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[00:06.040 --> 00:11.260]  right here at 99.5 FM, WBAI, New York City.
[00:15.060 --> 00:25.340]  Let me also pay my respects to the coalition commanders that I just met and to the members of the armed forces that are here side by side with the United States.
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[01:19.000 --> 01:19.860]  And more?
[01:20.300 --> 01:21.180]  My goodness.
[01:21.980 --> 01:32.120]  Yeah, it's a typical, uh, plate filled with topics on a typical show here on WBAI New York, where there's another typical program like that coming your way in just a moment.
[01:32.120 --> 01:33.760]  It's called Off the Hook.
[01:40.710 --> 02:03.050]  The telephone keeps ringing So I ripped it off the wall I cut myself while shaving Now I can't make a call It couldn't get much worse Bumbin' LeBomb But the best expect the worst I hope that's understood Bumbin' LeBomb
[02:22.890 --> 02:34.050]  And the program is Off the Hook It's Emmanuel Goldstein here with you for the next hour And since we have so many things to cover tonight We're going to, uh, try to cover them as quickly as possible Because the hour always just goes so fast, doesn't it,
[02:34.150 --> 02:34.290]  Isaac?
[02:34.530 --> 02:48.150]  Flies right by Like some kind of supersonic jet, which you'd probably hear about on weaponry But we do a lot about it We do a lot in our hour Yeah, we sure do We cover as much as we possibly can And, of course, we welcome phone calls later on in the show Uh,
[02:48.590 --> 02:56.810]  sad week Sad, uh, last couple of days The, uh, death of Joey Ramone I don't know if that means anything to you, Isaac Not particularly Oh, well...
[02:56.810 --> 03:09.210]  I'm sorry The Ramones were a group I, I, I saw several times In fact, I even interviewed them once Which was, uh, quite an experience And, uh, Joey Ramone And you might not know this He actually lived in the same apartment building as Fiber Optic for a little while Really?
[03:09.550 --> 03:10.930]  Yeah At the same time, or?
[03:11.130 --> 03:22.750]  Uh, at the same time, yeah They'd occasionally pass each other in the hallway Cool And, um, I don't know what kinds of words were exchanged If anything was exchanged But, uh, just people saw him in the city I mean, he lived right here in New York And,
[03:22.930 --> 03:34.590]  um, you know, he's like nine feet tall So it's somebody that you recognize pretty, pretty apparently But it's just really sad to, uh, think that this person's gone And, of course, the band gone with him Because he was the voice of the band But, you know,
[03:34.630 --> 03:44.410]  what I find to be even more unsettling Is the fact that even after an icon like that has passed You still can't hear the music on the radio You know?
[03:44.630 --> 04:02.370]  This was, this was a band that started back in the 70s You know, the, the late 70s Actually, the mid-70s I think 1974 was when they got together And, of course, it wasn't played then Because it was, you know, this, this punk rock type of a thing Um, you would think as they got more and more popular They'd be played And,
[04:02.510 --> 04:17.990]  you know, some college stations played them But now, of course, the college stations won't play them Because they're too old And, uh, you know, it's, it's, it's not, um He's lost in the music limbo Right, so, so I'm, I'm, I'm going through the radio dial Trying to find the song by the Ramones And I can't find it on the commercial radio Because they,
[04:18.010 --> 04:23.530]  they are playing 70s music That, you know, the, the, the really popular stuff Or this, you know, horrible stuff they have these days.
[04:24.210 --> 04:27.390]  And the college stations won't play it because it's, you know, it's passe.
[04:28.530 --> 04:30.790]  And, you know, I'm talking to people on the internet about this.
[04:30.890 --> 04:33.370]  You know, in IRC, various chat rooms.
[04:33.530 --> 04:35.230]  And I'm telling people about the Ramones.
[04:35.350 --> 04:38.530]  And these kids that never have heard the Ramones want to hear the Ramones.
[04:38.630 --> 04:39.150]  They want to know...
[04:39.590 --> 04:40.530]  Who was this man?
[04:40.590 --> 04:41.250]  Who do they sound like?
[04:41.330 --> 04:42.070]  What do they sound like?
[04:42.530 --> 04:43.790]  And they can't hear on the radio?
[04:44.070 --> 04:45.150]  So what do you think we do?
[04:46.250 --> 04:46.610]  Napster!
[04:46.610 --> 04:47.670]  Napster comes to the rescue.
[04:47.870 --> 04:48.970]  You know, this is how you hear...
[04:48.970 --> 04:50.870]  This is what it's all about.
[04:51.010 --> 04:54.310]  This is how you hear music that you can't just get.
[04:54.490 --> 04:58.370]  You know, you can't just run out to the store and buy it if, you know, it's 3 o'clock in the morning.
[04:59.130 --> 05:00.030]  You know, this guy died.
[05:00.130 --> 05:00.950]  You want to hear what he sounds like.
[05:01.030 --> 05:04.110]  Well, of course, Napster blocked every single reference to the Ramones.
[05:04.210 --> 05:05.010]  There's no way to hear them there.
[05:05.150 --> 05:07.110]  Either the one legitimate use I can think of of the service.
[05:07.650 --> 05:08.610]  And it failed us.
[05:09.150 --> 05:10.290]  Thanks to the U.S.
[05:10.350 --> 05:13.490]  courts and all kinds of greed and the record company industry.
[05:13.670 --> 05:19.110]  But, fortunately, we have WBAI in New York where we have a Ramones record that we brought in.
[05:19.250 --> 05:23.490]  We're just going to play a very short piece, just so people can hear the sound.
[05:24.290 --> 05:28.150]  If you're one of the people out there that don't know what the Ramones sounded like, and also as kind of a tribute.
[05:29.670 --> 05:34.270]  And we're not going to play one of the popular songs.
[05:34.550 --> 05:40.070]  You know, popular within a group of people, you know, that listen to that kind of music.
[05:41.090 --> 05:46.050]  But, this song, I find to be interesting because it's got a very interesting title.
[05:46.230 --> 05:46.630]  You know what it's called?
[05:47.650 --> 05:48.050]  Not a clue.
[05:48.570 --> 05:54.210]  53rd and 3rd, which happens to be the address of the 2600 meetings at the City Corp Center.
[05:54.430 --> 05:56.190]  Yeah, like 53rd Street and 3rd Avenue.
[05:56.870 --> 05:58.430]  This song is not about that.
[05:59.090 --> 05:59.270]  Oh.
[05:59.490 --> 06:01.390]  This song actually came out well before that.
[06:01.650 --> 06:03.290]  It's probably about drugs or something.
[06:03.490 --> 06:04.530]  I'm not really sure.
[06:06.530 --> 06:07.830]  I didn't really investigate.
[06:08.050 --> 06:08.690]  It's probably about...
[06:08.690 --> 06:08.950]  Okay.
[06:09.110 --> 06:13.090]  Well, I mean, you know, I don't think it's about traffic cops or, you know, intersections or things like that.
[06:14.310 --> 06:18.390]  So, we're going to listen to that song and then we're going to continue with the rest of the program.
[06:18.390 --> 06:23.070]  The Ramones with a song you may never have heard before, 53rd and 3rd, here on Off The Hook.
[06:29.670 --> 06:33.770]  If you think it can win, come on, man.
[06:33.950 --> 06:35.730]  Oh, what's the green room great?
[06:36.110 --> 06:37.370]  See ya, hey.
[06:37.590 --> 06:39.550]  I think no more of y'all.
[06:40.190 --> 06:41.270]  Very sorry.
[06:41.730 --> 06:43.530]  Cause I got my...
[06:44.090 --> 06:44.990]  On the forest.
[06:46.050 --> 06:48.510]  573, standing on the street.
[06:49.610 --> 06:52.030]  573, I'm trying to turn a trick.
[06:53.130 --> 06:55.630]  573, you're the one they ever pick.
[06:56.690 --> 06:58.430]  573, trying to make a...
[06:58.430 --> 06:59.150]  feel safe.
[06:59.510 --> 07:01.070]  If you think it can win.
[07:01.650 --> 07:02.630]  Come on, man.
[07:02.970 --> 07:04.570]  Oh, what's the green room great?
[07:05.150 --> 07:06.210]  See ya, hey.
[07:06.410 --> 07:08.390]  I think no more of y'all.
[07:08.970 --> 07:10.070]  Very sorry.
[07:10.530 --> 07:12.730]  Cause I got my...
[07:12.730 --> 07:13.770]  On the forest.
[07:15.150 --> 07:17.330]  573, standing on the street.
[07:18.530 --> 07:20.790]  593, I'm trying to turn a trick.
[07:22.030 --> 07:24.390]  573, you're the one they never pick.
[07:25.550 --> 07:27.430]  573, trying to make a...
[07:27.430 --> 07:27.830]  snel6.
[07:28.010 --> 07:28.890]  992, I'm trying to make a blackmail sick.
[07:28.890 --> 07:31.450]  Then I took out my Bacerslade.
[07:31.810 --> 07:55.860]  And to the spindle up, and to the Fifty, dad and dad, you're the one they never been, fifty, dad and dad gotta make aこ...
[08:40.050 --> 08:41.890]  Yeah, you thought that false stop would get me here.
[08:42.050 --> 08:43.110]  Yeah, it stopped right in the middle of it.
[08:43.110 --> 08:44.170]  No, I'm used to that kind of thing.
[08:44.410 --> 08:48.250]  So, the Ramones there with 53rd and 3rd, a tribute to Joey Ramones.
[08:50.170 --> 08:52.410]  And just really sad to see people go like that.
[08:54.170 --> 08:55.530]  Okay, we have some happy news.
[08:55.790 --> 08:58.470]  I'm going to reach into the old magic bag of tricks here.
[08:59.150 --> 09:00.090]  And look what I have.
[09:00.610 --> 09:03.930]  It's a brand new edition of 2600 Magazine, the Hacker Quarterly.
[09:03.990 --> 09:04.370]  Here, catch.
[09:05.530 --> 09:08.010]  I don't throw it at you that hard to hurt you.
[09:08.130 --> 09:09.410]  It's just I want to make sure it gets over there.
[09:09.550 --> 09:09.870]  Oh, okay.
[09:10.150 --> 09:11.710]  There's a lot of resistance from the air there.
[09:11.870 --> 09:12.950]  Doesn't that cover beat all?
[09:12.950 --> 09:15.350]  That's the most amazing cover I think we've had in ages.
[09:15.350 --> 09:15.750]  That's pretty cool.
[09:16.030 --> 09:17.990]  I mean, you just would not believe something like that would happen.
[09:18.070 --> 09:18.730]  Hold it up to the microphone.
[09:19.350 --> 09:20.750]  Yeah, everyone take a look.
[09:20.970 --> 09:26.310]  This is the kind of thing that we strive to accomplish and to show people.
[09:26.310 --> 09:27.370]  Because it needs to be seen.
[09:27.530 --> 09:28.050]  This is true.
[09:28.150 --> 09:28.950]  This is fact.
[09:28.950 --> 09:30.350]  This is what it's all about.
[09:31.810 --> 09:34.010]  So, yeah, it's pretty cool.
[09:34.290 --> 09:35.450]  This is a real photograph?
[09:35.650 --> 09:36.250]  Oh, yeah, absolutely.
[09:36.250 --> 09:37.770]  We don't doctor our photographs.
[09:38.150 --> 09:38.790]  Absolutely not.
[09:40.010 --> 09:41.590]  We don't mess around.
[09:41.830 --> 09:42.550]  We don't mess around.
[09:42.670 --> 09:43.650]  But anyway, enough about that.
[09:45.110 --> 09:49.310]  I'm sure people are very excited about this particular magazine and this particular cover.
[09:49.730 --> 09:50.850]  We don't want to dwell on it, though.
[09:51.330 --> 09:52.130]  So let's move on.
[09:52.250 --> 09:53.310]  Are you ready to play, Isaac?
[09:53.950 --> 09:55.630]  I'm ready to play what?
[09:55.710 --> 09:56.090]  Oh, that's right.
[09:56.150 --> 09:58.370]  I neglected to tell you about this before the show.
[09:58.470 --> 09:58.810]  I'm sorry.
[09:59.010 --> 10:00.270]  Well, you have a habit of doing that.
[10:00.270 --> 10:04.350]  Yeah, it's funny because we were sitting here for about 45 minutes not saying a word to each other before the show.
[10:04.510 --> 10:07.290]  And I guess that would have been a good opportunity to bring it up.
[10:07.690 --> 10:08.650]  That's how we work, though.
[10:08.870 --> 10:09.710]  We've been doing that for years.
[10:09.770 --> 10:10.750]  I prefer it that way myself.
[10:10.990 --> 10:11.230]  Okay.
[10:11.730 --> 10:13.530]  Well, we have a weird phone problem to start with.
[10:15.150 --> 10:16.650]  We have three ringing lines.
[10:17.350 --> 10:21.370]  Now, we don't know why these lines are ringing, but they're not ringing because of human beings.
[10:21.730 --> 10:21.990]  Yes.
[10:22.710 --> 10:23.730]  I can tell you what's going to happen.
[10:23.810 --> 10:24.610]  I'm going to pick up this line here.
[10:24.690 --> 10:25.790]  We're going to get silence, right?
[10:26.690 --> 10:27.250]  Complete silence.
[10:27.530 --> 10:27.690]  Complete silence.
[10:27.890 --> 10:28.230]  That's what?
[10:28.270 --> 10:28.570]  Nine or 11?
[10:28.570 --> 10:29.210]  I'm going to hang that up.
[10:29.530 --> 10:30.250]  I'm going to hang that line up.
[10:30.250 --> 10:31.810]  And it's going to instantly start ringing again.
[10:32.490 --> 10:35.390]  But line 10 is the one that does something magically weird.
[10:35.710 --> 10:36.190]  Listen to this.
[10:40.010 --> 10:40.590]  Hear that?
[10:41.030 --> 10:41.490]  Yes, I do.
[10:45.720 --> 10:47.320]  Now, it will just do that forever.
[10:47.940 --> 10:49.680]  And if we hang up, it will just do it again.
[10:51.800 --> 10:54.840]  I think it's really cool, but nobody knows what's causing that.
[10:55.780 --> 10:57.800]  Some bizarre malfunction with our phone system.
[10:57.960 --> 11:00.760]  So if you have a little trouble getting through, that might be why.
[11:02.320 --> 11:06.440]  Anyway, it's one of those weird mysteries that nobody understands.
[11:06.900 --> 11:08.500]  Okay, so we're going to go over to a different line.
[11:09.320 --> 11:11.140]  Now, those three are still basically out.
[11:11.340 --> 11:12.220]  I mean, you can't call...
[11:12.220 --> 11:12.340]  Yeah.
[11:12.340 --> 11:13.500]  You can't call those lines directly.
[11:13.500 --> 11:15.020]  That's why I know it's not a human doing that.
[11:15.020 --> 11:16.460]  It's some sort of weird malfunction.
[11:17.240 --> 11:19.380]  Okay, so we have the game.
[11:19.460 --> 11:20.020]  The game is called...
[11:20.020 --> 11:21.340]  We don't have the theme music gift for the game.
[11:21.420 --> 11:22.220]  We're still looking for that.
[11:22.380 --> 11:23.160]  Still working on the music.
[11:23.220 --> 11:24.080]  We have bids out for the music.
[11:24.400 --> 11:27.160]  But the game is basically...
[11:27.160 --> 11:29.820]  Well, it involves, of course, you know, telephones.
[11:30.820 --> 11:32.220]  As would be appropriate for this program.
[11:32.360 --> 11:33.680]  Yeah, I like to think so.
[11:35.160 --> 11:36.980]  Although, I'm not getting a dial tone down there either.
[11:36.980 --> 11:37.760]  That's kind of strange.
[11:37.960 --> 11:39.440]  Hopefully, some of the lines are working.
[11:39.980 --> 11:40.780]  Sure would be nice.
[11:40.940 --> 11:41.680]  Let's see if this one's working.
[11:43.780 --> 11:46.440]  It's going to be awfully hard to do this if we don't have any phones.
[11:46.700 --> 11:46.880]  Working phones.
[11:47.160 --> 11:47.320]  Yeah.
[11:48.020 --> 11:48.520]  There it goes.
[11:48.600 --> 11:48.820]  Okay.
[11:49.040 --> 11:50.800]  It looks like the whole second bank is out.
[11:51.380 --> 11:51.840]  All right.
[11:52.000 --> 11:55.740]  So, basically, the name of the game is called Find the Operator.
[11:56.680 --> 11:58.960]  And your job, Isaac, is when I connect you...
[11:58.960 --> 12:00.540]  How many touchstones will it take to find the operator?
[12:00.620 --> 12:03.840]  Well, you don't hit the touchstones because you're sitting all the way over there in the remote part of the studio.
[12:04.040 --> 12:04.240]  That'd be difficult.
[12:04.500 --> 12:05.480]  With the gate around you.
[12:07.680 --> 12:08.400]  By request.
[12:09.020 --> 12:09.860]  Court order, right.
[12:11.140 --> 12:16.740]  And I'll connect you to a predetermined number, which you will have no advanced knowledge of.
[12:16.840 --> 12:19.520]  You will tell me what buttons to hit to get the operator.
[12:20.020 --> 12:25.740]  You must get the operator within five minutes, which I think is enough time to find an operator.
[12:26.000 --> 12:26.120]  I hope I can hear that.
[12:26.160 --> 12:26.400]  Yeah.
[12:27.040 --> 12:31.780]  If you do not get the operator within five minutes, you have to buy us dinner.
[12:31.860 --> 12:32.160]  That's it.
[12:32.260 --> 12:32.360]  Yeah.
[12:32.520 --> 12:35.980]  And if you win, you get a commendation from us.
[12:36.200 --> 12:36.680]  Oh, thanks.
[12:37.220 --> 12:38.720]  I have a feeling this is rigged.
[12:39.240 --> 12:40.160]  No, it's not at all.
[12:40.340 --> 12:41.560]  This is all live.
[12:41.900 --> 12:42.480]  Completely live.
[12:42.540 --> 12:43.200]  Well, I know it's live.
[12:43.420 --> 12:44.820]  So how can something live be rigged?
[12:45.660 --> 12:45.980]  All right.
[12:46.400 --> 12:47.160]  Enough of this.
[12:47.260 --> 12:48.860]  We're going to call the phone number now.
[12:49.180 --> 12:49.440]  Okay.
[12:51.900 --> 12:54.100]  Hey, I can decode DTMF in my head.
[12:54.160 --> 12:56.420]  Now, remember, you have to tell me what buttons to hit.
[13:00.190 --> 13:00.770]  All right.
[13:00.850 --> 13:01.830]  I'm going to start the timer here.
[13:11.530 --> 13:18.290]  Hello, and welcome to Priceline.com, where you can save by naming your own price for the things you need.
[13:19.110 --> 13:26.450]  For help with Priceline's travel-related services, including airline tickets, hotel rooms, and rental cars, please press 1.
[13:26.730 --> 13:28.590]  For long distance, press 2.
[13:28.850 --> 13:30.670]  For new cars, press 3.
[13:30.890 --> 13:32.870]  For home financing, press 4.
[13:33.330 --> 13:35.050]  I suggest you listen and not talk.
[13:35.210 --> 13:35.830]  Tell me what to hit.
[13:35.830 --> 13:36.510]  I'll go for 0.
[13:36.650 --> 13:36.810]  0.
[13:36.910 --> 13:37.170]  Here we go.
[13:37.890 --> 13:40.470]  To return to the main menu, please press 1.
[13:40.750 --> 13:43.830]  To learn more about Priceline's products, press 2.
[13:44.050 --> 13:45.810]  For anything else, press 3.
[13:45.950 --> 13:46.370]  How about 3?
[13:46.710 --> 13:47.070]  Okay.
[13:48.190 --> 13:57.950]  If you have a question but do not have a Priceline request number, please visit us on the internet at www.priceline.com and send us an email.
[13:58.230 --> 14:01.030]  We'll get back to you with an answer as soon as possible.
[14:01.290 --> 14:04.270]  If I can help you with anything else, please press 1.
[14:04.270 --> 14:05.750]  If not, press 2.
[14:05.830 --> 14:06.530]  You can go for 1.
[14:06.670 --> 14:06.950]  Okay.
[14:08.550 --> 14:15.890]  For help with Priceline's travel-related services, including airline tickets, hotel rooms, and rental cars, please press 1.
[14:16.130 --> 14:17.750]  For long distance, press 2.
[14:17.750 --> 14:18.510]  We're back at the main menu.
[14:18.510 --> 14:19.990]  For new cars, press 3.
[14:19.990 --> 14:20.310]  I think so.
[14:20.510 --> 14:22.270]  For home financing, press 4.
[14:22.650 --> 14:23.110]  All right.
[14:23.170 --> 14:23.630]  How about 1?
[14:23.810 --> 14:24.050]  1.
[14:24.190 --> 14:24.370]  Okay.
[14:25.090 --> 14:25.750]  Thank you.
[14:25.930 --> 14:28.150]  For airline tickets, please press 1.
[14:28.450 --> 14:30.270]  For hotel rooms, press 2.
[14:30.470 --> 14:32.830]  For rental cars, please press 3.
[14:33.850 --> 14:34.710]  How about 3?
[14:35.870 --> 14:43.030]  If you are calling about a name-your-own-price rental car request you have already submitted through Priceline, press 1.
[14:43.430 --> 14:50.970]  If you're calling about an insider rates rental car offer related to a Priceline airline ticket request, press 2.
[14:50.970 --> 14:55.790]  To find out more about Priceline's rental car programs, press 3.
[14:56.110 --> 14:58.790]  To return to the main menu, press 4.
[14:58.890 --> 14:59.930]  You're over two minutes in.
[15:00.050 --> 15:00.070]  Yeah, I know.
[15:00.070 --> 15:02.270]  At any time to repeat a message.
[15:02.610 --> 15:02.830]  Okay.
[15:02.890 --> 15:03.550]  I'll go for 3.
[15:03.710 --> 15:03.870]  3.
[15:03.990 --> 15:04.270]  All right.
[15:05.350 --> 15:08.510]  Priceline currently has two car rental programs.
[15:08.850 --> 15:11.250]  For customers who seek to name their own rental cars...
[15:11.250 --> 15:12.170]  You're not impressing me.
[15:12.230 --> 15:13.410]  This is customer service.
[15:13.730 --> 15:13.770]  Okay.
[15:13.830 --> 15:17.770]  You can do so by visiting our website at www.priceline.com.
[15:17.810 --> 15:18.410]  Those are okay.
[15:18.410 --> 15:21.310]  Enter the dates, car class, and location of your...
[15:21.310 --> 15:21.790]  You want to hit zero?
[15:21.910 --> 15:22.430]  Yeah, go for zero.
[15:22.490 --> 15:25.690]  Guarantee your request with a major credit card and we'll let you...
[15:25.690 --> 15:26.270]  Operator!
[15:26.550 --> 15:27.510]  Mash the keypad.
[15:27.730 --> 15:32.650]  We are able to find a major car rental company willing to release a car at your price.
[15:32.650 --> 15:33.190]  Nothing works.
[15:33.650 --> 15:34.790]  Taxes, fees, and...
[15:34.790 --> 15:35.130]  You can...
[15:35.130 --> 15:36.930]  I should point out, you can also give up at any time.
[15:37.630 --> 15:38.790]  I can give up at any...
[15:39.070 --> 15:39.650]  And simply have...
[15:39.650 --> 15:40.250]  Save us time.
[15:40.470 --> 15:40.950]  This is, you know...
[15:40.950 --> 15:41.110]  All right.
[15:41.150 --> 15:41.590]  I'll give up.
[15:42.250 --> 15:42.850]  That's ridiculous.
[15:43.170 --> 15:45.550]  I have a feeling everything is going to bounce me back to the main menu.
[15:48.410 --> 15:51.010]  I should point out, no one has ever figured out how to get to the operator at the price line.
[15:51.350 --> 15:53.550]  Although they do advertise it as customer service.
[15:53.690 --> 15:54.990]  I'll read you what it says.
[15:55.130 --> 16:06.730]  It says, if you have any questions or require further assistance, please visit our customer service area on the web or contact customer service at 1-800-340-0575.
[16:07.370 --> 16:07.850]  I mean...
[16:07.850 --> 16:08.770]  And that was an number you dialed?
[16:08.890 --> 16:09.070]  Yeah.
[16:09.130 --> 16:15.530]  To me, that suggests that there's customer service there, meaning customer service representatives or counselors or whatever.
[16:15.850 --> 16:17.390]  Well, you need a counselor after that, that's for sure.
[16:18.950 --> 16:21.650]  Press 5 for your local psychiatrist.
[16:22.070 --> 16:24.330]  Yeah, it's pretty annoying.
[16:24.370 --> 16:31.930]  But I think this is something that we need to do week after week to show how hard it's become to get an operator.
[16:32.210 --> 16:33.050]  It really has.
[16:33.250 --> 16:36.230]  You intend to frustrate me every week trying to find a human being.
[16:36.230 --> 16:37.430]  I think I frustrate you every week.
[16:37.490 --> 16:38.510]  It sounds like my life.
[16:40.730 --> 16:41.210]  Yes.
[16:41.650 --> 16:53.910]  Okay, so a couple of weeks ago, we did a show where we focused on the service agreement, terms of service at Microsoft involving hotmail, passport, that kind of a thing.
[16:54.350 --> 17:08.910]  And we focused on the fact that certain unfair demands are being made of the consumer, basically saying that anything that you send on their system, including email, could be seized and taken by them and used for their purposes and became their property.
[17:09.030 --> 17:09.810]  Sold to third parties.
[17:10.050 --> 17:10.310]  Yes, all that.
[17:10.410 --> 17:10.750]  Whatever.
[17:10.970 --> 17:12.650]  The whole range of horrors.
[17:12.870 --> 17:13.010]  Right.
[17:13.310 --> 17:20.090]  And the day after the show, the terms of service would change, modify to prevent just that.
[17:20.150 --> 17:25.570]  Now, of course, we said last week at the time that it didn't seem that we actually were responsible for it.
[17:25.650 --> 17:28.250]  We don't think for a moment that people would listen to us.
[17:28.250 --> 17:38.690]  But I got to tell you, last week, I apologized to China for our incursion and for sending our spies over there, just as a gesture, because our government wouldn't.
[17:38.850 --> 17:42.570]  And wouldn't you know, the very next day, they released our spies.
[17:43.770 --> 17:49.650]  Now, you know, I'm not one to believe in over-importance.
[17:50.310 --> 17:52.430]  And I guess you're not, by the way you're laughing.
[17:53.790 --> 17:55.510]  I'll grant you, it is a correlation.
[17:55.510 --> 18:03.510]  I think it's something that we should, you know, focus on, because, you know, as I said, it is on the list of things to do while in New York for everybody in the United Nations.
[18:03.790 --> 18:03.970]  Listen to Off the Hook.
[18:03.970 --> 18:05.710]  Listen to Off the Hook on WBAI.
[18:05.850 --> 18:11.890]  So, it's quite possible that that was the gesture needed to break through the barricades.
[18:14.250 --> 18:14.970]  So, uh...
[18:14.970 --> 18:15.290]  Okay.
[18:15.550 --> 18:17.230]  Yeah, I mean, it's just something I think should be...
[18:17.230 --> 18:18.450]  Well, maybe we are that important.
[18:18.570 --> 18:21.210]  Maybe this is a form of such power.
[18:21.750 --> 18:32.230]  Well, you know, I don't think, you know, I sense you're being humorous, but I don't think it's quite that outrageous to believe that we have some, you know, some power here, some authority.
[18:32.510 --> 18:33.710]  You know, people do listen.
[18:33.850 --> 18:35.130]  Well, we are on WBAI.
[18:35.190 --> 18:37.410]  I mean, we're broadcast around the city and around the world.
[18:37.630 --> 18:37.870]  Mm-hmm.
[18:38.310 --> 18:38.750]  Absolutely.
[18:39.050 --> 18:40.490]  I guess people listen, you know.
[18:40.650 --> 18:50.770]  Now, with that in mind, with that in mind, I'd also like to hopefully continue the tradition by today apologizing to our listeners.
[18:51.550 --> 18:52.070]  Yeah.
[18:52.570 --> 19:07.570]  By doing that, I'm hoping, I'm hoping that, um, that we can move ahead, move forward, and get out of the quagmire that, uh, we seem to have fallen into over the past several months here at the radio station and, um, throughout the network.
[19:08.310 --> 19:14.850]  Um, I feel, as somebody here, it's very important to, uh, to respect the people that call in.
[19:14.850 --> 19:20.590]  And, uh, lately I have not been, uh, been getting an overwhelming sense that we respect our listeners as much as we should.
[19:20.790 --> 19:22.930]  Uh, these are the people who keep us on the air.
[19:23.010 --> 19:26.330]  These are the people that keep the station going, that have been doing this since 1960.
[19:27.570 --> 19:36.430]  It's unbelievable that, uh, we've survived this long, that we've managed to, uh, to keep the radio station going, that we've managed to keep so many different kinds of programs afloat.
[19:37.010 --> 19:43.230]  And, uh, and sent out, not only, not only to the people in New York City, but now people throughout the entire world.
[19:43.230 --> 19:46.470]  As we speak, there are hundreds of people listening on the Internet.
[19:46.970 --> 19:55.290]  This might be, this program right now, thanks to, uh, thanks to the efforts of the, uh, of the broadcasting crew, the, the Real Audio people and the MP3 people.
[19:55.470 --> 20:05.690]  Not, not the people at Real Audio, but the people who are, you know, there with their computers, um, figuring out ways to, to get as much bandwidth as possible to get the thing out there to people all over the planet.
[20:06.090 --> 20:11.730]  Thanks to their tireless efforts, we've been able to do this for a few years now, uh, and get the program out there.
[20:12.170 --> 20:18.770]  Uh, most commercial radio stations, when they say they're on the web, you know, they only have a couple of listeners at most, you know, maybe a dozen or so.
[20:19.090 --> 20:24.830]  I mean, who's going to listen to a commercial station in a different city when you can hear the same kind of station, you know, on the dial?
[20:25.010 --> 20:25.990]  That doesn't make any sense.
[20:26.230 --> 20:27.370]  There's no real loyalty.
[20:27.490 --> 20:28.390]  They all sound the same.
[20:28.390 --> 20:30.110]  But WBAI sounds different.
[20:30.550 --> 20:38.950]  And that's why it's, uh, it's, it's very important that not only do we listen to it here in, in New York City, but, uh, but, uh, we take it with us wherever we go.
[20:39.010 --> 20:42.590]  When I was in Holland, when I was in Germany, I was listening to WBAI on my laptop.
[20:42.590 --> 20:44.350]  It was the greatest feeling in the world, of course.
[20:44.610 --> 20:47.630]  That's when, uh, all kinds of uncertain things were going on.
[20:47.630 --> 20:51.210]  But, you know, in a way, that kind of, that kind of made it a lot more interesting.
[20:54.330 --> 21:03.570]  There's so much that's been going on, and so many misconceptions and, uh, and inaccuracies that have been, have been thrown around.
[21:03.850 --> 21:07.370]  There have been so many kinds of, uh, distortions and, uh, attacks.
[21:08.030 --> 21:12.250]  And, you know, after a while, it just gets to the point where it's not doing anybody any good.
[21:12.490 --> 21:13.430]  We need a dialogue.
[21:13.630 --> 21:15.930]  We need to be able to, uh, communicate amongst ourselves.
[21:15.930 --> 21:19.230]  And that's what's going to, uh, to save this place.
[21:19.470 --> 21:23.150]  Because this place is far too valuable to, uh, to flush away.
[21:26.550 --> 21:33.230]  Um, I read all these stories about all kinds of different things going on around the world.
[21:33.850 --> 21:39.110]  Uh, there's a whole story in, in, in the current issue of, uh, Brill's Content, which somehow I got.
[21:39.230 --> 21:40.030]  I don't know how I got this.
[21:40.710 --> 21:42.570]  Um, about B92.
[21:43.590 --> 21:46.230]  B92, B92, the station over in Yugoslavia.
[21:47.370 --> 21:55.870]  And how that station was taken over by the, uh, the government, by the, uh, by the Serbian government.
[21:58.410 --> 22:06.130]  This is, um, an excerpt from that where, uh, one of the, one of the people at the radio station, uh, comes into the studio.
[22:06.430 --> 22:12.170]  The only B92 staff on the sixth floor, apart from, uh, Mirkovic, were a security guard and a cleaning woman.
[22:12.430 --> 22:19.170]  It was not much of a match, especially since Mirkovic's backpack was stuffed with some of the financial documents the police probably wanted.
[22:19.290 --> 22:25.550]  Of course, Mirkovic is, Mirkovic is one of the people that, uh, has been working at, uh, B92 for a while, obviously.
[22:26.090 --> 22:31.370]  Uh, stalling for time, Mirkovic asked the security guard to summon the cleaning lady because he said he had her bag.
[22:31.810 --> 22:39.430]  When she appeared a minute later, squeezing through the leather jackets, Mirkovic casually handed her his backpack, and without missing a beat, she carried it to safety.
[22:40.630 --> 22:43.950]  It's kind of like the international language of, uh, of freedom right there.
[22:44.110 --> 22:45.130]  You don't have to say a word.
[22:45.570 --> 22:49.130]  When I went back into my office, a guy was already sitting in my chair, Mirkovic said.
[22:50.010 --> 22:51.730]  The guy was asking, where are the documents?
[22:51.910 --> 22:52.510]  Where are the folders?
[22:52.970 --> 22:55.310]  He refused to tell him and was tossed out of the office.
[22:55.430 --> 22:59.650]  He went downstairs and met with B92 staffers who had gathered at the cafe on the ground floor.
[22:59.870 --> 23:04.010]  They decided that if they couldn't have the station, they wouldn't let the government have it either.
[23:04.710 --> 23:10.590]  The station's engineers logged onto the computer terminals in the lobby and hacked their way into the B92 computer system.
[23:10.590 --> 23:16.730]  They deleted whatever they could find, not just financial information, but even audio files that contained the jingles that identified the station to its listeners.
[23:17.530 --> 23:28.170]  When the government reopened B92 the following Monday, most of the staff showed up ostensibly to interview for their old jobs and pledged their loyalty to a new management, but they were in fact there to cause as much havoc as possible.
[23:28.850 --> 23:32.330]  Disc jockeys filched as many CDs as they could lay their hands on.
[23:32.810 --> 23:38.370]  Technicians, asked to show their skills to just show how the systems worked, logged onto the computers and deleted files.
[23:39.210 --> 23:47.030]  The station's music director managed covertly to stick a screwdriver into an electrical outlet, shorting the station's wiring and causing everything to crash.
[23:47.910 --> 23:54.930]  Regardless, the state-run B92 went back on the air several days later with a new staff that hadn't a clue about the alternative music the station used to play.
[23:55.330 --> 23:57.690]  They thought Radiohead was a tape cleaner of some sort.
[23:58.370 --> 24:01.950]  More important, their news broadcasts were the usual Milosevic drivel.
[24:02.150 --> 24:04.430]  The station was a fake, and listeners knew it.
[24:04.550 --> 24:05.310]  Few tuned in.
[24:05.910 --> 24:12.570]  And that was a victory of sorts for the station's former staff, but they still confronted a basic question, what do we do now to get the truth onto the airwaves?
[24:12.650 --> 24:16.590]  Well, the story, of course, goes on for quite some time about the fight to do that.
[24:16.670 --> 24:27.050]  Now, I'm convinced that that story has been making the rounds here, and that people are afraid that that kind of a thing is actually on the agenda of people that are concerned about freedom of speech here on the radio station.
[24:28.210 --> 24:30.130]  It's not the same kind of a situation.
[24:30.150 --> 24:33.690]  We're not talking about a government marching in, taking over a radio station.
[24:33.790 --> 24:38.370]  We're talking about all kinds of differences of opinion as to where we should be going, how we should be programming.
[24:38.690 --> 24:40.230]  And, you know, it's a radio station.
[24:40.370 --> 24:45.430]  There's a radio station filled with people with all different kinds of ideas, and we have to respect that.
[24:45.550 --> 24:49.770]  I think that's what it always boils down to is respecting other opinions.
[24:50.090 --> 25:01.430]  That's something I've noticed that, especially in the left, and being over on the left myself, it's a painful thing to realize, but there seems to be very little respect for other people's opinions.
[25:02.630 --> 25:03.910]  I see this everywhere.
[25:04.110 --> 25:05.090]  I see it everywhere I look.
[25:05.510 --> 25:19.250]  You know, even in the organizations that are committed to democratizing, I put that in quotes, democratizing things at Pacifica and at WBAI and throughout radio in general, there are purges going on.
[25:19.350 --> 25:21.130]  There are people being banned there, too.
[25:21.130 --> 25:22.790]  People being banned from discussions.
[25:23.170 --> 25:26.210]  You know, people being accused of all kinds of things.
[25:26.230 --> 25:28.750]  It's like watching a mini-Stalinist revolution.
[25:30.090 --> 25:32.750]  And if it wasn't so sad, it would be funny.
[25:34.130 --> 25:38.350]  But the fact is, we have to get together and discuss these things.
[25:40.330 --> 25:45.530]  And telling people that you're not allowed to talk about something, well, that's the first step.
[25:46.850 --> 25:52.630]  That, to me, sounds like something that would happen at B92, something that would happen at NTV in Russia.
[25:52.630 --> 25:57.450]  That's the station that is going through some troubling times.
[25:57.630 --> 26:00.870]  Ted Turner actually tries to save it.
[26:01.070 --> 26:01.950]  Ted Turner.
[26:03.050 --> 26:08.990]  American businessman trying to save radio stations, or TV stations in Russia.
[26:09.050 --> 26:19.230]  And it turns out there's another American company that's on the other side, that's funding the side, that wants to bring the station back towards the Kremlin way of doing things.
[26:20.050 --> 26:25.190]  And then you have the Czech TV reporters going on strike to save their station.
[26:26.050 --> 26:27.270]  You know, when...
[26:27.270 --> 26:31.270]  There's a reason why you don't rob a police station.
[26:33.010 --> 26:34.770]  Why wouldn't you rob a police station, Isaac?
[26:36.910 --> 26:38.190]  I don't rob anything.
[26:38.590 --> 26:38.770]  Okay, fine.
[26:38.990 --> 26:40.930]  For the purposes of this program, you don't rob anything.
[26:41.090 --> 26:43.430]  But I'm just asking you as a, you know...
[26:43.430 --> 26:43.590]  All right.
[26:43.650 --> 26:47.750]  If I were to decide to rob something, a police station would not be my first target...
[26:47.750 --> 26:48.270]  Because why not?
[26:48.470 --> 26:50.670]  ...because there are police officers there...
[26:50.670 --> 26:51.930]  Yeah, there are police officers there...
[26:51.930 --> 26:53.530]  ...who will arrest me and prosecute me.
[26:53.530 --> 26:57.510]  And they are, at least in theory, the people that have the most ability to catch criminals.
[26:58.470 --> 26:59.550]  Yeah, okay, I'm not...
[26:59.550 --> 27:00.470]  In theory.
[27:03.190 --> 27:04.730]  Yes, they have the tools.
[27:04.850 --> 27:07.090]  They have the tools necessary to do all kinds of things.
[27:07.170 --> 27:09.510]  It would make it very, uh...
[27:09.510 --> 27:10.670]  Kind of foolhardy.
[27:10.850 --> 27:12.510]  What am I going to steal from a police station?
[27:12.570 --> 27:13.630]  Are you going to steal from a police station?
[27:13.630 --> 27:14.530]  What am I going to steal from a police station anyway?
[27:15.290 --> 27:16.430]  Next show we'll talk about that.
[27:16.430 --> 27:16.550]  There's not much in there.
[27:16.610 --> 27:17.810]  I'm sure there's all kinds of things.
[27:18.210 --> 27:18.610]  Typewriters.
[27:18.730 --> 27:19.030]  Who knows?
[27:20.690 --> 27:24.370]  For the same reason you don't attack free speech...
[27:24.370 --> 27:26.290]  And a bastion of free speech!
[27:26.930 --> 27:27.510]  You know?
[27:27.890 --> 27:29.130]  We go around...
[27:29.130 --> 27:30.930]  And we've been doing this for years.
[27:31.290 --> 27:35.650]  Ever since the magazine started, we've been talking to people about expressing themselves.
[27:35.870 --> 27:40.470]  We've been talking to people about getting their opinions out there.
[27:41.250 --> 27:43.130]  And accepting the consequences.
[27:45.350 --> 27:52.890]  And it would be very hypocritical to sit here and say, Well, I'm not going to address certain issues because I'm afraid.
[27:53.070 --> 27:55.330]  Well, you know, there is an element of fear here.
[27:55.470 --> 27:56.530]  I can't deny that.
[27:57.430 --> 27:59.790]  An element of fear that has not existed before.
[28:00.110 --> 28:02.390]  I mean, it's been existing for a little while now, but it has not...
[28:02.390 --> 28:08.890]  I haven't seen it ever since I started coming here back in the 80s, where people are afraid to talk about certain things on the radio.
[28:08.950 --> 28:10.710]  Now, I have my own code of conduct.
[28:10.750 --> 28:16.790]  And I think most broadcasters here do have their own code of conduct, where they simply will not launch into personal attacks on people.
[28:16.870 --> 28:24.850]  They will not say things that are not proven, that are unfactual or just completely irresponsible.
[28:25.130 --> 28:32.510]  And I think most of the time, the vast majority of the time, you have to have some faith in the people on the radio to get it right.
[28:32.510 --> 28:34.390]  And if they don't get it right, you call them on it.
[28:34.430 --> 28:35.430]  You call them on it immediately.
[28:40.070 --> 28:56.950]  So, if we were to sit around and tell people that, yeah, you know, go to your high school and put up the Freak Heaven signs and put up the Stop the MPAA signs and express your opinion and accept the fact that you might get suspended for this, that you might get detention,
[28:56.950 --> 29:01.310]  you might even get expelled for telling somebody how you feel,
[29:04.740 --> 29:11.480]  how hypocritical would it be for us to sit here and refuse to talk about certain things.
[29:11.720 --> 29:15.660]  So, basically, my message today is no way.
[29:16.620 --> 29:17.760]  We can't do that.
[29:18.640 --> 29:22.560]  We'll conduct ourselves the way we always have with some degree of
[29:25.840 --> 29:28.020]  responsibility, hopefully a great degree of responsibility.
[29:29.980 --> 29:33.900]  As a programmer, I don't tolerate attacks on anybody, whether I agree with them or not.
[29:34.180 --> 29:37.660]  And I don't intend to sit idly by and watch that kind of a thing happen.
[29:38.700 --> 29:41.700]  But when things happen, we're going to talk about them.
[29:47.080 --> 29:49.960]  It's really a shame to hear some of the things that are going on.
[29:50.040 --> 29:54.160]  I've heard callers in the last few days mocked on the air for expressing their concerns.
[29:54.340 --> 29:55.620]  Legitimate concerns, you know?
[29:55.760 --> 29:57.820]  Things that really should be addressed.
[29:58.100 --> 30:01.080]  And these are the people that keep us on the air.
[30:03.330 --> 30:05.560]  Our listeners are so precious to us.
[30:05.560 --> 30:07.180]  We do not have commercials.
[30:07.300 --> 30:08.480]  We do not have corporate sponsors.
[30:08.620 --> 30:09.820]  We don't even take underwriting.
[30:10.460 --> 30:12.340]  Our listeners are all we have.
[30:13.620 --> 30:16.960]  And our listeners cannot abandon us.
[30:17.120 --> 30:22.720]  We cannot force them to abandon us because without them, we've got nowhere to go except down.
[30:25.750 --> 30:27.110]  Talk about internal politics.
[30:27.230 --> 30:28.690]  This is what internal politics is.
[30:28.930 --> 30:29.210]  All right?
[30:29.350 --> 30:33.050]  This is what commercial radio stations deal with.
[30:33.050 --> 30:35.170]  This is a big issue to them.
[30:36.050 --> 30:47.550]  An internal flap at WBZ-TV in Boston went public when a memo written in an apparently angry moment by General Manager Ed Goldman was leaked to both local papers.
[30:48.090 --> 30:54.610]  The memo suggested that a wall was being erected between WBZ-AM and WBZ-TV.
[30:54.990 --> 31:03.250]  At issue in the memo had been the appearance at the radio station of New England news icon and competitor Natalie Jacobson from rival WCVB-TV.
[31:03.590 --> 31:08.790]  The TV station executives apparently were embarrassed that they had not been told in advance of Jacobson's visit.
[31:08.930 --> 31:14.750]  She was discussing her 25th anniversary in the market and were thus not able to greet her properly.
[31:16.370 --> 31:20.470]  They also felt it was awkward that WBZ-TV anchor Joe Shortsleeve...
[31:21.190 --> 31:22.290]  I'm not kidding.
[31:22.590 --> 31:24.890]  His name is Joe Shortsleeve.
[31:25.470 --> 31:26.810]  He's been there forever.
[31:27.410 --> 31:27.850]  Oh, that's right.
[31:27.890 --> 31:28.550]  You're from Boston.
[31:28.550 --> 31:28.750]  Yeah.
[31:29.270 --> 31:30.410]  So we're not making this up, folks.
[31:30.690 --> 31:32.650]  No, he claims his name.
[31:32.770 --> 31:34.490]  These are real plastic people out there.
[31:34.890 --> 31:40.930]  Joe Shortsleeve delivered a radio promo for his upcoming late newscast with Jacobson sitting in the booth.
[31:41.510 --> 31:55.730]  A WBZ-TV spokesman said that despite the memo which referred to the radio station's callousness and lack of respect for the Channel 4 newsroom, there would be no lasting rift between the CBS-owned entities and that there had been no changes in policy regarding cooperation with the radio station.
[31:55.730 --> 31:59.950]  I mean, this is a big deal to commercial broadcasters.
[32:00.490 --> 32:02.470]  Someone's sitting in a booth, a rift, you know.
[32:03.110 --> 32:03.630]  Protocol.
[32:04.050 --> 32:05.410]  We're talking about issues.
[32:05.590 --> 32:06.890]  We're talking about speech.
[32:07.050 --> 32:14.090]  We're talking about people dying in foreign parts of the world and around here, too.
[32:14.570 --> 32:25.690]  This is the only station you'll hear about police brutality and election controversies and things happening in all kinds of distant parts of the world.
[32:26.270 --> 32:28.230]  And we have some damn good people here.
[32:28.910 --> 32:31.090]  People who also deserve respect.
[32:32.990 --> 32:41.290]  You know, I don't intend to ever bash anybody on these airwaves, but I will stand up for people who deserve to be stood up for.
[32:43.410 --> 32:50.230]  I've heard people like Mario Murillo and Robert Knight and Amy Goodman being attacked mercilessly over and over again.
[32:52.270 --> 32:56.810]  There was a story in the Associated Press a couple of days ago.
[32:58.310 --> 33:05.070]  The leader of the free world scolded Amy Goodman, calling her hostile, combative, and disrespectful on her national radio show.
[33:05.490 --> 33:19.230]  Not a tremble, not a flicker of hesitation, not even an angry increase in tone was heard in Goodman's voice as President Clinton balked at the 30 minutes of questions he got after making a surprise get out the vote call last election day.
[33:20.170 --> 33:26.970]  What do you say to people who feel that the two parties are bought by corporations and feel that their vote doesn't make a difference was Goodman's opener.
[33:27.650 --> 33:33.450]  After that, she fired off questions on the death penalty, racial profiling, and the suggestion that Clinton shifted Democrats to the right.
[33:33.950 --> 33:37.570]  And after that interview, Goodman said the White House banned her from press conferences.
[33:38.210 --> 33:41.730]  If asking serious questions gets you cut off, well, so be it.
[33:41.730 --> 33:43.130]  You just keep on going.
[33:43.970 --> 33:49.210]  I don't think that it's worth a trade-off not fulfilling our responsibilities as journalists so that we can have continued access.
[33:49.810 --> 33:51.190]  You see the parallel here?
[33:52.490 --> 33:57.990]  Yeah, if she knew she was going to get cut off by the White House, do you self-censor?
[33:58.210 --> 33:59.710]  Do you not ask the questions?
[33:59.990 --> 34:03.370]  Or do you get those questions out there and use your voice while you have it?
[34:07.190 --> 34:11.770]  I wish there were 25 Amy Goodmans around here and I don't see why there can't be.
[34:13.350 --> 34:16.270]  This radio station is comprised of volunteers from the community.
[34:17.530 --> 34:19.390]  I walked in here one day in 1988.
[34:19.670 --> 34:22.310]  Well, it was on 8th Avenue back then.
[34:23.670 --> 34:24.650]  And I was welcomed.
[34:24.850 --> 34:26.050]  You know, it was amazing.
[34:26.330 --> 34:29.350]  You know, I just walked in the door and right away there was something for me to do.
[34:29.570 --> 34:30.710]  And I learned.
[34:30.970 --> 34:32.330]  I learned all kinds of things.
[34:32.430 --> 34:33.190]  I learned about programming.
[34:33.330 --> 34:34.550]  I learned how a radio station worked.
[34:34.550 --> 34:49.650]  I mean, I worked at a radio station before but, you know, to actually see it in action really intensified because New York City is just an incredible place and this radio station has been around for so long and we do so many amazing things.
[34:49.850 --> 34:55.070]  To see that it's something I hope lots of other people get to see.
[34:56.230 --> 35:01.990]  And hopefully they can just come here and do that like I did for many years in the future.
[35:02.170 --> 35:17.110]  You know, I've heard one thing said many, many times and said as if it was a bad thing that for the last year or so I'm not sure exactly how long a period it was that we weren't able to lock our front door.
[35:17.870 --> 35:19.330]  We weren't able to lock the door.
[35:19.650 --> 35:20.650]  Apparently the lock was broken.
[35:20.750 --> 35:21.070]  I don't know.
[35:23.250 --> 35:26.270]  I think the real issue is we didn't need to lock our front door.
[35:26.830 --> 35:28.930]  We had a radio station in the middle of New York City.
[35:29.590 --> 35:31.810]  There was a guard downstairs after all so it doesn't really matter.
[35:32.690 --> 35:34.150]  But people could come here.
[35:34.310 --> 35:37.530]  People could come here and it wasn't a big deal to us.
[35:37.650 --> 35:43.110]  We really needed to lock our door if there were street gangs outside getting off the elevator.
[35:43.450 --> 35:46.130]  Believe me, you can lock a door pretty quickly even if it's a broken lock.
[35:46.230 --> 35:46.890]  You can buy a lock.
[35:47.010 --> 35:47.730]  It's not that expensive.
[35:47.930 --> 35:50.110]  I've done it myself and if I can do it, anybody can do it.
[35:51.890 --> 35:56.230]  So we had an open door policy and it worked.
[35:56.750 --> 35:59.510]  It wasn't something that was bad.
[35:59.510 --> 36:00.750]  I think that's a good thing.
[36:02.430 --> 36:08.550]  And I hope that we open things up a little bit more so that people don't feel like they're locked out.
[36:08.810 --> 36:10.330]  I think it's a very symbolic thing.
[36:10.830 --> 36:12.890]  And right now we have people who are banned, fired.
[36:14.610 --> 36:15.650]  It's a sad thing.
[36:16.070 --> 36:17.350]  We need to open a dialogue.
[36:17.350 --> 36:19.150]  We need to start talking to each other.
[36:19.370 --> 36:26.530]  We need to stop with the rhetoric because that's just so destructive.
[36:29.500 --> 36:33.480]  It's amazing how quickly things can deteriorate too if you believe.
[36:33.700 --> 36:44.440]  Just reading news groups, watching, it's unbelievable how quickly you can have everybody detracted from the real issues and focused on well, who's the traitor this week?
[36:44.520 --> 36:47.100]  Who's the person that we're going to focus our wrath upon?
[36:48.760 --> 36:55.140]  There are lots of people I don't agree with but that doesn't mean that they're necessarily the enemy.
[36:55.400 --> 36:58.100]  It doesn't mean they're necessarily somebody who is inhuman.
[36:59.680 --> 37:06.220]  I mean, I must disagree with everything that Pacifica National Board stands for but I don't think they're Klingons from another galaxy that are invading.
[37:07.460 --> 37:25.220]  They're human beings and we need to be able to somehow get to these human beings I don't know it's a difficult thing by the same token though the people who represent the opposition are not the enemy to the people on the station
[37:28.640 --> 37:47.280]  there's a march in two weeks across the Brooklyn Bridge this is a good thing these are people who support the radio station marching across the Brooklyn Bridge starting at I believe 12 noon and coming to the radio station These rallies are not against the radio station.
[37:47.440 --> 37:48.720]  These rallies are for the radio station.
[37:48.860 --> 37:49.820]  These are our listeners.
[37:49.960 --> 37:50.540]  These are our supporters.
[37:50.660 --> 37:51.960]  These are people who believe in freedom of speech.
[37:53.020 --> 37:54.800]  I don't think there should be cops downstairs.
[37:55.480 --> 37:58.480]  But I think it's kind of required whenever you have a large group of people.
[37:59.100 --> 38:04.800]  Because these are not the people that are going to storm in and take over and put screwdrivers in electrical sockets and things like that.
[38:04.880 --> 38:06.160]  That's not the situation we have here.
[38:06.180 --> 38:07.280]  And we can't believe that we do.
[38:09.000 --> 38:11.220]  We have a healthy situation of dialogue.
[38:12.900 --> 38:14.220]  We just have to start listening.
[38:15.400 --> 38:17.580]  So that happens in two Saturdays.
[38:18.400 --> 38:22.280]  Next Saturday... And this is another thing that upset me, too.
[38:22.460 --> 38:28.280]  I hear this talked about and mocked on some people's airtime as if it was a bad thing.
[38:28.360 --> 38:29.020]  This is a good thing.
[38:29.960 --> 38:31.980]  It's called WBAI Radio in Exile.
[38:32.100 --> 38:35.360]  It takes place at Theater for the New City this Saturday, April 21st.
[38:36.360 --> 38:38.580]  155 1st Avenue, East 10th Street, Manhattan.
[38:38.900 --> 38:40.000]  It goes from 10 a.m.
[38:40.020 --> 38:40.660]  to 6 p.m.
[38:43.140 --> 38:47.260]  And all kinds of people from the radio station and from outside the radio station are going to be there.
[38:47.320 --> 38:59.740]  Bernard White, Amy Goodman, Sharon Harper, Janice Bryant, Errol Maitland, Robert Knight, Serene Roberts, Rosalie Hoffman, Rachel Barr, Susan Lee, Dina Colbert, Bill DeFazio, Ursula Rudenberg, Mario Murillo, and Juan Gonzalez.
[38:59.740 --> 39:08.520]  Also, Ken Nash, Mimi Rosenberg, Grandpa Al Lewis, Deepa Fernandez, Bijou Mathieu, Amiri Baraka.
[39:08.620 --> 39:09.220]  Lots of people.
[39:09.720 --> 39:10.940]  It's going to be amazing.
[39:13.700 --> 39:17.680]  Another opportunity to learn, to voice your opinions.
[39:20.060 --> 39:25.220]  But at the same time, we have to keep a grip on where we're going.
[39:25.700 --> 39:28.080]  What's true, what is not true, what's opinion, what isn't.
[39:28.440 --> 39:32.460]  I hear all kinds of things out there that are just like, it's comical to hear.
[39:34.120 --> 39:35.900]  But it's based on misperceptions.
[39:36.380 --> 39:39.780]  We don't have an armed security force patrolling the radio station.
[39:39.980 --> 39:40.520]  All right?
[39:40.620 --> 39:42.320]  This is not some kind of a gulag.
[39:44.000 --> 39:45.440]  Look, we have staff people.
[39:45.700 --> 39:55.400]  We had non-staff people for a little while, a couple of months ago, but we have staff people now that make sure the door gets answered and that kind of a thing.
[39:55.400 --> 39:56.300]  It's not that big a deal.
[39:56.780 --> 39:58.560]  We don't have security cameras.
[39:59.240 --> 40:01.020]  Of course, I'm told that might change.
[40:01.020 --> 40:03.060]  If it does change, I'll certainly say something about it.
[40:04.780 --> 40:13.100]  But there is this feeling of fear and dread, varying degrees to certain people.
[40:13.440 --> 40:15.140]  And it's something we have to address.
[40:15.440 --> 40:19.440]  You do that by talking, communicating.
[40:23.360 --> 40:24.100]  All right.
[40:24.380 --> 40:28.180]  We have all kinds of other things to discuss as well.
[40:30.580 --> 40:32.200]  All kinds of activism going on.
[40:33.860 --> 40:36.920]  We have the events in Quebec happening this week.
[40:38.940 --> 40:42.340]  And the Indy Media Center is involved in that pretty heavily.
[40:44.140 --> 40:52.940]  Unfortunately, a lot of the people who used to be involved here are only involved in the Indy Media Center, which, I mean, it's not unfortunate they were involved with the Indy Media Center.
[40:53.000 --> 40:53.360]  Of course not.
[40:53.360 --> 40:59.360]  But I can't help but feel like we're losing people to other mediums when we...
[41:00.380 --> 41:06.000]  WBAI should be the station covering this kind of a thing passionately with the best people that we have.
[41:06.040 --> 41:07.800]  And we have some pretty damn good people here.
[41:09.900 --> 41:12.060]  And we should be hearing from them a lot more.
[41:13.060 --> 41:16.040]  Events in Quebec are going to really get interesting.
[41:16.040 --> 41:18.900]  This is at the Quebec City Summit of the Americas meeting.
[41:19.460 --> 41:25.000]  I've heard people being turned back at the border as recently as yesterday.
[41:26.240 --> 41:28.620]  Being told they're not going to be able to get into Canada.
[41:29.160 --> 41:32.100]  Trains being occupied by border guards.
[41:32.260 --> 41:33.580]  I mean, this is happening right here.
[41:34.100 --> 41:34.620]  Right?
[41:34.680 --> 41:35.800]  The Canadian-New York border.
[41:36.760 --> 41:39.880]  If you want more information, www.a20.org.
[41:41.240 --> 41:44.840]  We'll have all kinds of information on that.
[41:46.400 --> 41:47.840]  What's happening on April 20th?
[41:47.880 --> 41:49.220]  I mean, April 20th is the...
[41:49.220 --> 41:54.100]  There's some kind of a drug thing, you know, 420, the whole, like, marijuana culture.
[41:54.360 --> 41:54.520]  What?
[41:54.740 --> 41:55.920]  Yeah, you know about that, don't you ask?
[41:56.860 --> 41:57.300]  420?
[41:57.520 --> 42:04.900]  Yeah, but it's also, in addition to the marijuana reference, it's also the day that the Columbine kids went nuts.
[42:05.160 --> 42:06.060]  How is that a...
[42:06.540 --> 42:08.200]  And it's also Hitler's birthday.
[42:09.460 --> 42:10.380]  It's a busy day.
[42:10.600 --> 42:12.500]  And this, the Quebec thing.
[42:12.780 --> 42:13.880]  You know, a lot of things are going on.
[42:15.660 --> 42:16.620]  I'm still...
[42:17.120 --> 42:20.940]  How is 420 significant to narcotics?
[42:21.680 --> 42:26.740]  Well, I don't have time to explain the entire drug culture to you in the time we have left.
[42:26.880 --> 42:27.640]  Okay, I'm sorry, I'm just wondering.
[42:27.900 --> 42:31.640]  But I'm sure if somebody would like to explain drugs to you, they can email Isaac.
[42:32.840 --> 42:34.760]  At OCH at 2600.
[42:34.760 --> 42:37.940]  Happy, or meet you at the 2600 meeting a week from Friday.
[42:38.480 --> 42:39.360]  That's true.
[42:39.620 --> 42:43.000]  Where drugs are not the topic, usually.
[42:43.760 --> 42:44.560]  At least I hope not.
[42:46.800 --> 42:48.140]  Oh, it's a radio code.
[42:49.820 --> 42:50.760]  Okay, I'm sorry.
[42:51.080 --> 42:52.180]  Isaac, you know, you're a good example.
[42:52.320 --> 42:52.740]  I'm slow.
[42:52.920 --> 42:56.660]  No, what I'm saying, you know, I hope I'm making myself clear about the importance.
[42:56.660 --> 42:57.960]  We have diversity here.
[42:58.120 --> 42:58.960]  We're a radio station.
[42:59.080 --> 43:01.880]  Radio stations tend to attract radio personalities.
[43:01.880 --> 43:04.760]  Radio personalities can be among the most offensive people in the world.
[43:05.180 --> 43:11.460]  And they take positions, and they hold their positions for dear life, and they refuse to give an inch.
[43:11.760 --> 43:17.520]  And before you know it, you have a whole Palestinian-Israeli conflict going on where nobody will yield anything.
[43:18.580 --> 43:35.960]  It's my view, and as somebody who's been involved in the freedom of speech issues for many years now, that unless you respect the other side to a degree, at least to listen to what they have to say, and unless you question yourself and your beliefs, you're never going to accomplish anything.
[43:36.320 --> 43:41.580]  We have a radio station here where we have so many different points of view, where we respect so many different kinds of speech.
[43:41.580 --> 43:43.260]  Here's an example, all right?
[43:43.340 --> 43:44.540]  Here's an example of the kind of...
[43:44.540 --> 43:45.220]  That's the one where I fall into this.
[43:45.220 --> 43:52.800]  Yeah, the kind of diversity, the kind of all-over-the-place speech that you will hear on this radio station.
[43:53.500 --> 43:55.140]  Isaac, do you believe George W.
[43:55.300 --> 43:56.660]  Bush is a decent human being?
[43:56.920 --> 43:57.220]  Yes.
[43:57.620 --> 43:58.060]  You see?
[43:58.420 --> 43:58.980]  Oh, I'm alive.
[43:58.980 --> 44:02.320]  This is the kind of far-out, way-wacky kind of...
[44:02.320 --> 44:03.380]  Oh, I see where I can...
[44:03.380 --> 44:05.000]  No hesitation at all on that answer.
[44:05.660 --> 44:06.300]  You see?
[44:06.540 --> 44:07.160]  That's truly bizarre.
[44:07.160 --> 44:10.680]  Do you think Ronald Reagan has a legacy that he can be proud of?
[44:10.680 --> 44:11.200]  I do.
[44:12.140 --> 44:13.300]  I rest my case.
[44:13.400 --> 44:24.260]  Now, if I can do that, I don't see how anybody else at this radio station can say that someone else's opinion is not welcome, is not worthy of being heard.
[44:26.080 --> 44:30.680]  Obviously, we have to maintain some kind of respect towards other people.
[44:30.800 --> 44:34.360]  We have to not say things that can't be proven.
[44:35.420 --> 44:36.800]  I have lots of things about George W.
[44:36.880 --> 44:39.040]  Bush that I can say that can be proven, but...
[44:39.580 --> 44:41.720]  Yeah, we'll get to that some other time.
[44:41.800 --> 44:43.440]  We'll leave that on the side.
[44:45.140 --> 44:51.520]  Article today about the 2,600 meetings in Washington, D.C.
[44:51.560 --> 44:52.500]  and the Washington Post.
[44:52.620 --> 44:53.160]  Did you see this?
[44:53.160 --> 44:53.840]  Yes.
[44:54.100 --> 44:54.340]  Yes.
[44:54.340 --> 45:03.500]  They referred to the 2,600 club, which I think is a wonderful coup for religious television, where you can say 100, and then immediately everyone's instinct is to attach club to the event.
[45:03.520 --> 45:04.040]  Yes, 700 club.
[45:04.120 --> 45:09.680]  Well, you know, they've been calling us the 2,600 club now ever since the event of 1992, was it?
[45:10.080 --> 45:14.840]  The Pentagon City Mall being raided by the security guards at the behest of the Secret Service.
[45:15.280 --> 45:20.960]  The Washington Post has always referred to us as the 2,600 club, so it must be in their file somewhere that we're the 2,600 club.
[45:21.680 --> 45:27.180]  What's unusual about this article is that it actually says that we're doing some good.
[45:28.120 --> 45:30.380]  Yeah, it actually says that.
[45:31.000 --> 45:32.020]  It depends how you define good.
[45:32.020 --> 45:33.080]  Well, this is news to me.
[45:33.240 --> 45:34.000]  I thought we were evil.
[45:34.060 --> 45:35.440]  In their opinion, all right?
[45:36.840 --> 45:39.300]  We're not evil terrorists and drug dealers?
[45:39.520 --> 45:42.760]  Listen to what the parent of one of the attendees of the 2,600 meeting says.
[45:42.900 --> 45:43.080]  Okay.
[45:43.080 --> 45:47.180]  Um, they have been a really good influence, and that's rather funny given their reputation.
[45:47.940 --> 45:48.100]  Hmm.
[45:48.440 --> 45:48.620]  Hmm.
[45:49.900 --> 45:50.100]  Okay.
[45:50.400 --> 45:51.240]  Don't know how to take that.
[45:51.820 --> 45:54.000]  Um, I think you should be proud.
[45:54.120 --> 46:02.840]  Without 2,600, supposedly this, uh, this kid who goes to the meetings would probably be one of the, this is a quote, probably be one of those pot-smoking, crack-sniffing guys who gave up on life a long time ago.
[46:03.320 --> 46:06.420]  Now, Isaac, you wouldn't know this because you're still learning about drugs, but I don't think you can sniff.
[46:06.880 --> 46:08.040]  You can't sniff crack.
[46:08.220 --> 46:09.200]  Well, you can sniff crack.
[46:09.340 --> 46:10.520]  It just doesn't do you a whole lot of good.
[46:10.760 --> 46:11.560]  It's not as effective?
[46:11.560 --> 46:16.000]  Not that smoking crack doesn't get any good at all, but I'm just saying it's, it's kind of, uh, kind of strange.
[46:16.220 --> 46:20.280]  This guy, if I recall, was a, a law enforcement official who said that too.
[46:20.720 --> 46:21.360]  Oh, really?
[46:21.500 --> 46:22.340]  Law enforcement official?
[46:23.480 --> 46:23.840]  Uh...
[46:23.840 --> 46:25.420]  Yeah, they show up at 2,600 meetings.
[46:25.440 --> 46:28.180]  No, no, no, his, his son, or, or daughter.
[46:28.460 --> 46:29.460]  I don't know if he specifies.
[46:29.740 --> 46:31.240]  His son or daughter's a federal law enforcement?
[46:31.240 --> 46:39.260]  They're mostly just kids who want to learn about technologies and push the boundaries of the law, but in general, they are not the threat that everyone sees them as.
[46:40.120 --> 46:46.500]  That's according to, uh, Stuart McClure, author of Hacking Exposed, kind of, uh, textbook about how to secure a computer network.
[46:47.260 --> 46:57.400]  Mike Godwin, former staff attorney of the Electronic Frontier Foundation, said, there's no doubt in my mind that the clubs have done more good than harm in that they've encouraged kids to develop their knowledge and computer skills.
[46:57.400 --> 47:02.500]  Now, Mike, you, you said that they're, it's not all necessarily, uh, nice, nice news here.
[47:02.560 --> 47:04.460]  What's, what's, what's the bad side about this story?
[47:05.260 --> 47:10.380]  Uh, apparently, at 2,600 is some sort of, uh, job placement club.
[47:10.580 --> 47:11.560]  Is that how they see us?
[47:12.560 --> 47:16.040]  They see us as, uh, as, as, as getting people jobs.
[47:16.320 --> 47:17.620]  That's, that's what it says.
[47:18.260 --> 47:19.380]  That's kind of sad.
[47:19.380 --> 47:28.000]  But, uh, well, I mean, it's not, it's not sad that people get jobs that they want to get, but, uh, it's not really what the purpose of, of, of hacking is, what the purpose of discussion is.
[47:28.400 --> 47:33.980]  It's, it's questioning, it's, it's discussing, it's talking, it's, uh, communicating, sharing information, that kind of a thing.
[47:34.380 --> 47:38.620]  But, you know, I think it's good that they portray us in a way that we're not evil bandits.
[47:39.240 --> 47:40.160]  So it's a step.
[47:41.000 --> 47:44.080]  I'm just afraid of the kind of people that are going to show up at meetings from now on.
[47:44.240 --> 47:47.280]  You know, all these, uh, we're going to get the headhunters, of course, showing up.
[47:47.280 --> 47:49.460]  I think just people should show up.
[47:49.600 --> 47:51.040]  I don't care what your interest is.
[47:51.240 --> 47:52.820]  It's worth coming to the meetings.
[47:52.900 --> 47:53.280]  Exactly.
[47:53.400 --> 47:54.280]  It's about communication.
[47:54.660 --> 47:56.760]  If you're a federal law enforcement officer, come on by.
[47:56.880 --> 47:58.480]  You can see that we're really non-threatening.
[47:59.240 --> 48:01.020]  No literal headhunters, though.
[48:01.760 --> 48:04.400]  Yeah, I'd like to keep the cannibals out.
[48:04.600 --> 48:09.540]  But I suppose if you're into that kind of thing and you want to show up, you can do that.
[48:09.540 --> 48:10.800]  But I left something out.
[48:10.920 --> 48:15.780]  There's another demonstration taking place this Friday, April 20th.
[48:16.040 --> 48:17.620]  Yet another thing going on April 20th.
[48:17.840 --> 48:19.160]  This takes place at noon.
[48:19.340 --> 48:22.620]  It's a demonstration against Internet-blocking technology legislation.
[48:24.480 --> 48:25.540]  You guys heard about this?
[48:25.720 --> 48:27.740]  This is taking place out on Long Island.
[48:27.820 --> 48:30.080]  It's called the Children's Internet Protection Act.
[48:30.120 --> 48:30.800]  That's what they're protesting.
[48:30.860 --> 48:31.500]  That's not who they are.
[48:33.200 --> 48:36.080]  I believe they call that CHIPA or CHIPA or something like that.
[48:36.080 --> 48:41.360]  But it's taking place at the Federal Courthouse on Carlton Avenue in Central Islip.
[48:41.900 --> 48:44.120]  It takes place April 20th at noon.
[48:44.320 --> 48:51.440]  If you want more information, contact Alex, A-L-E-X at 2600.com or call 631-589-2205.
[48:52.920 --> 48:55.840]  Sponsored by the EFF, ACLU, Online Policy Group.
[48:55.980 --> 48:58.300]  And it's amazing to see them all get together on this.
[48:59.500 --> 49:04.100]  Part of the complaint against Internet-blocking technology is they don't block what they're supposed to block.
[49:04.100 --> 49:05.820]  They overblock what they're not supposed to block.
[49:06.080 --> 49:09.720]  They rely on subjective expert control from software product developers.
[49:09.900 --> 49:13.280]  They're error-prone, vulnerable, problematic, unfairly discriminatory.
[49:14.060 --> 49:15.480]  The list just goes on and on.
[49:15.600 --> 49:16.560]  That's a pretty long rant.
[49:17.920 --> 49:19.620]  And then the latest thing with WIPA.
[49:19.720 --> 49:20.520]  Have you ever seen this one?
[49:20.800 --> 49:21.980]  This is unbelievable.
[49:22.160 --> 49:22.580]  What now?
[49:22.580 --> 49:31.000]  They came out with a little document, a little, I don't want to say memo.
[49:31.080 --> 49:32.320]  I guess a report is the best word.
[49:32.360 --> 49:32.560]  Okay.
[49:32.780 --> 49:38.860]  Over the weekend on, you know, recommendations on how certain things should be approached in the future.
[49:39.140 --> 49:44.160]  And one of those recommendations includes some new bans on domain names.
[49:45.500 --> 49:45.980]  Including...
[49:45.980 --> 49:46.220]  Bans?
[49:46.400 --> 49:46.820]  Bans.
[49:46.820 --> 49:49.140]  It's like, you cannot use these in-domain names.
[49:49.320 --> 49:49.760]  Okay.
[49:49.960 --> 49:51.040]  You're going to love this phrase.
[49:51.240 --> 49:51.480]  All right.
[49:52.760 --> 49:54.960]  International non-proprietary names.
[49:56.340 --> 49:57.000]  What are you saying?
[49:57.060 --> 50:00.940]  So I couldn't go out and have like Isaac's international non-proprietary names.
[50:01.160 --> 50:01.800]  No, no, no, no, no.
[50:01.960 --> 50:02.940]  That's not literal.
[50:03.400 --> 50:06.200]  There are these things called international non-proprietary names.
[50:06.340 --> 50:07.260]  What they are...
[50:07.260 --> 50:10.780]  And it's really funny that they're called non-proprietary names.
[50:10.780 --> 50:12.360]  And they are treating them as if they were proprietary.
[50:13.400 --> 50:14.580]  They're pharmaceutical names.
[50:14.700 --> 50:15.400]  Names of drugs.
[50:16.640 --> 50:18.580]  Like I couldn't go out and get codeine.net?
[50:18.620 --> 50:19.080]  Probably not.
[50:19.180 --> 50:20.360]  Or minoxidil.org.
[50:20.780 --> 50:21.620]  You know, it's...
[50:23.220 --> 50:27.800]  They feel that having a site like that would mislead people.
[50:28.480 --> 50:29.320]  Would make them...
[50:29.320 --> 50:29.920]  Mislead them to what?
[50:30.060 --> 50:32.400]  Mislead them to bad information about drugs.
[50:32.940 --> 50:34.000]  And we can't have that.
[50:35.020 --> 50:35.620]  Oh, no.
[50:36.060 --> 50:37.400]  We can't have bad information about drugs.
[50:37.600 --> 50:38.000]  So...
[50:38.000 --> 50:39.500]  I'm still trying to wrap my brain around this.
[50:40.080 --> 50:40.900]  All right, never mind.
[50:41.060 --> 50:42.880]  I think this is a tremendous threat.
[50:43.640 --> 50:46.120]  And, of course, it goes further than that.
[50:46.240 --> 50:47.620]  So, like, aspirin.com.
[50:47.720 --> 50:48.280]  Not allowed?
[50:48.560 --> 50:49.720]  Yeah, aspirin's not a brand, right?
[50:49.740 --> 50:51.240]  Aspirin is the name of the drug.
[50:51.360 --> 50:52.360]  It's non-proprietary.
[50:52.500 --> 50:58.700]  So, if you go to a site called aspirin.com, you are going to think, naturally, that everything you read on that site is true.
[50:58.840 --> 51:00.200]  And we can't have that.
[51:00.460 --> 51:01.020]  Oh, no.
[51:01.600 --> 51:03.680]  Because I believe everything I read on the internet.
[51:03.940 --> 51:06.460]  Well, it's because of people like you that we have these problems.
[51:07.320 --> 51:09.760]  Now, here's what we're going to be facing.
[51:09.980 --> 51:12.260]  We're going to be facing something that WIPO is suggesting.
[51:13.120 --> 51:14.640]  Banning the name at the source.
[51:14.920 --> 51:18.700]  In other words, when you go to the registrar to register the name, it just won't work.
[51:18.840 --> 51:19.980]  They'll have a ban list.
[51:20.280 --> 51:20.860]  And how do they...
[51:20.860 --> 51:21.340]  Is this great?
[51:21.340 --> 51:22.680]  Everything is about banning these days.
[51:22.680 --> 51:26.380]  How do they propose to implement this over however many registrars there are?
[51:26.380 --> 51:27.620]  That's what they're working on right now.
[51:27.840 --> 51:31.700]  There's scientists right now, deep down in mountains, working on this kind of a thing.
[51:32.020 --> 51:32.440]  And wait, wait, no.
[51:32.440 --> 51:33.220]  Do people have anything better to do?
[51:33.400 --> 51:34.080]  No, they don't.
[51:34.180 --> 51:35.600]  It goes deeper than that.
[51:36.040 --> 51:39.420]  Because they're expanding this to include geographical names.
[51:39.760 --> 51:41.500]  So, you cannot have...
[51:41.500 --> 51:42.780]  Springfield.net?
[51:43.020 --> 51:43.320]  Exactly.
[51:43.960 --> 51:46.340]  City names, country names, things like that.
[51:46.380 --> 51:47.300]  Isn't it a little late for this?
[51:47.300 --> 51:49.480]  How is the city of New York going to register a thing now?
[51:50.100 --> 51:50.660]  Well, no.
[51:51.560 --> 51:54.880]  Registered, you know, bona fide entities can do it, of course.
[51:54.880 --> 51:57.440]  Well, how do you determine if you're a bona fide entity?
[51:57.540 --> 52:00.040]  Maybe I'm going to start the Chamber of Commerce for Isaac's apartment.
[52:02.840 --> 52:04.260]  Go ask them the questions.
[52:04.400 --> 52:05.880]  I'm just telling you the bad news.
[52:07.560 --> 52:11.360]  International intergovernmental organizations also want to be protected.
[52:12.600 --> 52:15.760]  So, like unitednations.com or something like that, you know.
[52:15.940 --> 52:17.120]  Well, I can see that, you know.
[52:17.220 --> 52:18.660]  Someone trying to register a Red Cross.
[52:18.700 --> 52:19.720]  I can't see that.
[52:19.820 --> 52:20.440]  I can't see that.
[52:20.540 --> 52:26.420]  Because all this can be solved with a simple top-level domain that you have some faith in.
[52:26.500 --> 52:28.560]  Like a top-level medical domain for medical information.
[52:28.660 --> 52:30.960]  A top-level international domain.
[52:31.120 --> 52:34.040]  Like INT for international organizations, which we already have.
[52:34.100 --> 52:36.160]  One would think that that was a good idea, INT.
[52:36.460 --> 52:39.940]  Rather than try and control all different top-level domains.
[52:40.180 --> 52:43.400]  Because this is why they don't open more top-level domains.
[52:43.500 --> 52:45.340]  You know, we're just talking about names of files.
[52:45.600 --> 52:46.340]  That's all it is.
[52:46.620 --> 52:47.640]  That's all they have to do.
[52:48.800 --> 52:51.340]  So, there could be hundreds, hundreds of top-level domains.
[52:51.540 --> 52:53.740]  But they'd rather control things like this.
[52:54.300 --> 52:59.280]  So, as sort of a challenge to this, I'd like to invite the BAI listeners to take part in this.
[52:59.400 --> 53:05.640]  We have registered worldintellectualpropertyorganization.com with a single dash separating each word.
[53:06.040 --> 53:07.200]  Can't believe it wasn't taken.
[53:08.520 --> 53:10.620]  And we've registered that site for 10 years.
[53:11.720 --> 53:16.300]  And we intend to put a page on there about the dangers of stupid things like this.
[53:16.600 --> 53:18.880]  World Intellectual Property Organization, for one.
[53:19.580 --> 53:21.400]  We need somebody to come up with a page.
[53:21.480 --> 53:23.600]  And maybe, Isaac, you can be that person if nobody else comes forward.
[53:23.600 --> 53:25.940]  Oh, I've got the creative ability of your average garden.
[53:26.020 --> 53:28.480]  That's why I said, you know, if all else fails.
[53:28.780 --> 53:29.280]  Oh, okay.
[53:29.560 --> 53:34.440]  And if that's not enough excitement for you, World Intellectual Property Day is April 26th.
[53:34.540 --> 53:35.140]  I don't know why.
[53:35.460 --> 53:36.720]  World Intellectual Property Day.
[53:36.720 --> 53:38.740]  Yeah, WIPO has declared a day for themselves.
[53:38.900 --> 53:48.040]  April 26th will be celebrated as the first World Intellectual Property Day, an opportunity to highlight the significance of creativity and innovation in people's daily lives and in the betterment of society.
[53:48.940 --> 53:49.620]  That's sweet.
[53:49.860 --> 53:52.480]  So what does one do for World Intellectual Property Day?
[53:52.640 --> 53:55.380]  Oh, I have some suggestions, but I don't think I'm going to say them over the air.
[53:55.380 --> 54:00.140]  You bake a little cake and make sure all your patents for the recipes are properly filed.
[54:00.140 --> 54:02.540]  The thing is, we have to challenge these kinds of things.
[54:02.640 --> 54:03.060]  Don't you agree?
[54:03.160 --> 54:03.920]  We have to challenge.
[54:03.920 --> 54:08.480]  The DMCA, the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, it's bad legislation.
[54:08.760 --> 54:09.580]  Oh, it's bad legislation.
[54:09.580 --> 54:20.900]  It makes it so that you could conceivably be a criminal or be convicted of violating a statute simply by making source code available.
[54:20.900 --> 54:24.100]  So the way to challenge that is to make the source code available.
[54:24.960 --> 54:26.140]  Challenge the rules.
[54:27.000 --> 54:28.740]  Same thing as what we're talking about here.
[54:29.580 --> 54:35.300]  If it's somehow wrong to talk about certain subjects, you have to talk about those subjects.
[54:36.860 --> 54:37.860]  That's just the way it is.
[54:37.940 --> 54:39.820]  You have to challenge things that you believe are bad.
[54:40.000 --> 54:45.600]  Whether you're in high school, whether you're in college, whether you're, you know, in a foreign country, that's what it's all about.
[54:46.040 --> 54:47.180]  It's about freedom of speech.
[54:47.300 --> 54:47.400]  Okay.
[54:47.800 --> 54:50.380]  We, uh, we have very little time to take phone calls.
[54:50.420 --> 54:51.680]  Let's try and take as many as we can.
[54:52.780 --> 54:53.980]  212-209-2900.
[54:54.100 --> 54:55.680]  We're going to avoid the computer phones.
[54:56.160 --> 54:57.800]  Um, ones with the...
[54:57.800 --> 54:59.460]  We're going to avoid all phones, apparently.
[54:59.640 --> 54:59.920]  Look at that.
[54:59.980 --> 55:00.840]  All the lights went out again.
[55:01.380 --> 55:01.560]  Yep.
[55:01.900 --> 55:02.700]  But I hear the beep.
[55:02.840 --> 55:03.440]  That's the beeping.
[55:03.940 --> 55:04.640]  Isn't that something?
[55:05.280 --> 55:05.400]  Hmm.
[55:05.600 --> 55:07.360]  Beeps are there, but the lights are...
[55:07.360 --> 55:07.660]  Okay.
[55:07.700 --> 55:09.880]  I'm going to just assume that the lights aren't working.
[55:10.260 --> 55:11.220]  And I'm going to press a button.
[55:12.180 --> 55:12.720]  Ah, someone's there.
[55:12.720 --> 55:13.060]  Good evening.
[55:14.640 --> 55:15.040]  Hello.
[55:15.040 --> 55:15.180]  Go ahead.
[55:15.260 --> 55:15.480]  Speak.
[55:16.220 --> 55:16.620]  Hi.
[55:16.800 --> 55:17.000]  Hi.
[55:17.000 --> 55:17.400]  How are you doing?
[55:17.600 --> 55:17.900]  Good.
[55:18.240 --> 55:19.880]  I got through right away.
[55:20.080 --> 55:20.220]  Yeah.
[55:20.320 --> 55:23.020]  Well, try to contain your excitement and tell us what's on your mind.
[55:23.500 --> 55:24.120]  Oh, man.
[55:24.580 --> 55:25.540]  Um, this whole thing...
[55:25.540 --> 55:29.160]  Yeah, this is really off the cuff, right?
[55:29.360 --> 55:30.000]  I'm off the hook.
[55:30.080 --> 55:30.200]  Yeah.
[55:30.220 --> 55:31.600]  And I'll be off the air pretty soon, too.
[55:31.740 --> 55:32.280]  So let's hurry up.
[55:32.740 --> 55:33.040]  Yeah.
[55:33.200 --> 55:33.400]  Okay.
[55:33.540 --> 55:33.780]  Great.
[55:34.100 --> 55:35.940]  Um, oh, man.
[55:36.460 --> 55:36.800]  Okay.
[55:36.800 --> 55:45.440]  So, again, um, this is great that you're announcing the, um, important, uh, stuff about the rally.
[55:45.880 --> 55:53.640]  And, uh, there's also a rally tomorrow, an emergency rally from 4 to... 4.30 to 6 p.m.
[55:53.820 --> 55:56.760]  outside the BAI Studios, 120 Wall Street.
[55:57.540 --> 55:58.180]  Okay.
[55:58.180 --> 56:02.100]  ...is in support of, um, Grandpa Lewis and all the band and fired.
[56:02.960 --> 56:03.440]  Okay.
[56:03.520 --> 56:04.940]  And also in support of the radio station.
[56:04.940 --> 56:10.960]  I think that's something important to, to, to emphasize, that this is a pro-freedom of speech type of a thing.
[56:11.600 --> 56:12.080]  Exactly.
[56:12.560 --> 56:13.360]  There is...
[56:13.360 --> 56:19.640]  In fact, I ran into a woman that I know from, uh, well, I know from BAI.
[56:20.020 --> 56:21.560]  I mean, it's a very...
[56:21.560 --> 56:25.500]  The people who support BAI and want to see it live...
[56:25.500 --> 56:25.640]  Mm-hmm.
[56:26.080 --> 56:27.380]  ...are a very tiny group.
[56:27.380 --> 56:39.100]  And also, she, she was saying that she, just on the street today, she saw so many people that she knows, uh, through BAI.
[56:39.380 --> 56:41.100]  Yeah, it's a, it's a great group.
[56:41.140 --> 56:42.280]  It's a great group of people.
[56:42.500 --> 56:50.200]  And, you know, the reason that I've come out tonight and, and, and, and spoken out in the way I have is because so many people have come up to me in the last week and just wanted to know.
[56:50.320 --> 56:51.740]  You know, they, they have so much misinformation.
[56:52.120 --> 56:55.720]  They, they, uh, you know, they don't know what to make of the situation.
[56:55.720 --> 57:06.760]  The only way to get through this, and we're all going through some painful times because we're all one big family here, the only way to get through that is we have to be able to communicate.
[57:06.760 --> 57:07.520]  We have to be able to talk.
[57:07.680 --> 57:11.980]  I have never felt so passionately about a radio station in my life.
[57:12.120 --> 57:13.300]  And we must be doing something right.
[57:13.460 --> 57:14.560]  Thanks so much for calling.
[57:15.280 --> 57:17.820]  Let's try to make, get one more, two more phone calls.
[57:17.940 --> 57:19.040]  I can't see any of the lights.
[57:19.160 --> 57:19.540]  They're all out.
[57:19.640 --> 57:19.920]  Good evening.
[57:20.000 --> 57:20.380]  You're on the air.
[57:20.620 --> 57:22.140]  Good evening, Emmanuel, everybody.
[57:22.140 --> 57:23.300]  Hey, it's the voice of Monroe.
[57:23.580 --> 57:24.180]  Yeah, right.
[57:24.660 --> 57:31.020]  Listen, I'm very concerned that Utrese hasn't had her voicemail statement changed.
[57:31.700 --> 57:34.160]  Okay, well, that's a personal issue.
[57:34.520 --> 57:35.960]  How odd is it to do?
[57:36.100 --> 57:38.140]  I don't know, but that's something you're going to have to ask her.
[57:38.320 --> 57:43.780]  You call the switchboard during normal business hours, and these are personal issues.
[57:43.880 --> 57:44.680]  I don't want to get into those.
[57:45.080 --> 57:45.380]  Good evening.
[57:45.440 --> 57:45.880]  You're on the air.
[57:46.900 --> 57:50.500]  Okay, it's very hard to see which lights are ringing when the lights aren't lighting up.
[57:50.660 --> 57:51.120]  Good evening.
[57:51.180 --> 57:51.660]  You're on the air.
[57:52.140 --> 57:52.420]  Hi.
[57:52.760 --> 58:07.860]  I just wanted to thank you so much for what you said tonight, and especially the respect you've showed the listeners who have called and have been, you know, disrespected on the air, essentially.
[58:07.860 --> 58:11.380]  Well, I just want the listeners to know that I'm not the only voice here.
[58:11.780 --> 58:18.160]  I say the vast majority of staff people do respect the listeners, and we wouldn't be here without the listeners.
[58:19.180 --> 58:23.340]  Even the people I disagree with here, I don't feel any animosity towards.
[58:23.740 --> 58:28.720]  And it's very important to realize that we're all fighting for the same thing.
[58:28.720 --> 58:33.200]  In the eyes of normal society, we're all a bunch of leftist kooks anyway.
[58:33.880 --> 58:36.580]  So we need to band together and figure things out.
[58:36.740 --> 58:40.760]  I just want to thank you for what you said, and, you know, we may not hear you after this, but I think we will.
[58:40.760 --> 58:41.480]  Yeah, but you know what?
[58:41.760 --> 58:47.900]  If my saying what I said tonight is enough to get me booted, then it's, you know, something I had to say, I guess.
[58:48.180 --> 58:49.800]  But I don't think it is.
[58:50.340 --> 58:52.320]  At least I sure hope we haven't reached that stage.
[58:53.040 --> 58:54.280]  But we'll know pretty soon, won't we?
[58:54.280 --> 58:54.280]  Okay.
[58:54.840 --> 58:56.460]  One more phone call, then we've got to get out of here.
[58:56.780 --> 58:57.240]  Good evening.
[58:57.300 --> 58:57.720]  You're on the air.
[58:58.500 --> 58:58.760]  Oh, that's right.
[58:58.780 --> 58:59.440]  These are the deadlines.
[58:59.580 --> 58:59.860]  I'm sorry.
[58:59.980 --> 59:00.200]  Hold on.
[59:00.320 --> 59:01.300]  Let's try up here.
[59:01.500 --> 59:02.000]  Good evening.
[59:02.120 --> 59:02.660]  You're on the air.
[59:03.020 --> 59:04.260]  Oh, that's the dial tone.
[59:04.440 --> 59:04.680]  Okay.
[59:05.380 --> 59:05.820]  Good evening.
[59:05.960 --> 59:06.560]  You're on the air.
[59:06.760 --> 59:08.020]  Hey, Emmanuel Polgarin here.
[59:08.100 --> 59:08.520]  How you doing?
[59:08.560 --> 59:09.780]  Hey, you only have about 30 seconds.
[59:09.980 --> 59:10.100]  Okay.
[59:10.300 --> 59:14.940]  It's been rumored that the Federal Trade Commission wants to outlaw independent routes.
[59:15.180 --> 59:16.200]  That's one thing.
[59:16.320 --> 59:21.260]  Another one is if you have sucks in a domain name, it's now accepted as free speech.
[59:21.880 --> 59:23.020]  So we put that.
[59:23.220 --> 59:28.540]  So people should register .sucks and on the WIPO Day, switch your DNS to namespace.
[59:28.540 --> 59:31.140]  Go to namespace.org slash switch.
[59:31.520 --> 59:31.820]  Okay.
[59:32.060 --> 59:32.800]  Hey, thanks for the info.
[59:32.900 --> 59:34.180]  Thanks for all the work you've done over the years.
[59:34.660 --> 59:44.120]  We'll be back again next week, hopefully, and talking about all kinds of other information on freedom of speech, Internet of Action, and, well, we'll tell you how WIPO Day went, among other things.
[59:44.560 --> 59:45.440]  Until then, Emmanuel Goldstein.
[59:45.460 --> 59:45.820]  Have a good night.
[59:46.760 --> 59:49.500]  I hope I've done this good, but let me know.
[01:00:44.370 --> 01:00:45.670]  Extra, extra.
[01:00:46.150 --> 01:00:47.370]  Hear all about it.
[01:00:47.550 --> 01:00:48.610]  Extra, extra.
[01:00:53.930 --> 01:01:08.210]  I'm Earl Caldwell, Editor-in-Chief of the Caldwell Chronicle, the newspaper of the air, right here on WBAI-FM 99.5, every Friday, 3 to 5 p.m.
[01:01:08.210 --> 01:01:17.430]  The big story, feature stories, editorials, boards, investigative pieces, obits, and, yes, personals with you.
[01:01:17.630 --> 01:01:26.410]  That's every Friday, 3 to 5 p.m., right here, WBAI 99.5 FM.
[01:01:28.290 --> 01:01:29.570]  I'm Earl Caldwell, Editor-in-Chief of the Caldwell Chronicle, and, yes, personals with you, and, yes, personals with you, and, yes, personals with you, and, yes, personals with you, and, yes, personals with you, and, yes, personals with you, and, yes,
[01:01:29.570 --> 01:01:30.550]  personals with you, and, yes, personals with you, and, yes, personals with you, and, yes, personals with you, and, yes, personals with you, and, yes, personals with you, and, yes, personals with you, and, yes, personals with you, and, yes, personals with you,
[01:01:30.550 --> 01:01:31.190]  and, yes, personals with you, and, yes, personals with you, and, yes, personals with you, and, yes, personals with you, and, yes, personals with you, and, yes, personals with you, and, yes, personals with you, and,