[00:03.480 --> 00:10.780]  On a Pacifica station, KPFA in Berkeley, Josh Chaffin is our DC editor at Pacifica station WPFW.
[00:11.040 --> 00:13.660]  Web support from Vanessa Tate and Leslie Holmes.
[00:13.960 --> 00:20.240]  You can visit FSRN online at www.fsrn.org.
[00:20.620 --> 00:21.980]  I'm Deepa Fernandes.
[00:31.980 --> 00:39.100]  In this era of danger, spin and blather, independent voices on the airwaves are more valuable than ever.
[00:39.100 --> 00:46.200]  And beginning on Wednesday, February 12th, WBAI Radio will be seeking your support in our winter fun drive.
[00:46.520 --> 00:56.890]  Join us as we celebrate Black History Month and celebrate the vast array of local and national programming available on this air, even as we keep an eye on the powers that be.
[00:57.040 --> 01:01.140]  Join us in the tally room to take pledges from your fellow listeners and meet the staff.
[01:01.320 --> 01:07.520]  To arrange a volunteer shift, please call Pauline at 212-209-2827.
[01:07.520 --> 01:11.200]  That's 212-209-2827.
[01:11.500 --> 01:16.020]  Join us as a member and support WBAI in this most crucial of days.
[01:25.040 --> 01:28.580]  And this is Radio Station WBAI in New York.
[01:28.720 --> 01:30.660]  Time is 7.01.
[01:31.000 --> 01:31.880]  Time for Off the Hook.
[01:36.960 --> 01:59.110]  The telephone keeps ringing So I ripped it off the wall I cut myself while shaving Now I can't make a call We couldn't get much worse A billy-bomb for the best, expect the worst I hope that's understood One day, let me know
[02:23.440 --> 02:24.700]  And a very good evening to everybody.
[02:24.800 --> 02:25.600]  The program is Off the Hook.
[02:25.680 --> 02:29.280]  Emmanuel Goldstein here back in the studio after a prolonged absence.
[02:29.580 --> 02:36.180]  And Jeff, I want to thank you personally for filling in and making sure things go as crazy as they usually go.
[02:36.360 --> 02:37.380]  It was my pleasure.
[02:37.440 --> 02:39.380]  I couldn't think of a better way to start the year off.
[02:39.720 --> 02:40.360]  Yeah, yeah.
[02:40.500 --> 02:42.080]  And here we are in mid-February.
[02:42.080 --> 02:45.240]  So it's a good time after the start of the new year.
[02:46.240 --> 02:49.400]  I guess, you know, the theme is new beginnings.
[02:49.400 --> 02:55.300]  Because there are so many new beginnings in the air around here, around the country, around the world.
[02:55.480 --> 02:56.680]  And it's kind of inspiring.
[02:56.680 --> 03:00.620]  And I hope that's what we bring out in people tonight is inspiration.
[03:00.620 --> 03:03.240]  Hopefully that'll translate into some fundraising as well.
[03:03.300 --> 03:06.740]  Because that's also why we're here tonight in an extended program.
[03:06.740 --> 03:09.120]  We're going from 7 o'clock until 9 o'clock tonight.
[03:09.560 --> 03:11.560]  A special edition of Off the Hook.
[03:12.880 --> 03:15.700]  And I want to welcome everybody else in the studio as well.
[03:17.140 --> 03:17.840]  I'll say hello.
[03:18.140 --> 03:18.380]  Hello.
[03:18.680 --> 03:18.820]  Hello.
[03:19.100 --> 03:19.840]  All right, everybody's there.
[03:19.880 --> 03:20.240]  That's good.
[03:20.480 --> 03:21.680]  It's good to know the mics are working.
[03:22.720 --> 03:25.800]  Okay, how many of you went to the demonstration on Saturday?
[03:26.680 --> 03:27.160]  I mean, me.
[03:27.600 --> 03:28.300]  You went...
[03:28.300 --> 03:29.200]  Okay, Sarah, if you were there.
[03:29.380 --> 03:30.360]  Mike, I assume you were there.
[03:30.440 --> 03:30.860]  I was there.
[03:30.940 --> 03:33.240]  Yeah, you were at the IMC, too, working on their website.
[03:33.540 --> 03:34.860]  I was all kinds of places.
[03:35.080 --> 03:36.660]  Yeah, you split in two at one point.
[03:36.740 --> 03:37.760]  That was something to behold.
[03:37.980 --> 03:38.760]  How did I do that?
[03:38.860 --> 03:39.800]  I don't know how you did that.
[03:39.920 --> 03:40.640]  I was hoping you'd know.
[03:40.940 --> 03:42.520]  But you were in two places at once.
[03:42.860 --> 03:45.320]  And, well, it was quite an accomplishment.
[03:45.320 --> 03:46.700]  And you got a lot done as both people.
[03:48.000 --> 03:49.400]  Jeff, were you at the demonstration?
[03:49.720 --> 03:52.420]  No, I had worked to finish up before I came into the city.
[03:52.440 --> 03:53.620]  But I did make it in that night.
[03:53.640 --> 03:57.400]  And as I came in to the Port Authority, everyone was leaving with their signs.
[03:57.540 --> 03:58.480]  Yeah, you went to the Toy Fair.
[03:59.020 --> 03:59.860]  This was a...
[03:59.860 --> 04:00.160]  Yes.
[04:00.360 --> 04:02.440]  Which is, you know, an extension of the demonstration, really.
[04:02.540 --> 04:03.600]  You know, when you think about it.
[04:06.740 --> 04:07.320]  Peace to the World.
[04:07.580 --> 04:07.860]  Exactly.
[04:08.040 --> 04:08.140]  Yeah.
[04:08.420 --> 04:11.060]  So you're fighting the fight in your own way.
[04:12.100 --> 04:15.460]  And it was fun to get stranded in the city for an extra day.
[04:15.700 --> 04:16.780]  Well, because of the snow, yes.
[04:17.100 --> 04:18.780]  We had lots of snow as well.
[04:18.920 --> 04:23.000]  And for people archiving this in the future, we had one of the biggest snowfalls ever.
[04:23.000 --> 04:24.520]  I think the fourth largest in the city.
[04:24.720 --> 04:24.940]  Yes.
[04:25.580 --> 04:27.360]  Which, you know, I think it's great.
[04:27.540 --> 04:28.580]  I'm all in favor of it.
[04:28.660 --> 04:30.200]  But, you know, it's not that big a deal.
[04:30.460 --> 04:32.460]  You know, after one day, everybody got out of it.
[04:32.520 --> 04:33.600]  And people were walking around.
[04:33.740 --> 04:34.240]  There was no problem.
[04:34.300 --> 04:34.880]  Everything was open.
[04:34.960 --> 04:36.080]  All the streets were passable.
[04:36.260 --> 04:40.800]  So, you know, I don't think it calls for 24-hour news bulletins and things like that.
[04:40.820 --> 04:42.560]  I don't think we did that here on WBAI.
[04:42.680 --> 04:44.640]  I think we pretty much said, hey, folks, it's snowing outside.
[04:44.640 --> 04:45.340]  You know, and that's it.
[04:45.780 --> 04:46.940]  Let's get on with our programming.
[04:47.160 --> 04:49.100]  And I was at the Javits Center every day.
[04:49.900 --> 04:50.940]  We didn't stop it.
[04:50.960 --> 04:51.620]  It was still open.
[04:51.620 --> 04:53.960]  Could you get out of the Javits Center or were you stranded in the Javits Center?
[04:54.000 --> 04:54.560]  No, no, no, no.
[04:54.620 --> 04:55.700]  No, we were in and out.
[04:55.840 --> 04:57.760]  But you were stranded in New York City, right?
[04:57.900 --> 05:00.300]  Well, if you want to call it stranded, I was staying with friends.
[05:00.440 --> 05:02.060]  So it was a good stranded.
[05:02.280 --> 05:04.420]  Oh, would they have called it stranded or no?
[05:06.440 --> 05:07.060]  Jim, yes.
[05:07.260 --> 05:13.580]  I just want to say that a local newscaster, a guy by the name of Christopher Jones on Fox News, made a great point, which is relevant.
[05:14.320 --> 05:17.120]  Before the snow, everybody's worried about duct tape and plastic.
[05:17.760 --> 05:21.520]  Snow comes and we're back to the business of normal life.
[05:21.620 --> 05:24.980]  Snow, bread and milk, salt, shovels, the whole bit.
[05:26.200 --> 05:28.780]  I don't understand this whole duct tape business.
[05:28.820 --> 05:41.120]  And for those of you who are just waking up out of comas and things like that, I think Tom Ridge really regrets what he said as far as telling people to go out and get duct tape to prepare themselves against terrorists.
[05:41.260 --> 05:43.180]  First of all, I don't know what duct tape is going to do.
[05:43.600 --> 05:45.640]  I guess you can seal your windows or something like that.
[05:45.640 --> 05:46.700]  Yeah, that's the theory.
[05:46.880 --> 05:52.600]  But he actually had to go on TV and tell people, please, don't seal your windows now.
[05:52.720 --> 05:54.020]  Don't buy too much duct tape.
[05:54.160 --> 05:55.400]  You know, this is for the future.
[05:55.400 --> 05:56.180]  It's not for now.
[05:57.380 --> 05:59.440]  It's really, the whole thing is very, very silly.
[05:59.700 --> 06:06.160]  Well, just to be serious and technical and quick, there are things wrong with this idea in general.
[06:06.420 --> 06:12.000]  Duct tape is supposed to prevent noxious substances seeping in.
[06:12.140 --> 06:16.160]  Number one, they're going to seep in through cracks in your door and cracks in your wall anyway.
[06:16.320 --> 06:18.640]  Well, if you put duct tape over everything, though, then...
[06:18.640 --> 06:23.940]  Well, why don't you just get an inflatable tent or something or an environmental hazard suit or your scuba suit or whatever?
[06:24.160 --> 06:27.400]  Well, imagine an apartment completely covered with duct tape.
[06:27.480 --> 06:28.320]  You don't have to paint it.
[06:28.440 --> 06:29.740]  You don't have to maintain it.
[06:29.820 --> 06:31.280]  It's just, you know, it's safe.
[06:31.880 --> 06:33.200]  I think it's something we should look into.
[06:33.300 --> 06:34.020]  You won't be able to breathe either.
[06:34.180 --> 06:34.340]  Yes.
[06:34.960 --> 06:39.400]  Well, I was going to say that you'd suffocate, and plus there's a guy...
[06:39.400 --> 06:44.080]  Well, suffocation is preferable to being, you know, terrorized by terrorists, don't you think?
[06:44.240 --> 06:45.120]  Well, I mean...
[06:45.120 --> 06:46.880]  If that's the sacrifice we have to make...
[06:46.880 --> 06:47.500]  Let's experiment.
[06:47.700 --> 06:49.460]  You suffocate, I'll be terrorized.
[06:49.700 --> 06:51.240]  Well, okay, I'll consider that.
[06:51.340 --> 06:58.000]  I thought the plastic and duct tape, where you put the bag over your head, wrap the tape around your neck, and that would solve the problems.
[07:01.280 --> 07:02.640]  But, you know, there was a report on CNN.
[07:02.800 --> 07:04.800]  I love watching these things because they're so funny.
[07:04.880 --> 07:05.660]  They were talking about...
[07:05.660 --> 07:07.260]  I think it was on that Talk Back Live show.
[07:08.200 --> 07:14.900]  They were talking about the duct tape panic, and they were doing this whole feature on depleting supplies of duct tape in stores.
[07:15.160 --> 07:23.500]  And they showed a shelf in a major store that had many different labels for duct tape, you know, and they were all, sure enough, empty.
[07:23.500 --> 07:37.260]  But the thing that they missed, the thing that everybody missed, was the fact that all the labels for duct tape were spelled D-U-C-K in the store, which just points out how illiterate everybody is out there, you know, stocking these shelves.
[07:37.380 --> 07:40.420]  They actually call it duct tape, as if you're taping a duck or something.
[07:40.540 --> 07:46.760]  There's actually a trademarked brand of duct with a T tape called duck with a K tape.
[07:46.920 --> 07:47.300]  Oh, really?
[07:47.520 --> 07:49.340]  Well, maybe that was... I don't think so.
[07:49.340 --> 07:51.280]  No, I don't think they make that many different varieties.
[07:51.280 --> 07:52.000]  These are competitors.
[07:53.140 --> 07:59.360]  We should tell the people that the color is orange, in case anyone has been trapped in a cave.
[08:00.660 --> 08:02.000]  Oh, you mean the alert color.
[08:02.180 --> 08:02.940]  The color is orange.
[08:03.020 --> 08:04.580]  Now, that happened since our last show, right?
[08:04.680 --> 08:04.860]  Right.
[08:04.980 --> 08:05.620]  Okay, so...
[08:05.620 --> 08:08.620]  We just want to keep people posted who rely on us for the color.
[08:08.620 --> 08:12.120]  We're being chastised by our listeners for not announcing it, but it happened after the show, so...
[08:12.120 --> 08:14.160]  No, no, no, no, it happened before our last show.
[08:14.260 --> 08:14.320]  I don't think so.
[08:14.320 --> 08:15.140]  We did mention it.
[08:15.460 --> 08:15.860]  No?
[08:16.040 --> 08:16.720]  I don't think so.
[08:16.780 --> 08:18.520]  I have a strange feeling of discussing it.
[08:18.800 --> 08:20.580]  Well, that's because it happened once before.
[08:21.140 --> 08:21.740]  You know?
[08:22.120 --> 08:23.280]  New York's orange, anyway.
[08:23.520 --> 08:23.720]  Yes.
[08:23.860 --> 08:26.240]  New York City was in orange alert since September.
[08:26.440 --> 08:27.280]  Okay, you know what?
[08:27.420 --> 08:27.640]  Ten.
[08:27.760 --> 08:31.540]  You just bought into the exact same thing everybody else is buying into, because they...
[08:31.540 --> 08:36.340]  All the news reports are saying, New York has been in condition orange since September 11, 2001.
[08:36.860 --> 08:37.860]  They're all saying that.
[08:38.020 --> 08:40.380]  Now, there was no condition orange on September 11, 2001.
[08:40.640 --> 08:41.800]  When did they come up with a color scheme?
[08:41.860 --> 08:42.820]  They didn't do it that day.
[08:42.900 --> 08:43.340]  Good point.
[08:43.580 --> 08:43.780]  Yeah.
[08:44.060 --> 08:45.940]  But it's been rewritten into history.
[08:46.300 --> 08:47.080]  That's not what they're saying.
[08:47.140 --> 08:47.940]  They're saying 2001.
[08:47.940 --> 08:49.780]  They said September 10, 2002.
[08:50.080 --> 08:50.240]  Really?
[08:50.480 --> 08:51.160]  That's what they said.
[08:51.440 --> 08:52.080]  That's the last thing I've read.
[08:52.080 --> 08:55.000]  Well, that might be more accurate, but check the newspapers, check the broadcasts.
[08:55.020 --> 08:56.040]  That's about the date that they started.
[08:56.200 --> 08:57.720]  It was very close to the one-year anniversary.
[08:57.920 --> 08:58.120]  Mm-hmm.
[08:58.260 --> 08:59.200]  So I think I agree.
[08:59.200 --> 09:01.880]  I've heard 2001 said many, many times, and it's...
[09:01.880 --> 09:02.820]  People misspeak.
[09:02.900 --> 09:06.400]  It's really annoying, but it's becoming fact, and that's why you have to be careful with how things are reported.
[09:07.500 --> 09:09.300]  Now, there's some new developments today.
[09:09.420 --> 09:13.100]  Speaking of new beginnings, this is kind of an interesting beginning.
[09:13.100 --> 09:16.080]  It has a new website out there, a new .gov site.
[09:16.400 --> 09:17.260]  Sarif, what's it called?
[09:18.660 --> 09:19.260]  What's it called?
[09:19.340 --> 09:19.920]  Are we ready?
[09:20.280 --> 09:20.600]  Yes.
[09:20.600 --> 09:22.940]  We have to be ready to get to this website.
[09:23.660 --> 09:24.180]  I'm ready.
[09:24.360 --> 09:24.580]  I'm ready.
[09:24.660 --> 09:25.300]  There's a computer here.
[09:25.380 --> 09:26.420]  Is this computer actually hooked up?
[09:26.660 --> 09:27.180]  It should be.
[09:27.280 --> 09:29.360]  There's been a lot of changes since I came here last.
[09:29.640 --> 09:30.860]  This is actually hooked up to the internet.
[09:31.000 --> 09:31.160]  Yeah.
[09:31.620 --> 09:31.940]  Wow.
[09:32.220 --> 09:33.000]  That's really cool.
[09:33.220 --> 09:34.480]  How long have we been trying to get this done?
[09:34.660 --> 09:35.520]  It's been done...
[09:35.520 --> 09:36.200]  Well, you weren't here.
[09:36.260 --> 09:38.000]  It's been done for at least two months or so.
[09:38.160 --> 09:38.460]  Two months?
[09:38.620 --> 09:38.840]  What?
[09:38.880 --> 09:40.100]  They put it in as soon as I left?
[09:40.260 --> 09:41.020]  That was the idea.
[09:41.020 --> 09:41.420]  Okay.
[09:41.660 --> 09:43.680]  Well, so I can actually go to websites.
[09:43.680 --> 09:46.640]  If I can figure out how to get out of this Windows operating system.
[09:46.820 --> 09:48.220]  To begin, click your username.
[09:48.260 --> 09:49.120]  I don't have a username.
[09:49.900 --> 09:51.460]  Oh, we have to hack into this now.
[09:52.480 --> 09:54.120]  One of the things on the right is the username.
[09:54.520 --> 09:54.840]  Uh-huh.
[09:55.340 --> 09:56.840]  One of the things on the right is the username?
[09:56.960 --> 09:59.700]  Well, the column on the right contains the usernames.
[10:00.880 --> 10:01.440]  Yeah, okay.
[10:01.460 --> 10:02.920]  But it doesn't contain the passwords.
[10:03.620 --> 10:05.700]  One of them should be like, I think, a general one.
[10:05.820 --> 10:07.000]  I would assume because I don't have...
[10:07.000 --> 10:07.200]  Okay, hold on.
[10:07.320 --> 10:08.000]  Let me try that.
[10:11.120 --> 10:12.020]  Try the first one.
[10:12.160 --> 10:13.200]  Did you forget your password?
[10:13.440 --> 10:15.780]  You can click the question mark button to see your password hint.
[10:15.980 --> 10:16.100]  Okay.
[10:16.180 --> 10:16.960]  That's a password hint.
[10:18.580 --> 10:19.880]  I don't know what password hint.
[10:19.940 --> 10:20.120]  Okay.
[10:20.180 --> 10:21.580]  I'm going to try somebody else's password then.
[10:21.760 --> 10:23.460]  I can't believe I'm doing this on the air.
[10:24.540 --> 10:25.280]  Oh, okay.
[10:25.280 --> 10:26.840]  I think I know what this person's password is.
[10:27.900 --> 10:28.260]  No?
[10:28.480 --> 10:29.040]  No, that's wrong.
[10:29.200 --> 10:29.460]  Okay.
[10:29.700 --> 10:30.940]  I'm going to try this one over here.
[10:31.140 --> 10:32.140]  Oh, I got in somehow.
[10:32.320 --> 10:32.780]  I'm in something.
[10:33.920 --> 10:34.320]  All right.
[10:34.380 --> 10:34.700]  I don't know.
[10:35.960 --> 10:36.500]  I'm sorry.
[10:36.580 --> 10:37.720]  Whoever I just hacked into.
[10:39.160 --> 10:40.440]  They have 38 new messages.
[10:40.640 --> 10:40.800]  Okay.
[10:40.920 --> 10:43.840]  Well, you see, you know, if there was an account set up for me, I wouldn't have to do this.
[10:44.220 --> 10:46.300]  But since I just want to get into...
[10:46.300 --> 10:47.520]  I guess I have to open Explorer.
[10:49.240 --> 10:50.320]  Let's go to...
[10:50.320 --> 10:51.300]  What is it?
[10:51.600 --> 10:52.260]  What is it again?
[10:52.740 --> 10:53.380]  Ready.gov?
[10:53.480 --> 10:54.100]  Ready.gov.
[10:54.200 --> 10:55.220]  Ready.gov.
[10:55.760 --> 10:56.000]  Okay.
[10:56.280 --> 11:00.820]  And this is a site that actually was started today from the U.S.
[11:01.160 --> 11:02.220]  Department of Homeland Security.
[11:02.740 --> 11:05.340]  Terrorism forces us to make a choice.
[11:05.720 --> 11:06.480]  Don't be afraid.
[11:06.700 --> 11:07.200]  Be ready.
[11:08.880 --> 11:09.360]  Yes.
[11:10.720 --> 11:11.680]  So, um...
[11:11.680 --> 11:13.280]  I hear they have a telephone number, too.
[11:14.200 --> 11:14.980]  You know what?
[11:14.980 --> 11:15.420]  You're right.
[11:16.360 --> 11:19.300]  In fact, let's get the phone together here.
[11:19.700 --> 11:21.540]  Hopefully I didn't change my password on the phone.
[11:22.660 --> 11:23.140]  Okay.
[11:23.600 --> 11:26.040]  Uh, and let's see if, uh, if they're actually there.
[11:26.880 --> 11:27.580]  Uh, okay.
[11:27.640 --> 11:28.700]  Well, the phone's not dialing.
[11:28.780 --> 11:29.200]  Oh, there they are.
[11:30.060 --> 11:32.640]  These buttons are really, uh, they've been...
[11:33.620 --> 11:34.940]  under a lot of stress lately.
[11:35.760 --> 11:41.100]  The number we are dialing for listeners who want to follow along at home is 1-800-BE-READY.
[11:41.200 --> 11:44.280]  Well, don't tell them yet because they'll get there ahead of me the way these buttons are going.
[11:44.440 --> 11:47.480]  Why don't you give them a number that they can call if they want to make some donations?
[11:47.700 --> 11:47.980]  Hang on.
[11:48.000 --> 11:49.480]  We have to hear what the person's saying.
[11:49.960 --> 11:50.320]  Sorry.
[11:52.320 --> 11:55.680]  Hello, this is Secretary Tom Ridge of the Department of Homeland Security.
[11:55.840 --> 11:56.860]  Tom, I can't believe you...
[11:56.860 --> 11:59.760]  If you'd like to hear this message in English, press one now.
[11:59.900 --> 12:01.060]  Tom, what happened to Tom?
[12:01.160 --> 12:02.420]  Press one, he comes back.
[12:02.720 --> 12:03.860]  Yeah, we want to hear it in America.
[12:04.040 --> 12:04.620]  He comes back.
[12:04.640 --> 12:06.480]  If you are calling from a rotary phone, please hold.
[12:06.600 --> 12:07.120]  Just press one.
[12:07.140 --> 12:09.300]  So you may hear tips and receive your brochure.
[12:09.340 --> 12:10.220]  I want to talk to Tom again.
[12:10.480 --> 12:11.060]  Oh, here he is.
[12:11.060 --> 12:14.340]  You've taken an important step towards surviving in an emergency.
[12:15.440 --> 12:17.320]  Here's the Department of Homeland Security.
[12:17.940 --> 12:19.800]  We're working hard to prepare our nation.
[12:20.180 --> 12:27.680]  But each of us must be ready to make it on our own, at least for a period of time, no matter where we are when disaster strikes.
[12:28.380 --> 12:32.420]  Stay on the line to receive our free brochure with simple tips that could save your life.
[12:32.420 --> 12:36.340]  Or go to www.ready.gov.
[12:36.740 --> 12:41.480]  You can do something to protect your family and yourself against the threat of terrorism.
[12:41.820 --> 12:44.000]  And the time to prepare is now.
[12:44.220 --> 12:48.240]  If you'd like to receive our free brochure, preparing makes sense.
[12:48.480 --> 12:49.580]  Get ready now.
[12:49.960 --> 12:50.660]  Press one.
[12:51.140 --> 12:57.620]  If you'd like to learn more right away, go online to www.ready.gov.
[12:58.000 --> 13:00.660]  Or press two for a few simple tips.
[13:01.040 --> 13:02.100]  I think two.
[13:02.640 --> 13:04.000]  I guess we can't get an operator.
[13:04.100 --> 13:04.880]  Let's try an operator first.
[13:05.480 --> 13:06.320]  We're sorry.
[13:06.520 --> 13:08.160]  The number you entered is invalid.
[13:08.400 --> 13:09.600]  Please try again.
[13:09.740 --> 13:10.380]  I want a live hand.
[13:10.400 --> 13:12.000]  If you'd like to receive our free brochure.
[13:12.040 --> 13:12.480]  Handy tips.
[13:12.700 --> 13:14.500]  Fight against terror begins at home.
[13:15.400 --> 13:19.520]  With a little planning and some common sense, you can be better prepared.
[13:20.240 --> 13:26.900]  The first step is to begin a process of learning about potential threats, so you are able to react during an emergency.
[13:27.860 --> 13:29.940]  Be prepared to assess the situation.
[13:29.940 --> 13:34.300]  And to use whatever you have on hand to take care of yourself and your loved ones.
[13:34.940 --> 13:40.460]  Now, depending on your circumstances and the nature of the attack, you might do better by staying put.
[13:41.000 --> 13:42.700]  Or it might be better to get away.
[13:43.000 --> 13:46.360]  You should understand and plan for both possibilities.
[13:47.120 --> 13:50.380]  Think about fresh water, food, and clean air.
[13:50.820 --> 13:55.660]  You will need a gallon of water per person per day and food that won't go bad.
[13:56.040 --> 14:01.920]  Keep basic emergency supplies like a radio, flashlight, extra batteries, and a first aid kit.
[14:02.620 --> 14:08.660]  Store heavyweight garbage bags and duct tape to seal windows, doors, and air vents from outside contamination.
[14:09.440 --> 14:16.760]  While there is no way to predict what will happen, or what your personal circumstances will be, there are things you can do now.
[14:17.000 --> 14:23.760]  To learn more about how to get ready now, go online to www.ready.gov.
[14:23.760 --> 14:24.880]  All right, let's just let this time out.
[14:24.980 --> 14:26.340]  Thanks for calling the Department of Homeland Security.
[14:27.840 --> 14:29.820]  Terrorism forces us to make a choice.
[14:30.500 --> 14:33.000]  We can be afraid, or we can be ready.
[14:34.580 --> 14:34.940]  Whoa.
[14:35.260 --> 14:36.020]  Wait, what's the choice?
[14:37.380 --> 14:39.260]  Which should we be, afraid or ready?
[14:39.900 --> 14:41.380]  I figure hedge my bets.
[14:41.540 --> 14:42.780]  I am both afraid and ready.
[14:42.780 --> 14:43.800]  Well, I'm ready to be afraid.
[14:44.100 --> 14:45.360]  But I'm afraid to be ready.
[14:46.780 --> 14:47.880]  How's that for a slogan?
[14:48.280 --> 14:50.600]  That's good, but I don't think you should be afraid to be ready.
[14:50.960 --> 14:53.040]  Sometimes these little beeps turn into dial tones, you know.
[14:53.700 --> 14:54.580]  It does happen.
[14:54.760 --> 14:55.180]  Well, let's wait.
[14:55.340 --> 14:56.880]  I'm not saying that's what I'm waiting for.
[14:56.880 --> 14:58.360]  I'm just saying that's a fact.
[14:58.540 --> 14:59.860]  But that's a soothing sound.
[15:00.020 --> 15:04.020]  It's sort of the sound of our current administration, I think.
[15:04.160 --> 15:05.720]  Isn't that the sound of the Russian...
[15:05.720 --> 15:06.720]  Oh, listen to that.
[15:06.860 --> 15:08.780]  ...the Russian phone melting in fail-safe?
[15:10.280 --> 15:11.360]  That is something else.
[15:11.580 --> 15:14.000]  So, the fight against terrorism begins at home.
[15:14.000 --> 15:15.140]  So, we can't do anything here.
[15:15.240 --> 15:16.720]  We have to go home first before we can do anything.
[15:16.960 --> 15:18.220]  Or either that, or we move in here.
[15:19.200 --> 15:21.560]  No, I don't think that would be welcomed by anybody.
[15:22.660 --> 15:23.820]  And press 1.
[15:23.980 --> 15:24.940]  Ready.gov.
[15:25.080 --> 15:26.840]  Well, if anybody finds anything interesting...
[15:26.840 --> 15:28.760]  Now, has anyone looked over this site and found any...
[15:28.760 --> 15:32.580]  There's all kinds of threats that you're supposed to be prepared against now.
[15:32.640 --> 15:39.260]  Biological threat, chemical threat, explosions, just general explosions, nuclear blast, and radiation threat.
[15:39.280 --> 15:41.920]  It's like we're back in the 1950s, you know.
[15:41.920 --> 15:45.740]  I mean, the nuclear blast is not a dirty bomb.
[15:45.840 --> 15:47.800]  That's a real nuclear bomb they're talking about now.
[15:47.940 --> 15:49.820]  So, the arms race is back somehow.
[15:50.820 --> 15:52.200]  Explosions is particularly good.
[15:53.120 --> 15:54.840]  They basically tell you...
[15:54.840 --> 15:59.340]  Well, there's something about if you're trapped in debris, if there's a fire, if there's an explosion.
[16:00.300 --> 16:01.400]  But there is...
[16:01.780 --> 16:04.540]  The one I was looking at before, yeah, if you're in a moving vehicle.
[16:05.000 --> 16:11.960]  If there is an explosion or other factor that makes it difficult to control the vehicle, pull over, stop the car, and set the parking brake.
[16:12.140 --> 16:13.520]  And they spell brake wrong, too.
[16:13.580 --> 16:14.920]  They spell B-R-E-A-K.
[16:15.320 --> 16:16.900]  Which tells you how literate these people are.
[16:17.060 --> 16:17.400]  Ooch.
[16:18.620 --> 16:19.300]  How do you like that?
[16:19.340 --> 16:20.940]  I found a spelling error just by looking at it now.
[16:21.180 --> 16:23.800]  Is there information on what to do if you're trampled by a horse?
[16:23.800 --> 16:24.740]  No, there isn't.
[16:24.840 --> 16:27.140]  But we'll get into that in a moment, because we have tips about that.
[16:27.280 --> 16:35.440]  But my point is, if there's an explosion or other factor that makes it difficult to control the vehicle, how do you pull over and stop the car and set the parking brake?
[16:35.720 --> 16:37.460]  You have to steer into the explosion.
[16:37.860 --> 16:39.340]  Always steer into the explosion.
[16:40.160 --> 16:41.360]  It's just... it's classic.
[16:41.600 --> 16:44.400]  I mean, this is... there are so many ways to parody this.
[16:44.520 --> 16:45.500]  We just don't know where to begin.
[16:45.680 --> 16:46.520]  That's the problem.
[16:46.700 --> 16:47.760]  That's the problem we're having now.
[16:47.920 --> 16:51.420]  I was reading one section about duct-taping yourself into your house.
[16:51.420 --> 16:57.460]  And the justification they give for this is that terrorists may put junk into the air.
[16:57.760 --> 16:58.240]  Junk.
[16:58.400 --> 16:59.680]  Yeah, the junk.
[16:59.960 --> 17:00.220]  All right.
[17:01.140 --> 17:03.360]  Well, that's the times we're living in now.
[17:04.140 --> 17:05.420]  It's really crazy.
[17:05.520 --> 17:05.940]  It really is.
[17:06.100 --> 17:07.180]  But back to the demonstration.
[17:07.180 --> 17:09.480]  Yes, we were talking about being trampled by horses.
[17:10.200 --> 17:12.260]  A lot of that went on this weekend.
[17:13.220 --> 17:15.160]  I don't know what your experience was, Mike.
[17:15.560 --> 17:22.480]  I had some funny experiences myself, but I understand a lot of people were getting very frustrating and terrorizing experiences.
[17:23.180 --> 17:24.020]  Yeah, I was...
[17:24.020 --> 17:28.540]  My worst experience was being lied to by a police officer, which I'll get over it.
[17:28.880 --> 17:30.460]  Was that the first time that ever happened?
[17:30.560 --> 17:31.120]  No, no.
[17:31.180 --> 17:31.380]  All right.
[17:31.800 --> 17:34.540]  But other people were trampled by horses.
[17:34.860 --> 17:35.100]  Mm-hmm.
[17:35.560 --> 17:38.340]  And beaten and other nasty things.
[17:38.340 --> 17:40.600]  The crazy thing is, none of that was necessary.
[17:40.700 --> 17:59.300]  Not that it ever is necessary, but, I mean, in this particular case, it would have been so incredibly easy to simply have the march like people wanted to do to First Avenue by the U.N., and there would have been so much less of a traffic tie-up, but instead they decided to deny the march and just somehow expect people to get to the rally without walking to it somehow.
[17:59.300 --> 18:00.560]  I don't know what they were thinking.
[18:00.860 --> 18:07.480]  When I came up, 51st Street and Lexington Avenue, the number six stop, was closed.
[18:07.600 --> 18:09.660]  And that's obviously the most logical one to get off at.
[18:09.720 --> 18:12.740]  So they just closed it off, so everybody had to go to different stations.
[18:13.200 --> 18:18.420]  And then, when you were there, the police were keeping you from getting across Lexington Avenue and across Third Avenue.
[18:19.060 --> 18:24.460]  And, I mean, how frustrating is that when you can't even get to the place that everybody is rallying at?
[18:24.480 --> 18:26.520]  It was, you know, extremely frustrating.
[18:26.620 --> 18:27.580]  There was no reason to do it.
[18:27.700 --> 18:31.060]  Now, the first time, on Third Avenue, it was pretty simple.
[18:31.760 --> 18:39.120]  The cops were blocking the street, and a bunch of people just went into, I think it was a coffeehouse, and had a side door and just emerged right behind the cops that were blocking the street.
[18:39.120 --> 18:40.800]  And they were none the wiser.
[18:41.280 --> 18:47.680]  And the second time, we had some help from a BAI listener, in fact, who I won't go into details so he doesn't get into trouble.
[18:47.840 --> 18:51.120]  But he had the right kind of ID and led us through the police barricade.
[18:51.160 --> 18:53.940]  And thanks very much to that person for helping out.
[18:54.400 --> 18:56.220]  And we made it to the rally.
[18:56.440 --> 18:59.160]  We made it to the rally, and there was so much space there.
[18:59.380 --> 19:01.120]  They had wide open streets.
[19:01.120 --> 19:03.720]  They were keeping people from filling the area.
[19:03.720 --> 19:06.800]  And it was just completely unnecessary.
[19:08.180 --> 19:17.140]  Well, just for theoretical purposes, as far as trampling defense against horses, the idea is to swarm the horse.
[19:17.140 --> 19:20.260]  If the horse has no momentum and can't move, it can't trample you.
[19:21.140 --> 19:22.060]  Poor horse.
[19:22.480 --> 19:23.800]  Well, it's not the horse...
[19:23.800 --> 19:25.520]  You know, the horse is being told what to do.
[19:25.780 --> 19:25.860]  Right.
[19:25.900 --> 19:27.840]  The horse doesn't want to trample anybody, I'm sure.
[19:27.840 --> 19:34.680]  But, you know, it's basically the horse's rider saying, okay, you know, plow into the crowd now.
[19:35.440 --> 19:36.720]  And there was no...
[19:36.720 --> 19:41.920]  The crowd that I saw was completely non-violent and non-disruptive.
[19:42.000 --> 19:44.060]  I don't think any Starbucks were attacked anyplace.
[19:44.560 --> 19:47.300]  You know, and there was just no need for it.
[19:47.380 --> 19:55.640]  Well, as I said earlier, I'm the type of guy who probably would believe in shooting most of the demonstrators, but even I was appalled by the police tactics.
[19:55.660 --> 19:58.020]  You're the kind of guy who would believe in shooting all the demonstrators?
[19:58.160 --> 20:00.380]  Come on, I'm the token right-wing Republican here.
[20:00.460 --> 20:00.960]  Give me a break.
[20:01.140 --> 20:02.300]  Well, I don't think any right...
[20:02.300 --> 20:04.260]  I mean, there are right-wing Republicans at the demonstration.
[20:04.640 --> 20:08.900]  That's the thing that bothers me is how, you know, people view this as a leftist thing.
[20:08.980 --> 20:09.340]  It's not.
[20:10.820 --> 20:11.460]  Everybody is...
[20:11.460 --> 20:14.740]  You know, like I said a bunch of weeks ago, everybody hates John Ashcroft.
[20:14.840 --> 20:15.780]  It doesn't matter if you're left or right.
[20:15.780 --> 20:17.040]  Let me rephrase, then.
[20:17.140 --> 20:18.840]  Yeah, you might want to rephrase that a little bit.
[20:19.380 --> 20:27.500]  Although I strongly disagreed with the tenor of the demonstration, I think that the police were absurd and overreacting.
[20:27.620 --> 20:28.880]  What was the tenor of the demonstration?
[20:31.400 --> 20:37.160]  It's inadvertently giving aid and comfort to enemies of the United States, to wit Saddam Hussein and the Iraqi government.
[20:37.280 --> 20:40.280]  Anytime we criticize our own president, we're giving aid to...
[20:40.280 --> 20:41.520]  No, no, no.
[20:41.560 --> 20:42.020]  Well, then how?
[20:42.380 --> 20:42.820]  Indirectly.
[20:43.380 --> 20:43.820]  Indirectly.
[20:43.920 --> 20:44.760]  But, that's what I'm saying.
[20:44.880 --> 20:45.320]  Indirectly.
[20:45.440 --> 20:48.940]  Anytime we criticize or go against the administration.
[20:49.100 --> 20:51.060]  I mean, that argument can be used all the time.
[20:51.140 --> 20:51.860]  And it has been used.
[20:52.340 --> 21:00.940]  I mean, I've seen people in the government saying that, you know, that people from Iraq are organizing these demonstrations.
[21:01.080 --> 21:04.320]  I mean, it's actually like the communist threat from the 1950s all over again.
[21:04.340 --> 21:12.700]  What I'm saying is a cogent argument against the administration's policies is fine, but this is a rabid demonstration of which many...
[21:12.700 --> 21:18.440]  I would say the majority of people there had no idea of any of the details involved in the Iraq situation.
[21:18.660 --> 21:22.300]  Well, how many people do you think really know all the details in the Iraq situation?
[21:22.800 --> 21:23.700]  That's a good point.
[21:23.860 --> 21:24.020]  Yeah.
[21:24.560 --> 21:26.300]  I mean, you know, I'd like to know all the details.
[21:26.380 --> 21:30.280]  In fact, that's part of what this whole thing is about is trying to get more details.
[21:30.300 --> 21:31.440]  Where is the evidence?
[21:31.800 --> 21:33.620]  You know, we keep saying...
[21:33.620 --> 21:42.280]  We're going to prove that Saddam Hussein was somehow connected to al-Qaeda and 9-11, but, you know, the evidence was never even provided to link al-Qaeda to it.
[21:42.380 --> 21:43.380]  There really wasn't the...
[21:43.380 --> 21:43.960]  You know, the evidence...
[21:43.960 --> 21:46.840]  I mean, I believe there was some responsibility, but there was...
[21:46.840 --> 21:48.640]  The smoking gun was never produced.
[21:48.660 --> 21:49.360]  And it could have been.
[21:49.680 --> 21:50.080]  You know?
[21:50.200 --> 21:50.880]  It could have been.
[21:51.240 --> 21:53.660]  So this administration has been relying on...
[21:53.660 --> 21:56.080]  on, you know, keeping information from people.
[21:56.420 --> 21:59.340]  And it really flies in the face of what people want.
[21:59.520 --> 22:00.380]  People want information.
[22:00.520 --> 22:01.320]  They want disclosure.
[22:02.100 --> 22:04.280]  And I think that's what we're seeing here.
[22:04.340 --> 22:07.700]  We're seeing a real, you know, conflict.
[22:08.000 --> 22:11.160]  Well, I'm not going to debate this now because this isn't the point I was trying to make.
[22:11.260 --> 22:18.200]  The point I was trying to make was that I think the police got way carried away of violating people's right to free assembly and freedom of speech.
[22:18.360 --> 22:18.960]  Yeah, absolutely.
[22:19.100 --> 22:20.680]  But, you know, they had orders to do this.
[22:20.840 --> 22:21.460]  Well, obviously.
[22:21.460 --> 22:23.640]  And that's where the real problem lies.
[22:23.800 --> 22:26.540]  They were told, make sure people don't do this.
[22:27.160 --> 22:28.660]  Things that people have rights to do.
[22:28.880 --> 22:32.060]  Jeff is passing around a digital camera with a photograph on it.
[22:32.360 --> 22:34.240]  Do you maybe want to describe what this is?
[22:34.260 --> 22:36.320]  Hold it up to the microphone so our listeners can see.
[22:36.380 --> 22:37.440]  Can our listeners see?
[22:37.580 --> 22:37.780]  Yeah.
[22:37.780 --> 22:40.960]  Those are bobblehead dolls of...
[22:40.960 --> 22:42.000]  Bobblehead dolls?
[22:42.340 --> 22:46.320]  Bobblehead dolls of Bush, Cheney, and Ashcroft there.
[22:46.440 --> 22:48.400]  Yeah, and this was at the demonstration or is this at Toy Fair?
[22:48.400 --> 22:48.640]  No, I'm sorry.
[22:48.640 --> 22:49.540]  It was in my demonstration.
[22:49.880 --> 22:50.020]  Okay.
[22:50.920 --> 22:51.820]  Well, how about that?
[22:52.840 --> 22:53.200]  Wow.
[22:53.600 --> 22:59.640]  Well, you know, it was just really cool because I got the feeling at the end of it all that, first of all, I thought there were so much fewer people there.
[22:59.760 --> 23:02.180]  I thought there was only like 30,000 people in the demonstration.
[23:02.940 --> 23:11.180]  And in actuality, there was, you know, several hundred thousand people and all spread throughout the various streets that they were allowed to go down.
[23:12.320 --> 23:16.840]  And the reason why it seemed smaller was because everybody was being segregated and kept apart from each other.
[23:16.880 --> 23:23.800]  So it really had a demoralizing effect in many ways because people thought that there weren't as many people here as there really were.
[23:24.360 --> 23:28.840]  And that's the kind of thing that, you know, I guess it's a tactic of some sort.
[23:29.020 --> 23:33.920]  But the thing that I really found encouraging was the BAI presence there.
[23:34.420 --> 23:34.840]  You know?
[23:35.000 --> 23:44.680]  And I don't know if you guys were there, if you saw, a lot of people were wearing BAI signs and everybody, everybody was listening to the radio station because we were broadcasting it live.
[23:45.280 --> 23:56.860]  And this was like one of the coolest things I think I've ever seen the station be involved in because here we were covering a major news event in our city that nobody else was covering, at least not to that extent.
[23:57.440 --> 23:59.760]  And the people in the crowd knew about it.
[23:59.880 --> 24:08.560]  They knew to tune to this station, they knew to listen, they knew this was where they could get reliable information and the facts as to where things were taking place.
[24:08.560 --> 24:16.300]  And I think it was a really a proud day for us and I'm very happy to have been part of this place throughout the years.
[24:16.480 --> 24:22.120]  So that's the kind of thing that I think we need to be doing more of in the future is covering things like this.
[24:22.980 --> 24:29.480]  I heard two things that I can't confirm but I heard that the police set up barricades like at 9 a.m.
[24:29.740 --> 24:31.300]  before the protests started.
[24:32.400 --> 24:32.800]  So...
[24:32.800 --> 24:34.780]  Well, they probably set up barricades at 4 a.m.
[24:35.620 --> 24:36.940]  I mean, they're known to do that.
[24:37.120 --> 24:39.720]  Plus, I heard there were sharpshooters on the buildings.
[24:39.920 --> 24:40.640]  Well, there's...
[24:40.640 --> 24:45.160]  It's kind of weird because if it's a protest which is a major crowd, what are they going to shoot?
[24:45.340 --> 24:45.980]  I don't know.
[24:46.120 --> 24:46.560]  I don't know.
[24:47.400 --> 24:50.400]  Well, they were carrying Geiger counters as well or whatever that was for.
[24:50.680 --> 24:54.860]  Well, I mean, that's more understandable than a single bullet at somebody...
[24:54.860 --> 24:56.400]  shooting a single bullet at somebody.
[24:56.600 --> 24:59.200]  Well, they were obviously afraid of terrorism happening inside the crowd.
[24:59.340 --> 24:59.460]  Yeah.
[25:00.080 --> 25:00.740]  I mean, it doesn't...
[25:00.740 --> 25:08.840]  Look, if we're on the side of the terrorists as, you know, they like to say, if we're aiding and abetting them, why would the terrorists attack us?
[25:09.140 --> 25:11.700]  You know, it flies in the face of their own logic.
[25:11.920 --> 25:15.380]  It doesn't really make any sense and I think it's absurd, the whole notion.
[25:15.740 --> 25:19.820]  Basically, you know, I think it's absurd, the whole notion, that you need to get a permit to march in the first place.
[25:20.000 --> 25:24.920]  If people want to demonstrate about something, they should just demonstrate about it and that's part of freedom of speech.
[25:25.100 --> 25:27.260]  And yeah, okay, you might mess up traffic a little bit.
[25:28.140 --> 25:30.100]  That's the way it goes sometimes, you know?
[25:30.200 --> 25:31.160]  You live with this.
[25:31.160 --> 25:32.420]  It's like a snowstorm.
[25:33.300 --> 25:36.840]  Which, by the way, the snowstorm cost more to the city than the demonstration.
[25:37.140 --> 25:37.700]  20 million?
[25:37.940 --> 25:38.460]  Yeah, yeah.
[25:38.640 --> 25:40.820]  And it got better coverage, literally and figuratively.
[25:41.420 --> 25:41.860]  It sure did.
[25:41.980 --> 25:42.440]  Think about that.
[25:42.520 --> 25:46.280]  The snowstorm was covered, you know, Jeopardy was preempted.
[25:46.580 --> 25:47.700]  How do you think about that, Jim?
[25:48.220 --> 25:49.120]  That bothers me.
[25:49.180 --> 25:50.720]  That's a crime against humanity right there.
[25:50.840 --> 26:03.560]  And, you know, they devoted more time to demonstrations overseas, which, granted, got more people, but still, there was this huge thing with hundreds of thousands of people right here in New York and they didn't break away from programming to cover that.
[26:03.560 --> 26:04.060]  We did.
[26:04.820 --> 26:06.000]  And we didn't cover the weather.
[26:06.160 --> 26:13.220]  So that shows you the priorities and that shows you why you should call this radio station to support it because that's why we're here tonight.
[26:13.400 --> 26:14.880]  Well, it's not the only reason why we're here tonight.
[26:14.880 --> 26:25.980]  We're here every week covering all kinds of events, whether they're technological, social, or all kinds of different areas in our changing culture.
[26:26.500 --> 26:28.900]  That's what we've evolved into over the years.
[26:29.320 --> 26:33.500]  And this radio station is here to provide that voice.
[26:33.500 --> 26:35.840]  And it provides a voice to so many different people.
[26:36.060 --> 26:39.380]  Our listeners certainly understand that.
[26:39.660 --> 26:44.580]  Now, we have some new ideas, new things that we're planning and doing.
[26:44.980 --> 26:48.220]  And that's part of what we're offering here tonight for people who call in.
[26:48.320 --> 26:51.460]  Although I should point out, you know, the real reason to call in is to support the radio station.
[26:51.600 --> 26:53.380]  But we like to contribute something ourselves.
[26:53.580 --> 26:59.800]  So what we do is we tend to bring things to the station and say, okay, you know, this is what we can give people who pledge a certain amount.
[27:00.040 --> 27:04.000]  What is the telephone number so people can make these calls of which you speak?
[27:04.560 --> 27:09.900]  212 is the area code which you must dial now even if you're in 212 from what I understand.
[27:10.600 --> 27:10.960]  1212.
[27:11.500 --> 27:12.540]  You have to dial the one.
[27:12.740 --> 27:14.020]  Anybody tested that yet?
[27:14.260 --> 27:14.520]  Yes.
[27:14.520 --> 27:16.220]  And what happens if you don't dial the one?
[27:16.360 --> 27:17.200]  You don't get through?
[27:17.440 --> 27:18.420]  I don't believe that.
[27:18.860 --> 27:19.000]  Okay.
[27:19.220 --> 27:23.240]  1-212-209-2950 is the number to call.
[27:23.420 --> 27:27.640]  Now, before you call, this is what we are offering today.
[27:28.580 --> 27:33.240]  Now, these are things that we are creating even as we speak.
[27:33.360 --> 27:34.960]  They are not, they do not yet exist.
[27:35.240 --> 27:37.100]  They are going to exist in the next couple of weeks.
[27:37.140 --> 27:42.360]  And we're not sure if they're going to exist for much longer than that because, you know, it may be a very limited thing.
[27:42.360 --> 27:52.880]  The first thing that we are, we have come up with and this is something that Jeff and I are going to be talking about is a brand new t-shirt specifically for Off The Hook.
[27:53.160 --> 27:53.720]  That's right.
[27:53.840 --> 27:54.920]  It's never been done before.
[27:55.060 --> 27:56.120]  Never been done before.
[27:56.320 --> 27:57.740]  We've had 2,600 shirts.
[27:57.920 --> 27:59.520]  We've had, you know, various Hope shirts.
[27:59.780 --> 28:04.740]  But this is an Off The Hook exclusive radio show shirt.
[28:05.160 --> 28:06.160]  What do you think about that?
[28:07.380 --> 28:09.500]  Now, you can ask what it looks like.
[28:09.500 --> 28:11.200]  We don't know because we haven't made it yet.
[28:11.200 --> 28:12.400]  But we are making it.
[28:12.460 --> 28:14.520]  And we are committed to making this shirt.
[28:14.640 --> 28:17.480]  And we are going to be making it in the next couple of weeks.
[28:17.760 --> 28:17.940]  Yeah.
[28:18.100 --> 28:18.340]  Okay.
[28:18.960 --> 28:27.320]  And then it'll be printed up and then it will be, you know, it'll be, it'll go to the people, the people who pledged tonight for a pledge of $75.
[28:28.120 --> 28:30.940]  They will be the first people to get these shirts.
[28:31.020 --> 28:37.040]  The first people in the world and maybe the last people in the world too because, well, I don't think it's going to be, you know, ugly or anything like that.
[28:37.140 --> 28:42.160]  But I, you know, it's possible that, you know, we just won't want to make any more after that point.
[28:42.340 --> 28:42.700]  I don't know.
[28:42.800 --> 28:44.120]  All kinds of reasons could happen.
[28:44.160 --> 28:46.520]  We could be at war, you know, and we might not have time to make t-shirts.
[28:46.640 --> 28:48.540]  We might have to, like, you know, make bullets or something.
[28:48.660 --> 28:48.960]  I don't know.
[28:49.740 --> 28:51.140]  Well, you know, you'll have to pitch in.
[28:51.280 --> 28:51.720]  You know that, Mike.
[28:51.720 --> 28:52.600]  Don't scoff at this.
[28:52.900 --> 28:53.760]  Remember OTH, Bullet.
[28:53.880 --> 28:54.980]  I have to volunteer our time.
[28:55.660 --> 28:55.940]  Bandages.
[28:56.960 --> 28:58.520]  Shirts can be made into bandages.
[28:58.740 --> 28:58.920]  Yeah.
[28:59.140 --> 29:01.080]  I just want to say, I've seen the shirt in a vision.
[29:04.820 --> 29:11.260]  If you subscribe to Jim's Visions and you know that they're in all kinds of different colors and things.
[29:11.780 --> 29:15.900]  But, yeah, for a $75 pledge, you'll get that brand new t-shirt.
[29:16.000 --> 29:24.480]  Plus, I believe it's your choice of a video of Freedom Downtime or a one-year subscription.
[29:24.480 --> 29:29.640]  And what you need to do is tell the person picking up the phone at the other end which you want.
[29:29.960 --> 29:32.080]  It's either one or the other.
[29:32.720 --> 29:34.740]  Freedom Downtime or a one-year subscription.
[29:35.520 --> 29:37.960]  That's in addition to the Off the Hook t-shirt.
[29:38.280 --> 29:39.220]  Pledge of $75.
[29:39.600 --> 29:40.820]  We have no calls on the line.
[29:40.940 --> 29:41.400]  Now, come on.
[29:41.460 --> 29:42.620]  That's not a bad deal.
[29:42.700 --> 29:43.420]  That's not a bad deal.
[29:43.500 --> 29:48.380]  Now, for those of you who know that's what you want to pledge and you don't want to pledge anything more than that, please give a call now.
[29:48.480 --> 29:50.260]  212-209-2950.
[29:50.880 --> 29:59.620]  And once a couple of phone lines start ringing, then we'll go into the second pledge level that we have which is, you know, even more spectacular but a bit more expensive.
[30:00.540 --> 30:02.120]  212-209-2950.
[30:02.120 --> 30:05.800]  So, we only do this a couple of times a year.
[30:05.860 --> 30:06.940]  Actually, I think three times a year.
[30:07.700 --> 30:08.960]  And it's necessary.
[30:09.140 --> 30:11.020]  It's necessary because of what you don't hear.
[30:11.140 --> 30:12.100]  You don't hear commercials.
[30:12.100 --> 30:18.080]  You don't hear all kinds of sponsorship announcements like you hear on just about every other radio station in town.
[30:18.340 --> 30:25.840]  What you do hear is information and dissent of all sorts and questions and answers that you just will not hear anyplace else.
[30:25.960 --> 30:27.720]  212-209-2950.
[30:28.220 --> 30:29.120]  That's not a bad response.
[30:29.260 --> 30:30.380]  We have about five calls on the line.
[30:30.500 --> 30:33.920]  So, I keep those coming in while we talk about the second premium level.
[30:34.080 --> 30:38.180]  Before we do that, we should also point out that there may be people out there who can't afford $75.
[30:38.760 --> 30:40.900]  And really, any pledge helps.
[30:41.160 --> 30:42.040]  Yeah, any pledge helps.
[30:42.300 --> 30:52.640]  Just because you don't get the shirt or the film or the subscription does not mean that we are going to chastise you or call you losers or anything like that.
[30:52.920 --> 30:56.180]  We want you to participate in whatever way you can.
[30:56.360 --> 31:02.720]  And if it's a $10 pledge, you know, a $20 pledge, whatever you can afford, every little bit is going to help this radio station.
[31:02.780 --> 31:04.060]  That's how we've gotten where we are today.
[31:04.240 --> 31:05.720]  The station's been around since 1960.
[31:06.440 --> 31:06.820]  1960.
[31:06.980 --> 31:10.740]  That's, you know, 43 years of WBAI New York.
[31:11.040 --> 31:13.900]  And every day of that has been because of listeners like you.
[31:14.100 --> 31:14.620]  Every day.
[31:14.960 --> 31:16.640]  It's unprecedented achievement.
[31:17.820 --> 31:19.800]  And never before has it been so important.
[31:19.800 --> 31:21.900]  We have so many different things going on at once.
[31:22.400 --> 31:26.520]  We have all different topics and projects to work on.
[31:26.640 --> 31:27.100]  And it's really...
[31:27.100 --> 31:31.440]  I feel like we're at the beginning of something really cool and productive.
[31:31.980 --> 31:34.500]  Yeah, there's a lot of bad things going on.
[31:34.580 --> 31:36.300]  There's a lot of things to be scared about.
[31:36.640 --> 31:38.260]  But I feel like we're together.
[31:38.580 --> 31:40.880]  You know, I feel like there's a good group of people here.
[31:41.740 --> 31:50.360]  Last Saturday in the city at night, I was down in the village and just all these people walking around with their buttons and their signs just kind of like left over from the demonstration.
[31:50.360 --> 31:52.620]  You saw it at Javits Center or at the...
[31:52.620 --> 31:54.760]  Actually, I saw it at the Port Authority when I was coming in.
[31:55.720 --> 31:56.780]  And it just...
[31:56.780 --> 31:58.900]  It felt like the whole city kind of went through this together.
[31:58.900 --> 32:04.160]  And it was a really wonderful, peaceful event for, you know, the people that participated.
[32:04.380 --> 32:09.100]  Obviously, there were some people that didn't want to be peaceful and they were wearing uniforms for the most part.
[32:10.140 --> 32:13.800]  But apart from that, apart from that, I think a lot was accomplished.
[32:13.980 --> 32:15.140]  A lot was gotten out there.
[32:16.180 --> 32:22.340]  And, you know, it just feels really rejuvenating to have that happen and to know that this place played a part in it.
[32:22.420 --> 32:23.940]  This place really played a major part.
[32:24.180 --> 32:26.180]  The IMC played a major part in it.
[32:27.100 --> 32:28.960]  And all of us as individuals did.
[32:29.100 --> 32:30.460]  And that's why it's important to give a call.
[32:30.460 --> 32:32.180]  212-209-2950.
[32:32.660 --> 32:37.180]  It was also interesting to see that people were still carrying their signs.
[32:37.420 --> 32:39.920]  I mean, in the Port Authority, still wearing them on their chest.
[32:40.040 --> 32:40.180]  Yeah.
[32:40.460 --> 32:43.060]  No one was like, okay, it's over, it's done, we're throwing them out.
[32:43.680 --> 32:44.940]  Everybody kept moving with them.
[32:45.200 --> 32:47.180]  It almost looked like it was taking place there.
[32:47.400 --> 32:47.580]  Yeah.
[32:47.740 --> 32:54.940]  And the funny thing was, the really cool thing, I think, was that Citigroup, the Citigroup Center, sort of turned into this staging area.
[32:54.940 --> 32:57.140]  The place where we have the 2600 meetings every month.
[32:57.720 --> 33:00.140]  I just managed to get over there.
[33:00.140 --> 33:03.200]  And it was hard to get back over there, too, because after the rally...
[33:03.200 --> 33:05.320]  By the way, rallies, I find rallies kind of dull.
[33:05.500 --> 33:06.180]  I really do.
[33:06.360 --> 33:08.140]  I just have to confess that right now.
[33:08.360 --> 33:12.940]  I just feel like, you know, people are constantly lecturing and it's all different things.
[33:13.180 --> 33:15.220]  I think the interesting parts are the marches.
[33:15.260 --> 33:16.400]  And, of course, that's what was denied.
[33:16.720 --> 33:19.820]  Probably the city agrees that the interesting part is the march, which is why they denied it.
[33:19.960 --> 33:25.800]  But just walking through the streets, seeing all the different people with all the different signs and ways of expressing themselves, that, to me, was the real highlight.
[33:26.180 --> 33:35.860]  And then, after walking all the way back to Third Avenue, where the City Group building is, and going into the lobby area where we have our meetings, it was filled with demonstrators.
[33:36.160 --> 33:39.240]  People just kind of coming in from the cold and resting, having a cup of tea.
[33:39.700 --> 33:41.800]  It was so cool seeing people doing that.
[33:42.000 --> 33:43.820]  And, you know, they weren't being hassled at all.
[33:43.900 --> 33:46.220]  They were just, you know, kind of regrouping there.
[33:46.620 --> 33:51.660]  And that's where I really felt like this was a... the whole city was behind this and, you know, together.
[33:52.420 --> 33:56.340]  You know, it's probably kind of a naive thought, but it did feel kind of good.
[33:56.340 --> 34:02.860]  One thing that really shocked me is that we kind of almost unintentionally stopped traffic on Third Avenue.
[34:03.020 --> 34:07.000]  Just there were so many people that we filled the street and the cars had nowhere to go.
[34:07.360 --> 34:13.180]  And so there were, you know, a post office truck and a city bus and some private cars just kind of stuck there.
[34:13.360 --> 34:14.460]  And they weren't upset.
[34:15.160 --> 34:23.200]  Well, I saw some people who were upset, but, you know, you can't really... I mean, who was driving in a situation like that, knowing there was a huge demonstration?
[34:23.200 --> 34:27.920]  There were even signs up on the expressway saying, demonstration Saturday, don't drive on the East side.
[34:29.200 --> 34:32.080]  And people drove on the East side and they got stuck in traffic.
[34:32.240 --> 34:33.280]  And, you know, that's what happens.
[34:33.500 --> 34:37.220]  But if I was in a car then, knowing that was going on, you know, you were part of history.
[34:37.480 --> 34:37.940]  You know?
[34:38.120 --> 34:38.940]  Yeah, it sucks.
[34:38.940 --> 34:41.560]  You won't get where you want to go, you know, in a timely way.
[34:41.700 --> 34:43.680]  But it's history.
[34:43.900 --> 34:45.680]  And, you know, recognize it for that.
[34:46.440 --> 34:51.500]  And, yeah, for the most part, I think people were, you know, were pretty tolerant of what was going on.
[34:52.400 --> 34:58.160]  One thing, though, that was very dangerous when we were crossing 3rd Avenue, we had the walk sign.
[34:58.420 --> 35:00.580]  There were no cops around, so people were starting to walk.
[35:00.680 --> 35:08.000]  But there were cops on the other side of the street waving buses through at full speed without having any kind of contact with the pedestrians who were trying to cross the street.
[35:08.180 --> 35:13.540]  So I saw a couple of people almost get plowed into by speeding buses that were going through red lights.
[35:14.280 --> 35:15.700]  So that was not very cool.
[35:16.020 --> 35:19.920]  That's something that I think they really need to take a good look at, you know, in their priorities.
[35:20.720 --> 35:23.740]  Okay, 212-209-2950 is the phone number.
[35:23.860 --> 35:25.280]  Thanks for the people who have called in already.
[35:25.420 --> 35:29.800]  Now, we have a second pledge level, and that pledge level is $125.
[35:30.500 --> 35:37.440]  For that, for that, you get something that is really a monumental project for us.
[35:37.640 --> 35:44.500]  And it's something based on the feedback that we got from listeners to this radio show when we asked a few weeks ago, what kinds of things do you want to see?
[35:45.020 --> 35:46.860]  And, Seraph, do you want to talk about this a little bit?
[35:46.860 --> 35:53.040]  And we're going to be giving away some new hooded sweatshirts with a brand new 2600 design on them.
[35:53.160 --> 35:53.560]  That's right.
[35:53.740 --> 35:54.040]  That's right.
[35:54.080 --> 35:54.880]  Hooded sweatshirts.
[35:55.000 --> 35:56.460]  This is the first for us.
[35:56.540 --> 35:58.280]  We've never ventured into this world before.
[35:58.500 --> 36:02.000]  I mean, we've been in this world before, but we've never actually provided the hooded sweatshirts.
[36:02.220 --> 36:04.920]  You know, we've hung out with lots of people that wear hooded sweatshirts.
[36:05.100 --> 36:06.900]  Some of us have worn hooded sweatshirts ourselves.
[36:07.520 --> 36:12.640]  And it's, you know, it's every bit as dangerous as you might think, you know, both mentally and physically.
[36:13.240 --> 36:14.380]  But now we are...
[36:14.380 --> 36:15.000]  Oh, you have one?
[36:15.700 --> 36:17.680]  Jeff, I never knew you were the hooded sweatshirt type.
[36:18.180 --> 36:18.500]  That's...
[36:18.500 --> 36:19.340]  Why don't you put it on?
[36:19.400 --> 36:20.280]  Let's see what...
[36:20.620 --> 36:22.580]  You have a skull on the front of it.
[36:22.660 --> 36:23.620]  Why do you have a skull on the front of it?
[36:23.640 --> 36:24.900]  Are you part of some heavy metal cult?
[36:25.120 --> 36:26.420]  No, I got a good deal on it.
[36:28.040 --> 36:30.220]  This is the actual logo from the Punisher.
[36:30.800 --> 36:31.560]  How about that?
[36:31.660 --> 36:32.260]  Are you the Punisher?
[36:33.120 --> 36:34.480]  I've been known to be the Punisher.
[36:35.160 --> 36:44.900]  All right, well, for a pledge of 125, you can get your own brand new, unique 2600 hooded sweatshirt, which right now are in super limited quantities.
[36:44.900 --> 36:46.860]  They haven't yet been produced, but they will be.
[36:46.920 --> 36:47.840]  You have our word on that.
[36:48.480 --> 36:51.240]  And I'm not sure, you know, if we're going to continue producing them.
[36:51.340 --> 36:53.620]  It depends, I guess, on the kind of reaction we get tonight.
[36:53.800 --> 37:00.460]  Yeah, actually, the people here can decide if we're going to make more of these for the future, for the untrodden masses out there that aren't listening right now.
[37:01.260 --> 37:04.460]  Now, for that, you will also get... it's not over yet.
[37:04.460 --> 37:11.680]  You will also get a copy of the film Freedom Downtime, the Kevin Mitnick documentary, which came out a year or so ago.
[37:12.540 --> 37:17.000]  And in addition to that, you'll get a subscription to 2600 Magazine.
[37:18.000 --> 37:20.480]  If you already have a subscription, we'll just add on a year.
[37:20.880 --> 37:24.160]  All that for $125, 212-209-2950.
[37:24.280 --> 37:25.320]  That's a really good deal.
[37:26.080 --> 37:28.380]  You're getting a lot of bang for your buck there.
[37:28.380 --> 37:36.920]  But most importantly, even if you weren't getting a thing, the important thing is to call up and pledge support for the radio station because that's what makes this magic happen.
[37:37.380 --> 37:39.380]  And there's been a lot of magic lately.
[37:39.700 --> 37:42.000]  And I feel like it's only going to get better.
[37:42.360 --> 37:49.920]  On behalf of the listeners of WBII FM 99.5, I want to ask, what's on the hooded sweatshirt?
[37:50.120 --> 37:51.600]  Obviously not the Punisher logo.
[37:52.060 --> 37:54.220]  Well, no, we're not going to put a skull and crossbones on it.
[37:54.220 --> 37:55.380]  But it's going to be...
[37:55.380 --> 37:58.020]  Well, we don't have the exact logo quite worked out.
[37:58.140 --> 37:59.840]  We're hammering that out right now.
[37:59.900 --> 38:03.680]  But it's definitely going to be a 2600 logo of a sort.
[38:04.360 --> 38:05.940]  It'll say 2600 on the front.
[38:06.460 --> 38:10.340]  And we're not sure if it's going to say something else in addition or have a graphic.
[38:10.640 --> 38:11.100]  But it's...
[38:11.620 --> 38:16.180]  When you're walking around with your hooded sweatshirt friends, you will be accepted.
[38:16.180 --> 38:16.920]  Let's put it that way.
[38:17.000 --> 38:18.220]  You will not be chastised.
[38:18.260 --> 38:21.280]  We're not going to put a picture of like Barney the Dinosaur or something like that on it.
[38:21.760 --> 38:25.740]  Although I understand that's accepted these days in some goth clubs.
[38:26.360 --> 38:27.480]  But never mind that.
[38:27.620 --> 38:29.160]  212-209-2950.
[38:29.340 --> 38:30.360]  I see two calls on the line.
[38:30.500 --> 38:32.100]  We should have 10 calls on the line.
[38:32.340 --> 38:33.700]  We have two pledge levels.
[38:33.880 --> 38:42.220]  $75 for the new off-the-hook t-shirt along with your choice of a subscription or a video of Freedom Downtime.
[38:42.560 --> 38:51.960]  And for $125, you can get the hooded sweatshirt, the brand-new 2600 hooded sweatshirt, plus both the video and the 2600 subscription.
[38:53.220 --> 38:55.320]  It's really quite remarkable.
[38:55.520 --> 39:00.940]  A couple of shows ago, we were just giving away the 2600 video of Freedom Downtime.
[39:01.280 --> 39:07.460]  And that in itself, if you have not seen the film, that's an educational thing to have.
[39:07.540 --> 39:11.980]  We could easily be giving that away for a $100 pledge by itself.
[39:12.700 --> 39:16.120]  Many times videos are pledged for at least that amount.
[39:17.180 --> 39:18.060]  It's not...
[39:18.060 --> 39:22.320]  You can buy the video for less, certainly, but it's the radio station you're pledging for.
[39:22.560 --> 39:28.780]  And you're becoming one of our sponsors as opposed to having Exxon or Pepsi or one of those companies be our sponsors.
[39:28.960 --> 39:30.800]  212-209-2950.
[39:30.980 --> 39:33.520]  I've successfully driven off all the calls from the lines.
[39:33.920 --> 39:37.220]  So we need to get some more people calling in.
[39:37.360 --> 39:40.380]  212-209-2950.
[39:40.880 --> 39:44.380]  Pledge your support off the hook to the radio station.
[39:45.020 --> 39:46.660]  Keep this kind of thing coming your way.
[39:46.860 --> 39:48.500]  And don't be afraid.
[39:48.740 --> 39:50.940]  I mean, people say they want hooded sweatshirts.
[39:51.100 --> 39:53.760]  And I haven't seen anybody calling in for the hooded sweatshirts yet.
[39:53.900 --> 39:54.520]  We should...
[39:54.520 --> 40:00.620]  If this is going to work, we have to have a lot of people calling in to, you know, to try these things out.
[40:01.700 --> 40:03.060]  What is the telephone number?
[40:03.160 --> 40:03.980]  I've forgotten already.
[40:04.200 --> 40:04.580]  You forgot.
[40:04.700 --> 40:07.040]  212-209-2950.
[40:07.320 --> 40:08.380]  That is our phone number.
[40:08.880 --> 40:09.220]  Okay.
[40:09.220 --> 40:14.200]  It's very, very simple to write it down, call your friends, have them call in.
[40:14.480 --> 40:17.100]  You have to dial one first regardless of the country.
[40:17.240 --> 40:18.500]  Yeah, you have to dial one first.
[40:18.640 --> 40:19.060]  That's right.
[40:19.400 --> 40:24.380]  Well, the weird thing is yesterday I was calling Queens and I didn't have to dial the area code.
[40:24.500 --> 40:28.460]  I was calling from Seton Island to Queens and I didn't dial the area code.
[40:28.600 --> 40:29.420]  I forgot to do that.
[40:29.580 --> 40:29.860]  Uh-huh.
[40:29.860 --> 40:31.080]  And it went through perfectly.
[40:31.520 --> 40:31.680]  Wow.
[40:32.100 --> 40:33.920]  Well, that just goes to show you anything is possible.
[40:35.420 --> 40:39.220]  You know, it's possible that eventually it may be something like 2-1-2-0.
[40:39.880 --> 40:41.340]  There's an article here, Leo.
[40:42.440 --> 40:44.180]  There's an article in the new...
[40:44.960 --> 40:45.400]  Wired.
[40:45.400 --> 40:46.360]  I got this from the Wired website.
[40:46.780 --> 40:49.520]  It had its data yesterday morning.
[40:49.780 --> 40:52.960]  It basically says that they're going to add...
[40:52.960 --> 40:57.280]  they're thinking of adding two digits to phone numbers like in the next...
[40:57.280 --> 40:57.900]  by 2005.
[40:58.280 --> 41:00.080]  Well, this is what they should have done to start with.
[41:00.160 --> 41:03.580]  They wouldn't have had to get all these crazy area codes if they had added digits in the first place.
[41:04.040 --> 41:14.700]  Ironically, it's the phone companies blaming the voice-over internet people where a couple weeks ago somebody called up and said that they get numbers and various area codes for a relatively cheap price.
[41:14.880 --> 41:15.400]  Uh-huh.
[41:15.480 --> 41:23.160]  And they say that this is eating up numbers even faster than cell phones and pagers and lines dedicated to computers have.
[41:23.400 --> 41:35.000]  So now the phone companies are accusing these companies of eating up the numbers at a high rate and, oh, we're going to have to go to another numbering scheme and the proposal for the voice-over internet people is add a digit after the area code.
[41:35.300 --> 41:36.600]  Gee, I've heard that before.
[41:36.780 --> 41:36.940]  Yeah.
[41:37.140 --> 41:38.140]  Right here you've heard that.
[41:38.260 --> 41:44.320]  And maybe if people the North American numbering authority had been listening to this radio show we wouldn't be having to dial all these extra digits.
[41:44.320 --> 41:46.800]  and we'd have a scheme that made some sense.
[41:46.980 --> 41:48.100]  This one has two digits.
[41:48.260 --> 41:48.740]  Two digits.
[41:48.940 --> 41:53.440]  Well, yeah, but the thing is you know, we have you know, nobody knows where area code 585 is.
[41:53.760 --> 41:54.060]  You know?
[41:54.180 --> 41:54.920]  Nobody here knows.
[41:55.120 --> 41:55.720]  Someone knows.
[41:55.920 --> 41:56.360]  You know.
[41:56.500 --> 42:01.000]  I know because I've even brought this up before on this show and nobody, you know, remembers where area codes are anymore.
[42:01.120 --> 42:01.380]  Where is it?
[42:01.480 --> 42:02.980]  It's somewhere in upstate New York.
[42:03.120 --> 42:03.200]  Ah.
[42:03.600 --> 42:03.760]  Yeah.
[42:04.120 --> 42:05.540]  212-209-2950.
[42:05.700 --> 42:06.640]  We have one call on the line.
[42:06.720 --> 42:08.160]  We can do so much better than that, folks.
[42:08.960 --> 42:22.700]  No matter what you can afford to pledge, it's important that we hear from you that we make this a successful fundraising drive for this radio station because we're poised on the precipice of all kinds of craziness ahead.
[42:22.820 --> 42:24.100]  I mean, we're at the verge of war.
[42:24.440 --> 42:26.660]  We're at the verge of the economy falling apart.
[42:28.640 --> 42:31.900]  We're at the verge of all kinds of draconian laws being passed.
[42:32.100 --> 42:35.980]  We have this new thing called Patriot 2 we're going to get into in just a couple of minutes.
[42:36.560 --> 42:40.700]  But, you know, a lot of that's good is this place to talk about them.
[42:40.900 --> 42:47.200]  This place to spread information, to communicate ideas, to take your phone calls, all kinds of things like that.
[42:47.900 --> 42:53.600]  And believe me, this place will not exist into the future if certain people have their say.
[42:53.780 --> 43:07.060]  If things like Patriot 2 go forward, if things like Homeland Security continue to gather ignorance and strength, you're going to see all kinds of controls and restrictions that you have not ever seen before.
[43:07.800 --> 43:15.760]  and we are one of the voices here that are crying out to get people's attention and we need to pay bills in order to be able to do that.
[43:15.980 --> 43:23.820]  Radio stations in New York City, 50,000 watt radio stations in New York City are very expensive to maintain and even more expensive to buy.
[43:24.600 --> 43:31.240]  So, God forbid you ever lose a place like this, it's not something you're going to get back very quickly or easily.
[43:31.700 --> 43:35.420]  It's, you know, they launch new kinds of technology all the time.
[43:35.420 --> 43:40.700]  They have the satellite services, XM, Sirius, but you don't hear Pacifica on those.
[43:40.940 --> 43:45.260]  You know, even though there's new technology, they don't permit these voices to be heard.
[43:45.260 --> 43:52.380]  So, you better believe if these radio stations are ever taken over by some other entity, they're not going to be given back.
[43:52.520 --> 43:56.540]  They're not going to be just handed over to alternative voices.
[43:56.560 --> 43:59.840]  They're going to be taken over by the same corporate interests, clear channel and whatnot.
[44:01.420 --> 44:03.340]  You're just going to hear one side of everything.
[44:03.980 --> 44:08.760]  So, that's why it's important to preserve what you have while it's here and we're still here.
[44:08.980 --> 44:10.600]  212-209-2950.
[44:10.760 --> 44:11.640]  Four calls on the line.
[44:11.820 --> 44:13.240]  That's good news.
[44:13.320 --> 44:13.780]  That's good news.
[44:13.860 --> 44:15.760]  We need to build it up a little bit.
[44:15.840 --> 44:16.820]  We're on for two hours tonight.
[44:16.980 --> 44:17.860]  We're on until nine o'clock.
[44:18.140 --> 44:23.360]  We're going to have some special guests joining us after the hour and we look forward to that.
[44:30.680 --> 44:32.660]  and do all kinds of fun things.
[44:32.800 --> 44:33.980]  Again, two pledge levels.
[44:34.100 --> 44:57.380]  $75 for the new Off the Hook t-shirt plus your choice of video or subscription and $125 for the hooded sweatshirt, the 2600 hooded sweatshirt, brand new, and a video as well as a subscription plus any amount is acceptable to help us out and help us reach our various goals that we have.
[44:57.520 --> 45:04.920]  I believe a basic membership is $50 and student and low income at $25 for people who can afford that.
[45:05.200 --> 45:06.020]  It really helps.
[45:06.240 --> 45:06.320]  Yeah.
[45:06.440 --> 45:08.480]  212-209-2950.
[45:08.940 --> 45:10.100]  That's the number to call on.
[45:10.180 --> 45:10.880]  We always get...
[45:10.880 --> 45:13.360]  This is our only show during this fundraiser.
[45:13.880 --> 45:20.340]  We always get people that call in or that write in after the show has aired.
[45:20.520 --> 45:25.320]  They listen to it on the internet and they want to pledge then.
[45:25.480 --> 45:26.560]  Well, you know, you can't.
[45:26.660 --> 45:29.060]  I mean, yeah, you can pledge to the radio station but you can't pledge to Off the Hook.
[45:29.520 --> 45:30.680]  And we're on once.
[45:30.760 --> 45:31.240]  This is tonight.
[45:31.480 --> 45:33.800]  This is the only night that we're going to be on during this fundraiser.
[45:33.940 --> 45:37.160]  So it's really important that people call in now.
[45:37.360 --> 45:39.100]  212-209-2950.
[45:39.500 --> 45:40.520]  And Juntz is here.
[45:40.740 --> 45:43.800]  Juntz has just walked in from New Jersey.
[45:43.960 --> 45:44.720]  How are you doing, Juntz?
[45:44.960 --> 45:45.460]  Pretty good.
[45:45.620 --> 45:45.720]  Yeah.
[45:46.820 --> 45:48.160]  Trouble with the traffic?
[45:48.380 --> 45:50.280]  Yeah, there's a lot of people trying to get into the city tonight.
[45:50.380 --> 45:50.600]  Yeah.
[45:50.800 --> 45:52.560]  Well, maybe there's a lot of people trying to get out of New Jersey.
[45:52.760 --> 45:53.280]  That could be.
[45:53.280 --> 45:58.660]  No offense to our New Jersey listeners who also need to dial 1-212-209-2950.
[45:59.160 --> 45:59.840]  Now, Juntz is...
[45:59.840 --> 46:00.600]  None taken.
[46:00.780 --> 46:01.120]  Oh, yeah.
[46:01.180 --> 46:01.380]  That's right.
[46:01.460 --> 46:01.840]  You're from New Jersey.
[46:01.920 --> 46:03.100]  Everyone's from New Jersey these days.
[46:03.400 --> 46:03.980]  Not everyone.
[46:04.120 --> 46:04.300]  No.
[46:04.420 --> 46:05.280]  Well, a lot more people.
[46:05.280 --> 46:13.800]  But Juntz is one of the main, if not the main person behind the web streaming, not only of Off the Hook, but of WBAI in general.
[46:14.200 --> 46:18.040]  So a great debt of gratitude is owed to him.
[46:18.580 --> 46:20.640]  Now, Jess, I guess you can applaud if you want.
[46:21.100 --> 46:22.440]  It's always nice to do that.
[46:23.240 --> 46:23.840]  All right.
[46:24.180 --> 46:39.460]  Now, a lot of people don't realize this, but for a couple of years now, really ever since the coup here at WBAI, 2,600 and 2,600 friends have been providing the streaming 24-7 for WBAI so people around the world can hear this.
[46:40.060 --> 46:44.440]  Now, that kind of thing costs a ton of money if you do it the right way.
[46:44.840 --> 46:49.520]  But if you do it the hacker way, you can figure out ways...
[46:49.520 --> 46:51.180]  and I'm not talking about anything illegal here.
[46:51.180 --> 46:54.580]  I'm talking about ways of just using technology and being clever about it.
[46:54.940 --> 46:59.160]  And for instance, now we have our stream going out to very...
[46:59.160 --> 47:00.160]  How does it work now, Juntz?
[47:00.220 --> 47:01.340]  Why don't you tell us how the show works?
[47:01.480 --> 47:04.280]  Well, we're split up among a couple of different servers.
[47:04.580 --> 47:05.820]  So where it would take...
[47:05.820 --> 47:10.160]  You know, you'd have to spend several hundred dollars a month for one big server.
[47:10.160 --> 47:14.860]  You can spread it out a bunch among a bunch of smaller ones for free.
[47:15.380 --> 47:18.440]  So right now, you have a radio in your house.
[47:18.460 --> 47:19.300]  Is that how it works?
[47:19.420 --> 47:19.980]  Yeah, basically.
[47:19.980 --> 47:24.360]  It's feeding into a sound card on a computer that's feeding a signal out to one of the servers.
[47:24.360 --> 47:31.260]  And that gets replicated to all the other servers and you're basically connecting to one of those servers and picking up a copy of the stream.
[47:31.440 --> 47:32.200]  So it's like a chain.
[47:32.400 --> 47:33.020]  Basically, yeah.
[47:33.200 --> 47:33.360]  Yeah.
[47:33.540 --> 47:45.380]  And so instead of having one centralized place that charges us a lot of money to maintain, we're basically kind of just jumping around and everybody's sort of pitching in.
[47:45.600 --> 47:46.140]  Basically, yeah.
[47:46.260 --> 47:47.860]  And we get a huge capacity that way.
[47:47.920 --> 47:48.300]  Oh, definitely.
[47:48.640 --> 47:48.800]  Yeah.
[47:49.060 --> 47:51.120]  Many hundreds of people can listen at one time.
[47:51.120 --> 47:55.440]  And during this radio show, in fact, lots of people are constantly listening.
[47:55.600 --> 48:00.660]  We get the stats and we know that we have several hundred people from around the world listening.
[48:01.200 --> 48:07.100]  And those people, by the way, can also be calling country code 1, 212-209-2950 and pledging.
[48:07.140 --> 48:09.340]  Oh, it looks like a lot of people are calling, which is really good news.
[48:10.540 --> 48:14.720]  Now, to keep this going, it's, you know, I think a lot of people take it for granted.
[48:14.720 --> 48:16.120]  And we've had some difficulties.
[48:16.840 --> 48:28.360]  We had a power failure out in Denver, which, believe it or not, this whole thing, because Digital is one of our people out there who provides a great service to us by having a stream up there.
[48:29.460 --> 48:35.740]  And then things bounce over to Live365, which has recently started asking for usernames.
[48:36.040 --> 48:40.800]  We're trying to figure out an alternate way so that people don't have to register usernames.
[48:40.940 --> 48:42.880]  But we're getting a lot of complaints from people.
[48:43.000 --> 48:44.020]  Some of them are kind of nasty.
[48:45.240 --> 48:48.240]  And, you know, I think people just need to realize this is a volunteer effort.
[48:48.600 --> 48:51.160]  This is something that people are doing out of the goodness of their hearts.
[48:51.900 --> 48:58.700]  And if there are people out there that can help make this work, yeah, call Jeff's phone.
[48:58.820 --> 49:01.120]  That's the best way to get our attention.
[49:02.140 --> 49:05.460]  Jones, what is it that we need right now that would make things so much easier?
[49:05.460 --> 49:08.180]  We need people with SIRS with lots of bandwidth.
[49:09.240 --> 49:17.520]  I mean, a couple of weeks ago during the UN Security Council meeting we had, we were using almost 7 megabits per second of bandwidth.
[49:17.740 --> 49:18.300]  And that's a lot.
[49:18.620 --> 49:18.740]  That's a lot.
[49:18.760 --> 49:20.060]  T1 is 1.5 megabits.
[49:20.220 --> 49:22.280]  So that's a lot of bandwidth.
[49:22.280 --> 49:22.960]  And that's what we need.
[49:23.040 --> 49:29.040]  We need people who have access to these big pipes to give us a little bit of their bandwidth and help us spread it out.
[49:29.120 --> 49:49.940]  And folks, that should tell you the importance of this radio station that people are clamoring all around the world to connect to it and using all this bandwidth just to hear what's going on and the fact that they can't tune to a local station in their area and listen to this because it's so rare that you have to connect to a station in a distant city here in New York to hear what's going on in
[49:49.940 --> 49:51.040]  the world today.
[49:51.560 --> 49:57.940]  So if you want that resource to continue to be here, please give us a call 212-209-2950.
[49:57.940 --> 49:58.380]  Pledge it.
[49:58.460 --> 50:04.500]  One of the levels that we've announced if you've forgotten what they are, just ask our tally people they're very helpful.
[50:04.700 --> 50:07.280]  There's a whole lot of them down there and they're all working very hard.
[50:09.200 --> 50:11.820]  It's, you know, we pitch in as much as we can.
[50:11.960 --> 50:13.000]  We donate the merchandise.
[50:13.340 --> 50:14.440]  We donate the bandwidth.
[50:14.860 --> 50:16.880]  We have people donating their time.
[50:17.640 --> 50:25.420]  So what we are asking in return is for people to donate some finances to the radio station itself, none of which comes to us.
[50:25.600 --> 50:26.860]  It all goes to the radio station.
[50:26.980 --> 50:29.800]  It all keeps the radio station going and that is vital.
[50:29.980 --> 50:31.640]  That is so vital in this day and age.
[50:32.120 --> 50:42.360]  Um, now, uh, Junce, we, um, um, basically, so right now we have, um, we have your server running feeding people from different parts of the country for this radio show.
[50:42.480 --> 50:47.800]  But normally, normally it's just, um, it's just one server and then that server bounces over to Live 365.
[50:48.300 --> 50:48.500]  Right.
[50:48.560 --> 50:51.400]  And that's how things go during the, during the normal business day.
[50:51.600 --> 50:51.780]  Right.
[50:51.880 --> 50:52.920]  And that was fine for a while.
[50:53.120 --> 50:54.860]  Unfortunately, we're getting more and more popular.
[50:55.060 --> 50:56.460]  I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing.
[50:56.500 --> 50:56.740]  It's good.
[50:56.820 --> 50:57.080]  It's good.
[50:57.080 --> 50:58.540]  It's just, it becomes more complicated.
[50:58.760 --> 50:58.880]  Oh, yeah.
[50:59.040 --> 51:02.520]  So now we're reaching the limits of, of what we can do with just that.
[51:02.520 --> 51:08.560]  So we, we really need either monetary donations where we can go and pay for a service or bandwidth.
[51:08.560 --> 51:10.460]  If you've got bandwidth, uh, give us a server.
[51:10.700 --> 51:10.880]  Yeah.
[51:11.020 --> 51:11.160]  Yeah.
[51:11.300 --> 51:12.160]  So either one.
[51:12.260 --> 51:16.540]  But, uh, if you're calling with a monetary donation, the number is 212-209-2950.
[51:17.260 --> 51:22.000]  If you're calling with bandwidth, uh, well, just email us, I guess, OTH at 2600.com.
[51:22.140 --> 51:23.660]  We'd, uh, we'd love to hear from you there as well.
[51:24.080 --> 51:26.040]  Uh, but again, those donations are so important.
[51:26.300 --> 51:27.640]  Uh, it, it keeps this place going.
[51:27.640 --> 51:30.840]  And there's nothing better than knowing that, uh, the station is strong.
[51:31.100 --> 51:37.660]  Uh, that we're not prone to all kinds of, of silliness of being taken over and turned into, you know, a jazz station or something like that.
[51:38.140 --> 51:40.900]  Uh, we saw how real that threat was a couple of years ago.
[51:41.400 --> 51:49.340]  And this Saturday, um, in no small part thanks to our new general manager, Don Rojas, uh, who I have not yet met, but I've heard nothing but good things about.
[51:49.500 --> 51:52.860]  And, uh, the spirit here is just unbelievably cool right now.
[51:52.860 --> 51:53.520]  It really is.
[51:53.660 --> 52:00.600]  And, and what we've seen on Saturday, uh, just more recognition for this place than I've ever seen before any place.
[52:00.760 --> 52:11.940]  I mean, you know, with the possible exception of the rallies to save WBAI, the rally in New York City for, you know, for peace had such a BAI presence that, uh, it was just, it was awe inspiring.
[52:12.140 --> 52:12.560]  It really was.
[52:12.700 --> 52:19.740]  And that kind of thing is made possible by listeners obviously keeping the place afloat, uh, not by Exxon, not by mobile, well, no, they're the same
[52:22.860 --> 52:28.280]  uh, and certainly not by any of the, um, the corporate interests that we are constantly, uh, talking about.
[52:28.400 --> 52:32.400]  Not by the phone companies, not by the internet, uh, companies or anything like that.
[52:32.400 --> 52:34.680]  Uh, it's all done by our listeners.
[52:34.920 --> 52:35.940]  It's miraculous.
[52:36.160 --> 52:38.060]  212-209-2950.
[52:38.320 --> 52:38.960]  Please give us a call.
[52:39.680 --> 52:49.820]  Um, also, you know, I've been journeying around the country for the past, uh, five weeks or so, um, calling in from various, uh, parts of, of the country.
[52:50.040 --> 53:00.500]  And, uh, it was, it was really cool, you know, being able to hear the listeners, being able to take phone calls from, uh, you know, Arizona and California and Amsterdam and all kinds of other places.
[53:00.980 --> 53:03.960]  Um, and it's, it's, it's of course great to be back here.
[53:04.620 --> 53:12.400]  Um, but the, um, the really important thing, um, to remember is that radio needs to be local.
[53:12.720 --> 53:15.160]  Radio needs to be, it needs to have local voices.
[53:15.900 --> 53:20.460]  Now, when you travel across the country, you want, you spend a lot of time listening to the radio in the car.
[53:21.020 --> 53:24.460]  And you realize how much of this is not local anymore.
[53:24.660 --> 53:26.820]  How much of it is simply a satellite feed?
[53:27.260 --> 53:40.000]  Now, I have to admit, while, while driving, you know, in, in various places where the only voices you hear are religion, um, and, and, you know, awful music, really bad music.
[53:40.600 --> 53:45.840]  Um, and in fact, I've got some religion to play, which I'll play in a future week because I don't have it with me today.
[53:45.960 --> 53:55.560]  But we, we actually, we heard something so crazy on the radio that we held our, our mobile phones up to the speaker of the car and called our voicemail so that we'd be able to save it somehow.
[53:55.560 --> 54:00.440]  And then we, we turned that into a wave so that we'll be able to burn it onto a CD and play it here.
[54:00.800 --> 54:15.560]  Uh, hopefully it'll sound kind of interesting, but, uh, the, the craziest, you know, religious fundamentalist and, uh, you know, closed-minded opinions being expressed, not to say that all religious stuff is closed-minded, but, uh, when there's nothing else,
[54:15.640 --> 54:25.100]  when there's no alternatives, um, that's when it becomes really, uh, important to, uh, you know, to, to start thinking what else can be here, what else can be expressed.
[54:25.340 --> 54:32.360]  Now, I spend a lot of time listening to national public radio, which I usually, uh, am a big critic of because I don't like what they do to radio stations.
[54:32.460 --> 54:41.620]  I don't like the fact that they take over radio stations everywhere and, and shut down colleges, uh, college voices and turn them into, you know, classical stations or jazz stations.
[54:41.740 --> 54:50.660]  Um, but when you're out there where there's no other voices, the occasional things that they, the occasional talk shows that they have really are a bastion of sanity.
[54:51.180 --> 54:52.780]  Um, but it's not local.
[54:52.900 --> 54:54.120]  It's still not local.
[54:54.560 --> 55:02.160]  When we were driving around, um, in parts of California, we came across some, uh, some local talk shows, um, on, on various radio stations.
[55:02.180 --> 55:07.800]  Not always, you know, things that we would agree with, but just, you know, local in, in, in character.
[55:08.100 --> 55:15.360]  At one point, uh, they had, uh, there was rioting in Oakland because, uh, the, the Super Bowl was over and Oakland had lost.
[55:16.020 --> 55:17.680]  And that, that was the defeat riot.
[55:17.940 --> 55:19.780]  I, I imagine the victory riot would have been a lot worse.
[55:20.120 --> 55:29.400]  Uh, but we were listening to, to radio stations coming out of Oakland and hearing reporters who were trapped in their cars while people were, were basically, you know, smashing things all around them.
[55:29.840 --> 55:39.180]  And it was just, you know, it wasn't a very nice situation, but it was very engaging to be able to listen to what was happening live from the standpoint of somebody who was actually there.
[55:39.680 --> 55:41.960]  And that kind of thing happens so rarely these days.
[55:41.960 --> 55:49.660]  Usually what you have is you have a satellite feed coming from someplace of music from a DJ who's in a different city altogether pretending he's in the same town.
[55:50.200 --> 55:52.960]  And there's just no connection at all to the listener anymore.
[55:53.520 --> 55:58.380]  We were driving in, um, in a heavy snowstorm in Minnesota, uh, late at night.
[55:58.520 --> 56:01.780]  We had no idea what the, uh, what the weather was like.
[56:01.960 --> 56:07.620]  Uh, we were, we were calling those, those stupid numbers they have on the side of the road on, on the blue signs that say on your cellular phone, dial this.
[56:07.840 --> 56:09.780]  And it wasn't giving any information that was helpful.
[56:10.360 --> 56:15.080]  And then finally we found, uh, a local station that was taking phone calls from plow drivers.
[56:15.540 --> 56:15.900]  That's right.
[56:16.400 --> 56:23.720]  Snow plow drivers were calling into this radio station, giving reports on where the roads were, were slippery or plowed or not plowed.
[56:24.240 --> 56:28.480]  And it was just so refreshing to hear something like that.
[56:28.600 --> 56:30.240]  Not the same voices over and over again.
[56:30.340 --> 56:31.700]  Not the same music over and over again.
[56:31.840 --> 56:35.300]  Local voices, local angles, you know, local perspective.
[56:35.880 --> 56:37.740]  And it's a vanishing breed.
[56:37.940 --> 56:39.660]  Local radio is such a vanishing breed.
[56:39.800 --> 56:44.980]  Now, BAI covers a lot of national, international news, but we always have this New York bent to things.
[56:45.540 --> 56:47.420]  And that's something I hope we never lose.
[56:47.560 --> 56:50.140]  When something is happening in this city, we cover it.
[56:50.560 --> 56:54.540]  And, uh, in order to do that, we need to be able to, uh, continue operating.
[56:54.800 --> 56:55.180]  Obviously.
[56:55.620 --> 56:56.740]  It doesn't take much to figure that out.
[56:57.020 --> 56:58.420]  And that's why we need support.
[56:58.560 --> 57:00.160]  212-209-2950.
[57:00.640 --> 57:01.980]  So, um, yes, Jeff.
[57:02.980 --> 57:04.580]  I don't know if people are aware that...
[57:04.940 --> 57:05.260]  ...
[00:03.380 --> 00:04.440]  How to maintain it.
[00:04.660 --> 00:05.500]  You've got to change the oil.
[00:05.620 --> 00:06.500]  You've got to put a little money in it.
[00:06.680 --> 00:07.480]  Same thing here.
[00:08.000 --> 00:12.340]  We need to maintain the radio station so it performs for us, just like this past weekend.
[00:12.960 --> 00:13.740]  Yeah, that's right.
[00:14.200 --> 00:23.280]  Imagine if we weren't around for that, if we were playing canned music or something, it would have made a real difference, a big difference in the way things went.
[00:23.280 --> 00:25.860]  And radio can be a very useful tool.
[00:26.020 --> 00:33.100]  That's why it's always the first thing to be controlled when governments change or whenever something bad is happening.
[00:33.540 --> 00:36.440]  So please make that phone call, 212-209-2950.
[00:36.840 --> 00:41.280]  Let's go into some other stories that have been happening in a time.
[00:41.340 --> 00:42.260]  We haven't been on last week.
[00:42.340 --> 00:43.680]  In fact, we won't be on next week either.
[00:45.440 --> 00:56.720]  I should point out, though, that there's an additional radio program now that we just started yesterday on a different radio station, WUSB in Stony Brook, called Off the Wall.
[00:57.320 --> 01:02.640]  Yeah, it's sort of like an expansion of Off the Hook, but not tied necessarily to technology.
[01:03.280 --> 01:04.780]  You can listen to that.
[01:04.980 --> 01:07.960]  In fact, you can listen to last night's episode on the Internet right now.
[01:07.960 --> 01:09.820]  Well, not right now, but after we're off the air.
[01:11.780 --> 01:21.380]  And that's at www.2600.com, or you can tune in to WUSB, which is 90.1 FM in Stony Brook, New York, on Long Island.
[01:23.060 --> 01:29.240]  Jones, we set that up pretty quickly as well, another web streaming deal there.
[01:29.400 --> 01:35.320]  Yeah, one of the people who helps us out, Brilden, he does one of the extra servers just for this show.
[01:35.320 --> 01:41.760]  So he picked up and basically rebroadcast the stream from USB's stream.
[01:41.920 --> 01:43.120]  And we had a lot of people listening.
[01:43.260 --> 01:44.920]  We had a lot of people from around the world.
[01:45.020 --> 01:46.260]  We got a call from England, in fact.
[01:46.720 --> 01:56.440]  And it's really cool to be able to merge these technologies together, radio and Internet, and just bringing all these people that never would have communicated otherwise.
[01:57.040 --> 01:58.900]  So it's really a cool thing.
[01:59.480 --> 02:07.340]  So that's an indication of how we're starting new things, trying out new venues, and things like that.
[02:07.400 --> 02:12.020]  So we won't be on Off the Hook next week, but Off the Wall will be on next Tuesday.
[02:12.340 --> 02:15.860]  So hopefully we'll be on every week in some context.
[02:16.580 --> 02:17.820]  It's not the same show.
[02:17.940 --> 02:18.700]  It's different.
[02:18.900 --> 02:21.900]  But it's still a voice for listeners.
[02:23.780 --> 02:27.240]  All right, so what other stories have been going on around the world?
[02:27.400 --> 02:31.480]  We have... well, Sarah, if we have some interesting pieces on the website this week.
[02:31.860 --> 02:32.520]  Well, sure.
[02:33.880 --> 02:35.900]  What's probably the most outrageous one?
[02:36.500 --> 02:46.440]  Well, you know, there's this American journalist named Brian McWilliams who managed to fool not only his fellow journalists, but to fool the NIPC.
[02:46.780 --> 02:47.880]  What's the NIPC?
[02:48.060 --> 02:50.420]  It's the National Infrastructure Protection Center.
[02:50.420 --> 02:51.940]  Oh, that sounds important.
[02:52.140 --> 02:59.040]  And they're the ones who released that new national strategy to secure cyberspace, which was just released this past weekend.
[02:59.960 --> 03:11.400]  And they're supposed to be sort of our first line of defense against all of these cyber attacks that, although we've never actually seen one happen, I don't think, you know, are obviously a tremendous threat to all of us.
[03:13.100 --> 03:19.460]  And what this reporter did was he registered a domain name, harkatulmujahideen.org.
[03:20.740 --> 03:24.160]  And Harkat al-Mujahideen is a well-known terrorist group.
[03:24.300 --> 03:30.060]  They've been around for many, many years and been involved in all sorts of real terrorist events all over the world.
[03:30.120 --> 03:32.700]  But they neglected to register their website.
[03:32.960 --> 03:33.580]  Right, of course.
[03:33.580 --> 03:44.920]  And so he registered this domain name last year in an attempt to attract terrorists, real terrorists, to email him as part of a long-term investigation he was doing.
[03:45.080 --> 03:51.680]  And ultimately, he hoped that it would culminate in an article where he would have all sorts of inside information or insight into how these people operate.
[03:53.080 --> 03:56.580]  And he went relatively undetected until just recently.
[03:56.800 --> 04:01.200]  And the reason that he was detected was because he kind of took things one step further.
[04:01.520 --> 04:16.240]  He claimed that his group was responsible for the slammer worm, which, for those who don't know, was the worm that really slowed down the internet for a day or so recently, attacking a Microsoft SQL server.
[04:18.100 --> 04:24.680]  And so he said that his group was responsible for the worm, and he presented some dubious evidence to back that up.
[04:25.080 --> 04:28.980]  And all sorts of people jumped on the story.
[04:29.500 --> 04:32.000]  And the NIPC got involved.
[04:32.240 --> 04:44.400]  And from examining his website and examining these emails that he was sending to these reporters, they determined that he was the real deal, that he really was a representative of Harkat al-Mujahideen.
[04:45.000 --> 05:02.760]  Now, this is despite the fact that the group is located abroad, yet the emails from this reporter who was claiming to be somebody named Abu Mujahideen were coming from America.
[05:04.140 --> 05:07.620]  Now, you see an email coming from America, from somebody claiming to be in Pakistan.
[05:08.220 --> 05:10.240]  You've got to think twice about that, but they didn't.
[05:11.400 --> 05:12.500]  So what was the effect?
[05:12.700 --> 05:13.500]  What wound up happening?
[05:13.500 --> 05:23.340]  Well, the effect was that an article was published in Computer World saying, basically, that this terrorist group was responsible for this internet worm.
[05:24.300 --> 05:27.620]  And, of course, it was realized somewhat quickly after that.
[05:27.760 --> 05:33.280]  People realized how ridiculous it was that it wasn't true, and they pulled down the story, though we still have it on our website.
[05:33.480 --> 05:39.680]  Now, that's interesting how, you know, stories just get eliminated when they realize that it's not quite true.
[05:39.820 --> 05:40.480]  It just never happened.
[05:40.480 --> 05:44.520]  Now, I bet if you contact Computer World and ask them, you know, what about this story?
[05:44.560 --> 05:44.900]  What story?
[05:44.960 --> 05:45.480]  There's no story.
[05:45.620 --> 05:46.340]  There never was a story.
[05:46.620 --> 05:50.020]  Well, we've got the story on our website, which I think is pretty funny.
[05:51.160 --> 05:51.960]  That was a cool story.
[05:52.120 --> 05:54.340]  There was another one, though, about an 11-year-old kid.
[05:55.800 --> 05:56.960]  Tell us what happened with this.
[05:57.060 --> 05:58.140]  11-year-old hacker kid.
[05:58.260 --> 05:59.940]  We've gotten tremendous feedback for this one.
[06:01.000 --> 06:09.100]  This young boy, whose name still hasn't been released, but he's an 11-year-old student at a school called St. Lucie West Middle School, which is in Florida.
[06:10.300 --> 06:17.600]  And this kid, like so many other kids who I've known, and including myself, tried to mess with school computers.
[06:17.600 --> 06:19.380]  He tried to change his grades.
[06:19.680 --> 06:23.980]  And, you know, this is the kind of testing of boundaries that kids do.
[06:24.560 --> 06:31.660]  This is the way you learn right from wrong, you know, what the boundaries are of the authority figures around you and what they will or won't permit.
[06:32.160 --> 06:35.900]  And so, I mean, you know, it's sort of sad.
[06:35.960 --> 06:36.900]  You can really see him doing it.
[06:36.960 --> 06:46.340]  Apparently, he came up with some sort of fib that he had to go back and pick up his lunch or something like that and instead sat down at his teacher's computer and tried to change his grades.
[06:46.500 --> 06:48.400]  Was he successful in changing the grade?
[06:48.680 --> 06:48.900]  Yes.
[06:49.100 --> 06:49.900]  He was successful.
[06:50.120 --> 06:52.640]  He was, though, I mean, obviously not in the long term.
[06:53.300 --> 06:54.320]  What did he change it to?
[06:54.420 --> 06:57.460]  I followed this quite a bit, being an educator myself.
[06:57.700 --> 07:01.280]  And as it turns out, another teacher had seen him at the computer.
[07:01.920 --> 07:07.000]  And when he seemed guilty of something, they investigated and found what he had done.
[07:07.000 --> 07:08.240]  He had changed some reading grades.
[07:09.940 --> 07:15.640]  And they, I mean, as I said, even in my position, I think they, you're going to go on.
[07:15.820 --> 07:17.280]  Well, yeah, what did they do to this kid?
[07:17.600 --> 07:22.620]  Well, they really went beyond what anybody might expect.
[07:22.640 --> 07:24.720]  They have charged him with a felony.
[07:25.400 --> 07:25.880]  What?
[07:26.140 --> 07:32.760]  The felony is an offense to intellectual property, which is some sort of state law in Florida.
[07:34.380 --> 07:41.320]  And they brought him to the county jail where he was eventually transferred to the custody of his father.
[07:43.100 --> 07:46.500]  But they're really taking a hard line with this kid.
[07:46.780 --> 07:51.760]  The principal of the school, whose name is Helen Roberts, has recommended that the boy be expelled from the school.
[07:52.440 --> 07:52.920]  Unbelievable.
[07:53.000 --> 08:00.040]  And an assistant state attorney in Florida named Helen Mancini called the boy's actions a scheme to defraud.
[08:00.180 --> 08:02.460]  She said, It's as much a fraud as anything else.
[08:03.640 --> 08:05.220]  You know, I only wish Bernie S.
[08:05.380 --> 08:09.980]  was here because he could tell us all kinds of perspective as to people who just don't understand technology.
[08:11.120 --> 08:12.320]  It's too bad I'm here.
[08:13.100 --> 08:14.220]  Hey, how'd you do that, Bernie?
[08:15.280 --> 08:17.100]  Wow, you suddenly popped into our board.
[08:17.760 --> 08:18.840]  Just jumped off the train.
[08:19.140 --> 08:22.740]  Jumped off the train and into the BAI mixing board here.
[08:22.800 --> 08:24.180]  Well, you heard that story then.
[08:25.100 --> 08:26.140]  Yeah, it's amazing.
[08:26.140 --> 08:31.360]  I was trying to wrap my head around the whole intellectual property issue.
[08:31.480 --> 08:37.340]  What was the intellectual property here that was claimed to have been stolen or violated?
[08:37.540 --> 08:38.320]  Offended, actually.
[08:39.680 --> 08:40.040]  Offended?
[08:40.220 --> 08:40.560]  Offended?
[08:40.880 --> 08:41.240]  Offended.
[08:41.400 --> 08:43.960]  Offense to intellectual property is what they call in this law.
[08:44.040 --> 08:45.800]  It's offense to my intellect, I'll tell you that right now.
[08:46.500 --> 08:48.060]  Was it the letter C?
[08:48.060 --> 08:48.840]  No, no, I can't...
[08:48.840 --> 08:53.680]  The letter C was changed to an A, and that was an offense to intellectual property, that character?
[08:53.900 --> 08:54.980]  Well, Jeff has an answer.
[08:55.140 --> 08:55.900]  What's the answer to this?
[08:56.140 --> 08:59.840]  The gradebook of a teacher is considered a legal document.
[09:00.080 --> 09:00.600]  Uh-huh.
[09:00.900 --> 09:08.080]  So anytime anything gets tested, the gradebook becomes what you measure everything by.
[09:08.280 --> 09:18.740]  So from the standpoint that they are treating this as an intellectual property, I can understand that does harry a lot of weight.
[09:18.920 --> 09:20.040]  It is an important document.
[09:20.140 --> 09:21.260]  I'll give it that.
[09:21.260 --> 09:33.000]  But to treat a child, an 11-year-old individual, with those kind of penalties and fines and punishments, in my opinion, it goes way too far.
[09:33.020 --> 09:35.540]  This has generated a lot of interest among our readers.
[09:36.240 --> 09:38.120]  One person actually sent us a copy.
[09:38.280 --> 09:42.580]  Actually, a few people wrote the principal some letters and sent us copies, but this one I thought was particularly good.
[09:43.460 --> 09:47.700]  It starts, Hello, Ms. Helen Roberts, which is the name of the principal down there.
[09:47.920 --> 09:55.200]  I think it was probably easy for people to find out all this information because we linked directly to the elementary school website, don't we, sir?
[09:55.380 --> 09:55.860]  Yes, we did.
[09:56.000 --> 09:58.240]  Yeah, it's quite a website it is, too.
[09:58.560 --> 10:02.200]  That's probably an offense to intellectual property right there.
[10:02.900 --> 10:08.500]  I cannot believe that you suggested that the 11-year-old student that tried to change his grades be expelled from your school.
[10:08.760 --> 10:11.760]  Maybe you should think that this is not totally the student's fault.
[10:11.960 --> 10:18.940]  Maybe you should think that your lack of understanding of security in the computer section and in technology in general may be the problem in itself.
[10:18.940 --> 10:31.800]  Students learn by example, and if your administration understood this technology, maybe you would have put emphasis on securing what needs to be secure and not running your grade servers on the open LAN in your school where students may gain access to it.
[10:31.960 --> 10:39.120]  If you read your Security for Dummies book, you will see that the best way to keep something secure is to not provide ways for people to gain access to it.
[10:39.240 --> 10:49.540]  If this student gets expelled because of your incompetence, I feel that maybe the American public should look to privately funded institutions to train the minds of tomorrow and not to the obviously hurting public system.
[10:49.900 --> 10:54.880]  As I can see, your personal office computer, the Dell GX150, is very insecure in itself.
[10:55.320 --> 10:59.600]  You might at least want to secure the principal system before you take a look at your entire network.
[11:00.320 --> 11:01.840]  Signed, the concerned technician.
[11:02.060 --> 11:02.620]  That hurts.
[11:03.620 --> 11:04.620]  I think it's brilliant.
[11:04.840 --> 11:05.440]  I mean, yeah.
[11:05.640 --> 11:09.240]  Show people exactly what it is that their weaknesses are.
[11:09.240 --> 11:12.400]  It's really... it's absurd that somebody has to suffer like this.
[11:12.500 --> 11:18.420]  And the sad part of this is that this middle school is rated as one of the, quote-unquote, most wired schools in the country.
[11:20.380 --> 11:25.760]  But they fail to set any sort of example as to how to treat the technology, how to treat people's use of it.
[11:25.900 --> 11:29.720]  They may have a lot of computers, they may have a big network, but what are they doing with it, you know?
[11:29.740 --> 11:34.560]  I think we need to look at that before we tell somebody that, you know, their school sets an example for technology.
[11:35.000 --> 11:35.840]  Yeah, absolutely.
[11:36.240 --> 11:41.740]  So that's the kind of craziness that's going on in the world out there, and that's the kind of thing you have to look forward to.
[11:41.840 --> 11:42.420]  Please give us a call.
[11:42.500 --> 11:44.340]  212-209-2950.
[11:44.340 --> 11:46.360]  Pledge your support to the radio station.
[11:47.820 --> 11:48.800]  Up to $2,000.
[11:49.040 --> 11:49.500]  Well, that's good.
[11:49.640 --> 11:50.040]  That's good.
[11:50.100 --> 11:53.660]  Hopefully they're still counting down there, because that seems like an awfully round number.
[11:54.840 --> 11:58.380]  But let's keep those calls coming in, because it really should be...
[11:58.940 --> 12:02.600]  I think our goal is around $5,000, isn't it, for the entire two-hour period?
[12:02.600 --> 12:04.200]  That's what they expect of us.
[12:04.460 --> 12:04.900]  Nope.
[12:04.900 --> 12:05.980]  That's what I expect of us.
[12:06.080 --> 12:06.700]  No one's calling.
[12:06.800 --> 12:07.360]  No one's calling.
[12:07.420 --> 12:08.300]  What's wrong with the phones?
[12:08.480 --> 12:10.140]  212-209-2950.
[12:10.540 --> 12:16.340]  Do you know that the police actually were caught cutting our phone wires at the demonstration?
[12:16.520 --> 12:17.140]  Did you hear about this?
[12:17.460 --> 12:17.700]  No.
[12:17.840 --> 12:18.080]  Yeah.
[12:18.220 --> 12:19.800]  There was a Democracy Now!
[12:19.900 --> 12:25.400]  broadcast going on, which I actually saw Manhattan Neighborhood Network, which was really cool, being able to actually see the demonstration on TV.
[12:26.000 --> 12:31.280]  And I found out later that the police were seen cutting the phone lines leading to the broadcast.
[12:31.800 --> 12:36.500]  Now, this is the kind of thing that goes on in other countries in our minds.
[12:36.600 --> 12:38.140]  We don't think that kind of thing happens here.
[12:38.180 --> 12:38.640]  But you know what?
[12:38.640 --> 12:39.600]  It does happen here.
[12:39.640 --> 12:42.300]  It does happen when the media is not respected.
[12:42.460 --> 12:47.680]  And by media, I don't mean NBC, CBS, all those people that do the same thing over and over again.
[12:47.900 --> 12:56.220]  I mean people that actually broadcast information that may not be convenient to the powers that be.
[12:56.640 --> 12:58.400]  That's why it's important to give a call.
[12:58.520 --> 12:59.860]  212-209-2950.
[13:00.100 --> 13:01.660]  We have two different pledge categories.
[13:02.380 --> 13:07.120]  We have the $75 pledge category and the $125 pledge category.
[13:07.240 --> 13:08.400]  For $75 you get...
[13:08.400 --> 13:09.260]  Bernie, have you heard about this?
[13:09.320 --> 13:10.780]  The brand new off-the-hook t-shirt.
[13:11.480 --> 13:13.380]  Oh, I heard a rumor to that effect.
[13:13.780 --> 13:15.320]  Yeah, the rumor was circulating.
[13:15.520 --> 13:18.420]  And we had to quash the rumor and then we had to admit to it.
[13:20.060 --> 13:20.980]  That's the way it works.
[13:21.100 --> 13:22.460]  Did he have a vision of the shirt too?
[13:23.300 --> 13:25.740]  Yeah, Jim had some kind of like psychedelic vision of the shirt.
[13:26.140 --> 13:27.460]  No, no, it wasn't psychedelic.
[13:27.580 --> 13:28.840]  It was more like a vision quest.
[13:29.040 --> 13:31.580]  Sort of like my American Indian roots, of which I have none.
[13:33.600 --> 13:35.400]  That should give you an idea of what the vision was like.
[13:35.580 --> 13:38.120]  So, yeah, off-the-hook t-shirts.
[13:38.280 --> 13:40.000]  We don't quite know what they're going to look like yet.
[13:40.520 --> 13:42.480]  Jeff is one of the main people behind that.
[13:42.500 --> 13:45.520]  And he's got a glint in his eyes, so I imagine it's going to be pretty damn cool.
[13:46.600 --> 13:49.660]  And in addition to that, in addition to that, yes, there's more.
[13:49.660 --> 13:53.880]  You get either Freedom Downtime, a film that you're in, Bernie.
[13:54.420 --> 13:54.880]  Uh-oh.
[13:55.120 --> 13:56.060]  Yeah, well, you've seen it.
[13:56.860 --> 14:05.500]  Or a subscription, a one-year subscription to 2600 Magazine, the Hacker Quarterly, the magazine that deals with all these issues and has been doing so since 1984.
[14:06.280 --> 14:10.660]  If you've never seen a copy, well, you owe it to yourself to at least see what it's all about.
[14:10.660 --> 14:20.080]  So you have a choice of those two items for that pledge of $75 in addition to the t-shirt, the off-the-hook t-shirt.
[14:20.560 --> 14:23.920]  Just simply indicate to the person when you call in which one you want.
[14:24.160 --> 14:34.800]  Now, for a pledge of $125, you'll get the brand new, and Bernie, you'll be excited by this too, brand new 2600 hooded sweatshirt.
[14:35.320 --> 14:36.340]  That is exciting.
[14:36.500 --> 14:37.600]  That is very exciting.
[14:37.940 --> 14:38.380]  The first.
[14:38.620 --> 14:46.440]  I imagine all kinds of people are taking note of the fact that these will be on the street, and people will be walking around with these brand new concoctions.
[14:47.020 --> 14:52.540]  In addition to the hooded sweatshirt, which is no cheap thing to produce, let me tell you right now.
[14:53.320 --> 14:56.040]  That's why it's part of the more expensive package.
[14:56.480 --> 15:06.460]  In addition to that, you get both the subscription to 2600 and Freedom Downtime, the documentary about Kevin Mitnick, the free Kevin movement, the hacker world, and all kinds of other things.
[15:07.180 --> 15:15.440]  And that in itself, I think, is definitely worth getting excited over, if you know those things are heading your way.
[15:16.160 --> 15:17.680]  212-209-2950.
[15:17.880 --> 15:20.820]  Apparently not enough people agree, though, because we have no calls on the line.
[15:20.820 --> 15:24.760]  Not to mention the sheer pleasure of giving those poor volunteers something to do.
[15:24.980 --> 15:26.660]  Yeah, we have at least ten volunteers down there.
[15:26.760 --> 15:29.140]  I was down there before, and it was a crowded room full of people.
[15:29.700 --> 15:34.680]  And we don't want them to break out the card deck again and start playing all those games.
[15:34.840 --> 15:36.440]  We want them to be busy.
[15:36.640 --> 15:41.180]  I mean, they get angry at us later when they're out of breath and everything like that, and they had to answer all these phones.
[15:41.540 --> 15:49.060]  But, you know, after a few weeks go by, the tensions sort of subside a bit, and everybody's happy that we were able to make the Fund Drive a success.
[15:50.240 --> 15:55.680]  And the goal for the Fund Drive, this particular one, is, I think, $1.2 million.
[15:56.180 --> 15:57.420]  It's a staggering amount of money.
[15:57.480 --> 15:58.200]  It sounds that way.
[15:59.220 --> 16:05.000]  But we're going to make it because of people like you, who listen to the radio station and pledge what you can afford.
[16:05.980 --> 16:07.760]  And, you know, it all adds up.
[16:08.160 --> 16:20.720]  If you saw what happened on Saturday, if you saw all the people on the street, not just in New York, but around the world, the millions and millions of people that took part in this, you realize that each one of those people added to the total number.
[16:20.860 --> 16:26.160]  And the total number may have been enough to actually stop something really horrible from happening in the world.
[16:26.160 --> 16:29.060]  I mean, I really think there's a good chance now.
[16:29.200 --> 16:32.480]  How can a war start now with all this opposition to it?
[16:32.960 --> 16:38.560]  You know, it's really going to be something if that's just ignored and they just go ahead anyway.
[16:38.920 --> 16:40.600]  I really think they're going to be on the defensive.
[16:40.840 --> 16:48.080]  But each individual person made a decision to be there, made a decision to, you know, it's always taking a risk of some sort to go to a demonstration or a rally.
[16:48.080 --> 16:49.440]  You don't know how the cops are going to react.
[16:50.180 --> 16:53.580]  And the sum of the total was something simply unbelievable.
[16:53.840 --> 16:55.580]  That's what we're asking you to be a part of right now.
[16:55.700 --> 16:57.740]  212-209-2950.
[16:57.960 --> 17:03.900]  By calling out, pledging your support to the radio station, you'll be a part of a really great total.
[17:04.580 --> 17:08.120]  Really, more than $2,000, hopefully, which is where we seem to be stuck at right now.
[17:08.280 --> 17:10.040]  Well, it's not going to be more if people don't call.
[17:10.100 --> 17:10.560]  That's right.
[17:10.760 --> 17:12.280]  And the phone lines are...
[17:12.280 --> 17:14.960]  Maybe the police have cut these phone lines, too.
[17:15.100 --> 17:15.700]  You know, it's possible.
[17:15.920 --> 17:16.260]  I don't know.
[17:18.080 --> 17:19.320]  But let's assume they didn't.
[17:20.960 --> 17:24.720]  212-209-2950 is the number to call to pledge to the radio station.
[17:25.040 --> 17:25.700]  Keep us going.
[17:25.880 --> 17:28.280]  Keep this show on the air.
[17:28.460 --> 17:31.980]  Keep alternative thought from disappearing entirely.
[17:32.280 --> 17:37.280]  I just want to mention that we take Visa, MasterCard, American Express, money orders, and checks.
[17:37.580 --> 17:38.020]  That's right.
[17:38.120 --> 17:38.860]  And cash, too.
[17:38.960 --> 17:40.100]  But don't send cash in the mail.
[17:40.240 --> 17:41.220]  Just walk in.
[17:41.340 --> 17:42.480]  And walk in and hand it to us.
[17:43.080 --> 17:44.600]  No, that's probably not the best way to do it.
[17:44.720 --> 17:45.580]  People have done it in the past.
[17:45.600 --> 17:46.160]  Unmarked bills.
[17:46.160 --> 17:47.180]  People have done it in the past.
[17:47.220 --> 17:48.520]  People have come with coin jars.
[17:48.640 --> 17:50.220]  That's how much this place means to them.
[17:50.420 --> 17:50.960]  You know?
[17:51.100 --> 18:01.280]  And I know this place means a lot to a lot of people because I've seen them show up in winter's past outside on Wall Street to rally to save the radio station from hostile forces.
[18:01.280 --> 18:03.720]  And, you know, that kind of thing could happen again.
[18:04.160 --> 18:08.120]  And if it does, it's always nice to be strong.
[18:08.480 --> 18:13.780]  To not be, you know, having to scrounge around to figure out how to put things together.
[18:14.620 --> 18:16.180]  It affects the on-air quality.
[18:16.300 --> 18:17.300]  It affects what we can do.
[18:17.420 --> 18:18.320]  It affects our flexibility.
[18:18.600 --> 18:22.360]  And that's why it's very important for us to maintain that strength.
[18:22.860 --> 18:25.340]  Because there's going to be a lot of adversity ahead, you know?
[18:25.660 --> 18:28.920]  And I don't think it's going to be coming from within anymore.
[18:28.920 --> 18:31.500]  I think a lot of it's going to be coming from outside forces.
[18:33.680 --> 18:35.900]  Basically, think the 1950s.
[18:36.020 --> 18:37.660]  Think the, you know, the Red Scare.
[18:38.100 --> 18:38.900]  Multiply that.
[18:39.120 --> 18:41.400]  Add in all the technology that's been invented since then.
[18:41.660 --> 18:45.740]  And you're going to have some pretty effective ways of keeping people down.
[18:45.920 --> 18:46.740]  Keeping people quiet.
[18:47.260 --> 18:51.460]  And, believe me, this radio station is a big obstacle.
[18:51.460 --> 18:57.080]  It's a big, you know, threat to people that want to control the way people think and talk and act.
[18:58.460 --> 19:03.760]  But this place, as long as it's here, will continue to do things like we did on Saturday.
[19:03.760 --> 19:04.800]  Like we do every day.
[19:05.300 --> 19:06.480]  But only with your support.
[19:06.600 --> 19:08.080]  2-2-2-0-9-2-9-5-0.
[19:08.160 --> 19:09.560]  That was enough to get one phone call.
[19:09.640 --> 19:11.480]  You see how much work it takes to get one phone call?
[19:11.840 --> 19:13.440]  We need ten phone calls.
[19:13.980 --> 19:14.620]  Not kidding.
[19:14.940 --> 19:15.240]  You know what?
[19:15.240 --> 19:17.980]  People are really concerned about where they put their money lately.
[19:18.200 --> 19:19.520]  And rightfully so.
[19:19.800 --> 19:24.000]  Between people who invested in Enron and lost all sorts of money that way.
[19:24.000 --> 19:30.740]  And you hear all sorts of things about various not-for-profit organizations that are supposed to be helping people in this or that country.
[19:30.740 --> 19:32.460]  And how the money isn't really going there.
[19:33.880 --> 19:37.300]  WBAI is one of the probably best places that you can put your money.
[19:37.380 --> 19:38.920]  One of the best investments that you can make.
[19:39.080 --> 19:41.560]  Because you're investing in educating yourself.
[19:41.780 --> 19:46.100]  Educating people in your community about what's really going on in this day and age.
[19:46.100 --> 19:49.860]  And it's more important now than ever to know what's going on.
[19:50.000 --> 19:53.400]  And you hear people say that on the major news media.
[19:53.400 --> 19:55.400]  But they mean something different than we do.
[19:55.860 --> 20:02.300]  We're not talking about hearing the latest blather about where our latest troop buildups are in Iraq or things like that.
[20:02.380 --> 20:04.560]  We're talking about what the government is up to.
[20:05.340 --> 20:07.400]  What community organizations are up to.
[20:08.540 --> 20:12.300]  What's going on that's really going to affect your world in the near term.
[20:12.440 --> 20:13.820]  Not just some far off place.
[20:14.560 --> 20:21.540]  And we don't spend this money putting people on vacations or things like that.
[20:21.740 --> 20:23.200]  You could really come to this radio station.
[20:23.300 --> 20:25.180]  And we could show you where the money is going.
[20:25.560 --> 20:27.120]  It's going to keep this place running.
[20:27.260 --> 20:28.500]  And it's an important thing to do.
[20:28.500 --> 20:28.940]  Yeah.
[20:29.120 --> 20:32.340]  And for those of you who think that when I was away for six weeks that was a radio station thing.
[20:32.340 --> 20:34.600]  No, that's something we do out of our own pockets.
[20:34.620 --> 20:39.920]  You know, when we decide to go on the road and, you know, make documentaries or do anything else.
[20:40.040 --> 20:41.700]  It's all independent projects.
[20:41.940 --> 20:48.200]  What we have here is a voice for people to share experiences and things like that.
[20:48.260 --> 20:50.520]  None of us get paid to do radio every week.
[20:50.520 --> 20:52.180]  We just do it because we love to do it.
[20:52.700 --> 20:56.740]  And the same thing for just about all the projects we're involved in.
[20:56.740 --> 20:58.380]  It's something that needs to be done.
[20:58.620 --> 21:05.240]  And they should know that the radio station does not pay $2,600 for those shirts and those tapes.
[21:05.360 --> 21:05.680]  That's right.
[21:05.820 --> 21:06.140]  That's right.
[21:06.180 --> 21:08.060]  All the money goes to the work here.
[21:08.420 --> 21:08.560]  Mm-hmm.
[21:08.840 --> 21:09.240]  100%.
[21:09.660 --> 21:12.860]  Now, Sarah, if you got a phone call for that little spiel, so congratulations.
[21:13.400 --> 21:13.500]  Thank you.
[21:13.620 --> 21:18.400]  Now, Bernie, I believe you can probably get a handful of phone calls by telling us what the radio station means to you.
[21:18.660 --> 21:25.040]  I was just going to ask how I can pledge on the air without losing this phone connection.
[21:25.920 --> 21:27.180]  Well, that's going to be difficult.
[21:27.700 --> 21:31.800]  You'll probably have to use the three-way function on your phone, but then we'll hear all your credit card information.
[21:31.880 --> 21:32.740]  So we don't want to do that.
[21:32.960 --> 21:33.600]  We'll do that.
[21:33.880 --> 21:35.020]  Why don't you...
[21:35.020 --> 21:35.360]  Well, you can...
[21:35.360 --> 21:36.560]  I can do it on his behalf.
[21:36.860 --> 21:37.060]  Okay.
[21:37.720 --> 21:39.800]  Jeff will take all your information from you.
[21:40.260 --> 21:40.600]  I can.
[21:40.760 --> 21:40.960]  I can.
[21:41.200 --> 21:42.420]  Which level did you want?
[21:43.500 --> 21:44.520]  What were the levels again?
[21:45.280 --> 21:47.020]  $75 and $125.
[21:47.860 --> 21:50.880]  $75, you'll get the off-the-hook t-shirt.
[21:51.040 --> 21:53.980]  For $125, you'll get the $2,600 hooded sweatshirt.
[21:54.180 --> 21:58.260]  Plus other items as well, such as Freedom Downtime and the subscription to $2,600.
[21:59.060 --> 22:00.580]  And I want the hooded sweatshirt.
[22:00.720 --> 22:01.560]  And I want to...
[22:01.560 --> 22:09.700]  More importantly, I want to support this radio show because it's meant an awful lot to me and I know it's meant an awful lot to a lot of other people as well.
[22:10.000 --> 22:16.040]  So besides, I would really like a piece of $2,600 attire that's warm.
[22:18.320 --> 22:19.100]  Yeah, okay.
[22:19.280 --> 22:19.940]  No, that's a good point.
[22:20.060 --> 22:23.540]  We've only produced t-shirts in the past and now we're branching out into winter wear.
[22:23.680 --> 22:28.580]  I guess some of the weather we've had this past winter has been an inspiration for that.
[22:29.120 --> 22:31.260]  But people can wear hooded sweatshirts year-round.
[22:31.440 --> 22:32.860]  In fact, some people even wear them to bed.
[22:33.060 --> 22:36.880]  You know, it's the kind of clothing you can never grow tired of.
[22:37.060 --> 22:41.360]  Although other people might, but if you wear it, it can become a part of you.
[22:41.760 --> 22:44.440]  I haven't heard the telephone number people should call.
[22:44.440 --> 22:46.940]  212-209-2950.
[22:47.160 --> 22:51.840]  But Bernie, I'd like for you to tell us, I know you've told us this in the past, but we always get new listeners.
[22:52.920 --> 22:57.540]  What difference has this radio station made in your life in past years?
[22:57.760 --> 23:00.240]  Well, it had a very personal meaning to me a few years ago.
[23:02.640 --> 23:14.240]  This radio program resulted in my freedom a few years ago when I was being held, I think it was 14 months in all.
[23:14.360 --> 23:21.800]  I was held in five different prisons for an offense which the government admitted there were no victims involved.
[23:21.980 --> 23:28.860]  And it just pertained to possessing, not using, just possessing certain technology pertaining to telecommunications access.
[23:28.860 --> 23:48.280]  And were it not for this show and a real rallying of people listening to my plight over the months, months and months, who made a lot of phone calls on my behalf hearing about my situation, I am certain that I would not have been released when I was.
[23:50.380 --> 23:52.960]  So it's something I'm never going to forget the rest of my life.
[23:54.860 --> 24:05.520]  This very radio show made a real difference, not just in my life, I'm sure in other people's lives too, but something I'll carry around with the rest of my life.
[24:05.620 --> 24:17.260]  And it was just the emotional support I got from people writing me, hearing me on the air, which kept me going through that whole ordeal, and other people as well, I'm sure.
[24:17.460 --> 24:30.500]  So I owe an incalculable debt of gratitude to this show and to 2600 Magazine for keeping people aware of just injustices.
[24:30.720 --> 24:32.420]  And there's plenty to go around.
[24:32.560 --> 24:34.240]  Mine was hardly unique.
[24:34.460 --> 24:37.520]  Mine was just well-known because of this show.
[24:37.520 --> 24:41.920]  So I felt very fortunate to have had access to the media this way.
[24:42.300 --> 24:49.720]  Well, the unfortunate part is that, yes, there will be additional stories like yours, maybe even worse.
[24:51.620 --> 24:58.000]  And, you know, I'm really afraid of what's going to happen to people who are in situations like that with all these new draconian laws.
[24:58.000 --> 25:00.260]  In fact, we want to talk about Patriot, too, in just a moment.
[25:02.380 --> 25:24.480]  You know, a voice like WBAI's is so incredibly vital, it may be even more vital in the future when people are in prison for much more minor offenses, when they face all kinds of things like life imprisonment for nonviolent offenses or all kinds of scariness that's ahead,
[25:24.480 --> 25:28.300]  all in the interest of national security and the fight against terrorism and all that.
[25:28.660 --> 25:31.600]  You know, who is going to broadcast this information?
[25:31.760 --> 25:33.160]  Do you think Fox is going to do it?
[25:33.180 --> 25:33.860]  I don't think so.
[25:34.020 --> 25:36.400]  I don't think they're going to take any interest in that whatsoever.
[25:36.700 --> 25:41.380]  If someone is, in their eyes, guilty of a crime, they don't deserve anything.
[25:41.380 --> 25:46.160]  They don't deserve any kind of consideration or treatment, you know, befit a human being.
[25:47.080 --> 25:49.720]  They basically will just ignore the story.
[25:50.580 --> 25:54.860]  And without a place like this, a lot of people are just going to disappear into the system.
[25:55.480 --> 25:57.600]  And this goes beyond the hacker world.
[25:57.780 --> 26:03.580]  You know, the hacker world is only one element of society that's feeling this right now.
[26:03.740 --> 26:13.520]  There are so many other groups of people that are kind of uniting in outrage, and that's what we're seeing a reaction to, you know, day by day.
[26:14.120 --> 26:17.440]  But it's the radio station here that brings all these voices together.
[26:17.940 --> 26:22.400]  And, you know, it would be a different world around here without it.
[26:22.780 --> 26:25.880]  It certainly would be, and a much scarier world.
[26:26.080 --> 26:32.620]  So please keep all that in mind and think about what you can afford to pledge to the radio station, what it means to you.
[26:33.060 --> 26:43.780]  I mean, if I had the money, I would be pledging many times more what the pledge level was, because this place is something that I really believe in, and I know the people here really believe in it.
[26:44.400 --> 26:45.900]  And it's an inspiration.
[26:46.560 --> 26:51.380]  Traveling around the country, I honestly, I stopped at KPFK in Los Angeles.
[26:51.380 --> 26:57.140]  I was very happy to see that station has rebounded and has spirit again, because I saw it once before when it didn't.
[26:57.920 --> 27:10.640]  But apart from those few bastions of sanity and, you know, individual thought and all kinds of alternative ideas, apart from that, there's a lot of blandness out there.
[27:10.760 --> 27:12.980]  And people don't realize that there's no alternative.
[27:13.140 --> 27:14.000]  They get used to it.
[27:14.600 --> 27:17.040]  And if they do that, it's really, really sad.
[27:17.040 --> 27:17.740]  There's no future.
[27:17.880 --> 27:18.400]  There's no hope.
[27:18.400 --> 27:24.940]  So BAI, its quest for peace and justice, I think brings people a lot of hope as well.
[27:25.120 --> 27:27.140]  212-209-2950.
[27:27.580 --> 27:28.900]  That's the number to call the pledge.
[27:29.360 --> 27:39.060]  Just to tie back to the beginning of the show, you can easily spend 75 bucks on duct tape and plastic sheeting, which may or may not work, and you may or may not be home to even use it.
[27:39.300 --> 27:47.440]  Or you can pledge 75 bucks to WBAI and probably do a whole lot better for the world and your community.
[27:47.440 --> 27:48.860]  And even yourself.
[27:49.800 --> 27:54.480]  So once again, our number here is 212-209-2950.
[27:55.100 --> 27:56.500]  Any amount is useful.
[27:56.760 --> 28:01.520]  75 bucks gets you the upcoming t-shirt for the Off The Hook show.
[28:01.640 --> 28:02.980]  And a subscription or video.
[28:03.260 --> 28:04.600]  And a subscription or video, yes.
[28:04.820 --> 28:06.840]  And 125 gets you the t-shirt.
[28:07.320 --> 28:08.020]  That's right.
[28:08.320 --> 28:09.400]  You mean hooded sweatshirt.
[28:09.540 --> 28:10.060]  I'm sorry.
[28:10.320 --> 28:11.400]  The hooded sweatshirt, yes.
[28:11.500 --> 28:11.720]  Hooded sweatshirt.
[28:11.800 --> 28:15.040]  We're not very good at this because, you know, we're not salesmen here.
[28:15.040 --> 28:19.240]  It's really hard to pitch our wares like this, but it's essential.
[28:19.360 --> 28:20.100]  It has to be done.
[28:20.420 --> 28:22.980]  If we don't do this, we have one of two choices.
[28:23.260 --> 28:29.580]  Either we, you know, give the station to somebody else or we run commercials and then we become somebody else.
[28:29.760 --> 28:33.160]  And I don't think either of those is a good opportunity for freedom of speech.
[28:33.160 --> 28:34.060]  I have a question.
[28:34.240 --> 28:34.420]  Yes.
[28:34.560 --> 28:36.740]  What if you only listen to Off The Hook?
[28:37.060 --> 28:41.240]  If you only listen to Off The Hook, this is your only chance because we're not going to be on next week.
[28:41.760 --> 28:43.940]  And the next time we're on, it won't be the fundraiser.
[28:44.480 --> 28:48.980]  And, you know, if you listen to this show on the internet afterwards, well, you know, we're not live.
[28:49.760 --> 28:57.160]  When you listen to us afterwards, we're live now, right now at 8.25 PM on Wednesday, February...
[28:58.220 --> 28:59.180]  All right, I'm lost.
[28:59.260 --> 28:59.580]  Where am I?
[28:59.700 --> 29:00.260]  February 19th.
[29:00.680 --> 29:00.920]  Thank you.
[29:02.240 --> 29:02.640]  2003.
[29:04.440 --> 29:09.580]  If that correlates to the time that you're in right now, Eastern Time, that means you're listening to us live.
[29:09.580 --> 29:11.340]  That means you can call us now.
[29:11.720 --> 29:15.960]  And you won't be able to do that in 35 minutes because we won't be live anymore.
[29:16.120 --> 29:18.400]  We'll be alive, but we won't be live here in the studio.
[29:19.640 --> 29:23.320]  212-209-2950 is our phone number.
[29:23.400 --> 29:24.760]  We have four calls on the line.
[29:24.760 --> 29:28.520]  Bernie, you brought in quite a few calls before, which I want to thank you for.
[29:28.800 --> 29:31.620]  I'm amazed, but whatever works, you know?
[29:31.820 --> 29:32.060]  Mm-hmm.
[29:32.220 --> 29:37.340]  And we also want to ask anyone that called already to get us up to where we are now, we want to say thank you.
[29:37.640 --> 29:45.160]  And we'd like to ask you to call your friends to actually let them know that we're on now and these premiums are available.
[29:45.660 --> 29:45.900]  Mm-hmm.
[29:46.600 --> 29:46.840]  Yeah.
[29:47.060 --> 29:48.660]  212-209-2950.
[29:48.660 --> 29:54.460]  And we have, you know, two levels of premiums for off the hook.
[29:55.480 --> 30:04.140]  But there's many, many other premiums that, you know, if for some reason you don't want those ones, you can ask our tally people who pick up the phone when you call them.
[30:04.300 --> 30:05.480]  You can ask them about those.
[30:05.620 --> 30:10.640]  Or you can pledge something else just to benefit the radio station because that's what it's all about, you know?
[30:10.920 --> 30:14.620]  I really hope people aren't just calling just to get things, you know, in the mail.
[30:14.620 --> 30:15.600]  I mean, it's cool to do that.
[30:15.720 --> 30:24.580]  But your real motivation, your real motivation should be the radio station itself to, you know, to help out to keep us going.
[30:25.400 --> 30:31.040]  WBAI also offers its own specific stuff like a hat, like a cap.
[30:31.220 --> 30:41.800]  It's a baseball cap with a WBAI written on it, a t-shirt that also says WBAI on it, a tote bag, and a coffee mug, which some people here really love.
[30:43.220 --> 30:44.380]  And, um, yeah.
[30:44.620 --> 30:47.640]  So, I think we should be talking about the Patriot 2.
[30:47.800 --> 30:48.580]  Patriot 2, yeah.
[30:48.680 --> 30:51.260]  We have seven calls on the line, so I want to thank those people for calling in.
[30:51.440 --> 30:55.840]  And, you know, it's only three calls away from ten, which is the number I've been bandying about all night.
[30:56.680 --> 30:59.960]  It's just good to see ten calls because we had ten people down there, ten volunteers.
[31:00.240 --> 31:07.160]  If ten calls aren't on the line, that means three people who can't get to the phones as quickly as the other volunteers aren't getting calls.
[31:07.400 --> 31:12.260]  And then they get very sad and, you know, it just sort of, uh, you know, ruins their whole day.
[31:12.440 --> 31:16.460]  So, seven calls on the line right now, another three, and everybody in that room is occupied.
[31:16.780 --> 31:17.520]  And happy.
[31:17.680 --> 31:18.140]  And happy.
[31:18.280 --> 31:19.200]  And we have people to thank.
[31:19.420 --> 31:20.680]  Okay, we're going to thank some people.
[31:21.080 --> 31:22.240]  Remember, first names only.
[31:22.460 --> 31:22.600]  Yeah.
[31:22.640 --> 31:25.080]  And we don't read the street addresses or phone numbers of the people.
[31:25.220 --> 31:25.780]  Spread them out.
[31:25.880 --> 31:27.960]  And, um, these are people who have pledged so far.
[31:28.260 --> 31:31.680]  We should caution the people in the studio that these cards are not sorted.
[31:31.680 --> 31:38.040]  So, we have to make sure that the yes box is checked in the read on air category.
[31:38.480 --> 31:38.560]  Okay.
[31:38.560 --> 31:41.800]  Maybe they should only give us the ones that say read on air to bring down here.
[31:41.840 --> 31:42.600]  Well, they're hurried.
[31:42.780 --> 31:43.900]  They're in a rush.
[31:44.020 --> 31:44.600]  Well, that's good.
[31:44.720 --> 31:45.020]  That's good.
[31:45.080 --> 31:46.080]  We like it busy down there.
[31:46.180 --> 31:47.620]  212-209-2950.
[31:47.900 --> 31:51.480]  So, we want to thank Daniel from Regal Park, New York.
[31:52.440 --> 31:54.700]  Um, we don't want to thank this person.
[31:54.940 --> 31:55.760]  Well, we do.
[31:55.920 --> 31:57.940]  Well, we thank all the people that don't want to be thanked publicly.
[31:57.940 --> 32:02.520]  In fact, those are the people that really are, are, you know, they don't want to know...
[32:02.520 --> 32:03.500]  They want us to know who they are.
[32:03.620 --> 32:04.260]  They just want to help.
[32:04.340 --> 32:04.760]  And that's...
[32:04.760 --> 32:05.640]  I respect that a lot.
[32:05.800 --> 32:08.540]  We want to thank Clinton from Oak Ridge, New Jersey.
[32:10.060 --> 32:11.860]  And, uh, Jesse from Brooklyn.
[32:13.160 --> 32:15.200]  And Michael from...
[32:15.860 --> 32:16.940]  I can't pronounce this.
[32:17.020 --> 32:17.740]  What do you think it says?
[32:21.110 --> 32:21.490]  Hopatcong.
[32:22.170 --> 32:23.350]  Hopatcong, New Jersey.
[32:25.050 --> 32:29.230]  If we pronounce that wrong, we thank you all the more for your forgiveness.
[32:30.010 --> 32:33.050]  Um, we want to thank Elizabeth from Wilton, Connecticut.
[32:34.590 --> 32:35.130]  Thank you.
[32:35.790 --> 32:36.950]  And, uh, yeah.
[32:37.110 --> 32:39.090]  So, those are the ones in my pile.
[32:39.610 --> 32:41.750]  Are we allowed to say anonymous in the city?
[32:41.830 --> 32:42.830]  Was that acceptable?
[32:43.790 --> 32:46.410]  We'd like to thank anonymous from, uh, Connecticut.
[32:46.750 --> 32:47.890]  I'm not going to name the town.
[32:47.970 --> 32:48.770]  I don't know how big it is.
[32:48.830 --> 32:50.690]  He may be the only listener there, and he'll be outed.
[32:51.230 --> 32:53.470]  And we'd like to thank someone anonymous in Brooklyn.
[32:54.890 --> 32:56.210]  And we'd like to thank...
[32:56.210 --> 32:57.070]  Oh, it's a read on air.
[32:57.170 --> 33:00.590]  We'd like to thank Marianne from, uh, Mount Clare, New Jersey.
[33:00.970 --> 33:02.010]  Is it Mount Clare?
[33:02.190 --> 33:03.130]  Mount Clare.
[33:03.270 --> 33:04.690]  Well, they have an empty period.
[33:06.110 --> 33:07.430]  Unless there is a Mount...
[33:07.430 --> 33:08.850]  It could be Mount Craig.
[33:09.050 --> 33:09.470]  I don't know.
[33:10.310 --> 33:13.230]  Well, hopefully the person that types it in will, uh, will know.
[33:13.630 --> 33:16.310]  I'm sure the zip code, the zip code will, uh...
[33:16.310 --> 33:17.470]  Well, I won't read the zip code.
[33:17.550 --> 33:17.770]  All right.
[33:18.530 --> 33:19.250]  Plus, uh...
[33:19.250 --> 33:20.770]  Maybe we should only read the zip code because...
[33:20.770 --> 33:21.270]  That's an idea.
[33:21.370 --> 33:21.490]  Yeah.
[33:22.030 --> 33:25.230]  Well, this person doesn't have a yes or no thing shocked off.
[33:25.270 --> 33:27.050]  So, I'll just read the location.
[33:27.270 --> 33:30.150]  Which is Brooklyn, 1-1-2-2-4.
[33:30.670 --> 33:30.910]  Okay.
[33:30.910 --> 33:31.550]  Very deep for pleasure.
[33:32.030 --> 33:34.990]  Yes, thanks for that generous, uh, support there, 1-1-2-2-4.
[33:35.990 --> 33:37.790]  That's a lot of money, 1-1-2-2-4.
[33:37.850 --> 33:41.730]  We might as well just start addressing everybody as numbers now, because that's what it's going to turn into pretty soon.
[33:41.830 --> 33:42.570]  I am not a number.
[33:42.610 --> 33:43.590]  I am a free man.
[33:43.610 --> 33:44.530]  I've got a couple here.
[33:44.530 --> 33:45.090]  All right.
[33:45.410 --> 33:47.790]  We want to thank Bob from Stockton, New Jersey.
[33:48.230 --> 33:50.130]  Uh, Doreen from Glen Rock.
[33:50.310 --> 33:51.270]  I used to live there.
[33:51.450 --> 33:52.230]  This is both New Jersey?
[33:52.550 --> 33:52.890]  Yeah.
[33:53.010 --> 33:53.150]  Wow.
[33:53.250 --> 33:53.350]  Yeah.
[33:53.990 --> 33:55.730]  Uh, I get all the Jersey ones.
[33:55.850 --> 33:56.090]  Uh-huh.
[33:56.650 --> 33:59.350]  Uh, Felix from New York, New York.
[33:59.530 --> 33:59.770]  Uh-huh.
[34:00.150 --> 34:02.030]  We've got Joanne from Summit, New Jersey.
[34:03.170 --> 34:05.750]  And Richard from Brick, New Jersey.
[34:05.950 --> 34:07.410]  This is a New Jersey night, isn't it?
[34:07.950 --> 34:08.390]  Heavily.
[34:08.390 --> 34:08.850]  Wow.
[34:09.170 --> 34:15.630]  Well, uh, folks out there who aren't in New Jersey, not that I'm saying people from New Jersey shouldn't call, but I know people listen from all over the world.
[34:15.890 --> 34:17.250]  Uh, I didn't hear anything from outside the country.
[34:17.550 --> 34:17.910]  No.
[34:18.090 --> 34:18.210]  No.
[34:18.670 --> 34:21.470]  And I didn't hear very many from outside the Tri-State area.
[34:21.690 --> 34:24.810]  I did have one from, uh, well, no, it was not, I'm sorry.
[34:24.990 --> 34:25.790]  It wasn't outside the country.
[34:26.070 --> 34:26.250]  All right.
[34:26.370 --> 34:26.690]  It was far away.
[34:27.050 --> 34:28.430]  Well, please give us a call.
[34:28.610 --> 34:31.650]  You can, you can call no matter where you are, as long as you're listening to us live.
[34:31.790 --> 34:35.450]  212-209-2950 is our phone number.
[34:35.450 --> 34:39.070]  And, uh, Kevin Mitnick joins us now on the, uh, on the, on the phone.
[34:39.870 --> 34:40.310]  Kevin, you there?
[34:40.630 --> 34:41.170]  Hi, Emmanuel.
[34:41.330 --> 34:41.770]  How you doing?
[34:41.950 --> 34:42.310]  How you doing?
[34:42.910 --> 34:43.570]  Uh, I'm doing good.
[34:43.730 --> 34:45.590]  Well, it's, uh, it's great to hear your voice again.
[34:45.590 --> 34:46.490]  You were on CNN today.
[34:46.630 --> 34:47.910]  I happened to catch you by accident.
[34:48.330 --> 34:49.630]  Yeah, that was kind of ironic.
[34:49.890 --> 35:05.590]  Uh, they called me at the last minute because they wanted to talk to somebody, I guess, who, you know, was a hacker before about this, uh, you know, this big story about 8 million, uh, credit card numbers were compromised, uh, at that, uh, credit card processing company in Nebraska.
[35:05.870 --> 35:14.690]  So, they were talking to me about it, but it was kind of weird because in the middle of making a point about, you know, recurring, recurring billing, you know how that works?
[35:14.750 --> 35:16.450]  Like, you sign up for these services on the internet.
[35:16.630 --> 35:16.950]  Yes.
[35:17.150 --> 35:24.650]  You agree that, you know, they'll bill your credit card once a month, and then 60% of the populace, you know, doesn't ever cancel it.
[35:24.830 --> 35:27.410]  So even though you don't use the service anymore, you're still being billed for it.
[35:27.410 --> 35:27.950]  Right, right.
[35:28.150 --> 35:36.810]  And, uh, I was trying to make the point that, uh, probably a lot of these credit card companies do not, you know, want to bring people's attention to that fact.
[35:36.970 --> 35:42.570]  And, and that's maybe why they're not disclosing the name of the credit card processor because everybody would be looking for that name.
[35:43.750 --> 35:48.610]  Apparently, a rumor was that this processor actually processes like those adult-type services.
[35:49.390 --> 35:51.910]  So, I was making that point, and I was like, cut off.
[35:52.190 --> 35:56.810]  And, uh, I don't know if it was a technical error or if it was intentional.
[35:56.810 --> 35:57.470]  It was weird.
[35:57.590 --> 35:58.670]  It was the first time it happened, ever.
[35:58.670 --> 36:08.450]  I think it was, um, you fell victim to commercial media because it was, I think, 2.59pm on the East Coast and they, of course, couldn't let somebody talk until 3 o'clock.
[36:08.570 --> 36:09.590]  They had to take their break.
[36:09.710 --> 36:11.510]  They had to, you know, sell, sell commercials.
[36:11.830 --> 36:16.510]  And even though you were making a really, really good point, one that I was fascinated by, because yes, that's absolutely true.
[36:16.610 --> 36:17.850]  That's what happens with credit cards.
[36:18.330 --> 36:20.030]  Uh, they would not let you finish.
[36:20.190 --> 36:22.810]  And, you know, it's not just, it's not just people in the hacker community.
[36:23.150 --> 36:25.750]  I've seen them do this to, you know, world leaders as well.
[36:25.750 --> 36:27.990]  It's like, well, we only have two seconds to answer this question.
[36:27.990 --> 36:29.150]  Will there be a war tomorrow?
[36:29.970 --> 36:31.310]  And then they're off to the commercial.
[36:31.650 --> 36:32.830]  That's what really matters to them.
[36:32.850 --> 36:33.770]  That's the important thing.
[36:33.970 --> 36:34.410]  So, yeah.
[36:34.850 --> 36:36.510]  I guess they call it a hard break.
[36:37.070 --> 36:38.150]  Yeah, it was a hard break.
[36:38.310 --> 36:38.570]  All right.
[36:39.030 --> 36:39.790]  Or a hard wrap.
[36:40.330 --> 36:40.850]  It was, yeah.
[36:40.850 --> 36:41.890]  It was a real hard wrap.
[36:41.930 --> 36:43.010]  It was a real hard wrap.
[36:43.130 --> 36:43.410]  Definitely.
[36:43.650 --> 36:43.870]  Definitely.
[36:44.090 --> 36:45.430]  But I think you got the point across.
[36:45.590 --> 36:52.690]  And I think, you know, in this particular case, this story, which we haven't talked about, where a quote-unquote hacker, you know, got millions of credit card numbers.
[36:52.710 --> 36:54.030]  They don't say how they know this.
[36:54.110 --> 36:56.530]  And they won't reveal the name of the company.
[36:56.910 --> 36:58.130]  Oh, I know the name of the company.
[36:58.250 --> 36:59.450]  They released it on the wire.
[36:59.590 --> 36:59.930]  Oh, did they?
[36:59.990 --> 37:00.950]  So, which company is it?
[37:01.150 --> 37:04.010]  It's, God, it's some obscure name.
[37:04.010 --> 37:06.270]  And I had it written down.
[37:06.470 --> 37:06.690]  Uh-huh.
[37:07.210 --> 37:14.470]  I can tell you in a second because it's kind of ironic because the guy that told me the name of the company was none other than Louis DePain.
[37:14.650 --> 37:15.590]  Oh, Louis DePain.
[37:16.210 --> 37:16.610]  Wow.
[37:16.730 --> 37:21.150]  Yeah, he sent me an email and he said, let's see, I'm looking at it...
[37:21.150 --> 37:23.330]  For those of you who saw the awful film...
[37:23.330 --> 37:28.390]  I'm sorry, for those of you who saw the awful film Takedown, Louis DePain was your cohort in that film.
[37:28.790 --> 37:29.150]  Right.
[37:29.490 --> 37:29.650]  Yeah.
[37:29.790 --> 37:30.910]  I'm sorry, what was the name of the company?
[37:31.030 --> 37:33.610]  Data Processors International, DPI.
[37:34.010 --> 37:35.010]  I never even heard of it.
[37:35.430 --> 37:37.130]  Well, they all have names like that.
[37:37.270 --> 37:40.230]  You know, we use a company like that ourselves because we have an online store.
[37:40.270 --> 37:45.630]  So, everybody who takes credit card numbers over the internet has to have some bank processing them.
[37:45.750 --> 37:48.230]  And there's a lot of credit card numbers that go through these companies.
[37:48.230 --> 37:54.610]  So, obviously, they're going to be pretty embarrassed that they were wide open and let all these people's information go through.
[37:55.630 --> 37:58.430]  So, well, it's good that the information finally got out.
[37:59.010 --> 38:07.130]  Also, a funny thing about CNN is I was watching it at 2am and what they do is they show reruns of what they showed in the morning.
[38:07.350 --> 38:09.130]  Well, they show Larry King live three times.
[38:09.410 --> 38:09.610]  Yeah.
[38:09.730 --> 38:14.950]  And at night, they could just play European news, which are never covered in the U.S.
[38:15.050 --> 38:15.790]  They used to do that.
[38:15.910 --> 38:17.710]  They used to play international news.
[38:17.830 --> 38:23.190]  But that only happened after September 11, and that was happening from only about like two months, and then they went back to reruns.
[38:23.290 --> 38:27.010]  Well, if you're lucky enough to get a channel called CNN International, they actually do that.
[38:27.010 --> 38:30.290]  It's much more intelligent, and they treat people like they have a brain.
[38:30.430 --> 38:32.490]  And, of course, you don't get that channel anywhere in this country.
[38:32.650 --> 38:39.010]  On the weekend, you get it on the same channel that CNN Financial News is on, but that's only two days a week.
[38:39.390 --> 38:45.690]  Now, Kevin, first of all, I'd like you to just say a couple of words about the radio station just so we can get some more people calling in.
[38:45.730 --> 38:50.150]  And then we have a story involving you as well, and we also want to talk about Patriot 2.
[38:50.850 --> 38:51.230]  Right.
[38:51.530 --> 38:52.030]  Well...
[38:52.030 --> 38:57.210]  Perhaps you could just get people to call us and pledge to this radio station because it's...
[38:57.210 --> 39:06.450]  I believe WBA or Pacifica Radio serves the public.
[39:07.230 --> 39:18.150]  And I know that Emmanuel has really gotten the word out about my case and my trials and tribulations in large part through WBAI.
[39:18.310 --> 39:25.650]  So I really am a supporter, and I hope that other people out there in the community also will support WBAI.
[39:26.250 --> 39:30.950]  In fact, I remember I donated several books.
[39:31.850 --> 39:37.430]  One book I wrote, The Art of Deception, and we raised some money with that.
[39:37.470 --> 39:38.350]  We raised a good amount.
[39:38.470 --> 39:40.790]  In fact, that was the last fundraiser where you were here.
[39:40.790 --> 39:46.870]  Kevin spent a good hour and a half afterwards just signing books because that was the premium then.
[39:47.670 --> 39:49.010]  And it was great.
[39:49.210 --> 39:52.010]  It was just great seeing all the activities, seeing all the interest that there was.
[39:52.930 --> 40:00.690]  And, you know, that helped build the station to the point where we could do what we did on Saturday where we could do all kinds of great programming and just keep going.
[40:01.290 --> 40:03.290]  We need to replenish that every now and then.
[40:03.430 --> 40:06.690]  Three times a year is basically what it takes to keep this place going with no commercials.
[40:07.290 --> 40:17.030]  So that's why it's so vital that you show your support and basically make a vote, make an investment in this place so that we can keep on going.
[40:17.130 --> 40:20.790]  212-209-2950 is our phone number.
[40:22.750 --> 40:23.470]  And it's...
[40:23.470 --> 40:25.630]  Well, Kevin, now, you have...
[40:26.130 --> 40:27.350]  I should point out Bernie S.
[40:27.410 --> 40:28.050]  is on the line, too.
[40:28.190 --> 40:29.790]  You guys met on the phone.
[40:30.330 --> 40:32.450]  We can actually legally speak to each other now.
[40:32.570 --> 40:32.690]  Yeah.
[40:32.690 --> 40:33.030]  That's great.
[40:33.290 --> 40:39.650]  A couple of weeks ago, I was out somewhere, I think in California, and you two were on the phone for the first time on the radio station.
[40:39.650 --> 40:41.530]  It was really cool getting everybody together.
[40:41.530 --> 40:42.050]  Yeah.
[40:43.070 --> 40:43.430]  So...
[40:43.430 --> 40:45.650]  Hey, Emmanuel, just in...
[40:45.650 --> 40:49.370]  Because I know you guys have, what, about 25 minutes left in the air time?
[40:49.550 --> 40:49.650]  Mm-hmm.
[40:49.650 --> 40:49.670]  Yeah.
[40:49.870 --> 40:56.690]  Because I'll tell you what, if you want, I'll donate five books to WBAI now.
[40:56.970 --> 41:04.410]  So if you want to auction those off on the air now for contributions, I will contribute five books so you can do that.
[41:04.610 --> 41:06.290]  Well, okay, we'll figure out a way to do that.
[41:06.390 --> 41:07.090]  I don't know...
[41:07.490 --> 41:08.810]  I can run back and tell them.
[41:08.810 --> 41:11.810]  Well, it's a little bit more bureaucratic than that.
[41:11.970 --> 41:17.270]  It's got to be approved by the tally people, not by the person in charge of the premium.
[41:17.470 --> 41:23.110]  So if there's somebody back there that can do that and approve this, we can maybe set something up in 25 minutes.
[41:23.270 --> 41:27.790]  Otherwise, if we can't, we'll certainly hold over until the next fundraiser and do something with it then.
[41:27.890 --> 41:27.970]  Yeah.
[41:27.970 --> 41:28.430]  But thanks, Kevin.
[41:28.530 --> 41:31.270]  Thanks so much for your generosity there.
[41:31.530 --> 41:31.810]  Yeah.
[41:31.870 --> 41:33.050]  And by the way, hi, Bernie.
[41:33.350 --> 41:41.170]  And by the way, Emmanuel, another interesting note is, you know I started Defensive Thinking, a new security company.
[41:41.530 --> 41:49.970]  And, of course, I'm sure everybody's heard the news that someone had exploited a vulnerability in Microsoft IIS and was able to upload a file.
[41:50.330 --> 41:55.630]  And then they posted a link to this in a form that we have and sent it to the media.
[41:55.870 --> 42:01.030]  And it was kind of funny because I had no direct dealings with this particular server.
[42:01.190 --> 42:07.550]  But people thought that since it was Kevin Mitnick's company that that would be a good thing to hack to become King of the Hill.
[42:07.670 --> 42:14.650]  But what's more interesting is our website has been under denial of service attack for the last couple days.
[42:15.050 --> 42:15.230]  Really?
[42:15.470 --> 42:15.770]  Yeah.
[42:15.770 --> 42:15.790]  Yeah.
[42:16.090 --> 42:17.950]  So somebody has really...
[42:17.950 --> 42:22.810]  I think they're really after the media publicity or something.
[42:24.470 --> 42:27.970]  And so they've been causing some problems.
[42:28.410 --> 42:36.250]  Well, what I'm going to do is I'm just going to, rather than have it hosted in-house by volunteers, I'm just going to send it over to some web hosting company.
[42:37.130 --> 42:41.230]  So I'm looking for one now so they can host the site.
[42:41.430 --> 42:47.190]  Well, you see, it's important to note that, you know, people who do this, anybody can be destructive.
[42:47.670 --> 42:49.210]  Anybody can break a window.
[42:49.450 --> 42:50.890]  Anybody can cause mayhem.
[42:51.030 --> 42:52.630]  It doesn't take much in the way of intelligence.
[42:52.770 --> 42:54.030]  And the same goes for the Internet.
[42:54.290 --> 42:56.450]  It doesn't take much to knock something off the net.
[42:56.510 --> 42:58.150]  It takes a lot to build something, though.
[42:58.370 --> 43:04.270]  And that's where I think, you know, real hacking comes in, is building something, is discovering things, designing things.
[43:04.270 --> 43:12.830]  So if somebody out there is under the mistaken belief that by taking down Kevin's website, you're somehow the king of the hacker world.
[43:12.930 --> 43:14.090]  No, it doesn't work that way.
[43:14.230 --> 43:15.590]  It does not work that way at all.
[43:15.670 --> 43:21.770]  More likely you're just somebody that can't deal with different thoughts and opinions and feel threatened by anything having to do with that.
[43:22.750 --> 43:31.490]  Kevin, if you need help with, you know, tracking it down or stopping it or something like that, I'm sure there's many people here that will write in to help out with that.
[43:31.490 --> 43:38.850]  Yeah, what was interesting is that UUNet, who was the provider of the company's bandwidth that we were using, because it wasn't defensive thinking.
[43:38.990 --> 43:42.670]  It was the building that we're in.
[43:42.770 --> 43:45.790]  It's their services provided by UUNet.
[43:45.790 --> 43:58.130]  And UUNet, actually, the attack was so significant, they actually had to block, they actually had difficulty stopping the attack at the upstream.
[44:00.920 --> 44:07.340]  There was like one or two machines that was doing what they call a SIN attack at port 80.
[44:07.340 --> 44:11.540]  And it's kind of interesting because port 80 is usually a port that you want to have open.
[44:12.040 --> 44:17.860]  Usually, if they do it to another port, you can just close the port, and that's, you know, and that's a good way to minimize the attack.
[44:19.120 --> 44:21.260]  So, UUNet, actually, it affected that.
[44:21.440 --> 44:22.280]  So it was kind of interesting.
[44:22.820 --> 44:29.060]  Well, now, we have a limited amount of time, so let's quickly talk about what we'd like to do with you, Kevin.
[44:29.480 --> 44:32.640]  And then we've got to get into, we've been promoting this all night, Patriot 2.
[44:32.640 --> 44:42.820]  But, Kevin, now, you've been, you were basically finally freed from the restrictions that you were under for the last three years on January 21st, I believe.
[44:43.480 --> 44:45.260]  You were allowed to use the Internet.
[44:45.260 --> 44:47.340]  You were allowed to talk to people like Bernie S.
[44:48.860 --> 44:56.180]  And, you know, it's really, it's great that you're able to, you know, to really be free as much as freedom means these days.
[44:57.320 --> 44:58.340]  That's a good point.
[44:58.540 --> 44:58.680]  Yeah.
[44:59.520 --> 45:07.100]  One thing that we've been toying with, the idea that something we'd like to do that's perhaps a bit more fun, is to have a celebration of sorts.
[45:08.120 --> 45:10.020]  Tell us something about what you'd like to do, Kevin.
[45:10.660 --> 45:14.560]  I would definitely like, I'd like to throw a party where everybody is invited.
[45:14.920 --> 45:21.420]  And I don't know where the proper venue would be, because, you know, there's an issue of the expense of traveling.
[45:21.420 --> 45:37.160]  And I was either thinking of throwing it in, you know, having it in New York, where, you know, 2600 is, or having it in Las Vegas, where my family is, but trying to coordinate it with another event that computer enthusiasts travel to.
[45:37.460 --> 45:46.420]  And the one that came to mind was DEFCON, of course, because a lot of people travel to that, and they also travel to the conferences that you put on, Emmanuel.
[45:46.600 --> 45:48.260]  But, unfortunately, you're not doing one this year.
[45:48.500 --> 45:48.760]  Right.
[45:48.860 --> 45:52.380]  It would be perfect if one was happening this year, because then it could be simultaneous.
[45:52.760 --> 45:54.540]  You know, it could be in conjunction with that.
[45:54.780 --> 45:54.980]  Mm-hmm.
[45:55.500 --> 46:03.900]  So what I'm hoping to do is, you know, throw a great party, you know, open bar, food, catered food, and some entertainment.
[46:03.900 --> 46:05.740]  Maybe we could have you as an entertainment event.
[46:06.160 --> 46:10.120]  Well, you know, I can be entertaining in crowds sometimes, but I think you can probably do better.
[46:10.620 --> 46:17.580]  I know there are musical groups, musicians, all kinds of people out there who have followed your case and supported you.
[46:17.800 --> 46:23.660]  And maybe this is a good time to ask any of them, would you be interested in being part of something like this?
[46:23.840 --> 46:30.580]  All we basically need to do is cover the expense of the place, and, you know, and whatever we have to do to make this happen.
[46:30.780 --> 46:32.900]  We just basically don't want to lose money on it.
[46:32.900 --> 46:34.080]  We want to, you know, break even.
[46:35.160 --> 46:35.520]  Exactly.
[46:35.720 --> 46:44.820]  That's the whole idea is we want to either raise the funds or set up some sort of structure where, you know, people purchase tickets, and the whole idea is to break even.
[46:44.980 --> 46:45.200]  Right.
[46:45.220 --> 46:50.920]  So if someone out there knows of a place or has a place that's big enough to hold, what do you think, several hundred people?
[46:51.600 --> 46:52.540]  Well, you'd hope so.
[46:52.660 --> 46:53.440]  Several thousand people?
[46:54.560 --> 46:58.600]  You'd hope so, because everybody would, you know, be invited, you know, friend or foe.
[46:58.820 --> 46:59.020]  Yeah.
[46:59.020 --> 47:06.600]  And the whole idea is it would be a great celebration and a great way to, you know, network with other people.
[47:06.860 --> 47:07.180]  Mm-hmm.
[47:07.520 --> 47:10.640]  Well, that's definitely something that I would be interested in doing.
[47:10.640 --> 47:22.000]  And if someone out there either wants to add to the program or to the venue or something like that, contact us, OTH at 2600.com, with your ideas, thoughts.
[47:22.000 --> 47:27.840]  And, you know, we'd like to do it in New York, but if it's, you know, someplace else, we're willing to listen to that as well.
[47:28.880 --> 47:30.080]  I think it would be great fun.
[47:30.180 --> 47:36.180]  And, you know, it's good to celebrate every now and then to, you know, to sort of realize that good things are happening.
[47:36.460 --> 47:36.620]  Yeah.
[47:36.620 --> 47:39.800]  We always talk about the horror stories and all the things that are going bad.
[47:39.800 --> 47:46.080]  So it would be actually a change of pace to actually have a celebration.
[47:46.080 --> 47:55.220]  And I think all my supporters who have been there for me throughout the years, it would be a great, you know, a great opportunity for everybody.
[47:55.560 --> 47:56.420]  Yeah, absolutely.
[47:56.900 --> 48:02.180]  How are you adjusting now, Kevin, to your, you found, I guess we'll call it freedom.
[48:03.460 --> 48:05.280]  It's, I'm adjusting fine.
[48:05.460 --> 48:06.780]  I've been, I've been extremely busy.
[48:07.160 --> 48:10.580]  I was just in Houston for the last few days.
[48:10.580 --> 48:13.940]  I was actually doing a webcast with a company called NetIQ.
[48:13.940 --> 48:16.560]  And if you're interested in watching it, you can go to their website.
[48:16.560 --> 48:18.340]  It was kind of, it was kind of interesting.
[48:18.340 --> 48:21.180]  It was talking about social engineering and stuff like that.
[48:21.300 --> 48:29.880]  And I've been, you know, pretty much being, you know, my livelihood has pretty much been working with defensive thinking and doing speaking engagements.
[48:29.880 --> 48:33.400]  And I haven't really had any time for any really free time.
[48:33.540 --> 48:38.280]  And all my internet usage is really just reading and responding to email.
[48:38.580 --> 48:43.440]  Literally, my email queue is backed up to 1,794 messages.
[48:45.060 --> 48:46.900]  You know, that's not that many, you know.
[48:47.200 --> 48:48.120]  That's not that many.
[48:49.660 --> 48:50.300]  It isn't.
[48:50.380 --> 48:51.620]  No, I'm over 10,000 myself.
[48:52.340 --> 48:53.980]  Well, do you want an extra 1,700?
[48:54.840 --> 48:55.920]  Well, not really, no.
[48:56.120 --> 48:56.360]  Okay.
[48:56.580 --> 49:02.740]  I just want to, I want to apologize to all the people I haven't replied to, you know, within five years, I'm sure I'll get to you.
[49:03.520 --> 49:13.220]  Yeah, I have to apologize too, because I remember, you know, I'm going to Poland between March 1st and March 12th, and people were asking about where I'm going to be talking, and I really don't have those places.
[49:13.520 --> 49:13.800]  Mm-hmm.
[49:14.160 --> 49:19.120]  And a lot of those emails I couldn't even respond to, because I just don't know at this point in time.
[49:19.960 --> 49:21.320]  But I'm going to find out.
[49:21.660 --> 49:21.880]  Okay.
[49:23.500 --> 49:28.980]  And, well, there'll be all kinds of other possibilities as far as places that you might be appearing.
[49:30.040 --> 49:31.640]  Why not Krakow?
[49:32.600 --> 49:33.880]  Yeah, I'm going to Krakow.
[49:34.380 --> 49:35.080]  There you go.
[49:35.160 --> 49:35.680]  How appropriate.
[49:36.040 --> 49:36.280]  Okay.
[49:36.680 --> 49:36.920]  Yeah.
[49:37.440 --> 49:44.620]  Again, if you have ideas as to how the Kevin Mitnick Party can be staged here in New York or elsewhere, please write to us, OTH at 2600.com.
[49:44.800 --> 49:49.760]  Now, to get to some of the pre-discussed horror stories.
[49:50.000 --> 49:58.400]  Sarah, if you have some information for us on the new legislation called Patriot 2, before we begin, just one more appeal to people.
[49:58.560 --> 50:05.260]  Please call up, show your support, so that you can continue to hear voices like Kevin's, like Bernie's, like ours, like yours.
[50:05.680 --> 50:19.460]  At 212-209-2950, we have two pledge levels, $75, for a brand new off-the-hook t-shirt, and your choice of a subscription to 2600, or a Freedom Downtime video, the film that Kevin Mitnick and Bernie S.
[50:19.560 --> 50:25.400]  are in, or 125, you'll get a brand new 2600 hooded sweatshirt.
[50:25.480 --> 50:27.720]  that you can wear in any social situation.
[50:28.540 --> 50:32.780]  And also, a videotape and a subscription to 2600.
[50:32.880 --> 50:33.500]  All three things.
[50:34.040 --> 50:36.560]  The most important thing, though, is show your support for the radio station.
[50:36.660 --> 50:37.320]  Keep us going.
[50:37.540 --> 50:39.060]  Keep this kind of talk on the air.
[50:39.220 --> 50:41.160]  212-209-2950.
[50:41.460 --> 50:42.720]  Our numbers are going up.
[50:42.780 --> 50:43.920]  We're up to 3625.
[50:44.200 --> 50:45.140]  That's pretty cool.
[50:45.340 --> 50:47.280]  And my goal is, what, 5,000?
[50:47.420 --> 50:51.220]  So that means we have to raise $1,400 in the next 14 minutes.
[50:51.220 --> 50:52.740]  That's like $100 a minute.
[50:53.280 --> 50:54.980]  That means we're going to have to get some calls coming in.
[50:54.980 --> 50:57.440]  Let's remind people, once again, too, that really any amount helps.
[50:57.620 --> 50:58.340]  Any amount helps.
[50:58.540 --> 51:01.280]  And, you know, we got this high because of all the people who called in.
[51:01.380 --> 51:06.740]  You know, we started at zero, and now we're at 3625, which is no small bit of change in my world anyway.
[51:07.580 --> 51:09.320]  212-209-2950.
[51:10.000 --> 51:11.280]  We have Kevin Mitnick with us.
[51:11.320 --> 51:11.900]  We have Bernie S.
[51:12.000 --> 51:12.320]  with us.
[51:12.320 --> 51:15.780]  We have a whole cast of characters here in the studio, and we have you, our listeners.
[51:16.160 --> 51:18.420]  We're probably the most important part of the whole thing.
[51:18.580 --> 51:20.360]  212-209-2950.
[51:20.580 --> 51:21.700]  Three calls on the line.
[51:22.140 --> 51:23.980]  We can easily make that 10 again.
[51:24.100 --> 51:27.280]  Remember, there's 10 volunteers down there, all waiting for your call.
[51:27.280 --> 51:35.460]  And this is your last chance for this radio program because we're going off in 14 minutes, and we won't be back until after the fundraiser is over.
[51:35.720 --> 51:36.900]  Four calls on the line.
[51:37.000 --> 51:39.400]  212-209-2950.
[51:39.400 --> 51:40.980]  Please keep those calls coming in.
[51:40.980 --> 51:44.260]  Now, let's talk about Patriot 2 and scare some people.
[51:44.260 --> 51:44.920]  Oh, boy.
[51:45.060 --> 51:52.820]  Well, we all know about the Patriot Act, which is something that was created after 9-11 to supposedly enhance security in this country against terrorism.
[51:53.200 --> 51:54.320]  I have to interrupt you here.
[51:54.320 --> 51:54.720]  I'm sorry.
[51:55.360 --> 52:04.160]  If you read some of the Patriot Act, you realize that this stuff was written before 9-11 and then pushed through immediately after 9-11.
[52:04.300 --> 52:05.360]  How do you realize this?
[52:05.360 --> 52:17.140]  Well, I mean, it's because some of the words of this, some of the wording in this, if you look back, there's a huge volume of law that was passed for the original Patriot Act.
[52:17.320 --> 52:23.900]  And there's no way they would have written all this and gotten all their I's dotted and T's crossed in that short amount of time.
[52:24.360 --> 52:34.120]  And it bore a lot of resemblance to previous legislation that they tried to enact and then it didn't get through or whatever, got held up in committee.
[52:34.120 --> 52:39.300]  So this is a body of legislation, much of which was just waiting for a good opportunity.
[52:39.840 --> 52:41.760]  And 9-11 was that opportunity.
[52:41.960 --> 52:45.040]  Six calls on the line, 212-209-2950.
[52:45.040 --> 52:51.720]  It only takes a few more people pledging 125 for the sweatshirt to bring us over our goal here.
[52:51.840 --> 52:53.520]  212-209-2950.
[52:53.640 --> 52:54.820]  Please keep those calls coming in.
[52:54.900 --> 52:56.940]  Now, let's talk some more about Patriot 2 here.
[52:57.160 --> 52:58.380]  I have a comment.
[52:58.380 --> 53:10.760]  And it's kind of interesting that Patriot 2, in case people didn't know how grand juries work, usually the secrecy rules only applied to the grand jurors.
[53:11.200 --> 53:15.060]  And I believe to the grand juries and to the attorneys.
[53:15.500 --> 53:17.860]  And now, I think it applies now to the witnesses.
[53:17.860 --> 53:23.560]  So if you're called to testify or subpoena to the grand jury, they could...
[53:23.560 --> 53:27.180]  I think the Patriot Act would essentially make that...
[53:28.020 --> 53:30.080]  will bind you to keep that information secret.
[53:30.400 --> 53:30.660]  Mm-hmm.
[53:30.680 --> 53:31.460]  For all time.
[53:32.100 --> 53:33.120]  That's really something.
[53:33.360 --> 53:35.780]  Okay, Seraph, now we're running out of time, so you better hurry up.
[53:35.780 --> 53:36.260]  All right.
[53:37.040 --> 53:45.460]  Well, you know, one of the good things about the Patriot Act was that it had a sundown provision, which means that after five years, the Patriot Act would be no more.
[53:46.340 --> 53:54.760]  Patriot 2, which they're calling it, the real name of it is the Domestic Security Enhancement Act of 2003, is something that doesn't have a sundown period.
[53:54.780 --> 54:02.960]  It's something that will extend many of the provisions of the original Patriot Act, both in accept, but also in time.
[54:02.960 --> 54:06.280]  These are not things that will magically go away after a certain period.
[54:06.300 --> 54:09.100]  Are they extending it for another limited amount of time, or forever?
[54:09.460 --> 54:14.780]  Well, you know, this whole thing was released not by the government, but it was leaked.
[54:15.500 --> 54:19.160]  And on every page of it, it says that it's confidential and that it's not for release.
[54:20.000 --> 54:22.800]  And the bits of it that have actually been proposed...
[54:23.220 --> 54:26.380]  I should mention that this hasn't been proposed as a bill, really, on its own.
[54:26.600 --> 54:29.900]  Little bits of it have been inserted as riders into other bills.
[54:29.900 --> 54:39.500]  And I don't know whether we'll eventually see the whole thing presented as a bill, or whether it will just kind of be passed piecemeal, which would make it much harder to oppose.
[54:39.840 --> 54:43.620]  But I'll just do a quick rundown of some of the concepts here that...
[54:43.620 --> 54:44.480]  Yeah, give us the highlights.
[54:44.760 --> 54:47.100]  Eight calls on the line, 212-209-2950.
[54:47.400 --> 54:56.100]  Section 201 says that it will be a criminal act to release information about the whereabouts of a prisoner once they are incarcerated.
[54:56.880 --> 54:59.600]  Well, that would have affected both Bernie and Kevin there.
[54:59.680 --> 55:01.080]  We wouldn't be able to tell people where you were.
[55:02.280 --> 55:03.360]  What do you think about that?
[55:04.000 --> 55:04.980]  That's kind of scary.
[55:05.200 --> 55:05.380]  Yeah.
[55:05.540 --> 55:11.000]  That would have made a big difference in my situation, and Kevin's, and hundreds of thousands of other people, too.
[55:11.100 --> 55:23.160]  If you can not only lock people up, but keep their locations secret, how can people who are opposed to their imprisonment call the appropriate officials and say, hey, you should really let this guy out?
[55:23.460 --> 55:27.780]  Now, is this just any prisoner, or so-called terrorist prisoners?
[55:28.200 --> 55:32.040]  I believe it's... well, they say detainees.
[55:32.160 --> 55:35.800]  So this may apply to people who are so-called foreign combatants.
[55:35.960 --> 55:42.140]  But another part of Patriot 2 is that the definition of a foreign combatant is going to be expanded.
[55:42.140 --> 55:43.180]  Oh, really?
[55:43.180 --> 55:52.580]  And it's going to be expanded to citizens who may have violated any provision of Section 802 of the first Patriot Act.
[55:53.080 --> 55:53.560]  Okay.
[55:53.920 --> 56:04.140]  Which means engaging in all sorts of activities, which could be really some things that nobody would think of terrorism at all.
[56:04.480 --> 56:09.060]  You know, vandalism or really almost anything could make you a foreign combatant.
[56:09.060 --> 56:10.160]  Hacking, if I recall.
[56:10.380 --> 56:12.160]  Hacking could definitely qualify.
[56:12.340 --> 56:13.520]  I think hacking would be included there.
[56:13.760 --> 56:14.480]  Not the cough.
[56:14.800 --> 56:15.380]  That's pretty scary.
[56:16.340 --> 56:21.820]  How does the Patriot 2 reduce judicial review?
[56:22.100 --> 56:32.480]  I mean, are they allowed to... are their surveillance powers expanded without actually having a judge or having a judge intervene, or is there a burden of proof?
[56:32.480 --> 56:48.680]  Well, they encourage in Patriot 2 various business entities to do things currently prohibited, but which would be essentially the equivalent of the government not surveilling, but compiling information.
[56:49.680 --> 56:56.780]  In other words, rather than let the government do it, which would be blatantly illegal, they're encouraging businesses to do it and then report it.
[56:57.440 --> 57:07.320]  Also, in Section 201, according to some other websites, it also states that law enforcement does not even have to tell the press who they have arrested and they never have to release the names.
[57:07.500 --> 57:08.700]  Secret arrests people.
[57:08.960 --> 57:09.560]  Unbelievable.
[57:10.380 --> 57:26.940]  Now, Section 301 and 306 Terrorist Identification Database set up a national database of suspected terrorists and radically expands the database to include anyone associated with suspected terrorist groups and anyone involved in crimes or having supported any group designated as terrorists.
[57:27.500 --> 57:38.960]  These sections also set up a national DNA database for anyone on probation or who has been on probation for any crime and orders state governments to collect the DNA for the federal government.
[57:39.100 --> 57:40.020]  What do you think about that, guys?
[57:40.260 --> 57:41.160]  For any crime?
[57:41.280 --> 57:41.740]  Any crime.
[57:41.960 --> 57:44.040]  How about returning a library book late?
[57:44.480 --> 57:51.400]  Well, you know, Bernie, it's really for your own good because you could be exonerated from a crime that you're accused of but didn't commit, you know?
[57:51.420 --> 58:01.780]  Well, as a current felon, I'm kind of upset because I could imagine somebody spitting on the street after being at a demonstration.
[58:02.160 --> 58:06.560]  A cop comes over, picks up the gob of goo, and heaven knows where that might be introduced.
[58:06.860 --> 58:10.780]  I mean, there was a state trooper in the Midwest a couple years ago who was...
[58:10.780 --> 58:11.420]  No, New York.
[58:11.460 --> 58:12.160]  I'm terribly sorry.
[58:13.000 --> 58:26.600]  He took scotch tape and took fingerprints from the files in the police records and put it on crime scenes and had guys who had committed a crime 10, 15 years ago incarcerated again.
[58:26.760 --> 58:28.300]  Ooh, they've gone back to burglary.
[58:28.460 --> 58:29.540]  No, they hadn't.
[58:29.660 --> 58:31.480]  This trooper wanted to close some cases.
[58:32.040 --> 58:45.800]  What else is interesting is, about a year, year and a half ago, I did an interview for Yahoo Internet Life magazine, which is now defunct, and one of the predictions I had was that the government would create a federal DNA database to keep track of us.
[58:46.220 --> 58:59.120]  And, of course, I was misquoted by the reporter, and the misquote was that I recommended that the government do this, which is certainly, you know, if anybody knows about me would certainly know that I would never recommend such a measure.
[58:59.400 --> 59:01.400]  But now it seems to be happening.
[59:01.560 --> 59:03.160]  I guess I'm a little bit of a prophet.
[59:03.400 --> 59:05.660]  Hey, 12209-2950 is our phone number.
[59:05.720 --> 59:07.120]  Please keep those calls coming in.
[59:07.120 --> 59:09.120]  Now, Section 102.
[59:09.620 --> 59:11.040]  Saref, do you have Section 102 there?
[59:11.100 --> 59:11.200]  Yes, I do.
[59:11.200 --> 59:12.940]  That's a really scary one for me, anyway.
[59:13.140 --> 59:24.200]  This is really the scariest of all, and this should convince people of just how important it is, really, to keep WBAI going and other free media outlets such as ours.
[59:24.200 --> 59:37.840]  Section 102 states that any information gathering, regardless of whether those activities are illegal under any other statute, could be construed as clandestine intelligence activities for a foreign power.
[59:38.500 --> 59:38.720]  Yeah.
[59:38.840 --> 59:43.240]  And if you can read between the lines just oh so slightly here, this makes news gathering illegal.
[59:43.480 --> 59:43.740]  Totally.
[59:43.900 --> 59:44.780]  Total media control.
[59:44.780 --> 59:50.900]  And, you know, it's basically, it goes along the same lines as people that say, oh, having a peace demonstration is, you know, is helpful.
[59:51.640 --> 59:54.120]  You know, you're working for, you know, the enemy when you do that.
[59:54.240 --> 01:00:05.480]  Well, yeah, gathering information can be helpful to the enemy as well and something that, you know, it's a really slippery slope and something that scares me to death.
[01:00:05.480 --> 01:00:06.100]  It really does.
[01:00:06.900 --> 01:00:07.780]  How about this?
[01:00:07.860 --> 01:00:08.960]  Section 106.
[01:00:09.240 --> 01:00:18.780]  This states that broad general warrants by the secret FSIA court, which is a panel of secret judges set up in a star chamber system that convenes in an undisclosed location.
[01:00:19.240 --> 01:00:23.120]  That was granted under the first Patriot Act, but now they're saying that's not good enough.
[01:00:23.420 --> 01:00:29.220]  This states that government agents must be given immunity for carrying out searches with no prior court approval.
[01:00:29.560 --> 01:00:34.420]  This section basically throws out the entire Fourth Amendment against unreasonable searches and seizures.
[01:00:35.500 --> 01:00:37.000]  Ah, unbelievable.
[01:00:37.440 --> 01:00:38.820]  Also, Section 109.
[01:00:39.000 --> 01:00:46.660]  It allows secret star chamber courts to issue contempt charges against any individual or corporation who refuses to incriminate themselves or others.
[01:00:46.820 --> 01:00:50.500]  And that annihilates the last vestiges of the Fifth Amendment.
[01:00:50.900 --> 01:01:08.760]  Yeah, Emmanuel, I mean, search and seizure law is so watered down because even if they do an illegal search, if the prosecutors could, I guess, represent to a court, probably the preponderance of the evidence that the officer was acting in good faith,
[01:01:08.900 --> 01:01:10.780]  the search is upheld even though it's illegal.
[01:01:11.460 --> 01:01:12.180]  Mm-hmm.
[01:01:12.260 --> 01:01:12.620]  Mm-hmm.
[01:01:12.680 --> 01:01:21.660]  Uh, we're getting a lot of this information from Infowars.com, by the way, so if people want to look at that a little bit more and find out some more information about this, it's a good place to go.
[01:01:21.800 --> 01:01:24.120]  Another good site is ReclaimDemocracy.org.
[01:01:24.120 --> 01:01:24.920]  Uh-huh.
[01:01:25.060 --> 01:01:36.820]  And I'd just like to mention that besides helping to keep WBAI on the air so that we can keep talking about this stuff and educating people about it, call your representatives and tell them that you're concerned about this.
[01:01:37.000 --> 01:01:41.660]  Many of them potentially haven't even heard of it or don't have a copy of this.
[01:01:42.540 --> 01:01:55.760]  You can call them up, though, and tell them that you're concerned about the Domestic Security Enhancement Act of 2003, and you can reach your representatives by calling 1-800-839-5276.
[01:01:55.860 --> 01:02:00.920]  But call us first, 212-209-2950, because this is the place you're going to hear about this.
[01:02:01.040 --> 01:02:01.840]  It's pretty shocking.
[01:02:01.960 --> 01:02:02.480]  Are you shocked?
[01:02:02.560 --> 01:02:03.120]  I'm shocked.
[01:02:03.240 --> 01:02:06.420]  You haven't been hearing this on commercial TV or commercial radio, have you?
[01:02:06.500 --> 01:02:12.360]  No, you've been hearing the same old music and crap and TV shows and Joe Millionaire and all that kind of garbage out there.
[01:02:12.540 --> 01:02:13.540]  That's what you've been hearing.
[01:02:13.620 --> 01:02:14.260]  That's what you've been seeing.
[01:02:14.380 --> 01:02:15.580]  That's what the priority is.
[01:02:15.580 --> 01:02:20.120]  So if that's what you agree with, if that's what you want to see, then give us a call.
[01:02:20.320 --> 01:02:21.100]  Don't give us a call.
[01:02:21.360 --> 01:02:24.920]  Turn on your TV or, you know, watch something commercial in nature.
[01:02:25.080 --> 01:02:34.760]  But if you think that this information is something that might be a little bit relevant, we're talking about things that are creating lifetime parole, which is basically slavery, for all kinds of crimes.
[01:02:34.960 --> 01:02:39.880]  We're talking about making it a crime for various criminals, in quotes, to use encryption.
[01:02:40.840 --> 01:02:42.400]  We're talking about all kinds of things.
[01:02:42.480 --> 01:02:43.580]  This is what Patriot 2 is.
[01:02:43.620 --> 01:02:45.000]  This is what the future holds for us.
[01:02:45.000 --> 01:02:47.200]  It's 212-209-2950.
[01:02:47.220 --> 01:02:48.640]  We're in the last two minutes of the show.
[01:02:49.460 --> 01:02:51.180]  We need to get a bunch of calls here.
[01:02:51.260 --> 01:02:52.820]  212-209-2950.
[01:02:53.980 --> 01:03:01.520]  Calling your congressional representatives will help, because Congress denied funding to Total Information Awareness.
[01:03:01.980 --> 01:03:08.880]  That's the IAO, that's the part of DARPA that was going to set up the national database of everybody's information.
[01:03:09.580 --> 01:03:14.820]  And Congress denied, well, last thing I heard was Congress denied them funding once they found out about it.
[01:03:14.820 --> 01:03:20.820]  So by calling out your local representatives, you can actually affect the...
[01:03:21.400 --> 01:03:21.420]  Uh-huh.
[01:03:21.420 --> 01:03:26.000]  212-209-2950 is our phone number, and we are in the last minute here.
[01:03:26.080 --> 01:03:27.660]  So please, let's get a flurry of calls.
[01:03:27.680 --> 01:03:29.080]  We have three calls on the line.
[01:03:29.080 --> 01:03:32.460]  There's all these lonely volunteers back there who really want to talk to someone.
[01:03:32.820 --> 01:03:38.100]  Yeah, they're really sad and lonely, and we need to have them be as busy as possible.
[01:03:38.280 --> 01:03:40.080]  So please, give us a call.
[01:03:40.720 --> 01:03:41.740]  We're signing out of here.
[01:03:41.820 --> 01:03:42.820]  We won't be here next week.
[01:03:43.200 --> 01:03:44.380]  The 9 o'clock program's here?
[01:03:44.540 --> 01:03:44.820]  Great.
[01:03:44.940 --> 01:03:45.120]  Okay.
[01:03:46.040 --> 01:03:46.680]  We've got to go.
[01:03:46.800 --> 01:03:52.200]  So please, keep those calls coming in until we actually get out of here, and we'll see you in two weeks.
[01:03:52.200 --> 01:03:53.100]  Thanks, everybody, for calling.
[01:03:53.240 --> 01:03:54.980]  212-209-2950.
[01:03:55.340 --> 01:03:56.440]  Stay free.
[01:04:00.370 --> 01:04:03.330]  Well, well, well, well, yeah.
[01:04:04.370 --> 01:04:04.770]  Oh,
[01:04:07.990 --> 01:04:08.990]  yeah, yeah, yeah.
[01:04:09.610 --> 01:04:13.990]  Trouble is all over town, yeah.
[01:04:15.510 --> 01:04:18.490]  It's pure looting and shooting and killing.
[01:04:19.010 --> 01:04:26.470]  And burning out, then burning out your trouble is all over my hometown.
[01:04:26.470 --> 01:04:27.470]  Yeah.
[01:04:29.190 --> 01:04:31.710]  It's pure looting and shooting and killing.
[01:04:32.250 --> 01:04:36.330]  And burning out, then burning out your trouble.
[01:04:36.730 --> 01:04:39.090]  But where do I stand here?
[01:04:43.700 --> 01:04:50.020]  In this era of danger, spin, and blather, independent voices on the airwaves are more...