[00:00.000 --> 00:10.380]  Life, appropriate responses to the third anniversary of 9-11, and the broader question of what communities can do when political leaders appropriate issues for their own purposes.
[00:10.760 --> 00:13.960]  That's Thursday, March 25th from 7 to 9 p.m.
[00:14.060 --> 00:18.760]  at the CUNY Graduate Center, 365 Fifth Avenue at 34th Street.
[00:18.900 --> 00:20.180]  Admission is free.
[00:20.400 --> 00:24.520]  For more information, call 212-817-8215.
[00:24.520 --> 00:28.240]  That's 212-817-8215.
[00:31.200 --> 00:32.820]  And it's 7 o'clock on the nose.
[00:32.940 --> 00:34.740]  You're listening to WBAI in New York.
[00:35.060 --> 00:37.760]  It's time, once again, for Off the Hook.
[00:41.490 --> 00:45.950]  The telephone keeps ringing, so I ripped it off the wall.
[00:46.910 --> 00:51.390]  I cut myself while shaving, now I can't make a call.
[00:52.210 --> 00:56.770]  We couldn't get much worse, but if they could, they would.
[00:56.770 --> 00:59.690]  For Millie Bum, for the best, expect the worst.
[01:00.290 --> 01:02.190]  I hope that's understood.
[01:02.390 --> 01:03.270]  But Millie Bum!
[01:26.760 --> 01:27.480]  This version.
[01:33.210 --> 01:34.110]  This version.
[01:34.910 --> 01:36.530]  It's way from creation.
[01:49.510 --> 01:50.230]  This version.
[02:02.060 --> 02:04.140]  And I'll give you to everybody, the program is Off the Hook.
[02:04.260 --> 02:07.140]  Emmanuel Goldstein here with you on this Wednesday evening.
[02:07.500 --> 02:12.200]  You know, part of the beauty of radio is that people on the air, people listening, actually have no idea what's really going on.
[02:12.200 --> 02:13.620]  And, boy, we had fun tonight, didn't we?
[02:14.820 --> 02:17.220]  The power's out here at 120 Wall Street for some reason.
[02:18.020 --> 02:20.340]  I knew there was trouble when I saw the Conhead trucks downstairs.
[02:20.680 --> 02:21.880]  You knew there was trouble beforehand.
[02:22.400 --> 02:25.100]  At least we're not getting electrocuted walking down the sidewalk, you know.
[02:25.660 --> 02:26.600]  Maybe later for that.
[02:26.700 --> 02:28.280]  Well, we're not allowed on the sidewalk.
[02:28.420 --> 02:28.740]  That's right.
[02:28.740 --> 02:29.720]  We had to walk in the street.
[02:29.720 --> 02:35.020]  And then, as if that wasn't enough fun, we had to climb all the way up to the radio station, ten flights up.
[02:35.020 --> 02:37.980]  And there's people panting and huffing all the way up and down the stairs.
[02:37.980 --> 02:41.640]  I don't understand down the stairs, but people are getting out of breath going downstairs, too.
[02:41.700 --> 02:42.060]  I saw them.
[02:42.920 --> 02:45.000]  Boy, it's quite a workout, isn't it, Mike?
[02:45.460 --> 02:46.280]  It's lots of fun.
[02:46.480 --> 02:49.320]  Jim got here several hours early, so he had a chance to catch his breath.
[02:49.540 --> 02:52.140]  Yeah, and that's how you learned about it earlier.
[02:52.140 --> 02:53.720]  I figured it was a good idea to...
[02:53.720 --> 02:57.060]  You know, I'm kind of sad that you broke the surprise to me.
[02:57.140 --> 03:00.620]  I mean, it would have been so much fun for me to arrive and realize then that I had to climb.
[03:00.720 --> 03:01.780]  I was ready for it.
[03:01.840 --> 03:03.440]  I was in training all afternoon for this.
[03:05.000 --> 03:05.360]  Yeah.
[03:05.600 --> 03:06.660]  Redhack is on his way here.
[03:06.720 --> 03:07.500]  He doesn't yet know.
[03:07.980 --> 03:08.520]  Oh, that's good.
[03:08.720 --> 03:10.740]  That he has to climb ten flights of stairs to get to the station.
[03:10.820 --> 03:11.260]  But you know what?
[03:11.340 --> 03:12.020]  It's worth it.
[03:12.340 --> 03:14.540]  WBAR is the kind of radio that you climb ten flights for.
[03:14.960 --> 03:19.840]  Your time is so taken up with everything, with all you do as publisher, editor...
[03:19.840 --> 03:22.480]  Yeah, you know, I'm so distracted, I wouldn't even notice I was climbing ten flights.
[03:22.500 --> 03:29.480]  But the point is, the reason I called you is that your time is so taken up that you would have gotten here at 6.59 and expected the elevator to whisk you here.
[03:29.500 --> 03:31.740]  I take the same bus every day, the same people on it.
[03:32.040 --> 03:33.220]  It's remarkably predictable.
[03:33.340 --> 03:35.060]  I always get here at the same moment, which is...
[03:35.060 --> 03:35.200]  Late.
[03:35.480 --> 03:39.400]  Well, yeah, but it's, you know, it wouldn't have made a difference, let's put it that way.
[03:40.640 --> 03:41.460]  Okay, well, you know what?
[03:41.540 --> 03:41.980]  This is...
[03:41.980 --> 03:42.540]  It feels wrong.
[03:42.620 --> 03:43.500]  What we're doing feels wrong.
[03:43.960 --> 03:45.240]  We have light in the studio.
[03:45.360 --> 03:46.220]  Everybody else is dark.
[03:46.240 --> 03:47.440]  How about some solidarity here?
[03:48.100 --> 03:48.760]  I don't know.
[03:48.960 --> 03:49.900]  We won't be able to read things.
[03:49.900 --> 03:51.620]  We'll never have this opportunity again.
[03:51.820 --> 03:55.080]  And think when Red Hat comes to the door to find an entirely blackened studio.
[03:55.420 --> 03:56.700]  Wait a minute, let me get my flashlight.
[03:57.000 --> 03:59.380]  We have two lights here, let's kill them.
[03:59.700 --> 04:00.180]  All right, Jim.
[04:00.240 --> 04:01.420]  And I'll try to read these stories somehow.
[04:01.720 --> 04:02.980]  And we'll get Bernie S.
[04:03.100 --> 04:03.640]  on the phone, too.
[04:03.920 --> 04:05.520]  Maybe he can read stories for us.
[04:05.540 --> 04:06.760]  Don't unplug it, just turn it off.
[04:07.400 --> 04:08.820]  Because we'll never figure out where the plug is.
[04:08.820 --> 04:10.080]  Well, I figured just in case.
[04:10.080 --> 04:10.680]  All right.
[04:11.100 --> 04:12.940]  Now we're going to get a dial tone here.
[04:15.620 --> 04:16.420]  And, um...
[04:17.000 --> 04:17.540]  Thank you.
[04:17.580 --> 04:20.800]  Thanks for T-Dub, we have a method of dialing now that...
[04:20.800 --> 04:22.780]  Well, you don't hear the tones over the air.
[04:22.920 --> 04:25.080]  So we'll be able to call Bernie S.'s number.
[04:26.640 --> 04:28.460]  I can't see the magic button anymore.
[04:28.960 --> 04:29.360]  Okay.
[04:29.780 --> 04:30.160]  No, that's fine.
[04:30.260 --> 04:30.540]  I can do it.
[04:30.580 --> 04:32.220]  I can do it without the flashlight.
[04:33.180 --> 04:34.380]  And now we're dialing his number.
[04:35.520 --> 04:41.500]  Of course, the only light in the rest of the station was previously that which leaked out from the studio.
[04:41.500 --> 04:42.900]  So now they're in the dark, too.
[04:44.540 --> 04:45.160]  Oh, yeah.
[04:46.620 --> 04:48.380]  All right, now I have to enter the secret code.
[04:50.240 --> 04:51.980]  I'm not sure this is a good idea, really.
[04:52.160 --> 04:52.920]  No, this is light in the hallway.
[04:53.080 --> 04:55.340]  This keeps flashing on and off every couple of seconds.
[04:55.880 --> 04:56.560]  But you know what?
[04:56.600 --> 05:01.580]  If you're not prepared, if you don't have flashlights, how will you be prepared for when the terrorists strike next?
[05:02.400 --> 05:04.020]  This, my friends, can be a drill.
[05:04.260 --> 05:05.120]  We're here in the dark.
[05:05.800 --> 05:07.320]  Oh, they're being funny next door.
[05:07.400 --> 05:07.900]  There you go.
[05:07.900 --> 05:08.480]  Oh, flat.
[05:08.860 --> 05:09.660]  Hey, how are you doing?
[05:10.280 --> 05:10.600]  Hello.
[05:11.460 --> 05:13.520]  Hey, we have Jeff and Red Hat.
[05:13.640 --> 05:15.280]  Both are out of breath.
[05:15.420 --> 05:16.200]  Bernie, are you on the phone?
[05:16.360 --> 05:17.040]  Did you make it okay?
[05:17.540 --> 05:20.140]  Yes, I think we all arrived at the same time.
[05:20.200 --> 05:21.460]  Bernie, you don't sound out of breath at all.
[05:22.720 --> 05:23.380]  Well, no.
[05:23.880 --> 05:26.120]  I've just been through five countries, but I'm not out of breath.
[05:26.220 --> 05:29.260]  Well, we've just been through ten flights, so I think we win.
[05:29.720 --> 05:32.000]  Yeah, the power is out here in the building for some reason.
[05:32.160 --> 05:33.100]  We're doing the show in darkness.
[05:33.240 --> 05:37.100]  Out of solidarity, because this is the only room with lights, but not anymore.
[05:37.880 --> 05:39.940]  Who is pedaling the generator?
[05:40.280 --> 05:41.060]  I don't know.
[05:41.140 --> 05:42.440]  I don't know where the power is coming from.
[05:43.200 --> 05:47.880]  I thought that Jeff might be riding the bicycle generator.
[05:48.040 --> 05:52.560]  It just goes to show how easily it can all come crashing down.
[05:52.560 --> 05:54.240]  You know, just one Con Ed crew.
[05:54.480 --> 05:55.280]  That's enough to do it.
[05:55.880 --> 05:56.520]  Jeff, how are you doing?
[05:56.880 --> 05:58.440]  I'm going to live.
[05:59.500 --> 06:00.460]  Ten flights, huh?
[06:00.540 --> 06:02.960]  Well, ten flights, that's just the beginning, the end of it.
[06:03.520 --> 06:05.160]  It took me two hours.
[06:06.040 --> 06:09.440]  We sat in the tunnel on a bus for two hours.
[06:09.680 --> 06:11.080]  Con Ed has a long reach, don't they?
[06:11.880 --> 06:13.120]  How did they affect that?
[06:14.220 --> 06:15.000]  You've got me.
[06:15.200 --> 06:16.800]  I just started out...
[06:16.800 --> 06:16.820]  Two hours in a bus?
[06:17.160 --> 06:17.940]  In the tunnel?
[06:18.160 --> 06:18.680]  In the tunnel.
[06:18.680 --> 06:26.000]  And I was in Bergen County, 4.30, I get on a bus, 6.37, we land at the Port Authority.
[06:27.000 --> 06:28.300]  Even the driver was amazed.
[06:28.300 --> 06:30.620]  He said, I've never seen a take of this long.
[06:31.460 --> 06:32.800]  Bernie, now you've been overseas.
[06:32.800 --> 06:34.860]  Are you going to try and tell us that you've been through something?
[06:36.080 --> 06:40.940]  Oh, well, yeah, Leszlo and I went through a lot, but we didn't have to run up ten flights of stairs.
[06:41.180 --> 06:41.440]  Uh-huh.
[06:42.360 --> 06:42.700]  Okay.
[06:43.460 --> 06:44.680]  Well, the day is young.
[06:44.840 --> 06:45.500]  The day is young.
[06:46.080 --> 06:46.720]  Well, we're fine.
[06:47.160 --> 06:48.220]  We're dark by choice.
[06:49.460 --> 06:50.240]  That's a big flashlight.
[06:50.800 --> 06:52.140]  Are you allowed to have candles there?
[06:52.320 --> 06:53.800]  Uh, yeah, let's light up some candles.
[06:53.960 --> 06:54.900]  That sounds like fun.
[06:55.280 --> 07:02.680]  No, this is, I think, a good test to show that no matter what, no matter what adversity we have to face, we will come through it shining, because we have the telephone still.
[07:03.580 --> 07:07.800]  And we, uh, we, well, we can always talk with our voices.
[07:08.520 --> 07:10.660]  Actually, Jim, I think I will borrow your flashlight just to read your story.
[07:10.660 --> 07:11.280]  See, I told you.
[07:11.460 --> 07:12.980]  Well, I mean, you know, come on, let's be reasonable.
[07:13.660 --> 07:14.840]  I didn't print them out in Braille.
[07:14.900 --> 07:15.480]  I should have done that.
[07:15.620 --> 07:16.960]  I have a little something to share as well.
[07:17.080 --> 07:17.400]  Go ahead.
[07:18.680 --> 07:20.080]  Oh, I didn't mean to shine that directly in your eyes.
[07:20.160 --> 07:20.460]  That's okay.
[07:20.600 --> 07:20.760]  All right.
[07:21.380 --> 07:25.060]  I had to make some flights this week, and of course I chose the bad weather to do it.
[07:25.120 --> 07:25.820]  You were traveling, too?
[07:26.040 --> 07:26.280]  Yes.
[07:26.520 --> 07:26.820]  Okay.
[07:27.400 --> 07:28.680]  I was out in Indianapolis.
[07:28.860 --> 07:30.180]  Remember last year was San Diego?
[07:30.660 --> 07:30.900]  Mm-hmm.
[07:31.400 --> 07:33.160]  This year is Indianapolis, and the...
[07:33.160 --> 07:33.920]  They're very different places.
[07:34.120 --> 07:35.680]  But much, much different.
[07:35.860 --> 07:35.960]  Oh, yeah.
[07:35.960 --> 07:37.420]  So one city a year, that's what you're doing?
[07:37.740 --> 07:38.340]  Pretty much.
[07:38.460 --> 07:38.600]  Okay.
[07:38.600 --> 07:39.360]  I don't want to overdo it.
[07:39.480 --> 07:39.600]  All right.
[07:39.680 --> 07:40.580]  Fort Worth next year, maybe.
[07:40.840 --> 07:42.140]  No, actually, next year is Baltimore.
[07:42.400 --> 07:42.960]  Ah, Baltimore.
[07:43.060 --> 07:43.680]  And then Portland.
[07:43.980 --> 07:44.160]  Okay.
[07:44.580 --> 07:45.280]  Which Portland?
[07:46.040 --> 07:46.400]  Oregon.
[07:46.720 --> 07:46.940]  Okay.
[07:47.280 --> 07:47.820]  I'm sorry.
[07:48.640 --> 07:56.240]  One of the things that, because of the number of flights that were canceled and rerouting and new planes, I wound up with a bunch of boarding passes.
[07:56.720 --> 08:00.180]  So many that when I came home, I thought, well, I must have enough to get home.
[08:00.260 --> 08:01.320]  You can board any plane you want.
[08:01.440 --> 08:01.880]  Exactly.
[08:02.200 --> 08:09.200]  I went through the wrong terminal first, went through their security, with a boarding pass dated the 16th.
[08:09.640 --> 08:10.080]  Of?
[08:10.720 --> 08:11.540]  Of this month.
[08:11.860 --> 08:12.020]  Okay.
[08:12.980 --> 08:14.140]  Got through, no problem.
[08:14.200 --> 08:14.780]  No problem, sir.
[08:14.880 --> 08:15.300]  No problem.
[08:15.420 --> 08:18.060]  And then realized, oh, I'm supposed to be somewhere else.
[08:18.700 --> 08:23.080]  Went back over there, you know, not knowing, pulled out the same boarding pass.
[08:23.460 --> 08:27.020]  So there's a blue mark up here where the one guy makes his little check.
[08:28.020 --> 08:29.580]  This guy circled this area.
[08:30.140 --> 08:32.560]  By the time I got to the gate and the guy says, well, where's your thing?
[08:32.580 --> 08:33.060]  I said, here.
[08:33.340 --> 08:37.400]  He takes it, puts it under the machine and says, oh, this is no good.
[08:38.240 --> 08:38.860]  I said, oh.
[08:39.120 --> 08:41.520]  Well, I said, well, it was good enough to get through two security checkpoints.
[08:42.100 --> 08:42.880]  He said, you're kidding.
[08:43.000 --> 08:43.660]  I said, no, look.
[08:43.760 --> 08:45.400]  And I showed him the marks and he said, oh.
[08:45.580 --> 08:46.760]  And they evacuated the terminal, huh?
[08:47.000 --> 08:47.500]  No, no.
[08:47.700 --> 08:49.440]  But this is, well, TSA today.
[08:51.180 --> 08:51.660]  TSA today.
[08:51.660 --> 08:53.620]  Hey, that's a good feature I think we should have.
[08:53.860 --> 08:55.680]  I would think we should publish a zine.
[08:56.380 --> 08:56.560]  Yeah.
[08:57.460 --> 08:59.240]  Oh, Redhack, I didn't even see you over there.
[08:59.400 --> 08:59.740]  I'm sorry.
[09:00.720 --> 09:02.100]  Let's put the lights on.
[09:02.300 --> 09:03.920]  Well, no, I just had to shine it on his face.
[09:04.320 --> 09:04.940]  Okay, go ahead.
[09:05.560 --> 09:06.560]  You want to turn the lights on, Mike?
[09:06.840 --> 09:07.440]  Fine, fine.
[09:07.620 --> 09:08.180]  Give me my flash.
[09:08.280 --> 09:10.040]  But let it be known that you folded first.
[09:10.480 --> 09:11.680]  I could have done the whole show in darkness.
[09:11.680 --> 09:12.200]  All right, it's known.
[09:12.440 --> 09:13.900]  Redhack, catch your breath, man.
[09:14.040 --> 09:15.240]  Yeah, I'm catching it.
[09:15.320 --> 09:16.720]  It was unexpected.
[09:16.720 --> 09:20.980]  I had a pretty uneventful trip here.
[09:21.180 --> 09:25.200]  That's why we get to the show half an hour early, so that we can catch our breath after we go down the stairs.
[09:25.380 --> 09:25.420]  Right, right.
[09:25.700 --> 09:26.060]  All right.
[09:26.620 --> 09:29.720]  All right, lights are back on in this studio, but not in the rest of the studio.
[09:30.300 --> 09:32.860]  I feel like, you know, part of the privileged upper class here.
[09:33.020 --> 09:34.760]  It's the only time in my life, I guess, I'll ever feel that.
[09:34.900 --> 09:37.500]  I want to say I stayed with him every step of the way.
[09:37.640 --> 09:37.900]  It's true.
[09:38.040 --> 09:38.960]  You got him up the stairs, didn't you?
[09:39.340 --> 09:40.020]  All right, good for you, Jeff.
[09:40.020 --> 09:42.460]  He did pull a head at the end, but I was right behind him.
[09:42.460 --> 09:44.580]  That was when we got to 10, he kept running up to 11 and 12.
[09:44.780 --> 09:45.200]  No, no, no.
[09:45.340 --> 09:46.300]  He does things like that, I know.
[09:46.720 --> 09:47.820]  I don't like Spinal Tap.
[09:48.320 --> 09:48.500]  Yeah.
[09:49.800 --> 09:51.680]  All right, Bernie, tell us something about your trip.
[09:51.720 --> 09:52.540]  What were you doing out of the country?
[09:53.660 --> 10:04.860]  Well, Lazlo and I went to cover the CBIT conference, which is the world's largest information technology and telecommunications conference in the world.
[10:05.980 --> 10:09.800]  And there were, this was a massive event.
[10:10.020 --> 10:13.400]  There were 600,000 attendees.
[10:13.920 --> 10:15.420]  Wait, wait, wait, wait, stop, stop.
[10:15.680 --> 10:17.540]  600,000 attendees, did you just say?
[10:18.640 --> 10:20.940]  600,000 attendees at this conference.
[10:21.340 --> 10:24.000]  They have an entire city in Hanover, Germany.
[10:24.800 --> 10:26.140]  A city within a city.
[10:26.320 --> 10:27.360]  It's called Expo City.
[10:28.580 --> 10:30.640]  Is any conference that big ever, anywhere?
[10:30.860 --> 10:31.660]  I've never heard of something.
[10:32.020 --> 10:33.600]  I mean, Dayton Hamvention is huge.
[10:33.600 --> 10:34.880]  That's 50,000 people, right?
[10:35.240 --> 10:35.920]  That's nothing.
[10:36.120 --> 10:42.060]  That's like a fly spec compared to the CBIT conference.
[10:42.460 --> 10:56.360]  Well, if you imagine the Jacob Javits Center, that building of that size, multiply that by 25 buildings with roads and lakes in between them and train stations coming in and out of it.
[10:56.520 --> 10:57.800]  It's incredibly huge.
[10:57.860 --> 10:59.940]  Are you sure you're not counting the population as well?
[11:00.640 --> 11:03.420]  No, this is just for the event alone.
[11:03.420 --> 11:04.780]  600,000 attendees.
[11:05.040 --> 11:06.900]  And there's a lot of interesting technologies there.
[11:07.080 --> 11:08.440]  Do they charge money for this thing?
[11:09.160 --> 11:09.760]  Oh, yeah.
[11:09.980 --> 11:11.680]  Well, Laszlo and I went as journalists.
[11:11.900 --> 11:14.100]  So, of course, there's no charge for that.
[11:14.300 --> 11:14.380]  Okay.
[11:14.440 --> 11:15.460]  Well, there's probably about 10 of those.
[11:15.580 --> 11:19.340]  But as far as the actual attendees, what did it cost to get in?
[11:19.840 --> 11:20.920]  You know, there's a good question.
[11:20.920 --> 11:29.180]  I think just for average individuals to come, I think it was 50 euro.
[11:29.500 --> 11:29.960]  50 euros.
[11:30.160 --> 11:31.240]  Okay, Mike, you're the math person.
[11:31.300 --> 11:35.460]  Can you multiply 50 times 600,000 and find out how much money these guys made?
[11:36.060 --> 11:36.720]  A lot.
[11:37.360 --> 11:37.940]  That's what I thought.
[11:37.980 --> 11:38.960]  I came up with the same answer.
[11:39.480 --> 11:39.880]  Wow.
[11:41.460 --> 11:42.220]  That is something.
[11:42.620 --> 11:45.060]  Well, they did have significantly greater expenses.
[11:45.440 --> 11:46.820]  Yeah, they have to rent 25 cents.
[11:46.820 --> 11:48.300]  I imagine they didn't lose money on it.
[11:48.580 --> 11:48.840]  Uh-huh.
[11:49.540 --> 11:51.240]  No, I would imagine with 300,000...
[11:51.240 --> 11:52.520]  600,000, I'm sorry, attendees.
[11:52.660 --> 11:53.340]  Let's cut the attendees in half.
[11:53.360 --> 11:56.540]  One of the interesting things is there were pavilions from different countries there.
[11:56.960 --> 12:00.580]  And I saw something you'd never see at a conference in the United States.
[12:00.580 --> 12:16.860]  And that was pavilions from countries such as Iran and Jordan and Syria, which I guess are on the list of terrorist nations, U.S.-described terrorist nations.
[12:17.060 --> 12:22.380]  And all these pavilions had interesting technologies they were demonstrating from those countries.
[12:22.560 --> 12:31.940]  I just want to say, you know, if any of our listeners are listening from terrorist countries and you're on the official terrorist list, we will let you into Fifth Hope for free.
[12:33.120 --> 12:33.800]  Well, we will.
[12:34.220 --> 12:34.360]  That's good.
[12:34.820 --> 12:35.920]  The least we can do.
[12:36.000 --> 12:36.960]  We're not endorsing...
[12:36.960 --> 12:43.240]  We're just endorsing the citizens who happen to live in unfortunate terroristic regimes and figure they could use a break.
[12:43.680 --> 12:48.620]  Well, especially a break from having to go through the whole incest system coming into this country.
[12:48.860 --> 12:50.600]  It'll have to be checked every which way.
[12:50.680 --> 12:54.000]  Even Laszlo was scrutinized when he came into the country a few hours ago.
[12:54.000 --> 13:05.940]  So he was pulled aside and put into a room with a bunch of foreigners and asked a bunch of questions, including, oh, why didn't you fly into JFK?
[13:06.040 --> 13:08.020]  Why didn't you fly into Newark instead of JFK?
[13:08.280 --> 13:09.660]  What kind of question is that?
[13:09.960 --> 13:11.800]  Well, that's what Laszlo said.
[13:12.800 --> 13:16.500]  The father, they eventually let him go, but he said he felt really shaken up by the whole experience.
[13:16.940 --> 13:19.780]  And then he said, Bernie, you're the one who's supposed to get stopped by security.
[13:20.080 --> 13:21.440]  How come you weren't?
[13:21.440 --> 13:23.360]  And I was, with my background.
[13:23.600 --> 13:25.280]  I hope he told the security guards that.
[13:26.580 --> 13:29.680]  I hope he told them that you're the suspicious one and they should be talking to you, not him.
[13:29.760 --> 13:31.200]  Well, I hope he didn't say that.
[13:31.340 --> 13:34.000]  But I was stopped leaving Amsterdam today.
[13:34.000 --> 13:35.980]  I had a connecting flight from...
[13:38.560 --> 13:39.560]  Let's see, where were we?
[13:39.600 --> 13:40.300]  We're so many places.
[13:41.120 --> 13:45.960]  We left Copenhagen this morning and flew into Amsterdam and got a connecting flight to Newark.
[13:45.960 --> 13:58.460]  But departing from Amsterdam, they went through my carry-on bag and found my frequency counter, which is an Opto-Electronic Scout, a very good unit that Jeff has as well.
[13:58.580 --> 14:00.860]  And they were very suspicious about this device.
[14:01.020 --> 14:06.240]  And it took them about 10 or 15 minutes to decide that it was not something dangerous.
[14:06.620 --> 14:08.680]  And they turned it on and it started beeping.
[14:08.680 --> 14:11.680]  And that kind of struggled them.
[14:11.920 --> 14:20.280]  And then the guy looking at it put his two-way radio to his lips to call for assistance to help him identify the device.
[14:20.480 --> 14:24.760]  And as soon as he keyed up the microphone on his handheld radio, the frequency counter beeped.
[14:25.100 --> 14:26.340]  You've used my frequency counter.
[14:26.420 --> 14:26.940]  You know what it's like.
[14:27.000 --> 14:30.080]  But it detects something that beeps and shows the flashes and things.
[14:30.160 --> 14:31.920]  And he looked at it twice, like, what's going on?
[14:31.980 --> 14:32.500]  What's going on?
[14:32.700 --> 14:34.320]  You just activated it.
[14:34.320 --> 14:42.280]  And in the process, he inadvertently handed me the frequency that he was using to communicate with his other security people.
[14:42.440 --> 14:44.600]  So that was logged into the frequency counter.
[14:44.740 --> 14:53.160]  And by the way, the Dutch security people are using the frequency of 43.250 megahertz.
[14:54.200 --> 15:06.520]  And after I got back on the... after I explained to them what it was and they were okay with that, I got back in the plane and got my scanner out of my pocket and punched that frequency in and then listened to the Dutch security, you know, scrutinize other people.
[15:06.560 --> 15:08.720]  Of course, it was in Dutch and I couldn't understand what they were saying.
[15:08.840 --> 15:10.300]  But it was... it was still a fun experience.
[15:10.720 --> 15:15.080]  Did you tell the guy that when he turned on his radio that that's what he was doing, was capturing his frequency?
[15:15.200 --> 15:15.380]  Yes.
[15:15.440 --> 15:17.280]  As a matter of fact, he asked what it was.
[15:17.360 --> 15:19.140]  And I told him to use the radio test equipment.
[15:19.400 --> 15:21.560]  And he said, well, how does it work?
[15:21.600 --> 15:23.860]  I said, well, did you hear that beat when you just used your radio?
[15:23.900 --> 15:24.480]  He said, yeah.
[15:24.480 --> 15:31.120]  And I said, well, that frequency there is the transmit frequency that you just transmitted on.
[15:32.380 --> 15:33.960]  And he said, oh?
[15:36.560 --> 15:38.600]  And he didn't mind that you had that information, though.
[15:39.000 --> 15:41.880]  No, he didn't seem to quite comprehend everything.
[15:42.080 --> 15:43.260]  It was just something new to him.
[15:43.600 --> 15:46.420]  But eventually, I think he was just concerned that it wasn't...
[15:46.420 --> 15:49.180]  Because one of these devices looks very much like you'd see a...
[15:49.180 --> 15:51.080]  Like in the movies, you see a bomb.
[15:51.700 --> 15:57.000]  It's usually some black box with a digital display on it and blinking lights and beeps and all that.
[15:57.620 --> 15:59.760]  And, you know, a black box with wires.
[16:00.020 --> 16:04.120]  And, you know, people who watch too many Hollywood movies think that's what a bomb looks like.
[16:04.520 --> 16:07.720]  So, you know, they were just concerned for that reason.
[16:07.720 --> 16:09.920]  But I showed them, you know, what it was and how it worked.
[16:09.920 --> 16:10.980]  And they were okay with it then.
[16:11.140 --> 16:14.840]  I don't know if I would have the same level of understanding in this country.
[16:15.000 --> 16:16.260]  But the Dutch were okay.
[16:16.420 --> 16:18.980]  They're pretty open to technology there.
[16:19.180 --> 16:19.900]  So, that was good.
[16:20.060 --> 16:22.640]  Well, you took that piece of technology out of this country in the first place, didn't you?
[16:22.920 --> 16:23.460]  That's true.
[16:23.460 --> 16:24.420]  And I brought it back.
[16:24.680 --> 16:26.160]  So, there you go.
[16:26.300 --> 16:26.600]  All right.
[16:27.020 --> 16:29.180]  But there were some other interesting things to this conference.
[16:29.780 --> 16:37.000]  One of the things that struck me most was there were an awful lot of people walking around with Bluetooth earpieces in their ears.
[16:37.180 --> 16:42.860]  These are the new wireless communications, spur-range wireless communications.
[16:43.060 --> 16:46.680]  So, there's all these people walking around looking like Lieutenant Uhura from Star Trek.
[16:46.680 --> 16:51.640]  Just this thing sticking out of their ear with no wire, which then communicates with their cell phone.
[16:51.880 --> 17:08.600]  And something that was really intriguing is that there were a lot of demonstrations of new voice-over IP technologies, specifically wireless phones, like Bluetooth and Wi-Fi phones that use voice-over IP.
[17:08.760 --> 17:13.940]  And these just look just like regular cell phones, except that it uses Wi-Fi and voice-over IP.
[17:13.980 --> 17:23.120]  So, you can just take one of these phones to some hotspot and have a voice-over IP conversation with anyone else that has a voice-over IP phone.
[17:23.120 --> 17:24.640]  So, that was kind of interesting.
[17:25.860 --> 17:26.300]  Pretty neat.
[17:26.380 --> 17:29.860]  Is there a website people can find out more about this conference with 600,000 attendees?
[17:30.060 --> 17:31.940]  Go to cbit.de.
[17:32.180 --> 17:36.620]  That's C-E-B as in boy, I-T dot D-E.
[17:36.760 --> 17:38.160]  D-E meaning for Germany.
[17:38.640 --> 17:41.240]  And you will find all kinds of information.
[17:41.240 --> 17:43.800]  The conference is going on in a couple more days.
[17:44.000 --> 17:44.580]  But it's...
[17:44.580 --> 17:46.380]  I don't know if any of our U.S.
[17:46.420 --> 17:47.720]  listeners will be able to get there in time.
[17:47.720 --> 17:49.980]  But it's every year in Hanover, Germany.
[17:50.120 --> 17:53.000]  It's the only place where they can post an event of that size.
[17:53.400 --> 17:54.960]  So, it was quite intriguing.
[17:55.100 --> 17:57.860]  And the Fraunhofer Institute was there with the people that...
[17:57.860 --> 18:02.780]  That non-profit organization in Germany that invented the MP3 technology.
[18:03.080 --> 18:07.780]  They were demonstrating all kinds of interesting new applications of technology.
[18:07.780 --> 18:10.220]  And my favorite one was something that would...
[18:10.220 --> 18:12.980]  They had a camera that would sample your facial expressions.
[18:12.980 --> 18:15.540]  You would sort of read some script.
[18:15.540 --> 18:18.040]  And it would sample your facial expressions and your voice.
[18:18.580 --> 18:20.100]  And then, you could...
[18:20.100 --> 18:25.720]  Using some algorithms, it could sort of emulate your voice and your facial expressions.
[18:25.900 --> 18:26.860]  And basically, make...
[18:26.860 --> 18:28.720]  You could make someone...
[18:28.720 --> 18:34.700]  You could create a video of someone saying something that they never said using their own facial expressions.
[18:34.780 --> 18:36.400]  And they had samples of George W.
[18:36.540 --> 18:37.660]  Bush in a computer.
[18:38.220 --> 18:40.720]  And we were making him say all sorts of interesting things.
[18:40.860 --> 18:41.980]  Like maybe the truth or something?
[18:42.100 --> 18:42.840]  Did he try that?
[18:42.840 --> 18:45.340]  Well, that would be really a stretch to get him to say that.
[18:45.340 --> 18:45.860]  It would be.
[18:46.400 --> 18:48.220]  But there was all kinds of...
[18:48.220 --> 18:52.340]  We spent three days walking all day long looking at everything there.
[18:52.340 --> 18:53.380]  And we still couldn't see it all.
[18:53.460 --> 19:02.740]  So, I recommend anybody who's interested in any aspect of computers, electronics, health communications, if they can make it to the CBIT conference next year, it's well worth it.
[19:02.780 --> 19:05.800]  Because it's just an awesome amount of technology on display.
[19:06.060 --> 19:09.940]  Well, maybe next year we'll get a million people there if we promote it on this show.
[19:09.940 --> 19:14.600]  So, in two years we'll have the entire population of the world converge on Hanover, Germany.
[19:14.880 --> 19:16.220]  Well, entire population of Germany, maybe.
[19:16.520 --> 19:16.640]  Okay.
[19:16.820 --> 19:24.300]  Last night, I joined up with some off-the-hook listeners in Christiania.
[19:24.660 --> 19:26.320]  Oh, Christiania, one of my favorite places.
[19:26.740 --> 19:27.120]  Uh-huh.
[19:28.060 --> 19:30.620]  You mean they actually listen to us in that commune?
[19:31.080 --> 19:31.780]  They do.
[19:32.080 --> 19:32.520]  Wow.
[19:32.520 --> 19:34.380]  So, they could be listening right now.
[19:34.640 --> 19:35.820]  And they probably are.
[19:36.040 --> 19:36.100]  Cool.
[19:36.100 --> 19:38.420]  Because they listen to it every week, they said.
[19:38.580 --> 19:41.020]  It's Andreas and Schroes and Daniel.
[19:41.580 --> 19:53.060]  We had a few beers with them in a nice little hut there in Christiania, which, for our listeners who don't know, is sort of a community that's part of Copenhagen.
[19:53.060 --> 20:06.700]  But back in the 70s, a bunch of just radicals and people who just wanted to live differently decided to take over some old army barracks and quite a bit of land, actually.
[20:07.000 --> 20:12.840]  And they've pretty much managed to put their own community together over the past few decades, and everything works.
[20:12.960 --> 20:19.000]  They have, you know, their own telecommunications and electricity and food and restaurants.
[20:19.000 --> 20:31.020]  And it's not, you know, the government of Christiania, the government of Copenhagen has just sort of taken a hands-off approach until very recently, when last week, 60 people were arrested in a massive raid.
[20:31.200 --> 20:31.600]  You're kidding.
[20:31.960 --> 20:34.320]  And, no, it was a huge raid.
[20:34.760 --> 20:37.460]  One of the taxi cab drivers was telling us about this.
[20:37.540 --> 20:39.720]  And then Christiania people were telling us about this.
[20:39.720 --> 20:41.000]  Andreas told us about it.
[20:41.020 --> 20:54.780]  He said their government is increasingly right-wing and restrictive and oppressive and arrested 60 people who were still in jail for apparently selling mild pharmaceutical products.
[20:55.040 --> 20:55.360]  Hash.
[20:55.600 --> 20:56.240]  They sell hash, right?
[20:56.400 --> 20:56.540]  Yeah.
[20:56.840 --> 20:57.000]  They sell hash.
[20:57.140 --> 20:57.840]  Yeah, we'll put it that way.
[20:57.880 --> 21:00.440]  You walk down the thing and say, you know, everybody's, like, competing with each other.
[21:00.580 --> 21:01.260]  It's like a marketplace.
[21:01.600 --> 21:04.060]  But there are signs everywhere that say, just say no to hard drugs.
[21:04.080 --> 21:04.460]  Of course.
[21:05.760 --> 21:09.840]  And, you know, in fact, they will physically remove anyone from Christianity.
[21:09.840 --> 21:15.180]  I mean, the people who live in Christianity will physically remove anyone who is selling or using hard drugs.
[21:15.420 --> 21:15.860]  Yeah.
[21:16.060 --> 21:16.400]  I mean...
[21:16.400 --> 21:17.620]  It's just a bad thing.
[21:17.940 --> 21:24.900]  It's an interesting mix of two cultures, too, because in Denmark, rules are very important.
[21:25.140 --> 21:25.840]  Rules about everything.
[21:25.960 --> 21:27.100]  You don't cross against the light.
[21:27.280 --> 21:28.940]  People are constantly reminding you to follow the rules.
[21:29.180 --> 21:35.500]  This place obviously doesn't follow the rules, but it comes into play with another Danish custom of tolerance.
[21:35.500 --> 21:39.780]  So they tolerate these people who aren't following the rules, and therefore they get to coexist.
[21:40.480 --> 21:42.080]  So the people are still living there.
[21:42.180 --> 21:43.060]  No one was evicted.
[21:43.200 --> 21:44.000]  Well, the people were arrested.
[21:45.180 --> 21:52.360]  Apparently, a bulldozer came through and put, you know, all those along that area called Pusher Street where there's all those stands, people selling things.
[21:52.660 --> 21:54.820]  A bulldozer came through and mowed them all over.
[21:55.340 --> 21:55.780]  Really?
[21:56.220 --> 21:56.520]  Yes.
[21:56.760 --> 21:59.600]  So those stands or those vendor stands are no longer there.
[21:59.740 --> 22:01.260]  They were mowed over by a bulldozer last week.
[22:01.260 --> 22:05.760]  Well, that's pretty disturbing, because it sounds like the place itself is in danger now.
[22:06.560 --> 22:15.980]  So, but, well, apparently there's some developers who are trying to take control of that property and build high-rise condos along the river.
[22:15.980 --> 22:16.600]  Oh, great.
[22:16.720 --> 22:17.560]  That's just what we need.
[22:18.260 --> 22:19.660]  I'm not quite sure I caught it.
[22:19.840 --> 22:26.660]  So they sell hash, but they don't let people sell anything more worse than that.
[22:26.660 --> 22:29.760]  Yeah, no hard drugs, no cocaine, no heroin, things like that.
[22:29.760 --> 22:33.200]  But, you know, other things are not that big a deal.
[22:33.620 --> 22:34.780]  Mike, you've been there too, haven't you?
[22:35.340 --> 22:35.680]  Yes.
[22:36.240 --> 22:37.340]  It's a fun place, isn't it?
[22:37.480 --> 22:38.620]  It's an interesting place.
[22:38.720 --> 22:38.840]  Yeah.
[22:39.460 --> 22:42.720]  I mean, if you even tried that in this country, it would be destroyed in about five minutes.
[22:42.900 --> 22:43.560]  Well, it's...
[22:44.320 --> 22:52.820]  You can't, by definition, try it, because what makes the place interesting is that it's long-lasting and that it's grown, right?
[22:53.900 --> 23:02.360]  Whereas, you know, any one person selling drugs on the street in New York would be, you know, thrown into Rikers Island for a long, long time.
[23:02.400 --> 23:04.660]  Yeah, I don't want to give the impression that that's the main thing that they do there.
[23:04.760 --> 23:06.500]  I mean, that's just one of the side things.
[23:06.500 --> 23:08.020]  It's a big thing.
[23:08.020 --> 23:09.100]  It's one of the things.
[23:09.220 --> 23:10.020]  They sell many things.
[23:10.180 --> 23:11.300]  It just happens to be one of the things.
[23:11.300 --> 23:13.060]  They sell CDs as well, you know.
[23:13.180 --> 23:14.120]  It's a large community.
[23:14.340 --> 23:14.940]  It's experimental.
[23:15.160 --> 23:20.900]  It's just interesting to see that people have managed to put a working community together that's separate from the Danish government.
[23:21.460 --> 23:27.540]  And they have their own social services in there and their own trash collection and all those sorts of things.
[23:27.620 --> 23:33.280]  And they've all managed to do this on their own as an offshoot of Copenhagen.
[23:33.660 --> 23:36.740]  And that was what I found most intriguing.
[23:38.020 --> 23:39.040]  a community that works.
[23:39.680 --> 23:43.060]  Maybe their electricity distribution works almost as well as Con Ed's.
[23:44.340 --> 23:45.100]  Yeah, I'm not quite sure how they...
[23:45.100 --> 23:46.420]  Are we picking up Con Ed radio?
[23:46.680 --> 23:47.760]  I keep hearing like...
[23:47.760 --> 23:48.540]  You hear Con Ed radio?
[23:48.680 --> 23:49.800]  I'm hearing something.
[23:50.020 --> 23:51.240]  I think Mike hears it too.
[23:51.400 --> 23:52.200]  You're hearing Con Ed radio?
[23:52.400 --> 23:52.960]  I'm hearing something.
[23:53.200 --> 23:53.560]  I'm not hearing anything.
[23:53.580 --> 23:55.800]  Where is Bernie physically located at the moment?
[23:56.020 --> 23:57.600]  Oh, I'm hearing something from the phone.
[23:57.840 --> 23:58.460]  Oh, is that through...
[23:58.460 --> 23:58.640]  Yeah.
[23:59.760 --> 24:06.400]  Bernie is currently heading south on the New Jersey Turnpike in an airport limousine van taking me back to Philadelphia.
[24:06.400 --> 24:08.460]  And that driver has a two-way radio, does he not?
[24:08.780 --> 24:09.140]  And he does.
[24:09.200 --> 24:10.320]  You probably heard that in the background.
[24:10.600 --> 24:11.140]  That's what I'm hearing.
[24:11.160 --> 24:13.140]  It's actually a Nextel phone.
[24:13.680 --> 24:14.360]  Oh, God.
[24:14.440 --> 24:15.660]  Those things are so annoying.
[24:15.940 --> 24:20.500]  But I have one other very important piece of information from CBIT.
[24:20.500 --> 24:26.920]  There was an awful lot of companies that are demonstrating new biometric identification technologies.
[24:28.800 --> 24:36.440]  Fingerprint recognition, iris recognition, facial geometry, all those sorts of things.
[24:36.540 --> 24:40.140]  And a lot of companies are displaying RFID technologies.
[24:40.200 --> 24:45.020]  And a lot of our listeners were interested in RFID chips, that sort of thing.
[24:45.020 --> 24:50.920]  Well, I found a company that was showing off their RFID chip technology.
[24:51.380 --> 25:00.180]  And I was looking at their brochure, and it showed a picture of a nondescript passport with an RFID chip in it.
[25:00.780 --> 25:04.840]  And I said, what countries are using RFID chips in their passports?
[25:05.220 --> 25:15.880]  And he said, well, the woman actually, she said, the government of Thailand is using our RFID chips in their passports now.
[25:15.880 --> 25:17.000]  And I said, what about the U.S.?
[25:17.880 --> 25:20.120]  She said, well, we're in negotiations with the U.S.
[25:20.160 --> 25:25.780]  government now, and we expect to have RFID chips in U.S.
[25:25.840 --> 25:27.080]  passports starting next year.
[25:27.600 --> 25:30.140]  So that's a very scary development in my mind.
[25:30.580 --> 25:34.660]  Yeah, I guess maybe it's a good idea to renew your passport now so you get another eight years without...
[25:35.340 --> 25:36.540]  That's just what I was thinking.
[25:36.760 --> 25:44.680]  So if you get your passport renewed before too far next year, it won't be instantly recognizable just by walking...
[25:44.680 --> 25:51.880]  These things, the way these RFID chips work in the Thai passports, and apparently it will be the similar technology in the U.S.
[25:51.960 --> 26:06.540]  passports, it's a coil of wire that's about two inches by three inches in a rectangle with many, many turns, maybe 50 or so turns of wire in a two-by-three, roughly a two-by-three rectangle.
[26:06.840 --> 26:10.320]  And then there's a little chip that's connected at the two ends of the wire.
[26:10.920 --> 26:18.100]  And energy is imposed onto the coil by radio-emitting devices that emit a digital signal.
[26:18.340 --> 26:27.700]  The chip picks up through this antenna, and there's enough energy induced into the coil for the chip to reflect back its unique identification code.
[26:28.900 --> 26:36.000]  So if you had a passport that had one of these devices in it, as you will if you get a passport in the U.S.
[26:36.040 --> 26:43.200]  next year apparently, if you can just walk past any place that has one of these transponders, and it will know who you are.
[26:43.860 --> 26:47.400]  So I imagine that people will start wanting to wrap their U.S.
[26:47.480 --> 26:49.940]  passports in tinfoil or some other shielding.
[26:50.100 --> 26:53.240]  Bernie, what happens if you play around with that little thing in there?
[26:53.500 --> 26:55.520]  If you start bending it in different directions?
[26:55.740 --> 26:57.580]  Or if you accidentally put it in the microwave.
[26:57.740 --> 26:58.580]  Well, that too, obviously.
[26:58.700 --> 27:04.940]  But I mean, I'm just saying if you access it or either remove it or just, you know, do different things to it, what kind of effect could you have?
[27:04.940 --> 27:06.720]  Well, then you're convicted of passport tampering.
[27:06.900 --> 27:07.920]  Well, obviously that, but...
[27:07.920 --> 27:08.260]  Uh-huh.
[27:08.360 --> 27:08.900]  That's one thing.
[27:08.980 --> 27:11.080]  I'm sure it's a crime to tamper with a passport.
[27:11.420 --> 27:12.800]  But I don't know.
[27:12.900 --> 27:16.040]  I guess if you disable it, they could just say, well, I guess it broke.
[27:17.240 --> 27:25.980]  And I would certainly not try too carefully to avoid damaging the RFID chip in my passport.
[27:26.300 --> 27:27.920]  So you never know.
[27:28.520 --> 27:28.920]  No.
[27:29.000 --> 27:31.960]  Do you know anything about the range of the detectors?
[27:33.040 --> 27:33.720]  They're looking...
[27:33.720 --> 27:42.640]  From what I saw demonstrated, it looked like the range was maybe 10 to 20 feet, depending on how they have the antennas focused on the coil.
[27:43.040 --> 27:43.260]  Uh-huh.
[27:44.080 --> 27:44.380]  Interesting.
[27:44.500 --> 27:45.820]  I tell you, driving is shut up, by the way.
[27:45.940 --> 27:46.540]  It's very annoying.
[27:47.120 --> 27:48.500]  Yeah, well, they have to get their...
[27:48.500 --> 27:50.060]  They have to pick up new passengers on the way.
[27:50.580 --> 27:50.920]  Okay.
[27:51.040 --> 27:52.640]  Let's go over a couple of...
[27:52.640 --> 27:55.200]  Well, Bernie's being driven in first-class style there.
[27:55.880 --> 28:00.540]  Let's go over a couple of news stories that have been hitting the press this week, and then we'll take some phone calls in a little bit.
[28:00.540 --> 28:04.060]  But this is something I think will concern anybody with a cell phone.
[28:04.180 --> 28:06.840]  Do you know that cell phone directory assistance is about to start?
[28:07.200 --> 28:07.480]  Mm-hmm.
[28:07.600 --> 28:08.100]  That's right.
[28:08.220 --> 28:11.420]  This is a story that is not too many places.
[28:11.600 --> 28:14.740]  But basically, this year, they're expecting...
[28:14.740 --> 28:24.200]  The cellular phone industry is expected to launch a wireless directory assistance service that seeks to include more than 70% of the nation's 156 million cellular numbers in a database.
[28:24.220 --> 28:27.060]  That's almost one for every half person, isn't it?
[28:27.680 --> 28:27.980]  Wow.
[28:28.620 --> 28:36.740]  While wireless numbers will not be published in a book, anyone dialing 411 directory assistance on any phone will be able to get almost any wireless number.
[28:37.220 --> 28:39.840]  The so-called directory could be available by the end of the year.
[28:40.100 --> 28:48.200]  The wireless industry is saying that five of the six of the wireless carriers are part of this whole deal.
[28:48.780 --> 28:53.220]  The change would vastly alter a peculiarity of modern communications.
[28:53.220 --> 28:57.740]  Wireless calling may be taking the place of traditional phone service, but its numbers remain a mostly private affair.
[28:58.960 --> 29:01.680]  Many people are within reach at all times through all manner of communication.
[29:01.680 --> 29:04.940]  The search for each other's contact information becomes more and more difficult.
[29:05.080 --> 29:09.280]  As many email addresses and most wireless numbers have gone unlisted and remain largely private.
[29:09.500 --> 29:10.540]  And it turns out...
[29:10.540 --> 29:18.900]  It turns out also that you may have already agreed to be listed in a phone book, regardless of, you know, what you want.
[29:19.920 --> 29:27.800]  Many service agreements include clauses under a section labeled privacy that allow the cellular company to use their name and number in a directory.
[29:28.200 --> 29:33.520]  Some, like T-Mobile's contract, say that the customer may be charged a fee to keep their number unlisted.
[29:33.900 --> 29:38.920]  When a consumer signs his wireless contract, he agrees, in essence, to be included in the directory.
[29:38.920 --> 29:44.280]  So check your contract there, if you didn't throw it out, and you may find you agreed to be part of this.
[29:45.840 --> 29:54.080]  AT&T Wireless's contract also says it could charge a fee for inclusion in directory listings or to be unlisted or unpublished.
[29:54.240 --> 29:56.060]  So they're going to charge you no matter what.
[29:56.540 --> 30:02.260]  Those who wish to remove their consent may notify us in writing, they say, at an address provided in a different section of the contract.
[30:02.540 --> 30:04.820]  And Nextel's contract is similar.
[30:04.820 --> 30:09.900]  Verizon Wireless customers also sign contracts that give the company permission to list their name and number.
[30:10.080 --> 30:14.440]  But Verizon says it will not include its 36 million subscribers in a directory.
[30:14.920 --> 30:21.780]  We take our position very seriously to protect our customers and the use of their service, said John Johnson, a Verizon Wireless spokesman.
[30:21.900 --> 30:25.360]  We think it ought to be left up to the individual customer to have a wireless number published.
[30:25.360 --> 30:28.760]  We have no plans to make our customers' wireless numbers available.
[30:29.480 --> 30:32.040]  But other companies, I guess, are going to be different.
[30:32.560 --> 30:34.480]  I'm fine with this if it's an option.
[30:35.280 --> 30:39.300]  I mean, some people might want their, you know, their wireless numbers to be in the phone book.
[30:39.500 --> 30:45.620]  But what I really don't get is this, I don't understand it with wired phones either, is this non-publication fee.
[30:46.240 --> 30:50.540]  I mean, can you imagine if this concept were, you know, expanded to other areas?
[30:50.540 --> 30:52.720]  Well, Mike, it costs money not to print something.
[30:52.820 --> 30:53.160]  You know that.
[30:53.160 --> 30:55.880]  If you write a book, you have to pay for it to not to be published.
[30:56.060 --> 30:58.760]  I mean, this could revolutionize all kinds of things.
[30:59.500 --> 31:00.080]  Certainly true.
[31:00.200 --> 31:00.640]  Certainly true.
[31:00.840 --> 31:16.400]  And, you know, what's interesting, though, is that there's going to be a period of time, however short it may be, a week, a month, a year, where all kinds of private numbers for senators and, you know, celebrities of all sorts are going to be listed in some directory because they didn't know to unlist themselves.
[31:16.400 --> 31:17.660]  That's going to be a fun period.
[31:18.200 --> 31:26.800]  What's also interesting is that you don't necessarily have to sign a contract that says that you allow your cellular carrier to publish your name and number in a directory.
[31:27.120 --> 31:38.740]  Because what these carriers seem to do, from my experience, is that if you sign your contract, they'll change things in that contract and just send you some fine print thing with your bill saying, oh, we've made all these extra changes.
[31:38.740 --> 31:46.480]  I don't know how many people read those things, but basically the contracts say they're subject to change whenever we feel like it.
[31:48.600 --> 31:49.040]  Okay.
[31:49.120 --> 31:52.240]  Well, that's something to be concerned with if you have a cell phone, check into that.
[31:52.720 --> 32:01.980]  This story, which we missed last week, which I think is pretty interesting, that moved in the Associated Press, an ambitious effort to create a central terrorist suspect database for use by all U.S.
[32:02.040 --> 32:10.460]  federal and local officials has been struggling for months because of challenges as mundane as merging Microsoft spreadsheets and as sensitive as protecting people's privacy.
[32:10.900 --> 32:22.600]  Attorney General John Ashcroft said in September that the terrorist screening center, one-stop shopping so that every federal terrorist screener is working off the same page, will be operational by last December 1st.
[32:23.060 --> 32:23.740]  Wait, wait, wait.
[32:24.020 --> 32:29.240]  There are federal agencies that keep lists of terrorist suspects in Microsoft Excel.
[32:30.100 --> 32:31.160]  Well, yeah, you know.
[32:31.340 --> 32:32.660]  I mean, what else are you going to use?
[32:33.600 --> 32:34.780]  Something open source?
[32:36.020 --> 32:47.640]  Basically, Texas Representative Jim Turner, the top Democrat on the House Homeland Security Committee, is skeptical that this is going to get done in a timely fashion, said the database's completion is way overdue.
[32:47.960 --> 32:52.500]  The critical linchpin of identifying terrorists has yet to be put in place in a functional way, he said.
[32:52.540 --> 32:58.200]  You need a place where local, state, and federal law enforcement personnel can have access real time to a terrorist watch list.
[32:58.320 --> 32:59.740]  Two years is too long.
[33:00.640 --> 33:14.100]  Senator Joe Lieberman, the panel's senior Democrat, criticized the labor-intensive and obviously risk-prone work of checking airplane flight manifests against a dozen current terrorist As was reportedly the case during the Christmas High Alert.
[33:14.260 --> 33:17.000]  Right now, it's still a very cumbersome and time-consuming process.
[33:17.660 --> 33:28.620]  Now, when completed, this database is supposed to show... to allow any government official, from a customs agent at an airport to a state trooper looking for speeders, to check the name of someone they have screened or stopped.
[33:28.620 --> 33:32.560]  If the name is on the watch list, the official can then call a phone number for further information.
[33:33.080 --> 33:34.180]  The outcomes will vary.
[33:34.280 --> 33:36.900]  At a point of entry, the person in question could be turned away.
[33:36.900 --> 33:40.960]  At a traffic stop, the police officer may make a notation of where the person was.
[33:41.460 --> 33:51.120]  For more serious situations, where the check name matches that of a known terrorist, the official may detain the person and wait for a member of the Federal Joint Terrorism Task Force to arrive.
[33:51.460 --> 33:52.840]  How many of them are floating around?
[33:54.320 --> 33:55.180]  Probably a lot.
[33:55.320 --> 34:00.000]  For now, about a dozen databases from nine agencies are being massaged and merged.
[34:00.420 --> 34:02.720]  I guess that's what they call it.
[34:02.720 --> 34:09.080]  But officials are studying whether to use the State Department's tip-off watch list as the basic architecture.
[34:09.320 --> 34:11.700]  You guys know about the tip-off watch list?
[34:12.040 --> 34:13.140]  From the State Department.
[34:13.200 --> 34:13.760]  Let's look into that.
[34:14.300 --> 34:21.600]  FBI Director Robert Mueller has compared combining the information to lining up the colors on a Rubik's Cube.
[34:21.840 --> 34:23.660]  Something he has yet to achieve.
[34:25.360 --> 34:26.520]  He said it, all right?
[34:26.640 --> 34:27.400]  I can't do that.
[34:28.540 --> 34:30.060]  Yeah, but you're not director of the FBI.
[34:30.480 --> 34:31.260]  That's true.
[34:31.260 --> 34:32.660]  Some of the problems are quite mundane.
[34:32.840 --> 34:44.200]  One law enforcement official, speaking on condition of anonymity, so you know it's going to be something good, said a tricky problem is sorting out what is a duplicate and what criteria should be used to develop the list, given all the available information.
[34:44.440 --> 34:47.120]  Why wouldn't you want to be identified saying something like that?
[34:47.220 --> 34:47.820]  That wasn't really...
[34:47.820 --> 34:53.900]  I think once you had the information put together, you could see what's a duplicate by what's next to each other, once you've sorted it.
[34:54.160 --> 34:55.280]  Yeah, yeah, that's true.
[34:56.120 --> 35:03.940]  Well, one issue is that a lot of these people have names that are not traditionally written in the Latin alphabet, so there's multiple spellings.
[35:03.980 --> 35:09.280]  Well, that's something that Elizabeth Rinscoff-Parker, former general counsel for the CIA and NSA, said.
[35:09.740 --> 35:14.880]  She said the methods used by intelligence and law enforcement, who are the main contributors to the database, are different.
[35:15.440 --> 35:21.120]  Intelligence tries to gather as much information as possible, while law enforcement assembles evidence fit for a prosecution.
[35:22.060 --> 35:24.660]  But she says, it's hard to decipher Chinese names.
[35:24.820 --> 35:25.940]  They all sound the same.
[35:28.460 --> 35:29.800]  She said that right here.
[35:29.940 --> 35:30.720]  Look it over yourself.
[35:30.880 --> 35:31.340]  Last line.
[35:33.400 --> 35:35.320]  That's the kind of mentality going into these things.
[35:35.620 --> 35:36.580]  What's from Fox News?
[35:37.040 --> 35:38.240]  Well, no, I should have some of the Associated Press.
[35:38.400 --> 35:41.280]  I just printed it from Fox News because it's the only one that had a printer-friendly version.
[35:42.660 --> 35:44.280]  Okay, let's look at some listener mail.
[35:44.360 --> 35:47.380]  And you can write us, listener mail, OTH at 2600.com.
[35:47.500 --> 35:50.300]  Or you can send us, listener mail, off the hook, care of W...
[35:50.300 --> 35:50.880]  You ready, Jim?
[35:51.120 --> 35:55.380]  Okay, off the hook, care of WBAI, 120 Wall Street, where the lights are out.
[35:56.120 --> 35:57.100]  New York, New York?
[35:57.580 --> 35:59.580]  One, zero, zero, zero, five.
[35:59.760 --> 36:01.140]  Did I mention we're on the 10th floor?
[36:01.720 --> 36:02.280]  Yes, we are.
[36:02.420 --> 36:03.500]  Okay, 10th lights up.
[36:03.680 --> 36:06.340]  Yeah, I don't think the mailman's going to carry all the mail.
[36:06.340 --> 36:07.620]  And the lights are still out, by the way.
[36:07.660 --> 36:13.160]  Our lights are on, but everybody else in the studio is just bumping into each other and cussing and things like that.
[36:13.160 --> 36:14.620]  And the whole building, too, not just us.
[36:14.740 --> 36:15.020]  Yes, Jeff.
[36:15.120 --> 36:18.480]  When you got here, were you able to just come down the street and walk in, or did you have to go around?
[36:18.480 --> 36:20.500]  I had to walk all the way around on the FDR Drive.
[36:20.500 --> 36:25.400]  They made me climb up onto where the traffic was, come down again, and go in the building, sign in.
[36:25.480 --> 36:27.700]  You still have to sign in, even though you can't see what you're signing.
[36:28.280 --> 36:29.580]  And you didn't sign in?
[36:29.800 --> 36:31.580]  Oh, go right back downstairs and sign in.
[36:32.420 --> 36:33.740]  He was very understanding.
[36:33.960 --> 36:34.880]  We have to have our lists.
[36:35.580 --> 36:36.760]  We must keep our lists.
[36:37.120 --> 36:37.660]  Oh, Emmanuel.
[36:37.860 --> 36:38.020]  Yes.
[36:38.380 --> 36:43.440]  Speaking of transportation, Lesley and I had a very interesting experience the other day.
[36:43.440 --> 36:56.700]  We were on a train from Hamburg, Germany, to Copenhagen, and we were told that we would have to get off the train and get onto a ferry, but not in that order.
[36:57.360 --> 36:59.880]  Oh, you took the train from Hamburg to Copenhagen?
[37:00.180 --> 37:00.480]  Yeah.
[37:00.740 --> 37:01.760]  That's a great train, isn't it?
[37:01.760 --> 37:02.900]  It was amazing.
[37:03.200 --> 37:05.980]  This train pulls into the ferry.
[37:06.820 --> 37:09.360]  This three-car train drives into the ferry.
[37:09.500 --> 37:17.600]  The ferry opens up, the mouth opens, the train drives into the boat and drives off and sails off with the train inside the boat.
[37:18.140 --> 37:19.020]  You mean the boat?
[37:19.200 --> 37:19.980]  Yeah, the train inside the boat.
[37:20.020 --> 37:20.340]  You got it right.
[37:20.340 --> 37:20.340]  Okay.
[37:20.900 --> 37:25.460]  And the interesting thing is the train gets there last and leaves first, which is kind of cool.
[37:25.880 --> 37:26.140]  Yeah.
[37:27.140 --> 37:36.600]  And not only that, I don't know if you noticed this, but while, probably because they're speaking Danish and German, you probably didn't notice it, but while you're on the boat, the train calls everybody back.
[37:36.780 --> 37:40.980]  It takes over the PA system of the boat and says, all train passengers, come back because we're going to leave soon.
[37:41.220 --> 37:42.180]  Yeah, we heard that.
[37:42.400 --> 37:42.560]  Yeah.
[37:42.660 --> 37:43.880]  They did in English as well.
[37:44.380 --> 37:45.080]  It's amazing.
[37:45.260 --> 37:47.060]  You know, Penn Station can't get the PA to work at all.
[37:47.060 --> 37:50.140]  The train tracks just come right into the boat.
[37:51.320 --> 37:52.200]  It was amazing.
[37:52.380 --> 38:01.360]  And then as we were getting off, we could see engineers making sure that the tracks were lining up where it meshes between the boat and the ground again.
[38:01.780 --> 38:03.100]  It was awesome.
[38:04.140 --> 38:04.540]  Okay.
[38:04.600 --> 38:07.500]  We have a lot of mail to catch up on.
[38:07.580 --> 38:10.280]  A lot of response to last week's show where we made some phone calls.
[38:12.100 --> 38:17.400]  These guys wrote in the automated recording that you heard halfway through the show that said, We're sorry, your call cannot be completed as dialed.
[38:17.420 --> 38:19.860]  Please check the number and dial again, or call your operator to help you.
[38:19.920 --> 38:20.880]  This is a recording.
[38:21.060 --> 38:22.020]  That's exactly what it said.
[38:22.340 --> 38:26.660]  It's a standard voice reply on Nortel DMS-100 central office switches.
[38:27.660 --> 38:29.940]  This seems to be a specific voice recording for a U.S.
[38:30.020 --> 38:34.720]  phone provider, as the same woman's voice is used on the Bell Canada network, but with a small change.
[38:34.840 --> 38:41.420]  Instead of, or call your operator to help you, the Bell Canada DMS-100 switches say, If you need assistance, dial your operator.
[38:41.860 --> 38:43.100]  How's that for attentativeness?
[38:43.760 --> 38:46.520]  Yeah, that's from El Nerto, Toronto 2600.
[38:46.780 --> 38:47.880]  Thanks very much for writing that in.
[38:47.940 --> 38:53.860]  Another 2600, or another Canadian, the clone writes in from Alberta.
[38:54.440 --> 38:56.420]  The we're sorry, your call cannot be completed as dialed.
[38:56.500 --> 39:10.180]  Recording you heard on the last off the hook used to be used by Telescorp, before it changed its name, Edtel, Edmonton Telephone, and AGT, Alberta Government Telephone, which eventually became Teles, was one of the first and only companies to use that SIP,
[39:10.180 --> 39:14.040]  special information tone, the doo-dee-doo, and that specific recording.
[39:14.320 --> 39:15.000]  Hope this helps.
[39:15.100 --> 39:16.680]  Anyone know of other companies that use that recording?
[39:16.820 --> 39:18.200]  I never found others that do.
[39:18.680 --> 39:21.960]  Well, obviously we did, because we weren't calling Canada.
[39:22.080 --> 39:23.080]  Why were you when we got that recording?
[39:23.080 --> 39:23.720]  How would we know?
[39:24.020 --> 39:24.540]  I don't know.
[39:24.740 --> 39:25.040]  I don't know.
[39:26.980 --> 39:28.340]  Dear Off the Hook, I enjoy your show.
[39:28.420 --> 39:31.220]  I wanted to tell people how they can avoid junk email and telemarketers.
[39:31.800 --> 39:34.380]  Do not sign up for services like free credit reports.
[39:34.380 --> 39:40.180]  Once you give them your Social Security number, they use that to send you junk mail and make phone calls, and I guess track you forever.
[39:40.340 --> 39:45.920]  I don't know how they would make phone calls or send you email or send you junk mail, probably when you give them your address and phone number.
[39:46.960 --> 39:50.720]  Example, if you have good credit, you will be getting spam from banks and credit card companies for your business.
[39:51.120 --> 39:56.800]  Also, if Amtrak asks for ID from you to get a ticket, refuse and ask for a supervisor.
[39:57.040 --> 39:59.840]  I remember about six years ago, I was going from New York City to Washington.
[39:59.840 --> 40:01.060]  I wanted to pay in cash.
[40:01.280 --> 40:03.880]  When the clerk asked to see a driver's license, I asked why.
[40:04.100 --> 40:06.740]  She said, we are just seeing if you are a missing person or a fugitive.
[40:07.660 --> 40:09.840]  I gave the license and she took info from it.
[40:10.020 --> 40:14.720]  About a month later, I was getting junk mail in the mail and telemarketing calls from different travel clubs and the like.
[40:15.300 --> 40:16.500]  That's Jeff from Jackson Heights.
[40:16.720 --> 40:19.000]  Well, Jeff, you know, six years ago, it was a different world.
[40:19.000 --> 40:19.440]  I don't know.
[40:19.700 --> 40:22.880]  You can try refusing, but I'm not sure if that's going to work.
[40:23.000 --> 40:24.420]  I'm going to say that that was coincidence.
[40:24.900 --> 40:26.060]  Speaking of ID...
[40:26.060 --> 40:28.900]  But let me just tell you one little trick to get around the ID thing.
[40:28.900 --> 40:32.600]  If you go to a machine and buy your ticket from the machine, they don't ask for ID.
[40:32.860 --> 40:34.640]  They will ask you to sign your ticket for some reason.
[40:35.380 --> 40:35.860]  I'm sorry?
[40:36.260 --> 40:38.360]  But they know who you are from the credit card at the machine.
[40:38.540 --> 40:40.060]  Well, they know who your credit card says you are.
[40:40.120 --> 40:41.100]  They don't know who you are.
[40:41.280 --> 40:41.460]  Okay.
[40:41.580 --> 40:42.900]  I could have been a stolen credit card.
[40:42.900 --> 40:43.980]  It could have been a stolen credit card.
[40:44.060 --> 40:44.900]  All kinds of possibilities.
[40:45.760 --> 40:51.480]  But, you know, they're not looking for photo ID in that particular situation.
[40:51.540 --> 40:51.840]  Yes, Jim?
[40:52.020 --> 40:57.500]  But the ticket is still linked to your identity when you purchase from the machine with a credit card.
[40:57.640 --> 40:58.020]  That's true.
[40:58.140 --> 40:58.500]  That is true.
[40:58.900 --> 41:08.120]  This leads in nicely to an important case before the Supreme Court, which is covered at a website, www.hiibel.com.
[41:08.440 --> 41:12.280]  Guy in Nevada was arrested, essentially, for not showing ID.
[41:12.500 --> 41:19.360]  There's more to the story, too much to get in now, but it's worth taking a look at if you have any concerns about this in the United States.
[41:19.660 --> 41:22.360]  Dear Off the Hook, here's a little piece of information I thought you might find interesting.
[41:22.360 --> 41:24.440]  I went to my local Books A Thousand.
[41:24.800 --> 41:26.800]  Who wants to guess where Books A Thousand is?
[41:27.600 --> 41:27.960]  Nobody?
[41:28.080 --> 41:28.380]  Midwest.
[41:28.960 --> 41:29.660]  Way west.
[41:29.780 --> 41:30.640]  Bernie, any guess?
[41:31.000 --> 41:31.740]  Never heard of them.
[41:31.820 --> 41:32.080]  All right.
[41:32.160 --> 41:32.840]  They're in Tennessee.
[41:33.360 --> 41:35.760]  It's a bookstore chain in Tennessee, and they carry $2,600.
[41:36.080 --> 41:38.300]  I went in to get the winter issue about three weeks ago.
[41:38.520 --> 41:44.520]  When I approached the cashier with cash, she informed me that the magazine could only be purchased with a credit card.
[41:44.780 --> 41:45.020]  What?
[41:45.980 --> 41:46.880]  That's news to me.
[41:47.080 --> 41:49.200]  I told her I don't even own a credit card.
[41:49.860 --> 41:50.800]  What do you think this is?
[41:50.860 --> 41:51.320]  A train ticket?
[41:52.200 --> 41:55.100]  And I bought many books from there before without conflict.
[41:55.420 --> 41:57.220]  I had another book in my hand and asked about it.
[41:57.220 --> 41:59.920]  She informed me that I could pay cash for that book, but not the magazine.
[42:00.320 --> 42:02.220]  I wound up paying for both with a debit card.
[42:02.960 --> 42:11.340]  While in Alabama, I was telling my brother-in-law, who is also an avid listener of Off the Hook, of this experience, we decided to purchase another issue at his local Books A Thousand.
[42:11.340 --> 42:12.500]  I guess they have him in Alabama, too.
[42:13.500 --> 42:15.040]  First of all, the teller...
[42:15.460 --> 42:16.700]  Maybe they call them tellers down there.
[42:16.780 --> 42:17.000]  I don't know.
[42:17.660 --> 42:21.640]  ...scanned the book, stared at her screen for a moment, and asked what the book was about.
[42:22.700 --> 42:27.440]  She then flipped through the pages a few times while staring back and forth at her screen.
[42:28.000 --> 42:30.140]  She never rang the book up by its barcode.
[42:30.220 --> 42:31.860]  I assume he means $2,600 when he says book.
[42:32.400 --> 42:36.360]  Instead, she manually typed the price and rang it up as a newspaper.
[42:36.660 --> 42:41.460]  Now, the problem with that is, many bookstores, we don't get the credit for the sale when they do things that way.
[42:41.600 --> 42:45.000]  When they don't put in the UPC code, it just goes to some random thing.
[42:45.040 --> 42:51.700]  And some bookstores, like Barnes & Noble for a time, would charge us a fee for that, so we'd actually lose money every time that happened.
[42:52.020 --> 42:53.700]  I just found this to be a bit odd.
[42:53.760 --> 42:56.460]  I was wondering if any other listeners, readers, have had similar experiences.
[42:56.460 --> 43:02.520]  Perhaps his chain of stores should hire logical human creatures instead of empty wastebaskets armed with scanners.
[43:04.020 --> 43:06.660]  Thanks from Daryl for that bit of information.
[43:06.840 --> 43:13.120]  They're obviously in league with some sort of agency that's compiling another terrorist Excel sheet.
[43:13.400 --> 43:14.540]  Oh, maybe so.
[43:14.720 --> 43:15.120]  Maybe so.
[43:15.140 --> 43:17.700]  But, you know, people have to know where to stand up for their rights.
[43:17.840 --> 43:19.900]  And having somebody ask what something is about...
[43:19.900 --> 43:20.680]  I mean, maybe they're curious.
[43:21.100 --> 43:23.780]  You have to also not be too hostile to people just being friendly.
[43:23.780 --> 43:27.500]  But if someone says you can't buy this with cash, that's obviously just wrong.
[43:27.820 --> 43:27.940]  Yeah.
[43:28.940 --> 43:29.300]  All right.
[43:29.420 --> 43:30.800]  Ask to see the manager at that point.
[43:31.020 --> 43:31.180]  Yeah.
[43:31.320 --> 43:38.720]  But the fact that something like this happened at two books a thousand, I guess we need, you know, a fleet of people to go into these stores, wherever they are, and find out if that's true.
[43:38.900 --> 43:40.400]  And, you know, get back to us.
[43:40.480 --> 43:40.980]  Let us know what happens.
[43:41.100 --> 43:43.120]  I have to say that's not a very good name for a bookstore.
[43:43.300 --> 43:43.560]  I mean...
[43:43.560 --> 43:44.140]  Books a thousand?
[43:44.340 --> 43:46.620]  Most bookstores, I think, carry more than a thousand books.
[43:46.880 --> 43:48.060]  Well, maybe it's the cost of them.
[43:48.300 --> 43:50.800]  Well, maybe these are very tiny bookstores.
[43:50.960 --> 43:51.220]  I don't know.
[43:51.220 --> 43:54.120]  The thousand is in quotes, too, every time it's mentioned.
[43:54.260 --> 43:58.320]  I don't know if it's like that regular... on their billboards or whatever.
[43:59.280 --> 43:59.640]  Okay.
[44:00.880 --> 44:02.420]  This person writes in with a follow-up.
[44:02.520 --> 44:07.660]  Perhaps you recall my email where I requested your help in regards to a dial-up charge of over $800.
[44:08.080 --> 44:13.560]  I wrote Verizon and asked him to reconsider these charges since the dial-up number was placed on my computer without my knowledge or approval.
[44:13.660 --> 44:14.960]  This, I think, was the person with the grandkids.
[44:15.920 --> 44:19.420]  After a week of no reply, I called, and they agreed to reduce the bill by 50%.
[44:19.980 --> 44:24.640]  I insisted that the phone number was placed on my computer without my knowledge or approval, and I was not paying for these charges.
[44:24.860 --> 44:27.940]  I was then told I would have to resolve the problem with a supervisor who would call me later.
[44:29.080 --> 44:33.100]  After a week of no reply, I called once again and was told that I had agreed to a 50% reduction.
[44:33.320 --> 44:38.560]  I vehemently objected to this inaccuracy and told them flatly that they could start legal procedures as I was not going to pay.
[44:39.080 --> 44:44.680]  At that point, they agreed to drop all charges, which came out to be a whopping $12.50 when the March charges were included.
[44:44.860 --> 44:48.140]  I want to thank you so much for your help and direction, without which this never would have happened.
[44:48.140 --> 44:51.180]  I'm making a contribution to WBAI as a token of appreciation.
[44:51.860 --> 44:52.880]  Thank you very much.
[44:52.920 --> 44:53.480]  Thank you for that.
[44:53.580 --> 44:59.060]  And if you've ever saved money as a result of things you've heard on this show, consider doing something similar during the next fundraiser.
[45:01.220 --> 45:02.360]  Or take us out to dinner.
[45:02.960 --> 45:03.680]  That would be nice, too.
[45:04.000 --> 45:06.060]  But we do have expensive taste, I should warn people.
[45:06.560 --> 45:07.240]  Well, you do.
[45:07.300 --> 45:07.560]  I don't.
[45:08.620 --> 45:17.740]  Back in January, you had a fundraiser that if you pledged a certain amount, you got a DVD which had all the off-the-hook shows on one DVD, DVD-R.
[45:18.800 --> 45:20.760]  Is it available on the website yet?
[45:21.080 --> 45:23.860]  It will be very soon, probably within the next week.
[45:23.980 --> 45:27.980]  I was just going over some of them myself, testing them out, and they're great.
[45:28.080 --> 45:28.500]  They really are.
[45:28.580 --> 45:31.040]  Every edition of Off the Hook from 1988 to 2003.
[45:31.340 --> 45:34.680]  And if you've pledged for that, you will be getting it soon as well, so don't fret.
[45:35.740 --> 45:37.240]  And that's really kind of a cool thing.
[45:37.440 --> 45:40.420]  And the Freedom Downtime DVDs, almost done, too.
[45:41.400 --> 45:45.800]  Believe me, it's been an incredible project from start to finish, and I'll be so happy when it's over.
[45:47.340 --> 45:56.660]  This person writes in to tell us that the next Wednesday that has a February 29th, when Off the Hook might be on, is 2012.
[45:59.000 --> 46:01.960]  And he hopes that we'll still be kicking Harley from Tennessee.
[46:03.440 --> 46:04.300]  Well, that's good to know.
[46:04.380 --> 46:04.660]  You know what?
[46:04.660 --> 46:06.780]  We had a February 29th show in 2000.
[46:07.340 --> 46:08.420]  Totally forgot about that.
[46:08.800 --> 46:11.000]  So that might be it for a while.
[46:11.000 --> 46:12.740]  But they might move us to another day again.
[46:12.960 --> 46:13.540]  That's interesting.
[46:13.700 --> 46:15.600]  Three February 29ths in a row are Wednesday?
[46:16.480 --> 46:16.820]  No.
[46:17.360 --> 46:17.840]  2000?
[46:18.180 --> 46:18.420]  2000?
[46:18.420 --> 46:19.520]  No, we were on Tuesday then.
[46:20.020 --> 46:20.460]  You're right.
[46:20.520 --> 46:21.220]  You're right.
[46:21.360 --> 46:24.600]  And it's 2012, not 2008, that he wrote in about.
[46:25.360 --> 46:26.100]  But still.
[46:26.420 --> 46:26.840]  Yes.
[46:41.000 --> 46:41.160]  Anniversary.
[46:42.620 --> 46:44.220]  Yes, we have some good times, don't we?
[46:44.780 --> 46:45.680]  We certainly do.
[46:46.780 --> 46:47.740]  Keep up the good news.
[46:48.040 --> 46:55.760]  By the way, the three or four major mobile phone carriers, we call them that here in Australia, as opposed to cell phones, don't charge the cell phone users for incoming calls.
[46:56.260 --> 46:59.380]  I get the impression in New York and the USA generally it's not the case.
[46:59.520 --> 47:01.280]  It isn't the case unless you have some kind of a plan.
[47:01.960 --> 47:06.500]  We at GSM here in Oz can easily switch between carriers just by swapping the SIM card.
[47:07.580 --> 47:09.920]  He also wants to know when we're going to go down to Australia.
[47:10.740 --> 47:12.280]  Well, I guess, you know, we have to do that.
[47:12.520 --> 47:13.560]  Why don't you guys have a conference?
[47:14.320 --> 47:15.340]  Have a bunch of conferences.
[47:15.460 --> 47:17.300]  It's a long flight, yeah, but once you're there, you stay a while.
[47:17.300 --> 47:18.920]  It's like the farthest place away from here, isn't it?
[47:19.320 --> 47:19.960]  Something like that.
[47:19.980 --> 47:20.660]  On this planet, yeah.
[47:21.340 --> 47:22.060]  I've been there.
[47:22.480 --> 47:25.840]  I've stayed for three weeks, and it's the world's best kept secret.
[47:26.100 --> 47:29.440]  The only reason I'm back is because they found me and then got me on the plane.
[47:30.040 --> 47:30.600]  Did you go to Melbourne?
[47:30.720 --> 47:32.160]  That's where this writer is from.
[47:32.340 --> 47:36.160]  No, I was up at the Gold Coast, Sydney, Manly.
[47:36.500 --> 47:37.180]  It was, but...
[47:37.180 --> 47:39.400]  Well, okay, well, you know, maybe we can make a tour of it.
[47:39.540 --> 47:41.760]  If there's a bunch of hacker events going on in Australia, we'd certainly...
[47:41.760 --> 47:43.460]  My sister is about to move there.
[47:43.840 --> 47:45.840]  I'm looking to antagonize her permanently.
[47:45.900 --> 47:47.200]  We can go there and just...
[47:47.200 --> 47:48.820]  Sounds like you already have if she's moving to Australia.
[47:48.860 --> 47:50.440]  Well, no, it's for love.
[47:50.640 --> 47:53.660]  But I figured we could stay on her floor.
[47:54.200 --> 47:55.540]  That would probably do it.
[47:55.700 --> 47:56.960]  I would never have to see her again.
[47:57.000 --> 47:57.600]  That sounds really tempting.
[47:57.860 --> 47:58.000]  Yeah.
[47:58.260 --> 47:59.520]  Okay, well, let's take some phone calls.
[47:59.600 --> 48:01.100]  It's 212-209-2900.
[48:01.260 --> 48:03.600]  Bernie, have you arrived home yet, or are you lost with the limit?
[48:03.600 --> 48:07.840]  No, I'm still going through Philadelphia in a van full of other passengers.
[48:08.100 --> 48:08.540]  Oh, it's a van.
[48:08.580 --> 48:09.800]  I thought it was a stretch, like...
[48:09.800 --> 48:10.760]  No, no, no, no, no, no, no.
[48:10.800 --> 48:12.280]  I don't have extensive taste either.
[48:12.600 --> 48:16.360]  But speaking of Australia, I don't think it would be such a stretch to have, you know, a con down there.
[48:16.400 --> 48:19.100]  There's a lot of interesting things happening down there.
[48:19.140 --> 48:25.600]  I know the people who developed Samba, one of the open source projects, basically writing Windows sharing for Linux.
[48:25.800 --> 48:26.600]  They're down there.
[48:26.600 --> 48:30.520]  I remember when they came to Linux World 2001, they'd made, like...
[48:30.520 --> 48:32.440]  They'd reverse-engineered TiVo down there.
[48:32.540 --> 48:35.220]  They'd put an Ethernet card into it, set up a whole thing to share the video.
[48:35.220 --> 48:37.140]  And all the region-free DVD players in Australia.
[48:37.480 --> 48:38.560]  I mean, it's...
[48:38.560 --> 48:39.440]  There's a lot of stuff.
[48:39.440 --> 48:45.040]  The only thing is, Australia is the same size as this country, approximately, and they only have 5% of our population.
[48:45.460 --> 48:46.360]  I wouldn't mind that.
[48:46.360 --> 48:47.380]  Is it really the same size?
[48:47.540 --> 48:48.020]  Pretty much.
[48:48.080 --> 48:48.320]  Wow.
[48:49.500 --> 48:49.900]  That's...
[48:49.900 --> 48:51.100]  It doesn't look that way on the map.
[48:51.220 --> 48:56.380]  Hopefully, we'll see some Australians coming over to Fifth Help in July, and maybe we can some ideas for something out there.
[48:56.480 --> 48:57.320]  We'd like to do that.
[48:57.480 --> 48:58.600]  We're going to let them in for free, too?
[48:59.220 --> 49:00.340]  They're not a terrorist regime.
[49:00.660 --> 49:02.500]  I know, but they've come a long way.
[49:03.600 --> 49:04.740]  Well, we'll talk about it.
[49:04.800 --> 49:04.980]  All right.
[49:05.200 --> 49:06.460]  212-209-2900.
[49:06.640 --> 49:07.360]  Let's take a phone call.
[49:07.440 --> 49:07.720]  Good evening.
[49:07.820 --> 49:08.260]  You're on the air.
[49:08.660 --> 49:09.320]  Yeah, I'm Bernie.
[49:09.600 --> 49:09.720]  Hi.
[49:09.740 --> 49:11.560]  I have a story to tell for you, Bernie.
[49:11.700 --> 49:12.180]  You and Bernie?
[49:12.260 --> 49:13.500]  And you can tell it at the conference.
[49:13.920 --> 49:14.440]  Good evening.
[49:14.520 --> 49:15.020]  You're on the air.
[49:16.060 --> 49:17.140]  We just have so much time.
[49:17.560 --> 49:17.700]  All right.
[49:17.800 --> 49:18.680]  Even that was more interesting, though.
[49:19.040 --> 49:19.360]  Good evening.
[49:19.460 --> 49:20.180]  You're on the air.
[49:20.440 --> 49:21.180]  How are you doing, Emmanuel?
[49:21.240 --> 49:22.640]  This is Winston Smith calling.
[49:22.840 --> 49:23.500]  Winston Smith?
[49:23.620 --> 49:23.820]  Yes, sir.
[49:24.600 --> 49:25.100]  How are you?
[49:25.360 --> 49:25.880]  Pretty good.
[49:25.960 --> 49:26.220]  Pretty good.
[49:26.280 --> 49:26.540]  What's up?
[49:27.000 --> 49:28.960]  Listen, I have two phone lines in my apartment.
[49:29.120 --> 49:29.780]  Two landlines.
[49:30.360 --> 49:37.520]  One, I hardly, if ever, use it because it's a Sony microcriset answering machine.
[49:37.960 --> 49:40.700]  Hasn't worked in years, so I basically use the other line.
[49:40.820 --> 49:44.460]  But I kept the other line in case I want to hook a modem up to it eventually.
[49:46.340 --> 49:48.480]  I'm with Verizon on that phone line.
[49:48.700 --> 49:51.080]  Actually, I'm both, but they're two separate names.
[49:51.600 --> 49:55.960]  And my phone bill is usually $5, $5-something just for the line charge.
[49:56.300 --> 50:03.080]  I just got a bill just now from AT&T for some $20-something for that same exact phone line.
[50:03.440 --> 50:04.720]  And I have no idea.
[50:04.960 --> 50:06.200]  I didn't change my service.
[50:06.660 --> 50:09.780]  Verizon didn't merge with AT&T as far as I know.
[50:10.380 --> 50:11.760]  What's your long-distance company, do you know?
[50:13.640 --> 50:17.920]  I really don't know because I haven't made any long-distance calls on that one.
[50:17.940 --> 50:18.460]  Probably AT&T.
[50:18.540 --> 50:19.220]  And you know what they do?
[50:19.420 --> 50:20.780]  They did this to me a few years ago.
[50:20.900 --> 50:24.420]  They billed me just for the service, even though I wasn't using it.
[50:24.520 --> 50:27.260]  And they billed me separately from my Bell Atlantic bill.
[50:27.620 --> 50:29.920]  And so I basically challenged them and said, What are you going to do?
[50:29.980 --> 50:30.620]  Cut off my service?
[50:30.700 --> 50:31.600]  I'm not using your service.
[50:31.760 --> 50:31.960]  Yeah.
[50:32.140 --> 50:33.500]  And they just kept sending the bill.
[50:33.560 --> 50:34.960]  And after a while, the bill stopped growing.
[50:34.960 --> 50:37.600]  And then the bill just got turned over to some collection agency.
[50:37.740 --> 50:38.900]  And then that went away.
[50:39.040 --> 50:40.120]  And I haven't heard anything since.
[50:40.340 --> 50:41.420]  Yeah, I'm going to have to deal with that.
[50:41.480 --> 50:43.060]  I guess the best way to do it is to call.
[50:43.060 --> 50:46.920]  I'm going to the back surgery tomorrow, so I'm really not into calling and dealing with them.
[50:47.040 --> 50:52.260]  But do you suggest I just call them and challenge this and say, Listen, I don't know what's going on here.
[50:52.340 --> 50:59.220]  I mean, whenever I have made long-distance calls, and this is years ago, so I don't even remember what long-distance service I have on it.
[50:59.300 --> 51:02.360]  Well, all you have to do is dial 1-700-555-4141.
[51:02.360 --> 51:03.020]  It's a free call.
[51:03.120 --> 51:04.500]  They'll tell you what your long-distance company is.
[51:05.780 --> 51:09.200]  And, you know, for your regional company, 700...
[51:09.720 --> 51:12.920]  I mean, I could also call Verizon and ask them what's going on with it.
[51:12.960 --> 51:15.980]  Yeah, they might not be helpful, though, for something that involves a different company.
[51:16.120 --> 51:16.420]  Okay.
[51:16.620 --> 51:17.780]  Can't swear that they'll be helpful.
[51:17.980 --> 51:18.280]  Okay.
[51:18.480 --> 51:20.120]  But that way, at least you know who your company is.
[51:20.120 --> 51:25.900]  Yeah, I would have loved to talk to you about cellular phones, but I had this just pop up, and I just wanted to hear it.
[51:26.000 --> 51:26.840]  I love you guys' show.
[51:27.300 --> 51:27.900]  Have a good one.
[51:28.640 --> 51:29.560]  Thanks for the surgery.
[51:30.240 --> 51:30.900]  Yeah, good luck.
[51:31.880 --> 51:33.120]  All right, let's take another phone call.
[51:33.120 --> 51:34.600]  So, 212-209-2900.
[51:34.800 --> 51:35.360]  And good evening.
[51:35.440 --> 51:35.840]  You're on the air.
[51:36.180 --> 51:36.960]  Yeah, hi.
[51:37.020 --> 51:37.420]  How are you?
[51:37.620 --> 51:53.800]  I was actually listening today to Clark's testimony, and he said that, I guess, after he, you know, does all his book selling, that he thought the highest priority for security now is information security on the Internet.
[51:54.280 --> 51:55.540]  What do you guys think about that?
[51:55.660 --> 51:57.240]  Or did you hear him say that?
[51:57.440 --> 51:57.720]  I heard that.
[51:57.720 --> 51:58.940]  I heard that a bunch of times.
[51:59.300 --> 51:59.480]  Yeah.
[51:59.480 --> 52:01.120]  And it was a little scary.
[52:01.680 --> 52:01.940]  Yeah.
[52:02.280 --> 52:03.000]  A little bit...
[52:03.000 --> 52:05.440]  Okay, I don't know why we're getting feedback all of a sudden.
[52:06.260 --> 52:07.700]  Should I try to bring it up again?
[52:08.280 --> 52:09.060]  Okay, that's better.
[52:09.220 --> 52:09.600]  Can you hear me?
[52:09.880 --> 52:10.140]  Yes.
[52:10.140 --> 52:10.480]  Okay.
[52:11.040 --> 52:14.840]  Yeah, he said that cyber security, I believe was the word he used.
[52:14.840 --> 52:15.700]  Right, cyber security.
[52:15.860 --> 52:18.440]  Is something that is very important.
[52:19.140 --> 52:23.840]  Well, you know, I'm glad he said that instead of cyber terrorism, you know.
[52:24.340 --> 52:26.300]  But what does he mean by cyber security?
[52:26.440 --> 52:27.560]  What does that mean?
[52:27.700 --> 52:40.020]  I would hope he means keeping sensitive information off the net and not vulnerable like it tends to be, rather than persecuting people for figuring things like that out.
[52:40.140 --> 52:44.780]  I seriously doubt that he knows what he means by cyber security.
[52:44.980 --> 52:48.600]  So for us to know what he means is, you know, kind of a stretch.
[52:49.120 --> 52:49.360]  Right.
[52:49.560 --> 52:56.600]  I hope he doesn't mean like closing down websites and saying like one website is good or another website is bad or something like that.
[52:56.620 --> 52:57.100]  I don't think so.
[52:57.160 --> 52:58.800]  This is a guy who left the Bush administration.
[52:59.100 --> 53:04.340]  So maybe he'll have a more, you know, interesting view as far as a more enlightened view.
[53:04.840 --> 53:05.120]  Yeah.
[53:05.360 --> 53:05.800]  Okay, thanks.
[53:06.000 --> 53:06.480]  Thanks for your call.
[53:07.540 --> 53:08.400]  And good evening.
[53:08.500 --> 53:08.840]  You're on the air.
[53:10.140 --> 53:10.380]  Go ahead.
[53:11.320 --> 53:15.560]  Hey, I just wanted to let you guys know that you do have to pay to have your phone number unlisted.
[53:15.980 --> 53:18.420]  Yes, we know that for regular Verizon.
[53:18.760 --> 53:18.860]  Right.
[53:19.000 --> 53:21.280]  And what was the name of that book you guys were talking about earlier?
[53:22.100 --> 53:23.220]  Which book were we talking about?
[53:23.360 --> 53:25.240]  Well, you had to pay by credit card.
[53:26.020 --> 53:27.340]  Oh, that was the magazine.
[53:27.460 --> 53:27.940]  Oh, the magazine.
[53:28.300 --> 53:29.160]  And books a thousand.
[53:29.160 --> 53:34.180]  Yeah, that's something that's going on down in Tennessee and Alabama, which we're going to look into some more.
[53:34.180 --> 53:39.200]  But believe me, you can buy it with whatever kind of, you know, payment you want.
[53:39.360 --> 53:42.120]  Money, you know, cash or credit card or whatnot.
[53:42.900 --> 53:43.320]  Very good.
[53:43.620 --> 53:44.360]  Thank you very much.
[53:44.480 --> 53:44.700]  All right.
[53:45.100 --> 53:47.440]  Of course, everyone's always concerned that they're going to be put on a list.
[53:47.660 --> 53:51.560]  But, you know, if everybody just challenges that and gets put on the list...
[53:51.560 --> 53:52.300]  Well, I mean, who knows?
[53:52.460 --> 53:57.560]  They had the whole libraries, you know, having certain books that were terrorist material.
[53:57.800 --> 53:59.440]  And they wanted to look through that.
[53:59.440 --> 54:01.640]  So maybe they've decided 2600 is...
[54:01.640 --> 54:03.400]  But people respond to that.
[54:03.460 --> 54:03.980]  And that's the point.
[54:04.100 --> 54:08.420]  If enough people challenge it, it becomes completely meaningless.
[54:09.260 --> 54:09.540]  All right.
[54:09.700 --> 54:11.460]  As someone on the list, it's not that bad.
[54:11.700 --> 54:12.540]  Yeah, it's not that bad.
[54:12.980 --> 54:13.940]  You meet a lot of people.
[54:14.020 --> 54:14.240]  Good evening.
[54:14.320 --> 54:14.680]  You're on the air.
[54:14.860 --> 54:15.920]  Yeah, I have a story.
[54:16.840 --> 54:17.260]  All right.
[54:17.320 --> 54:17.660]  That was...
[54:17.660 --> 54:18.240]  That's enough, Ribble.
[54:18.400 --> 54:18.860]  Good evening.
[54:18.960 --> 54:19.440]  You're on the air.
[54:20.120 --> 54:22.780]  At last, peace and blessings off the hook crew.
[54:23.040 --> 54:24.820]  My brother lived in Australia for a while.
[54:24.900 --> 54:25.400]  He loves it.
[54:25.600 --> 54:25.760]  Yeah.
[54:25.920 --> 54:27.000]  He's a runaway.
[54:27.280 --> 54:35.380]  But anyway, listen, my nephew and his fiancee entered a contest at a radio station up in Westchester.
[54:35.700 --> 54:38.020]  Oh, this is Rashida from the BX, by the way.
[54:38.300 --> 54:38.460]  Okay.
[54:38.660 --> 54:41.680]  And the contest was...
[54:41.680 --> 54:45.460]  I guess they had a couple hundred applicants, and they were of the five finalists.
[54:45.580 --> 54:49.260]  And as of last Tuesday, the way that you win...
[54:49.260 --> 54:51.760]  With the five finalists, they would have to vote through the internet.
[54:52.180 --> 55:00.620]  So when the contest jumps off the 430 voting and is ending today, the couple that's in first place had 600 votes, like, bam.
[55:01.040 --> 55:07.380]  And now all the other four couples, they're in the range of, at this point, from 700 maybe to 300 votes.
[55:07.540 --> 55:09.700]  And this couple has 2,000 votes.
[55:09.700 --> 55:18.580]  So my brother is saying that they probably have some program called Zone Out that you can block because it's supposed to be one vote per family or one vote per computer.
[55:18.580 --> 55:24.660]  So he says they have some kind of program where you can block out the ITC number?
[55:25.460 --> 55:26.240]  IP address?
[55:26.780 --> 55:26.980]  Right.
[55:27.180 --> 55:28.080]  What is the IP address?
[55:28.560 --> 55:33.160]  And then you can just sit at that computer and just hit it with the votes all night long.
[55:33.300 --> 55:39.340]  But it's just so weird that this first place couple is like 1,500 points in front of everybody else.
[55:39.460 --> 55:40.920]  Well, I don't know about 1,500.
[55:41.200 --> 55:45.460]  If they were 2 million ahead, yeah, I would say that there's probably some sort of skullduggery going on.
[55:46.260 --> 55:49.180]  1,500 is doable by somebody hitting a button over and over again.
[55:49.320 --> 55:49.520]  Well, okay.
[55:49.640 --> 55:51.260]  But what she's talking about is that...
[55:51.260 --> 55:51.960]  An email campaign, too.
[55:52.580 --> 55:52.800]  Right.
[55:53.080 --> 55:55.000]  Apparently, it's not an email campaign.
[55:55.020 --> 55:58.220]  It's a click from a site sort of thing.
[55:58.840 --> 56:09.660]  And apparently, she suspects that the radio station has something that essentially once one IP address is voted, that IP address cannot vote again.
[56:10.320 --> 56:12.020]  But, Jim, listen to this.
[56:12.020 --> 56:19.320]  Four people that I know went to enter their first vote and they were told, you've already voted, you cannot vote again.
[56:19.560 --> 56:23.060]  So, those four people that I know couldn't even vote the first time.
[56:23.280 --> 56:25.180]  So, people are calling radio figures.
[56:25.480 --> 56:27.820]  Are they doing it through something like AOL?
[56:29.840 --> 56:31.900]  No, they were just doing it through...
[56:32.540 --> 56:36.120]  It could be a DSL or a cable modem or something like that that shares IPs.
[56:36.240 --> 56:36.940]  That's entirely possible.
[56:37.140 --> 56:38.840]  Listen, we don't have any more time to talk about this.
[56:38.980 --> 56:39.700]  We're out of time, in fact.
[56:39.800 --> 56:40.500]  But thanks for that call.
[56:40.860 --> 56:41.860]  Bernie, did you arrive home?
[56:42.540 --> 56:44.520]  Uh, about half an hour away yet.
[56:44.660 --> 56:45.740]  Okay, well, good luck.
[56:45.960 --> 56:46.400]  Thank you.
[56:46.840 --> 56:48.820]  And, uh, we'll see you, uh, we'll see you again soon.
[56:48.820 --> 56:52.180]  Some of us are going to be at the Icon Convention this, uh, this weekend at Stony Brook.
[56:52.280 --> 56:55.780]  Go to www.iconsf.org for more information on that.
[56:56.260 --> 56:57.720]  Emmanuel Goldstein for Off the Hook and the crew.
[56:58.180 --> 56:58.920]  Have yourselves a good night.
[56:59.340 --> 57:00.060]  See you next week.
[57:00.060 --> 57:07.160]  This is a public service announcement with guitar.
[57:22.250 --> 57:26.490]  You have the rights not to be killed.
[57:29.020 --> 57:31.320]  Murder is a crime.
[57:33.220 --> 57:36.140]  Unless it was done and
[57:51.290 --> 57:52.430]  not what to.
[57:52.430 --> 57:58.970]  You have the rights to food money.
[58:00.430 --> 58:02.450]  Providing a cause.
[58:02.970 --> 58:06.170]  You don't mind a little investigation.
[58:07.840 --> 58:08.410]  Humiliation.
[58:09.590 --> 58:11.790]  And if you cross your fingers.
[58:13.410 --> 58:14.550]  Rehabilitation.
[58:17.330 --> 58:18.970]  Know your rights.
[58:31.540 --> 58:38.440]  The news media reported that President Bush personally approved New York as the site of this year's Republican Convention.
[58:38.740 --> 58:53.100]  On Thursday, March 25th at 7 p.m., the Accountability Campaign and the CUNY Graduate Center present Shock and Awe, a town hall forum on the symbolism and strategy of bringing the GOP Convention to New York City.
[58:53.100 --> 59:14.120]  Some notable New Yorkers, including Sam Waterston, Janine Garofalo, Mark Green, Bill Perkins, Adele Welty, and Arianna Huffington, will reflect on the use of symbolism in political life, appropriate responses to the third anniversary of 9-11, and the broader question of what communities can do when political leaders appropriate issues for their own purposes.
[59:14.480 --> 59:17.700]  That's Thursday, March 25th from 7 to 9 p.m.
[59:17.780 --> 59:22.500]  at the CUNY Graduate Center, 365 Fifth Avenue at 34th Street.
[59:22.500 --> 59:23.900]  Admission is free.
[59:24.140 --> 59:28.280]  For more information, call 212-817-8215.
[59:28.280 --> 59:32.200]  That's 212-817-8215.