right?
[01:01:24.610 --> 01:01:25.990]  Emanuel at 2600.com.
[01:01:26.110 --> 01:01:26.590]  Have a good night.
[01:02:14.150 --> 01:02:20.110]  We interrupt this substandard broadcast with important news from the Atlantica Radio Empire.
[01:02:20.110 --> 01:02:20.150]  And so, that was a good night.
[01:02:20.150 --> 01:02:20.190]  This episode has been a great night.
[01:02:20.190 --> 01:02:20.290]  May I may beconcraft.
[01:02:20.330 --> 01:02:20.350]  ...
[01:02:20.350 --> 01:02:20.430]  Set a little boy to the antica radio game.
[01:02:20.910 --> 01:02:21.230]  And so, when you're looking for all these items at the base because...
[01:02:21.230 --> 01:02:21.270]  ...