[00:00.000 --> 00:02.280]  That's the reason for the rush.
[00:02.500 --> 00:07.840]  The mad dash for war that couldn't wait for weapons inspectors, the U.N., anybody.
[00:08.200 --> 00:12.640]  Now we find manufactured evidence fed to the U.S.
[00:12.700 --> 00:13.120]  from Britain.
[00:13.400 --> 00:15.240]  It was designed to push U.S.
[00:15.320 --> 00:16.240]  citizens to fear.
[00:16.560 --> 00:17.620]  And guess what?
[00:17.780 --> 00:18.380]  It worked.
[00:18.760 --> 00:20.960]  The war was easily started.
[00:21.340 --> 00:23.260]  But it ain't so easy to end.
[00:23.680 --> 00:27.060]  From Death Row, this is Mumia Abu Jamal.
[00:28.660 --> 00:32.600]  These commentaries are produced by Noel Hanrahan for Prison Radio.
[00:32.820 --> 00:36.120]  For Free Speech Radio News, I am Ian Forrest.
[00:36.360 --> 00:41.920]  Visit online www.fsrn.org.
[00:42.280 --> 00:49.400]  And this is radio station WBAI, where it's 7.01 time for Off the Hook.
[01:00.560 --> 01:01.940]  I caught myself while shaving.
[01:02.600 --> 01:04.460]  Now I can't make a call.
[01:05.240 --> 01:07.260]  We couldn't get much worse.
[01:07.960 --> 01:09.820]  But if they could, they would.
[01:10.080 --> 01:12.720]  From Diddley Bom for the best, expect the worst.
[01:13.380 --> 01:15.220]  I hope that's understood.
[01:15.420 --> 01:16.260]  From Diddley Bom.
[01:54.810 --> 01:55.990]  And a good evening to everybody.
[01:56.070 --> 01:56.690]  The program is Off the Hook.
[01:56.690 --> 02:00.890]  Emmanuel Goldstein here with you on this, what is it, Wednesday night, right, Jeff?
[02:01.150 --> 02:01.710]  Yeah, it's Wednesday.
[02:01.830 --> 02:01.970]  Okay.
[02:02.210 --> 02:02.710]  It's Wednesday.
[02:02.730 --> 02:03.250]  It's Wednesday.
[02:03.390 --> 02:03.870]  That's good.
[02:03.950 --> 02:07.470]  It's been quite a day, quite a hectic day here in New York.
[02:07.650 --> 02:09.450]  It's pretty unbelievable.
[02:09.710 --> 02:11.230]  Some of the things have been happening.
[02:11.430 --> 02:16.570]  For those that don't know, it's been mayhem, a shooting inside City Hall.
[02:16.570 --> 02:18.750]  Not outside, inside this time.
[02:19.830 --> 02:26.130]  And, you know, I guess I have to go into my usual spiel about how security on Wall Street is absolutely insane.
[02:26.170 --> 02:29.410]  But today, it's crazy.
[02:29.690 --> 02:31.250]  Did you see the guys coming in today?
[02:31.530 --> 02:31.730]  Yeah.
[02:32.090 --> 02:35.030]  Helmeted people with machine guns all over the place.
[02:35.330 --> 02:38.470]  And the thing is, there's no reason for it.
[02:38.470 --> 02:45.750]  This was a case of people who had a kind of a history inside, inside City Hall, had nothing to do with terrorism.
[02:46.470 --> 02:51.930]  And somehow, they're, you know, increasing security like it's going to do anything.
[02:52.210 --> 02:53.110]  You know, this kind of thing.
[02:53.330 --> 02:56.190]  The thing that happened today in City Hall was because they didn't have security.
[02:56.370 --> 02:57.590]  Not because security failed.
[02:58.050 --> 02:59.110]  Somebody got by security.
[02:59.190 --> 03:00.250]  They didn't have security.
[03:00.370 --> 03:00.630]  No, no.
[03:01.870 --> 03:02.470]  What do you mean no, no?
[03:02.470 --> 03:04.030]  I heard the guy...
[03:04.030 --> 03:04.310]  Hold on.
[03:04.490 --> 03:06.050]  Jim just said no, no.
[03:06.110 --> 03:06.390]  What do you mean?
[03:06.390 --> 03:09.030]  No, it's not a case of no security.
[03:09.030 --> 03:12.990]  It's a case of the perpetrator more or less being exempt from security.
[03:13.010 --> 03:14.450]  That's what I mean by no security.
[03:14.590 --> 03:15.690]  That's not the same thing.
[03:15.850 --> 03:16.270]  Yes, it is.
[03:16.330 --> 03:20.570]  If someone is exempt from security, security has failed because that person could be a suspect.
[03:20.730 --> 03:25.480]  For instance, if you have people in airports going by security that are for some reason...
[03:25.930 --> 03:27.030]  Sky marshals, for example.
[03:27.250 --> 03:32.410]  You know, everybody should be expected to, you know, to pass some kind of a test, right?
[03:32.530 --> 03:33.750]  I mean, stewardesses, for instance.
[03:34.290 --> 03:35.670]  Could you not have a terrorist stewardess?
[03:35.670 --> 03:36.310]  I think you could.
[03:36.470 --> 03:39.330]  I mean, it would be a great plot for a book or a movie, don't you think?
[03:39.690 --> 03:40.570]  Yeah, so...
[03:40.570 --> 03:41.690]  I think I dated one.
[03:41.850 --> 03:43.410]  I've had a terrorist stewardess too, yeah.
[03:43.470 --> 03:45.910]  Why not subject people to...
[03:45.910 --> 03:48.350]  You know, everyone should be subjected to the same kind of scrutiny, I think.
[03:48.370 --> 03:49.250]  I think it's only fair.
[03:49.450 --> 03:51.830]  You know, nobody is above and beyond.
[03:52.050 --> 03:54.730]  You know, the councilman who got killed today, he had a gun too.
[03:55.010 --> 03:56.150]  That shouldn't have been allowed.
[03:56.250 --> 03:57.510]  It didn't help him any, for sure.
[03:57.510 --> 03:59.610]  But he actually was a retired police officer.
[03:59.730 --> 04:04.910]  Retired police officers shouldn't be walking around, you know, places with guns because they wound up firing them.
[04:05.050 --> 04:08.810]  I heard downstairs he vouched for the shooter so that the shooter could go around.
[04:08.830 --> 04:10.490]  And their judgment is often impaired too.
[04:10.710 --> 04:12.330]  So you see, this is the kind of thing that happens.
[04:12.450 --> 04:13.230]  No security.
[04:13.350 --> 04:14.650]  Security is particularly bad.
[04:14.750 --> 04:14.890]  Yes.
[04:15.230 --> 04:16.490]  Hold on, I've got to figure out what Mike you are.
[04:16.550 --> 04:17.050]  Jeff, there you go.
[04:17.190 --> 04:22.950]  He not only vouched for the shooter, the shooter was a guest of his in the chamber.
[04:22.950 --> 04:25.730]  The shooter was also a political rival of his, and apparently that...
[04:25.730 --> 04:27.570]  That, I think, is the telling part.
[04:28.910 --> 04:30.070]  It's pretty unbelievable.
[04:30.290 --> 04:38.790]  So, yeah, if you see anybody using this as an excuse to increase security, give them a good slap because it's got nothing to do with, you know, with security in the streets.
[04:38.790 --> 04:44.710]  It's got to do with a very poorly executed security plan that should never have been implemented in the first place.
[04:44.850 --> 04:48.450]  You know, either you check everybody or you check nobody, you know, one way or the other.
[04:48.530 --> 04:52.410]  Because we live in a very violent society and nobody is exempt from that.
[04:52.410 --> 04:56.130]  You have, you know, cops with uniforms shooting people without cause.
[04:56.270 --> 04:57.910]  You have cops without uniforms doing it.
[04:57.950 --> 04:59.210]  You have regular people in the streets.
[04:59.290 --> 05:04.190]  You have, you know, all kinds of people are subjected to violent thoughts and behavior.
[05:04.950 --> 05:08.010]  So, if you're going to scrutinize us, scrutinize everybody.
[05:08.190 --> 05:09.530]  That's the way I look at it.
[05:09.870 --> 05:11.130]  And today is living proof of that.
[05:11.250 --> 05:14.890]  Anyway, I don't want to spend the show talking about that, but that's just some of the craziness that was going on.
[05:14.970 --> 05:16.330]  It makes things very difficult to get around.
[05:16.330 --> 05:21.510]  The thing that, just to stand for a little while longer, I was watching the media earlier today.
[05:21.690 --> 05:23.270]  And, of course, they got everything wrong.
[05:23.970 --> 05:28.830]  They were saying how this guy was killed and the gunman was at large.
[05:29.030 --> 05:29.970]  The gunman was at large.
[05:30.070 --> 05:31.370]  They closed down the bridges.
[05:31.430 --> 05:34.590]  They were closing subway stations looking for this guy.
[05:34.590 --> 05:47.410]  And, you know, the first thing I thought when I looked at the reports, the reports said that the councilman was killed and there was more gunfire and somebody else was shot as well.
[05:47.450 --> 05:51.550]  And I was saying to myself, well, could that maybe be the person who was shooting was also shot?
[05:51.550 --> 05:52.270]  Was that possible?
[05:52.810 --> 05:55.490]  And they didn't even broach that subject for many hours.
[05:55.490 --> 06:05.190]  And instead, they caused a panic saying that the guy was still at large when it was pretty obvious to me and anybody else reading the story that it was quite likely that the second victim was the shooter himself.
[06:05.550 --> 06:14.170]  Just based on the way things played out when there was like, you know, more gunfire from other sources, such as undercover cops and things like that, it's quite likely that's who they hit.
[06:14.950 --> 06:15.550]  But so.
[06:15.930 --> 06:16.470]  So, yeah.
[06:16.630 --> 06:21.390]  And then they they they just kept misreporting things, saying all kinds of New York.
[06:21.530 --> 06:23.770]  One was reporting the guy killed himself, which, of course, didn't happen.
[06:25.770 --> 06:30.570]  It's just it's really crazy to watch the media and see how how they completely distort the facts and get things wrong.
[06:30.810 --> 06:35.270]  And then what they did to the guy's brother, you know, the councilman's brother, if you get a chance, watch the news tonight.
[06:35.270 --> 06:47.390]  And you'll see this poor guy's brother, who is obviously, you know, very much in shock and in grief, just being berated by reporters who are telling him in the middle of a statement, could you turn around and face the camera?
[06:47.470 --> 06:51.190]  You know, he's talking to a crowd of people and he doesn't know which way the camera is.
[06:51.270 --> 06:52.990]  He's talking to a crowd of people about his brother.
[06:53.310 --> 07:00.530]  And they're interrupting him in the middle of his words to say, could you face the camera so that we can get you on, you know, Channel five and New York one and all that kind of thing.
[07:00.530 --> 07:03.790]  And then they keep asking him the question over and over again, what was your brother like?
[07:04.870 --> 07:05.870]  What was your brother?
[07:05.930 --> 07:07.690]  I mean, how do you put that into words?
[07:07.850 --> 07:11.970]  You know, you just lost your brother and they want you to just describe him in a sound bite.
[07:12.590 --> 07:14.370]  It's really sick what they do to people.
[07:14.930 --> 07:16.770]  Anyway, so that's that's what's going on here in New York.
[07:16.870 --> 07:18.350]  That's why it's a little bit of frenzy down here.
[07:19.570 --> 07:22.570]  This is our last show before I take off for for Europe.
[07:23.050 --> 07:25.130]  And Jeff, I don't think you're going to be here next week, right?
[07:25.310 --> 07:27.510]  No, I'm going to be driving cross country in a truck.
[07:27.690 --> 07:28.150]  All right.
[07:28.550 --> 07:29.130]  Yeah, sorry.
[07:29.750 --> 07:30.770]  That sounds like fun.
[07:31.210 --> 07:32.210]  Yeah, I'm looking forward to it.
[07:32.350 --> 07:32.510]  Uh huh.
[07:33.490 --> 07:34.150]  Well, good for you.
[07:34.230 --> 07:34.550]  Good for you.
[07:34.670 --> 07:37.150]  But you're going to be in Germany in two weeks, right?
[07:37.290 --> 07:37.510]  Yes.
[07:37.690 --> 07:39.730]  We got our tickets today.
[07:39.730 --> 07:40.790]  Finally got your damn tickets.
[07:40.930 --> 07:41.170]  Yes.
[07:41.350 --> 07:41.590]  Yes.
[07:41.690 --> 07:43.550]  Well, it's a long story.
[07:43.610 --> 07:44.110]  I won't bore you.
[07:44.290 --> 07:46.170]  But we have our tickets.
[07:46.410 --> 07:47.050]  We're on our way.
[07:47.170 --> 07:48.810]  I think my passport came back today.
[07:49.430 --> 07:50.850]  It got lost for a little while.
[07:51.210 --> 07:53.250]  It was delayed at the Belarusian embassy.
[07:53.470 --> 07:56.370]  And I think I have my invitation to Belarusia.
[07:56.890 --> 07:58.310]  I'm not sure exactly how to pronounce it.
[07:59.170 --> 07:59.570]  Belarus.
[07:59.930 --> 08:00.130]  Belarus.
[08:00.390 --> 08:00.750]  I'm sorry.
[08:01.090 --> 08:02.290]  I'm pronouncing it the old way.
[08:02.410 --> 08:04.230]  Because that's what it used to be referred to in the Soviet Union.
[08:05.430 --> 08:06.850]  But it's a Belarusian visa.
[08:06.990 --> 08:07.770]  That much I can tell you.
[08:08.250 --> 08:13.430]  So I'm going over to those areas and Eastern Europe after the conference in August.
[08:13.590 --> 08:26.210]  And it's not too late for those of you out there interested in being part of an international hacker scene to go to the chaos communications camp, which will be taking place near Berlin on August 7th, 8th, 9th and 10th.
[08:26.210 --> 08:27.890]  It's approaching too late, though.
[08:28.030 --> 08:28.750]  So you should really...
[08:28.750 --> 08:29.550]  It's approaching too late.
[08:29.650 --> 08:36.690]  But if you're one of those people that flies at the last minute, you know, or if you're already over there in Europe, it's possible, then it certainly isn't too late for that.
[08:37.050 --> 08:43.290]  Go to www.ccc.de slash camp and get all the information that you can possibly imagine over there.
[08:44.830 --> 08:47.250]  Okay, so who's got what?
[08:47.330 --> 08:47.970]  What do we have here?
[08:48.090 --> 08:49.390]  We've got all kinds of interesting stories.
[08:49.930 --> 08:51.010]  Okay, Mish, go ahead.
[08:51.330 --> 09:01.330]  Oh, a few weeks ago we covered the FCC's new rulings, changing media ownership laws, and just wanted to report on what's happened since then.
[09:02.010 --> 09:15.370]  Since then, there's been a new bill in Congress that has an amendment that will effectively reverse the FCC's ruling and change the 45% ownership back to the previous 35% ownership.
[09:15.650 --> 09:17.690]  You know, that doesn't really make a whole lot of difference.
[09:17.990 --> 09:26.170]  It's amazing to me that people are so upset over the 45% rule, but they weren't that upset about the 35% thing, you know, or basically getting rid of the limits to start with.
[09:26.170 --> 09:28.110]  Why don't we push it back to that, you know?
[09:28.170 --> 09:31.090]  Then I'll, you know, I think we're making progress if we do that.
[09:31.710 --> 09:34.590]  Well, regardless, it's still a step in the right direction.
[09:34.590 --> 09:42.770]  It's good to see that people in Congress sort of are beginning to have an understanding of what will happen with too much consolidation of the media.
[09:42.870 --> 09:44.950]  Well, it shows what happens when people speak out.
[09:45.250 --> 09:48.250]  And people have spoken out about this quite a bit, and people have responded.
[09:48.370 --> 09:50.470]  Now, imagine if people have spoken out the first time.
[09:50.670 --> 09:53.030]  Imagine if people continue to speak out and demand more.
[09:53.030 --> 09:55.150]  You know, you will see a result.
[09:55.370 --> 09:58.650]  And it's very important to realize the power that you have.
[09:59.010 --> 10:02.150]  So, by all means, yes, this is a good thing, but let's continue.
[10:02.150 --> 10:05.750]  It's not good enough because there's still way too much media consolidation.
[10:05.750 --> 10:10.290]  There's still way too much ownership by the same people of the same, you know, in the same spectrum.
[10:10.790 --> 10:13.390]  And it's, you know, it's a bad thing for all of us.
[10:13.710 --> 10:17.630]  You know, you just wind up with the same voices all the time on the radio and on television.
[10:18.790 --> 10:19.430]  All right.
[10:19.870 --> 10:21.130]  Mike, you have an interesting story.
[10:21.430 --> 10:22.850]  Let's start with this.
[10:23.410 --> 10:30.630]  This is from John Gilmore, who's one of the founders of the EFF and has done a number of other interesting things.
[10:31.590 --> 10:37.930]  He wanted to go to London today, which was Friday, 18th of July.
[10:38.230 --> 10:39.750]  So, not today's today.
[10:39.930 --> 10:40.110]  Yeah.
[10:40.830 --> 10:47.250]  So, he was flying from San Francisco on British Airways to London and showed the passports, got on the plane.
[10:47.250 --> 10:52.190]  And he was wearing a little button, apparently, labeled suspected terrorist.
[10:54.670 --> 11:01.250]  So, the flight attendant went up to him and said, you know, take off the button or we won't fly you.
[11:01.450 --> 11:02.970]  They called it a badge.
[11:03.670 --> 11:12.190]  The captain, Captain Peter Hughes, claimed that, quote, I would endanger the aircraft and commit a federal crime if he did not take off the button.
[11:13.230 --> 11:19.490]  So, John Gilmore, being John Gilmore, said it's a political statement, wouldn't take off the button.
[11:19.670 --> 11:23.690]  So, what they did is they turned the airplane around.
[11:23.970 --> 11:25.050]  They hadn't taken off yet.
[11:25.190 --> 11:28.130]  They were still on the ground but not at the gate.
[11:28.230 --> 11:31.410]  So, they went back to the gate, forced him off the plane.
[11:32.950 --> 11:37.330]  And so, then they had a chat with Carol Spear, who works for British Airways.
[11:39.790 --> 11:45.230]  And so, they said, you know, why can't they fly with the button?
[11:46.030 --> 11:49.550]  The first excuse was that the captain refused to fly them.
[11:49.890 --> 11:53.610]  So, John Gilmore asked if he could fly on a later flight with a different captain.
[11:53.730 --> 11:55.630]  Maybe have a chat with the captain in advance.
[11:57.150 --> 11:59.910]  How did the captain see the button when he was taxiing the airplane?
[12:00.090 --> 12:01.850]  The flight attendant reported the button.
[12:01.890 --> 12:03.410]  The flight attendant saw it and reported it to the captain.
[12:03.410 --> 12:03.930]  Okay, I got it.
[12:04.090 --> 12:04.130]  Okay.
[12:04.530 --> 12:04.750]  Yeah.
[12:06.470 --> 12:10.890]  So, then British Airways just said, no, the captain's too busy, doesn't want to talk with you.
[12:10.990 --> 12:11.470]  No, no, no.
[12:12.450 --> 12:16.950]  So, John Gilmore asked, could he wear a button saying, hooray for Tony Blair?
[12:18.510 --> 12:19.550]  That's apparently allowed.
[12:19.810 --> 12:21.990]  You can wear that button on British Airways.
[12:22.310 --> 12:22.510]  Alright.
[12:24.250 --> 12:25.330]  Terrorism is evil.
[12:25.650 --> 12:26.350]  Not allowed.
[12:28.250 --> 12:32.630]  And opposed terrorism, they didn't, you know, by that point, they just had enough.
[12:32.630 --> 12:33.690]  Who said terrorism is evil?
[12:34.550 --> 12:37.790]  If he had a button with terrorism, labeled terrorism is evil.
[12:37.970 --> 12:38.070]  Yeah.
[12:38.210 --> 12:39.410]  Not allowed on British Airways.
[12:39.570 --> 12:40.130]  Is that what they said?
[12:40.210 --> 12:40.830]  That's what it says.
[12:40.970 --> 12:41.090]  Okay.
[12:42.190 --> 12:43.210]  Or probably not.
[12:43.670 --> 12:44.030]  Okay.
[12:44.090 --> 12:45.610]  Probably not allowed on British Airways.
[12:45.630 --> 12:47.130]  So, okay, what's the end result of all this?
[12:47.270 --> 12:48.590]  The end result is he didn't go to London.
[12:48.890 --> 12:49.110]  Okay.
[12:49.110 --> 12:49.130]  Okay.
[12:49.730 --> 12:57.310]  And so, the argument labeled suspected terrorist is not because he's actually a terrorist, as far as I know, anyway.
[12:57.530 --> 13:04.490]  It's because he's pointing out that everyone is, when they try and fly, and in other circumstances, is treated like a terrorist.
[13:05.470 --> 13:07.170]  And, well, that's what happened.
[13:07.830 --> 13:14.010]  And I think he's brought suit against John Ashcroft, British Airways, who else?
[13:14.810 --> 13:19.790]  Previously, he had filed a lawsuit against Ashcroft, Southwest, and United.
[13:20.690 --> 13:21.630]  For the ID.
[13:21.850 --> 13:24.010]  For the domestic ID requirement.
[13:24.010 --> 13:28.450]  He claims, he argues that you shouldn't be required to show ID when traveling domestically.
[13:29.590 --> 13:31.710]  Since him, he refuses to do so.
[13:32.090 --> 13:34.810]  Since he was flying to London, he was willing to show the passport.
[13:35.230 --> 13:37.510]  So, he didn't have...
[13:37.510 --> 13:39.290]  So, he was willing to get on this flight.
[13:40.650 --> 13:44.410]  But that lawsuit is in federal court in San Francisco.
[13:44.810 --> 13:48.630]  And last I heard, the judge had declined to immediately dismiss it.
[13:48.730 --> 13:50.090]  But that was a while ago.
[13:50.830 --> 13:54.470]  Well, you know, I have a lot of respect for John Gilmore.
[13:54.470 --> 14:02.090]  And I'm certainly personally indebted to him immensely for his help in the DECSS case with Electronic Frontier Foundation.
[14:03.090 --> 14:05.710]  This particular case, though, I just don't see it.
[14:05.950 --> 14:13.210]  You know, I understand why people might get a little antsy with somebody wearing a button that says, you know, Suspected terrorist?
[14:13.330 --> 14:13.890]  Is that what it was?
[14:14.170 --> 14:14.350]  Yeah.
[14:14.530 --> 14:14.730]  Okay.
[14:14.930 --> 14:18.630]  I mean, you know, it's just like you don't make jokes about bombs when you're in airports.
[14:19.090 --> 14:21.330]  Yeah, you know, you should be able to talk about whatever you want to talk about.
[14:21.330 --> 14:25.470]  But there's certain situations where people obviously are going to be kind of, you know, wary.
[14:27.190 --> 14:36.170]  And, yeah, I just think there's a lot better examples of people being, having their right to free speech being, you know, taken away from them.
[14:36.430 --> 14:41.890]  Show me a case where someone's wearing, say, a Palestinian flag on their shirt and they get thrown off an airplane for that.
[14:41.890 --> 14:47.530]  Or just, you know, something saying Bush sucks or, you know, anything involving real political speech.
[14:47.670 --> 14:58.090]  But to even say the word terrorist, you know, on a button, I mean, if I was a passenger, I think I would be a little bit, you know, uncomfortable with that.
[14:58.810 --> 14:59.850]  And I could see why.
[14:59.930 --> 15:02.450]  I mean, he should have just taken it off and reported the story.
[15:02.570 --> 15:03.470]  It would have been just as interesting.
[15:03.470 --> 15:05.750]  But to subject everybody to that, I don't know.
[15:05.750 --> 15:08.510]  I just, I don't see what was gained out of it.
[15:08.570 --> 15:19.670]  Well, there was a case on United Airlines where the captain removed a man of Middle Eastern descent who had done nothing wrong merely because, quote, he made me uncomfortable.
[15:19.930 --> 15:22.070]  That is a much better case.
[15:22.250 --> 15:25.010]  I don't think that got nearly the same publicity as this is getting.
[15:25.130 --> 15:26.090]  I don't understand why.
[15:26.370 --> 15:30.590]  You know, we had a case where somebody was reading 2600 on an airplane a couple of years ago.
[15:30.750 --> 15:31.950]  Was it maybe about a year ago?
[15:31.950 --> 15:38.870]  So it was, you know, an article on passport hacking, you know, not hacking a passport, but, you know, the computer passport thing.
[15:39.950 --> 15:42.170]  And, you know, they were questioned.
[15:42.170 --> 15:43.250]  This is the Microsoft product.
[15:43.250 --> 15:44.270]  Yeah, the Microsoft product.
[15:44.470 --> 15:46.170]  And this, you know, they were questioned.
[15:46.490 --> 15:55.570]  And I think that's a much bigger story because, you know, somebody was actually taken off a plane for reading an article in a magazine that somebody didn't understand.
[15:55.570 --> 15:58.170]  It had nothing to do with terrorism or passports or anything like that.
[15:58.170 --> 16:04.030]  But, you know, that to me is a lot more of a violation of someone's free speech.
[16:04.210 --> 16:13.530]  And this whole thing about showing ID for domestic travel, you know, if you rent a car, you have to show ID to get a license or, you know, you have to show your license in order to be able to drive the car.
[16:13.730 --> 16:17.430]  If, you know, you check into a hotel, you have to show ID in case you vandalize the room.
[16:17.810 --> 16:22.510]  I can sort of understand, you know, why they want to know who's flying and who's going where.
[16:22.670 --> 16:24.750]  It's sort of important to, you know...
[16:24.750 --> 16:24.890]  Why?
[16:25.630 --> 16:28.450]  Well, I mean, you know, there's all kinds of situations.
[16:28.470 --> 16:30.470]  Let's say that, you know, the plane crashes, for instance.
[16:30.650 --> 16:35.790]  Wouldn't it be nice to get a call saying, oh, by the way, so-and-so was on the plane rather than not knowing where they are?
[16:36.110 --> 16:40.570]  You know, or if you do something bad, you know, it's good to know who you are.
[16:40.930 --> 16:41.370]  I don't know.
[16:41.770 --> 16:43.570]  Tell me what the disadvantage is.
[16:43.630 --> 16:44.410]  That's what I'd like to know.
[16:44.710 --> 16:46.870]  I mean, yeah, you have the right to travel anonymously.
[16:47.070 --> 16:50.810]  The disadvantage is the government computer that has a listing of everywhere people fly.
[16:50.830 --> 16:52.810]  No, I think it should be airline policy.
[16:52.890 --> 16:54.210]  I'm not saying the government should be...
[16:54.210 --> 16:55.490]  It is a government policy.
[16:55.690 --> 17:04.990]  Okay, but the airline... if it was airline policy, if the airline said, we want to know who you are if you're going to fly our airplanes, is that different than government policy?
[17:04.990 --> 17:10.030]  The government has a regulation, and it came up in John Gilmore's lawsuit.
[17:10.690 --> 17:14.590]  The judge asked the government attorney, you know, what is this regulation?
[17:15.970 --> 17:20.430]  The judge likes to know the regulation that she's ruling, you know, allowable or not.
[17:20.550 --> 17:20.750]  Uh-huh.
[17:20.890 --> 17:24.750]  And the attorney would not tell the judge what the regulation is.
[17:25.210 --> 17:30.630]  Okay, well, I mean, you know, the regulation should obviously be cited, but I think it should be company policy.
[17:30.630 --> 17:35.890]  Not, you know, if there's an airline out there that wants to let people fly anonymously, you know, fine, let them do that.
[17:36.110 --> 17:38.030]  I don't think anyone's going to be crazy enough to do that.
[17:38.190 --> 17:41.690]  But yes, it's, you know, I don't think it should necessarily be a government thing.
[17:42.030 --> 17:45.730]  But I just can't believe anybody would expect to fly an airplane domestically and not show ID.
[17:47.050 --> 17:48.590]  Well, it's the final...
[17:49.330 --> 17:51.130]  It's the final sign of the apocalypse.
[17:51.370 --> 17:53.690]  I am far more liberal than you are on this issue.
[17:54.490 --> 17:57.770]  Essentially, what he's wearing is something akin to...
[17:57.770 --> 18:01.610]  Suppose he wore a T-shirt that said, we are all suspected terrorists.
[18:01.890 --> 18:02.070]  Uh-huh.
[18:02.370 --> 18:05.410]  He's clearly making a political statement at that point, right?
[18:05.590 --> 18:07.110]  And should he not be allowed to do it?
[18:07.210 --> 18:07.610]  It's not.
[18:07.650 --> 18:10.150]  It's not the statement so much as a particular word.
[18:10.290 --> 18:11.030]  Like, you know, if I...
[18:11.030 --> 18:12.910]  He's creating fear, you're saying, in other words?
[18:12.910 --> 18:18.990]  Or if I wore a button that said, bomb on me, you know, or, you know, I am a bomb, or I, you know, or...
[18:18.990 --> 18:21.370]  Yeah, what kind of catchy phrase has the word bomb?
[18:21.370 --> 18:21.650]  In other words, you're scaring people?
[18:21.790 --> 18:22.670]  Yeah, you're scaring people.
[18:22.730 --> 18:25.350]  You're scaring people by using certain key phrases, you know?
[18:25.350 --> 18:26.610]  Oh, I can't believe you're saying this.
[18:26.610 --> 18:29.170]  And Al-Qaeda, like, you know, cap or something like that.
[18:29.370 --> 18:33.090]  You could see why people would be, you know, very uneasy with that.
[18:33.170 --> 18:36.650]  And so it's common courtesy to, like, not make people uneasy.
[18:37.910 --> 18:41.210]  And yet, last week I saw a guy walking around in a T-shirt.
[18:41.210 --> 18:43.970]  I forget what it said, but he showed up here, actually.
[18:44.190 --> 18:46.390]  No, I was wearing a shirt saying Christianity is stupid.
[18:46.470 --> 18:49.310]  If I got thrown off a plane for wearing that, yes, that would be a story.
[18:49.310 --> 18:50.990]  But I'm just saying, you know, as far as making people...
[18:50.990 --> 18:52.630]  That would be a story, but to say you're a terrorist...
[18:52.630 --> 18:53.770]  It's making people uncomfortable.
[18:54.030 --> 18:58.610]  To say you're a terrorist is a whole lot different than saying that you don't believe in a particular religion.
[18:58.650 --> 18:59.050]  He didn't say he was a terrorist.
[18:59.230 --> 19:00.710]  He said he was a suspected terrorist.
[19:00.890 --> 19:02.130]  And I understand his point.
[19:02.250 --> 19:04.010]  We're all suspected terrorists.
[19:04.190 --> 19:07.390]  We're treated like terrorists when we try to board a plane.
[19:07.390 --> 19:14.190]  But what does that say to somebody who has not been privileged to be part of this whole discussion as to, you know, everybody being treated as a suspected terrorist?
[19:14.430 --> 19:17.050]  Someone from, you know, some part of the country that does not, you know...
[19:17.050 --> 19:18.850]  It says, here's an opportunity to be educated.
[19:19.110 --> 19:19.810]  Yeah, you know what?
[19:20.170 --> 19:21.630]  It's free speech.
[19:22.190 --> 19:24.030]  It's free speech, but it's immature.
[19:24.230 --> 19:24.890]  It really is.
[19:25.030 --> 19:25.630]  I just...
[19:25.630 --> 19:35.170]  I cannot believe that people would think that they could just, you know, walk around and, you know, say unsuspected terrorist and not expect someone to get a little bit upset by that.
[19:35.170 --> 19:36.850]  Of course they're going to get upset by that.
[19:37.050 --> 19:39.330]  What's wrong with being upset?
[19:40.010 --> 19:41.630]  Like he said, you're going to get educated.
[19:41.770 --> 19:42.390]  You're going to learn.
[19:43.290 --> 19:48.470]  When we're taxiing down a runway, that's not really the point where I feel like having a debate about this issue.
[19:48.630 --> 19:49.230]  It really isn't.
[19:49.350 --> 19:50.050]  I mean, come on.
[19:50.950 --> 19:52.450]  The time to have debates...
[19:52.450 --> 19:54.630]  Okay, this is a good time to have a debate about the subject.
[19:54.790 --> 19:57.570]  But you respect the people that you're on the airplane with.
[19:57.650 --> 19:58.830]  You respect the people flying the airplane.
[19:58.970 --> 19:59.830]  It makes them uncomfortable.
[20:00.570 --> 20:04.150]  You might not agree with it, but you go along with it because they're the ones doing the work.
[20:04.150 --> 20:08.850]  Well, there's no evidence that I'm aware of that the passengers on the plane were made uncomfortable.
[20:09.330 --> 20:13.510]  In fact, he said his statement was that the passengers he spoke to didn't have a problem with his button.
[20:13.510 --> 20:14.170]  Okay, but that's his statement.
[20:14.370 --> 20:15.230]  What did the passengers said?
[20:15.330 --> 20:15.930]  Have they been quoted?
[20:16.370 --> 20:16.710]  You know?
[20:17.650 --> 20:24.270]  Because I can tell you right now, even if I was with somebody I knew that had a button like that, it would make me uncomfortable because I know it would be making other people uncomfortable.
[20:24.970 --> 20:26.090]  You know, that kind of thing.
[20:26.190 --> 20:27.870]  Just, I don't think it's funny.
[20:28.690 --> 20:31.870]  You know, you make jokes about bombs when you're going through the flight.
[20:31.970 --> 20:32.550]  Like, yeah, go ahead.
[20:32.670 --> 20:33.090]  Try that.
[20:33.090 --> 20:34.770]  You guys who believe this, try that.
[20:35.090 --> 20:38.050]  And then try convincing the people, you know, I have the right to make jokes.
[20:38.330 --> 20:39.030]  What's wrong with you?
[20:39.370 --> 20:40.390]  You know, see how far you get.
[20:41.430 --> 20:41.790]  That's...
[20:41.790 --> 20:44.250]  No, I think that's apples and oranges, Emmanuel.
[20:44.430 --> 20:46.130]  It's one thing to make a joke about a bomb.
[20:46.210 --> 20:48.170]  It's another thing to say, this is how we're being treated.
[20:48.490 --> 20:49.730]  But that's not what he said.
[20:49.730 --> 20:51.850]  It's a two-word thing on a button.
[20:52.050 --> 20:52.870]  It was shorthand.
[20:53.010 --> 20:55.310]  If he was reading an article about something like that, fine.
[20:55.590 --> 20:56.930]  That's going a bit more in detail.
[20:57.070 --> 21:00.530]  But two words, and the words were designed to get attention.
[21:00.530 --> 21:01.630]  So you wouldn't have...
[21:01.630 --> 21:02.050]  And he got the attention.
[21:02.290 --> 21:06.530]  You wouldn't have a problem with a t-shirt that said, we are all suspected terrorists.
[21:07.750 --> 21:11.750]  It's a bit more descriptive, but I could also see people being very, you know...
[21:11.750 --> 21:12.390]  Upset with that?
[21:12.570 --> 21:12.750]  Upset with it.
[21:12.850 --> 21:14.370]  But no, I don't think you have the same problem.
[21:14.410 --> 21:14.850]  Okay, so it's just the upset thing.
[21:14.950 --> 21:15.990]  What if he was Egyptian?
[21:16.030 --> 21:17.230]  What if he was black?
[21:17.230 --> 21:18.710]  Some people get upset with black people.
[21:18.850 --> 21:19.550]  What if he was white?
[21:19.550 --> 21:20.110]  Which he is.
[21:20.190 --> 21:21.690]  It's a completely different thing.
[21:21.690 --> 21:23.810]  That is a real issue.
[21:23.990 --> 21:24.970]  We have...
[21:24.970 --> 21:25.490]  If someone...
[21:25.490 --> 21:25.870]  If someone...
[21:25.870 --> 21:26.970]  It's the same issue.
[21:27.010 --> 21:27.670]  No, it is not.
[21:27.790 --> 21:28.670]  It is completely not.
[21:28.750 --> 21:36.670]  If you start throwing people off airplanes because of their race, you know, that is completely different than throwing somebody off for declaring that there is a suspected terrorist.
[21:37.170 --> 21:37.530]  Obviously...
[21:37.530 --> 21:41.670]  But in this case, or not in this case, but in similar cases, one is equivalent to the other.
[21:43.350 --> 21:47.170]  We have an article, by the way, about people reading articles and getting questioned for that.
[21:47.310 --> 21:50.030]  Yeah, you know, this is something I consider to be a real issue.
[21:50.030 --> 21:50.850]  Let's move along, then.
[21:50.850 --> 21:52.070]  I don't consider this to be a real issue.
[21:52.190 --> 21:58.510]  I mean, it's so obvious to me that if you wear something and saying that you're a suspected terrorist, people are going to think, hey, maybe you're a suspected terrorist.
[21:58.630 --> 22:04.330]  I mean, what in God's name would you expect people to think who aren't privy to all of the facts that went into making the button?
[22:04.830 --> 22:08.270]  I mean, you know, it's got nothing to do with whether or not you agree.
[22:08.470 --> 22:11.890]  Well, it's got nothing to do with whether you agree with what's, you know, the sentiments behind it.
[22:12.030 --> 22:12.890]  But come on.
[22:13.030 --> 22:14.090]  I mean, you know, it's just...
[22:14.090 --> 22:15.850]  I think we've exhausted the issue.
[22:15.850 --> 22:23.270]  What would you expect people to think when, you know, you walk around, you know, with something like that, on an airplane, for God's sake?
[22:27.840 --> 22:29.420]  Are you really surprised, people?
[22:29.580 --> 22:32.580]  I mean, the thing... Okay, the thing that... You are surprising me.
[22:32.660 --> 22:33.600]  You think I'm surprising you?
[22:33.600 --> 22:34.500]  Yes, yes, yes.
[22:34.960 --> 22:36.320]  This is not what I expected.
[22:36.380 --> 22:38.140]  Show of hands, is he surprising you?
[22:38.200 --> 22:38.460]  All right.
[22:38.540 --> 22:41.560]  The people in the radio can't see the hands.
[22:42.120 --> 22:43.000]  Almost unanimous.
[22:43.000 --> 22:50.040]  You see, I see freedom of speech as, you know, it's a very important thing to, you know, to be able to say what you want to say.
[22:50.140 --> 22:54.860]  But when you start, you know, you don't yell fire in a crowded theater unless it's on fire, of course.
[22:54.860 --> 22:55.800]  That's a safety issue.
[22:56.900 --> 23:00.560]  You know, when you yell terrorist, can you shout, I am a suspected terrorist?
[23:00.580 --> 23:03.780]  No one's yelling... No, I just want to know where you draw the line.
[23:04.700 --> 23:05.880]  I think we've heard the arguments.
[23:05.880 --> 23:07.360]  No, I want to know where you draw the line.
[23:07.480 --> 23:10.040]  Can you stand up in the airplane and say, by the way, I'm a suspected terrorist?
[23:10.040 --> 23:13.440]  And anybody who gets upset by that, they're wrong.
[23:13.440 --> 23:16.020]  I get upset with anyone standing up in a plane and yelling.
[23:16.200 --> 23:17.320]  Well, people do it all the time.
[23:17.420 --> 23:18.760]  Well, not correctly.
[23:18.760 --> 23:19.800]  What planes are you riding?
[23:20.120 --> 23:21.400]  Oh, they yell at their kids.
[23:21.540 --> 23:22.520]  They're yelling at the stewardess.
[23:22.680 --> 23:25.100]  You know, it's barbaric conditions.
[23:25.900 --> 23:26.640]  Yes, Redhack.
[23:27.040 --> 23:30.040]  Well, I mean, I happen to agree with those.
[23:30.180 --> 23:39.620]  You are surprising me because it's the same, you know, you're saying, well, if someone looks this way, if they're Arabic and people get upset about it, they shouldn't be thrown off the plane.
[23:39.620 --> 23:40.900]  But that's who they are.
[23:41.020 --> 23:41.980]  That's their face.
[23:42.140 --> 23:43.160]  Well, maybe that's who he is.
[23:43.220 --> 23:46.460]  He feels that that's his opinion, that he is a suspected terrorist.
[23:46.560 --> 23:47.280]  So that's who he is.
[23:47.340 --> 23:48.700]  He is a suspected terrorist.
[23:48.920 --> 23:49.260]  Exactly.
[23:49.480 --> 23:50.420]  As are we all.
[23:51.600 --> 23:55.700]  The point I'm trying to make is that you have to know all that.
[23:55.860 --> 24:00.320]  Otherwise, you know, it's a word that sets people off.
[24:00.540 --> 24:03.340]  Obviously, you should have the right to say whatever you want to say.
[24:03.340 --> 24:09.600]  But you can't be surprised when you say certain key phrases and people react to it.
[24:09.660 --> 24:17.160]  What was that music event a few years back where Bob Dylan was on stage and somebody got up and had written on their chest, soy bomb.
[24:17.560 --> 24:19.500]  Did anybody actually think he was going to explode?
[24:19.780 --> 24:20.800]  I'd never heard of that.
[24:21.120 --> 24:21.600]  Yeah.
[24:21.860 --> 24:24.080]  Somebody will identify this.
[24:24.200 --> 24:24.980]  I'm sure some listener.
[24:26.220 --> 24:28.900]  I mean, really, it's not the same thing.
[24:29.080 --> 24:32.360]  The thing that surprises me, though, is that they said everything would be okay if you just take off the button.
[24:32.660 --> 24:34.080]  That, I think, is the story right there.
[24:34.180 --> 24:34.560]  Yeah, that is...
[24:34.560 --> 24:35.000]  That is...
[24:35.000 --> 24:35.780]  Yes, I agree with you on that.
[24:35.780 --> 24:37.000]  That I find to be really funny.
[24:37.040 --> 24:39.140]  And that, I think, is what people should be focusing on.
[24:39.180 --> 24:41.400]  The fact that, you know, it's that easy to fix.
[24:41.400 --> 24:47.380]  That's another point we haven't glossed on, which is, if the guy is wearing a button, is he a terrorist?
[24:48.020 --> 24:49.520]  I mean, do terrorists wear buttons?
[24:49.560 --> 24:51.960]  Or are they trying to fake us out by identifying themselves?
[24:51.960 --> 24:56.960]  Well, that should also prove to you that it wasn't... he wasn't suspected of being a terrorist because he had the thing.
[24:57.100 --> 24:58.920]  He was making people uneasy by taking the thing off.
[24:59.220 --> 25:01.400]  You know, he would make people...
[25:01.400 --> 25:02.820]  You know, okay, let me give you an example.
[25:03.280 --> 25:08.660]  I was on a plane once where we had a radio, okay?
[25:09.860 --> 25:13.560]  And apparently radios can interfere with airplanes when they're flying.
[25:14.100 --> 25:16.600]  And the stewardess wanted us to take the antenna off the radio.
[25:16.700 --> 25:19.460]  The radio was off, you know, but she was uneasy.
[25:19.460 --> 25:23.040]  She thought that, you know, it could cause interference.
[25:23.280 --> 25:25.080]  She didn't know the first thing about what she was talking about.
[25:25.380 --> 25:28.140]  Now, I could have started a big commotion about how this thing's off.
[25:28.140 --> 25:30.120]  I have every right to keep the antenna on my radio.
[25:30.400 --> 25:33.640]  But I took the damn antenna off because it wasn't worth arguing about.
[25:33.880 --> 25:35.020]  What would I have gained?
[25:35.520 --> 25:42.160]  I did read a post from someone in another article that basically said their best defense would have been, please remove the button.
[25:42.160 --> 25:44.520]  It has a long metal spike on it.
[25:45.020 --> 25:47.340]  You know, we're taking nail clippers away.
[25:48.520 --> 25:49.240]  Let's make...
[25:49.240 --> 25:50.020]  But that wasn't the reason.
[25:50.220 --> 25:50.900]  I realize that.
[25:51.040 --> 25:52.500]  I've worn buttons on airplanes.
[25:52.980 --> 25:54.560]  And, you know, it happens.
[25:56.020 --> 25:56.460]  All right.
[25:56.540 --> 25:59.060]  Well, you know, okay, you guys who believe that, go put those buttons on.
[25:59.450 --> 26:02.320]  Go put those buttons on and fight for your right of free speech if you really believe that.
[26:02.400 --> 26:05.560]  I mean, I fight for my right of free speech in my way and, you know...
[26:05.560 --> 26:08.600]  But I put things on that I really believe in, you know?
[26:08.940 --> 26:10.660]  And I think that's the important thing.
[26:10.740 --> 26:12.460]  Not just to cause a commotion and make a scene.
[26:12.580 --> 26:14.000]  Do you leave your suspected terrorist?
[26:14.660 --> 26:15.400]  Yes, I do.
[26:15.580 --> 26:16.660]  Okay, so you believe in that.
[26:16.880 --> 26:17.660]  Yeah, you know...
[26:17.660 --> 26:18.360]  But you won't wear the button.
[26:20.760 --> 26:22.820]  People who want to try this at home...
[26:22.820 --> 26:28.820]  Because what's in my mind, what I say, you know, and what I'm like flashing in front of people is, you know...
[26:28.820 --> 26:36.320]  People who want to try this at home, the button can be purchased from E-M-I-N-I-S-M dot org.
[26:36.480 --> 26:37.620]  What in God's name does that mean?
[26:37.700 --> 26:39.360]  It's a woman's website.
[26:39.660 --> 26:40.040]  But it's not up.
[26:40.100 --> 26:40.900]  They took it down.
[26:40.900 --> 26:44.300]  This story should be getting ten times the attention of this silly one.
[26:44.420 --> 26:45.060]  It really should be.
[26:45.620 --> 26:46.180]  Listen to this.
[26:46.260 --> 26:47.180]  The FBI is here.
[26:47.340 --> 26:48.380]  Mom tells me over the phone.
[26:48.480 --> 26:53.300]  Immediately I can see my mom with her back to a couple of Matrix-like figures in black suits and opaque sunglasses.
[26:53.420 --> 26:56.660]  Her hand covering the mouthpiece like Grace Kelly in Dial M for murder.
[26:56.860 --> 26:59.880]  This must be a joke, but it's not because mom isn't that funny.
[27:00.880 --> 27:03.680]  FBI agents came to this guy's house.
[27:03.720 --> 27:07.680]  This is from his article, which came out of creativeloafing.com.
[27:07.800 --> 27:10.000]  I work in a small independent bookstore.
[27:10.000 --> 27:11.500]  Sure, says this guy.
[27:11.640 --> 27:14.600]  Since it's a slow Tuesday afternoon, I figure, sure.
[27:14.700 --> 27:16.560]  Someone I know must have gotten some government work.
[27:16.800 --> 27:20.440]  Had my consultant friend spoken recently of getting rolled onto some government job.
[27:20.560 --> 27:22.380]  Background check, I think, interviewing acquaintances.
[27:22.600 --> 27:23.300]  No big deal.
[27:25.580 --> 27:30.980]  Anyway, then, I guess I should have gotten to the interesting parts here.
[27:30.980 --> 27:31.280]  Ah, yes.
[27:31.580 --> 27:32.760]  Are you Mark Schultz?
[27:32.900 --> 27:33.900]  Asked the tall one.
[27:34.100 --> 27:35.280]  He shows me his badge.
[27:35.380 --> 27:37.600]  Introduces himself as Special Agent Clay Trippie.
[27:38.040 --> 27:41.600]  After assuring me that I'm not in trouble, he asks if there is some place we can sit down and talk.
[27:41.820 --> 27:44.860]  We head back to Reference, where a table and chair is set up.
[27:44.940 --> 27:45.540]  We sit down.
[27:45.680 --> 27:47.240]  I'm again informed that I am not in trouble.
[27:47.800 --> 27:51.160]  Then, Agent Trippie says, Do you drive a black Nissan Altima?
[27:51.360 --> 27:53.380]  And I realize this meeting is not about a friend.
[27:53.680 --> 27:59.760]  Despite their reassurances, and despite the fact that I haven't committed any federal offenses that I know of, I'm starting to feel a bit like I'm in trouble.
[28:00.020 --> 28:04.160]  They ask me if I was driving my car on Saturday, and I say reasonably sure that I was.
[28:04.360 --> 28:07.000]  They ask me where I went, and I struggle for a moment to remember Saturday.
[28:07.000 --> 28:12.020]  I make a lame joke about how the days run together when you're underemployed, and they smile politely.
[28:12.840 --> 28:14.180]  Was I at work on Saturday?
[28:14.600 --> 28:15.400]  I think so.
[28:15.520 --> 28:18.440]  Were you at the Caribou Coffee Place on Powers Ferry?
[28:18.560 --> 28:19.540]  Asked Agent Trippie.
[28:19.680 --> 28:21.180]  That's where I get my coffee before work.
[28:21.240 --> 28:22.360]  And so I tell him, yes, probably.
[28:22.480 --> 28:26.720]  Just before remembering, Saturday was Harry Potter Day, opening early, in at 8.30.
[28:26.720 --> 28:31.860]  So I would have been at Caribou Coffee that Saturday, getting my small coffee.
[28:33.380 --> 28:35.220]  And that information seems to please the agents.
[28:36.120 --> 28:37.300]  Did you notice anything unusual?
[28:37.460 --> 28:38.920]  Anyone worth commenting on?
[28:39.120 --> 28:39.740]  Okay, I think.
[28:39.760 --> 28:40.940]  It's the unusual guy they want.
[28:41.020 --> 28:41.360]  Not me.
[28:41.500 --> 28:45.220]  I think hard, wondering if it was Saturday I saw the guy in the really cool reclining wheelchair.
[28:45.340 --> 28:47.900]  The guy who struck me as a potential James Bondian supervillain.
[28:48.400 --> 28:49.480]  But no, that was Monday.
[28:49.760 --> 28:52.740]  Then they ask if I carried anything into the shop, and we're back to me.
[28:52.980 --> 28:54.440]  My mind races, I think.
[28:54.440 --> 28:54.900]  A bomb?
[28:55.040 --> 28:55.520]  A knife?
[28:55.640 --> 28:57.160]  A balloon filled with narcotics?
[28:57.300 --> 28:59.060]  But no, I didn't own any of those things.
[29:00.000 --> 29:00.920]  Sunglasses, I say.
[29:01.100 --> 29:01.920]  Maybe my cell phone.
[29:02.380 --> 29:03.440]  Not the right answer.
[29:04.040 --> 29:06.040]  I'm nervous now, wondering how I must look.
[29:06.160 --> 29:08.520]  Average, mid-twenties, unassuming retail employee.
[29:08.740 --> 29:10.680]  What could I have possibly been carrying?
[29:11.560 --> 29:12.880]  Trippie's partner speaks up.
[29:12.960 --> 29:13.900]  Any reading material?
[29:14.120 --> 29:14.540]  Papers?
[29:15.040 --> 29:16.160]  I don't think so.
[29:16.540 --> 29:17.940]  Then Trippie decides to level with me.
[29:18.000 --> 29:18.820]  I'll tell you what, Mark.
[29:19.400 --> 29:24.060]  Someone in the shop that day saw you reading something, and thought it looked suspicious enough to call us about.
[29:24.400 --> 29:26.780]  So that's why we're here, just checking it out.
[29:27.160 --> 29:28.280]  Like I said, there's no problem.
[29:28.380 --> 29:29.680]  We'd just like to get to the bottom of this.
[29:29.980 --> 29:32.600]  Now, if we can't, then you may have a problem.
[29:32.740 --> 29:34.340]  And you don't want that.
[29:35.200 --> 29:36.320]  You don't want that?
[29:36.520 --> 29:38.220]  Have I just been threatened by the FBI?
[29:39.020 --> 29:42.120]  Confusion and a light dusting of panic conspire to keep me speechless.
[29:42.360 --> 29:43.660]  Was I reading something that morning?
[29:43.940 --> 29:45.860]  Something that would constitute a problem?
[29:52.120 --> 29:52.920]  I was reading.
[29:53.120 --> 29:55.100]  It was an article my dad had printed off the web.
[29:55.220 --> 30:03.020]  I remember carrying it into Caribou with me, reading it in line, and then, while stirring cream into my coffee, I remember bringing it with me to the store, finishing it before we opened.
[30:03.180 --> 30:10.560]  I can't remember what the article was about, but I'm sure it was some kind of left-wing editorial, the kind that never fails to incite me to anger and despair over the state of the country.
[30:11.300 --> 30:16.440]  I tell them all this, but they want specifics, the title of the article, the author, some kind of synopsis, but I can't help them.
[30:16.600 --> 30:17.780]  I read so much of this stuff.
[30:18.180 --> 30:19.540]  Do you still have the article?
[30:20.140 --> 30:23.940]  Well, probably not, but I suggest we check behind the computer, or behind the counter, rather.
[30:24.440 --> 30:28.020]  When that doesn't pan out, I have the bright idea to call my dad at work, see if he can remember.
[30:28.100 --> 30:32.180]  Of course, he can't put together a coherent sentence after I tell him the FBI is at the store questioning me.
[30:34.280 --> 30:43.060]  Anyway, they followed me out into the parking lot when I suggested it might be in my car, and then Trippie asked me if there's anything in the car he should know about, weapons, drugs.
[30:43.160 --> 30:46.480]  It's not a problem if you do, but if you don't tell me and then I find something, then it's going to be a problem.
[30:47.080 --> 30:47.880]  That's how they talk.
[30:48.380 --> 30:56.520]  I assure him there's nothing in my car coming very close to quoting Rudy Ray Moore in Dolomite, there's nothing in my trunk, man.
[30:57.000 --> 31:00.060]  The excitement of the questioning, the interrogation has made me just a little bit giddy.
[31:00.180 --> 31:02.100]  I almost laugh out loud when they ask me to pop my trunk.
[31:02.500 --> 31:03.700]  There's nothing in my car, of course.
[31:03.760 --> 31:09.200]  I keep looking anyway while telling them it was probably some kind of what did they know and when did they know it article about the buildup to Gulf War II.
[31:09.980 --> 31:11.300]  Trippie nods, unsatisfied.
[31:11.300 --> 31:15.740]  I turn up some papers from the University of Georgia where I'm about to begin as a grad student.
[31:15.740 --> 31:17.300]  And he asks me what I'm going to study.
[31:17.560 --> 31:18.280]  Journalism, I say.
[31:18.600 --> 31:26.240]  As I duck back into the car, I hear Agent Trippie informing his partner he's going to UGA for journalism in a way that makes me wonder whether that counts against me.
[31:27.020 --> 31:30.660]  Back in the store, Trippie gives me his card and tells me to call him if I remember anything.
[31:31.040 --> 31:34.720]  After he's gone, I call my dad back to see if he has calmed down, maybe come up with a name.
[31:34.920 --> 31:43.780]  We retrace some steps together, figure out that the article was Hal Crowther's Weapons of Mass Stupidity from the Weekly Planet, a free independent out of Tampa.
[31:43.960 --> 31:56.720]  It comes back to me then, this scathing screed focusing on the way corporate interests have poisoned the country's media, focusing mostly on Fox News and Rupert Murdoch, really infuriating, deadly accurate stuff about American journalism post 9-11.
[31:56.880 --> 32:03.120]  So I call the number on the card, leave a message with a name, author, and origin of the column, and ask him to call me if he has any more questions.
[32:03.460 --> 32:17.720]  To tell the truth, I'm kind of anxious to hear back from the FBI, if only for the chance to ask why anyone would find media criticism suspicious, or if maybe the sight of a dark-bearded man reading in public is itself enough to strike fear in the heart of a patriotic citizen.
[32:18.080 --> 32:20.660]  That, my friends, that is something to be concerned about.
[32:20.740 --> 32:21.720]  That's something to complain about.
[32:21.720 --> 32:22.600]  That's something to write about.
[32:23.080 --> 32:25.460]  And this story, this story, I haven't seen anywhere.
[32:25.820 --> 32:27.020]  You know, this has to get out there.
[32:27.080 --> 32:27.980]  Was it verified?
[32:28.520 --> 32:29.300]  Was it verified?
[32:29.500 --> 32:32.940]  The term fiction just comes to mind when I hear you read that.
[32:33.080 --> 32:34.000]  It's well-written.
[32:34.300 --> 32:35.280]  The guy's a journalist.
[32:35.280 --> 32:36.080]  I'm sorry.
[32:36.260 --> 32:37.880]  I didn't even think it was real when I read it.
[32:38.320 --> 32:39.520]  What makes you think it's not real?
[32:40.840 --> 32:42.220]  I mean, it has real names in here.
[32:42.920 --> 32:43.100]  Ooh.
[32:43.620 --> 32:47.680]  Well, in fact, I asked you guys if you wanted to look it up, and you didn't seem to want to look it up.
[32:47.680 --> 32:48.300]  I know you did.
[32:48.480 --> 32:51.900]  And personally, I felt the John Gilmore story was much more important.
[32:52.860 --> 32:54.360]  Well, I'm sorry you feel that way.
[32:54.440 --> 32:54.680]  That's okay.
[32:54.680 --> 33:00.340]  Because, you know, this is something that, you know, happens to somebody reading an article in a bookstore.
[33:00.620 --> 33:02.100]  And I'm sorry, reading it...
[33:02.100 --> 33:09.220]  You know, if you read something in a bookstore and are contacted by the FBI for that, and you're not upset by this, that's a problem.
[33:09.320 --> 33:10.680]  That's something you have to really...
[33:11.140 --> 33:14.160]  You have to really ask yourself why that doesn't bug you.
[33:14.500 --> 33:16.320]  If you assume this is fake, fine.
[33:16.640 --> 33:20.980]  You know, but I think you should prove it's fake if you're going to tell me it's something suspicious.
[33:20.980 --> 33:22.120]  It wasn't worth my time.
[33:22.220 --> 33:23.260]  That was the thing.
[33:23.340 --> 33:25.840]  Like I said, we had other things that I thought were much more important.
[33:25.920 --> 33:27.920]  This is something I think is worth pursuing.
[33:28.180 --> 33:28.480]  All right.
[33:28.600 --> 33:34.740]  And if you're just going to walk around with, you know, terrorist buttons and then, you know, cry murder when somebody questions you about that.
[33:34.740 --> 33:35.720]  It wasn't a terrorist button.
[33:35.840 --> 33:36.520]  It said suspected terrorist.
[33:36.600 --> 33:37.500]  Enough about the button.
[33:37.760 --> 33:37.860]  Really.
[33:37.960 --> 33:38.460]  This is silly.
[33:38.580 --> 33:39.080]  This is silly.
[33:39.200 --> 33:40.720]  Sorry, Mike, but I...
[33:41.480 --> 33:41.880]  All right.
[33:41.920 --> 33:43.140]  Let's see what our listeners have to say.
[33:43.260 --> 33:45.580]  212-209-2900.
[33:46.140 --> 33:47.620]  I'd like to know what people have to say about this.
[33:47.880 --> 33:50.640]  Which one of these strikes you as something worth getting upset about?
[33:50.740 --> 33:52.260]  Or do they both strike you as getting upset about?
[33:52.340 --> 33:54.800]  Or maybe nothing is worth getting upset about?
[33:55.240 --> 33:55.940]  Let's find out.
[33:56.000 --> 33:56.240]  Good evening.
[33:56.360 --> 33:56.740]  You're on the air.
[33:57.680 --> 33:57.800]  Yeah.
[33:58.020 --> 34:00.080]  About identification on planes...
[34:00.080 --> 34:00.360]  All right.
[34:00.480 --> 34:01.340]  Rebel, make it fast.
[34:01.540 --> 34:01.720]  All right.
[34:02.640 --> 34:09.220]  Amtrak and Greyhound, for the past about five years, have been asking for identification to go on buses and trains.
[34:09.640 --> 34:10.520]  And do you know why?
[34:11.060 --> 34:11.370]  Why?
[34:12.120 --> 34:13.930]  Because what they have is...
[34:13.930 --> 34:14.580]  I asked somebody.
[34:14.810 --> 34:18.760]  They have a list of America's Most Wanted, if you watch America's Most Wanted.
[34:18.760 --> 34:21.430]  They have a list, Greyhound and Amtrak.
[34:21.620 --> 34:28.720]  They have a list of America's Most Wanted and they cross-reference that so that if you're missing or suspected of a federal...
[34:28.720 --> 34:30.780]  Don't America's Most Wanted sometimes change their names?
[34:32.080 --> 34:32.480]  No.
[34:32.620 --> 34:33.310]  Well, they...
[34:33.760 --> 34:35.830]  You mean that the criminal has used an alias?
[34:35.830 --> 34:38.500]  I've heard it's a tactic that sometimes is...
[34:38.500 --> 34:40.850]  Yeah, but I mean, that's the reason why they have for identification.
[34:41.080 --> 34:42.560]  You were talking about identification.
[34:42.760 --> 34:44.280]  That's the reason why they have for identification.
[34:44.280 --> 34:45.680]  Okay, thanks for contributing that, Rebel.
[34:45.960 --> 34:46.780]  Let's go on to another phone call.
[34:46.850 --> 34:47.460]  Good evening, you're on the air.
[34:47.980 --> 34:48.450]  Yes, hello.
[34:48.680 --> 35:00.640]  I think both of the cases you're talking about are pretty awful and I'm really surprised that you don't find the thing with the button kind of scary because honestly, do you really think a real terrorist is wearing a button?
[35:00.640 --> 35:01.450]  No, of course not.
[35:01.450 --> 35:01.820]  Look at me.
[35:01.930 --> 35:02.450]  Of course not.
[35:02.450 --> 35:03.100]  Of course not.
[35:03.200 --> 35:03.960]  That's not the point.
[35:04.080 --> 35:07.560]  The point is that the person is making people around him very uneasy.
[35:08.160 --> 35:09.360]  And what's new about that?
[35:09.480 --> 35:13.520]  I mean, if you had a button that said hacker, you'd think everybody would be like, oh, I feel so at ease.
[35:13.660 --> 35:14.860]  What have they said about hackers?
[35:14.980 --> 35:17.040]  But hackers don't blow up things like airplanes.
[35:17.520 --> 35:18.680]  That's the truth.
[35:18.840 --> 35:21.450]  That's not what people are thinking who are sitting next to you.
[35:22.430 --> 35:26.880]  Look, I just think it's tremendously immature to walk around with something that's obviously going to make people upset.
[35:27.160 --> 35:29.950]  You should have a right to be immature and not be kicked off an airplane.
[35:30.360 --> 35:32.900]  I mean, it's another thing if you're actually harming up people.
[35:32.900 --> 35:33.900]  Within limits, obviously.
[35:34.120 --> 35:37.120]  I mean, you know, we don't know what people around him...
[35:37.120 --> 35:39.560]  Obviously, he disturbed the flight attendant enough to make...
[35:39.560 --> 35:40.340]  Well, let me just put it this way.
[35:40.640 --> 35:42.740]  You're right and the whole rest of the world is wrong.
[35:44.100 --> 35:44.540]  Okay.
[35:45.660 --> 35:46.540]  Thank you, caller.
[35:46.840 --> 35:48.700]  Yeah, thanks for being so mature about it.
[35:49.080 --> 35:49.720]  Good evening.
[35:49.820 --> 35:50.280]  You're on the air.
[35:51.380 --> 35:52.000]  Go ahead.
[35:52.600 --> 35:53.680]  Hi, it's George.
[35:55.380 --> 35:59.760]  I certainly agree with you about the the plane thing.
[35:59.950 --> 36:00.960]  It's not a big deal.
[36:01.180 --> 36:06.460]  He should have just cooled it and taken the stupid button off.
[36:06.950 --> 36:10.560]  However, the other story I'd like to...
[36:10.560 --> 36:16.240]  If you could guys post it somewhere, I'd like to read a little bit more about it because it's far more important.
[36:16.580 --> 36:19.300]  Let me give you a website where you can find information about that.
[36:19.460 --> 36:34.820]  It's atlanta.creativeloafing.com and the exact file name is 2003-07-17 slash rant.html And would you have that posted somewhere because I can't write that first?
[36:35.020 --> 36:35.620]  Oh, I'm sorry.
[36:36.140 --> 36:39.960]  Well, I'll tell you what, if you email us, we'll send you a copy of it.
[36:40.040 --> 36:40.460]  How about that?
[36:40.560 --> 36:40.950]  Great.
[36:41.120 --> 36:41.900]  Thank you very much.
[36:42.020 --> 36:43.960]  OTH at 2600.com Thanks.
[36:44.160 --> 36:44.360]  All right.
[36:44.460 --> 36:44.860]  Thanks for calling.
[36:46.080 --> 36:47.280]  It's one for me, one for you.
[36:47.800 --> 36:48.560]  Squares 1-1.
[36:48.780 --> 36:49.100]  Good evening.
[36:49.300 --> 36:50.180]  You're on the air.
[36:50.480 --> 36:52.720]  Hi, Emmanuel and co-host.
[36:52.950 --> 36:53.560]  Good show.
[36:53.840 --> 36:55.100]  I have two questions, Emmanuel.
[36:55.360 --> 37:04.180]  First, that shirt that you apparently were wearing recently, would you not wear that to an airport, especially if it was in the Bible Belt?
[37:04.430 --> 37:05.180]  Christianity is stupid.
[37:05.320 --> 37:06.900]  In this country, I would wear it anywhere.
[37:06.950 --> 37:16.060]  I would not go to some fundamentalist regime somewhere in the world and wear that and be surprised if something bad happened to me.
[37:16.120 --> 37:16.640]  You know what?
[37:16.680 --> 37:18.480]  I wouldn't go into the Bible Belt and wear it either.
[37:19.960 --> 37:25.200]  Yeah, I would say, sure, I have the right to do this, but I think it would be stupid.
[37:25.700 --> 37:27.430]  I don't understand why people can't see that.
[37:27.520 --> 37:30.620]  It's stupid to antagonize people in certain situations.
[37:30.740 --> 37:34.980]  And what if someone came into the station there and more Judaism is stupid?
[37:35.160 --> 37:35.860]  That would be the same.
[37:36.620 --> 37:37.320]  Sure, why not?
[37:37.430 --> 37:39.220]  I mean, you know, people have the right to free speech.
[37:39.540 --> 37:40.580]  There's nothing wrong with that.
[37:41.240 --> 37:41.840]  Okay, thanks.
[37:42.000 --> 37:42.280]  All right.
[37:42.280 --> 37:45.380]  But if you walk into other radio stations to do that, I don't know if you'd be treated as fairly.
[37:46.300 --> 37:46.740]  We'll see.
[37:47.040 --> 37:48.280]  That was kind of a draw, wasn't it?
[37:48.760 --> 37:49.240]  So far.
[37:49.380 --> 37:49.660]  All right.
[37:49.900 --> 37:50.080]  Yeah.
[37:51.020 --> 37:51.460]  Good evening.
[37:51.540 --> 37:51.980]  You're on the air.
[37:52.820 --> 37:55.240]  Different people have different opinions, and I think that...
[37:55.240 --> 37:57.020]  Yeah, but you're one person and you have the same opinion all the time.
[37:57.100 --> 37:57.340]  Good evening.
[37:57.460 --> 37:58.000]  You're on the air.
[37:58.240 --> 37:58.600]  Oh, hello?
[37:58.780 --> 37:59.280]  Yes, go ahead.
[37:59.280 --> 38:02.960]  Yeah, I just want to say I think both issues are a problem.
[38:03.560 --> 38:08.180]  You know, we're all in time to our opinions and I understand your point, meaning like it's ridiculous.
[38:08.700 --> 38:11.880]  I also understand the other person's point where it's not too ridiculous.
[38:12.600 --> 38:17.060]  But the FBI thing, I and the guy, that's...
[38:17.060 --> 38:20.380]  If it's true, I really thought what you said too was a very good point.
[38:20.500 --> 38:21.680]  We don't know if it's really true.
[38:22.420 --> 38:24.700]  If it is, it's absolutely absurd.
[38:24.930 --> 38:26.500]  It's very easy to figure out if it's true.
[38:26.620 --> 38:34.080]  All we have to do is call the FBI, see if these people exist, see if they're in the Atlanta office, see if they, you know, if they can comment at all about this, contact the guy himself.
[38:34.220 --> 38:35.040]  He put his real name there.
[38:35.080 --> 38:35.700]  He's got a website.
[38:36.000 --> 38:36.200]  Yeah.
[38:36.400 --> 38:39.360]  You know, I was hoping the staff here would do that before the show.
[38:39.360 --> 38:43.600]  I was incredibly busy doing other things and unfortunately we weren't able to do that.
[38:43.720 --> 38:46.800]  So if our listeners can do that, read it on a website, would you like me to give it to you?
[38:47.000 --> 38:47.450]  Sure, go ahead.
[38:47.450 --> 38:52.700]  It's www.veteransforcommonsense.org Okay, and what's on that site?
[38:53.220 --> 38:58.840]  It's like a lot, a bunch of like veterans what goes on but it's like progressive like veterans for peace type of thing.
[38:59.040 --> 38:59.200]  Okay.
[39:00.020 --> 39:00.960]  It's a good website.
[39:01.160 --> 39:01.800]  It's on there.
[39:01.930 --> 39:04.120]  It's called FBI Eyeing You or something like that.
[39:04.220 --> 39:06.060]  It's one of their posts they do.
[39:06.680 --> 39:07.080]  Okay.
[39:07.080 --> 39:08.430]  And they have the full story on it.
[39:08.720 --> 39:09.900]  On this particular case?
[39:10.040 --> 39:11.080]  On the FBI guy.
[39:11.460 --> 39:11.720]  Yeah.
[39:12.400 --> 39:12.740]  Okay.
[39:13.120 --> 39:15.280]  You're talking about the same guy in the bookstore that we just talked about.
[39:15.340 --> 39:16.360]  I believe so, yeah.
[39:16.360 --> 39:21.240]  He has a card showing the FBI a picture of that guy Okay.
[39:21.640 --> 39:22.950]  Showing the FBI card.
[39:23.960 --> 39:24.760]  veteransforcommonsense.com?
[39:25.320 --> 39:27.600]  .org .org .org Yeah.
[39:27.780 --> 39:28.400]  You got to type that, Mike?
[39:28.430 --> 39:29.040]  It's one word.
[39:30.860 --> 39:32.080]  veteransforcommonsense.org Okay.
[39:32.160 --> 39:33.160]  No hyphens or anything like that.
[39:33.220 --> 39:33.320]  Okay.
[39:33.320 --> 39:33.960]  We'll check into that.
[39:34.040 --> 39:34.220]  Thanks.
[39:34.380 --> 39:34.560]  Yeah.
[39:34.720 --> 39:39.200]  And I understand both views and I think it's just it's getting crazy in this country.
[39:39.220 --> 39:40.840]  And I'm a veteran myself so it's...
[39:40.840 --> 39:41.760]  Yeah, it's getting crazy.
[39:41.840 --> 39:42.560]  I agree with you totally.
[39:42.760 --> 39:43.500]  It's getting ridiculous.
[39:43.800 --> 39:45.430]  You know, pick your battles.
[39:45.430 --> 39:46.540]  I guess that's what I'm trying to say.
[39:46.600 --> 39:47.540]  I understand your view.
[39:47.740 --> 39:49.380]  I also understand the other guys' skills.
[39:49.620 --> 39:49.820]  Okay.
[39:50.140 --> 39:50.640]  Red Hack, go ahead.
[39:50.680 --> 39:53.020]  Don't they have a suspected book list too?
[39:53.180 --> 39:57.640]  Like a terrorist book list that libraries are supposed to report if you take out books or something like that?
[39:57.740 --> 39:59.320]  I've heard mention of that.
[39:59.480 --> 40:01.580]  I haven't seen specific instances of it.
[40:01.860 --> 40:07.220]  And that's the kind of thing that, you know, when people are targeted you've got to really be...
[40:07.220 --> 40:07.540]  Yes, James?
[40:07.640 --> 40:21.380]  According to Nat Hentoff's column in The Voice last year, The Village Voice, you're not going to hear about instances of that because librarians and bookstore owners are not allowed to tell you when the FBI visits and starts asking who's read these books.
[40:21.560 --> 40:24.260]  A lot of libraries were also refusing to comply.
[40:24.760 --> 40:25.860]  Yeah, they were destroying the list.
[40:26.160 --> 40:33.060]  Librarians are people that, you know, very much stand up for freedom of speech and the right to, you know, to read whatever it is you want to read.
[40:33.260 --> 40:39.900]  So look for all kinds of ways that they're going to, you know, not comply with that and let us know what's really going on.
[40:40.080 --> 40:43.080]  Librarians are people you don't want to piss off, most definitely.
[40:44.320 --> 40:47.880]  I'm looking at this site now and I see a picture of a bearded guy holding an FBI card.
[40:47.960 --> 40:50.720]  Mike, is that the actual guy's name?
[40:50.950 --> 40:57.480]  Well, it's a copy of the article that we read to you from Creative Loafing and there is a photograph.
[40:58.540 --> 41:01.120]  For some reason, the browser won't let me...
[41:01.120 --> 41:01.960]  Oh, I saw the photograph.
[41:01.960 --> 41:02.680]  Oh, there it is.
[41:03.020 --> 41:05.950]  It's a guy, a bearded guy holding a business card.
[41:06.180 --> 41:08.950]  You can see the FBI seal but, you know, it's a small photograph.
[41:08.950 --> 41:09.620]  It could be a fake guy.
[41:10.040 --> 41:12.000]  Yeah, this guy's gone to a lot of trouble, hasn't he?
[41:12.140 --> 41:13.120]  But we'll have to see.
[41:13.820 --> 41:15.020]  All right, the last call is a draw, too, right?
[41:15.240 --> 41:16.240]  Yeah, we're still 1-1.
[41:16.480 --> 41:16.760]  All right.
[41:17.520 --> 41:18.120]  And good evening.
[41:18.220 --> 41:18.700]  You're on the air.
[41:19.240 --> 41:19.930]  Hi there, yes.
[41:20.200 --> 41:22.020]  I just haven't heard the rest of the program.
[41:22.160 --> 41:23.020]  I just got on now.
[41:23.200 --> 41:24.460]  Oh, you missed quite a bit.
[41:24.560 --> 41:25.200]  I bet you I did.
[41:25.260 --> 41:27.980]  But let me tell you something I was appreciated with all this.
[41:28.120 --> 41:30.760]  That radio station in Costa Rica, have you talked about that yet?
[41:31.020 --> 41:32.160]  What radio station in Costa Rica?
[41:32.640 --> 41:33.080]  FSRN.
[41:34.140 --> 41:34.580]  FSRN?
[41:34.700 --> 41:35.400]  You don't know about this.
[41:35.400 --> 41:36.460]  Free speech radio news?
[41:36.600 --> 41:36.760]  Yes.
[41:37.200 --> 41:37.640]  Wait.
[41:37.640 --> 41:40.700]  Not the news, the radio station that's down there, free speech something.
[41:41.180 --> 41:41.460]  Okay.
[41:41.660 --> 41:42.430]  They're in Costa Rica.
[41:42.560 --> 41:44.120]  They play a lot of Pacifica stuff.
[41:44.580 --> 41:45.480]  I had no idea.
[41:45.660 --> 41:48.200]  I heard Costa Rica is at odds with our government right now.
[41:48.430 --> 41:50.220]  Jack-booted thugs have gotten there today.
[41:50.600 --> 41:53.760]  And so I read on New Pacifica just today.
[41:54.020 --> 41:54.260]  Really?
[41:54.740 --> 41:57.700]  The jack-booted thugs have got there and tried to close it down.
[41:57.820 --> 42:01.280]  They barred the doors and chain-locked this and that.
[42:01.700 --> 42:02.140]  Uh-huh.
[42:02.380 --> 42:03.430]  So look at New Pacifica.
[42:03.480 --> 42:04.950]  You'll see as much as I've seen.
[42:05.020 --> 42:06.100]  It's newpacifica.org.
[42:06.600 --> 42:07.720]  Well, no, I don't know.
[42:07.950 --> 42:08.450]  You're on that...
[42:08.450 --> 42:09.120]  It's a mailing list.
[42:09.220 --> 42:09.960]  Oh, it's a mailing list.
[42:10.060 --> 42:12.860]  Okay, well, how can listeners see it who aren't on the mailing list?
[42:13.540 --> 42:14.840]  Is that an archive somewhere?
[42:15.020 --> 42:15.200]  Yeah.
[42:15.560 --> 42:16.280]  Is there a way they can...
[42:16.280 --> 42:18.220]  Why don't I email it to you and you put it somewhere?
[42:18.480 --> 42:19.340]  Oh, we can try that.
[42:19.860 --> 42:21.860]  I'll get on and find it and get it to you.
[42:21.960 --> 42:23.060]  What's your email address?
[42:23.200 --> 42:24.950]  O-T-H at 2600.com.
[42:25.320 --> 42:28.220]  H-O-T-H at 2600.com.
[42:28.220 --> 42:29.160]  2600.com.
[42:29.320 --> 42:31.460]  What is that 2600 thing, a news group?
[42:31.660 --> 42:32.340]  It's just awful.
[42:32.820 --> 42:33.300]  Oh, no.
[42:33.980 --> 42:35.140]  We're not affiliated with the news.
[42:35.200 --> 42:36.460]  You're talking about Alt.2600.
[42:36.580 --> 42:37.360]  We've got nothing to do with that.
[42:37.560 --> 42:37.720]  Okay.
[42:38.000 --> 42:40.120]  We're the magazine and the website.
[42:40.320 --> 42:41.340]  Why don't you have a news group?
[42:41.430 --> 42:42.040]  You could use one.
[42:42.220 --> 42:43.000]  Well, I don't know.
[42:43.140 --> 42:43.960]  You see, the problem...
[42:43.960 --> 42:52.450]  All right, what happens when you have, you know, a news group with people just, you know, randomly spouting whatever it is they want to spout, you have chaos, anarchy, and, you know, no real sense of direction.
[42:53.100 --> 42:54.700]  And a full mailbox and a lot of spam.
[42:54.900 --> 42:56.220]  I came up with this little thing.
[42:56.220 --> 43:01.320]  You know, the long arm of the arm, the long arm of the law, it's a long arm of the outlaw.
[43:01.720 --> 43:02.180]  Uh-huh.
[43:03.020 --> 43:04.200]  Reaches down to Costa Rica.
[43:04.540 --> 43:05.960]  Okay, well, I'd like to know more about that.
[43:06.040 --> 43:06.740]  So send that to us.
[43:06.820 --> 43:07.340]  We'll report on it.
[43:07.450 --> 43:07.640]  Okay.
[43:07.840 --> 43:08.040]  Thanks.
[43:08.180 --> 43:08.260]  Bye.
[43:09.080 --> 43:10.260]  212-209-2900.
[43:10.450 --> 43:10.900]  This is off the hook.
[43:11.120 --> 43:11.720]  And good evening.
[43:11.760 --> 43:12.280]  You're on the air.
[43:13.180 --> 43:13.720]  Um, yes.
[43:13.950 --> 43:15.680]  What about the, um...
[43:16.120 --> 43:17.500]  Does everybody sound like Rebel tonight?
[43:17.760 --> 43:18.620]  Is it just me?
[43:19.220 --> 43:19.620]  All right.
[43:19.740 --> 43:20.860]  Rebel, no more calls from you.
[43:20.860 --> 43:22.480]  You gave him a taste of the good life.
[43:22.520 --> 43:23.450]  And here's the other thing, Rebel.
[43:23.600 --> 43:28.960]  No more calls from you until you explain yourself with the whole, uh, you know, signing me up for the Army Reserves thing, okay?
[43:29.840 --> 43:30.240]  Yeah.
[43:30.950 --> 43:34.360]  You know, and I guess I should admit the truth now that I'm not really going to Europe.
[43:34.460 --> 43:37.500]  I'm actually going to have to go to basic training now for the next six weeks.
[43:37.780 --> 43:38.460]  Thanks a lot.
[43:39.500 --> 43:40.100]  Good evening.
[43:40.220 --> 43:40.640]  You're on the air.
[43:41.080 --> 43:43.160]  Well, I've never gotten on your show before.
[43:43.360 --> 43:49.560]  So, um, you know, what's an interesting thing if you're concerned about privacy is the whole child welfare establishment.
[43:49.920 --> 43:54.300]  I really can't give my credentials out over the air because I'm actually still employed.
[43:54.300 --> 44:01.620]  But, um, anybody in this state can dial an 800 number and turn your life upside down.
[44:01.800 --> 44:03.200]  There are things they can do.
[44:03.340 --> 44:06.700]  They can call up and say that you're beating a kid when you don't even have a kid.
[44:07.180 --> 44:16.260]  And it will be, it will be quasi-judicial morons trying to knock your door down and possibly getting court orders looking for your non-existent baby.
[44:16.800 --> 44:23.700]  And then when they do take your kid from you, they give the kid to a foster parent who are more likely to not abuse the kid.
[44:23.880 --> 44:25.680]  And I'm not talking out my rear here.
[44:25.820 --> 44:26.940]  I work in the system.
[44:27.540 --> 44:37.260]  Um, the stuff that, that, that, that, um, issue you cited with the, uh, FBI, it's entertaining, but I think it's really probably just an anomaly.
[44:37.460 --> 44:49.140]  I mean, I got called for jury duty and I sat in the front row reading the anarchist cookbook with the dead Kennedy's t-shirt and after a few hours the judge looked at me and said, put that crap away or I'll send you on grand jury for nine months.
[44:49.480 --> 44:49.840]  Okay?
[44:50.060 --> 44:55.420]  I mean, I don't think there's much you can do in the New York metropolitan area to actually get the FBI after you.
[44:55.560 --> 44:56.440]  Well, this was in Georgia.
[44:56.880 --> 44:58.340]  Okay, well, that, that explained it.
[44:58.460 --> 45:00.860]  And I'm going to leave you with a little anecdote before I go.
[45:01.120 --> 45:16.000]  I really don't want to tip my hat as to who I am, but I was working some years back with DEA and, uh, they told me that Aldrich James' wife tried three times to turn him in and all three times she got thrown out of the FBI office because she smelled like alcohol.
[45:16.300 --> 45:16.740]  Okay?
[45:16.980 --> 45:17.240]  Interesting.
[45:17.360 --> 45:23.460]  A lot of these, a lot of these guys that you hear about doing these shenanigans are actually not deep cover agents.
[45:23.660 --> 45:25.900]  They're not like the Johnny Brasco types.
[45:26.140 --> 45:26.300]  Uh-huh.
[45:26.500 --> 45:28.540]  These are the guys who couldn't do deep cover work.
[45:28.920 --> 45:29.320]  Okay?
[45:29.500 --> 45:38.140]  The FBI recruits, uh, people with a certain degree of education and from a certain background and they don't get a lot of really good deep cover agents.
[45:38.920 --> 45:42.200]  Um, NYPD, by the way, is four times the size of the FBI.
[45:42.640 --> 45:47.560]  So, when you think about the FBI, it's more entertaining than anything else.
[45:47.680 --> 45:53.520]  There aren't really enough agents to go around and, as we know, they haven't cracked a lot of the real important cases.
[45:54.040 --> 45:57.920]  Uh, otherwise, a lot of these terrorists would be hanging from lampposts, but they're not.
[45:57.920 --> 46:00.260]  So, I'll let, I'll let you go back to your show.
[46:00.380 --> 46:01.400]  I'm enjoying listening to it.
[46:01.640 --> 46:02.280]  Okay, thanks for calling.
[46:04.200 --> 46:05.760]  212-209-2900.
[46:05.840 --> 46:06.140]  2-1.
[46:06.300 --> 46:07.140]  Can we, can we go 2-1?
[46:07.180 --> 46:08.180]  Oh, wait, how'd they get to the one?
[46:08.280 --> 46:09.220]  All right, all right.
[46:10.180 --> 46:10.940]  Nice try, Jeff.
[46:11.220 --> 46:12.440]  I had a shot.
[46:12.720 --> 46:13.660]  Good evening, you're on the air.
[46:13.880 --> 46:20.980]  Uh, yeah, at this button, the suspected terrorist, did it say suspected terrorist question mark or just suspected terrorist?
[46:21.620 --> 46:23.300]  You think the question mark would have made a difference?
[46:23.520 --> 46:38.920]  I think it could have made some difference because I'm, I mean, I'm on the side of people who say that it was wrong, but, uh, but I think it would have altered it a little bit because at least it would have made it clear that the person was questioning something and not declaring something.
[46:39.260 --> 46:40.720]  Yeah, I could, I could see that, but you know...
[46:40.720 --> 46:42.900]  But they should be declaring it because they are suspected terrorists.
[46:43.160 --> 46:51.920]  Of course they are, But sometimes, you know, we're living in a world where planes really did blow up, and life does not happen in a college dorm room.
[46:52.100 --> 46:55.920]  This is starting to sound like a college dorm conversation.
[46:56.260 --> 47:03.040]  You see, what you have to understand is that, yeah, you know, people who read the same articles know the references, they understand all this kind of thing.
[47:03.740 --> 47:05.440]  But the people who don't, what do they get?
[47:05.580 --> 47:08.760]  You know, what does somebody, you know, say, three seats away think when they see this?
[47:09.260 --> 47:13.500]  You know, it's... you just have to look at it from that point of view.
[47:13.500 --> 47:13.720]  I agree.
[47:14.040 --> 47:21.720]  And then, but choice of words that people have been using, that I've been hearing, like saying things like making people uncomfortable, it's a little worse than uncomfortable.
[47:22.120 --> 47:25.460]  I mean, choices like that are very manipulative little word choices.
[47:25.760 --> 47:30.320]  When people are, someone gets on with a button like that, I wouldn't know what to think.
[47:32.640 --> 47:40.920]  It's one of those things where, like, in the reality we're living in where something really did happen, it's not a hypothetical reality anymore.
[47:40.920 --> 47:42.380]  It's a real reality.
[47:42.380 --> 47:43.920]  Would you want to get off the plane?
[47:44.840 --> 47:45.200]  What?
[47:45.480 --> 47:47.640]  If I, if I saw someone with that?
[47:47.820 --> 47:47.940]  Yeah.
[47:49.360 --> 47:51.380]  If they were, if they were allowed to wear the button.
[47:52.460 --> 47:56.280]  Personally, I might talk to them, but I'm thinking about everyone there.
[47:56.440 --> 47:59.980]  I mean, I'm the kind of person that probably would engage them in conversation.
[48:00.580 --> 48:01.860]  But, like, uh...
[48:01.860 --> 48:03.200]  And be a better person for it.
[48:03.280 --> 48:05.840]  Yeah, but the thing is, you know, there's a couple hundred other people on the airplane.
[48:06.220 --> 48:07.660]  You know, are they all going to engage in conversation?
[48:07.660 --> 48:10.180]  Or might some people be, you know, kind of intimidated by this?
[48:10.180 --> 48:11.880]  I think it's intimidating to do that.
[48:11.880 --> 48:12.160]  I agree with you.
[48:12.440 --> 48:12.960]  Only a few people.
[48:12.960 --> 48:15.980]  I agree that it's the wrong thing to do to wear it.
[48:17.060 --> 48:19.060]  It's only because it intimidates people.
[48:19.280 --> 48:21.720]  You know, obviously, yes, you have the right to say things.
[48:21.780 --> 48:22.880]  You have the right to wear buttons.
[48:23.020 --> 48:24.380]  I'm not, I'm not debating that.
[48:24.660 --> 48:27.940]  But there are certain situations where you know you're going to make people uncomfortable.
[48:28.200 --> 48:28.440]  But it could also be...
[48:28.440 --> 48:29.960]  It's immature to just go ahead and do that.
[48:29.960 --> 48:33.340]  It could also be interpreted as mocking a huge tragedy.
[48:33.520 --> 48:38.300]  And there's a lot of perceptions that, that can be gleaned from that.
[48:38.300 --> 48:40.300]  Not everyone is going to think the same thing.
[48:40.400 --> 48:48.380]  Because saying suspected terrorist is very vague and specific, just depending on who's looking at it.
[48:48.640 --> 48:56.060]  And, sir, I think, too, if you knew John Gilmore and what he stood for, you'd understand that he in no way was mocking the situation.
[48:56.420 --> 48:57.700]  Yeah, but how many people are facing the airplane knew him?
[48:57.700 --> 48:58.940]  Does everyone there know him?
[48:59.060 --> 49:00.080]  Yeah, that's the point.
[49:00.180 --> 49:01.500]  Nobody knows him on the airplane.
[49:01.500 --> 49:05.300]  But it does, when you wear buttons, it does give you the opportunity to talk and educate.
[49:05.300 --> 49:07.160]  Not to an entire airplane full of people.
[49:07.380 --> 49:08.920]  No, the entire airplane isn't going to see it.
[49:08.980 --> 49:12.900]  Yeah, most people wouldn't see it, unless they make a big issue out of it by pointing it out.
[49:12.940 --> 49:13.580]  Word would spread pretty fast.
[49:13.720 --> 49:16.260]  I would bet word would spread pretty fast about something like that.
[49:16.620 --> 49:21.540]  True, you know, it was a tiny button, you know, and one person saw it, and look what the commotion it caused.
[49:22.000 --> 49:23.660]  You know, imagine if somebody had seen it mid-flight.
[49:23.800 --> 49:24.420]  What could have happened?
[49:24.600 --> 49:28.860]  You know, if he was refusing to, you know, to be cooperative with them at that point.
[49:29.400 --> 49:33.100]  You know, they're very antsy up there in the sky, 45,000 feet above the ocean.
[49:33.100 --> 49:42.560]  Well, it's a reality when a plane blows up, and it's not like an academic little conversation that people have when they're in college.
[49:42.560 --> 49:44.060]  It's a reality.
[49:44.360 --> 49:47.960]  True, but if we're going to talk realities, let's try to remember, it's a button.
[49:48.720 --> 50:07.740]  Of course it's a button, but if someone was wearing a button saying, suspected rapist, anything, there's a whole bunch of words that can set off, like, a total questioning process of people not knowing what the person means, what they're making fun of.
[50:07.820 --> 50:10.660]  It seems like they're making fun of reality, too.
[50:10.760 --> 50:12.240]  There's many perceptions on this.
[50:12.240 --> 50:21.160]  You see, that's the issue, that the perceptions, it's like everyone's talking so long, that could keep the plane from taking off for, like, six hours.
[50:22.180 --> 50:29.720]  No, instead, they decided to turn it around and delay the passengers even more because he wouldn't remove a button.
[50:30.040 --> 50:30.800]  Yeah, I mean, I agree.
[50:30.920 --> 50:32.320]  The outcome was pretty silly.
[50:32.440 --> 50:35.120]  I just, I question whose fault it was that it got so silly.
[50:35.820 --> 50:41.680]  You know, if you were wearing a button that said suspected dissident or something like that, and you got thrown off for that, you know, that's a real issue.
[50:41.720 --> 50:43.420]  That's a real issue because, you know...
[50:43.420 --> 50:44.640]  Well, it has a whole different meaning.
[50:44.660 --> 50:45.300]  A whole different meaning.
[50:45.380 --> 50:48.380]  A dissident is somebody who's questioning authority, which is what basically he's doing.
[50:48.500 --> 50:53.900]  But you throw out certain, you know, certain phrases that really are designed simply to trigger responses in people.
[50:54.020 --> 50:55.780]  You can't be surprised when those responses are triggered.
[50:55.960 --> 50:57.040]  Let's move on to another phone call.
[50:57.160 --> 50:57.380]  Thanks.
[50:57.520 --> 50:57.860]  Thank you.
[50:57.960 --> 50:58.500]  Thanks for your call.
[50:58.620 --> 50:59.980]  And I'd say that makes it two to one, Jeff.
[51:00.360 --> 51:00.940]  I'll give you that.
[51:01.620 --> 51:01.940]  Okay.
[51:02.520 --> 51:02.840]  Surprised?
[51:03.080 --> 51:03.360]  Good evening.
[51:03.440 --> 51:03.840]  You're on the air.
[51:04.380 --> 51:04.700]  Hi.
[51:04.900 --> 51:05.300]  How you doing?
[51:05.580 --> 51:06.360]  I just like to...
[51:06.360 --> 51:06.880]  I'm doing all right.
[51:06.880 --> 51:07.240]  How are you?
[51:08.840 --> 51:17.640]  Yeah, I'd just like to say wearing that button is kind of like wearing a button that says I have diarrhea at a convention of people that just had dysentery.
[51:18.080 --> 51:20.240]  And that it doesn't really, you know, do any...
[51:20.240 --> 51:23.940]  There's obviously a social problem here, but wearing the button isn't solving anything.
[51:24.100 --> 51:29.160]  And if anything, it's aggravating the nerves of people that have to live with this just like everybody else.
[51:29.240 --> 51:29.460]  Thank you.
[51:29.600 --> 51:31.400]  I think you said it better than I've been saying it.
[51:31.460 --> 51:31.960]  I really do.
[51:32.600 --> 51:33.660]  That's precisely it.
[51:33.760 --> 51:34.060]  Thank you.
[51:34.240 --> 51:37.540]  Yeah, and I'd like to say that the FBI...
[51:37.540 --> 51:41.080]  I was interested, the guy that said that it was amusing, that other story.
[51:41.340 --> 51:51.180]  But I still would say that that's a much more serious infringement on freedom of speech by a government agency than by a stewardess who is...
[51:51.180 --> 51:53.780]  Or I should say flight attendant, right, who is obviously...
[51:53.780 --> 52:00.920]  I mean, if anything, the staff of the airplane is like the ones under the most pressure because they're the first ones to get killed in a real terrorist situation.
[52:02.540 --> 52:07.780]  Sure, and again, I was just questioning the reality of it, not necessarily whether it was important or not.
[52:07.900 --> 52:09.520]  I just wanted to know if it was real first.
[52:09.760 --> 52:09.880]  Right.
[52:09.980 --> 52:16.000]  But the reality of his button doesn't matter as much as the airplane staff's ability to function...
[52:16.000 --> 52:16.620]  No, no, I'm talking about the...
[52:16.620 --> 52:18.140]  ...under all the stress they're already under.
[52:18.320 --> 52:18.540]  Yeah.
[52:18.540 --> 52:20.920]  On the reality of the FBI story in Georgia?
[52:21.200 --> 52:21.720]  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[52:21.780 --> 52:23.940]  That's the thing I was talking about is I didn't know if...
[52:23.940 --> 52:26.580]  I mean, I'm not saying it's any less important as far as freedom of speech.
[52:26.860 --> 52:28.800]  I didn't know if it was genuine, that's all.
[52:28.800 --> 52:36.160]  Right, and again, it's a much more important story, so I'm surprised there hasn't been more coverage, unless it's not real, right?
[52:36.220 --> 52:43.780]  But you'd think something this story by... something this important by now, we would all know whether or not it was real, because it's a much bigger deal than...
[52:43.780 --> 52:48.500]  Let's try and look into it as a listening community and see if it is real, and we'll report on that.
[52:48.580 --> 52:50.480]  Well, you've got the internet hooked up in there now, right?
[52:50.500 --> 52:51.700]  You can look everything up again?
[52:51.840 --> 52:57.340]  Yeah, but somehow it isn't always true what we see on the internet, but yeah, we can look at the whole internet from here.
[52:58.340 --> 52:59.660]  I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing.
[52:59.760 --> 53:01.300]  Hey, thanks again for letting me on your show.
[53:01.360 --> 53:02.040]  Okay, thanks for calling.
[53:03.030 --> 53:04.620]  Jeff, we're going to have to move fast if you want to catch up.
[53:04.740 --> 53:05.340]  We're three to one now.
[53:05.380 --> 53:06.260]  Yes, well, let me pick the button.
[53:06.280 --> 53:10.740]  You pick the button, and how you can tell which one of these is going to be on your side.
[53:10.820 --> 53:11.280]  Okay, go ahead.
[53:11.400 --> 53:12.080]  Good evening, you're on the air.
[53:13.300 --> 53:13.860]  I'm on the air?
[53:13.960 --> 53:14.380]  Yeah, go ahead.
[53:14.880 --> 53:16.860]  I definitely agree with you about the button.
[53:17.060 --> 53:18.000]  It was a simple thing.
[53:18.120 --> 53:19.620]  You've got to respect people, right?
[53:19.900 --> 53:20.100]  Okay.
[53:20.260 --> 53:20.440]  Right.
[53:20.760 --> 53:27.360]  I don't agree with you by not seeing what those other guys were saying about, hey, this is getting dangerous.
[53:27.400 --> 53:28.740]  Are you going to be taken to jail?
[53:29.040 --> 53:36.700]  Now, this other issue also about the guy getting interviewed by the FBI for reading an article in a store.
[53:36.760 --> 53:40.220]  I mean, are we back to Nazi Germany or what?
[53:40.220 --> 53:43.440]  Yeah, that's how I feel, yeah.
[53:43.620 --> 53:45.060]  It's a scary thing.
[53:45.200 --> 53:46.060]  I'm a little confused.
[53:46.060 --> 53:47.180]  How do you feel about the button again?
[53:47.920 --> 53:48.800]  It's three to two.
[53:48.960 --> 53:51.000]  You're right about what you're saying about the button.
[53:51.200 --> 53:54.060]  You should have common sense, and you should have respect for other people.
[53:54.220 --> 53:55.400]  Should he have removed the button or not?
[53:55.940 --> 53:56.240]  Yeah.
[53:56.780 --> 53:58.740]  If everybody's saying, come on, remove the button.
[53:59.080 --> 54:01.320]  Now, is it his right to hold on to that button?
[54:01.540 --> 54:01.900]  Yes.
[54:01.960 --> 54:02.960]  Yes, I agree with that.
[54:03.880 --> 54:05.060]  I've always agreed with that.
[54:06.100 --> 54:06.960]  Why am I getting looks?
[54:06.980 --> 54:08.420]  I never said he couldn't hold on to the button.
[54:09.140 --> 54:11.340]  He's displaying the button and making people uncomfortable.
[54:11.540 --> 54:11.880]  That's what I was...
[54:11.880 --> 54:12.180]  Yeah.
[54:12.400 --> 54:21.160]  I mean, if we're in a crowd of people, or if we're in a small party of people, if I sit in that studio with you guys, I don't got the right to disrupt stuff there.
[54:21.340 --> 54:26.480]  I don't got the right to keep expressing views that everybody is uncomfortable with, even if I'm right.
[54:26.640 --> 54:29.400]  Well, you don't have the right to express views everyone's comfortable with if you're being disruptive, too.
[54:29.540 --> 54:31.880]  You know, it's a question of making people uncomfortable around you.
[54:31.960 --> 54:32.100]  Yes.
[54:32.200 --> 54:32.520]  That is right.
[54:32.760 --> 54:33.600]  Well, thanks for understanding.
[54:34.360 --> 54:35.040]  All right, take care.
[54:35.040 --> 54:35.040]  There.
[54:36.780 --> 54:37.780]  And I picked that one.
[54:37.880 --> 54:38.380]  We got to go?
[54:38.680 --> 54:40.780]  Just try one more, because I feel sorry for you now.
[54:42.540 --> 54:43.120]  Good evening.
[54:43.280 --> 54:43.760]  You're on the air.
[54:44.160 --> 54:47.380]  Yeah, is this a hockey show or a yacker show?
[54:47.460 --> 54:47.980]  I don't know.
[54:47.980 --> 54:48.540]  I don't know.
[54:48.820 --> 54:52.140]  Listen, freedom of speech, you cannot violate it.
[54:52.160 --> 54:53.060]  I think I know where this is from.
[54:53.060 --> 54:58.780]  For instance, suppose you had the button that said, America is great, but you had it upside down.
[54:59.080 --> 55:05.440]  Already, there's suspicion that you're making a comment on the fact that you don't think America is great.
[55:05.760 --> 55:06.080]  You see?
[55:06.320 --> 55:06.460]  Right.
[55:06.780 --> 55:12.060]  So, I mean, the thing is, freedom of speech is either freedom of speech or forget about it.
[55:12.200 --> 55:19.140]  The point is, you cannot, how shall I put it, in any way lessen it or tample with it.
[55:19.140 --> 55:25.360]  But then you have to get to what people's opinions are based on, and what they think, and so on and so forth.
[55:25.440 --> 55:27.240]  Okay, so you would not have taken the button off, right?
[55:27.820 --> 55:30.960]  The point is that the person... Yes, no, because we're out of time.
[55:31.360 --> 55:34.280]  Yeah, the person who's not wearing the button might be the real...
[55:34.280 --> 55:35.580]  The guy with his shoes.
[55:35.620 --> 55:37.040]  What about the guy working on his shoes?
[55:37.040 --> 55:37.340]  Okay, okay.
[55:37.520 --> 55:38.260]  You've made your point.
[55:38.840 --> 55:38.920]  Thank you.
[55:38.920 --> 55:39.460]  Okay, thank you.
[55:39.520 --> 55:41.220]  Well, you have Monroe on your side.
[55:41.620 --> 55:42.100]  And you know what?
[55:42.100 --> 55:43.120]  I wouldn't have had it any other way.
[55:45.100 --> 55:46.280]  But that's it.
[55:46.880 --> 55:50.960]  I plan to make a button that says, wrong button, when I fly next week.
[55:50.980 --> 55:54.480]  Now, if you get thrown off a plane for that, believe me, that's going to be a big story right there.
[55:54.640 --> 55:57.660]  Get a t-shirt that says, we are all suspected terrorists.
[55:58.020 --> 56:00.580]  And see, I think that should fly, so to speak.
[56:00.760 --> 56:03.500]  When you have the... it's just the word is going to get people uncomfortable.
[56:03.740 --> 56:07.080]  I mean, you'll have less problems with that, I think.
[56:07.180 --> 56:10.420]  But it's still going to make some people uncomfortable, and you just respect other people.
[56:11.180 --> 56:12.120]  Okay, we're out of time.
[56:12.280 --> 56:15.140]  And I don't know exactly how the show's going to work next week.
[56:15.140 --> 56:17.060]  But it's going to work somehow.
[56:17.160 --> 56:19.440]  It's going to be one of those crazy shows where I'm on from somewhere else.
[56:20.860 --> 56:24.980]  And the next six weeks are going to be kind of interesting, as opposed to what they've been.
[56:26.540 --> 56:29.040]  So we're going to be talking about the Chaos Communications Camp.
[56:29.080 --> 56:32.580]  We're going to be doing all kinds of remote broadcast from over in Europe.
[56:33.920 --> 56:37.080]  And keep writing to us, OTH at 2600.com.
[56:37.300 --> 56:38.580]  Is there anything else we have to mention to people?
[56:38.580 --> 56:40.700]  Well, I think that's pretty much it.
[56:40.820 --> 56:41.440]  Thanks for all your calls.
[56:41.520 --> 56:42.180]  Thanks for all the support.
[56:42.380 --> 56:44.800]  And we'll be back next week.
[56:44.960 --> 56:46.180]  Same time, different place.
[56:47.240 --> 56:50.760]  We'll just see what the technology brings to us.
[56:50.940 --> 56:53.340]  And again, write to us, OTH at 2600.com.
[56:54.460 --> 56:55.380]  We'll see you next week.
[56:55.460 --> 56:57.940]  Stay tuned for the Personal Computer Show here on WBAI New York.
[57:22.780 --> 57:27.860]  We'll see you next week.
[57:27.940 --> 57:45.960]  We'll see
[57:56.230 --> 58:08.010]  you next week.
[58:33.700 --> 58:37.900]  The Midnight Ravers are proud to present Talking Blues.
[58:38.280 --> 58:41.580]  Three hours of spoken word and explosive music.
[58:42.060 --> 58:47.840]  Tune in to hear some of the fiercest, revolutionary, hypnotic reggae rhythms and passion singing.
[58:47.840 --> 58:56.600]  Militant music that stirs the conscience, even as it excites the ear, mobilizes the feet, and reveals the world's situation.
[58:57.200 --> 59:10.880]  Featuring Midnight, Malcolm X, Nacio Fontaine, Angela Davis, Steel Pulse, Kwame Ture, Bob Marley, Mumia Abu Jamal, and many others.
[59:10.880 --> 59:17.200]  That's on Friday, July 25th, 2003, from 12 midnight to 3 a.m.
[59:17.460 --> 59:21.200]  Only on 99.5 WBAI in New York.
[59:21.620 --> 59:22.680]  Talking Blues.
[59:22.960 --> 59:24.740]  It's gonna be a reggae-lution.
[59:25.040 --> 59:29.720]  The Midnight Ravers, where every show is a special.
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[59:29.880 --> 59:29.920]  the Midnight Ravers, the Midnight Ravers, the Midnight Ravers, the Midnight Ravers, the Midnight Ravers, the Midnight Ravers, the Midnight Ravers, the Midnight Ravers, the Midnight Ravers, the Midnight Ravers, the Midnight Ravers, the Midnight Ravers,
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