[00:00.000 --> 00:15.560]  And as we close today's newscast, we here at Free Speech Radio News send our deepest condolences to the KPFA staff and the family of Morning News anchor and FSRN contributor Chris Bruni, who died suddenly of a heart attack yesterday.
[00:15.580 --> 00:22.200]  We thank Chris Bruni for his contribution to Progressive News, to the Pacifica Network and to Free Speech Radio News.
[00:24.680 --> 00:26.680]  This is Free Speech Radio News.
[00:26.920 --> 00:27.920]  I'm Deepa Fernandes.
[00:43.250 --> 00:51.210]  The WBAI staff, volunteers, and of course you, the listeners, to come to this year's first Peer Party on Saturday, July 12th.
[00:51.310 --> 00:51.970]  From 3 p.m.
[00:52.070 --> 00:54.390]  to midnight, join us at Peer 63.
[00:54.590 --> 00:58.190]  That's 12th Avenue and 23rd Street near Basketball City.
[00:58.390 --> 01:08.930]  There will be live entertainment, dance music provided by DJ Tony Ryan, delicious food and beverages, and hours of free-flowing conversation with like-minded people.
[01:09.190 --> 01:10.650]  Parking is also available.
[01:10.890 --> 01:13.150]  That's Saturday, July 12th.
[01:13.250 --> 01:13.970]  From 3 p.m.
[01:14.050 --> 01:16.170]  to midnight, tickets are only $15.
[01:16.810 --> 01:21.410]  For additional information, you can call area code 212-209-2869.
[01:22.130 --> 01:25.690]  That's 212-209-2869.
[01:25.850 --> 01:27.650]  See you at the pier.
[01:28.090 --> 01:28.990]  Happy days.
[01:29.310 --> 01:30.590]  I'm here again.
[01:31.910 --> 01:33.130]  The time is right.
[01:33.170 --> 01:34.390]  Okay, it's 6.59.
[01:34.390 --> 01:36.150]  We're going to steal an extra minute here.
[01:36.690 --> 01:37.750]  It's time for Off the Hook.
[01:41.240 --> 01:43.210]  The telephone keeps ringing.
[01:43.500 --> 01:45.720]  So I ripped it off the wall.
[01:46.680 --> 01:48.680]  I cut myself while shaving.
[01:49.380 --> 01:51.180]  Now I can't make a call.
[01:51.980 --> 01:54.020]  We couldn't get much worse.
[01:54.650 --> 01:56.580]  But if they could, they would.
[01:56.840 --> 01:59.500]  Bum-diddly-bom for the best, expect the worst.
[02:00.060 --> 02:01.980]  I hope that's understood.
[02:02.220 --> 02:03.040]  Bum-diddly-bom!
[02:20.570 --> 02:21.890]  And a very good evening to everybody.
[02:21.990 --> 02:22.930]  The program is Off the Hook.
[02:23.770 --> 02:24.710]  Bernie, are you with us?
[02:25.230 --> 02:26.230]  I'm here in Philadelphia.
[02:26.370 --> 02:26.670]  Good, okay.
[02:26.690 --> 02:31.430]  I had to hang up because your phone was ringing like 20 times, and I couldn't wait, so I just put you on the phone.
[02:31.430 --> 02:33.450]  You rang once on my end, but that's Sprint PCS for you.
[02:33.450 --> 02:34.910]  Yeah, well, that's Sprint PCS for you.
[02:35.410 --> 02:36.490]  Yeah, we stole a minute.
[02:36.590 --> 02:40.810]  And the reason we stole a minute is because, well, I've got some unfortunate news yet again.
[02:41.150 --> 02:45.650]  That's right, we're preempted once more next week, this time for a special on the Philippines and Korea.
[02:45.830 --> 02:50.030]  Yeah, I know it's fascinating to all the people listening to Off the Hook, but that's just the way they do things around here.
[02:50.190 --> 02:54.830]  And there's nothing I can do about it, but you're certainly encouraged to voice your opinions.
[02:54.830 --> 03:09.370]  It's really frustrating, and I don't want to go off topic for too long here, but it's really frustrating trying to do radio here, and literally at least once a month, sometimes twice a month, having to be preempted and not covering all the stories that we need to cover.
[03:09.710 --> 03:17.230]  There are so many things that we have to focus on in this time of tribulation and trouble in our nation, in our world.
[03:17.890 --> 03:26.210]  High technology is being used against people in all kinds of different ways, and it's just something that I wish we could devote more time to.
[03:26.470 --> 03:31.950]  We could devote, you know, ten times as much time as we do per week and not run out of material.
[03:32.310 --> 03:37.270]  And unfortunately, it seems everything that comes along down the road, we're the first choice to be preempted.
[03:37.370 --> 03:39.310]  And once again, next week we won't be on.
[03:39.930 --> 03:45.270]  So we'll be on in two weeks, unless there's something else going on in the city that needs to be covered instead of us.
[03:46.330 --> 03:47.530]  Sorry if I sound upset.
[03:47.670 --> 03:48.270]  I'm just upset.
[03:48.750 --> 03:58.190]  It's annoying, especially considering all the hard work people around here do to keep this place online and keep things going, keep the station heard by people all over the place.
[03:59.470 --> 04:03.230]  So, well, actually, I should say one of three things is going to happen now, okay?
[04:04.150 --> 04:05.650]  Number one, we won't be on next week.
[04:05.950 --> 04:14.610]  Number two, I'll get a phone call, like, you know, ten hours before the show next week saying that they changed their mind and I will be on, and of course I won't be able to tell anybody that because we won't be on the air.
[04:14.770 --> 04:17.910]  Or number three, neither of us will be on the air.
[04:18.030 --> 04:21.470]  The show that we get preempted for won't be on either, and there'll just be confusion.
[04:21.670 --> 04:22.730]  That's happened more than once.
[04:23.970 --> 04:31.990]  Anyway, that out of the way, I just figured I'd let people know so that if I sound a little perturbed, that's the reason.
[04:32.430 --> 04:34.950]  What's with this anti-confusion stance all of a sudden?
[04:35.070 --> 04:36.970]  Well, you know, I'm all for confusion.
[04:37.170 --> 04:43.890]  I'm just, you know, let's get our confusion out there as well because there's a lot of things that need to be talked about.
[04:44.970 --> 04:47.930]  And tonight we're going to have to, like, try to squeeze a lot of things in.
[04:48.890 --> 04:49.870]  Bernie, let's start with you.
[04:49.950 --> 04:52.530]  You've got an update on the Sprint PCS situation, right?
[04:52.730 --> 05:00.690]  Well, besides it taking 20 rings for me to hear one ring, that's normal for Sprint PCS.
[05:01.570 --> 05:05.450]  There's some good news and bad news with Sprint, as is usually the case.
[05:06.150 --> 05:17.450]  But for our listeners in the show-me state, Missouri, the attorney general there, Jay Nixon, finally reached an agreement with both Nextel and Sprint.
[05:17.610 --> 05:18.690]  He sued them.
[05:19.030 --> 05:40.170]  The reason the attorney general of Missouri sued them is because of what we talked about last week, which is Sprint and other carriers, apparently, being very deceptive and misleading in how they're charging customers for what they're referring to as USA regulatory obligations and fees.
[05:40.170 --> 05:41.590]  That's what it says in my bill.
[05:42.070 --> 05:45.950]  On Nextel bills, it says federal programs cost recovery.
[05:46.390 --> 05:57.190]  And all these things are is that there are federal mandates to do certain things with their network, like provide E911 emergency locations.
[05:57.230 --> 05:59.370]  Bernie, I hate to rush you, but we're so pressed for time.
[05:59.830 --> 06:00.690]  I'll cut this short.
[06:00.690 --> 06:10.390]  Bottom line is now in the state of Missouri and hopefully other states soon, Sprint's going to have to be more honest about them charging these fees.
[06:10.510 --> 06:15.410]  These are not taxes, and they're representing them as being taxes and tariffs and that sort of thing, and they're not.
[06:15.890 --> 06:18.830]  We're talking about several bucks a month they're charging customers.
[06:18.970 --> 06:31.530]  So I'm hoping other state attorney generals get on the bad wagon and sue Sprint, UCS, and Nextel and get to be more honest about how they're billing, because you're really paying several dollars more per month than they're saying in their advertising.
[06:31.790 --> 06:49.470]  Now, what Sprint's doing now is they announced on Monday they're going to be charging an additional $1.50 a month for E911, and on top of that, another $1.10 a month for this number of portability and number of pooling stuff.
[06:49.470 --> 06:49.750]  Absolutely.
[06:49.890 --> 06:51.270]  Let me just correct you on that.
[06:51.650 --> 06:58.250]  According to the thing I'm looking at, it's a fee of $1.50, $0.40 to pay for 9-1-1 and $1.10 to pay for portability.
[06:58.570 --> 06:59.150]  Thank you.
[06:59.350 --> 06:59.510]  Okay.
[07:00.850 --> 07:14.010]  So another $1.50 a month on top of the fees you're paying now for what Sprint should really be eating or passing on to customers as part of their monthly charges.
[07:14.250 --> 07:22.190]  Now, if Sprint wants to raise their rates, that's fine, but don't keep your rates the same and add on these other things saying these are like taxes.
[07:22.190 --> 07:25.130]  How does this differ from what AT&T and Nextel are doing?
[07:25.210 --> 07:32.090]  They charge $1.75 and $1.55 for both number portability and 9-1-1 and number pooling.
[07:32.210 --> 07:33.810]  Are they as guilty as Sprint in this?
[07:35.170 --> 07:36.250]  In some ways.
[07:36.390 --> 07:39.470]  I mean, the numbers are slightly different, but they're...
[07:39.470 --> 07:40.770]  I don't know what AT&T is doing.
[07:40.890 --> 07:49.270]  I haven't seen one of their bills, but Nextel was also named in this lawsuit and decided they were going to start charging people more honestly as far as what they're doing.
[07:49.270 --> 07:52.570]  But this is a lot of money.
[07:52.670 --> 08:01.290]  It might not seem like a couple bucks a month adds up, but like I mentioned on the last week's show, just for the federal number pooling thing, so you can transport your number around.
[08:01.910 --> 08:06.510]  Sprint's been charging everybody 47 cents per number per month for this.
[08:06.730 --> 08:15.690]  And with 18 million subscribers, which they have, that's over $100 million a year, and they haven't even implemented it yet.
[08:15.830 --> 08:16.730]  So this is big bucks.
[08:16.730 --> 08:18.770]  They're scamming the computer's on.
[08:18.770 --> 08:24.310]  Well, it's more annoying because, you know, you can't even make a phone call and have it work properly.
[08:24.650 --> 08:25.890]  Kind of adds insult to injury.
[08:26.030 --> 08:26.710]  Yeah, it sure does.
[08:27.210 --> 08:32.590]  By the way, do you guys know who the nation's number one wireless phone company is?
[08:33.990 --> 08:34.690]  Anyone want to guess?
[08:37.410 --> 08:38.770]  Is it T-Mobile yet?
[08:38.950 --> 08:39.870]  No, it's not T-Mobile.
[08:41.150 --> 08:42.970]  We've got to do this fast because we don't have much time.
[08:43.170 --> 08:44.110]  Well, there's only so many.
[08:44.110 --> 08:45.150]  I'll guess AT&T.
[08:45.310 --> 08:46.330]  Okay, Jeff, what do you want to guess?
[08:46.830 --> 08:47.210]  Verizon.
[08:47.610 --> 08:48.250]  You're right.
[08:48.690 --> 08:49.310]  Jeff gets it.
[08:49.530 --> 08:56.210]  Verizon is the number one domestic wireless telephone company, and they recently reversed their stance in charging customers to keep phone numbers.
[08:56.550 --> 09:06.250]  They say they will not initially charge fees to customers and will review in November how to recoup costs, which it estimates at about $0.10 to $0.15 per customer per month.
[09:06.890 --> 09:08.030]  I had an edge, though.
[09:08.190 --> 09:08.630]  You had an edge.
[09:08.650 --> 09:09.130]  I had an edge.
[09:09.130 --> 09:09.910]  Did you read this before I did?
[09:10.030 --> 09:10.390]  No, no.
[09:10.490 --> 09:15.170]  I'm staying at a hotel in Midtown, and there's a couple of Verizon guys there.
[09:15.170 --> 09:15.870]  You're staying at a hotel in Midtown.
[09:15.950 --> 09:16.530]  You live in New Jersey.
[09:16.930 --> 09:18.050]  Well, I'm at a conference.
[09:18.650 --> 09:19.710]  You're at a conference right now?
[09:19.770 --> 09:20.130]  I didn't know that.
[09:20.390 --> 09:20.970]  Right now, I'm at a conference.
[09:20.990 --> 09:21.490]  I did not know that.
[09:21.790 --> 09:23.050]  You look totally normal.
[09:23.790 --> 09:25.650]  You didn't look like you were in conference mode at all.
[09:25.970 --> 09:28.730]  But they're staying there, and I had the opportunity to talk with them.
[09:28.890 --> 09:35.290]  And what was interesting through the conversation is that the guy told me he doesn't use Verizon for his cell phone service.
[09:35.290 --> 09:36.550]  He uses AT&T.
[09:37.770 --> 09:38.950]  That's an interesting revelation.
[09:39.170 --> 09:39.250]  Yeah.
[09:39.290 --> 09:42.590]  Speaking of conferences, we're going to be going into conference mode in just a little bit.
[09:42.810 --> 09:46.330]  We're going to be talking to some people over in Germany about the upcoming KS Communications Camp.
[09:46.850 --> 09:48.870]  So they'll be joining us in just a couple of moments.
[09:48.970 --> 09:50.430]  First, a couple of quick updates.
[09:50.750 --> 09:54.170]  Last week, we were talking about the do not call dot gov registry.
[09:54.970 --> 09:56.990]  If you recall, we demonstrated some interesting things.
[09:57.110 --> 09:59.170]  Jeff, did you ever get that piece of email?
[09:59.350 --> 10:00.270]  Yeah, I got the two responses.
[10:00.430 --> 10:01.230]  And what did they say?
[10:02.070 --> 10:02.910]  Nothing had changed.
[10:03.130 --> 10:03.670]  Nothing had changed.
[10:03.870 --> 10:04.850]  What did we try doing?
[10:04.950 --> 10:06.650]  We tried deregistering your phone?
[10:06.790 --> 10:06.910]  Right.
[10:07.070 --> 10:07.970]  And you said it didn't work?
[10:07.970 --> 10:08.850]  It did not work.
[10:09.050 --> 10:11.170]  I didn't use the proper emails either.
[10:11.430 --> 10:12.770]  But did the mail say it didn't work?
[10:12.870 --> 10:13.450]  What did the mail say?
[10:14.370 --> 10:14.910]  It did...
[10:14.910 --> 10:15.390]  Oh, no.
[10:15.510 --> 10:16.570]  Actually, we verified it.
[10:16.690 --> 10:17.810]  And everything stayed the same.
[10:18.130 --> 10:18.410]  Okay.
[10:18.650 --> 10:26.090]  Well, I was able to get people canceled from the service just by entering their phone number and their email.
[10:26.310 --> 10:26.970]  Not their email.
[10:27.010 --> 10:27.450]  My email.
[10:27.650 --> 10:28.690]  You know, any email worked.
[10:29.130 --> 10:33.170]  And the thing is, though, the day after that show, the system changed.
[10:33.530 --> 10:33.770]  Yeah.
[10:34.010 --> 10:34.570]  The server...
[10:34.570 --> 10:35.770]  Hours later.
[10:35.770 --> 10:41.230]  You can no longer cancel the service on the Internet.
[10:41.250 --> 10:45.690]  If you go to donotcall.gov, you will see that option is no longer there.
[10:45.910 --> 10:52.270]  So it just goes to show people listen to this program and things that we discover do get acted upon.
[10:52.450 --> 10:53.970]  So I guess that's a good thing.
[10:54.030 --> 10:57.490]  But there's still a lot more that needs to be proven with this system.
[10:57.530 --> 11:02.710]  We're talking about the list of phone numbers that the government is collecting from people who don't want
[11:05.850 --> 11:10.590]  call.gov, or you call a special number which I don't have in front of me, which is now starting to work.
[11:11.530 --> 11:12.670]  You have to call...
[11:12.670 --> 11:13.650]  They made it work this week.
[11:13.930 --> 11:18.370]  Yes, you have to call from the number that you want to have on that list.
[11:19.250 --> 11:20.130]  I tried calling.
[11:20.290 --> 11:22.990]  I tried, you know, registering a different number and it did not work.
[11:23.150 --> 11:31.850]  I tried registering the number I was calling from and it did work, but they didn't tell you what the number was, which is actually kind of smart because otherwise people are going to be calling this thing to find out what their phone number is and, you know,
[11:31.870 --> 11:33.770]  I guess they don't want I'm going to pay for all those calls.
[11:34.710 --> 11:40.030]  But there are still some security issues that are very much of concern to me.
[11:40.490 --> 11:44.090]  Namely, the fact that this is generating a huge list of people who value privacy.
[11:44.650 --> 11:46.530]  And that list is being given to guess who?
[11:46.830 --> 11:47.190]  Telemarketers.
[11:47.370 --> 11:48.650]  They have to download the list.
[11:48.730 --> 11:50.590]  This is starting in September, so we don't know how it's going to work.
[11:50.650 --> 11:57.670]  They have to download the list from someplace and add it to their database so that they do not call you if you are on that list.
[11:57.830 --> 11:59.330]  What happens if that list gets out?
[11:59.410 --> 12:01.130]  What happens if the wrong person gets a hold of it?
[12:01.130 --> 12:04.290]  You know, it's all kinds of concerns there.
[12:04.810 --> 12:08.670]  I'm always wary of adding my phone number to something or any phone number to something.
[12:08.810 --> 12:11.050]  I've already added quite a few phone numbers that don't belong to me.
[12:11.130 --> 12:12.690]  And you can still do that on the Internet.
[12:12.690 --> 12:17.730]  You can still add any phone number that you want to this list and give an email address.
[12:17.870 --> 12:19.530]  And as long as you get the email, it'll work.
[12:19.530 --> 12:31.290]  Emmanuel, not only is this list a list of phone numbers of people who value their privacy, but the list is also linked to all these people's email addresses, or at least the ones who register online for it.
[12:31.390 --> 12:37.390]  So that combination of linked information in the hands of the wrong people is even more dangerous, I think.
[12:37.390 --> 12:38.510]  Yeah, well, it is.
[12:38.630 --> 12:42.350]  And I'm going to try something right now, live on the air, which I hope is not a felony.
[12:43.570 --> 12:46.270]  But I have to try it in the interest of science.
[12:46.570 --> 12:50.650]  And since I have this computer terminal here, we're just obligated to get into trouble.
[12:50.750 --> 12:57.250]  I'm going to do not call dot gov. Now, the government does claim that they will not release your email address to anybody.
[12:57.610 --> 13:00.370]  Yeah, they say they don't store it in the same place.
[13:01.070 --> 13:01.870]  I feel better.
[13:02.870 --> 13:05.570]  Yeah, well, I mean, I'm not concerned about the email address, but here's the thing.
[13:05.570 --> 13:07.190]  Here's the thing that I'm concerned about, though.
[13:07.490 --> 13:12.070]  If somebody registers my number, let's say I want to hear from telemarketers.
[13:12.210 --> 13:16.650]  Let's say that's the only calls I get is telemarketers, and I live for that, all right?
[13:16.990 --> 13:24.590]  Some wiseacre out there decides that I'm not going to have that pleasure anymore, and they add my number to the do not call list on the Internet, okay?
[13:25.090 --> 13:28.750]  And they use an email address to verify that.
[13:28.910 --> 13:30.150]  They use their email address.
[13:30.350 --> 13:32.010]  Well, I get wind of this.
[13:32.110 --> 13:35.270]  I find out about it, and I want to get my number put off that list.
[13:35.270 --> 13:36.690]  I want to get the telemarketing calls again.
[13:36.930 --> 13:37.750]  How do I do it?
[13:37.830 --> 13:38.710]  I can't do it online.
[13:38.910 --> 13:44.270]  I can't delete the phone number online anymore.
[13:44.690 --> 13:48.590]  I have to call in or send an email or something.
[13:48.590 --> 13:51.110]  I'm having trouble being convinced that this is a serious problem.
[13:51.110 --> 13:55.790]  Well, I'm just saying, if you add somebody to the list, they may have a hard time getting off the list.
[13:56.110 --> 13:56.930]  That's all I'm saying.
[13:57.250 --> 13:58.690]  Look at it as a public service.
[13:58.970 --> 13:59.330]  All right.
[13:59.330 --> 14:01.630]  So that's the issue as far as that goes.
[14:02.030 --> 14:07.250]  This person wrote in, very concerned about something they discovered, which actually isn't that new, concerning Google.
[14:08.230 --> 14:13.110]  They entered their phone number into Google, and they found that there was all of a sudden a roadmap to their house.
[14:13.530 --> 14:13.850]  Yeah.
[14:14.030 --> 14:15.950]  A roadmap to their house was right there.
[14:15.950 --> 14:19.930]  And this will happen if you enter a phone number.
[14:20.690 --> 14:22.610]  Google will look in all different databases.
[14:22.910 --> 14:24.670]  My friend tested it out, this person writes.
[14:24.830 --> 14:27.390]  And sure enough, the map led her to her house.
[14:28.290 --> 14:29.650]  Privacy as public info.
[14:29.770 --> 14:32.450]  Anyone who can get your phone number now will be able to get to your house.
[14:33.650 --> 14:34.050]  So...
[14:34.050 --> 14:36.150]  I tried it, and it led me to someone else's house.
[14:36.370 --> 14:37.570]  Well, you're strange.
[14:37.810 --> 14:40.410]  But apart from that, here's a little caveat.
[14:40.770 --> 14:42.030]  Give the phone back.
[14:42.230 --> 14:43.790]  It has to be a listed phone number.
[14:43.790 --> 14:47.210]  And so if it's a listed phone number, the information is already there.
[14:47.750 --> 14:54.610]  All you have to do is go to switchboard.com or, you know, verizon.com even has reverse directories.
[14:54.790 --> 14:57.470]  You enter the phone number, it'll tell you who it belongs to, the address.
[14:57.770 --> 15:01.570]  And you can plug that into MapQuest and, you know, add a step to the whole process.
[15:02.350 --> 15:04.070]  But that information is always there.
[15:04.110 --> 15:07.670]  Now, find something that has unlisted phone numbers and gives you the address of those.
[15:07.950 --> 15:10.030]  Then, you know, we'll have something really interesting.
[15:11.770 --> 15:15.690]  Well, just because your number is unlisted doesn't mean that a lot of companies don't already have it.
[15:15.810 --> 15:26.150]  As soon as you call an 800, a toll-free number, an 800-888-866 number, whoever you call is likely going to get your number through something called ANI.
[15:26.310 --> 15:29.790]  And you know that's going to be added to a database and shared with other companies.
[15:29.790 --> 15:35.330]  He's a... who is the investigator we had at H2K2, Emanuel, that...
[15:35.710 --> 15:36.590]  Steve... Steve Rambam.
[15:36.930 --> 15:37.290]  Steve Rambam.
[15:37.290 --> 15:38.250]  Yeah, yeah, Steve Rambam.
[15:38.290 --> 15:38.690]  He's great.
[15:38.690 --> 15:39.830]  He's got a great detail about it.
[15:39.950 --> 15:47.670]  He says, anytime you call a company's toll-free number, they will generally log your number and link it in their database and share that with other companies.
[15:47.830 --> 15:54.850]  So what I have done lately with my cell phone, my Sprint BCS phone, when I call one of those numbers, I have a prepaid calling card.
[15:54.850 --> 15:56.310]  It's like three cents a minute, so what?
[15:56.310 --> 16:07.270]  And I call toll-free numbers with that card, which then prevents the called party from getting my Sprint PCS cell phone number, which I don't want to give out.
[16:08.150 --> 16:10.530]  So it just adds an extra layer of security.
[16:10.530 --> 16:13.770]  Yeah, it costs me three cents a minute to do that, but I don't call out of those numbers.
[16:13.850 --> 16:20.110]  But when I do, I don't like giving up my mobile phone number to people I don't want to have.
[16:20.430 --> 16:20.890]  Uh-huh.
[16:21.250 --> 16:21.610]  So.
[16:22.470 --> 16:24.310]  I'm debating what to do here.
[16:25.570 --> 16:26.210]  Let's see.
[16:26.310 --> 16:26.910]  You know what I'm going to do?
[16:26.990 --> 16:27.610]  Okay, this is what I'm going to do.
[16:27.670 --> 16:32.310]  I'm going to, I'll enter the New York Times, okay, because I know their phone number.
[16:32.790 --> 16:35.250]  And I don't want them to get telemarketing calls.
[16:35.570 --> 16:37.390]  So I have just registered them.
[16:37.690 --> 16:40.530]  I'm putting in my email address right now.
[16:41.850 --> 16:45.510]  And I am issuing a challenge to anybody out there.
[16:45.890 --> 16:47.330]  Hang on, I'm submitting it now.
[16:48.630 --> 16:49.030]  Registering.
[16:49.170 --> 16:49.470]  Okay.
[16:49.970 --> 16:50.630]  And did it work?
[16:50.770 --> 16:51.130]  Yes.
[16:51.130 --> 16:54.450]  I've submitted the phone number for registration in the National Do Not Call Registry.
[16:54.870 --> 16:55.930]  You will receive an email.
[16:57.010 --> 16:59.930]  To complete your registration, you must open the email and click on the link provided.
[17:00.090 --> 17:00.250]  Okay.
[17:01.530 --> 17:02.010]  Here's the thing.
[17:02.090 --> 17:05.730]  I'm not going to have a chance to do that, obviously, until I get to a place where I can check my email.
[17:06.250 --> 17:11.230]  When I do that, let's say 24 hours from now, just to be safe, I'm going to click on that.
[17:11.450 --> 17:16.790]  And at that point, the New York Times will not be able to get any telemarketing calls, all right?
[17:17.490 --> 17:29.990]  The challenge, the challenge that I'm going to issue is for anyone out there to deregister them from this list and see if they can prevent them from being on the Do Not Call Registry, all right?
[17:30.050 --> 17:32.570]  And that's the challenge I'm issuing.
[17:33.030 --> 17:35.990]  Do they differentiate between residential and business phone numbers?
[17:36.750 --> 17:38.190]  They do not, I don't think.
[17:38.650 --> 17:39.110]  Also...
[17:39.110 --> 17:39.530]  They might.
[17:39.710 --> 17:40.170]  They might.
[17:40.390 --> 17:45.410]  I think when I called the number, when I called the Do Not Call number, it said residential numbers.
[17:45.730 --> 17:46.170]  Okay.
[17:46.170 --> 17:49.630]  So I'm not sure if this experiment will necessarily work if it's a business phone number.
[17:49.630 --> 17:53.170]  Well, I'm not going to give them, you know, the editor's home number.
[17:53.750 --> 17:54.890]  That wouldn't be fair, would it?
[17:55.170 --> 17:55.590]  Why not?
[17:55.870 --> 17:57.690]  They need some help anyway, those editors.
[17:57.690 --> 17:59.890]  All right, I'll tell you what, let's get Donald Rumsfeld's home number.
[18:00.110 --> 18:00.770]  We'll enter that.
[18:00.950 --> 18:02.990]  Because he doesn't need telemarketers calling him.
[18:03.070 --> 18:03.890]  It's the last thing he needs.
[18:03.910 --> 18:05.570]  He's going to have to answer a lot of questions.
[18:05.730 --> 18:06.210]  We're done for index.
[18:06.310 --> 18:06.830]  Weeks ahead.
[18:07.670 --> 18:09.750]  Did anybody catch the parliament today in England?
[18:10.050 --> 18:12.450]  Oh, my God, Tony Blair is really under fire.
[18:12.610 --> 18:15.790]  I mean, they're basically yelling at him, saying, no one's going to believe anything you say from now on.
[18:15.950 --> 18:18.970]  I can hardly wait until, you know, we give Bush that kind of treatment.
[18:19.630 --> 18:21.370]  Okay, we've got to move quickly here.
[18:22.230 --> 18:25.490]  People are meeting outside in the hall.
[18:25.810 --> 18:27.190]  It's getting kind of loud.
[18:29.150 --> 18:37.190]  People chastised us for not remembering last week, especially since we were on, what was it?
[18:38.210 --> 18:39.630]  Let them continue to yell.
[18:39.770 --> 18:40.670]  It's good background noise.
[18:41.430 --> 18:42.590]  Besides, you might get hurt.
[18:44.310 --> 18:51.090]  We forgot to mention that July 4th was Reagan Death Watch Day, as you recall.
[18:51.290 --> 18:51.890]  Do you know about this, Jeff?
[18:52.330 --> 18:52.790]  Yeah, probably.
[18:52.790 --> 18:53.050]  Okay.
[18:53.290 --> 18:56.590]  Every year we tell people that July 4th...
[18:57.730 --> 18:58.570]  Very quickly.
[18:58.790 --> 19:05.370]  Every president elected in a year ending in zero has either died in office or died on the most significant date in American history, July 4th.
[19:06.010 --> 19:11.230]  Reagan was elected in 1980, and obviously he survived his term in office.
[19:11.450 --> 19:14.810]  I know there's some debate as to, you know, that, but I think it's true that he did.
[19:15.470 --> 19:22.470]  And that means that every July 4th is an especially, you know, tense time, because that might be the...
[19:22.470 --> 19:25.810]  You know, and if it doesn't happen, then the whole thing, you know, is finished.
[19:25.990 --> 19:28.350]  You know, since the beginning of this nation, that's happened.
[19:28.570 --> 19:31.710]  Anyway, we forgot last week, and we're sorry to everybody who was offended by us forgetting.
[19:32.430 --> 19:34.490]  We will remember next year, all right?
[19:34.730 --> 19:36.350]  And obviously Reagan survived.
[19:36.550 --> 19:37.410]  At least I think he did.
[19:37.770 --> 19:39.230]  And you never really know for sure.
[19:39.330 --> 19:40.510]  He's not one of the ones that supported...
[19:40.510 --> 19:40.970]  He doesn't know.
[19:41.530 --> 19:43.190]  Yeah, okay, I know that too.
[19:44.130 --> 19:47.410]  Okay, moving along quickly, and then we're going to make a phone call to Germany.
[19:48.050 --> 19:56.350]  A lot of people wrote in again about the MTV.com thing, and apparently they're getting more and more upset at us because we keep wanting to know why.
[19:56.350 --> 20:04.350]  Any time you mention 2600 in MTV.com profiles, you get either kicked off the system or that information gets deleted.
[20:06.990 --> 20:09.170]  It's really pretty incredible.
[20:11.150 --> 20:12.410]  More people wrote in.
[20:12.590 --> 20:13.810]  A lot more people wrote in.
[20:14.450 --> 20:18.810]  People have taken to spelling out 2600, and now that's getting deleted too.
[20:19.010 --> 20:28.250]  So this person writes in saying, it would appear that an actual person is monitoring the post in the forums or their filters are smarter since your last show.
[20:28.870 --> 20:35.670]  The other conclusion I have come to is that MTV.com has gotten wise to the technique where they change O's to Zeros in 2600.
[20:36.430 --> 20:37.590]  Or Zeros to O's, actually.
[20:37.770 --> 20:44.630]  I tried to change my Zeros to O's in the Scoop section, and my profile has remained hidden to MTV.com.
[20:44.650 --> 20:46.670]  I attempted this after your July 3rd show.
[20:47.290 --> 20:48.430]  We didn't do a July 3rd show.
[20:48.610 --> 20:50.110]  We did a July 2nd show.
[20:50.510 --> 20:51.950]  I don't know where we did a July 3rd show.
[20:51.950 --> 20:56.350]  And that is why I also think that someone at MTV knows that MTV.com is being discussed and off the hook.
[20:56.430 --> 20:57.450]  Well, you know, it's not a far reach.
[20:57.590 --> 21:02.210]  If DoNotCall.gov listens to us, it's a fair bet that MTV.com listens to us as well.
[21:02.290 --> 21:03.310]  So hi, guys out there.
[21:03.350 --> 21:04.570]  Why don't you stop deleting us?
[21:04.890 --> 21:08.550]  You know, and maybe we'll actually turn on your channel now and then.
[21:09.410 --> 21:11.290]  Which is a lot more offensive than anything we can say.
[21:11.750 --> 21:17.050]  It appears as if someone at MTV has taken the time to go to this length to keep 2600 off of MTV.com.
[21:17.150 --> 21:18.790]  You may want someone else to verify this.
[21:18.790 --> 21:20.650]  Because what I intend to do next...
[21:20.650 --> 21:21.130]  And this is great.
[21:21.210 --> 21:26.090]  I love how our listeners are always one step ahead and always think you have something new and mischievous to try.
[21:27.370 --> 21:37.030]  What I intend to do next is set up a forwarding URL so that MTV.com users can click on a URL that is not 2600.com and they will still end up on 2600.com.
[21:37.110 --> 21:38.170]  We will see how that goes.
[21:38.330 --> 21:39.370]  And that's from M2.
[21:39.430 --> 21:43.570]  Mike, thank you so much for your ideas, your thoughts, and your support.
[21:44.670 --> 21:46.050]  And what else here?
[21:46.230 --> 21:49.630]  This funny news story from Yahoo.
[21:51.270 --> 21:56.810]  According to police, a shopper in southern France literally named his own price.
[21:56.910 --> 21:57.350]  You hear about this?
[21:57.650 --> 22:14.230]  When he visited several supermarkets near Montpellier, according to police, the 22-year-old suspect fabricated barcode labels on his home computer and by using them to replace the originals was able to acquire goods for a fraction of their real prices.
[22:14.710 --> 22:22.350]  Police said a store clerk spotted him as he was affixing the homemade labels on boxes containing garage door motors costing 2,000 euros apiece.
[22:22.450 --> 22:27.170]  The young man, whose identity was not given, allegedly had repriced the motors at 160 euros.
[22:27.830 --> 22:32.410]  And then, according to the police, he used the internet to resell the goods he had obtained.
[22:32.570 --> 22:35.170]  And I don't think he was reselling them at much of his savings.
[22:35.590 --> 22:38.870]  That must be a heck of a market for a garage door opener motor.
[22:39.150 --> 22:39.970]  Yeah, really.
[22:40.310 --> 22:43.030]  Okay, now it's time for us to try to call Germany.
[22:43.510 --> 22:45.130]  Now, I should warn people, we had some problems.
[22:45.210 --> 22:47.590]  And Bernie, please forgive the touchdowns you're going to hear.
[22:48.070 --> 22:50.330]  We were having some problems with this before.
[22:51.010 --> 22:53.550]  So you might get to hear all kinds.
[22:53.630 --> 22:57.350]  We're going to block out the numbers as soon as we get past the obvious German parts.
[22:57.930 --> 22:58.330]  Okay.
[22:59.530 --> 23:03.810]  And now we're dialing the actual local number, which we had problems with before.
[23:06.590 --> 23:08.210]  And pound sign to speed it up.
[23:08.470 --> 23:11.070]  Then we're going to be asked for our special...
[23:11.070 --> 23:13.990]  Our special code with the tone here.
[23:16.090 --> 23:17.090]  Okay, and that's the tone.
[23:17.330 --> 23:18.910]  Here's our special code.
[23:19.230 --> 23:20.490]  Let's see if it goes through to Germany.
[23:22.150 --> 23:24.650]  We were getting all kinds of weird recordings and sounds before.
[23:25.130 --> 23:27.550]  We have a backup number that does work in case this doesn't.
[23:28.410 --> 23:29.250]  Oh, it's working.
[23:30.110 --> 23:30.910]  How about that?
[23:32.930 --> 23:33.590]  Yes, hello.
[23:34.250 --> 23:34.610]  Hello.
[23:35.150 --> 23:35.850]  Is this...
[23:35.850 --> 23:36.130]  No, no, no.
[23:36.650 --> 23:37.250]  My goodness.
[23:37.390 --> 23:38.010]  Are you on the moon?
[23:38.770 --> 23:39.790]  Altus echo and reverb.
[23:40.710 --> 23:41.190]  Is this...
[23:43.110 --> 23:44.710]  Yeah, we can hear you.
[23:44.930 --> 23:46.270]  I hope you can hear us too.
[23:46.450 --> 23:49.190]  For those who don't know, the German phone system is always very echoey like this.
[23:51.130 --> 23:51.850]  This is...
[23:51.850 --> 23:52.350]  Is this Tim?
[23:52.410 --> 23:52.830]  Is this Frank?
[23:52.990 --> 23:53.430]  Is this Andy?
[23:53.490 --> 23:53.950]  Who is this?
[23:59.070 --> 24:00.870]  I sound like all three of you for a second there.
[24:01.750 --> 24:01.950]  Yeah.
[24:02.210 --> 24:03.330]  Okay, who is this?
[24:06.030 --> 24:08.230]  We have a speaker phone here, so...
[24:08.230 --> 24:15.310]  Well, it's definitely using its option as being a speaker, but we need you to maybe not echo as much, if that's possible.
[24:16.730 --> 24:17.130]  I don't know if that...
[24:17.130 --> 24:17.790]  Is this echo right now?
[24:18.030 --> 24:18.970]  Yeah, there is a bit of an...
[24:18.970 --> 24:20.450]  Are you in a hollow room of some sort?
[24:20.950 --> 24:21.910]  Yeah, we have.
[24:22.350 --> 24:25.450]  Okay, well, maybe you want to put up some insulation or something and...
[24:25.450 --> 24:28.410]  or pick up the phone and maybe pass it around.
[24:28.690 --> 24:31.010]  Maybe we'll pick up the phone and just...
[24:31.010 --> 24:32.110]  No, not really.
[24:32.990 --> 24:33.430]  For...
[24:34.230 --> 24:34.670]  For...
[24:34.670 --> 24:34.990]  For a second?
[24:35.590 --> 24:35.950]  No.
[24:36.150 --> 24:36.810]  Oh, my goodness.
[24:36.950 --> 24:38.170]  Talk about a communications problem.
[24:39.470 --> 24:40.690]  Okay, this is not...
[24:40.690 --> 24:41.910]  This is not working out all that greatly.
[24:42.690 --> 24:46.950]  We need to establish perhaps just a regular telephone if you...
[24:46.950 --> 24:49.890]  Yeah, what you can do is you can dial the other number I gave you.
[24:50.170 --> 24:51.430]  You actually sound good now.
[24:51.730 --> 24:53.170]  So, whatever you're doing now, keep it up.
[24:54.230 --> 24:54.650]  Yeah, okay.
[24:54.890 --> 24:58.090]  I just keep that distance to the microphone.
[24:58.650 --> 24:59.170]  Okay, that's good.
[24:59.270 --> 25:00.830]  Yeah, it does go right up next to the microphone.
[25:00.930 --> 25:01.170]  That's fine.
[25:01.290 --> 25:02.030]  Who is this again?
[25:02.950 --> 25:03.830]  This is Andy now.
[25:03.950 --> 25:04.630]  Andy, how are you doing?
[25:06.170 --> 25:07.010]  I'm all right, yeah.
[25:07.150 --> 25:10.010]  We're a little bit in the middle of the night here, but it's okay.
[25:10.230 --> 25:12.310]  Yeah, you know, no matter what, we can't seem to solve that problem.
[25:12.430 --> 25:12.890]  It's always...
[25:12.890 --> 25:14.770]  You're always like, you know, six hours ahead of us.
[25:16.030 --> 25:17.230]  But it's 1 a.m.
[25:17.230 --> 25:18.790]  Well, it's 1.22, I guess, over there.
[25:19.650 --> 25:20.770]  Yeah, not like that.
[25:20.930 --> 25:26.730]  We're all planning on, or most of us are planning on going to the CCC camp next month.
[25:27.410 --> 25:27.730]  Right.
[25:27.930 --> 25:32.750]  You want to tell us something about it as far as the actual date, how people can get there, things like that?
[25:34.390 --> 25:35.450]  Yeah, let me answer.
[25:35.570 --> 25:36.250]  Hello, this is Tim.
[25:36.510 --> 25:36.830]  Hi, Tim.
[25:37.150 --> 25:42.490]  Well, the Carl's Communication Camp is going to happen from the 7th to the 10th of August.
[25:44.810 --> 25:45.710]  Can you hear me?
[25:45.910 --> 25:47.410]  Yeah, I can hear you, but I hear something else, too.
[25:47.570 --> 25:48.030]  But never mind.
[25:48.170 --> 25:48.810]  Let's keep going.
[25:48.890 --> 25:49.470]  We'll see how it works.
[25:50.810 --> 25:54.370]  And, well, it's a four-day open-air Eckert Festival.
[25:54.510 --> 25:55.450]  Everybody is invited.
[25:55.910 --> 25:58.210]  And it's going to take place close to Berlin.
[25:59.930 --> 26:05.030]  And, yeah, well, I don't know what the shortest path from New York is to Berlin.
[26:05.450 --> 26:09.250]  You just take any kind of airplane over Frankfurt to Berlin-Tegel.
[26:09.390 --> 26:10.490]  That's T-X-L.
[26:10.770 --> 26:11.990]  It's an IATA code.
[26:12.910 --> 26:13.450]  Yeah, you could do that.
[26:13.550 --> 26:15.950]  You could fly into Amsterdam and take a train from there.
[26:16.070 --> 26:17.230]  There's all kinds of different ways to go.
[26:17.990 --> 26:20.970]  Now, how far is the actual campsite from Berlin?
[26:21.250 --> 26:24.210]  I believe you can get there by S-Bahn or by a shuttle or something like that?
[26:24.990 --> 26:29.650]  Yeah, we're going to have a shuttle operating, bringing people in.
[26:29.850 --> 26:33.650]  It's like 30 kilometers from the city center, so it's pretty close.
[26:34.870 --> 26:43.890]  And what we should say is maybe what's important that also on the website and the whole conference part of the camp will be in English.
[26:44.510 --> 26:52.530]  So this is pretty much also to ensure that participants from abroad have no problems communicating with us.
[26:52.710 --> 26:58.970]  And we have also a description on how to get from Berlin-Tegel Airport to the camp online.
[26:58.970 --> 27:03.850]  So that's www.ccc.de slash camp.
[27:05.310 --> 27:05.870]  Okay.
[27:06.350 --> 27:07.170]  What's beeping?
[27:07.650 --> 27:08.410]  Throw that away.
[27:09.350 --> 27:16.650]  So now, I understand that registration has opened up and people can actually use a credit card to register for the camp now?
[27:17.550 --> 27:18.470]  Yeah, that's true.
[27:18.750 --> 27:19.630]  Or a bank card.
[27:20.890 --> 27:26.750]  You can as well bring just big boxes of cash with you, of course.
[27:27.170 --> 27:35.430]  It's just that it helps us a little bit to run the organizational stories before the camp when people pay in advance.
[27:35.590 --> 27:38.130]  So it's not necessary, but it's helpful for us.
[27:38.510 --> 27:46.590]  Yeah, and I understand as someone who organizes a conference every now and then, you do need to have something to start paying back all the expenses that you've incurred at this point.
[27:46.590 --> 27:52.530]  Now, I went on the website like last week and there were like six pages of numbers I was supposed to give to my bank.
[27:52.630 --> 27:53.470]  Can I just...
[27:53.470 --> 27:54.130]  No, that's changed.
[27:54.290 --> 27:54.630]  That's changed.
[27:54.690 --> 27:57.310]  That was last week when they only had the bank transfer information.
[27:57.310 --> 27:58.830]  Now you can go through what is it, PayPal?
[28:01.940 --> 28:02.680]  I don't know.
[28:02.880 --> 28:03.440]  Are you guys there?
[28:04.520 --> 28:05.580]  Yeah, we're still here.
[28:05.820 --> 28:06.780]  We're still here.
[28:06.980 --> 28:09.400]  It's just that your line sounds quite funny.
[28:09.620 --> 28:15.420]  It seems to be that the satellite connection on whatever we got here goes to the moon and back.
[28:15.720 --> 28:18.140]  No, it is definitely going to the moon, maybe even Mars and back.
[28:20.420 --> 28:25.440]  It might be better if we call the mobile phone and we might get less echo.
[28:26.280 --> 28:27.100]  Do you want to try that?
[28:27.180 --> 28:29.640]  I also gave you the other number, Emmanuel.
[28:29.780 --> 28:30.020]  Okay.
[28:30.360 --> 28:31.140]  You want me to do that?
[28:31.140 --> 28:33.460]  You got that one because that's a normal phone here.
[28:33.740 --> 28:34.060]  Okay.
[28:34.140 --> 28:35.420]  Let me try that.
[28:35.580 --> 28:36.520]  I'll call that number.
[28:36.580 --> 28:36.800]  All right.
[28:37.100 --> 28:39.120]  And we'll hopefully get through to you.
[28:39.780 --> 28:40.560]  Talk to you in a second.
[28:40.760 --> 28:41.080]  All right.
[28:41.140 --> 28:41.240]  Okay.
[28:41.280 --> 28:44.600]  We're going to disconnect that one and get another dial tone.
[28:44.600 --> 28:48.800]  The summary is that people who tried to pay last week should now try again.
[28:49.900 --> 28:50.380]  Yeah.
[28:50.500 --> 28:50.660]  Okay.
[28:50.820 --> 28:55.140]  So if you had confusion, why people be confused?
[28:55.380 --> 28:56.140]  I was confused.
[28:56.860 --> 28:59.120]  Well, let's see if I can stay.
[28:59.540 --> 29:02.040]  I think they're asking for 100 euros, right?
[29:02.160 --> 29:02.920]  100 euros, yeah.
[29:02.920 --> 29:05.660]  Which four days including camping is, you know, not bad.
[29:05.800 --> 29:07.340]  You know, this phone system timed out.
[29:07.440 --> 29:08.500]  I was still looking for the number.
[29:08.600 --> 29:08.840]  Hold on.
[29:08.960 --> 29:09.780]  I got to do this again.
[29:11.480 --> 29:15.620]  Dialing an international number is something that is almost beyond our capabilities here.
[29:17.060 --> 29:17.460]  Okay.
[29:17.520 --> 29:18.600]  Now we go into the secret part.
[29:20.060 --> 29:27.760]  And people have no idea how difficult it is to dial this phone number while talking on the air and the pound sign.
[29:28.400 --> 29:30.380]  Now we wait for the special code that we have to enter.
[29:32.260 --> 29:32.620]  Okay.
[29:33.860 --> 29:38.260]  And hopefully this, uh, this will, uh, sound much better.
[29:39.340 --> 29:40.660]  Hopefully it'll go through in the first place.
[29:41.100 --> 29:42.360]  And Bernie, are you still there just out of curiosity?
[29:42.540 --> 29:42.760]  I'm still here.
[29:42.860 --> 29:43.680]  Okay, good, good.
[29:44.060 --> 29:45.280]  It's amazing we haven't lost you.
[29:47.000 --> 29:48.520]  Okay, as we wait for Germany to connect.
[29:50.500 --> 29:51.720]  I don't like the sound of that.
[29:53.100 --> 29:54.420]  What kind of noise is that?
[29:55.240 --> 29:55.820]  You hear that?
[29:56.960 --> 29:58.160]  That's not a German ring.
[29:59.820 --> 30:01.160]  Something weird happened here.
[30:01.480 --> 30:02.200]  We're sorry.
[30:02.460 --> 30:03.860]  Your call did not go through.
[30:04.240 --> 30:06.860]  Will you please hang up and try your call again?
[30:07.440 --> 30:08.780]  This is a recording.
[30:10.840 --> 30:11.660]  We're sorry.
[30:11.900 --> 30:13.000]  I don't know what voice that is.
[30:13.740 --> 30:13.960]  Yeah.
[30:14.200 --> 30:15.200]  Will you please hang up?
[30:15.320 --> 30:16.600]  All right, we're going to hang up and try.
[30:16.820 --> 30:18.660]  She wasn't even speaking in German.
[30:18.900 --> 30:24.580]  You know, what we're going through here is so much easier than what you'll go through if you just show up at the camp.
[30:25.420 --> 30:28.500]  Because, you know, there's no communication problems over there.
[30:29.000 --> 30:29.800]  Everybody speaks English.
[30:29.800 --> 30:30.780]  They don't speak an echo.
[30:31.540 --> 30:36.920]  And, and you're, you're able to to make your connections rather easily.
[30:38.280 --> 30:40.600]  Especially if you go by train in Europe.
[30:40.780 --> 30:41.980]  It's no problems at all.
[30:42.580 --> 30:42.740]  Okay.
[30:43.680 --> 30:45.320]  All right, now we're waiting for the special tone.
[30:47.360 --> 30:48.560]  There's a special tone.
[30:48.800 --> 30:50.180]  We enter the special code.
[30:50.500 --> 30:52.160]  And hopefully, we'll get a special ring.
[30:54.700 --> 30:55.060]  Unbelievable.
[30:55.800 --> 30:57.000]  And you know, I'm going to be over there too.
[30:57.100 --> 30:59.460]  People are going to figure out a way to call me when I'm, when I'm there.
[30:59.620 --> 31:00.820]  And we know how much fun that can be.
[31:04.400 --> 31:05.300]  Oh, this is a new recording.
[31:05.380 --> 31:09.920]  It is not necessary to dial zero after the country code when dialing this country.
[31:10.080 --> 31:10.580]  I didn't.
[31:10.660 --> 31:12.360]  Please hang up and try your call again.
[31:12.520 --> 31:13.500]  But I didn't do that.
[31:14.140 --> 31:15.240]  I didn't do that.
[31:15.400 --> 31:16.740]  It's certainly being special.
[31:17.080 --> 31:17.200]  How dare you?
[31:17.200 --> 31:19.260]  How dare you accuse me of something I did not do?
[31:19.940 --> 31:21.200]  I did not dial zero.
[31:21.320 --> 31:22.340]  I dialed three zero.
[31:24.460 --> 31:28.580]  You know, this is 1960s technology.
[31:28.940 --> 31:29.460]  If that.
[31:30.100 --> 31:30.860]  All right, here we go again.
[31:33.640 --> 31:36.060]  We have to verify that all these numbers get hit.
[31:36.620 --> 31:37.180]  You heard the three.
[31:37.220 --> 31:37.660]  That was a three.
[31:37.840 --> 31:37.940]  Okay.
[31:38.200 --> 31:38.900]  That's the zero.
[31:39.260 --> 31:40.300]  And now we dial the number.
[31:44.200 --> 31:48.640]  Maybe this is why we keep getting preempted because we can't master making a phone call.
[31:50.300 --> 31:51.480]  All right, now we're waiting for the tone.
[31:52.060 --> 31:52.820]  Not that tone.
[31:52.900 --> 31:54.580]  That's the tone saying that we're finished dialing.
[31:54.700 --> 31:55.280]  This is the tone.
[31:57.520 --> 31:58.940]  Okay, and we enter the secret code.
[32:00.280 --> 32:01.740]  Incidentally, this is the last time I'm going to try this number.
[32:01.800 --> 32:03.680]  If this doesn't work, I'm going to try their mobile number.
[32:06.640 --> 32:07.340]  Let's see what happens.
[32:09.380 --> 32:10.340]  Oh, that's a German ring.
[32:11.160 --> 32:12.360]  Yes, this is the right number.
[32:12.560 --> 32:13.320]  Okay, yes.
[32:13.600 --> 32:14.780]  We had so much trouble.
[32:14.980 --> 32:15.700]  I don't know if you're listening online.
[32:15.700 --> 32:18.880]  We hear the audio stream, so I give it to Tim.
[32:19.840 --> 32:20.440]  Okay, all right.
[32:20.560 --> 32:21.540]  It sounds much better, doesn't it?
[32:22.180 --> 32:22.520]  Okay.
[32:22.800 --> 32:24.060]  All right, Tim, you sound great.
[32:24.380 --> 32:26.200]  This is really a perfect connection, isn't it?
[32:26.320 --> 32:27.780]  Yes, let's never lose this connection.
[32:28.700 --> 32:29.720]  Okay, no, we won't.
[32:30.460 --> 32:31.560]  Okay, where did we stop?
[32:31.740 --> 32:38.500]  Well, we were talking about registration and how to register for people that are, say, from the United States and want to go to this thing.
[32:38.640 --> 32:40.260]  They can now use PayPal, I believe.
[32:40.340 --> 32:40.680]  Is that right?
[32:41.080 --> 32:45.100]  Yeah, they can if they really like to pay in advance, which is helping us a lot.
[32:45.520 --> 32:57.180]  Anyway, this registration is just more for getting your personal nickname at the camp, which is then, well, your basic nickname for other services we are planning to have running on the camp.
[32:57.340 --> 33:00.000]  And what can people do with this nickname once they're on site?
[33:00.600 --> 33:08.280]  Well, we hope to have like an email account, a Java account, and a web blog running under the same nickname.
[33:08.520 --> 33:16.420]  So, it's just like having your nickname handy at the camp makes it easy for other people to get in contact with you if everything is running.
[33:16.980 --> 33:17.140]  Okay.
[33:18.220 --> 33:19.600]  What's the setup going to be like?
[33:19.660 --> 33:20.480]  It's a campground.
[33:20.680 --> 33:25.560]  And when we, by the way, when we say 100 euros, that includes, you know, staying there for four days, obviously.
[33:25.760 --> 33:29.640]  So, if it sounds like a lot, keep in mind that you're not going to be spending money on a hotel.
[33:30.420 --> 33:31.640]  Yeah, that's true.
[33:31.860 --> 33:36.040]  It's like we are putting out the whole infrastructure so there's power.
[33:36.600 --> 33:38.680]  It's like 60,000 square meters.
[33:38.680 --> 33:40.360]  It's a huge area.
[33:40.640 --> 33:41.580]  There's a lovely lake.
[33:41.940 --> 33:43.320]  There's a big tent.
[33:43.600 --> 33:47.480]  We've got two main tents with lectures in it.
[33:47.860 --> 33:57.300]  Many other tents where activity is going on, several workshops and of course many people are going together putting up their tents as well forming a huge camp.
[33:57.840 --> 34:05.540]  So, we are taking care of the infrastructure and organizing the content in advance and everything else is dynamic.
[34:06.540 --> 34:08.540]  How big a space are we talking about here?
[34:09.240 --> 34:14.580]  It's 60,000 square meters so like 300 meters times 300 meters something like this.
[34:14.840 --> 34:15.060]  Wow.
[34:15.980 --> 34:16.920]  That's pretty big.
[34:17.160 --> 34:18.780]  Three football fields by three football fields.
[34:18.820 --> 34:21.180]  Is this the same location you guys had a few years ago?
[34:21.580 --> 34:25.320]  Yeah, it's exactly the same location we were four years ago.
[34:25.620 --> 34:25.960]  Uh-huh.
[34:26.220 --> 34:27.440]  How many people showed up to that one?
[34:28.020 --> 34:33.060]  It was around 1,500 and we expect a bit more this time hopefully.
[34:33.720 --> 34:33.960]  Okay.
[34:34.260 --> 34:37.260]  What were some of the highlights of the last camp for those people considering going?
[34:37.260 --> 34:39.620]  The highlights of the last camp?
[34:40.540 --> 35:09.780]  Well, I think most of the people really had a lot of fun in these three days and we had some interesting lectures going on of course and I think it was mainly the atmosphere people were touched by because it was really looking like well, actually we were repairing the spaceship you probably know that which was due to repair and was coming to planet Earth and all this usual stuff people are usually
[35:09.780 --> 35:14.180]  not believing this but it is true and that was what was going on.
[35:14.320 --> 35:21.220]  And if you look on the website www.ccc.de slash camp there's an archive of the last camp?
[35:21.880 --> 35:40.140]  Yeah, there's an archive there's a photo gallery so people can have a look what it looked like actually pretty nice pictures and yeah that's what you will going to find there.
[35:40.340 --> 35:42.620]  How many Americans showed up last time?
[35:42.700 --> 35:44.160]  Significant number or very few?
[35:44.440 --> 35:45.340]  How many Americans?
[35:46.560 --> 35:48.660]  I'm aware of at least 20.
[35:49.000 --> 35:49.440]  Okay.
[35:49.600 --> 35:55.820]  Yeah, 20 to 30 something like this could have been more but it was already more than we expected.
[35:56.780 --> 36:03.880]  Well, you know, I would hope that a lot more would show up this time only because the atmosphere is just so incredibly different over there.
[36:04.120 --> 36:28.860]  If the conferences like HAL are any indication it's just like night and day going to a conference in Europe and going to one here in this country and of course the chaos congresses that take place every December they're also very relaxed informative meet a lot of interesting people and I wish more Americans would go because I think they'd learn a lot and they'd come back feeling refreshed and
[36:28.860 --> 36:38.720]  invigorated inspired that kind of thing And so I'm hoping that the fact that you guys have made it easy to register now will convince a lot of people to go.
[36:40.060 --> 36:42.880]  Actually, quite a lot of Americans have already signed up.
[36:43.120 --> 36:48.540]  So I have every reason to believe there are many, many, many more coming than four years ago.
[36:48.900 --> 36:53.860]  I mean, when we started four years ago, nobody really knew what we were about to do.
[36:53.860 --> 36:59.080]  And we didn't really have the credibility of doing such a huge organization for this.
[36:59.080 --> 37:02.580]  And I think, I hope, it will be different this time.
[37:03.600 --> 37:06.920]  Anything special planned that was not done four years ago?
[37:08.420 --> 37:08.900]  Oh!
[37:10.380 --> 37:15.400]  I mean, there are these little details that didn't work out in the end.
[37:16.600 --> 37:19.140]  I mean, there were many, many smaller things.
[37:19.260 --> 37:21.180]  But in the end, we were pretty happy.
[37:21.200 --> 37:31.660]  It didn't really work out financially for us, but by the actual result of what was going on and how the event was accepted by the people who were pretty happy with it.
[37:32.440 --> 37:36.020]  Maybe Frank can give you an overview of what we're planning for.
[37:36.300 --> 37:37.180]  Yeah, okay, that'd be good.
[37:37.800 --> 37:39.680]  This time for the content.
[37:40.200 --> 37:40.400]  Okay.
[37:41.560 --> 37:47.480]  Basically, there will be three content tracks, or two, depending on how much submissions we get.
[37:48.140 --> 37:57.860]  We have a pretty busy schedule trying to figure out what kind of use and topics are going to be relevant in the next time.
[37:58.080 --> 38:09.080]  There will be a lot of talk, of course, about the TCPA and associated stuff that means the means of the content industry to getting control over our hardware and what they can do against it.
[38:10.000 --> 38:19.760]  We will have a pretty busy biometrics track where people are talking about what effects will have biometrics on a society and how to circumvent biometrics surveillance.
[38:20.560 --> 38:28.820]  We have, of course, a lot of, let's say, normal, hardcore hacker topics like kernel stuff, security stuff, and so on.
[38:28.860 --> 38:38.360]  But we always try to keep the focus a little bit wider and include topics that are not mainstream at the moment but that we feel that will be interesting in the next time.
[38:39.180 --> 38:43.860]  Now, you mentioned that depending on how many submissions you get, does that mean you're still accepting submissions?
[38:44.440 --> 38:45.260]  That's true, yeah.
[38:45.660 --> 38:54.980]  There is the address content at camp.ccc.de and we're still accepting submissions probably until two days before the camp.
[38:55.660 --> 38:58.600]  Slots are getting filled up, but there are still slots available.
[38:59.380 --> 38:59.760]  Okay.
[39:00.060 --> 39:05.500]  Now, for people that might not be into the whole camping scene, do they have any options?
[39:05.500 --> 39:08.540]  Are there places they can go that are nearby or a way to get there?
[39:10.160 --> 39:12.060]  I didn't get the last...
[39:12.480 --> 39:13.760]  Which options are you talking about?
[39:13.780 --> 39:17.760]  If people don't want to camp out, is there anything else they can do?
[39:17.900 --> 39:18.900]  Can they take a, you know...
[39:18.900 --> 39:26.660]  If they really don't want to camp, which I guess they really want, when they are there, I'm sure they don't want to leave.
[39:26.800 --> 39:27.720]  But there is...
[39:27.720 --> 39:29.640]  We're totally in the desert.
[39:29.800 --> 39:36.520]  There's a small town nearby, so there are hotel options for, well, anybody who wants that.
[39:36.700 --> 39:39.320]  Isn't there a shuttle or something that goes to a subway?
[39:42.880 --> 39:46.200]  Well, in the end, it's a camp, and we're trying to be a bit outside.
[39:47.340 --> 39:49.700]  No, there's no subway in reach.
[39:49.840 --> 39:54.560]  But if you want to get back to Berlin, it's not very problematic.
[39:54.880 --> 39:57.940]  We're still pretty close of the city.
[39:58.080 --> 40:02.020]  Although it doesn't really look as if we were close, we are pretty close.
[40:02.740 --> 40:03.660]  And there's...
[40:03.660 --> 40:10.700]  Well, we have a shuttle bus, and it's going to be operated, bringing you, well, to the next connection to the city center.
[40:10.920 --> 40:19.980]  So whenever you feel the urge to breathe in the city, you will have the chance to do that.
[40:20.120 --> 40:23.560]  Some of us live in Manhattan and just can't take too much clean air.
[40:23.800 --> 40:23.940]  Yeah.
[40:24.920 --> 40:28.220]  We need that, you know, that carbon monoxide, you know.
[40:28.400 --> 40:30.080]  Yeah, okay, we're going to take care of this.
[40:30.080 --> 40:32.100]  But we do everything for you.
[40:32.680 --> 40:33.100]  Great.
[40:33.340 --> 40:45.500]  Well, now, is there anything that you'd like to express to, you know, an American audience or an audience, you know, throughout the world, maybe just to make sure that more people show up and make this better than previous conferences?
[40:45.820 --> 40:47.180]  What can we do to help?
[40:47.680 --> 40:48.580]  Well, come.
[40:48.820 --> 40:52.320]  I mean, basically, coming is the best contribution you can do.
[40:52.540 --> 40:57.600]  We're still interested in new interesting topics when it comes to lectures, talks.
[40:57.600 --> 41:10.340]  That's really what I'd like to see, especially things that are probably, well, building new bridges, understanding what's going on at your place, which is sometimes a bit difficult, you know.
[41:10.340 --> 41:14.880]  And, well, Ani, do you have any...
[41:14.880 --> 41:16.280]  Ani has some extra comments.
[41:16.500 --> 41:17.040]  I'll hand you over.
[41:17.440 --> 41:17.680]  Okay.
[41:18.560 --> 41:22.020]  And it's also a great chance to visit old Europe, hey.
[41:22.340 --> 41:22.860]  Old Europe.
[41:22.900 --> 41:23.280]  Old Europe.
[41:23.880 --> 41:24.520]  Hey, I mean...
[41:24.520 --> 41:25.820]  We've heard so much about it.
[41:26.320 --> 41:26.580]  Yes.
[41:26.700 --> 41:29.480]  I noticed you've even put old Europe in the address, in parentheses.
[41:29.660 --> 41:32.140]  And, I mean, we still elect our government here.
[41:32.320 --> 41:35.360]  It's not like the United States where that goes over.
[41:35.360 --> 41:38.960]  Does such a system actually work where the people elect the government?
[41:39.680 --> 41:40.840]  Sounds kind of dangerous.
[41:41.020 --> 41:41.800]  Sounds very dangerous, in fact.
[41:41.800 --> 41:52.260]  Yes, I mean, let's say, like, the level of stimulation of democracy is still, let's say, it's a little bit more convincing here in some parameters.
[41:52.260 --> 41:55.160]  And there's other parameters where it's just the same.
[41:55.160 --> 41:58.620]  But, I guess, there are these small little differences.
[41:58.960 --> 42:12.000]  And I guess it's a real interesting time for Americans to come to old Europe, as well as it is for us Europeans to come to the United States right now and see a country that has changed over the last years as well.
[42:12.100 --> 42:15.860]  Well, you touched upon a very interesting point, because a number of people have expressed this concern to me.
[42:15.940 --> 42:18.280]  They think that the whole rest of the world hates us.
[42:18.780 --> 42:24.000]  Now, do people have to worry when it becomes known that they are Americans walking around in Europe?
[42:24.000 --> 42:31.160]  No, definitely not at the camp, because, I mean, it's really an intergalactic meeting of people.
[42:31.500 --> 42:37.600]  And we don't judge you by the government, because we know that you didn't deserve your government.
[42:37.600 --> 42:42.300]  I mean, it's just happened to you because, let's say, other reasons.
[42:42.620 --> 42:52.300]  And I guess you don't really have to worry here in Berlin, because in Berlin, there's so many American people live, and it's really a multicultural city.
[42:53.000 --> 43:09.920]  It's just the way that, of course, let's say, in some suburban areas, if you really want to convince people that it was a good idea for the United States government to, you know, go to Iraq and all that kind of bullshit, yeah, you might get into trouble.
[43:09.940 --> 43:14.180]  But I don't think that that's the kind of people who want to come to a camp, right?
[43:14.180 --> 43:16.600]  I don't think so, but you never know.
[43:16.940 --> 43:20.420]  You know, there's nothing wrong with a good debate now and then, but I'm not sure if that's really...
[43:20.420 --> 43:23.840]  Yeah, but, I mean, European people are pretty open.
[43:23.840 --> 43:32.840]  And, I mean, we have a culture of debate here and of discussion also, so don't be afraid of anyone hitting you.
[43:32.900 --> 43:33.640]  That will not be...
[43:33.640 --> 43:34.040]  No, no.
[43:34.660 --> 43:36.900]  The debate is something I think we should try here now and then.
[43:36.960 --> 43:37.400]  It would be nice.
[43:37.520 --> 43:37.960]  Yeah, right.
[43:38.140 --> 43:40.760]  We didn't really experience that on our last trip to Berlin.
[43:40.940 --> 43:42.900]  Well, we weren't preaching, like, Bush doctrine either.
[43:44.180 --> 43:46.740]  No one wants to stay here in Europe.
[43:46.920 --> 44:00.120]  Maybe we could even help you obtain a visa or, you know, we also thought about an immigration workshop because some Americans asked us if it would be possible to, you know, move over here because it seemed a little bit more relaxed.
[44:00.260 --> 44:08.160]  I mean, maybe it's a good chance to find out what's different here and if it's a good place and we might even help you to immigrate or whatever.
[44:08.680 --> 44:08.840]  Yeah.
[44:09.000 --> 44:15.540]  Well, you know, I'm going to be over there for over a month, not just in Germany, but traveling around through Russia and Belarus and places like that.
[44:16.100 --> 44:16.200]  Yeah.
[44:16.200 --> 44:22.740]  So, it's really going to be... you can attach this to something much bigger if you want to and I advise people to do that.
[44:22.860 --> 44:25.500]  It'll keep you sane or at least, you know, it'll make you think you're sane.
[44:26.220 --> 44:29.040]  A couple of questions from the people in the studio, then we're going to take some phone calls.
[44:29.140 --> 44:30.980]  212-209-2900.
[44:31.120 --> 44:31.720]  Leo, you first.
[44:31.720 --> 44:32.080]  Oh, yeah.
[44:32.460 --> 44:35.220]  What's the... like, how would you get food at the camp?
[44:35.380 --> 44:36.440]  Like, food or water?
[44:36.700 --> 44:37.240]  And water?
[44:38.580 --> 44:43.380]  We have... we will have some food... how you call it?
[44:43.900 --> 44:44.740]  Lots of food.
[44:44.840 --> 44:46.480]  So, food stands is not a problem.
[44:46.600 --> 44:47.280]  We have many there.
[44:47.660 --> 44:49.320]  Water and everything is there.
[44:49.420 --> 44:54.700]  So, you can either cook your own food or you can just buy food.
[44:55.560 --> 44:57.320]  And we have pizza there.
[44:57.460 --> 44:58.780]  We have vegetarian food there.
[44:58.880 --> 45:00.080]  We have all kinds of food there.
[45:00.180 --> 45:02.040]  So, that won't be any kind of problem.
[45:02.360 --> 45:06.860]  Of course, internet connectivity will be all over the place, including in the sea.
[45:07.500 --> 45:11.480]  So, you can have underwater internet if your equipment does it.
[45:11.800 --> 45:13.060]  Oh, I have to see that.
[45:13.280 --> 45:18.000]  I like how people put internet access on the same plane as food and water, but...
[45:18.000 --> 45:19.720]  Well, for some people, it is the same.
[45:19.920 --> 45:20.420]  Absolutely is.
[45:20.480 --> 45:20.960]  You're into that.
[45:21.080 --> 45:22.100]  Redhack, you've got something.
[45:22.260 --> 45:22.280]  What?
[45:22.280 --> 45:27.260]  I was just curious as to how many different countries or people from different countries will be represented at the camp.
[45:27.600 --> 45:29.240]  Oh, that's a difficult question.
[45:29.420 --> 45:33.760]  I mean, in European countries, the situation is different.
[45:34.120 --> 45:37.660]  The Italians seem to get more organized.
[45:37.920 --> 45:40.060]  Spanish, Bulgarian people are there.
[45:40.280 --> 45:45.860]  We have a larger group of Austrians coming over the place.
[45:46.040 --> 45:47.240]  Switzerland is there.
[45:47.420 --> 45:52.020]  So, it's kind of all European countries have sent their kind of group.
[45:53.220 --> 45:58.240]  Some of the groups are more, let's say, computer artists in their own definition.
[45:58.420 --> 45:59.380]  Some are more political.
[45:59.860 --> 46:02.540]  Others are more hardcore technical people.
[46:02.700 --> 46:09.940]  So, it's quite different, the hack is seen in Europe, how the local groups in the different countries make their turn.
[46:10.120 --> 46:15.320]  Do you get many people from, say, Poland, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, Russia, or Belarus?
[46:15.320 --> 46:17.900]  Because I'm going there, and I don't know anybody from any of those countries.
[46:18.160 --> 46:24.140]  Yeah, to be honest, the eastern part of Europe is developing right now.
[46:24.560 --> 46:38.880]  So, you have to acknowledge that their internet connection and their kind of network connectivity over the last years has been simply not there and start to exist over the last few years only.
[46:38.880 --> 46:41.200]  So, that doesn't mean they are behind.
[46:41.200 --> 46:45.680]  It doesn't mean just they are different in their technical approach sometimes.
[46:46.220 --> 46:50.060]  And the first contexts are established to people over there.
[46:50.240 --> 46:54.740]  And we know that the camp is well known there in what we do.
[46:54.960 --> 47:00.780]  So, it's going to be a surprise for us as well how many from that kind of countries will appear, actually.
[47:00.780 --> 47:12.480]  Yeah, it's really, you know, if you've ever been to a conference, this is something that's more like, you know, meeting people for the first time from different cultures, different lands, people who are just getting into the whole internet world right now.
[47:12.600 --> 47:17.540]  So, it's a lot more, you know, the feeling of discovery is there because you actually are experiencing something new.
[47:17.700 --> 47:22.260]  Yeah, you're seeing some old friends too, but it's more like you're seeing new things as well.
[47:22.320 --> 47:29.400]  And I think we lose that in the States a lot because we tend to see the same people, you know, time after time, and not enough new people.
[47:29.400 --> 47:30.660]  And that's very important.
[47:30.940 --> 47:36.300]  And also, what's maybe important to say about the Eastern Bloc, they have interesting situations there.
[47:36.460 --> 47:42.420]  For example, some countries are not so much technically behind, but they have not really heard about copyright law.
[47:42.780 --> 47:44.060]  So, that's kind of interesting.
[47:44.060 --> 47:46.760]  Will those people bring when coming to a conference?
[47:47.720 --> 47:50.260]  Yeah, yeah, I'd like to see that perspective there.
[47:50.680 --> 47:50.760]  Yeah.
[47:50.940 --> 47:53.700]  All right, let's take some phone calls, 212-209-2900.
[47:53.860 --> 47:55.660]  Let's go up here.
[47:55.660 --> 48:02.520]  We're with the folks over at Chaos in Germany, talking about the Chaos Camp, which takes place August 7th, 8th, 9th, and 10th.
[48:02.600 --> 48:05.240]  Oh, and by the way, people are welcome to come early, right, and help set up?
[48:05.940 --> 48:06.800]  Yeah, of course.
[48:07.040 --> 48:07.400]  Okay.
[48:07.440 --> 48:07.620]  They are.
[48:07.820 --> 48:10.520]  And how can they get more information on that, just on the website?
[48:11.260 --> 48:12.040]  It's on the website.
[48:12.260 --> 48:26.980]  I mean, we've got basic information on the main website, and there's a link to our wiki system, which provides even more in-depth information, and there's a chance for everybody who's doing some kind of project to, well, document what it's about to do,
[48:27.060 --> 48:34.260]  or just, well, look for information of other projects happening, so...
[48:34.260 --> 48:35.780]  Yeah, that wiki system is really cool.
[48:35.900 --> 48:37.720]  I was playing with it, and it's really a lot of fun.
[48:38.340 --> 48:38.600]  Mm-hmm.
[48:38.600 --> 48:43.660]  So let's take a phone call, 212-209-2900, and good evening.
[48:43.820 --> 48:44.260]  You're on the air.
[48:44.460 --> 48:44.860]  Good evening.
[48:45.080 --> 48:45.540]  How are you doing?
[48:45.680 --> 48:56.360]  I'm an American who has done some camping in Berlin many years ago, and I can wholeheartedly recommend, especially in the month of August, that people go there for the weather, et cetera.
[48:56.680 --> 48:58.500]  I am missing something here.
[48:58.680 --> 49:06.360]  What areas of subject matter will be covered at this camping convention?
[49:08.600 --> 49:09.020]  Guys?
[49:09.860 --> 49:10.300]  What?
[49:11.300 --> 49:17.400]  Well, we're trying to cover the classic hacker lineup of topics like...
[49:17.400 --> 49:20.280]  Oh, it's like in the electronic era.
[49:20.960 --> 49:23.500]  Subjects related to the electronic era?
[49:23.660 --> 49:26.060]  Well, computer hacking, computers, Internet, that kind of thing.
[49:26.220 --> 49:26.700]  Okay, all right.
[49:26.800 --> 49:27.620]  I didn't get that.
[49:27.620 --> 49:28.040]  Oh, okay.
[49:28.220 --> 49:28.860]  I got that.
[49:28.980 --> 49:29.660]  I thought that was obvious.
[49:29.660 --> 49:32.380]  Berlin is quite an extraordinary city.
[49:32.600 --> 49:33.260]  Certainly is.
[49:33.420 --> 49:34.000]  Yes, bye-bye.
[49:34.200 --> 49:35.000]  All right, thanks for calling.
[49:35.000 --> 49:39.040]  Well, Berlin is an amazing city, especially if you like New York.
[49:39.220 --> 49:45.300]  I think Berlin is something that a lot of people will feel, you know, something for as soon as they arrive.
[49:45.840 --> 49:47.200]  We should get back to the website again.
[49:47.200 --> 49:47.880]  Sorry, the website?
[49:47.980 --> 49:54.640]  Yeah, the website is www.ccc.de, and we're talking about the Chaos Communications Camp.
[49:54.920 --> 49:58.500]  Yeah, I'll put a slash camp at the end of that, too, if you want to go directly to the camp bar.
[49:58.600 --> 49:59.720]  All right, let's take another phone call.
[50:00.260 --> 50:01.060]  And good evening.
[50:01.400 --> 50:01.900]  You're on...
[50:01.900 --> 50:03.140]  No, I lost that one.
[50:03.200 --> 50:03.480]  Good evening.
[50:03.480 --> 50:04.240]  You're on the air.
[50:04.780 --> 50:07.480]  Yeah, I wish I could afford to go to another country, but...
[50:07.480 --> 50:09.140]  No, you know, it's good that you can't, actually.
[50:09.240 --> 50:10.100]  Let's go over here.
[50:10.340 --> 50:10.720]  Good evening.
[50:10.800 --> 50:11.420]  You're on the air.
[50:12.040 --> 50:13.720]  Ah, well, it's better than the last one.
[50:13.900 --> 50:14.440]  Good evening.
[50:14.500 --> 50:15.020]  You're on the air.
[50:16.000 --> 50:17.040]  Yes, Bernie S.
[50:18.280 --> 50:24.780]  I've used my MCI calling card and MCI standalone calling card.
[50:24.780 --> 50:33.820]  And with both cards, the number would show up on people's caller ID, even though I'm calling MCI's 800 number.
[50:34.040 --> 50:39.780]  Oh, well, if you buy a prepaid calling card, you may not have that problem, because I tested it, and it did not pass my number.
[50:40.000 --> 50:40.340]  Okay.
[50:40.480 --> 50:41.360]  Prepaid is different.
[50:41.520 --> 50:42.140]  Thank you so much.
[50:42.460 --> 50:43.540]  Thanks for the call.
[50:43.540 --> 50:45.580]  Well, let's go over here.
[50:45.900 --> 50:46.680]  And good evening.
[50:46.800 --> 50:47.200]  You're on the air.
[50:47.940 --> 50:48.260]  All right.
[50:48.320 --> 50:49.020]  Let's go over here.
[50:49.360 --> 50:49.960]  Good evening.
[50:50.060 --> 50:50.560]  You're on the air.
[50:51.340 --> 50:51.700]  Hi.
[50:52.120 --> 50:52.480]  How are you doing?
[50:52.940 --> 50:53.340]  Okay.
[50:54.740 --> 51:01.540]  I'm calling because earlier on, did you mention that it had a block of your number from being seen?
[51:01.760 --> 51:02.600]  Do you know how to do that?
[51:02.940 --> 51:07.320]  Well, that you just dial star six, seven, or you ask your phone company to put you on block.
[51:07.500 --> 51:07.700]  Okay.
[51:07.760 --> 51:20.500]  What I really want to talk about is that Verizon, whom I'm a customer of, lists your telephone number if it's, you know, published, allowed to be published.
[51:20.640 --> 51:21.760]  Otherwise, it doesn't get listed.
[51:22.000 --> 51:35.640]  However, when you dial directory assistants for anywhere, whether it's in the United States or local, and they're not Verizon customers, they don't list their names of these people.
[51:35.640 --> 51:54.420]  So then I have to do another kind of dialing, because MCI and Sprint, and any other primary carriers will not tell their customers that they can have their telephone numbers listed with Verizon's directory assistants.
[51:55.080 --> 51:56.160]  Did you know that?
[51:56.240 --> 51:56.760]  No, I did not.
[51:56.960 --> 51:57.300]  Yes.
[51:57.500 --> 52:11.220]  And I found out through the supervisor, because I said, listen, I just got the number by dialing the area code, 1-800, then the area code, and I got, you know, 555, blah, blah.
[52:11.440 --> 52:15.860]  And I said, I got it, and how come you don't have it?
[52:15.860 --> 52:35.320]  And she told me, if they do not list, if they are not Verizon customers, and Sprint and MTI or other primary carriers do not tell their customers, because the primary carriers, it would cost them to list their customers with Verizon's directory assistants,
[52:35.400 --> 52:35.720]  say.
[52:35.720 --> 52:38.600]  So it's not equal treatment for people of different companies.
[52:38.960 --> 52:40.180]  Absolutely, absolutely.
[52:40.520 --> 52:41.360]  All right, thanks for the info.
[52:41.500 --> 52:41.940]  Sure, bye.
[52:42.240 --> 52:46.780]  And as you can tell, we've been talking about a lot of different subjects, trying to cram everything in.
[52:46.980 --> 52:51.020]  So that's why we're getting some calls that aren't necessarily related to the CCC camp.
[52:51.760 --> 53:05.420]  But if you do have questions about the CCC camp, or just something that you'd like to talk to our guests about, who are Tim, Frank, and Andy from the Chaos Communications Club over there in Berlin, please give us a call, 212-209-2900.
[53:05.520 --> 53:10.600]  We're only on for a couple more minutes, and we're not on next week, so please make those phone calls now.
[53:11.100 --> 53:12.720]  Bernie, do you have any questions or comments?
[53:13.420 --> 53:14.820]  I just want to make a comment.
[53:15.040 --> 53:27.920]  Having gone to the CCC Congress last year, and Hal the year before that, it's really just a breathtaking and mind-expanding experience to go to old Europe, as Bush would call it.
[53:28.360 --> 53:29.980]  Or actually, that was Rumsfeld, wasn't it?
[53:31.160 --> 53:43.100]  Because it just seems such more of an open society, and it's less fear and paranoia, and more of an open exchange of ideas, I've found.
[53:43.220 --> 53:45.960]  And, you know, there's a way that you can use that in a very positive sense.
[53:45.980 --> 53:48.200]  A lot of people say, oh, you're just spouting anti-American rhetoric.
[53:48.500 --> 53:57.120]  But, you know, you go somewhere, you see how people do things, you like the way they do things, and you bring that home, and you figure out a way to make it work here.
[53:57.260 --> 53:58.320]  Hey, speak for yourself.
[53:58.320 --> 53:59.840]  I'm spouting anti-American rhetoric.
[53:59.840 --> 54:00.860]  Well, go ahead and spout.
[54:01.060 --> 54:02.840]  But, you know, you don't have to.
[54:03.020 --> 54:03.600]  It's not mandatory.
[54:03.720 --> 54:11.380]  And the great thing about Europe is the fact that, you know, different countries and all these different cultures are as far away as, for us, different states.
[54:11.620 --> 54:18.940]  So, really, you've got all these different cultures in one place, and they can all get together right outside Berlin and meet.
[54:19.080 --> 54:26.020]  Yeah, and it's, you know, imagine if every state in the Union spoke a completely different language, and yet somehow we were all able to, like, get along and understand each other.
[54:26.020 --> 54:27.540]  So, that's pretty important.
[54:27.760 --> 54:28.720]  Let's try to take some more phone calls.
[54:28.980 --> 54:29.520]  Good evening.
[54:29.660 --> 54:30.220]  You're on the air.
[54:30.980 --> 54:31.300]  Okay.
[54:31.320 --> 54:32.260]  We don't want that phone call.
[54:33.080 --> 54:34.180]  And let's try this one here.
[54:34.300 --> 54:34.560]  Good evening.
[54:34.620 --> 54:35.140]  You're on the air.
[54:35.680 --> 54:36.520]  Yes, I'd like to...
[54:36.520 --> 54:37.640]  Please stop calling us.
[54:37.760 --> 54:38.160]  Good evening.
[54:38.420 --> 54:39.120]  You're on the air.
[54:40.280 --> 54:40.960]  Go ahead.
[54:41.700 --> 54:42.400]  Hi, Emmanuel.
[54:42.520 --> 54:43.000]  This is Lynn.
[54:43.120 --> 54:44.240]  I was up there a few weeks ago.
[54:44.360 --> 54:52.780]  Just wanted to say hi and wish that I could go to the chaos conference, but I wanted to throw in one thing.
[54:53.500 --> 55:01.760]  AT&T also does a similar type of thing, but with their prepaid card.
[55:01.760 --> 55:09.540]  But I had sent you an email about the Nextel and Verizon push-to-talk thing.
[55:09.720 --> 55:11.580]  I didn't know if you wanted to get into that or not.
[55:11.820 --> 55:15.460]  Probably not tonight, only because we're trying to focus on the chaos camp.
[55:15.860 --> 55:17.540]  This is Lynn from the Atlanta Freenet Project?
[55:17.940 --> 55:18.340]  Yeah.
[55:18.700 --> 55:19.100]  Oh, yeah.
[55:19.220 --> 55:19.920]  Great to have you back.
[55:20.540 --> 55:23.600]  Yeah, and by the way, I'm coming in over Vonage, so...
[55:24.120 --> 55:24.580]  Oh, really?
[55:24.660 --> 55:25.280]  How is that system?
[55:25.300 --> 55:25.660]  Just to plug it.
[55:26.560 --> 55:28.160]  It sounds like a normal phone connection.
[55:28.920 --> 55:29.600]  Well, yeah.
[55:29.600 --> 55:32.120]  Yeah, it works pretty good.
[55:32.340 --> 55:34.300]  That, of course, is the system where...
[55:34.300 --> 55:35.900]  What's it known for, mostly?
[55:36.640 --> 55:44.860]  It's a SIP-based voiceover IP using a Cisco ATA adapter.
[55:45.260 --> 55:45.680]  Mm-hmm.
[55:45.980 --> 55:48.680]  And it works very well, actually.
[55:49.280 --> 55:51.580]  It has some interesting things.
[55:51.840 --> 55:56.160]  Number one is your ANI is definitely manipulated.
[55:57.340 --> 56:01.000]  It does not give the proper ANI information to whoever you're calling.
[56:01.140 --> 56:04.140]  Well, you can get a phone number for, say, California in New York City, right?
[56:04.140 --> 56:04.980]  That's the other thing.
[56:05.080 --> 56:11.580]  Well, actually, and also you can have a virtual telephone number, multiple virtual telephone numbers.
[56:11.680 --> 56:17.620]  So I actually have one for Atlanta, even though I'm not in Atlanta, and one for my local area.
[56:17.620 --> 56:20.620]  And every one of those you want to add is $5.
[56:21.140 --> 56:28.600]  Now, your outbound caller ID, if you choose not to suppress it, will be whatever your primary number is.
[56:28.720 --> 56:42.060]  But there's also a new company that I don't know too much about that's offering it for $10 less a month, which is called Packet 8, P-A-C-K, whatever, 8, the number 8, .com.
[56:42.160 --> 56:48.580]  I'd like to talk about this a lot further, but let's do it in a couple of weeks so we can focus more on the chaos thing right now.
[56:50.240 --> 56:53.160]  Yeah, and I certainly wish I could make it over there.
[56:53.220 --> 56:57.260]  It sounds like it would be a great conference to make.
[56:57.480 --> 56:58.660]  You're going to miss a good time.
[56:58.800 --> 56:59.660]  Yeah, well, you know...
[56:59.660 --> 57:00.860]  Yeah, I am going to miss a good time.
[57:00.860 --> 57:01.720]  Do whatever you can.
[57:01.780 --> 57:04.060]  Do whatever you can to get over there.
[57:04.620 --> 57:06.660]  But anyway, I'll give you guys a call another time.
[57:06.900 --> 57:07.060]  Yeah.
[57:07.340 --> 57:11.260]  Bernie, I may be in your neck of the woods next week, so I'll send you an email.
[57:11.800 --> 57:12.120]  Okay.
[57:12.540 --> 57:13.120]  Thanks for calling.
[57:13.600 --> 57:15.660]  Let's try and get a couple more calls in here.
[57:15.660 --> 57:17.820]  Hopefully some questions for the guys online.
[57:18.140 --> 57:19.080]  Let's go over here.
[57:19.160 --> 57:19.460]  Good evening.
[57:19.580 --> 57:20.060]  You're on the air.
[57:20.800 --> 57:22.140]  Man, what's going on here?
[57:22.160 --> 57:22.420]  Good evening.
[57:22.480 --> 57:22.920]  You're on the air.
[57:23.620 --> 57:24.420]  Wow, three in a row.
[57:24.860 --> 57:25.380]  Okay, good evening.
[57:25.460 --> 57:25.920]  You're on the air.
[57:26.700 --> 57:28.300]  Yes, Bernie, a question for you.
[57:28.480 --> 57:30.760]  You know, what do we have to get a court order against?
[57:30.860 --> 57:31.160]  This guy?
[57:31.440 --> 57:32.060]  Good evening.
[57:32.240 --> 57:32.960]  You're on the air.
[57:34.300 --> 57:34.780]  Go ahead.
[57:34.980 --> 57:35.540]  Yes, go ahead.
[57:35.640 --> 57:36.100]  Where are you calling from?
[57:36.180 --> 57:36.540]  Oh, sorry.
[57:36.620 --> 57:38.980]  Yeah, I'm on the Long Island Expressway.
[57:39.100 --> 57:39.600]  Oh, good.
[57:39.720 --> 57:40.260]  Well, be careful.
[57:40.940 --> 57:41.280]  Thank you.
[57:41.640 --> 57:49.160]  I was curious, at the camp, is there anything on the agenda related to penetrating wireless networks or quantum encryption?
[57:52.220 --> 57:53.400]  What kind of encryption?
[57:53.700 --> 57:54.040]  What's the last?
[57:54.440 --> 57:54.820]  Quantum.
[57:55.900 --> 57:56.280]  Sorry?
[57:56.620 --> 57:57.400]  Quantum encryption?
[57:57.640 --> 57:58.080]  That's what you asked.
[57:58.080 --> 58:10.060]  Yeah, there will be a topic cluster with about three or four lectures, depending on what we get, focusing on quantum encryption and quantum computers for decryption matters.
[58:10.980 --> 58:22.980]  We're trying to actually get one of the groups that is doing free space laser quantum encryption stuff to set up one of their experiments on the camp.
[58:22.980 --> 58:24.160]  But that's the answer at the moment.
[58:24.620 --> 58:24.840]  Wow.
[58:25.560 --> 58:26.320]  Does that answer your question?
[58:26.720 --> 58:27.440]  Yes, it does.
[58:27.540 --> 58:28.160]  Thank you very much.
[58:28.240 --> 58:28.440]  All right.
[58:28.500 --> 58:29.020]  Drive carefully.
[58:29.580 --> 58:32.320]  And that's all the time we have for phone calls.
[58:32.540 --> 58:40.600]  Guys, as far as the registration information goes, www.ccc.de slash what?
[58:41.800 --> 58:42.340]  Slash camp.
[58:42.560 --> 58:43.040]  Slash camp.
[58:43.040 --> 58:44.680]  You mean the registration server?
[58:44.900 --> 58:48.380]  Well, everything you need is on the website, so this is just the easiest.
[58:48.380 --> 58:50.240]  Okay, so you can register directly through there.
[58:50.620 --> 58:55.480]  Again, the camp takes place August 7th, 8th, 9th, and 10th near Berlin.
[58:55.500 --> 58:55.860]  What day?
[58:56.780 --> 58:58.380]  It's well worth going to.
[58:58.560 --> 59:00.200]  Any more information can be found on that website.
[59:00.600 --> 59:03.380]  We can be emailed, othat2600.com.
[59:03.500 --> 59:08.120]  As mentioned earlier, we are unfortunately going to be preempted next week.
[59:08.440 --> 59:12.880]  We should be back again in another week after that.
[59:12.960 --> 59:14.420]  And hopefully it won't be preempted the week after that.
[59:14.460 --> 59:14.880]  We'll see.
[59:15.040 --> 59:15.460]  We'll see.
[59:16.480 --> 59:18.420]  BAI is always in flux, you know.
[59:18.880 --> 59:23.940]  So, until then, Emanuel Goldstein, for everybody else, have yourselves a good night.
[59:24.440 --> 59:26.720]  And stay tuned for the personal computer show.
[59:27.060 --> 59:27.720]  Good night.
[59:40.020 --> 59:40.400]  Together.
[59:41.200 --> 59:43.480]  We will go our way.
[59:44.020 --> 59:44.340]  Together.
[59:45.140 --> 59:47.120]  We will lead someday.
[59:48.060 --> 59:48.400]  Together.
[59:49.300 --> 59:51.540]  Your hand in my hand.
[59:52.040 --> 59:52.320]  Together.
[59:53.040 --> 59:55.200]  We will make our plans.
[59:55.940 --> 59:56.360]  Together.
[59:56.800 --> 59:59.560]  We will fly so high.
[59:59.980 --> 01:00:00.380]  Together.
[01:00:00.980 --> 01:00:03.060]  Tell all our friends goodbye.
[01:00:03.900 --> 01:00:04.320]  Together.
[01:00:04.940 --> 01:00:07.260]  We will start life new.
[01:00:07.920 --> 01:00:08.240]  Together.
[01:00:09.040 --> 01:00:11.140]  This is what we'll do.
[01:00:11.480 --> 01:00:11.800]  Go.
[01:00:43.320 --> 01:00:43.900]  Together.
[01:00:44.720 --> 01:00:47.160]  We will love the beach.
[01:00:47.540 --> 01:00:47.960]  Together.
[01:00:48.520 --> 01:00:50.940]  We will learn and teach.
[01:00:51.540 --> 01:00:51.940]  Together.
[01:00:52.780 --> 01:00:54.980]  Change our pace of life.
[01:00:55.420 --> 01:00:55.940]  Together.
[01:00:55.940 --> 01:00:58.940]  We will walk and try.
[01:01:00.360 --> 01:01:02.320]  I know you love.
[01:01:16.220 --> 01:01:18.840]  Life is peaceful there.
[01:01:32.360 --> 01:01:34.560]  Sun in wintertime.
[01:01:36.040 --> 01:01:38.560]  We will do just fine.
[01:01:47.910 --> 01:01:50.330]  There where the air is free.
[01:01:50.770 --> 01:01:54.430]  We'll be what we want to be.
[01:01:55.510 --> 01:01:58.470]  Now if we make a stand.
[01:01:58.750 --> 01:01:59.470]  We'll...
[01:02:04.010 --> 01:02:06.890]  There are many ways.
[01:02:07.030 --> 01:02:07.610]  There is there.
[01:02:08.170 --> 01:02:10.410]  In the sun or shade.
[01:02:11.070 --> 01:02:11.410]  Yes.
[01:02:11.830 --> 01:02:14.830]  We will find a place.
[01:02:15.030 --> 01:02:15.270]  Set.
[01:02:15.870 --> 01:02:18.490]  Where there's so much space.
[01:02:19.010 --> 01:02:19.490]  Without rush.
[01:02:19.990 --> 01:02:22.330]  And the pace back east.
[01:02:22.790 --> 01:02:23.310]  Wrestling.
[01:02:23.950 --> 01:02:26.210]  Wrestling just to face.
[01:02:26.870 --> 01:02:27.550]  I don't want it.
[01:02:28.010 --> 01:02:30.030]  Ready to lead too.
[01:02:30.790 --> 01:02:31.590]  So that's what...
[01:02:31.590 --> 01:02:34.130]  We are going to do.
[01:02:46.060 --> 01:02:48.000]  Where the sky is all blue.
[01:03:00.410 --> 01:03:06.850]  You're listening to WBAI New York 99.5 FM on your stereo dial.
[01:03:07.590 --> 01:03:08.630]  And say to...
[01:03:08.630 --> 01:03:11.650]  It is now July 9th, 2003.
[01:03:12.370 --> 01:03:13.170]  8 p.m.
[01:03:13.270 --> 01:03:13.830]  Exactly.
[01:03:13.830 --> 01:03:15.670]  And...
[01:03:15.670 --> 01:03:18.250]  This is the award-winning...
[01:03:18.250 --> 01:03:22.890]  This is the award-winning...
[01:03:22.890 --> 01:03:27.070]  Personal Computer Show.
[01:03:29.150 --> 01:03:30.550]  Ah...
[01:03:30.550 --> 01:03:31.070]  That's right.
[01:03:31.070 --> 01:03:31.110]  And helpful.
[01:03:31.110 --> 01:03:31.130]  Interesting.
[01:03:31.130 --> 01:03:31.170]  A happyyan.
[01:03:31.170 --> 01:03:31.330]  Eight 50 A.m.
[01:03:31.670 --> 01:03:32.170]  Guess you?