[00:04.080 --> 00:08.920]  Equal Time for Freethought, Sundays, 6.30 to 7 p.m.
[00:09.200 --> 00:12.760]  on WBAI 99.5 FM.
[00:13.020 --> 00:17.560]  News, views, issues, and culture from the free-thinking perspective.
[00:18.160 --> 00:22.420]  Atheists, agnostics, humanists, skeptics, and others.
[00:22.920 --> 00:33.300]  As the corporate media and mainstream politics are sliding down the slope of born-again public piety, tune in to Equal Time for Freethought, Sundays at 6.30 p.m.
[00:33.380 --> 00:42.700]  on WBAI for a refreshing alternative with reason, science, and secular ethics, but without religion or other supernatural beliefs.
[00:42.980 --> 00:44.220]  Free your mind.
[00:44.480 --> 00:47.480]  Focus on human needs and interests in the here and now.
[00:47.680 --> 00:49.240]  There is nothing else.
[00:55.070 --> 00:57.590]  And this is radio station WBAI in New York.
[00:57.810 --> 01:00.290]  The time is 7 o'clock time for Off the Hook.
[01:05.560 --> 01:09.980]  The telephone keeps ringing, so I ripped it off the wall.
[01:11.220 --> 01:12.980]  I cut myself while shaving.
[01:13.580 --> 01:15.480]  Now I can't make a call.
[01:16.380 --> 01:18.320]  We couldn't get much worse.
[01:19.080 --> 01:20.860]  But if they could, they would.
[01:21.120 --> 01:23.780]  Bomb-Dilly-bomb for the best expect from worst.
[01:24.480 --> 01:26.280]  I hope that's understood.
[01:26.580 --> 01:27.380]  Bomb-Dilly-bomb!
[02:57.860 --> 02:58.780]  And good evening, everybody.
[02:59.060 --> 02:59.800]  Good evening, everybody.
[02:59.920 --> 03:01.120]  If I can get the words out of my mouth.
[03:01.120 --> 03:02.260]  This is Off the Hook.
[03:02.380 --> 03:05.040]  Emmanuel Goldstein here with you for the next hour or so.
[03:05.360 --> 03:07.020]  Joined with a full cast of characters tonight.
[03:07.380 --> 03:08.140]  Jeff, how are you doing?
[03:08.140 --> 03:08.940]  Good, how are you?
[03:09.380 --> 03:12.380]  Okay, and we have Mike and Jim.
[03:12.460 --> 03:12.580]  Hi.
[03:12.860 --> 03:13.000]  Hey.
[03:14.000 --> 03:19.000]  Brett, Hank, Leo, all those great people here for a special show tonight.
[03:20.120 --> 03:22.200]  Special regularly scheduled show of one hour.
[03:22.380 --> 03:23.460]  And of course, Bernie on the phone.
[03:23.580 --> 03:24.820]  Sorry, I did forget you down there in Philadelphia.
[03:25.340 --> 03:25.620]  Hello.
[03:25.960 --> 03:26.300]  How you doing?
[03:27.480 --> 03:28.240]  Standing out in the cold.
[03:28.280 --> 03:29.140]  I can barely hear you over the music.
[03:29.420 --> 03:30.500]  You can barely hear me over the music?
[03:30.560 --> 03:31.860]  Well, the music's important for the theme.
[03:32.960 --> 03:34.340]  The theme is the pulse of life.
[03:34.460 --> 03:36.060]  Oh, it's coming through louder on the phone than on the radio.
[03:36.260 --> 03:36.520]  Really?
[03:38.380 --> 03:40.760]  Well, it's coming through pretty loud on the radio as well, but...
[03:41.740 --> 03:44.700]  Yeah, well, we had some trouble with the CD players, and I think...
[03:45.100 --> 03:45.960]  All right, you know what?
[03:46.000 --> 03:51.920]  We're going to turn Bernie down until we finish with the music, and then we'll do something with the music.
[03:54.440 --> 03:58.460]  In any event, this is Off the Hook, a special fundraising edition for this hour.
[03:59.860 --> 04:05.360]  And we have a real big surprise for people, something that has never been offered before, which we'll be getting to in just a moment.
[04:06.640 --> 04:09.380]  But first, let's take a look at what's been going on in the world.
[04:11.560 --> 04:13.220]  Anything particular you guys want to talk about there?
[04:14.480 --> 04:15.600]  It's been a busy week.
[04:15.940 --> 04:16.140]  Uh-huh.
[04:16.340 --> 04:17.040]  Well, tell us about it.
[04:19.800 --> 04:20.920]  Oh, you get started.
[04:21.000 --> 04:21.680]  You've got the papers.
[04:21.780 --> 04:23.480]  You mean it's been a busy week for you personally?
[04:23.700 --> 04:25.500]  Well, yeah, it's been a busy week for me personally, too.
[04:25.520 --> 04:29.840]  I meant as far as, you know, what's going on technology-wise and things like that.
[04:31.420 --> 04:32.060]  Mike, how about you?
[04:32.600 --> 04:41.480]  There was a study issued recently where a group of professionals looked at the trial program that's allowing U.S.
[04:42.000 --> 04:44.880]  military personnel to vote by computer from overseas.
[04:45.120 --> 04:45.480]  Oh, yes.
[04:45.560 --> 04:46.480]  And you know what they found?
[04:46.620 --> 04:49.400]  The system has a lot of security holes in it, and they shouldn't use it.
[04:49.500 --> 04:49.700]  Really?
[04:51.820 --> 04:52.700]  Shocking findings.
[04:52.960 --> 04:54.760]  How did they manage to find this out, though?
[04:54.880 --> 04:56.400]  I mean, they've actually studied the system?
[05:02.060 --> 05:03.020]  They should use this system.
[05:03.780 --> 05:06.220]  And the people in charge said, yeah, well, we don't care.
[05:07.800 --> 05:08.340]  Yes, go ahead.
[05:08.460 --> 05:13.840]  Is it a black box system, or is it open... was it open for them to look at, or did they just figure out the security holes?
[05:14.000 --> 05:18.760]  I don't know exactly what they did, but they found all these holes, and no one seems to care.
[05:19.800 --> 05:21.800]  Well, that's in keeping with the theme here.
[05:22.280 --> 05:27.200]  Nobody seems to care about what goes on in the world of technology and the future and that kind of a thing.
[05:27.420 --> 05:28.340]  Some people care.
[05:28.700 --> 05:29.420]  Well, we care.
[05:29.420 --> 05:34.420]  Well, aside from us, I mean, Bill Gates, his company is trying to keep the Internet safe for hominins.
[05:34.640 --> 05:35.380]  Yeah, you know what?
[05:35.500 --> 05:38.140]  And, uh, please, people, stop sending us a story.
[05:38.280 --> 05:41.680]  We've gotten a Microsoft story so many times in the last 24 hours.
[05:41.800 --> 05:43.580]  I think we're off to, like, 50 different submissions.
[05:44.220 --> 05:49.440]  Okay, this kid has Microsoft.com, spelled M-I-K-E-R-O-W-E-S-O-F-T.
[05:49.980 --> 05:52.780]  His name is Mike Rowe, and he's in Canada.
[05:53.040 --> 05:55.700]  And he registered the site with his name, followed by the word soft.
[05:55.800 --> 05:59.120]  And Microsoft is trying to sue him over this, which is an incredible story.
[05:59.120 --> 06:01.040]  Well, they've admitted that they were a little bit harsh.
[06:01.520 --> 06:01.640]  Have they?
[06:01.780 --> 06:02.700]  Oh, how nice of them.
[06:02.940 --> 06:04.240]  Yes, that's today's announcement.
[06:04.240 --> 06:05.580]  So did they give him his domain?
[06:05.780 --> 06:06.440]  Can he keep it?
[06:06.840 --> 06:08.600]  As of now, he still has his domain.
[06:08.840 --> 06:12.080]  He's being hosted by another company that handles large bandwidth.
[06:12.400 --> 06:17.440]  The poor kid was, uh, kicked off his first one for 250,000 hits, I think it was.
[06:17.560 --> 06:18.960]  Well, yeah, he got overly popular.
[06:19.240 --> 06:21.120]  Yeah, so, so his business will do well now.
[06:21.120 --> 06:23.920]  He was on CNN the other day, actually, according to his site.
[06:24.060 --> 06:28.540]  So it's, it's blown up to be this big thing, which isn't really, I mean...
[06:28.540 --> 06:30.480]  It's, yeah, it's a, it's a, it's a silly thing.
[06:30.580 --> 06:35.100]  Someone, you know, registering a domain name and making the company angry.
[06:35.440 --> 06:38.920]  Microsoft will spend more on lawyers than they will if they just gave the kid some money.
[06:39.220 --> 06:41.760]  You know, if they really need to have the domain, but they shouldn't.
[06:41.860 --> 06:44.640]  I think it's really funny how they offered him $10 for his name.
[06:45.080 --> 06:45.820]  Well, that's what he paid.
[06:45.960 --> 06:46.660]  Kid, we'll give you $10.
[06:46.660 --> 06:48.020]  Well, that was, that was a trick.
[06:48.340 --> 06:52.620]  When he, he came back with a counteroffer of $1,000, they said, ha-ha, $10,000.
[06:53.000 --> 06:54.400]  Right, like the Nissan case.
[06:54.620 --> 06:54.880]  Exactly.
[06:55.100 --> 07:02.820]  Exactly the same way it played out as far as somebody kind of making a mock counteroffer because their, their first offer was so ridiculous.
[07:04.020 --> 07:08.040]  So anyway, so, okay, that's, that's good news that the kid can hold on to his domain for a little while longer.
[07:08.260 --> 07:13.720]  From what I understand, though, it is, Microsoft does have to do something in order to protect their trademark.
[07:13.720 --> 07:19.060]  Otherwise, later on, the kid could say he was associated with Microsoft, and then they have...
[07:19.060 --> 07:20.600]  But his name is Mike Rowe.
[07:20.760 --> 07:21.060]  Yes.
[07:21.080 --> 07:22.420]  And it's spelled so much differently.
[07:22.640 --> 07:23.380]  It is spelled differently.
[07:23.640 --> 07:28.940]  It's, it's, it sounds the same, but nobody is going to type that into their browser without knowing what they're going to.
[07:29.120 --> 07:30.360]  They don't have, like...
[07:30.920 --> 07:31.840]  I'm sorry, go ahead, Bernie.
[07:32.060 --> 07:33.000]  It's not a trademark.
[07:33.160 --> 07:40.180]  The kid's name, M-I-K-E-R-O-W-E, even if there's a soft after it, is not trademarked by Microsoft.
[07:40.180 --> 07:40.900]  Mm-hmm.
[07:41.600 --> 07:48.480]  So, you know, homonyms, as Jim was saying, don't constitute a trademark violation.
[07:48.880 --> 07:49.520]  That's right.
[07:49.680 --> 07:50.260]  That's right.
[07:50.440 --> 07:51.840]  So, an embarrassment.
[07:51.980 --> 07:53.100]  Another embarrassment for Microsoft.
[07:54.280 --> 07:56.620]  Long may they continue to pop up.
[07:56.680 --> 07:58.920]  Oh, I have a feeling they'll be popping up for quite some time.
[08:00.620 --> 08:01.200]  Let's see.
[08:01.260 --> 08:02.060]  What else do we have here?
[08:02.280 --> 08:06.020]  A class action lawsuit filed over data shared by Northwest Airlines.
[08:06.020 --> 08:07.120]  Yes, that's right.
[08:07.220 --> 08:15.040]  Northwest Airlines is being sued on behalf of passengers who were angered that the company shared passenger data with the government after the 2001 terror attacks.
[08:15.580 --> 08:17.800]  The lawsuit was filed yesterday in U.S.
[08:17.860 --> 08:18.940]  District Court in St. Paul.
[08:19.100 --> 08:23.700]  It contends that the airline violated its own privacy policy, as well as federal and state laws with a disclosure.
[08:24.580 --> 08:26.080]  Of course, they have no comment.
[08:26.520 --> 08:34.940]  Northwest, what they basically did was they gave passenger records covering October 2001 to December 2001 to the federal government for a study on passenger screening.
[08:35.300 --> 08:41.760]  Transportation Department figures show the airline carried more than 10.9 million people during that time.
[08:42.020 --> 08:46.440]  And yet this is what the government wants them to do for everybody now.
[08:46.780 --> 08:56.240]  They want not only passenger screening information in this country, they want other countries to give them passenger screening information for any flights that fly into or even over the United States.
[08:56.240 --> 09:04.960]  And it's causing, you know, a bit of consternation with those countries that still respect privacy and individual rights and things like that.
[09:05.140 --> 09:11.920]  Well, the thing is that Northwest Airlines lied to the public and its customers because they first said they didn't do this.
[09:12.260 --> 09:19.260]  And then when the evidence was pretty clear, they admitted to doing it and said, yeah, but it didn't really violate our privacy policy.
[09:19.260 --> 09:40.800]  So I happen to be a Northwest Airlines miles club member, and I have already mailed my membership card and paperwork back to them, to their privacy officer, saying that I am not interested in being a Northwest customers airline customer anymore because you lie to your customers.
[09:40.960 --> 09:41.400]  Hey, you know what?
[09:41.400 --> 09:41.820]  That's unacceptable.
[09:42.080 --> 09:44.820]  I flew KLM, so that's Northwest.
[09:45.380 --> 09:46.080]  That's right.
[09:46.140 --> 09:47.040]  They're associated with them.
[09:47.560 --> 09:49.260]  So I guess I'm in this, too.
[09:50.520 --> 09:52.160]  We're all in that, apparently.
[09:52.520 --> 09:54.280]  Well, apparently it depends when you flew.
[09:54.460 --> 09:56.620]  It was only a rather narrow range of time.
[09:56.920 --> 09:57.180]  Right.
[09:57.280 --> 09:57.640]  It was not...
[09:57.640 --> 09:59.160]  I did not fly when they were...
[09:59.160 --> 10:01.520]  I did not fly Northwest during their time window.
[10:01.520 --> 10:02.160]  I checked it out.
[10:02.260 --> 10:06.860]  But, you know, at this point, I don't trust that airline anymore because they have lied to me.
[10:07.560 --> 10:12.240]  And, you know, when someone's determined to be a liar, then you don't know when they're going to lie again.
[10:12.400 --> 10:17.980]  Well, I asked for, like, extra, you know, those crazy, like, peanut-pretzel combination things, and they said they were out of them.
[10:18.180 --> 10:24.160]  And on the way out of the plane, you know, when you say, thanks, pilot, for, like, not crashing and things like that, I saw a whole pile of them.
[10:25.200 --> 10:26.040]  They lied to you, too.
[10:26.100 --> 10:27.020]  They lied to me, too.
[10:27.040 --> 10:28.280]  And I've never forgotten that.
[10:28.800 --> 10:32.240]  Hey, I asked for another drink, and they said they'd be back in a minute.
[10:33.640 --> 10:34.820]  Well, they were back in a minute.
[10:34.880 --> 10:35.880]  They just didn't give you the drink.
[10:36.080 --> 10:36.180]  Yeah.
[10:37.600 --> 10:43.120]  They also lied about dumping the fuel over the North Atlantic.
[10:43.160 --> 10:43.480]  Oh, that's right.
[10:43.480 --> 10:45.620]  That was a Northwest flight you were on to dump the fuel.
[10:45.820 --> 10:46.240]  That's right.
[10:46.360 --> 10:49.480]  And they said that there was a, you know, a minor problem.
[10:50.280 --> 10:58.540]  And meanwhile, I'm listening to the air-to-ground traffic with my scanner, and I found out there was a lot more going on with the landing gear.
[10:58.540 --> 10:59.520]  There was a serious problem.
[10:59.520 --> 11:09.680]  They were not telling the passengers what was really going on until about half an hour later, and after they had dumped almost all the fuel into the North Atlantic and returning back to Amsterdam.
[11:10.060 --> 11:11.120]  So, I don't know.
[11:11.180 --> 11:13.420]  I don't have a high level of trust with Northwest anymore.
[11:14.040 --> 11:18.960]  And incidentally, you can hear that report live from the airplane.
[11:19.660 --> 11:20.840]  Was it last year, Bernie?
[11:21.240 --> 11:22.340]  Yeah, it was last year.
[11:22.520 --> 11:25.120]  In fact, was it New Year's Eve?
[11:26.060 --> 11:27.300]  Somewhere after New Year's.
[11:27.400 --> 11:28.260]  You were coming back.
[11:28.260 --> 11:28.560]  Right.
[11:28.560 --> 11:30.800]  And you were supposed to be on the air with us earlier.
[11:31.280 --> 11:31.580]  That's right.
[11:31.720 --> 11:33.160]  I know you were supposed to be physically here in the studio.
[11:33.500 --> 11:34.780]  Well, no, he was supposed to be physically...
[11:34.780 --> 11:35.240]  Oh, yeah, yeah.
[11:35.300 --> 11:36.540]  He was supposed to be here in the studio.
[11:36.760 --> 11:37.400]  He was never here in the studio.
[11:37.620 --> 11:37.780]  Wow.
[11:37.880 --> 11:51.200]  And because of this landing gear problem over the North Atlantic, and they had to turn the plane around and dump all the fuel so they could land, and there's fire engines all over the place, because of that whole crazy thing, I wasn't able to make it to the studio in time.
[11:51.900 --> 11:52.480]  Excuses, excuses.
[11:52.800 --> 11:54.300]  But you can still hear it on the archives.
[11:54.560 --> 11:54.980]  That's right.
[11:55.140 --> 11:56.380]  And it's available...
[11:56.380 --> 11:56.440]  Yeah.
[11:56.440 --> 12:05.120]  And way back, on my second attempt to come back, I figured, well, at least I could be on the show, on the satellite phone from the plane.
[12:05.360 --> 12:06.780]  At $11 a minute.
[12:07.280 --> 12:07.840]  Is that what it was?
[12:07.880 --> 12:10.780]  It was like $260-some-dollars for that call.
[12:10.920 --> 12:13.120]  And I refused to pay.
[12:13.240 --> 12:17.740]  I canceled my card just before I made that call.
[12:19.040 --> 12:21.260]  And they weren't able to collect that money.
[12:21.620 --> 12:25.600]  So I fought them for weeks and weeks on it, and they finally gave up.
[12:26.440 --> 12:26.580]  Mm-hmm.
[12:27.460 --> 12:29.960]  And again, you can hear that show in our archives.
[12:30.100 --> 12:38.480]  But I guess more importantly, right now, what we're offering here at the radio station, and this is the first time we've done this, and since we have a fundraiser tonight, we decided to kick it off tonight.
[12:39.000 --> 12:49.860]  We have put together every single radio show, every single edition of Off the Hook, that we have done on these airways since 1988 up until the end of 2003.
[12:50.240 --> 12:54.000]  We've put them onto one, yes, count them, one disc.
[12:54.940 --> 12:56.020]  Yeah, how do we do this?
[12:56.140 --> 12:59.540]  It's a bunch of MP3 files on a DVD-ROM.
[13:00.000 --> 13:00.580]  That's right.
[13:00.660 --> 13:07.820]  That can be listened to on virtually any computer these days, as well as DVD players.
[13:07.880 --> 13:10.060]  Lots of DVD players are able to play MP3s.
[13:10.340 --> 13:15.180]  So no more fussing and fighting trying to download all the shows.
[13:15.180 --> 13:21.720]  You can just get them all and support the radio station at the same time by calling 212-209-2950.
[13:22.420 --> 13:25.160]  And what's the amount we're offering that for?
[13:25.320 --> 13:26.480]  We're offering that for $75.
[13:26.620 --> 13:27.840]  For a $75 pledge.
[13:28.760 --> 13:34.120]  Now, of course, you'll say, and I would say the same thing, that, well, you can get a DVD for less than $75.
[13:34.480 --> 13:35.620]  Yes, that's not the point.
[13:35.680 --> 13:45.700]  The point is you want to support the radio station, and we'd like you to support the radio station, because with the radio station, you get more radio shows, and you get more information, stories like what we're telling you.
[13:47.160 --> 13:50.340]  And you also get an off-the-hook t-shirt, which comes with that.
[13:51.320 --> 13:55.240]  Did we prorate this to find out just how much each show would cost?
[13:55.240 --> 13:57.720]  It's got to be less than any of the episodes.
[13:58.140 --> 14:02.640]  Wow, that's a mathematic assignment for somebody.
[14:02.780 --> 14:04.040]  Let's say we do 45 shows a year?
[14:04.240 --> 14:04.560]  Uh-huh.
[14:05.720 --> 14:07.920]  Well, we weren't doing 45 shows back in 1988.
[14:08.140 --> 14:08.740]  How many were you doing?
[14:08.920 --> 14:09.320]  One.
[14:09.680 --> 14:11.740]  There was one big show in 1988.
[14:11.740 --> 14:12.560]  That was the first show.
[14:12.760 --> 14:13.640]  Well, when did you go to weekly?
[14:13.640 --> 14:17.640]  We did a couple in 89, and it really started as a regular weekly show in 1991.
[14:18.760 --> 14:22.200]  So, if you go back and listen, you'll see the progression.
[14:22.200 --> 14:28.360]  Okay, 11 years of, say, 45-plus shows a year, that's at least 440 shows.
[14:28.580 --> 14:28.800]  Mm-hmm.
[14:28.900 --> 14:29.740]  That's a lot of shows.
[14:29.920 --> 14:30.380]  That is.
[14:30.440 --> 14:31.180]  It's a lot of shows.
[14:31.240 --> 14:32.300]  I can't believe we did so many.
[14:32.680 --> 14:35.900]  But you can have it, and you can have it with you at all times.
[14:35.900 --> 14:38.260]  You can listen to it in all different circumstances.
[14:39.060 --> 14:42.880]  Assuming, of course, you carry around a bag or something with DVDs in it.
[14:43.080 --> 14:44.820]  Yeah, and some people do that these days.
[14:46.260 --> 14:47.020]  Oh, you hear that?
[14:49.200 --> 14:50.960]  That's us playing music years ago.
[14:51.100 --> 14:58.440]  You know, I neglected to point out or write down what actual year we were playing in the player.
[14:58.440 --> 15:01.660]  But this shows you that, you know, you can listen to the MP3s.
[15:03.580 --> 15:13.140]  Of course, there is a slight sound degradation, yes, that you will get by streaming the way we do.
[15:13.380 --> 15:14.860]  But that's how you know it's authentic.
[15:15.080 --> 15:18.380]  That's how you know it's authentic, but it's also only really noticeable in music.
[15:18.600 --> 15:20.300]  And we don't play all that much music.
[15:20.300 --> 15:21.320]  We do mostly talking.
[15:22.100 --> 15:24.160]  And you will hear all kinds of history being made.
[15:25.080 --> 15:26.360]  All kinds of history from...
[15:26.360 --> 15:26.960]  Right on the air.
[15:27.060 --> 15:28.220]  Right on the air from...
[15:28.220 --> 15:29.400]  Oh, yeah, some of it right here in the studio.
[15:29.680 --> 15:35.140]  But you also hear the story of Fiber Optic, the story of Bernie S., the story of Kevin Mitnick, and the stories that continue on to this day.
[15:35.960 --> 15:38.140]  Again, 212-209-2950.
[15:38.260 --> 15:39.160]  Skip ahead on that a little bit.
[15:40.160 --> 15:40.480]  Oops.
[15:41.580 --> 15:42.700]  Okay, that was my mistake.
[15:43.140 --> 15:44.400]  Hang on, what button do I press here?
[15:45.320 --> 15:45.820]  There you go.
[16:00.440 --> 16:05.160]  Okay, that's us trying to make a phone call to Alba.
[16:05.160 --> 16:06.580]  It sounds like there's some Dutch in there, too.
[16:06.920 --> 16:10.360]  Now, perhaps you could explain to us non-Dutch-speaking people what's going on here.
[16:12.000 --> 16:22.320]  The operator is now taking a call to Tirana, Albania, to subscriber number 5413.
[16:23.020 --> 16:25.520]  Okay, that's a number I believe we've picked completely at random.
[16:26.900 --> 16:27.540]  A moment.
[16:29.780 --> 16:33.420]  As we know that the phone numbers in Albania are only four digits long.
[16:33.680 --> 16:38.980]  As you see, we've done all kinds of amazing things over the years, trying to call Albania when you couldn't call Albania from this country.
[16:39.340 --> 16:41.520]  In fact, I don't think you can call North Korea from this country.
[16:41.600 --> 16:42.380]  We might try that later.
[16:44.180 --> 16:45.280]  All kinds of phone adventures.
[16:45.380 --> 16:47.080]  You hear how the phone system has changed over the years.
[16:47.100 --> 16:49.540]  You hear how the world has changed over the years.
[16:50.780 --> 16:55.280]  And that's something that can be all yours by calling 2-1-2-2-0-9-2-9-5-0.
[16:56.500 --> 16:58.080]  We have no calls on the line.
[17:00.080 --> 17:00.640]  No calls.
[17:00.680 --> 17:01.340]  We have to change that.
[17:01.420 --> 17:02.220]  We have to bring more people.
[17:02.320 --> 17:05.740]  I see two calls on the line, but I think those were lit since before we got on the air.
[17:05.840 --> 17:07.320]  So I'm not sure if those are real calls.
[17:07.480 --> 17:08.920]  That sounded like R.O.P.
[17:09.420 --> 17:10.280]  It was R.O.P.
[17:10.280 --> 17:10.860]  It was R.O.P.
[17:11.280 --> 17:15.100]  Okay, let me stop this one now and see where that was from.
[17:15.100 --> 17:18.380]  That was from, that was March 1st, 1990.
[17:19.160 --> 17:19.520]  Yeah.
[17:19.800 --> 17:24.180]  And that was one of the off-the-hook shows from then.
[17:25.280 --> 17:26.920]  And we have all kinds of other shows.
[17:27.460 --> 17:31.360]  However many years worth, was it 14 years worth of shows?
[17:31.500 --> 17:32.480]  13 years worth of shows.
[17:32.760 --> 17:33.900]  No, 15 years worth of shows.
[17:34.460 --> 17:35.540]  Lots and lots of shows.
[17:35.660 --> 17:36.240]  Lots and lots of shows.
[17:37.980 --> 17:43.560]  So, yes, you can hear all of that by pledging to the radio station, 2-1-2-2-0-9-2-9-5-0.
[17:43.560 --> 17:46.960]  If you just want an off-the-hook t-shirt, though, a pledge of $50 will get you that.
[17:47.600 --> 17:48.760]  All right, we have...
[17:48.760 --> 17:49.660]  No one's wearing one.
[17:49.780 --> 17:51.360]  No one's wearing an off-the-hook t-shirt.
[17:51.880 --> 17:52.740]  I don't have one.
[17:52.860 --> 17:53.500]  We have one.
[17:54.080 --> 17:54.680]  I have mine.
[17:54.880 --> 17:56.580]  All right, well, why don't you pledge and we'll give you one.
[17:56.760 --> 17:57.000]  All right.
[17:57.120 --> 17:57.360]  All right.
[17:58.920 --> 18:05.180]  And you can wear an off-the-hook t-shirt proudly through your neighborhood and tell people that you listen to this radio show.
[18:05.380 --> 18:08.140]  And they'll know when it's on because that's written on the shirt as well.
[18:08.740 --> 18:11.360]  Hopefully they won't change our time slot because then we'd have to make new shirts.
[18:12.220 --> 18:16.060]  It's 212-209-2950 is our phone number.
[18:16.200 --> 18:16.960]  And Bernie, are you still there?
[18:17.220 --> 18:18.000]  I'm still here.
[18:18.120 --> 18:19.080]  Okay, I accidentally turned you down.
[18:19.100 --> 18:19.400]  I'm sorry.
[18:21.320 --> 18:26.060]  So, yeah, you have a lot of memories of the radio show over the past 15 years.
[18:27.260 --> 18:27.840]  I'm sorry?
[18:28.060 --> 18:31.080]  I say you have a lot of memories of the radio show over the past 15 years.
[18:31.460 --> 18:32.880]  Not always good memories.
[18:33.400 --> 18:35.760]  Well, they're all good memories because...
[18:35.760 --> 18:36.760]  Three calls on the line.
[18:36.860 --> 18:38.320]  212-209-2950.
[18:38.320 --> 18:47.520]  So, if I weren't on the show during my extended story, then, you know, it would have been a sadder day for me.
[18:47.640 --> 18:49.340]  So, they were all good memories, those shows.
[18:49.580 --> 18:53.320]  Now, for those of you who may not be regular listeners of the radio program, Bernie S.
[18:53.440 --> 18:58.140]  was in prison for nearly a year on two separate occasions related to the same incident.
[18:59.400 --> 19:16.700]  It's a long, drawn-out, sad, horrible story of injustice in this country and how people who know technology a little too well can be viewed with suspicion and hostility by the authorities and also messed up pretty good by them if they piss off the wrong people.
[19:16.960 --> 19:18.800]  And we seem to have a history of doing that around here.
[19:19.320 --> 19:21.040]  So, it's something that affects all of us.
[19:21.140 --> 19:22.140]  It affects a lot of people that we know.
[19:22.280 --> 19:24.440]  And people to this day are being affected by this.
[19:24.520 --> 19:30.060]  We've told the story of numerous people in the current day shows that are going through the same thing.
[19:30.060 --> 19:34.540]  Whether it's a little kid that says, hey, on the computer screen to his classmates and gets suspended from school.
[19:34.700 --> 19:39.320]  Whether it's Adrian Lamo facing prison for telling the New York Times about the security holes.
[19:39.500 --> 19:43.560]  Whether it's more people like Kevin and Bernie and Fiber.
[19:43.780 --> 19:45.020]  And it just goes on.
[19:45.160 --> 19:47.200]  And it unfortunately seems like it's going to continue.
[19:47.540 --> 19:50.400]  We have here at this radio station a unique voice.
[19:50.400 --> 19:54.320]  We're able to tell people who might not have heard about this otherwise.
[19:54.600 --> 19:59.040]  People just happen to be tuning in, going from Z100 to Hot 97.
[19:59.040 --> 20:01.780]  They stop by accident along the way.
[20:01.900 --> 20:03.060]  And sometimes they never leave.
[20:03.280 --> 20:08.160]  Sometimes they just hear this unique perspective on the world.
[20:08.220 --> 20:10.500]  That comes in so many different ways on this radio station.
[20:10.640 --> 20:15.700]  But in this particular hour, from 7 to 8, every Wednesday night, we talk about technology.
[20:15.700 --> 20:16.640]  We talk about hacking.
[20:16.800 --> 20:23.680]  We talk about the changes in society that are making things very, very different from when we first started doing this radio program.
[20:23.680 --> 20:28.940]  And you can hear it yourself firsthand, how things sounded back then and what things have changed.
[20:28.940 --> 20:32.860]  You might even find something very significant from the past that we've forgotten about, you know.
[20:33.000 --> 20:36.000]  And you can tell us about that by listening to these radio programs.
[20:36.120 --> 20:40.920]  I love listening to the old shows because there's just so much of interest that we forget about.
[20:40.920 --> 20:48.680]  So, 212-209-2950, pledge of $75 gets you all the shows on a DVD-ROM, which will play in your computer or on your DVD player.
[20:49.120 --> 20:53.080]  And a pledge of $50 will get you an off-the-hook T-shirt.
[20:53.280 --> 20:55.920]  And by the way, the $75 pledge will get you the T-shirt as well.
[20:56.320 --> 20:57.480]  Any pledge is welcome.
[20:57.640 --> 21:01.540]  212-209-2950 because every pledge supports the radio station.
[21:02.700 --> 21:04.360]  What do you think of the radio station?
[21:04.480 --> 21:05.780]  I mean, this is something that is important.
[21:05.780 --> 21:08.640]  50,000 watts in the middle of the FM dial in New York City.
[21:09.440 --> 21:11.440]  And you can't hear this anywhere else.
[21:11.740 --> 21:13.000]  No, you can hear it all over the place.
[21:13.460 --> 21:13.860]  Well...
[21:14.500 --> 21:15.580]  I know what you're trying to say.
[21:15.720 --> 21:21.040]  But you can hear this radio station throughout the whole tri-state area, which is pretty unbelievable.
[21:21.520 --> 21:22.080]  You know?
[21:22.700 --> 21:24.860]  We've lost another radio station in the area.
[21:24.960 --> 21:26.240]  Actually, we haven't really lost a radio station.
[21:26.340 --> 21:27.000]  It's changed formats.
[21:28.060 --> 21:38.660]  But WLIR, station 92.7, known for years for playing, you know, modern music and modern hits, I guess, or things that aren't hits yet.
[21:40.800 --> 21:41.240]  We've...
[21:41.860 --> 21:44.780]  It's turned into a different station, different format.
[21:46.160 --> 21:48.380]  And that's something that...
[21:50.120 --> 21:51.620]  That's something that...
[21:51.620 --> 21:52.820]  Unplug that phone, will you?
[21:54.260 --> 21:55.880]  That's something that...
[21:55.880 --> 21:57.760]  You can never call phones when someone's talking on the radio.
[21:57.840 --> 21:58.460]  It's so distracting.
[22:00.060 --> 22:02.060]  Yeah, I'm totally off my track now.
[22:02.060 --> 22:03.000]  W-L-I-R.
[22:03.100 --> 22:03.780]  W-L-I-R, yes.
[22:03.880 --> 22:04.760]  We lost another radio station.
[22:04.920 --> 22:14.540]  Every year, we lose a radio station to Clear Channel or to some other entity that basically takes something that's beloved to fans and makes them realize how powerless they are.
[22:14.640 --> 22:15.680]  And they are powerless.
[22:15.860 --> 22:21.300]  You know, if your favorite radio station is a commercial station on the dial someplace, it doesn't matter to them.
[22:21.300 --> 22:22.740]  They can change formats tomorrow.
[22:22.980 --> 22:23.480]  All right?
[22:23.540 --> 22:27.380]  But it does matter to us because you're the people supporting the radio station.
[22:27.400 --> 22:28.100]  You're the sponsors.
[22:28.760 --> 22:34.820]  All commercial radio cares about, and I'm sorry to be somewhat glib about this, but all they care about are the sponsors.
[22:35.420 --> 22:37.000]  They're the people that pay the bills.
[22:37.220 --> 22:37.700]  All right?
[22:37.760 --> 22:42.920]  And if they're not making enough money with the sponsors playing one particular type of music, they're going to switch to another type of music.
[22:43.040 --> 22:47.240]  Very often, they'll have the same DJs playing that other type of music, too, which is kind of crazy.
[22:47.260 --> 22:48.600]  But that's how the radio business works.
[22:49.160 --> 22:51.460]  This radio station, we're not as smooth.
[22:51.680 --> 22:51.940]  No.
[22:52.160 --> 22:53.520]  We have a lot of rough edges.
[22:53.520 --> 22:54.360]  We have conflict.
[22:54.600 --> 22:58.420]  We have all kinds of bizarre, crazy programming at times.
[22:58.580 --> 22:59.740]  And that's what makes it unique.
[22:59.860 --> 23:01.020]  That's what makes it New York.
[23:01.420 --> 23:03.000]  And that's what makes it essential.
[23:03.560 --> 23:06.480]  And the only way we're able to do that, we don't have commercials.
[23:06.540 --> 23:07.840]  We have no commercials.
[23:07.960 --> 23:11.720]  We've never had a commercial on this radio station since its inception back in 1960.
[23:13.560 --> 23:14.980]  So you're the sponsors.
[23:15.000 --> 23:16.300]  You're the people that keep it going.
[23:16.300 --> 23:17.460]  And you've done that.
[23:17.580 --> 23:20.200]  You've done that for 44 years now.
[23:20.700 --> 23:21.160]  Wow.
[23:21.980 --> 23:22.800]  That's unbelievable.
[23:22.800 --> 23:32.980]  Not only the fact that you can keep a radio station going for that long, but the fact that it's a station of this power in the middle of the commercial band, which is a rarity, in New York City.
[23:33.640 --> 23:34.520]  Think about that.
[23:34.720 --> 23:37.400]  Think about how precious this resource is.
[23:38.100 --> 23:45.720]  If this resource were to slip from our hands somehow, as it almost has several times, it would not ever be able to come back.
[23:45.880 --> 23:48.700]  You could not put a price on a station like this.
[23:48.800 --> 23:50.860]  We would never be able to obtain something of this value.
[23:51.420 --> 23:55.240]  And that's why you're so essential to the battle to keep this place going.
[23:55.460 --> 23:56.940]  212-209-2950.
[23:57.100 --> 23:58.680]  And that, I hope, is the real reason people call.
[23:58.980 --> 24:08.580]  Not just to get a DVD, not just to get a T-shirt, which are nice things that we donate to the station, but to keep the station alive and hopefully inspire a lot more people to come do radio shows here.
[24:08.580 --> 24:14.940]  You know, with commercial radio, the product that they're producing is not radio, not programming.
[24:15.220 --> 24:18.060]  The product that they sell on commercial radio is an audience.
[24:18.060 --> 24:20.740]  They're selling you when you're listening to commercial radio.
[24:21.320 --> 24:31.400]  When you're listening to WBAI, we're just here to entertain, to inform, to do all these things, but not to sell you and not to sell you anything.
[24:31.900 --> 24:32.720]  That's a good point.
[24:32.880 --> 24:38.480]  Yeah, you know, if you ever look at the advertisements in industry magazines, that's exactly what Mike said.
[24:38.580 --> 24:41.200]  They advertise the audience to the sponsors.
[24:41.500 --> 24:49.620]  They say, well, among 18 to 34 demographic, we have median income of this level listening to our station, so sell your ad on our station and we'll reach these people.
[24:49.860 --> 24:50.940]  That's all they care about.
[24:51.100 --> 24:52.560]  That is all they care about.
[24:52.560 --> 24:56.640]  And it's also, it's not radio programming, like you said.
[24:56.800 --> 24:57.680]  It's music.
[24:57.880 --> 24:58.580]  Music boxes.
[24:59.020 --> 25:00.800]  You know, computers telling you what to play.
[25:00.960 --> 25:01.920]  Computers playing it.
[25:02.020 --> 25:03.160]  You don't even need a human anymore.
[25:03.520 --> 25:13.140]  A lot of these clear channel stations, they simply have computers playing not only the music, but DJs from other cities pretending they're in your city.
[25:13.440 --> 25:14.640]  They're not even there.
[25:14.780 --> 25:16.460]  These are machines playing music.
[25:16.460 --> 25:25.820]  And, you know, I have to wonder how long is such a thing going to last when it can be duplicated so easily by, like, iTunes or anything that a user can actually run themselves.
[25:26.080 --> 25:31.340]  Why do you need a radio station playing the same music that you can get in so many other forms?
[25:31.420 --> 25:41.760]  And I think that's one of the reasons why the recording industry is so afraid of people being empowered with music, being able to, like, get their own music and not have to turn on the commercial radio and listen to the advertisements.
[25:42.120 --> 25:43.740]  They have DJ Farms.
[25:44.420 --> 25:45.300]  DJ Farms?
[25:45.520 --> 25:46.200]  DJ Farms.
[25:46.200 --> 25:47.060]  Are you making this up, Bernie?
[25:47.200 --> 25:48.060]  It sounds like something.
[25:48.360 --> 25:49.500]  No, this is really true.
[25:49.860 --> 25:52.600]  You know, you've heard of server farms or antenna farms where they have...
[25:52.600 --> 25:53.560]  Do they grow DJs?
[25:53.620 --> 25:54.140]  Is that what they do?
[25:54.260 --> 25:54.720]  Well, you would think so.
[25:54.720 --> 25:55.800]  I've actually seen them graze.
[25:56.360 --> 25:56.840]  Cloning them.
[25:57.000 --> 26:00.380]  But, no, literally, they have DJs, like Clear Channel and so forth.
[26:00.480 --> 26:01.640]  They have DJ farms.
[26:01.780 --> 26:03.620]  They're basically a building.
[26:03.960 --> 26:15.940]  And they have all these tiny soundproof rooms with the DJ sitting in each one doing shows and shifts that are broadcast to...
[26:15.940 --> 26:17.900]  To many stations across the country.
[26:18.160 --> 26:18.720]  These people have...
[26:18.720 --> 26:25.240]  These DJs, these Nick DJs, have no idea what's going on in the communities where their signal is being broadcast.
[26:25.860 --> 26:30.660]  And they're just playing songs from a playlist and really announcing what the songs are and so forth.
[26:30.660 --> 26:32.200]  It's really scary, DJ farms.
[26:33.100 --> 26:34.120]  The whole thing is scary.
[26:34.200 --> 26:36.920]  FM radio has always scared me as far as the commercial aspect of it.
[26:36.980 --> 26:41.100]  But the non-commercial aspect has a lot of potential and a lot of really good things happening.
[26:41.180 --> 26:42.960]  And that's something that I'm proud to be a part of.
[26:43.060 --> 26:45.180]  And I know everybody here shares that feeling.
[26:45.340 --> 26:46.940]  But we want you to be a part of it as well.
[26:47.040 --> 26:48.660]  212-209-2900...
[26:49.720 --> 26:51.000]  2950, rather, is our phone number.
[26:51.120 --> 26:52.840]  212-209-2950.
[26:53.680 --> 26:54.600]  Call in your pledge.
[26:54.600 --> 26:56.360]  We only do this a few times a year.
[26:56.360 --> 26:57.520]  But it's essential.
[26:57.700 --> 27:00.180]  If we didn't do this, you would hear commercials.
[27:00.180 --> 27:02.220]  And if you heard commercials, you wouldn't hear this.
[27:02.340 --> 27:02.740]  Because...
[27:03.160 --> 27:05.900]  Do you really think any company would sponsor us?
[27:06.160 --> 27:07.740]  The sponsors would not stand for it.
[27:07.800 --> 27:08.920]  No, because we're outspoken.
[27:09.100 --> 27:11.300]  We will say any company sucks.
[27:11.780 --> 27:13.440]  You know, if we have the evidence that they do.
[27:13.540 --> 27:15.160]  And usually we do have the evidence that they suck.
[27:15.620 --> 27:19.400]  So we have no qualms talking about it in those terms.
[27:19.840 --> 27:21.420]  And providing what we learn.
[27:21.540 --> 27:24.520]  If we learn something that they don't want you to know, we're going to tell you anyway.
[27:24.960 --> 27:26.460]  Because we feel you have the right to know.
[27:26.600 --> 27:28.040]  212-209-2950.
[27:28.200 --> 27:31.720]  You know, the natural sponsor for this type of show would be a cell phone company.
[27:31.900 --> 27:33.460]  And then we wouldn't be able to criticize them.
[27:33.960 --> 27:34.840]  Oh, my God.
[27:35.000 --> 27:37.160]  Yeah, can you imagine Sprint PCS sponsoring us?
[27:37.400 --> 27:38.460]  The things we said about them?
[27:39.620 --> 27:41.220]  We wouldn't be able to say them anymore.
[27:41.440 --> 27:44.420]  Bernie, have we been too nasty to Sprint PCS over the years?
[27:44.700 --> 27:46.800]  I think most of the wireless carriers suck.
[27:47.120 --> 27:48.500]  But I just have...
[27:48.500 --> 27:51.720]  You and I just happen to have a lot of bad experiences with Sprint PCS.
[27:51.720 --> 27:56.740]  But I'm sure they're not the only one who's got a lot of customer service and network problems.
[27:56.840 --> 27:57.900]  We have four calls on the line.
[27:58.000 --> 28:00.560]  Let's make that eight calls on the line.
[28:00.620 --> 28:01.080]  We can do that.
[28:01.180 --> 28:02.620]  212-209-2950.
[28:02.840 --> 28:03.920]  We're only on for an hour tonight.
[28:04.020 --> 28:05.320]  And we're not on next week.
[28:05.440 --> 28:07.480]  So we really want to hear from you.
[28:07.480 --> 28:11.560]  By the way, Bernie, speaking of experiences with cell companies, as you know, I switched...
[28:11.560 --> 28:15.760]  I kept my phone number and I switched companies from Sprint to Verizon.
[28:16.420 --> 28:19.060]  So I embarked in the portability experiment.
[28:19.060 --> 28:19.820]  And it worked great.
[28:19.980 --> 28:22.020]  You know, it was a smooth transition.
[28:22.300 --> 28:25.140]  It was something that I had no problems with at all.
[28:25.180 --> 28:26.460]  And I've been using Verizon ever since.
[28:26.840 --> 28:31.880]  And yesterday, on my way into the city, because my car is mired in the ice on the island, I had to take the train in.
[28:32.440 --> 28:38.480]  And so as I was on the phone, the train went into the tunnel going to Penn Station, and I kept my signal.
[28:38.760 --> 28:42.040]  I kept my signal the whole way, all the way up to Penn Station.
[28:42.140 --> 28:42.640]  Isn't that something?
[28:43.060 --> 28:43.400]  Cool.
[28:43.920 --> 28:44.760]  Sprint doesn't do that.
[28:44.900 --> 28:45.680]  Verizon does do that.
[28:45.740 --> 28:47.360]  So, yeah, we will say nice things occasionally.
[28:47.960 --> 28:50.780]  I'm starting to get frustrated with...
[28:50.780 --> 29:00.720]  I don't have T-Mobile personally, but I'm getting frustrated with people who do, because today I tried to call someone five, six times over the course of 20 minutes.
[29:00.720 --> 29:06.420]  And every time I was told that all the lines for T-Mobile, wherever he was, were in use.
[29:06.580 --> 29:06.740]  Really?
[29:06.880 --> 29:07.860]  So I couldn't reach him.
[29:08.140 --> 29:15.160]  And someone who was with me at the time, who was also a T-Mobile customer, said, yeah, I can't make a phone call out right now.
[29:15.460 --> 29:17.440]  Well, sometimes central offices fail.
[29:17.680 --> 29:18.400]  Things like that happen.
[29:18.520 --> 29:18.800]  But...
[29:18.800 --> 29:19.940]  Is this something you've had before?
[29:20.140 --> 29:20.720]  Is this something...
[29:20.720 --> 29:21.260]  I've had...
[29:21.260 --> 29:24.840]  It happens 50% of the time I can't reach him because of this.
[29:24.840 --> 29:26.560]  How do you know it was T-Mobile and not your carrier?
[29:26.660 --> 29:27.420]  Did it say T-Mobile?
[29:27.540 --> 29:28.120]  No, it was...
[29:28.120 --> 29:29.740]  My carrier, I could make the connection fine.
[29:29.740 --> 29:34.600]  The thing is, GSM doesn't support as many connections per tower.
[29:34.920 --> 29:38.200]  Just the standard itself, the way it's made.
[29:38.460 --> 29:41.920]  So it clogs up faster.
[29:42.260 --> 29:46.780]  So in New York, I'm sure it can clog up pretty quickly.
[29:46.920 --> 29:49.720]  You know, if you're out in rural somewhere, it's probably not a problem.
[29:49.860 --> 29:51.020]  But around here it is.
[29:51.200 --> 29:53.760]  And so there'll be times when I just keep trying...
[29:53.760 --> 29:54.420]  It was actually Mish.
[29:54.500 --> 29:55.920]  I was trying to call him to remind him.
[29:56.960 --> 29:58.880]  To remind him to come to the radio show.
[29:58.880 --> 29:59.780]  To come to the radio show, yes.
[29:59.780 --> 30:00.720]  And I don't see him here.
[30:00.780 --> 30:00.940]  No.
[30:01.280 --> 30:03.220]  So we have T-Mobile to thank for that, huh?
[30:03.260 --> 30:03.740]  Yes, yes.
[30:03.940 --> 30:05.400]  All right, T-Mobile, you suck too.
[30:05.580 --> 30:05.740]  There.
[30:06.640 --> 30:07.780]  We're not afraid to say it.
[30:07.900 --> 30:10.220]  212-209-295-O is our phone number.
[30:10.520 --> 30:12.840]  We have more calls online.
[30:13.100 --> 30:13.520]  It's good.
[30:13.620 --> 30:15.620]  They're kind of spreading all over the place, which is nice to see.
[30:16.160 --> 30:17.820]  And again, we're only on until 8 o'clock.
[30:17.820 --> 30:21.020]  So we want to get as many people calling in as possible.
[30:21.260 --> 30:30.100]  Again, we're offering the DVD-ROM of every single edition of Off the Hook ever made up until the end of 2003 because we have to stop somewhere.
[30:31.900 --> 30:35.140]  And that will play on your DVD player.
[30:35.300 --> 30:36.660]  It'll play on your computer.
[30:37.280 --> 30:40.180]  And for $50, you will get an Off the Hook T-shirt.
[30:40.300 --> 30:43.280]  And for any amount, you will get our Enduring Thanks.
[30:43.580 --> 30:45.600]  And also, you'll get the T-shirt for $75 as well.
[30:45.840 --> 30:47.480]  You know, this is really only one of...
[30:47.480 --> 30:48.840]  This is one of...
[30:48.840 --> 30:53.000]  Maybe the only station in the city where you can hear people really speak their mind.
[30:53.180 --> 30:55.280]  I mean, even the student...
[30:55.280 --> 31:02.760]  I don't know much about the other schools in the city, but at my school, the student radio station, which has a transmitter, I believe, in Times Square...
[31:02.760 --> 31:03.440]  You're talking about Columbia.
[31:03.520 --> 31:04.020]  Columbia, yeah.
[31:04.840 --> 31:06.460]  It's really not student-run.
[31:06.460 --> 31:11.280]  It's the programming, from what I've heard from people who work there, is pretty much given to them.
[31:11.440 --> 31:12.840]  And all they do is run it.
[31:13.180 --> 31:16.460]  Because it's not really things that I think college students would play in general.
[31:16.460 --> 31:18.680]  It's a lot of jazz and classical.
[31:19.000 --> 31:21.660]  And there are some people who like that, but I don't think...
[31:21.660 --> 31:23.160]  You know, that's what they're limited to.
[31:23.240 --> 31:26.160]  So people can't really go there and do what they want and play what they want.
[31:26.320 --> 31:30.240]  I don't want to diss any other non-commercial stations out there.
[31:30.380 --> 31:32.900]  But let's look at the facts, okay?
[31:32.900 --> 31:36.680]  Very few stations are in the hands of certain communities.
[31:36.780 --> 31:41.100]  And a college radio station, in my opinion, should be in the hands of the students of that college.
[31:41.360 --> 31:43.100]  There are very few instances of this.
[31:43.100 --> 31:46.380]  WMYU is one example where it is in the hands of the students.
[31:48.320 --> 31:52.680]  WFMU, a shining example of that, they're in the hands of the students even after the college went out of business.
[31:52.960 --> 31:55.360]  And now it's a community station, which is just great.
[31:56.320 --> 32:03.740]  The stations that have the best programming are the ones that remain in the hands of a wide variety of people that have a common interest.
[32:03.740 --> 32:10.760]  And WBAI is the weirdest example of that because we're not affiliated with any particular university or anything like that.
[32:10.940 --> 32:16.840]  We're a community station where people literally walk in off the street and learn radio and do some interesting things.
[32:16.960 --> 32:19.260]  And it's been going on that way ever since we started.
[32:20.380 --> 32:22.080]  It's funny that we're on Wall Street now.
[32:22.240 --> 32:23.460]  We've moved all over the city.
[32:24.300 --> 32:25.760]  One step ahead of the creditors.
[32:25.840 --> 32:26.340]  No, only kidding.
[32:27.200 --> 32:29.440]  But, you know, we've had a long and sordid history.
[32:29.480 --> 32:32.380]  And, of course, there's been conflict here and all kinds of chaos.
[32:33.020 --> 32:34.320]  But that's part of democracy.
[32:34.500 --> 32:35.380]  That's part of...
[32:35.380 --> 32:36.420]  We're up to $275.
[32:36.720 --> 32:42.940]  Okay, hopefully these calls on the line will bring it well beyond that because my personal goal is to make it to about $1,500 this hour.
[32:43.360 --> 32:49.480]  And we're halfway through the hour, so hopefully people will call in and make that dream a reality.
[32:49.660 --> 32:50.300]  And you know what?
[32:50.300 --> 32:53.320]  If you call and pledge money, then we won't have to keep asking you for money.
[32:53.480 --> 32:55.500]  And we can talk about more interesting things.
[32:55.500 --> 32:57.660]  And maybe we can oil this chair that I'm on.
[32:57.800 --> 33:02.540]  You know, they put the squeaky chair behind the microphone so you hear these horrible noises every time I move.
[33:04.120 --> 33:05.100]  We're trying to save oil.
[33:05.240 --> 33:06.880]  I'll bring in a can of oil next week myself.
[33:07.000 --> 33:09.040]  Actually, I'm not on next week, but I'll bring in the can of oil anyway.
[33:09.540 --> 33:10.700]  Let's people know it's a live show.
[33:11.060 --> 33:14.440]  That's true because you'd never hear this on tape, although you probably would.
[33:14.580 --> 33:16.000]  Or from some DJ farm.
[33:16.120 --> 33:18.040]  The point is we focus on the important things.
[33:18.120 --> 33:24.560]  Yes, we could sound very slick and put compression on our voices, sound like the voice of God, you know, that kind of thing they do on commercial radio.
[33:24.560 --> 33:26.100]  Turn to commercial radio, you'll see.
[33:28.060 --> 33:32.460]  Very tight breaks, you know, the news cuts in at a certain time if they even have news.
[33:32.640 --> 33:35.840]  Commercials, of course, have to be aired without any kind of interruption whatsoever.
[33:36.700 --> 33:38.800]  Here, it's not the same.
[33:38.860 --> 33:42.820]  Here, you hear basically information and also what you hear.
[33:43.000 --> 33:43.580]  You know what else you hear?
[33:43.660 --> 33:44.400]  You hear yourself.
[33:44.560 --> 33:45.180]  You hear voices.
[33:45.400 --> 33:45.940]  You hear...
[33:46.500 --> 33:54.380]  Well, yeah, some of us hear voices all the time, but what I mean is you hear voices of the listeners and sometimes your own voice if you call us and express your opinion.
[33:54.520 --> 33:55.920]  What other place can offer you that?
[33:56.000 --> 34:01.220]  What other place has that door open where you can call in and ask your questions, state your opinions?
[34:01.860 --> 34:10.020]  I mean, remember the show a few weeks ago where we were talking about transmitting radio signals in airplanes and whether or not it's legal or not.
[34:10.080 --> 34:17.580]  And we had an engineer from Boeing call us and lecture us on just what was right and what was not right and why they have these regulations and things like that.
[34:17.620 --> 34:18.740]  And it's great to hear that.
[34:18.840 --> 34:25.400]  You know, we can talk about virtually any subject and somebody out there is going to know something about it and call us and express their opinion.
[34:25.400 --> 34:27.860]  And that's so essential and that's so rare.
[34:28.100 --> 34:29.360]  It's a very sad thing that it's rare.
[34:30.220 --> 34:34.900]  Continuing, though, with non-commercial radio, we have some examples of it in New York City.
[34:35.020 --> 34:41.060]  We have a lot of stations, though, and this also is throughout the country, that have been taken over by National Public Radio.
[34:41.800 --> 34:46.220]  Fine organization, nice programming, but it's not community radio.
[34:46.220 --> 34:47.400]  It's not local radio.
[34:47.640 --> 34:49.900]  It's a satellite feed most of the time.
[34:49.900 --> 34:58.560]  And when it's not a satellite feed, it's just music, whether it's classical music or jazz, which is also fine, but it's not the same thing as what this place is.
[34:58.760 --> 35:00.580]  And that's something very important to remember.
[35:00.580 --> 35:02.960]  If you say, well, you know, I support this non-commercial station.
[35:03.080 --> 35:03.760]  That should be good enough.
[35:04.540 --> 35:06.960]  It's really not because it's not the same entity.
[35:07.200 --> 35:08.320]  It never will be.
[35:08.500 --> 35:09.620]  This station is unique.
[35:09.620 --> 35:11.480]  It's a voice in the wilderness, as it were.
[35:12.780 --> 35:15.340]  And you just won't find it in very many cities.
[35:16.920 --> 35:18.400]  212-209-2950.
[35:18.400 --> 35:19.820]  So, Leo, are you joining us?
[35:19.960 --> 35:22.980]  I just want to mention that we should probably mention the premiums again.
[35:23.640 --> 35:23.700]  Okay.
[35:23.700 --> 35:24.740]  For those who just tuned in.
[35:25.160 --> 35:26.400]  Would you like to mention the premiums?
[35:27.400 --> 35:29.240]  Off the Hook t-shirt for 50 bucks.
[35:29.500 --> 35:38.780]  And Off the Hook TVD, which has all the previous shows of Off the Hook, starting from 1988 till the end of January 2003.
[35:39.120 --> 35:40.340]  End of December 2003.
[35:40.520 --> 35:41.540]  Oh, December 2003.
[35:41.760 --> 35:41.860]  Yes.
[35:41.860 --> 35:42.100]  I'm sorry.
[35:42.500 --> 35:44.460]  And that's $75.
[35:44.980 --> 35:46.140]  Is that with the t-shirt as well?
[35:46.140 --> 35:47.320]  Yes, the t-shirt is included with that.
[35:47.320 --> 35:49.140]  And any pledge, of course, is welcome.
[35:49.340 --> 35:54.240]  And you can pledge more than that and get multiple copies or give them as gifts, things like that.
[35:54.400 --> 35:55.680]  It's a great project.
[35:55.960 --> 35:58.520]  Or just have your donation used to benefit the radio station.
[35:58.680 --> 35:59.060]  That's true.
[35:59.300 --> 36:00.280]  That's what it's really all about.
[36:00.300 --> 36:03.020]  I think people should be calling in mostly for that reason.
[36:03.120 --> 36:06.660]  There are people here, and I somewhat agree with them, who think that we shouldn't have premiums.
[36:06.660 --> 36:10.140]  We should just have straight out, support the radio station.
[36:10.260 --> 36:11.080]  This is what it's all about.
[36:11.280 --> 36:15.120]  Support the radio station based on its programming, based on the particular program you're hearing now.
[36:15.640 --> 36:18.780]  And I'd like to somewhat agree with that.
[36:19.000 --> 36:23.560]  I'm happy to donate things to the station to give out to listeners as a way of saying thanks.
[36:24.200 --> 36:27.760]  But the real reason that you're calling is to support the radio station.
[36:27.860 --> 36:41.860]  And I'd like for people, if they have ever gotten anything out of this radio program, if they have ever found themselves racing home or staying in their car to listen to the radio to hear this program, if they've had it affect their lives by teaching them something,
[36:41.960 --> 36:49.920]  by making them react differently in a certain situation, or if you've told other people about the radio program, why not show some support and keep it going?
[36:49.920 --> 36:51.100]  Because it's an investment.
[36:51.320 --> 36:52.320]  It's an investment in our future.
[36:52.620 --> 36:54.480]  212-209-2950.
[36:54.740 --> 36:55.620]  Every little bit counts.
[36:55.940 --> 36:59.800]  Again, we're only on for about another 25 minutes, so please show your support.
[36:59.900 --> 37:01.280]  212-209-2950.
[37:01.280 --> 37:15.860]  I think it's a good idea that we actually have the premiums, because I think if anyone does get, let's say the number of callers that have called in and actually been on the air, they would want to have a copy of this DVD, and they would obviously share it with another person,
[37:15.880 --> 37:18.180]  and maybe get them to listen to the radio program.
[37:18.180 --> 37:20.580]  Anyone that has the t-shirt would wear it, and people would look.
[37:20.660 --> 37:21.400]  What's that all about?
[37:21.500 --> 37:23.000]  Well, you should hear this.
[37:23.120 --> 37:25.860]  You should tune in the radio station and find out what it's all about.
[37:25.960 --> 37:26.840]  It's all word of mouth.
[37:27.000 --> 37:27.240]  Exactly.
[37:27.300 --> 37:30.380]  We don't have billboards on subways and things like that.
[37:30.380 --> 37:33.800]  But people find out about this radio station by telling other people about it.
[37:33.880 --> 37:34.740]  It's always been that way.
[37:34.880 --> 37:36.120]  Our listeners are the billboards.
[37:36.300 --> 37:37.300]  That's a very good point.
[37:37.440 --> 37:37.920]  Very good point.
[37:37.980 --> 37:43.500]  And by wearing our billboard on your chest, you will be advertising off the hook, and maybe more people will listen.
[37:43.780 --> 37:45.780]  You will not interfere with aircraft communication.
[37:46.540 --> 37:51.900]  Every time they say that that's been going on, they fail to offer kind of, you know...
[37:51.900 --> 37:52.660]  I think it's amazing that...
[37:52.660 --> 37:53.920]  ...evident that that was really happening.
[37:54.080 --> 37:56.520]  Bernie is talking about aircraft communication, just when we were mentioning that.
[37:56.580 --> 37:58.160]  This is a show from, I think, 1998.
[37:58.440 --> 38:07.300]  I heard something, though, from the FCC, and this is from a publication called Radio World, that the FCC is actually considering licensing some of these low-power stations.
[38:08.720 --> 38:11.460]  We're talking about low-power FM at that point, I believe, as well.
[38:11.520 --> 38:12.700]  More than a single watt.
[38:12.820 --> 38:17.480]  Yeah, so we have all kinds of interesting topics that we touch upon over the years.
[38:17.700 --> 38:19.200]  This will keep you busy for a lifetime.
[38:19.340 --> 38:19.740]  It really will.
[38:20.560 --> 38:27.800]  That topic came up again earlier this year, too, because wasn't the FCC putting more restrictions on where you could be with low-power FM.
[38:27.920 --> 38:33.980]  Yeah, the FCC really is very nervous about low-power FM because that challenges the status quo.
[38:34.360 --> 38:37.680]  And that's something that they always have clamped down on in the past.
[38:37.900 --> 38:39.240]  212-209-2950.
[38:39.460 --> 38:45.020]  I should point out that these archive programs that we're playing just snippets of on the air, we selected totally at random.
[38:45.140 --> 38:45.280]  Yeah.
[38:45.380 --> 38:47.860]  We have no idea what you're going to hear when we press play.
[38:48.000 --> 38:48.160]  Yeah.
[38:48.160 --> 38:53.040]  And every time we've done it, we get something relevant, which is kind of...
[38:53.040 --> 38:54.320]  I should tell you something right there.
[38:54.660 --> 38:56.300]  I'm going to throw something in from...
[38:56.300 --> 38:57.640]  Which one did I do first?
[38:57.840 --> 38:58.380]  I did...
[38:58.380 --> 38:59.040]  91.
[38:59.420 --> 38:59.820]  91?
[39:00.580 --> 39:00.980]  Okay.
[39:01.200 --> 39:02.640]  I'm going to do something from 1992.
[39:03.380 --> 39:11.800]  Now, it takes a while for these CD players to queue up, so I'll have to hit that button for a little while, and then hopefully something relevant will come up.
[39:12.220 --> 39:12.960]  In fact, you know what I'm going to do?
[39:13.000 --> 39:25.960]  I'm going to fast-forward this one to a point where we're taking phone calls, which is usually the last half hour of the show, and see if anybody relevant, saying something relevant, has called in from 12 years ago.
[39:26.460 --> 39:27.060]  It's great.
[39:27.120 --> 39:30.300]  You can have fun like this all the time and hear all kinds of things.
[39:30.380 --> 39:32.660]  You'll hear people calling in that later became part of the show.
[39:33.900 --> 39:34.780]  It's fascinating.
[39:34.920 --> 39:36.580]  212-209-2950.
[39:36.820 --> 39:37.580]  And it's also...
[39:37.580 --> 39:40.680]  It's kind of fun that these are the projects that we're involved in.
[39:40.760 --> 39:47.940]  We're always trying to create new things, whether it's films, CDs, conferences, new editions of the magazine, etc.
[39:49.700 --> 39:54.540]  It's inspiring to hear back from our listeners and from our readers that appreciate this kind of thing.
[39:54.620 --> 39:55.360]  That's what keeps us going.
[39:55.540 --> 39:57.100]  212-209-2950.
[39:57.440 --> 40:00.440]  So a strong showing tonight tells us that, yeah, it's worthwhile.
[40:00.660 --> 40:03.840]  We'll keep it up for the indefinite future.
[40:03.980 --> 40:06.980]  And hopefully the radio station as a whole will keep it up as well.
[40:08.020 --> 40:09.060]  212-209-2950.
[40:10.500 --> 40:11.300]  We have...
[40:11.300 --> 40:24.680]  Well, it looks like five calls on the line, but I think it's three because I think two of those lights are broken, which is another problem that you have when, you know, you're always struggling to make every bill get paid.
[40:24.720 --> 40:25.540]  Okay, here we go.
[40:25.860 --> 40:27.460]  This might be...
[40:27.940 --> 40:31.100]  I hope this is the part of the show where we're taking phone calls.
[40:31.180 --> 40:31.660]  8 p.m.
[40:31.660 --> 40:32.880]  That takes place at CityCorp.
[40:33.180 --> 40:34.600]  Oh, we're talking about the meetings.
[40:34.780 --> 40:35.840]  Between 3rd and Lexington.
[40:36.120 --> 40:43.820]  Basically, a bunch of people just get together, hang out, play with the phones, and meet people and exchange information.
[40:44.420 --> 40:48.500]  And those meetings still go on to this day.
[40:48.900 --> 40:52.280]  First Friday of the month at what's now called the City Group Center.
[40:52.760 --> 40:54.860]  Is that you or is that someone else talking?
[40:55.120 --> 40:55.860]  This is me.
[40:56.480 --> 40:57.580]  Do I sound that different?
[40:57.720 --> 41:00.660]  For some reason, you want information on those particular cities.
[41:00.900 --> 41:01.060]  Yeah.
[41:01.240 --> 41:01.980]  You seem breathless.
[41:02.340 --> 41:04.660]  Well, I probably was very excited talking about this.
[41:04.660 --> 41:06.700]  It's 212-209-2950.
[41:06.860 --> 41:09.820]  You can find out all kinds of information about the past.
[41:10.280 --> 41:12.780]  He who forgets the past is condemned to...
[41:12.780 --> 41:13.460]  Repeated it.
[41:13.560 --> 41:13.740]  Yeah.
[41:14.680 --> 41:15.200]  Or forget it.
[41:15.200 --> 41:16.660]  I thought that had something to do with dinner, though.
[41:17.280 --> 41:18.300]  I don't know about that.
[41:18.820 --> 41:21.600]  Let's talk about Verizon a little bit because it's one of my favorite subjects.
[41:21.860 --> 41:25.980]  I got this newsletter, you know, the monthly newsletter that you get...
[41:25.980 --> 41:26.740]  Bernie, do you get this?
[41:26.840 --> 41:28.060]  Do you have a regular phone line?
[41:28.160 --> 41:29.600]  Do you get the Verizon newsletter?
[41:29.900 --> 41:31.120]  No, I don't have a wire line.
[41:31.220 --> 41:35.960]  However, I do belong to the Verizon Consultants Liaison Program.
[41:36.180 --> 41:38.200]  And they mail me a nice newsletter every month.
[41:38.580 --> 41:38.840]  Uh-huh.
[41:40.900 --> 41:41.540]  Interesting, because...
[41:41.540 --> 41:47.680]  Well, this is the New York, New England version of this newsletter, so you probably wouldn't have gotten this one anyway, even if you did have a wired line.
[41:47.860 --> 41:50.620]  But basically, they're going over all the services they offer.
[41:51.260 --> 41:54.200]  And some of them are interesting and some of them are really bad.
[41:55.520 --> 41:57.400]  Well, like, caller ID lets you see them.
[41:57.560 --> 41:59.460]  They describe them, too, for people that don't know what they are.
[41:59.940 --> 42:02.940]  Let's you see the main listed name and number of incoming calls.
[42:03.060 --> 42:04.800]  Customer-provided display equipment is required.
[42:04.920 --> 42:05.960]  Not all calls can be identified.
[42:06.220 --> 42:12.620]  I remember over the years, this radio program talked about caller ID as a new technology and whether or not it would ever be accepted.
[42:12.620 --> 42:13.340]  Looks like it has been.
[42:14.180 --> 42:20.500]  Anonymous call rejection works with or without caller ID to prevent callers who have blocked their calling information from reaching you.
[42:20.620 --> 42:25.040]  An announcement will tell these callers how to temporarily unblock their number so their call can get through to you.
[42:25.200 --> 42:28.360]  Press star-77 to turn on and star-87 to turn off.
[42:28.540 --> 42:30.300]  We've talked about that a number of times as well.
[42:30.920 --> 42:35.240]  Pro-call blocking which is something that a lot of people make use of if they want to block their number.
[42:35.380 --> 42:36.020]  They dial star-67.
[42:36.340 --> 42:40.080]  Of course, you can also have your number blocked for all calls.
[42:40.840 --> 42:49.420]  Then you have these new services like Call Intercept works with caller ID service to screen calls where the number is unavailable.
[42:49.700 --> 42:56.100]  These callers have to identify themselves giving you the option to take the call, refuse the call, or send it to home voicemail.
[42:57.580 --> 42:58.880]  Bernie, have you heard about this?
[42:59.280 --> 43:00.120]  I have.
[43:00.280 --> 43:20.680]  It's rather annoying, but one way I get around this is I use a prepaid calling card number programmed into my cell phone, and I call people through that calling card, and that way they don't get my cell phone number, but it does send a caller ID number of whatever hunt group is outgoing from their calling card company.
[43:20.880 --> 43:21.060]  Really?
[43:21.060 --> 43:22.320]  Yeah, it works well.
[43:22.580 --> 43:25.920]  It sends a number from that company instead of your number.
[43:26.160 --> 43:26.660]  Exactly.
[43:26.660 --> 43:28.280]  It also works for toll-free numbers.
[43:28.420 --> 43:41.880]  As our listeners may know, whenever you call a toll-free number, 800-877-866-888, the person who receives that call or company knows the number you're calling from, even if you block your caller ID.
[43:42.280 --> 43:45.380]  So if you're calling them from your cell phone, they've gotten...
[43:45.380 --> 43:52.580]  Who was our great investigator guy at all the HOOP conferences, Steve Rambam?
[43:52.660 --> 43:52.860]  Yes.
[43:53.040 --> 44:05.040]  He said, absolutely, whenever you call a big company toll-free number, they instantly have your phone number and they associate that phone number you called from with your account information, whether it's your cell phone number or whatever.
[44:05.160 --> 44:06.860]  And that's how people get your cell phone number.
[44:07.020 --> 44:16.420]  But if you get a prepaid phone cards for like three cents a minute, many of them let you make calls to 800 numbers through that card.
[44:16.600 --> 44:17.380]  So I've got...
[44:17.380 --> 44:20.280]  I just pre-programmed the whole number and the passcode into my phone.
[44:20.520 --> 44:29.600]  Whenever I call a company who I don't want them to have my cell phone number, I call them that way and they end up with a bogus number and they can't call me back or sell my cell phone number to anybody.
[44:30.220 --> 44:38.000]  Now I sense all throughout the metropolitan area and over the internet people are writing that information down that Bernie just told them about how to protect their identity on a cell phone.
[44:38.700 --> 44:40.240]  So you're getting something out of this.
[44:40.400 --> 44:46.180]  So please give something back and keep things like this coming in the future as well as the past.
[44:46.180 --> 44:48.360]  We're offering the past and we're also offering the future.
[44:48.500 --> 44:48.900]  Isn't that something?
[44:49.580 --> 44:59.400]  212-209-2950 for a pledge of 75 you'll get the DVD DVD ROM with all the shows that we've done since 1988 up until the end of 2003.
[45:00.120 --> 45:07.060]  For 50 you'll get the t-shirt the off-the-hook t-shirt which you'll also get for a pledge of 75 for any amount though you'll be helping the radio station.
[45:07.220 --> 45:10.980]  212-209-2950 we're up to $750 which is great.
[45:11.740 --> 45:15.380]  We're about halfway there and they haven't counted all the calls yet I don't think.
[45:15.380 --> 45:17.180]  So let's keep that going.
[45:17.480 --> 45:19.280]  Let's break a thousand in the next couple of minutes.
[45:20.040 --> 45:24.580]  They've been updating the tally which means they're bored in there.
[45:24.800 --> 45:25.600]  So you should really give them a call.
[45:25.600 --> 45:26.140]  Oh, no, no.
[45:26.220 --> 45:27.420]  We want them to be excited.
[45:27.600 --> 45:28.680]  We want frenzy down there.
[45:29.020 --> 45:33.220]  212-209-2950 Again, this is a one-hour show.
[45:33.340 --> 45:36.220]  We're not doing an extended show like we've done in the past for fundraisers.
[45:36.280 --> 45:40.280]  This is the annual winter fundraiser of WBAI.
[45:40.800 --> 45:45.820]  Without these we would not have get annoyed.
[45:46.060 --> 45:48.480]  It's a bit annoying to have to ask for money.
[45:48.580 --> 45:49.240]  It is.
[45:49.360 --> 45:51.400]  It's annoying to have to hear people ask for money.
[45:51.680 --> 45:54.500]  But it's also the way this station exists.
[45:55.420 --> 45:56.100]  Think about it.
[45:56.200 --> 45:58.180]  You don't have a choice when you listen to other radio stations.
[45:58.180 --> 46:04.260]  You hear the commercials and you've already paid for them by buying the products because advertising is always factored in.
[46:05.140 --> 46:10.260]  So this at least you have some kind of choice in the matter and hopefully you'll make the right choice.
[46:10.380 --> 46:16.020]  212-209-2950 Let me just continue with this service directory.
[46:16.120 --> 46:22.160]  The reason I'm reading this is because it just made me think of all the different services that have been offered over the years and how things have been renamed and modified.
[46:22.780 --> 46:25.300]  For instance call forwarding is something we're all familiar with.
[46:25.380 --> 46:31.060]  Star 72 allows you to transfer all your home phone calls to any phone number local or long distance but not overseas.
[46:31.440 --> 46:41.760]  Not overseas which is a real pain and that's why we got that service we talked about last year that enabled us to call overseas dialing a toll-free number for very, very low cost.
[46:41.940 --> 46:43.040]  That was for the summer wasn't it?
[46:43.080 --> 46:44.660]  That was for the summer but we also used it in the winter.
[46:44.820 --> 46:45.120]  Oh, okay.
[46:45.260 --> 46:45.940]  Yeah, we still have it.
[46:46.500 --> 46:52.340]  They charge a dollar a month to have the service if you don't use it which I think is a good deal.
[46:52.800 --> 46:59.880]  Anyway, we've talked about that on the air we've talked about all kinds of other services but the phone company the local phone company seems to lag behind.
[47:00.020 --> 47:13.120]  For instance okay, we have distinctive ringing now those of us are cell phones and Bernie I don't know if your phone can do this but my new phone can do this and basically when somebody calls me they can have their own distinct ring.
[47:13.120 --> 47:14.000]  Oh, yeah.
[47:14.440 --> 47:14.940]  You have that?
[47:15.680 --> 47:21.600]  My phone is made by a company called Denso Wireless I've had it for five and a half years and it's had that feature.
[47:21.820 --> 47:23.400]  Five and a half years you've had that feature?
[47:23.520 --> 47:27.720]  I've had this cell phone it's not a feature it's a feature built into the phone it has nothing to do with a carrier.
[47:27.980 --> 47:42.140]  It recognizes the phone recognizes it uses the caller ID so you see what number it is you can associate that phone number with a particular ring and I can even write my own rings for this phone it's a Denso 1200 I've had it five and a half years and it has that feature.
[47:42.140 --> 47:42.580]  Wow.
[47:42.800 --> 47:44.420]  Well, you're way ahead of the time.
[47:44.740 --> 47:47.600]  That's, I mean, a lot of... that's like the new thing.
[47:47.720 --> 47:47.820]  Yeah.
[47:47.920 --> 47:51.360]  Being able to make your own ringtones and all sorts of things like that.
[47:51.360 --> 47:54.740]  And I can see someone's picture when they call, too, because my phone's a camera as well.
[47:55.280 --> 48:02.780]  And you could basically set up your phone so that whichever number was coming in, you had a particular ring from your menu to ring for that one.
[48:02.860 --> 48:05.260]  So you knew who was calling just in the ring.
[48:05.380 --> 48:06.240]  Are there phones now?
[48:06.440 --> 48:07.360]  I honestly don't know this.
[48:07.400 --> 48:15.340]  Are there phones that you can plug into your regular Verizon phone line that have this ability where you can have a different ring based on a different number that calls?
[48:15.560 --> 48:16.160]  Your landline?
[48:16.580 --> 48:17.500]  They do have that.
[48:17.780 --> 48:18.180]  Yes.
[48:18.300 --> 48:22.020]  There are phones you can buy that, you know, like a desk phone and so forth.
[48:22.200 --> 48:28.240]  But you can... there are a bunch of melodies pre-programmed into it that you can associate with a particular phone number.
[48:28.360 --> 48:32.920]  But you can also record... you know, there's a microphone, so you could...
[48:32.920 --> 48:40.280]  I don't think you can store WAV files in it or MP3 files, but you can record anything, like this is a manual calling.
[48:40.940 --> 48:45.820]  Into the microphone, so that when a manual calls you, it says, it's a manual calling.
[48:46.160 --> 48:46.840]  So that's kind of neat.
[48:47.020 --> 48:47.420]  That is neat.
[48:47.480 --> 48:50.000]  And what else is neat is that we have seven calls on the line right now.
[48:50.100 --> 48:51.960]  So let's keep that momentum going.
[48:52.080 --> 48:53.580]  212-209-2950.
[48:53.880 --> 48:55.360]  Only on for about another ten minutes.
[48:55.620 --> 49:05.000]  In a way, that feature is quite old, because they've made telephones for the blind that, from the start of caller ID, would read off the number that's calling you.
[49:05.300 --> 49:07.800]  So you can decide whether you're answering it or not.
[49:08.480 --> 49:08.760]  Wow.
[49:08.880 --> 49:13.300]  I see people running down the hall, which I think means that they need more help in tally, which is great.
[49:13.600 --> 49:14.020]  That's great.
[49:14.080 --> 49:14.900]  We want to see people running.
[49:15.040 --> 49:17.780]  It's good for them to run, but it's also good for us to get phone calls.
[49:17.880 --> 49:19.180]  212-209-2950.
[49:19.260 --> 49:19.460]  Look at this.
[49:19.520 --> 49:20.300]  We're in the third bank.
[49:20.540 --> 49:21.340]  The third bank.
[49:21.340 --> 49:23.360]  So we don't often get over there.
[49:24.320 --> 49:25.780]  212-209-2950.
[49:26.240 --> 49:29.880]  But the interesting thing about these features, this is what Verizon offers.
[49:30.100 --> 49:31.380]  They offer distinctive ring.
[49:31.560 --> 49:35.640]  And it's just, it's kind of funny, because it's so woefully out of date, yet they still offer it.
[49:35.740 --> 49:37.980]  And it also, it causes a whole other problem, too.
[49:38.300 --> 49:39.340]  Here's how they describe it.
[49:39.360 --> 49:44.880]  Provides you with one or two additional phone numbers on a single line with their own distinctive ringing patterns.
[49:45.180 --> 49:49.860]  The distinctive ring pattern lets you know whom the call is for before answering it.
[49:49.860 --> 49:56.220]  Yeah, but that's handy when you have it set up for, let's say you've got the little box that will allow you to put a fax machine on the same line.
[49:56.380 --> 49:59.500]  The distinctive ring will let you know, oh, that's the fax machine ring.
[49:59.620 --> 50:00.760]  Well, so will another phone line.
[50:00.840 --> 50:06.060]  But in the majority of cases that I've found, they just hand out these numbers.
[50:06.480 --> 50:08.920]  You get them with a package when you don't actually need them.
[50:08.980 --> 50:09.780]  I had three phone numbers.
[50:09.880 --> 50:11.460]  You know, I didn't even know I had three phone numbers.
[50:11.560 --> 50:14.680]  They just assigned me three phone numbers because that's what they do to everybody now.
[50:14.900 --> 50:15.900]  It wastes numbers.
[50:16.040 --> 50:17.340]  That's why we're running out of area codes.
[50:17.500 --> 50:18.180]  It's a good service.
[50:18.480 --> 50:19.100]  I'm sorry, what?
[50:19.100 --> 50:20.420]  It's a good service.
[50:20.680 --> 50:20.740]  Yeah.
[50:21.160 --> 50:26.820]  Most fax machines you buy now, or for the past few years, have the ability to detect the distinctive ring signal.
[50:27.100 --> 50:29.860]  So it's much more professional to give out a phone number.
[50:29.920 --> 50:32.240]  This is my fax number, and this is my phone number.
[50:32.280 --> 50:37.800]  Instead of one of these bogus things where it answers the phone and says, if this is a fax call, press one and then send the fax.
[50:37.900 --> 50:41.280]  Right, but you always had the ability to have a second phone number.
[50:41.520 --> 50:46.240]  Well, what they're doing here is they're giving out multiple phone numbers for people who don't necessarily need them.
[50:46.700 --> 50:50.740]  Well, maybe they're giving them out unnecessarily, but if you really want that service, it makes sense.
[50:50.840 --> 51:02.260]  That way you can have your fax machine connected to the same phone line that your phones are connected to, but have two numbers on that line and not have to pay even more money for a second line just for the fax machine.
[51:02.260 --> 51:02.840]  That's fine.
[51:02.940 --> 51:04.860]  That's fine if that's the service that you want.
[51:04.860 --> 51:08.520]  But what I'm saying is that so many people get this who do not need it.
[51:08.580 --> 51:21.780]  I was assigned three phone numbers and I didn't even know what the phone numbers were until I disconnected that line and I saw that I had these numbers I'd never used and they never even told me what they were.
[51:21.980 --> 51:23.740]  They just, by default, assigned them to me.
[51:24.040 --> 51:26.840]  Well, in your case, they blew it.
[51:27.040 --> 51:28.720]  But generally, this was marketed.
[51:28.840 --> 51:30.740]  I got this a few years ago for a while.
[51:30.940 --> 51:38.860]  It's marketed to people who have, like, teenagers in the house and only want, you know, one phone so the kid isn't up in the room talking to the drug dealer or whatever.
[51:40.000 --> 51:43.080]  So it rings and it's for you or it rings differently.
[51:43.080 --> 51:44.580]  It's for teenager number one.
[51:44.720 --> 51:45.580]  It rings a third way.
[51:45.680 --> 51:46.820]  It's for teenager number two.
[51:47.180 --> 51:50.320]  So you don't get people fighting over the phone.
[51:50.440 --> 51:51.380]  That was how it was marketed.
[51:51.540 --> 51:53.760]  Well, you do get people fighting over the phone because you don't get three outgoing lines.
[51:53.900 --> 51:55.100]  You only get one outgoing line.
[51:55.280 --> 51:55.640]  Well...
[51:55.640 --> 51:56.420]  They don't tell you that.
[51:56.500 --> 52:01.720]  They make it seem like you're getting three separate phone numbers, but in actuality, you're using three phone numbers but you're only getting one.
[52:01.720 --> 52:03.940]  Well, it has its purpose.
[52:31.980 --> 52:33.480]  The carriers don't want that.
[52:33.660 --> 52:39.160]  The carriers... Verizon doesn't want the intelligence to be in your phone because then they can't extract revenue from you every month.
[52:39.260 --> 52:43.440]  Well, they certainly failed at putting the intelligence in the phone company, so let's try the phones.
[52:44.260 --> 52:45.620]  212-209-2950.
[52:45.780 --> 52:48.100]  Let's see how we're doing on one of these shows here.
[52:48.800 --> 52:49.660]  Oh, isn't that?
[52:49.760 --> 52:50.260]  It's a theme.
[52:50.780 --> 52:52.020]  I guess that show's over.
[52:53.160 --> 52:53.920]  Wow, how about that?
[52:53.980 --> 52:54.500]  Let's try this one.
[52:54.640 --> 52:56.620]  Also, the three big companies...
[52:56.620 --> 52:57.160]  It's a caller.
[52:58.120 --> 52:59.080]  And it's about phones.
[52:59.080 --> 53:01.940]  Do they have, like, different lines, actually?
[53:02.060 --> 53:03.960]  Or do they share the same lines, all three?
[53:04.200 --> 53:05.320]  No, they have different networks.
[53:05.660 --> 53:07.520]  I see, because I heard once that they do.
[53:07.760 --> 53:15.220]  Well, some companies like Metromedia use other phone companies' lines to process their calls, cable and wireless as well.
[53:15.320 --> 53:17.820]  Smaller companies, you know, jump on to the big three.
[53:18.640 --> 53:20.900]  We're talking about companies that no longer even exist.
[53:21.100 --> 53:21.860]  Isn't that something?
[53:22.000 --> 53:22.540]  That's going to happen.
[53:22.760 --> 53:24.020]  We're up to 1,070.
[53:24.200 --> 53:24.320]  Yay.
[53:24.480 --> 53:28.440]  We crossed over the 1,000 mark, and we have three calls on the line.
[53:28.540 --> 53:31.740]  Let's make that five or six calls in the three minutes we have left.
[53:31.880 --> 53:33.580]  212-209-2950.
[53:34.120 --> 53:36.940]  Listen to the babble of voices that we have going on here.
[53:38.700 --> 53:39.980]  We're just playing two shows.
[53:40.060 --> 53:41.580]  How many shows did you say we had, Jim?
[53:42.120 --> 53:43.780]  Somewhere over 440.
[53:43.780 --> 53:45.620]  Wow, that's something.
[53:45.920 --> 53:46.360]  That's a lot.
[53:47.240 --> 53:48.620]  212-209-2950.
[53:48.760 --> 53:49.580]  Closing comments from Leo.
[53:50.080 --> 53:54.920]  I was going to say, speaking of companies that aren't going to exist anymore, AT&T Wireless is up for sale.
[53:55.120 --> 53:56.900]  It was in today's New York Times.
[53:57.040 --> 53:57.740]  Up for sale, huh?
[53:58.200 --> 53:59.120]  How much do they want?
[53:59.700 --> 54:01.080]  The article didn't mention it.
[54:01.120 --> 54:03.500]  It's right outside, so once we leave, we can actually read it.
[54:03.840 --> 54:04.560]  Okay, all right.
[54:04.640 --> 54:05.600]  Well, that's something to consider.
[54:05.740 --> 54:07.820]  And the MicroSuter is singular.
[54:08.360 --> 54:08.880]  Oh, really?
[54:09.280 --> 54:12.640]  Yeah, because they both use GSM.
[54:12.640 --> 54:13.120]  Uh-huh.
[54:13.500 --> 54:17.860]  And that's what the Wall Street Journal was saying today, anyway, that singular is a likely suitor.
[54:17.940 --> 54:22.360]  It wouldn't make sense for a company using a different wireless technology to buy them, because they'd have to retrofit everything.
[54:22.540 --> 54:26.840]  Of course, singular also uses T-Mobile's GSM network here in New York, right?
[54:27.220 --> 54:27.560]  Uh-huh.
[54:27.740 --> 54:32.180]  And T-Mobile uses singular's GSM network out west, so that could be kind of interesting.
[54:32.300 --> 54:37.560]  And perhaps they'd stop having the problems where I can't reach people because their lines are tied up.
[54:37.600 --> 54:39.320]  Yeah, that's a bummer, isn't it?
[54:40.060 --> 54:41.420]  212-209-2950.
[54:41.580 --> 54:46.640]  Let's have some closing remarks for you to get these phone calls coming in, because we've got to be out of here in about two minutes.
[54:46.840 --> 54:48.040]  And we won't be on next week.
[54:48.180 --> 54:56.440]  So, again, $75, you'll get all the shows that we have done, all the Off the Hook shows from 1988 until the end of year 2003.
[54:56.580 --> 54:59.640]  For $50, you'll get the Off the Hook official T-shirt.
[54:59.940 --> 55:02.600]  And, again, for $75, you'll get the T-shirt plus the DVD.
[55:03.880 --> 55:04.280]  And...
[55:04.280 --> 55:05.220]  Anything is welcome.
[55:05.420 --> 55:05.920]  Anything is welcome.
[55:06.060 --> 55:07.760]  212-209-2950.
[55:08.640 --> 55:09.440]  Closing remarks?
[55:09.760 --> 55:10.420]  What are we pointing to?
[55:10.800 --> 55:13.520]  No, I was just asking to be recognized.
[55:13.700 --> 55:14.300]  Closing remarks.
[55:15.920 --> 55:19.840]  1994 was the year that I started as a caller talking about MetroCards.
[55:20.200 --> 55:20.740]  You were a caller?
[55:20.960 --> 55:21.660]  I was a caller.
[55:21.960 --> 55:23.020]  Well, I'll have to find that show.
[55:23.220 --> 55:23.520]  Wow.
[55:23.740 --> 55:24.360]  No, I didn't know that.
[55:24.460 --> 55:27.100]  Somewhere around the middle of the year, June or May.
[55:28.840 --> 55:36.420]  Okay, yeah, and so if you pledge $75 and get the DVD, you can get the history of MetroCards and MetroCard hacking.
[55:38.040 --> 55:43.000]  This is Barbara Nimri-Aziz welcoming you to Arab Voices Crescent Rite.
[55:43.020 --> 55:54.600]  Okay, well, that's a different radio show, but sometimes, let me explain that, sometimes you get different radio shows that are following our radio show, so that you'll hear pieces of WBAI history as well.
[55:54.600 --> 55:56.180]  Well, that's kind of neat.
[55:56.960 --> 55:58.180]  Bernie, any last words from you?
[55:59.840 --> 56:07.100]  I just hope that people get their last-minute pledges in, because this is a very worthwhile station to support, and you wouldn't hear this kind of stuff anywhere else.
[56:07.660 --> 56:09.300]  That's right, and that's certainly true.
[56:11.100 --> 56:20.560]  And the fact that so many people support the radio station and support this radio show tells me that we're doing something that's worthwhile, and that's why we keep doing it, because of that feedback, because of that support.
[56:21.360 --> 56:26.100]  So I want to thank those people who have called in, and thank those of you who are in the process of dialing right now.
[56:26.240 --> 56:30.420]  I know there's probably a bunch of people trying to get through, so please keep trying.
[56:30.600 --> 56:34.180]  If you're overseas, give us a call, 212-209-2950.
[56:34.400 --> 56:38.720]  We're going to be back in two weeks, and I believe the fundraiser will still be going on then.
[56:38.800 --> 56:43.220]  It'll be another hour-long show, so we should have one more chance to do this.
[56:43.300 --> 56:48.560]  But if you have the opportunity to call now, we ask that you do, because who knows what's going to be happening in two weeks.
[56:48.560 --> 56:53.320]  So we'll be all distracted, and all kinds of other things will be going on.
[56:53.620 --> 56:56.720]  212-209-2950 is our phone number.
[56:57.700 --> 56:59.100]  Thanks again to everybody who called in.
[56:59.320 --> 57:00.920]  Stay tuned for the personal computer show.
[57:01.040 --> 57:03.240]  It's Emmanuel Goldstein for the rest of the crew here at Off the Hook.
[57:03.860 --> 57:04.980]  We'll see you in two weeks.
[57:05.060 --> 57:05.280]  Good night.
[57:35.950 --> 57:39.050]  We'll be right back.
[57:40.970 --> 57:41.690]  Good night.
[57:46.330 --> 58:10.260]  Every single night they're driving me insane They're spreading inside my brain The dream police, they live inside my head They look at me and my baby.
[58:10.500 --> 58:13.760]  The dream police are coming to arrest me.