[00:01.230 --> 00:07.170]  How the media is really failing you guys, failing their job as part of the state.
[00:07.690 --> 00:09.930]  And right now, our security...
[00:09.930 --> 00:13.930]  Their communications department for bigger interest than...
[00:13.930 --> 00:16.430]  Yeah, right now, most Americans...
[00:16.430 --> 00:18.650]  I hate to jump in here, folks, but your time's up.
[00:18.690 --> 00:19.530]  It's 8 o'clock.
[00:19.770 --> 00:20.770]  It's time for Off the Hook.
[00:26.040 --> 00:30.380]  The telephone keeps ringing, so I ripped it off the wall.
[00:31.340 --> 00:33.340]  I cut myself while shaving.
[00:33.840 --> 00:35.980]  Now I can't make a cough.
[00:36.620 --> 00:38.760]  We couldn't get much worse.
[00:39.440 --> 00:41.360]  But if they could, they would.
[00:41.620 --> 00:44.280]  Bum-diddly-bom, for the best, expect the worst.
[00:44.940 --> 00:46.840]  I hope that's understood.
[00:47.100 --> 00:47.940]  Bum-diddly-bom!
[01:22.500 --> 01:25.580]  This is WMONG, Mongoloid Radio.
[01:25.840 --> 01:28.000]  And I'm your host, Sugar Love.
[01:28.380 --> 01:31.820]  The request lines are open, and now we've got a special request from tonight.
[01:31.820 --> 01:32.540]  Okay, okay.
[01:32.700 --> 01:35.580]  I don't know where that came from, but this is off the hook.
[01:35.960 --> 01:40.120]  And sometimes we just throw on an instrumental really quickly when we just get into the studio.
[01:40.460 --> 01:47.480]  At the last moment, I don't know what's going on out there today, but it was extremely difficult getting into both the city and getting around the city.
[01:49.500 --> 01:52.260]  They had some sort of incident on the Lexington Avenue line.
[01:52.340 --> 01:58.200]  They won't tell anybody what it was, but everybody was packed in like sardines, and trains were going all different directions, and not where they're supposed to go.
[02:00.240 --> 02:07.640]  So, fortunately, I'm here on time, and we have the usual updates to bring you.
[02:07.700 --> 02:11.220]  The usual kind of depressing updates.
[02:11.960 --> 02:13.400]  Mike, anything depressing going on with you?
[02:14.200 --> 02:15.220]  Not depressing, no.
[02:15.400 --> 02:15.920]  Not depressing?
[02:16.100 --> 02:16.220]  No.
[02:16.400 --> 02:17.800]  I guess you haven't been watching the news, have you?
[02:18.180 --> 02:19.220]  No, that's probably why.
[02:19.300 --> 02:21.820]  Yeah, well, you should watch the news, because that's the only way you're going to find...
[02:21.820 --> 02:22.600]  Actually, no, you know what?
[02:22.600 --> 02:27.960]  That's not how you're going to find out what's going on, because the news really doesn't tell you very much these days.
[02:28.140 --> 02:33.120]  But if you listen to other forms of media, you might get a hint.
[02:33.660 --> 02:46.940]  Other forms of media being places like Pacifica, places like the Internet, places like foreign media, where you can hear all kinds of neat things, which really aren't so neat these days.
[02:47.680 --> 02:59.440]  And I'm referring, of course, to the continuing deterioration of human rights in this country, as far as things being taken away as a result of the terrorist action on September 11th.
[03:01.320 --> 03:04.820]  Here's just one other example, and we have quite a few.
[03:07.600 --> 03:10.780]  There's actually something you gave me, Mike, concerning librarians.
[03:11.120 --> 03:14.060]  And when librarians are under attack, we're all under attack.
[03:14.060 --> 03:17.800]  Well, some of these librarians are not standing up.
[03:17.920 --> 03:18.740]  Well, of course.
[03:18.860 --> 03:20.200]  You will find people in any organization.
[03:20.200 --> 03:26.940]  You will find people who kowtow and cave in and just, you know, do whatever the evil people say.
[03:27.100 --> 03:29.680]  You'll see that anyplace, librarians included.
[03:29.800 --> 03:30.780]  Nobody is immune from that.
[03:31.080 --> 03:36.100]  But the fact is that the very concept of libraries is being attacked now.
[03:36.400 --> 03:42.580]  And that's something that I think we have to be aware of and fight in whatever way we see fit.
[03:43.120 --> 03:47.260]  But the document seemed... this is from the Los Angeles Times.
[03:47.320 --> 03:48.840]  The document seemed innocuous enough.
[03:49.100 --> 03:54.340]  A survey of government data on reservoirs and dams that are on CD-ROM.
[03:55.080 --> 03:59.040]  Then, last month, there was a federal directive to U.S.
[03:59.140 --> 04:02.380]  libraries, which simply said, destroy the report.
[04:03.440 --> 04:09.220]  So, a Syracuse University Library Clerk broke the disk into pieces, saving a single shard to prove that the deed was done.
[04:09.340 --> 04:16.920]  Now, that person you could call a... well, that's a good word for somebody like that, who goes along with something because they're told to.
[04:18.460 --> 04:18.940]  Following orders.
[04:19.140 --> 04:19.500]  Collaborator.
[04:19.640 --> 04:19.800]  Okay.
[04:19.960 --> 04:20.560]  Following orders.
[04:20.680 --> 04:21.140]  Following orders.
[04:21.260 --> 04:22.100]  But that's not a noun.
[04:22.720 --> 04:25.040]  Collaborator, I think, is the best thing we can call this person.
[04:25.580 --> 04:26.740]  Well, yeah, but that sounds clumsy.
[04:27.280 --> 04:27.640]  Collaborator.
[04:27.640 --> 04:29.060]  This person's a collaborator.
[04:29.340 --> 04:32.820]  Syracuse University Library Clerk, who has no name, was a collaborator.
[04:33.000 --> 04:43.420]  The unusual order from the government printing office reflects one of the hidden casualties of the September 11 terrorist attacks, the public's shrinking access to information that many once took for granted.
[04:44.000 --> 04:48.320]  Do you want to find out whether there are any hazardous waste sites near the local daycare center?
[04:48.520 --> 04:51.060]  What safety controls are in place at nuclear power plants?
[04:51.180 --> 04:53.960]  Or how many people are incarcerated in terrorist-related probes?
[04:54.200 --> 04:56.140]  Well, you can't.
[04:57.640 --> 05:00.580]  It's become much harder to get such information from the federal government.
[05:00.760 --> 05:02.620]  A growing number of states and public libraries.
[05:04.200 --> 05:06.720]  And that's because of heightened concern about national security.
[05:08.300 --> 05:10.920]  In this case, it's trumping the public's right to know.
[05:11.120 --> 05:19.180]  At least 15 federal agencies have yanked potentially sensitive information off the Internet or removed websites altogether for fear that terrorists could exploit the government data.
[05:19.760 --> 05:26.820]  The excised material ranges from information on chemical reactors and risk management programs to airport data and mapping of oil pipelines.
[05:28.460 --> 05:30.580]  Several states have followed the federal government's lead.
[05:30.700 --> 05:33.860]  California, for example, has removed information on dams and aqueducts.
[05:34.520 --> 05:44.400]  Members of the public who want to use reading rooms at federal agencies, such as the Internal Revenue Service, must now make an appointment and be escorted by an employee to ensure that information is not misused.
[05:44.400 --> 05:46.420]  And I imagine to ensure that you're not Middle Eastern.
[05:47.580 --> 05:59.500]  The government printing office has begun ordering about 1,300 libraries nationwide that serve as federal depositories to destroy government records that federal agencies say could be too sensitive for public consumption.
[06:01.300 --> 06:07.400]  And federal agencies are imposing a stricter standard in reviewing hundreds of thousands of Freedom of Information Act requests.
[06:08.160 --> 06:11.740]  Of course, if there's no Freedom of Information, I guess they would have to reevaluate that.
[06:12.580 --> 06:17.060]  Officials no longer have to show that disclosure would cause substantial harm before rejecting a request.
[06:17.860 --> 06:22.840]  Watchdoor groups say they have already started to see rejections of requests that likely would have been granted before.
[06:25.700 --> 06:27.580]  Oh, double-sided printing.
[06:27.700 --> 06:27.980]  Very clever.
[06:28.540 --> 06:38.920]  The trend reverses a decades-long shift toward greater public access to information, even highly sensitive documents such as the Pentagon Papers or unconventional manifestos such as the Anarchist Cookbook.
[06:39.520 --> 06:41.480]  Well, don't tell me they're preventing you from seeing that.
[06:41.480 --> 06:42.920]  That's an independently published book.
[06:43.180 --> 06:45.700]  I don't see how they could, as a practical matter.
[06:45.780 --> 06:50.380]  Well, I think maybe we need books like that back, you know, so that people do know how to get information.
[06:51.240 --> 06:58.000]  I mean, this whole mentality that access to information is a bad thing, you can use anything in an evil way.
[06:58.060 --> 06:59.820]  And this is what we've been saying in the hacker world for years.
[07:00.900 --> 07:16.740]  You can use information in bad ways, you can use tactics on how to defeat security in all kinds of nefarious means, but you can also derive great good from them, and also there's a right of the public to know these things.
[07:17.180 --> 07:22.580]  And if you simply restrict everything, you know, you basically, you've defeated yourself.
[07:22.580 --> 07:23.460]  You don't need a terrorist.
[07:23.460 --> 07:27.060]  You've defeated the civilization, the society, all by yourselves.
[07:28.940 --> 07:30.820]  I mean, where's this going to go next?
[07:31.260 --> 07:36.140]  You know, they're pretty much laying the groundwork for strict control of any kind of information.
[07:36.140 --> 07:40.320]  Remember the controversy a few years ago about bomb-making information on the Internet?
[07:40.760 --> 07:44.580]  I imagine they'll be throwing people in prison just for having files like that on their hard drives.
[07:45.860 --> 07:56.260]  Anyway, the swinging of the pendulum away from open records, supporters of the trend, say, is a necessary safeguard against terrorists who could use sensitive public information to attack airports, water treatment plants, nuclear reactors, and more.
[07:56.380 --> 08:03.520]  Or, you know what, they could just get on an airplane and lie about having a bomb and hold something sharp to somebody's neck and crash planes into buildings, you know?
[08:04.460 --> 08:07.460]  And restriction of information is not going to prevent that kind of thing.
[08:07.620 --> 08:13.520]  You know, strict terror has existed for a millennium, and that's always going to be the case.
[08:13.680 --> 08:16.880]  They didn't have the Internet back in, you know, the days of the Ottoman Empire.
[08:16.880 --> 08:22.140]  They simply did what they had to do in whatever means they saw fit.
[08:22.400 --> 08:24.940]  So, restricting information is not going to prevent this.
[08:25.060 --> 08:26.700]  It'll simply drive it into another forum.
[08:27.060 --> 08:31.980]  And there's no evidence that any of this information has been used in such a way in the first place.
[08:32.880 --> 08:35.780]  And there's no telling what the lack of such information will do to us.
[08:36.620 --> 08:46.760]  Officials acknowledge that there are very few examples of terrorists actually using public records to glean sensitive information, but they say that the terrorist attacks prove the need for extraordinary caution.
[08:47.360 --> 08:48.700]  I don't follow that logic.
[08:48.940 --> 08:54.280]  It basically means they saw an opportunity here to clamp down on freedom of speech, and they took it.
[08:55.080 --> 08:59.380]  And that's basically, you know, they're hiding behind the flag and saying that they're doing this to protect us.
[09:00.700 --> 09:02.440]  I don't see that at all.
[09:02.560 --> 09:06.920]  I do not feel protected by having information restricted that we have the right to know.
[09:07.040 --> 09:14.660]  And I'd like to know, for people that have copies, that have made their own copies of the CD-ROMs, are they being ordered now to turn those in?
[09:14.680 --> 09:15.180]  Are they criminals?
[09:15.300 --> 09:16.220]  Do they hold on to that information?
[09:16.220 --> 09:24.080]  What if I went down to the library a few months before all this happened, or a few years, and made my own copies, or took it out of the library and copied it, you know, back home?
[09:24.280 --> 09:26.080]  Which would be perfectly legal.
[09:26.180 --> 09:27.080]  Back then, yes.
[09:27.260 --> 09:27.580]  Right.
[09:27.660 --> 09:29.240]  But, what do I have to do now?
[09:29.320 --> 09:31.040]  Do I have to turn those things in?
[09:31.120 --> 09:33.200]  Do I have to, you know, turn myself in?
[09:33.400 --> 09:33.960]  I don't know.
[09:33.960 --> 09:35.000]  Well, yeah, I'm scared.
[09:35.000 --> 09:35.640]  I don't know.
[09:36.460 --> 09:37.780]  Not that I have any of that information.
[09:37.860 --> 09:38.360]  But I could.
[09:38.560 --> 09:39.160]  Anybody could.
[09:39.860 --> 09:41.180]  And can I put it up on the website?
[09:41.420 --> 09:43.660]  You know, can I say, this is where a dam is.
[09:43.700 --> 09:44.940]  This is where a nuclear power plant is.
[09:44.980 --> 09:50.480]  I mean, they're going to say, you don't have the right to know where the nuclear power plants are, because a terrorist then would know, and then they could target it.
[09:50.860 --> 09:54.800]  You know, maybe you don't even have the right to know if there's a nuclear power plant at all.
[09:55.240 --> 09:57.780]  Because that's bad information that could be used against you.
[09:59.340 --> 10:00.960]  It's really getting very silly.
[10:06.920 --> 10:07.340]  Okay.
[10:07.900 --> 10:14.260]  And then there's another story, which I came across on a mailing list, which I thought was pretty shocking.
[10:14.960 --> 10:19.000]  I think you might have seen this too, Mike, about something that happened down in North Carolina.
[10:19.540 --> 10:20.380]  Brown University.
[10:21.760 --> 10:23.520]  Brown is in Providence.
[10:23.620 --> 10:24.100]  Yeah, you're right.
[10:24.340 --> 10:25.420]  What do I mean here?
[10:26.760 --> 10:29.420]  Well, this comes from Durham, North Carolina Independent.
[10:29.940 --> 10:30.920]  Oh, it's Durham Tech.
[10:32.560 --> 10:34.660]  Oh, okay, the person's name is Brown, I'm sorry.
[10:35.080 --> 10:35.580]  A.J.
[10:35.760 --> 10:37.300]  Brown, I'm sorry, I got all confused there.
[10:37.600 --> 10:42.020]  A 19-year-old freshman at Durham Tech was thanking God it was Friday.
[10:42.020 --> 10:42.920]  It was 5 p.m.
[10:42.980 --> 10:46.320]  The school week was over, and in an hour, she'd be meeting her boyfriend to unwind.
[10:47.440 --> 10:49.080]  Then, a knock comes on the door.
[10:49.920 --> 10:52.180]  Unexpected guests at Brown's Duke Manor apartment.
[10:52.920 --> 10:55.320]  Opening the door, she found a casually dressed man.
[10:55.420 --> 10:58.000]  And the man and woman in what appeared to be business attire.
[10:58.240 --> 11:02.820]  Her first thought, she says, was, Are these people going to sell me something?
[11:03.840 --> 11:08.580]  But then, the man in the suit introduced himself and the woman as agents from the Raleigh office of the U.S.
[11:08.700 --> 11:09.360]  Secret Service.
[11:09.700 --> 11:12.400]  The other man was an investigator from the Durham Police Department.
[11:13.040 --> 11:18.320]  Ma'am, we've gotten a report that you have anti-American material, the male agent said, according to Brown.
[11:18.880 --> 11:20.620]  Could they come in to have a look around?
[11:21.560 --> 11:22.700]  Do you have a warrant?
[11:22.840 --> 11:23.400]  Brown asked.
[11:23.600 --> 11:24.280]  They did not.
[11:24.280 --> 11:26.560]  Then, you're not coming in my apartment.
[11:27.260 --> 11:31.280]  I want everybody to practice saying things like that, because I think we're going to need to practice this.
[11:32.320 --> 11:35.560]  And, indeed, they stayed outside her doorway, and they stayed a while.
[11:35.700 --> 11:36.820]  Forty minutes, Brown estimates.
[11:37.120 --> 11:40.720]  And gave her a taste of how dissenters can come under scrutiny in wartime.
[11:41.360 --> 11:43.760]  And all because of a poster on her wall.
[11:44.580 --> 11:49.040]  Though she's still a teenager, Brown is already more informed about political repression than most Americans.
[11:49.260 --> 11:51.300]  She's been politically aware and involved since grade school.
[11:51.580 --> 11:56.060]  In second grade, I saw the Gulf War on television, and seeing those bombs drop, it did something to me, she says.
[11:56.060 --> 11:59.720]  I knew from some news reports that there were some innocent people dying.
[12:00.320 --> 12:04.440]  In middle school, Brown became interested in environmentalism and civil liberties.
[12:05.180 --> 12:06.860]  That's not when she made the list, don't worry.
[12:07.120 --> 12:15.580]  She made the shift to a full-fledged activist at Jordan High School when she became involved with Youth Voice Radio, a media collective with a leftist bent.
[12:16.260 --> 12:19.480]  Most recently, she's been involved with the movement against the war in Afghanistan.
[12:20.400 --> 12:27.440]  Brown and fellow activists often discuss government encroachments on free speech and political organizing, she says, as do some of her favorite hip-hop artists.
[12:27.640 --> 12:32.240]  She loves her music, and that may have been what sparked the turn of events that brought the Secret Service to her door.
[12:33.160 --> 12:35.440]  Brown suspects it began with the noise complaints.
[12:35.540 --> 12:39.220]  On October 22nd, a Monday evening, she stayed up late playing some new CDs for her boyfriend.
[12:39.720 --> 12:41.940]  By her own admission, she was playing them too loud.
[12:41.940 --> 12:46.260]  Around midnight, a Durham police officer came by to tell her to turn it down, and she obliged.
[12:47.280 --> 12:53.660]  Two nights later, someone from Duke Manor called in another noise complaint, and again, the police officer came to Brown's door.
[12:54.100 --> 12:57.520]  This time, she says, her music wasn't playing at an offensive volume.
[12:57.740 --> 13:00.840]  The police officer speculated that the call may have been about someone else's music.
[13:01.340 --> 13:10.460]  And during this visit, and unlike the first, the officer had a full view of the wall that faces Brown's front doorway, a detail that would become relevant two days later.
[13:10.460 --> 13:13.160]  On that wall hung the poster.
[13:14.940 --> 13:18.860]  Brown got it at an anti-inauguration protest in Washington, D.C.
[13:18.980 --> 13:19.680]  We all were there.
[13:19.760 --> 13:22.340]  We all know what kinds of posters were being passed around.
[13:22.480 --> 13:23.180]  Everybody saw them.
[13:23.400 --> 13:24.300]  They were on TV and everything.
[13:24.980 --> 13:27.580]  Distributed to hundreds of activists, it depicts George W.
[13:27.780 --> 13:33.040]  Bush holding a length of rope against a backdrop of lynching victims, and reads,
[13:38.740 --> 13:43.260]  And that's a reference to the number of people executed by the state of Texas while Bush was governor.
[13:43.920 --> 13:50.060]  Brown believes that the message caused the Durham policeman who paid the second visit to her apartment to recommend a third.
[13:50.720 --> 13:58.140]  On Friday, October 26th, two Secret Service agents, along with Durham police investigator Rex Godley, came to Brown's apartment.
[13:58.480 --> 14:01.780]  Special Agent Paul Lally, who did most of the talking, spoke first.
[14:02.920 --> 14:09.120]  Ma'am, we've gotten the report that you have anti-American material or something like that in your apartment, he said, according to Brown.
[14:09.120 --> 14:11.580]  Then the female agent asked if they could come inside.
[14:11.800 --> 14:18.680]  When Brown pressed them for a warrant and refused to allow them in, she says, They started to talk to me about how we're not here to take you away or put you in jail.
[14:18.680 --> 14:21.220]  They were like, we need to follow up on every report we get.
[14:21.840 --> 14:25.460]  I said, that's understandable, but how would you even know what's in my apartment?
[14:26.160 --> 14:29.320]  They just said that they had gotten information from someplace, she says.
[14:29.860 --> 14:33.640]  She speculates that it was from the police officer who visited for the second noise complaint.
[14:34.640 --> 14:38.940]  Godley, the Durham police investigator, won't say where the authorities got their tip about Brown's poster.
[14:38.940 --> 14:43.700]  The only thing I can tell you, he says, is that we were assisting the Secret Service on one of their cases.
[14:45.080 --> 14:50.560]  Raleigh referred questions about the visit to Special Agent Craig Ulmer, who heads the Secret Service office in Raleigh.
[14:50.980 --> 14:55.980]  We went in the first place because we received a tip about a threat against the president, Ulmer says.
[14:56.400 --> 15:02.640]  He refuses to identify the source of the tip except to say that it was a concerned citizen and not a law enforcement officer.
[15:03.400 --> 15:06.420]  It's Secret Service policy to keep such sources confidential.
[15:06.940 --> 15:11.440]  We can't discuss who gives us information like that because we want people to bring us information, he says.
[15:11.860 --> 15:15.020]  If we burn our bridges, so to speak, we're not going to get help from the public.
[15:16.040 --> 15:20.260]  He added that the poster was in plain view, even from the window, so anyone could have tipped us off.
[15:20.960 --> 15:23.680]  The agents persisted in their effort to get a peek inside the apartment.
[15:23.800 --> 15:26.180]  They were being friendly, trying to get me to let them in, Brown says.
[15:27.060 --> 15:30.700]  After a while, Brown called her mother, an IBM employee who was in the Army Reserve.
[15:30.700 --> 15:32.960]  She said to absolutely not let them in.
[15:34.100 --> 15:40.140]  Not sure what else to do, Brown passed the phone with her mother still on the line to one of the agents.
[15:40.980 --> 15:44.620]  The standoff continued, and eventually the agents explained why they had come by.
[15:45.480 --> 15:46.600]  We already know what it is.
[15:46.680 --> 15:49.980]  It's a target of Bush, one of them said, according to Brown, apparently a reference to the poster.
[15:50.660 --> 15:52.340]  She informed them it was no such thing.
[15:52.600 --> 15:54.520]  They then said, well, it's Bush hanging himself.
[15:54.840 --> 15:55.740]  Nope, she told them.
[16:00.700 --> 16:03.300]  And the lady was like, oh, that's not that bad.
[16:03.640 --> 16:05.780]  The mail agent said, we've seen worse.
[16:06.900 --> 16:09.160]  Still, Brown's brush with the authorities wasn't over.
[16:09.340 --> 16:11.940]  Since they were just gawking at my wall, I decided to explain it.
[16:13.180 --> 16:15.860]  The wall features Brown's favorite art and mementos.
[16:16.100 --> 16:18.720]  A high school photo project showing the perils of smoking cigarettes.
[16:18.780 --> 16:19.620]  A Pink Floyd poster.
[16:19.980 --> 16:22.260]  It has that phrase, mother, should I trust the government?
[16:22.260 --> 16:23.420]  So I had to get it.
[16:24.020 --> 16:26.140]  Posters for two Japanese cartoon shows.
[16:26.300 --> 16:29.420]  Several pictures she took at protests and rallies.
[16:29.420 --> 16:31.760]  And a headband with the word democracy on it.
[16:32.400 --> 16:34.800]  And, of course, the Bush as hangman poster.
[16:35.820 --> 16:41.920]  Having seen the poster, Brown says, the agents questioned her further, asking, do you have any Afghanistan stuff in your apartment?
[16:41.920 --> 16:43.680]  Or anything pertaining to that?
[16:43.760 --> 16:45.100]  Any pro-Taliban stuff?
[16:45.940 --> 16:48.000]  I kept saying no, Brown says.
[16:48.260 --> 16:50.920]  And I was like, personally, I think the Taliban are a bunch of assholes.
[16:51.800 --> 16:54.140]  With that, the investigator and the agents bid her adieu.
[16:54.220 --> 16:55.280]  I guess those are the magic words.
[16:55.940 --> 17:01.960]  Brown was temporarily rattled by the visit from the Secret Service, she says, but the poster's still up, and she's still committed to her activism.
[17:02.620 --> 17:04.220]  I'm definitely going to be vocal, she says.
[17:04.220 --> 17:08.900]  If things get really hairy and they decide to come after activists, then I'd have to just grit my teeth and go through it.
[17:10.120 --> 17:13.060]  Ulmer rejects the notion that Brown was targeted because of her politics.
[17:14.400 --> 17:15.080]  And, uh...
[17:15.080 --> 17:16.980]  I don't see how else you could interpret that.
[17:17.320 --> 17:22.420]  He insists that the Secret Service would have checked this tip out even if it had come in before the events of September 11th.
[17:22.640 --> 17:26.900]  We were doing our job in this particular case, and I don't think we could have done it any better.
[17:27.700 --> 17:32.060]  The Secret Service takes all threats against the President seriously, and we go out to check on every one.
[17:33.560 --> 17:37.960]  A citizen thought that there was a threat, and we went and talked to Ms. Brown, and we found that there was not a threat.
[17:38.620 --> 17:41.880]  The poster, he says, was misconstrued by the tipster, so it's not a big issue.
[17:41.940 --> 17:44.660]  The issue is that someone misinterpreted some writing.
[17:45.320 --> 17:51.020]  But when some writing on a poster is investigated by federal authorities, constitutional issues come into play.
[17:51.760 --> 18:02.120]  Some legal analysts are warning that the new national security vigilance and new laws passed to counterterrorism might impinge on free speech in big and small ways.
[18:03.840 --> 18:13.780]  A poster of Bush, even if he's in a noose, is protected speech during wartime or peacetime, notes Alex Charnes, a Durham attorney who specializes in civil rights.
[18:14.140 --> 18:19.020]  Such speech is all the more protected, he points out, when it's displayed within a person's home.
[18:24.030 --> 18:31.870]  When a well-trained, when a trained police officer doesn't know the difference between political speech and a threat to the president, then we're all in trouble.
[18:32.070 --> 18:36.870]  He says, if the Secret Service has nothing better to do than checking political posters, then that's a bad sign.
[18:38.110 --> 18:40.650]  Is having anti-American material a crime?
[18:41.610 --> 18:53.030]  You know, I don't think, from my history, from growing up in this country, it was my understanding when I arrived here, which was at birth, that that kind of thing was permitted.
[18:53.030 --> 18:55.410]  You could criticize the government, you could speak out against the government.
[18:55.750 --> 18:56.630]  That's what I thought.
[18:56.830 --> 19:07.970]  Although, at one point, and maybe somebody can verify this for me, in the New York State Driver's Manual, they listed reasons for having your license revoked.
[19:08.170 --> 19:11.510]  And one of them was advocating the overthrow of the government.
[19:11.750 --> 19:22.370]  It's not in there anymore, so I guess it's legal to do that, but I was amazed, even as a kid reading that, that that could actually be something that you could get your driver's license taken away for.
[19:25.550 --> 19:27.970]  So, that's some of the troubling news.
[19:28.170 --> 19:29.710]  Now, it gets worse.
[19:29.890 --> 19:30.830]  Of course, it always gets worse.
[19:30.890 --> 19:35.110]  And I'm sure our listeners have more things to let us know about.
[19:36.530 --> 19:38.370]  And we'll be taking your phone calls in just a moment.
[19:38.370 --> 19:44.550]  But, uh, there's been, uh, a hacker angle to all this.
[19:45.890 --> 19:50.090]  This, uh, was on the Associated Press, entitled, uh, New Law Let's U.S.
[19:50.290 --> 19:51.650]  Nab Foreign Hackers.
[19:52.090 --> 20:01.490]  The recently approved anti-terrorism law could be used to prosecute foreign hackers, a move critics say could make the United States the world's internet policeman.
[20:03.410 --> 20:12.630]  The new prosecutorial powers, which have no parallel in other nations, affect computer hacking cases, and take advantage of nations' pivotal role in internet communications.
[20:13.250 --> 20:22.450]  Uh, the precedent could be used to apply to pornography or other crimes in which laws differ between nations, according to a former Justice Department computer crimes prosecutor.
[20:22.850 --> 20:25.090]  It's a massive expansion of U.S.
[20:25.170 --> 20:32.370]  sovereignty, said, uh, uh, Mark Rasch, uh, now with, uh, computer security firm Predictive Systems.
[20:33.730 --> 20:37.230]  A prosecution can occur if any part of a crime takes place within U.S.
[20:37.350 --> 20:37.590]  borders.
[20:37.830 --> 20:44.310]  A large part of the internet's communications traffic goes through the United States, even in messages that travel from one foreign country to another.
[20:45.010 --> 20:49.630]  Uh, the change was highlighted last month by the Justice Department and its field guidance to federal prosecutors.
[20:50.290 --> 20:58.570]  Individuals in foreign countries frequently route communications through the United States, even as they hack from one foreign country to another, the recommendation said.
[20:58.890 --> 21:05.250]  The amendment creates the option, where appropriate, of prosecuting such criminals in the United States.
[21:05.910 --> 21:11.430]  So those hackers out there in foreign countries who are looking to visit the United States, this might be your best option.
[21:11.870 --> 21:17.290]  What happens if you're, if you're from one of those countries that we don't like people coming, you know, into this country for?
[21:17.410 --> 21:29.310]  You know, people who try to visit this country but are turned away because their skin complexion is the wrong color or, uh, because we just don't like the politics or, um, or we do like the politics of that country and don't want their refugees coming here.
[21:29.850 --> 21:30.390]  I don't know.
[21:30.470 --> 21:34.370]  If somebody from that country hacks into one of our systems, I guess maybe they can be brought over here.
[21:34.590 --> 21:35.790]  Well, then they get kicked out.
[21:36.010 --> 21:37.650]  They, they, they get brought over here.
[21:37.830 --> 21:38.170]  Oh, no, no, no.
[21:38.430 --> 21:40.590]  They, I think they're, they're put into a nice, clean prison.
[21:40.790 --> 21:42.490]  Well, they get brought over here, put in prison.
[21:42.630 --> 21:44.810]  Then when their term is up, they get deported again.
[21:45.010 --> 21:47.250]  But their term might be, you know, it might be a life sentence.
[21:47.430 --> 21:50.670]  Remember the, the, the terrorism being defined broadly.
[21:51.370 --> 21:52.410]  Hacking could very easily be...
[21:52.410 --> 21:54.270]  Do you imagine if any other country tried to pass this bill?
[21:54.470 --> 21:55.850]  They'd never get away with it.
[21:57.130 --> 21:58.630]  Well, we haven't gotten away with it yet.
[21:59.850 --> 22:02.110]  The FBI referred questions to the Justice Department.
[22:02.750 --> 22:05.170]  A Justice Department spokesman did not return calls.
[22:06.110 --> 22:11.470]  More than 80% of Internet access points in Asia, Africa, and South America are connected through U.S.
[22:11.570 --> 22:16.770]  cities, according to Jessica Marantz of the Internet statistics firm Telegeography.
[22:17.330 --> 22:24.490]  So, for example, an email sent between two cities in China probably would travel through the United States, putting its contents under American jurisdiction.
[22:25.430 --> 22:32.390]  The Justice Department pushed for that, for legislation as a way to fight terrorism and American interests overseas could be protected by the change.
[22:32.870 --> 22:36.930]  But the change in law creates a precedent that could be used to prosecute any computer crime.
[22:37.430 --> 22:40.230]  From basic data theft to sending pornographic pictures.
[22:40.470 --> 22:49.010]  Current law already allows pornography prosecutions in any jurisdiction the pictures pass through, but this has not yet been applied on an international scale to internet transmissions.
[22:49.230 --> 22:59.790]  For example, an owner of a pornography site in Sweden might be prosecuted for sending a racy picture to a friend in Norway if the message happened to travel through a computer in Fairfax, Virginia.
[23:00.350 --> 23:01.570]  In that case, a U.S.
[23:01.690 --> 23:09.010]  prosecutor could try to extradite the sender and prosecute him for breaking Virginia law using Virginia's standards for obscenity.
[23:10.150 --> 23:11.930]  Wait, isn't pornography legal?
[23:12.810 --> 23:13.930]  Well, that's...
[23:13.930 --> 23:21.970]  Now you're getting into accuracy of the story, which I imagine they're referring to the kind of pornography that isn't legal, that is legal in some places.
[23:22.230 --> 23:28.850]  There's age limits in other places that are different than here, and certainly Virginia has laws that are different than other states.
[23:30.790 --> 23:40.370]  We haven't done that yet because it's an affront to the way the internet works, but now we're criminalizing anything that happens over the internet because traffic passes through the United States.
[23:40.530 --> 23:46.930]  What it basically says is that we will impose our values on anything that happens anywhere in the world provided it passes through our borders.
[23:47.930 --> 23:48.510]  What about...
[23:48.510 --> 23:50.050]  What about satellite transmissions?
[23:50.230 --> 23:52.210]  You know, they kind of pass through everybody, don't they?
[23:52.910 --> 23:54.570]  Radio, you know, that kind of thing.
[23:54.870 --> 23:57.690]  I mean, basically, these radio waves are traveling.
[23:57.790 --> 23:58.410]  They're leaving the Earth.
[23:58.550 --> 23:59.590]  They're traveling into outer space.
[23:59.590 --> 24:07.010]  Can you imagine if some planet someplace takes offense to the tone of my voice and obliterates our planet because of that?
[24:07.250 --> 24:08.190]  That wouldn't be right.
[24:10.030 --> 24:20.010]  FBI agents complain about about the difficulty of computer crime investigations that almost always venture overseas, requiring time-consuming search warrants at every step and the cooperation of foreign governments.
[24:20.130 --> 24:26.230]  They also are frustrated by offshore pornography and gambling websites accessed by Americans that are legal in their own countries.
[24:27.290 --> 24:38.250]  David Sobel, general counsel of the Washington-based Electronic Privacy Information Center, said the change is particularly troubling when coupled with powers to send federal agents overseas to abduct and bring back suspects for trial.
[24:38.970 --> 24:40.630]  That's a significant expansion of U.S.
[24:41.050 --> 24:43.430]  jurisdiction with respect to so-called cyber crimes, he said.
[24:43.770 --> 24:48.970]  It was enacted under the guise of counterterrorism, but it is in fact applicable to all types of crimes.
[24:50.690 --> 24:52.930]  Well, you know, okay, let's level the playing field.
[24:53.050 --> 25:10.290]  Let's allow every country in the world to do just the same thing, you know, and then we can have fundamentalists from all kinds of regimes everywhere coming onto our shores and taking our very citizens away for insulting, you know, leaders or gods or books or whatever it is that they don't want us to be talking about.
[25:10.410 --> 25:14.290]  I mean, yeah, I guess that's one form of globalization the Internet can bring us.
[25:14.490 --> 25:16.510]  You know, unified prosecution everywhere.
[25:17.630 --> 25:18.850]  What a bunch of morons.
[25:18.970 --> 25:21.110]  Anyway, this also goes further.
[25:21.330 --> 25:22.350]  I don't know if you saw this story.
[25:22.410 --> 25:23.210]  This is on the BBC.
[25:24.390 --> 25:24.970]  U.S.
[25:25.070 --> 25:26.750]  shuts down Somalia Internet.
[25:27.330 --> 25:28.570]  I kid you not.
[25:29.590 --> 25:35.990]  Somalia's only Internet company and a key telecoms business have been forced to close because the United States suspects them of terrorist links.
[25:36.310 --> 25:41.770]  The two firms, Somalia Internet Company and Al Barakat, both appear on a U.S.
[25:41.790 --> 25:46.790]  list of organizations accused of funneling money to the Al-Qaeda network and featured in a U.N.
[25:46.870 --> 25:48.190]  Security Council resolution.
[25:48.690 --> 25:51.470]  Both companies have stated they are not linked to terrorists.
[25:52.830 --> 26:01.610]  Along with denying all Internet access to Somalis, the closures have severely restricted international telephone lines and shut down vitally needed money transfer facilities.
[26:02.410 --> 26:08.050]  Correspondents say the closure of the companies will have a devastating effect on the country which desperately needs the services they provide.
[26:09.090 --> 26:11.390]  So, uh, yeah, it's started already.
[26:14.110 --> 26:15.190]  Pretty depressing, isn't it?
[26:16.310 --> 26:19.850]  See, look what happens when I come here and hear the news.
[26:19.970 --> 26:20.690]  I don't know.
[26:20.690 --> 26:22.150]  Well, it gets better.
[26:23.110 --> 26:31.030]  This comes from, uh, one of, uh, one of our Australian, uh, sites, which actually quotes it from the Sunday Telegraph of London.
[26:31.330 --> 26:37.810]  British police will set up a secret database of children as young as three who they fear might grow up to become criminals.
[26:38.230 --> 26:45.970]  Youngsters who behave badly or commit trivial misdemeanors will be put on the confidential register so they can be monitored and supervised throughout childhood.
[26:46.490 --> 26:52.210]  The controversial initiative is to be pioneered in 11 London boroughs from March and then expanded nationally.
[26:52.750 --> 26:58.870]  Any child who is thought to be at risk of committing a crime by the police, schools, or social services will be put on the database.
[26:59.050 --> 27:02.650]  Thought to be at risk of committing a crime.
[27:04.070 --> 27:04.810]  My goodness.
[27:05.610 --> 27:06.930]  That's going to be a lot of people.
[27:07.150 --> 27:09.930]  I mean, they just, they really care about us, don't they?
[27:09.930 --> 27:12.130]  They really want to protect us from all kinds of badness.
[27:13.070 --> 27:14.330]  I wonder if I'm at risk...
[27:14.330 --> 27:15.150]  Protect me, please.
[27:15.150 --> 27:20.330]  If I'm at risk of committing a crime, you know, take me away now because I certainly don't want to go down that road.
[27:21.450 --> 27:29.570]  Children who are cheeky, that's a British word for obnoxious, involved in minor vandalism or causing nuisances will be targeted under this scheme.
[27:29.750 --> 27:31.690]  Children as young as three years old.
[27:32.330 --> 27:42.850]  Their progress will then be monitored at school and on the streets by special squads of police officers and social workers, even though the children have not committed a crime and will not have been warned that they are being watched.
[27:43.770 --> 27:50.770]  Ian Blair, the deputy commissioner of the Metropolitan Police said the register was needed because of a rise in youngsters turning to violent crime.
[27:51.890 --> 27:53.490]  Why don't they just exterminate the youngsters?
[27:53.570 --> 27:54.930]  That would also solve the problem, wouldn't it?
[27:55.570 --> 27:56.790]  Makes about as much sense.
[27:57.730 --> 28:03.370]  The plan grew out of the Damalola-Taylor murder inquiry on a council estate in London last year.
[28:03.610 --> 28:05.650]  There, police came across dozens of wild children
[28:09.030 --> 28:12.690]  who, outside the scope of the present law, were at risk of becoming criminals.
[28:12.850 --> 28:13.770]  Wild children in England?
[28:13.770 --> 28:14.350]  How do you like that?
[28:15.110 --> 28:16.450]  Mr. Blair admitted...
[28:16.970 --> 28:18.850]  This different Blair, not Tony Blair, Ian Blair.
[28:19.130 --> 28:20.070]  Must be related, though.
[28:20.410 --> 28:21.990]  This is pretty revolutionary stuff.
[28:21.990 --> 28:32.530]  There will be lots of worries, but as long as it is understood that the purpose of holding this information is to ensure that we should collectively intervene to prevent children from becoming criminal, I think that it will be accepted.
[28:33.490 --> 28:36.570]  The civil rights group Liberty expressed concern about the plan.
[28:43.770 --> 28:44.930]  These things are being accepted.
[28:45.390 --> 28:55.970]  If you look at all the polls, every time some new right is going to be taken away because it's involved in the fight against terrorism, well, yeah, we have to agree to that.
[28:56.050 --> 28:56.790]  We have to do this.
[28:57.010 --> 28:59.930]  I mean, you know, it's the only way to remain safe.
[29:00.150 --> 29:01.110]  Close down the libraries?
[29:01.190 --> 29:02.610]  If it will stop terrorism, absolutely.
[29:04.410 --> 29:05.810]  Make waving the flag mandatory?
[29:06.390 --> 29:08.150]  If it raises the spirit of the country, sure.
[29:09.930 --> 29:10.950]  It's for the children.
[29:11.270 --> 29:12.090]  It's for the children.
[29:12.090 --> 29:14.010]  For God's sake, think of the children.
[29:14.250 --> 29:21.390]  You know, some of us thinking of the children are really having severe doubts about all this.
[29:23.230 --> 29:25.750]  And Hollywood, of course, is involved as well.
[29:26.250 --> 29:35.090]  A 40-plus member committee has been formed in the aftermath of a meeting between entertainment industry chieftains and top White House advisor Karl Rove, according to Daily Variety.
[29:35.210 --> 29:36.510]  See, we get our news from all different sources.
[29:36.990 --> 29:53.210]  The panel, coordinated by the MPAA, remember them, and its president, CEO Jack Valente, remember him, includes officials from each of the seven major studios and DreamWorks, as well as TV executives, representatives from the talent guilds, and several independent industry figures.
[29:53.750 --> 29:59.090]  Valente played something of a task manager during the committee's first conference call meeting on November 16th.
[29:59.290 --> 30:01.290]  I'm sure he wasn't operating the phone, though.
[30:02.650 --> 30:06.630]  Dividing up various ideas and assigning them out for further study.
[30:07.010 --> 30:17.770]  Categories include wartime trailers, distribution of movies to troops, USO tours, and various public service announcements, whether the messages are directed at domestic or international audiences.
[30:18.370 --> 30:23.190]  It was so early in the game that everyone was speaking in vague terms about what might be done, said one studio executive.
[30:24.110 --> 30:26.310]  Everyone is rushing to participate, but what does that mean?
[30:26.390 --> 30:30.430]  Is there a middle ground that extols the virtue of a democratic, tolerant society?
[30:32.170 --> 30:41.070]  While Hollywood has rushed to do its part in the war on terrorism, industry leaders remain concerned that they will create the perception that they are becoming government operatives.
[30:41.570 --> 30:42.090]  Becoming?
[30:43.730 --> 30:51.050]  Valente said he has not been keeping the Bush administration informed about either the formation of the committee or details of the panel's first telephone conference.
[30:53.010 --> 30:56.490]  And their next meeting at the White House is on December 6th.
[30:57.910 --> 30:58.730]  Oh, boy.
[30:59.630 --> 31:01.750]  Well, they're not becoming government operatives.
[31:01.950 --> 31:04.110]  Government is becoming a Hollywood operative.
[31:04.170 --> 31:05.970]  I just don't see how this is relevant at all.
[31:06.070 --> 31:07.010]  It's called art.
[31:07.250 --> 31:08.290]  You know, it's...
[31:08.290 --> 31:11.210]  Well, maybe in the case of Hollywood it's not called art.
[31:11.250 --> 31:11.890]  Some of it's art.
[31:11.990 --> 31:17.770]  But the point is people express themselves in different ways whether by writing books, making films, producing TV shows.
[31:17.990 --> 31:24.910]  Why not let the public judge it on those lines, you know, and not have to confer with government officials about various things.
[31:25.150 --> 31:32.010]  Whether it's regulatory to get feedback, it's not their place and I'm sure they have more important things to be worrying about right now.
[31:34.190 --> 31:36.130]  Okay, now let's talk about security a little bit.
[31:38.830 --> 31:45.950]  I heard about the case last week where this guy in Atlanta made the fatal mistake of...
[31:45.950 --> 31:50.990]  Well, not fatal, not yet anyway, but certainly a big mistake of running down the up escalator.
[31:51.090 --> 31:51.630]  Did you hear about this?
[31:51.830 --> 31:52.490]  Where was this?
[31:52.610 --> 31:53.450]  In Atlanta airport.
[31:53.450 --> 31:56.850]  He apparently forgot a bag or something.
[31:57.210 --> 31:59.350]  He left his camera bag someplace.
[31:59.950 --> 32:02.030]  And he ran down the up escalator.
[32:02.130 --> 32:08.390]  In so doing, he caused the shutdown of the entire airport because he breached security.
[32:08.610 --> 32:15.270]  And that in turn caused all kinds of delays worldwide on airlines because the Atlanta airport had been shut down.
[32:16.090 --> 32:17.370]  Well now...
[32:17.370 --> 32:25.130]  And he was among the people for a couple of hours outside wondering what was going on.
[32:25.270 --> 32:26.390]  He didn't even know that they were looking for him.
[32:26.470 --> 32:28.330]  And when they found him they were, of course, very upset.
[32:29.550 --> 32:36.130]  It was pointed out in the media many, many times that had he done this a few months earlier it wouldn't have been a big deal at all.
[32:36.990 --> 32:42.410]  Now, they're expecting him to pay all the damages for all this inconvenience.
[32:42.510 --> 32:47.930]  Air Tran Airways filed a federal lawsuit Monday against Michael Lasseter in a U.S.
[32:48.010 --> 32:52.530]  district court in Atlanta in connection with the shutdown of Hartsfield-Atlanta International Airport earlier this month.
[32:53.250 --> 32:58.150]  The airline said the November 16 cancellations and diversions of flights cost the company more than $1 million.
[32:59.730 --> 33:02.590]  They're seeking at least $100 grand in damages from him.
[33:03.290 --> 33:08.190]  He was charged with disorderly conduct for running past security guards and down an up escalator.
[33:08.910 --> 33:17.130]  He said he was concerned about his 6-year-old son who was at a Northwest Airlines gate while he returned to the main terminal to search for his camera bag.
[33:17.130 --> 33:19.130]  He said he was not aware that he had caused all the commotion.
[33:19.930 --> 33:24.950]  His lawyer, Richard Lipman, called the AirTran lawsuit dastardly, exploitive, irresponsible, and senseless.
[33:25.570 --> 33:28.410]  Up to 10,000 people were evacuated when the airport was closed.
[33:29.710 --> 33:33.970]  If you look on CNN, you'll see that most people support the idea this guy should pay the damages.
[33:34.590 --> 33:36.330]  So, go figure.
[33:36.890 --> 33:39.350]  Our phone number is 212-209-2900.
[33:39.350 --> 33:43.110]  If you have any horror stories of your own?
[33:44.270 --> 33:45.570]  Let's hear some not-so-horror stories.
[33:45.570 --> 33:45.970]  Well, okay.
[33:45.970 --> 33:48.090]  You have some news for us as far as the Dimitri case.
[33:48.150 --> 33:49.050]  What happened yesterday?
[33:49.190 --> 33:49.290]  Yes.
[33:49.330 --> 33:52.110]  He had a hearing yesterday in San Jose.
[33:53.510 --> 33:58.390]  And basically, the lawyers have announced that they're going to pursue the case basically on two fronts.
[33:58.930 --> 34:04.290]  One, challenging the constitutionality of our favorite law, the Digital Millennium Copyright Act.
[34:04.650 --> 34:11.410]  And the other, an extraterritoriality issue of whether or not this U.S.
[34:11.490 --> 34:16.690]  law could even be applied to Dimitri, who was in Russia at the time he wrote his software.
[34:17.350 --> 34:22.190]  So, basically, there's going to be another trial that pretty much takes on the DMCA.
[34:23.050 --> 34:29.710]  Well, there's going to be hearings and at the hearings they're going to set dates for future hearings and eventually there will be a trial.
[34:29.750 --> 34:32.950]  There will be a trial because obviously he's not pleading guilty to any of this.
[34:33.470 --> 34:36.590]  Meanwhile, he's stuck in Northern California.
[34:36.970 --> 34:37.610]  That is unbelievable.
[34:37.830 --> 34:43.450]  So, this guy basically is being held in this country against his will because of our stupid law writing.
[34:43.950 --> 34:44.430]  Pretty much.
[34:45.110 --> 34:51.190]  I mean, the international implications of American stupidity is just, it's overwhelming me today.
[34:51.330 --> 34:51.870]  It really is.
[34:54.410 --> 34:54.850]  Okay.
[34:55.090 --> 34:57.050]  We have almost a full switchboard and a couple of lines left.
[34:57.050 --> 35:06.150]  So, if you want to contribute today and tell us something that's going on or offer feedback, anything like that, please give us a call at 212-209-2900.
[35:07.050 --> 35:18.110]  More good news, an internet privacy firm has closed an anonymous web surfing service that had been partly funded by the CIA and intended to give web users in countries such as China and Iran a way to circumvent censors.
[35:18.350 --> 35:20.130]  But it was also pretty good for us here in the U.S.
[35:20.190 --> 35:21.570]  It was a service called SafeWeb.
[35:21.650 --> 35:28.150]  I recommended it highly to many people and I use it all the time to surf to those sites where you didn't want to be known that you were going there.
[35:28.270 --> 35:37.410]  Because whenever you go to a website, I don't know if people know this, people who are using computers, you know, that are fairly new to it, whenever you go to a website, your address gets sent right along with every visit and what you do.
[35:37.410 --> 35:37.930]  Your physical address.
[35:38.770 --> 35:39.830]  Your internet address.
[35:39.970 --> 35:45.130]  There are people who claim they can find your physical address from your internet address but it's not that easy.
[35:45.250 --> 35:45.790]  It can be done.
[35:46.030 --> 35:46.430]  It can be done.
[35:46.530 --> 35:46.650]  Yeah.
[35:47.390 --> 35:49.990]  Especially those of us who have permanent addresses.
[35:49.990 --> 35:51.110]  I've tried this a few times.
[35:51.270 --> 35:56.950]  Every so often I run into somebody on IRC someplace that, you know, is a smart aleck that says, oh, you know, I'm anonymous.
[35:57.190 --> 35:58.250]  And I'm like, okay, you're anonymous.
[35:58.390 --> 36:03.770]  And usually within five minutes I'm able to get his home address simply by looking at things that are publicly accessible.
[36:03.850 --> 36:07.690]  Do you realize, and you might want to try this, folks, put your name in a search engine.
[36:07.830 --> 36:09.650]  Go to Google and put your name in a search engine.
[36:10.110 --> 36:18.830]  More times than not these days, especially with people under a certain age, you'll find things that you've done in elementary school and high school on the web for everybody to look at.
[36:19.150 --> 36:22.170]  And along with that, private information that you really don't want getting out.
[36:23.590 --> 36:25.610]  It's pretty shocking but it's all there.
[36:25.950 --> 36:28.990]  Of course, that information is, that's not a threat to anybody.
[36:29.330 --> 36:35.130]  That's okay to let that lie around and allow all private information to be gotten out.
[36:35.130 --> 36:42.770]  You know, if you put your name in Google, oftentimes you'll see your phone number displayed as a result of the search.
[36:43.250 --> 36:44.030]  Try that too.
[36:44.190 --> 36:50.930]  If you have a listed phone number especially, just typing in your name and city or state, I'm not exactly sure what the format is.
[36:51.050 --> 36:52.210]  Try a few different things.
[36:52.550 --> 36:55.010]  You'll actually see your phone number show up as part of that search.
[36:55.070 --> 36:58.130]  And I'm sure, you know, that's not what the person was searching for when they put your name in.
[36:58.930 --> 37:03.710]  Maybe it was, but they should go to a phone book page to look up your phone number.
[37:04.710 --> 37:15.390]  Anyway, Emeryville, California-based SafeWeb last week quietly shut down its service, which allowed people to surf the web anonymously for free and is unlikely to restart it, according to spokeswoman Sandra Song.
[37:16.090 --> 37:31.070]  The service, which had allowed users to be practically invisible on the internet, was the second of its kind to close in as many months, a trend experts ascribed primarily to commercial problems, but also a shifting mood in the United States that favors national security over protection of privacy.
[37:33.710 --> 37:39.550]  How is it that some 16-year-old somewhere going to a pornography site anonymously, how does that affect national security?
[37:39.690 --> 37:43.250]  Because I guarantee you that's what most of the people were using that site for.
[37:43.870 --> 37:45.650]  It wasn't to plan terrorist acts.
[37:46.710 --> 37:49.330]  And how do you plan a terrorist act by going to a website in the first place?
[37:49.990 --> 37:54.350]  Well, if we reveal that information on the air, people will start to acquire it.
[37:55.050 --> 37:57.530]  Yeah, I'm beginning to wonder about the things we talk about.
[37:58.030 --> 38:07.790]  If anyone has suggestions, ideas on other anonymous proxies and ways to surf the web anonymously, please email us, OTH at 2600.com.
[38:07.990 --> 38:10.290]  Send us an email with all your suggestions and comments.
[38:12.110 --> 38:17.050]  And if you don't have internet access, I can't imagine why you would be telling us how to surf anonymously.
[38:17.050 --> 38:26.210]  But if you, for some reason, don't want to email us, you can send us paper mail at off the hook care of WBAI, 120 Wall Street, New York, New York, 10005.
[38:28.030 --> 38:34.530]  I should point out that these anonymous web proxies are also great for getting around BESS and other web sensors.
[38:34.830 --> 38:35.130]  Mm-hmm.
[38:35.310 --> 38:35.710]  That's right.
[38:35.850 --> 38:36.170]  That's right.
[38:36.370 --> 38:52.330]  And that's one of the ways people were able to access our website in the first place by, you know, such dictatorial software restriction packages like BESS and many of the others in places like Easy Everything.
[38:52.550 --> 38:55.450]  You can't go to our website there unless you use one of these services.
[38:55.610 --> 38:56.830]  And now there's one less.
[38:59.390 --> 38:59.710]  Okay.
[39:00.690 --> 39:02.830]  Let's read some listener mail and we'll take some phone calls.
[39:04.250 --> 39:08.510]  Speaking of cheap phone cards, I've been using this one, www.bigzoo.com.
[39:08.870 --> 39:15.150]  You sign up on their website with a credit card, you get your own PIN number, a toll-free access number, and local access numbers.
[39:15.390 --> 39:18.910]  If you call using a local access number, it costs 2.9 cents a minute.
[39:18.990 --> 39:21.430]  If you call using a toll-free number, it's 3.9 cents a minute.
[39:21.590 --> 39:24.250]  Well, I got it for 3.5, so I beat that by 0.4 cents.
[39:24.870 --> 39:33.930]  And there's a 55-cent surcharge for use a pay phone, which is kind of extravagant considering how they only charge 30 cents to start with and it's really...
[39:34.410 --> 39:35.670]  They're not being charged for anything.
[39:35.670 --> 39:37.350]  It's a ridiculous surcharge in the first place.
[39:38.170 --> 39:41.630]  There are good international rates too, 5 cents a minute to Germany, which is really not bad.
[39:42.050 --> 39:43.330]  And the quality is pretty good.
[39:43.490 --> 39:45.810]  I can't tell the difference from my other long-distance carrier.
[39:46.290 --> 39:47.690]  So thanks for that feedback.
[39:47.830 --> 39:52.850]  And it looks like that's the way to go as far as getting cheap rates when you're not at home.
[39:54.230 --> 40:00.090]  Prepaid cards that you get at various places, including those clubs that you have to pay to be a member of.
[40:00.230 --> 40:03.130]  But there's no reason why you can't buy 50 of them and hand them out to your friends.
[40:03.310 --> 40:05.430]  You can buy them at stores.
[40:05.670 --> 40:06.910]  For 3.5 cents a minute?
[40:07.030 --> 40:07.450]  I don't know.
[40:07.630 --> 40:09.210]  Yeah, that's what I'm not sure about.
[40:10.250 --> 40:18.190]  For those who aren't so close to the border, you can in fact import scanners from places like Radio World in Canada that do the 800 megahertz frequencies.
[40:18.570 --> 40:22.670]  I got my ICR2, that's ICOM R2, the other day.
[40:23.770 --> 40:25.390]  800 megahertz and everything works great.
[40:25.390 --> 40:31.790]  You do have to pay a little more to import it and it takes four weeks to get in the mail, but it's a good option for those of us that can't get up to Canada.
[40:32.330 --> 40:33.730]  So that's not bad.
[40:33.850 --> 40:36.730]  RadioWorld.ca I'm sure would be the address of the place up there.
[40:37.830 --> 40:40.850]  Speaking of Canada, you know what I saw this past Sunday?
[40:41.290 --> 40:42.150]  The Grey Cup.
[40:42.330 --> 40:43.150]  You know what the Grey Cup is?
[40:43.270 --> 40:43.930]  What is that?
[40:44.210 --> 40:45.510]  You don't know what the Grey Cup is, do you?
[40:45.890 --> 40:46.210]  No.
[40:46.450 --> 40:47.390]  You know what the Stanley Cup is?
[40:48.010 --> 40:49.530]  That's a hockey, right?
[40:49.710 --> 40:50.330]  You're a hockey fan?
[40:50.570 --> 40:50.890]  No.
[40:51.430 --> 40:53.010]  Well, how do you know what the Stanley Cup was?
[40:53.050 --> 40:54.910]  You obviously are into hockey to know that.
[40:56.010 --> 41:00.670]  The problem is we're bombarded with sports news to the exclusion of more important things.
[41:00.730 --> 41:01.310]  You know what the Super Bowl is?
[41:01.310 --> 41:02.550]  I've heard of it, yeah.
[41:02.550 --> 41:03.550]  You know what the World Series is?
[41:04.110 --> 41:04.570]  Yeah, yeah.
[41:04.690 --> 41:10.750]  So you're a big sports fan because obviously how else would you know all this information unless you're being bombarded by it constantly?
[41:10.990 --> 41:11.170]  Yes.
[41:12.570 --> 41:13.650]  That's what happens.
[41:13.830 --> 41:16.950]  Do you think in Canada they know what the Super Bowl is?
[41:18.630 --> 41:18.990]  Probably.
[41:19.230 --> 41:22.290]  Do you think they know what the World Series is and the NBA and all that kind of thing?
[41:22.350 --> 41:23.030]  Of course they do.
[41:23.330 --> 41:25.130]  We don't know what the Grey Cup is.
[41:25.650 --> 41:26.190]  You know?
[41:26.390 --> 41:26.990]  No, we don't.
[41:27.110 --> 41:28.310]  It's the next country over.
[41:28.370 --> 41:30.810]  It's one country over and we don't know anything about it.
[41:31.210 --> 41:34.710]  Well, the Grey Cup I'll have you know is their Super Bowl.
[41:34.870 --> 41:51.810]  It's the final game of the Canadian Football League where basically they have a big final game and there's a champion and Winnipeg lost to Calgary I believe and now that I get Canadian DSS I can see things like this and it's really amazing.
[41:51.930 --> 42:00.330]  I mean, I'm not a football fan either but I was amazed by just the fact that there's this whole league of sports up there and nobody here cares about it at all.
[42:00.670 --> 42:04.390]  I don't care about the American League so I'm more than happy to not care about the Canadian ones also.
[42:04.390 --> 42:05.390]  Okay, but you equally don't care.
[42:05.490 --> 42:09.630]  But the point is the point is you know about the Stanley Cup even though you don't care about it.
[42:09.850 --> 42:12.970]  You don't know about the Grey Cup even though you still don't care about that.
[42:13.070 --> 42:15.830]  That's my point is that we don't hear the words.
[42:15.970 --> 42:18.050]  We don't know what's going on and whether you're
[42:27.750 --> 42:28.890]  A DSS provider.
[42:29.150 --> 42:30.830]  Must be like 300 channels on that.
[42:31.150 --> 42:33.670]  Not a single one was covering that game.
[42:33.770 --> 42:35.410]  They were covering all kinds of things.
[42:35.590 --> 42:42.150]  But not a single one was covering the championship game of a major football league in the country right next to us.
[42:43.250 --> 42:44.550]  So that's one of the reasons.
[42:44.870 --> 42:48.270]  Not for the sports, but just for the awareness of what's going on in other cultures.
[42:48.510 --> 42:54.770]  That's why I suggest people get foreign satellite systems as well as domestic ones so you can compare.
[42:54.770 --> 42:59.450]  I mean, just for BBC World alone, which is the BBC 24-hour news station, it's worth it.
[43:00.790 --> 43:09.710]  Failing that, if you're unable to do this and you're stuck with American systems, what I highly recommend, if you have DirecTV, there are two channels on there.
[43:10.310 --> 43:18.010]  BBC America, which is the... I guess... It's not really filtered, but it does have commercials, which kind of stinks.
[43:18.850 --> 43:26.930]  You have that channel, which has news about four times a day, and you also have something called WorldLink TV, which is an amazing non-commercial station that has all kinds of foreign perspectives.
[43:27.470 --> 43:42.070]  If you have something called TiVo, or the equivalent, which is basically an electronic VCR that records programs at all different times, and it figures out when they're on, you simply set it to record BBC World News and whatever newscasts are on WorldLink TV.
[43:42.290 --> 43:49.010]  There was one yesterday from Dubai TV in Qatar, which is the same place that Al Jazeera broadcasts from.
[43:49.990 --> 43:53.930]  And you simply walk over to it once a day and play whatever it recorded.
[43:53.930 --> 43:56.770]  You'll get foreign news that way, you know?
[43:56.870 --> 43:59.630]  And it'll seem as if you're tied in all the time, even though you're really not.
[43:59.670 --> 44:02.850]  It's the closest thing we can get without actually getting foreign media.
[44:04.050 --> 44:05.670]  And that way you'll learn so much more.
[44:07.150 --> 44:08.710]  You'll know what the Grey Cup is, for one thing.
[44:10.950 --> 44:14.230]  Okay, I guess that's pretty much it as far as listener mail.
[44:19.010 --> 44:19.910]  Let's go over here.
[44:20.410 --> 44:21.650]  Good evening, you're on Off the Hook.
[44:22.070 --> 44:22.550]  Hi.
[44:22.770 --> 44:23.110]  How you doing?
[44:23.350 --> 44:26.410]  Speaking of TiVo, I want to get a new VCR for Christmas.
[44:26.770 --> 44:32.530]  Is there a brand which does not mute or blue screen the scrambled channels?
[44:32.710 --> 44:34.390]  I have Time Wormy Cable.
[44:35.310 --> 44:35.790]  Hmm.
[44:37.110 --> 44:38.870]  Do they still scramble the signal?
[44:39.030 --> 44:40.430]  I mean, basically it's...
[44:40.430 --> 44:46.090]  On the second-tier channels, like USA, TNT...
[44:46.090 --> 44:46.370]  Uh-huh.
[44:47.630 --> 44:57.470]  So if I want to watch, let's say, Larry King and whatever is on Fox News or MSNBC at the same time...
[44:57.470 --> 44:57.950]  Mm-hmm.
[44:58.890 --> 45:01.010]  ...it only allows me to watch one channel.
[45:02.150 --> 45:03.570]  That's interesting, yeah, because...
[45:03.570 --> 45:07.750]  And with a VCR, at least I could tape the sound, except the VCRs.
[45:08.950 --> 45:09.490]  Mm-hmm.
[45:09.770 --> 45:11.670]  Mute the sound on the scrambled channel.
[45:11.830 --> 45:12.590]  You have digital cable?
[45:13.030 --> 45:13.450]  No.
[45:13.790 --> 45:14.750]  You don't have digital cable, okay.
[45:15.010 --> 45:19.750]  Because I know that they're able to, you know, to insist that you get a box for every single TV set...
[45:20.310 --> 45:21.670]  ...and you can't split the signal.
[45:21.730 --> 45:22.130]  I don't want that, no.
[45:22.410 --> 45:22.690]  Mm-hmm.
[45:23.930 --> 45:26.290]  Have you tried hooking your cable directly up to your TV?
[45:27.610 --> 45:28.030]  Yeah.
[45:28.190 --> 45:29.890]  Not using one of the boxes?
[45:30.530 --> 45:30.950]  Yeah.
[45:31.510 --> 45:32.230]  And what happens then?
[45:32.970 --> 45:36.070]  I have a scrambled TV, but I get the sound.
[45:36.630 --> 45:37.050]  Okay.
[45:37.050 --> 45:37.070]  Okay.
[45:37.550 --> 45:39.350]  But on a VCR, I don't get the sound.
[45:41.230 --> 45:41.790]  What is...
[45:41.790 --> 45:45.450]  Is there a brand of VCR that allows me to record the sound?
[45:46.010 --> 45:46.730]  I've recorded...
[45:46.730 --> 45:47.250]  Of a scrambled channel.
[45:47.390 --> 45:51.330]  I've recorded sound without picture before, so yeah, I know it's definitely possible.
[45:51.550 --> 45:52.590]  Okay, Toshiba doesn't.
[45:52.730 --> 45:52.990]  Mm-hmm.
[45:53.030 --> 45:56.690]  I have a Sanya that doesn't work, and a Panasonic that doesn't record the sound.
[45:56.870 --> 45:57.050]  Hmm.
[45:57.630 --> 46:01.410]  I don't know the brands off the top of my head that would allow this or wouldn't allow this, but...
[46:01.410 --> 46:04.310]  You know, if it's a talk TV program, I don't need the picture.
[46:04.430 --> 46:05.510]  I can just record the sound.
[46:05.690 --> 46:05.870]  Right.
[46:06.850 --> 46:12.610]  If you fed the audio out of the TV set directly into the VCR, would that not work?
[46:13.550 --> 46:15.390]  Yeah, but what am I watching on the TV then?
[46:15.670 --> 46:17.510]  What you may want to do is...
[46:18.350 --> 46:24.490]  they have audio cassette recorders, some of which have timers, so you could do that.
[46:25.010 --> 46:28.050]  You want to do this while you're watching the same TV set on a different channel?
[46:28.130 --> 46:28.550]  Is that what you're saying?
[46:29.090 --> 46:30.450]  I'm watching one channel.
[46:30.570 --> 46:30.790]  Uh-huh.
[46:30.930 --> 46:34.250]  And I'm trying to record at least the sound of another channel.
[46:34.490 --> 46:34.750]  Uh-huh.
[46:35.850 --> 46:36.630]  From the same...
[46:36.630 --> 46:37.210]  On a VCR.
[46:37.210 --> 46:41.750]  From the same set, from the same cable box.
[46:42.190 --> 46:42.330]  Yeah.
[46:42.490 --> 46:45.250]  Well, the VCR would not be plugged into the cable box.
[46:45.330 --> 46:45.550]  Mm-hmm.
[46:45.930 --> 46:47.370]  It would just be plugged into the cable.
[46:47.450 --> 46:48.250]  Yeah, I see what you're saying.
[46:48.350 --> 46:51.850]  The VCR allows you to watch one program and tape another at the same time.
[46:52.030 --> 46:58.390]  That gets kind of messed up with cable because, you know, all cable comes through on channel 3 and, you know, it's...
[46:58.390 --> 47:00.530]  Yeah, but they have A-B switches, so...
[47:00.530 --> 47:00.810]  Mm-hmm.
[47:02.630 --> 47:09.890]  I'll open this up to the listeners if they can email us on this one because, you know, I haven't really studied up how to do these cable things.
[47:10.050 --> 47:11.630]  Well, I went to JNR and asked, and they don't know.
[47:11.730 --> 47:12.850]  Yeah, well, I wouldn't expect them to.
[47:14.010 --> 47:18.850]  Again, if our listeners could email us on that, maybe we'll get an answer we can read for you in a future show.
[47:19.190 --> 47:19.510]  Fine.
[47:19.750 --> 47:19.970]  All right.
[47:20.090 --> 47:20.150]  Thank you.
[47:20.630 --> 47:23.250]  Again, our email address, OTH at 2600.com.
[47:23.650 --> 47:24.270]  Let's go over here.
[47:24.350 --> 47:24.630]  Good evening.
[47:24.930 --> 47:25.450]  You're on the air.
[47:26.250 --> 47:26.570]  Hello.
[47:26.850 --> 47:27.210]  How you doing?
[47:28.390 --> 47:30.010]  The guy was talking about...
[47:30.010 --> 47:33.010]  I bought a TV that had a...
[47:34.030 --> 47:35.570]  It was an infrared transmitter.
[47:35.830 --> 47:39.490]  What you would do, you would program your cable box into the TV set.
[47:40.010 --> 47:46.030]  And then the remote control for the TV would send a signal through this infrared transmitter through the cable box and control the cable box remotely.
[47:47.390 --> 47:47.870]  Okay.
[47:47.970 --> 47:49.510]  I had a PCR like that, too.
[47:49.610 --> 47:50.310]  It would actually...
[47:50.770 --> 47:57.870]  I could record through the cable box that way because it would send an infrared signal to the cable box and change through the channel that I wanted to record.
[47:58.550 --> 48:00.470]  So I don't think I could find something like that.
[48:01.910 --> 48:02.430]  What's it called?
[48:02.530 --> 48:03.630]  Just an infrared...
[48:03.630 --> 48:10.430]  I don't know what... I forgot what it was called, but it was like a little infrared transmitter that you would place in front of your cable box.
[48:10.570 --> 48:11.950]  And then, like I said, you could use the remote.
[48:12.050 --> 48:14.530]  Like, I could use the remote on my VCR to control my cable box.
[48:14.650 --> 48:17.930]  It had, like, a whole bunch of different setup codes for that particular cable box.
[48:18.030 --> 48:19.290]  Did it come with the cable box?
[48:19.550 --> 48:19.950]  No, no.
[48:19.970 --> 48:21.770]  It came with the VCR and the TV I bought.
[48:22.010 --> 48:26.590]  I bought, like, a big screen TV, and it had a thing like that with it, too.
[48:26.590 --> 48:32.850]  Now, like I said, you could control the cable box from your television remote, but the remote wasn't controlling it directly.
[48:32.850 --> 48:38.830]  It was going through the television set, and this retransmitter was transmitting through to the cable box and controlled the cable box remotely.
[48:39.290 --> 48:49.450]  It's not immediately clear that this would solve the particular problem that the previous caller asked, because you could still only have one channel at a time.
[48:49.750 --> 48:50.290]  That's true.
[48:50.910 --> 48:52.870]  You guys are talking about all these people that are disappearing, too.
[48:53.630 --> 48:54.070]  Yes.
[48:54.470 --> 48:55.210]  Like, biologists?
[48:55.870 --> 49:01.690]  Probably we shouldn't be talking about VCRs and TV signals that much, but, yeah, people disappearing is a big issue.
[49:02.130 --> 49:04.530]  You're talking about, what, people being imprisoned, and we don't know who they are?
[49:04.550 --> 49:06.450]  No, there's a Harvard biologist that's missing.
[49:06.730 --> 49:10.650]  He was some kind of expert in certain diseases.
[49:10.950 --> 49:16.410]  He was at a conference in Mississippi, and they found his car parked above the Mississippi River, and he disappeared.
[49:16.830 --> 49:17.790]  You're nodding your head, Mike.
[49:17.850 --> 49:18.470]  You know something about this?
[49:18.590 --> 49:19.390]  There was an article...
[49:19.390 --> 49:23.030]  I was in Boston for the holiday, and there was articles about it in the Globe.
[49:23.030 --> 49:28.590]  Also, there's an AOL Time Warner executive in Washington that's missing.
[49:29.250 --> 49:29.690]  Awesome.
[49:30.390 --> 49:33.310]  Well, do you suspect something in particular is going on here?
[49:34.190 --> 49:34.590]  Who knows?
[49:36.570 --> 49:37.450]  Okay, well...
[49:37.450 --> 49:41.730]  Maybe they're being held as suspects, as terrorists and suspects.
[49:41.890 --> 49:44.670]  Well, you know, they could be, because they won't tell us who they're holding.
[49:44.670 --> 49:53.550]  They're holding up to, what, a thousand people now in various prisons, or detention camps, or whatever, and they won't tell us.
[49:53.690 --> 49:54.930]  And this is the amazing thing.
[49:55.010 --> 50:01.150]  They use the fact that it would be violating their privacy to tell us who they are and why they're being held.
[50:01.170 --> 50:03.990]  So these people are being held incognito somewhere.
[50:04.190 --> 50:05.430]  Nobody knows who they are.
[50:05.530 --> 50:06.710]  Nobody knows where they are.
[50:07.050 --> 50:10.470]  And it's for their protection that we don't know anything about them.
[50:10.470 --> 50:11.290]  That's just...
[50:11.290 --> 50:17.950]  It's the kind of double talk that would really make George Orwell jealous, because he didn't include it in one of his books.
[50:18.910 --> 50:19.770]  All right, let's take another phone call.
[50:19.970 --> 50:21.790]  212-209-2900.
[50:21.890 --> 50:22.130]  Good evening.
[50:22.210 --> 50:22.610]  You're on the air.
[50:23.190 --> 50:24.350]  Yes, good evening, Emmanuel.
[50:24.550 --> 50:24.810]  How you doing?
[50:25.790 --> 50:28.970]  Okay, did that guy before say he wanted to hear Larry King specifically?
[50:29.790 --> 50:33.450]  I don't know if it was Larry King specifically, but it was something.
[50:33.810 --> 50:35.110]  Okay, well, never mind with that.
[50:36.270 --> 50:43.170]  Well, I think, just to descend a little bit, ultimately, I think, if there's...
[50:43.170 --> 50:46.010]  an order will eventually impose itself.
[50:46.990 --> 50:51.830]  I'm not very well educated on anarchism, but I don't know what mechanism...
[50:51.830 --> 51:03.490]  well, no mechanism is supposed to exist to allow all bodies and all persons to exist in a state where there's no controlling legal authority, as it were.
[51:05.110 --> 51:06.990]  eventually, there will become an...
[51:06.990 --> 51:09.670]  you know, people will aggregate into some form of power.
[51:09.910 --> 51:22.490]  So you get, for example, like a Jack Valenti, you know, we ensure the artist the right to copyright their work, but nobody respects the copyright until...
[51:23.230 --> 51:28.170]  and I do mean nobody, including people like Jack Valenti, until it comes to the point where it benefits them.
[51:28.170 --> 51:32.030]  And then they'll create this big, overpowering organization to do it.
[51:32.890 --> 51:44.790]  So I think that there's also a problem on the other side of irresponsibility, where people basically say, I want to do what I want to do, I take no responsibility for security of it, or protecting it.
[51:44.990 --> 51:51.890]  And then, you know, we get into a situation where the rights start to get stripped away by powerful organizations.
[51:51.890 --> 51:54.910]  So you think individuals bear some responsibility here?
[51:57.810 --> 51:58.850]  Not totally.
[51:59.430 --> 52:04.290]  But, like, for example, you know, the entertainment industry has no respect for artists either.
[52:05.170 --> 52:07.050]  It doesn't respect their copyrights.
[52:07.070 --> 52:13.710]  However, when it was able to benefit from their copyrights and take them from them, it now protects the copyrights.
[52:13.890 --> 52:26.490]  So, you know, we get into a situation where if we don't protect our own security, we don't all take some responsibility for being responsible in our behavior, somebody will come along and do it for us.
[52:26.890 --> 52:32.790]  And, you know, this situation here, it comes from that.
[52:32.930 --> 52:34.530]  I mean, if you...
[52:35.470 --> 52:42.310]  Like the guy who ran to the airport, I mean, clearly this guy should not pay him millions of dollars for that shutdown.
[52:42.770 --> 52:44.410]  But why...
[52:44.410 --> 52:49.210]  If anybody should be held accountable, it's the security guards that he was able to bypass so easily.
[52:49.590 --> 52:50.210]  You know?
[52:50.210 --> 52:51.530]  Is it really that simple?
[52:51.550 --> 52:52.730]  You walk past them and that's it?
[52:52.810 --> 52:53.790]  You can shut down the whole airport?
[52:54.030 --> 52:54.270]  Yeah.
[52:54.430 --> 52:55.830]  I mean, that's what's horrible.
[52:55.950 --> 53:00.010]  But then you think, I know this guy didn't intend to do anything, but why did he...
[53:00.010 --> 53:02.370]  You know, did he understand the environment we're living in?
[53:02.430 --> 53:03.150]  Obviously not.
[53:03.210 --> 53:07.150]  And I think a lot of people are having trouble grasping just what's going on.
[53:07.250 --> 53:17.250]  And you have to ask yourself, you know, how much sense does it actually make that have crazy restrictions where if you walk past, you know, somebody can go down the up escalator, you know, you're shutting down an airport.
[53:17.410 --> 53:18.690]  Obviously something's wrong with the system.
[53:19.110 --> 53:19.410]  That's true.
[53:19.650 --> 53:21.050]  I'm not really up on that incident.
[53:21.410 --> 53:28.230]  I've never heard a good description of it, but this guy, did he just run away from the desk?
[53:28.450 --> 53:36.850]  From what I understand, from the story I heard, he just left the area and was one of the people that wound up outside not able to get into the airport and had no idea what was going on.
[53:36.910 --> 53:38.530]  Didn't know that he was the one being looked for.
[53:38.810 --> 53:41.530]  And when he found out, he just said, oh, that's me.
[53:41.670 --> 53:43.090]  And that's when they took him away.
[53:43.330 --> 53:49.610]  But you know, this leads me to something else, another question that I have, because this is come up a couple of times.
[53:49.850 --> 53:56.550]  I saw somebody on the news the other day, and they were talking about security, implementing security, and the cost of implementing security.
[53:56.830 --> 54:02.630]  And they just made this off-the-cuff remark that went floating right by everybody, but it kind of knocked me over.
[54:02.710 --> 54:10.910]  They said that they hope one day to be able to afford to get the machinery necessary to screen checked baggage for explosives.
[54:11.370 --> 54:12.730]  Check all, you know, all checked baggage.
[54:12.790 --> 54:14.070]  And I was saying to myself,
[54:18.110 --> 54:19.250]  it has explosives in it.
[54:19.430 --> 54:22.650]  You know, the baggage that you check at the counter.
[54:23.490 --> 54:26.290]  There could be bombs in there and then not checking that.
[54:26.430 --> 54:29.990]  I mean, haven't we already proved that people are willing to blow themselves up in airplanes?
[54:30.170 --> 54:32.870]  So having them match to their baggage doesn't really stop that.
[54:33.070 --> 54:37.070]  Are we really moving forward with all these crazy security plans and leaving that one out?
[54:37.070 --> 54:39.450]  Well, I mean, that was pretty clear up front.
[54:39.450 --> 54:48.210]  They said that if they used every machine and they were all working all the time, they would still only be able to screen 10% of all checked bags.
[54:48.790 --> 54:49.710]  I don't understand.
[54:50.070 --> 54:53.090]  Can't they simply run them through the same machines that...
[54:53.090 --> 54:59.670]  If they ran every machine and tried to do that 24 hours a day, they still could only check a certain percentage.
[54:59.810 --> 55:02.650]  They need 5 and 10 and 20 of these machines.
[55:02.950 --> 55:04.270]  And they each cost a million dollars.
[55:04.350 --> 55:10.130]  Okay, well, then I think that's what we should be focusing on rather than saying if you carry a pen onto an airplane, you're a potential terrorist.
[55:11.050 --> 55:14.410]  I mean, obviously, that is a big security risk right there.
[55:14.410 --> 55:18.830]  If you don't screen baggage for bombs, yeah, it's possible a bomb might get on an airplane.
[55:19.130 --> 55:19.710]  I mean, yeah.
[55:19.830 --> 55:24.390]  I mean, there's always like a co-factor to this.
[55:24.590 --> 55:28.950]  But, you know, most people I don't think are aware that bags aren't checked for explosives.
[55:28.970 --> 55:29.930]  I certainly wasn't.
[55:30.070 --> 55:30.890]  Neither was I.
[55:31.050 --> 55:38.310]  I mean, but the thing is that, then again, I was because my brother used to work in security, but the thing is that there's always a co-factor.
[55:38.450 --> 55:47.370]  There's an industry unwilling to pay for this and was willing to make its security force the lowest level of its operation.
[55:47.790 --> 55:53.470]  You know, but we really can't lay it all on the individuals because, you know...
[55:53.470 --> 55:57.870]  But another thing, just quickly, it isn't just people willing to blow themselves up.
[55:57.990 --> 56:04.710]  One of the biggest infiltrations of security was people who were willing to put something in someone's bag.
[56:05.390 --> 56:06.310]  The biggest...
[56:06.310 --> 56:13.530]  One of the biggest things that the terrorists got into in the 80s was, you know, they would date somebody and put something in their bag.
[56:13.530 --> 56:16.510]  Yeah, that's what happened to Flight 103, Panem Flight 103.
[56:16.670 --> 56:21.270]  Yeah, I mean, it's obvious that people are willing to go to these extreme measures.
[56:21.390 --> 56:29.450]  And I think now that we've seen this established, we should take, you know, security measures to make sure that, you know, that risk is reduced.
[56:30.030 --> 56:37.330]  Instead, we're jumping into simply curtailing people's right of expression, stopping people from carrying suspicious-looking books.
[56:37.370 --> 56:41.550]  But then you have the glaring holes that you could drive a truck through almost literally.
[56:42.370 --> 56:43.950]  And that just continues.
[56:44.210 --> 56:45.090]  I'm amazed by that.
[56:45.190 --> 56:46.630]  Let's see if we can take one more phone call.
[56:46.870 --> 56:47.410]  Good evening.
[56:47.530 --> 56:47.890]  You're on the air.
[56:49.330 --> 56:49.730]  Yeah.
[56:50.030 --> 56:50.290]  Go ahead.
[56:51.230 --> 56:54.470]  Hey, that's RadioWorld.ca?
[56:54.790 --> 56:55.030]  Mm-hmm.
[56:55.390 --> 56:57.370]  What city and province is that?
[56:57.630 --> 56:58.810]  You know, I'm not sure.
[56:59.090 --> 57:01.430]  When I went to Radio World, I think it was in Ontario.
[57:02.150 --> 57:04.850]  So, you might check...
[57:04.850 --> 57:05.630]  Any chance...
[57:05.630 --> 57:06.730]  I don't have a computer.
[57:06.910 --> 57:09.250]  Do you, by any chance, have a number, phone number?
[57:09.430 --> 57:12.910]  No, call 416-555-1212.
[57:12.910 --> 57:14.470]  That's Toronto Information.
[57:14.690 --> 57:15.590]  Just ask for Radio World.
[57:15.670 --> 57:17.670]  I'm sure you'll get a branch of their store up there.
[57:18.270 --> 57:18.430]  Okay.
[57:18.450 --> 57:24.170]  And for the guy with his VCR troubles, I recommend an older VCR that...
[57:25.510 --> 57:28.710]  Electronically, I suppose they're bulletproof.
[57:29.030 --> 57:31.170]  Mostly, it's just a mechanical problem.
[57:31.170 --> 57:36.250]  A belt or an idler that needs replacing he can get around his little problem.
[57:36.630 --> 57:37.010]  Okay.
[57:37.110 --> 57:46.250]  And another thing that you can always do is talk to technical support in various manufacturers and even technical support at your cable company.
[57:46.330 --> 57:47.130]  They might be able to help.
[57:47.210 --> 57:47.550]  Who knows?
[57:48.210 --> 57:50.930]  Anyway, that's our show for this week.
[57:50.950 --> 58:00.350]  I'm sure we'll have more to talk about next week as far as more stupidity and more craziness as far as rights being taken away.
[58:00.930 --> 58:02.170]  Until then, Emmanuel Goldstein.
[58:02.250 --> 58:02.450]  Good night.
[58:29.230 --> 58:33.070]  over the stage.
[58:34.130 --> 58:46.630]  While we're used to talk where we've been starved
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[01:00:53.600 --> 01:00:55.780]  99.5 on the FM dial.
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