[00:02.570 --> 00:07.490]  They go directly to people who have things to say, who will have things to say in the future.
[00:07.790 --> 00:16.930]  And the fact that they're being done the way they are, and the fact that they're being done by people who really care about what's going on in America, is, I believe, is going to make a difference.
[00:17.790 --> 00:22.350]  And it's not a small thing that's happening there, and I'm very happy to see it happen.
[00:22.550 --> 00:26.130]  That was Neil Adams, speaking on an early episode of Nuff Said.
[00:26.130 --> 00:32.930]  To hear thought-provoking and entertaining discussion on the subject of comics, tune in every Tuesday night at 10 p.m.
[00:33.210 --> 00:38.330]  for Nuff Said, here on WBAI New York, 99.5 FM.
[00:38.690 --> 00:43.110]  And visit our website, nuffsaid.net, for our upcoming schedule of guests.
[00:43.710 --> 00:44.610]  See you there.
[00:49.610 --> 00:53.150]  And tonight's upcoming schedule of guests is Jules Pfeiffer.
[00:55.250 --> 00:57.030]  That's coming up at 9 o'clock.
[00:57.330 --> 00:58.850]  This, 10 o'clock.
[00:58.850 --> 01:00.350]  This is coming up at midnight, though.
[01:01.610 --> 01:02.110]  Moorish.
[01:03.630 --> 01:04.510]  Orthodox.
[01:06.070 --> 01:06.950]  Radio.
[01:08.630 --> 01:09.510]  Crusade.
[01:11.670 --> 01:13.730]  Anarchism for the global city.
[01:14.290 --> 01:17.290]  Radical environmentalism for the concrete jungle.
[01:17.950 --> 01:21.910]  Esoteric explorations of the secret history of rebel culture.
[01:22.270 --> 01:25.190]  The Moorish Orthodox Radio Crusade.
[01:25.450 --> 01:28.090]  Every Tuesday at midnight after the news.
[01:28.090 --> 01:35.210]  Only on listener-supported, non-commercial, WBAI 99.5 FM in New York City.
[01:36.550 --> 01:37.790]  Be there.
[01:51.800 --> 01:56.840]  And it's just about 8 o'clock here on WBAI in New York.
[01:57.200 --> 02:00.440]  And that means it's time for Off the Hook.
[02:02.500 --> 02:05.400]  Now, let's do it this way this week.
[02:10.620 --> 02:15.180]  Come gather round, people, wherever you roam.
[02:15.740 --> 02:20.600]  And admit that the waters around you have grown.
[02:20.680 --> 02:25.160]  And accept it that soon you'll be drenched to the bone.
[02:26.920 --> 02:35.940]  If your time to you is worth saving, then you better start swimming or you'll sink like a stone.
[02:35.940 --> 02:40.180]  For the times, they are a-changin'.
[02:47.980 --> 02:52.520]  I'm writers and critics who'll prophesize with your pen.
[02:53.200 --> 02:57.420]  And keep your eyes wide, the chance won't come again.
[02:57.760 --> 03:01.620]  And don't speak too soon, for the wheel's still in spin.
[03:01.620 --> 03:07.100]  And there's no tellin' who that it's namin'.
[03:07.100 --> 03:11.400]  For the loser now will be later to win.
[03:11.740 --> 03:15.620]  For the times, they are a-changin'.
[03:27.220 --> 03:31.680]  Come, senators, congressmen, please heed the call.
[03:32.560 --> 03:36.960]  Don't stand in the doorway, don't block up the hall.
[03:37.220 --> 03:41.360]  For he that gets hurt will be he who has stalled.
[03:41.600 --> 03:46.600]  They battle outside, ragin'.
[03:46.600 --> 03:50.800]  We'll sing, shake your windows, and rattle your walls.
[03:51.040 --> 03:55.240]  For the times, they are a-changin'.
[04:01.240 --> 04:05.480]  Mothers and fathers, throughout the land.
[04:06.300 --> 04:10.420]  And don't criticize what you can't understand.
[04:10.420 --> 04:14.780]  Your sons and your daughters are beyond your command.
[04:15.520 --> 04:19.420]  Your old road is rapidly agin'.
[04:20.100 --> 04:24.150]  Please get out of the new one if you can't lend your hand.
[04:24.150 --> 04:28.790]  Oh, the times, they are a-changin'.
[04:46.080 --> 04:50.820]  The line, it is drawn, the curse, it is cast.
[04:51.400 --> 04:56.000]  The slow one now will later be fast.
[04:56.060 --> 05:00.000]  As the present now will later be past.
[05:00.000 --> 05:05.040]  The order is rapidly agin'.
[05:05.040 --> 05:09.580]  And the first one now will later be last.
[05:09.740 --> 05:13.640]  For the times, they are a-changin'.
[05:24.060 --> 05:38.160]  And, yeah, for those of you who have not been listening to the radio station over the past couple of days, you might not know what that's all about, but that's what this hour is going to be about, about the changes that have occurred here, the changes that are in store in the future,
[05:38.400 --> 05:44.760]  and what we've been through over the past year and month, and actually longer than that as well.
[05:45.660 --> 05:49.160]  Anthony is here, and he's got something he's going to introduce to us.
[05:50.420 --> 05:51.280]  So, hey, Emmanuel.
[05:51.960 --> 05:55.900]  Thank you so much for having me on your fine program.
[05:56.020 --> 05:57.860]  I like to say that, you know, it's like radio talk.
[05:58.000 --> 06:02.580]  Yeah, and those of you who know radio would know that many things are going on at the same time, usually.
[06:02.740 --> 06:04.560]  And right now, in my ear, I'm hearing...
[06:04.960 --> 06:05.920]  Oh, I was hearing.
[06:06.120 --> 06:06.860]  Okay, never mind.
[06:07.200 --> 06:07.720]  Don't worry about that.
[06:07.940 --> 06:08.060]  I just turned it off.
[06:08.340 --> 06:09.840]  But I was hearing this crazy repeating...
[06:09.840 --> 06:18.020]  But anyway, the people that held the station down for the last year, and that's a pun.
[06:19.140 --> 06:19.820]  I'm sorry.
[06:20.060 --> 06:21.120]  I'm not good at jokes.
[06:22.140 --> 06:27.120]  You know, to the last gasp, they tried to do something.
[06:27.300 --> 06:29.520]  And so on Monday, when Democracy Now!
[06:29.540 --> 06:33.840]  was supposed to play from at nine o'clock, they didn't play it at exactly nine o'clock.
[06:34.120 --> 06:37.420]  They waited until well after the first music break.
[06:37.540 --> 06:38.300]  Now, Democracy Now!
[06:38.320 --> 06:40.060]  let's be very... I'll try to be very brief.
[06:40.220 --> 06:43.080]  We have three music breaks, and that's the only time I get to do my thing.
[06:43.260 --> 06:46.740]  I'm what's called the engineer and the music maestro they've dubbed me.
[06:47.280 --> 06:52.640]  And what my job is to take these musical bridges and bridge the sections, the segments together.
[06:53.260 --> 07:08.020]  And so we had Jay Smooth of the Underground Railroad, which comes on Saturday late nights and midnight, or actually Sunday morning, midnight to 2 a.m., gather some sound from the board meeting of what we call the band and the fired at that particular time.
[07:08.160 --> 07:16.080]  Well, they were unbanded fired at that particular time, and he gave it to our producer, one of the producers of democracy, Miranda Kennedy, and she edited it down.
[07:16.260 --> 07:25.420]  And then I took a mix of a Prince song, and we created this thing that we did at the six minutes after break at nine o'clock.
[07:25.680 --> 07:28.280]  But the forces then held the station down.
[07:29.000 --> 07:32.340]  You know, chose not to put the thing on at that time.
[07:32.460 --> 07:37.760]  Since I've learned that it did play at five o'clock yesterday, and I played it on the morning show.
[07:37.880 --> 07:39.940]  But you know, like radio, everybody doesn't listen all the time.
[07:40.040 --> 07:43.620]  So I just want to give you a flavor of what we did in Democracy Now!
[07:43.620 --> 07:47.640]  Then you'll, after that, you'll hear Amy's voice and you can bail out any time after that, all right?
[07:47.640 --> 07:51.620]  I think this will give us a flavor as to just what's been missing from these airwaves for the past year.
[07:51.820 --> 07:53.000]  Oh, excellent miss.
[07:53.140 --> 07:56.760]  I, you know, us radio people have to pat ourselves on an excellent miss if I may see so myself.
[07:56.900 --> 07:57.240]  Here we go.
[08:00.540 --> 08:01.660]  The thing didn't work.
[08:16.110 --> 08:17.830]  Love come quick.
[08:19.890 --> 08:22.410]  Love come in a hurry.
[08:23.150 --> 08:27.210]  There are themes in the temple tonight.
[08:28.650 --> 08:29.970]  My name is Janice K.
[08:30.070 --> 08:30.290]  Bryan.
[08:30.490 --> 08:32.430]  I'm Amy Goodman, host of Democracy Now!
[08:32.450 --> 08:34.230]  and co-host of Wake Up Call.
[08:34.230 --> 08:35.230]  This is Mike Fader.
[08:35.570 --> 08:36.870]  This is Bernard White Monroe.
[08:37.110 --> 08:39.990]  This is Dred Scott Keyes, WBI 99.5.
[08:40.150 --> 08:40.630]  What's up, y'all?
[08:40.790 --> 08:41.990]  It's home sweet home.
[08:42.030 --> 08:43.610]  And it's all because of the listeners.
[08:43.910 --> 08:44.970]  The train is moving.
[08:45.170 --> 08:47.210]  We will be in the station soon.
[08:47.410 --> 08:49.190]  I feel it coming up from the underground.
[08:49.510 --> 08:50.870]  I can feel my freedom coming.
[08:51.130 --> 08:52.630]  Like an underground yellow rose.
[08:52.630 --> 08:56.470]  I can hang when you're around.
[08:56.510 --> 08:58.350]  But I surely die.
[08:58.790 --> 09:00.150]  If you're not there.
[09:01.150 --> 09:02.750]  Love come quick.
[09:04.230 --> 09:07.310]  Love come in a hurry.
[09:08.030 --> 09:12.010]  There are themes in the temple tonight.
[09:15.400 --> 09:18.320]  I feel like they're looking for my soul.
[09:18.600 --> 09:22.020]  Like a poor man looking for gold.
[09:22.020 --> 09:27.180]  There are themes in the temple tonight.
[09:29.840 --> 09:31.440]  The eaves in the temple.
[09:32.900 --> 09:34.100]  By Prince.
[09:34.500 --> 09:36.600]  Here on the War and Peace Report.
[09:36.900 --> 09:38.000]  I'm Amy Goodman.
[09:38.280 --> 09:41.820]  Well, the independent media movement has won a major victory.
[09:42.060 --> 09:52.560]  This weekend, the Interim National Board of the Pacifica Radio Foundation voted to restore dozens of fired and banned producers to New York Station WBAI.
[09:52.660 --> 09:54.960]  The board also chose Dan Coughlin.
[09:54.960 --> 09:59.080]  Okay, and that's pretty much what we're talking about tonight and what we're focusing on.
[09:59.100 --> 10:02.320]  But I want to bring people back to that moment over this weekend.
[10:02.620 --> 10:11.360]  This weekend was one of the most incredible weekends I think I've ever seen where basically hundreds and hundreds of people came together for the national board meeting.
[10:11.360 --> 10:13.840]  The first one to take place in New York in a very long time.
[10:14.280 --> 10:16.320]  We announced it last week on the radio.
[10:16.560 --> 10:19.760]  And last week at this time, this place is a very different place.
[10:21.100 --> 10:23.960]  Today, it just seems to be back to the way it was.
[10:24.080 --> 10:25.040]  It seems to be a happy place.
[10:25.120 --> 10:26.060]  A lot of people around.
[10:26.580 --> 10:29.680]  A lot of reunions, I guess, going on.
[10:29.680 --> 10:35.860]  But that was all made possible by what the national board did this weekend in New York.
[10:36.900 --> 10:45.800]  I'm going to take you back to a point where there was a vote on an eight point proposal by a committee that was studying the whole WBAI situation.
[10:46.280 --> 10:57.740]  A couple of key points there were the firing of the current general manager, not current anymore, and the restoration of the fired and banned among other things.
[10:57.740 --> 11:05.600]  And what you're about to hear now is the roll call vote and the crowd reaction.
[11:06.260 --> 11:08.120]  Are there other comments on the eight points?
[11:08.340 --> 11:10.060]  I move that we call for the vote.
[11:10.400 --> 11:10.800]  Okay.
[11:11.040 --> 11:11.940]  A call for the vote.
[11:12.020 --> 11:12.260]  Second.
[11:12.400 --> 11:14.680]  Is everybody ready to vote?
[11:14.820 --> 11:16.820]  Is anybody objecting to calling the question?
[11:17.040 --> 11:17.500]  No.
[11:17.680 --> 11:17.880]  Okay.
[11:18.200 --> 11:21.540]  So, again, I just want to be thorough and clear.
[11:21.540 --> 11:23.100]  I know the clock is ticking.
[11:24.720 --> 11:26.420]  Mimi is dying over here.
[11:26.840 --> 11:27.060]  Okay.
[11:28.720 --> 11:30.700]  Again, on the motion.
[11:30.820 --> 11:33.200]  The motion is to accept all eight recommendations.
[11:34.220 --> 11:40.100]  With the amendments that were made, with the modifications that were made before, there were two modifications.
[11:40.680 --> 11:41.680]  Roll call vote.
[11:42.400 --> 11:43.420]  Theresa Allen.
[11:44.940 --> 11:46.280]  Yes, Madam Chair.
[11:46.700 --> 11:47.080]  Yes.
[11:47.680 --> 11:48.880]  George Barnstone.
[11:49.480 --> 11:50.560]  Yes, my friend Leslie.
[11:52.480 --> 11:53.680]  Marion Barry.
[11:53.880 --> 11:54.900]  No, my friend Leslie.
[11:57.060 --> 11:58.280]  Peter Branson.
[11:58.740 --> 11:59.420]  Yes.
[11:59.720 --> 12:00.380]  Janice K.
[12:00.520 --> 12:00.800]  Bryan.
[12:01.020 --> 12:01.140]  Yes.
[12:01.720 --> 12:02.640]  James Ferguson.
[12:03.420 --> 12:03.860]  No.
[12:04.080 --> 12:05.040]  David Furtick.
[12:05.380 --> 12:05.620]  Yes.
[12:06.500 --> 12:07.980]  Ray LaFarge.
[12:08.120 --> 12:08.400]  Yes.
[12:09.200 --> 12:09.920]  Bert Lee.
[12:10.720 --> 12:11.860]  Rob Robinson.
[12:12.240 --> 12:12.340]  Yes.
[12:12.860 --> 12:13.880]  Carol Spooner.
[12:14.120 --> 12:14.240]  Yes.
[12:14.800 --> 12:15.980]  Jabari Zakiya.
[12:16.180 --> 12:16.540]  CCC.
[12:16.940 --> 12:19.180]  And myself, Leslie Kagan.
[12:19.340 --> 12:19.520]  Yes.
[13:00.660 --> 13:01.620]  Okay.
[13:02.080 --> 13:03.340]  That brings it all back.
[13:11.970 --> 13:17.430]  And that voice comes from Errol Maitland, who has not been in this studio for quite some time, but he's here now.
[13:17.630 --> 13:18.490]  Errol, welcome back.
[13:18.490 --> 13:20.890]  Well, thank you very much.
[13:21.090 --> 13:30.270]  You know, I said that I may have left this facility, but what we took with us was the real WBAI.
[13:30.390 --> 13:36.830]  And for the last eight months or so, every day I say you're listening to WBAI radio.
[13:37.270 --> 13:39.790]  Only we were in exile.
[13:40.270 --> 13:41.870]  Hence WBIX.
[13:42.210 --> 13:42.770]  That's right.
[13:42.990 --> 13:45.210]  Which means WBAI in exile.
[13:45.210 --> 13:50.550]  And pardon me if it doesn't sound that way to you, it's my ability to spell.
[13:52.150 --> 13:53.590]  Or is it my inability?
[13:54.070 --> 14:02.670]  You know, Emmanuel, you said something that I think I need to not necessarily put a correction on, but to amplify it.
[14:03.230 --> 14:07.550]  The board didn't allow us to come back in here.
[14:07.550 --> 14:17.510]  You, Emmanuel, Mimi Rosenberg, and the listeners out there allowed us to come back in this space.
[14:18.270 --> 14:26.570]  I've always felt that the power of the people who listen to WBAI could move and change the world.
[14:26.570 --> 14:29.230]  I had that faith and confidence in them.
[14:29.410 --> 14:34.450]  Some of them were mean, arrogant, nasty.
[14:34.910 --> 14:36.410]  I mean, you name it.
[14:36.530 --> 14:42.390]  But when they put their minds and hearts together, these people, they are determined.
[14:42.390 --> 15:00.410]  And I believe that the hijackers, the interlopers, the people at the CPB, the CIA, Voice of America, in the Congress, they met the force of the people who listens to WBAI.
[15:01.270 --> 15:12.230]  They could have gone ahead and they could have stolen this network and they could have gotten away with it.
[15:12.330 --> 15:23.090]  Except that they came to New York and messed with this radio station at a time when people were mad.
[15:23.090 --> 15:35.850]  You know, you don't come and steal a radio station in New York when it's Hanukkah, Ramadan, Christmas, Kwanzaa, and expect people not to react to the Grinches.
[15:36.150 --> 15:39.830]  And people got mad and they wanted their radio station back.
[15:40.010 --> 15:44.870]  And they did not cease until they got it back.
[15:45.110 --> 15:54.230]  You know, Errol and Emmanuel, one of the things that I found really that they didn't anticipate, I'll give you because I was on the Democracy Now!
[15:54.330 --> 15:54.550]  crew.
[15:54.930 --> 15:56.870]  When they suspended Democracy Now!
[15:57.590 --> 16:03.570]  in August of last year, they figured, oh, nobody's getting paid to spend us without pay.
[16:03.750 --> 16:07.430]  Well, they'll just go slinking off because that's the way they think.
[16:07.570 --> 16:10.270]  They didn't realize, pay, what's that?
[16:12.190 --> 16:14.770]  And that's what impressed me most about Democracy Now!
[16:14.810 --> 16:14.970]  crew.
[16:15.230 --> 16:16.430]  We just went on.
[16:16.610 --> 16:20.070]  In fact, at one point, we even went to South Africa.
[16:20.070 --> 16:21.630]  Nobody sponsored us.
[16:21.810 --> 16:27.930]  We took vacation, went to South Africa, reported every day, two hours a day, the stuff that was going on in Durban.
[16:28.450 --> 16:32.630]  And here you are, a big organization, couldn't get it together enough to report themselves.
[16:32.770 --> 16:36.290]  So we were reporting and we were working throughout the time without any pay.
[16:36.330 --> 16:37.730]  And that impressed me the most.
[16:37.810 --> 16:41.810]  I think it's part of the fact that it became a big organization.
[16:42.190 --> 16:47.590]  You know, that's exactly what prevented us from doing these things, that we kind of lost our way, I guess.
[16:47.790 --> 16:57.290]  We couldn't see that it was all about radio, about volunteering your time, about working as hard as you possibly can because you want to do it, not because you're trying to make money at it or anything like that.
[16:57.430 --> 17:01.130]  And that's why Errol's WBIX was kicking our ass program-wise.
[17:01.570 --> 17:03.670]  We're talking about an internet radio station.
[17:04.070 --> 17:05.330]  Errol, how did you put that together?
[17:05.330 --> 17:14.790]  Well, you see, after the New York City Police Department sent me on vacation, I was sitting home literally dying.
[17:14.970 --> 17:20.010]  And one of the things that I couldn't do when I was here at BAI was get a decent computer.
[17:20.890 --> 17:31.170]  And so I decided as part of my rehabilitation, I was going to build myself an audio server and a digital editing machine.
[17:31.170 --> 17:36.950]  And so I went out and at that time bought the best CPU I could, an Athlon 850.
[17:37.390 --> 17:43.630]  And I bought 120 meg of hard drive capacity and all the memory I could buy.
[17:43.910 --> 17:48.770]  And I slapped this box together and it was ready to go.
[17:49.390 --> 18:11.990]  And so, you know, when Sharan Harper and other people, you know, when folks in the community who listens to WBI, as a matter of fact, from Long Island says, hey, the wake up call crew, why don't you guys make a tape and sell it to, and we'll go out and sell it and raise money for the fired in the band.
[18:12.330 --> 18:21.230]  And then the local advisory board decided that, gee, they need to do something to raise some money for yet another lawsuit against Pacifica.
[18:22.290 --> 18:25.210]  We say, hey, okay, we're in exile.
[18:26.710 --> 18:28.050]  Let's do a benefit.
[18:29.310 --> 18:31.570]  And let's broadcast it.
[18:31.670 --> 18:34.150]  And the folks from the IMC said, we have the technology.
[18:34.550 --> 18:36.150]  We went up to the IMC.
[18:36.290 --> 18:37.190]  You know where that is, right?
[18:37.390 --> 18:37.990]  In New York?
[18:38.010 --> 18:38.690]  That's our office, yeah.
[18:39.310 --> 18:39.710]  Okay.
[18:39.930 --> 18:44.210]  Some folks might not be, you know, like, what's IMC stand for?
[18:44.210 --> 18:45.870]  In the Independent Media Center.
[18:46.110 --> 18:58.870]  And we went in there, and we sat down, and we, you know, created the domain, and we, you know, came back, got the program in, and went to good old crappy, that's the name of the computer.
[18:59.110 --> 19:12.590]  And we set it up, and we went to the theater for the new city, and we got a telephone company to get us some phone lines in there, because they'd given us the space, and we, and we just, we, and we did it.
[19:12.850 --> 19:13.090]  Mm-hmm.
[19:13.690 --> 19:18.390]  And every day, people would come in and do radio there, because they weren't allowed to do radio here.
[19:18.510 --> 19:21.210]  And we would do it from wherever we could.
[19:21.550 --> 19:21.630]  Mm-hmm.
[19:21.630 --> 19:25.550]  We moved, we moved around, and we're still moving around.
[19:25.690 --> 19:26.490]  And got a bus.
[19:26.690 --> 19:27.750]  We even, yeah.
[19:27.750 --> 19:27.850]  Yeah.
[19:28.210 --> 19:33.750]  And we did radio from all the, all, all over the country, all over the city of New York.
[19:33.910 --> 19:36.890]  The voice you just heard is that of Mimi Rosenberg, who also was...
[19:36.890 --> 19:39.630]  I was the technological genius behind all this.
[19:40.130 --> 19:42.450]  I learned how to send email last week.
[19:42.450 --> 19:43.290]  I'm very impressed.
[19:43.350 --> 19:44.890]  Now, you're one of the fired in the band.
[19:45.030 --> 19:48.130]  Oh, fired band, despised and hated, yes, yes.
[19:48.990 --> 20:07.770]  Actually, exactly on Martin Luther King's birthday last year, I was, that was the last program I did at WBAI, and I'd like to think that it was appropriate at that time to have done an expose on the forces that were expropriating this radio network.
[20:07.770 --> 20:09.490]  We were successful.
[20:09.850 --> 20:12.410]  We were generating dissent.
[20:12.550 --> 20:18.850]  We were fomenting dissent and revolution and tilting against the status quo.
[20:19.010 --> 20:21.870]  And we were hated for that, and we were dangerous for that.
[20:21.870 --> 20:28.810]  So one group of opportunists wanted to take us over for possible sale, another to destroy us.
[20:29.210 --> 20:29.810]  Mm-hmm.
[20:29.830 --> 20:33.310]  Or to use the media and recast it in its own image.
[20:33.450 --> 20:41.430]  And we just won the largest media battle in the history, really, of this country for progressive people.
[20:41.430 --> 20:43.150]  We didn't win our radio station.
[20:43.310 --> 20:44.790]  We won back a network.
[20:45.290 --> 20:45.770]  Think of it.
[20:46.110 --> 20:48.910]  Los Angeles, second largest city in the country.
[20:49.330 --> 20:50.910]  Houston, home of the death penalty.
[20:51.490 --> 20:54.070]  Washington, the belly of the beast.
[20:54.290 --> 20:55.770]  And New York, the belly of capital.
[20:55.770 --> 21:00.890]  We have now linked them together, potentially, in progressive revolutionist thought.
[21:01.690 --> 21:03.850]  We, not to mention the affiliates.
[21:04.630 --> 21:15.150]  The new news that had been done by people who were pushed out and exiled as well is now on 50 affiliate stations, more than the national news that Pacifica has ever been on.
[21:15.330 --> 21:24.570]  The potential to radicalize this country in the face of globalized and homogenized media is ours for the taking now.
[21:24.570 --> 21:44.970]  It is monumental, the potential that awaits us, not to mention the extension and that kind of annex of radio in exile, which has to be a training ground, a way of bringing people into this process of creating radio, this fabulous, fascinating, exciting medium.
[21:45.430 --> 21:49.210]  So it's, really, it's jubilation, you know?
[21:49.430 --> 21:52.270]  Mumia, you got a network now, you know?
[21:52.270 --> 21:54.670]  We won't have another Shaka Sankofa.
[21:54.790 --> 22:03.170]  We're not going to lose the brother next time because we have a way of propagandizing around the issues of the death penalty, of poverty.
[22:03.170 --> 22:04.610]  Or unpropagandizing.
[22:05.310 --> 22:05.470]  Yeah.
[22:06.070 --> 22:19.430]  You know, Emmanuel, when we talk about the power of this network and also linking it up with the internet and the stuff that you do, I'm sure I haven't told you this, but then again, I'm not so sure.
[22:20.150 --> 22:31.810]  We were in Houston after the last board meeting when, you know, when the hijackers felt they were at their strength and we demoralized them and Janice K.
[22:31.950 --> 22:32.270]  Bryant.
[22:32.570 --> 22:35.370]  Is that when I restrained you from getting arrested again?
[22:36.090 --> 22:36.610]  Yes.
[22:37.470 --> 22:38.350]  I just want to be clear.
[22:38.350 --> 22:39.390]  We shut the meeting.
[22:39.650 --> 22:44.890]  I was just having a flashback moment, seeing all those, seeing all those cops at a Pacifica board meeting.
[22:44.890 --> 22:45.570]  Nice hats, huh?
[22:45.730 --> 22:46.450]  Nice hats.
[22:46.490 --> 22:47.270]  Board meeting, really.
[22:47.490 --> 22:47.830]  Texas hats.
[22:48.170 --> 22:49.290]  Freaked me out.
[22:49.430 --> 22:49.830]  When was this?
[22:49.890 --> 22:50.850]  Is this October or whenever?
[22:50.990 --> 22:51.790]  It was in March.
[22:52.250 --> 22:52.610]  March.
[22:52.790 --> 22:53.410]  In Houston.
[22:53.810 --> 22:54.410]  In Houston, March.
[22:54.670 --> 22:57.650]  The only thing I know, I came back to New York and there was a snowstorm.
[22:58.470 --> 23:01.510]  But while we were on the sidewalk of C.B.
[23:01.690 --> 23:07.690]  Richard Ellis, we're one of the, Michael Parma, who have always advocated the sales of WBAI.
[23:07.830 --> 23:13.310]  And let me tell you how significant that is and what we wrested away from them.
[23:13.510 --> 23:21.890]  We wrested away half a billion dollars worth of resources that they wanted to divide up to themselves.
[23:21.890 --> 23:29.830]  We were out there in Houston protesting and starting to stop people on the street.
[23:30.270 --> 23:35.990]  And this one guy came up, you know, passed by and says, yeah, I know all about what's going on.
[23:36.410 --> 23:39.230]  I know all about the struggle at WBAI.
[23:39.590 --> 23:40.770]  And I said, how?
[23:41.030 --> 23:43.730]  I listened to the 2600 Club on the computer.
[23:44.230 --> 23:44.390]  Wow.
[23:45.990 --> 23:53.270]  You know, I wonder, and many people have asked me how we managed to stay on the air for the last year ourselves, our particular radio program.
[23:53.290 --> 23:55.250]  Emmanuel, how did you manage to stay on the air?
[23:55.250 --> 23:56.130]  And they just keep asking.
[23:56.370 --> 24:05.490]  And I think one of the reasons why is because we provided that stream, which, of course, is a valuable resource to everybody, no matter what side of this conflict you are on.
[24:05.990 --> 24:12.990]  But also, I think there's something to be said for the fear of hackers, not wanting to get on our bad side.
[24:13.210 --> 24:14.170]  I don't know.
[24:14.470 --> 24:24.670]  But whatever it is, you know, we were able to stay here and do our, you know, somewhat subversive things, such as raise 10 grand for the lawsuit, which, thank God, there was a lawsuit.
[24:24.670 --> 24:28.470]  Because if there was not that lawsuit, I don't know how we would have won in court.
[24:28.710 --> 24:31.750]  You know, we would have had plenty of demonstrations and things like that, which is great.
[24:31.870 --> 24:35.570]  But to actually get the board to do this, that took...
[24:35.570 --> 24:49.630]  Well, don't forget, the lawsuit in conjunction with the power of the people and a mass movement, they were handmaidens that worked together and, you know, proved that the people's power is still mightier than the man's technology.
[24:49.630 --> 24:51.670]  You push the, you know, it's their system.
[24:51.910 --> 24:56.930]  You push the system from the outside and you work on it from the inside, there's no place they can retreat to.
[24:57.250 --> 24:57.810]  Mm-hmm.
[24:58.070 --> 25:02.510]  Look, these guys, these guys were trying to surrender.
[25:02.790 --> 25:04.410]  Speaking of, speaking about...
[25:04.410 --> 25:05.090]  Guys and gals.
[25:05.230 --> 25:05.470]  Yeah.
[25:06.550 --> 25:07.070]  Well...
[25:07.070 --> 25:09.890]  Mary Francis Berry, the Democratic Leadership Council.
[25:09.890 --> 25:11.670]  Well, I haven't examined to see...
[25:11.670 --> 25:12.070]  Part of the hijackers.
[25:12.110 --> 25:15.250]  But in any case, let me be...
[25:15.250 --> 25:18.290]  Harold, that radio program's on later in the evening.
[25:18.290 --> 25:19.890]  Let me behave myself.
[25:20.630 --> 25:25.530]  But, you know, when I, you know, and I was trying to recuperate, so I was down in Florida.
[25:26.330 --> 25:27.210]  86 degrees.
[25:27.970 --> 25:36.350]  I got a phone call that they were going to do some negotiations and I should go to Washington, D.C.
[25:36.570 --> 25:37.950]  I got to Washington, D.C.
[25:37.970 --> 25:42.030]  It was 20 degrees and it was snowing and I had no winter coat.
[25:42.030 --> 25:46.830]  But, when we went there, you know these guys were demoralized.
[25:47.010 --> 25:48.530]  You know they were willing to surrender.
[25:48.750 --> 25:57.270]  During the time they were taking my deposition in New York and I was like, you know, having chest pains, having a fever.
[25:57.270 --> 26:04.070]  However, De La Temchin, the attorney for Epstein, Becker, and Greed.
[26:05.010 --> 26:06.150]  The opposition.
[26:06.250 --> 26:06.710]  The opposition.
[26:07.310 --> 26:07.930]  The hijackers.
[26:07.930 --> 26:08.950]  The hijackers.
[26:09.070 --> 26:11.390]  They wanted to know one thing.
[26:11.390 --> 26:19.110]  Why is it Amy Goodman just don't stop saying from the studios of the fired and the band.
[26:19.370 --> 26:21.750]  And, you know, these guys, they're kicking our butt.
[26:21.890 --> 26:34.890]  Because they're saying, but after they were finished with the deposition and we were off the record, you know, started going through a photo album that they've created of what was going on.
[26:34.890 --> 26:47.090]  And the guy turned around and says, that interview that Amy Goodman did with Bill Clinton was one of the best things ever heard on radio.
[26:47.470 --> 26:56.210]  I mean, you know by that time these guys were defeated and all the people had to do was keep it up and they were going crazy.
[26:56.210 --> 27:06.750]  In the final analysis, they said that BAI and Pacifica was a cancer that they wanted to get rid of.
[27:06.850 --> 27:10.910]  So we have now some three, maybe four million dollars in debt.
[27:11.490 --> 27:17.450]  It is a small resources to pay to get half a billion dollars back.
[27:17.610 --> 27:21.450]  Now that debt is because of the spending that the old Pacifica board was doing.
[27:21.450 --> 27:23.690]  Primarily three sources, actually.
[27:24.030 --> 27:25.990]  It was mostly for the legal bills.
[27:26.150 --> 27:28.950]  It's actually two point eight million dollars, almost three million.
[27:29.130 --> 27:36.550]  Most of it for the lawyers that they hired to defeat the movement to return the network to the communities and the people that created it.
[27:36.670 --> 27:44.070]  And also some high powered, but not terribly effective white shoe kind of PR agents, etc.
[27:44.250 --> 27:49.130]  We accomplish more, you know, I've really become in awe of the Internet.
[27:49.130 --> 27:51.670]  We didn't have the radio.
[27:51.850 --> 27:56.670]  We had WBIX and we had email system and the Internet websites.
[27:57.010 --> 28:03.810]  And they had this multi-billion dollar firm that was Clinton's personal PR firm.
[28:03.990 --> 28:05.930]  And they couldn't do it.
[28:06.050 --> 28:15.570]  The email serverless, we were able to generate thousands of people in any one city at any one time just through the Internet.
[28:15.570 --> 28:18.330]  I mean, the potential was enormous.
[28:18.330 --> 28:23.530]  I don't even think we began to realize it until we were immersed in it ourselves.
[28:23.530 --> 28:25.450]  Yeah, the net is what won this battle.
[28:25.590 --> 28:26.390]  I'm convinced of that myself.
[28:26.810 --> 28:26.830]  No question.
[28:27.190 --> 28:28.130]  No question.
[28:28.230 --> 28:30.850]  The technology that streamed down to us really won the battle.
[28:30.930 --> 28:35.870]  But I have to say, talk about the little things too, because they were sending like letters through FedEx.
[28:35.870 --> 28:37.550]  You know, I got letters through a FedEx.
[28:37.650 --> 28:40.010]  I'm like, look, just don't spend your money.
[28:40.270 --> 28:41.450]  16 bucks a pop.
[28:41.650 --> 28:42.010]  Like that.
[28:42.310 --> 28:44.190]  And in fact, Bessie watched before she left.
[28:44.190 --> 28:45.050]  I was down in D.C.
[28:45.230 --> 28:45.890]  just recently.
[28:46.050 --> 28:52.090]  And she built what we call a terrarium to herself with mahogany desk and all the rest of the glass things you see through.
[28:52.290 --> 28:53.990]  But there's no view out of her window.
[28:53.990 --> 29:01.170]  You know, it's weird the mentality that these folks go through and what they were willing to prop themselves up to be.
[29:01.410 --> 29:03.970]  It's like what I call just pretension.
[29:04.150 --> 29:05.070]  You know, it's unbelievable.
[29:05.110 --> 29:08.670]  But I don't want to bang on people.
[29:08.810 --> 29:11.130]  That's not my objective here.
[29:11.290 --> 29:16.190]  Because we are in, I don't want to say dire straits, but we're in the next phase.
[29:16.430 --> 29:16.830]  Right.
[29:17.010 --> 29:18.430]  We really have to get rid of this debt.
[29:18.550 --> 29:20.110]  And yes, we have to pay these folks.
[29:20.110 --> 29:22.770]  And I like what you said, Earl.
[29:23.010 --> 29:32.570]  Because the two or three million or four million dollars it will take to rescue a billion or half a billion dollar network is worth it.
[29:32.750 --> 29:34.110]  And you know something, Anthony.
[29:34.110 --> 29:35.670]  I don't know if we have to pay the debt.
[29:35.870 --> 29:36.350]  No.
[29:36.510 --> 29:38.430]  I believe they have to pay us.
[29:38.650 --> 29:38.890]  Okay.
[29:39.310 --> 29:39.790]  Restitution.
[29:40.610 --> 29:41.090]  Reparation.
[29:41.390 --> 29:47.430]  And I think, you know, the folks in, what is it called, Jubilee 2000?
[29:48.330 --> 29:52.270]  They have something, what is it called, that you should...
[29:52.270 --> 29:53.130]  What is it called?
[29:53.230 --> 29:55.250]  Well, they're essentially asking for debt cancellation.
[29:55.690 --> 29:57.090]  They should cancel the debt.
[29:57.110 --> 30:00.150]  Of course, that's the movement around the debt in the third world.
[30:00.150 --> 30:02.690]  And that is the next thing that we need to work on.
[30:02.730 --> 30:07.590]  I always felt that we were colonized and that we need to declare our independence.
[30:07.590 --> 30:12.530]  And we need now to turn the heat up on them that they ought to...
[30:12.530 --> 30:15.030]  You know, the ransom of Red Chief?
[30:15.450 --> 30:15.890]  Beautiful.
[30:16.090 --> 30:16.710]  They ought...
[30:16.710 --> 30:17.650]  Oh, Henry's story.
[30:17.970 --> 30:21.930]  They ought to give us back our money with interest.
[30:21.930 --> 30:23.390]  They did not earn it.
[30:24.150 --> 30:25.330]  They stole it.
[30:25.550 --> 30:27.510]  And I want it back.
[30:27.790 --> 30:30.310]  Well, you know, Emanuel has a program to do.
[30:30.390 --> 30:32.070]  I really, you know, whatever.
[30:32.270 --> 30:36.590]  But I just want to say this last thing, Emanuel, just because, you know, I just got to do this.
[30:36.590 --> 30:49.950]  You know, Ken and Mimi and Errol and you, there was the most insidious thing that happened in us the past year was there were forces that tried to racialize and polarize this whole struggle.
[30:50.150 --> 30:57.430]  I love what Omar Wally Clay said at the board meeting when it came time for BAI to talk.
[30:57.590 --> 31:01.370]  And maybe that'll be aired sometime, someplace, and people can check that out.
[31:01.670 --> 31:05.270]  Or they can check the minutes, you know, because it's a public kind of institution.
[31:05.270 --> 31:06.430]  So you can check the minutes to see what he said.
[31:06.430 --> 31:07.350]  Ooh, I'm on BIX tomorrow.
[31:07.470 --> 31:09.370]  I'm supposed to run that tomorrow on BIX.
[31:09.390 --> 31:09.870]  Oh, by what time?
[31:10.290 --> 31:12.130]  Ah, after democracy now.
[31:12.330 --> 31:12.710]  Okay, great.
[31:12.870 --> 31:13.910]  Sometime after 10 o'clock.
[31:14.370 --> 31:17.030]  So, but I really do mean this.
[31:17.650 --> 31:24.630]  This is really a precious institution for liberation, for respect, and for justice.
[31:24.630 --> 31:25.810]  I'm into justice.
[31:26.170 --> 31:27.530]  I mean, forget all this other stuff.
[31:27.650 --> 31:28.870]  I'm really into justice.
[31:29.010 --> 31:32.610]  And that's what I hone my whole thing on.
[31:32.710 --> 31:33.290]  It's about justice.
[31:33.470 --> 31:34.730]  It's about humanity and justice.
[31:35.130 --> 31:41.930]  So, I mean, I just want people to just understand whatever you hear, just filter that through your own sensibilities of justice.
[31:42.150 --> 31:43.670]  It's justice being served.
[31:43.670 --> 31:45.590]  And I think that we can go forward with that.
[31:45.690 --> 31:52.870]  And I'm really hoping that this next phase, that we can get rid of the money issues and get back to, I mean, and move this network to something that's never been.
[31:52.950 --> 31:54.190]  Because we have everything in place.
[31:54.190 --> 32:05.110]  The internet's in place, the satellites in place, I'm talking about the videos in place, the radios in place, the worldwide networks in place, for justice to be done.
[32:05.430 --> 32:13.910]  And these are the first few days since what happened, since we got the station back, and since we made a big step towards getting the entire network back.
[32:14.050 --> 32:15.950]  But obviously, there's going to be transition.
[32:15.950 --> 32:21.070]  I'm particularly impressed with the way people from the previous regime are being treated.
[32:21.210 --> 32:22.990]  Nobody is being kicked out or banned.
[32:23.610 --> 32:26.410]  And I certainly wouldn't support anything like that.
[32:26.510 --> 32:41.510]  But I think what we learned through all of this is kind of a history lesson of sorts, except it involves a radio station, that you have your, I guess, moments of fear where an authoritarian regime takes effect.
[32:41.850 --> 32:44.070]  You have people that go along with that.
[32:44.070 --> 32:47.150]  You have people that rat on other people.
[32:47.150 --> 32:49.590]  You have those that are just out for power.
[32:49.730 --> 32:53.390]  And then you have those that stand up.
[32:53.790 --> 33:01.710]  And that even if it's just two words such as Bill Weinberg saying under siege every time he gives the station ID, I'd like to hear him tonight, what he's going to say.
[33:02.870 --> 33:07.310]  Or people like Amy Goodman saying the fired in the band every time she signs off.
[33:07.830 --> 33:09.710]  People do whatever it is they can.
[33:09.710 --> 33:16.970]  And that, I think, is something that I learned throughout all of this is that people have different levels that they will express themselves at.
[33:17.290 --> 33:20.170]  She also said from the studios of you, the listeners.
[33:20.470 --> 33:21.970]  Everybody forgets that particular part.
[33:22.030 --> 33:24.950]  But, you know, Emmanuel, somebody needs to say something about you.
[33:25.690 --> 33:25.970]  Absolutely.
[33:25.970 --> 33:26.530]  Oh, here it comes.
[33:26.530 --> 33:28.390]  No, there were two things.
[33:28.670 --> 33:30.230]  One, I'm sure nobody knows.
[33:30.430 --> 33:37.410]  At one time, Sister Rosalie Hoffman was seeking signatures for the return of the fired in band.
[33:37.590 --> 33:40.810]  Can you imagine the concept of the band in New York City?
[33:41.010 --> 33:41.150]  Yeah.
[33:41.530 --> 33:43.490]  Expressly lifted from South Africa.
[33:43.710 --> 33:44.710]  People being banned.
[33:45.210 --> 33:47.830]  But Rosalie called you on your cell phone.
[33:47.830 --> 33:51.330]  And suddenly she realized, my goodness, she was talking to you in Norway.
[33:51.630 --> 33:52.470]  In Norway.
[33:52.470 --> 33:52.710]  In Norway.
[33:52.710 --> 33:54.050]  She was just asking for a signature.
[33:54.290 --> 34:06.410]  And she said, my God, you know, he engaged me for like a half hour on this cell phone conversation from Norway to get a grip on what's happening and how people can proceed and move forward and signed on.
[34:06.410 --> 34:11.110]  And, you know, what an amazing thing to take that kind of involvement and interest.
[34:11.270 --> 34:17.590]  And then the time before, which is when I last most vividly remember you is when you declined the hacking request.
[34:18.210 --> 34:24.730]  No, it was when it was when we had the local advisory board was holding a protest.
[34:24.730 --> 34:29.590]  We were actually coming to have a meeting at the station, as we had done for 20 years.
[34:29.590 --> 34:33.750]  And we were met with a flange of cops and so on.
[34:33.810 --> 34:34.910]  And we were not allowed in.
[34:35.050 --> 34:39.170]  And we had to sit down, protest the death of community radio, et cetera.
[34:39.770 --> 34:42.230]  And you did something that was remarkable.
[34:42.230 --> 34:46.390]  It had guts and it had dignity and perseverance to it.
[34:46.490 --> 34:50.850]  And that was you actually broadcast the demonstration.
[34:51.070 --> 34:56.970]  You had Leslie Kagan on, who is now the chair of the Pacifica, the interim Pacifica National Board on.
[34:56.970 --> 35:03.930]  And you actually conducted broadcasts of people who were in the process of being arrested.
[35:04.490 --> 35:07.670]  And you were you didn't, you know, flinch.
[35:07.910 --> 35:10.130]  You didn't hold back.
[35:10.150 --> 35:14.450]  You know, you did it with a sense of courage and commitment.
[35:14.450 --> 35:15.630]  And you do get scared.
[35:15.750 --> 35:16.610]  You know, this airtime.
[35:16.690 --> 35:17.630]  It's fun.
[35:17.830 --> 35:18.490]  It's wonderful.
[35:18.770 --> 35:20.190]  It's a precious resource.
[35:20.190 --> 35:21.390]  And we love doing it.
[35:22.010 --> 35:26.090]  But you didn't hold back and you covered it and you were an advocate.
[35:26.090 --> 35:28.830]  And I really commend you for that.
[35:28.830 --> 35:32.590]  Because as much as anything else, this was also a worker's struggle.
[35:33.010 --> 35:36.310]  There were a lot of people who made their livelihood from this station.
[35:36.650 --> 35:38.810]  And they were thrown into the cold.
[35:38.890 --> 35:40.170]  And people did lose their housing.
[35:40.870 --> 35:43.750]  And people have been living a hand-to-mouth existence.
[35:43.990 --> 35:49.670]  Still not properly remunerated for their unjust firings.
[35:50.070 --> 35:52.110]  And you were a comrade.
[35:52.330 --> 35:53.970]  And that means a hell of a lot.
[35:54.090 --> 35:56.050]  And this program means a lot.
[35:56.210 --> 35:56.390]  Thanks.
[35:56.510 --> 35:57.130]  Thanks very much.
[35:57.550 --> 35:59.410]  That was just about one year ago, in fact.
[35:59.430 --> 36:01.630]  I think we have that show archived on the net.
[36:01.630 --> 36:03.550]  I think it was January 23rd of last year.
[36:03.970 --> 36:05.410]  But I recall it very...
[36:05.410 --> 36:07.850]  I mean, I'm sitting in the same chair I was in last year.
[36:08.750 --> 36:10.210]  How can someone...
[36:10.210 --> 36:11.110]  And I asked this question then.
[36:11.210 --> 36:16.590]  How can someone sit behind a microphone and ignore a story that's literally unfolding right in front of their eyes?
[36:16.670 --> 36:17.750]  I was asked to do that.
[36:17.870 --> 36:21.330]  I was told that what I did was wrong by management.
[36:21.590 --> 36:23.990]  And I was threatened with all kinds of things.
[36:25.370 --> 36:28.590]  And that fear is something that doesn't go away.
[36:28.710 --> 36:32.750]  The fear of what they're going to do to you now if you do this, if you say this.
[36:32.830 --> 36:33.630]  And a lot of people...
[36:33.630 --> 36:37.710]  And that's why I'm very hesitant to cast blame on people who didn't say enough.
[36:37.710 --> 36:40.350]  Because everybody reacts to these kinds of things differently.
[36:40.850 --> 36:41.990]  I could have said more.
[36:42.170 --> 36:43.310]  I could have spoken out more.
[36:43.850 --> 36:46.730]  I spoke out as much as I felt comfortable speaking out.
[36:46.730 --> 36:53.010]  And I tried not to take part in anything that I felt ashamed of.
[36:53.370 --> 36:55.990]  But there are people that certainly did a lot more.
[36:56.130 --> 36:57.930]  There are people that certainly spoke out.
[36:57.990 --> 36:59.870]  And I think maybe you're definitely one of them.
[37:01.230 --> 37:06.730]  I also think though that we have to pay special attention to those people out there.
[37:06.930 --> 37:15.210]  Namely our listeners and other people throughout the entire Pacifica listening area who were warning us years ago that this was coming.
[37:15.970 --> 37:20.010]  And I know I could have done more had I thought about it more.
[37:20.070 --> 37:21.450]  And I think a lot of us could have.
[37:21.750 --> 37:24.170]  If we had seen the changes that were...
[37:24.170 --> 37:29.970]  If we had put it all together, processed the whole thing, and said, Okay, this is the next logical step that's going to take place.
[37:30.850 --> 37:40.890]  And I just hope that next time, because there probably will be a next time in some way, we really listen, we really pay attention, and we keep this ever happening again to our network.
[37:40.890 --> 37:42.390]  We are very dangerous.
[37:42.710 --> 37:43.230]  Yeah, we are.
[37:43.490 --> 37:43.750]  We are.
[37:44.230 --> 37:44.910]  Think about it.
[37:44.910 --> 37:49.770]  I think what you're doing, you're calling for a truth and reconciliation committee so we can figure out what really happened.
[37:49.770 --> 37:50.350]  Mm-hmm.
[37:50.430 --> 37:52.770]  And of course, you're absolutely right about...
[37:52.770 --> 37:53.530]  We are dangerous.
[37:53.530 --> 38:10.770]  I mean that not to create alarm, but when you don't accept the status quo, and when you're fighting against racial animus and homophobism, and when you're fighting for egalitarianism economically and socially and socially, and the eradication of hierarchy,
[38:11.090 --> 38:15.790]  re-empowering from the grassroots up, that's a dangerous philosophy.
[38:16.010 --> 38:27.770]  That you're tilting at that windmill of capital and so on, and that's been the history of WBAI, and now we're more dangerous because now we did what we didn't do before.
[38:27.770 --> 38:30.990]  We had five stations before, but we weren't a network.
[38:31.330 --> 38:50.750]  Now we are a network with all these tentacles into the internet, etc., and it's not going away, and we better be very vigilant about preserving this little media gem that enables us to communicate about the myriad issues that are out there in the social justice process.
[38:50.750 --> 38:53.810]  But we still have a lot of work to do, and so the battle is not over.
[38:54.130 --> 38:56.350]  Human networks were made this past weekend at the media.
[38:56.370 --> 38:56.710]  Oh, yes.
[38:57.130 --> 39:02.510]  People from all other country who've been working on this in their little towns are meeting other people.
[39:02.710 --> 39:05.630]  They're exchanging phone numbers and email addresses.
[39:05.630 --> 39:14.230]  They're exchanging strategies and bits of history, and that is something we won't know the impact of that probably for a couple years.
[39:14.350 --> 39:24.530]  And the human network here, too, what I think is great is coming to the station tonight and just seeing everybody here again, and talking to each other and just having a good time and comparing experiences over the past few months.
[39:25.470 --> 39:27.530]  Over the last year, it hasn't been like that.
[39:27.530 --> 39:28.950]  It's been kind of institutionalized.
[39:29.670 --> 39:33.650]  It's been very quiet, maybe three people in the studio when I'm doing my program.
[39:34.790 --> 39:36.090]  I like a crowded studio.
[39:36.110 --> 39:37.530]  I like people here all the time.
[39:37.630 --> 39:38.310]  I like busyness.
[39:38.390 --> 39:39.810]  That's what got me in here in the first place.
[39:39.950 --> 39:47.370]  When I came to the studio the first time when we were back on 35th Street, it was back in 1988, and I just walked in the door.
[39:47.590 --> 39:50.050]  I just walked in the door, and immediately they found something for me to do.
[39:50.110 --> 39:52.290]  I think it was answering phones during a pledge drive or something.
[39:52.390 --> 39:58.150]  But I was introduced to people, and I got the sense that this was a place I was welcome any time.
[39:58.690 --> 40:04.570]  Well, the way it's been working here, you only come for your show, and you don't show up any other time.
[40:04.730 --> 40:05.370]  You're not allowed to.
[40:05.490 --> 40:05.650]  Yeah.
[40:05.850 --> 40:10.150]  I believe, Ken, you have one of the little magic passes that allows that lock to open up.
[40:10.150 --> 40:14.230]  I've got a magic pass, and it's only good on the day I do my show.
[40:14.350 --> 40:15.910]  Yeah, so it doesn't open the door any other time.
[40:15.950 --> 40:18.890]  Which means I can't come in the day before to prepare for it.
[40:19.430 --> 40:22.030]  Nobody can come in to prepare for their show.
[40:22.130 --> 40:23.830]  It's programmed only for that day.
[40:23.930 --> 40:25.490]  Couldn't you guys have taken care of that?
[40:25.490 --> 40:26.790]  I thought you had some skills.
[40:27.910 --> 40:28.630]  Good gracious.
[40:28.930 --> 40:30.290]  That's why I want you to be on this show.
[40:30.310 --> 40:32.550]  Yes, we could have hacked the lock.
[40:32.590 --> 40:35.010]  Yes, we could have done that, but that doesn't get rid of the lock.
[40:35.010 --> 40:42.930]  And that's my pet peeve right now is getting rid of this ridiculous security system that we have that goes contrary to everything the station stands for.
[40:42.950 --> 40:44.070]  Do you want me to take care of it?
[40:44.130 --> 40:46.050]  Well, no, actually, Errol, no.
[40:46.290 --> 40:47.170]  I have a better idea.
[40:47.170 --> 40:49.250]  Put that can of spray paint down, Errol.
[40:49.330 --> 40:50.810]  I have a better idea.
[40:50.930 --> 40:57.270]  Let's appeal to our listeners throughout the internet and throughout the airwaves that we want to sell this thing.
[40:57.430 --> 40:58.910]  I mean, obviously, we have to...
[40:58.910 --> 40:59.350]  No, no, no, no.
[40:59.830 --> 41:00.490]  Before we...
[41:00.950 --> 41:02.030]  It's a piece of history.
[41:02.030 --> 41:02.870]  Hold on a second.
[41:02.870 --> 41:16.450]  Before we sell this thing, ADT, come and take it out because what we're going to do is we're going to reverse engineer it, and we're going to figure out all the loopholes in it, and then we're going to publish it in the book and put it up on the internet.
[41:16.450 --> 41:19.090]  You mean this is like carnivore or magic lantern?
[41:19.250 --> 41:28.170]  And all the corporations and all the bank vaults that have this system will open at the snap of a finger.
[41:28.170 --> 41:30.670]  So, folks, come and get your system out of here.
[41:30.730 --> 41:31.790]  Hey, can you folks do that?
[41:31.850 --> 41:35.810]  Can this be like carnivore and magic lantern?
[41:36.090 --> 41:36.750]  Can we freak?
[41:36.770 --> 41:41.070]  A little bit more leverage than that, but we'll get on it.
[41:41.250 --> 41:42.410]  I don't need to know.
[41:42.510 --> 41:49.830]  All I need to know that when the brother comes up to me in the street and says, Hey, all you got to do is say, or something like that.
[41:49.930 --> 41:55.510]  And all the bank vaults will open up along Wall Street, and the stocks will come flying out.
[41:55.650 --> 41:56.750]  That's all I want to know.
[41:57.290 --> 41:58.790]  I don't even want the money.
[41:58.950 --> 42:01.710]  Now I know why they hijacked this station.
[42:01.710 --> 42:03.510]  You just gave us the reason.
[42:03.970 --> 42:07.770]  Well, after we figure out how it works, we want to get rid of it.
[42:08.030 --> 42:08.130]  Yeah.
[42:08.230 --> 42:11.050]  And then we want to put it back the way it was where people can come here.
[42:11.250 --> 42:13.830]  You know, obviously, there's a security guard downstairs.
[42:14.270 --> 42:16.010]  A mass of people can't go running up the stairs.
[42:16.090 --> 42:18.770]  Once they give me a key, the system is...
[42:18.770 --> 42:21.390]  Then let me in the door, so you know the system is useless.
[42:21.390 --> 42:22.090]  I let you in today.
[42:22.090 --> 42:24.030]  It was such a great feeling opening the door and letting you in.
[42:24.770 --> 42:25.790]  I wasn't allowed to do that.
[42:25.810 --> 42:27.670]  You're the one who let you in?
[42:29.030 --> 42:30.710]  You know what I say about that, Mimi?
[42:31.190 --> 42:32.010]  Keep on kicking.
[42:33.050 --> 42:34.610]  Oh, that's a low blow.
[42:35.030 --> 42:36.030]  No puns intended.
[42:36.410 --> 42:39.530]  And to you, Emmanuel, I can't believe it's soy.
[42:43.070 --> 42:44.250]  Okay, we're going to take phone calls.
[42:44.350 --> 42:46.250]  212-209-2900.
[42:46.850 --> 42:48.030]  I'm trying to go home, man.
[42:48.030 --> 42:48.610]  Don't go anywhere.
[42:48.750 --> 42:49.350]  No, you're not going anywhere.
[42:49.390 --> 42:50.050]  Get out of here.
[42:50.090 --> 42:51.070]  You love that microphone.
[42:51.270 --> 42:52.970]  I thought you had a program to do, man.
[42:52.970 --> 42:53.810]  Well, this is the program.
[42:53.850 --> 42:55.330]  This week, this is the program.
[42:55.490 --> 42:56.570]  There is nothing else.
[42:56.690 --> 42:57.570]  Hey, Ray LaFarce is here.
[42:57.570 --> 43:00.690]  We were going to talk about hacking locks and...
[43:00.690 --> 43:04.370]  Ray is from the local advisory board and the national board, the big board.
[43:04.630 --> 43:04.910]  Oh, yeah.
[43:04.930 --> 43:06.410]  He's important now.
[43:06.710 --> 43:07.230]  Yeah, I also...
[43:07.230 --> 43:12.190]  Before we move on, I want to thank a couple of people for keeping our stream going.
[43:12.190 --> 43:17.250]  We have a couple of people, Digital Mercenary and Antipentium, who have been doing this for the last several weeks.
[43:17.370 --> 43:18.710]  Yes, you may laugh, but those are real names.
[43:20.010 --> 43:20.330]  Yeah.
[43:21.150 --> 43:22.910]  And they take their job very seriously.
[43:22.910 --> 43:25.070]  And, of course, Junts has been...
[43:25.070 --> 43:29.630]  I don't know if you know this, but he has a radio in his house, hooked up to a cable modem.
[43:29.650 --> 43:30.450]  I think it's a cable modem.
[43:31.230 --> 43:34.330]  That has been on, non-stop, for a year now.
[43:34.490 --> 43:36.870]  And that's been feeding our signal to these other guys that stream it.
[43:36.870 --> 43:38.350]  Is that the Radio For All stuff?
[43:38.450 --> 43:38.730]  Or...
[43:38.730 --> 43:41.870]  Well, actually, Radio For All gets their stuff from that...
[43:41.870 --> 43:43.190]  No, actually, they get it from a different radio.
[43:43.190 --> 43:43.750]  And this is...
[43:43.750 --> 43:48.970]  Somebody else needs to be thanked, Mike here, who's in the studio, who one day just said, you know what?
[43:48.970 --> 43:53.370]  We need an archiving service where we can actually record every program.
[43:53.370 --> 43:54.090]  Are you the person?
[43:54.150 --> 43:54.790]  He's the person.
[43:54.790 --> 43:55.830]  I am in awe.
[43:56.050 --> 43:57.330]  You have servers that...
[43:57.330 --> 43:57.950]  I bow down.
[43:57.950 --> 43:58.590]  No, I'm sorry.
[43:58.590 --> 43:59.490]  I bow down.
[43:59.670 --> 44:09.070]  Do you know what it's like to be able to hear these defamations and assaults that have been going on and to be able to catalog and utilize them?
[44:09.070 --> 44:13.050]  They were part of our strategy, struggle for winning, and indeed history.
[44:13.150 --> 44:15.730]  Letting people hear defamations and assaults is my goal.
[44:16.010 --> 44:16.590]  Oh, good.
[44:17.150 --> 44:17.690]  Thank you.
[44:17.750 --> 44:18.710]  Thank you very much.
[44:18.750 --> 44:20.330]  You're not anti-pentium or anything.
[44:21.210 --> 44:28.090]  The thing is, the thing is, for someone to actually do something like that, a lot of people say, this is easy, this could be done, we all theorize all the time.
[44:28.150 --> 44:30.190]  But how many people actually do it?
[44:30.250 --> 44:31.830]  And that's, I think, what we've learned from this.
[44:31.930 --> 44:36.110]  When you sit down and make something work, you can really change history.
[44:36.110 --> 44:39.190]  And I think that's, a lot of us came together to do that.
[44:39.570 --> 44:43.010]  And the resistance was a collective effort.
[44:43.650 --> 44:45.130]  The subversion was right on.
[44:45.130 --> 44:49.310]  And what happens was, people who had the talents put it together.
[44:49.590 --> 44:53.190]  You know, I used to do a cable show once at a time before I came to WBAI.
[44:53.950 --> 44:56.610]  As a matter of fact, I used to do it sometime from out of BAI.
[44:56.650 --> 44:58.050]  Before it reminisces too much.
[44:58.050 --> 44:58.350]  No, no.
[44:58.390 --> 44:59.170]  Hold on a second.
[44:59.810 --> 45:00.210]  No, no.
[45:00.610 --> 45:03.010]  And we used to say, the revolution would not be televised.
[45:03.010 --> 45:06.510]  So learn now from what you're seeing or something like that.
[45:06.730 --> 45:14.110]  And so, once you have the skills, when that signal goes out and the room becomes dark, then you go into action.
[45:14.330 --> 45:16.970]  You see, you don't learn how to struggle before.
[45:16.970 --> 45:18.190]  And you guys were great.
[45:18.370 --> 45:22.630]  Do you have a slicer so I can slice my MP3 files into smaller units?
[45:24.670 --> 45:27.170]  We'll talk after the show and we'll figure all this out.
[45:27.530 --> 45:30.710]  But yeah, we're on the cutting edge of technology here.
[45:30.850 --> 45:32.030]  Let's take some phone calls.
[45:32.130 --> 45:35.450]  We'll have Ray come on in a little while and talk about some of the board issues.
[45:36.010 --> 45:37.110]  Let's see who's out there.
[45:37.130 --> 45:37.410]  Good evening.
[45:37.490 --> 45:37.890]  You're on the air.
[45:38.250 --> 45:38.490]  Hello.
[45:38.710 --> 45:39.010]  Hi.
[45:39.170 --> 45:39.470]  How you doing?
[45:39.770 --> 45:39.990]  Okay.
[45:40.670 --> 45:45.930]  I'd like to know, are all the shows that were taken off returned to their old time slots?
[45:45.930 --> 45:48.110]  Like Grandpa on Saturday afternoon.
[45:48.350 --> 45:51.650]  Grandpa will be coming in like a burst of energy on Saturday.
[45:51.650 --> 45:52.790]  I am so looking forward to that.
[45:52.970 --> 45:53.810]  You know, and the thing is...
[45:53.810 --> 45:56.030]  And Radio Free Aaron will be on...
[45:56.030 --> 45:56.490]  What was it?
[45:56.550 --> 45:57.990]  The new category they created?
[45:57.990 --> 45:58.330]  They were preempted.
[45:58.730 --> 46:00.070]  Indefinitely preempted.
[46:00.070 --> 46:02.950]  Every week they were being preempted because they were speaking out against this kind of thing, too.
[46:03.250 --> 46:10.270]  But of all the people who got kicked off the air, all the people who got fired and banned, did anybody not come back?
[46:10.430 --> 46:11.250]  I don't think so.
[46:11.410 --> 46:11.530]  No.
[46:11.530 --> 46:12.610]  That says something for me.
[46:12.610 --> 46:13.430]  We were a frightening package.
[46:13.430 --> 46:14.390]  All will be coming back.
[46:14.390 --> 46:17.210]  We were a package and we're all coming back.
[46:17.530 --> 46:20.490]  And it's going to be an exuberant, fabulous time.
[46:20.970 --> 46:23.590]  Even the people like Mimi Rosenberg that I don't like.
[46:23.690 --> 46:26.010]  Yeah, he tried to keep me out, but you know, hey.
[46:26.590 --> 46:33.170]  But also a lot of people that had come on since they were holding down, as I say, they are also still here.
[46:33.430 --> 46:33.570]  Yeah.
[46:33.970 --> 46:35.110]  Nobody has been purged.
[46:35.290 --> 46:37.390]  And I hope something like that never happens.
[46:37.510 --> 46:42.910]  No, but Ray will tell us that everything will go back to the way it was and then we will sort it all out.
[46:42.910 --> 46:46.890]  But we were rolling the clock back to...
[46:49.010 --> 46:49.890]  December 21st.
[46:50.030 --> 46:50.150]  First.
[46:50.910 --> 46:52.610]  Before that horrible broadcast.
[46:52.730 --> 46:52.990]  Emmanuel.
[46:53.490 --> 46:54.710]  Before you take the next phone call.
[46:54.990 --> 46:55.190]  Yeah.
[46:55.190 --> 46:57.370]  My son asked me a question.
[46:57.650 --> 46:57.830]  No.
[46:58.110 --> 46:58.590]  Asked me.
[46:58.630 --> 46:59.110]  I told him about something.
[46:59.110 --> 47:01.690]  You can ask a computer question, you opportunist.
[47:01.690 --> 47:01.790]  No, no.
[47:01.870 --> 47:04.030]  Let me leave my son out of this.
[47:04.290 --> 47:09.370]  Can I still make a phone call in New York with these new phones for five cents?
[47:09.950 --> 47:12.350]  Uh, you can make phone calls anywhere for five cents.
[47:12.910 --> 47:13.530]  Okay, alright.
[47:13.650 --> 47:14.310]  On the pay phone, right?
[47:14.490 --> 47:14.630]  Okay.
[47:15.090 --> 47:15.850]  The pay phone.
[47:15.990 --> 47:16.650]  The pay phone.
[47:16.790 --> 47:18.330]  Yeah, we'll talk after the show.
[47:18.630 --> 47:18.930]  I just...
[47:18.930 --> 47:19.810]  Yes or no.
[47:19.930 --> 47:20.270]  I just...
[47:20.270 --> 47:20.630]  I'm not...
[47:20.630 --> 47:21.970]  You know, I just want to have some hope.
[47:22.190 --> 47:23.310]  Anything is possible.
[47:23.310 --> 47:25.370]  That inures to somebody's questions.
[47:25.630 --> 47:28.710]  You listen to WBI Radio's 99.5 on the FM radio dial.
[47:28.830 --> 47:30.110]  Uh, Carla, did you have any other questions?
[47:30.490 --> 47:31.210]  Um, no.
[47:31.470 --> 47:32.990]  Um, actually, yes.
[47:33.310 --> 47:35.270]  Um, wake up call.
[47:35.470 --> 47:37.050]  That's gonna be back at six o'clock.
[47:37.190 --> 47:37.290]  Sweet in the morning.
[47:37.290 --> 47:38.690]  That was back this morning.
[47:38.790 --> 47:39.570]  Did you listen at six o'clock?
[47:39.750 --> 47:39.930]  Yeah, in fact...
[47:39.930 --> 47:40.770]  It comes on at six o'clock.
[47:40.890 --> 47:41.750]  You wake up late, don't you?
[47:41.930 --> 47:48.970]  This morning, this morning was a six hour Martin Luther King Day special, which I thought was very appropriate, uh, for, for the return of the morning show.
[47:49.030 --> 47:50.690]  Okay, let's see what they're gonna do on...
[47:50.690 --> 47:51.210]  It's gonna call the morning show.
[47:51.310 --> 47:51.870]  It's called wake up call.
[47:51.870 --> 47:53.030]  Wake up call tomorrow.
[47:53.490 --> 47:56.450]  They're gonna have Frank Morales on talking about COINTELPRO.
[47:56.770 --> 48:03.030]  We're gonna have some, uh, students on with Ursula Ruttenberg, who are on a hunger strike in New York.
[48:03.530 --> 48:09.390]  And, God, there's something else I'm supposed to be putting on, but, uh, we'll, we'll figure, we'll figure it out.
[48:09.730 --> 48:16.350]  But you're gonna hear Bernard with Bobby McFerrin sweet in the morning, and it's just gonna be in turn on and set the rest of the day.
[48:16.410 --> 48:17.890]  I'm looking forward to Robert Knight.
[48:18.110 --> 48:19.010]  Is he coming back tomorrow night?
[48:19.130 --> 48:20.350]  Oh, sure.
[48:21.070 --> 48:21.430]  Earthwatch?
[48:21.930 --> 48:22.290]  Absolutely.
[48:22.850 --> 48:23.090]  He was...
[48:23.090 --> 48:26.310]  Okay, let's go over all the shows that have been, have been, uh, taken off the air.
[48:26.850 --> 48:27.570]  There was Bob Fass.
[48:27.690 --> 48:28.810]  Yes, pretty much the whole schedule, isn't it?
[48:28.810 --> 48:30.630]  There's only two 12-hour blocks that are intact.
[48:31.790 --> 48:33.450]  There's Bob Fass on Thursday nights.
[48:33.630 --> 48:34.730]  Yes, he's on Saturday.
[48:35.630 --> 48:37.110]  There's Robert Knight on Tuesday nights.
[48:37.550 --> 48:38.250]  Wednesday night.
[48:38.590 --> 48:42.470]  And, of course, there's, as we said, Radio Free Air, and there's Building Bridges.
[48:42.470 --> 48:43.430]  There's Mike Vader.
[48:43.750 --> 48:44.330]  There's Mike Vader.
[48:44.470 --> 48:44.630]  There's Mike Vader, of course.
[48:44.630 --> 48:46.070]  Oh, yeah, maybe you're on tomorrow morning.
[48:46.170 --> 48:46.690]  You know that, right?
[48:47.670 --> 48:48.730]  No, tomorrow morning...
[48:48.730 --> 48:51.630]  Building Bridges comes on, on Wednesday morning.
[48:51.910 --> 48:54.050]  Oh, I was still a little gun shy.
[48:54.250 --> 48:57.510]  I wasn't sure they were gonna let me in, so I didn't really prepare for tomorrow morning.
[48:57.530 --> 48:58.890]  Maybe you should be going, preparing your show now.
[48:59.390 --> 49:01.330]  I certainly should be more responsible than that.
[49:01.330 --> 49:02.850]  So, Mike Vader's back on on Friday.
[49:03.010 --> 49:04.490]  Yeah, now, I'm really looking forward to that.
[49:04.630 --> 49:08.310]  And that's a program that I always listen to, and I can't wait to hear his commentary.
[49:08.310 --> 49:10.390]  I hope somebody told him, because I don't know if he was at the meeting.
[49:10.510 --> 49:11.670]  We didn't have to tell him.
[49:11.790 --> 49:11.990]  No, he was at the meeting.
[49:11.990 --> 49:13.530]  He never left the studio.
[49:13.810 --> 49:13.990]  He was.
[49:14.090 --> 49:15.490]  He was hiding in the corner.
[49:15.770 --> 49:16.830]  See, I have no idea what he looks like.
[49:16.930 --> 49:18.890]  I have no idea what a lot of people who work here look like.
[49:19.190 --> 49:20.430]  Yeah, Fred Hirschner was at the meeting, too.
[49:20.490 --> 49:20.910]  I saw him.
[49:21.750 --> 49:22.690]  Yeah, David Rothenberg.
[49:23.410 --> 49:24.410]  David, of course.
[49:24.510 --> 49:25.310]  Well, you know...
[49:26.110 --> 49:27.610]  David's gotta put the whole ticket thing back together.
[49:27.810 --> 49:28.670]  That might take a little while.
[49:29.070 --> 49:29.230]  Yeah.
[49:29.570 --> 49:30.610]  All right, let's take some more phone calls.
[49:30.790 --> 49:31.730]  Yeah, let's talk to each other.
[49:31.870 --> 49:31.950]  Phone calls.
[49:32.310 --> 49:32.770]  Good evening.
[49:32.930 --> 49:33.910]  You're on the air.
[49:35.430 --> 49:36.030]  Emmanuel, hi.
[49:36.030 --> 49:36.390]  How are you doing?
[49:36.770 --> 49:37.570]  It's Bob.
[49:37.950 --> 49:38.770]  Bob Fast.
[49:39.270 --> 49:39.830]  My goodness.
[49:39.870 --> 49:40.590]  Speak up the angel.
[49:40.890 --> 49:42.530]  And hi, Mimi.
[49:42.970 --> 49:44.230]  And hi, Anthony.
[49:44.630 --> 49:44.770]  Hi.
[49:44.790 --> 49:45.650]  And hi, Errol.
[49:46.490 --> 49:47.330]  You're all...
[49:47.330 --> 49:48.050]  Ken's here, too.
[49:48.690 --> 49:49.550]  The comic show.
[49:49.750 --> 49:49.990]  Who's here?
[49:50.030 --> 49:50.630]  Ken Gale.
[49:50.710 --> 49:51.210]  Ken Gale.
[49:51.350 --> 49:52.630]  Ken, Ken, Ken.
[49:53.050 --> 49:55.210]  In a couple hours, about an hour, you're here.
[49:55.370 --> 49:56.190]  An hour and 15 minutes.
[49:56.230 --> 49:56.970]  Yeah, with Jules Pfeiffer.
[49:57.530 --> 49:57.770]  Yeah.
[49:57.970 --> 49:58.210]  Wow.
[49:58.630 --> 49:59.530]  You know Jules.
[49:59.930 --> 50:00.650]  Yes, I do.
[50:00.650 --> 50:06.270]  As a matter of fact, one time, many years ago, I was a waiter in a coffee shop in the village.
[50:06.810 --> 50:10.150]  And instead of a tip, Jules Pfeiffer gave me a drawing.
[50:10.370 --> 50:10.610]  Woo.
[50:10.850 --> 50:12.050]  And you didn't keep it.
[50:12.310 --> 50:13.790]  And you didn't keep it.
[50:14.210 --> 50:15.190]  No, I didn't.
[50:15.350 --> 50:16.450]  What the hell is this?
[50:16.490 --> 50:17.370]  I work for money.
[50:19.810 --> 50:21.750]  So much for sentimentality there.
[50:21.810 --> 50:23.210]  So much for smartness.
[50:23.430 --> 50:23.630]  Boy.
[50:24.170 --> 50:24.630]  You know what?
[50:24.630 --> 50:25.770]  That would be worse today.
[50:26.010 --> 50:26.230]  Wow.
[50:26.530 --> 50:29.290]  Oh, Bob, I'm shocked to hear such a materialist response.
[50:29.570 --> 50:32.390]  Well, I was a boy then, just giving it all away.
[50:32.390 --> 50:36.630]  I just want to thank all of you so much.
[50:36.810 --> 50:43.710]  And I'm so glad that you mentioned how important the listeners were in what happened.
[50:43.710 --> 51:08.710]  Because all of your organizing skills and all of your technical skills wouldn't have really meant anything unless they hooked together the listeners who were so distraught and angry about what was happening to their radio station without their consultation.
[51:09.410 --> 51:09.890]  Right.
[51:11.070 --> 51:13.950]  That they, I mean, they inspired everyone, I think.
[51:14.130 --> 51:16.730]  You know, Bob, that is so important.
[51:17.110 --> 51:21.470]  You know, we, when we started doing BIX, we were broke.
[51:21.650 --> 51:23.470]  We were funding in our own pockets.
[51:23.630 --> 51:31.070]  And people started to get mad at us, calling us and emailing us and asking, how can they send money?
[51:31.470 --> 51:33.990]  You know, how can they contribute to meet us in the street?
[51:34.390 --> 51:36.830]  You know, give us $10, $20 or whatever.
[51:37.050 --> 51:38.290]  It was incredible.
[51:38.290 --> 51:49.010]  But before we leave Bob Fast, I just want to remember people who have contributed to the struggle and they have made the ultimate sacrifice.
[51:49.430 --> 51:50.610]  I want to remember...
[51:50.610 --> 51:51.410]  Ultimate sacrifice?
[51:51.570 --> 51:53.630]  I want to remember Samori Marksman.
[51:53.630 --> 51:54.330]  I was aware of that.
[51:54.790 --> 51:55.410]  Of course.
[51:55.650 --> 51:58.910]  Who worked tirelessly to preserve this network.
[51:59.190 --> 52:05.850]  And I believe that he knew that if things had continued the way it was, that they would have fired him.
[52:05.850 --> 52:12.390]  Well, there was one morning when he and Mimi and I, one Sunday morning, were on a program.
[52:12.390 --> 52:14.470]  We had our first confrontation.
[52:14.470 --> 52:20.190]  Let me tell you, that program was happening in February, I think the 29th...
[52:20.770 --> 52:21.990]  February 29th.
[52:22.510 --> 52:23.010]  1999.
[52:23.010 --> 52:23.330]  1999.
[52:23.970 --> 52:30.110]  I was in Berkeley, California, the only person from New York to go to that meeting.
[52:30.370 --> 52:32.410]  I don't think there can be a February 29th, 1999.
[52:32.410 --> 52:33.130]  I think...
[52:33.130 --> 52:33.870]  That's true.
[52:34.010 --> 52:34.930]  Then it was...
[52:35.490 --> 52:35.810]  Okay.
[52:36.010 --> 52:37.570]  If it wasn't, it was the 28th.
[52:37.670 --> 52:39.390]  Or if it wasn't, it was March 1st.
[52:39.610 --> 52:41.310]  But in any case, okay?
[52:41.930 --> 52:43.730]  It was one of those days.
[52:47.670 --> 52:48.530]  And what's his name?
[52:48.590 --> 52:48.970]  What's his name?
[52:49.010 --> 52:49.250]  What's his name?
[52:49.250 --> 52:49.350]  What's his name?
[52:49.430 --> 52:50.170]  The guy who wrote...
[52:50.170 --> 52:50.750]  Matthew Lazar.
[52:50.890 --> 52:52.490]  Matthew Lazar came up to the mic.
[52:52.750 --> 52:53.510]  And Grandpa was on, too.
[52:53.510 --> 53:00.970]  And told Mary Frances Berry about what was happening in New York, and the wonderful program he was just on.
[53:01.390 --> 53:03.670]  And I saw her turn white.
[53:03.910 --> 53:04.430]  Okay?
[53:04.550 --> 53:05.010]  I did.
[53:05.370 --> 53:09.450]  And I have some of that on tape, and we will play it.
[53:09.850 --> 53:10.590]  And I want to thank...
[53:10.590 --> 53:10.790]  Video tape?
[53:11.150 --> 53:11.990]  Audio tape.
[53:12.090 --> 53:13.890]  There are video tapes floating around here.
[53:14.210 --> 53:16.630]  We will get it, and we will play these things.
[53:16.930 --> 53:25.770]  And I want to thank Paul Wunder, who, the morning I decided that I needed to go to California, at about 5 o'clock in the morning.
[53:25.910 --> 53:27.690]  He said, Oh, what the...
[53:27.690 --> 53:29.670]  Why didn't you tell me this before?
[53:30.010 --> 53:30.510]  So...
[53:30.510 --> 53:34.170]  And we left here, and we walked over to what was the World Trade Center.
[53:34.430 --> 53:36.890]  And you know he had these frequent flyer mileage.
[53:37.090 --> 53:43.550]  And he cashed in some frequent flyer mileage, and bought me a ticket, and sent me to California.
[53:43.950 --> 53:56.970]  And I also want to thank Chet Jackson, who worked here to try to maintain this place, and went home, and passed away right after the coup.
[53:57.190 --> 54:09.550]  And it's my belief that these people, that their life was shortened by their dedication to WBAI, and by their being, working here, and being a part of the struggle.
[54:09.770 --> 54:18.750]  And I just want to thank them, and to thank the listeners, and to thank all the people who have worked here in this institution.
[54:18.750 --> 54:24.570]  And that dedication is something that transcends not only from the staff, but also, as you said, to the listeners.
[54:25.010 --> 54:36.570]  And I met a lot of listeners this weekend, and I can't say how proud I am just to be a part of all this, to meet so many interesting people, diverse people from all different walks of life, all different sizes, shapes, and colors.
[54:36.570 --> 54:41.150]  It's just so incredible to actually put faces to the people out there.
[54:41.230 --> 54:43.570]  When you talk in a microphone, you don't know if there's anybody out there.
[54:43.690 --> 54:53.030]  But to actually see an auditorium filled, jam-packed with people that are so passionate about saving this place, there's no better reward that I think we can get than to see that.
[54:53.050 --> 54:53.610]  Well, there is one better reward.
[54:53.690 --> 54:58.070]  Not seeing them as they sensed that they were going to be victorious.
[54:58.070 --> 54:58.450]  Yeah.
[54:58.850 --> 54:59.770]  That was wonderful.
[54:59.990 --> 55:00.530]  That was great.
[55:00.770 --> 55:01.750]  That's something I'll never forget.
[55:01.970 --> 55:02.230]  That was something...
[55:02.230 --> 55:03.630]  We were so self-contained.
[55:03.790 --> 55:07.450]  We were supposed to be silent and let the board continue with the work.
[55:07.570 --> 55:08.550]  And we were seething.
[55:08.710 --> 55:11.850]  And that glorious moment that you played...
[55:11.850 --> 55:15.290]  There was a guy there holding up a sign that said, Silence, please.
[55:16.010 --> 55:18.270]  And he would hold it up and people would start.
[55:18.450 --> 55:22.090]  And then when the applause erupted like that, he just put the sign down.
[55:22.330 --> 55:23.330]  He just waved his hand.
[55:23.570 --> 55:23.610]  No!
[55:23.970 --> 55:25.310]  Can't contain them anymore.
[55:25.310 --> 55:29.630]  Bob and Errol and Ken and Mimi and Emanuel.
[55:30.590 --> 55:31.550]  Let me just say this.
[55:31.870 --> 55:33.050]  I sent you around an email.
[55:33.450 --> 55:38.130]  First of all, someone sent me an email from South Africa congratulating us on taking the station back.
[55:38.610 --> 55:41.910]  And I said that, well, they need to thank...
[55:41.910 --> 55:44.190]  They said, who should congratulate us?
[55:44.250 --> 55:46.330]  Well, congratulate the listeners, first of all.
[55:46.390 --> 55:54.050]  But if I had a list to congratulate, at the top of my list, in this order, would be Juan Gonzalez first and Leslie Kagan second.
[55:54.050 --> 55:57.030]  And then went on to name a whole bunch of other people, including, you know, Bernard and Amy.
[55:57.390 --> 56:01.030]  Miguel Maldonado, who we shouldn't forget.
[56:01.210 --> 56:05.710]  But with that, I need to just say that, since I mentioned Leslie Kagan...
[56:05.710 --> 56:05.870]  Yes.
[56:06.050 --> 56:06.910]  I really...
[56:06.910 --> 56:10.850]  We really need to, since we were at 8.53 in the p.m.
[56:10.870 --> 56:13.050]  Who told you the watcher of the clock?
[56:13.050 --> 56:14.270]  I have to be, man.
[56:14.490 --> 56:14.870]  That's my job.
[56:14.870 --> 56:15.750]  Did you say Dan Chaglin?
[56:15.910 --> 56:16.130]  Yeah.
[56:16.450 --> 56:18.030]  But anyway, Ray Lafarge is here.
[56:18.210 --> 56:21.270]  And, you know, he's a member of the board, the national board.
[56:21.410 --> 56:23.130]  Maybe it's time for him to chime in.
[56:23.210 --> 56:26.890]  I just want to say, though, about Leslie Kagan, she did a phenomenal job as chair.
[56:27.130 --> 56:32.170]  I mean, she basically was able to calm down our side, which is very exuberant, and keep the...
[56:32.170 --> 56:33.030]  He kept her sense of humor.
[56:33.210 --> 56:43.930]  Yeah, keep a sense of humor throughout it all, and keep the other hostile side from subverting the whole purpose of the meeting in the first place and with endless motions and delaying tactics.
[56:44.150 --> 56:45.550]  So I think she really did an incredible job.
[56:45.570 --> 56:46.030]  I mean, I don't wanna.
[56:46.130 --> 56:46.770]  You have to be quiet.
[56:46.830 --> 56:47.630]  I don't wanna.
[56:48.650 --> 56:52.370]  Ray Lafarge is here from the local advisory board and the national board.
[56:52.530 --> 56:52.690]  Yeah.
[56:52.810 --> 56:53.210]  Hello, everybody.
[56:53.510 --> 56:54.690]  I'm gonna make sure your microphone's on.
[56:54.830 --> 56:55.010]  There you go.
[56:55.110 --> 56:56.450]  Ray is a stand-up guy.
[56:56.750 --> 56:56.910]  Yeah.
[56:57.030 --> 56:57.790]  Well, he's sitting down now.
[56:57.790 --> 56:58.070]  That's my best.
[56:59.610 --> 57:00.210]  Hi, Bob.
[57:00.550 --> 57:00.810]  Hey.
[57:02.290 --> 57:03.770]  So where do you think we stand on that?
[57:03.770 --> 57:12.130]  I'm very proud also to be part of that tremendous movement and to have struggle with people who believe in some things.
[57:12.170 --> 57:23.570]  Like they said relentlessly today, King believed that if you didn't have something you were willing to die for, in this case, not dying for, but struggling, putting your life on the line for, life wouldn't be worth it.
[57:23.730 --> 57:26.250]  And I met plenty of people who were willing to do so.
[57:26.470 --> 57:32.030]  And besides, I had a vision based on experience and the energy and the dedication to...
[57:32.030 --> 57:33.450]  So we didn't get here by accident.
[57:34.090 --> 57:36.650]  We still have tremendous amount of work left to be done.
[57:36.750 --> 57:36.870]  Right.
[57:37.090 --> 57:39.170]  When you say member of the board, there's a continuum.
[57:39.510 --> 57:46.010]  I have probably a position that normally, normally puts me in a position to vote and influence the process.
[57:46.430 --> 57:52.450]  But as those people can tell you here, I've worked with Mimi on the lab, concerned friends with Errol.
[57:52.450 --> 57:55.530]  And this is a collective work, truly so.
[57:56.110 --> 58:09.830]  And as a labor organizer, I can tell you that the members of my union that are the most productive, the most positive, are those that have a say, that are involved, that understand the process, that are educated about it, and that get to have an impact upon it.
[58:09.910 --> 58:13.670]  And hopefully we can bring this here with respect.
[58:14.630 --> 58:26.650]  We don't ever want to see a situation where somebody will be fired for expressing their belief, and that's not the license to scream fire, and bring tremendous energies and potential that's out there.
[58:27.510 --> 58:33.650]  I mean, we could say there's a war, and this system should really be put in the service of defending our interests.
[58:33.650 --> 58:38.310]  But even if there was no war, there is nothing like Pacifica, there's nothing like BAI.
[58:38.790 --> 58:47.710]  And I think the potential in front of us, not only we have to bring back the clock to before December 22nd, but we have to do better.
[58:47.970 --> 58:52.530]  Because it's clear that the seed for this destruction existed in the system the way it was before.
[58:52.710 --> 58:56.910]  We have to find the contradiction, and we have to create the boundaries.
[58:57.330 --> 59:01.610]  And the interest, so that people can have interest in keeping the system going in the same fashion.
[59:01.990 --> 59:02.470]  All right.
[59:02.550 --> 59:03.330]  So what comes next?
[59:03.590 --> 59:04.510]  Will there be more meetings?
[59:05.790 --> 59:07.610]  Well, we'll be asked, and we're quite willing.
[59:07.690 --> 59:08.810]  We've been here practically every day.
[59:08.850 --> 59:11.350]  I think there should be a presence from the board, the lab.
[59:11.610 --> 59:13.410]  There should also be presence by the public.
[59:13.630 --> 59:17.430]  I'm hoping that soon we can have some kind of reception and some kind of...
[59:17.430 --> 59:18.270]  Meetings and parties.
[59:18.590 --> 59:18.850]  Yeah.
[59:19.050 --> 59:20.130]  And parties, and dancing.
[59:20.290 --> 59:22.070]  We should see how many people are here.
[59:22.430 --> 59:25.190]  Manuel's got the whole, you know, youth contingent here.
[59:25.210 --> 59:28.630]  Yeah, it's getting kind of hot in here, so we actually have to move out anyway.
[59:28.790 --> 59:29.790]  Well, I would say one last thing.
[59:29.790 --> 59:36.790]  During the board meeting, it was said, and I don't quite agree that the damage that was done to us, financially or otherwise, was something we could overcome.
[59:37.010 --> 59:39.250]  I think we should never underestimate what was done.
[59:39.410 --> 59:42.230]  It was incredibly criminal.
[59:42.230 --> 59:44.730]  And I don't mean that necessarily legally, but morally for sure.
[59:45.390 --> 59:53.730]  But I know we have the potential to raise the money that is necessary to broaden this network and to move forward in a way that we can all be proud and benefit from.
[59:53.990 --> 59:54.290]  Okay.
[59:54.750 --> 59:57.910]  With that, we're out of here, but I want to thank everybody for coming in.
[59:58.310 --> 59:59.390]  Thank you, Emmanuel.
[59:59.670 --> 01:00:01.010]  Thanks, Bob, for being on the phone.
[01:00:01.150 --> 01:00:03.070]  Thank you, listeners.
[01:00:03.250 --> 01:00:03.910]  Thanks to the listeners.
[01:00:04.190 --> 01:00:04.310]  Bye, Bob.
[01:00:04.670 --> 01:00:08.010]  And stay tuned, because there will be all kinds of interesting things coming up in the future.
[01:00:08.470 --> 01:00:11.350]  And we'll be updating you as to where this goes from here.
[01:00:11.830 --> 01:00:14.610]  We'll be back again next week with, I guess, somewhat more of a normal show.
[01:00:14.950 --> 01:00:15.430]  See you then.
[01:00:15.470 --> 01:00:17.150]  Are you referring to us as abnormal?
[01:00:17.150 --> 01:00:17.290]  Grandma?
[01:00:18.550 --> 01:00:19.490]  Good night.
[01:00:19.730 --> 01:00:19.990]  Bye.
[01:00:20.190 --> 01:00:21.690]  Mel Chauvin is a pig engineer.
[01:00:23.130 --> 01:00:24.530]  Right on, sister.
[01:00:25.050 --> 01:00:27.290]  We lost our green land.
[01:00:28.130 --> 01:00:31.330]  We lost our green air.
[01:00:32.190 --> 01:00:35.290]  We lost our true wisdom.
[01:00:35.290 --> 01:00:37.330]  And we live
[01:01:01.460 --> 01:01:05.080]  on the wisdom, the wisdom.
[01:01:05.280 --> 01:01:07.800]  That's what we have for.
[01:01:08.540 --> 01:01:14.460]  And yes, my dear sisters, we must learn to ask.
[01:01:14.940 --> 01:01:17.760]  Wisdom, oh wisdom.
[01:01:39.850 --> 01:01:45.550]  Let's wake up right on.
[01:01:46.010 --> 01:01:46.510]  That's
[01:01:55.780 --> 01:01:58.060]  what we want for.
[01:01:58.480 --> 01:01:59.640]  And yes, my dear sisters, let's wake up right on.
[01:01:59.640 --> 01:02:04.500]  My dear sisters, we must learn to find.
[01:02:05.380 --> 01:02:08.660]  We have a sweet job.
[01:02:08.960 --> 01:02:09.380]  Let's go.
[01:02:09.700 --> 01:02:11.880]  We have a sweet job.
[01:02:12.160 --> 01:02:12.420]  Let's go.
[01:02:27.500 --> 01:02:38.740]  And Off the Hook was brought to you live with portions on recording of our listener-sponsored non-commercial Pacifica Radio, 99.5 FM, WBAI in New York.
[01:02:39.160 --> 01:02:41.680]  Stay tuned next for...
[01:02:41.680 --> 01:02:42.380]  A career.
[01:02:42.380 --> 01:02:45.260]  Here we go.