[00:00.000 --> 00:11.420]  Free Speech Radio News is produced at Pacifica Station's WBAI in New York, KPFA in Berkeley, and KPFK in Los Angeles, and community radio station WMNF in Tampa, Florida.
[00:11.700 --> 00:14.580]  Our producers are Monica Lopez and Simba Russo.
[00:14.940 --> 00:17.420]  Headlines editors are Randy Zimmerman and Nell Abram.
[00:17.720 --> 00:19.680]  Our DC editor is Mitch Jesserich.
[00:19.880 --> 00:25.640]  Our technical production team is Jade, Paget-Seekins, Pauline Bartalone, Mick Mylan, and Lindsay Benedict.
[00:25.940 --> 00:28.640]  We have help from Eric Klein and Amma Bwadi.
[00:28.640 --> 00:31.640]  Free Speech Radio News is a worker-run collective.
[00:31.640 --> 00:38.100]  To find out more, or for our archives, visit www.fsrn.org.
[00:38.400 --> 00:42.940]  That's www.fsrn.org.
[00:43.020 --> 00:46.500]  And it's one minute after seven o'clock time for Off the Hook.
[00:51.640 --> 00:56.160]  The telephone keeps ringing, so I ripped it off the wall.
[00:57.080 --> 01:01.620]  I cut myself while shaving, now I can't make a call.
[01:02.260 --> 01:04.500]  We couldn't get much worse.
[01:06.890 --> 01:07.230]  We couldn't get much worse.
[01:07.230 --> 01:08.030]  We couldn't get much worse.
[01:08.230 --> 01:09.850]  But we're best expecting worse.
[01:10.470 --> 01:12.410]  I hope that's understood.
[01:12.750 --> 01:13.530]  But we'll be able to...
[01:42.370 --> 01:42.730]  Go!
[01:43.370 --> 01:46.750]  It must be wonderful to live like we do.
[01:47.550 --> 01:50.970]  To help respect all everyone that's been done.
[01:51.830 --> 01:55.130]  To make some lies as mighty as I know, dude.
[01:55.730 --> 01:58.750]  When we go one-to-one, so you're terrified.
[02:44.810 --> 02:49.630]  And a good evening to everybody.
[02:49.630 --> 02:50.830]  The program is Off the Hook.
[02:50.930 --> 02:52.830]  Emmanuel Goldstein here with you for the next hour or so.
[02:52.950 --> 02:57.050]  And this week we have Red Hecht and Mike and Jim all lined up together here in the studio.
[02:57.770 --> 02:58.230]  How you doing?
[02:59.010 --> 02:59.370]  Hello.
[03:00.610 --> 03:00.970]  Hello.
[03:01.550 --> 03:01.850]  Hey.
[03:02.190 --> 03:02.430]  All right.
[03:02.510 --> 03:03.250]  We've heard from all of you now.
[03:04.010 --> 03:05.370]  Bernie is not joining us this week.
[03:06.310 --> 03:06.770]  That's sad.
[03:06.930 --> 03:07.910]  He's sick and miserable.
[03:08.150 --> 03:11.310]  And we'll only be coughing and sneezing on the air.
[03:12.010 --> 03:12.950]  And we don't need that.
[03:13.630 --> 03:15.050]  And Jeff is not here either this week.
[03:15.910 --> 03:16.570]  More sadness.
[03:16.950 --> 03:17.150]  Yeah.
[03:17.370 --> 03:18.670]  Well, but our listeners are here.
[03:18.790 --> 03:19.590]  And at least we hope they are.
[03:20.090 --> 03:25.050]  And we'll be taking phone calls and comments and all kinds of neat things like that.
[03:25.070 --> 03:35.210]  Of course, we have all kinds of news and updates to give people in the world of high technology and ultra security and all kinds of other fun things that are going on in the world.
[03:36.130 --> 03:39.030]  And we bring it to you in a unique way here on WBAI.
[03:40.450 --> 03:43.790]  Hopefully a perspective that you don't see in many other places.
[03:43.910 --> 03:48.270]  Well, actually, I hope you would see it in other places, but you probably don't, which is unfortunate.
[03:49.950 --> 03:55.510]  Mike, you have an update on your legal problems with hosting that controversial site we talked about last week.
[03:55.730 --> 03:56.130]  Yes.
[03:56.990 --> 04:00.170]  Covance abuses animals and censors free speech.
[04:00.370 --> 04:00.750]  Allegedly.
[04:00.950 --> 04:01.230]  Allegedly.
[04:01.230 --> 04:01.570]  Allegedly.
[04:01.670 --> 04:02.830]  Someone could have made up all those pictures.
[04:03.070 --> 04:03.470]  That's true.
[04:03.470 --> 04:03.830]  All right.
[04:03.910 --> 04:06.330]  But they definitely don't want those pictures online.
[04:06.550 --> 04:06.830]  Yes.
[04:07.030 --> 04:08.390]  And you definitely put them online.
[04:08.530 --> 04:09.850]  And they're definitely still online.
[04:10.090 --> 04:10.270]  Uh-huh.
[04:11.650 --> 04:15.730]  My ISP has decided that they are not responsible for enforcing German law.
[04:16.250 --> 04:17.170]  Well, good for them.
[04:17.270 --> 04:17.390]  Yeah.
[04:17.670 --> 04:19.630]  They're not in Germany, so why should they?
[04:19.850 --> 04:20.830]  I think they shouldn't.
[04:21.150 --> 04:25.990]  In fact, you know, it's a very strange law, if you ask me, that, you know, can deem a picture illegal.
[04:26.990 --> 04:27.970]  Well, it's German.
[04:27.970 --> 04:30.230]  If somebody in Germany can give us some update on that.
[04:30.370 --> 04:33.010]  Is it German law or the whole EU has to abide by this now?
[04:33.010 --> 04:34.190]  You know, I'm not really clear.
[04:34.370 --> 04:34.610]  Mm-hmm.
[04:34.730 --> 04:36.330]  But there's definitely Germans involved.
[04:36.490 --> 04:37.250]  And Dutch people.
[04:37.430 --> 04:39.230]  It just doubled since the last time we were on here.
[04:39.710 --> 04:39.790]  Yeah.
[04:39.890 --> 04:42.010]  It's now 25 nations, so it's getting bigger.
[04:42.490 --> 04:42.870]  Getting bigger.
[04:43.210 --> 04:43.510]  All right.
[04:43.570 --> 04:44.090]  So what's the update?
[04:44.670 --> 04:46.910]  The update is that it's still on there.
[04:47.070 --> 04:54.230]  And, I mean, this demonstrates that a lot of places, you know, that have no legal case will send out these letters.
[04:54.630 --> 04:59.370]  And if you just hold firm for a week, you can keep it up there.
[04:59.890 --> 05:03.390]  So, basically, it's that your provider did not cave in.
[05:03.570 --> 05:03.830]  Right.
[05:04.110 --> 05:04.770]  Well, that's good news.
[05:04.910 --> 05:05.490]  That's good news.
[05:05.670 --> 05:09.250]  Other good news is that there's more mirrors than ever before.
[05:09.430 --> 05:11.170]  Probably because of us talking about it.
[05:11.170 --> 05:11.350]  Yep.
[05:11.490 --> 05:12.510]  It definitely adds to it.
[05:12.510 --> 05:17.130]  So, one such mirror is covance.backfire.dk.
[05:18.850 --> 05:19.570]  That's nice.
[05:19.930 --> 05:20.610]  But there's others.
[05:21.250 --> 05:27.390]  It's great how these things always happen when they raise a fuss over something that they really shouldn't be raising a fuss over.
[05:27.570 --> 05:29.610]  All of a sudden, it just makes them look so bad.
[05:30.470 --> 05:31.670]  And it backfires.
[05:31.830 --> 05:31.890]  Yeah.
[05:31.990 --> 05:32.670]  Covance backfires.
[05:32.810 --> 05:33.690]  It makes perfect sense to me.
[05:33.890 --> 05:34.030]  Yeah.
[05:34.190 --> 05:34.410]  Jim?
[05:34.650 --> 05:40.330]  No, I was just going to say, for those news listeners out there, and we know that we're getting them.
[05:40.810 --> 05:42.210]  At least we hope we are.
[05:42.890 --> 05:46.910]  You know, bring them up to speed on exactly what this is and where it can be found.
[05:47.010 --> 05:49.350]  You gave the where it can be found, but what is this now?
[05:49.550 --> 05:50.250]  Covance is?
[05:50.870 --> 05:55.770]  Covance is an American biomedical, or multinational, we should say, biomedical testing corp.
[05:55.790 --> 05:57.190]  We almost visited them over the weekend.
[05:57.510 --> 05:59.410]  Their headquarters is in Princeton, New Jersey.
[05:59.630 --> 06:00.370]  We were in New Jersey.
[06:00.510 --> 06:01.110]  You should have gone.
[06:01.110 --> 06:01.930]  But not in Princeton.
[06:02.150 --> 06:02.270]  No.
[06:02.670 --> 06:03.870]  Actually, we weren't even in Trenton.
[06:04.050 --> 06:04.550]  Do you know this?
[06:04.630 --> 06:05.810]  I'm going to reveal this on the air.
[06:05.970 --> 06:08.610]  The Trenton Computer Festival does not take place in Trenton.
[06:08.790 --> 06:09.130]  Okay?
[06:09.130 --> 06:10.610]  It doesn't take place anywhere near Trenton.
[06:11.010 --> 06:11.670]  Do you know about this, Jim?
[06:11.870 --> 06:12.810]  No, this is shocking.
[06:12.950 --> 06:14.610]  Yeah, it's 31 miles away from Trenton.
[06:14.770 --> 06:19.650]  I got up early in the morning to get there on time on Saturday, and I got there two hours early.
[06:20.030 --> 06:21.510]  Well, because it was closer, obviously.
[06:21.710 --> 06:22.570]  Yeah, it wasn't in Trenton.
[06:22.650 --> 06:24.750]  You'd think the Trenton Computer Festival would be in Trenton, but no.
[06:24.890 --> 06:26.030]  It's in, what was the name of that town?
[06:26.170 --> 06:26.450]  Edison.
[06:26.710 --> 06:26.950]  Edison.
[06:27.290 --> 06:30.810]  But it's called the Raritan Center, which is not in Raritan.
[06:31.150 --> 06:32.570]  The Raritan Center is not in Raritan?
[06:32.570 --> 06:33.170]  No, it's in Edison.
[06:34.090 --> 06:38.350]  Well, I think that might have something to do with the townships and villages and all that kind of thing they have over there.
[06:38.470 --> 06:39.950]  But, you know, it used to be in Trenton.
[06:40.030 --> 06:40.350]  I know that.
[06:40.690 --> 06:46.650]  But I guess they wanted to keep the name and move it without losing all the people.
[06:46.730 --> 06:47.910]  But people would come, you know?
[06:48.470 --> 06:49.690]  They'd just go to a different place.
[06:49.870 --> 06:52.030]  Well, you know, Lunacon is not on the moon either.
[06:52.250 --> 06:58.170]  Imagine living in Trenton and saying, I'm going to go to the Trenton Computer Festival and having to travel to get there.
[06:58.170 --> 07:00.850]  Those people must be beside themselves with anger.
[07:01.210 --> 07:02.730]  That could be bothersome, yeah.
[07:02.970 --> 07:03.850]  All right, I got that off my chest.
[07:03.950 --> 07:05.050]  But Trenton Computer Festival was great.
[07:05.110 --> 07:05.630]  It was a lot of fun.
[07:05.870 --> 07:09.810]  We gave a seminar there, a little talk on various issues of the day.
[07:10.370 --> 07:14.570]  And it was myself, you, Mike, Porchop.
[07:16.250 --> 07:17.070]  Junce was there.
[07:18.050 --> 07:19.310]  And who am I leaving out?
[07:19.530 --> 07:20.730]  Dragorn was there as well.
[07:20.790 --> 07:23.930]  And I realized when we were up there that everyone's name was Mike except me.
[07:24.470 --> 07:25.750]  Four Mikes and one Emanuel.
[07:26.290 --> 07:29.050]  And, of course, that was very popular.
[07:30.690 --> 07:32.150]  So thanks to everybody who showed up there.
[07:32.430 --> 07:34.370]  It's good seeing people, as always.
[07:34.990 --> 07:36.370]  And shopping around the flea market.
[07:36.810 --> 07:38.770]  But, yeah, we almost visited Colvance in Princeton.
[07:39.130 --> 07:44.390]  Colvance, which we might have wanted to visit because they allegedly abuse animals.
[07:44.470 --> 07:48.110]  And they certainly don't want people to know about this.
[07:48.230 --> 08:02.890]  There's a website called Colvance Undercover, which is now being mirrored all across the world, much to the chagrin of this Dutch lawyer called Thomas DeVeert, who is apparently spending his days trying to get it all shut down.
[08:02.990 --> 08:05.110]  You see, I think that lawyer might actually be just a bot.
[08:05.710 --> 08:10.470]  Like a mailer, a major demo type of a thing, sitting on a provider someplace.
[08:10.470 --> 08:15.090]  I would agree with you, but I have seen slightly individualized responses.
[08:15.550 --> 08:15.670]  Oh, really?
[08:15.670 --> 08:19.450]  So maybe the first contact is like a bot, but there is a Thomas there somewhere.
[08:19.730 --> 08:19.910]  Uh-huh.
[08:20.230 --> 08:20.510]  Okay.
[08:21.230 --> 08:23.370]  Well, next time we go over there, maybe we'll have a chat with him.
[08:23.430 --> 08:32.070]  It just goes to prove that, in any case, when a corporation doesn't want something to get out, and it's already out, especially with the Internet now, there's no way to stop it.
[08:32.170 --> 08:34.270]  It happened with DCSS.
[08:34.470 --> 08:37.270]  It happened with pretty much anything that they don't want.
[08:37.270 --> 08:38.070]  It's happening with music.
[08:38.190 --> 08:38.970]  It's happening with software.
[08:38.970 --> 08:40.110]  It's happening with all kinds of things.
[08:40.370 --> 08:41.610]  You know, things do get out.
[08:41.950 --> 08:44.170]  And I guess that brings us to Disney.
[08:44.850 --> 08:45.970]  You guys hear about this?
[08:46.410 --> 08:52.410]  Walt Disney Company is blocking Miramax, of all people, our friends at Miramax, who I have to support this time.
[08:53.190 --> 08:58.850]  They're blocking Miramax from distributing the new documentary by Michael Moore that harshly criticizes President Bush.
[08:59.170 --> 09:02.610]  That's according to both executives at Disney and Miramax.
[09:02.770 --> 09:04.630]  The film is called Fahrenheit 911.
[09:04.750 --> 09:05.730]  What a great title.
[09:06.310 --> 09:07.050]  How did I think of that?
[09:07.050 --> 09:18.870]  It links Mr. Bush and prominent Saudis, including the family of Osama bin Laden, and criticizes Mr. Bush's actions before and after the September 11 terrorist attacks, which is kind of what you would expect from Michael Moore, I would imagine.
[09:19.490 --> 09:34.910]  Disney, which bought Miramax more than a decade ago, has a contractual agreement with the Miramax principles, and those are Bob and Harvey Weinstein, allowing it to prevent the company from distributing films under certain circumstances, like an excessive budget or an NC-17 rating.
[09:35.290 --> 09:38.070]  I don't know why you'd sign an agreement like that, but...
[09:39.110 --> 09:41.550]  Anyway, I imagine that's an excessive budget.
[09:41.550 --> 09:45.350]  Why wouldn't you want to distribute the film if it's already made and it had an excessive budget?
[09:45.390 --> 09:48.790]  I guess you could stop production of the film, but that's not what it says.
[09:49.890 --> 09:56.330]  Executives at Miramax who became principal investors in Mr. Moore's project last spring do not believe that this is one of those cases.
[09:56.330 --> 10:05.190]  People involved in the production of the film said, if a compromise is not reached, these people said the matter would go to mediation, and the other side is said to want to travel that route.
[10:06.910 --> 10:12.930]  Basically, Disney executives indicated they would not budge from their position, forbidding Miramax to be the distributor of the film in North America.
[10:13.550 --> 10:16.530]  Overseas rights have been sold to a number of companies, executives said.
[10:17.590 --> 10:24.750]  We advised both the agent and Miramax in May of 2003 that the film would not be distributed by Miramax, and that decision stands.
[10:26.590 --> 10:34.570]  Well, Mr. Moore's agent, Ari Emanuel, no relation, said Michael Eisner asked him last spring to pull out of the deal with Miramax.
[10:34.770 --> 10:46.050]  He said Mr. Eisner expressed particular concern that it would endanger tax breaks Disney receives for its theme park, hotels, and other ventures in Florida, where Mr. Bush's brother, Jeb, is governor.
[10:46.990 --> 10:49.670]  Michael Eisner asked me not to sell this movie to Harvey Weinstein.
[10:49.670 --> 10:52.250]  That doesn't mean I listen to him, Mr. Emanuel said.
[10:52.250 --> 10:58.690]  He definitely indicated there were tax incentives he was getting for the Disney Corporation, and that's why he didn't want me to sell it to Miramax.
[10:58.770 --> 11:00.970]  He didn't want a Disney company involved.
[11:01.350 --> 11:08.050]  Now, Disney executives denied that accusation, although they said their displeasure over the deal was made clear to Miramax and to Mr. Emanuel.
[11:08.410 --> 11:18.550]  A senior Disney executive elaborated that the company had the right to quash Miramax's distribution of films if it deemed their distribution to be against the interest of the company.
[11:18.550 --> 11:31.170]  The executive said Mr. Moore's film is deemed to be against Disney's interests, not because of the company's business dealings with the government, but because Disney caters to families of all political stripes and believes Mr. Moore's film, which does not have a release date,
[11:31.490 --> 11:32.770]  could alienate many.
[11:33.250 --> 11:35.070]  I just wanted to throw in something.
[11:35.310 --> 11:45.610]  I was doing some research on media bias and all that the other day, and this sort of, the way Disney puts it, it makes it sound like, well, the movie isn't objective enough.
[11:45.610 --> 11:49.750]  It doesn't cater to everyone's, you know, it doesn't show both sides, let's say.
[11:50.730 --> 11:53.250]  And Last Temptation of Christ really did a good job with that, didn't it?
[11:53.290 --> 12:03.630]  And the thing is that what they never questioned, you know, they'll always, anytime it's something that's not the mainstream, not the mainstream thought in the country, they'll say, well, it's not objective.
[12:03.830 --> 12:08.650]  But, you know, if it had been like a movie praising Bush, they wouldn't have said anything.
[12:08.790 --> 12:12.890]  They would have said, oh, that's fine, even if it didn't show the other side of what he's done wrong.
[12:13.730 --> 12:16.550]  So, I mean, for example, there was a...
[12:16.550 --> 12:17.090]  Well, you know, we don't know that.
[12:17.350 --> 12:23.630]  But the thing is, even if they did criticize that film or prevent that from getting out, you know, who are they to be doing this?
[12:23.670 --> 12:27.830]  To be saying that because it's not objective enough for them, that they're going to block its release.
[12:28.530 --> 12:34.590]  I'm just saying that the question of objectivity comes up in cases where it's not something that everyone...
[12:34.590 --> 12:37.170]  I mean, it's not the mainstream thought.
[12:37.470 --> 12:39.290]  So, for example, just one example I want to throw in.
[12:39.290 --> 12:46.590]  And I think back in the early 90s or late 80s, this journalist created a documentary on Eugene Debs, who was a socialist.
[12:47.710 --> 12:52.550]  And when he brought it to TV stations, they said, no, it's not objective enough.
[12:52.770 --> 13:06.130]  But, you know, if he'd brought something saying, you know, this is a documentary about JFK or something, and not even completely ignoring the socialist side of things, you know, just about a capitalist leader, they wouldn't have said anything.
[13:06.310 --> 13:08.050]  They would have, you know, accepted it fine.
[13:08.050 --> 13:09.470]  I mean, you see these all the time on TV.
[13:09.590 --> 13:12.490]  Did you know they actually named a radio station after Eugene Debs in this city?
[13:12.630 --> 13:13.210]  W.E.V.D.
[13:13.530 --> 13:14.690]  was his initials?
[13:14.790 --> 13:15.070]  I didn't know.
[13:15.750 --> 13:17.070]  You couldn't do that today, that's for sure.
[13:17.950 --> 13:19.570]  And, of course, now it's an all-sports station.
[13:21.110 --> 13:24.250]  But, yeah, it's troubling, to say the least.
[13:24.330 --> 13:25.610]  I can't imagine...
[13:26.010 --> 13:27.810]  This is just going to make people want to see it all the more.
[13:27.810 --> 13:28.510]  It's going to be out there.
[13:28.590 --> 13:31.910]  It's already going to be released overseas, so certainly we'll get copies of it.
[13:32.170 --> 13:32.250]  Yeah.
[13:33.910 --> 13:37.710]  Anyway, Mr. Moore said the film describes financial connections between the Bush family and its associates.
[13:37.970 --> 13:40.010]  Prominent Saudi Arabian families go back three decades.
[13:42.250 --> 13:45.430]  Well, I mean, we sold the weapons to them.
[13:45.590 --> 13:46.570]  Well, yeah, let's...
[13:47.250 --> 13:48.890]  Let's not get into what everybody already knows.
[13:49.050 --> 13:49.170]  Yeah.
[13:49.910 --> 13:53.230]  Well, I don't know how many people think about that at this point.
[13:53.370 --> 14:00.430]  But, moving to the other side of the aisle, Al Gore is acquiring one of my favorite cable TV networks, News World International.
[14:00.430 --> 14:01.850]  It's kind of upsetting me a little bit.
[14:03.370 --> 14:06.710]  He basically has bought the network.
[14:06.850 --> 14:08.410]  I've known this was coming for a few weeks, actually.
[14:08.510 --> 14:09.250]  I've heard rumors of it.
[14:09.430 --> 14:13.910]  And they plan to transform the news channel into a channel aimed at young viewers.
[14:14.030 --> 14:21.030]  Now, for those of you who don't know, News World International is pretty much the only place in this country you can get news from foreign sources.
[14:21.210 --> 14:23.710]  They have news from Deutsche Welle.
[14:23.790 --> 14:25.950]  They have news from the CBC and various other places.
[14:27.150 --> 14:34.530]  And it's really going to be very distressing if we lose that because there are so few avenues for people to travel down to see this.
[14:35.290 --> 14:40.090]  They say that the programming will continue to be provided by CBC, so that might be a good thing.
[14:40.110 --> 14:49.690]  But I think we should all put some pressure on this now and say this is something we want to be able to continue to see news from foreign countries because we can't see it anyplace else.
[14:49.730 --> 14:55.390]  And we're sick of Fox and SNBC and CNN and all the clones giving the same opinions.
[14:55.390 --> 14:59.510]  When did four young viewers become a synonym for dumbed down?
[15:00.870 --> 15:02.210]  Because that's clearly what they mean.
[15:02.210 --> 15:03.450]  When MTV went on the air.
[15:03.990 --> 15:06.830]  Because I picked up this newspaper today, Metro.
[15:07.090 --> 15:08.250]  Oh, yeah, that just came out.
[15:08.350 --> 15:09.670]  It started in New York today.
[15:09.670 --> 15:12.770]  It's been around the world for a few years.
[15:12.930 --> 15:13.650]  It's the free paper.
[15:13.790 --> 15:15.930]  It's free and it's worth every penny.
[15:16.130 --> 15:17.350]  Or maybe not.
[15:17.750 --> 15:17.970]  Yeah.
[15:18.490 --> 15:23.010]  But they have this bizarre article written by the international editor.
[15:23.110 --> 15:24.130]  They have many bizarre articles.
[15:24.130 --> 15:32.070]  Well, yes, but one especially bizarre article about how this is news for the global youth market.
[15:32.350 --> 15:37.690]  And apparently that just means that young people are too stupid to read better newspapers.
[15:39.250 --> 15:41.130]  It's the clear implication.
[15:42.250 --> 15:43.110]  Any quotes?
[15:45.030 --> 15:48.550]  There's just people who are in the city and pick up a copy of Metro.
[15:48.850 --> 15:50.530]  On the bottom of page 11...
[15:50.530 --> 15:51.590]  Where can you get besides garbage cans?
[15:52.270 --> 15:55.490]  I mean, I found it right outside my subway station as I was coming here.
[15:55.550 --> 15:56.650]  It's distributed in the subway a lot.
[15:57.650 --> 16:00.610]  In those boxes on the side of the street.
[16:00.810 --> 16:04.670]  There's this bizarre article about two made-up people called Ines and David.
[16:05.090 --> 16:09.790]  Ines lives in Scandinavia somewhere.
[16:10.130 --> 16:11.930]  And David lives in Manhattan.
[16:12.570 --> 16:14.230]  And how they have so much in common.
[16:15.150 --> 16:16.470]  Ines lives in Madrid.
[16:16.710 --> 16:16.870]  Sorry.
[16:16.870 --> 16:20.890]  And it just doesn't make one bit of sense.
[16:21.850 --> 16:22.770]  This article.
[16:23.130 --> 16:23.290]  Okay.
[16:23.930 --> 16:32.010]  I mean, just on the lowest level, the first sentence says that Ines' boyfriend gave her a handbag.
[16:32.010 --> 16:34.890]  And then a few paragraphs later, she's looking for someone.
[16:35.350 --> 16:37.330]  Why is this even worth mentioning, though?
[16:37.470 --> 16:39.110]  People print gibberish every day.
[16:40.070 --> 16:40.670]  Good point.
[16:40.970 --> 16:45.990]  It's just bizarre, the low level of intellect in Ines.
[16:45.990 --> 16:47.270]  I would just like to say...
[16:47.270 --> 16:47.730]  Yet you picked it up.
[16:47.850 --> 16:48.330]  I did.
[16:48.450 --> 16:48.710]  Yeah.
[16:48.890 --> 16:52.030]  I would like to say that here's the warning sign of this newspaper.
[16:52.030 --> 16:54.030]  I was reading over Mike's shoulder and noticed it.
[16:54.750 --> 17:00.070]  You have to be wary of a newspaper that prints the following under a heading that says, Facts About Metro.
[17:00.590 --> 17:09.910]  A thesis from a Swedish professor shows that readers of Metro are more likely to pick up other newspapers, like the New York Times, than non-readers.
[17:11.170 --> 17:15.030]  I mean, when you have to justify your existence, it's a bad sign.
[17:15.030 --> 17:17.750]  As a stepping stone to another newspaper, but...
[17:17.750 --> 17:19.530]  Well, you know, is it causing any harm?
[17:19.990 --> 17:20.450]  No, no.
[17:20.530 --> 17:20.750]  Okay.
[17:20.890 --> 17:21.410]  Trees are dying.
[17:21.490 --> 17:21.970]  Trees are dying.
[17:22.050 --> 17:22.470]  Yeah, that's true.
[17:23.330 --> 17:25.370]  I wonder how they make a profit.
[17:25.770 --> 17:27.490]  I guess advertising pays a lot, huh?
[17:27.510 --> 17:28.090]  Lots of ads.
[17:28.190 --> 17:28.370]  Okay.
[17:28.510 --> 17:28.950]  Well, I'll tell you something.
[17:29.110 --> 17:29.190]  Full color.
[17:29.510 --> 17:29.650]  Yeah.
[17:30.090 --> 17:31.770]  Maybe the Times could be free one day.
[17:31.810 --> 17:32.450]  That would be kind of nice.
[17:32.590 --> 17:34.030]  Although, it's gotten way too big.
[17:35.370 --> 17:35.690]  Okay.
[17:36.070 --> 17:40.270]  We have a computer problem, which I'm sure a lot of people are aware of.
[17:40.350 --> 17:42.450]  And that's a nice little worm.
[17:43.070 --> 17:43.770]  You heard about this?
[17:45.030 --> 17:45.990]  It's spreading all over the place.
[17:46.190 --> 17:47.130]  Nobody here affected?
[17:47.330 --> 17:48.110]  We're all too good for this?
[17:48.710 --> 17:50.270]  We're filtering it on the borders.
[17:50.770 --> 17:50.810]  Yeah.
[17:50.890 --> 17:51.850]  Everyone's filtering.
[17:52.050 --> 17:52.990]  Everyone's got firewalls up.
[17:53.170 --> 18:00.950]  It's infecting hundreds of thousands of computers over the weekend and throughout Monday, disrupting corporate networks, causing headaches for home PC users.
[18:01.790 --> 18:04.130]  It's, again, called the Sasser Worm.
[18:04.270 --> 18:05.290]  It was unleashed on Friday.
[18:05.610 --> 18:08.330]  It spread first in Asia and Europe before hitting the United States.
[18:08.330 --> 18:14.710]  There was a lot of talk about this on BBC over the weekend and finally hit the American media around Monday.
[18:16.030 --> 18:20.550]  The worm causes a computer or network to crash continually without necessarily doing permanent damage.
[18:21.010 --> 18:28.450]  It spreads by automatically scanning Internet addresses in an infected computer and looking for a vulnerable PC to infect, requiring no interaction by the user.
[18:31.930 --> 18:32.450]  Basically,
[18:36.230 --> 18:40.890]  they say four different strains of the worm had affected 500,000 computers as of yesterday.
[18:41.750 --> 18:44.710]  That's according to the SANS Internet Storm Center.
[18:44.870 --> 18:45.970]  I don't believe this.
[18:46.430 --> 18:47.930]  We have a storm center now for the Internet.
[18:49.150 --> 18:51.270]  By yesterday afternoon, the outbreak had leveled off.
[18:51.370 --> 18:53.970]  PC users appeared to be eradicating it.
[18:54.190 --> 18:55.290]  Life goes on.
[18:56.850 --> 19:06.210]  Okay, and the author of the Netski Worm, which was first unleashed in February in issuing a new version of Netski over the weekend, claimed responsibility for Sasser as well.
[19:07.310 --> 19:09.390]  Why did I claim responsibility in the original code?
[19:09.470 --> 19:12.110]  That's what I'd like to know, but very interesting.
[19:13.250 --> 19:15.430]  Worms just keep coming out and hackers keep getting blamed.
[19:17.090 --> 19:17.630]  What else?
[19:17.690 --> 19:22.930]  A computer glitch kept Atlanta-bound Delta Airlines flights on the ground for about six and a half hours on Saturday.
[19:22.930 --> 19:27.010]  The problem was fixed Saturday night, but the carrier said it was still experiencing delays.
[19:27.510 --> 19:33.450]  Delta spokeswoman Liza Caceres said Saturday night the nation's third largest airline didn't know how many flights had been affected.
[19:33.970 --> 19:35.790]  The problem arose at about 3 p.m.
[19:36.010 --> 19:36.510]  Eastern time.
[19:36.650 --> 19:39.790]  Flights that were in the air at the time were allowed to land in Atlanta.
[19:40.450 --> 19:44.410]  They didn't provide any details of the computer problem, but said this is not a safety or security issue.
[19:44.550 --> 19:51.650]  How is it not a safety or security issue when your computers go out and you can't do certain things that you're supposed to be able to do?
[19:51.650 --> 19:53.390]  Not safety-related in any way, though, saying no.
[19:54.650 --> 19:57.130]  But flights weren't allowed to go to Atlanta for a while.
[19:58.150 --> 20:01.390]  Okay, and what else is going on?
[20:01.450 --> 20:03.910]  Speaking of airports, this is actually a story from a few weeks ago.
[20:04.570 --> 20:07.550]  I think, Mike, you might have handed this one in.
[20:07.610 --> 20:18.010]  A routine security check at Miami International Airport turned into a diplomatic incident when the unhappy subjects of the baggage search turned out to be the heir to the Spanish throne and his fiancée.
[20:18.710 --> 20:27.450]  The heir crowned Prince Philippe and his entourage were connecting onto a commercial airliner in Miami after arriving for the Bahamas aboard a chartered jet.
[20:27.590 --> 20:33.790]  But before boarding an Iberia Airlines flight to Madrid on Thursday, the prince, his fiancée, and the rest of the party had to pass through a security check.
[20:33.990 --> 20:37.130]  The prince and his bodyguard felt they should not be subjected to the screening.
[20:37.830 --> 20:41.010]  But, uh, this is according to a spokesman for TSA.
[20:41.310 --> 20:44.850]  If they do not have an escort from the State Department or the Secret Service, it's required.
[20:44.870 --> 20:45.690]  It's the law.
[20:46.450 --> 20:52.770]  Um, but, uh, Miami-Dade County's mayor later sent the royal family a letter of apology about what he called a lamentable situation.
[20:52.950 --> 20:56.750]  You know, I'm all for putting everybody through the same amount of inconvenience.
[20:56.910 --> 20:58.310]  So what if you're from the royal family?
[20:58.390 --> 20:59.570]  So what if you're from the White House?
[20:59.650 --> 21:01.870]  So what if you're from the TSA or the airlines themselves?
[21:02.350 --> 21:06.590]  Everybody should be experiencing the same thing because security can be breached at any level.
[21:06.590 --> 21:09.570]  How do we know that, uh, Prince Felipe is not a terrorist?
[21:09.790 --> 21:10.510]  We don't know that.
[21:10.790 --> 21:11.230]  We don't.
[21:11.310 --> 21:13.230]  And some of these comments he's making are mighty suspicious.
[21:13.730 --> 21:14.390]  I'm offended.
[21:14.610 --> 21:15.890]  They seem almost critical of the government.
[21:16.390 --> 21:18.490]  And that kind of thing is a red flag right there.
[21:19.030 --> 21:19.290]  Yeah.
[21:20.310 --> 21:21.630]  He should have been in New Carrollton.
[21:22.250 --> 21:23.070]  You heard about that?
[21:23.070 --> 21:23.870]  Yeah, they just started that.
[21:23.950 --> 21:24.810]  I think I have something on this.
[21:24.870 --> 21:28.150]  Yes, uh, new security technology at rail stations.
[21:28.810 --> 21:30.890]  Yeah, New Carrollton is near Washington, D.C.
[21:31.130 --> 21:34.050]  It's, uh, it's, uh, the closest train station, I believe, to Annapolis.
[21:34.050 --> 21:37.270]  I used to go through there, I had a long distance relationship some years ago with somebody.
[21:37.490 --> 21:45.290]  It's a relatively small station, and they picked it because only approximately 720 people per day use Amtrak there.
[21:45.450 --> 21:47.430]  I can never figure out the purpose of that station, though.
[21:47.550 --> 21:50.770]  I mean, Amtrak always stops there, but, as you said, so few people use it.
[21:51.050 --> 21:55.170]  Well, it, it seemed more when I was doing this 10, 15 years ago.
[21:55.170 --> 22:02.830]  But anyway, uh, and the tracks are located above the concourse, which is relatively large and wide open.
[22:02.990 --> 22:12.950]  In other words, it's a rectangular box with, uh, a few discrete entryways and a few staircases up to the, uh, to the open air train platforms.
[22:13.350 --> 22:16.690]  And so they have little, uh, air sniffing devices there.
[22:17.070 --> 22:18.330]  Do you have more in print?
[22:19.050 --> 22:21.170]  I, I do have a little bit, um...
[22:21.170 --> 22:22.930]  Yeah, they have, uh, devices that will...
[22:22.930 --> 22:23.790]  Puffer machine, they call it.
[22:23.890 --> 22:24.090]  Right.
[22:24.250 --> 22:30.070]  It will blow air at you as you, uh, stand in a semi-enclosed, uh, piece of machinery.
[22:30.830 --> 22:37.090]  And it will sniff for, uh, explosives, gunpowder, C4, probably nitrates.
[22:37.330 --> 22:38.730]  Uh, that tends to be popular.
[22:38.930 --> 22:41.170]  It tends to be a good, uh, a good call.
[22:41.470 --> 22:41.650]  Mm-hmm.
[22:41.770 --> 22:44.030]  Now, uh, I believe Bernie S asked this question earlier.
[22:44.030 --> 22:46.930]  What if you walk onto the train with a, you know, bag full of fertilizer?
[22:46.930 --> 22:47.750]  What happens then?
[22:47.990 --> 22:49.330]  That's a fascinating thought.
[22:51.170 --> 22:52.130]  It's going through there, right?
[22:52.130 --> 22:53.030]  Okay, so anybody in the D.C.
[22:53.170 --> 22:58.430]  area, go out, buy a bag of fertilizer, go to New Carrollton train station, and take a trip back down to Washington, D.C.
[22:58.470 --> 22:59.290]  or something, see what happens.
[22:59.350 --> 23:01.710]  It might be a, a day's full, you know, worth of activities.
[23:02.030 --> 23:04.070]  You know, what if you spend all day in a garden, you know?
[23:04.250 --> 23:05.950]  Well, we don't know if that actually triggers it.
[23:05.990 --> 23:21.290]  The interesting thing is that, uh, uh, if you're there too late, and the train is about to pull in or pull out, uh, they, uh, will have the, the security people, the TSA people or whoever is running this, I'm not sure exactly who, wave you by.
[23:21.290 --> 23:25.930]  So all you have to do is be a late-arriving terrorist and, uh, get your stuff on the train.
[23:25.930 --> 23:35.330]  Well, they said very, very emphatically that this will never be, uh, a case where people are asked to, like, you know, um, take things out of their pockets or take their shoes off or things like that.
[23:35.330 --> 23:37.910]  And I just wonder how long they're going to keep that promise, you know?
[23:37.990 --> 23:41.770]  I'll bet the situation's coming real soon where we're expected to do that almost everywhere.
[23:41.950 --> 23:52.550]  On one of the network news channels yesterday, they were saying that, uh, they, they don't do that, um, at this site because you can't hijack the train and drive it into a building.
[23:53.430 --> 23:54.350]  Well, yeah, you can.
[23:54.530 --> 23:57.350]  I mean, taking a Pelham 123, it kind of proved that, didn't it?
[23:57.490 --> 23:59.390]  Well, yeah, but they didn't get it off the rails.
[23:59.870 --> 24:01.490]  If you go fast enough, well, never mind.
[24:01.590 --> 24:02.990]  There's all kinds of things you could do to a train.
[24:02.990 --> 24:05.750]  And you could get control of it and all kinds of horrible things.
[24:05.830 --> 24:06.250]  But never mind.
[24:06.410 --> 24:12.810]  It's just, it's a, it's a silly thing because, you know, you can, you can cause mayhem in any part of society.
[24:13.290 --> 24:16.270]  In buildings, in buses, in cars, in trucks, you know?
[24:16.690 --> 24:21.810]  Um, you know, the solution, I don't think, is, is to, uh, is to lock everything down like this.
[24:21.930 --> 24:24.070]  Cars and trucks, of course, inherently cause mayhem.
[24:24.210 --> 24:24.490]  Well, yeah.
[24:24.490 --> 24:25.410]  Just by their very existence.
[24:25.630 --> 24:26.610]  Different, different ways, too.
[24:27.370 --> 24:31.990]  Um, anyway, it's a 30-day, 30-day pilot program, so we'll see how it goes.
[24:31.990 --> 24:35.010]  You don't really think they're going to return all these huffing machines at the end.
[24:35.110 --> 24:38.910]  Even if they deem the program a failure and not by any more, they're going to stay in New Carrollton.
[24:39.410 --> 24:40.650]  Not huffing, puffing.
[24:41.050 --> 24:41.410]  Puffing?
[24:41.490 --> 24:42.030]  Puffing machines.
[24:42.170 --> 24:44.130]  Huffing and puffing and blowing the house down, right?
[24:44.130 --> 24:45.410]  Puffing machines aren't out yet.
[24:45.530 --> 24:46.590]  They're, they're due out next year.
[24:46.790 --> 24:49.170]  No, the huff, huffing machines are like, well, they're right.
[24:50.090 --> 24:51.910]  So, um, let's see.
[24:51.950 --> 24:54.170]  Let's take some, uh, listener mail now.
[24:54.290 --> 24:57.730]  We can write to us, uh, O-T-H at 2600 dot com.
[24:57.870 --> 25:00.230]  Should we give out the, uh, the paper mail address?
[25:00.230 --> 25:01.550]  People still write paper letters?
[25:01.670 --> 25:02.890]  We don't see very many of those.
[25:03.190 --> 25:05.590]  Well, we see them once in a while.
[25:05.790 --> 25:06.390]  We'd like to see more.
[25:06.590 --> 25:09.330]  So, if you have something to send us in the mail, you know, a letter or something.
[25:09.330 --> 25:10.530]  And it's not white and powdery.
[25:10.650 --> 25:10.850]  Yeah.
[25:11.230 --> 25:12.090]  Send us a photo.
[25:12.350 --> 25:12.830]  Yeah, definitely.
[25:13.430 --> 25:17.970]  Uh, so the email address, for those of you who can't do that or won't do that, O-T-H at 2600 dot com.
[25:17.970 --> 25:25.150]  But the real address, the real physical address, off the hook here of WBAI, 120 Wall Street, New York.
[25:25.490 --> 25:28.210]  I'm sorry, 120 Wall Street, 10th floor, New York, New York.
[25:28.790 --> 25:30.790]  1-0-0-0-5.
[25:31.750 --> 25:32.330]  That's right.
[25:32.690 --> 25:32.990]  Thank you.
[25:33.850 --> 25:34.190]  Okay.
[25:34.410 --> 25:37.930]  And that's, uh, let's read some of those letters now that were sent in to us.
[25:38.210 --> 25:40.910]  Um, this person writes in with a question.
[25:40.910 --> 25:47.310]  I was browsing the web the other day and stumbled upon the following page, team2600.accesscar.org.
[25:47.830 --> 25:53.130]  According to their About page, Team 2600 is a Macintosh-based underground software group established in early 1996.
[25:53.810 --> 25:56.350]  I looked around the site and didn't find much more info about the team name.
[25:56.350 --> 26:00.810]  I was just wondering if this page and group of people had any relationship with 2600 and the people who run it.
[26:00.870 --> 26:01.330]  Signed, Colin.
[26:01.630 --> 26:14.690]  Well, Colin, we're kind of, uh, lax with our name as far as, uh, if people do things that are genuinely cool as far as, uh, you know, working with computers and trying to educate people, uh, the name can be, uh, can be used in that way.
[26:15.010 --> 26:19.450]  Uh, if, however, it's abused and used for bad things, then we'll definitely take an interest in that.
[26:19.510 --> 26:22.170]  I don't see any evidence here that, uh, it's being used in a bad way.
[26:22.190 --> 26:24.290]  So people can call themselves Team 2600 or whatever.
[26:24.690 --> 26:31.390]  The only people that, uh, you know, there are people who say, uh, it's got nothing to do with 2600 magazine, and, uh, you know, it's a complete coincidence.
[26:31.650 --> 26:45.590]  And let me tell you, the only people who can rightfully claim that are people affiliated with Atari 2600s because, um, that's, uh, it's, it's, it's definitely coming off of the culture, whether it be through the meetings, whether it be through the magazine,
[26:45.810 --> 26:50.490]  whether it be through the radio, 2600 has got something to do with the hacker culture.
[26:51.350 --> 26:55.730]  2600 is a registered trademark of 2600 Enterprises, Inc., all rights reserved.
[26:55.970 --> 26:56.530]  Thank you, Mike.
[26:57.430 --> 26:58.710]  So any other questions about that?
[26:58.830 --> 27:00.770]  Yeah, 2600 meetings are a perfect example of that.
[27:00.930 --> 27:03.490]  You know, we have, um, meetings all throughout the world.
[27:03.570 --> 27:04.770]  In fact, there's one coming up this Friday.
[27:05.770 --> 27:06.670]  You don't say.
[27:06.850 --> 27:09.410]  Yeah, they all pretty much, uh, are, are similar.
[27:09.690 --> 27:10.750]  They have similar ideology.
[27:10.970 --> 27:12.230]  They all carry the name 2600.
[27:12.570 --> 27:16.090]  But we do not, uh, know everybody, obviously.
[27:16.090 --> 27:18.990]  We don't, uh, have staff at every one of these meetings.
[27:19.610 --> 27:22.550]  And, uh, we don't dictate what is said and discussed.
[27:22.550 --> 27:32.810]  But, uh, we have an overall guideline that, uh, people should be open, people should be, um, um, you know, non-criminal, that kind of thing.
[27:32.810 --> 27:35.610]  So I think that's what we've, uh, held up over the, uh, over the years.
[27:36.170 --> 27:37.830]  Um, okay, with another letter here.
[27:38.030 --> 27:46.810]  I was, um, browsing through the whitehouse.gov's robots.txt file, which you can obtain at www.whitehouse.gov slash robots.txt.
[27:46.810 --> 27:50.530]  Uh, grep revealed 823 references to Iraq.
[27:50.530 --> 27:53.050]  Uh, here's some of the more interesting directories.
[27:53.190 --> 27:56.530]  Uh, slash 911 slash patriotism slash Iraq.
[27:56.910 --> 28:00.010]  Uh, slash response slash diplomatic slash Iraq.
[28:00.590 --> 28:05.530]  Um, slash president slash tball01 slash Iraq.
[28:06.450 --> 28:10.150]  Slash homeland slash states slash Iraq.
[28:10.150 --> 28:12.370]  As if Iraq is a state.
[28:13.210 --> 28:13.410]  Okay.
[28:13.870 --> 28:16.050]  Uh, slash history slash tours slash Iraq.
[28:16.390 --> 28:19.510]  Uh, slash goodbye slash Iraq.
[28:21.030 --> 28:22.010]  Oh, my goodness.
[28:22.110 --> 28:23.450]  That's, uh, sent to us from Carnivore.
[28:23.590 --> 28:24.830]  And, Mike, maybe you could explain to us.
[28:24.910 --> 28:26.670]  What is this robots.txt mumbo-jumbo?
[28:27.430 --> 28:28.670]  Yes, I could explain.
[28:29.430 --> 28:30.390]  I could, too.
[28:30.670 --> 28:43.410]  Uh, a robots.txt file is a, uh, set of instructions that web spiders, which are programs that, that go and try and download entire websites for, uh, search engines or, or other purposes.
[28:43.750 --> 28:53.450]  So, this robots.txt file is a set of instructions to such spiders, uh, not to visit certain parts of the website.
[28:53.990 --> 28:56.150]  Uh, so all those, you are...
[28:56.150 --> 28:59.970]  So, they name parts of the website they don't want you to see, and that tells you that they exist.
[29:00.370 --> 29:05.150]  Well, except if they don't exist, as is the case for most of the sites you just read.
[29:06.110 --> 29:06.830]  How do you know they don't exist?
[29:07.050 --> 29:22.570]  Um, because we, we did some research into this, uh, some months ago, uh, and it turns out that they just basically took the name of every directory on their site, uh, appended Iraq to it, and put that in their robots.txt file, whether or not it exists.
[29:22.850 --> 29:23.650]  Why would they do that?
[29:23.810 --> 29:25.610]  Because they're the White House, and they're insane.
[29:26.230 --> 29:26.510]  Okay.
[29:26.910 --> 29:28.010]  Well, that's fascinating.
[29:28.130 --> 29:32.870]  Just in case any new information on Iraq happened to pile up in any one of those.
[29:33.010 --> 29:33.890]  And they don't want that to get out.
[29:33.950 --> 29:34.510]  Right, exactly.
[29:35.410 --> 29:35.830]  Fascinating.
[29:36.110 --> 29:37.150]  Uh, here's another letter.
[29:37.350 --> 29:41.050]  Uh, during tonight's show, I experimented with the streaming internet connection and my shortwave radio.
[29:41.630 --> 29:44.330]  When the show first started, there was about a one-second delay.
[29:44.690 --> 29:48.670]  Uh, sorry, we are simulcast on, uh, WVCQ, which is, uh, what was the frequency again?
[29:48.850 --> 29:49.310]  Anybody have it?
[29:50.110 --> 29:51.430]  Okay, we all forgot the frequency.
[29:51.430 --> 29:51.710]  4,50?
[29:51.730 --> 29:53.010]  It's in the 7,000...
[29:53.010 --> 29:53.710]  76,50?
[29:54.010 --> 29:55.870]  7, 415 or 7...
[29:55.870 --> 29:56.910]  I don't know, something up there.
[29:57.110 --> 29:58.910]  If you're listening to Shortwave, you can see it for yourself.
[29:59.070 --> 29:59.930]  Maybe call us and tell us.
[30:00.490 --> 30:02.650]  Uh, when the show first started, there was about a one-second delay.
[30:02.790 --> 30:04.390]  It was very close to being perfectly synced up.
[30:04.870 --> 30:08.970]  Uh, halfway through the show, I disconnected from the stream and connected back about 20 seconds later.
[30:09.030 --> 30:10.850]  At that point, there was about a four-minute delay.
[30:11.110 --> 30:16.730]  This would lead me to believe that it is definitely connected to the amount of users logged onto the streaming media server.
[30:17.950 --> 30:23.230]  Um, it seems the Bush administration is pushing the FCC hard to get the BPL technology out the door.
[30:23.410 --> 30:26.870]  This is highly disheartening to me, as I am an amateur radio operator.
[30:27.270 --> 30:30.830]  Uh, the interference is very widespread, but the FCC is turning their heads at it.
[30:31.370 --> 30:33.690]  Um, another case of the lobby market paying them off.
[30:33.790 --> 30:35.870]  Now that Bush is showing support for it, I think it's going to happen.
[30:36.250 --> 30:45.570]  Sad thing is that once all the money has been spent and people are buying into it, the FCC is going to be forced to turn back and stop BPL due to the widespread interference with military and amateur radio services.
[30:46.290 --> 30:48.710]  As you said about a week or two ago, keep your money away from BPL.
[30:48.810 --> 30:50.370]  It will not be around long, at least I hope.
[30:50.490 --> 30:51.230]  Signed, Charlie.
[30:52.150 --> 30:53.210]  Um, I have a question.
[30:53.370 --> 30:53.550]  Yes.
[30:53.670 --> 30:54.390]  What's a BPL?
[30:54.750 --> 30:55.930]  You have to listen to the old shows.
[30:56.550 --> 30:56.790]  All right.
[30:57.150 --> 30:59.710]  Uh, or ask Bernie.
[31:00.130 --> 31:05.930]  Uh, this is concerning your remarks on George Bush and how he spoke on his little speech and how he made a mistake on the second line.
[31:06.090 --> 31:06.350]  Oh, boy.
[31:06.810 --> 31:11.230]  Uh, now it's rather amusing to make fun of his way of speech, I give you that, but it is wrong to dislike him because of it.
[31:11.710 --> 31:13.610]  Did I ever say I disliked George Bush?
[31:13.910 --> 31:14.870]  You gave the impression.
[31:14.870 --> 31:17.730]  I dislike George Bush and it's not because of his speech patterns.
[31:17.850 --> 31:18.810]  I dislike his policies.
[31:18.910 --> 31:19.310]  I dislike...
[31:19.310 --> 31:19.890]  But I've never...
[31:19.890 --> 31:20.770]  I've never hung out with him.
[31:20.870 --> 31:21.230]  I wrote...
[31:21.230 --> 31:21.550]  I...
[31:21.550 --> 31:23.830]  Honestly, I've never actually spent quality time with him.
[31:23.910 --> 31:24.950]  So he might be a lot of fun.
[31:25.430 --> 31:26.370]  Not from what I hear.
[31:26.470 --> 31:26.810]  Well, I don't know.
[31:26.810 --> 31:27.890]  I heard he's a party animal.
[31:28.670 --> 31:29.630]  Well, okay, you don't know.
[31:29.710 --> 31:33.090]  But, you know, I probably wouldn't based on what I've heard.
[31:33.610 --> 31:35.910]  But I don't think I ever said I didn't like him based on what he was saying.
[31:36.470 --> 31:37.970]  I said something else based on what he was saying.
[31:37.970 --> 31:38.790]  But let me continue with the letter.
[31:39.930 --> 31:44.070]  It is a shame that you would make fun of him in such a way and say that it should be held up to a standard.
[31:44.190 --> 31:46.650]  But the biggest fault I have with him is his political ideologies.
[31:46.950 --> 31:51.630]  To not wish to vote for someone because of the way in which he speaks is a disgrace to the democratic process.
[31:52.170 --> 31:55.530]  If people start doing that, next we will end up voting for the prettiest president.
[31:55.950 --> 32:00.690]  Judging people on how they speak or look are superficial things which are not in any way related to how one can run the country.
[32:00.690 --> 32:01.550]  Hey, I agree with that.
[32:01.710 --> 32:02.470]  I agree with that.
[32:02.550 --> 32:07.170]  But I don't think we based anything solely on the way somebody looks or the way somebody speaks.
[32:07.290 --> 32:16.030]  Rather, we were looking at the way somebody spoke as evidence of more of what is backed up by what he actually does.
[32:17.030 --> 32:19.070]  Anyway, I shall share a little story.
[32:19.130 --> 32:21.470]  I know a man who has had a stroke and is unable to speak properly.
[32:21.630 --> 32:22.490]  He stutters constantly.
[32:22.670 --> 32:24.810]  He cannot walk without the help of a crutch attached to both arms.
[32:24.930 --> 32:25.570]  His fingers shake.
[32:25.710 --> 32:28.190]  Yet this man is one of the best coders I have ever met.
[32:28.190 --> 32:30.070]  When I first met him, I thought he had mental problems.
[32:30.290 --> 32:33.410]  But upon talking to him, I realized he was one of the smartest people I have ever met.
[32:33.690 --> 32:37.430]  This is just a little thing to show you how you cannot judge someone from their speech or even appearance.
[32:37.970 --> 32:42.870]  Considering you have not met George Bush and talked with him, I do not know how you have the audacity to say he is illiterate.
[32:43.030 --> 32:43.950]  Your friend Bernie S.
[32:44.070 --> 32:46.450]  is slightly dyslexic and made a mistake when reading his prison number.
[32:46.530 --> 32:47.450]  Does that make him illiterate?
[32:47.570 --> 32:47.870]  No.
[32:48.090 --> 32:48.370]  All right.
[32:49.130 --> 32:50.030]  Got to step in here.
[32:51.230 --> 32:56.670]  First of all, we're basing this not on merely somebody's words.
[32:57.310 --> 33:01.130]  Your friend is... has proven himself by the code he wrote.
[33:01.310 --> 33:02.750]  He's proven himself to be very smart.
[33:03.210 --> 33:05.350]  However, if we look at the things that George W.
[33:05.450 --> 33:09.010]  Bush has done, that only underlines what he says in real life.
[33:09.170 --> 33:13.570]  It only underlines those words that don't make any sense with the policies that don't make any sense.
[33:13.810 --> 33:15.690]  And that's the point I was trying to make.
[33:16.350 --> 33:16.950]  A good example.
[33:16.950 --> 33:17.530]  Look at the Pope.
[33:17.730 --> 33:20.970]  The Pope can barely string a sentence together, but you know he's very intelligent.
[33:21.390 --> 33:21.850]  You know?
[33:22.610 --> 33:23.850]  And we don't make fun of him.
[33:24.010 --> 33:28.450]  The Pope can barely string a sentence together in any one of dozens of languages.
[33:28.750 --> 33:32.530]  Well, you disagree with his policies, and I disagree with many of his policies as well.
[33:32.650 --> 33:35.610]  But the point is, just because somebody speaks funny doesn't mean they're stupid.
[33:35.750 --> 33:36.730]  No, that's not the issue.
[33:36.810 --> 33:37.650]  That's not what we were saying.
[33:39.230 --> 33:47.710]  But some of the things, you know, when you look at the way a leader of a country cannot distinguish past tense from present tense, there's a problem there.
[33:47.870 --> 33:49.790]  And it's linked to other things as well.
[33:49.930 --> 33:52.310]  It's linked to ignorance of world affairs.
[33:52.990 --> 33:54.510]  Not knowing that...
[33:54.510 --> 33:57.750]  He said at one point that we were allied with Japan for 150 years.
[33:58.010 --> 34:02.810]  I mean, a little thing called World War II in the way of that, and didn't know the name of the Pakistani president.
[34:02.930 --> 34:04.690]  It was a prepared speech, too.
[34:04.690 --> 34:05.850]  And that's the other thing.
[34:05.930 --> 34:08.090]  They never let him speak unless it's prepared.
[34:08.550 --> 34:09.730]  His own staff.
[34:09.970 --> 34:11.990]  So, I mean, things like that you have to look at.
[34:13.010 --> 34:13.550]  All right.
[34:13.850 --> 34:20.250]  Jim's comments on how he prefers to judge his politicians by their content, not their way of speech, were amazingly correct and hold worth.
[34:20.830 --> 34:21.310]  Thank you.
[34:21.490 --> 34:23.110]  Well might you not in pride, Jim.
[34:23.490 --> 34:29.970]  The apparently insane lady who called in to berate Jim did not... did comprehend what a president does.
[34:30.010 --> 34:31.610]  I think he meant to say did not comprehend what a president.
[34:31.670 --> 34:32.110]  I'm not sure.
[34:32.110 --> 34:35.990]  I respect Jim more than anyone who would not vote for Bush because of his speech patterns.
[34:36.270 --> 34:42.870]  I happen to hate Bush's politics and ways, but nevertheless, I have no respect for someone who votes on superficial things which are completely irrelevant to politics.
[34:42.990 --> 34:45.030]  Well, again, you're putting words in our mouth here.
[34:45.090 --> 34:45.730]  We never said that.
[34:45.730 --> 34:56.890]  And I think when someone doesn't know history, doesn't know foreign policy, and can't basically string a sentence together on a sixth grade level, you've got to sort of wrap it all up in one big package.
[34:58.050 --> 34:59.110]  Anyway, finishing off here.
[34:59.270 --> 35:04.550]  Jim also said he believed that it was regional colloquialisms which were to blame for Bush speaking that way.
[35:04.670 --> 35:05.710]  I must disagree here.
[35:05.850 --> 35:10.310]  Now, there may be a part of his method of speech which is affected by this, but I believe that he puts it on, so to speak.
[35:10.310 --> 35:17.530]  I believe that he wishes to appear outright and frank, and the way he speaks and acts, it is comprehensible by the majority of the uneducated public.
[35:18.610 --> 35:19.670]  That's the target audience.
[35:20.170 --> 35:22.010]  People understand Bush's way of speech.
[35:22.350 --> 35:23.710]  In other words, America is good.
[35:23.790 --> 35:24.450]  Terrorists are bad.
[35:24.530 --> 35:25.010]  We help people.
[35:25.090 --> 35:25.570]  They kill people.
[35:25.650 --> 35:26.250]  They hate being free.
[35:26.330 --> 35:26.970]  We like being free.
[35:27.090 --> 35:27.790]  God bless America.
[35:29.070 --> 35:30.330]  That is how I see his speeches.
[35:30.370 --> 35:34.510]  It may seem simple-minded and stupid to you, a university-educated, intelligent man.
[35:34.890 --> 35:40.710]  But to an average person who has only completed high school, is this not much more understandable than complicated politics and discussions?
[35:40.850 --> 35:41.050]  You know what?
[35:41.070 --> 35:45.250]  I think you're doing a disservice to the people that did not graduate high school or college.
[35:45.410 --> 35:49.750]  A lot of people can see when the wool is being pulled over their eyes.
[35:49.830 --> 35:53.990]  You don't have to go to college to know when someone's, you know, basically speaking nonsense.
[35:54.510 --> 35:57.110]  So I don't necessarily see that there.
[35:58.730 --> 36:00.070]  Anyway, I signed Paul from Canada.
[36:00.170 --> 36:01.670]  Thanks very much for the letter.
[36:02.370 --> 36:13.590]  Part of the tasks that a president must perform require high levels of illiteracy more than maybe even I have, you know, more than a lot of people have.
[36:13.690 --> 36:21.210]  That's why we have a president, you know, not, you know, just some random idiot running the country for a day.
[36:21.390 --> 36:25.310]  All kinds of misunderstandings take place because you phrase something the wrong way.
[36:25.310 --> 36:34.370]  And I don't think it's unreasonable to expect higher than average levels of intelligence and literacy from the leader of the free world.
[36:34.410 --> 36:36.510]  And it's not like there's a shortage of such people, you know.
[36:37.010 --> 36:37.710]  I've seen them.
[36:37.830 --> 36:38.150]  They're around.
[36:38.270 --> 36:39.450]  People can do this kind of thing.
[36:39.530 --> 36:39.790]  Yes, Jim.
[36:39.970 --> 36:41.290]  Well, let me speculate here.
[36:41.430 --> 36:45.550]  And Paul from Canada, whose letter we just read, if I'm right, email us back.
[36:47.510 --> 36:56.770]  My take on this is that I think that he and others believe that there are so many other ways you could complain about President Bush.
[36:57.110 --> 37:02.970]  The way that you seem to have done it, that he complains about, seems rather petty.
[37:05.590 --> 37:09.070]  And, you know, in other words, complain about the substance rather than the style.
[37:09.190 --> 37:11.030]  If it were the only thing, I would agree with you.
[37:11.030 --> 37:25.150]  You know, if someone just had a speech impediment of some sort and couldn't say things in a particular way, but was otherwise intelligent and understood what was going on in the world and made logical decisions, yeah, it would be unfair to just pick on that one trait.
[37:25.630 --> 37:31.290]  But here I see that one trait as being indicative of the entire policy and everything that he does.
[37:31.790 --> 37:33.530]  A lack of understanding, a lack of interest.
[37:33.670 --> 37:35.070]  This is a guy who doesn't read newspapers.
[37:35.450 --> 37:37.610]  You know, he doesn't want to know what's going on in the world.
[37:37.610 --> 37:41.290]  He wants to dictate his policy and walk away from it.
[37:41.390 --> 37:50.290]  And it's been a disaster on every level, whether it's, you know, financial, foreign policy, security, freedom, you know, civil rights, all that kind of thing.
[37:50.370 --> 37:53.370]  He seems to have only his interests in mind.
[37:53.990 --> 37:54.430]  Well.
[37:54.590 --> 37:57.110]  As opposed to the interests of the country he's supposed to be running.
[37:57.310 --> 37:59.490]  I mean, it's not just one person doing this.
[37:59.750 --> 38:01.270]  It's the whole administration.
[38:01.310 --> 38:04.450]  But as far as, you know, what we've seen him do...
[38:04.450 --> 38:08.690]  He's basically a puppet of what's pulling his strings behind him, I think.
[38:08.830 --> 38:09.090]  All right.
[38:09.250 --> 38:12.130]  So he's serving the interests of whoever's behind...
[38:12.130 --> 38:15.730]  The people that are coming to New York in July, August, and September, rather.
[38:16.390 --> 38:17.870]  And, boy, is that going to be fun.
[38:18.250 --> 38:28.410]  I'm hearing now that entire sections of the city are going to be closed off for that four-day period, July and August, 7th Avenue, 8th Avenue, Penn Station.
[38:29.390 --> 38:34.050]  Well, they promise that Penn Station will remain open, and it'll be interesting to see if they keep their promise.
[38:34.230 --> 38:36.250]  Subways are supposed to skip 34th Street.
[38:37.310 --> 38:37.850]  That's interesting.
[38:37.890 --> 38:38.570]  It's going to be insane.
[38:38.610 --> 38:40.190]  What do we get out of this, exactly?
[38:40.390 --> 38:41.770]  You know, it's just going to be a bunch of mayhem.
[38:42.830 --> 38:43.190]  Protests.
[38:43.310 --> 38:44.590]  This is something else I don't understand.
[38:46.990 --> 38:50.930]  An application was filed to have a protest march, and it was denied, of course.
[38:51.130 --> 38:54.950]  Why do you file applications to protest something?
[38:54.950 --> 38:57.830]  We have the right to protest something every minute of every day.
[38:58.350 --> 38:59.730]  Just show up and protest.
[39:00.370 --> 39:01.030]  What's with this?
[39:01.150 --> 39:02.350]  Asking, can we do this?
[39:02.570 --> 39:05.450]  You ask enough people if you can do something, and someone's going to say no.
[39:06.990 --> 39:07.750]  Can I say that?
[39:08.510 --> 39:09.270]  You just did.
[39:09.410 --> 39:09.950]  We should pick...
[39:09.950 --> 39:10.530]  Well, that's the other thing.
[39:10.610 --> 39:11.410]  Say it first, then ask.
[39:11.410 --> 39:14.710]  We should pick at City Hall about the necessity to get a permit to protest.
[39:15.010 --> 39:16.270]  Can we stand on City Hall still?
[39:16.590 --> 39:17.410]  I don't really know.
[39:17.410 --> 39:17.930]  We hope that right.
[39:18.690 --> 39:24.130]  By the way, one thing about the administration serving other interests than those other people.
[39:24.130 --> 39:25.290]  Do you remember WorldCom?
[39:26.010 --> 39:27.510]  You know, the company...
[39:28.010 --> 39:28.410]  MCI.
[39:28.670 --> 39:29.030]  Yes.
[39:29.910 --> 39:31.770]  In trouble for many things.
[39:32.270 --> 39:36.470]  Did you know that they were offered the contracts to rebuild the telecommunications in Iraq?
[39:37.130 --> 39:40.230]  I'm sure there's all kinds of hanky-panky going on over there with Halliburton.
[39:41.130 --> 39:43.390]  But that's, you know, that would happen in any administration.
[39:43.390 --> 39:45.730]  You'd have that kind of, you know, underhanded dealings.
[39:45.730 --> 39:56.350]  Well, of all the companies, yes, but of all the companies to choose from, the one that's, you know, in trouble, I mean, it doesn't seem to make any sense from any point of view.
[39:56.490 --> 39:58.110]  Or maybe it makes too much sense.
[39:58.370 --> 40:01.730]  Maybe it ties into our cynical view of the world.
[40:02.150 --> 40:03.430]  What's your cynical view of the world?
[40:03.510 --> 40:04.010]  Give us a call.
[40:04.130 --> 40:07.250]  212-209-2900.
[40:08.310 --> 40:09.190]  That's our phone number.
[40:09.330 --> 40:10.210]  And this is off the hook.
[40:10.330 --> 40:12.810]  We'll be taking phone calls for the duration of the hour.
[40:13.150 --> 40:15.550]  Before we do, I just want to give one website.
[40:15.550 --> 40:31.390]  S-T-O-P-L-Y-S, stoplights or something like that, dot D-K, is a stoplight that tells you whether or not it's safe to go into the Copenhagen neighborhood of Christiania, which we've talked about on the show before.
[40:31.850 --> 40:37.490]  Now, this is the, I guess, anarchist commune is the best way to describe it, on the former military base.
[40:37.650 --> 40:37.830]  Right.
[40:38.430 --> 40:39.350]  In Copenhagen.
[40:39.350 --> 40:42.730]  It's survived since the 60s, and now there seems to be a move to dismantle it.
[40:42.730 --> 40:48.050]  The police are, like, invading and not invading, and this and that and the other, and shutting people down.
[40:48.250 --> 40:51.970]  So I guess some folks set up this website telling you if it's safe or not.
[40:52.050 --> 41:04.430]  It would be very sad if that community disappeared, because I think it represents something that's rather unique in Danish culture, and that's tolerance of people you disagree with, even if they go against what you consider to be the rules.
[41:05.430 --> 41:13.370]  People in Denmark love to follow rules, I know that, but they also, they're open enough to realize that other people have different ways of living.
[41:14.050 --> 41:18.290]  And I've been to Christiania several times, and it's an interesting place.
[41:18.530 --> 41:26.910]  You know, not a bad place, just a very different place, something you can take away experiences from and learn from, and it would never happen in this country.
[41:26.930 --> 41:27.770]  That's the sad fact.
[41:28.410 --> 41:28.570]  All right.
[41:28.610 --> 41:29.370]  Shall we take a phone call?
[41:29.470 --> 41:30.330]  You want to pick one, Red Hack?
[41:30.490 --> 41:30.650]  Sure.
[41:30.810 --> 41:31.110]  All right.
[41:32.410 --> 41:34.390]  And you have to press the button in.
[41:35.190 --> 41:35.630]  All right?
[41:35.790 --> 41:37.210]  I should have trained you on this before.
[41:37.290 --> 41:37.410]  Okay.
[41:37.450 --> 41:37.710]  Very good.
[41:37.810 --> 41:38.170]  You did it.
[41:38.270 --> 41:38.550]  Good evening.
[41:38.570 --> 41:38.990]  You're on the air.
[41:38.990 --> 41:39.670]  Oh, good evening.
[41:39.970 --> 41:55.570]  I just wanted to comment on that previous criticism about mentioning George Bush's or focusing on his inability to complete sentences properly and get his facts.
[41:55.730 --> 42:00.950]  Well, I think the problem is that we just had, what, six, well, came off eight years of Clinton.
[42:00.950 --> 42:10.210]  We've got Tony Blair, who are pretty eloquent and, you know, coherent and, you know, speakers.
[42:10.210 --> 42:21.250]  And I think that people expect that from a world leader who's supposed to be considered a great leader, someone who's strong, someone who commands an audience, somebody who is presidential.
[42:21.470 --> 42:24.270]  Yeah, I mean, look at any leader, you know, Margaret Thatcher.
[42:24.450 --> 42:24.550]  Right.
[42:24.990 --> 42:27.130]  Valerie Giscard, anybody can...
[42:27.130 --> 42:30.210]  Even Ronald Reagan may have gotten his facts wrong.
[42:30.210 --> 42:31.390]  He was a great communicator.
[42:31.530 --> 42:31.750]  Right.
[42:32.430 --> 42:34.030]  Even Karzai in Afghanistan.
[42:34.030 --> 42:35.730]  He speaks better English than George W.
[42:35.890 --> 42:36.070]  Bush.
[42:37.010 --> 42:37.710]  It's true.
[42:37.770 --> 42:38.850]  And it says something about the person.
[42:39.050 --> 42:39.430]  Mm-hmm.
[42:39.810 --> 42:54.170]  And it says something about the party that wanted this guy because they felt confident enough that, confident enough that, aside from all these problems, they could still manipulate people enough to get them to vote for the guy.
[42:54.610 --> 43:05.430]  And that's the thing, back in 2000, I remember commenting on this, maybe even on this station, that I could not understand why this guy was considered the frontrunner before anyone even heard him speak a single word.
[43:05.550 --> 43:05.850]  Exactly.
[43:05.990 --> 43:11.390]  Except people in Texas, of course, but as far as the national campaign, he was just the frontrunner before he said anything.
[43:11.450 --> 43:16.010]  And then all of a sudden, he started speaking, and boy, you know, we started to realize what we might be in for.
[43:16.330 --> 43:17.690]  Yeah, there was really no primary.
[43:18.130 --> 43:18.890]  Not really, no.
[43:19.030 --> 43:20.250]  Yeah, he was just ordained.
[43:20.250 --> 43:27.570]  And I think someone like McCain, who I think a lot of Republicans early on said, hey, this guy might be our man.
[43:28.050 --> 43:31.790]  Oh, suddenly the right wing just attacked him relentlessly.
[43:32.390 --> 43:36.290]  Yeah, it's weird because a lot of people on the left respect McCain quite a bit.
[43:36.350 --> 43:40.710]  In fact, he was even mentioned as a possible running mate for Kerry, which I thought was pretty bizarre.
[43:40.870 --> 43:41.610]  Yeah, yeah, I know.
[43:41.690 --> 43:43.490]  My brother-in-law was mentioning that.
[43:43.650 --> 43:49.370]  But this is something I think that goes across whatever political ideology that you might have because I know a lot of conservative people.
[43:49.370 --> 43:54.890]  I see them all the time, and a lot of them cannot believe what's going on today.
[43:55.190 --> 43:55.270]  Really?
[43:55.390 --> 43:57.310]  It's sort of like a nightmare slowly unfolding.
[43:57.490 --> 44:01.070]  So they're saying that they don't believe in Bush anymore?
[44:01.430 --> 44:05.570]  They, you know, they kind of have to vote for him, obviously, because they're...
[44:06.010 --> 44:06.770]  No, they don't.
[44:06.830 --> 44:07.470]  Obviously, they don't.
[44:07.530 --> 44:15.510]  But that's... it's the turmoil within that a lot of conservatives are feeling right now that, you know, this guy really doesn't represent me, but I can't vote for the other side.
[44:15.510 --> 44:16.210]  I just can't do it.
[44:16.750 --> 44:20.550]  You know, and the same kind of thing, same kind of conflict within for people opposed to the war.
[44:20.750 --> 44:25.210]  A lot of people who are serving over there right now hate being over there, and they don't want to be over there.
[44:25.270 --> 44:28.830]  Of course, they can't just walk out, but they realize that what's going on is wrong.
[44:29.210 --> 44:31.050]  They could have refused to go, and they didn't.
[44:31.310 --> 44:36.670]  Yeah, a lot of people could have done things in the past, and I think a lot of people are realizing how bad a mistake they made.
[44:36.670 --> 44:39.510]  I heard that some of the soldiers are actually pro-war.
[44:39.790 --> 44:46.330]  The ones really fighting the fight is because they kind of have to be to be in there risking their lives.
[44:46.490 --> 44:50.150]  They have to believe in the mission, or else they're really not going to have the morale to go out there.
[44:50.670 --> 44:59.170]  And I think probably it's more of the officers who are more against the war than the guys who are really in the slog of it.
[44:59.170 --> 45:09.070]  But that's at least what I've read, and it kind of makes sense to a degree that you're going to have less dissent among the guys that are really risking their lives in there.
[45:09.670 --> 45:10.390]  But that's...
[45:10.390 --> 45:10.870]  Yeah.
[45:11.430 --> 45:12.650]  All right, listen, thanks for your call.
[45:13.950 --> 45:16.690]  You have to hit the off button first, okay, and then you push the other button.
[45:16.830 --> 45:17.610]  All right, go ahead.
[45:18.990 --> 45:20.050]  And go ahead, you're on the air.
[45:20.470 --> 45:22.410]  Yeah, about five years ago, I was...
[45:22.410 --> 45:22.690]  You did it wrong.
[45:22.890 --> 45:23.390]  You did it wrong.
[45:23.590 --> 45:24.210]  Do it again.
[45:26.470 --> 45:27.730]  All right, good evening, you're on the air.
[45:28.810 --> 45:29.390]  Go ahead.
[45:29.990 --> 45:30.590]  Oh, hello, folks.
[45:31.690 --> 45:35.510]  I just was calling to ask you folks a question, a favor, actually.
[45:35.750 --> 45:47.050]  Can somebody hang around after the show and talk to the PC Computer Show guys and warn them that that's Rebel that keeps on calling in near the end of the show, tying up the lines, asking any questions that he probably already knows the answer to?
[45:47.050 --> 45:48.990]  Well, what good would warning them do?
[45:50.150 --> 45:54.190]  Well, at least when they heard them, they could just hang up like you guys have been so cleverly doing the last few weeks.
[45:54.310 --> 45:55.170]  Last ten years, Troy.
[45:55.310 --> 45:56.770]  Okay, thanks for your call.
[45:56.770 --> 46:00.810]  Well, 212-209-2900, and good evening.
[46:01.010 --> 46:01.490]  You're on the air.
[46:02.310 --> 46:02.630]  Oh, hi.
[46:02.870 --> 46:03.270]  Edison.
[46:03.730 --> 46:05.210]  Before Edison, it was called Raritan.
[46:06.010 --> 46:06.410]  What?
[46:06.490 --> 46:07.290]  The name changed?
[46:07.450 --> 46:07.630]  Mm-hmm.
[46:07.790 --> 46:09.330]  Well, Edison wasn't always alive, right?
[46:09.710 --> 46:10.450]  That's true.
[46:10.790 --> 46:11.710]  He wasn't always alive.
[46:11.870 --> 46:12.610]  Raritan was.
[46:12.870 --> 46:13.130]  Right.
[46:13.330 --> 46:13.590]  Okay.
[46:13.830 --> 46:15.010]  And it's on the Raritan River.
[46:15.650 --> 46:16.050]  Okay.
[46:16.350 --> 46:16.530]  Aha.
[46:16.690 --> 46:17.430]  Well, that's a little bit of history.
[46:17.530 --> 46:18.950]  Is there a Raritan these days, though?
[46:19.350 --> 46:19.890]  I'm not sure.
[46:20.230 --> 46:20.810]  It's a big state.
[46:21.330 --> 46:21.950]  There may be.
[46:22.690 --> 46:22.970]  Okay.
[46:23.190 --> 46:24.470]  Well, a little bit of New Jersey history here.
[46:24.570 --> 46:25.830]  Thank you very much for that information.
[46:26.070 --> 46:29.930]  And proof, yet again, that BAI listeners know everything if you group them all together in one room.
[46:30.030 --> 46:31.710]  But then, of course, you'll have bloodshed, too.
[46:32.290 --> 46:32.650]  All right.
[46:33.030 --> 46:33.350]  Okay.
[46:34.190 --> 46:34.870]  Press that button.
[46:34.990 --> 46:35.410]  I got it.
[46:35.710 --> 46:36.730]  You're pressing too many buttons.
[46:36.830 --> 46:36.990]  All right.
[46:37.030 --> 46:37.290]  Good evening.
[46:37.350 --> 46:37.750]  You're on the air.
[46:38.290 --> 46:39.010]  Hey, what's up, guys?
[46:39.190 --> 46:39.550]  How you doing?
[46:40.230 --> 46:40.450]  Good.
[46:40.650 --> 46:44.530]  I was wondering if you guys got my email on the eBay scam thing.
[46:45.330 --> 46:46.110]  We might have.
[46:46.190 --> 46:47.470]  It might come in too late for this week's show.
[46:47.550 --> 46:48.490]  But why don't you tell us about it quickly?
[46:49.430 --> 46:50.310]  I got an email.
[46:50.830 --> 46:53.070]  The title said I had to update my credit card on eBay.
[46:54.450 --> 46:59.470]  And during our regular verification of the accounts, we couldn't verify your current information, blah, blah, blah.
[46:59.630 --> 47:00.690]  The English is really bad.
[47:00.690 --> 47:06.310]  But there's a link, and it opens up a PHP form, and it looks official.
[47:06.490 --> 47:08.330]  They actually pulled the graphics from eBay's server.
[47:08.590 --> 47:09.190]  Well, hang on.
[47:09.350 --> 47:12.230]  It sounds like you got something that's fake mail, right?
[47:12.230 --> 47:12.590]  It is.
[47:12.630 --> 47:13.130]  It is, yeah.
[47:13.230 --> 47:16.110]  But I've never actually received anything like this.
[47:16.190 --> 47:16.850]  They want your...
[47:16.850 --> 47:17.270]  They even want...
[47:17.270 --> 47:19.210]  They ask for your PIN code from your credit card.
[47:19.830 --> 47:22.410]  Yeah, that little extra digit set over there to protect you.
[47:22.410 --> 47:23.270]  And then you send it.
[47:23.330 --> 47:27.630]  It sends it to a different IP that it looks like it's sending it to, which is actually in Asia.
[47:27.810 --> 47:28.590]  I trace routed it.
[47:28.590 --> 47:31.730]  And then it pops you to eBay's actual page.
[47:31.870 --> 47:32.150]  I just...
[47:32.150 --> 47:32.450]  I don't know.
[47:32.490 --> 47:33.270]  I've never seen anything like that.
[47:33.350 --> 47:34.230]  I've seen that.
[47:34.350 --> 47:35.850]  I've seen PayPal, the same thing.
[47:36.110 --> 47:40.450]  And, you know, even if you don't have an account with these companies, you get this kind of junk mail.
[47:40.550 --> 47:41.190]  It's a scam.
[47:41.270 --> 47:41.490]  You're right.
[47:41.570 --> 47:41.770]  Totally.
[47:41.990 --> 47:42.730]  What does the...
[47:42.730 --> 47:42.810]  I filled it up.
[47:43.170 --> 47:43.490]  Sorry.
[47:43.550 --> 47:44.610]  What does the URL say?
[47:45.030 --> 47:46.950]  What does it show when you're on the page?
[47:47.450 --> 47:53.730]  Well, it says sign-in.ebay.com, but it's actually going to 61.100.12.150.
[47:55.390 --> 47:58.710]  And it's, like I said, it's pulling the graphics from eBay's graphic servers.
[47:58.930 --> 47:59.670]  And it looks...
[47:59.670 --> 48:00.690]  It's done really well.
[48:01.110 --> 48:02.370]  But you can enter anything.
[48:02.530 --> 48:06.110]  They want your username and password, but you enter gibberation, lots of fun stuff like I did.
[48:06.230 --> 48:06.450]  Uh-huh.
[48:06.530 --> 48:11.670]  Hit send, and it does submit it somewhere to that IP, and then bounces you back to an eBay page.
[48:11.890 --> 48:12.630]  How about that?
[48:12.630 --> 48:15.190]  So, did you check out where that IP goes?
[48:15.770 --> 48:16.630]  Uh, yeah.
[48:16.830 --> 48:18.430]  I actually have the information right here.
[48:18.510 --> 48:26.490]  Asia-Pacific Network Information Center, which if you look at the English in the email or the actual original text, it's kind of a dead giveaway that can't speak English.
[48:26.690 --> 48:27.850]  But, uh, yeah.
[48:27.990 --> 48:30.910]  State Providence, QLD, Country AU.
[48:32.010 --> 48:33.110]  AU is Australia.
[48:33.530 --> 48:34.030]  It is Australia.
[48:34.030 --> 48:34.810]  They speak English there, usually.
[48:35.890 --> 48:38.230]  Well, it says Asia-Pacific, but...
[48:38.230 --> 48:40.690]  Okay, they're probably providing service to another place, but...
[48:40.690 --> 48:41.050]  Yeah, yeah.
[48:41.050 --> 48:43.310]  Or it just could be somebody that doesn't speak English well.
[48:43.450 --> 48:45.170]  I mean, there are people like that wandering around, I hear.
[48:45.650 --> 48:48.510]  Yeah, I would think if they're going to scam people, they'd do a better job, but, uh...
[48:48.510 --> 48:50.830]  You could report it to the ISB and probably get them...
[48:50.830 --> 49:01.830]  I find it fascinating just to see all these different scams that come across, the ones in all caps saying, my father was the imperial officer of this particular country, and I have $50 million, and you can have half if you just send me your bank information.
[49:02.010 --> 49:02.830]  Those are great.
[49:02.970 --> 49:04.150]  Those are great, you know?
[49:04.310 --> 49:11.870]  And anybody that is stupid enough to fall for them and send them all the information that they ask for, you know, it's kind of... it's fodder for humor, I think.
[49:12.090 --> 49:18.150]  You do know that the aristocratic classes in Nigeria never learned... never traditionally used lowercase letters.
[49:18.570 --> 49:19.950]  It was reserved for the commoners.
[49:19.990 --> 49:22.230]  I'd like to know why... okay, maybe, you know, no one asked this question.
[49:22.390 --> 49:27.770]  There's all kinds of talk about... it's called the 419 scam because I think it's based on the particular law in Nigeria.
[49:28.270 --> 49:29.450]  Why does it have to always be Nigeria?
[49:29.450 --> 49:29.910]  I don't know.
[49:29.970 --> 49:30.910]  But why is it always caps?
[49:31.130 --> 49:32.130]  How did that get started?
[49:32.130 --> 49:34.050]  How did the all-caps part get started?
[49:34.710 --> 49:44.570]  And the latest version of all this is really genius, where someone is stuck on this space station, and they can't get off until someone sends money.
[49:44.830 --> 49:45.810]  So it's like...
[49:45.810 --> 49:45.850]  Wow.
[49:45.890 --> 49:48.570]  It's a variation of the Nigerian scam, except they're in space.
[49:48.570 --> 49:51.290]  You think maybe a spammer's just starting to have fun with it?
[49:51.410 --> 49:51.910]  I think so.
[49:52.010 --> 49:52.490]  I think so.
[49:52.690 --> 49:58.650]  There was a version going around for President Bush, too, saying, I'm the president of the United States, I need your help, etc.
[49:58.850 --> 49:59.770]  It was pretty fun.
[49:59.770 --> 50:05.430]  Now, interestingly enough, I got what seemed at first to be a phishing expedition, as the phrase goes.
[50:06.450 --> 50:10.590]  But all the links on it, I got it in mangled HTML.
[50:11.610 --> 50:14.810]  It was apparently intended to be sent as a webpage.
[50:15.130 --> 50:17.070]  It was sent to an Hotmail account that I have.
[50:17.250 --> 50:19.410]  It appeared to be entirely from AOL.
[50:19.690 --> 50:21.890]  It said, we're updating our accounts.
[50:22.610 --> 50:24.670]  Please send your credit card information.
[50:24.990 --> 50:27.790]  The mail back seems to be to an AOL address.
[50:27.790 --> 50:30.610]  I didn't look at it closely enough.
[50:30.610 --> 50:31.590]  I'll forward it to you sometime.
[50:32.170 --> 50:41.310]  But the interesting thing is that I didn't have this Hotmail address until after I had had a lack of contact with AOL.
[50:41.510 --> 50:44.430]  Until after my AOL accounts had gone south, so to speak.
[50:44.670 --> 50:49.350]  So there's no way that AOL could be sending me anything in this address.
[50:49.850 --> 50:51.250]  Well, it's just a mass mailer.
[50:51.470 --> 50:52.990]  Yeah, it's probably mailing to everybody on Hotmail.
[50:52.990 --> 50:55.210]  And then hopefully there's a hit somewhere.
[50:55.650 --> 50:56.130]  I'm sure.
[50:56.170 --> 50:59.290]  You know, when you send millions and millions of messages, you're bound to get some.
[50:59.310 --> 51:04.270]  I'll send it to OTH and we'll see exactly, hopefully somebody will see exactly what it is.
[51:04.470 --> 51:11.650]  The latest, one of the latest things has to do with people on particular systems getting mass mailing, saying that their email account is about to be turned off.
[51:11.750 --> 51:14.730]  And you must contact us or download this program.
[51:14.730 --> 51:17.570]  And God knows what that program will do to your system if you do download it.
[51:17.570 --> 51:21.410]  But, of course, it appears to be coming from the system administrator of your system.
[51:21.550 --> 51:22.470]  It's fake mail.
[51:22.590 --> 51:23.670]  We see it on our system all the time.
[51:24.030 --> 51:30.910]  Risk's Digest had a little thing on that in which what they said was, hi, we're the administrator of your system.
[51:31.650 --> 51:34.370]  You've been accused of sending spam.
[51:34.370 --> 51:41.190]  Now, to make sure that this is going to the owner of this email box, give us your credit card info.
[51:41.470 --> 51:43.470]  Yeah, some people get so indignant that they'll do it.
[51:43.470 --> 51:44.550]  I'm going to prove myself innocent.
[51:44.830 --> 51:46.290]  Here's my social security number, too.
[51:47.290 --> 51:48.510]  All right, let's take another phone call.
[51:48.610 --> 51:49.990]  212-209-2900.
[51:50.110 --> 51:51.930]  It's like everyone knows that spammers don't have social security numbers.
[51:52.050 --> 51:52.390]  And good evening.
[51:52.470 --> 51:52.830]  You're on the air.
[51:53.330 --> 51:53.870]  Yes, hi.
[51:55.210 --> 51:56.510]  I'd like to say hi to Emmanuel.
[51:56.750 --> 51:57.730]  This is Theurgy from Ottawa.
[51:57.830 --> 51:58.150]  How are you doing?
[51:58.330 --> 51:58.750]  How are you doing?
[51:58.990 --> 51:59.330]  Good, good.
[51:59.470 --> 51:59.930]  You say Ottawa?
[52:00.210 --> 52:00.530]  Yes.
[52:00.690 --> 52:01.050]  Oh, great.
[52:01.270 --> 52:02.490]  Up there in Canada, right?
[52:02.550 --> 52:03.010]  Yeah, absolutely.
[52:03.110 --> 52:03.410]  All right.
[52:03.910 --> 52:09.030]  I'm just trying to give you a little bit of information on something that's actually been occurring here up here and up north.
[52:09.910 --> 52:13.430]  There's actually a scan that was going on with a big political party.
[52:13.430 --> 52:17.630]  There was a race for one of the political parties here called the Liberal Party.
[52:18.480 --> 52:22.250]  One of the candidates named Sheila Copps, she was running from Hamilton.
[52:23.410 --> 52:41.710]  She's actually... there's an investigation going on about an occurrence of fraud, most likely through competitive parties, of someone actually altering the phone records for someone to actually sort of alter the supporting parties towards the Liberal Party.
[52:41.870 --> 52:49.610]  So apparently there was a phone number and a 1-800 number that you would call in to support the party, and it was actually altered or hacked of some sort of way.
[52:49.690 --> 52:51.050]  Not hacked, but you know what I mean.
[52:52.430 --> 52:54.290]  And sort of redirected.
[52:54.430 --> 52:57.450]  And again, there's a lot of huge investigation going in on that right now.
[52:57.450 --> 52:59.590]  They redirected an 800 number, is what you're saying.
[52:59.710 --> 53:00.030]  Absolutely.
[53:00.290 --> 53:01.050]  It's easy to do that.
[53:01.150 --> 53:02.030]  You do a touchdown phone.
[53:02.150 --> 53:02.530]  It's not hard.
[53:02.930 --> 53:03.330]  Absolutely.
[53:03.490 --> 53:15.490]  But what's happening is this actually affected her vote as running for prime minister, as being the Liberal Party elected person to run for...
[53:15.490 --> 53:17.570]  She was actually one of the top leaders at this point.
[53:18.470 --> 53:19.530]  A question from James.
[53:19.830 --> 53:22.670]  This 800 number, what were you supposed to do when you dialed it?
[53:22.750 --> 53:26.970]  This was to say, I want her as the leader of the party, or to send her money, or what?
[53:27.490 --> 53:30.170]  It's a supporting... yeah, apparently it was a supporting number.
[53:30.310 --> 53:31.670]  Now, I have no information...
[53:31.670 --> 53:32.670]  We don't know what that means.
[53:33.850 --> 53:38.490]  Again, I'm not sure what it means either, actually, since I don't support the Liberal Party.
[53:38.650 --> 53:47.930]  But apparently it was sort of a line that was given to show up and also give up instructions as well as to how to show your support and so forth.
[53:48.650 --> 53:49.450]  And apparently...
[53:49.450 --> 53:53.750]  Well, bad information could be given out from somebody calling an 800 number and thinking that they're talking to somebody they're not.
[53:54.090 --> 53:54.490]  Absolutely.
[53:54.850 --> 53:55.130]  All right.
[53:55.130 --> 53:55.630]  Yeah.
[53:55.910 --> 54:04.550]  Now, basically, this kind of brings up a question of, you know, you guys were talking the past couple weeks ago in regards to the new voting machines that you guys are going to be implementing.
[54:05.510 --> 54:07.670]  Not if we have anything to say about it, but okay.
[54:07.750 --> 54:08.090]  Yeah, exactly.
[54:08.090 --> 54:08.670]  I hope so.
[54:09.250 --> 54:20.690]  And it's kind of just interesting how today, I mean, technology is being implemented in a lot of political affairs, and yet we still have to resort to very, very rudimentary needs to express our political ideals.
[54:20.690 --> 54:24.370]  I just find that very interesting comparatively, so...
[54:24.730 --> 54:25.050]  Okay.
[54:25.330 --> 54:26.470]  Thanks for your call.
[54:26.730 --> 54:26.990]  Thank you.
[54:27.410 --> 54:28.250]  Good luck up there in Canada.
[54:28.370 --> 54:28.510]  Yes.
[54:28.590 --> 54:31.090]  You know, Diebold is decertified in California.
[54:31.230 --> 54:32.610]  They're not going to be using Diebold machines.
[54:32.710 --> 54:32.810]  Yeah.
[54:32.970 --> 54:36.190]  On Saturday, I think that was announced that they're kicking them out.
[54:36.630 --> 54:36.950]  Hallelujah.
[54:37.430 --> 54:37.990]  So, ha.
[54:38.370 --> 54:38.670]  Yeah.
[54:39.210 --> 54:41.130]  But they'll be back in one form or another.
[54:41.310 --> 54:42.190]  Just take them on a phone call.
[54:43.010 --> 54:44.170]  And, good evening.
[54:44.370 --> 54:44.890]  You're on the air.
[54:45.870 --> 54:46.350]  Hi.
[54:46.590 --> 54:46.950]  How you doing?
[54:47.070 --> 55:04.850]  I just had a very brief antidote regarding something that happened on PayPal, because what I did was actually go to the Whois, and they've gotten so vicious now that they had actually taken out the domain name the same day that they sent the emails out,
[55:04.990 --> 55:16.950]  and that was, you know, the phony site, because it was supposed to be a PayPal, but when you clicked onto the redirect, the phony site was actually taken out the very same day on GoDaddy.
[55:17.070 --> 55:24.650]  But what was so ironic is that the Whois information, where they had the administrative contact and all that, I just got the devil in me, and I called.
[55:24.930 --> 55:35.470]  They had given out just made-up numbers, and I was calling innocent people who had no idea that this was happening, and I asked them to go to the web, and they actually went and saw their sites.
[55:35.710 --> 55:41.390]  These people have gotten so vicious that they're actually just putting innocent people as the administrative contact, the technical contact.
[55:41.410 --> 55:42.910]  You don't even have to put real phone numbers.
[55:43.030 --> 55:43.990]  You can just put all zeros.
[55:44.190 --> 55:47.810]  I know, but that's what's so hideous, is they actually put real people's numbers.
[55:48.070 --> 56:01.030]  The thing about that is, though, that's probably how the domain got pulled, because actually, if you put in false Whois information, you can request through Internet that the domain get pulled, and they don't have to ask whoever registered or anything.
[56:01.030 --> 56:04.210]  They just pull it, so...
[56:04.210 --> 56:06.870]  Yeah, that's one way of losing your account, I guess.
[56:07.190 --> 56:10.690]  But that wasn't possible in the past, but because of abuse, now it certainly is.
[56:10.930 --> 56:16.130]  All right, we're out of time, and I want to thank everybody for calling in, and hopefully we'll get to you next week if you didn't get through this week.
[56:16.470 --> 56:23.490]  Again, you can write to us, OTH at 2600.com, or off the hook, care of WBAI, 120 Wall Street, 10th floor, New York, New York.
[56:23.850 --> 56:25.290]  One double O-O-5.
[56:25.290 --> 56:31.490]  And, of course, 2600 Meetings coming up this Friday all throughout the world, www.2600.com slash meetings.
[56:31.490 --> 56:32.050]  Look it up.
[56:33.010 --> 56:34.470]  And we'll see you next week.
[56:34.570 --> 56:35.850]  Stay tuned for The Personal Computer Show.
[56:36.050 --> 56:36.470]  Good night.
[56:37.950 --> 56:50.170]  Throne like a star in my vast sleep, I opened my eyes to take a peek, to find that I was by the sea, gazing with tranquility.
[56:50.670 --> 56:59.690]  Just then when the hurdy-gurdy man came singing songs of love, then when the hurdy-gurdy man
[57:44.340 --> 58:14.780]  comes singing songs of love, then when the hurdy-gurdy man comes singing songs of love, thank you so much for listening.