[00:15.820 --> 00:20.740]  And you can hear a rebroadcast of tonight's evening news this evening at 11 p.m.
[00:21.320 --> 00:26.820]  It's currently 7 p.m., and this is not Mike Levine, and I am not an expert witness.
[00:27.000 --> 00:27.760]  This is Emmanuel Goldstein.
[00:27.960 --> 00:35.640]  I'm usually here an hour from now, but we're turning the clocks back tonight because it's a special fundraising edition of Off the Hook.
[00:46.420 --> 00:48.420]  I cut myself while shaving.
[00:48.940 --> 00:51.040]  Now I can't make a cough.
[00:51.720 --> 00:53.820]  We couldn't get much worse.
[00:54.500 --> 00:56.380]  But if they could, they would.
[00:56.660 --> 00:59.320]  Von Dillibom for the best, expect the worst.
[00:59.980 --> 01:01.860]  I hope that's understood.
[01:02.040 --> 01:02.920]  Von Dillibom!
[02:00.770 --> 02:02.050]  And a good evening to everybody.
[02:02.050 --> 02:03.390]  The program is Off the Hook.
[02:03.390 --> 02:07.390]  We're here with you for a three-hour special fundraising edition.
[02:08.430 --> 02:25.670]  We must do this occasionally to keep the radio station going, to keep things where they are, as far as a 50,000-watt radio station in the middle of the FM dial in New York City that can bring you programs like this and all the other ones that you hear throughout the week.
[02:26.750 --> 02:30.290]  We'll have all kinds of special offers and deals and things like that for you.
[02:31.150 --> 02:33.810]  But first, let me introduce a couple of people.
[02:33.810 --> 02:35.650]  Well, Laszlo's here.
[02:35.810 --> 02:38.330]  Laszlo, you know, you always seem to be here when we're asking for money.
[02:38.670 --> 02:41.790]  That is because I could talk about the other side.
[02:41.950 --> 02:43.810]  Yeah, you've been to the other side and back.
[02:44.870 --> 02:45.270]  Amazing.
[02:45.830 --> 02:47.210]  And of course, Mike is here, as always.
[02:47.470 --> 02:47.890]  I'm here.
[02:48.110 --> 02:48.470]  How are you doing?
[02:48.710 --> 02:49.230]  I'm all right.
[02:49.470 --> 02:51.470]  How's life up north at Columbia University?
[02:51.630 --> 02:52.650]  Very far north.
[02:53.750 --> 02:54.610]  It's pretty good.
[02:54.850 --> 02:55.070]  Uh-huh.
[02:55.390 --> 02:55.850]  Is it really?
[02:56.130 --> 02:56.370]  Yeah.
[02:56.510 --> 02:58.130]  Never heard it described quite that way before.
[02:58.890 --> 02:59.970]  And Chris joins us.
[03:00.550 --> 03:00.890]  Good evening.
[03:01.030 --> 03:01.370]  How are you doing?
[03:01.750 --> 03:02.130]  Very good.
[03:02.830 --> 03:04.050]  It's been a while since you've been here, actually.
[03:04.690 --> 03:04.890]  Yeah.
[03:05.350 --> 03:07.190]  It goes back to the brain damage days.
[03:07.250 --> 03:07.410]  Yeah.
[03:07.570 --> 03:12.550]  Chris, one of my old broadcasting partners from way back at the other radio station on Long Island.
[03:13.950 --> 03:15.230]  Boy, those were the days, weren't they?
[03:15.350 --> 03:15.690]  Oh, yeah.
[03:15.790 --> 03:15.930]  Yeah.
[03:16.090 --> 03:18.090]  Almost anything went on that radio station.
[03:18.190 --> 03:20.210]  In fact, to this day, almost anything goes over there.
[03:20.290 --> 03:20.690]  Still does.
[03:20.850 --> 03:21.730]  It's really something.
[03:22.490 --> 03:25.110]  We have a couple of special guests.
[03:25.170 --> 03:27.790]  Well, one special guest has been joining us along with Bernie S.
[03:27.890 --> 03:28.190]  in a moment.
[03:28.350 --> 03:39.810]  But I just wanted to have this opportunity to give people a chance to say whatever is on their minds for the three hours ahead, I guess.
[03:41.290 --> 03:44.850]  I haven't talked to at least a couple of you since events of last month.
[03:45.610 --> 03:46.710]  At least not on the radio.
[03:47.610 --> 03:52.610]  So, and, uh, any, any, any thoughts or things you guys want to, uh, want to say?
[03:52.990 --> 03:55.310]  I just, I got back from North Carolina a couple weeks ago.
[03:55.410 --> 03:55.590]  Uh-huh.
[03:55.670 --> 03:58.130]  There's very angry people in the South about this whole deal.
[03:58.550 --> 03:58.910]  Really?
[03:59.050 --> 04:01.190]  Yeah, they're, they're angry and it's on their marquees.
[04:01.270 --> 04:03.510]  When you go by stores, it says, punish the guilty.
[04:03.870 --> 04:04.830]  Bait 50% off.
[04:05.390 --> 04:07.470]  And, uh, God bless America.
[04:07.710 --> 04:08.730]  T-shirts, three for $10.
[04:09.610 --> 04:12.290]  Now, have the, have the prices for shirts come down?
[04:12.290 --> 04:17.150]  I mean, are, are people, uh, donating, um, the manufacturer of, of, of shirts?
[04:17.470 --> 04:21.130]  Or is it, is it pretty much, uh, you know, they're, they're selling them for the usual price?
[04:21.250 --> 04:22.410]  I mean, I was just curious about that.
[04:22.550 --> 04:28.710]  I see people selling American flags on the street and I'm wondering, are they selling them for, for a cost or are they making a profit off of this?
[04:28.810 --> 04:29.630]  I think they're making a profit.
[04:29.690 --> 04:33.490]  I was at a lumber yard today where a guy walked in and was selling posters at the Twin Towers.
[04:33.770 --> 04:34.030]  Uh-huh.
[04:34.210 --> 04:34.610]  Three dollar.
[04:35.830 --> 04:37.190]  Okay, well, you know, whatever.
[04:38.310 --> 04:46.850]  We've seen a lot of the good, a lot of the bad, and, uh, some of what we're going to be talking about tonight is, um, where it's all going.
[04:47.450 --> 04:50.970]  Already we've seen it going into some very disturbing and, and, and dark places.
[04:51.530 --> 04:57.810]  And I fear it's going to be going into even darker places before we're done, if we ever actually manage to get finished.
[04:59.330 --> 05:19.690]  A couple of, uh, thanks that we want to give out to, uh, to area merchants, Cafe Water, 130, uh, Water Street, uh, in New York, and, uh, Texas Rotisserie and Grill, 94 Fulton Street, for, uh, donating sustenance to the, uh, many volunteers who are here and donating their time to answer the phones.
[05:20.750 --> 05:29.230]  Our, uh, phone number for donations, and we'll be giving out the, uh, information as to what, uh, what precisely you can get if you donate to us.
[05:29.310 --> 05:32.610]  The phone number is, uh, 212-968-0500.
[05:33.010 --> 05:44.690]  Now, if, uh, if you're out there and you just know that you want to give something to us and you don't care what you get in return, which I guess is, is probably the best type of person that's out there, then do give that number a call right now, 212-968-0500.
[05:45.410 --> 05:50.610]  Otherwise, um, stay tuned and listen to, uh, some of the things we bring you in the three hours ahead.
[05:51.370 --> 05:57.830]  And, uh, if that doesn't convince you to call in and pledge and keep this place going, I don't know what can.
[05:59.030 --> 06:05.950]  You know, you say a lot of not-for-profits are in big trouble these days because everybody's funneling their money to the, uh, World Trade Center funds.
[06:06.170 --> 06:09.470]  Well, I don't want to, I don't want to make it seem like we're in competition with something like that, but...
[06:09.470 --> 06:13.050]  I know, but it just, it seems, it seems like there should be a balance.
[06:13.050 --> 06:20.330]  Well, I would hope, I would hope people would just, um, you know, look into themselves a little bit more and, and, and realize what kinds of things are important and valuable.
[06:20.750 --> 06:30.130]  And, uh, I hope that non-commercial radio, radio where you can think, where you can talk, where you can express yourself, I would hope that's something that is considered valuable enough to support.
[06:30.630 --> 06:35.730]  And, uh, certainly there are a lot of other things out there that are valuable and important and need to be supported as well.
[06:36.650 --> 06:43.630]  And, uh, then there are a lot of, uh, crass commercial things that we waste all our time and money on, which hopefully we can take a good look at now and say, Hey, boy, that's a waste of time.
[06:44.490 --> 06:49.890]  You know, there's a limited number of sincere things that you can contribute to.
[06:49.970 --> 06:52.510]  And I think this program here is one of them.
[06:53.250 --> 06:55.190]  So again, you agree, Chris?
[06:55.290 --> 06:55.410]  Yeah.
[06:55.670 --> 06:58.170]  Okay, I thought maybe you were objecting to that.
[06:58.290 --> 06:58.750]  All right, good.
[06:59.730 --> 07:02.070]  212-968-0500 is the number to call.
[07:02.130 --> 07:06.030]  I don't know if the little switchboard here actually works and lights up.
[07:06.650 --> 07:08.870]  So I can't tell for sure if calls are coming in.
[07:08.930 --> 07:12.190]  I'm not going to have that annoying phone ringing in the background thing.
[07:12.190 --> 07:12.610]  I hate that.
[07:12.690 --> 07:13.550]  It reminds me of Channel 13.
[07:14.710 --> 07:17.090]  So do give us a call, 212-968-0500.
[07:17.110 --> 07:19.710]  We'll be back in a moment with our special guest.
[11:33.970 --> 11:34.970]  And we're back.
[11:35.770 --> 11:36.890]  The program is off the hook.
[11:37.610 --> 11:39.870]  And, Lazlo, what is that you're playing with over there?
[11:40.050 --> 11:41.190]  This is a VR500.
[11:41.410 --> 11:42.750]  I'm trying to tune in the Taliban.
[11:44.130 --> 11:47.830]  Now, I've got a list of their frequencies here, but I think they're off the air.
[11:47.890 --> 11:49.250]  You're getting some serious interference there.
[11:49.370 --> 11:50.710]  Yeah, I don't know what it is.
[11:50.850 --> 11:52.330]  All right, well, that's Bernie about this.
[11:52.330 --> 11:55.670]  That's... well, Bernie happens to be joining us right now on the telephone.
[11:55.870 --> 11:56.750]  Bernie, are you with us?
[11:57.470 --> 11:59.750]  Yes, from the city of Brotherly Love, Philadelphia.
[12:00.030 --> 12:00.270]  Philadelphia.
[12:01.750 --> 12:02.990]  Lazlo's playing with a scanner.
[12:03.130 --> 12:04.790]  I'm not sure if it's even an authorized scanner.
[12:04.910 --> 12:06.910]  It might be one of those unauthorized ones.
[12:08.270 --> 12:08.630]  But...
[12:08.630 --> 12:10.310]  We won't touch on that part.
[12:10.410 --> 12:11.350]  No, we won't touch on that part.
[12:11.350 --> 12:12.430]  But I have a scanner, too.
[12:13.070 --> 12:16.730]  In fact, the theme of this first hour is pretty much radio.
[12:16.870 --> 12:20.950]  Not the AM-FM type of radio, but the radio you get in other types of places.
[12:21.410 --> 12:26.510]  That includes scanners, and that includes something, a phenomenon known as shortwave radio.
[12:27.730 --> 12:41.070]  And with us on the line is publisher of a terrific book, Passport to World Band Radio, which is something that is a must for anybody at all interested in the shortwave spectrum.
[12:41.290 --> 12:46.590]  And if you have no idea what the shortwave spectrum is, what it's all about, what you can hear on shortwave, don't worry.
[12:46.690 --> 12:48.210]  We'll explain all that to you.
[12:49.070 --> 12:52.710]  Larry Magnet joins us from... actually, you know, I don't know where he is.
[12:52.790 --> 12:53.970]  I think he's in Pennsylvania somewhere.
[12:54.070 --> 12:54.510]  Larry, are you there?
[12:54.510 --> 12:55.370]  Yes, I am.
[12:55.450 --> 12:55.950]  Emmanuel, hi.
[12:56.150 --> 12:56.570]  How are you doing?
[12:56.710 --> 12:58.070]  We're doing just very well.
[12:58.230 --> 13:01.330]  We're in Bucks County, Pennsylvania, between New York and Philadelphia.
[13:01.530 --> 13:02.030]  Oh, okay.
[13:02.250 --> 13:03.190]  And the countryside.
[13:04.590 --> 13:06.190]  And we are here in one piece.
[13:06.590 --> 13:09.770]  Now, tell us something about, first of all, shortwave in general.
[13:09.930 --> 13:13.270]  Maybe both you and Bernie can trade information on this.
[13:13.390 --> 13:18.590]  But basically, for somebody who has never picked up a shortwave radio in their lives, what's out there for them?
[13:18.870 --> 13:21.750]  It's like AM and FM, except it goes long haul.
[13:22.370 --> 13:27.030]  It consists mostly of what we would consider to be public broadcasters.
[13:27.170 --> 13:35.150]  That is, they're government broadcasters or NGO, non-government type, non-profit organizations.
[13:35.730 --> 13:37.790]  And some also are private.
[13:37.790 --> 13:39.490]  And most do not have ads.
[13:39.630 --> 13:40.430]  They have news.
[13:40.570 --> 13:41.250]  They have music.
[13:41.450 --> 13:45.610]  They have entertainment, propaganda, religion, politics, you name it.
[13:45.610 --> 13:49.590]  It's kind of like the world's gathering spot for ideas.
[13:50.410 --> 13:52.830]  And how far do the signals actually wind up going?
[13:53.050 --> 13:57.170]  The signals, it depends on the time of day and all kinds of other considerations.
[13:57.170 --> 13:58.290]  But they go global.
[13:58.570 --> 14:05.490]  You can pick up a signal from halfway across the world, just like you can pick up a signal from maybe a few states away.
[14:05.690 --> 14:08.730]  Because there are transmitters in the United States as well.
[14:08.930 --> 14:12.710]  Now, give us an idea of the kinds of things that you could hear.
[14:12.710 --> 14:14.990]  I mean, wouldn't most of these broadcasts be in different languages?
[14:15.390 --> 14:18.130]  Most of them are in languages other than English.
[14:18.290 --> 14:23.670]  But then on the other hand, there's something like, I think we counted once 20,000 or some such entries in our database.
[14:24.410 --> 14:32.530]  There are so many stations on the air that even if you pick up only a small fraction of them in English, the number is still quite large.
[14:32.750 --> 14:36.510]  But the main thing is the sense of being directly connected.
[14:36.770 --> 14:38.650]  You don't have any wires.
[14:38.810 --> 14:40.190]  You don't have any gatekeepers.
[14:40.190 --> 14:43.230]  There's no one along the way to filter or edit what you get.
[14:43.430 --> 14:48.830]  The signals bounce off a gaseous layer around the Earth called the ionosphere.
[14:49.310 --> 14:51.610]  And this is like a dribbled basketball.
[14:51.870 --> 14:59.550]  It goes down off the Earth or the oceans, back up, hits this invisible gaseous layer and bounces back down until it reaches your radio.
[14:59.770 --> 15:02.170]  So it goes quite a great distance that way.
[15:02.370 --> 15:07.430]  And as a result, there's no one between you and the person trying to reach you.
[15:07.430 --> 15:09.030]  And that's really a secret.
[15:09.190 --> 15:09.790]  It gets through.
[15:09.790 --> 15:11.750]  It gets through whether it's jammed.
[15:11.850 --> 15:14.390]  It gets through whether someone doesn't want it to get into the borders.
[15:14.610 --> 15:16.070]  There's really no regulation.
[15:16.170 --> 15:20.490]  So you get unfiltered, uncensored news and ideas.
[15:20.770 --> 15:22.790]  Well, now, there is jamming that goes on.
[15:22.870 --> 15:24.210]  How effective is that jamming?
[15:24.930 --> 15:28.350]  Jamming has gone on since the first shortwave transmitter went on, I think.
[15:28.390 --> 15:29.950]  It goes back to the 30s.
[15:29.950 --> 15:35.710]  And the Comintern jammed the Nazis, the Nazis jammed the Comintern, and so forth.
[15:35.830 --> 15:37.870]  It's been this way now for years and years.
[15:38.630 --> 15:52.770]  The beauty of shortwave is, yes, there's a certain efficacy of jamming, but because of the nature of the radio waves, they're scattered all over, it's very hard for technical reasons for jammers to work except in limited circumstances.
[15:53.530 --> 16:00.850]  During the Soviet era, there were quite a number of transmitters operated by the KGB and also in Eastern Europe.
[16:01.270 --> 16:05.290]  The transmitters that were actually in cities operated fairly well.
[16:05.410 --> 16:10.730]  But once you got out to the countryside or the suburbs, they were only marginally effective.
[16:11.050 --> 16:26.090]  The result is that the Cold War, when you talk to people who were involved in the labor and resistance movement during the 40s and 50s and 60s, most of these people will tell you that the decisive factor wasn't the armaments or the military.
[16:26.450 --> 16:28.990]  It was what they got over the air.
[16:29.150 --> 16:34.650]  For example, the Voice of America used to have Willis Conover with his jazz show.
[16:35.170 --> 16:40.610]  Willis Conover lived in Maryland, and in his own neighborhood, he was considered to be something of a nobody.
[16:40.890 --> 16:45.290]  People wouldn't invite him to the local parties and things because they didn't think he was amounting to anything.
[16:45.650 --> 16:53.490]  But when Willis went to Eastern Europe, throngs of people would turn out for him more than they would for heads of state, and they would strew flowers in his path.
[16:53.930 --> 16:59.450]  He was considered to be almost like nobility would be in Thailand or in England.
[17:00.670 --> 17:02.150]  And it was just remarkable.
[17:02.330 --> 17:07.390]  That one jazz show probably did as much to end the Cold War as anything else.
[17:07.430 --> 17:09.070]  And, of course, it was on shortly.
[17:09.470 --> 17:15.810]  Now, a lot of people in the United States, which is where the bulk of our listeners are, have not heard shortwave.
[17:16.090 --> 17:17.710]  They don't listen to shortwave on a regular basis.
[17:17.850 --> 17:20.630]  They miss out on all these things, these references that you're making.
[17:20.750 --> 17:23.610]  Voice of America, I bet many of our listeners have never even heard Voice of America.
[17:24.150 --> 17:25.250]  Why do you think that is?
[17:25.310 --> 17:31.270]  Why do you think Americans, as a rule, have not taken such an interest in shortwave as the rest of the world has?
[17:31.450 --> 17:32.670]  Well, we're a free country.
[17:32.710 --> 17:38.850]  We have so many media from which to choose that it's not the same thing as, for example, in Afghanistan.
[17:38.850 --> 17:43.330]  In Afghanistan, over 80 percent of the adult males listen to shortwave.
[17:43.550 --> 17:43.910]  Why?
[17:44.050 --> 17:45.950]  Because they can't trust the Taliban media.
[17:47.190 --> 17:48.890]  So there is a difference.
[17:49.050 --> 17:50.430]  Here it's a voluntary act.
[17:50.430 --> 17:53.070]  In most other countries, it's an act of desperation.
[17:53.770 --> 17:57.650]  But there is a surprisingly large number of people listening here.
[17:57.850 --> 18:02.530]  And what surprised even me is the growth in recent times.
[18:02.570 --> 18:07.050]  We expected webcasting and things of this nature to pick up the slack.
[18:07.050 --> 18:20.190]  What we found is that world band or shortwave listening has grown faster and reached a higher plateau than webcasting, which really surprised us because we have books in both fields.
[18:20.310 --> 18:21.670]  Or we had books in both fields.
[18:21.670 --> 18:23.570]  We still have books in shortwave.
[18:25.070 --> 18:27.610]  And we were really taken aback.
[18:27.930 --> 18:32.110]  It seems that people like that sense of directedness.
[18:32.650 --> 18:34.430]  You're connected straight through.
[18:34.650 --> 18:37.590]  And also, you can surf like you surf on TV.
[18:37.650 --> 18:41.490]  But you can surf very nicely on shortwave.
[18:41.710 --> 18:44.390]  There are literally hundreds of channels.
[18:44.670 --> 18:47.570]  And each one at a different time might have something different.
[18:47.770 --> 18:52.330]  This channel might have something from, you know, in the morning, you come back later in the afternoon.
[18:52.330 --> 18:54.170]  That same channel has somebody else.
[18:54.310 --> 18:56.050]  So it's a bit of a fishing expedition.
[18:56.650 --> 18:58.810]  And people really seem to enjoy it.
[18:58.890 --> 19:06.690]  Not so much for pleasure, but for the sense of being connected directly to a variety of cultures worldwide.
[19:07.150 --> 19:12.010]  Now, you mentioned that there are more shortwave listeners now than ever before.
[19:12.230 --> 19:25.990]  How does that relate to what the BBC did recently as far as North American broadcasts, where they curtailed them, and use the reason that there are more people listening on the Internet now, so they don't need to use shortwave to get to us?
[19:26.430 --> 19:33.950]  Well, if you get to the reasons behind it, I think you get involved with personalities, careers, ambitions, and so forth at the BBC.
[19:34.810 --> 19:36.390]  I don't think there's any question.
[19:36.390 --> 19:40.630]  But if they could gracefully change that situation, they would.
[19:41.310 --> 19:50.710]  By now, so many people have staked their careers on this, that it would be hard to withdraw.
[19:50.890 --> 19:58.670]  But I wouldn't be surprised if it comes back, because what they're finding is that the things they said were the ways of the future are not going anywhere.
[19:59.850 --> 20:07.890]  The local relays that they carry are very fine and well, but they only carry certain newscasts, often only a few minutes' worth.
[20:08.510 --> 20:23.010]  On shortwave, you pick them up 24 hours a day, seven days a week, and you pick up not only bits of newscasts, but you get in-depth news analysis, you get plays, drama, you get comedy, you get all kinds of things, sports.
[20:24.090 --> 20:31.430]  Similarly, on the web, it's a wonderful medium if you need something like music that's fairly consistent.
[20:31.650 --> 20:47.790]  The problem with the web is that, unlike regular broadcast, the more listeners you have, the higher the cost, and the more likely there is to be interference with your signal, because the backbones and the servers get clogged up, your packet time increases,
[20:47.810 --> 20:50.370]  and finally, of course, there's just total congestion.
[20:50.890 --> 21:02.230]  So during a news event, such as what happened recently in New York, when people went to news sites for webcasts, more often than not, they got nowhere because everything was congested.
[21:02.370 --> 21:11.150]  On the other hand, if you turn on a shortwave radio, it doesn't matter with AM, FM, shortwave, any kind of over-the-air radio, whether you have one listener or one million.
[21:11.610 --> 21:18.050]  So for news, regular radio has turned out to be more appropriate than webcasting.
[21:18.050 --> 21:23.450]  On the other hand, for music, webcasting, I think, is more appropriate than shortwave.
[21:23.710 --> 21:29.370]  Now, you think that BBC is actually going to restore the service to North America at some point?
[21:29.430 --> 21:31.070]  Do they still have the frequencies to do this?
[21:31.390 --> 21:33.830]  They've lost a number of their frequencies.
[21:34.010 --> 21:34.970]  That's a very good point.
[21:35.370 --> 21:42.610]  We do know that quiet inquiries were made by some of their people to see if the frequencies were still available.
[21:42.610 --> 21:51.930]  They were quite miffed that they weren't, but I think we're dealing with some very bureaucratic considerations here, that egos have been put on the line.
[21:53.670 --> 21:57.650]  It gets into that kind of thing more than the logic behind it.
[21:58.170 --> 22:04.510]  I think it comes down to this, that people, including us at one time, saw the future one way.
[22:04.690 --> 22:09.090]  The future has turned out to be a great deal more old technology than we thought it would be.
[22:09.910 --> 22:13.170]  We hung our hat on that to some extent, and we found it wasn't true.
[22:13.410 --> 22:15.930]  They hung their hat on it, and I think they're finding it's not true.
[22:16.010 --> 22:21.330]  And the question is, what do you do once you've made these statements about where you're going?
[22:22.390 --> 22:24.250]  And it becomes a faith-saving thing.
[22:24.410 --> 22:29.710]  So whether they go back or they don't go back, I can't be sure, but I do know this.
[22:29.710 --> 22:42.690]  The nature of shortwave is such that even though they don't beam directly to North America, they have relay transmitters in the Caribbean, and those transmitters put out a signal that gets into North America almost as well as it did before.
[22:42.910 --> 22:49.490]  So, real world, people are still listening in huge numbers to the BBC in North America on shortwave.
[22:49.590 --> 22:51.750]  I think one of the frequencies is 5975?
[22:52.030 --> 22:52.530]  That's correct.
[22:52.710 --> 22:53.930]  Yeah, I picked that up.
[22:54.090 --> 23:01.770]  In fact, last week, actually about two weeks ago, myself and a friend went on a drive through New Brunswick, Newfoundland.
[23:01.770 --> 23:06.850]  We passed a huge shortwave station, I think somewhere in New Brunswick on the highway.
[23:06.930 --> 23:07.890]  You probably know which one it is.
[23:07.950 --> 23:08.270]  That's correct.
[23:08.290 --> 23:09.890]  That's Radio Canada International.
[23:10.110 --> 23:13.050]  That's the Sackville, New Brunswick site.
[23:13.190 --> 23:14.090]  That's exactly what it was.
[23:14.150 --> 23:17.630]  And I was amazed by how vast the expanse was.
[23:17.770 --> 23:18.590]  There are antennas everywhere.
[23:18.610 --> 23:21.870]  I guess to broadcast via shortwave, it's not the same thing.
[23:21.950 --> 23:22.810]  It's just putting up a tower.
[23:23.490 --> 23:25.350]  Well, you can just put up a tower.
[23:25.350 --> 23:42.950]  There are small stations in Latin America and in Africa that operate domestic services, like your station, for example, on shortwave, and they just have a little tower or a 50- or 100-foot piece of wire, but they don't get very far.
[23:43.150 --> 23:49.830]  But if you wish to broadcast with a high-powered signal halfway across the world, yes, you have these huge antennas that are directional.
[23:49.830 --> 23:56.210]  They take what is already a powerful transmitter signal and they focus it on one part of the world.
[23:56.670 --> 24:03.830]  But, again, what's interesting is that these signals, even though they're focused on one part of the world, do reach many other parts of the world.
[24:03.970 --> 24:05.710]  It's just that they're not quite as strong.
[24:06.110 --> 24:18.130]  So, for example, the Voice of America you mentioned earlier, that has been mandated by Congress since its inception not to broadcast to North Americans or to Americans.
[24:18.790 --> 24:20.070]  It's an odd situation.
[24:20.070 --> 24:29.750]  It's supposed to be an objective broadcaster, and yet the reason it's not supposed to broadcast to Americans is that they don't want government propaganda reaching our ears.
[24:30.150 --> 24:31.670]  However, all this is for naught.
[24:31.850 --> 24:34.170]  Only in Washington can you come up with a law like that.
[24:34.230 --> 24:44.590]  It doesn't mean anything because shortwave scatters all over the world, and you can hear the Voice of America anywhere in the United States just as well as if you were in Europe or Africa.
[24:44.590 --> 24:52.030]  Now, when you say that it's mandated that Voice of America not be broadcast to the United States, does that mean you're breaking some kind of law when you listen?
[24:52.290 --> 24:53.010]  Oh, no, no.
[24:53.010 --> 24:59.770]  It's just one of those foolish laws like, you know, horses can't walk in the left lane on Sundays or something.
[24:59.950 --> 25:03.750]  You know, we're full of laws that mean nothing, and this is one of them.
[25:03.850 --> 25:06.150]  The law applies to the broadcaster.
[25:06.510 --> 25:08.470]  It applies to the Voice of America.
[25:08.470 --> 25:15.470]  But since there's no way that physics can be changed regardless of what politicians may dictate, they beam the transmissions.
[25:16.170 --> 25:21.830]  The antennas are beamed to different parts of the world, but still, the signal gets to our antennas.
[25:22.050 --> 25:22.870]  So we can hear them.
[25:22.970 --> 25:28.810]  It's often interesting to listen to Voice of America as they're beaming to other parts of the world to hear what they're saying to those other parts of the world.
[25:28.970 --> 25:29.790]  And we should.
[25:29.910 --> 25:30.650]  We're paying for it.
[25:30.770 --> 25:31.950]  We should know what they're up to.
[25:32.050 --> 25:35.590]  And when you read things in the paper, should the Voice of America do this, do that?
[25:36.110 --> 25:43.530]  Granted, most people listen to the English broadcasts, but for those who are multilingual, of course, they can listen to the other broadcasts as well.
[25:43.630 --> 25:44.670]  And it's quite instructive.
[25:44.770 --> 26:01.730]  For example, although I haven't seen anything in the media about it, I'm quite surprised that Afghan refugees living in California complained to Representative Royce, who's in Congress, that the Voice of America broadcasts sounded as though they were pro-Taliban.
[26:01.730 --> 26:06.350]  Well, you know, not many people speak those languages, so it was checked out.
[26:06.350 --> 26:10.530]  And as I'm told from people in Washington, they found that was true.
[26:10.650 --> 26:18.170]  They had pro-Taliban people intensely involved in the Voice of America broadcasts, which is obviously rather embarrassing.
[26:18.370 --> 26:22.110]  And they're trying to find replacements, but not many people speak those languages.
[26:22.570 --> 26:33.730]  But the point is that because Americans had shortwave radios and they spoke those unusual languages, that they were able to monitor it and find something going on that was really quite harmful to the country.
[26:34.670 --> 26:41.330]  It seems like a real primary source of information that's not filtered through other news agencies.
[26:41.370 --> 26:53.270]  I know there's controversy now about people in the United States being able to hear things directly from Osama bin Laden, but if he was to broadcast something over shortwave, there'd be nobody who could stand in the way and say, well, you can't hear this,
[26:53.290 --> 26:54.850]  or this has to be edited before you can hear it.
[26:54.850 --> 27:00.930]  It seems like shortwave is a much more effective way for various groups, good or bad, to communicate around the world.
[27:01.770 --> 27:02.530]  That's correct.
[27:02.530 --> 27:22.270]  And for whatever reason, the Taliban has chosen not to do this, because at present they're using a Middle Eastern television service, which means that if people are going to watch it here, except for a few people who have exotic dishes, they have to go through ABC and the other networks.
[27:22.270 --> 27:27.350]  Well, the White House has put pressure on them not to put this through uncensored.
[27:27.730 --> 27:34.090]  So if you were looking for uncensored news of that sort, yes, it could come through on shortwave, and there's nothing anybody could do about it.
[27:34.290 --> 27:39.710]  However, the Taliban has not done that, at least as of yet, and as far as I know, they have no plans to.
[27:39.870 --> 27:41.410]  Bernie, let me bring you in for a second.
[27:41.630 --> 27:44.290]  Tell us some of the interesting things you've heard on shortwave over the years.
[27:45.070 --> 27:53.250]  Well, Emmanuel, I think that opened up my eyes to the world back when I was, gee, I think I was 14, a few years ago anyway.
[27:55.430 --> 28:03.090]  You know, this was before the Internet was really in existence and available to the average person, including myself back then.
[28:03.410 --> 28:07.890]  And I lived in a very rural area at that time in my life.
[28:07.890 --> 28:10.730]  I was miles from the nearest paved road.
[28:11.090 --> 28:14.410]  And there was no local radio station.
[28:14.470 --> 28:17.990]  There wasn't a radio station within 20 or 30 miles from my home.
[28:19.210 --> 28:27.570]  And so I ran into somebody who had an old shortwave radio and bought it from him and was just amazed at the diversity of programming that I could hear.
[28:27.750 --> 28:30.150]  And I was glued to that thing for the next few years.
[28:30.850 --> 28:33.130]  Didn't have much of a social life, and I couldn't go anywhere.
[28:33.130 --> 28:37.590]  But I learned an awful lot about different countries and their cultures.
[28:38.610 --> 28:41.330]  And it was just an amazing thing.
[28:41.510 --> 28:56.790]  And this was really, you know, this catchphrase, this information superhighway that we all seem to dislike, that really described the shortwave years prior to the Internet being available to the common person.
[28:56.990 --> 29:00.390]  So I still make use of shortwave on a regular basis.
[29:00.390 --> 29:07.150]  In fact, I recently picked up a shortwave radio that we were discussing last week on the show that I can put in a car.
[29:07.690 --> 29:09.970]  And it doesn't cost any more than a regular car stereo.
[29:10.170 --> 29:11.230]  It's like a hundred-some dollars.
[29:11.390 --> 29:12.430]  Now, did those radios arrive?
[29:13.110 --> 29:13.510]  I'm sorry?
[29:13.670 --> 29:14.710]  Did those radios arrive?
[29:14.950 --> 29:15.490]  They have.
[29:15.630 --> 29:17.150]  And you'll be getting yours soon.
[29:17.270 --> 29:20.630]  And I think Mr. Flash will be getting his soon as well.
[29:20.710 --> 29:21.010]  Excellent.
[29:21.090 --> 29:27.290]  So this is an actual car radio that you can plug into your car and listen to shortwave radio as you're driving around, which is the coolest thing.
[29:27.290 --> 29:32.570]  It looks like a regular Sony car stereo, but it mounts where any car stereo would mount.
[29:32.650 --> 29:37.570]  But in addition to AM, FM, and a cassette, it receives most international shortwave bands.
[29:37.910 --> 29:43.310]  I'm curious, and maybe Larry would have some comment on this, why this particular...
[29:43.310 --> 29:44.270]  You might be familiar with, Larry.
[29:44.330 --> 29:44.550]  I don't know.
[29:44.650 --> 29:47.570]  It's the Sony CA620X.
[29:47.810 --> 29:52.530]  Yeah, it's the same electronics as the one we tested in Passport 2001.
[29:53.230 --> 29:53.530]  Exactly.
[29:54.130 --> 30:01.230]  Why do you think that Sony has not sought FCC certification to be able to sell that radio in this country?
[30:01.330 --> 30:03.250]  They can't legally sell that radio in this country.
[30:03.290 --> 30:03.650]  Isn't that right?
[30:03.890 --> 30:04.490]  That's correct.
[30:04.490 --> 30:06.090]  But the reason is fairly simple.
[30:06.110 --> 30:06.870]  There's no market.
[30:08.350 --> 30:12.230]  Phillips came in with a very nice radio about seven or eight years ago.
[30:12.690 --> 30:15.350]  It had a huge ad budget and promotional budget.
[30:15.470 --> 30:17.710]  It even got a feature in Playboy.
[30:18.430 --> 30:19.610]  It's a good radio.
[30:19.610 --> 30:21.210]  There was nothing wrong at all with it.
[30:21.830 --> 30:25.490]  They tried and tried and tried, and they couldn't give away those radios.
[30:27.050 --> 30:28.710]  Becker tried the same thing.
[30:28.850 --> 30:32.730]  They, of course, are a German company that make the radios for Mercedes-Benz.
[30:33.710 --> 30:44.170]  They tried the same thing because there was a fellow in Long Island who was certain that, notwithstanding Phillips' experience, that with a little enthusiasm, any mountain could be climbed.
[30:44.450 --> 30:49.390]  And so anyway, he set up an operation strictly for this, and, of course, it went belly up, too.
[30:50.430 --> 30:51.770]  Sony knows the numbers.
[30:51.930 --> 30:52.650]  They're a big company.
[30:52.790 --> 30:54.710]  They want thousands of radios to be sold.
[30:54.990 --> 31:01.710]  You have to remember that every year they sell in this country about 1.3 million shortwave portables.
[31:02.030 --> 31:07.990]  I just talked to the CEO of Grundig the other day, and he tells me that the numbers are fourfold.
[31:08.610 --> 31:10.530]  I talked to Universal Radio the other day.
[31:10.650 --> 31:11.130]  Same thing.
[31:11.270 --> 31:12.570]  Roughly fourfold increase.
[31:13.230 --> 31:20.390]  So I don't know that this is going to mean a long-term selling rate of around 5 million radios per year, but it's a huge number.
[31:20.770 --> 31:25.210]  Meanwhile, the car radios were doing something like 1,000, 2,000 units per year.
[31:25.690 --> 31:27.630]  So the market's just not there.
[31:27.630 --> 31:29.770]  It's not worth their time to put it in the line.
[31:30.150 --> 31:34.930]  But for those of us who are a little off the wall and want it anyway, you get it from Dubai.
[31:35.550 --> 31:36.410]  That's what we did.
[31:36.590 --> 31:42.550]  Now, there's one thing that I think the market is there for, and that's for the book that you publish, Passport to World Band Radio.
[31:42.890 --> 31:45.170]  Do you see quite an interest in that these days?
[31:46.250 --> 31:50.770]  It did very well through the late 80s and early 90s.
[31:50.950 --> 32:01.650]  And then with the end of the Cold War, unsurprisingly, it slowly, just like the entire market, slipped as people took essentially a 10-year vacation from Cold Wars, Hot Wars, and all the rest.
[32:01.650 --> 32:02.590]  And it was well-earned.
[32:03.130 --> 32:08.610]  Now that 9-11 has fallen upon us, we're back in the old mode.
[32:09.730 --> 32:12.670]  And needless to say, the book is picked up again.
[32:13.470 --> 32:15.990]  And the same thing, of course, is true with the radio.
[32:16.110 --> 32:20.930]  There's just an overall interest in getting involved once again in international affairs.
[32:21.610 --> 32:30.910]  The reason, of course, is wrong, but the outcome in that sense is positive, which is proof that even the worst things can have some benefits.
[32:31.850 --> 32:40.130]  We are once again thinking of other cultures, other people, and that means all kinds of international communications, which includes shortwave.
[32:40.530 --> 32:43.030]  Now, let me tell you something about this book.
[32:43.190 --> 32:46.270]  You being the listeners, obviously, you know, all about the book you publish.
[32:47.090 --> 32:54.870]  This is Passport to World Band Radio, and it's one of the premiums that we're offering tonight for callers who call us at 212-968-0500.
[32:55.870 --> 33:05.450]  For a pledge of $75, you'll get a copy of this book, which is the most, as far as I'm concerned, the most amazing book ever on shortwave.
[33:05.470 --> 33:11.190]  The reason for that is because it tells you everything for every frequency.
[33:11.450 --> 33:22.610]  Like, you just go, I'll pick a frequency at random right now, 9,635 kilohertz, and you'll see that that frequency is shared by Chile, Guam, Turkey, United Kingdom, and the USA.
[33:23.050 --> 33:38.150]  And underneath each of those countries is information on those particular broadcasters, what time you can get that particular signal, what language the signal will be in, how powerful the signal is, and other information as well, such as exactly where the transmitter is.
[33:38.610 --> 33:44.810]  It's the most incredible resource that I can describe as far as shortwave goes.
[33:45.690 --> 33:47.430]  212-968-0500.
[33:48.270 --> 33:53.630]  Please call to receive this as a premium for WBAI fundraiser.
[33:54.150 --> 33:56.490]  Let me ask you, Larry, how do you put this together?
[33:56.630 --> 33:59.370]  I mean, it's an incredible amount of information, and I just...
[34:00.090 --> 34:00.890]  It's complicated.
[34:01.070 --> 34:04.250]  It's easy to read, but it must be complicated to compile.
[34:04.610 --> 34:07.730]  Well, that was what we were focusing on from the outset.
[34:07.990 --> 34:16.090]  We used to do work for other publishers, and we found that there were a range of books available, but it was like the elephant parable.
[34:16.210 --> 34:19.010]  One would tell you the tail, and one would tell you the trunk, etc.
[34:20.370 --> 34:24.830]  And second, many of them were fairly oriented to people who were really into the field.
[34:25.070 --> 34:28.510]  They were, I would say geeks, but maybe geeks before their time.
[34:28.910 --> 34:30.010]  And that's fine.
[34:30.150 --> 34:44.930]  There's a real market for that, but it's fairly small, and it was ignoring, I think, the real growth market, which is among the general public who wanted to listen for the information and cultural aspects of this so that they're not really technologically driven.
[34:45.690 --> 34:48.030]  So we tried to take the complex and make it simple.
[34:48.150 --> 34:59.610]  We came up with charts in the back of the book to take information that was really too complicated and obtuse to put in a textual form, and we put it in graphic form.
[35:00.250 --> 35:04.630]  And then we put things that are beginning we need to know, how to get started, what to buy.
[35:04.770 --> 35:05.190]  We test.
[35:05.290 --> 35:09.650]  We have a vast testing team in the laboratory for testing every shortwave radio in the market.
[35:10.730 --> 35:16.150]  We test these things, and we evaluate them and put out, in effect, a complete buy guide every year along with the rest of the book.
[35:16.530 --> 35:26.010]  Then we put the schedules in a variety of formats, by country, and then we have an hour-by-hour section which explains the programs like you would in TV Guide, and so forth.
[35:26.030 --> 35:36.210]  So in the end, you've got all you need between two covers, and it's done, A, so it's understandable, and B, so it's complete.
[35:36.450 --> 35:42.930]  In other words, you don't really have to compromise the completeness in order to make it understandable.
[35:43.670 --> 35:46.310]  As a result, the book has kind of taken off nicely.
[35:46.690 --> 35:52.990]  It's been as high as under 100 ranking and Amazon and other times, you know, much lower.
[35:53.650 --> 36:11.190]  But generally speaking, it does quite well, and the major book chains, one of the buyers there called up and said they consider it their silent bestseller because month in and month out, year in and year out, it doesn't make the top 10, but it hovers there just a little bit below it.
[36:11.690 --> 36:16.970]  And they like that because the book might make the top 10 for a few weeks, which is nice, but then it's gone.
[36:17.170 --> 36:19.450]  And this book goes on year after year after year.
[36:20.250 --> 36:25.210]  Also, the information in it, I believe you can use as information no matter where you are in the world, right?
[36:25.210 --> 36:25.570]  Oh, yes.
[36:25.890 --> 36:27.470]  It's a very international book.
[36:27.590 --> 36:28.350]  Everything is oriented.
[36:28.710 --> 36:33.190]  You can take it on a trip, and of course, we sell the book all over the world.
[36:35.330 --> 36:38.130]  So, yeah, shortwave is worldwide.
[36:38.150 --> 36:40.830]  I don't know if we could even make a book that we're just for the U.S.
[36:41.670 --> 36:43.190]  I think that would be illusory.
[36:43.530 --> 36:49.950]  And in addition to the listings, of course, there are all kinds of reviews of all the broadcasters for one thing.
[36:50.030 --> 36:53.550]  And what else do you cover in a typical edition?
[36:54.110 --> 37:10.910]  Well, the main two parts are the schedules, which you've mentioned, and what I mentioned a moment ago about testing the radios because the radios are not like VCRs or CD players where they're pretty much fungible goods, one just like the other.
[37:11.830 --> 37:17.170]  The radio is very considerably in performance from one to the other, and price is not always the key indication.
[37:17.710 --> 37:25.090]  Or even if there's a difference based on price, the price, the difference might be extremely tiny, but the price might be three times as much.
[37:25.290 --> 37:31.950]  So we run these through hands-on and lab tests from people who have practical, long-term experience.
[37:32.730 --> 37:34.910]  And, of course, we have the lab numbers as well.
[37:35.150 --> 37:41.590]  And from that, we distill some fairly easy-to-understand reviews.
[37:41.850 --> 37:42.810]  And we rank them.
[37:42.950 --> 37:44.210]  We give them star ratings.
[37:44.510 --> 37:52.850]  And we explain the pros, the cons, and so forth so that somebody wanting to enter the field who knows nothing about it can buy the book.
[37:52.970 --> 37:54.110]  And this is usually what happens.
[37:54.230 --> 37:59.090]  Somebody's in Barnes & Noble or whatever, and they're browsing and they see the book.
[37:59.470 --> 38:04.150]  And they open it up and then they see, well, it explains how to get started and it has how to get a radio.
[38:04.310 --> 38:11.950]  So the first step for them is to buy the book, which is good because then they buy a radio that really works and not something that disappoints.
[38:12.770 --> 38:16.930]  And then, of course, once they have the radio and once they know how to use it, then they have the schedules.
[38:17.210 --> 38:19.770]  So that's the formula.
[38:20.070 --> 38:36.470]  We're speaking with Larry Magna, editor-in-chief of Passport to World Band Radio, which is an annual guide that gives you a listing of every shortwave radio station that you can possibly receive as well as detailed information on what broadcasters come,
[38:36.710 --> 38:42.010]  where they come from, where they emanate from, what they say, that kind of thing.
[38:42.170 --> 38:43.470]  Aren't you giving away copies of this book?
[38:43.750 --> 38:45.510]  212-968-0500.
[38:45.750 --> 38:50.990]  See, I don't know if the thing over there is an indication of calls, but if it is, that means there's zero calls.
[38:50.990 --> 38:55.970]  But I can tell you the counter up there that shows how much money you've raised, Emmanuel, is zero.
[38:55.970 --> 38:56.570]  That's zero, too.
[38:56.690 --> 38:59.210]  Which means, this show is on the brink of bankruptcy.
[38:59.290 --> 38:59.830]  Yeah, yeah.
[39:00.250 --> 39:03.450]  I might be asked to leave if we don't improve this right away.
[39:03.550 --> 39:04.970]  212-968-0500.
[39:05.190 --> 39:05.530]  Yes, Bernie.
[39:05.890 --> 39:07.330]  Emmanuel, I want to get the ball rolling.
[39:07.870 --> 39:09.290]  What are your pledge levels?
[39:09.870 --> 39:10.790]  Do you have pledge levels?
[39:11.030 --> 39:13.710]  We have, well, actually, people can pledge any amount.
[39:14.090 --> 39:14.350]  A dollar?
[39:14.930 --> 39:15.690]  Well, you could.
[39:16.030 --> 39:18.610]  Can I send it in an envelope like Mr. Bush said?
[39:18.730 --> 39:20.930]  You can do things like that, but I wouldn't recommend it.
[39:21.030 --> 39:23.650]  I recommend calling up and pledging for real.
[39:24.950 --> 39:30.270]  And for a $75 pledge level, you get this book, which I think is a great value because it opens up your eyes.
[39:30.370 --> 39:33.610]  Imagine WBAI times 100 and add the internet into that.
[39:33.710 --> 39:34.570]  And you have shortwave.
[39:34.590 --> 39:39.350]  You have the diversity of broadcasters from all over the world, all kinds of different perspectives and viewpoints.
[39:39.450 --> 39:43.310]  And nobody's standing in your way telling you, you can't listen to this, you won't hear this.
[39:43.810 --> 39:46.410]  All it takes is how much you want to put into it.
[39:46.590 --> 39:57.690]  Well, I'm not one to let people stand in my way, so I'm going to open the gate here and have the honor of making the first pledge for $75 to WBAI.
[39:57.930 --> 39:59.350]  Okay, will that be Visa or MasterCard?
[39:59.750 --> 40:01.570]  Yeah, if you can just read that number, Bernie, over the air.
[40:02.430 --> 40:03.390]  Do you want me to read it now?
[40:03.530 --> 40:03.690]  Yeah.
[40:03.690 --> 40:04.190]  Go right ahead.
[40:04.290 --> 40:04.910]  Yeah, go right ahead.
[40:04.970 --> 40:06.070]  We're off the air right now, Bernie.
[40:06.170 --> 40:07.350]  If you can just read that aloud.
[40:08.030 --> 40:08.670]  Yeah, anybody...
[40:08.670 --> 40:10.450]  Can I use my H2K card?
[40:11.130 --> 40:14.830]  Yeah, that actually works if people actually try to swipe that card through a card reader.
[40:19.330 --> 40:24.150]  Bernie was taking his H2K card out and trying to hack the phone on the plane.
[40:24.330 --> 40:25.670]  Yeah, and you wonder why he gets into trouble.
[40:25.810 --> 40:27.810]  212-968-0500.
[40:28.070 --> 40:29.950]  I'm seeing no activity on the phone lines.
[40:29.970 --> 40:36.810]  And all that tells me is what Larry's been telling us, how Americans don't take an interest in this kind of a thing.
[40:37.110 --> 40:37.550]  I mean...
[40:37.550 --> 40:38.310]  Well, they have.
[40:38.490 --> 40:41.750]  Let's not be too pessimistic because they aren't coughing up money right now.
[40:42.150 --> 40:55.230]  One thing that's interesting is after 9-11 and also after the San Francisco earthquake and various other events in this country, people turned to shortwave immediately thereafter.
[40:55.490 --> 41:05.430]  There was a big spike in listening, partly because communications were disrupted, but also because at a time like this, you're not really sure what's being told and not told when you turn on the local station.
[41:06.610 --> 41:07.230]  That's for sure.
[41:07.410 --> 41:08.590]  There was that kind of thing.
[41:08.770 --> 41:14.730]  I think at this point, perhaps, you know, the interest in it may have ebbed specifically in Manhattan for obvious reasons.
[41:14.870 --> 41:15.830]  People are trying to move on.
[41:16.470 --> 41:22.770]  But that's one of the interesting things about shortwave is because it is so much of a news medium and it can be trusted.
[41:23.010 --> 41:32.910]  You get many different angles and perspectives without interference that during times of crisis, the listenership jumps as much as sevenfold.
[41:34.090 --> 41:36.110]  So, I think that's probably part of it.
[41:36.230 --> 41:42.370]  Realistically, right now, there's got to be an awful lot of let's move on in and around Manhattan.
[41:43.190 --> 41:51.650]  And I think, you know, if you approached this maybe four weeks ago, it would be one thing or maybe even four months from now, it will be another thing.
[41:52.230 --> 42:08.970]  One of the things, Emmanuel, that I really enjoy about shortwave listening is that you can get many, especially right after something happens, some newsworthy event happens, you can get different perspectives from different countries in just a few minutes or,
[42:08.970 --> 42:10.230]  you know, one hour's listening.
[42:10.230 --> 42:13.730]  You can tune around and get different perspectives from several different countries.
[42:13.750 --> 42:19.150]  It's particularly interesting when there are two countries on different sides of the same issue.
[42:19.310 --> 42:27.490]  For instance, when I was in college back in the early 80s, I remember listening to coverage about the the Falkland Islands War.
[42:27.650 --> 42:29.930]  There's two little islands off the coast of Argentina.
[42:31.370 --> 42:33.270]  We knocked over a fruit stand, right?
[42:33.770 --> 42:34.870]  Something like that.
[42:35.110 --> 42:48.710]  Well, it was great being able to listen very clearly to Radio Argentina in English and the BBC and having very different reports about who shot whose planes down and how many and that sort of thing.
[42:49.030 --> 43:06.730]  And actually, it makes me wonder about the often well-deserved objectivity of the BBC since Britain is taking such a role that it is in the war here.
[43:07.750 --> 43:08.990]  What about that, Larry?
[43:09.150 --> 43:16.130]  Do you think it's worth getting a lot of different perspectives from different broadcasters when something like this happens?
[43:16.310 --> 43:17.090]  Oh, absolutely.
[43:17.090 --> 43:22.090]  If you're not interested in perspective, there's no point in getting into the shortwave because that's what it's about.
[43:22.270 --> 43:25.270]  You're getting the elephant parable but resolved.
[43:25.690 --> 43:30.730]  You don't get the whole elephant plopped in your lap but you do get all the different pieces and you can put it together like a puzzle.
[43:31.090 --> 43:33.870]  And you can use your own judgment in putting it together.
[43:34.030 --> 43:43.690]  There's no one there putting it together for you and regurgitating it in one fixed manner that they decide what's going to be important, what's not, what's going to be taken out, what's going to be altered.
[43:44.730 --> 43:49.210]  But in terms of what you can hear, of course, there's many stations in the Middle East.
[43:49.330 --> 43:59.130]  There's Iran, there's a variety of Arab stations, there's Israel, all in English or many of them in English, as well as the major European broadcasters.
[43:59.230 --> 44:04.330]  You mentioned the BBC, Deutsche Welle is another very good one, Radio Netherlands is another good one.
[44:04.770 --> 44:14.230]  And interestingly you can pick up, although it's in the Afghan languages, you can pick up the transmissions that the United States is beaming into Afghanistan.
[44:15.070 --> 44:17.870]  And it requires a rather good radio.
[44:17.870 --> 44:23.450]  It's not something you can pick up on a $30 portable, but any of the radios we get pretty good ratings to in Passport.
[44:24.630 --> 44:32.150]  If your location is pretty good, you've got some luck, it's a weak signal, but you can pick it up on an oddball frequency of 8,700 kHz.
[44:32.530 --> 44:39.510]  I've actually heard that, and I was wondering if those were, if that's a feed feed to the U.S.
[44:39.630 --> 44:42.310]  broadcast station, which I understand isn't on an airplane, is that correct?
[44:42.510 --> 44:43.090]  That's correct.
[44:43.290 --> 44:48.170]  It's commando solo in the airplane, and it's beamed on the AM band on two frequencies.
[44:48.850 --> 45:02.110]  We are pretty sure it's a feeder on 8,700 because it's too strong to be on an airplane, even though, you know, it's theoretically possible, but in the real world it's almost certainly not on an airplane.
[45:02.390 --> 45:10.370]  We can't direction find it with complete accuracy, but we've done a few checks and it looks like it might be on the ground in Uzbekistan.
[45:10.710 --> 45:14.170]  Again, we're not sure, but at this point that's what it looks like.
[45:14.550 --> 45:16.130]  And you can hear this in the States.
[45:16.330 --> 45:16.570]  Yes.
[45:16.870 --> 45:18.590]  This is so much more...
[45:18.590 --> 45:19.070]  Pardon?
[45:19.190 --> 45:21.350]  This is so much more interesting than AM or FM radio.
[45:21.630 --> 45:23.190]  You can hear all kinds of things.
[45:23.310 --> 45:24.070]  Yeah, it's there.
[45:24.350 --> 45:28.070]  This is what our tax money, our war effort is about.
[45:28.330 --> 45:30.070]  This is the propaganda side of it.
[45:30.210 --> 45:38.330]  We're deeming these broadcasts into Afghanistan, and we're able to pick up the feeder frequency because it's on short life.
[45:38.590 --> 45:39.150]  And it's...
[45:39.150 --> 45:43.870]  Interestingly enough, now this calls for a rather sophisticated radio to pick up.
[45:43.930 --> 45:46.490]  It's not something a $20 or $30 radio can pick up.
[45:46.650 --> 45:53.350]  And yet on the leaflets you're dropping into Afghanistan where people scarcely have enough money for milk, they put that frequency down.
[45:53.550 --> 46:00.950]  So we haven't quite divined what that's all about because I'm sure they're not running around with $200 radios in the caves of Afghanistan.
[46:01.430 --> 46:07.350]  But they do have it in their flyers that they drop to the ordinary Afghan peasant.
[46:07.710 --> 46:08.970]  It's an interesting flyer, too.
[46:09.030 --> 46:10.690]  I guess you've seen this, Emmanuel.
[46:10.870 --> 46:11.890]  Haven't you seen the picture of that flyer?
[46:11.990 --> 46:14.750]  I've got, actually, the copy from that flyer.
[46:15.310 --> 46:17.370]  Give me a moment to track it down.
[46:17.570 --> 46:20.330]  Let me give out the phone number at 212-968-0500.
[46:20.710 --> 46:22.030]  Again, we have no calls on the line.
[46:22.090 --> 46:23.290]  I don't think a single call has come in.
[46:23.290 --> 46:25.270]  Well, but what else are we giving away besides this book?
[46:25.430 --> 46:26.090]  What's the...
[46:26.690 --> 46:27.010]  mugs?
[46:27.110 --> 46:27.430]  What do we got?
[46:27.490 --> 46:27.850]  T-shirts?
[46:27.850 --> 46:33.270]  Well, there's all kinds of things that the BAI people can give you as far as tote bags and baseball caps.
[46:33.330 --> 46:37.510]  One thing is to call, though, and show you support for the radio station, show you support for the radio program.
[46:37.690 --> 46:40.430]  Otherwise, you're not going to hear programs like this in the future.
[46:40.750 --> 46:44.550]  And that's something that I think there's a very...
[46:45.850 --> 46:52.270]  There's a vast void in the radio spectrum in the United States where people don't talk about this kind of thing.
[46:52.450 --> 47:00.970]  I mean, there are certainly more controversial things to be talking about, but I think one of the ways that you will be able to find information is to be able to have access to it.
[47:01.370 --> 47:07.610]  And one of the ways to get access to it is to be able to listen, to listen to world broadcasters via shortwave.
[47:07.750 --> 47:16.230]  If we don't have the knowledge, if we don't have the information even to go out and get a radio or get a book that tells you how the radios work, we have no hope.
[47:16.290 --> 47:19.610]  We'll never be able to learn anything except what the top ten hits are.
[47:19.610 --> 47:26.790]  To borrow a phrase, I find domestic commercial broadcasting here in the U.S.
[47:26.890 --> 47:28.490]  to be a vast wasteland.
[47:28.890 --> 47:36.030]  It doesn't matter which city you go to, you can hear the same formats, the same music, and the same news from the same few corporations.
[47:36.830 --> 47:40.650]  And it's really nauseating, as I don't have to tell you imaginable.
[47:41.050 --> 47:50.470]  So I listen to shortwave more than I listen to regular domestic AM-FM broadcast, and I find radio very enjoyable for that reason.
[47:50.730 --> 47:52.930]  Well, you know, there's another side to this, too.
[47:53.150 --> 47:59.690]  Not every station that's on the air is representing a government of one sort or another.
[47:59.890 --> 48:09.050]  You also have that stations as Radio for Peace International in Costa Rica, which is the only U.N.-founded station, I believe.
[48:09.290 --> 48:13.430]  It's not a U.N.-station as such, but it was founded and chartered by the U.N.
[48:14.410 --> 48:28.570]  It would be, I think, which we call a social-democratic type of station, certain kinship to WBAI, and that represents the voice of liberalism, democratic liberalism in the Americas.
[48:29.370 --> 48:30.830]  It comes from Costa Rica.
[48:30.830 --> 48:32.730]  It's audible throughout the United States.
[48:33.210 --> 48:37.870]  Equally, on the other end of the spectrum, within the United States, there are private shortwave stations.
[48:38.290 --> 48:52.310]  Now, technically, the Federal Communications Commission says that they can only beam outside this country for reasons that's not worth getting into now, However, again, real world, because shortwave is shortwave, you hear them perfectly well throughout the U.S.,
[48:52.310 --> 48:56.070]  and in fact, again, real world, that's where their main audience is.
[48:56.790 --> 48:59.230]  Some of these programs are just incredible.
[48:59.490 --> 49:02.330]  I mean, they have people that can only be called fascists.
[49:04.150 --> 49:14.390]  They just, you know, this is programming that we never heard in the old days on AM and FM, and in fact, you never heard even on shorewave once the Germans lost World War II.
[49:14.830 --> 49:20.110]  But in the last several years, they've come on the air, and I don't know how they keep going.
[49:20.110 --> 49:22.350]  They broker time on the stations.
[49:22.350 --> 49:32.750]  They sell time to oddball organizations, and they sell this, that, and the other over the air, and apparently enough to pay for the air time.
[49:33.450 --> 49:48.470]  So, you know, you get a complete spectrum, and well and truly that is a complete spectrum, all the way from the vestiges of communism, which you can get from Radio Havana and Radio Pyongyang in North Korea, Radio Beijing, to the extent they're still communistic,
[49:49.030 --> 49:57.410]  and China, all the way to what would have to be called neo-fascism that comes over some of the private American broadcasters.
[49:57.570 --> 50:00.910]  Now, you can actually get North Korea in the United States?
[50:01.030 --> 50:01.350]  You can.
[50:01.510 --> 50:02.610]  It's not a great catch.
[50:03.070 --> 50:06.450]  You know, these things are going to depend on shortwave.
[50:06.670 --> 50:07.750]  It's not like AM and FM.
[50:07.910 --> 50:10.790]  You just simply flip the switch, and that's one reason we have the book.
[50:12.230 --> 50:16.930]  Yes, you can pick it up at the right time, in the right conditions, you can pick it up, and it's perfectly readable.
[50:17.710 --> 50:29.450]  It's not a booming signal, but it's surprisingly good considering they don't have enough money to feed their own people, but they seem to find enough money to broadcast some of the most peculiar propaganda I've come across.
[50:30.090 --> 50:35.330]  It's really the last vestige of the old Stalinist propaganda.
[50:35.990 --> 50:38.250]  Good old communist propaganda, if you will.
[50:38.350 --> 50:44.530]  It's pretty well gone because nobody believes it anymore, but yeah, and Pyongyang, it still comes out.
[50:44.530 --> 50:48.050]  Laszlo has just returned from a voyage and he brings back some interesting news.
[50:48.210 --> 50:49.250]  Tell us what you've learned, Laszlo.
[50:49.390 --> 50:51.670]  There's some fried chicken in the kitchen.
[50:51.670 --> 50:52.530]  That's not what I meant.
[50:53.430 --> 50:55.730]  Oh, some people have been calling and giving money.
[50:55.870 --> 50:56.370]  Okay, great.
[50:56.370 --> 51:00.070]  So we don't actually see the lines lighting up here when they're ringing.
[51:00.630 --> 51:01.670]  That's what was getting me.
[51:01.790 --> 51:04.210]  The lines weren't lighting up, and I'm used to the lines lighting up.
[51:04.410 --> 51:06.830]  Yeah, there's actually about five people back there.
[51:06.970 --> 51:08.450]  Three of those are currently on the phone.
[51:09.050 --> 51:10.410]  And they're not personal calls.
[51:10.510 --> 51:15.430]  But no, and we have father and son duo have put money together.
[51:15.510 --> 51:15.830]  All right.
[51:16.070 --> 51:21.710]  James and Josh of Thornwood, New York, have contributed 125 bucks.
[51:21.830 --> 51:22.310]  That's great.
[51:22.390 --> 51:22.610]  Wow.
[51:22.750 --> 51:22.910]  That's great.
[51:23.310 --> 51:26.030]  Now again, the number is 212-968-0500.
[51:26.090 --> 51:43.910]  What we're offering for a $75 pledge is the latest copy of Passport to World Band Radio, the definitive guide to shortwave if you have a shortwave radio or if you're looking to get a shortwave radio, this is the book for you because it will tell you everything you need to know about what to buy and also what to listen to and when it's on,
[51:44.030 --> 51:45.490]  what language it'll broadcast in.
[51:45.970 --> 51:46.950]  And it's fascinating.
[51:47.070 --> 51:56.210]  There is nothing that I can remember more vividly than turning on a shortwave radio for the first time and just hearing the many different sounds, the things like interval signals.
[51:56.350 --> 51:58.590]  Something about interval signals that are just magical to me.
[51:58.670 --> 52:07.650]  And what those are, they're musical chimes that are played by every particular country's radio stations as the top of the hour comes up.
[52:07.790 --> 52:12.610]  For instance, Deutsche Welle plays a particular tune over and over and over again until the top of the hour.
[52:12.890 --> 52:20.230]  That way, when you're tuning your radio dial and you hear those chimes, you know you're going to hear radio Deutsche Welle when the hour strikes.
[52:21.290 --> 52:23.530]  Larry, is there anything you can tell us about interval signals?
[52:24.450 --> 52:25.030]  Well, you're right.
[52:25.130 --> 52:28.810]  Interval signals used to be a little bit more colorful because there were more of them.
[52:29.490 --> 52:41.710]  In the old days, the transmitters, when they were beaming from one part of the world to the other, the wires that go out to the antennas, they would first have to turn the transmitters off, then some poor fellow would have to scramble out with a wrench or whatever,
[52:42.790 --> 52:48.370]  hope he doesn't get electrocuted, and move the wires from one antenna to the other, and then scurry back, and then they'd turn it back on.
[52:48.910 --> 52:50.850]  And all this stuff took up time.
[52:50.990 --> 53:01.610]  So once they had it on, they would have We have to fire the transmitters up again, and then they would want the listeners who had simple radios, and many still do, to be able to find where they were.
[53:01.730 --> 53:04.230]  So they would put a distinctive musical signal on.
[53:04.530 --> 53:10.510]  People are sitting here with their little inexpensive radios diddling around trying to find the station, and they would listen for that music.
[53:11.090 --> 53:18.810]  And then when they heard the music, they would stop, knowing that in a few minutes that the station would come on with whatever news or what have you they would offer.
[53:19.670 --> 53:22.230]  Now, the broadcasts are a little bit more sophisticated.
[53:22.230 --> 53:25.150]  The equipment is more sophisticated, so you don't run into it as much.
[53:25.410 --> 53:29.350]  They tend to operate back-to-back on the same frequency and things like that.
[53:29.890 --> 53:37.170]  Some of them do what's called crash starts, which is that they may share a frequency with a kindred broadcaster.
[53:37.950 --> 53:46.730]  And that broadcast will broadcast right up to 5950 or something, and then it goes off, and the other one comes on within one or two seconds.
[53:46.730 --> 53:48.010]  So there's no interval signal.
[53:48.990 --> 53:55.410]  But, yeah, it's kind of cute to get the kookaburra bird out of Australia and all that.
[53:55.410 --> 53:56.090]  It's one of my favorites.
[53:56.490 --> 53:56.690]  Yeah.
[53:57.530 --> 53:59.650]  What's a good radio to get started with?
[53:59.650 --> 54:04.550]  Something that's not going to cost a ton of money, but somebody out there listening can just go out tomorrow and buy one.
[54:05.010 --> 54:09.590]  Well, the two powerhouse sellers, because they're very good radios.
[54:09.730 --> 54:14.010]  They're not, you know, something you buy, and then six months later say, oh, I wish I'd bought something better.
[54:14.250 --> 54:17.930]  And yet they don't cost, you know, you don't have to mortgage the house.
[54:19.050 --> 54:19.810]  There's two of them.
[54:19.970 --> 54:22.650]  The Sony ICF 7600GR.
[54:23.550 --> 54:27.230]  Now, don't ask me why they can't give the thing a simple name, like Smith or Jones.
[54:27.890 --> 54:30.990]  But they insist on these convoluted names, so I will repeat it.
[54:31.370 --> 54:33.130]  Get your word processors out.
[54:33.130 --> 54:41.330]  Now, I is in Italy, C is in Charlie, F is in Frank, Dash, 7600, G is in George, R is in Robert.
[54:42.070 --> 54:42.670]  Excuse me.
[54:42.790 --> 54:43.690]  I got it confused.
[54:43.890 --> 54:45.510]  G is in George, U is in uniform.
[54:45.830 --> 54:46.090]  Okay.
[54:46.270 --> 54:47.290]  We do this every day.
[54:47.990 --> 54:49.170]  That's a great radio.
[54:50.050 --> 54:51.210]  It's very sophisticated.
[54:51.570 --> 54:55.790]  I don't know how they sell it for $150 street price, but they do.
[54:56.570 --> 54:59.630]  $150, $170, somewhere in there, depending on where you buy it.
[54:59.730 --> 55:01.230]  But it's an incredible...
[55:01.790 --> 55:12.390]  You know, shortwave may have been around for years, but the technology in that radio runs circles around what any other radio, you know, with normal people would think of, AM, FM, whatever.
[55:12.970 --> 55:18.250]  It's got all kinds of gizmos to make the signals quieter and better.
[55:18.550 --> 55:20.710]  And I can't say enough good about it.
[55:20.790 --> 55:22.410]  And for that kind of money, it's great.
[55:22.990 --> 55:24.950]  Now, there's a couple of downsides.
[55:24.950 --> 55:29.350]  One of them is Sony is a huge company, and they plan things out months in advance.
[55:29.550 --> 55:31.490]  So along comes World Trade Center.
[55:31.870 --> 55:37.210]  Everybody goes out and buys shortwave radios, and there are no more of these to be found unless you're very, very lucky.
[55:37.890 --> 55:39.050]  So what do you do?
[55:39.210 --> 55:42.350]  You turn to the other major manufacturer, which is Grundig.
[55:42.490 --> 55:49.070]  Grundig is a German company, but ironically, the headquarters for their shortwave operation is in Northern California.
[55:49.690 --> 55:52.710]  And the radios are actually manufactured in China.
[55:52.710 --> 55:58.010]  They're good radios, but they are more simple than those made by Sony.
[55:58.350 --> 56:01.030]  On the other hand, they have slightly better audio quality.
[56:02.370 --> 56:08.310]  They sell for about the same, 150, and there's one called the Yacht Boy 400.
[56:10.010 --> 56:10.970]  Great little radio.
[56:11.090 --> 56:11.890]  I have one of those myself.
[56:12.090 --> 56:12.670]  Isn't it, Dal?
[56:12.770 --> 56:14.750]  It's a very nice, simple radio.
[56:14.970 --> 56:16.190]  Anybody can operate it.
[56:16.190 --> 56:17.190]  It sounds good.
[56:17.490 --> 56:19.690]  The Sony, on the other hand, is more techie.
[56:19.930 --> 56:21.210]  It does more things.
[56:21.250 --> 56:22.230]  It's more sophisticated.
[56:22.630 --> 56:24.970]  And frankly, we think it's a little bit better constructed.
[56:24.970 --> 56:26.050]  It's still like a tank.
[56:26.350 --> 56:31.070]  But they're both excellent radios, and they're both priced around 150.
[56:31.950 --> 56:35.710]  You can get the Grundig, because Grundig is a focused company.
[56:35.910 --> 56:37.470]  It concentrates on shortwave.
[56:38.010 --> 56:44.270]  And as a result, when something comes up, like the World Trade Center, their sales jump.
[56:44.450 --> 56:46.110]  They know about it within hours.
[56:46.370 --> 56:53.050]  They're on the telex or whatever to their Chinese plant, and they step up production right away.
[56:53.050 --> 56:59.030]  Within a week or 10 days, they've got production flown in here from Asia to fulfill the demand.
[56:59.190 --> 57:05.250]  So as a result, you can get Grundig radios, but you can't get the Sony radios now, because, again, it's a bureaucracy.
[57:05.850 --> 57:07.190]  But they're both very good.
[57:07.470 --> 57:11.230]  And those are the ones we try to recommend people start off with.
[57:11.370 --> 57:22.310]  212-968-0500 is our phone number, and that's basically the number to call to learn everything that you can about shortwave by getting the Passport to World Band radio book.
[57:22.610 --> 57:22.990]  Free!
[57:23.390 --> 57:26.030]  Well, no, it's free with your contribution.
[57:26.330 --> 57:31.250]  And I should point out now that this is not some kind of a garage sale or a raffle.
[57:31.350 --> 57:32.270]  You're making a contribution.
[57:32.430 --> 57:33.650]  Let's make no mistake about this.
[57:33.670 --> 57:35.690]  You can get the book for less, absolutely.
[57:35.690 --> 57:38.930]  You can go onto the website and learn more about it that way.
[57:39.290 --> 57:49.610]  But if you want to contribute to this radio program, to this radio station, what we're asking you to do is make that contribution, and we will send you this as a gift in exchange for your $75 pledge.
[57:49.810 --> 57:51.330]  How about a $2,600 hat or something?
[57:52.130 --> 57:53.330]  Aren't you giving any of that kind of stuff away?
[57:53.330 --> 57:54.350]  Well, we'll talk later.
[57:54.470 --> 57:57.270]  212-968-0500 is our phone number.
[57:57.610 --> 57:58.950]  Please, let's load up those lines.
[57:59.890 --> 58:11.270]  Larry Magna, the publisher of Passport to World Band Radio, has been good enough to join us for the last hour or so and talk to us all about shortwave and how the book is published and what kinds of things are in it.
[58:11.510 --> 58:12.770]  But now we need to hear from you.
[58:12.850 --> 58:18.070]  We need to really build up those numbers because they're coming in, but they're not coming in nearly as well as I'd like them to.
[58:18.250 --> 58:19.090]  It's $350.
[58:19.650 --> 58:22.530]  Yeah, our goal was a couple of thousand for this hour, I think.
[58:22.950 --> 58:23.110]  Right.
[58:23.670 --> 58:24.950]  And we have done it in the past.
[58:24.950 --> 58:26.990]  We know the listeners are out there, and we know that there's...
[58:26.990 --> 58:29.730]  This isn't our usual time slot, although in about three minutes it will be.
[58:29.850 --> 58:32.030]  How many other radio stations in New York have a hacker show?
[58:32.490 --> 58:33.590]  None as far as I know.
[58:33.830 --> 58:35.110]  They haven't told me if there is one.
[58:35.270 --> 58:38.630]  And I haven't heard shortwave talked about on the radio.
[58:38.790 --> 58:42.630]  I hear shortwave talked about on WPKN in Bridgeport, which is a great station.
[58:42.630 --> 58:47.190]  They have a program called The World of Radio with Glenn Hauser.
[58:47.310 --> 58:47.930]  Great program.
[58:48.070 --> 58:48.790]  It's been on for years.
[58:49.890 --> 58:56.730]  But you don't hear things like this where we talk about the meaning of shortwave, about what it's all about.
[58:56.930 --> 58:59.710]  And here in New York City, I don't think any other station does that.
[59:00.110 --> 59:10.130]  If it helps, to the extent that your listeners have their computers turned on, they can go and look at the table of contents and so forth on our website and get back to you.
[59:10.130 --> 59:15.290]  The website is www.passband.com.
[59:15.470 --> 59:20.030]  And there's the table of contents there and a couple of the chapters are excerpted.
[59:20.110 --> 59:21.950]  So they can get a sense of what they're getting into.
[59:22.170 --> 59:29.970]  And that might help them, too, because, you know, if you've never heard of this before, somebody comes through your FM loudspeaker and says, wow, there's this, that, and the other.
[59:30.190 --> 59:32.990]  It might seem a little alien, but maybe that will help.
[59:33.210 --> 59:40.590]  I can honestly say that I know I wouldn't be as interested in radio, and I think Bernie can say the same thing, and a bunch of us here in the room can say the same thing.
[59:40.850 --> 59:53.430]  We wouldn't be as interested in radio, and thus maybe we wouldn't be here in this room right now talking to you had we not discovered shortwave radio years ago and played around and listened to things and expanded our minds and realized, hey, there's a world out there,
[59:53.450 --> 59:55.770]  people saying different things in different ways.
[59:55.770 --> 59:57.830]  Because, you know, maybe it's worth listening to.
[59:57.970 --> 59:59.550]  212-968-0500.
[01:00:00.210 --> 01:00:05.310]  We've only got a couple of minutes left for this particular portion of the program, so please let's see those phone lines really light up.
[01:00:05.430 --> 01:00:07.610]  212-968-0500.
[01:00:07.890 --> 01:00:17.570]  For a pledge of $75, you'll get a copy of the Passport to World Band radio, which will give you everything you need to know about how to start up with shortwave, what to listen to, and what it all means.
[01:00:17.710 --> 01:00:19.530]  212-968-0500.
[01:00:19.970 --> 01:00:21.650]  Bernie gave me my first shortwave radio.
[01:00:21.810 --> 01:00:22.770]  Bernie gave you a shortwave radio.
[01:00:22.770 --> 01:00:26.310]  And I was listening to it, and for the first time, I listened to Radio Havana, Cuba.
[01:00:26.650 --> 01:00:26.930]  Wow.
[01:00:27.130 --> 01:00:28.470]  Isn't that illegal to listen to them?
[01:00:28.510 --> 01:00:31.450]  I don't know, but it was... I was just mesmerized.
[01:00:31.590 --> 01:00:33.830]  Now, they're at 6,000 kilohertz, right?
[01:00:33.830 --> 01:00:34.190]  I don't know.
[01:00:34.270 --> 01:00:35.690]  I was turning knobs, and it came in.
[01:00:36.190 --> 01:00:37.890]  Is that right, Larry, the 6,000?
[01:00:38.670 --> 01:00:39.550]  Among others, yeah.
[01:00:39.690 --> 01:00:40.870]  That's a great frequency to have.
[01:00:41.130 --> 01:00:46.110]  When I was driving up to Canada, we were listening to Radio Havana, and it was the most amazing thing.
[01:00:46.490 --> 01:00:48.010]  Driving in a car, listening to them.
[01:00:48.150 --> 01:00:49.270]  They were coming in crystal clear.
[01:00:49.490 --> 01:00:51.810]  Actually, that's one of the reasons I got into it myself.
[01:00:51.810 --> 01:00:56.550]  I was down in Florida in college, and you could pick up Cuba on the AM band.
[01:00:57.170 --> 01:00:58.890]  And it wasn't Spanish.
[01:00:59.190 --> 01:01:00.350]  And that got me interested.
[01:01:00.550 --> 01:01:05.570]  A friend of mine who was a student from Colombia had a shortwave radio, and that was the beginning of it.
[01:01:05.670 --> 01:01:16.770]  But it is a mind-altering and life-changing experience to some extent, because once you start seeing news and entertainment this way, you don't see it the same as you do when you just tune the normal bands.
[01:01:17.370 --> 01:01:17.970]  That's right.
[01:01:18.150 --> 01:01:19.170]  We're up to 800 bucks.
[01:01:19.170 --> 01:01:21.650]  We want to cross 1,000 before we go into the next segment.
[01:01:21.790 --> 01:01:23.290]  So please, get those phone lines ringing.
[01:01:23.470 --> 01:01:25.050]  212-968-0500.
[01:01:25.710 --> 01:01:30.210]  Again, the little box is broken, so we don't know how many phone lines are actually ringing, but we want to...
[01:01:30.210 --> 01:01:31.490]  Maybe when I can pretend I can make noises.
[01:01:31.970 --> 01:01:32.070]  Yeah.
[01:01:32.410 --> 01:01:35.950]  See, when the volunteers, after the show, we always hang out with the volunteers for a little while.
[01:01:36.030 --> 01:01:43.670]  And when they're, like, shaking, and kind of like, you know, they can't sit down because they've been answering the phone so long and talking to so many people, we know we've done good when that happens.
[01:01:44.390 --> 01:01:46.270]  Now, if they're calm, that's bad.
[01:01:49.170 --> 01:01:59.810]  I just wanted to mention that people, when you say, I have a shortwave radio, a lot of people imagine this, like, huge, huge glowing radio with tubes in it.
[00:01.400 --> 00:02.940]  The technology is much better today.
[00:04.240 --> 00:12.260]  These radios that Larry was just discussing, the Grundy Yacht Boy 400 and the Sony ICF 7600G... GW, is it?
[00:12.620 --> 00:13.020]  GR.
[00:13.360 --> 00:13.740]  GR.
[00:14.100 --> 00:16.460]  These things are smaller than a paperback book.
[00:16.860 --> 00:20.120]  Yeah, I mean, you just bought a car radio that's a shortwave radio, so yeah.
[00:20.380 --> 00:22.140]  Yeah, but that's even bigger than these portables.
[00:22.240 --> 00:23.360]  These portables are tiny.
[00:23.520 --> 00:26.340]  You could put these in a handbag or a purse.
[00:26.480 --> 00:28.460]  You just carry it around, throw it in your suitcase.
[00:28.640 --> 00:29.980]  I take mine traveling with me.
[00:30.380 --> 00:33.800]  You don't need to hook up an elaborate antenna to pick up hundreds of stations.
[00:33.800 --> 00:37.300]  You'd want to get to one of the rare, weak distance stations.
[00:37.300 --> 00:40.080]  You can hook up a wire antenna outside your house, whatever.
[00:40.320 --> 00:43.360]  But this is just a telescoping antenna like any portable radio would have.
[00:43.580 --> 00:45.500]  And you can pick up tons of stations.
[00:45.640 --> 00:50.540]  Now, the radio I gave to Laszlo is an old national... what is it, an NC-125?
[00:51.180 --> 00:52.160]  Something like that.
[00:52.320 --> 00:55.340]  It's a big... it's about the size of a bread box.
[00:55.440 --> 00:58.760]  But what I do is I go around to these radio flea markets called Hamfest.
[00:59.400 --> 01:05.680]  If I see a nice old shortwave radio for a good price, I'll buy it and I'll just give it to somebody to get them started in the hobby.
[01:05.760 --> 01:08.100]  And I've started, I think, about 14 or 15 people.
[01:08.300 --> 01:09.240]  Got them hooked.
[01:09.420 --> 01:10.500]  Yeah, they don't go outside anymore.
[01:10.980 --> 01:12.380]  Got them hooked on shortwave.
[01:12.740 --> 01:21.560]  And I keep doing... I picked up... believe it or not, last weekend at Hamfest up in Bucks County, I picked up an old Westinghouse portable shortwave radio for a dollar.
[01:22.420 --> 01:23.140]  A dollar?
[01:23.740 --> 01:25.040]  For one dollar.
[01:25.340 --> 01:25.440]  Wow.
[01:25.480 --> 01:29.720]  I mean, it does AM FM and it goes just from two to six and a half megahertz.
[01:30.220 --> 01:31.980]  But, you know, it was a dollar.
[01:32.120 --> 01:33.660]  I'm going to clean this up and give it to somebody.
[01:33.780 --> 01:34.340]  It works fine.
[01:34.740 --> 01:39.820]  And, you know, if you look at your yard sales or whatever, you may be able to find one.
[01:39.820 --> 01:54.920]  But, you know, for the money, a hundred-some dollars, you can get a really superb performing radio and just broaden your horizons with information and news and music from all over the world for, you know, what you'd spend in a few months of cable TV.
[01:55.080 --> 01:57.440]  So the radios themselves are not hard to get.
[01:57.600 --> 01:58.420]  They're all over the place.
[01:58.760 --> 02:00.080]  That's not the hard part.
[02:00.260 --> 02:06.300]  But figuring out what's on the dial, that's something that you really need to know and that's what this book will help accomplish for you.
[02:06.540 --> 02:09.540]  Something else, too, is people sometimes confuse shortly.
[02:09.820 --> 02:12.280]  Listening or World Band Radio with Hamming.
[02:13.060 --> 02:18.200]  Hams are people who use the airwaves like a telephone, talking two-way.
[02:18.360 --> 02:19.840]  They have transmitters and they need licenses.
[02:20.140 --> 02:24.000]  This is just like any other radio, AM, FM, except it goes long haul.
[02:24.500 --> 02:26.440]  Second, we were talking about being small.
[02:26.580 --> 02:28.180]  It reminded me of one thing we should mention.
[02:28.680 --> 02:35.180]  If you have a friend or a relative who's in the Armed Forces, these people are going overseas, or they may be in intelligence or some other thing.
[02:35.260 --> 02:35.940]  They're going overseas.
[02:35.940 --> 02:37.400]  They want to keep in touch with home.
[02:37.400 --> 02:40.980]  There's Armed Forces radio, the transmission's on shortwave.
[02:41.140 --> 02:46.340]  There are other, Voice of America, the BBC and so forth, and they really appreciate being able to listen.
[02:46.800 --> 02:52.000]  Problem is, most of them are in a situation where they can't tow the radio around, even something the size of a paperback book.
[02:52.000 --> 03:04.940]  Sony makes an incredible James Bond-type radio that's the size of an audio cassette, not the cartridge, but the little box that comes in, the plastic box.
[03:05.140 --> 03:07.440]  It's absolutely pocket-sized.
[03:07.700 --> 03:12.840]  And then it's got everything built in, antenna and all, and the performance is just fantastic.
[03:13.360 --> 03:15.080]  I mean, the audio quality is not brilliant.
[03:15.220 --> 03:16.820]  It's got a speaker the size of a quarter.
[03:17.320 --> 03:23.160]  But its performance is just brilliant, and there's no compromise on the technical performance and the quality.
[03:23.720 --> 03:29.580]  And yet this thing, when it folds up, it's like a clamshell, like a laptop computer, except much smaller.
[03:29.740 --> 03:30.580]  It's a clamshell.
[03:30.600 --> 03:35.880]  You close it up, and it looks like a little blob of plastic, and it doesn't attract attention from security people or whatever.
[03:36.400 --> 03:38.200]  You open it up, and there's the whole world.
[03:38.380 --> 03:42.900]  And this little thing, it's got a world clock and an LCD and all this digital stuff.
[03:42.900 --> 03:43.740]  It's incredible.
[03:44.060 --> 03:51.100]  It's not cheap either, but it's a wonderful thing to have if you've got that very special person who's on assignment overseas.
[03:51.460 --> 03:56.200]  It'll even display the names of the stations on the little alphanumeric display.
[03:56.340 --> 03:57.820]  Doesn't it come programmed already that way?
[03:57.920 --> 04:00.860]  It comes programmed that way for some, but basically you're right.
[04:00.980 --> 04:03.100]  It just does everything but mix the soup.
[04:03.100 --> 04:17.180]  And when you're in a trench or chasing down Bin Laden in a cave or whatever, or if you're in intelligence or a diplomatic corps, any of that kind of thing, you're in the middle of nowhere.
[04:17.300 --> 04:18.200]  You have no communication.
[04:18.200 --> 04:19.100]  You have nothing.
[04:19.320 --> 04:20.300]  You have no news.
[04:20.300 --> 04:21.220]  You have no baseball.
[04:21.900 --> 04:23.640]  You open this thing up, and there's the world.
[04:23.760 --> 04:25.020]  So it's really wonderful.
[04:25.160 --> 04:29.560]  I know during the Gulf War, a number of these soldiers got small radios.
[04:29.560 --> 04:33.080]  It's not this small, because that wasn't invented back then, but small radios.
[04:33.280 --> 04:34.620]  And they all just loved it.
[04:35.080 --> 04:36.940]  So, you know, that's something you keep in mind as a gift.
[04:38.140 --> 04:42.080]  It's a great thing to have if you're over in that part of the world.
[04:42.480 --> 04:44.320]  212-968-0500.
[04:44.800 --> 04:50.700]  Now, guys, I was just looking in this magazine called Monitoring Times, and there's a special section in here for pirate stations.
[04:50.860 --> 04:59.460]  There's pirate, I guess, shortwave stations with voice, shows called Voice of the Angry Bastard, and Radio Free Texas.
[05:00.200 --> 05:00.700]  Have you heard of that?
[05:00.960 --> 05:02.780]  Are there really pirate stations on shortwave?
[05:03.040 --> 05:03.320]  Oh, yeah.
[05:03.520 --> 05:04.780]  Yeah, but they come and go.
[05:04.960 --> 05:11.340]  And we don't even list them, because they might be on for a week, or they might be on for a night, or maybe on for five minutes, and then go on.
[05:13.440 --> 05:14.160]  It's fun.
[05:14.720 --> 05:29.280]  There's a whole group of enthusiasts, probably numbering no more than a couple of hundred, but still, they're very avid enthusiasts, and they go around listening to these, and when one station pops up on the air, boom, they all get on the internet and email each other and call and say,
[05:29.340 --> 05:31.060]  hey, you know, it's on, and that kind of thing.
[05:31.180 --> 05:42.740]  But it's an amusing activity, but it strays pretty far from the main reason for people listening to World Band Radio, which, of course, is the information you get.
[05:42.920 --> 05:43.440]  I don't know.
[05:43.500 --> 05:47.860]  It says here there's a radio bingo, which is a constant bingo game going on over there.
[05:47.900 --> 05:48.480]  Oh, my goodness.
[05:48.620 --> 05:49.080]  Are you kidding?
[05:49.080 --> 05:54.140]  There's a favorite frequency that shortwave pirates here in the U.S.
[05:54.160 --> 05:57.100]  use, and that's a 6955 kilohertz.
[05:57.500 --> 05:57.580]  Right.
[05:57.840 --> 06:04.860]  So if you've got a portable shortwave, or any shortwave radio, punch in 6955 in many nights, especially around holidays and on weekends.
[06:05.220 --> 06:09.560]  You pick up some interesting unauthorized stations.
[06:09.760 --> 06:11.180]  Many of them have a very humorous bent.
[06:11.260 --> 06:14.300]  One of my favorites from years ago was WLIS.
[06:14.340 --> 06:19.880]  These were not authorized call letters issued by the FCC, but WLIS stood for, WLIS, we love interval signals.
[06:20.040 --> 06:25.500]  And all they did was broadcast interval signals from shortwave broadcasters from around the world.
[06:25.600 --> 06:27.140]  Oh, that's going to confuse everybody.
[06:27.560 --> 06:28.760]  But that's going to confuse people.
[06:28.900 --> 06:30.640]  They're going to think they're listening to another radio station.
[06:30.820 --> 06:31.260]  Well, yeah.
[06:31.440 --> 06:33.960]  But it was really interesting, because they would play a whole lot of them.
[06:34.140 --> 06:34.400]  Uh-huh.
[06:35.220 --> 06:44.060]  Well, as you can see, folks, there is a thriving community of people out there that are into the radio dial, the radio dial that you might not be familiar with.
[06:44.220 --> 06:46.200]  It goes beyond AM, goes beyond FM.
[06:46.200 --> 06:47.720]  There's a whole world out there, literally.
[06:48.560 --> 06:50.920]  And tonight, we're inviting you to become part of that.
[06:51.080 --> 07:01.800]  We've been speaking with Larry Magna, the editor-in-chief of Passport to World Band Radio, which is a definitive guide to the world of shortwave, which we're offering tonight as a premium.
[07:01.800 --> 07:04.980]  For those of you just tuning in, our regular time slot has just begun.
[07:05.700 --> 07:09.980]  So those of you who didn't realize we were on an hour earlier, you're just catching up to us now.
[07:10.100 --> 07:16.000]  We've been talking for the last hour or so about this, and it's been really fascinating just seeing the enthusiasm levels.
[07:16.460 --> 07:19.080]  It's very much a part of the hacker world.
[07:19.160 --> 07:29.000]  You'll find people who are into computer hacking are also into DXing, listening to long-distance radio stations and shortwave and exploring the radio dial.
[07:29.000 --> 07:37.100]  Not just AM, not just FM, but also shortwave, which technically is AM as well, but we won't get into the technical aspects of that.
[07:38.460 --> 07:41.780]  The thing we're asking you to do, though, is call 212-968-0500.
[07:41.780 --> 07:43.120]  We need your support.
[07:43.260 --> 07:44.640]  This is our fall fundraiser.
[07:44.900 --> 07:56.640]  I think this is the only time we'll be on during the fall fundraiser, so obviously we want to do as well as we possibly can to show that Off the Hook continues to have a strong showing out there amongst listeners throughout the world.
[07:56.640 --> 08:02.500]  And we are throughout the world because we are broadcast on the internet as well, as over the radio waves.
[08:03.580 --> 08:09.020]  212-968-0500 is our telephone number, and we're well over the 1100 mark now.
[08:09.620 --> 08:11.080]  And that's a pretty good showing.
[08:11.160 --> 08:13.480]  We'd just like to keep those calls coming in.
[08:13.900 --> 08:17.600]  We also want to thank Larry Magna for joining us for the last hour.
[08:17.720 --> 08:22.600]  Any parting words or things that you'd like people to look at on the internet, perhaps?
[08:22.720 --> 08:23.380]  Yeah, two things.
[08:23.380 --> 08:36.560]  I think first that the, as a small aside, that because the world band radios, the shortwave radios, are designed for long-haul reception, the circuitry usually winds up being very good for the AM and often the FM bands as well.
[08:36.820 --> 08:45.820]  So when people are trying to find something that works extremely well for AM and FM, maybe they live out in boonies or they travel a lot, these are often very good choices.
[08:45.820 --> 08:49.400]  And that's one of the things we look for in Passport when we're evaluating them.
[08:49.400 --> 08:52.880]  The second thing is a little off-topic, but maybe not.
[08:53.760 --> 08:55.640]  People also like webcasting.
[08:55.980 --> 09:03.220]  It's something like 3% of the national population, maybe 5% in urban areas, who listen to webcasts.
[09:03.240 --> 09:06.500]  And that's not a huge number, but it's a very significant number anyway.
[09:07.580 --> 09:11.180]  We did quite a bit of work in that field for some time.
[09:11.180 --> 09:13.080]  We found it wasn't really commercially viable.
[09:13.080 --> 09:23.220]  But we went ahead on our website and we've stuck up a guide to webcasting because, frankly, we found so much on the web was incomplete, misleading, or whatever.
[09:23.780 --> 09:26.580]  So if they want to go to our website, we have...
[09:26.580 --> 09:27.240]  Just click on it.
[09:27.320 --> 09:28.160]  It's a freebie.
[09:28.280 --> 09:31.900]  You can have all these different links and stuff, and it's mostly hyperlinks.
[09:32.580 --> 09:39.640]  It's www.passband.com, and there's a thing called Passport to Web Radio.
[09:39.820 --> 09:45.760]  Just click on that icon, boom, to go to the pages with the information on webcasting.
[09:46.860 --> 09:47.080]  Okay.
[09:47.600 --> 09:56.220]  Larry, I want to thank you very much for joining us and for the generosity in donating the books to the radio station, and I wish you the best of luck in Passport to World Band Radio in the future.
[09:56.720 --> 09:57.340]  Thanks, Larry.
[09:57.600 --> 09:58.240]  My pleasure.
[09:58.760 --> 09:59.180]  All right.
[10:00.320 --> 10:10.820]  And that's the end of our shortwave part of the radio program, but we have another two hours to go, and we need to get those phones ringing, get a lot of people calling in and pledging support.
[10:11.020 --> 10:13.640]  Again, 212-968-0500.
[10:13.640 --> 10:15.620]  It's a special phone number for the pledge drive.
[10:15.880 --> 10:18.200]  And if you donate now, you might save a puppy's life.
[10:19.220 --> 10:20.160]  Were we going to do that?
[10:20.680 --> 10:22.080]  I'm talking to the heartstrings here.
[10:22.100 --> 10:23.840]  I thought we had agreed before the show not to do that.
[10:24.000 --> 10:24.500]  What, the puppy?
[10:24.620 --> 10:24.800]  Yeah.
[10:24.960 --> 10:25.260]  Okay.
[10:25.780 --> 10:28.040]  I thought that's what the conversation was about.
[10:28.040 --> 10:29.080]  Maybe I was somewhere else.
[10:29.240 --> 10:33.180]  Maybe I was talking Swahili or something, but we'll talk during the music.
[10:33.620 --> 10:35.420]  212-968-0500.
[10:35.780 --> 10:37.140]  We're up to $1,250.
[10:37.880 --> 10:38.220]  That's good.
[10:38.480 --> 10:49.760]  That comes from a lot of people putting their collective heads together and calling us, but we obviously need that number to continue rising, because that's the only thing that keeps us going.
[10:49.880 --> 10:51.520]  It's the only thing that keeps this radio station on the air.
[10:52.440 --> 10:55.420]  Like shortwave, this particular place is unusual.
[10:55.420 --> 11:00.980]  It's not the kind of thing that the average person will see in their radio travels.
[11:00.980 --> 11:06.220]  It's not, you know, top 100 songs of, you know, whatever is popular these days.
[11:06.520 --> 11:16.100]  What we do on BAI is different, and that's why, since we don't have commercials, since we don't have backing of a corporate nature, we need to turn to our listeners.
[11:16.320 --> 11:19.160]  And if you're listening, that means you're one of them.
[11:19.280 --> 11:22.680]  That means you're somebody that actually listens to this radio station, gets something out of it.
[11:22.860 --> 11:26.880]  If you listened over the past hour, or the past few minutes even, and got something out of it...
[11:26.880 --> 11:27.620]  Then you owe us money.
[11:27.800 --> 11:29.500]  Well, yeah, I guess that's one way of putting it.
[11:29.560 --> 11:33.660]  But what I was going to say was, you know, it's something that you should want to continue getting.
[11:33.900 --> 11:37.160]  And the only way to continue getting that is to become a member.
[11:37.500 --> 11:40.520]  And if you're not a member, we have the special bell, right?
[11:41.280 --> 11:42.160]  Mike, you have a bell, right?
[11:42.340 --> 11:43.060]  I don't have a bell.
[11:43.140 --> 11:43.980]  Yeah, no, you have a bell.
[11:44.060 --> 11:44.840]  I saw you hiding it before.
[11:44.960 --> 11:45.540]  Oh, I live the bell.
[11:45.540 --> 11:46.180]  The bell's gone, too.
[11:46.300 --> 11:46.460]  Yeah.
[11:46.640 --> 11:50.840]  We have to ring the bell every time we get a new subscriber, or a new member, somebody who's not part of it.
[11:51.580 --> 11:52.900]  All right, we'll find the bells.
[11:53.060 --> 11:54.260]  We'll find the bells, and...
[11:54.260 --> 11:55.720]  You seem to be like a Jerry Lewis telethon.
[11:55.880 --> 11:57.120]  We're up to $15.25.
[11:57.440 --> 11:59.440]  Now, we want that number to...
[12:00.100 --> 12:04.360]  My personal goal, okay, this is the goal that I came in here with, is $5,000 for the night.
[12:05.080 --> 12:09.320]  And, you know, it sounds like a hunk of change there, but it's something that we've done in the past.
[12:09.580 --> 12:10.040]  Yeah, we did.
[12:10.120 --> 12:10.840]  We did it last time.
[12:15.540 --> 12:16.260]  It's not hard.
[12:16.480 --> 12:21.380]  If enough people call in and pledge whatever it is they can afford, it adds up.
[12:21.580 --> 12:22.060]  It really does.
[12:22.200 --> 12:23.180]  It's the power of the individuals.
[12:24.260 --> 12:25.560]  212-968-0500.
[12:25.800 --> 12:26.660]  Again, for a pledge of...
[12:26.660 --> 12:27.120]  Ah, here we go.
[12:27.280 --> 12:30.320]  I figure we probably got at least one new subscriber, so...
[12:30.320 --> 12:30.780]  There we go.
[12:30.840 --> 12:31.300]  There's the bell.
[12:32.580 --> 12:33.520]  It's talking about a hotel.
[12:33.520 --> 12:34.760]  That is annoying, isn't it?
[12:35.020 --> 12:35.400]  All right.
[12:35.520 --> 12:36.500]  I hit them for a reason, but...
[12:36.500 --> 12:37.360]  You can put it away now.
[12:37.480 --> 12:37.820]  You know?
[12:38.340 --> 12:38.500]  Yeah.
[12:39.060 --> 12:39.940]  Look what you've done.
[12:40.020 --> 12:40.640]  Get it away from me.
[12:41.300 --> 12:42.480]  212-968-0500.
[12:42.700 --> 12:45.120]  That's why I don't have the sound of the phones ringing in the background, too.
[12:45.120 --> 12:45.680]  That's very annoying.
[12:46.800 --> 12:47.860]  And see, pledge drives...
[12:47.860 --> 12:49.580]  I know it drives people crazy, but...
[12:49.580 --> 12:50.300]  It drives me crazy.
[12:50.300 --> 13:02.660]  Think of all the time that you're listening to this station, and you don't have to hear people stopping every 10 minutes to read a, this 10 minutes is brought to you by Archer Daniels, Midland, blah, blah, blah, Nova Soy, lactose intolerant, blah, blah,
[13:02.720 --> 13:02.800]  blah.
[13:02.960 --> 13:03.100]  Right.
[13:03.100 --> 13:14.120]  If you add up all the commercials that you hear during a normal broadcast day on a commercial station and compare that to the number of times we have to sit here asking for money, I'm sure that they will win as far as how much time is spent doing that.
[13:14.120 --> 13:20.220]  And not only that, you wind up paying for it anyway because they tack on the cost of advertising to everything you buy.
[13:20.600 --> 13:22.260]  So you get it twice.
[13:22.520 --> 13:25.640]  And they filter their content so as not to upset their advertisers.
[13:25.760 --> 13:26.080]  That's right.
[13:26.080 --> 13:27.720]  And they boost their signals.
[13:27.740 --> 13:30.620]  So that sounds like they're screaming at you on the commercial band.
[13:30.780 --> 13:34.220]  You know, they have all this compression in their voice.
[13:34.220 --> 13:35.740]  Well, it takes out the...
[13:35.740 --> 13:40.620]  They actually, on stations now, they speed up the music so they can fit more commercials.
[13:40.760 --> 13:40.840]  That's right.
[13:41.020 --> 13:42.760]  I mean, there's nothing they won't do.
[13:42.980 --> 13:43.340]  They really...
[13:43.340 --> 13:46.420]  And the music sounds like garbage, too, because there's no high end.
[13:46.660 --> 13:48.280]  You know, classical music sounds awful.
[13:48.280 --> 13:48.740]  It's crunched.
[13:49.020 --> 13:49.240]  Yeah.
[13:49.460 --> 13:51.900]  So we're going to play music here now.
[13:51.900 --> 13:54.640]  And it's going to sound so much better because we're not compressing the signal.
[13:54.780 --> 13:57.200]  And it's going to be something that we can all enjoy.
[13:57.200 --> 14:00.440]  But we'll enjoy it all the more if those phones continue to ring.
[14:00.580 --> 14:02.660]  212-968-0500.
[14:03.620 --> 14:07.580]  And we'll be back with all kinds of news, some important announcements, and your phone calls.
[14:07.620 --> 14:09.300]  Yes, we have not forgotten about your phone calls.
[14:09.360 --> 14:10.960]  We'll be taking those in the later part of the show.
[14:11.280 --> 14:14.160]  We're on for another one hour and 45 minutes.
[14:14.160 --> 14:17.020]  We've got a long way to go to get the amount of money you're talking to.
[14:17.120 --> 14:17.700]  Yeah, we do.
[14:17.820 --> 14:22.500]  And you know what happens when I don't reach the goals that I set for myself.
[14:22.580 --> 14:23.940]  Don't make a hacker cry.
[14:23.940 --> 14:27.660]  I get all depressed and I sort of disappear for a while.
[14:27.800 --> 14:29.640]  And since I'm not on next week, I don't think I'm on next week.
[14:29.700 --> 14:31.320]  We have to determine this before the show ends.
[14:31.440 --> 14:35.320]  But who knows what I'll do in the next couple of weeks if I don't reach my goal.
[14:37.040 --> 14:40.080]  212-968-0500 is the special number to call.
[14:40.280 --> 14:41.940]  Volunteers are standing by.
[14:42.180 --> 14:43.360]  They're actually in there sitting.
[14:43.900 --> 14:44.260]  Okay.
[14:44.480 --> 14:45.820]  Well, it's just a phrase.
[14:46.200 --> 14:47.620]  What other kind of stuff is there?
[14:47.720 --> 14:48.600]  There's got to be other goodies.
[14:48.800 --> 14:51.880]  We have one other thing we're going to announce in a few minutes.
[14:51.880 --> 14:55.820]  But for now, for now, the Passport to World Band Radio...
[14:55.820 --> 14:56.320]  What's wrong with this book?
[14:56.420 --> 14:56.940]  It's an excellent book.
[14:56.940 --> 14:57.920]  I like the book.
[14:58.060 --> 14:58.560]  It's a great book.
[14:58.580 --> 14:59.480]  I want a t-shirt.
[14:59.760 --> 15:03.400]  I want swag that shows the people of America that I care.
[15:04.780 --> 15:05.180]  All right.
[15:05.300 --> 15:07.060]  Well, we'll come up with something.
[15:07.140 --> 15:08.500]  We'll come up with something just for you.
[15:08.560 --> 15:09.060]  How about that?
[15:09.240 --> 15:10.780]  I want a shirt that says, I know Emmanuel.
[15:11.220 --> 15:11.840]  I listen to...
[15:11.840 --> 15:12.600]  You're not getting that.
[15:12.920 --> 15:14.380]  I listen to his radio show.
[15:15.220 --> 15:16.500]  212-968-0500.
[15:16.900 --> 15:18.140]  We're over the 1,500 mark.
[15:18.300 --> 15:19.620]  We want to get over the 2,000 mark.
[15:19.620 --> 15:23.320]  And by the time this song is over, hopefully, that will be a reality.
[15:23.560 --> 15:24.200]  We'll see you in a few.
[16:04.030 --> 16:05.030]  We'll see you in a few.
[16:15.550 --> 16:17.770]  We'll be right back.
[16:17.830 --> 16:18.730]  We'll be right back.
[16:20.570 --> 16:22.670]  They'll be right back.
[16:23.150 --> 16:28.090]  The Tribal War, a perfect plan for the one that can be lost.
[16:28.090 --> 16:30.350]  Since that ain't you or me.
[16:30.610 --> 16:32.470]  Tribal walk continually.
[16:33.110 --> 16:35.210]  Proud of milk for malnutrition.
[16:35.630 --> 16:37.270]  Send us some more animation.
[16:38.130 --> 16:40.010]  Never mind the ivory tray.
[16:40.370 --> 16:42.290]  Let's go plot a hand grenade.
[16:42.910 --> 16:46.310]  Thank you, boss, for Red Cross.
[16:49.720 --> 16:51.300]  Appreciate goodwill.
[16:52.480 --> 16:54.220]  No, no, no.
[16:54.880 --> 16:56.180]  Stomach for our loss.
[16:57.320 --> 16:59.000]  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[16:59.720 --> 17:01.140]  I feel quite ill.
[17:02.080 --> 17:04.000]  Ah, ah, ah.
[17:04.680 --> 17:05.720]  Rally round the flag.
[17:06.040 --> 17:06.940]  Rally round the flag.
[17:08.900 --> 17:10.600]  But we got so many.
[17:11.640 --> 17:13.700]  I guess that's why.
[17:14.320 --> 17:15.780]  Why you act?
[17:18.490 --> 17:20.530]  Like we ain't got any.
[17:21.570 --> 17:23.710]  Charlson has come home again.
[17:24.130 --> 17:26.390]  Heard the news, Dom and Bane.
[17:26.670 --> 17:28.550]  Had to split, no room to swing.
[17:28.550 --> 17:30.970]  Some say he wanted him to sing.
[17:31.230 --> 17:33.350]  He seems to see no unity.
[17:33.770 --> 17:35.630]  Masses ruled by minority.
[17:36.210 --> 17:38.370]  When these guys come on the scene.
[17:38.670 --> 17:40.450]  Ruin the good blues party.
[18:02.050 --> 18:06.890]  I know I heard the tune before.
[18:06.970 --> 18:10.430]  I thought as I would.
[18:10.450 --> 18:11.970]  I was kicked through the door.
[18:13.050 --> 18:21.470]  Something bowed at Mission P. But I was sure house belonged to me.
[18:22.250 --> 18:26.050]  They told us to go in stereo.
[18:27.650 --> 18:31.190]  Machine guns against spear and bow.
[18:32.530 --> 18:35.790]  Agued on by a TV cameraman.
[18:37.250 --> 18:40.410]  Someone called the tear gang.
[18:40.450 --> 18:40.630]  I swear.
[18:42.090 --> 18:44.410]  White line, ride our roles.
[18:44.690 --> 18:46.870]  Lyrics for the prompted songs.
[18:47.210 --> 18:49.210]  Number one, top of the charts.
[18:49.650 --> 18:50.890]  Rock and roll, bling
[19:07.480 --> 19:08.180]  out the gun.
[19:08.920 --> 19:10.020]  Down in the snow.
[19:11.400 --> 19:14.860]  Stake your claim, blow by blow.
[19:16.200 --> 19:19.980]  Saw my pals go flying through the window.
[19:22.520 --> 19:24.660]  Lions, lions in a jungle.
[19:28.170 --> 19:29.470]  Jungles in a cave.
[19:30.530 --> 19:32.710]  Try, try, trouble.
[19:33.130 --> 19:34.450]  Trouble in the homeland.
[19:34.630 --> 19:35.730]  Trouble in the homeland.
[19:37.930 --> 19:39.310]  Bosses in a rage.
[19:40.110 --> 19:42.650]  I know, mister, if it was you.
[19:42.870 --> 19:45.190]  It would be cut down like a flower.
[19:45.490 --> 19:47.570]  Some things never change.
[19:47.910 --> 19:50.130]  Corporate crime gets re-raged.
[19:50.350 --> 19:52.350]  Only out for personal gain.
[19:52.750 --> 19:54.930]  Grab the land and seize the power.
[19:54.930 --> 19:56.230]  What's all over Halo andhare.
[19:56.230 --> 19:57.230]  What's all this about Big Ten?
[19:57.550 --> 19:58.530]  Don't you know.
[20:09.380 --> 20:09.880]  PLRAMoooO!
[20:09.960 --> 20:15.860]  I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I I-I-I-I.
[20:15.860 --> 20:35.820]  I-I-I-I... I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I.
[22:00.910 --> 22:07.370]  You know, Laszlo, I don't think you'd even hear that song on commercial radio, even though there's nothing particularly anti-commercial about it.
[22:07.370 --> 22:10.850]  But that's my favorite song from Big Audio Dynamite, from their first album.
[22:11.050 --> 22:15.350]  And I think the lyrics of that song just apply today so much.
[22:16.430 --> 22:17.250]  It's really something.
[22:17.450 --> 22:21.530]  I have to tell you something that will scare you about commercial radio, that will make you open up your wallet.
[22:22.670 --> 22:24.410]  You're going to tell me personally, or you're telling the listeners?
[22:24.650 --> 22:25.550]  Well, whatever.
[22:25.710 --> 22:29.050]  Let me thank some of the listeners first, because we do want to do that.
[22:29.050 --> 22:36.070]  But that was Big Audio Dynamite from 1985, I think?
[22:36.550 --> 22:37.470]  85, 86?
[22:38.630 --> 22:40.010]  Man, what does the time, though?
[22:41.110 --> 22:41.770]  It's unbelievable.
[22:42.010 --> 22:48.930]  And this underneath us is music from Dread Zone, which many of the members of Big Audio Dynamite wound up in.
[22:49.630 --> 22:50.950]  This was only a few years ago.
[22:51.130 --> 22:54.710]  You can't get this record in the United States at all, let alone hear it on the radio.
[22:55.650 --> 22:57.330]  How do you know you can't get it in the United States?
[22:57.330 --> 22:58.790]  It's got to be in a record shop somewhere.
[22:58.890 --> 22:59.750]  No, it's only an import.
[22:59.990 --> 23:01.970]  They didn't get a distribution deal here.
[23:02.150 --> 23:02.750]  It's a conspiracy.
[23:05.110 --> 23:06.810]  Anyway, you've got some scary things to tell us.
[23:06.890 --> 23:07.930]  I've got some people to thank.
[23:09.050 --> 23:15.010]  And we also have a phone number, 212-968-0500, for people to call.
[23:15.190 --> 23:16.850]  The outlook is bleak for this little puppy.
[23:17.250 --> 23:21.190]  We're up to $1,600, which is okay, but it's not great.
[23:21.490 --> 23:24.390]  It's not great, especially considering my goal for the night is $5,000.
[23:24.530 --> 23:25.470]  We're not even halfway there.
[23:25.530 --> 23:26.430]  We're not even halfway there.
[23:26.430 --> 23:29.290]  And that means we've got to do a lot of work ahead of us.
[23:29.290 --> 23:30.630]  And we do have a lot of things to cover.
[23:30.830 --> 23:33.610]  And we'd rather not spend the next hour and a half pleading.
[23:33.890 --> 23:35.010]  No, we'd rather not do that.
[23:35.070 --> 23:39.810]  So please call up with those large pledges, too, as well as the not-so-large ones.
[23:40.070 --> 23:41.610]  No, the large ones would be bigger than that.
[23:41.610 --> 23:44.130]  Right, but I mean, you know, people go out and get a six-pack of beer.
[23:44.210 --> 23:47.830]  Why not just go buy a six-pack of beer and send some money to BAI?
[23:47.930 --> 23:48.270]  Like $10.
[23:48.270 --> 23:55.970]  We spent the time during the song that we played comprising something that Lazlo would be more happy with as far as premiums.
[23:57.450 --> 24:05.390]  We have, for $125, in addition to the Passport to World Band radio book, which is fascinating.
[24:05.970 --> 24:11.210]  I've bought it every year myself at the store, just to be up-to-date on things.
[24:11.670 --> 24:16.910]  In addition to that, you'll get the brand-new 2600 t-shirt, which has not yet been released.
[24:17.030 --> 24:24.130]  In fact, there are probably some people out there listening right now who are grumbling, saying, you know, I pledged for that last pledge drive, and I still haven't got...
[24:24.130 --> 24:25.070]  Well, we have your names.
[24:25.930 --> 24:28.670]  We have your names, and we are going to send you that.
[24:28.850 --> 24:32.270]  And that's, yeah, that's the unauthorized sketch.
[24:32.370 --> 24:33.210]  That's what it's going to look like.
[24:33.350 --> 24:34.130]  Preliminary sketches.
[24:34.130 --> 24:34.150]  Preliminary sketches.
[24:34.470 --> 24:35.510]  Already it's drawing gas.
[24:35.790 --> 24:36.270]  Now you can't look at that.
[24:36.370 --> 24:39.690]  Yeah, people want to see it again now, and you just can't show it to people like that.
[24:39.970 --> 24:43.170]  That's the new 2600 shirt, unlike anything we've ever done before.
[24:43.370 --> 24:43.610]  Right.
[24:44.370 --> 24:49.350]  And for a pledge of $125, you'll get that, and you'll get the book.
[24:49.450 --> 24:51.250]  And you'll get the shirt before anybody else gets the shirt.
[24:51.350 --> 24:56.850]  I mean, we just put out an issue, and we have no mention of the shirt in there, so even our own subscribers won't be able to get it before you do.
[24:57.510 --> 25:00.930]  So that's 212-968-0500-125.
[25:01.110 --> 25:05.110]  You'll get the brand-new 2600 shirt, and you'll get the Passport to World Band Radio.
[25:05.230 --> 25:08.670]  Or if you just want the Passport to World Band Radio, a $75 pledge.
[25:08.870 --> 25:13.110]  Or if you just want to show your support for the radio station, give us $1,000.
[25:14.310 --> 25:17.810]  Or put a $1 bill in an envelope and mail it to us.
[25:17.850 --> 25:20.590]  Well, you could do that, too, but it wouldn't show up on the number here, which is kind of...
[25:20.590 --> 25:23.250]  Well, no, you write on the $1 bill, Emanuel Goldstein.
[25:23.430 --> 25:24.350]  You can't write on money.
[25:24.370 --> 25:24.810]  That's illegal.
[25:24.810 --> 25:26.190]  That's one of the many things that are illegal.
[25:26.530 --> 25:31.990]  But we have other pledge levels, besides $1,000, which we call our really good friend level.
[25:32.390 --> 25:33.970]  A really good friend level?
[25:34.090 --> 25:35.550]  We have any level you want.
[25:35.670 --> 25:39.110]  $50 is our basic membership if you're a student or someone on low income.
[25:39.330 --> 25:44.670]  That isn't so low an income that you'd be starving if you sent us this, but $25 is the level for that.
[25:45.450 --> 25:46.990]  212-968-0500.
[25:47.950 --> 25:59.970]  Most of the time, we are on the air bringing you all kinds of news about technology and the latest in the world of cyberspace, dare I say it, and new draconian laws being passed and things like that.
[26:01.130 --> 26:02.410]  Today, it's a little bit different.
[26:02.650 --> 26:05.450]  Today, we're on for a bit longer, but we are asking for your support.
[26:05.610 --> 26:12.350]  And the people at BAI have given us this extra time because they have confidence in us that we can bring that support out.
[26:12.350 --> 26:17.850]  I hope that our listeners do matter, that they will call up and show their support.
[26:18.070 --> 26:30.930]  I've been asked also to, since there are more calls coming in than we have volunteers, if you get a ringing, just let it keep ringing until somebody picks up or until the phone company decides to cut you off and then call right back.
[26:31.150 --> 26:32.310]  There are people there.
[26:32.490 --> 26:34.310]  They're working as hard as they possibly can.
[26:34.650 --> 26:49.330]  And these are people very much like you and me who have come in off the street and are answering phones and getting absolutely nothing out of it, except for the cheery sound of the voices on the other end that are supporting this radio show.
[26:49.730 --> 26:50.950]  All right, let me thank some people.
[26:51.150 --> 26:55.670]  I want to thank Frederick from New York for his contribution.
[26:57.470 --> 26:59.210]  Frank, also from New York.
[26:59.210 --> 27:01.530]  Jim from Mendham, New Jersey.
[27:03.170 --> 27:03.530]  Revington.
[27:03.750 --> 27:04.310]  What a great name.
[27:04.410 --> 27:05.350]  Revington from the Bronx.
[27:06.350 --> 27:09.090]  I want to thank that person for their support.
[27:09.310 --> 27:10.010]  I assume it's a him.
[27:10.250 --> 27:11.650]  Revington couldn't be a girl's name, right?
[27:11.830 --> 27:13.070]  Dude, you don't know these days.
[27:13.110 --> 27:13.470]  I don't know.
[27:13.490 --> 27:14.210]  You've got EverQuest.
[27:14.310 --> 27:14.650]  Who knows?
[27:14.870 --> 27:15.250]  Yeah, I don't know.
[27:15.250 --> 27:16.450]  The kids, they've gone crazy.
[27:16.670 --> 27:16.910]  They have.
[27:17.030 --> 27:18.590]  David from Bryan, New Jersey.
[27:20.570 --> 27:23.590]  It says Delore, but I think they mean Dolores, right?
[27:23.790 --> 27:25.590]  Is there a singular version of Dolores?
[27:25.870 --> 27:26.170]  Dolore?
[27:26.830 --> 27:27.190]  Dolore?
[27:27.310 --> 27:28.490]  That could be their hacker name.
[27:29.290 --> 27:30.250]  From the Bronx.
[27:30.390 --> 27:31.790]  Thank you very much for your pledge.
[27:32.650 --> 27:33.850]  Escart from Albany.
[27:33.970 --> 27:35.030]  Escart, that's another great name.
[27:35.190 --> 27:35.550]  Albany?
[27:35.750 --> 27:35.990]  Yeah.
[27:36.170 --> 27:36.990]  No, not Albany.
[27:37.070 --> 27:38.270]  Escart, that's a great name.
[27:38.510 --> 27:38.750]  Oh.
[27:39.890 --> 27:42.850]  I think names should be unique.
[27:43.030 --> 27:46.270]  They should be something that, you know, that express who you are.
[27:46.450 --> 27:48.930]  Obviously, as a baby, you can't come up with a name right away.
[27:49.070 --> 27:50.230]  That's why you change when you get older.
[27:50.390 --> 27:52.430]  You should be expected to come up with something by the time you're two.
[27:52.710 --> 27:54.010]  My real name is Billy Bob.
[27:54.230 --> 27:54.810]  There you go.
[27:54.930 --> 27:55.710]  But I got my last name.
[27:55.750 --> 27:57.450]  That expresses who you are perfectly.
[27:58.270 --> 27:58.750]  All right.
[27:59.210 --> 28:02.070]  Russell from Richmond Hill, which is in Queens.
[28:02.070 --> 28:04.350]  Thank you very much for your pledge.
[28:05.130 --> 28:07.070]  And this looks like a K.
[28:07.290 --> 28:08.430]  Ken from Centerreach.
[28:08.630 --> 28:10.590]  Thank you for your support.
[28:12.530 --> 28:15.330]  Steve from Wacabuck.
[28:16.970 --> 28:17.370]  Wacabuck?
[28:17.670 --> 28:18.850]  That's got to be a reservation.
[28:19.030 --> 28:19.950]  That sounds...
[28:20.890 --> 28:21.750]  That's a great name.
[28:22.530 --> 28:22.930]  Wacabuck?
[28:23.130 --> 28:23.610]  No, Steve.
[28:23.810 --> 28:24.290]  That's a great name.
[28:24.430 --> 28:24.490]  Yeah.
[28:25.290 --> 28:26.990]  David from Dover, New Jersey.
[28:27.330 --> 28:29.090]  Thank you very much for your call.
[28:29.430 --> 28:30.670]  This guy's name is Steve Miller.
[28:30.970 --> 28:31.150]  Yeah.
[28:31.330 --> 28:32.090]  Do you think he's like...
[28:32.090 --> 28:33.250]  You're not supposed to read the last names.
[28:33.250 --> 28:33.790]  Oh, you're not?
[28:33.990 --> 28:34.170]  No.
[28:34.470 --> 28:35.430]  Dude, he doesn't say that.
[28:35.590 --> 28:36.770]  It doesn't say it says greetings.
[28:36.770 --> 28:38.210]  I'm saying that to you right now.
[28:38.270 --> 28:39.370]  You can't read the last names.
[28:39.370 --> 28:39.490]  Oh.
[28:39.810 --> 28:40.530]  For God's sake.
[28:40.870 --> 28:41.270]  That's a...
[28:41.670 --> 28:42.750]  Thank God we're on delay.
[28:42.870 --> 28:43.890]  That would have gone over live.
[28:44.170 --> 28:44.210]  No, that's a...
[28:44.210 --> 28:44.370]  Huh?
[28:45.130 --> 28:46.250]  Clayton in Brooklyn.
[28:46.770 --> 28:48.450]  That would have gone out live.
[28:48.590 --> 28:48.730]  Yeah.
[28:48.890 --> 28:49.230]  Well, no.
[28:49.310 --> 28:50.810]  We're lucky that we're able to cut this.
[28:50.910 --> 28:53.390]  So let's just continue as if nothing else happened.
[28:53.390 --> 28:55.150]  Leslie from New York City.
[28:56.010 --> 28:57.390]  Thank you for your support.
[28:57.670 --> 28:59.690]  Frank from Chatham, New Jersey.
[29:00.770 --> 29:01.850]  Gilbert from Brooklyn.
[29:02.970 --> 29:04.550]  What do you mean delay is not working tonight?
[29:05.070 --> 29:05.650]  I don't know.
[29:07.650 --> 29:08.410]  That's embarrassing.
[29:09.970 --> 29:10.390]  Arthur.
[29:11.810 --> 29:12.690]  Spelled with an E.
[29:12.850 --> 29:13.890]  A-R-T-H-E-R.
[29:13.950 --> 29:15.270]  That could have been the person writing it down.
[29:15.910 --> 29:16.970]  Getting Arthur wrong.
[29:17.230 --> 29:18.590]  Because Arthur is usually spelled with a U.
[29:19.210 --> 29:20.650]  But Arthur of Glendale, New York.
[29:20.870 --> 29:22.710]  You're going to be getting mail addressed to Arthur with an E.
[29:22.710 --> 29:24.350]  I'll bet because it's been written down this way.
[29:24.530 --> 29:26.890]  And don't even try changing it because that's the way it's going to be.
[29:27.010 --> 29:27.810]  That's your new hacker name.
[29:27.910 --> 29:28.950]  That's your name from now on.
[29:29.630 --> 29:34.610]  As is Christoph without the R from New York.
[29:35.190 --> 29:35.450]  Okay.
[29:35.790 --> 29:39.090]  You know, the reason we haven't met our goal, we can't even...
[29:39.090 --> 29:40.690]  We're low on consonants and vowels.
[29:40.890 --> 29:41.250]  That's right.
[29:41.370 --> 29:41.770]  We're at 1750.
[29:42.450 --> 29:42.950]  And let me...
[29:42.950 --> 29:43.550]  You know, I...
[29:43.550 --> 29:44.650]  I'm not finished with the names.
[29:44.670 --> 29:46.830]  No, I have to see the phone number over and over again.
[29:46.950 --> 29:46.970]  Oh, okay.
[29:46.970 --> 29:48.530]  People are just so maddened.
[29:49.590 --> 29:51.070]  212-968-0500.
[29:51.470 --> 29:51.970]  I'm maddened.
[29:51.970 --> 29:52.710]  I'll say that right now.
[29:52.910 --> 29:52.970]  Are you?
[29:53.130 --> 29:53.690]  Yeah, say it again.
[29:54.470 --> 29:55.750]  212-968-0500.
[29:56.010 --> 29:56.490]  Yeah, I'm maddened.
[29:56.490 --> 29:57.970]  I don't see you dialing the manual.
[29:58.110 --> 29:58.730]  Well, I don't have a phone.
[29:58.730 --> 30:01.870]  Mr. Fancy Pants, money, making money, 2600 magazine guy.
[30:01.870 --> 30:02.730]  I just have a microphone.
[30:02.870 --> 30:03.570]  I don't have a regular phone.
[30:04.070 --> 30:05.610]  Armand from Union, New Jersey.
[30:06.790 --> 30:08.290]  And Barry from Bayside.
[30:08.690 --> 30:10.570]  Thank you very much for your support.
[30:10.730 --> 30:11.850]  Thank you, everybody, for your calls.
[30:12.410 --> 30:14.350]  And we know there's more people out there.
[30:14.570 --> 30:15.810]  There are tons of people out there.
[30:16.990 --> 30:23.390]  And if Off the Hook has meant something to you over the years, we really want to and we really need to hear from you.
[30:23.630 --> 30:28.330]  212-968-0500.
[30:28.770 --> 30:30.310]  So I have to tell you something frightening.
[30:30.690 --> 30:31.230]  Tell me something frightening.
[30:31.270 --> 30:32.010]  This will be very quick.
[30:32.150 --> 30:32.310]  Okay.
[30:34.430 --> 30:37.310]  You know, something pretty big and disastrous just happened.
[30:37.450 --> 30:38.050]  I'm sure you're aware.
[30:38.190 --> 30:38.290]  Yeah.
[30:39.230 --> 30:44.770]  Radio stations nationwide, in order to save money, and this is something this radio station could do, is voice tracking.
[30:44.970 --> 30:49.370]  And that's where a person comes in, reads in front of a microphone into a computer.
[30:49.670 --> 30:51.590]  The computer lays it in between songs.
[30:51.850 --> 30:53.010]  Okay, this person just goes home.
[30:53.170 --> 30:57.070]  So they're in the studio for 15 minutes and they said, Hey, everybody, that was Led Zebulon coming up.
[30:57.150 --> 30:57.750]  It's Van Halen.
[30:57.750 --> 30:58.670]  Boy, it's a great night out there.
[30:58.690 --> 30:59.850]  That's how MTV works.
[30:59.990 --> 31:00.110]  Right.
[31:00.210 --> 31:01.770]  I know people who work at MTV.
[31:02.770 --> 31:04.690]  You know where MTV is uplinked?
[31:04.750 --> 31:06.050]  In Hoppog, New York, for some reason.
[31:07.210 --> 31:10.030]  Literally feet away from Time Warner.
[31:10.230 --> 31:12.550]  Time Warner and Viacom are feet away from each other.
[31:12.610 --> 31:16.350]  For some reason, Hoppog, New York, is the place where the uplinks for all these networks take place.
[31:17.670 --> 31:23.350]  But the VJs for MTV aren't out there in Hoppog where the videos are actually being played on the machines.
[31:23.570 --> 31:29.850]  They're somewhere in New York City recording their little, whatever they call them, what do you call the things that separate songs?
[31:29.890 --> 31:30.590]  It's not a stop set.
[31:30.970 --> 31:31.950]  Something like that, yeah.
[31:32.470 --> 31:34.890]  And making it seem as if they just saw the same video as you.
[31:34.950 --> 31:38.610]  But in actuality, they're sitting in a studio and they couldn't care less about the video that you just saw.
[31:38.750 --> 31:42.610]  They're just recording these things one after the other and they probably do it a week at a time and go home.
[31:42.610 --> 31:53.710]  So radio stations, Nationwide and Cheap Channel, also known as Clear Channel, which sounds like a thousand stations, has been doing this and even having one person be the voice of many different radio stations.
[31:53.830 --> 31:56.290]  So their voice is sent out by a computer and just placed in between songs.
[31:56.550 --> 32:01.950]  Well, you have all these unmanned stations and then disasters happen.
[32:02.130 --> 32:03.050]  We have World Trade Center.
[32:03.190 --> 32:04.290]  We have all this.
[32:04.290 --> 32:19.730]  and there's been instances where there are tornadoes coming through town, disastrous things, and you've got a person on the radio acting like nothing's wrong because it's all pre-recorded, saying, it's a lovely night outside, isn't it?
[32:19.830 --> 32:20.810]  Where are the live people?
[32:21.090 --> 32:22.030]  They go home.
[32:22.150 --> 32:23.590]  These are unmanned stations now.
[32:23.690 --> 32:26.170]  Major stations now are unmanned after 7 p.m.
[32:26.610 --> 32:27.490]  That's disgusting.
[32:27.510 --> 32:28.770]  That way you don't have to pay people.
[32:29.170 --> 32:30.790]  Can you imagine BAI like that?
[32:30.790 --> 32:34.390]  Can you imagine us not having live people here talking on the radio?
[32:34.890 --> 32:41.050]  I mean, it's something that I think is vital to radio, but no other radio station seems to do it anymore.
[32:41.350 --> 32:44.930]  Yeah, there's talk radio stations, but they're primarily in the AM band.
[32:45.050 --> 32:47.470]  They primarily cater to a particular type of audience.
[32:47.830 --> 32:48.470]  Rush Limbaugh.
[32:48.670 --> 32:49.170]  Yeah, exactly.
[32:49.170 --> 32:50.430]  You know, he went deaf.
[32:50.590 --> 32:51.830]  Yeah, that's sad.
[32:51.970 --> 32:53.390]  I mean, you know, somebody on radio...
[32:53.390 --> 32:56.130]  It's from covering his ears and going, la, la, la, la, la.
[32:56.290 --> 32:57.090]  That's not funny.
[32:57.250 --> 32:58.770]  Well, no, it's because he doesn't listen to anybody else.
[32:58.850 --> 33:00.010]  Well, that's not funny still.
[33:00.010 --> 33:03.230]  I mean, you know, I can test the things he says, but I do think he does good radio.
[33:03.610 --> 33:07.830]  And he's, you know, somebody that deserves to have hearing if he's going to be doing radio.
[33:07.930 --> 33:12.870]  And hopefully they'll help him and make sure that he gets it back, whatever it is.
[33:12.970 --> 33:16.590]  But I read in a news article that it's been happening since May.
[33:16.750 --> 33:18.090]  We only just found out about it now.
[33:18.930 --> 33:19.290]  Wow.
[33:19.490 --> 33:21.110]  So, yeah, I just found that out.
[33:21.550 --> 33:27.510]  But, yeah, radio is a very vital type of communications medium out there.
[33:28.930 --> 33:32.430]  Unfortunately, to many, it's turned into just a business and nothing else.
[33:33.510 --> 33:42.110]  And you see that with the new satellite radio called XM, owned by Clear Channel, or partly owned by Clear Channel, which is basically a company.
[33:42.250 --> 33:43.230]  It's not a technology.
[33:43.230 --> 33:49.890]  It's a company giving you their product the way they want to give it to you and not offering it to the public.
[33:49.890 --> 33:52.050]  The public cannot go out there and broadcast.
[33:52.050 --> 33:54.890]  It's only them being able to do that.
[33:55.310 --> 33:56.890]  And it's $10 a month.
[33:57.250 --> 33:58.630]  Yeah, and plus you have to pay for it.
[33:59.050 --> 34:00.230]  BAI is...
[34:00.230 --> 34:01.730]  We have a lot of problems.
[34:01.850 --> 34:02.750]  There's no question about that.
[34:02.930 --> 34:12.830]  But right now, and I challenge anybody to tell me otherwise, here in New York, it's still the only radio station that does what we do.
[34:13.030 --> 34:14.910]  It has a program like this.
[34:15.130 --> 34:16.590]  It has a program like so many others.
[34:17.570 --> 34:27.930]  And if you want it to be around in the future so that it can be made better, then you have to show support and invest and keep it going.
[34:28.090 --> 34:30.630]  212-968-0500.
[34:31.910 --> 34:36.070]  Here's something that we like to spend time with.
[34:37.190 --> 34:38.490]  Yeah, it's a dial tone.
[34:39.990 --> 34:41.230]  What kilohertz is that?
[34:41.410 --> 34:42.110]  I don't know.
[34:42.170 --> 34:43.410]  I don't have the exact frequencies.
[34:43.410 --> 34:47.330]  But we like to play with these dial tones.
[34:47.590 --> 34:48.610]  We've been doing it over the years.
[34:49.030 --> 34:51.550]  And we want to continue doing it for years to come.
[34:52.490 --> 34:57.070]  So that you can hear, when you listen to previous shows, how the technology has changed.
[34:57.070 --> 34:59.770]  You can go back to 1988 and hear how different it sounds.
[34:59.970 --> 35:03.550]  And I'm sure this will sound different one day, too.
[35:15.310 --> 35:15.790]  711.
[35:16.230 --> 35:19.030]  The 800 number you have dialed is not in service.
[35:19.030 --> 35:21.830]  There is no further information available at this time.
[35:23.010 --> 35:23.890]  Well, that's interesting.
[35:24.070 --> 35:24.130]  711.
[35:24.470 --> 35:25.070]  That's, uh...
[35:25.070 --> 35:26.310]  The 800 number you have dialed.
[35:26.550 --> 35:28.550]  Okay, that's interesting because I called 800 information.
[35:28.750 --> 35:29.530]  Let me try it one more time.
[35:29.750 --> 35:30.290]  I'll dial faster.
[35:30.290 --> 35:31.550]  There's no information for you.
[35:31.930 --> 35:37.130]  You know when you're doing that, I'll just keep saying 212-968-0500 is the number to call.
[35:37.230 --> 35:37.730]  Give $2.
[35:38.490 --> 35:40.210]  Give $7.85.
[35:40.210 --> 35:46.370]  Yeah, but the base amount is $50 for a membership, $25 for students.
[35:48.370 --> 35:49.690]  Is information even there?
[35:54.090 --> 35:55.570]  I think information's broken.
[35:57.170 --> 35:58.530]  Okay, I was going to demonstrate.
[35:58.890 --> 36:02.110]  Every time I try to demonstrate, and I tested this before the show, too, so I knew it worked.
[36:02.410 --> 36:04.790]  But every time I try to demonstrate something, it's not there.
[36:05.210 --> 36:07.430]  I was going to demonstrate their voice recognition software.
[36:07.490 --> 36:08.770]  I'm going to try this one more time.
[36:08.770 --> 36:14.290]  And then, you see, I'm dialing the right number.
[36:14.510 --> 36:19.650]  Or the BAI phone system might be interpreting that as an illegal number or something.
[36:23.180 --> 36:24.180]  Did you dial 9?
[36:26.500 --> 36:27.700]  You don't have to dial 9.
[36:29.780 --> 36:30.620]  7-1-1.
[36:30.720 --> 36:31.700]  Okay, all right, all right.
[36:32.520 --> 36:33.860]  I've got another number I'm going to call.
[36:41.800 --> 36:45.720]  Now, we have to sit through the warning and everything that they give you these days.
[36:49.300 --> 36:49.960]  The warning?
[36:50.080 --> 36:51.460]  Yeah, there's a warning when you call this number.
[36:51.580 --> 36:51.800]  Here we go.
[36:53.860 --> 36:58.680]  For your security, Amtrak guests are now required to provide valid photo identification.
[36:59.280 --> 37:01.760]  You know, they're not called customers or passengers anymore.
[37:01.760 --> 37:02.620]  They're called guests.
[37:02.960 --> 37:04.260]  When you're on a train, you're a guest.
[37:04.520 --> 37:07.360]  Only they would improve the level of service rather than the name.
[37:07.520 --> 37:07.780]  Yeah.
[37:08.020 --> 37:14.000]  Well, as we've mentioned on this radio program before, you can no longer travel on a train without showing valid ID.
[37:14.920 --> 37:16.060]  What if I show a fake ID?
[37:16.200 --> 37:16.780]  I don't know.
[37:16.900 --> 37:17.920]  You might get in a lot of trouble.
[37:17.920 --> 37:20.460]  It's getting really difficult to travel around these days.
[37:20.820 --> 37:24.540]  Now, let's demonstrate this system here.
[37:25.920 --> 37:27.680]  Thank you for calling Amtrak.
[37:29.780 --> 37:30.940]  I knew what button to hit.
[37:32.300 --> 37:34.120]  Hi, Amtrak status line.
[37:34.260 --> 37:38.300]  I'll be able to get you arrival and departure information for any Amtrak train.
[37:38.520 --> 37:41.720]  If you ever get stuck, just say help and I'll explain your options.
[37:42.100 --> 37:42.840]  Let's get started.
[37:43.060 --> 37:43.220]  Help.
[37:44.620 --> 37:49.500]  I'll be able to get you the on-time status for any Amtrak train or connecting bus service.
[37:49.900 --> 37:50.700]  Here's a hint.
[37:50.960 --> 37:54.560]  Whenever you know the answer to a question I'm asking, you can interrupt me.
[37:54.720 --> 37:55.360]  I won't mind.
[37:55.860 --> 37:58.140]  Okay, in order to find your train...
[37:58.140 --> 37:58.780]  Oh, sorry.
[38:00.240 --> 38:02.360]  I think you said you want to back up a step.
[38:02.500 --> 38:02.980]  Is that correct?
[38:03.220 --> 38:03.420]  Yeah.
[38:04.920 --> 38:06.640]  Hi, Amtrak status line.
[38:06.800 --> 38:10.840]  I'll be able to get you arrival and departure information for any Amtrak train.
[38:11.060 --> 38:14.280]  If you ever get stuck, just say help and I'll explain your options.
[38:14.520 --> 38:14.700]  Okay.
[38:14.760 --> 38:15.380]  Let's get started.
[38:15.620 --> 38:17.000]  Do you know the train number?
[38:17.200 --> 38:17.360]  No.
[38:18.880 --> 38:19.580]  No problem.
[38:19.800 --> 38:21.040]  We'll find your train a different way.
[38:21.280 --> 38:23.700]  Would you like arrival or departure information?
[38:24.060 --> 38:24.500]  Arrival.
[38:25.800 --> 38:28.060]  What station is the train arriving in?
[38:28.360 --> 38:28.900]  Boston.
[38:30.500 --> 38:33.320]  There are two stations in Boston, Massachusetts.
[38:33.600 --> 38:34.400]  Which one is it?
[38:34.600 --> 38:38.780]  You can choose from Boston Back Bay Station or Boston South Station.
[38:39.220 --> 38:40.620]  South Station.
[38:41.960 --> 38:43.900]  And what's the departure station?
[38:44.180 --> 38:45.180]  I don't know.
[38:46.940 --> 38:49.980]  I need to know which station the train is departing from.
[38:50.140 --> 38:52.800]  If you know the exact station name, say it.
[38:52.980 --> 38:56.500]  Otherwise, try saying the city and state that the station is located in.
[38:56.700 --> 38:59.460]  For example, you could say Washington, D.C.
[38:59.660 --> 39:02.080]  Union Station or Detroit, Michigan.
[39:02.500 --> 39:05.700]  If you're unsure of this city and state, just say agent.
[39:06.100 --> 39:06.500]  Okay.
[39:06.760 --> 39:07.860]  What's the departure station?
[39:08.860 --> 39:10.240]  San Diego, California.
[39:12.800 --> 39:15.700]  Approximately what time is the train scheduled to arrive?
[39:17.920 --> 39:18.860]  3 a.m.
[39:20.380 --> 39:24.080]  And should I look for trains arriving Tuesday or Wednesday?
[39:24.380 --> 39:24.660]  Wednesday.
[39:26.040 --> 39:26.600]  Okay.
[39:26.800 --> 39:32.860]  I'll look for a train from San Diego, California to Boston South Station arriving at 3 o'clock a.m.
[39:33.060 --> 39:35.100]  on Wednesday, October 24th.
[39:35.200 --> 39:35.700]  Is that correct?
[39:35.900 --> 39:36.020]  Yep.
[39:37.500 --> 39:38.200]  Hold on.
[39:38.360 --> 39:39.300]  I'll try to find your train.
[39:40.340 --> 39:43.120]  I wasn't able to find any trains for that itinerary.
[39:43.300 --> 39:44.600]  Let me transfer you to an agent.
[39:44.820 --> 39:45.620]  You incompetent idiot.
[39:45.800 --> 39:47.580]  Now, I will have no further use for you.
[39:47.940 --> 39:48.200]  All right.
[39:48.520 --> 39:50.640]  That's Amtrak customer service now.
[39:51.900 --> 39:53.940]  And it's almost as good as a human.
[39:54.560 --> 39:55.460]  What do you think, Bernie?
[39:56.220 --> 40:00.400]  Have you spoken with or to Claire?
[40:01.060 --> 40:01.780]  Who's Claire?
[40:02.220 --> 40:08.520]  Claire is the new machine idiot that Sprint PCS is deploying We can't insult machines.
[40:08.520 --> 40:10.260]  We can't insult machines like this.
[40:10.360 --> 40:10.920]  It's not fair.
[40:12.000 --> 40:13.160]  They have feelings, too.
[40:13.960 --> 40:14.740]  She's still an idiot.
[40:15.480 --> 40:15.720]  All right.
[40:16.340 --> 40:17.520]  Let's get it out of your system.
[40:19.220 --> 40:20.860]  Bernie dated Claire at one time.
[40:22.440 --> 40:23.960]  I tried to go after some of our ones.
[40:24.060 --> 40:25.280]  Now, who does Claire work for?
[40:25.720 --> 40:26.520]  Sprint PCS.
[40:26.580 --> 40:27.340]  Sprint PCS.
[40:27.560 --> 40:32.780]  Well, I'll tell you what, I don't want to spend too much time on this, but maybe we'll make an appointment with Claire for weeks ahead.
[40:32.820 --> 40:33.260]  How about Anita?
[40:33.560 --> 40:34.240]  Have you talked to her?
[40:34.320 --> 40:34.740]  Who's Anita?
[40:35.040 --> 40:35.460]  Hey, Anita.
[40:36.540 --> 40:37.500]  You ever heard of Hey, Anita?
[40:37.660 --> 40:41.060]  You can call it 1-800-HEY-ANITA and you're like, Anita, tell me the weather.
[40:41.180 --> 40:42.420]  And she's like, okay, blah, blah, blah.
[40:42.420 --> 40:42.600]  You're kidding.
[40:43.400 --> 40:43.620]  Wow.
[40:43.900 --> 40:45.080]  Is it voice activated?
[40:45.320 --> 40:45.500]  Yeah.
[40:45.840 --> 40:46.040]  Wow.
[40:46.360 --> 40:50.200]  Well, the voice activation software I think has gotten really, really good over the last few years.
[40:50.280 --> 40:55.120]  I mean, you know, if you listen to things that we did years ago, it didn't approach the level of that.
[40:55.160 --> 40:57.420]  And I just think the way it sounds is a lot more normal now.
[40:57.500 --> 41:01.680]  I mean, I could have had that conversation with a human being and it would have gone exactly the same way.
[41:03.100 --> 41:04.700]  But this was a computer.
[41:05.160 --> 41:08.900]  It's very good as long as there's a very small vocabulary that it has to choose from.
[41:09.580 --> 41:15.640]  So it can choose from a list of Amtrak stations pretty well, but it can't, you know, understand this radio program yet.
[41:16.020 --> 41:17.860]  No, I don't think a lot of humans can though either.
[41:17.940 --> 41:18.740]  Well, that's their problem.
[41:18.760 --> 41:19.380]  I can understand.
[41:19.500 --> 41:21.040]  212-968-0500.
[41:21.380 --> 41:22.600]  We're at 1925.
[41:22.940 --> 41:24.860]  You know, we're so close to 2000, but you know what?
[41:24.980 --> 41:29.820]  It still doesn't put us halfway to the goal that I personally set for myself, which I realize now is probably a bad move.
[41:29.840 --> 41:30.100]  Right.
[41:30.460 --> 41:31.660]  Kind of support that we're getting here.
[41:31.660 --> 41:32.860]  You should say your goal's low.
[41:33.100 --> 41:34.660]  212-968-0500.
[41:34.900 --> 41:36.300]  Yeah, from now on, I think maybe I'll do that.
[41:36.380 --> 41:38.700]  I'll set my goal at like $10 or something for the next one.
[41:38.760 --> 41:39.920]  That way I'll feel better.
[41:40.480 --> 41:41.040]  Say, Emmanuel?
[41:41.300 --> 41:41.840]  Yes, go ahead.
[41:42.560 --> 41:47.440]  The next time you have a pledge, can I ring it in with my own special ring like my kid?
[41:48.340 --> 41:49.260]  Yeah, I guess.
[41:49.520 --> 41:49.760]  Okay.
[41:49.880 --> 41:53.400]  When that number goes up, we'll let you know and you can ring it in in your own special way.
[41:53.660 --> 41:54.180]  That'd be great.
[41:54.320 --> 41:55.280]  Whatever that means.
[41:55.500 --> 41:56.000]  I'd like that.
[41:56.120 --> 42:01.920]  We have some news items that we want to update people on.
[42:02.020 --> 42:03.060]  We have all kinds of...
[42:03.060 --> 42:04.300]  We're behind, by the way.
[42:05.000 --> 42:05.500]  We're behind...
[42:05.500 --> 42:07.920]  Not only financially, but we're behind in our itinerary.
[42:08.000 --> 42:08.500]  Yes, we are.
[42:08.600 --> 42:10.920]  We wanted to vote the last...
[42:10.920 --> 42:14.060]  a majority of the last hour of the show to listen to phone calls.
[42:14.540 --> 42:21.440]  And we have an important announcement coming up in just a few minutes as well, but we do want to get those phone calls coming in.
[42:22.240 --> 42:23.040]  212-20...
[42:23.040 --> 42:24.320]  I keep giving the wrong number.
[42:24.420 --> 42:25.980]  212-968-0500.
[42:26.160 --> 42:30.200]  I've been giving out the other number for ages and now we don't have that number anymore.
[42:30.360 --> 42:30.980]  What happened?
[42:31.320 --> 42:32.280]  Well, that apparent...
[42:32.280 --> 42:35.500]  We lost the phone switch when the Trade Center went down.
[42:35.800 --> 42:44.620]  We seem to have gotten part of it back for the listener phone calls, but the other part, which used to be 2950, no longer exists or at least hasn't been plugged in.
[42:44.780 --> 42:46.880]  We're using 212-968-0500.
[42:47.100 --> 42:50.020]  It might just be a choice that we decided that number sounds better or something.
[42:50.220 --> 42:52.240]  I don't know, but I'm still used to the other number.
[42:52.420 --> 42:55.920]  You still get the same friendly volunteers as before sitting in the same pledge room.
[42:56.060 --> 42:56.340]  That's right.
[42:56.340 --> 42:56.980]  It's all okay.
[42:56.980 --> 42:57.580]  That's right.
[42:58.420 --> 43:01.200]  So keep those calls coming in.
[43:02.360 --> 43:04.580]  Okay, we have a lot of concern.
[43:04.880 --> 43:14.520]  We've been getting all kinds of mail and phone calls and people stopping us in the street to express their concern about what's going on out there.
[43:15.840 --> 43:29.480]  And there have been all kinds of pieces being printed in various papers concerning some of the laws that are being passed, some of the bad things that are happening.
[43:29.680 --> 43:32.220]  And there are so many bad things that are going on.
[43:32.300 --> 43:38.280]  For instance, expect the FBI to expand its internet wiretapping program, says a source familiar with the plan.
[43:38.680 --> 43:45.400]  Stuart Baker, a partner with law firms Steptoe & Johnson, is a former general counsel to the National Security Agency.
[43:45.400 --> 43:57.660]  He says the FBI has spent the last two years developing a new surveillance architecture that would concentrate internet traffic in several key locations where all packets, not just email, could be wiretapped.
[43:57.960 --> 44:04.900]  It is now planning to begin implementing this architecture using the powers it has under existing wiretapping laws.
[44:05.200 --> 44:11.840]  The FBI has acknowledged a program called Carnivore which sniffs email messages but the new program is more extensive according to Baker.
[44:12.280 --> 44:26.920]  The FBI has been gradually developing a set of guidelines, standards, call it what you will, a list of what law enforcement, response from packet data communication systems and they are in the process of unveiling that over the next few months to ISPs and router manufacturers and the like.
[44:27.560 --> 44:41.280]  ISPs, web hosters, vendors, and other firms handling critical internet infrastructure should expect the FBI trying to schedule meetings to deliver the details of their offering and show the document containing the technical specifications.
[44:41.640 --> 44:42.480]  Their offering?
[44:42.880 --> 44:48.360]  He indicated that details of what this new surveillance architecture should look like are not clear.
[44:48.660 --> 44:55.120]  It is also possible the FBI has retained some well-known data infrastructure consulting firms to develop this new technology.
[44:55.580 --> 44:59.120]  Folks, this is just getting, you know, it's getting worse and worse.
[44:59.420 --> 45:01.000]  This is truly frightening.
[45:01.280 --> 45:01.420]  Yeah.
[45:01.680 --> 45:03.340]  What scares you about it the most?
[45:03.440 --> 45:13.620]  I mean, the idea that the FBI wants to be able to dictate how internet architecture should be set up for their own convenience and wiretapping you is totally disturbing.
[45:13.620 --> 45:25.580]  If I send an email and I'm at Columbia and I send an email to a friend of mine also at Columbia, under the current present architecture, that email never leaves Columbia, which makes sense.
[45:25.700 --> 45:38.160]  But what the FBI wants to do is to have all traffic routed centrally through some FBI office, which also makes it really easy to shut down the internet or to filter the internet or to do anything they want in the future.
[45:39.680 --> 45:44.400]  And if this is true, it's quite possibly the scariest thing I've heard in a long time.
[45:44.460 --> 45:49.300]  We know that desire is out there because we've heard it expressed in many different ways.
[45:49.340 --> 45:55.140]  I've been complaining over the last few weeks over how we don't hear certain things on the media.
[45:55.280 --> 46:00.660]  For instance, when I was talking about the Palestinian thing with the alleged celebrations, we never heard the audio.
[46:01.460 --> 46:07.160]  Recently, there was a statement made by Osama bin Laden where we never actually heard what he said.
[46:07.160 --> 46:08.980]  We just heard somebody telling us what he said.
[46:09.640 --> 46:12.880]  And since then, since then, it's gone a step further.
[46:13.220 --> 46:31.880]  The United States government has requested of all major media outlets that if such tapes or such releases are received in the future, that they not broadcast them, that they edit them because there might be hidden messages there and that they submit them to the government first so that they can tell them what it is that can be said and what cannot be said.
[46:31.960 --> 46:34.960]  And every single one of the major media outlets has agreed to this.
[46:35.620 --> 46:46.420]  Now, the reasoning behind behind it is that, well, there might be secret messages in there that bin Laden followers might act upon and that could endanger innocent lives.
[46:46.600 --> 46:57.500]  And the media in their naivete has simply gone along with this without question and without, I guess, in great fear of being labeled anti-American for not doing this.
[46:57.820 --> 47:06.560]  It's absurd when you think about the logic behind that that they would need to broadcast something over major media to transmit a secret message.
[47:06.700 --> 47:11.680]  If a secret message wanted to be gotten out, there are a number of ways that could happen.
[47:11.860 --> 47:15.660]  You could easily send the message over, as we mentioned before, shortwave.
[47:15.680 --> 47:22.100]  We could send it over email of various sorts or any kind.
[47:22.240 --> 47:24.320]  There's all kinds of ways to get messages out there.
[47:25.420 --> 47:32.100]  I think it's far more important that we hear firsthand what is being said and not have it controlled and manipulated.
[47:32.260 --> 47:36.260]  I think we're intelligent enough to be able to figure out what's true and what is not true.
[47:36.540 --> 47:40.040]  I think there's a lot of ways that they could send a message, maybe a phone.
[47:40.380 --> 47:48.400]  I mean, if they've got intricate plans, I doubt they're going to, with a camera in front of them, stop what they're saying and say, Mohammed, next Tuesday, go to...
[47:48.400 --> 47:49.440]  You know, they're not going to do that.
[47:49.900 --> 47:53.200]  Yeah, and don't we learn something, too?
[47:53.200 --> 47:59.800]  If there is a hidden message in there someplace, you know, maybe we can help find the hidden message.
[48:00.520 --> 48:05.280]  If it's not told to anybody, though, it's, you know, it makes things a lot harder.
[48:05.580 --> 48:06.200]  I don't know.
[48:06.380 --> 48:08.660]  It's a very bad precedent to set.
[48:11.000 --> 48:15.380]  Okay, and of course, we also have the anthrax situation going on all over the place.
[48:15.580 --> 48:19.000]  And I haven't checked the news in the last couple of minutes, so I don't know if it's changed.
[48:19.140 --> 48:26.700]  But last I heard, there were instances throughout Washington, D.C., and New Jersey, and it's starting to affect postal workers now.
[48:26.840 --> 48:32.440]  We have, I think, two dead postal workers, which is really not a good situation at all.
[48:34.320 --> 48:40.960]  But the thing is, we have the usual hypocrisy as far as how this is being dealt with.
[48:41.060 --> 48:47.800]  We're being told to lead our lives normally, to not, you know, to not make any changes in our lifestyle.
[48:47.940 --> 48:59.440]  And then we have people like Diane Feinstein saying that, you know, when they open the mail in their congressional offices from now on, they're going to be using all kinds of gas masks and gloves and things like that.
[49:00.640 --> 49:05.620]  That doesn't really send a message that everything should be treated as normal, does it?
[49:06.380 --> 49:08.260]  It sends rather the opposite message.
[49:08.840 --> 49:18.380]  We have a situation where Congress is evacuated because of fear of particular bits of anthrax floating around someplace.
[49:18.380 --> 49:26.560]  Again, that doesn't send a very good message either that, you know, we're being told to lead our lives normally, but if there's a slight risk, run away.
[49:26.760 --> 49:28.280]  Well, there's a slight risk all the time.
[49:28.660 --> 49:31.440]  These are things that are never, ever going to go away.
[49:31.900 --> 49:37.680]  You can't stop people sending things through the mail unless you stop having mail.
[49:37.680 --> 49:42.060]  You can't stop people taking over airlines unless you stop having people on airlines.
[49:42.280 --> 49:43.840]  The thing to do is to recognize
[49:48.380 --> 49:49.080]  in the first place.
[49:50.120 --> 49:52.940]  But I think we're just going way overboard here.
[49:53.500 --> 50:00.840]  So now, here's something as far as the anthrax situation, and I'm troubled to say we don't seem to be getting any phone calls, so I hope you don't call in.
[50:01.080 --> 50:04.600]  Yeah, and this board here is staler than a mash rerun.
[50:04.700 --> 50:06.280]  We got to get something going here.
[50:06.340 --> 50:09.160]  This show is getting shut down and we're going to be playing some Yanni.
[50:09.800 --> 50:10.940]  That doesn't sound good at all.
[50:11.040 --> 50:13.060]  212-968-0500.
[50:14.100 --> 50:17.380]  Bernie hasn't gotten to ring whatever it is he was going to ring down there.
[50:18.480 --> 50:21.360]  because we haven't gotten a single phone call in the time that we asked for them.
[50:21.480 --> 50:22.400]  So please give us a call.
[50:22.560 --> 50:24.960]  We have many different levels of support.
[50:26.020 --> 50:32.600]  The pledge people down there, down the hall, are able to update you on all that so we can continue talking about this.
[50:33.100 --> 50:41.460]  And don't worry about missing what we're saying because it gets stored on the internet and you'll hear it at some point if that's what your worry is.
[50:41.580 --> 50:43.780]  We usually have a lot of international response too.
[50:43.780 --> 50:51.300]  Yeah, if you're overseas, country code 1, I guess city code is 212 and the number is 9680500.
[50:51.720 --> 50:53.480]  We need guilders and we need them now.
[50:53.700 --> 50:54.000]  That's right.
[50:54.600 --> 50:55.340]  We got to hurry up.
[50:55.500 --> 50:57.120]  Give us your guilders while they still exist.
[50:57.280 --> 50:57.400]  Yeah.
[50:57.600 --> 50:57.920]  Right.
[50:58.300 --> 50:59.500]  January 1st, they won't exist anymore.
[51:00.160 --> 51:01.140]  Okay, now here's the thing.
[51:01.700 --> 51:11.180]  With Anthrax, fan mail, that old barometer of an entertainer's popularity has become off limits for many in Hollywood since the Anthrax mail attacks in New York City, Washington, and Florida.
[51:11.580 --> 51:17.080]  Studios, networks, and publicists say thousands of letters have been returned to sender or just set aside.
[51:17.440 --> 51:20.560]  Some celebrities have signed up with services that open fan mail for them.
[51:20.680 --> 51:22.480]  Others have simply stopped opening mail.
[51:22.700 --> 51:25.020]  For the time being, we are just not opening fan mail.
[51:25.180 --> 51:26.980]  Just to be careful, we are putting it off for now.
[51:27.560 --> 51:28.460]  I don't know what that...
[51:28.460 --> 51:28.960]  That's crazy.
[51:28.960 --> 51:29.700]  What was that accomplished?
[51:29.820 --> 51:31.900]  That's the publicist for Tom Cruise saying this.
[51:32.860 --> 51:35.340]  Yeah, just for now, because in the future, it'll be safe.
[51:35.500 --> 51:37.960]  You know, it won't be possible to send anthrax through the mail, you know.
[51:38.200 --> 51:38.520]  What...
[51:38.520 --> 51:39.400]  I don't know...
[51:39.400 --> 51:44.800]  I don't know if we'll ever find out who's behind this, but I think it's pretty obvious that people behind it are people who watch the media.
[51:44.980 --> 51:52.340]  Because after September 11th, over the mainstream media, what was being said was, what if somebody did this?
[51:52.420 --> 51:54.120]  What if somebody sent anthrax to people?
[51:54.280 --> 51:55.620]  You know, we'd be able to do...
[51:55.620 --> 51:56.260]  It'd be panic.
[51:56.480 --> 51:57.660]  And that's exactly what happened.
[51:57.720 --> 52:01.200]  And not only did it happen, it was sent to the same media people that said it.
[52:01.600 --> 52:12.020]  And then to Congress, it's pretty obvious whoever is doing this is watching and wanting publicity and getting ideas from people coming up with preposterous scenarios.
[52:12.660 --> 52:13.920]  Oh, we have 2,000...
[52:13.920 --> 52:15.580]  All right, Bernie, you can do whatever it is you were going to do.
[52:15.860 --> 52:16.580]  All right, here we go.
[52:20.740 --> 52:22.220]  Oh, those are illegal tones.
[52:22.360 --> 52:23.220]  Those are MF tones.
[52:23.540 --> 52:24.380]  No, no, no, no, no.
[52:24.540 --> 52:25.040]  Aren't they illegal?
[52:25.060 --> 52:25.920]  You don't hear them anymore.
[52:26.280 --> 52:28.220]  That was simply the pledge phone number.
[52:28.540 --> 52:29.020]  Oh, good.
[52:29.140 --> 52:30.860]  Did you have the KP and the start tone as well?
[52:31.120 --> 52:31.920]  Oh, listen again.
[52:32.040 --> 52:32.240]  Okay.
[52:35.330 --> 52:38.070]  Yes, I can see you did have the KP and start tone there.
[52:38.090 --> 52:39.290]  What are you people talking about?
[52:39.390 --> 52:41.630]  This way nobody understands what you hackers are talking about.
[52:41.830 --> 52:44.310]  If you call up and pledge, you will understand what we're talking about.
[52:44.610 --> 52:45.010]  Guaranteed.
[52:45.130 --> 52:46.790]  212-968-0500.
[52:47.290 --> 52:48.790]  Yes, it may sound like gibberish to you.
[52:48.910 --> 52:52.410]  It may sound like a bunch of yammering fools, but it does make sense.
[52:52.410 --> 52:53.850]  There are lots of people that are...
[52:55.070 --> 52:55.930]  Was that necessary?
[52:56.150 --> 52:58.610]  That are into what it is that we're talking about.
[52:58.750 --> 53:00.290]  I just want something that everyone can understand.
[53:00.490 --> 53:01.310]  That's very Alice.
[53:01.310 --> 53:02.950]  You're very Mel on Alice over there.
[53:02.950 --> 53:04.310]  We'd like you to be one of those people.
[53:04.370 --> 53:05.570]  We'd like you to be one of those people.
[53:05.730 --> 53:07.590]  212-968-0500.
[53:07.970 --> 53:15.150]  If the phone keeps ringing, let it keep ringing, because that means people are scrambling to answer the phone, and your phone call is every bit as important to us as the one before it.
[53:15.150 --> 53:22.450]  We should have like an opposite thing, where instead of ringing the bell when people do pledge, we keep ringing it until they give us money to stop.
[53:22.450 --> 53:23.770]  We don't want to turn the radio off.
[53:23.970 --> 53:29.790]  Now, you know, there are some things in this article that I'm reading that really flag some warning bells.
[53:29.910 --> 53:31.630]  Not new listener bells, but warning bells.
[53:32.050 --> 53:36.490]  There is always a concern with celebrity fan mail because it comes from unknown people.
[53:38.250 --> 53:39.570]  Everybody's known to somebody.
[53:39.570 --> 53:41.030]  You see where this is going?
[53:41.270 --> 53:44.430]  Mail from unknown people is going to be a bad thing now.
[53:44.590 --> 53:45.530]  It will be required.
[53:45.530 --> 53:49.910]  It might become a crime for you to send mail without a return address.
[53:49.910 --> 53:50.730]  Can you imagine that?
[53:51.070 --> 53:55.350]  And I see the same thing happening on the internet where, you know, something anonymous is considered bad.
[53:55.470 --> 53:58.210]  We see, you know, anonymous sources starting to shut down.
[53:58.350 --> 54:01.630]  We see people who do things anonymously being looked upon as criminals.
[54:02.150 --> 54:03.790]  You know, that's not a good thing.
[54:03.910 --> 54:05.550]  212-968-0500.
[54:07.050 --> 54:08.430]  You can call us...
[54:08.430 --> 54:09.010]  It's across Pennsylvania, Emmanuel.
[54:09.230 --> 54:09.610]  What's that?
[54:09.990 --> 54:12.510]  It's across Pennsylvania about four years ago.
[54:13.010 --> 54:16.570]  Governor Ridge, now our Chief of Homeland Security...
[54:16.570 --> 54:19.590]  And our next vice president, I'll bet, I want to put my money on that.
[54:19.670 --> 54:22.470]  I'll bet he'll be in a national office of real power.
[54:22.470 --> 54:26.970]  He was on the short list before, but anyway...
[54:26.970 --> 54:27.610]  A lot of phone lines.
[54:27.670 --> 54:28.550]  A lot of phone lines are ringing.
[54:28.550 --> 54:31.950]  If you have a phone line that's ringing right now and it's not being picked up, keep ringing.
[54:32.230 --> 54:36.130]  And if it times out for whatever reason, please call right back because we do have people down there.
[54:36.250 --> 54:37.150]  We're just a little short-staffed.
[54:37.170 --> 54:38.490]  There's five phones ringing there.
[54:38.490 --> 54:38.650]  Yeah.
[54:38.890 --> 54:39.030]  A lot.
[54:39.150 --> 54:39.390]  Now six.
[54:39.550 --> 54:39.690]  Yeah.
[54:40.230 --> 54:42.050]  It's going up and that's great.
[54:42.130 --> 54:43.030]  We need to get those phones answered.
[54:43.030 --> 54:44.330]  People want free t-shirts, Emmanuel.
[54:44.330 --> 54:47.650]  In fact, if anybody here would like to run down to the tally room and help out.
[54:47.670 --> 54:48.490]  And tally me bananas?
[54:48.570 --> 54:49.170]  Feel free.
[54:50.090 --> 54:53.330]  212-968-0500 is our phone number.
[54:54.650 --> 54:56.850]  I saw somebody was talking and I interrupted them.
[54:56.990 --> 54:57.390]  Who was it?
[54:58.390 --> 54:59.210]  Probably a Bernie.
[54:59.850 --> 55:00.870]  Bernie was talking about Tom Ridge.
[55:01.390 --> 55:02.390]  Oh, yeah.
[55:02.650 --> 55:02.770]  Yeah.
[55:03.130 --> 55:09.790]  You were speculating as to the potential future illegality of sending mail without a return address.
[55:09.850 --> 55:10.330]  Right, right.
[55:11.070 --> 55:34.530]  Governor Ridge here, or now Director of Homeland Security, Ridge, about four years ago here in Pennsylvania, signed a bill into law that made it a criminal offense to circumvent any I call identifying information from being sent by a telephone call.
[55:34.790 --> 55:48.170]  Now, it wasn't really clarified as to whether that meant just blocking your caller ID or whatever, but basically law enforcement wants to be able to track calls from cradle to grave from where they originate from and where they go to.
[55:48.170 --> 56:03.270]  And this is a bill that Tom Ridge signed into law here in Pennsylvania, making it a criminal offense to do whatever someone might want to do to prevent the identifying information being sent with their phone call.
[56:03.270 --> 56:08.090]  So, this kind of stuff might be coming, making it illegal to put a return address on your envelope.
[56:08.350 --> 56:12.550]  And I bet a lot of people will actually support this because it'll be for their security.
[56:12.830 --> 56:13.150]  Sure.
[56:13.450 --> 56:27.830]  Now, folks, I'm not at all saying that we should not take events seriously, but at the same time, we should also look at them realistically and realize that there are certain things that cannot be stopped no matter what kind of precautions you take.
[56:27.890 --> 56:33.090]  And if you take too many precautions, you've achieved the bad guy's objectives right there.
[56:33.270 --> 56:42.830]  I'd like to read a piece that appeared in postgazette.com by someone named Witold Wagzak.
[56:43.770 --> 56:44.950]  It's a very good piece.
[56:45.290 --> 56:48.550]  He's director of the American Civil Liberties Union Pittsburgh chapter.
[56:48.710 --> 56:50.210]  And I know the ACLU is taking a lot of heat.
[56:50.370 --> 56:51.590]  I don't know why, but they are.
[56:52.230 --> 57:01.450]  Our nation's leaders have for the past month been saying that the September 11th terrorist-inflicted carnage was an attack on freedom and that we now are fighting a war for freedom.
[57:01.450 --> 57:06.410]  Presumably, therefore, sacrificing our precious freedoms and civil liberties to defend them should be a last resort.
[57:06.870 --> 57:10.370]  Fortunately, we can both enhance security and still protect our liberties.
[57:10.730 --> 57:15.530]  Unfortunately, President Bush and Congress are on the verge of unnecessarily imperiling civil liberties.
[57:15.930 --> 57:19.330]  We clearly must make some changes to improve security against terrorists.
[57:19.530 --> 57:23.430]  Many recently enacted airport security measures are warranted and don't violate our rights.
[57:23.430 --> 57:36.570]  On the other hand, Congress, pushed hard by the administration, is about to pass anti-terrorism legislation that dramatically expands government's power to invade our privacy and indefinitely imprison non-citizens, even legal aliens.
[57:36.870 --> 57:44.390]  While some measures may be necessary to fight terrorism, it is absolutely unnecessary to dilute the most important civil liberties safeguard judicial review.
[57:44.390 --> 57:52.730]  Yet, the proposed legislation jettisons this most important protection, giving federal agents virtual free reign to spy on foreigners and American citizens.
[57:53.070 --> 57:57.750]  No one is suggesting that our government officials are evil or have anything but the best intentions.
[57:58.050 --> 58:02.850]  But Americans should remember Justice Louis Brandeis' famous admonition.
[58:04.270 --> 58:10.170]  Experience should teach us to be most on our guard to protect liberty when the government's purposes are beneficent.
[58:10.170 --> 58:16.210]  Men born to freedom are naturally alert to repel invasion of their liberty by evil-minded rulers.
[58:16.530 --> 58:22.970]  The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well-meaning, but without understanding.
[58:23.870 --> 58:34.090]  Few question the patriotism or integrity of 20th century American leaders like Attorney General Mitchell Palmer, who jailed union leaders and other political dissidents during World War I.
[58:34.390 --> 58:37.950]  Joseph McCarthy, who conducted a witch hunt to protect against communism.
[58:37.950 --> 58:38.730]  J.
[58:38.830 --> 58:52.670]  Edgar Hoover, who used surveillance powers similar to those now proposed to spy on and destroy anyone who questioned the status quo, including Martin Luther King Jr. and President Franklin Roosevelt, who imprisoned countless innocent Japanese Americans during World War II.
[58:53.290 --> 58:58.870]  We now generally recognize, however, that in the zeal to protect America, these men went too far.
[58:59.110 --> 59:01.370]  Their actions are historical embarrassments.
[59:02.410 --> 59:07.630]  Nevertheless, we are about to sow the seeds from more historical embarrassments and civil liberties abuses.
[59:07.950 --> 59:08.350]  How?
[59:08.650 --> 59:14.930]  The new, vastly increased surveillance and detention powers do not include the all-important judicial review safeguard.
[59:15.490 --> 59:18.750]  Judicial review is the most common and important civil liberties protection.
[59:19.110 --> 59:32.330]  Our Constitution's framers, who themselves were fighting a war, insisted that before government agents could search or seize homes, property, or people, a judge must determine there is probable cause to justify the liberty intrusion.
[59:32.850 --> 59:39.770]  Judicial review is an indispensable shield against misguided or overzealous agents, and it does not impede effective crime fighting.
[59:40.290 --> 59:43.170]  Historically, judges rarely refuse warrant requests.
[59:43.490 --> 59:50.010]  The administration claims the new powers include judicial review, but through various gimmicks, judges become mere rubber stamps.
[59:51.350 --> 59:57.470]  They will have neither authority nor means to check for and stop civil liberties abuses.
[59:57.890 --> 01:00:03.150]  Consequently, the new law does not provide meaningful judicial review before federal agents do the following.
[01:00:03.470 --> 01:00:05.270]  Review internet usage histories.
[01:00:05.950 --> 01:00:11.690]  Access, use, and disseminate sensitive educational banking, credit, consumer, and communications records.
[01:00:11.690 --> 01:00:21.710]  Sneak and peek searches, whereby agents enter your home, office, or other private place and conduct a search, take photographs, and download computer files without notifying you until later.
[01:00:22.390 --> 01:00:25.990]  Indefinitely detain non-citizens, including those here legally.
[01:00:26.930 --> 01:00:31.730]  Significantly, the surveillance powers can be used against not just foreign nationals, but also Americans.
[01:00:32.190 --> 01:00:41.610]  A new crime, domestic terrorism, could apply these anti-terrorist measures to investigate Operation Rescue, the Earth Liberation Front, and the World Trade Organization protesters.
[01:00:42.130 --> 01:00:47.470]  And as if that were not enough, the legislation expands CIA authority to engage in domestic spying.
[01:00:48.610 --> 01:00:56.970]  Law enforcement agents make mistakes, just as suspected Atlanta Olympic bomber Richard Jewell, and as we know from history, they can misuse their powers.
[01:00:57.210 --> 01:01:03.650]  Giving judges real power to halt civil liberties abuses is vital to freedom, and doing so doesn't interfere with terrorist fighting capability.
[01:01:03.650 --> 01:01:09.970]  At this historic time, when we reconsider our most important civic values, let's heed our forefathers.
[01:01:10.210 --> 01:01:16.930]  Benjamin Franklin said, they that can give up essential liberty or obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
[01:01:17.250 --> 01:01:22.130]  Thomas Jefferson reportedly added that those who trade liberty for safety will eventually lose both.
[01:01:22.870 --> 01:01:26.690]  And an excellent piece from the director of the ACLU in Pittsburgh.
[01:01:27.550 --> 01:01:30.730]  I think it's something that we need to pay attention to.
[01:01:30.910 --> 01:01:38.830]  There's a lot of leaping before looking going on here as far as passing laws and doing all kinds of not-smart things.
[01:01:39.390 --> 01:01:43.630]  I really am afraid of where we're going to wind up going, you know, because you can't undo these things.
[01:01:43.730 --> 01:01:44.290]  It's very hard.
[01:01:45.350 --> 01:01:46.490]  Laszlo, you just went on another trip.
[01:01:46.490 --> 01:01:47.930]  What's going on in the tally room?
[01:01:47.930 --> 01:01:49.350]  Well, there's not much chicken left.
[00:02.290 --> 00:03.010]  Absolute lunacy.
[00:03.190 --> 00:04.970]  And I had to answer some questions.
[00:05.230 --> 00:06.670]  But the number is still the same.
[00:06.830 --> 00:07.210]  You know why?
[00:07.210 --> 00:09.670]  They can't get over to the tally thing.
[00:09.670 --> 00:10.210]  Okay, that's good.
[00:10.250 --> 00:10.650]  No, that's good.
[00:10.690 --> 00:13.550]  When it's so busy that they can't finish their jobs, that's good.
[00:13.650 --> 00:13.950]  Right.
[00:14.150 --> 00:15.350]  Because they will finish their jobs later.
[00:16.110 --> 00:19.930]  Okay, 212-968-0500 is our phone number.
[00:20.550 --> 00:25.030]  We have an important announcement that we want to play in just a couple of moments.
[00:25.510 --> 00:30.550]  We'll be doing that just after we look at a couple of our news items.
[00:30.550 --> 00:33.790]  Bernie, is there any comment on the piece that we just read?
[00:35.310 --> 00:37.290]  I was quite touched by that.
[00:39.970 --> 01:00.390]  It's very sobering to read that and realize that the kinds of things that we're going to see implemented in this country very soon are exactly the kinds of things that our own politicians railed against not too many years ago as symbolic of a communist country.
[01:00.730 --> 01:02.990]  And I'm not saying we're becoming communists.
[01:02.990 --> 01:14.170]  I'm just saying that the characteristics of this legislation aren't too far off from what our own politicians were saying was evil not too long ago.
[01:14.170 --> 01:19.670]  So we should have a little sense of history and look back and see what it is that we really stand for.
[01:20.190 --> 01:22.970]  And, you know, what is it we're fighting for here, people?
[01:23.210 --> 01:26.030]  I mean, we're fighting for liberty, supposedly.
[01:26.030 --> 01:32.710]  And, ironically, we're seeing restrictions on liberty that are just unprecedented in this country.
[01:33.030 --> 01:42.990]  And I think you're right on the money, Emmanuel, about, you know, us losing some very important things that we're never going to get back once we lose them.
[01:42.990 --> 01:50.390]  So, I think people should really, I can't even say, write your legislators now, because they're not opening their mail.
[01:51.810 --> 01:52.950]  You can fax them.
[01:53.230 --> 01:54.310]  Or telephone them.
[01:54.590 --> 01:54.910]  Right.
[01:55.390 --> 01:55.910]  Yeah, I guess.
[01:56.170 --> 01:57.690]  Well, they're not in the office, as you know.
[01:57.970 --> 01:59.110]  That's right, they're not in their office.
[01:59.230 --> 02:01.610]  Speaking of losing things, they're gone forever.
[02:01.890 --> 02:04.110]  We must keep WBAI around.
[02:04.370 --> 02:04.650]  That's right.
[02:04.650 --> 02:10.610]  If you don't contribute $5, $50, $10, this could go away to the ether, and it's not coming back.
[02:10.710 --> 02:13.210]  212-968-0500.
[02:13.530 --> 02:14.250]  Jim joins us.
[02:14.390 --> 02:17.590]  What are your perspectives on this whole mess we seem to be in?
[02:17.790 --> 02:23.690]  Well, I just can't deal with the fact that being opposed to any of these new legislations would be un-American.
[02:23.690 --> 02:27.490]  These legislations are un-American in their nature.
[02:27.890 --> 02:32.330]  You know, we're talking about fighting for liberty, and we're giving up our liberties as we speak.
[02:32.330 --> 02:36.510]  And if you say anything against it, you're going to get blacklisted, and you're going to be un-American.
[02:36.510 --> 02:41.010]  And hey, you can end up on some kind of investigation yourself, you know?
[02:41.170 --> 02:41.430]  Uh-huh.
[02:41.530 --> 02:42.630]  Who knows what's going to happen?
[02:42.750 --> 02:44.210]  I think it's going to get extremely bad.
[02:44.710 --> 02:45.810]  Yeah, and it's getting there, too.
[02:45.950 --> 02:54.970]  I mean, there's a story in citypaper.net, Bernie, I think you alerted me to this one, where a guy was actually kept from getting on an airplane because of the book he was carrying?
[02:55.250 --> 02:56.070]  It was a novel.
[02:56.570 --> 02:57.690]  He was carrying a novel.
[02:57.790 --> 03:00.410]  And what, they objected to the picture on the front cover?
[03:01.130 --> 03:09.150]  Yeah, it was a novel about an environmental activist, a violent environmental activist, an extreme minority, I might add.
[03:10.150 --> 03:15.830]  It had this picture, I think it was even a cartoon picture, of a hand.
[03:15.830 --> 03:25.750]  It was a drawing of a hand holding a bunch of sticks of dynamite with an alarm clock, you know, like a typical Hollywood-type bomb prototype.
[03:27.690 --> 03:29.410]  And this was a work of fiction.
[03:30.010 --> 03:31.830]  And this guy tried to get on a plane.
[03:31.990 --> 03:32.750]  Well, why don't you read the story?
[03:32.870 --> 03:33.390]  I just sent it to you.
[03:34.430 --> 03:35.510]  Well, it's a huge story.
[03:35.830 --> 03:36.550]  Oh, don't read it.
[03:36.630 --> 03:37.890]  Well, this guy got onto...
[03:38.250 --> 03:41.710]  This guy, he's an American citizen, lives here in Philadelphia.
[03:41.810 --> 03:46.270]  He went to get on a plane, I forget where, but it was somewhere else in the United States.
[03:46.270 --> 03:46.850]  It was the Phoenix.
[03:47.290 --> 03:48.450]  It was the Phoenix, okay.
[03:48.970 --> 03:59.310]  And when he went through security, that book was looked at, and the security people scowled at it and led him through.
[03:59.510 --> 04:02.890]  And then a few minutes later, he found himself surrounded by...
[04:02.890 --> 04:03.650]  What was it?
[04:04.930 --> 04:05.770]  National Guard.
[04:05.970 --> 04:06.990]  National Guardsmen.
[04:07.190 --> 04:07.470]  Yeah.
[04:07.730 --> 04:09.630]  Armed soldiers, he was surrounded by.
[04:09.630 --> 04:10.750]  For reading the wrong book.
[04:11.150 --> 04:16.330]  No, basically, the National Guardsmen said he took the book and asked me why I was reading it.
[04:16.750 --> 04:16.950]  Yeah.
[04:17.110 --> 04:18.890]  Then they started flipping through it and making notes.
[04:19.190 --> 04:19.410]  Mm-hmm.
[04:19.410 --> 04:22.650]  They examined the novel for 45 minutes, scratching out notes the entire time.
[04:22.830 --> 04:25.230]  They questioned him about the purpose of his trip to Phoenix.
[04:26.730 --> 04:27.170]  Unbelievable.
[04:27.630 --> 04:28.070]  And...
[04:28.070 --> 04:29.390]  Then they wouldn't let him on the plane.
[04:29.730 --> 04:30.030]  Mm-hmm.
[04:31.470 --> 04:35.110]  And so, what, he went home, and he called...
[04:35.110 --> 04:36.310]  What airline was it?
[04:36.490 --> 04:37.330]  I think it was United.
[04:37.350 --> 04:37.970]  It was United.
[04:37.970 --> 04:40.110]  He went home and got rid of the book and came back.
[04:40.390 --> 04:40.670]  Yeah.
[04:41.470 --> 04:41.830]  And...
[04:41.830 --> 04:42.750]  He brought a different book with him.
[04:42.750 --> 04:46.090]  This time, he was flagged for reading a Harry Potter book.
[04:46.210 --> 04:47.470]  Yeah, he brought a Harry Potter book with him.
[04:47.770 --> 04:48.550]  They flagged him for that?
[04:48.730 --> 04:52.050]  Oh, they went through the Harry Potter book, too.
[04:52.050 --> 04:55.470]  This time, they took my Harry Potter book, and about four people studied it for 20 minutes.
[04:56.730 --> 04:59.530]  And finally, they felt he was not a security threat.
[04:59.590 --> 05:03.510]  They told him to be permitted on the plane, but that he couldn't pass through security until 2.30 p.m.
[05:04.430 --> 05:09.990]  At the appointed time, an escort took him through security while at least 15 law enforcement officials looked on.
[05:10.850 --> 05:13.670]  But then he was ushered into a private interrogation room.
[05:13.750 --> 05:15.590]  They patted me down and found nothing, he said.
[05:16.070 --> 05:21.970]  But when he emerged from the room, a supervisor of airport operations for United told him he would not be allowed to fly.
[05:21.970 --> 05:24.750]  He said he didn't know the reason why, just conveying the information.
[05:26.590 --> 05:29.670]  This was after United told him that he could fly.
[05:29.850 --> 05:30.290]  Mm-hmm.
[05:30.990 --> 05:32.610]  After he complained about the first treatment.
[05:33.070 --> 05:34.350]  Did this guy ever get out of Philadelphia?
[05:34.390 --> 05:35.450]  Was he still stuck there?
[05:36.390 --> 05:37.130]  You know, I think he...
[05:37.130 --> 05:38.110]  I don't know what happened.
[05:38.230 --> 05:41.650]  The story was written before he got to that point.
[05:41.770 --> 05:42.530]  But I don't know...
[05:42.530 --> 05:45.750]  Well, I guess he probably would have had the same trouble on Amtrak the way they're...
[05:45.750 --> 05:47.570]  You know, you played that message earlier.
[05:47.570 --> 05:50.470]  You have to show all kinds of personal identification just to get on training.
[05:50.470 --> 05:56.030]  And, you know, we can't even begin to discuss what Arab-Americans are going through.
[05:56.170 --> 05:57.750]  This guy isn't even Arab-American.
[05:59.370 --> 06:04.770]  What's going on with people traveling who look like they might be Arab, they're being questioned a lot more.
[06:04.810 --> 06:07.730]  I've heard all kinds of instances.
[06:08.590 --> 06:14.410]  The airlines and the authorities say that they're random checks, you know, and everybody is subject.
[06:14.550 --> 06:15.470]  But they're obviously not random.
[06:15.530 --> 06:18.650]  In fact, I heard of a case where one person was stopped twice in one day.
[06:18.650 --> 06:25.470]  What seems to be happening is that certain people are targeted and then other people are randomly targeted to make it seem as if the whole thing is random.
[06:25.950 --> 06:26.990]  It's insane.
[06:27.310 --> 06:30.930]  This kind of reaction is completely what we should not be doing.
[06:31.130 --> 06:33.570]  And it's completely ineffective as well.
[06:33.850 --> 06:38.290]  In addition to all of this, there's support growing for a national ID card.
[06:39.190 --> 06:42.790]  I saw a headline today in the SiliconValley.com.
[06:43.530 --> 06:44.490]  Larry Ellison.
[06:44.630 --> 06:47.130]  Support grows for Ellison's national ID card proposal.
[06:47.270 --> 06:51.870]  If only it were Harlan Ellison, but no, it's Larry Ellison, a Silicon Valley software mogul.
[06:52.350 --> 07:02.210]  His proposal to create a national ID card has gained substantial ground in the interest of top Bush administration officials and has signal that the controversial idea may be closer to reality than ever.
[07:02.730 --> 07:08.350]  In an interview with the Mercury News last Tuesday, Ellison, the chairman and CEO of Oracle, said he met with U.S.
[07:08.630 --> 07:12.650]  Attorney General Ashcroft and officials at the CIA and FBI in Washington, D.C.
[07:12.730 --> 07:14.450]  over the past week to discuss the idea.
[07:15.250 --> 07:15.650]  U.S.
[07:15.910 --> 07:22.010]  Senator Dianne Feinstein, the one who opens the mail with the radiation suits, she has endorsed it.
[07:22.070 --> 07:26.930]  Other tech executives have jumped on board and even some prominent civil libertarians have said the idea is worth pursuing.
[07:26.930 --> 07:38.010]  We are in the process of putting a proposal together and analyzing what it would take to get to something, to get something running in a matter of a small number of months, like three months, 90 days.
[07:38.990 --> 07:39.330]  Cool.
[07:39.930 --> 07:41.550]  Did you know the pledge or something?
[07:41.550 --> 07:42.610]  No, that's the bat line.
[07:43.050 --> 07:45.930]  I can't answer the bat line while I'm on the phone, so there.
[07:46.790 --> 07:47.870]  While I'm on the air, rather.
[07:48.070 --> 07:49.050]  Is everybody missing this?
[07:49.210 --> 07:55.930]  But weren't these alleged terrorists equipped with a government identification already?
[07:56.910 --> 07:57.730]  I believe so.
[07:57.850 --> 07:58.930]  If they had a pilot identification...
[07:58.930 --> 07:59.890]  It wouldn't have done anything.
[08:00.050 --> 08:00.910]  That's the point.
[08:01.190 --> 08:02.810]  People can carry fake ID.
[08:02.990 --> 08:04.130]  They can get around these systems.
[08:04.290 --> 08:06.590]  I'm feeling some un-American in this room.
[08:06.790 --> 08:09.730]  Maybe we'll just skip this step altogether and go to the chip in the head.
[08:10.110 --> 08:11.930]  You can read my thoughts and track me at the same time.
[08:11.950 --> 08:13.190]  Yeah, you have to be able to read brainwaves.
[08:13.270 --> 08:14.190]  We won't be able to stop terrorism.
[08:14.350 --> 08:21.410]  I believe also Mr. Ellison, who is the CEO of Oracle, is proposing that this ID be backed by an Oracle database.
[08:21.410 --> 08:26.070]  They're looking at getting something running in a manner of 90 days.
[08:26.330 --> 08:28.790]  We can put this technology up very, very quickly.
[08:29.470 --> 08:39.730]  The idea of a national ID card has been debated since the 1930s, but Ellison's proposal in the wake of the September 11 terrorist attacks has reignited the dispute over privacy and security.
[08:39.950 --> 08:43.850]  We can't even do a decent census, and they think this is going to go through?
[08:45.670 --> 08:47.550]  Like I said, folks, scary times.
[08:47.570 --> 08:50.270]  I brought a CD just in case you get a little too un-American.
[08:50.530 --> 08:50.770]  Okay.
[08:50.970 --> 08:55.190]  It's an entire CD of America the Beautiful.
[08:55.590 --> 08:55.910]  All right.
[08:56.470 --> 08:58.210]  Let's get some phone calls coming in, folks.
[08:58.470 --> 08:59.350]  That number still hasn't changed.
[08:59.410 --> 09:00.810]  I guess the people are still writing things down.
[09:01.390 --> 09:02.330]  They're crazy in there.
[09:02.970 --> 09:05.050]  The lines right now don't look like they're doing anything.
[09:05.210 --> 09:07.690]  So call 212-968-0500.
[09:08.050 --> 09:08.530]  That's right.
[09:08.750 --> 09:09.970]  The phone lines are open.
[09:10.510 --> 09:15.190]  If we don't raise another $3,000 in the next 50 minutes, we're selling the station to Clear Channel.
[09:15.570 --> 09:16.130]  Oh, no.
[09:16.290 --> 09:16.870]  Can we do that?
[09:17.290 --> 09:17.670]  Yes.
[09:18.210 --> 09:21.150]  Because technically, Off the Hook does have the power to do that.
[09:21.330 --> 09:24.450]  I don't know how we got that power, but we can sell the station to Clear Channel.
[09:24.790 --> 09:25.170]  Excellent.
[09:25.410 --> 09:25.570]  Yeah.
[09:26.290 --> 09:29.110]  I never asked for the power, but it was left in my mailbox.
[09:29.630 --> 09:32.190]  Emanuel, you have the power now to sell the station to Clear...
[09:32.190 --> 09:33.830]  I can't sell it to anybody else, just to Clear Channel.
[09:34.030 --> 09:34.710]  Better call now.
[09:34.850 --> 09:34.970]  Yeah.
[09:35.110 --> 09:39.090]  So please make those phone lines ring, 212-968-0500.
[09:39.530 --> 09:46.930]  Let's get a flurry of phone calls, and then we'll be taking your phone calls as well in the moments that we have left.
[09:48.470 --> 09:53.810]  Now, we said that we have an important announcement, and we do.
[09:53.810 --> 09:57.550]  We have an important announcement that I'm going to play for you now.
[09:58.750 --> 10:05.410]  And it's not something that I really ever wanted to have to play, but time seemed to have dictated this.
[10:06.430 --> 10:13.610]  Last week, when I came into the radio station to do the show, as you may recall, I was a bit flustered.
[10:13.750 --> 10:17.170]  I'd just gone through what's known as a rail condition, whatever that is, on the subway.
[10:17.670 --> 10:23.010]  And I just got here at exactly the stroke of 8, which is when the program usually goes on the air.
[10:24.470 --> 10:30.370]  And, you know, it was one of those things, you fly through the door and sit down and go on mic and do a radio show.
[10:30.570 --> 10:37.950]  And basically, you hopefully prepare the radio show before you get to the station so that you can actually do something halfway intelligent.
[10:38.470 --> 10:40.970]  So I had all this information prepared.
[10:41.190 --> 10:42.570]  I ran in and sat down.
[10:43.150 --> 10:51.410]  And that's when Isaac, who you know has been on this radio program for, I guess, about the last four years or so, handed me a CD.
[10:52.670 --> 10:55.230]  And he said, I'd like you to play this at the end of the show.
[10:56.070 --> 10:57.110]  Tonight's my last night.
[10:57.270 --> 11:01.450]  And this 10-minute CD explains why.
[11:03.530 --> 11:14.410]  Well, at the time I was presented with that, I said, look, I'm not going to do that because, first of all, there's been absolutely no conversation concerning this matter before.
[11:14.570 --> 11:18.230]  I wanted an opportunity to talk to him about this before he made a decision like that.
[11:18.770 --> 11:23.450]  I said, look, let's talk about this and see what's going on here.
[11:23.470 --> 11:24.630]  What's the problem?
[11:26.290 --> 11:35.330]  So basically, I said, look, I'll play this thing next week, but I want to talk to you before we go and take that step.
[11:36.910 --> 11:39.330]  Unfortunately, he didn't stick around after the show.
[11:39.890 --> 11:42.570]  Never got a chance to actually talk to him about this.
[11:43.430 --> 11:52.410]  But I made it clear that I did not think this was a good move, but I agreed to actually play this announcement that he recorded.
[11:54.870 --> 12:00.910]  I know Mike also tried to talk to him and didn't work out.
[12:01.230 --> 12:05.510]  So this is a message from Isaac as to why he's leaving off the hook.
[12:06.190 --> 12:08.770]  And we'll take your phone calls right afterwards.
[12:10.530 --> 12:12.970]  Ladies and gentlemen, listeners, good evening.
[12:13.430 --> 12:18.170]  I'm taking this time to advise you of a decision which, though long in the making, has finally been made.
[12:18.690 --> 12:21.870]  This will be my last broadcast as a regular commentator here on Off the Hook.
[12:22.850 --> 12:25.550]  I'm sure that there is a part of the audience cheering right now.
[12:26.050 --> 12:28.990]  I've been told that there may be a small segment of the audience weeping.
[12:29.770 --> 12:34.110]  I'm much more interested, and always have been, than you, those that are listening.
[12:34.630 --> 12:36.870]  You are no doubt asking yourself why.
[12:37.350 --> 12:42.290]  In the interest of becoming a better Boolean being, I'll first address the not why.
[12:42.810 --> 12:46.670]  I am not leaving because of any policy or change thereof at WBAI.
[12:46.970 --> 12:51.570]  I've never been involved in those decisions and reserve any opinion I may have of them.
[12:52.670 --> 12:56.050]  I'm not leaving due to an unresolved financial situation with the station.
[12:56.670 --> 13:03.810]  Though it is strongly indicative of the serious issues I have with remaining on the air here, I am not so petty as to allow this to impact my decision-making.
[13:04.230 --> 13:09.070]  Any legal action taken related to this non-payment for services rendered are, likewise, irrelevant.
[13:09.970 --> 13:14.050]  I'm not leaving because of any personal mistreatment I've received at the station.
[13:14.470 --> 13:19.630]  Those persons I've had contact with have been nothing but pleasant, and I shall miss the regular opportunities to chat with them.
[13:20.310 --> 13:24.070]  I'm not leaving because Emmanuel has asked or told me to do so.
[13:24.790 --> 13:29.950]  He has never made such a request, nor do I believe that he would ever make such a request of me.
[13:30.390 --> 13:36.250]  In fact, despite whatever on-air clashing you've borne witness to each week, outside the program we are cordial and friendly.
[13:37.650 --> 13:43.910]  Finally, I'm not leaving because of calls made or emails sent by audience members that wish this voice to be silenced.
[13:44.390 --> 13:46.670]  I have no regard for their tedious malignment.
[13:47.150 --> 13:51.830]  The only exception to this is that their absence would be an indication to me that I'm doing something wrong.
[13:52.770 --> 13:55.130]  That said, I'll attempt to address the why.
[13:56.030 --> 13:58.090]  To do this, I'd like to play for you a song.
[13:58.270 --> 14:06.790]  It was written by an artist whose body of work can be called, Waking to Reason, or perhaps it is more appropriately self-titled, Chasing Down the Dawn.
[14:07.710 --> 14:14.350]  Ms. Jewel Kilcher has earned my admiration and respect, and I hope one day to have the honor of sharing even an hour with her in philosophical conversation.
[14:15.650 --> 14:23.490]  I'd like to play a track from her album, Spirit, entitled Life Uncommon, and I encourage you listeners to practice your skill on the lyrics.
[14:23.490 --> 14:26.730]  Don't worry, mother.
[14:28.830 --> 14:31.430]  It'll be alright.
[14:34.970 --> 14:37.070]  Don't worry, sister.
[14:38.090 --> 14:39.810]  Say your prayers.
[14:39.810 --> 14:42.070]  And sleep tight.
[14:42.070 --> 14:42.130]  And sleep tight.
[14:44.350 --> 14:46.910]  And it'll be fine.
[14:49.530 --> 14:52.070]  Lover of mine.
[14:54.090 --> 14:57.170]  It'll be just fine.
[14:59.630 --> 15:07.250]  And lend your voices only to sounds of freedom.
[15:11.660 --> 15:19.860]  No longer lend your strength to that which you wish to be free from.
[15:20.120 --> 15:22.420]  Feel lies with love and bravery.
[15:22.700 --> 15:29.460]  And you shall lead a life uncommon.
[15:31.980 --> 15:35.280]  I've heard your anguish.
[15:36.480 --> 15:38.820]  I've heard your anguish.
[15:38.820 --> 15:40.300]  I've heard your heart's cry out.
[15:42.640 --> 15:44.920]  We are tired.
[15:45.760 --> 15:47.500]  We are weary.
[15:47.840 --> 15:50.400]  But we aren't worn out.
[15:51.880 --> 15:53.640]  You only set down.
[15:53.640 --> 15:55.760]  You set down your chains.
[15:59.700 --> 16:05.320]  Alltechnic Psalm ما Set down your chains.
[16:07.060 --> 16:15.320]  And lend your voices only to sounds of freedom.
[16:19.700 --> 16:27.920]  No longer lend your strength to that which you wish to be free from.
[16:28.220 --> 16:30.420]  Fill eyes with love and bravery.
[16:30.760 --> 16:37.920]  And you shall leave a life in common.
[16:37.920 --> 16:44.240]  There are plenty of people that pray for peace.
[16:44.580 --> 16:49.200]  But if praying were enough, it would have come to be.
[16:49.760 --> 16:54.260]  Let your words enslave no one.
[16:54.700 --> 16:59.020]  In the heavens you hash themselves to hear.
[16:59.700 --> 17:05.510]  Our voices ring out clear with sounds of freedom.
[17:07.920 --> 17:12.920]  The sounds of freedom unknown.
[17:15.260 --> 17:18.320]  Come on you unbeliever.
[17:20.710 --> 17:23.850]  Move out of the way.
[17:25.610 --> 17:29.610]  There is a new army coming.
[17:30.530 --> 17:33.590]  And we are armed with faith.
[17:36.190 --> 17:38.690]  To live.
[17:41.250 --> 17:43.390]  We must give.
[17:47.690 --> 17:48.290]  To live.
[17:53.180 --> 17:58.580]  We must give.
[18:07.660 --> 18:08.360]  To love.
[18:08.360 --> 18:28.540]  To that which we wish to be free from For your lives with love and bravery Then we shall leave And lend our voices Only to sounds of freedom No
[18:31.890 --> 18:41.450]  longer lend our strength To that which we wish to be free from For your lives with love and bravery
[18:58.170 --> 19:04.150]  It's mildly shocking and amusing to me when I contemplate that I've been a regular part of this program for the past four years.
[19:04.870 --> 19:08.910]  Shocking that so much time has passed and amusing that I didn't notice it go.
[19:09.750 --> 19:12.910]  I came to Off the Hook following the Beyond Hope conference in 1997.
[19:13.710 --> 19:17.710]  I saw my role chiefly as bringing technical expertise to the table.
[19:18.390 --> 19:20.890]  Over the years, I hope I've successfully shed some light on it.
[19:20.910 --> 19:25.450]  The dark nooks and crannies of the complex systems we find ourselves surrounded by in the world today.
[19:27.790 --> 19:31.610]  As time passed, though, I found the program gradually shifting its focus.
[19:31.950 --> 19:38.970]  I initially came to be part of a program about hacking, concerned with technology, how it worked, how it can work, and its role in our lives.
[19:39.590 --> 19:47.650]  As time passed, the program moved to being less about hacking and more about hackers, their goals, their lives, their problems.
[19:47.650 --> 19:55.790]  It is on this last aspect that the focus has drifted still further, away from the technology itself and towards the problems with policy surrounding technology.
[19:56.390 --> 20:02.970]  In its latest form, the program seems to concentrate on the general impact of policy that vaguely connects with technology.
[20:03.830 --> 20:07.370]  As this change was taking place, I and my role evolved.
[20:07.690 --> 20:11.350]  As we moved towards hackers, I provided the perspectives of a hacker.
[20:11.530 --> 20:15.010]  As we moved toward policy, I brought the counterpoint to the popular argument.
[20:15.810 --> 20:18.810]  All the while, though, the technology marched on and was being ignored.
[20:19.070 --> 20:24.970]  I felt quiet frustration that important developments and events were not being recognized due to running out of time.
[20:25.450 --> 20:32.030]  I found myself, especially in the most recent weeks, accomplishing nothing more than justifying a sagacious position for the hour.
[20:32.810 --> 20:43.490]  While I am able to do so quite well, I walked away each time with not only the knowledge that the technology was still being ignored, but also that little progress was made in any direction.
[20:44.870 --> 20:50.610]  That my strength was being tapped not to build, but to merely defend that which should not require defense.
[20:52.550 --> 20:54.490]  I found that I was not alone in this feeling.
[20:54.650 --> 20:57.670]  There are those that had found me and vented their frustration.
[20:58.350 --> 21:01.270]  I encouraged them not to listen to the program if it bothered them so.
[21:02.110 --> 21:04.590]  And this had taken a very heavy toll on me.
[21:05.010 --> 21:12.430]  It was a terrible violation of my integrity, both as a man and a broadcaster, to turn people away from the work of which I should be very proud.
[21:13.430 --> 21:15.190]  The transgression did not end there, though.
[21:15.830 --> 21:19.370]  I found myself ashamed to be associated with the station and its regular programming.
[21:19.650 --> 21:27.570]  I'd recently had the misfortune of tuning in at various times to hear some of the most vile, vitriolic, anti-American speech I'd ever encountered.
[21:28.990 --> 21:37.350]  It is not so much that the voices from the ether intelligently presented controversial viewpoints, but that they were so adamantly defending the absolutely irrational.
[21:38.530 --> 21:42.610]  This personal situation required resolution, and I have done so by leaving this program.
[21:43.070 --> 21:45.390]  I doubt that this will be the last you hear of me on the air.
[21:45.630 --> 21:47.470]  You couldn't keep me out of radio if you tried.
[21:47.970 --> 21:55.230]  This is truly the greatest of broadcast media, and I have hope that a program better suited to the interests of both you and myself will come to be.
[21:56.710 --> 22:01.630]  If you want to contact me for any reason, you are more than welcome to do so via email.
[22:02.130 --> 22:11.630]  Isaac at ctech.org, IndiaZuluAlphaAlphaCharlie at SierraEchoTangoEchoCharlie.OscarRomeoGolf or by post.
[22:11.970 --> 22:13.650]  Isaac Falcon, P.O.
[22:13.950 --> 22:21.210]  Box 770574, Woodside, New York, 11377-0574.
[22:21.610 --> 22:24.410]  Thank you for listening, good night, and God bless.
[22:35.160 --> 22:37.780]  And that was Isaac's farewell.
[22:40.240 --> 22:45.360]  And while there's much I could say at this point, I'd rather open up the phones and hear what you have to say.
[22:45.500 --> 22:48.860]  212-209-2900 is our call in line.
[22:50.040 --> 22:59.580]  At the same time, I encourage you to keep the pledge line ringing because that's what's going to keep us here in weeks, months, years to come.
[23:00.440 --> 23:02.920]  And that number is 212-9680-500.
[23:27.080 --> 23:28.020]  Good evening, you're on the air.
[23:28.860 --> 23:31.960]  Yeah, I just want to say, sorry to see Isaac go.
[23:32.080 --> 23:35.920]  I thought you added a nice voice of reason to the show.
[23:36.600 --> 23:38.220]  Okay, thanks for your comment.
[23:39.480 --> 23:40.480]  Good evening, you're on the air.
[23:42.320 --> 23:42.680]  Okay.
[23:43.100 --> 23:44.200]  Good evening, you're on the air.
[23:46.360 --> 23:47.100]  Speak up, please.
[23:47.920 --> 23:48.280]  Manuel?
[23:48.540 --> 23:48.920]  Yes, go ahead.
[23:48.920 --> 23:59.440]  Yeah, I don't know if this would be something you guys would know about, but erasing audio cassette tapes is the only...
[23:59.440 --> 24:05.140]  I bought something at Radio Shack, but it's kind of cumbersome to use it.
[24:05.240 --> 24:07.300]  Now, is there some other way to do that?
[24:08.320 --> 24:09.480]  Like some machine?
[24:09.700 --> 24:10.980]  Because I know, like, they have...
[24:10.980 --> 24:13.460]  Oh, and also I needed a rewinder for cassette tapes.
[24:13.460 --> 24:14.380]  Well, they have those things.
[24:14.380 --> 24:20.840]  They have something known as a bulk eraser, which will allow you to erase the entire tape just by putting it over...
[24:21.680 --> 24:24.780]  You press a button, the magnetic field goes off, and your whole tape is white.
[24:24.840 --> 24:25.920]  It's a pretty scary thing, actually.
[24:26.100 --> 24:27.860]  But they have those.
[24:27.980 --> 24:29.140]  We have them at the radio station.
[24:29.680 --> 24:31.520]  I suggest looking at some audio magazines.
[24:31.960 --> 24:48.120]  I'd like to ask people, I don't want to dictate terms too much, but we obviously have talked about quite a few dramatic things tonight, both in the future of what's awaiting us in this country and in this world, and also what we just heard from Isaac.
[24:48.260 --> 24:51.560]  So I'd like to be able to confine the remarks to those subjects.
[24:51.760 --> 24:57.740]  And, of course, we have all the other weeks of the year to talk about technical things of other natures as well.
[24:57.740 --> 25:00.100]  So I just would like to hear some feedback.
[25:00.480 --> 25:06.500]  And, again, I also must stress, all of our call-in lines are busy right now, so you won't get through with that.
[25:07.120 --> 25:13.180]  If you want to support the station, support the radio show, add your voice to the list of people who keep us going.
[25:13.180 --> 25:14.600]  It's extremely important.
[25:14.600 --> 25:16.480]  It's the only thing that keeps us going.
[25:16.820 --> 25:19.380]  That number is 212-968-0500.
[25:19.640 --> 25:25.640]  We have special pledge levels that our pledge people will be happy to tell you about.
[25:26.320 --> 25:28.500]  Again, please make those numbers go up.
[25:28.660 --> 25:36.160]  We're at $2,600, which is a very good number to be at, but we don't want to stay at that number for too long, and hopefully there are many more pledges yet to be counted.
[25:36.300 --> 25:37.800]  212-968-0500.
[25:38.180 --> 25:39.160]  Let's take some more phone calls.
[25:39.480 --> 25:40.020]  Good evening.
[25:40.160 --> 25:40.400]  You're on.
[25:41.420 --> 25:43.700]  Okay, and people, please stay on the phone when you call.
[25:43.920 --> 25:44.440]  You're on.
[25:46.720 --> 25:47.080]  Hello?
[25:48.420 --> 25:50.400]  Okay, that person's having trouble with their phone.
[25:50.520 --> 25:50.900]  How about you?
[25:51.020 --> 25:51.260]  Good evening.
[25:51.500 --> 25:52.140]  Yes, go ahead.
[25:52.620 --> 25:53.680]  Good evening, Emmanuel.
[25:53.960 --> 25:54.440]  What's up?
[25:55.480 --> 25:59.620]  There's a term that has been being used recently in the world.
[25:59.820 --> 26:01.320]  It's called cognitive dissonance.
[26:02.200 --> 26:09.920]  Now, Isaac said that it was more important to talk about the technology than the government policy affecting it.
[26:10.060 --> 26:15.140]  Now, this isn't the most cognitively dissonant statement a person could make in these times.
[26:15.320 --> 26:16.300]  I don't know what is.
[26:17.340 --> 26:18.360]  Do you agree with me?
[26:19.260 --> 26:21.520]  I'm actually just content to listen right now.
[26:21.620 --> 26:21.780]  What?
[26:22.000 --> 26:24.280]  I'm just content to listen to what you're saying right now.
[26:24.480 --> 26:24.600]  Okay.
[26:26.220 --> 26:30.160]  I'm just saying that at MIT, I believe the term is tool.
[26:31.240 --> 26:32.680]  A person is a tool.
[26:33.100 --> 26:34.980]  And I can't believe he's that naive.
[26:35.260 --> 26:40.600]  You know, I at one time said he was somebody, you know, a government agent in training.
[26:40.600 --> 26:42.360]  And I think that still applies.
[26:42.560 --> 26:44.220]  So I'm going to hang up with someone else to call.
[26:44.220 --> 26:44.640]  Okay.
[26:44.840 --> 26:48.300]  And we're going to try to figure out what that weird noise is that seems to be coming on all the phone calls right now.
[26:50.960 --> 26:51.280]  Okay.
[26:51.300 --> 26:52.240]  It's awfully strange.
[26:52.660 --> 26:53.740]  It's a bug in the machine.
[26:55.080 --> 26:55.440]  All right.
[26:55.500 --> 26:57.720]  Call in line is 212-209-2900.
[26:58.520 --> 26:58.980]  Good evening.
[26:59.100 --> 26:59.440]  You're on the air.
[26:59.880 --> 27:00.160]  Okay.
[27:00.520 --> 27:02.640]  There's really something bizarre going on with our phones.
[27:02.960 --> 27:04.400]  I'm going to play that dial tone again.
[27:04.780 --> 27:05.500]  Can you hear this noise?
[27:08.890 --> 27:09.970]  I thought I heard feedback.
[27:10.210 --> 27:10.390]  Okay.
[27:10.430 --> 27:10.990]  I guess I didn't.
[27:11.810 --> 27:13.470]  I'm not sure if something strange is going on.
[27:13.750 --> 27:14.490]  Let's try over here.
[27:14.490 --> 27:15.470]  Good evening.
[27:15.610 --> 27:16.010]  You're on the air.
[27:16.970 --> 27:17.230]  Hello?
[27:17.610 --> 27:18.130]  Yes, go ahead.
[27:18.770 --> 27:19.770]  Yeah, I had a question.
[27:20.170 --> 27:22.750]  You were talking about the national ID card.
[27:22.910 --> 27:23.170]  Uh-huh.
[27:23.590 --> 27:28.670]  I've heard some, you know, conversations or some reports about that in the past.
[27:28.910 --> 27:32.210]  What exactly is the point of having a national ID card?
[27:32.350 --> 27:35.850]  I mean, why is the government guessing that this would deter anything?
[27:37.570 --> 27:38.010]  Okay.
[27:38.090 --> 27:39.850]  This is definitely feedback of some sort.
[27:40.430 --> 27:41.270]  Is it something in queue?
[27:41.530 --> 27:42.210]  No, no.
[27:42.310 --> 27:42.970]  It's nothing in queue.
[27:44.290 --> 27:45.710]  Some of your pots are red.
[27:46.090 --> 27:46.290]  Hold on.
[27:46.390 --> 27:47.290]  Let's bring this one up again.
[27:47.410 --> 27:47.470]  Hello?
[27:47.470 --> 27:47.870]  Are you still there?
[27:48.490 --> 27:48.610]  Okay.
[27:48.670 --> 27:49.150]  Yeah, I'm still here.
[27:49.230 --> 27:50.110]  This seems to have fixed it.
[27:50.170 --> 27:50.290]  Hang on.
[27:50.370 --> 27:52.250]  I'm going to try something else and then we'll see if it comes back.
[27:52.790 --> 27:53.510]  Say something now?
[27:54.690 --> 27:55.070]  You there?
[27:55.190 --> 27:55.310]  Okay.
[27:55.370 --> 27:56.110]  You're not on that one.
[27:56.290 --> 27:57.090]  You're on this one.
[27:57.090 --> 27:59.630]  But if I bring this up, I'll bet we get feedback.
[28:00.250 --> 28:00.470]  Okay.
[28:01.030 --> 28:01.850]  No, we don't get feedback.
[28:01.930 --> 28:02.130]  Okay.
[28:02.130 --> 28:02.830]  I don't understand that.
[28:02.950 --> 28:05.930]  It only happens when you don't want it to.
[28:06.650 --> 28:07.430]  I'm still here.
[28:07.510 --> 28:07.690]  Okay.
[28:07.730 --> 28:08.170]  You're still there.
[28:09.010 --> 28:09.450]  I'm sorry.
[28:09.510 --> 28:10.270]  Just repeat what you said again.
[28:12.730 --> 28:13.050]  Hello?
[28:13.650 --> 28:14.230]  I'm here.
[28:14.230 --> 28:14.610]  Okay.
[28:14.710 --> 28:15.610]  Repeat what you said again.
[28:16.010 --> 28:16.250]  Okay.
[28:16.310 --> 28:19.710]  I guess my question is about the national ID cards.
[28:20.590 --> 28:24.190]  I read a little bit about it and I'm just trying to understand.
[28:24.190 --> 28:25.250]  You mentioned it tonight.
[28:25.470 --> 28:28.370]  What is the point of having a national ID card?
[28:29.350 --> 28:29.790]  Okay.
[28:29.870 --> 28:31.650]  What is the point of having a national ID card?
[28:32.570 --> 28:33.410]  Good question.
[28:33.490 --> 28:34.790]  That's what we're trying to figure out ourselves.
[28:35.390 --> 28:42.710]  We imagine it would be for the purpose of tracking people, knowing where they are, who they are.
[28:42.710 --> 28:51.470]  But again, such efforts have never been proven to be something that makes a more secure society.
[28:51.470 --> 28:57.550]  It makes a more watched over society, but I don't think it does anything to improve security.
[28:57.550 --> 28:58.430]  I don't see how it could.
[28:58.610 --> 29:04.350]  It makes it easier for law enforcement officials because currently they have 50 ID cards that they must be familiar with.
[29:04.350 --> 29:09.710]  So if there's just, which are the 50 states, if there's, well, and plus different passports and so forth.
[29:10.010 --> 29:15.490]  If there is one national ID card, they know what it looks like and that's that.
[29:16.050 --> 29:16.510]  That's right.
[29:16.650 --> 29:17.190]  That makes it easier.
[29:17.190 --> 29:20.030]  You only got to fake one card now instead of faking one of the 50.
[29:20.250 --> 29:21.270]  You know, that's...
[29:21.270 --> 29:21.490]  Mm-hmm.
[29:22.790 --> 29:25.890]  Yeah, but if you do, if you do, you're going to be a domestic terrorist.
[29:26.670 --> 29:28.170]  That's probably what the difference is going to be.
[29:28.170 --> 29:28.470]  All right.
[29:28.530 --> 29:29.850]  Let's try to take some more phone calls.
[29:29.930 --> 29:33.610]  Again, I guess we got to keep the comments brief because his phone system is possessed by some kind of demon.
[29:34.630 --> 29:35.670]  It's possessed by Isaac.
[29:35.950 --> 29:36.150]  Yeah.
[29:36.390 --> 29:36.710]  Remember.
[29:37.730 --> 29:38.330]  Good evening.
[29:38.450 --> 29:38.790]  You're on the air.
[29:39.550 --> 29:39.790]  Hello?
[29:40.010 --> 29:40.490]  Yes, go ahead.
[29:41.830 --> 29:42.470]  Go ahead.
[29:42.690 --> 29:43.810]  I can barely hear.
[29:43.910 --> 29:46.590]  There's a whole lot of noise in the background.
[29:46.770 --> 29:50.270]  But nonetheless, I was wondering in regards to the same question, national ID card.
[29:50.530 --> 29:52.790]  And I think someone had mentioned it just now.
[29:53.350 --> 30:03.290]  What will happen, Ben, with all the people that they tend to usually eliminate during the census, if everyone has a national ID card, does that mean they're going to have to give an accurate count finally?
[30:04.170 --> 30:04.450]  Maybe.
[30:05.050 --> 30:05.290]  Maybe.
[30:05.550 --> 30:07.610]  Depends what kind of information is actually on that card.
[30:07.850 --> 30:08.250]  Exactly.
[30:08.730 --> 30:12.930]  But I'm also disappointed that Isaac has left.
[30:13.630 --> 30:19.930]  Sometimes I've found his viewpoints a little off, but I think he really did contribute a lot to the show.
[30:19.930 --> 30:25.670]  And I hope whatever endeavor he engages in for the future works out for him in that sense and way.
[30:25.950 --> 30:26.630]  Thank you, guys.
[30:26.830 --> 30:27.250]  Thank you.
[30:27.350 --> 30:30.790]  And that's my feelings as well.
[30:30.850 --> 30:35.150]  I mean, we differed on so much over the years.
[30:36.590 --> 30:37.790]  Almost everything, in fact.
[30:38.530 --> 30:47.710]  And the point is, a radio station like WBAI is a place where you can do that, where you can have differing opinions, and they err.
[30:47.710 --> 30:49.410]  They differing opinions, err.
[30:49.530 --> 30:52.190]  Unlike what we are seeing in mass media today.
[30:52.550 --> 30:56.210]  I saw an amazing piece on CBC last night.
[30:56.950 --> 30:59.830]  And anyone who has the capability of doing this should do this.
[30:59.950 --> 31:02.630]  They should figure out a way to get Canadian broadcasting.
[31:03.970 --> 31:10.210]  If you have satellite television, Direct TV, Dish Network, you get a channel called News World International.
[31:10.410 --> 31:17.410]  And they have a CBC program once a night called The National, which is an incredible news program that we don't see the likes of in this country.
[31:17.410 --> 31:23.690]  They had a piece, about 20 minutes long, about dissent in the United States.
[31:23.910 --> 31:35.010]  And how dissent in the United States is something that is being ignored and demonized as anti-American, people who are simply expressing themselves.
[31:35.570 --> 31:47.990]  And I find it incredibly sad and ironic that in this country where we profess to be champions of freedom of speech, we don't have... I don't know what it is.
[31:48.050 --> 31:48.930]  We don't have the courage.
[31:50.050 --> 31:55.670]  We don't have the responsibility to show what people are saying of all sides.
[31:55.670 --> 32:02.290]  Not just one side, not just the emotional reaction, but let's consider this as a free society and talk about it.
[32:02.370 --> 32:15.990]  And I, you know, I disagreed with a lot of what Isaac said in his statement, but the thing I have to say that I took offense to the most is the categorization of the radio station, of people on the radio station as being anti-American.
[32:16.350 --> 32:21.090]  And I think that's something that none of us have the right to do that.
[32:21.090 --> 32:26.050]  None of us have the right to say, my view is pro-American, your view is anti-American.
[32:26.530 --> 32:30.210]  That's... if I was after 10 o'clock, I could say another word, but it's nonsense.
[32:30.650 --> 32:31.770]  It really is.
[32:34.050 --> 32:37.430]  We have differing opinions on all kinds of things.
[32:37.650 --> 32:47.130]  And to force people into one particular mode and say that is pro-American, everything else is anti-American, it's just completely wrong.
[32:47.130 --> 32:54.690]  I have felt in this city a kinship to so many people over the past month and however many days it's been.
[32:55.710 --> 33:00.650]  And that's something that comes from a horrible tragedy that has struck all of us.
[33:02.110 --> 33:07.510]  That's got nothing to do with what we do in response, how we respond.
[33:07.610 --> 33:11.310]  We have all kinds of differing opinions as to what the best way of doing this is.
[33:11.310 --> 33:21.190]  We have differing opinions as to what led to the events of September 11th, as to where the ingredients were brought together to make this happen.
[33:21.650 --> 33:30.530]  All of that is irrelevant to what happened, and that is what has brought people together, and that is what has gotten us to share our grief.
[33:30.890 --> 33:35.310]  And I think that's something that is very important.
[33:36.050 --> 33:37.890]  It's very important to hold on to that.
[33:38.050 --> 33:49.830]  You know, to hold on to that kind of kinship that has come out of that particular event, and not to attach to it any condition saying that you're either with us or against us, as one leader has said.
[33:50.390 --> 33:52.450]  I think that's childish.
[33:52.510 --> 33:53.930]  It's not fair.
[33:54.410 --> 33:55.370]  It's not right.
[33:55.610 --> 34:01.710]  And in this particular place, this particular radio station, I've heard some of the most intelligent dialogue anywhere.
[34:01.710 --> 34:12.570]  And I know that, you know, there are many people who are not here right now, who should be here, sharing their dialogue, and I hope one day they are here to do just that, because that's what this place is.
[34:12.870 --> 34:14.390]  It's a clearinghouse of information.
[34:14.390 --> 34:15.110]  It's a family.
[34:15.110 --> 34:22.290]  It's a place where all kinds of ideas naturally come together, where people turn to hear differing opinions.
[34:23.570 --> 34:25.410]  We can't let that change.
[34:25.410 --> 34:31.330]  We can't say, oh, we're afraid to broadcast this information because it will be labeled in a certain way.
[34:31.330 --> 34:35.090]  Well, the people who do the labeling are the ones who are wrong.
[34:35.970 --> 34:39.070]  And you have to open up your mind and listen to other people.
[34:39.250 --> 34:50.650]  And that's what I've tried to do over the last four years, even though, you know, virtually every aspect of conversation that Isaac and I had was a differing of opinion of one sort or another.
[34:50.650 --> 35:03.890]  I felt it was fair to the audience and to the listeners and to me and to him to exchange these ideas and not to shut one side out or another side out.
[35:04.350 --> 35:09.110]  You know, if you can't defend your position, then you don't really have much of a position to start with.
[35:09.790 --> 35:17.810]  And I think the one thing we need to do is never label people and never assume what someone's allegiance is because of the things that they say.
[35:19.570 --> 35:24.650]  And, I mean, I consider the people at this radio station to be more pro-American than almost anybody I know.
[35:24.650 --> 35:29.530]  It's just maybe your definition of America is a little bit different than what my definition of America is.
[35:29.970 --> 35:35.730]  You know, I think Isaac was a great counterpoint, and good radio is about differing opinions.
[35:35.910 --> 35:39.210]  Shows that have two people that always agree are pretty boring.
[35:39.430 --> 35:51.410]  If you have counterpoints and different ideas brought to the table, and Isaac was great at that, at playing devil's advocate and bringing other ideas and issues to the table, it makes for good educational radio.
[35:52.990 --> 35:59.550]  Where I disagreed with them is WBAI, I think, is a forum for discussion.
[35:59.790 --> 36:06.670]  And there are going to be things on here that you think are complete crankpots, things that you don't agree with.
[36:06.710 --> 36:10.270]  But they're alternate ideas, alternate viewpoints.
[36:10.590 --> 36:21.370]  And just as we needed Isaac on this show to be that alternate counterpoint, we need that on this radio station.
[36:21.550 --> 36:25.270]  It can't be the 24-hour propaganda channel where it's just one idea shoved down your throat.
[36:25.610 --> 36:33.210]  The second thing, and I will agree with him that this show isn't as much about technology and hacking as it could be.
[36:33.210 --> 36:49.910]  However, Bernie S., who I've become good friends with ever since the second Hope conference, Beyond Hope, would much rather be talking about radios and hacking and phones and all sorts of really fun stuff.
[36:49.910 --> 37:04.790]  But when a Secret Service agent stormed into his friend's house where he was and pointed guns at him and took him off and he spent a year in prison, suddenly your perception and the things that you consider important changes.
[37:04.970 --> 37:08.330]  Yeah, you'd really like to be dealing with some of that geeky stuff, but there's some bigger issues at hand.
[37:08.330 --> 37:25.270]  And I think Emanuel, who has been hit with lawsuits for everything from owning the wrong piece of software to registering the wrong domain name, these are issues that have to be brought up because if Emanuel gets hit with it, if Bernie gets hit with it,
[37:25.490 --> 37:30.250]  then hundreds if not thousands of people nationwide are going to be hit with it.
[37:30.310 --> 37:32.150]  And those are things that need to be brought to the table.
[37:32.330 --> 37:41.850]  I'd much rather be talking about shortwave all the time and some cool phone tricks that we found out, but there's some spooky stuff going on politically and I think we have to talk about that.
[37:41.910 --> 37:45.310]  And that stuff is not going to not be there if we don't talk about it.
[37:47.150 --> 37:50.610]  And we are the targets many, many times because we're out there in the open.
[37:50.810 --> 38:01.190]  So it's more or less an obligation of us to focus on that because, yeah, it's fun to play with technology and we intend to do that quite a bit and share that information as much as we possibly can.
[38:03.430 --> 38:10.830]  But that's going to be kind of irrelevant if it all becomes illegal or if people are locked away for having the wrong technology.
[38:12.730 --> 38:30.330]  It's certainly turned into more of a social type of a thing where we have to keep an eye on what laws are being passed and what's happening to people who have things like what Bernie had or intrude in the wrong areas like Kevin Mitnick did.
[38:31.830 --> 38:34.530]  You have to pay attention to this or you'll become a victim of it.
[38:34.590 --> 38:44.210]  And I would hope that our radio show has done that over the years, educated people as to what the trends are, not just the technological trends.
[38:44.210 --> 38:50.030]  I mean, we do have technological programs on this radio station that deal more with just the technological issues such as the personal computer show on Wednesdays.
[38:50.730 --> 38:51.730]  And we're not that.
[38:51.910 --> 38:56.470]  We've always focused on what's going on society-wise as well.
[38:56.590 --> 38:59.650]  And I think 2600 has done that in addition.
[39:00.910 --> 39:11.850]  We focus on the social aspects and the implications of the technology that we are talking about and that we would like to talk about all the time if we had that ability, if we had that right.
[39:11.850 --> 39:12.930]  Unfortunately, we don't.
[39:13.010 --> 39:16.230]  And we can't make the evil go away by simply ignoring it.
[39:16.290 --> 39:17.230]  We have to confront that.
[39:19.410 --> 39:20.090]  Bernie, are you there?
[39:21.150 --> 39:22.870]  Turn the radio music down.
[39:23.310 --> 39:24.110]  What music?
[39:25.110 --> 39:27.670]  I'm hearing a clockwork orange, very loud.
[39:28.150 --> 39:28.590]  Oh, really?
[39:28.790 --> 39:29.250]  Okay.
[39:29.830 --> 39:30.170]  Ah!
[39:30.930 --> 39:31.710]  That's interesting.
[39:31.890 --> 39:33.750]  Okay, apparently this CD player...
[39:33.750 --> 39:34.570]  It's still loud.
[39:34.690 --> 39:35.290]  Hold on, hold on.
[39:35.350 --> 39:35.950]  I'm reaching over.
[39:36.550 --> 39:38.290]  All I hear is a clockwork orange.
[39:38.410 --> 39:39.170]  There, I stopped it.
[39:39.290 --> 39:40.450]  Bernie, are you having a flashback?
[39:40.450 --> 39:41.910]  I've been listening to that for the half hour.
[39:41.930 --> 39:44.810]  Okay, well no, you've helped us determine what the problem was.
[39:44.990 --> 39:55.850]  Apparently this CD player that I had to use because the other CD player broke, apparently that's patched into the phone in such a way that it doesn't show up on the board here, it's patched into the phone system.
[39:55.950 --> 39:56.590]  So it's not demons.
[39:56.990 --> 39:57.790]  Yeah, it's not demons.
[39:57.910 --> 39:58.410]  It's a CD player.
[39:58.490 --> 40:00.350]  But I turned it off, so you should not hear that noise anymore.
[40:00.490 --> 40:02.610]  But at least that solved that technical problem.
[40:02.670 --> 40:03.650]  We can take some more phone calls.
[40:03.670 --> 40:04.790]  Here's another technical problem.
[40:04.910 --> 40:05.310]  We're broke.
[40:06.750 --> 40:07.050]  2975?
[40:07.110 --> 40:07.190]  2975?
[40:07.510 --> 40:08.130]  That's pretty good.
[40:08.230 --> 40:08.910]  But we need...
[40:08.910 --> 40:15.130]  We've only got 20 minutes left to show BAI that this is a good show about hacking and it should stay on the air.
[40:15.210 --> 40:16.210]  But we're not showing BAI.
[40:16.330 --> 40:17.490]  We're showing the world.
[40:17.670 --> 40:17.990]  Oh, yeah.
[40:18.010 --> 40:18.850]  We are BAI.
[40:18.990 --> 40:20.970]  So, you know, we're here to...
[40:20.970 --> 40:21.330]  Well, BAI knows.
[40:21.890 --> 40:26.730]  Yeah, but at the end of the day, when they look at the thing and it says off the hook didn't come through...
[40:26.730 --> 40:27.150]  Well, yeah.
[40:27.210 --> 40:28.290]  When there are negative numbers...
[40:28.290 --> 40:29.690]  There's going to be a show about donuts or something.
[40:29.690 --> 40:30.190]  There are exceptions raised.
[40:30.370 --> 40:33.470]  But, you know, we definitely want more phone calls to come in.
[40:33.570 --> 40:35.770]  So, we have several pledge levels.
[40:36.050 --> 40:37.830]  And again, this is, I believe, the only time...
[40:37.830 --> 40:38.890]  We haven't gotten this verified yet.
[40:38.950 --> 40:41.650]  Maybe we can get this verified in the next 20 minutes, whether we're on next week or not.
[40:41.750 --> 40:42.410]  But I don't think we are.
[40:43.610 --> 40:46.470]  This is our only appearance during the fall fundraiser.
[40:47.050 --> 40:55.690]  For a $75 pledge, you can get a terrific book on shortwave that will give you everything you need to know, as well as what stations are on the air, what frequencies, and what languages, at what times.
[40:56.430 --> 40:57.790]  That's for a $75 pledge.
[40:57.790 --> 41:04.110]  For $125, you get that, plus the brand new 2600 T-shirt, which has not yet been released, and nobody has it yet.
[41:04.430 --> 41:08.530]  And you'll get that before anybody else does, except for the other people that pledge along with you.
[41:09.290 --> 41:11.990]  And, of course, you can pledge any amount whatsoever.
[41:12.290 --> 41:15.590]  Just give a call, 212-968-0500.
[41:15.630 --> 41:19.010]  It's extremely important, because that's what keeps this place going.
[41:19.070 --> 41:20.250]  We do not have commercials.
[41:20.710 --> 41:21.450]  Remember that.
[41:21.550 --> 41:22.390]  We don't have commercials.
[41:22.550 --> 41:26.230]  Other radio stations constantly barrage you with commercials.
[41:26.230 --> 41:31.450]  And, because they barrage you with commercials, it means you can't say certain things.
[41:31.930 --> 41:33.330]  I can say Microsoft sucks.
[41:33.870 --> 41:35.290]  I can say that on the air.
[41:35.830 --> 41:38.130]  I can say any corporation I like sucks.
[41:38.130 --> 41:38.790]  I really can.
[41:38.930 --> 41:39.970]  You could say Oracle sucks.
[41:40.130 --> 41:40.950]  I can say that.
[41:41.130 --> 41:42.110]  I can say that.
[41:42.510 --> 41:44.890]  And, you know, I can speak out against certain things.
[41:44.890 --> 41:47.350]  And, yeah, it may offend some people.
[41:47.790 --> 41:50.930]  I don't think we'd be doing the right thing if it didn't offend some people.
[41:51.070 --> 41:55.330]  That's not the purpose of us saying it, but, you know, speech is offensive.
[41:55.370 --> 41:56.550]  There's no question about it.
[41:56.610 --> 41:57.470]  It makes people think.
[41:57.570 --> 41:58.490]  It makes people react.
[41:59.010 --> 42:00.670]  But it has to be spoken.
[42:00.670 --> 42:01.470]  You have to talk.
[42:01.530 --> 42:02.990]  You can't ignore things.
[42:02.990 --> 42:04.930]  You can't ignore the unpleasantries of life.
[42:06.290 --> 42:11.290]  Turn around on the FM dial and see how many stations are ignoring the unpleasantries of life.
[42:11.410 --> 42:12.050]  They play music.
[42:12.230 --> 42:15.970]  They give you the same news every other station gives you because they're all owned by the same people.
[42:16.090 --> 42:16.670]  We're different.
[42:16.930 --> 42:22.850]  We're the only radio station on this FM dial here in New York City that is not controlled in that particular way.
[42:22.850 --> 42:28.630]  And I know that a lot of people are saying that, oh, yeah, there's all kinds of evil forces that are controlling BAI and Pacifica and all that.
[42:29.470 --> 42:31.970]  Listen, there are there are bad things going on.
[42:32.090 --> 42:33.030]  I'm the first to admit it.
[42:33.650 --> 42:37.250]  But if the place isn't here, we can't fix it.
[42:37.430 --> 42:37.790]  Right.
[42:37.950 --> 42:50.850]  So right now, what I'm asking is if people are happy with what we've been doing on this particular radio show off the hook, call, pledge, show your support, invest in the radio station and become a voice so that you can stand there and say that you are part of this.
[42:50.850 --> 42:52.490]  And this is what you want.
[42:52.590 --> 42:53.830]  This is what you want to hear.
[42:54.050 --> 42:54.930]  It matters.
[42:55.670 --> 43:01.170]  Everybody who calls in is the equivalent of a corporate sponsor, except you're a human being.
[43:01.490 --> 43:02.350]  Imagine the power.
[43:02.490 --> 43:16.170]  Imagine the power of actually contributing to a place and knowing that you're a part of it and you will always be welcome to our particular show here at Off the Hook and I assume to many others at this radio station.
[43:16.170 --> 43:18.030]  That's that's what community radio is all about.
[43:18.170 --> 43:19.790]  That's what we have to be about.
[43:20.350 --> 43:22.850]  It won't survive any other way without the community.
[43:24.470 --> 43:32.650]  And I talk to people who are involved in all kinds of struggles and who want to bring all kinds of changes.
[43:32.650 --> 43:38.510]  And I understand some of the frustration that's going on with what's been happening here.
[43:39.310 --> 43:44.730]  And what's been happening here kind of reflects what's happening throughout radio and the whole rest of the world.
[43:45.370 --> 43:51.250]  But the way to fight it, the way to fix it, is to be a part of it, not to walk away from it.
[43:51.430 --> 43:52.970]  A lot of people are walking away.
[43:53.710 --> 43:55.650]  And when you walk away, you're gone, you know.
[43:55.910 --> 43:58.350]  You will be replaced by some other listener, I'm sure.
[43:58.490 --> 44:03.710]  Somebody else will come along and say, hey, you know, I like what you do, but I'd rather you play country music underneath you while you talk.
[44:04.070 --> 44:08.570]  And then we'll suddenly get more people that decide to do things in a different way.
[44:08.610 --> 44:10.370]  And that's the direction that we will steer.
[44:10.790 --> 44:16.870]  If you like the radio station the way that you've been hearing over the last two and a half hours, then call up and pledge and say that.
[44:16.870 --> 44:22.890]  And then we'll have some strength to keep going and keep the place moving in a particular direction.
[44:23.550 --> 44:27.790]  It's all about freedom of speech and freedom of broadcasting.
[44:28.150 --> 44:31.050]  And as long as we have listener supporters, we can continue to do that.
[44:31.110 --> 44:38.830]  We lose those listener supporters, okay, yeah, the station will go down the drain and probably be bought out by somebody and taken over.
[44:39.090 --> 44:39.190]  Clear channel.
[44:39.190 --> 44:40.250]  Clear channel, they buy everything.
[44:40.470 --> 44:42.430]  Or worse, this is my nightmare.
[44:43.810 --> 44:44.270]  NPR.
[44:44.670 --> 44:47.290]  Well, NPR already has enough radio stations, I think.
[44:47.410 --> 44:53.950]  But it'll suddenly become too much to have a radio station like this in the middle of the FM commercial ban.
[44:54.050 --> 45:01.150]  And we'll have to get something down below 92 that's like, you know, 3,000 watts instead that only reaches Manhattan Island and part of Staten Island.
[45:01.770 --> 45:06.970]  And, you know, it won't technically be selling the license, but it'll be, you know, downgrading.
[45:07.110 --> 45:09.410]  And the only reason for that is because there's no support.
[45:09.550 --> 45:12.370]  And if there's no support, well, then we have to downgrade.
[45:12.370 --> 45:13.610]  That's a bad thing.
[45:13.790 --> 45:14.930]  That's a very bad thing.
[45:15.030 --> 45:19.150]  And you can say, yeah, you know, the station is not exactly as I want it right now.
[45:19.250 --> 45:20.650]  And until it is, I'm not going to support it.
[45:20.710 --> 45:26.970]  That's... that argument doesn't work because by the time it gets to that, it'll never get to that point.
[45:27.530 --> 45:28.510]  That's what I'm trying to say.
[45:28.870 --> 45:34.150]  It'll evaporate before you can build it to that point because the support won't be there.
[45:34.270 --> 45:35.430]  You have to make change within.
[45:36.290 --> 45:37.190]  Yeah, it's hard.
[45:37.330 --> 45:37.870]  It's not easy.
[45:38.050 --> 45:47.690]  You know, it's... and I don't think people realize how frustrating it is to come in here and ask for money when there are all these, you know, concerns and frustrations being expressed by many people.
[45:47.730 --> 45:55.990]  But the one thing I do know is that as long as we have the station, we have something to fight about and something to fight for and something to improve.
[45:57.070 --> 45:59.450]  And there are a lot of people out there that have opinions.
[45:59.890 --> 46:03.790]  We want to open it up to those people so that they can speak, they can have a voice.
[46:05.510 --> 46:06.990]  212-968-0500.
[46:07.290 --> 46:08.250]  Show your support.
[46:08.510 --> 46:09.290]  Keep the place going.
[46:09.310 --> 46:10.430]  Even if it's five bucks.
[46:11.670 --> 46:13.390]  We prefer 50, but five bucks.
[46:13.510 --> 46:14.150]  We prefer a thousand.
[46:14.350 --> 46:15.950]  Did anybody come through at the friend level?
[46:16.430 --> 46:16.990]  A friend level?
[46:17.210 --> 46:18.690]  How do you become a good friend of a man?
[46:18.890 --> 46:19.850]  By pledging a thousand dollars.
[46:20.050 --> 46:23.910]  We should have a thing where you can have dinner with Emmanuel Goldstein if you contribute a thousand dollars.
[46:24.150 --> 46:24.770]  Well, there's an idea.
[46:25.050 --> 46:25.970]  What do you think about that?
[46:26.410 --> 46:27.630]  Maybe you do like a little...
[46:27.630 --> 46:28.090]  Who buys?
[46:28.310 --> 46:28.570]  Huh?
[46:29.450 --> 46:29.890]  Do I have to buy?
[46:30.010 --> 46:30.290]  Yes.
[46:30.410 --> 46:31.490]  Oh, for God's sake.
[46:31.710 --> 46:34.290]  Dude, if somebody gives a thousand dollars, they have dinner with you.
[46:34.390 --> 46:35.390]  They have a little candlelight.
[46:35.530 --> 46:37.610]  A thousand seventy-five with the dinner included there.
[46:38.590 --> 46:38.930]  All right.
[46:39.110 --> 46:39.310]  All right.
[46:39.470 --> 46:41.310]  212-968-0500.
[46:42.550 --> 46:44.470]  Let's get some more phone calls coming in.
[46:45.910 --> 46:47.610]  Bernie, any last words from you?
[46:48.290 --> 46:54.870]  Well, I would like to actually call that number you announced and officially get my pledge in before the end of the show.
[46:55.090 --> 46:55.330]  Mm-hmm.
[46:55.950 --> 46:57.090]  Glenn, I suggest you do that.
[46:57.270 --> 46:57.510]  Right.
[46:58.110 --> 47:01.610]  You need to add $75 to your existing total.
[47:01.810 --> 47:01.930]  Uh-huh.
[47:01.930 --> 47:03.390]  Well, it's at $29.75 now.
[47:04.250 --> 47:04.490]  Okay.
[47:04.550 --> 47:05.270]  So that would be...
[47:05.270 --> 47:06.330]  Well, that would bring us over $3,000.
[47:06.450 --> 47:07.030]  $3,050.
[47:07.390 --> 47:07.510]  All right.
[47:07.510 --> 47:11.310]  We have phones ringing, and we have volunteers down there.
[47:11.350 --> 47:12.410]  In fact, I think Mike's one of them.
[47:12.530 --> 47:18.290]  Either that or Mike left, but I think he went down to the tally room to take phone calls, which is great.
[47:18.290 --> 47:19.770]  Well, why don't I say tally-ho?
[47:19.970 --> 47:20.510]  Tally-ho.
[47:20.630 --> 47:21.870]  And thanks so much for your support, Bernie.
[47:22.210 --> 47:27.930]  It's a true testament that after all you've been through that you would donate money to the radio station as well.
[47:28.450 --> 47:29.550]  And I think that's...
[47:29.550 --> 47:35.010]  If anything, that's the best reason I can think of is to support this station.
[47:35.350 --> 47:35.750]  Yeah.
[47:35.750 --> 47:43.070]  That's just what this station did for me and this show did for me, but for what it's done for a lot of other people and opened people's eyes as to what's going on in the world.
[47:43.190 --> 47:43.570]  That's right.
[47:43.750 --> 47:56.750]  And let's say we had the controversy that's surrounding this place five years ago, and somebody would say, hey, I'm not going to support the radio station because it's not what I want it to be during the time that you were in prison.
[47:57.110 --> 48:01.410]  And let's say that that was a key amount of money that we weren't able to raise.
[48:01.510 --> 48:03.970]  We weren't able to fix the phone system because of that.
[48:03.970 --> 48:05.970]  And we weren't able to take your phone calls from prison.
[48:06.230 --> 48:09.590]  See, the point is, we're still able to do things like this.
[48:09.710 --> 48:11.330]  We're still able to talk about these issues.
[48:11.530 --> 48:12.710]  That has not gone away.
[48:13.030 --> 48:19.370]  So until something like that does go away, it makes sense to support the show that brings it to you.
[48:20.090 --> 48:24.870]  I've been doing this for almost three hours now, so if that didn't make any sense, try and put it together so it does.
[48:25.030 --> 48:30.090]  But the point is that if you're listening and you like what you hear, support that.
[48:30.270 --> 48:32.670]  If you're listening and you don't like what you hear, don't support that.
[48:32.670 --> 48:34.990]  So if you don't like what I'm saying, don't support it.
[48:35.110 --> 48:37.350]  If you do like what I'm saying, please support it.
[48:38.150 --> 48:39.390]  So what are you talking about?
[48:39.810 --> 48:41.090]  I tried to make sense.
[48:41.230 --> 48:41.970]  I really tried there.
[48:42.770 --> 48:44.230]  212-968-0500.
[48:44.950 --> 48:47.910]  Three hours is just too long to be begging for money.
[48:48.030 --> 48:48.590]  It really is.
[48:48.790 --> 48:51.330]  Well, it stinks that we have to beg for money.
[48:51.450 --> 48:53.250]  It would be very easy to get a sales team.
[48:53.470 --> 48:57.330]  I would beg for money for 12 hours straight rather than play a single commercial.
[48:57.450 --> 48:57.850]  How about that?
[48:57.970 --> 48:58.170]  Really?
[48:58.350 --> 48:59.550]  Yeah, absolutely.
[49:00.470 --> 49:01.830]  What are you looking at me like that for?
[49:02.230 --> 49:03.870]  That's a manual thought.
[49:03.970 --> 49:05.610]  See, here's my idea.
[49:05.710 --> 49:06.630]  Bernie, go make your pledge.
[49:06.910 --> 49:07.950]  I'm going to go make my pledge.
[49:08.030 --> 49:08.630]  We'll talk to you soon.
[49:08.750 --> 49:12.130]  I'm going to listen to the rest of the show, then I'm going to turn on my shortwave radio and listen to some real news.
[49:12.970 --> 49:17.070]  Wow, you're such a rebel, but okay, go for it.
[49:17.230 --> 49:18.170]  Bernie has a girlfriend.
[49:18.910 --> 49:19.550]  Yeah, well...
[49:19.550 --> 49:20.730]  I was amazed by that.
[49:22.430 --> 49:24.450]  Yeah, well, I guess shortwave will do that, right?
[49:25.170 --> 49:26.310]  He's got lots of gadgets.
[49:26.410 --> 49:27.270]  Pledge for the shortwave.
[49:27.490 --> 49:29.450]  I'll tell you, it does wonders for your libido.
[49:29.610 --> 49:31.330]  Oh, you're still there, Bernie.
[49:31.430 --> 49:31.670]  I'm sorry.
[49:31.670 --> 49:33.630]  I thought you were off the radar.
[49:33.930 --> 49:37.190]  I did hang up on it, but you know, the VIP button's pushed, so it didn't go away.
[49:37.310 --> 49:38.590]  But you're going away this time, Bernie.
[49:39.270 --> 49:40.510]  So I'll talk to you later.
[49:40.790 --> 49:42.990]  And people, get your pledge in before the end of the show.
[49:43.090 --> 49:46.050]  Thanks very much for supporting Off The Hook and WBAI.
[49:46.310 --> 49:47.010]  Okay, good night.
[49:48.150 --> 49:56.570]  212-968-0500 is the phone number to pledge support for the radio station and for this radio show.
[49:56.950 --> 49:59.390]  Shall we take a couple more phone calls on the radio station?
[49:59.390 --> 50:00.590]  Yes, let's talk about Isaac.
[50:01.030 --> 50:01.290]  All right.
[50:01.490 --> 50:01.790]  Good evening.
[50:01.890 --> 50:02.270]  You're on the air.
[50:04.570 --> 50:04.850]  Okay.
[50:04.990 --> 50:06.350]  The thing is, when I say good evening, you're on the air.
[50:06.450 --> 50:07.070]  You have to speak.
[50:07.190 --> 50:08.050]  That's the condition.
[50:08.150 --> 50:08.430]  Good evening.
[50:08.530 --> 50:08.990]  You're on the air.
[50:10.450 --> 50:10.730]  Hello?
[50:10.950 --> 50:11.490]  Yes, go ahead.
[50:11.490 --> 50:11.510]  Go ahead.
[50:11.950 --> 50:14.710]  I was very interested in what Isaac said.
[50:14.710 --> 50:18.090]  And my perspective is somewhat in between his and yours in this way.
[50:18.350 --> 50:18.530]  Mm-hmm.
[50:19.010 --> 50:21.470]  Last year when Mr. Diallo...
[50:21.470 --> 50:22.610]  First of all, I love your show.
[50:23.090 --> 50:39.470]  Last year when Mr. Diallo was tragically shot, I was really appalled by some of the commentators on WBAI who seemed to be encouraging people to hate each other, certainly were encouraging people to violently demonstrate against a jury verdict.
[50:39.710 --> 50:57.590]  And so, I was thinking to my... I wrote a letter to Chris Wendt because I admire his show and I said, gee, how can I remain a member of a radio program which is... a station which is having such hateful speech and encouraging people to disrespect each other so much?
[50:57.590 --> 51:08.570]  He sent me back an email saying, if you care about WBAI and you don't like hateful speech, remain a member, be a member, and try to express yourself.
[51:08.770 --> 51:12.410]  So, as a matter of fact, I increased my membership and now I'm expressing myself.
[51:12.550 --> 51:13.030]  There you go.
[51:13.550 --> 51:16.490]  I think you said it better than I was trying to say for the last 20 minutes.
[51:16.730 --> 51:16.890]  No.
[51:17.850 --> 51:19.150]  But thanks for saying it.
[51:19.290 --> 51:20.890]  Nice talking to you and love the show.
[51:21.110 --> 51:21.330]  Thanks.
[51:21.430 --> 51:21.730]  Take care.
[51:22.670 --> 51:23.470]  Yeah, that's it.
[51:23.590 --> 51:26.450]  I mean, you know, we don't all have to agree and we never will all agree.
[51:27.090 --> 51:28.430]  That's what it's all about.
[51:29.810 --> 51:35.270]  And I guess it's a microcosm, you know, here at the radio station and also out there in the world.
[51:35.670 --> 51:41.010]  You know, people who disagree are looked upon as bad and that should not be.
[51:41.230 --> 51:42.730]  You know, you need that dialogue.
[51:42.950 --> 51:44.410]  That's how you reach intelligent decisions.
[51:45.170 --> 51:45.730]  Good evening.
[51:45.850 --> 51:46.090]  You're on.
[51:47.370 --> 51:48.890]  People just give up too easily.
[51:49.010 --> 51:49.250]  Good evening.
[51:49.330 --> 51:49.610]  You're on.
[51:50.910 --> 51:51.430]  Oh, yes.
[51:51.450 --> 51:55.270]  I'm a member and I just, I feel that Eutrice is fatuous.
[51:56.730 --> 51:57.550]  Well, okay.
[51:58.230 --> 52:03.750]  Like I said many, many times, we don't tolerate personal attacks on anyone here.
[52:04.130 --> 52:05.590]  I mean, it's a simple thing.
[52:05.790 --> 52:07.470]  I really wish people would respect that.
[52:07.510 --> 52:08.430]  I don't even know what that means.
[52:09.170 --> 52:09.750]  Good evening.
[52:09.770 --> 52:10.230]  You're on the air.
[52:11.150 --> 52:11.710]  Oh, hi.
[52:11.910 --> 52:15.250]  Did I hear you say that you've been on since seven o'clock tonight?
[52:15.250 --> 52:16.830]  Ah, I think you heard me say that.
[52:16.870 --> 52:17.010]  Yeah.
[52:17.090 --> 52:19.270]  And I think I was on since seven tonight.
[52:20.230 --> 52:23.010]  I'm just wondering what happened to Mike Levine.
[52:23.970 --> 52:25.310]  Ah, that's...
[52:25.310 --> 52:28.190]  Well, he was on one week after the attacks.
[52:28.430 --> 52:30.130]  Then two weeks, he was in reruns.
[52:30.430 --> 52:31.830]  His website is down.
[52:32.430 --> 52:33.650]  And I'm just...
[52:33.650 --> 52:34.630]  And I haven't heard anything.
[52:34.630 --> 52:42.130]  Well, I'm not one to come forth with any kind of conspiracy, but I would suspect that he's going to be back here next week live, I think.
[52:42.510 --> 52:44.870]  I'd like some verification of this.
[52:44.990 --> 52:50.730]  If anybody in Talley or anyone else knows what the situation is next week, I'd certainly like to know about it myself.
[52:50.730 --> 52:59.790]  But I assure you, Mike is fine, and you will be hearing his jovial voice coming forth with all kinds of new conspiracies that are happening out there.
[53:01.090 --> 53:01.450]  Okay.
[53:02.430 --> 53:03.810]  We have time for about one or two more.
[53:03.870 --> 53:04.570]  Good evening, you're on the air.
[53:05.290 --> 53:07.990]  Hi, I called earlier and there was music over my voice.
[53:08.110 --> 53:15.170]  I just wanted if my point got true about Isaac being inconsistent in his position about the technology as opposed to the policy of the government.
[53:15.290 --> 53:16.830]  I heard you make that point before.
[53:16.990 --> 53:18.430]  Okay, I'll hang out and look out to someone else.
[53:18.570 --> 53:18.850]  Okay.
[53:19.470 --> 53:20.650]  Good evening, you're on the air.
[53:22.070 --> 53:22.430]  Hello?
[53:22.670 --> 53:23.050]  Yes, go ahead.
[53:23.270 --> 53:24.310]  Yeah, how you doing, Emmanuel?
[53:24.610 --> 53:24.850]  Okay.
[53:24.990 --> 53:26.450]  A long time listener.
[53:27.070 --> 53:33.110]  I was just wondering, is there any way of listening to that Canadian news on the net?
[53:33.330 --> 53:33.770]  Yes.
[53:33.870 --> 53:44.970]  In fact, if you go to cbc.ca, you will get a tremendous amount of not only news and information, but you'll actually be able to hear the local radio stations from cities all over Canada.
[53:44.970 --> 53:50.070]  Just today, I was listening to a radio station from McAllowet, which is in Nunavut.
[53:50.370 --> 53:54.710]  I was listening to the native speech up there.
[53:55.070 --> 53:57.910]  It brought back memories because I went up there back in the late 80s.
[53:58.050 --> 53:59.930]  That's cbc.a?
[53:59.930 --> 54:01.350]  That's c-a for Canada.
[54:01.610 --> 54:01.970]  C-a.
[54:02.050 --> 54:07.210]  And you'll get a whole listing of different cities that you can listen to.
[54:07.310 --> 54:12.890]  You can listen to Radio 1 from CBC, and on the hour they have news, and they have all kinds of other call-in programs and things like that.
[54:12.950 --> 54:16.330]  It's really, it's a lot of fun to listen to, and they've got some great programs there.
[54:16.770 --> 54:17.250]  All right.
[54:17.290 --> 54:19.010]  Let's take one more phone call.
[54:19.050 --> 54:19.290]  Good evening.
[54:19.390 --> 54:19.810]  You're on the air.
[54:20.670 --> 54:20.910]  Yes.
[54:21.070 --> 54:30.630]  I'd like to know, was Isaac a person of a military or intelligence background, or did his family come from a law enforcement background?
[54:31.250 --> 54:32.250]  Not that I know of.
[54:32.770 --> 54:34.010]  But you really don't know.
[54:35.050 --> 54:41.070]  I didn't really do the usual, like, you know, probe on the person when he came to the station, but no, I don't believe so.
[54:41.570 --> 54:42.010]  Okay.
[54:42.210 --> 54:59.550]  I won't take much time, but the point, or the question I'm asking, I don't know if you can even discuss this on the air, is, has it been a problem over the year of people coming to the station and perhaps befriending people who may have shows there, and eventually getting themselves on the air,
[54:59.710 --> 55:03.430]  and ultimately turning out to not be what they appeared to be at first?
[55:03.790 --> 55:04.230]  Aliens.
[55:04.450 --> 55:04.570]  Wow.
[55:05.550 --> 55:06.450]  You see, I...
[55:06.450 --> 55:07.310]  I don't mean aliens.
[55:07.310 --> 55:12.330]  I mean, people there for purposes other than what you might think they're there for.
[55:12.370 --> 55:30.670]  I don't see that as a problem because if you stand up for what it is you believe in, and you, you know, you actually have some intelligence as to what you're saying, then somebody coming forth with an opinion that's different than yours shouldn't be a challenge.
[55:30.810 --> 55:33.570]  It shouldn't be something that, you know, that you can't handle.
[55:34.010 --> 55:36.790]  I don't, I don't really think the background was an issue at all.
[55:37.610 --> 55:41.830]  Um, so anyway, that's, uh, that's pretty much all we have time for as far as...
[55:41.830 --> 55:47.130]  It's only three more minutes people can give to WBAI and show their support for off the hook.
[55:47.290 --> 55:48.090]  That's right, that's right.
[55:48.170 --> 55:51.650]  So we hope that you call 212-968-0500.
[55:52.090 --> 55:53.350]  We're up to 3,300 bucks.
[55:53.450 --> 55:53.930]  It's not bad.
[55:54.050 --> 55:54.510]  It's not bad.
[55:54.650 --> 55:56.050]  I mean, it's not a catastrophe.
[55:56.310 --> 55:57.030]  It's not a disaster.
[55:57.030 --> 55:59.150]  No, no, it's, uh, it's, it's, it's great.
[55:59.310 --> 56:00.730]  And we appreciate all the people that gave money.
[56:00.750 --> 56:04.010]  But I'm hoping that it gets better in the, uh, in the moments ahead.
[56:04.050 --> 56:05.470]  I'm telling you, dinner with a manual.
[56:05.730 --> 56:07.190]  The phones would ring off the hook.
[56:07.270 --> 56:08.430]  I have to talk to you after the show.
[56:08.530 --> 56:09.010]  I really do.
[56:09.250 --> 56:11.010]  These, uh, ideas of yours.
[56:11.710 --> 56:13.810]  Anyway, um, we'll be back again.
[56:13.950 --> 56:15.310]  I'm not sure exactly when we'll be back.
[56:15.630 --> 56:18.410]  Check the website, www.2600.com.
[56:18.650 --> 56:22.410]  We'll have details there as to when we come back and, uh, what we'll be doing.
[56:22.970 --> 56:23.750]  That kind of thing.
[56:24.410 --> 56:25.730]  Thanks to everybody who called in.
[56:25.730 --> 56:28.090]  Again, the pledge line, 212-968-0500.
[56:28.850 --> 56:31.570]  Let's get a, uh, a few last minute calls.
[56:32.710 --> 56:34.670]  For off the hook, this is Emmanuel.
[56:35.190 --> 56:35.610]  Good night.
[56:55.690 --> 57:00.510]  Gonna tell all you fascists, you may be surprised.
[57:00.790 --> 57:06.590]  People all over this world are getting organized by the loose.
[57:07.430 --> 57:11.050]  You fascists are by the loose.
[57:14.560 --> 57:19.220]  People out there, we call marching side by side.
[57:19.580 --> 57:23.160]  Marching across the fields with a million fascists.
[57:23.160 --> 57:25.120]  Are you fascists are by the loose?
[57:26.080 --> 57:29.880]  Are you fascists are by the loose?
[57:45.580 --> 57:47.760]  Are you fascists are by the loose?
[57:48.000 --> 57:50.280]  Are you fascists are by the loose?
[57:50.460 --> 57:52.720]  Are you fascists are by the loose?
[58:10.780 --> 58:11.640]  Are you
[59:00.600 --> 59:06.780]  fascists are by the loose?
[01:00:07.330 --> 01:00:14.330]  Coming up next is Nuff Said here on WBA-IFM 99.5 in New York City.
[01:00:40.990 --> 01:00:43.670]  I wanna be like that, I wanna be.
[01:00:43.970 --> 01:00:45.010]  I wanna go to kill,
[01:00:50.670 --> 01:00:54.510]  I wanna go to kill, I wanna go to kill.