[00:03.200 --> 00:04.480]  Reparations.
[00:04.760 --> 00:06.780]  It's no reparation.
[00:07.800 --> 00:09.060]  Reparations.
[00:10.440 --> 00:10.680]  Now.
[00:12.700 --> 00:27.380]  It's no reparation.
[00:38.110 --> 00:55.690]  Activists argue that like Japanese-Americans, Jews and Native Americans, today's African-Americans are entitled to reparations because they are still suffering from the effects of slavery, such as pervasive racial discrimination, poverty and a feeling of lack of self-worth.
[00:55.950 --> 01:04.550]  In the past few years, this view has been echoed by resolutions passed in a dozen city councils across the country, including Chicago and Atlanta.
[01:04.550 --> 01:12.410]  The Millions for Reparations March is scheduled for August 17th, and organizers hope it will serve as a wake-up call for the nation.
[01:13.050 --> 01:16.610]  For Free Speech Radio News, I'm Nadja Middleton in Harlem.
[01:20.180 --> 01:22.660]  And you're listening to radio station WBAI in New York.
[01:22.820 --> 01:25.940]  That is Free Speech Radio News, which is heard every weeknight from 6.30 to 7.
[01:25.940 --> 01:29.320]  And right now, it's 7 o'clock time for Off the Hook.
[01:38.520 --> 01:40.440]  I cut myself while shaving.
[01:40.960 --> 01:43.020]  Now I can't make a cough.
[01:44.040 --> 01:45.820]  We couldn't get much worse.
[01:48.710 --> 01:51.330]  Bum Diddley Bom for the best, expect the worst.
[01:52.230 --> 01:53.910]  I hope that's understood.
[01:54.270 --> 01:54.930]  Bum Diddley Bom!
[02:26.520 --> 02:27.540]  Almighty I.
[02:28.080 --> 02:30.100]  How beautiful and pleasant is.
[02:42.760 --> 02:44.520]  Sounds of the House of Dread.
[02:46.480 --> 02:48.040]  Requested a mad boucher.
[02:48.500 --> 02:50.160]  Eat glass party and jump your capacity.
[02:53.730 --> 02:57.470]  Well, it may not be the House of Dread, but it is the show of dread because we dread what's ahead.
[02:57.910 --> 03:07.990]  And what's ahead is certainly not positive as far as changes in technology, changes in society, changes in the way that we see things.
[03:10.430 --> 03:11.350]  This is Off the Hook.
[03:13.230 --> 03:14.390]  Emmanuel Goldstein here with you.
[03:14.550 --> 03:15.250]  Arter Jack over there.
[03:15.610 --> 03:15.790]  Hello.
[03:16.090 --> 03:17.090]  Mike over yonder.
[03:17.690 --> 03:18.050]  Good evening.
[03:18.250 --> 03:19.130]  And Jim, way over there.
[03:19.410 --> 03:19.590]  Yep.
[03:19.770 --> 03:20.110]  How you doing?
[03:21.910 --> 03:26.850]  Well, we got a lot of more new information about the Operation Tips.
[03:27.070 --> 03:32.550]  I'm sure a lot of listeners are interested in volunteering their information, volunteering their services.
[03:33.550 --> 03:42.550]  For those who don't know, of course, Operation Tips being the program where you can spy on your neighbors and report anything that's unusual or different or suspicious.
[03:43.130 --> 03:44.290]  Can I spy on my neighbors?
[03:44.650 --> 03:45.670]  Well, honestly, why not?
[03:46.010 --> 03:48.230]  I thought I had to be like a cable guy or something.
[03:48.350 --> 03:49.110]  Well, that's the thing.
[03:49.250 --> 03:56.230]  If you go to the website, you can just fill out a form and put your name and address on there and your email address.
[03:56.230 --> 03:58.010]  And they're supposed to let you know.
[03:58.150 --> 04:06.390]  They're supposed to let you know if there's going to be any kind of, I don't know, I guess, updates in your area.
[04:07.350 --> 04:13.490]  There are lots of citizen patrols that are starting up right now, in fact.
[04:14.670 --> 04:22.930]  But first of all, the website is www.citizencorps.gov.
[04:23.150 --> 04:30.370]  That's C-I-T-I-Z-E-N-C-O-R-P-S.gov slash tips.html.
[04:31.710 --> 04:32.390]  All right.
[04:32.750 --> 04:37.410]  We take this thing very seriously because we all want to do our part to help.
[04:38.490 --> 04:41.030]  Operation Tips, administered by the U.S.
[04:41.310 --> 04:49.350]  Department of Justice and developed in partnership with several other federal agencies is one of the five component groups, component programs, rather, of the Citizen Corps.
[04:50.250 --> 04:55.570]  Operation Tips will be a national system for reporting suspicious and potentially terrorist-related activity.
[04:56.050 --> 05:05.950]  The program will involve the millions of American workers who, in the daily course of their work, are in a unique position to see potentially unusual or suspicious activity in public places.
[05:06.930 --> 05:09.490]  Well, I mean, that's the official definition.
[05:09.490 --> 05:15.790]  But it seems to me that a lot of us in our wanderings are in a unique position to see potentially unusual or suspicious activity.
[05:16.250 --> 05:26.950]  I think every homeless person out there should register with this right away because in their daily course of travel, they see all kinds of things that would certainly qualify as unusual or suspicious.
[05:27.210 --> 05:31.330]  And I think their reports would be most welcomed by the federal government, don't you?
[05:32.290 --> 05:32.770]  Sure.
[05:32.770 --> 05:37.090]  Yeah, so, of course, you have to get on the web and register somehow.
[05:38.210 --> 05:39.430]  It's really not that hard.
[05:40.330 --> 05:55.990]  The Department of Justice is discussing participation with several industry groups whose workers are ideally suited to help in the anti-terrorism effort because their routines allow them to recognize unusual events and have expressed a desire for a mechanism to report these events to authorities.
[05:56.470 --> 06:03.570]  These workers will use their common sense and knowledge of their work environment to identify suspicious or unusual activity.
[06:04.630 --> 06:10.250]  This program offers a way for these workers to report what they see in public areas and along transportation routes.
[06:12.010 --> 06:20.190]  All it will take to volunteer is a telephone or access to the Internet as tips can be reported on the toll-free hotline or online.
[06:20.410 --> 06:21.650]  So you don't even need your own phone.
[06:21.770 --> 06:22.490]  You could use a pay phone.
[06:22.570 --> 06:23.450]  Any phone, yes.
[06:23.450 --> 06:25.730]  Will they pay the pay phone surcharge?
[06:25.950 --> 06:26.750]  I imagine they have to.
[06:26.950 --> 06:28.870]  If it's an 800 number, they're going to have to pay that surcharge.
[06:29.190 --> 06:33.250]  Do they say anything about how these reports are verified?
[06:35.030 --> 06:35.770]  Like, you know...
[06:35.770 --> 06:38.350]  Order Jack, this is a system that relies on trust, okay?
[06:38.910 --> 06:45.530]  If you have to go out and verify every single report that's made to you, that implies that you don't believe the people that are reporting suspicious activity.
[06:45.630 --> 06:48.230]  What kind of society do you want to live in where you don't trust people?
[06:48.510 --> 06:49.830]  Couldn't I just make something up?
[06:49.990 --> 06:51.850]  Couldn't I just say, I think you're suspicious?
[06:51.850 --> 06:53.990]  And then, you know, they start monitoring you?
[06:54.330 --> 06:56.470]  Wait a minute, that's not making anything up.
[06:56.650 --> 06:59.050]  I suppose you could do that.
[06:59.290 --> 07:01.750]  But if I'm not suspicious, I have nothing to worry about.
[07:02.230 --> 07:03.330]  I think you're suspicious.
[07:06.050 --> 07:10.510]  Information received will be referred electronically to a point of contact in each state as appropriate.
[07:10.830 --> 07:15.910]  This is not a national 911 center and callers are expected to dial 911 for emergency local response.
[07:17.250 --> 07:23.870]  Industries that are interested in participating in this program will be given printed guidance material, flyers, and brochures.
[07:24.170 --> 07:30.490]  I think it's very important that we in the broadcast community and the hacker world receive these printed guidance materials.
[07:30.510 --> 07:31.190]  I hope we get stickers.
[07:31.650 --> 07:32.990]  Well, they don't say anything about stickers.
[07:33.170 --> 07:34.350]  Flyers, brochures, that kind of thing.
[07:34.390 --> 07:35.350]  I suppose we could make stickers.
[07:35.650 --> 07:36.870]  Secret decoder rings?
[07:37.070 --> 07:37.250]  Yeah.
[07:37.430 --> 07:38.010]  Why not?
[07:39.430 --> 07:42.890]  This information can be distributed to workers or posted in common work areas.
[07:43.730 --> 07:48.150]  Operation TIPS is scheduled to be launched in late summer or early fall 2002.
[07:49.110 --> 07:51.870]  The launch was kind of aborted because everybody's making fun of it.
[07:51.950 --> 07:55.790]  So once that's all finished, they'll be able to launch it in probably the early autumn.
[07:56.550 --> 08:02.130]  The goal of the program is to establish a reliable, potentially terrorist-related activity.
[08:04.870 --> 08:06.190]  I skipped a line.
[08:06.350 --> 08:06.550]  I'm sorry.
[08:07.370 --> 08:08.790]  Boy, that's very embarrassing.
[08:08.990 --> 08:09.210]  No, sorry.
[08:09.310 --> 08:17.570]  The goal of the program is to establish a reliable and comprehensive national system for reporting suspicious and potentially terrorist-related activity.
[08:17.830 --> 08:18.190]  There we go.
[08:19.270 --> 08:25.930]  Operation TIPS will be phased in across the country to enable the system to build its capacity to receive an increasing volume of TIPS.
[08:26.390 --> 08:29.910]  So this is something that's going to grow, like a virus, but a nice virus.
[08:31.110 --> 08:44.790]  Now, the Citizen Corps Council, they're integral to building Citizen Corps programs within each community by arranging necessary training and providing information for public education and awareness efforts.
[08:45.110 --> 08:58.670]  Working with state and federal agencies, councils will coordinate Citizen Corps programs such as Volunteers and Police Service, VIPS, Neighborhood Watch, Medical Reserve Corps, Operation TIPS, and community emergency response teams at the local level.
[08:58.810 --> 09:02.510]  So Operation TIPS is kind of a subset of the Citizen Corps Council.
[09:03.250 --> 09:16.430]  Now, councils can include leaders from emergency management, law enforcement, fire and emergency medical services, businesses, volunteer and faith-based organizations, that's us, and other relevant groups such as schools, places of worship, healthcare institutions,
[09:16.670 --> 09:17.830]  and the transportation sector.
[09:18.630 --> 09:25.250]  Starting a Citizen Corps Council in your area will help create the groundwork for the long-term security of our cities and neighborhoods.
[09:25.650 --> 09:26.870]  Let's start one right here.
[09:27.130 --> 09:28.970]  Well, you might be too late, actually.
[09:29.110 --> 09:34.050]  I have a list of places where there are already Citizen Corps that have begun.
[09:34.590 --> 09:37.030]  Let's see what's happening in New York.
[09:39.410 --> 09:40.350]  New York, New York.
[09:40.490 --> 09:43.350]  Actually, there's only one in New York, and that is based in Kew Gardens.
[09:44.130 --> 09:45.030]  Yeah, that's too far.
[09:45.450 --> 09:46.670]  Somebody in Kew Gardens.
[09:47.450 --> 09:48.530]  Isn't that where Isaac lives?
[09:48.970 --> 09:50.390]  I think it's where David lives.
[09:50.830 --> 09:51.070]  Ooh.
[09:51.610 --> 09:53.050]  I don't think that's where Isaac lives.
[09:53.530 --> 09:53.830]  All right.
[09:53.990 --> 09:58.710]  Well, anyway, the point is, Kew Gardens, New York is where there's a Citizen Corps, so I'm not sure what to do now.
[09:59.050 --> 10:01.370]  If we can go to a meeting in Kew Gardens or something like that.
[10:01.830 --> 10:02.950]  Let's look at New Jersey.
[10:03.430 --> 10:09.710]  Ridgewood, New Jersey, and Jersey City, New Jersey, Howell, New Jersey, and Ewing, New Jersey.
[10:09.850 --> 10:11.730]  So there's four in New Jersey, only one in New York.
[10:11.830 --> 10:12.430]  What's up with that?
[10:12.430 --> 10:15.750]  You know Howell is named for an ancestor of somebody we know.
[10:16.030 --> 10:16.690]  Is that so?
[10:16.850 --> 10:17.550]  Yeah, actually it is.
[10:18.690 --> 10:19.470]  Let's see.
[10:20.090 --> 10:20.490]  Pennsylvania.
[10:20.710 --> 10:21.750]  We have a bunch in Pennsylvania, too.
[10:21.850 --> 10:22.770]  We have some listeners over there.
[10:23.470 --> 10:26.590]  Lancaster, Malvern, Wilkesbury, is that how you pronounce it?
[10:26.630 --> 10:26.750]  Yeah.
[10:26.950 --> 10:27.390]  Wilkes Bar.
[10:27.570 --> 10:27.970]  Wilkesbury.
[10:28.090 --> 10:28.230]  Okay.
[10:28.850 --> 10:31.010]  And let's see if there's anything in Connecticut.
[10:33.130 --> 10:34.310]  Yes, Danbury, Connecticut.
[10:36.690 --> 10:38.130]  There's a Citizen Corps.
[10:38.870 --> 10:40.510]  And, of course, we have listeners all over the world.
[10:40.710 --> 10:42.030]  Of course, we don't care about the rest of the world.
[10:42.110 --> 10:43.150]  This is only about the United States.
[10:44.450 --> 10:49.730]  So if somebody out there wants to know if there's a Citizen Corps group in their area, let us know where you are and we'll tell you.
[10:50.370 --> 10:51.850]  And then you can figure out.
[10:51.870 --> 10:54.450]  I still think Q Gardens and Jersey City are too far.
[10:54.630 --> 10:57.730]  I mean, we need to start a WBAI, maybe.
[10:57.870 --> 10:59.190]  Well, there should be something on Wall Street.
[10:59.250 --> 10:59.870]  Yeah, I agree.
[11:00.070 --> 11:00.470]  I totally agree.
[11:00.470 --> 11:04.050]  There's all kinds of suspicious things that happen on Wall Street all the time.
[11:04.150 --> 11:05.490]  Especially since we moved down here, yes.
[11:05.490 --> 11:09.770]  Well, even before, I mean, there's all these people running around in suits and bankers, right?
[11:09.970 --> 11:10.390]  Mm-hmm.
[11:11.010 --> 11:12.070]  They're up to something.
[11:12.290 --> 11:12.650]  Well, okay.
[11:12.770 --> 11:14.790]  Did you see anything today that you wish to report?
[11:14.930 --> 11:15.250]  We could...
[11:15.250 --> 11:15.650]  Okay, you know what?
[11:15.650 --> 11:20.890]  This could be an on-air tips, you know, Citizen Corps group or whatever.
[11:20.930 --> 11:21.890]  Do you want to send me outside again?
[11:22.910 --> 11:25.350]  Yeah, we can send you outside and look for suspicious things, you know?
[11:25.350 --> 11:25.510]  Right.
[11:25.810 --> 11:26.890]  It's not so cold anymore.
[11:27.050 --> 11:29.750]  There's going to be something very suspicious this weekend, I understand.
[11:29.750 --> 11:36.970]  I've heard rumors that there are going to be men wearing unusual costumes, and they're going to be circling around along this area.
[11:37.710 --> 11:39.750]  Okay, let's try to figure out what Jim's talking about.
[11:40.190 --> 11:41.030]  Can you explain that again, Jim?
[11:41.030 --> 11:42.370]  Well, there's the 2600 meeting.
[11:42.490 --> 11:43.070]  It couldn't be that.
[11:43.290 --> 11:43.870]  No, no, Sunday.
[11:44.610 --> 11:46.190]  Well, sometimes it lasts very long.
[11:46.730 --> 11:49.850]  I've gotten home from 2600 meetings Sunday afternoon, so...
[11:49.850 --> 11:51.410]  That's just you.
[11:51.670 --> 11:51.850]  Yeah.
[11:52.030 --> 11:52.710]  No, it's not just me.
[11:52.730 --> 11:53.670]  It's a bunch of people, actually.
[11:53.890 --> 11:55.970]  It's like a rave without the music sometimes.
[11:56.550 --> 11:57.430]  I pity you.
[11:58.030 --> 11:58.430]  Yeah.
[11:59.170 --> 12:00.870]  Well, pity me more if we had the music.
[12:02.670 --> 12:04.390]  Okay, let's think about this.
[12:04.510 --> 12:06.130]  Men with costumes wandering around circles.
[12:06.430 --> 12:06.490]  Strange costumes.
[12:06.650 --> 12:08.710]  Strange costumes, as opposed to not strange costumes.
[12:10.170 --> 12:11.210]  Mike, any idea?
[12:11.370 --> 12:12.150]  I have no idea.
[12:12.310 --> 12:13.010]  Any idea, Otterjack?
[12:13.250 --> 12:13.610]  Nothing.
[12:14.910 --> 12:15.990]  Give us more specifics.
[12:16.130 --> 12:18.050]  Are they in the local area, the whole city?
[12:18.310 --> 12:20.250]  They're going to be in the immediate local area.
[12:20.430 --> 12:22.690]  They're going to have mechanized devices with them.
[12:23.030 --> 12:23.430]  Robots?
[12:23.790 --> 12:24.170]  No.
[12:24.790 --> 12:25.510]  Not electrical.
[12:25.670 --> 12:26.490]  Attack of the Killer Robot.
[12:26.570 --> 12:26.950]  I don't know.
[12:27.430 --> 12:28.130]  We only have an hour.
[12:28.210 --> 12:29.150]  It's a bike ride.
[12:29.350 --> 12:31.150]  It's a criterion with Lance Armstrong.
[12:31.310 --> 12:31.950]  I was being facetious.
[12:32.750 --> 12:32.910]  Okay.
[12:33.010 --> 12:36.850]  And your mic will be down for the next minute as a result of that little stunt.
[12:37.930 --> 12:39.290]  Now, what else do we have?
[12:39.350 --> 12:42.790]  We talked about this last week.
[12:43.890 --> 12:47.310]  And we got a lot of mail as a result of it, including this piece.
[12:47.310 --> 12:54.750]  Something you said on the last show about the tips program and using those supermarket discount cards as criteria for suspicion really hit home with me.
[12:54.930 --> 13:00.350]  The regional supermarket chain in my area, Winn-Dixie, has launched this new discount card program.
[13:00.650 --> 13:09.870]  I've got nothing against cards that offer rewards for loyal shoppers, but they now make all on-sale items only available to people holding this card.
[13:10.230 --> 13:11.490]  Why should this make me angry?
[13:11.610 --> 13:20.270]  Because to get the card, I have to fill out a form with all of my personal information and implicitly consent to having my every transaction logged in a corporate database somewhere.
[13:21.050 --> 13:25.810]  What keeps them from driving up the normal retail prices if they feel like not enough people are signing up for the card?
[13:26.130 --> 13:31.310]  They've got a privacy policy, but what assurance do I really have that they won't let the FBI analyze it?
[13:31.550 --> 13:33.870]  Or how do I know it will even be properly secured?
[13:33.870 --> 13:39.610]  I'm personally boycotting their store by choosing their competitor, Publix, and urging my friends to do the same.
[13:39.930 --> 13:46.030]  I've sent them mail complaining about the heavy-handed policy and even made a parody card logo.
[13:46.170 --> 13:47.050]  Jim's mic is back on.
[13:47.290 --> 13:56.290]  You may get a kick out of his parody site, which I guess we can read since he sent it to our email address.
[13:56.550 --> 14:00.300]  It's www.chaolinxtemple.com.
[14:00.730 --> 14:02.210]  That's kind of a combination of words there.
[14:02.210 --> 14:05.530]  S-H-A-O-L-I-N-U-X-T-E-M-P-L-E.org.
[14:07.210 --> 14:14.410]  The worst part about this is that most people don't even realize the level of privacy they are sacrificing when they agree to a plan like this.
[14:14.930 --> 14:19.970]  How many times have you gone to a supermarket and they ask you if you have a discount card of theirs?
[14:20.290 --> 14:26.930]  It's really annoying because you're supposed to save money if you have that discount card, but if you don't have the discount card, you have to pay full price.
[14:27.510 --> 14:32.930]  You know, it's like they're trying to entice you with all kinds of economic things.
[14:32.990 --> 14:34.990]  And I've never actually filled out the form.
[14:35.170 --> 14:36.250]  I've never seen the form myself.
[14:36.870 --> 14:43.350]  I just think it's a way of getting a lot of junk mail, but it's probably something a lot more ominous than that, where they have records of what you buy.
[14:43.530 --> 14:44.250]  Everything you buy.
[14:44.310 --> 14:44.850]  Imagine that.
[14:45.510 --> 14:48.950]  Of course, I don't know if you can get away with giving them false information.
[14:49.330 --> 14:50.530]  I mean, how...
[14:50.530 --> 14:51.070]  Do they check?
[14:51.190 --> 14:52.930]  Do they, you know, do a credit check on you?
[14:53.050 --> 14:53.770]  You know something about this?
[14:53.850 --> 14:56.070]  Well, I've given them false names repeatedly.
[14:56.470 --> 14:59.870]  I've used your name with various strange middle initials.
[14:59.910 --> 15:00.130]  Thank you.
[15:00.210 --> 15:01.350]  Your alias, actually.
[15:01.510 --> 15:01.730]  That's great.
[15:02.890 --> 15:03.690]  Humphrey Bogart.
[15:04.930 --> 15:05.730]  Clark Gable.
[15:06.410 --> 15:07.610]  Clark Gable, they spotted.
[15:07.730 --> 15:09.130]  Check out counter in Clark Gable.
[15:09.270 --> 15:10.610]  You fill out the form.
[15:10.710 --> 15:11.510]  You give an address.
[15:11.850 --> 15:13.610]  And I've never gotten anything in the mail.
[15:13.750 --> 15:18.550]  I had been using, you know, Clark Gable and the address I had at the time and never got anything in the mail there.
[15:18.950 --> 15:20.430]  And they give you a temporary card.
[15:21.850 --> 15:24.430]  And sometimes the permanent card comes in the mail.
[15:24.570 --> 15:27.950]  Sometimes they give that to you, you know, a half hour later, you pick it up at the office.
[15:28.710 --> 15:35.830]  Sometimes the permanent card just has, you know, it's the same number on the form as on the permanent card.
[15:35.830 --> 15:37.630]  So they have a cross-reference there.
[15:37.750 --> 15:39.310]  They just issue the permanent card immediately.
[15:39.630 --> 15:41.050]  And I've had no problems.
[15:41.050 --> 15:46.130]  I've never gotten any related mail to these names at these addresses at all.
[15:46.790 --> 15:50.610]  Well, the powers that be already know where you are.
[15:50.690 --> 15:52.390]  So maybe they don't need this to...
[15:52.390 --> 15:56.550]  Also, you know, not getting junk mail is really the least of our concerns.
[15:56.930 --> 15:58.430]  It's what they do with the information.
[15:58.610 --> 16:01.430]  Is there somebody somewhere in an office studying your buying habits?
[16:02.150 --> 16:04.310]  And, you know, maybe there's a way to figure this out.
[16:04.310 --> 16:18.570]  But if you buy certain suspicious materials, you know, which I haven't the slightest idea what they are, but I guess, you know, if you buy something that they think could be used to build something nasty repeatedly in every different store in the state,
[16:19.190 --> 16:21.590]  maybe you'll get a visit by somebody.
[16:21.850 --> 16:22.730]  Maybe someone's watching for that.
[16:22.910 --> 16:31.950]  Costco probably would use this as well as other places where you could buy Sudafed because you can make metafenamines out of that stuff if you buy it in bulk.
[16:31.950 --> 16:39.550]  Like, the feds cracked down and intimidated everyone into keeping you from buying large amounts.
[16:39.890 --> 16:43.910]  They no longer have the 100-count bottles for the past year or two.
[16:44.390 --> 16:46.610]  Can't you just buy two 50-count bottles?
[16:47.230 --> 16:48.890]  No, they don't come in bottles anymore.
[16:48.890 --> 16:49.890]  Blister packs...
[16:49.890 --> 16:50.910]  Whatever they come in.
[16:50.950 --> 16:55.470]  But the point is this, they limit the amount you buy, and I'm sure they track it as well.
[16:55.650 --> 16:57.770]  You know how many Dwayne reads there are in New York City?
[16:57.850 --> 16:59.970]  If you bought a package of Sudafed at every one.
[17:01.190 --> 17:04.850]  Well, I don't know if we want to be advocating things like this over the airwaves.
[17:04.850 --> 17:06.090]  We're supposed to be helping people.
[17:06.290 --> 17:07.710]  This is the Citizen Corps show.
[17:07.810 --> 17:10.370]  You know, we should rename off the hook to the Citizen Corps Hour.
[17:10.830 --> 17:11.790]  What do you think about that?
[17:12.070 --> 17:14.730]  You know, actually, I was thinking that we should advocate...
[17:14.730 --> 17:29.430]  If you are illegally distributing copies of Babylon 5 over the net, go and carefully find all the episodes with Nightwatch, change the sound so it's referred to as Citizen Corps, and if you can do it to the visuals, do that as well.
[17:29.430 --> 17:31.610]  Well, it's interesting you should mention that, because we got mail.
[17:31.850 --> 17:38.090]  We made a Babylon 5 reference last week concerning the whole Nightwatch thing.
[17:38.870 --> 17:41.930]  And we got a few pieces of mail, this one in particular.
[17:43.670 --> 17:55.850]  Joe Michael Straczynski, besides being an excellent writer, he's the author of Babylon 5 and also Jeremiah, was the host of a show called The 25th Hour on KPFK several years ago, the early 90s, I believe.
[17:55.850 --> 17:57.590]  He's one of us lefties.
[17:57.750 --> 17:59.330]  Well, I don't know if that's necessarily true.
[17:59.530 --> 18:04.410]  I mean, only because I don't think he would categorize himself as left or right.
[18:04.510 --> 18:11.570]  I think he's categorized himself, like many of us do, as individuals whose opinions wind up sometimes on the left, sometimes on the right.
[18:11.710 --> 18:13.610]  But, you know, it depends.
[18:14.690 --> 18:19.610]  Anyway, his whole Nightwatch theme from the show was a social commentary about how governments do this kind of thing.
[18:20.390 --> 18:23.670]  Being a well-researched lefty, he's seen this all before.
[18:23.830 --> 18:30.890]  His ability to predict Bush-Ascroft's tips program is not remarkable because, as I'm sure he'd agree, this has happened so many times in the past.
[18:31.170 --> 18:33.170]  He's not working for the government, giving them ideas.
[18:33.170 --> 18:37.890]  He's probably just collecting more material from the current clowns in office for ideas to use in future stories.
[18:38.050 --> 18:38.430]  Signed, Paul.
[18:38.430 --> 18:47.630]  Well, that's an interesting view, but I don't think we'd be much better off if there were different people there right now in the White House.
[18:47.770 --> 18:51.570]  I think it's pretty much as was being said in 2000, it doesn't matter.
[18:51.790 --> 19:00.170]  You have a basic structure in place, and you have, you know, the House of Representatives, the Senate, they're voting for these things, you know, in huge numbers.
[19:00.170 --> 19:02.230]  Democrat, Republican, it doesn't make a difference.
[19:02.430 --> 19:03.730]  This isn't a left-right thing.
[19:03.730 --> 19:11.190]  And if you want to, you know, look at that particular TV program, you tell me, was EarthGov a leftist regime or a rightist regime?
[19:11.270 --> 19:12.090]  You don't know.
[19:12.250 --> 19:13.050]  You have no idea.
[19:13.250 --> 19:13.870]  It's irrelevant.
[19:14.230 --> 19:20.190]  The point is, every government in the world, as far as I'm concerned, sees individuals as a threat.
[19:20.550 --> 19:22.990]  And I don't think that's something that's going to change anytime soon.
[19:23.930 --> 19:26.590]  But speaking of that particular person, J.
[19:26.670 --> 19:42.350]  Michael Straczynski, we found some posts, actually, on this very subject that just came out yesterday, concerning this actual topic, this actual citizen core thing, where he's getting into a debate.
[19:42.510 --> 19:46.690]  And I think that some of the points brought up here are absolutely amazing and right on target.
[19:47.070 --> 19:56.070]  This person is saying, and this person could very well be talking to us, it's interesting that the idea of civilians looking out for each other should fill some people with dread.
[19:56.070 --> 20:03.190]  I attribute the fear to the elitist perception that, quote, I can handle responsibility, but everyone else is irresponsible, unquote.
[20:03.830 --> 20:07.150]  Certainly the best protection against burglars is a nosy neighbor.
[20:08.370 --> 20:11.770]  Well, JMS's response to this, this misses the point by a mile.
[20:11.870 --> 20:23.010]  What the citizen core involves is the establishment of a branch of the government, which will solicit information from various sources, none of whom are authorized peace officers or in any way official individuals trained in detection.
[20:23.010 --> 20:33.770]  information, and take that information, gather it, disseminate it internally, and track that information about people who may not have anything whatsoever to do with anything in the smallest regard concerning terrorism.
[20:34.110 --> 20:35.390]  Who gets this information?
[20:35.610 --> 20:36.770]  What will they do with it?
[20:36.910 --> 20:38.850]  How will it be organized and disseminated?
[20:39.050 --> 20:45.430]  What stops someone from sending along unreliable or false information in order to get someone in trouble?
[20:45.790 --> 20:48.050]  Who decides what is suspicious behavior?
[20:48.050 --> 20:54.350]  And you, the person being catalogued, have no way of knowing what's in that file or that there even is a file.
[20:54.770 --> 20:57.430]  Further, this agency will be free from FOIA discovery.
[20:57.450 --> 20:59.610]  It's FOIA, Freedom of Information Act.
[20:59.750 --> 21:03.770]  So there's no way to determine what the government has on you, if anything.
[21:04.030 --> 21:06.710]  The potential for abuse is mind-boggling.
[21:06.910 --> 21:12.410]  The way the country has always worked is that if someone sees something suspicious, they report it to the local police who investigated.
[21:12.670 --> 21:15.790]  That's how our system has functioned for a very long time and successfully.
[21:15.790 --> 21:24.090]  The acts of 9-1-1 should not lead us to throw out the very aspects of our American system that brought their attack in the first place, the ideals that we are, in principle, defending.
[21:25.650 --> 21:27.550]  We've seen this before in the McCarthy period.
[21:27.570 --> 21:31.010]  I'd hoped we had become smart enough as a people not to fall for it again.
[21:31.430 --> 21:32.370]  I was wrong.
[21:32.750 --> 21:35.510]  And that's words from J.
[21:35.590 --> 21:41.770]  Michael Straczynski, who has written about this kind of thing before, and I suspect we'll be writing about it again.
[21:41.770 --> 21:49.470]  And I think a lot of us will be writing about this as history in the future, as to where it led us.
[21:51.170 --> 21:51.570]  Interesting.
[21:52.590 --> 21:54.490]  Very interesting times we live in.
[21:54.770 --> 21:58.990]  If you have comments or thoughts about the Citizen Corps Operation Tips, please give us a call.
[21:59.110 --> 21:59.650]  We'd like to hear from you.
[21:59.750 --> 22:02.710]  212-209-2900 is our phone number.
[22:02.710 --> 22:04.590]  We'll be taking phone calls in just a couple of minutes.
[22:05.550 --> 22:09.290]  First, a couple of news stories, which I think are of interest.
[22:12.250 --> 22:18.930]  Some things we actually wrote about on our website, so feel free to chime in with any other details that we might have.
[22:19.150 --> 22:28.070]  A proposal by a California congressman would give the entertainment industry broad new powers to try to stop people from downloading pirated music and movies off the Internet.
[22:28.190 --> 22:29.230]  Mike, that's a good thing, isn't it?
[22:29.890 --> 22:30.210]  Sure.
[22:30.210 --> 22:32.630]  I mean, stopping piracy, it's a good thing.
[22:32.770 --> 22:34.270]  Piracy is a real problem.
[22:34.490 --> 22:36.630]  It's affecting the shipping lanes, right?
[22:36.830 --> 22:37.030]  Mm-hmm.
[22:37.670 --> 22:47.890]  People are unable to get goods from the states over to the continent because, you know, these pirates are coming in and boarding the ships.
[22:47.910 --> 22:49.210]  Ah, with the pirates with the swords and the eyepatches.
[22:49.270 --> 22:53.290]  No, this is music pirates and movie pirates, that kind of thing.
[22:53.630 --> 22:58.030]  Wait, the pirates are taking CDs off the intercontinental ships?
[22:58.030 --> 23:04.230]  They're doing all kinds of horrible things on the Internet, and all these people want to do, this guy, Representative Howard L.
[23:04.350 --> 23:20.070]  Berman, a Democrat of California, so he's one of us lefties, apparently, formally proposed legislation that would give the industry unprecedented new authority to secretly hack into consumers' computers or knock them offline entirely if they are caught downloading copyrighted material.
[23:20.070 --> 23:29.090]  You know, just a little aside here, it's nice to show that the Democrats have no interest in giving extra power to any centralized authority.
[23:29.430 --> 23:31.750]  Like I said, it's not a Democrat-Republican thing.
[23:31.850 --> 23:32.230]  Exactly my point.
[23:32.330 --> 23:36.250]  It's the American political system which is lending itself to this.
[23:36.310 --> 23:39.510]  Now, this particular guy, what's his last name?
[23:40.730 --> 23:41.670]  Representative Berman.
[23:41.810 --> 23:42.690]  Berman, yeah.
[23:42.690 --> 23:49.270]  He has received a lot of money, coincidentally, from the entertainment industry.
[23:49.490 --> 23:51.710]  Oh, are you impugning his reputation?
[23:51.870 --> 23:52.550]  Do you think he knows that?
[23:52.670 --> 23:54.330]  I don't know, but he's the number...
[23:54.330 --> 24:04.470]  I'm sure this is pure coincidence, but according to opensecrets.org, a website which is great, has all kinds of information, he...
[24:04.470 --> 24:05.490]  Secret information?
[24:06.310 --> 24:07.070]  Oh, it's open.
[24:07.490 --> 24:08.330]  Open secret.
[24:08.490 --> 24:09.490]  But it's secret information.
[24:09.490 --> 24:10.170]  Open...
[24:10.170 --> 24:16.430]  Okay, this should be the first thing that Citizen Court Radio should report, because something being suspicious, open secrets on the net.
[24:17.010 --> 24:26.530]  Congressman Berman of Los Angeles, California, is the number one recipient of entertainment industry dollars this 2002 election cycle.
[24:27.750 --> 24:42.950]  Well, that's good background information, but I hardly see how it has anything to do with his desire to want to give the motion picture and music industry unprecedented new powers to control what's being put on the internet.
[24:43.010 --> 24:44.450]  I just thought it was an interesting coincidence.
[24:44.450 --> 25:05.790]  So if I'm totally lame, no comments, please, and misconnect my computer to my Roadrunner online or Optimum online or whatever you want to call it, and the RIAA or the MPAA or whoever decides to go searching, and I happen to have copied a CD onto this,
[25:05.930 --> 25:17.370]  and they find it there, even if I'm not putting it up for public use, you know, who knows how invasive their techniques are, they can come along and fry my hard drive?
[25:17.530 --> 25:23.350]  Yeah, and they don't have to basically tell you of any of this as well.
[25:24.070 --> 25:28.930]  Under the bill, companies would not be required to warn users in advance of their actions.
[25:29.210 --> 25:38.130]  A user wrongly attacked could sue, but only if he suffered more than $250 in economic losses and obtained permission to file a lawsuit from the U.S.
[25:38.450 --> 25:38.930]  Attorney General.
[25:39.250 --> 25:39.830]  The U.S.
[25:40.050 --> 25:57.370]  Attorney General is very busy, so I don't know if he's going to be giving permission to a whole lot of people, but according to Fred von Lommen of the Electronic Frontier Foundation, a civil liberties group, warned that the bill would allow zealous copyright owners to employ all kinds of technical measures that will interfere with the functioning of the internet.
[25:59.810 --> 26:02.910]  So imagine, I mean, imagine if we had this kind of power.
[26:02.910 --> 26:10.270]  We don't like somebody, we don't like what they're doing, you know, we think that they're doing something harmful to us, so we're just going to shut them down, denial of service, that kind of thing.
[26:10.530 --> 26:16.410]  Basically making it legal to do something which is illegal, you know, by anyone's definition.
[26:17.030 --> 26:20.110]  You know, it's... they have no respect for the law, apparently.
[26:20.810 --> 26:32.630]  Well, this comes right on the hills of a bill we talked about a couple weeks ago, which makes it, you know, increasingly illegal with crazily high penalties for other people to do this sort of thing.
[26:33.050 --> 26:39.010]  But apparently the copyright industries are just exempt.
[26:39.190 --> 26:39.730]  Above the law.
[26:39.850 --> 26:40.970]  Now, the bourbon bill.
[26:41.930 --> 26:43.110]  The bourbon bill?
[26:43.250 --> 26:43.570]  Berman.
[26:43.830 --> 26:44.130]  Berman.
[26:44.250 --> 26:44.690]  Not bourbon.
[26:44.850 --> 26:45.030]  Berman.
[26:45.190 --> 26:45.570]  I said bourbon.
[26:45.710 --> 26:45.970]  Oh, okay.
[26:47.510 --> 26:53.190]  Are they allowed to destroy your computer or just eliminate the illegal...
[26:53.190 --> 26:56.870]  They're allowed to cause up to $50 worth of damage.
[26:57.870 --> 27:05.250]  But if you have, I don't know, 200 songs on your computer, 200 times 50 is, you know, far more than that.
[27:05.270 --> 27:07.070]  Wait, what do you mean they're allowed to cause up to $50 worth of damage?
[27:07.070 --> 27:08.350]  Didn't you say it was $250?
[27:08.730 --> 27:14.050]  Well, that's... you're allowed to sue if you were wrongly attacked and you suffered more than $250.
[27:14.050 --> 27:17.530]  No, my question is, what does the bill say that they're supposed to do?
[27:17.610 --> 27:22.630]  Are they supposed to fry your computer or are they supposed to just remove these tracks or overwrite these tracks?
[27:22.630 --> 27:23.770]  They're supposed to disable.
[27:24.010 --> 27:25.530]  Yeah, disable whatever it is that you're doing.
[27:25.530 --> 27:26.070]  Disable the sharing.
[27:26.530 --> 27:30.730]  But if in the process they cause $50 worth of damage, that's okay.
[27:31.030 --> 27:32.190]  Well, I have an idea.
[27:33.290 --> 27:48.170]  Wouldn't it be interesting if everyone got themselves a sacrificial 386 or so and copied assorted songs to it and just left it up there?
[27:48.470 --> 27:52.470]  And as it got, you know, attacked, just did it again.
[27:52.630 --> 27:53.430]  And again.
[27:53.650 --> 27:54.170]  And again.
[27:54.650 --> 27:58.270]  I'm going to go ahead and report that, too, because I think that's kind of suspicious.
[27:58.550 --> 27:58.650]  No, no, no.
[27:58.650 --> 28:00.050]  What I'm suggesting is it would be interesting.
[28:00.050 --> 28:06.030]  I think as host of the Citizen Corps Radio Hour, I have the obligation to report any suspicious, even things that are coming from the studio.
[28:06.150 --> 28:06.190]  Wait a moment.
[28:06.630 --> 28:10.970]  I'm saying that this is something that we should watch out for.
[28:11.150 --> 28:13.210]  It would be suspicious if people did that.
[28:14.210 --> 28:16.890]  Yes, but by suggesting it, you put the idea in people's heads.
[28:17.150 --> 28:18.170]  Oh, no, no, no.
[28:18.170 --> 28:21.310]  I think people who put ideas in people's heads are a lot more dangerous than the people themselves.
[28:21.310 --> 28:24.870]  No, I'm sure that the evildoers out there had this idea independently.
[28:25.110 --> 28:29.090]  I'm just telling the many members of the Citizen Corps what to watch for.
[28:29.250 --> 28:32.390]  When you go over to a friend who has a computer, ask them if they've done this.
[28:33.890 --> 28:35.470]  We're going to be keeping an eye on you, Jim.
[28:36.510 --> 28:39.330]  Let's move on to another story, which is kind of interesting.
[28:39.790 --> 28:54.430]  Yale University officials have called on the FBI to investigate unauthorized snooping by members of Princeton University's admissions staff at a website Yale set up to inform applicants if they had been admitted to the Ivy League school.
[28:55.210 --> 28:55.810]  Unbelievable.
[28:55.810 --> 29:08.510]  Yale alleges that in April, Princeton admissions personnel used social security numbers and birth dates to go online 18 times and secretly access information on the admissions status of 11 prospective Yale students.
[29:09.250 --> 29:13.690]  Princeton apparently had the personal information because the Yale applicants had applied to both schools.
[29:14.730 --> 29:16.190]  Well, now let's think about this.
[29:16.350 --> 29:18.470]  So basically, they have this information already.
[29:18.650 --> 29:20.130]  They have the social security numbers.
[29:20.130 --> 29:23.710]  They have the birth dates of the people because they've applied to them.
[29:23.710 --> 29:26.530]  And they're plugging that information into another website.
[29:26.530 --> 29:29.650]  And that website is telling them the status of their application.
[29:29.690 --> 29:33.890]  Is there a privacy invasion here other than the fact that their social security numbers were used in the first place?
[29:34.650 --> 29:37.590]  There's a privacy invasion, but there's no way this is hacking.
[29:38.130 --> 29:39.270]  It's definitely not hacking.
[29:40.070 --> 29:41.910]  It's using a program the way it's supposed to be used.
[29:41.970 --> 29:43.990]  Well, yeah, but everybody is saying it's hacking.
[29:44.530 --> 29:47.170]  Well, yeah, they say anything is hacking involving a computer.
[29:47.390 --> 29:49.290]  I'm picking my nose over my computer.
[29:49.490 --> 29:50.050]  I'm hacking.
[29:51.030 --> 29:51.750]  Thanks for the image.
[29:52.470 --> 29:57.970]  We are deeply concerned about the privacy of our students, said Dorothy Robinson, Yale's general counsel.
[29:58.310 --> 30:03.750]  We therefore have notified appropriate law enforcement authorities as well as the applicants whose web locations were accessed.
[30:03.990 --> 30:07.250]  We have also notified Princeton and expect that they will follow up appropriately.
[30:08.530 --> 30:19.670]  Late yesterday, Princeton placed Stephen LeMeninger, who I guess was a manager, also associate dean and director of admission on paid administrative leave.
[30:19.670 --> 30:21.770]  That's like a vacation, isn't it?
[30:21.950 --> 30:23.030]  Paid administrative leave?
[30:23.350 --> 30:25.130]  Yeah, but it's an ominous vacation.
[30:25.250 --> 30:25.370]  Yeah.
[30:25.490 --> 30:33.250]  Pending the outcome of an internal investigation, the manager acknowledged that he made at least one unauthorized transmission to the Yale website.
[30:33.570 --> 30:35.410]  Sounds like something on Star Trek, doesn't it?
[30:36.210 --> 30:37.710]  Unauthorized transmission to the Borg.
[30:37.710 --> 30:50.610]  He said, Princeton spokesman Marilyn Marks said this, Princeton acknowledged a serious lapse of judgment and was bringing in outside lawyers to conduct an aggressive investigation of who in the admissions office was involved.
[30:51.310 --> 30:55.610]  You know, if there was a password involved, I could see the breach of security here.
[30:55.730 --> 31:00.210]  But from what I'm seeing in this story, it looks like they just had a website up.
[31:00.250 --> 31:10.430]  And if anybody knows the address of this website, I would love to see it, you know, because I'd like to see for myself, all you have to do is put in the social security number and the birth date of somebody, and it tells you what their admission status is.
[31:10.630 --> 31:11.130]  That's it.
[31:11.310 --> 31:17.030]  You know, it's semi-public information, especially if it's being bandied about different offices.
[31:17.510 --> 31:19.930]  A lot of universities have this information.
[31:21.490 --> 31:25.550]  The thing that a lot of them don't put online, whether or not you've been admitted.
[31:26.650 --> 31:38.350]  But I know my school's website, you put in your name and your, I'm sorry, your social security number and birth date, and it tells you, you know, all the documents they've received through your application process.
[31:38.730 --> 31:39.630]  That's all you need.
[31:39.710 --> 31:40.490]  No password or anything.
[31:40.630 --> 31:40.710]  No.
[31:40.710 --> 31:44.650]  So I have your social security number, I have your birth date, so I can get this information on you immediately.
[31:44.870 --> 31:45.530]  Yeah, it's easy.
[31:45.630 --> 31:48.970]  You go to the website, you click admissions, and then check the status of my application.
[31:49.170 --> 31:55.370]  Okay, that is a security violation as far as I'm concerned, but not because of the person plugging in the information, because the site exists in the first place.
[31:55.570 --> 31:56.230]  It has all that.
[31:56.350 --> 31:57.910]  On that website, does it say your name?
[31:58.810 --> 31:59.710]  Uh-huh, I think so.
[31:59.730 --> 32:01.430]  Like, after you enter in your social security number?
[32:01.750 --> 32:02.290]  Probably, yeah.
[32:02.430 --> 32:04.590]  If it says all that other stuff, it's got to say your name as well.
[32:04.690 --> 32:12.570]  So if you just made up information, again, making up stuff, you just make up information and you enter it into that website, you can just easily, like, get people's social security numbers.
[32:12.770 --> 32:13.330]  Eventually, yeah.
[32:13.390 --> 32:13.510]  No, no, no.
[32:13.570 --> 32:15.170]  You have to have the social security number.
[32:15.310 --> 32:16.090]  You just make one up.
[32:16.370 --> 32:18.710]  Yeah, but you have to get that right, and you have to get the birth date right.
[32:18.870 --> 32:19.950]  You have to make a script to do it, then.
[32:20.230 --> 32:20.410]  Yeah.
[32:20.790 --> 32:24.650]  Yeah, but it's going to run for infinity, because, you know, just to get one person, you It's not going to run for infinity.
[32:24.650 --> 32:29.490]  Well, you'd have to have at least one piece of information, and I think that would have to be the Social Security number.
[32:29.610 --> 32:30.570]  There's a lot of digits in there.
[32:30.650 --> 32:32.230]  You can't just guess the Social Security number.
[32:32.290 --> 32:33.090]  You have to have some kind of...
[32:33.090 --> 32:34.310]  No, but you can get likely ones.
[32:34.710 --> 32:38.810]  Well, the thing is, you call... Now, Mike, are the students... This is Columbia University.
[32:38.950 --> 32:40.790]  We might as well say that right now since everybody knows it anyway.
[32:41.410 --> 32:46.610]  Do the students at Columbia University use the Social Security number as their quote-unquote student ID number?
[32:46.710 --> 32:47.330]  Oh, all the time.
[32:47.450 --> 32:59.030]  So all you have to do is call anybody at Columbia University and say, you're calling from the office of memos or whatever, And that you need their student ID number in order to process some form.
[32:59.370 --> 33:02.930]  And they'll tell you the student ID number without processing in their mind.
[33:03.030 --> 33:04.470]  They're also telling you their social security number.
[33:04.570 --> 33:05.610]  Then you have that information.
[33:05.930 --> 33:09.910]  Then you simply talk to a friend of theirs, find out when their birthday is because you're planning a big surprise for them.
[33:10.030 --> 33:11.350]  You're, you know, a friend from high school.
[33:11.890 --> 33:16.330]  And bingo, you got all that information and you go to the website and, you know, change their lives somehow.
[33:17.050 --> 33:19.970]  You know, that's absurd that it's that easy, but it is.
[33:20.270 --> 33:21.130]  And people need to know that.
[33:21.150 --> 33:22.890]  You can't change anything from this website.
[33:22.890 --> 33:28.170]  You can't change anything, but by having this information, you certainly have the ability to change things off the website.
[33:28.470 --> 33:29.190]  Hey, Mike.
[33:29.470 --> 33:30.030]  When's your birthday?
[33:31.790 --> 33:32.970]  I'll tell you after the show.
[33:33.070 --> 33:34.790]  Yeah, we have the file anyway, so...
[33:34.790 --> 33:36.470]  More for Susan Corder Report.
[33:36.890 --> 33:41.890]  Anyway, again, our number is 212-209-2900 if you have comments on anything that you've heard tonight.
[33:43.810 --> 33:46.990]  United Airlines will stop issuing paper tickets within the U.S.
[33:47.050 --> 33:56.490]  by July 2003, and will add a $20 surcharge starting August 1st if a customer asks the airline to issue a paper ticket in the United States, Puerto Rico, and the Virgin Islands.
[33:57.010 --> 34:02.970]  The airline said it will stop issuing paper tickets in all eligible domestic and international locations by January 2004.
[34:03.650 --> 34:09.090]  The move comes about a month after rival American Airlines said it would eliminate paper tickets by the end of 2003.
[34:09.430 --> 34:16.930]  After reporting a record second quarter loss, United unveiled plans last week to streamline its costs, including several steps to slash its ticket distribution costs.
[34:19.770 --> 34:21.970]  So that's going to make things interesting travel-wise.
[34:22.930 --> 34:26.150]  No tickets anymore, just names, just computers.
[34:27.750 --> 34:29.630]  And apparently a lot of airlines are doing this now.
[34:29.970 --> 34:32.090]  It's very hard to get actual tickets in the end.
[34:32.090 --> 34:34.090]  When's the last time you had a ticket?
[34:34.350 --> 34:39.730]  Actually, I saw quite a few at the conference, you know, a couple weeks ago, so I know they exist.
[34:39.730 --> 34:40.690]  I've seen plane tickets.
[34:40.910 --> 34:41.290]  Okay.
[34:41.510 --> 34:43.030]  Some people are showing off their plane tickets.
[34:44.970 --> 34:48.810]  Here's another piece of paper or plastic that's going to be in the news.
[34:48.990 --> 34:54.930]  Future versions of military identification cards will encode information about fingerprints or other physical characteristics.
[34:54.930 --> 34:57.250]  The Pentagon's latest move to tighten security.
[34:57.430 --> 35:04.670]  The newest cards already have information such as name, rank, and serial number on a computer chip embedded in the card under the user's picture.
[35:04.670 --> 35:11.690]  The Defense Department passed out the one-millionth ID card earlier this week to an Army soldier who works at the Pentagon.
[35:12.090 --> 35:18.930]  Officials hope to distribute the high-tech ID cards to more than three million military and civilian Defense Department workers in the next several years.
[35:19.150 --> 35:24.110]  The ID cards help the Defense Department guard its computer files, not just its bases and officers.
[35:24.730 --> 35:30.690]  Workers with the ID cards can insert them into a device at a computer terminal to log on and get access to the files they need.
[35:30.990 --> 35:34.450]  And they won't get access to the files they don't need.
[35:34.670 --> 35:39.090]  The point of all this is to allow people to have broader access to information freely over a network.
[35:39.750 --> 35:47.330]  It's great how they describe it as making it... making a freer society by giving you an ID card that has your fingerprint on it.
[35:48.210 --> 35:49.410]  Digitally encoded somehow.
[35:49.730 --> 35:57.110]  With the card, the computer recognizes who is on the network and can track what files he uses, which websites he visits, and what emails he sends.
[35:57.730 --> 35:58.910]  This makes it a lot freer.
[36:00.030 --> 36:05.650]  Users can send and receive encrypted email and be sure no unauthorized users have access to the information.
[36:06.110 --> 36:13.350]  I'd like to know more about that encryption, how backdoored that is, or it's a public key or whatnot.
[36:16.150 --> 36:28.430]  The Pentagon is testing a program to add biometrics data to the ID card, information about unique physical characteristics, such as a fingerprint, hand shape, iris pattern, voice print, or face.
[36:28.850 --> 36:38.930]  That would add another level of security by requiring computer users to log in with their ID card and password and then have their fingerprint or other biometric data scanned to verify who they are.
[36:40.190 --> 36:46.030]  And if it's being tested on the military, you can bet that it'll be used on us in years to come.
[36:46.490 --> 36:50.510]  Eventually, everyone's driver's license or something will have this information.
[36:50.650 --> 36:54.130]  Or mandatory ID cards, which will all be required to carry as well.
[36:55.730 --> 36:56.170]  Okay.
[36:58.510 --> 37:00.430]  There's all kinds of other things, but let's take some phone calls.
[37:00.510 --> 37:02.070]  202-209-2900.
[37:03.010 --> 37:07.670]  Phone lines are jam-packed, so let's take this one over here.
[37:08.510 --> 37:09.070]  Good evening.
[37:09.170 --> 37:09.550]  You're on the air.
[37:10.250 --> 37:10.430]  Hello.
[37:10.710 --> 37:14.510]  I'd like to turn myself in for suspicious behavior.
[37:14.730 --> 37:15.130]  Okay, good.
[37:15.210 --> 37:17.390]  I'm glad that we're getting people to do this.
[37:17.470 --> 37:18.850]  That's what the point of the program is.
[37:19.090 --> 37:19.410]  Yes.
[37:19.550 --> 37:20.890]  What is it that you have done?
[37:21.250 --> 37:24.070]  I smuggled something aboard an airplane I shouldn't have.
[37:24.730 --> 37:25.110]  Okay.
[37:25.390 --> 37:26.170]  Was it yourself?
[37:27.130 --> 37:27.510]  No.
[37:27.810 --> 37:28.830]  Wait, I know what it is.
[37:30.670 --> 37:32.110]  Recently, I took an airplane trip.
[37:32.270 --> 37:32.570]  Uh-huh.
[37:32.710 --> 37:37.510]  I packed my backpack, and I thought I unpacked all the tools and equipment I had in it.
[37:37.670 --> 37:41.810]  But I accidentally left two wire cutters in it.
[37:42.270 --> 37:43.590]  I went to get on the airplane.
[37:43.590 --> 37:44.910]  They found the wire cutters.
[37:45.090 --> 37:45.930]  Two wire cutters?
[37:46.050 --> 37:46.730]  Two wire cutters.
[37:46.810 --> 37:47.030]  All right.
[37:47.490 --> 37:51.150]  And they took them away from me, and they were very angry at me.
[37:51.970 --> 37:56.410]  And so I had my flight, and I got to my destination.
[37:56.410 --> 38:01.270]  I unpacked my backpack, and I found in it a screwdriver, which they did not discover.
[38:02.530 --> 38:03.030]  Okay.
[38:03.030 --> 38:09.270]  And I found the screwdriver to be ultimately more dangerous than wire cutters.
[38:09.510 --> 38:11.350]  Is this Mr. Ohm by any chance?
[38:11.350 --> 38:11.890]  Yes, it is.
[38:11.890 --> 38:14.870]  You know, I understand their concern.
[38:14.870 --> 38:21.010]  You could have turned that airplane into a Tandy computer or something.
[38:21.370 --> 38:21.570]  Yeah.
[38:24.110 --> 38:25.310]  Okay, got his name down?
[38:25.450 --> 38:27.350]  Okay, we've got your information already.
[38:27.630 --> 38:28.010]  All right.
[38:28.290 --> 38:30.210]  So we'll be...
[38:30.210 --> 38:33.090]  We'll be entering your social security number into various websites shortly.
[38:33.090 --> 38:33.670]  Forwarding that along.
[38:34.510 --> 38:34.690]  Yeah.
[38:34.990 --> 38:36.350]  Well, the story continues.
[38:36.510 --> 38:36.810]  Oh.
[38:37.210 --> 38:39.930]  On the return flight, they again did not found it.
[38:40.630 --> 38:41.350]  Did not what?
[38:41.350 --> 38:42.410]  They did not find it.
[38:42.490 --> 38:42.890]  Oh, that's better.
[38:42.910 --> 38:43.630]  The screwdriver?
[38:44.310 --> 38:44.670]  Yes.
[38:44.950 --> 38:45.630]  Holy crap.
[38:45.870 --> 38:46.450]  Both ways.
[38:46.650 --> 38:48.710]  What happened to the two wire cutters?
[38:48.930 --> 38:50.330]  Oh, um...
[38:50.330 --> 38:50.990]  Um...
[38:50.990 --> 38:58.390]  Well, my dad was dropping me off at the airport, so I was able to call him, and he could come to the security checkpoint and get them, so...
[38:58.390 --> 38:59.930]  But they were ready to throw them away.
[39:00.130 --> 39:01.910]  Okay, so he has the wire cutters now.
[39:02.090 --> 39:02.890]  Yes, the wire cutters.
[39:02.890 --> 39:04.430]  All right, we're going to be needing his name, too, then.
[39:04.490 --> 39:05.990]  We'll make sure he doesn't give them back to you.
[39:06.250 --> 39:06.490]  Okay.
[39:06.610 --> 39:09.010]  Well, no, he has to be reported for having the wire cutters.
[39:09.010 --> 39:09.790]  It's part of the conspiracy.
[39:11.010 --> 39:14.290]  Well, the airplane security system is completely useless.
[39:14.530 --> 39:14.790]  Uh-huh.
[39:14.950 --> 39:16.130]  What airport was this?
[39:16.190 --> 39:16.870]  What airline was this?
[39:17.050 --> 39:18.970]  LaGuardia, and it was Spirit Air.
[39:19.350 --> 39:19.730]  Uh-huh.
[39:20.330 --> 39:21.370]  And what about the way back?
[39:21.970 --> 39:22.790]  Well, same.
[39:23.190 --> 39:25.450]  Well, you didn't leave out of LaGuardia on the way back.
[39:25.450 --> 39:28.430]  No, I left out of Myrtle Beach Jetport.
[39:29.370 --> 39:29.730]  Jetport?
[39:29.930 --> 39:30.190]  Yes.
[39:30.310 --> 39:31.350]  How's that different than an airport?
[39:31.730 --> 39:34.070]  I don't know, but they keep saying jetport.
[39:34.130 --> 39:35.450]  I said airport, and they corrected me.
[39:35.710 --> 39:38.110]  Sounds like the Jetsons or something.
[39:38.270 --> 39:38.430]  Yeah.
[39:38.430 --> 39:40.150]  I hope you didn't have any bombs in your shoes.
[39:40.370 --> 39:42.490]  No, but I had a screwdriver in my backpack.
[39:43.150 --> 39:43.610]  All right.
[39:43.710 --> 39:45.810]  Well, you've made that clear, and...
[39:45.810 --> 39:46.890]  I'd like to say it again.
[39:46.890 --> 39:51.190]  We're going to need a second piece of paper here for all the things we're reporting tonight.
[39:52.290 --> 39:53.290]  Strangeness going on there.
[39:54.330 --> 40:00.110]  Now, did you smuggle this stuff onto the airplane with the intention of smuggling it onto the airplane, or were you just carrying?
[40:00.350 --> 40:02.510]  It was completely accidental, I mean...
[40:02.510 --> 40:05.210]  Why would you need to bring wire cutters to Myrtle Beach, South Carolina?
[40:05.370 --> 40:08.030]  I left tools that I had in my bag.
[40:08.030 --> 40:12.530]  I didn't realize I packed my backpack in a hurry, and I didn't realize I left my tools in it.
[40:12.830 --> 40:14.430]  You know, somebody gave me a knife once.
[40:14.470 --> 40:19.650]  I never carry a knife, but somebody, for some reason, decided to make a present of a little, like, you know, switchblade knife.
[40:19.930 --> 40:25.290]  And that wound up on an airplane with me, and I didn't realize until after I'd landed, and it was overseas someplace.
[40:25.430 --> 40:26.390]  Was this before or after this whole...
[40:26.390 --> 40:30.250]  It was before, but still, I was kind of surprised that it was there.
[40:31.210 --> 40:34.430]  And, you know, it's like, yeah, I never carry this.
[40:34.510 --> 40:37.310]  It would have been funny if they had found it, and I didn't even know it was there.
[40:37.390 --> 40:38.170]  It was a switchblade?
[40:38.430 --> 40:40.170]  It was one of those...
[40:40.170 --> 40:41.110]  A butterfly knife?
[40:41.310 --> 40:41.950]  Not really.
[40:42.190 --> 40:43.850]  It wasn't one of those things.
[40:44.010 --> 40:44.450]  Those things are a...
[40:44.450 --> 40:45.210]  A samurai sword?
[40:45.370 --> 40:46.470]  No, it wasn't a samurai sword.
[40:47.550 --> 40:48.330]  Not one of these.
[40:48.530 --> 40:50.230]  It was similar to that, but smaller.
[40:50.410 --> 40:51.170]  A lot smaller.
[40:51.510 --> 40:51.830]  Yeah.
[40:52.010 --> 40:53.350]  It wasn't a serious knife.
[40:53.610 --> 40:58.470]  We're going to have things in the studio and point at them, so all the listeners will know what they are.
[40:58.670 --> 41:01.430]  Yeah, that way we can know what we're talking about, too.
[41:01.910 --> 41:02.990]  Okay, anything else you need to report?
[41:03.730 --> 41:04.470]  Um, nope.
[41:04.730 --> 41:05.270]  Besides yourself.
[41:05.370 --> 41:05.550]  Okay.
[41:05.970 --> 41:11.390]  Well, thanks for that call, and thanks for your honesty, and we'll be forwarding this along to the proper authorities.
[41:11.990 --> 41:13.290]  Let's take another phone call.
[41:13.370 --> 41:13.630]  Good evening.
[41:13.630 --> 41:14.130]  You're on the air.
[41:15.450 --> 41:17.210]  Okay, that person apparently thought better of it.
[41:17.430 --> 41:17.790]  That was suspicious.
[41:18.210 --> 41:18.890]  You're on the air.
[41:19.290 --> 41:20.010]  Well, how about that?
[41:20.170 --> 41:20.870]  This is what happens.
[41:20.970 --> 41:22.510]  The phones, like, move all over the place.
[41:22.610 --> 41:22.850]  Good evening.
[41:22.910 --> 41:23.350]  You're on the air.
[41:24.310 --> 41:29.970]  This is Jeffrey Caldwell with the National Consumer Council at 1-800-990-3990.
[41:30.250 --> 41:33.050]  I'm calling regarding your credit cards and their high interest rates.
[41:34.290 --> 41:36.170]  How about my low interest rate in that call?
[41:36.410 --> 41:37.450]  Let's go over here.
[41:37.510 --> 41:37.730]  Good evening.
[41:37.810 --> 41:38.250]  You're on the air.
[41:40.110 --> 41:41.310]  Okay, you're on the air.
[41:42.210 --> 41:42.750]  Go ahead.
[41:42.910 --> 41:44.850]  You know, isn't that annoying?
[41:44.950 --> 41:45.970]  Nobody talks anymore.
[41:46.130 --> 41:46.810]  That's why...
[41:46.810 --> 41:48.130]  Why do you always say that?
[41:48.170 --> 41:50.070]  You always call up and say nobody talks anymore.
[41:50.070 --> 41:50.830]  Is that the call that you got?
[41:51.010 --> 41:51.250]  Uh-huh.
[41:51.330 --> 41:52.310]  It was a dial tone.
[41:52.850 --> 41:53.430]  No, no, no.
[41:53.430 --> 41:54.870]  Not the last one, but the last one.
[41:55.170 --> 41:55.610]  Oh, that's right.
[41:55.610 --> 41:57.010]  I get the same kind of calls.
[41:57.250 --> 42:02.010]  You know, they don't call you at dinner time and say, Hi, I'm from the credit card debt place.
[42:02.750 --> 42:07.730]  A recording calls because they got in complaints that people were getting bothered at dinner.
[42:07.930 --> 42:12.310]  Maybe you can give me some advice as to how I can bring legal action against MCI.
[42:12.390 --> 42:17.470]  Besides the fact that they're going out of business, they keep calling over and over and over and over again.
[42:17.470 --> 42:18.870]  Wait, a recording or a person?
[42:18.870 --> 42:26.070]  Uh, it's a recording, but, you know, I basically, you know, tell them do not call me again when I talk to them in person.
[42:26.250 --> 42:27.210]  And they keep calling.
[42:27.450 --> 42:29.370]  And it's some kind of telemarketing scheme.
[42:29.710 --> 42:34.770]  And you basically have to call them and threaten to kill everybody in the building before they finally, like, you know, pay attention to you.
[42:34.850 --> 42:37.910]  And then they label you as a threat, which is exactly the opposite of what it should be.
[42:38.050 --> 42:41.170]  The recording tells you to call a certain number, and you call that number, right?
[42:41.330 --> 42:41.570]  Yeah.
[42:41.790 --> 42:41.990]  Okay.
[42:42.170 --> 42:44.850]  And then you call them, so it's not like, you know, they're bothering you.
[42:45.030 --> 42:45.850]  Right, that's the thing.
[42:45.850 --> 42:48.910]  The recording, you know, a recording, nobody's going to, like, hang up on them.
[42:48.910 --> 42:51.410]  But they call you 20 times a day to tell you this.
[42:51.410 --> 42:52.350]  I get the same calls.
[42:52.470 --> 42:53.190]  I get the same calls.
[42:53.330 --> 42:54.070]  You know what happens?
[42:54.270 --> 42:58.510]  I had to borrow some money from, you know, I had to apply for a credit card to borrow money.
[42:58.630 --> 42:59.470]  And guess what?
[42:59.550 --> 43:00.910]  They think that you're in debt.
[43:01.070 --> 43:06.030]  So they give you these calls, and I get mail, and the mail, and it's just annoying.
[43:06.030 --> 43:10.050]  I mean, the good side to it is, I guess we're talking about the Homeland Security thing.
[43:10.230 --> 43:11.410]  And by the way, a little history.
[43:11.710 --> 43:16.390]  The Homeland Security, it used to be called the Department of Civil Defense.
[43:16.670 --> 43:17.150]  Wait a minute.
[43:17.270 --> 43:19.530]  It's only existed for a few months.
[43:19.530 --> 43:22.730]  You're talking about in the past, there was a civil defense.
[43:23.010 --> 43:23.630]  It was called the Department of...
[43:25.270 --> 43:26.070]  Department of...
[43:26.530 --> 43:27.710]  I saw some website.
[43:27.870 --> 43:30.210]  Department of Civil Defense.
[43:30.450 --> 43:32.570]  We're going back to the 50s and 60s with this.
[43:32.570 --> 43:35.210]  Right, but then in 1990, they changed it to the Homeland Security.
[43:35.210 --> 43:36.010]  No, no, no, no, no, wait.
[43:36.090 --> 43:39.190]  They did not use the word Homeland Defense before 19...
[43:39.190 --> 43:40.070]  No, no, they used it.
[43:40.490 --> 43:45.750]  No, but after 1990, they changed the name to Department of Homeland Defense.
[43:46.870 --> 43:48.210]  I'm going to look into this, Rebel.
[43:48.370 --> 43:48.950]  I don't know if that's true.
[43:48.950 --> 43:50.090]  But anyway, I've...
[43:50.090 --> 43:51.950]  This sounds suspicious to me.
[43:52.150 --> 43:53.670]  But then again, anything you say sounds suspicious.
[43:53.810 --> 43:55.210]  Write that down, too, because...
[43:55.210 --> 43:55.530]  Wait, you know what?
[43:55.810 --> 43:56.070]  Yeah.
[43:56.190 --> 44:03.010]  I'd like to report a suspicious person at the 2600 meetings who keeps on talking about the government, and keeps on...
[44:03.010 --> 44:04.650]  He kept on...
[44:05.110 --> 44:10.110]  At the conference, he talked about how, you know, September 11th and everything.
[44:10.370 --> 44:15.590]  And when I wanted to play with the computer, because, you know, I could charge calls to my cell phone.
[44:15.770 --> 44:16.430]  Okay, wait, wait, wait.
[44:16.710 --> 44:17.670]  Let's not get off of that tangent.
[44:17.750 --> 44:19.530]  We need to know who that person was that you were trying to report.
[44:19.610 --> 44:21.690]  Okay, the person is the person who, you know...
[44:22.970 --> 44:24.310]  I asked, because I wanted to...
[44:24.890 --> 44:25.830]  Is it an older man?
[44:26.030 --> 44:28.110]  Hurry, the person might be getting to you right now, you know?
[44:28.250 --> 44:30.270]  You could be knocked off in the next, like, five seconds.
[44:30.270 --> 44:31.210]  Yeah, we know about him already.
[44:31.350 --> 44:31.850]  Please, let us know.
[44:32.250 --> 44:33.670]  Okay, um...
[44:33.670 --> 44:38.990]  I wanted to do something with the computer, because I need to borrow a laptop to, you know, try something.
[44:40.430 --> 44:41.070]  What happened?
[44:41.230 --> 44:41.470]  Rebel.
[44:42.330 --> 44:42.730]  Rebel?
[44:42.990 --> 44:43.790]  You didn't do that?
[44:43.930 --> 44:45.030]  That was awfully suspicious.
[44:45.350 --> 44:46.130]  That was very suspicious.
[44:46.250 --> 44:46.710]  I don't know.
[44:47.010 --> 44:48.290]  That's very ominous, too.
[44:49.910 --> 44:52.270]  You know, knowing Rebel, I'm actually worried.
[44:53.930 --> 44:55.930]  Just when he was about to give us a name.
[44:56.090 --> 44:57.330]  You think maybe he's been nuked?
[44:58.610 --> 45:00.070]  That's the only thing that could stop him.
[45:00.070 --> 45:00.590]  They're in Queens.
[45:01.450 --> 45:02.250]  Look out the window.
[45:02.410 --> 45:03.590]  Someone tell us if Queens is still there.
[45:03.610 --> 45:05.450]  I saw your finger doing some very suspicious activity.
[45:05.690 --> 45:06.770]  My finger wasn't doing anything.
[45:06.770 --> 45:11.930]  You know, I actually think it's possible he was in Kew Gardens, and this isn't Corey there, Goddard?
[45:12.010 --> 45:13.350]  Oh my goodness, he is in Kew Gardens, isn't he?
[45:13.370 --> 45:14.210]  I think he is.
[45:14.810 --> 45:15.770]  I know he's near there.
[45:15.930 --> 45:19.630]  You know what's also suspicious is that we got a dial tone rather than a fast busy.
[45:19.850 --> 45:20.810]  Yeah, that is suspicious.
[45:21.170 --> 45:22.110]  That's very suspicious.
[45:23.430 --> 45:24.070]  Hey, wait.
[45:24.730 --> 45:26.110]  I have to take another phone call.
[45:26.190 --> 45:26.710]  We have to move on.
[45:26.890 --> 45:27.250]  I see your finger doing...
[45:27.250 --> 45:29.210]  Well, my finger has to do something to take another phone call.
[45:29.210 --> 45:29.690]  We're hatching.
[45:29.790 --> 45:30.070]  Leave him alone.
[45:30.310 --> 45:30.830]  Wait, can I do it?
[45:31.210 --> 45:32.050]  No, you can't do it.
[45:32.150 --> 45:34.930]  You've already proven that you can't do it, so I'm going to move on over here.
[45:34.990 --> 45:35.210]  Good evening.
[45:35.290 --> 45:35.690]  You're on the air.
[45:36.830 --> 45:37.630]  Good evening, gentlemen.
[45:37.910 --> 45:38.290]  How are you doing?
[45:38.370 --> 45:43.590]  I don't know if you've heard, but the two organizations have already volunteered their members to the TIPS Corps.
[45:43.790 --> 45:45.750]  Well, I heard the post office was volunteering people.
[45:45.930 --> 45:47.610]  Yeah, and the other one is the Teamsters Union.
[45:47.830 --> 45:48.350]  Oh, really?
[45:48.410 --> 45:48.870]  The Teamsters?
[45:48.970 --> 45:51.810]  Yeah, they have, I believe, what is it, 1.2 million members?
[45:52.210 --> 45:52.490]  Wow.
[45:52.490 --> 46:03.010]  So between 800 and something thousand and 1.2 million members, we were there, the president already has about a quarter of the 10 million people that he requires for this TIPS Corps.
[46:03.130 --> 46:04.810]  And now the Teamsters will finally have something to do.
[46:05.030 --> 46:06.430]  Yes, and so which means...
[46:06.430 --> 46:07.250]  That's just a joke.
[46:07.250 --> 46:11.270]  I know you've been joking around, but this means that you have to be careful from now on.
[46:11.430 --> 46:17.970]  Anybody that delivers anything to your home, anybody that comes in to repair anything to your home, and, you know, this is kind of...
[46:17.970 --> 46:24.090]  This is just as bad as the Nazis having children spying on their parents.
[46:24.290 --> 46:25.670]  Well, it's basically...
[46:25.670 --> 46:26.210]  See, here's the thing.
[46:26.230 --> 46:27.790]  Here's the danger of equating it to the Nazis.
[46:27.930 --> 46:28.490]  Yes, you're right.
[46:28.630 --> 46:30.270]  The structure is being laid out.
[46:30.470 --> 46:37.150]  The politics have not quite reached that stage yet, but it makes it so much easier if it ever gets there.
[46:37.250 --> 46:38.910]  You know, to have this structure in place.
[46:39.030 --> 46:40.510]  And that's what you really have to be careful about.
[46:40.530 --> 46:42.170]  And also, I'm waiting for them to use that argument.
[46:42.490 --> 46:45.190]  Well, if you're innocent, you have nothing to fear.
[46:45.390 --> 46:45.710]  That's right.
[46:46.170 --> 46:47.510]  And so the thing is, so...
[46:47.510 --> 46:49.050]  And what's going to happen?
[46:49.210 --> 46:52.690]  And not only that, but you'll have friends distrusting friends.
[46:53.370 --> 46:54.850]  I don't trust any of my friends.
[46:55.570 --> 46:56.290]  But that's...
[46:56.290 --> 46:59.650]  I know you said it's a joke, but seriously.
[47:00.190 --> 47:04.350]  I mean, what that means from now on, if you make an acquaintance of somebody, what are you supposed to do?
[47:04.410 --> 47:05.730]  Do a background check on them?
[47:05.850 --> 47:06.710]  Are they a member of TIPS?
[47:06.710 --> 47:08.070]  Is that what's going to happen in the future?
[47:08.230 --> 47:08.430]  Yeah.
[47:08.670 --> 47:09.490]  Yeah, you're going to have to.
[47:10.070 --> 47:15.350]  Or if you're going on a date with a woman, she might be in the TIPS Corps also?
[47:15.570 --> 47:15.910]  Mm-hmm.
[47:16.690 --> 47:19.550]  Well, all I can say is, very discouraging, gentlemen.
[47:19.770 --> 47:20.530]  Have a nice evening.
[47:20.750 --> 47:21.030]  All right.
[47:21.130 --> 47:21.470]  Thank you.
[47:22.130 --> 47:23.150]  You got his number, right?
[47:23.170 --> 47:23.810]  Let's report him.
[47:24.170 --> 47:24.310]  Yep.
[47:24.610 --> 47:24.830]  All right.
[47:24.950 --> 47:26.410]  Now, we don't have caller ID, folks.
[47:26.690 --> 47:28.030]  All our calls will go away.
[47:28.030 --> 47:30.310]  If we even imply that we have caller ID, we don't.
[47:30.830 --> 47:32.310]  We can barely pick up the phone.
[47:32.410 --> 47:32.650]  Good evening.
[47:32.750 --> 47:33.130]  You're on the air.
[47:33.390 --> 47:34.010]  Oh, good evening.
[47:34.710 --> 47:36.170]  I have a story for you, gentlemen.
[47:36.590 --> 47:42.190]  I graduated high school in 1954 with a B-plus average, but I almost didn't graduate.
[47:42.950 --> 47:46.370]  And the offense, as you know, that was the McCarthy era.
[47:47.350 --> 47:51.130]  The offense that I was guilty of was having anti-war literature in my desk.
[47:51.950 --> 47:53.430]  And they went into my desk.
[47:53.970 --> 47:58.030]  You know, technically, your desk in school is a property of the school.
[47:58.990 --> 48:02.390]  And they got this, and I was questioning about it.
[48:02.490 --> 48:08.830]  And at that time, in the 4th Avenue District of Manhattan, there were a great many bookstores, but they're no longer there now.
[48:08.950 --> 48:12.730]  But, you know, all kinds of little magazines and reused books and so forth.
[48:12.730 --> 48:19.330]  But, and the principal took me down to his office and was asking me to identify the store that I bought these at.
[48:20.410 --> 48:29.310]  Now, fortunately, I had a father who, he was not politically oriented in any way other than that he thought that, you know, unless you were doing some real damage, you shouldn't get harassed, you know.
[48:30.030 --> 48:33.170]  And he came in and put in a few words for me, and I did graduate.
[48:33.470 --> 48:38.610]  But, you know, I thought that was the last I was going to see of that kind of stuff in this country, you know.
[48:38.790 --> 48:40.750]  Did this follow you around at all afterwards?
[48:41.150 --> 48:41.550]  No, no.
[48:41.550 --> 48:44.950]  It was very interesting because I had a pretty high esteem among my teachers.
[48:45.210 --> 48:46.310]  My remarks were good.
[48:47.030 --> 48:54.430]  I didn't go around proselytizing anything, but I was starting to get interested in political issues at that time and reading poetry and, you know, and so forth.
[48:55.150 --> 48:57.510]  So I had a taste of it, you know, early on.
[48:58.170 --> 49:06.210]  And my only advice is that there's a certain level of, when you have people with this kind of narrow mind, they're actually just as inept as they are odious.
[49:06.890 --> 49:11.650]  So we have to count on the incompetence of the system stumbling on itself.
[49:11.990 --> 49:18.890]  And it's also not widely known in the media, but I think it is very widely known, that people are not going to put up with this nonsense.
[49:19.130 --> 49:25.530]  Yeah, I think the reaction to this whole Operation TIPS-Citizen Corps thing so far has been a big surprise to the administration.
[49:25.530 --> 49:29.930]  I think they expected people to just embrace it with, you know, open arms and closed eyes.
[49:30.550 --> 49:31.890]  But it hasn't been that way.
[49:32.050 --> 49:33.310]  People have been criticizing it.
[49:33.350 --> 49:35.050]  People have been very suspicious of it.
[49:35.130 --> 49:38.390]  And they're kind of backing away, saying, well, we didn't really mean it this way.
[49:38.390 --> 49:41.150]  We just said it that way because we meant something else.
[49:41.830 --> 49:59.510]  Well, I think people should be able to, if they require fingerprinting or any other kind of thing on an auto license, I think you should be able to demand, or there should be some organized way, legal way, to make up your own photo ID that has only what you want on it and nothing more.
[49:59.770 --> 50:02.030]  And there's got to be a movement to try and establish that.
[50:02.830 --> 50:03.190]  Okay.
[50:03.350 --> 50:04.330]  So that's my contribution.
[50:04.530 --> 50:05.230]  Well, thanks for calling.
[50:05.290 --> 50:05.770]  Have a good evening.
[50:06.870 --> 50:07.110]  Okay.
[50:07.350 --> 50:08.610]  I'm going to report him, too.
[50:09.030 --> 50:09.690]  Very suspicious.
[50:09.990 --> 50:10.870]  Well, he's been reported already.
[50:10.990 --> 50:12.550]  Yeah, but maybe they have to update their records.
[50:12.570 --> 50:12.970]  Good evening.
[50:13.510 --> 50:14.150]  You're on the air.
[50:15.390 --> 50:15.750]  Anyone there?
[50:15.770 --> 50:15.910]  Hello.
[50:16.010 --> 50:16.610]  A person is calling.
[50:16.810 --> 50:17.570]  It's your Sprint Relay.
[50:17.690 --> 50:19.250]  This is Operator 6357.
[50:19.250 --> 50:20.770]  Have you received a relay call before?
[50:21.050 --> 50:21.630]  No, I have not.
[50:21.730 --> 50:22.590]  What's this all about?
[50:23.490 --> 50:23.970]  Okay, sir.
[50:23.970 --> 50:27.170]  The person on the line is using the relay service to communicate with you.
[50:27.170 --> 50:30.590]  The caller is typing their conversation, which will be read to you.
[50:30.710 --> 50:31.150]  Oh, great.
[50:31.230 --> 50:31.390]  Okay.
[50:31.610 --> 50:34.390]  When you hear the words, go ahead, it will be your turn to speak.
[50:34.730 --> 50:36.170]  Speak directly to the caller.
[50:36.530 --> 50:38.070]  Everything that is heard will be typed to them.
[50:38.310 --> 50:39.550]  One moment for your call to begin.
[50:39.770 --> 50:40.030]  Thank you.
[50:43.720 --> 50:44.240]  Hi there.
[50:44.300 --> 50:46.800]  I've been tying up your phone lines.
[50:46.940 --> 50:47.260]  Go ahead.
[50:48.180 --> 50:49.920]  Well, it's nice to finally hear from you.
[50:55.700 --> 50:56.340]  You're welcome.
[50:56.700 --> 50:57.120]  Go ahead.
[50:58.300 --> 50:59.480]  Where are you calling from?
[51:11.480 --> 51:14.900]  Well, I'm calling two more times, and I'm from Ohio.
[51:15.240 --> 51:15.580]  Go ahead.
[51:16.620 --> 51:20.340]  Well, thank you for calling, but we must move on to other calls.
[51:35.140 --> 51:37.300]  I'm calling using a phone card.
[51:37.840 --> 51:40.900]  Can you pick that up, please?
[51:41.200 --> 51:41.560]  Go ahead.
[51:41.560 --> 51:41.640]  Go ahead.
[51:43.180 --> 51:43.460]  Huh?
[51:44.640 --> 51:46.400]  I'm not sure what you mean.
[52:01.200 --> 52:06.260]  On two other lines, please, pick one of them up.
[52:06.500 --> 52:06.960]  Go ahead.
[52:08.120 --> 52:08.680]  Okay.
[52:08.680 --> 52:09.480]  I will do that.
[52:09.740 --> 52:10.580]  Thanks for calling.
[52:40.370 --> 52:40.950]  Hello, sir?
[52:41.170 --> 52:41.450]  Yes.
[52:41.590 --> 52:41.750]  Okay.
[52:41.930 --> 52:42.950]  I'm just...
[52:43.530 --> 52:46.610]  They're not typing anything, so I just wondered if you were still there, too.
[52:46.610 --> 52:50.190]  I'm still here, but I am going to have to move on to other calls, because I get a lot of phone calls.
[52:59.030 --> 53:00.830]  There, I just called...
[53:02.790 --> 53:04.750]  It's rung four times so far.
[53:04.890 --> 53:05.230]  Go ahead.
[53:05.230 --> 53:05.590]  Okay.
[53:06.510 --> 53:10.510]  Operator, we're going to have to disconnect now, so we want to thank you for your patience.
[53:10.830 --> 53:11.350]  Thank you, sir.
[53:11.510 --> 53:12.790]  And have a nice day.
[53:12.990 --> 53:13.390]  Thank you.
[53:13.430 --> 53:13.730]  You, too.
[53:13.870 --> 53:14.070]  All right.
[53:14.130 --> 53:14.350]  Bye-bye.
[53:14.510 --> 53:14.770]  Bye-bye.
[53:26.580 --> 53:27.900]  Yeah, I wanted her to hang up.
[53:29.800 --> 53:31.300]  Wow, I've not gotten a call like that before.
[53:31.400 --> 53:32.940]  That's kind of neat, isn't it?
[53:33.020 --> 53:34.380]  A sprint relay operator.
[53:34.840 --> 53:36.780]  So that's a service used by deaf people.
[53:37.020 --> 53:37.820]  That's basically...
[53:38.300 --> 53:43.780]  You type in your message, and they read it to somebody, and then you say your response, and they type it back to them.
[53:43.940 --> 53:45.220]  Do you think that person was really deaf?
[53:45.960 --> 53:46.640]  I don't know.
[53:47.020 --> 53:52.780]  Far be it for me to decide if that person really needs that service or not, but that person definitely was using that service.
[53:52.980 --> 53:55.040]  Well, are you going to keep your promise and pick up one of the other ones?
[53:55.040 --> 53:58.120]  Well, there's a lot of phone lines ringing, so it's very hard for me to tell which one.
[53:58.460 --> 54:01.220]  But I think we owe it to our listeners to take some of their calls as well.
[54:01.380 --> 54:01.540]  Right.
[54:02.000 --> 54:02.920]  Let's take one of these.
[54:03.060 --> 54:03.320]  Good evening.
[54:03.360 --> 54:03.740]  You're on the air.
[54:04.480 --> 54:04.800]  Yes.
[54:15.340 --> 54:16.540]  I think that...
[54:16.540 --> 54:22.100]  You ever heard of the phrase dropping a dime?
[54:22.680 --> 54:24.040]  Oh, I've heard the phrase, yeah.
[54:24.360 --> 54:24.580]  Yeah.
[54:24.820 --> 54:45.100]  So this puts a whole new spin on dropping a dime because, you know, they used to drop dimes on people who they thought was doing illegal things, but now with this TIPS, say if a black person did not like a white person who just moved into his area or vice versa,
[54:45.460 --> 55:02.800]  they could use this as a way to intimidate a person and to bring down, you know, the Internal Revenue Service or bring down the local city or state or federal law enforcement agency on them.
[55:02.800 --> 55:12.800]  They could say someone is a draft dodger if they bring back the draft because they're thinking about getting 100,000 troops over in Iraq right now.
[55:12.980 --> 55:17.080]  I mean, all this does not point to someone being unpatriotic.
[55:17.340 --> 55:24.860]  We have to re-look at that word patriotism.
[55:25.020 --> 55:37.900]  Well, you'll have a society very much like East Germany with the Stasi where basically half the population was spying on the other half of the population or in Romania or many other countries where this kind of thing was happening all the time.
[55:38.480 --> 55:39.120]  Right.
[55:39.320 --> 55:49.840]  And also, we could have people who are informants who they'll give an initiative like, you know, with a cop shot, you know, you'll get money.
[55:50.140 --> 56:05.620]  They'll give money, for instance, before the legalized numbers became a lotto and before they became night track or day track, you know, like now they have pick three for night and day.
[56:06.180 --> 56:15.020]  I mean, there was people and societies of ethnic groups who capitalized on numbers.
[56:15.160 --> 56:26.460]  You know, it was the Irish mob, the black mafia, the Italian mafia, the Chinese mafia, and the whole thing with alien non-immigration status.
[56:26.740 --> 56:31.040]  People could just start using tips to fill their pockets.
[56:32.020 --> 56:39.860]  Yeah, and just a great way to exact revenge on somebody or to target a particular ethnic group or whatever happens to be on the agenda that day.
[56:40.000 --> 56:40.900]  Very, very good points.
[56:41.040 --> 56:42.340]  Thanks for the call.
[56:42.540 --> 56:44.300]  See if we can fit in one more.
[56:44.680 --> 56:45.320]  Good evening.
[56:45.420 --> 56:45.760]  You're on the air.
[56:46.520 --> 56:47.440]  Yes, I can.
[56:47.980 --> 56:48.940]  Please, please.
[56:48.940 --> 56:50.000]  You've had your chance.
[56:50.000 --> 56:50.840]  Let somebody else speak.
[56:51.020 --> 56:51.320]  Good evening.
[56:51.400 --> 56:51.880]  You're on the air.
[56:52.540 --> 56:53.100]  All right.
[56:53.180 --> 56:53.460]  Good evening.
[56:53.600 --> 56:54.160]  You're on the air.
[56:54.820 --> 56:55.540]  Hi, Emmanuel.
[56:55.780 --> 56:56.140]  What's up?
[56:56.400 --> 56:56.660]  Hi.
[56:57.840 --> 57:07.260]  Lynn Sandles was on the other day and she happened to mention that the post office is discouraging the employees from being part of this tips program.
[57:07.620 --> 57:12.860]  Okay, that's a good thing on behalf of the post office but it doesn't discourage all the people as individuals.
[57:13.280 --> 57:18.660]  It doesn't discourage the mentality of spying on your neighbor and basically it's a sickness.
[57:18.660 --> 57:20.400]  It takes a very long time to get rid of.
[57:20.560 --> 57:25.960]  I mentioned Romania before which was one of these countries where a lot of people were spying on a lot of other people.
[57:26.140 --> 57:31.560]  It's been more than 10 years since Czescu fell yet it's still like that.
[57:32.060 --> 57:38.680]  You know, once you put this kind of mentality into society it's very hard to erase it.
[57:38.680 --> 57:51.000]  Right, it's just like back in the 50s I mean I wasn't around in the 50s but you know my mother was my parents were and they remember people who were blackballed and blacklisted and so on and so forth.
[57:51.120 --> 57:54.640]  Yeah, entire careers were ruined and it lasted for decades.
[57:54.960 --> 57:55.860]  Right, like Lee Grant.
[57:56.020 --> 57:58.460]  Lee Grant didn't work for 13 years.
[57:58.800 --> 58:03.620]  She was blacklisted and she didn't work until she did Peyton Place in 64.
[58:04.460 --> 58:07.080]  You know, that's an example of what I'm talking about.
[58:07.220 --> 58:08.220]  Yeah, people killed themselves.
[58:08.480 --> 58:09.540]  It was a horrible thing.
[58:09.720 --> 58:09.880]  Right.
[58:10.140 --> 58:12.180]  And I don't know how much we've learned.
[58:12.440 --> 58:19.420]  You know, a lot of the people around today weren't around then so maybe they have not really studied history that well.
[58:19.480 --> 58:19.920]  That's true.
[58:20.160 --> 58:23.140]  I remember the old line about people not knowing history being doomed to repeat it.
[58:23.460 --> 58:23.660]  Exactly.
[58:24.040 --> 58:25.180]  Alright, we're going to have to close on that.
[58:25.300 --> 58:26.660]  Thanks very much for your call.
[58:27.020 --> 58:30.200]  Thanks everybody who called in and thanks to those people who reported themselves.
[58:30.200 --> 58:36.160]  We're going to continue keeping an eye on this particular set of events as well as many others in weeks to come.
[58:36.620 --> 58:40.420]  This note, for those of you who missed H2K2, please go to our website.
[58:40.420 --> 58:44.780]  We have a bunch of leftover H2K2 stuff that you might be interested in.
[58:45.820 --> 58:51.260]  And we'll be back again next week with another edition of Off the Hook.
[58:51.680 --> 58:52.320]  Good night.
[59:14.260 --> 59:18.740]  You said you've been threatened by gas
[59:41.500 --> 59:43.980]  Ecologic a forum for the express...
[59:43.980 --> 59:44.040]  ...
[59:44.040 --> 59:44.060]  Thank you.