[00:00.000 --> 00:07.560]  All these really big projects that don't benefit the people who are now, you know, stranded at bus stops, not having any public transportation.
[00:07.920 --> 00:10.720]  Up to 9,000 workers could potentially honor the strike.
[00:10.900 --> 00:20.560]  That's in addition to the over 70,000 grocery workers and hundreds of sheriff's deputies in Los Angeles who have also walked out in defense of health and pension benefits.
[00:21.240 --> 00:24.300]  For Free Speech Radio News, I'm Teresa Wersbianska.
[00:26.840 --> 00:28.760]  This is Free Speech Radio News.
[00:28.980 --> 00:29.840]  I'm Deepa Fernandez.
[00:34.590 --> 00:40.390]  And you're listening to radio station WBAI New York, where it's just about 7 o'clock on the nose.
[00:40.670 --> 00:44.690]  Stay tuned for a special two-hour version of Off the Hook.
[00:50.120 --> 00:54.580]  The telephone keeps ringing, so I ripped it off the wall.
[00:55.560 --> 01:00.120]  I cut myself while shaving, now I can't make a cough.
[01:00.800 --> 01:05.420]  We couldn't get much worse, but if they could, they would.
[01:44.880 --> 01:46.000]  We're sorry.
[01:46.200 --> 01:48.340]  The number you are calling from has been disconnected.
[01:48.760 --> 01:51.700]  For assistance, please contact your customer care representative.
[01:52.120 --> 01:52.700]  Thank you.
[01:53.620 --> 01:54.180]  NWK1.
[01:55.680 --> 01:56.580]  We're sorry.
[01:56.760 --> 01:58.920]  The number you are calling from has been disconnected.
[01:58.920 --> 02:02.240]  For assistance, please contact your customer care representative.
[02:02.660 --> 02:03.240]  Thank you.
[02:04.240 --> 02:04.680]  NWK1.
[02:05.400 --> 02:06.520]  Has that ever happened to you?
[02:08.520 --> 02:08.960]  Never?
[02:09.220 --> 02:10.220]  Yeah, once or twice.
[02:10.540 --> 02:16.520]  Well, I got that recording last week when I picked up my phone and tried to make a call.
[02:16.640 --> 02:18.760]  And it turned out that it was a billing snafu.
[02:19.200 --> 02:19.900]  It really was.
[02:19.920 --> 02:21.240]  That's generally what happens to me, too.
[02:21.240 --> 02:25.640]  They turned off my phone service because they said I didn't pay the bill.
[02:27.140 --> 02:30.780]  And the thing is, well, no, I didn't pay the bill because the bill is supposed to be paid automatically.
[02:31.420 --> 02:32.760]  And apparently they forgot to do that.
[02:33.400 --> 02:37.080]  So this always happens on a holiday weekend, you know, so it didn't get cleared up until Tuesday.
[02:37.080 --> 02:42.940]  But I just thought it was an amusing kind of recording to get that your number has been disconnected.
[02:43.580 --> 02:46.140]  If it was disconnected, how could you be making a call in the first place?
[02:46.820 --> 02:51.880]  I went through a similar thing today with a credit card where I just basically had to call them and they said, Oh, we made a mistake.
[02:52.020 --> 02:53.680]  We didn't send your new card out in time.
[02:53.880 --> 02:54.100]  Sorry.
[02:54.320 --> 02:55.020]  We'll fix that.
[02:55.960 --> 02:56.320]  Yeah.
[02:56.480 --> 02:57.580]  Well, it's good when they fix things.
[02:58.180 --> 02:59.060]  Bad when they don't.
[03:00.640 --> 03:02.740]  But everything's worked out nicely now.
[03:02.980 --> 03:05.680]  Everything's back to as normal as it can possibly get.
[03:05.680 --> 03:07.200]  But still, it's kind of annoying.
[03:08.280 --> 03:10.640]  Well, greetings to everybody.
[03:10.640 --> 03:13.560]  This is Off the Hook, a special fundraising edition tonight.
[03:13.760 --> 03:17.180]  This is, in all likelihood, our only appearance during this fundraiser.
[03:17.280 --> 03:24.080]  So if you aim to support the show, this is the chance for you to do that.
[03:24.200 --> 03:30.100]  And hopefully you will do that because supporting the show is how we stay on, is how the radio station stays on.
[03:31.360 --> 03:33.780]  This radio station would not exist without your support.
[03:33.780 --> 03:35.460]  So please keep all that in mind.
[03:35.900 --> 03:39.180]  And doesn't it happen that if it really goes well tonight, we will be on again?
[03:39.840 --> 03:40.480]  I can't.
[03:40.500 --> 03:40.920]  I can't.
[03:41.040 --> 03:41.120]  Sorry.
[03:41.220 --> 03:41.880]  No, we can't promise.
[03:42.320 --> 03:43.500]  I don't even know where that's coming from.
[03:43.660 --> 03:45.020]  Oh, I left the wrong thing up.
[03:45.220 --> 03:45.900]  No, we don't know.
[03:46.060 --> 03:46.180]  We do.
[03:46.300 --> 03:46.480]  Okay.
[03:46.520 --> 03:47.520]  That's completely unofficial.
[03:48.480 --> 03:50.300]  In all likelihood, we won't be on again until November.
[03:50.300 --> 03:54.320]  So, yeah.
[03:55.300 --> 03:56.380]  I'm going to think positive.
[03:56.660 --> 04:04.100]  Well, think positive, but don't delay your calls and think that we're going to be on in a couple of weeks because in all likelihood we won't be and this is your only chance to support us.
[04:04.100 --> 04:06.680]  212-209-2900 is the...
[04:07.760 --> 04:08.560]  That's not the right number.
[04:08.560 --> 04:09.420]  That's not the right number, is it?
[04:09.680 --> 04:12.000]  Well, if someone want to correct me and give me the right number, go ahead, Jim.
[04:14.500 --> 04:18.900]  212-209-2950 is the pledge line at WBAI New York.
[04:18.900 --> 04:19.780]  All right, add 50.
[04:19.940 --> 04:20.660]  All right, I have to remember that.
[04:21.400 --> 04:21.760]  2950.
[04:22.100 --> 04:23.660]  212-209-2950.
[04:24.280 --> 04:30.900]  We have a bunch of very interesting things to help people along.
[04:31.040 --> 04:33.740]  And we're going to be getting to that in just a moment or two.
[04:34.160 --> 04:35.980]  First, a couple of exciting updates.
[04:37.620 --> 04:38.720]  Who wants to volunteer?
[04:39.740 --> 04:40.680]  Do you want to volunteer, Jim?
[04:40.740 --> 04:40.900]  Okay.
[04:41.040 --> 04:41.300]  Sure.
[04:41.600 --> 04:42.620]  Hold out your hand.
[04:43.760 --> 04:44.660]  Does he get them all?
[04:45.080 --> 04:46.100]  No, he doesn't get them all.
[04:46.420 --> 04:46.940]  Can I have some?
[04:47.100 --> 04:48.060]  No, you can't.
[04:48.740 --> 04:49.340]  He volunteered.
[04:49.880 --> 04:50.320]  Hang on.
[04:50.740 --> 04:51.380]  I'm going to roll this up.
[04:53.140 --> 04:53.540]  All right.
[04:53.780 --> 04:54.260]  Hold out your hand.
[04:55.880 --> 04:56.480]  Did that hurt?
[04:56.900 --> 04:57.800]  No, I didn't do better than that.
[04:57.800 --> 05:00.040]  I had to take you really hard with a whole bunch of phone numbers.
[05:00.460 --> 05:04.220]  I can't really give them to you, but I can show them to you from a distance.
[05:04.740 --> 05:05.420]  You see these?
[05:05.560 --> 05:06.640]  Why can't you give them to me?
[05:06.760 --> 05:10.360]  Because I'm afraid that by giving them to you, I might be violating a law.
[05:10.820 --> 05:13.360]  But let me just tell you what I did a couple of days ago.
[05:13.660 --> 05:14.340]  We're on radio.
[05:15.180 --> 05:16.340]  Yeah, that's why I'm going to tell you what I did.
[05:16.340 --> 05:17.340]  I can't show you what I did.
[05:18.120 --> 05:19.460]  There's a lot of phone numbers, though.
[05:19.680 --> 05:20.640]  It's a lot of phone numbers.
[05:20.820 --> 05:21.820]  How do we know they're phone numbers?
[05:22.000 --> 05:23.120]  Because they are phone numbers.
[05:23.220 --> 05:24.500]  You're going to have to trust me on this one.
[05:25.440 --> 05:27.300]  I went to the Do Not Call registry.
[05:28.300 --> 05:31.660]  I went to the telemarketing.donotcall.gov site.
[05:31.740 --> 05:35.540]  In fact, let me read you a piece of email that sort of spurred me into doing this.
[05:35.540 --> 05:45.620]  All right, this person wrote in to us at OTH at 2600.com saying, I don't know if it was mentioned on your show, but the Do Not Call list costs money to obtain.
[05:46.260 --> 05:52.440]  So if you were to hypothetically start a telemarketing firm to obtain the full list, it would cost you about 7,000 U.S.
[05:52.580 --> 05:52.780]  dollars.
[05:53.480 --> 05:55.260]  And the list only contains phone numbers.
[05:55.400 --> 06:00.820]  Well, the only fact in this letter is the last one, that the list only contains phone numbers.
[06:02.400 --> 06:04.080]  Everything else is not correct.
[06:04.320 --> 06:14.900]  And I could see why somebody would make that mistake, because I went over to the site, and yes, it does cost $7,000 to get a list of all the phone numbers in the United States and to have that list maintained for a year.
[06:16.900 --> 06:23.280]  But if you don't get all of the numbers in the whole United States, it doesn't cost as much.
[06:23.460 --> 06:29.900]  In fact, if you get five area codes or less, it doesn't cost anything.
[06:30.900 --> 06:31.620]  It's free.
[06:32.060 --> 06:32.620]  It's completely free.
[06:32.820 --> 06:41.680]  Now, it's a little bit deceptive, because they say that you can get one area code or two area codes, but then apparently you can only subscribe by state.
[06:42.140 --> 06:47.860]  And I wanted to get New York State, but New York has a lot of area codes, and we've had to have paid some money to do that.
[06:48.320 --> 06:52.360]  Unless there's another way to do this and get it by area code, I couldn't think of a single way to do that.
[06:52.360 --> 07:01.860]  So I was asking myself, okay, what state only has one area code that I could really get something from, make it interesting?
[07:01.920 --> 07:07.960]  And I was one keystroke away from selecting Hawaii as the place I wanted to get my phone numbers.
[07:08.080 --> 07:15.320]  But then I remembered Washington, D.C., which technically isn't the state, but it's the only area code in that non-state status that they have there.
[07:16.300 --> 07:17.380]  The district is the word.
[07:17.380 --> 07:18.040]  The district, yes.
[07:18.320 --> 07:19.640]  And you can also get Puerto Rico.
[07:19.880 --> 07:21.140]  You can even get toll-free numbers.
[07:21.420 --> 07:24.800]  I don't know why a toll-free number would be registered, but they have that.
[07:25.860 --> 07:38.200]  As verification, all I had to do was put in a company name, which is 2,600 Enterprises, and, you know, basically say that we're not going to use these numbers.
[07:38.200 --> 07:39.580]  We're not going to call these numbers.
[07:39.760 --> 07:41.380]  We're not going to share these numbers with other people.
[07:42.720 --> 07:43.300]  That's it.
[07:44.220 --> 07:45.480]  It's said to wait for approval.
[07:45.480 --> 07:51.680]  I was approved in less than a minute at 4 o'clock in the morning on Sunday night on a holiday weekend.
[07:51.860 --> 07:53.420]  There was no verification whatsoever.
[07:53.620 --> 07:54.600]  Anybody can get these numbers.
[07:54.680 --> 07:55.380]  So what I have now...
[07:55.380 --> 07:55.620]  Wait, wait, wait.
[07:55.780 --> 07:56.540]  You're confused.
[07:56.640 --> 07:58.580]  That's the only time that the FCC is around.
[07:59.920 --> 08:01.080]  Well, I have...
[08:01.080 --> 08:06.780]  If I can read my writing, I had to shrink this down because it was initially something like 3,000 pages in length if I printed all the numbers.
[08:06.840 --> 08:09.320]  So I shrunk it down to four-point type.
[08:10.160 --> 08:11.680]  I got rid of all the carriage returns.
[08:11.680 --> 08:12.920]  I got rid of the area code.
[08:14.700 --> 08:21.400]  And there is something like 145,699 numbers on this list here that I just hit Jeff with.
[08:22.240 --> 08:23.120]  Didn't hurt you too bad, did it?
[08:23.140 --> 08:23.680]  No, no, no.
[08:23.960 --> 08:24.400]  I'm going to be okay.
[08:24.400 --> 08:27.600]  Be glad I shrunk them down because if I hit you with the other one, it would have been like a telephone book.
[08:28.940 --> 08:29.980]  Yeah, that's a lot.
[08:30.220 --> 08:31.700]  You know, for one area code, I guess.
[08:31.880 --> 08:32.980]  I don't know if that's normal.
[08:33.920 --> 08:35.000]  But think of it.
[08:35.280 --> 08:44.400]  You submit your phone number to these people because you want to remain private, and anybody can get your phone number now, you know, as somebody that wants to value their privacy.
[08:44.400 --> 08:44.980]  It's that easy.
[08:45.100 --> 08:46.640]  I didn't have to verify anything.
[08:47.020 --> 08:48.940]  There's no names attached to that.
[08:49.060 --> 08:54.200]  There's no names, but we know that all these people value their privacy, or has somebody do it for them, which we also demonstrated.
[08:54.980 --> 08:55.460]  Yeah, thanks.
[08:55.680 --> 09:01.100]  I mean, imagine plugging all these numbers into some sort of war dialer and just, you know, annoying them over and over again.
[09:01.100 --> 09:03.060]  And, you know, it's so easy to do.
[09:03.120 --> 09:07.000]  And you know that these people are going to be especially upset by that because they don't want to be called.
[09:07.180 --> 09:09.620]  These are people who don't want to be called, and I have a list of their phone numbers.
[09:09.700 --> 09:10.660]  I mean, that's ironic.
[09:11.400 --> 09:18.800]  So there needs to be some kind of a little better method to make sure only the right people get a hold of these things.
[09:18.880 --> 09:22.500]  And, you know, I don't think telemarketers are really the right people to be giving these numbers to in the first place.
[09:22.660 --> 09:25.340]  There is another flavor of telemarketing now, I noticed.
[09:25.340 --> 09:32.800]  I was on the phone with a credit card company, and before I got off, they asked me if I wanted a free copy of my credit report.
[09:33.000 --> 09:37.520]  And I had to ask them, if I do this, do I have to cancel something yet?
[09:37.560 --> 09:38.320]  And she said yes.
[09:38.420 --> 09:39.720]  And I said, well, shame on you.
[09:39.860 --> 09:40.840]  This is telemarketing.
[09:40.940 --> 09:41.780]  And I called you.
[09:42.500 --> 09:43.820]  You had to cancel...
[09:43.820 --> 09:49.060]  They were going to send me a free credit report and a lot of other information to subscribe to it.
[09:49.240 --> 09:57.380]  And if I didn't unsubscribe, I was going to be charged on my credit card and be part of this system that I really wasn't interested in.
[09:57.460 --> 09:59.660]  I think it's illegal for them not to tell you about that kind of a thing.
[10:00.020 --> 10:00.680]  I really do.
[10:00.820 --> 10:01.540]  Well, I had to ask.
[10:01.720 --> 10:03.220]  She was not volunteering that information.
[10:03.420 --> 10:05.820]  Well, you could have reported her and got her into a lot of trouble.
[10:05.900 --> 10:09.300]  Anyway, more information on National Do Not Call Registry.
[10:10.100 --> 10:17.300]  Go to www.donotcall.gov if you want to be a telemarketer and get a list of numbers.
[10:18.120 --> 10:23.180]  Keep in mind, we are certainly not advocating people get these numbers and misuse them.
[10:23.380 --> 10:25.640]  We're simply showing you how easy it is to do this.
[10:26.060 --> 10:27.940]  Telemarketing.donotcall.gov.
[10:29.160 --> 10:33.840]  If you get less than five area codes, you won't be charged anything.
[10:33.840 --> 10:40.200]  If you want to get everything in New York State, I think it's $25 per area code over five.
[10:41.820 --> 10:46.700]  You're asked for your organization name, your address, your city, your state, your country, your zip code.
[10:47.520 --> 10:51.200]  Okay, an employer identification number or a social security number.
[10:51.600 --> 10:55.500]  Now, I don't think... I supplied the employer identification number because we have one.
[10:55.760 --> 10:57.160]  I don't think this was checked.
[10:57.160 --> 11:04.920]  I don't think there's a master database on this website that this thing connects to that says, Oh, yes, that's 2600 Magazine.
[11:04.980 --> 11:06.820]  That's the right employer identification number.
[11:06.920 --> 11:09.720]  Therefore, we're going to grant access because they might have a legitimate reason to call people.
[11:10.300 --> 11:12.940]  I think if you put any number in there, I could be wrong.
[11:13.040 --> 11:14.280]  I'm not saying people should do this.
[11:14.360 --> 11:15.900]  I'm saying this is what it looks like to me.
[11:17.000 --> 11:18.560]  Any number seems to work.
[11:18.560 --> 11:25.340]  And they also ask for your phone number and an email address to send you a verification.
[11:25.760 --> 11:28.680]  And the email address, this is funny, the email address did come through.
[11:29.320 --> 11:33.260]  This was at 944 in the morning UTC.
[11:33.300 --> 11:35.160]  So figure out what time that was here.
[11:35.720 --> 11:41.360]  This email is being sent to you because you created or updated your profile and to verify whether your email address is correct.
[11:41.360 --> 11:45.220]  You must click on the link below to confirm that you received this message.
[11:45.580 --> 11:47.500]  I never clicked on the link below.
[11:47.500 --> 11:49.320]  So I never clicked on it.
[11:49.400 --> 11:51.200]  And my password worked immediately.
[11:52.180 --> 11:53.800]  They give you a couple of passwords.
[11:53.800 --> 11:56.320]  They give you this really long ID number.
[11:56.480 --> 11:57.400]  It looks really secure.
[11:57.640 --> 11:58.860]  At first glance, it looks really secure.
[11:59.020 --> 12:02.180]  But inside of five minutes, I was downloading phone numbers.
[12:03.960 --> 12:07.120]  And boy, you know, and I've got a lot of secret numbers, I'll bet, from Washington, D.C.
[12:07.200 --> 12:08.800]  You know, some of those agencies that...
[12:08.800 --> 12:10.520]  Oh, and yes, you can put business numbers on there.
[12:11.220 --> 12:14.820]  I won't say what I saw, but I saw things that were definitely not residential numbers.
[12:15.340 --> 12:17.200]  Yes, Leo, you have something to contribute.
[12:17.200 --> 12:20.120]  Because charities, they don't have to follow the Do Not Call List.
[12:20.220 --> 12:20.900]  That's what I've heard.
[12:21.100 --> 12:21.460]  Yeah, that's true.
[12:21.620 --> 12:27.340]  So a charity can just go there, get all the phone numbers from five area codes, and start calling people.
[12:27.780 --> 12:28.000]  Well...
[12:28.000 --> 12:29.300]  And it will be perfectly legal.
[12:29.400 --> 12:31.400]  They can call them even without knowing those numbers are there.
[12:31.400 --> 12:32.940]  Yeah, they can just call any number they want.
[12:33.160 --> 12:47.180]  Yeah, but now they know...
[12:48.320 --> 12:54.060]  Couldn't we give the people that are chomping at the bit an idea of what the premiums are tonight?
[12:54.100 --> 12:57.520]  Let's go into that a little bit, because we're going to be playing some excerpts tonight.
[12:57.680 --> 12:58.480]  We're on for two hours.
[12:58.620 --> 12:59.540]  We're on until nine o'clock.
[13:00.500 --> 13:02.860]  And we have a couple of different premium levels.
[13:02.960 --> 13:07.840]  We're just going to get right into it right away, and we're not going to reveal things later on.
[13:07.900 --> 13:09.160]  We're going to reveal it all at once.
[13:09.800 --> 13:10.240]  All right?
[13:10.240 --> 13:12.380]  First of all, every pledge is welcome.
[13:12.600 --> 13:13.540]  Every pledge is welcome.
[13:14.080 --> 13:22.220]  Pledges for $50 and above will get you a free off-the-hook t-shirt, which I'm wearing right now, in fact.
[13:22.520 --> 13:23.200]  Doesn't that look nice?
[13:23.360 --> 13:24.120]  I love it.
[13:24.200 --> 13:25.460]  Yeah, it's a good shirt.
[13:25.660 --> 13:26.440]  It lasts.
[13:27.720 --> 13:32.520]  It draws attention that you listen to off-the-hook, and it even gives the time and the station.
[13:33.940 --> 13:38.900]  Red lettering on black background, and that's yours for any pledge above $50.
[13:38.900 --> 13:47.920]  Now, for pledges of $75, you'll get, in addition to that, a copy of the film Freedom Downtime, the documentary about Kevin Mitnick and the hacker scene.
[13:47.920 --> 13:52.280]  If you haven't seen it by now, you really need to catch up to find out what's been going on.
[13:53.740 --> 13:58.720]  That's a two-hour and change documentary that we produced back in 2001.
[13:59.280 --> 14:03.020]  That's for a pledge of $75, and we'll even throw in a $2,600 hat.
[14:03.320 --> 14:05.480]  That's right, a hat that says $2,600 on it.
[14:05.480 --> 14:09.640]  So you'll be getting quite a lot of nice stuff for a $75 pledge there.
[14:09.740 --> 14:11.580]  It's 212-209-2950.
[14:12.020 --> 14:19.680]  Now, for the 125 level, we have what is known as the H2K2 VCD package.
[14:20.560 --> 14:21.100]  Yeah.
[14:21.280 --> 14:23.020]  Now, if that sounds like Greek, it's not.
[14:23.200 --> 14:28.000]  It's basically VCDs are...
[14:28.000 --> 14:29.300]  Who wants to explain VCDs?
[14:29.380 --> 14:30.400]  Does anybody want to...
[14:30.400 --> 14:31.220]  You want to do it, Leo?
[14:31.300 --> 14:31.520]  Go ahead.
[14:31.620 --> 14:32.240]  Give it a shot.
[14:32.760 --> 14:35.600]  VCDs are basically CDs with a video file on them.
[14:35.660 --> 14:37.720]  A huge video file and a specific...
[14:38.560 --> 14:40.320]  Like another file that...
[14:40.320 --> 14:40.800]  So DVDs...
[14:40.800 --> 14:41.280]  Computer file.
[14:41.360 --> 14:43.380]  Not the annoying people that watch video all the time.
[14:43.500 --> 14:43.660]  Yeah.
[14:43.840 --> 14:44.820]  Those are video files, too.
[14:45.040 --> 14:47.040]  And basically, you can put it into a DVD player.
[14:47.100 --> 14:47.940]  Most of them play it.
[14:48.060 --> 14:49.800]  I think Playstations 2 play it.
[14:50.060 --> 14:51.200]  And that's...
[14:51.200 --> 14:52.720]  It's like a DVD, but cheaper.
[14:52.720 --> 14:56.660]  If you have a DVD player, a VCD will work in it.
[14:57.040 --> 15:00.360]  A VCD will also work on your CD-ROM in your computer.
[15:00.580 --> 15:03.320]  It will not work on your CD player because there's video on it.
[15:03.400 --> 15:06.160]  And there's just no way we can figure out how to put video over your CD player.
[15:06.300 --> 15:07.140]  Can they get the audio?
[15:07.420 --> 15:08.900]  I don't think it works on...
[15:08.900 --> 15:09.400]  No, it doesn't.
[15:09.520 --> 15:09.760]  On CD player.
[15:09.760 --> 15:10.020]  Okay.
[15:10.020 --> 15:11.680]  Because the video confuses it.
[15:12.460 --> 15:14.060]  But it's a good deal.
[15:14.120 --> 15:16.740]  For 125, you will get eight of these.
[15:17.160 --> 15:17.680]  That's right.
[15:17.800 --> 15:19.980]  Eight separate ones from the H2K2 conference.
[15:19.980 --> 15:24.240]  Now, we've been working on the H2K2 videos now for over a year.
[15:24.680 --> 15:28.980]  There are 65 hours worth of material there.
[15:30.140 --> 15:32.400]  And, you know, it's no small task.
[15:32.500 --> 15:36.820]  We've had a number of people, you know, working on it throughout the better course of the last year.
[15:37.540 --> 15:46.960]  And looking at some of this material, we had so much diversity, so much interesting discussion, panel discussions, topical things, and just very interesting people.
[15:46.960 --> 15:54.900]  What we've put together tonight is, I guess, more of the kind of social talks that we had.
[15:55.440 --> 15:59.040]  We have talks from Mark Hosler from Negative Land.
[15:59.160 --> 16:05.420]  We have talks from Jello Biafra, Aaron Magruda, who writes the cartoon strip Boondocks.
[16:06.700 --> 16:10.100]  And we also have a couple of others that we're going to throw in as well.
[16:10.640 --> 16:15.000]  The number to call is 212-209-2950 to get that package.
[16:15.400 --> 16:18.180]  In addition, you'll also get the Off the Hook t-shirt.
[16:19.240 --> 16:21.440]  Do we have a limited number of those packages?
[16:21.640 --> 16:22.100]  Are they...
[16:22.600 --> 16:24.280]  Well, the limited number is tonight.
[16:24.800 --> 16:26.640]  It's only available tonight for the next two hours.
[16:26.780 --> 16:28.000]  Now, what I'd like to do now...
[16:28.000 --> 16:30.400]  You know, we always get these emails like...
[16:30.400 --> 16:30.840]  I know.
[16:31.040 --> 16:32.000]  They're so sad.
[16:32.140 --> 16:32.720]  And it's sad.
[16:32.720 --> 16:34.660]  People want to contribute afterwards.
[16:34.980 --> 16:36.100]  They hear the show later.
[16:36.580 --> 16:38.920]  And, you know, we tell them, you know, you can call the radio station and contribute.
[16:39.100 --> 16:40.720]  But these premiums aren't going to be available then.
[16:40.720 --> 16:42.960]  They're only available during this two-hour period.
[16:43.180 --> 16:52.640]  So, you know, if you're in Dar es Salaam or something like that, and you're listening now and it's four in the morning, you know, make that call anyway because it just won't be available when it's a more convenient time for you.
[16:52.780 --> 16:55.620]  So, no matter where you are in the world, now is the time to call.
[16:55.740 --> 16:57.740]  212-209-2950.
[16:58.140 --> 17:01.380]  What I'd like to do is play an excerpt from the Negative Land talk.
[17:01.380 --> 17:10.640]  Mark Hosler from Negative Land appeared at our conference and was, to his surprise, not to mine, but to his surprise, he had a tremendous reception.
[17:11.100 --> 17:12.620]  People were very interested in what he had to say.
[17:12.680 --> 17:17.500]  He didn't think he could talk to a bunch of hackers and get them to take an interest in what he did.
[17:17.680 --> 17:25.180]  And the thing is, what Negative Land, if you're not familiar with Negative Land, they're a band out of the Bay Area, an experimental band, I guess, is the way to describe them.
[17:26.940 --> 17:28.720]  And what they do is a sense of hacking.
[17:29.080 --> 17:30.340]  It's really a form of that.
[17:30.760 --> 17:34.040]  They hack the media in a way that I've never seen anybody do it.
[17:34.200 --> 17:38.920]  He's going to tell one of the stories, one of the stories concerning how they hack the media.
[17:39.820 --> 17:41.880]  And I think it gives a lot of people ideas.
[17:42.440 --> 17:44.120]  It certainly inspires a lot of people.
[17:44.240 --> 17:47.280]  And that's the reason I knew that this guy would work at the conference.
[17:47.280 --> 17:52.360]  I knew that people would be turned on by what he had to say, and he'd also be inspired by what hackers are doing,
[17:56.680 --> 18:03.760]  and we're also going to play a piece that, I guess, sort of inspired this whole thing.
[18:04.780 --> 18:06.920]  It's called Christianity is Stupid.
[18:07.760 --> 18:09.160]  Some of you may have heard this piece.
[18:09.240 --> 18:10.640]  Some of you may have seen me wearing a T-shirt.
[18:11.820 --> 18:12.720]  It's an interesting...
[18:12.720 --> 18:16.040]  I'm going to play a little bit of it over here, if this machine will cooperate.
[18:18.780 --> 18:22.080]  He's going to tell the story as to how this song came about.
[18:23.240 --> 18:33.440]  And then he's going to tell the sequel story as to how this particular piece inspired an entire album and fooled a lot of people.
[18:34.320 --> 18:36.220]  212-209-2950.
[18:36.800 --> 18:37.480]  I'll show your support.
[18:38.660 --> 18:41.220]  The loudspeaker spoke up and said...
[18:43.650 --> 18:47.330]  The loudspeaker spoke up and said...
[18:48.490 --> 18:51.550]  The loudspeaker spoke up and said...
[18:55.980 --> 18:58.900]  The loudspeaker spoke up and said...
[18:58.900 --> 19:01.620]  Christianity is stupid.
[19:02.500 --> 19:04.420]  Christianity is stupid.
[19:05.520 --> 19:07.200]  Christianity is stupid.
[19:08.420 --> 19:17.170]  Christianity is stupid.
[19:24.470 --> 19:31.630]  I've been saying, we don't go out... we're always collecting material, But we get inspired.
[19:31.810 --> 19:32.650]  By what we find.
[19:33.150 --> 19:38.430]  You know, we don't decide, hey, let's make a whole album all about Microsoft, you know, or something.
[19:38.570 --> 19:40.790]  We really get inspired by the material we find.
[19:41.050 --> 19:52.410]  One of the tracks that we made, which has sort of become one of our more well-known and notorious tracks, was inspired by finding a recording called, If Footmen Tire You, What Will Horses Do?
[19:52.590 --> 19:54.670]  And this is the Reverend Estes W.
[19:54.790 --> 19:57.250]  Perkle from Louisiana, recorded in 1971.
[19:58.010 --> 20:14.770]  He was talking about the communists who were going to take over in the next six months or so, and they were going to put everyone into special camps and brainwash us all by playing over a loudspeaker 17 hours a day the phrase, Christianity is stupid, communism is good,
[20:14.810 --> 20:16.470]  give up.
[20:18.110 --> 20:19.290]  So we loved that.
[20:19.390 --> 20:22.230]  We thought that was great, especially because it was a Christian saying it.
[20:22.350 --> 20:23.630]  It was just so irresistible.
[20:23.630 --> 20:30.110]  So we decided we had to do some sort of, I don't know why, just evoked in this sense of doing some heavy rock thing.
[20:30.390 --> 20:38.630]  So I'm going to play just a little bit of it, not the whole track, just for those of you who haven't heard it, because it led to some other very interesting things that I'll talk about next.
[20:47.480 --> 20:49.940]  And you're listening to radio station WBAI in New York.
[20:50.060 --> 20:50.860]  The program is off the hook.
[20:51.360 --> 20:56.740]  We're listening to a talk by Mark Hosler given at H2K2, the Hacker Conference last year.
[20:56.880 --> 20:57.680]  It took place in New York City.
[20:57.680 --> 21:07.940]  We're offering video, video CDs, which will play on your computer or your DVD player of this talk and quite a few others for a pledge of 125.
[21:07.940 --> 21:15.460]  We're going to be playing excerpts throughout the night of Mark Hosler from Negative Land, Jello Biafra, Aaron Magruder, and others.
[21:16.460 --> 21:22.580]  212-209-2950 is the phone number to call to pledge your support.
[21:51.160 --> 21:54.280]  The loudspeakers joking up and say...
[22:59.960 --> 23:01.480]  So, you kind of get the idea.
[23:02.540 --> 23:10.500]  And one thing I always liked about... that I liked about that piece is that we never explain why it's stupid.
[23:11.060 --> 23:13.220]  It's just stupid, I mean.
[23:14.720 --> 23:20.220]  And the other thing that's nice about it is that people sometimes say, well, do you really think Christianity is stupid and communism is good?
[23:20.500 --> 23:25.400]  And I don't really feel the need to answer that question because we weren't saying it.
[23:25.680 --> 23:26.780]  You know, somebody else said it.
[23:26.980 --> 23:28.200]  We just used it.
[23:28.400 --> 23:29.180]  We selected that.
[23:29.180 --> 23:29.180]  Yeah.
[23:30.000 --> 23:33.980]  So, anyway, some of you are going to know the story I'm going to tell here.
[23:34.200 --> 23:35.160]  Probably most of you won't.
[23:35.320 --> 23:40.200]  But Negative Land, the record that this was on, did very well on college radio.
[23:40.200 --> 23:42.220]  And we had played live just occasionally.
[23:42.220 --> 23:48.380]  We always do these very involved conceptual shows involving costumes and props and films and ridiculous stuff.
[23:48.980 --> 23:52.740]  We're from the Bay Area, and we played live usually about once a year.
[23:52.940 --> 23:56.240]  But we thought since it was doing so well on college radio, maybe we could tour.
[23:56.820 --> 24:02.200]  Well, it turned out the tour was going to lose money, and we all were going to quit our jobs to go out on tour.
[24:02.340 --> 24:05.620]  And none of us could afford to quit our jobs to go out on tour.
[24:06.560 --> 24:14.460]  And as I mentioned, we were more and more interested in how the media worked and the source of this stuff that we were borrowing and we were using.
[24:14.680 --> 24:17.340]  And so we finally decided to do something a little different.
[24:17.500 --> 24:24.080]  We actually decided to, like, directly throw something into the media meat grinder, see what would happen.
[24:24.080 --> 24:39.460]  So we ended up, one member of our group, who has a pretty strange sense of humor, read an article about a boy in Rochester, Minnesota, who had chopped up his mother, brother, sister, and father with an axe in the middle of the night.
[24:40.100 --> 24:42.820]  Supposedly some sort of argument or something to do with music.
[24:43.020 --> 24:44.520]  They were a devout Catholic family.
[24:44.520 --> 25:02.260]  So, in sort of a fit of black humor, Richard wrote this press release up blaming the cancellation of our tour on this quadruple axe murder and saying that Negative Land was being investigated by federal authorities because of their song, Christianity is Stupid,
[25:02.540 --> 25:04.760]  which somehow precipitated the murders.
[25:04.980 --> 25:07.720]  Maybe there was backwards masking, something.
[25:08.100 --> 25:13.480]  And at this time, you know, there was a lot of stuff in the news about music causing people to kill people.
[25:13.480 --> 25:15.620]  Anyway, Richard came up with this idea.
[25:15.620 --> 25:23.120]  We all looked at it and we decided it was kind of a strange idea, but it was a lot more interesting than the truth.
[25:29.160 --> 25:33.200]  So we decided to put it out as a press release.
[25:35.980 --> 25:38.200]  And some very interesting things happened.
[25:40.580 --> 25:42.640]  And we learned a lot of stuff.
[25:43.020 --> 25:49.780]  Stuff I already knew kind of in an abstract way, you know, but nothing I'd ever experienced.
[25:50.060 --> 25:53.120]  And the...
[25:53.120 --> 25:55.120]  I don't think I have much to tell you here.
[25:58.450 --> 26:03.790]  We put out this press release and some zines wrote about it.
[26:03.790 --> 26:10.450]  And then a statewide music magazine read those and called us up and they did an article about it.
[26:12.190 --> 26:19.630]  And we decided at that point that we didn't want to sort of stimulate the story anymore.
[26:19.650 --> 26:21.250]  We just wanted to let it take its course.
[26:21.470 --> 26:29.150]  But what we were finding was that once it got reported, it kind of got into the media food chain, that it started to take on a life and a truth of its own.
[26:29.150 --> 26:34.090]  So, I was working at the time as an assistant nursery school teacher.
[26:34.530 --> 26:40.090]  And I got a phone call from the CBS News affiliate in San Francisco, KPIX.
[26:40.410 --> 26:44.890]  And they wanted to do a story on this.
[26:46.750 --> 26:48.010]  And I was...
[26:48.010 --> 26:50.510]  One, I've never found out how they figured out where I worked.
[26:50.590 --> 26:51.410]  That was kind of scary.
[26:51.690 --> 26:55.490]  But we all gathered together at our recording studio.
[26:55.550 --> 26:58.330]  And they came by and they did a news piece on it.
[26:58.330 --> 26:59.910]  And I'm going to show you that news piece.
[27:00.170 --> 27:01.750]  And this is exactly what...
[27:01.750 --> 27:02.950]  This is the news as it ran.
[27:03.090 --> 27:06.270]  And just keep in mind, this was a slow news day.
[27:06.270 --> 27:11.010]  So, they decided to run this as the lead story at the top of the hour.
[27:12.210 --> 27:14.470]  So, I'll talk more about it after you see this.
[27:41.980 --> 27:42.700]  Good evening.
[27:42.940 --> 27:45.840]  Topping Nightcast, a possible link between murder and music.
[27:46.040 --> 27:48.900]  Music performed by a rock group right here in the Bay Area.
[27:48.900 --> 27:52.080]  Four members of a Midwestern family were murdered.
[27:52.600 --> 27:54.420]  The 16-year-old son is the prime suspect.
[27:54.620 --> 27:58.960]  Members of the experimental rock group Negative Land have been drawn into the case.
[27:59.120 --> 28:02.580]  And prosecutors won't even tell them for certain that their music...
[28:02.580 --> 28:04.060]  How their music might be involved.
[28:04.260 --> 28:05.740]  Hal Eisner has our report.
[28:07.180 --> 28:11.240]  It was the kind of murder case that friends and neighbors said didn't make sense.
[28:11.240 --> 28:18.340]  They didn't understand how an A student from a good family could murder his brother, sister, and parents with an axe.
[28:18.680 --> 28:21.500]  He was not a homicidal maniac.
[28:22.320 --> 28:27.800]  He did not show any signs of wanting to hurt anyone.
[28:28.120 --> 28:31.040]  David Brom was accused in the multiple axe slayings.
[28:31.140 --> 28:34.360]  But now, almost three months later, many are still wondering why.
[28:34.700 --> 28:38.760]  One explanation may involve a Bay Area music group called Negative Land.
[28:45.690 --> 28:50.850]  Negative Land's music is highly critical of the mass media, nuclear war, and handguns.
[28:50.990 --> 28:56.630]  The group thinks their music is humorous, but they don't find it a bit funny that one of their songs poking fun at religion...
[28:56.630 --> 29:00.290]  ...may have sparked a dispute among the Brahms, triggering the murders.
[29:00.690 --> 29:04.950]  They say federal authorities asked them to cancel a long-planned 17-city tour...
[29:04.950 --> 29:08.250]  ...and eliminate live performances until the conclusion of the investigation.
[29:08.650 --> 29:12.630]  The probe apparently involved their song, Christianity is Stupid.
[29:20.420 --> 29:23.240]  It's hard to listen to the cut and not laugh.
[29:23.540 --> 29:30.260]  If you have any sense of humor at all, or whatever, it's hard not to see the humor...
[29:30.260 --> 29:34.700]  ...and that it would result in anything as serious as this, I think it's ridiculous.
[29:35.160 --> 29:39.060]  This isn't the first time controversial music has been linked to tragedy.
[29:42.690 --> 29:47.370]  Charles Manson said his murder spree was influenced by the Beatles' Helder Skelter.
[29:47.670 --> 29:53.890]  It's believed Night Stalker suspect Richard Ramirez was influenced by ACDC's Highway to Hell album.
[29:54.210 --> 29:59.830]  And Ozzy Osbourne's song, Suicide Solution, became the focal point of an actual suicide case...
[29:59.830 --> 30:02.030]  ...involving a Southern California teenager.
[30:02.030 --> 30:07.390]  What you can say is that music is a bystander involved to a certain degree...
[30:07.390 --> 30:09.690]  ...but most unlikely that it generated the mayhem.
[30:10.370 --> 30:12.570]  If it did, there'd be a lot more mayhem around.
[30:13.130 --> 30:18.110]  Meanwhile, the members of Negative Land are hoping for a speedy conclusion to the Brom case in Minnesota...
[30:18.110 --> 30:20.550]  ...and eventually a return to their live performances...
[30:21.110 --> 30:26.050]  ...and a career that after nine years had finally taken some positive turns.
[30:26.450 --> 30:29.450]  But a quick end to the bizarre murder case may be in doubt.
[30:29.690 --> 30:33.710]  A Minnesota judge has ruled that David Brom will face trial as a juvenile.
[30:34.030 --> 30:36.750]  The prosecutor wants Brom tried as an adult.
[30:36.910 --> 30:37.910]  And he's appealing.
[30:38.210 --> 30:41.190]  I'm Hal Eisner, Channel 5 Eyewitness News.
[30:41.190 --> 30:43.730]  It'll be several months before the court decides...
[30:44.330 --> 30:45.350]  You're listening to Off the Hook.
[30:45.470 --> 30:48.370]  There's a slight audio, uh, audiovisual snafu here.
[30:49.030 --> 30:53.010]  But we're listening to a tape from H2K2, a video CD actually.
[30:53.590 --> 30:56.870]  And, uh, we'll be giving you more details in just a moment.
[30:56.970 --> 31:00.390]  212-209-2950 is the number to call to pledge your support.
[31:00.590 --> 31:03.450]  I'm Hal Eisner, Channel 5 Eyewitness News.
[31:03.690 --> 31:08.890]  It'll be several months before the court decides whether to try David Brom as a juvenile or an adult.
[31:08.890 --> 31:12.490]  The date for his murder trial can't be set until that decision is made.
[31:12.710 --> 31:16.910]  That means it's also not clear how long the band will be restricted from performing.
[31:24.950 --> 31:28.750]  Anyway, I guess something I want to emphasize is we did all this as an experiment, right?
[31:28.750 --> 31:30.990]  We had no idea that this would happen.
[31:31.190 --> 31:33.850]  It just was an... it was an... it was more interesting than the truth.
[31:34.170 --> 31:38.710]  And so we were really learning an amazing amount of stuff as this was going along.
[31:39.170 --> 31:48.950]  Um, one thing that I really enjoyed is that every time anyone wrote about the story, there was no space to really get into anything about the song itself and what that was about.
[31:49.350 --> 31:52.290]  There didn't have enough room, but they always had to mention the song.
[31:52.430 --> 31:58.550]  So every time a story was written, or when we were on television like this, you always had this phrase, Christianity is stupid, just playing.
[31:59.390 --> 32:00.450]  And I enjoyed that.
[32:00.550 --> 32:04.930]  That was something that was kind of a hidden... hidden inside thing that would kind of come out.
[32:05.790 --> 32:12.710]  Um, we also learned a lot about how, if you feed the media certain kinds of stories, they can find it really irresistible.
[32:12.910 --> 32:17.810]  We learned a lot about how much the media is very irresponsible and does not check their facts.
[32:18.210 --> 32:23.030]  Um, we learned a lot about how, uh, they cannibalize each other.
[32:23.250 --> 32:26.930]  Um, they thought this story was true because they'd read about it in other news media.
[32:27.070 --> 32:33.330]  The day after this ran, we were called by the San Francisco Chronicle, and Richard did a great thing.
[32:33.510 --> 32:35.110]  He said, we don't want to talk to you.
[32:35.170 --> 32:38.730]  We just had a rock thrown through our window after the news broadcast last night.
[32:38.930 --> 32:45.490]  People think we're trying to publicize the band in some way, and, uh, and our dishes are broken.
[32:45.750 --> 32:54.070]  And that ran as the page three story in the front section that we are now under attack because of the media coverage.
[32:55.050 --> 33:04.650]  Um, so, uh, in the end, we decided to, um, shelve the project we were working on at the time.
[33:04.850 --> 33:07.790]  And we, of course, had been collecting all the media and recordings we were getting.
[33:07.970 --> 33:10.750]  We were getting, uh, people from the press calling us on the phone.
[33:10.930 --> 33:18.610]  We decided to make a record about what we had done and to document the whole thing and use all the media sources we were collecting.
[33:19.070 --> 33:28.610]  And because of that ridiculous, um, comparison to, uh, Helter Skelter and the song, Christianity is Stupid, we decided to call the record Helter Stupid.
[33:29.910 --> 33:39.290]  So, at this point, I remember thinking, well, you know, this is giving us a pretty strange reputation.
[33:39.670 --> 33:51.530]  You know, we've, we've done something that I think is, uh, a really interesting, fun, and funny, uh, creative prank project that also sort of exposes a lot of stuff.
[33:51.530 --> 33:54.970]  But we also really were exploiting a real tragedy.
[33:55.190 --> 33:59.310]  I mean, those people really were chopped up by, by, uh, that boy.
[34:00.970 --> 34:02.590]  And I don't think there's any way around that.
[34:02.670 --> 34:04.870]  We had discussions about this because we felt some qualms.
[34:04.990 --> 34:09.990]  But, I mean, Don in our group said something to me that's always stuck with me and he said, good art does not have to be nice.
[34:11.030 --> 34:19.230]  Um, but I remember thinking that, well, this, this is a strange new kind of image that's going to stick with us forever.
[34:19.430 --> 34:20.350]  This very dark thing.
[34:20.350 --> 34:24.950]  I can't imagine we'd ever do anything else that would get any kind of attention like this had.
[34:25.670 --> 34:35.750]  So, anyway, we were, a few months after that, I was handed a tape recording at a show of ours in Portland, Oregon that was an interesting tape recording of a top 40 DJ named Casey Kasem.
[34:41.190 --> 34:48.130]  And this inspired our next very interesting project which altered my life dramatically and it's probably one...
[34:48.130 --> 34:50.890]  And which we don't have time to get into now, but, uh, take my word for it.
[34:50.970 --> 34:57.570]  Mark Roswell goes on and on with all kinds of stories about, uh, about what, uh, he and Negative Land were up to and how they had fun with the media.
[34:57.870 --> 35:03.330]  And, uh, it's just, it's, it's unbelievable the kinds of things that some people are, are, are doing out there.
[35:03.730 --> 35:08.150]  And just watching him, uh, give this presentation, I think is inspiring to so many people.
[35:08.350 --> 35:13.790]  Uh, and we're offering that as a part of our H2K2 VCD package for 125 bucks.
[35:13.950 --> 35:18.550]  You'll get, his presentation which takes up, uh, two full-length VCDs.
[35:18.670 --> 35:19.890]  That's about, uh, two hours in length.
[35:20.090 --> 35:22.030]  Uh, you'll also get Jello Biafra.
[35:22.130 --> 35:23.130]  You'll get Aaron Magruder.
[35:23.310 --> 35:27.650]  You'll get, uh, the mentor, uh, giving a talk on, uh, the constitution of a hacker.
[35:28.070 --> 35:32.530]  And, uh, you'll get a, um, a panel featuring our own Bernie S.
[35:32.790 --> 35:35.430]  Uh, along with others talking about abuse of authority.
[35:35.650 --> 35:39.030]  Something that, uh, he knows something about because authority was abused against him.
[35:39.430 --> 35:42.450]  But, um, well, Jim, you were in the audience for, uh, for Negative Land, weren't you?
[35:42.690 --> 35:43.390]  Yeah, yes, I was.
[35:43.470 --> 35:44.090]  Did you bring back some memories?
[35:44.250 --> 35:44.630]  Oh, yeah.
[35:44.870 --> 35:47.110]  Yeah, it was, uh, an enthusiastic crowd, I have to say.
[35:47.810 --> 35:51.210]  Uh, and, uh, actually, there's something going on right now that people might be interested in.
[35:51.710 --> 35:55.690]  Uh, there's, uh, the illegal art extravaganza is taking place in Philadelphia right now.
[35:55.750 --> 35:57.450]  It was in New York, uh, several months back.
[35:57.710 --> 36:01.790]  Uh, but I believe until November 2nd, it's taking place, um, down there in Philadelphia.
[36:01.850 --> 36:03.230]  And you can actually, uh,
[36:10.910 --> 36:14.250]  Wednesday through Sunday from 12 o'clock to 6 p.m.
[36:14.910 --> 36:19.170]  And, uh, there's a closing party benefit on Saturday, November 1st at 8 p.m.
[36:19.830 --> 36:23.010]  Um, there's, uh, all kinds of information on that as well.
[36:23.950 --> 36:25.030]  Jeff, do you have more information on this?
[36:25.710 --> 36:27.270]  like a website or something?
[36:27.610 --> 36:28.530]  Uh, let's see here.
[36:30.030 --> 36:34.350]  I'm looking for the actual, there's a lot of websites listed here, but I'm not sure which one is the official one.
[36:34.850 --> 36:37.110]  Uh, I don't want to read the wrong one in case it's not official.
[36:38.050 --> 36:39.890]  I believe, I believe here, I've got it.
[36:40.770 --> 36:45.230]  For more info, you can go to www.mediatank.org.
[36:45.230 --> 36:46.930]  Yeah, that's the one I have, mediatank.org.
[36:46.930 --> 36:47.110]  Yeah.
[36:47.390 --> 37:03.510]  Uh, for information on, uh, the illegal art exhibit in, uh, But, uh, right now, in order to, uh, to keep, uh, this kind of thing on our airwaves and to keep, uh, this kind of spirit, uh, among so many people, we ask, several times a year, uh, that our listeners help us keep this radio station going.
[37:03.630 --> 37:10.610]  This radio station is like a, um, a big media hack in and of itself because there's no reason why it should exist in today's world.
[37:10.790 --> 37:17.610]  There's no reason why a 50,000 watt radio station that doesn't have commercials can exist in the middle of the FM dial in New York City.
[37:17.810 --> 37:19.130]  I mean, think about, think about that.
[37:19.250 --> 37:21.770]  Think about what it would take to start something like that today.
[37:21.930 --> 37:22.570]  It's impossible.
[37:22.570 --> 37:23.610]  You can't do it.
[37:23.770 --> 37:33.330]  But, since we've had this place since 1960, I believe, uh, we've been able to hang on to it completely, 100% through the donations of our listeners.
[37:33.530 --> 37:36.410]  And that, in itself, is an inspirational statement right there.
[37:36.410 --> 37:39.570]  Uh, we're just beginning our, our fall fundraiser.
[37:39.730 --> 37:43.410]  Uh, it's, um, the economy is in bad shape.
[37:43.410 --> 37:44.250]  We all know that.
[37:44.410 --> 37:46.270]  Uh, we're feeling it here at the radio station.
[37:46.410 --> 37:48.070]  We have all kinds of budget cuts we have to deal with.
[37:48.590 --> 37:57.990]  That's why we especially need those of you who can afford to, to, uh, donate something to call us, uh, ASAP, 212-209-2950.
[37:58.610 --> 38:02.030]  Uh, we, um, unfortunately, we don't have the little machine.
[38:02.410 --> 38:04.010]  Uh, this is, this is horrible.
[38:04.010 --> 38:08.230]  There's a little, uh, box that we're supposed to have that, uh, tells you how many phone calls are coming in.
[38:08.430 --> 38:09.910]  We have red blinking lights.
[38:10.110 --> 38:11.870]  We have no idea how many phone calls we have.
[38:12.050 --> 38:17.170]  We, we don't have that little, uh, yeah, if anybody knows where the little box with the red blinking lights is, please let us know.
[38:17.250 --> 38:19.170]  But for tonight, we're going to have to go blind.
[38:19.270 --> 38:24.350]  We're going to have to, you know, assume that people are calling in or assume that people aren't calling in.
[38:24.390 --> 38:25.970]  I don't know exactly how we're going to know that.
[38:34.570 --> 38:37.410]  But our phone number is 212-209-2950.
[38:37.610 --> 38:45.550]  We're going to have to rely on some faith here that our words are getting through to you, and that it means something, and that this place means something, and this radio show means something.
[38:45.930 --> 38:47.590]  212-209-2950.
[38:47.730 --> 38:49.610]  We have several different levels.
[38:50.250 --> 38:52.110]  The VCD level is 125.
[38:52.310 --> 38:59.770]  You'll get eight separate VCDs, which are video compact discs, which will play on your DVD player or computer.
[39:00.390 --> 39:02.310]  And they are from the H2K2 conference.
[39:02.470 --> 39:08.290]  Some of the highlights, eight hours of highlights, including Aaron Magruder and Jello Biafra and Mark Hosler and others.
[39:09.070 --> 39:10.210]  That's for a pledge of 125.
[39:10.350 --> 39:15.730]  You'll also get an off-the-hook T-shirt, which I believe, Jeff, you made another observation about during the break.
[39:15.910 --> 39:18.250]  Yeah, it does have white lettering on it as well.
[39:18.350 --> 39:26.270]  It has white lettering as well as red lettering, and it's something I don't notice because I'm wearing it right now, and I'm in the habit of looking down to see what my shirt says, which is probably a good thing.
[39:26.830 --> 39:28.650]  You can get that for a pledge of $50.
[39:29.970 --> 39:30.630]  Or more?
[39:30.770 --> 39:31.190]  Or more.
[39:31.370 --> 39:31.470]  Yeah.
[39:31.650 --> 39:32.590]  $50 or more.
[39:32.770 --> 39:35.390]  You'll get it with the 125 with the VCDs.
[39:35.490 --> 39:44.730]  Also, if you want to pledge $75, you'll get a copy of Freedom Downtime, the 2600 documentary on Kevin Mitnick and the whole Free Kevin movement and the hacker scene.
[39:45.310 --> 39:52.550]  In addition, for the $75 pledge, you'll get a 2600 baseball cap, which I understand people are wearing in the ballparks these days.
[39:53.690 --> 39:57.990]  The guy last night that ruined the game was trying to catch it with a 2600 hat.
[39:58.550 --> 40:00.110]  Well, you know, it's possible.
[40:00.690 --> 40:03.290]  So $75 is the video and the cap.
[40:03.470 --> 40:10.390]  $75 is the Freedom Downtime video and the baseball cap and the 2600 off-the-hook shirt.
[40:10.430 --> 40:10.590]  T-shirt.
[40:10.730 --> 40:10.930]  Yes.
[40:11.190 --> 40:14.850]  And everything above $50, you'll get an off-the-hook shirt as well.
[40:14.950 --> 40:18.450]  And I think there's BAI premiums that you can pledge for as well.
[40:18.450 --> 40:27.230]  Well, if you don't like what we're offering right now, which is entirely possible, you know, it's certainly conceivable someone might not like that, you can still pledge and get other things.
[40:27.490 --> 40:31.590]  The people down there, the tally people, are extremely helpful and knowledgeable as far as that goes.
[40:32.130 --> 40:35.930]  So please give a call now, 212-209-2950.
[40:35.930 --> 40:51.930]  Well, the point is, with all this media consolidation and all these radio stations disappearing one by one, you really need to back things up, back up what you believe in, and make a donation to keep something going if it matters to you.
[40:51.990 --> 40:56.850]  Because, believe it or not, this station is not guaranteed a home on the FM dial forever.
[40:57.450 --> 41:00.710]  There are a lot of people who certainly want to take this place over and turn it into...
[41:00.710 --> 41:02.070]  What don't they have in New York?
[41:02.150 --> 41:02.790]  A country station.
[41:02.950 --> 41:04.810]  Yeah, we could have a country station in New York.
[41:05.010 --> 41:07.570]  I don't want to give anybody ideas, but...
[41:07.570 --> 41:08.130]  What country?
[41:09.090 --> 41:09.750]  Let's put it this way.
[41:09.830 --> 41:10.490]  People who want to...
[41:10.490 --> 41:13.990]  And I'm not making enemies of country music, because, you know, there's country music that I like, too.
[41:14.130 --> 41:15.270]  You know, not a whole lot, but there's some.
[41:15.970 --> 41:23.830]  And there are people in the country music scene who have the money to, you know, to take this place over completely and run it at a profit, you know?
[41:25.890 --> 41:32.930]  So, if we're weak, we're much more likely to have something like that hurt us in a really bad way.
[41:33.030 --> 41:40.050]  If we're strong, we can stand up to people who try all kinds of hostile takeovers and, you know, pressure tactics and things like that, you know?
[41:40.050 --> 41:55.270]  People are always looking for ways to save money, and it could definitely sometime down the road be presented to us that, you know, you could save a lot of money for the entire foundation if you just go to a lower power station below 92 or something like that and give up this,
[41:55.290 --> 41:58.710]  and you'll make a few million dollars, and we'll have our country station in the middle of the FM dial.
[41:59.030 --> 42:00.210]  That could happen someday.
[42:00.690 --> 42:11.350]  But it's a lot less likely to happen if our listeners are strong and stand with us and keep this 50,000-watt radio station in the middle of the FM dial that can reach, I think, five different states on a good day.
[42:12.250 --> 42:13.350]  212-209-2950.
[42:14.030 --> 42:19.530]  If you've ever gotten something out of Off the Hook or WBI in general, this is the time to call in.
[42:19.570 --> 42:27.530]  Whether you're in the local listening area where you're listening to us on the Internet, some foreign country someplace, we get a lot of calls from around the world.
[42:27.530 --> 42:30.450]  And tonight is the night that we need to hear from you.
[42:30.550 --> 42:37.590]  Tonight is the only night that we're scheduled to be on during this fall marathon fundraising event that we have.
[42:37.710 --> 42:39.310]  212-209-2950.
[42:39.950 --> 42:45.330]  It's hard to say how many calls are coming in because we can't see it, but we sure hope that you're calling in right now.
[42:45.330 --> 42:46.450]  We could always use more.
[42:46.570 --> 42:47.470]  We could always use more.
[42:47.530 --> 42:47.850]  That's true.
[42:47.990 --> 42:48.330]  That's true.
[42:48.510 --> 42:54.350]  You know, if the people down there are overwhelmed and there's too many calls coming in, we'll deal with it.
[42:54.470 --> 42:54.990]  We'll deal with it.
[42:54.990 --> 43:01.550]  If the phone is ringing and, you know, it's not being picked up, just keep staying on the line or call back or something like that.
[43:01.650 --> 43:03.490]  212-209-2950.
[43:03.850 --> 43:05.490]  Hey, we have a listener who has come in.
[43:06.010 --> 43:07.970]  You want to come up to the microphone here?
[43:08.930 --> 43:11.750]  A listener from across the street, I believe, right?
[43:12.230 --> 43:13.650]  Well, I was over there for a meeting.
[43:13.810 --> 43:16.210]  Yeah, and you're Bob, right?
[43:16.990 --> 43:17.690]  Yeah, I'm Bob.
[43:17.950 --> 43:19.750]  We manhandle the microphones here, too.
[43:19.990 --> 43:20.330]  Okay.
[43:20.550 --> 43:22.830]  It's a traditional noise that we make here on this radio station.
[43:22.830 --> 43:25.030]  So, you're a long-time listener to Off the Hook?
[43:25.070 --> 43:30.810]  Long-time listener of Off the Hook and of WBAI, back to the Steve Post, Bob Fast.
[43:30.870 --> 43:31.430]  Oh, wow.
[43:31.630 --> 43:32.370]  You really go back.
[43:32.470 --> 43:36.650]  And Charles Pitts and a couple of other folks back from the late 60s, early 70s.
[43:36.790 --> 43:37.130]  Wow.
[43:37.270 --> 43:46.270]  But a listener of yours during the whole fiber optic and the Bernie S imprisonments.
[43:46.270 --> 43:50.690]  Yes, and I've seen you guys through a lot of stuff, and you've seen me through a lot of changes also.
[43:50.910 --> 43:52.150]  I call you from time to time.
[43:52.530 --> 43:56.770]  I'm one of those fellows that switches cell phone carriers just about once a year.
[43:57.270 --> 43:59.610]  I fall for the attractive plan.
[43:59.730 --> 44:06.110]  And I called you recently talking about Singular and all kinds of problems they've been having.
[44:07.570 --> 44:09.350]  They've cured some of their problems.
[44:09.510 --> 44:10.630]  They've been working on it for me.
[44:10.630 --> 44:13.250]  They call me and tell me that they're testing my line and a whole bunch of stuff.
[44:14.670 --> 44:17.830]  But this is fun for me, and I thank you for having me.
[44:18.030 --> 44:20.130]  Well, we wouldn't be here if we weren't for listeners like you.
[44:20.330 --> 44:26.890]  And we want to thank you for contributing to the show in the past with all kinds of information and calls and just being there.
[44:29.010 --> 44:34.050]  I don't have to tell you that there aren't very many radio stations like WBAI in existence, even in New York City.
[44:34.730 --> 44:36.190]  There aren't any others like it here.
[44:36.350 --> 44:40.190]  And in most parts of the world, you won't find a station like WBAI.
[44:40.630 --> 44:53.770]  And it's important that we remain here as that alternative voice because some of the things that we discuss, some of the things that we air, just would not be permitted on a commercial station because, you know, you have sponsors and you can't offend the sponsors.
[44:54.030 --> 45:00.010]  We couldn't talk about Singular like we've talked about Singular, you know, in our conversations because, well, they could be paying for the show.
[45:00.370 --> 45:00.770]  Absolutely.
[45:01.030 --> 45:01.210]  Yeah.
[45:01.550 --> 45:03.350]  So what is your Singular status now?
[45:03.470 --> 45:04.430]  Have you switched to another company?
[45:04.690 --> 45:08.190]  No, I'm still with Singular and I'm contracted with them for a couple of years.
[45:08.190 --> 45:15.230]  But as I had mentioned the other night, people that are calling me just about this hour get all circuits are busy.
[45:15.950 --> 45:16.850]  Oh, yeah, I remember that call.
[45:17.010 --> 45:17.350]  That was you.
[45:17.450 --> 45:17.630]  Okay.
[45:17.770 --> 45:18.210]  That was me.
[45:18.530 --> 45:18.790]  Wow.
[45:19.090 --> 45:24.230]  Well, now you can, of course, switch your number and you can have the same number.
[45:24.590 --> 45:25.890]  Same number, different phone company.
[45:26.950 --> 45:27.310]  Right?
[45:27.430 --> 45:28.590]  So you can...
[45:28.590 --> 45:34.370]  As of November, you will be able to switch to a different company but keep your phone number.
[45:34.450 --> 45:36.330]  Because every time you switched, you had to change your phone number, right?
[45:36.330 --> 45:36.410]  Yeah.
[45:36.750 --> 45:37.390]  It's a real pain.
[45:37.530 --> 45:40.750]  And a lot of people don't switch because of that simple inconvenience.
[45:40.770 --> 45:41.730]  It's only a pain to my friends.
[45:42.190 --> 45:43.170]  That's true, I guess.
[45:44.410 --> 45:54.430]  But, yeah, as of November, when portability comes, I understand that the law is going to require that the number be switched to the different company within 2.5 hours.
[45:54.790 --> 45:55.030]  Oh, baby.
[45:55.170 --> 45:55.750]  That's pretty good.
[45:55.870 --> 45:56.570]  I think Bernie S.
[45:56.630 --> 45:57.070]  is joining us.
[45:57.130 --> 45:57.630]  Bernie, are you there?
[45:58.010 --> 45:58.670]  I am.
[45:58.810 --> 46:02.130]  I guess I was a victim of Sprint PCS's direct-to-voicemail feature.
[46:02.710 --> 46:03.070]  Yes.
[46:03.330 --> 46:04.970]  Well, actually, we have a listener here.
[46:05.750 --> 46:07.990]  Why don't you sit down over there and take some headphones.
[46:08.070 --> 46:08.890]  That way you can hear Bernie S.
[46:08.970 --> 46:09.310]  on the phone.
[46:10.270 --> 46:18.850]  Bob has joined us from the listening area coming in this special marathon program to help us raise funds.
[46:19.110 --> 46:21.170]  2-1-2-0-9-2-9-5-0.
[46:21.290 --> 46:29.750]  He currently is a singular user and I guess is looking forward to the day when he can switch companies and not have to switch phone numbers, which that day, Bernie, is coming in, what, November?
[46:30.610 --> 46:32.030]  November 24th, I think, yeah.
[46:32.910 --> 46:33.310]  All right.
[46:34.070 --> 46:35.850]  Well, Bernie, what's new with you?
[46:36.450 --> 46:51.530]  Well, here in Philadelphia, right now, and through October 19th, the Creative Rights Conference is going on, including the Illegal Art Exhibit, which was in New York, I guess, about three months ago, was it?
[46:51.650 --> 46:53.110]  Yeah, no, we were just mentioning this, actually.
[46:53.330 --> 46:55.110]  There's actually two different conferences here, right?
[46:55.110 --> 46:58.730]  There's the Illegal Art Exhibit and there's also the Creative Rights Conference.
[46:58.730 --> 46:59.990]  Do you want to tell us what the difference is?
[47:00.190 --> 47:02.230]  Yeah, well, they're all part of the same...
[47:02.230 --> 47:04.090]  It's sponsored by the same people.
[47:04.750 --> 47:06.510]  And there's a lot of events going on.
[47:06.570 --> 47:15.470]  Tomorrow night, for instance, Mark Hosler, the founder of Negative Land, is going to speak about media pranks and hoaxes that he and Negative Land have pulled off.
[47:15.590 --> 47:28.030]  And we just heard a story from him, a really good story about the Christianity is stupid fiasco, both how the song was created and the effect it had on the media when they pulled a little prank on them.
[47:29.150 --> 47:37.350]  So, for anybody who wants more information about this, which is only a couple hours from New York if you grab a train, go to mediatank.org.
[47:38.390 --> 47:39.970]  That's mediatank.org.
[47:40.110 --> 47:43.290]  And you can get information about the Creative Rights Conference.
[47:43.290 --> 47:45.570]  It's going on for the next week here.
[47:45.670 --> 47:51.270]  There's panels, screenings, workshops, performances, and a whole lot of interesting stuff.
[47:51.490 --> 47:54.490]  Bernie, were you at the Mark Hosler Talk at H2K2?
[47:55.610 --> 48:00.230]  I, unfortunately, was doing some behind-the-scenes organizing work during that.
[48:00.350 --> 48:00.790]  That's right.
[48:00.790 --> 48:01.670]  You were working, yeah.
[48:02.050 --> 48:04.070]  We were all working, so a lot of us missed it.
[48:04.170 --> 48:08.910]  But it's now available on video CD, and it's one of the premiums that we're offering.
[48:09.070 --> 48:19.590]  Actually, it's part of an eight-hour VCD extravaganza that we're offering for people who pledge $125, two hours of which will be Negative Land.
[48:19.710 --> 48:24.630]  Mark Hosler of Negative Land showing videos and talking about all the various pranks that have been going on.
[48:25.090 --> 48:25.670]  We're up to...
[48:25.670 --> 48:28.390]  Now, I should point out, this might not be accurate.
[48:28.390 --> 48:32.470]  We're up to $275, which is horrendously low for this time.
[48:32.690 --> 48:34.790]  But, again, we can't see how many phones are ringing.
[48:35.230 --> 48:36.750]  So we have to assume.
[48:36.750 --> 48:39.270]  We have to assume that zero phones are ringing.
[48:39.530 --> 48:44.470]  And, unfortunately, we're going to have to talk that way until we see those numbers jump up a bit.
[48:44.470 --> 48:46.890]  Well, $275, this is not going to...
[48:46.890 --> 48:51.230]  I mean, we thank the people who called in and have pledged so far, but we need a lot more than that.
[48:51.290 --> 48:54.290]  So please, make those phones ring and make that number go up.
[48:54.350 --> 48:56.370]  The number goes up every 10 minutes or so.
[48:56.550 --> 48:57.150]  It gets updated.
[48:57.510 --> 48:59.330]  212-209-2950.
[48:59.510 --> 49:02.450]  We have all kinds of different premium categories.
[49:03.010 --> 49:07.810]  Call in and just ask, and I'm sure people will guide you to the one that suits you best.
[49:08.030 --> 49:09.890]  We're not even going to pay the phone bill with that much.
[49:10.290 --> 49:11.570]  No, no, you can't really.
[49:11.570 --> 49:17.310]  We do have, in case there aren't enough pledges, we do have rebels standing by with the rebel telephone hour.
[49:18.130 --> 49:19.990]  Don't even joke about something like that.
[49:20.210 --> 49:21.030]  Don't even joke.
[49:22.010 --> 49:23.750]  212-209-2950.
[49:24.070 --> 49:29.970]  And, of course, we're going to be hearing a bit more from the H2K2 conference to hopefully entice more people to call in for that.
[49:30.050 --> 49:34.830]  But, you know, the important thing, and I can't stress this enough, people shouldn't be calling in because of one package over another.
[49:34.870 --> 49:37.550]  They should be calling in because the station means something to them.
[49:37.550 --> 49:41.970]  The station has to survive and be strong for the years ahead.
[49:42.150 --> 49:48.510]  Believe me, there are a lot of interesting things coming up on the horizon with the way the world is going, the way this country is going.
[49:50.010 --> 50:03.210]  You need a voice like WBAI to bring you different perspectives because if you just get the Disney perspective and whatever other corporations run the media these days, you're not going to know what's really going on in the world.
[50:03.310 --> 50:13.330]  I'm not saying that listening to the WBAI is the only way to know what's going on in the world, but it's certainly a valuable perspective that needs to be heard and that is not heard in so many different places.
[50:13.510 --> 50:15.510]  Mike, you've just returned from a trip to the tally room.
[50:15.630 --> 50:19.150]  You know, I just had a conversation with some of the tally people and they're really bored.
[50:19.450 --> 50:20.510]  The phones aren't ringing.
[50:20.670 --> 50:21.370]  They're really bored.
[50:21.490 --> 50:23.390]  So it's been verified that the phones are not ringing.
[50:23.630 --> 50:25.710]  Someone's been like prank calling us.
[50:25.890 --> 50:28.570]  We don't want to talk to them, but we want to hear from people who want to pledge.
[50:28.730 --> 50:31.290]  212-209-2950 is our phone number.
[50:31.750 --> 50:32.470]  Make those calls.
[50:33.170 --> 50:33.670]  Come in.
[50:33.710 --> 50:34.430]  Make those phones ring.
[50:34.430 --> 50:40.410]  We have a room full of volunteers down there who want to take your calls.
[50:41.050 --> 50:43.090]  They want to take your call if you want to pledge.
[50:43.370 --> 50:43.690]  That's right.
[50:43.890 --> 50:47.070]  If you're calling for other reasons, you know, save it.
[50:47.350 --> 50:47.470]  Yeah.
[50:47.590 --> 50:49.250]  212-209-2950.
[50:49.970 --> 50:50.890]  That's our phone number.
[50:50.970 --> 50:54.290]  We have all kinds of different things to send your way.
[50:54.430 --> 50:57.050]  And it's very important that the station keep going, obviously.
[50:57.190 --> 50:57.450]  Emmanuel?
[50:57.670 --> 50:57.830]  Yes.
[50:58.450 --> 51:01.230]  Off the Hook has been on the air for how many years?
[51:01.230 --> 51:03.570]  Well, our first show was in 1988.
[51:03.590 --> 51:06.270]  That was like a special, a special like three-hour show.
[51:06.910 --> 51:12.430]  And then I think 1991 is when we actually started doing the show on a regular basis.
[51:13.490 --> 51:25.710]  I'm consistently amazed and surprised whenever I think that this show and WBAI in general couldn't be more relevant about current events and things that are going on in the world
[51:31.230 --> 51:37.570]  after that even more stuff happens that makes this show even more important to listen to and WBAI in general.
[51:37.770 --> 51:38.010]  Yeah.
[51:38.110 --> 51:42.210]  I remember when we started, you know, a lot of people said, well, you know, a hacker show, what can you possibly talk about?
[51:42.350 --> 51:45.530]  You're just going to, like, use up all your subject matter in a couple of weeks.
[51:45.990 --> 51:53.010]  And I think a lot of people don't realize that technology is really at the forefront of everything that's changing around us these days.
[51:53.430 --> 51:59.130]  You know, communications, internet privacy, surveillance, encryption, it's all out there.
[51:59.130 --> 52:08.050]  It's all fascinating to so many of us and it can be used as a very valuable weapon for either the forces of good or the forces of evil, however you decide to look at those.
[52:08.910 --> 52:12.890]  If you know something about technology, you have a very valuable weapon.
[52:13.170 --> 52:13.610]  It's...
[52:13.610 --> 52:15.350]  I cannot stress that enough.
[52:15.530 --> 52:16.730]  We're up to 500 bucks.
[52:16.830 --> 52:17.230]  That's good.
[52:17.370 --> 52:25.470]  But according to what Mike said from his latest fact-finding mission to the Tally Room, it doesn't bode well the activity that we're getting there now.
[52:25.470 --> 52:27.330]  So we need to see those phones ring.
[52:27.450 --> 52:30.590]  Well, we won't see the phones ring, but we need to hear that the phones did ring in a few minutes.
[52:30.830 --> 52:34.410]  212-209-2950 is our phone number.
[52:35.330 --> 52:38.130]  Pledge whatever you can afford, but we have several different levels.
[52:38.430 --> 52:49.210]  Everything above $50 will get a Off the Hook t-shirt, which you can proudly wear at all kinds of public and private events, and people will know that you're a listener and a contributor to Off the Hook.
[52:49.690 --> 53:00.690]  For $75, you'll get that as well as a $2,600 hat and a copy of our movie Freedom Downtime, which really was a labor of love that took many years to put together and it's well worth seeing.
[53:01.110 --> 53:03.530]  And Bernie, I believe you have a cameo appearance in that.
[53:04.190 --> 53:05.910]  I do, believe it or not.
[53:06.030 --> 53:07.570]  It was a surprise cameo appearance.
[53:07.710 --> 53:10.490]  I didn't even know I was going to be on it until it showed up in Philadelphia.
[53:10.490 --> 53:14.050]  You tell your whole story, in fact, and it's quite a story, too.
[53:14.170 --> 53:14.710]  It really is.
[53:16.030 --> 53:20.430]  And then for $125, you'll get the H2K2 VCD package.
[53:20.930 --> 53:22.070]  And Bernie, you're also on that.
[53:22.170 --> 53:23.950]  You're on a panel called Abuse of Authority.
[53:24.070 --> 53:25.290]  You want to tell us something about that panel?
[53:25.470 --> 53:26.990]  I don't know how I end up on these things.
[53:27.890 --> 53:53.270]  Yeah, I sort of was asked to participate in a panel discussion at H2K2, which seemed particularly relevant this is when we were going through the whole or just in the aftermath of the whole DCSS battle, which sort of outlawed the circumvention of technological measures to protect you from seeing,
[53:53.470 --> 53:58.050]  say, a DVD that you paid for from seeing it on a platform of your choosing.
[53:58.250 --> 54:08.990]  But the panel theme was more about how law enforcement authorities are using their forms of circumvention to circumvent people's civil rights.
[54:09.150 --> 54:28.490]  And, you know, that sounds sort of like a tired phrase, whatever, but there's an amazing number of techniques that law enforcement officials use, whether it's lying, cheating, stealing, or even more creative things to circumvent the safeguards that people have guaranteed under the Constitution and other laws.
[54:28.690 --> 54:36.990]  So it segwayed well into this whole Digital Millennium Copyright Act and circumvention and things like that.
[54:37.130 --> 54:39.110]  This kind of circumvention has been going on for a long time.
[54:39.230 --> 54:51.810]  So it was myself, Shapeshifter, and Alex, the three of us, as Alex described, we gave the powers to be quite a thrashing in that.
[54:51.870 --> 54:54.070]  But we gave a lot of real-life examples and what to look out for.
[54:54.230 --> 54:55.970]  And it turned out to be a lot of...
[54:55.970 --> 54:56.650]  There's a lot of applause.
[54:56.890 --> 54:58.410]  So I guess it was well-received.
[54:58.930 --> 54:59.830]  Yeah, it certainly was.
[54:59.830 --> 55:02.310]  It was something that a lot of people talked to me about as well.
[55:02.310 --> 55:05.410]  Again, I haven't seen most of these panels.
[55:05.650 --> 55:08.410]  There were 65 different panels that took place.
[55:08.550 --> 55:10.110]  So actually 65 hours of panels.
[55:10.310 --> 55:11.750]  Some of them were more than an hour.
[55:11.910 --> 55:13.710]  But so much material.
[55:13.930 --> 55:15.850]  So many interesting discussions and presentations.
[55:17.450 --> 55:20.390]  And we're offering some of the highlights.
[55:20.570 --> 55:24.670]  Not necessarily, you know, the best because everyone has a different interpretation of what the best is.
[55:24.670 --> 55:26.090]  But these are...
[55:26.090 --> 55:27.670]  They feature keynote speakers.
[55:27.810 --> 55:38.230]  They feature people like Jello Biafra and Mark from Negative Land telling their stories, which I think inspired quite a lot of people at the conference who might not have been familiar with those particular stories.
[55:38.330 --> 55:40.390]  We're offering those for pledges of $125.
[55:40.670 --> 55:50.450]  You'll get eight video CDs that will basically take you to H2K2 and relive that experience for those who were there and create it for those of you who weren't.
[55:50.830 --> 55:53.630]  For those of us who were there and just missed particular panels.
[55:53.630 --> 55:55.770]  Yeah, we definitely want to see these things as well.
[55:55.910 --> 55:57.310]  And they look really good.
[55:57.430 --> 55:58.590]  They really look interesting.
[55:58.810 --> 56:01.730]  We also have the keynote speaker, Aaron Magruder.
[56:01.910 --> 56:07.910]  In fact, I'd like to play an excerpt from Aaron coming up now because Aaron was the keynote and Bernie, you were talking about the ECSS.
[56:08.290 --> 56:10.150]  Of course, we were sued for the ECSS.
[56:10.330 --> 56:13.010]  We were sued for having the code on our website.
[56:13.730 --> 56:17.850]  And it was the first test of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act.
[56:18.150 --> 56:20.470]  And unfortunately, we lost that case.
[56:20.630 --> 56:21.850]  But the fight goes on.
[56:22.450 --> 56:29.370]  Now, what Aaron Magruder did in his cartoon strip, Boondocks, was actually address the issue.
[56:29.570 --> 56:30.830]  Address the issue of the ECSS.
[56:30.970 --> 56:33.890]  You would not expect this from something in the comic pages.
[56:34.210 --> 56:36.110]  But he actually addressed it.
[56:36.250 --> 56:37.930]  And not only did he address it, he got it right.
[56:38.090 --> 56:40.510]  He got the technological aspects of it right.
[56:41.090 --> 56:43.370]  And that's why we asked him to come to H2K2.
[56:43.470 --> 56:46.410]  And that's, I think, why he connected so well with the audience.
[56:48.510 --> 56:52.050]  were you guys following the boondocks strip before H2K2?
[56:53.550 --> 56:54.530]  A little bit beforehand.
[56:54.950 --> 56:57.050]  I think I was the one who brought it to your attention, Emmanuel.
[56:57.650 --> 56:59.350]  Well, I think a lot of people brought it to my attention.
[56:59.550 --> 57:00.110]  Well, that's true.
[57:00.250 --> 57:00.530]  That's true.
[57:00.670 --> 57:07.850]  Yes, but it certainly was something that got the hacker world interested in this kind of a thing.
[57:07.910 --> 57:09.550]  To see the ECSS and the pages of the comic.
[57:09.630 --> 57:13.090]  I mean, keep in mind, editorial pages weren't covering this.
[57:13.090 --> 57:14.910]  news pages weren't covering this.
[57:16.330 --> 57:18.090]  And this guy got it right.
[57:18.110 --> 57:22.690]  So he was a natural and, of course, he didn't think that a hacker crowd would be receptive to him either.
[57:22.910 --> 57:23.670]  He was surprised.
[57:24.050 --> 57:25.350]  Let's listen to a little bit of Aaron McGruder.
[57:25.490 --> 57:28.430]  Again, our phone number 212-209-2950.
[57:28.690 --> 57:29.470]  Please show your support.
[57:29.570 --> 57:30.730]  Get those phone calls coming in.
[57:31.030 --> 57:36.090]  Remember, pledges of $50, $75, $125 or whatever you can afford.
[57:36.490 --> 57:39.410]  You'll get some of this amazing material that we're offering here tonight.
[57:39.810 --> 57:42.390]  212-209-2950.
[57:43.090 --> 57:43.750]  Here's Aaron McGruder.
[57:44.750 --> 57:46.290]  I love Bill Amon, by the way.
[57:46.510 --> 57:46.850]  Foxtrot.
[57:47.150 --> 57:48.290]  How many people read Foxtrot?
[57:48.890 --> 57:51.570]  He was mad because I got to the DC...
[00:00.560 --> 00:02.480]  Editorial pages weren't covering this.
[00:02.700 --> 00:04.300]  News pages weren't covering this.
[00:05.720 --> 00:07.480]  And this guy got it right.
[00:07.660 --> 00:08.580]  So he was a natural.
[00:08.840 --> 00:12.060]  And, of course, he didn't think that a hacker crowd would be receptive to him either.
[00:12.300 --> 00:13.040]  He was surprised.
[00:13.420 --> 00:14.940]  Let's listen to a little bit of Aaron Magruder again.
[00:15.040 --> 00:17.820]  Our phone number, 212-209-2950.
[00:18.040 --> 00:18.840]  Please show your support.
[00:18.940 --> 00:20.100]  Get those phone calls coming in.
[00:20.360 --> 00:25.460]  Remember, pledges of $50, $75, $125, or whatever you can afford.
[00:25.880 --> 00:28.800]  You'll get some of this amazing material that we're offering here tonight.
[00:30.020 --> 00:31.880]  212-209-2950.
[00:32.280 --> 00:33.100]  Here's Aaron Magruder.
[00:34.140 --> 00:35.660]  I love Bill Amon, by the way.
[00:35.860 --> 00:36.220]  Foxtrot.
[00:36.480 --> 00:37.640]  How many people read Foxtrot?
[00:38.260 --> 00:41.600]  He was mad because I got to the DCSS before he did.
[00:41.720 --> 00:42.800]  He actually had...
[00:43.340 --> 00:44.780]  Yes, he had strips in the work.
[00:44.940 --> 00:51.540]  What he was going to do was actually run the whole code through a few weeks
[00:54.760 --> 00:57.040]  and try to see if he could get away with breaking the law.
[00:57.240 --> 00:59.740]  All right.
[01:00.140 --> 01:00.380]  I know.
[01:00.880 --> 01:03.220]  Everyone's mad now, like, oh, Aaron, you suck.
[01:04.340 --> 01:05.460]  He's going to let him do that.
[01:05.560 --> 01:06.540]  Well, I didn't know.
[01:08.360 --> 01:09.240]  We don't talk.
[01:10.440 --> 01:11.640]  So we're with the same syndicate.
[01:11.680 --> 01:12.080]  I like Bill.
[01:13.540 --> 01:15.080]  I was talking about 9-11.
[01:15.280 --> 01:16.140]  Yeah, everyone got dumb.
[01:19.040 --> 01:20.920]  So, yeah, so it happened.
[01:20.920 --> 01:22.940]  It happened on a deadline day.
[01:23.080 --> 01:26.680]  On the day I had to wake up and do, you know, six strips in a hurry.
[01:27.620 --> 01:29.940]  And, you know, I woke up.
[01:30.180 --> 01:36.520]  It's, you know, you know something huge in the world has happened when you wake up with 13 messages and it's 6 a.m.
[01:37.740 --> 01:38.400]  In L.A.
[01:40.580 --> 01:42.600]  And, you know, I turned on the TV.
[01:42.880 --> 01:43.800]  I checked the messages.
[01:44.360 --> 01:46.020]  I'm watching the towers burn.
[01:46.020 --> 01:52.140]  And my editor is like, don't worry about the strips today because the World Trade Towers are gone.
[01:52.160 --> 01:52.800]  I'm like, no, they're not.
[01:52.920 --> 01:53.440]  They're still there.
[01:53.540 --> 01:54.620]  Oh, they're on fire.
[01:56.080 --> 01:57.980]  He's like, no, no, no, you're looking at old footage.
[02:04.440 --> 02:06.900]  So, the good news was I had a week off.
[02:10.400 --> 02:12.640]  The bad news was the world's just gone to hell.
[02:15.120 --> 02:18.400]  So, I sat around literally for five days watching the news.
[02:19.520 --> 02:21.720]  Because I didn't know if I had a career at that point.
[02:22.180 --> 02:25.560]  I mean, it really felt like, oh, everything's changed for real.
[02:25.560 --> 02:31.680]  So, like, this actually is unprecedented in the history of America.
[02:32.380 --> 02:36.500]  And I don't know if anyone wants to hear from the smartass who doesn't like the government.
[02:38.720 --> 02:39.840]  But there's a great thing.
[02:39.980 --> 02:45.900]  This was the point I was going to make, which is, you know, when people say, how is it that you do this?
[02:46.080 --> 02:47.380]  How is it that you have the courage?
[02:48.080 --> 02:48.300]  No.
[02:49.780 --> 02:55.060]  Six strips, all done, at the same time, at the very last minute.
[02:55.560 --> 02:57.100]  It's a tremendous amount of stress.
[02:57.920 --> 02:59.800]  And it's always an all-nighter.
[03:00.640 --> 03:03.060]  So, sometimes I do one or two all-nighters a week.
[03:03.640 --> 03:06.620]  So, around four in the morning, nothing's funny.
[03:07.360 --> 03:09.740]  And more importantly, I don't want to be a cartoonist anymore.
[03:13.150 --> 03:20.510]  So, then the only things I can come up with are usually the things that are sort of, I feel, are so left-field that I'm the only person who's going to think they're funny.
[03:20.610 --> 03:23.450]  And they're usually very subversive and controversial.
[03:24.050 --> 03:27.210]  And then I think, well, you know, there's no way I can put this in the newspaper.
[03:27.210 --> 03:28.670]  Because if I do, I'll lose my job.
[03:28.950 --> 03:30.490]  But at this point, it's six in the morning.
[03:30.810 --> 03:31.690]  And I haven't slept.
[03:32.350 --> 03:33.830]  And I don't really want this job anymore.
[03:35.290 --> 03:36.010]  I swear.
[03:39.220 --> 03:40.420]  This is how it happens.
[03:41.580 --> 03:51.140]  So, I say, okay, I can either go with this idea that will allow me to get to bed within, you know, four to six hours if I start now.
[03:52.380 --> 03:53.680]  And meet my deadline.
[03:53.680 --> 03:54.540]  And great.
[03:54.720 --> 03:55.660]  People will get off my back.
[03:56.500 --> 04:02.480]  Or, you know, and either, you know, they will like it.
[04:02.620 --> 04:03.820]  Or I'll lose my job.
[04:03.940 --> 04:04.120]  Great.
[04:04.120 --> 04:05.160]  I'll never have to do this again.
[04:06.520 --> 04:08.200]  Either way, I get to sleep, eventually.
[04:09.940 --> 04:14.720]  And that's how all of these sort of irrational things make it into the newspaper.
[04:14.880 --> 04:19.240]  Because there isn't a lot of responsible thought going into it.
[04:19.270 --> 04:23.740]  And when I say responsible, I mean this sort of, you know, classically responsible.
[04:23.740 --> 04:25.780]  How do I keep my paychecks coming?
[04:26.200 --> 04:28.420]  How do I make sure I can pay my rent from week to week?
[04:28.960 --> 04:29.940]  That type of response.
[04:30.200 --> 04:33.380]  Everything I do from that perspective is incredibly irrational.
[04:33.380 --> 04:35.500]  And just plain dumb.
[04:36.220 --> 04:37.060]  It's dumb.
[04:38.520 --> 04:44.960]  So I was sitting there for five days trying to figure out what I was going to do about September 11th.
[04:44.960 --> 04:48.200]  And then I called the syndicate and said, well, what did Gary do?
[04:48.580 --> 04:49.200]  Gary Gideau.
[04:49.820 --> 04:51.300]  And they were like, oh, he stayed away from me.
[04:51.360 --> 04:51.860]  He didn't touch it.
[04:52.100 --> 04:53.620]  Oh, really?
[04:54.660 --> 04:55.860]  Maybe I should stay away from him.
[04:56.140 --> 04:58.240]  But see, Gary, Gary's, um...
[04:58.240 --> 05:00.740]  Gary gets his strips in a couple days ahead of me.
[05:01.020 --> 05:02.520]  So I had a little bit longer to think about it.
[05:03.800 --> 05:10.620]  And, um, you know, I just said, you know, hey, I just don't care.
[05:10.940 --> 05:13.600]  And, um, so I went hard from junk.
[05:13.840 --> 05:18.120]  I mean, I started with the media and then by week two I got into Bush.
[05:18.860 --> 05:24.840]  Um, and, um, and then I went for about four months.
[05:25.780 --> 05:31.480]  Uh, most of which you guys didn't see here because it got banned pretty quickly in the New York Daily News.
[05:32.920 --> 05:34.240]  Yes, well, that's right.
[05:34.340 --> 05:35.600]  You all, all y'all saw it.
[05:35.660 --> 05:36.120]  I'm sorry.
[05:36.940 --> 05:38.080]  What was I thinking?
[05:38.880 --> 05:40.480]  I thought I was talking to normal people.
[05:43.100 --> 05:44.500]  Y'all didn't even know it got banned.
[05:45.580 --> 05:46.520]  It got banned.
[05:48.120 --> 05:50.720]  Daily News, but at least a good month and a half, two months.
[05:51.540 --> 05:53.640]  It started with the Reagan strip, actually.
[05:54.500 --> 05:58.480]  Um, where Huey calls, uh, I don't even remember.
[05:59.120 --> 06:01.460]  And he calls the FBI terrorist hotline to turn in Reagan.
[06:03.320 --> 06:04.260]  That's what it was.
[06:07.480 --> 06:13.780]  Because he, you know, had funded and supported the Afghan rebels against the Soviet Union in the 80s.
[06:13.920 --> 06:14.560]  So, hey.
[06:15.980 --> 06:19.320]  And, you know, and then the Bush administration gave the Taliban $43 million.
[06:19.540 --> 06:20.980]  It was in May of 2001.
[06:21.720 --> 06:22.900]  There's all this stuff.
[06:24.180 --> 06:37.000]  And, you know, outside of the world of wackos and conspiracy theorists and all of that, very few people in the mainstream have been willing to say what I'm about to say.
[06:38.140 --> 06:43.000]  Which is, I really and truthfully believe that George W.
[06:43.140 --> 06:50.580]  Bush is somehow involved, either directly or indirectly, in the attacks on New York City on September 11th.
[06:59.720 --> 07:02.720]  But, what's even worse, he stole the election.
[07:06.870 --> 07:07.750]  I mean, look.
[07:11.120 --> 07:15.920]  Obviously, thousands of people dying is a really, really bad thing.
[07:16.960 --> 07:21.740]  But, as a nation, you know, nations survive attacks.
[07:22.140 --> 07:24.240]  Nations survive wars.
[07:25.100 --> 07:26.400]  They survive death.
[07:26.560 --> 07:28.620]  They survive disease, destruction.
[07:29.340 --> 07:31.400]  People get together.
[07:31.560 --> 07:32.180]  They rebuild.
[07:32.540 --> 07:33.580]  The country moves forward.
[07:34.660 --> 07:38.120]  Nations don't often survive coups.
[07:40.740 --> 07:47.360]  You know, when you just shred up the constitution of a nation, that's a much more serious offense.
[07:58.680 --> 08:01.660]  And it's not like I'm the only guy who knows this.
[08:03.540 --> 08:06.660]  I mean, what's scary to me is...
[08:08.720 --> 08:11.860]  We, at this point, are at a loss for what to do.
[08:13.740 --> 08:16.020]  We don't know what to do about our politicians.
[08:16.860 --> 08:19.240]  You know, we don't know what to do about foreign policy.
[08:19.540 --> 08:23.420]  First of all, there's a few things that you should think about.
[08:23.560 --> 08:27.960]  One, I mean, I remember at September 11th, all these people were like, let's go get them.
[08:28.660 --> 08:29.480]  Let's go fight them.
[08:29.560 --> 08:30.140]  Let's go do this.
[08:30.180 --> 08:30.760]  Let's go do that.
[08:30.980 --> 08:31.840]  Oh, yeah, like it's up to you.
[08:31.940 --> 08:32.240]  Shut up.
[08:34.000 --> 08:35.240]  All these people in coffee shops.
[08:35.260 --> 08:35.780]  I hate that.
[08:35.980 --> 08:39.660]  I hate people talking about foreign policy in coffee.
[08:39.740 --> 08:39.980]  You know what?
[08:41.580 --> 08:41.940]  Why?
[08:43.600 --> 08:44.660]  You have no say.
[08:45.060 --> 08:45.740]  Shut up.
[08:49.840 --> 08:51.500]  First of all, you don't know anything.
[08:53.000 --> 08:56.240]  That's like, Americans, I just wish...
[08:56.240 --> 08:57.340]  See, I'm the guy to say, you know what?
[08:57.360 --> 08:58.200]  I don't know anything.
[08:58.620 --> 09:00.440]  I'm standing in front of a room of people.
[09:00.600 --> 09:06.500]  You all know a lot more than I do about a lot of stuff that's actually practical uses in the world.
[09:06.720 --> 09:07.860]  God bless you for it.
[09:08.280 --> 09:09.560]  Me, I know nothing.
[09:09.740 --> 09:11.120]  But at least I admit to that.
[09:11.120 --> 09:12.020]  I tell jokes.
[09:12.320 --> 09:15.420]  I have a halfway clever sense of humor if you catch me on the right day.
[09:15.680 --> 09:16.380]  That's it.
[09:17.060 --> 09:17.780]  You know what?
[09:17.880 --> 09:19.500]  Most Americans are just like me.
[09:19.680 --> 09:20.320]  They don't know anything.
[09:21.140 --> 09:22.520]  So shut up.
[09:25.810 --> 09:32.470]  You are an idiot who has been raised by advertising since you were two and a half years old.
[09:32.470 --> 09:34.370]  You don't know anything.
[09:38.930 --> 09:44.710]  Americans, they watch, they watch like the O'Reilly Factor and feel educated.
[09:47.130 --> 09:51.970]  And talk about things as though they knew, like, you know what the problem is with Cuba.
[09:52.310 --> 09:53.610]  No, and you don't either.
[09:54.990 --> 09:56.870]  Because you've never been there and neither have I.
[09:59.010 --> 10:01.270]  Cuba could be like Nirvana for all I know.
[10:02.650 --> 10:03.470]  You don't know about Cuba.
[10:03.590 --> 10:04.370]  You don't know about Iraq.
[10:04.610 --> 10:05.170]  You don't know.
[10:05.170 --> 10:06.650]  You know, like...
[10:06.650 --> 10:07.730]  So that really angers me.
[10:08.310 --> 10:16.470]  Yes, and Aaron went on for quite a bit of time talking about other things that angered him and were interesting to him, a fascinating talk, very well received by the crowd at H2K2.
[10:16.850 --> 10:30.070]  Aaron Magruder, the author and writer and artist from Boondocks, the cartoon strip, which you can catch in most major daily papers in the United States, surprisingly enough to this day.
[10:30.250 --> 10:32.010]  It was quite a talk there.
[10:32.210 --> 10:41.890]  And, again, Aaron Magruder, the guy who occasionally lapses into issues of computer hacking and talked about the ECSS in his comic strip and got it right.
[10:42.090 --> 10:42.530]  It really did.
[10:42.730 --> 10:43.470]  I'm, uh, Emmanuel.
[10:43.610 --> 10:47.390]  I'm seeing, uh, Aaron Magruder in, uh, even more mainstream media outlets now.
[10:47.490 --> 10:49.510]  But his, uh, his line has not changed.
[10:49.610 --> 10:55.170]  Fortunately, he was on the, on, uh, uh, Bill Maher's, uh, HBO show the other night with, uh, Michael Moore.
[10:55.350 --> 10:55.910]  Yes, yes.
[10:55.910 --> 10:56.650]  It was a good show.
[10:57.270 --> 11:00.130]  Yeah, he always has a very interesting perspective on things.
[11:00.190 --> 11:08.270]  He may not always agree with what he has to say, but, uh, the way he says it, I think, is, is very conducive to, uh, inspiring conversation.
[11:08.750 --> 11:09.810]  And just thinking...
[11:09.810 --> 11:21.770]  One of the lines, one of the lines I remember from his talk at H2K2 was, uh, uh, in his opinion, uh, who, the smartest, the smartest person behind the keyboard, uh, it's a fair fight.
[11:22.350 --> 11:22.470]  Mm-hmm.
[11:22.510 --> 11:24.950]  Or it's whoever's smartest behind the keyboard should win.
[11:25.170 --> 11:26.570]  And he thinks that's a fair fight.
[11:26.690 --> 11:32.450]  Unfortunately, that's not how the game's played, but I thought that was a good, uh, conclusion he came to.
[11:33.390 --> 11:39.350]  We're playing excerpts from, uh, the H2K2 conference, which are a part of the premium package we're offering for pledges of $125.
[11:39.350 --> 11:43.230]  By the way, uh, we've, uh, we're in an expanded edition of Off the Hook.
[11:43.250 --> 11:46.510]  If you're tuning in for the personal computer show, uh, it's not on tonight.
[11:46.510 --> 11:47.290]  It'll be on next week.
[11:47.370 --> 11:52.270]  They'll have an expanded program next week, I believe, from 7 to 9 o'clock, uh, here in WBAI.
[11:52.390 --> 11:56.930]  In New York, where the time is 8 minutes after 8 o'clock, we're on until 9 o'clock.
[11:57.410 --> 12:00.310]  And, uh, we, again, are hoping that people call in.
[12:00.390 --> 12:04.470]  We don't know how many people are calling in right now, but, Mike, you were down in the tally room, and you said there was some activity.
[12:04.470 --> 12:04.910]  They were busy.
[12:05.030 --> 12:05.470]  They were busy.
[12:05.610 --> 12:06.650]  Okay, well, that's what we wanted to see.
[12:06.710 --> 12:08.470]  We wanted to see, uh, lots of phone calls coming in.
[12:08.470 --> 12:11.330]  But, uh, we have, we have a lot of donations we've made to the radio station.
[12:11.570 --> 12:15.590]  The, the, the t-shirts, the hats, the, the films, the VCDs.
[12:15.930 --> 12:24.210]  So, please call us, 212-209-2950, and, uh, accept whatever it is that we've given to the station as our way of saying thanks to, to showing your support.
[12:24.310 --> 12:26.490]  It's all one hand washing the other kind of a thing.
[12:26.650 --> 12:30.050]  They're busy, but there's more volunteers in there than I've, like, ever seen before.
[12:30.270 --> 12:31.610]  So, they can take your calls.
[12:31.850 --> 12:32.330]  You know why they are?
[12:32.370 --> 12:36.150]  Because we've developed a reputation of having a lot of listeners who support us.
[12:36.630 --> 12:41.390]  So, if all these people show up and then our listeners don't support us, we look like fools.
[12:41.670 --> 12:44.370]  And, you know, it's very bad to look like a fool here at WBAI.
[12:44.490 --> 12:49.150]  I, I also like these volunteers because the, the, at least the ones whose cards I have have excellent handwriting.
[12:49.570 --> 12:50.210]  Well, that's good.
[12:50.310 --> 12:52.310]  It's always good to have volunteers that have excellent handwriting.
[12:52.310 --> 12:56.070]  Actually, you send things to the right people and, uh, that's one of the requirements.
[12:56.210 --> 12:59.310]  If you want to be a volunteer, too, uh, we could certainly use your help.
[12:59.790 --> 13:00.350]  And, um...
[13:00.930 --> 13:03.470]  And, and, and, and, and we want, also want to thank the people who already pledged.
[13:03.650 --> 13:05.250]  Uh, Kevin from South Carolina.
[13:05.670 --> 13:06.170]  All right.
[13:06.490 --> 13:08.270]  And we have Greg from Georgia.
[13:09.110 --> 13:10.870]  And Jim from Paramus, New Jersey.
[13:11.070 --> 13:14.530]  I was going to say, everything's from the, from the southern United States, uh, so far.
[13:14.750 --> 13:15.570]  And New Jersey.
[13:15.770 --> 13:16.410]  New Jersey, yeah.
[13:16.870 --> 13:17.130]  All right.
[13:17.210 --> 13:18.910]  Well, southern, south of, south of here.
[13:18.910 --> 13:20.990]  And hopefully there are a lot more people calling in right now.
[13:21.170 --> 13:23.090]  212-209-2950.
[13:23.350 --> 13:26.130]  Uh, we're up to 750 bucks, which, uh, is great.
[13:26.250 --> 13:31.110]  I don't want to look a gift horse in the mouth, but, uh, we do need to, uh, to bring that number up considerably.
[13:31.750 --> 13:32.610]  Uh, okay.
[13:32.690 --> 13:33.670]  It's up to 1,045.
[13:33.890 --> 13:35.570]  Do you think if I say that again, it'll keep going up?
[13:36.350 --> 13:37.030]  We, okay.
[13:37.130 --> 13:39.770]  Well, I'd like to, you know, have that be at least double, you know?
[13:39.950 --> 13:41.690]  I mean, that's, that's where it should be about now.
[13:41.810 --> 13:42.770]  1,045 bucks.
[13:42.890 --> 13:43.130]  That's good.
[13:43.270 --> 13:43.450]  Okay.
[13:43.530 --> 13:44.270]  1,495.
[13:44.490 --> 13:44.910]  You're getting there.
[13:45.010 --> 13:45.330]  You're getting there.
[13:48.930 --> 13:54.090]  2,1,2,2,0,9,2,9,5,0, uh, again, uh, a strong showing here is a good thing.
[13:54.250 --> 13:56.350]  There's no reason, we, we talk about a lot of bad news.
[13:56.610 --> 14:03.150]  And, and Bernie, you know, I, I, I think you, you've, you've shared, shared your, uh, you know, your pieces of bad news with us.
[14:03.650 --> 14:04.670]  And, uh, we certainly share...
[14:04.670 --> 14:04.810]  All that bad news.
[14:04.990 --> 14:08.610]  All, all kinds of bad things are constantly happening, you know, in the world.
[14:08.830 --> 14:15.910]  You may think that we have a negative outlook on things, but I think somehow throughout it all, throughout the Kevin Mitnick ordeal, throughout the Bernie S.
[14:15.910 --> 14:22.510]  ordeal and the fiber optic ordeal and the, and, and, you know, the America going to hell ordeal, uh, we sort of have hope.
[14:22.670 --> 14:29.290]  We continue to have hope and we continue to, uh, to look to the future as something, um, something positive because people are getting together.
[14:29.410 --> 14:34.570]  People are, are, are sharing knowledge, sharing abilities and, uh, and, and fighting for justice.
[14:34.570 --> 14:36.290]  And that's sort of what this place is all about.
[14:36.550 --> 14:45.530]  You know, we have a voice here and having that voice is one of the most important things that we could ever have and not having that voice is a very bad thing.
[14:45.770 --> 14:47.590]  So please help us keep this voice.
[14:47.690 --> 14:49.410]  212-209-2950.
[14:49.710 --> 14:54.270]  Uh, I guess it's a, it's, it's a way of just investing, you know, you're the sponsor.
[14:54.390 --> 14:56.850]  You're somebody who's keeping this radio station on the air.
[14:57.010 --> 15:06.090]  You know, you're our general electric or IBM or Microsoft, you know, instead of having those guys dictating our, our programming policy, we have you being a part of it.
[15:07.070 --> 15:08.570]  212-209-2950.
[15:08.870 --> 15:09.530]  What other place?
[15:09.910 --> 15:10.690]  Anywhere on the dial.
[15:10.750 --> 15:12.510]  And I even include the non-commercial stations.
[15:13.350 --> 15:14.730]  Most of them take underwriting.
[15:14.870 --> 15:16.230]  Most of them have corporate grants.
[15:16.330 --> 15:17.710]  We don't have any of that, you know?
[15:17.950 --> 15:19.190]  No one's going to touch us.
[15:19.990 --> 15:22.030]  Nobody wants to, you know, no, no, no, no.
[15:22.050 --> 15:24.610]  Don't we have a national magazine that underwrites us?
[15:24.930 --> 15:25.950]  Uh, a national magazine?
[15:26.230 --> 15:26.430]  Yeah.
[15:26.810 --> 15:28.570]  Is this some sort of a swipe at 2600?
[15:28.750 --> 15:29.730]  Not a swipe, no.
[15:30.190 --> 15:32.330]  Underwrites, uh, underwrites the, uh, well, we donate.
[15:32.630 --> 15:33.030]  Exactly.
[15:33.270 --> 15:33.610]  Exactly.
[15:33.930 --> 15:41.410]  That's a form of underwriting, but we're not, we're not, uh, we're not saying, uh, this program is, uh, you know, is underwritten by a particular organization.
[15:41.650 --> 15:46.290]  It's, it's a different thing because then you have, um, you have oversight, you have editorial control.
[15:46.450 --> 15:50.050]  And while, you know, we're involved with the magazine, the magazine isn't dictating what we say.
[15:50.450 --> 15:52.150]  So it's an important distinction, I think.
[15:52.490 --> 15:54.110]  212-209-2950.
[15:54.530 --> 15:55.750]  Um, again...
[15:55.750 --> 15:56.750]  Magazine's no good anyway.
[15:57.030 --> 15:58.190]  Yeah, it's, it's really...
[15:58.630 --> 15:59.890]  We're going to talk after the show.
[15:59.890 --> 16:05.490]  So 212-209-2950, uh, you're just testing it to see, uh, yeah, you can, you can say it on the air.
[16:05.630 --> 16:09.070]  You can say it on the air, but, uh, well, we'll have something to talk about after the show, personally.
[16:10.070 --> 16:11.150]  212-209-2950.
[16:11.150 --> 16:18.010]  Well, 1495 is where we seem to be at right now, and, uh, we do need to get that above 2,000, um, pretty soon.
[16:18.170 --> 16:18.650]  Pretty soon.
[16:18.790 --> 16:19.370]  If not, immediately.
[16:20.270 --> 16:31.370]  Um, I was reading the, the newspaper, or actually the, the online newspaper, and, uh, apparently the, the federal government publishes a list every so often of foreign terrorist organizations.
[16:31.670 --> 16:31.850]  Ooh.
[16:32.310 --> 16:32.450]  Um.
[16:32.450 --> 16:32.610]  Um.
[16:32.830 --> 16:34.610]  Not to be confused with the do not call list.
[16:34.870 --> 16:35.750]  Totally different list.
[16:36.110 --> 16:37.170]  But you shouldn't call them, either.
[16:37.330 --> 16:39.530]  No, this, I, well, no one can call them.
[16:39.690 --> 16:41.270]  I can call people on the do not call list.
[16:41.370 --> 16:43.310]  No, you can't, because you're not touching this list.
[16:43.310 --> 16:43.850]  I got it.
[16:43.930 --> 16:44.290]  It's mine.
[16:44.410 --> 16:45.390]  I'm not sharing with anybody.
[16:45.390 --> 16:46.750]  If you're on it, I can call you.
[16:46.930 --> 16:47.650]  Well, that's true.
[16:47.850 --> 16:48.030]  Right.
[16:48.190 --> 16:48.850]  But not with the intention.
[16:48.850 --> 16:49.850]  But not if you're a terrorist.
[16:50.110 --> 16:51.210]  A foreign terrorist, anyway.
[16:51.310 --> 16:52.130]  Tell us what you have here.
[16:52.390 --> 16:58.010]  Anyway, so, on this list they list, uh, aliases, because a lot of these groups are kind of shady and have more than one name.
[16:58.410 --> 17:02.010]  So, for example, the Basque terrorist group, ETA, they list...
[17:02.010 --> 17:03.150]  Oh, we're not on this, are we?
[17:03.210 --> 17:03.870]  No, we're not on it.
[17:03.890 --> 17:04.670]  Oh, thank God.
[17:04.750 --> 17:08.810]  They list ETA, and they tell you what that stands for, some crazy Basque thing I can't pronounce.
[17:08.810 --> 17:10.990]  They tell you what it means in English, and they get a couple of aliases.
[17:11.290 --> 17:11.530]  Fine.
[17:12.970 --> 17:26.530]  So one of the groups on the list is the Kahani organization, Kahani Chai, or Kah, which is a kind of crazy Zionist foreign terrorist organization.
[17:26.530 --> 17:28.050]  Right, Mike Kahani, from years ago, right?
[17:28.130 --> 17:29.310]  Right, right, his group.
[17:30.250 --> 17:32.250]  Except he's no longer with it, because he's...
[17:32.250 --> 17:34.210]  Well, he's dead, yeah, that's why he's no longer with it.
[17:34.290 --> 17:39.430]  But he certainly inspired a lot of acts of violence in his time, and, well, we won't get into that, but regardless.
[17:39.490 --> 17:47.310]  Anyway, so they have a long list of aliases, and something interesting on their list of aliases is four websites.
[17:48.150 --> 17:48.550]  Websites?
[17:48.790 --> 17:49.190]  Websites.
[17:49.410 --> 17:49.590]  Okay.
[17:50.010 --> 17:55.630]  So this website is, these four websites are listed as foreign terrorist organizations.
[17:55.630 --> 17:57.470]  The websites are foreign terrorist organizations.
[17:57.710 --> 17:57.890]  Yeah.
[17:58.690 --> 17:59.650]  The actual HTML?
[18:00.830 --> 18:02.370]  Okay, this is interesting.
[18:03.370 --> 18:04.130]  Now what I...
[18:04.130 --> 18:04.650]  Go ahead.
[18:05.010 --> 18:09.530]  Now what I found even more bizarre than this listing of websites as foreign terrorist...
[18:09.530 --> 18:13.050]  I don't even know what it means to be a website that's a foreign terrorist organization.
[18:13.950 --> 18:20.410]  First of all, of these four websites, at least one of them is no longer owned by anyone or affiliated with this organization.
[18:20.410 --> 18:22.590]  The domain expired, and someone else snapped it up.
[18:22.990 --> 18:31.310]  You mean, they're listing terrorists, terrorist websites, and they're not even registered by the terrorists anymore.
[18:31.490 --> 18:31.570]  No.
[18:31.570 --> 18:32.770]  They're registered by somebody else.
[18:32.930 --> 18:33.430]  It expired.
[18:33.630 --> 18:37.050]  Someone else, like, saw this list, saw that it had expired, and snapped it up.
[18:37.450 --> 18:38.870]  So that's Kahani.net.
[18:38.890 --> 18:39.910]  So that's just right out.
[18:39.990 --> 18:40.810]  When did this happen?
[18:40.910 --> 18:41.470]  When did they...
[18:41.470 --> 18:44.190]  I mean, is it a recent thing that they got the website, or is it...
[18:44.190 --> 18:44.710]  I don't know.
[18:44.990 --> 18:46.250]  They didn't do their research, did they?
[18:46.410 --> 18:47.110]  No, not at all.
[18:48.050 --> 18:52.870]  Now, the other three websites, two of them have just basically no content.
[18:53.010 --> 18:54.930]  So I have, you know, really no comment on it.
[18:55.610 --> 19:04.750]  The only kind of, I guess, one that seems to be run by terrorists, run actively by these people, if they're terrorists, I don't know, Kahani.org.
[19:05.690 --> 19:10.030]  Now, if you do a Whois, there's this program called Whois that lets you see who owns the domain.
[19:10.150 --> 19:13.970]  So you type whois2600.com, it says 2600 Magazine owns it.
[19:14.050 --> 19:15.390]  Oh, now you gave that secret out.
[19:15.390 --> 19:16.190]  Okay, fine.
[19:16.350 --> 19:16.950]  Everybody knows that.
[19:16.950 --> 19:19.550]  You type WhoisKahani.org, and it comes up with some people in Brooklyn.
[19:21.030 --> 19:24.650]  Now, Brooklyn may be a strange place, but last I checked, it wasn't foreign.
[19:26.270 --> 19:27.190]  No, no.
[19:27.410 --> 19:32.910]  But don't they always accuse people in Brooklyn of, you know, plotting to blow up bridges and buildings and things like that?
[19:33.350 --> 19:33.750]  Maybe.
[19:34.070 --> 19:37.970]  But this is a list of foreign terrorist organizations, and they've listed people in Brooklyn.
[19:38.570 --> 19:39.370]  That's interesting.
[19:39.510 --> 19:45.250]  Now, you would think that if the FBI were so fascinated by these people, they could just go to Brooklyn and get them without publishing all these lists.
[19:45.250 --> 19:45.870]  I'm not sure I understand.
[19:45.870 --> 19:51.190]  What's the purpose of publishing website lists as, I mean, are we not supposed to go to these websites now?
[19:51.230 --> 19:52.450]  Are we in trouble if we do that?
[19:53.430 --> 19:56.970]  If your child is surfing to Kahani.net, are we supposed to take an interest?
[19:57.130 --> 19:57.210]  What?
[19:57.370 --> 19:58.450]  It's very, very...
[19:58.450 --> 20:01.490]  I mean, for the actual groups, Al-Qaeda's on the list.
[20:01.590 --> 20:02.630]  It's illegal for a U.S.
[20:02.690 --> 20:05.070]  citizen to give money to Al-Qaeda because it's on this list.
[20:05.070 --> 20:08.010]  Well, what if we click on an ad that's on Al-Qaeda's website?
[20:08.010 --> 20:08.970]  Is that giving money to them?
[20:09.030 --> 20:09.510]  I don't know.
[20:09.930 --> 20:11.270]  Do they have ads on Al-Qaeda's website?
[20:11.390 --> 20:12.030]  I have no idea.
[20:12.070 --> 20:12.710]  Somebody go check.
[20:13.250 --> 20:15.730]  Well, okay, so what did they actually say in their statement?
[20:16.090 --> 20:17.970]  Are they just warning us about this?
[20:18.030 --> 20:20.350]  They don't say... It's just a list of organizations.
[20:20.670 --> 20:21.690]  Where can I get this list?
[20:21.810 --> 20:27.310]  You can get it from the Federal Register, the Department of State website, all kinds of places.
[20:27.310 --> 20:28.910]  And how many names are on this list?
[20:28.910 --> 20:31.310]  It's a fairly long list, you know.
[20:31.610 --> 20:32.770]  You're sure we're not on it?
[20:32.870 --> 20:33.870]  I'm sure we're not on it.
[20:34.150 --> 20:36.090]  We'll be right at the top because we're 2,600.
[20:36.310 --> 20:36.470]  Right.
[20:36.550 --> 20:38.030]  I read the list.
[20:38.170 --> 20:38.710]  I didn't see it.
[20:38.850 --> 20:39.170]  All right.
[20:39.290 --> 20:39.710]  That's good.
[20:40.690 --> 20:43.210]  No, I just wanted to point out the new amount.
[20:43.330 --> 20:44.010]  The numbers are going up.
[20:44.070 --> 20:44.350]  That's good.
[20:44.430 --> 20:46.110]  212-209-2950.
[20:46.410 --> 20:47.970]  Bernie, do you have any insight on all this?
[20:48.270 --> 20:50.370]  Oh, well, there's dozens of websites on that list.
[20:50.450 --> 20:54.170]  And the kahuna.net, I checked that out myself using WhoIs.
[20:54.450 --> 20:57.530]  And it's registered to a group here in Philadelphia.
[20:57.530 --> 20:59.870]  Philadelphia, just a few blocks from my office.
[21:00.650 --> 21:13.630]  So I researched this, and these people just snapped up this domain name that expired several months ago, yet the State Department continues to publish that alias, kahuna.net, as a foreign terrorist organization.
[21:14.010 --> 21:19.630]  So it shows you how confident the government is in keeping track of this alleged terrorist information.
[21:19.830 --> 21:26.110]  Well, I mean, you know, if they didn't do their research as far as this goes, maybe they're not doing their research on other matters as well.
[21:28.850 --> 21:32.390]  Now, did anybody go to their website, the current website of that organization?
[21:32.770 --> 21:45.810]  Yeah, I went there, kahuna.net, and it's a guy who, he's got a picture of a dove holding an olive branch, and you hear a John Lennon song about peace playing with, you know, audio files.
[21:46.150 --> 21:47.990]  Well, did he pay for the right to play that song?
[21:48.730 --> 21:49.910]  No, I don't know.
[21:50.090 --> 21:51.310]  Because that's how the terrorists operate.
[21:51.310 --> 21:54.910]  They don't obey certain laws, and before you know it, it's anarchy.
[21:55.090 --> 21:56.170]  Report them to the RIA.
[21:56.870 --> 21:58.230]  I just might, you know.
[21:58.290 --> 21:59.470]  There's a lot of reporting going on.
[21:59.810 --> 22:03.210]  Well, they're often referred to as a terrorist organization themselves.
[22:03.450 --> 22:04.190]  Are they on the list?
[22:04.430 --> 22:04.650]  The RIA.
[22:04.650 --> 22:06.830]  They're from a foreign terrorist organization.
[22:07.070 --> 22:08.090]  Oh, they're pretty foreign to me.
[22:08.110 --> 22:09.730]  They're from California, by definition.
[22:09.890 --> 22:10.190]  They're foreign.
[22:10.190 --> 22:14.110]  So far, we've had Philadelphia and Brooklyn represented as foreign areas where terrorists are.
[22:14.950 --> 22:15.950]  Okay, so...
[22:15.950 --> 22:18.150]  You've terrorized a lot of people lately, that's for sure.
[22:18.410 --> 22:23.910]  This is an indication of the absurdity sometimes of the things that come out of the news.
[22:24.030 --> 22:25.290]  I should point out, the people are in Brooklyn.
[22:25.510 --> 22:29.510]  The web server appears to be in, like, Texas or somewhere, which is a strange place.
[22:29.550 --> 22:29.670]  That's still not foreign.
[22:29.670 --> 22:30.270]  It's still not foreign.
[22:30.290 --> 22:31.430]  It's far away, but it's not foreign.
[22:31.870 --> 22:33.810]  All right, so where can people see this list for themselves?
[22:34.430 --> 22:39.150]  They need to go to either the Federal Register and look in Monday's edition.
[22:40.670 --> 22:49.330]  You go to the government website, find the Federal Register, find Monday, and then find the State Department, and it'll be right there.
[22:49.430 --> 22:51.790]  Or maybe we'll just get it ourselves and put it on our website.
[22:51.910 --> 22:52.070]  How do you like that?
[22:52.070 --> 22:52.530]  We could do that.
[22:52.630 --> 22:53.870]  All right, we'll talk after the show.
[22:54.530 --> 22:54.670]  Jeff?
[22:55.010 --> 22:58.150]  There is an ad from the Al-Qaeda page.
[22:58.330 --> 23:00.030]  It's the Victoria's Burkas.
[23:00.690 --> 23:01.810]  So that's on there.
[23:01.870 --> 23:02.570]  You can click on that.
[23:02.710 --> 23:03.090]  A joke.
[23:03.110 --> 23:03.550]  I get it.
[23:04.070 --> 23:04.290]  Yeah.
[23:04.890 --> 23:05.670]  Okay, that's good.
[23:05.670 --> 23:22.430]  But 212-209-2950, if you found any of that discourse interesting, please show your support by calling us and pledging whatever you can afford to keep this radio show, keep this radio station strong, and I guess bringing you important bits of information.
[23:22.430 --> 23:23.850]  Did you hear that story anywhere else?
[23:24.030 --> 23:25.070]  Did anyone hear that story?
[23:25.430 --> 23:25.630]  No.
[23:25.790 --> 23:27.070]  I didn't hear that story anywhere else.
[23:27.210 --> 23:28.710]  In fact, I heard it tonight for the first time.
[23:28.870 --> 23:37.090]  So that tells you that we don't talk to each other, and also that there's all kinds of information out there that is just not being reported.
[23:37.290 --> 23:38.270]  You need to read your email.
[23:39.050 --> 23:39.570]  Yeah, I know.
[23:39.710 --> 23:40.710]  Do you know how much email I get?
[23:40.890 --> 23:42.510]  A lot of it's from terrorist organizations, too.
[23:43.530 --> 23:44.330]  Or alleged.
[23:45.490 --> 23:48.290]  212-209-2950 is our phone number.
[23:48.430 --> 23:54.070]  Please show your support, keep the radio station strong, and pick up some really nifty things as well.
[23:54.410 --> 24:00.850]  We have a couple of other stories we're going to get into, and then we're going to play a piece from Jell Biafra from the H2K2 conference.
[24:00.850 --> 24:05.070]  Now, that video CD can be yours, along with all the other video CDs.
[24:05.290 --> 24:13.830]  For a pledge of $125, you'll also get an official Off the Hook t-shirt, which will prove that you are a supporter of the coolest radio show in town.
[24:14.370 --> 24:14.890]  That's right.
[24:14.970 --> 24:16.570]  212-209-2950.
[24:16.830 --> 24:29.150]  For a pledge of $75, you'll get the Off the Hook t-shirt, a $2,600 baseball cap, and a copy of the film Freedom Downtime, a documentary film that we made a couple of years ago.
[24:30.010 --> 24:34.070]  That kind of tells a very interesting story about something that happened in the hacker world.
[24:34.490 --> 24:42.410]  And, well, it's hard to really talk about because we spent so much of our time on it, but it's really a lot of fun to watch.
[24:42.470 --> 24:48.910]  To this day, I still get a kick out of watching parts of it, and I think that's a good sign when you don't get totally sick of it after seeing it a few hundred times yourself.
[24:49.650 --> 24:51.090]  212-209-2950.
[24:51.250 --> 24:58.870]  All pledges above $50, you'll automatically get the Off the Hook t-shirt, and any pledge is welcome, no matter how small and no matter how big.
[24:59.030 --> 25:01.190]  212-209-2950.
[25:01.430 --> 25:03.030]  Help us break the $2,000 mark.
[25:03.030 --> 25:04.970]  Help us go even further than that.
[25:07.010 --> 25:10.030]  We certainly could use all the help we can get here at the radio station.
[25:10.030 --> 25:20.610]  As you know, the economy is in a horrible state, and it certainly is affecting us here at the radio station as well, so we need as much help as we can get to keep bringing you the programs that you want to hear.
[25:20.790 --> 25:23.130]  If this place were not here, well, you wouldn't be hearing us right now.
[25:23.250 --> 25:27.630]  You'd be hearing something, well, you probably wouldn't be listening, because it would probably be awful whatever was on the air.
[25:28.350 --> 25:32.130]  So that's why it's important to keep the station in the hands of the people.
[25:32.250 --> 25:33.710]  212-209-2950.
[25:33.890 --> 25:34.670]  Do we have more people to thank?
[25:34.930 --> 25:35.310]  We do.
[25:35.970 --> 25:37.390]  Okay, it's always good to have people to thank.
[25:37.610 --> 25:41.190]  I'll thank David from Wayfied, New Jersey.
[25:41.470 --> 25:41.830]  Okay.
[25:42.470 --> 25:43.410]  Joham from Sweden.
[25:44.070 --> 25:44.690]  How do you say that?
[25:45.990 --> 25:46.350]  Joham?
[25:46.450 --> 25:46.910]  Spell that.
[25:47.110 --> 25:48.210]  J-O-H-A-M?
[25:48.390 --> 25:49.670]  J-O-H-A-M.
[25:50.230 --> 25:51.150]  I don't think that's how you say it.
[25:51.230 --> 25:51.590]  Joham?
[25:51.890 --> 25:52.530]  I'm not sure.
[25:52.890 --> 25:53.190]  Joham.
[25:53.770 --> 25:54.090]  Okay.
[25:54.310 --> 25:54.790]  What was that, Bernie?
[25:54.850 --> 25:55.230]  How do you say it?
[25:55.810 --> 25:56.570]  Johan, I believe.
[25:56.750 --> 25:57.110]  Johan?
[25:57.190 --> 25:57.490]  All right.
[25:57.810 --> 25:58.350]  Well, thanks.
[25:58.430 --> 25:59.570]  Thanks so much for that call from Sweden.
[26:02.350 --> 26:05.690]  And Zuleja from Yonkers, another name mispronounced.
[26:05.990 --> 26:06.110]  Okay.
[26:06.230 --> 26:06.990]  But a lot closer.
[26:07.290 --> 26:08.250]  We thank them anyway.
[26:08.570 --> 26:08.810]  All right.
[26:08.870 --> 26:09.690]  Thanks so much for your calls.
[26:09.790 --> 26:11.410]  212-209-2950.
[26:11.570 --> 26:12.050]  Jeff, you have more?
[26:12.050 --> 26:16.710]  And it looks like we've got Lavasa from Union City, New Jersey.
[26:17.250 --> 26:19.490]  We've got Duris from the Bronx.
[26:20.150 --> 26:22.810]  And Robert from Brentwood, New York.
[26:23.230 --> 26:24.010]  Out there on Long Island.
[26:24.250 --> 26:24.490]  All right.
[26:24.550 --> 26:25.390]  Thanks so much for those calls.
[26:25.530 --> 26:27.010]  We know there's a lot more people listening.
[26:27.110 --> 26:32.530]  We know there are people driving in their cars right now that can legally make phone calls because they have those hands-free units.
[26:32.690 --> 26:33.750]  Yes, I'm talking to you.
[26:34.530 --> 26:35.890]  Why not make that call now?
[26:36.030 --> 26:36.710]  It's very easy.
[26:36.710 --> 26:41.370]  All you have to do is dial 212-209-2950, and we take all kinds of credit cards.
[26:41.530 --> 26:45.570]  Just simply read those numbers out or give us your name and address, and we'll send you a little reminder in the mail.
[26:46.690 --> 26:47.710]  212-209-2950.
[26:48.450 --> 26:57.630]  If Off the Hook matters to you, if WBAI matters to you, please make that investment and keep this radio station going because it's the only way that we manage to keep going.
[26:57.630 --> 26:59.650]  We don't sell advertising.
[26:59.850 --> 27:01.070]  We don't have an advertising department.
[27:01.790 --> 27:04.430]  And yeah, it can be annoying hearing people ask for money over the air.
[27:04.510 --> 27:05.010]  I know that.
[27:05.150 --> 27:14.350]  But every time you hear a commercial, every time you hear a commercial, it's not only somebody asking for money, it's somebody taking money from you because you're paying for all those commercials in the products that you buy.
[27:14.970 --> 27:17.070]  Advertising, that's the biggest expense of any product.
[27:17.330 --> 27:20.330]  So whenever you hear a commercial, it's something that you've already paid for.
[27:20.650 --> 27:22.290]  You don't hear that on this radio station.
[27:22.310 --> 27:26.530]  You hear these occasional fundraising drives that are essential to keep the place going.
[27:27.730 --> 27:31.610]  And if you pledge your support, then a lot more can happen here.
[27:31.750 --> 27:34.970]  This is refreshing, too, to see that there are people...
[27:34.970 --> 27:36.870]  And the name probably was Doris.
[27:37.010 --> 27:38.370]  It's just written differently here.
[27:38.510 --> 27:41.090]  But no premium, just donating money.
[27:41.230 --> 27:41.710]  That's great.
[27:42.030 --> 27:52.110]  That's what it's really all about, is making that donation, because you know the place is important, and you know the voices, the words, the opinions, the feelings that come out of these airwaves are essential.
[27:52.290 --> 27:56.290]  And without them, this city, this country, this world would be all the poorer.
[27:56.530 --> 27:58.170]  212-209-2950.
[27:58.310 --> 28:02.110]  Not to make us sound too self-important here, but I'm talking about the station in general.
[28:02.370 --> 28:05.950]  Some of the things you hear on the station are just things you wouldn't hear anywhere else.
[28:06.090 --> 28:07.950]  I'm not saying, you know, you have to agree with everything you hear.
[28:08.050 --> 28:08.750]  I certainly don't.
[28:09.050 --> 28:11.590]  And there's a lot of times you hear things that outrage you, totally.
[28:12.090 --> 28:13.050]  But that's part of it.
[28:13.130 --> 28:14.150]  That's part of the whole process.
[28:14.210 --> 28:21.730]  If you disagree or something, you still have to support the ideas, the right to say the ideas, the right to get people thinking and talking and discussing.
[28:21.910 --> 28:27.650]  And I think, I like to think that despite everybody here on this radio station is open to differing thought.
[28:27.830 --> 28:28.750]  We certainly are here.
[28:28.890 --> 28:31.910]  212-209-2950 is our phone number.
[28:32.010 --> 28:35.010]  And while we're thanking all the people that pledged, we also want to thank the anonymous ones.
[28:35.230 --> 28:36.070]  Yes, yes.
[28:36.270 --> 28:38.710]  You are the true supporters of the radio station as well.
[28:39.210 --> 28:42.750]  And we've gotten by with that support for so many years.
[28:42.750 --> 28:44.930]  There's 212-209-2950.
[28:45.130 --> 28:46.990]  Again, we have many different packages.
[28:46.990 --> 28:51.590]  You can ask the Tally people for their advice and help and that kind of a thing.
[28:52.550 --> 28:59.190]  Let's play the Jello Biafra piece from the video CD collection that we're offering for $125.
[29:01.690 --> 29:06.770]  Jello, as you may know, showed up at our conference back in 2000, H2K.
[29:07.270 --> 29:08.850]  He was the keynote speaker then.
[29:09.270 --> 29:17.790]  And he had so much fun, he showed up a second time, even when he wasn't the keynote, just to talk to a bunch of hackers and give his State of the World address.
[29:18.270 --> 29:19.510]  And he went on for quite some time.
[29:19.570 --> 29:22.950]  Not only did he talk about the State of the World, he played all kinds of corporate anthems.
[29:22.950 --> 29:30.710]  And I haven't seen this talk myself yet or heard it, but I've heard so many good reports about it.
[29:31.030 --> 29:38.330]  And I also should point out, if you're concerned about sound quality that you're hearing, keep in mind, this is not the sound that we took from the VCDs.
[29:38.370 --> 29:41.310]  This is the sound that we actually pulled off of the MP3s that we made out of it.
[29:41.850 --> 29:45.590]  So it's not quite as good quality over the air as it will be over the VCD.
[29:45.730 --> 29:50.750]  You might hear on the VCDs, you might hear the typical AV hum that you get at conferences.
[29:51.090 --> 29:52.010]  It's unavoidable.
[29:52.010 --> 29:56.310]  It won't be as pronounced, though, because when it's played over the radio, certain things get amplified.
[29:57.010 --> 29:58.610]  But, again, you will be getting video.
[29:58.930 --> 30:04.950]  You'll be seeing a lot of this material and the faces that made it all happen.
[30:05.230 --> 30:17.870]  You'll be getting Negative Land, Mark from Negative Land, Aaron Magruder, Jello Biafra, The Mentor, who is a hacker icon, and Bernie S., and a bunch of other people talking about abuse of authority.
[30:18.510 --> 30:24.530]  And, Bernie, I still, like I said, I still get all kinds of comments about that panel and how informative it was.
[30:25.250 --> 30:27.830]  Well, well, we just winged it.
[30:27.990 --> 30:29.850]  Well, don't tell people that.
[30:30.470 --> 30:35.030]  But hopefully next conference, which we're certainly hoping will be next year.
[30:35.030 --> 30:37.970]  Again, these things take all kinds of coordination.
[30:37.970 --> 30:39.650]  They take all kinds of investment.
[30:40.330 --> 30:46.530]  And if we know people are out there and that it matters and that they'll be there for us, it's a lot easier to plan for these things.
[30:46.770 --> 30:53.410]  You know, if you're not sure what's going to happen, then you have to be very concerned with, you know, what it is that you decide to do.
[30:53.410 --> 31:00.790]  Based on the response that we've gotten to the conference and to all kinds of things related to it, we certainly want to go ahead with another one next year.
[31:01.190 --> 31:05.870]  But they are expensive, and they take so much time and effort.
[31:06.050 --> 31:16.390]  But, you know, if they pay off, if they make people learn something and spread some ideas around and get people connected, it's worth whatever hassle happens.
[31:16.770 --> 31:20.110]  And I hope a lot of people will agree with that because that's going to determine the future.
[31:20.110 --> 31:20.130]  Sure.
[31:20.550 --> 31:22.550]  212-209-2950.
[31:22.790 --> 31:23.610]  Show your support.
[31:23.610 --> 31:29.450]  We're going to be playing a piece from Jello Biafra now, and we'll be back right after we play that.
[31:29.810 --> 31:31.290]  Hopefully this machine will work.
[31:31.770 --> 31:32.630]  Jello Biafra.
[31:33.850 --> 31:51.850]  Anyway, I took my time, as you might guess, to tell this audience why I hated major labels, why I tried to buy nothing from them, why they deserve to be downloaded and file shared, and all they put out is shit, for the most part, anyway.
[31:59.150 --> 32:09.670]  And that it's not as though these teams they want to focus on are not unaware that a lot of these major labels don't pay dick-all to the artists.
[32:10.170 --> 32:13.090]  The Hillary Rose and the rest claim, oh, we're going to bat for the artists.
[32:13.250 --> 32:22.690]  No, they're going to bat for themselves because they take the money and then charge it back to the artists, saying, oh, well, we should owe you all this money, but we have expenses.
[32:23.490 --> 32:31.350]  We took 50 college radio people out to lunch at a fancy restaurant without telling you, and you paid for it.
[32:31.430 --> 32:45.990]  We made you go into our corporate-owned recording studio and pay triple the hourly rate that somebody who wasn't on our label would go to record there, and we got the big, big-name producer where we gave them a huge chunk of what's supposed to be your money,
[32:45.990 --> 32:50.450]  then some of it was kicked back to us, and you get none of it, etc.
[32:51.250 --> 32:59.090]  And, of course, now that you get to travel in your big Rockstar tour bus, never occurred to you you were paying for that, too, did it?
[33:00.470 --> 33:04.570]  Anyway, so, I made the point that I think somebody else made...
[33:04.570 --> 33:18.450]  Oh, it was Mark again, right before I was on, that what the huge boom of Napster and then post-Napster says to me is that people want choice.
[33:19.050 --> 33:21.370]  They want more choice.
[33:21.650 --> 33:25.630]  Clear Channel doesn't own every radio station in the United States.
[33:25.630 --> 33:41.450]  They just own 10% of them, which is still obscene, because they really do kick out all the local news content, for the most part, and the local public affairs programming, KDIA in Oakland, when it was bought out by a Clear Channel rival, Disney.
[33:41.610 --> 33:43.230]  It was an African-American station.
[33:43.690 --> 33:51.490]  Kick-ass soul, jazz, funk, hip-hop library, that all went out the window, so I suppose they could pipe the music in from Atlanta.
[33:51.890 --> 33:54.470]  You know, people want more choice.
[33:54.510 --> 34:08.670]  And the beauty when Napster was in full swing was there were all these things like radio shows from the 1930s and live radio plays featuring very, very well-known actors that were considered lost to history.
[34:08.890 --> 34:13.510]  And somebody found them and put them up there, and so it was recovered.
[34:13.510 --> 34:16.670]  So it was almost a library for the world, in a way.
[34:17.050 --> 34:18.570]  So the question...
[34:21.620 --> 34:31.340]  The question I had for these folks is, okay, with all the evidence that people want more choice, and 7-Eleven saying, oh, now you have a choice.
[34:31.500 --> 34:32.500]  Ho, ho, ho, ho.
[34:32.500 --> 34:35.920]  Oh, incidentally, also at the Hilton was Pat...
[34:35.920 --> 34:36.600]  What was it?
[34:37.600 --> 34:39.180]  Voyage to Freedom.
[34:39.420 --> 34:43.840]  75 years of 7-Eleven convention was going on there, too.
[34:44.780 --> 34:58.560]  So why is the industry solution less and less and less choice, and this obsession of, you know, like the RIA and others, of denying people choice at all costs.
[34:58.880 --> 35:00.940]  Denying people choice.
[35:01.500 --> 35:17.480]  And business, all big business always says they want less and less regulation, libertarians say this, too, and more marketplace solutions, unless, of course, the marketplace solution doesn't fit the profit margin that they had in mind.
[35:18.040 --> 35:30.680]  And if even the teen focus group in this company is saying that they download because CDs are too expensive, and when you're supposed to only buy a full-length album and there's only one good song on it, why not just take the song?
[35:30.900 --> 35:48.100]  The reason they do this is because they don't have any money, as the teens of the focus group said, but this is dwarfed by people in other countries, like Brazil, where the record recording industry thinks there's a huge piracy problem.
[35:48.100 --> 35:53.460]  A legal CD costs $11, equivalent of $11, less than it does here.
[35:53.780 --> 35:57.160]  Pirate One, an equivalent of $2.
[35:57.700 --> 36:01.840]  And the average wage in Brazil is $70 a month.
[36:01.980 --> 36:03.740]  So which way are people going to go?
[36:04.280 --> 36:16.300]  Therefore, sure enough, file sharing and burning and everything else has turned out to be the marketplace solution that the privateers preach so much all the time.
[36:17.080 --> 36:43.590]  And the proof, according to Rock and Rap Confidential, was in India this was going on in such a rampant scale that even the major labels cut their CD prices in half and CD sales went up when the price was cut in half 150% for Sony and 300% for BMG.
[36:44.270 --> 36:53.390]  You wonder whether the Ashanti album that just went sky high on the charts for Def Jam, maybe part of the reason was they offered a $2 rebate.
[36:54.550 --> 36:58.030]  Plus, the major labels engage in their own piracy.
[36:58.030 --> 37:09.190]  One of their forms of payola is to give all these chain stores hundreds and hundreds of copies of an artist's album for free and not pay the artist for them.
[37:09.250 --> 37:13.010]  That way the chains get to sell all these and make all the money.
[37:13.210 --> 37:18.010]  But essentially, if the artist ain't getting nothing, that's sort of a pirate too, in a way.
[37:18.090 --> 37:20.670]  Only it's the major labels who are doing it.
[37:25.610 --> 37:48.110]  And I reminded them, just as I mentioned here the last time I was here, that the beauty of the digital age is that for every barrier they try to put to block us and every little toll booth and fence they put on the information highway, some bored teenager somewhere of any age is always going to find a way to f*** the whole thing up.
[37:48.930 --> 37:50.050]  Every time.
[37:55.600 --> 38:04.840]  And sure, they got their wish and sledgehammered the original Napster into what it eventually became, but it was kind of a Medusa effect.
[38:04.840 --> 38:07.540]  Look how many heads grew in its place.
[38:08.020 --> 38:09.620]  It's bigger than ever now.
[38:09.820 --> 38:21.140]  Again, Rock and Rap Confidential reported 138,000 peer-to-peer sites have been identified this time around, up 535% from last year alone.
[38:21.580 --> 38:25.820]  People want more choice and control over what they get to listen to.
[38:26.120 --> 38:27.620]  Okay, we're going to cut away there.
[38:27.700 --> 38:30.720]  That's Jello Biafra speaking at the H2K2 conference.
[38:31.400 --> 38:36.460]  And that's one of the premiums that we have available here for the radio station.
[38:36.460 --> 38:42.480]  A video CD of Jello Biafra and a bunch of other people, too, also spoke at the H2K2 conference.
[38:42.680 --> 38:49.940]  And if you pledge to get that particular VCD, you will hear the mystery words that we had to turn the volume down for.
[38:50.480 --> 38:53.460]  We have no censorship on the VCDs.
[38:54.360 --> 38:55.840]  212-209-2950.
[38:55.960 --> 38:58.260]  Jello Biafra gave a really good talk at the conference.
[38:58.360 --> 39:05.100]  Went on for several hours just talking about all kinds of world events and playing those corporate anthems and things like that.
[39:05.320 --> 39:06.860]  Hopefully we'll see him at the next conference as well.
[39:06.940 --> 39:07.760]  Bernie, were you there for that?
[39:08.380 --> 39:09.420]  Yes, it was terrific.
[39:09.680 --> 39:11.220]  He's always got an exciting talk.
[39:11.320 --> 39:12.540]  By the way, I'm still hearing Jello.
[39:13.000 --> 39:13.840]  Oh, you're still hearing Jello.
[39:13.940 --> 39:15.820]  Okay, let me tell Jello to stop there.
[39:15.980 --> 39:16.260]  Sorry about that.
[39:16.380 --> 39:17.160]  Jello has stopped wiggling.
[39:17.360 --> 39:18.380]  Yeah, that happens sometimes.
[39:19.620 --> 39:19.980]  Okay.
[39:21.120 --> 39:22.380]  212-209-2950.
[39:22.540 --> 39:23.480]  We're in the home stretch now.
[39:23.480 --> 39:26.040]  I'm happy to say we're at $2,345.
[39:26.320 --> 39:28.940]  I'm particularly happy because it's a sequential number, 2345.
[39:29.660 --> 39:34.280]  But I'd like to get that number well above 2,600, which is sort of our magic number there.
[39:34.680 --> 39:38.680]  So it only takes a few phone calls to do that, 212-209-2950.
[39:38.840 --> 39:39.880]  We have different pledge levels.
[39:40.100 --> 39:44.240]  We have 125, we have 75, we have 50, or we have whatever you can afford.
[39:45.700 --> 39:49.540]  Different premiums for different levels and all kinds of fun to be had by all.
[39:49.660 --> 39:51.300]  212-209-2950.
[39:51.480 --> 39:55.740]  We take Visa, MasterCard, American Express, and of course, we take checks as well.
[39:55.920 --> 39:56.580]  Jim, yes?
[39:57.000 --> 40:01.020]  I've got a couple people we'd like to thank for pledging.
[40:01.440 --> 40:04.480]  We have Bob here from Littleton, Colorado.
[40:05.000 --> 40:06.700]  Thank you for calling long distance, Bob.
[40:07.540 --> 40:08.420]  We have...
[40:08.420 --> 40:16.260]  it says author, and I don't know if this person is a literary light or it's just Arthur, but Arthur is from Eastern Connecticut.
[40:16.540 --> 40:20.300]  I'm not sure if that's the name of the town, but thank you as well, Arthur or author.
[40:20.440 --> 40:21.600]  That's Eaton, Connecticut, I think.
[40:21.780 --> 40:21.960]  Eaton?
[40:22.240 --> 40:23.280]  Isn't it Eaton, Pennsylvania?
[40:23.660 --> 40:24.380]  It's Eaton, Pennsylvania.
[40:24.520 --> 40:24.920]  That's what I was thinking.
[40:25.080 --> 40:25.400]  That's Easton.
[40:25.800 --> 40:28.140]  We'll check on Arthur or author.
[40:28.760 --> 40:30.180]  I heard you were in Easton, Pennsylvania.
[40:30.600 --> 40:31.200]  Yeah, that's right.
[40:31.320 --> 40:32.360]  Bernie, that's where I know it from.
[40:32.400 --> 40:33.520]  That's where you were in prison, wasn't it?
[40:33.600 --> 40:34.840]  It's also the home of Crayola.
[40:34.980 --> 40:35.480]  Did you know that?
[40:35.660 --> 40:36.840]  One of the stops on my tour.
[40:36.940 --> 40:38.000]  You visited me there, man.
[40:38.100 --> 40:38.420]  I did.
[40:38.520 --> 40:39.880]  Wait, is it really the home of Crayola?
[40:40.420 --> 40:41.760]  And the Pez Museum.
[40:41.980 --> 40:43.600]  Well, I didn't go there too when I visited him.
[40:43.900 --> 40:45.440]  Crayola just had a big parade the other day.
[40:45.460 --> 40:46.220]  Could have been a lot of fun.
[40:46.220 --> 40:48.340]  It's the world's largest Crayon they just made.
[40:48.680 --> 40:49.080]  Wow.
[40:49.520 --> 40:51.440]  Okay, it's nice to know that prisons aren't the only thing going on.
[40:51.440 --> 40:53.680]  He keeps up with the old hometown, so to speak.
[40:54.040 --> 40:54.880]  Let's continue with people.
[40:55.000 --> 40:59.660]  And we'd also like to thank, finally, Michael from Brooklyn, a local person.
[40:59.960 --> 41:04.840]  And thank you all for supporting Off the Hook here on WBAI New York.
[41:05.060 --> 41:05.260]  All right.
[41:05.260 --> 41:06.780]  Some of foreign terrorist organizations.
[41:07.120 --> 41:08.200]  Yeah, well, hopefully not.
[41:08.320 --> 41:09.900]  212-209-2950.
[41:10.020 --> 41:12.420]  I guess it's all in the perspective of the people judging.
[41:13.540 --> 41:20.340]  Again, we don't know how many people are calling in right now because we don't have that little magic box which hopefully will be replaced soon so other people will know how many people are calling in.
[41:20.460 --> 41:20.940]  It kind of...
[41:20.940 --> 41:22.760]  It's nice to see all the lights lighting up.
[41:22.820 --> 41:24.640]  You know, I don't see anything because we don't have any lights.
[41:25.900 --> 41:27.180]  But we know you're out there.
[41:27.400 --> 41:29.560]  We're going to have to get the blinking lights, folks, from Germany.
[41:29.700 --> 41:34.460]  Yeah, you know, if they can make lights blink on buildings in foreign cities, we should be able to get lights to blink here in the studio.
[41:34.460 --> 41:35.320]  It's not that hard.
[41:37.140 --> 41:38.620]  But we know that people are calling.
[41:38.780 --> 41:46.020]  We have faith that people are calling in and we just need you to call in the next less than 20 minutes or so because we'll be off the air then.
[41:46.160 --> 41:47.360]  And that's it for us for this marathon.
[41:47.700 --> 41:49.160]  So show your support.
[41:49.280 --> 41:52.920]  If you're driving now and you think you're going to make it home in time, you know, there's no point in racing.
[41:53.040 --> 41:57.600]  Just pull over to the side of the road and make the call now because after 9 o'clock you won't be able to get any of this.
[41:58.420 --> 41:59.880]  212-209-2950.
[42:00.260 --> 42:11.260]  Just think about the void in your life without WBAI, without Off the Hook, without these different voices coming your way telling you all kinds of different things such as this.
[42:11.260 --> 42:21.060]  We talked last week about the guy who revealed that holding the shift key was a way around the latest CD copy protection?
[42:21.780 --> 42:25.180]  The MediaMax CD3 copy prevention system.
[42:25.400 --> 42:25.620]  Uh-huh.
[42:25.800 --> 42:26.260]  And what?
[42:26.340 --> 42:27.520]  All you have to do is hold the shift key?
[42:28.320 --> 42:28.520]  Yeah.
[42:29.240 --> 42:31.600]  You can keep the driver's run.
[42:31.600 --> 42:31.740]  Auto run.
[42:31.920 --> 42:33.420]  So we joked about this last week.
[42:33.540 --> 42:49.400]  We joked about how this high-tech solution to, I guess, this problem is going to get this guy in a whole lot of trouble because, you know, he's violating some kind of a copy protection scheme simply by hitting the shift key or telling people about it.
[42:49.500 --> 42:59.060]  And sure enough, three days after he posted a paper on the website detailing how to defeat the copy protection software on a new music CD by pressing a single computer key.
[42:59.220 --> 43:03.980]  The maker of the software said last Thursday that it would sue him.
[43:04.320 --> 43:06.960]  That statement came from Suncom Technologies.
[43:06.960 --> 43:20.080]  They said they would sue Alex Haldeman over the paper which said Suncom's MediaMax CD3 software could be blocked by holding down the shift key on a computer keyboard as a CD using the software was inserted into a disk drive.
[43:20.180 --> 43:20.980]  And this is what they said.
[43:21.460 --> 43:35.680]  Suncom believes that by making erroneous assumptions and putting together his critical review of the MediaMax CD3 technology Haldeman came to false conclusions concerning the robustness and efficient efficacy rather of Suncom's MediaMax technology.
[43:36.360 --> 43:41.880]  They say they lost more than $10 million of their market value since Haldeman published his report.
[43:42.020 --> 43:43.320]  Now I believe we have an update on this story.
[43:43.440 --> 43:43.760]  Do we Mike?
[43:44.300 --> 43:49.960]  Well they lost $10 million because their software is junk but they changed their mind.
[43:50.240 --> 43:51.040]  They changed their mind.
[43:51.480 --> 44:02.380]  Didn't MediaMax also say that what this guy didn't know was how much better our software will be or could be but we didn't tell they didn't tell him how much better it could have been.
[44:03.300 --> 44:05.580]  It was a really ridiculous quote from Suncom.
[44:05.580 --> 44:10.400]  I'm more concerned with what they this is something recent they just changed their mind about the whole lawsuit?
[44:10.760 --> 44:11.580]  No lawsuit.
[44:11.800 --> 44:12.480]  There's no lawsuit.
[44:12.600 --> 44:13.820]  You have this on good authority.
[44:14.240 --> 44:15.460]  It's in the back here.
[44:15.620 --> 44:16.060]  Okay read it.
[44:16.580 --> 44:24.760]  The RAA had threatened action under the DMCA against I'm sorry this is the wrong guy wrong guy Ed Felton which is who was his different lawsuit.
[44:24.900 --> 44:27.780]  Right but that is who was Haldeman's graduate advisor.
[44:28.120 --> 44:31.760]  Ah okay he had a mentor then that uh you see what happens?
[44:31.780 --> 44:35.660]  You see what happens when these people like they start trouble then their students start getting into trouble too.
[44:35.820 --> 44:37.860]  It's all this it's a glorious progression.
[44:38.240 --> 44:42.040]  The whole den of iniquity in the Princeton University CS department.
[44:42.220 --> 44:55.960]  And we're the den of iniquity right here on the FM dial and you can help that den stay open 24 hours a day by calling us at 212-209-2950 pledging your support and uh and keeping keeping the bills paid here for another period of time.
[44:56.100 --> 45:11.800]  212-209-2950 oh I'm dismayed we're still at 2,345 now there could be two reasons for that could be that not a single phone call has come in or it could be that so many phone calls have come in that they're so busy that they can't update the calculator over there which is what we use to transmit the information back and forth.
[45:12.780 --> 45:25.120]  Please 212-209-2950 if you don't get an answer right away just keep trying but we do need to hear from you before 9 o'clock because that's when we are off that's when it's over for us one way or another.
[45:26.600 --> 45:34.900]  So okay so this guy's not being sued I guess that's that's good news but the fact that they would actually seriously consider it even for a moment that tells you what crazy times we live in.
[45:35.000 --> 45:55.040]  Well they did lose 20% of their stock the stock went down 20% Yeah but why did they lose 20% of their stock because their product sucked that's why but they need to blame somebody for the stockholders blame the people who designed it blame the people who made it possible that you know holding a shift key can defeat the whole thing or just blame the mentality that makes that kind of thing you know
[45:55.040 --> 45:56.860]  something that they want to create in the first place.
[45:57.060 --> 46:02.500]  Kind of like blaming hackers for Microsoft blaming hackers for security flaws in their own products.
[46:02.500 --> 46:07.060]  Yeah I mean you will you will never reach a stage where people won't be able to copy music.
[46:07.300 --> 46:08.040]  You won't.
[46:08.260 --> 46:31.500]  What you can try and do is create an environment where people want to support the artist and whatever industry the artist is part of if it's reasonable but if it's unreasonable if it's gouging the consumer if it's suing their own customers if it just has this horrible smug attitude then people aren't going to support that.
[46:31.640 --> 46:38.100]  People will do everything they can to avoid that process and you can't be surprised when that happens.
[46:38.560 --> 47:02.980]  You know I think if CDs were were reasonably priced you know people who aren't buying CDs right now they're buying something else instead they're buying you know CD players or writers or burners or blank CDs you know the money is being spent on something it's being spent on something that is affordable something that there is a need for and if you know you wonder why people aren't buying $20 CDs
[47:04.220 --> 47:12.540]  it's it's not too hard to find the answer for that I don't think 212-209-2950 Are we going to take any calls this evening?
[47:13.340 --> 47:32.180]  I don't think we have we can try we can try but I'd like people to be calling in I'll tell you what if that number goes above 2600 that'll be our cue to open up the phone lines I don't want to blackmail people there but I also don't want to distract them from the important task today which is to support the station I don't think it's blackmail I think it's incentive incentive yes but again we want
[47:32.180 --> 47:54.960]  to make sure that people really want to support the place not just calling either just to get a premium or not just calling just to hear us shut up or something like that we want people to really understand that we're serious you know this isn't a job that we don't believe in here this is something that is is very important 212-209-2950 that's the phone number you make that ring and bring our
[47:54.960 --> 48:00.260]  numbers up and keep Now, there's another case out of England.
[48:01.180 --> 48:04.620]  A hacker suspect who claims his PC was hijacked.
[48:05.220 --> 48:08.880]  You notice how you put hacker and hijack in the same sentence.
[48:08.880 --> 48:11.060]  They look almost identical, which is not a very good thing.
[48:11.300 --> 48:15.320]  But an English teenager charged with hacking and crippling a U.S.
[48:15.700 --> 48:22.640]  seaport's computer navigation system told a court last Friday his PC was hijacked by hackers posing as him.
[48:24.080 --> 48:24.640]  Okay.
[48:25.060 --> 48:38.000]  Aaron Caffrey from Dorset in southwest England was charged last year under the 1990 Computer Misuse Act and accused of unleashing a flood of data capable of knocking computers offline on a Houston, Texas seaport in September 2001.
[48:38.000 --> 48:39.500]  He denies the charges.
[48:40.080 --> 48:49.240]  He's accused of triggering the paralyzing data blast on a vital computer server used to coordinate ship movements in the Houston port, the sixth biggest shipping port in the world.
[48:49.620 --> 48:51.580]  Sounds like something out of the film Hackers, isn't it?
[48:52.260 --> 48:56.540]  He said that while the attack apparently was triggered from his computer, he was not the person behind it.
[48:56.580 --> 49:01.800]  He said his machine may have been taken over by another individual or group who then set the digital onslaught in motion.
[49:02.060 --> 49:08.100]  My computer was completely and utterly vulnerable to many exploits, Caffrey told Southwalk Crown Court.
[49:08.260 --> 49:09.780]  I wonder what operating system he was running.
[49:10.460 --> 49:11.900]  That's what I'd like to find out for sure.
[49:12.000 --> 49:19.020]  I mean, if it's possible that somebody can actually hijack a computer and make it do all kinds of things like that, that would be something to know.
[49:19.020 --> 49:21.540]  So, Caffrey was the lone expert witness for his side.
[49:21.700 --> 49:26.920]  He said hackers could have phished out his security password to steal his online identity.
[49:27.300 --> 49:29.860]  Not much in the way of hacking there, but never mind.
[49:30.240 --> 49:35.100]  Or he said they could have installed a Trojan program, so named because they can take over a machine remotely.
[49:35.720 --> 49:38.840]  He faces a maximum sentence of five years in prison and found guilty.
[49:38.840 --> 49:41.280]  And a verdict is expected sometime this week.
[49:44.240 --> 49:44.580]  Interesting.
[49:46.080 --> 49:49.480]  Interesting story and one of the many different kinds of stories that we're following.
[49:49.780 --> 49:50.940]  Oh, we're up to 2770.
[49:51.100 --> 49:51.400]  How nice.
[49:51.480 --> 49:52.820]  212-209-2950.
[49:52.980 --> 49:54.780]  I guess why don't we take some phone calls?
[49:54.800 --> 49:55.060]  Yeah, we could.
[49:55.220 --> 49:55.860]  We promised we would.
[49:56.020 --> 49:56.360]  Absolutely.
[49:56.540 --> 49:58.480]  We still want to try and break 3,000.
[49:58.600 --> 49:59.100]  Yeah, we do.
[49:59.360 --> 50:01.900]  We just want to keep pushing that number up and it's, you know...
[50:01.900 --> 50:03.040]  And we're getting closer.
[50:03.220 --> 50:03.840]  We are getting closer.
[50:08.840 --> 50:11.620]  We're on the fence about this who are thinking that, well, should I call?
[50:11.740 --> 50:12.140]  Shouldn't I call?
[50:12.540 --> 50:14.200]  You feel really good after calling.
[50:14.340 --> 50:14.780]  You really do.
[50:14.860 --> 50:15.740]  Because I've done this myself.
[50:15.960 --> 50:17.040]  In fact, I think most of us have.
[50:18.280 --> 50:21.580]  Because, you know, it's like voting for something you believe in.
[50:21.740 --> 50:23.480]  I know that doesn't happen very often at the polls.
[50:23.900 --> 50:25.280]  But it does happen occasionally.
[50:25.340 --> 50:30.480]  And when you vote for something that you believe can make a difference, you feel like, you know, you've done your part.
[50:30.480 --> 50:31.960]  And there's no better feeling than that.
[50:32.680 --> 50:35.620]  It also doesn't take very long, too, if you call in.
[50:35.620 --> 50:41.880]  You simply give us your statistics, your name, your credit card number, if you have one, etc.
[50:42.480 --> 50:43.740]  And it's done like that.
[50:43.840 --> 50:46.740]  And the people on the other side are really friendly and fun to deal with.
[50:46.860 --> 50:48.380]  212-209-2950.
[50:49.220 --> 50:50.220]  And look at that.
[50:50.360 --> 50:50.780]  It's completely...
[50:50.780 --> 50:51.500]  A horrible accident.
[50:51.680 --> 50:52.540]  What happened to the calculator?
[50:52.620 --> 50:54.740]  It did go to 3020.
[50:54.940 --> 50:59.700]  It does look like it says 3020, but it also looks like the LCD on the calculator has burned out.
[50:59.800 --> 51:01.240]  Well, we've managed to hack that, too.
[51:01.360 --> 51:01.640]  Uh-oh.
[51:01.640 --> 51:05.860]  Well, okay, so you see, we've reached one hurdle, and right away we're presented with another one.
[51:06.200 --> 51:07.500]  Now I guess we need a new calculator.
[51:07.620 --> 51:10.500]  Yeah, so our goals are now higher.
[51:11.040 --> 51:11.380]  All right.
[51:11.500 --> 51:13.600]  Well, again, keep those calls coming in.
[51:13.640 --> 51:15.020]  212-209-2950.
[51:15.220 --> 51:22.960]  Just to run down the pledges, for a pledge of $125, you'll get the video CDs from H2K2.
[51:22.960 --> 51:31.900]  A total of 8 video CDs featuring people like Jello Biafra, Aaron McGruder, and Mark Hosler from Negative Land, as well as such luminaries as Bernie S.
[51:32.160 --> 51:32.900]  The Mentor.
[51:32.980 --> 51:37.880]  The Mentor, and Shapeshifter, and all kinds of other people talking about various hacking issues.
[51:38.400 --> 51:41.280]  Um, and, um, that's for a pledge of $125.
[51:41.380 --> 51:46.500]  You'll also get a, a, an off-the-hook t-shirt, which, um, which are very cool to wear.
[51:46.680 --> 51:48.140]  I say that from personal experience.
[51:48.680 --> 52:02.800]  Uh, for a pledge of $75, you'll get a copy of Freedom Downtime, our two-hour documentary on the hacker world, and Kevin Mitnick, and the Free Kevin Movement, as well as a 2600 baseball cap, which, um, will definitely earn you respect in whatever scene you happen to be in.
[52:03.320 --> 52:04.580]  They're good for all kinds of things.
[52:05.300 --> 52:08.300]  Uh, and also, in addition, you'll get the off-the-hook t-shirt.
[52:08.400 --> 52:09.540]  You can't avoid the off-the-hook t-shirt.
[52:09.600 --> 52:10.500]  You're going to get that, all right?
[52:10.520 --> 52:11.020]  No matter what.
[52:11.440 --> 52:15.900]  You pledge $50 or more, you're going to get an off-the-hook t-shirt, and there's just no, no persuading us otherwise.
[52:16.240 --> 52:16.720]  Extra large.
[52:16.780 --> 52:19.680]  Put an avant-garde phrase to have on your t-shirt these days, too.
[52:20.360 --> 52:23.460]  Um, an avant-garde phrase on a, oh, you mean the phrase off-the-hook?
[52:23.580 --> 52:24.360]  Yeah, absolutely.
[52:24.560 --> 52:24.980]  That's true.
[52:25.160 --> 52:25.600]  That's true.
[52:25.980 --> 52:27.060]  We were ahead of the curve.
[52:27.200 --> 52:27.900]  We certainly were.
[52:27.980 --> 52:29.080]  We had it before MTV had it.
[52:30.020 --> 52:30.480]  All right.
[52:30.480 --> 52:32.880]  I hope they fixed that, because it's very hard to read.
[52:33.120 --> 52:34.120]  Can they hear us in there?
[52:34.120 --> 52:37.780]  Maybe they don't know that the calculator isn't lighting up like it used to.
[52:38.120 --> 52:51.900]  You see, the high-tech solution we have here, folks, is for us to see how much money we've raised, we have a little calculator underneath a closed-circuit camera in another room, and somebody types in the number, and then it changes, and we see over the camera what the number is.
[52:52.100 --> 52:52.900]  Ah, there's some more light.
[52:53.100 --> 52:53.980]  They're readjusting.
[52:53.980 --> 52:54.240]  Oh, okay.
[52:54.300 --> 52:55.000]  The light's back on.
[52:55.140 --> 52:55.360]  All right.
[52:55.420 --> 52:55.680]  You know what?
[52:55.680 --> 52:57.160]  I think there's a light just shining down on it.
[52:57.220 --> 52:57.620]  That's what it must be.
[52:57.620 --> 52:58.060]  Yeah, that's what it is.
[52:58.120 --> 52:59.040]  Someone knocked the light.
[52:59.160 --> 52:59.960]  Someone knocked the light.
[52:59.960 --> 53:00.480]  Thank you.
[53:00.680 --> 53:01.900]  There's so much commotion down there.
[53:02.120 --> 53:06.500]  So much commotion that things are being knocked to the floor, and that's, you know, we like to see commotion.
[53:07.380 --> 53:11.200]  All right, 212-209-2950 is our pledge line.
[53:11.280 --> 53:12.080]  Should we take a phone call?
[53:12.140 --> 53:12.360]  We should.
[53:12.520 --> 53:12.800]  We promise.
[53:12.940 --> 53:14.960]  2-900 is the phone-in line.
[53:15.140 --> 53:21.080]  If you haven't called in to pledge, though, we ask that you call that other number first, because, you know, that's a limited-time thing.
[53:21.200 --> 53:22.440]  In 10 minutes, that's going to be all over.
[53:22.840 --> 53:24.080]  So we'd like to hear from...
[53:24.080 --> 53:25.760]  Quite frankly, they're more friendly than we are.
[53:26.080 --> 53:27.040]  Who's more friendly than we are?
[53:27.080 --> 53:27.660]  The volunteers.
[53:28.060 --> 53:28.480]  Oh, that's true.
[53:28.600 --> 53:29.200]  Speak for yourself.
[53:29.960 --> 53:30.520]  And good evening.
[53:30.640 --> 53:31.000]  You're on the air.
[53:31.920 --> 53:35.080]  Hello, this is Tom Ford calling from Direct Satellite.
[53:35.360 --> 53:38.380]  Now, why is it the first time that we take a phone call?
[53:38.380 --> 53:39.400]  It's a commercial.
[53:39.580 --> 53:40.700]  You see, this is the kind of thing that can happen.
[53:41.780 --> 53:42.520]  You want me to try?
[53:42.540 --> 53:44.240]  And didn't I put this number on the do-not-call list?
[53:44.420 --> 53:45.420]  Didn't I do that already?
[53:45.580 --> 53:46.140]  I thought so.
[53:46.860 --> 53:47.760]  All right, let's try over here.
[53:47.880 --> 53:48.780]  I'll bet I know where it is, too.
[53:48.820 --> 53:49.080]  Good evening.
[53:49.080 --> 53:49.540]  You're on the air.
[53:49.780 --> 53:50.440]  Oh, no, it wasn't.
[53:50.660 --> 53:51.800]  That's actually better than what I thought.
[53:51.800 --> 53:56.600]  But, okay, well, hopefully we're getting better calls on the pledge line.
[53:56.720 --> 53:59.240]  212-209-2950.
[53:59.560 --> 54:00.240]  Oh, you know what?
[54:00.240 --> 54:00.800]  We lost Bernie.
[54:00.900 --> 54:01.220]  We did.
[54:01.400 --> 54:02.220]  Maybe he's back here.
[54:02.880 --> 54:05.660]  Bernie, could you call that number again that I gave you?
[54:05.740 --> 54:06.780]  I gave you a special number.
[54:06.880 --> 54:07.600]  Call that number back.
[54:07.600 --> 54:08.040]  I'm sorry.
[54:08.180 --> 54:09.060]  I'm sorry I disconnected you.
[54:09.060 --> 54:10.120]  I pressed the wrong button.
[54:10.860 --> 54:11.840]  Boy, what an idiot.
[54:13.140 --> 54:15.220]  212-209-2950 is our pledge line.
[54:15.300 --> 54:16.300]  We're up to $3,020.
[54:17.280 --> 54:23.180]  And we'd like to keep that number going up in the time we have remaining, which is not very much time at all.
[54:23.520 --> 54:24.180]  And good evening.
[54:24.320 --> 54:24.740]  You're on the air.
[54:26.180 --> 54:26.940]  You talking to me?
[54:27.180 --> 54:27.540]  Speak up.
[54:27.540 --> 54:27.920]  Yes, we are.
[54:28.260 --> 54:29.240]  Oh, oh, okay.
[54:29.920 --> 54:31.020]  I got in pretty quick.
[54:32.000 --> 54:33.700]  I just made a pledge, by the way.
[54:33.800 --> 54:34.480]  Well, thank you so much.
[54:34.680 --> 54:35.260]  I'm removing my membership.
[54:35.500 --> 54:36.320]  Thank you very much.
[54:36.480 --> 54:43.920]  And I heard you read the article about the young man in England who said that someone, took over his computer remotely.
[54:44.220 --> 54:49.080]  And I recently had a problem where someone was running a sex website off of my computer.
[54:49.280 --> 54:49.600]  Oh, dear.
[54:49.680 --> 54:50.180]  How'd that happen?
[54:51.020 --> 54:59.140]  They used some Trojans and some worms, and they managed to get some passwords off my server, and they were running it.
[54:59.180 --> 55:01.040]  They even set up accounts.
[55:01.900 --> 55:06.060]  And I got some software, antivirus, and a firewall.
[55:06.060 --> 55:09.500]  That's helping me now, but it's definitely possible.
[55:09.500 --> 55:10.800]  I experienced that.
[55:10.800 --> 55:16.920]  And when I would boot the machine up, I found it because I'd go into Task Manager, and I would monitor the things that are loading up.
[55:17.060 --> 55:21.900]  And I kept seeing this sex thing in Project One loading up and then disappearing, you know?
[55:22.000 --> 55:22.480]  Oh, boy.
[55:22.700 --> 55:29.900]  And the software that they used was able to X-Tray and some other T-Kids and all these things.
[55:30.020 --> 55:31.140]  I went on the Internet and...
[55:31.140 --> 55:35.460]  Well, were you able to purge your computer of all this...
[55:35.460 --> 55:38.220]  I had to format the drive.
[55:38.420 --> 55:40.660]  I had to do the whole thing over, re-image it.
[55:41.460 --> 55:43.580]  Well, I mean, how do you feel after having something like that happen to you?
[55:43.940 --> 55:45.660]  Oh, man, I felt violated.
[55:45.820 --> 55:48.000]  I felt like I was, you know, raped physically.
[55:48.440 --> 55:50.660]  You know, someone violated my privacy.
[55:50.660 --> 55:57.180]  Yeah, it might be a bit of a stretch, but definitely a violation of some sort going on there.
[55:57.380 --> 56:00.300]  I have a very big concern about these cookies now, you know?
[56:00.340 --> 56:06.360]  Now that I have the firewall and someone's always trying to attack my porch, it's just driving me crazy.
[56:06.540 --> 56:08.120]  The Internet is a dangerous place, my friend.
[56:08.800 --> 56:09.200]  Yes, it is.
[56:09.220 --> 56:10.040]  You have to be very careful.
[56:10.280 --> 56:11.080]  Block your ports.
[56:11.400 --> 56:11.760]  All right.
[56:12.820 --> 56:14.660]  And good advice for anybody.
[56:14.660 --> 56:18.200]  Thanks for your support, thanks for your pledge, and thanks for your comments and thoughts.
[56:18.400 --> 56:22.100]  And please keep listening over the years to come, which I'm sure we'll be here for.
[56:22.700 --> 56:25.460]  And let's see if we can fit in another phone call.
[56:25.620 --> 56:26.380]  Let's try this one over here.
[56:26.440 --> 56:26.760]  Good evening.
[56:26.920 --> 56:27.520]  You're on the air.
[56:28.560 --> 56:29.100]  Go ahead.
[56:29.900 --> 56:30.460]  Hey there.
[56:30.520 --> 56:31.420]  It's Cheshire in Florida.
[56:31.840 --> 56:32.700]  Cheshire in Florida.
[56:33.000 --> 56:33.360]  Wow.
[56:33.920 --> 56:34.660]  How are you doing, man?
[56:34.800 --> 56:36.880]  That's amazing that we're hearing from you.
[56:38.500 --> 56:41.820]  Well, the problem down here is that we've got a little rake case coming up.
[56:41.960 --> 56:42.280]  Uh-huh.
[56:42.840 --> 56:47.060]  And there's a circus going around the state called the Public Service Commission hearing.
[56:47.420 --> 56:47.640]  Okay.
[56:47.800 --> 56:49.760]  Can you sum this up in two minutes or less?
[56:51.080 --> 56:58.100]  Basically, they want to raise intrastate rates, or lower intrastate rates, but in the lowering process, raise local rates.
[56:58.280 --> 56:58.560]  Uh-huh.
[56:58.700 --> 57:04.540]  I'm saying let's lower the intrastate rates and raise the interstate rates, but you have to go to the FCC for that.
[57:06.160 --> 57:20.060]  People should contact their local Public Service Commission and tell them to get in touch the Florida Commission about stabilizing the rates, a rate parity between intrastate access rates and interstate access rates.
[57:20.580 --> 57:27.020]  They can contact me by looking up spaceyideas.com slash rates.
[57:27.440 --> 57:34.700]  Spacey is S-P-A-C-E-Y ideas dot com slash rates.
[57:34.700 --> 57:37.800]  My roommate, Ozzy, has a thing going on.
[57:38.200 --> 57:49.420]  There are some web links there where they can find their local commission by going to the website for NARUC, the National Association of Regulatory Utility Commissioners, which has a convention coming up next month in Atlanta.
[57:49.980 --> 57:51.940]  So, the commissioners will be getting together.
[57:52.440 --> 57:53.820]  Let's give them something to talk about.
[57:54.320 --> 57:54.780]  All right.
[57:54.820 --> 57:55.980]  And, Cheshire, it's great hearing from you.
[57:56.100 --> 57:59.960]  Cheshire, of course, is one of the former editors of TAP Magazine.
[58:00.160 --> 58:03.760]  He's been involved in the phone freak and hacker scene for many years now.
[58:04.000 --> 58:09.340]  And you are also a speaker at H2K2, where we've been featuring talks from...
[58:09.340 --> 58:09.980]  I don't know if you...
[58:09.980 --> 58:11.720]  Are you aware we're doing a fundraiser tonight, Cheshire?
[58:12.220 --> 58:13.220]  I was not aware.
[58:13.380 --> 58:14.920]  Oh, well, yes, you're calling from Florida.
[58:15.620 --> 58:17.780]  And, yes, we are doing a special fundraiser.
[58:17.860 --> 58:19.420]  That's why we're on for that extra hour tonight.
[58:20.440 --> 58:23.260]  And we're trying to get people to call in, support the station.
[58:23.400 --> 58:29.600]  And we're offering some video CDs from the H2K2 conference, which you were at.
[58:30.220 --> 58:30.940]  Yes, it was.
[58:31.300 --> 58:35.980]  And my talk on direct resistance is up as one of the MP3s from the conference.
[58:36.420 --> 58:37.000]  Okay, yeah.
[58:37.060 --> 58:40.720]  And all the MP3s are going to be up on our website, too, hopefully within the next week or two.
[58:40.720 --> 58:42.580]  So you'll be able to hear the audio as well.
[58:43.440 --> 58:47.380]  But hopefully we'll see you at the next conference, which we're trying to make happen next year.
[58:47.800 --> 58:48.300]  Oh, good.
[58:48.520 --> 58:48.720]  Yeah.
[58:48.940 --> 58:49.820]  It's so much fun.
[58:49.940 --> 58:54.200]  Yeah, I mean, they're so educational and so much fun to, you know, to share experiences with.
[58:55.360 --> 58:56.800]  I have a good time to go.
[58:57.380 --> 58:59.940]  I'm not sure what you said, but I think you said you had fun.
[59:00.920 --> 59:02.840]  I always have fun at the HOPE conferences.
[59:03.120 --> 59:03.700]  Well, that's good.
[59:03.760 --> 59:04.180]  That's good.
[59:04.800 --> 59:06.200]  Well, Cheshire, it's great hearing from you again.
[59:07.040 --> 59:07.620]  Same here.
[59:07.840 --> 59:08.180]  All right.
[59:08.320 --> 59:09.780]  And good luck with your fight there.
[59:10.360 --> 59:11.060]  Thanks a lot.
[59:11.280 --> 59:11.520]  All right.
[59:11.560 --> 59:11.940]  You're seeing you.
[59:12.360 --> 59:12.760]  All right.
[59:13.020 --> 59:13.860]  Cheshire Catalyst there.
[59:14.740 --> 59:21.040]  And, yes, 212-209-2950 is our phone number to call in for pledges.
[59:21.160 --> 59:22.180]  We're just about out of time here.
[59:22.380 --> 59:23.480]  Mike, you have some more people to thank?
[59:23.700 --> 59:26.420]  Just three more people who will let us read their names.
[59:26.440 --> 59:28.860]  We have Eric from Bolton, Ontario, Canada.
[59:28.940 --> 59:29.340]  Oh, wow.
[59:30.640 --> 59:33.220]  Brother Bill and KJ from Lake Grove, New York.
[59:33.280 --> 59:33.980]  Hey, I know them.
[59:34.340 --> 59:34.620]  Oh.
[59:34.880 --> 59:35.560]  Those are good folk.
[59:35.720 --> 59:36.340]  They're good folk.
[59:36.340 --> 59:37.640]  And we thank them for pledging.
[59:37.740 --> 59:38.420]  Thank you so much.
[59:38.960 --> 59:40.340]  And Vincent from Brooklyn.
[59:41.320 --> 59:41.580]  Okay.
[59:42.160 --> 59:43.400]  Thanks, Vincent from Brooklyn.
[59:43.560 --> 59:44.200]  And everybody else.
[59:44.200 --> 59:45.640]  Who's also doubtless good folk.
[59:45.840 --> 59:49.360]  And if we haven't gotten to your name, it's because it's held up in the queue.
[59:49.520 --> 59:52.240]  We're up to $3,145, which is really good.
[59:52.300 --> 59:54.240]  I'm very happy with the response we've gotten tonight.
[59:54.640 --> 59:57.240]  And hopefully this is a good sign for the radio station in general.
[59:57.700 --> 01:00:00.640]  Certainly it's good to hear from all our listeners like this.
[01:00:01.220 --> 01:00:05.440]  We'll be off until November, in all likelihood.
[01:00:05.780 --> 01:00:07.100]  We're definitely not on next week.
[01:00:07.200 --> 01:00:08.780]  And in all likelihood, we won't be on in two weeks.
[01:00:08.800 --> 01:00:12.840]  If we are, we'll post an announcement on the website, www.2600.com.
[01:00:13.540 --> 01:00:17.860]  And otherwise, we'll be on again three weeks from tonight.
[01:00:20.220 --> 01:00:28.660]  So, until then, I guess you'll just have to keep awake and send us updates at OTH at 2600.com.
[01:00:29.940 --> 01:00:33.220]  And we'll talk about whatever happens between now and the next time we're on the air.
[01:00:33.420 --> 01:00:35.220]  Again, thanks so much to everybody who called in to pledge.
[01:00:35.360 --> 01:00:37.100]  If you still want to call in, you have a few minutes.
[01:00:37.840 --> 01:00:39.300]  212-209-2950.
[01:00:39.920 --> 01:00:42.760]  And stay tuned to WBAI throughout this whole period.
[01:00:43.700 --> 01:00:45.400]  Keep this place alive.
[01:00:46.220 --> 01:00:49.120]  Because without it, we're definitely going to be losing something.
[01:00:49.300 --> 01:00:49.520]  Good night.
[01:03:34.240 --> 01:03:38.480]  Ladies and gentlemen, it's star time at the Apollo Theater.
[01:03:38.480 --> 01:03:40.180]  Million dollar seller.
[01:03:40.360 --> 01:03:41.500]  Please, please, please.
[01:03:41.800 --> 01:03:43.220]  And this is a man's world.
[01:03:43.580 --> 01:03:46.900]  Most constructive tune of 1966, Don't Be a Dropper.
[01:03:48.000 --> 01:03:50.480]  Everybody, the hardest working man in show business.
[01:03:50.720 --> 01:03:52.620]  James Brown, ladies and gentlemen.
[01:03:57.380 --> 01:04:03.080]  James Joe Brown, Jr. is probably the most influential African-American singer in the last four decades.
[01:04:03.080 --> 01:04:11.640]  As a songwriter, producer, performer, entrepreneur, and civil rights activist, James Brown tried a path many have followed.
[01:04:11.960 --> 01:04:15.060]  And his influence on today's music is beyond question.
[01:04:15.320 --> 01:04:18.900]  It's literally in the groove, thanks to the magic of sampling.
[01:04:18.900 --> 01:04:32.520]  Join the Midnight Ravers on Friday, October 17th, 2003, on WBAI in New York, 99.5 FM, from 12 midnight to 3 o'clock a.m.
[01:04:32.660 --> 01:04:35.240]  As we present Soul Power.
[01:04:35.820 --> 01:04:41.660]  So remember, that's Friday, October 17th, from 12 midnight to 3 a.m.
[01:04:41.660 --> 01:04:43.960]  It's going to be raver terrific.
[01:04:44.540 --> 01:04:49.000]  The Midnight Ravers, where every show is a special.