[00:11.710 --> 00:18.770]  Once again, the Atlantic Radio Empire is unable to prevent being overridden with a message from Psychotica.
[00:19.790 --> 00:23.330]  The Psychotica Radio Empire offers true democracy.
[00:23.590 --> 00:25.090]  Elections are held regularly.
[00:25.290 --> 00:25.930]  How nice.
[00:26.090 --> 00:27.450]  Today is election day.
[00:27.590 --> 00:28.970]  Oh good, we get to vote?
[00:29.130 --> 00:30.290]  Thank you, Psychotica.
[00:30.390 --> 00:31.490]  What are we voting for?
[00:31.810 --> 00:34.550]  Psychotica offers a choice of morning show formats.
[00:34.650 --> 00:36.330]  Hmm, I get to vote for morning show formats.
[00:37.250 --> 00:39.250]  Psychotica offers true democracy.
[00:39.690 --> 00:42.250]  What are the morning show formats I may choose from?
[00:42.730 --> 00:43.730]  Ukulele Universe.
[00:44.010 --> 00:44.490]  What's that?
[00:44.690 --> 00:46.930]  A show for people who love ukuleles.
[00:47.050 --> 00:48.750]  People who collect ukuleles.
[00:48.890 --> 00:50.810]  Or are even in the ukulele business.
[00:51.270 --> 00:55.470]  And there are regular phone calls from people who have actually been to Hawaii.
[00:55.790 --> 01:00.190]  I guess I'll vote for Ukulele Universe then, without even knowing the other choice.
[01:00.370 --> 01:03.430]  I can't imagine a show I would like more than Ukulele Universe.
[01:08.160 --> 01:11.580]  You may laugh, but how about, say, on Central?
[01:11.800 --> 01:14.180]  The morning show where you commune with the dead.
[01:14.300 --> 01:15.920]  That stuff is fake, isn't it?
[01:16.220 --> 01:19.140]  All right, then that's a vote for Ukulele Universe.
[01:19.500 --> 01:20.960]  Thank you, Psychotica.
[01:28.830 --> 01:29.830]  No, thank you.
[01:30.070 --> 01:35.350]  And this is radio station WBAI, where depending on what clock I look at, it's either 7 o'clock or 8 o'clock.
[01:36.230 --> 01:40.170]  I'll trust the one that says 8 o'clock because that means it's time for Off the Hook.
[01:46.450 --> 01:48.470]  The telephone keeps ringing.
[01:48.930 --> 01:51.070]  So I ripped it off the wall.
[01:51.970 --> 01:54.030]  I cut myself while shaving.
[01:54.650 --> 01:56.650]  Now I can't make a call.
[01:57.390 --> 01:57.710]  I
[02:01.610 --> 02:05.030]  thought they would, but the best is paid for the worst.
[02:05.550 --> 02:07.550]  I hope that's understood.
[02:07.890 --> 02:10.850]  I guess
[04:53.280 --> 04:57.000]  that's kind of a tribute to the power of online commerce.
[04:58.020 --> 05:00.000]  I remember hearing this when I was a kid, you know.
[05:00.340 --> 05:04.760]  It's really cool that there was kind of a jazzed-up version of the 2001 theme.
[05:05.440 --> 05:06.720]  But, you know, I couldn't find it anywhere.
[05:06.840 --> 05:07.540]  I was looking all over the place.
[05:07.560 --> 05:12.100]  I was rampaging around the city all last week thinking, hey, that would be a perfect thing to play on the radio.
[05:12.260 --> 05:13.240]  You know, it's 2001.
[05:13.520 --> 05:13.780]  Get it?
[05:13.900 --> 05:15.380]  It's kind of a different sound.
[05:17.720 --> 05:19.220]  But I couldn't find it anywhere.
[05:19.940 --> 05:22.360]  So I went on the web, and sure enough, there it was.
[05:22.720 --> 05:23.480]  One click.
[05:23.660 --> 05:24.500]  One click shopping.
[05:24.500 --> 05:25.940]  Because they remember all your settings.
[05:25.940 --> 05:27.760]  They know exactly where you are.
[05:27.880 --> 05:29.680]  They know exactly how to send it to you.
[05:30.500 --> 05:33.520]  And a simple click, and bang, it's in the mail.
[05:33.920 --> 05:35.060]  And it took two days.
[05:35.120 --> 05:35.820]  I got the thing.
[05:36.280 --> 05:37.180]  Couldn't find us anywhere.
[05:37.580 --> 05:40.180]  Diodato, with also Sprague Zarathustra.
[05:41.100 --> 05:43.700]  The theme from 2001, as many know it.
[05:44.440 --> 05:53.220]  And, no, I still have not found a theater anyplace that is showing 2001 A Space Odyssey in a big screen, which is something I'd really like to see in 2001.
[05:53.860 --> 05:58.440]  Maybe somebody out there owns a theater and would be willing to do this.
[05:59.200 --> 06:00.260]  Anyway, this is Off the Hook.
[06:00.340 --> 06:02.940]  Emmanuel Goldstein here with you on this Tuesday night.
[06:03.080 --> 06:05.040]  Isaac is not here.
[06:06.060 --> 06:07.400]  He's away on assignment.
[06:08.680 --> 06:10.900]  Because he doesn't know that the assignment doesn't exist yet.
[06:12.000 --> 06:13.060]  But Alex is here.
[06:13.060 --> 06:13.820]  How's it going?
[06:14.020 --> 06:14.360]  Pretty good.
[06:14.500 --> 06:16.580]  And we also, on the phone, we have two guests.
[06:16.700 --> 06:18.020]  We have AutoJack and Junts.
[06:18.140 --> 06:20.060]  Say hello in alphabetical order, please.
[06:20.920 --> 06:24.240]  I guess I would be AutoJack, which starts with an A.
[06:24.460 --> 06:24.680]  Yes.
[06:25.060 --> 06:25.700]  So, hey, how you doing?
[06:26.420 --> 06:27.580]  Hi, this is Junts.
[06:28.000 --> 06:29.140]  And you start with a J.
[06:29.340 --> 06:30.800]  It's just like watching The Electric Company.
[06:31.480 --> 06:32.160]  Really cool.
[06:33.140 --> 06:35.860]  First, some information on a somber note.
[06:35.860 --> 06:50.800]  Our colleague, Chet Jackson, who many of you heard, passed away on January 1st, host of the acclaimed radio show Night Flight, has a funeral service scheduled for Tuesday, January 16th.
[06:50.820 --> 06:51.940]  That's one week from today.
[06:52.280 --> 06:53.240]  9.30 a.m.
[06:53.600 --> 06:59.160]  at the Unity Funeral Chapel, 2352 8th Avenue at 126th Street.
[06:59.740 --> 07:04.560]  So, please pay your respects and term it at the Rose Hill Cemetery in Linden, New Jersey.
[07:04.880 --> 07:08.580]  It's always a tremendous shock to us when we lose a colleague here at the radio station.
[07:08.700 --> 07:17.900]  And it just makes you realize what a family we are and how we can somehow forget that sometimes when we just go through the days and the weeks and the years.
[07:19.140 --> 07:22.600]  And don't really take the time to appreciate the people who are around here.
[07:23.660 --> 07:24.720]  We did that.
[07:24.840 --> 07:25.840]  We did that last week.
[07:25.960 --> 07:27.540]  We've done that over the last few weeks.
[07:28.280 --> 07:30.220]  We've been in crisis here at the station.
[07:30.620 --> 07:33.840]  But in many ways, crisis brings out the best in people.
[07:33.840 --> 07:39.820]  And it makes you kind of re-evaluate who you are, what you stand for, why, things like that.
[07:40.420 --> 07:42.980]  A few things happened in the past few weeks.
[07:43.020 --> 07:44.580]  And, of course, we'll be talking about other things as well.
[07:44.580 --> 07:51.740]  We're not just going to be devoting time to this, but if the listeners want to comment in any way on this, of course, our phone lines are always open for that.
[07:54.520 --> 07:58.740]  Last Saturday, there were a couple of interesting events that took place.
[07:59.800 --> 08:05.040]  The most interesting being the demonstration that took place outside the studios here at 120 Wall Street.
[08:06.060 --> 08:07.800]  Which, you know, I was thinking about this.
[08:08.580 --> 08:11.380]  Alex, you were at the old studios, 505 8th Avenue.
[08:11.460 --> 08:11.740]  Remember that?
[08:11.840 --> 08:13.020]  Yeah, I remember it quite well.
[08:13.020 --> 08:18.120]  Can you imagine having a demonstration with 800 or so people outside the studio there on 8th Avenue?
[08:18.380 --> 08:18.840]  That would be chaos.
[08:18.900 --> 08:19.440]  Wouldn't have worked.
[08:19.640 --> 08:33.000]  So, whoever decided to move the studios here, we have a nice little cul-de-sac where we can sort of close off the road and have huge throngs of people outside, you know, a la Bucharest or, you know, whatever Eastern European city, the revolution is taking place in.
[08:33.100 --> 08:33.700]  It's perfect.
[08:33.700 --> 08:34.280]  It's beautiful.
[08:34.280 --> 08:41.740]  You can look out the window of the 10th floor and look down and see the people there and wave and, you know, whatever other gestures are being passed back and forth.
[08:42.280 --> 08:44.700]  It was really a very positive thing.
[08:44.980 --> 08:55.960]  I know there's a lot of animosity in various quarters, but I just get a feeling that we're moving forward in some ways just by listening to what people are saying, hearing the constructive ideas.
[08:55.960 --> 08:58.120]  The thing is, we have to.
[08:58.340 --> 08:59.400]  It's not really a choice.
[08:59.700 --> 09:03.660]  This is a listener-sponsored station, so the sponsors have to be happy.
[09:03.760 --> 09:08.220]  The sponsors have to be listened to, and there's just no way that won't happen.
[09:08.440 --> 09:13.840]  The only way that won't happen is if the listeners lose interest and wander away and don't take part anymore.
[09:14.760 --> 09:18.480]  Now, AutoJack, you were at the demonstration on Saturday along with me.
[09:19.380 --> 09:20.040]  I was.
[09:20.200 --> 09:21.620]  Yeah, you're from California.
[09:21.720 --> 09:23.140]  In fact, you're in California right now.
[09:23.440 --> 09:23.960]  Yes, I am.
[09:23.960 --> 09:35.740]  And you don't have a station like this in San Diego, but I guess, you know, when you planned to come out here for New Year's, I don't think you realized any of this kind of stuff was going to be happening.
[09:36.180 --> 09:37.760]  How did it hit you?
[09:39.740 --> 09:42.220]  I knew about some of the stuff that was going on.
[09:42.460 --> 09:45.360]  I knew about, you know, the stuff.
[09:45.620 --> 09:50.720]  I knew about how WBAI was in danger, but I didn't know the exact scope of it.
[09:53.340 --> 10:05.460]  So, well, after talking to you and then after going to the actual demonstration and seeing how many people were there and seeing the response and, you know, the loudspeakers and the types of people that were there, it was just amazing.
[10:05.460 --> 10:06.040]  Mm-hmm.
[10:06.480 --> 10:11.600]  Yeah, it really, it was like a family gathering for me with, you know, five, six hundred of my family members.
[10:12.260 --> 10:18.100]  People all different walks of life, all different age groups, and just coming together.
[10:18.260 --> 10:21.880]  And I just, it's very hard to sum up in words.
[10:22.000 --> 10:23.540]  It's something you kind of have to experience yourself.
[10:23.540 --> 10:30.580]  But I imagine many of the people there in that crowd were people who had been to many rallies and demonstrations before.
[10:30.860 --> 10:37.280]  And that was probably one of the reasons why the cops were so nice to us, because they realized that these are the people that really have a lot of experience in this kind of matter.
[10:37.280 --> 10:41.740]  And if you look crooked at us, you know, we'll know exactly what procedure to follow.
[10:42.740 --> 10:45.700]  So I think that's one of the reasons why things went so well.
[10:45.800 --> 10:46.580]  It was a very nice day.
[10:46.580 --> 10:48.020]  You know, everybody was heard.
[10:48.420 --> 10:52.860]  The demonstration went an hour after it was scheduled to end.
[10:53.860 --> 10:58.400]  And I just came away with a very positive feeling that we're going to actually get someplace.
[10:58.400 --> 10:59.620]  People are going to be heard.
[11:00.340 --> 11:04.420]  Sure, there are a lot of screwed up things that will continue to happen.
[11:05.280 --> 11:06.600]  But we have to confront that.
[11:06.680 --> 11:09.480]  We can't just turn our backs and walk away from it.
[11:11.180 --> 11:14.720]  I think, you know, the people here will get that done somehow.
[11:14.720 --> 11:16.580]  And I think the listeners will join us.
[11:17.180 --> 11:19.880]  What were some of the highlights for you at the demonstration?
[11:20.740 --> 11:21.300]  Who, me?
[11:21.560 --> 11:21.820]  Yeah, you.
[11:25.780 --> 11:29.040]  Well, I think it was really cool, like, walking around, seeing the different types of people.
[11:29.380 --> 11:33.240]  I was, of course, handing out the WBAI stickers.
[11:34.500 --> 11:39.020]  And I had a chance to come in contact with, like, a lot of WBAI listeners.
[11:39.560 --> 11:47.280]  And one of them, which really took me by surprise, was this old man who was sitting there with an old-school typewriter.
[11:48.420 --> 11:49.620]  Yeah, I saw that guy.
[11:49.800 --> 11:50.500]  I saw that guy.
[11:50.580 --> 11:52.440]  Imagine you're sitting in a crowd of people.
[11:52.600 --> 11:59.660]  And instead of somebody typing away on a laptop, like we're all used to, he's got an underword typewriter there with rolls of paper.
[11:59.660 --> 12:00.660]  And he's just typing away.
[12:00.780 --> 12:01.580]  It was the most amazing thing.
[12:02.220 --> 12:04.300]  Well, I, like, actually had a chance to, like, talk to him.
[12:04.380 --> 12:05.260]  You know, I handed him a sticker.
[12:05.260 --> 12:06.860]  And, you know, I was interested.
[12:06.980 --> 12:08.540]  I was like, you know, what the hell are you doing?
[12:09.760 --> 12:14.920]  And he was like, you know, I expected him to be, like, making a transcript or something like that.
[12:15.000 --> 12:15.480]  But he wasn't.
[12:16.500 --> 12:18.460]  He was making a college thesis.
[12:18.680 --> 12:31.600]  He was, like, a 75-year-old man making a college thesis about the interim station manager and how it might be not all her fault.
[12:33.260 --> 12:36.020]  And maybe all of this has been orchestrated by her.
[12:37.360 --> 12:40.780]  And maybe somehow she's, like, a double agent or something like that.
[12:40.880 --> 12:41.700]  It was really weird.
[12:41.900 --> 12:44.000]  All kinds of theories being bandied about.
[12:44.000 --> 12:45.640]  He went on about it for, like, 30 minutes.
[12:45.700 --> 12:48.400]  And then finally I was just like, you know, I got to go hand out some more stickers.
[12:48.600 --> 12:50.080]  But it was interesting.
[12:51.060 --> 12:51.420]  Good.
[12:51.560 --> 12:51.740]  Okay.
[12:51.840 --> 13:01.000]  Well, that was one of many encounters I think people had with all kinds of other BAI listeners and fellow producers and things like that.
[13:01.000 --> 13:05.980]  Now, Alex, you were at an event at the exact same time that took place out in Long Island.
[13:06.040 --> 13:07.440]  I don't think a lot of people knew about this.
[13:07.520 --> 13:08.420]  You want to tell us something about that?
[13:08.460 --> 13:08.640]  Yeah, absolutely.
[13:08.640 --> 13:12.600]  It was held at the Huntington Cinema Arts Center in Huntington, of course.
[13:13.440 --> 13:15.780]  It was organized by the man that runs it.
[13:15.860 --> 13:18.440]  And we should probably thank him for that because it turned out to be a wonderful event.
[13:18.820 --> 13:21.040]  His name was Vic, and he did a really great job at that.
[13:22.180 --> 13:23.840]  And that, too, was incredibly diverse.
[13:23.980 --> 13:27.320]  I think maybe the hallmark of the protest in the city was diversity.
[13:27.480 --> 13:28.620]  There were so many different types of people.
[13:28.620 --> 13:30.120]  Well, that's our listenership is diversity.
[13:30.120 --> 13:30.380]  Sure.
[13:30.560 --> 13:36.140]  I mean, it was amazing to see all the different types of people that were affected positively, of course.
[13:36.340 --> 13:38.440]  Otherwise, they wouldn't be there by WBAI.
[13:38.800 --> 13:41.140]  Young people, old people, people of all different colors.
[13:41.300 --> 13:42.580]  It was absolutely amazing.
[13:42.740 --> 13:44.220]  And this was 50 miles away on Long Island.
[13:44.420 --> 13:44.460]  Yeah.
[13:44.560 --> 13:47.480]  And it was actually scheduled before the protest was scheduled.
[13:47.480 --> 13:50.660]  And the protest just happened to be scheduled at the same time as this meeting.
[13:50.740 --> 13:51.040]  Of course.
[13:51.040 --> 13:52.500]  We just have that kind of luck, don't we?
[13:52.500 --> 13:52.980]  Absolutely.
[13:53.180 --> 14:04.960]  But it actually turned out really well because somebody from the protest called up Huntington Cinema Arts Center and they set up a microphone, pretty much just placed a microphone to the phone and broadcast it in to the entire meeting.
[14:04.960 --> 14:10.240]  About the first 25, maybe half an hour's worth of the protest in the city.
[14:11.020 --> 14:15.360]  And everybody was impressed with what was going on.
[14:15.480 --> 14:17.360]  Everybody sat there and they were silent.
[14:17.600 --> 14:21.200]  And when people on Wall Street were clapping, people in Huntington were clapping.
[14:21.200 --> 14:25.420]  And you really felt like you were part of the same protest.
[14:25.620 --> 14:28.480]  Even though you were 50 miles away, there was such a feeling of solidarity there.
[14:28.800 --> 14:29.080]  Wow.
[14:29.160 --> 14:31.120]  And it's just because somebody organized it.
[14:31.160 --> 14:33.340]  Somebody got together and said, hey, people...
[14:33.700 --> 14:35.260]  I imagine they spread the word somehow.
[14:35.380 --> 14:35.420]  Yeah.
[14:35.460 --> 14:36.960]  I heard it on WUSB.
[14:37.160 --> 14:37.440]  Uh-huh.
[14:37.600 --> 14:38.240]  On Stony Brook.
[14:38.840 --> 14:39.800]  And how many people showed up?
[14:40.300 --> 14:41.620]  Well, there was...
[14:41.620 --> 14:44.380]  At first, we weren't sure how many people were going to show up.
[14:44.480 --> 14:46.440]  And only five or six people were there.
[14:46.920 --> 14:48.440]  There were 125 chairs.
[14:48.440 --> 14:51.000]  And before you knew it, all 125 were taken.
[14:51.300 --> 14:52.720]  People were standing around.
[14:53.340 --> 14:55.960]  At one point, everybody actually had to shift over.
[14:56.600 --> 14:58.340]  So other people could get into the room.
[14:58.520 --> 15:01.600]  There was probably a little more than 150 people there.
[15:02.040 --> 15:02.660]  That's great.
[15:02.920 --> 15:06.620]  I mean, considering that that's nowhere near where the station is, that's really great.
[15:06.740 --> 15:08.000]  And people from all over Long Island.
[15:08.920 --> 15:12.500]  When the meeting started, people stood up and announced where they were from.
[15:12.960 --> 15:16.540]  You had people from Shirley, people from Greenport, people from Huntington.
[15:16.920 --> 15:18.060]  Even people from Brooklyn.
[15:18.620 --> 15:18.960]  Wow.
[15:18.960 --> 15:19.380]  Came to Huntington.
[15:19.860 --> 15:23.240]  Why does somebody from Brooklyn go all the way out to Long Island instead of coming to New York?
[15:23.300 --> 15:24.140]  I really have no idea.
[15:24.260 --> 15:25.460]  Maybe you wanted to see a movie afterwards.
[15:26.820 --> 15:27.160]  Wow.
[15:27.340 --> 15:27.460]  Okay.
[15:27.520 --> 15:28.780]  Well, that's really heartening to know.
[15:28.860 --> 15:31.400]  Any encounters you had with people over there?
[15:31.420 --> 15:31.640]  Sure.
[15:31.680 --> 15:32.880]  There were a lot of people there.
[15:34.240 --> 15:35.860]  Actually, I was really surprised.
[15:36.240 --> 15:41.740]  When I stood up and announced myself and said I was a frequent speaker and off the hook, everybody started applauding.
[15:42.060 --> 15:42.280]  Really?
[15:42.460 --> 15:42.720]  Yeah.
[15:43.040 --> 15:43.600]  Oh, cool.
[15:43.760 --> 15:45.440]  I don't know why, but they love this show.
[15:45.440 --> 15:50.020]  There were a lot of people there that came up to me and people who you wouldn't think listened to this show.
[15:50.120 --> 15:53.420]  Even a lot of people that aren't too familiar with technology that came up to me.
[15:54.080 --> 15:56.860]  Older people said, you know, I listened off the hook all the time.
[15:57.480 --> 15:58.680]  It's my favorite show.
[15:58.680 --> 15:59.760]  I love it.
[15:59.880 --> 16:01.140]  I look forward to it all week.
[16:01.300 --> 16:02.260]  It's professionally done.
[16:02.500 --> 16:08.980]  You see, that's what I try to get across to people who are in the technology world, who think that the radio show only applies to them.
[16:09.040 --> 16:09.620]  It doesn't.
[16:09.700 --> 16:11.020]  It applies to people all over.
[16:11.260 --> 16:11.500]  Sure.
[16:11.600 --> 16:18.320]  You know, all different kinds of ways of life people are interested in, not only this radio program, but all kinds of other radio programs that appear on this station.
[16:18.740 --> 16:21.020]  So, yeah, it's great to actually meet the people.
[16:21.080 --> 16:25.880]  And if anything positive is going to come out of this, it's the fact that we're meeting the listeners, the people who make this possible.
[16:26.080 --> 16:26.440]  Oh, yeah.
[16:26.440 --> 16:29.620]  And hopefully those bonds will stay connected for quite some time.
[16:29.860 --> 16:38.360]  In fact, most of the people that came up to me and said they enjoyed off the hook said, first prefaced it with, you know, I'm not a computer expert, but I listen to off the hook everywhere.
[16:38.460 --> 16:39.480]  And I said, well, that's great.
[16:39.860 --> 16:43.120]  And they, you know, they feel like they're learning something, you know, at least in theory.
[16:43.300 --> 16:43.500]  Right.
[16:43.600 --> 16:45.040]  Well, there's no point preaching to the converted.
[16:45.200 --> 16:53.360]  You know, we want to be able to reach people who don't have a computer, who don't have access, who want to know what it's all about, because nobody else is going to tell them.
[16:53.500 --> 16:53.960]  That's right.
[16:56.440 --> 16:57.920]  They were in the station there as well.
[16:58.780 --> 16:59.720]  Errol was there.
[17:00.440 --> 17:01.120]  Errol Maitland.
[17:01.400 --> 17:01.620]  Errol Maitland.
[17:02.520 --> 17:03.300]  Sharan Harper.
[17:03.560 --> 17:03.880]  Uh-huh.
[17:03.960 --> 17:04.600]  She showed up.
[17:04.900 --> 17:06.820]  Banned from the BAI studios.
[17:07.300 --> 17:07.600]  Yes, that's right.
[17:07.700 --> 17:09.300]  Well, she wasn't banned from that meeting.
[17:09.440 --> 17:09.740]  Uh-huh.
[17:09.820 --> 17:10.280]  Not yet.
[17:10.720 --> 17:10.920]  Uh-huh.
[17:10.920 --> 17:11.980]  Were they received well?
[17:12.140 --> 17:13.420]  They were received very well.
[17:13.640 --> 17:17.080]  And also, Raven was there, who does the American Indian show.
[17:17.180 --> 17:17.340]  Okay.
[17:17.660 --> 17:19.440]  The Circle of Red Nations, I think it was called.
[17:19.640 --> 17:19.840]  Mm-hmm.
[17:20.960 --> 17:23.540]  Everybody from the station was received really, really well.
[17:24.020 --> 17:25.180]  A lot of the listeners...
[17:26.220 --> 17:31.640]  It's funny, too, is they would walk into the room, and they would see Errol there, or Sharan there, and they knew exactly who they were.
[17:31.820 --> 17:32.020]  Mm-hmm.
[17:32.080 --> 17:35.980]  So, you've never met me before, but I love your show, and I listen to it.
[17:35.980 --> 17:36.740]  I love...
[17:36.740 --> 17:38.940]  It was a wake-up call that Sharan did.
[17:39.360 --> 17:39.600]  Mm-hmm.
[17:39.660 --> 17:40.540]  With Bernard White, yes.
[17:40.940 --> 17:40.980]  Yeah.
[17:41.240 --> 17:51.460]  And everybody there was received really well, and Errol got up at the beginning, and he gave a pretty long talk to the audience, and that went over really well.
[17:51.500 --> 17:52.300]  And then he got up again.
[17:52.480 --> 17:53.500]  It was riveting, though, wasn't it?
[17:53.560 --> 17:54.360]  It was very riveting.
[17:54.420 --> 17:56.020]  He said some really interesting things.
[17:57.760 --> 17:59.440]  He started talking about snakes.
[17:59.980 --> 18:00.380]  Snakes?
[18:00.520 --> 18:00.880]  Snakes.
[18:00.980 --> 18:01.160]  Okay.
[18:01.340 --> 18:03.220]  I mean, it's amazing how somebody could tie that in.
[18:03.220 --> 18:20.660]  And, you know, he started talking about, you know, somebody could be put into a situation where they look just like me, you know, and they act just like me, and they walk just like me, and they talk just like me, but they're really not like me.
[18:21.120 --> 18:28.520]  And that's how he got into snakes, and, you know, talking about how things really shouldn't be made into racial issues when they're not racial issues.
[18:28.520 --> 18:34.440]  He says, you know, a black snake is still a snake, and a white snake is still a snake.
[18:34.620 --> 18:38.920]  A black snake or a white snake is definitely a snake, and snakes always bite.
[18:40.140 --> 18:46.380]  And I don't know what he was trying to get at, but I think his point got across pretty well.
[18:47.360 --> 18:50.440]  Yeah, sounds riveting to me.
[18:50.660 --> 18:50.880]  Yeah.
[18:51.940 --> 18:54.060]  Wow, so that was the event out in Long Island.
[18:54.060 --> 18:59.080]  We had an event here in New York City, and, of course, things are happening left and right.
[18:59.780 --> 19:03.720]  And I think, you know, we'll make progress as long as people continue to take an interest.
[19:03.860 --> 19:07.300]  Once you stop taking an interest, then things go badly.
[19:07.300 --> 19:08.200]  I've noticed that.
[19:08.780 --> 19:15.340]  Supposedly there's another demonstration outside the BAI Studios on Wednesday, January 17th, which I guess is a week from tomorrow.
[19:17.040 --> 19:28.160]  Unfortunately, there was a local advisory board meeting scheduled for tonight at the station, which was moved because apparently they're not allowed to meet in the station anymore.
[19:29.340 --> 19:35.760]  Concern about listeners in the station, which I don't understand that at all, but it was moved to 568 Broadway.
[19:35.880 --> 19:36.820]  It might still be going on now.
[19:36.820 --> 19:40.940]  If anybody who's at that meeting wants to give us a call, please let us know what happened.
[19:40.940 --> 19:43.220]  Otherwise, we'll report on it in future shows.
[19:45.240 --> 19:47.000]  But a lot of issues have to be addressed.
[19:47.180 --> 19:48.720]  Now, Junce is on the phone with us as well.
[19:48.720 --> 19:52.880]  Well, Junce organizes the Internet broadcast of this radio program.
[19:52.880 --> 20:09.240]  And over the past couple of weeks, he's expanded that role quite a bit, offering a secondary feed of the BAI signal that people have been listening to all around the world following this story, following the trial and tribulation of the radio station.
[20:10.360 --> 20:11.580]  What does that involve?
[20:11.800 --> 20:14.940]  What do you actually have to do in order to make that happen?
[20:15.360 --> 20:21.940]  Well, basically, you just tune it in on the stereo and feed it into the sound card on the computer that's doing the coding.
[20:22.480 --> 20:25.820]  And that signal gets generated and sent out to one of our servers.
[20:26.120 --> 20:28.860]  And that's where you're actually connecting to is the server.
[20:29.060 --> 20:30.460]  And it broadcasts from there.
[20:31.420 --> 20:33.180]  Sounds simple the way you explain it.
[20:33.840 --> 20:34.700]  Well, it is simple.
[20:34.840 --> 20:35.480]  Anybody can do it.
[20:35.660 --> 20:38.080]  In fact, we can always use more coders.
[20:38.080 --> 20:41.720]  So, you know, if you're out there, you can get BAI on your radio.
[20:42.760 --> 20:47.860]  Email me, junes at 2600.com or oth at 2600.com.
[20:47.980 --> 20:49.780]  You might want to spell Junes for those people who...
[20:49.780 --> 20:54.540]  Yeah, that's J-U-I-N-T-Z at 2600.com.
[20:54.560 --> 20:59.360]  And it's on the web page if you go to www.2600.com slash off the hook.
[20:59.480 --> 21:04.220]  You say you need coders, but really what you need are people with radios that can figure out how to hook them into their computers.
[21:04.420 --> 21:04.640]  Right.
[21:04.760 --> 21:05.880]  And we can teach you how to do it.
[21:05.920 --> 21:07.580]  All the software you need to do it is free.
[21:09.240 --> 21:12.760]  So, it's just an hour of your time every week.
[21:13.060 --> 21:21.840]  I can't tell you how valuable this was, especially when I was overseas a couple of weeks ago and wanting to know more, wanting to hear what was going on.
[21:21.940 --> 21:26.200]  And the primary server that we have here at the radio station filled up completely.
[21:26.440 --> 21:28.140]  So, we needed that secondary server.
[21:28.220 --> 21:33.280]  And I was able to walk around in Europe listening to the radio station uninterrupted.
[21:33.460 --> 21:34.920]  And it was the most incredible thing.
[21:34.980 --> 21:37.480]  And, of course, I was up at all different hours because of the time difference.
[21:37.580 --> 21:40.340]  So, I was hearing things I wouldn't ordinarily hear, like morning shows.
[21:40.500 --> 21:40.820]  Oh, yeah.
[21:41.060 --> 21:43.940]  And it was just an incredible thing.
[21:43.940 --> 21:56.900]  And you realize that the power and the reach of the radio station, when people over there who already knew about the radio station are listening, you know, with bated breath to see what will happen next, it's, you know, it's a fascinating thing.
[21:56.900 --> 21:57.800]  It's history in the making.
[21:58.780 --> 22:02.280]  And I'm really appreciative that you're able to help us out in this way.
[22:02.540 --> 22:03.080]  Sure, no problem.
[22:04.360 --> 22:08.720]  Any comments, any statements or appeals to the listeners that you want to make?
[22:09.040 --> 22:11.280]  Well, maybe just a comment.
[22:12.380 --> 22:19.120]  Because of what we've been doing, putting up the second stream, I found myself listening to BAI a lot more than I used to.
[22:19.580 --> 22:31.180]  And, you know, I'm finding shows and hearing people call in, the listeners of BAI really floor me with the thought that they put behind their comments and the passion that they have when they call in.
[22:31.560 --> 22:32.860]  You know, it's just, it's heartening to hear.
[22:33.080 --> 22:34.020]  It sure is.
[22:34.120 --> 22:34.540]  It sure is.
[22:34.600 --> 22:44.620]  And week after week, I'm amazed by the dedication, the people that listen year after year, that know so much of the history of this place and of the world as well.
[22:45.720 --> 22:49.340]  So, my sincere appreciation to those people.
[22:49.940 --> 22:54.800]  There was an article yesterday in Newsday, which I thought was incredibly good.
[22:54.900 --> 22:57.160]  We're getting some very good media coverage here.
[22:57.660 --> 23:00.240]  This one was written by the radio correspondent, Peter Goodman.
[23:00.300 --> 23:05.480]  I'd like to read this for the benefit of the people who might not get Newsday, especially people outside the listening area.
[23:06.500 --> 23:07.960]  He starts with two quotes.
[23:08.220 --> 23:16.560]  First of all, the title of the article is Why WBAI Should Be Left Alone by Pacifica, with left in quotes, because I guess we're kind of on the left of center.
[23:17.300 --> 23:18.140]  Here's a quote.
[23:18.280 --> 23:32.720]  My feeling is that a more beneficial disposition would be of the New York signal, as there is a smaller subscriber base, far more associated value, a dysfunctional staff, and an overall better opportunity to redefine Pacifica.
[23:33.220 --> 23:40.480]  That comment attributed to Pacifica Foundation board member Michael Palmer's email to then-chairman Mary Frances Barry, July 12, 1999.
[23:41.160 --> 23:48.760]  Of course, that email somehow made it out to the rest of the world, not by any kind of subterfuge, but basically somebody typing in the wrong email address.
[23:49.480 --> 23:58.560]  And then the second quote, which you may have heard on this show, you have asked questions in a hostile, combative, even disrespectful tone, and have never been able to combat the facts I have given you.
[23:59.020 --> 24:00.040]  Alex, do you know who that was?
[24:00.460 --> 24:01.220]  No, who was that?
[24:01.220 --> 24:02.240]  That was President Clinton.
[24:02.540 --> 24:02.900]  Wow.
[24:02.900 --> 24:08.640]  Well, scolding Amy Goodman of Pacifica's Democracy Now on November 8, 2000, after she asked him all kinds of questions.
[24:08.900 --> 24:09.060]  I do remember that.
[24:09.080 --> 24:09.600]  You remember it now?
[24:09.840 --> 24:10.080]  Yeah, I do.
[24:10.260 --> 24:10.480]  Yeah.
[24:10.920 --> 24:12.540]  You tend to remember when the president yells at you.
[24:13.260 --> 24:13.980]  Yeah, I do.
[24:14.060 --> 24:22.920]  If you want to know about the ruckus within the tiny leftist five-station Pacifica Foundation and its New York outlet, WBAI 99.5 FM, those two statements say it all.
[24:23.180 --> 24:29.660]  First, Palmer is suggesting that Pacifica sell WBAI, one of its two flagship stations, to raise money and change the network.
[24:29.840 --> 24:40.420]  The foundation was created by conscientious objectors after World War II, whereas Palmer, now the board treasurer, is a real estate executive in Houston, where the Pacifica outlet is essentially a country western station.
[24:40.860 --> 24:47.520]  Second, there's Clinton, 25 minutes into an extraordinary grilling by Goodman, losing his temper at her in placable questioning.
[24:47.960 --> 24:53.820]  Since then, Goodman has complained that her bosses have harassed her and tried to censor her program, Pacifica's most popular show.
[24:54.120 --> 25:07.000]  Most recently, but certainly not finally, there is the Christmas coup at WBAI, when Pacifica's executive director entered the offices late on the Friday before Christmas, changed the locks, fired the program director and a key producer, banned others,
[25:07.120 --> 25:09.560]  and temporarily barred workers, including Goodman.
[25:10.220 --> 25:16.480]  Needless to say, the, quote, dysfunctional, unquote, staff, and many listeners are in an uproar.
[25:16.480 --> 25:34.880]  What they fear, and what clearly appears to be happening, is that the national board, dominated by corporate executives and lawyers, rather than unionists and social activists, as in the past, wants Pacifica to be a centrally run corporate organization more interested in getting a large audience by toning itself down.
[25:35.180 --> 25:37.260]  Less attitude, more obedience.
[25:39.220 --> 25:40.560]  Should anyone care?
[25:41.000 --> 25:46.100]  Pacifica, with five stations in some of the nation's biggest markets, doesn't even register in the ratings.
[25:46.620 --> 25:51.600]  The board leadership thinks it has become irrelevant, and many industry pros agree.
[25:52.100 --> 25:57.080]  If the purpose of a radio station is to have listeners, a station without them has no reason for being.
[25:57.520 --> 26:04.740]  Pacifica's politics are outdated, 60s leftovers, worthless in the 21st century, where socialism is dead and the market rules.
[26:05.360 --> 26:06.820]  Very seductive arguments.
[26:07.220 --> 26:09.840]  Radio today is run by a handful of huge corporations.
[26:10.400 --> 26:17.460]  Pacifica's stations, created when AM was king, and FM frequencies went begging, are right in the middle of the commercial dial.
[26:18.440 --> 26:19.820]  They're worth a mountain of money.
[26:20.000 --> 26:23.520]  WBAI might bring $200 million or more on the open market.
[26:23.720 --> 26:26.440]  And a cash-starved foundation could do a lot with that.
[26:26.700 --> 26:28.840]  Even buy a cheaper location and keep going.
[26:29.300 --> 26:32.700]  Where's the harm in running focus groups and giving more listeners what they want?
[26:32.700 --> 26:36.720]  It would be a disaster, even if very few people would know about it.
[26:37.160 --> 26:41.240]  The truth is that WBAI does give its listeners what they want.
[26:41.420 --> 26:50.460]  The mere fact that it manages to raise enough money to limp along without corporate underwriting or significant government support shows that enough people care about what they hear to write checks.
[26:50.820 --> 26:56.380]  Yes, the programming seems obsessive in its concern for fringe issues, but they're not always on the fringe.
[26:57.100 --> 27:01.060]  WBAI has been pounding for years at the restrictive Rockefeller drug laws.
[27:01.060 --> 27:12.480]  Just last week, Governor George Pataki announced plans for major reforms, and WBAI's stalwarts Al Grandpa Lewis and retired New York City police detective Frank Serpico were prominent in the crowd in Albany.
[27:13.380 --> 27:22.480]  Most important, at a time when a national discourse is dominated by voices from the center and the right, the continuance of a truly left-wing organ, no matter how small, is extremely valuable.
[27:22.780 --> 27:24.140]  They paid for that microphone.
[27:24.580 --> 27:25.500]  Let them use it.
[27:26.360 --> 27:31.000]  And that article came from Peter Goodman at Newsday.
[27:31.940 --> 27:33.600]  I thought it was a tremendous job.
[27:33.740 --> 27:35.360]  I thought it really said a lot.
[27:35.580 --> 27:36.140]  Definitely did.
[27:37.580 --> 27:38.780]  All right, we've been getting mail.
[27:38.900 --> 27:42.020]  Oh, boy, I don't think I've ever seen so much mail come into this place.
[27:42.500 --> 27:44.980]  I mean, paper mail, which is what I prefer.
[27:45.100 --> 27:47.100]  I prefer to get the paper mail rather than email.
[27:47.240 --> 27:49.440]  We've been getting a lot of email, too, but paper mail is always cool.
[27:49.980 --> 27:51.260]  I'd like to read a couple of those.
[27:51.480 --> 27:52.800]  We don't really have time to read a whole lot.
[27:52.800 --> 27:56.820]  We do want to take some phone calls at 212-209-2900.
[27:57.980 --> 28:00.220]  But let's see if we can read a couple of them.
[28:02.120 --> 28:05.080]  Dear Off the Hook, I couldn't get through on the phone last night, and so this short letter.
[28:05.220 --> 28:11.660]  I only tuned in around 8.30 p.m., and I think you were in the midst of talking about a website that didn't have enough information regarding what's happening at the station.
[28:12.040 --> 28:19.080]  If you were referring to the WBAI website, yesterday I received an email from Eileen Sutton representing the concerned friends of WBAI.
[28:19.080 --> 28:28.600]  It was a message forwarded from Lynn Jerry, which said that Pacifica had obtained access and altered the website, removing any information, the links, etc., having to do with the current problems.
[28:29.300 --> 28:32.100]  I've been listening and contributing to WBAI for less than four years.
[28:32.100 --> 28:37.260]  I think that the usual programming should go on, but not to the point of pretending that everything's fine when we all know it isn't.
[28:37.680 --> 28:39.900]  Thank you for continuing to discuss the crisis.
[28:40.200 --> 28:41.460]  That's a sign, Sheila.
[28:43.480 --> 28:46.460]  Here's another one from the New York Zapatistas.
[28:47.360 --> 28:48.220]  How about that?
[28:49.080 --> 29:08.740]  As supporters of the Zapatista movement and as sympathizers in Chiapas, Mexico, activists in other local, national, and international causes, and as people striving to be free, we have relied on WBAI-FM to tell us the truth, to help spread our word, and to maintain an ideal that reflects the goals towards which we and our companions around the world are striving democracy,
[29:09.020 --> 29:10.320]  liberty, and justice.
[29:11.180 --> 29:22.900]  Specifically, as supporters of the EZLN, we have also done our best to learn from our campaneros, actually, in Chiapas, because we believe that the means by which we struggle are as important to the struggle as our ends.
[29:23.160 --> 29:30.900]  Among the Zapatistas and their supporters and allies, these means have been marked by a radical commitment to truthfulness, democracy, respect for the human being, and compassion.
[29:31.440 --> 29:45.160]  We wish to express our firm adherence to these means of struggle and to make it known that we do not support anyone or any group who, though claiming to be working toward a future in which the human being will be valued at his or her true worth, treats human beings here and now in any way that is dishonest,
[29:45.460 --> 29:47.500]  undemocratic, disrespectful, or cruel.
[29:47.800 --> 29:50.200]  In light of this, we would like to point out the following.
[29:50.380 --> 29:54.080]  It is dishonest to suggest that there is no alternative to chaos but tyranny.
[29:54.280 --> 29:58.820]  It is dishonest to attribute to others one's own destructive actions and impulses.
[29:59.040 --> 30:02.160]  Paranoia is caused by a desire to inflict harm on other people.
[30:02.740 --> 30:14.400]  WBAI needs to be protected from the people and the undemocratic processes that have brought it to its present condition of captivity, at least accusing others of your own destructive actions and impulses serves the purpose of tipping your hand.
[30:14.580 --> 30:22.920]  It is dishonest and undemocratic, it's so very republican, to take by force what you cannot achieve by consensus or even majority vote.
[30:23.080 --> 30:31.040]  And it has not escaped our notice that the principal victims of the station take over, as always, as so very unbearably always, are people of color.
[30:31.820 --> 30:40.320]  It is dishonest and foolish to demand from others what you are unwilling to give them, and this is as true of love and compassion as it is of respect.
[30:40.640 --> 30:50.800]  It is dishonest to claim that the forced removal of people from WBAI through firings carried out with calculated cruelty and changing the locks and the doors is an internal matter.
[30:51.120 --> 30:54.560]  Once they are no longer on the inside, neither is your conflict.
[30:54.560 --> 30:55.560]  This should be obvious.
[30:55.600 --> 31:01.280]  If you don't want your family business to be out in the street, then you mustn't put so many members of your family there.
[31:01.960 --> 31:06.160]  Abuse involves the entire human family and abuse thrives in secrecy.
[31:06.260 --> 31:15.860]  Both the people who have been fired and banned and the remaining producers at WBAI have been called upon to speak out by the listeners of WBAI because this is not a time for secrets.
[31:16.000 --> 31:22.040]  And if this is really an internal matter, what is the role of the external paramilitaries that were invited onto the premises?
[31:23.920 --> 31:31.200]  It is absurdly dishonest to suggest that the potentially fatal wound that was visited on the spirit of WBAI by the station takeover was self-inflicted.
[31:31.200 --> 31:45.760]  It is dishonest and disrespectful to suggest that the station's listeners must feel like children, which is to say powerless, and that they must do as they are told, particularly with regard to giving money to a radio station that no longer exists in order to keep it from going out of existence.
[31:46.000 --> 31:50.900]  It is dishonest and disrespectful to announce that you will make no changes in programming while you are making them.
[31:51.020 --> 31:57.040]  It is dishonest and cruel to suggest that any healing can ever begin while the knife is still being thrust further in.
[31:57.380 --> 31:58.760]  Republicans, please take note.
[31:59.020 --> 32:03.740]  Step one of any healing process is and always has been first take the knife out.
[32:04.300 --> 32:14.820]  The New York Zapatistas support all movements and all people everywhere who are working non-violently and honorably toward more democracy, more autonomy, more truthfulness, and more compassionate WBAI.
[32:15.040 --> 32:26.820]  Specifically, the New York Zapatistas support the three lawsuits already begun against the National Board of Pacifica, the establishment of a separate fundraising effort that can release monies to WBAI when it becomes more democratic, more autonomous,
[32:26.980 --> 32:32.220]  more truthful, and more compassionate, the rehiring of those who were fired and full public access to the station.
[32:32.600 --> 32:40.620]  We remain entirely unconvinced by all the, quote, explanations, unquote, we have heard so far for the firings, bannings, and program changes at WBAI.
[32:40.760 --> 32:47.300]  New York City police officers accused of murder have come up with more plausible stories in only 48 hours, and their stories are not plausible.
[32:48.420 --> 32:52.080]  And that is signed by the New York Zapatistas.
[32:53.360 --> 33:00.060]  And, I don't know, I feel strangely comforted by the fact that our listeners are out there thinking about us.
[33:00.260 --> 33:01.460]  Yeah, take the knife out.
[33:01.700 --> 33:02.640]  That should be the motto.
[33:02.980 --> 33:03.780]  Take the knife out.
[33:03.920 --> 33:04.220]  Yeah.
[33:04.380 --> 33:04.860]  I like that.
[33:05.180 --> 33:05.340]  Yeah.
[33:05.600 --> 33:09.360]  Okay, we don't want to keep our listeners from calling in.
[33:09.800 --> 33:18.020]  There are a couple of technology-related things I want to touch upon, too, on the outside chance that some of our listeners are wanting to talk about that as well.
[33:18.180 --> 33:18.760]  Oh, I don't know.
[33:19.560 --> 33:21.320]  Well, I had an interesting experience.
[33:21.960 --> 33:23.980]  Actually, AutoJack, you were here for this experience as well.
[33:24.020 --> 33:24.460]  Are you still there?
[33:24.560 --> 33:25.420]  Did you fall asleep?
[33:25.640 --> 33:25.980]  Okay, good.
[33:26.940 --> 33:40.500]  Basically, as you recall, we were sued last year by the Motion Picture Association of America and all their nice friends at Time Warner and Disney and all the other companies that produce films.
[33:41.000 --> 33:55.320]  And this was all centered around DVDs, all centered around access control, being able to watch DVDs on Linux machines, being able to watch Region 1 DVDs and Region 2, etc.
[33:56.180 --> 34:11.540]  And what basically this means is that this form of technology as future forms of technology are to be controlled or to be dictated as to how you will be able to access the technology.
[34:12.020 --> 34:19.020]  It's something that we're not used to, something that has not happened before, something that we may have just accepted blindly because we didn't really know what was happening.
[34:20.000 --> 34:26.020]  Well, I had my first experience with this, actually dealing with the technology.
[34:26.240 --> 34:32.040]  It would seem strange that we got sued for this and I had no experience with it, but they didn't really seem to care about that.
[34:32.040 --> 34:34.380]  The fact that, you know, I didn't write the program.
[34:34.460 --> 34:35.960]  The fact that I didn't run the program.
[34:36.040 --> 34:38.840]  The fact that I didn't even own a DVD player, for God's sake.
[34:39.300 --> 34:40.440]  No, that didn't matter to them.
[34:41.220 --> 34:43.100]  But finally, I got a DVD player.
[34:43.300 --> 34:47.780]  And, you know, I figured if I'm going to get a DVD player, I might as well get one that has a little bit of power.
[34:48.020 --> 34:48.560]  You know?
[34:48.680 --> 34:50.120]  A little bit of extra oomph.
[34:50.520 --> 34:52.120]  And I got the Apex.
[34:52.640 --> 35:00.780]  The Apex is the one that allows you to go through a backdoor and change the region coding to whatever you want.
[35:00.780 --> 35:04.380]  Now, is this a violation of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act?
[35:04.720 --> 35:05.700]  Probably it is.
[35:05.960 --> 35:06.940]  Probably it is.
[35:07.380 --> 35:15.340]  I'll say here on these airwaves, I don't care because I think I have the right to buy something and watch it however I damn well please.
[35:15.640 --> 35:16.640]  So that's what I did.
[35:16.660 --> 35:19.140]  When I was over in Europe, I picked up a couple of films.
[35:19.400 --> 35:24.460]  One of which was the last Stanley Kubrick film, Eyes Wide Shut.
[35:24.640 --> 35:25.080]  You see that?
[35:25.080 --> 35:25.940]  I did, actually.
[35:26.160 --> 35:26.160]  Yeah.
[35:26.300 --> 35:27.040]  That was interesting.
[35:27.380 --> 35:28.340]  It was an interesting film.
[35:28.460 --> 35:29.460]  You guys all saw that, right?
[35:30.180 --> 35:30.340]  Yeah.
[35:30.700 --> 35:31.980]  Everybody saw that film.
[35:32.100 --> 35:34.360]  Okay, well, here's something you might not know.
[35:34.940 --> 35:40.520]  That film was really cut to pieces in this country, in the United States.
[35:40.740 --> 35:45.700]  Well, one scene in particular, for those of you who saw it, there's a big orgy scene in the middle.
[35:45.700 --> 35:46.180]  Hmm.
[35:47.500 --> 35:58.280]  And one thing I had heard rumors about was that digitally created characters were created to stand in the way of what was actually going on.
[35:58.380 --> 36:04.940]  So it looked like you were looking at the orgy that was happening, but there were people standing in front of you and you couldn't see past them.
[36:04.980 --> 36:09.760]  It seemed bizarre to me as such a thing would actually happen, but I had to find out for sure.
[36:09.760 --> 36:13.540]  So when I was in Holland, I was going through a video store.
[36:13.700 --> 36:14.780]  I came upon some DVDs.
[36:14.860 --> 36:18.160]  Of course, they said Region 2, PAL encoded, all that kind of thing.
[36:18.700 --> 36:19.540]  And I bought them.
[36:19.800 --> 36:27.980]  I figured I'd have some explaining to do when I went through customs and they accused me of importing films that weren't supposed to be seen in this country, like Iran or something like that.
[36:28.260 --> 36:29.280]  Fortunately, that didn't happen.
[36:29.680 --> 36:31.320]  I made it through customs just fine.
[36:32.560 --> 36:41.620]  And then we plugged the Apex in, turned it on for the first time, and the first thing that happened when we pressed the button, it said...
[36:41.620 --> 36:42.900]  What did it say, AutoJack?
[36:44.140 --> 36:44.500]  Region...
[36:45.580 --> 36:46.280]  Oh, Christ.
[36:46.320 --> 36:47.200]  I don't remember.
[36:47.300 --> 36:49.360]  It said Region Denied or something like that.
[36:49.360 --> 36:53.320]  Yeah, something illegal region or region, you know, bad region or something like that.
[36:53.480 --> 36:53.780]  Horrible.
[36:53.780 --> 37:00.240]  Then, thanks to the Internet, I was able to find out the exact key sequence that you press to get into the hidden menu.
[37:00.380 --> 37:04.280]  And that hidden menu allows you to change to any region you want or to no region.
[37:04.820 --> 37:05.680]  And so we did that.
[37:05.800 --> 37:08.420]  We hit a couple of other buttons to get into...
[37:08.420 --> 37:10.820]  Remember the PAL situation that we had?
[37:10.900 --> 37:17.640]  Yeah, we had a PAL situation where basically it was a rolling picture, and I was really afraid that somehow it wouldn't work.
[37:18.120 --> 37:19.860]  But then you figured out that we had to hit...
[37:19.860 --> 37:21.600]  I discovered the P slash N button.
[37:21.600 --> 37:23.720]  P slash N, PAL slash NTSC.
[37:24.300 --> 37:25.220]  We hit that.
[37:25.480 --> 37:28.260]  The button made it magically work.
[37:28.320 --> 37:31.520]  And we were able to see the film in the European version.
[37:31.620 --> 37:32.160]  And you know what?
[37:32.340 --> 37:34.500]  None of those people were standing in front of the orgy there.
[37:34.660 --> 37:37.040]  It was a completely different film.
[37:37.220 --> 37:39.360]  A film that has not been seen in this country.
[37:39.520 --> 37:40.940]  I mean, it was unbelievable.
[37:41.280 --> 37:43.880]  Now, my question is, how?
[37:44.060 --> 37:46.920]  How do Americans see this film?
[37:47.280 --> 37:49.660]  Assuming it's only out on DVD, all right?
[37:49.760 --> 37:53.220]  Which, if it's not, if it's out on VHS, it won't be for long.
[37:53.400 --> 37:55.200]  Films in the future will not come out on tape.
[37:55.320 --> 37:56.100]  They will only come out on DVD.
[37:56.360 --> 37:58.640]  So how are Americans supposed to do this?
[37:58.660 --> 38:02.840]  I guess they can buy another DVD player and import it.
[38:02.940 --> 38:04.220]  But, you know, is that even legal?
[38:04.900 --> 38:05.760]  What legal way?
[38:05.780 --> 38:07.140]  I'd like to ask Jack Valente this.
[38:07.140 --> 38:17.160]  Let's say I want to make a little documentary, making fair use of some clips from the European version, from the American version, to show the difference.
[38:17.280 --> 38:20.040]  To show how the digital technology was implemented.
[38:20.260 --> 38:21.540]  How do we do this?
[38:21.620 --> 38:28.180]  How do we take the Region 2 DVD and the Region 1 DVD, put them together, and make our own little documentary on how this was...
[38:28.180 --> 38:29.920]  I can't think of any way it can be done.
[38:30.060 --> 38:35.460]  I think he'd probably just call you a thief, a pirate, and other nasty things.
[38:35.660 --> 38:36.880]  And then avoid questions.
[38:37.140 --> 38:38.420]  I could write a song about it.
[38:38.640 --> 38:39.200]  Yeah, yeah.
[38:39.440 --> 38:41.400]  I think that's always the answer.
[38:42.500 --> 38:46.180]  AutoJack writes songs when issues come up.
[38:46.200 --> 38:48.840]  In fact, he's writing a Pacifica song, aren't you, AutoJack?
[38:49.100 --> 38:50.080]  Yeah, I'm working on it.
[38:50.140 --> 38:51.220]  I have some lyrics.
[38:51.460 --> 38:51.940]  All right.
[38:52.520 --> 38:54.300]  And I have part of a beat laid down.
[38:55.940 --> 39:00.920]  I'll let you know about the progress of it, but I don't know how soon that will be available.
[39:01.560 --> 39:03.680]  I don't know if it will ever be available, for that matter.
[39:03.840 --> 39:05.020]  But I'm working on it.
[39:05.140 --> 39:05.420]  Okay.
[39:05.880 --> 39:08.600]  That's comforting to know that someone out there is working on things like that.
[39:08.600 --> 39:10.680]  Can I ask you a quick question, Emmanuel?
[39:11.260 --> 39:12.340]  Now, the new...
[39:12.340 --> 39:20.280]  Well, rather, the old scene that was made into a new scene for Americans, was the old scene, the real scene, was it offensive?
[39:20.960 --> 39:21.400]  Obscene?
[39:21.620 --> 39:22.540]  Well, I don't know.
[39:22.540 --> 39:24.800]  Well, maybe if you're Jimmy Swaggart or something, it would be.
[39:24.900 --> 39:25.500]  But the point is...
[39:25.500 --> 39:28.160]  Do you think that it would really, really shock people?
[39:28.660 --> 39:29.200]  I don't...
[39:29.200 --> 39:30.120]  It depends on the people.
[39:30.260 --> 39:31.360]  Some people might be shocked.
[39:31.440 --> 39:31.940]  Some people might not.
[39:31.940 --> 39:38.740]  But if you're going to see a film that's about orgies in the first place, you shouldn't be, you know, shocked to see one in progress.
[39:38.740 --> 39:41.460]  I mean, this is really what went on with Stalin.
[39:42.180 --> 39:43.920]  I mean, he took control of the cinema.
[39:44.520 --> 39:46.700]  He started suppressing almost every film.
[39:46.740 --> 39:52.000]  It's just, I think people should have the right to choose, the right to decide if they want to see a particular type of film.
[39:52.040 --> 39:57.800]  Now, when I was over there, though, I realized that it was more an issue of access for them than it is for us.
[39:58.300 --> 40:02.040]  Because in Europe, you don't see as many films, because most of them come out of here.
[40:02.640 --> 40:04.060]  And you just can't...
[40:04.060 --> 40:05.720]  Some films are never released over there.
[40:05.820 --> 40:06.720]  Some films never come out.
[40:06.800 --> 40:08.180]  You have to buy them in the United States.
[40:08.260 --> 40:10.660]  There's just no way you can see them otherwise.
[40:11.380 --> 40:20.640]  And by the same token, let's say that you want to see some French film that only came out in France that will never be released here because it doesn't have distribution in this country.
[40:20.640 --> 40:24.960]  How are you supposed to see that without having to buy all new hardware just for that one region?
[40:24.960 --> 40:32.520]  And then, God forbid, you want to see something in another part of the world as well, you could buy eight different DVD players just to see different films.
[40:32.800 --> 40:40.260]  I mean, if anything, it's going to make us more self-centered and less interested, if that's even possible, less interested in world affairs.
[40:40.580 --> 40:47.860]  It's this kind of attitude that tells you that, yeah, only certain regions can watch films and you can't venture outside your region.
[40:48.060 --> 40:49.980]  I found something interesting on the net today, actually.
[40:49.980 --> 40:55.080]  This is a site called CodeFreeDVD.com.
[40:55.960 --> 40:57.600]  Yes, CodeFreeDVD.com.
[40:57.740 --> 41:02.420]  They sell DVD players that don't have region codes.
[41:02.540 --> 41:03.600]  They're based in England.
[41:04.880 --> 41:07.160]  And here's a player.
[41:07.260 --> 41:07.880]  They have a bunch of them.
[41:07.940 --> 41:10.260]  This one's called the Digitron DVS-360.
[41:10.540 --> 41:14.780]  Plays all DVD movies from all six regions and MP3 files.
[41:14.780 --> 41:20.580]  Multi-voltage for 100 volt to 230 volt worldwide compatible power output converts PAL NTSC.
[41:20.680 --> 41:22.820]  NTSC PAL works in virtually all modern TVs.
[41:23.480 --> 41:32.160]  Lifetime guarantee, which basically means if they come up with some other way of preventing you from watching a foreign film, they will fix it for you.
[41:33.480 --> 41:43.980]  I just think it's cool to see a site out there, to see a bunch of people out there that care enough to just bypass this, you know, to say, to hell with these rules and regulations.
[41:43.980 --> 41:45.180]  This is just not fair.
[41:45.960 --> 41:48.120]  So, yeah, you can see foreign films.
[41:48.320 --> 41:50.240]  Isn't that amazing that you can actually do that?
[41:50.320 --> 41:53.540]  Again, that site is CodeFreeDVD.com.
[41:53.720 --> 41:56.400]  Hopefully one of many that are out there now.
[41:58.280 --> 41:58.700]  Okay.
[41:59.680 --> 42:02.180]  I want to read one more story, then we'll take some phone calls.
[42:02.720 --> 42:04.340]  Because this is kind of a funny story.
[42:06.040 --> 42:07.520]  Hackers kill off heroes.
[42:07.520 --> 42:08.280]  You see this one?
[42:08.500 --> 42:08.940]  No.
[42:09.300 --> 42:11.340]  Yeah, this is kind of scary.
[42:12.000 --> 42:17.160]  A virtual massacre has robbed an online fantasy world of its greatest heroes.
[42:17.460 --> 42:26.440]  Hackers exploited a loophole in the sign-on systems for the popular online game Diablo 2 to hijack and kill many of its powerful characters.
[42:26.800 --> 42:33.900]  Keen players have seen sophisticated warriors and creatures built up over hundreds of hours of game playing wiped from the screens.
[42:33.900 --> 42:34.620]  Oh, it's murder.
[42:34.760 --> 42:35.240]  It's murder.
[42:35.240 --> 42:43.700]  The hack occurred just after computer game maker Blizzard Entertainment updated the software, supporting the online version of its popular PC game.
[42:44.000 --> 42:49.500]  The game allows players to create characters such as barbarians, sorcerers, and necromancers.
[42:49.720 --> 42:54.380]  These are pitted against monsters and other weird adversaries, including the powerful demon Diablo.
[42:55.020 --> 43:01.420]  In return for ridding the world of evil, characters are rewarded with magic items, gold, and improved combat skills.
[43:01.780 --> 43:07.740]  But an unforeseen consequence of the update was to make it much easier for hackers to pose as players and hijack characters.
[43:07.820 --> 43:10.440]  I don't know why they automatically assume they're hackers doing this.
[43:10.440 --> 43:11.800]  And I love the terms they use.
[43:12.320 --> 43:12.840]  Hijack.
[43:12.980 --> 43:13.120]  Yeah.
[43:13.840 --> 43:20.300]  By repeatedly trying to log in, the hackers managed to crash the sign-on system and gain access to other players' accounts.
[43:20.540 --> 43:24.700]  Even some Blizzard Entertainment employees lost control of their characters.
[43:25.100 --> 43:25.600]  Oh my god.
[43:26.000 --> 43:33.180]  News of the loophole spread quickly, and many people exploited the flaw to take over and kill strong characters or strip them of their most powerful magic items.
[43:33.920 --> 43:37.360]  Precise details of the extent of the massacre are hard to ascertain.
[43:37.640 --> 43:43.400]  It is unclear how the error exactly arose, who exploited it, and how many characters have been killed.
[43:43.600 --> 43:45.860]  Some reports suggest hundreds have been erased.
[43:46.420 --> 43:49.980]  On one player league, eight out of the top ten characters were killed off.
[43:50.820 --> 43:54.640]  Players exchanging news about the massacre described it as horrible and terrible.
[43:54.940 --> 43:57.820]  One dubbed it the first online mass murder.
[43:58.040 --> 43:58.600]  Oh my god.
[43:58.600 --> 44:00.400]  It does sound like a revolution.
[44:00.700 --> 44:04.440]  All lamented the hours of combat in the virtual world that had been lost.
[44:06.540 --> 44:13.800]  Blizzard Entertainment said that it had closed the loophole and pledged to resurrect powerful characters killed off between December 19th and January 1st.
[44:13.900 --> 44:16.740]  Resurrection Day is January 8th, which means they should be back up now.
[44:17.160 --> 44:21.380]  The company said the dead heroes would be restored to the level they reached before the software was updated.
[44:21.380 --> 44:24.960]  It is also looking into ways to retrieve lost magic items.
[44:26.500 --> 44:27.160]  That's great.
[44:27.260 --> 44:30.980]  I want to know, when they find the people that did this, are they really going to charge them with a crime?
[44:31.200 --> 44:32.220]  They probably will.
[44:32.800 --> 44:36.500]  Is online mass murder really going to be something we're concerned about in the future?
[44:36.780 --> 44:38.080]  It's really, really funny.
[44:38.460 --> 44:39.560]  The terms are great.
[44:39.700 --> 44:40.140]  Resurrect.
[44:40.420 --> 44:40.860]  Hijacked.
[44:40.940 --> 44:50.060]  I'm just trying to picture the seriousness that went on with the players and with the people in the offices as they're really getting upset that their characters are being killed off.
[44:50.720 --> 44:54.460]  They want to take somebody out for real because of how upset they are.
[44:54.600 --> 44:54.860]  Sure.
[44:55.080 --> 44:55.960]  Happens all the time.
[44:56.120 --> 44:58.060]  I mean, it's almost as ridiculous...
[44:58.060 --> 45:05.280]  I mean, it's about as ridiculous as the nonsense that goes on with cybercrime, you know, and people playing around with things.
[45:05.580 --> 45:08.700]  Yeah, they shouldn't be playing around with them, but it is just a game to them.
[45:09.840 --> 45:11.580]  And people don't seem to realize that.
[45:11.780 --> 45:12.460]  No, not at all.
[45:12.800 --> 45:13.060]  All right.
[45:13.120 --> 45:14.380]  212-209-2900.
[45:14.600 --> 45:16.220]  Let's see a full switchboard here.
[45:16.220 --> 45:17.460]  So let's plod through.
[45:18.020 --> 45:19.640]  Let's start over here.
[45:20.260 --> 45:20.580]  Good evening.
[45:20.680 --> 45:21.160]  You're on the air.
[45:21.700 --> 45:22.280]  Yo, Emmanuel.
[45:22.520 --> 45:23.120]  It's Tommy Pickles.
[45:23.240 --> 45:23.680]  How you doing?
[45:23.880 --> 45:24.120]  Hey.
[45:24.260 --> 45:25.700]  You got some weird noise going on there.
[45:25.980 --> 45:27.960]  Yeah, well, it's the DSL connection, you know?
[45:28.220 --> 45:29.780]  Your DSL connection makes noise?
[45:30.080 --> 45:33.180]  Yeah, because the lines here in the building are so old.
[45:33.660 --> 45:34.060]  Okay.
[45:34.120 --> 45:36.420]  But you guys got the email about the birthday, right?
[45:37.260 --> 45:37.660]  Yeah.
[45:37.740 --> 45:39.720]  Well, I assume that's a private email.
[45:39.940 --> 45:41.560]  You don't want to broadcast that over the radio station.
[45:41.580 --> 45:44.540]  Tommy Pickles is now turning into an old adult.
[45:44.740 --> 45:45.500]  30 years old.
[45:46.220 --> 45:49.060]  I guess you want everybody in the world to show up.
[45:49.240 --> 45:49.300]  Okay.
[45:49.420 --> 45:50.800]  Why don't you tell everybody where it is then?
[45:51.660 --> 45:52.020]  Yeah.
[45:52.200 --> 45:53.160]  Everyone's allowed there.
[45:53.380 --> 45:55.360]  Except for, you know, of course, it's a bar.
[45:55.560 --> 45:56.500]  So 21 and over.
[45:56.640 --> 45:57.200]  Well, where is it?
[45:57.620 --> 45:58.160]  At Raven.
[45:58.960 --> 46:00.860]  12th Street and Avenue A.
[46:01.160 --> 46:01.440]  Okay.
[46:01.900 --> 46:02.360]  And that's what...
[46:02.360 --> 46:03.400]  You guys are welcome to show up.
[46:03.560 --> 46:05.540]  And the Apex DVD player.
[46:05.740 --> 46:06.000]  Yes.
[46:06.020 --> 46:07.040]  I got a 600A.
[46:07.340 --> 46:09.840]  But unfortunately, they disabled the loophole now.
[46:10.660 --> 46:11.800]  Well, when did you buy it?
[46:12.100 --> 46:13.300]  Well, it's a recent one.
[46:13.440 --> 46:15.360]  This is an August 2000 model.
[46:15.500 --> 46:15.860]  That's why.
[46:15.860 --> 46:18.080]  There are ways of modifying it, from what I hear.
[46:18.220 --> 46:18.280]  Yeah, EEPROM.
[46:18.300 --> 46:19.860]  You got to burn the EEPROM and put it in.
[46:20.000 --> 46:20.220]  Yeah.
[46:20.340 --> 46:21.800]  Oh, there are people that will do that for you.
[46:21.880 --> 46:28.860]  And speaking about DVD, because I want to make this short, the most crime now is because of that stupid iMovie.
[46:29.720 --> 46:31.960]  Did you see that in the new IMAX?
[46:32.120 --> 46:32.820]  No, I haven't.
[46:32.820 --> 46:35.400]  The new IMAX is just shipping out now.
[46:35.660 --> 46:44.600]  You can actually record DVDs through a Pioneer DVD player inside the Mac, and it's playable anywhere.
[46:45.320 --> 46:46.760]  That sounds interesting.
[46:46.980 --> 46:47.640]  That's pretty great.
[46:47.640 --> 46:48.120]  Well, let me see.
[46:48.280 --> 46:56.420]  Oh, it's a readable DVD, so let me copy those ISO files over, and let's record it back to a DVD.
[46:56.700 --> 46:57.100]  Uh-huh.
[46:57.520 --> 46:58.800]  So now I can play that anywhere.
[46:59.100 --> 47:00.820]  And region coding just is not an issue.
[47:01.020 --> 47:01.660]  Probably not.
[47:02.140 --> 47:02.780]  Okay, well...
[47:02.780 --> 47:05.600]  I've got my hands on one yet, but we're just looking at them today.
[47:05.600 --> 47:08.080]  I think some experimentation is in order for that.
[47:08.700 --> 47:09.680]  Well, get back to us.
[47:09.720 --> 47:11.660]  Let us know how it turns out.
[47:11.860 --> 47:14.760]  Hey, if I don't make it down there, have a happy birthday either way.
[47:14.900 --> 47:15.560]  Yeah, happy birthday.
[47:15.880 --> 47:16.180]  All right.
[47:16.440 --> 47:16.800]  You got it.
[47:17.300 --> 47:18.660]  212-209-2900.
[47:18.880 --> 47:19.480]  Good evening.
[47:19.580 --> 47:20.040]  You're on the air.
[47:21.040 --> 47:21.520]  Yeah, hi.
[47:21.980 --> 47:22.520]  Hi there.
[47:22.660 --> 47:34.960]  Just wanted to let people know that tomorrow morning, Wednesday, 10 o'clock in the morning on Channel 34 on your Manhattan television set, Bernard White is going to spend an hour with us.
[47:34.960 --> 47:35.620]  No kidding.
[47:35.940 --> 47:36.180]  Yep.
[47:36.380 --> 47:43.160]  Tomorrow morning, 10 a.m., Channel 34, Bernard White, in all his glory.
[47:43.360 --> 47:45.220]  I wish I could get that channel where I was.
[47:45.640 --> 47:46.120]  Where are you?
[47:46.300 --> 47:49.180]  Well, I'm on the island, and we don't get Manhattan cable out there.
[47:49.380 --> 47:50.180]  No, you get terrible.
[47:50.380 --> 47:51.500]  Yeah, we get terrible stuff.
[47:51.600 --> 47:53.360]  But who's making that?
[47:53.980 --> 47:54.820]  I don't know.
[47:55.160 --> 47:56.100]  That I don't know.
[47:57.480 --> 47:59.940]  But I told you everything I know about it.
[48:00.160 --> 48:00.580]  Okay.
[48:00.880 --> 48:01.140]  All right.
[48:01.260 --> 48:01.580]  Well, thanks.
[48:01.740 --> 48:03.980]  It's available only in Channel 34.
[48:03.980 --> 48:04.980]  I mean, only in Manhattan.
[48:05.600 --> 48:05.680]  Okay.
[48:05.760 --> 48:07.560]  Well, hopefully somebody can tape that for me and send it to me.
[48:07.640 --> 48:08.140]  I'd like to see it.
[48:08.260 --> 48:08.900]  Oh, that'd be nice.
[48:09.060 --> 48:09.240]  Yeah.
[48:09.460 --> 48:09.660]  Okay.
[48:09.660 --> 48:09.960]  Thanks.
[48:10.180 --> 48:10.340]  Bye.
[48:10.560 --> 48:10.880]  Take care.
[48:12.060 --> 48:12.560]  Good evening.
[48:12.640 --> 48:13.060]  You're on the air.
[48:13.660 --> 48:14.640]  Good evening, brothers.
[48:14.780 --> 48:15.280]  How are you?
[48:15.540 --> 48:16.560]  Well, I'm pretty good.
[48:16.560 --> 48:18.960]  It's good to know that.
[48:19.160 --> 48:21.820]  I'm very, very concerned about our predicament.
[48:21.980 --> 48:35.820]  But I wanted to raise the issue again, which is what I've opted for with no reservation, peace now, and through mandatory mediation.
[48:36.000 --> 48:37.540]  I think we have to go that way.
[48:38.040 --> 48:41.200]  Certain issues fall on the legal side, and we can't do anything about them.
[48:41.200 --> 48:44.360]  But the restoration of the family can be done.
[48:44.860 --> 48:59.400]  And I was very interested in what you read to me, brother, because I heard a section that suggested that, here again, that people of color have committed suicide against one another.
[48:59.400 --> 49:05.160]  Now, these kinds of statements just don't have any foundation in fact.
[49:05.380 --> 49:15.300]  There are not enough minorities in radio, TV, or anything else for that really to be a case where somebody could make it with any reliable standing.
[49:15.420 --> 49:18.920]  It's not like the vast majority of people in the world.
[49:18.960 --> 49:20.280]  This is not a color issue.
[49:20.460 --> 49:21.680]  It's not the vast majority.
[49:22.080 --> 49:22.600]  It's ideological.
[49:22.840 --> 49:27.800]  It's not the vast majority of people want anything of any color to happen to WBAI.
[49:27.800 --> 49:29.100]  But certain it is.
[49:30.080 --> 49:33.300]  And the time is running very, very short, brother.
[49:33.520 --> 49:54.000]  If we don't begin, and not just you, brother, but the entire audience, if we don't begin to demand peace now through binding mediation, then, quite frankly, we're going to take a hit the side of which is going to be just exactly what happened to that ship that was ported off the coast of Yemen.
[49:54.380 --> 49:55.340]  We're going to sink.
[49:55.340 --> 49:58.080]  And the bottom line is, we can't do this.
[49:58.300 --> 50:00.660]  And I'm urging Bernard White.
[50:01.500 --> 50:05.920]  I'm urging Bernard White, a man I know to be very rational.
[50:06.000 --> 50:07.880]  I know he's a professional.
[50:07.880 --> 50:10.400]  And I know that he has contributed immensely.
[50:10.820 --> 50:13.340]  I know Utrecht Leed has done the same.
[50:14.000 --> 50:20.580]  And the bottom line is, hey, look, the station is larger than the personalities.
[50:20.580 --> 50:25.180]  And the bottom line is, we cannot do this anymore with Linda Chavez.
[50:25.400 --> 50:26.980]  Thank God we defeated her today.
[50:27.380 --> 50:29.740]  We got Ashcroft to deal with next.
[50:29.820 --> 50:33.760]  He's nothing but a doggone slavery museum piece.
[50:33.920 --> 50:37.160]  He belongs in the Civil War Museum.
[50:37.920 --> 50:39.660]  We have many people to fight.
[50:40.020 --> 50:42.180]  This station now belongs to the world.
[50:42.380 --> 50:46.540]  It does not belong to the personalities because we've lost people like flies.
[50:46.780 --> 50:47.700]  We've lost Samaria.
[50:47.900 --> 50:50.500]  We've lost a lot of good people there.
[50:50.960 --> 50:51.080]  That's right.
[50:51.080 --> 50:53.820]  We don't seem to have a transitional mode.
[50:53.980 --> 51:18.320]  But if we cannot advance ourselves, and I'm urging the WBAI listeners to demand by, if indeed what we're told every time they want a nickel and a dime from us, is that this is our station, I want us to demand peace now through binding mediation for the issues that are not within the province of the Southern District Court of New York or some labor contract.
[51:18.320 --> 51:20.660]  And we can get back right on the same track.
[51:20.840 --> 51:23.080]  But if this money hits in, let me tell you something.
[51:23.240 --> 51:26.740]  I have spoken to WBAI listeners again and again.
[51:26.800 --> 51:30.500]  They are not going to give money as long as this thing is embroiled.
[51:30.660 --> 51:39.200]  And if it is the intention of any one of the personalities to suggest that, well, I'm going to take my ball and go home, that will not happen.
[51:39.520 --> 51:44.700]  And I'm very pained by this, but we have been way too long on...
[51:44.700 --> 51:48.600]  The reason has been kept hostage to passion way too long.
[51:48.880 --> 51:54.400]  We have to move on, and these vehicles and structures for resolution have to take place.
[51:54.600 --> 51:56.180]  Your show is being held up.
[51:57.840 --> 52:01.320]  Every show in the station is being held up with these inquiries.
[52:01.320 --> 52:16.340]  And I urge listeners to understand, if you want to make inquiries in 2005, you better save WBAI now, by emailing WBAI and telling WBAI, peace now, through binding resolution.
[52:17.060 --> 52:21.880]  You've got to do that, because if you do not, you will not have a WBAI you can call in to.
[52:21.880 --> 52:22.800]  That's right.
[52:22.980 --> 52:24.540]  Complacency is the worst thing.
[52:24.860 --> 52:25.000]  We're a family.
[52:25.200 --> 52:26.200]  We're not the enemy.
[52:26.440 --> 52:28.080]  We know who our enemies really are.
[52:28.080 --> 52:31.060]  The people that take you to court, do all these goofy things.
[52:31.160 --> 52:32.280]  The fascists are there.
[52:32.520 --> 52:37.540]  I have said the Fourth Reichers in the United States of America two years ago, they laughed at me.
[52:39.280 --> 52:48.760]  Now, I wonder what they think when they get an Ashcroft, a Linda Chavez, a Tommy Thompson, and that group of ideological mescreens.
[52:48.760 --> 52:53.880]  Now you see what's happening, but you don't want to keep the beacon to the people of the world alive.
[52:54.160 --> 53:04.320]  You have all these great computer people, all these great electronic people, who opened up your message to the world, but you will not call for peace now through binding mediation.
[53:04.520 --> 53:05.480]  I don't understand that.
[53:05.600 --> 53:08.500]  If we lose it, it will be the listener's fault.
[53:08.840 --> 53:09.240]  Okay.
[53:09.500 --> 53:10.580]  Hey, thanks very much for the call.
[53:10.680 --> 53:15.800]  Thanks for the good words, and thanks for the inspiration, because I think a lot of us need to hear that.
[53:16.840 --> 53:18.100]  Okay, Alex, what do you got for us?
[53:18.100 --> 53:34.940]  Well, actually, speaking of peace now, one of the things that came out of our Huntington meeting was that I would set up a mailing list so that people who were interested in helping to organize to help save WBAI could keep in contact with each other so that the discourse doesn't really have to end when the meeting ends.
[53:35.380 --> 53:40.420]  And with the help of a friend of mine today, we set up a mailing list.
[53:40.420 --> 53:57.100]  And anybody who's interested in not really just talking about WBAI, but really trying to organize and put some things into action can join the mailing list by sending an email to savewbai-list at orionlink.net.
[53:57.260 --> 54:02.500]  And orionlink.net is O-R-I-O-N-L-I-N-K.net.
[54:02.660 --> 54:07.660]  And you put the word subscribe as the body of the message, and you'll be automatically added to the list.
[54:08.440 --> 54:08.840]  Okay.
[54:09.400 --> 54:09.800]  All right, great.
[54:09.860 --> 54:19.800]  And that's one of many efforts of people seeking to stay in contact, to do something for the station and move us forward, which is what we have to do.
[54:19.960 --> 54:20.180]  Yeah.
[54:20.300 --> 54:26.640]  Also, there was another really neat thing that will hopefully come together fairly soon.
[54:27.140 --> 54:29.420]  You know who Spider Nick is, don't you, Emmanuel?
[54:29.420 --> 54:35.660]  Well, he was at the Huntington meeting, and he's trying to organize a benefit concert for WBAI.
[54:35.840 --> 54:38.960]  Of course, he's a singer of Spider Nick and the Mad Dogs, a great ska group.
[54:39.100 --> 54:43.160]  So hopefully, you know, we'll keep people informed if that ever comes together.
[54:43.500 --> 54:43.700]  Okay.
[54:43.880 --> 54:44.060]  Okay.
[54:44.060 --> 54:46.880]  And I'm sure a lot of other people are trying to organize things like that as well.
[54:48.180 --> 54:48.980]  Let's communicate.
[54:48.980 --> 54:52.580]  Let's keep it going forward because we need to.
[54:52.740 --> 54:56.640]  Like a previous caller said, if we stop, if we're complacent, we're dead.
[54:56.640 --> 54:58.860]  You know, we just will not proceed.
[54:59.040 --> 55:00.260]  We won't be around.
[55:01.200 --> 55:02.660]  So don't give up on the place.
[55:03.300 --> 55:07.120]  This is part of the process, and we have to resolve things.
[55:07.420 --> 55:07.580]  All right.
[55:07.600 --> 55:08.420]  Let's move on to another phone call.
[55:08.620 --> 55:08.880]  Good evening.
[55:08.960 --> 55:09.400]  You're on the air.
[55:10.700 --> 55:11.360]  Hello, Emmanuel?
[55:11.560 --> 55:12.000]  Yes, go ahead.
[55:12.120 --> 55:14.000]  Hi, this is Bill McNulty out in Stony Brook.
[55:14.140 --> 55:14.520]  How are you doing?
[55:14.740 --> 55:15.080]  Good.
[55:15.080 --> 55:20.200]  And I was with Alex and all those other folks that he already mentioned this past Saturday at the Huntington Cinema.
[55:20.200 --> 55:39.460]  And I wanted to let you folks know that this Thursday, between 11.30 and 1, I plan to interview Bernard White on the airwaves at WUSB, which, for the benefit of those folks who may be listening and don't know the call letters, it's 90.1 FM.
[55:39.900 --> 55:47.380]  And also is reachable on the web at www.wusb.fm, as well as .org.
[55:47.540 --> 55:49.780]  They've got a couple of good ones there.
[55:50.360 --> 55:52.160]  But, wow, Bernard White's getting out there, isn't he?
[55:52.360 --> 55:53.880]  Well, let's hope he can make the connection.
[55:54.200 --> 55:57.240]  He did tell me last week that he'd be ready to do that.
[55:57.240 --> 56:00.600]  I just reminded him today, and I will again do that tomorrow.
[56:00.600 --> 56:02.980]  So hopefully we'll set it up between those hours.
[56:03.520 --> 56:11.280]  Last week we did have Leslie Kagan on the air, and she gave a pretty good perspective of what's happening from the national level.
[56:11.460 --> 56:19.420]  So the listeners, you know, got that perspective, and hopefully Bernard will be able to fill us in on some of what's happening there at the local level.
[56:19.720 --> 56:20.140]  Okay.
[56:20.400 --> 56:21.600]  Well, thanks for your efforts.
[56:21.800 --> 56:24.760]  And I'm one of those that listens faithfully to 2600.
[56:24.980 --> 56:28.580]  And once again, hello to Alex and all your other listeners.
[56:29.040 --> 56:29.480]  Okay.
[56:29.680 --> 56:30.360]  Hey, thanks for calling.
[56:30.580 --> 56:31.260]  Okay, see you soon.
[56:31.380 --> 56:31.700]  Take care.
[56:31.740 --> 56:32.220]  We'll be listening.
[56:32.480 --> 56:33.200]  Good thing.
[56:33.980 --> 56:34.420]  All right.
[56:34.540 --> 56:35.520]  Wow, that's amazing.
[56:35.740 --> 56:36.180]  Yeah, it was.
[56:36.320 --> 56:38.540]  We just keep finding out all these new things.
[56:38.700 --> 56:39.060]  That's great.
[56:39.200 --> 56:51.020]  Again, if people hear these programs or see things, please tape them, send them in so that we can get them up on Indymedia and various other places so people who may have missed them around the world can tune in and see what's going on.
[56:51.120 --> 56:53.240]  Because this really is history in the making in many ways.
[56:53.240 --> 56:58.680]  I find it fascinating just to hear all the different commentary that has been going on over the past few weeks.
[56:58.820 --> 56:59.900]  A lot of it is very interesting.
[57:00.140 --> 57:05.100]  And, of course, we don't all agree because, you know, as any family, we differ on all kinds of things.
[57:05.480 --> 57:07.020]  And that's going to continue.
[57:07.220 --> 57:08.080]  But it's part of the process.
[57:08.200 --> 57:10.080]  You can't just walk away from that.
[57:10.840 --> 57:11.060]  Okay.
[57:11.060 --> 57:13.160]  We've got time for a couple more, hopefully.
[57:13.360 --> 57:13.620]  Good evening.
[57:13.680 --> 57:14.140]  You're on the air.
[57:14.660 --> 57:14.840]  Hello.
[57:15.440 --> 57:16.440]  Oh, let me turn my radio down.
[57:16.440 --> 57:18.060]  Yeah, you want to turn your radio down, definitely.
[57:19.660 --> 57:20.120]  Feedback.
[57:20.840 --> 57:21.200]  Hello?
[57:21.480 --> 57:22.000]  Yes, go ahead.
[57:22.160 --> 57:28.560]  Okay, yeah, that article from Newsday you read, Lynn Samuels also has that on her website.
[57:29.260 --> 57:33.260]  Okay, Lynn Samuels, former producer here at WBAI, now with WABC.
[57:33.600 --> 57:35.880]  Right, yeah, it's lynnsamuels.com.
[57:35.880 --> 57:39.420]  So you can find that article on her website.
[57:39.620 --> 57:39.900]  Great.
[57:40.500 --> 57:40.840]  Okay?
[57:40.840 --> 57:41.760]  Okay, thanks for calling.
[57:41.880 --> 57:42.100]  Okay.
[57:43.160 --> 57:45.020]  And let's see if we can squeeze in one more.
[57:45.180 --> 57:45.540]  Let's go down here.
[57:45.620 --> 57:45.880]  Good evening.
[57:45.940 --> 57:46.400]  You're on the air.
[57:46.940 --> 57:48.140]  Hi, Emmanuel Pogarin here.
[57:48.180 --> 57:48.540]  How are you?
[57:48.640 --> 57:49.020]  How are you doing?
[57:49.140 --> 57:49.260]  Good.
[57:49.400 --> 57:50.940]  You're talking about access control.
[57:50.940 --> 57:55.580]  And we've been getting a lot of reports now from different places, like here and in the U.K.
[57:55.700 --> 58:00.620]  and in Finland and stuff, of service providers who are blocking ports to third-party services.
[58:01.160 --> 58:10.420]  For example, we hear that Earthlink is blocking port 25, so their dial-up users cannot access third-party SMTP servers.
[58:11.260 --> 58:14.200]  And as well as DNS, they're blocking port 53.
[58:15.020 --> 58:17.280]  And Verizon is blocking...
[58:17.280 --> 58:24.520]  If you use their software to connect with their DSL service, you are forced to use their DNS.
[58:25.580 --> 58:28.540]  And this is coming in also from Finland and the U.K.
[58:28.560 --> 58:33.540]  as well in terms of the providers forcing you to use their proxy or their services.
[58:33.760 --> 58:35.700]  How recently has this started happening?
[58:35.900 --> 58:42.140]  Pretty recently, actually, because we provide third-party email service for a lot of people who we host their domains and websites for.
[58:42.540 --> 58:48.940]  And we've been getting complaints from people not being able to send outgoing mail starting just about six, eight weeks ago.
[58:49.040 --> 58:51.180]  Have they given any kind of explanation for this?
[58:51.300 --> 58:51.620]  No.
[58:52.040 --> 58:56.320]  As far as I know, the customers haven't contacted the service providers, but we've been getting...
[58:56.320 --> 59:03.920]  Even one of the engineers that worked with us was out in Chicago dialing in through his in-law's Earthlink connection.
[59:04.280 --> 59:06.720]  And, I mean, this guy's a programmer, and he knows what he's doing.
[59:06.780 --> 59:08.540]  He could not send out through port 25.
[59:08.880 --> 59:10.040]  Well, that's totally insane.
[59:10.040 --> 59:14.300]  People need to contact those companies and complain to high holy hell about this.
[59:14.300 --> 59:27.220]  What we're doing, actually, is now I want to begin collecting information from anybody out there who is getting blocked from any third-party access, whether it's DNS or mail or anything else, from their access providers.
[59:27.680 --> 59:39.700]  And if they can send a mail to info at name-space.com and just put in the header, you know, something to do with access blocked or something like that.
[59:39.700 --> 59:41.640]  We want to put a report together.
[59:41.960 --> 59:47.240]  And also, if people go to reclaimthe.net, there's a message board link up there.
[59:48.080 --> 59:49.760]  And we're collecting any comments.
[59:50.000 --> 59:53.500]  People have anything to say about, you know, port blocking.
[59:53.680 --> 59:53.960]  Okay.
[59:54.080 --> 59:54.820]  Hey, we're out of time.
[59:55.120 --> 59:56.040]  Thanks for the info.
[59:56.160 --> 59:56.160]  All right.
[59:56.160 --> 59:56.160]  Good luck.
[59:56.160 --> 59:56.400]  Good hearing you.
[59:56.480 --> 59:56.680]  Take care.
[59:56.680 --> 59:56.860]  All right.
[59:56.960 --> 59:57.320]  Take care.
[59:57.900 --> 01:00:00.420]  Well, we are out of time for this show.
[01:00:00.920 --> 01:00:01.780]  AutoJack, you still there?
[01:00:02.160 --> 01:00:02.520]  Yep.
[01:00:02.740 --> 01:00:02.940]  Okay.
[01:00:03.020 --> 01:00:07.980]  Well, thanks very much for your participation and for continuing to write music.
[01:00:07.980 --> 01:00:10.980]  Hopefully, that will express feelings of lots of people around here.
[01:00:11.400 --> 01:00:19.080]  And I just want to thank you for helping to keep the signal out there in different ways other than just over the air.
[01:00:19.260 --> 01:00:19.820]  No problem.
[01:00:19.960 --> 01:00:25.500]  And for continuing to keep off the hook, going to many different sites around the world week after week.
[01:00:25.860 --> 01:00:31.900]  And, Alex, thank you for your efforts on the island and for continuing to keep people informed in various ways.
[01:00:32.060 --> 01:00:32.500]  My pleasure.
[01:00:32.740 --> 01:00:36.760]  We'll be back again next week with all kinds of other news of things that are going on.
[01:00:36.760 --> 01:00:38.020]  Until then, Emmanuel Goldstein.
[01:00:38.160 --> 01:00:38.560]  Have a good night.
[01:00:38.840 --> 01:00:54.940]  Cut myself while shaving Now I can't make a cough It couldn't get much worse But if they could, they would Bombilibon But the best it's made from worse I hope that's understood Bombilibon
[01:01:04.400 --> 01:01:25.240]  Hola, mis amigos oyentes This is Chico Alvarez thanking you, the listeners for keeping the New World Gallery on air here at 99.5 on the FM dial We're still alive and kicking And by the way, you can check us out on WBAI.org Your continued support helps us to educate the world Stay with us,
[01:01:25.340 --> 01:01:26.800]  please We need you
[01:01:34.090 --> 01:01:51.410]  Hi, this is Len Wineglass I'm counsel for Mumyabu Jamal And I'd like to say that when I'm in town I certainly listen to WBAI And when I'm out of town I reach it on WBAI.org Best of luck to you And keep up the good work Thanks for listening You