[00:01.210 --> 00:03.470]  And East 10th Street.
[00:03.750 --> 00:07.810]  Be there or be inarticulated.
[00:38.200 --> 00:40.560]  Hey, love.
[00:44.310 --> 00:47.350]  May I have a word with you.
[00:48.970 --> 00:51.710]  Hi, this is Carlotta Joy Walker.
[00:51.910 --> 00:52.690]  Heart time.
[00:53.010 --> 00:55.970]  Healing energy always rejuvenates trust.
[00:56.230 --> 00:56.470]  Trust.
[00:56.770 --> 00:57.130]  Imagine.
[00:57.430 --> 00:58.170]  Metamorphize.
[00:58.370 --> 00:58.770]  Evolve.
[00:58.770 --> 01:00.790]  And I'm here just to thank you.
[01:00.970 --> 01:04.270]  Thank you for constantly rejuvenating our trust.
[01:04.410 --> 01:06.590]  Thank you for your new membership.
[01:06.950 --> 01:08.890]  Thank you for renewing your memberships.
[01:09.090 --> 01:13.210]  And thank you for paying your pledges, those of you who have not done that yet.
[01:13.490 --> 01:16.110]  And thank you for being a part of us and supporting us.
[01:16.110 --> 01:17.150]  Open and breaking.
[01:20.870 --> 01:26.870]  Okay, and this is radio station WBAI New York, where the time is 7.05.
[01:28.070 --> 01:31.250]  55 minutes early, but we're here early this week.
[01:31.510 --> 01:33.850]  A special edition of Off the Hook.
[01:36.050 --> 01:39.210]  No matter what people say, these songs lead the way.
[01:39.530 --> 01:41.710]  It's out of your day from the boss DJ, Don.
[01:48.960 --> 01:53.460]  The telephone keeps ringing, so I ripped it off the wall.
[01:54.420 --> 01:59.080]  I cut myself while shaving, now I can't make a cough.
[02:00.060 --> 02:04.480]  And now I got a headache, or maybe it's a tooth.
[02:04.480 --> 02:07.480]  I mean, no, this couldn't get much worse.
[02:08.140 --> 02:10.020]  I've gots to tell the truth.
[02:10.780 --> 02:12.960]  No, it couldn't get much worse.
[02:15.760 --> 02:18.460]  Bum-dilly-bump, but the best is back the worst.
[02:19.100 --> 02:20.980]  I hope that's understood.
[02:21.220 --> 02:22.020]  Bum-dilly-bo!
[02:27.740 --> 02:29.600]  I just ran out of milk.
[02:30.200 --> 02:32.100]  There's no paper in the loo.
[02:32.280 --> 02:33.280]  Bum-dilly-bump.
[02:33.520 --> 02:35.220]  And now it started raining.
[02:36.140 --> 02:37.580]  Lightning under two.
[02:37.820 --> 02:38.660]  Bum-dilly-bo!
[02:38.660 --> 02:38.760]  Bum-dilly-bo!
[02:38.880 --> 02:43.440]  And now I begin to wonder, how bad can you get?
[02:44.240 --> 02:48.880]  A burger comes in through my door, makes my TV set.
[02:49.820 --> 02:54.680]  So why light up the cigarette, listen to some sounds?
[02:55.500 --> 03:00.020]  Set my house on fire, burnt it to the ground.
[03:01.020 --> 03:02.840]  Couldn't get much worse.
[03:10.870 --> 03:11.950]  Bum-dilly-bo!
[03:17.750 --> 03:22.170]  Now I've got a console, my brother's on the run.
[03:23.330 --> 03:27.630]  I might have a change of luck, before my day is done.
[03:28.810 --> 03:30.530]  Couldn't get much worse.
[03:31.250 --> 03:33.090]  But if they could, they would.
[03:33.350 --> 03:35.990]  Bum-dilly-bump for the best, expect the worst.
[03:35.990 --> 03:36.150]  Bum-dilly-bump for the best.
[03:46.000 --> 03:48.180]  Bum-dilly-bump
[03:54.560 --> 04:07.560]  for the best.
[04:07.560 --> 04:07.820]  Boop!
[04:13.560 --> 04:14.740]  See sunset.
[06:12.760 --> 06:13.920]  If they could, they would.
[06:14.280 --> 06:16.880]  From Liddley Bom, for the best, expect the worst.
[06:17.600 --> 06:19.400]  I hope that's understood.
[06:19.660 --> 06:20.480]  From Liddley Bom,
[06:46.560 --> 06:48.560]  got your hand on my bow.
[06:54.770 --> 06:55.690]  See, Sunset.
[08:25.290 --> 08:27.930]  Okay, now you can say that you heard the whole thing.
[08:28.050 --> 08:31.010]  That's where it came from.
[08:31.130 --> 08:35.810]  That's where the off-the-hook theme originally came from way back in the old days.
[08:35.810 --> 08:38.570]  And we sometimes do that when we do an extended show.
[08:38.570 --> 08:40.610]  Because it's the extended mix, I guess.
[08:41.310 --> 08:42.990]  The song is called Much Worse.
[08:43.170 --> 08:45.190]  It comes from Don Lutz and Big Audio Dynamite.
[08:45.330 --> 08:48.910]  And if you can find that on CD, you're better than I am.
[08:48.950 --> 08:50.390]  Because I can only find it on vinyl.
[08:50.390 --> 08:51.850]  And I can't even find that anymore.
[08:52.070 --> 08:55.350]  It's on the flip side of a single called Just Play Music.
[08:56.470 --> 08:58.090]  So that's the story there.
[08:58.770 --> 08:59.690]  This is Emanuel Goldstein.
[08:59.790 --> 09:01.310]  The program is off-the-hook.
[09:01.470 --> 09:03.790]  We have a special three-hour edition tonight.
[09:03.810 --> 09:05.190]  And we have all kinds of things planned.
[09:06.870 --> 09:08.410]  Isaac will be coming in in a little while.
[09:09.330 --> 09:10.390]  Laszlo is here now.
[09:10.910 --> 09:11.910]  How are you doing, Laszlo?
[09:13.850 --> 09:19.350]  I've been over here bartering Sasquatch dollars for quarters for your car, which is downstairs illegally.
[09:19.590 --> 09:21.690]  Yeah, we've got to deal with that.
[09:21.910 --> 09:25.630]  I'll tell you, it was an unbelievable challenge getting in today.
[09:25.690 --> 09:26.070]  I left.
[09:26.090 --> 09:28.510]  I left a good three hours early to make sure I got here on time.
[09:28.630 --> 09:34.190]  But Mother Nature was not cooperating because a little bit of drizzle makes everybody in the expressway drive 15 miles an hour.
[09:36.610 --> 09:41.670]  And when I got to Wall Street, I don't know what they're doing down there, but there's cops everywhere.
[09:41.670 --> 09:42.950]  They're closing off all the roads.
[09:43.130 --> 09:45.330]  They're making you go on these wild-like patterns.
[09:46.030 --> 09:47.150]  They're going all different directions.
[09:47.330 --> 09:48.170]  There's a race down there.
[09:48.210 --> 09:49.610]  I saw a bunch of guys in suits running.
[09:51.390 --> 09:53.350]  Well, it wasn't a race to get here.
[09:53.350 --> 09:54.670]  It was an ordeal to get here.
[09:54.770 --> 10:00.330]  But I got here, and that's the important thing, and we're here today bringing you all kinds of fascinating things.
[10:00.430 --> 10:05.430]  We're going to be talking to some people in various parts of the country, some of whom you know, some of whom you might not know.
[10:06.890 --> 10:08.910]  Laszlo, what have you been up to in the last few months?
[10:08.910 --> 10:10.770]  It's been since you've been in the studios here.
[10:10.770 --> 10:15.930]  Yeah, you know, doing my daily syndicated radio feature called The Technophile.
[10:17.450 --> 10:19.330]  Lately, I've been working on a video game.
[10:20.750 --> 10:21.730]  A video game?
[10:21.850 --> 10:22.570]  Yeah, yeah.
[10:23.470 --> 10:25.370]  It's called Grand Theft Auto 3.
[10:26.010 --> 10:28.090]  So who did Grand Theft Auto 2 and won?
[10:28.330 --> 10:29.450]  Well, the same guys.
[10:29.710 --> 10:30.190]  Oh, okay.
[10:30.330 --> 10:31.370]  But you're working on 3.
[10:31.570 --> 10:31.830]  Yeah.
[10:32.170 --> 10:32.410]  Okay.
[10:32.630 --> 10:36.150]  Basically, every time you get into a car, there's a radio station on.
[10:36.270 --> 10:37.270]  Well, when you steal a car.
[10:37.410 --> 10:37.590]  Right.
[10:37.590 --> 10:45.530]  And there's a different radio station on, and it's my job to do all the DJs and the music and the commercials.
[10:45.930 --> 10:50.350]  And the DJs say stuff like, you know, here's another one picked by our consultants.
[10:50.850 --> 10:55.470]  Or, you know, it's basically a big bash of corporate radio.
[10:55.590 --> 10:56.010]  It's good fun.
[10:56.430 --> 10:57.230]  Corporate radio.
[10:57.390 --> 10:58.990]  Boy, don't get me started on that.
[10:58.990 --> 11:03.310]  Well, I'm going to because I've got a nice 10-page Clear Channel report, a Clear Channel update for you.
[11:03.910 --> 11:08.150]  So you want to tell the folks now that we've been bought up by Clear Channel and we start the top 40 tomorrow morning?
[11:09.050 --> 11:09.890]  It had to happen.
[11:10.110 --> 11:10.250]  Yeah.
[11:10.450 --> 11:12.430]  Well, you know, it's going to be the best top 40 in town, though.
[11:12.610 --> 11:14.170]  You know, we're going to be a different top 40.
[11:14.430 --> 11:16.790]  We'll play the same songs, but we'll just announce them differently.
[11:17.530 --> 11:18.310]  I can just see.
[11:18.330 --> 11:22.010]  I can just see the emails being sent right now and the phone calls, phone hotlines being started.
[11:22.110 --> 11:22.550]  No, no, no.
[11:23.030 --> 11:25.370]  This is WBAI, and we're going to stay WBAI until...
[11:26.270 --> 11:27.250]  Are we doing a fundraiser?
[11:27.350 --> 11:27.730]  Is that the deal?
[11:27.810 --> 11:28.890]  Yeah, fundraiser is today.
[11:28.890 --> 11:30.070]  And we...
[11:30.070 --> 11:33.410]  Because that's the one time you ever invite me is, oh, Laszlo, come tell us about corporate radio.
[11:33.410 --> 11:36.410]  No, actually, and I want to make this clear for the record, the invitation is open all the time.
[11:36.410 --> 11:39.330]  And I certainly would enjoy having you here more.
[11:39.730 --> 11:40.690]  So feel free.
[11:41.110 --> 11:43.350]  The show is on every Tuesday from 8 to 9.
[11:43.590 --> 11:44.530]  Come on by anytime.
[11:44.690 --> 11:45.690]  You're most welcome.
[11:45.790 --> 12:02.270]  But you're especially welcome during the fundraiser because you bring this perspective from commercial radio that a lot of people just will never see, mostly because we never listen to commercial radio, but also because those of us who do listen to commercial radio don't realize the crap that goes on behind the scenes and how awful and nasty it is.
[12:02.570 --> 12:05.470]  But we're going to get into that in a little bit because I want to tell a story first.
[12:05.730 --> 12:09.730]  I want to tell a story about what happened over this past few days.
[12:09.930 --> 12:10.870]  It was a real...
[12:10.870 --> 12:11.950]  You've been following the case, right?
[12:12.070 --> 12:14.030]  The whole Ford case.
[12:14.030 --> 12:15.550]  Yeah, because you use bad words.
[12:15.770 --> 12:16.810]  Use bad words, yeah.
[12:17.030 --> 12:19.550]  A really bad word followed by GeneralMotors.com.
[12:20.010 --> 12:23.990]  And we thought it would be fun to, you know, to bounce that various places.
[12:24.270 --> 12:29.130]  One of the places we wound up bouncing it was Ford, and they sued us because we did that.
[12:29.310 --> 12:31.170]  They didn't ask us to move it someplace else.
[12:31.230 --> 12:38.870]  They just sued us for no other reason, and they didn't like that four-letter word pointing at their site with their competitor's name after it.
[12:39.170 --> 12:40.770]  Because it's trademark infringement.
[12:40.850 --> 12:44.210]  How dare you speak their name without sending them money or something?
[12:44.270 --> 12:46.310]  It was the weirdest thing.
[12:46.310 --> 12:51.030]  I mean, you know, you would expect them to claim something like defamation of character, but instead they claimed trademark infringement.
[12:51.110 --> 12:52.810]  So it was a very bizarre, weird thing.
[12:52.930 --> 12:56.990]  So you're infringing on somebody's trademark if you say a curse word next to it.
[12:57.090 --> 12:58.290]  Well, we can just say...
[12:58.290 --> 13:00.610]  Well, we didn't even say their name, you know.
[13:00.690 --> 13:01.410]  You said somebody else's name.
[13:01.410 --> 13:04.450]  We said the equivalent of GeneralMotorsSucks.com, but we didn't.
[13:04.530 --> 13:12.130]  We said another word instead because those words were able to be registered for the first time ever, actually, since NSI started censoring things years ago.
[13:12.310 --> 13:13.310]  They used to be able to be registered.
[13:13.830 --> 13:18.850]  But back in 1999, I believe, it opened up so all these words could be registered again.
[13:18.990 --> 13:20.150]  And there was kind of a run on them.
[13:20.230 --> 13:24.090]  And big corporations with those words surrounding them were the first to go.
[13:24.590 --> 13:25.770]  So we got General Motors.
[13:25.950 --> 13:26.510]  We got ABC.
[13:26.890 --> 13:27.410]  We got NBC.
[13:27.590 --> 13:28.270]  No, we didn't get ABC.
[13:28.370 --> 13:29.830]  We got NBC and CBS.
[13:30.030 --> 13:31.610]  ABC and Fox were gone before...
[13:31.610 --> 13:33.570]  How many domain names do you own?
[13:33.570 --> 13:34.130]  I don't know.
[13:34.390 --> 13:35.050]  I've lost track.
[13:36.530 --> 13:39.490]  You must get like a bill every day for one of your domain names.
[13:39.510 --> 13:40.390]  Here's the thing.
[13:40.390 --> 13:42.770]  We didn't even advertise this at all.
[13:42.770 --> 13:44.290]  We didn't talk about this site.
[13:44.410 --> 13:47.830]  We'd never mention it to anybody until the lawsuit threat started coming in.
[13:47.950 --> 13:49.890]  First, the first lawsuit threat came from General Motors.
[13:50.110 --> 13:51.830]  That's when we were pointing it at General Motors.
[13:52.030 --> 13:56.150]  You know, you type F space or, you know, F and you know what, GeneralMotors.com.
[13:56.790 --> 13:57.910]  You'd go to General Motors.
[13:58.050 --> 14:03.790]  Well, somebody at General Motors must have done that on their own because they found it and they sent us this nasty letter.
[14:03.890 --> 14:13.750]  If you go to our site, www.2600.com and look in the news archives in October, you'll see a copy of the letter they sent us, basically telling us to knock it off and give them the site.
[14:14.250 --> 14:16.810]  I guess they wanted it for their own uses.
[14:17.410 --> 14:26.110]  But we told them that was not a possibility, that this was something called freedom of speech and that we had every right to do this, you know, as distasteful as it might sound or as they might find it.
[14:26.830 --> 14:28.210]  And that was pretty much the end of it.
[14:28.210 --> 14:36.870]  At that point, we pointed it to various other places, including a lemon site, a site that had to do with people reporting lemon cars.
[14:37.910 --> 14:50.450]  Now, apparently, because of all the news stories surrounding the original General Motors story, that wound up getting us a lot of traffic, a lot more traffic than we ordinarily would have had since we never mentioned the site to anybody.
[14:50.590 --> 14:55.910]  And this poor guy who was running the lemon site was getting all this traffic out of nowhere that he never saw before.
[14:56.070 --> 15:03.850]  Which, you know, most times it's good, but when you're borrowing bandwidth from somebody and, you know, you're kind of living day to day, it wasn't good in this case.
[15:03.970 --> 15:08.390]  He sent us an email saying, please, I'm going to have to move someplace else if this doesn't stop.
[15:08.590 --> 15:11.970]  So, you know, there was a letter to us asking us to move someplace else.
[15:12.050 --> 15:15.610]  And of course, you know, the right thing to do would be to move someplace else.
[15:15.690 --> 15:16.050]  And we did.
[15:16.510 --> 15:17.430]  We moved it to Ford.
[15:18.110 --> 15:22.010]  Now, Ford apparently didn't like it being pointed at them either, but they didn't send us a little letter.
[15:22.110 --> 15:22.850]  They didn't send us anything.
[15:23.010 --> 15:25.310]  They didn't even They didn't even say please.
[15:25.550 --> 15:26.430]  They didn't say anything.
[15:26.610 --> 15:29.990]  All they did was get their lawyers on us and actually sue us.
[15:30.090 --> 15:31.430]  Just bang, sue, like that.
[15:31.610 --> 15:34.530]  Can't you just like send them an apology or something and say we're sorry?
[15:34.670 --> 15:35.710]  Well, I'm not sorry.
[15:35.750 --> 15:37.010]  I have nothing to apologize for.
[15:37.090 --> 15:38.250]  We pointed a site someplace.
[15:38.430 --> 15:39.890]  And if they don't like it, they can lump it.
[15:40.010 --> 15:41.710]  Or they can ask nicely and maybe we'll move it.
[15:41.790 --> 15:44.090]  But we have the right to link to wherever we want to link.
[15:44.150 --> 15:45.510]  It's always been the case with the internet.
[15:45.790 --> 15:46.710]  That's how the web works.
[15:46.770 --> 15:47.850]  You link to various things.
[15:47.970 --> 15:55.050]  If you start saying that you cannot link because you did not have permission or because you're misrepresenting yourself, which we were not doing.
[15:55.050 --> 15:57.590]  If you did a who is look up on our site, you knew who owned it.
[15:57.690 --> 15:58.930]  That's how they found us, after all.
[15:59.890 --> 16:06.010]  If you start doing that, if you start making a precedent in this case, all of a sudden, the whole concept of links goes straight out the window.
[16:06.570 --> 16:10.950]  And before you know it, you can't link to WBAI unless you get permission from WBAI, you know?
[16:11.110 --> 16:13.610]  And WBAI isn't going to give permission unless you pay us.
[16:14.030 --> 16:14.770]  How do you like that?
[16:14.870 --> 16:15.070]  You know?
[16:15.290 --> 16:16.370]  That's where it could go.
[16:16.650 --> 16:18.770]  And that's how the entire net could change.
[16:18.770 --> 16:25.590]  See, but you're distracting Ford from its real mission of shutting down American factories and opening up sweatshop factories overseas.
[16:25.730 --> 16:27.190]  It's very interesting you should say that.
[16:27.250 --> 16:28.430]  It's very interesting you should say that.
[16:28.470 --> 16:30.210]  Because I've got quite a story to tell you.
[16:30.270 --> 16:32.410]  First, let me tell you about the caravan.
[16:32.690 --> 16:36.510]  We had a little caravan to the hearing on Friday, last Friday.
[16:36.670 --> 16:44.430]  We actually took the 2600 van, which is an old phone company van repainted to look like a phone company van and with our logos on it and everything like that.
[16:44.650 --> 16:47.950]  And we took it all the way to Detroit via Canada.
[16:47.950 --> 16:49.350]  We took the thruway up.
[16:49.570 --> 16:51.470]  And we made all kinds of stops along the way.
[16:51.610 --> 16:52.770]  I stopped in Poughkeepsie.
[16:52.970 --> 16:53.890]  We had quite a few people there.
[16:54.630 --> 16:55.730]  I'm on the air in Poughkeepsie.
[16:55.910 --> 16:57.230]  You're on the air in Poughkeepsie?
[16:57.390 --> 16:57.850]  No kidding.
[16:58.730 --> 16:59.930]  We stopped in Syracuse.
[17:00.110 --> 17:00.910]  I'm on the air there too.
[17:01.130 --> 17:01.690]  How about Buffalo?
[17:02.850 --> 17:03.210]  Rochester.
[17:03.850 --> 17:04.610]  I said Buffalo.
[17:04.830 --> 17:05.250]  Okay, no.
[17:05.310 --> 17:05.410]  Yeah.
[17:06.130 --> 17:07.930]  Buffalo's kind of a weird town, you know?
[17:07.930 --> 17:16.390]  You know, you pass a lot of these towns and they seem kind of like empty and depressed and there's like nothing really going on there, a lot of abandoned buildings.
[17:17.090 --> 17:20.830]  And, you know, Buffalo's not that bad, but it's pretty bad.
[17:21.010 --> 17:22.850]  It's pretty sad to be there, actually.
[17:22.890 --> 17:23.830]  I just always feel that way.
[17:23.890 --> 17:25.030]  I've been to Buffalo several times.
[17:27.170 --> 17:29.830]  We stopped, got some wings at one of the wings.
[17:29.930 --> 17:33.470]  We couldn't go to the main wing place because it closed at 10 o'clock at night.
[17:33.810 --> 17:34.790]  10 o'clock at night.
[17:35.510 --> 17:37.810]  But we went to this other one and I got the suicide wings.
[17:38.530 --> 17:41.410]  I had to sign a little certificate, you know, a release.
[17:42.770 --> 17:44.350]  They take it very seriously up there.
[17:44.470 --> 17:45.670]  But then we went over to Canada.
[17:46.590 --> 17:48.370]  We drove across the border to Canada.
[17:49.750 --> 17:50.770]  And I always...
[17:50.770 --> 17:52.350]  This is the reason I went this way.
[17:52.510 --> 17:56.390]  People said I should have gone the more direct way on the Pennsylvania Turnpike or something.
[17:56.950 --> 17:59.570]  And I should have, you know, gone for speed.
[17:59.690 --> 18:00.710]  But, you know, I didn't want to go for speed.
[18:00.730 --> 18:01.570]  I wanted to go for people.
[18:01.710 --> 18:02.850]  I wanted to go for interesting things.
[18:02.850 --> 18:05.330]  And I always get this whenever I go to Canada.
[18:05.530 --> 18:07.090]  I always get interesting things.
[18:07.250 --> 18:07.870]  You know, diversity.
[18:09.090 --> 18:12.330]  Someone told me that Canada considers itself...
[18:12.330 --> 18:14.490]  Well, actually, let me tell you what we consider ourselves.
[18:14.630 --> 18:16.930]  What's the United States usually called?
[18:17.090 --> 18:17.810]  Number one!
[18:18.070 --> 18:20.270]  Well, apart from that, it's...
[18:20.270 --> 18:24.270]  The thing that immigrants are...
[18:24.270 --> 18:25.370]  A melting pot.
[18:25.390 --> 18:26.330]  A great melting pot.
[18:27.990 --> 18:31.610]  Now, in Canada, they call themselves a mosaic.
[18:31.610 --> 18:32.910]  A mosaic.
[18:33.190 --> 18:33.270]  A mosaic.
[18:33.270 --> 18:36.110]  Now, consider the difference between a melting pot and a mosaic.
[18:36.270 --> 18:43.750]  A melting pot is where you throw everybody into a pot, and all their differences are just kind of merged into one big blob.
[18:44.090 --> 18:44.630]  All right?
[18:44.810 --> 18:51.430]  Whereas a mosaic has all kinds of different patterns to it, all kinds of different colors and shapes.
[18:51.430 --> 18:59.490]  And that really does sum up Canada a lot more because you see people of ethnic diversity there who remain who they are.
[18:59.650 --> 19:08.490]  They are not forced to speak one particular language and not forced to do things one particular way, and they're not fed this nationalistic attitude that we're constantly getting here.
[19:08.490 --> 19:13.750]  And, you know, it's just so much better as far as not getting hassled.
[19:14.010 --> 19:22.350]  I think the whole time we were in Canada, we went to Toronto, Windsor, London, and there was one other along the way whose name I forget, and I'm sorry.
[19:24.310 --> 19:28.250]  I don't think I saw more than two cops, two cop cars.
[19:29.770 --> 19:35.310]  Now, there is no city in this country where you will not see half a dozen within 30 seconds.
[19:35.990 --> 19:37.710]  It's really getting crazy.
[19:37.910 --> 19:38.590]  It really is.
[19:38.730 --> 19:41.130]  And you have to warn you, you have to take a good look back.
[19:41.210 --> 19:43.170]  It wasn't like this years ago.
[19:43.450 --> 19:44.830]  You didn't see police everywhere.
[19:45.010 --> 19:46.890]  And not only are they everywhere, they're obnoxious.
[19:47.010 --> 19:48.810]  They plow through red lights.
[19:49.050 --> 19:51.470]  You know, they just disregards it.
[19:51.470 --> 19:54.250]  I mean, the rudeness I had to deal with downstairs just getting here.
[19:54.470 --> 19:56.650]  You know, I was trying to find out, well, what's the best way to get here?
[19:56.730 --> 19:59.630]  And I thought I was going to get shot if I asked another question.
[19:59.710 --> 20:01.450]  That's the looks I was getting.
[20:02.850 --> 20:08.850]  Anyway, so that's one of the reasons I like to cut through our neighbors to the north.
[20:09.070 --> 20:10.430]  It just seems a lot saner.
[20:10.530 --> 20:11.430]  They are much saner.
[20:11.650 --> 20:12.630]  Are you carried in Canada?
[20:13.570 --> 20:13.890]  No.
[20:14.530 --> 20:14.730]  Why not?
[20:14.810 --> 20:15.370]  I don't know.
[20:15.370 --> 20:16.110]  Well, there's weird...
[20:16.110 --> 20:20.450]  They have weird rules on how much programming you can...
[20:20.450 --> 20:24.330]  As a Canadian radio station, there's rules about how much other...
[20:24.330 --> 20:24.970]  Canadian content.
[20:24.970 --> 20:28.290]  ...outside content you can air and all this other stuff.
[20:28.450 --> 20:31.550]  Which, part of me is like, wow, that's really silly.
[20:31.710 --> 20:34.850]  But another part of me is like, we churn out a whole lot of crap down here.
[20:36.010 --> 20:36.410]  So...
[20:36.410 --> 20:37.230]  Yeah, yeah.
[20:37.430 --> 20:41.850]  Well, you know, while I don't like that, I understand where it comes from.
[20:41.850 --> 20:44.930]  Because, yeah, as you say, they're barraged with garbage.
[20:45.370 --> 20:50.630]  And you can lose your national identity pretty damn easily if you don't take steps.
[20:50.690 --> 20:52.010]  They shouldn't have to take these steps.
[20:52.350 --> 20:57.490]  Speaking of losing identity, you know, at some point I should start saying the phone number over and over again.
[20:57.610 --> 20:59.910]  Yeah, actually, we're getting pledges even though we're not asking for money.
[21:00.710 --> 21:01.450]  Which is the best part.
[21:01.590 --> 21:04.070]  212-209-2950 is our phone number.
[21:04.070 --> 21:05.050]  0-9, what, 2-9?
[21:05.310 --> 21:06.130]  2-9-5-0.
[21:06.750 --> 21:14.990]  And if you've gotten something out of Off the Hook over the many years we've been on, we've been on since 1988, please call us now and make a pledge.
[21:15.090 --> 21:21.970]  We have several levels of pledging, which our volunteers will be happy to help you with and we'll talk about in just a moment.
[21:22.050 --> 21:27.390]  And if you donate at the $500 level, you get a signed copy of one of the lawsuits that Emanuel spent.
[21:28.870 --> 21:29.670]  Yeah, yeah.
[21:30.270 --> 21:33.850]  You know, we went to Niagara Falls on the...
[21:33.850 --> 21:34.950]  Well, you'd sort of have to do that.
[21:35.070 --> 21:36.030]  Who are these people you're with?
[21:36.110 --> 21:37.610]  Well, I'm not going to give out names, but basically...
[21:37.610 --> 21:38.330]  Merry pranksters?
[21:38.410 --> 21:42.790]  Well, you know, we didn't get like, you know, 25 cars in a row.
[21:42.790 --> 21:49.030]  But what we mostly got were, you know, people in town meeting us that we saw, you know, we met up with, that showed their support.
[21:49.170 --> 21:51.550]  I mean, not everybody can just hop in a car and drive, you know, across country.
[21:51.690 --> 21:53.690]  And it's, you know, unfortunate, but that's the way it is.
[21:54.030 --> 21:54.990]  But we were getting...
[21:54.990 --> 21:57.450]  I set up my Sprint phone to receive email.
[21:58.310 --> 22:01.330]  And every half hour, at least, I get a piece of email.
[22:01.510 --> 22:07.410]  It would alert me that someone else was interested in the caravan and was, you know, wanting more information, wanted to meet us someplace.
[22:08.050 --> 22:14.650]  And that alone was pretty cool, just feeling like you were in touch with everybody as things, you know, went on.
[22:14.930 --> 22:19.650]  But standing there in Niagara Falls on the Canada side, it was something like 2 in the morning.
[22:19.650 --> 22:21.470]  It was really late, all right?
[22:21.510 --> 22:23.110]  There was nobody around.
[22:23.930 --> 22:33.850]  Now, what do you think happens if you go to a national park in this country and hang out in a phone company van at 2 in the morning when nobody's around?
[22:34.150 --> 22:35.410]  The pigs are going to harass you.
[22:35.410 --> 22:36.710]  You're going to get SWAT teams.
[22:37.610 --> 22:42.030]  You're going to get all kinds of people approaching you thinking...
[22:42.030 --> 22:46.330]  I mean, I don't know what they would think we were going to do, you know, to the falls, blow them up or something, but it doesn't matter.
[22:46.450 --> 22:50.850]  You know, we live in such paranoia that, you know, anything, anything is suspect.
[22:51.750 --> 22:58.510]  We parked on the side of a road that said no parking, hung out for half an hour, and just took in the falls in the middle of the night.
[22:59.170 --> 23:00.490]  Nobody said anything to us.
[23:00.690 --> 23:01.610]  Nobody bothered us.
[23:02.110 --> 23:04.430]  People walked by, you know, didn't say anything.
[23:04.430 --> 23:05.090]  It was cool.
[23:05.490 --> 23:06.190]  No pressure.
[23:06.990 --> 23:08.410]  Well, then what are we doing here?
[23:08.450 --> 23:09.310]  Let's move to Canada.
[23:09.610 --> 23:10.490]  Well, yeah.
[23:10.790 --> 23:12.190]  A lot of people do suggest that.
[23:12.370 --> 23:12.990]  Oh, I like it.
[23:13.010 --> 23:13.750]  I was in Vancouver.
[23:13.750 --> 23:15.470]  They got this place called the Blunt Brothers.
[23:15.710 --> 23:15.990]  Mm-hmm.
[23:16.810 --> 23:17.390]  It's the same...
[23:17.390 --> 23:17.590]  Okay.
[23:18.170 --> 23:19.190]  It's the same thing.
[23:19.270 --> 23:20.230]  It's like Amsterdam over there.
[23:20.270 --> 23:24.950]  It's the same philosophy that I like to carry on to this place, this radio station.
[23:24.950 --> 23:28.770]  I know a lot of things are going on here at the radio station that many people are upset with.
[23:30.150 --> 23:32.010]  And, you know, what do you do about it?
[23:32.110 --> 23:34.130]  Do you stay and try to make things better?
[23:34.150 --> 23:37.830]  Or do you leave and go somewhere else and listen to K-Rock or Z100 or something like that?
[23:37.830 --> 23:38.190]  K-Rock.
[23:38.350 --> 23:38.570]  Yeah.
[23:39.230 --> 23:39.590]  Okay.
[23:39.830 --> 23:42.370]  So, you see, it's the same basic mentality.
[23:42.890 --> 23:51.970]  Either you stay and try to make something better, or you give up and go someplace else where it's not better, and you live with that.
[23:52.710 --> 23:53.150]  You know?
[23:53.530 --> 23:54.470]  You kind of give up.
[23:54.590 --> 23:54.770]  Right.
[23:54.810 --> 23:56.030]  And once it's gone, it's gone.
[23:56.210 --> 23:56.610]  That's right.
[23:56.710 --> 23:57.330]  It ain't coming back.
[23:57.470 --> 23:57.830]  That's right.
[23:59.110 --> 24:00.250]  Can I see the phone number again?
[24:00.450 --> 24:00.950]  Yeah, go ahead.
[24:00.950 --> 24:03.890]  It's 212-209-2950.
[24:04.470 --> 24:06.810]  You can win fabulous prizes from a manual.
[24:07.950 --> 24:09.070]  Well, yeah, you might.
[24:09.170 --> 24:09.470]  You might.
[24:09.670 --> 24:10.910]  I can't guarantee that.
[24:11.510 --> 24:13.550]  Well, don't you have any kind of junk to give away?
[24:13.670 --> 24:14.330]  Well, yeah, we do.
[24:15.050 --> 24:17.850]  Actually, let me talk about that now since it's already 27 minutes.
[24:18.010 --> 24:19.930]  Boy, the time is flying into this time.
[24:20.110 --> 24:22.350]  We have guests lined up that want to speak to us.
[24:23.150 --> 24:24.590]  212-209-2950.
[24:24.590 --> 24:25.750]  We have two calls on the line.
[24:25.790 --> 24:29.390]  Now, we have, I believe, three pledge levels.
[24:30.150 --> 24:30.870]  Now, let's...
[24:30.870 --> 24:37.330]  And if I'm wrong about this, someone from Tally, please come charging in here and correct me, but I believe this is what we have for...
[24:37.930 --> 24:40.470]  We'll start from the high pledges and go down.
[24:40.550 --> 24:42.670]  Of course, you can go higher than the high pledges.
[24:42.670 --> 24:44.310]  There's no limit to how high you can go.
[24:44.770 --> 24:46.550]  We deliberately make that the case.
[24:46.690 --> 24:47.710]  We don't set limits here.
[24:47.890 --> 24:49.830]  You need fancy names for them, though.
[24:50.010 --> 24:51.330]  Do you have, like, platinum, gold...
[24:51.330 --> 24:52.410]  Well, you're a commercial radio.
[24:52.530 --> 24:53.370]  You can put them with a fancy name.
[24:53.410 --> 24:54.150]  Well, no, here's my recommendation.
[24:54.170 --> 24:55.110]  I'm just going to give you the practical stuff.
[24:55.110 --> 24:57.690]  No, if you give it the Bernie S level, then you...
[24:58.310 --> 25:02.310]  If you give it the Bernie S level, you're going to get a black eye and, like, you know, crutches for years.
[25:02.850 --> 25:06.550]  But if you give it the Mitnick level, then you get a signed trash can leg.
[25:06.670 --> 25:07.670]  You get long imprisonment.
[25:07.790 --> 25:08.390]  Yeah, yeah.
[25:08.790 --> 25:09.830]  Which is the higher level?
[25:09.830 --> 25:11.610]  Which, uh, basically...
[25:11.610 --> 25:11.630]  Mitnick.
[25:12.010 --> 25:17.270]  Basically is, um, uh, $200 is the high level right now.
[25:17.450 --> 25:21.470]  And that gets you all of the back issues of 2600.
[25:21.670 --> 25:24.010]  Now, 2600 has been coming out for quite some time.
[25:24.150 --> 25:26.390]  It's really kind of scary how long we've been coming out for.
[25:26.770 --> 25:29.130]  In case you don't know, it's the Hacker Quarterly.
[25:29.210 --> 25:32.610]  We've been coming out since, um, um, since 1984.
[25:33.610 --> 25:38.390]  And we are giving away every single issue we put out from 1984 through the year 2000.
[25:38.790 --> 25:40.390]  Do you just have these sitting around your crib?
[25:40.390 --> 25:41.110]  What's the story with that?
[25:41.110 --> 25:42.230]  We have a warehouse, actually.
[25:42.530 --> 25:43.070]  A warehouse.
[25:43.390 --> 25:43.810]  We actually do have a warehouse.
[25:43.810 --> 25:44.810]  It's called Easy Storage.
[25:45.130 --> 25:46.910]  Well, whatever you might want to define it as.
[25:47.030 --> 25:47.130]  Sag Park or something.
[25:47.150 --> 25:49.710]  It's, it's, it's, um, it's a, it's a big space.
[25:49.710 --> 25:50.990]  Because you need a lot of space for all these.
[25:51.070 --> 25:51.950]  I mean, there's a lot of issues.
[25:52.090 --> 25:53.150]  It's really piling up.
[25:53.290 --> 25:55.890]  Okay, so you, so you get every issue that's ever been printed.
[25:56.290 --> 25:56.610]  Right.
[25:57.050 --> 26:01.810]  And, uh, that's, that's, um, if you average that out, I think we sell them for $20 a year.
[26:01.970 --> 26:04.830]  So multiply that by 17, which is how many years it's been going out for.
[26:04.950 --> 26:06.150]  And, uh, you're the math wizard.
[26:06.290 --> 26:06.750]  Figure it out.
[26:06.870 --> 26:07.770]  It's, uh, $340.
[26:08.690 --> 26:09.050]  All right.
[26:09.130 --> 26:10.570]  So, uh, we're offering that for $200.
[26:10.810 --> 26:11.530]  So it's a good deal.
[26:11.690 --> 26:12.730]  You know, you can't get it for less.
[26:12.730 --> 26:14.390]  But, uh, that's not the reason you should call.
[26:14.490 --> 26:17.310]  You should call because you want to support this place and keep us going.
[26:17.810 --> 26:19.570]  And, uh, keep the radio station here.
[26:19.890 --> 26:20.910]  Keep this show on the air.
[26:21.170 --> 26:23.350]  And this is what we have to do because we don't have commercials.
[26:23.350 --> 26:24.890]  Now, there's another level.
[26:25.250 --> 26:27.110]  That's the, uh, $100 level.
[26:27.650 --> 26:32.290]  Uh, which is every, um, it's, it's called the 2600, uh, clothing line.
[26:32.410 --> 26:33.090]  I guess you can call it that.
[26:33.290 --> 26:33.970]  The 2600 clothing.
[26:33.970 --> 26:34.330]  The word.
[26:34.550 --> 26:34.990]  The clothing line, yes.
[26:35.730 --> 26:37.870]  Uh, and basically we have, uh, several shirts.
[26:38.110 --> 26:42.710]  We have, um, the, uh, the Forteza, um, encryption, um, um, shirt.
[26:42.830 --> 26:46.230]  We have the, uh, blue box diagram shirt, which is a blue box.
[26:46.530 --> 26:54.090]  Uh, we have the Motion Picture Association of America lawsuit shirt, which normally we sell as a fundraiser, but we're, we're donating it ourselves this time.
[26:54.490 --> 27:00.230]  Uh, we even have these special limited edition white shirts that we have too many of from, uh, 1997.
[27:01.170 --> 27:01.630]  White shirts.
[27:01.830 --> 27:04.390]  Well, apparently people don't like white shirts, but we're going to throw that in anyway.
[27:04.830 --> 27:05.610]  No, people like white shirts.
[27:05.670 --> 27:06.930]  Well, you're getting it no matter what.
[27:07.050 --> 27:07.850]  What is a white shirt?
[27:08.070 --> 27:14.010]  Uh, it's, well, it's a white 2600 shirt with kind of the, the history of 2600 from, from 1984 to 1997.
[27:14.150 --> 27:15.730]  So we have some of those leftover.
[27:15.730 --> 27:17.150]  We also have two hats.
[27:17.330 --> 27:19.470]  We have the 2600 hat and the H2K hat.
[27:19.690 --> 27:20.730]  What about H2K t-shirts?
[27:20.730 --> 27:21.610]  And H2K shirts.
[27:21.710 --> 27:21.990]  I'm sorry.
[27:22.030 --> 27:22.530]  I forgot those.
[27:22.610 --> 27:23.350]  So how many shirts is that?
[27:23.410 --> 27:26.330]  That's something like five shirts and two hats for, for a total of a hundred dollars.
[27:26.470 --> 27:27.630]  I mean, that's, that's a good deal too.
[27:28.310 --> 27:30.870]  Uh, so, um, 212, 209, 2950.
[27:31.310 --> 27:32.830]  So you said 209, 2950.
[27:33.770 --> 27:33.890]  Right.
[27:33.890 --> 27:34.630]  I was going to say it's slower.
[27:34.870 --> 27:35.230]  I'm sorry.
[27:35.410 --> 27:36.690]  I'm trying to fit it all in.
[27:36.810 --> 27:38.010]  There's just so much to, uh...
[27:38.010 --> 27:38.670]  Dude, this is terrible.
[27:38.710 --> 27:39.910]  We've only got a hundred dollars.
[27:41.050 --> 27:42.690]  Well, we also have three calls.
[27:42.870 --> 27:44.150]  We also have three calls in the line.
[27:45.230 --> 27:47.750]  Now, we also have one other, uh, level.
[27:48.110 --> 27:50.590]  And this is going to be included in the $100 level as well.
[27:50.610 --> 27:52.210]  All right, so, so far we have the Bernie S level, the Fiverr.
[27:52.990 --> 27:53.210]  All right.
[27:53.330 --> 27:53.790]  Actually, you know what?
[27:53.790 --> 27:55.330]  It's going to be included in the $200 level as well.
[27:55.470 --> 27:55.510]  Okay.
[27:55.510 --> 27:59.190]  But basically, it's the new t-shirt, which has not yet been designed.
[27:59.810 --> 28:02.770]  But we'll be coming out probably in about, what do you think, a month or so?
[28:02.850 --> 28:03.490]  I would say a month.
[28:03.530 --> 28:04.030]  A month or so.
[28:04.170 --> 28:06.250]  We have no idea what's going to be on this shirt.
[28:06.410 --> 28:10.130]  But you can be one of the, one of the people to be first in line to get it.
[28:10.610 --> 28:14.510]  If you pledge any of these pledges, we'll be including that.
[28:14.670 --> 28:16.210]  So 212-209-2950.
[28:16.330 --> 28:18.250]  $50 pledge, $100 pledge, $200 pledge.
[28:18.450 --> 28:19.790]  And you can keep going from there.
[28:20.390 --> 28:22.090]  How do you not go completely broke?
[28:22.210 --> 28:24.850]  Because you're always giving away all this junk when we do fundraisers.
[28:24.850 --> 28:25.650]  It's weird.
[28:25.830 --> 28:28.910]  You know, a lot of people say that we should be going completely broke.
[28:29.090 --> 28:37.830]  A lot of people say that we can't possibly afford the things that we do, like have conferences in the middle of New York City, be sued by major corporations, and do all kinds of other things.
[28:37.910 --> 28:43.750]  Print the magazine and just a lot of the projects we're involved in making films.
[28:44.890 --> 28:45.490]  I don't know.
[28:45.610 --> 28:47.270]  I don't know how we stay in business, but we do.
[28:47.550 --> 28:50.730]  Well, I'm glad you're doing it because I got bigger issues like vinyl siding.
[28:50.990 --> 28:51.730]  Yeah, yeah.
[28:51.870 --> 28:53.490]  Well, I don't get vinyl siding for one thing.
[28:53.490 --> 28:54.370]  Maybe that's it.
[28:55.410 --> 29:00.510]  But the point is, if you have a will to survive, you're going to survive one way or another.
[29:00.690 --> 29:01.930]  That's what keeps this place going.
[29:02.050 --> 29:06.690]  That's what keeps the radio station on the air since 1960, is the will to survive.
[29:06.690 --> 29:09.530]  If you asked the average person, could such a place exist?
[29:09.690 --> 29:10.850]  The answer would be no.
[29:11.830 --> 29:13.490]  But somehow we do it.
[29:13.630 --> 29:14.990]  Somehow we stay on the air.
[29:15.150 --> 29:16.170]  Somehow we keep publishing.
[29:16.510 --> 29:19.430]  Somehow we fight these lawsuits against these mega corporations.
[29:20.090 --> 29:22.910]  It's all part of the same spirit, and it comes from support.
[29:22.910 --> 29:27.090]  We asked people to help support us in the lawsuit.
[29:27.330 --> 29:29.330]  We stuck something up on our internet store.
[29:30.570 --> 29:37.930]  And basically giving people the opportunity to just donate money to go towards the legal fees, which we're carrying this time.
[29:38.090 --> 29:44.310]  The Electronic Frontier Foundation, while they're behind us in this fight, they're kind of tapped out by the MPAA lawsuit.
[29:44.310 --> 29:45.750]  Oh, they didn't help on the Ford thing?
[29:46.030 --> 29:46.990]  Well, they couldn't.
[29:47.210 --> 29:47.590]  Right.
[29:47.970 --> 29:49.570]  And I totally understand why.
[29:50.010 --> 29:56.910]  I'd feel bad if we kept taking money from these civil liberties groups, and they were going bankrupt because of us.
[29:57.130 --> 30:01.250]  This one we kind of have to fight on our own, financially anyway.
[30:01.330 --> 30:02.090]  We have the support of all kinds of people.
[30:02.090 --> 30:03.370]  That's got to be costing a lot of bread.
[30:03.530 --> 30:04.290]  It is, it is.
[30:04.350 --> 30:07.570]  So we put something up on the internet store asking for people to help out.
[30:07.570 --> 30:12.390]  Within one day, we raised one-twentieth of the total legal cost in one day.
[30:12.970 --> 30:13.950]  That is something.
[30:14.450 --> 30:15.250]  That is amazing.
[30:15.890 --> 30:18.150]  So we are going to make it through this one way or another.
[30:18.290 --> 30:19.930]  Even if we lose, we're going to make it through this.
[30:20.070 --> 30:20.550]  I know that.
[30:21.250 --> 30:26.090]  Anyway, let me tell you more about the case, because that's really what I wanted to talk about when I was talking about the caravan.
[30:26.370 --> 30:28.570]  And again, the number is 212-209-2950.
[30:28.710 --> 30:30.050]  Please, let's see those calls keep coming in.
[30:30.130 --> 30:32.070]  We see two on the line, and hopefully...
[30:32.070 --> 30:33.610]  Yeah, but this number keeps sitting at 100.
[30:33.610 --> 30:34.810]  I'm getting extremely depressed.
[30:35.090 --> 30:35.570]  Yeah, yeah.
[30:35.710 --> 30:37.050]  Oh, let's just sell the station.
[30:37.050 --> 30:38.010]  Don't depress us.
[30:39.050 --> 30:41.630]  Anyway, so the hearing was in Detroit on Friday.
[30:43.890 --> 30:47.770]  And basically, I'm not good at these things.
[30:47.890 --> 30:50.910]  I don't really like courtrooms.
[30:51.010 --> 30:52.070]  I've been in a lot of them recently.
[30:52.070 --> 30:53.510]  I've been there for Shapeshifter.
[30:53.610 --> 30:54.690]  I've been there for the MPAA.
[30:54.850 --> 30:57.890]  I've been there for all kinds of things lately.
[30:57.890 --> 31:00.290]  It's been one big legal battle.
[31:01.230 --> 31:03.730]  And this one was the weirdest of them all.
[31:03.730 --> 31:12.190]  Because imagine being dragged into court in Detroit, of all places, because you have a domain name with a four-letter word in it that someone doesn't like where you're pointing it.
[31:12.890 --> 31:15.450]  Now, we had a lot of people show up in the courtroom.
[31:15.530 --> 31:17.270]  In fact, the courtroom was filled with...
[31:17.270 --> 31:19.090]  I imagine they were all our supporters.
[31:19.430 --> 31:20.910]  They looked like our supporters.
[31:20.910 --> 31:22.830]  And we hung out with a few of them afterwards.
[31:24.690 --> 31:38.850]  And it was just a really kind of surreal situation where we were trying to explain that having this website did not in any way imply that Ford was voicing the sentiments of what the General Motors site was saying.
[31:40.910 --> 31:43.430]  So Ford was there on their side.
[31:43.590 --> 31:46.270]  And it was... I had a tough time keeping a straight face.
[31:46.390 --> 31:47.910]  That's how crazy their argument was.
[31:47.910 --> 32:02.810]  You know, basically saying that there are people all over the place being confused, somehow typing four-letter word GeneralMotors.com on their own and then taking offense when it goes to Ford and thinking that Ford did this and that they're behind it.
[32:02.890 --> 32:09.890]  First of all, the very idea that corporate America would engage in such practices against their competitors really seems kind of strange to me.
[32:10.070 --> 32:12.130]  You know, I couldn't imagine that myself.
[32:13.150 --> 32:15.230]  But see, that town doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
[32:15.230 --> 32:16.510]  Well, I'm going to get into that too.
[32:16.750 --> 32:18.310]  That town does not make a whole lot of sense.
[32:18.830 --> 32:23.630]  There's like five blue-collar rock stations in that town and they're all playing like Sammy Hagar.
[32:24.030 --> 32:28.370]  And the number one, one of the number one morning show, do you know who it's hosted by?
[32:28.710 --> 32:29.910]  Probably Howard Stern, right?
[32:30.090 --> 32:31.230]  The Nuge, baby.
[32:32.010 --> 32:32.630]  Ted Nugent.
[32:32.790 --> 32:33.210]  Oh boy.
[32:33.990 --> 32:38.750]  Okay, well again, I'm going to get into the town in just a second because I've got some things to say about that.
[32:41.150 --> 32:44.430]  But basically, we presented our case, each side.
[32:46.150 --> 32:48.530]  And I think we did a really, really good job.
[32:48.690 --> 32:53.930]  I mean, it was great to have a lawyer on our side that understood the technology and was able to just get right to the heart of the matter.
[32:55.410 --> 33:05.410]  And I think the judge, you know, I might be wrong in this, but I think the judge was actually listening, asking the right questions and wanting to make a fair decision.
[33:05.410 --> 33:15.310]  Despite the fact that this is a Detroit judge in the land of the auto that basically was, you know, was there because Ford, you know, filed this lawsuit.
[33:15.490 --> 33:20.130]  Should have been done in New York because we have, you know, no business in Detroit to start with.
[33:20.230 --> 33:21.710]  But because they're there, we had to go there.
[33:22.830 --> 33:26.770]  It was significant that the ruling was not issued right then on the spot.
[33:26.910 --> 33:30.510]  The injunction could have been issued that would have forced us to not link anymore.
[33:31.550 --> 33:32.830]  And that would have been it.
[33:33.450 --> 33:34.410]  But that didn't happen.
[33:34.410 --> 33:36.350]  He took it under advisement.
[33:36.630 --> 33:38.910]  And two days later, Monday and Tuesday have gone by.
[33:39.050 --> 33:44.650]  There's still no ruling, no judgment that we have to not link there.
[33:46.370 --> 33:47.430]  So we'll see how it goes.
[33:47.730 --> 33:50.770]  I think it was very significant, interesting case.
[33:50.910 --> 33:53.790]  I know a lot of people don't see the significance in the case.
[33:53.930 --> 33:56.470]  And, you know, there's not much I can say to those people.
[33:56.650 --> 34:00.390]  But just because there's a four letter word in it does not mean it's not speech.
[34:00.610 --> 34:03.470]  Yeah, people see it as kind of like a silly prankster thing.
[34:03.470 --> 34:05.730]  I mean, there's a bigger issue here.
[34:05.910 --> 34:07.670]  Yeah, there's a much bigger issue here.
[34:07.870 --> 34:13.270]  It's not being able to say certain things on the net because the corporation doesn't approve.
[34:13.270 --> 34:18.390]  The first speech that will be attacked is the speech that people find offensive.
[34:18.970 --> 34:21.550]  And then after that, it's the ideas people find offensive.
[34:21.730 --> 34:26.050]  Then the speech and the ideas that isn't so offensive, you know, except maybe to a few people.
[34:26.770 --> 34:28.390]  And, you know, it just goes on from there.
[34:28.390 --> 34:34.770]  So, yeah, this is something that we have to fight even if we don't agree with the sentiment and even if we find the sentiment somewhat repulsive.
[34:35.010 --> 34:38.690]  You know, I did not want to even utter the word in court.
[34:38.850 --> 34:40.130]  Unfortunately, we didn't have to.
[34:40.330 --> 34:42.870]  It was, you know, a rather uncomfortable thing.
[34:43.090 --> 34:44.890]  Keep in mind, we did not publicize this at all.
[34:44.970 --> 34:48.870]  We didn't seek out advertising for this site in the first place.
[34:49.130 --> 34:51.150]  It was kind of forced upon us.
[34:51.310 --> 34:52.190]  Did you wear a suit?
[34:52.710 --> 34:53.170]  All right.
[34:53.270 --> 34:57.050]  Well, since you brought that up, I was told that I had to wear a suit.
[34:57.550 --> 34:58.030]  So I...
[34:58.030 --> 34:58.950]  By your lawyer?
[34:59.130 --> 34:59.330]  Yeah.
[35:00.210 --> 35:02.510]  Unfortunately, I was kind of coerced into doing that.
[35:02.650 --> 35:03.830]  No, the MPAA case.
[35:03.850 --> 35:04.670]  Did you wear a suit then?
[35:04.770 --> 35:05.310]  No, I didn't.
[35:05.610 --> 35:06.170]  I didn't.
[35:06.270 --> 35:06.650]  Why not?
[35:06.670 --> 35:09.570]  Because you're not going to conform to the man or what's the...
[35:09.570 --> 35:10.510]  Because they're not comfortable.
[35:10.630 --> 35:11.690]  Have you ever worn one of these things?
[35:11.730 --> 35:12.070]  I know.
[35:12.250 --> 35:13.490]  My girly made me get one.
[35:13.650 --> 35:13.950]  With a necktie.
[35:13.950 --> 35:14.130]  With a necktie.
[35:14.410 --> 35:16.910]  And shoes that, like, make all your toes go together.
[35:17.090 --> 35:17.410]  It's...
[35:17.410 --> 35:18.070]  It's really...
[35:18.070 --> 35:18.670]  It's really uncomfortable.
[35:18.670 --> 35:19.130]  It's really uncomfortable.
[35:19.550 --> 35:20.130]  Really uncomfortable.
[35:21.310 --> 35:22.030]  So, yeah, I did.
[35:22.210 --> 35:22.390]  Just for this.
[35:22.410 --> 35:23.050]  Did you have to buy one?
[35:23.390 --> 35:26.030]  No, actually, my good friend Dave lent me one.
[35:26.170 --> 35:27.090]  He lent you a suit?
[35:27.130 --> 35:27.530]  Actually...
[35:27.530 --> 35:28.330]  Yeah, we brought it up there.
[35:28.410 --> 35:33.830]  We brought this suit in the van all the way up there and got me dressed up Friday morning and we actually...
[35:33.830 --> 35:35.410]  Did you go out courtin' afterwards?
[35:35.730 --> 35:36.570]  No, I...
[35:36.570 --> 35:39.370]  Actually, we went out visiting Ford afterwards.
[35:39.790 --> 35:40.030]  Really?
[35:40.150 --> 35:41.170]  In Dearborn.
[35:41.930 --> 35:43.510]  And that's where their headquarters are.
[35:43.830 --> 35:48.230]  Now, we found out later that there was a series of memos being issued.
[35:48.670 --> 35:51.370]  And hopefully somebody at Ford can forward these to us.
[35:52.230 --> 35:56.950]  That basically said that we understand that a bunch of hackers are going to be on the grounds.
[35:57.170 --> 35:59.930]  Now, they knew we were going to be on the grounds before we knew we were going to be on the grounds.
[36:00.170 --> 36:06.010]  And the weird thing was, we were driving the van all throughout these majestic grounds of Ford.
[36:06.310 --> 36:08.430]  I mean, you know, rolling fields and forests.
[36:08.810 --> 36:10.890]  And they have their own road system.
[36:10.990 --> 36:11.570]  They have roads.
[36:11.710 --> 36:14.070]  One of them is called the American Road.
[36:14.070 --> 36:15.250]  That's what it's called.
[36:15.390 --> 36:15.710]  Is it?
[36:16.010 --> 36:17.010]  Not American Road.
[36:17.270 --> 36:17.710]  The American Road.
[36:17.710 --> 36:19.750]  Is it littered with the debris of the Constitution?
[36:20.030 --> 36:20.490]  No, no.
[36:21.010 --> 36:21.330]  Oh, sorry.
[36:21.490 --> 36:22.950]  It's completely clean.
[36:22.970 --> 36:24.090]  Hey, look, we're at $350.
[36:24.530 --> 36:24.790]  All right.
[36:24.830 --> 36:26.210]  We have to do a lot better than that, though.
[36:26.290 --> 36:26.970]  We have three calls on the line.
[36:26.970 --> 36:30.410]  The phone number is 212-209-2950.
[36:30.590 --> 36:33.630]  If we don't get $1,000, we're selling the station to Clear Channel.
[36:33.630 --> 36:35.350]  Well, we can't do that, we can't issue that.
[36:35.470 --> 36:38.190]  I can, well, wait till you-, wait till I read this Clear Channel.
[36:38.190 --> 36:39.150]  See, Laszlo, that's a threat.
[36:39.330 --> 36:40.270]  We don't threaten our listeners.
[36:40.470 --> 36:40.610]  Oh, okay.
[36:40.770 --> 36:49.370]  In fact, I also wanna point out to the listeners, and I, I mentioned in passing that I know a lot of people are having trouble, uh, pledging this pledge drive, and I-I completely understand it.
[36:49.790 --> 36:55.370]  Uh, at nine o'clock, uh, we run for three hours tonight, at nine o'clock, we're gonna have a special report from the listeners.
[36:55.990 --> 36:57.670]  Where you'll be welcome to call us.
[36:57.810 --> 36:58.610]  Tell us how we're doing.
[36:58.770 --> 37:02.090]  Tell us how we're doing as a radio station, how we're doing as a radio show.
[37:02.090 --> 37:07.490]  So, how we're doing as the human race, whatever it is that you have on your mind, you'll be able to call up at 9 o'clock.
[37:07.630 --> 37:09.470]  That's when we'll open up the phones, report from the listeners.
[37:09.690 --> 37:11.550]  Okay, so you're on the American road.
[37:12.510 --> 37:14.750]  And they had another road called Card Access Road.
[37:14.970 --> 37:15.570]  Do not enter.
[37:15.790 --> 37:16.810]  Card Access Road?
[37:17.270 --> 37:18.530]  It was unbelievable.
[37:18.570 --> 37:20.390]  This place is just one big corporate hell.
[37:20.910 --> 37:26.230]  So, we're driving around for a good half hour, taking all kinds of pictures and things, and nobody's bothering us.
[37:26.490 --> 37:28.430]  You know, I'm thinking maybe we slipped over the border to Canada.
[37:28.570 --> 37:29.350]  No one's bothering us.
[37:29.370 --> 37:30.070]  Why is this?
[37:30.070 --> 37:41.790]  And then I found out about the memo, and I just imagined inside Ford, everybody who worked at Ford all gathered around in one big silent crowd looking out the window saying, What are they doing now?
[37:41.910 --> 37:42.850]  Are they coming for us?
[37:43.270 --> 37:43.510]  Right.
[37:43.750 --> 37:44.370]  Are they sending...
[37:44.370 --> 37:45.670]  Scared to death of the hackers, you know?
[37:45.670 --> 37:47.790]  Are they sending frequencies to shut our computers down?
[37:48.350 --> 37:48.750]  Unbelievable.
[37:49.210 --> 37:52.970]  So, as soon as I see those memos, I'll know how serious they took everything.
[37:53.510 --> 37:54.790]  212-209-2950.
[37:54.990 --> 37:55.810]  But, okay, here's the thing.
[37:56.510 --> 37:59.710]  We went to the Ford headquarters, and it was nice and plush.
[38:00.510 --> 38:08.950]  But, throughout the rest of the day or so we spent in Detroit, we drove around looking for various spots in Detroit that people told us to look at.
[38:09.530 --> 38:10.450]  Have you ever been to Detroit?
[38:10.950 --> 38:21.290]  I was at Detroit, and I went to go see some dead shows, the Grateful Dead, and the police raided the Red Roof Inn, which was full of deadheads, right?
[38:21.290 --> 38:27.430]  And there's all these deadheads on various substances or whatever, and they, like 15 people to a room.
[38:27.590 --> 38:38.170]  And the police, this is the mentality of the Detroit police, they raid these rooms and they say, If your name is not on the roster of the room, we want you to all get in your cars and drive around!
[38:39.990 --> 38:44.090]  That seems to be the theme of Detroit, is drive around.
[38:44.250 --> 38:45.310]  But here's the thing.
[38:45.590 --> 38:51.990]  Everybody from Detroit, the people who showed up at the trial, at the hearing, told me the same thing.
[38:52.250 --> 38:56.490]  They said that the mass transit in this city was destroyed by the auto industry.
[38:56.850 --> 38:58.230]  Completely destroyed, ripped up.
[38:58.230 --> 39:00.610]  They paid for it to be taken away.
[39:01.110 --> 39:05.290]  And now, what you have in Detroit is a broken city.
[39:05.470 --> 39:09.170]  It's a city where you can't get from point A to point B.
[39:10.190 --> 39:17.430]  A city where so many people have moved out that it doesn't even technically qualify as a city anymore.
[39:17.590 --> 39:19.210]  How do you not qualify as a city?
[39:19.350 --> 39:23.730]  Apparently, if you're below a million people, you're not considered a major U.S.
[39:23.750 --> 39:23.930]  city.
[39:23.990 --> 39:27.490]  It's amazing what happens when you shut factories down and send them to Mexico.
[39:27.490 --> 39:30.770]  I have never seen such devastation anywhere.
[39:31.390 --> 39:36.490]  And just driving through this town makes you think like some sort of war has happened.
[39:36.730 --> 39:43.310]  Like you're in some really backwards country where there is just no technology, no help, no nothing.
[39:44.110 --> 39:47.790]  And I tell you, it was one of the saddest things I've ever seen.
[39:47.790 --> 39:51.850]  Just looking at the complete devastation that just... it didn't stop.
[39:52.090 --> 39:52.490]  It didn't stop.
[39:52.570 --> 39:56.050]  You just were driving and driving and driving and the roads are in horrible shape.
[39:56.050 --> 39:57.390]  It's like they're unpaved completely.
[39:57.930 --> 39:59.310]  And very, very wide.
[39:59.510 --> 40:00.790]  Huge, wide streets.
[40:01.150 --> 40:02.010]  But nothing.
[40:02.270 --> 40:02.990]  No stores.
[40:03.290 --> 40:03.970]  No houses.
[40:04.130 --> 40:05.350]  Just burnt out shells.
[40:05.930 --> 40:08.330]  This is not just one little section of the town.
[40:08.450 --> 40:09.810]  This is most of the town.
[40:10.470 --> 40:14.970]  I always wondered, why wasn't there a 2600 meeting in Detroit?
[40:14.990 --> 40:16.430]  Why was there only one in Ann Arbor?
[40:16.490 --> 40:17.210]  Now I know.
[40:17.770 --> 40:18.810]  There are no people.
[40:19.310 --> 40:20.330]  There's no people.
[40:21.530 --> 40:22.630]  And there's not enough people.
[40:22.690 --> 40:23.590]  And there's no way to get around.
[40:23.590 --> 40:25.570]  They have this little ridiculous thing called the people mover.
[40:25.750 --> 40:27.370]  A little two-car thing that goes back and forth.
[40:27.570 --> 40:28.790]  There's never any people on it.
[40:29.610 --> 40:31.510]  The people don't exist to go any place.
[40:31.570 --> 40:33.210]  And there's no place to go once they do exist.
[40:33.450 --> 40:39.810]  But what's important is that cars are being made cheaply and sold cheaply at an inexpensive rate to the American public.
[40:40.610 --> 40:42.330]  And stockholders are making a lot of money.
[40:42.470 --> 40:50.470]  If nothing else, what came out of all this was that I got to go to Detroit at the invitation of the auto industry.
[40:51.050 --> 40:52.550]  And I got to see just...
[40:52.550 --> 40:53.450]  What they've done to America?
[40:53.530 --> 40:54.610]  What the auto industry has done.
[40:55.170 --> 40:58.350]  And I got to tell you, it made me angry seeing this.
[40:59.050 --> 41:04.650]  I mean, if you come out of Detroit, you really have, you know, come out of something.
[41:04.650 --> 41:12.010]  You know, I have a lot of respect for someone who can survive that and accomplish something.
[41:12.290 --> 41:13.450]  You know, make something of themselves.
[41:13.850 --> 41:15.310]  You know, go on to something better.
[41:15.430 --> 41:18.210]  But I was imagining, what would happen if, you know, if I lived in that town?
[41:18.210 --> 41:20.270]  If that's how I got my start in life?
[41:20.550 --> 41:24.090]  It would be really easy to just completely give up on everything.
[41:24.250 --> 41:29.750]  You know, I even said at one point, if someone commits a horrible crime someplace, you know, blows up a building.
[41:29.750 --> 41:33.570]  Or commits a terrorist act, or just becomes a mass murderer.
[41:34.330 --> 41:36.290]  If they come from Detroit, they should get a pass.
[41:37.470 --> 41:38.630]  That's my view on it.
[41:38.850 --> 41:40.370]  See, dude, I come from Oklahoma.
[41:40.670 --> 41:40.910]  Uh-huh.
[41:41.010 --> 41:42.710]  I think it may be worse there.
[41:43.270 --> 41:43.870]  In Oklahoma?
[41:44.110 --> 41:44.390]  Maybe.
[41:44.590 --> 41:45.050]  I don't know.
[41:45.270 --> 41:45.830]  I don't know.
[41:46.050 --> 41:48.970]  The point is, when I got back to New York, I was so happy to see all the life.
[41:49.030 --> 41:50.750]  It was 4 o'clock in the morning when we pulled into town.
[41:51.210 --> 41:52.670]  And, you know, things were hopping.
[41:52.830 --> 41:53.610]  Things were always hopping.
[41:53.810 --> 42:00.250]  So, I don't in any way mean this as a put down for the people in Detroit, because I have a lot of respect for them, just for surviving.
[42:00.770 --> 42:08.150]  But, man, I gotta tell you, I'm really upset and annoyed at what has happened and where it's gone.
[42:08.310 --> 42:09.550]  Can I talk about radio yet?
[42:10.070 --> 42:11.310]  We have two more hours.
[42:11.670 --> 42:12.470]  Come on, dude.
[42:13.450 --> 42:14.310]  Two more hours.
[42:14.370 --> 42:20.010]  I've been to the show for 45 minutes, and so far, the theme has been Canada's really great, and Detroit sucks.
[42:20.210 --> 42:20.470]  Yeah.
[42:21.670 --> 42:26.390]  We ain't raising money listening to Emanuel's list of vacation spots.
[42:27.950 --> 42:29.270]  212-209-2950.
[42:29.450 --> 42:30.610]  Yeah, vacation, that's the word.
[42:31.290 --> 42:39.790]  We'll be back in a couple of minutes with a special guest who also is a victim of the auto industry in a completely different way.
[42:41.010 --> 42:41.870]  This is Off the Hook.
[42:42.050 --> 42:42.570]  Stay tuned.
[42:46.540 --> 42:47.980]  This time,
[42:52.050 --> 42:57.850]  all the clubs have been closed down.
[42:59.690 --> 43:04.510]  This place is coming like a ghost town.
[43:07.810 --> 43:10.810]  This won't play no more.
[43:11.110 --> 43:13.370]  What's fighting on the dance floor?
[43:45.860 --> 43:50.480]  Do you remember the good old days before the ghost town?
[43:51.000 --> 43:56.890]  The music club in Adi Boon Town.
[44:25.180 --> 44:29.600]  This town is coming like a ghost town.
[44:29.800 --> 44:32.240]  Why must the youth fight against themselves?
[44:36.020 --> 44:38.620]  Government leaving the news on the show.
[44:38.620 --> 44:42.680]  This place is coming like a ghost town.
[44:42.760 --> 44:44.700]  No chance to be found in this country.
[44:45.820 --> 44:49.120]  Can't go on no more.
[44:49.900 --> 44:51.740]  People getting hungry.
[45:18.160 --> 45:22.420]  This town is coming like a ghost town.
[45:24.810 --> 45:29.000]  This town is coming like a ghost town.
[45:31.430 --> 45:35.600]  This town is coming like a ghost town.
[45:38.020 --> 45:42.220]  This town is coming like a ghost town.
[45:45.690 --> 45:50.230]  And Ghost Town is a mild way of describing Detroit, that's for sure.
[45:51.350 --> 46:00.790]  We need to remind people that if you give at the Kevin Mitnick level $200, you get every copy of 2600 ever printed on the face of planet Earth.
[46:01.070 --> 46:04.050]  And at the $100 level, do I have this right?
[46:04.050 --> 46:07.590]  At the Bernie S level, the $100 level, you get every t-shirt.
[46:08.390 --> 46:09.010]  And hat.
[46:09.190 --> 46:09.530]  And hat.
[46:09.570 --> 46:10.210]  And hat, both.
[46:10.450 --> 46:14.710]  And all you need to do is call 212-209-2950.
[46:16.250 --> 46:16.950]  Call it now.
[46:17.050 --> 46:18.130]  There's one call on the line.
[46:18.130 --> 46:20.730]  And we're stuck at $550.
[46:21.190 --> 46:24.310]  We want to make several thousand tonight to justify our existence.
[46:24.650 --> 46:29.510]  Do you know how much commercials are going for on a big station up in Boston now?
[46:29.650 --> 46:30.090]  A lot.
[46:30.350 --> 46:33.130]  $6,000 for a 60-second spot.
[46:33.470 --> 46:34.830]  And you know, it doesn't even work.
[46:35.150 --> 46:36.690]  Advertising does not work.
[46:37.150 --> 46:37.990]  Yes, it does.
[46:38.010 --> 46:39.170]  I love McDonald's.
[46:39.390 --> 46:40.430]  Advertising sucks.
[46:41.810 --> 46:44.710]  Fortunately, we don't have advertising here on this radio station.
[46:44.890 --> 46:46.890]  And you can even say advertising sucks.
[46:46.970 --> 46:47.890]  You can say Ford sucks.
[46:47.890 --> 46:49.130]  You can say General Motors sucks.
[46:49.190 --> 46:54.510]  You can say all kinds of things suck that you can't say on commercial radio because they're not paying for this radio station.
[46:54.670 --> 46:57.230]  212-209-2950.
[46:57.630 --> 46:58.810]  You're paying for this radio station.
[46:58.910 --> 47:01.110]  The listeners of this radio station are what's paying for us.
[47:01.270 --> 47:04.590]  If you give it to Isaac level, $10, he'll give you a call at home.
[47:05.650 --> 47:07.050]  Isaac's going to be stepping in in just a moment.
[47:07.170 --> 47:08.050]  He'll have a word to say to you.
[47:09.570 --> 47:17.650]  But in any event, we have the $75 pledge as well, which will get you the new mystery shirt of 2600, which has not yet been designed, but will be.
[47:18.670 --> 47:20.530]  212-209-2950.
[47:20.730 --> 47:23.150]  And again, you can say whatever you want.
[47:23.450 --> 47:30.230]  You can say what sucks and what does not suck at 9 o'clock when we open up the phones, which is going to be hard because the phones aren't lighting.
[47:30.770 --> 47:31.890]  Physically, they're not lighting.
[47:31.990 --> 47:35.410]  The lights are broken on the call-in line.
[47:35.410 --> 47:39.650]  So, we're going to have to somehow figure that out.
[47:40.310 --> 47:42.330]  With us on the phone today...
[47:42.850 --> 47:44.250]  Yeah, we have one call on the line.
[47:44.470 --> 47:46.030]  Let's make that more than one call.
[47:46.850 --> 47:48.430]  212-209-2950.
[47:48.670 --> 47:51.530]  Who doesn't want every 2600 t-shirt for $100?
[47:52.170 --> 47:52.370]  Yeah.
[47:52.490 --> 47:56.550]  How much do you spend on liquor or beef jerky?
[47:56.730 --> 47:58.030]  I bet it's a lot of money.
[47:58.710 --> 47:59.350]  Welcome.
[48:00.570 --> 48:05.790]  Joining us on the phone from the great state of Michigan is Dan Morgan.
[48:06.090 --> 48:06.810]  Dan, are you there?
[48:07.170 --> 48:08.290]  Welcome to Detroit.
[48:11.110 --> 48:13.850]  175 miles north of Detroit, to be exact.
[48:14.290 --> 48:15.090]  Do you hear the nudge?
[48:15.950 --> 48:16.590]  Oh, yeah.
[48:16.950 --> 48:18.810]  Well, I don't listen to him very much.
[48:19.050 --> 48:20.150]  I know him personally.
[48:20.290 --> 48:22.170]  I met him at a deer hunting camp and his son.
[48:22.930 --> 48:25.350]  The guy had such a bad attitude, it was incredible.
[48:25.410 --> 48:27.670]  So, I just kind of ignored him the rest of the time I was there.
[48:27.750 --> 48:28.770]  Have you seen his catalog?
[48:29.010 --> 48:30.730]  He has a catalog, and I...
[48:30.730 --> 48:31.970]  Oh, hunting supplies, yes.
[48:32.110 --> 48:34.070]  Fred Bear, I know all the whole gig there.
[48:34.150 --> 48:36.510]  I urge you to get one and look at it.
[48:36.570 --> 48:38.810]  It is the funniest thing I've ever seen.
[48:38.850 --> 48:40.650]  You know what's so funny is I've worked in Detroit...
[48:40.650 --> 48:42.650]  I worked in Detroit Radio for about 10 years.
[48:43.430 --> 48:44.750]  And I've got to tell you something.
[48:44.750 --> 48:48.390]  Detroit Radio has changed so much since I was there.
[48:48.730 --> 48:49.390]  I don't even...
[48:49.390 --> 48:51.090]  Really, I don't even like to listen to it anymore.
[48:51.230 --> 48:52.910]  It's almost disappointing.
[48:53.150 --> 48:54.970]  You have like five or six rock stations, don't you?
[48:55.030 --> 48:56.170]  I worked for most of them.
[48:56.370 --> 48:57.110]  Oh, did you?
[48:57.270 --> 49:01.530]  And then I worked in Canada for a while, back in the early 60 years at CKLW.
[49:01.970 --> 49:02.870]  Hey, I know that station.
[49:02.870 --> 49:03.890]  That's in London, Ontario.
[49:04.170 --> 49:10.170]  Well, it was actually right in Windsor on Ouellette Drive.
[49:10.190 --> 49:13.550]  That's where I used to have to commute every day from Detroit, back and forth.
[49:13.550 --> 49:16.950]  But, you know, all the guys at customs, they always waved and said, yes, I know you.
[49:17.210 --> 49:18.010]  You'll be back.
[49:18.870 --> 49:20.050]  Are you owned by Clear Channel?
[49:20.430 --> 49:20.790]  Pardon?
[49:20.930 --> 49:21.890]  Are you owned by Clear Channel?
[49:22.990 --> 49:24.210]  Were we at Clear Channel?
[49:24.290 --> 49:25.270]  We were at Clear Channel, yes.
[49:26.070 --> 49:27.610]  Well, the station that you're at now.
[49:27.810 --> 49:30.650]  Oh, I'm not working in radio right now at all.
[49:30.650 --> 49:33.330]  I am kind of hiding in the bush.
[49:33.670 --> 49:39.310]  Well, now, that's one of the reasons why we contacted you, to find out an update.
[49:39.530 --> 49:45.750]  Some people might remember that we had Dan on the show a couple of years ago, and you went head-to-head with General Motors.
[49:45.870 --> 49:48.490]  Do you want to tell us briefly what that was all about?
[49:48.650 --> 49:49.590]  Okay, sure, Emmanuel.
[49:49.590 --> 49:53.990]  I used to publish a magazine here a few years ago called the Satellite Watch News.
[49:54.910 --> 50:09.590]  Satellite Watch News was a satellite TV industry magazine that reported on all aspects of the satellite TV industry, everything from who was buying who, who was selling who, the new channels being launched, the new satellites being launched, right down to the nitty-gritty,
[50:09.690 --> 50:12.310]  the unspoken, which was satellite hacking.
[50:13.250 --> 50:28.050]  And satellite hacking has been around since the big dish, the 10-foot dishes that I'm sure a lot of you folks have seen in people's backyards, way before, way before the DirecTV system come out, the EchoStar system.
[50:28.870 --> 50:32.890]  And back during the early days, it was owed by a gentleman in Virginia.
[50:33.590 --> 50:37.210]  Well, I was a subscriber at the time, and the magazine was going to go away.
[50:37.330 --> 50:38.730]  Howard had had enough.
[50:38.730 --> 50:39.450]  He was tired.
[50:39.670 --> 50:41.190]  He wanted to do something different.
[50:41.190 --> 50:46.350]  And I just couldn't see this magazine go away, because it told not just one side of the story.
[50:46.490 --> 50:49.190]  It told everything about the satellite industry.
[50:49.450 --> 50:50.910]  There's two sides to every story.
[50:51.390 --> 50:56.690]  Much like the 2600 publication, they don't talk all about hacking.
[50:56.710 --> 50:57.930]  They talk about everything.
[50:58.210 --> 50:59.430]  They educate you.
[50:59.770 --> 51:02.970]  The magazine was very educational for me, being a satellite dealer.
[51:03.510 --> 51:07.310]  I really had no interest at the time of hacking.
[51:07.410 --> 51:09.930]  It's just that I liked to see the whole picture.
[51:11.190 --> 51:12.630]  So, I bought the magazine.
[51:12.690 --> 51:14.230]  I started publishing.
[51:15.090 --> 51:19.030]  Carried it on for many years before I was even sued.
[51:19.490 --> 51:20.670]  I was served.
[51:20.990 --> 51:26.390]  And finally, DirecTV come about.
[51:27.850 --> 51:29.350]  And they were hacked.
[51:29.550 --> 51:42.790]  But when they were hacked, DirecTV was in bed with an encryption system that was encrypt many years prior to them developing and launching their system here in the States.
[51:43.010 --> 51:44.270]  They were hacked in Europe.
[51:44.830 --> 51:47.650]  The encryption system was owned by NewsDatacom.
[51:47.770 --> 51:48.350]  It still is.
[51:48.450 --> 51:50.410]  They still buy from NewsDatacom.
[51:51.550 --> 51:52.710]  And it was totally hacked.
[51:52.770 --> 51:57.750]  So, they knew that they were going to be using an encryption system that was wide open in Europe.
[51:58.350 --> 52:02.490]  And here it was in the United States, and it wasn't a year, not even...
[52:02.490 --> 52:06.770]  I want to say it was seven months before it was being hacked here in the United States.
[52:07.070 --> 52:14.110]  So, they bought into something they knew well was hacked, and they operated it at their own expense.
[52:14.110 --> 52:21.150]  And, of course, the Europeans helped the Americans, and the Canadians, and bang, here you go, one fee, all free.
[52:23.270 --> 52:32.390]  Anyway, DirecTV decides to sue the only publication in the United States talking about this, and that was the Satellite Watch News.
[52:32.650 --> 52:34.930]  Now, DirecTV is owned by General Motors, correct?
[52:34.950 --> 52:35.510]  Yes, they are.
[52:36.550 --> 52:38.190]  So, tell us something about this lawsuit.
[52:38.830 --> 52:42.850]  Well, we'll begin kind of at the beginning.
[52:42.850 --> 52:49.310]  There's a lot of things I can't discuss because of certain reasons, but they filed a suit against us.
[52:49.510 --> 52:57.650]  There was many allegations that I was the head kingpin in the hacking arena, and I had nothing to do with this.
[52:57.970 --> 53:04.230]  They sued me for aiding and abetting, publishing information about the hack itself.
[53:05.150 --> 53:07.950]  And so they said I was aiding and abetting the hackers.
[53:11.770 --> 53:13.370]  They tried many things.
[53:13.550 --> 53:19.510]  The attorneys tried so many different things to make this suit a real big to-do.
[53:21.550 --> 53:23.110]  Ultimately, I did a video.
[53:23.530 --> 53:31.410]  I produced Pirate Video 9, and it talked very in-depth about the hack, even though it was a documentary.
[53:31.630 --> 53:40.730]  There was no step-by-step instructions on how to hack this, no step-by-step instructions, how to create source code or any of that stuff.
[53:40.730 --> 53:43.470]  It was just showing that the hack, in fact, was real.
[53:43.670 --> 53:44.710]  It did work.
[53:45.510 --> 53:46.770]  They got me on that.
[53:46.970 --> 53:49.630]  Some of the footage was shot in the United States.
[53:50.790 --> 53:51.950]  So they held that against me.
[53:52.030 --> 53:58.870]  Possession of a card in the United States, an illegal smart card, something that has been hacked.
[53:59.470 --> 54:02.690]  Possession, your possession, is a federal offense in the United States.
[54:02.810 --> 54:04.730]  But they got you showing that...
[54:04.730 --> 54:05.690]  Show and telling, yes.
[54:05.690 --> 54:06.690]  And that's a crime.
[54:07.010 --> 54:11.070]  That is a felony or a federal offense in the United States.
[54:11.450 --> 54:13.170]  For talking about how something works.
[54:13.430 --> 54:28.090]  Well, having possession of it, and since some of the portions were shown here in the United States or processed here in the United States, it was a crime just being there, holding the card, even though it was not my card, my smart card.
[54:28.510 --> 54:33.510]  The hack, just holding it, talking about it, was a federal offense.
[54:36.010 --> 54:38.670]  So what transpired during the lawsuit?
[54:39.310 --> 54:44.410]  Well, of course, you know, you go through all the depositions and everything pretty much probably like you're going through at the present time.
[54:44.510 --> 54:44.650]  Yep.
[54:46.270 --> 54:47.770]  And it gets nasty, folks.
[54:48.070 --> 54:48.910]  I'm going to tell you something.
[54:49.030 --> 54:50.670]  Emmanuel's in a big lawsuit right now.
[54:50.890 --> 54:51.610]  I was in a big...
[54:51.610 --> 54:53.410]  This is not fun.
[54:54.690 --> 55:00.490]  And it gets really nasty, and the things that transpire, I mean, they're brutal.
[55:01.090 --> 55:10.210]  If you folks have never been in a real large lawsuit like this against, you know, corporate America, believe me, it is your worst nightmare.
[55:11.150 --> 55:18.450]  And what transpired from this lawsuit was I lost the publication because I made a video.
[55:21.590 --> 55:27.070]  They got a $400,000 judgment against me, and it was over.
[55:27.250 --> 55:28.170]  It was over.
[55:28.350 --> 55:29.950]  That day in the courtroom...
[55:29.950 --> 55:33.670]  Let me just tell you, go back a little bit here, because I kind of get...
[55:33.670 --> 55:34.870]  You know what I'm saying, Emmanuel?
[55:34.870 --> 55:35.410]  You've been there.
[55:35.410 --> 55:40.710]  You kind of get thinking about this, and your blood starts to turn, and you miss high points.
[55:40.750 --> 55:42.450]  And this is a high point of this whole suit.
[55:43.330 --> 55:55.690]  This lawyer that I was working with out of Seattle, Washington, the one that was prosecuting us, if you will, said, Dan Morgan, this is stealing.
[55:57.210 --> 56:02.430]  And for a short time, he looked at me, and he stopped.
[56:02.430 --> 56:06.210]  And he said, you know, this is the equivalent of molesting children.
[56:07.190 --> 56:13.150]  I reached over the table, grabbed this man by the tie, was about ready to do him completely.
[56:13.390 --> 56:16.310]  And my attorney grabbed me, he said, whoa, pal.
[56:16.490 --> 56:17.570]  He said, sit down.
[56:18.230 --> 56:20.230]  They were going to try to throw me in jail for contempt.
[56:20.450 --> 56:39.730]  This attorney just said, prior to that, prior to dunning me like that, he said, if you don't stop publishing this magazine, and the next issue was due to come out, like, in two days, without any advertisers, and we hadn't even come to, you know, a judgment yet or anything like that,
[56:39.930 --> 56:45.470]  he says, I'm going to have federal marshals come to your store and lock you up, come tomorrow morning.
[56:46.070 --> 56:48.150]  And he says, I'm going to go over and see the federal prosecutor.
[56:48.150 --> 56:49.630]  This was in depositions.
[56:50.670 --> 56:51.950]  And have this arranged.
[56:52.170 --> 56:53.010]  Can you believe that?
[56:54.010 --> 56:55.770]  A couple of years ago, I would have said no.
[56:56.910 --> 56:58.630]  Today, yeah, I do believe it.
[56:58.790 --> 56:59.450]  It's incredible.
[56:59.670 --> 57:01.070]  It is absolutely incredible.
[57:02.230 --> 57:04.150]  So, all this transpired.
[57:04.350 --> 57:05.530]  All this stuff went on.
[57:05.670 --> 57:07.210]  I mean, I lost my rear.
[57:07.410 --> 57:07.950]  I really did.
[57:09.130 --> 57:10.510]  I gave it the best.
[57:10.670 --> 57:11.390]  I had attorneys.
[57:11.670 --> 57:12.450]  Listen to this.
[57:12.450 --> 57:16.270]  My attorney was a subscriber to my magazine, okay?
[57:16.470 --> 57:18.630]  He was out of New Jersey, very close to you, as a matter of fact.
[57:20.550 --> 57:23.050]  We were going into depots.
[57:23.130 --> 57:24.290]  It was like a week away.
[57:26.090 --> 57:30.170]  This great attorney that I thought was on top.
[57:30.350 --> 57:41.070]  And you know, folks, there's nothing like having an attorney that reads your magazine because, number one, you have to know what you're defending and understand what you're defending before you can defend it.
[57:41.730 --> 57:46.230]  So, naturally, I felt very comfortable hiring a subscriber that was an attorney.
[57:47.910 --> 57:49.310]  And I did that.
[57:49.490 --> 57:52.610]  This guy backs out on me a week before we go into depots.
[57:52.750 --> 57:52.990]  Why?
[57:53.610 --> 57:55.490]  Because they want to depose him.
[57:56.230 --> 58:01.290]  And, ultimately, we found out that he was more involved in hacking than the people that were supplying the stuff.
[58:05.150 --> 58:08.250]  So, I guess I was kind of screwed all the way around in this thing.
[58:08.250 --> 58:14.370]  So, basically, a card that gets you free television can get you thrown in prison and...
[58:14.370 --> 58:15.850]  Served for many, many years.
[58:16.970 --> 58:20.310]  I mean, I can understand if they say, okay, you know, you're watching...
[58:20.310 --> 58:21.250]  You're stealing free TV.
[58:21.710 --> 58:26.210]  You know, pay a year's worth of what you stole and we'll all be done here.
[58:26.450 --> 58:26.730]  Yeah.
[58:27.150 --> 58:28.290]  But you didn't even steal.
[58:28.290 --> 58:29.990]  You just had possession of a card.
[58:30.110 --> 58:31.670]  Well, you see, he was teaching.
[58:31.910 --> 58:33.130]  He was teaching people.
[58:33.350 --> 58:35.010]  He was explaining the technology.
[58:35.010 --> 58:37.330]  Remember, we've seen this so many times before.
[58:37.450 --> 58:47.290]  We've seen fiber optic, Bernie S., Kevin Mitnick, the people who actually don't do any harm but are seen as inspiring others or, God forbid, teaching others how technology works.
[58:47.670 --> 58:48.610]  That's the real threat.
[58:48.730 --> 58:49.370]  Would you say so, Dan?
[58:49.670 --> 58:50.310]  That's exactly...
[58:51.030 --> 58:55.490]  See, I don't know much about Canada because your co-host there is from Canada.
[58:55.490 --> 58:57.490]  I can tell you this in Canada that...
[58:57.490 --> 58:58.210]  Wait, who's from Canada?
[58:58.410 --> 58:58.990]  No one's from Canada.
[58:59.090 --> 59:00.830]  I thought you had a Canadian there.
[59:00.950 --> 59:02.170]  No, I'm from Oklahoma.
[59:02.550 --> 59:02.690]  Oklahoma.
[59:03.730 --> 59:04.550]  Let me tell you this...
[59:04.550 --> 59:05.970]  I sound Canadian, though, don't I?
[59:06.810 --> 59:08.830]  We'll talk about Canada just for a split second.
[59:09.210 --> 59:11.810]  First of all, in Canada, DirecTV is not sold in Canada.
[59:12.570 --> 59:14.830]  There is no lawful provider.
[59:15.450 --> 59:21.530]  All of the people that were selling in our magazine were in Canada and those that are left still are.
[59:22.270 --> 59:26.490]  Okay, so how can you be stealing if there's no lawful provider?
[59:26.650 --> 59:27.830]  In Canada, you can't be.
[59:28.950 --> 59:31.870]  In other words, you can hack all you want over there, as far as I'm concerned.
[59:32.050 --> 59:32.530]  It's legal.
[59:32.790 --> 59:35.590]  No lawful provider, you can't steal it.
[59:35.910 --> 59:36.570]  That's obvious.
[59:36.750 --> 59:39.230]  In the United States, DirecTV is a lawful provider.
[59:39.410 --> 59:41.510]  So however they want to rate that, they can do that.
[59:41.970 --> 59:45.590]  So anyway, let me just tell you what just happened in Canada.
[59:45.710 --> 59:46.510]  Are you ready for this?
[59:46.690 --> 59:46.990]  Go ahead.
[59:46.990 --> 59:47.610]  This is the latest.
[59:47.610 --> 59:53.250]  And it affected many people in the United States because somehow they found out who was buying from them.
[59:53.870 --> 59:58.390]  Anti-piracy efforts billed with DirecTV.
[59:58.770 --> 01:00:17.490]  In its continuing efforts to enact aggressive force against satellite television piracy, DirecTV announced it filed a federal lawsuit against 80 individuals whom it believes trafficked illegal signal theft equipment imported from Canada for sale in the U.S.
[01:00:17.490 --> 01:00:32.430]  The imported pirate technology, which included pirate access cards and devices used to reprogram them, enabled those who purchased the pirate devices to unscramble and view DirecTV programming without legal authorization.
[01:00:33.530 --> 01:00:36.670]  The federal complaint was filed March 16th in U.S.
[01:00:36.970 --> 01:00:37.370]  District Court.
[01:00:37.370 --> 01:00:53.810]  Larry Rissler, Vice President of Signal Integrity for DirecTV, said this aggressive action against multiple defendants underscores our steadfast commitment to protect the integrity of our signal.
[01:00:53.810 --> 01:01:16.850]  DirecTV believes the 80 defendants purchased the illegal equipment from Reginald Scallion and his wife, Frances, both of Quebec, residents against whom DirecTV won a $19 million federal judgment in January for the illegal exportation of pirate technology and equipment.
[01:01:17.630 --> 01:01:19.430]  This is really getting crazy.
[01:01:19.870 --> 01:01:20.030]  Yeah.
[01:01:20.810 --> 01:01:21.670]  $19 million.
[01:01:22.230 --> 01:01:22.630]  Yes.
[01:01:22.850 --> 01:01:24.390]  This is what happened.
[01:01:24.850 --> 01:01:28.530]  So you can kind of get an idea of what's going on.
[01:01:28.670 --> 01:01:34.190]  In the final closing statement, anyway, of this news article, DirecTV says we take piracy seriously.
[01:01:34.550 --> 01:01:43.910]  It is our serious... it is a serious crime and we are becoming much more aggressive in pursuing these individuals who engage in this activity.
[01:01:43.910 --> 01:01:48.050]  We are going after them through courts, both civilly and criminally.
[01:01:48.230 --> 01:01:52.470]  And, of course, we have also stepped up our electronic countermeasure activity.
[01:01:53.370 --> 01:01:54.810]  It's a serious crime.
[01:01:55.110 --> 01:01:55.270]  Yeah.
[01:01:55.510 --> 01:01:56.230]  It's tons of victim.
[01:01:56.250 --> 01:01:57.170]  Blood in the streets.
[01:01:57.310 --> 01:01:58.590]  Good thing we're building so many new prisons.
[01:01:59.930 --> 01:02:03.510]  You know, I know you personally, Emmanuel.
[01:02:03.870 --> 01:02:07.610]  And, you know, Bernie asks, I've got to tell you something, folks.
[01:02:08.330 --> 01:02:10.550]  These are some of the finest folks I've ever met.
[01:02:12.930 --> 01:02:15.570]  You don't have to worry about your kids being hurt around them.
[01:02:15.750 --> 01:02:16.890]  They're great people.
[01:02:16.890 --> 01:02:16.950]  Right at all?
[01:02:17.390 --> 01:02:17.910]  Sorry!
[00:00.000 --> 00:03.620]  You know, I know you personally, Emanuel.
[00:04.100 --> 00:07.720]  And, you know, Bernie asks, I've got to tell you something, folks.
[00:08.340 --> 00:10.620]  These are some of the finest folks I've ever met.
[00:12.940 --> 00:15.600]  You don't have to worry about your kids being hurt around them.
[00:15.780 --> 00:16.960]  They're great people.
[00:17.120 --> 00:18.140]  They're teaching you.
[00:18.380 --> 00:22.560]  They're teaching you exactly the other side of the story.
[00:23.480 --> 00:24.880]  It's good for everyone to know.
[00:25.000 --> 00:30.240]  In a country where, if you know a little bit of something, it's all hushed up, well, you need to know about this.
[00:30.320 --> 00:36.200]  There's a lot more that went into the Oklahoma bombings than any news network has ever told you.
[00:37.420 --> 00:44.880]  And to be aware, to be aware of the reality of life and the reality of things that happen around you.
[00:44.880 --> 00:53.220]  So, counterintelligence, intelligence, that's gathering information is a very, very important thing to everyone's survival.
[00:53.420 --> 00:55.720]  You know, most people blow off things that happen.
[00:55.820 --> 00:59.340]  You know, they talk about counter surveillance and all this other stuff on television.
[00:59.820 --> 01:01.640]  Nobody listens to that because they don't understand it.
[01:01.680 --> 01:03.280]  You need to start understanding these things.
[01:03.280 --> 01:04.720]  It's very, very important.
[01:05.080 --> 01:20.600]  That's why you need to get on the phone tonight listening to this radio show and call 2-1-2-2-0-9-2-9-5-0 and contribute to the efforts of Emmanuel and his staff.
[01:20.780 --> 01:23.860]  They do great things and do it now.
[01:24.160 --> 01:26.360]  Don't sit there and just listen to this stuff.
[01:26.880 --> 01:27.580]  React.
[01:27.580 --> 01:41.600]  Make sure Emmanuel's around next year, next month, and two years after this because without him, there's one more door closed to the information you need to survive in a real chaotic world.
[01:42.420 --> 01:44.980]  So anyway, that's pretty much what happened to me.
[01:45.120 --> 01:48.180]  I mean, basically the magazine is gone.
[01:48.240 --> 01:49.160]  It's history.
[01:49.320 --> 01:50.380]  It'll never be back.
[01:50.640 --> 01:52.920]  Those who have issues have collector's items.
[01:53.400 --> 01:54.600]  I miss doing it.
[01:54.640 --> 01:55.480]  I love doing it.
[01:55.560 --> 01:57.280]  I love telling both sides of the story.
[01:58.440 --> 01:59.940]  But that's the way it goes.
[02:00.120 --> 02:01.000]  I ran out of money.
[02:01.180 --> 02:02.260]  I couldn't do it anymore.
[02:02.480 --> 02:07.940]  I was fighting General Motors, you know, and I was just a basically a small dinky corporation.
[02:08.220 --> 02:10.500]  How can a company tell you not to publish?
[02:10.820 --> 02:13.100]  This sounds like we live in China.
[02:13.360 --> 02:14.600]  Do you believe in a constitution?
[02:15.000 --> 02:15.860]  I'll tell you what.
[02:15.960 --> 02:21.140]  I used to burn it because there's not much of one left in this country.
[02:21.340 --> 02:21.740]  It's gone.
[02:22.340 --> 02:23.120]  It's really gone.
[02:23.120 --> 02:25.500]  2-1-2-2-0-9-2-9-5-0.
[02:25.620 --> 02:28.800]  We're listening to Dan Morgan, formerly of Satellite Watch News.
[02:28.980 --> 02:36.880]  Satellite Watch News was shut down by General Motors-owned DirecTV because they didn't like the things that Dan was printing.
[02:36.880 --> 02:44.800]  much the same way that we are now seeing with 2600 with big corporations, some of them auto industry corporations, not liking what we're printing.
[02:45.580 --> 02:47.420]  You can say the same thing of the radio station.
[02:47.520 --> 02:53.260]  A lot of people don't like the kinds of things that we expose, the kinds of things that we talk about.
[02:53.260 --> 03:03.200]  But for us to remain here, as Dan so eloquently said, we need this voice to keep another door from being shut.
[03:03.360 --> 03:06.020]  And that's exactly what will happen, what will continue to happen.
[03:06.040 --> 03:11.020]  The devastation I saw in Detroit, it's something that you can see in radio today.
[03:11.020 --> 03:16.880]  If you just simply go on the dial, you'll see nothing, lots of nothing, just being repeated every place.
[03:17.360 --> 03:21.860]  And not having this voice means an important door being shut.
[03:22.020 --> 03:23.720]  212-209-2950.
[03:23.940 --> 03:25.120]  We have one call on the line.
[03:25.220 --> 03:26.780]  We really should have more like 10.
[03:27.100 --> 03:31.160]  Yeah, there's not too much incentive to keep this show on the air when we can't raise any dough.
[03:31.360 --> 03:31.780]  That's right.
[03:31.900 --> 03:32.320]  That's right.
[03:32.420 --> 03:35.040]  So, at least call and give $10.
[03:35.620 --> 03:35.980]  I mean...
[03:35.980 --> 03:46.780]  Whatever it is that you can afford or whatever it is you feel is right to give, the important thing is that we see a lot of numbers, a lot of people calling in and showing support in that way.
[03:46.880 --> 03:49.640]  We do have different levels of premiums.
[03:49.700 --> 03:52.300]  We have the $200 package, all issues of $2,600.
[03:52.600 --> 04:02.440]  And I can't think of a better way to learn about things like Dan's story, things like the technology that people are getting in trouble for talking about.
[04:02.560 --> 04:09.260]  I mean, you know, we're at the stage now where people are going to jail or being put out of business because they talk about things.
[04:09.360 --> 04:10.580]  They talk about technology.
[04:10.980 --> 04:12.500]  It's not in the future anymore.
[04:12.500 --> 04:13.400]  It is here.
[04:13.400 --> 04:21.760]  And if you want to learn about this before it becomes completely illegal to even think about it, then you need to be reading the publications that talk about this kind of thing.
[04:21.880 --> 04:29.380]  Through $2,600, you'll be able to learn a lot about what's happened in the past and also things that are up ahead on the future.
[04:29.660 --> 04:31.280]  212-209-2900.
[04:31.400 --> 04:32.600]  We have 2950.
[04:32.760 --> 04:32.960]  I'm sorry.
[04:33.320 --> 04:34.240]  Four calls on the line.
[04:34.400 --> 04:36.400]  And for $100, you get all the T-shirts and the hats.
[04:36.440 --> 04:39.660]  And for $10, if you give it to Isaac level, he'll call you.
[04:40.120 --> 04:41.120]  Well, Isaac is here now.
[04:41.440 --> 04:41.840]  Isaac...
[04:41.840 --> 04:42.640]  Oh, I'm here now.
[04:42.760 --> 04:43.060]  Yes.
[04:44.220 --> 04:45.080]  Yes, go ahead, Dan.
[04:45.220 --> 04:45.440]  Okay.
[04:45.560 --> 04:46.800]  I didn't know if my pot was still up or not.
[04:48.100 --> 04:49.820]  Anyway, folks, I want to tell you something.
[04:52.320 --> 04:55.700]  Emmanuel has a great handle on what's happening in this country.
[04:56.220 --> 04:58.320]  As a matter of fact, probably pretty much worldwide.
[04:59.960 --> 05:03.920]  The reason you folks listen every week is because you want to learn what he knows.
[05:05.840 --> 05:09.720]  My radio show, when I was doing DB1, taught people.
[05:10.460 --> 05:11.820]  I taught religiously.
[05:11.920 --> 05:14.160]  I taught them if they had a satellite receiver problem.
[05:14.220 --> 05:16.420]  A lot of our listeners were very technical.
[05:16.700 --> 05:19.760]  But they really didn't know satellite receivers very well.
[05:19.920 --> 05:24.500]  And they'd call me up and I'd say, Hey, replace this capacitor here in this audio circuit.
[05:24.620 --> 05:25.900]  It'll restore your audio.
[05:25.900 --> 05:29.640]  So I fixed, like, hundreds of thousands of receivers for free.
[05:30.360 --> 05:33.440]  And I was in the receiver repair business at the time also.
[05:34.340 --> 05:40.960]  What I'm telling you is Emmanuel's giving away premiums to raise money, which is pretty much what public radio does.
[05:42.900 --> 05:55.860]  For what Emmanuel has given you folks, you should be giving to him, not expecting a t-shirt, not expecting a hat, but saying, Damn, I want to hear you next week.
[05:56.900 --> 05:58.780]  That's very, very important.
[05:59.060 --> 06:00.380]  So remember that.
[06:00.760 --> 06:04.280]  So if you've got a few bucks, reach in your pocket, send it to him.
[06:04.840 --> 06:06.020]  He's doing a battle.
[06:06.220 --> 06:07.300]  He's fighting for you guys.
[06:07.440 --> 06:07.880]  Same thing.
[06:08.040 --> 06:09.700]  I fought for my subscribers.
[06:10.960 --> 06:16.540]  Many of my subscribers supported me without expecting anything in return.
[06:17.600 --> 06:19.020]  This is a time of need.
[06:19.160 --> 06:21.500]  You know, this guy needs your bucks.
[06:21.720 --> 06:22.980]  He needs to get through this.
[06:23.140 --> 06:26.780]  He doesn't want your, you know, your entire income.
[06:26.940 --> 06:28.340]  A little teeny bit of it.
[06:28.760 --> 06:29.660]  And you know something?
[06:29.780 --> 06:35.660]  That makes all the difference when that lawyer looks at you and said, Well, this is how many hours we have at $250 an hour.
[06:35.960 --> 06:38.280]  This is how much money I need to continue on.
[06:39.320 --> 06:41.460]  And you know, Emanuel's one guy.
[06:43.080 --> 06:44.980]  He needs your help.
[06:45.120 --> 06:46.260]  And I'm sorry, Emanuel, go ahead.
[06:46.460 --> 06:50.620]  Well, actually, it's the radio station that we're raising money for.
[06:50.860 --> 06:58.380]  But I think in kind of a symbolic way, pledging for the radio station helps us.
[06:58.380 --> 07:16.760]  While it's not directly going into our pockets or into our lawyers' pockets or into whatever the next legal battle is going to be, having this voice here, knowing this voice is safe and secure, that makes us have the strength to keep going in much the same way that actual financial contributions to us help.
[07:17.380 --> 07:26.420]  Actually, I think this is more important because if we didn't have this radio station, if we didn't have this program on this radio station, imagine all the stories you would not have heard about.
[07:26.540 --> 07:28.180]  You would not have heard Dan Morgan's story.
[07:28.280 --> 07:29.500]  You would not have heard Bernie S.'s story.
[07:29.620 --> 07:30.880]  You would not have heard Fiber Optics' story.
[07:31.020 --> 07:32.860]  You would not have heard Kevin Mitnick's story.
[07:32.860 --> 07:41.740]  And all the other stories that we've covered over the years, and all the many more that we're unfortunately going to have to cover in the years ahead of all kinds of injustices that will be occurring.
[07:41.960 --> 07:47.900]  We live in a very fascinating time because there are all kinds of bad things happening.
[07:48.940 --> 07:59.720]  It really seems like we're watching a melodramatic story on TV unfolding, and just seeing how at every commercial break things get a little bit worse until you reach some sort of a crisis point.
[08:00.680 --> 08:02.540]  Except we're in the thick of it here.
[08:02.700 --> 08:03.380]  We really are.
[08:03.520 --> 08:05.680]  And we need to be able to reach people.
[08:05.760 --> 08:10.480]  If we weren't able to do that, we'd just, by default, lose every single time.
[08:10.880 --> 08:13.600]  And if we lose, I think a lot of other people lose as well.
[08:13.760 --> 08:15.000]  That's why we need your support.
[08:15.120 --> 08:16.700]  212-209-2950.
[08:16.840 --> 08:18.860]  Again, we have three levels.
[08:18.980 --> 08:22.560]  We have the $200 level, the $100 level, the $75 level.
[08:22.640 --> 08:27.740]  And as Laszlo said, we have levels at all different areas, depending on how much you really want to pledge.
[08:27.740 --> 08:32.580]  The important thing is that a lot of you call and show that you're out there.
[08:32.980 --> 08:41.720]  And I know, you know, a lot of people are, you know, as has been for quite some time, concerned about where Pacifica is going, where WBAI is going.
[08:41.880 --> 08:45.160]  And these are all fine and valid things to talk about.
[08:45.320 --> 08:48.100]  We'll have an opportunity to talk about them at 9 o'clock with listeners.
[08:49.640 --> 08:53.460]  The important thing, though, is to stand by us when we need you.
[08:53.520 --> 08:54.280]  And right now, we do.
[08:54.440 --> 08:55.460]  We need those phone calls.
[08:55.960 --> 09:02.700]  If there are concerns that you wish to voice, this is the place where you can voice those concerns.
[09:02.840 --> 09:04.040]  It has to count for something.
[09:04.540 --> 09:06.800]  212-209-2950.
[09:07.340 --> 09:08.820]  Please show your support.
[09:09.060 --> 09:13.320]  Voice your support for the radio station for this radio show.
[09:14.120 --> 09:21.980]  Emanuel, one thing I do have to say is that out of all the publications that I've read, you do an excellent job.
[09:22.600 --> 09:23.660]  You're honest.
[09:23.880 --> 09:25.360]  Your approach is sincere.
[09:25.820 --> 09:29.700]  And, you know, to a reader, we can read any paper.
[09:30.330 --> 09:31.560]  We can watch CNN.
[09:31.900 --> 09:34.040]  That's the Clinton News Network in my book.
[09:34.160 --> 09:35.200]  But we can do that.
[09:36.260 --> 09:40.660]  And we only get a quarter of the story, maybe 30% on a good night.
[09:41.740 --> 09:43.160]  You've told it the way it was.
[09:44.000 --> 09:44.860]  You've done well.
[09:44.980 --> 09:45.940]  You take a lot of pride.
[09:46.120 --> 09:48.900]  You know, again, we've met now twice.
[09:49.940 --> 09:55.460]  Yeah, and I have to thank Ford, because if it wasn't for the Ford lawsuit, I wouldn't have gone to Dayton this weekend at the ham bench.
[09:55.600 --> 09:57.280]  And I met all kinds of cool people.
[09:57.280 --> 10:03.800]  And, folks, when I have pulled up in the parking lot where we were to meet, Emanuel was out there on the phone.
[10:04.000 --> 10:05.080]  Now, picture this.
[10:05.360 --> 10:07.380]  Here is a guy that is so concerned.
[10:07.560 --> 10:09.780]  Again, he knows what he's talking about.
[10:10.140 --> 10:15.220]  He's pacing back and forth up and down in the parking lot talking to an attorney.
[10:16.820 --> 10:18.920]  He's not worried about himself.
[10:19.560 --> 10:25.280]  He's worried about teaching you what is really going on.
[10:26.140 --> 10:28.720]  So, sure, support the radio station.
[10:28.720 --> 10:31.940]  That needs to be done, because this gives Emanuel a voice.
[10:32.060 --> 10:33.660]  And it's a very good voice.
[10:33.660 --> 10:34.780]  It needs to be heard.
[10:35.120 --> 10:41.120]  But also, I'm sure a check to $2,600 for a couple of bucks more wouldn't hurt.
[10:41.380 --> 10:43.500]  You just put on there, Legal Defense Fund.
[10:43.700 --> 10:45.340]  Heck, do it.
[10:46.180 --> 10:49.320]  Whatever it is you're saying, Dan, it's working, because we have 12 calls on the line.
[10:49.340 --> 10:52.640]  Yeah, really, I've been squawking for an hour, and I got no love.
[10:52.860 --> 10:54.140]  This guy's got the touch.
[10:54.760 --> 10:55.200]  12950.
[10:55.480 --> 10:55.860]  Yes.
[10:56.020 --> 10:57.300]  You will not regret it.
[10:57.440 --> 11:00.080]  If you folks want to email me, is that okay, Emanuel?
[11:00.200 --> 11:00.340]  Absolutely.
[11:00.340 --> 11:01.020]  I'll give you an email address.
[11:01.160 --> 11:01.640]  Go right ahead.
[11:01.840 --> 11:09.980]  It's simply, all lowercase, Dan, at, pop, P-O-P, for the number four, dot net.
[11:10.380 --> 11:16.960]  If I can say, Dan, seeing you after this lawsuit and everything, I was concerned how this might have affected you.
[11:17.000 --> 11:18.700]  I have to say, you've come through it very well.
[11:18.700 --> 11:20.260]  I've got to tell you something.
[11:20.500 --> 11:21.940]  I am slowly recovering.
[11:22.080 --> 11:23.300]  You know, I'm a Vietnam veteran.
[11:24.180 --> 11:26.320]  I'm slowly recovering from all this.
[11:26.460 --> 11:27.300]  Oh, there's scars.
[11:27.840 --> 11:29.180]  Hell, I'm not going to lie to you.
[11:29.240 --> 11:31.500]  There's scars from anything you go through that traumatic.
[11:33.260 --> 11:34.140]  It's devastating.
[11:34.660 --> 11:42.480]  I mean, my son and I looked over at each other, my foster son, and we looked over at each other and just, what the hell are we going to eat tonight for dinner?
[11:42.720 --> 11:43.760]  We were tapped.
[11:44.500 --> 11:46.880]  You know, we were burnt out.
[11:47.080 --> 11:50.560]  We were mentally, physically, and financially exhausted.
[11:50.920 --> 11:52.900]  Do you still owe money to General Motors?
[11:53.040 --> 11:57.380]  They still have a $400,000 judgment hanging over my head.
[11:57.500 --> 12:00.260]  God bless America for telling people how satellite TV works.
[12:00.680 --> 12:01.440]  It's the truth.
[12:01.800 --> 12:05.680]  Now, you've got to understand, satellite TV is the most fascinating thing in the world.
[12:05.840 --> 12:09.840]  But I highly recommend, to hell with the little dish, buy the big dish.
[12:10.140 --> 12:11.120]  Because you know something?
[12:11.440 --> 12:15.500]  General Instruments, and I talked to the head security officer at General Instruments when I had the magazine.
[12:15.800 --> 12:17.080]  Had him on my radio show.
[12:17.260 --> 12:19.680]  He said, Dan Morgan, he says, I love your magazine.
[12:20.500 --> 12:22.020]  And I said, why is that?
[12:22.160 --> 12:22.820]  Jim Shelton.
[12:23.240 --> 12:26.420]  And he said, because you're honest, you're open.
[12:26.780 --> 12:27.760]  Sure, we're hacked.
[12:30.660 --> 12:32.880]  DirecTV closed their own source of information.
[12:33.340 --> 12:35.040]  You know, they could see all the advertisers.
[12:35.240 --> 12:35.860]  They didn't care.
[12:36.180 --> 12:39.340]  And they occasionally went after somebody, shut them down.
[12:39.980 --> 12:41.480]  They didn't really sue them to death.
[12:42.240 --> 12:46.520]  They looked at it as basically, you know, we're the big boys.
[12:46.540 --> 12:47.460]  We can handle this.
[12:48.060 --> 12:49.380]  And they did countermeasures.
[12:50.040 --> 12:51.540]  DirecTV's got a real problem.
[12:51.720 --> 12:54.780]  You know, and sure, I can understand defending your product.
[12:54.900 --> 12:55.680]  Sure, I can do that.
[12:55.680 --> 13:00.580]  But damn, to sue people like that and rip them apart, there's a real problem there.
[13:01.900 --> 13:05.280]  So, you know, their encryption system was hacked from the beginning.
[13:05.440 --> 13:08.240]  They could have went out and bought something that was unhackable.
[13:08.400 --> 13:13.860]  And instead of General Instruments, who made the encryption system for the big dish, you know, the 10-foot, the 8-footers?
[13:14.100 --> 13:14.380]  Mm-hmm.
[13:15.060 --> 13:15.620]  It's the good stuff.
[13:15.620 --> 13:17.800]  And, you know, taking people to task and killing them?
[13:17.940 --> 13:19.340]  They invented a better mouse.
[13:19.520 --> 13:20.400]  And guess what?
[13:21.140 --> 13:23.020]  There was no trap that could compete.
[13:23.260 --> 13:26.500]  They built a vulnerable DES encryption system.
[13:26.620 --> 13:31.320]  So if you went to start probing it or what have you, it automatically dumped its core.
[13:31.540 --> 13:32.100]  It was gone.
[13:32.580 --> 13:36.140]  Changed the capacity on a pin and an IC, the VLSI, it erased itself.
[13:36.360 --> 13:37.320]  They built a good trap.
[13:37.540 --> 13:38.720]  You couldn't get C keys.
[13:41.340 --> 13:42.680]  DirecTV didn't do that.
[13:42.820 --> 13:44.540]  They chose to rip people apart.
[13:45.060 --> 13:47.080]  They keep a damn bad mouse.
[13:47.220 --> 13:48.760]  It gets caught all the time, and it gets hacked.
[13:48.860 --> 13:51.200]  Well, you have to understand, it's a lot cheaper for them to do that.
[13:51.360 --> 13:54.700]  Why invest, you know, hundreds of thousands and millions of dollars?
[13:54.880 --> 13:56.280]  They're in bed with NewsDataCom.
[13:56.400 --> 13:59.780]  You know, it's a, you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours, we'll get hacked, we'll sue.
[14:00.080 --> 14:00.320]  Exactly.
[14:00.320 --> 14:00.960]  That's all it is.
[14:01.080 --> 14:02.580]  That's all it is.
[14:02.720 --> 14:10.920]  It's a lot easier for them to actually put their lawyers, who are already on retainers, sitting in a room somewhere, twiddling their thumbs to go after people, than to actually do R&D.
[14:11.100 --> 14:11.580]  You're right.
[14:12.360 --> 14:13.200]  That's what it comes down to.
[14:13.200 --> 14:19.020]  It would be so easy for them to change their encryption system, but they choose not to do that.
[14:20.060 --> 14:21.420]  So, that is their problem.
[14:22.520 --> 14:26.540]  You know, it's no one else's, and let them do what they want to do.
[14:26.680 --> 14:27.520]  No, it's everyone else's.
[14:27.540 --> 14:33.100]  Most of the people that do this stuff, basically, aren't in it to make a buck, because I can tell you there is no money to be made in hacking, guys.
[14:33.300 --> 14:37.000]  There is, you know, if you're going to have countermeasures all the time, there's no money to do that.
[14:37.000 --> 14:41.860]  I have never really had any interest in sitting down, hacking a card.
[14:42.060 --> 14:45.120]  But somebody else does, and it's news to be reported.
[14:45.440 --> 14:50.800]  And whatever somebody else does, it's fun to report, because it is reality, and it is industry news.
[14:50.960 --> 14:53.840]  And now the sites that are reporting the news are being sued themselves.
[14:54.460 --> 14:55.100]  That's right.
[14:55.320 --> 14:56.960]  Oh, hell, they've shut down websites.
[14:57.300 --> 14:57.460]  Yeah.
[14:57.460 --> 14:58.780]  They've taken them right out.
[14:59.960 --> 15:01.480]  They've sued ISPs.
[15:02.140 --> 15:05.680]  They've literally sued ISPs for hosting these sites.
[15:06.520 --> 15:07.920]  We live in scary times.
[15:08.040 --> 15:09.800]  Dan, I hope we have not lost your voice.
[15:09.960 --> 15:19.220]  I hope you're able to contribute in the future, either on radio or through publications, because you really have a lot to say, and you will certainly be back on this program in the months and years ahead.
[15:19.600 --> 15:26.720]  And I just want to thank you for the inspiration, because I know you've inspired a lot of people with your courage and with your quest for knowledge, which is what it's really all about.
[15:27.360 --> 15:29.000]  Emanuel, I'll tell you something.
[15:29.260 --> 15:30.620]  I've seen your publication.
[15:30.800 --> 15:31.780]  I know who you are.
[15:32.280 --> 15:33.840]  I know what you're made out of.
[15:34.040 --> 15:36.440]  And, folks, get off your butts.
[15:36.640 --> 15:40.160]  I mean, sure, stock market's not doing well and all this other stuff.
[15:40.340 --> 15:41.120]  Stop wang.
[15:41.620 --> 15:46.680]  Support these people, because I'll tell you what, the information they're going to feed you is going to cover your butt one day.
[15:46.840 --> 15:47.580]  Believe me.
[15:47.820 --> 15:50.320]  And the number is 212-209-2950.
[15:50.660 --> 15:56.720]  We've been speaking with Dan Morgan, formerly of Satellite Watch News, and I'm sure he'll be coming up with some good stuff in the future.
[15:56.720 --> 15:58.340]  And we're looking forward to that, Dan.
[15:58.480 --> 15:59.520]  Thanks so much for joining us.
[15:59.620 --> 16:00.600]  Guys, God bless.
[16:00.840 --> 16:04.720]  And I'll tell you what, Emanuel, stay strong, because you will win.
[16:05.160 --> 16:05.500]  Thank you.
[16:05.620 --> 16:06.020]  Be good, my friend.
[16:06.100 --> 16:06.340]  Bye-bye.
[16:06.420 --> 16:06.720]  Thank you.
[16:07.520 --> 16:14.560]  You know, I don't think anything shows the Spirit better than the person we just heard from.
[16:15.140 --> 16:20.020]  And there are so many people like that out there who have courage.
[16:20.400 --> 16:22.440]  You know, you might not know who they are.
[16:22.520 --> 16:23.680]  You might not know what they're doing.
[16:24.560 --> 16:28.420]  You might not ever know who they are, what they're doing, but they're out there.
[16:28.420 --> 16:43.920]  And you learn that when you come under hard times, when something happens, like you get sued by some huge company or you're attacked in some other way or accused of things, you see all the people who are out there who understand, who are willing to show support,
[16:44.040 --> 16:45.320]  who are willing to stand by you.
[16:45.840 --> 16:52.820]  And that's what I felt this Friday in Detroit, just all the people that were there, all the people that cared, all the people that emailed us.
[16:52.900 --> 16:54.060]  We got email from South Africa.
[16:54.180 --> 17:00.320]  We got email from all around the world, from people mailing to the caravan saying, hey, you know, we can't be there, but we're with you in spirit.
[17:00.620 --> 17:02.040]  And that really meant a lot.
[17:02.180 --> 17:10.820]  That meant so much, much more than you possibly could think it would mean, just knowing that people are there and they care, they understand, and they're willing to stand up and be counted.
[17:10.820 --> 17:17.240]  You have people doing this from high schools into the real world, into professional life.
[17:17.620 --> 17:25.200]  There are people inside these corporations that have courage, that are standing up to the injustices, that are letting us know what's going on.
[17:26.100 --> 17:29.820]  And it just is a really heartening thing to be able to do that.
[17:29.820 --> 17:39.260]  And I really felt it this past weekend, just thanks to Ford for having us go out there and defend ourselves, but it just led us to see so many other people along the way.
[17:39.320 --> 17:50.940]  We were able to go to Dayton, the Dayton Hamvention, and meet all the cool people there, and just see how educated people are, how educated people want to be, and how we all see the threat.
[17:51.120 --> 17:56.620]  We all know that this is wrong, this is bad, what is happening to us, and we have to stand together.
[17:56.620 --> 18:05.620]  Maybe you should set up a mail server so that this website that you registered, the bad word, generalmotors.com, people can have email addresses at it.
[18:05.940 --> 18:06.940]  Like, Dan, it would be perfect.
[18:07.060 --> 18:09.380]  Dan, at fgeneralmotors.com.
[18:09.400 --> 18:17.140]  I can't think of a better subject matter to put on the fgeneralmotors.com site than what happened to Dan, because General Motors was behind that.
[18:17.360 --> 18:17.640]  Oh.
[18:18.100 --> 18:18.500]  Yeah.
[18:19.080 --> 18:20.560]  That might be good.
[18:20.660 --> 18:23.420]  Well, see, you know, other people out there that have...
[18:23.420 --> 18:24.860]  Isaac looks interested in setting that up.
[18:24.860 --> 18:26.540]  Am I misreading your expressions?
[18:26.580 --> 18:28.120]  Isaac's been surfing the net for the last hour.
[18:28.580 --> 18:29.380]  Get off the internet.
[18:29.760 --> 18:31.000]  Oh, I thought I wasn't here.
[18:31.020 --> 18:31.540]  I'm sorry.
[18:32.260 --> 18:34.740]  So, I've got an exciting Clear Channel report.
[18:34.920 --> 18:35.720]  Are you ready for that yet?
[18:36.420 --> 18:37.140]  It's short.
[18:38.020 --> 18:39.780]  Yeah, I guess you can read about Clear Channel.
[18:40.080 --> 18:52.120]  Well, for those of you that listen to this station, and this station exclusively, you may not have noticed that the Congress basically passed some exciting legislation that allowed a few companies to buy every radio station in America.
[18:52.860 --> 18:55.380]  The number one company is called Clear Channel.
[18:55.560 --> 18:57.860]  They currently own 1,200 stations.
[18:58.260 --> 19:00.500]  That's 1,200 radio stations.
[19:01.040 --> 19:10.840]  And I have a lot of friends in radio, or let me say had a lot of friends in radio, because what they're doing is firing the staff of many of these stations, dozens, hundreds of stations.
[19:10.840 --> 19:18.060]  They fire the staff, and they've created what they call DJ farms across the United States.
[19:18.220 --> 19:24.780]  And these DJ farms are just DJs in booths that come in and read lines all day, like, Hey, that was Led Zeppin.
[19:24.920 --> 19:26.140]  Boy, it sure is sunny outside.
[19:26.320 --> 19:27.220]  Coming up, it's Van Halen.
[19:27.220 --> 19:35.220]  And that packet is sent over data wires to, let's say, Toledo.
[19:35.720 --> 19:37.880]  And it's placed in between songs.
[19:38.100 --> 19:42.800]  And at radio stations now, they just have computer servers that have all the songs loaded on them.
[19:42.940 --> 19:52.060]  The servers, the radio station is programmed from halfway across the country by somebody sitting up on high in a corporate tower who can program all these radio stations at once.
[19:52.060 --> 20:01.820]  And the DJs voice their bits, and it's just shipped out over data lines, and they're able to read that in that town it's sunny, and so forth, so they can sound like they're actually in that town.
[20:02.180 --> 20:12.400]  What's even more insidious is that 247 of the nation's 250 radio markets are owned by Clear Channel.
[20:12.400 --> 20:21.060]  And they also own SFX Entertainment and are now basically making or breaking bands.
[20:21.420 --> 20:31.780]  If a radio station competition gets a concert, then the Clear Channel stations nationwide will say, You know what?
[20:31.780 --> 20:35.060]  We don't appreciate that, and we're going to pull that artist off of all of our stations.
[20:35.360 --> 20:36.260]  Isn't that illegal?
[20:36.420 --> 20:38.100]  Isn't that called, like, payola or something?
[20:38.100 --> 20:47.340]  Well, there's a lot of things that, in theory, are illegal, but, I mean, who's going to slap these people on the wrist?
[20:48.280 --> 20:59.860]  Another exciting thing that they did is, and I ran across this with my syndicated feature, Clear Channel purchased a bunch of different syndicated shows like Rush Limbaugh, Dr. Laura, all these really awful shows.
[20:59.860 --> 21:00.760]  Oh, I heard about this, yeah.
[21:01.360 --> 21:09.540]  And what they did is, there are stations out there that have run these shows for 12 years and put a lot of money and time into these shows.
[21:09.680 --> 21:12.180]  I'll be at, I'm not too crazy about either show.
[21:12.580 --> 21:16.100]  Clear Channel contacted all the stations that were running it and said, You know what?
[21:16.100 --> 21:17.400]  You can't run the show anymore.
[21:17.400 --> 21:20.220]  We're moving it to our station across town.
[21:20.220 --> 21:26.800]  Um, so, because they don't, they don't want other stations making money off of, off of their properties.
[21:27.360 --> 21:34.760]  Um, they also own, this is exciting, guess how many billboards Clear Channel owns?
[21:34.900 --> 21:36.200]  Oh, I don't even want to think about that.
[21:37.080 --> 21:37.980]  Billboards too, eh?
[21:38.080 --> 21:39.580]  Yeah, they own a billboard company.
[21:43.400 --> 21:45.260]  Um, I think that's close.
[21:45.260 --> 21:55.500]  But basically now, they own, um, they own radio stations, they own syndication companies, they own all the concert halls, and they own billboards.
[21:55.680 --> 21:57.720]  So, they own the planet.
[21:57.940 --> 22:05.200]  And, I have buddies in radio that, their stations were bought by Clear Channel, and Clear Channel gave them contracts, you know, DJ contracts.
[22:05.780 --> 22:06.220]  Mm-hmm.
[22:06.340 --> 22:09.180]  They want you to sign saying, Clear Channel owns your name.
[22:09.420 --> 22:15.280]  And you cannot go to any other radio station and use that name on the radio that Clear Channel owns it.
[22:15.340 --> 22:16.580]  Even if it's your real name?
[22:16.760 --> 22:20.200]  Even if, if you, if you, even if it's your real name.
[22:20.360 --> 22:20.600]  Who would sign a contract like that?
[22:20.740 --> 22:21.100]  Do what?
[22:21.240 --> 22:22.460]  Who would sign a contract like that?
[22:22.480 --> 22:23.440]  A lot of people aren't.
[22:23.560 --> 22:32.940]  In fact, uh, CBS is actually, um, is actually stealing people away from Clear Channel because there's so many people disgruntled at the heavy-handed.
[22:32.940 --> 22:33.800]  It's entirely reasonable.
[22:33.800 --> 22:37.380]  I think that's a wonderful opportunity for competing radio stations to get real talent.
[22:37.460 --> 22:37.980]  But it's, but it's not.
[22:38.180 --> 22:40.440]  It's, it's either, well, there's three companies left.
[22:40.700 --> 22:41.000]  Okay.
[22:41.180 --> 22:42.480]  That own all the radio stations.
[22:43.200 --> 22:44.620]  This is not good for democracy.
[22:45.420 --> 22:47.120]  No, not much of what we talk about is.
[22:47.220 --> 22:49.080]  Bernie Esna joins us from, uh, Philadelphia.
[22:49.300 --> 22:49.700]  Bernie, you there?
[22:50.260 --> 22:52.900]  Boy, am I fired up after listening to you and Dan Morgan.
[22:53.100 --> 22:53.780]  It's just, uh...
[22:53.780 --> 22:55.020]  I think a lot of people are.
[22:55.120 --> 22:57.200]  I see people running around banging things on walls and stuff.
[22:57.440 --> 23:01.380]  I, I, it, it, it gets you angry, you know, when, when such injustice happens.
[23:01.560 --> 23:05.780]  We felt the same way with your case, Bernie, but, uh, it's just, it doesn't seem to be stopping.
[23:05.960 --> 23:08.900]  It seems to be, uh, increasing and, and getting more and more outrageous.
[23:09.260 --> 23:14.720]  You know, the more of these cases you hear, Emmanuel, the more it just sounds like the same thing over and over again.
[23:15.300 --> 23:15.540]  Mm-hmm.
[23:15.540 --> 23:19.280]  Um, it's just, it's just, it's the same, like Dan Morgan's case.
[23:19.800 --> 23:28.140]  He's publicizing, uh, toward encryption technology and how, uh, people have defeated it.
[23:28.280 --> 23:32.940]  And what's the DMCA case about with, with the, with the Motion Picture Association of America?
[23:33.620 --> 23:34.560]  The same thing.
[23:35.320 --> 23:35.580]  Exactly.
[23:35.760 --> 23:37.160]  It's the same kind of stuff.
[23:37.320 --> 23:38.480]  Dan's case was a few years ago.
[23:38.740 --> 23:41.160]  This one's happening, uh, last year and this year.
[23:42.020 --> 24:01.120]  And the DirecTV case where, where the, the legal strategy is to, was to, uh, just let things go and, uh, pick off people here and there, like Dan Morgan, uh, with their lawyers because they realized it was cheaper to, uh, to meet people in submission with,
[24:01.140 --> 24:05.100]  with legal firepower than to actually address their own Ford technology.
[24:05.100 --> 24:09.660]  That reminded me of the Ford Motor Company back in the 70s with the Ford Pinto.
[24:10.000 --> 24:11.440]  How many of us remember that?
[24:11.720 --> 24:18.640]  Where, uh, they risk people's lives by not, uh, not publicizing, uh, uh, poor, uh, poor engineering.
[24:18.900 --> 24:21.440]  People were being killed in their Ford automobiles.
[24:21.560 --> 24:21.780]  Mm-hmm.
[24:21.860 --> 24:28.340]  And it's just cheaper for them to, uh, have their lawyers, uh, pay these, pay these, these claims off when people are killed.
[24:28.560 --> 24:30.040]  I mean, same kind of stuff.
[24:30.040 --> 24:32.000]  You see the same themes over and over again.
[24:32.000 --> 24:36.920]  And people really have to wake up and see that this is, this is nothing new that's going on.
[24:37.020 --> 24:37.900]  It's a continuing battle.
[24:38.240 --> 24:39.160]  You've got to keep fighting it.
[24:39.740 --> 24:43.680]  And, uh, you can look far and wide on the AM and FM dials.
[24:43.760 --> 24:44.640]  You can look on shortwave.
[24:44.800 --> 24:46.260]  You can look everywhere on TV.
[24:46.260 --> 24:52.500]  You will not find this kind of thing being talked about by the people who are being affected by it.
[24:52.540 --> 24:53.460]  That's why we need you to call.
[24:53.460 --> 24:55.440]  Yeah, why is, why is Disney going to report on this kind of stuff?
[24:55.540 --> 24:58.060]  Yeah, Disney, Disney owns radio stations all over the place.
[24:58.600 --> 25:01.940]  And, uh, they just will talk about something nice and pleasant.
[25:02.400 --> 25:04.800]  Like, you know, an elephant's birthday or something.
[25:04.960 --> 25:05.800]  That'll be news to them.
[25:06.660 --> 25:08.620]  212-209-2950.
[25:08.900 --> 25:09.980]  Please give it to Isaac level.
[25:10.080 --> 25:16.480]  We had, we had, we had a whole lot, a whole lot of, uh, calls before, but I see the total is 1,650.
[25:16.500 --> 25:18.840]  Is that, uh, is that it for all those calls?
[25:18.940 --> 25:19.900]  Because we have a lot of calls.
[25:20.080 --> 25:22.940]  And, uh, I, I, I hope the number goes up higher than that.
[25:22.940 --> 25:26.600]  But, 212-209-2950, we have four calls on the line right now.
[25:26.720 --> 25:28.440]  And it's, it's not like you're, you, you don't get anything.
[25:28.620 --> 25:30.920]  First off, you get the, you get free radio.
[25:31.160 --> 25:31.440]  Right.
[25:31.720 --> 25:34.600]  You get to listen to that instead of, uh, you know, J-Lo.
[25:34.760 --> 25:36.820]  As in free in, in, in, in, in spirit.
[25:37.400 --> 25:37.620]  Right.
[25:37.880 --> 25:38.320]  Speech radio.
[25:38.540 --> 25:38.820]  Exactly.
[25:39.080 --> 25:47.220]  And, uh, secondly, Emmanuel is going to go to this warehouse that he's, uh, tacked into or whatever, where all his t-shirts are.
[25:47.380 --> 25:50.080]  Rush the cobwebs away, open the door, the frips.
[25:50.080 --> 25:52.920]  Stuff a big thing of t-shirts together and mail them out to you.
[25:52.980 --> 25:54.360]  I mean, for a hundred, for a hundred bucks.
[25:54.740 --> 25:54.920]  Mm-hmm.
[25:55.120 --> 25:57.340]  A hundred bucks, $200, every back issue of 2600.
[25:57.480 --> 25:58.780]  We've been coming out since 1984.
[25:59.520 --> 26:01.820]  It's scary how much has happened in that amount of time.
[26:01.940 --> 26:10.520]  And you can see for yourself all the different developments that have taken place since we started in our humble beginnings as a three-sheet newsletter, uh, coming out every month back in 1984.
[26:10.540 --> 26:11.540]  It's real history.
[26:11.740 --> 26:14.700]  There's a lot that's happened, a lot that continues to happen.
[26:15.220 --> 26:26.740]  We knew it was important back then, but, uh, boy, I don't think we could have ever predicted how it would have turned out, how incredibly massive it would have gotten, how people would have been this interested.
[26:26.900 --> 26:29.700]  I mean, we never thought the magazine would be sold on newsstands, you know?
[26:29.780 --> 26:32.360]  We never thought that we'd wind up doing radio in New York City.
[26:32.460 --> 26:36.660]  We thought it was kind of a cool thing, an interesting, uh, hobby to share with other people.
[26:36.980 --> 26:41.260]  And yeah, we knew the computer revolution was, was, you know, at our, at our doorstep.
[26:41.400 --> 26:43.140]  But, uh, I don't know.
[26:43.200 --> 26:45.760]  I guess we just didn't think it would, it would come out quite like this.
[26:45.760 --> 26:48.680]  And you know what, this is, this is just the beginning.
[26:48.900 --> 26:50.020]  Who knows what's going to happen next?
[26:50.020 --> 26:54.060]  But see, there's going to be satellite radio too, and that's going to be a, uh, a free expression of voice.
[26:54.200 --> 26:55.080]  Oh, wait, hold on.
[26:55.160 --> 26:56.440]  That's owned by Clear Channel too.
[26:56.820 --> 26:57.140]  Yeah.
[26:57.260 --> 26:57.900]  I just got the number.
[26:58.000 --> 27:01.260]  Clear Channel owns 700,000 billboards in the United States.
[27:01.380 --> 27:02.020]  Oh my God.
[27:02.800 --> 27:03.440]  700,000.
[27:03.520 --> 27:04.460]  I don't even own one.
[27:04.600 --> 27:05.320]  Are those all static?
[27:05.320 --> 27:07.520]  Or are we talking like the sides of buses and things too?
[27:08.100 --> 27:09.240]  Um, you know what?
[27:09.240 --> 27:09.920]  I'll give them a buzz.
[27:10.040 --> 27:11.200]  I don't think those are billboards though.
[27:11.220 --> 27:12.560]  I think those are advertisements.
[27:13.020 --> 27:14.120]  No, these are outdoor billboards.
[27:14.120 --> 27:16.340]  Yeah, outdoor billboards, because buses can go indoors, so...
[27:16.340 --> 27:17.980]  And they own 19 television stations.
[27:18.300 --> 27:18.520]  Uh-huh.
[27:18.740 --> 27:19.260]  That's all?
[27:19.600 --> 27:20.080]  Mm-hmm.
[27:20.620 --> 27:22.200]  And they own 15 senators.
[27:24.340 --> 27:24.740]  Wonderful.
[27:24.920 --> 27:26.480]  212-209-2950.
[27:26.660 --> 27:27.400]  Nobody owns us.
[27:27.500 --> 27:29.060]  Well, actually, it's not exactly true, but...
[27:29.060 --> 27:29.700]  The listeners own us.
[27:29.720 --> 27:33.540]  The listeners are the ones who own us, and you can prove it by standing with us.
[27:33.640 --> 27:35.200]  212-209-2950.
[27:35.560 --> 27:39.260]  And again, you will have the opportunity to, uh, to speak out starting at nine o'clock.
[27:39.580 --> 27:41.920]  We want to hear from you, report from the listeners.
[27:41.920 --> 27:49.680]  We want to hear how we're doing as a radio station, as a program, as everything, any concept you want to, uh, convey.
[27:50.000 --> 27:51.860]  Uh, that's coming up at nine o'clock.
[27:52.000 --> 28:04.780]  But please, we need to see lots of support up until then and beyond then in order to continue doing things like this, in order to continue bringing you freedom of speech concepts and stories and all the other things that will be happening.
[28:05.440 --> 28:09.420]  There's a lot going on, and we can't do it on our own.
[28:09.540 --> 28:10.380]  We need support.
[28:10.520 --> 28:11.580]  We need support from the listeners.
[28:11.840 --> 28:20.520]  If I had gone to that courtroom on Friday and been the only person there, it would have been a lot different than going there and seeing a crowd of people.
[28:21.260 --> 28:22.140]  Support matters.
[28:22.440 --> 28:24.900]  Support is something that, uh, that keeps us going.
[28:25.060 --> 28:35.680]  And, you know, while I certainly understand people not being happy with everything that's going on, it doesn't mean you, you, you give up, give everything up and walk away because that's the surest way to defeat.
[28:35.860 --> 28:36.840]  You know, I saw Detroit.
[28:37.080 --> 28:42.720]  That doesn't mean I'm, I'm walking away and saying, okay, I'm going to become a citizen of, of France now or something.
[28:42.820 --> 28:47.760]  No, I'm staying and I'm going to do as much as I can to get people aware of what's going on.
[28:47.900 --> 28:48.900]  You know, you have to do that.
[28:48.940 --> 28:51.680]  When you see injustice going on, you stay and you fight it.
[28:51.740 --> 28:52.820]  You don't walk away from it.
[28:53.140 --> 28:56.580]  And right now we need you to stay here and fight with us.
[28:56.580 --> 28:58.980]  2-1-2-2-0-9-2-9-5-0.
[28:59.400 --> 29:02.100]  Help make this place what you want it to be.
[29:02.440 --> 29:03.540]  It starts with a phone call.
[29:03.700 --> 29:05.520]  2-1-2-2-0-9-2-9-5-0.
[29:07.080 --> 29:07.980]  Oh, Bernie, I'm sorry.
[29:08.080 --> 29:09.140]  I, I, I, I put you down.
[29:09.360 --> 29:09.940]  I didn't mean to do that.
[29:10.060 --> 29:10.440]  You put me down?
[29:10.500 --> 29:11.180]  No, don't put me down.
[29:11.200 --> 29:11.620]  I'm sorry.
[29:11.840 --> 29:12.320]  I'm really sorry.
[29:12.760 --> 29:14.500]  Were you trying to, were you trying to speak for very long?
[29:14.780 --> 29:15.220]  No, no.
[29:15.300 --> 29:17.280]  The Secret Service tried to put me down, but they didn't succeed.
[29:18.420 --> 29:18.940]  I got it.
[29:19.000 --> 29:28.800]  When you were just mentioning, uh, support and how important it is, uh, I can't tell you how important, uh, uh, support was to me during my ordeal back in 95 and 96.
[29:29.140 --> 29:30.320]  Nine calls on the line.
[29:30.420 --> 29:31.900]  2-1-2-2-0-9-2-9-5-0.
[29:32.880 --> 29:38.260]  I, I don't know if I would have gone on without the, uh, without the moral and emotional support I had from your listeners.
[29:38.420 --> 29:48.500]  That was, being on, being on, off the hook, uh, while I was in the belly of the beast for month after month after month back then, uh, really kept my spirit alive.
[29:48.600 --> 29:58.800]  And I honestly don't know if I would have, would have made it, whether I just would have been a quivering blob at the end of that ordeal, if it, if it hadn't been for, uh, off the hook and his listeners.
[29:59.020 --> 30:01.560]  It just was a tremendous level of support.
[30:01.680 --> 30:19.380]  And talking with Dan Morgan over the weekend at the Dayton Hamvention, where we all were, um, he told me more times than I can remember counting how important, uh, and how valued it was to have your support and your listener support, uh, listening to his case and calling in and,
[30:19.380 --> 30:21.280]  and urging him to, to stay on.
[30:21.400 --> 30:28.380]  So while we may have been defeated, uh, in courts of law, um, I don't think Dan and myself feel that we've been defeated.
[30:28.720 --> 30:32.940]  And it's, uh, it's important to, to keep that, keep that feeling alive.
[30:33.080 --> 30:34.260]  And that's what the show's all about.
[30:34.500 --> 30:42.420]  And you definitely qualify as one of the heroes of this whole thing, as, as well as Dan, uh, for someone who stood up to injustice and really paid the price for it.
[30:42.520 --> 30:44.560]  But you came out strong, you came out stronger.
[30:45.040 --> 30:54.360]  Um, and, uh, you got to convey your story to so many other people and inspire them and hopefully prevent it from happening again.
[30:54.660 --> 31:06.840]  I kind, I kind of look at the, uh, the federal law enforcement authorities, uh, secret service and the folks that, uh, the lawyers that, uh, they tried to put Dan Morgan down is sort of like weak, uh, antibiotics.
[31:07.240 --> 31:09.940]  You know, they make, they make things stronger.
[31:13.500 --> 31:24.200]  Well, that's, uh, maybe not the best analogy, but, uh, uh, uh, you know, for the little guys and, uh, those weak antibiotics out there are just, uh, just, uh, allowing us to, uh, breed in there, get stronger.
[31:24.560 --> 31:35.380]  And if for, for any reason to, if there's any, any reason to give money to the station, it's, it's, you should think about the fact that the secret service called the station and said, don't, don't let Bernie S on.
[31:35.700 --> 31:35.920]  Yeah.
[31:36.060 --> 31:36.580]  Isn't that true?
[31:36.580 --> 31:45.800]  They called, uh, a couple of years ago or when you were in prison and, uh, they, they, they spoke to our general manager and, and demanded tapes, demanded tapes.
[31:46.100 --> 31:47.400]  They couldn't tape the show themselves.
[31:47.400 --> 31:50.980]  It was broadcast on a 50,000 watt radio station, but they want us to give them tapes.
[31:51.600 --> 31:54.340]  And, uh, of course, uh, the radio station would not do that.
[31:54.500 --> 31:57.860]  Well, they could have made a pledge and gotten like t-shirts and things, which are a lot more interesting.
[31:57.860 --> 31:59.060]  I don't think they were interested in that.
[31:59.140 --> 32:00.980]  I think they, they, they wanted to intimidate.
[32:01.100 --> 32:01.860]  And, and think of it.
[32:01.920 --> 32:04.080]  When you call a radio station, you say something like that.
[32:06.580 --> 32:07.380]  Good service, you know?
[32:07.660 --> 32:09.120]  We're going to listen to what they say.
[32:09.360 --> 32:14.040]  And, you know, they would just take you off the air, prevent us from talking to you.
[32:14.420 --> 32:15.840]  That doesn't happen around here.
[32:16.820 --> 32:18.360]  It doesn't happen in that regard.
[32:18.560 --> 32:29.600]  I mean, things happen that are bad, and we have to fight those things, but we're still talking to the people that are fighting in this particular movement, and we want to continue that, and we want to expand that to all the others.
[32:30.200 --> 32:32.120]  Can I make a pledge on the air right now?
[32:32.400 --> 32:35.680]  Hey, if you give $100 at the Bernie S level, you get all the t-shirts.
[32:36.160 --> 32:36.620]  That's right.
[32:36.780 --> 32:37.980]  I've named all the pledges after me.
[32:38.220 --> 32:41.980]  You don't want to give the pledge over the air, because then you'll have to give your credit card number over the air, and we don't want to do that.
[32:42.040 --> 32:42.460]  Yeah, we bet.
[32:43.040 --> 32:45.600]  Well, I will pledge over the air right now for $100.
[32:46.060 --> 32:46.380]  All right.
[32:46.580 --> 32:47.680]  You don't have to send me any premiums.
[32:47.720 --> 32:49.260]  I don't want any premiums.
[32:49.500 --> 32:51.360]  I just think this show is very important.
[32:51.480 --> 32:52.560]  It's got to stay on the air.
[32:52.700 --> 32:54.180]  There's nothing else like it on the air.
[32:54.500 --> 33:00.320]  And it's crucial that people out there understand what's going on, and I think this show does a very good job of doing that.
[33:00.320 --> 33:01.700]  We have four calls on the line.
[33:01.860 --> 33:03.100]  Let's make that 10.
[33:04.260 --> 33:05.560]  212-209-2950.
[33:05.680 --> 33:06.380]  Seemed like a good number.
[33:07.700 --> 33:08.780]  As good as any other number.
[33:08.820 --> 33:09.620]  Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
[33:09.840 --> 33:13.780]  I was just going to find some neat way to, you know, snake in the number again, but you just did that.
[33:13.900 --> 33:14.820]  Ah, well, you can say it again.
[33:14.940 --> 33:15.260]  Go right ahead.
[33:15.440 --> 33:17.660]  212-209-2950.
[33:17.660 --> 33:19.740]  Now, let's take a quick look at news.
[33:20.080 --> 33:26.720]  As 9 o'clock is coming up, we're going to be opening up phones then, and hopefully continuing to take pledges up until 10 o'clock.
[33:26.800 --> 33:28.480]  We have an expanded edition of Off the Hook tonight.
[33:29.360 --> 33:41.980]  Creating a fair playing field for both online and offline businesses will require some level of Internet taxation and the ability by online companies to gather personal user data for advertising purposes.
[33:41.980 --> 33:45.840]  That's according to Senator John Kerry of Massachusetts.
[33:45.840 --> 33:47.060]  He said that today.
[33:47.540 --> 33:58.700]  To help web business survive and thrive, Kerry said he plans to push for a national opt-out privacy policy for all web-based transactions except those involving financial data and medical information.
[33:58.900 --> 34:10.600]  Kerry said he plans to reintroduce a bill he co-sponsored with Senator John McCain and Barbara Boxer that would allow web-based businesses to gather personal information on Internet users for advertising purposes.
[34:10.600 --> 34:12.540]  This is just what we need, isn't it?
[34:12.960 --> 34:15.560]  We need to have more spam out there.
[34:16.060 --> 34:18.060]  Is this a bill allowing them to do this?
[34:18.120 --> 34:19.000]  Yeah, this is a bill...
[34:19.000 --> 34:20.080]  I thought they already did it.
[34:20.160 --> 34:28.100]  It's an opt-out policy, which means basically that you have the option to say you don't want this, but if you don't say anything, then that means you do want it.
[34:28.480 --> 34:28.960]  Wait a minute.
[34:29.140 --> 34:32.280]  The opening premise of that is totally wrong.
[34:32.280 --> 34:34.860]  It's to supposedly level the playing field?
[34:35.100 --> 34:35.360]  Yeah, okay.
[34:35.360 --> 34:41.260]  If I walk into Macy's, they don't ask me, what's your name, what's your age, what's your race, what's your sex, how much money do you make?
[34:41.400 --> 34:41.580]  No.
[34:41.740 --> 34:45.340]  I go in, I say, I want to buy this, here's my money, or here's my credit card.
[34:45.500 --> 34:46.700]  I buy it, I go.
[34:47.500 --> 34:50.020]  Brick-and-mortar retailers is what you're talking about.
[34:50.100 --> 34:51.240]  Brick-and-mortar retailers.
[34:51.360 --> 34:52.240]  That's a term they use.
[34:52.240 --> 35:00.600]  They now use direct mail advertising and other methods to reach customers, and they've already invaded the privacy of most Americans, according to Kerry.
[35:00.920 --> 35:06.380]  That leaves online businesses at a disadvantage if they can't collect information about their customers' buying habits.
[35:06.440 --> 35:09.140]  Here we once again have a premise that's faulty.
[35:09.140 --> 35:19.500]  Just because one set of companies is doing something wrong and evil for which they should rot in hell, we're going to let the electronic corporations do this?
[35:19.500 --> 35:22.380]  Why do you presume that it's wrong and evil and for which it should be wrong and evil?
[35:22.380 --> 35:23.420]  Oh, you don't get junk mail.
[35:23.760 --> 35:25.200]  I get plenty of junk mail.
[35:25.340 --> 35:26.400]  That's not wrong and evil.
[35:26.420 --> 35:30.160]  When I walk into Radio Shack and they ask me my name, yeah, well, I don't get fan letters.
[35:30.680 --> 35:32.200]  Dude, wait till you buy a house.
[35:32.620 --> 35:38.700]  You start getting all sorts of letters from people that you've never met in your life that know everything about the financial transaction.
[35:39.000 --> 35:40.260]  Are you in that sweepstakes?
[35:40.760 --> 35:42.920]  Because they told me I may have already won $10 million.
[35:43.380 --> 35:44.340]  No, I'm not talking about that.
[35:44.440 --> 35:49.440]  I'm talking about they know exactly how much you paid for the house, what interest rate you got.
[35:49.580 --> 35:49.760]  Sure.
[35:50.180 --> 35:52.740]  This is all information that the bank had and sold.
[35:53.000 --> 35:53.160]  Right.
[35:53.460 --> 35:55.580]  The bank sells your unlisted phone number, too.
[35:55.680 --> 35:56.120]  Did you know that?
[35:56.240 --> 35:56.660]  Sure they did.
[35:56.780 --> 35:57.580]  Yeah, they just sell it.
[35:57.600 --> 36:00.300]  They just sell it right out there to anybody who wants to buy it.
[36:00.360 --> 36:01.320]  It's an asset, right?
[36:01.560 --> 36:01.700]  Yeah.
[36:02.120 --> 36:06.560]  If anyone has the private phone numbers of bank executives, we'd sell those.
[36:06.700 --> 36:08.820]  In fact, we'd give them away, so please send them to us.
[36:08.860 --> 36:15.220]  But would you, as a consumer, find enough reason to go to a different bank simply because they would not sell that information?
[36:15.660 --> 36:16.380]  Oh, absolutely.
[36:16.520 --> 36:19.940]  If they would advertise that they respected your privacy enough not to do that, yes.
[36:20.080 --> 36:21.440]  But they don't even tell you that.
[36:21.520 --> 36:24.760]  They don't even say, oh, by the way, we sell your phone number.
[36:24.860 --> 36:26.260]  But did you know your bank does that?
[36:26.420 --> 36:26.580]  Okay.
[36:26.680 --> 36:28.580]  Dear banking industry, this is a hint.
[36:28.780 --> 36:32.780]  People will move to your bank if you decide not to give out privacy information.
[36:33.080 --> 36:37.420]  Yeah, but if they all do the same thing as they continue to do, they have nothing to worry about.
[36:37.580 --> 36:41.900]  See, but these are the companies that are writing the legislation with the lawmakers because they give tons.
[36:42.260 --> 36:43.400]  The companies aren't writing legislation.
[36:43.640 --> 36:44.180]  Oh, they're not?
[36:44.180 --> 36:46.480]  The MPAA didn't write the DMCA?
[36:46.840 --> 36:48.540]  They didn't, like, sit down and help out?
[36:48.600 --> 36:50.340]  The representatives write the legislation.
[36:50.500 --> 36:54.760]  The representatives that you voted for and placed in office that should be looking out for your interests.
[36:55.020 --> 36:56.380]  Oh, we're the ones who voted for them and put them in office.
[36:56.440 --> 37:01.440]  I was under the impression that these corporations that make these huge contributions put people in office.
[37:01.640 --> 37:03.500]  How do they do that?
[37:03.720 --> 37:09.120]  At what point does a corporation, by pledging millions of dollars, get a vote for this person to be elected?
[37:09.120 --> 37:14.020]  Well, by allowing them, by allowing them, by allowing them to have a campaign in the first place.
[37:14.020 --> 37:15.580]  You cannot have a campaign.
[37:15.940 --> 37:16.560]  Have you noticed this?
[37:16.640 --> 37:19.560]  It's not just that millionaires take more of an interest in politics.
[37:20.060 --> 37:23.260]  They are the only ones who can do it because they're the only ones who have the money to do it.
[37:23.340 --> 37:24.040]  Where do they get that money?
[37:24.080 --> 37:26.620]  The people that make the contributions, the corporations that do that.
[37:26.740 --> 37:28.580]  And these are the same ones we're talking about.
[37:28.580 --> 37:32.320]  Forgive me, but weren't you a Nader supporter in the last presidential election?
[37:32.460 --> 37:33.100]  Well, I'm not going to say who I supported him.
[37:33.100 --> 37:35.100]  How much corporate money went...
[37:35.100 --> 37:36.560]  Oh, you're not going to say who you supported.
[37:36.760 --> 37:40.360]  How much corporate money did Ralph Nader accept?
[37:42.080 --> 37:43.560]  No more than a certain amount.
[37:43.700 --> 37:44.800]  I'm not sure what the total.
[37:45.000 --> 37:47.640]  I think no more than $1,000 per contributor.
[37:47.800 --> 37:48.660]  Yeah, I think that's correct.
[37:48.820 --> 37:50.240]  And where did he come in in the polls?
[37:51.740 --> 37:52.480]  Where did he come in?
[37:52.680 --> 37:54.020]  I mean, he came in third, didn't he?
[37:54.420 --> 37:54.800]  All right.
[37:55.140 --> 37:58.020]  So you have the Republican machine and the Democrat machine.
[37:58.020 --> 38:05.220]  And then you have a man who didn't accept a single corporate donation that was completely supported by individuals who, you know, dropped their own money on the table.
[38:05.260 --> 38:06.500]  Who sold out Madison Square Garden and...
[38:06.500 --> 38:07.160]  Exactly.
[38:07.460 --> 38:07.560]  Right.
[38:07.720 --> 38:11.400]  I mean, don't tell me that corporations are the only guys who can write for office.
[38:11.440 --> 38:12.660]  I'm not seeing the point here.
[38:12.760 --> 38:24.280]  His point is that Disney and all the other corporations controlling the news bashed Nader repeatedly every day because he's a threat to the corporate American way.
[38:24.480 --> 38:27.140]  My point is that corporations do not elect people.
[38:27.140 --> 38:30.140]  You, the people of the United States, elect your representatives.
[38:30.540 --> 38:32.140]  You are the one who makes the difference.
[38:32.360 --> 38:35.620]  Just like when you call 212-209-2950.
[38:35.780 --> 38:36.260]  That's real slick.
[38:36.260 --> 38:38.980]  You're making a difference here at WBAI.
[38:39.120 --> 38:41.520]  You're saying, we want what you're putting on the air.
[38:41.540 --> 38:42.520]  But here's the thing, okay?
[38:42.700 --> 38:44.640]  If you don't make $200, we'll throw Isaac off the air.
[38:44.640 --> 38:54.380]  I never got to say, I never got to say that George Bush was the person that I wanted to choose or Gore was the person I wanted to choose.
[38:54.640 --> 38:57.840]  This was a decision made for me by somebody else.
[38:58.000 --> 39:02.900]  I'd never even heard George Bush say a word, but somehow he was the best candidate.
[39:03.020 --> 39:03.520]  Oh, come on.
[39:03.560 --> 39:04.400]  You said plenty of words.
[39:04.400 --> 39:05.620]  They were mocking him for months.
[39:05.800 --> 39:07.560]  Well, after he started speaking, they were, yeah.
[39:07.560 --> 39:10.940]  But how in the world did this person get to that position?
[39:11.380 --> 39:18.320]  Obviously, you only get to that position if you're fed millions of dollars so that you can make a name for yourself and actually be there as a top runner.
[39:18.460 --> 39:20.680]  He was a top runner before the first primary.
[39:20.840 --> 39:22.660]  He was the governor of the state of Texas.
[39:22.820 --> 39:23.020]  Right.
[39:23.020 --> 39:25.920]  I mean, he has a record and people viewed it and said, you know what?
[39:25.960 --> 39:27.220]  He's the best man for the job.
[39:27.480 --> 39:28.440]  But see, our rating...
[39:28.440 --> 39:29.680]  Wait, when did that happen?
[39:29.740 --> 39:32.400]  When did people review that record and say he's the best person?
[39:32.400 --> 39:35.460]  I just recall him being the front runner before the first primary even took place.
[39:37.540 --> 39:37.940]  Yeah.
[39:40.020 --> 39:41.260]  Let's stay away from the nadir.
[39:41.420 --> 39:45.720]  By supporting WBAI, you, the informed consumer...
[39:45.720 --> 39:47.760]  We cruised right past $2,600.
[39:48.620 --> 39:49.700]  Oh, we're at $3,225.
[39:49.780 --> 39:50.340]  That's good.
[39:50.340 --> 39:51.880]  But we want to break $5,000.
[39:51.940 --> 39:53.000]  We usually do about this time.
[39:53.120 --> 39:54.540]  So let's keep those calls coming in.
[39:54.820 --> 39:56.360]  212-209-2950.
[39:56.360 --> 39:59.340]  It's a spirited political debate like this that you will hear only on these airwaves.
[40:00.060 --> 40:01.940]  Because you won't really get...
[40:01.940 --> 40:18.220]  And this is the show that enables you as a member of this democracy now and an informed consumer to make judgments not based on corporate influence, but based on your own intelligence, whatever that may be.
[40:18.280 --> 40:18.740]  Precisely.
[40:18.880 --> 40:20.360]  Let's read some listener mail.
[40:20.500 --> 40:21.980]  I was listening to your 515 program.
[40:22.060 --> 40:22.600]  That was last week.
[40:22.780 --> 40:28.320]  And your conversation about the boy who committed suicide after being suspended for hacking reminded me of an incident that happened to me in high school.
[40:28.320 --> 40:33.460]  I wasn't suspended, but I was brought into the principal's office for creating a batch file on a DOS machine.
[40:33.660 --> 40:35.500]  The machines weren't secured at all.
[40:35.560 --> 40:36.700]  It was DOS, after all.
[40:37.020 --> 40:38.860]  And the batch file didn't actually do anything.
[40:38.860 --> 40:41.320]  I was just playing with ANSI codes for cursor movement.
[40:41.660 --> 40:47.280]  The reason I was called in was that a student or maybe a teacher found the file, saw my name in it, and assumed I was hacking or something.
[40:47.720 --> 40:50.660]  I explained to the principal what it was that I did.
[40:51.080 --> 40:54.940]  And he understood and just told me to hide my toys more carefully next time.
[40:55.100 --> 40:56.140]  This was about eight years ago.
[40:56.280 --> 41:01.560]  I think it's funny that apparently computer literacy in school alumni hasn't improved much in the past ten years at all.
[41:02.040 --> 41:04.020]  If anything, it seems to have gotten much worse.
[41:04.320 --> 41:07.660]  This person is now a systems support engineer in Dallas.
[41:08.100 --> 41:08.480]  Nice.
[41:08.900 --> 41:12.300]  I listened to last week's show and was appalled at the thought of removing Isaac from the show.
[41:12.400 --> 41:13.600]  Okay, let me disperse the ball.
[41:15.120 --> 41:15.720]  Thank you.
[41:15.840 --> 41:16.840]  Thank you, whoever you are.
[41:16.840 --> 41:22.080]  Yeah, that was never something that was brought up except by one or two phone callers.
[41:22.200 --> 41:23.060]  It was a funny thing.
[41:23.360 --> 41:24.140]  It was a funny thing.
[41:24.260 --> 41:26.060]  It's like Laszlo said just now.
[41:26.440 --> 41:32.180]  Yeah, but dude, when you called me on the phone yesterday to be on the show, you're like, I need something better than Isaac rattling on.
[41:32.240 --> 41:33.000]  Yeah, that's what I did.
[41:33.120 --> 41:33.780]  That's what I did.
[41:33.900 --> 41:36.620]  I said, I got to replace...
[41:36.620 --> 41:37.960]  Well, I'm glad to see you.
[41:37.960 --> 41:39.340]  You were just sucking up to Laszlo, right?
[41:39.460 --> 41:43.440]  We'll talk about what's going to happen to Isaac after the show later, not on the air.
[41:44.820 --> 41:46.280]  212-209-2950.
[41:46.280 --> 41:50.920]  I realize you guys were only joking, but the thought of the show without Isaac sent shivers up my spine.
[41:50.920 --> 41:55.700]  I mean, he's the only one who looks at the issues logically and sanely without bringing a bleeding-heart liberal slant on everything.
[41:56.080 --> 41:57.280]  Ooh, I like this person.
[41:57.540 --> 41:59.860]  And what is Isaac's mom's email address there?
[42:00.020 --> 42:00.640]  Yeah, right.
[42:00.960 --> 42:03.700]  If this is a woman, please send a JPEG of yourself.
[42:03.920 --> 42:04.140]  Right.
[42:05.960 --> 42:07.320]  But I think it's wrong.
[42:07.320 --> 42:13.680]  I mean, if you disagree with people, and that's something that I think we need to establish here at the station, is that this is a place to disagree.
[42:14.060 --> 42:24.020]  And while we might have people with far-out crazy viewpoints, whose names I won't mention, they make you think as to why you defend the position that you defend.
[42:24.160 --> 42:25.300]  And that's what it's all about.
[42:25.620 --> 42:29.340]  It's one thing to say something, you know, to say that you support a position.
[42:29.520 --> 42:33.760]  But when someone asks you why, you should be able to go a lot further than just saying what the position is.
[42:33.820 --> 42:38.140]  Which is something that you'll get on the station and very few other places, which is why we need your support.
[42:38.500 --> 42:40.680]  212-209-2950.
[42:40.880 --> 42:55.240]  Do you realize that if there's an artist or a band that is singing against corporate America or against things that a certain corporation doesn't agree with, Clear Channel can keep them out of the major concert venues in the United States because they own them.
[42:55.420 --> 42:55.780]  That's right.
[42:56.060 --> 42:56.300]  That's right.
[42:56.680 --> 42:58.920]  Or the Staples Center and the...
[42:58.920 --> 42:59.160]  What's that?
[42:59.200 --> 43:00.900]  God, I was at that thing two days ago.
[43:01.100 --> 43:01.760]  The Staples Center?
[43:03.100 --> 43:04.520]  Every time I'm in L.A.
[43:04.540 --> 43:10.840]  and I see the Staples Center and I hear people going, hey, I'm going to Staples, that is an office supply store.
[43:10.980 --> 43:16.540]  Yeah, I got these visions of like instead of concrete arches, they're using like really big staples for the rebar.
[43:16.700 --> 43:20.820]  One of the biggest places that the Grateful Dead used to play is called Deer Creek, right?
[43:21.020 --> 43:22.600]  In Indiana, right?
[43:22.820 --> 43:26.060]  It is now called the Verizon Wireless Music Center.
[43:26.180 --> 43:26.760]  Oh, that's all...
[43:27.520 --> 43:28.240]  That's terrible.
[43:28.520 --> 43:28.720]  Right?
[43:28.820 --> 43:29.780]  What is that, MP3?
[43:30.000 --> 43:30.680]  What is that?
[43:31.360 --> 43:34.480]  I guess when an artist is up on stage, it kind of cuts out and...
[43:34.480 --> 43:35.020]  Yeah, exactly.
[43:35.280 --> 43:40.320]  The worst part of it is that they use the same compression algorithms on the Verizon phones that they do for the sound system in the arena.
[43:40.500 --> 43:43.380]  Three calls on the line, 212-209-2950.
[43:44.120 --> 43:46.180]  Here's another letter from a listener.
[43:46.280 --> 43:58.040]  I recently received a message from my ISP saying I had been port scanning and that, quote, if you are aware of any such activity, accidental or otherwise, we ask that you cease it immediately, unquote, since I consider you a reliable source on things like this,
[43:58.220 --> 44:04.520]  strictly from a legal perspective, I realize ISPs have the authority to close my account if they wish.
[44:04.660 --> 44:06.220]  Is mere port scanning illegal?
[44:06.380 --> 44:07.300]  Isaac, what do you say about this?
[44:07.620 --> 44:08.700]  There was a case.
[44:08.980 --> 44:10.540]  This actually went before a judge.
[44:10.700 --> 44:12.380]  I very vaguely remember it.
[44:12.480 --> 44:19.840]  But basically, the ruling was port scanning does not reasonably detract from the service being provided by the remote site.
[44:20.180 --> 44:20.320]  Right.
[44:20.420 --> 44:20.940]  Absolutely not.
[44:20.940 --> 44:28.100]  That is the responsibility of the remote site to deny these sorts of things if it really is concern to them.
[44:28.500 --> 44:39.360]  But that said, it is important to realize also that ISPs can kick you off because your hair is red if they feel like it because that's unfortunately the way they sometimes operate.
[44:39.580 --> 44:41.040]  Internet access is not a right.
[44:41.480 --> 44:42.700]  Well, it is a right, I think.
[44:42.800 --> 44:46.340]  But you don't necessarily have to get it from a particular company.
[44:46.480 --> 44:46.580]  Correct.
[44:46.580 --> 44:48.120]  Good radio programming is not a right.
[44:48.700 --> 44:50.340]  Well, that's the public airwaves.
[44:50.440 --> 44:52.200]  That's something else.
[44:52.300 --> 44:52.560]  Public?
[44:52.720 --> 44:55.640]  That seems odd that two companies own all the airwaves.
[44:55.800 --> 44:56.920]  It doesn't seem very public.
[44:57.160 --> 44:58.360]  See, nobody owns the airwaves.
[44:58.420 --> 45:00.140]  They own some studios and some equipment.
[45:00.380 --> 45:02.880]  But the airwaves are unownable.
[45:03.060 --> 45:04.640]  They're airwaves, for God's sake.
[45:04.860 --> 45:05.120]  You know?
[45:05.420 --> 45:06.720]  You can't own airwaves.
[45:06.820 --> 45:07.160]  They're public.
[45:07.380 --> 45:08.380]  They even go through water.
[45:08.760 --> 45:08.920]  Yeah.
[45:09.060 --> 45:09.880]  They go through everything.
[45:11.760 --> 45:14.900]  212-209-2950 is our phone number.
[45:14.900 --> 45:17.100]  Oh, in 15 minutes, you'll be able to talk to Isaac live.
[45:17.600 --> 45:18.380]  Or any of us.
[45:18.560 --> 45:19.200]  Me live?
[45:19.420 --> 45:19.720]  Wow.
[45:19.720 --> 45:24.080]  I am listening to the May 15th MP3, and I just heard two callers who phoned in to attack Isaac.
[45:24.220 --> 45:25.580]  Yeah, they called in to attack Isaac.
[45:25.740 --> 45:27.240]  What is this preoccupation with me?
[45:27.280 --> 45:29.740]  You had all this fan mail.
[45:29.860 --> 45:30.400]  You saw it.
[45:30.400 --> 45:31.360]  I think it's hate mail.
[45:31.740 --> 45:32.060]  Right.
[45:32.200 --> 45:34.660]  That's from his posting of SaveIsaac.com.
[45:37.580 --> 45:42.020]  In passing, Isaac says something along the lines of, you may well get your wish, implying that he might be leaving.
[45:42.100 --> 45:43.400]  Why would you say a thing like that, Isaac?
[45:43.400 --> 45:44.720]  Oh, it was just...
[45:44.720 --> 45:45.260]  You're not going anywhere.
[45:45.520 --> 45:46.460]  I'm not going anywhere.
[45:46.560 --> 45:47.560]  It was just to raise the stakes.
[45:47.720 --> 45:50.740]  And he got his whole family to stay here, and you'll like it here.
[45:50.940 --> 45:53.120]  It was all for the fun of the moment, you know?
[45:53.500 --> 45:53.980]  Come on, people.
[45:54.280 --> 45:55.660]  Don't take this so seriously.
[45:55.840 --> 45:56.000]  Yeah.
[45:56.140 --> 46:04.920]  But what you should take seriously is your pledge to WBA by calling 212-209-2950, because if you really don't do that, we're not going to be here.
[46:05.260 --> 46:07.280]  I mean, this station will likely cease to exist.
[46:07.480 --> 46:09.200]  Yeah, we've only raised $3,225.
[46:09.200 --> 46:12.420]  Do you know how much money we could make selling commercials in the last two hours?
[46:12.640 --> 46:13.920]  Oh, a fortune.
[46:13.960 --> 46:14.860]  We could have made a fortune.
[46:15.040 --> 46:15.180]  Yeah.
[46:15.700 --> 46:16.720]  Not that we would do that.
[46:16.800 --> 46:17.640]  No, but hey...
[46:17.640 --> 46:18.340]  Well, we may be forced to.
[46:18.340 --> 46:19.340]  We may be forced to.
[46:21.180 --> 46:23.800]  212-209-2950 is our phone number.
[46:24.120 --> 46:27.340]  Where else can you hear information about, well, things like this?
[46:27.640 --> 46:31.080]  Is there no hope for a sequel to Ferris Bueller's Day Off?
[46:31.200 --> 46:40.560]  Schools across the country are adopting computer programs that allow parents to check the Internet daily to see whether their kids skipped class, handed in their homework, and even what they had for lunch.
[46:40.760 --> 46:44.240]  A lot of parents love it because it will help them keep better track of their kids.
[46:44.240 --> 46:50.020]  But a lot of kids, even those who go to class and earn decent grades, think it's creepy.
[46:50.640 --> 46:51.640]  This is the Associated Press.
[46:51.740 --> 46:52.060]  I agree.
[46:52.300 --> 46:53.800]  The Associated Press says it's creepy.
[46:54.260 --> 47:02.000]  Our parents don't need to know everything we do all the time, says Brittany Tucker, a 15-year-old sophomore at Meadowdale High School in Linwood.
[47:02.380 --> 47:03.600]  And we know where she is now.
[47:04.100 --> 47:07.440]  High school is supposed to be a time when you're starting to get out on your own.
[47:07.560 --> 47:11.880]  Besides, it's going to keep students from getting away with some of the stuff even their parents pulled in school.
[47:11.880 --> 47:16.220]  Forget about the 1980s antics of Ferris Bueller, perhaps the most famous truant in movie history.
[47:16.460 --> 47:26.980]  A cooperative representing 277 of Washington State's 296 school districts signed a contract this year to start bringing the technology into schools by fall 2002.
[47:27.720 --> 47:28.600]  Can you believe this?
[47:28.700 --> 47:29.980]  I'll go one step to the side.
[47:30.120 --> 47:39.920]  I find it frightening that parents believe that they cannot trust their children, that they have failed so miserably in instilling values into their children that they need to be constantly monitored like this.
[47:39.920 --> 47:48.360]  Yeah, I totally agree that, you know, parents who believe that are wrong, but they're not the ones getting the software here.
[47:48.520 --> 47:49.860]  It's the schools getting the software.
[47:50.040 --> 47:52.720]  Where are the schools getting the idea that this is going to solve any problems?
[47:52.760 --> 47:55.220]  And then you can raise your children remotely via the internet.
[47:55.900 --> 47:56.820]  That's the next step.
[47:56.820 --> 47:58.460]  What's really great is that you can...
[47:58.460 --> 47:59.520]  Like a Tamagotchi, you know?
[47:59.680 --> 48:02.100]  You can do marketing research on your own kids.
[48:03.080 --> 48:07.440]  In one instance, parents suspected that their middle school child wasn't eating a healthy lunch.
[48:07.640 --> 48:12.980]  Using the program, they found out that the child was buying fruit juice and ice cream every day.
[48:13.200 --> 48:13.460]  Thank you.
[48:13.580 --> 48:13.820]  Oh, yeah.
[48:14.040 --> 48:14.320]  Fruit juice.
[48:14.320 --> 48:15.000]  We have new forms.
[48:16.340 --> 48:16.780]  Yes.
[48:17.160 --> 48:17.740]  Hold on.
[48:17.800 --> 48:18.320]  I lost my place.
[48:18.540 --> 48:18.960]  Apple juice is healthy.
[48:19.500 --> 48:23.220]  They asked administrators to block their kid from buying juice and ice cream.
[48:23.420 --> 48:28.300]  Now, whenever the child shows up at the register, the computer tells the lunch lady, no juice, no ice cream.
[48:30.940 --> 48:32.240]  Isn't juice good for you?
[48:32.380 --> 48:33.920]  I'm just saying that, you know?
[48:34.140 --> 48:44.280]  If anybody is still laboring under the illusion that school is there to educate people to be better citizens instead of there to keep people...
[48:44.280 --> 48:45.080]  Well, that's next.
[48:45.360 --> 48:47.100]  The ultimate form of daycare.
[48:47.400 --> 48:52.560]  Yes, I agree with you, which is why I think the voucher program should continue, that public schools should...
[48:52.560 --> 48:56.520]  Yeah, there should be real competition in all schools, not just public schools.
[48:56.520 --> 48:58.260]  There should be competition instead of...
[48:58.260 --> 49:01.160]  And I don't think I should have to pay taxes to educate children.
[49:01.280 --> 49:03.060]  I think we should have McDonald's in these places.
[49:03.180 --> 49:05.880]  I think that we should pay taxes to educate children.
[49:05.880 --> 49:06.340]  Why not?
[49:06.460 --> 49:07.020]  As you can see...
[49:07.020 --> 49:08.600]  Because we can use corporate funding.
[49:08.740 --> 49:09.960]  Corporate funding is good.
[49:10.220 --> 49:24.460]  Well, if you have the system where you can actually send your child to the school you choose, and you so choose to save 500 bucks a year in your tuition to go to a school that supports McDonald's, then I suppose that's your choice as a parent.
[49:24.740 --> 49:30.660]  In this free country, you're free to do anything you want except not send your children to school.
[49:30.800 --> 49:31.880]  Well, that's a state law.
[49:32.000 --> 49:33.380]  It's not exactly a national thing.
[49:33.700 --> 49:36.820]  Listen, I think it's wrong that I can't have eight wives.
[49:37.660 --> 49:38.400]  Move to Utah.
[49:38.400 --> 49:40.760]  All right, 212-209-2950.
[49:40.940 --> 49:45.600]  As you can see, we have too many things to talk about tonight and not enough idea of where to go next.
[49:45.780 --> 49:51.040]  But basically, this is the place where you're going to hear all kinds of information on different things that are happening.
[49:52.920 --> 50:00.140]  We have some people to thank, lots of people to thank, and we want to see those phone calls light up before we start taking phone calls on the air.
[50:00.240 --> 50:03.300]  So let's see a flurry here, 212-209-2950.
[50:03.300 --> 50:12.800]  So we want to thank, you know, this is crazy because these are brand new forums, and I'm looking for the part where it says, should I read this person's name on the air or not?
[50:13.340 --> 50:14.320]  And I don't see it.
[50:14.420 --> 50:17.140]  I don't think that's one of the things that's there anymore.
[50:17.200 --> 50:17.400]  Oh, yeah.
[50:17.540 --> 50:18.060]  Okay, there it is.
[50:18.120 --> 50:18.740]  It's just not checked.
[50:18.960 --> 50:19.500]  Okay, got it.
[50:19.920 --> 50:21.740]  We want to thank David from Forest Hills.
[50:21.900 --> 50:23.840]  We want to thank Louise from Sunnyside.
[50:24.440 --> 50:27.220]  And we want to thank, no, we don't want to thank them because they don't want to be right on the air.
[50:27.360 --> 50:30.680]  We want to thank Glenn from Carmel, New York.
[50:32.220 --> 50:36.020]  And we want to thank Liam from Reno, Nevada.
[50:36.360 --> 50:38.240]  Thank you very much, Liam, for calling in there.
[50:39.440 --> 50:43.200]  Susan from Pomona, New York.
[50:44.420 --> 50:45.720]  Handwriting is a problem here.
[50:46.580 --> 50:48.400]  Myron from Highland, New York.
[50:49.660 --> 50:50.380]  And George.
[50:50.820 --> 50:51.560]  No, sorry, George.
[50:51.620 --> 50:53.220]  We don't want to read your name because you said no.
[50:53.860 --> 50:54.560]  Sorry about that.
[50:54.660 --> 50:56.160]  I hope that doesn't cause any complications.
[50:57.240 --> 50:59.960]  Eugene from Montclair, New Jersey.
[50:59.960 --> 51:01.520]  Thank you very much for your pledge.
[51:02.320 --> 51:05.220]  We want to thank Neesam from Manhattan.
[51:08.100 --> 51:11.020]  And we want to thank Sean from...
[51:11.020 --> 51:14.320]  Boy, this handwriting is really somewhere in Virginia.
[51:14.680 --> 51:17.560]  Looks like Chesterfield or something like that.
[51:17.600 --> 51:17.900]  I don't know.
[51:18.120 --> 51:18.560]  Somewhere...
[51:18.560 --> 51:19.240]  It's a cigarette.
[51:19.460 --> 51:20.880]  Yeah, somewhere in Virginia.
[51:21.020 --> 51:22.040]  Thank you very much for your pledge.
[51:22.040 --> 51:25.320]  I want to thank Chris from Tempe, Arizona.
[51:26.260 --> 51:28.940]  And Steve from Armonk, New York.
[51:30.180 --> 51:31.440]  Daniel from Eatonton.
[51:32.980 --> 51:34.080]  I think that's in New Jersey.
[51:34.380 --> 51:36.360]  And also Amy from Brooklyn.
[51:37.340 --> 51:39.100]  And Andy from Flushing.
[51:40.420 --> 51:42.620]  And that's not all, but let me take a breath here.
[51:43.260 --> 51:43.940]  Want to hand me a second?
[51:43.980 --> 51:45.320]  Can we get some calls from Europe?
[51:45.320 --> 51:46.200]  Yeah, Europe.
[51:46.300 --> 51:47.580]  What's up with Europe and Asia?
[51:47.620 --> 51:47.880]  Yeah, really.
[51:48.180 --> 51:48.860]  Country code one.
[51:49.020 --> 51:50.340]  With your Euros and all that.
[51:50.520 --> 51:50.740]  Yeah.
[51:51.220 --> 51:52.000]  We want to thank...
[51:52.000 --> 51:53.300]  No, we don't want to thank them.
[51:53.420 --> 51:53.520]  I'm sorry.
[51:53.640 --> 51:55.720]  We want to thank Jeffrey from Mason, Michigan.
[51:55.900 --> 51:56.400]  Hey, Michigan.
[51:56.580 --> 51:57.600]  The grand state of Michigan.
[51:58.200 --> 51:58.900]  The boxing glove.
[51:59.060 --> 52:00.320]  Yeah, you know, driving on the interstate.
[52:00.780 --> 52:01.840]  It was so bumpy.
[52:02.040 --> 52:02.680]  It really was.
[52:02.760 --> 52:03.980]  It was like driving on a dirt road.
[52:04.220 --> 52:05.900]  The 2600 van was very upset.
[52:06.240 --> 52:08.180]  As soon as we hit Ohio, it was smooth.
[52:08.340 --> 52:09.460]  It was just totally smooth.
[52:10.000 --> 52:11.740]  I really wonder what's going on over there.
[52:11.740 --> 52:12.580]  I mean, it's like...
[52:12.580 --> 52:13.520]  That's a crime.
[52:13.700 --> 52:13.920]  You know...
[52:13.920 --> 52:17.200]  I mean, that cannot be allowed to continue like that.
[52:17.320 --> 52:22.440]  That's a crime against humanity, having a city like Detroit exist in its present state.
[52:22.520 --> 52:23.280]  We need to do something.
[52:23.300 --> 52:24.120]  Let's sell it to Canada.
[52:24.300 --> 52:26.740]  You know, that whole melting pot thing that you were talking about.
[52:26.740 --> 52:48.980]  Like when Ford was big on this, and they would have a big, big, giant cauldron on stage when their factory workers would graduate, and they would walk in dressed in their traditional ethnic garb, and this giant thing would boil over in a huge thing, and then they would walk out identical Americans in suits,
[52:49.180 --> 52:50.920]  and it was the great melting pot.
[52:50.920 --> 52:57.040]  And, you know, the first thing that Ford taught his employees was to say, I am a good American.
[52:57.660 --> 53:00.100]  Yeah, we've got a few things to say about Ford.
[53:00.320 --> 53:01.640]  Well, let me finish thanking people first.
[53:01.980 --> 53:03.080]  Hudson from New York.
[53:03.260 --> 53:04.540]  Thank you very much for your question.
[53:04.560 --> 53:05.600]  Hudson from Westbury.
[53:06.620 --> 53:07.660]  The man's name is Hudson from New York?
[53:07.660 --> 53:08.980]  Don't make fun of people's names.
[53:09.620 --> 53:10.400]  Who's making it really?
[53:10.480 --> 53:10.940]  I'm wondering.
[53:11.280 --> 53:13.420]  I'm questioning whether his name is really Hudson.
[53:13.540 --> 53:14.600]  Yes, his name really is Hudson.
[53:14.600 --> 53:17.860]  Well, I thought you were confusing the city with a name, but evidently you're not.
[53:17.940 --> 53:18.200]  Well...
[53:18.200 --> 53:18.940]  Why would I do that?
[53:19.080 --> 53:19.440]  I don't know.
[53:19.560 --> 53:20.280]  I've never done that before.
[53:20.280 --> 53:21.480]  Or Gordon from Jamaica.
[53:21.720 --> 53:22.760]  You want to question me on that one, too?
[53:22.900 --> 53:23.020]  No.
[53:23.380 --> 53:23.800]  Jamaica the country?
[53:24.440 --> 53:25.460]  Jamaica the country?
[53:25.480 --> 53:27.180]  Yeah, let's make fun of the place people live now.
[53:27.520 --> 53:28.760]  That'll ensure more calls.
[53:29.560 --> 53:30.520]  Dino from Brooklyn.
[53:30.640 --> 53:31.740]  Thank you very much for your pledge.
[53:31.940 --> 53:33.580]  Laura from Long Beach, New York.
[53:33.780 --> 53:34.760]  Thank you for your pledge.
[53:35.340 --> 53:39.300]  And Daniel from Alexandria, Virginia.
[53:39.520 --> 53:41.260]  We just weren't being Eurocentric.
[53:41.480 --> 53:43.560]  We were looking for Caribbean contributors.
[53:44.500 --> 53:46.740]  Thank you very much, everybody, for all those pledges.
[53:46.880 --> 53:47.760]  Please keep them coming in.
[53:47.880 --> 53:49.800]  212-209-2950.
[53:49.800 --> 53:51.180]  How much does Laura give?
[53:51.820 --> 53:53.480]  We can't give out information like that.
[53:53.480 --> 53:57.740]  No, because that's directly tied to my bank account.
[53:57.900 --> 53:58.300]  Is she single?
[53:58.960 --> 53:59.360]  No.
[53:59.980 --> 54:02.820]  That may be so, but we still cannot give out that information.
[54:02.960 --> 54:04.720]  It's something you'll have to find out on your own.
[54:07.460 --> 54:07.860]  Yes.
[54:08.380 --> 54:10.020]  We are going to start taking phone calls.
[54:10.140 --> 54:10.460]  Just a moment.
[54:10.600 --> 54:13.320]  I'm just going to start saying the phone number over and over again until somebody hits me.
[54:13.320 --> 54:17.620]  212-209-2950.
[54:17.820 --> 54:23.400]  Just firing you guys a quick email, let you know that I am a Ford shareholder and I find it absurd what they are pursuing in this case.
[54:23.560 --> 54:31.900]  Unfortunately, my holdings in the company are negligible in the grand scheme of things, but I did fire off a letter to their shareholders relations department through their website and thought I'd copy you.
[54:31.980 --> 54:34.480]  Not sure if there is much else I can do, but let me know if I can be of assistance.
[54:34.640 --> 54:41.020]  This person wrote a very nice letter to the Ford people as a stockholder and hopefully it will be read by somebody.
[54:41.800 --> 54:45.720]  This person wrote to Ford and got a reply.
[54:45.940 --> 54:46.760]  Listen to this reply.
[54:47.740 --> 54:52.180]  Dear Michelle, thank you for contacting Ford Motor Company on May 16th.
[54:52.240 --> 54:56.800]  We appreciate the time you've taken to write us regarding the alleged lawsuit involving 2,600.
[54:57.800 --> 54:58.560]  Isn't that nice?
[54:58.640 --> 54:59.620]  It's an alleged lawsuit.
[54:59.620 --> 54:59.900]  Alleged lawsuit.
[55:00.220 --> 55:03.220]  That was all in my mind going over there to Detroit and seeing the judge.
[55:03.940 --> 55:05.760]  Dennis, thank you for contacting Ford Motor Company.
[55:05.900 --> 55:07.240]  We pride ourselves, blah, blah, blah.
[55:07.480 --> 55:08.520]  We regret the circumstances.
[55:08.520 --> 55:09.700]  We've prompted you to contact us.
[55:09.780 --> 55:11.760]  However, we hope this doesn't tarnish our fine history.
[55:12.180 --> 55:14.780]  Well, you know, their fine history really isn't all that fine.
[55:15.280 --> 55:17.080]  Here's something that someone else wrote in.
[55:17.220 --> 55:18.940]  I was just reading over the stuff about the U.S.
[55:19.000 --> 55:23.600]  court case against you guys and couldn't help wonder which is more tarnishing to a trademark.
[55:23.740 --> 55:30.500]  The particulars of your case are the fact that the founder of the company, Henry Ford, wrote an anti-Semitic paper entitled The International Jew.
[55:30.920 --> 55:35.000]  This document is even redistributed by the Aryan Nations with a forward by one of its members.
[55:35.280 --> 55:36.000]  Why is that relevant?
[55:36.360 --> 55:37.440]  Why is that relevant?
[55:37.440 --> 55:42.200]  Why is it relevant that the founder of a Ford Motor Company was a Nazi sympathizer?
[55:42.240 --> 55:43.660]  I'll leave you to ponder that one, Isaac.
[55:43.780 --> 55:44.580]  It's been 50 years.
[55:45.160 --> 55:47.800]  The only person to tarnished the Ford name was Henry Ford himself.
[55:47.800 --> 55:50.240]  He was a supporter of Adolf Hitler in Nazi Germany.
[55:50.400 --> 55:53.680]  Ford was an avowed anti-Semite who wrote a pamphlet entitled The International Jew.
[55:53.780 --> 55:56.600]  Much of the material taken from the infamous tract, The Protocols of the Elders of Zion.
[55:56.920 --> 55:58.420]  Yeah, that's actually the other way around.
[55:58.540 --> 56:00.020]  Hitler was actually a fan of Ford.
[56:01.040 --> 56:02.360]  Yeah, I think you're right, actually.
[56:07.440 --> 56:19.500]  It, you know, was all about the eugenicists movement here in the United States and a very interesting 19th century history, which is, of course, has been stricken from the entire school curriculum.
[56:19.720 --> 56:21.160]  As so many things are.
[56:21.380 --> 56:26.420]  Yeah, that's like when you go to the Coca-Cola Museum, they don't have any section there that shows them putting blow in that stuff.
[56:26.420 --> 56:29.380]  You need to acknowledge the good things and the bad things.
[56:29.500 --> 56:33.020]  And I think we're about to do just that when we start taking phone calls in just a moment or two.
[56:33.180 --> 56:34.560]  212-209-2950.
[56:34.720 --> 56:41.820]  We're about to start our little report from the listeners so we can hear from you people out there as to just what's on your minds and what's going on.
[56:42.260 --> 56:51.560]  First, let's take a quick musical break and remember to show support for all of us because we all stand together and that's what matters.
[56:51.840 --> 56:52.680]  We'll be right back.
[56:55.420 --> 57:02.180]  We'll be right back.
[01:20.470 --> 01:23.750]  I don't want to be rejected.
[01:25.670 --> 01:27.390]  I don't want to be denied.
[01:28.070 --> 01:33.930]  And it's not my mission to... that I've opened up your eyes.
[01:40.440 --> 01:41.900]  Freedom is given.
[01:42.280 --> 01:43.740]  Speak how you feel.
[01:44.220 --> 01:45.600]  I am the freedom.
[01:46.120 --> 01:47.380]  How do you feel?
[01:47.720 --> 01:49.280]  Like a light on my face.
[02:01.810 --> 02:03.010]  It's a kiss.
[02:03.590 --> 02:04.890]  I am hurting.
[02:05.410 --> 02:08.450]  That will never be devoted.
[02:09.190 --> 02:10.370]  It's a kiss.
[02:11.530 --> 02:12.250]  I am hurting.
[02:12.810 --> 02:15.830]  And we'll never be devoted.
[02:16.710 --> 02:17.750]  It's a kiss.
[02:18.570 --> 02:19.590]  I am hurting.
[02:20.230 --> 02:23.250]  And we'll never be devoted.
[02:24.090 --> 02:25.230]  It's a kiss.
[02:26.170 --> 02:27.110]  I am hurting.
[02:41.760 --> 02:45.020]  And you're listening to Off the Hook here on WBAI New York.
[02:45.040 --> 02:49.580]  A special expanded edition of Off the Hook as we go all the way up until 10 o'clock.
[02:49.580 --> 02:52.300]  Hopefully getting support from listeners out there.
[02:52.500 --> 02:54.860]  Calling 212-209-2950.
[02:55.080 --> 02:56.620]  So far we've gotten a whole lot of calls.
[02:56.740 --> 02:57.700]  And we're up to $3,800.
[02:58.440 --> 03:03.180]  And we'd like to hit $5,000 if that's at all possible.
[03:03.200 --> 03:05.920]  And I think it is with the support of people out there.
[03:06.020 --> 03:08.320]  It's all one phone call after another.
[03:09.020 --> 03:24.540]  And we're going to be spending the remainder of our time, or as much of it as we have, taking phone calls from listeners, showing whatever opinions they may have on particular subjects that affect them, whether it's stuff related to Off the Hook, stuff related to the radio station,
[03:24.660 --> 03:26.200]  stuff related to life in general.
[03:26.420 --> 03:31.420]  But mostly we want to know that you're out there, that you care, that you're listening.
[03:31.420 --> 03:37.240]  And tell us what this place means to you, and how you'll be supporting it.
[03:37.280 --> 03:39.660]  I assume you'll be supporting in some way.
[03:39.840 --> 03:47.000]  Maybe not exactly the way that I want you to support it right now, but obviously we all agree on something.
[03:47.180 --> 03:49.780]  We all agree that this place is valuable and that it matters.
[03:50.620 --> 03:52.480]  And let's go with that premise.
[03:52.960 --> 03:56.840]  Now, before we start, John here has an interest.
[03:56.900 --> 04:02.100]  I don't know why you're carrying this around with you, but you happen to have something about Hitler.
[04:02.740 --> 04:07.840]  We were just talking about Ford and Hitler and the relation between them.
[04:09.680 --> 04:11.680]  And you had it open before.
[04:11.840 --> 04:14.300]  Well, I passed it around so everybody could see it.
[04:14.460 --> 04:21.360]  It's a book, and it's a paper book, so there's no encryption on it or anything like that.
[04:21.360 --> 04:23.200]  I can pass it around with my friends.
[04:24.120 --> 04:25.240]  They'll lose your place.
[04:25.420 --> 04:26.880]  I did lose my place, though.
[04:26.880 --> 04:29.860]  Well, it's a 500-page book, and the reason I'm carrying it...
[04:29.860 --> 04:33.380]  But you opened it up two seconds after we went off mic, so obviously you found it quickly.
[04:33.580 --> 04:34.740]  I did find it quickly.
[04:34.900 --> 04:42.340]  Well, it's called The Underground History of American Education, A Schoolteacher's Intimate Investigation to the Problem of Modern Schooling.
[04:42.340 --> 04:52.300]  And he talks about the great industrialists at the turn of the century, Ford, Rockefeller, Carnegie, and there's a little quote that...
[04:52.300 --> 04:53.780]  It's that little quote we're after.
[04:53.960 --> 04:55.160]  Yeah, it's the little quote that's...
[04:55.160 --> 04:56.600]  It's a quote that...
[04:57.420 --> 04:58.000]  Hold on.
[04:58.680 --> 04:59.320]  Here it is.
[04:59.460 --> 04:59.600]  Okay.
[04:59.860 --> 05:00.400]  Here we go.
[05:00.400 --> 05:05.660]  I regard Henry Ford as my inspiration, Hitler told the Detroit newspaper in 1931.
[05:06.220 --> 05:15.940]  In July 1938, automaker Ford received the Grand Cross of the Golden Eagle, the highest award the German government could give a foreigner.
[05:16.520 --> 05:18.700]  Lenin acknowledged his debt to Ford's genius.
[05:21.120 --> 05:22.540]  You know, that's like...
[05:22.540 --> 05:23.080]  Yeah, you know...
[05:23.080 --> 05:31.300]  I mean, that in itself, you can't really stop Hitler from admiring you, but you can stop yourself writing papers like The International Jew and being anti-Semitic.
[05:31.380 --> 05:32.160]  That you can stop.
[05:33.380 --> 05:36.640]  So, as far as that goes, it's a real pleasure to be sued by these bastards.
[05:36.860 --> 05:48.020]  Okay, but why should the actions of a founder that has very little to do with the actual legal action that's being pending against you have an effect on that particular latter event?
[05:48.700 --> 05:49.460]  It's just history.
[05:49.740 --> 05:50.500]  Yeah, it's history.
[05:50.640 --> 05:51.240]  I mean, it's basically...
[05:51.240 --> 05:51.540]  I think...
[05:51.540 --> 05:55.920]  It tells you what they're founded, where they got their money from, how they got started in this world.
[05:55.940 --> 06:00.280]  Yes, but I'm pretty sure that the present, you know, heads of Ford would not agree with their founder.
[06:00.280 --> 06:02.720]  It's called, in legal terms, Fruit of the Poison Tree.
[06:03.000 --> 06:03.140]  Right.
[06:03.140 --> 06:03.700]  I see.
[06:03.820 --> 06:04.040]  Yes.
[06:04.340 --> 06:05.500]  I've been hit with that one a few times.
[06:05.660 --> 06:06.700]  But I think you have enough...
[06:06.700 --> 06:10.560]  If you think that the Ford Foundation has deviated, you know...
[06:10.560 --> 06:12.020]  This isn't the Ford Foundation.
[06:12.160 --> 06:14.320]  We're talking about Ford the Motor Company.
[06:14.460 --> 06:15.480]  Where do they get their money?
[06:16.180 --> 06:17.020]  From the Ford Foundation?
[06:17.020 --> 06:22.620]  I think you have enough to, you know, vilify the Ford Motor Company without having to resort to this kind of thing.
[06:22.620 --> 06:22.920]  I don't...
[06:22.920 --> 06:23.540]  I'm not resorting.
[06:23.620 --> 06:27.240]  They're the ones who resorted to, you know, to Nazism and things like that.
[06:27.320 --> 06:28.140]  I'm just reporting it.
[06:28.360 --> 06:29.420]  I'm reporting, you know...
[06:29.420 --> 06:34.200]  In case you think that this is a good old apple pie American corporation, you know, that has...
[06:35.120 --> 06:36.400]  You know, everybody supporting them.
[06:36.460 --> 06:37.040]  Well, they don't.
[06:37.080 --> 06:37.940]  It's not quite that...
[06:37.940 --> 06:38.560]  Yes, go ahead.
[06:38.600 --> 06:39.340]  You don't have to wave like that.
[06:41.060 --> 06:41.540]  Just speak.
[06:41.540 --> 06:53.140]  No, but see, Isaac's also the person that would argue that, you know, the Republicans aren't sending a clear message by kicking off George Bush's campaign at a university that doesn't allow blacks and whites to...
[06:53.140 --> 06:55.520]  Okay, I'm going to stop you guys right there because...
[06:55.520 --> 06:58.780]  No, I have to stop you guys there because right now you're on listeners' time, all right?
[06:58.960 --> 07:05.480]  And rather than do the thing of cutting listeners off, I'm going to cut you guys off so we can put the listeners on because they've been waiting patiently.
[07:05.480 --> 07:09.800]  At least I assume they've been waiting patiently because we can't see any lights on the phone.
[07:10.080 --> 07:12.360]  So, I'm going to assume they're all lit.
[07:12.840 --> 07:15.340]  That's really annoying that we can't see how many calls we have.
[07:15.880 --> 07:17.380]  Either that or we have no calls at all.
[07:17.480 --> 07:18.580]  No, that's not true because Bernie S.
[07:18.680 --> 07:19.340]  is still on the line, right?
[07:20.300 --> 07:20.700]  Bernie?
[07:20.980 --> 07:21.300]  Oh.
[07:21.520 --> 07:22.160]  Oh, he's gone.
[07:22.280 --> 07:22.440]  Okay.
[07:22.960 --> 07:23.980]  Maybe we don't have any calls.
[07:25.280 --> 07:31.480]  212-209-2900 is the number to call in, but we also want to see the other line light up a lot.
[07:31.600 --> 07:34.320]  We have three calls on 212-209-2950.
[07:34.320 --> 07:41.320]  Oh, it's vital that you show your support to this particular radio program, to this particular portion of this radio program.
[07:41.560 --> 07:42.260]  Picture this.
[07:42.500 --> 07:49.060]  We open up the phones and we talk about what's on people's minds and hundreds of people call in to support that.
[07:49.180 --> 07:49.800]  What does that say?
[07:49.920 --> 07:50.860]  That sends a message.
[07:51.120 --> 07:54.400]  You know, last time, last pledge drive, we did something rather significant.
[07:54.400 --> 07:57.840]  We pledged a matching fund to the listener lawsuits.
[07:58.060 --> 08:04.960]  Many listeners are involved in these lawsuits against Pacifica to help democratize and bring things back to the way they were.
[08:05.540 --> 08:11.880]  And all of a sudden, the phone lines lit up and we got something like $9,000 in matching funds.
[08:11.920 --> 08:13.300]  We had to cough that up ourselves.
[08:13.980 --> 08:18.960]  And it was no small task doing that, but it sent a powerful message that there are people out there.
[08:19.060 --> 08:20.800]  They do care and they will show support.
[08:22.360 --> 08:28.200]  So I think the key here is for us to show respect and I ask that the listeners show respect as well.
[08:28.400 --> 08:36.860]  I don't want to hear any personal attacks on anybody and I will defend anybody who's personally attacked and we won't continue along those lines, including you, Isaac.
[08:36.980 --> 08:38.460]  I'll defend you if you're personally attacked.
[08:38.580 --> 08:38.900]  Absolutely.
[08:39.160 --> 08:40.580]  I appreciate it.
[08:40.620 --> 08:41.920]  Unless I'm the one doing the attacking.
[08:42.120 --> 08:42.520]  Well, okay.
[08:42.520 --> 08:43.880]  You can't expect me to defend you then.
[08:44.420 --> 08:44.860]  You're allowed.
[08:45.120 --> 08:45.680]  Come on, sir.
[08:45.680 --> 08:48.540]  All the corporations are self-policing.
[08:48.700 --> 08:49.400]  Why can't you...
[08:49.400 --> 08:51.780]  If you want to attack anybody, you can attack us in the room.
[08:51.920 --> 08:55.940]  You can attack us personally because we're here to defend ourselves, but I won't have people being attacked who aren't here.
[08:56.040 --> 08:58.360]  Now, if you want to talk about policies and things like that, that's fine.
[08:59.380 --> 09:08.420]  And again, I ask that people limit their remarks to a couple of minutes so we don't have long speeches and so that other people have a chance to talk and show their opinions.
[09:08.620 --> 09:15.180]  And again, I really have to implore that if you like what we're doing right now, please show that by pledging as well.
[09:15.320 --> 09:17.740]  212-209-2950.
[09:18.100 --> 09:18.260]  All right.
[09:18.360 --> 09:22.900]  Now, this is great because there's no lights lit, but I'm just going to pick one over here and...
[09:22.900 --> 09:23.500]  Look at the draw.
[09:23.780 --> 09:24.500]  Let's see what happens.
[09:25.580 --> 09:26.140]  Good evening.
[09:26.260 --> 09:26.740]  You're on the air.
[09:27.160 --> 09:27.880]  Oh, my God.
[09:27.880 --> 09:28.360]  It's me.
[09:28.680 --> 09:29.340]  Yes, it's you.
[09:29.680 --> 09:30.860]  We can't even see you.
[09:30.960 --> 09:31.440]  What luck.
[09:31.640 --> 09:35.480]  I don't even know what line to hang up on, too, because I don't see it.
[09:35.780 --> 09:36.280]  I've been...
[09:36.280 --> 09:37.740]  Yeah, the lines are all jammed.
[09:37.840 --> 09:39.560]  It's getting busy signals for the last 20 minutes.
[09:39.680 --> 09:40.020]  Oh, okay.
[09:40.120 --> 09:40.880]  Well, I guess that's good then.
[09:40.980 --> 09:43.100]  It's very hard to get through to you, so people are calling.
[09:43.180 --> 09:43.480]  Absolutely.
[09:43.700 --> 09:47.680]  Now, I wanted to say, Emmanuel, really support your show.
[09:47.680 --> 09:50.260]  And I've been a member of the station for 18 years.
[09:50.460 --> 09:51.980]  I've supported the station.
[09:52.100 --> 09:53.360]  You want to know what it means to me?
[09:53.540 --> 09:55.080]  It's meant a great deal to me.
[09:55.160 --> 09:59.260]  I've volunteered my time there many, many times over the years.
[09:59.400 --> 10:05.280]  I've donated hundreds of dollars a year for many years to help pay for the station and build the station.
[10:05.940 --> 10:12.200]  You know, I've done many other volunteer efforts and gone to lots of fundraising events and so forth for many, many years.
[10:12.200 --> 10:13.600]  So the station means a lot to me.
[10:14.100 --> 10:20.640]  And I think many, many of the people who are working and fighting right now to save the station feel the same way as I do.
[10:20.740 --> 10:38.460]  Our longtime, very loyal supporters who've built and paid for the station for years and are extremely distressed and upset about what's going on right now and what has been going on these last few years, which is presently now destroying BAI or, you know,
[10:38.560 --> 10:41.540]  a slow process of gradual destruction that we see going on.
[10:41.580 --> 10:46.940]  And we finally are, you know, saying that we just can't allow this to go on any longer.
[10:47.260 --> 10:50.020]  You know, we've seen what has happened to the other stations.
[10:51.000 --> 10:57.140]  So it's quite obvious what the rulers of Pacifica, who've hijacked the national board, what they're up to.
[10:57.260 --> 11:05.700]  We know very well what they're up to because we've seen what they've done to all the other stations, including the horrendous attacks against the Berkeley station in 1999.
[11:06.000 --> 11:07.220]  So now it's hitting us here.
[11:07.520 --> 11:08.000]  Okay.
[11:08.020 --> 11:09.120]  What do you suggest?
[11:09.120 --> 11:10.780]  What do you suggest that people do?
[11:10.920 --> 11:15.060]  Well, there are several things that are going on that I think many more listeners should help out.
[11:15.060 --> 11:19.020]  For one, there's the lawsuits that need to be supported and helped.
[11:19.120 --> 11:21.760]  Number two, there's the constant public protest.
[11:21.960 --> 11:28.320]  The more listeners get involved in public protest and show opposition, that we are the ones that want to save the station.
[11:28.540 --> 11:35.160]  There's been quite a lot of defamation against us these last week or so, saying that we're trying to destroy the station.
[11:35.240 --> 11:42.880]  We're the listeners who built this station, and we're so offended by these constant attacks that say we're trying to close down the station.
[11:42.880 --> 11:44.520]  Nothing could be further from the truth.
[11:44.700 --> 11:55.060]  It is the people who have taken over and hijacked the station and the board who are destroying it, and we're trying to save it by forcing them to address these demands finally.
[11:55.360 --> 11:59.760]  They've ignored constant protests by thousands and thousands of listeners.
[11:59.980 --> 12:06.700]  So now we've come to the point where we're forced to do a withholding of our funds, and we regret having to do that.
[12:06.700 --> 12:11.880]  But it's the only way to force them to address these demands, which they've been consistently ignoring.
[12:13.540 --> 12:16.160]  We want the censorship stopped at the station.
[12:16.400 --> 12:20.500]  We want the people who've been fired and banned to be reinstated.
[12:20.780 --> 12:29.220]  We want the gag rule ended, especially since it's very one-sidedly enforced, this gag rule.
[12:29.220 --> 12:33.680]  We want the corporate people who've hijacked the board to resign immediately.
[12:33.720 --> 12:49.420]  We've already pressured one of them to resign, Michael Palmer, who is the guy who wrote the infamous email exposing how they're planning to sell the stations, which we know eventually that's what they're up to once they've sufficiently destroyed the station and degraded it.
[12:49.420 --> 12:51.340]  But then they're, you know, they're planning to sell it.
[12:51.460 --> 12:55.060]  But that guy finally resigned after significant pressure.
[12:55.300 --> 13:00.560]  So there's a website, wbaiaction.org, that people can contact.
[13:00.900 --> 13:03.980]  There's another website, the pacificacampaign.org.
[13:04.200 --> 13:12.980]  So if people contact these websites, wbaiaction.org and pacificacampaign.org, they can find out more about what they can do.
[13:12.980 --> 13:21.540]  So we need more and more listeners to get involved in this, to support the boycott, to force the management there to address these demands, finally.
[13:21.860 --> 13:29.920]  We want people reinstated who've been fired and banned under this reign of terror, this reign of tyranny that's been going on the last five months.
[13:29.920 --> 13:40.020]  Don't you think that a boycott, though, a listener boycott of fundraising might backfire and might wind up with the station having no money to survive?
[13:40.020 --> 13:41.600]  And then what happens then?
[13:41.760 --> 13:42.320]  More incentive.
[13:42.520 --> 13:55.200]  Well, what we're saying is that if they can address these demands positively and adequately, then there will be a huge amount of money that thousands of concerned and loyal listeners will donate.
[13:55.340 --> 13:56.660]  So there is the money there.
[13:56.900 --> 14:04.760]  We just want to show that we are the people who do support the station and do not want to destroy it.
[14:04.760 --> 14:12.140]  But there is no other way, it seems, at this point, to get them to address these demands because the situation is getting constantly worse.
[14:12.300 --> 14:28.600]  Now they're brutally attacking Amy Goodman almost every day, criticizing her like crazy when she's one of the people who has done so much work to build and support this Pacifica network, and BAI in particular, with all her work for the last 15-so years.
[14:28.960 --> 14:30.760]  And now they're vilifying Amy Goodman.
[14:30.860 --> 14:35.060]  They've taken her show off the air, Democracy Now!, and who knows if it's going to be back.
[14:35.160 --> 14:36.220]  Well, from what I understand...
[14:36.220 --> 14:37.560]  One of the most popular shows on the station.
[14:37.720 --> 14:37.880]  Right.
[14:37.960 --> 14:43.240]  From what I understand, the show is on hiatus during the fundraiser.
[14:43.240 --> 14:45.160]  If I'm wrong on that, someone please correct me.
[14:45.160 --> 14:47.460]  But I agree.
[14:47.460 --> 14:51.680]  It's one of my favorite programs, and I think the way Amy is being treated is atrocious, to say the least.
[14:52.340 --> 14:57.080]  I just don't agree that withholding funds is the way to make the statement.
[14:57.240 --> 15:01.700]  I think, you know, massive support in various other forums, such as demonstrations.
[15:02.520 --> 15:05.500]  That's one way to show that you're out there and that you count.
[15:06.180 --> 15:17.480]  But I also think it's important to show that you, you know, you support certain programs, you support the radio station in existence, and just not being there.
[15:17.540 --> 15:19.660]  You see, we can't see you if you're not there.
[15:19.860 --> 15:20.820]  That's the point I'm trying to make.
[15:20.860 --> 15:25.400]  We're constantly calling in and writing in and sending letters and faxes, saying, look, we want to support the station.
[15:25.400 --> 15:26.180]  We will pledge.
[15:26.300 --> 15:36.300]  If you do what is right, if you stop this reign of terror, stop this censor shop, stop these banning, firing, stop corporatizing, stop mainstreaming, you know, the stations...
[15:36.300 --> 15:41.180]  But if the company, but if they can't pay... I'm sorry, but if they can't pay their bills, it's even more reason to get rid of this place.
[15:41.220 --> 15:44.500]  They should give in to the demands then, and then they'll get all the money they need.
[15:44.620 --> 15:44.840]  Yeah.
[15:45.120 --> 15:47.120]  Actually, can we move on to another call?
[15:47.260 --> 15:47.320]  All right.
[15:47.320 --> 15:48.900]  Because we want to give other people a chance.
[15:49.020 --> 15:50.080]  But here's the thing.
[15:50.180 --> 15:52.040]  I've got a personal problem with this.
[15:53.060 --> 15:59.220]  The word demand, I mean, yeah, I know people are upset, I know people are emotional, but when... I got a letter, okay, I got a letter.
[15:59.220 --> 16:01.620]  In fact, I think a lot of producers got this letter from somebody.
[16:01.620 --> 16:05.320]  I think it's just someone who is concerned, and I can understand that.
[16:05.580 --> 16:08.780]  I'm a Pacifica listener who has in the past contributed regularly to Pacifica.
[16:08.840 --> 16:13.460]  I oppose and demand the abolition of the on-air policy, Pacifica management, et cetera, et cetera.
[16:13.780 --> 16:15.840]  I oppose the anti-democratic actions.
[16:17.120 --> 16:21.500]  And it goes on with a list of things that the person opposes, which is all fine and good.
[16:23.000 --> 16:24.740]  But it's just the tone of this.
[16:24.860 --> 16:29.760]  Even though I agree with what the person is saying, the tone is such that it makes me want to disagree.
[16:30.320 --> 16:30.400]  You know?
[16:30.520 --> 16:36.880]  And basically, this person is requesting a response, and he gives a deadline.
[16:36.880 --> 16:41.880]  He says, I must have your response by Friday, May 18th, which of course I missed because I wasn't around.
[16:42.620 --> 16:47.020]  Will you now by your response to this letter publicly pledge to support the goals of a listener boycott?
[16:47.760 --> 16:51.660]  Will you by your response to this letter publicly pledge to support the boycott goals?
[16:51.660 --> 17:01.100]  Will you, by response to this letter, publicly pledge to refrain from airing or allowing to be aired any program produced by you during vacated airtime of anyone terminated for his expression in opposition?
[17:01.880 --> 17:12.120]  I will count your non-response or any response other than unequivocable yes as a no response and a commitment to support the pro-censorship and anti-democratic policies of Pacifica Management.
[17:12.300 --> 17:13.620]  Is that opt-out or opt-in?
[17:15.560 --> 17:23.740]  I opted not to answer because this is, you know, even though I agree with the sentiments here, the way it's being phrased is offensive.
[17:23.740 --> 17:27.600]  Well, the difference between a request and a demand is pretty much plain to anyone.
[17:27.780 --> 17:33.660]  The number to keep this station on the air, by the way, is 212-209-2950.
[17:33.660 --> 17:41.300]  It would be nice if every single call that we take, we get at least one or two other calls on the pledge line.
[17:41.300 --> 17:47.060]  Because that will tell me that people appreciate being heard and that it does matter, all right?
[17:47.260 --> 17:55.200]  Now, I want to read something else that I got, too, which is kind of distressing to me, or a part of it, anyway, because it went on for pretty long.
[17:55.280 --> 17:59.980]  This person is suggesting calling up the pledge line with a program called Dialpad.com.
[18:00.520 --> 18:02.880]  I've tried calling back dozens and dozens of times.
[18:03.000 --> 18:04.340]  So far, the result has always been the same.
[18:04.340 --> 18:06.780]  I'm able to hear the people pick up, but they can't hear me.
[18:06.860 --> 18:08.580]  They answer the phone and say, may I take you a pledge?
[18:08.580 --> 18:10.760]  But even when I shout, they can't hear me.
[18:11.280 --> 18:20.100]  And this person basically is suggesting that everybody call in and try this program out and call dozens and dozens and hundreds of times.
[18:20.400 --> 18:22.280]  I mean, what are you doing with this?
[18:22.360 --> 18:23.800]  You're annoying people.
[18:24.100 --> 18:24.940]  I mean, what happened?
[18:25.020 --> 18:27.720]  What happened when we bombed Yugoslavia, okay?
[18:27.880 --> 18:34.820]  You had a situation there where, you know, Milosevic was somebody that was not doing good things.
[18:34.820 --> 18:37.520]  And I don't want to necessarily compare people to Milosevic here.
[18:37.600 --> 18:39.260]  I'm just pointing out something.
[18:39.480 --> 18:48.960]  That when we bombed their country, even the people who were opposed to Milosevic felt like they were being violated by an outside force.
[18:49.080 --> 18:52.780]  That's the effect that's going to happen when things like this occur.
[18:52.820 --> 18:56.820]  When people harass volunteers who are coming in of their own time to answer the phone.
[18:56.820 --> 19:00.560]  So, again, if you're going to harass someone who harassed me on the air, that's fine.
[19:00.760 --> 19:02.780]  But don't harass people who aren't here.
[19:02.940 --> 19:05.680]  Don't harass people who are just trying to help the station out.
[19:05.760 --> 19:08.220]  Because, believe it or not, we all want the same thing.
[19:08.240 --> 19:10.580]  We all want a community radio station where we can speak.
[19:11.220 --> 19:13.540]  All right, I see no phone calls on the pledge line.
[19:13.540 --> 19:14.420]  Come on, at least $5.
[19:14.900 --> 19:15.820]  I mean, it's $5.
[19:16.180 --> 19:17.000]  2-0-9.
[19:17.000 --> 19:19.000]  Oh, but that's below even the Isaac level.
[19:19.340 --> 19:19.880]  That's the...
[19:19.880 --> 19:20.700]  That you've declared here.
[19:20.720 --> 19:21.260]  That's half an Isaac.
[19:21.260 --> 19:23.320]  You know, I've given a lot of thought to this.
[19:23.400 --> 19:27.180]  And I've been listening to BAI pretty much, you know, whenever I'm awake.
[19:27.380 --> 19:30.240]  And it's atrocious what has happened.
[19:30.580 --> 19:36.020]  The escalation on both sides of this conflict, which I'm not even sure what the conflict is about.
[19:36.020 --> 19:37.320]  We're up to $4,300.
[19:39.340 --> 19:40.460]  Now it says HAR.
[19:42.120 --> 19:43.940]  And, you know, it's...
[19:43.940 --> 19:47.800]  The thing is, is that I gave money this pledge drive.
[19:47.800 --> 19:53.940]  And even though Amy Goodman was censored, I was wanting to give money during her slot to show that I support her.
[19:54.580 --> 19:57.600]  And I did during that time slot, even though that she wasn't on.
[19:57.800 --> 20:04.380]  Because I really feel like the argument against withholding funds, it doesn't...
[20:04.380 --> 20:14.020]  I mean, you know, if you establish an escrow and show that this money could be given to WBAI and a whole bunch of money piles up in there, maybe that's one idea.
[20:14.020 --> 20:24.000]  But withholding it is like, that's like saying, you know, it's like saying, well, we don't like what you're doing, so we're going to destroy everything.
[20:24.180 --> 20:24.960]  Exactly, exactly.
[20:25.060 --> 20:27.600]  That is the problem that I have with this.
[20:27.660 --> 20:37.320]  Now, I will continue to be part of, you know, the people who are expressing concern and give them the opportunity to be heard and help out in whatever way I can.
[20:38.520 --> 20:49.600]  But these solutions are not really solutions where you say, you know, we will withhold funds until a certain point and then, you know, we'll let them go.
[20:49.660 --> 20:50.740]  It doesn't work that way.
[20:50.860 --> 20:54.180]  It doesn't work that way because nobody will ever agree when everything is peachy keen.
[20:54.320 --> 20:55.340]  There's always going to be a problem.
[20:55.520 --> 20:57.380]  You're always going to have a disagreement of some sort.
[20:57.380 --> 21:03.420]  The thing that we are presenting to you tonight is, is this station worth salvaging?
[21:03.600 --> 21:04.660]  Is it worth saving?
[21:04.840 --> 21:07.520]  Do you support what we are doing right now?
[21:07.680 --> 21:15.960]  That's just like, you know, corporations with a lot of the major radio stations, the major radio corporation advertisers, in a lot of cases, dictate content.
[21:16.360 --> 21:26.080]  And by sending these letters saying, you know, you get my money if you do X, Y, and Z, then you're no better than one of these corporations.
[21:26.080 --> 21:32.780]  Either you support it, and you take the good with the bad, or you take free speech for everybody.
[21:33.040 --> 21:36.160]  We have free speech on this radio station.
[21:36.300 --> 21:37.660]  Now, do we have enough free speech?
[21:37.760 --> 21:40.180]  That's something that certainly is a discussion point.
[21:41.020 --> 21:52.300]  But I still defy anyone to find a station in this city, in this country even, that provides more than we do on a typical broadcast day.
[21:52.480 --> 21:54.940]  All right, yeah, we need to improve.
[21:54.940 --> 21:56.320]  We need to fix some things.
[21:56.440 --> 21:56.800]  Like Isaac.
[21:57.720 --> 22:01.480]  I don't know if we need to fix Isaac, because if we fixed him, he wouldn't be as entertaining.
[22:02.800 --> 22:03.940]  212-209-2950.
[22:04.900 --> 22:05.700]  Let's take some more phone calls.
[22:06.000 --> 22:07.120]  $100, you get all the t-shirts.
[22:07.280 --> 22:08.620]  We have three phone calls coming in.
[22:08.780 --> 22:11.380]  Let's take some more here on the broadcast line.
[22:11.560 --> 22:12.480]  Good evening, you're on the air.
[22:13.740 --> 22:14.720]  Uh, hi.
[22:14.920 --> 22:15.260]  How you doing?
[22:15.260 --> 22:29.260]  I think, I think there should be much more sympathy for Isaac, because I think, you know, I think he's a, you know, a member of us, of an important small minority at the station, you know, government agents badly in need of training, you know.
[22:30.760 --> 22:38.400]  Well, we'd be, we'd be hypocrites if we didn't, uh, support the right to, uh, diverse opinions on our own show and then call for it on the radio station, wouldn't we?
[22:38.400 --> 22:38.560]  That's cool.
[22:38.940 --> 22:39.940]  Encourage him to go back to it.
[22:40.040 --> 22:40.620]  Have a good evening.
[22:40.760 --> 22:41.520]  Thanks, thanks for calling.
[22:41.680 --> 22:43.140]  That's something that you'll get here.
[22:43.380 --> 22:43.800]  I mean, this is...
[22:43.800 --> 22:44.860]  Your father sounds a little sleepy.
[22:46.140 --> 22:48.280]  This, this is talk radio at its best.
[22:48.440 --> 22:54.200]  I mean, Emmanuel and I will just go at it for an hour, arguing whatever point happens to come up.
[22:54.340 --> 22:54.860]  No, we won't.
[22:55.000 --> 22:57.480]  And it makes for really interesting... All right, well, theoretically we could.
[22:57.940 --> 23:05.300]  But, I mean, it makes for really interesting radio, and that's something that you don't get a lot of places, but you get it here in the city of New York at 99.5 FM.
[23:05.300 --> 23:10.700]  And it's only going to stay here if you call 2-1-2-2-9-2-9-5-0.
[23:10.800 --> 23:12.640]  It's amazing how sucky radio is in this town.
[23:12.640 --> 23:14.080]  I've been wanting to say that for weeks now.
[23:14.620 --> 23:15.980]  Radio is pretty sucky, you're right.
[23:15.980 --> 23:17.020]  It is sucky in this town.
[23:17.140 --> 23:17.700]  Can't see anything.
[23:17.920 --> 23:18.800]  Except for this station.
[23:19.280 --> 23:19.480]  Right.
[23:19.720 --> 23:20.900]  And you can own a piece of it.
[23:21.000 --> 23:23.340]  2-1-2-2-0-9-2-9-5-0.
[23:23.580 --> 23:24.300]  Isaac level, $10.
[23:24.660 --> 23:25.100]  Bernie S.
[23:25.300 --> 23:25.680]  level, $100.
[23:26.400 --> 23:27.760]  You can ask the volunteer...
[23:27.760 --> 23:28.420]  It's ten times what I am, huh?
[23:28.460 --> 23:29.220]  Citibank level, $10 million.
[23:29.220 --> 23:32.640]  You can ask the volunteer coordinators, uh, what all that means, what you'll get for that.
[23:32.780 --> 23:34.300]  But please, we want to see some phone calls coming in.
[23:34.300 --> 23:36.160]  We see three calls on the line, which is great.
[23:36.400 --> 23:37.880]  We're going to go back to another phone call now.
[23:37.960 --> 23:40.000]  And please, make pledges when you call those lines.
[23:40.100 --> 23:41.900]  Don't just make the little red lights light up.
[23:41.980 --> 23:43.320]  We want to see some support.
[23:43.600 --> 23:45.340]  You know, we want your voice to be heard.
[23:45.440 --> 23:46.460]  We want it to mean something.
[23:46.620 --> 23:50.000]  When people pledged last pledge drive, it did mean something.
[23:50.020 --> 23:50.960]  You may have heard otherwise.
[23:50.960 --> 23:56.920]  You may have heard people say that that proved that, uh, you know, that, uh, people support the way things currently are going.
[23:57.300 --> 23:59.280]  And that's not necessarily so.
[23:59.500 --> 24:00.500]  It just is not.
[24:01.420 --> 24:02.840]  So, you know, call up.
[24:02.840 --> 24:04.500]  Show your support for what we are doing.
[24:04.620 --> 24:06.300]  212-209-2950.
[24:07.000 --> 24:08.180]  And let's take a phone call over here.
[24:08.260 --> 24:08.560]  Good evening.
[24:08.680 --> 24:09.240]  You're on the air.
[24:10.260 --> 24:10.540]  Hello?
[24:10.780 --> 24:11.240]  Yes, go ahead.
[24:11.380 --> 24:11.620]  Hi.
[24:12.040 --> 24:13.820]  I just wanted to... I already pledged.
[24:13.860 --> 24:14.940]  I pledged a little while ago.
[24:15.040 --> 24:15.260]  Thank you.
[24:15.360 --> 24:15.540]  Thank you.
[24:15.820 --> 24:18.480]  And I just wanted to let you know what's going on with democracy.
[24:18.660 --> 24:21.960]  Now, democracy now is going on all over the country, except here.
[24:23.240 --> 24:27.480]  And, you know, when they announced it, they just said, well, if you want to hear it, you can listen to it on your computer.
[24:27.900 --> 24:30.760]  So if you don't have one, it's not easy for you to get one.
[24:31.360 --> 24:31.920]  Tough luck.
[24:32.920 --> 24:37.400]  And they also said, well, you can call all you want, but, you know, we're not going to listen to you.
[24:38.060 --> 24:40.680]  Which is a rather unusual thing to say when you're asking for money.
[24:40.880 --> 24:42.580]  If somebody says that to you, get their name.
[24:42.840 --> 24:43.700]  Find out who said that.
[24:43.720 --> 24:44.900]  Oh, I know who said it on the air.
[24:46.180 --> 24:49.140]  Well, that's something... we don't want to get into personalities on the air.
[24:49.460 --> 24:54.400]  I don't want to, but that's not the first time that they've said, you know, we don't care what you say.
[24:55.240 --> 24:56.420]  But, okay, I'm going to try.
[24:56.540 --> 25:01.800]  I'm going to go out on a limb here and just try to understand the rationale behind someone saying something crazy like that.
[25:01.920 --> 25:08.440]  And I imagine being deluged with phone calls of people saying the same thing or hanging up on you or just being rude.
[25:08.780 --> 25:15.720]  I think maybe in some cases, not in all cases, but in some cases, it's turning people into people that they're really not.
[25:15.720 --> 25:17.040]  Do you think there's any sense to that?
[25:17.300 --> 25:17.920]  I think it is.
[25:18.060 --> 25:23.000]  I think it's, you know, the issue is just so polarizing people so much and driving people.
[25:23.100 --> 25:32.080]  I mean, I really admire your efforts to, you know, trying to be fair, trying to keep cool things down, trying to keep, you know, we all care about the station.
[25:32.080 --> 25:36.620]  We might disagree on how to do it, but, you know, the station is the most important thing.
[25:38.000 --> 25:52.700]  But this person said that the reason that they didn't want to have democracy on now during the pledge drive is because they didn't want to subject Amy Goodman to the trauma of asking for money for Pacific.
[25:52.860 --> 25:59.880]  I mean, something that Amy, as far as I know, has never backed down from and has always been an enthusiastic fundraiser.
[25:59.880 --> 26:02.240]  No, she's gone through that trauma pretty well in the past.
[26:02.320 --> 26:02.640]  I know that.
[26:02.860 --> 26:03.180]  Yeah.
[26:03.820 --> 26:09.740]  My own theory is they don't want to have her on because they're afraid that she'll raise too much money.
[26:10.360 --> 26:11.600]  That's an interesting theory.
[26:11.620 --> 26:12.500]  I don't know about that.
[26:12.620 --> 26:15.680]  I have nothing to base it on except that, you know, terrible paranoia.
[26:15.900 --> 26:28.340]  But to say, oh, no, we just don't want to subject her to the trauma of having to ask for money when she's gone all around the country slamming Pacifica.
[26:30.020 --> 26:40.260]  Well, again, you know, you're attributing remarks, but we need to, like, actually have those, you know, those remarks either over the air or in quotes or something like that before we can say that was actually said.
[26:40.280 --> 26:42.520]  It is pretty traumatic fundraising because the phones aren't ringing.
[26:42.820 --> 26:43.340]  I heard it.
[26:43.420 --> 26:43.820]  It was said.
[26:44.040 --> 26:44.460]  It was said.
[26:44.560 --> 26:45.680]  It was on Friday morning.
[26:45.860 --> 26:46.140]  I can tell you.
[26:46.980 --> 26:48.280]  I don't want to slam anyone.
[26:48.500 --> 26:53.640]  I have because I really do believe that if you're at that station, you're at that for the money, the glory.
[26:54.100 --> 26:57.900]  I mean, there's a lot of hardworking people that I admire who I've admired in the past.
[26:58.200 --> 27:05.920]  But I don't... but I actually... I actually just don't listen to it in the morning anymore because...
[27:05.920 --> 27:07.820]  Well, the point is you're listening now.
[27:07.900 --> 27:11.480]  Well, I feel so bad because I usually listen to these stations the whole day.
[27:11.700 --> 27:11.980]  Mm-hmm.
[27:12.380 --> 27:14.000]  And, you know, I listen to different programs.
[27:14.380 --> 27:21.080]  I listen to the computer show before I even had a computer, you know, and listen to your show before I had any way to get on the net, so...
[27:21.080 --> 27:21.820]  All right.
[27:21.900 --> 27:26.200]  Well, then we value your opinion as a listener, and we hope that you stick around and make things better.
[27:27.120 --> 27:28.740]  212-209-2950.
[27:28.740 --> 27:28.740]  Okay.
[27:28.740 --> 27:28.900]  Thank you a lot.
[27:29.000 --> 27:37.500]  I just wanted to let you know I can email you the information on the day of the program and what was said, which is very, very distressing, but I don't want to slam anyone.
[27:37.760 --> 27:38.080]  Okay.
[27:38.200 --> 27:38.480]  Thank you.
[27:38.620 --> 27:39.460]  Thank you for calling.
[27:39.780 --> 27:43.720]  We had six calls on the line during that call, so that's really great that people are calling and showing support.
[27:43.860 --> 27:46.260]  That shows me that we're a sincere bunch.
[27:46.420 --> 27:47.020]  How much do we have?
[27:47.100 --> 27:48.100]  We've got this sign up here.
[27:48.460 --> 27:50.240]  We have a sign in front of the total.
[27:50.240 --> 27:54.280]  Well, they're probably busy in the tally room, but when they get a chance, they can move the sign out of the total thing.
[27:54.760 --> 27:55.780]  That would be kind of nice.
[27:56.560 --> 27:58.740]  212-209-2900 is the phone in line.
[27:58.840 --> 28:03.000]  Well, that's probably all busy, but 212-209-2950 is the pledge line.
[28:03.080 --> 28:07.860]  That's the really important one right now because without that, we can't give out the other phone number.
[28:08.020 --> 28:12.560]  We can't have these dialogues and these conversations and these self-analyses.
[28:12.840 --> 28:19.400]  You know, what we're going through now is, I think, interesting, and I think I've heard some really good radio over the past several months.
[28:20.440 --> 28:21.980]  And I'll say it right now.
[28:21.980 --> 28:26.120]  I think we are going to come out stronger and better when this is all over.
[28:26.400 --> 28:35.200]  And I think we'll do that by rational conversation, by showing respect towards each other, by conversing.
[28:35.200 --> 28:47.540]  We don't want, you know, an Israeli-Palestinian type of scenario here where basically people are constantly at each other's throats, speaking all kinds of venom, and the rest of the world just doesn't really care anymore after a while.
[28:47.620 --> 28:56.480]  That's what can happen when you have these really strong opinions that you do not back down from at all and you believe your way or no way.
[28:57.240 --> 29:03.320]  I've seen that on all sides, and it's not a good road to go down, especially at a place like this.
[29:05.000 --> 29:06.980]  We've raised $4,385.
[29:07.920 --> 29:11.920]  Commercial radio stations charge $6,000 for a 60-second spot.
[29:12.020 --> 29:14.960]  Okay, so we're almost up to the minute after three hours.
[29:14.960 --> 29:19.440]  And the number is 212-209-2950.
[29:19.480 --> 29:21.100]  Give $5, give $10.
[29:21.740 --> 29:23.420]  And we have four calls on the line.
[29:23.580 --> 29:26.520]  Please give as much as you can.
[29:26.680 --> 29:29.680]  The big pledges really count as well, and the little ones do too.
[29:30.220 --> 29:31.280]  Every little bit counts.
[29:31.280 --> 29:32.260]  That's what gets us up here.
[29:32.580 --> 29:36.760]  And we hope to break $5,000 during this particular fundraiser.
[29:36.900 --> 29:40.780]  That really would be, I think, a good fundraiser for us, for Off the Hook.
[29:41.080 --> 29:42.600]  212-209-2950.
[29:42.600 --> 29:44.700]  Well, let's take another on-air phone call.
[29:45.060 --> 29:46.100]  Good evening, you're on the air.
[29:47.560 --> 29:48.280]  Speak up, please.
[29:49.920 --> 29:51.340]  Okay, well, that's part of the deal.
[29:51.420 --> 29:52.020]  You've got to speak up.
[29:52.020 --> 29:53.820]  If you don't speak up, you can't put you on the air.
[29:53.900 --> 29:54.380]  Let's go over here.
[29:54.720 --> 29:55.660]  Good evening, you're on the air.
[29:56.220 --> 29:57.980]  Yeah, about the Ferris Bueller thing.
[29:58.040 --> 29:58.300]  Uh-huh.
[29:58.840 --> 30:02.280]  My high school adopted a little phone-in thing to see when kids are cutting.
[30:02.540 --> 30:02.720]  Yeah.
[30:02.840 --> 30:03.840]  About three years ago.
[30:04.300 --> 30:06.500]  And it is the least accurate thing in the world.
[30:06.620 --> 30:09.860]  What kinds of things happen when it works?
[30:10.260 --> 30:11.440]  When it calls you...
[30:11.440 --> 30:13.960]  Well, some kids, it calls the house at 12 in the morning.
[30:15.220 --> 30:15.920]  12 midnight?
[30:16.240 --> 30:16.460]  Yeah.
[30:16.840 --> 30:17.540]  That's great.
[30:17.660 --> 30:18.760]  And it calls them to say what?
[30:19.060 --> 30:23.660]  It says, um, your child has been cutting one or more classes this week.
[30:23.800 --> 30:25.160]  But it doesn't tell you when.
[30:25.640 --> 30:33.840]  Um, if people want to call up the hotline or whatever and try and fool around with it, it says 718-225-2408.
[30:35.100 --> 30:37.040]  Don't ever say we don't give out information here.
[30:37.180 --> 30:39.340]  Hopefully that's, uh, not somebody's phone number.
[30:39.340 --> 30:40.100]  What was that, 718?
[30:40.100 --> 30:41.780]  No, no, we already gave it out once.
[30:41.780 --> 30:42.760]  That's enough, but, uh...
[30:42.760 --> 30:43.660]  What, is that against the law?
[30:43.920 --> 30:44.360]  But, uh...
[30:44.360 --> 30:45.340]  Who's bad as EMPAA?
[30:46.700 --> 30:48.300]  Yeah, about your lawsuit...
[30:48.300 --> 30:48.500]  Yes, go ahead.
[30:48.720 --> 30:51.560]  ...there's a movie I think you should watch called Roger and Me.
[30:51.820 --> 30:53.380]  Yes, I've seen it.
[30:53.420 --> 30:53.880]  I've seen it.
[30:53.980 --> 30:56.640]  And, uh, yeah, a lot of the stuff in that film is right on.
[30:56.640 --> 30:57.020]  Definitely.
[30:58.100 --> 30:59.100]  All right, thanks for your call.
[31:00.980 --> 31:02.300]  212-209-2950.
[31:02.460 --> 31:03.560]  Let's see some pledges come in.
[31:03.760 --> 31:05.300]  We have one call on the line now.
[31:05.420 --> 31:06.280]  We want to see, uh, more.
[31:06.380 --> 31:07.780]  We're at $4,440.
[31:08.100 --> 31:10.460]  Let's make that $700 calls on the line, please.
[31:11.100 --> 31:12.380]  Got a fun piece of news for you.
[31:12.400 --> 31:12.700]  What's that?
[31:12.860 --> 31:15.520]  Did you hear about the Echelon love bug variant?
[31:15.960 --> 31:16.880]  Uh, no.
[31:17.800 --> 31:18.200]  Supposedly.
[31:18.500 --> 31:23.700]  Someone has modified the original love, you know, virus worm thing from, uh, however many months ago.
[31:23.840 --> 31:23.980]  Right.
[31:23.980 --> 31:27.700]  And has included a word list to try and trip up the Echelon system.
[31:27.960 --> 31:30.880]  Now, of course, you know, that entire effort is really laughable.
[31:31.060 --> 31:38.300]  But, uh, it's, it's somewhat amusing that this might be a virus that people would want to get in order to, you know, continue to move this thing around.
[31:38.840 --> 31:44.300]  Somebody, somebody added 2 and 2, came up with 3.9999999999, and I give them some credit for that.
[31:44.300 --> 31:50.760]  But, uh, but I mean, the, the entire concept that this list bouncing around is going to, to, you know, choke Echelon is a joke.
[31:51.000 --> 31:56.240]  Well, sure, if you recycle it through, like, through sentence generators and stuff like that and make it different.
[31:56.640 --> 31:57.240]  Oh, come on.
[31:57.800 --> 31:59.740]  Okay, 2 and 2, 2, 0, 9, 2, 9, 5, 0.
[31:59.800 --> 32:03.160]  I see a light lighting up and then turning off and lighting up and turning off.
[32:03.240 --> 32:06.080]  So some, some idiot out there is, uh, is harassing the volunteers.
[32:06.220 --> 32:07.120]  And that's just not right.
[32:07.320 --> 32:07.540]  All right?
[32:07.600 --> 32:08.540]  That's not right to do that.
[32:09.000 --> 32:10.360]  Again, you know, that's what we're here for.
[32:10.420 --> 32:11.760]  If you want to harass somebody, harass us.
[32:11.760 --> 32:14.200]  Don't harass the people that are volunteering their time to answer phones.
[32:14.300 --> 32:14.900]  I'm used to it.
[32:15.060 --> 32:17.240]  Yeah, let's, let's have some phone calls come in.
[32:17.380 --> 32:24.500]  Let's have some phone calls come in from people that really care about the place, that want to pledge support for the radio station, so that we can do this again and continue talking.
[32:24.780 --> 32:25.220]  All right?
[32:25.300 --> 32:26.840]  That's, that's what this place is all about.
[32:26.980 --> 32:28.540]  That's what it's been about as long as I've been here.
[32:28.660 --> 32:31.300]  And a lot longer than that, this place has been here since 1960.
[32:31.320 --> 32:33.760]  You don't find radio stations like this anywhere.
[32:34.000 --> 32:39.080]  I just traveled through the Midwest, and my God, I can't tell you how dead the radio scene is out there.
[32:39.600 --> 32:41.240]  It could happen in New York as well.
[32:41.240 --> 32:47.780]  And the only way it can really happen, the only way we can guarantee that that happens is by not supporting the station.
[32:48.040 --> 32:50.440]  I mean, I can't make it any clearer than, than that.
[32:50.500 --> 32:57.400]  I mean, if the station is not here, if you don't, you know, keep us going, we can't get better.
[32:57.600 --> 33:00.060]  We can't fix the things that are, that are broken.
[33:00.300 --> 33:02.440]  Hey, democracy is a process, not an event.
[33:02.440 --> 33:06.060]  And, uh, if you keep, you know, you need, we need money for the process.
[33:06.340 --> 33:21.780]  And, uh, it's not, you know, like, if everybody who was banned and fired or whatever gets hired and unbanned and the gag order goes away, the underlying problems that caused that situation are not going to go away so simply either.
[33:22.440 --> 33:29.140]  Uh, where there's going to be a lot of arguing and, and heated discussion about this because this is, uh, you know, this is the word.
[33:29.140 --> 33:52.140]  The BAI is in the process of, of creating, you know, uh, a, a link to the subculture and a link to the counterculture, uh, which is, you know, growing every day because people are realizing that the American way of waste and, uh, discrimination and prejudice and world domination is going to kill everybody.
[33:52.320 --> 33:56.460]  And it's going to kill everybody, maybe within all of our lifetimes.
[33:56.460 --> 34:03.160]  And, uh, if the sea keeps rising, you know, by the 2100, the worst case scenario is a seven meter sea rise.
[34:03.480 --> 34:05.540]  And guess who's leading the way with that?
[34:05.860 --> 34:11.280]  America and sport utility vehicles and everybody demanding smaller cell phones every week.
[34:11.280 --> 34:22.040]  And that entire privilege that America has been, you know, walking around the world, you know, stepping on everybody because we want cheap cars.
[34:22.260 --> 34:24.280]  Can you steer the ship back towards calling?
[34:24.340 --> 34:25.080]  Yeah, I really do.
[34:25.080 --> 34:27.140]  Dude, man, smoke it up, brother.
[34:27.260 --> 34:29.980]  Hey, you know, this is what BAI talks about, all of that stuff.
[34:29.980 --> 34:36.360]  And I've heard, I've heard everything that I mentioned discussed in the past month here on BAI.
[34:36.440 --> 34:38.000]  I've heard all of that discussed here.
[34:38.400 --> 34:52.500]  And it has things, it has directly to do with hackers because, you know, the, the people who design this technology that is, you know, surveilling us and encompassing us, uh, don't want us to know how this technology works.
[34:52.500 --> 34:56.220]  We're at $4,925, so that means...
[34:56.220 --> 34:57.060]  So, $75 pledge.
[34:57.200 --> 34:57.440]  So, $75 pledge.
[34:57.440 --> 35:00.860]  $75 pledge will put us over $5,000, which is our goal for this, this, uh...
[35:00.860 --> 35:03.660]  And you get the clear channel advertisement.
[35:04.620 --> 35:06.080]  No, $6,000 you need for that.
[35:06.380 --> 35:06.460]  $6,000.
[35:06.720 --> 35:07.400]  Just like, just like any...
[35:07.400 --> 35:08.900]  No, we're giving it, you know, a discount.
[35:08.900 --> 35:15.480]  Just like any family, there's going to be arguments inside the WBAI family, but that doesn't mean you stop coming to Easter.
[35:16.420 --> 35:17.560]  Well, no, actually...
[35:17.560 --> 35:17.780]  Send money now.
[35:18.900 --> 35:20.440]  Sometimes it does, but yeah, I know what you're saying.
[35:20.520 --> 35:21.240]  I know what you're trying to say.
[35:21.280 --> 35:24.340]  You don't just excommunicate yourself from the family, you work inside the family.
[35:24.460 --> 35:24.740]  That's right.
[35:24.800 --> 35:26.300]  We want you to stay part of our family.
[35:26.800 --> 35:27.680]  No, see, I got...
[35:27.680 --> 35:28.500]  Not that kind of family.
[35:28.680 --> 35:28.960]  Oh, okay.
[35:30.140 --> 35:32.400]  212-209-2950 is our telephone number.
[35:32.440 --> 35:33.540]  Let's take another listener phone call.
[35:33.620 --> 35:34.480]  Good evening, you're on the air.
[35:35.360 --> 35:35.680]  Hello?
[35:35.920 --> 35:36.380]  Yes, go ahead.
[35:36.820 --> 35:39.060]  I wanted to talk about the boycott.
[35:39.240 --> 35:51.180]  You were saying that you don't think the boycott is a fair thing to do, but I think that sounds funny because BAI is really into boycotts or the tradition of all of us activist people and everything.
[35:51.380 --> 36:02.360]  We're always trying to get people to this protest and have been trying to gather boycotts, and people finally got brave and realized that they could use that power and are trying to boycott the station, and now people there are criticizing that technique.
[36:02.420 --> 36:03.360]  Okay, well, here's the difference.
[36:03.360 --> 36:06.840]  When we're out there boycotting things, we're boycotting our enemies.
[36:07.020 --> 36:13.920]  We're boycotting, you know, various corporations or military maneuvers or things like that.
[36:13.920 --> 36:18.280]  But there are people that are in corporations who have gotten on the board of Pacifica, and that's what we're trying to stop.
[36:18.380 --> 36:18.540]  Okay.
[36:18.540 --> 36:19.480]  We're trying to boycott...
[36:19.480 --> 36:20.240]  And I agree with that.
[36:20.260 --> 36:23.140]  ...Extine, Becker, and Green, and the people that are getting power there.
[36:23.320 --> 36:24.140]  Okay, that's fine.
[36:24.140 --> 36:26.980]  But the radio station continues to exist.
[36:27.040 --> 36:31.580]  And you're listening to the radio station now, and you obviously care about the radio station enough.
[36:31.900 --> 36:37.680]  But the other thing that ties into what you're saying about continuing to exist is there's been no accountability.
[36:37.960 --> 36:46.080]  I don't expect to give my money somewhere, not even to a church or whatever, and not get the real accounting and get the bottom line.
[36:46.200 --> 36:47.820]  And dictate all the policy.
[36:47.820 --> 36:54.940]  No one ever gave us a tally, and no one ever mentions that Valerie Van Isla or whatever, for all her faults...
[36:54.940 --> 36:55.420]  Okay.
[36:55.420 --> 37:00.440]  I heard someone report that we had finally gotten out of the red and that everything was going well.
[37:00.660 --> 37:07.400]  So a lot of the stuff that's going on, like, oh, we're going to die, we need money, and making everyone afraid, is a lot of hoopla.
[37:07.580 --> 37:12.400]  And if it's really true, then I would like to see someone say, this is where BAI was then.
[37:12.400 --> 37:13.840]  This is how much money we need.
[37:13.920 --> 37:15.200]  This is how much money we made.
[37:15.200 --> 37:22.320]  It's ridiculous for anyone, and it's insulting, to ask me for money, and to not ever give me a total tally.
[37:22.720 --> 37:23.460]  Okay, fine.
[37:23.600 --> 37:24.400]  What is the tally this time?
[37:25.260 --> 37:31.980]  You're raising valid points, but at the same time, you're also getting a chance to speak out, and that's what we're asking you to support.
[37:32.220 --> 37:37.900]  But I can speak out on Indy Media, too, and I can speak out on the new places that people are finding to go to.
[37:37.900 --> 37:53.800]  And if BAI is going to, you know, you're doing it in a pretty fair way and opening up the lines, but it's like three people that have the talent and goodwill and ability to juggle that'll open up the lines and let a little bit of fairness in.
[37:53.940 --> 37:59.920]  But, like, you know, the other 20 hours of the day are mean, insulting people that are cutting people off and not letting us speak.
[37:59.920 --> 38:08.000]  So, why don't you go find a show somewhere else that's better, like Indy Media or something, and then we can support you there.
[38:08.000 --> 38:12.240]  I don't want to support you somewhere that oppresses people the other 20 hours of the day.
[38:12.420 --> 38:12.720]  Okay.
[38:12.940 --> 38:13.580]  Thanks for your call.
[38:13.640 --> 38:14.160]  Thanks a lot.
[38:14.380 --> 38:14.560]  Bye.
[38:14.860 --> 38:26.360]  Well, you know, I can understand that point of view, but at the same time, it seems kind of self-defeating to say, okay, you know, stop being on a 50,000-watt radio station and get on the Internet and have, you know, maybe six people listening.
[38:27.180 --> 38:34.580]  You know, yeah, sure, you might have more freedom to express yourself and you might not have the same worries, but you have other worries that replace this.
[38:34.820 --> 38:46.060]  I think as long as we have a fighting chance of making this place into something that everybody can be happy with, well, not everybody, obviously, but, you know, most of us can be happy with to some degree, then we should do that.
[38:46.220 --> 38:53.020]  And I think that when you have people rallying outside the radio station, hey, these people aren't rallying to shut down the radio station.
[38:53.020 --> 38:56.440]  It's not the same kind of rally as when you rally outside Exxon or something.
[38:56.660 --> 39:01.020]  You know, you want to shut those bastards down and you want to, you know, cause them grief.
[39:01.220 --> 39:07.900]  But these people who rally outside us, they're showing support for free radio, and free radio is what WBAI stands for.
[39:08.400 --> 39:09.040]  Don't you see?
[39:09.180 --> 39:16.300]  It's, you know, we have to continue along that line or else we simply fall apart and there is no more free radio.
[39:16.300 --> 39:17.740]  It's very easy to do that.
[39:18.220 --> 39:31.800]  So, um, by all means, continue to speak out, continue to speak out, continue to express yourself, continue to show your concerns in whatever way possible, showing respect as you do so, being fair to others as you do so.
[39:32.600 --> 39:36.840]  But at the same time, don't turn your back on the place you're trying to save.
[39:38.700 --> 39:44.940]  Now, you may disagree with that, fine, but, uh, that is where I stand and no one's telling me that I have to have this viewpoint.
[39:45.120 --> 39:48.740]  That is my viewpoint after thinking it through long and hard.
[39:48.900 --> 39:52.280]  And I understand the problems people have and the disagreements people may have.
[39:52.780 --> 39:59.460]  But I really think that, uh, if you don't stand up for the thing that, that you value, it will go away one way or another.
[39:59.600 --> 40:01.320]  212-209-2950.
[40:02.120 --> 40:05.480]  And, uh, I guess I didn't convince anybody because there's no calls on the line.
[40:05.820 --> 40:07.640]  There were, and I think they went away.
[40:07.740 --> 40:08.680]  Will we have more people to think?
[40:10.520 --> 40:11.000]  Okay.
[40:11.000 --> 40:11.480]  Okay.
[40:12.180 --> 40:19.020]  Again, we have to ask that people call the pledge line to pledge, call the call-in line to call up.
[40:19.140 --> 40:26.100]  And, uh, I'm going to insist that people call the pledge line and not, uh, harass the people that are there because that's just wrong.
[40:26.280 --> 40:32.040]  And it makes me, makes me ashamed to be part of the people that, uh, um, that want to see change.
[40:32.140 --> 40:35.980]  I want to see things open up as far as speech.
[40:35.980 --> 40:38.180]  All right, we have three phone calls on the line.
[40:38.280 --> 40:43.400]  Let's hope those are three good phone calls and people are actually pledging to be on the radio.
[40:43.620 --> 40:49.300]  We're going to, uh, talk amongst ourselves for a couple of minutes to make sure those are good calls because, uh, we want to be able to, um...
[40:49.300 --> 40:49.720]  Yeah, come on.
[40:49.900 --> 40:52.080]  Go hassle Citigroup or something like that.
[40:52.200 --> 40:52.620]  Don't hassle the AI.
[40:52.620 --> 40:53.500]  No, like, call Clear Channel.
[40:53.500 --> 40:56.240]  They own 700,000 billboards in every radio station.
[40:56.400 --> 41:00.620]  If this is COINTELPRO people who are calling up to cause disruption, come on.
[41:00.860 --> 41:03.440]  You know, go hassle Libya again or something like that.
[41:03.440 --> 41:04.240]  You know, like...
[41:04.240 --> 41:06.820]  It's really easy to cause dissent in the ranks.
[41:06.920 --> 41:07.440]  It really is.
[41:07.540 --> 41:07.820]  It's very easy.
[41:07.960 --> 41:10.940]  Yeah, but, you know, because democracy is hard.
[41:11.140 --> 41:17.420]  Because you can, it's easier to say, oh, well, so-and-so said such-and-such and therefore I'm not going to do this.
[41:18.160 --> 41:19.980]  Instead of saying, hey, wait a second.
[41:20.600 --> 41:27.200]  Uh, you know, these people are, are, you know, they're bringing this anti-democratic thing to our radio station.
[41:27.200 --> 41:29.960]  Uh, you know, we need to go there.
[41:30.080 --> 41:33.960]  You know, if you, if you care so much about BAI, come down here and volunteer.
[41:34.240 --> 41:34.620]  That's right.
[41:34.660 --> 41:37.560]  You know, volunteer and, and you don't have to give any money.
[41:37.720 --> 41:39.280]  You can just show your support.
[41:39.660 --> 41:48.360]  And, by the way, if you really, I mean, if you really are objecting to the things that are going on here, come down here and volunteer and act like a civilized human being.
[41:48.920 --> 41:51.340]  Get a job here and change it from within.
[41:51.340 --> 42:01.440]  Again, don't call on the phone and say, oh, well, you know, in between watching HBO and, uh, you know, and playing the lottery, I care about democracy.
[42:01.560 --> 42:07.740]  So I'm going to, you know, allocate 3.7 minutes of my spare time to, uh, to give out money.
[42:07.960 --> 42:18.600]  And, you know, but then for the rest of the time, and then, you know, you come back a couple months later and, and there's Clear Channel here on 99.5 and you say, oh, well, what, what happened to WBAI?
[42:18.600 --> 42:21.600]  Because they had that neat, that neat program on them.
[42:21.600 --> 42:23.120]  They won't be taking your phone calls then.
[42:23.140 --> 42:25.600]  They won't be taking your pledges then either because they won't care.
[42:26.060 --> 42:27.500]  But that's, that's how it works.
[42:27.620 --> 42:28.660]  That's how the radio business works.
[42:28.700 --> 42:31.080]  You have an opportunity here to make your voices heard.
[42:31.240 --> 42:33.020]  So please make those voices heard.
[42:33.160 --> 42:35.320]  212-209-2950.
[42:35.480 --> 42:36.560]  I see two calls on the line.
[42:36.680 --> 42:38.300]  I, I hope those are good calls.
[42:38.400 --> 42:40.000]  I hope those are people that are actually pledging.
[42:40.240 --> 42:45.320]  Because that really is why we're here, you know, at this particular stage doing the expanded show.
[42:45.320 --> 42:48.800]  So we can raise money for the station so we can continue having programs like this.
[42:48.940 --> 42:50.520]  We can continue talking about these issues.
[42:50.700 --> 42:52.140]  They are important issues.
[42:52.520 --> 42:58.940]  Here's a quick example of corporate radio hoo-ha and how it relates to what's going on with the whole BAI thing.
[42:59.100 --> 43:02.960]  I was sponsored by one of the major computer manufacturers in the United States.
[43:03.540 --> 43:05.540]  They have initials in their name or something.
[43:05.740 --> 43:06.780]  You can't say their name?
[43:07.560 --> 43:08.960]  You live in fear that much?
[43:08.960 --> 43:09.780]  You can't say their name?
[43:09.860 --> 43:11.740]  Listen, I don't need to get sued like you, all right, dude?
[43:13.200 --> 43:14.020]  I'll say their name.
[43:14.020 --> 43:19.800]  They sponsored my nationally syndicated radio feature where I give editorial content and so forth.
[43:20.220 --> 43:22.440]  And they sponsored me for three months.
[43:22.620 --> 43:33.100]  They sat down, sat me down, and they said, well, what if we don't agree with something that, you know, one of the reports that you've said, or if you're saying something against one of our, you know, companies that we have partnerships with?
[43:33.180 --> 43:43.500]  And I said, well, you just say it's free democracy, it's journalism, and you pat yourself on the back for supporting it and for not trying to dictate content.
[43:43.500 --> 43:57.400]  And when you hand somebody a $100 bill and say, now, here's exactly what I want you to do after you take this $100 bill, then you're no better than these corporations that buy off senators, and you're no better than these advertisers.
[43:58.620 --> 44:02.680]  And I know I have so many friends in the media that deal with this all the time.
[44:02.680 --> 44:08.760]  An advertiser spends $200,000 with a publication and sees an article in there that they don't like.
[44:08.920 --> 44:10.900]  They call up and get that stuff yanked.
[44:10.900 --> 44:11.060]  Yeah.
[44:11.200 --> 44:12.440]  It happens all the time.
[44:12.720 --> 44:16.920]  You can't hand somebody $100 and say, from 7 to 9, I want this, and from da-da-da-da.
[44:17.040 --> 44:18.520]  You either support it or you don't.
[44:18.780 --> 44:21.860]  Even worse than that is the self-censorship that takes place.
[44:22.000 --> 44:24.500]  And this happens on all the corporate media.
[44:24.500 --> 44:26.480]  It happens on Disney, you know, on the ABC.
[44:26.480 --> 44:36.000]  It happens with GE Land on NBC, where reporters will not cover a story having to do with those corporations because they feel that they might get in trouble if they do it.
[44:36.060 --> 44:38.700]  So they just opt not to, and it never becomes an issue.
[44:38.860 --> 44:41.780]  They censor themselves, you know?
[44:41.900 --> 44:43.080]  And we're not censoring ourselves.
[44:43.220 --> 44:46.560]  We can accuse us of a lot of things, but one thing we are not doing here is censoring ourselves.
[44:46.660 --> 44:48.080]  Well, except for those seven words.
[44:48.260 --> 44:49.360]  Well, yeah, that's...
[44:49.360 --> 44:49.880]  Because there's...
[44:49.880 --> 44:51.860]  I'm talking about on the issues.
[44:56.480 --> 44:57.500]  That's kind of the spirit of this place.
[44:57.700 --> 44:59.040]  This place taught me to do that.
[44:59.180 --> 45:01.760]  212-209-2950.
[45:02.060 --> 45:03.620]  Please give us...
[45:03.620 --> 45:04.400]  Oh, wow.
[45:04.500 --> 45:06.300]  We're still at $49.75.
[45:06.660 --> 45:07.760]  This is a real drag.
[45:07.820 --> 45:11.240]  We need to break $5,000 mark here.
[45:11.500 --> 45:14.900]  In the next 14 minutes, we need to raise another $5,000.
[45:15.280 --> 45:15.980]  Yeah, we know people...
[45:15.980 --> 45:16.180]  What?
[45:16.620 --> 45:17.060]  Why not?
[45:17.140 --> 45:18.740]  $5,000 in the next 14 minutes?
[45:18.740 --> 45:19.640]  Yeah, well, I mean, we could.
[45:19.640 --> 45:20.320]  Yeah, I think we should.
[45:20.460 --> 45:21.520]  There are people out there.
[45:21.620 --> 45:21.960]  Right.
[45:22.120 --> 45:25.720]  If we raise $5,000, Isaac will take his clothes off.
[45:26.260 --> 45:27.120]  On the radio.
[45:27.340 --> 45:27.800]  On the radio.
[45:27.820 --> 45:28.240]  That's legal.
[45:28.440 --> 45:29.500]  We just made all the lights go out.
[45:30.840 --> 45:32.440]  212-209-2950.
[45:32.900 --> 45:34.480]  You are aware that it's radio, though.
[45:34.520 --> 45:35.620]  We just went over $5,000.
[45:35.680 --> 45:37.900]  All right, we went over $5,000, so let's take a phone call here.
[45:38.000 --> 45:38.280]  Good evening.
[45:38.360 --> 45:38.900]  You're on the air.
[45:39.860 --> 45:40.220]  Hello.
[45:40.400 --> 45:40.840]  Yes, go ahead.
[45:41.220 --> 45:42.420]  Yeah, great show so far.
[45:42.560 --> 45:42.860]  Thank you.
[45:43.120 --> 45:45.300]  Listen, I want to say a couple things.
[45:45.800 --> 45:58.540]  First of all, I want to say that, you know, no doubt I got issues with all the things that are going down at the station, but I have given in at least $150 and spread over at least four different programs.
[45:58.700 --> 45:59.020]  Thank you.
[45:59.700 --> 46:02.820]  Well, you're welcome, because I think once...
[46:02.820 --> 46:06.340]  Because what I wanted to get to is that once BEI is gone, it is gone.
[46:06.580 --> 46:07.040]  Exactly.
[46:07.200 --> 46:07.340]  Thank you.
[46:07.340 --> 46:08.620]  It is not coming back.
[46:08.620 --> 46:11.580]  You can say goodbye, and it is just gone.
[46:11.580 --> 46:16.660]  And there will be an empty space filled in by country music or some other...
[46:16.660 --> 46:17.680]  Hey, now country...
[46:17.680 --> 46:19.200]  I'm betting on country, yeah, myself.
[46:19.560 --> 46:19.640]  Not even...
[46:19.640 --> 46:20.800]  No, it's not even good.
[46:20.800 --> 46:22.160]  But that's not even country music.
[46:22.420 --> 46:22.900]  Well, whatever.
[46:23.040 --> 46:23.540]  Put the man talk.
[46:23.640 --> 46:24.460]  Whatever it is.
[46:24.580 --> 46:25.440]  There's plenty...
[46:25.440 --> 46:30.120]  Well, actually, they probably could use a country music station in New York.
[46:30.200 --> 46:31.020]  I don't know of any...
[46:31.020 --> 46:35.160]  I don't know of too many, but I don't think BEI should sacrifice itself for that.
[46:35.320 --> 46:35.820]  No, no.
[46:35.940 --> 46:40.000]  So, I think that people need to understand that, yeah, I got issues.
[46:40.000 --> 46:41.780]  I got some serious issues with the station.
[46:42.380 --> 46:45.300]  But once it's gone, it is gone, okay?
[46:45.520 --> 46:45.800]  Yes.
[46:45.840 --> 46:46.320]  That's number one.
[46:46.420 --> 46:51.840]  Number two, to the cops out there and the COINTELPRO people, to hell with you guys.
[46:52.520 --> 46:54.920]  I think a lot of people...
[46:54.920 --> 46:58.440]  I think cops are coming in, are calling in and harassing you fellas.
[46:58.440 --> 46:59.920]  I think they hate you guys.
[47:00.120 --> 47:00.320]  Cops?
[47:00.480 --> 47:01.200]  People call me paranoid.
[47:01.340 --> 47:02.220]  Well, COINTELPRO...
[47:02.220 --> 47:04.400]  Who do you think COINTELPRO is?
[47:04.600 --> 47:06.740]  Well, yeah, I just don't think the cops are sitting around...
[47:06.740 --> 47:07.100]  I don't know.
[47:07.160 --> 47:07.640]  Maybe you're right.
[47:07.640 --> 47:18.880]  Well, you're talking about, if you have operatives within, whether it's the FBI or the police calling and harassing you guys, because let me tell you guys, you guys are thorn in the ass, so no doubt.
[47:18.880 --> 47:20.020]  Yeah, that's one word for us.
[47:20.120 --> 47:20.860]  That's one word.
[47:20.960 --> 47:21.980]  You can give me one word.
[47:22.000 --> 47:23.240]  I put in 150 bucks.
[47:24.300 --> 47:27.480]  Okay, that's in support of the station.
[47:27.660 --> 47:32.100]  I think, above all, this station is the last gasp there is.
[47:32.160 --> 47:33.680]  And I think it has to remain.
[47:33.960 --> 47:34.400]  Period.
[47:34.400 --> 47:36.060]  And hopefully not as a last gasp.
[47:36.160 --> 47:37.780]  Hopefully we can start actually breathing again.
[47:38.140 --> 47:39.120]  Well, let's hope so, one day.
[47:39.520 --> 47:41.400]  But right now, this is all we have.
[47:41.400 --> 47:42.360]  It should remain.
[47:42.620 --> 47:42.980]  Okay.
[47:43.440 --> 47:44.340]  Okay, that's number one.
[47:45.200 --> 47:45.920]  Number two...
[47:45.920 --> 47:46.940]  You already had a number two.
[47:47.020 --> 47:47.320]  This is number four.
[47:47.320 --> 47:49.440]  Well, okay, I've had my number two.
[47:49.500 --> 47:50.580]  Let me give you my number three.
[47:50.660 --> 47:51.060]  There you go.
[47:51.300 --> 47:54.800]  And this is the opposite side of what I just spoke about.
[47:54.800 --> 47:59.760]  I think the station should remain, but I do not understand what's going on over there.
[47:59.960 --> 48:09.460]  If there's some sort of personality conflict or the old guard against the new guard, listen, we expect more from progressive people.
[48:09.600 --> 48:17.000]  I mean, I think that's where the listeners, the true listeners that are somewhat outraged about what's going on, we just expect more from you fellas.
[48:17.000 --> 48:18.640]  I know people are human.
[48:19.020 --> 48:24.880]  I don't, you know, just because you're progressive or you're left wing doesn't mean that you're not going to have issues with each other.
[48:25.020 --> 48:26.160]  That would be ridiculous.
[48:26.420 --> 48:26.560]  Yeah.
[48:26.840 --> 48:28.960]  But this has gone on too far.
[48:29.280 --> 48:37.820]  I think you raise a very good point about the personality aspect because I think most of the problems when you look at the really insurmountable ones are based on personality issues.
[48:37.940 --> 48:39.860]  People insulting other people and not backing down.
[48:40.120 --> 48:44.140]  We have to get past that and look at the issues without the personalities attached to them.
[48:44.320 --> 48:44.520]  Yeah.
[48:44.700 --> 48:45.860]  This is idiotic.
[48:45.860 --> 48:47.020]  It's childish.
[48:47.340 --> 48:52.900]  I mean, these are highly intelligent people that are having these petty fights.
[48:53.040 --> 48:53.380]  Absolutely.
[48:53.660 --> 48:55.720]  Over personality issues.
[48:55.940 --> 49:02.000]  I mean, I'm telling you myself, I'm at least a 10-year listener, I'm really disgusted by this.
[49:02.140 --> 49:07.260]  I mean, I'm going to support the station this year, next year, you know, ad infinitum.
[49:07.440 --> 49:09.420]  But this has got to stop.
[49:09.600 --> 49:09.980]  Thank you.
[49:10.140 --> 49:10.980]  Thank you so much.
[49:11.120 --> 49:13.040]  This has got to stop.
[49:13.040 --> 49:16.680]  There are some really excellent people that have got tossed out.
[49:16.780 --> 49:19.080]  And I just say this is bogus.
[49:19.420 --> 49:27.160]  You guys, whoever's involved in this, has to sit in one goddamn room, lock that room, and get this out and get it over with.
[49:27.160 --> 49:40.440]  To put these people back on, you know, any idea that their shows were substandard or not up to standard or not good shows or were not raising money for the station, I think is bogus.
[49:40.440 --> 49:45.100]  I think these stations, the people who were banned and were fired, were decent people.
[49:45.420 --> 49:52.920]  I mean, I've heard Bernard, I've heard Sharon Harper, and everybody else, they're nice people, they're decent people, and they're progressive people, and they do good work.
[49:53.600 --> 50:01.440]  To say that they're not raising money or they're not cutting edge, which I have heard, not on this program, but on other programs, just incenses me.
[50:01.660 --> 50:02.020]  Okay.
[50:02.120 --> 50:02.720]  It really incenses me.
[50:02.740 --> 50:04.200]  We want to open it up for some other people, all right?
[50:04.220 --> 50:05.100]  Well, I want to open...
[50:05.100 --> 50:05.660]  Yeah, okay.
[50:05.820 --> 50:07.080]  But I'm telling you guys.
[50:07.540 --> 50:07.900]  Okay.
[50:08.000 --> 50:08.700]  No, you told us.
[50:08.700 --> 50:13.000]  Get these colors down, get this over with, let's move forward.
[50:13.140 --> 50:13.920]  Okay, thanks again.
[50:14.100 --> 50:14.740]  Thanks for calling.
[50:15.500 --> 50:19.860]  You know, one thing, though, that I do have to say concerning...
[50:19.860 --> 50:28.180]  I mean, I strongly believe that, you know, firing and banning people, or at least banning people, is a sign of something wrong that needs to be addressed.
[50:29.220 --> 50:31.100]  Programming decisions, though, I don't know.
[50:31.140 --> 50:36.560]  I've got to say that programming decisions are programming decisions, and every radio station makes them.
[50:37.120 --> 50:47.700]  And it's very hard to make every decision by committee, and that's just something, I think, as a radio programmer, you have to respect how that particular process works.
[50:47.760 --> 50:49.940]  Whether that process is working correctly, that's another issue.
[50:49.940 --> 51:04.680]  But to say that this particular person had a show, and that show should be restored, I think that might be a little, I don't know, that might be going a little too far, because you're basically dictating the way the station should be programmed.
[51:05.500 --> 51:11.120]  I don't believe people should be excluded in any way, but I don't know.
[51:11.220 --> 51:12.380]  Let's see what other listeners have to say.
[51:12.480 --> 51:16.200]  212-209-2950 is our pledge line.
[51:16.240 --> 51:18.180]  Let's see if we can get a couple more pledges in there.
[51:18.300 --> 51:20.340]  We have eight minutes left, seven minutes left.
[51:20.460 --> 51:22.240]  We have $5,160.
[51:22.860 --> 51:23.860]  We need $4,800.
[51:24.400 --> 51:25.000]  How much do we need?
[51:25.040 --> 51:27.560]  We need $4,800 to meet the goal of $10,000.
[51:29.800 --> 51:31.020]  We're setting the bar high.
[51:31.120 --> 51:34.080]  Why don't you make it per minute, how many that's going to be?
[51:34.540 --> 51:34.980]  Okay.
[51:35.460 --> 51:36.300]  Don't make us divide.
[51:36.480 --> 51:36.660]  Come on.
[51:36.700 --> 51:37.600]  $500 a minute.
[51:37.940 --> 51:38.260]  Well.
[51:39.420 --> 51:47.740]  But the point is that this is a most remarkable place where views on all sides can actually come together, and we wind up arguing.
[51:47.900 --> 51:50.340]  And we don't like sitting here saying the phone number over and over again.
[51:50.480 --> 51:52.160]  We'd rather be talking about hacking stuff.
[51:52.600 --> 51:53.100]  2-9-5-0.
[51:53.240 --> 51:54.240]  It deserves your support.
[51:54.360 --> 51:56.440]  Well, I'm practicing my war dialer tone.
[51:57.000 --> 51:58.720]  We have more people to thank.
[51:59.520 --> 52:00.660]  We have more people to thank.
[52:01.320 --> 52:02.160]  You know what, Isaac?
[52:02.160 --> 52:03.960]  I'm going to hand this to you because I can't read the handwriting.
[52:04.540 --> 52:04.980]  Oh, thanks.
[52:05.120 --> 52:05.280]  Yeah.
[52:06.240 --> 52:07.420]  It's really difficult.
[52:07.780 --> 52:09.260]  I'm going to try to squeeze in another phone call.
[52:09.320 --> 52:11.940]  I apologize to people for mispronunciations in the first place.
[52:12.420 --> 52:14.680]  We got Carl in Woodbridge, New Jersey.
[52:14.860 --> 52:15.200]  All right.
[52:16.200 --> 52:18.040]  Make sure it says yes to read their name.
[52:18.260 --> 52:19.000]  That's what I'm flipping through.
[52:19.000 --> 52:20.680]  Otherwise, we're subject to all kinds of legal things.
[52:20.860 --> 52:23.800]  We've got Mark from Hillsborough, North Carolina.
[52:23.940 --> 52:24.420]  All right.
[52:24.640 --> 52:25.360]  Yee-haw, Mark.
[52:25.640 --> 52:26.120]  North Carolina.
[52:26.440 --> 52:27.240]  We've got...
[52:28.280 --> 52:28.880]  I'm sorry.
[52:28.920 --> 52:31.180]  That looks like Srank from Brooklyn, New York.
[52:31.340 --> 52:32.120]  What does it look like?
[52:32.260 --> 52:33.300]  S-R-A-N-K.
[52:34.200 --> 52:35.220]  That's not so much Frank.
[52:35.480 --> 52:35.900]  That's a Frank.
[52:35.980 --> 52:37.000]  Probably Frank, yeah.
[52:37.060 --> 52:37.260]  Okay.
[52:37.440 --> 52:37.960]  I'm sorry.
[52:38.360 --> 52:40.120]  2-1-2-2-0-9-2-9-5-0.
[52:40.240 --> 52:41.060]  Two calls on the line.
[52:41.180 --> 52:42.060]  Let's make that seven.
[52:42.240 --> 52:43.320]  Because I like that number.
[52:43.860 --> 52:44.980]  We're in Washington, D.C.
[52:44.980 --> 52:46.240]  Paul from Brooklyn.
[52:47.280 --> 52:52.820]  We've got Brandon from Austin, Texas.
[52:53.040 --> 52:53.380]  All right.
[52:53.760 --> 52:54.400]  Yee-haw, Brandon.
[52:54.560 --> 52:55.120]  He's another fellow.
[52:55.280 --> 52:56.780]  Stop saying yee-haw to all these people.
[52:57.080 --> 52:57.700]  Really, dude.
[52:57.880 --> 52:58.580]  I'm from Oklahoma.
[52:58.840 --> 52:59.580]  We'll whoop you off.
[52:59.580 --> 53:00.000]  All right.
[53:00.440 --> 53:01.760]  Austin, Texas is pretty cool.
[53:01.760 --> 53:02.960]  Steve from beautiful Philadelphia, Pennsylvania.
[53:03.600 --> 53:07.820]  We have someone who didn't decide if they wanted to be mentioned or not, so I'll skip him.
[53:07.820 --> 53:08.500]  Well, no.
[53:08.900 --> 53:10.140]  The default is yes.
[53:10.360 --> 53:11.140]  The default is yes.
[53:11.340 --> 53:11.740]  Just the first name.
[53:11.840 --> 53:13.820]  Then thank you, Chris, from Burlington, Vermont.
[53:13.960 --> 53:14.280]  All right.
[53:14.840 --> 53:18.300]  We got Brandon from Northwest Washington, D.C.
[53:19.940 --> 53:22.380]  And Claudius from New York, New York.
[53:22.560 --> 53:22.920]  Okay.
[53:23.100 --> 53:25.220]  Let's quickly give the forums back.
[53:25.380 --> 53:29.340]  Thank you very much to the volunteers for their hard work and patience throughout all this.
[53:29.480 --> 53:30.160]  I like the new forums.
[53:30.360 --> 53:31.780]  Yeah, the new forums really look nice.
[53:32.040 --> 53:33.580]  2-1-2-2-0-9-2-9-5-0.
[53:33.740 --> 53:34.820]  Let's take one more call quickly.
[53:34.960 --> 53:35.220]  Go ahead.
[53:35.300 --> 53:35.900]  How are you doing, everyone?
[53:36.020 --> 53:36.400]  Oh, boy.
[53:36.400 --> 53:47.820]  Listen, the NLRB voted in favor of the workers, the volunteers, the unpaid workers who give of their efforts and creativity and so on.
[53:47.980 --> 53:51.600]  At the same time, it's a form of border, a very American thing.
[53:51.800 --> 53:58.840]  And yet the Pacifica Foundation chose to go back on the NLRB and demand a change.
[53:58.840 --> 53:59.720]  And they got it.
[53:59.860 --> 54:06.080]  Now, this has never been rectified in the administrativeness of the station.
[54:06.660 --> 54:13.860]  Because the Pacifica Foundation has been all-powerful with their people who are in power and so on.
[54:13.940 --> 54:14.780]  We have 30 seconds.
[54:14.980 --> 54:15.580]  Oh, honey.
[54:15.580 --> 54:16.780]  I'll give it up.
[54:17.020 --> 54:25.200]  You know, I made a supreme point there, and that's enough to condemn people who are bad-mouthing, people who are...
[54:25.200 --> 54:26.660]  We're not withholding the money.
[54:26.840 --> 54:33.400]  The Concerned Friends should have a moment on the air, and we could tell how much money we have that's ready to turn over.
[54:33.600 --> 54:43.640]  But the point is, we are not going to be a party to vagary and dishonesty and misfortunes of this station.
[54:43.640 --> 54:44.840]  We're trying to change things.
[54:45.160 --> 54:45.660]  Okay, thanks.
[54:45.780 --> 54:46.360]  Thanks for calling.
[54:46.500 --> 54:48.520]  Thanks for your long dedication to the station.
[54:48.640 --> 54:49.420]  We do appreciate it.
[54:50.040 --> 54:51.860]  And again, one last appeal.
[54:52.180 --> 54:54.800]  And folks, let's have a last flurry here.
[54:54.900 --> 55:04.580]  If you enjoyed the program tonight, if you got something out of it, if you feel that you had an opportunity to speak out and say something, please, this is the time to call in the last five minutes that we have.
[55:04.580 --> 55:06.500]  212-209-2950.
[55:06.740 --> 55:08.940]  Well, the lines will be open after we're gone.
[55:09.080 --> 55:11.060]  Yeah, but it won't count for this show.
[55:11.260 --> 55:11.520]  Right.
[55:11.640 --> 55:13.660]  And then, you know, we might as well just shut the show down.
[55:13.760 --> 55:26.900]  And you won't be able to get the $200 pledge for all the back issues of 2600, the $100 pledge for all the T-shirts and hats, or the $75 for the brand new mystery T-shirt, which has yet to be made, which will be.
[55:27.400 --> 55:28.760]  And, you know, you can add those together.
[55:28.760 --> 55:31.280]  You can pledge $300 and get all that stuff.
[55:31.580 --> 55:31.840]  Wow.
[55:31.840 --> 55:32.620]  Yeah, you can.
[55:32.800 --> 55:34.380]  212-209-2950.
[55:34.400 --> 55:35.180]  That's not adding it together, really.
[55:35.420 --> 55:36.660]  I mean, it would be $375.
[55:37.120 --> 55:42.100]  Well, don't forget, there's some really neat WBAI stuff, like mugs and tote bags and things like that.
[55:42.220 --> 55:46.100]  I mean, if you don't want to pledge $200, anything you got, we'll take it.
[55:46.720 --> 55:49.860]  There's a tally counselor in to answer your questions.
[55:50.120 --> 55:50.420]  To answer your questions.
[55:51.080 --> 55:51.940]  On what's available.
[55:52.160 --> 55:54.980]  What's the amount to get all of the premiums?
[55:55.380 --> 55:55.820]  Everything.
[55:56.120 --> 55:57.200]  How much money would you have to pledge?
[55:57.200 --> 55:58.720]  I mean, every premium BAI offers.
[55:58.880 --> 55:59.260]  Four grand.
[55:59.500 --> 55:59.960]  Call now.
[56:00.120 --> 56:00.880]  212-209.
[56:00.880 --> 56:02.500]  No, it's got to be more than that.
[56:02.700 --> 56:05.760]  We need $4,000 in the next minute and a half.
[56:06.680 --> 56:11.300]  I think that might be reaching a little bit, but 212-209-2950.
[56:11.320 --> 56:11.340]  I bet it's more like $6,000.
[56:12.740 --> 56:14.760]  212-209-2950 is our phone number.
[56:14.840 --> 56:16.840]  Please give us a call.
[56:16.940 --> 56:17.600]  Light up those lines.
[56:17.720 --> 56:19.980]  We have four calls on the line right now.
[56:20.420 --> 56:22.660]  Nuff said it's coming up next at 10 o'clock.
[56:22.840 --> 56:26.780]  And if those folks are around, they can come on in here and we'll hand things over to them.
[56:27.740 --> 56:29.040]  We have four calls on the line.
[56:29.180 --> 56:32.100]  We'd like to see it go into the second bank, so we need two more calls to do that.
[56:32.240 --> 56:33.000]  Okay, there's number five.
[56:33.260 --> 56:37.980]  Again, don't just call up to make the lights light up because we actually need the pledges, not the lights.
[56:38.120 --> 56:39.120]  You know, that's what's important.
[56:39.260 --> 56:41.080]  212-209-2950.
[56:41.080 --> 56:53.060]  So, pledge to keep WBAI going, pledge to keep this radio station here so that we can continue talking about things in the future and continue keeping this place here so that we can make it better.
[56:53.500 --> 56:54.560]  That's what it's all about.
[56:54.780 --> 56:59.960]  We did have the person who wrote the letter very concerned about me leaving the show and that little comment I made.
[57:00.060 --> 57:10.320]  But if that person is really concerned, they will call 212-209-2950 because despite what my wishes may be, if this station isn't here, I'm going to work.
[57:12.780 --> 57:14.240]  Someone's going to register that, you know.
[57:14.360 --> 57:15.300]  Oh, that'd be wonderful.
[57:15.600 --> 57:15.800]  Okay.
[57:16.060 --> 57:16.500]  Four it is.
[57:16.720 --> 57:19.900]  Well, I see our music means that our time is up.
[57:20.120 --> 57:25.040]  We made it over our goal, which is great, 5,160 and counting.
[57:25.360 --> 57:37.540]  You can still call in 212-209-2950, pledge $300 for, I guess, all the back issues and all the shirts and hats, or $200 for all the back issues of $2,600 or $100 for all the shirts and hats.
[57:39.360 --> 57:45.480]  Just call up and pledge whatever you can afford and keep this place going because it matters to all of us.
[57:45.960 --> 57:47.300]  I think we'll be here next week.
[57:47.380 --> 57:52.900]  I'm not sure if we're preempted or if we have a special show or something like that, but 8 o'clock is our normal time.
[57:53.000 --> 57:54.700]  Hopefully, we'll be here next week, if not the week after.
[57:55.360 --> 57:57.280]  Thanks, everybody who called in.
[57:57.360 --> 57:59.100]  Thanks, everybody, for showing their support and their concern.
[57:59.380 --> 58:00.120]  Stay tuned for enough said.
[58:00.220 --> 58:01.320]  This is Emmanuel Goldstein for everyone else.
[58:01.480 --> 58:01.720]  Good night.
[58:27.740 --> 58:28.180]  We'll see you next week.