[00:00.000 --> 00:10.400]  Some members of AIM say they believe more indictments will be coming soon, but they hope that the true story about what happened to Anna May Okwash and so many others on Pine Ridge in the 1970s can come to the surface.
[00:10.860 --> 00:14.440]  For Free Speech Radio News, I'm Charles Michael Ray in Rapid City, South Dakota.
[00:18.460 --> 00:29.080]  Free Speech Radio News is produced at Pacifica stations WBAI in New York, KPFA in Berkeley, and KPFK in Los Angeles, and community radio station WMNF in Tampa, Florida.
[00:29.920 --> 00:31.720]  FSRN is a worker-run collective.
[00:31.720 --> 00:36.860]  For more information, you can visit our website at www.fsrn.org.
[00:37.380 --> 00:39.400]  In New York, I'm Deepa Fernandes.
[00:43.190 --> 00:45.310]  And also in New York, it's Emmanuel Goldstein here.
[00:45.570 --> 00:48.230]  7 o'clock, Wednesday night, time for Off the Hook.
[01:04.710 --> 01:06.190]  Couldn't get much worse.
[01:06.910 --> 01:08.730]  But if they could, they would.
[01:09.030 --> 01:11.650]  Von Digglypon, but the best, expect the worst.
[01:12.350 --> 01:14.150]  I hope that's understood.
[01:14.370 --> 01:15.190]  Von Digglypon!
[01:49.180 --> 01:50.240]  And a good evening to everybody.
[01:50.440 --> 01:51.320]  The program is Off the Hook.
[01:51.540 --> 01:54.340]  Emmanuel Goldstein here with you, along with Jeff.
[01:54.660 --> 01:55.260]  Good evening.
[01:55.880 --> 01:56.280]  Mike.
[01:56.700 --> 01:57.000]  Hi.
[01:57.220 --> 01:57.620]  And Jim.
[01:57.820 --> 01:58.080]  Hello.
[01:59.140 --> 02:01.640]  And it's been... we weren't on last week.
[02:01.760 --> 02:02.400]  Sorry about that.
[02:02.400 --> 02:06.760]  But we had to extend the marathon, which is over.
[02:06.900 --> 02:08.920]  The marathon has ended as of 6 p.m.
[02:09.200 --> 02:09.680]  this evening.
[02:11.360 --> 02:13.320]  And, well, gosh, the number's not up there anymore.
[02:13.320 --> 02:13.920]  It says zero.
[02:14.060 --> 02:20.340]  But before, I was looking at the number, and it said 1 million and I think 30,000 or something or other is the grand total so far.
[02:20.460 --> 02:22.740]  But the tally room is still open, I'm told.
[02:22.940 --> 02:26.140]  And people can still call in with their pledges, 212-209-2950.
[02:26.300 --> 02:27.980]  But we're not pitching anymore.
[02:28.260 --> 02:32.080]  So if you had any last-minute pledges to deal with, I think there are still people down there.
[02:32.080 --> 02:33.040]  I can't swear to it, though.
[02:33.440 --> 02:34.860]  They're down there.
[02:34.960 --> 02:36.040]  Are they answering phones or are they goofing off?
[02:36.040 --> 02:37.680]  They're answering phones or taking pledges.
[02:37.940 --> 02:38.320]  All right.
[02:38.520 --> 02:39.020]  Well, that's good, then.
[02:39.020 --> 02:39.500]  I'm looking for your support.
[02:39.660 --> 02:42.200]  And it's great that we're through this.
[02:42.620 --> 02:45.860]  It's always a stressful time when you have to raise money to survive.
[02:46.700 --> 02:49.420]  But it's something that we've gotten kind of good at in the past.
[02:49.540 --> 02:49.880]  Right, Bernie?
[02:50.720 --> 02:51.820]  We all have to do it.
[02:52.340 --> 02:52.920]  Bernie, yes.
[02:53.000 --> 02:54.600]  You're joining us from Philadelphia, right?
[02:54.940 --> 02:55.300]  Yes.
[02:56.040 --> 02:56.400]  Yes.
[02:56.700 --> 02:57.480]  Well, good for you.
[03:02.460 --> 03:04.520]  I just returned from a Sprint PCS store.
[03:05.580 --> 03:07.060]  Well, did you throw a phone at them?
[03:07.180 --> 03:08.860]  What the purpose of the visit was?
[03:09.020 --> 03:10.060]  Well, I had to pay my bill.
[03:11.360 --> 03:16.100]  Someone rudely called me a couple days ago demanding money.
[03:17.300 --> 03:18.800]  And I checked my account balance.
[03:18.800 --> 03:21.840]  And it was three days into my cycle.
[03:22.440 --> 03:22.880]  Yeah.
[03:23.160 --> 03:28.280]  They were asking that I pay them what to do at the next cycle, which is like a hundred and some dollars.
[03:28.420 --> 03:29.180]  And I was three dollars.
[03:29.620 --> 03:32.480]  I was like three days into owing them three dollars.
[03:33.180 --> 03:36.860]  And they called me demanding the whole hundred something that isn't due till March.
[03:38.300 --> 03:39.900]  And so I was annoyed.
[03:40.100 --> 03:40.400]  So I called.
[03:40.500 --> 03:48.260]  Sprint is very notorious, if that's even a proper phrase, for doing that, for calling people, pestering them for money on their phone.
[03:48.800 --> 03:50.340]  And when it's not even due.
[03:51.340 --> 03:54.460]  I investigated and apparently the people who call you get a commission.
[03:54.960 --> 03:59.660]  That's why they're so insistent that you pay them with a credit card or whatever so that they can get the money right then.
[03:59.860 --> 04:01.040]  Then they get a commission on it.
[04:01.080 --> 04:02.120]  So that's why they're so aggressive.
[04:02.340 --> 04:03.900]  But I mean, it's not even overdue.
[04:04.280 --> 04:04.600]  No.
[04:04.880 --> 04:07.860]  In fact, once they called me, I hadn't even gotten the bill yet.
[04:08.260 --> 04:10.480]  They hadn't even sent the bill out or I hadn't gotten it yet.
[04:10.620 --> 04:11.800]  And they were pestering me for money.
[04:12.300 --> 04:13.560]  That's one of the reasons I left them.
[04:13.640 --> 04:14.680]  I'm with Verizon now.
[04:14.720 --> 04:16.040]  I have no major complaints with Verizon.
[04:16.480 --> 04:19.560]  I don't use the phone all that much, but the coverage seems to be better.
[04:20.360 --> 04:21.660]  And I haven't been pestered.
[04:21.660 --> 04:21.840]  You sound better.
[04:22.060 --> 04:22.720]  Haven't been pestered.
[04:22.740 --> 04:24.720]  Yeah, you talked to me on the phone before and you said I sounded better.
[04:24.840 --> 04:26.500]  But that could be the phone, in all fairness.
[04:26.620 --> 04:26.820]  That's right.
[04:27.080 --> 04:27.900]  The phone could make all...
[04:27.900 --> 04:29.920]  I was looking at phones in a Sprint store.
[04:30.620 --> 04:34.000]  And just because I wanted to see this new Trio 600, which is a Palm-based thing.
[04:34.100 --> 04:34.620]  It looks really cool.
[04:34.620 --> 04:36.760]  And all they had was this mock-up dummy.
[04:36.900 --> 04:38.080]  I said, well, I'd like to hear one.
[04:38.520 --> 04:40.880]  And they said, well, all our phones sound the same.
[04:41.380 --> 04:42.540]  I said, no, they don't.
[04:44.420 --> 04:49.580]  Yeah, I love those statements of fact that have absolutely no basis in reality that you can get from people.
[04:51.100 --> 04:53.180]  But, well, you know, just add it to the collection.
[04:54.300 --> 04:55.220]  I'm impressed with the phone.
[04:55.280 --> 04:57.620]  The phone I have is an LG, I think, VX6000.
[04:58.440 --> 05:00.680]  I think that's the brand and model number.
[05:01.340 --> 05:02.000]  Lucky Gold Star.
[05:02.520 --> 05:03.060]  Oh, sorry?
[05:03.620 --> 05:04.680]  Lucky Gold Star.
[05:04.840 --> 05:05.540]  That's actually...
[05:05.540 --> 05:08.040]  The name of the company who makes it is Lucky Gold Star.
[05:08.180 --> 05:09.700]  Recently, they changed their name to LG.
[05:09.960 --> 05:10.940]  Oh, that's what it stands for.
[05:11.180 --> 05:12.100]  It's really Lucky Gold Star.
[05:12.380 --> 05:13.700]  I think it's a Taiwanese company.
[05:13.860 --> 05:15.960]  Are they the same Gold Star that makes my TV set?
[05:16.240 --> 05:16.600]  Yes.
[05:16.880 --> 05:17.120]  Mm-hmm.
[05:17.280 --> 05:18.100]  Huh, how about that?
[05:18.420 --> 05:18.780]  Wow.
[05:18.960 --> 05:20.580]  Well, maybe my phone can control my TV now.
[05:21.300 --> 05:25.280]  But in any event, it has a voice dialing function on it, which is kind of cool because it's a flip phone.
[05:25.840 --> 05:30.240]  I set it so that when I flip it open, it assumes I want to speak a name.
[05:30.680 --> 05:32.140]  So I feel like I'm on Star Trek.
[05:32.160 --> 05:35.040]  I just open the thing up and start talking, and instantly I get a response.
[05:35.280 --> 05:37.520]  Well, not instantly, but as soon as it connects to another ship.
[05:39.080 --> 05:39.440]  Regardless.
[05:39.860 --> 05:40.740]  Okay, enough about that.
[05:41.360 --> 05:49.800]  Speaking of phone stuff, actually, I do want to say something about credit cards, because you mentioned credit cards and unfairness and craziness and things like that.
[05:50.440 --> 06:07.120]  And before I get into that, actually, let me also mention that the T-Mobile incident I had last month, I guess, where my phone got stolen in Amsterdam, and then whoever stole it proceeded to make all these expensive calls to sex lines, like, within 15 minutes of me losing it,
[06:07.260 --> 06:11.380]  I was able to work it all out with T-Mobile, where they wiped out the credit.
[06:11.380 --> 06:18.080]  I mean, they wiped out the charges and gave me a credit, and I have a new T-Mobile phone now as well, so I was able to transfer all of that.
[06:18.180 --> 06:25.060]  That went relatively painlessly, as did the switch over to Verizon from Sprint.
[06:25.400 --> 06:30.780]  So I'm kind of impressed right now, kind of impressed with the wireless capabilities that surround me.
[06:31.560 --> 06:34.800]  But I do have a big complaint to make about credit cards.
[06:36.000 --> 06:36.760]  MasterCard in particular.
[06:36.940 --> 06:38.920]  Actually, not particularly MasterCard, but Chase.
[06:38.920 --> 06:52.020]  Oh, my God, these people, if there is ever a revolution, and buildings are being torn down, I'm going to pass a motion, or put forward a motion that we start with Chase, because these people just are driving me completely insane.
[06:52.220 --> 06:57.680]  Before I went away to Europe this winter, I figured I'd do a nice thing and pay my bill, you know?
[06:57.740 --> 07:00.440]  You know, Emmanuel, I never heard of a motion-driven revolution.
[07:00.880 --> 07:01.940]  Well, how else are you going to do things?
[07:02.020 --> 07:03.880]  What, yell in the street and run around with...
[07:03.880 --> 07:10.400]  I mean, you could maybe set some of the policy by motions, but the building tearing down, I feel like, needs to happen more organically.
[07:11.120 --> 07:12.780]  The revolution will not be televised.
[07:12.880 --> 07:14.600]  Where'd you get a WFMU t-shirt, by the way?
[07:15.340 --> 07:16.060]  From WFMU?
[07:16.200 --> 07:16.840]  Well, how about that?
[07:17.080 --> 07:18.500]  All right, well, that's interesting.
[07:19.220 --> 07:21.500]  No, good station, but I never saw their t-shirts before.
[07:22.000 --> 07:23.600]  I hope our t-shirts are as good as that.
[07:24.120 --> 07:25.300]  In any event...
[07:25.300 --> 07:27.220]  So, I paid my bill before I left.
[07:27.740 --> 07:30.860]  Now, unfortunately, I paid my bill the day the bill came out.
[07:31.440 --> 07:32.360]  I paid it in full.
[07:33.200 --> 07:39.940]  Now, when I was away, there was this one recurring charge of, like, $15 or something that popped up on the bill.
[07:40.420 --> 07:54.620]  So, when I came back and got around to finally opening my bills after doing all kinds of other things like putting out a magazine, I noticed that there was this $15 charge on my MasterCard bill, and they were insisting that I pay that by the due date.
[07:54.720 --> 08:02.140]  Even though I had already paid the full bill, they were insisting that I pay that particular amount, or else there'd be a late charge and a finance charge on top of that.
[08:02.200 --> 08:05.400]  In other words, they didn't take the money that I paid them and credited it to the bill.
[08:05.560 --> 08:10.020]  They just put it into some kind of black hole somewhere and made a, I guess, a negative balance.
[08:10.260 --> 08:12.000]  But it didn't apply to the current bill.
[08:12.060 --> 08:15.740]  It applied, I guess, to the last bill, even though there was no money due on the last bill.
[08:15.840 --> 08:16.000]  You see?
[08:16.120 --> 08:16.540]  You feel it?
[08:16.580 --> 08:17.640]  It's very complicated.
[08:17.860 --> 08:24.060]  I called them and asked them about this, and they tried to explain it to me, but there are certain things that I just cannot accept.
[08:24.060 --> 08:28.640]  Except it's this whole revolving charge theory, which mathematicians can't even get.
[08:29.680 --> 08:34.720]  Basically, what I said to them, and they agreed to this, which sort of proved the absurdity of the situation.
[08:34.780 --> 08:40.200]  I said, if I had done the exact same thing that I had done three weeks later, I would not owe a late fee.
[08:40.280 --> 08:40.960]  Is that what you're saying?
[08:41.140 --> 08:41.860]  And they said yes.
[08:42.920 --> 08:43.740]  That's how it works.
[08:43.800 --> 08:44.860]  That's how credit cards work.
[08:45.440 --> 08:50.840]  And then the latest thing Chase did to me, when I called up to complain about this, the people were very friendly.
[08:51.060 --> 08:52.960]  You know, I'm always very friendly with representatives on the phone.
[08:52.960 --> 08:53.880]  I never yell at them.
[08:54.140 --> 08:56.500]  I try to get them to see the absurdity of the situation.
[08:57.240 --> 08:59.700]  You're trying to tell me that this is the way it's...
[08:59.700 --> 09:02.200]  And they say, they agree, but they can't do anything about it.
[09:03.300 --> 09:05.520]  This person felt so bad, they said, you know what?
[09:05.680 --> 09:07.320]  Let's increase your credit line.
[09:07.640 --> 09:09.440]  How would you like an increased credit line?
[09:09.500 --> 09:10.540]  I'm like, yeah, sure, whatever.
[09:10.720 --> 09:11.780]  Just do whatever you have to do.
[09:13.340 --> 09:14.680]  Just trying to get through the phone call.
[09:15.500 --> 09:21.040]  And so, a week or two later, I get these pieces of regular mail in the U.S.
[09:21.080 --> 09:24.420]  mail saying that my request for additional credit has been declined.
[09:24.920 --> 09:26.660]  It's like, I wasn't even requesting it.
[09:26.680 --> 09:27.600]  I was just being polite.
[09:27.880 --> 09:34.880]  And now I have to wonder if the credit agencies are going to see that I'm trying to get more credit on my credit cards and I'm up to something.
[09:34.880 --> 09:36.560]  I want to speak to my audience.
[09:36.860 --> 09:40.380]  They think that I'm going to be the other guy's...
[09:40.380 --> 09:40.820]  Do you hear this?
[09:41.380 --> 09:42.460]  Yeah, it's coming through.
[09:43.000 --> 09:44.040]  What the hell was that?
[09:44.080 --> 09:44.080]  Where?
[09:44.180 --> 09:44.680]  I don't know.
[09:45.300 --> 09:46.580]  Bernie, that's got to be from you.
[09:46.840 --> 09:48.200]  No, no, I heard it coming...
[09:48.200 --> 09:50.560]  It's coming through your board there.
[09:50.740 --> 09:51.820]  Well, I'm looking at what's up.
[09:51.900 --> 09:54.120]  The only things up here are microphones and the Blue Man Group.
[09:55.140 --> 09:56.180]  I don't think it's them.
[09:57.140 --> 09:58.040]  Are you playing music now?
[09:59.260 --> 10:01.940]  No, now it's Lipton Quacey Johnson, but where is he coming from?
[10:02.500 --> 10:03.440]  It's got to be from there.
[10:04.880 --> 10:05.980]  It's not that.
[10:06.720 --> 10:07.480]  It's not that.
[10:08.080 --> 10:10.600]  Okay, I don't even...
[10:12.820 --> 10:13.640]  Ah, that one.
[10:13.720 --> 10:14.480]  Okay, thank you.
[10:14.700 --> 10:16.220]  I never saw that switch up before.
[10:16.300 --> 10:16.960]  What is that switch?
[10:17.080 --> 10:17.680]  I don't know.
[10:17.980 --> 10:21.160]  Okay, well, that switch is being not only turned off but removed from the board.
[10:21.920 --> 10:22.340]  All right.
[10:22.720 --> 10:24.180]  Sorry about that, folks, for the confusion.
[10:24.380 --> 10:27.760]  And thank you, whoever that is, for not cussing while you were doing whatever you were doing.
[10:28.200 --> 10:29.640]  Your credit was harmed, Emmanuel.
[10:29.800 --> 10:30.900]  So my credit might have been harmed.
[10:31.580 --> 10:33.880]  It affected your Fair Isaac score.
[10:35.260 --> 10:40.340]  Whenever someone checks your credit, it looks bad on your...
[10:40.340 --> 10:50.320]  If you start requesting credit from several creditors, you're considered a bad risk because it looks like you're desperate and you need credit from all over the place.
[10:50.320 --> 10:59.040]  Every time you request an increase in credit, they check your credit, and this puts points on your Fair Isaac score, or actually lowers your Fair Isaac score.
[10:59.560 --> 11:00.700]  And that harms you.
[11:00.900 --> 11:02.740]  Okay, well, I'm going to check into this.
[11:02.780 --> 11:05.720]  And if that is, in fact, what happened, I am definitely going to pursue this.
[11:05.900 --> 11:06.260]  Wait, Emmanuel.
[11:06.480 --> 11:17.640]  Bernie, the one thing I've noticed is that having gone through a divorce and totally destroyed my credit rating, I wish I could have a nickel for every application or every credit card application I get in the mail.
[11:17.640 --> 11:21.300]  Well, just because you get the application doesn't affect your Fair Isaac score.
[11:21.300 --> 11:22.920]  But I've gotten credit cards with them.
[11:23.400 --> 11:24.120]  That's the thing.
[11:24.240 --> 11:25.440]  Yeah, if you fill them out.
[11:25.500 --> 11:25.860]  Sure.
[11:26.360 --> 11:29.340]  If you fill them out, then they actually do a check.
[11:29.740 --> 11:44.840]  But the China check, the kind of credit request that you make, like if you said yes, like Emmanuel said yes to that guy at T-Mobile or Chase, that gives them permission to check your credit, and then that affects your Fair Isaac score.
[11:45.060 --> 11:46.820]  I've researched this extensively.
[11:47.120 --> 11:49.920]  Okay, well, I'm hoping that they didn't actually do something like that.
[11:49.960 --> 11:51.400]  Maybe it was an internal thing.
[11:51.560 --> 11:52.420]  I don't know.
[11:52.640 --> 12:01.300]  But I get every quarter I get a report saying if anybody has accessed my credit or if anybody has posted anything negative.
[12:01.500 --> 12:04.960]  So if that happens, there's going to be ramifications, and I'd just like to leave it at that.
[12:04.960 --> 12:17.500]  Yeah, the Turbulence.org project has just, which I don't know what it is, but they've just posted something called the Swipe Toolkit, which helps you get out all this data that all these databases are storing about you.
[12:17.680 --> 12:20.720]  It helps you extract that data and let you see it for yourself.
[12:22.320 --> 12:25.300]  So they have four sections to their site.
[12:25.400 --> 12:26.120]  One is the intro.
[12:26.640 --> 12:33.300]  One is to get information from these credit agencies and all these agencies that know everything about you more than you know about yourself.
[12:34.080 --> 12:49.220]  One is a data calculator, which shows you, like, if your name and address is worth, I don't know, a dollar, and maybe your social security number is worth two dollars, and you fill out a form, you can see how much information you... how much value of information you have provided them on this form.
[12:49.720 --> 12:57.440]  And the fourth tool, which I found to be very interesting, decodes the 2D barcode on your driver's license.
[12:57.600 --> 12:58.200]  Oh, really?
[12:58.200 --> 13:08.940]  So if you look at a New York state license, or most other states, apparently 39 states have them, this, like, weird-looking thing on the bottom of...
[13:08.940 --> 13:09.500]  Hold it up to the microphone.
[13:09.560 --> 13:10.620]  Can everyone see this?
[13:10.660 --> 13:11.120]  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[13:11.360 --> 13:11.760]  Wow.
[13:12.080 --> 13:15.120]  Don't take a picture, radio listeners, and use my data, please.
[13:15.480 --> 13:16.760]  You are a Kusinich supporter.
[13:18.820 --> 13:27.900]  So you can take this data, and if you have a scanner, you can scan it in, and it will tell you what that data actually says, which is something I've always wondered.
[13:27.900 --> 13:31.440]  We've been trying to do that at the meetings for years, and it's good that people are finally moving ahead with that.
[13:31.580 --> 13:37.820]  So, yeah, you know, any kind of data that you have carrying around with you, you know, you should be able to scan and read and decode.
[13:38.280 --> 13:42.040]  There's a scam along those lines that people might want to be aware of.
[13:42.580 --> 13:43.760]  I heard about this today.
[13:43.960 --> 13:45.200]  It's happened to a co-worker.
[13:46.080 --> 13:57.060]  Someone actually photographed his credit card with one of these camera phones and used his number, because it has the whole number and the expiration date on the front of the card.
[13:57.540 --> 13:59.240]  They made a photograph at the back of it, too.
[13:59.320 --> 14:02.340]  It has, like, that secret three-digit code on the back of it.
[14:02.600 --> 14:07.320]  So, you know, it's more risk now that all these camera phones are out there.
[14:07.400 --> 14:12.520]  It makes it easier for people to just snap a picture of your card, you know, when you hand it to them to make a purchase.
[14:12.660 --> 14:14.760]  Yeah, you know, the camera phones are really changing a lot of things.
[14:14.840 --> 14:17.700]  In fact, I have a story here that somebody sent us from Canada.
[14:18.160 --> 14:25.080]  There's a town up there called Leamington, and apparently they feel very strongly about this whole cell phone camera business.
[14:25.100 --> 14:30.660]  They don't want cell phone shutterbugs snapping pictures of naked people in its showers or change rooms.
[14:31.880 --> 14:34.540]  That's right up there on the top of the priority list there.
[14:35.000 --> 14:47.620]  Even though it hasn't had a problem yet, they've been thinking and brainstorming about this, and they're outlawing the use of cell phones and personal digital assistance in all locker rooms, change rooms, and washrooms in municipal buildings.
[14:47.720 --> 14:51.340]  So I guess you're free and clear in any other building to snap away.
[14:51.700 --> 15:01.680]  The devices with digital cameras will also be banned from the pool, the fitness studio, the child care center, and the weight room of the Leamington Kinsman Recreation Complex.
[15:02.700 --> 15:06.420]  It's also... they're also going to be banned from town beaches and parks.
[15:07.200 --> 15:15.720]  Basically, what they're afraid of is that someone's going to use these devices to take digital photographs of people without their knowledge and even post them on the Internet.
[15:17.160 --> 15:18.780]  It's giving me all kinds of ideas.
[15:18.980 --> 15:20.760]  I guess I wouldn't have thought of it before.
[15:20.920 --> 15:25.520]  But, boy, yeah, you know, how can you tell if someone's taking a picture or talking on the phone?
[15:25.660 --> 15:26.400]  What do you do about this?
[15:27.360 --> 15:34.920]  How about these red light cameras and the, you know, cameras alongside the highway and the cameras at a toll booth?
[15:35.220 --> 15:36.440]  I mean, there's cameras everywhere.
[15:36.680 --> 15:36.920]  Mm-hmm.
[15:37.660 --> 15:37.960]  Yeah.
[15:38.180 --> 15:41.080]  And, you know, a lot of these cameras are operated by the authorities.
[15:41.460 --> 15:43.600]  You know, the surveillance cameras of all sorts.
[15:43.700 --> 15:48.520]  You saw how they took a picture of that girl being kidnapped before she was murdered in Florida.
[15:48.800 --> 15:52.720]  And, you know, they basically are filming just about everything that goes on.
[15:53.280 --> 15:55.920]  I think the only thing you can do today is say cheese.
[15:56.800 --> 15:57.120]  Yeah.
[15:58.400 --> 15:59.780]  So, yeah, what do you do about that?
[15:59.900 --> 16:01.080]  My phone has a camera on it now.
[16:01.140 --> 16:02.320]  My new phone has a camera.
[16:02.420 --> 16:03.060]  I'm able to take pictures.
[16:03.140 --> 16:04.200]  They're not very good pictures, though.
[16:04.360 --> 16:08.340]  They really, you know, if I was stalking somebody, I'd want better quality than that.
[16:08.820 --> 16:12.840]  You know, it's very shadowy, and the light just isn't, I don't know.
[16:13.820 --> 16:15.620]  I guess the next generation will be better.
[16:15.620 --> 16:19.140]  You know, you sent me a photograph, and I looked at it bigger, and I still don't know what it is.
[16:20.140 --> 16:22.160]  Yeah, well, that was a piece of art, actually.
[16:23.440 --> 16:24.060]  Oh, Emmanuel.
[16:24.320 --> 16:24.460]  Yes.
[16:25.160 --> 16:32.860]  While I was in Florida, I had the opportunity to use the SunPass system, which is Florida's equivalent to EasyPass.
[16:33.140 --> 16:34.300]  Did you say SunPass?
[16:34.520 --> 16:35.080]  SunPass.
[16:35.120 --> 16:35.400]  Okay.
[16:35.800 --> 16:37.360]  It's a completely different system.
[16:37.520 --> 16:37.700]  Right.
[16:37.800 --> 16:40.060]  Same principle, but I like it a lot more.
[16:40.060 --> 16:45.340]  The transducer, you know, the little thing you put up on your window, first of all, has a little LCD display.
[16:45.860 --> 16:54.260]  It shows you how much money you have left in your account, how much the most recent charge was, and, you know, when your bill is due.
[16:54.340 --> 16:55.820]  It shows all this information on this display.
[16:55.960 --> 16:56.520]  You press a button.
[16:56.680 --> 17:01.840]  When you go through the gate, and it pings you to debit money, it beeps.
[17:01.840 --> 17:02.460]  It's...
[17:03.100 --> 17:04.920]  You know that it's been pinged.
[17:05.020 --> 17:06.380]  Okay, so it beeps inside your car.
[17:06.600 --> 17:07.360]  Yeah, it beeps.
[17:07.620 --> 17:10.960]  And the little light that flashes, too, if you're deaf, you can see it flashed.
[17:11.460 --> 17:12.480]  It's really well designed.
[17:12.640 --> 17:17.600]  And if your account balance starts to run below, I think, $10, it beeps twice.
[17:17.600 --> 17:20.020]  So it reminds you, hey, time to fill it up.
[17:20.100 --> 17:21.580]  What if you go through it twice really quickly?
[17:21.700 --> 17:22.340]  How would you tell the difference?
[17:22.340 --> 17:23.140]  Um, I don't know.
[17:23.560 --> 17:24.500]  Probably get whiplash.
[17:26.380 --> 17:27.960]  Wow, that's an interesting system.
[17:28.060 --> 17:29.640]  Redhack, nice of you to join us.
[17:29.940 --> 17:30.660]  Yeah, sorry about that.
[17:30.660 --> 17:32.880]  You have the look of someone who's had a bad transit experience.
[17:33.140 --> 17:33.860]  Yeah, yeah.
[17:34.140 --> 17:37.540]  Well, I was on my way here, on the way in.
[17:38.880 --> 17:40.220]  It's okay, you're with friends now.
[17:41.060 --> 17:46.060]  No, I was getting on the subway, and instead of getting charged once, I got charged four times.
[17:46.640 --> 17:47.400]  Four times?
[17:47.680 --> 17:47.840]  Yeah.
[17:48.880 --> 17:50.300]  Usually they'd get you twice.
[17:51.480 --> 17:53.260]  I probably swiped it four times.
[17:53.700 --> 17:55.240]  The, uh, the...
[17:55.240 --> 17:56.780]  Why'd you swipe it four times?
[17:56.900 --> 17:59.840]  Well, the thing didn't say anything when I swiped it.
[17:59.940 --> 18:02.560]  It just, like, the LCD didn't light up.
[18:02.720 --> 18:02.860]  Really?
[18:02.960 --> 18:03.640]  It didn't light up at all?
[18:03.740 --> 18:04.080]  Said nothing?
[18:04.220 --> 18:05.360]  Right, but I didn't walk through either.
[18:05.720 --> 18:06.660]  Did you try walking through?
[18:06.860 --> 18:08.080]  No, I didn't try walking through.
[18:08.200 --> 18:09.760]  I would have tried walking, but it didn't say anything.
[18:09.780 --> 18:15.020]  It didn't say anything, and, uh, and I stupidly hadn't gotten a receipt, because I'd just refilled my card.
[18:15.260 --> 18:15.420]  Uh-huh.
[18:15.420 --> 18:22.620]  So I went to the booth, and he said, the guy said, I can give you this form and you can fill out and mail in and wait God knows how long.
[18:22.920 --> 18:27.540]  Well, they should be able to tell back at Control Central or whatever that he went through four times.
[18:27.660 --> 18:29.420]  They might think you took four people with you.
[18:29.540 --> 18:30.220]  I guess that's possible.
[18:30.340 --> 18:31.560]  But then you need those surveillance cameras.
[18:31.680 --> 18:32.080]  They can prove.
[18:32.080 --> 18:37.900]  It shouldn't deduct, uh, or it shouldn't let you swipe again unless you've walked through the turnstile.
[18:37.980 --> 18:38.800]  That doesn't make any sense.
[18:38.900 --> 18:42.280]  No, it does actually, because you can swipe it four times and then four people can walk through.
[18:42.500 --> 18:43.560]  It has a memory.
[18:43.820 --> 18:52.820]  Right, the idea is that the first person through is the cardholder, and he's got three friends trailing him, so he swipes it four times, goes through, and they come right after him.
[18:52.940 --> 18:54.380]  Now, here's something that bothers me more, though.
[18:54.620 --> 19:02.100]  If, say, you have four fictitious people with you like this, and they all go through, and then they all want to transfer later on to, um...
[19:02.100 --> 19:03.620]  Well, let's say four of you went on a bus.
[19:03.700 --> 19:04.560]  It's easier to do it this way.
[19:04.900 --> 19:07.380]  And you want to transfer to a subway station.
[19:07.880 --> 19:09.380]  How many times do you swipe the card?
[19:09.780 --> 19:10.460]  That's right, Jim.
[19:10.640 --> 19:10.960]  Once.
[19:11.360 --> 19:14.720]  A lot of people do it four times, and they wind up paying three full fares as a result.
[19:15.000 --> 19:18.660]  The other problem I have with that is it's assuming all four people want to continue going together.
[19:18.660 --> 19:22.540]  Supposing you've had a fight, and two people want to go one way, and two want to go another way.
[19:22.620 --> 19:24.320]  This is one reason to carry your own MetroCard.
[19:24.320 --> 19:42.640]  And I think it's the general attitude of the transit authority to find ways of doing things where minor errors will occur that to the individual will not amount to much, but over millions and millions of people will make a tidy sum for the transit authority.
[19:42.680 --> 19:46.280]  I've noticed something else new that is of that same genre.
[19:47.920 --> 19:58.440]  It used to be for quite some time that the MetroCard vending machines, if you had an expired but not overly expired card.
[19:58.520 --> 20:01.360]  In other words, a card that was more than...
[20:01.360 --> 20:03.120]  It still has money on it, but it's expired.
[20:03.480 --> 20:06.940]  Right, but not more than a year past its expiration date.
[20:07.100 --> 20:16.080]  If a card, a paper ride card, one that deducts the fare every time you use it, if it is more than a year old and still has money on it, you cannot get it off.
[20:16.120 --> 20:19.720]  That's been the policy since MetroCards came into existence ten years ago.
[20:19.720 --> 20:28.520]  So, it used to be that you would go to the booth, the freestanding card reader or the MetroCard vending machine would tell you how much money is on there.
[20:30.500 --> 20:37.560]  Now, or rather, previously, if you went to the freestanding MetroCard vending machine, you could get the money off and put it on a new card.
[20:37.700 --> 20:38.580]  You would try to add.
[20:38.680 --> 20:40.040]  It would say, you can't add.
[20:40.040 --> 20:40.880]  Would you like a new card?
[20:40.880 --> 20:41.800]  This card is expired.
[20:42.000 --> 20:45.440]  You'd say, yes, it would give you a new card with the money transferred onto it.
[20:45.800 --> 20:51.380]  Now, it does not do that if that card is expired and it does not tell you how much money is on that card.
[20:51.520 --> 21:03.160]  It says, card not valid for refill, which is the same thing it says if it's a BEND card, if it's an unlimited card that you're trying to add money on, which you can't do.
[21:03.840 --> 21:06.140]  All of them say, card not valid for refill.
[21:06.460 --> 21:09.000]  So you will not believe that you have money on this.
[21:09.080 --> 21:13.680]  You will just discard that card and the TA will make the seniorage, as it's called.
[21:14.040 --> 21:14.360]  Interesting.
[21:14.460 --> 21:14.780]  Seniorage.
[21:14.820 --> 21:15.520]  I have a word for this.
[21:15.720 --> 21:16.840]  Well, that's...
[21:16.840 --> 21:28.860]  I'm using the word that they use for the difference in when you coin money, the difference in what it costs to coin the money, the value of the mineral that you're using, the silver, the gold, and the face value of the coin.
[21:28.960 --> 21:30.340]  The difference is called seniorage.
[21:30.620 --> 21:30.940]  Interesting.
[21:31.100 --> 21:32.000]  What if you go to a booth?
[21:32.140 --> 21:32.820]  Will it still...
[21:32.820 --> 21:35.700]  Yeah, the clerk in the booth will be able to tell you how much is on.
[21:35.860 --> 21:43.560]  And the freestanding card readers, if you swipe it through, it will say, card expired on such and such a date, say dollar whatever on the card.
[21:43.580 --> 21:45.100]  So it will still tell you how much is on that?
[21:45.620 --> 21:47.060]  On the freestanding card readers.
[21:47.240 --> 21:49.360]  But the problem is they get dirty very, very often.
[21:49.420 --> 21:49.860]  Yeah, they do.
[21:49.960 --> 21:51.600]  And it will say, swipe again, swipe again.
[21:52.160 --> 21:52.540]  You'll get...
[21:52.540 --> 21:53.480]  They don't work very well.
[21:54.020 --> 21:55.720]  It's best to buy one of your own.
[21:55.820 --> 21:57.180]  Buy one of your own and have it in your house.
[21:57.300 --> 21:58.760]  That way you can clean it.
[21:59.040 --> 22:00.000]  There's some argument for that.
[22:00.120 --> 22:00.980]  Bernie, you had a question.
[22:01.420 --> 22:04.680]  Jim, what's the idea behind the expiration date in the first place?
[22:04.740 --> 22:06.920]  This one year sort of semi-expiration?
[22:07.080 --> 22:08.960]  Is it just the whole point of it just to bilk people?
[22:09.320 --> 22:10.160]  I don't know.
[22:10.260 --> 22:10.680]  I don't know.
[22:10.800 --> 22:11.960]  That may be a side effect.
[22:11.960 --> 22:14.200]  I think the reason is the cards wear out.
[22:14.460 --> 22:14.820]  They do.
[22:15.040 --> 22:16.380]  And they're covering themselves that way.
[22:16.480 --> 22:18.460]  Otherwise, everyone's going to be complaining that card doesn't work.
[22:18.680 --> 22:18.860]  Right.
[22:19.000 --> 22:21.940]  Suppose cards were tough to get.
[22:22.080 --> 22:23.700]  Suppose there was like a $10 deposit fee.
[22:23.980 --> 22:27.340]  People would use the cards until they start falling apart and simply couldn't be read.
[22:28.140 --> 22:29.400]  I think that's the issue.
[22:29.400 --> 22:34.300]  And usually the expiration date is at least a year and a half ahead of the time that you get it.
[22:34.640 --> 22:36.020]  Why is everyone taking their Metro cards out?
[22:36.200 --> 22:36.860]  What are we going to prove here?
[22:36.860 --> 22:41.960]  Well, you've got to look at the condition of the used card and the new card.
[22:42.200 --> 22:42.440]  Yeah.
[22:42.560 --> 22:46.100]  I think our listeners are certainly looking at those cards right now.
[22:46.240 --> 22:48.520]  The used card actually looks better than the new card to me.
[22:48.960 --> 22:49.860]  You like this one better?
[22:49.880 --> 22:51.600]  Well, the colors seem a little more vibrant.
[22:51.600 --> 22:52.560]  I have a fresh one.
[22:52.800 --> 22:53.060]  All right.
[22:53.180 --> 23:01.980]  Let me just say one more other thing about mass transit in the city from the other mass transit organization, Port Authority, and their great invention, the air train, which nobody's using.
[23:02.820 --> 23:08.040]  I've picked up people a couple of times at airports, and I've advised them to use the air train because I think it's kind of cool.
[23:08.360 --> 23:09.380]  But it's $5.
[23:09.760 --> 23:09.840]  Yeah.
[23:09.960 --> 23:11.760]  You have ads for it on the back of the Metro cards.
[23:11.760 --> 23:12.040]  Yeah.
[23:12.140 --> 23:13.500]  On that one, not on the other one.
[23:14.320 --> 23:15.720]  And nobody's using this thing.
[23:15.980 --> 23:16.640]  I mean, nobody.
[23:17.260 --> 23:22.760]  I counted maybe 10 people going through the entire system at Jamaica in a half hour.
[23:22.880 --> 23:24.580]  A half hour, that's a pretty busy time.
[23:25.000 --> 23:33.960]  And they have just as many employees standing around telling people how to get through the turnstiles and how to buy Metro cards and things like that, which really makes up for the driverless trains.
[23:34.080 --> 23:42.080]  But speaking of the driverless trains that go from Jamaica and Howard Beach to JFK, we went there the first day, and of course, it was malfunctioning.
[23:42.160 --> 23:44.520]  The doors were opening and closing, and nobody knew how to control it.
[23:46.040 --> 23:54.440]  Now, I've heard a couple of different instances where, inexplicably, people have been on this thing, and the train has routed itself to the yard with passengers.
[23:54.860 --> 23:55.180]  Great.
[23:55.300 --> 24:02.200]  So, can you imagine being late for an airplane, and all of a sudden, your air train decides to take a trip to the yard, and that's where you wind up going?
[24:03.460 --> 24:05.060]  I would just love to see the reaction.
[24:06.260 --> 24:07.520]  Do they have cameras in them, Emmanuel?
[24:07.520 --> 24:09.520]  Yeah, okay, I guess we can see the reaction, then.
[24:09.940 --> 24:11.620]  Maybe they have microphones, too.
[24:12.300 --> 24:16.960]  Moving on to something a bit more serious, though, and this is something I'd really like to talk about, The Matrix Project.
[24:17.080 --> 24:17.800]  You guys familiar with this?
[24:18.240 --> 24:19.460]  The Matrix, which...
[24:19.460 --> 24:24.160]  Sounds like something from that movie, which I won't express an opinion on for fear of offending somebody.
[24:24.180 --> 24:24.900]  What's the name of that movie, too?
[24:24.920 --> 24:26.960]  Hugo Weaving, Keanu Reeves...
[24:26.960 --> 24:30.820]  Well, it was the Multi-State Anti-Terrorism Information Exchange.
[24:30.900 --> 24:32.200]  That's what Matrix stands for.
[24:32.280 --> 24:38.360]  I don't know how nonsense you've heard, but basically, there's all kinds of controversy, controversy about this.
[24:38.800 --> 24:43.180]  And that's something I'd like to analyze today, is why is this controversial?
[24:43.580 --> 24:51.740]  I find it interesting that every time they make some sort of anti-terrorist organization or a law, they slap on a popular name like Patriot.
[24:51.920 --> 24:52.560]  Yeah, you need a good acronym.
[24:52.740 --> 24:53.560]  It's all marketing.
[24:53.780 --> 24:54.240]  It's all marketing.
[24:54.700 --> 25:03.560]  Anyway, privacy worries have led several states to pull out of the federally funded crime and terrorism database project, and others are actively considering joining.
[25:03.720 --> 25:05.260]  Do you know New York is already part of this?
[25:05.540 --> 25:06.440]  For a while now.
[25:06.700 --> 25:06.820]  Yeah.
[25:07.160 --> 25:11.600]  Now, the Florida State Police actually runs the Matrix project.
[25:12.360 --> 25:13.120]  Wait, wait, wait.
[25:13.160 --> 25:16.080]  So all my data, because I live in New York, goes to Florida?
[25:16.300 --> 25:17.920]  Well, it goes all over the place, apparently.
[25:18.720 --> 25:23.300]  All the officials in Iowa and North Carolina are thinking about joining the system.
[25:24.120 --> 25:37.980]  Documents obtained through a public records request in Florida indicate Arizona and Arkansas also may have interest in the Quick Access Information Repository, which basically combines state records with 20 billion pieces of data held by a private company.
[25:38.240 --> 25:40.400]  Now, that's where it starts getting a little scary.
[25:40.580 --> 25:42.540]  You know, it's not just law enforcement records here.
[25:42.580 --> 25:45.900]  It's all kinds of information that a private company is gathering.
[25:49.180 --> 25:54.180]  Basically, this database project was created so states and local authorities can track would be terrorists.
[25:54.640 --> 25:55.780]  Well, it's all good then, isn't it?
[25:56.140 --> 25:57.600]  And also criminal fugitives.
[25:57.680 --> 25:57.980]  Why not?
[25:58.680 --> 26:06.800]  And it's being built and housed, or it has been built and housed, in the offices of a private company, but will be open to some federal law enforcers and perhaps even U.S.
[26:06.980 --> 26:08.020]  intelligence agencies.
[26:08.860 --> 26:19.360]  Now, the database has been in use for about almost two years in Florida, where police praise the crime-fighting tool as nimble and exhaustive, which is words that cops usually don't use.
[26:20.860 --> 26:33.200]  It cross-references the state's driving records and restricted police files with billions of pieces of public and private data, including credit reports and property records.
[26:34.020 --> 26:41.020]  So, all this information is now at the fingertips of all law enforcement people who want to look you up.
[26:41.540 --> 26:43.320]  Now, it goes beyond that, too.
[26:43.600 --> 26:48.480]  There's all kinds of other bits of information there that they claim are available through public databases.
[26:48.720 --> 26:59.520]  But if you piece all of that together, imagine piecing together all of your Usenet posts or something, or, you know, everybody that you've sent mail to, which actually is something that is not that hard to get.
[27:00.840 --> 27:07.320]  Might not be legal, but there's bits of information that they can obtain and not tell you what they are, because you don't really have the right to look at this.
[27:07.380 --> 27:09.920]  Look what happens when you ask some questions here.
[27:09.920 --> 27:21.240]  If you go to their website, which is www.matrix-at.org, and there's a very good question asked at the end.
[27:21.320 --> 27:24.740]  Can the public review the Matrix pilot project data concerning themselves?
[27:24.940 --> 27:25.960]  The answer is no.
[27:26.780 --> 27:31.940]  Members of the public cannot access individually identifiable information on themselves or others.
[27:32.580 --> 27:39.540]  Persons wishing to access data pertaining to themselves should communicate directly with the agency or entity that is the source of the data in question.
[27:40.280 --> 27:44.860]  If you knew who the source was, then you wouldn't need to find out what the data was, would you?
[27:45.280 --> 27:50.360]  So the goal, then, is to get a job as a cop, and you can have all the access you want.
[27:50.640 --> 27:52.100]  But then you'll have to be a cop.
[27:52.260 --> 27:52.860]  Well, that's true.
[27:53.100 --> 27:55.800]  Which, I mean, some people may want that, but others don't.
[27:56.140 --> 28:02.900]  See, I mean, this is being sold as a way to keep everybody safe, and a lot of it sounds good on face value.
[28:02.900 --> 28:05.740]  Of course, you want to be able to track dangerous people, but this is more than that.
[28:05.840 --> 28:08.120]  This is tracking everything that everybody does.
[28:08.740 --> 28:12.460]  Now, they can say that they have all kinds of security measures to protect people.
[28:13.400 --> 28:26.320]  On their site, they say, use of applications available through the Matrix project is guided by the premise that law enforcement agencies should not access, analyze, or use personal information on individuals without a nexus to suspected terrorist or other illegal activity.
[28:26.740 --> 28:27.840]  No, they'll never do that.
[28:28.240 --> 28:30.580]  I like how they say, other illegal.
[28:30.580 --> 28:32.400]  Or other illegal, like it's...
[28:32.920 --> 28:33.280]  Yeah.
[28:33.460 --> 28:35.020]  That was the whole reason for the Patriot Act.
[28:35.120 --> 28:38.200]  If you look at it, it was like three things, and the third thing was like, and other things.
[28:39.000 --> 28:43.060]  Well, it's also, they're operating on a premise, not carefully laid out regulations.
[28:43.280 --> 28:45.040]  Just, you know, it's a good idea, guys, to do it this way.
[28:45.100 --> 29:00.760]  Now, in case you're concerned, the Florida Department of Law Enforcement, FDLE, is acting as the security agent for the Matrix project, and they will take necessary measures to make certain that access to the Matrix applications is secure to prevent any unauthorized access or use.
[29:02.260 --> 29:09.260]  So, you're not talking about a federal judge or somebody overlooking this, we're talking about law enforcement themselves watching over this and making sure that they don't abuse it.
[29:09.560 --> 29:16.220]  I mean, not just any law enforcement, Florida law enforcement, which does not have, you know, is not even the best of a bad bunch.
[29:17.500 --> 29:20.200]  Yeah, it's a frightening thing, it really is.
[29:20.200 --> 29:22.360]  Oh, and this is also kind of funny, too.
[29:22.960 --> 29:34.440]  The, basically, Louisiana, they're saying that their police will not participate because of lingering concerns about the security records that would be sent to the database.
[29:36.400 --> 29:37.720]  But this is really interesting.
[29:37.900 --> 29:52.600]  The most disappointing part of it all, according to Louisiana, was that state officials had to learn from news reports that the company, which is known as Celsint, their founder, Hank Asher, had admitted piloting flights for cocaine smugglers in the 1980s.
[29:53.780 --> 29:55.100]  He's since resigned from the board.
[29:55.180 --> 29:58.700]  But don't you think it's kind of interesting that they couldn't do a background check on the guy running the company?
[29:59.000 --> 30:02.720]  And they want to do a background check on every American with billions of bits of information?
[30:04.260 --> 30:05.480]  So, a little bit of irony there.
[30:06.340 --> 30:09.000]  All right, so, uh, are we in the Matrix?
[30:09.300 --> 30:10.060]  We probably are.
[30:10.380 --> 30:14.560]  And we should try to find out, uh, how we got there and what information is in there about us.
[30:14.560 --> 30:19.760]  Of course, we have to contact the people that put the information in there, which means if we don't know what the information is, we'll never find out.
[30:19.900 --> 30:21.140]  We're not allowed to find out.
[30:21.260 --> 30:24.840]  Are we allowed to find out what organization's given to the Matrix?
[30:25.040 --> 30:29.580]  I was looking for that, actually, and I didn't see any information specifically saying that.
[30:29.600 --> 30:33.240]  They just said that they were able to get it from public information and private information as well.
[30:33.400 --> 30:34.700]  Very, about as vague as you can get.
[30:34.860 --> 30:38.540]  You should file a Freedom of Information Act with Florida Law Enforcement and with this company.
[30:38.540 --> 30:44.060]  Well, I need to go back in time to do that because I don't think, uh, I'll get very good answers today if I file a Freedom of Information Act.
[30:44.320 --> 30:47.460]  And ask them, well, try, and ask them what organizations give information.
[30:48.080 --> 30:50.300]  No, no, no, FOIA only applies to the federal government.
[30:50.400 --> 30:51.660]  The state can do whatever it wants.
[30:51.760 --> 30:53.000]  Well, there must be someone in Florida.
[30:53.580 --> 31:04.040]  There are FOIA equivalents in different states, but again, I never had much faith in that whole process because you're asking the people that are keeping the secrets to reveal them, and they're the ones supervising it.
[31:05.120 --> 31:14.800]  Anyway, um, speaking of privacy concerns, of course, the whole Janet Jackson craziness that went on in the Super Bowl, everyone's talking about that, but, uh, other people are talking about a different issue.
[31:14.820 --> 31:18.060]  You know, you say everyone is talking about that, I really hope that we wouldn't be talking about it.
[31:18.300 --> 31:23.680]  Well, we are, because there's privacy issues involved, and, um, regardless, it's, uh, it's an important issue.
[31:24.060 --> 31:41.080]  Uh, people's television monitoring habits are being analyzed by TiVo, which is a very popular, uh, um, um, device that many people swear by, but did you know, did you know that, uh, TiVo knows how many times you have looked at something, frozen something,
[31:41.400 --> 31:45.260]  rewound, uh, gone in slow motion, various things like that?
[31:45.260 --> 31:58.240]  Um, the Monday after the Super Bowl, TiVo said the exposure of Jackson's breast during her halftime performance was the most watched moment to date on its device, which, when combined with the TiVo subscription service, lets viewers pause and rewind live television broadcast,
[31:58.520 --> 31:59.280]  among other features.
[31:59.880 --> 32:04.220]  Now, of course, people, people heard about this, and they're like, wait a minute, what are you talking about?
[32:04.380 --> 32:08.200]  You can tell what I, what I freeze frame on, and what I'm looking at, and what I'm watching?
[32:08.580 --> 32:12.740]  And a TiVo spokesman said, yeah, you know, the company operates well within established privacy parameters.
[32:12.740 --> 32:23.180]  Uh, for years, TiVo has disclosed its data gathering practices and user agreements, you know, those things nobody ever reads, saying it strips out any information that could be traced back to an individual viewer.
[32:23.800 --> 32:31.220]  Now, my question is, okay, they say this, fine, they, they, they strip out anything that, um, uh, that, that can go back to an individual person.
[32:31.220 --> 32:40.060]  But what if, what if somebody is, um, is under scrutiny by, by the, these matrix people, for instance, and they're asked not to do that.
[32:40.220 --> 32:41.940]  They're asked because they're investigating a terrorist.
[32:42.100 --> 32:45.420]  They'd like to know what TV programs he's watching and what he's, uh, focusing on.
[32:45.740 --> 32:48.260]  Could you maybe just not strip out the information there and give it to us?
[32:48.340 --> 32:49.060]  Do you think they would?
[32:49.660 --> 32:50.840]  I think it's quite likely.
[32:51.380 --> 32:57.560]  The one thing people forget is that a law enforcement subpoena trumps all privacy policy.
[32:57.560 --> 32:58.520]  Exactly, exactly.
[32:58.720 --> 32:59.620]  And that's what can happen here.
[32:59.700 --> 33:06.200]  When you have the ability put into a common device like this, you're pretty much giving a license to law enforcement to abuse it.
[33:06.280 --> 33:06.720]  And they will.
[33:06.920 --> 33:07.920]  They most definitely will.
[33:08.140 --> 33:19.160]  Because, just like weapons of mass destruction, they will claim something exists, use that to get their foot in the door, and then when it doesn't pan out quite the way that they, they, they thought it would, they'll just say, well, you know, we're better off.
[33:19.500 --> 33:20.100]  We have bad information.
[33:20.360 --> 33:20.780]  We have bad information.
[33:20.780 --> 33:21.480]  It wasn't our fault.
[33:21.580 --> 33:22.480]  We acted on good faith.
[33:23.680 --> 33:31.980]  Anyway, uh, spokesman Scott Sutherland of Tevo says, I can understand people's concerns, but when weighted against reality, they are unfounded.
[33:33.040 --> 33:35.460]  I love it when people bring reality into their corner.
[33:35.660 --> 33:39.620]  You know, reality is, uh, it's on my side, and, uh, you're, you're all crazy.
[33:40.400 --> 33:50.820]  Um, so basically, that's, um, these are devices known as DVRs, which, uh, function like VCRs, but, uh, they record shows on a hard disk instead of on videotape.
[33:51.300 --> 33:55.380]  Uh, they bring interactive features to TV that, uh, have been promising to transform the industry.
[33:55.380 --> 33:57.260]  And they're going to be transforming privacy as well.
[33:57.400 --> 34:01.700]  Just a side note, it also beat Google in the number of searches.
[34:01.840 --> 34:05.440]  It beats, uh, it beats September 11th in the number of searches on Google.
[34:05.600 --> 34:07.300]  And that just tells me what's wrong with this country.
[34:07.500 --> 34:11.260]  The fact that people are so obsessed with this, it's, it's unbelievable.
[34:11.560 --> 34:12.200]  It really is unbelievable.
[34:12.260 --> 34:14.240]  I mean, you can even hear about it on hacker shows.
[34:14.240 --> 34:19.500]  Well, if you don't see the, the, the, the relationship to privacy and technology, I, I pity you.
[34:20.060 --> 34:22.720]  There are devices, Emmanuel, uh, like TiVo.
[34:22.880 --> 34:27.280]  I don't know what names of them off the top of my head, but you can find them if you research it on the internet.
[34:27.520 --> 34:37.460]  There are, there are DVRs, there we go, there are DVRs that do not, uh, require you to share all your viewing habits with, with, with a corporation or law enforcement.
[34:37.460 --> 34:40.340]  Well, what, when, when they say that, what exactly do they mean?
[34:40.400 --> 34:42.160]  Do they say that they're not going to collect this?
[34:42.260 --> 34:44.080]  Because they certainly can collect this information.
[34:44.520 --> 34:54.300]  Well, it's a passive, I mean, it's, it, a DVR by its nature is a passive device unless there's some way to get the data back to, um, the people who are monitoring you.
[34:54.520 --> 34:57.860]  Yeah, the TiVo has, you got to plug it into a phone line for it to work.
[34:58.120 --> 34:59.560]  Well, guess what goes over that phone line?
[34:59.680 --> 35:00.760]  There's all your private information.
[35:00.960 --> 35:01.140]  Right.
[35:01.260 --> 35:04.520]  So there are DVRs that don't require you to be plugged into a phone line.
[35:04.520 --> 35:11.000]  And suppose you've got a, you know, a, a satellite dish or something, and one of these DVRs, it doesn't require a phone line connection.
[35:11.420 --> 35:14.200]  Um, there's no way that data can possibly get to anyone.
[35:14.340 --> 35:17.740]  It's sit in a box, and your satellite is a receive-only thing.
[35:17.840 --> 35:18.820]  Well, that's the thing, Bernie.
[35:18.900 --> 35:19.340]  That's the thing.
[35:19.440 --> 35:26.880]  Now, I've heard that some people that have, um, have small-dish, uh, internet access, now the uplink is going over the dish.
[35:27.120 --> 35:28.420]  Oh, well, that's the two-way thing.
[35:28.520 --> 35:31.300]  But the, the vast majority of these things are receive-only dishes.
[35:31.300 --> 35:35.480]  Okay, well, well, a few years ago, it was unheard of to have an uplink on something that small.
[35:35.680 --> 35:38.740]  Now, now we're, we're moving into the stage where we can uplink there.
[35:39.140 --> 35:43.020]  Once that's the case, how are you ever going to be able to tell if something is being uplinked on the satellite?
[35:43.420 --> 35:45.440]  Unless you have your own sniffer, I guess you're not going to know.
[35:45.640 --> 35:48.200]  Yeah, you can't unplug the satellite dish because then you have no service.
[35:48.880 --> 35:54.360]  Well, here's an exercise for the ambitious hacker or TiVo employee, disgruntled TiVo employee.
[35:54.360 --> 36:05.120]  Uh, let us know how to install something on the phone line that we can control the information going back, hack it, so to speak, and, uh, mis, mislead people.
[36:05.380 --> 36:08.860]  You know, we're watching the 700 Club constantly, 24 hours a day.
[36:09.180 --> 36:19.520]  Well, you know, that's the thing, you know, this reminds me of something that, uh, someone wrote in years ago, uh, that, uh, worked for Blockbuster, uh, where they, they said that, uh, everybody's viewing habits were logged in a computer.
[36:19.520 --> 36:25.260]  So you knew what film somebody took out, and wouldn't that be an interesting bit of information for law enforcement to get their hands on?
[36:25.420 --> 36:32.020]  Let's say somebody, you know, rented a taxi driver 20 times in a year, or, you know, slasher films and things like that.
[36:32.120 --> 36:34.680]  They wanted to see people that might, uh, be potential criminals.
[36:34.680 --> 36:36.080]  This would be a great database to have.
[36:36.280 --> 36:45.240]  Well, similarly, TiVo and Replay TV and all these devices can have the information on the programs that you like to watch, the things that, that you seem to be fascinated with.
[36:45.240 --> 36:50.760]  If maybe you're watching too many, uh, programs with children in them, and you don't have any children of your own, that's suspicious, isn't it?
[36:50.980 --> 36:52.100]  Maybe we should keep an eye on you.
[36:52.540 --> 36:54.140]  You know, it's all very possible.
[36:54.340 --> 36:58.260]  They can, they can make this work with the technology very easily, tie it into this whole Matrix thing.
[36:58.480 --> 37:02.260]  Hey, you know, the, the, the data of what you watch can even be part of Matrix someday.
[37:02.540 --> 37:06.160]  Yeah, but last night I taped the dog show, and I don't own a dog.
[37:07.120 --> 37:08.500]  I've always had my doubts about you.
[37:09.480 --> 37:10.200]  Robert Bork.
[37:10.440 --> 37:10.980]  Remember him?
[37:11.200 --> 37:12.240]  Yeah, I certainly do.
[37:12.720 --> 37:22.340]  Robert Bork was the first, uh, person I recall whose, uh, TV, uh, or whose, uh, video rental records were first publicized nationally.
[37:23.140 --> 37:26.960]  And, um, you know, that, that should have made people wake up, and this was what?
[37:27.200 --> 37:29.160]  That was back in 80, what, 87?
[37:29.480 --> 37:29.620]  Right.
[37:29.800 --> 37:30.760]  Wasn't he the Surgeon General?
[37:30.960 --> 37:31.840]  So, imagine his...
[37:31.840 --> 37:32.160]  No, no, no.
[37:32.600 --> 37:33.860]  He was a Supreme Court nominee.
[37:34.120 --> 37:35.140]  Oh, that's right, that's right.
[37:42.240 --> 37:44.500]  Somebody that's being nominated for some important position.
[37:44.800 --> 37:46.340]  That's something that people are going to want to know about.
[37:46.500 --> 37:47.680]  The problem is...
[37:47.680 --> 37:51.120]  Is this guy watching Playboy TV, or is he, you know, watching, uh, the Christian broadcasting?
[37:51.320 --> 37:57.300]  It's just like Moynihan and dumbing, uh, uh, defining deviance down.
[37:57.860 --> 37:59.840]  Uh, it works with anything.
[38:00.120 --> 38:03.440]  The threshold on privacy is being defined down.
[38:03.980 --> 38:11.300]  Uh, 40 years ago, this would have been shocking if somebody, uh, you know, wanted you, the list of what you took out of the library.
[38:11.300 --> 38:15.660]  It would be immediately harkened back to communist and, and Hitlerian techniques.
[38:16.300 --> 38:20.880]  Now, uh, with Bork and with TiVo, it's just, oh, yeah, that's interesting.
[38:21.080 --> 38:22.960]  It's the most, uh, reround thing on TV.
[38:23.160 --> 38:24.600]  And it's for our own protection.
[38:25.040 --> 38:31.840]  The sad, the sad part is, it could be, uh, a child or a friend in the house that was doing all of that activity, but you get the credit.
[38:32.220 --> 38:34.300]  Just like somebody making phone calls on your phone line.
[38:34.440 --> 38:34.780]  Exactly.
[38:35.600 --> 38:37.080]  Well, it's, um...
[38:37.080 --> 38:39.760]  We're using your wireless internet connection without you knowing about it.
[38:39.800 --> 38:40.980]  Yeah, it's a sad state of affairs.
[38:40.980 --> 38:44.680]  But, um, we'd like to hear from people as far as, uh, their, uh, feedback on this.
[38:44.740 --> 38:45.940]  OTH at 2600.com.
[38:46.080 --> 38:48.620]  You can call us, 212-209-2900.
[38:49.180 --> 38:53.040]  Um, I'd like to just go through a couple other quick news stories, and we can maybe take some phone calls.
[38:53.600 --> 38:59.320]  Um, basically, telemarketers also, uh, are going to have less privacy, if that's how they even consider what they do.
[38:59.700 --> 39:05.300]  Uh, caller ID, which, by the way, caller ID, we were just talking about the things that were unheard of years ago.
[39:05.740 --> 39:07.680]  You know, listen to the radio show 10 years ago.
[39:07.680 --> 39:11.460]  Caller ID was the big controversy, whether that was going to invade our privacy.
[39:11.620 --> 39:15.540]  And now everybody uses caller ID, and people don't care about the privacy aspects of it anymore.
[39:15.540 --> 39:17.600]  You just know who's calling you when they call you now.
[39:17.760 --> 39:22.980]  And, uh, um, it just seems like we're forgetting certain concerns that we used to have.
[39:22.980 --> 39:25.720]  And, um, the whole way of thinking is changing as a result.
[39:26.020 --> 39:32.820]  Anyway, caller ID has, uh, long been a handy, if somewhat unreliable weapon to help ward off those pesky dinnertime calls from telemarketers.
[39:33.580 --> 39:41.260]  Um, starting on January 29th, though, those calls and the companies making them should be clearly identifiable on your caller ID display.
[39:41.380 --> 39:44.340]  Have you gotten a, uh, telemarketing call since January 29th?
[39:44.560 --> 39:46.860]  Has it shown the name of the company and the phone number?
[39:47.020 --> 39:47.860]  It's supposed to.
[39:48.400 --> 39:55.260]  Telemarketing firms must begin complying with new federal rules that require them to display their name and a phone number where they can be reached.
[39:55.480 --> 40:02.540]  Now, we all know that, um, calls from telemarketers often show up as unavailable, sometimes blocked call, and they don't include a callback number.
[40:02.800 --> 40:13.520]  Uh, now every solicitation must transmit the name of the seller or company making the call, plus a number that will be answered during normal business hours, so the consumer can contact the business and request not to be called again.
[40:14.200 --> 40:16.700]  If they don't do this, they have to pay a fine.
[40:16.700 --> 40:17.900]  And, of course, the fine doesn't go to you.
[40:18.060 --> 40:22.760]  It should, but it goes to some agency, which hopefully can make, uh, this thing stick.
[40:23.000 --> 40:25.880]  Notice, it won't show the number that they're calling from.
[40:26.200 --> 40:31.500]  It shows the number of their choosing that they say that you can call during normal business hours.
[40:31.520 --> 40:34.560]  I can sort of see that, because, Bernie, why would you want to call an autodial?
[40:35.120 --> 40:37.740]  I mean, I'd want to call an autodial, but why would the average person?
[40:37.860 --> 40:44.980]  It's just interesting, and it proves that caller ID can be manipulated to show any number you want it to show, and the telemarketers can do that.
[40:44.980 --> 40:46.500]  They can show that they're calling.
[40:46.780 --> 40:51.300]  Just because a number shows up on the caller ID display from them, it doesn't mean they're calling from that number.
[40:51.500 --> 40:54.900]  So they could really make it have any number that, you know, maybe nobody answers.
[40:55.040 --> 40:56.840]  You go into an endless hold queue or something.
[40:57.300 --> 41:00.020]  Yeah, they could spoof another telemarketer's phone number, I guess.
[41:00.440 --> 41:00.660]  Sure.
[41:00.920 --> 41:03.240]  There'd be really no way to know for sure who called you in that case.
[41:03.400 --> 41:08.820]  People who don't comply are subject to a fine, but if they don't comply, you don't know who they are, so how do you ever collect the fine?
[41:08.920 --> 41:09.620]  That's going to be tough.
[41:09.620 --> 41:10.900]  Well, okay, how about this, though?
[41:10.900 --> 41:12.340]  They're calling you to get you to buy something.
[41:12.600 --> 41:17.580]  If you take the bait, and you know who they are, and they didn't send their caller ID, you can get them that way.
[41:18.220 --> 41:19.620]  But you might have to buy something.
[41:19.680 --> 41:20.580]  You might have to buy something.
[41:21.660 --> 41:23.260]  Well, I mean, there's a sacrifice made every day.
[41:23.680 --> 41:26.820]  Then they'll say they have a business relationship with you already, so...
[41:27.180 --> 41:28.860]  And how do you prove they didn't give you the number?
[41:29.960 --> 41:34.600]  Yeah, there's all kinds of legal shenanigans that are going to have to be played out here.
[41:35.220 --> 41:40.800]  I'm sure with the telephone records, someone will be able to, from law enforcement, be able to pick out that they didn't send you the number.
[41:41.180 --> 41:45.540]  You have a copy of Extra, the newsletter from Verizon, which you've been bandying about for some time.
[41:45.540 --> 41:48.540]  Yeah, I have this because I just wanted to read something that has really been annoying me.
[41:49.160 --> 41:52.160]  Basically, they still have this little thing here under important information.
[41:52.340 --> 41:55.280]  Give your phone time to rest between calls.
[41:56.380 --> 41:57.500]  Yeah, I'm not kidding.
[41:57.620 --> 42:04.820]  To avoid placing a three-way call accidentally, hang up your phone for at least three seconds between every call, whether it's a three-way call or not.
[42:04.980 --> 42:07.460]  This will allow your phone line to reset itself.
[42:07.620 --> 42:13.020]  If you have a fax machine or modem that allows simultaneous dialing, be sure to program it to allow for three seconds between transmissions.
[42:13.300 --> 42:21.700]  Now, basically, the average person might look at this and say, oh, okay, I guess I've got to make my phone has to rest three seconds, equipment has to reset.
[42:21.700 --> 42:32.700]  This is a scam that Verizon has been perpetrating ever since it was called Verizon and Bell Atlantic and 9x before that, where they give everybody three-way, and then they charge you for using it.
[42:33.080 --> 42:38.780]  And three-way is used basically by simply flashing the switch hook and then making another phone call.
[42:38.860 --> 42:44.240]  So if you hang up the phone and pick up again immediately and make a phone call, it's going to think that it's a three-way call.
[42:44.360 --> 42:48.780]  It's going to charge you, I think, 75 cents per use, which is fine if that's what you want.
[42:48.840 --> 42:50.760]  But the majority of people don't want this.
[42:50.880 --> 42:58.680]  The majority of people don't even know they have it on their phone lines, and they wind up paying for something that they never asked for each time they use it, 75 cents per instance.
[42:59.740 --> 43:06.660]  So what I think Verizon should do is take it off everyone's phone line like it used to be and only give it to those people who specifically ask for it.
[43:07.820 --> 43:08.640]  Is that too radical?
[43:08.840 --> 43:09.100]  Not a chance.
[43:09.440 --> 43:14.760]  Well, I mean, I think people were aware of what these little coded transmissions on the phone bill actually mean.
[43:16.020 --> 43:17.460]  They would demand these things.
[43:17.560 --> 43:19.680]  It sounds like they're saying, oh, you know, your phone gets tired.
[43:19.780 --> 43:21.960]  It has to rest three seconds between calls.
[43:22.280 --> 43:23.540]  I mean, come on already.
[43:23.860 --> 43:26.920]  Designed by the same people who maximize income for the transit authority.
[43:26.920 --> 43:28.040]  It must be.
[43:28.200 --> 43:28.740]  It really must be.
[43:29.340 --> 43:30.840]  All right, 212-209-2900.
[43:30.920 --> 43:33.620]  Let's quickly go through some mail people have sent us.
[43:34.800 --> 43:37.580]  A few weeks back, you were mentioning that emblematic of U.S.
[43:37.700 --> 43:38.540]  media versus the world.
[43:38.660 --> 43:40.560]  CNN.com was running a poll for the U.S.
[43:40.960 --> 43:45.460]  audience about luxury gift items and a poll for the international audience about Iraq.
[43:45.680 --> 43:46.620]  Well, it's gotten even better.
[43:46.960 --> 43:54.840]  The world question the other day, or I guess a week or so ago, was the war in Iraq worth it even if no weapons of mass destruction are ever found?
[43:54.920 --> 43:55.600]  Answer, yes or no.
[43:55.600 --> 43:57.400]  That was what CNN International got.
[43:58.200 --> 44:00.380]  CNN Domestic in the United States got this question.
[44:00.560 --> 44:03.640]  Is it about time the comic strip character Kathy gets married?
[44:04.460 --> 44:05.620]  Yes, time to move on.
[44:05.700 --> 44:06.820]  No, it will destroy the strip.
[44:07.080 --> 44:08.740]  Ack, Kathy makes me scream.
[44:09.500 --> 44:11.120]  Thank you, Evan, for sending that one in.
[44:11.920 --> 44:14.080]  This person writes in, just wanted to say keep up the good work.
[44:14.140 --> 44:15.860]  I listen to lots of stuff on WBAI.
[44:15.940 --> 44:19.020]  And one of the things that I love about your show is that you do throw stuff around.
[44:19.020 --> 44:20.780]  Call people have technical blunders.
[44:20.960 --> 44:22.220]  You don't screen calls.
[44:22.220 --> 44:23.940]  And you never know what's going to happen next.
[44:24.680 --> 44:25.240]  Oh, yes.
[44:25.500 --> 44:34.720]  As far as people complaining about their premiums getting there in two weeks, you would think hacker-minded people would understand that you are not some super organized corporation and that they pledge to the station for the station and for off the hook,
[44:34.820 --> 44:35.760]  not for a tape or T-shirt.
[44:36.400 --> 44:37.260]  Signed, Linky.
[44:37.360 --> 44:38.400]  Thank you very much for that mail.
[44:38.640 --> 44:40.280]  I have to sort of take exception, though.
[44:40.420 --> 44:41.700]  People do have the right to get upset.
[44:41.960 --> 44:47.440]  In fact, this person writes in, upset about the video CDs that he has still not gotten.
[44:47.880 --> 44:49.040]  He pledged for in October.
[44:49.560 --> 44:50.760]  I've received no reply.
[44:50.780 --> 44:52.520]  I don't mind the wait at all for the CDs.
[44:52.640 --> 44:54.220]  But please, don't ignore my request for information.
[44:54.220 --> 44:57.720]  I pledged hard-earned money from a very small pile to support WBAI.
[44:57.900 --> 45:01.640]  Further calls for listener support will fall on deaf ears if you don't treat your listeners with respect.
[45:02.100 --> 45:02.600]  Signed, Bob.
[45:02.600 --> 45:04.520]  And, Bob, yes, I totally agree with that.
[45:04.640 --> 45:06.100]  And we should treat everybody with respect.
[45:06.420 --> 45:08.920]  The update on these premiums.
[45:08.960 --> 45:10.360]  The premiums are at WBAI.
[45:10.880 --> 45:15.980]  I hope they're not at WBAI anymore because we delivered them a while ago.
[45:16.580 --> 45:17.800]  I'm not sure exactly how long ago.
[45:17.820 --> 45:18.900]  Maybe ten days ago?
[45:19.160 --> 45:20.540]  They should have been sent out by now.
[45:20.640 --> 45:21.740]  If you haven't gotten them...
[45:21.740 --> 45:30.060]  Let's say if you haven't gotten something from the October fundraiser by next week's show, then send us an email, OTH at 28600.com.
[45:30.120 --> 45:32.520]  Otherwise, we have to assume that it's on its way to you.
[45:32.600 --> 45:34.260]  But you definitely, definitely should have it by then.
[45:34.440 --> 45:35.900]  That's, of course, assuming you paid.
[45:36.260 --> 45:38.580]  You have to pay for your... yeah, your pledge.
[45:38.880 --> 45:39.880]  The pledge is nice.
[45:39.920 --> 45:40.940]  We appreciate the pledges.
[45:41.140 --> 45:44.060]  But the important aspect to the pledge is that you pay the pledge.
[45:44.820 --> 45:46.780]  I have had to explain that to people sometimes.
[45:47.040 --> 45:48.580]  Oh, we thought you just wanted the number to go up.
[45:48.660 --> 45:48.980]  No, no.
[45:50.000 --> 45:52.360]  No, we want the money to actually show up as well.
[45:53.260 --> 45:56.320]  Okay, and the final piece of mail we're going to read, then we'll take some phone calls.
[45:56.320 --> 45:59.940]  The Pentagon will not be using an internet voting system for overseas U.S.
[46:00.300 --> 46:02.960]  citizens this fall because of concerns about its security.
[46:03.220 --> 46:08.140]  That's according to an official who was quoted last Thursday and demanded anonymity.
[46:09.620 --> 46:19.920]  Basically, Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz made the decision to scrap the system because Pentagon officials were not certain they could assure the legitimacy of votes that would be cast.
[46:19.920 --> 46:21.460]  What do you guys think about that?
[46:21.660 --> 46:23.280]  This shows that the Pentagon...
[46:23.280 --> 46:32.660]  It's rare for me to compliment the Pentagon, as regular listeners know, but it seems to show that the Pentagon, in this issue at least, has more sense than the country of Ireland and several U.S.
[46:32.820 --> 46:35.340]  jurisdictions, which say, oh, there are problems, we don't care.
[46:36.400 --> 46:41.100]  Yeah, and basically the Secure Electronic Registration and Voting Experiment, Greg Heck, you'll like this.
[46:41.140 --> 46:41.960]  It spells out serve.
[46:43.600 --> 46:52.360]  They actually reviewed electronic voting systems, and they had urged the Pentagon to scrap that very system, saying it was too vulnerable.
[46:52.980 --> 46:55.340]  And get this, they said it could be penetrated by hackers.
[46:55.620 --> 47:02.980]  Yeah, it's great how the hackers get blamed for the gaping security holes because they're the only ones that could possibly want to take this thing down.
[47:03.340 --> 47:10.440]  They said internet voting presents far too many opportunities for hackers or even terrorists to interfere with fair and accurate voting.
[47:10.440 --> 47:12.220]  Put them in one big lump sum there.
[47:12.500 --> 47:15.020]  Potentially in ways impossible to detect.
[47:15.240 --> 47:19.120]  Some tampering could alter election results, particularly in close contests.
[47:20.400 --> 47:21.480]  Yeah, all right.
[47:23.400 --> 47:24.520]  212-209-2900.
[47:24.600 --> 47:26.220]  Sorry, take a phone call or two.
[47:26.960 --> 47:27.660]  Pick a number, Jeff.
[47:28.100 --> 47:28.900]  Oh, ten.
[47:29.200 --> 47:29.380]  Ten?
[47:29.860 --> 47:30.320]  Ten's not...
[47:30.320 --> 47:30.500]  Okay.
[47:31.140 --> 47:31.700]  There we go.
[47:32.380 --> 47:32.600]  Oh.
[47:33.120 --> 47:33.440]  Whoops.
[47:33.520 --> 47:34.200]  Oh, you lost her.
[47:34.340 --> 47:34.520]  Ugh.
[47:34.720 --> 47:36.060]  Well, the line wasn't lit up there.
[47:36.140 --> 47:36.280]  Hold on.
[47:36.300 --> 47:36.500]  It was.
[47:36.560 --> 47:36.820]  It did.
[47:37.260 --> 47:37.900]  It's delayed.
[47:38.060 --> 47:38.800]  Okay, I'm sorry about that.
[47:38.840 --> 47:39.380]  Let's hit this one.
[47:39.460 --> 47:39.680]  Good evening.
[47:39.720 --> 47:40.140]  You're on the air.
[47:40.440 --> 47:43.640]  Yeah, I want to mention a lot of things that you're talking about tonight.
[47:43.960 --> 47:45.540]  Well, you have 30 seconds, Rebel.
[47:45.720 --> 47:45.860]  Okay.
[47:46.560 --> 47:47.020]  Let's see.
[47:47.020 --> 47:49.620]  You're talking about telemarketers and things like that.
[47:49.620 --> 47:50.580]  We know what we're talking about.
[47:50.740 --> 47:51.740]  Talk about what you're talking about.
[47:51.880 --> 47:53.380]  Well, you're talking about credit cards.
[47:53.520 --> 48:04.680]  When you call Chase, you know, with the credit card company, you know, when you talk about your bill and things, after you talk about your bill, they come in and say, oh, we'd like to also mention we have a privacy guard.
[48:04.840 --> 48:08.260]  If your credit card is ever stolen or if you lose your job...
[48:08.260 --> 48:11.660]  You're saying after you talk to them on the phone, they actually want to extend the conversation?
[48:11.920 --> 48:12.640]  Well, they don't.
[48:12.740 --> 48:13.240]  They do.
[48:13.460 --> 48:14.780]  They want to sell more stuff.
[48:14.980 --> 48:15.560]  Nothing new there.
[48:16.040 --> 48:16.300]  Yeah.
[48:16.520 --> 48:17.400]  Okay, we know that, Rebel.
[48:17.500 --> 48:17.940]  Anything else?
[48:18.440 --> 48:18.920]  Let's see.
[48:19.020 --> 48:21.120]  Also about Verizon.
[48:21.340 --> 48:26.300]  Now, New Jersey Bell, Bell Atlantic in New Jersey, they sell touchtone seats.
[48:26.580 --> 48:28.040]  You know, they still charge you for touchtone.
[48:28.040 --> 48:28.700]  We know, yes.
[48:28.720 --> 48:29.260]  But wait a minute.
[48:29.280 --> 48:34.760]  When I called them to ask them about that, they said, oh, the $10 a month includes your touchtone and your dial tone.
[48:35.740 --> 48:41.040]  But when I asked them, oh, I don't want touchtone, did they sort of, like, covering up the touchtone fee?
[48:41.180 --> 48:44.240]  I don't think they know themselves what it is they're charging for.
[48:44.420 --> 48:49.200]  But, yes, it is still part of the whole, like, fee for service.
[48:50.540 --> 48:51.640]  So, it's a ripoff.
[48:51.780 --> 48:53.040]  It was a ripoff when it was in New York.
[48:53.060 --> 48:54.700]  It's a ripoff when it's still in New Jersey.
[48:54.840 --> 48:57.240]  People should demand that this thing be taken off their bill.
[48:57.440 --> 48:58.440]  Thanks so much for your call, Rebel.
[48:58.620 --> 48:59.680]  Let's take another phone call.
[48:59.760 --> 49:00.000]  Good evening.
[49:00.080 --> 49:00.540]  You're on the air.
[49:01.820 --> 49:02.320]  Go ahead.
[49:02.700 --> 49:02.960]  Hello.
[49:03.400 --> 49:05.320]  This is Barbie from New Jersey.
[49:05.600 --> 49:06.140]  How are you doing?
[49:06.140 --> 49:07.280]  Fine, fine.
[49:07.280 --> 49:08.280]  I just caught your show.
[49:08.780 --> 49:14.720]  I just wanted to ask, Gail, last year I had purchased a video CD player.
[49:15.020 --> 49:15.400]  Mm-hmm.
[49:15.880 --> 49:19.980]  And what I'd like to know is, is it possible to play DVDs on them?
[49:20.140 --> 49:21.820]  Not on a video CD player.
[49:22.080 --> 49:25.600]  You can play VCDs on a DVD player, but I don't believe it goes the other way.
[49:26.000 --> 49:26.500]  I see.
[49:26.960 --> 49:28.420]  By the way, what is the difference?
[49:29.120 --> 49:32.680]  Well, basically, video CDs are...
[49:32.680 --> 49:38.360]  They have the storage capacity of a compact disc, which is significantly less than a DVD.
[49:38.740 --> 49:40.220]  Maybe about, what, a tenth the size?
[49:40.540 --> 49:40.720]  Yeah.
[49:41.040 --> 49:44.840]  And obviously, the video won't be as high quality.
[49:45.000 --> 49:47.140]  There won't be as much of it being able to be stored.
[49:47.540 --> 49:49.420]  It's also a different compression algorithm.
[49:50.520 --> 49:53.200]  DVDs are MPEG-2, VCDs are MPEG-1.
[49:54.020 --> 49:59.500]  Not that that means anything to you, but the important thing is that DVDs can hold a lot more than at a higher quality.
[49:59.500 --> 50:01.620]  And for the system to be able to decode it with...
[50:01.620 --> 50:06.300]  it needs certain chips, which if it was just a pure video CD player, it probably wouldn't have.
[50:06.320 --> 50:13.460]  But on the other hand, video CDs can be played in most computers, whereas you need a special DVD drive to be able to play a DVD in a computer.
[50:13.780 --> 50:14.020]  Mm-hmm.
[50:14.420 --> 50:19.720]  Yeah, there's also a difference in terms of the laser used to read a DVD versus a CD.
[50:19.960 --> 50:26.480]  And that's not even getting into the whole DVD-R, DVD-RW, CD-RW, you could go crazy with all these different types of things.
[50:26.840 --> 50:27.540]  E-I-E-I-O.
[50:27.760 --> 50:27.920]  Yeah.
[50:28.120 --> 50:34.820]  But there's plenty of good video CDs out there, not the least of which are our own H2K2 VCDs, which are available online.
[50:35.940 --> 50:36.420]  All right.
[50:36.460 --> 50:37.140]  Thank you very much.
[50:37.240 --> 50:37.440]  Okay.
[50:37.540 --> 50:37.780]  Thanks.
[50:38.360 --> 50:40.380]  And a lot of movies get re-released in VCD.
[50:40.380 --> 50:42.480]  That was a lot more answer than I think was asked.
[50:42.820 --> 50:43.880]  Yeah, well, we like to be thorough.
[50:44.140 --> 50:45.240]  We always like to be thorough.
[50:45.600 --> 50:46.100]  Good evening.
[50:46.360 --> 50:47.180]  You're on the air.
[50:48.340 --> 50:48.740]  Hello.
[50:48.860 --> 50:49.140]  Go ahead.
[50:51.120 --> 50:52.560]  Well, that's a controversial view.
[50:53.420 --> 51:02.020]  They actually had kind of a good scene on 24 last night where they had the guy call up a fast-busy signal and not hang up.
[51:02.120 --> 51:09.040]  This reminded me of the days of old silver boxing when you used to call directory assistants and you'd hear a fast-busy like that and you weren't supposed to hang up.
[51:09.100 --> 51:12.200]  You hit a touchstone instead and it jumped into a different mode as a result of that.
[51:12.200 --> 51:15.220]  So, when you hear a fast-busy, it may not be a fast-busy.
[51:15.280 --> 51:16.720]  It might be a gateway to something else.
[51:17.320 --> 51:18.040]  The detone.
[51:18.240 --> 51:18.640]  That's right.
[51:18.700 --> 51:19.100]  The detone.
[51:19.140 --> 51:19.800]  That's what you used to use.
[51:19.900 --> 51:20.120]  Good evening.
[51:20.200 --> 51:20.560]  You're on the air.
[51:21.100 --> 51:21.380]  Yeah.
[51:21.700 --> 51:31.580]  I've been wondering about the actual much required vending machines and if they could possibly have like two-way cameras inside of them and something that could also record your fingerprints as you touched it.
[51:31.580 --> 51:33.780]  Well, I don't know about the fingerprint recording.
[51:33.880 --> 51:37.440]  That strikes me as kind of difficult, but not necessarily impossible.
[51:37.860 --> 51:38.460]  Give it 10 years.
[51:38.620 --> 51:39.320]  It's on a screen.
[51:39.680 --> 51:39.920]  Yeah.
[51:40.280 --> 51:44.240]  That's why I say it strikes me as difficult, but not impossible because a lot of people touch it.
[51:44.320 --> 51:47.880]  It would be tough to pick up yours through all the others.
[51:48.040 --> 51:52.580]  But as far as cameras within them, there is evidence of that actually happening.
[51:52.740 --> 51:55.240]  There have been photographs published in newspapers.
[51:56.860 --> 52:01.280]  I think it was the Daily News, supplied, of course, by the MTA New York City Transit.
[52:01.580 --> 52:07.980]  Of a guy tampering with a MetroCard vending machine taken from a hidden camera within the MetroCard vending machine.
[52:08.180 --> 52:08.540]  Yeah, exactly.
[52:08.640 --> 52:10.300]  I've always suspected that for quite some time.
[52:10.540 --> 52:15.040]  I would think that not all of them have it, but I may be very, very wrong.
[52:15.180 --> 52:18.320]  So if you're doing anything illegal, don't count on that for help.
[52:18.560 --> 52:19.740]  What about the actual...
[52:19.740 --> 52:26.980]  When you swipe the MetroCard, is there anything on there that can actually maybe like record your fingerprint on there as far as the laser?
[52:27.280 --> 52:27.600]  No.
[52:28.260 --> 52:31.120]  As far as swiping a MetroCard goes, no.
[52:31.120 --> 52:32.820]  Those things are pretty primitive.
[52:33.000 --> 52:36.700]  I've seen them, the people repairing them, and they're just a computer connected to it.
[52:36.740 --> 52:40.160]  On top of that, think of how you hold the MetroCard, okay?
[52:40.660 --> 52:43.940]  You generally have your thumb and forefinger on opposite sides of the card.
[52:44.240 --> 52:54.160]  Now, if you're a paranoid person, you've stuck your hand in your pocket, grab the MetroCard, take it out near the turnstile, swipe it through, and put your hand back in.
[52:54.160 --> 53:01.720]  At what point could a laser with some incredible optics actually get any sort of view of your thumb and forefinger?
[53:01.940 --> 53:02.860]  Okay, gotcha.
[53:03.100 --> 53:03.280]  All right.
[53:03.460 --> 53:07.700]  I am aware that they do use like certain MetroCards and like track certain people's movements.
[53:08.100 --> 53:11.260]  Well, yeah, they have to associate you with the MetroCard some way.
[53:11.480 --> 53:19.880]  Either you've bought it with a debit or credit card, or they've arrested you on some other suspicions afterwards, and you have the card in your possession.
[53:19.880 --> 53:28.040]  And that combined with surveillance cameras, you know, if you tie it all together in a matrix-like system, you can have a very thorough look at what somebody is doing.
[53:28.280 --> 53:28.560]  Exactly.
[53:28.720 --> 53:29.180]  All right, gentlemen.
[53:29.280 --> 53:30.080]  Keep up the good conversation.
[53:30.260 --> 53:30.500]  All right.
[53:30.520 --> 53:31.060]  Thanks for your call.
[53:31.780 --> 53:34.960]  And, of course, you know, it's all for our protection, so why would there be any problem with that?
[53:35.240 --> 53:36.740]  But, you know, what do you think...
[53:36.740 --> 53:37.120]  Go ahead.
[53:37.240 --> 53:37.380]  All right.
[53:37.380 --> 53:43.480]  What do you think about that girl that they, you know, they found the guy that basically abducted the girl through a security camera?
[53:44.280 --> 53:44.480]  Mm-hmm.
[53:44.580 --> 53:48.140]  You know, I mean, for the first time, I thought, yeah, it's a good thing the camera was there.
[53:48.240 --> 53:49.340]  They were able to identify the guy.
[53:49.340 --> 53:50.300]  They couldn't save the girl.
[53:50.460 --> 53:50.960]  That's a shame.
[53:51.080 --> 53:54.400]  Well, there's a difference between having a camera in the parking lot of a car wash...
[53:55.000 --> 54:04.920]  ...and having things that you write, things that you watch, things that you read, having those analyzed, which, you know, we're moving in that direction where people aren't going to question that as much.
[54:05.160 --> 54:11.060]  And also, you also have to ask yourself how many innocent people are being spied upon that you don't hear about?
[54:11.060 --> 54:14.940]  How many bits of privacy are being, you know, made public?
[54:15.780 --> 54:16.780]  There's all kinds of concerns.
[54:16.900 --> 54:23.840]  Yes, obviously, people are going to latch on to the thing that is obviously the most touching and tragic.
[54:24.520 --> 54:25.980]  But you've got to look at the bigger picture as well.
[54:26.020 --> 54:26.460]  Oh, sure, sure.
[54:26.680 --> 54:26.900]  All right.
[54:26.940 --> 54:38.000]  Well, I remember a story, I have a couple months ago, about someone who she noticed after a while, she'd been living in her apartment for a while, and she noticed that there was a security camera on a building nearby.
[54:38.100 --> 54:41.640]  Maybe it was a traffic camera, but it could point straight into her window.
[54:43.540 --> 54:43.900]  Easily.
[54:44.180 --> 54:44.420]  Easily.
[54:45.260 --> 54:46.180]  Good evening, you're on the air.
[54:47.740 --> 54:48.260]  Go ahead.
[54:49.880 --> 54:53.340]  Okay, I think we talked too much for that person, and they left us.
[54:53.420 --> 54:54.220]  Good evening, you're on the air.
[54:54.880 --> 54:55.240]  Hello?
[54:55.560 --> 54:55.960]  Yes, go ahead.
[54:56.520 --> 54:56.880]  Hi.
[54:56.880 --> 55:02.160]  I'd like to talk about how the payphone situation in Canada.
[55:02.500 --> 55:03.500]  Okay, go ahead.
[55:04.140 --> 55:04.740]  Yeah.
[55:04.960 --> 55:07.880]  I noticed, like, I'm in Ontario in Canada.
[55:07.880 --> 55:09.600]  It's right above where Michigan is.
[55:10.080 --> 55:11.900]  Yeah, we've heard of it.
[55:12.320 --> 55:12.640]  Yeah.
[55:13.840 --> 55:18.740]  And it seems to me like every payphone there is a Bell payphone.
[55:18.920 --> 55:19.240]  Mm-hmm.
[55:19.420 --> 55:31.780]  And what I notice a lot about these payphones is that when I go to make a call, it'll say, you know, please insert, like, $5 for, say, like, a call to California.
[55:32.320 --> 55:47.740]  And what I figured out was, and I'm pretty sure, that many of these payphones don't actually record by the minute, but they just record by some flat fee that the payphone charges.
[55:48.140 --> 55:48.460]  Mm-hmm.
[55:48.860 --> 55:59.440]  So if you're ever up in Ontario, take a look at the payphones, and the only payphones you'll see are pretty much Bell payphones.
[55:59.620 --> 56:00.220]  Bell Canada, yeah.
[56:00.520 --> 56:00.680]  Yeah.
[56:01.200 --> 56:02.240]  Okay, thanks for the info.
[56:02.660 --> 56:02.780]  Yep.
[56:03.060 --> 56:08.000]  And I remember our old Bell Canada phones, the old Nodent Telecom Brown phones, they always were fun to play with.
[56:08.060 --> 56:08.980]  Those were BC, right?
[56:09.720 --> 56:10.120]  BC?
[56:10.560 --> 56:11.240]  Bell Canada?
[56:11.360 --> 56:12.520]  No, it's a different phone company.
[56:12.580 --> 56:14.640]  BC Tell is a different phone company in British Columbia.
[56:14.840 --> 56:15.420]  We're out of time.
[56:15.420 --> 56:18.840]  So I want to thank everybody for calling in, for listening, for pledging.
[56:19.340 --> 56:21.860]  And please pay your pledge if you did pledge.
[56:22.820 --> 56:26.380]  Our email address, OTH at 2600.com.
[56:27.300 --> 56:29.580]  We'll be back again next week with another edition of Off the Hook.
[56:29.720 --> 56:31.080]  Stay tuned for the Personal Computer Show.
[56:31.340 --> 56:31.740]  Good night.
[57:04.320 --> 57:05.160]  We'll be right back.
[57:06.720 --> 57:11.600]  It's out of the hook It's out of the hook
[57:19.700 --> 57:29.480]  Talking so long She hasn't set my mind Why is talking such a long time?
[57:32.200 --> 57:40.200]  Maybe she's leaving Maybe she'll live Fawns disconnected
[58:03.950 --> 58:13.870]  Don't want to stay afraid Or what I find Tired of letting her upset I'm happy all the time...
[58:16.130 --> 58:20.250]  Back in the best we started reading my books...
[58:22.310 --> 58:25.550]  Take my phone out of a hook...
[58:25.550 --> 58:27.630]  It's Out the Hook...
[58:27.630 --> 58:31.070]  It's Out the Hook...
[58:31.070 --> 58:33.030]  It's Out the Hook...