[00:10.120 --> 00:12.800]  Who's side is the NAACP on?
[00:13.040 --> 00:17.280]  Join the struggle on Sunday, July 11th from 3 to 7 p.m.
[00:17.440 --> 00:29.360]  when International Concern Family and Friends, the Free Mamiya Coalition, Latinos for Mamiya, and others demonstrate and educate at the NAACP's National Convention in Philadelphia.
[00:29.360 --> 00:34.420]  Our demand, pass the resolution submitted by the Austin Inchapter in support of Mamiya.
[00:34.620 --> 00:35.800]  Take a stand.
[00:38.900 --> 00:46.700]  The NAACP's National Convention will be held at the Pennsylvania Convention Center in Philadelphia, 1101 Hart Street.
[00:46.900 --> 00:52.040]  For tickets and information, call 718-849-6886.
[00:52.040 --> 00:54.720]  That's 718-849-6886.
[00:56.000 --> 00:59.180]  Act now, the Free Mamiya and all political prisoners.
[00:59.600 --> 01:00.160]  On a move.
[01:10.440 --> 01:12.860]  And you're listening to radio station WBAI in New York.
[01:13.040 --> 01:14.380]  Time is just about 7 o'clock.
[01:14.780 --> 01:16.820]  Time for a special edition of Off the Hook.
[01:21.880 --> 01:23.840]  The telephone keeps ringing.
[01:24.160 --> 01:26.400]  So I ripped it off the wall.
[01:27.320 --> 01:29.360]  I cut myself while shaving.
[01:29.960 --> 01:31.860]  Now I can't make a call.
[01:32.720 --> 01:34.700]  We couldn't get much worse.
[01:35.300 --> 01:37.240]  But if they could, they would.
[01:40.830 --> 01:42.670]  I hope that's understood.
[01:42.870 --> 01:43.710]  But didn't it move?
[03:18.630 --> 03:19.590]  And a good evening to everybody.
[03:19.670 --> 03:20.490]  The program is Off the Hook.
[03:20.870 --> 03:25.690]  Manuel Goldstein here with you with a whole lot of people here on this pre-HOPE show.
[03:26.230 --> 03:27.730]  Our conference coming up this weekend.
[03:27.950 --> 03:29.770]  And we have a studio packed full of people.
[03:30.250 --> 03:30.850]  Oh my goodness.
[03:31.010 --> 03:33.150]  Why don't you all say hello at the same time?
[03:33.270 --> 03:34.030]  Let's get a sense of it.
[03:34.110 --> 03:34.270]  Ready?
[03:34.370 --> 03:35.010]  3, 2, 1.
[03:35.330 --> 03:35.650]  Hello!
[03:36.410 --> 03:36.730]  Wow.
[03:37.010 --> 03:38.990]  Oh, and Bernie, you're there on the phone.
[03:41.110 --> 03:44.310]  Well, I figured there wasn't room in the studio for me tonight, so I'm not there yet.
[03:44.310 --> 03:45.830]  But you are on your way here, aren't you?
[03:45.950 --> 03:47.070]  Well, I will be shortly.
[03:47.070 --> 03:48.730]  I plan to get there very late tonight.
[03:48.730 --> 03:52.790]  I just got home from work and I'm packing many things to take to the Fifth Hope Conference.
[03:52.870 --> 04:05.790]  You know, I had such problems getting out of the house to get into the city because, yeah, there's all kinds of things that have to be remembered and packed and then you forget things, you have to go back and, you know, all kinds of hecticness that happens in front of every conference.
[04:05.930 --> 04:06.730]  But, you know, it always works out.
[04:06.790 --> 04:09.690]  We always manage to get everything there one way or another.
[04:10.930 --> 04:13.690]  And, boy, it's quite a conference coming up this year.
[04:14.730 --> 04:21.070]  We have 70 different speakers, at least 70 different speakers, panels, and three different keynotes.
[04:21.890 --> 04:22.530]  It's unbelievable.
[04:23.490 --> 04:24.650]  Let's introduce some people.
[04:25.030 --> 04:30.130]  And let's see, you're going to have to share microphones because there's just so damn many of you.
[04:30.670 --> 04:32.290]  Cheshire Catalyst, is that you all the way over there?
[04:32.470 --> 04:33.090]  It sure is.
[04:33.170 --> 04:33.350]  How are you doing?
[04:33.350 --> 04:33.730]  Say hi.
[04:33.830 --> 04:34.310]  Let me shake your hand.
[04:36.070 --> 04:36.910]  Good to see you again, Manny.
[04:37.070 --> 04:38.230]  Yes, it's been a while.
[04:38.330 --> 04:38.770]  Two years, I guess.
[04:38.950 --> 04:39.410]  Two years, yes.
[04:39.750 --> 04:41.210]  So, welcome to New York again.
[04:41.210 --> 04:41.450]  Thank you.
[04:42.430 --> 04:44.770]  And tell us what you've been up to the last couple of years.
[04:45.010 --> 04:49.250]  Oh, well, for those who are at the conference, remember my diatribe, the day in the life of a directory assistance operator?
[04:49.390 --> 04:49.650]  Yes.
[04:49.650 --> 05:00.870]  Well, it worked because I was able to embarrass Verizon into the fact that they weren't listed in our directories, along with a number of other phone companies, because they never put their phone numbers in the white pages.
[05:01.470 --> 05:02.770]  Verizon is not listed in the directory?
[05:02.890 --> 05:03.490]  They weren't.
[05:03.710 --> 05:03.950]  Okay.
[05:04.430 --> 05:13.450]  And two weeks after I got back to work, about the time it takes for a local number to drift its way up to the National Book, where I and my 300 best friends lived, they were there.
[05:13.590 --> 05:14.230]  It was amazing.
[05:14.370 --> 05:18.930]  Do you mind if I give this a shot, though, just to test out if you really had an effect here?
[05:18.930 --> 05:20.050]  Oh, sure, let's get a shot.
[05:20.070 --> 05:21.430]  Okay, I'm going to call information right here.
[05:22.410 --> 05:23.130]  You got a dial tone?
[05:26.240 --> 05:27.000]  Let's see what we get.
[05:27.300 --> 05:28.380]  I'm going to ask for the business office.
[05:29.400 --> 05:30.720]  The Verizon business office.
[05:31.060 --> 05:31.220]  Okay.
[05:33.640 --> 05:34.620]  Because Aunt Millie is safe.
[05:37.440 --> 05:39.820]  Please dial one, then the area code...
[05:39.820 --> 05:40.600]  Oh, for God's sake.
[05:42.080 --> 05:43.360]  This is what we have to deal with.
[05:44.480 --> 05:45.100]  Oh, Spanish name.
[05:46.080 --> 05:46.440]  Okay.
[05:48.160 --> 05:49.440]  Oh, wow, that's good.
[05:50.220 --> 05:50.440]  Yes.
[05:50.840 --> 05:52.320]  That is Delta Pro Jeff.
[05:53.160 --> 05:53.900]  TTY tones.
[05:54.400 --> 05:55.080]  That's something.
[05:55.140 --> 05:57.000]  So now you get three things.
[05:57.100 --> 05:58.920]  You get English, you get Spanish, and you get TTY.
[05:59.300 --> 05:59.560]  Yes.
[06:00.380 --> 06:00.580]  All right.
[06:00.580 --> 06:01.340]  TDD in those...
[06:01.340 --> 06:02.380]  I've got to put people on hold.
[06:02.560 --> 06:05.200]  One wonders, of course, if the TDD is also bilingual.
[06:08.000 --> 06:09.140]  You can find that out.
[06:09.140 --> 06:10.200]  That is an interesting point.
[06:10.260 --> 06:13.480]  I'm going to have to put you on hold, Bernie, while I try to salvage this line over here.
[06:13.880 --> 06:15.060]  Okay, he's on hold now.
[06:15.340 --> 06:16.680]  This has to hang up.
[06:17.260 --> 06:18.000]  All right, that's gone.
[06:18.000 --> 06:19.820]  Uh, now Bernie is back.
[06:20.120 --> 06:21.140]  Those buttons are pressed.
[06:21.240 --> 06:21.960]  And we have a dial tone again.
[06:23.220 --> 06:23.740]  Do we?
[06:24.320 --> 06:24.700]  Yes.
[06:24.820 --> 06:26.340]  Okay, now we dial one plus the area code.
[06:28.120 --> 06:28.920]  And then...
[06:29.500 --> 06:30.300]  555-1212.
[06:30.440 --> 06:30.760]  2-1?
[06:30.960 --> 06:32.200]  Because 4-1-1 is blocked.
[06:32.580 --> 06:32.820]  Ah.
[06:32.820 --> 06:33.380]  Yeah.
[06:40.550 --> 06:42.400]  Verizon Nationwide 4-1-1.
[06:42.500 --> 06:42.640]  Oh.
[06:42.960 --> 06:44.340]  Make progress every day.
[06:45.200 --> 06:46.000]  Verizon business...
[06:46.000 --> 06:46.600]  What listings?
[06:47.040 --> 06:47.840]  Uh, Verizon.
[06:48.290 --> 06:49.200]  Business office.
[06:50.260 --> 06:50.850]  Thank you.
[06:51.000 --> 06:53.520]  Please wait while an operator looks for that number.
[06:53.760 --> 06:54.960]  But I thought this was the operator.
[06:55.480 --> 06:56.880]  Well, that's just Jane recording.
[06:57.290 --> 06:57.480]  Ah.
[06:57.560 --> 06:58.200]  Remember Jane Barbie?
[06:58.480 --> 06:58.790]  Yeah.
[06:59.100 --> 07:01.520]  Well, she still lives on in all the recordings she made.
[07:01.880 --> 07:02.220]  Wow.
[07:03.110 --> 07:03.880]  I almost met her.
[07:05.340 --> 07:06.460]  Sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt.
[07:06.460 --> 07:08.220]  For a home phone, business, or wireless?
[07:08.540 --> 07:09.200]  Home phone, please.
[07:09.610 --> 07:11.560]  Fortunately, the business office, they're closed now.
[07:11.720 --> 07:13.560]  I can give you the number to call for tomorrow if you like.
[07:13.720 --> 07:14.080]  That's fine.
[07:14.170 --> 07:14.780]  This is for tomorrow.
[07:14.960 --> 07:15.420]  I'm planning this.
[07:15.640 --> 07:15.850]  Thank you.
[07:16.920 --> 07:18.660]  The number is...
[07:18.660 --> 07:19.600]  Area code...
[07:19.600 --> 07:27.460]  2-1-2-8-9-0-1-5-5-5-0.
[07:28.200 --> 07:28.670]  Repeat.
[07:28.960 --> 07:30.110]  The number is...
[07:30.110 --> 07:31.340]  Area code...
[07:31.340 --> 07:35.520]  2-1-2-8-9-0.
[07:36.850 --> 07:39.110]  1-5-5-0.
[07:39.340 --> 07:40.230]  Want to get a live operator again?
[07:40.520 --> 07:41.230]  No, we won't.
[07:41.640 --> 07:41.960]  Okay.
[07:42.200 --> 07:44.140]  Well, you know, they have the whole 8-9-0 exchange.
[07:44.350 --> 07:45.600]  That's a phone company exchange.
[07:46.230 --> 07:48.580]  Which is a free call from pay funds, interestingly enough.
[07:48.660 --> 07:49.000]  It is.
[07:49.000 --> 07:50.170]  And 3-1-1 is not.
[07:50.850 --> 07:51.220]  Ooh.
[07:51.460 --> 07:51.580]  Yeah.
[07:51.660 --> 07:52.670]  Do you have 3-1-1 where you are?
[07:53.340 --> 07:54.020]  No, I'm not.
[07:54.640 --> 07:56.580]  3-1-1 kind of drifts around.
[07:56.780 --> 08:01.840]  We have a 2-1-1 in my part of Florida, which is a crisis intervention center.
[08:01.980 --> 08:02.160]  Mm-hmm.
[08:03.120 --> 08:05.460]  And there is one other one that's 5-1-1.
[08:05.560 --> 08:08.600]  We have 7-1-1, which is the TDD thing again.
[08:08.730 --> 08:11.200]  We have an interesting thing about 2-1-1 here in New York.
[08:11.340 --> 08:16.440]  For years, I've exploited it as another way to get credit for one's home phone.
[08:16.720 --> 08:18.070]  You could essentially...
[08:18.080 --> 08:19.220]  How many of you have exploited it?
[08:19.920 --> 08:20.960]  Well, all right.
[08:21.080 --> 08:24.780]  I may or may not have in the past exploited it.
[08:24.880 --> 08:26.720]  I would like to take the fifth at this point.
[08:27.660 --> 08:28.460]  Getting this down?
[08:28.640 --> 08:28.790]  Okay.
[08:28.920 --> 08:29.610]  We got a lot of witnesses here.
[08:29.610 --> 08:37.760]  Ten years ago, it would give you approximately 10 cents of credit each time you called it, which essentially meant you could reduce your home phone bill to zero.
[08:39.340 --> 08:46.600]  Eight years ago and less, it would give you one-tenth of that, like about nine-tenths of a cent each time you called it.
[08:46.760 --> 08:50.060]  So it would take you thousands of phone calls to bring your home phone down to zero.
[08:50.600 --> 08:55.760]  Now it tells you if you dial it to contact your operator for credit for a telephone call.
[08:56.200 --> 08:57.720]  So they're onto my scam.
[08:58.340 --> 09:01.040]  And the operator isn't going to fall for that kind of nonsense, is she?
[09:01.100 --> 09:02.760]  I was never a good social engineer.
[09:03.060 --> 09:03.790]  Rob, how are you doing?
[09:03.900 --> 09:05.600]  You're here, all the way from Amsterdam.
[09:05.960 --> 09:06.340]  Hey there.
[09:06.740 --> 09:09.040]  Remember, no cussing on the air because you're in America now.
[09:09.820 --> 09:10.100]  Yes, sir.
[09:10.220 --> 09:12.620]  I didn't warn you before the show, but I've got to warn you now.
[09:12.760 --> 09:14.480]  Because people from Amsterdam are always cussing.
[09:14.480 --> 09:15.940]  I'll try to do my best.
[09:16.060 --> 09:16.160]  All right.
[09:18.140 --> 09:19.220]  CFCC, I'm protecting.
[09:19.360 --> 09:21.060]  I'm protecting the listeners out there.
[09:22.020 --> 09:26.120]  So you're here for... is this your first visit since 2002?
[09:27.200 --> 09:27.780]  My goodness.
[09:27.940 --> 09:28.660]  I think it is, yeah.
[09:28.660 --> 09:28.960]  Wow.
[09:28.980 --> 09:30.140]  It's actually two years ago, too.
[09:30.290 --> 09:34.320]  I mean, I've seen you since then over in Europe, but God, you guys got to get to New York more often.
[09:34.980 --> 09:37.060]  What has changed in this country, in your eyes?
[09:37.280 --> 09:38.060]  Look the same to you?
[09:38.340 --> 09:48.980]  The funny thing was we traveled in and we feared it would be like total paranoia, total paranoia, total weirdness, every wrong look and you'd be out in Guantanamo Bay.
[09:50.520 --> 09:51.840]  It's beautiful this time of year.
[09:52.320 --> 09:52.600]  Yeah.
[09:53.240 --> 09:55.360]  We were sort of looking forward to the Caribbean.
[09:56.290 --> 09:59.420]  And then we came here and it was almost like pre-911.
[09:59.670 --> 10:04.660]  We got to the airport and the customs people, the INS people, they were sort of their...
[10:04.660 --> 10:05.840]  They weren't friendly, were they?
[10:05.960 --> 10:09.060]  No, they were sort of their grumpy, unhelpful self.
[10:09.260 --> 10:09.480]  Yeah.
[10:10.700 --> 10:12.260]  None of the craziness.
[10:12.820 --> 10:20.900]  And if it wasn't for the fact that I knew that come September, foreigners like me will be fingerprinted and photographed and all this stuff.
[10:21.380 --> 10:24.740]  If it wasn't for that, you'd think things were sort of returning to normal.
[10:25.740 --> 10:26.140]  Wow.
[10:26.340 --> 10:27.780]  That's an interesting perspective.
[10:27.780 --> 10:32.500]  A slight correction to make, of course, you did not talk to the INS, but the Department of Homeland Security.
[10:33.420 --> 10:34.400]  Well, yeah.
[10:34.660 --> 10:36.520]  Whatever the call goes, sells this week, yes.
[10:36.840 --> 10:37.000]  Yeah.
[10:37.120 --> 10:37.720]  Where's Barry?
[10:37.820 --> 10:38.660]  Barry this year, the key.
[10:38.860 --> 10:41.620]  He came with you as well from Holland.
[10:41.840 --> 10:42.200]  Hi there.
[10:42.300 --> 10:42.680]  How you doing?
[10:42.980 --> 10:43.340]  I'm fine.
[10:43.460 --> 10:50.140]  And you're going to be leading the lockpicking seminar and workshop at the convention coming up this weekend.
[10:50.400 --> 10:50.640]  Uh-huh.
[10:50.640 --> 10:54.160]  And, uh, were your impressions coming into the country the same as Rob's?
[10:54.420 --> 10:54.960]  Yeah, absolutely.
[10:55.540 --> 11:00.940]  Uh, uh, very unhelpful, uh, getting into the country, but, uh...
[11:00.940 --> 11:02.200]  It's an improvement.
[11:02.520 --> 11:03.540]  It definitely is an improvement.
[11:03.660 --> 11:07.920]  Well, uh, fortunately they didn't check my bag because I would have had some explaining to do.
[11:08.400 --> 11:12.860]  I had 15 kilograms of pure steel locks with me.
[11:13.040 --> 11:13.320]  Wow.
[11:13.660 --> 11:15.080]  I guess it is kind of hard to explain.
[11:15.280 --> 11:15.560]  Yes.
[11:16.120 --> 11:21.740]  Not to mention, uh, the amount of tools and special gadgets that I brought with me to open lock.
[11:21.860 --> 11:24.780]  So, I was, I was lucky to, to slip through, I guess.
[11:25.100 --> 11:28.680]  Uh, uh, I would have had some explaining, uh, explaining to do.
[11:28.740 --> 11:30.740]  What did that look like going through the metal detector, though, on the way in?
[11:31.300 --> 11:32.620]  Uh, no, they, they didn't.
[11:33.160 --> 11:34.340]  Well, they, they didn't.
[11:34.400 --> 11:35.480]  Oh, it was check, check baggage.
[11:36.380 --> 11:38.780]  Is that, uh, I'm just curious what it looked like going through the x-ray machine.
[11:39.780 --> 11:41.880]  I, I, uh, it, it was not in my hand luggage.
[11:42.080 --> 11:42.260]  Okay.
[11:42.620 --> 11:44.220]  Yeah, I guess it would be kind of heavy to carry.
[11:44.460 --> 11:44.600]  Uh-huh.
[11:44.660 --> 11:44.920]  Oh, yeah.
[11:45.120 --> 11:45.400]  Wow.
[11:45.560 --> 11:48.140]  So, uh, this is your first time here since, uh, last time?
[11:48.400 --> 11:48.580]  Yes.
[11:49.240 --> 11:49.360]  Yeah.
[11:49.520 --> 11:50.300]  Same, same as Rob.
[11:50.760 --> 11:53.960]  But I'm looking forward to the lockpick panel and also a little bit daring.
[11:54.340 --> 11:58.160]  Uh, I'm going to teach people, uh, lockpicking, uh, during the conference.
[11:58.420 --> 12:07.800]  Well, tell us, for those, uh, naysayers out there who think that, uh, the only reason to learn about lockpicking is to break into locks and, and, and steal and rob and, and, you know, cause all kinds of mayhem.
[12:08.040 --> 12:09.080]  What's it really all about?
[12:09.420 --> 12:12.300]  Uh, for us, it's, it's a sport and it's a very serious sport.
[12:12.620 --> 12:14.380]  Uh, people practice a lot, people train a lot.
[12:15.180 --> 12:21.600]  And, um, yeah, people spend a lot of time analyzing locks and, and learning all the tricks to open them.
[12:21.740 --> 12:27.040]  And, um, I will explain at, at the conference, uh, at what level we're at now.
[12:27.040 --> 12:31.700]  Uh, but we're at the level of finding exploits in locks, sort of as like in, in computers.
[12:31.980 --> 12:43.420]  But we found some, some exploits in locks that could, um, an, an, an untrained person could open a specific type of lock within three to five seconds without any training whatsoever.
[12:44.260 --> 12:47.620]  And, uh, and the lock would be opened without, uh, any forensic evidence.
[12:48.020 --> 12:53.120]  So, this really was, um, a very, very severe, uh, bug in, in the lock.
[12:53.660 --> 12:53.880]  Wow.
[12:53.900 --> 13:04.000]  And, uh, it, it, it, it forced the, the, the company, uh, it forced the company to, uh, shut down the factory for a few days and, uh, get their act together and, and get a lot of locks back from the store.
[13:05.220 --> 13:07.460]  Have you ever run into a lock you could not pick?
[13:07.720 --> 13:08.180]  Oh, yeah.
[13:08.740 --> 13:09.480]  Yeah, there's many.
[13:10.020 --> 13:11.400]  What, what are some of the better ones?
[13:11.920 --> 13:13.600]  Um, yeah.
[13:14.200 --> 13:20.780]  I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm not, uh, advocating locks because locks that I can't open now, uh, three months later I can, so.
[13:20.960 --> 13:21.060]  Uh.
[13:21.460 --> 13:21.640]  Yeah.
[13:22.700 --> 13:24.740]  That, that, that really happens a lot, you know.
[13:24.860 --> 13:28.300]  A lock comes out and you think, oh my God, how, how is this ever going to be picked?
[13:28.500 --> 13:36.260]  And three months later somebody spent three months thinking about it and then it seems very obvious that, uh, yeah, that, that, that, that there's always a weak spot.
[13:36.380 --> 13:38.540]  Has, has a medico ever been, uh, been picked?
[13:40.020 --> 13:40.420]  Sorry.
[13:40.640 --> 13:42.140]  Supposedly medicos are unpickable.
[13:42.280 --> 13:42.900]  Is that, is that true?
[13:43.180 --> 13:53.300]  Um, well, last time I was here two years ago, I asked people specifically to bring locks and somebody brought me two medicos and I was able to pick them and I will try to pick one on stage.
[13:53.980 --> 13:54.380]  Wow.
[13:54.600 --> 13:55.920]  To demonstrate it can be done.
[13:57.060 --> 13:57.860]  Um, oh.
[13:58.000 --> 13:59.020]  Excuse me, I gotta take this.
[13:59.360 --> 14:00.340]  It's my busy season.
[14:00.580 --> 14:02.840]  Should, uh, should we have people bring locks?
[14:02.920 --> 14:03.340]  Yeah.
[14:03.840 --> 14:04.220]  Oh, please.
[14:04.380 --> 14:04.980]  Yes, please do.
[14:05.180 --> 14:09.440]  And, and I, I can give it a try and I can see, uh, if it's any good.
[14:10.520 --> 14:20.480]  So you'll be, uh, you'll be, uh, not only giving a, a lecture on lock-creating, but also you'll have an area where people can come and learn how to pick locks themselves.
[14:20.760 --> 14:21.060]  Correct.
[14:21.080 --> 14:29.220]  I will be at the table with eight or ten people at a time and I will teach these people, um, what are the techniques used to open locks.
[14:29.680 --> 14:31.300]  And yeah, this is what I will teach.
[14:32.920 --> 14:35.380]  Are you inviting people to bring, uh, different kinds of locks?
[14:35.760 --> 14:36.880]  Oh, please, please do, yes.
[14:37.100 --> 14:43.820]  If, if you have a lock and you think, can it be picked or can it be bypassed, uh, please bring it along and I can at least tell you what I think about it.
[14:43.820 --> 14:46.680]  Uh, and also I'm not doing the lockpick panel alone.
[14:46.880 --> 14:50.300]  Uh, I've got some very respected, uh, people who come along.
[14:50.500 --> 14:57.480]  Uh, there's Matt Blaze who found a, uh, vulnerability in master key systems, uh, I think one year ago.
[14:57.980 --> 15:03.680]  Uh, and, uh, this really, uh, yeah, brought up a lot of, uh, problems with the lock industry.
[15:03.680 --> 15:16.200]  They even, uh, the, the locksmiths of America even posted his, uh, personal, uh, address, his home address on the website saying, I hope this guy has got good locks on his door on 10th Avenue or whatever it was.
[15:16.300 --> 15:30.060]  Yeah, they, they really were unhappy that he, that he told the public that if you have a master key system and you lend somebody a key to go to the toilet, that with a little practice, this person could, uh, could make a key that would open any door in,
[15:30.060 --> 15:30.880]  in a complete building.
[15:31.600 --> 15:31.860]  Really?
[15:32.140 --> 15:32.420]  Really.
[15:32.540 --> 15:34.140]  So any master lock, in other words?
[15:34.400 --> 15:35.780]  Any master key lock.
[15:36.000 --> 15:40.720]  So that means that you have one key that can open 10 doors and you have one key that can only open one door.
[15:41.140 --> 15:50.920]  If you give me the key to the, to the lock that will only open one door, uh, with little effort, um, I can make a master key out of it to open all the doors in the system.
[15:53.960 --> 15:54.400]  Wow.
[15:54.400 --> 15:55.520]  That is amazing.
[15:55.660 --> 16:00.160]  For the person who has absolutely no knowledge of locks, will they find the lock picking panel interesting?
[16:00.380 --> 16:01.140]  I think so, yeah.
[16:01.240 --> 16:01.660]  I think so.
[16:02.720 --> 16:05.200]  It's always... people seem to like it.
[16:05.600 --> 16:08.280]  Especially people with no knowledge of locks find it interesting.
[16:08.520 --> 16:08.820]  Why is that?
[16:09.300 --> 16:14.820]  Because they come in and they see all these locks which they think are completely unpickable.
[16:15.420 --> 16:18.020]  All these locks with little dimples and little things.
[16:18.160 --> 16:20.580]  They know that all these normal looking keys can be picked.
[16:20.580 --> 16:21.800]  Or they've sort of learned that.
[16:22.000 --> 16:26.860]  And then they see all these magic looking keys and locks and things they've learned to respect as holy.
[16:27.720 --> 16:31.600]  And all of a sudden all these keys with little thingies on them that move.
[16:31.760 --> 16:34.680]  And keys that have little dimples and crap on the side.
[16:34.900 --> 16:35.860]  And they all open.
[16:36.560 --> 16:37.040]  Wow.
[16:37.600 --> 16:38.820]  It's a learning experience.
[16:38.820 --> 16:47.720]  And because we got so many... and we also got Mark Tobias, who's also a very respected person in the locksmithing industry.
[16:48.460 --> 16:51.300]  He's also going to explain about this master key vulnerability.
[16:51.720 --> 16:54.320]  And there were some locks that supposedly were safe.
[16:54.560 --> 16:57.220]  But he also found a way to exploit them.
[16:58.480 --> 17:01.440]  So there's always people out there looking for ways to exploit these things.
[17:01.580 --> 17:02.380]  I mean, it is... Absolutely.
[17:02.500 --> 17:08.200]  It is very much a form of hacking because it's... you're looking for the security holes and you're telling people when you find them.
[17:08.340 --> 17:08.960]  Yes, we do.
[17:09.140 --> 17:11.940]  And that's why we are the open organization of lock pickers.
[17:12.100 --> 17:13.820]  Because we're quite open of what we do.
[17:14.540 --> 17:21.210]  And then it's the closed association of locksmiths that don't want you to do that and try and intimidate you into not revealing...
[17:21.700 --> 17:23.100]  I hope they're not showing up.
[17:23.300 --> 17:23.400]  Yeah.
[17:23.730 --> 17:29.470]  But... but anyway, the panel is this time going to be special because it's going to be for two hours.
[17:29.640 --> 17:29.750]  Yes.
[17:29.780 --> 17:32.660]  And I think even that is going to be short out of time.
[17:32.660 --> 17:34.540]  So people really should visit that.
[17:34.700 --> 17:38.300]  We expanded it to two hours because of the difficulty moving people out of the space last time.
[17:38.940 --> 17:47.010]  So we thought that we could avoid that by having more time for them to, you know, learn about locks and try things out.
[17:47.100 --> 17:49.990]  And of course, there'll be the lock picking workshop going on downstairs throughout.
[17:50.300 --> 17:50.640]  Absolutely.
[17:50.640 --> 17:51.990]  And that's really cool.
[17:52.160 --> 17:54.800]  If you've never seen one of those, I've seen them in Germany.
[17:54.800 --> 17:55.560]  I've seen them in Holland.
[17:56.180 --> 17:57.660]  Redhack, you were there for that, weren't you?
[17:57.750 --> 17:57.990]  Yeah, no.
[17:58.040 --> 18:02.620]  It was really impressive just seeing that they had basically a bunch of locks, people sitting around trying their hand.
[18:03.080 --> 18:04.080]  I tried my hand.
[18:04.210 --> 18:04.780]  I failed.
[18:04.940 --> 18:05.750]  I didn't really...
[18:05.750 --> 18:06.730]  Well, you won't fail this time.
[18:06.730 --> 18:08.960]  We're going to make it our business to see that you pick a lock.
[18:09.460 --> 18:11.860]  But, you know, it really is... it really isn't...
[18:11.860 --> 18:17.900]  You know, there's people... there were just people in Germany sitting around who were doing exactly what Barry was describing.
[18:17.900 --> 18:21.400]  You know, they already knew how to do lots of things, and they were just playing with something new.
[18:21.540 --> 18:23.320]  And it was really, you know, it was cool to see.
[18:23.540 --> 18:25.100]  And it's not done for criminal purposes.
[18:25.320 --> 18:28.880]  People don't go out and then immediately start breaking into apartments and things like that.
[18:28.900 --> 18:31.010]  This is done for knowledge, for...
[18:31.010 --> 18:32.010]  The intellectual challenge.
[18:32.180 --> 18:33.120]  The intellectual challenge.
[18:33.900 --> 18:35.060]  Designing a better lock, perhaps.
[18:35.380 --> 18:36.040]  All kinds of things.
[18:36.440 --> 18:36.660]  Hey, man.
[18:36.700 --> 18:37.300]  It's really pretty cool.
[18:37.300 --> 18:37.680]  Yes, Bernie.
[18:37.990 --> 18:52.700]  I want to point out that we, for this conference, we've obtained a special high-resolution camera so that the entire audience will be able to actually look inside the keyways of these locks as Larry and Matt are manipulating them.
[18:52.710 --> 18:56.970]  So everybody in the audience will be able to see exactly what's going on.
[18:57.060 --> 18:58.720]  It makes it a very enjoyable experience.
[18:58.940 --> 19:00.620]  Is this like nanotechnology or something?
[19:00.800 --> 19:02.960]  It's sort of the kind of camera that can go into the lock itself?
[19:02.960 --> 19:07.380]  Well, not down to the molecule level, but you'll actually be able to see the actual...
[19:07.920 --> 19:08.760]  Well, I'm disappointed.
[19:08.960 --> 19:11.180]  I was looking forward to going down into the molecule.
[19:11.420 --> 19:11.940]  Oh, well.
[19:12.060 --> 19:12.440]  Next time.
[19:13.500 --> 19:14.140]  So, Emmanuel.
[19:14.420 --> 19:14.600]  Yes.
[19:14.680 --> 19:20.540]  I think we should probably explain to some listeners exactly what conference we're talking about, how to register, and where we're going to be and when.
[19:20.700 --> 19:21.160]  That's a good idea.
[19:21.160 --> 19:22.540]  And you know how you might find that out?
[19:22.620 --> 19:24.880]  By looking in the Village Voice and Time Out New York.
[19:25.620 --> 19:25.800]  That's true.
[19:25.800 --> 19:26.340]  And the Independent.
[19:27.080 --> 19:28.300]  Page 53, perhaps.
[19:28.480 --> 19:28.980]  Oh, my goodness.
[19:29.040 --> 19:29.440]  Look at this.
[19:29.520 --> 19:29.980]  Look at this.
[19:30.040 --> 19:32.680]  There's a picture of Kevin Mitnick, one of our keynote speakers.
[19:33.780 --> 19:35.260]  Who's referred to as a webmaster.
[19:36.460 --> 19:38.800]  I don't think he is, but okay, fine.
[19:38.960 --> 19:40.120]  You know, he certainly could be.
[19:40.880 --> 19:41.480]  Let's see.
[19:41.640 --> 19:43.460]  Forget August's approaching elephants.
[19:43.840 --> 19:44.520]  What does that mean?
[19:44.780 --> 19:45.360]  Probably something.
[19:45.360 --> 19:46.520]  The Republican Convention?
[19:46.620 --> 19:47.280]  Oh, of course.
[19:47.540 --> 19:48.140]  Stupid me.
[19:48.840 --> 19:50.080]  I called them something else.
[19:50.280 --> 19:51.980]  You've clearly forgotten them already.
[19:52.380 --> 19:54.440]  Well, I don't refer to them in such affectionate terms.
[19:55.160 --> 19:57.000]  The real giants are in Midtown next week.
[19:57.060 --> 19:57.340]  Oh, wait.
[19:57.340 --> 19:58.160]  The real giants.
[19:58.380 --> 19:59.420]  Not the football giants.
[19:59.560 --> 20:00.400]  The real giants.
[20:00.940 --> 20:03.580]  We're in Midtown next week for the Hacker's Ball.
[20:04.020 --> 20:05.180]  A two-day.
[20:05.780 --> 20:06.340]  Two-day.
[20:06.420 --> 20:07.220]  They cut a day off.
[20:07.520 --> 20:10.680]  No, this is a three-day warm-up of gigantic...
[20:10.680 --> 20:14.620]  I'm sorry, of resistance and intrigue in the weirdly gigantic Pennsylvania Hotel.
[20:14.960 --> 20:16.300]  Actually, it's the Hotel Pennsylvania.
[20:16.580 --> 20:17.520]  Boy, this...
[20:17.520 --> 20:19.560]  It's a short story, but so many things are wrong.
[20:20.200 --> 20:22.920]  They're not major things, but yeah, three days, not two days.
[20:23.660 --> 20:27.260]  And also, you can register starting tomorrow at noon at the hotel.
[20:28.040 --> 20:38.360]  You won't be able to go in unless you're one of the volunteers helping us set up, but you can go to the Hotel Pennsylvania at 701 7th Avenue right across the street from...
[20:38.360 --> 20:38.800]  401.
[20:39.280 --> 20:40.240]  I'm sorry, 401.
[20:40.520 --> 20:41.080]  Where's my head?
[20:41.260 --> 20:43.860]  401 7th Avenue right across the street from Penn Station.
[20:44.680 --> 20:47.920]  And starting at 12, you can just walk into the door right there.
[20:47.960 --> 20:49.460]  You'll see the signs, and you can register.
[20:49.640 --> 20:51.720]  And then attend starting Friday, going all the way into Sunday.
[20:53.680 --> 20:55.180]  Let's see what else they say here.
[20:55.260 --> 21:00.500]  Keynote speakers include Apple's Steve Wozniak, the original...
[21:02.340 --> 21:03.120]  Phone freak.
[21:03.340 --> 21:12.280]  Yeah, phone freaker, Kevin Mitnick, convicted celebrity hacker, and Jello Biafra, originally Eric Bausher of Boulder, Colorado.
[21:12.520 --> 21:16.040]  Okay, I guess they had to give his real name and address for some reason.
[21:16.540 --> 21:21.700]  The Fifth Hope, thrown by the folks at 2600, the Hacker Quarterly, features...
[21:21.720 --> 21:33.460]  There's workshops that are lightly naughty, mischief and mayhem at the RNC, for instance, and potentially felonious, lockpicking, described as a popular sport slash hobby among hackers throughout the world.
[21:33.640 --> 21:34.020]  Well, gee whiz.
[21:34.120 --> 21:34.920]  See, this is what happens.
[21:35.120 --> 21:35.380]  This is...
[21:36.220 --> 21:36.740]  Unbelievable.
[21:37.920 --> 21:38.180]  Uh...
[21:38.180 --> 21:38.420]  So...
[21:38.420 --> 21:39.680]  Irresponsible journalism, right?
[21:39.980 --> 21:40.280]  Yeah.
[21:40.640 --> 21:43.080]  Well, at least it teaches us not to trust the media.
[21:43.340 --> 21:43.560]  Right.
[21:43.560 --> 21:44.100]  Yeah.
[21:45.060 --> 21:47.540]  More information, www.hope.net.
[21:48.300 --> 21:52.040]  And I guess there's nothing else really, really too wrong.
[21:52.200 --> 21:53.860]  Although there's something funny about this.
[21:54.020 --> 21:59.140]  There's a line here that says, the gatherings draw feds, teenagers, and corporate spies.
[22:00.320 --> 22:05.340]  I had a conversation with the person who was doing this article, in fact, last week for the Village Voice.
[22:05.640 --> 22:07.560]  And we had one conversation last Tuesday.
[22:07.560 --> 22:09.540]  I was in a building where the reception was pretty bad.
[22:09.540 --> 22:12.280]  And, you know, I wasn't sure he was hearing everything I was saying.
[22:12.460 --> 22:20.540]  I was describing Steve Rambam and his talk of private eyes and how he's able to get information on anybody.
[22:20.540 --> 22:21.820]  By the way, he did find a victim.
[22:21.980 --> 22:27.240]  He did find somebody who was on the show a few weeks ago looking for somebody who he could expose completely and find all kinds of information about.
[22:27.340 --> 22:28.100]  He's found somebody.
[22:28.260 --> 22:31.820]  And on Saturday afternoon, he's going to reveal that along with many other things.
[22:32.260 --> 22:37.840]  But I was talking about how he tracks down deadbeats and war criminals and people like that.
[22:38.260 --> 22:48.540]  And, unfortunately, something must have dropped out in the connection because the way the article originally read said something to the effect of the gathering draws feds, teenagers, corporate spies, deadbeats, and war criminals.
[22:50.560 --> 22:55.500]  And he was very happy to talk to me again so that I was able to correct that and not let it go into the paper that way.
[22:55.560 --> 22:56.980]  But I see how these things happen.
[22:57.080 --> 22:59.460]  Most of the error is probably a result of the phone, you know.
[23:00.060 --> 23:00.780]  Bad reception.
[23:01.160 --> 23:02.860]  Can't blame everything on the phone company.
[23:02.860 --> 23:03.800]  No, but it's fun to try.
[23:03.920 --> 23:06.240]  Sometimes the Village Voice is really just that inept.
[23:06.400 --> 23:07.760]  So we also have, what, time out in New York?
[23:07.840 --> 23:08.600]  Time out in New York.
[23:08.900 --> 23:09.060]  Want to read that one?
[23:10.980 --> 23:11.460]  Go ahead.
[23:11.560 --> 23:11.960]  No, he can read it.
[23:11.980 --> 23:12.760]  I was going to read it.
[23:13.000 --> 23:13.160]  Okay.
[23:13.260 --> 23:17.240]  It's on page 8 of people who are following along at home.
[23:17.520 --> 23:17.700]  All right.
[23:17.760 --> 23:17.920]  Go ahead.
[23:18.220 --> 23:20.060]  A Place Called Hope is the title.
[23:20.200 --> 23:21.040]  A Place Called Hope?
[23:21.080 --> 23:21.920]  A Place Called Hope.
[23:21.980 --> 23:22.320]  All right.
[23:22.600 --> 23:23.440]  In search of good...
[23:23.440 --> 23:23.760]  Wait, wait.
[23:23.760 --> 23:24.460]  You know what that is?
[23:24.540 --> 23:28.540]  That's a reference to Clinton's acceptance speech at the Democratic Convention.
[23:29.240 --> 23:30.920]  Originally, he talked about A Place Called Hope.
[23:30.960 --> 23:33.360]  I know, because we played that speech at the first Hope.
[23:33.500 --> 23:34.080]  Hope Arkansas.
[23:34.080 --> 23:36.280]  That's how we stopped the conference, in fact.
[23:36.440 --> 23:39.600]  And we even played the Fleetwood Mac song they played right after that as well.
[23:39.700 --> 23:43.320]  Well, in this case, Hope is in all capital letters, so they must be talking about it.
[23:43.320 --> 23:46.060]  Well, when they're yelling it down there, it's in all caps too, but go ahead.
[23:46.060 --> 23:50.500]  Anyway, in search of good, clean fun, look no further, the Hacker Convention is in town.
[23:50.640 --> 23:51.640]  Wait a minute, good, clean fun?
[23:51.780 --> 23:52.420]  That's what it says.
[23:52.440 --> 23:53.780]  It's going to ruin our reputation that way.
[23:54.400 --> 24:12.240]  The country's largest gathering of fans and purveyors of the misunderstood art of technological wizardry, Fifth Hope, the aptly titled Fifth Assemblage of Hackers on Planet Earth, is taking over the Pennsylvania Hotel Friday 9 through Sunday 11, hoping to draw technophiles and curious onlookers alike.
[24:12.660 --> 24:20.080]  And you needn't attend under an alias, lest some proto-geek gleefully empty your bank account during a bathroom break.
[24:20.540 --> 24:28.400]  According to Fifth Hope director and founder-editor of venerable hackerzine 2600, Emmanuel Goldstein, those fears are all media hype.
[24:29.400 --> 24:31.640]  Hackers come from all different backgrounds, he says.
[24:32.080 --> 24:33.560]  Benjamin Franklin was a hacker.
[24:33.760 --> 24:35.160]  People who explore mountains are hackers.
[24:35.460 --> 24:38.140]  You don't have to mess with computers or phones to be a hacker.
[24:38.220 --> 24:38.700]  I said that.
[24:38.840 --> 24:39.460]  I did say that.
[24:39.460 --> 24:43.260]  I was walking through Tompkins Square Park on my phone and I was getting good reception and I said that.
[24:43.440 --> 24:45.600]  Did you say be hacker or be a hacker?
[24:45.820 --> 24:46.600]  I didn't say that.
[24:47.140 --> 24:47.540]  What?
[24:47.680 --> 24:48.700]  That might have been when I was on the bus.
[24:49.060 --> 24:49.360]  Okay.
[24:49.620 --> 24:51.820]  Well, I think they missed the word a.
[24:52.640 --> 24:52.880]  Hmm.
[24:52.900 --> 24:53.240]  Oh, well.
[24:53.400 --> 24:53.740]  Anyway.
[24:53.860 --> 24:54.660]  I do say that a lot.
[24:54.820 --> 24:55.000]  Yeah.
[24:55.140 --> 24:55.640]  The a part.
[24:56.220 --> 25:01.380]  A quick glance at the list of more than 70 hope sessions might make one doubt Goldstein's assertion.
[25:01.560 --> 25:14.460]  For example, bypassing corporate restrictions from the inside, hacking national intelligence, but surprisingly proactive political themes abound, such as blogging at the Democratic National Convention and the enticing mischief and mayhem at the RNC.
[25:14.800 --> 25:20.700]  And an array of intellectual and artistic curiosities offset the deep tech and political keyboard rattling sessions.
[25:20.960 --> 25:26.040]  There's a talk about propaganda in art and media and a presentation on the practice of urban exploring.
[25:26.040 --> 25:33.720]  Basically researching and sneaking into cool old buildings, subway tunnels, industrial sites, and the like, then documenting them with photos and video.
[25:34.100 --> 25:39.880]  The most anticipated event of the conference is the Friday keynote speech by notorious hacker Kevin Mitnick.
[25:40.220 --> 25:45.800]  Like Goldstein, Mitnick is concerned with defending hackers' good name, though he's a somewhat more controversial source.
[25:45.980 --> 25:50.140]  Mitnick served nearly five years in jail for hacking, eight months of that in solitary.
[25:51.120 --> 25:52.620]  Oh, no, no, no, that's wrong, too.
[25:52.860 --> 25:56.380]  He served the eight months in solitary in his previous prison term.
[25:57.480 --> 25:59.000]  Oh, man, I got to retract that.
[25:59.120 --> 25:59.520]  All right, go ahead.
[25:59.680 --> 25:59.760]  Yeah.
[26:00.300 --> 26:04.540]  After being banned from using the internet until last year, he's finally making an appearance at Hope.
[26:05.140 --> 26:09.960]  People hear hacker conference, he says, and they think of it as a pejorative, that we're criminals.
[26:10.220 --> 26:11.200]  But for Mitnick...
[26:11.200 --> 26:12.260]  I didn't say pejorative.
[26:12.880 --> 26:13.960]  I don't use that word.
[26:14.040 --> 26:14.820]  Mitnick said it.
[26:14.880 --> 26:15.400]  Oh, I'm sorry.
[26:15.960 --> 26:16.740]  I lost track.
[26:16.740 --> 26:17.460]  You're not him.
[26:17.640 --> 26:17.960]  All right.
[26:17.960 --> 26:20.540]  But for Mitnick hacking, it's just wholesome family fun.
[26:20.880 --> 26:23.860]  I'm actually flying out my mother, grandmother, and girlfriend, he says.
[26:24.000 --> 26:25.600]  We're all going to a hacker convention.
[26:26.480 --> 26:26.960]  That's right.
[26:27.020 --> 26:27.800]  So, New York, beware.
[26:28.000 --> 26:28.180]  Yeah.
[26:28.460 --> 26:29.520]  The Mitnicks are in town.
[26:29.780 --> 26:34.040]  And there's a photograph of him with the caption, Hack Daddy.
[26:34.440 --> 26:34.660]  Yeah.
[26:36.100 --> 26:37.580]  Well, at least he's not a webmaster there.
[26:37.840 --> 26:38.020]  No.
[26:38.760 --> 26:42.580]  Okay, so that should bring out quite a lot of people to the conference over the weekend.
[26:42.580 --> 26:44.660]  Local people, which is good, because the hotel is full.
[26:45.080 --> 26:46.680]  So you need to find your own place to stay.
[26:46.680 --> 26:46.700]  Okay.
[26:48.020 --> 26:49.980]  But that's really kind of cool.
[26:51.700 --> 26:55.080]  We probably don't want to read it, but there's also an article in The Independent.
[26:56.110 --> 26:57.680]  Well, is it online somewhere?
[26:57.780 --> 26:59.060]  Maybe we can guide people to it.
[26:59.880 --> 27:05.120]  If you search for The Fifth Hope in news.google.com, it'll be an article that comes up.
[27:05.300 --> 27:06.440]  It's like the only one, actually.
[27:06.620 --> 27:08.200]  Speaking of Google, should we get into this?
[27:08.200 --> 27:10.960]  We posted a story today about something that happened with Google.
[27:11.080 --> 27:17.700]  Mike, since you're familiar with what's going on here, maybe just a quick side note to that, then we'll get back into conference news.
[27:17.860 --> 27:18.740]  It's kind of important.
[27:18.840 --> 27:19.620]  We should touch upon it.
[27:20.620 --> 27:21.020]  Sure.
[27:21.260 --> 27:25.600]  So a value jet plane crashed in Florida several years ago.
[27:25.760 --> 27:26.560]  Into the swamp, yeah.
[27:26.800 --> 27:27.680]  It's not good.
[27:27.840 --> 27:28.040]  No.
[27:28.180 --> 27:33.200]  And so they renamed themselves to AirTran in some kind of attempt to disassociate themselves.
[27:34.080 --> 27:35.680]  And somehow we're getting blamed for the whole thing.
[27:35.780 --> 27:36.000]  Right.
[27:36.000 --> 27:37.680]  Well, it is our fault, after all.
[27:39.340 --> 27:43.840]  But so someone at the time, I guess, hacked into the value jet website.
[27:44.140 --> 27:44.600]  No, wait, wait.
[27:44.720 --> 27:47.020]  At the time, meaning the time after the plane crashed.
[27:47.280 --> 27:47.520]  Right, right, right.
[27:47.520 --> 27:48.560]  After the company was...
[27:48.560 --> 27:52.460]  We had nothing to do with anything like that, and hacking a website does not make planes crash.
[27:52.660 --> 27:52.920]  No.
[27:53.100 --> 27:54.680]  Unless your company is really badly run.
[27:55.900 --> 27:57.580]  Which, in their case, well...
[27:57.580 --> 27:57.860]  All right.
[27:58.000 --> 28:04.200]  Anyway, hacked into the AirTran website and changed it to talk about the value jet crash.
[28:04.870 --> 28:08.780]  On 2600.com, you can see a mirror of the hacked site.
[28:08.780 --> 28:09.740]  We didn't hack it.
[28:09.920 --> 28:10.080]  No.
[28:10.140 --> 28:14.040]  All we did was capture it by going to it and saving the image.
[28:14.560 --> 28:15.320]  That's all we did.
[28:15.440 --> 28:15.960]  That's all we did.
[28:16.020 --> 28:17.240]  And we preserved it for history.
[28:17.260 --> 28:20.220]  So future generations could also get a chuckle out of it.
[28:20.280 --> 28:21.120]  We do that often.
[28:21.380 --> 28:21.660]  Yes.
[28:21.780 --> 28:22.620]  We've done it before.
[28:22.620 --> 28:23.320]  We'll do it again.
[28:23.480 --> 28:24.640]  We're just the messenger.
[28:24.840 --> 28:25.960]  We're the news media here.
[28:26.120 --> 28:26.860]  We're the librarians.
[28:27.040 --> 28:27.580]  We're the archivists.
[28:27.680 --> 28:29.460]  We're the people that preserve history.
[28:29.980 --> 28:39.380]  And we preserved not only the hacked website, and not only that, but we also preserved the original site.
[28:39.380 --> 28:41.140]  So that people could see what it looked like.
[28:41.280 --> 28:41.380]  Right.
[28:41.380 --> 28:43.300]  So, okay, what's the big deal?
[28:44.020 --> 28:50.160]  Well, Airtrion, I guess, doesn't want people to know about all these shenanigans.
[28:50.360 --> 29:10.580]  So they sent a letter to Google saying, under the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, the DMCA, a friend of ours, Google may not link to our site, or to that section of the site, which shows the Airtran information.
[29:11.140 --> 29:26.080]  So if you search for Airtran on 2600, you will get fewer hits than you otherwise might, and you'll get a little note at the bottom saying, due to the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, we are unable to link you to all the sites that might come up otherwise.
[29:26.200 --> 29:27.400]  Is Airtran one word or two?
[29:27.720 --> 29:30.380]  Airtran is one word with two capital letters.
[29:30.380 --> 29:31.800]  Okay, that doesn't matter to Google.
[29:31.900 --> 29:34.800]  So I'm going to search for Airtran and 2600 and see what comes up.
[29:34.820 --> 29:40.640]  And you also Google that phrase saying, due to the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, we are unable to.
[29:40.680 --> 29:48.080]  If you Google that phrase, I wonder how many hits you get or how many times you find that those sites were blocked.
[29:48.320 --> 29:53.480]  Really, you should actually get no hits if you Google, due to the Millennium Copyright Act.
[29:53.640 --> 29:58.400]  Well, what I get is the first hit is, Airtran Airways requests Google takedown at 2600.com on chilling.
[30:01.100 --> 30:02.860]  On chillingeffects.org.
[30:02.980 --> 30:03.340]  Yeah.
[30:03.620 --> 30:05.300]  Tell us about chillingeffects.org.
[30:05.480 --> 30:18.360]  Chillingeffects.org is a website run by the EFF and some law schools and I forget who else, where they kind of have an archive of all these DMCA and other cease and desist letters.
[30:18.980 --> 30:19.320]  Okay.
[30:19.680 --> 30:26.700]  And then there's a couple of... Actually, there is a link to hacked files slash value jet right there on Google.
[30:26.840 --> 30:27.940]  Yeah, they didn't do a very good job.
[30:28.040 --> 30:28.260]  No.
[30:28.520 --> 30:29.620]  In fact, there's two of those.
[30:29.660 --> 30:34.940]  And then right after that is a link to something concerning Airtran Airways and how they go to more than 2600 cities.
[30:37.580 --> 30:44.000]  But at the bottom, like you said, in response to a complaint we received under the DMCA, we have removed one result from this page.
[30:44.360 --> 30:49.160]  If you wish, you may read the DMCA complaint for these removed results and I guess you get the link by doing that.
[30:49.300 --> 30:49.400]  Yeah.
[30:49.540 --> 30:50.220]  It's really silly.
[30:50.360 --> 30:56.700]  But do you think we're going to get served with some kind of paper now because we have a picture of this on our site someplace?
[30:56.700 --> 30:58.720]  I mean, it's a very strange process.
[30:59.140 --> 31:10.960]  One would think value jets or Airtran, whatever they're called, best legal tactic would be to come after us and try and get the page removed from the Internet, not just from Google.
[31:11.560 --> 31:12.800]  As if it never existed.
[31:12.920 --> 31:13.120]  Right.
[31:13.760 --> 31:17.700]  But, you know, they know what we would say, so...
[31:17.700 --> 31:21.260]  Well, we said it anyway, even though they went one step removed from us.
[31:21.260 --> 31:28.440]  As Mike pointed out, chillingeffects.org is run by Electronic Frontier Foundation.
[31:28.440 --> 31:31.580]  We're going to have two people from EFF at the conference.
[31:31.860 --> 31:41.860]  Both Annalee Newitz and Wendy Seltzer will be speaking about chilling effects and other aspects of the Visual Millennium Copyright Act and other ominous laws.
[31:42.920 --> 31:43.600]  Yeah.
[31:43.800 --> 31:45.500]  And there's going to be a legal panel.
[31:46.020 --> 32:00.240]  There's also going to be a panel that I think is going to be very interesting involving a couple of guys from the South who were prevented from discussing a system known as Blackboard, which is a college ID system.
[32:00.400 --> 32:03.140]  I imagine you folks over at Columbia use something like this, or...
[32:03.760 --> 32:04.760]  I can't say new.
[32:04.960 --> 32:06.700]  Yeah, some kind of... what do you know about the system?
[32:07.100 --> 32:07.160]  No, no, no.
[32:07.180 --> 32:12.740]  Well, it's some kind of security defect, major security defects that are involved in this.
[32:12.740 --> 32:18.300]  And they were about to reveal those defects and their research, and they were served with an injunction preventing them.
[32:18.320 --> 32:18.880]  What did the system do?
[32:19.000 --> 32:19.400]  What was it?
[32:19.520 --> 32:22.400]  Well, I don't know, because they never got to present exactly what it was.
[32:22.440 --> 32:24.180]  And they're not allowed to talk about it to this day.
[32:24.440 --> 32:29.800]  But that's the point of the panel, is they're talking about, you know, the threats that came against them.
[32:30.100 --> 32:32.020]  And Dan Morgan is also going to be there.
[32:32.240 --> 32:34.100]  Now, Bernie, maybe you could tell us something about Dan Morgan.
[32:34.220 --> 32:35.400]  He's been on this show a couple of times.
[32:35.680 --> 32:42.320]  Yeah, Dan's a publisher of technical information from way back during the early satellite TV days.
[32:42.740 --> 33:04.200]  And he published a magazine called Satellite Watch News and also published a series of documentary videotapes, which really documented the cat-and-mouse game between satellite TV providers like DirecTV and the hacker community who were trying to figure out how their signals were encoded.
[33:04.200 --> 33:11.620]  And it's an amazing story of countermeasures and electronic countermeasures and back and forth.
[33:12.220 --> 33:20.840]  And Dan Morgan was sued by DirecTV, which is owned by General Motors, for just publishing documentary information about what's going on.
[33:21.020 --> 33:28.200]  And his life was pretty much ruined by these corporations for just telling him, you can't say these things.
[33:28.300 --> 33:31.600]  You can't report these facts that people are discovering.
[33:32.640 --> 33:35.600]  And he's going to be at the conference telling his story.
[33:35.820 --> 33:38.400]  And I think he's a very inspirational figure.
[33:38.520 --> 33:41.440]  Whenever he's come on the radio, he's certainly inspired people to call in.
[33:41.880 --> 33:45.620]  And whenever we meet with him, he's a great guy to hang out with.
[33:45.700 --> 33:47.340]  And I hope he has a lot of fun in New York.
[33:47.500 --> 33:53.600]  We'll be also screening one of his banned videotapes, which are illegal for him to show.
[33:53.600 --> 33:59.140]  But we obtained a copy prior to the lawsuit of Pirate Video 9, the DBS hack.
[33:59.340 --> 34:02.340]  So this is one of the only places you'll be able to see this banned film.
[34:03.240 --> 34:04.040]  Yeah, who knows?
[34:04.040 --> 34:06.920]  We might get our asses hauled into court again.
[34:07.160 --> 34:10.360]  No, it's okay to possess the film, but he's not allowed to distribute it anymore.
[34:10.480 --> 34:11.280]  But we have a copy.
[34:11.460 --> 34:14.170]  It's okay to possess it, but is it okay to show it?
[34:14.480 --> 34:18.630]  Well, there's no copyrighted material in the film itself.
[34:18.860 --> 34:20.260]  Right, but we're angering a corporation.
[34:20.650 --> 34:21.630]  That could be actionable.
[34:21.720 --> 34:23.400]  Well, that's nothing new for us anymore.
[34:23.590 --> 34:24.220]  No, that's true.
[34:24.340 --> 34:24.720]  That's true.
[34:26.210 --> 34:27.590]  Okay, let's move along.
[34:27.720 --> 34:28.980]  We have... is that Render Man there?
[34:29.070 --> 34:29.570]  Hey, how you doing?
[34:29.800 --> 34:30.170]  Hey, how you doing?
[34:30.190 --> 34:31.650]  And Risk Taker over there.
[34:31.900 --> 34:32.740]  Come on and say hi.
[34:33.110 --> 34:33.280]  Hi.
[34:33.460 --> 34:35.480]  Tell us where you're from, what you're doing here.
[34:36.300 --> 34:37.480]  I'm here from Germany.
[34:38.040 --> 34:38.440]  I...
[34:38.440 --> 34:39.280]  You're Risk Taker.
[34:39.480 --> 34:39.690]  Yeah.
[34:39.880 --> 34:40.090]  Okay.
[34:40.570 --> 34:46.340]  And if I'm not mistaken, you're the person who did the translation for the Freedom Downtime DVD into German.
[34:46.570 --> 34:48.690]  I had some help, but pretty much yes.
[34:48.690 --> 34:52.440]  From our broken English to your German, that's...
[34:53.480 --> 34:54.720]  How was the process?
[34:54.840 --> 34:55.190]  Was it smooth?
[34:56.170 --> 34:57.320]  Fairly smooth, yes.
[34:57.690 --> 35:02.630]  I'd have preferred to have been able to do the timings as well, but that wasn't technically possible.
[35:02.630 --> 35:03.220]  Mm-hmm.
[35:03.650 --> 35:04.260]  Um...
[35:04.260 --> 35:11.280]  I received a text file from you guys with each line that was spoken during the film and the timings where it belonged.
[35:11.880 --> 35:19.240]  And I used that to create a file with identical timings and German text instead of English text.
[35:20.000 --> 35:20.190]  Mm-hmm.
[35:20.190 --> 35:23.480]  And you guys used that to put the subtitles on the DVD somehow?
[35:24.700 --> 35:25.300]  Somehow, yeah.
[35:25.360 --> 35:27.320]  It was done very non-traditionally.
[35:28.000 --> 35:28.240]  All right.
[35:28.660 --> 35:29.020]  Uh...
[35:29.020 --> 35:34.170]  People make DVDs or companies make DVDs, and there's a certain way of going about it, and we broke all the rules.
[35:34.520 --> 35:37.860]  We did it in a completely different way because it was our first time, and, uh...
[35:37.860 --> 35:43.000]  You know, we're not professionals at this, but I think, you know, the DVDs, by the way, have been delivered as of today.
[35:43.820 --> 35:44.520]  So they will be...
[35:44.520 --> 35:45.460]  They will be, uh...
[35:45.460 --> 35:48.020]  Yeah, they're in a mail place right now.
[35:48.020 --> 35:48.820]  Uh...
[35:48.820 --> 35:51.630]  We'll have them for the conference, and we can see...
[35:51.630 --> 35:52.780]  Everybody can see just, uh...
[35:52.780 --> 35:54.820]  What it is that we've been laboring over for the last few years.
[35:54.940 --> 35:55.760]  Double DVD set.
[35:56.520 --> 35:59.940]  Two DVDs, and all kinds of extra footage, and a lot of fun.
[36:00.280 --> 36:01.590]  Total of, I think, 20 languages.
[36:02.280 --> 36:02.680]  Um...
[36:02.680 --> 36:03.700]  Did the Klingon make it?
[36:04.380 --> 36:04.780]  No.
[36:05.120 --> 36:05.740]  Well, no.
[36:05.840 --> 36:10.200]  You know, people did want to translate into Klingon, but nobody actually did it.
[36:11.600 --> 36:12.000]  Uh...
[36:12.000 --> 36:14.540]  So, you know, a lot of people volunteered to help with things.
[36:14.940 --> 36:17.960]  But I think we're lucky that this many people came forward and actually...
[36:18.020 --> 36:18.660]  Uh...
[36:18.660 --> 36:20.140]  Did something for us like this.
[36:20.550 --> 36:22.200]  Those Klingons are so unreliable.
[36:22.570 --> 36:24.400]  Yeah, well, you know, they weren't really Klingons.
[36:25.020 --> 36:26.200]  They wouldn't even talk to us.
[36:27.050 --> 36:27.420]  Um...
[36:27.420 --> 36:28.020]  But, uh...
[36:28.020 --> 36:31.760]  No, there are all kinds of things on the DVD that I think people will find interesting.
[36:32.500 --> 36:33.280]  Easter eggs, too.
[36:33.440 --> 36:34.070]  Yes, Easter eggs.
[36:34.160 --> 36:36.980]  But I was referring to just the features that are there.
[36:37.120 --> 36:38.020]  Not the hidden features.
[36:38.120 --> 36:39.020]  The regular features.
[36:39.160 --> 36:40.460]  The features that most people will see.
[36:40.900 --> 36:44.960]  There's all kinds of things that people will see that, you know, Not if they spend hours looking for them.
[36:45.400 --> 36:46.900]  One other thing I'd like to mention.
[36:48.050 --> 36:52.520]  The INS... oh, sorry, Homeland Security guy I met at the airport was friendly.
[36:52.880 --> 36:53.070]  Really?
[36:53.100 --> 36:56.160]  I have no idea how that happened, but it did.
[36:57.020 --> 36:57.420]  Wow.
[36:58.320 --> 37:00.180]  Probably doesn't really work for them, just pass a jacket.
[37:01.020 --> 37:02.280]  Renderman, you're here.
[37:02.460 --> 37:03.340]  You were here last time.
[37:03.570 --> 37:04.980]  Yeah, I was a speaker at the last conference.
[37:05.220 --> 37:05.680]  That's right, that's right.
[37:05.820 --> 37:06.500]  Really enjoyed that.
[37:06.780 --> 37:07.000]  Uh-huh.
[37:07.600 --> 37:08.280]  Where are you from?
[37:08.600 --> 37:09.600]  I'm from Canada.
[37:09.840 --> 37:11.570]  Canada, our friendly neighbor to the north.
[37:11.800 --> 37:12.050]  Yes.
[37:12.610 --> 37:13.300]  Yes, very friendly.
[37:13.440 --> 37:14.440]  How is the border these days?
[37:15.480 --> 37:22.980]  Other than the repeated searching of all my bags, thank goodness for FedEx, or I want to be able to get my lockpicks down here, it actually wasn't too bad.
[37:23.050 --> 37:30.050]  They were all relatively friendly, so it wasn't overly bad, but still, not a process I like to endure too often.
[37:30.240 --> 37:30.460]  Right.
[37:30.740 --> 37:31.480]  What part of Canada?
[37:31.920 --> 37:32.320]  Alberta.
[37:32.570 --> 37:33.280]  Alberta, okay.
[37:33.720 --> 37:34.000]  Cool.
[37:34.300 --> 37:37.280]  I've never actually visited Edmonton or Calgary.
[37:37.380 --> 37:38.480]  I want to go to those places, too.
[37:38.860 --> 37:39.550]  Oh, you're always welcome.
[37:39.800 --> 37:39.880]  Yeah.
[37:40.300 --> 37:41.400]  I'm glad you can get out of the country.
[37:41.400 --> 37:45.840]  If I can get out of the country, okay, sometimes that can be a bit of a hassle, but cool.
[37:45.920 --> 37:47.120]  What are you looking forward to this year?
[37:47.460 --> 37:48.100]  Oh, most definitely.
[37:49.210 --> 37:53.550]  Everything at this conference, especially Barry's lockpicking stuff, really interested.
[37:54.020 --> 37:56.880]  I picked it up a couple of years ago at the last time.
[37:56.900 --> 37:57.140]  See what you did?
[37:57.280 --> 37:57.820]  See what you did?
[37:57.960 --> 37:58.740]  You've got to start it.
[37:58.900 --> 37:59.160]  You've got to start it.
[37:59.160 --> 38:01.300]  This guy is now into lockpicking, because he wants to...
[38:01.300 --> 38:02.540]  Well, do you want me to say sorry?
[38:02.760 --> 38:03.620]  I'm not going to do that.
[38:04.240 --> 38:07.640]  No, I'm just looking for somebody to explain when I get arrested, trying to get this stuff back across the border.
[38:08.160 --> 38:08.740]  Just point to him.
[38:08.840 --> 38:09.480]  He did it.
[38:09.540 --> 38:09.860]  He did it.
[38:10.200 --> 38:10.900]  He's the guilty one.
[38:10.900 --> 38:11.550]  Thank you.
[38:12.540 --> 38:13.180]  You're welcome.
[38:14.340 --> 38:15.960]  Cheshire, you want to talk about your rants some more?
[38:16.220 --> 38:16.660]  Yes.
[38:17.070 --> 38:20.240]  I believe Sunday morning I'm having a session called Cheshire's Rants.
[38:21.070 --> 38:33.660]  Basically, two years ago when I pulled that shtick with the directory assistance stuff where we actually got Verizon into the phone book, I got to thinking, gee, why should I be the only one who can take their case to the Internet and embarrass a company into doing something?
[38:34.070 --> 38:36.420]  So, Sunday morning, you can come in.
[38:37.420 --> 38:45.340]  You're going to get 45 seconds to talk into a microphone, which will be attached to our recordings, and it'll be available on the Internet.
[38:45.640 --> 38:45.980]  Wow.
[38:46.280 --> 38:53.920]  So, if you're wondering what that stopwatch feature on your electronic watch is for, you can time out your talk to 45 seconds.
[38:54.040 --> 38:54.620]  45 seconds.
[38:54.720 --> 38:56.570]  Can you give us an example of a 45-second rant?
[38:57.040 --> 38:57.960]  Oh, golly.
[38:58.610 --> 39:00.160]  I figure you have a bunch saved up.
[39:00.300 --> 39:00.820]  Let me see.
[39:02.600 --> 39:02.960]  Macromedia.
[39:03.830 --> 39:05.240]  I never want Flash.
[39:05.830 --> 39:11.480]  Why can't I have a box that comes up that says, never ask me if I want Flash again?
[39:13.300 --> 39:15.200]  And that's, you know, just 15 seconds right there.
[39:15.300 --> 39:15.420]  Yeah.
[39:15.500 --> 39:17.200]  And that's about all I needed for that rant.
[39:17.280 --> 39:17.920]  That's pretty impassioned.
[39:18.180 --> 39:18.280]  Yeah.
[39:18.460 --> 39:19.980]  You're standing up with your fists clenched and everything.
[39:20.180 --> 39:21.140]  Yeah, we're supposed to notice about it.
[39:21.200 --> 39:21.440]  Wow.
[39:22.500 --> 39:25.240]  Well, I imagine there's going to be a lot of emotion expressed at this thing.
[39:25.240 --> 39:34.540]  I'm sure there will be, because we always have people who bring their own agendas to our conference, and this time we'll have a place for them, for at least 45 seconds.
[39:34.620 --> 39:35.160]  45 seconds.
[39:35.240 --> 39:38.620]  So, bring a 3x5 card with a headline.
[39:38.900 --> 39:40.100]  Not the 4x6 cards.
[39:40.100 --> 39:40.760]  You won't be let in.
[39:42.200 --> 39:43.220]  4x6 is permissible.
[39:43.440 --> 39:45.050]  Even a sheet of paper is permissible.
[39:45.070 --> 39:46.840]  But it has to be lined, not the unlined cards.
[39:47.050 --> 39:48.180]  You weren't supposed to know about that.
[39:50.090 --> 39:53.380]  But we'll probably loosen our standards, depending on what you can bring along.
[39:54.240 --> 39:58.260]  I consider a printer to be a paper pump, and so those blank sheets of paper are pretty easy to get a hold of.
[39:58.880 --> 40:06.780]  But bring us a headline, a URL, or a web address we can refer people to for later, and your 45-second rant.
[40:06.980 --> 40:07.360]  Uh-huh.
[40:08.520 --> 40:10.300]  And we'll give you the 45 seconds.
[40:10.300 --> 40:12.570]  We'll give you the, you know, the World Wide Web.
[40:13.050 --> 40:13.360]  Cool.
[40:14.160 --> 40:14.760]  A-Team, welcome.
[40:14.980 --> 40:15.740]  You're here from Florida?
[40:15.940 --> 40:16.120]  Mm-hmm.
[40:16.520 --> 40:16.740]  Wow.
[40:16.820 --> 40:17.520]  First time in New York?
[40:18.170 --> 40:23.720]  No, I come every year and visit my family, but this is the second time I've actually gone to the city from the dump of Staten Island.
[40:23.980 --> 40:24.480]  The dump of...
[40:24.480 --> 40:27.420]  You know, we have listeners in Staten Island, and they know how to get here.
[40:28.200 --> 40:28.940]  It's still a dump.
[40:29.220 --> 40:31.520]  Yeah, well, we have 20 minutes to get out, so...
[40:31.520 --> 40:37.800]  Well, you know, there are things to be said for Staten Island, like the ferry, for instance, which comes here, and the bridge, which goes to Brooklyn.
[40:37.980 --> 40:39.340]  Plus, my grandma lives there, so...
[40:39.340 --> 40:39.680]  All right.
[40:40.020 --> 40:41.300]  But you're here for the conference.
[40:41.500 --> 40:41.720]  Yeah.
[40:41.900 --> 40:43.640]  And not to make enemies in Staten Island.
[40:45.040 --> 40:46.820]  So, this is your first hacker conference.
[40:47.000 --> 40:47.360]  Yeah, yeah.
[40:47.520 --> 40:48.020]  Cool.
[40:48.460 --> 40:49.600]  What are you looking forward to the most?
[40:50.350 --> 40:54.100]  The lockpicking thing is going to be interesting, and just everything, just hanging out.
[40:54.160 --> 40:56.000]  We'll be able to have enough room for all the people that want to see this.
[40:56.320 --> 40:57.520]  Well, it was pretty crowded last time.
[40:57.540 --> 40:59.100]  It was very crowded last time.
[40:59.300 --> 41:02.600]  So, yeah, we'll have to make sure there's enough ventilation for all the people.
[41:03.960 --> 41:06.780]  And, boy, a lot of people are going to learn quite a bit of stuff.
[41:07.020 --> 41:08.980]  You know what I'm really looking forward to?
[41:09.070 --> 41:09.360]  What's that?
[41:09.500 --> 41:10.480]  The social engineer panel.
[41:10.660 --> 41:12.460]  Yeah, you know, we've got to talk about that.
[41:12.740 --> 41:15.920]  I haven't had time to even think about what to do this year, but every...
[41:15.920 --> 41:19.160]  Are you going to be together with Kevin and do a phone...
[41:19.160 --> 41:22.360]  Well, that's the idea, because Kevin is a master of social engineering as well.
[41:22.550 --> 41:22.740]  Of course, yeah.
[41:22.740 --> 41:25.500]  I'm not sure if he's going to want to do social engineering, you know, but we'll see.
[41:25.500 --> 41:26.980]  That wasn't the question that I had.
[41:27.120 --> 41:27.240]  Yeah.
[41:27.360 --> 41:30.070]  Is he going to team up with you and try to...
[41:30.070 --> 41:31.760]  Well, we're going to have a conversation about it.
[41:31.840 --> 41:32.400]  We'll see what happens.
[41:32.520 --> 41:35.440]  But other people are also welcome to participate in this.
[41:35.600 --> 41:45.300]  If you consider yourself to be a master of social engineering and you have something that you want to try out, you know, talk to someone, I guess, the InfoDesk mic is probably the best place to go and write down your name.
[41:45.380 --> 41:47.720]  Maybe we'll try and find you and put you on that panel or something.
[41:47.740 --> 41:49.180]  If, you know, it's impressive.
[41:49.550 --> 41:51.140]  Or give them the mic for 45 seconds.
[41:51.380 --> 41:52.720]  Or, yeah, 45-second rant.
[41:52.860 --> 41:53.840]  We can do that, too.
[41:53.840 --> 41:58.760]  If you can trick the InfoDesk into getting you onto the panel, then I guess you qualify.
[41:58.980 --> 42:02.020]  Well, the InfoDesk is also where you're going to register for the third track.
[42:02.140 --> 42:03.040]  And the third track...
[42:03.040 --> 42:04.380]  Who wants to talk about the third track?
[42:04.520 --> 42:05.220]  It's basically...
[42:05.220 --> 42:05.760]  You want to talk about it.
[42:05.760 --> 42:05.920]  All right.
[42:05.920 --> 42:06.660]  I'll talk about it, then.
[42:07.020 --> 42:19.280]  It's where people who aren't on the first and second track get to talk because, well, if they didn't schedule themselves and we're all full like we are right now, you know, then there's no other place to put you.
[42:19.640 --> 42:24.140]  So we had, you know, in the past, we've had all kinds of luminaries show up onto the third track.
[42:24.500 --> 42:28.340]  It's a smaller room, but, you know, there's a lot to be said.
[42:29.500 --> 42:30.300]  And that's...
[42:30.300 --> 42:30.620]  Yes, Jim.
[42:30.940 --> 42:32.300]  I've actually gotten some email.
[42:32.570 --> 42:35.920]  I've actually gotten two separate requests to put me on the third track.
[42:36.050 --> 42:37.180]  I'm not too sure about one of them.
[42:37.460 --> 42:38.600]  One of them is the traditional.
[42:38.780 --> 42:39.360]  Everybody knows...
[42:39.360 --> 42:40.860]  I think that was the third rail, not the third track.
[42:40.860 --> 42:41.840]  No, no, no.
[42:41.900 --> 42:44.360]  This did not come from my former employers.
[42:44.540 --> 42:44.600]  No.
[42:45.400 --> 42:47.280]  Everybody knows I am Red Balaclava.
[42:47.480 --> 42:50.050]  And, yeah, the first two hopes I didn't speak about Metricard.
[42:50.160 --> 42:56.240]  And I haven't, for various legal reasons and personal reasons, spoken about them at the last two.
[42:56.400 --> 43:00.160]  But I've gotten a couple of emails saying, you know, that people have missed that.
[43:00.160 --> 43:01.440]  And I'm thinking of doing that.
[43:01.440 --> 43:10.860]  And more interestingly, I actually got an email that mentioned the latest Wired and said, why not a Sunday morning religious service?
[43:11.000 --> 43:13.400]  You remember my rant on the second Metricard thing?
[43:13.940 --> 43:18.920]  Somebody apparently has stolen that to talk about RFIDs, how they're the mark of the beast.
[43:19.220 --> 43:21.740]  And I figure that's my routine.
[43:22.000 --> 43:23.570]  I can do it better than they can.
[43:23.760 --> 43:24.400]  I may...
[43:24.400 --> 43:24.980]  We may have...
[43:24.980 --> 43:31.070]  We may start off Cheshire's rants with a religious rant on the mark of the beast, RFIDs, and Metricards.
[43:31.070 --> 43:32.080]  So your rants...
[43:32.800 --> 43:33.820]  It's on Sunday, isn't it?
[43:33.920 --> 43:34.240]  Yes, it is.
[43:34.340 --> 43:35.120]  Okay, so it works out.
[43:35.200 --> 43:35.680]  We could do that.
[43:35.820 --> 43:36.220]  We could do that.
[43:36.420 --> 43:41.280]  So wait, if I'm not mistaken, you said, was it 1997, you said that Metricards were the mark of the beast?
[43:41.520 --> 43:47.560]  1997, I came across Revelations and, you know, the mark of the beast, the Metricards.
[43:47.580 --> 43:50.460]  Were not barcodes revealed as the mark of the beast before that?
[43:50.860 --> 43:55.680]  Speaking of barcodes, did you know that barcodes and Derek Jeter are exactly the same age?
[43:55.960 --> 43:56.780]  To the day.
[43:57.000 --> 43:59.800]  I don't even want to start thinking about that, but...
[43:59.800 --> 44:01.240]  If you're a conspiracy...
[44:01.240 --> 44:02.880]  But you danced away from the subject pretty nicely.
[44:02.880 --> 44:03.640]  What was this question?
[44:03.820 --> 44:09.660]  Well, I was just saying that the barcode was marked as, you know, the beast type of thing before the Metricards.
[44:09.760 --> 44:10.180]  That's true.
[44:10.340 --> 44:10.780]  Because it existed before.
[44:11.180 --> 44:16.540]  That's true, and there is something to be said about that, but this is... I've just had a request for this.
[44:16.640 --> 44:18.600]  This isn't a formed rant of my own.
[44:19.320 --> 44:20.780]  It's a populist movement.
[44:21.680 --> 44:25.620]  I'm expressing a populist movement rather than an idea that I've had personally.
[44:25.780 --> 44:31.600]  In the past, we've had Richard Stallman on the third track because he showed up by surprise, so you never know who's going to show up.
[44:31.780 --> 44:33.120]  You know, if we have...
[44:33.120 --> 44:39.520]  Steve Wozniak is one of our keynotes, so if Bill Gates were to show up, he would have to be in the third track because there isn't room for him on the first or second.
[44:40.100 --> 44:42.660]  We'd have to up our security force, I think, if that happened.
[44:43.180 --> 44:46.720]  Well, yeah, you know, we'd have to find a new one, I think, because they'd probably all run away.
[44:46.940 --> 44:49.400]  We'd have to ask Bill what sort of pie he wants to get in his face.
[44:50.830 --> 44:52.860]  And Emmanuel, we still have other guests.
[44:52.900 --> 44:53.560]  Jeff, you're here.
[44:53.720 --> 44:54.000]  Yes.
[44:55.080 --> 44:57.160]  This is the first I've heard your voice.
[44:57.460 --> 44:58.780]  In fact, the first I've seen your face.
[44:58.980 --> 45:01.020]  I saw you in the hallway, but where were you all this time?
[45:01.140 --> 45:01.920]  You were down...
[45:01.920 --> 45:02.920]  Did you put money in the car?
[45:03.080 --> 45:03.880]  Did someone put money in the car?
[45:03.920 --> 45:04.160]  I don't know.
[45:09.520 --> 45:09.980]  Jeff, yes.
[45:10.180 --> 45:12.620]  Yeah, no, but we've still got some other guests.
[45:12.720 --> 45:14.260]  Have them all walk up and introduce themselves.
[45:15.000 --> 45:16.180]  And we'll see who's here.
[45:16.180 --> 45:19.560]  I can't see them because I have a big 50-inch monitor in the way.
[45:19.700 --> 45:20.540]  I can't see beyond there.
[45:21.100 --> 45:21.880]  Oh, yes.
[45:22.160 --> 45:22.740]  Oh, yes.
[45:22.840 --> 45:23.540]  I forgot you were here.
[45:23.620 --> 45:23.900]  Hey there.
[45:24.200 --> 45:24.660]  How are you doing?
[45:25.160 --> 45:25.700]  Pretty well.
[45:25.820 --> 45:26.460]  And who are you again?
[45:26.900 --> 45:27.280]  Sasha.
[45:27.580 --> 45:31.080]  I also came over from the Netherlands for a conference.
[45:31.720 --> 45:33.120]  What did you bring with you, Sasha?
[45:34.280 --> 45:38.700]  Actually, a lot of American propaganda movies from the 50s and 40s.
[45:38.960 --> 45:41.480]  How did you get your hands on American propaganda movies over in Holland?
[45:41.940 --> 45:42.500]  Yeah, internet.
[45:44.020 --> 45:47.260]  It's a lot of stuff from AT&T, from...
[45:47.840 --> 45:52.540]  Yeah, I think the earliest is from 1927, explaining how to use the rotary telephone.
[45:53.980 --> 45:54.880]  It's a film?
[45:55.140 --> 45:58.860]  Yeah, silent movie, actually, about the telephone, which is kind of ridiculous.
[45:58.860 --> 46:02.240]  Oh, Redhack, you're scheduling the movie room, right?
[46:02.260 --> 46:02.600]  Where are you?
[46:02.640 --> 46:02.980]  Where'd he go?
[46:03.900 --> 46:04.760]  He went outside.
[46:04.980 --> 46:05.380]  He disappeared.
[46:05.380 --> 46:05.680]  He went outside.
[46:05.940 --> 46:06.960]  Can I pull him in or...?
[46:06.960 --> 46:08.580]  Well, he's probably out there scheduling the movie room.
[46:08.900 --> 46:09.900]  But we'll find...
[46:09.900 --> 46:10.320]  Oh, here he is.
[46:10.500 --> 46:10.860]  There he is.
[46:11.020 --> 46:14.860]  Redhack, do you know when that silent movie about the telephones...
[46:15.780 --> 46:16.240]  Say again?
[46:16.380 --> 46:19.700]  There's a silent movie about how to use a rotary phone that Sasha brought over.
[46:19.780 --> 46:20.340]  Do you know about this?
[46:20.500 --> 46:21.680]  Yeah, I know about it.
[46:21.700 --> 46:22.820]  Do you know when it's scheduled for you?
[46:22.820 --> 46:29.520]  Oh, I believe between Friday and Saturday at midnight, but I can go check that.
[46:29.520 --> 46:31.460]  How will people find out where the schedule is?
[46:31.460 --> 46:36.400]  Well, there'll be a schedule outside the movie room, and I'll probably post some stuff on the site.
[46:36.540 --> 46:37.380]  Okay, that'd be good.
[46:37.440 --> 46:38.760]  Or at least in the wiki, for sure.
[46:38.980 --> 46:39.160]  Uh-huh.
[46:39.300 --> 46:39.440]  Yeah.
[46:39.660 --> 46:39.940]  Cool.
[46:40.080 --> 46:41.480]  Yeah, we're going to have so much good material there.
[46:41.580 --> 46:43.100]  It's really going to be hard knowing where to go.
[46:43.240 --> 46:44.780]  But the movie room runs all night long.
[46:44.880 --> 46:46.540]  Movie room, yeah, 24 hours.
[46:46.740 --> 46:46.960]  Okay.
[46:47.040 --> 46:49.120]  And the Lost Film Fest will be there as well.
[46:49.260 --> 46:49.960]  Tell us about that, Bernie.
[46:49.960 --> 46:54.520]  Well, it's a pretty amazing collection of eclectic films.
[46:56.460 --> 47:00.180]  Actually, there's a very good description of that better than I can announce.
[47:00.180 --> 47:06.200]  If you just go to hope.net, and on the home page, there's a link for the films and Lost Film Fest.
[47:06.360 --> 47:07.640]  Isn't that right, Red Hack?
[47:08.020 --> 47:08.980]  He left again.
[47:09.220 --> 47:10.780]  He's outside scheduling more movies.
[47:11.020 --> 47:11.320]  Oh, he's busy scheduling.
[47:11.400 --> 47:23.220]  If you go to hope.net and see the main site and then click on the speakers page, there is some text there about the movie room, and you can then click on a link to read about the Lost Film Fest.
[47:23.480 --> 47:24.900]  Yes, Red Hack, you're back to answer that question?
[47:25.060 --> 47:26.120]  He just wanted to get air.
[47:27.840 --> 47:28.200]  Okay.
[47:28.420 --> 47:30.440]  Is it when the Lost Film Fest is?
[47:30.900 --> 47:31.960]  I think that's what the question is.
[47:31.960 --> 47:32.560]  Where on the website?
[47:32.780 --> 47:33.240]  When is it?
[47:33.280 --> 47:33.660]  Where on the website?
[47:33.660 --> 47:35.080]  Well, why don't you tell us when it is.
[47:35.120 --> 47:39.040]  It's going to be Saturday evening from 8 to midnight.
[47:39.120 --> 47:40.300]  It's a four-hour presentation.
[47:40.580 --> 47:41.660]  It should be really interesting, though.
[47:41.920 --> 47:43.520]  But there's a whole listing of the movies on that site.
[47:43.820 --> 47:44.180]  Okay.
[47:44.760 --> 47:47.400]  So that's just one of the things that we have scheduled.
[47:47.640 --> 47:48.460]  One of many things.
[47:48.760 --> 47:57.180]  And yes, we'll have the network area, the movie room, the lock-picking panel, workshop, rather, all on the second floor, which is a really huge space.
[47:57.480 --> 47:58.460]  Oh, more people to introduce themselves.
[47:58.960 --> 48:00.700]  No, I think this guy was just bringing a sandwich.
[48:02.400 --> 48:02.800]  Okay.
[48:03.640 --> 48:05.240]  I just look like a two-sandwich sort of guy.
[48:05.600 --> 48:09.200]  Hey, I'm Scott Panthera from Canada, down with Render Man.
[48:10.460 --> 48:13.740]  He just boasts eternal about how wonderful this hope is.
[48:13.900 --> 48:15.920]  And I'm just here looking for some hope.
[48:16.260 --> 48:18.020]  Your shirt says social engineering specialist.
[48:18.040 --> 48:18.840]  Is that true?
[48:19.380 --> 48:20.360]  Are you a social engineer?
[48:20.660 --> 48:22.800]  I don't have to use the fifth because Canada doesn't have a fifth.
[48:23.120 --> 48:25.720]  But we're allowed to incriminate ourselves.
[48:27.340 --> 48:28.700]  That doesn't mean it's a good thing.
[48:28.780 --> 48:29.120]  In fact, you're encouraged to.
[48:29.460 --> 48:30.120]  Yeah, exactly.
[48:30.600 --> 48:31.760]  I'll have to read you your rights up there.
[48:32.860 --> 48:36.940]  I'm actually really good at talking my way into what I need to get into and getting my own way.
[48:38.000 --> 48:40.620]  And, you know, just stay on the good side of the law.
[48:40.720 --> 48:42.700]  You talked your way into this country and welcome.
[48:42.920 --> 48:43.740]  Into a radio show.
[48:43.960 --> 48:44.280]  All right.
[48:44.380 --> 48:44.840]  Good, good.
[48:44.940 --> 48:47.960]  Well, we have a lot of Canadians and Dutch people here.
[48:48.900 --> 48:50.820]  No Germans, no French, no...
[48:51.600 --> 48:52.220]  Somalians, aren't you?
[48:52.740 --> 48:53.380]  Oh, I'm sorry.
[48:53.420 --> 48:53.800]  I forgot.
[48:53.920 --> 48:54.200]  I forgot.
[48:54.500 --> 48:55.320]  No, I'm sorry.
[48:55.340 --> 48:56.340]  I'm not actually German.
[48:56.340 --> 48:56.760]  I'm British.
[48:56.780 --> 48:57.780]  I only live in Germany.
[48:58.320 --> 48:59.660]  Well, now you're just trying to confuse me.
[49:01.640 --> 49:02.000]  Okay.
[49:02.360 --> 49:03.920]  Well, anyone else?
[49:04.820 --> 49:05.340]  Go ahead.
[49:07.750 --> 49:10.700]  As we all shuffle up to the microphone here and...
[49:10.700 --> 49:12.920]  There are nearly 150 people in this room.
[49:12.980 --> 49:13.460]  What do you expect?
[49:13.460 --> 49:13.640]  It's unbelievable.
[49:13.800 --> 49:15.320]  I didn't think the room could stretch out like that.
[49:15.750 --> 49:17.660]  And even more, trying to call in on the phone.
[49:17.840 --> 49:19.080]  Which, I guess we can take phone calls.
[49:19.120 --> 49:20.420]  212-209-2900.
[49:20.540 --> 49:21.540]  But remember, you need headphones to hear.
[49:21.700 --> 49:23.060]  So, half of you won't be able to hear.
[49:23.700 --> 49:24.400]  But, go ahead.
[49:24.800 --> 49:25.420]  My name's Kevin.
[49:25.560 --> 49:26.220]  I'm from California.
[49:26.730 --> 49:27.380]  This is...
[49:27.380 --> 49:28.100]  Wait a minute.
[49:28.300 --> 49:29.480]  I know there's a Kevin from California.
[49:29.640 --> 49:30.280]  He's not here yet.
[49:30.460 --> 49:30.900]  Kevin Midnight.
[49:31.880 --> 49:33.120]  There's two Kevins from California?
[49:33.720 --> 49:34.040]  Yeah.
[49:34.040 --> 49:34.800]  Wow, what a state.
[49:34.800 --> 49:35.220]  It's a big state.
[49:35.460 --> 49:36.020]  How about that?
[49:36.400 --> 49:38.080]  I've been in New York now for about eight hours.
[49:38.180 --> 49:39.000]  I just came from Paris.
[49:39.020 --> 49:41.420]  So, I was able to go to the Paris 2600 meeting last week.
[49:41.420 --> 49:43.820]  Kind of out of the way trip to get here.
[49:43.980 --> 49:44.320]  Yeah, yeah.
[49:44.760 --> 49:45.720]  California via Paris.
[49:45.940 --> 49:46.920]  It was a cheaper flight.
[49:47.300 --> 49:47.540]  Okay.
[49:47.900 --> 49:48.060]  Yeah.
[49:48.220 --> 49:48.760]  I don't doubt it.
[49:48.880 --> 49:49.660]  You went to the Paris meeting?
[49:49.840 --> 49:50.940]  I did go to the Paris 2600 meeting.
[49:50.940 --> 49:52.620]  I went to the Paris 2600 meeting last year.
[49:52.900 --> 49:53.540]  It's so cool.
[49:53.680 --> 49:56.560]  Yeah, we all wound up drinking wine in a park at midnight.
[49:57.040 --> 49:57.360]  Yeah.
[49:58.300 --> 50:00.340]  I don't know if that still happens, but it's really nice.
[50:00.560 --> 50:01.480]  Yeah, it was very nice.
[50:01.640 --> 50:05.460]  I don't speak French, so there's kind of a language barrier of some people, but...
[50:05.460 --> 50:06.820]  You're waving your point, you know?
[50:06.960 --> 50:07.500]  Yeah, exactly.
[50:07.820 --> 50:07.920]  Nobody understands that.
[50:07.940 --> 50:08.760]  It worked out quite well.
[50:08.900 --> 50:10.800]  We did some war driving in the middle of the city, and...
[50:10.800 --> 50:11.080]  Uh-huh.
[50:11.440 --> 50:11.800]  Yeah.
[50:12.120 --> 50:14.180]  What kind of things are found in Paris?
[50:14.320 --> 50:14.960]  A lot of wireless?
[50:15.240 --> 50:16.000]  Lots of wireless.
[50:16.240 --> 50:17.560]  There's wireless everywhere there.
[50:17.760 --> 50:18.000]  Wow.
[50:18.480 --> 50:19.000]  That's cool.
[50:19.100 --> 50:21.060]  Well, I'm sure there's going to be a lot of talk about that.
[50:21.240 --> 50:23.160]  We have all kinds of wireless panels.
[50:24.180 --> 50:26.360]  Dragorn's coming down for the author of Kismet.
[50:26.760 --> 50:30.820]  It's going to be giving all kinds of talks on both that and just wireless in general.
[50:31.380 --> 50:32.720]  And I think that's going to...
[50:32.720 --> 50:38.080]  That's something in 2002 that a lot of people were very interested in, because it was fairly new back then, and now it's, of course, a lot more established.
[50:38.080 --> 50:45.020]  Just the predominance of signals, where you can basically just pop onto the internet almost anywhere in the city now for free.
[50:45.520 --> 50:49.120]  And sometimes the people know about it, and sometimes they don't, the ones who are running the systems.
[50:49.440 --> 50:52.760]  And it's really kind of a neat time to be playing with things.
[50:53.360 --> 50:54.660]  And just a recommendation.
[50:55.440 --> 51:03.500]  If your business is within range, within about a mile of the Hotel Pennsylvania, and you have wireless, you might want to turn it off this weekend.
[51:03.500 --> 51:06.640]  Just a suggestion from the peanut gallery here.
[51:06.940 --> 51:15.560]  We'll warn everyone from river to river, the east of the Hudson, and from essentially, say, 65th Street down to, what, 14th Street is pretty much safe?
[51:16.060 --> 51:18.480]  14th Street, maybe a little further south if you're paranoid.
[51:19.200 --> 51:20.740]  We know you're out there.
[51:20.740 --> 51:33.440]  The classic cover of our magazine, which Cheshire came up with and Emmanuel is now holding, from two years ago, from Hope H2K2, shows the, what was it, 53 networks in the area around the Hotel Pennsylvania?
[51:33.680 --> 51:33.800]  A lot.
[51:33.940 --> 51:34.620]  An awful lot.
[51:34.760 --> 51:35.580]  Basically, it's just circles.
[51:35.580 --> 51:36.780]  I think it was 53 at the time.
[51:37.060 --> 51:50.460]  We actually drove around the streets for a couple of hours, a few weeks before the conference, and just mapped it all out, and then printed an aerial shot of the hotel with surrounding areas, including Madison Square Garden.
[51:50.520 --> 51:53.500]  You just see all the different circles indicating each one is a different network.
[51:53.920 --> 51:55.040]  And that was two years ago.
[51:55.140 --> 51:56.400]  That was the summer 2002.
[51:56.760 --> 51:58.280]  That's actually become a classic cover.
[51:58.360 --> 52:04.540]  I don't remember where I saw that, but I was reading over someone's shoulder on the subway, a design student, and it's in a textbook.
[52:05.020 --> 52:05.900]  This is in a textbook?
[52:06.140 --> 52:06.960]  You didn't tell me this?
[52:07.100 --> 52:07.600]  Oh, I'm sorry.
[52:07.700 --> 52:08.660]  I only saw it a couple of weeks ago.
[52:08.760 --> 52:09.420]  Well, what's the textbook?
[52:09.520 --> 52:12.960]  I have no idea, but I swear to you, it's in a design textbook.
[52:13.160 --> 52:14.200]  Please don't swear on the air.
[52:14.340 --> 52:14.520]  Oh.
[52:14.720 --> 52:21.280]  I don't think you'd be able to see any of the buildings if we tried to, you know, map it again at this point with the prevalence of wireless.
[52:21.660 --> 52:22.180]  Probably, yeah.
[52:22.340 --> 52:23.900]  It'd just be one big green blotch.
[52:24.300 --> 52:26.140]  53 for 2002 is a lot.
[52:26.160 --> 52:27.240]  I think it's more than 53.
[52:27.240 --> 52:31.740]  I picked up over 50 from just our room at the Hotel Pennsylvania.
[52:33.160 --> 52:35.580]  So, I can only imagine what it's like from other angles.
[52:35.720 --> 52:42.640]  At least one of them is going to be us, and we do intend to get wireless all throughout the convention area, and we're going to be working very hard on that.
[52:43.400 --> 52:49.980]  Last night, I was actually having a drink with the guy who designed this cover.
[52:50.420 --> 52:50.820]  Really?
[52:51.040 --> 52:51.540]  Yeah, yeah.
[52:51.700 --> 52:54.740]  I'm going to see him again tomorrow, but he's become a good friend.
[52:55.480 --> 52:55.720]  Cool.
[52:55.720 --> 52:58.640]  Well, if someone was in the D.C.
[52:58.800 --> 53:04.080]  area recently, they would have found that the Department of Homeland Security's wireless network was also unprotected.
[53:05.900 --> 53:07.300]  I did hear about that.
[53:07.700 --> 53:09.160]  Do you have any more details on that, Bernie?
[53:10.000 --> 53:19.680]  Well, you can just do a look up on the Internet for Department of Homeland Security and Wi-Fi or wireless networking, and you'll find a lot of news articles.
[53:19.680 --> 53:30.550]  It was covered in the mainstream media how Department of Homeland Security was really caught with their pants down with an unsecured wireless network that employees just set up to make
[53:38.400 --> 53:40.400]  And they reached into the parking lot.
[53:41.160 --> 53:42.380]  And they couldn't stop it.
[53:43.420 --> 53:49.540]  I was just going to say that while we're on the topic of the magazine, I understand a new edition will be available at the conference.
[53:49.720 --> 53:50.140]  Oh, really?
[53:50.640 --> 53:53.320]  That's the rumors floating around the Internet.
[53:53.920 --> 53:55.300]  Oh, I better get busy then.
[53:55.500 --> 53:55.620]  Yeah.
[53:56.800 --> 53:57.280]  Good gosh.
[53:57.400 --> 53:59.440]  Well, there's all kinds of surprises at this conference, isn't there?
[53:59.560 --> 53:59.760]  Yeah.
[54:00.580 --> 54:00.980]  Wow.
[54:01.420 --> 54:02.280]  Okay, who else do we have?
[54:03.000 --> 54:03.960]  Any other...
[54:03.960 --> 54:05.700]  Hi, it's Lynn from Atlanta FreeNet.
[54:05.840 --> 54:10.800]  We're sort of a different country than up here, but we tried, but it didn't work out.
[54:12.280 --> 54:13.020]  But I'll be there.
[54:13.100 --> 54:22.980]  And I'd like to thank the owner of Linksys on the side that faces the Empire State Building for great Internet access over the last couple days.
[54:24.460 --> 54:25.780]  Because you've been able to connect through them?
[54:25.920 --> 54:27.940]  Yeah, well, I look at them as donors.
[54:28.560 --> 54:31.440]  They're donating to the, you know, to the wireless community.
[54:31.620 --> 54:34.300]  There are people out there that actually do donate intentionally.
[54:34.960 --> 54:36.320]  Yes, well, that's what we do in Atlanta.
[54:36.480 --> 54:44.560]  We intentionally do put out wide area high sites for people to put smaller locations.
[54:44.560 --> 54:46.660]  You can go check it out, atlantafreenet.org.
[54:46.740 --> 54:48.160]  What do you get out of it for doing that?
[54:48.260 --> 54:50.300]  For people that might wonder, don't you lose your shirts?
[54:50.780 --> 54:52.640]  I mean, it doesn't cost a lot of money to do this.
[54:52.640 --> 54:54.060]  Well, we enjoy it.
[54:54.140 --> 54:54.620]  It's a hobby.
[54:54.800 --> 54:55.320]  It's fun.
[54:55.540 --> 55:00.400]  I mean, but, you know, it's, no, we don't lose our shirts on it.
[55:00.500 --> 55:06.860]  We use what we have and scrounge up things and buy what's absolutely necessary.
[55:07.360 --> 55:10.180]  You even did it at the Dayton Ham venture this year, didn't you?
[55:10.180 --> 55:10.720]  That's right.
[55:10.940 --> 55:16.560]  We put up an access point in our spot using my Verizon AirCard as the access.
[55:16.820 --> 55:24.740]  And actually, you know, we had probably about 20 or 30 people come up to the booth and say, oh, thanks for the email.
[55:24.940 --> 55:27.240]  I was able to, you know, thanks for the access.
[55:27.240 --> 55:30.180]  I was able to pop my email and keep in touch with work or whatever.
[55:31.060 --> 55:32.880]  So it was, you know, it was interesting.
[55:33.040 --> 55:35.020]  It was slow, but it was Wi-Fi.
[55:35.020 --> 55:41.360]  So you would encourage people in the city that might be able to do this to just go ahead and there's nothing to worry about?
[55:41.640 --> 55:49.140]  Well, I would be careful about how you do it so that your own network is not vulnerable.
[55:49.360 --> 55:49.700]  Okay.
[55:49.840 --> 55:54.720]  But, yeah, it can be easily done with one, you know, with one computer and an access point.
[55:54.720 --> 55:58.160]  And you can do it securely so you're not putting yourself at risk.
[55:58.580 --> 55:59.920]  That would be the only problem.
[56:00.100 --> 56:01.980]  What kind of bandwidth is good for this usually?
[56:02.980 --> 56:09.480]  Well, you know, the bottleneck is the internet connection, not the Wi-Fi.
[56:09.580 --> 56:10.780]  Can someone with a cable modem do it?
[56:10.920 --> 56:11.300]  Oh, yeah.
[56:11.640 --> 56:12.060]  Oh, yeah.
[56:12.240 --> 56:16.860]  Well, I mean, you know, any bandwidth at all is better than nothing.
[56:17.220 --> 56:18.840]  But do the cable companies get angry at this?
[56:18.900 --> 56:19.920]  Well, yeah, some of them do.
[56:20.100 --> 56:20.820]  I thought they might.
[56:20.960 --> 56:26.260]  There are several companies that actually encourage you to do their last mile.
[56:27.200 --> 56:37.640]  I think Speed Factory is one of them where they actually encourage you to get other people to share your connection with you and you get a little bit of credit off of your account for doing such.
[56:38.000 --> 56:45.980]  Because, you know, the fewer runs that they have coming out to people's houses, the less they have to pay the phone company for it.
[56:46.200 --> 56:48.380]  And, you know, it works out for you and your neighbors.
[56:48.380 --> 56:53.580]  But, yes, your standard telephone companies and cable modem people, not so happy about it.
[56:53.800 --> 56:54.000]  All right.
[56:54.000 --> 56:56.400]  Don't mean to cut you off, but I noticed that we're almost out of time.
[56:56.540 --> 56:57.680]  We didn't take any phone calls.
[56:57.760 --> 56:59.160]  I don't know if we've introduced everybody.
[56:59.360 --> 56:59.940]  Are there more people?
[57:00.340 --> 57:01.380]  Anybody else want to be introduced?
[57:02.340 --> 57:03.560]  Nobody else wants to...
[57:03.560 --> 57:03.760]  Okay.
[57:03.900 --> 57:04.580]  I think we got them all.
[57:04.640 --> 57:04.980]  Got them all?
[57:05.120 --> 57:05.300]  Okay.
[57:05.520 --> 57:07.480]  Are there others out in the hallway, maybe, and down in the street?
[57:07.660 --> 57:08.420]  They're massing.
[57:08.540 --> 57:09.340]  They're coming to New York.
[57:09.500 --> 57:12.080]  They're all gathering outside.
[57:12.320 --> 57:14.140]  And, you know, it's starting.
[57:14.420 --> 57:14.840]  It's starting.
[57:14.840 --> 57:15.880]  And they'll be at the conference on Friday.
[57:15.880 --> 57:18.420]  They'll be at the conference on Friday, Saturday, and Sunday.
[57:18.420 --> 57:18.700]  And Sunday.
[57:18.820 --> 57:19.460]  Special show.
[57:19.660 --> 57:22.540]  A special show this Friday coming up, yes.
[57:22.760 --> 57:23.380]  8 p.m.
[57:23.440 --> 57:24.040]  to 10 p.m.
[57:24.040 --> 57:27.500]  here on this radio station, live from the conference, off the hook.
[57:27.960 --> 57:29.420]  If you haven't had enough of us.
[57:29.540 --> 57:30.220]  Yeah, live audience.
[57:30.460 --> 57:31.820]  Hopefully an enthusiastic crowd.
[57:32.660 --> 57:34.060]  I don't think that will be a problem.
[57:34.260 --> 57:35.500]  Well, it's going to be interesting.
[57:35.760 --> 57:37.840]  So you can be a part of that, too, if you're at the conference.
[57:38.460 --> 57:39.440]  See us live.
[57:39.860 --> 57:41.740]  And, boy, what a whole lot of fun.
[57:42.300 --> 57:44.440]  Leo, you have closing comments for us?
[57:44.440 --> 57:46.600]  I just want to say the two panels I'm doing.
[57:47.160 --> 57:58.160]  Non-lethal weaponry, which will discuss HEARF, EMP, sonic weaponry, and also the phone losers of America, 10th year anniversary panel, which will be on Friday at 11 p.m.
[57:58.360 --> 57:59.480]  Phone losers of America.
[57:59.620 --> 57:59.780]  Yeah.
[57:59.920 --> 58:00.660]  I can hardly wait.
[58:01.200 --> 58:01.780]  All right.
[58:02.760 --> 58:03.200]  Okay.
[58:03.360 --> 58:04.840]  Any closing remarks?
[58:05.000 --> 58:06.340]  Because we have about one minute left.
[58:08.280 --> 58:09.420]  Well, I guess be there.
[58:09.720 --> 58:10.880]  Emmanuel, there was one comment.
[58:11.020 --> 58:12.920]  They were talking about what you corrected in the article.
[58:12.920 --> 58:16.460]  Don't we generally get the deadbeats and the war criminals as well anyway?
[58:16.840 --> 58:20.860]  Well, yeah, but, you know, they're not amongst our most prized attendees.
[58:21.240 --> 58:21.360]  All right, all right.
[58:21.360 --> 58:22.620]  But, you know, they're curious.
[58:22.820 --> 58:26.080]  The people who are willing to come and learn and be a part of things.
[58:26.240 --> 58:28.640]  Remember, registration starts tomorrow at 12 noon.
[58:29.020 --> 58:30.180]  Come to the Hotel Pennsylvania.
[58:30.180 --> 58:35.580]  It's on 7th Avenue between 32nd and 33rd Street, right across the street from Madison Square Garden, Penn Station, that kind of thing.
[58:35.580 --> 58:41.760]  And if you have some time tomorrow to help us set up, we have just so much stuff this year going on the walls.
[58:42.140 --> 58:44.900]  You know, forget about all the network stuff we have every year.
[58:45.000 --> 58:47.660]  We've got so much artwork going on the walls.
[58:47.800 --> 58:48.400]  It's unbelievable.
[58:48.840 --> 58:48.980]  Yeah.
[58:49.120 --> 58:52.440]  The design, the design aspect alone here is amazing.
[58:52.600 --> 58:52.900]  Amazing.
[58:53.020 --> 58:59.260]  We have a great designer who has gone completely overboard with all the design here.
[58:59.400 --> 59:00.220]  Overboard in a great way.
[59:00.220 --> 59:03.060]  And the conference on Friday opens 10 a.m., right?
[59:03.220 --> 59:03.580]  10 a.m.
[59:03.600 --> 59:04.420]  is the first talk, yeah.
[59:04.600 --> 59:08.160]  But you can register starting tomorrow at noon and throughout the weekend.
[59:08.520 --> 59:11.780]  And again, we're on again Friday night, 8 o'clock.
[59:12.180 --> 59:13.800]  And we're going to dismiss from the left.
[59:14.320 --> 59:15.580]  Yeah, when we do that.
[59:15.920 --> 59:17.900]  www.hope.net for more information.
[59:18.300 --> 59:18.880]  Samantha Goldstein.
[59:18.980 --> 59:19.440]  See you next time.
[59:19.560 --> 59:19.780]  Good night.
[01:01:12.340 --> 01:01:14.020]  Hello, I'm David Rothenberg.
[01:01:14.200 --> 01:01:21.900]  One of the real battles in the fight against crime and arena rarely discussed is what happens to a man or woman when they are released from jail or prison.
[01:01:22.120 --> 01:01:27.040]  Where will they live, earn a living, function in society after being institutionalized?
[01:01:27.160 --> 01:01:31.800]  We'll be exploring that in a special edition of Wake Up Call, Tuesday, July 13th.
[01:01:31.920 --> 01:01:36.480]  I'll be joined by Stanley Richards, who has experienced all of those transitional hazards.
[01:01:36.760 --> 01:01:43.040]  And together, we'll talk with men and women who are overcoming the blockade that faces them when they return to society.
[01:01:43.040 --> 01:01:47.020]  Join us on Tuesday morning, July 13th, from 6 to 9 a.m.
[01:01:47.160 --> 01:01:50.120]  for a special Wake Up Call program, Coming Home.
[01:01:50.140 --> 01:01:55.460]  It's the real battle against crime and creating hope for a forgotten and ignored population.