[00:22.310 --> 00:32.370]  This is Chaz Crowder from WBAI Out FM Radio, New York City's only lesbian and gay, bisexual, transgender, two-spirited radio program.
[00:32.370 --> 00:42.290]  I, along with our other producers, David Brooks, Mel Becker, and Vanessa Cooper, invite you to join us every Sunday from 6.30 to 7.30 p.m.
[00:42.530 --> 00:45.730]  to discuss issues and concerns of the gay and lesbian community.
[00:45.730 --> 00:56.810]  We thank you for your past support, and we look forward to you listening to our future broadcast, heard only here every Sunday from 6.30 to 7.30 p.m.
[00:57.170 --> 01:06.750]  Out FM Radio, 99.5 FM on your radio dial in New York City, or WBAI.org on the Internet.
[01:14.690 --> 01:19.820]  And you are listening to WBAI in New York at 99.5 FM.
[01:19.940 --> 01:21.550]  It's currently 8 p.m.
[01:21.910 --> 01:23.260]  on this Tuesday night.
[01:24.120 --> 01:28.160]  And assuming you're not watching the State of the Union, you're listening to us, Off the Hook.
[01:33.210 --> 01:37.850]  The telephone keeps ringing, so I ripped it off more.
[01:38.710 --> 01:43.470]  I cut myself while shaving, now I can't make a cough.
[01:44.350 --> 01:44.390]  I
[01:48.460 --> 01:51.740]  would, bundledly bump, but the best expect the worst.
[01:52.240 --> 01:55.260]  I hope that's understood, bundledly bump!
[02:56.990 --> 02:58.250]  And a good evening to everybody.
[02:58.250 --> 02:59.350]  The program is Off the Hook.
[02:59.650 --> 03:14.230]  Emmanuel Goldstein here with you for the next hour or so, as we update people on what's going on in the world of hackers, hackers, hackerdom, and technology, the Internet, all that kind of fun stuff.
[03:14.630 --> 03:16.310]  And Mike joins us from Columbia.
[03:16.970 --> 03:17.750]  From the studio.
[03:18.030 --> 03:20.390]  Actually, I'm having trouble with your audio.
[03:20.590 --> 03:21.350]  Say that louder.
[03:21.790 --> 03:22.010]  Hello?
[03:22.310 --> 03:22.590]  Yes.
[03:23.090 --> 03:23.570]  I don't know.
[03:23.570 --> 03:23.990]  That's my headphones.
[03:24.370 --> 03:25.130]  Okay, try now.
[03:25.530 --> 03:26.590]  Can anyone hear me?
[03:26.930 --> 03:27.810]  I hear you.
[03:27.930 --> 03:30.170]  I'm hearing you from being across the room.
[03:30.450 --> 03:30.710]  Okay.
[03:31.030 --> 03:31.330]  All right.
[03:31.450 --> 03:32.990]  I think I just have to bring you up way high.
[03:34.290 --> 03:38.610]  So, yeah, it's another fun, packed edition of Off the Hook.
[03:38.790 --> 03:41.910]  We'll be taking phone calls a little later on in the evening.
[03:43.070 --> 03:47.930]  A lot of interesting updates, things going on that people should know about.
[03:49.170 --> 03:49.950]  Where do I start?
[03:50.050 --> 03:53.510]  Well, I guess probably the first thing to do is a bit of bad news.
[03:53.750 --> 03:57.350]  We always start with a bit of bad news, but I guess we're just good at it.
[03:58.610 --> 04:02.910]  But you recall we had a victory last month, a lawsuit victory.
[04:03.010 --> 04:08.070]  Our first, in fact, of all the lawsuits we've ever faced, except for the ones that weren't filed against us.
[04:08.210 --> 04:11.630]  For the ones that actually were filed against us, this was our first victory.
[04:12.190 --> 04:17.370]  And, of course, I'm referring to the Ford case, where we registered a site.
[04:17.430 --> 04:18.550]  It didn't even have Ford's name in it.
[04:18.550 --> 04:25.870]  It contained an insult to another automobile company, the F-word, followed by GeneralMotors.com.
[04:27.370 --> 04:31.990]  And we thought it was just kind of, you know, a social commentary.
[04:33.890 --> 04:34.990]  And the court agreed.
[04:36.390 --> 04:37.630]  Now, why did Ford sue us?
[04:37.650 --> 04:43.970]  Well, because we pointed the site at Ford as kind of a political statement, I guess, is probably the best way to say it.
[04:44.430 --> 04:48.270]  It was really just kind of a joke, you know, and they didn't see the humor in it.
[04:49.970 --> 04:54.810]  Well, even though they lost the case, we just found out that they're appealing to the Sixth Circuit.
[04:55.550 --> 04:56.390]  And what does that mean?
[04:56.430 --> 05:00.530]  That means we get to go through the whole thing all over again, including the whole spending money part.
[05:00.550 --> 05:03.330]  So it's a big waste of time, a big waste of resources.
[05:04.690 --> 05:09.190]  But like we said last month, it's essential that freedom of speech be protected.
[05:10.090 --> 05:14.750]  And we believe we have the right to point the website any place we want to point the website.
[05:16.290 --> 05:22.230]  And if Ford wins and gets the right to shut us up, well, it would be bad for everybody.
[05:23.050 --> 05:24.510]  So we don't want that for sure.
[05:25.290 --> 05:29.330]  So we'll have more updates as we learn more.
[05:30.370 --> 05:30.690]  Surprised?
[05:31.450 --> 05:32.050]  Not really.
[05:32.210 --> 05:32.330]  Yeah.
[05:33.530 --> 05:34.730]  I guess, you know, we appealed.
[05:34.810 --> 05:37.150]  We appealed the DECSS case.
[05:37.530 --> 05:39.290]  And in fact, we're bringing that to the Supreme Court.
[05:39.490 --> 05:44.410]  So I don't know if this one's going to go all the way to the Supreme Court, but it's something we're going to stand behind.
[05:44.450 --> 05:46.730]  It's a pain in the ass having to do this yet again, you know?
[05:46.790 --> 05:52.090]  Having to launch another defense and all the other things that go along with it.
[05:52.790 --> 05:54.990]  But I guess it's part of the rules of the game.
[05:56.010 --> 06:00.170]  Okay, this week in New York is a lot of fun.
[06:00.270 --> 06:03.870]  Everyone's preparing for the World Economic Forum.
[06:04.090 --> 06:20.150]  You know, I got to ask, who is the idiot who thought it would be a good idea to have this kind of a conference in New York City so soon after all the horrendous events of last year, as if the cops don't have enough stress to have to deal with this kind of nonsense,
[06:20.150 --> 06:36.270]  as if the people don't have enough stress to have to deal with this kind of nonsense, some idiot out there thought it would be good to bring the world's richest people and corporations together for a big, you know, power-mongering huddle of some sort at the Waldorf Astoria and,
[06:36.270 --> 06:45.550]  you know, attract tens of thousands of protesters and all kinds of media reaction and overreaction and things like that.
[06:45.590 --> 06:46.810]  Who was the idiot who did that?
[06:46.810 --> 06:48.250]  Well, I don't think it was stupid at all.
[06:48.310 --> 06:49.070]  I think it was brilliant.
[06:49.070 --> 06:49.810]  You think it was brilliant?
[06:50.050 --> 06:58.510]  Because the way the media is going to portray it, they're going to be making it seem like it's these protesters who are putting unfair stresses on the police.
[06:58.790 --> 07:00.350]  Yeah, and they're going to probably succeed in doing that.
[07:00.530 --> 07:06.170]  So they've already managed to rewrite Seattle as, you know, the violent protest.
[07:06.370 --> 07:11.930]  We were there on this radio wave, on this radio station, right on this show, listening to it.
[07:19.070 --> 07:21.650]  It was a small group of people, but there was no violence by the protesters.
[07:21.810 --> 07:25.070]  But yet, that is remembered as a violent protest.
[07:25.310 --> 07:27.730]  You know, and I think they've succeeded in rewriting history.
[07:28.470 --> 07:29.450]  And they'll do it again.
[07:29.650 --> 07:29.770]  Yeah.
[07:29.830 --> 07:39.750]  I mean, some of the events are so close to the former side of the Trade Towers that there's just no tasteful way for us to protest them.
[07:40.770 --> 07:42.910]  And I think that's a real shame.
[07:43.230 --> 07:43.750]  Yeah, it is.
[07:43.870 --> 08:06.330]  I mean, somehow, somehow they have gotten the sympathy of the nation, when in actuality they should be having the contempt of the nation because of what they've done as far as, you know, robbing people, individual people, human beings, you know, the people that actually keep this place going,
[08:06.510 --> 08:08.510]  this nation, this world, you know.
[08:09.750 --> 08:18.890]  I mean, you know, I don't want to get into a whole wealth distribution thing, but it's pretty obscene how things wind up, who gets the benefits and who doesn't get the benefits.
[08:20.390 --> 08:31.690]  I mean, just looking at what happened from the World Trade Center, I heard the report that something like 5% of the people affected by it, as far as taking losses, have been compensated by their insurance companies.
[08:31.870 --> 08:39.850]  The other 95% are either still waiting for something or are being debated by their insurance company as to whether or not they're ever going to pay anything.
[08:40.110 --> 08:40.770]  It's obscene.
[08:40.950 --> 08:45.310]  You know, the whole point of insurance is to cover losses.
[08:45.790 --> 08:49.370]  And apparently, they feel they no longer have to do that.
[08:49.710 --> 08:50.690]  And that's just typical.
[08:50.830 --> 08:55.970]  That's just typical of what happens when too much power is concentrated in the hands of too few.
[08:56.150 --> 08:58.370]  And I think that's part of what we're going to see this weekend.
[08:58.810 --> 09:02.930]  I'm just very worried about the way things are going because there's such media concentration.
[09:02.930 --> 09:06.910]  There is, you know, the same voices are being heard all the time on the mass media.
[09:07.710 --> 09:10.250]  The forum has not been in New York for quite some time.
[09:10.390 --> 09:11.310]  It's never been in New York.
[09:11.490 --> 09:12.630]  Well, the forum...
[09:12.630 --> 09:13.870]  There have been demonstrations in New York.
[09:13.990 --> 09:19.370]  I mean, the forum for this particular century or even decade, I guess, it hasn't happened here in a while.
[09:19.490 --> 09:24.390]  The World Economic Forum itself has met every year in Davos, a Swiss ski resort, until this year.
[09:24.650 --> 09:25.590]  So somebody...
[09:25.590 --> 09:26.550]  This is what I was getting at before.
[09:26.730 --> 09:30.370]  Somebody had the brilliant idea of saying, let's not do this in Switzerland.
[09:30.370 --> 09:36.030]  Let's come to New York and have mass, you know, protests and, you know, media coverage of all this.
[09:36.390 --> 09:37.370]  Whose idea was that?
[09:38.170 --> 09:39.610]  I believe the WEF itself.
[09:39.890 --> 09:40.670]  The WEF decided?
[09:40.870 --> 09:41.650]  I believe so.
[09:41.810 --> 09:42.010]  Okay.
[09:42.170 --> 09:43.410]  I thought they were invited here.
[09:43.830 --> 09:46.790]  They may have been invited by our former mayor.
[09:46.970 --> 09:47.750]  Who is that again?
[09:48.470 --> 09:49.570]  I'm trying to forget.
[09:49.750 --> 09:49.870]  Yeah.
[09:51.470 --> 09:55.870]  Anyway, it's a bad idea, but the thing is it's happening and nobody can stop it.
[09:56.050 --> 10:02.790]  And a lot of people out there in the hacker world, outside the hacker world, are going to be part of this in some way.
[10:03.010 --> 10:05.030]  I hear a lot of people saying they're going to be at the protests.
[10:05.870 --> 10:09.010]  And that's something that, you know, is good.
[10:09.130 --> 10:10.070]  It's good to protest things.
[10:10.150 --> 10:14.730]  It's good to be out there and, you know, knowing what you're standing for, knowing what you believe in.
[10:16.390 --> 10:18.810]  But it's important also to know the risks, to know the dangers.
[10:18.950 --> 10:21.690]  Now, Mike, you're involved in some of this.
[10:21.910 --> 10:22.510]  Right, I am.
[10:22.650 --> 10:26.670]  Now, do people know what kinds of things are going to be going on this weekend?
[10:26.670 --> 10:27.310]  Sure.
[10:28.050 --> 10:31.150]  There's going to be a lot going on starting Wednesday or Thursday.
[10:32.090 --> 10:36.110]  With Saturday, February 2nd, is going to be the main day of action.
[10:36.250 --> 10:37.110]  It's Groundhog Day, isn't it?
[10:37.450 --> 10:37.630]  Yeah.
[10:38.090 --> 10:40.890]  So all the Secret Service agents will be out protecting the Groundhogs.
[10:40.970 --> 10:41.530]  I hope so.
[10:42.350 --> 10:45.410]  Unfortunately, I think there will still be enough left to harass us.
[10:46.930 --> 10:55.530]  So the main march is leaving from 59th Street and 5th Ave, the southeast corner of Central Park.
[10:55.570 --> 10:56.290]  Oh, that's where it is.
[10:56.290 --> 10:57.790]  Okay, I've heard so many different things.
[10:57.890 --> 11:01.050]  I heard Union Square, and then I heard Columbus Circle, but this is sort of in the middle.
[11:01.110 --> 11:04.990]  The main march is leaving from the southeast corner of Central Park at noon.
[11:05.190 --> 11:05.390]  Okay.
[11:05.450 --> 11:07.290]  There's going to be a... that's permitted.
[11:08.390 --> 11:09.070]  Perfectly legal.
[11:09.410 --> 11:11.190]  By the way you said that, you mean you have a permit.
[11:11.290 --> 11:11.970]  No, it's permitted.
[11:12.190 --> 11:13.110]  It means you permitted.
[11:13.670 --> 11:17.770]  There exists a police document saying we have the right to be there.
[11:17.890 --> 11:18.090]  Okay.
[11:19.050 --> 11:20.470]  So it's legal.
[11:20.690 --> 11:25.390]  We can't promise that the police will respect that, but it's as low risk as you can get.
[11:25.390 --> 11:29.770]  The important thing to do, and this is something that increasing numbers of people have done over the years, is document it yourself.
[11:30.110 --> 11:31.010]  Bring your cameras.
[11:31.270 --> 11:33.090]  Bring, you know, recording equipment of all sorts.
[11:33.310 --> 11:36.710]  That way, if there is something that happens, it's documented.
[11:36.990 --> 11:40.630]  You know, and that's what the whole indie media scene is all about.
[11:40.630 --> 11:45.830]  That's what we're trying to do as far as getting things covered in ways the mass media won't do.
[11:45.830 --> 12:00.770]  And BAI, fortunately we have the radio station back now, so I can actually say, I could not say this if this happened a year ago or even a month ago, you can tune to this radio station over the weekend for updates and for coverage, and hopefully there'll be a lot of that.
[12:01.310 --> 12:01.530]  Right.
[12:01.530 --> 12:04.130]  So, how can people get involved in what you're doing?
[12:05.270 --> 12:07.690]  Well, they should come to the march on Saturday.
[12:08.410 --> 12:15.310]  A group of us up at Columbia and working with students around the country are holding a conference on Thursday and Friday.
[12:16.090 --> 12:22.170]  So for more information on that, they can check out our website, which is studentsforglobaljustice.org.
[12:24.710 --> 12:29.690]  The coalition planning the permanent march is called the Another World is Possible Coalition.
[12:29.950 --> 12:32.890]  So their website is anotherworldispossible.com.
[12:33.150 --> 12:35.310]  .org is somebody else who you don't want to go to.
[12:35.770 --> 12:36.810]  So, be careful.
[12:36.890 --> 12:37.490]  Typical, okay.
[12:37.850 --> 12:40.050]  You see, if we were corporations, we'd be in court about this.
[12:40.230 --> 12:45.910]  Right, and .net is yet a third person who are pretty nice, but they're not the people I'm talking about.
[12:45.910 --> 12:47.150]  What about .info and .biz?
[12:47.230 --> 12:48.030]  I don't know about that.
[12:49.050 --> 12:52.990]  Okay, you're going to reserve your domain names now, because otherwise somebody else will do it.
[12:54.310 --> 12:57.230]  Okay, have you heard about the site raisethefist.com?
[12:58.070 --> 12:58.950]  Raisethefist.com.
[12:59.170 --> 12:59.610]  Yes.
[12:59.790 --> 13:00.950]  I don't recall what it is.
[13:01.210 --> 13:05.930]  Well, it's one of those activist sites, I guess is the best way to describe it.
[13:06.030 --> 13:10.590]  Well, actually, it's not an activist site anymore, because it was raided last week.
[13:12.370 --> 13:14.850]  I believe it was January 23rd.
[13:14.850 --> 13:18.710]  I'll read what they have, what they've released so far.
[13:19.330 --> 13:29.170]  Heavily armed with high-powered machine guns, shotguns, handguns, the FBI, Secret Service, and Los Angeles Police Department surrounded the founder of raisethefist.com in his house.
[13:29.290 --> 13:32.230]  Now, for some reason, this release just refers to him as the founder.
[13:32.350 --> 13:34.990]  It's kind of like nobody beats the whiz, you know, the noble founder.
[13:35.190 --> 13:38.010]  But it's pretty easy to find out who it is just by doing a who-is on the site.
[13:38.750 --> 13:45.070]  The founder was currently asleep, woken up by a relative who said FBI, police, and undercovers were currently up and down all the streets.
[13:47.290 --> 13:50.450]  Basically, they seized all the servers and political literature.
[13:51.710 --> 13:57.690]  Raisethefist.com is currently being run in a room of a house over a computer network, obviously.
[13:58.250 --> 13:59.630]  The room was literally ransacked.
[13:59.630 --> 14:04.650]  Checked all equipment, discs, CDs, etc., were boxed up, loaded into a truck, and seized until further noticed.
[14:05.590 --> 14:09.530]  Since 1999, raisethefist.com has been under extensive government monitoring.
[14:09.870 --> 14:13.250]  At times, raisethefist.com has received over 100 hits from the U.S.
[14:13.550 --> 14:14.990]  Department of Defense in a single day.
[14:15.230 --> 14:20.190]  The FBI, Police Department, NSA, continually monitors the site on a daily basis.
[14:20.190 --> 14:27.710]  Even governments from the U.K., Canada, Latvia, Belgium, Egypt, Finland, Australia, they all checked into the site from time to time.
[14:28.450 --> 14:39.230]  Um, I'm not exactly sure how they know this, but they claim the FBI had also previously intercepted all packets going through the DSL line hosting the site and have seized additional accounts being used by the site.
[14:40.230 --> 14:47.710]  Um, it's not yet known if, uh, this is, this is a, uh, a quote from the person actually running the site.
[14:47.830 --> 14:49.910]  It's not yet known at this point if the site will be back up.
[14:49.990 --> 14:52.510]  As of now, we have nothing, no more servers, no more network, nothing.
[14:52.830 --> 14:55.390]  My room remains completely ransacked.
[14:55.390 --> 14:58.510]  Uh, my neighbors remain shaken up by what happened.
[14:58.770 --> 15:00.630]  I most likely won't be getting any of the equipment back.
[15:01.030 --> 15:02.870]  They also took a lot of my political literature.
[15:03.270 --> 15:07.230]  Apparently, their excuse for shutting it down was the militancy portrayed on the site.
[15:07.610 --> 15:08.550]  This is not true.
[15:08.670 --> 15:09.430]  This was an excuse.
[15:09.610 --> 15:18.630]  The same militancy they were concerned about is portrayed on at least a thousand other websites across the Internet, and they haven't been touched by the federal government with the exception of remote monitoring.
[15:19.210 --> 15:20.690]  Raisethefist.com was progressive.
[15:20.890 --> 15:21.690]  It was going somewhere.
[15:21.890 --> 15:24.890]  Kids started creating clubs in their schools called Raise the Fist.
[15:25.110 --> 15:30.410]  People started utilizing the collective as a powerful resource for the activist-slash-anarchist community.
[15:30.670 --> 15:38.030]  The federal government has been investigating me and the site very closely long before 9-1-1, and long before such militancy was even portrayed on the site.
[15:38.190 --> 15:47.570]  They knew the site had potential, that it was turning into something more, that a site but a strong collective utilized by activists throughout the world, committed to social justice, and that's become a crime.
[15:47.930 --> 15:49.130]  Justice has become a crime.
[15:49.250 --> 15:50.210]  Freedom has become a crime.
[15:50.610 --> 15:52.890]  Anyone actively disagreeing with policies of the U.S.
[15:52.890 --> 15:55.970]  has now automatically rendered a terrorist in the eyes of national security.
[15:57.010 --> 15:59.270]  Where Raisethefist.com will go from here, I don't know.
[15:59.450 --> 16:05.130]  Based on what I've been told, I'll most likely be in jail, so most of my focus will be towards getting an attorney.
[16:06.690 --> 16:08.310]  Pretty depressing stuff right there.
[16:09.950 --> 16:20.190]  But I should also point out that it's not that difficult to get an archive of what was on the site.
[16:20.270 --> 16:35.450]  If you go to web.archive.org, and then after that address, type slash web slash star slash http colon slash slash raisethefist.com, you'll see archives of what was on this site.
[16:35.450 --> 16:37.930]  And you can judge for yourself and see how dangerous this site was.
[16:38.310 --> 16:45.370]  I'll tell you, one of the things that was on it that I was able to find from the archive was a picture of a bunch of...
[16:45.370 --> 16:52.310]  I believe these are Palestinian kids running with a quote from Bush saying, either you're with us or you're with the terrorists.
[16:53.190 --> 16:55.450]  And along with this remark, let's get this straight.
[16:55.670 --> 17:03.990]  A president we did not elect, heading a government bought off by corporations, arrogantly and aggressively pushes a pro-corporate domestic agenda and foreign policy.
[17:04.690 --> 17:13.750]  Now, over 6,000 people are dead, and he says we're at war, fighting secret battles against unknown enemies, and he wants everyone to be patriots by forsaking our civil liberties and going shopping.
[17:15.250 --> 17:17.130]  Yeah, I guess that is kind of dangerous talk.
[17:17.790 --> 17:18.990]  Kind of shut things like that down.
[17:20.330 --> 17:31.270]  There's also a really good interview with the founder of Raise the Fist on the San Francisco Indy Media page, which can be reached at sf.indymedia.org.
[17:31.270 --> 17:33.210]  That's spelled I-N-D-Y-M-E-D-I-A.
[17:33.950 --> 17:35.450]  And just look around there.
[17:36.130 --> 17:42.810]  One comment on there, which I think bears repeating, from one of the people reading the interview.
[17:43.010 --> 17:44.190]  I just had a scary thought.
[17:44.370 --> 17:47.070]  First, notice that this incident hasn't hit the mainstream media yet.
[17:47.330 --> 17:52.270]  Second, the feds didn't strike until a page documenting how to construct simple weapons went up.
[17:53.490 --> 17:59.550]  Third, there's a protest coming up next weekend, and the media has been preparing the public to expect something just short of a civil war.
[18:00.170 --> 18:01.350]  Put it all together, folks.
[18:01.450 --> 18:02.110]  I smell a trap.
[18:02.250 --> 18:03.110]  I smell a big trap.
[18:03.190 --> 18:04.790]  The pieces are falling into place.
[18:05.370 --> 18:08.790]  Makes it all the more important to stand up at WF, W-E-F.
[18:08.930 --> 18:10.150]  Stand up, not trash the joint.
[18:10.270 --> 18:13.830]  Next weekend, in my humble opinion, won't be the time for symbolic destruction.
[18:14.010 --> 18:24.770]  Next weekend will be the time to prove demonstrators are not the violent, destructive force the New York media is preparing everyone to expect in anticipation of the, quote, heroic response from the cops who saved New York, unquote.
[18:25.470 --> 18:26.770]  Or am I just being paranoid?
[18:26.910 --> 18:28.070]  Well, I don't think he's being paranoid.
[18:28.070 --> 18:30.670]  I think that's a pretty astute observation.
[18:32.490 --> 18:34.530]  And if you watch the media, it's really...
[18:34.530 --> 18:35.570]  Have you watched the mainstream media?
[18:35.770 --> 18:36.490]  You kind of have to.
[18:36.550 --> 18:37.430]  Just see what they're up to.
[18:37.890 --> 18:46.690]  I've been reading some articles on the New York Times from their website, and I don't enjoy the process.
[18:46.870 --> 18:52.170]  Well, I mean, I was listening to a terrific program we have here on this radio station last week called Counterspin.
[18:52.410 --> 18:52.590]  Right.
[18:52.950 --> 18:54.590]  That's put out by the people at FAIR.
[18:54.650 --> 18:54.850]  FAIR.
[18:54.950 --> 18:57.650]  Fairness and Accu-Sane Reporting, which is a good thing to be.
[18:58.610 --> 19:02.510]  And they read an editorial from the Daily News, which literally threatened violence.
[19:02.710 --> 19:05.490]  The editorial threatened violence against the demonstrators.
[19:05.610 --> 19:10.630]  They say, if you come into our town and cause trouble, you can prepare to have the crap beaten out of you or something like that.
[19:10.630 --> 19:11.490]  It was horrible.
[19:11.730 --> 19:12.710]  It was an embarrassment.
[19:13.230 --> 19:15.590]  And, of course, they didn't rely on any facts whatsoever.
[19:15.590 --> 19:26.310]  They just simply constructed this whole scene out of their own distorted imaginations and turned peaceful protesters into terrorists.
[19:26.710 --> 19:29.730]  They said that we know what terrorism is like and we're not going to put up with it again.
[19:30.330 --> 19:32.390]  And it's just such an insult to see that.
[19:32.530 --> 19:41.470]  Even if you don't agree with what people are marching for, even if you're not sure yourself, to be prejudged that way or to be lumped among the worst possible people.
[19:41.650 --> 19:47.590]  Let's say there are, you know, a dozen people that are really horrible and stupid that happen to be at this thing.
[19:47.690 --> 19:52.290]  Are you going to judge all, however many tens of thousands of people actually show up in the same way?
[19:52.290 --> 19:54.930]  I mean, imagine if it worked the other way, you know?
[19:55.090 --> 19:56.250]  Imagine if you judged...
[19:56.250 --> 19:57.330]  Well, I've got a good example for you.
[19:58.350 --> 20:02.570]  This is something from the Southern Poverty Law Center.
[20:03.370 --> 20:04.870]  They come up with some terrific stuff now.
[20:04.990 --> 20:06.570]  And then splcenter.org.
[20:06.810 --> 20:09.130]  Now, imagine if Americans were judged this way.
[20:09.830 --> 20:11.390]  Over the shortwave radio.
[20:11.770 --> 20:12.610]  You listen to shortwave.
[20:12.690 --> 20:13.810]  I know you listen to shortwave sometimes.
[20:13.830 --> 20:15.290]  I have a shortwave radio in my car now.
[20:15.470 --> 20:16.270]  Not to Americans on shortwave.
[20:16.270 --> 20:20.150]  Well, it's interesting you should say that because this article is about Americans on shortwave.
[20:20.330 --> 20:33.050]  And since this is something that we're sending out to the rest of the world, this is our image that we are sending out over shortwave, which is something that a lot of people here don't listen to, but people all over the place and other parts of the world do listen to.
[20:33.590 --> 20:35.670]  If you turn it on, you can hear all kinds of interesting things.
[20:35.670 --> 20:41.470]  You can hear, you know, BBC and Radio Netherlands and all kinds of interesting news from other perspectives.
[20:43.870 --> 20:52.850]  Well, if you listen to what comes out of this country, you might be tempted to judge us based on the worst that you hear.
[20:54.570 --> 20:56.190]  It's called From America With Hate.
[20:58.050 --> 20:58.790]  Here's a quote.
[21:00.150 --> 21:03.630]  I'll tell you what, to the stinking sodomites out there, I'd like to beat you up.
[21:03.670 --> 21:04.350]  You make me sick.
[21:04.350 --> 21:09.530]  Looking at the pictures I've just seen today, a bunch of stinking sodomite faggots, what you need is to be burned alive.
[21:09.530 --> 21:20.470]  That quote coming from Nathan, a 17-year-old member of Pastor John Lewis's congregation, aired on shortwave station WWFV of McKaysville, Georgia, on May 16, 2001.
[21:21.230 --> 21:34.610]  Emanating from half a dozen shortwave radio stations scattered around the United States, the angry shouts and slurs of radical Americans are being beamed around the world to Japanese fishermen, Australian businessmen, and untold millions of other people.
[21:35.170 --> 21:39.110]  As people around the globe turn the knobs on their shortwave radios, hate speech.
[21:39.330 --> 21:47.510]  Everything from the homophobic savagery of a 17-year-old Georgia boy to the calls of revolution of a neo-Nazi West Virginian is more and more difficult to avoid.
[21:47.690 --> 21:51.490]  And the vast majority of these broadcasts are coming from America.
[21:52.390 --> 21:55.190]  Turn the tuning knob once or twice.
[21:55.350 --> 22:06.970]  Coming in clearly from WWCR in Nashville, Tennessee, anti-Semitic Colorado preacher Pete Peters is shouting, The Bible, Peter's thunders, says it's okay to kill homosexuals.
[22:07.210 --> 22:16.290]  Give the knob another twist, and there is neo-Nazi William Pierce, leader of the National Alliance, describing Jews as a plague from his West Virginia home.
[22:18.490 --> 22:27.650]  Or, tune in to WBCQ, the main station that began broadcasting shortwave a few years ago under the motto, Peace, Love, and Understanding.
[22:28.310 --> 22:28.550]  Ha!
[22:29.170 --> 22:30.730]  Tonight, Hal Turner is on.
[22:31.170 --> 22:36.850]  Some of these lazy-ass Latinos have got a lot of nerve, Turner hisses in a broadcast with a potential audience in the millions.
[22:37.050 --> 22:44.630]  It's bad enough that a whole bunch of them are slithering across the border with wetbacks and then bringing their savage third-world ways to the streets of civilized America.
[22:44.870 --> 22:51.750]  But then, once some of them get acclimated and assimilated, then they turn around and start saying that we should adapt to their view.
[22:51.910 --> 22:52.670]  Well, I'm sorry.
[22:52.890 --> 23:00.730]  America thrives because we rejected the third-world savagery, the third-world muck from which these people slithered and I see no reason why we should adopt their policy.
[23:01.050 --> 23:03.650]  That's the kind of garbage you hear on shortwave coming out of America.
[23:03.790 --> 23:04.410]  I think that's enough.
[23:05.230 --> 23:06.230]  Yeah, actually, they thought so, too.
[23:07.110 --> 23:12.910]  Extremists in the last 20 years have increasingly taken to new forms of communication to get their messages out to the widest possible audience.
[23:13.410 --> 23:20.450]  In the 1980s, they began broadcasting on cable television using local access laws to get racist, anti-Semitic, or homophobic broadcasts aired.
[23:20.950 --> 23:26.310]  Soon, they were convincing large numbers of AM and FM stations to carry similar broadcasts often for free.
[23:26.310 --> 23:33.070]  It wasn't long before they went international on the internet, putting up worldwide webpages that could be accessed from points around the globe.
[23:33.310 --> 23:35.150]  And they discovered shortwave.
[23:35.430 --> 23:49.190]  In 1991, Tom Valentine apparently became the first American to use shortwave for far-right programming, kicking off a show that was broadcast from a studio in Clearwater, Florida, and underwritten by the Spotlight newspaper, a weekly published by the anti-Semitic Liberty Lobby.
[23:49.750 --> 24:00.810]  Although Valentine tended toward the conspiratorial rather than race, he also hosted anti-Semites like Eustace Mullins and Willis Carto who founded Liberty Lobby in 1955.
[24:02.010 --> 24:09.390]  Valentine's show, which was often featured in the spotlight and was successful in gaining a sizable audience, soon convinced other far-right luminaries to go to shortwave.
[24:09.390 --> 24:15.490]  By 1993, a dozen far-right talk show hosts were buying airtime on three high-power shortwave stations.
[24:15.790 --> 24:27.250]  Two years later, in 1995, 28 far-right hosts were buying some 560 hours of airtime a month and today, an estimated 1,100 hours are sold every month to the radical right.
[24:29.590 --> 24:30.430]  That's interesting.
[24:30.550 --> 24:37.810]  You know, I wonder why that particular group of people is so drawn to this and why other groups of people aren't.
[24:38.770 --> 24:41.930]  Why isn't there an indie media hour or something on these stations?
[24:42.790 --> 24:44.830]  Why aren't there leftists on the radio?
[24:45.450 --> 24:46.150]  There are some.
[24:46.430 --> 24:49.610]  Radio for Peace International out of Costa Rica is pretty nice.
[24:50.110 --> 24:51.110]  But that's Costa Rica.
[24:51.230 --> 24:51.910]  That's not in America.
[24:51.910 --> 24:52.290]  That's true.
[24:52.470 --> 24:54.090]  That's the point I'm trying to make here.
[24:54.350 --> 25:01.830]  Why is it all these stations cater to these people and why is it that we don't seem to have an intelligent response or an alternative?
[25:02.030 --> 25:04.050]  I mean, a lot of people, this is their taste of America.
[25:04.250 --> 25:05.870]  They turn on the radio, they hear this.
[25:06.650 --> 25:08.750]  And when I go overseas, I have to deal with this.
[25:08.870 --> 25:11.450]  I have to try to explain, you know, there are some decent people in our country.
[25:11.590 --> 25:17.530]  We're not all a bunch of, you know, racist homophobes that, you know, don't care about the rest of the world and like to pave over everything in sight.
[25:18.310 --> 25:20.590]  But it's becoming increasingly difficult to do that.
[25:21.810 --> 25:36.350]  So, yeah, imagine, imagine when you see the news reports and they find the one person who threw a rock at somebody or something and they make all however many thousands of people are there into that person.
[25:36.550 --> 25:38.450]  Just imagine how we look to the rest of the world.
[25:39.630 --> 25:41.230]  Okay, tonight is an exciting night.
[25:41.370 --> 25:55.570]  Tonight's the night of the State of the Union Address and this is the first time, the first ever White House webcast, isn't this exciting, of the State of the Union Address will occur on the White House homepage, www.whitehouse.gov.
[25:56.030 --> 25:57.630]  That's starting at 9 p.m.
[25:58.390 --> 26:03.470]  Visitors to the website can view the State of the Union live or visit the site later for viewing on demand.
[26:03.950 --> 26:07.290]  This optimism just strikes me as being really funny.
[26:07.550 --> 26:16.690]  Do they really think that they're possibly going to be able to handle all the people that want to see it live at the same time, video streaming from whitehouse.gov?
[26:16.850 --> 26:17.410]  Do they really think?
[26:17.510 --> 26:17.810]  And they're going
[26:23.530 --> 26:31.230]  maybe because you have a T1 going to the White House and you just invited like 300 million people to visit your site at the same time and stream video.
[26:31.230 --> 26:34.710]  Maybe that's the reason why you're down for like several weeks.
[26:35.810 --> 26:36.570]  But we'll see.
[26:36.710 --> 26:37.670]  Maybe I'm wrong.
[26:37.750 --> 26:39.610]  Maybe they actually do have the capacity to do this.
[26:39.670 --> 26:40.170]  I'd like to know.
[26:40.310 --> 26:40.850]  I'd like to know.
[26:40.950 --> 26:44.610]  But you might want to start reserving your place on the website right now.
[26:44.730 --> 26:45.550]  What time is this?
[26:45.750 --> 26:46.970]  It starts at 9 p.m.
[26:53.110 --> 26:54.090]  It's what George W.
[26:54.230 --> 26:55.110]  Bush has to say.
[26:55.130 --> 26:55.950]  Does he have anything to say?
[26:56.030 --> 26:56.650]  I really doubt it.
[26:56.650 --> 26:57.530]  It's not what he has to say.
[26:57.590 --> 26:58.690]  It's what he might say.
[26:58.850 --> 27:01.670]  You know, the goofiness that might, you know, go on.
[27:02.630 --> 27:03.910]  It's, you know, it's sort of like a circus.
[27:04.030 --> 27:05.290]  You don't know what's going to happen next.
[27:05.470 --> 27:06.850]  Will it be the elephant or the clown?
[27:06.990 --> 27:07.510]  You don't know.
[27:08.690 --> 27:09.770]  It's just, it's a lot of fun.
[27:10.210 --> 27:15.450]  Anyway, close captioning of the address and the transcript will be posted following delivery as soon as people figure out just what he said.
[27:17.130 --> 27:24.350]  And in addition to the webcast, the website features a historic look at the State of the Union, a message delivered by the President since George Washington first delivered in 1790.
[27:24.410 --> 27:26.850]  But that was not streamed and there's no video of that.
[27:28.370 --> 27:30.190]  So, yeah, that ought to be interesting as well.
[27:30.470 --> 27:36.110]  Here's something else that I find to be incredibly embarrassing and something I have to explain to people when I go overseas.
[27:36.830 --> 27:38.370]  This is on CNN.com.
[27:39.430 --> 27:42.710]  $8,000 cover-up for Justice Department's exposed statue.
[27:42.930 --> 27:45.290]  This is what people in our country are worried about.
[27:45.670 --> 27:52.330]  They're worried about statues that have nudity in them.
[27:53.210 --> 27:55.370]  Over in other parts of the world, it's not an issue.
[27:56.150 --> 27:57.970]  People have nudity and it's not an issue.
[27:58.030 --> 27:59.850]  In this country, I can't figure it out.
[27:59.910 --> 28:00.510]  I really can't.
[28:00.750 --> 28:08.750]  The big controversy is TV shows where they show someone from the back and that's supposed to be considered nudity.
[28:08.870 --> 28:10.870]  In other countries, they laugh at us.
[28:10.930 --> 28:11.310]  They really do.
[28:12.510 --> 28:14.010]  Anyway, there's a cover-up of the U.S.
[28:14.110 --> 28:14.710]  Justice Department.
[28:15.390 --> 28:25.410]  Justice Department spokeswoman said Monday about $8,000 has been spent for curtains to conceal two art deco aluminum statues of semi-nude figures in the building's Great Hall.
[28:25.810 --> 28:30.930]  At one end of the stage is a 1930s-era female statue representing the spirit of justice.
[28:31.630 --> 28:35.510]  Though she wears a toga-style garment, one breast is exposed.
[28:35.810 --> 28:42.450]  At the other end of the stage, a male statue represents the majesty of justice and has a cloth draped by his waist.
[28:42.850 --> 28:51.590]  Justice Department spokeswoman Barbara Comstock said said the decision to install the curtains was made by Attorney General John Ashcroft's aide who handles advanced work.
[28:51.770 --> 28:54.650]  It was done for TV aesthetics, she said.
[28:54.850 --> 28:55.930]  TV aesthetics.
[28:56.350 --> 28:59.850]  The whole world has to be modified to fit into TV.
[29:01.130 --> 29:08.630]  When Ashcroft on November 8th announced plans to restructure the Justice Department to focus on terrorism after the...
[29:09.290 --> 29:14.310]  I imagine he meant to focus on the prevention of terrorism, not to focus on terrorism, but...
[29:14.310 --> 29:15.370]  I don't know.
[29:15.510 --> 29:15.890]  Maybe...
[29:15.890 --> 29:16.390]  Maybe it's a...
[29:16.390 --> 29:18.010]  Have you seen some of his new programs?
[29:18.010 --> 29:18.750]  Yeah, you know what?
[29:18.790 --> 29:19.490]  You might be right.
[29:20.110 --> 29:28.970]  Well, anyway, he was announcing those plans after the September 11th incidents, and photographers took pictures showing him with the towering female statue in the background.
[29:28.970 --> 29:30.310]  You could see her breast.
[29:31.450 --> 29:32.430]  Next to John Ashcroft.
[29:32.450 --> 29:38.750]  Do you know what kind of message that sends to the children to see a female breast in the back of somebody on a statue?
[29:39.610 --> 29:40.410]  My God.
[29:41.510 --> 29:45.150]  All those children who watch John Ashcroft's addresses.
[29:45.750 --> 29:50.750]  Yeah, well, they should be happy they're taking their eyes off his face, you know, and looking at something a little bit more healthy.
[29:51.610 --> 29:53.430]  He did not know this was being done.
[29:53.890 --> 29:55.110]  What was being done?
[29:55.210 --> 29:56.430]  That there was a statue in the background?
[29:56.530 --> 29:57.470]  He did not know this.
[29:57.550 --> 30:00.230]  I can't believe this is considered an incident in this country.
[30:01.110 --> 30:02.530]  He did not know this was being done.
[30:02.530 --> 30:04.970]  The Attorney General has more important things to do.
[30:04.970 --> 30:06.970]  than worry about what appears in pictures.
[30:07.130 --> 30:10.470]  Well, I kind of agree that that should be the case with everybody, but apparently it's not.
[30:11.010 --> 30:19.530]  The statues were hidden by curtains on November 20th when President Bush came to the Justice Department to name the building after the assassinated former Attorney Attorney General Robert Kennedy.
[30:20.350 --> 30:21.710]  Those curtains were rented.
[30:24.050 --> 30:32.510]  So the decision had to be made to buy dark blue curtains and install them because it would be more cost efficient than, I guess, continuously renting them.
[30:33.830 --> 30:42.810]  Monday, a day with no public events in the Great Hall, the curtains with the Justice Department emblem in the center were placed across the stage, concealing the statues entirely.
[30:44.190 --> 30:51.870]  A former Justice Department official emailed a copy of an article about the statues to colleagues adding the caption Homeland Security.
[30:53.070 --> 31:00.310]  The most famous picture of the female statue came in the 1980s when Attorney General Edwin Meese released the final report of his commission on pornography.
[31:02.210 --> 31:10.530]  I'm not sure what that means, if it was in the background while he was doing that or if that was part of his report, but regardless, what a bunch of idiots.
[31:11.150 --> 31:12.730]  I mean, this is what we focus on.
[31:12.810 --> 31:15.730]  This is what we consider important.
[31:17.070 --> 31:17.910]  Oh, it's sad.
[31:18.070 --> 31:18.490]  It really is.
[31:19.370 --> 31:21.710]  Okay, do we have any exciting news bits?
[31:22.790 --> 31:27.090]  Very quickly, a couple of things and we'll take some phone calls.
[31:27.650 --> 31:35.070]  China's cyber police have been handing sweeping powers of control over the internet as the communist authorities tightened their grip on access to information.
[31:35.330 --> 31:42.670]  Just weeks after joining the World Trade Organization, the Chinese government has begun a major censorship drive on its web-surfing citizens.
[31:43.290 --> 31:51.570]  New laws force Chinese internet service providers to spy on their customers and provide detailed information to the government about their internet-surfing habits.
[31:52.770 --> 31:55.210]  Yeah, China will shape up as soon as they join the WTO.
[31:55.310 --> 31:56.010]  Makes sense, doesn't that?
[31:56.070 --> 31:56.510]  Of course.
[31:56.770 --> 32:00.090]  You know, capitalism equals democracy or something like that.
[32:00.150 --> 32:00.850]  No, I'm serious.
[32:00.970 --> 32:01.610]  They did shape up.
[32:01.670 --> 32:02.790]  We just have to shape up now.
[32:02.790 --> 32:04.690]  We're, you know, we're lagging behind.
[32:05.430 --> 32:06.090]  We're trying.
[32:06.210 --> 32:06.570]  We're trying.
[32:06.870 --> 32:10.170]  Well, we're doing a pretty good job by this standard.
[32:10.870 --> 32:13.970]  An A for effort, but, you know, so far a C for results.
[32:14.210 --> 32:21.270]  People are still cruising the net with, you know, wanton abandon and going places that you wouldn't want to go if you were in kindergarten.
[32:21.670 --> 32:22.710]  But never mind.
[32:23.070 --> 32:27.170]  The Kremlin gained a near monopoly of Russia's national television stations yesterday.
[32:27.770 --> 32:29.270]  Actually, this was a few days ago.
[32:29.390 --> 32:35.950]  This was probably Wednesday, last Wednesday, when the independent broadcaster TV 6 was abruptly taken off the air.
[32:36.610 --> 32:39.950]  Its journalists found themselves muzzled for the second time in less than a year.
[32:40.370 --> 32:46.850]  Most moved to the channel when their old station, NTV, was taken over by state-backed management last spring.
[32:47.590 --> 32:54.690]  Russia's press ministry pulled the plug on TV 6 at midnight in compliance with a court order to suspend its license and wind up the company.
[32:55.450 --> 33:00.090]  Minority shareholders have exploited the defunct law to have the station declared bankrupt.
[33:00.730 --> 33:08.590]  Staff at the channel expected to learn their fate later this week, but discovered that their programs have been taken off the air overnight, and even their phone lines temporarily cut.
[33:09.230 --> 33:12.070]  The closure provided an outcry across the political spectrum.
[33:12.290 --> 33:16.850]  It was a stupid thing to do and a major mistake, said Boris Nemtsov, a leading liberal.
[33:17.150 --> 33:22.350]  It was absolutely unacceptable, the Communist Party leader Gennady Zaganov said.
[33:23.070 --> 33:34.270]  Viewers who switched on TV 6 yesterday morning, again, this was last week sometime, expecting to see its mix of hard-hitting news and entertainment, found a Sports Channel's coverage of the Australian Open Tennis Tournament instead.
[33:36.010 --> 33:41.510]  Yeah, that's, uh, the world is just getting to be one, uh, one closed community, isn't it?
[33:43.010 --> 33:57.010]  Okay, book a flight in the future, and computers could start zipping your name through dozens of databases to see if you've recently visited a hostile country, paid for a ticket in cash, or caught the attention of, uh, immigration officials or the FBI.
[33:57.330 --> 34:05.930]  The goal is to track whether a traveler's past behavior, not race race or ethnicity, not only race or ethnicity, it is, uh, fits the profile of a terrorist.
[34:06.250 --> 34:21.410]  That, according to Representative Mike Honda, his vision for the future of air security, uh, means that he's pushing a bill to spend 15 million dollars to start designing such a system, which could mean big business for Silicon Valley companies, which happens to be where he's from.
[34:22.170 --> 34:32.270]  Uh, cross-matching law enforcement records and private travel data could give authorities weeks to track down suspicious passengers or flag questionable travelers in their bags if they buy tickets the day of the flight.
[34:32.810 --> 34:38.610]  It's not profiling in the traditional terminology, said Honda, who sits on the House Aviation Subcommittee.
[34:38.910 --> 34:47.090]  I'm speaking of mapping people's movements and determining if they require extra scrutiny, profiling on behavior, not on appearance, race, or ethnicity.
[34:47.870 --> 34:55.490]  He said current requirements to screen luggage, matching bags with passengers, hand searches, or sending bags through bomb detection machines don't go far enough.
[34:55.790 --> 35:00.290]  The bottom line is, how do you know that people on the flight manifest are okay, not just their bags?
[35:00.310 --> 35:01.210]  You have to profile.
[35:02.910 --> 35:14.990]  So, um, basically what this means is if you do certain things that they say are, uh, are suspicious, uh, that makes you into somebody that has to, uh, be looked at a little bit more closely.
[35:15.170 --> 35:21.970]  Now, I predict the system will become a dismal failure when they realize that the people who travel the most and on the shortest notice are business people.
[35:22.090 --> 35:22.490]  That's true.
[35:22.610 --> 35:22.950]  That's true.
[35:23.110 --> 35:27.090]  I don't understand why, just because you buy a one-way ticket, you're, you're immediately suspicious.
[35:27.570 --> 35:29.330]  You know, they, they claim that that's true.
[35:29.450 --> 35:31.770]  But what if you don't want to come back, you know?
[35:32.450 --> 35:36.370]  I mean, what if you, what if you're going back to a different place than where you're, you're starting from?
[35:36.570 --> 35:38.330]  Or what if it's actually cheaper to travel on?
[35:38.410 --> 35:38.910]  Sometimes it is.
[35:38.990 --> 35:39.610]  Sometimes it is cheaper.
[35:40.090 --> 35:40.570]  You know?
[35:41.010 --> 35:43.590]  Or what if you decide to buy something with cash?
[35:44.490 --> 35:44.970]  You know?
[35:45.090 --> 35:46.930]  A lot of poor people use cash.
[35:47.190 --> 35:48.370]  They don't have credit cards.
[35:49.790 --> 35:52.890]  I guess a lot of poor people are, uh, you know, are suspicious.
[35:53.230 --> 35:55.030]  I guess that's the conclusion we have to reach.
[35:57.250 --> 35:58.830]  Oh, well, you learn something new every day.
[35:59.710 --> 36:05.250]  Uh, okay, let's take a look at some, uh, listener mail, and then we'll take some phone calls 212-209-2900.
[36:06.950 --> 36:11.610]  Some really bad news, and this is something that, uh, I take a personal, uh, interest in.
[36:12.130 --> 36:13.110]  I don't know if you heard about this.
[36:13.190 --> 36:14.150]  They canceled Family Guy.
[36:14.850 --> 36:15.170]  Oh.
[36:15.710 --> 36:16.030]  Oh?
[36:16.190 --> 36:17.550]  That wasn't bad for television.
[36:17.690 --> 36:18.490]  That was great for television.
[36:18.570 --> 36:22.010]  It was one of the things that made me convinced that there was somebody at Fox who had a brain.
[36:22.690 --> 36:25.830]  Uh, but, uh, yeah, as of, uh, a couple days ago, they canceled it.
[36:25.870 --> 36:26.890]  There's a petition going around.
[36:27.630 --> 36:38.230]  You know, the, the, the guy that, uh, that, that, uh, Wright's Family Guy and does most of the voices was, was supposed to be on one of the planes that crashed into, uh, the World Trade Center, and he missed his plane by, like, five minutes.
[36:38.670 --> 36:44.770]  And I know how frustrating that feels, but I don't know how he must have felt after learning what his fate would have been had he made that flight.
[36:44.910 --> 36:48.990]  But, uh, you know, you don't cancel somebody's show after they live through an experience like that.
[36:48.990 --> 36:49.470]  I'm sorry.
[36:51.170 --> 36:56.970]  So, um, www.petitiononline.com slash savefg2.
[36:57.210 --> 36:59.090]  S-A-V-E-F-G-2.
[36:59.870 --> 37:01.310]  And, uh, sign that.
[37:02.370 --> 37:05.930]  Um, and save, uh, what could be one of the wittiest programs on TV.
[37:06.310 --> 37:08.250]  You know, I'm always suspicious of online petitions.
[37:08.370 --> 37:08.510]  Yeah, I am too.
[37:08.510 --> 37:09.410]  I never seem to do much.
[37:09.410 --> 37:10.270]  Well, what else can you do?
[37:10.350 --> 37:11.810]  I guess we could pick it outside Fox.
[37:11.990 --> 37:12.330]  I might be something.
[37:12.330 --> 37:12.730]  We could write a letter.
[37:13.430 --> 37:14.110]  Yeah, right.
[37:14.190 --> 37:15.410]  You think they can read over there?
[37:15.490 --> 37:16.030]  I don't think so.
[37:16.670 --> 37:17.310]  It's Fox.
[37:17.450 --> 37:17.830]  Come on.
[37:18.690 --> 37:28.510]  Maybe if we send a savage tiger or something or we just, like, you know, stick them in a room and keep turning the temperature up until they agree to, uh, I don't know, use their own programming against them.
[37:29.870 --> 37:32.010]  But, uh, yeah, that would make me very unhappy.
[37:32.210 --> 37:33.710]  I mean, that was one of the things I was proud of.
[37:33.770 --> 37:41.870]  When I went overseas, I'd say, okay, look, you can say we're a bunch of, you know, backward idiots that, uh, you know, spew racism all the time and just, you know, bomb people all over the world.
[37:42.010 --> 37:42.770]  But look at this.
[37:42.850 --> 37:44.750]  Look at this TV show that we came up with.
[37:45.370 --> 37:46.310]  Doesn't that make it all right?
[37:46.310 --> 37:47.710]  And most of the times they said yes.
[37:49.030 --> 37:51.790]  So hopefully, uh, hopefully we can, we can do something positive.
[37:52.390 --> 38:06.450]  Uh, oh yeah, another announcement, uh, as we mentioned last week, the, uh, documentary that we made, Freedom Down Time, is showing at the, um, um, New York, um, film, New York International Independent Film and Video Festival.
[38:06.710 --> 38:12.130]  That's a mouthful, but it's taking place, starts, uh, next week and, uh, runs for about ten days, I think.
[38:12.550 --> 38:14.250]  Uh, and we have a screening.
[38:14.410 --> 38:16.350]  We actually have a screening of our documentary.
[38:16.690 --> 38:23.190]  I may sound shocked, but that's because, you know, I'm always shocked when someone actually, you know, takes an interest in, in something like this.
[38:23.710 --> 38:27.430]  Uh, and we're showing it in a real theater in Midtown Manhattan.
[38:27.770 --> 38:31.050]  You know, I can't stress enough, this is probably the best showing we will ever have of this film.
[38:31.330 --> 38:38.750]  I mean, it is going to come out on video and, uh, we'll have screenings at hacker conferences, but I don't think we're going to have one in Midtown Manhattan in a New York City theater.
[38:39.270 --> 38:50.190]  Now, the thing is, um, I get email from these people that are running the, the, um, the, um, festival, and they list all the films that are being shown and how they're doing so far.
[38:50.590 --> 38:57.190]  And wouldn't you know, uh, our own Gary Null, who does a program here on this radio station every day, a health program, he has a film too.
[38:57.430 --> 38:59.990]  And his film has been selling like you wouldn't believe.
[39:00.230 --> 39:01.950]  They've, they've sold, they have two showings now.
[39:02.070 --> 39:04.630]  They have, they sold something like, like 450, 500 tickets.
[39:06.670 --> 39:08.430]  We've sold 17 tickets, folks.
[39:08.750 --> 39:09.070]  17.
[39:09.670 --> 39:17.170]  I'm, I'm, you know, maybe, maybe people are having trouble finding their credit cards or something, or they just, you know, they, they may be a bit wary thinking that, uh, we're kidding.
[39:17.270 --> 39:17.810]  We're not kidding.
[39:17.930 --> 39:18.530]  We're not kidding.
[39:19.130 --> 39:26.830]  If, uh, 17 people are in a theater that, uh, is meant to hold 300, it, uh, no matter how good the film is, and I don't know, you know, it's up to you how good the film is.
[39:27.330 --> 39:30.470]  It's going to seem like it sucks because there won't be anybody there.
[39:30.910 --> 39:33.950]  So please, please, please, um, uh, come by.
[39:34.070 --> 39:34.730]  It's going to be fun.
[39:34.810 --> 39:35.670]  We, you know, we scheduled this.
[39:35.790 --> 39:36.430]  We convinced them.
[39:36.490 --> 39:49.510]  We said, look, schedule this for the middle of a day on a weekend, you know, when you would have normally a blockbuster release, put us there because we have a lot of people that go to school and a lot of people that work hard hours, and, uh, this is the only time they can make it,
[39:49.590 --> 39:55.030]  and we guarantee you, we guarantee you that, uh, you know, we can fill that place up with, uh, enthusiastic people.
[39:56.530 --> 39:58.030]  So, don't make idiots out of us.
[39:58.150 --> 39:59.150]  Don't make liars out of us.
[39:59.270 --> 40:00.290]  Please come to this thing.
[40:00.390 --> 40:02.010]  Please, uh, sign up and get your ticket.
[40:02.010 --> 40:03.270]  You actually get tickets in the mail.
[40:03.370 --> 40:04.670]  I'm not sure if you'll still get them in the mail.
[40:04.770 --> 40:05.710]  It's kind of getting kind of close.
[40:05.870 --> 40:19.870]  The screening is Saturday, February 9th, 2 p.m., uh, and for tickets, there's two ways you can get tickets, uh, by visiting www.nyfilmvideo.com That's one word, nyfilmvideo.com and just look for Freedom Downtime.
[40:20.330 --> 40:28.470]  Or you can actually call a toll-free number with one of those new toll-free area codes, 866-468-7619.
[40:29.970 --> 40:31.430]  866-468-7619.
[40:31.430 --> 40:37.450]  And just, uh, tell them that you are interested in seeing Freedom Downtime at the, uh, Film Festival in New York on February 9th.
[40:37.810 --> 40:38.690]  And it's that simple.
[40:39.350 --> 40:43.470]  Uh, again, it shows at the Sutton One Theater, 205 East 57th Street, 3rd Avenue.
[40:43.570 --> 40:44.770]  Now, yeah, I know what you're thinking.
[40:44.930 --> 40:45.970]  I can just show up then.
[40:46.130 --> 40:46.710]  Well, maybe.
[40:46.870 --> 40:49.750]  But if we actually do sell this thing out, you won't be able to get in.
[40:49.930 --> 40:50.690]  You know, that's the thing.
[40:50.790 --> 40:54.350]  And plus, it just makes us feel so much better knowing there's going to be people there.
[40:54.470 --> 41:05.910]  You know, right now we're, we've printed up all these, uh, little cards and brochures and things like that to get people to take an interest and we have the thing going with the blimp over the city and, uh, the sky writing and, uh, we rented out the Empire State Building.
[41:06.350 --> 41:08.050]  I don't know if anybody's going to understand what it's saying.
[41:09.010 --> 41:10.170]  We just want to get people there.
[41:10.330 --> 41:24.430]  So, uh, again, www.myfilmvideo.com or 866-468-7619 or just visit our website, www.2600.com and see the documentary about the whole free Kevin movement and the hacker world and, uh, all kinds of other things like that.
[41:24.490 --> 41:27.330]  We have one of the, uh, uh, actually, are you both in the same band?
[41:27.470 --> 41:27.790]  No, okay.
[41:27.790 --> 41:30.070]  Hey, Keith, uh, from, from Theta Wave Status here.
[41:30.270 --> 41:30.710]  Say hi, Keith.
[41:31.710 --> 41:32.110]  How's it going?
[41:32.390 --> 41:35.850]  Yeah, yeah, you actually composed the music that, uh, that was in the film.
[41:36.030 --> 41:37.590]  Uh, and it's really, really amazing.
[41:37.730 --> 41:46.390]  I mean, we had some commercial music too, but we, we also have, um, original music that was written just for the film and I was so amazed by what you guys did in a month.
[41:46.390 --> 41:56.030]  If you look at the CD that you guys put out at H2K, it literally was done a month before we showed it there and, and you just made music and I just, I'm, I'm always amazed by people who can make music.
[41:57.790 --> 42:09.050]  We had a lot of fun doing it and, uh, thanks again for, uh, giving us the opportunity and, uh, I just hope that, uh, everybody, uh, can check it out at the, uh, showing.
[42:09.230 --> 42:13.190]  Yeah, and you can, you can talk to us too, you know, you can see like the humans behind this, this whole thing.
[42:13.190 --> 42:15.750]  We'll probably be there with our, uh, with the soundtrack CDs.
[42:16.030 --> 42:16.230]  Cool.
[42:16.330 --> 42:16.990]  If anyone's interested.
[42:17.190 --> 42:17.410]  All right.
[42:17.550 --> 42:19.310]  And those are, those are pretty rare commodities.
[42:19.630 --> 42:22.210]  So, uh, definitely, uh, definitely come by for that.
[42:22.530 --> 42:23.990]  Now, do you folks have a website also?
[42:24.270 --> 42:29.270]  Or, um, actually, if you go to ThetaWavestate.com now.
[42:30.090 --> 42:31.230]  Yeah, I think that's working, right?
[42:31.230 --> 42:31.430]  Yeah.
[42:31.710 --> 42:31.850]  Yeah.
[42:32.070 --> 42:33.290]  But your band name is different now.
[42:33.370 --> 42:34.090]  You changed your band name.
[42:34.170 --> 42:34.390]  Yeah, we...
[42:34.390 --> 42:37.890]  Don't tell us what you changed to the second time because we're, we're still on before 10 p.m.
[42:38.030 --> 42:40.150]  It had a bad word in it, but what's it called now?
[42:40.150 --> 42:42.150]  It is called Asobi Seksu.
[42:42.430 --> 42:42.790]  Okay.
[42:42.910 --> 42:43.190]  It's Japanese.
[42:43.630 --> 42:43.890]  All right.
[42:44.330 --> 42:44.930]  It's okay if it's Japanese.
[42:44.950 --> 42:45.490]  How do you spell that?
[42:45.790 --> 42:49.570]  A-S-O-B-I-S-E-K-S-U.
[42:50.270 --> 42:50.890]  Dot com.
[42:51.070 --> 42:51.230]  Yeah.
[42:51.410 --> 42:52.070]  Okay, cool.
[42:52.730 --> 43:01.490]  And, uh, of course, we'll have, uh, more news, uh, when, uh, when we release the thing to, uh, to video sales and stuff like that, which I think will be a lot of fun.
[43:02.250 --> 43:04.870]  Um, but, um, yeah, this, this will be a good showing.
[43:05.210 --> 43:06.310]  I'm looking forward to it.
[43:07.310 --> 43:10.890]  Okay, we have a couple of listener, uh, letters, and then we'll take some phone calls.
[43:11.550 --> 43:14.090]  Uh, dear, off the hook, I'm a new listener from Denmark.
[43:14.090 --> 43:15.270]  I really enjoy the show.
[43:16.090 --> 43:21.810]  Um, so I've told you about the, uh, Danish telecommunications company.
[43:22.070 --> 43:24.710]  This was a show we did in, um, December, I believe.
[43:25.370 --> 43:30.330]  Introducing some sort of absurd billing system for all calls, even if you just pick up the phone and don't dial any numbers.
[43:30.690 --> 43:33.730]  I found this news quite strange as I've never heard anything about it.
[43:33.830 --> 43:39.050]  So after a fair bit of reading, I found out that, uh, that sort of billing had been running for a lot of time.
[43:39.230 --> 43:43.490]  And as you said, it had something to do with the employees moving the plug from one place to another in the old days.
[43:44.050 --> 43:47.270]  Uh, well, just last January, they removed this fee entirely.
[43:47.950 --> 43:50.330]  But, and it's a big but, they introduced a new system.
[43:50.430 --> 43:52.250]  Not quite as absurd, but still way out there.
[43:52.430 --> 43:54.770]  The idea is you can pick up the phone and put it down.
[43:54.950 --> 43:55.410]  No fee.
[43:56.070 --> 44:03.790]  But, when you pick up the phone and dial two numbers, which is enough to find out if you're making a local call or not, they start billing, even if you don't dial in the last six digits.
[44:04.770 --> 44:08.390]  Last but not least, if the call goes through, they bill you another 325.
[44:09.670 --> 44:11.070]  Uh, as you said...
[44:11.070 --> 44:12.610]  Is that cents or crowns or...
[44:12.610 --> 44:13.770]  I guess it's crowns.
[44:14.090 --> 44:14.530]  I don't...
[44:14.530 --> 44:16.690]  Three crowns 25 is a lot of money.
[44:16.890 --> 44:18.570]  Well, $3.25 is a lot of money.
[44:18.790 --> 44:19.150]  It's...
[44:19.150 --> 44:19.970]  At least for some of us it is.
[44:19.970 --> 44:21.830]  It's like 20 cents to do nothing.
[44:22.370 --> 44:22.870]  Well, yeah.
[44:23.430 --> 44:24.130]  Yeah, that's true.
[44:24.130 --> 44:30.710]  As you said, this might have some effect on you as TDC, Teledenmark Communications, is owned partly by Ameritech.
[44:31.470 --> 44:33.330]  Something we, uh, should keep our eyes on.
[44:34.990 --> 44:36.590]  Oh, I love getting letters like this.
[44:37.610 --> 44:39.890]  Well, this afternoon I was attacked by one of your viruses.
[44:40.610 --> 44:42.750]  Project Columbia and was instructed to go to your site.
[44:42.830 --> 44:43.870]  You are nothing but bad people.
[44:43.990 --> 44:45.210]  True hackers are those like me.
[44:45.530 --> 44:48.610]  Programming open source, OpenGL here and giving out copies of Linux.
[44:48.850 --> 44:49.850]  I pity you.
[44:50.030 --> 44:50.590]  Signed Terry.
[44:51.390 --> 44:58.210]  Well, Mr. True Hacker, if you really were a true hacker, you would be able to look at what you got in the mail and realize it had absolutely nothing to do with us.
[44:58.610 --> 45:01.430]  Just because it has our name in it does not mean it came from us.
[45:01.570 --> 45:09.330]  Some idiot out there stuck our name on a virus and, uh, or actually, I think they stuck our website on a virus and, uh, tell people to visit the website.
[45:09.470 --> 45:11.730]  But you don't get the virus from our website now, do you?
[45:11.850 --> 45:14.190]  You get it from the email which you're stupid enough to open.
[45:25.010 --> 45:27.010]  So, uh, I don't know about that.
[45:28.210 --> 45:29.250]  Doesn't seem right to me.
[45:30.430 --> 45:31.590]  Here's an interesting question.
[45:32.130 --> 45:37.190]  Um, I'm writing an email versus IRC chat to me because I'm not available during the show's airing.
[45:37.270 --> 45:39.550]  Do people actually ask questions on IRC while we're on the air?
[45:39.950 --> 45:41.010]  We can't answer them.
[45:41.110 --> 45:41.890]  We can't answer them.
[45:41.890 --> 45:46.330]  So, whoever's answering your questions, we can't sanction whatever answers they're giving you.
[45:46.450 --> 45:46.670]  You know?
[45:46.830 --> 45:48.970]  We have an IRC channel on our IRC network.
[45:49.090 --> 45:49.510]  That's fine.
[45:49.910 --> 45:52.990]  But, remember, when you're on IRC, anybody in the world could be on IRC.
[45:53.070 --> 45:55.110]  They could be telling you all kinds of things that simply are not true.
[45:55.830 --> 45:58.510]  Or they could be, you know, 20 times smarter than us.
[45:58.550 --> 45:59.030]  We don't know.
[46:00.050 --> 46:04.010]  Anyway, I have a fairly simple telephone question that maybe a technical listener can answer.
[46:04.210 --> 46:09.650]  The other night, I received a recorded telemarketing call that was obviously initiated by an auto-dialer.
[46:09.970 --> 46:15.210]  Uh, the number, which I won't give out here, came up with my caller ID, so I decided to call the number back to see what would happen.
[46:15.470 --> 46:18.970]  After several tries, I finally got an apparently answered connection.
[46:19.330 --> 46:22.310]  The connection was silent, other than a click every 12 seconds.
[46:22.750 --> 46:27.090]  I left the phone off hook for about 30 minutes and finally hung up, still hearing the click every 12 seconds.
[46:27.230 --> 46:31.110]  My question is, did I actually force an answered call at the telemarketer's end?
[46:31.270 --> 46:36.890]  If so, did I prevent the auto-dialer from dialing out for the half hour, thus saving others from the telemarketer's snagging?
[46:37.290 --> 46:39.430]  I think many people would be interested in an answer to this one.
[46:39.470 --> 46:40.930]  If it's true, did I block the telemarketer?
[46:40.930 --> 46:43.390]  Maybe others would like to experiment on their own.
[46:43.510 --> 46:43.930]  Signed Dave.
[46:44.290 --> 46:47.330]  Well, yes, you did block a telemarketer in a sense.
[46:47.550 --> 46:53.370]  First of all, it's very, very rare that caller ID will be sent on a telemarketing call.
[46:53.470 --> 46:55.150]  I don't think I've ever actually seen it myself.
[46:55.470 --> 47:03.470]  You usually get something that's unavailable, meaning that the number won't show up as either private or a number, or you'll get a block call.
[47:03.610 --> 47:07.830]  Most likely, though, you'll get something that just says unavailable, meaning that they don't send the caller ID data.
[47:08.010 --> 47:10.870]  Keep in mind, a phone switch can be programmed.
[47:10.930 --> 47:13.990]  You can actually send false caller ID data.
[47:14.170 --> 47:15.370]  It happens all the time.
[47:15.550 --> 47:21.530]  If you have access to a switch, and many companies do these days, you can program it to send whatever information you want.
[47:21.730 --> 47:24.110]  So caller ID is kind of worthless in that sense.
[47:24.230 --> 47:28.650]  But since you had this one opportunity to actually call the telemarketer back, you did.
[47:28.770 --> 47:34.990]  And the 12-second click you heard each and every time was them picking up the phone to dial out.
[47:35.590 --> 47:41.570]  Now, they were smarter than a lot of systems because they picked up and listened for a dial tone and didn't dial.
[47:41.850 --> 47:44.830]  If you had heard dialing, then they wouldn't have been checking for the dial tone.
[47:44.930 --> 47:51.250]  A lot of companies just do that, and it's fairly easy to spoof them by calling into them and make them think that they're making an outgoing call.
[47:51.250 --> 47:57.110]  In this case, they picked up every 12 seconds and said, no dial tone, okay, I'll try again later and kept trying that.
[47:57.690 --> 47:59.470]  Did you block somebody from making a phone call?
[47:59.590 --> 48:04.350]  Probably not because they probably had more lines going out than they had people working.
[48:04.910 --> 48:08.430]  So I don't think anybody was just sitting there not having anything to do.
[48:09.130 --> 48:13.270]  But if a lot of people did what you did, then yes, you could block them.
[48:13.430 --> 48:14.530]  You definitely could block them.
[48:14.970 --> 48:17.490]  But again, it's very rare that you will get the phone number.
[48:18.050 --> 48:23.370]  It's good to get the phone number if you can, but it's also very rare that you can call back to them.
[48:23.570 --> 48:29.630]  You know, the numbers that they call out from oftentimes are different than the numbers that you dial into.
[48:29.950 --> 48:32.810]  And you can verify this just by looking at any company, PBX.
[48:33.250 --> 48:40.270]  Oftentimes, if you look at caller ID, if it does get sent, you'll see a totally different number than the number that belongs to the person if you try to call them.
[48:40.850 --> 48:41.950]  So it's difficult.
[48:42.090 --> 48:42.690]  They make it hard.
[48:42.990 --> 48:47.790]  And the best thing to do is to simply waste as much of their time as they waste of yours.
[48:47.830 --> 48:48.710]  I like to do that.
[48:48.750 --> 48:51.930]  I like to talk to a telemarketer if I have the time.
[48:52.050 --> 49:01.030]  I talk to a telemarketer for a good 10 minutes or so and inexplicably just get disconnected and then don't pick up afterwards after you're just about to buy something expensive.
[49:01.670 --> 49:02.550]  Boy, they hate that.
[49:02.750 --> 49:04.050]  They keep calling back a lot.
[49:04.430 --> 49:06.610]  So yes, if you have a question, first introduce yourself.
[49:07.810 --> 49:08.430]  Yes, go ahead.
[49:08.710 --> 49:09.150]  I'm Sean.
[49:09.330 --> 49:09.930]  Sean, how are you doing?
[49:10.090 --> 49:10.290]  Good.
[49:10.930 --> 49:20.010]  I don't know where I saw this but it was a television commercial and it was a piece of hardware you can buy that when you get a call from a telemarketer you can zap their database.
[49:20.670 --> 49:21.710]  Well, that kind of thing.
[49:21.770 --> 49:32.450]  Yeah, I've seen things like that too and we've talked about things like that but for the most part they don't really, they might send a screech to the guy's ear and make him angry but you can zap somebody's database over the telephone.
[49:33.030 --> 49:41.690]  Even if they were completely tied into the telephone you would have to have all kinds of ways into their system access points and passwords and things like this.
[49:41.750 --> 49:51.470]  That's why whenever anybody says oh, my entire database was destroyed by hackers they're most likely they don't know what they're talking about because it's so much more complicated than that.
[49:51.570 --> 49:54.830]  If you're watching TV yeah, that's how you do it.
[49:54.890 --> 49:58.590]  You just wish to bring something down and it goes down.
[49:58.750 --> 50:02.850]  But in real life you need to know things and you need to access things.
[50:03.010 --> 50:11.530]  You need some information and it's not done that easily and unfortunately people believe that's the way hackers work and they believe that's what hackers do all the time.
[50:13.130 --> 50:14.210]  Okay, let's take some phone calls.
[50:14.310 --> 50:20.530]  212-209-2900 is our phone number and it's been a week.
[50:20.630 --> 50:25.270]  Webber hasn't annoyed me in a week so if he makes it another three weeks we can let him back on the air.
[50:25.330 --> 50:25.870]  I'd like to do that.
[50:26.510 --> 50:27.010]  Let's see what happens.
[50:27.530 --> 50:27.810]  Good evening.
[50:27.950 --> 50:28.370]  You're on the air.
[50:29.750 --> 50:30.230]  Speak up, please.
[50:30.850 --> 50:31.590]  Hello, I'm here.
[50:31.590 --> 50:32.490]  Yes, you're there.
[50:33.110 --> 50:33.510]  Awesome.
[50:33.670 --> 50:34.250]  What's on your mind?
[50:34.750 --> 50:35.970]  Well, I had a couple questions.
[50:36.350 --> 50:38.250]  First off, does Rebels still have a website?
[50:38.530 --> 50:39.190]  I don't know.
[50:39.490 --> 50:40.910]  Let's talk about something else.
[50:41.850 --> 50:44.330]  Because technically that could annoy me and then he gets blamed.
[50:45.070 --> 50:46.410]  I'm sorry to bring that back up.
[50:46.470 --> 50:47.610]  I'll probably call in if you heard it.
[50:47.770 --> 50:47.910]  Yeah.
[50:48.830 --> 50:50.830]  Did he ever say how he called in?
[50:50.970 --> 50:53.930]  You see, we're staying on the subject that I really don't want to stay on.
[50:54.330 --> 50:54.990]  All right, all right, all right.
[50:55.150 --> 50:56.150]  One more chance here.
[50:56.850 --> 51:00.610]  Well, as far as politically and the way hackers are treated, what country?
[51:00.730 --> 51:02.350]  I mean, you've been all around the world, I think.
[51:02.610 --> 51:03.010]  Not really.
[51:03.630 --> 51:04.230]  What country?
[51:04.690 --> 51:05.050]  Well...
[51:05.050 --> 51:07.030]  I've been in some places but not all around the world.
[51:07.390 --> 51:07.990]  Oh, well.
[51:08.370 --> 51:09.710]  You can do a lot more than I have.
[51:10.430 --> 51:11.190]  Then do more.
[51:11.210 --> 51:11.890]  You've got to do more.
[51:11.890 --> 51:13.350]  But, okay, what's your question?
[51:14.010 --> 51:16.890]  What's probably the best country in your opinion to be a hacker in?
[51:17.370 --> 51:25.330]  Well, I find that people are generally more accepting of rebelliousness in places like the Netherlands, Germany.
[51:26.290 --> 51:39.530]  Obviously, less so in Germany than the Netherlands but certainly more so than here where questioning and rebelliousness is not looked upon as some kind of a disease or something bad and people are eager to learn and listen.
[51:40.030 --> 51:44.670]  And they know it's a bit more complex than, you know, the CNN headline news that you might see.
[51:45.050 --> 51:57.770]  So, you know, any place like that where the authorities aren't living in fear or they haven't put themselves in fear and where people are encouraged to learn and grow and, you know, I'd say that's a healthier environment.
[51:57.970 --> 51:58.890]  I would...
[51:59.430 --> 52:07.510]  My experience has been pretty much limited to Western Europe so I'd say that most of the places that I've been to certainly Scandinavia, definitely Scandinavia.
[52:07.970 --> 52:08.150]  Yeah.
[52:09.530 --> 52:11.330]  I'd say they're just more open into this kind of a thing.
[52:11.910 --> 52:12.070]  Okay.
[52:12.770 --> 52:15.250]  An idea for the magazine, I saw there was...
[52:15.770 --> 52:17.510]  Oh, I forget what was the title of that.
[52:17.650 --> 52:19.070]  It was Consequences.
[52:19.510 --> 52:24.270]  I'm not sure if that was an ongoing category that you did in the magazine.
[52:24.270 --> 52:26.850]  I think that was the title of an editorial, I think.
[52:27.290 --> 52:29.930]  Is that one that you do like every edition?
[52:29.930 --> 52:31.730]  There's another edition of Consequences?
[52:31.970 --> 52:32.430]  No, no.
[52:32.530 --> 52:35.650]  It's the title of an editorial and every issue we have a different editorial.
[52:36.110 --> 52:36.530]  Oh, okay.
[52:36.630 --> 52:45.690]  Well, one idea if you ever did that would be like maybe examining computer monitoring software or something, you know, that weighs around being monitored on computers.
[52:45.910 --> 52:46.170]  Mm-hmm.
[52:46.470 --> 52:47.750]  Just for like electronic privacy.
[52:47.750 --> 52:49.710]  Like, I know there was a...
[52:51.030 --> 52:52.510]  The Deconstructing Fortress.
[52:53.070 --> 52:55.170]  Deconstructing a Fortress was an article in the last one.
[52:55.650 --> 52:57.250]  And that thing's pretty interesting.
[52:57.430 --> 52:59.690]  We don't have Fortress at our school and it's...
[52:59.690 --> 53:00.330]  Mm-hmm.
[53:00.330 --> 53:09.950]  You know, we have Altress is what we have but the Fortress article is very descriptive and I just found it kind of neat that you could, you know, pretty much override all of its security with a TI calculator program.
[53:10.270 --> 53:11.050]  Yeah, yeah.
[53:11.390 --> 53:18.830]  Well, those articles come from our readers and they get all the credit for putting those together and making them as detailed as they are.
[53:18.990 --> 53:28.330]  So by all means, on the subject that you're interested in, if somebody writes something like that and sends it to us, we will certainly consider it and if it's well done, we will definitely print it.
[53:28.730 --> 53:28.970]  Yeah.
[53:29.230 --> 53:39.970]  And they can do that by sending either email to articles at 2600.com or just sending us regular mail, 2600, PL Box 99, Middle Island, New York, 11953.
[53:40.170 --> 53:43.470]  And we love to get articles, especially on diverse subjects.
[53:44.130 --> 53:44.190]  Okay?
[53:44.310 --> 53:44.450]  All right.
[53:47.710 --> 53:52.530]  I know most of the boxes as far as blue boxes and black boxes don't work anymore.
[53:52.710 --> 53:57.450]  But just for nostalgia purposes, if there's any sort of sound archive of what they might have sounded like.
[53:57.810 --> 53:59.530]  You know, do a Google search.
[53:59.530 --> 54:01.030]  I think you might find something.
[54:01.110 --> 54:03.630]  It's something we've always wanted to do but just never had the time to do it.
[54:03.630 --> 54:07.150]  And we certainly would host something like that if someone wants to throw it together.
[54:07.290 --> 54:11.570]  But just, yeah, sounds of, not only of boxes but of old telephone sounds.
[54:11.770 --> 54:12.010]  You know?
[54:12.630 --> 54:20.550]  If you listen, even if you listen to some of the old shows that we used to do, the way the phone network sounds is radically different now than it was even a few years ago.
[54:20.630 --> 54:24.750]  I actually have been going through, I've listened to Off the Hook all the way from 1988.
[54:24.750 --> 54:26.790]  I was just listening to every show.
[54:26.970 --> 54:28.490]  I'm actually on 97 right now.
[54:28.510 --> 54:28.770]  Uh-huh.
[54:28.930 --> 54:30.450]  But I'm listening to it from the beginning.
[54:30.710 --> 54:32.530]  So it's an awesome show.
[54:32.530 --> 54:33.430]  You do a great job.
[54:33.650 --> 54:34.230]  Thanks so much.
[54:35.050 --> 54:35.750]  Thanks for calling.
[54:36.190 --> 54:36.330]  Yep.
[54:36.550 --> 54:37.170]  All right, you take care.
[54:37.370 --> 54:38.450]  And I'll come back in on Real Audio.
[54:38.570 --> 54:39.970]  I'm in Kansas City, Missouri, actually.
[54:40.250 --> 54:42.910]  Okay, well I guess we won't be seeing you at the screening then.
[54:42.990 --> 54:45.330]  But hopefully we'll see you at H2K2, which will take place in July.
[54:45.590 --> 54:48.430]  I do, but I don't have the money for a plane ticket right now.
[54:48.470 --> 54:49.570]  Well, come to the conference in July.
[54:49.570 --> 54:50.510]  You can save up for that.
[54:50.930 --> 54:51.370]  All right.
[54:51.510 --> 54:51.810]  All right?
[54:52.150 --> 54:52.450]  All right.
[54:52.450 --> 54:53.490]  We'll have more details on that.
[54:53.650 --> 54:53.770]  I'll come back in.
[54:53.950 --> 54:54.550]  All right, take care.
[54:55.130 --> 54:56.070]  Call from Kansas City.
[54:56.990 --> 54:57.790]  That's pretty good.
[54:57.890 --> 54:58.570]  Oh, wait, we didn't say it.
[55:02.530 --> 55:03.950]  That makes all the difference in the world.
[55:04.150 --> 55:04.690]  He said Missouri.
[55:04.830 --> 55:05.430]  He said Missouri.
[55:05.610 --> 55:05.830]  Okay.
[55:06.390 --> 55:06.710]  All right.
[55:06.850 --> 55:07.390]  That's cool.
[55:07.870 --> 55:08.470]  Good evening.
[55:08.550 --> 55:08.950]  You're on the air.
[55:09.710 --> 55:10.210]  Hi, Emmanuel.
[55:10.370 --> 55:10.790]  Hi, Mike.
[55:10.930 --> 55:11.210]  How you doing?
[55:11.490 --> 55:14.810]  I have a bit of news about the WEF protest.
[55:15.470 --> 55:15.910]  Okay.
[55:17.250 --> 55:23.590]  The Electronic Disturbance Theater is going to be setting up a virtual sit-in.
[55:23.710 --> 55:24.530]  I love those guys.
[55:24.890 --> 55:30.590]  And it's basically a denial-of-service tool which they've tailored for the World Economic Forum website.
[55:30.930 --> 55:36.890]  And you can download it and set it up and basically you're just tying up the web traffic.
[55:37.110 --> 55:38.530]  Well, I don't know if that's really smart.
[55:38.910 --> 55:39.910]  Well, um...
[55:39.910 --> 55:42.290]  Because, I mean, that's just basically, you know...
[55:42.290 --> 55:43.450]  I like clever things.
[55:43.550 --> 55:47.250]  I like things that, you know, that show kind of an art form.
[55:47.350 --> 55:49.330]  But just tying something up, I mean, anybody could do that.
[55:49.410 --> 55:50.830]  I mean, yeah, I understand that.
[55:50.910 --> 55:51.930]  And usually I'd agree with you.
[55:52.030 --> 55:59.550]  But I think in the case of, you know, sort of activist, not just vandalism, they actually have a point behind it.
[55:59.670 --> 56:04.350]  It makes a little more sense and the very fact that this is not just one person vandalizing it.
[56:04.410 --> 56:07.090]  This is like a movement in which people will sit in.
[56:07.450 --> 56:10.090]  A large group of people will download this and sit in.
[56:10.270 --> 56:13.890]  And there are many other attacks planned across the weekends on their websites.
[56:14.090 --> 56:16.370]  But you see that on a sit-in, you get your message out.
[56:16.470 --> 56:17.230]  You have your signs.
[56:17.310 --> 56:18.090]  You have your chants.
[56:18.130 --> 56:22.950]  By just simply silencing somebody else, I don't know, that just seems like a tactic they would use.
[56:23.110 --> 56:24.710]  That's the only thing that bothers me about that.
[56:24.710 --> 56:29.710]  I'd rather just have people visit a different website instead of their website.
[56:29.910 --> 56:40.350]  In fact, you know, I would say, even though this is certainly something that would get me in a lot of trouble, I would say that defacing their website is more of a statement than blocking their website.
[56:40.430 --> 56:40.730]  Well, I definitely agree with you.
[56:40.830 --> 56:47.650]  But I would not recommend that people do that in this day and age because they'll probably be, you know, put in a cell with bin Laden or something.
[56:47.890 --> 56:49.990]  I think that you have a definite point.
[56:49.990 --> 56:56.910]  But the very fact that we can kind of distribute the blame for this and you can't nab one person for a mass electronic sit-in.
[56:57.110 --> 56:59.030]  No, but you can condemn everybody for it.
[56:59.130 --> 56:59.410]  I don't know.
[56:59.650 --> 57:03.270]  I just think there's so much more to say and so many clever ways of saying it.
[57:03.450 --> 57:07.990]  If you wanted to win somebody over who was not already part of the movement, I don't think you'd win them over this way.
[57:08.230 --> 57:13.510]  Of course, the World Economic Forum website is probably not run by the brightest people in the world.
[57:13.810 --> 57:14.330]  Yeah, so...
[57:14.330 --> 57:19.830]  Last year, someone, I don't know who, got a list of all participants' names, address, and credit card numbers.
[57:19.830 --> 57:20.950]  That was brilliant.
[57:21.090 --> 57:23.790]  You see, that's using their own stupidity to condemn them.
[57:23.790 --> 57:29.650]  This year, we have a list of all their names, titles, companies, and countries, not their credit card numbers.
[57:29.890 --> 57:36.110]  Imagine if somebody had blocked access to that website so that they couldn't get all that information and show how stupid they were.
[57:36.830 --> 57:40.510]  If you want to see this year's list, it's on anotherworldispossible.com.
[57:40.610 --> 57:40.830]  Okay.
[57:41.750 --> 57:42.510]  Anything else, caller?
[57:42.610 --> 57:43.170]  Because we've got to go.
[57:43.410 --> 57:44.190]  No, that's it.
[57:44.370 --> 57:44.670]  Okay.
[57:45.170 --> 57:49.190]  There's a 2600 meeting this Friday before all the mayhem starts in New York City.
[57:49.630 --> 57:51.550]  Hopefully not a prelude to it.
[57:51.890 --> 57:56.270]  But that takes place in New York at the Citicorp Center between 5 and 8 p.m.
[57:56.590 --> 57:57.390]  Just in the lobby.
[57:57.510 --> 57:59.770]  Just look where all the security guards are looking and that's where we are.
[58:00.510 --> 58:04.610]  And of course, 2600 meetings take place all over the world on that Friday, the first Friday of the month.
[58:04.830 --> 58:09.810]  Go to 2600.com slash meetings and you'll find out all about it.
[58:11.310 --> 58:16.630]  So I guess we'll tell people how things went when we know how they went next week.
[58:16.870 --> 58:18.330]  Assuming, of course, we're not all in jail.
[58:18.330 --> 58:19.430]  Yeah, assuming we're not in jail.
[58:19.430 --> 58:21.310]  Assuming everything is copacetic.
[58:21.990 --> 58:27.510]  And we have a fundraiser coming up too which we'll have more information on as we learn more.
[58:28.970 --> 58:31.530]  For Off the Hook, Emmanuel Goldstein, have yourselves a good night.
[58:31.530 --> 58:32.830]  See you next week.
[58:38.490 --> 58:49.330]  Try to find Find the future You pair of shoes are on my feet
[58:59.340 --> 59:05.940]  Oh no Nothing can but change People
[59:10.350 --> 59:22.270]  say to me Just be yourself It makes no sense To follow I don't
[59:27.490 --> 59:31.650]  try I've got no reason
[01:00:20.480 --> 01:00:28.300]  I've got no reason
[01:02:06.060 --> 01:02:11.300]  Over the years, Gil Noble has aired programs generally acknowledged as historical masterpieces.
[01:02:11.700 --> 01:02:20.360]  His documentaries on the lives of Paul Robeson, Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., Fannie Lou Hamer, and Malcolm X have received worldwide acclaim.
[01:02:20.360 --> 01:02:30.620]  In the past, Gil Noble has been threatened many times with cancellation, only to be saved by protests of broad-based coalitions of clergy, scholars, activists, and communities of color.
[01:02:30.980 --> 01:02:39.020]  Join broadcasters Gary Berg, Alumbe Braff, and Don Rojas as they host the tribute and support rally for Gil Noble, and like it is.
[01:02:39.140 --> 01:02:46.520]  The program will feature a performance by Tahut 9 and brief tribute messages from leading scholars, activists, and community members, including...
[01:02:50.580 --> 01:02:54.440]  Sister Viola Plummer, Sister Sybil Clark, and many, many more.
[01:02:54.660 --> 01:02:57.800]  The tribute will take place February 2nd at 1 p.m.
[01:02:58.000 --> 01:03:02.720]  at Bethany Baptist Church, 460 Marcus Garvey Boulevard in Brooklyn.
[01:03:02.960 --> 01:03:06.920]  Call 718-322-8454 for more information.
[01:03:07.220 --> 01:03:10.360]  That's 718-322-8454.
[01:03:10.920 --> 01:03:11.980]  Like it is.
[01:03:12.160 --> 01:03:12.860]  Like it was.
[01:03:13.120 --> 01:03:14.480]  Like it's got to be.
[01:03:14.480 --> 01:03:23.300]  Shadow swallows me up because it's just not black enough to represent me in the 21st century where red lights will send me stoplights to stop my sight.