[00:01.790 --> 00:04.950]  We'll put up the shout-outs a little after the start of the show.
[00:05.370 --> 00:08.750]  So call 212-209-2958.
[00:09.050 --> 00:10.830]  That's the prisoner's shout-out line.
[00:11.290 --> 00:15.350]  212-209-2958.
[00:15.750 --> 00:17.890]  I miss you so much at home, man.
[00:17.990 --> 00:19.110]  I really do, man.
[00:19.830 --> 00:20.830]  Daddy loves you.
[00:21.390 --> 00:22.550]  Stay strong.
[00:23.390 --> 00:24.770]  And we're going to be alright.
[00:44.520 --> 00:45.480]  Moorish.
[00:46.880 --> 00:47.840]  Orthodox.
[00:49.380 --> 00:50.340]  Radio.
[00:51.960 --> 00:52.920]  Crusade.
[00:55.020 --> 00:57.160]  Anarchism for the global city.
[00:57.680 --> 01:00.760]  Radical environmentalism for the concrete jungle.
[01:01.580 --> 01:05.400]  Esoteric explorations of the secret history of rebel culture.
[01:05.760 --> 01:08.690]  The Moorish Orthodox Radio Crusade.
[01:08.690 --> 01:11.620]  Every Tuesday at midnight after the news.
[01:11.910 --> 01:18.760]  Only on listener-supported, non-commercial, WBAI 99.5 FM in New York City.
[01:20.440 --> 01:21.340]  Be there.
[01:29.270 --> 01:33.090]  And the folks at Moorish Orthodox Radio Crusade will be here in just four hours.
[01:33.290 --> 01:36.770]  So schedule your appointments around that.
[01:37.070 --> 01:38.990]  We only have one working cart machine.
[01:38.990 --> 01:41.710]  If you've never been in a radio station, you probably don't know what that means.
[01:41.810 --> 01:44.110]  But it means basically that I have to juggle things while I'm talking.
[01:44.710 --> 01:47.510]  And, uh, telling you that this is radio station WBAI.
[01:47.610 --> 01:47.970]  It's eight o'clock.
[01:48.090 --> 01:49.050]  Time for Off the Hook.
[01:55.570 --> 01:57.410]  The telephone keeps ringing.
[01:57.890 --> 02:00.010]  So I ripped it off the wall.
[02:01.030 --> 02:03.010]  I cut myself while shaving.
[02:03.590 --> 02:05.650]  Now I can't make a call.
[02:10.540 --> 02:14.000]  It would, but I'd expect the worst.
[02:14.660 --> 02:16.560]  I hope that's understood.
[02:16.780 --> 02:17.720]  But I'd expect the worst.
[03:17.500 --> 03:20.580]  I am an anti-coaster.
[03:20.860 --> 03:23.280]  I am an anti-coaster.
[03:23.280 --> 03:24.160]  I am an anti-coaster.
[03:24.380 --> 03:27.900]  Don't know what I want, but I know how to get it.
[03:28.080 --> 03:29.120]  I want to destroy.
[03:29.120 --> 03:42.180]  Possibly cause I wanna be an anti-coaster.
[03:42.480 --> 03:44.920]  Now don't worry.
[03:46.620 --> 03:48.120]  An anti-coaster.
[03:48.680 --> 03:55.080]  I want to be an anti-coaster.
[03:55.080 --> 03:56.820]  Stop a traffic line.
[03:57.100 --> 04:01.420]  Your future dream is a sharp instinct to say.
[04:35.160 --> 04:38.450]  Many ways to get what you want.
[04:38.790 --> 04:40.310]  I use the best.
[04:40.590 --> 04:41.810]  I use the rest.
[04:42.250 --> 04:45.090]  I use the enemy.
[04:45.870 --> 04:49.170]  I use anarchy.
[04:49.170 --> 04:52.190]  Cause I...
[05:01.110 --> 05:04.070]  It's the only way to be.
[05:18.530 --> 05:21.650]  Is this the MPLA?
[05:22.110 --> 05:25.070]  Or is this the UDA?
[05:25.830 --> 05:28.770]  Or is this the IRE?
[05:29.410 --> 05:32.470]  I thought it was a UK.
[05:32.470 --> 05:37.440]  or do another?
[06:20.160 --> 06:22.960]  can't be...
[06:24.960 --> 06:25.660]  Anarchist.
[06:27.300 --> 06:30.160]  A dead-mest destroy.
[06:36.440 --> 06:38.380]  And a very good evening to everybody!
[06:40.420 --> 06:41.120]  Yeah...
[06:41.120 --> 06:45.300]  We don't want to play too much of that request by Isaac there.
[06:45.480 --> 06:45.820]  How are you doing?
[06:46.020 --> 06:46.360]  All right.
[06:46.420 --> 06:46.820]  Yourself, sir?
[06:47.260 --> 06:47.960]  Okay, okay.
[06:48.820 --> 06:49.940]  You seem a little out of breath.
[06:50.100 --> 06:50.720]  I am out of breath.
[06:50.820 --> 06:52.060]  I'm still recovering from this weekend.
[06:52.380 --> 07:02.040]  It was quite a lot of action-packed activity at the ICON conference, where we showed our film twice.
[07:02.680 --> 07:03.540]  How was it received?
[07:03.660 --> 07:04.500]  It was received very well.
[07:04.620 --> 07:07.400]  In fact, we had a couple of different showings.
[07:07.400 --> 07:12.280]  We had a showing... this is at a science fiction convention out at the State University of New York at Stony Brook, an annual event.
[07:13.260 --> 07:21.180]  And we had our film available for viewing for the first time by a non-hacker audience, so I was a little concerned.
[07:21.540 --> 07:25.220]  And I think I was right to be concerned, because the first night, we had a very small crowd.
[07:25.280 --> 07:26.640]  We only had about a dozen people there.
[07:26.820 --> 07:29.640]  It's probably because all kinds of other things were going on.
[07:29.760 --> 07:40.200]  In fact, right after our particular showing, there was this big, massive Star Wars competition or something, and all these Star Wars people started moving in the last half hour of the film.
[07:40.440 --> 07:48.020]  They kind of sort of destroyed the ending of the film, because nobody was paying any attention, and everybody was anticipating some massive Star Wars thing.
[07:48.520 --> 07:54.960]  But the second night, the second night was really good, because we had an auditorium practically filled with people who were there to see the film, actually.
[07:55.600 --> 07:59.820]  And they really seemed to get into it, and I was happy to see that.
[07:59.860 --> 08:03.980]  I was happy to see people actually, you know, not of the hacker world, taking an interest.
[08:03.980 --> 08:09.140]  And I think the biggest question that we got asked after the film was, how could such a thing like this happen?
[08:09.260 --> 08:16.860]  Are there other cases, a real interest in the justice or injustice in America that led to the whole Kevin Mitnick case?
[08:17.100 --> 08:24.100]  So I think in that regard, we were successful getting the word out and actually educating people as to what goes on in this country.
[08:24.700 --> 08:28.240]  So, yes, it was shown twice at that conference.
[08:28.360 --> 08:31.920]  Hopefully, we'll be showing it again at other places, film festivals, things like that.
[08:32.660 --> 08:36.820]  And we'll be showing it at the HAL conference in August over there in Holland.
[08:38.360 --> 08:40.640]  We'll keep you updated here on this radio program.
[08:40.980 --> 08:43.060]  You were accepted to a film festival, I understand.
[08:43.060 --> 08:48.740]  Yes, actually, we were accepted to a film festival in Ohio, Athens, Ohio.
[08:49.900 --> 08:52.420]  Some college festival, which I believe...
[08:52.420 --> 08:52.600]  How about that?
[08:52.660 --> 08:53.920]  Yeah, I was pretty happy with that.
[08:54.100 --> 08:55.740]  So, yeah, it's getting out there.
[08:55.880 --> 09:02.740]  It's getting out there, and we hope to have it available on videocassette and eventually DVD in the near future.
[09:02.820 --> 09:02.820]  Wait a second.
[09:02.880 --> 09:04.320]  You tend to put it on DVD?
[09:04.320 --> 09:06.560]  Well, we're going to put it on video first.
[09:07.200 --> 09:09.200]  We actually want to do closed captioning for this thing.
[09:09.280 --> 09:12.160]  I have to learn how to do that, how that whole process is done.
[09:12.740 --> 09:22.640]  So then it'll be released in that way pretty much, hopefully, in the early part of this year or before too much more of this year goes by.
[09:24.220 --> 09:27.060]  And then after that, we'll see how it plays out.
[09:27.080 --> 09:32.140]  Then we'll fix any problems that people might notice and, you know, put out a DVD after that.
[09:32.340 --> 09:32.640]  That sounds good.
[09:32.640 --> 09:35.020]  You know, with all kinds of additional features and things.
[09:35.460 --> 09:38.820]  Well, you're not going to region encode it or do any of that CSS training, are you?
[09:38.900 --> 09:38.960]  Well, that's what I wanted to ask people.
[09:38.960 --> 09:41.600]  That's what I wanted to ask people is how we should do it, you know.
[09:41.740 --> 09:43.460]  Should we encode for all regions?
[09:43.660 --> 09:46.700]  Should we, you know, put CSS on there in some form?
[09:46.840 --> 09:49.020]  Should we put the ECSS on there in some form?
[09:49.440 --> 09:51.740]  You know, region zero, you know, make our own region.
[09:51.740 --> 09:53.380]  The self-decoding DVD.
[09:53.780 --> 09:54.320]  I saw something.
[09:54.440 --> 10:00.560]  Maybe people can answer this question, but there are a series of anime DVDs.
[10:00.580 --> 10:10.080]  I saw some at the conference, and I also am aware of some in various parts of California, that are Region Code 1 and Region Code 4.
[10:10.640 --> 10:16.500]  So it almost looks like it says Region Code 14, but it's two Region Codes in one.
[10:16.680 --> 10:17.140]  That's interesting.
[10:17.200 --> 10:21.160]  Region Code 4 is Mexico, which might explain the prevalence of it in California.
[10:21.160 --> 10:24.940]  I don't know why it's particularly anime.
[10:25.400 --> 10:28.480]  It's also South America and Australia.
[10:29.780 --> 10:31.060]  That's just the way they did it.
[10:31.200 --> 10:38.180]  So there are combinations, so you can make combination Region Codes, which is kind of interesting.
[10:38.320 --> 10:43.460]  Yeah, I don't know how they're actually decoded on the disc, but that's something we'll have to research.
[10:43.720 --> 10:45.800]  Yes, for our DVD release.
[10:45.800 --> 10:55.180]  And keep in mind, we are the copyright holder in this case, so we can, you know, make our demands known to the people that put out DVDs how we want them.
[10:55.180 --> 11:01.980]  We could insist that this only be viewable on Linux machines, you know, and what will they do then, you know?
[11:02.420 --> 11:04.600]  We're not going to include one of your keys.
[11:04.600 --> 11:07.740]  We're going to include our own key and distribute it amongst the poor.
[11:07.740 --> 11:10.760]  After all, it's all about protecting the copyright owner.
[11:10.880 --> 11:11.560]  Isn't that what it's all about?
[11:11.580 --> 11:13.960]  It's not protecting the big business industries and MPA?
[11:14.140 --> 11:14.700]  Protecting the artist.
[11:14.860 --> 11:15.500]  The artist, right.
[11:15.600 --> 11:15.880]  The artist.
[11:16.160 --> 11:19.860]  And in this case, it just happens to be us, so we'll just have to see what happens.
[11:19.860 --> 11:24.320]  Well, you have a unique case in that the artist is the copyright owner, which doesn't happen all that often.
[11:24.540 --> 11:24.860]  That's true.
[11:24.920 --> 11:28.460]  Usually you give away your rights, both as a musician, as a filmmaker.
[11:28.660 --> 11:32.880]  Usually you sell it to somebody, and then it's theirs, and they can do whatever they want with it.
[11:32.880 --> 11:35.740]  They can make commercials with it, or, you know, completely destroy it.
[11:37.180 --> 11:39.900]  I guess that's the secret, is just not to do that, you know?
[11:40.040 --> 11:42.540]  Hold on to your art, you know, keep it as yours.
[11:42.760 --> 11:47.560]  You might not make as much money, but at least you'll have some control, and they won't be making Levi's commercials out of your music.
[11:47.620 --> 11:48.840]  And who says you won't make more money?
[11:49.240 --> 11:49.920]  That's true, you could.
[11:49.940 --> 11:53.460]  When you have complete control over it, no one else is taking their stake out of it.
[11:53.780 --> 11:54.500]  Absolute control.
[11:54.800 --> 11:55.700]  That's what it's all about.
[11:56.660 --> 11:57.280]  Absolute control.
[11:58.960 --> 12:00.580]  Yeah, so, uh...
[12:02.060 --> 12:02.780]  Here's an announcement.
[12:02.880 --> 12:06.540]  That, uh, just, um, came down a couple of days ago.
[12:07.080 --> 12:09.480]  Uh, it has to do with our legal case.
[12:09.940 --> 12:15.500]  The, uh, the case of, um, of, uh, 2600 versus, uh, the entire world, it seems.
[12:16.060 --> 12:18.140]  So, um, we're at the stage of the appeal now, right?
[12:18.320 --> 12:20.260]  Uh, we, we are at the stage of the appeal.
[12:20.880 --> 12:24.360]  Uh, we're, um, we're basically getting the appeal together.
[12:24.400 --> 12:25.660]  Actually, we've been getting the appeal together.
[12:26.320 --> 12:29.400]  Um, and, um...
[12:29.940 --> 12:30.640]  Those people for me?
[12:30.880 --> 12:31.680]  Yeah, they're okay.
[12:31.860 --> 12:32.200]  They're cool.
[12:33.840 --> 12:35.580]  Um, yeah, you can send them in.
[12:35.720 --> 12:36.100]  Thanks.
[12:37.700 --> 12:40.700]  People showing up for the, uh, radio program until the last minute.
[12:42.600 --> 12:46.320]  Anyway, um, we are, uh, adding to our legal team.
[12:46.480 --> 12:54.020]  We now have, uh, the dean of the Stanford Law School, Kathleen Sullivan, who will be arguing our case in front of the Second Circuit, uh, Court of Appeals.
[12:54.020 --> 12:54.940]  Now, that's impressive.
[12:55.100 --> 12:55.840]  It is very impressive.
[12:56.060 --> 12:57.340]  And she has a very impressive record.
[12:57.480 --> 13:08.840]  If you look her, uh, you know, look at her past, look at her, uh, affiliations and, uh, you know, what, what she's done in front of Congress and things like that, uh, you'll see that, uh, this is a very good person to have on your side.
[13:09.360 --> 13:15.240]  And, uh, we still have, uh, have Marty Garbus and his, uh, his amazing firm of, uh, First Amendment attorneys.
[13:15.240 --> 13:19.180]  I mean, we've, we've got basically an all-star cast that will be in the courtroom on May 1st.
[13:19.620 --> 13:23.800]  Uh, and May 1st is the, um, is the date of the appeal.
[13:23.880 --> 13:29.560]  Now, the way it works, the way it's been explained to me, it's kind of, uh, kind of, uh, interesting how appeals work.
[13:29.760 --> 13:31.060]  I, I didn't know this until now.
[13:31.600 --> 13:36.120]  Uh, but basically, the case does not take very long.
[13:36.440 --> 13:39.460]  It, it doesn't take a month, doesn't take a week, doesn't even take a day.
[13:40.240 --> 13:41.320]  You have 20 minutes.
[13:41.600 --> 13:43.500]  20 minutes to present your case.
[13:44.320 --> 13:45.080]  And that's it.
[13:45.240 --> 13:48.560]  And then we would assume that the other side has 20 minutes to present theirs?
[13:48.700 --> 13:49.780]  No, you would assume wrong.
[13:49.960 --> 13:52.180]  The other side has 30 minutes to make their case.
[13:52.200 --> 13:56.220]  Now, I'll explain why that is in just a second, but let me explain the, the format of it first.
[13:56.640 --> 14:06.620]  Uh, in the 20 minutes, uh, you, you're presenting this case in front of a bunch of judges who may interrupt you and ask all kinds of questions and make fun of you and whatever else comes to mind.
[14:07.180 --> 14:09.400]  Uh, but it's supposed to take about 20 minutes.
[14:09.480 --> 14:11.380]  I think you can break that up into various sections.
[14:11.560 --> 14:16.180]  Yeah, sometimes the court, when they're asking questions, they won't keep you on the clock, and it's only 20 minutes for the answers.
[14:16.360 --> 14:16.500]  Right.
[14:17.040 --> 14:20.800]  Um, so, the other side gets 20 minutes, but here's the, here's the kicker.
[14:20.920 --> 14:26.620]  The, um, the government, the government of the United States of America, also filed against us in this case.
[14:26.800 --> 14:29.620]  Uh, so they get an extra 10 minutes.
[14:30.520 --> 14:33.020]  So, MPAA gets 20 minutes, U.S.
[14:33.060 --> 14:33.920]  government gets 10 minutes.
[14:34.080 --> 14:35.360]  So, they get 10 minutes more than us.
[14:35.440 --> 14:36.360]  It's a crazy system.
[14:36.520 --> 14:38.120]  I don't know why it works that way, but it does.
[14:38.820 --> 14:42.560]  Uh, now this will be taking place on Tuesday, May 1st, 10 a.m.
[14:42.660 --> 14:48.560]  at the, uh, federal courthouse, which I believe it's, it's the building next to the one that they had the original trial in downtown.
[14:49.320 --> 14:51.120]  Um, and it starts at 10 a.m.
[14:51.120 --> 14:58.440]  Um, so, uh, I imagine, uh, you know, if, if you want to see anything, you'll have to get there by then, because it probably won't be going on at, uh, at noon.
[14:59.000 --> 15:00.820]  It's a wonderful thing to be doing for May Day.
[15:01.380 --> 15:02.340]  Yeah, yeah.
[15:03.080 --> 15:04.460]  Fighting for the rights of the people.
[15:04.940 --> 15:11.160]  What better way to, to honor the, uh, the spirit of your heroes and mine.
[15:11.780 --> 15:12.080]  Indeed.
[15:12.340 --> 15:12.500]  Yeah.
[15:13.140 --> 15:15.360]  Uh, okay, now we have, uh, these announcements.
[15:17.760 --> 15:18.120]  Um.
[15:18.120 --> 15:22.500]  Um, well, not really announcements, kind of news stories.
[15:23.420 --> 15:35.000]  Uh, all kinds of pop stars, record label, and digital industry executives and users of the beleaguered internet song-sharing service Napster crammed a congressional hearing today to help chart the future of online music entertainment.
[15:37.020 --> 15:48.380]  Music legends Don Henley and Alanis Morissette urged more online freedoms that strengthen ties between artists and fans rather than enrich the coffers of giant record labels.
[15:48.580 --> 15:57.580]  Industry leaders countered that services like Napster that promote the illegal distribution of copyrighted material hurt everyone, artists, record companies, and consumers alike.
[15:58.440 --> 16:09.720]  Henley, member of the 1970s supergroup, the Eagles, took exception to the view that the, uh, recording industry Association of America represented the best interest of all artists in the Napster ruckus.
[16:10.240 --> 16:13.480]  Prompted by an RIAA lawsuit, a U.S.
[16:13.560 --> 16:17.720]  judge ordered Napster on March 5th to block the free exchange of copyrighted music.
[16:18.240 --> 16:23.780]  Henley said Napster could work within a legal framework with some improvements in that most users were willing to pay a fee.
[16:24.820 --> 16:25.420]  Is that true?
[16:25.560 --> 16:26.700]  Most users are willing to pay a fee?
[16:26.820 --> 16:27.200]  I couldn't tell you.
[16:27.300 --> 16:30.300]  I don't know what they'd be paying for because Napster doesn't have the files.
[16:31.260 --> 16:32.900]  That's, uh, yeah, that's exactly it.
[16:32.940 --> 16:35.960]  You know, you're paying for information and telling you where something is.
[16:36.680 --> 16:37.220]  I don't know.
[16:37.300 --> 16:38.420]  It's like paying for the phone book.
[16:38.660 --> 16:40.120]  Yeah, and, and, historically...
[16:40.120 --> 16:40.680]  Well, that's not a reasonable move.
[16:41.060 --> 16:47.480]  Historically, well, when, when, when the net and computers first started to become popular, you started to see CD-ROMs with the phone book on them.
[16:47.600 --> 16:48.520]  People were willing to pay that.
[16:48.640 --> 16:49.680]  Now, it's online.
[16:49.900 --> 16:51.320]  People aren't willing to pay that anymore.
[16:51.320 --> 16:55.120]  Or, it's information, you know, information of one sort or another.
[16:56.640 --> 17:00.420]  Anyway, lawsuits should not be used to destroy a viable and independent distribution system.
[17:00.420 --> 17:05.320]  The solution lies in the marketplace and not the courtroom, Henley told members of the Senate Judiciary Committee.
[17:05.360 --> 17:06.040]  I cannot agree with that more.
[17:06.160 --> 17:09.700]  I've never agreed with anything the Eagles had to say before, but this I agree with, you know.
[17:09.840 --> 17:10.760]  You don't like the Eagles?
[17:10.940 --> 17:13.700]  No, I think it's, it's bland and monotonous.
[17:13.880 --> 17:17.400]  But, you know, that's okay because I'm one less person trading in on Napster, you know.
[17:17.860 --> 17:18.800]  Well, they don't care.
[17:18.900 --> 17:19.380]  Yeah, that's right.
[17:19.420 --> 17:19.840]  They don't care.
[17:19.840 --> 17:21.060]  So, I guess, I don't know.
[17:21.320 --> 17:21.960]  I'm still sorry for you.
[17:22.100 --> 17:23.140]  You should like the Eagles.
[17:23.420 --> 17:24.400]  No, I shouldn't.
[17:24.580 --> 17:25.100]  Oh, that's fine.
[17:25.100 --> 17:25.620]  There's no reason to.
[17:26.360 --> 17:28.160]  But that's the whole thing with Napster.
[17:28.240 --> 17:30.520]  You can download the music that you're interested in.
[17:30.600 --> 17:31.120]  Exactly, exactly.
[17:31.280 --> 17:34.580]  You can probably find all kinds of Eagles clones out there, too, that don't get record distribution.
[17:34.720 --> 17:35.140]  That's true.
[17:35.700 --> 17:37.900]  You realize just how easy it is to make monotonous music.
[17:38.860 --> 17:39.640]  And the hawks.
[17:40.320 --> 17:51.400]  Anyway, Alanis Morissette, a multi-platinum singer-songwriter sensation from Canada, spoke of increasing divisions between artists and the RIAA, especially in the digital age.
[17:51.560 --> 17:59.040]  For the majority of artists, this so-called piracy worked in the artist's favor, she said, by spurring interest in ticket and merchandise sales.
[17:59.040 --> 18:00.940]  What we've been saying since day one.
[18:02.000 --> 18:03.300]  It's not about piracy.
[18:03.400 --> 18:07.240]  It's about opportunity, countered Hillary Rosen, president of RIAA.
[18:08.300 --> 18:12.980]  Napster was exciting, but giving away someone else's music without their permission is yesterday's news.
[18:15.020 --> 18:23.540]  The story now is the music industry's efforts to alert fans and consumers to the huge amounts of legitimately licensed music that is currently available online.
[18:23.880 --> 18:31.040]  Dick Parsons, co-chief operating officer of AOL, Time Warner, parent company of Warner Brothers and CNN, from which this story emanates.
[18:32.040 --> 18:34.720]  I think that kind of sums up what the problem is right there.
[18:34.920 --> 18:35.320]  Yeah, that's a bit large.
[18:36.540 --> 18:38.960]  Yes, we own everything, and we want to own the music as well.
[18:39.020 --> 18:39.980]  Not that we don't already.
[18:41.240 --> 18:48.040]  Elaborated on a deal announced Monday in which record label heavyweights plan to license their music to online audio software provider.
[18:48.560 --> 18:49.360]  Anyone want to guess?
[18:50.900 --> 18:52.420]  I can't even hazard one.
[18:53.400 --> 18:55.840]  It's got to be something part of the AOL empire.
[18:56.040 --> 18:56.480]  I don't know.
[18:56.540 --> 18:58.440]  Well, no, it's not, but it might as well be.
[18:59.100 --> 18:59.740]  One guess.
[18:59.740 --> 19:00.800]  It's not Microsoft.
[19:01.060 --> 19:01.900]  No, it's Real Networks.
[19:02.020 --> 19:02.400]  Oh, Real.
[19:02.540 --> 19:03.440]  Real Networks, yes.
[19:04.040 --> 19:14.140]  AOL, Time Warner, Bertelsmann, AG, EMI Group, and Real Networks said the joint music subscription service will combine downloadable and streaming music across multiple distribution networks.
[19:15.140 --> 19:17.500]  I just have this feeling it's going to really suck.
[19:17.720 --> 19:22.480]  They've tried this in the past, and there's like 300 songs on it that you don't want to hear.
[19:22.600 --> 19:22.840]  Uh-huh.
[19:23.540 --> 19:28.440]  And it fails for good reason, and therefore they say online music is doomed.
[19:28.440 --> 19:29.700]  But, Mike, it's called MusicNet.
[19:29.760 --> 19:30.380]  How can it fail?
[19:31.300 --> 19:32.120]  MusicNet, come on.
[19:32.280 --> 19:33.380]  Oh, you didn't tell me that.
[19:33.580 --> 19:34.880]  How did they manage to get that name?
[19:34.980 --> 19:36.600]  Wasn't that name taken by somebody by now?
[19:37.120 --> 19:37.480]  MusicNet.
[19:37.680 --> 19:45.020]  Anyway, MusicNet is a breakthrough platform for online music distribution that will guarantee copyright protections, Parsons said.
[19:45.360 --> 19:46.520]  And how does it do that?
[19:46.820 --> 19:49.840]  Well, they don't want to tell you because that would be a violation of the copyright, I guess.
[19:49.860 --> 19:50.100]  Oh, is it?
[19:50.100 --> 19:50.460]  I don't know.
[19:51.020 --> 20:00.700]  They don't go into detail, but Hank Barry, interim CEO of Napster, said major labels have made similar promises of a comprehensive subscription service for more than a year with little to show.
[20:01.220 --> 20:04.340]  Napster could serve in such a capacity provided the industry was willing.
[20:05.760 --> 20:10.900]  I've tried for the last nine months to make an agreement under which Napster can get a license from the record companies and the music publishers.
[20:11.220 --> 20:15.240]  And only Bertelsmann AG has agreed to such a deal.
[20:15.660 --> 20:26.380]  You know, what's interesting about this story is that it's titled, and keep in mind who puts out the story, CNN owned by AOL Time Warner, Music Stars Reps Clash in Congress Over Napster.
[20:26.720 --> 20:33.920]  Now, when I saw that headline, it sounded to me like music stars and reps, meaning reps of Congress, were clashing because reps clash in Congress.
[20:34.040 --> 20:34.840]  What are reps, you know?
[20:35.140 --> 20:35.540]  Representatives.
[20:35.840 --> 20:36.440]  Oh, okay.
[20:36.560 --> 20:37.220]  House of Representatives.
[20:37.380 --> 20:38.380]  But it's nothing like that.
[20:38.780 --> 20:41.380]  They're clashing with industry executives.
[20:41.940 --> 20:42.640]  Those are reps.
[20:42.640 --> 20:42.980]  Reps.
[20:43.060 --> 20:43.900]  I mean, who are the reps?
[20:43.960 --> 20:45.020]  What are they repping, you know?
[20:45.240 --> 20:47.260]  Music stars, don't they represent themselves?
[20:48.180 --> 20:52.720]  No, they have signed contracts with these recording industry studios.
[20:52.720 --> 20:53.840]  So what, they're no longer human?
[20:54.120 --> 20:55.860]  I mean, come on, they can't represent their own interests?
[20:56.020 --> 20:59.820]  That's the one question I would have for Don, Don Henley there, Yeah, Don Henley of the Eagles.
[21:00.040 --> 21:03.460]  who is jumping up and down and saying, you know, this isn't right, we should be...
[21:03.460 --> 21:04.840]  The Eagles do not jump up and down.
[21:04.840 --> 21:05.980]  That's one of my main complaints.
[21:06.400 --> 21:09.420]  Let's not go for the Eagles here.
[21:09.460 --> 21:11.000]  Might as well sit in a rocking chair and do their music.
[21:11.060 --> 21:14.200]  He's saying that this should be decided in the market and not in the courtroom.
[21:14.440 --> 21:16.720]  So why is he testifying before Congress?
[21:16.720 --> 21:18.400]  Now, I would say...
[21:18.400 --> 21:19.500]  Because he was asked to, I presume.
[21:19.760 --> 21:27.940]  Guys, let's put your money where your mouth is and not sign that next record contract with Sony or Capital or whoever the hell is out there that you signed the contract with.
[21:27.940 --> 21:31.520]  Well, first of all, it's not likely the Eagles are going to be putting out much more music in the future.
[21:31.620 --> 21:33.560]  They've pretty much said everything they can possibly say.
[21:33.760 --> 21:34.240]  All right?
[21:34.240 --> 21:40.580]  Second of all, if they signed a record contract, they've already signed it and it's probably going to last for the rest of their lives.
[21:41.080 --> 21:43.860]  But in this case, it's probably about another 10 years.
[21:44.020 --> 21:54.360]  I don't know how these record contracts work, but I imagine that they either have to be renewed or that when you come up with new works, you have to sign another contract in order to get that particular album put out.
[21:54.440 --> 21:55.560]  You know, I heard something really interesting.
[22:04.240 --> 22:05.720]  where the Icon Convention was taking place.
[22:05.840 --> 22:08.500]  And on Sunday, they had this terrific all-day Zapathon.
[22:09.500 --> 22:11.680]  Zapathon meaning where they play music of Frank Zappa.
[22:11.780 --> 22:14.780]  Now, there's a real artist who unfortunately is no longer around.
[22:14.920 --> 22:15.540]  But that's...
[22:15.940 --> 22:16.980]  He jumped up and down.
[22:17.060 --> 22:17.880]  He did all kinds of things.
[22:17.960 --> 22:19.340]  And he testified in front of Congress, too.
[22:19.400 --> 22:22.260]  And he had it right years ago before any of this started.
[22:22.740 --> 22:31.840]  But one of the things that I heard, and this was back in, I think in the 60s, there was a lawsuit going on involving his record company.
[22:32.000 --> 22:37.360]  And they actually filed a motion to prevent him from recording any new music because they owned it.
[22:37.440 --> 22:38.320]  Any new music.
[22:38.520 --> 22:40.980]  He was an artist that was not allowed to record music.
[22:41.120 --> 22:42.360]  Can you imagine how that felt?
[22:42.940 --> 22:44.760]  That's the kind of mentality we're dealing with.
[22:44.820 --> 22:47.060]  If that's the contract he signed, then, you know...
[22:47.060 --> 22:50.880]  Well, that's the contract a lot of people sign without realizing that they have that kind of control over them.
[22:50.960 --> 22:54.820]  And so, yeah, a word to the wise, do not make those kinds of deals.
[22:55.760 --> 22:57.280]  Let your music speak for itself.
[22:57.440 --> 23:01.820]  The internet is your best chance of actually getting it out there to people that will listen to it.
[23:02.120 --> 23:06.120]  Don't listen to these slick business suit people who have no idea what music is in the first place.
[23:07.020 --> 23:09.600]  That's a bad road to go down.
[23:10.040 --> 23:14.580]  Unfortunately, the music industry has a lot of power to make money for.
[23:14.880 --> 23:15.360]  It's chosen.
[23:15.520 --> 23:16.960]  Yeah, but that's the music industry.
[23:17.540 --> 23:18.920]  It's not the music world.
[23:19.100 --> 23:19.860]  That's the problem.
[23:20.020 --> 23:22.520]  I hate to harp on this yet again, but all their power...
[23:22.520 --> 23:23.260]  I hate for you to do that too.
[23:23.380 --> 23:26.880]  Okay, but all their power comes from the consumers who are buying the CDs.
[23:27.180 --> 23:29.980]  If you quit buying the stuff, they're nothing.
[23:29.980 --> 23:30.680]  They're no one.
[23:30.800 --> 23:32.000]  They get pushed off to the side.
[23:32.760 --> 23:37.000]  Yeah, well, unfortunately, you know, consumers also watch who wants to be a millionaire and survivor.
[23:38.200 --> 23:39.200]  And you see...
[23:39.200 --> 23:40.760]  Then how do you expect to change the world?
[23:40.880 --> 23:43.280]  You can't legislate stupidity, you know.
[23:43.520 --> 23:44.940]  It's always going to be there.
[23:45.060 --> 23:46.860]  It's always going to be a driving force in the market.
[23:47.180 --> 23:50.820]  Stupidity is the one thing that you certainly can legislate over and over and over.
[24:00.160 --> 24:06.520]  At ICANN, the Internet Corporation for the assigned names and numbers, people that control what numbers get put where on the Internet.
[24:06.680 --> 24:07.440]  Are they still insane?
[24:08.040 --> 24:12.300]  Seven new top-level Internet domains are due to become available later this year.
[24:13.040 --> 24:19.080]  Some domain name registrars are getting an early start by offering companies the opportunity to pre-register names.
[24:19.200 --> 24:23.700]  I've gotten about five million of these pieces of email saying, yes, they're...
[24:23.700 --> 24:24.840]  and it's always in the future.
[24:25.000 --> 24:29.060]  You know, these seven new top Internet domains are going to be offered sometime this year.
[24:29.980 --> 24:33.260]  And they've been saying, you know, sometime in the future now for many years.
[24:34.400 --> 24:37.100]  But they're offering you the chance to pre-register your name.
[24:37.160 --> 24:37.840]  Now, here's the thing.
[24:37.960 --> 24:39.560]  They don't have any way of doing that.
[24:39.720 --> 24:42.240]  And that's kind of the point of what they're saying here.
[24:42.800 --> 24:56.120]  Brett Legrand, the spokesman for ICANN, said companies can't be guaranteed the use of domain names that they pre-register because not all the details have been finalized for the planned edition of the new domains chosen last fall by the organization's board.
[24:57.180 --> 25:01.080]  ICANN doesn't recommend doing it, and neither does the Federal Trade Commission.
[25:01.420 --> 25:09.460]  Those new top-level domains include .biz, .aero, .info, .pro, and they probably won't be finalized until the fall.
[25:10.360 --> 25:10.760]  .pro?
[25:10.920 --> 25:11.700]  I don't remember that one.
[25:12.380 --> 25:13.720]  You know, I don't remember that one either.
[25:14.460 --> 25:15.380]  Where'd that one come from?
[25:15.560 --> 25:17.640]  I don't know what the other ones are either, but .aero?
[25:17.800 --> 25:18.340]  I don't understand.
[25:18.700 --> 25:19.100]  .museum?
[25:19.860 --> 25:21.260]  You know, who's going to...
[25:21.260 --> 25:25.060]  It's not exactly the kind of thing that is really needed that much.
[25:27.460 --> 25:28.700]  They didn't have .web.
[25:29.760 --> 25:30.640]  Well, that's...
[25:30.640 --> 25:31.680]  Thank God for that one.
[25:31.820 --> 25:38.100]  Well, because everything pretty much is on the web if you're going to a website, so I don't really know how they would have used that in the first place.
[25:38.900 --> 25:45.520]  Anyway, ICANN's official position is that no one has been authorized to pre-register domain names in the new top-level domains.
[25:46.680 --> 25:55.520]  Persons who attempt to pre-register such domain names do so at their own risk and with no assurance that they will receive the pre-registered names once the top-level domains become operational.
[25:55.680 --> 26:07.200]  But that hasn't stopped companies like OnlineNIC, their Fremont, California-based domain name registrar that's accredited by ICANN, and they're offering advanced registrations for the new TLDs.
[26:08.300 --> 26:17.720]  OnlineNIC, which was originally headquartered in China, announced last week that it's making pre-registrations available under four of the seven domains, dot biz, dot pro, dot info, and dot name.
[26:18.920 --> 26:26.720]  Despite its warnings to users, ICANN has not told us that we cannot pre-register, said an OnlineNIC representative.
[26:26.720 --> 26:27.860]  Otherwise, we wouldn't do it.
[26:28.160 --> 26:30.980]  Other registrars are making similar offers and we want to be competitive.
[26:31.600 --> 26:33.120]  Okay, here's my question.
[26:33.280 --> 26:36.740]  If other registrars are doing the same thing, how are you competitive?
[26:37.020 --> 26:45.280]  I mean, you know, if somebody grabs a particular domain name and you say that you can grab that particular domain name, where's the competition?
[26:45.280 --> 26:49.840]  You're both saying something that in all likelihood neither one of you can deliver.
[26:50.140 --> 26:53.400]  You know, there's no way to check with the other company to see if it was taken already.
[26:53.780 --> 26:56.420]  You know, you can only check with your own company to see if it was taken already.
[26:56.620 --> 26:58.400]  There's no guarantees here.
[26:58.740 --> 27:05.920]  So I have no idea what these people are thinking and how they expect to be able to get all these domain names when they do open up.
[27:05.920 --> 27:07.380]  That doesn't matter.
[27:07.680 --> 27:14.300]  The point is, they're going to get the $30 in their pocket for the next, what, eight months until ICANN decides these things and go online.
[27:14.540 --> 27:20.180]  Even if they can't register the names and they have to refund all the money, they've got all the interest on $30 for half a year.
[27:20.540 --> 27:21.260]  Yeah, that's probably true.
[27:21.340 --> 27:25.900]  They do say they will return the registration fees if their domain name requests can't be fulfilled.
[27:25.900 --> 27:36.080]  But, you know, first of all, for those that do get fulfilled, and there's probably a few that will, they get to keep, you know, that amount for doing not very much.
[27:36.560 --> 27:38.480]  And, yeah, interest on quite a lot of...
[27:38.480 --> 27:42.340]  But, you know, people really have to be kind of dim to buy into that.
[27:42.520 --> 27:46.760]  Well, you've already stated that they're kind of dim with the whole survivor...
[27:46.760 --> 27:47.780]  I guess that's kind of the theme.
[27:48.440 --> 27:49.280]  ...millionaire mentality.
[27:51.000 --> 27:53.800]  Speaking of dimwits, it seems that most people in the U.S.
[27:53.860 --> 27:55.740]  want stronger cybercrime laws.
[27:56.560 --> 27:57.660]  What's a cybercrime?
[27:57.760 --> 27:59.400]  Well, okay, we're going to try to get into that a little bit.
[27:59.520 --> 28:02.360]  This comes from InfoWorld.
[28:04.040 --> 28:05.300]  It's kind of weird how this works.
[28:05.420 --> 28:10.520]  It says, From InfoWorld, which is an IDG.net site, and it was posted on CNN.com.
[28:11.160 --> 28:13.240]  And here it is being read over WBAI.
[28:15.720 --> 28:16.080]  73%.
[28:16.080 --> 28:20.380]  Now, let's take all these numbers with some pillars of salt here because I think we're going to need to.
[28:21.600 --> 28:27.360]  73% of Americans are concerned about criminals using the Internet to plan and carry out crimes.
[28:28.060 --> 28:31.140]  While 43% are very...
[28:31.140 --> 28:32.060]  Wait a minute.
[28:32.240 --> 28:33.060]  That doesn't even add up.
[28:34.180 --> 28:35.760]  43% are very concerned.
[28:35.980 --> 28:39.220]  Okay, maybe they count as the 73% who are concerned.
[28:39.480 --> 28:40.780]  If you're very concerned, you're concerned.
[28:40.780 --> 28:45.740]  All right, so I guess 43% or the 73%.
[28:45.740 --> 28:47.180]  Already I'm confused.
[28:47.280 --> 28:48.060]  Only two numbers in.
[28:48.840 --> 28:58.180]  According to a telephone survey of 2,096 adults conducted by the Pew Internet and American Life Project in February.
[28:58.400 --> 28:59.260]  That's their name.
[28:59.400 --> 28:59.800]  P-E-W.
[28:59.920 --> 29:00.660]  Don't make fun, Isaac.
[29:01.740 --> 29:03.940]  55% approved of the U.S.
[29:04.060 --> 29:08.540]  Federal Bureau of Investigation or other law enforcement agencies intercepting suspects' e-mail.
[29:09.040 --> 29:11.420]  34% disapproved.
[29:12.880 --> 29:13.420]  All right.
[29:14.320 --> 29:23.740]  But when asked if current laws will sufficiently protect the privacy of e-mail or other online activities, 62% of Americans said no.
[29:24.300 --> 29:30.700]  Only 31% trust the government to do the right thing most of the time, down from 41% in 1988.
[29:31.280 --> 29:31.940]  Excuse me.
[29:32.000 --> 29:32.260]  Oh, yeah.
[29:32.840 --> 29:34.960]  How do laws protect anything?
[29:35.440 --> 29:36.840]  Well, here's the thing.
[29:37.040 --> 29:39.140]  It seems to me if 60...
[29:39.140 --> 29:42.060]  Only 31% trust the government to do the right thing.
[29:42.140 --> 29:46.480]  So that means that 69% conceivably do not trust the government to do the right thing.
[29:46.860 --> 29:47.580]  Well, that's encouraging.
[29:47.580 --> 29:48.220]  Some don't know.
[29:48.340 --> 29:53.580]  So how does that equate to saying that they want stronger cyber crime laws?
[29:53.980 --> 30:00.140]  If they don't trust the government to do the right thing, then they're not going to trust these laws which are enacted by the government, right?
[30:01.200 --> 30:02.600]  Don't try to use logic.
[30:02.700 --> 30:06.000]  Well, that's just my simplistic way of trying to analyze this.
[30:08.220 --> 30:15.500]  Okay, 70% of Internet users said that new laws need to be written to protect online privacy, according to the project's study.
[30:15.600 --> 30:16.460]  Of Internet users?
[30:17.660 --> 30:19.540]  Yes, 70% of Internet...
[30:20.380 --> 30:21.980]  I didn't get a copy of this poll.
[30:22.060 --> 30:23.580]  I don't think it's... but that's what it says.
[30:23.700 --> 30:26.020]  I'm reading it as it's said, and you can see how deceiving it is.
[30:26.020 --> 30:30.200]  70% of Internet users... yeah, that's that sentence right there.
[30:30.740 --> 30:31.700]  How offensive is that?
[30:31.840 --> 30:37.460]  70% of Internet users said that new laws need to be written to protect online privacy, according to the project's study.
[30:37.600 --> 30:52.020]  And the funny thing is, you know, what you're protecting your privacy against, while the implication in this article is that it's things like hackers, most people, when they think of this, they're thinking of things like government, big business, that kind of thing.
[30:52.300 --> 30:54.640]  But that's not translated into this article, is it?
[30:54.640 --> 31:01.340]  Well, 55% of non-Internet users said new laws are needed.
[31:01.720 --> 31:09.060]  About one in three non-users, 36%, said they don't know enough about that topic to answer the question, and please don't call back.
[31:10.280 --> 31:24.340]  It is worth noting that since few Americans are aware of the intricacies of current wiretapping laws, a survey about specific changes in the law that are being discussed by experts would be of little use.
[31:24.820 --> 31:30.480]  Instead, we sought to gauge Americans' general feelings about the balance between digital privacy and law enforcement.
[31:30.720 --> 31:31.100]  Who cares?
[31:31.300 --> 31:38.380]  Unwired Americans tend to worry about Internet crime more than those who regularly go online.
[31:39.160 --> 31:40.780]  Now, what does that tell you right there?
[31:42.420 --> 31:45.240]  People who aren't affected by something are more worried by it.
[31:47.180 --> 31:56.400]  About half of non-users and those with six months or less of Internet experience said they were very concerned, compared to about one-third of Internet users.
[31:56.400 --> 32:03.000]  Only 29% of online veterans, those with three years or more of experience, were very concerned.
[32:03.380 --> 32:04.740]  Maybe we know something.
[32:06.480 --> 32:09.660]  Women, African-Americans, and those with less education...
[32:10.000 --> 32:13.020]  Isn't that nice how they're lumped together like that?
[32:13.600 --> 32:13.860]  Okay.
[32:13.860 --> 32:21.480]  Women, African-Americans, and those with less education are more likely than their counterparts to be very concerned about Internet crime.
[32:21.480 --> 32:21.980]  Wait, wait.
[32:22.080 --> 32:26.320]  Can this second statement be explained by the fact that people who aren't on the Internet?
[32:26.360 --> 32:31.100]  Because the Internet is still not representative of society.
[32:31.900 --> 32:34.300]  I think this poll is not representative of reality.
[32:34.680 --> 32:41.440]  Internet crime is something that women are also more likely than men to be concerned about.
[32:41.540 --> 32:44.880]  They strongly support email monitoring by law enforcement agencies.
[32:45.500 --> 32:55.820]  The study specifically asked people about Carnivore, the FBI's controversial email monitoring system, renamed DCS-1000, after civil libertarians raised concerns about its capabilities last year.
[32:56.160 --> 32:56.980]  Isn't that great?
[32:57.180 --> 32:57.440]  Do you remember that?
[32:57.540 --> 32:58.620]  That's the response.
[32:58.860 --> 33:03.540]  After civil libertarians raised concerns, they renamed it to DCS-1000.
[33:04.120 --> 33:06.060]  It's like the School of the Americas.
[33:06.460 --> 33:06.940]  That's right.
[33:07.040 --> 33:07.660]  Why'd they rename that?
[33:08.600 --> 33:10.800]  Because people didn't like what's going on there.
[33:10.940 --> 33:11.080]  Yeah.
[33:11.360 --> 33:12.000]  It's gone.
[33:12.160 --> 33:13.240]  There's no more School of Americas.
[33:13.420 --> 33:14.020]  It's now called what?
[33:14.160 --> 33:14.820]  Something else.
[33:14.880 --> 33:15.400]  Something else.
[33:15.400 --> 33:16.040]  But we won.
[33:16.300 --> 33:16.400]  Okay?
[33:16.680 --> 33:17.180]  We won.
[33:18.440 --> 33:18.920]  There.
[33:19.660 --> 33:24.060]  The 20% of respondents who had heard of it split down the middle on their impressions.
[33:24.200 --> 33:28.620]  45% said Carnivore is good because it will allow the FBI a new way of tracking down criminals.
[33:28.720 --> 33:33.680]  While 45% said Carnivore is bad because it could be used to read email to and from ordinary citizens.
[33:34.060 --> 33:36.280]  4% said the system is both good and bad.
[33:36.360 --> 33:37.700]  And 6% didn't know.
[33:37.880 --> 33:42.160]  And the other 20% said they were vegetarian and the question didn't affect them.
[33:42.160 --> 33:47.920]  The Princeton Survey Research Associates conducted telephone interviews between February 1st and March 1st for the survey.
[33:48.300 --> 33:54.900]  The PU Internet and American Life Project is a non-profit initiative of the PU Charitable Trust.
[33:54.900 --> 34:02.320]  This is a Philadelphia-based Family Foundation forum to examine the impact of the Internet on society.
[34:02.320 --> 34:13.860]  The full report can be found at http colon slash slash www.puinternet.org slash report slash TLC dot ASP question mark report equals 32.
[34:17.180 --> 34:18.200]  Alright, I've had enough of that.
[34:18.280 --> 34:18.440]  Why?
[34:21.620 --> 34:22.200]  Yeah, I know.
[34:22.320 --> 34:24.420]  And the people who aren't even online are the most concerned.
[34:25.020 --> 34:28.540]  It's like, you know, looking up at the sky and saying, Them flying contraptions!
[34:28.700 --> 34:29.280]  Them dangerous!
[34:29.300 --> 34:30.590]  I think they should regulate them!
[34:32.080 --> 34:33.300]  Well, they should regulate them.
[34:33.340 --> 34:35.630]  Even without the accent, it's a similar sentence.
[34:36.000 --> 34:38.480]  Well, I put it in there for the effect.
[34:41.300 --> 34:46.740]  That dial tone means that it's time to show how frustrating things can get.
[34:46.860 --> 34:48.920]  And this past weekend was pretty damn frustrating.
[34:49.550 --> 34:55.440]  Because, well, you know, we had to deal with all these people, you know, coming in and out, you know, visiting, coming to the conference.
[34:56.130 --> 34:59.020]  And in one particular case, I had to deal with an airline.
[34:59.360 --> 34:59.800]  Uh-oh.
[34:59.800 --> 35:10.760]  And, you know, every time there's the slightest bit, you know, speaking of airplanes being regulated in the sky, Every time there's the slightest bit of wind, rain, anything, things get delayed.
[35:10.760 --> 35:15.570]  There's all kinds of work actions and airport conditions and things like that.
[35:15.570 --> 35:20.260]  So, we had a situation where someone was trying to get here.
[35:21.710 --> 35:26.780]  And basically, we had to get them to a particular part of that airport quickly.
[35:26.960 --> 35:31.880]  Because they were changing flight patterns and canceling flights.
[35:32.020 --> 35:35.200]  And I think the person had about 10 minutes to make a different flight.
[35:35.550 --> 35:42.570]  So, I'm trying to get information from a particular airline company.
[35:42.840 --> 35:43.260]  Okay.
[35:43.440 --> 35:46.440]  And I don't think I've ever experienced this kind of frustration in my life.
[35:47.320 --> 35:50.050]  And it all has to do with downsizing.
[35:50.280 --> 35:53.500]  With not having people working phones anymore.
[35:54.260 --> 35:54.980]  Have you noticed that?
[35:55.050 --> 35:56.630]  There are no more people anywhere.
[35:56.940 --> 35:57.610]  Well, they're there.
[35:57.630 --> 35:58.300]  You deal with computers.
[35:58.460 --> 35:58.550]  No.
[35:58.740 --> 35:59.570]  The people are gone.
[35:59.670 --> 36:00.480]  There are no more people.
[36:00.610 --> 36:02.280]  You have to jump through hoops for 50 minutes.
[36:02.300 --> 36:04.240]  Or say you have a rotary phone, but you'll get there.
[36:04.240 --> 36:05.480]  I was at a train station the other day.
[36:05.540 --> 36:06.500]  I was not taking the train.
[36:06.500 --> 36:07.400]  I will never do that again.
[36:07.550 --> 36:09.980]  But I was helping somebody buy a ticket.
[36:10.640 --> 36:11.000]  Alright.
[36:11.550 --> 36:13.130]  The train station has been closed.
[36:13.320 --> 36:14.940]  There is no more person inside the train station.
[36:14.940 --> 36:16.000]  There is only a machine.
[36:16.320 --> 36:16.440]  Okay.
[36:16.590 --> 36:20.760]  How long does it take to walk up to a man behind a booth and buy a ticket?
[36:22.140 --> 36:22.780]  20 seconds?
[36:23.000 --> 36:23.610]  30 tops?
[36:24.400 --> 36:28.520]  It took three and a half minutes for each ticket to buy the machine.
[36:28.800 --> 36:30.130]  Because you had to put all the money in.
[36:30.220 --> 36:31.360]  Sometimes the money came back out.
[36:31.420 --> 36:32.170]  You had to select the ticket.
[36:32.360 --> 36:33.340]  You had to select the right kind of ticket.
[36:33.440 --> 36:35.070]  You had to, you know, do you want a receipt?
[36:35.150 --> 36:35.550]  Yes, no.
[36:35.700 --> 36:36.440]  You know, wait for this.
[36:36.550 --> 36:37.200]  Beep, beep, you know.
[36:37.320 --> 36:40.800]  Well, the alternative is to spend two extra dollars for the surcharge and get it on the train.
[36:41.480 --> 36:41.880]  Yeah.
[36:42.500 --> 36:42.900]  Yeah.
[36:43.040 --> 36:45.110]  Because the vending machine was available at the...
[36:45.110 --> 36:47.050]  But then you're cutting into what...
[36:47.050 --> 36:47.460]  Well, actually, no.
[36:47.480 --> 36:50.720]  The conductor doesn't have to do anything anymore either because they replaced him with the automatic announcements.
[36:51.360 --> 36:51.880]  You know?
[36:51.980 --> 36:54.150]  Which would tell you what train you're on and what station you're approaching.
[36:54.260 --> 36:57.260]  And I've seen that information get screwed up a couple of times, too.
[36:57.420 --> 36:57.800]  That's amazing.
[36:57.820 --> 36:58.820]  It gives you totally the wrong thing.
[36:59.040 --> 37:01.880]  Now, I've taken the Long Island Railroad now twice in my life.
[37:02.070 --> 37:02.780]  Both this weekend.
[37:03.040 --> 37:03.220]  Uh-huh.
[37:03.220 --> 37:04.760]  And I already hate this stupid train.
[37:04.920 --> 37:05.050]  Yeah.
[37:05.840 --> 37:10.630]  I feel really bad for the people who have to listen to this announcement every day when they go to work.
[37:10.780 --> 37:10.920]  Yeah.
[37:11.260 --> 37:13.820]  I've taken trains in other parts of the world and they don't do things like that.
[37:13.940 --> 37:18.050]  And first of all, they go a lot faster and smoother, but they have real people that, you know, say things.
[37:19.360 --> 37:20.190]  Automation is just...
[37:20.190 --> 37:21.190]  It's such an ugly thing.
[37:22.050 --> 37:22.940]  You know, it can be good.
[37:22.940 --> 37:25.110]  When it replaces monotony.
[37:25.230 --> 37:27.860]  When it replaces really, really horrible jobs.
[37:28.000 --> 37:31.550]  Like, you know, factory jobs that, you know, people just get lost in.
[37:32.130 --> 37:36.230]  But things we interact with the public, I think that's, you know, not quite the same.
[37:36.460 --> 37:39.380]  You know, and it's actually a good thing to interact with human beings.
[37:39.460 --> 37:41.170]  Well, what do you think your customers would prefer?
[37:41.170 --> 37:43.570]  A smiling face or to get there five minutes earlier?
[37:43.710 --> 37:46.960]  What makes you think they get there five minutes earlier by having a computer?
[37:47.710 --> 37:49.710]  You know, how do these machines...
[37:49.710 --> 37:50.250]  I'm giving you the rationale.
[37:51.410 --> 37:52.880]  These machines at the stations.
[37:53.070 --> 37:55.400]  Not to, you know, harp on this for too long.
[37:55.650 --> 38:00.020]  But, you know, they don't give more than $9 and, what, 25 cents change?
[38:00.190 --> 38:00.320]  Yes.
[38:00.320 --> 38:02.400]  Which means if you have a $20 bill, you're screwed.
[38:03.050 --> 38:04.670]  Now, people have $20 bills.
[38:04.860 --> 38:06.050]  You know, that's what people use most of the time.
[38:06.050 --> 38:09.520]  But you can't use it on the damn machine because it won't give you more than a certain amount of change.
[38:09.690 --> 38:10.230]  You can actually use...
[38:10.230 --> 38:12.590]  And then, if you buy it on the train, you get a $2 penalty.
[38:12.590 --> 38:12.820]  Well...
[38:12.820 --> 38:14.520]  Not having the right kind of money.
[38:14.690 --> 38:15.000]  If...
[38:15.000 --> 38:18.520]  Well, I've dealt with conductors that have said, well, yeah, I understand.
[38:18.520 --> 38:19.980]  We can't give you that amount of change.
[38:19.980 --> 38:21.050]  And they waive the surcharge.
[38:21.430 --> 38:23.000]  They just waive the surcharge, huh?
[38:23.110 --> 38:24.090]  Well, they say, you know...
[38:24.090 --> 38:25.710]  I tell them, I had a $20 bill.
[38:25.710 --> 38:27.500]  I'm buying a 325 ticket.
[38:27.670 --> 38:30.290]  I'm not going to lose seven...
[38:30.290 --> 38:34.730]  But, I mean, why are the machines so dictatorial where they say, we're not going to give you this?
[38:34.900 --> 38:35.270]  Because we...
[38:35.270 --> 38:37.690]  And then they give you the damn coins, you know, for dollars.
[38:37.690 --> 38:38.290]  Well, the reason is...
[38:38.290 --> 38:39.360]  Which everybody thinks is a quarter.
[38:39.540 --> 38:42.020]  The machines only hold so many of those dollars.
[38:42.270 --> 38:45.590]  And if, you know, after five transactions, you lose all your dollars.
[38:45.590 --> 38:48.590]  Well, then, you know, maybe the machines are not as good as the people that can hold more.
[38:49.090 --> 38:49.460]  You know?
[38:49.460 --> 38:52.440]  Yes, but the machines are a lot cheaper to employ and don't exactly require health insurance.
[38:52.440 --> 38:53.540]  That's what it boils down to.
[38:53.690 --> 38:54.540]  But you know what?
[38:54.570 --> 38:55.090]  You know what?
[38:55.110 --> 39:00.460]  Since I got the machines, I have to say I'm very happy with the rate reductions that we've all enjoyed as a result of having the machines, right?
[39:00.460 --> 39:01.920]  There were rate reductions, weren't there?
[39:01.960 --> 39:03.110]  Because they're saving all this money?
[39:04.330 --> 39:07.710]  All right, let's show you what the nightmare I had to go through was like.
[39:07.900 --> 39:08.500]  Here's our dial tone.
[39:09.050 --> 39:09.340]  First...
[39:09.340 --> 39:12.150]  Oh, I don't know the phone number, so I've got to call information.
[39:14.170 --> 39:15.210]  Talk to the nice...
[39:15.210 --> 39:15.770]  This is...
[39:15.770 --> 39:17.210]  Chairfull information operator.
[39:17.380 --> 39:18.130]  Toll-free information?
[39:18.270 --> 39:19.130]  Yes, toll-free information.
[39:19.360 --> 39:19.710]  Here we go.
[39:23.830 --> 39:25.470]  Toll-free directory assistance.
[39:25.830 --> 39:28.230]  Please say just the name of the listing.
[39:28.730 --> 39:29.550]  American Airlines.
[39:30.770 --> 39:39.750]  The toll-free number for American Airlines reservations is 800-433-7300.
[39:40.170 --> 39:43.570]  If that was not the listing requested, press zero now.
[39:44.010 --> 39:44.330]  Again...
[39:44.330 --> 39:45.430]  What if I don't have a touch-tone phone?
[39:45.750 --> 39:46.070]  Number is...
[39:46.070 --> 39:48.390]  800-433-7300.
[39:49.090 --> 39:49.110]  Operator?
[39:49.110 --> 39:50.290]  Can I just ask you a question, operator?
[39:50.410 --> 39:51.470]  This is a matter of life and death.
[39:55.270 --> 39:56.070]  You see what I mean?
[39:56.250 --> 39:57.130]  Matter of life and death?
[39:57.230 --> 39:58.310]  This is the kind of response you get?
[39:59.150 --> 40:00.290]  All right, fine, fine, fine.
[40:00.710 --> 40:02.910]  Won't get any help from the automatic information operator.
[40:02.910 --> 40:05.050]  Let's go to American Airlines.
[40:08.320 --> 40:10.120]  Remember, I'm in a tremendous hurry here.
[40:14.290 --> 40:17.050]  Thank you for calling American Airlines.
[40:17.290 --> 40:19.710]  A proud member of the One World Alliance.
[40:20.250 --> 40:21.530]  Your call may be...
[40:21.530 --> 40:22.650]  What the hell is that?
[40:24.830 --> 40:28.370]  In addition to the fare information you receive on this call...
[40:28.370 --> 40:28.630]  Yeah, yeah.
[40:28.690 --> 40:30.170]  Can we speed it up a bit?
[40:30.330 --> 40:32.310]  I've got a friend waiting for a plane here.
[40:32.530 --> 40:38.530]  Or on our own website at www.aa.com.
[40:38.530 --> 40:40.510]  You know, if I was on the web, I'd...
[40:40.890 --> 40:44.790]  For today's flight arrival, departure, and gate information, press one.
[40:45.350 --> 40:46.370]  For domestic reservation...
[40:46.990 --> 40:47.010]  You know what?
[40:47.050 --> 40:47.170]  Okay.
[40:48.410 --> 40:49.490]  I'm too impatient.
[40:49.590 --> 40:50.870]  I'm just going to hit zero to get to an operator.
[40:51.670 --> 40:52.030]  There.
[40:52.570 --> 40:52.890]  Speed things up.
[40:52.890 --> 40:57.290]  For today's flight arrival, departure, and gate information, press one.
[40:57.290 --> 40:58.370]  I want an operator.
[40:59.110 --> 40:59.610]  Please.
[41:06.090 --> 41:06.910]  There we go.
[41:07.650 --> 41:08.790]  I feel better already.
[41:22.130 --> 41:24.670]  Actually, you know, this isn't doing the same thing it was doing on the weekend.
[41:24.790 --> 41:26.830]  This always happens to me when I try to demonstrate something.
[41:26.930 --> 41:28.330]  They always do something a little bit different.
[41:33.530 --> 41:35.650]  Thank you for calling American Airlines.
[41:36.250 --> 41:39.590]  All sales representatives are busy assisting other customers.
[41:40.370 --> 41:49.070]  You may obtain today's flight arrival and departure information from our automated dial-of-flight system at 1-800-242...
[41:49.610 --> 41:50.550]  This is just as bad.
[41:50.710 --> 41:51.110]  I'll say that.
[41:51.430 --> 41:52.250]  Ooh, dial-of-flight.
[41:52.290 --> 41:56.290]  ...or the American Airlines website at www...
[41:56.290 --> 41:56.890]  Again, the website.
[41:57.070 --> 41:57.870]  ...a .com.
[41:58.570 --> 42:04.670]  To speak to a sales representative, please hold, and your call will be answered in the order it was received.
[42:06.690 --> 42:08.930]  Only American offers more room throughout...
[42:08.930 --> 42:10.810]  Okay, you see, now this will just keep going on forever.
[42:11.550 --> 42:12.670]  This is not the way...
[42:13.290 --> 42:15.710]  Let me try this one more time, only because...
[42:15.710 --> 42:19.930]  I tried this so many times and it worked each time, and it's particularly frustrating.
[42:20.710 --> 42:23.650]  Maybe I have to hit the key a certain way.
[42:24.970 --> 42:29.430]  I did hit zero twice, so maybe that got me, uh, further along.
[42:29.630 --> 42:29.930]  Somewhere else.
[42:30.030 --> 42:30.190]  Yeah.
[42:30.210 --> 42:31.630]  Thank you for calling American...
[42:31.630 --> 42:32.910]  Okay, I'm gonna hit the zero now.
[42:33.530 --> 42:33.930]  There.
[42:34.530 --> 42:39.370]  For today's flight arrival, departure, and gate information, press one.
[42:39.490 --> 42:39.670]  No.
[42:39.970 --> 42:42.370]  For domestic reservations and fares...
[42:42.370 --> 42:43.290]  I'm gonna hit the zero again.
[42:43.970 --> 42:48.950]  While you are waiting for a representative, we would like to gather some travel information from you.
[42:49.030 --> 42:49.450]  Listen to this.
[42:49.610 --> 42:51.850]  Please speak your responses to the following questions.
[42:51.850 --> 42:52.610]  Speak your responses.
[42:52.610 --> 42:56.150]  After each question, you can say help for instructions.
[43:04.690 --> 43:07.970]  If you have an advantage number, please say it now.
[43:08.250 --> 43:09.970]  Otherwise, say continue.
[43:10.450 --> 43:11.670]  But I don't want to.
[43:11.750 --> 43:12.950]  I want to speak to an operator.
[43:13.670 --> 43:15.710]  They're forcing you to say words now.
[43:15.910 --> 43:17.270]  You know, you can't even hit keys.
[43:19.830 --> 43:20.670]  Please wait.
[43:20.850 --> 43:23.430]  The next available representative will assist you.
[43:23.630 --> 43:27.750]  One thing I am impressed with though, they can sense frustration because after...
[43:27.750 --> 43:29.010]  Several times I did this.
[43:29.610 --> 43:31.150]  And I would hit keys.
[43:31.390 --> 43:33.270]  And it would say, touch tones were detected.
[43:33.530 --> 43:34.070]  Please speak.
[43:34.190 --> 43:35.070]  Do not hit touch tones.
[43:35.170 --> 43:36.790]  You know, and it really got me crazy.
[43:36.970 --> 43:39.230]  And I screamed at the top of my lungs, I want an operator.
[43:39.250 --> 43:40.050]  I used some words too.
[43:40.070 --> 43:40.850]  I want an operator.
[43:41.290 --> 43:43.550]  And it said, hold on, I'll transfer you to an operator.
[43:43.650 --> 43:47.110]  So the speech recognition is getting better, but it's just their attitude that's getting worse.
[43:47.110 --> 43:50.510]  They actually wanted to submit you to a survey while you were waiting?
[43:50.530 --> 43:52.170]  A survey while I'm waiting, you know.
[43:52.630 --> 43:56.770]  And keep in mind, this is, you know, this was no like leisurely call here.
[43:56.890 --> 43:58.530]  I was trying to get information quickly.
[43:58.770 --> 44:06.350]  You know, and it could be worth it if at the end of the line, when you got to the human, that human had the information you've told the machine, but they never do.
[44:06.470 --> 44:06.850]  That's right.
[44:07.030 --> 44:08.430]  You know, I entered all this information.
[44:08.430 --> 44:12.290]  I actually went the first time, I entered everything.
[44:12.570 --> 44:17.690]  You know, I said where I was going to, where I was going from, and then it transferred me to a person who wanted all that information again.
[44:17.770 --> 44:19.810]  And I asked, why did I just tell the computer all this?
[44:19.850 --> 44:20.150]  And you know what?
[44:20.190 --> 44:20.890]  She hung up on me.
[44:21.230 --> 44:22.250]  I wasn't even nasty.
[44:22.470 --> 44:25.490]  I said, why did I just tell the computer all this if you don't have that information?
[44:25.590 --> 44:26.350]  And she just hung up.
[44:29.190 --> 44:36.710]  Anyway, we're going to, picking up our phone, 212-209-2900 if you have any comments, questions, or experiences of your own.
[44:37.370 --> 44:43.290]  Um, but yeah, that was part of the fun this weekend, Icon was an interesting...
[44:43.290 --> 44:45.050]  We had a lot of panels, too.
[44:45.190 --> 44:45.430]  Yes.
[44:45.770 --> 44:47.090]  Tell us about some of the panels we were on.
[44:47.250 --> 44:50.910]  Oh, uh, we had a Napster panel, which was somewhat interesting.
[44:51.170 --> 44:51.370]  No, we didn't.
[44:51.390 --> 44:51.950]  We weren't on the Napster panel.
[44:52.030 --> 44:52.990]  We were on the DECSS panel.
[44:53.090 --> 44:54.690]  Well, I was on the Napster panel.
[44:54.890 --> 44:54.910]  Okay.
[44:54.910 --> 44:58.170]  I was speaking opposite you on the DECSS panel.
[44:58.310 --> 45:00.110]  I was at Science vs.
[45:00.370 --> 45:02.330]  Morality, which was an interesting thing.
[45:02.350 --> 45:02.970]  Uh-huh, okay.
[45:03.210 --> 45:04.470]  That's appropriate for you to be on.
[45:05.710 --> 45:07.190]  Future Weapons was a lot of fun.
[45:09.030 --> 45:10.050]  Weapons are not fun.
[45:10.910 --> 45:13.230]  No, but we can argue about that in the hallway later.
[45:14.270 --> 45:16.170]  We had Fear of Hackers.
[45:16.390 --> 45:17.210]  We had...
[45:19.650 --> 45:23.330]  There was a bunch of various hacker-related things on the program.
[45:23.430 --> 45:28.870]  But the great thing is, as a speaker at ICON, you just kind of get the same schedule as everyone else does.
[45:29.030 --> 45:33.310]  So you know the title of the thing you're going to be speaking about, but you don't know where it was supposed to go.
[45:33.350 --> 45:34.390]  It's pretty much a free-for-all.
[45:34.470 --> 45:39.970]  So you get in the room, and then you have the audience there, and you just kind of say, well, this is supposed to be about fearing hackers.
[45:40.070 --> 45:41.150]  Is anyone afraid of hackers?
[45:41.310 --> 45:41.990]  No hands go up.
[45:42.210 --> 45:43.690]  Okay, so what do you want to talk about?
[45:44.890 --> 45:47.330]  And they just start asking questions, and it moves real well.
[45:48.570 --> 45:51.750]  It's a very amusing weekend, and I would encourage people to go next year.
[45:51.930 --> 45:57.850]  Yes, and I'm sure more information will be posted in weeks to come is what they're going to be doing.
[45:57.950 --> 45:59.090]  Then let's take some phone calls.
[45:59.150 --> 46:02.970]  212-209-2900 is our phone number here at Off the Hook.
[46:03.510 --> 46:04.230]  Good evening.
[46:04.430 --> 46:05.010]  You're on the air.
[46:05.850 --> 46:06.550]  Yes, hi.
[46:06.730 --> 46:08.190]  I have a quick question for you.
[46:08.450 --> 46:17.090]  Is it possible to adapt a business type of phone, a multi-line phone, to a home line?
[46:17.130 --> 46:20.090]  Because I have a phone that has many features I like.
[46:20.250 --> 46:22.450]  It has, like, speakerphone built in and some other stuff.
[46:23.510 --> 46:25.870]  But it doesn't use an RJ-11.
[46:25.990 --> 46:28.510]  It uses some larger type of jack.
[46:28.670 --> 46:28.910]  I don't know.
[46:28.990 --> 46:29.550]  Have you ever...
[46:29.550 --> 46:31.290]  Yeah, I think I know the jack you're talking about.
[46:31.430 --> 46:34.810]  It's sort of metallic, and it kind of snaps onto something that looks the same.
[46:34.830 --> 46:35.490]  Well, no, it looks...
[46:35.490 --> 46:38.830]  The jack looks similar to the RJ-11.
[46:38.950 --> 46:39.410]  It's just bigger.
[46:39.550 --> 46:41.610]  Instead of having four wires, it has eight.
[46:41.770 --> 46:42.790]  That's an RJ-45.
[46:43.090 --> 46:43.630]  Yeah, an RJ-45.
[46:43.790 --> 46:44.550]  Okay, an RJ-45.
[46:44.790 --> 46:46.370]  You're probably going to be out of luck.
[46:46.370 --> 46:54.270]  It is likely a set that is used specifically with a PBX that is at your place of business.
[46:55.690 --> 47:01.690]  A lot of those features, like transfer and hold and things like that, actually work down in the basement.
[47:02.130 --> 47:10.090]  Oh, no, I know that a lot of the features wouldn't be, you know, transferable, but I'm just thinking of, like, the speakerphone, and there's also an LCD screen.
[47:10.270 --> 47:11.750]  You know, maybe just a couple of the features.
[47:11.930 --> 47:14.850]  I was just wondering if you could actually connect the phone at all.
[47:14.850 --> 47:15.550]  Is it possible?
[47:16.030 --> 47:18.730]  Is there an RJ-45 to RJ-11 converter somewhere?
[47:19.450 --> 47:20.670]  I honestly couldn't tell you.
[47:20.750 --> 47:25.030]  I've never really tried, but I'm sure if you hop online and poke around a bit, you might find something.
[47:25.070 --> 47:27.310]  And I'm sure we'll get listeners replying to us.
[47:27.350 --> 47:27.450]  Okay, next what?
[47:27.590 --> 47:29.770]  All right, we'll throw that question open to you.
[47:29.770 --> 47:33.810]  Taking, like, a Meridian phone or a Merlin handset and putting it on a residential line.
[47:33.970 --> 47:38.290]  Actually, I know people have Merlin systems in their house, but they actually have the Merlin system in their house.
[47:38.410 --> 47:40.350]  They don't actually have it as a standalone instrument.
[47:40.670 --> 47:41.230]  I don't know.
[47:41.770 --> 47:41.930]  Hmm.
[47:42.390 --> 47:45.350]  Well, there might be a way to do this, but we'll just have to see.
[47:45.350 --> 47:47.110]  I suggest, no, but I'm not sure.
[47:48.770 --> 47:50.430]  Okay, 212-209-2900.
[47:50.510 --> 47:50.810]  Good evening.
[47:50.950 --> 47:51.470]  You're on the air.
[47:52.830 --> 47:53.450]  Speak up.
[47:54.130 --> 47:54.570]  Yeah.
[47:54.870 --> 47:55.010]  Go ahead.
[47:55.210 --> 48:01.410]  If that guy manages to plug his digital phone set into the analog line, it will toast the phone.
[48:01.410 --> 48:01.890]  Oh, yeah.
[48:02.310 --> 48:03.610]  Did he say it was digital?
[48:04.190 --> 48:05.730]  I don't think he said it was digital.
[48:05.890 --> 48:07.170]  Those PBXs are digital.
[48:07.390 --> 48:08.410]  It's got an RJ45.
[48:08.410 --> 48:09.510]  It most certainly is.
[48:09.670 --> 48:10.670]  That sounds about right.
[48:10.990 --> 48:11.190]  Okay.
[48:11.390 --> 48:13.630]  I guess that kind of makes sense.
[48:14.370 --> 48:14.510]  Okay.
[48:14.790 --> 48:17.850]  Thanks for that bit of warning there for the person.
[48:17.850 --> 48:24.150]  And I know we had that problem with Rome systems years ago, people plugging them into analog and trying to phone.
[48:24.150 --> 48:24.970]  That's a bad idea.
[48:25.150 --> 48:25.290]  Yeah.
[48:25.530 --> 48:25.870]  Good evening.
[48:25.970 --> 48:26.290]  You're on the air.
[48:26.730 --> 48:31.330]  Yeah, I have a story that recently happened to me with Pac Bell.
[48:31.550 --> 48:31.890]  Okay.
[48:32.590 --> 48:35.550]  I had Sprint Long Distance as my long-distance carrier.
[48:36.210 --> 48:40.090]  And a few weeks ago, I got my Pacific Bell bill in my email.
[48:40.570 --> 48:44.570]  And it said that I had AT&T Long Distance all of a sudden.
[48:44.890 --> 48:46.250]  And it was an extra $10.
[48:46.730 --> 48:51.490]  So I called Pacific Bell and asked them what happened.
[48:52.730 --> 48:56.270]  And I couldn't get an operator, so I talked to a recording.
[48:56.890 --> 49:00.250]  And it said to call AT&T.
[49:00.250 --> 49:04.550]  So I called AT&T, and I got another recording.
[49:04.930 --> 49:09.670]  It said, if your AT&T bill is on your Pacific Bell bill, you need to contact them.
[49:10.390 --> 49:13.190]  So basically, they had me contact each other.
[49:13.730 --> 49:17.070]  I finally contacted Pac Bell and asked them.
[49:17.910 --> 49:24.490]  I got to a person, and they transferred me over to AT&T, who then canceled the account.
[49:24.650 --> 49:28.950]  But they wouldn't answer my question when I asked, how did I get signed up?
[49:29.110 --> 49:29.970]  You've been slapped.
[49:29.970 --> 49:32.870]  Yeah, basically, we're switched without your permission or knowledge.
[49:33.190 --> 49:33.470]  Yeah.
[49:33.730 --> 49:35.050]  Who is your company supposed to be?
[49:35.090 --> 49:35.490]  Do you know that?
[49:35.970 --> 49:37.110]  It's supposed to be Sprint.
[49:37.410 --> 49:37.630]  Uh-huh.
[49:37.710 --> 49:42.350]  You might want to contact them, because they take a keen interest when their customers are stolen.
[49:42.870 --> 49:43.170]  Okay.
[49:43.550 --> 49:45.310]  You know, I find that's a...
[49:45.310 --> 49:47.030]  Get them to work for you, because...
[49:47.030 --> 49:47.470]  They'll fight for you.
[49:47.630 --> 49:47.810]  Yeah.
[49:48.010 --> 49:55.990]  Well, they're fighting for themselves, but the point is, you know, if they know that their customers are being stolen, they're going to want to know the names and numbers, and so they can, you know, go to court against AT&T.
[49:56.670 --> 49:59.230]  Or whoever it is that did it, it's possible Pac-Bell did it, too.
[49:59.690 --> 49:59.870]  Yeah.
[50:00.770 --> 50:05.770]  Okay, well, I asked Pacific Bell who they had for my long-distance carrier, and they said it was Sprint, so...
[50:05.770 --> 50:06.290]  All right, so...
[50:06.290 --> 50:07.830]  So wait, Pac-Bell had Sprint?
[50:08.030 --> 50:08.390]  Yeah.
[50:08.670 --> 50:10.070]  But you were getting a bill from AT&T?
[50:10.250 --> 50:12.130]  Yeah, attached to my Pacific Bell bill.
[50:12.890 --> 50:15.370]  That's kind of weird, and you only have one phone line?
[50:15.650 --> 50:15.910]  Yes.
[50:16.790 --> 50:21.530]  Well, did you ask the Pac-Bell representative, if my phone company is Sprint, why am I getting an AT&T bill?
[50:23.030 --> 50:29.730]  Yeah, I did, and they said, I'm not sure, but we'll clear you of your charges and give you credits towards your bill.
[50:30.250 --> 50:33.070]  Was that particular page, was that regular phone calls?
[50:33.110 --> 50:34.190]  Was it a collect call, maybe?
[50:34.790 --> 50:36.410]  Um, it didn't say...
[50:36.410 --> 50:41.410]  I get the bill in my email, and it didn't say...
[50:42.110 --> 50:43.690]  Like, no calls were made on it.
[50:43.770 --> 50:49.170]  It just was like a $10 charge for a 7 cents a minute plan, like a monthly rate plan.
[50:49.610 --> 50:53.750]  You know, sometimes they keep you on the plans even after you've switched to other companies.
[50:53.750 --> 50:54.530]  It does happen.
[50:54.730 --> 50:56.250]  I've seen that happen a few times.
[50:56.290 --> 51:01.010]  I've seen bills come in for lines that are no longer connected to the phone company, so you do have to check these things.
[51:01.190 --> 51:05.630]  But I always suggest people get a paper printout so that they know exactly what it is they're dealing with.
[51:05.690 --> 51:07.290]  These email bills just don't work for me.
[51:07.290 --> 51:08.790]  Yeah, that's an encrypted email, right?
[51:09.510 --> 51:10.350]  Well, that too.
[51:10.670 --> 51:10.950]  Yeah.
[51:11.370 --> 51:12.550]  Yeah, that's another problem.
[51:13.010 --> 51:14.290]  Anyway, thanks for the call.
[51:14.370 --> 51:14.930]  Good luck with that.
[51:15.150 --> 51:18.270]  But, yeah, I tried that a couple of times, and it just did not work out.
[51:18.350 --> 51:18.910]  The email bills?
[51:19.310 --> 51:20.010]  Yeah, they...
[51:20.010 --> 51:22.630]  You know, you lose it after a while.
[51:22.630 --> 51:25.870]  You don't have a real sense of having a phone bill.
[51:26.170 --> 51:27.670]  You know, you don't have something that's permanent.
[51:28.310 --> 51:30.490]  So it's better to get, you know, something on paper.
[51:30.590 --> 51:31.090]  Get the paper.
[51:31.250 --> 51:32.030]  Yeah, can't hurt.
[51:32.310 --> 51:32.870]  Kill a tree.
[51:33.530 --> 51:34.470]  Well, that can hurt.
[51:34.610 --> 51:34.990]  All right, good evening.
[51:35.070 --> 51:35.430]  You're on the air.
[51:36.170 --> 51:36.570]  Oh, yeah.
[51:36.950 --> 51:41.450]  I sent you an email during the week about the...
[51:41.450 --> 51:44.990]  I don't know if you got it, about the Microsoft online privacy policy.
[51:45.650 --> 51:46.670]  Why don't you tell us about it?
[51:47.510 --> 51:53.330]  Basically, their new privacy policy is anything that you send through their system, like Hotmail and...
[51:53.330 --> 51:53.570]  Right.
[51:53.770 --> 51:54.090]  Results.
[51:55.050 --> 51:56.830]  ...that they own the rights to it.
[51:57.050 --> 51:57.750]  Now, hold on a second.
[51:57.870 --> 52:04.750]  You're saying if you send somebody a picture through Hotmail, they now own the picture.
[52:04.930 --> 52:05.210]  Exactly.
[52:05.530 --> 52:22.010]  I'm saying that if you send them copyrighted, patented, trademarked material through their system, they explicitly say that that means that them and their partner companies share in the rights to it.
[52:22.090 --> 52:22.530]  Well, now, wait a minute.
[52:22.610 --> 52:24.810]  I have Microsoft products on my computer.
[52:24.930 --> 52:27.490]  Does that mean that I now own their trademarks as well?
[52:27.490 --> 52:28.710]  I mean, it's on my system.
[52:28.710 --> 52:29.890]  That's not the way they see it.
[52:30.470 --> 52:32.910]  I'm a little confused as to what they're smoking.
[52:33.170 --> 52:43.010]  Well, they say you take a very nice picture of your car up against a desert landscape and you send it to your buddy at the auto magazine using your Hotmail account.
[52:43.530 --> 52:43.710]  Right.
[52:43.730 --> 52:50.850]  Microsoft has the claims that they now have right to use that photograph in any way they should see it.
[52:50.850 --> 52:51.390]  First of all...
[52:51.390 --> 52:53.710]  And sell it to the automobile company.
[52:53.710 --> 52:56.350]  What are they doing reading your mail in the first place?
[52:56.350 --> 52:57.990]  That was my question.
[52:58.270 --> 52:58.990]  I mean...
[52:58.990 --> 53:00.030]  Why are they looking through the mail?
[53:00.130 --> 53:13.790]  But they do explicitly say that if you send any information they have the rights to, whether it's including information that's patented, copyrighted, trademarked, or otherwise, you know, you have rights to.
[53:14.030 --> 53:17.830]  They figure that you're essentially giving them...
[53:17.830 --> 53:20.050]  you're selling them the rights to the...
[53:20.050 --> 53:22.030]  In exchange for using their service.
[53:22.050 --> 53:22.510]  Precisely.
[53:22.970 --> 53:24.050]  This is amazing.
[53:24.050 --> 53:27.270]  And how can they even think they can get away with something like that?
[53:27.390 --> 53:35.910]  If you go to passport.com and look at their terms of use, you'll see that this is the new and updated Microsoft terms of use.
[53:36.030 --> 53:37.090]  What section is it in?
[53:37.490 --> 53:40.570]  I don't have the URL in front of me now, but I'm sure you can...
[53:41.470 --> 53:45.050]  Like I said, I know I emailed it to off-the-hook at 2600.
[53:45.430 --> 53:45.730]  Okay.
[53:45.930 --> 53:58.850]  Apple used to have something similar when they tried to do their iDisk silliness, and a bunch of people actually read the license, and Apple goes, Oh, geez, we didn't even know it was written like that, and fired half their lawyers.
[54:00.150 --> 54:03.510]  Well, I think this is something that people definitely need to challenge them on.
[54:03.650 --> 54:04.770]  It's just... it's unbelievable.
[54:04.930 --> 54:07.690]  Or just switch to Yahoo, which is a better, more secure service anyway.
[54:08.090 --> 54:11.290]  Well, possibly, but, you know, what's to stop them from saying the same thing?
[54:11.390 --> 54:14.410]  You know, what's to stop all the free email services from suddenly doing this?
[54:14.570 --> 54:16.290]  Well, most of them aren't Microsoft yet.
[54:16.290 --> 54:16.370]  Yeah.
[54:16.910 --> 54:17.250]  All right.
[54:17.310 --> 54:18.730]  Well, let's get this out there.
[54:18.890 --> 54:20.590]  And you say it's on passport.com.
[54:20.730 --> 54:21.170]  Are you online?
[54:22.130 --> 54:24.570]  The terms of service is at passport.com.
[54:24.730 --> 54:27.310]  I'm not sure where else it's posted, but that's where it was sent to me at.
[54:27.570 --> 54:27.850]  Okay.
[54:27.930 --> 54:28.670]  Well, we're online now.
[54:28.810 --> 54:32.350]  We're going to look it up and see if we can find something and hopefully read it by the end of the show.
[54:32.910 --> 54:34.130]  But, yeah, that's...
[54:34.590 --> 54:39.590]  I hate to say it's typical, but, yeah, that kind of thing does happen if you're not careful.
[54:40.190 --> 54:41.090]  Let's go over here.
[54:41.310 --> 54:41.790]  Good evening.
[54:42.010 --> 54:42.570]  You're on the air.
[54:42.730 --> 54:42.890]  Whoops.
[54:43.730 --> 54:44.230]  Let's do that again.
[54:44.350 --> 54:44.590]  Good evening.
[54:44.670 --> 54:45.090]  You're on the air.
[54:45.690 --> 54:46.010]  Hi.
[54:46.290 --> 54:46.470]  Hi.
[54:46.530 --> 54:46.790]  What's up?
[54:47.190 --> 54:49.710]  I'm just listening right now about switching to Yahoo.
[54:49.710 --> 54:50.470]  It might be safer.
[54:50.710 --> 54:50.910]  Uh-huh.
[54:51.290 --> 54:53.530]  I don't know exactly how much safer it will be.
[54:53.650 --> 55:02.990]  I know that they own Geocities now, and anything that you put on your Geocities website, artwork, stories, anything, automatically belongs to them, too, which is why I'm trying to switch off of it.
[55:03.130 --> 55:03.350]  Really?
[55:03.490 --> 55:04.650]  Well, at least that's a website.
[55:04.770 --> 55:06.350]  At least that's something that's publicly seeable.
[55:06.490 --> 55:12.130]  But to say that email, which is supposed to be private, that they own that and the contents within, that's insane.
[55:12.530 --> 55:13.770]  Don't defend Geocities.
[55:13.870 --> 55:14.670]  No, I'm not defending them.
[55:14.690 --> 55:17.310]  I'm just saying, you know, it's a lesser evil.
[55:17.510 --> 55:19.550]  It's still pretty damn evil, but it's a lesser evil.
[55:20.350 --> 55:25.950]  But, yeah, that's what happens, you know, when you give the power to these companies to just, you know, use as they...
[55:25.950 --> 55:32.710]  Imagine if we did the same thing, you know, as individuals, if we took ownership of anything that passed through our connections.
[55:33.110 --> 55:34.290]  It would, you know...
[55:34.290 --> 55:35.230]  I mean, it is bizarre.
[55:35.350 --> 55:36.030]  It strikes us as bizarre.
[55:36.170 --> 55:37.670]  It would never stand up in court either.
[55:37.790 --> 55:38.230]  Of course not.
[55:38.270 --> 55:39.310]  And I can't see this...
[55:39.310 --> 55:41.910]  Even with my cynicism, I can't see this standing up in court.
[55:42.610 --> 55:43.330]  Anything else, caller?
[55:44.650 --> 55:45.470]  Um, that's it.
[55:45.470 --> 55:46.710]  I just wanted to say hi, I guess.
[55:46.890 --> 55:47.750]  Okay, thanks for calling.
[55:48.050 --> 55:50.050]  I was one of the gophers at Stony Brook this weekend.
[55:50.230 --> 55:50.650]  Oh, really?
[55:50.890 --> 55:52.630]  Yeah, I was hanging out with you guys a little bit anyway.
[55:52.890 --> 55:53.090]  Great.
[55:53.150 --> 55:55.030]  Well, we couldn't have done it without all the gophers.
[55:55.230 --> 55:55.970]  Thank you for the water.
[55:56.530 --> 55:56.770]  Yes.
[55:56.990 --> 55:57.190]  Bye.
[55:57.470 --> 55:58.130]  All right, take care.
[56:00.130 --> 56:00.490]  That's...
[56:00.850 --> 56:01.790]  Scare, you find anything yet?
[56:02.310 --> 56:03.250]  I'm still looking.
[56:03.390 --> 56:03.570]  Okay.
[56:03.650 --> 56:06.270]  I saw their privacy policy and it's got to be somewhere in here.
[56:06.410 --> 56:07.950]  You're on passport.com, right?
[56:07.950 --> 56:09.070]  All right, keep looking.
[56:09.210 --> 56:09.970]  Good evening, you're on the air.
[56:11.390 --> 56:13.230]  Hi, you were talking about the railroad.
[56:13.490 --> 56:14.190]  Uh-huh, you were?
[56:14.270 --> 56:19.130]  I was wondering if you'd been in one of the new automated stations at closing time, even though there are no people there.
[56:19.150 --> 56:20.770]  Yes, I have, years ago.
[56:21.050 --> 56:23.290]  Wait, what line are we talking about here?
[56:24.050 --> 56:24.430]  Mineola.
[56:24.910 --> 56:25.890]  Okay, on the LIRR.
[56:26.170 --> 56:26.410]  Yes.
[56:26.490 --> 56:26.690]  That's right.
[56:27.670 --> 56:28.370]  Closing time?
[56:28.530 --> 56:29.710]  First, I didn't know stations closed.
[56:29.710 --> 56:31.190]  It's closed, even though there are no workers.
[56:31.990 --> 56:32.850]  Okay, what happens?
[56:33.170 --> 56:38.290]  Well, a light flashes on and off and a buzzer sounds like a car alarm.
[56:38.710 --> 56:46.430]  And then there's a recorded announcement that you have five minutes to leave the station or the doors will automatically lock and the police will be called.
[56:46.770 --> 56:47.050]  Right.
[56:47.290 --> 56:48.370]  Wait a minute, hold on, hold on.
[56:48.570 --> 56:50.770]  First of all, the doors will lock.
[56:50.770 --> 56:52.810]  I assume they'll lock from the inside and you won't be able to get out.
[56:53.130 --> 56:53.490]  Is that what they're saying?
[56:53.490 --> 56:55.170]  Well, there is a green emergency button.
[56:55.670 --> 56:58.370]  Okay, but how does it know to call the police?
[56:58.370 --> 56:59.670]  I guess it's automatic.
[56:59.950 --> 57:02.630]  I guess something automatically goes off in the local precinct.
[57:03.110 --> 57:07.530]  So if it detects motion in the station, it'll call the police?
[57:07.770 --> 57:08.830]  I believe so.
[57:09.050 --> 57:09.570]  I don't know.
[57:10.150 --> 57:20.230]  They close at like 8, so at around 7.50, the light starts flashing and they'll start like making silly sounds and then you're sitting there in the waiting room with everyone else looking at each other, wondering what's going on.
[57:20.590 --> 57:23.510]  And then five minutes later, the announcement comes on.
[57:23.750 --> 57:26.550]  The station will be closing in five minutes.
[57:26.550 --> 57:27.850]  You must leave.
[57:28.070 --> 57:31.270]  If you're in the station after the doors lock, the police will be called.
[57:31.670 --> 57:40.030]  This may be a really stupid question, but if the station is not monitored by any human beings, why is it necessary for it to close?
[57:40.250 --> 57:41.430]  That would be my question.
[57:41.590 --> 57:44.670]  I assume they don't want the homeless, God forbid, being in there.
[57:46.430 --> 57:47.110]  Oh, boy.
[57:47.730 --> 57:52.730]  Okay, well, I think the theme this week is the evils of automation.
[57:52.870 --> 57:54.470]  Thanks for that little tidbit there.
[57:54.570 --> 57:55.070]  You got something?
[57:55.170 --> 57:55.490]  What do you got?
[57:55.650 --> 57:56.630]  License to Microsoft.
[57:56.830 --> 58:12.230]  By posting messages, uploading files, and putting data, submitting any feedback or suggestions, or engaging in any other form of communication with or through the Passport website, you are and represent that your own and otherwise control of rights necessary to do so and are granting Microsoft and its affiliated companies permission to,
[58:12.410 --> 58:21.410]  number one, use, modify, distribute, transmit, publicly display, publicly perform, reproduce, publish, sub-license, create derivative works from, transfer, or sell any such communication.
[58:22.050 --> 58:29.050]  Two, sub-license the third parties, the unrestricted right to exercise any of the foregoing rights granted with respect to that communication.
[58:29.530 --> 58:32.390]  And three, publish your name and connection with any such communication.
[58:32.750 --> 58:33.190]  Question.
[58:33.530 --> 58:38.870]  Now, the very beginning that you read there sounded to me like they're saying posting messages, doing things on a website.
[58:39.290 --> 58:40.870]  Is there really anything there that implies email?
[58:40.870 --> 58:48.830]  Posting messages, uploading files, inputting data, submitting any feedback or suggestions, or engaging in any other form of communication with or through the Passport website.
[58:49.010 --> 58:50.530]  So you take that to mean email as well?
[58:50.730 --> 58:51.890]  I don't think...
[58:51.890 --> 58:54.710]  Well, if email goes on the Passport website...
[58:54.710 --> 58:55.030]  Hotmail.
[58:55.390 --> 58:56.830]  Hotmail uses Passport.
[58:57.070 --> 58:57.330]  Yeah.
[58:58.030 --> 59:00.670]  I think we need some clarification on that first and foremost.
[59:00.850 --> 59:11.470]  The foregoing grant shall include the right to exploit any proprietary rights in such communication, including but not limited to rights under copyright, trademark, service mark, or patent law under any relevant jurisdiction.
[59:11.470 --> 59:16.330]  No compensation will be paid with respect to Microsoft's use of the materials contained within such communication.
[59:16.630 --> 59:22.670]  Microsoft is under no obligation to post or use any materials that you provide or may remove such materials at any time at Microsoft's whole discretion.
[59:22.790 --> 59:30.190]  Well, you're under no obligation to use Microsoft, but we are under obligation to leave and also to let people know about things like this, which we will continue to do.
[59:30.490 --> 59:32.650]  We'll be back in next week with some updates on this.
[59:32.730 --> 59:40.890]  If you want to write to us, that's O-T-H at 2600.com or off the hook here of WBAI, 120 Wall Street, New York, New York, 1-0-0-0-5.
[59:41.470 --> 59:42.950]  2,600 meeting Friday.
[59:43.170 --> 59:43.450]  Oh, yeah.
[59:43.530 --> 59:44.270]  This is Friday, isn't it?
[59:44.410 --> 59:48.230]  Yeah, at CitiCorp and throughout the world, Friday from 5 to 8, unless otherwise noted.
[59:48.810 --> 59:53.750]  And you can read up on that on www.2600.com slash meetings.
[59:54.110 --> 59:54.690]  See you next week.
[59:54.790 --> 59:54.950]  Good night.
[01:00:46.530 --> 01:00:55.270]  We live in a time of political correctness when governments talk about righting the wrongs of the past and compensating the victims of various atrocities.
[01:00:55.850 --> 01:01:02.290]  We notice that Japanese, Canadians and jews around the world have received compensation for past suffering.
[01:01:02.550 --> 01:01:10.390]  But we notice too that native Canadians and other aboriginal peoples wage an ongoing struggle for compensation and justice.
[01:01:10.930 --> 01:01:14.810]  We say it's time to put Africans in the mix.
[01:01:15.270 --> 01:01:18.210]  It's time for reparations.
[01:01:20.250 --> 01:01:27.110]  And as we approach the 9 o'clock hour, we will be checking out a little bit of King Cosmos.
[01:01:27.490 --> 01:01:32.250]  Up next, Tahir with Barbara Nimri Aziz.
[01:01:32.570 --> 01:01:41.170]  Time for reparations Come sing it Time for reparations
[01:01:44.740 --> 01:02:00.380]  They say that slavery was so long ago We should be so upset Some black people even believe it, too They say, forgive and forget But other groups challenge kita fs y