[00:09.100 --> 00:11.440]  The telephone keeps ringing.
[00:11.840 --> 00:14.000]  So I ripped it off the wall.
[00:15.040 --> 00:16.960]  I cut myself while shaving.
[00:17.580 --> 00:19.560]  Now I can't make a call.
[00:20.500 --> 00:22.320]  It couldn't get much worse.
[00:23.040 --> 00:24.900]  But if they could, they would.
[00:25.180 --> 00:27.800]  From Diddly Bomb for the best to expect the worst.
[00:28.480 --> 00:30.340]  I hope that's understood.
[00:30.540 --> 00:31.300]  From Diddly Bomb!
[01:26.330 --> 01:27.610]  And a very good evening to everybody.
[01:27.690 --> 01:28.630]  The program is Off The Hook.
[01:28.770 --> 01:31.310]  Emmanuel Goldstein here with you on this Wednesday evening.
[01:33.550 --> 01:35.630]  A special night here at WBAI.
[01:37.370 --> 01:39.710]  We're in what we call a mini-thon.
[01:41.390 --> 01:46.610]  That means we only ask for money for six days of the week instead of three weeks of the month.
[01:49.430 --> 01:52.870]  But it's all for a good purpose and it's all sorely needed.
[01:54.130 --> 01:58.310]  And it's designed to keep this radio station going.
[01:58.590 --> 01:59.530]  To keep us on the air.
[01:59.930 --> 02:02.950]  And we'll be getting a little bit more into that in just a little bit.
[02:04.670 --> 02:06.550]  We have with us tonight, Jim.
[02:06.730 --> 02:07.030]  How are you doing?
[02:07.270 --> 02:07.470]  Hello.
[02:07.790 --> 02:08.590]  And Claude over there.
[02:08.770 --> 02:09.450]  I'm here also.
[02:09.950 --> 02:11.310]  And Mike's mysteriously missing.
[02:12.450 --> 02:13.470]  That's very alliterative.
[02:13.670 --> 02:15.430]  We'll try to figure that out later.
[02:16.590 --> 02:18.190]  Anything interesting happening in your lives?
[02:19.410 --> 02:20.070]  Nothing good.
[02:20.290 --> 02:20.710]  Nothing good.
[02:20.910 --> 02:22.310]  You know, there's never anything good with you.
[02:22.490 --> 02:22.930]  Never anything.
[02:23.090 --> 02:24.490]  You never have a smile on your face.
[02:24.590 --> 02:26.210]  You're never singing a happy song.
[02:26.210 --> 02:28.530]  I would like to point out this is only relatively recently.
[02:29.170 --> 02:32.230]  I mean, you get yourself arrested and indicted and see how you feel.
[02:32.430 --> 02:33.430]  Well, I'm working on it.
[02:33.510 --> 02:34.110]  I'm working on it.
[02:34.250 --> 02:36.490]  Let this Operation Tips thing play out, you know.
[02:36.570 --> 02:43.410]  And I'm sure I'll be seeing my share of, you know, lawyers and judges and, you know, prosecutors and all kinds of things like that.
[02:44.290 --> 02:50.990]  Speaking of Operation Tips, thank you, everybody, for reporting all the people that were emailed in to us.
[02:50.990 --> 02:55.490]  Because they have been forwarded to the proper authorities, which right now are us.
[02:56.310 --> 02:59.330]  And we will be making a nice little compilation.
[02:59.490 --> 03:03.510]  So if you see anybody doing anything suspicious, remember, this is the official Operation Tips Radio Hour.
[03:05.090 --> 03:05.870]  Please send it.
[03:05.870 --> 03:13.610]  It doesn't matter if it's, you know, somebody, your boss, your, you know, your senator, or your mom, your dad, anybody, you know.
[03:13.730 --> 03:18.850]  As long as it's something suspicious that you think is not right, just report them and we will make sure it goes on.
[03:19.750 --> 03:21.670]  And, you know, we will analyze it.
[03:21.770 --> 03:22.710]  We're not saying everybody is guilty.
[03:22.710 --> 03:25.470]  Everybody is fairly innocent until proven guilty.
[03:27.110 --> 03:29.610]  But nobody is beyond reproach.
[03:29.750 --> 03:31.930]  Nobody is beyond a little bit of investigation.
[03:31.990 --> 03:33.790]  And that's what we're here for.
[03:35.070 --> 03:35.590]  Okay.
[03:36.710 --> 03:38.630]  We're going to try to take phone calls a little later.
[03:38.790 --> 03:44.950]  But right now we want people to call 212-209-2950, which is our special pledge line.
[03:45.550 --> 03:49.710]  And we want people to show support for the radio station.
[03:49.870 --> 03:57.610]  We're not offering any premiums of our own, this particular pledge drive, because this is the kind of pledge drive where you don't do that.
[03:57.630 --> 04:00.410]  You have basic generic WBAI premiums.
[04:01.570 --> 04:06.410]  But the whole purpose of supporting a radio station is not to get, you know, free things.
[04:06.410 --> 04:10.470]  It's to support the station and make sure that we're here next week and all the weeks afterwards.
[04:10.470 --> 04:19.010]  And it looks like from the news that we're going to be sorely needed in the weeks, months, hopefully years ahead.
[04:20.130 --> 04:22.310]  A lot of nasty stuff going on out there.
[04:22.750 --> 04:26.450]  A lot of it involving technology, which is what we talk about week after week.
[04:26.630 --> 04:29.750]  And it's a stepping stone, you know.
[04:29.850 --> 04:36.590]  We suggest people go back, listen to some earlier programs, and see how things have changed.
[04:36.590 --> 04:38.070]  They change subtly.
[04:38.230 --> 04:40.950]  If you listen on a week-to-week basis, you might not even see the changes.
[04:41.110 --> 04:47.710]  But if you listen, say, a few years ago, you'll definitely notice that things are radically different.
[04:47.770 --> 04:50.390]  And I wish we could apply that to every part of our lives.
[04:50.590 --> 05:00.570]  I wish I could walk down Wall Street four years ago and then walk down it today so that I can see exactly what the changes are.
[05:00.910 --> 05:01.890]  You know, it's unbelievable.
[05:01.890 --> 05:05.970]  Every time I come to the radio station, it's like walking through an occupied camp.
[05:06.190 --> 05:12.470]  You know, they have the streets barricaded and closed off, and they're forever digging things and burying things.
[05:12.670 --> 05:13.930]  God knows what they're up to.
[05:15.150 --> 05:23.070]  But one thing I'm pretty sure of is that it's never going to be the way it was, where you can actually walk down the street and not be questioned and not be looked at with suspicion.
[05:23.070 --> 05:31.870]  You know, there's a whole street closed off that says nice employees at NYSE, New York Stock Exchange employees, and guests only.
[05:32.110 --> 05:32.330]  That's right.
[05:32.390 --> 05:33.790]  The whole street is just closed off.
[05:33.870 --> 05:39.510]  You know, you can't walk down a public street anymore unless you're a member of the New York Stock Exchange, because otherwise you must be up to no good.
[05:39.910 --> 05:45.210]  So whole parts of towns are being cut off and shut down.
[05:46.330 --> 05:50.290]  And this is something that a few years ago I don't think we ever would have tolerated.
[05:50.570 --> 05:51.970]  Certainly not ten years ago.
[05:52.230 --> 05:59.130]  That's when the barricades started going up in front of federal buildings, and we had this change in the mood.
[05:59.250 --> 06:00.350]  Well, it's changing.
[06:00.370 --> 06:05.050]  It continues to change, and in a sense, I kind of like to see what happens in ten years.
[06:05.110 --> 06:09.190]  But I'd like to see it sooner rather than later so that I can, you know, warn people about it.
[06:09.250 --> 06:11.010]  But ten years from now, it's going to be too late.
[06:11.010 --> 06:25.710]  That's why, in kind of a roundabout way, what I'm getting to is that you need voices like WVAI to be there to warn you of these things, to show you the changes that are taking place on a slow scale, but things that will affect all of us in the end.
[06:27.310 --> 06:27.910]  All right.
[06:28.130 --> 06:29.750]  And that didn't yield a single phone call, did it?
[06:29.850 --> 06:30.310]  No, it didn't.
[06:30.450 --> 06:34.110]  212-209-2950 is our phone number for pledges.
[06:34.470 --> 06:37.870]  Think of Emmanuel as your canary in the mine.
[06:38.790 --> 06:40.590]  That's a wonderful analogy, Claude, yes.
[06:41.010 --> 06:41.790]  Well, maybe it's not.
[06:42.110 --> 06:43.530]  But it's getting an early sign.
[06:43.530 --> 06:44.070]  Don't they die or something?
[06:44.410 --> 06:45.850]  Yeah, but Cary dies first and saves...
[06:45.850 --> 06:47.730]  That's right, and saves a bunch of people.
[06:48.530 --> 06:49.250]  So, um...
[06:49.250 --> 06:54.030]  Okay, so while I'm dying here on the airwaves, just think of me as your savior and please...
[06:54.030 --> 06:56.010]  Well, I'm thinking the station can...
[06:56.010 --> 06:56.830]  Well, you're right.
[06:56.970 --> 06:57.950]  It's a horrible analogy.
[06:58.130 --> 06:59.850]  Well, it's, you know, I guess maybe it's effective.
[06:59.850 --> 07:03.390]  But 212-209-2950 is the phone number for that.
[07:04.070 --> 07:11.250]  What we're going to do is go into some news items and listener mail and that kind of thing.
[07:11.430 --> 07:20.430]  And hopefully people will see just how important this place really is because, well, ask yourself how many places are you hearing about these kinds of things?
[07:23.030 --> 07:25.410]  Well, first, the listener wanted to know what we were playing last week.
[07:26.070 --> 07:30.150]  I wanted to know a song called House of Dread that we played back in...
[07:30.150 --> 07:35.070]  This person actually listened in 1996 and remembered that we played it then and he's been trying to find out ever since.
[07:36.630 --> 07:38.330]  I assume this is the song you mean.
[07:46.840 --> 07:47.760]  Yeah, it is.
[07:48.140 --> 07:52.720]  Well, it's a band called Dread Zone and you won't find it in this country.
[07:52.720 --> 07:54.520]  You'll have to buy it as an import.
[07:57.120 --> 08:00.340]  Composed to former members of Big Audio Dynamite, Dread Zone.
[08:02.040 --> 08:05.140]  This record is called 360 Degrees.
[08:06.760 --> 08:09.040]  And I guess that's what we'll have in the background today as well.
[08:09.160 --> 08:11.240]  We had it last week and went over so well.
[08:13.360 --> 08:16.020]  Okay, let's start with some rather tame stuff.
[08:16.280 --> 08:21.260]  In an effort to jumpstart the languid rollout of digital TV.
[08:22.220 --> 08:24.920]  Digital TV, that thing that will be upon us before we know it.
[08:25.580 --> 08:29.380]  Whether you watch TV or not, it's going to affect everyone's lives in some way.
[08:30.300 --> 08:37.540]  Federal regulators are expected to require all new TV sets to include digital receivers by 2006.
[08:39.020 --> 08:42.640]  TV makers say the mandate would boost the price of a TV by about $200.
[08:45.760 --> 08:58.380]  And in April, FCC Chairman Michael Powell asked TV makers to voluntarily install digital receivers or tuners in half of the TVs with at least 16-inch screens by January 1st, 2004.
[08:58.900 --> 09:07.260]  Under his proposed schedule, tuners would be phased into smaller TVs over the following three years so that all sets would have them by December 31st, 2006.
[09:08.740 --> 09:10.840]  Digital TV sales have fizzled.
[09:10.980 --> 09:19.180]  About 3 million high-definition TV sets, which can display crystal-clear pictures and costs from a grand to more than seven grand, have been sold.
[09:19.700 --> 09:25.880]  But only 12% of those buyers bought sets that include tuners or bought separate tuners to go with their digital monitors.
[09:26.300 --> 09:29.680]  Most use the sets to watch DVDs or digital satellite programs.
[09:30.020 --> 09:33.440]  The major TV networks are beaming out some programming in HDTV.
[09:33.440 --> 09:38.780]  And local stations are passing along digital signals, but most consumers don't have access to them.
[09:43.040 --> 09:51.520]  Officials also note that roughly 80% of consumers who have cable or satellite TV would not benefit from the tuner unless they switch to an antenna to get a broadcast signal.
[09:51.600 --> 09:51.860]  That's right.
[09:51.960 --> 09:56.060]  Cable and satellite people aren't even carrying the digital signals themselves.
[09:56.740 --> 10:06.220]  NAB, National Association of Broadcasting, officials say those consumers can at least try digital TV and pressure cable systems to transmit more digital channels.
[10:06.860 --> 10:10.580]  Even analog sets with digital tuners would display a sharper picture.
[10:11.600 --> 10:17.500]  Cable systems have balked at carrying both the broadcaster's analog and digital channels, saying they lack the capacity.
[10:18.420 --> 10:24.960]  Representative Billy Tosin is considering legislation to force cable companies to carry digital channels.
[10:25.780 --> 10:34.160]  Broadcasters must return their analog spectrum to the government by 2006, but only if 85% of households can get digital signals.
[10:36.680 --> 10:41.660]  Now, those frequencies will then be sold to wireless carriers probably for billions of dollars.
[10:41.900 --> 10:46.680]  And it's going to be very interesting because your local TV channels will no longer exist.
[10:46.680 --> 10:48.000]  They'll be something else.
[10:48.280 --> 10:52.520]  Well, you know I'm the current token Republican on the show.
[10:52.520 --> 10:56.400]  I'm not a conspiracy theorist and I'm not an isolationist.
[10:56.700 --> 11:00.920]  But there is not any longer any American manufacturer of TVs.
[11:01.760 --> 11:04.700]  So, the question is, follow the money.
[11:04.960 --> 11:11.720]  Why is the government requiring every consumer now to go and get the digital TV in three years?
[11:12.220 --> 11:14.500]  Spending another extra 200 bucks.
[11:15.020 --> 11:20.360]  They're going to make money by reselling the wireless, the spectrum currently for TV as wireless.
[11:20.980 --> 11:26.700]  They're going to make money probably from all these foreign companies selling TVs in the States.
[11:27.180 --> 11:32.820]  I think this is just like CDs, compact discs when they came out.
[11:32.920 --> 11:41.160]  The only company plugging it was Sony, a Japanese company that made a fortune by ending vinyl records in the States.
[11:41.320 --> 11:42.620]  But it wasn't a government mandate.
[11:42.620 --> 11:45.040]  That, at least, was not a government mandate.
[11:45.040 --> 11:45.520]  True.
[11:45.740 --> 11:53.760]  But it's another example of a foreign corporation or corporations making an awful lot of money off of the backs of the American people.
[11:53.980 --> 11:55.480]  Oh, please.
[11:55.480 --> 12:00.980]  This is not an international issue of foreign companies coming in and taking things out.
[12:00.980 --> 12:05.760]  That's why I prefaced this by saying this is, you know, I'm the last person to actually say this.
[12:05.820 --> 12:07.240]  But it's damn suspicious.
[12:07.580 --> 12:08.400]  Tell me it's not.
[12:08.400 --> 12:11.800]  It's suspicious, but I don't think it's suspicious for those reasons.
[12:12.380 --> 12:12.880]  Okay.
[12:13.120 --> 12:14.460]  What reason is it's suspicious for?
[12:14.460 --> 12:25.780]  Basically, digital television is... it allows you to do a lot of things if you're in control of the digital television broadcast signal that you cannot do with analog signals.
[12:26.000 --> 12:27.340]  And let me give this as an example.
[12:27.460 --> 12:36.260]  The FCC tomorrow, 9.30 a.m., is going to implement a broadcast flag mandate for digital television.
[12:36.260 --> 12:38.740]  And it's going to be at an open webcast meeting.
[12:39.380 --> 12:47.420]  The controversial broadcast flag proposal has been the focus of intense scrutiny from all kinds of civil liberties and consumer interest groups, including the Electronic Frontier Foundation.
[12:48.040 --> 13:04.740]  The broadcast flag is the first test case for the approach envisioned in Senator Fritz Holling's Consumer Broadband and Digital Television Promotion Act, namely inter-industry negotiations leading to federally mandated copy prevention standards in new digital devices.
[13:04.740 --> 13:13.620]  So what that basically means is that unless you have permission to record programs or even see certain programs, you're just going to get a blank screen.
[13:14.120 --> 13:14.540]  You know, it's...
[13:15.080 --> 13:22.000]  The reason digital TV is being pushed on the American consumer so much is because of content control.
[13:22.200 --> 13:26.860]  It's the whole thing with the DCSS program and the DMCA and all that.
[13:26.900 --> 13:29.340]  It's just being... it's being seen here.
[13:29.500 --> 13:32.200]  And I think a lot of people are finally waking up to this.
[13:32.200 --> 13:38.340]  We've been talking about this for years, but it's really going to affect almost everything that you do, everything you see.
[13:38.520 --> 13:43.860]  If you record something off the television, you know, maybe they don't want you to see it after a certain date.
[13:44.000 --> 13:51.420]  Maybe there'll be no way at all for you to watch a particular broadcast beyond the year 2003 if they so deem it.
[13:51.820 --> 14:01.500]  This can be used for all kinds of purposes, whether it be to extract more money from you or just to rewrite history a little bit and say, you know, this thing never aired the way you remember it being aired.
[14:02.180 --> 14:06.860]  There's all kinds of... there's all kinds of ways that this can be used against people.
[14:08.320 --> 14:11.800]  So this is also a big brother sort of thing where they can change history.
[14:12.080 --> 14:13.140]  Well, I mean, it could be.
[14:13.220 --> 14:16.740]  I'm saying, you know, you put the tools in place, somebody is going to abuse them at some point.
[14:17.040 --> 14:25.400]  So wait a minute, you say... you deny my possible idea of a conspiracy theory by coming up with another reason for a conspiracy theory?
[14:25.400 --> 14:27.780]  Well, no, I just think your conspiracy theory is...
[14:27.780 --> 14:28.480]  Not as good as yours.
[14:28.640 --> 14:29.280]  ...old and outdated.
[14:29.420 --> 14:30.180]  That's what I think.
[14:30.220 --> 14:32.300]  This is the new, updated conspiracy theory.
[14:33.140 --> 14:35.600]  I say this is the revisionist conspiracy theory.
[14:35.900 --> 14:40.300]  Well, all you have to do is look at the technology that's being built and try to use it.
[14:40.380 --> 14:43.560]  Try to use it in a way that, you know, the consumer benefits.
[14:44.620 --> 14:59.140]  Electronic Frontier Foundation has sent a letter to FCC Chairman Michael Parrell detailing how the broadcast flag proposal will likely undermine civil liberties interests and enumerating the many commercial and non-profit organizations that opposed the final report.
[14:59.400 --> 15:08.940]  They're urging Chairman Powell to set aside the recommendations in their entirety and begin his investigation into the broadcast flag with a clean slate, with an open process that accommodates the public interest.
[15:09.120 --> 15:11.120]  You know, there weren't any public hearings on this.
[15:11.300 --> 15:12.940]  It just was kind of decided.
[15:14.340 --> 15:17.420]  And it's a nasty business, what's going on out there.
[15:17.640 --> 15:18.800]  Here's something else.
[15:18.800 --> 15:23.840]  American movie, recording, and software executives could be prohibited from entering Australia.
[15:24.240 --> 15:26.280]  There's your foreign influence there.
[15:27.500 --> 15:33.020]  Or they could be extradited to face criminal charges if a copyright protection bill before the U.S.
[15:33.120 --> 15:34.680]  Congress passes into law.
[15:34.900 --> 15:44.020]  California Democrat Congressman Howard Berman has proposed legislation to deal with the rising tide of copyrighted works illicitly traded over peer-to-peer networks, such as Kazaa.
[15:45.740 --> 15:48.700]  Berman's bill immunizes, we talked about this a couple weeks ago.
[15:48.800 --> 15:54.520]  Berman's bill immunizes copyright holders from civil litigation or criminal prosecution if they invade U.S.
[15:54.660 --> 15:59.880]  PCs connected to the international P2P networks to take down their own copyrighted materials.
[16:00.180 --> 16:05.060]  But the global nature of P2P networks ensnares file sharers outside the U.S.
[16:05.120 --> 16:10.020]  with the unintended consequence of making it more difficult for copyright holders to pursue pirates in Australia.
[16:10.020 --> 16:22.040]  Under Section 9A of the Victorian Summary Offenses Act of 1966, a person must not gain access to or enter a computer system or part of a computer system without lawful authority to do so.
[16:22.200 --> 16:24.900]  The penalty, if convicted, is up to six months in jail.
[16:25.780 --> 16:37.460]  Computer, Internet, and intellectual property lawyer Steve White says the Berman bill is stupid and counterproductive, and he believes it will lead to an online arms race as PC owners and the network seek to thwart the efforts of copyright holders.
[16:37.860 --> 16:38.820]  He says U.S.
[16:38.920 --> 16:50.840]  executives may be unable to enter the country to give evidence in court cases, attend conferences, speak to government customers, or possibly make movies because afflicted PC owners could seek to have them arrested for unauthorized computer trespass.
[16:51.080 --> 16:57.780]  It would also raise serious issues under the Privacy Act in relation to information obtained while computers are being hacked.
[16:58.260 --> 16:59.660]  Australian subsidiaries of U.S.
[16:59.780 --> 17:02.340]  companies could also face charges for aiding and abetting U.S.
[17:02.340 --> 17:09.920]  corporate parents, especially if local assets such as PCs, personnel, and communications networks were used in the hacking attempts.
[17:11.020 --> 17:23.360]  White's View is backed by Dean Kingsley, co-author of the AusCert Hacking Survey and head of a security practice saying the bill is state-sanctioned vigilantism.
[17:24.360 --> 17:31.040]  And it's nice to see some sanity coming from over there, because that's exactly what it is, and somebody's got to step up and do something about it.
[17:32.340 --> 17:39.620]  Meanwhile, in this country, a Houston computer security analyst has been charged with hacking after demonstrating the insecurity of a county court's wireless LAN.
[17:40.080 --> 17:51.960]  Stephan Puffer, 33 years old, was indicted by a grand jury on Wednesday with two counts, actually this is two Wednesdays ago, with two counts of fraud for allegedly breaking into Harris County District Clerk's wireless computer system.
[17:51.980 --> 17:55.620]  It's believed to be the first case of its kind in the U.S.
[17:57.060 --> 18:00.740]  Puffer was employed briefly by the county's technology department in 1999.
[18:01.280 --> 18:07.980]  He could get five years in jail and faces a $250,000 fine on each count if convicted, according to the Houston Chronicle.
[18:08.340 --> 18:15.360]  He's accused of accessing the system on March 8th in an alleged intrusion that cost the county a reported $5,000 to clean up.
[18:16.040 --> 18:27.540]  District Clerk Charles Baccaris told the paper that no confidential information was disclosed, but the alleged intrusion eventually resulted in the county closing its wireless LAN only a month after it was activated.
[18:27.980 --> 18:30.760]  But is the prosecution a case of shooting the messenger?
[18:31.000 --> 18:41.480]  On March 18th, Puffer demonstrated to a county official and a Chronicle reporter how easy it was to gain access to the court's system using only a laptop computer and a wireless LAN card.
[18:41.600 --> 18:42.700]  No password, nothing.
[18:42.900 --> 18:45.200]  Just turn it on like we demonstrated at H2K2.
[18:45.960 --> 18:50.980]  Puffer first noticed the problem while scanning for insecure 802.11 networks throughout Houston earlier that month.
[18:51.200 --> 18:53.460]  Around that time, the alleged offense took place.
[18:53.620 --> 19:01.460]  He's facing five years in jail, $250,000 fine for every instance, and all you have to do is turn on a laptop.
[19:01.700 --> 19:02.880]  It's really that simple.
[19:02.960 --> 19:03.660]  Hey, Sarah, if you're here.
[19:04.580 --> 19:04.760]  Hey.
[19:04.900 --> 19:06.020]  It really is that simple, isn't it?
[19:06.120 --> 19:06.740]  I mean...
[19:06.740 --> 19:08.460]  Yeah, you know, I wonder what an instance is.
[19:08.660 --> 19:10.780]  Is that one byte or a few bytes?
[19:10.780 --> 19:13.380]  It's every byte of data that goes across, of course.
[19:13.620 --> 19:16.980]  He could have giga instances and receive a giga sentence.
[19:16.980 --> 19:20.040]  It's really giga silly, if you ask me.
[19:20.360 --> 19:22.660]  But that's what's happening here.
[19:24.000 --> 19:26.820]  And you've got to keep your eyes open for this kind of thing.
[19:27.120 --> 19:28.920]  All right, we're up to $0 here.
[19:29.260 --> 19:30.380]  People need to call in.
[19:30.460 --> 19:35.700]  212-209-2950 is the number for pledges.
[19:35.700 --> 19:52.040]  This is our summer minithon, which basically is being used to cover all kinds of shortfalls that have taken place because of all kinds of reasons related to the economy, related to the events of last year with the whole Pacifica battle, which we won.
[19:52.560 --> 20:02.280]  But it's a hollow victory if the station falls apart, if we don't have enough to actually pay the bills.
[20:02.520 --> 20:04.240]  So that's why we need listener help.
[20:04.240 --> 20:07.820]  We need people to call in and show their support to the radio station.
[20:07.820 --> 20:09.160]  Keep us on the air.
[20:09.340 --> 20:13.300]  Keep the station here at 99.5 FM in New York City.
[20:13.420 --> 20:17.020]  50,000 watts of power in the middle of the FM dial.
[20:18.060 --> 20:20.080]  It's not something you're going to find every day.
[20:20.160 --> 20:35.040]  In fact, if this radio station was around today and it wasn't in our hands, it was in the hands of some, say, you know, pop music outfit, it would be worth hundreds of millions of dollars.
[20:35.040 --> 20:38.560]  I mean, people would... we would never be able to get something like this again, ever.
[20:38.780 --> 20:45.220]  It's something that we've had since 1960, and it's something that hopefully we'll have beyond 2060.
[20:46.120 --> 20:50.140]  But it's survived only because of listener support.
[20:50.920 --> 20:55.080]  And it's very important that listeners continue to be out there supporting us.
[20:55.540 --> 20:58.580]  If you've never heard this show before, we're fairly new to this time slot.
[20:58.800 --> 21:07.980]  This is Off the Hook, the program about technology and the threat of Big Brother and the Orwellian and things that are coming down the pike, and we've got all kinds of stories to tell you about this hour.
[21:08.980 --> 21:14.580]  Ask yourself if you've heard stories like this on other places, other radio stations.
[21:15.320 --> 21:16.800]  You most likely haven't.
[21:17.020 --> 21:26.020]  And we're a real thorn in the side of authority figures everywhere because we talk about things that they'd rather we just not talk about.
[21:26.500 --> 21:31.040]  So if you believe in that, give us a call, 212-209-2950.
[21:32.240 --> 21:34.980]  We have all kinds of different pledge levels.
[21:35.640 --> 21:43.020]  I don't want to spend a lot of time talking about, you know, what you pledge to get, a baseball cap or a t-shirt or a coffee mug or a tote bag.
[21:43.120 --> 21:45.020]  Yeah, we have all this, but that's not the reason to call.
[21:45.080 --> 21:48.140]  The reason to call is to keep the station afloat.
[21:48.920 --> 21:55.740]  We take any pledge amount, obviously, the higher the better, but we don't turn anybody away.
[21:55.960 --> 21:57.760]  We need every single pledge.
[21:58.040 --> 22:07.380]  And we have all kinds of different generic BAI premiums that are being offered that the person on the phone will be happy to describe to you.
[22:07.380 --> 22:19.240]  Everything from videos of Democracy Now to health programs to the aforementioned BAI merchandise, such as coffee mugs and tote bags and things like that.
[22:19.980 --> 22:21.440]  212-209-2950.
[22:21.440 --> 22:23.620]  We have two calls on the line right now.
[22:24.160 --> 22:30.260]  I'd really like to see that go up to, say, six, only because I've heard people all day long asking for that number and getting it.
[22:30.340 --> 22:33.420]  And I'd feel like a real chump if I asked for that number and didn't get it.
[22:33.600 --> 22:36.660]  I'd have to wonder if, you know, my approach is wrong.
[22:36.660 --> 22:40.900]  Maybe I should be a little bit more, you know, supportive of some of these policies.
[22:41.360 --> 22:42.880]  Maybe that's what people want to see.
[22:43.040 --> 22:47.600]  You know, I've been looking at polls on sites like CNN.com.
[22:47.840 --> 22:53.620]  And you know how this sudden rash of child snatching all over the state of California and I guess around the country.
[22:54.140 --> 22:57.860]  You know, a lot of people say that the government has to step in to do something about this.
[22:58.660 --> 23:02.400]  This is exactly how these policies get put into effect.
[23:02.400 --> 23:11.260]  It's people begging for the government to come and do something to help them in a situation that really can only be helped by people taking care of themselves.
[23:11.660 --> 23:13.820]  You know, it's not going to work that way.
[23:13.960 --> 23:20.800]  You're just going to get all kinds of crazy regulations, laws, suspicions, that kind of thing.
[23:21.660 --> 23:25.500]  And it's going to be... the reason is going to be because people asked for it.
[23:25.780 --> 23:26.840]  You have to think these things through.
[23:26.940 --> 23:30.360]  You have to look at the bigger picture and see where these policies are going to lead.
[23:30.540 --> 23:34.180]  What kind of a society are we going to have if things like this happen?
[23:35.120 --> 23:36.920]  212-209-2950.
[23:36.920 --> 23:38.500]  We have four calls on the line.
[23:39.040 --> 23:45.280]  That means we just need another two calls and I get my six, which I guess is kind of my personal goal right now.
[23:45.280 --> 23:49.980]  So, we have people listening all around the world and we appreciate that.
[23:50.100 --> 23:51.720]  It's great that we can pull this off.
[23:52.000 --> 23:57.880]  But, you know, this is a show about hacking and the fact that we're able to do this every week is really an example of hacking.
[23:58.440 --> 24:14.920]  How else would you ever expect to be able to speak on a 50,000-watt radio station in New York City and throughout the world over the internet using all kinds of trickery to get the broadcast out there all around the world?
[24:14.920 --> 24:20.300]  I mean, these kinds of things can cost a ton of money, you know, if you let them.
[24:20.500 --> 24:24.640]  Or if you use Ingenuity, you can either do it for free or figure out really cheap alternatives.
[24:25.240 --> 24:33.680]  That's what we've been doing here at the radio station for over 40 years, figuring out alternatives, cheap ways of doing things that would cost millions of dollars at other radio stations.
[24:33.860 --> 24:35.040]  And it's succeeded, you know?
[24:35.100 --> 24:36.040]  We've gotten this far.
[24:36.220 --> 24:37.100]  We're actually around.
[24:37.320 --> 24:39.640]  People all over the world have heard of WBAI.
[24:39.640 --> 24:46.860]  And they've, I guess, been very upset that there isn't something like that in their town.
[24:47.100 --> 24:57.380]  Through the internet, of course, they can hear this station, but it sure would be good if there was a station like this in every town all throughout the world where just alternative thoughts are presented.
[24:57.600 --> 24:59.200]  You know, you don't agree with everything you hear.
[24:59.280 --> 25:00.120]  I certainly don't.
[25:00.420 --> 25:03.480]  But it's very important that the voice be there.
[25:03.580 --> 25:06.140]  And you have to ask yourself, why isn't that voice there?
[25:06.140 --> 25:07.380]  Just tune up and down the dial.
[25:07.500 --> 25:08.340]  Whatever city you're in.
[25:08.440 --> 25:09.700]  Wait for us to be over, at least.
[25:09.820 --> 25:11.120]  But tune up and down the dial.
[25:11.200 --> 25:11.800]  We've all done it.
[25:12.100 --> 25:13.000]  It's all the same.
[25:13.140 --> 25:14.780]  It doesn't even matter what city you're in anymore.
[25:14.840 --> 25:16.100]  It's all the same.
[25:16.780 --> 25:18.220]  Radio is such a powerful tool.
[25:18.400 --> 25:19.100]  Help make it that.
[25:19.240 --> 25:20.780]  212-209-2950.
[25:22.160 --> 25:22.800]  We have...
[25:22.800 --> 25:25.500]  We're down to three calls, so I assume one of those people pledged.
[25:25.600 --> 25:26.460]  But that means...
[25:26.460 --> 25:28.400]  I'm still waiting for two more calls to come in.
[25:28.500 --> 25:30.260]  212-209-2950.
[25:30.900 --> 25:35.800]  Country code one for those people who are outside this country.
[25:36.320 --> 25:37.040]  Except for Canada.
[25:37.500 --> 25:38.740]  But then I guess you still have to dial the one.
[25:38.920 --> 25:40.860]  So, you know, you do that even inside the country.
[25:41.020 --> 25:41.820]  So, I don't know.
[25:41.880 --> 25:42.960]  Just dial the one no matter what.
[25:43.020 --> 25:45.640]  You can't really be harmed by that.
[25:45.680 --> 25:49.620]  In fact, in this city, you're going to have to dial 11 digits to make phone calls.
[25:49.680 --> 25:50.380]  Maybe 10 digits.
[25:50.500 --> 25:51.400]  I'm not sure how that's going to work.
[25:51.520 --> 25:53.380]  You have to dial your area code no matter what.
[25:53.380 --> 25:54.500]  I don't know if you have to dial the one.
[25:54.600 --> 25:56.760]  But this is the show that you're going to find out if you have to dial the one.
[25:56.840 --> 25:59.380]  Because we talk about things like that and let people know.
[25:59.380 --> 26:11.560]  So, 212-209-2950, find out just what's happening in this whole Homeland Defense Operation Tips Society that we're plunging into.
[26:11.840 --> 26:12.940]  I have a tips for you.
[26:13.040 --> 26:13.420]  Oh, boy.
[26:13.580 --> 26:14.140]  What's that?
[26:14.240 --> 26:15.640]  Unfortunately, I only have one tip.
[26:15.700 --> 26:17.560]  So, I was hoping to have several tipses.
[26:17.720 --> 26:19.900]  Well, one tip is... Okay, go ahead.
[26:19.960 --> 26:20.880]  What's the one tips?
[26:21.040 --> 26:25.000]  Well, I was under the Brooklyn Bridge with my camera taking some pictures.
[26:25.320 --> 26:26.400]  Wait a minute, that's suspicious.
[26:26.740 --> 26:27.260]  Very suspicious.
[26:27.260 --> 26:30.200]  Which is... You know we have to report that, right?
[26:30.340 --> 26:31.860]  Well, it was for art.
[26:32.120 --> 26:32.600]  Come on now.
[26:32.720 --> 26:33.700]  Art is very suspicious.
[26:33.980 --> 26:34.480]  Art is your contact?
[26:35.080 --> 26:35.800]  Art's the enemy.
[26:36.200 --> 26:36.880]  That's... All right.
[26:37.000 --> 26:40.320]  Well, maybe you're going to run ahead of me and put in the tips before I can put in my tips.
[26:40.440 --> 26:42.580]  Well, you're closer to the door, but... Okay, go ahead.
[26:42.660 --> 26:43.080]  Tell the story.
[26:43.240 --> 26:45.080]  But I saw a vehicle.
[26:45.360 --> 26:46.520]  A suspicious vehicle.
[26:46.700 --> 26:49.040]  It was suspicious because it was just sort of sitting there.
[26:49.300 --> 26:51.580]  It had all these funny red and blue flashing lights.
[26:52.020 --> 26:53.160]  I really didn't know what to do.
[26:54.180 --> 26:54.960]  So, what did you do?
[26:54.960 --> 26:59.380]  Well, I just stood there for a while, sort of dumbfounded, until it started pulling towards me.
[27:00.320 --> 27:06.920]  At that point, I thought about running and calling the tips line immediately, but I figured I'd talk to the gentleman as he would get to say.
[27:07.060 --> 27:09.020]  I don't think there is a tips line to call yet, though.
[27:09.340 --> 27:09.880]  Is there?
[27:10.060 --> 27:11.040]  Well, I don't know anything.
[27:11.600 --> 27:16.680]  The first I've heard of tips is from earlier this show, so I've been out of the loop.
[27:16.940 --> 27:20.740]  Well, you know, the best way is always to go to the source and find out these things.
[27:21.000 --> 27:32.360]  But anyhow, the fellow in the funny costume inside the car with the funny flashing lights told me that I wasn't allowed to take any pictures down there, and that if I took any more, he would take my film away from me.
[27:32.600 --> 27:32.920]  Really?
[27:33.100 --> 27:33.220]  Yeah.
[27:33.260 --> 27:34.140]  Taking pictures of what?
[27:34.240 --> 27:34.660]  The bridge?
[27:34.800 --> 27:37.800]  Taking pictures of the supports for the bridge.
[27:37.800 --> 27:38.820]  You're kidding.
[27:38.960 --> 27:42.420]  So they've now made it illegal to take pictures of bridge supports.
[27:42.660 --> 27:42.940]  Right.
[27:43.580 --> 27:44.120]  Guess what?
[27:44.240 --> 27:46.080]  I'm going to publish a book on bridge supports.
[27:46.080 --> 27:46.860]  I'll show them.
[27:47.060 --> 27:48.020]  I mean, this is insane.
[27:48.020 --> 27:49.760]  You can't do things like this.
[27:49.920 --> 27:57.100]  I mean, it's right along the same lines of what people can and can't see, what you can and can't show other people, and what you can and can't look at in the future.
[27:57.380 --> 28:00.800]  It's all going to be regulated, or that's what they're trying to do.
[28:01.000 --> 28:03.980]  See, now, I believe that you should battle terrorism.
[28:03.980 --> 28:06.920]  You should battle, you know, all kinds of security problems.
[28:06.920 --> 28:09.340]  But this is extremely stupid.
[28:09.540 --> 28:11.680]  You don't prevent people from walking down streets.
[28:11.840 --> 28:13.420]  You don't prevent people from taking pictures.
[28:14.040 --> 28:20.680]  Our friend AutoJack went back to California this week, and he had bought a one-way ticket.
[28:21.360 --> 28:26.140]  So, of course, they searched his bag, because, as everybody knows, terrorists buy one-way tickets.
[28:26.340 --> 28:27.620]  How stupid is that?
[28:27.700 --> 28:30.700]  All terrorists have to do is buy a round-trip ticket.
[28:30.800 --> 28:35.860]  Do you think they're going to fret over the fact that they're not going to come back on the ticket, that they're probably not going to pay for anyway?
[28:35.860 --> 28:39.220]  You know, sometimes even round-trip tickets are cheaper than one-way tickets.
[28:39.760 --> 28:41.460]  It's the stupidest thing in the world.
[28:41.620 --> 28:46.920]  So, of course, you know, people buying one-way tickets will be as legitimate as people buying round-trip.
[28:47.060 --> 28:48.880]  People paying in pennies are as legitimate.
[28:49.600 --> 28:50.400]  It's nonsense.
[28:50.400 --> 28:52.020]  It's not the way to fight these things.
[28:52.020 --> 28:57.120]  It's the most simplistic, dumb way to deal with complicated issues.
[28:57.620 --> 28:58.280]  Like that.
[28:59.160 --> 29:01.320]  212-209-2950.
[29:01.360 --> 29:02.960]  Oh, we only have one call on the line.
[29:03.820 --> 29:04.880]  Let's get more.
[29:05.100 --> 29:10.180]  As I was saying, I'd like to get the fax, see if there is a TIPS hotline.
[29:10.220 --> 29:11.000]  So let's find out.
[29:11.220 --> 29:12.980]  Go straight to the source.
[29:17.460 --> 29:20.520]  And those of you familiar with the show should recognize that phone number by now.
[29:22.660 --> 29:24.340]  And we're going to enter our secret code.
[29:31.940 --> 29:34.460]  You know, that happens all the time when I try to call the White House now.
[29:35.840 --> 29:36.480]  Isn't that strange?
[29:36.600 --> 29:38.060]  It's almost like they blocked our number.
[29:38.960 --> 29:43.740]  I've made long-distance calls before on this line, and that's the only number that happens to.
[29:45.320 --> 29:46.840]  Wouldn't that be something if they blocked us?
[29:46.900 --> 29:47.760]  They could do that, you know.
[29:47.820 --> 29:48.560]  They could do that.
[29:48.940 --> 29:53.360]  They could see our number coming through and say, no more calls from BAI because they ask too many questions.
[29:53.580 --> 29:54.960]  You know, that is a reorder tone, though.
[29:54.960 --> 29:57.100]  So technically, they are asking for you to try again.
[29:58.700 --> 29:59.760]  I just don't have the time.
[29:59.820 --> 30:03.340]  But if someone out there wants to give the White House a call, please do so.
[30:03.480 --> 30:05.060]  Ask them what the number for Operation TIPS is.
[30:05.140 --> 30:11.860]  And we'll gladly let people know that because, you know, people need to know this kind of thing.
[30:12.000 --> 30:14.540]  There's a lot of suspicious things I've seen lately that need to be reported.
[30:16.880 --> 30:18.860]  And that's what we're here for, to talk about that.
[30:19.000 --> 30:21.040]  212-209-2950.
[30:21.460 --> 30:23.620]  We're up to $175, which is great.
[30:23.620 --> 30:25.320]  Thanks to the people who called in.
[30:25.400 --> 30:26.540]  But we need so much more than that.
[30:26.560 --> 30:28.340]  Our goal for this hour is about $2,000.
[30:28.880 --> 30:31.600]  So obviously, we need more calls.
[30:31.600 --> 30:33.820]  It's 212-209-2950.
[30:34.060 --> 30:35.520]  We're only doing that this week.
[30:35.760 --> 30:48.540]  This is a six-day minithon that is being used to cover some real shortfalls as far as financial business goes.
[30:48.920 --> 30:51.240]  You know, we're not the best in the financial world here.
[30:51.400 --> 30:54.840]  Basically, we're concentrating on radio all the time and getting the word out.
[30:55.980 --> 30:58.540]  And somehow doing it on almost nothing.
[30:59.760 --> 31:02.040]  So that's why we need as much support as we can.
[31:02.040 --> 31:03.340]  You notice we don't have commercials.
[31:04.320 --> 31:07.100]  If we had commercials, we wouldn't be able to talk about this, would we?
[31:07.980 --> 31:09.280]  Now, a lot of people don't see the connection.
[31:09.440 --> 31:14.440]  A lot of people don't realize that having sponsors is not just collecting a check from the sponsors.
[31:14.440 --> 31:20.760]  It's basically kowtowing to them and making sure you only put on programming that they approve of.
[31:20.860 --> 31:22.480]  And what kind of programming would a sponsor want?
[31:22.480 --> 31:27.440]  Something non-controversial, something that wouldn't get people angry, something that wouldn't get people thinking too much.
[31:28.120 --> 31:35.360]  Because if you do that, you run the risk of, you know, someone boycotting the sponsor maybe or associating the sponsor with those opinions.
[31:36.640 --> 31:39.880]  On WBAI, we express our own individual opinions.
[31:40.320 --> 31:44.480]  And we don't subscribe to a party doctrine or anything like that.
[31:44.940 --> 31:48.520]  And listeners, speak up just as much as anyone else.
[31:48.660 --> 31:51.040]  212-209-2950.
[31:51.180 --> 31:52.080]  We have three calls on the line.
[31:52.080 --> 31:53.220]  And please keep those calls coming in.
[31:53.380 --> 31:56.260]  Let's focus on a couple of other news stories here.
[31:56.980 --> 32:11.100]  In one of the largest fraud cases resulting from the terrorist attacks, thousands of people are accused of using ATMs to steal $15 million from a municipal employee's credit union whose computer security system was damaged on September 11th.
[32:11.100 --> 32:13.420]  66 people have been arrested.
[32:13.580 --> 32:16.920]  35 more are being sought in the scheme, authorities said on Monday.
[32:17.620 --> 32:27.360]  District Attorney Robert Morgenthau said the suspects found the way to repeatedly withdraw up to $500 a day from ATMs, even if their accounts at the municipal credit union couldn't cover it.
[32:27.720 --> 32:35.360]  The problem stems from September 11th when the attack on the World Trade Center damaged a nearby building housing the credit union's computer system.
[32:35.360 --> 32:49.500]  Credit union officials soon realized they could not properly monitor the computer network that handles automated teller transactions, but they decided to allow withdrawals without the normal banking safeguards so they would not offend members affected by the tragedy.
[32:50.060 --> 32:53.340]  This is a prime example of no good deed goes unpunished, Morgenthau said.
[32:53.340 --> 32:54.420]  People took advantage.
[32:54.620 --> 32:59.860]  He said as many as 4,000 people manipulated the system to overdraw their bank accounts by at least $1,000.
[33:00.540 --> 33:05.400]  Of that group, more than 540 credit union members exceeded their balances by more than $5,000.
[33:05.840 --> 33:09.920]  Well, you know, this is sleazy behavior, but I don't think it's...
[33:09.920 --> 33:11.160]  You don't think it's sleazy behavior?
[33:11.360 --> 33:11.600]  No.
[33:11.860 --> 33:12.300]  Okay, go ahead.
[33:12.400 --> 33:14.640]  Tell us why taking money you don't have...
[33:14.640 --> 33:19.140]  I want to point out I'm a member of the municipal credit union, so this did affect me.
[33:19.140 --> 33:19.820]  Are you being sought?
[33:20.020 --> 33:20.520]  Are you one of the...
[33:20.520 --> 33:21.200]  No, no, no.
[33:21.300 --> 33:22.200]  Are you 35 people being sought?
[33:22.440 --> 33:22.580]  Okay.
[33:23.340 --> 33:30.080]  What happened was the municipal credit union is primarily city employees, state employees, and such.
[33:30.700 --> 33:39.420]  What happened was when they lost the ability to verify your funds is they assumed that you would be honest and you would only take what was needed.
[33:39.560 --> 33:43.240]  Remember the mentality on September 11th, 12th, 13th.
[33:44.160 --> 33:46.700]  Not quite panic, but agitation.
[33:47.760 --> 33:56.360]  So, everybody was eager to get some cash to get food and, you know, get things squared away in case all hell really broke loose.
[33:57.140 --> 34:02.040]  So, the MCU decided, well, let people take $500 a day out of their account.
[34:02.440 --> 34:04.940]  Well, it took them a month and a half to straighten that out.
[34:05.540 --> 34:11.840]  So, if you were really venal and did this day in and day out, you could easily get $10,000 or so ahead.
[34:12.900 --> 34:14.440]  If you had the money, fine.
[34:14.620 --> 34:16.400]  At the end of this time, they debited your account.
[34:16.400 --> 34:20.540]  If you didn't have the money, they called you up and said, you want to pay it back?
[34:20.660 --> 34:21.820]  You want to make it a loan?
[34:21.920 --> 34:23.640]  Or you want us to come after you?
[34:23.800 --> 34:23.940]  Right.
[34:23.940 --> 34:26.080]  And if you didn't reply, they would come after you.
[34:26.200 --> 34:27.580]  They gave people a lot of time.
[34:27.720 --> 34:32.880]  They put signs up, mailings, signs up in the credit union branches, mailings to all the members.
[34:34.580 --> 34:37.540]  Everyone had the chance to make it right or make it a loan.
[34:38.100 --> 34:38.460]  Okay.
[34:38.520 --> 34:41.000]  So, the people they went after are the people who didn't...
[34:41.000 --> 34:41.820]  Who simply didn't do that.
[34:41.940 --> 34:42.100]  Right.
[34:42.320 --> 34:42.500]  Yeah.
[34:43.140 --> 34:43.500]  Yeah.
[34:43.640 --> 34:45.000]  Well, you see, okay, that's fine.
[34:45.000 --> 34:48.780]  But I consider that to be just plain sleazy behavior.
[34:49.320 --> 34:53.160]  What I don't think is right is them tying it to the terrorist attacks.
[34:53.340 --> 34:59.220]  These people are taking advantage, like going in and stealing stuff from people who weren't around anymore.
[34:59.640 --> 35:01.500]  This is just people taking advantage.
[35:01.700 --> 35:03.240]  It didn't matter how it came about.
[35:03.380 --> 35:04.900]  They weren't thinking of the terrorist attacks.
[35:04.920 --> 35:06.780]  They just were thinking of taking money.
[35:07.240 --> 35:14.040]  And I just don't think it's right to tie it into that because that gets people especially angry at them when someone takes advantage of a situation like that.
[35:14.180 --> 35:17.680]  So, yeah, treat it as just somebody taking advantage of a bank error.
[35:17.680 --> 35:19.520]  But it's nothing more than that.
[35:19.600 --> 35:22.700]  They didn't go into this with, you know, premeditation of terrorism.
[35:23.420 --> 35:23.620]  Okay.
[35:23.980 --> 35:24.260]  All right.
[35:24.560 --> 35:25.660]  I actually agree on that.
[35:25.720 --> 35:26.020]  That's good.
[35:27.300 --> 35:27.940]  Let's see.
[35:29.620 --> 35:32.200]  The Justice Department's Office of the Inspector General...
[35:32.200 --> 35:33.680]  This is a story making the rounds today.
[35:34.100 --> 35:44.660]  ...released an audit report August 5th revealing that more than 400 laptop computers have been reported lost or stolen from justice agencies, including the FBI and the Drug Enforcement Administration.
[35:45.600 --> 35:54.660]  According to the report, it is possible that the missing laptop computers would have been used to process and store national security or sensitive law enforcement information that, if divulged, could harm the public.
[35:54.800 --> 35:55.800]  Nice going, guys.
[35:56.420 --> 35:57.540]  It's unbelievable.
[35:57.840 --> 36:02.180]  In fact, there's a couple from the Department of Homeland Security that have also disappeared.
[36:03.120 --> 36:05.600]  These guys, I mean, they probably didn't even encrypt the data, you know?
[36:05.720 --> 36:09.840]  They're just letting laptops lie around and they disappear and they're acting all surprised.
[36:09.840 --> 36:12.360]  Where did we actually get the JPEGs for those posters?
[36:13.340 --> 36:15.780]  Well, okay, those... you're talking about the posters for H2K, too.
[36:16.360 --> 36:20.020]  They... we got those off a website, but we had to reconstruct them.
[36:20.140 --> 36:20.420]  Oh, okay.
[36:20.680 --> 36:28.100]  Our friend Jeff in New Jersey did all this, and it's unbelievable that he was able to construct this and make it look like... make it look better than the ones they had.
[36:28.180 --> 36:28.720]  They looked fine.
[36:28.720 --> 36:30.320]  I just wanted to make sure it wasn't off a laptop.
[36:31.480 --> 36:32.940]  Well, if it was, it was one of ours.
[36:34.680 --> 36:36.340]  It's my story and I'm sticking to it.
[36:37.600 --> 36:38.240]  All right.
[36:40.080 --> 36:41.180]  What else do we have here?
[36:41.360 --> 36:51.700]  Recent pronouncements from the Bush administration and national security initiatives put in place in the Reagan era could see internment camps and martial law in the United States.
[36:51.700 --> 36:54.680]  This comes from the Sydney Morning Herald over in Australia.
[36:54.960 --> 36:56.340]  A lot of Australian news today.
[36:56.340 --> 37:13.480]  When President Ronald Reagan was considering invading Nicaragua, he issued a series of executive orders that provided the Federal Emergency Management Agency, known as FEMA, with broad powers in the event of a crisis, such as, quote, violent and widespread internal dissent or national opposition against a U.S.
[37:13.860 --> 37:15.320]  military invasion abroad, unquote.
[37:15.640 --> 37:16.880]  They were never used.
[37:17.100 --> 37:19.340]  But with the looming possibility of a U.S.
[37:19.740 --> 37:26.060]  invasion of Iraq, recent pronouncements by President George Bush's domestic security chief Tom Ridge and an official with the U.S.
[37:26.300 --> 37:34.160]  Civil Rights Commission should fire concerns that these powers could be employed or a de facto drift into their deployment could occur.
[37:34.400 --> 37:38.660]  On July 20th, the Detroit Free Press ran a story entitled Arabs in U.S.
[37:38.780 --> 37:40.500]  Could Be Held Official Warns.
[37:40.620 --> 37:42.360]  The story referred to a member of the U.S.
[37:42.580 --> 37:46.740]  Civil Rights Commission who foresaw the possibility of internment camps for Arab Americans.
[37:46.960 --> 37:49.000]  FEMA has practiced for such an occasion.
[37:49.520 --> 37:53.660]  FEMA, whose main role is disaster response, is also responsible for handling U.S.
[37:54.160 --> 37:54.800]  domestic unrest.
[37:55.920 --> 37:59.060]  Just wait for some domestic unrest and you'll see them spring into action.
[37:59.280 --> 38:05.060]  From 1982 to 1984, Colonel Oliver North assisted FEMA in drafting its civil defense preparations.
[38:05.420 --> 38:09.600]  Details of these plans emerged during the 1987 Iran-Contra scandal.
[38:09.860 --> 38:19.700]  They included executive orders providing for suspension of the Constitution, the imposition of martial law, internment camps, and the turning over of government to the President and FEMA.
[38:19.700 --> 38:31.140]  A Miami Herald article on July 5th, 1987 reported that the former FEMA director, Louis Gafrida's deputy, John Brinkerhoff, handled the martial law portion of the planning.
[38:31.400 --> 38:37.520]  The plan was said to be similar to one that he had developed earlier to combat a national uprising by black militants.
[38:37.660 --> 38:46.040]  It provided for the detention, quote, of at least 21 million American Negroes, unquote, in assembly centers or relocation camps.
[38:46.040 --> 38:51.820]  Today, Mr. Brinkerhoff is with the highly influential ANSWER Institute for Homeland Security.
[38:52.140 --> 38:54.980]  Following a request by the Pentagon in January that the U.S.
[38:55.320 --> 39:03.220]  military be allowed the option of deploying troops on American streets, the Institute in February published a paper by Mr. Brinkerhoff arguing the legality of this.
[39:03.340 --> 39:12.900]  He alleged that the Posse Comitatus Act of 1878, which has long been accepted as prohibiting such deployments, has simply been misunderstood and misapplied.
[39:12.900 --> 39:22.080]  The preface to the article also provided the revelation that the national plan he had worked on under Mr. Giafrida was approved by Reagan and actions were taken to implement it.
[39:22.620 --> 39:23.480]  By April, the U.S.
[39:23.820 --> 39:27.100]  military had created a northern command to aid homeland defense.
[39:27.660 --> 39:32.100]  Reuters reported that the command is mainly expected to play a supporting role to local authorities.
[39:32.260 --> 39:37.000]  However, Mr. Ridge, the director of Homeland Security, has just advocated a review of U.S.
[39:37.120 --> 39:40.520]  law regarding the use of the military for law enforcement duties.
[39:41.120 --> 39:46.020]  Disturbingly, the full facts and final contents of Mr. Reagan's national plan remain uncertain.
[39:46.280 --> 39:52.100]  This is in part because President Bush took the unusual step of sealing the Reagan presidential papers last November.
[39:52.780 --> 39:59.760]  However, many of the key figures of the Reagan era are part of the present administration, including John Poindexter, to whom Oliver North later reported.
[40:00.040 --> 40:16.960]  At the time of the Reagan initiatives, the then Attorney General William French Smith wrote to the National Security Advisor, Robert McFarlane, I believe that the role assigned to the Federal Emergency Management Agency in the revised executive order exceeds its proper function as a coordinating agency for emergency preparedness.
[40:17.340 --> 40:24.160]  This department and others have repeatedly raised serious policy and legal objections to an emergency czar role for FEMA.
[40:24.880 --> 40:29.900]  Criticism of the Bush administration's response to September 11th echoes Mr. Smith's warning.
[40:30.500 --> 40:39.120]  On June 7th, the former presidential counsel, John Dean, spoke of America sliding into a constitutional dictatorship and martial law.
[40:39.460 --> 40:41.200]  This stuff is very real, folks.
[40:41.320 --> 40:42.820]  It's happening.
[40:43.000 --> 40:44.140]  It's happening right in front of us.
[40:44.280 --> 40:50.400]  And with every bad piece of legislation out there, I think we slide one step closer to real tyranny.
[40:50.780 --> 40:52.780]  So you've got to keep awake.
[40:53.740 --> 40:56.020]  Keep your, you know, your eyes open.
[40:56.580 --> 41:07.940]  You know, FEMA was originally formed for maintaining, or this is my understanding, for maintaining the backup government, as it were, which is inside Mount Weather in the Blue Ridge Mountains of Virginia.
[41:08.420 --> 41:15.140]  And this government is obviously not active in lawmaking or governance the way it is right now.
[41:15.140 --> 41:22.040]  It's sort of in a semi-hibernation mode all the time, but it does keep track of current affairs constantly, and it's maintained by FEMA.
[41:22.220 --> 41:40.320]  And the idea is that when this government goes, whether it's because it's overthrown by the people or because all three branches are destroyed by terrorists or anything in between, of course, those are all exactly the same thing, this government will pop its head out and take over.
[41:40.520 --> 41:47.360]  So, you know, it kind of undermines what democracy is all about, which is that the government is installed by the people, and when the people don't want it anymore, out it goes.
[41:47.360 --> 41:51.920]  Well, even if out it goes, you've got FEMA waiting there with their backup government.
[41:52.060 --> 41:53.560]  The people can't even walk down the street.
[41:53.560 --> 41:56.220]  I don't think the people are being consulted very much on any of this.
[41:56.220 --> 42:10.820]  It's just happening, you know, right in front of our eyes, and there's not a damn thing we can do about it except, you know, let people know and get people upset enough to actually, you know, do something and spread the news, that kind of thing.
[42:12.200 --> 42:14.180]  212-209-2950 is our phone number.
[42:14.200 --> 42:15.280]  Phone lines are wide open.
[42:15.420 --> 42:20.360]  We've only raised $450 this hour, and we need to raise more than that.
[42:20.360 --> 42:26.520]  We need to triple that, at least, if we're going to slink out of here with any dignity tonight.
[42:27.380 --> 42:29.420]  You've heard some of the things we're talking about.
[42:29.500 --> 42:32.160]  You've heard the things we've talked about over the weeks, over the years.
[42:33.000 --> 42:49.340]  If you want that to continue, and this is not a threat, this is just basically reality, if you want it to continue, the station has to remain strong, and when the station is strong, that means that we can stay on the air and have all kinds of different programming and things like that.
[42:49.420 --> 42:51.200]  212-209-2950.
[42:51.500 --> 42:54.980]  Again, if you've already pledged in the past, we thank you for that.
[42:55.540 --> 43:00.400]  Please consider making an additional pledge during this emergency fundraiser.
[43:00.520 --> 43:03.100]  That's basically what this is, because it's not one of the planned ones.
[43:03.320 --> 43:09.480]  This is one of the ones that happen occasionally when there's a shortfall of some sort, due to all kinds of different reasons.
[43:10.220 --> 43:23.040]  I imagine a lot of this has to do with the deficit that was incurred when Pacifica was almost driven into the ground by evil people a year or so ago and throughout the last decade.
[43:24.320 --> 43:25.820]  We're in the process of rebuilding.
[43:26.020 --> 43:27.640]  We're in the process of bringing this place back.
[43:28.060 --> 43:38.900]  But we've been left with all kinds of debt from those past years, debt that has to be paid, unfortunately, despite the fact that the people here had nothing to do with it.
[43:41.760 --> 43:50.680]  Once we get through that and we have made a significant dent in it, this place will actually, I think, start to really be strong.
[43:50.860 --> 43:52.660]  We won't have to do this quite as much.
[43:53.540 --> 43:56.060]  212-209-2950 is our phone number.
[43:56.200 --> 44:05.340]  Again, for people who were holding out over the last year because of the way things were going here, well, hopefully you held on to what you were holding out on.
[44:05.820 --> 44:10.600]  And you can pledge that to us now because we definitely could use the help.
[44:10.740 --> 44:15.560]  Again, we have all kinds of different premiums, all kinds of things for the radio station.
[44:15.700 --> 44:24.900]  We're not going to go into a whole lot of detail because that's, you know, the main reason that you should call up is because you want to support the radio station because you want to invest in this.
[44:24.980 --> 44:26.860]  You want to invest in free speech.
[44:26.860 --> 44:30.120]  There's no easier way, no better way to do that right at this point.
[44:30.300 --> 44:31.540]  A lot of people are frustrated now.
[44:31.640 --> 44:36.600]  A lot of people are very agitated by what's been going on, by the news they've been hearing.
[44:37.600 --> 44:42.540]  And, you know, I see people turning off their TV sets and just walking away in despair and thinking it's going to go away.
[44:42.540 --> 44:44.000]  It's not going to go away, you know.
[44:44.200 --> 44:46.740]  Closing your eyes and closing your ears is not going to do it.
[44:46.880 --> 44:47.580]  Not this time.
[44:48.200 --> 44:55.080]  You need to rally around and speak up and hear what's really going on, hear different views, different perspectives.
[44:55.440 --> 44:56.900]  Don't take our word for it.
[44:56.960 --> 44:58.040]  Don't accept our conclusions.
[44:58.200 --> 44:59.500]  Reach your own conclusions.
[44:59.700 --> 45:02.280]  But the only way to do that is to listen to multiple sources.
[45:02.820 --> 45:09.500]  What other place on the FN dial or the AM dial or the TV dial gives you as many different sources as WBAI?
[45:09.960 --> 45:12.580]  I dare say not very many at all, if any.
[45:13.620 --> 45:15.980]  212-209-2950 is our phone number.
[45:16.100 --> 45:17.760]  We've got three calls on the line.
[45:18.160 --> 45:19.440]  We need to build that up.
[45:19.680 --> 45:22.160]  I said, you know, I wanted to have six calls on the line before.
[45:22.340 --> 45:22.740]  Okay, great.
[45:22.740 --> 45:25.980]  But we need to raise funds.
[45:26.040 --> 45:28.460]  We need to at least get over $1,000 in the next couple of minutes.
[45:29.300 --> 45:30.620]  That's what we're hoping for.
[45:31.000 --> 45:35.940]  And to entice people further, I think these news stories are probably enticing people.
[45:35.940 --> 45:38.760]  Here's something to look forward to.
[45:38.940 --> 45:47.800]  We're talking about the stupid way that people or authorities look into potential security holes.
[45:48.120 --> 45:52.580]  Well, I think they realize is that these methods are stupid and ineffective.
[45:53.020 --> 45:59.340]  So, you know, they're going from bad to worse by trying to come up with something that is super effective.
[45:59.820 --> 46:04.000]  Yeah, this is the total tech spy system that's being developed.
[46:04.400 --> 46:09.520]  Now, had Winston Churchill been alive in the month subsequent to September 11th, he might well have described U.S.
[46:09.920 --> 46:12.020]  intelligence agency's performance prior to the attack.
[46:12.200 --> 46:15.940]  Thusly, never have so many known so much and done so little.
[46:17.020 --> 46:30.820]  On Wednesday, the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency, DARPA, will begin awarding contracts for the design and implementation of a total information awareness system, TIA.
[46:31.920 --> 46:32.940]  Are you laughing, Claude?
[46:32.980 --> 46:33.740]  You think it's funny?
[46:34.300 --> 46:36.160]  You have a joke you'd like to share with us?
[46:36.200 --> 46:37.460]  Because I don't think this is the joke.
[46:37.460 --> 46:38.660]  I don't think this is what's funny.
[46:39.280 --> 46:40.360]  Okay, then get to the joke.
[46:40.480 --> 46:40.660]  Uh-huh.
[46:40.840 --> 46:40.960]  Yeah.
[46:41.620 --> 46:44.980]  I don't know if there is a joke at the end of this story, but I'll look for one.
[46:45.740 --> 46:58.020]  It's a system which it hopes will ferret out terrorist information signatures, clues available before an attack, but usually not correctly interpreted until afterwards, and decode them prior to an assault.
[46:58.440 --> 47:07.040]  It's a task, the Information Awareness Office says, that is beyond our current intelligent infrastructure and other government agencies.
[47:07.860 --> 47:13.160]  TIA program directors make it clear they also believe the task to be beyond current technology.
[47:13.160 --> 47:30.440]  noting that they are primarily interested in revolutionary advances in science, technology, or systems, and, quote, development of collaboration, automation, and cognitive aids, technologies that allow humans and machines to think together about complicated and complex problems,
[47:30.620 --> 47:30.960]  unquote.
[47:31.940 --> 47:34.340]  Humans and machines thinking together about this.
[47:34.760 --> 47:51.460]  So insistent are they on building a better mousetrap, or more accurately, a brand new terrorist trap, that they have officially warned potential contractors that not a dime will be invested in, quote, research that primarily results in evolutionary improvements to existing technology,
[47:51.660 --> 47:51.980]  unquote.
[47:52.980 --> 47:54.560]  Think about that for a second.
[47:54.720 --> 48:03.640]  They just want to leapfrog over any kind of development and just get to the, you know, I guess the part of human evolution where we become gods or something like that.
[48:04.160 --> 48:09.960]  Not a dime will be invested in research that primarily results in evolutionary improvements to existing technology.
[48:10.200 --> 48:14.220]  How else does technology improve if not through evolution?
[48:14.520 --> 48:19.300]  You know, you can't just jump a thousand years into the future and expect it to suddenly work.
[48:19.800 --> 48:25.280]  They're wishing for magic here, and I think that's what they're willing to pay for.
[48:26.060 --> 48:43.560]  According to the IAO's blueprint, IAO being Information Awareness Office, TIA's five-year goal, and again, TIA is Total Information Awareness System, TIA's five-year goal is the, quote, total reinvention of technologies for storing and accessing information.
[48:44.540 --> 48:45.920]  You think that's funny, huh?
[48:46.160 --> 48:46.680]  Oh, it's hilarious.
[48:47.020 --> 48:47.840]  It gets better.
[48:48.240 --> 48:59.380]  Although database size will no longer be measured in the traditional sense, the amounts of data that will need to be stored and accessed will be unprecedented, measured in petabytes.
[49:00.260 --> 49:01.480]  Is that like pedophiles?
[49:02.380 --> 49:04.480]  I don't know, but how big is a petabyte?
[49:05.000 --> 49:08.220]  I think it's a million terabytes.
[49:08.700 --> 49:09.400]  A million terabytes?
[49:09.660 --> 49:11.200]  Oh, actually, I'm not sure if it's a million or a thousand.
[49:11.940 --> 49:13.840]  I think my MP3s take up about...
[49:13.840 --> 49:15.180]  Well, all right.
[49:15.260 --> 49:16.120]  Well, it's big.
[49:16.240 --> 49:17.480]  It's really, really, really big.
[49:17.720 --> 49:25.500]  Yeah, the first problem with this is that I don't know since when government started being the driving force behind new technology.
[49:26.640 --> 49:36.500]  It's always been a combination of educational institutions and corporations that have pushed the limits forward of things like data storage.
[49:37.720 --> 49:42.400]  And certainly, terabyte storage is not something totally unprecedented.
[49:43.040 --> 49:51.160]  But the other thing, just putting all of that aside, is that why do we think that bringing technology to this nth degree is going to solve anything?
[49:51.160 --> 49:55.920]  Where is all of the energy that should be going into understanding who these people are, why they're doing this?
[49:56.260 --> 49:58.680]  Oh, we're too busy invading other countries now.
[49:58.740 --> 49:59.580]  You know, we have to do that.
[49:59.760 --> 50:03.480]  And we'll be all surprised when they react against it a few years down the road.
[50:03.640 --> 50:09.860]  It seems like the more we depend on technology, the less time we spend thinking about what people's actual motivations and desires are.
[50:10.260 --> 50:11.300]  Two quick things.
[50:11.760 --> 50:15.260]  Number one, the bit about science doesn't proceed by evolution.
[50:15.460 --> 50:15.860]  It does.
[50:16.000 --> 50:18.260]  It's just that evolution doesn't proceed the way you think it does.
[50:18.720 --> 50:23.860]  Take machine-powered flight at the turn of the past century.
[50:23.860 --> 50:26.740]  Everybody was trying to put a steam engine on a glider.
[50:26.940 --> 50:31.600]  The Wright brothers went and took a gasoline engine and put it on a glider.
[50:32.000 --> 50:33.480]  Same thing with the dinosaurs.
[50:33.740 --> 50:35.360]  The dinosaurs did not become intelligent.
[50:35.440 --> 50:39.700]  A small mammal evolved eventually and the dinosaurs died off.
[50:39.900 --> 50:44.000]  Steam-engined gliders died off and gasoline-engined gliders became airplanes.
[50:44.800 --> 50:48.920]  Secondly, there's no way this sort of thing is going to work anyway.
[50:49.140 --> 50:52.340]  You have a cadre of people who want to do something.
[50:52.720 --> 50:53.900]  They're going to be there.
[50:54.000 --> 50:54.740]  They're going to adapt.
[50:54.740 --> 50:57.620]  They're going to look for a hole sooner or later.
[50:57.940 --> 50:59.620]  Sooner or later, they will find a hole.
[50:59.760 --> 51:00.660]  They will communicate.
[51:01.100 --> 51:02.220]  Sometimes you'll intercept them.
[51:02.360 --> 51:03.420]  Sometimes you won't.
[51:04.600 --> 51:06.960]  The point is they don't have to win every time.
[51:07.120 --> 51:08.380]  They just got to win once.
[51:08.580 --> 51:08.660]  Right.
[51:08.900 --> 51:09.000]  Right.
[51:09.000 --> 51:09.200]  Exactly.
[51:10.580 --> 51:12.500]  212-209-2950.
[51:12.780 --> 51:16.180]  Please give us a call so that we can continue talking about such things.
[51:16.440 --> 51:17.460]  Let's finish with this story.
[51:17.620 --> 51:29.580]  It is precisely the thought of petabytes of raw data being under the control of an agency with limited public accountability that troubles civil liberties activists like Li Tian, senior staff attorney of the Electronic Frontier Foundation.
[51:29.960 --> 51:36.400]  He says we should resist the expansion of any data valence program that doesn't have adequate safeguards and accountability.
[51:36.740 --> 51:41.620]  This program sounds like a counterpart of the movement toward requiring a national ID card.
[51:41.820 --> 51:46.040]  People like to think of that as an identification system but it's actually a tracking system.
[51:46.220 --> 52:03.520]  The Total Information Awareness Program with its ability to provide persistent storage of everything from credit card to employment to medical to ISP records it's a recipe for civil liberties disaster unless there are provisions for citizens to find out who is looking at their records and to see and correct those records.
[52:03.720 --> 52:18.600]  What I don't want to see is a system that's the worst of both worlds unable to predict acts of terrorism in a timely manner because of the sheer mass of mostly irrelevant information clogging its channels but perfectly attuned for intimate spying on regular citizens and activists like Martin Luther King.
[52:19.040 --> 52:36.240]  And if you recall in certain parts of the world places like East Germany and Romania there was so much spying on citizens going on every other person seemed like was spying on every other person but nobody was able to actually go through the information because there was just so much of it.
[52:36.660 --> 52:58.140]  You know in 1989 they discovered roomfuls of cassette tapes in Bucharest that had never been listened to because there was just so much of it there weren't enough people to listen and figure out what was on it but everybody knew that they were being watched and monitored and it put in this really paranoid type of feeling into every single person and that's exactly what you will have with a
[52:58.140 --> 52:59.080]  situation like this.
[52:59.320 --> 53:08.080]  212-209-2950 if we haven't convinced you by now that this information is important to be heard over the airwaves I don't think there's anything else we can possibly do.
[53:09.360 --> 53:12.740]  You're not going to be able to switch to another station and hear about this.
[53:12.880 --> 53:13.840]  You just will not.
[53:13.940 --> 53:14.880]  You'll hear bits and pieces.
[53:15.060 --> 53:19.720]  You'll hear the Associated Press's version and you'll hear the same wording everywhere you go.
[53:20.340 --> 53:24.740]  But you won't hear all kinds of analysis like we bring you.
[53:24.960 --> 53:30.700]  You won't have the opportunity to speak about it yourself on the airwaves as so many shows on this radio station afford you.
[53:31.120 --> 53:34.720]  212-209-2950 we have one call on the line.
[53:34.720 --> 53:40.620]  We need about four or five more and we're only on for a few more minutes so please make that phone call.
[53:40.820 --> 53:45.600]  I'm going to finish up this story now and by the time I finish this story we've got three paragraphs to go.
[53:45.760 --> 53:49.300]  I hope to see a little display of lights on the thing up there.
[53:49.480 --> 53:50.260]  There's one light now.
[53:50.340 --> 53:51.440]  Let's get some more.
[53:51.600 --> 53:53.020]  And I don't just want them to ring.
[53:53.120 --> 53:56.000]  I want people to be on the other end and making pledges that kind of thing.
[53:56.160 --> 53:57.760]  So please call up and make a pledge.
[53:57.920 --> 53:58.760]  It's not that hard.
[53:58.980 --> 54:00.920]  I think everybody in this room has done it at some point.
[54:01.200 --> 54:02.520]  It's really not that difficult.
[54:02.820 --> 54:06.440]  You make a phone call and give some basic information.
[54:06.440 --> 54:13.640]  Not the kind of information that the TIA people want but just basically how much you want to pledge and who you are.
[54:13.640 --> 54:18.480]  If you want to use a credit card we accept Visa, MasterCard, American Express, all that kind of thing.
[54:19.680 --> 54:23.720]  It's a really good feeling to know that you're supporting something important like WBAI.
[54:23.840 --> 54:26.020]  212-209-2950.
[54:26.220 --> 54:26.820]  Please call now.
[54:27.020 --> 54:30.060]  We're running out of time in many respects.
[54:30.700 --> 54:31.520]  Finishing up this story.
[54:31.700 --> 54:34.700]  Even in these early days Tian's concerns have some resonance.
[54:35.260 --> 54:35.740]  That's right.
[54:35.820 --> 54:36.840]  These are the early days.
[54:37.140 --> 54:37.760]  Imagine that.
[54:37.980 --> 54:41.260]  Among the topics DARPA spokespersons would not discuss.
[54:41.920 --> 54:46.120]  This is what they would not talk about to people asking questions.
[54:47.300 --> 54:49.140]  Were the program's budget?
[54:49.560 --> 54:55.900]  Whether the technology was being developed for deployment by an existing intelligence department or a new super spy agency?
[54:56.240 --> 55:00.500]  And which program elements the contracts being issued this month covered?
[55:00.720 --> 55:01.440]  They would not...
[55:01.440 --> 55:03.120]  They refused to talk about any of that.
[55:03.560 --> 55:04.620]  You have to wonder.
[55:06.260 --> 55:22.120]  This DARPA project sounds a lot like Spielberg's Minority Report premise of pre-crime, said security consultant and author Richard Fornow, who I believe has spoken at the Hope Conferences, referring to the fictional law enforcement office that arrest folks before they commit a crime.
[55:22.540 --> 55:25.880]  I mean, I'm a geek, but my two degrees are in international relations.
[55:26.020 --> 55:32.360]  Does that mean if all of a sudden I start buying books on terrorism, bio-war, or current affairs, I'm going to be labeled a potential bad guy?
[55:33.040 --> 55:34.000]  It's quite possible.
[55:34.060 --> 55:34.520]  Hey, look at that.
[55:34.640 --> 55:36.200]  Four calls on the line there.
[55:36.260 --> 55:37.120]  That's good news.
[55:37.200 --> 55:37.640]  That's good news.
[55:37.760 --> 55:45.020]  Please, keep those calls coming in because we haven't yet broken 1,000 and the personal challenge I was issued upon entering the door today was 2,000.
[55:45.520 --> 55:50.660]  And I might be mocked and ridiculed on my way out of here if I don't reach that goal.
[55:50.800 --> 55:53.100]  So please, 212-209-2950.
[55:53.340 --> 55:59.260]  If you've gotten anything out of Off the Hook over the years or even over the last few minutes, please invest in our future.
[56:00.080 --> 56:01.980]  It doesn't go directly to us.
[56:01.980 --> 56:07.600]  It goes to the radio station, keeps the station strong, and that's what keeps this show on the air.
[56:08.100 --> 56:09.220]  You're a listener support.
[56:09.360 --> 56:09.920]  You're the sponsors.
[56:10.080 --> 56:11.860]  You're the people that make it all possible.
[56:12.180 --> 56:23.520]  Unlike any of those other places that ask for money that pay their executives 100 grand a year or something like that, nobody here, believe me, if you've ever seen any of us, you would know nobody here is getting rich.
[56:24.960 --> 56:26.960]  We basically believe in broadcasting.
[56:26.960 --> 56:30.320]  We believe in telling the story as we know it.
[56:30.560 --> 56:35.900]  It's not to say that we get it right all the time with all kinds of mistakes that we make, but we're honest about it.
[56:36.000 --> 56:38.820]  You know, if we have something to correct, we correct it.
[56:39.140 --> 56:42.360]  If we report a story wrong, we fix it.
[56:42.420 --> 56:43.000]  We try to.
[56:43.400 --> 56:47.880]  And of course, you'll hear bias of all kinds, but you hear that anywhere you go.
[56:48.060 --> 56:50.600]  You will hear that on the CBS Evening News.
[56:50.780 --> 56:58.120]  And it's a lot of fun to point out the bias that people don't see going on right in front of them because they're so used to it.
[56:58.200 --> 56:59.120]  It's happening all the time.
[56:59.760 --> 57:01.520]  212-209-2950.
[57:01.740 --> 57:07.960]  The last few minutes of this particular radio program, please call in your pledges.
[57:08.400 --> 57:10.520]  I guess we're out of time because it's 7.57.
[57:10.840 --> 57:13.940]  So folks, say good night and I guess we'll be back next week.
[57:14.520 --> 57:17.520]  Does that sound sound good to you?
[57:17.960 --> 57:18.940]  Sounds good to me.
[57:19.600 --> 57:21.840]  212-209-2950.
[57:22.100 --> 57:23.840]  Three people are on the line.
[57:24.080 --> 57:28.700]  Let the listeners who are listening right now add to that.
[57:29.320 --> 57:29.500]  Yeah.
[57:30.100 --> 57:33.320]  Every person matters and this is one good way to prove it.
[57:34.500 --> 57:37.140]  212-209-2950.
[57:37.500 --> 57:38.380]  Make your call.
[57:38.680 --> 57:39.360]  Cast your vote.
[57:39.940 --> 57:40.980]  Let freedom ring.
[57:40.980 --> 57:42.200]  And we'll see you next week.
[57:42.400 --> 57:43.100]  Good night.
[57:52.330 --> 58:30.290]  What's a thousand shades of gray A beauty only singing by day Stay for Sunday by Pigeons fly Where I feel okay London Bridge Fallen Down Taking bits from all the round Give me dollars I don't want pounds London Bridge Fallen Down But I still love this town From the tower to the underground Now Rome is wrong But it ain't home And neither is Paris
[58:35.530 --> 58:38.650]  This is home to me.
[58:39.850 --> 58:44.030]  London Bridge falling down and taking bits of all the land.
[58:44.290 --> 58:46.690]  Give me dollars, I don't want pounds.