[00:02.270 --> 00:11.670]  And as we go out, we salute and thank you, our listeners, for supporting Free Speech Radio News through our two years of daily newscasts.
[00:11.670 --> 00:13.870]  Our second anniversary is today.
[00:14.650 --> 00:16.130]  I'm Deepa Fernandes.
[00:20.610 --> 00:23.790]  And you're listening to radio station WBAI New York.
[00:24.130 --> 00:30.850]  It's 30 seconds to 7 o'clock, and we're right on the crest of a three-hour edition of Off the Hook.
[00:30.850 --> 00:35.730]  So we figured we'd take another 30 seconds to let you know that, and even start a little early.
[02:41.320 --> 02:48.680]  The prophet reclined on the golden heights, said,
[02:57.330 --> 03:00.510]  this land is my land to the Shiites.
[03:10.770 --> 03:14.730]  And Jehovah looked up from the Sea of Galilee with you.
[03:15.910 --> 03:21.010]  He said, I see you, you thief.
[03:22.950 --> 03:25.330]  And this land is my
[03:30.530 --> 03:33.730]  land, and this land is my land.
[03:34.010 --> 03:48.190]  All of the lonely boys, looking at the shore, checking out every boat, in the pond, when the gates are closed.
[03:53.920 --> 04:04.740]  And the Pope rolled up in his armored van, fell on his knees and kissed the land.
[04:08.480 --> 04:12.080]  He said something that I did not understand.
[04:12.920 --> 04:17.500]  I was in Polish, and upstepped in the 80s.
[04:17.500 --> 04:18.940]  He said, I won't translate.
[04:20.840 --> 04:23.300]  And here's what he told me, he said.
[04:24.620 --> 04:31.470]  I am the chief, chief, chief, chief, chief, man.
[05:05.050 --> 05:11.330]  And in New York City, the businessman in his mohair suit.
[05:11.330 --> 05:15.830]  And the world trades and puffs on his shoes.
[05:18.640 --> 05:24.900]  And he said, well, I don't care who owns the desert sands.
[05:25.620 --> 05:33.880]  My own brief is with the hydrocarbons underneath.
[05:35.700 --> 05:39.840]  And the sea of battle rages round the ancient tombs.
[05:40.020 --> 05:42.260]  And Mother Nature licks her wounds.
[05:42.260 --> 05:46.260]  And the lonely boy is locked in their towers of faith.
[05:46.560 --> 05:49.700]  Or nervous in the park, when the gates are closed.
[05:50.420 --> 05:50.640]  And
[06:37.940 --> 08:04.630]  a very good evening to everybody.
[08:04.750 --> 08:06.970]  The program is off the hook, expanded edition.
[08:07.130 --> 08:10.910]  Therefore, we have expanded music coming into the program tonight.
[08:10.910 --> 08:14.430]  And that, incidentally, for those people who will be clamoring later to ask who it was.
[08:14.490 --> 08:19.610]  That was Roger Waters from a rather rare piece that I had to fight to get.
[08:19.710 --> 08:20.990]  I really did have to fight to get this.
[08:21.750 --> 08:25.730]  It's a soundtrack to a film called When the Wind Blows.
[08:26.050 --> 08:27.210]  Jeff, you've never seen that, have you?
[08:27.510 --> 08:28.130]  Yes, I have.
[08:28.150 --> 08:28.830]  It's animated, actually.
[08:28.830 --> 08:29.130]  Wait a minute.
[08:29.350 --> 08:29.950]  I have it.
[08:29.990 --> 08:33.050]  You completely blew everything I was going to say to hell.
[08:33.230 --> 08:34.050]  You have this?
[08:34.190 --> 08:35.850]  I thought it was so rare that nobody had it.
[08:35.910 --> 08:38.430]  And I just went through a bidding war to get it.
[08:38.430 --> 08:39.430]  Now, you have it already.
[08:39.570 --> 08:40.730]  You forget who you're talking for.
[08:40.730 --> 08:42.570]  I have to talk to you before the show sometimes.
[08:42.770 --> 08:42.970]  Wow.
[08:43.270 --> 08:44.710]  So, yeah, it's an animated film.
[08:45.470 --> 08:51.870]  You'd think by the lyrics, all about the Shiites and the World Trade Center and the Desert Sand and all that, that its current song came out in 1986.
[08:52.230 --> 08:53.330]  And I only just found it now.
[08:53.590 --> 08:54.650]  Have you seen the film?
[08:54.710 --> 08:55.510]  No, I want to get...
[08:55.510 --> 08:56.590]  I just bought the film.
[08:56.750 --> 08:57.410]  I just bought it online.
[08:57.610 --> 08:58.850]  And it's on its way to me right now.
[08:59.610 --> 09:02.890]  Animated film about nuclear war and the horrors.
[09:02.890 --> 09:06.970]  Basically, it's told from the perspective of an elderly couple in England.
[09:07.490 --> 09:09.510]  I haven't seen the film, but I feel like I have.
[09:09.950 --> 09:15.890]  This elderly couple that kind of reminisces about World War II and how, you know, those were the days.
[09:16.110 --> 09:20.870]  Churchill on the radio and people in the bomb shelters and sending the kids out to the country, that kind of thing.
[09:20.970 --> 09:27.450]  Not realizing that a nuclear war is not going to be anything like that and that they have a slow and painful death to look forward to.
[09:27.790 --> 09:29.610]  Did I pretty much get the gist of it?
[09:29.630 --> 09:29.950]  Yeah, pretty much, yeah.
[09:30.690 --> 09:32.410]  It's got me all choked up without even seeing it.
[09:32.450 --> 09:33.250]  And you already have it, huh?
[09:33.630 --> 09:33.910]  Yeah.
[09:34.050 --> 09:34.610]  How did you get it?
[09:35.010 --> 09:35.990]  How did you even know about it?
[09:36.470 --> 09:37.750]  I'm real good at garage selling.
[09:37.910 --> 09:38.930]  What did you pay for yours?
[09:39.170 --> 09:40.190]  I don't want to say.
[09:40.390 --> 09:40.570]  Okay.
[09:40.570 --> 09:41.090]  It's too embarrassing.
[09:41.270 --> 09:43.670]  Then I'm not going to tell you how much I got mine for it.
[09:43.670 --> 09:45.070]  What, did you get one cent or something?
[09:45.290 --> 09:45.790]  You'll hate me.
[09:46.490 --> 09:46.870]  All right.
[09:46.930 --> 09:47.850]  Well, I'm going to have it.
[09:47.870 --> 09:48.870]  I'll probably have a better copy.
[09:49.010 --> 09:50.130]  I have missing scenes in mine.
[09:50.330 --> 09:50.450]  There.
[09:51.450 --> 09:52.150]  I don't have to look.
[09:52.150 --> 09:54.570]  If I convince myself I have missing scenes, I have missing scenes.
[09:54.650 --> 09:55.950]  That's all that matters.
[09:55.950 --> 09:57.630]  So maybe we'll hear a piece from that later on.
[09:57.730 --> 10:08.030]  Other people on that record also are David Bowie, who does the title track, When the Wind Blows, Hugh Cornwell, Genesis, Squeeze, Paul Hardcastle, as well as Roger Waters, and the Bleeding Heart Band.
[10:08.870 --> 10:10.090]  So there you go there.
[10:10.270 --> 10:12.470]  A little bit of trivia here on Off the Hook.
[10:12.790 --> 10:15.070]  And we're here for a three-hour fundraiser.
[10:15.110 --> 10:16.570]  I don't know where everybody else is, though.
[10:16.930 --> 10:19.410]  Mike and Jim and everyone else.
[10:19.510 --> 10:21.090]  Maybe they're stuck in the subway or something.
[10:21.250 --> 10:23.510]  Or maybe they forgot that this was the week we're on.
[10:24.270 --> 10:25.030]  Well, we're here.
[10:25.030 --> 10:25.530]  Bernie S.
[10:25.670 --> 10:26.810]  is here with us on the phone.
[10:27.330 --> 10:28.910]  Yes, I'm here in Philadelphia now.
[10:28.910 --> 10:32.930]  And you guys just came back from the Dayton Ham Fest, which I wasn't able to go to.
[10:33.670 --> 10:34.770]  What an odyssey.
[10:35.110 --> 10:35.330]  Yeah.
[10:35.550 --> 10:36.290]  It always is.
[10:37.030 --> 10:38.150]  Well, what happened this...
[10:38.150 --> 10:40.150]  I heard it rained an awful lot over there this time.
[10:40.430 --> 10:41.770]  Not as bad as last year.
[10:41.930 --> 10:43.870]  But again, it's the tens of...
[10:43.870 --> 10:47.830]  It's probably the world's largest gathering of geeks.
[10:48.290 --> 10:48.830]  Uh-huh.
[10:49.170 --> 10:50.590]  People interested in technology.
[10:50.970 --> 10:51.930]  Yeah, these are the real geeks.
[10:52.050 --> 10:52.830]  These are, you know...
[10:52.830 --> 10:57.150]  They span all kinds of AIDS groups and social groups and everything else.
[10:57.550 --> 11:01.110]  And this is one of the rare places you get to actually see geek drag.
[11:01.570 --> 11:02.510]  Geek drag, eh?
[11:02.510 --> 11:02.790]  Yes.
[11:02.910 --> 11:03.150]  Wow.
[11:03.530 --> 11:04.670]  That's an emerging culture.
[11:04.850 --> 11:05.830]  I've got photos.
[11:06.010 --> 11:06.590]  Photos, okay.
[11:06.710 --> 11:08.050]  Well, we'll show them on the air a little later on.
[11:08.050 --> 11:19.610]  Actually, we could segue right into a piece because Bernie S and I actually saw a piece of equipment that will allow us, through radio, to share with listeners images.
[11:19.910 --> 11:20.670]  Now, that's cool.
[11:20.810 --> 11:21.670]  That's really cool.
[11:21.810 --> 11:23.570]  We can actually share our pictures over the air.
[11:23.690 --> 11:28.170]  So, I have no idea how you're going to do that, but I like the idea that we can actually show pictures over the radio.
[11:28.470 --> 11:30.650]  Of course, it makes it sort of not radio then, doesn't it?
[11:31.890 --> 11:32.950]  It's radio waves.
[11:33.450 --> 11:34.830]  Well, yeah, but so is TV.
[11:34.970 --> 11:36.710]  Yeah, that's radio waves, you know.
[11:37.190 --> 11:37.910]  Speaking in radio waves.
[11:37.910 --> 11:40.050]  And we can limit it to just specific listeners.
[11:40.230 --> 11:40.850]  We can encrypt it.
[11:40.990 --> 11:42.290]  Hey, look, we raised $50 already.
[11:42.370 --> 11:42.990]  How did we do that?
[11:43.030 --> 11:43.550]  That's amazing.
[11:43.790 --> 11:44.670]  That's really good.
[11:45.030 --> 11:45.870]  Are those our $50?
[11:46.350 --> 11:47.130]  I hope so.
[11:47.250 --> 11:48.470]  Look, we have a new calculator, too.
[11:48.750 --> 12:12.450]  For those who have listened to BAI over the years, since the beginning of time, the way we've transmitted the information from the tally room to the on-air room is we have a video camera, closed-circuit video camera, that basically focuses on a calculator where somebody's job is to type in all the numbers and add it all up so you know how much has been raised throughout the show and throughout the
[12:12.450 --> 12:14.190]  entire fundraiser.
[12:15.190 --> 12:16.550]  And we have a new...
[12:16.550 --> 12:18.090]  I guess the old calculator finally broke.
[12:18.190 --> 12:19.850]  It must have been about 30 years old.
[12:19.850 --> 12:25.770]  But now we have a new LCD screen one, which is supposed to be LED screen one we had last time.
[12:26.010 --> 12:27.310]  And we have $50 on there.
[12:27.350 --> 12:27.790]  So that's great.
[12:28.150 --> 12:31.210]  We haven't even given out the information yet as to what we're offering.
[12:31.390 --> 12:41.050]  But if you want to get the jump on that, if you want to actually pledge now before we actually start offering things, then feel free to do that.
[12:41.930 --> 12:44.430]  212-209-2950 is our phone number.
[12:45.150 --> 12:51.410]  And we do have a lot of things we're going to be offering tonight, including a couple of things that we're wearing right now.
[12:51.510 --> 12:52.950]  But we'll get into that in just a little bit.
[12:54.470 --> 12:58.710]  So now, you guys, any particular adventures you want to share from Dayton?
[12:59.070 --> 12:59.910]  We have lots.
[13:00.250 --> 13:00.470]  Uh-huh.
[13:00.690 --> 13:03.330]  Well, let's maybe give one adventure an hour.
[13:03.330 --> 13:04.850]  That way we don't overwhelm the people.
[13:05.350 --> 13:07.170]  That would mean, I mean, one each?
[13:07.390 --> 13:08.850]  Or, I mean, we have many, many adventures.
[13:08.850 --> 13:10.230]  Well, you know, the most entertaining ones.
[13:10.270 --> 13:10.990]  The cleanest ones.
[13:11.770 --> 13:12.190]  All right.
[13:12.290 --> 13:13.050]  Well, you know...
[13:13.050 --> 13:13.950]  That's going to take some searching.
[13:14.230 --> 13:14.410]  Mm-hmm.
[13:16.750 --> 13:17.610]  Bernie, you want to start?
[13:18.390 --> 13:19.770]  Oh, there's just so much there.
[13:19.890 --> 13:22.470]  I mean, there were the usual suspects there.
[13:23.110 --> 13:27.450]  Dan Morgan from the former Satellite Watch News.
[13:27.650 --> 13:29.350]  Or the Satellite Watch Digest, what was it?
[13:30.410 --> 13:34.110]  Satellite Watch News was the newsletter that got shut down by the satellite industry, yes.
[13:34.410 --> 13:34.950]  That's right.
[13:35.010 --> 13:36.190]  And we've had him on a couple of times.
[13:36.270 --> 13:37.810]  In fact, he'll be joining us later on tonight.
[13:38.230 --> 13:38.690]  Oh, good.
[13:38.770 --> 13:40.810]  As kind of a special surprise guest.
[13:40.890 --> 13:45.750]  Well, it's not much of a surprise now, but he will be joining us talking about what's going on with him.
[13:46.730 --> 13:54.150]  And yeah, so I was dismayed that I wasn't able to make it this year and hang out with you guys at the old rib joint like we always do.
[13:54.390 --> 13:59.390]  And the other fun thing, Bernie actually used his ticket.
[13:59.390 --> 14:01.750]  Remember last year we went opening night and we saw...
[14:01.750 --> 14:03.150]  Oh boy, what a disaster that was.
[14:03.270 --> 14:03.390]  Yeah.
[14:03.730 --> 14:09.830]  We saw Attack of the Clones and they gave us free passes because the film broke at the end.
[14:10.030 --> 14:11.330]  No, the film didn't break at the end.
[14:11.370 --> 14:12.550]  The film was broken the whole way through.
[14:12.690 --> 14:13.510]  Did we talk about this?
[14:13.910 --> 14:27.170]  Basically, when you go to see a film in Ohio, don't go to see a Hollywood premiere in Dayton, Ohio, because they don't pay the same attention to certain details like leaving the lights on for the entire film, you know, and then turning all the lights on,
[14:27.250 --> 14:28.790]  you know, when the credits come on.
[14:28.790 --> 14:37.110]  And apparently the computer was off by a cycle so that you got the end credit lights during the film and you got the everything is over lights during the end credits.
[14:38.070 --> 14:45.270]  So, basically, I bitched and moaned about that and got us all little tickets that enabled us to go into the theater again.
[14:45.390 --> 14:47.270]  Fat lot of good that's going to do us living here in New York.
[14:47.410 --> 14:51.450]  But you guys actually saved the tickets and went back to Ohio and used them.
[14:51.570 --> 14:53.030]  And we saw the Matrix.
[14:54.890 --> 14:59.130]  We upgraded or downgraded as it might have been to the Matrix Reloaded.
[14:59.630 --> 15:01.590]  Frankly, I was very disappointed with that film.
[15:01.830 --> 15:04.570]  It was like a big TV show, but I'm not going to get into that.
[15:05.290 --> 15:08.050]  This isn't a movie show, but yeah, it's...
[15:08.050 --> 15:10.050]  I'm glad you were able to make use of the tickets in any event.
[15:10.170 --> 15:10.830]  I still have mine.
[15:11.010 --> 15:11.950]  Maybe I'll use it next year.
[15:12.730 --> 15:13.370]  They'll honor it.
[15:13.470 --> 15:14.230]  They're very good like that.
[15:14.310 --> 15:15.930]  There was no questions, no problems.
[15:16.490 --> 15:17.530]  No expiration date.
[15:18.110 --> 15:18.950]  Yeah, that's true.
[15:19.030 --> 15:21.090]  We even wondered if it was for real.
[15:22.030 --> 15:28.930]  But I guess this goes to show buyer beware and always look out for your rights and demand satisfaction when you don't get it.
[15:29.850 --> 15:30.210]  Yeah.
[15:30.430 --> 15:33.850]  You guys are just going to walk out of the theater and just say, oh, well, what are you going to do?
[15:33.990 --> 15:34.270]  You know?
[15:34.490 --> 15:35.490]  We were glad you were there.
[15:35.650 --> 15:35.810]  Yeah.
[15:36.810 --> 15:45.170]  Aside from the hundreds of interesting people we spoke with, or thousands probably, I'm still horrid from talking to everyone there for three days.
[15:46.030 --> 15:51.650]  But I ran into a lot of interesting people, a lot of 2,600 readers and off-the-hook listeners.
[15:52.490 --> 15:53.370]  People recognized me.
[15:53.450 --> 15:55.810]  People recognized me just from the sound of my voice.
[15:56.330 --> 16:01.570]  It would be like talking to Jeff on the phone, trying to say, hey, go over to this area here and check this out.
[16:01.650 --> 16:02.930]  And then somebody would say, are you burning?
[16:03.090 --> 16:03.830]  And they just hear my voice.
[16:03.890 --> 16:04.510]  It's bizarre.
[16:04.610 --> 16:05.250]  It freaks me out.
[16:06.070 --> 16:08.550]  But I was surprised the number of off-the-hook listeners that were there.
[16:08.650 --> 16:15.390]  And I think Lynn Holcomb from Atlanta Freenet, he recognized us.
[16:15.850 --> 16:17.430]  In fact, he might have stopped out of the studio.
[16:17.550 --> 16:17.890]  Is he there tonight?
[16:18.050 --> 16:23.870]  You know, it's funny that you must have eyes in your phone or something, because he happens to be here right now sitting in front of a microphone.
[16:24.110 --> 16:26.490]  And Lynn, why don't you say hi to the folks over the world?
[16:26.490 --> 16:26.710]  Hi.
[16:26.810 --> 16:27.370]  Hi, Bernie.
[16:27.590 --> 16:28.190]  Good to hear you on.
[16:28.830 --> 16:29.150]  Yeah.
[16:29.910 --> 16:31.150]  Yes, Lynn is here.
[16:31.150 --> 16:34.730]  I guess kind of an expert on wireless networks.
[16:34.930 --> 16:36.630]  What projects are you involved in, Lynn?
[16:37.450 --> 16:52.150]  In Atlanta, we've been working for a little while on a Freenet type of setup, so that people can access the internet and other wireless-type content for free.
[16:52.850 --> 16:56.530]  The idea is not to replace your cable modem or your DSL.
[16:56.530 --> 17:01.590]  It's to give you access when you're at some random place in the Atlanta area.
[17:01.910 --> 17:06.810]  And pretty much we've been working on the backbone part of the system lately.
[17:07.310 --> 17:07.690]  Uh-huh.
[17:09.190 --> 17:13.430]  There's hot spots up, but the main part that I've been working on is the backbone part.
[17:13.610 --> 17:18.270]  Now, how do those hot spots work as far as for people that want to use wireless in Atlanta?
[17:18.290 --> 17:21.650]  Do you have to sign up for a certain company, or is it open to anybody?
[17:22.290 --> 17:25.210]  Anybody who's within range can sign up, create an account.
[17:25.430 --> 17:34.530]  We do have a login, an account name, and password, but there's no real information collected or sold or anything like that.
[17:34.530 --> 17:37.070]  It's just to control access a little bit.
[17:37.070 --> 17:47.970]  Now, about a week ago, Verizon unveiled a big Wi-Fi type of deal that if you walk by certain payphones in the city, it'll say, this payphone is hot or something like that.
[17:48.390 --> 17:52.330]  You can use your wireless, you know, device here.
[17:53.250 --> 18:00.710]  And if you go to their website, which I believe is verizon.net slash WIFI, you'll see just what that entails.
[18:00.870 --> 18:03.570]  You have to be a customer of theirs, though, in order to be able to use that.
[18:04.530 --> 18:10.110]  Do you think this is like a revolutionary type of a thing, or just another company trying to cash in on a phase?
[18:10.730 --> 18:20.010]  Well, you know, the thing is that you're still having to pay for something to get it, and that's definitely a model that's going to be out there.
[18:21.070 --> 18:24.230]  T-Mobile has had their hotspots all over the place.
[18:24.230 --> 18:26.050]  I see them in airports all over the country.
[18:26.410 --> 18:27.530]  But it's so expensive.
[18:28.550 --> 18:43.550]  If they're not charging anything extra, and you already have your cable motor or DSL through Verizon, I guess you don't do cable through Verizon, but if you had your DSL through Verizon, and it was already free, and it's just an added benefit like dial-up when you're away from home,
[18:43.630 --> 18:44.430]  that would be pretty cool.
[18:44.630 --> 18:44.910]  Right.
[18:45.430 --> 18:51.790]  But if they're going to charge $30 for a limited amount of use like T-Mobile, then it's pretty worthless to most people.
[18:52.230 --> 19:00.410]  Well, my impression was that if you were a customer of Verizon, DSL, whatever, that you could just go to one of these hotspots and use it.
[19:00.650 --> 19:04.670]  And I'm not quite sure how they do the authentication, but it should be interesting to play around with.
[19:04.890 --> 19:11.590]  Now, but this is above and beyond what's going on in the streets of New York where people are setting up all kinds of free relay points.
[19:11.750 --> 19:13.530]  Do you know much about that particular aspect of it?
[19:13.530 --> 19:18.230]  Yeah, I've heard about some stuff with New York City Wireless.
[19:18.230 --> 19:18.770]  Yeah.
[19:18.790 --> 19:20.050]  It's one group that's doing some stuff.
[19:20.210 --> 19:24.450]  But then also just random people are setting up, you know, an open access point.
[19:24.950 --> 19:32.850]  We're doing a little bit more to secure that in Atlanta with some Linux-based, you know, software systems.
[19:33.010 --> 19:37.430]  Basically, you go through, you type in any address, and you get to the splash screen.
[19:38.730 --> 19:43.110]  And there's stuff to limit your network from being attacked by bad people.
[19:43.110 --> 19:47.950]  I don't know if those people in New York are actually doing it intentionally.
[19:48.510 --> 19:49.050]  And I think...
[19:49.050 --> 19:54.790]  Yeah, I think there's a lot of people who are, as I like to say, donating internet access to the masses.
[19:55.710 --> 19:55.950]  Mm-hmm.
[19:56.050 --> 19:56.290]  Yeah.
[19:56.530 --> 19:59.750]  And New York City Wireless are some of those people.
[20:00.210 --> 20:04.490]  You can check them out, www.nycwireless.net.
[20:05.190 --> 20:08.050]  And they talk about their projects there.
[20:08.050 --> 20:12.970]  They're, you know, putting up all kinds of hot points throughout the city.
[20:13.830 --> 20:19.130]  Much to the chagrin of the broadband providers, such as Time Warner and others.
[20:19.890 --> 20:25.330]  But I think you're seeing, you know, a movement here where people, you know, want this kind of access.
[20:25.610 --> 20:31.930]  They don't want to have to, you know, pay huge amounts or pay anything for it, because the bandwidth is there.
[20:31.930 --> 20:33.210]  It's sitting there not being used.
[20:34.070 --> 20:43.270]  And I think that's, you know, it's a good sign when people are willing to put in the work and do that kind of thing, actually go around the city and kind of wire it up on their own.
[20:45.050 --> 20:47.330]  How many people are involved in your project?
[20:47.610 --> 20:51.430]  I'd say that there's somewhere between 20 and 30 people are showing up to meetings.
[20:51.430 --> 20:55.290]  I actually had to move out of the Atlanta area to take the job.
[20:56.290 --> 21:00.450]  So I've been coming in, you know, on the weekends and doing some stuff when I'm in town.
[21:02.010 --> 21:14.670]  Primarily what I've done is a lot of the tower work, because we're actually on commercial sites, up, you know, 1,100 feet above sea level, 300 foot towers and stuff like that.
[21:14.670 --> 21:14.930]  Yeah.
[21:15.430 --> 21:24.130]  So that, and that's for the backbone, so that people who have a house or a business that are in line of sight can then connect in to the network.
[21:24.830 --> 21:25.030]  Mm-hmm.
[21:25.470 --> 21:27.810]  Jeff, you have some late-breaking development there?
[21:28.030 --> 21:32.870]  Yeah, we've got our first card here, our first thank you that we can read on the air.
[21:32.970 --> 21:33.170]  Okay.
[21:34.630 --> 21:36.950]  Mark Benton from Bloomfield, Indiana.
[21:37.070 --> 21:39.370]  Well, now we don't want to give out the full information, Jeff.
[21:39.630 --> 21:39.990]  I'm sorry.
[21:40.250 --> 21:43.090]  Because, you know, you don't give out the last name, just the first name.
[21:43.270 --> 21:43.570]  Sorry.
[21:45.230 --> 21:47.510]  So we want to thank him for his generous pledge.
[21:48.370 --> 21:50.410]  And is that the only one we have so far?
[21:50.530 --> 21:51.130]  So far, yeah.
[21:51.310 --> 21:51.510]  Okay.
[21:51.770 --> 22:00.290]  And our phone number, 212-209-2950 for people who want to pledge to the radio station.
[22:00.290 --> 22:08.290]  Now, we have an excerpt right here from the H2K2 conference, which I hope will work, because we're not quite sure.
[22:08.370 --> 22:09.190]  We've never done this before.
[22:09.810 --> 22:13.410]  But this is something that we're offering as a premium.
[22:14.390 --> 22:16.910]  We have VCDs.
[22:17.030 --> 22:18.050]  Do you know what a VCD is?
[22:18.210 --> 22:18.650]  Yes, we do.
[22:18.750 --> 22:18.910]  Okay.
[22:18.950 --> 22:19.590]  What is a VCD?
[22:20.070 --> 22:21.510]  It's video on a CD.
[22:21.650 --> 22:22.130]  That's right.
[22:22.230 --> 22:22.590]  That's right.
[22:22.670 --> 22:24.570]  Now, how does that differ from a DVD, you may ask?
[22:25.350 --> 22:26.690]  Not the same amount of stuff.
[22:26.870 --> 22:27.730]  Not the same amount of stuff.
[22:27.730 --> 22:30.370]  You don't have all the extra scenery and that kind of thing.
[22:30.370 --> 22:34.270]  And, you know, the quality is not, I guess, motion picture quality.
[22:34.490 --> 22:37.050]  But it's certainly good enough.
[22:37.230 --> 22:39.570]  It's as good as a videotape.
[22:39.930 --> 22:41.470]  And it works in...
[22:41.470 --> 22:43.070]  Does it work in all DVD players?
[22:44.370 --> 22:45.230]  I believe so.
[22:45.310 --> 22:46.430]  I believe it works in most of them, anyway.
[22:46.550 --> 22:47.370]  I know it works in mine.
[22:47.370 --> 22:47.690]  Okay.
[22:48.210 --> 22:53.930]  So, basically, what we're offering are DVDs, not DVDs, VCDs of the conference.
[22:54.070 --> 23:01.890]  Now, we have all kinds of panels that anybody who was at the conference would know that we had a million panels.
[23:01.890 --> 23:03.330]  There's no way everybody could have seen all of them.
[23:03.430 --> 23:04.870]  So, there's definitely something that you missed.
[23:05.450 --> 23:11.690]  And what we're offering tonight for a pledge of $75, right?
[23:11.850 --> 23:22.290]  Yes, $75, 212-209-2950, is any three of the hours that we videotaped at the conference.
[23:22.790 --> 23:33.530]  If you go to www.h2k2.net slash panels.html, you'll see all the different panels that we have, including the excerpt that we're about to play now.
[23:35.070 --> 23:42.890]  And basically, we're in the process of converting all that over to VCD, and it will be offered in that way.
[23:44.310 --> 23:50.750]  Basically, what you want to do is give us a call and make sure you give the phone number, your phone number, to the person answering.
[23:50.750 --> 23:56.090]  That way, we can contact you at a later date and find out which specific ones you want.
[23:56.270 --> 23:59.530]  So, don't bother the person that you're calling in with those details.
[23:59.530 --> 24:03.390]  We're going to bother you with those details later on when we call you back.
[24:03.950 --> 24:10.330]  Right now, let's play a brief excerpt from the Fun with 802.11b panel.
[24:10.730 --> 24:12.350]  Anyone here see that panel?
[24:12.930 --> 24:13.450]  No?
[24:13.630 --> 24:13.870]  Okay.
[24:13.990 --> 24:15.370]  Well, a lot of people were at that panel.
[24:15.370 --> 24:22.030]  It was pretty crowded, and we had all kinds of good feedback for that.
[24:22.550 --> 24:32.290]  Let me give you the basic synopsis that we have for that panel, which was hosted by Dragorn Porkchop and Static Fusion.
[24:32.290 --> 24:38.610]  Would you be surprised if you could turn on your laptop anywhere in the city and find yourself on someone else's network?
[24:38.890 --> 24:43.670]  How about if you were able to connect to the internet or see someone's private data go flying by?
[24:43.890 --> 24:47.650]  It's all possible, and it happens all the time, all over the country.
[24:47.650 --> 24:55.990]  This panel covers 802.11b wireless ethernet networking basics, as well as detecting and monitoring wireless networks with active and passive methods.
[24:56.190 --> 25:01.970]  Community-free networks, custom antennas, and methods of securing wireless networks are also covered.
[25:02.210 --> 25:03.130]  Let's take a listen.
[25:04.050 --> 25:14.810]  We have GPS units, and connecting the GPS unit to either Kismet, or I guess this one does it too, you can find the location of a network and later map them.
[25:15.730 --> 25:25.810]  Actually, if you picked up the latest issue of 2600, the front cover is the Hotel Pennsylvania, that's the Hotel Pennsylvania, the three things in the center, and the area surrounding it.
[25:27.590 --> 25:30.950]  There are, I think it was 450 networks...
[25:30.950 --> 25:34.990]  Over 450 networks within about a three block radius of this place.
[25:35.310 --> 25:42.710]  Of them, about 28% were factory default, which means somebody took it, pulled it out of the box, and plugged it into their network.
[25:42.710 --> 25:45.910]  It's got the factory passwords or no passwords.
[25:48.530 --> 25:53.010]  Roitable community strings, go in, reconfigure their network for them.
[25:53.410 --> 25:57.350]  Not that I recommend doing that, but people leave themselves that exposed.
[25:57.530 --> 26:02.370]  Speaking of which, for most of this hotel, there's an access point called default that's available, it's a D-Link.
[26:03.030 --> 26:09.370]  You might have seen it around, if you've been playing around, which was factory default.
[26:09.690 --> 26:13.350]  And I think somebody was playing with it earlier, so it no longer is factory default.
[26:15.810 --> 26:24.430]  But the password was admin, which is the default password for all D-Link, or not all, but most D-Link equipment.
[26:28.280 --> 26:30.140]  Do you have anything more to show there, or shall we?
[26:31.820 --> 26:33.960]  We're going to jump back over to Kismet for a minute.
[26:35.000 --> 26:43.400]  Since we have the creator of Kismet here, we figured we'd spend a little bit more time on Kismet, and then we're going to talk to you about the actual equipment we have here, some eye candy.
[26:45.920 --> 26:48.400]  Of course, eye candy for nerds is equipment.
[26:51.640 --> 27:04.100]  It's amazing, considering how much press, and how much negative press, wireless networking has been getting lately, with Best Buy running unencrypted credit cards over their wireless network.
[27:06.500 --> 27:09.580]  A number of other companies have gotten caught doing similar things.
[27:09.580 --> 27:20.000]  And just a number of articles that have been out there about the weaknesses of WEP and the weaknesses of wireless networks, it's phenomenal how many networks there still are that are completely unprotected.
[27:20.520 --> 27:33.760]  And how many people, and I'm sure some of them are network administrators, still have no clue that just because it's a standard piece of equipment doesn't mean it's not going to suddenly make your network vulnerable to a whole new crowd of people.
[27:35.880 --> 27:38.580]  A lot of people rely on physical security of their networks.
[27:38.980 --> 27:43.000]  If you can't get into their building, you can't plug in, so you can't get at their unpatched servers.
[27:43.960 --> 27:49.000]  With wireless, you can pick things up four and a half, five miles away, sometimes, literally.
[27:49.360 --> 27:55.420]  I believe it was Office Depot that was running a demo of a wireless unit on their network.
[27:55.420 --> 28:00.760]  The thing about doing that is that it was on their physical network and it was a wireless access point.
[28:00.840 --> 28:11.420]  So you could be sitting out there after hours, linking to that access point, and start browsing their corporate network from inside, from behind the firewalls.
[28:12.600 --> 28:17.420]  Obviously, it's a little bit of a security hole for that most people probably didn't think of.
[28:17.420 --> 28:21.260]  And it was probably just some clerk that plugged it in, not really thinking too hard.
[28:21.460 --> 28:31.300]  But if you ever wanted to explore Office Depot's internal network or any other group that sells wireless equipment, you might want to try just sitting outside their store.
[28:34.440 --> 28:43.340]  I've actually run into other situations like that, where you'll connect to a store that's running a wireless network, and it's all their corporate stuff, not, you know, for customers.
[28:43.340 --> 28:50.480]  And I've had instances where I find mug shots of people who've been banned from the store, located on desktops on their wireless networks.
[28:50.840 --> 28:57.080]  So a lot of people out there are running these completely unsecure networks, and they're not really doing anything about it.
[28:58.100 --> 29:03.440]  The other very frightening place that often runs completely insecure networks are hospitals.
[29:04.640 --> 29:09.040]  These people are handling your medical data, and they're broadcasting it miles without encryption.
[29:10.740 --> 29:23.480]  Often what they're doing is, in one case near where we live, there is a wireless, there's a hospital that uses a wireless network to communicate between it and another hospital, another local area hospital.
[29:24.400 --> 29:27.080]  And that connection is not encrypted whatsoever.
[29:27.960 --> 29:34.000]  We haven't actually, or I haven't anyway, I don't think you have either, actually looked at the data going through there.
[29:34.000 --> 29:35.800]  We just noticed that it was there.
[29:36.900 --> 29:41.300]  But I do not, I wouldn't put money on that being encrypted at all.
[29:41.460 --> 29:43.880]  There's probably just free open data right there.
[29:46.960 --> 29:47.360]  Okay.
[29:47.360 --> 29:51.440]  Well, we'll show off a few of the features of Kismet, and then we'll talk about the hardware data.
[29:51.620 --> 29:56.500]  Okay, that doesn't translate very well over the radio, because you'll actually, you won't see what they're talking about.
[29:56.500 --> 30:04.740]  But that's just a little bit of one of the panels that we have here, that we're offering for a pledge of $75.
[30:05.080 --> 30:07.480]  You'll get three of those, three panels of your choice.
[30:07.700 --> 30:11.940]  You want to tell them how they can determine their choice, where they can go to get the listing?
[30:12.080 --> 30:12.360]  Yes.
[30:12.460 --> 30:26.060]  Well, if you go to www.h2k2.net, that's the conference website from last summer's conference here in New York City, where we had basically three days worth of two tracks of just constant information of various sorts.
[30:28.240 --> 30:31.720]  And you're going to have a tough time thinking of only three that you want.
[30:31.860 --> 30:35.000]  So you don't have to decide right now.
[30:35.160 --> 30:39.100]  Just give us your information, and we'll contact you.
[30:39.260 --> 30:44.080]  And by that time, hopefully you will have been able to make the painful choice as to which panels you want.
[30:45.260 --> 30:51.880]  And they will be in VCD format, which if you have a DVD player or a computer, I should point out, a computer will certainly be able to play those.
[30:52.640 --> 30:56.380]  That's for a pledge of $75, 212-209-2950.
[30:56.520 --> 30:56.820]  Look at that.
[30:56.900 --> 30:57.920]  No calls on the line.
[30:58.040 --> 30:59.000]  What do you make of that, Jeff?
[30:59.220 --> 30:59.500]  I don't know.
[30:59.540 --> 31:01.060]  Maybe we should tell them about the other premium as well.
[31:01.120 --> 31:02.180]  Well, I guess we could do that.
[31:02.300 --> 31:03.240]  Yeah, we could do that as well.
[31:03.480 --> 31:07.880]  For $125, that's $50 more.
[31:08.240 --> 31:11.800]  You'll get the brand new 2600 hooded sweatshirts, which are out.
[31:12.280 --> 31:16.280]  Actually, they're being delivered this week, but they're done from what I hear.
[31:16.500 --> 31:23.420]  I have not yet seen one, but you will get that for a pledge of $125 plus three VCDs of your choice.
[31:23.500 --> 31:24.360]  Yeah, you're not getting off so easily.
[31:24.480 --> 31:25.580]  You're getting the VCDs no matter what.
[31:26.280 --> 31:27.980]  And remember, you can always give these as gifts.
[31:28.180 --> 31:29.760]  You know, they're great.
[31:29.900 --> 31:31.500]  If you're yourself, two calls.
[31:31.500 --> 31:35.480]  Okay, it's something that you can always pass on to more people.
[31:35.640 --> 31:39.540]  But the most important reason, three calls, 212-209-2950.
[31:39.540 --> 31:47.220]  The most important reason for you to call right now is so that the radio station can continue doing what it does, mainly bringing you programs like Off the Hook.
[31:47.640 --> 31:48.320]  Go ahead.
[31:48.480 --> 31:49.060]  Tune around.
[31:49.200 --> 31:50.320]  Listen to other radio stations.
[31:50.480 --> 31:52.680]  See if you hear any place a program like this.
[31:52.860 --> 31:54.360]  I have a feeling you won't.
[31:54.560 --> 31:57.160]  Bernie, down there in Philadelphia, do you hear anything like this?
[31:58.440 --> 31:59.740]  There's nothing like this.
[31:59.860 --> 32:08.840]  I mean, there was a great private radio micro-broadcasting conference down here many years ago, but that's the closest thing we've ever had to this kind of conference.
[32:09.020 --> 32:09.700]  I might point out...
[32:09.700 --> 32:11.020]  I meant this kind of radio station.
[32:11.180 --> 32:11.980]  This kind of radio station?
[32:12.320 --> 32:22.540]  No, years ago, WXPN at the University of Pennsylvania had a superb station like this, but it's long since gone to other less desirable formats.
[32:23.040 --> 32:24.420]  It's amazing how that happens.
[32:25.500 --> 32:26.260]  It's terrible.
[32:26.260 --> 32:33.860]  The video on these VCDs, Emmanuel, is that the only way that people can see video from H2K to now?
[32:33.960 --> 32:35.040]  That is the only way.
[32:35.180 --> 32:41.120]  You will have no other opportunity to see video except through VCD, or unless somebody takes the VCD and puts it online.
[32:41.620 --> 32:43.980]  But I know we don't have the kind of bandwidth to support that.
[32:44.940 --> 32:48.760]  VCD is really the...
[32:49.500 --> 32:53.380]  Well, it's the method of choice for a lot of video distribution these days.
[32:53.380 --> 32:57.200]  I don't want to say, you know, in the pirate community, even though that happens to be true.
[32:57.260 --> 33:02.700]  If you want a movie that's just come out, oftentimes it will be made available on VCD.
[33:02.960 --> 33:04.240]  Well, you know, there's a reason for that.
[33:04.240 --> 33:11.440]  It's a simple format that is easily readable in many different mediums or players or what have you.
[33:12.020 --> 33:15.860]  And that's, you know, what we're offering here.
[33:15.960 --> 33:17.760]  It's the first time we've offered something in VCD format.
[33:18.280 --> 33:24.240]  I do know people have copied Freedom Downtime into VCD and distributed it that way, which is great.
[33:24.420 --> 33:26.520]  That's, you know, that's sort of what we made the film for.
[33:27.000 --> 33:29.620]  212-209-2950 is our phone number.
[33:29.760 --> 33:35.260]  Again, Pledge of $75 gets you three of the H2K2 VCDs.
[33:35.400 --> 33:36.680]  Wow, seven letters there.
[33:36.680 --> 33:46.980]  And for $125, you'll get the 2600, brand new 2600 sweatshirt that's guaranteed to raise your respect level in your respective neighborhood.
[33:47.720 --> 33:50.540]  And you'll also get three VCDs on top of that.
[33:50.660 --> 33:51.700]  You don't have to stop there, though.
[33:51.780 --> 33:56.860]  You can keep pledging amounts above and beyond that and get more, you know, multiple amounts of these things.
[33:57.240 --> 33:58.280]  It's all up to you.
[33:58.360 --> 34:00.120]  212-209-2950.
[34:00.660 --> 34:03.880]  And, of course, we accept pledges on any level as well.
[34:03.880 --> 34:06.800]  You know, whatever you can afford, it all matters.
[34:06.940 --> 34:07.500]  It all makes a difference.
[34:07.660 --> 34:11.040]  It'll all, you know, add into what it is that we're trying to get to tonight.
[34:11.040 --> 34:12.880]  We're at $150 right now.
[34:12.920 --> 34:18.540]  And we need to be in the several-thousand-dollar range by the end of this evening.
[34:18.540 --> 34:19.800]  And I know that we can do it.
[34:19.820 --> 34:20.560]  We've done it before.
[34:21.160 --> 34:26.300]  And it's essential that we accomplish these things because that's what keeps radio stations like WBA on the air.
[34:26.540 --> 34:30.640]  And as I was saying, you know, this kind of thing is not heard in very many other places.
[34:30.640 --> 34:34.680]  In fact, I'd be hard-pressed to find any place that has a program like Off The Hook.
[34:34.980 --> 34:36.240]  And there's a reason for that.
[34:36.360 --> 34:50.560]  You know, we tend to annoy a lot of companies, a lot of corporations, a lot of governments, a lot of people, in fact, with our outspokenness in the way that, you know, we kind of say what our opinion is without regard for what the commercial ramifications are.
[34:50.560 --> 34:55.020]  It's called, you know, our version of the truth, what it is that we believe is right.
[34:55.180 --> 34:58.120]  And we encourage our listeners to partake in that as well.
[34:58.720 --> 35:03.360]  You don't hear that in other places because that kind of thing hurts the bottom line.
[35:03.560 --> 35:05.120]  It hurts advertising dollars.
[35:05.500 --> 35:08.240]  But one thing we don't have here on this radio station is advertising.
[35:08.780 --> 35:09.880]  Yeah, the pitching may be annoying.
[35:10.020 --> 35:12.120]  It may be annoying to hear us occasionally begging for money.
[35:12.480 --> 35:16.880]  But think of all the other radio stations out there and think of how many times you hear commercials.
[35:16.880 --> 35:19.560]  And is that not really the same thing?
[35:19.820 --> 35:21.740]  Except you don't have a choice there.
[35:21.860 --> 35:22.840]  You have to pay for that.
[35:22.980 --> 35:25.880]  It's reflected in everything you buy, the cost of advertising.
[35:26.740 --> 35:34.180]  So this is something that we ask our listeners to become our sponsors and to help us out so that we can keep this going.
[35:34.360 --> 35:35.720]  We're not a pirate radio station.
[35:35.840 --> 35:41.900]  We're a 50,000-watt full-power FM station licensed in the middle of the FM dial in the middle of New York City.
[35:42.780 --> 35:45.780]  You know, that kind of thing doesn't come very easily.
[35:45.780 --> 35:51.120]  In fact, I don't think that's even something that would be a remote possibility today if we did not already have this place.
[35:51.260 --> 35:59.600]  There's no way we could afford, you know, if we put all of our money together, I don't think anybody could afford to buy a full-power FM radio station in the middle of the FM dial.
[35:59.700 --> 36:00.700]  But we already have one.
[36:00.820 --> 36:02.220]  We already have one right here.
[36:03.020 --> 36:04.700]  But we need to preserve it.
[36:04.740 --> 36:05.580]  We need to maintain it.
[36:05.620 --> 36:07.140]  And that kind of thing requires maintenance.
[36:07.340 --> 36:09.160]  212-209-2950.
[36:09.480 --> 36:10.480]  Become our sponsors.
[36:10.820 --> 36:14.880]  Help us out with whatever you can afford to donate.
[36:14.880 --> 36:21.060]  I will say this, and this is also independent of what the Tali people are doing right now.
[36:21.300 --> 36:29.700]  Anybody who pledges $25 or above will get a special off-the-hook t-shirt that we give to all our donating people.
[36:30.720 --> 36:32.740]  Yes, you're biting your nails, Jeff.
[36:32.840 --> 36:33.400]  No, I'm good.
[36:33.580 --> 36:33.760]  I'm good.
[36:33.800 --> 36:34.120]  You're okay?
[36:34.120 --> 36:34.400]  Yeah.
[36:34.620 --> 36:37.880]  That is kind of, you know, it's a risk for us to do this, I know.
[36:38.020 --> 36:39.480]  Because we're donating all this ourselves.
[36:39.600 --> 36:53.300]  2600 Magazine is, you know, making a donation to the radio station of the VCDs, the sweatshirts, and the T-shirts in the hopes that it will make those more reluctant people out there pick up the phone and make a phone call.
[36:53.760 --> 36:57.520]  Ideally, ideally, you know, we shouldn't really have to offer anything.
[36:57.740 --> 37:05.360]  It should just be understood that the radio station has to survive somehow, and the listeners are the people that listen to the radio station, obviously.
[37:05.360 --> 37:11.480]  And we hope that they would come through and keep the place going when we need that help.
[37:11.740 --> 37:13.120]  And it's amazing.
[37:13.280 --> 37:17.340]  That's been happening since 1960 was when this radio station first went on the air.
[37:18.380 --> 37:27.700]  It's kept us alive for that long, and that's why we continue to turn to our listeners because they've been very dependable to us in the past.
[37:27.880 --> 37:38.420]  What Off the Hook is unique at doing is bringing in unique listeners, you know, people that ordinarily would not hear this radio station, and maybe we'll stick around and listen to some of the other programming that we have here.
[37:38.600 --> 37:46.600]  A lot of good stuff, a lot of, you know, really controversial things that air on this radio station, some of which you won't be able to stand, some of which will make you run out of the room screaming.
[37:47.000 --> 37:49.340]  But I ask you, isn't that what radio is all about?
[37:49.340 --> 37:51.600]  The ability to make somebody run out of a room screaming.
[37:53.080 --> 37:54.600]  212-209-2950.
[37:54.600 --> 37:56.780]  Hopefully we haven't made too many people run out yet.
[37:57.860 --> 38:08.060]  We have all kinds of things that, you know, we have for the H2K2 conference that we're putting together, now, that we'd like to share with you.
[38:08.240 --> 38:12.560]  And this is one way we can say thank you for calling in and supporting us.
[38:12.620 --> 38:14.680]  We have one call left on the phone line.
[38:15.740 --> 38:17.320]  212-209-2950.
[38:17.580 --> 38:19.800]  I'd like to see this whole row of phones lit up.
[38:19.880 --> 38:20.680]  Do you think that's possible, Jeff?
[38:20.860 --> 38:21.180]  Absolutely.
[38:21.320 --> 38:22.400]  We did it last time.
[38:22.460 --> 38:22.980]  We can do it again.
[38:23.100 --> 38:25.960]  Yeah, we even went into the second bank of phones there.
[38:26.140 --> 38:27.940]  I've never seen the third bank, though.
[38:28.080 --> 38:28.920]  I don't think we've ever...
[38:28.920 --> 38:31.580]  I think we maxed it out last time because there's only a certain number.
[38:31.580 --> 38:39.600]  There's four banks in this particular little device here, which is called a Viking line status monitor, if we have us sitting here.
[38:40.080 --> 38:42.360]  That tells us how many lines are ringing in the other room.
[38:42.980 --> 38:45.360]  So it's always very exciting when all the lines light up.
[38:46.160 --> 38:47.640]  So that's what we want to see now.
[38:47.760 --> 38:49.560]  212-209-2950.
[38:49.760 --> 38:58.380]  We have a room full of volunteers that are waiting to take your phone call and help get us to the point that we need to get to.
[38:59.560 --> 39:03.720]  Again, I don't have to tell you what's happening to radio stations around the country.
[39:03.920 --> 39:05.320]  It's happening right here in New York.
[39:05.560 --> 39:18.780]  Non-commercial radio stations are being taken over left and right by all kinds of entities, including non-commercial or national public radio, which is non-commercial, but they kind of sound the same on all their stations.
[39:19.020 --> 39:21.420]  And that's a bit of a problem for local radio.
[39:21.420 --> 39:24.660]  Local radio is something that is really kind of dying.
[39:25.160 --> 39:29.140]  And we like to buck the trend here and keep it alive.
[39:29.580 --> 39:33.780]  And BAI listeners are like no other kind of listener that I think you'll find.
[39:33.920 --> 39:35.760]  They're very passionate about preserving these things.
[39:35.920 --> 39:37.740]  And our listeners are located all over the world.
[39:37.820 --> 39:40.480]  You don't have to be in the New York area to give us a call.
[39:40.600 --> 39:43.500]  You can call us from anywhere in the world if you're listening right now.
[39:44.120 --> 39:47.420]  And that's the important thing, because right now is the only time we're going to be doing this.
[39:47.420 --> 39:49.500]  We're not going to be on the air next week.
[39:50.360 --> 39:53.160]  And the fundraiser will be over in two weeks when we come back.
[39:53.360 --> 39:55.320]  So that's why it's vital to hear from you now.
[39:55.420 --> 39:57.280]  212-209-2950.
[39:58.880 --> 39:59.880]  We've got to get more calls.
[40:00.080 --> 40:01.060]  We simply have to.
[40:01.380 --> 40:07.580]  I mean, it might sound like, you know, we're getting a lot of calls here, but, you know, we have to really light up that switchboard.
[40:09.540 --> 40:10.120]  They're coming.
[40:10.240 --> 40:10.620]  They're steady.
[40:10.900 --> 40:12.480]  Well, there's one on there now.
[40:12.740 --> 40:13.040]  There's one.
[40:13.260 --> 40:15.980]  That just means because the other ones are going off, new ones are coming on.
[40:15.980 --> 40:16.640]  Well, okay.
[40:16.860 --> 40:19.800]  That's, you know, you have faith and that's important.
[40:20.580 --> 40:22.180]  212-209-2950.
[40:22.600 --> 40:23.980]  There are people out there hesitating.
[40:24.100 --> 40:25.180]  I know what it's like to hesitate.
[40:25.420 --> 40:28.560]  Maybe you're driving a car right now and you don't feel it's safe to pull over.
[40:28.680 --> 40:28.880]  Fine.
[40:28.880 --> 40:29.620]  We understand that.
[40:29.880 --> 40:31.640]  Pull over when it is safe and then make the call.
[40:32.280 --> 40:36.960]  If you're at home right now, you know, there's never been a better time.
[40:37.200 --> 40:39.000]  See, there's two calls.
[40:39.200 --> 40:39.680]  We've doubled that.
[40:39.940 --> 40:40.780]  And the money's gone up.
[40:40.920 --> 40:42.020]  The money has gone up.
[40:42.100 --> 40:44.820]  We're up to $275 right now.
[40:45.940 --> 40:46.300]  Okay.
[40:46.800 --> 40:48.820]  Actually, they're calculating it right now.
[40:48.940 --> 40:50.380]  It's fun watching them type in the numbers.
[40:50.500 --> 40:50.940]  We're up to $350.
[40:51.440 --> 40:51.800]  Okay.
[40:52.140 --> 40:55.680]  We need to bring that over $1,000, though, for this first part of the show.
[40:55.760 --> 40:56.920]  We're on for three hours tonight.
[40:57.140 --> 40:57.980]  We're on for three hours tonight.
[40:58.240 --> 40:58.440]  Okay.
[40:58.700 --> 40:58.900]  Yeah.
[40:59.200 --> 41:00.000]  It's grueling.
[41:00.000 --> 41:08.360]  You know, it's something that we have to put a lot of time and effort into, but it's essential to keep the place running, to keep the place going.
[41:09.320 --> 41:10.760]  212-209-2950.
[41:10.760 --> 41:19.520]  Let's get two more phone calls and then we can go back to our programming, our regular off-the-hook programming, which is expanded this evening.
[41:19.520 --> 41:28.260]  And it's expanded because the people here at this radio station believe that we can bring in a whole lot of support from those off-the-hook listeners.
[41:29.000 --> 41:30.000]  We have more people to thank?
[41:30.980 --> 41:31.720]  Yes, we do.
[41:31.840 --> 41:33.960]  I just need to check and see if we can...
[41:34.660 --> 41:36.100]  See, that one's not marked from here.
[41:36.160 --> 41:36.680]  Here we go.
[41:36.860 --> 41:37.080]  Okay.
[41:37.080 --> 41:37.140]  Okay.
[41:38.080 --> 41:41.180]  You can thank the city then if they don't want their name read.
[41:41.360 --> 41:42.140]  Sure, sure.
[41:42.360 --> 41:42.920]  The entire city.
[41:43.020 --> 41:43.740]  Three calls on the line.
[41:43.840 --> 41:45.140]  212-209-2950.
[41:45.780 --> 41:46.820]  Let's make that five calls.
[41:47.340 --> 41:49.480]  We've got a pledge here from Mario in New York.
[41:49.660 --> 41:50.780]  Mario, thank you very much.
[41:50.900 --> 41:51.320]  Yeah.
[41:51.640 --> 41:55.780]  And Richard right here in New York as well.
[41:56.000 --> 41:56.240]  Okay.
[41:59.040 --> 42:00.660]  Another one from Iowa.
[42:01.140 --> 42:01.420]  Iowa.
[42:01.520 --> 42:02.760]  Mark in Iowa.
[42:02.880 --> 42:04.020]  There are a lot of good people in Iowa.
[42:04.020 --> 42:08.020]  And this goes to show that our signal gets out everywhere one way or another.
[42:08.320 --> 42:10.740]  You know, we reach all over the world.
[42:11.040 --> 42:12.500]  We have a very long reach.
[42:13.120 --> 42:14.020]  Edward in Brooklyn.
[42:14.520 --> 42:15.280]  Edward, thank you.
[42:15.380 --> 42:17.300]  212-209-2950.
[42:17.600 --> 42:19.260]  We have four calls on the line.
[42:19.740 --> 42:23.100]  If we get another two, we jump over into that second bank.
[42:23.220 --> 42:24.220]  And that will really make us happy.
[42:24.300 --> 42:26.020]  And please don't make the phone ring just to make it ring.
[42:26.380 --> 42:28.600]  Make the phone ring because it represents a pledge.
[42:29.180 --> 42:31.060]  And you'll feel really good doing this.
[42:31.380 --> 42:33.220]  I've pledged to radio stations in the past.
[42:33.220 --> 42:35.000]  Of course, pledging to be AI is something special.
[42:36.060 --> 42:47.380]  And that's, you know, it's your vote for alternatives, for a different thought, for, you know, voting against the crap that's on the radio on other stations.
[42:47.380 --> 43:02.020]  I mean, you know, without getting too particular and specific, I mean, how can we live with ourselves knowing that this kind of thing goes on on the radio and we don't vote against it by pledging support for non-commercial radio?
[43:02.020 --> 43:10.580]  You know, just tune above 92, you know, and, you know, except for us, and maybe a couple of other exceptions, it's all the same garbage.
[43:10.840 --> 43:15.720]  The same garbage you'll hear everywhere, you know, and it's...
[43:17.920 --> 43:20.460]  Sorry, we just had a VIP walk in.
[43:21.020 --> 43:21.860]  Go take a seat there.
[43:21.960 --> 43:23.020]  We're going to get to you in a second.
[43:25.080 --> 43:28.040]  By just sitting back, okay, this is what a lot of people think.
[43:28.440 --> 43:31.160]  If they just sit back, everything's going to work itself out.
[43:31.720 --> 43:33.240]  And, you know, that's not going to happen.
[43:33.260 --> 43:36.280]  It's not going to work itself out if nobody does anything.
[43:36.420 --> 43:37.620]  Look at the state of the world.
[43:37.740 --> 43:42.200]  Look at the, you know, the state of just things in general.
[43:42.200 --> 43:49.080]  And you'll see that things fall apart if people don't maintain them, if they don't, you know, take an interest.
[43:50.080 --> 43:53.720]  You know, if you don't get involved, no one else is going to do it for you.
[43:53.940 --> 43:55.940]  That's how it works.
[43:56.060 --> 43:57.260]  That really is how it works.
[43:58.060 --> 43:59.880]  212-209-2950.
[44:00.200 --> 44:01.320]  Every pledge counts.
[44:01.460 --> 44:02.420]  Every person counts.
[44:02.680 --> 44:04.620]  And it makes a really big difference.
[44:05.100 --> 44:05.580]  Emmanuel?
[44:05.580 --> 44:05.660]  Emmanuel?
[44:05.800 --> 44:06.080]  Yes.
[44:06.600 --> 44:15.360]  I think this is a terrific way for callers to get over any orange alert anxiety they might be having.
[44:15.540 --> 44:16.180]  Oh, that's right.
[44:16.280 --> 44:16.780]  We're at orange.
[44:17.300 --> 44:18.780]  We're at orange alert now.
[44:19.080 --> 44:19.460]  Orange.
[44:20.580 --> 44:22.040]  Are you taking precautions, Bernie?
[44:22.720 --> 44:23.460]  I am.
[44:23.580 --> 44:32.300]  I'm on the air tonight with some wonderful people informing them about what's going on in the world and things about technology that would interest them.
[44:32.300 --> 44:43.080]  And, you know, frankly, as these alerts keep going up, I think the chances that people can have access to this type of information goes down.
[44:43.340 --> 44:54.280]  So, just right now, the FCC is considering lifting the restrictions on corporations owning, you know, all the radio stations across the country.
[44:54.280 --> 44:54.780]  Mm-hmm.
[44:54.880 --> 45:03.040]  And, you know, your options for getting free and open information like this are rapidly diminishing.
[45:03.480 --> 45:08.220]  The AI is like an oasis in a radio wasteland.
[45:08.420 --> 45:12.180]  So, I'm hoping to get some callers in to support this kind of radio.
[45:12.180 --> 45:12.220]  Yeah.
[45:13.320 --> 45:13.640]  Okay.
[45:13.840 --> 45:15.780]  Well, actually, you lost the last call we had.
[45:16.440 --> 45:18.960]  I mean, they just probably finished giving their pledge.
[45:19.060 --> 45:24.920]  But that means the phone lines are wide open, and we could really use your call at this time.
[45:26.080 --> 45:29.300]  212-209-2950 is our phone number.
[45:29.840 --> 45:32.000]  And we have in the studio with us now Juntz.
[45:32.240 --> 45:32.760]  How are you doing?
[45:32.980 --> 45:33.260]  Pretty good.
[45:33.780 --> 45:37.180]  You just managed to brave the weather to get in here?
[45:37.580 --> 45:37.700]  Yeah.
[45:38.040 --> 45:41.580]  And, wow, we have a lot of interesting things going on.
[45:41.680 --> 45:45.620]  Now, Juntz is a great example of how someone can get involved and really make a difference.
[45:45.620 --> 45:54.940]  Juntz is the one that keeps the off-the-hook stream going and also keeping the WBAI stream going.
[45:55.040 --> 45:56.240]  With a lot of help from other people.
[45:56.340 --> 45:58.880]  A lot of help from other people, but you're kind of the instigator.
[45:59.080 --> 46:02.840]  You're the guy that gets them all together and makes it somehow work.
[46:02.840 --> 46:03.880]  And I don't know how you do it.
[46:03.940 --> 46:04.400]  I really don't.
[46:04.580 --> 46:05.120]  I don't either.
[46:06.240 --> 46:07.980]  But it works great.
[46:08.100 --> 46:14.440]  It really, you know, it goes counter to the way you're supposed to do it, the commercial way where you spend all this money.
[46:14.760 --> 46:25.340]  And we've been, you know, as a donation of a lot of people, we've been able to keep this radio station on the net.
[46:26.260 --> 46:29.680]  And during off-the-hook, right now we have, what, servers all over the place?
[46:30.060 --> 46:35.160]  Yeah, we've got one overseas, two, well, three here in the United States.
[46:35.520 --> 46:37.160]  None of them are near New York.
[46:38.100 --> 46:40.900]  But your radio is the key to it all, right?
[46:40.900 --> 46:44.020]  You have a radio that's basically plugged into your computer.
[46:44.200 --> 46:44.540]  That's it.
[46:44.660 --> 46:46.200]  And it's listening to this radio station.
[46:46.380 --> 46:47.860]  That's the one weak point.
[46:48.260 --> 46:50.100]  When my power goes out, the stream goes down.
[46:50.220 --> 46:50.420]  Uh-huh.
[46:50.460 --> 46:51.400]  But it doesn't happen very often.
[46:51.480 --> 46:52.520]  The power doesn't go out very often.
[46:52.880 --> 46:53.320]  Fortunately now, yeah.
[46:53.400 --> 46:56.060]  And it's worked marvelously well for years.
[46:57.000 --> 46:59.060]  And that's how people pick up the stream.
[46:59.080 --> 47:06.020]  And what they do is, I guess, they sort of, they grab your signal, and then they're able to host however many people on top of that.
[47:06.020 --> 47:06.840]  Basically, yeah.
[47:06.940 --> 47:07.740]  It's like a piggyback.
[47:07.960 --> 47:13.900]  I stream out to one of our servers in Colorado, and everyone else that runs a server grabs the stream from there.
[47:14.160 --> 47:15.100]  So, I mean, you see the difference.
[47:15.280 --> 47:16.020]  One person can make.
[47:16.100 --> 47:17.440]  One person decides to do this.
[47:17.580 --> 47:20.180]  Someone else decides, okay, well, I'm going to help that person out.
[47:20.280 --> 47:26.060]  And before you know it, we have hundreds and hundreds of people who are able to listen to this radio station because of the efforts of a couple of people.
[47:26.700 --> 47:29.600]  That's why, you know, an individual does make a difference.
[47:29.600 --> 47:31.260]  And every pledge matters.
[47:31.400 --> 47:32.220]  Every person matters.
[47:32.460 --> 47:36.160]  And that's how we're able to get pledges tonight from Indiana and Iowa.
[47:36.420 --> 47:36.820]  That's right.
[47:37.040 --> 47:37.320]  That's right.
[47:37.400 --> 47:39.400]  212-209-2950.
[47:39.840 --> 47:43.200]  Our country code is 1 for those of you overseas who are listening, and we know you're there.
[47:43.340 --> 47:45.120]  We know there's overseas people listening right now.
[47:45.680 --> 47:49.220]  Now, Jones, we also have a situation with the radio station.
[47:50.360 --> 47:55.340]  In addition to Off the Hook, the radio station gets streamed in a somewhat different manner.
[47:55.900 --> 47:57.560]  You want to give us details about that?
[47:57.560 --> 48:05.480]  Yeah, well, we have more servers for just the Off the Hook stream than we do for the 24-hour WBAI stream.
[48:05.700 --> 48:12.620]  And it's basically just because it's a lot easier to run a server for an hour a week or two hours a week than it is to keep one up 24-7.
[48:13.640 --> 48:18.200]  So there's a lot more people who are able to donate bandwidth just for an hour or two a week.
[48:19.640 --> 48:29.680]  The problem that we're running into with the main BAI stream now is that it's become so popular that we're getting crushed under the loads, basically.
[48:30.520 --> 48:35.580]  We've always had Live 365 to fall back on when all the other servers fill up.
[48:35.640 --> 48:36.640]  What is Live 365?
[48:37.020 --> 48:39.320]  Live 365, they've been around for years.
[48:39.320 --> 48:40.820]  I don't know how many at this point.
[48:41.040 --> 48:45.780]  But they started out as a free streaming server host, basically.
[48:45.780 --> 48:48.340]  You could sign up for a free account, sort of like Hotmail.
[48:49.500 --> 48:54.220]  And they would give you up to 365 listener capacity on one of their servers.
[48:56.120 --> 49:07.300]  Over the years, it's evolved where they started charging, you know, professional rates and now they're going to start charging for everything and limiting the number of connections that you can use on their stream also.
[49:07.720 --> 49:15.240]  So it's really going to kill us as far as the overflow, because like I said, they've always taken over, you know, everything that the other servers can't handle.
[49:15.820 --> 49:17.380]  And we often reach that limit.
[49:17.600 --> 49:18.180]  Oh yeah, definitely.
[49:19.180 --> 49:28.840]  During the peak times, Democracy Now!, Gary Null in the morning, the show off the hook, we get anywhere from 400, 600, 800 connections at once.
[49:29.340 --> 49:30.140]  That's massive.
[49:30.300 --> 49:31.860]  That's a lot more than we can handle right now.
[49:32.160 --> 49:33.100]  Yeah, that is really massive.
[49:33.540 --> 49:40.380]  So right now we're trying to figure out a way we can keep that going, but if we're not able to do that, it's going to be harder starting next week.
[49:40.480 --> 49:43.900]  Oh yeah, people are going to start getting server full messages and not going to be able to get the stream.
[49:44.400 --> 49:50.440]  One of the options is for more people to step up and offer a server so we can keep it going, you know, on the cheap.
[49:51.080 --> 49:53.600]  What's involved with that if people are interested in helping out in that way?
[49:54.000 --> 50:09.360]  Basically, anyone that has access to, you know, a good internet connection, meaning like T1 speeds, T3 speeds, OC speeds, that kind of thing, a dial-up connection or cable modem or DSL really isn't going to do it, only because you can't host very many streams on that type of connection.
[50:09.860 --> 50:21.700]  But people with access to these bigger pipes and a server that they can donate for BAI's use, if you've got that equipment and you're willing to let us use it, that would be great.
[50:21.940 --> 50:24.400]  And the equipment stays with them.
[50:24.500 --> 50:25.080]  Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
[50:25.200 --> 50:29.000]  So all they have to do basically is tie into the signal and provide bandwidth.
[50:29.220 --> 50:29.280]  Right.
[50:29.280 --> 50:30.360]  Run some software and that's it.
[50:30.500 --> 50:30.720]  Okay.
[50:30.760 --> 50:33.720]  We already have people who are providing amazing amounts of bandwidth.
[50:33.960 --> 50:33.980]  Oh yeah.
[50:33.980 --> 50:34.000]  Yeah.
[50:34.420 --> 50:36.880]  A digital mercenary over there in Denver is...
[50:36.880 --> 50:45.860]  I mean, the name's really appropriate because what he's able to do is just unbelievable as far as the amount of people that are able to hear the radio station as a result...
[50:45.860 --> 50:46.140]  Right.
[50:46.280 --> 50:47.520]  ...of the donation of bandwidth there.
[50:47.840 --> 50:55.060]  And there are people like that around the world who are just very unselfish and willing to donate whatever it is that they have available.
[50:55.060 --> 50:56.980]  That's kind of the theme of WBAI.
[50:57.160 --> 51:01.480]  You know, people are donating left and right to keep the place going one way or another.
[51:01.700 --> 51:07.740]  And the internet is something fairly new as far as getting FM radio out there to other people.
[51:07.900 --> 51:13.020]  I think people in other cities, other countries are seeing for the first time what can be done with the radio station.
[51:13.220 --> 51:15.440]  All the different types of programming that we have.
[51:15.960 --> 51:19.340]  And when you leave the city, you don't have to, you know, leave WBAI behind.
[51:19.340 --> 51:23.200]  You can take it with you if you have internet connectivity wherever it is you're going.
[51:23.200 --> 51:23.600]  Right.
[51:23.780 --> 51:26.140]  So it's a great resource to have, it really is.
[51:26.320 --> 51:34.600]  And it's something that's made possible through people pretty much like you and me who just want to see the signal get out there.
[51:35.200 --> 51:35.440]  Emanuel?
[51:35.700 --> 51:36.240]  Yes, Bernie.
[51:36.700 --> 51:41.100]  It's probably worth mentioning too that a lot of people mirror the off-the-hook archives.
[51:41.300 --> 51:45.760]  There's so much material going back over the years that is really worth going back and listening to.
[51:45.940 --> 51:52.180]  In fact, I think Lynn, who's up there this evening from the Atlanta Freenet Project, he has a mirror site too, don't you, Lynn?
[51:52.180 --> 51:52.960]  Yeah.
[51:53.240 --> 52:00.020]  I have pretty much all of the episodes and I usually get them up within about 12 to 24 hours after the show's over.
[52:00.180 --> 52:08.920]  And you can find them at jawga.com slash O-T-H dot H-T-M.
[52:09.100 --> 52:12.100]  And that's something we encourage and it's a great resource to have.
[52:12.680 --> 52:20.180]  because, you know, when like a nuclear bomb or something goes off at our facility, then, you know, we have somewhere else we can go to get the shows.
[52:20.200 --> 52:21.180]  They won't be lost forever.
[52:21.400 --> 52:28.460]  So we encourage people to mirror, copy, do whatever it is that you have to do to make sure that, you know, the signal gets out there and the shows get saved someplace.
[52:30.440 --> 52:34.800]  And sometimes, you know, our connectivity goes down, so we need to, you know, have a backup of sorts.
[52:34.840 --> 52:36.540]  And that's what it's all about is backups.
[52:36.540 --> 52:38.740]  We're up to $800, which is great.
[52:39.040 --> 52:40.860]  A couple calls more will be over $1,000.
[52:41.300 --> 52:43.520]  Why don't you make your call be the one that makes a difference?
[52:43.640 --> 52:45.940]  212-209-2950.
[52:46.240 --> 52:53.750]  This is the only time we're going to be pitching here in this particular marathon, the spring 2003 marathon for WBAI.
[52:54.560 --> 53:01.860]  For a pledge of $75, you'll get three hours of H2K2 video in VCD format.
[53:02.440 --> 53:03.660]  Leave us your information.
[53:03.840 --> 53:06.720]  We will contact you as far as which specific three hours you want.
[53:07.160 --> 53:16.320]  For $125, you'll get all that plus a brand new 2600 hooded sweatshirt, which will make you the conversation piece of your community.
[53:17.060 --> 53:26.620]  And everybody pledging $25 or over will get a free limited edition off-the-hook t-shirt, which I'm currently wearing one right now.
[53:26.740 --> 53:28.920]  And that's the only place that you can get those t-shirts.
[53:28.920 --> 53:29.300]  That's right.
[53:29.420 --> 53:30.280]  They're not available anywhere else.
[53:30.280 --> 53:33.560]  They're not available anywhere else, only for the people who pledge to the radio station.
[53:33.840 --> 53:35.800]  212-209-2950.
[53:36.700 --> 53:44.760]  And you'll also get the WBAI folio mailed to you, which tells you what all the other programs are in this particular radio station.
[53:44.860 --> 53:51.880]  But most importantly, more importantly than anything that we're sending you, any of these little incentives, is the fact that you're keeping this radio station on the air.
[53:51.940 --> 53:54.520]  And if you're listening right now, then obviously that must mean something to you.
[53:54.740 --> 53:56.580]  212-209-2950.
[53:57.220 --> 53:58.260]  No calls on the line.
[53:58.260 --> 53:58.720]  Now, come on.
[53:58.800 --> 54:02.920]  I know there's people out there, and we can bring that up to a bunch.
[54:03.100 --> 54:05.420]  I'll bet we'll get some before I finish reading the thank yous.
[54:05.420 --> 54:07.280]  Okay, and get your name thanked on the air.
[54:08.200 --> 54:10.980]  We've got Robert from here in the Bronx.
[54:11.420 --> 54:12.100]  Oh, there's a call.
[54:12.240 --> 54:12.700]  Hey, you're right.
[54:12.820 --> 54:14.740]  Now, see if every name you read, we can get another call.
[54:15.020 --> 54:15.420]  All right, you ready?
[54:15.540 --> 54:15.780]  All right.
[54:15.840 --> 54:15.980]  Here we go.
[54:16.760 --> 54:18.240]  Frank, also here in New York.
[54:18.860 --> 54:19.380]  Not yet.
[54:19.520 --> 54:20.240]  No, we're still waiting.
[54:20.340 --> 54:21.880]  212-209-2950.
[54:22.340 --> 54:24.660]  This would be a good time to call, because you're not going to miss anything.
[54:24.660 --> 54:25.820]  We're just doing thank yous now.
[54:27.000 --> 54:28.100]  Joseph from New York.
[54:28.300 --> 54:29.080]  Actually, Farmingdale.
[54:30.620 --> 54:33.340]  We've got Thomas from New Jersey.
[54:33.740 --> 54:34.540]  Thank you, Thomas.
[54:34.760 --> 54:35.760]  No particular town in New Jersey?
[54:36.000 --> 54:37.000]  Yeah, Westfield, I'm sorry.
[54:37.000 --> 54:37.280]  Westfield, okay.
[54:37.280 --> 54:38.120]  Westfield, New Jersey.
[54:38.380 --> 54:39.620]  They have townships there.
[54:40.040 --> 54:41.380]  I'm not quite sure what that means.
[54:42.300 --> 54:43.660]  We don't have that here in New York.
[54:43.920 --> 54:44.520]  No, no.
[54:44.640 --> 54:47.880]  We have villages, towns, counties, that kind of thing.
[54:48.000 --> 54:48.180]  Burgs.
[54:48.180 --> 54:48.920]  Two calls on the line.
[54:49.020 --> 54:50.360]  212-209-2950.
[54:51.380 --> 54:55.320]  And another person from Anna from Flanders, New Jersey.
[54:55.500 --> 54:56.300]  Flanders, New Jersey.
[54:56.560 --> 54:58.120]  A lot of New Jersey callers tonight.
[54:58.360 --> 54:58.900]  So far.
[54:59.160 --> 55:02.500]  If your state is not represented, you owe it.
[55:03.580 --> 55:05.640]  The pride of your state is at stake here.
[55:05.720 --> 55:07.320]  212-209-2950.
[55:07.680 --> 55:08.920]  Have we gotten any calls from West Virginia?
[55:08.960 --> 55:09.560]  I don't think so.
[55:10.300 --> 55:11.040]  I don't think so.
[55:11.180 --> 55:13.580]  West Virginia has been surprisingly absent tonight.
[55:14.060 --> 55:16.280]  We passed through West Virginia just a few days ago.
[55:16.280 --> 55:16.760]  That's right.
[55:16.840 --> 55:20.060]  When you pass through West Virginia to get to Ohio, it's only for like a mile or so.
[55:20.380 --> 55:20.860]  You know?
[55:20.980 --> 55:22.280]  And then all of a sudden, you're in Ohio.
[55:22.440 --> 55:25.660]  There's a nice bridge and a good Mexican restaurant.
[55:25.780 --> 55:27.640]  We had dinner, actually, in...
[55:27.640 --> 55:29.600]  I usually stop at the subway over there.
[55:30.060 --> 55:30.360]  No, no.
[55:30.480 --> 55:31.620]  We sat down for...
[55:31.620 --> 55:32.440]  It's a good subway, too.
[55:33.080 --> 55:33.540]  I'm sorry.
[55:33.580 --> 55:34.320]  You have one more name there.
[55:34.540 --> 55:34.860]  Yes.
[55:34.900 --> 55:36.040]  This is from Georgia.
[55:37.900 --> 55:38.620]  Michael from...
[55:38.620 --> 55:39.280]  It looks like Kennesaw.
[55:40.320 --> 55:40.620]  Okay.
[55:40.620 --> 55:41.420]  I hope I'm getting that right.
[55:41.680 --> 55:41.840]  Yeah.
[55:41.920 --> 55:43.120]  It's just north of Atlanta.
[55:43.280 --> 55:43.880]  That's actually where...
[55:45.120 --> 55:45.640]  That's right.
[55:45.640 --> 55:46.480]  Where our backbone is.
[55:46.620 --> 55:46.780]  Really?
[55:46.920 --> 55:47.680]  Maybe you know this person.
[55:47.860 --> 55:48.540]  I don't know him.
[55:48.680 --> 55:49.500]  Maybe he's part of the backbone.
[55:50.600 --> 55:50.940]  I...
[55:51.500 --> 55:52.180]  Don't know him.
[55:52.320 --> 55:52.660]  Okay.
[55:52.800 --> 55:53.480]  Well, you know him now.
[55:53.480 --> 55:58.820]  He's somebody that supports the radio station and has helped us out and we appreciate that very much.
[55:59.120 --> 56:00.680]  212-209-295.
[56:00.680 --> 56:07.040]  I'll join the caller on the line and help bring us above a thousand bucks for the first hour, which would be a good thing to do, I think.
[56:08.980 --> 56:09.440]  Let's see.
[56:09.520 --> 56:14.060]  We have more excerpts from the H2K2 conference to get to.
[56:14.780 --> 56:17.960]  And we also have some news, listener feedback, that kind of thing.
[56:17.960 --> 56:20.680]  Any other tidbits from the Dayton Hamvention?
[56:20.820 --> 56:21.140]  Yes.
[56:21.320 --> 56:23.860]  You actually got some gifts from...
[56:23.860 --> 56:24.060]  Did I?
[56:24.700 --> 56:24.900]  Yeah.
[56:25.200 --> 56:26.120]  Edgar the serpent.
[56:26.340 --> 56:26.520]  That's right.
[56:26.520 --> 56:27.400]  Oh, hand them over.
[56:27.460 --> 56:27.800]  Let me see.
[56:28.040 --> 56:28.780]  Oh, look at this.
[56:29.320 --> 56:30.800]  A little box of...
[56:30.800 --> 56:31.580]  Oh, what's this here?
[56:33.200 --> 56:33.680]  Okay.
[56:33.980 --> 56:34.460]  I'm going to open this.
[56:34.460 --> 56:35.380]  This isn't going to, like...
[56:35.380 --> 56:36.000]  No, no, no, no.
[56:36.100 --> 56:37.200]  ...blow up or something on the air.
[56:38.240 --> 56:38.640]  All right.
[56:38.700 --> 56:39.420]  Two calls on the line.
[56:39.520 --> 56:40.500]  212-209-295.
[56:41.160 --> 56:41.860]  What is this?
[56:41.960 --> 56:42.620]  This is...
[56:43.160 --> 56:43.780]  My goodness.
[56:44.600 --> 56:44.920]  No.
[56:45.140 --> 56:46.500]  It's got water in it.
[56:47.680 --> 56:48.420]  Put it flat.
[56:48.620 --> 56:49.120]  Put it flat.
[56:49.320 --> 56:49.480]  Okay.
[56:49.560 --> 56:50.640]  This is like a...
[56:50.640 --> 56:51.800]  What do you call it thing?
[56:52.320 --> 56:52.640]  Level.
[56:53.040 --> 56:53.360]  Yeah.
[56:53.580 --> 56:54.820]  For when you're not on the level.
[56:55.680 --> 56:57.020]  Oh, I could certainly use that.
[56:57.640 --> 56:59.200]  It's good to know when things are on the level.
[56:59.420 --> 56:59.600]  Exactly.
[56:59.600 --> 57:04.640]  And now I know that the BAI board is completely on the level.
[57:04.840 --> 57:06.440]  It's nice and flat.
[57:07.300 --> 57:08.020]  Very nice.
[57:08.300 --> 57:09.400]  And this comes from...
[57:09.400 --> 57:10.660]  Edgar the Serpent.
[57:11.140 --> 57:11.620]  Well, thank you.
[57:11.620 --> 57:12.300]  You remember Edgar the Serpent.
[57:12.620 --> 57:13.520]  How could I forget?
[57:13.980 --> 57:14.480]  I can't really.
[57:15.020 --> 57:15.240]  Yeah.
[57:16.080 --> 57:18.100]  He sat with us at the table every time.
[57:18.540 --> 57:20.360]  And he joined us again this time.
[57:20.460 --> 57:21.000]  Well, that's great.
[57:21.140 --> 57:21.680]  That's really nice.
[57:21.780 --> 57:22.600]  Thank you very much for that.
[57:22.860 --> 57:27.980]  And here's another box that I might need some kind of implement to open, because it looks like it's sealed shut.
[57:28.140 --> 57:28.680]  You want these?
[57:28.680 --> 57:30.980]  2-1-2-2-0-9-2-9-5-0.
[57:31.040 --> 57:32.380]  Well, I'm opening my presence here.
[57:33.060 --> 57:34.060]  Feel free to...
[57:34.060 --> 57:35.280]  Yeah, if you could open that, that'd be great.
[57:35.860 --> 57:36.680]  Give us a call.
[57:37.100 --> 57:38.200]  We're up to 8-25.
[57:38.340 --> 57:38.960]  That's good.
[57:40.140 --> 57:43.060]  But, you know, it's 7-55 now.
[57:43.060 --> 57:44.220]  We're on for three hours tonight.
[57:45.300 --> 57:48.520]  And it's my personal goal to beat 1,000 by 8 o'clock.
[57:48.920 --> 57:49.940]  It's my personal goal.
[57:50.760 --> 57:51.280]  All right.
[57:51.400 --> 57:52.040]  Five more minutes.
[57:52.220 --> 57:52.860]  What do we have here?
[57:52.960 --> 57:54.840]  2-1-2-2-0-9-2-9-5-0.
[57:55.600 --> 57:57.560]  I don't think you'll guess what that is.
[57:57.560 --> 57:58.880]  Well, I haven't guessed yet.
[57:58.900 --> 58:00.360]  It's still wrapped up in paper.
[58:01.120 --> 58:02.420]  Well, that's when you would guess.
[58:02.700 --> 58:03.060]  Okay.
[58:05.020 --> 58:06.860]  And now it's wrapped up in something else.
[58:07.640 --> 58:08.600]  No, that's part of it.
[58:09.100 --> 58:09.740]  My goodness.
[58:09.760 --> 58:10.200]  What is this?
[58:10.200 --> 58:12.640]  It looks like some sort of a weapon of some sort.
[58:12.640 --> 58:12.720]  All right.
[58:13.620 --> 58:19.160]  It says remove pin before flight.
[58:21.080 --> 58:22.460]  Insert pin to shoulder.
[58:22.680 --> 58:25.300]  Do not force insertion or removal of pin.
[58:25.420 --> 58:26.800]  I'm afraid of this, whatever it is.
[58:28.600 --> 58:29.600]  And it won't hurt you.
[58:30.020 --> 58:30.960]  It looks like it will hurt me.
[58:31.060 --> 58:31.640]  It really does.
[58:31.740 --> 58:32.280]  It's pointy.
[58:33.040 --> 58:34.600]  It's got some sort of like trigger mechanism.
[58:34.780 --> 58:36.420]  It's got a wire connected to it.
[58:36.420 --> 58:37.760]  We can give our listeners a hint.
[58:37.880 --> 58:40.600]  It's something that we wish that George W.
[58:40.760 --> 58:42.800]  Bish pulled during his...
[58:42.800 --> 58:45.060]  Just before his recent landing on the aircraft carrier.
[58:46.660 --> 58:47.180]  It's...
[58:47.180 --> 58:47.860]  Okay.
[58:48.920 --> 58:49.600]  Go ahead.
[58:49.700 --> 58:52.760]  Explain it to our listeners because I'm too afraid to even touch this right now.
[58:52.760 --> 58:58.820]  This is actually the release for the ejection seat when you're flying the plane.
[58:58.820 --> 59:01.000]  This is what you push.
[59:01.620 --> 59:03.340]  Now, why didn't I recognize that?
[59:03.560 --> 59:05.180]  That's what I was surprised...
[59:05.180 --> 59:06.200]  A release for an ejection.
[59:06.300 --> 59:07.820]  I mean, everybody should know what that looks like.
[59:08.120 --> 59:09.960]  How in the world did you get that?
[59:10.360 --> 59:12.420]  I mean, is this the kind of thing they sell at Dayton now?
[59:12.480 --> 59:13.580]  It's gotten into a ham radio.
[59:13.800 --> 59:14.020]  Yes.
[59:14.160 --> 59:15.240]  This was a...
[59:15.240 --> 59:15.980]  This was something...
[59:15.980 --> 59:17.620]  This was something that was sold.
[59:18.160 --> 59:22.520]  I think if you went to the booth, you had to pay $8 to get one of these.
[59:22.660 --> 59:22.820]  Really?
[59:23.040 --> 59:25.900]  And it was sent along to you as a gift.
[59:26.120 --> 59:26.700]  Well, thank you.
[59:26.880 --> 59:28.340]  I'm not quite sure how I'm going to use this.
[59:28.340 --> 59:29.460]  Wear it in good health.
[59:30.220 --> 59:32.320]  Now, if I press this button, does something happen?
[59:32.500 --> 59:32.620]  Yeah.
[59:32.720 --> 59:33.060]  You notice?
[59:33.140 --> 59:34.100]  See the little releases down there?
[59:34.100 --> 59:34.900]  Yeah, I see it.
[59:34.900 --> 59:35.900]  And they look really powerful.
[59:36.620 --> 59:37.820]  I'm not pressing this button.
[59:37.900 --> 59:38.380]  I'm not crazy.
[59:38.580 --> 59:39.140]  I just did it.
[59:39.160 --> 59:39.540]  You can do it.
[59:39.620 --> 59:39.780]  Go ahead.
[59:39.880 --> 59:40.380]  You just did it?
[59:40.480 --> 59:40.600]  Yeah.
[59:42.220 --> 59:42.780]  Nothing happens?
[59:42.920 --> 59:43.180]  Yes.
[59:44.120 --> 59:44.740]  Oh, that's it?
[59:45.180 --> 59:46.920]  If it were in the airplane, something would happen.
[59:47.000 --> 59:47.920]  If I was in the airplane...
[59:47.920 --> 59:49.900]  Well, if I bring this on an airplane with me, what's going to happen?
[59:50.640 --> 59:51.840]  I'm sure I'll never get on the plane.
[59:52.120 --> 59:52.260]  Yeah.
[59:52.340 --> 59:53.380]  I won't get on the plane with that.
[59:53.820 --> 59:54.580]  Thank you very much.
[59:54.680 --> 59:55.980]  That also comes from Edgar the Serpent.
[59:56.180 --> 59:56.460]  Yes.
[59:56.460 --> 59:57.280]  Well, that's great.
[59:57.840 --> 59:58.540]  Anything else?
[59:58.640 --> 59:59.000]  Or is that it?
[01:00:00.020 --> 01:00:00.420]  Well...
[01:00:00.420 --> 01:00:01.320]  We have two calls on the line.
[01:00:01.420 --> 01:00:03.540]  212-209-2950.
[01:00:03.700 --> 01:00:04.340]  We're up to 850.
[01:00:05.600 --> 01:00:10.520]  And this takes a couple more people calling in with pledges to bring us over.
[01:00:10.700 --> 01:00:13.760]  Dayton is good for high-tech and low-tech.
[01:00:13.800 --> 01:00:14.140]  Yes.
[01:00:14.260 --> 01:00:15.420]  One of the things I brought back...
[01:00:15.420 --> 01:00:17.600]  I just brought a piece of it in here for you to see.
[01:00:17.860 --> 01:00:23.840]  I managed to get one of the voting booths from the last presidential election in Florida.
[01:00:23.840 --> 01:00:24.340]  Mm-hmm.
[01:00:24.880 --> 01:00:29.360]  And it has the little sticker from the supervisor of elections.
[01:00:29.720 --> 01:00:33.000]  And this is one of the cards that you would actually insert.
[01:00:33.260 --> 01:00:35.160]  It had the little Chad puncher.
[01:00:35.400 --> 01:00:35.600]  Uh-huh.
[01:00:36.200 --> 01:00:36.640]  And...
[01:00:36.640 --> 01:00:38.340]  Looks like the holes are cleanly punched, too.
[01:00:38.400 --> 01:00:39.100]  Some of them are, yeah.
[01:00:39.320 --> 01:00:39.380]  Uh-huh.
[01:00:39.380 --> 01:00:42.400]  This is what we've been practicing and playing with.
[01:00:42.600 --> 01:00:44.280]  That's a clear vote for Buchanan right there.
[01:00:44.860 --> 01:00:45.440]  Yeah, definitely.
[01:00:45.460 --> 01:00:46.660]  That's an actual ballot.
[01:00:47.040 --> 01:00:47.280]  Uh-huh.
[01:00:47.620 --> 01:00:48.060]  And...
[01:00:48.060 --> 01:00:49.420]  Why do you have an actual ballot?
[01:00:49.700 --> 01:00:51.320]  Because it came with my voting booth.
[01:00:51.860 --> 01:00:52.060]  Okay.
[01:00:52.640 --> 01:00:56.640]  But it says official ballot, general election, Hillsborough County, Florida, November 7th, 2000.
[01:00:57.240 --> 01:00:59.200]  I mean, that's the actual election day.
[01:00:59.280 --> 01:01:01.720]  That's the actual state and everything like that.
[01:01:02.020 --> 01:01:09.820]  So, um, shouldn't this be in the hands of like some, you know, uh, I don't know, security force someplace locked up behind closed doors?
[01:01:10.360 --> 01:01:11.160]  I guess.
[01:01:11.400 --> 01:01:12.260]  It just, uh...
[01:01:12.260 --> 01:01:13.020]  But yet, somehow it's here.
[01:01:13.020 --> 01:01:14.060]  This one must have fallen through the cracks.
[01:01:14.220 --> 01:01:14.460]  I see.
[01:01:14.460 --> 01:01:16.380]  There were a lot of missing ballots, if you recall.
[01:01:16.620 --> 01:01:18.080]  Yeah, well, this could be...
[01:01:18.080 --> 01:01:18.460]  I found one.
[01:01:18.760 --> 01:01:21.200]  This could be the reason why we're in the state we're in right now.
[01:01:22.780 --> 01:01:23.580]  Uh, all right.
[01:01:23.700 --> 01:01:25.580]  212-209-2950.
[01:01:25.780 --> 01:01:26.620]  We have one call on the line.
[01:01:26.740 --> 01:01:29.080]  Let's, uh, join that call with, um, with other pledges.
[01:01:29.260 --> 01:01:39.840]  What we're going to do now is go into another, um, uh, part of H2K2, uh, where, um, um, we'll, uh, kind of bring you back to that conference if you were there.
[01:01:39.840 --> 01:01:42.740]  If you weren't there, you'll hear some of, uh, the shenanigans that took place.
[01:01:43.400 --> 01:01:46.580]  Um, and boy, uh, we, we certainly had fun.
[01:01:46.740 --> 01:01:47.660]  We certainly had all kinds of things.
[01:01:47.760 --> 01:01:53.200]  This was a panel that I was on, um, and it's something I'll never forget for the rest of my life.
[01:01:53.400 --> 01:01:55.080]  Um, the social engineering panel.
[01:01:55.160 --> 01:01:55.900]  Oh, this was fun.
[01:01:56.020 --> 01:01:56.940]  Yeah, this was a lot of fun.
[01:01:57.380 --> 01:02:05.500]  Uh, where basically, uh, for those who don't know, uh, social engineering is, is where you try to get information from somebody, um, who's not supposed to give you that information.
[01:02:05.500 --> 01:02:09.100]  You know, information on where something is or how something works, things like that.
[01:02:09.440 --> 01:02:12.860]  Uh, so what we're going to do now is, is play some excerpts from that.
[01:02:13.060 --> 01:02:25.320]  And again, the phone number 212-209-2950, uh, you'll get, um, uh, if you choose, you'll get this particular hour and, uh, and two more or any three hours that you want for a pledge of $75.
[01:02:25.320 --> 01:02:25.560]  Uh, and now we're done.
[00:02.240 --> 00:07.720]  And for those of you tuning in for the Personal Computer Show, well, it's not going to be on this week, unfortunately, because we're on instead.
[00:08.220 --> 00:10.460]  And we need to hear from you.
[00:10.660 --> 00:12.220]  212-209-2950.
[00:12.860 --> 00:14.220]  Let's journey back now.
[00:14.580 --> 00:15.380]  Oh, listen to that.
[00:16.900 --> 00:19.680]  That's the sound of a CD in pause.
[00:20.800 --> 00:21.560]  Isn't that cool?
[00:21.840 --> 00:30.800]  So I'm going to hit a button, and that's going to turn this into English, and you'll hear something that happened back in July 2002.
[00:31.680 --> 00:35.700]  At the Hotel Pennsylvania in New York, where we kind of made history with social engineering.
[00:36.660 --> 00:38.660]  Again, 212-209-2950.
[00:38.880 --> 00:40.100]  Please call while this is playing.
[00:40.260 --> 00:41.700]  We'll be back in a few minutes.
[00:41.920 --> 00:50.340]  ...the social engineering, and make a few pitiful attempts ourselves at getting someone to tell us something they really shouldn't tell us.
[00:51.280 --> 00:53.720]  Does anybody have the advisory that got issued?
[00:53.820 --> 00:55.620]  There's a Slashdot thing a couple of days ago.
[00:55.800 --> 00:58.120]  Does anybody have a printout of that, or a computer we could read?
[00:59.300 --> 01:00.220]  I know it's on the web.
[01:00.360 --> 01:00.920]  I'm not on the web.
[01:01.000 --> 01:01.780]  I'm on the stage.
[01:04.360 --> 01:06.140]  But basically, this happened a couple of years ago.
[01:06.220 --> 01:09.300]  If anyone has it, just bring it up on a piece of paper, printout, whatever.
[01:10.940 --> 01:17.220]  A couple of years ago, when we had H2K, there was a similar advisory from AT&T Security.
[01:17.680 --> 01:21.640]  And they were basically asking people... Is everybody getting that feedback, or is it just me?
[01:21.640 --> 01:22.320]  No, I don't have it.
[01:23.520 --> 01:25.580]  Maybe we should not have that.
[01:25.800 --> 01:26.080]  Thank you.
[01:29.700 --> 01:35.660]  Yeah, so basically they sent out an advisory, a warning, saying that a bunch of hackers are getting together.
[01:35.800 --> 01:40.380]  It might be social engineering as part of some sort of competition or something like that.
[01:40.440 --> 01:46.400]  So we called them last time and asked them about that, and they gave us some information they shouldn't have given us.
[01:46.440 --> 01:46.700]  Thank you.
[01:49.820 --> 01:51.260]  It was all in good fun, though.
[01:52.100 --> 01:54.540]  We told them, but he hung up after he found out who we were.
[01:56.660 --> 01:57.360]  Let's see.
[01:58.060 --> 01:59.020]  Hung up in fear.
[01:59.260 --> 02:03.680]  This is the memo that went out to people on AT&T, I believe.
[02:04.680 --> 02:13.000]  Caution, be careful about giving information to anyone you don't know and those making unusual information requests by claiming to be an AT&T employee or customer.
[02:14.720 --> 02:17.780]  Claiming to be an AT&T customer, I didn't know that was something that was unusual.
[02:21.460 --> 02:30.120]  The H2K2 Hackers on Planet Earth 2002 Hacker Conference will take place this weekend, Friday, July 12th, Sunday, July 14th, 2001.
[02:30.260 --> 02:31.200]  I don't quite know.
[02:33.700 --> 02:35.160]  This is AT&T, after all.
[02:35.520 --> 02:40.060]  In New York City, this conference will be a gathering of over 5,000 computer hackers.
[02:40.060 --> 02:44.340]  Well, they really anticipate a lot more people than we actually thought we'd get ourselves.
[02:45.480 --> 02:49.880]  Guest speakers, computer enthusiasts, and then they give the website, which was nice.
[02:52.840 --> 03:04.220]  In 1994, 1997, and 2000, at the previous Hull Hackers on Planet Earth conferences, live demonstrations of social engineering techniques were performed in front of thousands of hackers and other attendees.
[03:04.220 --> 03:07.640]  The Hacker Panel... This is like a PR announcement for us.
[03:07.900 --> 03:08.520]  It's great.
[03:09.760 --> 03:18.100]  The Hacker Panel... In fact, I'm wondering if somebody actually managed to get this issued as an AT&T memorandum who doesn't work for AT&T.
[03:19.980 --> 03:28.340]  The Hacker Panel dialed live into AT&T offices and centers and demonstrated how to get proprietary information by pretending to be an AT&T employee and customer.
[03:28.880 --> 03:29.220]  Okay?
[03:29.680 --> 03:37.160]  These calls were recorded and videotaped by the hackers and are sold as instructional material at future hacker conferences.
[03:43.640 --> 03:47.420]  There is a very high likelihood that AT&T will be a target again this weekend.
[03:50.240 --> 03:51.680]  Does anyone have their phone number?
[03:51.820 --> 03:52.680]  I don't have their phone number.
[03:52.680 --> 03:55.420]  If anyone has AT&T corporate security phone number, please let us know.
[03:56.720 --> 03:57.700]  It's on the memo?
[04:00.240 --> 04:00.960]  Oh, Lord!
[04:09.100 --> 04:10.340]  We don't have to do anything.
[04:10.620 --> 04:11.640]  They do it all themselves.
[04:13.020 --> 04:15.980]  We were scraping for ideas and they just gave them all to us.
[04:17.000 --> 04:18.540]  We're never going to be able to get through now.
[04:20.360 --> 04:24.280]  Okay, the social engineering contest is scheduled for Sunday, July 14th at 4 p.m.
[04:24.460 --> 04:25.200]  Eastern Time, 1 p.m.
[04:25.300 --> 04:25.800]  Pacific Time.
[04:26.600 --> 04:29.900]  During this period, hackers may be dialing in to AT&T to get information.
[04:30.340 --> 04:41.180]  AT&T network security would like to warn our employees to be on guard this entire weekend for any unknown person calling and claiming to be an AT&T employee to request proprietary information or claiming to be an AT&T customer with unusual requests.
[04:41.400 --> 04:54.820]  Remember, if anyone who is unknown to you calls for proprietary information or makes unusual requests, Please follow your procedure by requesting additional information to ensure the person is who they say they are before giving out any information.
[04:55.580 --> 05:00.620]  If the person is claiming to be an AT&T employee, please request name, call back, and H.R.I.D.
[05:00.740 --> 05:01.000]  number.
[05:01.140 --> 05:01.940]  Hmm, that's interesting.
[05:02.000 --> 05:02.600]  Now we know that.
[05:05.800 --> 05:07.440]  If you have my H.R.I.D.
[05:07.500 --> 05:08.640]  number, I seem to have forgotten it.
[05:11.200 --> 05:15.220]  Then verify... Is that a human resources idea?
[05:15.760 --> 05:16.200]  Okay.
[05:16.560 --> 05:24.860]  Then verify through POST, or the email global address list, if the information is correct, and even request to call the employee back at their contact number.
[05:25.280 --> 05:37.860]  If the person is claiming to be an AT&T customer, verify this by requesting additional info on their account, like address and social security number, which I never gave to AT&T, and even request to call the person back at their contact number listed on the account.
[05:38.700 --> 05:40.420]  Please be on guard for any unusual requests.
[05:40.600 --> 05:45.820]  Verify the person is an AT&T employee or legitimate customer, and if they have a need to know the information they are asking.
[05:46.020 --> 05:49.000]  If you can verify employment or number, don't give out the information.
[05:49.200 --> 05:57.100]  If you are still in doubt regarding the legitimacy of the caller, then speak to a supervisor regarding the situation before proceeding further, and inform the caller you will call them back.
[05:57.280 --> 06:01.800]  If you still have questions, you can call the security hotline, which number is on here, which I'd be a fool to read here.
[06:03.960 --> 06:08.700]  Remember, you do not want to be the lucky guest of honor on a telephone call conference this weekend.
[06:11.220 --> 06:13.220]  What happened to Jim two years ago, anyway?
[06:13.460 --> 06:18.360]  With thousands of hackers listening to you and attempting to scam AT&T out of proprietary information, please be on guard.
[06:20.140 --> 06:20.580]  Well...
[06:20.580 --> 06:23.160]  If that's not an invitation, I don't know what is.
[06:32.710 --> 06:37.650]  I honestly don't know if this number is right, or if it's not going to work, or if it's busy, or whatever.
[06:41.330 --> 06:42.570]  Great, okay, it's been tried.
[06:43.790 --> 06:46.430]  Okay, well, you know, we can try something, I guess.
[06:46.610 --> 06:47.910]  I don't know how well this is going to work.
[06:48.670 --> 06:49.850]  Is this phone actually hooked up?
[06:49.970 --> 06:50.830]  Let's see if we can get a dial tone.
[06:53.770 --> 06:54.610]  Still got those clicks.
[06:54.790 --> 06:54.890]  Okay.
[06:55.330 --> 06:58.070]  It's going to be extremely loud when I dial, so please turn down the audio.
[06:58.370 --> 06:59.850]  Now, they can hear me on this?
[07:00.470 --> 07:01.210]  Okay, great.
[07:03.310 --> 07:04.250]  It's not breaking the dial tone.
[07:09.300 --> 07:10.220]  It's not breaking the dial tone.
[07:10.220 --> 07:10.360]  It's not breaking the dial tone.
[07:10.880 --> 07:11.100]  Okay.
[07:13.860 --> 07:14.960]  I think that's the phone.
[07:15.560 --> 07:16.020]  Uh-oh.
[07:16.680 --> 07:18.380]  This is going to make a horrible off-the-hook noise.
[07:23.560 --> 07:27.920]  Okay, well, why does this might tell a social engineering story while we're getting the technical snafus worked out?
[07:31.010 --> 07:32.130]  Yeah, introduce yourselves.
[07:32.450 --> 07:33.210]  I need a microphone.
[07:33.570 --> 07:34.210]  There we are.
[07:34.730 --> 07:43.530]  Well, yeah, I just kind of didn't really know I was going to be on this panel today, but to take up some time, I have some real funny social engineering stories.
[07:44.030 --> 07:49.230]  Some of them I tried to get okayed with my partner in crime, but I couldn't seem to find them.
[07:49.230 --> 07:54.450]  Probably some of the best social engineering that we ever did was with the Caldor telephone system.
[07:55.970 --> 08:08.530]  Back in the day, before Caldor went bankrupt for reasons which I'm not entirely sure of, they used to have a PBX system, you know, Private Branch Exchange, which had a number very similar to their actual store number.
[08:08.790 --> 08:16.710]  I think the last four digits of the number were something like 6670, and the actual PBX number was 6668.
[08:16.710 --> 08:18.170]  It was just a couple digits off.
[08:18.530 --> 08:22.930]  To the untrained ear, it would sound like you were hung up on, you get a dial tone.
[08:23.210 --> 08:27.650]  But we were smart enough to know that it was a PBX and it needed a four-digit code to get in.
[08:27.890 --> 08:38.570]  So for a while, we didn't quite know what the code was until one night we were on a conference call, and we said, you know what, let's try C-A-L-D for Caldor.
[08:39.230 --> 08:41.990]  2-2-5-3, I think it was, and it let us right in.
[08:42.990 --> 08:54.790]  And a friend of mine happened to be quite familiar with their phone system and knew that once you got into the internal phone system, all you had to dial was 6-3, and your call would be transferred over to the store's PA system.
[08:58.710 --> 09:04.610]  So from anywhere in the world, you could take control of any Caldor phone system, any PA system.
[09:04.610 --> 09:09.730]  They all had the same code on it in the entire East Coast of the United States, 2-2-5-3.
[09:10.110 --> 09:15.610]  So we used to call up, we actually, we read the entire first page of Clockwork Orange over the PA system.
[09:17.790 --> 09:22.590]  We used to put ridiculous items on sale for the first 10 people that can get to the back of the store.
[09:22.750 --> 09:25.790]  You know, the 10 discs Sony CD changer will be $20.
[09:27.630 --> 09:31.070]  A 10% discount for anybody wearing red, things like that.
[09:32.350 --> 09:34.590]  Please clean up the Z section.
[09:36.170 --> 09:37.250]  That kind of stuff.
[09:37.750 --> 09:40.410]  We used to play ministry over the PA system.
[09:42.190 --> 09:52.110]  Finally, they caught on and realized that the way that they could stop us from taking total control over the store would be to make a page over us.
[09:52.170 --> 09:56.590]  So we'd have a good five or six seconds, and then somebody would make a page over us.
[09:56.590 --> 09:59.490]  But the funny thing about it was they always thought it was somebody in the store.
[10:00.870 --> 10:06.630]  They had no idea there was any way in which somebody from outside the store could get into their phone system.
[10:06.630 --> 10:12.170]  And other stores where they're busier stores where people would be stocking up at night.
[10:12.450 --> 10:15.210]  We'd get on the PA system and say, I'm in the store.
[10:29.080 --> 10:29.840]  That was fun.
[10:29.920 --> 10:32.800]  We also got a couple H2K2 attendees this weekend.
[10:32.800 --> 10:38.540]  I don't know if anybody got a call from Jonathan Guile at the front desk just to make sure everybody was very okay.
[10:38.540 --> 10:43.200]  And we'd like to tell our H2K attendees the rules very clearly about the hotel.
[10:43.740 --> 10:46.320]  Most specifically that lights out were at 10 p.m.
[10:47.940 --> 10:52.100]  People caught on when we said that, but up until then it was pretty funny.
[10:52.520 --> 10:54.140]  But that was us if you got a call.
[10:55.840 --> 10:58.000]  Anyone else have any other funny stories?
[10:58.520 --> 10:59.140]  In short Cheshire?
[11:00.960 --> 11:02.880]  What's for public consumption is the question.
[11:03.300 --> 11:04.440]  I think that's true.
[11:05.700 --> 11:07.420]  There's a time I...
[11:08.140 --> 11:09.320]  Okay, is my mic hot?
[11:09.520 --> 11:10.020]  Thank you.
[11:11.160 --> 11:16.240]  I used to play with the Marisat Network, the Maritime Communications Satellite Network, back in the 70s.
[11:16.560 --> 11:18.540]  I went to a West Coast computer fair.
[11:19.000 --> 11:24.200]  This was back when I lived in New York City, and I was playing on Marisat, the Maritime Communications Satellite.
[11:24.200 --> 11:30.780]  And from here, we're only about 40 miles from Southbury, where the Atlantic Satellite Station is, where the Atlantic satellites.
[11:31.100 --> 11:42.040]  I went to California to visit a ComSat General Earth Station and was invited into by the station engineer.
[11:43.120 --> 11:46.160]  Because the station manager was out of town when I called up to request.
[11:46.480 --> 11:48.960]  Basically, I was reporting for ROM Magazine.
[11:48.960 --> 11:55.840]  The fellow who was the personal computer editor of the New York Times was a friend of mine and was starting to ROM Magazine at the time, read-only magazine.
[11:56.260 --> 12:00.300]  So, as communications editor of ROM, I called and asked for a tour of the Earth Station.
[12:00.960 --> 12:07.100]  The station engineer invited me in, and we're talking to the telex and telephone operators.
[12:07.580 --> 12:23.060]  Now, they're rather confused because while they have to place the telephone calls for the guys on the ships all the time, it wasn't automatic service in those early days, they were surprised that there was so much work on the telex call they had them do as well.
[12:23.540 --> 12:26.980]  Now, I had it over on them because I had been to a ship, and they hadn't.
[12:27.460 --> 12:30.660]  So, I explained about my buddy Antonio on the Italica.
[12:30.820 --> 12:38.920]  I just took the bus out of Port Authority across River to Secaucus and visited his ship when his ship had docked.
[12:39.460 --> 12:43.420]  He still had to run up and down the ladders, passing message traffic for the captain.
[12:43.920 --> 12:55.780]  He had to sit with the ear cans, listening to Morse code from Rome, because Mirosat was still too expensive to use on a day-to-day basis, typing into a Ditto master to run off a daily newspaper for the crew.
[12:56.020 --> 13:00.920]  He also had to keep his radars working for the ship, safety of life at sea issues.
[13:00.920 --> 13:08.960]  He still had the 500 kilohertz radios he had to keep a watch on in case of a seaborne disaster they could respond to.
[13:09.160 --> 13:11.420]  That was back in the days when Morse code was still king.
[13:13.710 --> 13:18.100]  And, ladies, any work these guys can slough off onto anybody else, you're going to see it.
[13:18.800 --> 13:25.980]  Well, after my host heard this story about the guys on the ships, he's looking at me with a swollen look of respect because I actually know what I'm talking about.
[13:25.980 --> 13:27.240]  I've actually been out from the ships.
[13:28.730 --> 13:31.880]  We leave that room, and we're in the corridor.
[13:32.000 --> 13:34.740]  My girlfriend, who's with us on the tour, asks him a question.
[13:34.920 --> 13:36.680]  I don't even know what it was at the time.
[13:36.800 --> 13:41.400]  But while he's answering that, I'm looking at the company bulletin board next to us.
[13:41.460 --> 13:44.200]  You know, the local softball, the sports company picnic is coming up.
[13:44.680 --> 13:48.900]  And the telex from Washington, subject, unauthorized access to Mirosat-Cheshire.
[13:52.840 --> 14:00.540]  And if this Cheshire character were to pop up on your terminal, to hit the FIGS-D to catch the answer back from his terminal, we can find out where the hell he is.
[14:01.000 --> 14:11.940]  Well, of course, I was using a Model 33 teletype from my place of business, where we had Model 33s with the Altair 8800 computers, and the acoustic coupler.
[14:12.140 --> 14:15.820]  That's how I got into the TWX teletype network, which sent me out to Mirosat.
[14:17.440 --> 14:25.140]  But seeing that memo on the wall from Washington, that's why I went 3,000 miles to visit an earth station before I went 40 miles up the road.
[14:33.990 --> 14:36.210]  Okay, we're going to try this again.
[14:37.070 --> 14:37.930]  This is a warning.
[14:38.050 --> 14:40.190]  I'm going to pick up the phone so we don't deafen the people in the audience.
[14:42.750 --> 14:43.350]  Yeah.
[14:43.350 --> 14:43.950]  Okay.
[14:45.790 --> 14:46.390]  Excellent.
[14:48.930 --> 14:50.890]  Keep in mind, also, some people can read Touchstone here.
[15:02.100 --> 15:06.400]  You have dialed a number that is not available from your calling area.
[15:07.400 --> 15:07.940]  1202.
[15:11.240 --> 15:12.320]  Those bastards!
[15:13.980 --> 15:17.260]  The calling area, no doubt, in this block, that's...
[15:18.380 --> 15:22.620]  You have dialed a number that is not available from your calling area.
[15:23.780 --> 15:24.320]  1202.
[15:24.440 --> 15:24.980]  Okay.
[15:32.660 --> 15:35.460]  The suggestions we're getting are to opt-diver...
[15:35.460 --> 15:37.140]  Well, the thing is, okay, here's the problem.
[15:38.260 --> 15:40.040]  You can talk about this problem, Bernie.
[15:41.380 --> 15:52.060]  We probably had to make about 25 or 30 telephone calls over the past two or three weeks to get Verizon to simply install two regular phone lines up here on the 18th floor of the hotel.
[15:53.060 --> 15:53.540]  Just...
[15:53.940 --> 15:54.740]  I hung up.
[15:55.800 --> 15:56.080]  There.
[15:56.640 --> 15:57.540]  You're hung up now.
[15:58.020 --> 15:58.180]  Okay.
[15:59.440 --> 16:02.820]  Just unbelievable mistakes Verizon was making.
[16:03.020 --> 16:06.940]  Every conceivable step of the way, if there was any possible way to get something wrong, they did.
[16:06.940 --> 16:09.720]  And they even figured out ways I couldn't figure out to get this wrong.
[16:11.160 --> 16:16.800]  Up until yesterday, we finally had everything working, including a long-distance service on both lines.
[16:17.000 --> 16:20.500]  And today, no long-distance service on either line.
[16:20.560 --> 16:21.360]  In fact, not...
[16:21.780 --> 16:23.800]  There's just no long-distance carrier on either line.
[16:23.840 --> 16:28.680]  So we had to get some AT&T calling cards to make these long-distance calls with.
[16:28.680 --> 16:30.240]  So you have to bear with a little extra dialing.
[16:30.900 --> 16:31.560]  Could I...
[16:31.560 --> 16:34.180]  Could I make a quick announcement apropos of Bernie's story?
[16:34.460 --> 16:37.260]  I actually run a website, VerizonEatsPoop.com.
[16:38.780 --> 16:39.220]  It's...
[16:39.220 --> 16:44.460]  It was out of commission for a while, but we're back up and running, selling t-shirts and making Verizon mad.
[16:44.640 --> 16:46.840]  So we hope to see a grievance from Bernie soon.
[16:51.370 --> 16:52.770]  Okay, so we have...
[16:52.770 --> 16:54.690]  Someone donated some AT&T calling cards to us.
[16:54.790 --> 16:57.170]  I mean, not, you know, someone else's.
[16:57.310 --> 16:59.870]  The prepaid calling cards, which...
[16:59.870 --> 17:01.630]  I'm not sure if this will allow us...
[17:03.370 --> 17:03.850]  What's this?
[17:06.430 --> 17:06.790]  This.
[17:07.570 --> 17:10.730]  Yeah, someone also handed us an HR ID number, which they somehow got.
[17:17.460 --> 17:17.820]  So...
[17:18.280 --> 17:20.700]  So the idea is I'm going to try to call the 800 number off this thing.
[17:20.760 --> 17:21.320]  Is that going to work?
[17:21.320 --> 17:22.580]  Well, we can try, I guess.
[17:23.160 --> 17:23.400]  All right.
[17:23.980 --> 17:27.280]  So the first thing we do is we call the, uh...
[17:27.280 --> 17:28.760]  Of course, my code's going to go out to the world.
[17:35.550 --> 17:38.150]  Oops, I mis-dialed him, so he...
[17:38.930 --> 17:39.690]  It happens.
[17:40.170 --> 17:40.830]  All right, let's try again.
[17:48.690 --> 17:52.810]  You have dialed a number that is not available from your calling area.
[17:53.530 --> 17:56.270]  Did they cut us off completely from 800 numbers, too?
[17:56.830 --> 17:58.750]  You know, I wonder...
[17:59.270 --> 18:05.970]  It makes me wonder if the, uh, person who wrote that memo had anything to do with the change of service on these lines overnight.
[18:05.970 --> 18:08.730]  You have dialed a number that is not available from your calling area.
[18:08.730 --> 18:09.710]  It's 1-800 number.
[18:09.730 --> 18:10.590]  1-800 number.
[18:10.590 --> 18:10.730]  1-800 number.
[18:11.010 --> 18:11.330]  Okay.
[18:16.790 --> 18:17.590]  Again, get ready.
[18:18.550 --> 18:19.250]  Okay, what am I going to do?
[18:21.750 --> 18:23.770]  All right, we'll try 10-10-288, see what happens.
[18:35.090 --> 18:36.410]  AT&T.
[18:36.630 --> 18:40.130]  To close the call, please have a member that you are calling.
[18:40.670 --> 18:42.690]  For 00 info, U.S.
[18:42.830 --> 18:44.170]  directory, press 1.
[18:44.690 --> 18:49.530]  For other requests, please say information or credit now.
[18:50.550 --> 18:53.590]  For rates, terms and conditions, press 0.
[18:55.090 --> 18:56.070]  What am I doing?
[18:56.830 --> 18:58.930]  Please hold for operator assistance.
[18:59.790 --> 19:01.390]  I'm going to ask her for help.
[19:15.780 --> 19:17.500]  AT&T, how may I help you?
[19:17.740 --> 19:18.500]  Yes, hi.
[19:18.800 --> 19:20.600]  We're trying to get out on this line.
[19:20.780 --> 19:24.760]  I'm calling from AT&T Repair, HRID 847-5324.
[19:26.180 --> 19:28.520]  We're having trouble reaching 800 numbers on this line.
[19:28.660 --> 19:30.360]  Are you able to patch us through?
[19:31.460 --> 19:32.840]  Not an 800 number, I can't.
[19:32.860 --> 19:33.360]  I'm sorry.
[19:33.640 --> 19:35.220]  Any other number, I can't, but I'm toll-free.
[19:35.640 --> 19:37.280]  I'm sorry, I'm not getting you.
[19:37.540 --> 19:39.880]  I cannot dial any toll-free number for you at all.
[19:40.120 --> 19:41.580]  I'll transfer you to a separate box.
[19:41.760 --> 19:42.100]  All right, thanks.
[19:42.100 --> 19:42.740]  Can you help me?
[19:43.000 --> 19:43.260]  Can you help me?
[19:46.250 --> 19:48.270]  AT&T Supervisors are getting in trouble.
[19:48.430 --> 19:49.070]  Can I help you?
[19:49.930 --> 19:51.230]  Yes, actually, hi.
[19:51.570 --> 19:55.070]  This is Randy Reaver from Repair.
[19:55.470 --> 19:59.910]  We're working on a line in the Hotel Pennsylvania, and we're trying to get out on the 800 line.
[20:01.090 --> 20:02.570]  And we're having trouble with that.
[20:02.770 --> 20:04.390]  I was wondering if you might be able to help us.
[20:05.030 --> 20:10.070]  I'm very sorry, sir, but the operators are not able to dial 1-800 number.
[20:10.350 --> 20:12.030]  What happens if you try?
[20:12.970 --> 20:14.450]  I won't be able to try, sir.
[20:14.650 --> 20:15.090]  I'm sorry?
[20:15.090 --> 20:17.590]  I'm sorry, I will not be able to try.
[20:17.930 --> 20:18.630]  Uh-huh, but...
[20:18.630 --> 20:25.350]  If this is 800 repair, I can give you the number if you want to try to reach the 800 repair service center.
[20:25.790 --> 20:27.150]  800 repair service center?
[20:27.350 --> 20:27.930]  Sure, why not?
[20:28.470 --> 20:30.610]  The number to call is 1-800...
[20:31.650 --> 20:33.610]  3-2-3000.
[20:39.590 --> 20:39.950]  Hello?
[20:40.290 --> 20:40.310]  Randy?
[20:40.690 --> 20:41.590]  Did you get the number?
[20:41.730 --> 20:42.370]  No, I didn't get it.
[20:42.970 --> 20:45.750]  Hey, Randy, I'm sorry, you said you were with repair, is that correct?
[20:46.270 --> 20:46.590]  It's wrong?
[20:46.710 --> 20:46.810]  Yeah.
[20:47.190 --> 20:47.490]  Okay.
[20:47.510 --> 20:48.410]  So I had the TV on.
[20:48.810 --> 20:51.950]  All right then, Randy, then you should know what number you need to contact.
[20:52.530 --> 20:53.450]  Well, that's the problem.
[20:53.570 --> 20:55.830]  I'm trying to contact that 800 number and it's not going through.
[20:56.090 --> 20:57.850]  Well, Randy, I'm sorry, I won't be able to...
[20:57.850 --> 20:58.270]  I'm sorry?
[20:58.690 --> 21:00.870]  I'm sorry, I will not be able to assist you.
[21:02.050 --> 21:03.870]  You know, this is why we don't make any money.
[21:04.090 --> 21:05.890]  We don't cooperate with each other.
[21:06.950 --> 21:07.430]  Okay.
[21:07.690 --> 21:08.190]  Thanks, anyway.
[21:08.770 --> 21:08.790]  Thank you.
[21:13.070 --> 21:14.030]  Thank you.
[21:21.420 --> 21:27.900]  You're listening to a rebroadcast of the H2K2 panel on social engineering.
[21:27.900 --> 21:29.290]  We're going to continue with that in just a moment.
[21:29.290 --> 21:32.010]  I wanted to give out the phone number, 212-209-2950.
[21:32.440 --> 21:35.770]  We're in the middle of a pledge drive here at WBAI.
[21:36.460 --> 21:47.600]  And what you're listening to right now is a panel that took place in July of 2002 where we basically sat around with several hundred of our closest friends and made some funny phone calls.
[21:47.600 --> 21:53.760]  And the one that we're about to make, actually, is probably one of the craziest ones we ever did.
[21:54.040 --> 22:02.840]  At the point we're at now, we're just kind of trying to get the phone system to work properly and get our bearings because, as you recall, Bernie, you're still on the phone with us, aren't you?
[22:03.000 --> 22:03.560]  Yes, I'm still here.
[22:03.560 --> 22:05.860]  No, AT&T kind of cut us off.
[22:05.980 --> 22:07.480]  That was the whole problem there.
[22:07.560 --> 22:09.240]  We weren't able to make long-distance calls.
[22:09.380 --> 22:21.020]  We weren't able to make 800 calls because of that memo that floated around that said that a bunch of computer hackers are going to be doing social engineering on this day and we need to prevent them from doing whatever it is they're doing.
[22:22.000 --> 22:32.520]  Yeah, actually, I researched that after H2K2 and I talked to some people at AT&T and the information I was getting was conflicting and it appeared they were hiding something.
[22:32.700 --> 22:40.100]  So it sounded like AT&T actually deliberately removed the long-distance service from those lines.
[22:40.260 --> 22:42.920]  So we'll just have to use another route next time.
[22:43.140 --> 22:46.520]  Yeah, well, we were able to get through pretty easily.
[22:46.680 --> 22:51.740]  People donated their calling cards and we also made some local calls, which they wanted to weren't able to stop.
[22:52.100 --> 22:53.940]  And we're going to get to that in just a moment.
[22:54.040 --> 22:56.440]  Again, our phone number is 212-209-2950.
[22:56.440 --> 23:00.000]  You can get a copy of that plus two other videos.
[23:00.620 --> 23:04.520]  Or you can get three completely different videos from the H2K2 conference.
[23:05.630 --> 23:10.920]  And you can call us 212-209-2950 to find out exactly how to get those.
[23:11.160 --> 23:16.920]  You can also get a 2600 hooded sweatshirt, which is another one of the premiums we're offering here tonight.
[23:16.920 --> 23:29.020]  And everybody who calls in and pledges 25 or over will get an off-the-hook t-shirt, which is not available to the general public, only to our friends who listen to this radio station and help us out.
[23:29.180 --> 23:32.080]  When we come to you for financial support.
[23:32.200 --> 23:34.600]  212-209-2950.
[23:35.160 --> 23:36.580]  See something of the hacker world.
[23:36.660 --> 23:45.340]  Remember, you're hearing audio right now, and I know there's some hums and buzzes and things like that, which basically you always get that in situations like this.
[23:45.440 --> 23:47.600]  But I think they come out more when you play it on the radio.
[23:47.790 --> 23:53.020]  When I was watching this before on video, you can't hear it at all.
[23:53.160 --> 23:55.580]  I mean, I couldn't hear it at all on a TV set.
[23:56.240 --> 24:02.700]  But we're also going to try and clean that up a little bit more as well for the actual final product, which is in the process of being finished.
[24:03.180 --> 24:05.080]  Jeff, you've got some more people to thank.
[24:05.440 --> 24:05.790]  Yeah, yeah.
[24:05.900 --> 24:08.280]  You brought us over to the $1,000 mark, which, thank you very much.
[24:08.980 --> 24:13.840]  Yeah, we've got, let's see, someone that just wants it to be Danbury, Connecticut.
[24:14.320 --> 24:14.540]  Okay.
[24:14.740 --> 24:15.860]  That's a lovely community.
[24:15.980 --> 24:16.520]  Danbury, Connecticut.
[24:16.520 --> 24:18.180]  Thank you very much for your support.
[24:18.420 --> 24:20.920]  We've got Tim from Aurora, Colorado.
[24:21.380 --> 24:21.760]  All right.
[24:22.460 --> 24:24.340]  Christopher from Maywood, New Jersey.
[24:26.290 --> 24:28.000]  Daniel from Albany, New York.
[24:30.500 --> 24:32.360]  I'll just say Atlanta, Georgia here.
[24:32.360 --> 24:33.460]  Okay, more from Georgia.
[24:33.600 --> 24:34.760]  Thank you very much for calling.
[24:35.060 --> 24:37.240]  212-209-2950 is our number.
[24:37.380 --> 24:39.500]  Join that one caller on the line.
[24:40.200 --> 24:42.000]  Martin from North Belmar, New York.
[24:43.520 --> 24:45.320]  Miguel from Westbury, New York.
[24:46.760 --> 24:48.020]  That's what we've got so far.
[24:48.240 --> 24:50.700]  But we're getting calls on the station line.
[24:50.780 --> 24:52.790]  We really need calls on the...
[24:52.790 --> 24:54.520]  You know, someone's cleaning the window out.
[24:54.560 --> 24:56.960]  I thought they were waving frantically at me, and they're cleaning the window.
[24:58.370 --> 25:00.940]  Okay, that's about as confusing as it could possibly get here.
[25:00.940 --> 25:03.280]  Thank you very much for doing that right now.
[25:04.400 --> 25:06.620]  212-209-2950 is our phone number.
[25:06.700 --> 25:07.680]  We have one call on the line.
[25:07.790 --> 25:10.140]  We're up to 1275 in pledges.
[25:10.280 --> 25:14.660]  We need to bring that up significantly in order to keep up the pace.
[25:16.350 --> 25:22.790]  These marathons, we have to raise about a million dollars, and we usually do because of the efforts of everybody pitching in.
[25:22.980 --> 25:26.240]  So one person calling leads to another person calling, et cetera, et cetera.
[25:27.020 --> 25:32.000]  And that's how basically we put everything together, radio shows, the conferences, the magazine.
[25:32.260 --> 25:34.080]  It's a lot of people combining efforts.
[25:34.080 --> 25:38.180]  So we're asking you to join us and help us reach that stage.
[25:38.180 --> 25:42.860]  We're going to go back now to the remainder of the social engineering, this social engineering segment.
[25:42.980 --> 25:43.660]  It's not the whole thing.
[25:43.740 --> 25:44.820]  We don't have time to play all of it.
[25:45.020 --> 25:49.740]  But we do want to play this one phone call, which was kind of historical in nature.
[25:50.180 --> 25:51.120]  Hysterical, some might say.
[25:51.960 --> 25:54.380]  While it's playing, please give us a call.
[25:54.380 --> 25:56.760]  Call 212-209-2950.
[25:56.780 --> 26:02.260]  I'd like to sound a lot happier when we come back after this is over because we will have gotten a flurry of phone calls.
[26:02.400 --> 26:03.400]  Again, that phone number.
[26:03.500 --> 26:04.060]  Write it down.
[26:04.220 --> 26:04.780]  Call your friends.
[26:04.920 --> 26:05.480]  Have them call.
[26:07.280 --> 26:09.380]  212-209-2950.
[26:15.820 --> 26:17.340]  Okay, this is our code.
[26:18.200 --> 26:19.060]  Okay, we'll try that.
[26:24.820 --> 26:25.420]  What's ringing?
[26:25.820 --> 26:26.380]  What's ringing?
[26:27.600 --> 26:28.000]  Okay.
[26:28.620 --> 26:35.360]  Okay, someone donated another card to us that supposedly will allow us to call the 800 number, so we're going to try that.
[26:35.640 --> 26:36.160]  All right?
[26:38.600 --> 26:39.320]  All right.
[26:40.760 --> 26:47.340]  Yeah, please try to contain your enthusiasm because it's difficult to explain the sound of hundreds of people laughing.
[26:55.800 --> 26:57.780]  Please enter your card number.
[27:02.700 --> 27:04.060]  How come I am not hearing this?
[27:06.460 --> 27:07.460]  Actually, can we...
[27:07.460 --> 27:08.720]  Turn down the audio at this time?
[27:10.560 --> 27:14.360]  See, you're turning the audio up for the things we shouldn't be hearing and turning it down for the things we should.
[27:14.460 --> 27:14.920]  Okay, thank you.
[27:16.740 --> 27:17.480]  Okay, up now.
[27:20.020 --> 27:22.040]  That is an invalid card number.
[27:22.400 --> 27:24.220]  Please enter your card number.
[27:24.420 --> 27:25.280]  Okay, I'm going to try again.
[27:25.340 --> 27:26.400]  Maybe I took too long.
[27:28.200 --> 27:28.600]  No.
[27:31.570 --> 27:31.970]  Okay.
[27:34.410 --> 27:35.270]  Okay.
[27:35.270 --> 27:38.150]  Please enter the telephone number you wish to dial now.
[27:38.870 --> 27:39.570]  Okay.
[27:43.770 --> 27:49.210]  You have two hours, one minute for this call.
[27:53.580 --> 27:54.440]  Oh.
[27:56.260 --> 27:58.100]  You know what that means, right?
[27:58.820 --> 27:59.840]  That's busy circuits.
[28:00.000 --> 28:03.440]  That means they're getting so many calls that they can't even give us a busy signal.
[28:03.580 --> 28:03.720]  Oh, well.
[28:04.400 --> 28:04.620]  Okay.
[28:04.840 --> 28:06.340]  So much for AT&T, I think.
[28:07.020 --> 28:07.380]  Thanks.
[28:11.960 --> 28:12.880]  That's the same thing.
[28:13.140 --> 28:13.800]  The same thing, yeah.
[28:14.220 --> 28:15.480]  AT&T is unreachable.
[28:15.640 --> 28:18.720]  I have a feeling that operator read the memo, too, and she seemed awfully suspicious.
[28:19.400 --> 28:20.220]  Not to do that.
[28:20.560 --> 28:32.080]  The point of view from a directory assistance operator is we do not have access to any method of dialing a call anymore.
[28:32.760 --> 28:34.120]  The software comes up.
[28:34.240 --> 28:37.180]  It pops up telling us where you're calling from, where you're calling to.
[28:37.380 --> 28:41.140]  All we can do is feed you to Jane, the Jane Barbie recording, giving you the number.
[28:42.160 --> 28:47.980]  Jane can then give you the option of dialing that number, but we don't have that capability as directory assistance operators anymore.
[28:48.300 --> 28:52.480]  And that's what I do in my day job, is I'm a directory assistance operator, so that's the word.
[28:52.580 --> 28:52.980]  Sorry, guys.
[28:53.760 --> 28:54.220]  That's right.
[28:54.240 --> 28:55.120]  You actually do this.
[28:55.380 --> 28:58.260]  You actually play with the consoles and know what happens.
[28:58.300 --> 29:00.580]  What happens if you actually try to dial an 800 number?
[29:00.700 --> 29:02.020]  I mean, punching in the numbers.
[29:02.020 --> 29:02.800]  It just won't work?
[29:02.940 --> 29:04.760]  I don't have a field to enter that number into.
[29:05.840 --> 29:06.160]  Wow.
[29:06.160 --> 29:08.920]  Where I do have a field, I can enter numbers into.
[29:09.560 --> 29:12.120]  It just doesn't let me send calls anymore.
[29:12.940 --> 29:13.340]  Interesting.
[29:13.800 --> 29:17.220]  Okay, so basically, social engineering is lying.
[29:17.820 --> 29:24.600]  It's saying things to people that are not true and trying to get information from them that they're not supposed to give you because they believe you're somebody that you're not.
[29:26.060 --> 29:27.160]  It's really that simple.
[29:27.400 --> 29:28.280]  Anybody can do it.
[29:28.620 --> 29:30.860]  And I'm sure we all have at some points.
[29:30.900 --> 29:35.240]  Maybe members of the audience would like to share some of their experiences a little bit later on as well.
[29:36.540 --> 29:38.560]  I'd like to still try a couple of things.
[29:40.420 --> 29:44.040]  Well, I'd love to try Verizon, but they tend to close on Sundays.
[29:44.060 --> 29:44.640]  That's the problem.
[29:45.500 --> 29:47.580]  Why do we schedule these things for Sundays all the time?
[29:48.460 --> 29:49.740]  We should never talk about that.
[29:52.660 --> 29:53.460]  How about...
[29:53.460 --> 29:57.180]  Okay, the retail industry, as Alex said, is great.
[29:57.340 --> 30:03.540]  You can have all kinds of fun with people in retail, doing all kinds of things, telling you things you're not supposed to know.
[30:04.880 --> 30:07.560]  Does anybody have a favorite retail place?
[30:09.880 --> 30:11.300]  Okay, everyone has one apparently.
[30:11.480 --> 30:12.440]  Radio Shack would be great.
[30:15.600 --> 30:16.260]  All right.
[30:18.000 --> 30:19.200]  How about Starbucks?
[30:21.400 --> 30:22.100]  All right.
[30:24.160 --> 30:25.920]  I have the page open to Starbucks.
[30:25.920 --> 30:27.420]  I figure I'll give them a try.
[30:29.000 --> 30:29.700]  All right.
[30:30.180 --> 30:30.560]  Dial tone.
[30:33.660 --> 30:34.620]  Just doing two.
[30:35.340 --> 30:35.820]  Okay.
[30:38.720 --> 30:40.520]  I'll maybe turn that down a little bit.
[30:40.600 --> 30:40.840]  Thank you.
[30:42.740 --> 30:43.220]  Okay.
[30:43.280 --> 30:43.540]  Up now.
[30:58.890 --> 31:00.210]  Starbucks 92nd and 3rd.
[31:00.290 --> 31:00.550]  Can I help you?
[31:00.970 --> 31:01.450]  Yeah.
[31:01.530 --> 31:01.770]  Hi.
[31:01.770 --> 31:04.050]  This is Randy over at Network headquarters.
[31:04.590 --> 31:05.730]  What store number is this?
[31:06.610 --> 31:07.290]  Excuse me.
[31:07.370 --> 31:08.530]  It's 7407.
[31:08.890 --> 31:09.370]  7407.
[31:09.550 --> 31:09.730]  Okay.
[31:10.150 --> 31:12.490]  Did you report a problem with your wireless network?
[31:13.810 --> 31:14.690]  You know what?
[31:14.830 --> 31:15.810]  Hold on one second.
[31:15.810 --> 31:16.290]  Okay.
[31:16.430 --> 31:17.790]  I personally didn't put it.
[31:18.390 --> 31:18.790]  Thank you.
[31:41.020 --> 31:41.460]  Hello?
[31:41.940 --> 31:42.100]  Yeah.
[31:42.100 --> 31:43.820]  I believe the problem is actually with our modem.
[31:43.980 --> 31:48.280]  But the guy who was looking into it, I can give you him in one second.
[31:48.620 --> 31:48.920]  I'm sorry.
[31:49.000 --> 31:49.420]  Can you speak up?
[31:49.480 --> 31:50.240]  I'm having trouble with this phone.
[31:50.600 --> 31:51.000]  I'm sorry.
[31:51.680 --> 31:53.980]  I said I think it's more of our modem.
[31:54.760 --> 31:55.240]  Okay.
[31:55.460 --> 31:58.020]  Tell me what the problem is because we're on top of this.
[31:58.320 --> 32:06.900]  Well, personally last night I was trying to close the credit card batch and it kept resulting in a communication error.
[32:07.280 --> 32:08.680]  What was the communications error?
[32:08.800 --> 32:09.460]  What was the exact error?
[32:09.640 --> 32:09.800]  Do you know?
[32:09.920 --> 32:11.780]  I didn't exactly specify.
[32:11.960 --> 32:14.360]  Just said communication error and the batch wouldn't settle.
[32:15.100 --> 32:15.620]  Okay.
[32:15.700 --> 32:17.280]  So basically you have an unsettled batch?
[32:17.460 --> 32:17.900]  That's right.
[32:18.240 --> 32:18.500]  Okay.
[32:18.620 --> 32:19.660]  Now what's happening today?
[32:19.780 --> 32:21.020]  Are you able to process credit cards?
[32:21.680 --> 32:26.800]  Credit is going through, Starbucks cards are going through, you know, at the register stations.
[32:27.900 --> 32:28.420]  But...
[32:28.420 --> 32:29.580]  Are they authorizing?
[32:30.020 --> 32:30.540]  Yes.
[32:30.540 --> 32:31.760]  They are authorizing?
[32:31.940 --> 32:32.060]  Yes.
[32:32.400 --> 32:32.600]  Okay.
[32:33.200 --> 32:33.680]  How...
[32:33.680 --> 32:34.900]  Do you have a total on the batch?
[32:35.000 --> 32:36.240]  Is it getting...
[32:37.020 --> 32:39.320]  Is it getting huge or is this a crisis?
[32:40.140 --> 32:41.440]  Let me check this out for you.
[32:42.220 --> 32:47.220]  We're almost at $300 right now for credit cards, but that includes from last night.
[32:48.600 --> 32:49.080]  Okay.
[32:49.200 --> 32:50.460]  Do you know from what time last night?
[32:50.940 --> 32:51.740]  From last time.
[32:52.180 --> 32:53.760]  We closed at 11 o'clock.
[32:54.700 --> 32:55.180]  Okay.
[32:55.980 --> 32:57.560]  Now you're dialing out on...
[32:57.560 --> 32:59.640]  Have you contacted Verizon about this problem?
[33:00.080 --> 33:00.480]  Verizon?
[33:00.720 --> 33:01.500]  I don't believe so.
[33:01.800 --> 33:08.440]  But like I said, our store manager called about this, so I'm not sure what steps he took.
[33:09.040 --> 33:09.260]  All right.
[33:09.300 --> 33:09.880]  The problem...
[33:09.880 --> 33:14.860]  It's probably a communications protocol error of some sort, but we're trying to pin down.
[33:14.960 --> 33:17.340]  Do you know what part of the country you're dialing to?
[33:17.440 --> 33:20.560]  Is it the 800 number or is it something up in the Northwest?
[33:22.420 --> 33:24.820]  Do you have the number that the modem actually dials out to?
[33:25.800 --> 33:27.300]  No, I honestly don't.
[33:27.300 --> 33:28.980]  Is there any way I can find that?
[33:28.980 --> 33:29.000]  Yeah.
[33:29.560 --> 33:31.280]  Are you near the modem yourself right now?
[33:32.040 --> 33:32.860]  Yes, I am.
[33:33.140 --> 33:33.300]  Okay.
[33:33.780 --> 33:36.520]  If you could just read the numbers on the bottom of the modem, that would be helpful.
[33:37.220 --> 33:37.440]  Okay.
[33:38.100 --> 33:38.480]  Hang on.
[33:53.740 --> 33:55.140]  Are you looking...
[33:55.140 --> 33:56.710]  Which numbers are you looking for?
[33:57.420 --> 33:59.060]  Anything resembling a phone number.
[33:59.680 --> 34:00.080]  Okay.
[34:08.260 --> 34:10.720]  Or anything written in by hand would be good, too.
[34:26.520 --> 34:27.240]  You know what?
[34:27.340 --> 34:29.120]  I don't have either one.
[34:30.160 --> 34:31.420]  Well, what kind of modem is it?
[34:31.560 --> 34:31.880]  Do you...
[34:31.880 --> 34:32.480]  U.S.
[34:32.660 --> 34:33.060]  Robotics.
[34:33.160 --> 34:33.380]  U.S.
[34:33.460 --> 34:33.840]  Robotics?
[34:34.860 --> 34:35.260]  56K.
[34:36.060 --> 34:37.400]  It's a 56K modem.
[34:37.540 --> 34:37.700]  Okay.
[34:37.780 --> 34:38.680]  That could be part of the problem.
[34:38.820 --> 34:43.740]  I know we've been having some handshake problems with 56K in our headquarters.
[34:46.820 --> 34:47.260]  Okay.
[34:48.840 --> 34:49.280]  What's...
[34:49.280 --> 34:55.100]  Do you have a listing of when the batch began, the exact time that would help?
[34:56.960 --> 34:57.320]  Uh...
[34:57.320 --> 34:57.660]  Sure.
[34:57.820 --> 34:57.880]  Let me...
[34:57.880 --> 35:00.180]  In fact, if you had that first transaction, that would really help.
[35:00.360 --> 35:00.620]  Uh...
[35:00.620 --> 35:01.720]  From today or from yesterday?
[35:01.840 --> 35:02.320]  From yesterday.
[35:03.480 --> 35:03.840]  Uh...
[35:03.840 --> 35:04.980]  Because that's when the problem began.
[35:21.120 --> 35:22.330]  Hold on one second here.
[35:25.500 --> 35:27.620]  I'm gonna have to call up the report for a minute.
[35:30.900 --> 35:32.160]  Could you give me just...
[35:32.160 --> 35:32.720]  Just a minute?
[35:33.200 --> 35:34.040]  I'm sorry, speak up?
[35:34.220 --> 35:35.520]  Could you give me just a minute on...
[35:35.520 --> 35:35.740]  Yeah.
[35:35.980 --> 35:36.200]  All right.
[35:38.920 --> 35:42.400]  You're listening to a rebroadcast of the Social Engineering Panel from H2K2.
[35:42.400 --> 35:46.660]  Broadcast here on Off the Hook, an expanded edition here on WBAI New York.
[35:46.840 --> 35:53.840]  We're currently demonstrating the ease of social engineering against our Starbucks as it was done live back in July 2002.
[35:54.180 --> 36:01.900]  This videotape, along with others, can be yours by calling us, 212-209-2950, pledging your support to the radio station.
[36:02.360 --> 36:06.400]  And we have many other things for you to have as well.
[36:06.540 --> 36:09.640]  Please give us a call, 212-209-2950.
[36:13.530 --> 36:15.310]  Yeah, we'll get all the numbers.
[36:16.970 --> 36:17.530]  Sure.
[36:47.300 --> 36:56.540]  See, the thing with social engineering, you have to be patient sometimes, and sometimes it takes time to get information from people, and there's long caps of silence.
[37:01.100 --> 37:01.940]  Okay.
[37:02.120 --> 37:02.280]  Okay.
[37:03.280 --> 37:03.920]  Yeah.
[37:04.300 --> 37:15.260]  The first one from yesterday was an American Express transaction for 3.57, and the time was at 7.09.52.
[37:17.000 --> 37:19.160]  Was that $3.57?
[37:19.640 --> 37:20.160]  That's right.
[37:21.420 --> 37:21.720]  Okay.
[37:23.340 --> 37:26.340]  American Express, was that American Express Optima, American Express...
[37:26.940 --> 37:28.200]  Do you have the number there?
[37:28.760 --> 37:32.320]  I actually do not.
[37:32.480 --> 37:33.520]  Let me get the...
[37:36.100 --> 37:38.000]  That would help us track when the problem begins.
[37:38.200 --> 37:40.340]  If there are any attempts into...
[37:40.340 --> 37:41.360]  Oh, hang on a second.
[37:41.500 --> 37:41.620]  Yeah.
[37:41.760 --> 37:42.860]  I'm going to have to get the report.
[37:43.180 --> 37:43.460]  Okay.
[37:43.600 --> 37:44.340]  In a different place.
[37:47.920 --> 37:49.880]  If you have the name on the card too, that might help.
[37:50.540 --> 37:51.060]  Okay.
[37:56.000 --> 37:56.520]  Okay.
[37:56.520 --> 38:01.780]  The very first one...
[38:01.780 --> 38:02.000]  Yeah.
[38:04.400 --> 38:04.920]  For...
[38:04.920 --> 38:12.860]  The account number is 371-332-590.
[38:12.900 --> 38:13.200]  Okay.
[38:13.400 --> 38:14.400]  I think I have it.
[38:14.760 --> 38:15.900]  I do see something.
[38:16.100 --> 38:16.620]  What...
[38:16.620 --> 38:17.540]  Do you have a name on that?
[38:17.540 --> 38:18.300]  No.
[38:18.760 --> 38:19.940]  But I have an expiration date.
[38:20.060 --> 38:20.260]  Okay.
[38:20.280 --> 38:21.040]  What's the expiration date?
[38:21.180 --> 38:23.360]  It's 1-0-0-3.
[38:23.660 --> 38:24.920]  1-0-0-3.
[38:25.720 --> 38:26.120]  Okay.
[38:26.200 --> 38:26.720]  And what's your name again?
[38:26.900 --> 38:27.540]  My name's Sean.
[38:27.720 --> 38:28.100]  Sean.
[38:28.360 --> 38:31.360]  Sean, we'll give you a call back and tell you how this worked out.
[38:31.440 --> 38:32.980]  We're going to try and work things out on this end.
[38:33.180 --> 38:36.400]  But if anyone else calls about this, just refer them...
[38:36.400 --> 38:40.780]  Just tell them that we'll get back to you in about an hour or so.
[38:41.000 --> 38:41.380]  Okay.
[38:41.700 --> 38:42.140]  Thank you.
[38:42.360 --> 38:42.620]  All right.
[38:42.620 --> 38:43.220]  Have a good day.
[38:52.340 --> 38:53.020]  Good save.
[39:06.210 --> 39:08.200]  That's the first one we picked, too.
[39:08.340 --> 39:09.000]  The first Starbucks.
[39:10.550 --> 39:10.920]  Well...
[39:11.590 --> 39:11.960]  Boy.
[39:12.680 --> 39:19.700]  Now, imagine, you know, there's retail outlets everywhere and people like that on the phone everywhere that will just give out information to anybody asking for it.
[39:19.760 --> 39:21.960]  I mean, I was making things up on the fly.
[39:22.140 --> 39:22.680]  Network headquarters.
[39:22.780 --> 39:23.640]  I didn't even get the name right.
[39:23.860 --> 39:25.090]  I don't know where I am.
[39:25.660 --> 39:32.280]  Imagine if I had sat down, figured it all out, come up with a name, come up with a callback phone number, come up with a place, you know, that actually exists.
[39:33.590 --> 39:35.780]  You know, I could have gotten all kinds of information.
[39:35.780 --> 39:37.620]  You can get people to turn things off.
[39:37.620 --> 39:39.320]  You know, it's possible.
[39:40.360 --> 39:43.980]  You know, if you're really good at this kind of thing, you can have them closed down for the day, you know?
[39:46.160 --> 39:47.480]  We have a data problem.
[39:53.180 --> 39:56.480]  But, you know, if you're into social engineering...
[39:59.000 --> 40:00.260]  Low-frequency noises.
[40:01.960 --> 40:09.200]  Basically, my philosophy is that you do it for fun or you do it for information, but you don't do it to, you know, to cause unnecessary mayhem.
[40:10.340 --> 40:19.800]  And, you know, for instance, years ago, I used a Roam phone system on a college campus and they had a great feature known as Star 8.
[40:19.940 --> 40:22.000]  I don't know if anybody's ever used a Roam CBX.
[40:22.840 --> 40:24.740]  Star 8 opens a speaker on any phone.
[40:24.860 --> 40:25.620]  It's really kind of cool.
[40:27.180 --> 40:32.700]  You basically dial Star 8, then the extension, and the phone goes boop, and you're on their speaker.
[40:33.020 --> 40:42.780]  Well, imagine, you know, computer sync labs were basically sync sites where people are all working on, you know, their programs or reports or whatever.
[40:43.240 --> 40:47.840]  And there's, you know, a guy in the front sitting there making sure that people go in, have ID and that kind of thing.
[40:47.960 --> 40:48.660]  He's got a phone there.
[40:49.160 --> 40:53.060]  Well, imagine that phone going boop, attention, their computer center will be closing in 10 minutes.
[40:53.880 --> 40:55.440]  There's nothing he can do about it.
[40:55.500 --> 40:57.880]  And especially if you have somebody there telling you what he looks like.
[40:58.000 --> 40:59.640]  He said, don't pay attention to the guy in the red shirt.
[40:59.640 --> 41:00.700]  He doesn't even work here.
[41:05.040 --> 41:09.360]  You can have all kinds of fun just by, you know, figuring out how systems work and things like that.
[41:10.180 --> 41:10.640]  I don't know.
[41:10.680 --> 41:11.440]  You guys might tell stories.
[41:11.540 --> 41:13.220]  I'll try to find something else here, maybe.
[41:15.600 --> 41:16.540]  Do I have a mic?
[41:16.720 --> 41:17.260]  I guess so.
[41:17.740 --> 41:22.580]  I remember back at the first Hope, back in 94, eight years ago.
[41:22.920 --> 41:25.680]  Did anybody ever play with Encore Telephone?
[41:27.120 --> 41:33.860]  Yeah, they were, I think it was a prerequisite to have an IQ under 60 in order to get a job at Encore.
[41:34.060 --> 41:37.020]  I mean, these were some of the dumbest people you'll ever meet in your entire life.
[41:37.400 --> 41:39.100]  No offense if anybody's from Encore.
[41:41.260 --> 41:49.780]  But all you needed to do to verify that you were an Encore employee was to have their password, which changed every season just about.
[41:49.880 --> 41:56.320]  And I remember, I believe that the password during the H2, Hope, the first Hope, which was during the summer, was summer.
[41:56.680 --> 41:59.040]  And then it changed to Autumn the next season.
[42:00.540 --> 42:02.640]  At one point it changed to Couch, I remember.
[42:02.720 --> 42:08.920]  But the best way to get the password from them was to just pretend that you were an Encore operator and that somehow your lines got crossed.
[42:08.920 --> 42:10.680]  And so they'd say, Hello, Encore, can I help you?
[42:10.720 --> 42:12.120]  And you say, Hello, Encore, can I help you?
[42:13.100 --> 42:16.540]  And then you'd say to them, Uh-oh, I think we got a cross-talk on the line.
[42:16.660 --> 42:17.860]  We're going to have to trouble code this.
[42:18.660 --> 42:20.680]  And you said, What trouble code should I make this?
[42:20.760 --> 42:21.560]  And you said, Oh, this and that.
[42:21.680 --> 42:22.340]  I said, Oh, I'm sorry.
[42:22.420 --> 42:24.860]  I need the Encore password to verify you're really from Encore.
[42:28.160 --> 42:37.260]  And then you'd have the password and it was ridiculous.
[42:37.260 --> 42:44.580]  So we used to call up Encore and say, very similar to what Emanuel did, and say, you know, we're from Network Operations Center.
[42:45.120 --> 42:46.940]  Oh, I'm sorry, the password is summer.
[42:47.220 --> 42:48.040]  Let me verify myself.
[42:48.460 --> 42:52.080]  And we used to figure out what every key on their keyboard did.
[42:52.120 --> 42:54.140]  So we knew just about all their commands.
[42:54.280 --> 42:58.860]  What we'd like to do best was say, all right, we've heard, we just made crap up.
[42:59.020 --> 43:02.560]  Like, your hard drive isn't cross-linked to the fiber optic network properly.
[43:04.400 --> 43:06.940]  And we think you're getting a lot of ID10T errors.
[43:07.180 --> 43:09.380]  You know, if you spell that out, it spells idiot.
[43:11.640 --> 43:14.320]  So we used to tell them, we need you to do something as soon as possible.
[43:14.420 --> 43:17.420]  Can you hold the control key, the alt key, and then hit the delete key?
[43:19.480 --> 43:20.960]  Now, what does your screen say?
[43:21.160 --> 43:23.080]  Oh, it's counting some memory or something.
[43:23.820 --> 43:24.900]  What does it go up to?
[43:25.720 --> 43:26.900]  Oh, 4,000.
[43:27.060 --> 43:27.800]  Oh, my God.
[43:27.960 --> 43:31.080]  All right, you got a big problem.
[43:31.080 --> 43:37.520]  I need to disconnect your keyboard, wrap it up quickly, and start waving it until your supervisor comes over.
[43:42.850 --> 43:45.570]  Okay, that's about all the time we're going to have for that.
[43:45.570 --> 43:47.110]  But that was a lot of fun.
[43:47.410 --> 43:47.750]  It was.
[43:47.910 --> 43:48.630]  Jeff, were you there for that one?
[43:48.790 --> 43:50.470]  I was there taking pictures.
[43:50.730 --> 43:55.470]  And I think that the actual call that you made after that was my favorite of the day to the restaurant.
[43:55.730 --> 43:56.370]  Yeah, yeah.
[43:56.370 --> 43:58.510]  That was actually closing a week after.
[43:58.510 --> 44:00.190]  Well, we went out of business right after that.
[44:00.290 --> 44:01.270]  I hope that wasn't related.
[44:02.130 --> 44:07.410]  But, yeah, that's always a lot of fun at the conferences, the social engineering panel.
[44:07.810 --> 44:09.990]  But it's only one, one of many.
[44:10.270 --> 44:14.410]  Oh, boy, there are so many panels here at the conference that we taped.
[44:14.610 --> 44:20.970]  Abuse of authority, access control devices, the argument against security through obscurity for the non-digital world.
[44:21.070 --> 44:22.630]  No, those are only the A's, you know?
[44:23.150 --> 44:28.070]  Let's look at the C's, caller ID, spoofing, conspiracies, the conscience of a hacker, crypto for the masses.
[44:29.830 --> 44:32.870]  There are so many here, and you can get them.
[44:33.050 --> 44:34.330]  You get the keynote speaker as well, don't you?
[44:34.350 --> 44:37.730]  The keynote speaker, Aaron McGruder, and Jello Biafra is in there.
[44:38.150 --> 44:39.250]  We have all kinds of things.
[44:39.330 --> 44:44.010]  What we'll do is take your phone call, 212-209-2950 for a pledge of $75.
[44:44.010 --> 44:58.230]  You get three hours, and we will contact you at a later date, once your check clears or credit card or whatever, and get the three that you want and have those sent to you in VCD format, which will play on your DVD player, it will play on your computer,
[44:58.430 --> 45:01.390]  and it's really cool.
[45:01.490 --> 45:02.110]  It really is something.
[45:02.710 --> 45:06.330]  Listening to it on the radio, that's only one side of it.
[45:06.350 --> 45:12.670]  Seeing the expressions, seeing what people are doing, seeing the actual demonstrations, for instance, of the lockpicking seminar that we had as well.
[45:13.050 --> 45:17.990]  All of that is essential to have video of, and that's why we're offering that for a pledge of $75.
[45:18.350 --> 45:19.850]  212-209-2950.
[45:19.850 --> 45:20.950]  We have one call on the line.
[45:21.050 --> 45:22.970]  We're up to almost $1,500, which is great.
[45:23.530 --> 45:27.670]  But we need more calls, we need more people, and we need more support to keep this going.
[45:27.850 --> 45:35.490]  For a pledge of $125, we have the hooded sweatshirt, the brand new 2600 hooded sweatshirt, not yet available to the public.
[45:35.490 --> 45:41.590]  And in addition to that, you'll get three hours of H2K2 video.
[45:42.350 --> 45:53.890]  And in addition to that, everybody who pledges over $25 will receive an off-the-hook t-shirt, which I'm wearing right now, and it's quite comfortable, I'll say that.
[45:54.710 --> 45:56.490]  212-209-2950.
[45:56.490 --> 46:02.870]  So most importantly, though, please show your support to the radio station because it's vital to keep this place going.
[46:02.870 --> 46:06.010]  It's vital to have a forum where we can talk about things like this.
[46:06.150 --> 46:07.830]  You may have never heard anything like that before.
[46:07.830 --> 46:16.210]  You may have never heard a group of people making phone calls and trying to get information and sharing methods and telling stories and things like that.
[46:16.210 --> 46:17.830]  And that's what the hacker world is all about.
[46:18.030 --> 46:26.070]  We don't just always talk about serious subjects such as the shrinking freedoms that we have in our country and various other technical aspects.
[46:26.310 --> 46:28.090]  Sometimes we just sit down and have fun.
[46:28.870 --> 46:35.950]  And there's no better way to see that for yourself than to witness what went on at the last conference back here in New York 2002.
[46:35.950 --> 46:38.770]  212-209-2950.
[46:38.770 --> 46:41.330]  Bernie, any reflections from you?
[46:41.950 --> 46:43.650]  It's just like a big flashback, Emmanuel.
[46:43.810 --> 46:47.730]  There was so much good information at that conference that was going around.
[46:49.690 --> 46:53.190]  Just three days of nonstop information overload.
[46:53.550 --> 46:56.970]  And it was very entertaining, very stimulating.
[46:57.250 --> 47:03.330]  And I don't think anybody came away from that conference feeling like they didn't get a lot out of it.
[47:03.330 --> 47:08.630]  Yeah, including a lot of the speakers, a lot of the people who had no idea what hackers were all about who had come to speak at the conference.
[47:08.690 --> 47:16.290]  They saw a few of the panels and they were just overwhelmed with the kinds of things that were being discussed and talked about.
[47:17.570 --> 47:20.070]  Journalists, people who usually get it wrong.
[47:20.070 --> 47:25.170]  I think they got into the spirit of it all and they realized that hackers aren't the bad guys here.
[47:25.210 --> 47:29.290]  Hackers are the ones that are playing around with systems, figuring things out, telling people about weaknesses.
[47:31.190 --> 47:32.410]  And it's just really cool.
[47:32.410 --> 47:35.330]  If you couldn't make it to the conference, this is the next best thing.
[47:35.370 --> 47:38.450]  And if you did make it to the conference, it's great to be able to remember it this way.
[47:38.810 --> 47:40.530]  Or catch up on the things you missed.
[47:40.650 --> 47:41.090]  Yeah, that's right.
[47:41.090 --> 47:43.170]  You can't be in two or three places at once.
[47:43.270 --> 47:50.730]  I mean, just to give you an idea of how much there was, it's taken us this long just to get to the point where we can get it onto a video format where people can look at it.
[47:50.730 --> 47:52.010]  There's so much material here.
[47:52.090 --> 47:53.610]  There's so much that happened.
[47:53.950 --> 47:56.290]  And it takes a long time to get it all together.
[47:56.290 --> 48:01.810]  And then, you know, you need good people sitting down and figuring out how to do it once and for all and finishing it.
[48:02.710 --> 48:04.310]  212-209-2950.
[48:04.510 --> 48:13.030]  And hopefully, many of you will be able to share in that experience because we do want it to get out there to as many people as possible.
[48:13.030 --> 48:18.750]  What we're doing is we're donating the videos to the radio station in an effort to raise money.
[48:18.870 --> 48:20.370]  And that's what it's all about.
[48:21.510 --> 48:23.170]  212-209-2950.
[48:23.370 --> 48:27.350]  We are not profiting from the videos, the shirts, or anything else.
[48:27.930 --> 48:29.950]  All this is a donation from us.
[48:30.050 --> 48:37.210]  So if 1,000 people were to call right now and demand a social engineering video, we'd have to come up with 1,000 of those and give it to the radio station.
[48:37.230 --> 48:37.890]  That's how it works.
[48:37.970 --> 48:46.750]  So if you really want to hurt us, you know, drive us out of business, call 1,000 of your closest friends, get them all to call up at once, and, you know, we'll be forced to donate everything that we said we were going to give.
[48:46.910 --> 48:47.490]  But you know what?
[48:47.710 --> 48:49.270]  We'll go out of business with a smile.
[48:49.850 --> 48:54.130]  Because it's, you know, supporting the radio station is what's really important here.
[48:55.070 --> 48:56.590]  And that's why we're here today.
[48:56.670 --> 48:58.670]  That's why we're doing three hours of this program.
[48:58.810 --> 48:59.150]  That's right.
[48:59.230 --> 48:59.670]  Three hours.
[48:59.810 --> 49:00.730]  We're on until 10 o'clock.
[49:01.630 --> 49:03.710]  And we really want to see your support.
[49:03.850 --> 49:05.370]  We have three phone calls on the line.
[49:10.590 --> 49:17.530]  It exists solely through the calls that people make in times like this to keep the radio station on the air.
[49:17.630 --> 49:18.910]  We don't get underwriting.
[49:19.070 --> 49:21.950]  You haven't heard any announcements from Microsoft or Intel, have you?
[49:22.290 --> 49:23.210]  I don't think so.
[49:23.410 --> 49:24.970]  We can say Microsoft sucks.
[49:25.110 --> 49:26.190]  We can say Intel sucks.
[49:26.270 --> 49:27.190]  We can say Pepsi sucks.
[49:27.270 --> 49:28.790]  We can say the United States government sucks.
[49:28.850 --> 49:30.230]  We can say all kinds of things like that.
[49:30.350 --> 49:31.890]  Or we can say, you know, they're all great.
[49:31.890 --> 49:35.310]  We can say what we want because it's all about opinions.
[49:35.310 --> 49:37.850]  It's all about presenting things in alternative ways.
[49:38.030 --> 49:44.550]  We open the phone lines up for listeners week after week where you can call in and voice your opinions, tell your stories, tell your stories of injustice.
[49:44.890 --> 49:50.370]  We have letters that we get constantly from people who mail us telling us things that have happened to them.
[49:50.490 --> 49:53.110]  We share that information over the airwaves.
[49:53.750 --> 50:04.270]  And, Bernie, first-hand, you've had experience where your message when you were in trouble years ago got out to thousands and thousands of people, and it really did make a difference, didn't it?
[50:04.610 --> 50:05.710]  It made a huge difference.
[50:05.890 --> 50:11.710]  And I know I'm not the only person who's had this show make a big difference in their life personally.
[50:11.950 --> 50:16.770]  So it's a really well-worthwhile project to support.
[50:17.050 --> 50:21.790]  And it's been ongoing for years, and I think it's going to continue to do a lot of good.
[50:22.410 --> 50:26.870]  Don't let economic realities, you know, ruin everything for everybody.
[50:26.870 --> 50:29.570]  Because when you think about it enough, you get really depressed, you know?
[50:29.690 --> 50:33.650]  And you realize, hey, you know, I can't afford to do this, so I'm just not going to do it anymore.
[50:33.710 --> 50:35.410]  And this station doesn't make any sense.
[50:35.410 --> 50:37.770]  It can't possibly survive in the middle of the FM dial.
[50:38.010 --> 50:40.410]  So let's just let a commercial station take it over.
[50:40.610 --> 50:43.610]  You know, there still isn't a country music station in New York City.
[50:44.150 --> 50:46.910]  How would you like it if you turned on 99.5 in one day?
[50:47.350 --> 50:48.590]  Yeah, it could happen.
[50:48.590 --> 50:51.270]  I mean, you know, we're not going to give up without a fight.
[50:51.870 --> 50:56.670]  But, you know, the economic realities could kick in and make it so that it's impossible.
[50:57.070 --> 50:58.290]  It could happen.
[50:58.430 --> 50:59.570]  Imagine if there was no support.
[50:59.830 --> 51:03.990]  Imagine if those calls on the line now all winked out and were not replaced by anyone else.
[51:04.750 --> 51:05.990]  How would we survive?
[51:06.390 --> 51:06.910]  You know?
[51:07.130 --> 51:08.430]  We have no commercials.
[51:10.690 --> 51:15.850]  We have no way of raising funds from the programming in that manner.
[51:16.030 --> 51:19.630]  And many radio stations make a killing doing this.
[51:19.850 --> 51:20.570]  They really do.
[51:20.710 --> 51:23.850]  I mean, radio is a money-making industry.
[51:24.050 --> 51:25.530]  But here, it's different.
[51:25.770 --> 51:27.430]  This is a different kind of radio station.
[51:27.430 --> 51:30.250]  So we're not raising the money to pay ourselves.
[51:30.450 --> 51:38.350]  We're not raising the money to, you know, basically make everything glittery like it is at those other stations that employ, like, three people and ten computers.
[51:39.990 --> 51:51.930]  We're using it to keep the equipment working, to keep the phones intact, and to make sure that the signal continues to broadcast off the Empire State Building, 50,000 watts.
[51:51.930 --> 51:54.370]  That's 212-209-2950.
[51:54.730 --> 51:57.370]  And that's why your support is so essential.
[51:58.230 --> 51:59.250]  Do you have more people to think?
[51:59.410 --> 52:02.810]  I've got a couple that are left over from the last group.
[52:03.070 --> 52:07.830]  I believe this is Janos from Fort Jefferson Station in New York.
[52:07.890 --> 52:08.310]  Oh, wow.
[52:08.370 --> 52:08.930]  I know it well.
[52:09.150 --> 52:10.350]  That's a great area.
[52:12.970 --> 52:16.490]  And we've got a Michelle from Tarrytown, New York.
[52:16.690 --> 52:18.590]  And even a little comment down here on the bottom.
[52:18.710 --> 52:19.570]  Love the show.
[52:19.770 --> 52:20.530]  Well, that's great.
[52:20.530 --> 52:21.150]  That's great.
[52:21.290 --> 52:23.130]  Even if you only like the show, give us a call.
[52:23.330 --> 52:35.830]  And you know what's really encouraging is the fact that these people are pledging for premiums like the t-shirt, and they're pledging more money than is required to get the t-shirt.
[52:36.230 --> 52:36.890]  That's great.
[52:37.070 --> 52:37.650]  That is refreshing.
[52:37.790 --> 52:45.010]  That shows you something about BAI's spirit when people give even more, even more than the bare minimum to get something.
[52:45.290 --> 52:47.890]  Because it's not the something that you're pledging for.
[52:47.890 --> 52:52.810]  I mean, you know, we offer that as an incentive, but what you're pledging for is the radio station.
[52:52.870 --> 52:56.470]  So if the radio station is really important to you, pledge whatever you feel reflects that.
[52:56.470 --> 52:58.650]  You know, it does matter.
[52:58.730 --> 53:04.550]  A couple of years ago, when this place was in danger of being wiped off the face of the earth, yeah, it really did happen.
[53:04.670 --> 53:05.630]  It really did happen.
[53:05.770 --> 53:06.850]  And it could happen again.
[53:07.130 --> 53:10.330]  But when that was occurring, we saw people come out.
[53:10.330 --> 53:19.930]  We saw people come out of the woodwork and, you know, do whatever it took to keep the place from falling into the wrong hands, from just being destroyed.
[53:20.190 --> 53:21.170]  And they won.
[53:21.350 --> 53:23.270]  They won because they had that spirit.
[53:23.550 --> 53:27.430]  And that's what we need now in the way of raising funds.
[53:27.930 --> 53:30.390]  Calling up 212-209-2950.
[53:30.970 --> 53:34.110]  So, and again, we're on until 10 o'clock tonight.
[53:34.290 --> 53:35.490]  It's currently 8.53.
[53:35.510 --> 53:37.930]  We have all kinds of other things to talk about and bring you.
[53:38.110 --> 53:41.170]  We could easily do a three-hour show every week without doing fundraising.
[53:41.170 --> 53:42.530]  That's how much material we have.
[53:43.610 --> 53:47.990]  But that wouldn't be fair to all the other people who are out there who have different programs.
[53:48.190 --> 53:50.650]  And that's, you know, that's the nature of this radio station.
[53:50.670 --> 53:57.030]  You have hundreds and hundreds of different kinds of voices throughout the course of a week that talk about all kinds of different issues.
[53:57.030 --> 53:57.950]  And you learn.
[53:58.050 --> 54:00.510]  You learn so much by listening to other programs as well.
[54:00.590 --> 54:03.910]  And that's why I encourage people to keep that dial set to 99.5.
[54:04.210 --> 54:08.790]  And hopefully we'll figure out ways to keep the internet signal going.
[54:08.890 --> 54:10.130]  We were talking about this earlier.
[54:11.150 --> 54:14.770]  We're facing from Live 365 a cutoff next week.
[54:15.430 --> 54:19.190]  And that might cut down our signal by half on the internet.
[54:20.010 --> 54:21.830]  Right now, we're putting our heads together.
[54:21.830 --> 54:23.090]  We're trying to figure out ways.
[54:23.090 --> 54:27.250]  People actually around here are actually donating more bandwidth.
[54:28.470 --> 54:32.710]  It's amazing the spirit that you get of contribution.
[54:33.590 --> 54:43.050]  We never would have gotten to this stage as it is right now if people weren't willing, such as yourself, to donate time, equipment, and effort just to keep it working.
[54:43.370 --> 54:46.270]  And it's a microcosm of what the radio station is all about.
[54:46.270 --> 54:56.070]  You know, the signal gets out to people in all kinds of different ways, whether it's over the air or whether it's through wires on the internet or, you know, word of mouth, whatever.
[54:56.330 --> 54:57.330]  It all takes effort.
[54:58.750 --> 55:01.050]  Now, I'm sure there are people out there who want to help out.
[55:01.130 --> 55:02.470]  What's the best way for them to reach us?
[55:02.470 --> 55:07.590]  Well, they can email OTH at 2600.com or you can email me directly.
[55:07.870 --> 55:11.590]  It's Junts, J-U-I-N-T-Z at 2600.com.
[55:12.050 --> 55:17.370]  If you have anything to offer, you know, servers, bandwidth, anything would be great.
[55:17.530 --> 55:21.910]  We're really facing a serious crunch because, like I said, Live 365 took a...
[55:21.910 --> 55:26.890]  It made us feel a lot safer because we knew, no matter what, we could always dump people to that and it would be fine.
[55:27.070 --> 55:28.050]  And we're losing that.
[55:28.290 --> 55:31.030]  So, you know, two, three hundred connections tops and that's it.
[55:31.030 --> 55:32.870]  See, I know something's going to happen.
[55:33.010 --> 55:36.950]  I don't want to sound like, you know, one of those religious people on TV, but I know someone out there...
[55:36.950 --> 55:37.350]  Well, that's what happens when it's closed.
[55:37.350 --> 55:45.610]  Someone out there is going to come through for us and keep it going so that we don't lose all the listeners that listen to us over the internet.
[55:45.750 --> 55:49.730]  And they've turned into a lot of people, you know, over the last couple of years, you know.
[55:50.250 --> 55:52.970]  Internet radio is still pretty much in its infancy.
[55:53.490 --> 55:57.990]  But when it first started out, we're talking like a handful of people on most radio stations.
[55:57.990 --> 56:04.410]  In fact, I'm convinced to this day that, you know, commercial radio stations only get, you know, a handful, literally, of listeners.
[56:04.410 --> 56:09.950]  Why would somebody want to listen to a commercial radio station in a different city when it sounds exactly the same as the one that's in your city?
[56:10.390 --> 56:10.750]  Right.
[56:10.810 --> 56:12.290]  It's the same thing over and over and over.
[56:12.530 --> 56:12.790]  It's the same.
[56:12.870 --> 56:13.690]  Same songs.
[56:14.250 --> 56:15.670]  The commercials are a little different.
[56:16.050 --> 56:19.130]  Do you really care enough to listen to foreign commercials in a different city?
[56:19.210 --> 56:20.230]  I mean, no, I don't think so.
[56:20.570 --> 56:25.050]  So a station like WBAI, though, you won't hear a station like that someplace else.
[56:25.190 --> 56:27.530]  Bernie in Philadelphia, can you turn on your radio and hear WBAI?
[56:28.850 --> 56:29.930]  Unfortunately, I can't.
[56:29.930 --> 56:36.490]  No, you can't because you'll get some like soft rock or something at 99.5 down there coming out of Delaware, I think.
[56:36.970 --> 56:41.730]  If you're up in Albany, you'll get modern music or 70s hits or something like that.
[56:41.750 --> 56:43.150]  If you're in Boston, you get country music.
[56:43.270 --> 56:45.330]  Yeah, they have country music at 99.5 in Boston.
[56:45.370 --> 56:48.650]  I know about that because they interfere with us sometimes on Eastern Long Island.
[56:49.390 --> 56:51.710]  So, yeah, it's very difficult.
[56:51.710 --> 56:56.230]  You'll hear commercial college radio stations sometimes that provide all kinds of alternatives.
[56:56.230 --> 56:57.690]  But they're not 50,000 watts.
[56:57.830 --> 56:58.790]  They're not in the middle of New York City.
[56:59.090 --> 57:01.250]  They won't reach this kind of audience.
[57:01.590 --> 57:07.770]  And they don't have the kind of resources of being able to cover world events like WBAI has.
[57:07.890 --> 57:09.510]  WBAI is instrumental in that.
[57:09.790 --> 57:12.790]  And we've been around since 1960, making history.
[57:12.950 --> 57:18.750]  So we're asking you to keep that going so that we can be around for another, what is it, 43 years.
[57:19.690 --> 57:21.450]  212-209-2950.
[57:22.230 --> 57:25.090]  Listeners have gotten us to that stage as it is.
[57:25.210 --> 57:28.470]  And we need to continue along those lines.
[57:29.470 --> 57:31.010]  212-209-2950.
[57:31.250 --> 57:32.470]  Two calls on the line.
[57:33.150 --> 57:33.610]  And...
[57:33.610 --> 57:34.570]  I mean, we've got a question.
[57:34.710 --> 57:34.850]  Yes.
[57:34.850 --> 57:36.430]  What sizes are the sweatshirts?
[57:36.730 --> 57:37.090]  Ah.
[57:37.190 --> 57:40.550]  Well, the sweatshirts actually are, I believe, XL and L.
[57:41.070 --> 57:43.150]  And we might have some XXLs as well.
[57:43.910 --> 57:46.450]  That's something you can indicate when you call in.
[57:46.590 --> 57:50.210]  Or we can call you and get that information later if it's not indicated.
[57:50.430 --> 57:53.690]  So don't panic if you didn't get that information out.
[57:54.250 --> 57:56.010]  We'll get it one way or another.
[57:56.410 --> 57:59.190]  212-209-2950.
[58:00.230 --> 58:10.790]  Also, since we already had the social engineering panel, I decided to mention that at the end, Hope, at their social engineering panel, which was about six, almost seven years ago.
[58:10.930 --> 58:11.410]  1997.
[58:12.070 --> 58:12.550]  Yeah.
[58:12.870 --> 58:14.290]  In the summer of 97.
[58:14.970 --> 58:16.510]  They called Kmart...
[58:16.510 --> 58:18.270]  Actually, it was August of 1997, not December.
[58:18.990 --> 58:20.090]  I said December?
[58:20.370 --> 58:21.290]  Oh, it doesn't matter anymore.
[58:22.690 --> 58:30.510]  At the social engineering panel, they called Kmart and for them to be another Kmart just to get on the PA system.
[58:31.030 --> 58:38.690]  Now, just for you who want to try this out, an easier way to get onto a PA system of a major department store is to just call them up.
[58:38.690 --> 58:47.130]  And what happens is that people inside the store don't know most of the time if you're calling from inside the store or from outside of the store.
[58:47.230 --> 58:51.270]  And so they automatically assume that you're an employee if you sound like an employee.
[58:51.270 --> 58:55.050]  So what you do is you basically call them up and say, can you connect me to the PA system?
[58:55.830 --> 58:56.470]  And that's it.
[58:56.610 --> 58:57.010]  They will...
[58:57.010 --> 59:01.870]  Well, you know, I don't think it's that easy because I don't think people are going to need to be connected to the PA system.
[59:01.930 --> 59:03.230]  They're going to know how to do it themselves.
[59:03.230 --> 59:06.150]  Like in Home Depot, for instance, every employee knows how to do that.
[59:06.390 --> 59:07.330]  That's what I thought.
[59:07.490 --> 59:10.970]  But it worked on every single store that I called, which is about four or five.
[59:11.590 --> 59:11.970]  All right.
[59:12.110 --> 59:19.490]  Well, another thing, though, is to watch employees in Home Depot or other places when they get on the PA system, which is a lot, and see what they dial.
[59:19.650 --> 59:20.550]  And those phones are everywhere.
[59:20.790 --> 59:22.550]  But I'm not saying people should do that.
[59:22.650 --> 59:28.250]  I'm just saying, you know, sometimes when you need customer assistance and there's no representatives around, sometimes you have to take matters into your own hands.
[59:30.190 --> 59:31.570]  But it's all about education.
[59:31.570 --> 59:35.150]  It's all about spreading information and learning how it all works.
[59:35.170 --> 59:37.850]  That's what we're about here at Off The Hook.
[59:38.730 --> 59:39.690]  It's 9 o'clock.
[59:39.690 --> 59:41.430]  You're listening to WBAI in New York.
[59:42.050 --> 59:43.430]  We're on for another hour.
[59:44.670 --> 59:50.910]  And, yes, we're going to call up that person in just a moment or two and hook them in as well.
[59:50.950 --> 59:54.590]  But first, we want to see a bit of a flurry, a bit more of a flurry of calls here.
[59:54.590 --> 59:56.370]  We're not over the $2,000 mark.
[59:56.510 --> 59:59.550]  Now, you know, that means we're a little behind because we're at the second hour.
[59:59.670 --> 01:00:00.950]  We wanted to do $1,000 an hour.
[01:00:01.650 --> 01:00:03.250]  And we're only at 1830.
[01:00:03.270 --> 01:00:09.010]  So please, if you're waiting to call, this is the time you should be waiting for.
[01:00:09.170 --> 01:00:11.050]  212-209-2950.
[01:00:11.250 --> 01:00:20.290]  If you've gotten anything out of what we've been talking about, both this week and in weeks previous, then we ask that you call us and show your support.
[01:00:20.430 --> 01:00:22.110]  212-209-2950.
[01:00:22.110 --> 01:00:25.050]  So it makes all the difference in the world to us.
[01:00:25.130 --> 01:00:26.770]  We have one call on the line right now.
[01:00:27.850 --> 01:00:30.590]  And we're hoping to get even more.
[01:00:30.890 --> 01:00:32.890]  Guys, any other stories from Dayton?
[01:00:33.310 --> 01:00:35.030]  Well, there's some more stuff, yeah.
[01:00:35.230 --> 01:00:35.630]  More stuff.
[01:00:35.830 --> 01:00:36.430]  More stuff.
[01:00:36.690 --> 01:00:37.450]  Gosh, it was...
[01:00:37.950 --> 01:00:42.010]  I had an experience when I was coming back from one of my trips.
[01:00:42.010 --> 01:00:45.030]  I met a gentleman that had this very model...
[01:00:45.030 --> 01:00:45.870]  We were looking back to, like,Welcome to Dr.
[00:01.170 --> 00:09.050]  And I'll have to look for, when I'm at Dayton, two parking spots away from where we were, another vendor had this.
[00:09.070 --> 00:09.890]  A GPS unit.
[00:10.070 --> 00:11.370]  A little GPS unit.
[00:11.650 --> 00:14.810]  And I didn't realize... it grew on me.
[00:15.170 --> 00:23.410]  We set it up in the dash of the car, and it was just so much fun to be able to see a graphic of the compass.
[00:23.990 --> 00:29.650]  It would tell you the track in ticks, the actual speed that the van was traveling.
[00:29.650 --> 00:34.070]  If the needle said 75, this might say 76.2.
[00:34.910 --> 00:40.470]  The amount of miles that we had actually traveled, the altitude that we had reached.
[00:40.590 --> 00:46.370]  We were going through the mountains, and we got a particular charge out of reaching 2,600 feet.
[00:47.770 --> 00:48.370]  Wow.
[00:48.690 --> 00:56.930]  The actual longitude and latitude position and the time, all plugged into this one little thing.
[00:56.930 --> 01:00.650]  We were ticking the waypoints, and it was a lot of fun.
[01:01.590 --> 01:03.350]  I'm still having fun playing with that.
[01:03.470 --> 01:06.470]  If you were at the Dayton Hamvention, we're asking you to call us now.
[01:06.610 --> 01:08.050]  I'm sure there are people out there who are...
[01:08.050 --> 01:09.310]  Oh, maybe you're in Dayton.
[01:09.490 --> 01:10.590]  You're in Ohio somewhere.
[01:10.730 --> 01:12.670]  Please call us, 212-209-2950.
[01:12.670 --> 01:15.170]  Show us that Off the Hook means something to you.
[01:15.970 --> 01:19.750]  Emmanuel, I ran into something along those same lines, but it was kind of scary.
[01:20.750 --> 01:26.430]  A company called Davis Instruments has developed a chip for your automobile.
[01:27.150 --> 01:39.230]  And if your car was made after 1996 or later, it uses something called an ODB-2 bus, like a data bus in the car for the different digital systems to talk to each other.
[01:40.730 --> 01:42.370]  And you can buy this chip.
[01:42.470 --> 01:43.430]  It doesn't cost very much.
[01:43.550 --> 01:46.870]  And plug it into the data port on your car, which is under the dash.
[01:46.870 --> 01:49.630]  It's what the mechanic plugs into to do diagnostic information.
[01:49.910 --> 01:50.230]  Look at this.
[01:50.350 --> 01:50.750]  Four calls.
[01:50.850 --> 01:51.970]  Maybe everybody's in Dayton tonight.
[01:52.190 --> 01:53.590]  212-209-2950.
[01:53.750 --> 01:54.610]  Please keep it coming in.
[01:54.870 --> 01:55.230]  Great.
[01:56.170 --> 01:58.570]  Anyway, you can get this chip and plug it in your car.
[01:58.690 --> 02:09.510]  And then if someone uses your car, like suppose you have teenage kids or you have employees that use this car, you plug this chip in, and it will log 300 hours of usage.
[02:09.750 --> 02:11.510]  If you stop the car, it stops logging in.
[02:11.910 --> 02:31.510]  Anyway, after you've logged as much as you want, you can pull this chip out, plug it into your PC, see exactly how fast this person drove, what time they drove, how fast they broke, or rather applied the brakes in the car, all kinds of things you'd want to find out about a person's driving habits.
[02:31.910 --> 02:39.670]  And the scary thing, this company told me, is they're in negotiations with all the major car rental companies to install these rental cars.
[02:39.670 --> 02:58.290]  So you may remember the story that we talked about on the air last year where a gentleman was contesting in court a fine they received from their car rental company for hundreds of dollars because he exceeded the speed limit on the trip during where he rented a car.
[02:58.550 --> 03:08.070]  Well, that was done with GPS technology, but this is even scarier because every time you exceed your...
[03:08.070 --> 03:11.670]  it wouldn't matter if you're out of GPS range or your GPS antenna wasn't working.
[03:13.130 --> 03:19.750]  In the near future, any rental car you get is likely to log how fast you drive during your entire trip.
[03:20.090 --> 03:25.830]  And if you look at the rental contract, it will probably say you won't go over 65 miles an hour or whatever.
[03:26.230 --> 03:31.410]  So Jeff and I were discussing ways of maybe disabling this chip that's in the car.
[03:31.410 --> 03:32.690]  It just plugs under the dash.
[03:33.150 --> 03:34.770]  And it's something to look out for.
[03:34.950 --> 03:38.850]  It's one of the many things about technology that's double-edged.
[03:39.250 --> 03:41.930]  And we should be on the lookout for things like that.
[03:41.990 --> 03:48.350]  Of course, in this day and age, merely discussing how to subvert that technology could be against some kind of law.
[03:49.190 --> 03:51.930]  You know, violation of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act or something.
[03:51.930 --> 03:52.410]  We were speaking hypothetically.
[03:53.230 --> 03:53.470]  Okay.
[03:53.710 --> 03:55.450]  And you're speaking hypothetically now, I hope.
[03:55.470 --> 03:55.870]  Of course.
[03:55.990 --> 03:59.410]  Because we have many people listening that would report us in a second.
[04:00.030 --> 04:00.530]  And, yeah.
[04:00.630 --> 04:02.330]  No, it was all conjecture.
[04:02.490 --> 04:02.810]  All right.
[04:03.950 --> 04:09.510]  Well, we have with us, joining us, Dan Morgan, formerly of Satellite Watch News.
[04:09.690 --> 04:10.570]  Dan, how are you?
[04:10.730 --> 04:11.290]  Good, Emmanuel.
[04:11.310 --> 04:11.810]  How are you doing?
[04:11.930 --> 04:12.290]  Pretty good.
[04:12.370 --> 04:12.590]  Pretty good.
[04:12.630 --> 04:14.830]  Sorry I missed you this year at the Dayton Hemvention.
[04:15.010 --> 04:17.350]  But you got to hang out with Bernie and Jeff here.
[04:17.690 --> 04:18.450]  Had a great time.
[04:18.650 --> 04:18.830]  Yeah.
[04:20.550 --> 04:22.190]  So what's new with you these days?
[04:22.190 --> 04:23.010]  Not much.
[04:23.170 --> 04:32.650]  Just sitting back, working in the internet industry right now, and trying to educate people to live outside this thing I call a box.
[04:33.630 --> 04:33.790]  Mm-hmm.
[04:33.890 --> 04:35.090]  People are...
[04:35.090 --> 04:38.410]  Education today has gotten so bad, Emmanuel.
[04:38.850 --> 04:41.390]  People are being so programmed.
[04:42.110 --> 04:50.290]  And thank God you're doing what you're doing because you guys bring people out of this thing called a box, a society's box.
[04:50.970 --> 04:55.050]  And it's really unique environment right now.
[04:55.570 --> 05:02.870]  The stress level of America goes up a notch, what, too high now, the terrorism level.
[05:03.770 --> 05:07.390]  They can't give you any reason why it's going up, but it's increasing again.
[05:07.730 --> 05:13.930]  So I guess because we all live in this thing called a box, it's okay that they do that.
[05:14.290 --> 05:15.930]  They don't have to tell you why.
[05:15.930 --> 05:16.850]  Right, right.
[05:17.110 --> 05:19.450]  And you know, no matter what, they always win.
[05:19.450 --> 05:22.150]  You know, if there's no terrorist act, it's because they did it.
[05:22.230 --> 05:24.350]  And if there is, well, they have to do more then.
[05:24.530 --> 05:25.330]  It makes you wonder.
[05:25.550 --> 05:26.890]  It makes you wonder why.
[05:27.950 --> 05:33.910]  But what amazes me is why people actually just say, okay, it's dangerous again.
[05:34.790 --> 05:36.570]  We should all just duck.
[05:36.850 --> 05:43.270]  The neatest thing I got to bring to your attention, and this may be a bit off topic tonight, but it's the neatest thing.
[05:44.130 --> 05:45.450]  I'm kind of a survivalist.
[05:45.550 --> 05:50.810]  I spent several tours in Vietnam, been around the country a little bit, so I prepare for things like this.
[05:50.970 --> 06:00.910]  I mean, when people are flying planes into your large skyscrapers in America, but, you know, the World Trade Center, you kind of say, oh, there's something bad going on.
[06:01.330 --> 06:03.150]  I mean, that was obvious to all of us.
[06:03.670 --> 06:06.970]  So I kind of prepared for the worst outcome.
[06:07.190 --> 06:09.650]  You know, I bought myself an example, a gas mess.
[06:09.890 --> 06:11.130]  A lot of people laugh at that.
[06:11.450 --> 06:14.350]  America thinks they're so protected because they live in this thing called a box.
[06:15.290 --> 06:16.390]  But they're really not.
[06:17.130 --> 06:22.150]  In the newspaper, all right, our great FEMA people say, be prepared.
[06:22.150 --> 06:23.010]  This is all you need.
[06:23.090 --> 06:23.970]  You need a first aid kit.
[06:24.570 --> 06:25.910]  You need diapers for the baby.
[06:26.710 --> 06:30.810]  You need a water supply, some food, a couple of flashlights, and a radio.
[06:30.810 --> 06:31.710]  What about the duct tape?
[06:32.070 --> 06:35.110]  Oh, you got to have, no, the duct tape, they kind of blew that off after a while.
[06:35.470 --> 06:36.450]  That became a joke.
[06:37.090 --> 06:41.530]  So anyway, this was the big thing.
[06:41.630 --> 06:42.910]  FEMA writes this great big article.
[06:43.070 --> 06:44.690]  It's front page in a local newspaper here.
[06:45.110 --> 06:51.590]  The next day, front page in a local newspaper, they said, FEMA says, do not buy gas masks because they can kill you.
[06:51.710 --> 06:54.210]  You can suffocate owning a gas mask.
[06:55.050 --> 07:02.050]  The next day, a local police department was given 30 gas masks to be prepared for a terrorist attack.
[07:03.730 --> 07:05.690]  Now, what is wrong with that picture?
[07:06.270 --> 07:07.790]  And they were happy to have them.
[07:11.550 --> 07:12.030]  Interesting.
[07:12.630 --> 07:14.850]  Accurate technical information.
[07:15.270 --> 07:15.770]  Yeah, yeah.
[07:16.690 --> 07:26.850]  Well, Dan, now, you've had quite a history as far as battling for freedom of speech, and they came and they shut you down for what you were saying, right?
[07:27.010 --> 07:28.110]  That's exactly right.
[07:28.890 --> 07:30.870]  What I did, folks, is I published a magazine.
[07:31.330 --> 07:32.470]  Well, that sounds familiar.
[07:32.870 --> 07:33.270]  Yes.
[07:33.830 --> 07:35.530]  Talking about satellite technology.
[07:35.770 --> 07:37.630]  And this is where I'm going with this box thing.
[07:38.130 --> 07:39.970]  Okay, living outside the box.
[07:40.210 --> 07:41.370]  Here's the deal.
[07:41.470 --> 07:43.550]  I was publishing a magazine talking about satellite technology.
[07:44.070 --> 07:48.070]  Of course, a lot of people know TVRO, if you will, that's the big dish.
[07:48.470 --> 07:50.190]  TVRO means TV receive only.
[07:51.670 --> 07:52.570]  It's encrypted.
[07:52.750 --> 07:56.490]  All your pay-per-views, all your HBO, Cinemaxes, so forth.
[07:56.790 --> 07:57.730]  They're encrypted.
[07:57.930 --> 07:58.310]  They're scrambled.
[07:58.970 --> 08:07.070]  A programmer wants to protect his investment, and they do that by scrambling these things so the general public just can't receive them.
[08:07.690 --> 08:10.550]  We wrote about the technology itself.
[08:11.570 --> 08:13.710]  It's encryption, how to decrypt it.
[08:13.890 --> 08:16.070]  We never told people directly how to do it.
[08:16.350 --> 08:18.410]  We explained what went into it.
[08:19.530 --> 08:22.270]  And in the end, first, it was the big dish.
[08:22.390 --> 08:30.350]  I'm sure a lot of you folks have seen the large 10-foot, 7 to 10 to 12-foot dishes sitting in people's yards and incense.
[08:30.530 --> 08:35.330]  That has come down to the small direct TV dishes, the 18-inch dish.
[08:36.250 --> 08:44.230]  And what happened is General Instruments, the people who originally started the encryption with the big dish, never bothered us.
[08:44.270 --> 08:44.810]  They loved us.
[08:44.970 --> 08:46.910]  We were a source of information for them.
[08:46.930 --> 08:52.850]  Who was hacking, if you will, their device, who was playing with the technology.
[08:53.130 --> 08:55.770]  So they kind of enjoyed us as a source of information.
[08:56.670 --> 09:04.010]  Direct TV didn't find us that amusing and decided to shut us down, and they did that through major litigation.
[09:04.290 --> 09:05.390]  They sued us.
[09:05.490 --> 09:09.730]  They told us we couldn't do these things, and ultimately we had to leave.
[09:12.770 --> 09:21.550]  They actually took away their best source of information on who was doing what, with what.
[09:21.870 --> 09:23.810]  They took away their intelligence.
[09:24.590 --> 09:27.110]  Magazines like that can be intel for people like that.
[09:27.470 --> 09:27.990]  Absolutely.
[09:28.450 --> 09:31.310]  And they didn't look at the value of just the knowledge.
[09:31.630 --> 09:33.230]  We were teaching people.
[09:33.910 --> 09:39.310]  You know, and it's a sad situation, what's happened in this country.
[09:39.950 --> 09:41.250]  How people can just...
[09:41.250 --> 09:43.350]  You know, you can't speak about things like that.
[09:43.390 --> 09:47.670]  If it's not proper and it's not right in there, they put their thumb on you and snub you out.
[09:49.410 --> 09:53.610]  Emmanuel's seen several cases like this, and it's a bad thing.
[09:54.830 --> 10:14.530]  And what really bothers me, and some of the things I was writing in the magazine, in the editorial column towards the last issues, I was noticing subscriptions decrease because we were having more like freebie a month delayed publications.
[10:14.530 --> 10:16.370]  We were putting them on our website.
[10:16.870 --> 10:20.990]  So people started to drop, start losing touch with the print media.
[10:21.110 --> 10:26.490]  They would wait a month to see, you know, the current issue on the internet.
[10:26.870 --> 10:30.890]  Well, that information was time sensitive.
[10:31.730 --> 10:33.630]  So those people really lost out.
[10:33.850 --> 10:43.670]  And a lot of these people that waited to see that magazine on the web were in awe when they finally found out that we went away.
[10:44.050 --> 10:48.430]  So the point in case here is, support print media.
[10:49.670 --> 10:51.850]  You've got to support print media.
[10:52.190 --> 10:55.670]  Don't, you know, like, I don't know if you publish your magazine on the web at all, Emmanuel?
[10:56.290 --> 10:58.870]  No, because we're too busy just keeping the website going.
[10:59.030 --> 11:00.890]  It's like an independent project in and of itself.
[11:01.430 --> 11:09.290]  But, you know, we welcome people spreading the information that we print because that's, you know, the goal when you print something, at least in my world.
[11:09.330 --> 11:09.570]  To educate people.
[11:09.570 --> 11:10.930]  To educate people to get the word out.
[11:11.010 --> 11:16.690]  That's why we want people to, you know, copy the radio show and just, you know, copy the film if they can't afford to buy it themselves.
[11:16.970 --> 11:20.810]  Of course, we want people to still buy it so that we stay in business and can continue doing this.
[11:20.810 --> 11:21.990]  That's an essential part of it all.
[11:22.230 --> 11:24.870]  But the overall feeling when you're in something like this
[11:34.670 --> 11:38.030]  is people are... how many homes would you say in America has a computer?
[11:38.790 --> 11:39.990]  Um, that's a good question.
[11:40.130 --> 11:41.850]  I probably would get that completely wrong.
[11:41.970 --> 11:42.390]  What do you think, Jeff?
[11:42.610 --> 11:44.490]  Um, a third?
[11:44.990 --> 11:45.930]  You say a third.
[11:46.210 --> 11:46.510]  Yeah.
[11:46.510 --> 11:53.050]  The big problem is, guys, is that people are relying more and more and more every day on this thing called a computer.
[11:53.270 --> 11:56.310]  They're letting their subscriptions to print media go away.
[11:56.470 --> 11:56.830]  Mm-hmm.
[11:57.870 --> 12:01.130]  Supporting these things, these books, these papers.
[12:02.030 --> 12:05.930]  Print media is still a very, very, very valuable medium.
[12:06.170 --> 12:09.150]  Much like what you do on WBAI in New York.
[12:10.050 --> 12:13.710]  Communication, talking, you can't get it all off the internet.
[12:13.710 --> 12:19.130]  I know your show's available on the internet, but it's also available over the airwaves to people.
[12:19.410 --> 12:21.710]  These things need to be supported.
[12:22.010 --> 12:24.710]  And if we keep just using computers...
[12:24.710 --> 12:25.810]  I mean, computers are great.
[12:25.950 --> 12:26.990]  I use them every day.
[12:27.470 --> 12:36.250]  But the thing is, is... and I was talking to a publisher two days ago saying that his subscription rate has dropped 15% in the last year.
[12:37.750 --> 12:42.730]  And he said the biggest reason was because people were getting their information off the internet.
[12:42.730 --> 12:43.490]  Mm-hmm.
[12:43.790 --> 12:47.390]  Well, you know, it also points to something else that affects us.
[12:47.510 --> 12:53.150]  Most publications, they don't get their money so much from subscribers, they get it from advertisers.
[12:53.530 --> 12:53.570]  Right.
[12:53.570 --> 12:58.890]  And those of us that publish alternative news, we rely on those subscribers more than anything else.
[12:59.030 --> 13:01.310]  You're primarily subscriber-supported.
[13:01.310 --> 13:01.790]  That's right.
[13:01.870 --> 13:04.510]  We're entirely subscriber-supported because we don't have any advertising.
[13:04.750 --> 13:04.930]  Yeah.
[13:05.110 --> 13:14.530]  And that's kind of a parallel to this radio station, which has no advertising and relies on its subscribers, on people to actually call up and pledge and become a part of it.
[13:14.550 --> 13:22.230]  And I should point out, too, by becoming a part of it, you also become eligible to vote for the local advisory board, which is something fairly new here.
[13:22.230 --> 13:34.250]  And that's something that I think people should take a great interest in, actually becoming part of the radio station and determining its future and what direction it's going to be heading in.
[13:34.410 --> 13:40.090]  But the only way to do that is to call in and pledge and show some support for whatever it is you can afford.
[13:40.450 --> 13:41.730]  It's vitally important.
[13:41.730 --> 13:43.790]  We got over $2,100.
[13:44.250 --> 13:49.990]  We're almost at $2,200 at this point, which is good, but we need to hit $3,000, I think.
[13:50.050 --> 13:50.890]  Is that our goal for tonight?
[13:51.070 --> 13:52.730]  And we have until 10 o'clock to do it.
[13:52.950 --> 13:56.650]  And it's just going to take a few people calling in, pledging whatever it is they can afford.
[13:57.530 --> 13:59.010]  212-209-2950.
[13:59.230 --> 14:01.490]  And we have all kinds of premiums.
[14:01.510 --> 14:03.290]  I don't want to go too crazy describing them again.
[14:03.470 --> 14:09.530]  Basically a hooded sweatshirt and VCDs of the H2K2 conference and off-the-hook t-shirts, things like that.
[14:09.530 --> 14:14.370]  The Italian people know all about them, so feel free to ask them any questions.
[14:14.510 --> 14:16.350]  212-209-2950.
[14:16.610 --> 14:17.130]  Emmanuel?
[14:17.430 --> 14:17.910]  Yes, go ahead.
[14:18.110 --> 14:25.230]  I just wanted to mention that there's another big parallel between print media and radio, like WBAI.
[14:25.430 --> 14:38.790]  And that is both of those technologies, which although they've been around for decades or centuries, those are the only two technologies around for getting information, and in our case, good technical information.
[14:38.790 --> 14:47.490]  You can't get anywhere else, whereby others, specifically government, can't easily look over your shoulder.
[14:48.530 --> 15:02.690]  If you look at the contract with your internet service provider, you'll find that your surfing habits could be easily watched by the ISP or any law enforcement agency that asks them to track your activity.
[15:02.690 --> 15:08.590]  If you listen to WBAI, getting information from this station, that can happen.
[15:08.590 --> 15:15.930]  If you're reading print media, unless somebody's, you know, physically looking over your shoulder, that's not going to happen there either.
[15:16.030 --> 15:22.710]  So if you're the paranoid type, help support this radio station, because your listening habits can't be tracked.
[15:22.710 --> 15:24.290]  Yeah, that's true.
[15:24.610 --> 15:28.930]  The big thing here, folks, you know, like I said, I was in print media for a lot of years.
[15:29.130 --> 15:30.310]  I believe in print media today.
[15:31.110 --> 15:34.470]  The biggest thing is, is what Emmanuel Bernie S is doing.
[15:34.850 --> 15:41.330]  These guys, Flash and all, everybody is doing really, really fantastic things.
[15:41.490 --> 15:43.190]  They're number one, keeping you informed.
[15:44.910 --> 15:46.270]  Knowledge is power.
[15:46.270 --> 15:48.890]  These folks offer that type of ability.
[15:49.090 --> 15:52.090]  They bring you up to speed on what's happening in the industry.
[15:52.590 --> 15:55.130]  You know, everybody looks at 2,600 folks as hackers.
[15:55.430 --> 16:00.490]  Well, first of all, hackers are not, most of hackers, are really not malicious people.
[16:01.210 --> 16:02.070]  They're learning.
[16:02.310 --> 16:03.030]  Why are they learning?
[16:03.210 --> 16:05.670]  To educate you, to educate themselves.
[16:05.850 --> 16:08.050]  They've got this thirst for knowledge.
[16:08.490 --> 16:13.430]  They live outside this thing, again, excuse my expression, but outside this thing called a box.
[16:13.950 --> 16:18.210]  They're not saying, well, Joe Blow said you can't do this, so you don't ever do that.
[16:18.290 --> 16:18.450]  No.
[16:18.570 --> 16:21.090]  They're saying, I want to know why I can't do that.
[16:21.210 --> 16:22.950]  I want to know why it works.
[16:23.110 --> 16:24.230]  I want to know why.
[16:24.330 --> 16:26.910]  Just don't sit there and say, you can't do that.
[16:27.410 --> 16:29.150]  And that's why hackers keep getting in trouble.
[16:29.670 --> 16:30.870]  Because they do that all the time.
[16:30.930 --> 16:35.530]  The thing is, Emmanuel, I've known people of all walks of life.
[16:35.670 --> 16:36.950]  People that study software.
[16:37.650 --> 16:40.830]  People that have disassembled code that shouldn't be disassembled.
[16:40.890 --> 16:41.510]  Why did they do it?
[16:41.510 --> 16:43.190]  They wanted to know why.
[16:43.370 --> 16:44.810]  They didn't want to hack anything.
[16:45.010 --> 16:46.750]  They didn't want to destroy anything.
[16:46.910 --> 16:49.490]  They just simply wanted to know how it worked.
[16:49.610 --> 16:50.570]  Why it worked.
[16:51.130 --> 16:54.350]  Emmanuel, Bernie, you guys do excellent things.
[16:54.470 --> 16:59.230]  If you people out there can't reach in your pockets and keep this thing alive, shame on you.
[16:59.410 --> 17:03.930]  If this stuff goes away, there will be no more information.
[17:03.930 --> 17:06.250]  The information highway is dying now.
[17:06.330 --> 17:07.350]  The true information highway.
[17:07.550 --> 17:08.610]  Sure, you have the internet.
[17:08.850 --> 17:11.930]  But haven't you noticed certain sites vanishing all the time?
[17:12.050 --> 17:12.930]  Why are they vanishing?
[17:13.330 --> 17:14.310]  Who is threatening them?
[17:14.430 --> 17:16.030]  Who is keeping them under their finger?
[17:16.210 --> 17:17.990]  Who is saying, you can't go out of this thing.
[17:17.990 --> 17:19.490]  Excuse my expression again.
[17:19.670 --> 17:20.350]  Out of the box.
[17:21.010 --> 17:21.750]  Heck with it.
[17:21.850 --> 17:22.930]  You can go out of the box.
[17:22.990 --> 17:23.630]  You can learn.
[17:23.810 --> 17:26.250]  You can be as smart as you want to be.
[17:26.370 --> 17:29.950]  But you must also help support that information highway.
[17:29.950 --> 17:31.250]  The true information highway.
[17:31.690 --> 17:33.250]  And that's one of the things these guys do.
[17:33.430 --> 17:35.350]  2,600 is a great group of people.
[17:35.670 --> 17:36.650]  I'll tell you what.
[17:37.390 --> 17:38.450]  My own person...
[17:38.450 --> 17:39.930]  I know these people personally, folks.
[17:41.010 --> 17:42.270]  They've been really good to me.
[17:42.510 --> 17:44.550]  I hope I've been there for them.
[17:44.550 --> 17:45.770]  You've been good to us, Dan.
[17:45.990 --> 17:49.030]  And I'll tell you, they're valuable people.
[17:49.330 --> 17:53.570]  And I believe that every year I travel to Dayton, Ohio to meet them.
[17:54.090 --> 17:56.290]  And just sit there and talk with them.
[17:57.090 --> 17:58.930]  And it's a fascinating thing.
[17:58.930 --> 18:00.290]  We share ideas.
[18:00.590 --> 18:02.150]  Nobody is sitting there hacking.
[18:02.790 --> 18:08.590]  We're sitting there discussing what the world is coming to and where it should be.
[18:08.790 --> 18:10.290]  And we believe in good things.
[18:10.550 --> 18:12.070]  There's no terrorism here.
[18:12.390 --> 18:13.750]  No, definitely not.
[18:14.130 --> 18:15.850]  This is good stuff, people.
[18:16.010 --> 18:23.370]  This is stuff to make you one step smarter in case someone is trying to, you know, maybe do some terroristic things to you.
[18:23.650 --> 18:25.410]  They bring you to the top.
[18:25.410 --> 18:29.910]  But like they said earlier, I believe it was Bernie S talking about the internet.
[18:30.250 --> 18:32.410]  Sure, you can be eavesdropped on real easy.
[18:32.630 --> 18:33.910]  These people told you that you could.
[18:34.410 --> 18:35.310]  And it's true.
[18:35.490 --> 18:36.470]  I'm an ISP.
[18:37.590 --> 18:38.770]  I know it can happen.
[18:38.910 --> 18:39.590]  We don't do that.
[18:39.670 --> 18:43.250]  As a matter of fact, we run one of the most secure systems in the world here.
[18:43.690 --> 18:45.390]  And we value our customers.
[18:45.550 --> 18:46.850]  We value their privacy.
[18:46.850 --> 18:48.770]  What's the name of your ISP?
[18:48.990 --> 18:50.550]  It's pop4.net.
[18:51.930 --> 18:53.510]  www.pop4.net.
[18:53.770 --> 19:05.290]  Yeah, one thing I've noticed with the internet, as you were talking about, is the change as as more corporate control restrictions in what you can do as a customer and what you can't do.
[19:06.130 --> 19:08.350]  A lot of times now, you can't run a server.
[19:08.590 --> 19:09.650]  You can't run a website.
[19:09.650 --> 19:12.170]  You can't have a static IP.
[19:12.510 --> 19:16.710]  All kinds of things that, you know, we were used to back in the 90s.
[19:16.830 --> 19:25.390]  It's slowly being taken away and controlled and, you know, more and more complete away so that you can't shape it yourselves.
[19:25.390 --> 19:29.650]  You have to basically, if you want the high-speed access, you have to play by their rules.
[19:29.650 --> 19:31.710]  And if you don't get that, you don't get anything.
[19:31.930 --> 19:34.570]  Well, our big thing is, is we value our customers.
[19:34.570 --> 19:36.010]  We take very, very good care.
[19:36.110 --> 19:37.050]  And I'm not advertising.
[19:37.270 --> 19:38.950]  I mean, I'm here to help you guys out.
[19:38.950 --> 19:40.750]  I love what you guys do.
[19:40.930 --> 19:43.770]  And you know, the thing is, is we're an honest company.
[19:43.930 --> 19:46.030]  I know you folks are as honest as ever.
[19:46.130 --> 19:49.670]  I mean, good people and good information is hard to come by.
[19:50.130 --> 19:54.650]  And you got to guard this stuff because there's not much of it left in this country.
[19:55.010 --> 19:59.330]  People are always trying to say, you know, they're good.
[19:59.490 --> 20:01.210]  Maybe they're a little bit too good.
[20:01.410 --> 20:03.510]  So let's push them aside.
[20:03.850 --> 20:07.290]  Don't ever let anything like this go away.
[20:07.290 --> 20:09.670]  2-1-2-2-0-9-2-9-5-0.
[20:09.810 --> 20:11.130]  We have no calls on the line.
[20:11.290 --> 20:17.190]  Can you believe after that kind of impassioned speech, I would think the switchboards would be, you know, blowing up from all the calls coming in.
[20:17.190 --> 20:19.050]  I highly recommend you guys get on the phone.
[20:19.110 --> 20:19.950]  I really do.
[20:20.470 --> 20:22.430]  And, you know, like the satellite watch news.
[20:22.590 --> 20:23.530]  We went down.
[20:23.690 --> 20:24.650]  They got us.
[20:24.830 --> 20:26.010]  Of course, it was a battle.
[20:26.330 --> 20:28.430]  Again, DirecTV was against us.
[20:28.530 --> 20:30.130]  A little teeny publication, folks.
[20:30.910 --> 20:33.770]  I said, you know, they sent me a cease and desist letter.
[20:33.930 --> 20:34.770]  I could have went away.
[20:35.070 --> 20:36.230]  Just poof, gone.
[20:36.750 --> 20:37.550]  But no.
[20:37.790 --> 20:40.610]  I said, I believe in the freedom of press.
[20:40.990 --> 20:42.210]  The freedom of speech.
[20:42.210 --> 20:43.350]  I believe in America.
[20:43.730 --> 20:46.510]  This is the greatest nation on the globe.
[20:47.570 --> 20:54.630]  And how can a major corporation take a little company and put their thumb on it?
[20:54.710 --> 20:56.390]  Well, it's called the dollar.
[20:57.730 --> 21:00.950]  You know, in the legal system today, it's not if you're right.
[21:00.950 --> 21:02.090]  It's not if you're wrong.
[21:02.190 --> 21:03.630]  It's how much money you have.
[21:04.090 --> 21:07.670]  So you can be totally, totally innocent of any crime.
[21:08.530 --> 21:12.970]  If the prosecution has the most money, they win.
[21:14.310 --> 21:16.290]  And you can't let that happen.
[21:16.470 --> 21:17.310]  This is America.
[21:17.730 --> 21:18.770]  God, what a place.
[21:18.950 --> 21:24.410]  I've heard that said so many times where, you know, if it all depends on how much money you have.
[21:24.530 --> 21:26.090]  It doesn't matter if you're right or wrong in the courtroom.
[21:26.410 --> 21:29.930]  And it's such a sad thing that we've been brought to this.
[21:31.190 --> 21:33.810]  But unfortunately, those are the realities of the situation.
[21:33.810 --> 21:37.870]  One way that we can fight that is to have as many voices as possible.
[21:38.030 --> 21:42.710]  Now, Dan, it really upsets me a lot that your voice was silenced in that manner.
[21:42.850 --> 21:46.150]  But you still have your voice, you know, as a human being.
[21:46.270 --> 21:48.270]  And you can still speak out as you're speaking out now.
[21:48.750 --> 22:01.010]  But it really angers me that a company could come and take your newsletter, which I read religiously, and just shut it down because they want to keep their, you know, their information secret from the public.
[22:01.010 --> 22:03.230]  They don't want people to know how the technology works.
[22:03.550 --> 22:13.410]  And because they're bigger, because they're more powerful, because they can get all the lawyers they want, they can just, you know, run roughshod over somebody simply speaking their mind and spreading information.
[22:13.570 --> 22:15.350]  Let me boil you a little bit more.
[22:16.450 --> 22:22.610]  Direct TV originally used the smart card encryption system, which I'm pretty sure you're familiar with.
[22:22.610 --> 22:22.830]  Yes.
[22:24.390 --> 22:30.970]  They bought that from a company called News Datacom, which was owned by Rupert Murdoch.
[22:31.670 --> 22:32.110]  Okay?
[22:32.570 --> 22:33.850]  And now Rupert Murdoch...
[22:33.850 --> 22:35.250]  Rupert Murdoch owns Direct TV.
[22:35.450 --> 22:36.430]  Who was in bed with who?
[22:36.670 --> 22:36.910]  Wow.
[22:36.910 --> 22:42.490]  And when they bought the encryption system, they knew it was flawed and hacked already.
[22:42.910 --> 22:43.170]  Mm-hmm.
[22:43.550 --> 22:43.910]  Yeah.
[22:44.050 --> 22:50.030]  And you know, it's interesting, too, that the newest cards they came out with, whatever series that is, was supposed to be unhackable.
[22:50.190 --> 22:51.950]  I saw one the other day that was hacked.
[22:51.950 --> 22:55.210]  I haven't seen that stuff in, like, eight years or...
[22:55.210 --> 22:56.170]  No, no, it hasn't been that long.
[22:56.290 --> 22:56.810]  Five years.
[22:56.970 --> 22:59.090]  Well, you're not allowed to even think about it, I don't think, right?
[22:59.370 --> 23:01.410]  No, I don't even think about it anymore.
[23:01.410 --> 23:02.530]  But I'm going to tell you something.
[23:02.950 --> 23:10.230]  It is amazing that, ultimately, I was sued in 99, put out of business in September of 99.
[23:11.010 --> 23:11.910]  Totally out of business.
[23:12.150 --> 23:13.910]  I mean, left penniless, folks.
[23:14.030 --> 23:18.690]  It took everything I had just to get to where I got in federal court.
[23:19.390 --> 23:19.790]  Everything.
[23:20.090 --> 23:20.250]  Everything.
[23:20.250 --> 23:21.250]  I mean, everything.
[23:21.510 --> 23:25.250]  I had $100,000 saved up in the bank to build me a new house.
[23:25.530 --> 23:32.330]  Well, to tell you the truth, I still live in the same mobile home that I lived in in 99, in 89, in 79.
[23:32.330 --> 23:34.450]  My dreams were taken.
[23:35.270 --> 23:37.710]  Taken by corporate America.
[23:38.170 --> 23:38.590]  Wow.
[23:39.110 --> 23:44.710]  I still live in a, what is it, 12 by 70 mobile home.
[23:45.630 --> 23:47.070]  I've been a publisher.
[23:47.550 --> 23:50.130]  I'm a double E engineer.
[23:51.670 --> 23:53.410]  They took everything I ever had.
[23:53.410 --> 23:53.950]  I worked for.
[23:54.170 --> 23:54.710]  Gone.
[23:54.970 --> 23:55.270]  Poof.
[23:56.290 --> 23:57.850]  And that can happen to you.
[23:57.970 --> 24:14.110]  If you don't keep on top of what's going on in this country, and the only way to do that is with people like Emanuel and, you know, 2,600 listening to this radio show off the hook on WBAI on Wednesday nights, God, support it.
[24:14.110 --> 24:16.810]  If you don't support it, oh well.
[24:17.410 --> 24:17.830]  Mm-hmm.
[24:17.890 --> 24:18.910]  It won't be here.
[24:19.450 --> 24:25.810]  When you talk about what's, by the way, our phone number, 212-209-2950, please, let's get those phone calls coming in.
[24:25.930 --> 24:32.350]  When you talk about what's happened to you and the horrible injustice, I think of how many other people I know that have been through similar things.
[24:32.350 --> 24:39.770]  Whether it be Bernie S., you know, being imprisoned and practically tortured in prison or what happened to Kevin Mitnick.
[24:39.890 --> 24:52.450]  And, you know, even 2,600 ourselves, we were come after by, you know, the Motion Picture Association came after us simply because we published source code to a program which didn't do what they said it was going to do in the first place.
[24:53.130 --> 25:06.050]  The intimidation tactics, which, you know, if we didn't have the kind of support that we had, both from organizations like EFF and also all the readers and listeners that turned out and helped us spread the news, you know, that made such a difference.
[25:06.230 --> 25:08.210]  That is what made us survive this.
[25:08.390 --> 25:10.790]  If it wasn't for that, I don't think we would have made it.
[25:10.930 --> 25:11.890]  I don't think we would have survived.
[25:12.150 --> 25:13.010]  I know you.
[25:13.190 --> 25:16.350]  And, you know, when we first met, we kind of just stood there and looked at each other.
[25:16.470 --> 25:21.210]  You know, people that have been had like we've been had, you just kind of size everybody up.
[25:22.450 --> 25:25.610]  You're not just saying, hey, let's go over and talk to this person, but you're saying, whoa, wait a minute.
[25:25.750 --> 25:26.510]  You know what I'm saying?
[25:26.690 --> 25:26.930]  Mm-hmm.
[25:27.490 --> 25:35.330]  The big thing is, is that once you've been here, folks, because there was no, before Emanuel, there was no Emanuel.
[25:35.610 --> 25:37.250]  There might have been, but we never heard of him.
[25:37.390 --> 25:39.990]  Well, there was another one, but we don't talk about him.
[25:40.170 --> 25:40.450]  Okay.
[25:40.670 --> 25:46.630]  But what I'm saying, before I did satellite watch news, there was no satellite watch news to speak of like we did it.
[25:47.430 --> 25:52.730]  And the thing is, is that we both have brought great information to this country.
[25:53.210 --> 25:59.550]  And to this day, it's amazing, the people that remember you, because you taught them something.
[25:59.730 --> 26:01.330]  You actually educated somebody.
[26:01.450 --> 26:07.670]  You didn't educate them to go out and rip somebody off or hack, maliciously destroy somebody's network or anything like that.
[26:07.670 --> 26:12.930]  You taught them how to be more aware of what is going on around you.
[26:13.050 --> 26:14.450]  We have five calls on the line, folks.
[26:14.570 --> 26:15.250]  Your surroundings.
[26:15.370 --> 26:16.430]  209-2950.
[26:16.670 --> 26:17.430]  Your surroundings.
[26:17.870 --> 26:20.630]  You've got to be aware of what's going on around you.
[26:20.830 --> 26:22.550]  You know, I talked to a person.
[26:22.670 --> 26:25.170]  I'll tell you how some people in America have become.
[26:25.730 --> 26:27.830]  And it's sad because I so...
[26:27.830 --> 26:28.950]  You know, I'm a Vietnam veteran.
[26:29.270 --> 26:31.390]  God, I love this country.
[26:31.390 --> 26:35.550]  And I was talking to somebody the other day.
[26:36.050 --> 26:40.530]  And this is how unattached some people can be.
[26:41.030 --> 26:42.090]  They walked...
[26:42.090 --> 26:44.390]  They had lived in this place for about six years.
[26:44.590 --> 26:45.530]  It's a beautiful place.
[26:46.470 --> 26:51.050]  They walked out of their house, walked 30 feet into their backyard.
[26:51.950 --> 26:59.230]  There was a six-foot tree that they did not know was in their yard.
[26:59.970 --> 27:01.550]  Now, Emmanuel, can you believe this?
[27:02.010 --> 27:03.330]  This was a six-foot tree.
[27:03.510 --> 27:05.050]  This guy had never seen this.
[27:06.170 --> 27:07.090]  Six feet tall?
[27:07.230 --> 27:07.990]  Six feet across?
[27:08.250 --> 27:08.970]  Six feet tall.
[27:09.170 --> 27:09.370]  Okay.
[27:09.910 --> 27:11.170]  He said, I've never seen it before.
[27:11.330 --> 27:11.610]  Uh-huh.
[27:11.830 --> 27:13.550]  He's been mowing this lawn forever.
[27:14.730 --> 27:16.590]  Then he walks back in the house.
[27:17.470 --> 27:18.430]  He looked at his wife.
[27:18.670 --> 27:20.910]  He said, did you know about that tree that was in the backyard?
[27:21.550 --> 27:24.490]  She said, that's been growing there for about three or four years.
[27:25.350 --> 27:26.730]  This guy was so...
[27:26.730 --> 27:27.850]  You know what he was wrapped up in?
[27:28.050 --> 27:29.350]  The stock market.
[27:29.650 --> 27:29.850]  Wow.
[27:32.270 --> 27:35.970]  He had lost everything because he was so wrapped up on one company.
[27:36.290 --> 27:38.070]  I'll bet he couldn't see the forest either.
[27:38.670 --> 27:44.510]  This man lost almost everything because he was so narrow-minded.
[27:44.510 --> 27:44.830]  Yeah.
[27:45.030 --> 27:45.210]  Yeah.
[27:45.350 --> 27:49.650]  And that's something that I see in a lot of different people, a lot of different perspectives.
[27:49.710 --> 27:50.790]  You have to open up.
[27:51.210 --> 27:56.670]  And you know, at the radio station you hear all kinds of different viewpoints, things you may agree with, things you may not agree with.
[27:56.770 --> 27:56.790]  Sure.
[27:56.790 --> 28:03.010]  But I think we all have something in common where we're all trying to get peace and justice one way or another.
[28:03.050 --> 28:04.070]  That's kind of what we stand for.
[28:04.230 --> 28:04.490]  For sure.
[28:05.350 --> 28:07.250]  And I'd like to pop my email address.
[28:07.410 --> 28:11.690]  If people would like to write me and just talk back and forth, I'd be glad to write them back.
[28:11.850 --> 28:12.330]  Can I do that?
[28:12.330 --> 28:12.550]  Sure.
[28:12.630 --> 28:12.970]  Go right ahead.
[28:13.150 --> 28:13.470]  All right.
[28:13.550 --> 28:16.710]  It's just simply dan at pop4.net.
[28:16.830 --> 28:18.410]  That's P-O-P, the number four, dot net.
[28:19.310 --> 28:19.550]  Okay.
[28:19.550 --> 28:22.170]  And you know, if you hear us here, just let us know.
[28:22.290 --> 28:23.230]  And that's great.
[28:23.750 --> 28:24.610]  I don't get on here.
[28:24.670 --> 28:25.310]  I haven't talked to you.
[28:25.410 --> 28:27.990]  And it was, geez, I think I spoke to you by phone from Dayton.
[28:28.450 --> 28:30.010]  But prior to that, it's been over a year.
[28:30.110 --> 28:30.330]  Yeah.
[28:30.410 --> 28:31.170]  It's been too long.
[28:31.290 --> 28:37.790]  And you know, I regret losing touch with people over, you know, we get caught up in our own things, you know, a lot as well.
[28:38.090 --> 28:38.350]  Right.
[28:38.350 --> 28:49.550]  But you know, I like to think when it's all said and done, and I get this feeling at certain times, sometimes when an issue is put out, sometimes when a conference is over, sometimes when we do a fundraiser, that you know, it really does matter.
[28:49.770 --> 28:53.810]  And that's based entirely on the feedback that we get, the support that we get.
[28:53.810 --> 28:59.670]  That when there's a good response here, it just feels like there are a lot of people out there and that they, you know, they are getting something out of it.
[28:59.730 --> 29:03.010]  And that gives us the strength to keep going and to keep moving forward.
[29:03.170 --> 29:07.810]  You know, when you get a lackadaisical type of response, it kind of like, you know, it affects you.
[29:07.810 --> 29:08.470]  It really does.
[29:08.690 --> 29:11.110]  It shouldn't, but it most definitely does.
[29:11.390 --> 29:11.810]  Oh, yes.
[29:12.730 --> 29:17.470]  212-209-2950, you have about 31 minutes to make us feel good tonight.
[29:17.750 --> 29:18.750]  Are the phones lighting up?
[29:18.750 --> 29:20.650]  We have two calls on the line right now.
[29:20.710 --> 29:21.730]  We had about five before.
[29:21.730 --> 29:23.410]  I know there's people still out there.
[29:23.550 --> 29:24.650]  Here's what I want to say.
[29:24.750 --> 29:24.930]  Okay.
[29:25.750 --> 29:27.990]  I'm going to challenge you people out there.
[29:28.210 --> 29:29.170]  I'm serious.
[29:30.810 --> 29:33.190]  Emmanuel wants $3,000 tonight.
[29:34.030 --> 29:38.590]  That's a very small amount to stay on top of what's going on in this world.
[29:38.990 --> 29:39.890]  It really is.
[29:40.930 --> 29:42.530]  It's actually a speck.
[29:43.490 --> 29:46.910]  I realize the economy really stinks right now, and it does.
[29:47.150 --> 29:48.870]  The economy is bad all over.
[29:52.670 --> 30:00.250]  But if you reach in your pockets, let's say you got five extra bucks, call them and give it to them.
[30:01.130 --> 30:04.550]  I'd like to see these people raise about $3,500 if not more tonight.
[30:04.850 --> 30:07.250]  Which we certainly can, and we have.
[30:07.510 --> 30:08.430]  I'll tell you something.
[30:09.110 --> 30:12.830]  If they go away because they can't afford this.
[30:12.930 --> 30:15.630]  You know, airtime, transmitters, all this stuff costs a lot of money.
[30:16.050 --> 30:18.150]  This station, WBA, has got engineers.
[30:18.150 --> 30:21.620]  They have, you know, all the electric bill to run this transmitter.
[30:23.320 --> 30:24.200]  It's expensive.
[30:24.620 --> 30:25.760]  It doesn't come cheap.
[30:25.960 --> 30:32.640]  I've been in broadcasting for a number of years, radio and television, and I pretty much know what goes into doing what he's doing.
[30:33.180 --> 30:38.360]  Not only that, this time that he's on the air is probably pretty much just a gift of love.
[30:38.880 --> 30:39.320]  Absolutely.
[30:39.600 --> 30:41.580]  He don't make any money doing what he's doing.
[30:41.580 --> 30:42.780]  He's paying to do what he's doing.
[30:43.240 --> 30:48.940]  And if this was a commercial radio station, this hour, we had three hours tonight, it would be a fortune.
[30:49.260 --> 30:51.840]  I mean, it would be worth so much money to do this.
[30:52.200 --> 30:53.980]  $3,000 certainly would not cover it.
[30:54.060 --> 30:59.300]  So what we're asking you to do is just help us live in fantasy land here and keep this place going.
[30:59.300 --> 31:01.480]  Because, you know, by all logic, it should not exist.
[31:01.700 --> 31:02.460]  It really shouldn't.
[31:02.460 --> 31:07.500]  Since 1960, people have been saying, how in the world could an FM radio station exist in the middle of the dial?
[31:07.740 --> 31:11.680]  50,000 watts, New York City, based solely on listener support.
[31:11.680 --> 31:12.520]  It makes no sense.
[31:12.620 --> 31:13.660]  It can't happen.
[31:14.140 --> 31:18.380]  On 99.5, yes, listener supported in New York.
[31:18.800 --> 31:20.680]  You know, I've got to tell you something.
[31:20.880 --> 31:23.060]  You really have a beautiful area out there.
[31:23.560 --> 31:24.440]  New York, you mean?
[31:24.620 --> 31:24.980]  Yes.
[31:25.160 --> 31:25.440]  Absolutely.
[31:25.860 --> 31:27.120]  It's a gorgeous place.
[31:27.220 --> 31:27.980]  It certainly is.
[31:28.180 --> 31:31.560]  You know, that's where all this terrorism took place originally.
[31:31.560 --> 31:32.740]  That's what started it.
[31:33.420 --> 31:34.900]  And you know something, people?
[31:35.580 --> 31:50.640]  With what Emmanuel does teach you in one way or the other, if hell does come to really raise in this country, this little bit of information in one way or the other is going to really add to your arsenal of survival.
[31:51.180 --> 31:52.240]  Remember that.
[31:53.540 --> 32:00.700]  Being on top, being knowledgeable, being educated takes the fear out of the unknown.
[32:01.280 --> 32:03.600]  And Emmanuel does that well.
[32:04.160 --> 32:05.760]  Well, I think you give me too much credit.
[32:05.940 --> 32:12.940]  But certainly a lot of people here are pitching in and helping to bring you alternative voices and ideas and things like that.
[32:13.000 --> 32:14.480]  And that's what makes WBAI tick.
[32:14.820 --> 32:17.600]  We have three calls on the line, 212-209-2950.
[32:18.400 --> 32:21.380]  Please, let's make that 5, 6, 7, whatever it takes.
[32:21.520 --> 32:25.380]  Let's get us over the goal that we want to reach for tonight.
[32:25.380 --> 32:27.680]  We're only on for another 28 minutes or so.
[32:27.800 --> 32:29.000]  Jeff, you have some people you want to thank, right?
[32:29.240 --> 32:29.440]  Yeah.
[32:29.540 --> 32:32.500]  And before I do that, there was something I wanted to comment to Dan about.
[32:32.740 --> 32:35.600]  He was talking before about how the print media can't go away.
[32:35.600 --> 32:37.400]  And it's really true.
[32:37.740 --> 32:47.120]  Even the radio show, what we post later, if it isn't done, if it isn't put out now and supported, there's nothing to put on a web later.
[32:47.660 --> 32:49.380]  You have to get it out.
[32:49.440 --> 32:54.060]  You have to publish the magazines and do those things so that there's something to put up to the web.
[32:54.340 --> 32:55.900]  You have to treat the roots.
[32:56.020 --> 32:58.520]  Otherwise, if this dies, the rest of the tree goes as well.
[32:58.620 --> 32:59.580]  That's a very nice analogy.
[32:59.760 --> 33:00.120]  I like that.
[33:00.340 --> 33:00.880]  No, thank you.
[33:01.040 --> 33:02.980]  212-209-2950.
[33:02.980 --> 33:09.660]  So if you like that analogy, please call in and pledge whatever it is you can afford to this radio station.
[33:09.820 --> 33:10.320]  Keep us going.
[33:10.420 --> 33:16.600]  Again, we have VCDs, video on CDs of the H2K2 conference.
[33:16.600 --> 33:19.120]  We're offering three of those for a pledge of $75.
[33:19.660 --> 33:27.700]  For $125, you can get the brand new 2600 hooded sweatshirt in addition to the three video discs of the conference.
[33:27.700 --> 33:32.920]  And everybody who calls in and pledges $25 or over will get an off-the-hook t-shirt.
[33:33.240 --> 33:39.500]  And, of course, that's in addition to any WBAI premiums you might get such as the folio, which will be mailed to you telling you what's on the air.
[33:40.240 --> 33:51.560]  Yeah, the thanks that we want to give out are to Cedric in the Bronx here, Gerald in Brooklyn, we've got William.
[33:52.360 --> 33:53.620]  I'm going to read it just that way.
[33:53.920 --> 33:54.380]  What, William?
[33:54.480 --> 33:55.380]  No location?
[33:55.900 --> 33:56.340]  Okay.
[33:56.600 --> 33:56.920]  All right.
[33:57.040 --> 33:59.180]  I'm trying to follow the little notes here.
[33:59.580 --> 34:03.000]  We've got Chris in Newcastle, Delaware.
[34:03.380 --> 34:03.820]  Wow.
[34:03.920 --> 34:04.560]  How about that, Delaware?
[34:04.680 --> 34:04.860]  That's the first for that state.
[34:05.100 --> 34:07.480]  Okay, we're waiting for Delaware to clock in, and here they are.
[34:07.660 --> 34:08.200]  Okay, that's good.
[34:08.200 --> 34:09.360]  How many states do we have now?
[34:09.800 --> 34:11.060]  Dave from Hoboken.
[34:11.280 --> 34:11.680]  Hoboken.
[34:11.860 --> 34:12.360]  There you go.
[34:12.500 --> 34:13.680]  I don't have that tally sheet.
[34:13.680 --> 34:15.120]  That's not a state, but it's almost a state.
[34:15.340 --> 34:17.140]  But I'm just trying to...
[34:17.140 --> 34:18.560]  You can see Hoboken from here.
[34:18.720 --> 34:19.180]  That's true.
[34:19.320 --> 34:19.440]  Yeah.
[34:19.700 --> 34:20.600]  It's getting there.
[34:20.740 --> 34:21.320]  The card says...
[34:21.320 --> 34:22.780]  It almost looks as big as New York now.
[34:22.980 --> 34:24.900]  The card says just say Dave from Hoboken.
[34:25.040 --> 34:25.600]  Okay, okay.
[34:27.440 --> 34:28.760]  Susan, Bayshore, New York.
[34:28.900 --> 34:29.220]  All right.
[34:29.780 --> 34:31.800]  And then here's another first.
[34:32.060 --> 34:36.940]  We've got Paul from Stokesdale, North Carolina.
[34:37.200 --> 34:38.060]  All right, North Carolina.
[34:38.200 --> 34:42.080]  You know, one thing I have not heard is anybody from outside the United States.
[34:42.280 --> 34:42.920]  No, not yet.
[34:42.960 --> 34:43.920]  What's up with that?
[34:44.060 --> 34:45.060]  There's another note here.
[34:45.320 --> 34:47.000]  Random sample says hi to you.
[34:47.300 --> 34:47.560]  Okay.
[34:47.980 --> 34:49.020]  Hello, random sample.
[34:50.140 --> 34:54.180]  And for those of you outside the country, again, you know, the country code is one.
[34:54.500 --> 34:58.040]  The phone number is 212-209-2950.
[34:58.420 --> 34:59.780]  Please give us a call.
[34:59.880 --> 35:01.060]  We only have a few minutes left.
[35:01.580 --> 35:07.420]  One thing I'd like to do is play another excerpt from one of the panels that we're offering.
[35:07.420 --> 35:09.180]  In fact, we're offering all the panels.
[35:09.420 --> 35:14.080]  Just go to www.h2k2.net to see a full listing of everything that we have.
[35:14.660 --> 35:18.240]  But this is from a panel that Bernie S.
[35:18.420 --> 35:20.800]  was on along with Shapeshifter.
[35:22.000 --> 35:24.420]  And it's called Abuse of Authority.
[35:24.420 --> 35:26.120]  We're just going to listen to a couple of minutes of this.
[35:26.420 --> 35:30.840]  And then we'll be taking your phone calls, 212-209-2950.
[35:31.000 --> 35:33.280]  Actually, we're taking your phone calls now for pledges.
[35:33.500 --> 35:33.620]  Yeah.
[35:33.760 --> 35:35.760]  Dan, were you going to be able to hang around for this?
[35:35.900 --> 35:36.760]  Yeah, I can hang around for that.
[35:36.780 --> 35:37.160]  Oh, great.
[35:37.300 --> 35:37.440]  Okay.
[35:37.440 --> 35:39.500]  We'll talk to you right after we play this excerpt.
[35:39.560 --> 35:41.260]  We have five calls on the line.
[35:41.640 --> 35:43.200]  I'm not sure if we have enough volunteers down there.
[35:43.220 --> 35:45.520]  We might have to send some people down the hall to pick up phones.
[35:46.060 --> 35:48.560]  If the phone keeps ringing, please do not give up.
[35:48.560 --> 35:51.740]  It means that people are running around frantically trying to answer all the phones.
[35:51.800 --> 35:52.260]  And that's good.
[35:52.260 --> 35:54.760]  You know, when they start running into walls and things like that, that's...
[35:54.760 --> 35:59.980]  We don't want anybody to get hurt, but we do want people to be active and to be trying to answer as many phone calls as they can.
[35:59.980 --> 36:02.380]  That way, we'll get above the goal that we set for ourselves.
[36:03.220 --> 36:05.060]  And you can help us get there.
[36:05.340 --> 36:07.260]  212-209-2950.
[36:08.020 --> 36:11.320]  Let's take a listen to this panel from the H2K2 conference.
[36:11.560 --> 36:12.080]  Some of these things.
[36:12.240 --> 36:15.040]  Did you have some examples of the things we just went over, Terrence?
[36:15.040 --> 36:16.640]  Especially when the...
[36:16.640 --> 36:20.680]  I was picked up by... or tackled, let's say, by like...
[36:20.680 --> 36:23.700]  Oh no, 12 police officers from the Philadelphia police.
[36:24.120 --> 36:27.440]  The day after all these protests that I supposedly led.
[36:28.360 --> 36:31.020]  Which it turned out later that I wasn't actually at the protest.
[36:31.160 --> 36:32.620]  They were accused of me leading.
[36:32.860 --> 36:36.180]  Which consisted of a bunch of people who were sitting down the street.
[36:36.180 --> 36:40.300]  And when they were asked three times by the law enforcement to move, they did.
[36:41.740 --> 36:43.660]  So there wasn't actually any crime there.
[36:43.680 --> 36:47.640]  But that was still enough to arrest me and put me under $500,000 bail.
[36:47.740 --> 36:51.500]  But before then, I was put in an interrogation room in the homicide division.
[36:51.800 --> 36:53.660]  And they were trying to intimidate me.
[36:54.320 --> 36:55.920]  Obviously, a homicide division.
[36:56.180 --> 36:57.080]  Were you intimidated?
[36:58.040 --> 36:59.260]  A little, you know.
[36:59.260 --> 37:07.780]  But, you know, there's, you know, some legal people who are working with all the protestors before the RNC protests.
[37:08.060 --> 37:13.240]  And, you know, one of our best advice is, I would like to... remain silent.
[37:13.240 --> 37:14.240]  I would like to see a lawyer.
[37:14.820 --> 37:19.000]  If you say that for about eight hours straight, they're not going to ask you too many questions.
[37:20.180 --> 37:20.620]  So...
[37:20.620 --> 37:21.540]  Very stubborn.
[37:22.380 --> 37:23.260]  You know, that's...
[37:24.000 --> 37:25.100]  You know, they...
[37:25.100 --> 37:28.580]  Just speak to a lawyer before you say anything to law enforcement.
[37:28.580 --> 37:29.580]  Even if it's minor.
[37:30.720 --> 37:33.020]  You know, I didn't even give them my name for eight hours.
[37:33.820 --> 37:34.140]  So...
[37:34.140 --> 37:35.080]  Alex, what's the...
[37:35.080 --> 37:36.460]  You might be able to just head some light on...
[37:36.460 --> 37:36.820]  What's the law?
[37:36.960 --> 37:41.320]  If you say, I want to speak to my lawyer, can questioning continue?
[37:41.500 --> 37:49.460]  Can they continue to, you know, just berate and nag you and threaten you for the next eight hours?
[37:49.580 --> 37:50.980]  If you say, I want to talk to my lawyer.
[37:51.100 --> 37:52.600]  I want a phone call to talk to my lawyer.
[37:52.800 --> 37:55.620]  Do they have to stop and let you make that phone call and talk to your lawyer?
[37:55.620 --> 37:58.440]  Or can they continue to ask you questions for the next week?
[37:58.700 --> 37:59.880]  They're supposed to stop.
[38:00.060 --> 38:02.140]  But what they'll try to do is say, well, you don't really need...
[38:02.140 --> 38:03.940]  They can tell you, you don't need to talk to a lawyer.
[38:04.360 --> 38:07.560]  You know, you can just like, you know, like we said before, you can make this a lot easier to find yourself.
[38:08.120 --> 38:09.460]  You don't need to talk to a lawyer.
[38:09.860 --> 38:11.420]  You know, it's going to take hours for them to get here.
[38:11.520 --> 38:14.760]  And, you know, if you just talk to us now, we'll get you out of here as soon as we can.
[38:15.340 --> 38:15.780]  What you...
[38:15.780 --> 38:18.220]  Most importantly, just keep asking for a lawyer.
[38:18.220 --> 38:20.020]  Don't make any statements to the police.
[38:21.300 --> 38:25.820]  A lot of times, police officers will say, well, I'm not responsible for getting you an attorney.
[38:26.200 --> 38:29.380]  Well, you tell them that you want to talk to the person who is responsible.
[38:29.640 --> 38:31.260]  Just keep demanding an attorney.
[38:31.460 --> 38:33.080]  That's one of the most important things to do.
[38:33.200 --> 38:35.500]  Don't make any statements without an attorney present.
[38:36.480 --> 38:41.260]  Another really important thing is don't try to explain to them why you are not making statements.
[38:41.620 --> 38:42.820]  Don't make up stories.
[38:43.040 --> 38:45.160]  Don't make up any explanations why you're not talking.
[38:45.580 --> 38:47.740]  Regardless of their questions, just remain silent.
[38:47.860 --> 38:48.840]  It's your right to be silent.
[38:48.940 --> 38:49.880]  You should exercise it.
[38:50.920 --> 38:55.000]  If you start making up stories about why you're being silent, they're going to remember that.
[38:55.180 --> 38:56.160]  They're going to have it on tape.
[38:56.280 --> 38:57.040]  They're going to write it down.
[38:57.420 --> 39:00.220]  And most likely, it can come back to haunt you if you go to trial.
[39:00.520 --> 39:04.840]  Or maybe you make some kind of contradictory statement where you weren't telling the whole story.
[39:05.180 --> 39:08.480]  And then if you go to trial, you'll look like a liar in front of the jury.
[39:08.480 --> 39:09.780]  So be silent.
[39:09.940 --> 39:10.880]  Keep asking for an attorney.
[39:11.080 --> 39:11.680]  Be persistent.
[39:11.900 --> 39:12.920]  They have to give you one.
[39:13.140 --> 39:14.920]  Don't be intimidated by their questions.
[39:15.100 --> 39:15.780]  It's very intimidating.
[39:16.160 --> 39:17.960]  I was in a situation myself.
[39:18.220 --> 39:21.160]  And you get flustered.
[39:21.160 --> 39:22.580]  You don't know how to handle yourself.
[39:22.580 --> 39:23.880]  You want to explain to them.
[39:24.240 --> 39:27.360]  Even if you're totally innocent, just be quiet.
[39:27.500 --> 39:28.120]  Get an attorney.
[39:28.320 --> 39:31.680]  If you can't afford an attorney, they'll have to provide one for you.
[39:32.020 --> 39:33.880]  You may sit in there a couple hours.
[39:34.100 --> 39:35.300]  It's not fun.
[39:35.800 --> 39:37.540]  But we'll get to questions at the end.
[39:37.540 --> 39:37.960]  I'm sorry.
[39:38.080 --> 39:39.080]  What are the...
[39:39.080 --> 39:42.000]  I imagine these laws vary from state to state also.
[39:42.400 --> 39:44.080]  But what's the timeframe?
[39:44.280 --> 39:45.580]  If you ask the speaker to your...
[39:45.580 --> 39:46.880]  I want to talk to my lawyer.
[39:48.540 --> 39:49.380]  Can they...
[39:49.380 --> 39:50.920]  How long can they drag that out?
[39:51.220 --> 39:52.920]  They can drag it out for a long time.
[39:53.120 --> 39:53.880]  What's a long time?
[39:54.460 --> 39:57.760]  I would imagine that they could keep you for overnight.
[39:57.920 --> 39:59.180]  I mean, it depends on when you get arrested.
[40:00.500 --> 40:00.940]  But...
[40:00.940 --> 40:01.380]  What's that?
[40:01.620 --> 40:01.860]  Three days.
[40:02.460 --> 40:05.820]  Well, yeah, you can be arranged in three days, too.
[40:08.300 --> 40:09.900]  Okay, we're going to cut away at this point.
[40:10.060 --> 40:13.540]  Because that's where discussions get started in that particular panel.
[40:13.660 --> 40:14.980]  That was abuse of authority.
[40:15.780 --> 40:17.460]  And, Bernie, you were on that panel, right?
[40:17.460 --> 40:20.800]  I was, although my pot was just turned down, so I couldn't hear any of that.
[40:20.960 --> 40:22.480]  But I do remember it pretty well.
[40:22.780 --> 40:23.440]  You couldn't hear that.
[40:23.500 --> 40:24.060]  I wonder why not.
[40:24.720 --> 40:25.560]  That's awfully strange.
[40:25.640 --> 40:26.160]  That should have worked.
[40:26.880 --> 40:29.300]  Okay, so you guys couldn't hear what we just put on.
[40:29.340 --> 40:30.920]  That's unfortunate.
[40:30.940 --> 40:34.440]  But if you pledge, you can ask for that VCD.
[40:34.660 --> 40:36.640]  And then you can hear it on your own CD player.
[40:36.680 --> 40:38.400]  On your own video player, that is.
[40:38.760 --> 40:39.120]  Great.
[40:39.460 --> 40:40.140]  I'll do that.
[40:40.140 --> 40:47.820]  But, yeah, it was really something watching shapeshifter Terence up there, talking about what happened to him.
[40:47.960 --> 40:50.380]  He still is our layout artist.
[40:50.720 --> 41:06.580]  And a couple of summers ago, right after H2K in 2000, he was arrested during the convention, Republican National Convention in Philadelphia, and held on $500,000 bail.
[41:06.580 --> 41:10.000]  And just basically accused of being an organizer.
[41:10.700 --> 41:21.920]  And it's so bizarre to see somebody you know being thought of in such a way, and being treated as a mastermind of sorts, when you know that there's nothing further from the truth.
[41:22.720 --> 41:24.200]  You almost get used to it.
[41:24.280 --> 41:27.980]  You almost get used to people misinterpreting facts this way.
[41:28.440 --> 41:34.300]  And you see situations like what happened to you, what happened to shapeshifter, what happened to Kevin, what happened to fiber optic.
[41:34.300 --> 41:35.740]  I mean, the list just keeps going on and on.
[41:35.840 --> 41:38.120]  And, of course, Dan Morgan, you know...
[41:38.120 --> 41:38.660]  You want to...
[41:38.660 --> 41:39.140]  Emmanuel?
[41:39.340 --> 41:39.580]  Yes.
[41:39.680 --> 41:42.780]  You want a good example of what's happening in America?
[41:43.020 --> 41:43.400]  Mm-hmm.
[41:44.400 --> 41:48.920]  In proof that you can say only what they want you to say.
[41:49.360 --> 41:51.580]  And that freedom of speech really don't exist.
[41:52.360 --> 41:55.120]  First of all, folks, again, I'm a Vietnam veteran.
[41:56.200 --> 41:58.960]  I believe in freedom of press, freedom of speech.
[41:58.960 --> 42:02.600]  I believe in the Constitution of the United States more than you'll ever believe.
[42:04.220 --> 42:23.660]  But during this last scenario of a war, Iraqi freedom or whatever they called it, I believe it was Iraqi freedom, several motion picture stars, including a music group called the Dixie Chicks, spoke against the war.
[42:25.080 --> 42:30.400]  Well, first of all, if you live in America, you support your president, no matter how good or bad you support him.
[42:31.340 --> 42:34.760]  And you support the people that are fighting for your freedoms.
[42:35.840 --> 42:37.440]  Well, they spoke against us.
[42:39.500 --> 42:42.400]  Now, these people are blacklisted.
[42:44.120 --> 42:45.480]  They're pretty well done.
[42:45.680 --> 42:52.620]  The Motion Picture Association says they're not going to, you know, adhere to any blacklisting of any stars.
[42:53.020 --> 42:56.960]  But basically, look at the people that were doing ads.
[42:56.960 --> 43:00.540]  I can't remember their names off the top of my head, because I don't watch a lot of television.
[43:02.220 --> 43:03.740]  But I can't think of it right now.
[43:03.840 --> 43:10.160]  But anyway, several people who were doing advertising, you know, they were working for agencies advertising this or that.
[43:10.540 --> 43:11.080]  They're done.
[43:11.260 --> 43:12.040]  They're all over with.
[43:13.780 --> 43:15.180]  So they spoke against it.
[43:15.220 --> 43:16.660]  This is America, the land of the free.
[43:16.800 --> 43:17.880]  You can say what you want.
[43:18.400 --> 43:19.520]  But these people are all done.
[43:19.580 --> 43:20.520]  They're not working anymore.
[43:22.600 --> 43:24.660]  Emanuel will probably know who more of these people are than I do.
[43:24.720 --> 43:25.180]  Oh, yeah.
[43:25.260 --> 43:26.460]  I know quite a few of them.
[43:26.680 --> 43:29.280]  I'm not quite sure what you're saying, though, about that.
[43:29.280 --> 43:33.380]  What I'm basically saying is, because they said, no, this war is wrong.
[43:33.560 --> 43:35.640]  President Bush, you shouldn't do this.
[43:35.840 --> 43:36.120]  Mm-hmm.
[43:37.200 --> 43:41.880]  The Dixie Chicks said, we're not happy to be from the same state President Bush is.
[43:42.080 --> 43:42.280]  Right.
[43:43.060 --> 43:45.700]  Well, these people are throwing their CDs in the garbage.
[43:46.320 --> 43:48.400]  They're saying, yes, that was bad.
[43:48.400 --> 43:49.520]  You should have not done that.
[43:49.860 --> 43:55.460]  But in essence, these people are all losing their jobs because they didn't say they believed it was okay.
[43:56.360 --> 43:56.740]  Mm-hmm.
[43:56.740 --> 44:06.040]  What I'm saying is that they spoke out, they spoke their feelings, and now, ultimately, they're going to pay a big price, which is freedom of speech.
[44:06.200 --> 44:06.340]  Right.
[44:06.340 --> 44:06.820]  They're done.
[44:07.260 --> 44:08.220]  They're taboo.
[44:08.340 --> 44:09.100]  They're blacklisted.
[44:09.600 --> 44:09.700]  Mm-hmm.
[44:09.740 --> 44:13.040]  Now, granted, I probably wouldn't go out and buy a Dixie Chicks CD.
[44:13.060 --> 44:15.940]  If I had any, I probably would let them collect dust.
[44:17.140 --> 44:23.460]  The point I'm making is that if you don't say what they want you to say, you are screwed.
[44:23.700 --> 44:23.940]  Right.
[44:24.140 --> 44:24.300]  Right.
[44:25.080 --> 44:26.340]  Well, you know, that's...
[44:26.340 --> 44:28.500]  You know, that's wrong.
[44:28.740 --> 44:32.060]  And that's something that we see quite a bit of, but you know what's interesting about that?
[44:32.200 --> 44:38.400]  What's interesting about that is, in the case of the Dixie Chicks, they actually had a pretty good turnout at that concert not too long ago.
[44:38.900 --> 44:45.860]  The people who were leading the charge against them were organizations like Clear Channel, the ones who own all the radio stations.
[44:45.980 --> 44:50.080]  So the radio stations will stop playing them, but the fans will still exist.
[44:50.220 --> 44:53.380]  So, you know, the fans are irrelevant as far as the radio stations are concerned.
[44:53.740 --> 44:58.140]  You know, they can control who becomes a star and who does not become a star, who gets airplay and who doesn't.
[44:58.300 --> 44:58.400]  Right.
[44:58.560 --> 45:06.640]  And the Clear Channel Corporation had a lot to gain by the upcoming decisions of this administration with regard to radio stations they can own.
[45:07.300 --> 45:11.480]  Bernie Emanuel, my point here is, this is America.
[45:11.700 --> 45:13.920]  You have the right to say what you want to say.
[45:14.100 --> 45:18.380]  As long as you're not threatening anyone, you're not trying to harm anyone.
[45:18.380 --> 45:19.780]  They didn't try to harm no one.
[45:19.900 --> 45:22.860]  They just disagreed with what was happening.
[45:23.320 --> 45:27.460]  You know, our Commander-in-Chief's leadership, they disagreed with that.
[45:27.680 --> 45:28.200]  Fine.
[45:28.520 --> 45:29.300]  That's okay.
[45:30.100 --> 45:33.980]  But don't say you can't make a living here because you don't agree.
[45:34.260 --> 45:34.760]  Right, right.
[45:34.940 --> 45:35.360]  Precisely.
[45:35.540 --> 45:39.280]  Don't say that you can't publish a magazine because you think it's malicious.
[45:39.680 --> 45:40.440]  Read the darn thing.
[45:40.540 --> 45:42.920]  Try to understand it before you go put your thumb on somebody.
[45:43.340 --> 45:44.920]  Nobody's out here killing anyone.
[45:45.660 --> 45:48.540]  You know, they're trying to educate people.
[45:48.920 --> 45:53.840]  Sure, their ideas in our hearts were probably wrong, but they believed it was okay.
[45:53.840 --> 45:55.880]  So, they didn't draw a gun.
[45:55.980 --> 45:56.880]  They didn't attack America.
[45:56.880 --> 45:58.700]  They just said what we were doing was wrong.
[45:59.080 --> 46:02.300]  But, of course, there's no such thing as French fries anymore either.
[46:02.440 --> 46:03.460]  Well, anyway...
[46:03.460 --> 46:04.660]  You know what I'm saying?
[46:04.900 --> 46:06.260]  It's just the way it is.
[46:06.620 --> 46:07.340]  It's sad.
[46:07.560 --> 46:08.880]  So, people...
[46:09.460 --> 46:18.620]  I can't stay around much longer, but what I'm going to say is that please take care of the information you have coming to you.
[46:18.620 --> 46:24.320]  And the way to do that is support in one way or another what you have here.
[46:24.460 --> 46:26.040]  You have WBAI.
[46:26.040 --> 46:27.540]  You have Emanuel Goldstein.
[46:27.620 --> 46:28.420]  You have Bernie S.
[46:28.520 --> 46:29.740]  We just broke 3,000.
[46:29.940 --> 46:32.120]  You have these guys, hey...
[46:32.120 --> 46:33.800]  Okay, we're at 3160, in fact.
[46:33.920 --> 46:35.820]  ...doing these things for you.
[46:36.420 --> 46:37.800]  Why are they doing them?
[46:38.020 --> 46:41.320]  Because, really, quite frankly, I know Emanuel Goldstein.
[46:41.320 --> 46:44.500]  This guy cares about people.
[46:44.740 --> 46:46.160]  I've heard him on his cell phone.
[46:46.300 --> 46:47.600]  Don't know who in the heck he was talking to.
[46:48.480 --> 46:49.380]  His cell phone...
[46:49.380 --> 46:52.160]  That's another thing I've got to talk to you about, Emanuel, your cell phone.
[46:52.320 --> 46:52.860]  Uh-huh, what about it?
[46:52.900 --> 46:55.400]  When we're visiting, you've got to take that thing and throw it across the bar.
[46:55.520 --> 46:56.340]  Oh, believe me, I want to.
[46:56.720 --> 47:02.620]  Anyway, he sits there, and every time he answers that phone, his first question is, Hi, how are you?
[47:03.360 --> 47:04.380]  Wrong or right, Bernie?
[47:05.360 --> 47:05.720]  How?
[47:05.860 --> 47:06.440]  He cares.
[47:06.860 --> 47:07.180]  Huh?
[47:07.900 --> 47:08.480]  He cares.
[47:08.620 --> 47:09.520]  I mean, I'm really asking.
[47:09.540 --> 47:10.860]  I really want to know how somebody is.
[47:10.920 --> 47:15.340]  I called this guy when I was going through all this hell with DirecTV.
[47:16.560 --> 47:17.960]  Hi, how are you?
[47:19.120 --> 47:20.280]  He does this with anybody.
[47:20.280 --> 47:20.920]  He's calling.
[47:21.100 --> 47:22.420]  He cares about you.
[47:22.420 --> 47:24.460]  Sometimes I call total strangers and ask them that.
[47:24.700 --> 47:25.480]  I know you do.
[47:25.980 --> 47:28.940]  That's why I'm saying, get to the businesses.
[47:28.940 --> 47:31.900]  No, you do care, and that's the beauty of you guys.
[47:32.060 --> 47:33.420]  The beauty is you do care.
[47:33.580 --> 47:34.640]  You want people to know.
[47:34.940 --> 47:44.640]  And again, the more you know, the better prepared you are, the less spectacular a disaster or something that goes weird in your life will be.
[47:44.940 --> 47:45.620]  That's right.
[47:45.780 --> 47:46.080]  That's right.
[47:46.100 --> 47:47.720]  You only fear the unknown.
[47:48.420 --> 47:49.320]  By the way, Emmanuel?
[47:49.580 --> 47:50.100]  Yes, Bernie?
[47:50.940 --> 47:51.880]  Some good news.
[47:52.700 --> 48:01.820]  When we were just listening, or you folks were listening to Shapeshifter, our layout artist for 2600, talked during the Abusive Authority panel.
[48:02.040 --> 48:06.320]  He was not out of the woods yet with his whole legal ordeal with the city of Philadelphia.
[48:06.320 --> 48:06.840]  Mm-hmm.
[48:08.220 --> 48:23.080]  But it was just two or three months ago that he finally came out completely victorious with the city of Philadelphia, and the city had to actually make good on its errors.
[48:23.280 --> 48:24.240]  Yeah, it's amazing.
[48:24.420 --> 48:27.280]  It's amazing how much he gained just by fighting back.
[48:27.280 --> 48:28.840]  So many other people wouldn't have done that.
[48:29.300 --> 48:31.740]  And he really gained a lot of respect for somebody by doing that.
[48:31.780 --> 48:33.000]  Was all the bail returned?
[48:33.720 --> 48:34.620]  Was it all returned?
[48:34.980 --> 48:35.980]  It finally was.
[48:35.980 --> 48:38.180]  It was one of the amazing things with this whole thing.
[48:38.600 --> 48:46.120]  His friends, you, me, and other people helped get him out because we knew he was unjustly imprisoned.
[48:46.780 --> 48:56.680]  And the city of Philadelphia, when they released him on bail and when he won several rounds before it was finally all over, they wouldn't give back all the bail money.
[48:56.780 --> 48:59.500]  They kept like 20% of it as a service charge.
[48:59.600 --> 49:00.740]  Yeah, and that's standard practice.
[49:00.740 --> 49:02.840]  And he was found not guilty.
[49:03.580 --> 49:11.720]  And he had to sue the city just to get back all the bail money that they were keeping a large chunk of it just as a service charge, even though he was found not guilty.
[49:11.880 --> 49:12.520]  It was just ridiculous.
[49:12.860 --> 49:14.160]  I mean, do people know this?
[49:14.240 --> 49:17.220]  Do people know that they do things like this when you're found not guilty?
[49:17.220 --> 49:20.060]  You still have to pay for that right to be found not guilty?
[49:20.060 --> 49:23.620]  I mean, if that's a fact you just learned, then you learned something from us.
[49:24.200 --> 49:27.580]  And, you know, odds are likely you're going to learn something else.
[49:27.680 --> 49:28.580]  So please support us.
[49:28.700 --> 49:29.620]  Please keep this place going.
[49:29.740 --> 49:31.560]  212-209-2950.
[49:31.740 --> 49:34.240]  I got to say, we have like a last minute flurry here.
[49:34.360 --> 49:36.580]  We're up to 3340, it looks like.
[49:36.680 --> 49:38.000]  The last zero is obscured.
[49:38.140 --> 49:40.300]  If whoever is holding that camera could maybe move it over a little bit.
[49:40.380 --> 49:41.620]  I'm just seeing 334 there.
[49:41.760 --> 49:44.160]  So either we have $334 or we have 3340.
[49:44.720 --> 49:46.060]  Or maybe we have $33,400.
[49:46.720 --> 49:47.620]  That's possible, too.
[49:48.480 --> 49:50.340]  But we just have to move that over just a little bit.
[49:51.040 --> 49:53.260]  Please give us a call in the last minutes that we have.
[49:53.460 --> 49:55.440]  212-209-2950.
[49:55.640 --> 49:57.460]  We've heard a lot of voices in this three-hour period.
[49:57.660 --> 50:02.280]  And I think, you know, a lot of them are very courageous voices for speaking out, for standing up for what they believe in.
[50:03.320 --> 50:10.200]  And I'm really honored to be among this crowd of people, to be able to talk back and forth, you know, about all kinds of different issues.
[50:10.400 --> 50:11.940]  I mean, I know we're not going to agree on everything.
[50:12.120 --> 50:15.460]  There's going to be all kinds of different viewpoints and backgrounds and things like that.
[50:15.460 --> 50:16.580]  But that's part of the beauty of it.
[50:16.640 --> 50:18.040]  That's what makes it worthwhile.
[50:18.040 --> 50:22.200]  That's how you, you know, stand up for what you believe in, learn what someone else is thinking.
[50:22.980 --> 50:24.180]  We can't give that up.
[50:24.240 --> 50:28.720]  We have to always value the importance of free speech.
[50:28.820 --> 50:31.840]  And that's what you're doing by calling 212-209-2950.
[50:34.200 --> 50:34.680]  All right.
[50:34.740 --> 50:36.160]  I think we've had things to say.
[50:36.680 --> 50:37.120]  All right.
[50:37.320 --> 50:39.980]  It looks like Dan was going to be closer to correcting it.
[50:39.980 --> 50:43.900]  He wanted to see $35 and we're less than $200 away.
[50:43.900 --> 50:45.240]  And we have four calls on the line.
[50:45.380 --> 50:50.380]  So please, in the last few minutes, 212-209-2950, five calls on the line.
[50:50.460 --> 50:50.840]  This is great.
[50:50.940 --> 50:53.420]  It's great to see such a show of support.
[50:53.540 --> 51:02.920]  And believe me, it's going to make us all feel so much better that, you know, we didn't spend three hours tonight just, you know, yammering away and, you know, begging for money and things like that.
[51:03.020 --> 51:06.420]  It's, you know, it takes a lot out of you to do this.
[51:06.420 --> 51:17.100]  And it's really important to know that there's somebody on the other end that cares that, you know, is going to be there in the weeks ahead to share stories, listen to things, and just be a part of the whole process.
[51:17.100 --> 51:18.300]  It really makes it all worthwhile.
[51:18.660 --> 51:19.160]  I know.
[51:19.280 --> 51:19.700]  I'm sweating.
[51:19.700 --> 51:23.140]  We'll be back on the air again a week from, two weeks from tonight?
[51:23.220 --> 51:26.060]  Two weeks from tonight, yes, at our usual time slot, seven to eight.
[51:26.580 --> 51:35.060]  And we'll be able to cover some current events in the world of technology and law and hacking and that sort of thing and take some phone calls.
[51:35.060 --> 51:35.220]  Yeah.
[51:35.220 --> 51:38.260]  No doubt there will be many such developments as there always are.
[51:38.320 --> 51:39.500]  Who knows what the color will be by then?
[51:39.560 --> 51:40.420]  Maybe it will be red.
[51:40.500 --> 51:41.240]  Maybe it will be blue.
[51:41.980 --> 51:42.620]  Nobody knows.
[51:43.160 --> 51:43.480]  Orange.
[51:43.860 --> 51:44.180]  Orange.
[51:44.280 --> 51:45.000]  Well, we're orange now.
[51:45.500 --> 51:45.820]  Yes.
[51:46.360 --> 51:47.740]  Now, Jeff, you have a couple more people to thank.
[51:47.780 --> 51:49.200]  Yeah, I've got a bunch here.
[51:49.200 --> 51:52.960]  I've got Aaron from Upper Nyack, New York.
[51:53.080 --> 51:53.340]  All right.
[51:53.440 --> 51:53.840]  Thank you, Aaron.
[51:54.200 --> 51:57.020]  At the bottom here, it says Boston 2600 Group.
[51:57.140 --> 51:57.720]  I don't know why.
[51:58.320 --> 52:05.100]  Maybe it's somebody who went up to Boston and joined the Boston 2600 Group and now is back here recovering from that experience.
[52:05.440 --> 52:07.360]  Benjamin from Old Bethpage, New York.
[52:07.500 --> 52:07.980]  Thank you, Benjamin.
[52:08.140 --> 52:08.760]  Old Bethpage.
[52:09.440 --> 52:10.900]  Dimitri, Queens, New York.
[52:11.220 --> 52:11.820]  Thank you, Dimitri.
[52:13.260 --> 52:14.600]  Mark, Hastings, New York.
[52:14.760 --> 52:15.640]  Mark from Hastings.
[52:15.760 --> 52:16.380]  Thank you very much.
[52:16.640 --> 52:18.320]  Anthony, Jersey City, New Jersey.
[52:18.320 --> 52:21.280]  I wonder if that's Hastings on the Hudson or just plain old Hastings.
[52:22.240 --> 52:23.400]  Was that Anthony from New Jersey?
[52:23.600 --> 52:25.940]  That was Anthony from Jersey City, New Jersey.
[52:26.080 --> 52:26.220]  Okay.
[52:26.680 --> 52:27.340]  Thank you very much.
[52:27.480 --> 52:29.420]  We've got Michael from West Orange, New Jersey.
[52:29.620 --> 52:30.380]  Michael, West Orange.
[52:30.480 --> 52:31.560]  A lot of New Jersey people tonight.
[52:31.840 --> 52:31.980]  Yeah.
[52:32.080 --> 52:32.640]  Thank you, guys.
[52:33.060 --> 52:33.820]  My people.
[52:34.540 --> 52:36.000]  Emily, New York, New York.
[52:36.000 --> 52:36.780]  Thank you, Emily.
[52:37.480 --> 52:37.880]  Angela...
[52:37.880 --> 52:38.460]  Excuse me.
[52:38.600 --> 52:38.960]  Andrea.
[52:40.280 --> 52:40.680]  Ames.
[52:41.700 --> 52:42.100]  Iowa.
[52:42.420 --> 52:43.080]  It's not Iowa.
[52:43.180 --> 52:43.440]  I-A.
[52:43.780 --> 52:44.740]  I-A is Iowa.
[52:44.960 --> 52:46.160]  Iowa's really coming through tonight.
[52:46.340 --> 52:47.340]  Thank you so much for that.
[52:47.760 --> 52:49.000]  I have family in Ames, Iowa.
[52:49.320 --> 52:51.720]  Well, maybe this is one of your distant relations.
[52:52.040 --> 52:52.460]  It could be.
[52:52.600 --> 52:55.100]  But I'm amazed by how many people have been calling in from Iowa.
[52:55.100 --> 53:03.880]  It's almost like, you know, you would think, you know, based on what people say about the rest of the country that, oh, you know, no one's going to listen to WBAI in Iowa.
[53:04.140 --> 53:04.500]  Wrong.
[53:04.720 --> 53:07.060]  Lots of people care about what's going on, you know?
[53:07.160 --> 53:09.620]  It's really important to everybody around the world.
[53:09.780 --> 53:13.840]  And we know there are people streaming this show right now in Amsterdam.
[53:14.200 --> 53:14.700]  That's right.
[53:14.820 --> 53:15.220]  That's right.
[53:15.240 --> 53:17.100]  Although I don't see anybody calling from Amsterdam.
[53:17.100 --> 53:17.440]  Yeah.
[53:17.660 --> 53:18.920]  What's up with that, you know?
[53:19.040 --> 53:20.120]  Everybody's calling from the United States.
[53:20.120 --> 53:20.660]  That's fine.
[53:20.660 --> 53:22.700]  But we know there's listeners in other parts of the world, too.
[53:22.700 --> 53:25.240]  And your euros are just as good as our dollars.
[53:25.760 --> 53:26.220]  Let's see.
[53:26.320 --> 53:28.280]  We've got Bill here from Selden, New York.
[53:28.460 --> 53:29.020]  Selden, yes.
[53:29.260 --> 53:29.640]  Thank you, Bill.
[53:30.760 --> 53:31.480]  Karen from...
[53:31.480 --> 53:32.400]  That's the Bill I know from Selden.
[53:32.900 --> 53:33.720]  Well, never mind.
[53:33.860 --> 53:34.220]  I'll leave it later.
[53:34.240 --> 53:34.800]  I'll pass you the card.
[53:35.040 --> 53:35.320]  All right.
[53:36.560 --> 53:37.280]  Karen from...
[53:37.980 --> 53:39.760]  Looks like Mount Lake Grove.
[53:40.980 --> 53:43.960]  Well, there's a Lake Grove in New York.
[53:45.080 --> 53:47.240]  There's a Mount something else in New York, too.
[53:47.420 --> 53:51.240]  Well, it's not Mount Lake Grove, I'll tell you that, unless something's happened that I don't know about.
[53:52.520 --> 53:53.000]  Let's see.
[53:53.080 --> 53:55.720]  That zip code, I believe, is Lake Grove zip code.
[53:55.820 --> 53:56.100]  Okay.
[53:56.280 --> 53:57.980]  And that phone number is a Lake Grove phone number.
[53:58.720 --> 54:00.900]  But, yes, that's Karen from Lake Grove.
[54:01.040 --> 54:01.420]  I'm not sure.
[54:01.420 --> 54:04.720]  You might want to cross out those extraneous letters, or we'll go who knows where.
[54:05.660 --> 54:06.760]  Thanks to all those people.
[54:06.900 --> 54:08.480]  Thanks so much for bringing us to where we are now.
[54:08.480 --> 54:09.940]  Now, there's still time.
[54:10.020 --> 54:20.240]  There's still time for you to call in and add your support so that we can continue moving along and surpassing even our wildest dreams, which we seem to be doing right now.
[54:20.240 --> 54:22.520]  2-1-2-2-0-9-2-9-5-0.
[54:22.580 --> 54:23.160]  Somebody left out?
[54:23.320 --> 54:24.900]  I got one that's fresh.
[54:25.180 --> 54:26.920]  It's just... they haven't even got it over in the cabin.
[54:26.920 --> 54:28.000]  Did you just write this out?
[54:28.100 --> 54:28.600]  Oh, my goodness.
[54:28.600 --> 54:32.500]  Yeah, this is Lynn from Memphis, Tennessee.
[54:33.840 --> 54:34.940]  And he's... let's see.
[54:35.040 --> 54:37.180]  We've got atlantafreenet.org.
[54:37.420 --> 54:37.780]  Yeah.
[54:37.920 --> 54:39.820]  Now, Lynn, you've been here.
[54:39.880 --> 54:41.460]  This is the first time you've been to this radio station.
[54:41.620 --> 54:45.060]  And we get money out of you for the first time through the door.
[54:45.860 --> 54:48.960]  Tell us more about your organization, how people can find out more.
[54:49.240 --> 54:49.520]  Okay.
[54:49.620 --> 54:50.220]  Well, that's great.
[54:50.460 --> 54:53.740]  Actually, I called in and pledged in the last pledge drive.
[54:53.920 --> 54:54.180]  Oh, yeah?
[54:54.600 --> 54:54.960]  Yes.
[54:55.440 --> 54:55.660]  Cool.
[54:55.660 --> 54:56.580]  And I'll talk to you about that later.
[54:56.580 --> 54:56.940]  Okay.
[54:57.540 --> 55:00.960]  Well, you haven't gotten your shirt yet, because we just got our... we just got the shirts now, so...
[55:00.960 --> 55:01.620]  They're hot off the press.
[55:01.700 --> 55:02.620]  They are hot off the press.
[55:03.160 --> 55:03.940]  You will be getting it.
[55:03.960 --> 55:10.200]  But, yeah, you can... if you're interested in Freenets, you can go to atlantafreenet.org, and there's a lot of information there.
[55:12.640 --> 55:14.560]  And Matt would be happy to talk to you.
[55:14.620 --> 55:18.200]  He is kind of the founder of this group.
[55:18.200 --> 55:29.620]  And if you have experience in wireless networking, expertise in any area, including PR and anything else, please contact us.
[55:29.680 --> 55:31.240]  We'd be happy to talk to you.
[55:31.260 --> 55:40.240]  And even if you're thinking about setting up a Freenet in your area of the world, we'll be happy to help you out so you don't have to reinvent the wheel.
[55:40.960 --> 55:41.460]  Mm-hmm.
[55:41.880 --> 55:42.180]  Okay.
[55:42.620 --> 55:45.080]  And there is one thing I would like to do.
[55:45.180 --> 55:48.380]  I want to personally thank Dan for coming on the phone with us tonight.
[55:48.640 --> 55:49.020]  Yes, Dan.
[55:49.020 --> 55:49.860]  Thank you so much.
[55:50.020 --> 55:55.580]  I know he wanted to get away, and we've kept him on almost the entire last hour here, buddy.
[55:55.780 --> 55:57.700]  So I really appreciate you hanging out.
[55:58.040 --> 55:58.320]  All right.
[55:58.640 --> 55:59.840]  Hey, have a great night, guys.
[56:00.000 --> 56:01.520]  And we'll see you next year in Dayton for sure.
[56:01.620 --> 56:02.040]  All right, guys.
[56:02.160 --> 56:07.540]  And always remember, support this crew, because I'll tell you what, if they go away, so does a lot of knowledge.
[56:07.660 --> 56:07.940]  Be good.
[56:08.020 --> 56:08.340]  God bless.
[56:08.380 --> 56:08.800]  We'll see you later.
[56:10.560 --> 56:13.440]  That's Dan Morgan joining us from...
[56:14.300 --> 56:15.980]  Where was he joining us from, actually?
[56:16.160 --> 56:17.280]  Was it Michigan?
[56:17.540 --> 56:18.460]  He's from Michigan, yeah.
[56:18.720 --> 56:18.960]  All right.
[56:19.760 --> 56:20.720]  Bernie, are you still with us?
[56:21.080 --> 56:21.860]  Still in Philadelphia.
[56:22.200 --> 56:22.400]  Okay.
[56:22.660 --> 56:23.040]  Good, good.
[56:23.240 --> 56:24.820]  I'm glad we didn't transfer you to another state.
[56:25.880 --> 56:29.160]  That's pretty much it for us tonight, and I want to thank all the people.
[56:29.280 --> 56:31.800]  There's still people calling in, and please keep those calls coming.
[56:32.940 --> 56:35.220]  Three hours went by, like, really fast.
[56:35.340 --> 56:35.740]  It really did.
[56:35.740 --> 56:46.320]  And I thank everybody for coming in, for helping out, because it can be really hard sometimes to just constantly be trying to, you know, get a response.
[56:46.320 --> 56:49.960]  And that response came tonight, and I want to thank all those people who called in.
[56:50.140 --> 56:55.400]  And if you still think of calling in, this is really your last chance, because we're not going to be on again during this fundraiser.
[56:55.400 --> 56:59.020]  We won't be on next week, we'll be on the week after that, but we won't be asking for money.
[56:59.140 --> 57:05.460]  We'll be doing a lot of the stuff that we've been doing over the past however many years we've been doing it, and hopefully many more.
[57:05.640 --> 57:08.900]  Do they know they only have a few minutes to get the t-shirt and things like that?
[57:09.040 --> 57:09.280]  Yes.
[57:09.280 --> 57:11.300]  They can't call in an hour from now and get the stuff.
[57:11.300 --> 57:16.880]  And if you're listening to this on tape later, then it's really too late because you can't call, you know, back in time.
[57:17.440 --> 57:21.580]  But if you hear us now live, you can always call in the radio station and just pledge in general.
[57:21.880 --> 57:28.560]  But if you call in now for this particular radio program, you have about three minutes left to do it before we're off the air.
[57:29.280 --> 57:30.820]  212-209-2950.
[57:31.060 --> 57:34.500]  We have the videos of the H2K2 conference.
[57:35.840 --> 57:38.520]  Again, for a $75 pledge, you'll get three of those.
[57:38.720 --> 57:41.240]  What we will do is contact you and you can tell us which ones you want.
[57:41.600 --> 57:46.480]  And for a pledge of $125, you'll get a hooded sweatshirt as well.
[57:46.480 --> 57:50.520]  As three videos from the H2K2 conference.
[57:51.260 --> 57:53.740]  And again, we'll contact you as far as sizes and things like that.
[57:54.180 --> 57:55.280]  And hold on.
[57:55.340 --> 57:56.000]  Don't forget this.
[57:56.140 --> 58:00.480]  And also, everybody pledging $25 or more will get a off the hook t-shirt.
[58:01.020 --> 58:02.980]  212-209-2950.
[58:03.100 --> 58:03.640]  What am I looking at?
[58:03.920 --> 58:04.540]  The number.
[58:05.040 --> 58:07.440]  We're up to 3640.
[58:08.120 --> 58:08.640]  3640.
[58:09.260 --> 58:09.700]  Great.
[58:09.960 --> 58:10.060]  Great.
[58:10.180 --> 58:10.820]  Thank you so much.
[58:11.220 --> 58:14.140]  Again, this is Manuel Goldstein for everybody else.
[58:14.140 --> 58:15.160]  Jeff Juntz.
[58:16.460 --> 58:17.120]  Bernie S.
[58:17.260 --> 58:17.600]  on the phone.
[58:17.720 --> 58:18.240]  Dan Morgan.
[58:19.520 --> 58:20.180]  Lynn here.
[58:20.920 --> 58:22.180]  Everybody who showed up.
[58:22.260 --> 58:22.980]  Everybody who called in.
[58:23.300 --> 58:24.100]  Thanks so much.
[58:24.240 --> 58:27.600]  Please, if you're running for a phone, you still have time to call us.
[58:27.680 --> 58:29.240]  212-209-2950.
[58:30.020 --> 58:32.460]  We're going to go out with another of those Roger Waters songs.
[58:32.820 --> 58:34.640]  Until next week.
[58:34.820 --> 58:35.720]  Two weeks from now, rather.
[58:35.720 --> 58:37.260]  Have a good night.
[58:37.520 --> 58:38.020]  See ya.
[59:11.150 --> 59:12.890]  Rock a bird, baby.
[59:15.210 --> 59:16.810]  On the treetop.
[59:19.780 --> 59:21.640]  When the wind blows.
[59:23.520 --> 59:25.020]  Cradle will rock.
[59:30.940 --> 59:34.260]  Hate to see you fall in the rain.
[59:35.520 --> 59:36.620]  Better speak to you.
[59:36.940 --> 59:37.900]  Hey, folks.
[59:38.160 --> 59:42.720]  On Saturday, May 24th, we're going to take a break from all this pitching and fundraising.
[59:42.720 --> 59:49.300]  And for six hours, we will dedicate mind, body, and spirit to the serious business of Bakken.
[59:49.300 --> 59:49.500]  you have a good night.
[59:49.500 --> 59:49.920]  So open for six hours.
[59:49.920 --> 59:50.160]  We have the best to do this.
[59:50.160 --> 59:50.180]  Bye.
[59:50.200 --> 59:50.220]  You're welcome.