[00:00.000 --> 00:02.880]  They wanted that portion of the electorate back.
[00:03.060 --> 00:08.700]  And they... part of their strategy for winning it was putting a woman, their own woman, up against her.
[00:09.040 --> 00:11.020]  Today, what is Karen Hughes doing?
[00:11.200 --> 00:25.960]  Well, supposedly out of office, she's the person they put forward just in the last few weeks to be their public face to defend their campaign ads, the Bush-Cheney re-election campaign ads, when they came under attack from the families of bereaved...
[00:25.960 --> 00:27.020]  And we're going to have to fade this down.
[00:27.020 --> 00:29.360]  Sorry, once again, the news has run late.
[00:29.620 --> 00:31.200]  You can catch a repeat at 11 o'clock.
[00:31.380 --> 00:33.560]  It's two minutes late for Off the Hook, once again.
[00:38.770 --> 00:43.070]  The telephone keeps ringing, so I ripped it off the wall.
[00:44.150 --> 00:48.550]  I cut myself while shaving, now I can't make a cough.
[00:49.390 --> 00:53.890]  We couldn't get much worse, but if they could, they would.
[00:53.890 --> 00:56.830]  From Digglypuff, but the best expect the worst.
[00:57.310 --> 00:59.330]  I hope that's understood.
[00:59.530 --> 01:00.350]  From Digglypuff!
[01:36.140 --> 01:40.420]  Close up on guns and bring your friends.
[01:40.560 --> 01:44.020]  It's fun to us, and to pretend.
[01:44.520 --> 01:48.260]  Chisar the barland salvagears.
[01:48.640 --> 01:50.160]  Oh no, I know.
[01:50.620 --> 01:52.180]  As her to work.
[01:52.740 --> 01:54.680]  Hello, hello, hello.
[01:55.200 --> 01:56.400]  How are the...
[01:56.400 --> 01:58.620]  Hello, hello, hello.
[01:59.120 --> 02:00.120]  How are the...
[02:00.120 --> 02:02.480]  Hello, hello, hello.
[02:02.980 --> 02:04.060]  How are the...
[02:04.060 --> 02:04.440]  Hello.
[02:04.700 --> 02:07.220]  Okay, I can't take any more.
[02:08.740 --> 02:10.580]  It's a great concept, Mike.
[02:10.680 --> 02:11.240]  It really is.
[02:11.600 --> 02:13.500]  It can drive you crazy after a while, can't it?
[02:14.020 --> 02:15.600]  Who are these guys again?
[02:15.960 --> 02:16.780]  Some Russian guy.
[02:17.020 --> 02:18.800]  This thing, whatever it is making music.
[02:20.120 --> 02:21.720]  It's a very old computer.
[02:22.020 --> 02:22.200]  Yeah.
[02:23.700 --> 02:24.480]  It's a very old song.
[02:24.760 --> 02:25.920]  With your school kids, wasn't it?
[02:26.000 --> 02:27.560]  Yeah, when I brought it to school, the kids loved it.
[02:27.640 --> 02:30.040]  They didn't know what a 386 was, but they liked the sound.
[02:30.160 --> 02:30.340]  Really?
[02:30.520 --> 02:30.660]  Yeah.
[02:31.660 --> 02:33.480]  Well, my 386 never sounded like this.
[02:34.060 --> 02:34.760]  Mine either.
[02:35.980 --> 02:37.280]  Okay, this is off the hook.
[02:37.440 --> 02:38.520]  Sorry for the late start.
[02:39.100 --> 02:42.680]  All right, keep it down, keep it down.
[02:43.480 --> 02:44.800]  We've got a lot to cover.
[02:44.880 --> 02:46.300]  In fact, we haven't even gotten Bernie S.
[02:46.320 --> 02:46.880]  yet on the phone.
[02:47.060 --> 02:48.720]  Let me try once again to get him.
[02:49.000 --> 02:54.920]  We did play this for a listener in Denmark that sent the last email that I was able to see tonight.
[02:55.760 --> 02:57.500]  And they were impressed or outraged?
[02:57.680 --> 02:57.680]  Begging.
[02:57.700 --> 02:59.620]  No, impressed and begging for more.
[02:59.800 --> 03:00.040]  Really?
[03:00.280 --> 03:02.640]  Well, I guess they have what they wish for.
[03:02.640 --> 03:04.360]  We need to put the URL out there.
[03:04.740 --> 03:06.720]  Do we have the URL to figure it out?
[03:07.160 --> 03:08.160]  It's on the screen.
[03:08.720 --> 03:10.060]  That only you can see.
[03:11.760 --> 03:11.960]  Hmm.
[03:12.360 --> 03:13.540]  Well, Bernie S.'s phone is ringing.
[03:13.800 --> 03:15.920]  I think it's easylife.org.
[03:17.420 --> 03:17.900]  Hello?
[03:18.180 --> 03:18.860]  Bernie, are you there?
[03:19.180 --> 03:19.780]  I'm here.
[03:19.920 --> 03:22.200]  Okay, we're playing computer music here.
[03:24.000 --> 03:25.680]  But we're just right done with that.
[03:26.860 --> 03:28.160]  How about some real music?
[03:28.440 --> 03:28.800]  You know?
[03:29.500 --> 03:31.240]  Oh, that's made by humans.
[03:35.820 --> 03:37.020]  Human beings made this.
[03:40.140 --> 03:42.140]  Do you think computers are ever going to sound like this?
[03:43.400 --> 03:43.820]  Absolutely.
[03:44.060 --> 03:44.660]  Do you think they already do?
[03:44.880 --> 03:45.280]  Yeah.
[03:46.540 --> 03:47.980]  Sounds like a computer now.
[04:04.960 --> 04:06.340]  Yeah, well, I don't know.
[04:06.500 --> 04:11.920]  I don't think we'll ever quite get the human touch with these kind of things.
[04:11.960 --> 04:13.360]  But we'll keep trying.
[04:14.040 --> 04:18.020]  We have all kinds of news stories to forward along to people.
[04:21.060 --> 04:21.960]  What happened to Bernie?
[04:22.040 --> 04:23.120]  I guess he didn't like the human music.
[04:25.540 --> 04:26.460]  Well, that's just sad.
[04:27.760 --> 04:29.420]  That's a noise that can only be made by computer, too.
[04:29.520 --> 04:31.980]  Okay, I can only read out Bernie so many times in one night.
[04:32.060 --> 04:33.460]  I'm going to wait a few minutes, then we'll try it again.
[04:33.540 --> 04:36.200]  Maybe he stepped under a tree and lost the signal.
[04:36.880 --> 04:38.240]  He's using a Sprint phone, after all.
[04:39.220 --> 04:43.480]  There are 5 million people on the terrorist list, for those of you who are wondering about this.
[04:43.660 --> 04:46.100]  We've been talking about it over the past few weeks.
[04:46.820 --> 04:47.500]  The U.S.
[04:47.760 --> 04:52.200]  security agents have a master list of 5 million people worldwide.
[04:52.200 --> 04:53.500]  This is from the Toronto Sun.
[04:54.200 --> 04:58.040]  Thought to be potential terrorists or criminals, the U.S.
[04:58.160 --> 05:04.680]  Lookout Index contains some 5 million names of known terrorists and other persons representing a potential problem.
[05:06.120 --> 05:08.780]  Most people I know represent a potential problem.
[05:09.640 --> 05:14.740]  This is according to Brian Davis, who's a senior Canadian immigration official in Paris.
[05:15.860 --> 05:20.240]  And he said this in a confidential document, which somehow was obtained by the Toronto Sun.
[05:21.040 --> 05:26.540]  Names on the list are compared against those applying for visas or on flights traveling to the U.S.
[05:27.360 --> 05:31.560]  Anyone whose name is on the list is questioned or banned from entering the U.S.
[05:31.580 --> 05:35.660]  as passengers were on two British Airways flights to Los Angeles two weeks ago.
[05:36.940 --> 05:39.340]  Actually, this is more like six weeks ago now.
[05:40.040 --> 05:42.040]  The master list was revealed by U.S.
[05:42.360 --> 05:46.420]  Embassy officials to a Canadian Standing Immigration Committee in April 2002.
[05:47.240 --> 05:49.840]  And its existence was revealed in Davis' documents.
[05:50.080 --> 05:55.160]  A document obtained by Montreal lawyer Richard Curlin through an access to information request.
[05:55.280 --> 05:56.260]  Apparently that's what they have in Canada.
[05:56.400 --> 05:57.620]  Access to information.
[05:58.100 --> 06:00.020]  It's supposed to... or freedom of information.
[06:00.860 --> 06:02.000]  I don't know which is better.
[06:03.120 --> 06:07.820]  Davis said Canadian visa officials abroad do not keep an extensive list like the U.S.
[06:07.900 --> 06:10.740]  because terrorists can use bogus documents and change their identities.
[06:12.240 --> 06:14.020]  I wonder why that doesn't apply to us.
[06:14.120 --> 06:15.240]  Those nutty Canadians.
[06:15.500 --> 06:16.680]  They figure that out.
[06:16.800 --> 06:21.000]  They figure it out that, yeah, you know, they can lie about their names and change their identities.
[06:21.160 --> 06:22.780]  So having these lists is kind of pointless.
[06:23.860 --> 06:29.700]  They say, this is their crazy approach to it, we examine each application according to profiles.
[06:30.120 --> 06:33.120]  We apply experience and knowledge gained from a variety of sources.
[06:33.480 --> 06:38.780]  Canada's approach to identifying persons who may pose a danger was as sound as possible.
[06:38.980 --> 06:41.700]  I'm not sure why it's referred to in the past tense like that.
[06:42.440 --> 06:50.320]  But, yeah, so these lists are definitely causing a stir throughout the world as more and more of us wind up on them.
[06:51.880 --> 06:52.780]  Electronic voting.
[06:52.960 --> 06:56.020]  We just heard a story on Free Speech Radio News about this.
[06:56.780 --> 07:05.880]  And this is something that certainly is causing more and more of a stir as we have elections that use electronic voting.
[07:06.300 --> 07:07.480]  You see the problems.
[07:08.480 --> 07:12.860]  There's a great article in last week's Washington Post about this.
[07:12.860 --> 07:16.220]  I actually went to a lot of trouble and tracked down a copy.
[07:16.400 --> 07:20.360]  And it's basically concerning the primary last week.
[07:20.560 --> 07:23.320]  Maryland election officials praised the statewide debut.
[07:23.480 --> 07:24.420]  This is how the story starts.
[07:24.640 --> 07:37.420]  Maryland election officials praised the statewide debut of a new touchscreen voting system in yesterday's primary despite computer glitches that crashed isolated machines and left some frustrated voters demanding the return of paper ballots.
[07:38.580 --> 07:40.000]  Now, that got praise.
[07:40.140 --> 07:42.180]  That kind of thing got praise for the new system.
[07:42.180 --> 07:44.500]  Now, can you imagine what it would have taken to get criticism?
[07:45.240 --> 07:45.840]  You know?
[07:46.800 --> 07:49.860]  Frustrated voters demanding the return of paper ballots and...
[07:49.860 --> 07:52.700]  I'm guessing maybe some open flames would have gotten the criticism.
[07:52.920 --> 07:53.180]  Maybe.
[07:53.520 --> 07:53.740]  Maybe.
[07:53.980 --> 07:54.840]  That'd be kind of neat.
[07:55.500 --> 07:58.220]  Well, you don't have to wait too long, I'm sure.
[07:58.540 --> 07:59.720]  That'll be happening pretty soon.
[08:00.200 --> 08:06.800]  Problems with a small number of the Diebold voting machines were reported in several counties, including Charles, Montgomery, and St. Mary's.
[08:06.940 --> 08:10.820]  But officials said the vast majority of machines worked as advertised.
[08:10.820 --> 08:12.240]  What's vast majority?
[08:12.480 --> 08:13.040]  Seven out of ten?
[08:13.380 --> 08:14.720]  Well, here's the problem.
[08:14.960 --> 08:23.920]  If the vast majority of machines happen to be in rural areas, you're disenfranchising the vast majority of voters who may use just a few machines.
[08:24.360 --> 08:25.400]  That's true, too.
[08:25.540 --> 08:35.540]  And also, they needed the help of, this is according to them, a small army of computer experts who were dispatched as troubleshooters across Maryland by State Elections Administrator Linda Lamone.
[08:36.640 --> 08:40.760]  Well, you know, with a small army of computer experts, I imagine you can probably fix a lot of problems.
[08:40.860 --> 08:47.320]  But if they're not nearby, you know, you're kind of out of luck if something goes wrong with your particular machine.
[08:47.480 --> 08:54.100]  And if you're in one of those areas that doesn't have access to a lot of technology in the first place, you may really be up the creek.
[08:54.940 --> 09:03.940]  So, many voters say they found the new machines, which were used during the last two years in four pilot counties, easier to use than the old-style paper ballots.
[09:05.180 --> 09:07.520]  Just like the ATM, said Diane Hoskins.
[09:08.500 --> 09:09.500]  Well, I don't know.
[09:09.720 --> 09:11.040]  Do you want voting to be just like the ATM?
[09:12.520 --> 09:13.680]  Maybe we can get cash?
[09:15.200 --> 09:17.880]  Any idiot could do it, if you want to know the truth, another person said.
[09:19.260 --> 09:25.540]  Any idiot can do a lot of things, but it's the smart people that have the problems, and also, idiots can break things as well, as well as smart people can break things.
[09:26.760 --> 09:30.760]  Voters who encountered malfunctioning machines, however, took issue with the positive reports.
[09:30.940 --> 09:37.120]  Jeffrey Liss, a lawyer, said the machine he used at Chevy Chase Elementary School, it's a real town, people, right?
[09:37.260 --> 09:38.740]  So, everybody just stop laughing right now.
[09:38.900 --> 09:40.820]  It was around longer than the comedian was.
[09:41.360 --> 09:42.440]  I don't know why, though.
[09:43.040 --> 09:50.660]  The machine he used at Chevy Chase Elementary School had to be shut down after he complained that it did not call up the candidates for the Democratic Senate primary.
[09:51.620 --> 09:53.260]  Boy, talk about a perfectionist.
[09:54.000 --> 09:57.940]  Liss said that election officials refused to let him recast his vote on another machine.
[09:57.940 --> 10:01.320]  A provisional ballot he filled out may or may not be counted.
[10:02.240 --> 10:07.940]  We need to have a system where you can touch the ballot, you can hold it in your hand, and you can confirm what you're doing, Liss said.
[10:07.940 --> 10:10.320]  We all know that computers have glitches.
[10:10.400 --> 10:13.720]  We suffer it every day at home and at work.
[10:16.320 --> 10:18.860]  So, yeah, problems in Washington.
[10:19.980 --> 10:20.500]  Maryland.
[10:21.280 --> 10:23.280]  Well, Washington area, Maryland, yes.
[10:23.740 --> 10:24.260]  Technically.
[10:24.900 --> 10:26.620]  Of course, there's also fears of hacking.
[10:27.480 --> 10:29.260]  That's always what they hit you with.
[10:29.680 --> 10:37.280]  Maryland switched to computerized voting to comply with federal law requiring a system that could be used by sight-impaired voters and offer multilingual options.
[10:37.480 --> 10:45.340]  The move was controversial, particularly after a test of the system by state consultants revealed security flaws and other vulnerabilities that hackers could exploit.
[10:47.040 --> 10:49.840]  Some detractors simply object to the lack of a paper ballot.
[10:51.260 --> 10:59.580]  Members of a citizen group founded in September demanded printed records of each vote, and they helped organize a protest last week as well.
[11:01.120 --> 11:04.940]  This is going to just keep turning into a bigger and bigger story as these are used.
[11:05.020 --> 11:06.920]  I don't think they're used anywhere in New York, though, are they?
[11:07.380 --> 11:07.940]  Anywhere in the area?
[11:08.060 --> 11:12.280]  No, we have the old machines that malfunction in more traditional manners.
[11:12.600 --> 11:15.160]  Yeah, but when they do malfunction, you know, I don't know.
[11:15.380 --> 11:16.660]  I think they're easier to fix.
[11:17.580 --> 11:22.480]  If you know how to repair old mechanical voting machines, which is not an especially common scale.
[11:22.480 --> 11:25.080]  In any event, though, there is a paper trail of some sort.
[11:25.080 --> 11:25.420]  No.
[11:25.580 --> 11:26.480]  Well, having...
[11:26.480 --> 11:26.760]  No.
[11:27.000 --> 11:28.040]  They're mechanical machines.
[11:28.060 --> 11:29.820]  They break, and people's votes get lost.
[11:29.960 --> 11:30.280]  No, wait.
[11:30.460 --> 11:33.780]  Are there not pieces of paper with whatever it is that they...
[11:33.780 --> 11:34.440]  Here's what happens.
[11:34.760 --> 11:35.160]  ...supposedly on them?
[11:35.440 --> 11:37.060]  I mean, do they not exist?
[11:37.580 --> 11:38.020]  They're...
[11:38.020 --> 11:43.120]  In New York City, there's a piece of paper recording that you voted, but not who you voted for.
[11:43.220 --> 11:47.940]  And if the machine breaks in certain manners, your vote can be lost.
[11:47.940 --> 11:48.920]  It's happened before.
[11:49.120 --> 11:52.020]  So then it's no worse having the computerized system that has no paper trail.
[11:52.840 --> 11:55.320]  Well, it's worse than...
[11:55.320 --> 11:56.740]  Backed yourself into a corner on that one, didn't you?
[11:56.780 --> 11:57.160]  Well, wait.
[11:57.240 --> 12:00.540]  You could lose the vote or you could increase it by 10, right?
[12:00.660 --> 12:01.720]  Depending on how the wheel spins.
[12:01.820 --> 12:05.900]  The computers have many more bizarre ways of malfunctioning than machines.
[12:05.960 --> 12:08.360]  Machines either basically they work or they don't work.
[12:08.540 --> 12:10.660]  Maybe they lose a couple votes or something.
[12:11.020 --> 12:19.440]  But the computers, which like say, you know, more votes were cast than people live in the area and things like that, the machines are simply not that clever.
[12:20.120 --> 12:20.520]  Jim?
[12:21.020 --> 12:22.360]  Well, I've voted for...
[12:22.360 --> 12:23.800]  Oh, I better not show my age.
[12:23.980 --> 12:24.940]  For quite some time in New York.
[12:25.700 --> 12:29.480]  And essentially, New York state voting machines are much like odometers.
[12:30.780 --> 12:31.040]  Hello?
[12:31.440 --> 12:32.160]  Oh, Bernie, you're back.
[12:32.740 --> 12:33.840]  I don't know what happened.
[12:34.120 --> 12:34.860]  You used Sprint.
[12:34.940 --> 12:35.420]  That's what happened.
[12:35.520 --> 12:37.600]  But Jim's giving a sermon, so go ahead.
[12:37.840 --> 12:38.340]  Oh, thanks.
[12:39.620 --> 12:45.800]  You pull the lever and essentially counters trip up by one, depending on what you're voting for.
[12:45.800 --> 12:49.320]  So if the machine breaks, it can break in many ways.
[12:49.420 --> 12:56.540]  It's possible that the lever doesn't pull, that the little levers that are next to each candidate's names break off or whatever.
[12:56.720 --> 13:01.100]  Or it's possible that the gears further in the machine break and don't get counted.
[13:01.560 --> 13:06.860]  Yes, theoretically, it's possible that everybody's vote from that point previous is not counted.
[13:06.860 --> 13:23.660]  But when the machine breaks, what they do is they give everyone waiting in line in that election district, that little area that the one machine tallies for, However, they give them paper ballots, known as affidavit ballots, which are counted only if the person is not able to vote on the machine.
[13:23.920 --> 13:26.660]  They're put in envelopes and you sign the outside of the envelope.
[13:27.720 --> 13:28.680]  That's the way it happens.
[13:28.820 --> 13:37.760]  So if you haven't yet gotten to vote, you don't necessarily lose your vote, assuming that the election officials are up on what they should be doing in that area.
[13:37.860 --> 13:39.420]  And I haven't had any problems with that.
[13:39.540 --> 13:41.380]  I've gotten affidavit ballots in the past.
[13:43.060 --> 13:46.980]  Well, like I said, it's going to be something to keep an eye on in the future.
[13:47.120 --> 13:48.620]  Any election problems down where you are, Bernie?
[13:50.060 --> 13:54.160]  I think I spoke about our last primary down here I voted in.
[13:54.220 --> 13:58.360]  They had these new machines that were a great big touch panel.
[13:58.480 --> 13:59.260]  It wasn't a screen.
[13:59.260 --> 14:06.120]  It was a bunch of LEDs behind a translucent panel that had the candidates' names on them.
[14:06.200 --> 14:07.640]  But the print was really fine.
[14:07.640 --> 14:11.700]  My eyesight's not bad, and I'm nearsighted, so I can see things close up pretty well.
[14:11.860 --> 14:14.240]  And I had a lot of trouble reading all that stuff.
[14:14.240 --> 14:15.160]  It was very confusing.
[14:15.380 --> 14:17.960]  I preferred the old mechanical lever machines.
[14:18.620 --> 14:22.640]  And, you know, if that thing breaks, like Jim said, people can use paper ballots.
[14:22.820 --> 14:27.580]  And I think paper ballots are still by far the most reliable, and they leave a paper trail.
[14:27.680 --> 14:42.580]  One thing I don't think anyone has mentioned on this show or on the mass media either, if you have these electronic systems that print a receipt, besides that being a way to sell your vote, I see that as being something that people could intimidate you.
[14:42.740 --> 14:51.340]  Suppose your spouse says, you know, you come home, I want to see that you voted for so-and-so or else.
[14:51.720 --> 15:01.200]  Or, you know, you could have bullies saying, you know, I'll beat you up if you don't bring me back a receipt showing you voted for so-and-so.
[15:01.300 --> 15:08.720]  I think everyone's aware of that, and that's probably why, you know, the computers aren't spitting out paper receipts showing that you voted for a particular person.
[15:09.140 --> 15:18.760]  Well, the media, the mass media I've heard, and CNN and other, and ABC and so forth, Disney News, that a lot of areas are working on that to be the paper trail, to that be the printed receipt.
[15:19.000 --> 15:21.320]  You know, one, you don't know if it's going to print accurately.
[15:21.660 --> 15:30.000]  And two, if it does print accurately, it can be abused, and, you know, people can extort you or force you to fork over a receipt saying you voted for so-and-so.
[15:30.280 --> 15:33.780]  I think handwritten paper ballots are the way to go, believe it or not.
[15:34.020 --> 15:37.180]  But that's only if you're allowed to take the receipt with you.
[15:37.180 --> 15:43.240]  If you leave it there as the paper trail or the secondary counting system, that should be fine.
[15:43.900 --> 15:50.040]  If you know for a fact that it recorded in the computer the same as it printed on the piece of paper, and you don't know that.
[15:50.320 --> 15:54.440]  How do we know that when we press those levers that it's recording the same way that we pressed the levers?
[15:54.460 --> 15:55.120]  We don't know that either.
[15:55.120 --> 16:00.280]  I think there's less mystery with mechanical gears and things like that.
[16:00.400 --> 16:01.880]  That's what they want you to think.
[16:02.220 --> 16:07.080]  Millions of things, as Mike said, that can go wrong in a computerized system.
[16:07.280 --> 16:11.660]  So you mean a hacker could get in and change something and couldn't do that with a mechanical system?
[16:11.920 --> 16:13.840]  Well, I'm sure they can be done that way, but I...
[16:13.840 --> 16:14.480]  It's not remotely.
[16:15.700 --> 16:16.500]  It's easier...
[16:16.500 --> 16:22.960]  I think it's easier to cover your tracks with an electronic system if you're up to no good than with a mechanical system.
[16:22.960 --> 16:42.480]  The cryptographer, David Chaum, C-H-A-U-M is his last name, has come up with a system where you get a receipt which you can then check to make sure your vote was counted, but the receipt cannot be simply read to know who you voted for.
[16:42.680 --> 16:47.440]  It's a very clever system, and it solves a lot of problems, which of course means it will never be used.
[16:48.460 --> 16:50.720]  Is it being taken seriously, these proposals?
[16:50.980 --> 16:51.460]  By me.
[16:51.920 --> 16:53.020]  Well, what did you hear about them?
[16:53.480 --> 16:55.620]  You know, I read about it...
[16:55.620 --> 16:57.260]  I don't even remember where.
[16:58.180 --> 17:00.960]  So you can look up his name and...
[17:00.960 --> 17:02.180]  C-H-A-U-M.
[17:02.340 --> 17:03.200]  That's his last name.
[17:03.200 --> 17:03.500]  Okay.
[17:03.720 --> 17:04.000]  All right.
[17:04.360 --> 17:05.480]  Maybe he has the answer.
[17:05.600 --> 17:10.640]  But none of these systems provide any advantage over paper ballots.
[17:12.120 --> 17:15.780]  Well, I mean, there's no paper, you save the trees, and...
[17:15.780 --> 17:20.400]  We won't even talk about the amount of natural resources that are required to make a computer.
[17:20.680 --> 17:21.720]  Well, yeah, that's certainly true.
[17:23.440 --> 17:26.860]  And, I don't know, you're right, there's no real advantage to this.
[17:26.960 --> 17:42.180]  I mean, in Canada they had an election shortly after the 2000 farce that we had down here, and it was all done by counting, counting pieces of paper, and they had the answers, the total answers, within two hours after the last ballot was cast.
[17:42.380 --> 17:44.020]  So, yeah, computers don't make it any faster.
[17:44.380 --> 17:45.160]  It's really true.
[17:45.360 --> 17:46.380]  They make it cooler, maybe.
[17:46.740 --> 17:49.960]  You know, they make it more graphically nice, but not faster.
[17:51.200 --> 17:57.200]  Okay, we have other news stories, of course, to deal with, and this is a breaking one that we just got fairly recently.
[17:57.400 --> 18:00.460]  It turns out the Piggly Wiggly grocery chain has announced...
[18:00.460 --> 18:02.280]  Why is every story making people laugh?
[18:02.800 --> 18:03.480]  The Piggly...
[18:03.480 --> 18:03.880]  This is true.
[18:03.980 --> 18:04.940]  This is very serious.
[18:05.220 --> 18:05.940]  Very serious.
[18:05.940 --> 18:13.920]  The Piggly Wiggly grocery chain has announced it will begin offering a high-tech payment feature, allowing customers in several stores to pay using their fingerprints.
[18:14.680 --> 18:15.380]  Uh-oh.
[18:15.580 --> 18:16.140]  Yeah, here we are.
[18:16.600 --> 18:17.460]  We've arrived.
[18:18.160 --> 18:26.360]  With a touch of the finger to a light-sensitive pad, patrons will be able to pay for their groceries, provided they have an account in the store system that can be debited.
[18:26.480 --> 18:29.820]  That's according to the Columbia, South Carolina company.
[18:30.420 --> 18:39.100]  The paper says stores in Columbia, actually, the Columbia State, I'm sorry, the Columbia State is the name of the newspaper that's reporting this.
[18:39.380 --> 18:43.400]  The paper says stores in Columbia and Charleston are set to install the technology.
[18:44.360 --> 18:44.820]  It's a...
[18:44.820 --> 18:48.560]  Pay-by-touch is the name of the company that is actually doing this.
[18:48.780 --> 18:51.700]  The system takes 10 seconds to okay a payment by fingerprint.
[18:53.100 --> 18:56.680]  I mean, you know, you don't need anything else, just your finger.
[18:56.780 --> 18:58.200]  Do we have a choice?
[18:58.300 --> 18:58.660]  What finger?
[18:58.880 --> 19:00.100]  I don't know about that.
[19:00.120 --> 19:01.380]  I was going to say that, too.
[19:01.860 --> 19:05.580]  That might be a little way of protesting against this, but not enough.
[19:05.740 --> 19:06.260]  Not enough.
[19:06.520 --> 19:10.080]  Many privacy activists oppose fingerprint payment technology.
[19:10.920 --> 19:15.720]  Catherine Albrecht is founder and director of Consumers Against Supermarket Privacy Invasion and Numbering.
[19:16.540 --> 19:16.980]  Wow.
[19:17.720 --> 19:21.660]  So now when you're leaving, they'll say paper or plastic or finger.
[19:22.580 --> 19:23.020]  Yeah.
[19:23.420 --> 19:23.660]  Yeah.
[19:24.320 --> 19:27.720]  We're extremely opposed to it, she said.
[19:27.760 --> 19:32.260]  Of all forms of security, fingerprints are perhaps the least secure.
[19:32.680 --> 19:39.460]  She explained research that has been done to show how a mold of a fingerprint can be made that then can easily be used to make a gelatin print.
[19:39.700 --> 19:43.300]  The fake print can be fit over someone's finger to be used fraudulently in a scanner.
[19:43.660 --> 19:48.480]  Why would you pick something for security purposes that you leave everywhere if she asked referring to fingerprints?
[19:48.960 --> 19:49.740]  Well, that's good.
[19:50.080 --> 19:50.840]  It's an interesting point.
[19:50.860 --> 19:51.560]  I'm not sure.
[19:51.680 --> 19:59.420]  You know, is it that easy to replicate somebody else's fingerprints and, say, frame them for a crime or get into a doorway with their finger?
[19:59.600 --> 20:03.380]  You don't necessarily have to be doing it to frame someone for a crime.
[20:03.380 --> 20:09.000]  That famous Weather Underground bomb explosion in the late 60s, early 70s in the village here in New York.
[20:09.660 --> 20:12.960]  They identified one of the persons killed.
[20:13.340 --> 20:16.540]  All that was left was essentially the outside of the finger.
[20:16.540 --> 20:20.080]  They were able to take a fingerprint from it by putting...
[20:20.080 --> 20:27.980]  The fingerprint technician put his finger in the remains of the finger and rolled it around the ink pad the way that you're supposed to.
[20:29.440 --> 20:44.600]  So, you know, if you had somebody rich, if this became an acceptable payment method, you had somebody rich who you wanted to get all their money from, you just off them, you take care of their one finger that they use for ID purposes.
[20:44.940 --> 20:49.260]  And, gee, you can go on a spending spree up to the ATM, to the Piggly Wiggly.
[20:50.200 --> 20:51.940]  Well, there's no Piggly Wigglers around here.
[20:52.720 --> 20:53.200]  Nebraska.
[20:53.760 --> 20:54.560]  Is there one in Nebraska?
[20:54.740 --> 20:55.740]  Well, Nebraska's not around here.
[20:55.980 --> 20:59.600]  I'm from Nebraska, and they have Piggly Wigglies in Nebraska.
[20:59.820 --> 21:00.040]  Really?
[21:00.220 --> 21:00.760]  And Texas.
[21:01.020 --> 21:02.240]  I went to college down there.
[21:02.620 --> 21:08.860]  Well, it's a sad day when Piggly Wigglies start taking your fingerprints, but I guess those days were upon us.
[21:09.340 --> 21:17.580]  I foresee some ADA, Americans with Disabilities Act, lawsuits coming as a result of this new payment system.
[21:17.720 --> 21:25.220]  You know, what if a paraplegic or a quadriplegic who has no fingers or toes wishes to go to the Piggly Wiggly?
[21:26.500 --> 21:28.080]  That could be a form of discrimination.
[21:28.400 --> 21:30.680]  I think you're still allowed to pay with cash.
[21:30.760 --> 21:31.880]  Yeah, I think it's just an option.
[21:32.620 --> 21:33.300]  I don't know.
[21:33.380 --> 21:35.060]  It's not as convenient, and it's discriminatory.
[21:36.200 --> 21:37.120]  Well, I don't know.
[21:38.020 --> 21:39.840]  Well, that's one aspect of it.
[21:40.320 --> 21:50.800]  Something else that's kind of disturbing to a lot of people, the European Parliament last night passed an anti-piracy law covering everything from handbags to music downloads, according to the BBC.
[21:51.160 --> 21:51.460]  How about eyepatches?
[21:51.880 --> 21:53.020]  Nothing but eyepatches.
[21:53.320 --> 21:58.700]  Under the law, counterfeiters could face civil penalties, but proposals for criminal sanctions were dropped.
[21:59.300 --> 22:10.500]  Before the vote, critics said the law was flawed as it applied the same penalties to both professional counterfeiters and consumers, but a late amendment limited them to organized counterfeiters and not people downloading music at home.
[22:10.660 --> 22:15.240]  The final vote on the EU Intellectual Property Rights Enforcement Directive...
[22:15.240 --> 22:16.820]  Does that spell anything clever?
[22:17.360 --> 22:18.560]  I don't think it does.
[22:18.940 --> 22:21.460]  ...took place in the European Parliament last night.
[22:21.460 --> 22:25.120]  The directive was passed 330 to 151.
[22:25.500 --> 22:26.060]  How'd you...
[22:26.060 --> 22:26.680]  What, you had it memorized?
[22:27.320 --> 22:27.880]  Wow.
[22:28.200 --> 22:28.800]  I'm impressed.
[22:29.280 --> 22:36.020]  The law was drawn up to target professional pirates, criminals, and counterfeiters who make copies of goods such as football shirts or CDs.
[22:37.840 --> 22:39.740]  The directive allows companies...
[22:39.740 --> 22:40.160]  Listen to this.
[22:40.280 --> 22:48.920]  ...companies to raid homes, seize property, and ask courts to freeze bank accounts to protect trademarks or intellectual property they believe are being abused or stolen.
[22:49.260 --> 22:51.260]  Imagine having companies raiding your house.
[22:52.460 --> 22:52.900]  Unbelievable.
[22:53.340 --> 22:56.100]  Can I form a company and start raiding people's houses?
[22:56.200 --> 22:56.520]  I would.
[22:56.600 --> 22:57.580]  I would certainly do that.
[22:57.860 --> 23:01.620]  You know, start raiding some executives' homes.
[23:01.880 --> 23:05.280]  See if they have any pirated copies of 2600, maybe.
[23:05.540 --> 23:06.040]  There you go.
[23:06.100 --> 23:06.260]  Yeah.
[23:06.460 --> 23:07.900]  I hear they do.
[23:08.060 --> 23:09.200]  Yeah, I hear they do, too.
[23:09.300 --> 23:10.320]  They make copies all the time.
[23:11.340 --> 23:18.880]  The recording industry of America has used the Digital Millennium Copyright Act to bring lawsuits against file swappers in the U.S.
[23:19.940 --> 23:25.600]  And according to the European Digital Rights Lobby Group, they fear the same thing could now happen in European countries.
[23:26.220 --> 23:37.440]  The European law was shepherded through the European Parliament by Jeanne-Lee Fortou, wife of Jeanne-Ren Fortou, who, guess what, is boss of media giant Vivendi Universal.
[23:38.000 --> 23:38.660]  See how it works?
[23:38.960 --> 23:39.400]  Mm-hmm.
[23:40.760 --> 23:41.240]  Yeah.
[23:43.280 --> 23:44.900]  Anyway, that's a story.
[23:44.980 --> 23:47.780]  Now, speaking of counterfeiters, you hear about this person with the $1 million bill?
[23:48.520 --> 23:50.220]  Yeah, in Georgia.
[23:50.580 --> 23:51.720]  Real genius here.
[23:51.900 --> 24:02.620]  A Georgia woman who tried to use a fake $1 million bill to buy $1,675 worth of merchandise at Walmart was arrested, and police later found two more of the bills in her purse.
[24:03.000 --> 24:05.960]  Now, I don't think I have to tell most of the listeners that the U.S.
[24:06.200 --> 24:08.120]  Treasury doesn't make $1 million bills.
[24:09.060 --> 24:10.040]  We know this, right?
[24:10.040 --> 24:11.240]  Right, because they're made in Canada.
[24:11.980 --> 24:12.520]  Yeah, that's right.
[24:13.560 --> 24:15.060]  They used to make $500 bills.
[24:15.200 --> 24:15.880]  They don't make those anymore.
[24:16.140 --> 24:16.600]  And thousands.
[24:16.760 --> 24:17.100]  And thousands.
[24:17.200 --> 24:17.880]  They don't make those either.
[24:18.040 --> 24:20.360]  I thought $10,000 was also a denomination that was...
[24:20.360 --> 24:20.940]  Yes, it was.
[24:22.320 --> 24:23.120]  Salmon P. Chase.
[24:23.700 --> 24:24.700]  That's his picture was on it?
[24:24.800 --> 24:24.980]  Yes.
[24:26.360 --> 24:27.680]  Treasury Secretary under Abe Lincoln.
[24:28.820 --> 24:28.940]  Wow.
[24:29.140 --> 24:32.260]  Okay, well, I guess if you have one of those, it's either worth nothing or worth a whole lot.
[24:33.280 --> 24:34.040]  What, do you have one?
[24:34.200 --> 24:34.660]  No, no, no.
[24:34.760 --> 24:37.820]  There's an interesting story about that and counterfeit in passing it.
[24:37.940 --> 24:38.800]  But if you want...
[24:38.800 --> 24:42.960]  Well, let me just finish with this idiot here who tried to pay something with a million dollars.
[24:43.060 --> 24:52.040]  First of all, you know, maybe you don't know there's not a million dollar bill, but you have to realize that if you start passing around million dollar bills, people are going to look at you with a little bit of suspicion.
[24:52.480 --> 24:55.860]  This person went back to...
[24:55.860 --> 24:57.160]  What, did they go back to their car?
[24:57.340 --> 25:05.560]  They tried to use two gift cards that were worth $2.32 to buy $1,675 worth of merchandise.
[25:05.940 --> 25:06.980]  Then that didn't work out.
[25:06.980 --> 25:10.060]  She, again, asked to cash the $1 million bill.
[25:10.700 --> 25:13.160]  And it wasn't until then that the store called the cops.
[25:13.900 --> 25:15.800]  She was jailed on forgery charges.
[25:16.500 --> 25:18.820]  Um, and, uh, that's the story there.
[25:19.040 --> 25:21.280]  Now, of course, uh, she didn't forge the bill.
[25:21.400 --> 25:22.180]  She didn't make the bill.
[25:22.600 --> 25:29.560]  In fact, if you go to Nino's on the corner of 8th Street and Avenue A, I was there last night, you will see one of these bills on the tip jar.
[25:30.180 --> 25:31.200]  Yeah, they're everywhere.
[25:31.420 --> 25:32.020]  Everyone has them.
[25:32.100 --> 25:34.340]  But nobody's stupid enough to try and pass them off.
[25:34.420 --> 25:37.260]  And I think you'd really be, uh, a claw to actually take one.
[25:37.400 --> 25:39.260]  I got a million dollar bill last Friday night.
[25:39.640 --> 25:40.720]  In exchange for what?
[25:40.920 --> 25:42.820]  No, it was, it's someone's business card.
[25:43.000 --> 25:43.500]  Oh, okay.
[25:43.740 --> 25:44.000]  All right.
[25:44.100 --> 25:45.700]  But was it the size of a dollar bill?
[25:45.880 --> 25:46.500]  Yes, yes.
[25:46.640 --> 25:46.840]  Really?
[25:47.040 --> 25:47.660]  It's the right size.
[25:47.800 --> 25:49.320]  And it was a bail bondsman, no less.
[25:49.760 --> 25:51.000]  But, uh, two-sided.
[25:51.160 --> 25:51.740]  Uh, two-sided.
[25:51.940 --> 25:52.940]  Where, where do you put your name?
[25:53.240 --> 25:54.420]  Oh, it was, it was all over the front.
[25:54.660 --> 25:54.700]  Okay.
[25:54.700 --> 25:56.320]  It was, you know, cleverly added.
[25:56.620 --> 25:56.920]  All right.
[25:57.040 --> 25:59.100]  Well, these ones, I think, are, are mass produced.
[25:59.380 --> 26:00.860]  Yeah, no, these are, this has the Statue of Liberty on it or something?
[26:01.080 --> 26:02.200]  Yeah, Statue of Liberty on the front.
[26:02.400 --> 26:02.880]  It's a novelty.
[26:03.140 --> 26:09.560]  And, you know, it's going to reach the stage now where to protect the American public, they're going to make these illegal because people might think that they're really worth a million dollars.
[26:09.800 --> 26:11.720]  Ah, that, that ties in nicely to my story.
[26:11.820 --> 26:15.000]  There was a slight drive to do that about 10, 15 years ago.
[26:15.600 --> 26:20.260]  Uh, $10,000 bills were sold for a while for about 200 bucks as novelties.
[26:21.100 --> 26:28.360]  And, uh, someone actually successfully passed it several times in the New York City transit system.
[26:28.820 --> 26:31.700]  Uh, they called up what's known as a part-time booth.
[26:31.820 --> 26:33.540]  This is a booth that's only open rush hours.
[26:33.920 --> 26:35.420]  Pretended to be a supervisor.
[26:35.740 --> 26:37.780]  Said, well, how much you got in tokens?
[26:38.300 --> 26:41.720]  The clerk said, well, I've got like 8,000 or 6,000 or whatever.
[26:41.720 --> 26:46.460]  At the time, that's worth 3,000 or, or, you know, whatever, dollars.
[26:48.080 --> 26:52.640]  Supervisor, supposed supervisor, says, well, okay, I have some people who want to do a bulk token purchase.
[26:52.640 --> 26:53.680]  You have just enough.
[26:54.260 --> 26:56.220]  They're going to pay with a $10,000 bill.
[26:57.000 --> 27:00.640]  A couple of people came over, said, hi, did, uh, did your boss call?
[27:00.780 --> 27:03.000]  We're here to buy, you know, 5,000 tokens.
[27:03.780 --> 27:05.320]  We have a $10,000 bill.
[27:05.600 --> 27:09.140]  And so they got the tokens, they got the change, they got on their merry way.
[27:09.140 --> 27:20.240]  The way that the accounting system works for the transit authority, uh, this would not get counted by anyone else for a week or so until, uh, afterwards.
[27:20.520 --> 27:25.220]  So, a week or so later, the clerk gets a phone call saying, you've got problems.
[27:26.380 --> 27:27.400]  When did this happen?
[27:27.640 --> 27:29.440]  Uh, this happened in the mid-80s.
[27:29.580 --> 27:33.000]  Well, you said, uh, uh, $10,000 for 5,000 tokens?
[27:33.320 --> 27:33.800]  Well...
[27:33.800 --> 27:34.300]  That's current price.
[27:34.340 --> 27:35.500]  No, no, no, no, no, no, no.
[27:35.500 --> 27:38.760]  I, uh, I don't remember how many tokens it was.
[27:38.980 --> 27:40.740]  Sounds like the transit authority ripped off these categories.
[27:41.140 --> 27:46.220]  Probably, no, the tokens were probably 90 cents or a dollar, perhaps $1.15 at the time.
[27:46.400 --> 27:46.540]  Uh-huh.
[27:46.840 --> 27:51.320]  And where this woman really made her mistake was that she went to Walmart instead of Radio Shack.
[27:52.960 --> 27:54.560]  Well, Radio Shack, they would have gotten her name.
[27:54.580 --> 28:00.220]  Did she actually expect that they would have $998,000 in change in the establishment?
[28:00.400 --> 28:02.340]  I wonder if she would have counted the change, you know?
[28:02.500 --> 28:04.740]  Make sure that she wasn't being, you know, stiffed on the change.
[28:05.600 --> 28:09.380]  Are there $1,600 worth of products that anyone wants at Walmart?
[28:10.400 --> 28:15.880]  People who buy in quantity, you know, they go to these price club places and they just buy these huge vats of things.
[28:15.880 --> 28:21.180]  I would have tried this at Tiffany's, perhaps, or maybe not Tiffany's, but something more upscale than Walmart.
[28:21.340 --> 28:22.300]  Oh, they're wise to these things.
[28:22.400 --> 28:24.820]  Maybe she thought that Walmart, she might have a chance of getting away with it.
[28:24.900 --> 28:25.380]  Oh, perhaps.
[28:25.960 --> 28:29.460]  Well, how can you be charged with counterfeiting a denomination that doesn't exist?
[28:29.680 --> 28:30.700]  That's a good question.
[28:31.160 --> 28:31.360]  Ooh.
[28:31.620 --> 28:33.100]  Well, she wasn't charged with counterfeiting.
[28:33.200 --> 28:34.140]  She was charged with fraud.
[28:34.140 --> 28:35.840]  Well, she was charged with forgery.
[28:36.160 --> 28:36.520]  Forgery.
[28:37.240 --> 28:38.700]  Which, I guess, is somewhere in between.
[28:39.380 --> 28:39.580]  Yeah.
[28:40.060 --> 28:41.680]  I think they're trying to figure out what to charge.
[28:41.780 --> 28:46.320]  She basically should be charged with stupid because that's the only crime I see here is somebody...
[28:46.320 --> 28:48.160]  I mean, why is she even in jail?
[28:48.160 --> 28:52.300]  It's so stupid to even expect somebody to accept something like that.
[28:52.520 --> 28:57.300]  It's like, you know, holding up a coconut and thinking someone's going to accept that as currency.
[28:58.100 --> 28:59.000]  What's wrong with coconut?
[28:59.160 --> 29:00.960]  I'm just saying, you know, it's not going to work.
[29:01.040 --> 29:01.880]  If this were Hawaii.
[29:02.100 --> 29:03.180]  It worked for me when I was shipper.
[29:03.180 --> 29:04.140]  Okay, fine.
[29:04.340 --> 29:04.580]  Fine.
[29:05.020 --> 29:06.000]  Maybe it's a bad example.
[29:06.940 --> 29:09.920]  But the point is, nobody in their right mind would take this.
[29:10.060 --> 29:14.040]  So, you know, put the merchandise back and send the person on their way.
[29:14.160 --> 29:15.300]  I don't want to see what the crime is.
[29:15.540 --> 29:19.600]  If the person really believed that was going to work, I think they have some mental issues that need to be addressed.
[29:19.960 --> 29:21.100]  There's a famous artist.
[29:21.340 --> 29:31.780]  I forget his name, but he's known for hand-drawn counterfeit notes that are so lifelike that they're easily passed.
[29:32.200 --> 29:33.480]  Now, he has a...
[29:33.480 --> 29:35.380]  I saw a TV documentary on this.
[29:35.400 --> 29:36.040]  On Nova.
[29:36.880 --> 29:37.240]  Exactly.
[29:37.580 --> 29:38.580]  Yeah, and he...
[29:38.580 --> 29:38.860]  The artist's left.
[29:38.960 --> 29:40.060]  Now, when he goes and bought...
[29:40.060 --> 29:40.820]  He actually...
[29:40.820 --> 29:41.740]  They followed him.
[29:41.800 --> 29:43.140]  He went out and purchased goods.
[29:43.260 --> 29:45.220]  He bought a fan and some other household goods.
[29:45.220 --> 29:48.880]  But he carefully explained to the merchant, this is a...
[29:48.880 --> 29:51.360]  This is a note that I created.
[29:52.560 --> 29:54.540]  And he explained that this isn't...
[29:54.540 --> 29:55.500]  This is not a U.S.
[29:55.560 --> 29:56.020]  government note.
[29:56.120 --> 29:57.460]  This is a note that I created.
[29:58.060 --> 30:03.460]  And I am willing to trade you this piece of art that I've created for these goods.
[30:04.100 --> 30:05.660]  And the person said, okay.
[30:06.380 --> 30:08.580]  And they weren't able to charge him with anything.
[30:08.720 --> 30:09.480]  And one of these...
[30:09.480 --> 30:15.820]  This artist is so famous that I can't remember his name that these notes are actually worth hundreds of dollars because they're...
[30:15.820 --> 30:18.560]  Or maybe thousands because they're so good and they're in high demand.
[30:19.120 --> 30:21.620]  But that's a way you can get away with this.
[30:21.700 --> 30:28.180]  If you represent it as a piece of art and not legal tender and if the merchant goes along with it, you can get away with it.
[30:28.800 --> 30:32.120]  I believe the artist's last name is Boggs, but I'm not sure.
[30:32.980 --> 30:33.340]  Okay.
[30:34.300 --> 30:37.020]  Well, a friend of mine actually got a counterfeit $10 bill last week.
[30:38.140 --> 30:38.900]  Yeah, it's true.
[30:39.020 --> 30:40.780]  I didn't think they made counterfeit $10 bills.
[30:41.080 --> 30:42.980]  But, you know, I actually felt the thing myself.
[30:43.200 --> 30:45.820]  It didn't feel like the paper was completely wrong.
[30:46.700 --> 30:52.200]  So, either the Treasury Department really messed up or there's a counterfeit bill floating around.
[30:52.320 --> 30:59.520]  And, you know, I've said, I've gone on the record as saying, if anybody out there has a counterfeit bill, I will buy it at face value, which completely defeats the whole purpose of money.
[31:00.000 --> 31:01.500]  I just want to have it as a novelty.
[31:02.140 --> 31:03.060]  Can't you get in trouble for owning it?
[31:03.060 --> 31:03.820]  I'm not sure if that's legal.
[31:04.040 --> 31:05.460]  Well, they'd have to know I owned it.
[31:06.420 --> 31:06.780]  Okay.
[31:06.880 --> 31:08.040]  I smell sting.
[31:08.180 --> 31:16.100]  A corporation searches my house or something, you know, breaks in like they do in Europe and finds it there, you know.
[31:16.540 --> 31:17.540]  And then I can always plead ignorance.
[31:17.940 --> 31:19.760]  Except for the fact that I've talked about it over the air.
[31:20.140 --> 31:34.160]  We've talked in the past how Wired did an article three, four years ago and how computer graphics programs are such that every high school kid or except the ones we know seem to print up their own money and attempt to purchase with that.
[31:34.400 --> 31:35.140]  Pass it in the lunchroom.
[31:35.200 --> 31:35.860]  Not with Photoshop anymore.
[31:36.540 --> 31:36.680]  Yeah.
[31:36.900 --> 31:37.780]  Not with the new one, no.
[31:38.160 --> 31:38.320]  Nope.
[31:38.360 --> 31:39.360]  Well, unless...
[31:39.900 --> 31:40.600]  Give it a year.
[31:40.860 --> 31:41.300]  Give it a year.
[31:42.240 --> 31:48.860]  Speaking of phoniness, basically mobile phone companies are helping people to lie.
[31:49.060 --> 31:54.480]  A German company has come up with a mobile phone accessory which can play background noises during a call.
[31:54.540 --> 31:58.300]  Seems like a similar story that we reported on years ago involving payphones.
[31:58.880 --> 32:01.480]  Users have a choice of nine sounds.
[32:01.480 --> 32:07.980]  They can pretend to be in a traffic jam, a dentist surgery, a circus parade, or a thunderstorm.
[32:08.660 --> 32:12.540]  The firm is known as Simeda, S-I-M-E-D-A.
[32:13.080 --> 32:17.960]  They admit the morality of the system is a bit dubious but insist it is just a bit of fun.
[32:18.820 --> 32:30.540]  Advertising for the sound cover system on Simeda's website spells out the new alternatives to conventional methods such as putting on a croaky voice or blowing down the receiver whispering, you're breaking up.
[32:32.460 --> 32:35.960]  Did you wake up late for work and you want your boss to think you're caught in traffic, it says.
[32:36.160 --> 32:39.500]  Select the traffic jam background and give him a call from your bedroom.
[32:39.600 --> 32:46.180]  The thing is, the boss is going to get wise to this after a while because the traffic jam probably sounds exactly the same for every single one of the employees who uses it.
[32:46.340 --> 32:52.720]  And if you use it yourself, you're going to hear the same horns, the same cars, eventually, eventually you're going to realize what's going on here.
[32:53.200 --> 33:00.700]  The selection includes a phone ringing 15 seconds into a conversation so you can get rid of an unwanted caller by telling him you're wanted on the other line.
[33:00.720 --> 33:08.580]  I assume it's a desk phone that's sitting next to your cell phone that you're talking on because obviously they wouldn't hear a phone ringing if someone called you and got called waiting.
[33:09.420 --> 33:16.180]  We are thinking about the future of background photographs and this idea came up, Simeda's chief executive Liviu Tofan said.
[33:16.260 --> 33:20.400]  He added, there had been an incredible buzz since the accessory went on sale a few days ago.
[33:21.280 --> 33:34.860]  If you needed to make a call to your boss or girlfriend and you should get a friend to make some noise in the background or stick your head out the window to pretend you're in a traffic jam, said Jason Jenkins, deputy editor of the leading gadget and technology magazine T3.
[33:35.480 --> 33:38.580]  He thinks it might stifle individual creativity.
[33:38.920 --> 33:43.520]  Other experts warn some people on the other end of the line will never be fooled no matter how elaborate the scam.
[33:43.520 --> 33:49.760]  It is dishonest to disguise your voice or where you are, said Richard Wright, professor of linguistics at Washington University.
[33:49.760 --> 33:55.440]  They tracked down this professor of linguistics just to get him to say that it's dishonest to disguise your voice.
[33:55.580 --> 33:57.080]  It's amazing how the media works.
[33:57.440 --> 34:05.080]  But if a husband used the system to lie to his wife about where he was, she would probably be able to tell from his voice that he was lying.
[34:05.440 --> 34:10.320]  Initially, the product will work on selected Nokia phones and the company says it will soon be available for more.
[34:11.000 --> 34:15.620]  They also mentioned that surprisingly the crowded bar background was not selling well.
[34:16.060 --> 34:17.920]  Well, because it's so easy to emulate that.
[34:18.160 --> 34:19.340]  You just go to a crowded bar.
[34:21.280 --> 34:25.160]  So the audio mixes with your own voice inside the phone?
[34:26.100 --> 34:28.240]  I think the audio is just in the background.
[34:28.480 --> 34:40.040]  You know, like that noise that your phone always makes when you talk, that horrible sprint noise, that's, you know, it's replaced by the noise of, say, a train or a traffic jam or, you know, a bar if you tell the truth to make that an excuse.
[34:40.300 --> 34:43.920]  Is this an outboard device that you hold in your hand while you're talking on the phone?
[34:44.260 --> 34:45.080]  No, I think it's...
[34:46.100 --> 34:47.260]  It's supposed to be built in.
[34:47.420 --> 34:49.900]  Yeah, I think it's part of the software.
[34:50.060 --> 34:52.460]  It's probably part of something you can download on a Nokia phone.
[34:53.140 --> 35:02.520]  So hopefully people over there can play with the system and maybe call us on the radio and pretend to be in a traffic jam except you're really not and the laugh will be on us.
[35:02.680 --> 35:06.180]  Although I wonder what it sounds like if you really are in a traffic jam and you use the traffic jam feature.
[35:06.180 --> 35:08.240]  You have a double traffic jam effect.
[35:08.520 --> 35:12.360]  Someone could call us from a real traffic jam and tell us it's fake just for our amusement.
[35:12.640 --> 35:13.880]  Yeah, that always works.
[35:14.520 --> 35:20.320]  And we hope you don't play the wrong sound of, you know, the typewriters in the background while you're at the traffic jam.
[35:20.580 --> 35:21.100]  Yeah, yeah.
[35:22.020 --> 35:34.180]  Speaking of European and the hijinks, Amsterdam police will use bicycles equipped with hidden GPS transmitters to bait thieves and track them down in the latest effort to stamp out rampant bike theft.
[35:34.740 --> 35:37.440]  Cycling as a way of life in Holland, obviously.
[35:37.700 --> 35:39.820]  There are more bicycles than people.
[35:40.000 --> 35:43.640]  I don't know how that works, but they have more bicycles than people.
[35:43.860 --> 35:47.220]  And of those, about a tenth of them are stolen every year.
[35:47.480 --> 35:47.800]  Wow.
[35:48.080 --> 35:55.300]  Actually, a tenth of the ones in Amsterdam, which is about between 80,000 and 150,000 are stolen along with people's cell phones.
[35:56.000 --> 35:57.580]  But I won't get into that.
[35:57.940 --> 35:59.520]  You do know how this works, though.
[35:59.860 --> 36:02.460]  Well, I'm just saying, you know, there's a lot of theft going on.
[36:02.460 --> 36:07.160]  And bicycles are so common that you would think that everybody would just have one as it is.
[36:07.700 --> 36:08.600]  But apparently not.
[36:09.080 --> 36:11.060]  I guess people steal them and then sell them.
[36:11.180 --> 36:12.720]  That's how you get more than one per person.
[36:12.860 --> 36:14.460]  You steal your second one.
[36:14.480 --> 36:14.980]  That must be what's happening.
[36:15.820 --> 36:24.780]  Anyway, it would be great to get hold of the organized bicycle thieves to track the whereabouts of stolen bikes and see if any end up in an official bicycle shop, said Amsterdam police spokesman Rob Van Der Veen.
[36:24.900 --> 36:30.880]  We just want to do everything we can to combat bicycle theft and we're going to use new GPS technology.
[36:31.420 --> 36:33.560]  It's a waste of a satellite if you ask me.
[36:34.280 --> 36:39.420]  I have all these bicycles being tracked by something 22,000 miles up in space.
[36:39.980 --> 36:41.780]  The campaign will be starting in spring.
[36:41.780 --> 36:49.140]  Police will leave locked bikes with secret GPS emitters in Amsterdam's bike theft hotspots such as the historic city center.
[36:49.140 --> 36:59.060]  GPS, the worldwide radio navigation system used for shipping and military purposes enables users to pinpoint the position, speed, and time to locate themselves or an object.
[36:59.360 --> 37:05.660]  Bike theft is so widespread in the capital that rental shops won't let customers leave without giving them a crash course on bike locking.
[37:06.420 --> 37:34.140]  And the thing is a lot of the bike thefts supposedly are done by drug addicts who sell stolen bikes quick to pay for the next fix but also a lot of them are impulsive thieves they're known as impulsive thieves sometimes students often drunk and they steal a bike to get home after their own has been stolen much like in the film Bicycle Thief which is exactly what happens there but now you're going
[37:34.140 --> 37:43.240]  to have all these bicycles with GPS transmitters on them you won't know which ones they are and eventually maybe people will put those in their own bikes to protect them.
[37:43.240 --> 37:43.760]  There's a way to know.
[37:44.500 --> 37:45.400]  What's that way, Bernie?
[37:45.520 --> 37:46.360]  There's a way to know.
[37:46.460 --> 38:06.840]  If you just had one of the scanning receivers like a police scanner type radio that's portable and knew what frequency these things transmitted or frequency counter which we used recently you could find out which of these bikes they had these huge bike racks in Holland there were just thousands and thousands of bikes it's quite amazing you could just sort of walk through these and see where the
[38:06.840 --> 38:14.360]  signal pops up like ah this must be the one and then you could sort of sit back and casually watch someone steal it and get apprehended that'd be pretty entertaining.
[38:14.580 --> 38:16.760]  How strong a signal would something like that send out?
[38:17.020 --> 38:41.580]  Well if you were it would probably have to be at least a watt or so to be picked up by the police car receivers so a frequency counter within a few feet away from it would light up and indicate the frequency that's transmitting so that would I think it's quite feasible to walk through one of those big bike racks and see if see if you grab a signal and then just sit back and watch the watch the
[38:41.580 --> 38:41.820]  show.
[38:42.340 --> 38:43.140]  I have an idea.
[38:43.820 --> 38:44.240]  Yes Jim?
[38:44.620 --> 38:54.720]  We go to well you guys I can't we go to a big bike rack find the GPS equipped the bikes take out the little GPS devices put them all in one bike.
[38:55.560 --> 38:55.980]  Wow.
[38:56.160 --> 38:58.520]  That person's going to be in a lot of trouble when he steals that bike.
[38:59.900 --> 39:04.340]  Okay finally Or put it in the back of a police officer's bike because the police ride bikes there too.
[39:04.480 --> 39:04.760]  They certainly do.
[39:04.760 --> 39:05.260]  That could be entertaining.
[39:05.520 --> 39:05.920]  They certainly do.
[39:06.640 --> 39:12.380]  I'm sure I'm sure our Dutch friends are already thinking of all kinds of ways to make this a big adventure.
[39:12.620 --> 39:15.020]  So we'll be reporting on this as it develops as well.
[39:15.220 --> 39:19.060]  And finally we have this story and then we'll take some phone calls 212-209-2900.
[39:20.320 --> 39:26.020]  Bernie maybe you heard about this particular person out in Wisconsin.
[39:26.820 --> 39:32.600]  A former UW grad student was found guilty of interfering with police radio transmissions.
[39:33.880 --> 39:39.920]  Rajiv Mitra of Brookfield was convicted on two federal counts of interfering with emergency communications on Thursday.
[39:40.280 --> 39:44.940]  He testified the transmissions happened accidentally when two wires rubbed against the transmitter.
[39:45.680 --> 39:50.560]  Police said he interfered with their communications during the Halloween riots on State Street in Madison.
[39:51.240 --> 39:56.320]  Each count carries a maximum sentence of 10 years in prison and a $250,000 fine.
[39:56.480 --> 39:58.400]  He's going to be sentenced on May 12th.
[39:58.440 --> 39:59.440]  Did you hear anything about this, Bernie?
[39:59.800 --> 40:09.000]  Yes, he's actually being charged under a new provision of the Patriot Act which makes it a federal felony to interfere with the emergency communication systems.
[40:09.720 --> 40:13.260]  And this guy apparently interfered either intentionally or unintentionally.
[40:13.620 --> 40:15.160]  I happen to think it was intentional.
[40:15.420 --> 40:23.920]  But anyway, he was broadcasting sound clips from porn movies over the local police repeater.
[40:24.280 --> 40:31.080]  And the police were having trouble for quite a few months with this and they finally tracked him down using radio direction finding techniques.
[40:31.560 --> 40:34.900]  And he's in a whole heap of trouble.
[40:35.180 --> 40:45.400]  So, you know, before the Patriot Act these were handled these cases of intentional radio interference were handled by local police in county courts under state law.
[40:45.600 --> 40:51.480]  And now he's being charged with multiple counts of federal felonies under the Patriot Act.
[40:51.540 --> 40:54.580]  So he's looking at maybe 20 years in prison for this son.
[40:55.340 --> 41:00.900]  He's a graduate graduate student, MBA graduate student at the University of Wisconsin.
[41:01.140 --> 41:02.740]  So he's in a heap of trouble.
[41:02.900 --> 41:04.000]  So we'll see what happens.
[41:04.500 --> 41:19.980]  Well, the interesting thing about this is that back in 2002, the police departments out in Madison, they upgraded their radio equipment from 450 megahertz to an 800 megahertz narrow band trunked radio system.
[41:20.080 --> 41:22.360]  I was always under the impression that that was kind of secure.
[41:22.840 --> 41:23.480]  Not really.
[41:23.700 --> 41:25.420]  Digital systems are a little more secure.
[41:25.560 --> 41:30.840]  Of course, if you have one of the digital transmitters and know the system IDs, you could still hack it.
[41:30.960 --> 41:33.400]  But a trunk system is really an analog system.
[41:33.560 --> 41:36.340]  It just hops frequencies more frequently.
[41:36.600 --> 41:38.380]  So it really wasn't...
[41:38.380 --> 41:45.520]  He just was able to get an 800 megahertz transmitter and apparently he built it himself from what I read about the case, which wouldn't have been terribly difficult.
[41:45.680 --> 41:48.540]  He could have even modified a cell phone probably to do this.
[41:49.220 --> 41:58.000]  But in any case, whether he did this intentionally or not, he's in a mess of trouble and it'll be interesting to see what his sentence is and he should be sentenced shortly, I think.
[41:58.980 --> 41:59.700]  Yes, in May.
[42:00.020 --> 42:01.480]  So we'll follow that as well.
[42:01.760 --> 42:02.620]  Okay, take some phone calls.
[42:02.720 --> 42:04.800]  212-209-2900.
[42:05.140 --> 42:08.560]  Listening to Off the Hook, you can write to us OTH at 2600.com.
[42:09.220 --> 42:10.080]  Should we give out the mailing address?
[42:10.240 --> 42:10.620]  Off the Hook.
[42:11.560 --> 42:15.320]  Care of WBAI, 120 Wall Street, New York, New York.
[42:16.020 --> 42:18.600]  1-0-0-0-5.
[42:19.680 --> 42:21.120]  And good evening, you're on the air.
[42:21.620 --> 42:23.320]  Well, how do you like that?
[42:23.540 --> 42:24.500]  Let's try this one over here.
[42:24.660 --> 42:25.520]  Good evening, you're on the air.
[42:26.580 --> 42:27.080]  Go ahead.
[42:27.560 --> 42:28.140]  Oh, hey, great.
[42:28.260 --> 42:29.080]  I'm going to turn down my radio.
[42:29.340 --> 42:29.720]  Good idea.
[42:30.000 --> 42:30.160]  Okay.
[42:30.880 --> 42:32.780]  A friend of mine got a counterfeit $20 bill.
[42:33.060 --> 42:33.380]  Really?
[42:33.680 --> 42:35.380]  A while ago, like a long time ago.
[42:35.440 --> 42:42.020]  And the whole problem that he had was the dilemma of what to do with it because he was going to turn it in and then he wouldn't have any money after that.
[42:42.160 --> 42:44.220]  Yeah, they don't give you the cash value for it.
[42:44.220 --> 42:47.080]  No, no, they're just like, okay, sucker, but thanks for getting rid of it.
[42:47.280 --> 42:49.300]  Yeah, and they look at you with suspicion too at that point.
[42:49.500 --> 42:49.940]  Yeah, exactly.
[42:50.180 --> 42:54.580]  So he, and he, he doesn't, you know, he doesn't just give away money like that.
[42:54.660 --> 42:56.960]  I mean, he kind of had this moral thing of like, what do I do with this money?
[42:57.020 --> 42:58.660]  So he ended up putting it back into circulation.
[42:59.180 --> 43:00.620]  It's a no-win situation.
[43:00.960 --> 43:01.620]  It isn't.
[43:02.740 --> 43:11.860]  Well, technically if you turn it into a police or law enforcement department, you get a receipt and you can take it off your taxes if you itemize, but still, you're losing money then.
[43:12.600 --> 43:12.860]  Sure.
[43:13.000 --> 43:14.740]  That sounds like a great way to have a tax deduction.
[43:14.900 --> 43:16.180]  That's a great way to have an income.
[43:16.380 --> 43:16.920]  Sure, there you go.
[43:17.220 --> 43:17.620]  Hey, yeah.
[43:17.960 --> 43:18.180]  All right.
[43:18.240 --> 43:20.800]  Print up counterfeit money and turn it is right here.
[43:20.920 --> 43:22.420]  This is conspiracy over the airwaves now.
[43:22.800 --> 43:27.320]  But this whole thing that he wanted to do this thing where he wanted to put it back into the industry where he got it.
[43:27.760 --> 43:28.520]  And that was the thing.
[43:28.580 --> 43:30.780]  He was saying, well, I got it from a store.
[43:31.540 --> 43:33.940]  And then, and he ended up giving it back to a cab driver.
[43:34.040 --> 43:43.580]  And I was kind of, you know, we're discussing the whole moral thing about this, you know, you know, what certain person makes doing, you know, cab driving and what the person makes, you know, he, they're not accounted for when they're at Dwayne Reed or something like that.
[43:43.680 --> 43:47.300]  I don't think there's any justification for passing it on to some unknowing person.
[43:47.300 --> 43:48.000]  No, there isn't.
[43:48.060 --> 43:48.860]  And that was the whole thing.
[43:48.960 --> 43:50.820]  I kind of was keeping my mouth shut about that.
[43:50.940 --> 43:53.320]  But, you know, somebody's suffering eventually.
[43:53.400 --> 43:54.760]  You're just passing off the suffering.
[43:54.980 --> 43:55.540]  Right, right.
[43:56.220 --> 43:57.200]  Well, it's an interesting thing.
[43:57.280 --> 44:01.700]  If you get one, you know, I look at it as kind of like, well, this isn't exactly what I wanted, but it's kind of interesting.
[44:01.800 --> 44:04.860]  So I might as well hold on to it and it's a good conversation piece.
[44:05.080 --> 44:06.500]  Well, I'm glad to know that you buy them
[44:09.920 --> 44:11.740]  and make this, you know, a profession or anything like that.
[44:11.800 --> 44:21.160]  But I'm just saying if someone comes up to me and says, oh, by the way, I think this bill is counterfeit, I will give them, assuming it's not in tatters, I'll give them the equivalent because, you know, I'd like to examine it myself.
[44:21.340 --> 44:23.500]  And if it is counterfeit, it's kind of a cool thing to have.
[44:23.660 --> 44:28.760]  But, you know, I wouldn't want to have, say, a hundred of them because then it gets kind of to be a money loser, literally.
[44:29.080 --> 44:39.820]  Well, when I was doing a retail job and they used to show us how to, you know, look for them and stuff like that and there's all these different methods and you take them and wipe them across a piece of paper or you look at this and look at that and it's just...
[44:39.820 --> 44:50.980]  And you look at the face when it went to the $100 bill when Franklin's big face kind of appeared first, he had that kind of look on his face of disapproval, like, ah, shame on you kind of thing for counterfeiting my face or something.
[44:51.220 --> 44:51.860]  Yeah, yeah.
[44:52.160 --> 44:53.080]  But anyway, thanks a lot.
[44:53.240 --> 44:54.000]  All right, thanks for calling.
[44:55.660 --> 44:56.380]  Yes, uh...
[44:56.380 --> 45:04.680]  One of the things that I did when I was out near the Denver Mint, I bought an uncut sheet of dollar bills for the same purpose that it's just an interesting conversation piece.
[45:04.920 --> 45:06.420]  Well, those you can buy though, legally.
[45:06.620 --> 45:07.120]  Yes, yes.
[45:07.240 --> 45:08.860]  And I prefer to do that when I can.
[45:09.180 --> 45:12.060]  You know, there's no need to break laws.
[45:12.640 --> 45:13.500]  Is it legal tender?
[45:13.620 --> 45:17.820]  Can you walk into a store and say, uh, here's $20 but you're all stuck together?
[45:18.000 --> 45:19.300]  It's actually, I think, $36.
[45:19.840 --> 45:21.500]  And, uh, yeah, you can cut it up.
[45:21.620 --> 45:22.660]  It's printed very well.
[45:22.880 --> 45:25.520]  Uh, I thought it would make excellent wrapping paper for a gift.
[45:25.680 --> 45:26.620]  Ah, funny story.
[45:26.960 --> 45:32.460]  Neiman Marcus sold it for years as wrapping paper and people kept saying, I've thrown the wrapping paper out.
[45:33.560 --> 45:35.220]  Not realizing it was real money.
[45:36.000 --> 45:37.220]  Let's take another phone call.
[45:37.340 --> 45:39.120]  212-209-2900.
[45:39.380 --> 45:40.060]  Hey, good evening.
[45:40.140 --> 45:40.520]  You're on the air.
[45:41.160 --> 45:41.600]  Hey, guys.
[45:41.680 --> 45:41.920]  Good evening.
[45:42.120 --> 45:42.420]  How you doing?
[45:42.760 --> 45:43.080]  All right.
[45:44.040 --> 45:45.100]  Found something interesting.
[45:45.840 --> 46:01.620]  Um, I don't know if you've seen any of the ads, but Comcast and Cablevision for their home cable internet access will sell you, uh, a router with a single IP address and they market it as one machine.
[46:01.620 --> 46:06.680]  and if you'd like to have multiple machines in your home, you need to buy additional routers.
[46:07.620 --> 46:14.340]  Now, compared against DSL, you know, you take it and plug it into a switch and you can hook up multiple machines.
[46:15.600 --> 46:25.860]  Has anybody seen this continuing or, or is it marketed as such to be, you know, a multiple purchase for one home or...
[46:26.580 --> 46:27.580]  What have you seen?
[46:28.160 --> 46:32.840]  Um, from what I understand, you get a router and you can put up to 25 machines on it.
[46:33.260 --> 46:35.100]  Or actually, no, wait, some of them are down to five.
[46:36.380 --> 46:41.520]  But you can, you can hook up a hub to it and run many machines off that.
[46:41.780 --> 46:44.400]  Tried it today at a friend's and it did not work.
[46:45.100 --> 46:50.120]  Well, like I said, this, if this is just coming out now, this could be a difference and I'm sure they'll lock it up as tight as they can.
[46:50.300 --> 47:05.980]  Do they have the ability that you know of to lock that down from on high so that once you get your IP at your house that you cannot then put a switch or a router there and then spread it out amongst machines?
[47:06.120 --> 47:11.500]  You need to not have a hub but an actual router which does something called NAT.
[47:14.200 --> 47:20.480]  And it's, I've seen papers for detecting NAT but I'm not aware of anyone who's actually implemented that.
[47:20.600 --> 47:28.580]  I just went to their website and I read their marketing materials and they're saying that if you want multiple machines in your home you need to buy...
[47:28.580 --> 47:34.640]  Oh, well, they want you to buy everything but what you can actually get away with may be more than what they claim.
[47:34.820 --> 47:45.780]  It's probably a violation of some companies terms of service to hook up more than one machine to the same connection but if you don't care about that then you can probably get away with it.
[47:46.920 --> 47:47.320]  Okay.
[47:47.680 --> 47:48.040]  Thanks.
[47:48.320 --> 47:48.540]  All right.
[47:48.680 --> 47:49.180]  Thanks for calling.
[47:49.640 --> 47:54.660]  And of course, we'll let people know if we learn things like that either on the radio show through the magazine or someone's going to figure it out.
[47:54.780 --> 47:55.400]  Someone always does.
[47:56.320 --> 47:59.820]  It's amazing what people can get away with even though they're not really getting away with anything.
[47:59.960 --> 48:04.420]  They're just using machines that they own on bandwidth that they're paying for.
[48:05.200 --> 48:06.380]  Let's take another phone call.
[48:06.500 --> 48:06.820]  Good evening.
[48:07.000 --> 48:07.560]  You're on the air.
[48:08.720 --> 48:09.120]  Hello.
[48:09.400 --> 48:09.860]  Yes, go ahead.
[48:10.400 --> 48:12.880]  I have a cable motor.
[48:12.980 --> 48:19.720]  I was just listening to the last caller and I also have a router and I've got six computers hooked up to it.
[48:19.780 --> 48:20.240]  No problem.
[48:20.800 --> 48:22.000]  What company do you use?
[48:22.880 --> 48:23.880]  Cablevision on Long Island.
[48:24.220 --> 48:25.340]  How old is your router?
[48:28.800 --> 48:29.980]  I don't know, two years?
[48:30.200 --> 48:30.940]  Yeah, see, that's...
[48:30.940 --> 48:35.160]  It has a printer, it even has a printer, what do you call it?
[48:35.320 --> 48:39.400]  A, you know, everybody can print through a printer server built in.
[48:39.900 --> 48:42.160]  He's talking about something that's just coming out brand new.
[48:42.520 --> 48:43.100]  I see.
[48:44.140 --> 48:44.500]  Okay.
[48:45.020 --> 48:46.260]  All right, there's always going to be a way though.
[48:46.400 --> 48:48.280]  We'll find it and we'll let people know.
[48:48.280 --> 48:49.900]  So, thanks for your call.
[48:50.340 --> 48:51.900]  Let's go over here.
[48:52.200 --> 48:53.020]  And good evening, you're on the air.
[48:54.440 --> 48:55.040]  Go ahead.
[48:55.820 --> 48:57.080]  Hey, Emmanuel, how you doing?
[48:57.340 --> 48:57.920]  Pretty good, how are you?
[48:58.800 --> 48:59.200]  Alrighty.
[49:00.020 --> 49:01.960]  Listen, I was wondering if you could clear something up.
[49:02.620 --> 49:09.980]  The other day I was in Barnes & Noble and I, you know, I go there regularly to pick up the, you know, 2600.
[49:09.980 --> 49:33.800]  and a guy there that was, you know, looking, standing next to me looking at the magazine said not to purchase it with a credit card because, you know, they say there's investigations going on and that the federal authorities are actually looking into bookstore purchases and libraries,
[49:35.060 --> 49:41.520]  certain, you know, magazines and books and publications would warrant a further investigation.
[49:42.160 --> 49:43.080]  Is that true?
[49:43.380 --> 49:44.420]  Of course not.
[49:44.760 --> 49:51.560]  I mean, it's no more true than the government monitoring what you buy with cash using the video cameras that are in the store.
[49:52.340 --> 49:57.400]  I mean, certainly, if they focused all of their efforts on such a thing, they could pull it off.
[49:57.480 --> 49:59.320]  They could monitor what people are buying.
[49:59.420 --> 50:05.620]  But so many people are buying so many things, there's no way they could possibly track everybody doing these suspicious things.
[50:05.980 --> 50:12.900]  So, you know, and there are always going to be people who are very afraid to do things and they'll go around telling people to be paranoid like this.
[50:13.000 --> 50:25.180]  But what you wind up doing is acting exactly the way they want you to act by not doing anything suspicious, by keeping to yourself, by not sharing ideas, you know, it's a very unhealthy way to live.
[50:25.280 --> 50:33.720]  So I say, you know, even if you suspect something like that is true, that you challenge it by getting on these lists, by flagging as many things as you possibly can.
[50:33.880 --> 50:35.880]  Although I really don't think there's any credence to this.
[50:35.880 --> 50:57.500]  Yeah, I know that with, I'm calling you from Florida, by the way, and I know that after 9-11, that all, they went, the FBI went to all the local libraries here, and we're trying to get the records of everyone that took out any type of book in any way connected with anything that happened on 9-11,
[50:57.960 --> 51:02.760]  which could be anything, books on like airplanes or flying or...
[51:02.760 --> 51:07.400]  I think, isn't that also where the pilot training school was, where they were...
[51:07.400 --> 51:07.960]  Yes.
[51:08.200 --> 51:10.080]  So that would make a little bit of sense.
[51:10.360 --> 51:16.540]  And the other thing too that you can do if you're worried about this is just subscribe, support the magazine and let it come to your house.
[51:17.000 --> 51:20.740]  Of course, then you're sending things over the internet, you know, and that could be traced...
[51:20.740 --> 51:26.500]  I don't necessarily believe, you know, all of this, but it's just scary with the stuff that they do is out there now.
[51:26.680 --> 51:29.480]  I mean, it's like you're getting to have no freedom whatsoever anymore.
[51:29.840 --> 51:38.120]  Well, you know, there's always going to be a movement to take away freedom, but we always have the power to hold on to it and it's just a question of how much we do that in the first place.
[51:38.620 --> 51:46.100]  What I tell some of my friends who commit minor crimes from time to time is that they're really not worth it.
[51:46.200 --> 51:58.440]  I mean, if the government was interested in what you bought from the store, they could find out, but it would cost them tens of thousands of dollars to find out and unless you're doing something very, very interesting, you're not worth it.
[51:59.260 --> 52:01.780]  And yeah, it's a sobering thought, but it's true.
[52:02.040 --> 52:17.420]  In fact, in Romania, they had all the tape recorders going in the hotel, monitoring all the citizens, and most of them were never listened to because there weren't enough people to listen to all of the material they were gathering and this is a regime that was bugging just about everybody or a good percentage.
[52:17.780 --> 52:23.500]  So yeah, you have to, you know, overload the system then with suspicion if it comes down to it, if there's really that kind of a threat.
[52:23.740 --> 52:30.240]  Now, speaking of all this, of revealing information and suspicious activities, we talked about this a couple of weeks ago.
[52:30.300 --> 52:31.180]  Jim, you have some more information?
[52:31.180 --> 52:36.300]  Yeah, it's at tinyearl.com slash 2SAJN.
[52:36.400 --> 52:38.800]  It's an article from today's New York Daily News.
[52:39.540 --> 52:50.080]  That website we've talked about, AJM.cc, which lists Ashcroft's home address and all sorts of people running for office and supposed undercover cops.
[52:50.340 --> 53:09.360]  The Daily News now, being the third media outlet to jump on the bandwagon, blatantly labels it exclusive and points out that the NYPD is now looking into the website to see if harassment charges are warranted against its creator, Alan Munn, age 53, of Jackson Heights.
[53:09.720 --> 53:10.800]  That's the guy we talked about.
[53:10.860 --> 53:12.100]  The guy we talked about.
[53:12.660 --> 53:16.260]  I hope that's not how they got his name from listening to our radio show.
[53:16.380 --> 53:16.900]  The Daily News?
[53:16.960 --> 53:18.520]  Yes, I'm sure it's how they got his name.
[53:18.580 --> 53:22.400]  I don't think the Daily News did any investigation on this aside from asking the NYPD.
[53:22.760 --> 53:26.120]  It's good to hear you finally admit that the Daily News does know an investigative report.
[53:26.140 --> 53:26.880]  Hey, I'm a Republican.
[53:27.060 --> 53:27.460]  I'm not an idiot.
[53:27.560 --> 53:27.980]  Give me a break.
[53:28.280 --> 53:28.640]  All right.
[53:29.540 --> 53:31.940]  So, any new information in this story?
[53:32.000 --> 53:35.940]  Not really much except that the cops are irked.
[53:36.760 --> 53:46.940]  A constitutional law expert, Floyd Abrams, says the website poses a problem that is, quote, not so much a legal issue as a moral and an ethical one.
[53:47.460 --> 53:55.960]  And city council minority leader, James Otto, says the site should be shut down because absolutely nothing good could come from such a website.
[53:56.320 --> 53:56.640]  Right.
[53:56.800 --> 53:57.800]  And he continues.
[53:57.800 --> 54:02.820]  Is he supplying the angry, the demented, the deranged with the means to act on whatever troubles them?
[54:03.320 --> 54:04.740]  My opinion is no.
[54:04.740 --> 54:06.940]  They could just kill a cop in uniform if they were into it.
[54:07.500 --> 54:08.320]  And Otto continues.
[54:08.640 --> 54:14.360]  Folks logging onto this site wouldn't do so with the intention of selling us Girl Scout cookies.
[54:14.660 --> 54:16.500]  So, if you are a Girl Scout...
[54:16.500 --> 54:17.600]  I think we should do just that.
[54:17.720 --> 54:18.760]  That's exactly my point.
[54:18.860 --> 54:27.180]  If you are a Girl Scout in New York City or the mother or father of a Girl Scout in New York City, first of all, Councilman James Otto, O-D-D-O, care of City Hall.
[54:27.560 --> 54:33.000]  And secondly, go to the website, ajm.cc, find those undercover cops.
[54:33.000 --> 54:34.160]  They give a number of addresses.
[54:34.420 --> 54:37.900]  And send them a little note saying you'd like to sell them Girl Scout cookies.
[54:37.900 --> 54:43.200]  You know, there's a Boy Scout of Girl Scout cookies, but it's sponsored by people I don't like, so you should buy more.
[54:45.400 --> 54:47.760]  Okay, and that's going to just about do it for us tonight.
[54:47.860 --> 54:48.860]  And I'll have a quick announcement.
[54:49.000 --> 54:49.640]  Quickly, Bernie.
[54:51.320 --> 55:01.140]  SWLFest.com is a great radio conference this Friday and Saturday covering everything from digital broadcasting to pirate radio to shortwave broadcasting to satellite DXing.
[55:02.160 --> 55:04.200]  SWLFest.com is just north of Philadelphia.
[55:04.460 --> 55:06.780]  It's an amazing conference every time this year.
[55:06.960 --> 55:07.480]  Check it out.
[55:07.480 --> 55:10.320]  Okay, and hopefully some of us will get a chance to do that.
[55:10.720 --> 55:15.180]  We're going to close with I guess this is Russian now on top of everything else.
[55:15.480 --> 55:18.280]  If you can't handle the computer voice alone singing in Russian.
[55:20.240 --> 55:25.520]  Okay, we'll be back again next week maybe with some human music and other things like that.
[55:25.640 --> 55:25.900]  Yes, Jeff?
[55:25.980 --> 55:27.320]  This is Elmer Fudd though, isn't it?
[55:27.480 --> 55:28.580]  It might very well be.
[55:28.760 --> 55:30.040]  I haven't heard anything new from him in a while.
[55:30.740 --> 55:32.220]  Stay tuned for the Personal Computer Show.
[55:32.480 --> 55:32.960]  Good night.
[55:32.960 --> 55:33.740]  Good night.
[55:33.860 --> 55:45.300]  Good night.
[55:45.300 --> 55:51.020]  The sentence is done... and this is the second one.
[55:53.220 --> 55:55.160]  This is the second one.
[55:58.040 --> 56:02.360]  And my wife and I were blown away.
[56:02.600 --> 56:06.180]  And with the heart of my heart, I was able to play the game.
[56:06.620 --> 56:08.160]  With my heart, I lost my heart.
[56:08.380 --> 56:10.300]  I lost my heart.
[56:10.540 --> 56:11.680]  So you have to go back.
[56:11.680 --> 56:14.260]  I just watched everything over.
[56:14.260 --> 56:16.840]  It's just how it goes from time.
[56:22.440 --> 56:25.380]  It is just how it does now.
[56:26.800 --> 56:28.300]  Think about it in a while.
[56:28.300 --> 56:30.520]  So, it's still poisonous when it's like Czy I mean this a day of karma.
[56:30.840 --> 56:32.080]  But like I see it.
[56:32.260 --> 56:36.460]  And these are bullets that hit my tongue with my mouth.
[56:36.920 --> 56:41.660]  Over the into a waste of money I kept working on that a piece of money.
[56:41.660 --> 56:57.620]  I'm George – для брошей, мы будем рыжать, потому что всё время, мы
[57:09.120 --> 57:12.820]  будем рыжать...
[57:12.820 --> 57:15.200]  И geekта Woj