[00:03.240 --> 00:04.200]  Daycare call.
[00:04.780 --> 00:08.480]  Why don't the dad go home?
[00:16.250 --> 00:21.870]  Okay, you should be hearing Randy Newman saying that he listens to WBAI, but instead we're hearing silence.
[00:22.690 --> 00:35.830]  So on behalf of Randy Newman, let me say that whenever he's in New York, he urges you to listen to WBAI in New York and pledge your support when we have fundraising, as we will be doing starting next week.
[00:35.830 --> 00:42.390]  Here at 99.5 FM, WBAI New York, where the time is 7 o'clock.
[00:42.710 --> 00:46.250]  And that means it's time, once again, for Off the Hook.
[01:53.080 --> 01:58.880]  See, the whole problem is we have these mechanisms called carts, which are ancient from the 19...
[01:59.740 --> 02:01.400]  Oh, and we lost Bernie S, too.
[02:01.640 --> 02:02.280]  How about that?
[02:02.740 --> 02:03.940]  Everything is going wrong tonight.
[02:05.240 --> 02:08.580]  Okay, we have to call Bernie S again, which is going to be hard because Jeff isn't here.
[02:09.380 --> 02:12.200]  Jeff is the person who holds the phone because if, uh...
[02:12.200 --> 02:15.900]  Mike, I don't think you can hold the phone quite like Jeff can, but we'll try, we'll try.
[02:16.840 --> 02:22.340]  Someone has to hold the phone while I dial, otherwise the phone moves all the way across the table because you have to press the buttons really, really hard.
[02:24.220 --> 02:26.740]  This isn't what I signed up for, but...
[02:26.740 --> 02:27.340]  All right.
[02:29.560 --> 02:30.580]  Now we'll get the magical tone.
[02:30.720 --> 02:32.480]  I have to enter the authorization code.
[02:32.960 --> 02:34.180]  I need you to hold the phone again, Mike.
[02:34.840 --> 02:35.200]  Thank you.
[02:36.320 --> 02:38.680]  All right, let's see if Bernie actually picks up the phone.
[02:42.460 --> 02:42.780]  Unbelievable.
[02:42.940 --> 02:46.000]  We have to go through to get things to work around here, but we do it in the end.
[02:46.080 --> 02:46.580]  That's what matters.
[02:47.040 --> 02:47.240]  Hello?
[02:47.480 --> 02:49.100]  Bernie, you think you can hold on to the phone line?
[02:49.400 --> 02:54.620]  Well, it depends on how many people Sprint PCS oversubscribed in my neighborhood.
[02:54.880 --> 02:56.740]  Always blaming Sprint PCS.
[02:57.000 --> 02:59.180]  I guess that's because you use them all the time, but...
[02:59.200 --> 03:05.460]  But still, you know, it's amazing how they're at the heart of almost all the problems that seem to be happening.
[03:05.860 --> 03:09.460]  I have an interesting issue tonight to talk about Sprint PCS, by the way.
[03:09.460 --> 03:14.380]  Okay, we brought up the dramatic music for that particular thing.
[03:14.400 --> 03:15.060]  You want to tell us right now?
[03:15.340 --> 03:15.920]  Oh, sure.
[03:16.560 --> 03:28.320]  I don't know how many listeners are unfortunate enough to be Sprint PCS subscribers like myself, but if they look at their most recent bill or two, they'll notice a new charge on there.
[03:28.320 --> 03:31.620]  It wasn't even in their contract that they agreed to pay.
[03:31.840 --> 03:38.200]  It's called a federal telephone number pooling charge of 47 cents.
[03:39.600 --> 03:40.700]  47 cents.
[03:41.160 --> 03:42.120]  What is this again?
[03:42.240 --> 03:42.740]  The federal what?
[03:42.880 --> 03:44.460]  Federal telephone number pooling.
[03:45.120 --> 03:47.500]  Okay, what exactly is telephone number pooling?
[03:47.500 --> 03:48.560]  That's what I asked.
[03:48.720 --> 03:58.160]  And apparently, the FCC, for the past several years, has been requiring wireless carriers to provide number portability.
[03:58.360 --> 04:07.340]  So when you get sick of Sprint PCS or whatever wireless carrier you're using, you can take that mobile phone number with you to another carrier, which I think makes great competition.
[04:07.620 --> 04:07.980]  Okay.
[04:09.240 --> 04:12.540]  But the carriers have been fighting this tooth and nail.
[04:13.360 --> 04:17.200]  It doesn't mean that you can write an episode of Friends.
[04:17.460 --> 04:18.280]  Hang on, what's going on here?
[04:18.400 --> 04:19.280]  It doesn't mean that you...
[04:19.280 --> 04:21.960]  Hey, Joe, why don't you come up with a TV situation comment?
[04:22.100 --> 04:23.060]  Oh, that was Randy Newman.
[04:23.160 --> 04:23.440]  I'm sorry.
[04:23.620 --> 04:24.900]  Randy Newman decided to barge in.
[04:26.680 --> 04:30.540]  You see, okay, as I was explaining, these carts, you have to queue them up.
[04:30.660 --> 04:33.140]  You know, they're like eight-track tapes, and you have to get to a certain point.
[04:33.140 --> 04:37.000]  And apparently, it wasn't queued up, and it wasn't playing, and now it doesn't...
[04:37.000 --> 04:37.500]  Or hum.
[04:37.700 --> 04:38.720]  It doesn't queue up at all.
[04:38.800 --> 04:39.540]  I don't know what's going on.
[04:39.640 --> 04:41.980]  But the whole mechanism's shot, apparently.
[04:42.460 --> 04:43.240]  I'm sorry, Bernie.
[04:43.300 --> 04:43.500]  Continue.
[04:43.720 --> 04:44.300]  Oh, that's okay.
[04:44.800 --> 04:45.780]  I don't mind, Randy.
[04:46.100 --> 04:46.260]  Yeah.
[04:47.460 --> 05:00.940]  As I was saying, this 47-cent doesn't sound like very much, but I researched on the Wall Street Journal's website, and apparently Sprint PCS has 18 million subscribers across the U.S.
[05:00.940 --> 05:05.460]  And I did some quick math, and that comes over $100 million a year.
[05:05.820 --> 05:06.780]  What the hell is this?
[05:06.820 --> 05:07.820]  So I called Sprint PCS.
[05:07.920 --> 05:29.420]  I went through several supervisors, got nowhere, finally talked to their main press spokesperson, who told me that, yes, this is so that they can recoup the costs that they have to incur to put into effect this telephone number pooling, which includes this number portability thing.
[05:29.420 --> 05:40.260]  But they've been fighting this for years, including the lobbyists for the wireless industry, the CTIA, Cellular Telephone Industry Association, of which Sprint PCS is a member.
[05:41.340 --> 05:46.380]  They've been fighting in federal court to push this thing off, and they've been successful for the past several years.
[05:46.560 --> 05:55.080]  The next deadline, if they don't, depending on whether they'll be successful in putting that down, is this November we'll have wireless number portability.
[05:55.440 --> 05:59.120]  But I'm not holding my breath, because they've pushed it down two or three times already.
[05:59.400 --> 06:02.700]  We should have had this back in 97, according to federal law.
[06:02.940 --> 06:06.820]  So anyhow, the guy I spoke to is Sprint PCS, the spokesperson.
[06:08.640 --> 06:11.260]  He said, well, this is just so we can recoup our costs.
[06:11.320 --> 06:15.780]  I'm like, well, there's a lot of other costs that you incur as a result of government regulations.
[06:15.800 --> 06:20.480]  This isn't a federal surcharge or a tax, is it?
[06:20.480 --> 06:23.780]  And he said, well, sort of, and he finally admitted it's not a tax or a surcharge.
[06:24.080 --> 06:26.440]  This is just something Sprint is grabbing money for.
[06:27.100 --> 06:27.700]  I said, what about others?
[06:27.700 --> 06:28.140]  He said that?
[06:28.800 --> 06:30.200]  Well, that's what I told him.
[06:30.360 --> 06:32.240]  And he's like, well, yes, or whatever.
[06:32.480 --> 06:46.000]  So I said, well, what about other significant costs that are even greater than this that you have to pay to comply with regulations and implement technology like the whole CALEA wiretapping thing where it allows law enforcement to listen to all your wireless conversations?
[06:46.340 --> 06:49.160]  Basically, it will, assuming they got that warrant.
[06:49.160 --> 06:50.220]  But who would know if they did?
[06:50.340 --> 06:55.680]  Because they have control over the wiretapping themselves unlike before, before CALEA.
[06:55.860 --> 07:01.220]  And he said, well, I'm not at liberty to discuss other issues like CALEA.
[07:01.440 --> 07:06.880]  But that cost, CALEA costs a whole lot more to implement than this federal telephone number pooling.
[07:06.900 --> 07:11.720]  The bottom line is, I said, well, how much is this federal telephone number pooling going to cost for NPCS to implement?
[07:11.860 --> 07:12.840]  And why are you fighting it?
[07:13.360 --> 07:15.780]  He's like, well, we're not really sure how much it costs to implement.
[07:15.920 --> 07:25.140]  And I said, well, how are you coming up with this 47-cent charge, which becomes $100 million a year that you're charging subscribers for a service that you're not even offering?
[07:25.140 --> 07:28.840]  And in fact, you're fighting in federal court to have to, so you don't have to offer it.
[07:29.280 --> 07:31.040]  And he said, well, I'll have to call you back.
[07:31.100 --> 07:32.000]  And he never did.
[07:32.120 --> 07:34.300]  And so, anyhow, I thought it was pretty interesting.
[07:34.760 --> 07:49.420]  Yes, and that's another example of how corporations worldwide, or definitely in the United States, wind up charging consumers for things that may not even be expenses for them and other ways that they save money.
[07:49.460 --> 07:51.020]  Actually, I'd like to demonstrate something like that right now.
[07:51.060 --> 07:53.240]  Bernie, if you don't mind the sound of a phone dialing in your ear.
[07:53.440 --> 07:53.920]  I don't know.
[07:54.040 --> 07:57.920]  Okay, because this way I can make sure that numbers are actually dialing.
[07:58.840 --> 08:02.080]  I have to read the back of this in order to do that.
[08:02.080 --> 08:02.520]  Thank you, Mike.
[08:04.340 --> 08:07.360]  That's unbelievable how hard you have to push the buttons to get it to go through here.
[08:08.440 --> 08:10.340]  We're doing something we did a couple of weeks ago.
[08:12.140 --> 08:15.800]  Just to see how certain corporations work.
[08:16.080 --> 08:19.020]  American Express, please have your card available.
[08:19.400 --> 08:20.120]  Okay, now...
[08:20.120 --> 08:21.760]  For balance, recent charges...
[08:21.760 --> 08:22.900]  We don't have a card available.
[08:22.960 --> 08:25.740]  Actually, we do, but we're not going to read off the numbers, certainly not on the air.
[08:26.460 --> 08:30.800]  So we're going to just sort of sit here until we get an operator, and we're going to find out where exactly these people are.
[08:32.420 --> 08:36.040]  And then try to imagine how much people there are getting paid.
[08:36.100 --> 08:39.360]  We did this a few weeks ago, and we found out they were in Canada.
[08:39.880 --> 08:41.140]  But that's not always the case.
[08:42.280 --> 08:44.160]  In fact, many, many times I've called them.
[08:44.280 --> 08:45.800]  They've been in other places in the world.
[08:46.560 --> 08:52.880]  So it's interesting to see, and especially when they have American accents, which is really kind of bizarre.
[08:53.520 --> 08:55.540]  And they're in the middle of a third-world country someplace.
[08:56.840 --> 08:58.360]  Sometimes they'll tell you where they are.
[08:58.440 --> 08:59.280]  Sometimes they won't.
[08:59.280 --> 09:02.580]  But we'll see if we can social-engineer them into telling us this time.
[09:03.560 --> 09:04.420]  It'll take a while, though.
[09:04.500 --> 09:11.780]  We have to battle the voicemail machine here who's going to get increasingly frustrated that we're not entering little touch-tones.
[09:12.380 --> 09:15.260]  Do we have a contest to guess what country it is before they come on?
[09:15.400 --> 09:16.520]  No, I don't think we have enough time.
[09:16.660 --> 09:18.080]  They're actually going to come on.
[09:18.180 --> 09:18.900]  I guess India.
[09:19.260 --> 09:20.100]  Well, that's a good guess.
[09:20.200 --> 09:20.480]  Hang on.
[09:20.800 --> 09:21.960]  We're going to get a recording again.
[09:22.320 --> 09:24.420]  We did not recognize your input.
[09:24.420 --> 09:27.320]  Enter the 15-digit card account number now.
[09:27.400 --> 09:28.600]  See, she's sounding angry now.
[09:28.920 --> 09:30.160]  She's starting to get upset.
[09:31.280 --> 09:31.700]  All right.
[09:31.820 --> 09:36.960]  And when she realizes she's not going to get anywhere with us, she will agree, although, you know, kind of reluctantly...
[09:36.960 --> 09:38.360]  This call may be recorded for quality purposes.
[09:38.400 --> 09:38.960]  ...to transfer us.
[09:39.120 --> 09:45.060]  Your account number may be used to provide customer service and information about available card benefits and services.
[09:45.380 --> 09:55.140]  For information regarding your account, as well as other benefits and services, log on to americanexpress.com and register to manage your card account online.
[09:55.620 --> 09:56.200]  Thank you.
[09:57.880 --> 09:59.660]  Hush, hush, hush, hush, hush, hush.
[09:59.680 --> 10:00.420]  Bernie, hush.
[10:07.200 --> 10:08.520]  Customer service, this is Tara.
[10:08.740 --> 10:09.200]  How may I help you?
[10:09.400 --> 10:12.660]  Yes, Bob, over in the International Line switchroom in New York.
[10:12.820 --> 10:15.240]  We're trying to determine what the end point of this phone call is.
[10:15.300 --> 10:16.360]  Can you tell me where you're located?
[10:17.060 --> 10:18.140]  Where I am located?
[10:18.160 --> 10:18.440]  Yeah.
[10:18.760 --> 10:19.740]  I'm located in Canada.
[10:20.000 --> 10:20.580]  You're in Canada?
[10:20.820 --> 10:21.140]  Yes.
[10:21.380 --> 10:21.680]  Okay.
[10:21.780 --> 10:22.720]  We're supposed to be reaching India.
[10:22.720 --> 10:24.380]  Do you know if that's, uh...
[10:24.380 --> 10:24.920]  Some...
[10:24.920 --> 10:26.340]  We have some offices in India.
[10:26.860 --> 10:29.240]  We have some in the United States, in England, Canada.
[10:29.780 --> 10:30.100]  Okay.
[10:30.900 --> 10:32.180]  Do you have the city, uh...
[10:32.180 --> 10:32.980]  the city name in India?
[10:33.880 --> 10:35.380]  No, I do not.
[10:35.560 --> 10:35.860]  Okay.
[10:36.200 --> 10:37.260]  I can look, though.
[10:37.360 --> 10:37.940]  Just one moment.
[10:38.020 --> 10:38.400]  If you could.
[10:38.520 --> 10:38.760]  Thank you.
[10:38.880 --> 10:39.320]  Thank you very much.
[10:39.360 --> 10:39.840]  Am I holding for a minute?
[10:40.020 --> 10:40.420]  No problem.
[10:43.200 --> 10:44.340]  Hey, pass me that coffee.
[10:44.640 --> 10:44.940]  Thank you.
[10:47.560 --> 10:49.720]  I'll tell you, they have us working like dogs down here in the switchroom.
[10:49.820 --> 10:50.260]  Thank you very much.
[10:52.860 --> 10:55.080]  Um, Bernie, I guess we can, we can talk to you.
[10:55.540 --> 10:56.940]  Um, are you, are you...
[10:56.940 --> 10:57.920]  That was pretty good.
[10:58.060 --> 10:58.360]  Are you connected?
[10:58.440 --> 10:59.300]  Well, we're still connected.
[10:59.980 --> 11:00.700]  We're still connected.
[11:00.880 --> 11:02.500]  So, um...
[11:03.080 --> 11:07.940]  Tell us about, uh, is, is, is your, is your switchroom okay down in your connection that we're connected to as well?
[11:08.480 --> 11:10.160]  We're ankle deep in water, Emmanuel.
[11:10.360 --> 11:11.320]  Oh, you're ankle deep in water, huh?
[11:11.580 --> 11:11.800]  Mm-hmm.
[11:12.000 --> 11:14.020]  Yeah, well, you gotta be, uh, you gotta be careful.
[11:14.100 --> 11:16.980]  Make sure that doesn't touch the, uh, you know, the, um...
[11:16.980 --> 11:17.680]  The third rail?
[11:17.880 --> 11:22.700]  The, the Spangler, and that's, you know, in the, in the third trimester there.
[11:23.540 --> 11:24.360]  Heather, thank you for holding.
[11:24.500 --> 11:25.620]  I do apologize for the delay.
[11:25.880 --> 11:27.980]  What specifically were you looking for?
[11:28.160 --> 11:30.060]  Uh, we just need the, the city locations.
[11:31.380 --> 11:32.740]  And why is that, though?
[11:32.920 --> 11:35.700]  Uh, we're trying to find out if, um, if, if they match us.
[11:35.760 --> 11:37.920]  We have Bhopal, and we have Calcutta.
[11:38.280 --> 11:38.620]  No.
[11:38.620 --> 11:39.880]  That's not what you have?
[11:40.240 --> 11:40.560]  No.
[11:40.920 --> 11:41.140]  Okay.
[11:42.060 --> 11:43.520]  How, how, how many, first of all, how many do you have?
[11:44.100 --> 11:49.780]  We have numerous ones, and there's different types of centers that are located all over the world, so it depends on what you're looking for.
[11:49.780 --> 11:52.160]  Well, we're just looking for the, the, the main call center there.
[11:52.900 --> 11:53.860]  That I don't have.
[11:53.980 --> 11:54.700]  Oh, you don't have that?
[11:54.960 --> 11:55.140]  No.
[11:55.520 --> 11:57.920]  Okay, can you give me one city name, and I can just take it from there?
[11:58.620 --> 12:00.180]  Uh, you could try New Delhi.
[12:00.460 --> 12:00.640]  All right.
[12:00.880 --> 12:01.160]  Or Mumbai.
[12:02.320 --> 12:04.180]  There's some, some, some offices in there.
[12:04.360 --> 12:05.000]  What was the last one?
[12:05.460 --> 12:05.820]  Mumbai.
[12:06.160 --> 12:06.700]  Could you spell that?
[12:06.700 --> 12:09.060]  I think it's M-U-M-B-A-I.
[12:09.440 --> 12:09.760]  Okay.
[12:10.160 --> 12:10.980]  B-A-I, you say?
[12:11.180 --> 12:11.420]  Yeah.
[12:11.600 --> 12:11.820]  Okay.
[12:11.980 --> 12:12.600]  Thank you very much.
[12:12.700 --> 12:13.000]  You're welcome.
[12:13.120 --> 12:13.360]  All right.
[12:13.420 --> 12:13.660]  All right.
[12:14.360 --> 12:16.780]  And that's, uh, we got you, Bernie, not her, right?
[12:17.260 --> 12:17.520]  Yes.
[12:17.640 --> 12:18.140]  Okay, good.
[12:18.800 --> 12:26.120]  Uh, that's, that's, uh, you see, she was starting to get suspicious there, so when you're social engineering, you have to sort of, uh, you know, clean up your mess, so get her to tell you information.
[12:26.320 --> 12:36.500]  I, I wasn't pushing for as much information, you know, as, as I would have gotten ordinarily if she had just given me everything, but at least we got, uh, we got Mumbai, which is a great name, and, uh, New Delhi.
[12:36.500 --> 12:37.840]  So we know there are call centers there.
[12:38.040 --> 12:46.380]  And, you know, it's, it's kind of ironic because, um, I've gotten, uh, I've had a real saga with American Express, which I'll get into it in a future show, because the saga is still ongoing.
[12:46.920 --> 12:54.200]  Uh, but, uh, I've had to call them many, many times, and when I call them, I guess it's usually because I call them at four in the morning, which is when I do most of my banking.
[12:54.980 --> 13:02.580]  Um, and, uh, I, um, I would ask them where they are, because, um, they would have trouble transferring me and things like that, and every time they were in India.
[13:02.840 --> 13:03.280]  Every time.
[13:04.020 --> 13:07.640]  Uh, so you have to wonder, you know, what are they paying those, those non-Uni, unionized people over there?
[13:08.060 --> 13:13.240]  Uh, probably not very much, and they're saving a huge amount, and yet they're charging us more and more.
[13:13.860 --> 13:14.440]  Go figure.
[13:15.280 --> 13:25.820]  There's one city, Emmanuel, you're familiar with it, uh, the, I spoke to a customer service person in India from, who was working for Dell Computer a few weeks ago, and, uh, I actually had a good conversation with him.
[13:25.860 --> 13:27.320]  He told me about the town he was in.
[13:27.420 --> 13:31.260]  I forget the name of it, but he said it was the Silicon Valley of India.
[13:31.260 --> 13:31.600]  Really?
[13:32.080 --> 13:32.380]  Yeah.
[13:32.580 --> 13:36.860]  Well, I hear Iraq might be the Silicon Valley of, uh, of the Mideast, if we have our way.
[13:37.260 --> 13:43.260]  Well, I guess if you drop really powerful bombs into sand, it could turn it into silicon.
[13:43.820 --> 13:50.460]  Well, they're, you know, the, the mines that the military are experimenting right now and things like that, so, uh, we'll just have to see what they come up with.
[13:50.460 --> 13:58.880]  Um, yes, uh, Mike, uh, Bernie, you, you mentioned something about wiretaps, um, and you also sent us an article about wiretaps.
[13:58.960 --> 13:59.820]  Yes, let's talk about that.
[13:59.940 --> 14:01.200]  Which I'm going to make a manual find.
[14:01.600 --> 14:02.960]  Um, oh, you want me to find it?
[14:03.040 --> 14:04.180]  Well, he has it too, I think, right?
[14:04.340 --> 14:06.120]  Well, actually, I, I don't have it in front of me now.
[14:06.160 --> 14:06.320]  Okay.
[14:06.520 --> 14:19.460]  The important detail is that the, the, the official government wiretap report, which I read like half an hour before you sent it, sent me this article, uh, shows that the amount of wiretaps last year actually went down from the previous year.
[14:20.460 --> 14:30.780]  Um, but, but the reason for this is that the secret FISA court, which we have discussed briefly on the show, uh, where there's like, there's no process, you don't know anything about it.
[14:30.900 --> 14:36.220]  The only thing we know is like this two paragraph memo that John Ashcraft has to write once a year.
[14:36.540 --> 14:40.760]  Uh, their, their amount of wiretaps has been skyrocketing.
[14:41.500 --> 14:51.040]  Um, now why exactly they want to avoid the official normal wiretap process is kind of curious because they've only denied one wiretap in the past four years.
[14:51.720 --> 14:52.840]  Uh, I think it's simple.
[14:52.900 --> 14:56.880]  I think it's accountability, you know, no paper trail, uh, you know, things like that.
[14:57.320 --> 15:04.840]  And the, the other thing I learned from the official wiretap report is that the average wiretap costs $50,000 of your money.
[15:04.840 --> 15:05.660]  Mm-hmm.
[15:05.860 --> 15:19.320]  Well, the, the official story, which came from the Associated Press, uh, last week, I believe, uh, on Thursday, the government disclosed it requested and won approval for a record 1,228 warrants last year for secret wiretaps and searches of suspected terrorists and spies,
[15:19.580 --> 15:23.300]  a reflection of aggressive efforts to prevent terror attacks in the United States.
[15:24.260 --> 15:26.860]  I, I think that's their take on it, not the Associated Press's.
[15:27.560 --> 15:28.380]  Um, U.S.
[15:28.580 --> 15:33.500]  Attorney General John Ashcroft disclosed the figures in a mandatory two paragraph report to the Administrative Office of the U.S.
[15:33.620 --> 15:33.940]  Courts.
[15:34.160 --> 15:42.920]  Last year's total was significantly higher than the 934 warrants approved in 2001 and the 1,003 approved in 2000.
[15:43.920 --> 15:55.020]  Uh, people have wondered why there was a decrease in criminal wiretaps, um, that, uh, there was a 9, a 9% decrease from the, um, 1,491 applications logged the previous year.
[15:55.120 --> 15:57.960]  This year, it was 1,359 applications.
[15:57.960 --> 16:11.940]  They were wondering why there was a decrease, uh, in those, uh, and according to the former general counsel for the Senate Judiciary Committee, we thought it was most likely due to the increased use of FISA court-ordered surveillance, uh, and they say this is consistent and bears out that view.
[16:12.340 --> 16:15.320]  There's a term for this, and it's called judge shopping.
[16:15.940 --> 16:24.400]  And the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act court, FISA court, I don't believe, uh, has ever, ever turned down a request.
[16:24.520 --> 16:24.880]  Is that right?
[16:24.880 --> 16:34.040]  Uh, well, I, hasn't, I haven't been told if they have, but, uh, I don't, I, I think probably it's very similar to the, the federal conviction rate of over 95%.
[16:34.040 --> 16:37.020]  Um, they tend not to deny these things.
[16:37.240 --> 16:46.260]  The, the other interesting thing I learned is that most of the non-FISA wiretaps, uh, are for drug, drug narcotics investigations.
[16:46.720 --> 16:48.480]  So, if you're a drug dealer, watch out.
[16:49.240 --> 16:49.560]  Yeah.
[16:49.780 --> 16:49.820]  Yeah.
[16:49.880 --> 16:51.120]  We're not telling you anything new there.
[16:51.660 --> 16:55.060]  Um, so, uh, that's, uh, that's interesting right there as well.
[16:55.820 --> 16:56.800]  Um, okay.
[16:56.860 --> 16:58.440]  I had a little adventure coming over here.
[16:58.620 --> 17:01.880]  Uh, as you know, the, uh, the fair increase has taken place, right, Jim?
[17:02.280 --> 17:03.940]  On the, on the, uh, on the system there.
[17:04.080 --> 17:05.440]  Oh, wait, I got the wrong microphone turned up for you.
[17:05.560 --> 17:05.860]  There you are.
[17:06.000 --> 17:06.560]  Yes, indeed.
[17:06.900 --> 17:11.460]  Uh, so I tried to, uh, I had two cards with me, um, that were, um, what do you call it?
[17:11.540 --> 17:12.180]  Uh, fun passes.
[17:12.400 --> 17:14.720]  I think I told you what was going to happen.
[17:14.780 --> 17:15.840]  Why don't you tell me what was going to happen?
[17:15.960 --> 17:16.680]  I'll tell you what did happen.
[17:16.920 --> 17:18.280]  Uh, you tried it today, correct?
[17:18.880 --> 17:19.880]  Well, why don't you tell me?
[17:20.060 --> 17:20.540]  Tell me what I did.
[17:20.540 --> 17:27.340]  Well, if you tried it today, and if it was a fun pass purchase before the fair increased, you're beyond the, uh, the pale, so to speak.
[17:27.520 --> 17:28.680]  Well, that's not what the machine said.
[17:28.940 --> 17:29.260]  Really?
[17:29.440 --> 17:30.600]  It didn't say beyond the pale, no.
[17:30.620 --> 17:33.180]  It said, okay, I'll tell you, we're talking turnstile?
[17:33.620 --> 17:35.880]  We're talking turnstile, we're talking little MetroCard reader.
[17:35.880 --> 17:37.440]  The turnstile said insufficient fare.
[17:38.180 --> 17:39.060]  No, no, it did not.
[17:39.080 --> 17:39.640]  No, it didn't?
[17:39.800 --> 17:40.160]  It did not.
[17:40.300 --> 17:40.320]  It did not.
[17:40.320 --> 17:40.840]  It worked?
[17:41.300 --> 17:41.620]  No.
[17:41.940 --> 17:42.140]  Okay.
[17:42.140 --> 17:42.760]  I didn't say that.
[17:43.180 --> 17:44.480]  No, it just said see agent.
[17:44.980 --> 17:45.200]  Ah.
[17:45.480 --> 17:48.220]  Now, the beauty, the beauty of the MetroCard is, it's always a surprise.
[17:48.220 --> 17:49.820]  You never know what MetroCard is what.
[17:49.980 --> 17:50.680]  They all look the same.
[17:51.060 --> 17:56.120]  Uh, so I have one that has money on it, one that's an old fun pass, one that's an unused fun pass.
[17:56.440 --> 17:58.680]  Uh, the one that had money on it told me how much money it had.
[17:58.780 --> 18:01.240]  The one that was, uh, used said see agent.
[18:01.360 --> 18:03.360]  The one that was not used also said see agent.
[18:03.540 --> 18:05.280]  So there was no distinction between the two.
[18:05.680 --> 18:06.760]  Uh, it might have gotten bent.
[18:06.960 --> 18:07.580]  No, no, no.
[18:07.640 --> 18:09.300]  That's just the way their, their software works.
[18:09.420 --> 18:10.780]  So I went and I saw the agent.
[18:10.880 --> 18:11.360]  Hold on.
[18:12.140 --> 18:22.400]  Did you, did you by any chance go to one of the large MetroCard vending machines, hit MetroCard, and where the new option for the last few months has been get card information.
[18:22.540 --> 18:23.180]  Did you try that?
[18:23.300 --> 18:23.880]  No, I haven't done that.
[18:23.940 --> 18:25.320]  That gives you more information.
[18:25.460 --> 18:32.600]  It actually reads the serial number, displays it on the screen as well as, well, as well as tell you what card it is and whether it's used.
[18:32.820 --> 18:33.660]  Well, maybe I'll try that later.
[18:34.080 --> 18:36.360]  That's what I'm going to invite you to do on, I'll watch.
[18:36.520 --> 18:37.300]  Okay, well, that's not fun.
[18:37.300 --> 18:38.800]  So anyway, you went over to the agent, you said.
[18:38.820 --> 18:39.660]  Well, yeah, I went to the agent.
[18:39.740 --> 18:40.240]  I saw him.
[18:40.400 --> 18:44.460]  Um, and he, uh, he demanded my two cards, uh, which I gave to him.
[18:44.520 --> 18:47.920]  And he was able to read both of them and tell me which one was old and which one wasn't old.
[18:48.100 --> 18:49.640]  I don't know why I couldn't do that.
[18:49.880 --> 18:54.880]  Uh, you know, apparently the software is such that it doesn't, it only knows to say see agent for any fun pass.
[18:54.880 --> 18:55.700]  I think that's kind of funny.
[18:55.720 --> 19:02.040]  But you get that sometimes if you have a dirty reader, a dirty card, a bent card, lots of things will make it say see agent.
[19:02.520 --> 19:04.400]  But this is any fun pass.
[19:04.620 --> 19:07.280]  An old fun pass or a new fun pass will say see agent.
[19:07.480 --> 19:09.560]  Instead of saying this has already been used, don't even bother.
[19:10.000 --> 19:14.200]  So it's kind of a disadvantage because you don't know, uh, you know, if it's old or new.
[19:14.440 --> 19:15.580]  Now, I haven't found that.
[19:15.920 --> 19:19.000]  The, the few times I've, I've seen a fun pass gone through...
[19:19.000 --> 19:21.300]  Have you tried this since, since the fare increase?
[19:21.500 --> 19:21.780]  No.
[19:22.040 --> 19:23.920]  Then I suggest you try it because...
[19:23.920 --> 19:27.960]  But I'm saying the few times previous I've seen a fun pass used, it doesn't do that.
[19:28.100 --> 19:29.660]  Yes, they may have screwed up the software.
[19:29.660 --> 19:35.000]  Yeah, but my point is, my point is that things have changed because of the fare increase, which is why I tried this.
[19:35.180 --> 19:41.120]  So if you, if you put an old fun pass, and this is the last time I'm going to say this, into one of those machines, it's going to say see agent.
[19:41.280 --> 19:44.120]  If you put a new fun pass, you know, one that you just bought now, it's going to work.
[19:44.200 --> 19:46.540]  But if you put one that's unused, it's still going to say see agent.
[19:46.700 --> 19:51.760]  You see the agent, he reads them on some other machine that can, uh, tell you more information about it, apparently.
[19:59.760 --> 20:02.160]  I'm going to send it in, hopefully they'll, I don't know what they're going to send you back.
[20:02.320 --> 20:04.280]  The TA is going to mail you a check for $4?
[20:04.700 --> 20:05.140]  I don't know.
[20:05.340 --> 20:08.460]  They, they do on rare occasions, usually they'll send you back a fun pass.
[20:09.020 --> 20:11.040]  But they can't send them a fun pass, it won't be good.
[20:11.860 --> 20:14.380]  It's funny because they, they ask for the balance remaining.
[20:14.720 --> 20:17.620]  Now they're not going to send me a fun pass because they only paid $4 for it and now they cost $7.
[20:18.220 --> 20:19.180]  No, isn't it $9?
[20:19.660 --> 20:20.300]  No, $7.
[20:20.440 --> 20:20.900]  It's only $7.
[20:21.540 --> 20:24.160]  Um, yeah, so I, I gotta, I gotta do all that.
[20:24.260 --> 20:25.220]  We'll experiment some more.
[20:25.240 --> 20:25.460]  That'll be fun.
[20:25.620 --> 20:26.840]  We'll, we'll keep people updated on it.
[20:26.840 --> 20:27.380]  I have a...
[20:27.380 --> 20:29.680]  I only meant to spend 30 seconds on this story, by the way, so...
[20:29.680 --> 20:31.000]  Oh, I'll spend 30 more.
[20:31.160 --> 20:37.640]  I have a seven, uh, a 30-day purchase before the fare increase, which I will have to use after midnight tonight.
[20:37.940 --> 20:39.360]  And we'll see what happens with that, too.
[20:39.900 --> 20:40.580]  Uh, okay.
[20:40.580 --> 20:46.440]  Actually, if you, the, the Metrico branding machines tell you what the, like, there's a time period, a grace period.
[20:46.580 --> 20:49.100]  So for the one-day fun passes, it was one day.
[20:49.580 --> 20:51.320]  Like, May 5th, you could still use it.
[20:51.460 --> 20:51.620]  Right.
[20:51.680 --> 20:53.940]  But then, for the rest of them, they haven't run out yet.
[20:53.960 --> 20:55.920]  Yeah, and today is, I believe, May 7th, right?
[20:56.080 --> 20:56.580]  So, uh...
[20:56.580 --> 20:56.740]  Yes.
[20:56.840 --> 20:58.100]  Grace period is long expired.
[20:58.800 --> 21:01.100]  Uh, yeah, so we're, uh, we're looking at that.
[21:01.220 --> 21:05.360]  It's, it's probably a good thing we didn't hoard the, uh, you know, the, uh, fun passes like we were thinking of doing.
[21:06.000 --> 21:08.060]  I hoarded one, so that's what happened.
[21:08.560 --> 21:10.200]  Uh, okay, what else is going on?
[21:10.300 --> 21:16.680]  We have, uh, anybody use the, uh, the new, um, uh, Apple computer, uh, iTunes, uh, music service?
[21:16.940 --> 21:17.620]  You guys heard about this?
[21:17.680 --> 21:18.780]  Uh, there's a man waving here.
[21:19.200 --> 21:19.900]  Okay, I don't even...
[21:19.900 --> 21:20.480]  Oh, there you are.
[21:20.700 --> 21:20.960]  Okay.
[21:21.680 --> 21:22.760]  Uh, did you use it yourself?
[21:23.240 --> 21:23.840]  Yeah, I did.
[21:23.960 --> 21:24.180]  You did?
[21:24.340 --> 21:24.500]  Okay.
[21:26.580 --> 21:27.580]  Uh, what exactly is it?
[21:27.580 --> 21:28.880]  You pay 99 cents for a song?
[21:29.000 --> 21:31.720]  Yeah, 99 cents for a song, 9.99 for an album.
[21:31.960 --> 21:32.160]  Uh-huh.
[21:32.640 --> 21:35.820]  Uh, what if the album has, uh, you know, 30 songs?
[21:36.200 --> 21:37.960]  Uh, well then you got 30 songs.
[21:37.960 --> 21:40.280]  But do you pay 30 times 99, or do you pay 9.99?
[21:40.440 --> 21:41.320]  You pay 9.99.
[21:41.540 --> 21:42.780]  What if the album has two songs?
[21:42.920 --> 21:43.700]  You still pay 9.99?
[21:43.740 --> 21:47.760]  I believe you still pay 9.99, although, yeah.
[21:47.940 --> 21:49.440]  I would just download the two songs separately.
[21:49.600 --> 21:50.520]  Yeah, you could do that.
[21:50.960 --> 22:01.640]  Um, okay, because my question is, uh, you download these songs, um, you know, like 9.99, that's what I consider to be, you know, it's still a bit expensive for a CD, considering how much it costs them to make.
[22:02.340 --> 22:09.040]  Um, but, uh, you're not getting the packaging, you know, and, and, and you're, you're not, you have to supply the CD, obviously.
[22:09.260 --> 22:10.700]  Well, there's a convenience factor.
[22:10.920 --> 22:12.880]  If you need it fast, yeah, it's good for that.
[22:13.120 --> 22:24.140]  Well, I mean, you, you're, you're kind of, it seems like a good idea, but you're getting a raw deal in the end, because, you know, if you were paying $15 for the CD, well, you know, they manufactured the CD, and they had the case, and they had whatever came with it,
[22:24.160 --> 22:26.840]  and now you're just getting the songs for almost the same cost.
[22:26.960 --> 22:27.140]  Right.
[22:27.140 --> 22:34.800]  So, I mean, it's really beyond the initial cost of putting it up, or at least putting the data up, they're not paying any extra than they would.
[22:35.100 --> 22:35.300]  Mm-hmm.
[22:35.900 --> 22:42.940]  Well, uh, they say, they say their new digital music service, the iTunes Music Store, sold more than 1 million downloads in the first week.
[22:43.440 --> 22:51.380]  Um, that's, uh, according to Billboard Bulletin, uh, the figure roughly matches the download sales to date by all other digital music services combined.
[22:51.660 --> 22:52.020]  That's...
[22:52.020 --> 22:52.440]  To date.
[22:52.580 --> 22:52.700]  Wow.
[22:52.860 --> 22:53.620]  All other music, wow.
[22:53.860 --> 22:54.500]  That is amazing.
[22:54.500 --> 22:57.340]  Uh, those Mac people are fanatics when they, uh, find software they like.
[22:57.540 --> 23:02.720]  Uh, anyway, more than half the songs priced at 99 cents each were bought from iTunes in album bundles.
[23:02.900 --> 23:07.400]  Uh, more than half of the 200,000 songs available via the service were purchased at least once.
[23:08.080 --> 23:13.280]  Uh, and top sellers included tracks by U2, Coldplay, Eminem, Nora Jones, Sting, and Sheryl Crow.
[23:13.940 --> 23:25.020]  Our internal measure of success was having the iTunes Music Store sell 1 million songs in the first month to do this in one week is an over-the-top success, according to, uh, the Universal Music Group chairman, Doug Morris.
[23:25.780 --> 23:29.400]  Uh, Apple is adding another 3,200 tracks to the service today.
[23:30.160 --> 23:31.880]  Um, I guess that's the other thing.
[23:31.880 --> 23:35.660]  They don't have all that much music on there, you know, compared to what's, what's out there in the world.
[23:35.800 --> 23:38.340]  But, um, yeah, I mean, it could be a, a convenience thing.
[23:38.400 --> 23:38.700]  I don't know.
[23:38.820 --> 23:45.600]  I'd like to know from listeners if they consider that a viable means of obtaining music and, uh, if that makes them sleep better at night.
[23:45.720 --> 23:46.120]  You can download all the stuff for free.
[23:46.240 --> 23:47.600]  You can download all the stuff for free, yeah.
[23:47.740 --> 23:50.180]  Not, not that anyone I know would ever dream of knowing.
[23:50.580 --> 23:52.700]  Well, I mean, come on, let's face facts here.
[23:52.780 --> 23:54.040]  A lot of people are doing just this.
[23:54.160 --> 23:58.900]  But my question is, does that mean that they're, you know, that they're ripping off the, uh, the industry?
[23:59.120 --> 24:04.360]  Uh, I was talking about this yesterday on the other show about, uh, you know, people, when they're kids, they never buy records.
[24:04.480 --> 24:05.820]  They're always trading it in some way.
[24:05.900 --> 24:09.480]  When I was a kid, I recorded things off the radio or I traded cassette tapes with friends.
[24:09.480 --> 24:11.200]  Now people are getting it off the internet.
[24:13.180 --> 24:18.940]  To, uh, mature and actually have the means to, um, you know, to, to get these things, you buy the ones that, that are your favorites.
[24:19.260 --> 24:21.960]  You buy the ones that, uh, you know, you want to have the originals of.
[24:22.240 --> 24:24.700]  And you wouldn't have known that if you didn't listen to them in the first place.
[24:25.300 --> 24:26.580]  So, uh, I don't know.
[24:26.680 --> 24:33.680]  If the RIAA had its, uh, stranglehold on the industry back, uh, when I was a kid, I probably wouldn't have listened to as much music as, uh, as I have.
[24:33.860 --> 24:42.040]  Now I wonder, now that you're paying for the digital music, can you have your, give it to your friends and lend it to them as long as you're not listening to it at the same time?
[24:42.040 --> 24:48.280]  Well, I don't know how they're going to determine that, but I, I, I think they, they say that, yes, that's permissible, as if they have to tell you what's permissible or not.
[24:48.760 --> 24:49.260]  Uh, well...
[24:49.260 --> 24:51.520]  I think technically it's, it's, it's certainly possible, right?
[24:51.920 --> 24:55.400]  Uh, well, the, um, the files are AAC files.
[24:55.520 --> 24:56.880]  Yeah, they're not MP3s.
[24:56.960 --> 25:03.080]  Yeah, and they, um, they have DRM, um, so you can only play them on up to three Macs.
[25:03.200 --> 25:06.740]  And in order to allow a Mac to play it, you have to authorize that Mac.
[25:06.860 --> 25:12.180]  And if you want a fourth Mac to be able to play it, you have to deauthorize one of those Macs and authorize the fourth one.
[25:13.060 --> 25:13.440]  Um...
[25:13.440 --> 25:15.620]  Okay, now, I, I think the whole thing's silly now.
[25:15.760 --> 25:16.160]  Well, you...
[25:16.160 --> 25:16.680]  It really is.
[25:16.920 --> 25:22.300]  You are allowed to burn it, but, um, you can only burn a certain playlist ten times.
[25:22.940 --> 25:23.180]  Uh-huh.
[25:24.520 --> 25:26.160]  Uh, but, oh boy.
[25:26.340 --> 25:37.520]  You see, when they start going crazy over the number of times you can listen or share or something like that, it's sort of, it defeats the whole purpose of music in the first place, which is to hear it and, and tell people about it and get them interested in it.
[25:38.220 --> 25:38.580]  However...
[25:38.580 --> 25:39.020]  Yes, Bernie.
[25:39.260 --> 25:47.180]  Uh, you can rip this, you can use other software, I believe, to rip these songs to, uh, uh, to another format.
[25:47.880 --> 25:48.040]  Uh-huh.
[25:48.040 --> 25:50.280]  And, uh, or like an audio, to an audio CD.
[25:50.720 --> 25:52.740]  And then you can make as many copies of that as you want it.
[25:52.980 --> 25:53.380]  Isn't that right?
[25:53.800 --> 25:55.100]  Yeah, I, I, I think so.
[25:55.840 --> 25:58.680]  You know, I, I really want to tell the industry, though, something.
[25:58.680 --> 26:04.140]  And I think this is an important, uh, a bit of advice, both for the film industry and for the music industry.
[26:04.760 --> 26:14.020]  Obviously, obviously, you're very concerned about, uh, music in the digital age and how, uh, how things can be copied and how you lose control and things like that.
[26:14.160 --> 26:22.600]  My suggestion, since obviously these two things are not compatible, your business needs and the, uh, the digital, uh, music scene, go back to analog.
[26:22.900 --> 26:24.560]  Put things out on, on vinyl, okay?
[26:24.900 --> 26:28.580]  You know, then we have to make copies of things and they, they won't sound as good.
[26:28.580 --> 26:30.520]  But it won't be perfect, so people will want the original.
[26:31.080 --> 26:35.420]  Let the people that, that want to embrace the digital technology, embrace it on their own.
[26:35.700 --> 26:38.320]  You know, people can put out CDs at their own risk, okay?
[26:38.700 --> 26:46.540]  And if, you know, 25 million people, you know, download it and only, like, 5 million people pay for it, well, that's something the artists are just going to have to deal with.
[26:46.680 --> 26:54.260]  And they won't have to deal with it with you guys because you'll be putting out vinyl records and getting the profit from those because people will have to buy them if they want the original.
[26:54.480 --> 26:55.300]  How's that for advice?
[26:55.740 --> 26:57.180]  How many people are going to buy vinyl?
[26:57.180 --> 26:58.620]  Well, that's not my problem, is it?
[26:59.640 --> 27:03.440]  I'm just trying to get them out of this uncomfortable position they've gotten themselves into, you know?
[27:03.560 --> 27:05.000]  And I really think we should encourage them to do that.
[27:05.100 --> 27:06.660]  We'll have two different classes of artists.
[27:06.800 --> 27:16.980]  We'll have, you know, the corporate vinyl artist and then we'll have the modern digital artists who don't have the RIAA breathing down their necks and who pretty much control their own, you know, their own future.
[27:17.740 --> 27:24.440]  And then the latest thing also was a return to some of the evil things that the RIAA is doing.
[27:25.200 --> 27:27.840]  And this was in the New York Times on May 4th.
[27:28.000 --> 27:41.320]  Some of the world's biggest record companies facing rampant online piracy are quietly financing the development and testing of software programs that would sabotage the computers and internet connections of people who downloaded pirated music, according to industry executives.
[27:41.420 --> 27:42.840]  Mike, you've got the same story in front of you, don't you?
[27:42.840 --> 27:43.100]  Yes.
[27:43.520 --> 27:44.200]  So, uh...
[27:44.200 --> 27:58.940]  The record companies, they're exploring options on new countermeasures, which some experts say have varying degrees of legality, to deter online theft, from attacking personal internet connections so as to slow or halt downloads of pirated music, to overwhelming the distribution networks,
[27:59.020 --> 28:01.840]  with potentially malicious programs that masquerade...
[28:01.840 --> 28:03.460]  Masquerade as music files, yeah.
[28:04.340 --> 28:06.300]  Okay, we have, we both have the same article.
[28:06.420 --> 28:07.680]  Bernie, I think you might even have this article.
[28:08.340 --> 28:08.740]  I don't.
[28:08.820 --> 28:09.500]  You don't have this article?
[28:09.520 --> 28:09.660]  I left out.
[28:09.860 --> 28:10.900]  Okay, so much for the trio.
[28:10.900 --> 28:27.100]  Uh, basically what they're saying here is that, uh, they would like to, uh, to be able to attack people with, uh, I guess everything from denial of service attacks to, uh, to redirection, uh, to plain old sabotage on your computer if they suspect that you have pirated music.
[28:27.220 --> 28:33.700]  Now, you know, there's many instances where they could, uh, believe that you're doing something, that you're up to something, but you really aren't.
[28:34.120 --> 28:40.960]  And there's also many innocent people that could be victimized as well while they're, uh, you know, doing whatever they're doing to your computer.
[28:41.680 --> 28:50.440]  Um, basically, I'm not sure what the technical things that are going on here, uh, but it's, uh, it's known as a covert campaign.
[28:50.720 --> 28:57.260]  Uh, a lot of it is already considered illegal under state-federal wiretap laws, uh, but they're working on this.
[28:57.460 --> 29:07.340]  They're, they're, they're blatantly working on this kind of a thing that if, uh, hackers were doing, they would be labeled as terrorists, uh, to protect their corporate interest in their eyes.
[29:07.500 --> 29:10.320]  They, uh, they feel they have the right to, um, to do this kind of a thing.
[29:10.540 --> 29:21.700]  Uh, they, they have a program which, um, which freezes up a computer system for a certain duration, uh, minutes, possibly even hours, uh, risking the loss of data that was unsaved if the computer is restarted.
[29:21.960 --> 29:25.120]  Uh, it also displays a warning about downloading pirated music.
[29:25.900 --> 29:33.480]  Uh, another program under development called Silence scans a computer's hard drive for pirated music files and attempts to delete them.
[29:33.840 --> 29:37.640]  How in God's name does it know a pirated music file from a, from a normal music file?
[29:37.720 --> 29:38.140]  I don't know.
[29:38.680 --> 29:46.680]  Uh, well, you know, one of the executives briefed on the Silence program said that it did not work properly and was being reworked because it was deleting legitimate music files too.
[29:46.800 --> 29:47.220]  That's right.
[29:47.280 --> 29:48.160]  And that's what's going to happen.
[29:48.360 --> 29:49.980]  You know, that's what software is going to do.
[29:50.080 --> 29:50.860]  It's going to make mistakes.
[29:50.900 --> 29:56.660]  And, uh, when you invade on other people's computers, uh, you know, we've always said this is, it's wrong to do things like that.
[29:56.760 --> 30:00.660]  And we mean it, you know, it's wrong no matter who, uh, who is in charge.
[30:00.660 --> 30:05.560]  And it's, it's interesting to see, you know, when it's the government doing something, they can break the laws.
[30:05.700 --> 30:08.000]  When it's corporations doing something, they can break the laws.
[30:08.160 --> 30:10.720]  When it's, you know, individuals doing something, oh, that's got to be stopped.
[30:11.340 --> 30:14.580]  You know, the, the laws don't apply in both directions apparently.
[30:14.900 --> 30:23.100]  Well, you remember, um, the Berman bill, um, a while ago, not that long ago, which aimed to make it legal for them to do all these things.
[30:23.260 --> 30:26.440]  Fortunately, it didn't go very far, but, uh, could come back.
[30:26.460 --> 30:27.380]  Yeah, but, you know, it keeps coming back.
[30:27.500 --> 30:28.900]  This is another example of it coming back.
[30:28.900 --> 30:33.940]  And the Super DMCA is already paving the way for this, these remote downgrades that they're going to permit.
[30:34.140 --> 30:34.680]  Right, right.
[30:35.860 --> 30:36.220]  Unreal.
[30:37.340 --> 30:40.980]  You'd think that this was a joke, some of the things that they're actually plotting and scheming.
[30:41.820 --> 30:43.640]  And, you know, is this going to win over their customers?
[30:43.640 --> 30:44.520]  I kind of doubt it.
[30:44.660 --> 30:45.620]  I really kind of doubt it.
[30:46.740 --> 30:50.860]  Okay, let's listen to, or let's read a couple pieces of listener email.
[30:51.080 --> 30:55.440]  You can email us, OTH at 2600.com, with any comments on the program.
[30:56.360 --> 31:00.100]  Please try to keep it clean, though, and, you know, keep the insults to a minimum.
[31:00.260 --> 31:01.180]  Hey, I like hate mail.
[31:01.480 --> 31:02.520]  Yeah, hate mail can be kind of fun.
[31:02.620 --> 31:06.020]  In fact, we have a couple pieces of hate mail that we'll read.
[31:07.020 --> 31:11.540]  This person just wants to know, though, what the song is for both the intro to Off the Hook and also Off the Wall.
[31:11.620 --> 31:13.320]  Well, we actually heard both just now.
[31:13.800 --> 31:18.800]  The intro to Off the Hook, of course, comes from a big audio dynamite flip side of a single.
[31:19.520 --> 31:23.720]  It's called Much Worse, and the other side of the single is called Just Play Music.
[31:23.720 --> 31:29.100]  The Off the Wall theme comes from the third in a series of movies.
[31:29.880 --> 31:31.820]  First was Kaneskatsi.
[31:31.920 --> 31:32.920]  The second was Powakatsi.
[31:33.020 --> 31:38.500]  The third one is Nagoya Katsi, I believe is the correct way of pronouncing it.
[31:38.800 --> 31:43.000]  And it's spelled N-A-Q-O-Y-Q-A-T-S-I.
[31:43.100 --> 31:44.180]  That's right, Hopi Indian.
[31:45.820 --> 31:48.540]  And it's a piece called Point Blank.
[31:48.700 --> 31:50.900]  That's the theme there.
[31:50.900 --> 31:52.380]  So, okay, they answered that question.
[31:53.540 --> 31:55.060]  This person has some comments.
[31:55.140 --> 31:56.340]  In fact, we've got a lot of comments about this.
[31:56.840 --> 32:01.280]  On the April 30th show, we discussed the customer loyalty cards at grocery stores.
[32:01.560 --> 32:03.120]  I currently have two of them.
[32:03.220 --> 32:10.780]  A couple of years ago, when they were new in our area, if you didn't have one, the checker would offer you one at the checkout and use the card to give you the discount on that purchase.
[32:11.380 --> 32:17.800]  Attached to the card was an application that they wanted you to fill out with your name and address and return to the store to be put into their database.
[32:18.120 --> 32:20.920]  I probably got six or eight of them before I decided to keep one.
[32:21.060 --> 32:22.480]  I never return the applications.
[32:22.560 --> 32:25.320]  The card still works, and they have no idea who I am.
[32:25.840 --> 32:29.960]  They still get the demographics that are valuable to them, but without the privacy concerns to me.
[32:30.100 --> 32:31.120]  That's not how they do it by me.
[32:31.200 --> 32:32.440]  They don't hand me the application.
[32:32.440 --> 32:34.860]  They just ask, you know, if I have a card, and I say no.
[32:35.120 --> 32:36.980]  Last time I went there, they said, did you bring your card?
[32:37.360 --> 32:40.660]  You know, everybody has a card, and I just said no, and I got the discount anyway.
[32:40.880 --> 32:43.980]  Yeah, by me, they, you know, if you don't have one, it doesn't matter.
[32:44.080 --> 32:45.200]  They'll just swipe you.
[32:45.200 --> 32:48.740]  I don't quite know what's being accomplished with their own cards.
[32:48.940 --> 32:50.700]  Wow, so they must be getting credit for something.
[32:51.340 --> 32:55.700]  The second store just introduced them last year, and they were a bit more stingy about handing out new cards.
[32:55.860 --> 33:03.920]  They wanted to know name, address, phone number, and they don't have a problem holding up everyone in line behind you while the checker fills out the application before handing over the card.
[33:04.080 --> 33:04.360]  Great.
[33:04.920 --> 33:09.460]  I've heard in some places of people getting together and swapping these cards to calm their privacy fears.
[33:10.300 --> 33:19.500]  Personally, and this is funny, the only time I've seen somebody complain about providing their name and address in line ended up paying with a check, so I'm not quite sure what their concern was.
[33:21.300 --> 33:31.020]  So, yeah, also suggesting a new feature of 2600 meetings, the A&P card swap, and it's a great idea, something that we hopefully implemented in a few meetings last week.
[33:31.220 --> 33:32.860]  Bernie, I think you had some information on this.
[33:33.120 --> 33:35.820]  Yeah, Simon wrote in with some good information.
[33:36.040 --> 33:39.080]  Simon lives in Atlanta, and he's a short thing.
[33:39.240 --> 33:39.800]  Can I read it?
[33:39.840 --> 33:40.320]  It's pretty funny.
[33:40.500 --> 33:41.000]  Yeah, yeah.
[33:41.240 --> 33:41.740]  Definitely, go ahead.
[33:41.860 --> 33:46.680]  Simon says, I live in Atlanta, and here we have a plethora of supermarket chains with membership cards.
[33:46.860 --> 33:55.280]  In the Publix supermarkets, the self-checkout scales are so accurate, but they can tell if you do not put a single packet of Kool-Aid on the scale.
[33:55.900 --> 34:02.240]  And I know people who use them to purchase liquor underage, since the person watching can rarely be bothered to check ID.
[34:02.820 --> 34:12.480]  And as far as the membership cards go, all mine are registered to Samwise Gamgee's at 312 Underhill Lane, Middle Earth, 22323.
[34:12.940 --> 34:13.660]  My goodness.
[34:13.980 --> 34:18.120]  What is more fun is that the cards do not need to be activated to work.
[34:18.120 --> 34:21.940]  So you can take one from a blank application, and the card will still work.
[34:22.440 --> 34:23.240]  Also for...
[34:23.240 --> 34:24.060]  This is the great part.
[34:24.340 --> 34:36.840]  Also for fun, I scanned mine and printed the barcode on that temporary tattoo paper they have and went to the store, and when they asked me for my card, I rolled up my sleeve and scanned the barcode for my arm.
[34:37.720 --> 34:39.960]  Suffice to say, I got lots of odd looks.
[34:40.860 --> 34:41.780]  That is brilliant.
[34:41.940 --> 34:42.840]  In fact, why not?
[34:42.860 --> 34:51.640]  I mean, that's what we're moving towards in the first place, is a society where, you know, it's all on our arm anyway, so you just hold your arm up to the scanner, and you get your discount that way, and they certainly know who you are.
[34:52.000 --> 34:52.940]  And he said one other thing.
[34:53.080 --> 35:12.000]  He said, the government sequesters the info on what you buy, and I would not recommend using one real person's card with many people, because if, say, a thousand people, each buy two packs of Sudafed each, you will get checked out by the FBI because you will be making crystal methamphetamine.
[35:12.580 --> 35:15.800]  Apparently that's a precursor chemical in Sudafed.
[35:15.800 --> 35:17.060]  Well, okay, hold on a second.
[35:17.300 --> 35:24.780]  Now, do we know for a fact that the government will monitor these lists and go after people who buy suspicious things?
[35:24.820 --> 35:25.680]  Do we know that for a fact?
[35:25.900 --> 35:28.200]  There was a new story about this several months ago.
[35:28.200 --> 35:30.680]  I think I actually sent you a copy of it, but I don't have it in front of me.
[35:30.680 --> 35:40.020]  That the FBI is now sharing that information with major supermarket chains looking for suspicious combinations of household products.
[35:40.300 --> 35:48.940]  There's all kinds of different household products you can combine to make nasty things, whether they're explosives or crystal methamphetamines or whatever.
[35:48.940 --> 36:02.340]  If a BAI listener would like to put themselves on the line here and buy, say, a thousand packages of Sudafed and resist the temptation to develop crystal meth out of it, let's just see what happens.
[36:02.460 --> 36:03.260]  You know, I'd like to know.
[36:03.400 --> 36:13.960]  I really would like to know if bells are triggered because if we have a very public instance of this happening, then all of a sudden this whole loyalty thing gets shot to hell where it belongs.
[36:14.600 --> 36:18.840]  But I'd like to have some cold, hard evidence, you know, saying that this happened to an actual person.
[36:18.840 --> 36:22.600]  And if we can find a story that says that in the past, I'd like to focus on that.
[36:23.740 --> 36:41.780]  It wouldn't surprise me in the least, having dealt with the feds before, if, say, you were arrested for some suspicious, whatever, they don't need anything to arrest you on these days, and they found a supermarket card in your wallet, I have no question in my mind that the FBI with its vast resources or whatever law enforcement agency grabs you,
[36:41.780 --> 36:45.400]  that they would subpoena or probably don't even need to subpoena.
[36:45.660 --> 36:49.060]  Let's talk about Sudafed before it gets to the federal government.
[36:49.580 --> 36:54.900]  I'm a Costco member, and I've taken Sudafed for a fairly long time, probably more than...
[36:54.900 --> 36:55.360]  You are a Costco.
[36:55.380 --> 36:56.680]  I always suspected that of you.
[36:57.120 --> 36:58.760]  Well, it's good for you that you can admit it.
[36:59.520 --> 36:59.960]  Good.
[37:00.060 --> 37:00.200]  Okay.
[37:00.320 --> 37:00.680]  No, go ahead.
[37:00.800 --> 37:01.180]  Continue.
[37:01.280 --> 37:01.540]  I'm sorry.
[37:01.680 --> 37:04.180]  And I've used Sudafed more than is probably healthy.
[37:04.340 --> 37:10.820]  But anyway, past couple of years at Costco, they will not let you buy more than 200 pills.
[37:11.780 --> 37:13.400]  It used to come in bottles of 100.
[37:13.700 --> 37:15.320]  They've ended that, the manufacturer.
[37:15.500 --> 37:17.460]  Now it comes in blister packs of 96.
[37:18.140 --> 37:21.980]  Costco will not let you buy more than two of them in a day.
[37:22.100 --> 37:23.320]  What will they say if you try?
[37:23.680 --> 37:25.780]  They will say, you know, you can't do this.
[37:25.920 --> 37:26.420]  But why?
[37:26.520 --> 37:27.960]  I mean, you're obviously going to ask why.
[37:28.320 --> 37:30.300]  They just say, no, it's just corporate policy.
[37:30.340 --> 37:31.000]  I've asked them.
[37:31.100 --> 37:31.660]  I've gone through this.
[37:31.680 --> 37:34.300]  Is it because they don't want too many people to be experiencing the savings?
[37:34.380 --> 37:34.560]  No.
[37:34.880 --> 37:37.080]  I've read the same article as Bernie.
[37:37.140 --> 37:37.980]  I don't remember where it was.
[37:38.000 --> 37:40.740]  I think it was the New York Times about a year and a couple months ago.
[37:41.960 --> 37:46.980]  And essentially, it's, yes, Sudafed is a precursor for making crystal meth, methamphetamines.
[37:47.840 --> 37:50.000]  What if you have a lot of people back home that need Sudafed?
[37:50.360 --> 37:51.800]  Everybody should go to the store and buy their own.
[37:52.500 --> 37:54.940]  But then everybody has to become a member of Costco to do that.
[37:55.100 --> 37:55.280]  Yeah.
[37:55.480 --> 37:56.140]  Oh, boy.
[37:56.680 --> 37:58.240]  Life just gets more difficult, doesn't it?
[37:58.380 --> 37:58.620]  Yes, it does.
[37:58.620 --> 38:01.880]  Is that you bring both packages at once or do it separately?
[38:02.960 --> 38:03.700]  Both at once.
[38:03.800 --> 38:06.640]  And I've tried to go back, like, the same day.
[38:07.000 --> 38:09.340]  Different pharma, whatever person.
[38:09.520 --> 38:10.500]  You've got a different Costco.
[38:10.740 --> 38:12.460]  They could be tracking you and knowing that you're out to buy it.
[38:12.460 --> 38:19.760]  Well, you know, obviously, with the Costco card, they have the scanner and they read the number off the barcode on the card.
[38:20.140 --> 38:22.580]  And, yeah, they punch it in.
[38:22.660 --> 38:25.180]  And the computer is geared so it doesn't take it.
[38:25.840 --> 38:27.540]  Well, Simon makes a good point.
[38:27.540 --> 38:49.380]  If a whole bunch of people like you all purchased these Sudafed packs and you all shared the same barcode because you made copies of the card to get extra discounts or whatever, it would show up as one person buying huge amounts of this precursor chemical.
[38:49.400 --> 38:50.400]  Well, here's another thing.
[38:50.520 --> 38:53.740]  Let's suppose we don't do it at Costco where there's a photo on the card.
[38:53.760 --> 38:57.040]  Let's do it in Key Food or Food Town or Food Department or whatever.
[38:58.420 --> 39:12.100]  If they're widely scattered and you've got a purchase at noon and a purchase at 10 afternoon and one's in California and the other's in New York or wherever these supermarket chains are, but widely scattered, the feds are going to have to come to their senses,
[39:12.100 --> 39:12.560]  I hope.
[39:12.620 --> 39:15.260]  Well, no, they'll think it's a vast conspiracy and arrest everybody.
[39:17.920 --> 39:20.900]  I think the moral of the story is don't use crystal meth.
[39:21.020 --> 39:25.940]  And if you do use crystal meth, if you're a crystal meth user, don't share barcodes because it's bad for yourself.
[39:25.940 --> 39:27.120]  Well, who's talking about using crystal meth?
[39:27.280 --> 39:29.140]  They're talking about, you know, people who like Sudafed.
[39:29.400 --> 39:29.540]  Yeah.
[39:29.660 --> 39:31.620]  People who want to buy a lot of, you know, stock up.
[39:31.720 --> 39:36.140]  Maybe there's like, you know, a nuclear winter coming and you need a lot of Sudafed to last for the generation.
[39:36.580 --> 39:37.120]  I don't know.
[39:37.220 --> 39:37.820]  There's all kinds of reasons.
[39:37.820 --> 39:39.500]  Nuclear winter triggers allergies right here.
[39:39.560 --> 39:45.540]  The point is if you start getting targeted because of what you buy, that's a very grave danger we're facing.
[39:45.560 --> 39:47.940]  So I think that's something I'd like to experiment with a little bit.
[39:47.940 --> 39:51.020]  Not crystal meth, but, you know, the Sudafed purchases.
[39:51.420 --> 39:53.880]  On that same topic, hasn't the U.S.
[39:53.940 --> 40:04.120]  military recently been nailed for giving pilots some variation of this methamphetamine to keep the pilots awake?
[40:04.140 --> 40:05.620]  And didn't the Nazis do the same thing?
[40:06.120 --> 40:07.540]  Yes, the Nazis did.
[40:07.560 --> 40:14.140]  Yes, it's been common in warfare since, I believe, World War I, definitely during and since World War II.
[40:14.140 --> 40:16.100]  And I don't know about nailed.
[40:16.280 --> 40:24.680]  I think that's the defense that those airmen are using, the ones that hit the gondola cable in Italy a few years back, killing about 20 people.
[40:26.540 --> 40:31.900]  And, yeah, it's come something to the surface in the Gulf War II.
[40:33.160 --> 40:34.340]  Gulf War II.
[40:34.540 --> 40:35.100]  Gulf War II.
[40:35.480 --> 40:36.300]  Gulf War II, the sequel.
[40:36.960 --> 40:37.620]  That's good.
[40:37.780 --> 40:41.000]  Yeah, and the prequel to the real horror ahead, but never mind that.
[40:41.480 --> 40:48.360]  Yeah, but I don't know about nailed, but, yeah, it's become common knowledge that it's used to keep these guys going in long missions.
[40:48.760 --> 40:51.900]  Okay, we have a sort of interesting story here as well.
[40:52.000 --> 40:54.180]  Our phone number, by the way, 212-209-2900.
[40:54.280 --> 40:55.620]  We're going to take phone calls momentarily.
[40:56.620 --> 41:02.460]  Bernie, I think you found this one of somebody who blamed hackers.
[41:02.460 --> 41:24.420]  School board president Peggy Cooper Kaffritz was trying to explain why an essay bylined by her that denounced school board vouchers was on her website a month after she endorsed school vouchers in a Washington Post op-ed.
[41:25.040 --> 41:27.780]  And her quote was this.
[41:27.920 --> 41:28.760]  I did not write that.
[41:28.880 --> 41:29.680]  That's really scary.
[41:29.920 --> 41:37.540]  I guess somebody had to have hacked into my website because I sure as hell didn't put it up there because it's not mine.
[41:37.720 --> 41:38.360]  She said hell?
[41:38.760 --> 41:40.200]  She said hell, yes.
[41:40.440 --> 41:41.000]  She did.
[41:41.340 --> 41:45.220]  And so she was pretty adamant about that.
[41:45.220 --> 41:55.060]  And she later retracted those comments after her former executive assistant said in an interview that he and Kaffritz had written the essay last year and that she had approved it.
[41:56.380 --> 42:00.660]  So then her latest quote, I apologize for telling you something that was untrue.
[42:01.220 --> 42:02.280]  Hackers made me do it.
[42:02.640 --> 42:03.680]  I have an idea.
[42:04.280 --> 42:05.600]  Sort of off tangent.
[42:05.860 --> 42:12.040]  Why can't we just start a company, call it Hackers Incorporated, and any time anybody alleges something by hackers, we sue them.
[42:12.040 --> 42:13.780]  We can sue them because they're blaming us for something.
[42:13.780 --> 42:16.960]  You know, it's getting to the point where hackers just get blamed for everything.
[42:17.020 --> 42:20.100]  But here's a case, and you know, this should be something that gets more publicity.
[42:20.740 --> 42:21.940]  Bernie, you found this, right?
[42:22.280 --> 42:22.960]  Yeah, it was great.
[42:23.160 --> 42:23.380]  Uh-huh.
[42:25.360 --> 42:29.580]  It's, you know, it's typical people blame hackers when something goes wrong.
[42:29.580 --> 42:43.220]  I've heard it so many times, and they always use this kind of like TV show formula where, well, a hacker must have gotten into my computer system somehow and taken just the information that I was working on and prevented me from finishing it or something bizarre like that.
[42:43.220 --> 42:45.180]  But, you know, in real life, it doesn't work that way.
[42:45.340 --> 42:47.980]  It doesn't, you know, it's not so cut and paste.
[42:48.220 --> 42:56.440]  This was a good story because instead of just hackers being blamed, which always happens, he actually got nailed for blaming hackers when it wasn't hackers.
[42:56.620 --> 42:57.280]  Yeah, yeah.
[42:57.420 --> 42:58.240]  It's a good story.
[42:58.940 --> 43:02.560]  This wasn't enough attention focused on, you know, hackers being exonerated.
[43:02.720 --> 43:05.860]  Just, you know, you still left the impression that this is the kind of thing hackers do.
[43:06.220 --> 43:06.440]  Yeah.
[43:06.440 --> 43:07.940]  Okay, we promised you a nasty letter.
[43:08.000 --> 43:08.400]  Here it is.
[43:09.100 --> 43:11.380]  This is a...
[43:12.080 --> 43:16.600]  Regarding the story we put on our website a while back, students' computers seized for downloading music and movies.
[43:17.780 --> 43:23.040]  The quote from the article, the Naval Academy's action mirrors what occurred in Georgia on a grander scale.
[43:23.600 --> 43:33.580]  Nearly 100 young students with previously bright futures are now without their computers and may face court-martial or other discipline for simply downloading media, which they could hardly afford to purchase otherwise.
[43:33.580 --> 43:37.480]  Otherwise, a court-martial can destroy a student's chances of having a successful military career.
[43:37.540 --> 43:39.540]  I believe, sir, if you penned those words.
[43:39.680 --> 43:40.040]  Yes, I did.
[43:40.120 --> 43:40.320]  Okay.
[43:40.980 --> 43:44.120]  Well, this person says, Oh, please give me a break.
[43:44.300 --> 43:45.140]  Did I pronounce that right?
[43:45.440 --> 43:45.900]  That's good.
[43:46.100 --> 43:48.020]  It's about P-U-H-L-E-E-Z-E.
[43:49.400 --> 43:52.520]  Simply downloading media, which they could hardly afford to purchase otherwise?
[43:52.680 --> 43:55.640]  How about the concept of doing without if you can't afford something?
[43:55.680 --> 43:57.760]  Or is that too lofty a concept for you?
[43:58.260 --> 44:02.000]  If I can't afford expensive clothes or jewelry, does that justify shoplifting?
[44:02.000 --> 44:04.840]  Well, of course, I know in some students' minds it does.
[44:05.060 --> 44:09.760]  If I can't afford expensive toys like televisions, computers, etc., does that justify burglary?
[44:09.940 --> 44:15.960]  If I can't afford cable or premium channels, do I steal it by tapping the cable company's lines or buying an illegal discrambler?
[44:16.520 --> 44:21.740]  With respect to your comment, a court-martial can destroy a student's chances of having a successful military career.
[44:21.980 --> 44:25.020]  It's not the court-martial that's destroyed the successful military career.
[44:25.040 --> 44:28.060]  It's the actions of the students who violated the honor code by stealing.
[44:28.060 --> 44:29.220]  Yes, that's right.
[44:29.420 --> 44:32.360]  No other word for it, and therefore, are not worthy of a military career.
[44:32.620 --> 44:34.600]  You have to be able to trust officers in the military.
[44:34.840 --> 44:38.480]  It's not as if they weren't warned that violation of the honor code could result in this action.
[44:38.740 --> 44:41.640]  Sorry, I'll save my pity for those who deserve it.
[44:41.800 --> 44:42.700]  Signed, Larry.
[44:44.400 --> 44:45.820]  Well, what do you think, Seraph?
[44:46.500 --> 44:48.440]  Kind of raked us over the coals with that one.
[44:48.640 --> 44:48.940]  Yeah.
[44:50.600 --> 44:51.260]  No response?
[44:52.320 --> 44:53.540]  I don't even know where to begin with.
[44:53.540 --> 44:59.820]  Well, I mean, you know, my immediate response is that, you know, downloading music and listening to a song is not the same thing as stealing a computer.
[45:00.060 --> 45:01.380]  I mean, it's just, you know, you have to...
[45:01.880 --> 45:07.880]  If one is seen as exactly the same as the other, then I think it sort of minimizes what real theft is.
[45:08.240 --> 45:16.300]  And if you listen to a song without paying money to listen to the song, you know, I think the debate is still out as to whether or not that's even a crime.
[45:17.280 --> 45:18.740]  Intellectual property is not property.
[45:19.380 --> 45:20.120]  Who said that?
[45:20.260 --> 45:20.520]  Me.
[45:20.720 --> 45:20.900]  Okay.
[45:20.900 --> 45:23.200]  I mean, other people also, but I just said it.
[45:23.340 --> 45:23.500]  Uh-huh.
[45:24.340 --> 45:26.240]  Well, you know, I think that's what the fight is all about.
[45:27.640 --> 45:29.380]  And there are a lot of people who hold that opinion.
[45:29.560 --> 45:31.300]  And, you know, it's something that we still have to debate.
[45:31.500 --> 45:34.060]  But I just don't think you can equate the two.
[45:34.340 --> 45:43.300]  You know, I think you have to look at one as somebody with a different set of values that may or may not be quite in line with, you know, with what we stand for.
[45:43.560 --> 45:45.040]  And the other is definitely a crime.
[45:45.040 --> 45:53.980]  So if you say everybody who commits the slightest infraction is the same as someone who commits the biggest infractions, I think you just make everybody into a criminal that way.
[45:54.000 --> 45:58.040]  Well, let me point out that we're talking about one of the few special cases.
[45:58.240 --> 46:03.000]  The military academies are the original zero-tolerance places.
[46:03.180 --> 46:03.400]  Mm-hmm.
[46:03.400 --> 46:03.760]  Okay.
[46:05.080 --> 46:09.320]  So in that case, I have to agree with the letter writer, Larry, whoever he is.
[46:09.520 --> 46:14.040]  Yeah, but do you really think that there's zero tolerance to every kind of, you know...
[46:14.040 --> 46:14.740]  Sexual assault.
[46:14.960 --> 46:17.680]  Any kind of offense inside the military.
[46:17.940 --> 46:19.880]  What happens and what is tolerated are not the same thing, okay?
[46:20.500 --> 46:21.780]  Sexual assault happened.
[46:22.080 --> 46:23.160]  It's not tolerated when it's discovered.
[46:23.160 --> 46:23.640]  Yes, it is.
[46:23.840 --> 46:25.640]  But this is way off topic.
[46:25.900 --> 46:27.540]  Yeah, it's really veering off topic here.
[46:27.660 --> 46:32.900]  But I think the point is people are kind of hypocritical when they take this whole year-than-thou attitude about that.
[46:33.100 --> 46:33.500]  If this was...
[46:33.500 --> 46:34.600]  Because I bet I could find...
[46:34.600 --> 46:39.980]  You know, I'm not challenging Larry here, but I bet I could find something on Larry where he, you know, he crossed the line somewhere.
[46:40.600 --> 46:41.920]  And, you know, I wouldn't go and call him...
[46:41.920 --> 46:43.880]  Larry is not necessarily a military officer, so I don't really care.
[46:43.880 --> 46:45.140]  No, I'm not saying Larry is a military officer.
[46:45.240 --> 46:47.660]  I'm saying Larry has a whole year-than-thou attitude saying that...
[46:47.660 --> 46:48.060]  No, he doesn't.
[46:48.320 --> 46:52.280]  This person committed an infraction, therefore they deserve to have their military career destroyed.
[46:52.560 --> 46:52.880]  Right.
[46:52.880 --> 46:56.200]  He's holding them to the standard that the academy holds them to.
[46:56.600 --> 46:58.380]  He's just backing up the academy.
[46:58.580 --> 47:00.180]  He's not being hypocritical.
[47:00.180 --> 47:10.820]  If he's talking that way about City College of Columbia or Dartmouth or University of Alabama, okay, yeah, he doesn't have a leg to stand on, or much less of one, at least.
[47:11.220 --> 47:11.940]  But he's not.
[47:12.060 --> 47:17.180]  He's talking about the original zero-tolerance incubators, and in that case, I think he's right.
[47:17.480 --> 47:27.900]  I just don't think if, you know, if every infraction is treated the same way, jaywalking or something like that, you know, is he going to say that anybody who did something really ridiculous like that should be kicked out of the military, zero-tolerance,
[47:28.000 --> 47:28.180]  you know?
[47:28.180 --> 47:30.480]  I mean, there are all kinds of infractions going on every day.
[47:30.720 --> 47:33.220]  Well, even at the academy, they're not treated the same, okay?
[47:33.280 --> 47:39.340]  There are things like punishment tours where you march up and down, doing nothing for six hours, all right?
[47:40.460 --> 47:42.400]  And you can work it off that way.
[47:42.460 --> 47:45.300]  And there are some things that are more serious and you're kicked out.
[47:45.840 --> 47:50.160]  But we're not saying that, oh, we just let boys be boys, girls be girls, whatever.
[47:51.060 --> 47:51.260]  All right.
[47:51.420 --> 47:52.100]  Enough about this.
[47:52.240 --> 47:54.280]  212-209-2900 is our phone number.
[47:54.320 --> 47:54.860]  What do you think?
[47:56.020 --> 47:57.060]  Let's take this phone call here.
[47:57.160 --> 47:57.400]  Good evening.
[47:57.460 --> 47:57.900]  You're on the air.
[47:59.000 --> 47:59.660]  Speak up, please.
[47:59.740 --> 47:59.980]  Go ahead.
[48:01.580 --> 48:02.860]  Okay, people, you have to be fast.
[48:02.980 --> 48:03.840]  Don't fall asleep on the phone.
[48:04.520 --> 48:05.060]  Good evening.
[48:05.200 --> 48:05.800]  You're on the air.
[48:06.220 --> 48:06.420]  Yes.
[48:06.760 --> 48:07.300]  Good evening.
[48:07.560 --> 48:07.940]  How are you doing?
[48:15.300 --> 48:19.420]  You're getting near CD quality when you're buying from that Apple site.
[48:19.760 --> 48:23.060]  But are you getting real CD quality for your money?
[48:23.220 --> 48:23.820]  That's a good question.
[48:24.160 --> 48:24.880]  Do you guys know?
[48:25.960 --> 48:27.060]  You think guys are saying?
[48:27.100 --> 48:29.340]  I read that it was a lower sampling rate.
[48:29.760 --> 48:30.020]  Right.
[48:30.180 --> 48:37.520]  So you're not even getting all the music that you would get, the information, all the information you'd get on a CD.
[48:37.820 --> 48:39.900]  Well, it's better quality than an MP3.
[48:40.280 --> 48:43.320]  Well, yeah, but it's still not CD quality.
[48:43.320 --> 48:50.760]  And I know people who are audiophiles, and they would not really put up with that lower rate, bit rate on their music.
[48:51.040 --> 48:53.660]  Yeah, unless it was something like five cents a song or something like that.
[48:53.740 --> 48:56.920]  But yeah, for 99 cents, it's a pretty hefty rate to pay for a song.
[48:57.020 --> 49:00.420]  And then you're not getting, like you said, you're not getting the album art, you're not getting the lyrics.
[49:00.500 --> 49:01.340]  With all these restrictions.
[49:01.740 --> 49:01.860]  Right.
[49:02.020 --> 49:02.140]  Right.
[49:02.260 --> 49:04.440]  And also, I was wondering about this.
[49:04.540 --> 49:29.380]  Has anybody ever considered why these companies don't include, if they want to promote the sale of a CD, include some sort of individual password, say, inside the CD, where only the person who bought that CD could access online, say, extra tracks or live songs or something that would give them a little extra bonus for buying the actual CD.
[49:30.680 --> 49:31.380]  Just an idea.
[49:31.560 --> 49:33.340]  I don't know if that's ever been considered.
[49:33.340 --> 49:39.640]  There are CDs now that are packaged with some software that, I mean, it's just really hitting a website, but often you can't see what it is.
[49:39.740 --> 49:43.860]  And so you sort of have to buy the disc to get access to the additional online content.
[49:44.100 --> 49:48.940]  But I think if they did that, gave you an incentive, lowered the price a little, you know, people would buy more CDs.
[49:49.260 --> 49:50.460]  Well, I mean, definitely lower the price.
[49:50.640 --> 49:53.200]  I mean, I almost bought a CD the other day that cost $18.99.
[49:53.460 --> 49:54.460]  I mean, that's just insane.
[49:54.980 --> 49:57.000]  You know, CDs should not cost that kind of money.
[49:57.140 --> 49:59.260]  And I even think $10 is a bit too much.
[49:59.380 --> 50:03.900]  And I think if CDs cost like $5 each, which they could do, it's not that difficult.
[50:03.940 --> 50:06.380]  They'd sell a lot more of them and there'd be a lot less people downloading.
[50:06.520 --> 50:08.620]  Because downloading music takes a long time.
[50:08.860 --> 50:08.980]  Right.
[50:09.160 --> 50:15.060]  And, you know, from what I've heard from people that get these tracks, sometimes they don't get the right tracks, sometimes they get bad information with it.
[50:15.400 --> 50:19.060]  Sometimes they have to wait a very long time because a lot of people are congesting the network.
[50:19.240 --> 50:27.700]  And if things were affordable, you'd see a lot more people in the record stores buying music and, yes, sharing music too, teaching others about, you know, their favorite bands.
[50:27.700 --> 50:30.280]  And, you know, that's how you learn about music.
[50:30.680 --> 50:35.880]  The caller makes a really good point about the data on the CD when you buy it.
[50:36.140 --> 50:47.240]  You know, by his argument, and I think it's a good argument, the online music from iTunes, Apple's iTunes, is actually several times more expensive than if you went out and bought the CD, if you work it out per byte.
[50:47.820 --> 50:54.220]  An album, CD album, might be, what, 500 or 600 megabytes of data on that disc.
[50:54.480 --> 51:00.280]  But if you bought that album online, it's probably a small fraction of that number of bytes.
[51:00.280 --> 51:03.280]  So, you're paying much more per byte online.
[51:04.440 --> 51:04.820]  All right.
[51:04.880 --> 51:05.360]  Thank you.
[51:05.580 --> 51:06.460]  Thanks for that call.
[51:07.120 --> 51:08.640]  And let's go on to another phone call.
[51:08.640 --> 51:09.900]  Call 212-209-2900.
[51:09.900 --> 51:10.300]  Good evening.
[51:10.440 --> 51:10.780]  You're on the air.
[51:12.380 --> 51:12.980]  Speak up, please.
[51:13.040 --> 51:13.280]  Go ahead.
[51:13.640 --> 51:13.880]  Okay.
[51:15.020 --> 51:15.820]  I am...
[51:17.160 --> 51:21.240]  I shop at Food Emporium, which is part of the A&P network with Well Bounce.
[51:21.460 --> 51:21.740]  Uh-huh.
[51:21.740 --> 51:25.620]  And they switched their type of card they used.
[51:26.560 --> 51:29.720]  Before, people could get them to swipe cards for them.
[51:29.860 --> 51:35.720]  Now, they have a different card altogether where you collect points for buying things.
[51:35.800 --> 51:38.420]  And certain things get you more points.
[51:38.600 --> 51:40.640]  The more you buy, the more points you get.
[51:40.800 --> 51:45.840]  There are some discounts where you just swipe a card and they give you a discount.
[51:46.200 --> 51:49.700]  Other discounts, you have to spend points that you earn.
[51:49.700 --> 51:53.700]  They're trying to make you always use your card, no matter what.
[51:53.840 --> 51:59.860]  Yeah, it sounds like you're being tied into, like, a real habit here of having to use your card to get points, to use the points to buy things.
[52:00.100 --> 52:04.000]  Yeah, this is Green Points, the follower to the old green stamps.
[52:04.260 --> 52:06.220]  Well, Green Points is at Food Town.
[52:06.500 --> 52:08.980]  At Food Emporium, they have gold points.
[52:09.480 --> 52:09.880]  Uh-huh.
[52:10.580 --> 52:16.140]  And Food Emporium is part of the A&P stores, so probably it's at A&P and Well Bounce, too.
[52:16.360 --> 52:18.120]  Well, we need to look into this more.
[52:18.120 --> 52:21.780]  We need to experiment with these little systems here, because they do seem to be fascinating.
[52:21.920 --> 52:23.600]  I really like the idea, though, of tattooing it on your arm.
[52:23.660 --> 52:24.580]  I think that's really pretty cool.
[52:24.760 --> 52:26.000]  Thanks for that call.
[52:26.100 --> 52:27.540]  Let's go over here now.
[52:27.680 --> 52:28.000]  Good evening.
[52:28.180 --> 52:29.060]  You're on the air.
[52:29.600 --> 52:30.080]  Oh, yeah.
[52:30.100 --> 52:48.060]  What you were talking about with the military, with the zero tolerance, is that something that is happening in our culture is that, okay, what you were addressing was a person as what could be called an independent moral agent, meaning I decide what's right and wrong.
[52:48.280 --> 53:03.700]  But what the present cultural situation is trying to brainwash us into is that legal-illegal is the deciding factor about what's right or wrong, whether or not something really is right or wrong.
[53:03.700 --> 53:22.120]  So it's a huge cultural shift that's trying to be pushed on all of us, because you were really arguing from the perspective, I mean, that I would argue from, that it's a decision about whether it really is right or wrong, not whether it's just legal or illegal.
[53:23.400 --> 53:37.540]  So, but that in itself is a major issue, that people are just brainlessly and robotically saying, well, if the government says this, or if some law says this, then that automatically makes it wrong.
[53:37.860 --> 53:38.520]  Right, exactly.
[53:38.520 --> 53:41.640]  Not looking at the law itself and saying, is this a just law?
[53:41.840 --> 53:43.060]  What does this accomplish?
[53:43.400 --> 53:43.960]  Exactly.
[53:43.960 --> 53:51.720]  And if you can confront people with it in a situation, they make this blank face like, I am not programmed to deal with this.
[53:52.100 --> 53:53.180]  I've seen it happen.
[53:53.420 --> 53:53.580]  Yeah.
[53:54.000 --> 53:59.160]  And, you know, this is the same kind of thing, the same kind of response we got from a lot of people with the Kevin Mitnick story.
[53:59.360 --> 54:00.500]  You know, people say, well, he's a criminal.
[54:00.500 --> 54:03.140]  He belongs in prison because he broke the law.
[54:03.540 --> 54:05.180]  And, you know, they didn't look at the law.
[54:05.280 --> 54:07.600]  They didn't analyze what it was that he was accused of doing.
[54:07.760 --> 54:12.580]  They didn't say, well, maybe, you know, five years in jail, you know, is a bit harsh for what he's accused of.
[54:13.000 --> 54:15.560]  No, it just mattered that he broke the law and he was a criminal.
[54:15.560 --> 54:16.820]  And they could have shot him.
[54:16.820 --> 54:20.060]  And, you know, that would be fine because criminals deserve whatever they get.
[54:20.160 --> 54:26.220]  And an analysis of it doesn't even enter into their mind, which is really scary.
[54:26.540 --> 54:29.480]  Well, you know, as Americans, we're encouraged not to analyze, just to accept.
[54:29.620 --> 54:30.700]  It's getting worse, though.
[54:30.940 --> 54:31.140]  Yeah.
[54:31.340 --> 54:33.840]  Well, keep awake and maybe we'll get better.
[54:33.940 --> 54:35.000]  Thanks for that call.
[54:35.800 --> 54:36.200]  Let's...
[54:36.200 --> 54:37.020]  Where should we go?
[54:37.200 --> 54:38.300]  Let's go over here.
[54:38.720 --> 54:39.260]  Good evening.
[54:39.400 --> 54:39.880]  You're on the air.
[54:41.360 --> 54:41.940]  Go ahead.
[54:42.340 --> 54:42.740]  Hi.
[54:42.840 --> 54:44.860]  I have a question about the MetroCard, actually.
[54:44.860 --> 55:01.820]  I know that I haven't been on the MetroCard since the fare has gone up, but I know that before, if you bend the MetroCard on the back side, where in a certain way you can flash it through and you can... it will say you have a credit and you're able to go through without,
[55:01.820 --> 55:06.000]  like, paying any money or if it's an old or dead MetroCard, you're able to do that.
[55:06.120 --> 55:08.720]  Do you know if you're still able to do that or did you even know about that?
[55:08.780 --> 55:10.660]  Jim, I'm going to give you 30 seconds to explain the technique.
[55:11.440 --> 55:16.400]  If you fold it, it assumes that because it can't read the card that there's still a fare left.
[55:16.640 --> 55:21.740]  There's no theoretical reason why that shouldn't still work, and now I'll probably get arrested again.
[55:21.940 --> 55:23.480]  Just for telling people how things work.
[55:23.620 --> 55:24.960]  You know, that's our lot in life.
[55:25.080 --> 55:26.420]  But there's your answer there.
[55:27.180 --> 55:29.620]  Thanks for your interest, and let's take a call over here.
[55:29.740 --> 55:30.020]  Good evening.
[55:30.100 --> 55:30.520]  You're on the air.
[55:31.120 --> 55:31.520]  Hello.
[55:31.800 --> 55:32.000]  Hi.
[55:32.420 --> 55:32.820]  Hi.
[55:34.100 --> 55:35.600]  I would like to know if...
[55:35.600 --> 55:36.640]  Well, there's a couple of things.
[55:36.780 --> 55:44.540]  I think the whole thing of the control, you know, the supermarket thing is all about control and all that.
[55:44.740 --> 55:47.140]  But I'd also like to know if I could ask you about viruses.
[55:47.480 --> 55:47.760]  Okay.
[55:48.060 --> 55:48.460]  Okay.
[55:48.480 --> 55:51.300]  I just got attacked by all these Trojan viruses.
[55:51.620 --> 55:51.920]  Oh, dear.
[55:52.300 --> 55:52.580]  Yeah.
[55:52.760 --> 55:56.700]  And I wanted to know how that happens.
[55:56.700 --> 55:59.540]  I have Norton, but I didn't find it.
[55:59.960 --> 56:05.320]  It has a backdoor flood and a hack tool and all these things.
[56:05.440 --> 56:09.080]  And it has things that are still on my computer, and I have to figure out how to get them off.
[56:09.080 --> 56:10.820]  How do you know, first of all, that you have this?
[56:10.980 --> 56:12.020]  What kinds of things are happening?
[56:12.380 --> 56:20.000]  Well, my son put the computer in safe mode, and then we scanned it, and they came up that I had all these viruses.
[56:20.600 --> 56:25.880]  The backdoor IRC, the IRC Trojan, hack tool, bat Trojan.
[56:25.880 --> 56:26.580]  Uh-huh.
[56:27.340 --> 56:27.800]  Et cetera.
[56:28.020 --> 56:30.960]  Well, you guys, you know an effective way to deal with this?
[56:31.000 --> 56:32.840]  Well, I mean, it sounds like you use IRC.
[56:32.980 --> 56:34.020]  Is that what's going on here?
[56:34.340 --> 56:34.680]  No.
[56:34.840 --> 56:38.240]  That's one of the things that are...
[56:38.660 --> 56:43.000]  It was called IRC Trojan, was one of the viruses that were found by Norton.
[56:43.160 --> 56:44.600]  But, I mean, are you an IRC user?
[56:44.720 --> 56:46.000]  Do you do a lot of internet chat?
[56:47.260 --> 56:47.620]  No.
[56:48.020 --> 56:48.380]  Well...
[56:48.380 --> 56:49.880]  Well, is that anyone in your household?
[56:50.140 --> 56:50.700]  My son, probably.
[56:50.700 --> 56:51.380]  Okay, your son.
[56:51.680 --> 56:53.240]  So what could be happening here?
[56:55.920 --> 57:00.760]  Is that somebody on IRC convinces you to download something and open it.
[57:01.400 --> 57:01.480]  Uh-huh.
[57:01.480 --> 57:06.820]  And usually, if you don't do that sort of thing, you're safe being on IRC because you're just talking to people.
[57:07.180 --> 57:07.460]  Uh-huh.
[57:08.040 --> 57:11.920]  Yeah, I mean, I think the secret is don't open things that you don't know what they are.
[57:12.020 --> 57:12.960]  Reading text is fine.
[57:12.960 --> 57:19.080]  You can read text all you want, but if you double-click on something and a program runs, you know, anything could happen.
[57:19.100 --> 57:22.540]  And you need to know what it is you're getting before you do something like that.
[57:22.540 --> 57:26.900]  But if you went just to visit certain websites, is it possible it could come through that?
[57:27.820 --> 57:32.320]  Well, if you download something on the website and, you know, it automatically executes, yeah, that's possible.
[57:32.800 --> 57:33.640]  You just have to...
[57:33.640 --> 57:35.220]  You have to always be aware.
[57:35.420 --> 57:40.860]  There are sufficient warnings on your system to tell you when something is about to happen like that.
[57:40.960 --> 57:43.640]  And you just have to know when to accept it and when not to accept it.
[57:44.040 --> 57:48.800]  Except, of course, for the new IE bug where you can crash IE with plain old HTML.
[57:49.060 --> 57:50.080]  But that's just crashing IE, right?
[57:50.100 --> 57:51.120]  That's just crashing IE.
[57:51.120 --> 57:53.180]  Which is many people would consider a service.
[57:53.880 --> 57:56.560]  Another thing is called EXPL 32.
[57:56.700 --> 57:57.660]  Does that ring any bells?
[57:58.860 --> 58:00.400]  Well, they're ringing any bells.
[58:00.400 --> 58:01.780]  There are so many of them, it's mind-boggling.
[58:02.040 --> 58:04.660]  Our bells are about over, though, so we can't ring any more of them.
[58:04.760 --> 58:06.380]  So thanks for calling.
[58:06.680 --> 58:11.460]  This programming note, next week at this time, we will have a Free Speech Radio News special.
[58:11.460 --> 58:12.960]  So we won't be on next week.
[58:13.420 --> 58:17.980]  However, the week after that, we'll have a special two-hour episode of Off the Hook.
[58:17.980 --> 58:23.860]  And that will be a fundraising episode, so please show your support then.
[58:23.860 --> 58:26.440]  We'll see you in two weeks from 7 to 9 o'clock.
[58:26.740 --> 58:30.820]  Stay tuned for the Personal Computer Show here on WBAI New York.
[58:30.920 --> 58:31.480]  It's Manuel Goldstein.
[58:31.680 --> 58:32.420]  Have yourself a good night.
[01:00:34.990 --> 01:00:36.890]  We'll see you in two weeks from 7 to 9 o'clock.
[01:01:09.930 --> 01:01:15.430]  We'll see you in two weeks from 8 o'clock.
[01:01:57.140 --> 01:02:00.120]  Ah, yes.
[01:02:01.140 --> 01:02:07.800]  You're listening to WBAI New York 99.5.
[01:02:07.800 --> 01:02:11.220]  And it is now 8 p.m.
[01:02:11.360 --> 01:02:14.520]  exactly on May 7th, 2003.
[01:02:15.450 --> 01:02:20.960]  Stay tuned for the award-winning Personal Computer Show.