[00:00.820 --> 00:11.220]  ...have testified that Thomas Sr. reached for a gun in his console when Miller pulled his gun, but have consistently maintained that Thomas did not fire the gun.
[00:11.700 --> 00:16.260]  The county review board ruled that Miller was justified in killing Thomas in self-defense.
[00:16.940 --> 00:22.580]  During testimony, Miller stated that he demanded that the Thomas family leave the area several times.
[00:23.240 --> 00:30.540]  Thomas Sr., he testified, then reached for a gun in his console, which misfired, causing Miller to pull his gun and shoot.
[00:30.820 --> 00:35.520]  Marshall contends the crime scene and investigation of the case were flawed from the beginning.
[00:36.020 --> 00:39.560]  Deputy Mel Miller was allowed to have contact with the crime scene.
[00:40.160 --> 00:49.240]  Miller checked Thomas Sr.'s pulse, wrongly concluding that Thomas was already dead, precluding, in Marshall's words, aid people from providing medical assistance.
[00:50.000 --> 00:55.280]  Another deputy testified that after the shooting, he reached into Thomas' vehicle for the gun without love.
[00:55.920 --> 01:00.500]  Miller was allowed to suffer with other deputies, rather than being placed in isolation.
[01:00.820 --> 01:01.460]  For free speech radio news, this is Brian Marshall.
[01:01.460 --> 01:02.380]  Again, Brian Marshall.
[01:03.220 --> 01:23.720]  In the Rodney King situation, we had a video tape where the evidence conclusively showed that the police violated Mr. King's constitutional civil rights, and yet a jury in Simi Valley concluded that the police had done nothing wrong.
[01:24.180 --> 01:28.300]  Well, in those types of situations, that's why we have a federal government.
[01:28.300 --> 01:32.020]  For free speech radio news, this is Michael Baskin, reporting.
[01:33.240 --> 01:36.420]  The people united will never be defeated!
[01:38.080 --> 01:41.080]  Thank you for listening to free speech radio news.
[01:41.300 --> 01:44.640]  I'm Carlos Favara, sitting in for Deepak Hernandez.
[01:49.970 --> 01:51.250]  Yeah, how's this for a compromise?
[01:52.570 --> 01:56.270]  Instead of cutting off the news when it runs late, we'll just play the shows both at the same time.
[01:56.410 --> 01:57.710]  Maybe left speaker, right speaker.
[01:57.830 --> 02:04.630]  That way, until they get a watch down there, we can enjoy all the radio that B.A.I.
[02:04.810 --> 02:04.970]  brings you.
[02:05.050 --> 02:07.190]  Too much radio to fit into a 24-hour period.
[02:08.590 --> 02:10.110]  Oh, how is everybody this week?
[02:10.810 --> 02:11.190]  Jim?
[02:11.370 --> 02:11.630]  Oh, just fine.
[02:11.630 --> 02:12.950]  You've got an article there?
[02:13.170 --> 02:16.370]  Oh, I've got an article that just reminds me of all my troubles.
[02:16.570 --> 02:17.030]  All your troubles.
[02:17.170 --> 02:17.930]  Well, that would be many.
[02:18.070 --> 02:19.390]  So which troubles are we talking about here?
[02:19.450 --> 02:20.110]  Oh, oh, oh.
[02:20.170 --> 02:22.550]  Well, we're talking MetroCard funnies once again.
[02:22.650 --> 02:22.810]  Uh-huh.
[02:23.130 --> 02:23.350]  Yeah.
[02:23.590 --> 02:24.370]  What's the name of the MetroCard?
[02:24.370 --> 02:28.610]  I didn't get to take the train today because I had to park outside because of traffic conditions.
[02:29.330 --> 02:31.510]  It's great being in a traffic jam that doesn't exist.
[02:31.730 --> 02:35.890]  You know, it's kind of Orwellian, but you listen to the radio and they give all the traffic reports.
[02:35.890 --> 02:40.050]  And the one you're in, just, there are ones around you, but not the one you're in.
[02:40.190 --> 02:41.910]  It's like, it's like you're imagining it.
[02:42.430 --> 02:45.570]  It really, you know, it gives you an inferiority complex on top of the frustration.
[02:45.890 --> 02:47.850]  You looked out the window, there was a traffic jam.
[02:47.870 --> 02:48.410]  I was in it.
[02:48.470 --> 02:49.350]  I was in it for an hour and a half.
[02:49.350 --> 02:50.530]  But it was not reported.
[02:50.650 --> 02:51.630]  They reported all around you.
[02:51.630 --> 02:55.250]  And they reported the traffic jams in the other direction on the same road.
[02:55.310 --> 02:56.430]  And they were moving fine.
[02:56.730 --> 02:57.170]  Oh, okay.
[02:57.470 --> 03:00.770]  You know, they said westbound on the, actually I said eastbound on the LIE.
[03:01.010 --> 03:02.630]  It was, uh, it was, uh, really bad.
[03:02.630 --> 03:04.510]  And I was going westbound and not moving.
[03:04.610 --> 03:08.110]  This is going to be absolutely no consolation, but there is a reasonable explanation.
[03:08.510 --> 03:10.610]  You were technically not in the traffic jam.
[03:10.730 --> 03:11.950]  You were in the rubbernecking jam.
[03:12.650 --> 03:17.750]  No, it was a moron who had, uh, I don't know, jackknifed his SUV or something like that.
[03:17.830 --> 03:18.290]  On your side?
[03:18.370 --> 03:18.890]  On my side.
[03:18.950 --> 03:19.190]  Oh, okay.
[03:19.190 --> 03:21.050]  I don't want to talk about traffic the whole hour.
[03:21.150 --> 03:24.410]  Well, I don't want to talk about metric cards either, but it is, uh, sort of news.
[03:24.630 --> 03:24.950]  Okay.
[03:25.450 --> 03:25.930]  Tell us what that is.
[03:26.010 --> 03:26.970]  It's, it's not much.
[03:27.090 --> 03:30.970]  It's just, uh, the current Time Out New York, our favorite New York magazine.
[03:30.970 --> 03:33.110]  Well, one of our favorite New York magazines.
[03:33.430 --> 03:45.570]  The technology column, Angela Gunn, who is reporting on our, uh, latest Stage 2, K2 conference and other things, uh, goes back and, uh, gives a little few tidbits about the MetroCard.
[03:45.670 --> 03:46.670]  There's nothing much new.
[03:46.810 --> 03:53.530]  Technically, she just reports on the Legendary Hackers on Planet Earth conference and, uh, my talk there.
[03:54.110 --> 03:58.810]  And, uh, some little legalistic things about MetroCards and the fact that you can bend them.
[03:59.450 --> 04:06.490]  And, uh, it's not, it's more serious than just jumping over the turnstiles if you bend a card and fool the machine into thinking there's a fair there.
[04:06.670 --> 04:14.990]  It's considered forgery, uh, just like, uh, as she puts it, uh, adding a codicil to Grandpa's will to give you the, uh, the estate.
[04:15.930 --> 04:16.810]  Just like that, huh?
[04:16.810 --> 04:25.170]  Or, or doing something that, uh, Martha Stewart's stockbroker or Enron's people or WorldCom's people did, you know, forging the figures.
[04:25.410 --> 04:25.590]  Mm-hmm.
[04:26.950 --> 04:30.630]  Uh, like I said, no good news for me or anyone else in this boat.
[04:30.830 --> 04:37.050]  Uh, you haven't, you haven't been, uh, forgerizing, uh, I never did, but that's what I'm accused of.
[04:37.190 --> 04:37.330]  Yeah.
[04:38.910 --> 04:40.510]  So, what new comes out of this article?
[04:40.830 --> 04:41.510]  Nothing much.
[04:41.690 --> 04:45.490]  She just compliments the original HOPE conference, and that's it.
[04:45.490 --> 04:50.110]  There was a front page article today, I don't know if people saw this, I'm still rather shocked by it, um...
[04:50.110 --> 04:51.710]  In what publication?
[04:52.570 --> 04:54.370]  What is this, the McCarthy hearings?
[04:54.470 --> 04:55.670]  I'm, I'm gonna get to that, alright?
[04:55.790 --> 05:02.510]  I'm, I'm talking about a front page article, that's shocking, I would like to get into this, and, uh, you know, all the information will be revealed, okay?
[05:02.790 --> 05:06.490]  The second person to accuse me of being a McCarthy aide in not very much time, but that's okay.
[05:06.510 --> 05:09.510]  Well, you know, you should look at that, you should ask yourself why that might be.
[05:10.150 --> 05:19.350]  Alright, the Recording Industry of America filed a, get this, 7.1 billion dollar lawsuit against the nation's radio stations on Monday.
[05:19.510 --> 05:20.470]  That's us, the radio stations.
[05:20.750 --> 05:24.130]  Accusing them of freely distributing copyrighted music.
[05:24.590 --> 05:25.090]  Yeah.
[05:25.430 --> 05:28.490]  It's criminal, according to RIAA President Hillary Rosen.
[05:29.150 --> 05:33.710]  Uh, anyone at any time can simply turn on a radio and hear a copyrighted song.
[05:33.870 --> 05:40.990]  Making matters worse, these radio stations often play the best, catchiest song off the album over and over until people get sick of it.
[05:41.270 --> 05:43.510]  Where is the incentive for people to go out and buy the album?
[05:43.910 --> 05:56.650]  According to Rosen, the radio stations acquire copies of RIAA artists' CDs and then broadcast them using a special transmitter, making it possible for anyone with a compatible radio wave receiver to listen to the songs.
[05:57.170 --> 06:00.190]  These radio stations are extremely popular, Rosen said.
[06:00.190 --> 06:12.570]  They flagrantly string our songs together in uninterrupted music blocks of up to 70 minutes in length, broadcasting nearly one CD's worth of product without a break, and they actually have the gall to allow businesses to advertise between songs.
[06:12.850 --> 06:17.470]  It's bad enough that they're giving away our music for free, but they're actually making a profit off this scheme.
[06:18.330 --> 06:22.110]  RIAA attorney Russell Frackman said the lawsuit is intended to protect the artists.
[06:22.330 --> 06:27.670]  If this radio trend continues, it will severely damage a musician's ability to earn a living off his music, Frackman said.
[06:28.450 --> 06:33.970]  Metallica drummer Lars Ulrich stopped in the other day wondering why his last royalty check was so small, and I didn't know what to say.
[06:34.130 --> 06:38.190]  How do you tell a man who's devoted his whole life to his music that someone is able to just give it away for free?
[06:38.470 --> 06:42.490]  That pirates are taking away his right to support himself with this craft, with his craft?
[06:43.270 --> 06:53.390]  For the record companies and the RIAA, one of the most disturbing aspects of the radio station broadcast is that anyone with a receiver and an analog tape recorder can record the music and play it back at will.
[06:53.870 --> 06:59.210]  I've heard reports that children as young as eight tape radio broadcasts for their own personal use, Rosen said.
[06:59.430 --> 07:09.490]  They listen to a channel that has a limited rotation of only the most popular songs, commonly called top 40 stations, then hit the record button when they hear the opening strains of the song they want.
[07:09.790 --> 07:11.750]  And how much are they paying for these songs?
[07:12.030 --> 07:13.730]  A big fat zip.
[07:14.850 --> 07:21.390]  Uh, continued Rosen, according to our research, there is one of these top 40 stations in every major city in the country.
[07:21.630 --> 07:23.090]  It's probably one right here in New York.
[07:23.090 --> 07:27.690]  This has to be stopped because the music industry's entire economic infrastructure collapses.
[07:27.950 --> 07:29.310]  Before it collapses, that is.
[07:29.810 --> 07:39.910]  Especially distressing to the RIAA, radio stations all request hours when listeners call in to ask radio announcers, or as they're called, disc jockeys, to play a certain song.
[07:40.110 --> 07:47.870]  What's the point of putting out a new Ja Rule or Sum 41 album if people can just call up and hear any song off the album that they want?
[07:47.870 --> 07:48.530]  Frackman asked.
[07:48.690 --> 07:54.470]  In some instances, these stations actually have the nerve to let the caller dedicate his act of thievery to a friend or lover.
[07:54.730 --> 08:01.670]  Could you imagine a bank letting someone rob its vaults and then allowing the thief to thank his girlfriend, Trisha, and the whole gang down at Bumpy's?
[08:03.110 --> 08:09.830]  Defenders of radio-based music distribution insist that the relatively poor sound quality of radio broadcast negates the record company's charges.
[08:10.510 --> 08:22.470]  Radio doesn't have the same sound quality as a CD, said Paul Cubby Bryant, music director of New York radio station Z100, one of the nation's largest distributors of free music and a defendant in the suit, and our neighbors here on the FM dial.
[08:23.010 --> 08:24.930]  Real music lovers will still buy CDs.
[08:25.090 --> 08:27.890]  If anything, we're exposing people to music they might not otherwise hear.
[08:28.350 --> 08:30.630]  These record companies should be thanking us, not suing us.
[08:31.390 --> 08:35.110]  Outraged by the RAAA suit, many radio listeners are threatening to boycott the record companies.
[08:35.250 --> 08:43.610]  All these companies care about is profits, said Amy Legrand, 21, an avid Jacksonville, Florida radio user, who surreptitiously records up to 10 songs a day off the radio.
[08:43.610 --> 08:52.270]  So, Top 40 radio is taking the power out of the hands of the Ahmet Erdogans of the world and bringing it back to people of Clear Channel and Infinity Broadcasting.
[08:52.370 --> 08:55.370]  It's about time someone finally stood up to these record company fascists.
[08:57.450 --> 08:58.250]  Shocking story.
[08:58.750 --> 09:03.090]  It comes from a publication called The Onion, which many of you might be familiar with.
[09:04.450 --> 09:08.970]  I got maybe 40 emails today about this, saying I had to read this, and I did.
[09:09.370 --> 09:10.490]  It's quite good.
[09:10.630 --> 09:11.430]  It's quite good.
[09:11.490 --> 09:12.790]  I wonder how many people actually believe it.
[09:12.790 --> 09:18.190]  Well, I recognized it as parody as soon as we got to Bumpy's, because Bumpy's is just so passe.
[09:18.990 --> 09:19.410]  Is it?
[09:19.470 --> 09:20.410]  I don't even know what Bumpy's is.
[09:20.430 --> 09:21.130]  Oh, well.
[09:21.330 --> 09:22.290]  But I'll tell you something.
[09:22.290 --> 09:22.750]  We never hung out there.
[09:22.810 --> 09:30.210]  They talked to the music director at New York Station's E100, and if you listen to the guy's quote there, I have a feeling that guy didn't know it was all a joke.
[09:30.310 --> 09:33.230]  Because he's responding exactly the way you would expect him to respond.
[09:33.390 --> 09:34.170]  That may be...
[09:34.170 --> 09:35.090]  He should be thanking us, not suing us.
[09:35.130 --> 09:35.830]  It should be made up.
[09:35.950 --> 09:36.110]  It could be made up.
[09:36.110 --> 09:40.010]  I think he's the one guy who bought this, hook, line, and sinker, and believes that they're actually doing this.
[09:40.130 --> 09:40.630]  But, you know...
[09:40.630 --> 09:41.310]  Those are real quotes?
[09:41.430 --> 09:41.650]  Come on.
[09:41.650 --> 09:42.850]  I think that one is.
[09:43.270 --> 09:46.970]  Because I think that might be a real person, but maybe somebody at Z100 can fill us in on that.
[09:48.110 --> 09:51.570]  It's a serious thing, and the Onion always gets it.
[09:51.790 --> 10:04.230]  As far as the absurdity of what the RIAA and the MPAA are saying as far as people, quote-unquote, stealing their material, it's nonsense, and this is the point of absurdity that it's likely to reach.
[10:04.390 --> 10:08.550]  You should contact them and ask them their opinions on this in a serious manner.
[10:08.690 --> 10:10.530]  I don't think they have actual opinions.
[10:11.650 --> 10:12.750]  People at the Onion opinions?
[10:12.870 --> 10:13.450]  I don't think so.
[10:14.230 --> 10:16.870]  They must, because they issued this.
[10:17.430 --> 10:17.590]  Wow.
[10:18.010 --> 10:18.950]  There was a news story...
[10:18.950 --> 10:20.790]  If they told me their opinion, I assume they were kidding.
[10:20.990 --> 10:21.590]  You see, that's a thing.
[10:21.630 --> 10:22.470]  I could never take it seriously.
[10:22.670 --> 10:22.890]  Oh, okay.
[10:22.950 --> 10:23.290]  I see that.
[10:23.850 --> 10:31.870]  There was a news story in the Onion, I believe last week, the week before, about al-Qaeda telemarketers.
[10:32.590 --> 10:43.210]  This news story was picked up as fact by some sheriff's department and started to warn consumers about the dangers of telemarketers because you may be giving your money to al-Qaeda.
[10:43.970 --> 10:44.770]  Is it al-Qaeda?
[10:45.770 --> 10:46.250]  Whatever.
[10:46.410 --> 10:46.870]  Al-Qaeda?
[10:46.990 --> 10:47.410]  Al-Qaeda.
[10:47.730 --> 10:48.330]  The people...
[10:48.330 --> 10:48.690]  You know what?
[10:48.730 --> 10:49.870]  I think there's many of them.
[10:49.970 --> 10:51.550]  They all have slightly different names.
[10:51.890 --> 10:53.470]  Are they all the same organization?
[10:53.730 --> 10:54.170]  Al-Qaeda?
[10:54.430 --> 10:55.230]  You know, I don't know.
[10:55.310 --> 10:55.810]  That's the thing.
[10:55.890 --> 10:56.710]  They confuse us.
[10:56.710 --> 11:00.570]  Well, then, of course, there's Cornell University's front, Al-Qaeda.
[11:02.010 --> 11:11.630]  So, anyway, we're listening to the theme from BBC World, which we talk about quite a bit on this show.
[11:12.810 --> 11:16.510]  Somebody wrote in asking what happened to the BBC World stream.
[11:16.610 --> 11:20.410]  Just to give you a bit of background, and this also sort of is what the show is focused on tonight.
[11:21.250 --> 11:24.490]  BBC World is a 24-hour news station that is run by BBC.
[11:24.730 --> 11:25.970]  You can't get it in the United States.
[11:25.970 --> 11:31.190]  You can get little snippets of it occasionally when your local station decides to run half an hour of BBC News.
[11:31.930 --> 11:36.450]  But if you're in Canada or any other country in the world, actually, you can get this on a 24-hour basis.
[11:36.570 --> 11:44.590]  And those of you, like me, who have Canadian dishes, are able to just have it on in the background and feel somewhat informed and listen to this music when they're not talking.
[11:45.190 --> 11:46.270]  Yeah, they don't play commercials.
[11:46.390 --> 11:46.850]  It's kind of cool.
[11:47.790 --> 11:52.050]  Somebody asked what happened to the streaming because you used to be able to listen to it online or watch it online.
[11:53.690 --> 12:02.530]  As far as I know, if you go to bbcworld.com, there's something in the upper right-hand corner allowing you to actually watch it.
[12:02.590 --> 12:13.050]  But you have to have this new player by Real Media called Real One, which I'm afraid to install on my machine because I don't know if it's going to erase all the previous ones I have and make them not work properly.
[12:13.050 --> 12:15.950]  So they also are trying to charge for this.
[12:16.310 --> 12:20.750]  I'm not sure if the actual streaming from BBC World, there would be a fee for it.
[12:20.790 --> 12:27.210]  Maybe somebody out there can try that and let us know and we'll be happy to report the results.
[12:27.670 --> 12:30.210]  Now, why does BBC World play into the show?
[12:30.290 --> 12:33.530]  Well, there was a piece on BBC World over the past week.
[12:33.570 --> 12:36.430]  It's run a few times about computer hackers.
[12:36.970 --> 12:42.810]  And basically, it was about the Chaos Computer Club, a bunch of computer hackers located over there in Germany.
[12:44.050 --> 12:45.790]  They've taken over a building in Paris.
[12:46.110 --> 12:47.510]  Not in the bad sense.
[12:47.690 --> 12:50.250]  Not, you know, kicking people out and taking it over.
[12:50.370 --> 12:50.670]  No, they...
[12:50.670 --> 12:51.490]  Why is that bad?
[12:51.630 --> 12:54.890]  Well, I mean, you know, it's not nice to throw people out of their building and take it over.
[12:54.970 --> 12:55.310]  It depends on the people.
[12:55.310 --> 12:56.670]  It depends who the people are, I guess.
[12:56.770 --> 13:00.490]  But, you know, my point is they didn't go running in there like paratroopers taking over the thing.
[13:00.910 --> 13:08.810]  They were invited in and they converted the side of a building, just like they did in Berlin last year, to a graphical display.
[13:08.810 --> 13:15.930]  This one is better than the one that was in Berlin last year, because that one was just basically a light bulb on every single window that was either on or off.
[13:16.490 --> 13:19.810]  Now they have the ability to have, I think, seven or eight different shades.
[13:20.430 --> 13:24.170]  So you have some pretty good animation effects that are on there.
[13:24.170 --> 13:25.950]  And the whole city of Paris can see this.
[13:26.330 --> 13:27.530]  That's really, really cool.
[13:27.570 --> 13:30.210]  And you wonder why things like that can't happen here.
[13:31.250 --> 13:36.370]  Anyway, we are going to be speaking with, assuming we can get the phone system to work here.
[13:37.410 --> 13:43.070]  Well, the really cool thing was, though, that on this report, they kept referring to them as hackers.
[13:43.870 --> 13:47.330]  And there was nothing disparaging about the way they were talking about it.
[13:47.410 --> 13:56.250]  It was, the hackers did this, they made something look really cool, they used their imagination, they put it all together, and they repeated the story many, many times.
[13:56.290 --> 13:58.490]  In fact, it's in their highlights that they show every hour.
[13:59.710 --> 14:03.470]  And you'd never see a story like, first of all, you'd never see a building like this in this country, I don't think.
[14:03.670 --> 14:05.050]  Maybe we can change that.
[14:05.290 --> 14:15.290]  But you certainly wouldn't see a story about hackers that didn't have something to do with stealing credit cards or doing something really bad, that the media keeps drumming into us that that's what hacking is all about.
[14:15.390 --> 14:16.710]  Well, no, this is what hacking is all about.
[14:17.270 --> 14:23.250]  People who are online right now, who would like to see the building live, can go to a site called Blinkin' Lights.
[14:23.330 --> 14:30.530]  If I'm not mistaken, that's spelled B-L-I-N-K-E-N-L-I-G-H-T-S dot D-E.
[14:30.730 --> 14:35.210]  D-E, as in Deutschland, slash live, L-I-V-E.
[14:35.710 --> 14:41.070]  And let's see if we can make a call over to Paris.
[14:42.730 --> 14:45.890]  See if our phone system is capable of this.
[14:53.740 --> 14:56.700]  No doubt we're going to be asked to enter all kinds of accounting codes.
[14:57.060 --> 14:57.960]  I guess that's it.
[15:36.850 --> 15:38.390]  It is one in the morning over there.
[15:39.230 --> 15:39.470]  Hello.
[15:39.710 --> 15:41.070]  Ah, hi, is this Tim?
[15:41.470 --> 15:42.530]  Yes, this is Tim.
[15:42.650 --> 15:42.970]  Hi, Tim.
[15:43.470 --> 15:46.730]  It's Emanuel, yes, and you're live over WBAI in Europe.
[15:46.730 --> 15:47.970]  Yeah, greetings to everybody.
[15:48.310 --> 15:52.170]  So we just told the folks about the project you guys are working on.
[15:53.030 --> 15:54.970]  First of all, I want to make sure I got the website right.
[15:55.050 --> 15:57.470]  It was blinkin'lights.de slash live, right?
[15:58.310 --> 15:59.890]  No, it's slash arcade.
[16:00.810 --> 16:03.010]  Which is the name of our current project.
[16:03.270 --> 16:07.890]  So blinkin'lights is the name of the original installation, and the second installment is called arcade.
[16:08.190 --> 16:14.730]  So if you add slash arcade slash live, you get to the page with the stream links.
[16:15.610 --> 16:19.030]  Okay, so it's blinkin'lights.de slash arcade slash live?
[16:19.510 --> 16:19.930]  Right.
[16:19.930 --> 16:20.890]  Okay, got it.
[16:21.150 --> 16:22.370]  So tell us something about this project.
[16:22.570 --> 16:24.850]  How long did it take you to set something like this up?
[16:24.890 --> 16:25.510]  How did it come about?
[16:28.070 --> 16:31.690]  Well, I think you already said something about the installation last year.
[16:31.690 --> 16:44.370]  So, well, after this ran, somebody in Paris called us and asked us if we would be probably interested in doing a second installation here in Paris.
[16:44.610 --> 16:52.290]  They offered us the Bibliothèque Nationale de France, the French state library, and that was an offer we couldn't resist.
[16:53.030 --> 16:59.390]  So, well, we worked a couple of months now on this installation and switched it on last week.
[16:59.710 --> 17:02.290]  So what is involved in actually...
[17:02.290 --> 17:04.390]  Is the building in use, first of all, or is it vacant?
[17:05.110 --> 17:24.250]  Oh, no, it's in use, but the building is perfect for what we need because there's a straight space between the window and where everything begins, so all the offices, every floor has one meter spare between the window, and there's a sun shield before everything else starts,
[17:24.310 --> 17:35.970]  so we have the space where we can install our lamps, and we have put plastic-wide translucent sheets on the windows so we can create the pixel effect without disturbing anybody.
[17:36.130 --> 17:39.110]  So there are people actually in the rooms where the lights are going on and off?
[17:39.290 --> 17:48.210]  Yeah, well, usually they're not working at night, but they could be in the room with no problem, yeah, and we didn't have to put the lamps directly on the desks.
[17:48.870 --> 17:51.130]  Does this go at all during the daytime, or is it only at night?
[17:51.370 --> 17:52.250]  No, it's only at night.
[17:52.270 --> 17:54.610]  You wouldn't see anything during daytime.
[17:54.830 --> 17:55.050]  Right.
[17:55.470 --> 18:02.190]  Otherwise, we should have... must have used bright lights that would kill everybody.
[18:02.450 --> 18:07.270]  Now, you've got it hooked up in a way so people can actually participate on their mobile phones.
[18:07.330 --> 18:08.130]  How does that work?
[18:08.450 --> 18:09.010]  That's right.
[18:09.510 --> 18:19.310]  We have the ISDN telephone line set up here in the building, and our computer is connected to that, so people could just call a certain number.
[18:20.270 --> 18:24.130]  Actually, there are four numbers, and with the number you are selecting a certain game.
[18:24.310 --> 18:27.710]  So we have four games that are offered to be played on the building.
[18:27.930 --> 18:29.510]  One of them is, of course, Tetris.
[18:29.710 --> 18:33.810]  The other is Pong, and there's a Pac-Man as well, and the breakout game.
[18:34.650 --> 18:41.350]  So then you can just interactively play with your mobile phone just by hitting the buttons, controlling your paddle, everything.
[18:42.430 --> 18:45.410]  And how come there's not a Pong game up there all the time?
[18:47.250 --> 18:51.490]  Well, when nobody's playing, we just play back a certain playlist.
[18:53.790 --> 18:57.770]  So if somebody were to be playing that all the time, would it be Ponged, you know, the whole night?
[18:58.810 --> 18:59.890]  There's a timeout, of course.
[18:59.990 --> 19:00.790]  Okay, good, good.
[19:02.330 --> 19:05.930]  So, okay, that's... I remember seeing the Pong over in Berlin.
[19:05.930 --> 19:09.870]  That's when you only had the light bulbs on and off, and you had ASCII graphics and things like that.
[19:11.010 --> 19:15.270]  So, what other things have people been able to put on, now that you have this improved display?
[19:15.890 --> 19:21.830]  Well, the new installation allows for gray scaling, so we are actually dimming the light.
[19:23.030 --> 19:25.830]  This is the, well, the new thing.
[19:26.470 --> 19:30.970]  And so people can use these eight gray scales, and they actually do.
[19:31.190 --> 19:37.330]  So we get many things sent in that are making use of this, and it looks pretty cool.
[19:37.330 --> 19:49.490]  So we've got converted videos and interesting made, interestingly made animation that just make use of grayscale in a very intelligent way.
[19:49.750 --> 19:53.030]  How do people submit their contributions to this?
[19:53.410 --> 20:00.370]  Well, they can just, well, they, well, first we have a program called Arcata Paint, which is basically a director application.
[20:00.370 --> 20:06.550]  So it runs on Windows and the Mac, so you can interactively just paint, like with Photoshop, you can make your own movies.
[20:07.570 --> 20:14.090]  And then you can send them in using email.
[20:14.570 --> 20:17.670]  And this goes directly to us, and we have a look at the movies.
[20:17.730 --> 20:21.890]  And if it's nice, we just poke it, put it into the playlist.
[20:22.770 --> 20:23.370]  Wow.
[20:23.530 --> 20:23.910]  And how many...
[20:23.910 --> 20:37.910]  And we have also, well, most of the source code is actually GPL, and we've put it up on the web, and you can compile certain tools to convert GIF to our XML-based animation file format.
[20:38.950 --> 20:39.230]  Uh-huh.
[20:40.010 --> 20:43.870]  Now, how many different submissions have you received?
[20:44.450 --> 20:50.370]  I think so far we've got around 250 animations in our archive.
[20:50.930 --> 20:54.270]  Probably, well, like 80% of them are actually used.
[20:54.510 --> 20:54.770]  Uh-huh.
[20:55.010 --> 21:02.650]  And this is just playing in a huge loop, interrupted by, of course, the games being played.
[21:03.110 --> 21:05.990]  Now, is there a maximum length of the animations?
[21:07.830 --> 21:08.590]  Not really.
[21:08.710 --> 21:12.410]  Usually, they are not longer than a minute, most of them even less.
[21:13.470 --> 21:19.750]  There was one that was three minutes in length, which was basically a converted video, although it looked pretty nice.
[21:20.370 --> 21:22.950]  We are not setting it up, because it's just too boring.
[21:24.150 --> 21:25.710]  Usually, that's our experience.
[21:25.890 --> 21:30.870]  If you look at this, you want some change every 30 seconds that's the latest.
[21:31.330 --> 21:45.430]  Usually, the animations are much shorter, and with also some nice effects, so we can just switch over from one animation by the other by adding a flame effect and things like this.
[21:45.890 --> 21:46.110]  Uh-huh.
[21:46.230 --> 21:47.490]  Now, how far away can you see this?
[21:48.410 --> 21:50.050]  Oh, pretty far away.
[21:50.190 --> 21:55.650]  I've seen photos from today, making photos from, I don't know, five, six kilometers.
[21:56.070 --> 21:59.630]  So, if you are on a high building, you can see it pretty far.
[21:59.630 --> 22:07.610]  And for our listeners in Paris, who aren't listening to this in delay, can you see that from the main city, or do you have to be in a particular part of the town?
[22:08.310 --> 22:12.790]  Well, it's on the Bibliothèque Nationale de France, so you have to stand just inside, in front of it.
[22:14.350 --> 22:22.910]  It's, well, it's not really in the very heart of the city, but it's not in the suburbs as well, so it's pretty easy to get there by car or however.
[22:23.150 --> 22:25.590]  If you're a Parisian, you should know where it is anyway, so...
[22:25.590 --> 22:26.190]  Absolutely.
[22:26.490 --> 22:31.890]  It's a well-known building, and it's standing in the place where everybody really can see it, yeah.
[22:32.090 --> 22:42.190]  So, now, from when you got the phone call from the people in Paris saying, come do this, to when you actually were able to turn it on, how much effort and how much time had to be spent?
[22:42.190 --> 22:48.070]  I think we were here for the first time in July, when we first had a look at the building.
[22:48.570 --> 22:52.370]  We were inspecting everything, and then there was a second time we've been here.
[22:52.830 --> 23:03.530]  I think real work really started in August, and there was, well, a heated up phase the last two months.
[23:03.530 --> 23:15.330]  So, we were thinking about many aspects of all this since blinking lights, because, you know, when you do your first installation, you know all the bugs and the problems it brings with it.
[23:15.490 --> 23:27.450]  So, we knew when there will be the next thing, we were going to do this a bit different, and this a bit different, and I think we managed to do everything a bit better.
[23:27.450 --> 23:33.890]  So, everything is a bit more version 2 than before, especially the driving technology.
[23:34.230 --> 23:39.690]  First, we made it completely on our own, and this time we designed our own computer that's controlling the lamps.
[23:39.910 --> 23:48.090]  So, we have sort of a blinking light computer running a real-time variant of Linux, which is actually doing the dimming of the lamps.
[23:49.630 --> 23:54.110]  Effectively, all this software is running on Linux, all the control software is running on Linux.
[23:54.290 --> 23:56.430]  How many people actually were involved in the whole project?
[23:56.430 --> 24:11.850]  The project is around 15 people, like 6, 7 doing programming, 3, 4 doing mostly hardware, setup work, many helpers as well, and some of them are more focusing on animation.
[24:11.850 --> 24:15.390]  So, it's a mix of different talents.
[24:15.730 --> 24:17.230]  And there's no advertising, right?
[24:18.610 --> 24:20.310]  There's no real advertising.
[24:20.310 --> 24:22.230]  There is a mentioning of the sponsor.
[24:22.790 --> 24:23.150]  Okay.
[24:24.190 --> 24:24.610]  Wow.
[24:24.770 --> 24:33.690]  Well, for those people in the States that would like to try something like this, or maybe you guys could come over here and somehow do that here, what would it take?
[24:34.110 --> 24:38.230]  I mean, I can't imagine that happening in New York, but, you know, why not?
[24:39.830 --> 24:40.530]  Why not what?
[24:40.850 --> 24:42.430]  Why can't this happen in the States?
[24:42.470 --> 24:44.950]  I mean, there must be a reason why we haven't done something like this.
[24:44.950 --> 24:47.930]  Yeah, I don't know why nobody in the States has done it.
[24:49.070 --> 24:54.550]  For us, it's a bit problematic to come to the US because we fear to be arrested immediately.
[24:55.750 --> 24:56.810]  That's the main problem.
[24:56.990 --> 24:58.310]  Just because of who you are, yeah.
[25:00.990 --> 25:03.950]  So, we are focusing more on Europe right now.
[25:04.130 --> 25:04.370]  Uh-huh.
[25:04.750 --> 25:07.070]  And are there any possibilities for future cities?
[25:08.370 --> 25:08.850]  Maybe.
[25:09.130 --> 25:24.590]  I mean, many people are writing us emails and talking about this and that, but, in the end, it takes a lot to set something like this up because you need a building that is somehow accessible, that has the... well, it looks nice, that is more or less metrics-based.
[25:25.730 --> 25:34.070]  And, well, usually big bureau buildings are not that appropriate because there are too many parties living in it, so you can just move in in every office every day.
[25:34.310 --> 25:44.070]  It's already a problem here with the administration, all the bureaucracy involved in this state-run building, but if there are more than one party, it really gets complicated.
[25:44.370 --> 25:57.350]  But it's an empty building that's probably under construction or something like this, or just being built new and, like, the months before everything is being prepared for rent, then it's possible.
[25:57.630 --> 25:58.670]  You know what building would be perfect?
[25:58.810 --> 25:59.950]  The United Nations building.
[26:00.210 --> 26:00.890]  Wouldn't that work?
[26:01.910 --> 26:04.550]  Yeah, but first we have to kick all the guys.
[26:04.730 --> 26:06.150]  Come on, guys, let's do it.
[26:06.190 --> 26:10.770]  Let's just go over there and say, hey, come on, we're just going to play with your lights a little bit, that's all.
[26:10.970 --> 26:13.310]  Yeah, we're making really use of this building now.
[26:15.030 --> 26:20.470]  Well, that's my new project is to try and get something like that going in New York, because I think it would be really cool.
[26:20.790 --> 26:21.050]  Okay.
[26:21.050 --> 26:22.310]  What's on the display right now?
[26:22.330 --> 26:22.810]  Can you tell us?
[26:23.410 --> 26:28.170]  Yeah, actually, we're running now advertising, and it's advertising for your show, man.
[26:28.390 --> 26:28.870]  You're kidding.
[26:29.050 --> 26:29.630]  Our show is...
[26:29.630 --> 26:33.430]  Yeah, we must have a look at the playlist now.
[26:33.550 --> 26:35.950]  Wow, so describe it for me since I don't have a connection here.
[26:35.950 --> 26:41.810]  Yeah, it's basically 2,600 running up and down, and you are listening to Off The Hook.
[26:41.950 --> 26:43.210]  Oh, my God, in Paris.
[26:43.210 --> 26:44.190]  Wow, that's so cool.
[26:44.310 --> 26:51.050]  And your nice big brother is also on display exactly at this moment, so you can see it in 30 seconds on the screen.
[26:52.830 --> 26:53.870]  That's unbelievable.
[26:55.770 --> 27:03.450]  Yeah, and if somebody would like to take up on the software we've done, the software is on the net, and everybody can contribute.
[27:03.750 --> 27:08.630]  So people can contribute during the show now, and can they maybe have their displays displayed tonight?
[27:09.190 --> 27:11.090]  Well, they're sending in animations.
[27:11.090 --> 27:13.490]  We are probably able to put it into the playlist.
[27:13.490 --> 27:21.150]  Yeah, there's some work around, like, receiving the email, saving it, checking it, having a look at it, putting it into the playlist.
[27:21.610 --> 27:23.190]  But generally, yes.
[27:23.830 --> 27:24.310]  Okay.
[27:24.310 --> 27:26.590]  But I'm more talking about the source code project itself.
[27:27.270 --> 27:33.290]  I mean, we're having it under GPL, and we want to make it the OS for blinking buildings.
[27:33.290 --> 27:33.850]  Mm-hmm.
[27:34.010 --> 27:36.570]  Now you have to download the software in order to be able to submit something, right?
[27:37.070 --> 27:37.390]  Yeah, sure.
[27:37.950 --> 27:39.870]  Okay, and that's all on that same site as well.
[27:40.110 --> 27:40.370]  Yeah.
[27:40.790 --> 27:47.770]  So who's technically inclined enough can directly program something that's creating the animation.
[27:47.770 --> 27:52.690]  So our animation file format is XML-based, so this is pretty easy to do.
[27:53.030 --> 27:58.770]  And if people are more used to using mouses, we have the point-and-click interface as well.
[27:59.150 --> 27:59.410]  Mm-hmm.
[28:00.150 --> 28:00.410]  Cool.
[28:00.970 --> 28:01.570]  Jim, you had a question?
[28:01.570 --> 28:11.610]  I was wondering if we could get a photo of the building with our mention on it, or a capture from the live streaming video.
[28:11.910 --> 28:15.210]  You will get your big brother as soon as possible.
[28:15.370 --> 28:16.610]  We are already working on this.
[28:17.150 --> 28:17.970]  Thank you very much.
[28:18.190 --> 28:18.970]  It's in the works.
[28:19.330 --> 28:19.430]  Absolutely.
[28:19.550 --> 28:20.010]  Yeah, yeah.
[28:20.210 --> 28:22.490]  And other photos are already on the website.
[28:22.970 --> 28:26.210]  Now, Tim, you're based in Germany originally, right?
[28:26.470 --> 28:26.690]  Yes.
[28:26.950 --> 28:28.550]  And you're part of the Chaos Computer Club.
[28:28.670 --> 28:30.130]  Are they involved in any other projects?
[28:30.130 --> 28:31.910]  I know the Congress is coming up later this year.
[28:32.110 --> 28:33.550]  Is anything else happening?
[28:33.930 --> 28:34.370]  Yes.
[28:34.610 --> 28:41.510]  Like every year, the Chaos Communication Congress is about to take place from the 27th to the 29th of December.
[28:42.110 --> 28:43.910]  Which means it's always on a different day.
[28:44.390 --> 28:48.250]  It's always on a different weekday, but always at the same date.
[28:48.630 --> 28:48.830]  Uh-huh.
[28:49.010 --> 28:50.590]  Well, isn't it sometimes on a weekend as well?
[28:50.590 --> 28:52.050]  Yes, sometimes weekends.
[28:52.050 --> 28:52.090]  Right.
[28:52.270 --> 28:55.770]  But always between Christmas and New Year's Eve, so it's basically the same.
[28:56.210 --> 28:56.530]  Right.
[28:57.630 --> 28:58.590]  But, yeah.
[28:59.190 --> 29:00.230]  And same place.
[29:00.410 --> 29:00.970]  Same place, right?
[29:01.170 --> 29:01.390]  Same place.
[29:01.410 --> 29:04.230]  Former Communist Party headquarters in East Berlin or whatever.
[29:05.090 --> 29:06.130]  Yes, in East Berlin, right.
[29:06.750 --> 29:07.230]  Wow.
[29:07.450 --> 29:08.350]  So anything else?
[29:08.350 --> 29:10.910]  I know there's talk of a camp next year.
[29:12.490 --> 29:13.490]  I've heard of it.
[29:13.950 --> 29:14.430]  Yeah.
[29:14.630 --> 29:15.390]  I've heard of it.
[29:15.590 --> 29:15.930]  Yeah.
[29:15.930 --> 29:17.070]  We are thinking about this.
[29:17.950 --> 29:25.010]  Nothing is decided yet, but we know that the next year is the slot that is the appropriate time.
[29:25.230 --> 29:25.510]  Yeah.
[29:25.650 --> 29:26.570]  Well, let's hope that works out.
[29:26.670 --> 29:26.890]  Yeah.
[29:26.890 --> 29:31.250]  Check out our website and I think you will know when it's done.
[29:31.390 --> 29:35.230]  Which is ccc.de, which is a great site right there.
[29:36.350 --> 29:38.410]  Tim, do you want to stick around and take some phone calls?
[29:38.990 --> 29:39.390]  Mm-hmm.
[29:39.390 --> 29:43.390]  I know it's one o'clock in the morning over there, but do you want to stick around for a few more minutes?
[29:43.650 --> 29:44.250]  Yes, sure.
[29:44.410 --> 29:44.650]  Okay.
[29:44.730 --> 29:45.930]  Well, we're going to take some phone calls then.
[29:46.510 --> 29:49.310]  And we're talking to Tim from the Karis Computer Club.
[29:50.410 --> 29:52.390]  Are you the head of this project?
[29:53.770 --> 29:55.950]  Well, I would call it the project coordinator.
[29:56.010 --> 29:57.910]  So we are all heads here.
[29:58.230 --> 29:58.570]  Okay.
[29:59.190 --> 29:59.750]  That's good.
[30:00.290 --> 30:11.650]  And right now you're pretty much coordinating the display on this building in Paris that shows all kinds of animation and displays and games of Pong and Tetris and all kinds of other fun things like that.
[30:12.090 --> 30:14.590]  And what kind of response have you gotten from the people of Paris?
[30:15.670 --> 30:24.610]  Well, I guess I'm too much here in this 18th floor, so I haven't really talked to that many people, but the response is coming in.
[30:24.730 --> 30:31.070]  We get tons of emails and people really get excited about it.
[30:32.210 --> 30:35.810]  Actually, we are preparing for the last night, which is this weekend, on Saturday.
[30:36.090 --> 30:42.470]  There will be a party going on and, well, we are preparing our last hack here.
[30:42.630 --> 30:48.430]  We are going to couple the music and setting up a huge frequency display on the screen.
[30:48.430 --> 30:57.050]  So we are having a live visualization of the music and probably even the VJ mixing live on the screen as well.
[30:58.010 --> 30:58.490]  Cool.
[30:59.030 --> 31:01.890]  And you have the building until this weekend coming up?
[31:01.910 --> 31:02.430]  This weekend, yeah.
[31:02.710 --> 31:05.590]  So it will be the last night on Saturday to Sunday.
[31:06.110 --> 31:09.530]  Alright, so people who want to submit their animations had better hurry.
[31:10.330 --> 31:25.610]  Again, the site is BlinkinLights, B-L-I-N-K-E-N-L-I-G-H-T-S dot D-E slash arcade slash live to see what's on live and the slash arcade to see all the other options and download the software and that kind of thing.
[31:25.610 --> 31:26.110]  Yep.
[31:26.510 --> 31:32.550]  Okay, if anyone wants to call in, 212-209-2900 is our phone number, country code one.
[31:32.550 --> 31:44.330]  We had quite a lot of mail from people who had suggestions and ideas as to why we're being expected to dial an extra one even when we have to dial the area code.
[31:44.690 --> 31:46.110]  Maybe we'll get to that a little bit.
[31:46.210 --> 31:48.090]  Let's see if we can take some phone calls first.
[31:48.790 --> 31:49.970]  Good evening, you're on the air.
[31:50.650 --> 31:51.390]  Thank you.
[31:51.570 --> 31:58.570]  I'm trying to understand what you're describing because I think you have an easy access to being able to do it.
[31:58.650 --> 32:07.330]  Is this something like the NanogenPake installations where you have a bunch of screens, windows instead of screens, and there's a separate screen showing an animation like a cell?
[32:07.950 --> 32:09.270]  Is that the idea of it?
[32:09.330 --> 32:11.010]  Like the facade of the building is a...
[32:11.010 --> 32:13.250]  Well, the whole building is the display.
[32:14.150 --> 32:15.130]  The whole building is what?
[32:15.710 --> 32:16.790]  It's the display.
[32:17.210 --> 32:18.250]  Imagine the...
[32:18.250 --> 32:20.150]  I think the United Nations building is a good example.
[32:20.250 --> 32:24.650]  Just imagine the front of that building just having a display of animation.
[32:24.650 --> 32:25.390]  Right, right.
[32:25.390 --> 32:26.070]  That's what it is.
[32:26.350 --> 32:26.630]  Yeah.
[32:27.210 --> 32:32.410]  I'm reminded of something in one of the biennial exhibits with NanogenPake, but it was not a building.
[32:32.650 --> 32:46.350]  Our very own building owner of Silverstein Properties, you know, he is the person that his company is known for doing quirky things.
[32:48.150 --> 32:53.510]  One floor of a building will be a raceway of lights, or you know, that one on Water Street where there's a...
[32:53.510 --> 32:56.510]  It looks like a calendar, but it's the elevator floors going up and down.
[32:56.730 --> 32:57.090]  Uh-huh.
[32:57.250 --> 32:58.290]  Are you familiar with the one I'm talking about?
[32:58.450 --> 33:02.090]  Well, I'm just familiar with the name as far as, you know, rent complaints and things like that.
[33:02.350 --> 33:04.510]  No, you'd have to see his whole other side.
[33:04.690 --> 33:05.730]  It's quite interesting.
[33:06.110 --> 33:08.730]  I mean, it is a non-profit building.
[33:09.390 --> 33:24.570]  He has about 10 or 12 buildings, and every one of them has an unusual, you know, artistic contribution done somehow very conservatively expressed in the facade or within the building.
[33:24.730 --> 33:36.610]  But you can see when you're going over the Brooklyn Bridge, for example, one of them is the whole floor, midway up the building, something like the 40th floor, is where the HVAC plant is of the building.
[33:36.770 --> 33:43.150]  And there is all different lights like racing around and sort of looks like a Rube Goldberg type effect.
[33:43.390 --> 33:44.150]  Well, that's one floor.
[33:44.150 --> 33:46.930]  If we can get another 39 floors involved in that.
[33:47.410 --> 33:51.070]  Well, it's really the whole building is affected by it.
[33:51.150 --> 33:53.210]  But this guy has...
[33:54.410 --> 33:55.510]  I'll work with you on it.
[33:56.630 --> 33:57.470]  I'll work with you on it.
[33:57.550 --> 34:01.410]  And Rem Koolhaas, a Dutch architect, is doing something similar.
[34:02.870 --> 34:07.910]  So let me stay in touch with you on it because our very own landlord might very well be the guy.
[34:08.070 --> 34:08.390]  Okay.
[34:08.530 --> 34:09.710]  Well, hopefully that'll work out.
[34:09.710 --> 34:10.070]  Thanks.
[34:11.010 --> 34:13.770]  But let me just express my skepticism right at the outset.
[34:14.670 --> 34:15.250]  We'll see.
[34:15.730 --> 34:17.170]  212-209-2900.
[34:17.430 --> 34:18.190]  And good evening.
[34:18.270 --> 34:18.730]  You're on the air.
[34:19.490 --> 34:19.890]  Bonjour.
[34:20.490 --> 34:20.870]  Are you?
[34:21.150 --> 34:21.710]  Oh no.
[34:22.470 --> 34:22.870]  Okay.
[34:22.930 --> 34:23.750]  Let's make this fast, Rebel.
[34:23.750 --> 34:24.090]  Okay.
[34:25.310 --> 34:30.970]  Your design, your idea with the building, with the design reminds me of sort of advertising.
[34:31.270 --> 34:39.370]  I know you don't have advertisements, but I know that there are advertisements on floors and bus terminals that are not like lights or anything.
[34:39.470 --> 34:40.730]  It's just like, you know, lights.
[34:40.730 --> 34:42.790]  I mean, not like floor and bus.
[34:42.910 --> 34:44.390]  And then there's audio advertising.
[34:44.570 --> 34:47.950]  You're talking about the advertising that comes out of windows and hits the sidewalk?
[34:47.990 --> 34:48.750]  Is that what you're talking about?
[34:48.810 --> 34:49.050]  No, no.
[34:49.150 --> 34:49.790]  It's not that.
[34:49.970 --> 34:54.630]  Well, there's that, but then there's advertisements when you walk into places like a bus station or train station.
[34:54.870 --> 34:56.330]  There's advertisements on the floor.
[34:56.470 --> 34:59.350]  There's like a little billboard on the floor that you walk on.
[34:59.350 --> 35:00.770]  Yeah, that's why they invented spray paint.
[35:01.050 --> 35:01.850]  But never mind.
[35:01.990 --> 35:02.610]  Well, that's true.
[35:02.770 --> 35:06.110]  Also, they have advertisements for audio ads in the supermarket.
[35:06.310 --> 35:08.830]  Like they'll, you know, they'll be like an audio ad.
[35:08.850 --> 35:10.130]  Are you just trying to depress us tonight?
[35:10.390 --> 35:11.210]  Say something positive.
[35:11.430 --> 35:15.850]  You know, and then there's these squeaks that say, lose weight and win a vacation.
[35:16.370 --> 35:17.530]  Alright, that's about enough of that.
[35:17.610 --> 35:24.610]  There's also word of mouth ads where somebody incessantly repeats the same thing day after day, week after week.
[35:25.250 --> 35:25.670]  For ten years, yeah.
[35:25.670 --> 35:26.530]  Good evening, you're on the air.
[35:28.170 --> 35:28.570]  Hello.
[35:28.570 --> 35:28.910]  Speak up, please.
[35:29.070 --> 35:29.350]  Go ahead.
[35:29.910 --> 35:30.090]  Hello.
[35:30.290 --> 35:30.810]  How are you?
[35:30.810 --> 35:34.150]  I came at the end of the conversation and you gave out a web address.
[35:34.430 --> 35:35.590]  Could you give that address again?
[35:35.690 --> 35:35.970]  Certainly.
[35:36.170 --> 35:48.190]  It's BlinkenLights, B-L-I-N-K-E-N-L-I-G-H-T-S dot D-E, as in Deutschland, slash arcade.
[35:48.690 --> 35:51.630]  And if you want to see the live picture, put a slash live at the end of that.
[35:52.270 --> 35:53.030]  Slash arcade.
[35:53.330 --> 35:53.570]  Yeah.
[35:53.750 --> 35:54.850]  And that'll show you the building.
[35:54.850 --> 35:59.960]  That'll show you what the folks over at Chaos Computer Club are up to and what's happening right now live in Paris.
[36:00.790 --> 36:01.530]  Thank you very much.
[36:01.970 --> 36:02.290]  Okay.
[36:02.390 --> 36:02.870]  Thanks for calling.
[36:03.190 --> 36:03.470]  Bye now.
[36:04.270 --> 36:04.750]  All right.
[36:04.830 --> 36:06.150]  Let's see who else is out there.
[36:06.450 --> 36:06.750]  Good evening.
[36:06.810 --> 36:07.190]  You're on the air.
[36:09.050 --> 36:09.610]  Speak up.
[36:10.110 --> 36:10.490]  Hello.
[36:10.490 --> 36:10.570]  Hello.
[36:10.710 --> 36:11.130]  Yes, go ahead.
[36:11.390 --> 36:11.710]  Hi.
[36:11.870 --> 36:12.650]  This is amazing.
[36:13.210 --> 36:13.650]  Isn't it?
[36:13.930 --> 36:14.630]  I'm watching it live.
[36:14.730 --> 36:15.470]  You can't see it now?
[36:15.650 --> 36:16.070]  Well, no.
[36:16.130 --> 36:17.850]  I'm in the studio, so I can't see anything.
[36:18.330 --> 36:18.410]  Oh.
[36:18.590 --> 36:19.930]  This is off the hook.
[36:20.290 --> 36:20.910]  Before it was a man's face.
[36:21.030 --> 36:22.070]  Before it was a woman dancing.
[36:22.450 --> 36:23.430]  A bird flying.
[36:25.310 --> 36:25.830]  Incredible.
[36:26.230 --> 36:28.730]  What I want to know is, what kind of lights are these?
[36:28.870 --> 36:31.290]  Are they fluorescent lights or special lights or...?
[36:31.290 --> 36:33.050]  Just ordinary flood lights.
[36:33.590 --> 36:37.210]  Like 150 watts and we use two of them for each window.
[36:38.590 --> 36:40.310]  Okay, so it's like two pixels per window.
[36:40.310 --> 36:41.690]  It's two...
[36:41.690 --> 36:49.910]  No, well, one window is one pixel, but we use two lamps for one window because it's a very high, very tall window.
[36:50.130 --> 36:53.030]  It's like 360 meters high, 180 in width.
[36:53.910 --> 36:55.630]  Okay, so it's one pixel per window.
[36:56.190 --> 36:56.590]  Pardon?
[36:56.810 --> 36:58.570]  So that would be one pixel per window.
[36:58.890 --> 36:59.410]  Yeah.
[36:59.870 --> 37:03.930]  We turned one window into one pixel because we just take up on what's already there.
[37:03.930 --> 37:10.650]  So we have 520 pixels, 20 lines and 26 columns.
[37:11.430 --> 37:11.710]  Amazing.
[37:12.510 --> 37:15.690]  And so you just tap into the building's automation system already.
[37:15.690 --> 37:16.810]  You don't add anything to it.
[37:17.490 --> 37:17.950]  Pardon?
[37:18.650 --> 37:21.510]  You're using the building's own automation system for the light.
[37:21.510 --> 37:22.490]  No, absolutely not.
[37:22.490 --> 37:24.270]  We didn't use anything of the building.
[37:24.470 --> 37:36.830]  The only infrastructure we used was the internal spare glass fiber network cables and CAD5 network cables to set up our own internal network, which is completely separate from anything that's running in here.
[37:37.010 --> 37:39.190]  And we have installed the lamps.
[37:39.470 --> 37:41.610]  We have attached control cables to these lamps.
[37:41.890 --> 37:46.190]  All the control cables in each floor run together to a single control computer.
[37:46.350 --> 37:51.910]  And these control computers are all interconnected with a simple network, a simple even network.
[37:51.950 --> 38:05.310]  And there's a single computer here on the 18th floor that's permanently sending out frames, the pictures, the animations, and each control computer just picks up the line that is his job to display.
[38:06.470 --> 38:07.870]  Well, I can say it's amazing.
[38:08.150 --> 38:08.250]  Yeah.
[38:08.410 --> 38:13.430]  You'll find a pretty accurate description on our website.
[38:13.750 --> 38:14.850]  Okay, I will look at that.
[38:15.170 --> 38:23.970]  Yeah, and for the Linux guys, there's a very cool article on linuxdevices.com on the project, very technical, very correct, very cool, with pictures.
[38:24.390 --> 38:25.270]  Okay, thanks for your call.
[38:25.450 --> 38:25.670]  Thank you very much.
[38:25.670 --> 38:30.250]  And for our North American listeners who don't know metric, just a quick conversion.
[38:30.410 --> 38:33.790]  The windows are roughly 12 feet tall by 6 feet wide.
[38:34.430 --> 38:35.130]  Thank you.
[38:35.390 --> 38:36.830]  And how many stories are there again?
[38:37.490 --> 38:37.930]  20.
[38:38.170 --> 38:38.770]  20 stories.
[38:39.450 --> 38:39.730]  Mm-hmm.
[38:39.810 --> 38:40.290]  That's great.
[38:40.590 --> 38:41.170]  It's pretty high.
[38:41.690 --> 38:41.910]  Wow.
[38:42.010 --> 38:44.830]  212-209-2900 is our phone number.
[38:44.970 --> 38:46.510]  We're speaking with Tim from the Chaos Computer Club.
[38:46.670 --> 38:48.150]  Tim, are you actually in the building yourself?
[38:48.490 --> 38:49.070]  Yes, I am.
[38:49.170 --> 38:49.430]  You are.
[38:49.530 --> 38:50.770]  You're up on what floor?
[38:51.550 --> 38:51.990]  18.
[38:52.290 --> 38:52.450]  Uh-huh.
[38:52.450 --> 38:54.370]  So it's the third line from the top.
[38:54.370 --> 38:56.650]  Okay, so you actually have a little light in your room.
[38:57.390 --> 38:58.330]  Um, yes.
[38:58.550 --> 39:02.050]  But the sun sheet is still in between, so you can see me.
[39:02.690 --> 39:04.130]  If you'd like, I can wave.
[39:04.490 --> 39:04.910]  Yeah, please.
[39:05.110 --> 39:06.810]  There might be a shadow for you.
[39:07.110 --> 39:10.630]  I doubt the telephone cable is long enough to stay on my phone.
[39:11.950 --> 39:13.970]  All right, well, let's take another phone call from a listener.
[39:14.630 --> 39:15.290]  And good evening.
[39:15.350 --> 39:15.770]  You're on the air.
[39:17.470 --> 39:18.050]  Speak up.
[39:18.490 --> 39:19.210]  Emmanuel, hey.
[39:19.430 --> 39:19.770]  How you doing?
[39:20.250 --> 39:24.330]  I just wanted to call and say that this blinking lights thing is really cool.
[39:24.690 --> 39:27.290]  And I just want to say I just got freedom downtime in the mail.
[39:27.850 --> 39:28.350]  Oh, cool.
[39:28.350 --> 39:30.410]  And I thought it was really awesome.
[39:30.630 --> 39:31.030]  Well, thanks.
[39:31.310 --> 39:32.090]  Really, really great.
[39:32.670 --> 39:33.570]  Really great movie.
[39:33.790 --> 39:35.630]  Me and my mom watched it.
[39:35.670 --> 39:36.370]  She thought it was awesome.
[39:36.510 --> 39:37.770]  She doesn't know anything about hacking.
[39:38.190 --> 39:39.910]  She doesn't know anything about Kevin Mitnick.
[39:40.210 --> 39:42.770]  I mean, showed it to all my friends at TSP.
[39:43.030 --> 39:45.070]  We went up to New York and I brought it along.
[39:45.070 --> 39:45.510]  Uh-huh.
[39:45.710 --> 39:46.430]  We all liked it.
[39:46.830 --> 39:49.170]  And I just want to say, man, you guys are awesome.
[39:49.250 --> 39:58.430]  Well, you see, that's the best compliment we can get if somebody who is completely not into the scene at all can see the film and hear what we're saying and understand it and be interested by it, then we've succeeded.
[39:58.730 --> 39:59.050]  Yeah.
[39:59.510 --> 40:00.670]  I can tell you this, man.
[40:00.790 --> 40:02.790]  I mean, I watched it with my mom.
[40:02.870 --> 40:03.590]  She thought it was awesome.
[40:03.690 --> 40:05.930]  She didn't know, like, who Kevin Mitnick was.
[40:06.090 --> 40:12.150]  And, you know, I just, I mean, I try to make it up for some of the New York 2600 meetings, but, you know, I kind of lack a car now.
[40:12.450 --> 40:12.570]  Yeah.
[40:13.290 --> 40:13.650]  Yeah.
[40:13.650 --> 40:14.810]  Keep up the good work, Emmanuel.
[40:14.950 --> 40:15.070]  All right?
[40:15.070 --> 40:15.290]  Okay.
[40:15.470 --> 40:15.730]  Thanks.
[40:15.850 --> 40:16.090]  Take care.
[40:16.270 --> 40:16.370]  All right, guys.
[40:16.450 --> 40:16.610]  Later.
[40:17.730 --> 40:18.050]  Yeah.
[40:18.310 --> 40:21.730]  And Kevin Mitnick will be here live in our studio in two weeks.
[40:22.010 --> 40:25.330]  I'm glad this person reminded me to say that for our special fundraiser.
[40:25.390 --> 40:29.490]  We're going to be fundraising next week, too, but in two weeks, Kevin will be here.
[40:29.650 --> 40:31.230]  And he'll have copies of his book.
[40:31.390 --> 40:31.950]  Yes, that's right.
[40:31.990 --> 40:33.390]  His new book, which will be out by then.
[40:34.290 --> 40:38.510]  Tim, what kind of media coverage have you gotten for the Paris Blinking Lights project?
[40:39.190 --> 40:41.790]  Well, it's just picking up right now.
[40:41.790 --> 40:47.090]  So, well, there was a very, very good TV report on BBC World just recently.
[40:47.270 --> 40:50.770]  Yes, which nobody in this country probably saw unless they were watching maybe a PBS station.
[40:50.890 --> 40:52.550]  Yeah, but that's why we have internet.
[40:52.650 --> 40:57.130]  And you can actually grab a copy from our press site on Blinking Lights.
[40:57.130 --> 41:00.590]  So, BlinkLight.de slash press will reveal this movie to you.
[41:00.730 --> 41:00.950]  Cool.
[41:01.430 --> 41:02.010]  Pretty nice.
[41:02.330 --> 41:03.070]  Anything else?
[41:04.050 --> 41:06.370]  Well, things are in the works.
[41:06.550 --> 41:12.470]  There will be documentation on RT, which is the French-German culture channel here in Europe.
[41:12.470 --> 41:16.430]  You probably don't know it, but it's probably the best TV station there is.
[41:16.430 --> 41:16.450]  Yes.
[41:16.710 --> 41:22.530]  And I know many camera teams are running around here, so they're going to air it this week.
[41:22.810 --> 41:25.850]  I hate to ask, but any American media people?
[41:26.670 --> 41:34.690]  So far, I think only IDG Communications was here having an interview, and that's all.
[41:34.690 --> 41:35.530]  And off the hook.
[41:35.710 --> 41:36.430]  Yeah, us too, of course.
[41:36.430 --> 41:37.630]  And off the hook, of course.
[41:37.950 --> 41:38.830]  But we're not video.
[41:39.010 --> 41:39.290]  Not yet.
[41:39.390 --> 41:41.550]  I want a copy of this show.
[41:41.730 --> 41:41.930]  Yes.
[41:42.050 --> 41:47.570]  Well, there will be one online later tonight, thanks to Jones and all the encoder people out there.
[41:48.910 --> 41:49.310]  All right.
[41:49.350 --> 41:50.050]  Let's take another phone call.
[41:50.170 --> 41:52.070]  Phone lines are pretty solid here.
[41:52.250 --> 41:52.910]  Let's go over here.
[41:52.970 --> 41:53.190]  Good evening.
[41:53.270 --> 41:53.710]  You're on the air.
[41:54.350 --> 41:54.550]  Yes.
[41:54.550 --> 41:56.430]  How would one get involved with 2600?
[41:56.710 --> 41:57.550]  With 2600?
[41:57.950 --> 41:58.190]  Yes.
[41:58.550 --> 41:59.450]  Involved in what way?
[41:59.870 --> 42:01.050]  There's a meeting this Friday.
[42:01.590 --> 42:03.170]  In fact, there's meetings all over the world.
[42:03.330 --> 42:03.630]  Oh, that's right.
[42:03.630 --> 42:05.630]  You could just show up at that and talk to some people.
[42:05.870 --> 42:08.910]  But that's not necessarily getting involved in the magazine part.
[42:08.930 --> 42:11.010]  If you want to write articles, then you send us articles.
[42:11.010 --> 42:15.210]  If you want to contribute in other ways, basically, you know, tell us what you want to do.
[42:16.610 --> 42:18.410]  I'm not exactly sure.
[42:18.410 --> 42:21.310]  I wanted to see what was available.
[42:21.750 --> 42:21.990]  Mm-hmm.
[42:22.470 --> 42:25.250]  Well, it's not like, you know, a corporate type of thing where there are things available.
[42:26.090 --> 42:28.010]  It's like what these guys from Germany are doing.
[42:28.150 --> 42:31.670]  They decided to do this because they were able to.
[42:31.770 --> 42:32.590]  They have imaginations.
[42:32.990 --> 42:35.730]  And I think that's basically something that's always available.
[42:36.370 --> 42:40.570]  The 2600, as far as I know, the little that I know, they're doing a lot of wonderful things.
[42:40.930 --> 42:41.610]  Well, we try.
[42:42.650 --> 42:43.710]  We try, but...
[42:43.710 --> 42:44.270]  Where is the meeting?
[42:44.790 --> 42:45.630]  Well, where are you?
[42:45.810 --> 42:46.890]  What part of the world?
[42:47.090 --> 42:48.470]  I'm in Brooklyn.
[42:48.830 --> 42:51.810]  Okay, so you would go to the New York meeting, which is at the Citigroup building.
[42:51.810 --> 42:53.450]  That's the building with the slopey roof.
[42:53.790 --> 42:57.190]  And that's on 53rd Street between 3rd and Lexington Avenue.
[42:57.610 --> 42:57.930]  Cool.
[42:58.470 --> 43:01.370]  And that's on Friday, Friday between 5 and 8 p.m.
[43:01.430 --> 43:02.990]  this Friday, right in the lobby area.
[43:03.290 --> 43:08.810]  And for people who are in other parts of the world, we have meetings all throughout the world, excuse me, the first Friday of every month.
[43:08.970 --> 43:14.410]  And just go to our website, www.2600.com slash meetings, and you can find out all about that.
[43:14.410 --> 43:15.050]  Great.
[43:15.230 --> 43:15.830]  Thank you so much.
[43:15.970 --> 43:16.090]  Sure.
[43:16.250 --> 43:16.370]  Bye.
[43:17.150 --> 43:19.290]  212-209-2900 is our phone number.
[43:19.510 --> 43:19.790]  Good evening.
[43:19.910 --> 43:20.290]  You're on the air.
[43:20.770 --> 43:21.530]  This is Astro.
[43:21.630 --> 43:22.170]  I'm Chelsea.
[43:22.370 --> 43:22.850]  How are you doing?
[43:23.130 --> 43:23.570]  Hey, how are you doing?
[43:23.890 --> 43:26.690]  You know, Walter Annenberg died yesterday.
[43:27.390 --> 43:27.590]  Really?
[43:27.810 --> 43:27.990]  Yeah.
[43:27.990 --> 43:29.550]  He owned Triangle Publications.
[43:29.690 --> 43:32.110]  I think he was 94, 95 years old.
[43:32.330 --> 43:35.810]  He gave a billion dollars and phony art to the Metropolitan Museum of Art.
[43:35.890 --> 43:38.210]  He bought an auction for inflated prices there.
[43:38.390 --> 43:38.670]  Uh-huh.
[43:38.730 --> 43:40.010]  All the auction hours were fixed.
[43:40.010 --> 43:41.470]  We don't have the headlines in the paper.
[43:41.470 --> 43:46.430]  And then he started the Annenberg School of Communication University of Pennsylvania, California there.
[43:46.970 --> 43:49.010]  And it was quite a character there.
[43:49.130 --> 43:56.590]  His father, Moe, there, or Moe's Annenberg, served a year and a half in Elizabeth Pentenson for a steal and eight or nine million dollars.
[43:57.030 --> 44:01.010]  His father and him founded Philadelphia Inquirer, which wins a lot of Pulitzer prizes there.
[44:01.470 --> 44:10.950]  And his father there, Max Annenberg, there, according to the book, Al Capone there, he used to be involved with a Chicago Tribune circulation there.
[44:13.230 --> 44:16.850]  Okay, you covered a lot of ground here, but is this going to tie in somehow?
[44:17.070 --> 44:21.910]  I think it will make a great movie, Annenberg's life story, his father and him.
[44:22.150 --> 44:26.670]  Great movie, and charged $9.50 tickets for popcorn, candy, and soda, you know what I'm saying?
[44:27.430 --> 44:30.350]  Well, we'll add it to the list of things we are thinking about.
[44:30.370 --> 44:32.030]  Annenberg was a great character sitting down.
[44:33.070 --> 44:35.530]  McCormick in the Chicago Tribune, Annenberg, you know?
[44:35.830 --> 44:36.750]  Yeah, yeah.
[44:36.870 --> 44:40.350]  Okay, well, thanks for the suggestion, and thanks for the history lesson as well.
[44:41.530 --> 44:43.570]  212-209-2900, good evening, you're on the air.
[44:45.130 --> 44:46.070]  Hey, how are you doing, Emmanuel?
[44:46.250 --> 44:46.570]  What's up?
[44:46.890 --> 44:48.410]  Hey, great show.
[44:48.750 --> 44:49.110]  Thank you.
[44:50.190 --> 44:51.970]  So, got a question for you here.
[44:52.450 --> 44:55.290]  That stream that these guys are running is really vast.
[44:55.410 --> 44:58.770]  In fact, I've dropped WBAI a couple of times tonight, but kept their stream.
[44:58.890 --> 44:59.930]  Why are they running over there?
[45:01.310 --> 45:02.270]  Tim, what are you guys running?
[45:02.350 --> 45:03.290]  What kind of connection do you have?
[45:05.190 --> 45:06.270]  You mean the stream?
[45:06.670 --> 45:07.990]  Yeah, the video stream.
[45:07.990 --> 45:14.170]  Tim, I'm sitting here streaming it with Off The Hook, and I keep dropping Off The Hook, but your stream is solid.
[45:14.670 --> 45:16.630]  Well, we're not streaming directly from the building.
[45:16.630 --> 45:19.950]  It's just a streaming company that's doing it with their lines.
[45:20.150 --> 45:23.650]  I don't really know what the connection is, but there are, well, many options available.
[45:23.790 --> 45:32.910]  You have a 100-kilobit and a 300-kilobit stream, and there's a real and Windows Media Player option and a small bandwidth, QuickTime stream as well.
[45:32.910 --> 45:34.770]  Are you able to tell how many people are connecting to you?
[45:35.090 --> 45:35.270]  Pardon?
[45:35.470 --> 45:37.650]  Can you tell how many people are connecting and watching the picture?
[45:37.670 --> 45:41.310]  No, I haven't had a look on the statistics, but I guess it's a few.
[45:41.810 --> 45:42.030]  Uh-huh.
[45:42.390 --> 45:43.790]  I'd say it's more than a few now.
[45:43.970 --> 45:45.670]  Yeah, they're running the matrix code right now.
[45:45.910 --> 45:46.610]  What are they doing?
[45:46.890 --> 45:48.370]  They're doing, like, a matrix code.
[45:48.490 --> 45:49.090]  It's pretty cool.
[45:49.290 --> 45:49.550]  Uh-huh.
[45:49.550 --> 45:53.930]  Well, actually, I'm delayed from you guys, probably, so, yeah, I don't know.
[45:53.930 --> 45:54.990]  There's many different ways.
[45:55.190 --> 46:03.610]  From the hook playlist to the general playlist, which shows a lot more variety, like 3D cubes rotating and other funny things happening.
[46:03.930 --> 46:04.110]  Uh-huh.
[46:04.110 --> 46:05.670]  One other question for you.
[46:05.770 --> 46:10.630]  Can people submit direct XML files rather than, like, you know, giving animations to convert and stuff?
[46:11.150 --> 46:12.070]  Oh, absolutely.
[46:12.070 --> 46:29.410]  And we really prefer our own BlinkLight markup language because it retains all the meta information about the author and everything else, so BML is preferred and GIF is just the, well, the option if you have no way of producing it or using the tools.
[46:29.670 --> 46:30.630]  It's the easy way out.
[46:30.730 --> 46:30.950]  Okay.
[46:31.350 --> 46:31.550]  Yeah.
[46:31.970 --> 46:32.250]  All right.
[46:32.290 --> 46:32.770]  Thanks for calling.
[46:32.970 --> 46:33.210]  Thanks.
[46:33.410 --> 46:33.790]  Have a good one.
[46:34.010 --> 46:36.450]  Tim, does this run until sunrise all night long?
[46:36.670 --> 46:36.830]  Yeah.
[46:37.030 --> 46:37.410]  It does.
[46:37.550 --> 46:37.690]  Great.
[46:37.950 --> 46:40.350]  And you have people submitting things from all around the world?
[46:40.670 --> 46:41.150]  Yeah.
[46:41.150 --> 46:58.930]  It's pretty cool, like, emails from Taiwan, oh, I just saw this on TV, here's my animation from me, and there's one guy in Australia who's already given us tons of cool animations for our first installation, and he's with us right now, and the best ones are from him.
[46:59.730 --> 47:02.830]  So, this is a really global thing going on.
[47:03.310 --> 47:03.630]  Mm-hmm.
[47:04.170 --> 47:04.490]  Cool.
[47:04.810 --> 47:06.250]  All right, let's take some more phone calls.
[47:06.330 --> 47:07.830]  212-209-2900.
[47:08.070 --> 47:09.310]  And good evening, you're on the air.
[47:10.110 --> 47:10.950]  Yeah, hi.
[47:12.070 --> 47:20.090]  This may be a silly question, but is this technology protected somehow, or are buildings all over the world soon going to have commercial messages on them?
[47:20.410 --> 47:22.090]  Well, this isn't a commercial message.
[47:22.290 --> 47:22.710]  This is...
[47:22.710 --> 47:24.950]  Yeah, no, but I see that happening really soon.
[47:24.970 --> 47:29.710]  You mean, you're afraid of buildings using this just to promote products and things like that?
[47:29.830 --> 47:30.330]  Oh, yeah.
[47:30.490 --> 47:32.230]  Don't you see that happening really soon?
[47:32.230 --> 47:37.450]  I guess around here, yeah, that is quite possible that that would happen, it would be subverted in that way.
[47:37.470 --> 47:38.470]  Yeah, here on this planet, yeah.
[47:38.870 --> 47:40.550]  So, I mean...
[47:40.550 --> 47:41.430]  I mean, it's...
[47:42.410 --> 47:42.630]  Yeah.
[47:42.970 --> 47:49.870]  Well, Tim, let me ask you, have you met any kind of resistance from people that are afraid it will turn into some kind of advertising billboard?
[47:50.470 --> 47:53.850]  No, we had a discussion with the bibliotheque, sure.
[47:54.110 --> 48:04.990]  So, they were pretty angry that this could happen, but, well, it doesn't, because it's straight that this is an artist project, and, well, we are mentioning the sponsor on the building, but that's all.
[48:05.610 --> 48:07.050]  No, it's very reduced.
[48:07.750 --> 48:24.930]  And, of course, many people are turning to us, well, well, we are the marketing event agency, la, la, la, from Tra-la-la, and we want to do it for this and that and Coca-Cola and what else, and, well, you know, it's not really fun to do this for a commercial thing.
[48:25.250 --> 48:27.550]  But do you think that's a danger that that could happen in the future?
[48:28.150 --> 48:28.630]  Danger.
[48:28.850 --> 48:44.530]  I mean, in the end, if all the companies in the world start running their advertisement on buildings, which is an easy thing to do, of course, because you still need the building, and you need the, well, you need the public to agree with this, because if they get disturbed,
[48:44.750 --> 48:47.470]  they will probably prevent people, companies, from doing that.
[48:47.610 --> 48:51.010]  I mean, that's the same discussion with huge billboards and everything.
[48:51.210 --> 48:53.190]  So there's no real difference.
[48:53.490 --> 49:00.130]  Right now we're at the start, but I, well, we, you know, I know this has to, had to happen, yeah?
[49:00.550 --> 49:01.810]  And we just did it.
[49:01.890 --> 49:03.310]  I mean, we haven't been the first one.
[49:03.390 --> 49:22.770]  The first project this kind was, as far as I know, at the MIT, the VU meter, and a couple of years ago, the first Tetris, also in Boston, and there was a similar project in Brussels, called Marnix, which already used colors, but was amazingly expensive.
[49:24.130 --> 49:30.270]  And the TU Technical University in Delft, in Holland, did also a Tetris.
[49:30.510 --> 49:31.770]  Were they as big as this, though?
[49:32.270 --> 49:36.230]  Well, right now we are getting the records back here.
[49:36.430 --> 49:43.310]  This is definitely the biggest installation so far, the biggest Tetris, the most interactive installation, and so on.
[49:43.470 --> 49:45.810]  Are people actually able to play a good game of Tetris on this thing?
[49:46.210 --> 49:46.430]  Pardon?
[49:46.610 --> 49:48.250]  They're actually able to play a decent game?
[49:48.670 --> 49:49.430]  Yeah, and they do.
[49:49.610 --> 49:50.770]  They're calling all night.
[49:52.610 --> 49:52.970]  Wow.
[49:53.710 --> 49:54.830]  All right, let's take another phone call.
[49:54.970 --> 49:56.510]  212-209-2900.
[49:57.130 --> 49:57.610]  Good evening.
[49:57.670 --> 49:58.070]  You're on the air.
[49:59.470 --> 49:59.830]  Hello?
[50:00.070 --> 50:00.470]  Yes, go ahead.
[50:01.150 --> 50:01.430]  Hi.
[50:01.950 --> 50:02.570]  I'm online?
[50:03.130 --> 50:04.090]  You're on the air, yes.
[50:04.390 --> 50:05.050]  Oh, hi.
[50:05.110 --> 50:05.890]  I'm calling from Paris.
[50:06.030 --> 50:09.490]  Thank you for, and I'll go in and I'll check it out tomorrow.
[50:09.490 --> 50:11.230]  Tell me...
[50:11.230 --> 50:12.450]  You're in Paris?
[50:12.690 --> 50:13.610]  I am, and now, yes.
[50:13.750 --> 50:18.590]  I'm a regular listener to BAI, thanks to ADSL.
[50:19.070 --> 50:21.230]  And, yeah, I'm also looking at the stream.
[50:21.610 --> 50:24.870]  I'm probably getting it a little quicker than you.
[50:25.110 --> 50:26.470]  And it's beautiful.
[50:27.070 --> 50:30.510]  What's holding back adding color?
[50:32.070 --> 50:33.770]  Ooh, the color question.
[50:35.190 --> 50:42.710]  Well, for color, you need at least three separate lights per window to mix it.
[50:42.930 --> 50:43.570]  And you have two...
[50:43.570 --> 50:53.950]  We haven't done zero tests yet, but we expect a problem with blue, because if you're already using ordinary light bulb technology, you have a lack of blue in this.
[50:53.950 --> 50:56.950]  So, you probably need even four lamps.
[50:57.890 --> 51:07.510]  And, well, first of all, we were not that interested in color at all, because we started with blinking lights with pure monochrome low resolution.
[51:07.510 --> 51:13.150]  And we knew that the next step could only be doing grayscaling.
[51:13.630 --> 51:13.710]  Yeah.
[51:13.990 --> 51:16.810]  It's just the evolutionary step in this project.
[51:17.750 --> 51:23.610]  So, if there will be the next installation, we are, of course, thinking about this.
[51:23.910 --> 51:28.770]  We could do color with fluorescent tubes, but this is pretty expensive.
[51:30.930 --> 51:41.170]  And I assume Paris supported this endeavor, and is that how you get your funding?
[51:41.910 --> 51:42.350]  Yes.
[51:42.490 --> 51:45.830]  It is part of the Nuit Blanche Festival that's going on this weekend.
[51:45.950 --> 51:46.670]  Yes, the white night.
[51:46.770 --> 51:50.550]  Which is organized by the Mere de Paris, the mayor of Paris.
[51:51.130 --> 51:52.510]  So, and that's why they asked.
[51:52.690 --> 51:57.270]  So, we are more or less part of this single night, although our installation is running for eleven nights.
[51:57.570 --> 51:59.970]  So, our last night is the night of the Nuit Blanche.
[52:00.650 --> 52:04.870]  And then, yeah, you probably have already seen all the posters hanging around.
[52:05.310 --> 52:07.610]  So, we are just one of the projects.
[52:07.950 --> 52:12.130]  And on Saturday night, much more will happen around Paris.
[52:12.850 --> 52:15.770]  Sir, you're in Paris now, but you can't see the actual building.
[52:16.090 --> 52:16.530]  No.
[52:16.790 --> 52:18.350]  Actually, I'm on the edge.
[52:18.490 --> 52:18.890]  No, I'm not.
[52:19.090 --> 52:19.930]  But I'll be in.
[52:20.030 --> 52:21.190]  So, I'll see tomorrow night.
[52:21.370 --> 52:23.370]  I'd like to know if I can submit.
[52:23.530 --> 52:24.570]  Must it be an animation?
[52:24.830 --> 52:26.070]  Or can it be...
[52:26.690 --> 52:31.210]  Can I convert a JPEG into... It must be animated?
[52:31.210 --> 52:34.750]  It should be either GIF or our own animation format.
[52:34.850 --> 52:37.970]  But you'll find it on the web.
[52:38.130 --> 52:39.470]  It's pretty good.
[52:40.030 --> 52:42.190]  You can just convert a JPEG.
[52:42.250 --> 52:43.150]  I'm sure that'll work, right?
[52:43.270 --> 52:44.830]  Well, JPEG is just a single image.
[52:45.490 --> 52:49.330]  Well, it would be nice if you would at least convert it to GIF yourself.
[52:50.150 --> 52:50.190]  Okay.
[52:50.350 --> 52:56.230]  And you have to care about some aspect ratio because we do not have square pixels.
[52:56.610 --> 52:58.950]  But the aspect ratio is two to one.
[52:59.550 --> 53:07.390]  So, if you take care about this and you send it to me and you mention off the hook, I will make sure your animation gets on the screen as fast as possible.
[53:08.070 --> 53:08.410]  Okay.
[53:08.410 --> 53:09.190]  I'd love to see it.
[53:09.330 --> 53:10.010]  Well, thanks for calling.
[53:10.370 --> 53:10.790]  Thank you.
[53:10.930 --> 53:11.130]  All right.
[53:11.130 --> 53:11.570]  Take care.
[53:13.410 --> 53:13.850]  All right.
[53:13.970 --> 53:14.450]  That's great.
[53:14.530 --> 53:15.230]  We got a call from Paris.
[53:15.450 --> 53:18.170]  It's almost two in the morning there and there's people listening to us in Paris.
[53:18.330 --> 53:19.190]  That's really cool.
[53:19.310 --> 53:20.010]  Question from the studio.
[53:20.610 --> 53:28.390]  I just want to say that you could use filters instead of, like, separate lamps for different colors because...
[53:28.390 --> 53:28.390]  Yeah.
[53:28.710 --> 53:29.170]  Yeah.
[53:29.290 --> 53:30.610]  That's something we're thinking about.
[53:30.770 --> 53:33.830]  But, well, we were so busy with the grayscaling stuff here.
[53:33.970 --> 53:36.790]  And we ran into a lot of problems here with the electricity.
[53:36.790 --> 53:40.090]  It's really amazing to see when you're doing this.
[53:42.210 --> 53:48.550]  Because there are tons of other things slipping from the electrical power.
[53:48.930 --> 53:51.010]  So we had problems with flashing lights.
[53:51.390 --> 53:57.610]  And if you look at the image, you can see that we do not get all the pixels right, especially in the fifth to seventh floor.
[53:57.770 --> 53:59.750]  We have a real weird problem.
[53:59.930 --> 54:01.590]  We don't really know how to figure out.
[54:01.690 --> 54:05.010]  And we probably won't until the end of the installation.
[54:05.290 --> 54:06.810]  Some troublemakers on those floors, huh?
[54:07.050 --> 54:08.550]  We already learned a lot.
[54:09.510 --> 54:09.950]  Okay.
[54:10.150 --> 54:11.150]  Let's take another phone call.
[54:11.150 --> 54:13.890]  It's actually the floor where the president has this bureau.
[54:14.130 --> 54:15.110]  Maybe that's the reason.
[54:16.810 --> 54:17.610]  How about that?
[54:17.690 --> 54:17.970]  Good evening.
[54:18.090 --> 54:18.990]  You're on the air.
[54:19.930 --> 54:20.130]  Oops.
[54:20.770 --> 54:21.930]  There's an American dial tone, huh?
[54:22.530 --> 54:23.430]  I've never heard of those in a while.
[54:24.310 --> 54:25.690]  Let's try this one over here.
[54:26.330 --> 54:26.930]  Good evening.
[54:27.050 --> 54:27.550]  You're on the air.
[54:28.070 --> 54:28.510]  Two of them.
[54:29.390 --> 54:29.730]  Okay.
[54:31.250 --> 54:32.170]  One more try.
[54:32.310 --> 54:32.630]  Good evening.
[54:32.790 --> 54:33.290]  You're on the air.
[54:34.490 --> 54:34.850]  Emmanuel.
[54:35.150 --> 54:35.630]  Yes, go ahead.
[54:35.990 --> 54:36.330]  Hi.
[54:36.550 --> 54:39.490]  I just called in before about freedom downtime.
[54:39.490 --> 54:39.830]  Yeah?
[54:40.110 --> 54:42.750]  I was wondering if... I just tuned in in like the middle of the show.
[54:42.770 --> 54:45.350]  I was wondering if you guys talked about Kevin Mitnick's laptop on eBay.
[54:46.590 --> 54:48.010]  Well, that happened a while ago, didn't it?
[54:48.630 --> 54:49.490]  It's still on there.
[54:49.590 --> 54:50.350]  Oh, it is still on there.
[54:50.490 --> 54:50.690]  Yeah.
[54:50.790 --> 54:51.670]  Why don't you tell us?
[54:51.790 --> 54:53.470]  It's up to like $9,100.
[54:54.110 --> 54:54.410]  Really?
[54:54.710 --> 54:56.770]  Yeah, I was like the first person to bid on it.
[54:56.870 --> 54:57.150]  Uh-huh.
[54:57.670 --> 55:00.010]  And now it's up to like $9,100 and I can't afford that.
[55:00.010 --> 55:01.410]  I was wondering if you guys knew about that.
[55:01.430 --> 55:02.390]  When does it expire?
[55:03.350 --> 55:04.230]  Four days, I think.
[55:04.390 --> 55:04.830]  Four days.
[55:04.830 --> 55:09.770]  Well, I guess if people want Kevin Mitnick's laptop, they're running out of time.
[55:10.230 --> 55:14.950]  Yeah, apparently they put a new version of Windows 95 on the 486.
[55:15.970 --> 55:16.390]  Uh-huh.
[55:16.530 --> 55:16.910]  So, go figure.
[55:17.050 --> 55:18.310]  I guess they wiped all the stuff out.
[55:18.490 --> 55:20.670]  Well, I'll take a look at it when I get online.
[55:20.770 --> 55:23.290]  It's an interesting thing to keep track of, I guess.
[55:23.430 --> 55:23.930]  Yeah, yeah.
[55:24.290 --> 55:24.650]  All right.
[55:24.970 --> 55:27.230]  Well, I just wanted to let you guys know if you guys didn't know already.
[55:27.390 --> 55:27.590]  All right.
[55:27.650 --> 55:28.250]  Thanks for letting us know.
[55:28.470 --> 55:28.670]  Later.
[55:28.870 --> 55:28.990]  Bye.
[55:28.990 --> 55:29.110]  Okay.
[55:30.190 --> 55:30.790]  Good evening.
[55:30.890 --> 55:31.290]  You're on the air.
[55:32.070 --> 55:32.790]  Yes, good evening.
[55:33.030 --> 55:33.470]  What's up?
[55:33.930 --> 55:34.990]  I'm listening to you guys.
[55:34.990 --> 55:36.230]  I just stepped back into the house.
[55:36.410 --> 55:39.330]  I'm listening to you guys talking about something happening on a building in Paris.
[55:39.350 --> 55:39.750]  Yes.
[55:39.990 --> 55:41.490]  And there's a website associated.
[55:42.150 --> 55:42.750]  That's right.
[55:42.930 --> 55:43.550]  What's the URL?
[55:43.810 --> 55:44.410]  Ah, okay.
[55:44.630 --> 55:46.830]  Once more, the URL is blinkenlights.
[55:47.010 --> 55:54.890]  B-L-I-N-K-E-N-L-I-G-H-T-S dot D-E as in Deutschland slash arcade slash live.
[55:55.850 --> 56:01.870]  And if you just want to learn more about the program and the project and all that kind of thing, just leave off the slash live and you'll learn about that.
[56:02.630 --> 56:02.950]  Okay.
[56:04.430 --> 56:08.150]  Blinkenlights dot D-E slash arcade slash live.
[56:08.330 --> 56:08.730]  That's right.
[56:09.010 --> 56:09.330]  Thank you.
[56:09.490 --> 56:09.730]  All right.
[56:10.390 --> 56:12.310]  And that's, I think, the last time I'm going to give out the URL.
[56:13.010 --> 56:14.030]  I've done it so many times.
[56:14.110 --> 56:14.350]  Good evening.
[56:14.450 --> 56:14.930]  You're on the air.
[56:16.430 --> 56:16.830]  Speak up.
[56:16.870 --> 56:20.010]  Hi, this is Michael Fever calling on behalf of White House Credit Foundation.
[56:20.470 --> 56:20.810]  And not...
[56:20.810 --> 56:21.910]  You can go to hell.
[56:22.650 --> 56:23.170]  Good evening.
[56:23.310 --> 56:23.730]  You're on the air.
[56:24.450 --> 56:26.030]  Did you know that you have been approved...
[56:26.030 --> 56:27.250]  How did that happen on two lines?
[56:27.470 --> 56:28.390]  Two lines at once.
[56:29.090 --> 56:30.010]  Someone's messing with us.
[56:30.090 --> 56:30.330]  Good evening.
[56:30.450 --> 56:30.950]  You're on the air.
[56:32.350 --> 56:35.970]  Hi, I was wondering if there was any plans for Freedom Downtime 2.
[56:36.190 --> 56:37.610]  Can you turn down your radio, please?
[56:37.810 --> 56:38.930]  Freedom Downtime 2?
[56:39.050 --> 56:41.350]  Well, Kevin would have to be put back in jail for that to happen.
[56:41.450 --> 56:42.890]  I don't think that anybody wants that.
[56:43.750 --> 56:45.710]  Well, there's always going to be a story to tell.
[56:46.430 --> 56:55.710]  Whether we're the ones telling the story or somebody else, I guarantee someone's going to tell the story as long as there's, you know, camcorders and people who have the desire to tell something.
[56:56.090 --> 56:56.270]  Right.
[56:56.350 --> 57:03.450]  So, I guess, you know, it won't be called that most likely, but we'll have all kinds of different projects to work on.
[57:03.490 --> 57:04.690]  And we're always open to ideas.
[57:05.230 --> 57:05.490]  I see.
[57:05.710 --> 57:06.230]  Well, thank you.
[57:06.230 --> 57:06.550]  Okay.
[57:06.790 --> 57:07.170]  Thanks again.
[57:07.590 --> 57:10.510]  And let's take one last phone call, and then we've got to say goodnight.
[57:10.630 --> 57:11.190]  Let's go over here.
[57:11.450 --> 57:11.750]  Good evening.
[57:11.850 --> 57:12.290]  You're on the air.
[57:13.510 --> 57:14.150]  Speak up.
[57:14.710 --> 57:14.970]  Hi.
[57:15.170 --> 57:20.070]  I don't know if you know this, but JPEG Adaptive is owned by IBM, ATT, and Mitsubishi.
[57:21.110 --> 57:21.570]  Okay.
[57:22.030 --> 57:25.930]  And I'll bet GIF is owned by something similar to that.
[57:26.210 --> 57:33.970]  And I'm just getting about six months before this becomes of the new advertising media of the world.
[57:35.570 --> 57:36.710]  Any comments on that, Tim?
[57:37.930 --> 57:39.450]  I'm not sure I did get that.
[57:40.150 --> 57:43.010]  I think he was predicting something ominous, Jim.
[57:43.230 --> 57:44.050]  Well, I have a comment.
[57:44.310 --> 57:55.130]  In my earliest life, way back when, when I invented writing, I mean, I was approached by a spirit salesman who wanted to use this to advertise, but I figured that the good outweighed the bad.
[57:55.550 --> 57:56.090]  Thanks, Jim.
[57:56.810 --> 57:58.270]  Jim, any final words?
[57:58.350 --> 57:59.270]  I couldn't have said it better.
[58:00.810 --> 58:01.170]  Okay.
[58:01.370 --> 58:03.010]  Well, we want to thank you for being part of this.
[58:03.010 --> 58:04.650]  And best of luck in the project.
[58:05.110 --> 58:06.770]  And keep doing things like this.
[58:06.910 --> 58:07.690]  It's a real inspiration.
[58:08.070 --> 58:10.450]  Anything you want to tell the folks as final words?
[58:12.570 --> 58:15.250]  Well, join into the project as long as it runs.
[58:15.250 --> 58:18.090]  And we are very happy for every feedback we get.
[58:18.490 --> 58:21.630]  And maybe the programmers out there are interested in the code as well.
[58:22.250 --> 58:24.210]  And we'd like to get in contact with you.
[58:24.210 --> 58:24.910]  Okay.
[58:25.190 --> 58:28.470]  And people, please come to the Chaos Congress in December.
[58:28.710 --> 58:30.630]  More information on the website, ccc.de.
[58:30.950 --> 58:32.690]  And hopefully there'll be a camp next summer.
[58:32.870 --> 58:35.190]  And we'll see you again next week.
[58:35.310 --> 58:38.110]  And in two weeks, we'll have Kevin Mitnick in the studio.
[58:38.810 --> 58:39.970]  Emmanuel Goldstein for Off The Hook.
[58:40.070 --> 58:40.510]  Have a good night.
[58:40.510 --> 58:41.370]  Okay.
[59:18.200 --> 59:19.280]  Hold it.
[59:19.540 --> 59:19.740]  Listen.
[59:23.580 --> 59:25.540]  Let's get started.
[59:25.880 --> 59:27.020]  Thank you.
[59:28.740 --> 59:31.140]  Thank you.
[59:31.140 --> 59:32.980]  Hi I'm out ofock.
[59:41.880 --> 59:43.180]  Hi.
[59:43.180 --> 59:43.440]  Bye my best.
[59:43.900 --> 59:45.380]  Hi hey?
[59:46.260 --> 59:47.640]  This is the first sentence.