[00:00.510 --> 00:03.910]  Oh, musically, what I only suspect.
[00:04.330 --> 00:09.110]  Only over WBAI 99.5 on your FM radio tune-up.
[00:17.500 --> 00:26.520]  On Friday, March 30th, Earth Celebrations hosts its 11th annual Rites of Spring Benefit Cocktail and Dance Party.
[00:26.520 --> 00:37.200]  This spectacular evening supports Earth Celebrations and its educational and arts programs, as well as its work to preserve the community gardens of New York City.
[00:37.540 --> 00:46.880]  It all takes place at the Spa Nightclub at 76 East 13th Street between Broadway and 4th Avenue, Friday the 30th.
[00:47.200 --> 00:50.620]  Cocktail and performances begin at 7 p.m.
[00:50.760 --> 00:53.900]  with the dance party to commence at 8.30.
[00:54.180 --> 01:02.920]  For more information and to buy advance tickets to the event, you can call 212-777-7969.
[01:02.920 --> 01:03.440]  That's 6-9.
[01:03.660 --> 01:07.900]  That's 2-1-2-7-7-7-7-9-6-9.
[01:08.460 --> 01:16.480]  This has been a public service announcement by WBAI on behalf of Earth Celebrations, a not-for-profit organization.
[01:23.420 --> 01:25.120]  And it's 8 o'clock on a Tuesday night.
[01:25.260 --> 01:26.740]  You're listening to WBAI in New York.
[01:26.860 --> 01:27.900]  Time for Off the Hook.
[01:34.260 --> 01:45.620]  The telephone keeps ringing So I ripped it off the wall I cut myself while shaving Now I can't make a cough Good,
[01:50.160 --> 01:56.380]  bum-dilly-bum But the best expect from worst I hope that's understood Bum-dilly-bum
[02:15.050 --> 02:32.250]  We're marching out the old towards the new century Armed with the new technology We're getting more and more productivity Some say things looking up for prosperity But if everyone going to share this time Well, mentality must get left behind
[02:38.350 --> 02:57.780]  We want the shorter working day Give it the shorter working week Longer holiday We need decent fee More time for leisure More time for pleasure More time for edification More time for recreation More time for contemplate More time for ruminate More time We need more time Doing more time
[03:02.320 --> 03:11.120]  A full-time them abolish unemployment And revolutionize labor deployment A full time then banish over time.
[03:11.500 --> 03:14.120]  Make everybody get a work this time.
[03:14.940 --> 03:17.140]  We need a higher quality of liberty.
[03:17.700 --> 03:19.500]  We need it now and for everybody.
[03:26.330 --> 03:28.190]  We need the shorter work in here.
[03:28.310 --> 03:29.830]  Give it the shorter work in life.
[03:30.150 --> 03:31.410]  More time for the husband.
[03:31.710 --> 03:32.810]  More time for the wife.
[03:33.130 --> 03:34.390]  More time for the children.
[03:34.730 --> 03:35.910]  More time for withrending.
[03:36.090 --> 03:37.030]  More time for meditating.
[03:37.450 --> 03:38.610]  More time for creating.
[03:38.830 --> 03:40.210]  More time for living.
[03:40.410 --> 03:41.710]  More time for life.
[03:41.850 --> 03:42.530]  More time.
[03:42.530 --> 03:44.010]  We need more time.
[03:44.570 --> 03:45.450]  We need more time.
[03:51.540 --> 03:53.580]  You're listening to Radio Station WBAI in New York.
[03:53.700 --> 03:54.700]  This is Off the Hook.
[03:54.820 --> 03:55.800]  Emmanuel Goldstein here with you.
[03:55.860 --> 03:56.540]  Isaac over there.
[03:56.660 --> 03:57.320]  Mike over here.
[03:58.180 --> 03:59.100]  And what's up?
[03:59.220 --> 04:00.400]  Regular cast of characters.
[04:00.820 --> 04:01.520]  Yeah, pretty regular.
[04:01.680 --> 04:02.040]  Pretty regular.
[04:02.460 --> 04:03.380]  And Dave also joins us.
[04:03.420 --> 04:03.700]  Hey, Dave.
[04:04.560 --> 04:04.900]  Hey.
[04:05.200 --> 04:06.180]  Well, he's just a regular.
[04:06.520 --> 04:08.920]  Yeah, that's all he can say for the entire show, actually.
[04:10.460 --> 04:14.220]  So, it's been an interesting week, as always, in the world of technology.
[04:14.340 --> 04:15.740]  All kinds of fun things happening.
[04:15.740 --> 04:17.780]  I think you have a special little number there.
[04:17.980 --> 04:18.340]  Yes.
[04:18.540 --> 04:19.140]  What's that all about?
[04:20.060 --> 04:21.320]  This is the illegal number.
[04:22.420 --> 04:23.840]  Four, eight, five, six...
[04:23.840 --> 04:25.460]  Well, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop.
[04:25.640 --> 04:27.380]  You're not going to read the illegal number on the air now.
[04:27.640 --> 04:28.100]  I'm sorry.
[04:28.100 --> 04:29.720]  I didn't realize I shouldn't be doing that.
[04:30.300 --> 04:31.500]  What's going to do your head here?
[04:31.620 --> 04:32.540]  No, that's a...
[04:32.540 --> 04:33.700]  Well, tell us what the number is.
[04:33.920 --> 04:34.880]  Don't say the number.
[04:35.780 --> 04:36.500]  Good Lord.
[04:36.600 --> 04:44.180]  As I presume our audience knows, when you store information in a computer, it gets stored as a string of bits, ones and zeros.
[04:44.180 --> 04:48.540]  Well, you can convert that long string of 1s and 0s to base 10.
[04:50.360 --> 04:54.720]  For instance, instead of a 1 and a 0, you have all the digits between 0 and 9.
[04:55.180 --> 04:58.360]  And evidently, that's what this fellow here did.
[04:58.680 --> 05:10.740]  He looked at the memory for the DVD scramble or code, DECSS, and decided to turn it into a number, which it basically is.
[05:11.140 --> 05:12.480]  And this is it.
[05:12.480 --> 05:21.160]  So, it's been theorized that this number is illegal to distribute, considering that the DECSS code is illegal to distribute.
[05:21.180 --> 05:21.800]  It's that simple.
[05:22.480 --> 05:23.960]  It all boils down to a number.
[05:24.140 --> 05:24.500]  Couldn't tell.
[05:24.560 --> 05:26.040]  Well, that's what it comes down to, yeah.
[05:26.700 --> 05:27.580]  Very long numbers.
[05:27.880 --> 05:28.480]  It's a computer.
[05:28.640 --> 05:30.400]  Okay, read one number out of it.
[05:31.360 --> 05:31.920]  One number?
[05:32.060 --> 05:33.320]  You mean one digit out of this number?
[05:33.320 --> 05:33.500]  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[05:33.620 --> 05:33.920]  Come on.
[05:34.020 --> 05:34.220]  Come on.
[05:34.920 --> 05:35.940]  Before somebody hears us.
[05:36.020 --> 05:36.340]  Five.
[05:36.600 --> 05:37.160]  All right, all right.
[05:37.680 --> 05:41.000]  Never say that we are not on the cutting edge here on Off the Hook.
[05:41.000 --> 05:43.140]  All right, there's a digit of the illegal number.
[05:43.900 --> 05:45.800]  How many digits total is that number?
[05:46.720 --> 05:47.860]  I honestly don't recall.
[05:48.160 --> 05:49.580]  I could count them if you like.
[05:49.820 --> 05:51.760]  Yeah, why don't you do that while I go on with the show?
[05:51.840 --> 05:52.060]  Okay.
[05:52.220 --> 05:53.700]  And everybody will be happy that way.
[05:55.100 --> 06:02.360]  Okay, we've had... there's actually a lot of things that we haven't been updating people on because, well, things have been frantic over the last few weeks.
[06:02.380 --> 06:04.400]  One week I wasn't... I was sort of half here.
[06:04.560 --> 06:07.560]  The other week we were preempted, and last week we were trying to catch up.
[06:07.560 --> 06:11.060]  But there's still a lot that we need to update people on.
[06:11.140 --> 06:12.620]  And, of course, we'll be taking phone calls as well.
[06:13.200 --> 06:21.840]  One of the things that I thought was pretty interesting that happened actually earlier in the month was concerning the DECSS lawsuit.
[06:22.300 --> 06:26.900]  And this has been posted on our website and updated in various other places as well.
[06:26.900 --> 06:32.100]  Well, a bunch of people joined in against us on the appeal.
[06:32.260 --> 06:34.620]  We talked about the Department of Justice being one of those entities.
[06:34.780 --> 06:37.400]  But, you know, there were a whole lot of other entities that did this as well.
[06:38.200 --> 06:40.920]  And it's really kind of mind-boggling how this happened.
[06:41.080 --> 06:55.960]  Of course, for those unfamiliar, the Motion Picture Association of America, along with all the people, all the organizations that make films, Time Warner, or, you know, big films, Disney, Paramount, all of Viacom, you know, the big major corporations that run everything in the country,
[06:56.180 --> 07:09.040]  they all joined the suit against us because we posted the source code for the DECSS program, which basically allows people to view DVDs on Linux machines as well as get around things like region coding.
[07:09.600 --> 07:18.800]  Of course, the same media, the media that's owned by the same people, reported it as a pirating case, as being about copying DVDs, which is not what it's about at all.
[07:18.900 --> 07:22.640]  But we lost that case last year, back in August.
[07:22.900 --> 07:24.000]  We're appealing it now.
[07:24.100 --> 07:27.120]  We expect it to be heard sometime in May, I'm told now.
[07:28.580 --> 07:34.560]  And earlier this year, the Department of Justice joined in the appeal against us, joined the MPAA side.
[07:34.560 --> 07:40.900]  And, more recently, 26 other organizations, of which I still have not gotten the complete list.
[07:40.960 --> 07:42.840]  If anyone out there has a complete list, please send it to me.
[07:43.560 --> 07:46.860]  But some of the groups that joined were kind of surprising.
[07:47.120 --> 07:49.620]  The National Football League...
[07:50.220 --> 07:51.580]  You're being sued by the NFL.
[07:51.580 --> 07:54.280]  The NFL has joined in the lawsuit against us.
[07:54.420 --> 07:59.280]  Yes, they've taken the MPAA side, along with the National Hockey League as well.
[07:59.460 --> 08:03.080]  Now, I don't think the NBA is involved in this yet, I don't think.
[08:03.080 --> 08:05.180]  But the NCAA is.
[08:05.360 --> 08:09.200]  So we're being sued by the NPA, the NCAA, and God knows what else.
[08:11.060 --> 08:13.600]  And the Screen Actors Guild, they've joined in.
[08:14.720 --> 08:17.360]  Well, that seems a little more reasonable than the NFL.
[08:17.680 --> 08:21.200]  Yeah, I kind of expect a group like that to take that side.
[08:21.540 --> 08:26.440]  The Business Software Alliance, the American Society of Composers, Authors, and Publishers.
[08:26.440 --> 08:34.020]  Of course, I don't think they really represent many actual artists and composers and authors and people like that.
[08:34.040 --> 08:38.920]  I think they represent the businesses that like to make the money off them, yes.
[08:39.340 --> 08:40.420]  Speaking of which...
[08:40.420 --> 08:43.280]  Now, that's a daunting thing right there to know that...
[08:43.280 --> 08:48.180]  I mean, you know, after last year, you know, being sued by all these major entities...
[08:48.180 --> 08:52.680]  Every time we did a news interview, we'd have to tell the reporter, you know, your company is suing us.
[08:53.600 --> 08:54.680]  But now, it's...
[08:54.680 --> 08:57.300]  You know, the NFL, for God's sake, how do you face off against them?
[08:57.420 --> 08:58.360]  But not the XFL.
[08:58.820 --> 08:59.140]  No.
[08:59.360 --> 09:00.140]  I think they're just...
[09:00.140 --> 09:01.080]  They're too busy trying...
[09:01.080 --> 09:02.360]  Are they owned by someone else?
[09:02.500 --> 09:02.940]  Are they?
[09:03.680 --> 09:04.420]  Someone owns them.
[09:04.740 --> 09:05.440]  I think you're right.
[09:05.560 --> 09:06.260]  I think somebody does own them.
[09:06.320 --> 09:07.620]  Well, that person may be suing you.
[09:07.700 --> 09:08.440]  So there goes that.
[09:08.600 --> 09:10.460]  It's 1,401 digits, by the way.
[09:10.600 --> 09:11.860]  You just counted that many numbers?
[09:12.000 --> 09:13.040]  Well, it's a matrix.
[09:13.220 --> 09:14.240]  I counted across.
[09:19.880 --> 09:25.820]  And some newspapers, some online papers, actually have been linking to this.
[09:25.940 --> 09:32.060]  I don't know if they're aware that by doing this, they are violating the Digital Millennium Copyright Act.
[09:32.920 --> 09:33.620]  Oh, that's right.
[09:33.680 --> 09:35.060]  They're linking to you, and thereby linking...
[09:35.060 --> 09:35.320]  Well, no.
[09:35.400 --> 09:37.020]  Actually, they weren't linking to us.
[09:37.180 --> 09:44.980]  They were linking to that number, which does not appear on our website anywhere, at least not intentionally.
[09:46.800 --> 09:48.760]  And in so doing, they're in violation.
[09:49.500 --> 09:56.140]  They also linked to other sites that had other versions of the DCSS source code on there.
[09:58.080 --> 09:58.800]  So, yeah.
[09:58.920 --> 09:59.180]  So, okay.
[09:59.220 --> 10:03.720]  We're being sued by the NFL as well, and the NHL, and all those other groups, and 26 in total.
[10:04.540 --> 10:12.060]  Now, speaking of music, making money, that kind of thing, a federal judge has cleared the way for an online music search service to sue the record industry.
[10:12.120 --> 10:13.540]  This is a bit of a switch.
[10:13.900 --> 10:14.020]  Interesting.
[10:14.240 --> 10:20.140]  Potentially providing legal shelter for search engines that link to infringing material on the web, according to legal experts.
[10:20.340 --> 10:32.780]  The suit seeks damages over a 10-day blackout imposed on MP3 board after its internet service provider received notice of alleged copyright violations from the recording industry Association of America, known as the RIAA.
[10:33.180 --> 10:36.640]  In a decision last month that was first made public on Friday, U.S.
[10:36.900 --> 10:41.680]  District Court Judge Sidney Stein denied the RIAA's motion to dismiss the suit.
[10:41.680 --> 10:54.760]  Although Napster has attracted huge attention with its legal fight against the recording industry, this case has also felt the heat of the spotlight because it could set a precedent for the role of internet search engines that hyperlink to certain websites,
[10:54.920 --> 10:57.260]  by making linking illegal.
[10:57.700 --> 11:01.420]  Isn't what Napster does essentially provide a search service?
[11:01.420 --> 11:03.340]  That's the point I've been trying to make for months, yes.
[11:03.440 --> 11:05.400]  It's basically telling you where you find things.
[11:05.600 --> 11:07.860]  There is no pirated music on Napster.
[11:08.060 --> 11:10.760]  They simply tell you where things can be found.
[11:10.800 --> 11:15.620]  And if that happens to be a pirated thing, I happen to think that's between the people that are doing the pirating.
[11:15.800 --> 11:19.900]  You know, it's kind of like a, you know, a private transaction that may or may not be illegal.
[11:19.900 --> 11:22.840]  That's what a reasonable person would reach as a conclusion.
[11:23.540 --> 11:25.080]  That's a veiled compliment, isn't it?
[11:25.240 --> 11:25.460]  Yes.
[11:26.940 --> 11:37.080]  Anyway, legal experts said it could also set limits on the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, which gives ISPs wide authority to police alleged infringement under its notice and takedown provisions.
[11:37.420 --> 11:45.640]  This case is good news for search engines, said Whitney Brossard, an intellectual property attorney at Silver and Mandelbaum in Mintz.
[11:46.080 --> 11:58.340]  Basically, the court is making it clear to copyright owners that if they're going to be sending takedown notices, takedown notices, oh, they have to do it in compliance with the DMCA and that if they send notices frivolously, they might be subjected to damages.
[11:58.620 --> 12:01.000]  So people are starting to fight back.
[12:01.520 --> 12:02.320]  A takedown notice.
[12:02.500 --> 12:05.920]  So they'll send John Markoff out in a little minivan to like sit in front of your house.
[12:06.000 --> 12:06.380]  That's right.
[12:06.660 --> 12:06.920]  Wow.
[12:08.700 --> 12:11.680]  This case will be brought to trial the week of May 23rd.
[12:11.880 --> 12:13.380]  So it's going to be an interesting month, May.
[12:13.780 --> 12:15.660]  All kinds of legal things will be going on.
[12:16.500 --> 12:19.780]  The advertisement on that news story is larger than the text.
[12:20.940 --> 12:22.100]  What about the advertisement?
[12:22.680 --> 12:23.420]  It's huge.
[12:23.720 --> 12:23.860]  Yeah.
[12:23.920 --> 12:24.900]  What is the advertisement?
[12:25.120 --> 12:25.660]  I don't know.
[12:25.880 --> 12:28.660]  I think it's... I'm not sure what that is, actually.
[12:28.660 --> 12:32.720]  It was some kind of weird flash thing that showed up.
[12:32.780 --> 12:33.920]  Obviously highly effective.
[12:34.120 --> 12:34.280]  Yeah.
[12:34.380 --> 12:35.320]  Well, I didn't even look at it.
[12:36.880 --> 12:37.280]  Okay.
[12:37.280 --> 12:37.880]  What else?
[12:38.840 --> 12:43.640]  We've got the Digital Agenda Act in Australia.
[12:43.760 --> 12:44.540]  Did we talk about that at all?
[12:44.800 --> 12:45.900]  A little bit.
[12:46.200 --> 12:46.300]  Yeah.
[12:46.420 --> 12:53.920]  Well, that got passed, I think, last year sometime and it went into effect on March 5th, I believe, of this year.
[12:54.180 --> 12:54.720]  That sounds familiar.
[12:55.140 --> 13:05.440]  And according to legal experts, it's actually possible that forwarding someone's email without permission is a violation of the Digital Agenda Act.
[13:05.560 --> 13:12.440]  It could result in a prison sentence of five years or a fine of $60,000 Australian dollars, which is about $31,000 U.S.
[13:12.540 --> 13:12.740]  dollars.
[13:14.240 --> 13:17.500]  So, the insanity is spreading all throughout the world now.
[13:18.280 --> 13:21.600]  Technically possibly sent to prison for forwarding email without permission.
[13:21.620 --> 13:29.380]  That's because when you compose an email, according to this, you have a copyright of some sort and that copyright has to be respected.
[13:29.520 --> 13:30.020]  I'll tell you this.
[13:30.240 --> 13:33.920]  Anybody who sends me email, I can give it to whoever I damn well please.
[13:34.540 --> 13:37.320]  And that's just my personal values kicking in there.
[13:37.420 --> 13:38.380]  You received the work.
[13:38.620 --> 13:39.200]  It's yours.
[13:39.400 --> 13:40.840]  It was sent to me, you know?
[13:41.140 --> 13:44.680]  Can you imagine getting spam from somebody saying, you're not allowed to show this to anybody?
[13:44.800 --> 13:45.540]  This is copywritten?
[13:45.760 --> 13:46.720]  Come on already.
[13:47.380 --> 13:48.700]  Where are our senses going?
[13:50.040 --> 13:53.920]  So, uh, that's, uh, that's pretty, uh, silly stuff right there.
[13:54.260 --> 13:59.820]  There's another case going on, um, that, uh, I don't know if you've heard about this.
[13:59.920 --> 14:08.940]  This poor guy somewhere, I think in Philadelphia, is being charged $16,000 by a service provider because his website brought in a little bit too much traffic.
[14:09.920 --> 14:11.520]  Yeah, it's called Nosepilot.
[14:11.600 --> 14:20.020]  If you go to www.nosepilot.com, uh, you'll see this whole horror story, uh, um, unfolding.
[14:20.600 --> 14:24.040]  Um, all of a sudden I owe my service provider over $16,000.
[14:24.040 --> 14:27.380]  I had no idea the traffic to my site had exploded so much.
[14:27.460 --> 14:31.020]  They're trying to tell me that they called me when it exploded and I never talked to them.
[14:31.760 --> 14:39.440]  Uh, but, uh, apparently they, they kept him connected and, and, and by some bizarre contract.
[14:39.840 --> 14:40.940]  How did they justify that?
[14:41.040 --> 14:48.460]  Was there a contractual obligation to provide this guy with service above and beyond for a certain amount of, uh, it might've been hidden in the contract somewhere.
[14:48.620 --> 14:52.920]  According to this, it says if, if he went over a certain amount of traffic, he paid seven cents per megabyte.
[14:53.940 --> 14:57.760]  Um, so, uh, wow, you can buy hard drives for less.
[14:57.960 --> 14:59.180]  Yeah, that's, that's definitely true.
[14:59.520 --> 15:01.820]  You gotta be really careful who you sign on with here.
[15:01.940 --> 15:11.140]  But, uh, I think in this particular case, the company that, uh, that was responsible for this, and I think I have their name somewhere around here.
[15:12.280 --> 15:14.440]  Uh, yeah, they're Global Internet Solutions.
[15:14.680 --> 15:15.400]  Do you know anything about them?
[15:16.060 --> 15:16.180]  No.
[15:16.480 --> 15:18.180]  All right, pull the file on Global Internet Solutions.
[15:18.520 --> 15:20.180]  Uh, we'll know something about them in a little while.
[15:20.340 --> 15:22.160]  They're in, uh, Los Angeles, California.
[15:22.500 --> 15:28.200]  Uh, they sent a letter saying this letter dated, uh, March 7th, 2001 is to be served as a legal document.
[15:28.520 --> 15:32.740]  Our record showed there was an outstanding balance of $16,243.85.
[15:33.760 --> 15:40.020]  Total bandwidth usage for the last 30 days, 234,055.08 megabytes.
[15:40.240 --> 15:42.880]  Your monthly bandwidth allowance, 2000 megabytes.
[15:44.780 --> 15:50.400]  Exceeded bandwidth, 232,055.08 megabytes at 7 cents per megabyte.
[15:50.480 --> 15:57.720]  Your outstanding balance of $16,243.85 must be paid in full by the end of your term, which is the 30th of this month.
[15:57.900 --> 16:02.540]  If this balance is not paid in full, we will take whatever further action is necessary to collect payment.
[16:03.220 --> 16:06.960]  Thank you for your concern, your cooperation concerning this matter.
[16:07.460 --> 16:09.840]  Uh, I love the way this is signed.
[16:09.920 --> 16:10.740]  It's signed Victor.
[16:12.260 --> 16:14.040]  No last name at all.
[16:14.440 --> 16:19.260]  Sincerely, Victor, ID number 747, Global Internet Solutions Legal Department.
[16:19.580 --> 16:22.380]  Now, is it Global Internet Solutions or Global Internet Business Solutions?
[16:22.380 --> 16:24.940]  Um, it could be Global Internet Business Solutions as well.
[16:25.140 --> 16:26.760]  Because I have a Global Internet Business Solutions.
[16:26.760 --> 16:27.240]  Well, it's GIS.
[16:27.540 --> 16:29.020]  Look, there's the letterhead.
[16:29.200 --> 16:30.300]  Oh, this is GIBS.
[16:30.440 --> 16:33.420]  Yeah, why don't you take the letterhead over there and see if you can match it to a website.
[16:33.640 --> 16:33.840]  Sure.
[16:34.020 --> 16:36.200]  And we'll, uh, we'll follow dossier on these people.
[16:36.500 --> 16:40.340]  But, uh, folks, when you're, when you're out there signing contracts, you gotta be really careful who you sign them with.
[16:40.460 --> 16:43.220]  You gotta look at the fine print because they can, they can screw you like this.
[16:43.700 --> 16:50.760]  You know, it, I don't think this guy is gonna be held liable in the end because, you know, fortunately enough people are taking an interest to kind of, like, scream about it.
[16:51.040 --> 16:58.100]  I mean, it's, it's... if somebody is getting that kind of traffic and it's, like, causing you problems and you're a provider, you do something about it.
[16:58.120 --> 17:00.620]  You don't just let it keep happening and then build a person a huge amount.
[17:00.760 --> 17:02.940]  Obviously, something went wrong here.
[17:03.080 --> 17:05.980]  And I think his site just has, like, animations of a cat or something.
[17:06.060 --> 17:08.120]  So I don't really know what the big draw was.
[17:09.160 --> 17:14.900]  So, uh, hopefully that will, uh, go away and people won't be, uh, suffering like this anymore.
[17:16.240 --> 17:17.260]  Uh, what else?
[17:17.440 --> 17:18.220]  HAL 2001.
[17:18.380 --> 17:20.900]  Uh, that's, uh, the big hacker event of the year.
[17:21.120 --> 17:22.160]  Uh, you guys go into that?
[17:22.460 --> 17:23.220]  I hope so.
[17:23.400 --> 17:24.020]  I hope so, too.
[17:24.220 --> 17:24.840]  Hope to see you there.
[17:25.000 --> 17:34.440]  Set up my tent and... Yeah, well, it's basically, it's in the tradition of HEU, hackers at the end of the universe, and the, uh, CCC camp back in 1999.
[17:35.560 --> 17:36.880]  And, uh, what was the other one?
[17:37.060 --> 17:38.580]  Well, the Galactic Hacker Party was 1989.
[17:38.720 --> 17:43.120]  There was, uh, HIP, Hacking in Progress, which took place at the same time as Beyond Help here in New York.
[17:43.920 --> 17:45.000]  Uh, HAL is Hacking at Large.
[17:45.220 --> 17:50.240]  Uh, 2001 takes place in Holland, uh, between August 10th and 12th of this year.
[17:51.260 --> 18:04.260]  And, um, we will have ticket sales on our website, so you can, uh, actually, uh, um, figure out how to get over there and, and, and participate in what's definitely a unique hacker experience.
[18:04.260 --> 18:06.940]  It's not like, uh, like the kinds of things you see here in the States.
[18:07.480 --> 18:14.720]  Uh, so we'll have more information about that, but that's definitely taking place, um, August 10th through 12th in Holland, which, uh, is not hard to get to.
[18:15.240 --> 18:18.180]  And you'll come back with all kinds of inspiration like I always do.
[18:18.420 --> 18:19.700]  You're not going to be able to drive, though.
[18:20.060 --> 18:20.500]  Why not?
[18:20.640 --> 18:21.920]  If you have a car over there, you can drive.
[18:22.100 --> 18:23.280]  You can't drive to there.
[18:23.360 --> 18:24.300]  No, you shouldn't want to.
[18:24.420 --> 18:24.960]  Yeah, that's what I'm getting at.
[18:25.080 --> 18:29.120]  But, um, I'll tell you, every time I go over there, I get ideas to do more things.
[18:29.560 --> 18:32.600]  So, um, I recommend it to everybody.
[18:33.880 --> 18:34.860]  Uh, what else?
[18:35.000 --> 18:35.880]  Did you find out more about these guys?
[18:35.880 --> 18:38.960]  Yeah, I found them, and their site's kind of slim.
[18:39.360 --> 18:39.600]  Uh-huh.
[18:39.840 --> 18:40.480]  Uh, but...
[18:40.480 --> 18:41.460]  I mean, that's why they need the money.
[18:41.660 --> 18:44.300]  Well, I'm greatly enjoying the front page, though.
[18:44.480 --> 18:47.100]  In quotes, I suppose this is their business motive.
[18:47.300 --> 18:49.940]  It said, appropriate, cost-effective solutions.
[18:51.420 --> 18:51.860]  Okay.
[18:53.260 --> 18:56.420]  Considering that they're running around charging people, what is it, $16,000?
[18:57.460 --> 18:58.520]  That's cost-effective.
[18:58.680 --> 19:01.020]  Yeah, that's appropriate and cost-effective.
[19:01.320 --> 19:03.040]  They're, uh, living to their own motto there.
[19:03.780 --> 19:04.860]  Uh, they're in Los Angeles, right?
[19:06.500 --> 19:07.140]  Uh, yes.
[19:07.400 --> 19:07.560]  Okay.
[19:08.520 --> 19:24.800]  Well, hopefully, uh, people will call these guys and tell them to lay off the little people and, uh, have some, uh, some kind of, uh, maybe, uh, you know, I guess, access levels, or, you know, if something goes crazy like that, they, uh, they, they put a stop to it so people don't get charged up their wazoo.
[19:26.520 --> 19:27.020]  All right.
[19:27.360 --> 19:28.600]  Uh, what else do we have here?
[19:29.360 --> 19:30.860]  A bus, do you hear about the story?
[19:30.920 --> 19:35.020]  A busboy allegedly masterminded the largest theft of identities in internet history.
[19:35.220 --> 19:35.640]  Yes, I do.
[19:35.740 --> 19:41.540]  And is suspected of stealing millions of dollars from some of the richest people in America, according to officials who, uh, said this today.
[19:42.400 --> 19:58.100]  Um, they, uh, said high school dropout Abraham Abdallah duped more than 200 chief executive officers listed in Forbes magazine by skillfully using computers in New York libraries to obtain credit records of such luminaries as Microsoft co-founder Paul Allen,
[19:58.340 --> 20:00.740]  director Steven Spielberg, and CNN founder Ted Turner.
[20:01.280 --> 20:08.760]  Uh, he was originally indicted in New York State Supreme Court in Brooklyn earlier this month on a string of fraud and impersonation charges, but the case has been taken over by federal authorities.
[20:09.300 --> 20:11.760]  Uh, his attorney could not immediately be reached for comment.
[20:11.940 --> 20:19.960]  Uh, they say they arrested Abdallah on February 23rd after pursuing him for six months as he insulated himself from detection by using web-enabled cell phones.
[20:20.480 --> 20:21.700]  Yeah, that's the latest threat.
[20:22.300 --> 20:25.580]  Web-enabled cell phones, virtual voicemail, and other elusive tactics.
[20:26.080 --> 20:26.740]  Oh, no.
[20:26.940 --> 20:31.940]  He was everywhere, pretending to be everyone, when he was really in New York, sometimes working in a restaurant kitchen.
[20:31.980 --> 20:34.900]  If he stole all this money, why did he need to work in a restaurant kitchen?
[20:35.920 --> 20:39.460]  Ah, that's, uh, police sources quoted as saying that in the New York Post.
[20:40.420 --> 20:42.360]  Long heralded for its, uh, accurate stories.
[20:43.060 --> 20:55.260]  Um, police allege that Abdallah breached the bank, brokerage, and credit card accounts of tycoons and celebrities such as Spielberg, Turner, Allen, and financiers George Soros and Warren Buffet, the fourth richest man in the world.
[20:55.280 --> 20:57.280]  At least he's stealing from the right people, you know?
[20:57.860 --> 20:59.940]  He's not stealing from some poor person someplace.
[21:00.580 --> 21:01.780]  Why does it make the difference?
[21:02.100 --> 21:05.380]  Well, I just think, you know, if, if, it tells something about somebody's motives, all right?
[21:05.400 --> 21:09.580]  If they go after Bill Gates, and the fourth largest, uh, four richest man in the world.
[21:09.700 --> 21:16.040]  The Post story says that, uh, he skipped number one on the Forbes list, Bill Gates, perhaps feeling he was too well-known, sources said.
[21:16.280 --> 21:17.900]  Well, he is pretty well-known.
[21:18.300 --> 21:18.720]  All right.
[21:19.060 --> 21:20.720]  But we'll go after guys like Ted Turner.
[21:20.860 --> 21:20.880]  Come on.
[21:20.880 --> 21:26.820]  Other victims included Disney CEO Michael Eisner, media mogul Oprah Winfrey, and Viacom CEO Sumner Redstone.
[21:26.960 --> 21:27.240]  Come on.
[21:27.240 --> 21:28.060]  Did you mention Ross Perot?
[21:28.320 --> 21:29.340]  Ross Perot's not in here.
[21:29.460 --> 21:30.140]  Ross Perot's on here.
[21:30.140 --> 21:30.420]  Is he?
[21:30.560 --> 21:30.720]  Okay.
[21:31.780 --> 21:34.400]  What, he, he, he, got his identity or something?
[21:34.480 --> 21:34.700]  Is that it?
[21:34.860 --> 21:40.360]  After his arrest, cops recovered a dog-eared copy of Last Fall's Forbes 400 Richest People in America.
[21:41.320 --> 21:42.780]  I have 500 here.
[21:43.080 --> 21:43.620]  Oh, 500?
[21:43.920 --> 21:44.100]  Yeah.
[21:44.340 --> 21:54.560]  They allege that he found names of the country's wealthiest people in Forbes magazine and used computers in Brooklyn libraries to contact credit reporting companies to obtain confidential information about them.
[21:55.280 --> 22:08.940]  Uh, the busboy was, uh, alleged to have impersonated his targets to make phone calls about transactions to banks and brokerage such as Goldman Sachs, Bear Stearns, Merrill Lynch, and Fidelity Investments, leaving callback numbers linked to virtual voice mailboxes in their home cities.
[22:08.940 --> 22:10.480]  How stupid are these people?
[22:10.580 --> 22:12.740]  That's, that's all it takes to get around security?
[22:13.120 --> 22:14.040]  Leave fake phone numbers?
[22:14.160 --> 22:16.940]  I mean, come on, these are tactics that have been used back in the 80s, for God's sake.
[22:17.060 --> 22:18.000]  There's a reason they work.
[22:18.660 --> 22:20.600]  Yeah, but there should be a reason they still work.
[22:20.700 --> 22:28.140]  I mean, we're talking about the most powerful people in the world, and what, you can just leave a fake phone number and, and have money transferred to various accounts based on that?
[22:28.940 --> 22:29.300]  Unbelievable.
[22:29.460 --> 22:37.900]  Authorities alleged that he used a cell phone to retrieve messages left in the voicemail boxes and faxes to rent mailboxes in his victims' names, paying for them with stolen credit card numbers.
[22:38.940 --> 22:44.560]  Oh boy, that dollar allegedly paid couriers to collect packages ordered in his victims' names.
[22:44.880 --> 22:50.900]  About the only thing missing here is a link to bin Laden and child pornography, but I'm sure that'll come in the next edition of the Post.
[22:51.320 --> 22:58.740]  The New York Police Department is still trying to unravel a voluminous electronic trail to determine exactly how much he allegedly stole.
[22:58.860 --> 23:00.700]  They fear it could be well into the millions.
[23:01.400 --> 23:08.840]  He's the best I ever faced, Detective Michael Fabozzi of the NYPD's Computer Investigation and Technology Unit was quoted as saying in the New York Post.
[23:09.260 --> 23:15.180]  His colleague, Detective Jamal Dace, said, You rarely run into someone this good.
[23:15.580 --> 23:17.080]  I respect his skills.
[23:17.840 --> 23:20.900]  No, he didn't say that, but it was definitely on his mind.
[23:21.940 --> 23:29.760]  He was caught when detectives arranged a sting operation, sending a package of equipment used to manufacture and magnetize credit cards to a bogus address.
[23:30.560 --> 23:35.480]  When Abdallah arrived to collect the package in an expensive 2000 Volvo, he was arrested.
[23:36.920 --> 23:42.240]  Fabozzi told the Post he had to jump through the sunroof of the car to subdue and handcuff Abdallah as he tried to speed away.
[23:42.560 --> 23:43.480]  That must have been...
[23:43.480 --> 23:44.000]  That's amusing.
[23:44.260 --> 23:46.380]  ...a story to tell back at the station house later on.
[23:46.580 --> 23:53.820]  But in the entire original Post article, they not once mentioned the word hacker, which I think they need to be quoted for.
[23:53.820 --> 23:54.780]  Well, that's kind of good, I guess.
[23:55.040 --> 23:55.320]  Yeah.
[23:55.620 --> 23:58.140]  According to CNN, though, there's a second person involved.
[23:58.580 --> 24:02.900]  Michael Puglis was involved in this as well.
[24:04.180 --> 24:06.800]  Two suspects were arrested earlier this month in a police sting.
[24:06.940 --> 24:12.360]  They were found with about $100,000 worth of computer hardware and software, plus funds diverted from some of the celebrities.
[24:13.640 --> 24:16.880]  I just find it interesting that they didn't mention the second guy anywhere else.
[24:18.460 --> 24:18.900]  Yeah.
[24:19.340 --> 24:22.600]  They just mentioned his name here, but they don't give any more details.
[24:23.480 --> 24:24.880]  So that's quite a story.
[24:25.260 --> 24:27.720]  And that's a thousand times worse than anything Kevin Mitnick did.
[24:28.180 --> 24:32.320]  Not that I think these guys should wind up in prison for, what, 5,000 years as a result.
[24:33.560 --> 24:35.200]  But just put some perspective.
[24:35.340 --> 24:39.120]  But really, to me, it tells you how insecure things are.
[24:39.120 --> 24:46.960]  How they continue to be insecure, how stupidity always seems to define how much information gets out.
[24:47.040 --> 24:51.680]  Now, imagine if information about people of that stature can be compromised that easily.
[24:51.820 --> 24:58.140]  Imagine lowlifes like us, how our information is able to be obtained and passed around and manipulated.
[24:58.140 --> 25:04.660]  The alternative to that, which has been proposed, was the Know Your Customer program that the banks were supposed to be engaging in.
[25:04.720 --> 25:04.940]  Right.
[25:05.040 --> 25:11.040]  So that you get an idea of what your customer is supposed to be doing so as to prevent these fraudulent charges of this nature.
[25:11.040 --> 25:11.660]  My bank knows me.
[25:11.700 --> 25:12.720]  I don't have to fill out forms.
[25:12.780 --> 25:13.720]  I walk in and say, I need money.
[25:13.760 --> 25:14.300]  They say, how much?
[25:14.320 --> 25:14.920]  And they give it to me.
[25:15.320 --> 25:15.640]  Well.
[25:16.000 --> 25:16.560]  It's friendly.
[25:16.740 --> 25:22.680]  The point I'm trying to make is, on the other side, you have all the privacy advocates running around saying, no, you can't track us like this.
[25:23.060 --> 25:31.640]  So where is this middle ground where we're preventing crime from occurring and yet not handing over all our privacy?
[25:32.280 --> 25:33.840]  It still needs to be found.
[25:33.960 --> 25:35.100]  It's that undiscovered country.
[25:35.820 --> 25:38.200]  I mentioned libraries in this.
[25:38.700 --> 25:42.960]  I mentioned Brooklyn Libraries, where this guy did his dirty work from.
[25:43.080 --> 25:44.620]  He read magazines in libraries.
[25:44.620 --> 25:46.360]  He accessed the Internet through libraries.
[25:46.360 --> 25:55.040]  You heard about this latest thing that is really in the news a lot today called the Children's Internet Protection Act.
[25:55.180 --> 25:55.740]  You guys heard about this?
[25:55.900 --> 25:56.080]  Yes.
[25:56.560 --> 25:57.960]  Now, this is interesting.
[25:58.880 --> 26:07.340]  A coalition of public libraries, library patrons, and website operators today filed suit in U.S.
[26:07.520 --> 26:18.020]  court against this law, I guess, that protects children, allegedly protects children from exposure to Internet pornography in public libraries and schools.
[26:19.140 --> 26:24.320]  They filed two separate constitutional challenges to the Children's Internet Protection Act in U.S.
[26:24.360 --> 26:25.120]  court in Philadelphia.
[26:25.540 --> 26:26.760]  It was passed by Congress.
[26:26.900 --> 26:30.720]  CIPA was passed by Congress and signed into law by former President Bill Clinton in December.
[26:30.720 --> 26:39.460]  It requires public libraries and schools to install pornography-blocking software on computers or risk losing hundreds of millions of dollars in federal funds and assistance.
[26:40.060 --> 26:42.360]  We call that extortion in the real world.
[26:42.540 --> 26:43.480]  Yeah, but, Isaac, come on.
[26:43.540 --> 26:45.740]  Why should kids be looking at pornography in public libraries?
[26:46.520 --> 26:49.540]  I'm astounded that you would think that that kind of a thing should be tolerated.
[26:49.540 --> 26:50.240]  They shouldn't.
[26:50.300 --> 26:52.120]  However, a law is not going to prevent that.
[26:52.300 --> 26:56.420]  It's an issue of the parents being able to instill upon their child a certain moral code.
[26:56.420 --> 26:57.700]  The kids are in the library.
[26:57.700 --> 27:01.840]  The parents are at home or, you know, at soccer practice with the other kids.
[27:02.100 --> 27:06.820]  Well, if the parents have a problem with their kids going around on the Internet alone, maybe they should be watching their kids when they go to the library.
[27:06.840 --> 27:07.920]  The public library?
[27:08.120 --> 27:09.000]  The public library?
[27:09.140 --> 27:13.600]  Should that be the place where kids have their first taste of pornography on the net?
[27:13.680 --> 27:14.060]  I mean, come on.
[27:14.140 --> 27:17.360]  That should be, I think, a library, for God's sake.
[27:18.900 --> 27:19.880]  You're senior citizens.
[27:20.040 --> 27:20.900]  What about them, you know?
[27:20.940 --> 27:21.920]  You've got to protect them as well.
[27:22.940 --> 27:25.480]  Why does everyone expect someone else to protect them?
[27:25.720 --> 27:26.320]  Nah, never mind.
[27:26.320 --> 27:27.840]  I'm not going to go on down the floor.
[27:27.840 --> 27:31.540]  All right, well, you know, the question here is, what do you do about this?
[27:31.640 --> 27:32.840]  Why, okay, why is it bad?
[27:33.020 --> 27:33.940]  I'm asking you right now.
[27:34.060 --> 27:34.280]  Why is it bad?
[27:34.280 --> 27:40.180]  Why is it bad to put a filter on a browser in a library to prevent somebody from accessing pornography?
[27:40.200 --> 27:44.640]  It seems totally reasonable that pornography should not be something that's looked at in a library, right?
[27:45.420 --> 27:47.860]  Well, it's a reasonable conclusion to reach.
[27:47.960 --> 27:48.120]  Okay.
[27:48.120 --> 27:52.680]  Some people might be offended by looking over and seeing an image like that on the screen.
[27:52.940 --> 27:53.060]  So?
[27:53.060 --> 27:53.920]  On with the filters, right?
[27:53.940 --> 27:54.620]  Put the filters on.
[27:54.680 --> 27:55.160]  What's wrong with that?
[27:55.220 --> 27:57.260]  What about people who are doing research?
[27:57.840 --> 27:58.500]  On pornography?
[27:59.220 --> 28:00.220]  Also, uh...
[28:00.220 --> 28:01.480]  Hardcore pornography in the libraries?
[28:01.620 --> 28:02.200]  You never know.
[28:02.380 --> 28:06.260]  But most of these filters do not only catch hardcore pornography.
[28:06.560 --> 28:08.000]  Ah, now this is interesting.
[28:08.180 --> 28:13.220]  You're saying that in addition to catching hardcore pornography, these filters might catch something else?
[28:13.220 --> 28:13.740]  Like, what?
[28:13.960 --> 28:14.820]  Softcore pornography?
[28:14.820 --> 28:15.120]  What?
[28:15.480 --> 28:19.140]  Uh, for example, some filters have been known to filter sites on breast cancer.
[28:19.400 --> 28:20.200]  Breast cancer?
[28:20.780 --> 28:22.660]  Because that's apparently subversive.
[28:23.120 --> 28:23.520]  Okay.
[28:23.900 --> 28:24.820]  Yeah, that's interesting.
[28:25.160 --> 28:26.180]  Well, there are breasts involved.
[28:26.680 --> 28:27.440]  You know...
[28:27.440 --> 28:28.240]  So, you're...
[28:28.240 --> 28:30.760]  Okay, you're basically saying that this is kind of a slippery slope.
[28:30.920 --> 28:34.060]  That once you start filtering one thing, other things get filtered as well?
[28:34.940 --> 28:35.460]  Yes.
[28:35.660 --> 28:40.360]  And furthermore, you have a very limited number of companies that make this filtering software.
[28:40.720 --> 28:44.580]  Their filtered lists are kept closely guarded secrets.
[28:44.820 --> 28:48.240]  Yeah, I remember what happened when somebody figured out how to get the filtered list and they got sued for...
[28:48.240 --> 28:48.980]  They got sued, right?
[28:49.180 --> 28:49.460]  Yeah.
[28:50.600 --> 28:59.220]  And you essentially have to trust the moral judgment of the automated systems these companies create to look for bad websites.
[28:59.240 --> 29:02.260]  Now, do you remember when we went to Easy Everywhere or Easy Everything, whatever that place is called?
[29:02.480 --> 29:03.660]  And they filtered us?
[29:03.820 --> 29:04.920]  They filtered 2600.com?
[29:04.920 --> 29:07.740]  Well, we kind of figured that that was bizarre.
[29:07.880 --> 29:09.360]  That was a weird turn of events.
[29:09.580 --> 29:09.720]  It was.
[29:10.020 --> 29:10.320]  When the machine crashed.
[29:10.320 --> 29:11.620]  Well, there was some technical reason.
[29:11.740 --> 29:11.780]  Yeah.
[29:12.140 --> 29:15.440]  But there was definitely some setting in there that intentionally blocked us.
[29:15.560 --> 29:17.720]  Whether or not it was active, it was in there at some point.
[29:18.240 --> 29:21.080]  I remember the feeling of outrage that we would be blocked.
[29:21.460 --> 29:22.920]  We don't have anything to do with pornography.
[29:23.280 --> 29:24.760]  You know, we don't have anything to do with illegal activity.
[29:24.760 --> 29:26.520]  But for some reason, we were blocked anyway.
[29:26.880 --> 29:30.960]  Now, when I look more into this story, I see that it's not just pornography.
[29:30.960 --> 29:37.380]  It's also things that are harmful to minors, things that are objectionable in other ways.
[29:37.920 --> 29:46.260]  So while you see all the headlines talking about access to pornography, this is actually a much bigger thing that is being introduced.
[29:46.460 --> 29:46.800]  Oh, no doubt.
[29:46.940 --> 29:49.940]  Where all kinds of objectionable material is being...
[29:51.340 --> 29:54.500]  Our kids are being protected from seeing it, you know?
[29:54.640 --> 29:58.260]  And who would object to something so rational and reasonable?
[29:58.880 --> 30:03.060]  Well, I think there might be some very good reasons why people should object to this kind of a thing.
[30:04.140 --> 30:09.260]  For one thing, a library is perfectly capable of enforcing their own policies.
[30:09.600 --> 30:09.920]  Yes.
[30:10.180 --> 30:14.220]  And saying that anyone caught looking at pornography, for instance, we kicked out of the library.
[30:14.360 --> 30:16.100]  You know, how hard is it to enforce something like that?
[30:16.180 --> 30:16.800]  It's entirely reasonable.
[30:16.880 --> 30:19.140]  We don't think that our libraries are capable of that?
[30:19.220 --> 30:20.400]  We don't think our libraries can say...
[30:20.840 --> 30:21.020]  No.
[30:21.320 --> 30:23.600]  Actually, we think our libraries are far more capable.
[30:23.600 --> 30:35.980]  We think that our libraries can be turned into these wonderful Nerf worlds where we can send our children, unsupervised, to not hit any of the sharp edges or anything else that is out there in the magical land we call reality.
[30:37.220 --> 30:45.760]  We expect a lot from our libraries if we are intending to provide them with certain millions of dollars in exchange for them installing filtering software.
[30:45.940 --> 30:46.960]  I think that's unreasonable.
[30:46.960 --> 30:57.400]  You go there to perform research and things like that, and to expect them to be a little playground for your kid is entirely unreasonable.
[30:58.380 --> 31:02.540]  Well, it's definitely an interesting story and something that I think we're going to have...
[31:02.540 --> 31:03.500]  Yes, Dave, you have something for us.
[31:03.980 --> 31:07.120]  There's also an adult section for books in the library.
[31:07.640 --> 31:08.360]  That's true.
[31:08.580 --> 31:12.540]  And you can ask for copies of Playboy and other magazines like that.
[31:12.540 --> 31:12.760]  Really?
[31:12.820 --> 31:13.660]  In the libraries you can do that?
[31:13.740 --> 31:13.960]  Sure.
[31:13.960 --> 31:17.920]  If they have a subscription, but they're not out on the shelves for someone to immediately see.
[31:17.940 --> 31:19.940]  It's not like the adult section of a video store, though, is it?
[31:20.100 --> 31:21.860]  It's, you know, slightly different than that.
[31:21.940 --> 31:24.860]  Well, I mean, you know, when you go into the adult section of a video store, you don't just see...
[31:25.240 --> 31:33.300]  You have a bunch of bookcases that have blank backs, and you have to walk in in one particular way, and you can't simply look over your shoulder and see some nude form.
[31:35.220 --> 31:36.600]  I don't think my library has that.
[31:37.060 --> 31:37.840]  Well, some do.
[31:37.900 --> 31:39.900]  Maybe you should inquire if you're really interested in that kind of thing.
[31:39.920 --> 31:41.480]  Yeah, and I'll be blacklisted from that point on.
[31:43.960 --> 31:47.700]  Mark Crainage, president of the American Library Association, which represents 61,000 U.S.
[31:47.840 --> 31:58.880]  public, academic, special, and school libraries, says, these companies will not say what sites they block, and they have been known to block the Democratic Party, but not the Republican Party, and groups like Handgun Control, but not the National Rifle Association.
[31:59.460 --> 31:59.820]  Interesting.
[32:00.080 --> 32:01.540]  Well, talk about harmful to minors.
[32:01.580 --> 32:02.280]  Yeah, wait a second.
[32:03.160 --> 32:03.800]  Hold on.
[32:03.900 --> 32:05.420]  What is this point they're trying to make?
[32:05.520 --> 32:08.260]  Well, I think that's just something that has happened.
[32:08.280 --> 32:08.740]  I don't know.
[32:08.820 --> 32:09.680]  I don't know why it happens.
[32:09.680 --> 32:12.080]  You can choose other examples, you know.
[32:12.520 --> 32:18.420]  This isn't a debate we want to get into, but I would argue that handguns are much more harmful to minors than pornography.
[32:18.580 --> 32:21.360]  No, buckets are far more harmful to minors than handguns.
[32:21.700 --> 32:28.620]  Well, I'm sure the National Bucket Association will be writing us to object to your remarks there, but let's finish up with this, and I'll take some phone calls.
[32:29.600 --> 32:32.980]  CIPA supporters led by Arizona Republican Senator John McCain, remember him?
[32:32.980 --> 32:34.360]  And Republican U.S.
[32:34.940 --> 32:41.420]  Representative Ernest Istook of Oklahoma say they are well prepared for a new constitutional battle over Internet censorship.
[32:41.660 --> 32:48.120]  In a statement released on Monday, McCain said the law does not require any specific filtering technology, nor does it dictate what materials should be filtered out.
[32:48.200 --> 32:52.240]  It simply ensures that schools and libraries have faced...
[32:52.240 --> 32:53.860]  I'm sorry, I read the wrong paragraph.
[32:54.040 --> 33:00.340]  It simply ensures that schools and libraries across the country have the material they need to protect children from harmful material on the Internet.
[33:01.080 --> 33:03.720]  But, you know, I think the material they need is in their heads.
[33:03.920 --> 33:08.840]  Why is the library responsible for protecting children from what's out there on the Internet?
[33:09.020 --> 33:11.220]  I still can't wrap my mind around that.
[33:11.260 --> 33:14.860]  It's because, you know, in order to get these federal funds, they have to play ball.
[33:16.260 --> 33:20.980]  What I'd like to know is, how would they go about checking, you know?
[33:20.980 --> 33:21.220]  What do you mean?
[33:21.420 --> 33:29.800]  Well, I guess one way that the library would prove that they're complying is to show a receipt for the software that they, I guess, had to buy.
[33:30.360 --> 33:32.760]  But how do you know that they're actually using it?
[33:32.840 --> 33:39.200]  Oh, you take some FBI agent off a case where he's supposed to be trying to round up terrorists And you have them go to a library and try to find pornography.
[33:39.340 --> 33:40.360]  Go to penthouse.com.
[33:40.480 --> 33:40.680]  Right.
[33:40.820 --> 33:41.500]  I mean, that's incredible.
[33:41.580 --> 33:42.440]  And it's penthouse.com.
[33:42.500 --> 33:43.500]  That's considered pornography, huh?
[33:43.860 --> 33:44.520]  I don't know.
[33:44.600 --> 33:45.800]  I just pulled something out of thin air.
[33:45.980 --> 33:47.200]  See, somebody has to make these decisions.
[33:47.340 --> 33:49.540]  Somebody has to say, well, this side is pornographic, this side isn't.
[33:49.580 --> 33:51.080]  And how in the world do you find them all?
[33:51.200 --> 33:51.900]  How do you do that?
[33:52.000 --> 33:52.600]  You can't.
[33:52.700 --> 33:53.700]  Yeah, you cannot do it.
[33:53.740 --> 33:55.400]  Any six-year-old can figure out ways around this.
[33:55.400 --> 33:59.240]  And by making this into such an issue, you're going to make these people want to do this.
[33:59.520 --> 34:04.620]  It's time to tell the parents, hey, listen, you're responsible for your child's upbringing.
[34:05.120 --> 34:11.640]  Don't expect this entire complex structure to be imposed upon reality in order to safeguard your child.
[34:11.700 --> 34:13.520]  Or maybe it's time to keep kids out of libraries.
[34:14.080 --> 34:15.580]  And off the net, too, you know?
[34:15.680 --> 34:16.400]  They're just ruining everything.
[34:16.400 --> 34:19.740]  I think we should just lock them up in basements and, like, never let them out.
[34:19.740 --> 34:21.660]  Because it's such a dangerous world out there.
[34:21.660 --> 34:23.080]  At least give it a try, you know?
[34:24.840 --> 34:25.160]  What?
[34:25.540 --> 34:26.520]  Oh, locking in basements?
[34:26.580 --> 34:26.800]  Yeah, why not?
[34:26.960 --> 34:27.460]  Well, you know.
[34:28.020 --> 34:29.440]  Giving everything else a try, might as well do that.
[34:30.400 --> 34:32.540]  Okay, some listener mail, then we'll take phone calls.
[34:32.600 --> 34:34.140]  212-209-2900.
[34:34.980 --> 34:35.580]  You're off the hook.
[34:35.680 --> 34:38.880]  I've set your web page to my default in the browser.
[34:39.020 --> 34:40.660]  I enjoy reading the new news updates and such.
[34:40.660 --> 34:43.320]  However, there have been no updates since March 14th.
[34:43.680 --> 34:45.780]  If you stopped updating in fear that no one reads the articles.
[34:45.900 --> 34:46.320]  Well, I do.
[34:46.460 --> 34:48.740]  Please don't force me to set my default to CNN.com.
[34:49.940 --> 34:53.380]  Well, yes, actually, there have not been updates in the last, I think, almost two weeks.
[34:53.460 --> 34:57.560]  And the reason for that is because we've been really busy with the spring issue, working on that.
[34:57.860 --> 34:59.560]  Yeah, there was this whole magazine thing that you did.
[34:59.600 --> 35:00.200]  Yeah, unfortunately.
[35:00.340 --> 35:06.220]  And we tried to make that clear when we launched the site, which, you know, we had hoped to have, like, three or four different news stories a day pop up on that site.
[35:06.380 --> 35:09.140]  It takes time to write these things, to find these things.
[35:09.140 --> 35:12.960]  And if you want to help us out, by all means, you know, send us your contributions.
[35:13.980 --> 35:16.900]  And there's something on the main web page to submit stories.
[35:17.800 --> 35:20.280]  The more we get, the more we can do things with.
[35:20.960 --> 35:22.080]  But, yeah, it does take time.
[35:22.080 --> 35:24.380]  We're trying to expand in a somewhat reasonable manner.
[35:26.200 --> 35:29.460]  So we'll go back to it as soon as the issue is done, which hopefully will be this week.
[35:29.460 --> 35:32.580]  And then we can focus on other things as well.
[35:32.660 --> 35:33.720]  But that's always what it is.
[35:33.760 --> 35:34.300]  It's always just...
[35:34.300 --> 35:35.960]  There's only so many hours in a day.
[35:37.200 --> 35:39.960]  And you're, you know, you have to let something...
[35:39.960 --> 35:41.560]  Something fall apart as a result.
[35:44.160 --> 35:45.960]  Here's a letter somebody wrote to the Computer World.
[35:46.700 --> 35:50.440]  Dear Computer World, I am sick and tired of all these articles giving hackers a bad name.
[35:50.520 --> 35:55.760]  One article I'm referring to is in the March 20th, 2001 edition of Computer World on page 6.
[35:55.760 --> 35:59.840]  The article is entitled, FBI Investigating Eastern European Hacker Break-Ins.
[36:00.320 --> 36:07.300]  Yes, I will agree that these systems were hacked into, but I completely disagree with the way that Dan Verton, the author of this article, pins the stealing of credit cards on hackers.
[36:07.700 --> 36:08.680]  This is unacceptable.
[36:09.420 --> 36:11.780]  Let me repost an article I read recently in 2600.
[36:11.960 --> 36:17.400]  And he reposted the editorial piece that we have on our web page called, Will the Media Ever Get It Right?
[36:18.520 --> 36:19.660]  Which I won't read here.
[36:20.680 --> 36:26.120]  But he goes on to say, Hackers are not criminals or bank robbers, as most of the credit card stealing articles I've read like to infer.
[36:26.500 --> 36:30.480]  Yet criminals, to get the credit card numbers, used hacking as a tool.
[36:30.680 --> 36:31.440]  This guy gets it.
[36:31.720 --> 36:40.400]  The third from the last paragraph of Dan Verton's article states that the hacker groups target customer data, when in reality it should have read the crime organizations target customer data.
[36:40.400 --> 36:45.520]  How many hacker groups do you know that go around, you know, targeting customer data?
[36:45.700 --> 36:49.280]  You know, it's like, I've known hacker groups for ages now.
[36:50.280 --> 36:53.600]  And most of the time, they try to figure out how to make something print.
[36:55.240 --> 36:57.860]  And that really takes a lot longer than most people think it takes.
[36:59.420 --> 37:02.760]  Please take into account that many of your readers are hackers in the true sense of the word.
[37:02.940 --> 37:06.260]  We do not like to be bunched into the same group as criminals and other such miscreants.
[37:07.900 --> 37:09.000]  That's an SAT word.
[37:09.460 --> 37:09.820]  Yes.
[37:10.120 --> 37:15.340]  And you notice this guy doesn't use the stupid word cracker either, which is just, you know, another way of doing the same thing.
[37:15.340 --> 37:16.640]  That's something to have with wine and cheese.
[37:16.820 --> 37:17.160]  Exactly.
[37:19.280 --> 37:20.840]  Therefore, all dogs must have spots.
[37:21.160 --> 37:22.960]  Do you see where I'm going with this misconception?
[37:23.760 --> 37:29.740]  All I ask is that you please have your authors do a little research before they blindly use people groups they do not truly understand.
[37:30.040 --> 37:32.920]  You are also considered media, and you shape what people think about the world.
[37:33.140 --> 37:37.440]  Please do not give us hackers a bad name when it is the criminals using hacking that are the culprits to blame.
[37:38.000 --> 37:39.280]  And that is signed G.I.
[37:39.340 --> 37:39.580]  Joe.
[37:40.640 --> 37:43.160]  Which, uh, I'm sure isn't his real name anyway.
[37:43.740 --> 37:46.360]  But of course, by using a fake name, that means he must be a criminal, right?
[37:46.620 --> 37:47.000]  Of course.
[37:47.000 --> 37:48.020]  Yeah, that's what the media says.
[37:48.880 --> 37:51.660]  Why are you trying to hide if you, if you...
[37:51.660 --> 37:52.300]  Oh, what is it?
[37:52.520 --> 37:54.480]  I can't even remember their same slogans anymore.
[37:54.500 --> 37:55.720]  I don't understand this letter here.
[37:55.900 --> 37:56.780]  What letter would that be?
[37:57.300 --> 37:58.640]  You prove my point daily.
[37:58.760 --> 37:59.260]  I like you guys.
[37:59.380 --> 37:59.760]  Really, I do.
[37:59.880 --> 38:01.080]  But you are so full of yourselves.
[38:01.300 --> 38:04.300]  On a recent show, you guys predicted Napster would be dead.
[38:04.820 --> 38:10.860]  You don't even believe in the crap you are spewing, or you would know that there is nothing that the government can do that can kill Napster or anyone else.
[38:11.360 --> 38:18.160]  As you can see, changing one word in the song title is sufficient to defeat the stupid filter they have now and still return current hits, correct hits in the search.
[38:18.540 --> 38:20.840]  You guys are weak, propaganda-pushing soapboxers.
[38:20.940 --> 38:21.420]  Blame others.
[38:21.540 --> 38:22.660]  That's what it's about to you.
[38:23.040 --> 38:25.380]  Have you ever written any software to do a better job than Windows?
[38:25.580 --> 38:27.360]  Have you ever come up with a better system than capitalism?
[38:27.500 --> 38:27.880]  Go to school.
[38:27.960 --> 38:28.340]  Get a job.
[38:28.420 --> 38:29.280]  Do something with your lives.
[38:29.740 --> 38:34.240]  First of all, when did we say that Napster was dead?
[38:34.280 --> 38:39.640]  All we said was that Napster is not the end-all, be-all of free trading of music.
[38:39.900 --> 38:42.560]  Well, I think we announced it dead when that ruling came down.
[38:42.720 --> 38:44.340]  It was the death knell for Napster.
[38:44.460 --> 38:52.900]  Yeah, the death knell for Napster, perhaps, as an entity, but not the death knell for trading MP3s and freely sharing things on the Internet.
[38:52.900 --> 38:53.800]  You can't stop that.
[38:53.820 --> 38:54.420]  That's what we say.
[38:54.500 --> 38:56.220]  We say the same things this letter says.
[38:56.320 --> 38:58.980]  We say that the government cannot stop this kind of stuff.
[38:59.820 --> 39:08.900]  And Napster, right now, has turned more into a tracker, an entity that goes out there and tries to find people that are trading things that are deemed illegal by the RAA.
[39:10.300 --> 39:11.480]  And that's not going to work.
[39:11.660 --> 39:12.640]  It's just not going to work at all.
[39:12.700 --> 39:14.680]  Napster is going to turn into something that it was not.
[39:15.380 --> 39:17.180]  And something else will come along and take its place.
[39:17.260 --> 39:18.280]  Have you ever used something called Amster?
[39:19.020 --> 39:19.820]  I've heard of it.
[39:20.020 --> 39:23.300]  Evidently, it's like Napster, but over AOL's Instant Messenger.
[39:23.480 --> 39:24.180]  Do you know about this?
[39:24.300 --> 39:25.500]  I don't know anything more than that.
[39:25.540 --> 39:27.840]  Okay, maybe somebody can update us, because I haven't used it.
[39:27.880 --> 39:28.640]  I don't use these programs.
[39:28.640 --> 39:33.760]  There's a whole slew of those things out there, and half of them are, you know, not even well-thought-out protocols.
[39:33.940 --> 39:34.240]  Right.
[39:34.400 --> 39:34.860]  Maybe free net.
[39:35.060 --> 39:38.520]  Which just means that somebody else will come along and do a better job.
[39:40.820 --> 39:42.520]  Okay, do we have anything else here?
[39:43.680 --> 39:45.360]  I've got three quick stories, if you want to.
[39:45.580 --> 39:48.460]  If they're really quick, because we've got a full switchboard of phones here.
[39:48.580 --> 39:50.040]  212-209-2900.
[39:50.480 --> 39:51.100]  Mir-related.
[39:51.320 --> 39:52.460]  You hear about Taco Bell?
[39:53.140 --> 39:54.400]  It's going to crash into a Taco Bell?
[39:54.560 --> 39:59.060]  No, they set a 40-foot-by-40-foot sign out into the middle of the South Pacific.
[39:59.320 --> 40:00.320]  It's a bullseye.
[40:00.480 --> 40:00.640]  Oh, boy.
[40:00.640 --> 40:02.000]  It says, free taco here.
[40:02.160 --> 40:07.580]  So if Mir hits the bullseye, they're going to give free taco to everyone in the United States.
[40:07.580 --> 40:09.540]  Who's going to clean up the mess when it hits them?
[40:09.540 --> 40:17.720]  Well, I don't know about the mess, but they have an insurance company that's backing them to actually, you know, bear the costs of all those free tacos.
[40:17.960 --> 40:20.600]  There's an international Taco Bell boycott going on.
[40:20.720 --> 40:21.160]  There is?
[40:21.260 --> 40:22.220]  I don't know anything about it.
[40:22.240 --> 40:22.780]  Well, golly.
[40:22.920 --> 40:26.580]  But you can get your free taco and thereby not have to worry about the boycott.
[40:27.600 --> 40:32.200]  Other one was NEMA, the National Imagery and Mapping Association.
[40:35.840 --> 40:39.980]  It seems to think they located the Mars Lander.
[40:40.140 --> 40:40.820]  Oh, the missing one.
[40:40.940 --> 40:42.060]  Yeah, the missing Mars Lander.
[40:42.640 --> 40:44.900]  They've been looking for it since December of 99.
[40:45.240 --> 40:46.440]  Was it on the wrong planet or something?
[40:46.620 --> 40:47.500]  No, it's on Mars.
[40:47.620 --> 40:54.220]  But they've been going over some of the imagery that NASA had given them, and they think they've managed to locate it, but they can't quite be sure.
[40:54.680 --> 40:57.220]  And the other one was Dennis Tito.
[40:57.620 --> 40:58.340]  Heard of this gentleman?
[40:58.560 --> 41:00.920]  Is he related to the Tito of Yugoslavia fame?
[41:00.920 --> 41:14.660]  I don't know, but he's supposed to be the third man on a crew due to launch from the Cosmodrome in Russia as a taxi to the International Space Station at the end of April.
[41:14.960 --> 41:22.340]  So these three guys show up at NASA, and they're ready to go through some of the training for the American parts of the station.
[41:23.600 --> 41:25.580]  And they tried splitting them up.
[41:25.900 --> 41:27.640]  Tito is not a cosmonaut.
[41:27.640 --> 41:31.980]  But Tito is just a fellow who happened to have the dollars and decided he wanted to go for a ride.
[41:33.760 --> 41:36.380]  So Russians said, all right, let's put him up there.
[41:36.640 --> 41:38.620]  And NASA is still very shaky about it.
[41:38.660 --> 41:39.960]  They don't think he's trained well enough.
[41:40.080 --> 41:42.680]  They don't know who has liability if he manages to get dead.
[41:43.960 --> 41:46.920]  And at present, he's still grounded.
[41:47.440 --> 41:49.800]  Okay, well, that's an interesting story.
[41:49.800 --> 41:50.680]  We're all pulling for him.
[41:50.860 --> 41:51.040]  Yeah.
[41:52.380 --> 41:57.280]  I actually saw the International Space Station last Tuesday night after the show.
[41:57.420 --> 41:57.640]  You did?
[41:57.800 --> 41:57.920]  Yeah.
[41:58.140 --> 41:59.500]  I happened to be out in New Jersey.
[42:00.260 --> 42:01.120]  Big bright white thing?
[42:01.140 --> 42:01.680]  Five in the morning.
[42:01.940 --> 42:03.020]  Well, 4.30 in the morning, actually.
[42:03.160 --> 42:03.740]  And yeah, I saw it.
[42:03.820 --> 42:04.500]  I just haven't...
[42:04.500 --> 42:07.600]  At the exact moment, I saw the thing go by, and it looked a lot like Mir.
[42:07.700 --> 42:08.680]  But it wasn't the same as Mir.
[42:08.820 --> 42:09.860]  It was the first time I ever saw ISS.
[42:10.560 --> 42:14.180]  And it's brighter when it has the space shuttle attached to it, which it was attached to it last week.
[42:14.180 --> 42:14.920]  It's coming back tonight, by the way.
[42:15.400 --> 42:16.280]  The shuttle's coming back tonight?
[42:16.320 --> 42:16.740]  The shuttle's coming back tonight.
[42:16.740 --> 42:17.580]  Oh, it's landing tonight.
[42:18.100 --> 42:18.780]  That's nice.
[42:19.940 --> 42:20.760]  Let's post it.
[42:20.980 --> 42:24.000]  Okay, let's go to the phones and see who's out there.
[42:24.860 --> 42:25.480]  Good evening.
[42:25.500 --> 42:26.300]  You're on the air.
[42:26.960 --> 42:28.800]  Oh, you know, why do people do that?
[42:29.040 --> 42:29.860]  It's so annoying.
[42:30.040 --> 42:30.300]  Good evening.
[42:30.420 --> 42:31.120]  You're on the air.
[42:32.480 --> 42:32.980]  Speak up.
[42:33.180 --> 42:33.460]  Go ahead.
[42:33.780 --> 42:35.980]  This call is about the filtering software.
[42:36.200 --> 42:36.660]  Yeah, go ahead.
[42:36.820 --> 42:41.840]  My school was in the news about a year ago or so because a student tried to do a project on breast cancer.
[42:41.840 --> 42:45.120]  It turns out that got completely blocked off.
[42:45.460 --> 42:49.220]  And also the Tyson Chicken site got blocked off, too.
[42:49.760 --> 42:50.420]  Oh, chicken breast.
[42:50.580 --> 42:52.180]  Yeah, that's highly controversial.
[42:52.560 --> 42:54.260]  Do you know what software was being used?
[42:54.680 --> 42:56.260]  I believe it's called GEAR.
[42:56.480 --> 42:58.700]  It's what the New York City Board of Education uses.
[42:59.360 --> 42:59.780]  GEAR?
[42:59.820 --> 43:00.600]  How do you spell that?
[43:00.940 --> 43:01.900]  G-E-A-R.
[43:02.040 --> 43:02.660]  G-E-A-R?
[43:02.840 --> 43:03.020]  Yeah.
[43:03.540 --> 43:04.360]  You want to look that up, Isaac?
[43:04.920 --> 43:06.040]  The word GEAR?
[43:06.120 --> 43:06.980]  GEAR.com, maybe.
[43:07.260 --> 43:07.740]  Oh, no, no.
[43:08.160 --> 43:10.000]  GEAR.com, it's not that.
[43:10.000 --> 43:11.840]  It's just the name of the filtering software.
[43:12.080 --> 43:15.360]  Okay, well, find some filtering software called GEAR and we'll tear that apart.
[43:15.400 --> 43:26.460]  I'm reminded also of a software product called BESS, which was installed by several schools as filtering software and ended up tracking where students were going on the Internet.
[43:26.560 --> 43:32.920]  And they had a plan, which was fortunately stopped before it could be realized, to sell that information to marketers.
[43:33.120 --> 43:33.700]  Oh, my God.
[43:33.980 --> 43:37.980]  Could they actually attach it to individual students or did they just do it en masse?
[43:38.200 --> 43:38.840]  I'm not sure.
[43:38.840 --> 43:47.120]  Can you imagine if you were watching individual students and you saw what kind of site they went to and if it was, you know, a troubling site and they had to see the guidance counselor or something?
[43:48.080 --> 43:49.300]  I could see that happening.
[43:49.540 --> 43:53.640]  It's called iGear and it actually brings you to a site that's run by Symantec.
[43:54.220 --> 43:54.540]  Really?
[43:54.820 --> 43:55.080]  Yeah.
[43:55.760 --> 43:56.600]  The plot thickens.
[43:56.800 --> 43:58.040]  Let's move on to another phone call.
[43:58.920 --> 43:59.640]  Good evening.
[43:59.900 --> 44:00.460]  You're on the air.
[44:01.420 --> 44:02.220]  Hi, Manuel.
[44:02.480 --> 44:02.820]  I'm Barry.
[44:03.080 --> 44:03.520]  What's up?
[44:03.820 --> 44:07.320]  I have a question about that Dennis Tito person.
[44:07.680 --> 44:08.120]  Go ahead.
[44:08.620 --> 44:15.160]  Um, didn't sort of the same thing happen when, uh, a United States submarine crashed into the Japanese ship?
[44:15.940 --> 44:19.400]  Wasn't some, uh, some rich guy from Texas, uh, on command?
[44:19.540 --> 44:20.460]  That's an interesting point.
[44:20.580 --> 44:21.100]  Now, uh...
[44:21.100 --> 44:23.880]  There were civilians in the control room at the time and there were...
[44:23.880 --> 44:24.660]  There was a tour going on.
[44:24.700 --> 44:25.480]  They weren't just civilians.
[44:25.660 --> 44:26.960]  They were VIPs of major corporations.
[44:27.120 --> 44:28.920]  Did they ever give out the names of those people?
[44:29.080 --> 44:30.620]  It wasn't major corporations.
[44:30.620 --> 44:33.400]  They were members of an organization that was looking to...
[44:33.400 --> 44:34.000]  Who were those people?
[44:34.200 --> 44:34.620]  Were they ever...
[44:34.620 --> 44:35.460]  Were the names ever given out?
[44:35.540 --> 44:35.920]  Because they...
[44:35.920 --> 44:37.540]  They refused to give out the names...
[44:37.540 --> 44:37.740]  I don't know.
[44:37.840 --> 44:38.180]  ...at one point.
[44:38.240 --> 44:39.500]  I like to know if the names got given out.
[44:39.580 --> 44:43.880]  Because that kind of thing, I just thought was insane that they would just actually keep that information secret.
[44:44.040 --> 44:48.060]  You can deal with the guilt factor later, but, you know, covering up like that is just...
[44:48.060 --> 44:48.540]  I think that's totally wrong.
[44:48.540 --> 44:49.580]  Why should you want to know their names?
[44:49.760 --> 44:50.380]  Why shouldn't you?
[44:50.640 --> 44:51.280]  I mean, come on.
[44:51.420 --> 44:54.300]  People have the right to know who was involved in something like that.
[44:54.660 --> 44:56.820]  Why should they have the right to cover up that information?
[44:57.640 --> 44:58.040]  You know?
[44:58.180 --> 44:59.780]  You do have the right to this information.
[44:59.960 --> 45:04.360]  In any other case, you know, if I crashed into something, my name would appear in a newspaper.
[45:04.360 --> 45:07.200]  So I don't think I should be protected because I'm rich and famous.
[45:07.820 --> 45:08.520]  Anything else, caller?
[45:09.400 --> 45:09.760]  Yes.
[45:09.900 --> 45:11.320]  About the iGear thing.
[45:12.540 --> 45:16.880]  In Brooklyn Tech, that's where I go to and that's where they use the software too.
[45:16.880 --> 45:23.740]  So, if you could just change the proxy, this entire block of software is useless.
[45:24.080 --> 45:24.520]  Wait a minute.
[45:24.620 --> 45:26.040]  Brooklyn Tech, is that a high school or a college?
[45:26.220 --> 45:26.780]  It's a high school.
[45:26.820 --> 45:28.560]  That's a high school for bright kids, right?
[45:28.760 --> 45:30.100]  Yeah, you have to take a test.
[45:30.300 --> 45:37.760]  So, why did they put filtering software in a high school for bright kids who can figure out how to get around it, you know, rather simply, which obviously you've already done?
[45:38.380 --> 45:40.480]  Yeah, well, it's been done before.
[45:41.340 --> 45:45.200]  People have been using Microsoft Office and Word to get around.
[45:46.980 --> 45:47.640]  Other things.
[45:48.120 --> 45:51.540]  It's just there to make the administration happy.
[45:52.260 --> 45:54.240]  Yeah, that's pretty much what it boils down to.
[45:54.500 --> 45:57.380]  And probably to get matching federal funds or something as well.
[45:57.960 --> 46:01.120]  It's a real nightmare to embark in.
[46:01.200 --> 46:02.260]  Thanks for that call.
[46:02.400 --> 46:03.960]  Let's take another call.
[46:04.600 --> 46:05.640]  You know, our lines are open.
[46:05.680 --> 46:06.040]  Look at this.
[46:06.120 --> 46:07.520]  There's like three or four lines open.
[46:07.700 --> 46:08.800]  Something we said.
[46:09.040 --> 46:10.580]  212-209-2900.
[46:10.760 --> 46:11.140]  Yeah, really.
[46:11.360 --> 46:12.360]  Maybe the phones are out.
[46:12.560 --> 46:12.980]  Good evening.
[46:16.880 --> 46:21.480]  Okay, well, while the switchboard lights up, I'm going to read another piece of mail.
[46:23.120 --> 46:25.000]  This person heard our show last week.
[46:25.120 --> 46:27.280]  We were talking about CDDB, the CD database.
[46:27.800 --> 46:30.320]  In fact, I'm almost finished with...
[46:30.320 --> 46:31.840]  You have that look of someone who's on IRC.
[46:32.240 --> 46:33.500]  You're on IRC, aren't you?
[46:33.660 --> 46:37.280]  You have this moronic grin on your face as if you're speaking to somebody.
[46:37.280 --> 46:38.480]  Someone just posted a headline.
[46:38.600 --> 46:40.160]  Convicted hacker kills two trees.
[46:40.340 --> 46:43.240]  Does $10 million to tree industry.
[46:44.480 --> 46:44.880]  Great.
[46:46.120 --> 46:51.420]  So, I'm almost done with the encoding of all the CDs I own.
[46:51.500 --> 46:52.300]  It's taking forever.
[46:52.300 --> 46:54.720]  I have something like 18 days of straight music now.
[46:55.000 --> 46:55.860]  But I'm almost...
[46:55.860 --> 46:56.560]  The end is in sight.
[46:56.740 --> 47:02.380]  And I was mentioning how the iMac I have goes out and searches CDDB every time I put a CD in the machine.
[47:02.600 --> 47:05.000]  It comes up with a track and artist name and all kind of things.
[47:05.000 --> 47:09.360]  This person says there's an open source alternative to CDDB called FreeDB.
[47:09.680 --> 47:14.260]  And their page is at www.freedb.org.
[47:15.280 --> 47:22.120]  And this person also has a page that explains how to get Mac applications like iTunes working with FreeDB instead of CDDB.
[47:22.120 --> 47:32.880]  And that page can be found at www.cam.org, that's C-A-M.org, slash tilde C-Watson, slash FreeDB, slash FreeDB, dot H-T-M-L.
[47:33.360 --> 47:35.960]  The basic principle can be used on other OSes, too.
[47:38.340 --> 47:44.680]  And apparently CDDB has some bad history where they try to stop people from doing things.
[47:44.680 --> 47:49.540]  I'm not quite sure exactly what, you know, using the data, I suppose, but I don't know how they...
[47:49.540 --> 47:58.000]  If the data is taken directly from the CD or, you know, from information that really is unique to the CD, I don't know how they can claim copyright on it.
[47:58.580 --> 48:01.260]  Okay, we have a full switchboard now, so let's take a phone call over here.
[48:01.380 --> 48:02.300]  Good evening, you're on the air.
[48:03.720 --> 48:04.400]  Speak up, please.
[48:06.680 --> 48:07.360]  Yes, www...
[48:07.360 --> 48:08.680]  Speak up a little louder than that.
[48:09.040 --> 48:11.800]  Yes, www.abortionno.org.
[48:12.880 --> 48:13.560]  What about it?
[48:13.560 --> 48:38.280]  It's a great website for people who want to know about the pro-life and also just the open disclosure of information regarding abortion is at that site, www.abortionno.org.
[48:38.440 --> 48:40.360]  Okay, thanks for that information.
[48:40.600 --> 48:42.500]  And Isaac is hurrying over to that site right now.
[48:42.500 --> 48:43.680]  Hopefully, we're not blocking it.
[48:45.440 --> 48:47.220]  And learn everything you need to know.
[48:47.720 --> 48:48.580]  Good evening, you're on the air.
[48:49.960 --> 48:51.100]  It's with the dial tone tonight.
[48:51.160 --> 48:51.880]  Good evening, you're on the air.
[48:53.340 --> 48:54.760]  I think something's wrong with our phones.
[48:55.580 --> 48:56.240]  That's what I think.
[48:56.340 --> 48:57.420]  Good evening, you're on the air.
[48:58.840 --> 48:59.580]  Speak up, please.
[49:00.200 --> 49:01.000]  Yeah, hi, Emmanuel.
[49:01.160 --> 49:01.860]  My name is Nick.
[49:02.160 --> 49:02.900]  Hey, Vic, what's up?
[49:03.240 --> 49:08.500]  I just was calling because I did see one picture in the paper of two people that had been on that...
[49:10.280 --> 49:13.980]  I think they were from Texas, actually, but that was the only mention.
[49:14.080 --> 49:22.040]  They did mention their names, and they actually had their pictures in the paper, but that was the only mention of any of those individuals that I saw at all during the whole course of coverage.
[49:22.180 --> 49:31.900]  But also, I was actually calling because I don't know if you know or not, but in Connecticut yesterday, which is where I'm from, they instituted the 10-digit code calling here for all local calls.
[49:31.900 --> 49:32.940]  Oh, really?
[49:33.400 --> 49:35.020]  Yeah, so, I mean, they didn't tell anyone.
[49:35.020 --> 49:43.460]  I was making phone calls from my office, and I was calling from Norwalk to Stanford, and I kept getting a message saying you have to dial along, you know, the area code.
[49:43.600 --> 49:44.900]  And I thought, okay, this is screwy.
[49:45.220 --> 49:48.120]  I even called my service carrier, which is Networks Plus.
[49:48.280 --> 49:49.360]  They didn't know about anything.
[49:49.360 --> 49:58.120]  They told me to call the, you know, the repair unit, and then the repair unit said, oh, yes, you have to use 10-digit calling now.
[49:58.120 --> 50:02.320]  And I said, well, you know, this wasn't the case in the morning.
[50:02.320 --> 50:09.260]  It just changed at noontime without, you know, they didn't even give businesses a chance to reprogram their fax machines overnight.
[50:09.320 --> 50:12.620]  You know, it's like something that you would have to do in the middle of the day now.
[50:13.600 --> 50:15.800]  This just, this is for your own area code, too.
[50:15.860 --> 50:17.180]  You have to dial 10 digits.
[50:17.300 --> 50:19.840]  Everything, when I'm calling any place from Norwalk.
[50:19.960 --> 50:21.820]  Actually, isn't it 11 digits because you have to dial one first?
[50:22.020 --> 50:23.200]  11, but they said 10, yes.
[50:23.240 --> 50:24.120]  It is 11 digits.
[50:24.260 --> 50:25.200]  You do have to dial one.
[50:25.200 --> 50:32.360]  And I, I was appalled because, you know, I have a small business that meant that they didn't tell anybody that this was happening.
[50:32.500 --> 50:33.580]  They didn't send that a notice.
[50:33.820 --> 50:34.600]  Here's what I don't get.
[50:34.740 --> 50:38.160]  Now, you have to dial 11 digits for every single phone number.
[50:38.320 --> 50:40.400]  You know, you cannot dial anything less now.
[50:40.740 --> 50:42.820]  So you always have to dial one as the first digit.
[50:42.940 --> 50:45.340]  So why dial the one if one is always the first digit?
[50:46.260 --> 50:47.660]  Well, that's a good question.
[50:47.660 --> 50:49.380]  Why have to do any of this shit?
[50:49.660 --> 50:50.280]  Excuse me.
[50:50.420 --> 50:50.800]  Sorry about that.
[50:50.800 --> 50:57.400]  But, I mean, I keep reflecting back on the whole discussion of a four-digit area code and how, you know...
[50:57.400 --> 50:58.660]  Yeah, that would have solved a lot of problems.
[50:58.880 --> 51:05.400]  The, you know, it's silly how all this is coming back to roost on us because of that silly decision.
[51:05.840 --> 51:06.200]  No, absolutely.
[51:06.200 --> 51:07.700]  Anyway, I just wanted to let you know that.
[51:07.700 --> 51:09.220]  What kind of a phone are you calling from?
[51:09.340 --> 51:10.340]  You sound like you're calling over the internet.
[51:10.620 --> 51:11.260]  It's a cell phone.
[51:11.380 --> 51:13.280]  Okay, well, it sounds weird.
[51:13.340 --> 51:14.040]  I just got to tell you that.
[51:14.600 --> 51:17.700]  It sounds like you're calling over the internet or through a time vortex or something.
[51:18.060 --> 51:19.020]  He's on a cell phone, yes.
[51:19.020 --> 51:19.940]  Yes, both are true.
[51:20.260 --> 51:20.760]  You can get neither.
[51:20.880 --> 51:25.280]  Oh, speaking of cell phones, I got my third voice stream bill since I went over to Europe.
[51:25.440 --> 51:25.660]  Yes.
[51:25.780 --> 51:26.700]  Those charges are not there.
[51:26.780 --> 51:28.040]  I'm not getting charged for those phone calls.
[51:28.160 --> 51:31.480]  And I think that's good because on my phone bill, it does say I get free international roaming.
[51:31.620 --> 51:32.140]  Well, there you go.
[51:32.420 --> 51:36.820]  But that means if I'm in Denmark and I get a phone call, I don't pay anything for it when I'm in Denmark.
[51:36.920 --> 51:38.540]  I mean, that's just amazing to me.
[51:38.620 --> 51:41.420]  That is amazing because here in the States, I do pay for that.
[51:41.660 --> 51:45.300]  It's cheaper for me to be in Denmark receiving phone calls than here on an American service.
[51:46.160 --> 51:54.160]  I got to admit, though, it does seem a little weird because, you know, the people calling me are paying for a call only to New York and I'm not paying anything in Denmark.
[51:54.160 --> 51:55.440]  So how does it get over there?
[51:55.640 --> 51:56.420]  I'm not sure about that.
[51:56.480 --> 51:57.240]  But I haven't been billed.
[51:57.360 --> 51:58.680]  I don't think I will be billed.
[51:58.980 --> 52:01.840]  And we'll just keep talking about it and we'll see.
[52:01.940 --> 52:02.600]  Well, I want to know.
[52:02.720 --> 52:05.840]  You know, that's that's part of the reason I ask questions to find out the answer.
[52:06.100 --> 52:06.760]  Don't complain.
[52:07.040 --> 52:07.120]  Yeah.
[52:07.420 --> 52:07.680]  Hold up.
[52:07.820 --> 52:08.580]  Do I look like I'm complaining?
[52:09.000 --> 52:09.900]  March in front of voice.
[52:09.900 --> 52:10.660]  No, I've got my tickets.
[52:10.800 --> 52:11.460]  I'm going back there.
[52:11.500 --> 52:13.000]  I'm going back there to make some more phone calls.
[52:13.200 --> 52:14.520]  So good evening.
[52:14.520 --> 52:15.360]  You're on the air.
[52:16.500 --> 52:16.860]  Yeah.
[52:16.940 --> 52:17.120]  Hi.
[52:17.240 --> 52:17.600]  Good evening.
[52:17.740 --> 52:18.040]  What's up?
[52:18.380 --> 52:18.660]  Okay.
[52:19.040 --> 52:21.580]  Listen, I bought a PC from Dell, right?
[52:22.000 --> 52:27.000]  And they asked me to the text over there said, oh, it sounds like you got to reinstall your system software.
[52:27.480 --> 52:28.340]  So I did it.
[52:28.600 --> 52:32.420]  Then I noticed that the system was running slower and whatnot.
[52:33.280 --> 52:34.400]  And then I started talking.
[52:34.780 --> 52:36.860]  Then I started finding out about tweaks, right?
[52:36.860 --> 52:44.960]  And I started to realize that the installation that Dell performs is a customized installation of the system software that they don't support.
[52:45.480 --> 52:49.860]  So once you've reinstalled the system software, all the settings are gone.
[52:50.000 --> 52:51.000]  That who doesn't support?
[52:51.380 --> 52:51.920]  Dell.
[52:52.200 --> 52:54.900]  They don't support their original system's installation.
[52:54.900 --> 52:56.880]  They only support the OEM version.
[52:57.260 --> 53:04.000]  And once you've reinstalled it, all, you know, the operating system initializes to its default.
[53:04.000 --> 53:08.180]  So they ship you a Windows 90 whatever CD without the tweaks.
[53:08.600 --> 53:08.860]  Yeah.
[53:09.020 --> 53:16.660]  And then when it initializes, it just initializes to its default minus the tweaks that they perform at the factory.
[53:17.220 --> 53:17.360]  Hmm.
[53:18.700 --> 53:19.580]  That's interesting.
[53:20.360 --> 53:20.940]  Okay.
[53:21.020 --> 53:22.320]  And they don't support the tweaks.
[53:23.120 --> 53:24.060]  That, well...
[53:24.060 --> 53:34.700]  So then your system, so all that performance that they, you know, all these raves and that you see in the magazines, once you've reinstalled, and you will have to reinstall the system software at some point.
[53:34.740 --> 53:35.540]  Oh, it is Windows, yeah.
[53:35.900 --> 53:36.440]  Okay, right.
[53:36.700 --> 53:43.320]  And so, you know, once you've reinstalled the system software, see what sort of performance these machines get then.
[53:43.600 --> 53:45.740]  It was just like any other average system.
[53:45.880 --> 53:50.340]  And they have no, you know, they're not going to ship you the copy of the tweaks or anything?
[53:50.560 --> 53:51.100]  There's nothing.
[53:51.300 --> 53:52.140]  They have nothing.
[53:52.920 --> 53:53.520]  Forget it.
[53:53.600 --> 53:56.060]  The techs don't know what the installation group does.
[53:56.380 --> 53:57.420]  Is this commonly known?
[53:58.720 --> 53:59.360]  Oh, yeah.
[53:59.500 --> 54:05.780]  This thing is, they have, you know, they have this stuff all over Dell Talk, okay, which is their website.
[54:06.260 --> 54:12.040]  And this stuff is kicked around all the time, where people reinstall their system software and the machine just goes berserko.
[54:12.400 --> 54:18.180]  And then all of a sudden, all these crazy shutdown problems and blue screens of death.
[54:18.180 --> 54:20.380]  The important thing is to get the word out there.
[54:20.520 --> 54:25.340]  Maybe they'll do something and change the way they handle things, because, you know, that doesn't sound fair.
[54:25.540 --> 54:26.660]  No, it doesn't.
[54:26.660 --> 54:33.260]  And that's how they get the... and that's how they stay, you know, as far as the reviews are concerned that they get in all these publications.
[54:33.460 --> 54:33.580]  Right.
[54:33.760 --> 54:40.840]  That's how they stay... that's how they stay on, you know, one step ahead, because the hardware is very similar to all the other vendors' hardware.
[54:40.840 --> 54:59.120]  software, the operating system is a common... so what they basically do is they tweak the system, okay, to optimize the performance, and then, you know, and then once you reinstall the system software, you now have basically like any other brand, no-name PC with a Microsoft operator.
[54:59.140 --> 55:01.360]  Well, you see, that kind of thing works once.
[55:01.660 --> 55:04.400]  You know, it works for a little bit of time until people catch on.
[55:04.400 --> 55:11.500]  And then when people catch on, they use the, you know, the, the, the feedback methods that are available to them, and they, they get the word out.
[55:11.740 --> 55:16.520]  And all of a sudden, Dell has to not do that anymore because their reputation is going down the drain.
[55:17.280 --> 55:18.560]  Let's take another phone call.
[55:18.780 --> 55:20.080]  212-209-2900.
[55:20.180 --> 55:20.480]  Good evening.
[55:20.660 --> 55:21.220]  You're on the air.
[55:23.140 --> 55:23.500]  Okay.
[55:23.620 --> 55:25.460]  You gotta, you gotta wake up a little faster than that.
[55:25.520 --> 55:25.760]  Good evening.
[55:25.880 --> 55:26.420]  You're on the air.
[55:28.100 --> 55:28.820]  Yeah, you too.
[55:28.980 --> 55:30.480]  Look, I don't know what's going on out there.
[55:30.600 --> 55:33.520]  I don't know what, what kind of, all right.
[55:33.660 --> 55:34.560]  This person's on.
[55:34.640 --> 55:34.900]  Good evening.
[55:35.060 --> 55:35.620]  You're on the air.
[55:36.280 --> 55:37.020]  Good evening, Emmanuel.
[55:37.240 --> 55:37.380]  Hey.
[55:38.320 --> 55:44.700]  Hey, I was going to mention about on last week's program that you were talking about the inventing the MP3 jukebox.
[55:44.920 --> 55:45.280]  Yes.
[55:46.000 --> 55:50.140]  If you're curious, there's a website called touchtunes.com.
[55:50.900 --> 55:51.300]  Okay.
[55:51.660 --> 55:54.460]  It's T-O-U-C-H-T-U-N-E dot com.
[55:54.460 --> 55:57.680]  And basically, they've already one step ahead of you.
[55:57.940 --> 55:58.320]  Well, okay.
[55:58.460 --> 56:00.280]  Where have they installed their MP3 jukebox?
[56:00.360 --> 56:02.540]  Can I go to a diner someplace and hear any music I want?
[56:04.000 --> 56:05.360]  Unfortunately, you can't.
[56:06.280 --> 56:12.940]  Despite the fact that the thing is hooked up to a phone line, they still only put like top 40 artists on it.
[56:13.320 --> 56:13.820]  Go figure.
[56:14.400 --> 56:17.660]  I mean, it's just sick and perverted what they do with this technology.
[56:17.880 --> 56:23.780]  I mean, if you, I mean, technically you should be able to come up to this machine and have access to every piece of recorded music in the world.
[56:23.780 --> 56:24.880]  Okay, let's do this.
[56:24.900 --> 56:33.440]  I'm sure there's all kinds of cool people listening to us that own shops down in the East Village or something like that, that maybe want to install an iMac for their jukebox.
[56:33.740 --> 56:34.680]  Let's work together.
[56:34.680 --> 56:36.040]  Let's get this thing up and running.
[56:36.140 --> 56:43.560]  Let's have the best jukebox in the world in an establishment where people can actually select from thousands of selections and see just what it is that stops us.
[56:43.560 --> 56:49.160]  If the RIA steps in and says, you can't do that, you can't offer people a wide selection, you have to only put in top 40.
[56:49.340 --> 56:50.400]  And Isaac, you'll totally puzzle.
[56:50.400 --> 56:51.620]  This thing looks awful.
[56:51.740 --> 56:52.980]  It looks like an ATM machine.
[56:53.820 --> 56:55.020]  It's got a touch screen.
[56:55.260 --> 56:56.580]  What kind of jukebox is that?
[56:56.640 --> 56:56.780]  All right.
[56:56.820 --> 56:58.020]  But that's my offer, okay?
[56:58.040 --> 57:04.620]  People out there on establishments and they want to put together an MP3 jukebox, I'm willing to devote some time to this because I think it's a good idea.
[57:05.100 --> 57:05.540]  Right, Dave?
[57:06.220 --> 57:06.540]  Absolutely.
[57:06.660 --> 57:07.080]  Yeah, okay.
[57:07.460 --> 57:08.840]  You know a thing or two about good inventions.
[57:09.060 --> 57:10.200]  How can they contact you?
[57:10.720 --> 57:11.920]  Okay, that's a good question.
[57:12.320 --> 57:14.820]  OTH at 2600.com is our email address.
[57:15.040 --> 57:17.040]  And of course, they can write to us here at the radio station.
[57:17.160 --> 57:19.100]  You know, we don't get any mail here at the radio station.
[57:19.100 --> 57:19.820]  I don't know why that is.
[57:19.900 --> 57:20.640]  I haven't gotten mail.
[57:20.900 --> 57:21.480]  Well, I don't know.
[57:21.560 --> 57:23.220]  It hasn't been appearing in the mail.
[57:23.280 --> 57:26.900]  Either people have stopped writing or our mail is falling into a black hole someplace.
[57:26.920 --> 57:28.340]  So please send us mail.
[57:28.780 --> 57:30.020]  I want everybody to send us mail.
[57:30.180 --> 57:31.160]  Let's see how much mail we can get.
[57:31.540 --> 57:35.300]  Off the hook here at WBAI, 120 Wall Street, New York, New York, 10005.
[57:35.320 --> 57:36.440]  We have time for one more phone call.
[57:36.500 --> 57:36.760]  Let's take it.
[57:36.860 --> 57:37.120]  Good evening.
[57:37.200 --> 57:37.620]  You're on the air.
[57:49.100 --> 57:49.500]  Good evening.
[57:49.720 --> 57:50.400]  You are on the air.
[57:50.480 --> 57:51.600]  Emmanuel, Tommy Pickles.
[57:51.740 --> 57:52.020]  All right.
[57:52.160 --> 57:53.060]  Here's somebody who knows how to speak.
[57:53.260 --> 57:53.520]  Go ahead.
[57:53.580 --> 57:54.220]  Hey, quick one.
[57:54.640 --> 57:58.840]  I haven't heard it mentioned, but AtlantaCon is coming up next weekend.
[57:59.060 --> 57:59.360]  Oh, yeah.
[57:59.400 --> 58:01.120]  Tell us about that quickly in about 30 seconds.
[58:01.740 --> 58:05.560]  AtlantaCon, April Fool's weekend, which is a week after Friday.
[58:06.020 --> 58:07.380]  And it's held down in Atlanta.
[58:07.620 --> 58:09.700]  It's actually outside Atlanta in Doraville.
[58:10.060 --> 58:10.980]  Second year running.
[58:11.560 --> 58:12.540]  Pretty good land.
[58:13.040 --> 58:13.640]  Gaming land.
[58:13.800 --> 58:14.360]  Hacking land.
[58:14.580 --> 58:15.260]  Capture the flag.
[58:15.380 --> 58:15.760]  Hacksec.
[58:15.920 --> 58:16.300]  Moloch.
[58:16.420 --> 58:17.060]  Everyone down there.
[58:17.580 --> 58:17.800]  Okay.
[58:17.940 --> 58:18.480]  That sounds good.
[58:18.660 --> 58:23.300]  And I will be showing Cybertruck also in the Moloch convention room.
[58:23.380 --> 58:25.900]  We have our own convention room for our own mini-rave.
[58:26.020 --> 58:26.260]  All right.
[58:26.380 --> 58:27.320]  Well, Cybertruck, of course...
[58:27.320 --> 58:28.240]  Moloch always throws a party down there.
[58:28.380 --> 58:31.340]  Cybertruck is the French version of the Takedown film.
[58:31.360 --> 58:33.460]  Actually, it's Takedown in French with...
[58:33.460 --> 58:35.960]  Well, actually, it can be in English with French subtitles, depending on the DVD.
[58:36.820 --> 58:38.280]  And, yeah, you won't like it at all.
[58:38.340 --> 58:38.740]  You'll hate it.
[58:38.800 --> 58:39.380]  It's a horrible film.
[58:39.600 --> 58:40.420]  Oh, it's funny.
[58:40.420 --> 58:41.040]  It's funny.
[58:41.160 --> 58:41.680]  Yeah, I'll say that.
[58:41.760 --> 58:43.180]  It's a very funny film, but...
[58:43.180 --> 58:46.200]  It's a funny-will-you-please-kill-me sort of funny, but it's funny.
[58:46.420 --> 58:47.540]  Yeah, that's AtlantaCon.
[58:47.680 --> 58:50.260]  And, yeah, and, of course, HIP is a HIP.
[58:50.400 --> 58:51.500]  HAL is coming up in August.
[58:51.740 --> 58:52.700]  That's going to be a lot of fun.
[58:53.500 --> 58:56.300]  Icon in two weeks out at Stony Brook, the science fiction convention.
[58:56.440 --> 58:58.180]  There'll be all kinds of hacker things out there.
[58:58.280 --> 58:58.620]  We'll be out there.
[58:58.640 --> 59:01.240]  Look on our website for more information about that in the next week.
[59:01.640 --> 59:04.180]  And our website, www.2600.com.
[59:05.100 --> 59:06.760]  That's going to do it for our show this week.
[59:06.760 --> 59:09.700]  We'll be back again next week for another action-packed edition of Off the Hook.
[59:09.700 --> 59:10.680]  Until then, Emanuel Goldstein.
[59:10.760 --> 59:11.060]  Have a good night.
[59:11.280 --> 59:14.280]  It's ringing, so I ripped it off the wall.
[59:15.200 --> 59:17.200]  I cut myself while shaving.
[59:17.800 --> 59:19.780]  Now I can't make a call.
[59:25.550 --> 59:28.090]  Diddly bump, but the best expect from worst.
[59:28.710 --> 59:30.630]  I hope that's understood.
[59:30.970 --> 59:31.630]  But diddly bump!
[01:00:18.190 --> 01:00:24.750]  The preceding program was brought to you live with portions on recording over listener-sponsored, not a commercial of WBAI New York.
[01:00:26.190 --> 01:00:30.610]  At 10 p.m., enough said, with Ken Gale and Ed Benji.
[01:00:31.070 --> 01:00:33.650]  At 9 p.m., Tahir.
[01:00:36.110 --> 01:00:37.950]  Starting up momentarily.
[01:00:38.890 --> 01:00:40.930]  This is WBAI New York.
[01:00:41.130 --> 01:00:46.130]  In a moment, in a minute or two, we will be back with Barbara Nimri-Aziz and Tahir.
[01:00:49.320 --> 01:00:52.840]  Greetings from the Atlantica Radio Empire with a friendly warning.
[01:00:53.120 --> 01:00:57.900]  A dangerous new radio empire is taking over other radio empires by surprise.
[01:00:57.900 --> 01:00:58.400]  A surprise.
[01:00:58.460 --> 01:00:58.740]  A surprise.
[01:00:58.740 --> 01:00:59.160]  A surprise.
[01:00:59.160 --> 01:00:59.220]  A surprise.
[01:00:59.280 --> 01:00:59.660]  A surprise.
[01:00:59.660 --> 01:00:59.760]  A surprise.
[01:00:59.760 --> 01:00:59.920]  A surprise.