[00:00.000 --> 00:10.860]  Although Schroeder's statement offered some hope to Poles, Polish Foreign Minister Włodzimosz Cimoszewicz warned that a declaration rejecting German reparations does not settle the issue.
[00:11.160 --> 00:22.620]  As politicians work hard to achieve reconciliation and to change old stereotypes, observers in Poland wonder how the damage done by the latest ex-police organization's moves can be undone.
[00:22.900 --> 00:26.580]  In Warsaw, I'm Donuta Szafraniec for Free Speech Radio News.
[00:29.400 --> 00:32.180]  You've been listening to Free Speech Radio News.
[00:32.380 --> 00:33.680]  I'm Aura Bogado.
[00:36.950 --> 00:43.430]  And this is radio station WBAI New York, where the time is 7.29.
[00:43.490 --> 00:46.410]  Yes, we're a half hour late, but we're going to go a half hour late, too.
[00:46.990 --> 00:49.210]  It's time for Off the Hook.
[00:54.460 --> 00:58.940]  The telephone keeps ringing, so I ripped it off the wall.
[00:59.880 --> 01:01.830]  I cut myself while shaving.
[01:01.830 --> 01:04.470]  Now I can't make a cough.
[01:05.100 --> 01:07.190]  We couldn't get much worse.
[01:07.900 --> 01:09.740]  But if they could, they would.
[01:10.020 --> 01:12.630]  On Diddley Bom, for the best, it's back the worst.
[01:13.320 --> 01:15.180]  I hope that's understood.
[01:15.400 --> 01:16.180]  On Diddley Bom!
[01:47.430 --> 01:49.610]  You've got so many machines, Richard.
[01:50.310 --> 01:52.090]  You've got so many machines, Richard.
[02:40.060 --> 02:42.670]  Okay, I think we got everybody's attention with this.
[02:43.140 --> 02:44.000]  It's Off the Hook.
[02:44.170 --> 02:45.920]  We're on the air for another hour or so.
[02:46.600 --> 02:52.400]  In this, our pre-RNC show, and also our last show for the next couple of weeks.
[02:53.040 --> 02:54.100]  At least, actually.
[02:54.300 --> 02:56.380]  It might be a lot longer than that if the RNC doesn't go too well.
[02:56.960 --> 02:57.680]  It's amazing.
[02:57.880 --> 03:00.860]  You know, everybody seems to have this gloom and doom forecast.
[03:00.860 --> 03:02.780]  I know people who know cops.
[03:02.980 --> 03:03.500]  You know, I do.
[03:04.000 --> 03:07.360]  And all the cops are telling people, don't go anywhere near the demonstration.
[03:07.360 --> 03:08.700]  It's going to be really, really bad.
[03:08.700 --> 03:19.540]  You know, if cops are saying this, that means they're being given that impression by somebody higher up, and it just doesn't look very promising for a nice outcome.
[03:19.640 --> 03:25.480]  And then you have what happened today, where the permit was denied for the rally in Central Park and the Great Lawn.
[03:26.200 --> 03:30.300]  And we're going to have a situation where all these people are going to march up 7th Avenue to the garden.
[03:30.520 --> 03:31.980]  And what's going to happen after that?
[03:32.680 --> 03:33.680]  Anyone want to theorize, Mike?
[03:33.860 --> 03:34.850]  Massive street party.
[03:35.080 --> 03:36.620]  Maybe, but it's not that big a street.
[03:36.620 --> 03:40.240]  Wait, it's right where people wind up.
[03:40.320 --> 03:46.240]  For those of you out of town who are at our conference, right in front of our conference, that's where everybody's going to wind up.
[03:46.380 --> 03:50.320]  That's where the garden is, and that's apparently where the end of the march is.
[03:50.670 --> 03:55.580]  Unless people continue to march up to the park, in which case, you have to wonder, what are they going to do then?
[03:55.740 --> 03:56.820]  They could go into the park.
[03:57.230 --> 03:59.180]  In fact, they're actually starting to say that now.
[03:59.300 --> 04:05.820]  The protest organizers are saying there's nothing to prevent people from going inside the park anyway and protesting on their own.
[04:05.820 --> 04:07.620]  If the weather's nice, it could be fun.
[04:07.860 --> 04:08.580]  It could be a lot of fun.
[04:08.940 --> 04:20.600]  Now, what I suspect might happen, I suspect they might try to block off an entrance to the park, but we're here to tell you alternate ways to get into the park, because they can't close the entire park.
[04:21.290 --> 04:22.560]  And you have every right to be there.
[04:22.680 --> 04:24.140]  What if they did close the entire park?
[04:24.180 --> 04:25.360]  Well, then they'd have to do that.
[04:25.520 --> 04:29.620]  They'd have to go on record as saying, yes, we closed off Central Park to prevent people from going there.
[04:30.800 --> 04:32.640]  That's a good reason, as any, to close it off.
[04:33.000 --> 04:34.800]  Yeah, well, let them try that, all right?
[04:34.800 --> 04:35.400]  Let them try that.
[04:35.460 --> 04:38.380]  That's a good way to spend their efforts during that week.
[04:39.240 --> 04:49.320]  So, the Great Lawn, which is where the protest or the rally is not going to be, but where all kinds of people can go on their own, it's right in the middle of the park.
[04:49.420 --> 04:49.800]  Is that right?
[04:49.980 --> 04:50.940]  That's a good way of putting it.
[04:51.000 --> 04:52.560]  Yeah, right smack in the middle of the park.
[04:53.730 --> 04:54.980]  What street would you say it's near, Jim?
[04:54.980 --> 05:04.180]  Well, it's pretty much bounded by, say, 79th on the south and about 86th on the north.
[05:04.600 --> 05:16.320]  If you enter on the east side, anywhere near the Metropolitan Museum of Art, and there are entrances at about 79th Street at about 83rd, 84th, 85th, somewhere in there.
[05:16.680 --> 05:18.740]  But, Jim, I have plans to be on the west side.
[05:18.740 --> 05:19.940]  We'll get to that in a moment.
[05:20.460 --> 05:25.200]  But, yeah, you enter there, and there are pathways that lead over to the Great Lawn.
[05:25.900 --> 05:30.500]  On the west side, it's just a little to the north of the Museum of Natural History.
[05:30.500 --> 05:35.520]  If you get off at the 81st Street and Central Park West stop of the subway...
[05:35.520 --> 05:36.960]  The 81st Street entrance, it looks like.
[05:37.210 --> 05:40.020]  Yeah, there's a couple a little bit further north.
[05:40.320 --> 05:53.300]  If you miss it by a few blocks because of the large numbers of police or the large numbers of buses parked by the police to keep you out, you know, you can just figure out where you are in the park pretty easily.
[05:53.460 --> 06:02.210]  Yeah, basically, you want to be anywhere, let's see here, anywhere between 79th Street and, it looks like, 84th Street on the way up.
[06:03.210 --> 06:06.520]  And sort of right in the middle of the park, if you look at it vertically.
[06:06.900 --> 06:14.210]  Right, you'll eventually find the park drives, the sort of mild highways that go through Central Park.
[06:14.740 --> 06:22.220]  And, of course, Vaughan Olmstead did a great job of keeping them pretty much disconnected from walkways through the park.
[06:22.440 --> 06:24.280]  So, but you'll, you'll be able to know this.
[06:24.340 --> 06:26.120]  You can even approach it from, from the south, though.
[06:26.540 --> 06:28.720]  59th Street and just kind of walk up and eventually hit it.
[06:29.060 --> 06:31.380]  Or you can even go up to the north and walk down.
[06:31.480 --> 06:37.040]  I think, I think that would probably be the one that the police neglect to guard if they decide to guard the park.
[06:37.060 --> 06:42.480]  But even if they, if they block off the Great Lawn, they'll have all kinds of people massing around the Great Lawn.
[06:42.560 --> 06:43.600]  It's going to be really, really silly.
[06:44.100 --> 06:45.520]  I don't understand the point of this at all.
[06:45.520 --> 06:51.380]  Well, I, I, I put a little effort into thinking about this because, you know, even though I'm a Republican, I'm all for people protesting.
[06:52.000 --> 07:04.710]  And, uh, I, I had a couple of thoughts, which was, number one, yeah, go, go to the, the park, pretend to be just, you know, some sunbathe or dog walk or frisbee thrower, rollerblade or whatever.
[07:05.320 --> 07:07.280]  And, uh, then unfurl your sign.
[07:07.280 --> 07:08.120]  That's fine by me.
[07:08.360 --> 07:16.780]  But I thought a more creative way, you know, Bloomberg keeps talking about how it's going to ruin the park and plants and lawn and grass will die.
[07:17.340 --> 07:19.460]  I think we should bring that home to him.
[07:19.620 --> 07:20.740]  Not exactly home to him.
[07:20.820 --> 07:28.540]  Why should, why should we ruin a 79st or wherever it is he actually lives, but city hall park, it's a, it's a small park.
[07:28.710 --> 07:29.650]  It's just been redone.
[07:29.980 --> 07:44.840]  And I was thinking if every protester went into a supermarket and bought a pound of salt, took it to city hall park and just threw it on the grass on the lawn there, when, when the, the lawn and all the trees died, you could like say to Bloomberg, see,
[07:44.980 --> 07:45.840]  we ruined your park.
[07:45.940 --> 07:47.080]  Is this a Republican tactic?
[07:47.420 --> 07:48.040]  No, not really.
[07:48.280 --> 07:48.520]  Okay.
[07:49.100 --> 07:50.480]  I don't think it's our tactic.
[07:50.660 --> 07:52.460]  I just thought it was a, how about this?
[07:52.740 --> 07:53.220]  How about that?
[07:53.260 --> 07:53.900]  I got a better idea.
[07:54.000 --> 07:57.420]  How about every protester who comes brings a handful of grass seed?
[07:57.840 --> 07:58.060]  All right.
[07:58.120 --> 08:00.560]  And then they simply, they simply sprinkle the grass seed.
[08:00.600 --> 08:02.440]  I hear a voice of agreement there on the telephone.
[08:02.680 --> 08:02.920]  I like that.
[08:03.060 --> 08:04.120]  Sounds like the voice of Bernie S.
[08:04.220 --> 08:04.680]  agreeing with me.
[08:04.980 --> 08:05.240]  Yes.
[08:05.300 --> 08:06.900]  Were any other con seeds for that matter?
[08:07.260 --> 08:08.740]  Uh, well, let's not get out of hand here.
[08:09.020 --> 08:09.560]  Um, yes.
[08:09.980 --> 08:11.860]  Um, what flowers, flowers would be nice.
[08:12.060 --> 08:12.420]  Vegetables.
[08:12.600 --> 08:12.720]  Yeah.
[08:12.840 --> 08:14.040]  But you know, not illegal plants.
[08:14.720 --> 08:16.000]  There are illegal plants.
[08:16.900 --> 08:18.100]  I mean, never heard of that.
[08:18.560 --> 08:20.120]  You've never heard of illegal plants?
[08:20.220 --> 08:21.100]  Breeder reactors.
[08:21.520 --> 08:22.000]  Oh yeah.
[08:22.280 --> 08:24.600]  Well, welcome to the 21st century.
[08:25.280 --> 08:26.220]  Um, so, okay.
[08:26.280 --> 08:29.360]  We have that situation, which is looming and that's happening on Sunday.
[08:29.900 --> 08:30.650]  Uh, yes.
[08:30.800 --> 08:33.280]  And Mike, you're pointing to the big zero on the board there.
[08:33.400 --> 08:34.420]  This is a fundraising show.
[08:34.560 --> 08:42.140]  I know, I know we're going to get into the fundraising, but, uh, let's, let's first put our cards in the table as to what we're going to be discussing tonight because we have some pretty important topics.
[08:42.280 --> 08:43.160]  This is one of them.
[08:43.680 --> 08:46.900]  Uh, definitely what's going to be happening in the next week or so in this city.
[08:47.080 --> 08:49.300]  Uh, it's going to be the focal point of the world.
[08:50.060 --> 08:52.320]  And, um, I've never seen such paranoia.
[08:52.420 --> 08:54.400]  I've never seen such craziness in the streets.
[08:54.780 --> 08:59.480]  You know, people with, uh, machine guns walking around and soldiers and cops everywhere you look.
[08:59.820 --> 09:02.180]  And I don't know the whole place just, uh, on edge.
[09:02.300 --> 09:04.540]  So now you know what's going to happen to us if we don't raise enough funds.
[09:05.880 --> 09:13.020]  It's, the whole thing is really silly because, um, like I was, I was talking about on the other radio show, terrorists don't strike at predictable places.
[09:13.540 --> 09:14.680]  They surprise you.
[09:15.160 --> 09:18.580]  And have they gotten around to finally determining that yesterday's actions were terrorists?
[09:18.680 --> 09:23.420]  Are they still saying that it's a big coincidence that, uh, two planes crashed at the same time and a bomb went off in the city?
[09:24.300 --> 09:25.980]  They're saying it's too big a coincidence.
[09:26.400 --> 09:29.920]  Uh, no, the Russian authorities still refuse to admit that it's really terror.
[09:30.000 --> 09:36.400]  I think if they admit it's terrorism, that's like giving some kind of props to, uh, you know, to the Chechnyans, which they don't want to do.
[09:36.520 --> 09:36.880]  I don't know.
[09:36.960 --> 09:42.400]  The whole thing is really, uh, kind of the, the reverse, the reverse of what, uh, what we're talking about here.
[09:43.190 --> 09:47.260]  Um, but yeah, so we have, uh, we, we have the craziness going on in the streets of New York.
[09:47.430 --> 09:51.600]  Uh, we have, uh, of course the Republicans themselves taking up all kinds of space.
[09:51.740 --> 09:55.580]  And how do we get those little coupons that, uh, Bloomberg's going to give to protesters?
[09:55.660 --> 09:56.220]  You hear about this?
[09:56.710 --> 09:59.720]  Did I ever tell us what, what exactly is the plan?
[10:00.520 --> 10:06.240]  Bloomberg, I'm going to blame it all on Bloomberg because it's really like no one else could come up with anything this silly.
[10:07.540 --> 10:22.190]  Bloomberg is offering peaceful protester buttons where if you're a peaceful, a peaceful political protester, you can get a button to wear and, and show this button for discounts at selected vendors.
[10:22.430 --> 10:25.500]  Is this the kind of button that has a big sharp thing on the back that you could stab people with?
[10:25.720 --> 10:25.860]  I don't know.
[10:25.860 --> 10:29.660]  Well, if you're a peaceful political protester, you can get a discount.
[10:29.900 --> 10:34.210]  There's a discount on, on the play Tina and Tony and Tina's wedding, isn't there?
[10:34.640 --> 10:34.930]  Yeah.
[10:35.040 --> 10:37.660]  And all this, all this stuff that no one I know wants.
[10:38.020 --> 10:38.160]  Right.
[10:38.720 --> 10:40.080]  But the Republicans don't get that.
[10:40.190 --> 10:49.520]  Republicans get discounts or the non-protester people get discounts at another play, but the protesters can only get a discount on Tony and Tina's wedding.
[10:50.080 --> 10:50.930]  The whole thing.
[10:51.120 --> 10:51.240]  Really?
[10:51.340 --> 10:51.900]  I didn't know that.
[10:52.140 --> 10:52.460]  Yes.
[10:53.450 --> 10:54.710]  That's, uh, that's pretty bizarre.
[10:54.960 --> 10:56.520]  I think the whole thing's kind of funny.
[10:56.640 --> 10:59.500]  And I think, uh, the mayor's just trying to be everybody's friend here.
[11:00.000 --> 11:04.840]  Uh, if he wants to be everybody's friend, the best way to do that is to let people express themselves.
[11:05.040 --> 11:07.320]  I think that, that would, uh, make a lot of people his friend.
[11:08.060 --> 11:13.000]  And, uh, and, and it would also ease the tension, which is going to undoubtedly arise as a result of today's ruling.
[11:13.000 --> 11:26.320]  Most of the political protesters I know, um, who are all, of course, peaceful, uh, are, are, are going to be frequenting local businesses rather than the big chains that give them 5% off.
[11:26.340 --> 11:26.480]  Yeah.
[11:26.500 --> 11:35.840]  Because a lot of local businesses are going to be suffering big time, especially those in the zone or around the zone, uh, because of all the stepped up police presence and, and street closures and things like that.
[11:36.000 --> 11:38.960]  So yeah, it's very important that people, people support those, uh, those things.
[11:39.020 --> 11:43.240]  And also that, that you've not let this affect you to the point where it's, it's screwing up your life.
[11:43.440 --> 11:48.020]  So many people I know just are, are putting things on hold while this all plays out.
[11:48.360 --> 11:49.860]  And I think, you know, you have to be there.
[11:49.920 --> 11:50.980]  You have to be part of the process.
[11:50.980 --> 11:56.160]  You have to, uh, make your voice be heard, not allow things to happen that aren't right.
[11:56.720 --> 12:07.640]  And, uh, those things can include stuff like, uh, not letting people voice their opinions, uh, closing off, uh, areas of the city that, uh, shouldn't be closed off, uh, abusing your rights in any kind of a way.
[12:08.640 --> 12:11.380]  You know, a lot of that's going to be happening and we need witnesses to this.
[12:13.140 --> 12:22.760]  Now, another thing that has also happened, uh, non-RNC related, but then again, related to the mentality that's been, uh, uh, spread throughout this country in the past couple of years.
[12:23.200 --> 12:29.500]  Uh, we, we talked about the, the Citigroup issue last week and how they were going to reopen their doors to the atrium.
[12:29.600 --> 12:34.480]  The Citigroup, of course, is the building that we have our 2600 meetings at first Friday of every month.
[12:34.680 --> 12:49.200]  Uh, and Citigroup also was the, uh, alleged target of a terrorist, threat, which actually came in the form of pictures of Citigroup buildings or Citigroup buildings, uh, that were found someplace and they were taken a couple of years ago.
[12:49.320 --> 12:54.340]  And the whole thing is kind of, uh, kind of iffy at best as to whether or not there was, there's actually a true threat.
[12:55.040 --> 12:59.400]  So the latest situation that we have now, yes, the atrium has been reopened.
[12:59.540 --> 13:01.180]  You can walk into the Citigroup building.
[13:01.400 --> 13:09.380]  However, and this is a big, however, they are requiring IDs and bag searches at the door.
[13:10.180 --> 13:19.420]  Now, this is not something that, uh, we're going to tolerate because the, the Citigroup building, the Citigroup building is a public space.
[13:19.640 --> 13:23.480]  Now, what that means is, uh, not the Citigroup building, the atrium inside the Citigroup building.
[13:24.140 --> 13:26.140]  Uh, well, Jim, maybe, maybe you can explain this better than me.
[13:26.220 --> 13:30.900]  That this was given to the, uh, the Citigroup, uh, Citigroup building was built.
[13:31.120 --> 13:32.060]  A lot of buildings.
[13:32.320 --> 13:47.120]  Well, not necessarily built because, but, uh, a lot of buildings in the city of New York by having a public atrium, a public open space were granted, uh, extra height, uh, more floors, more opportunity to make money.
[13:47.380 --> 14:02.800]  And in fact, uh, you know, I'm trying to think of the group, the Municipal Arts, uh, Council, uh, Society, Municipal Arts Society, which is an architecture and better, uh, city, uh, better urban, uh, group that has its headquarters in New York.
[14:02.980 --> 14:09.400]  A few years ago did a study where a lot of these buildings were, were using their atrium for private purposes or closing it or whatever.
[14:09.860 --> 14:12.280]  And hey, this is public space.
[14:12.460 --> 14:17.900]  It was intended that they would be able to make money in exchange for offering an amenity to the public.
[14:17.900 --> 14:19.680]  It's like building a park except it's inside.
[14:20.240 --> 14:20.440]  Exactly.
[14:20.740 --> 14:28.480]  Now the rules, as I understand them, and someone please let me know if I am wrong, but everybody I've talked to so far seems to think, uh, vehemently that, uh, this is the way it's supposed to be.
[14:28.780 --> 14:35.300]  Uh, when you have a public space, it's supposed to be open to the public, no rules, no restrictions, no entry charge, no, uh, closing off.
[14:35.400 --> 14:45.840]  Now, yeah, you know, they, they had an emergency situation, uh, last month maybe, uh, and they are allowed to close it off, I think six times a year, uh, if they announce it in advance.
[14:46.420 --> 14:54.140]  But they cannot, they cannot ask you or demand identification walking into a public space or they searching your bag.
[14:54.300 --> 14:55.040]  I don't even know about that.
[14:55.120 --> 15:07.260]  That's, that seems iffy too, but especially think about it, a hacker meeting inside a building where they take your names, you know, a lot of people come to our meetings who are privacy advocates.
[15:07.520 --> 15:08.780]  They don't want to be identified.
[15:08.960 --> 15:12.900]  That's one of the reasons they're interested in the whole computer hacker world in the first place.
[15:13.620 --> 15:19.840]  So to demand identification from these people and it has to be real identification, that's just not going to fly.
[15:19.980 --> 15:20.600]  I'm sorry.
[15:20.780 --> 15:22.320]  And, and, and what is the point exactly?
[15:22.620 --> 15:24.320]  Do terrorists not carry identification?
[15:24.560 --> 15:25.640]  Do people blow themselves up?
[15:25.740 --> 15:27.700]  Not, not want people to know who they are?
[15:28.080 --> 15:29.420]  It's, the whole thing is absurd.
[15:29.560 --> 15:38.560]  And the final part about all this is that the, um, the people behind it who are, um, who are pushing this, it's not the city.
[15:38.760 --> 15:39.980]  It's not the federal government.
[15:41.520 --> 15:45.900]  It's not Boston properties, the management company in charge of the city group building.
[15:46.220 --> 15:50.700]  So, uh, this isn't, this isn't a government policy because it's illegal.
[15:50.700 --> 15:55.580]  Most likely it's, um, it's an edgy landlord or, or, or something like that.
[15:55.580 --> 15:58.700]  Anyway, we have to, we have to make sure that this does not become the permanent policy.
[15:58.700 --> 16:07.520]  If it does become the permanent policy, you may well see IDs demanded upon entering central park or walking down particular streets or anything like that.
[16:07.740 --> 16:09.180]  I mean, you guys see the threat in this?
[16:09.460 --> 16:10.880]  I've seen the threat before.
[16:11.060 --> 16:18.240]  Why do you think we discussed the Hibble with two eyes case in Nevada, where the guy was, uh, arrested for not giving his identification?
[16:18.900 --> 16:19.180]  Mm-hmm.
[16:19.720 --> 16:20.120]  Absolutely.
[16:20.260 --> 16:20.400]  Bernie?
[16:20.960 --> 16:36.980]  There's two, uh, there's two phone numbers I think I posted to the, uh, uh, off the hook list that, um, our city, uh, agencies where you can complain are the official complaint places for, uh, violations of this, uh, public space policy.
[16:37.080 --> 16:39.660]  One is the, uh, public, uh, department of public planning.
[16:39.820 --> 16:41.240]  I think the others are department of buildings.
[16:41.440 --> 16:41.820]  Is that correct?
[16:42.220 --> 16:43.980]  Uh, yes, you are correct about that.
[16:44.220 --> 16:49.140]  I'm trying to, uh... And I don't have that in front of me, but I'm hoping someone else brought that information with them to the station.
[16:49.340 --> 16:55.440]  I bet if you call 3-1-1 or 2-1-2 New York, you'll reach them after a long and, and heinous process.
[16:55.920 --> 16:58.280]  Yeah, it, it would be a, a long and heinous process.
[16:58.420 --> 17:01.400]  I, I can tell you a website though that has a really good article on all of this.
[17:01.640 --> 17:11.420]  Uh, it's www.gothamgazette, that's g-o-t-h-a-m-g-a-z-e-t-t-e.com slash i-o-t-w slash public space.
[17:11.620 --> 17:12.680]  And it's a great article.
[17:12.900 --> 17:14.900]  Mind you, it's post, uh, pre-rather, 9-11.
[17:15.520 --> 17:24.100]  Uh, but it explains everything about, uh, privately owned public spaces, what they're required to do, how many of them, many of them are violating the rules.
[17:24.140 --> 17:26.500]  You're supposed to have signs up saying that this is a public space.
[17:26.560 --> 17:28.340]  And I know that they don't do that at Citigroup.
[17:28.520 --> 17:29.320]  Hey, you know, that's okay.
[17:29.320 --> 17:30.040]  I don't care about that.
[17:30.080 --> 17:30.460]  They do have signs.
[17:30.760 --> 17:31.960]  Do they have signs saying it's a public space?
[17:31.980 --> 17:32.440]  Where are those signs?
[17:32.460 --> 17:32.880]  It's hard to find.
[17:33.060 --> 17:36.360]  The pillars on the four corners of the floor where we have the meetings.
[17:36.500 --> 17:37.260]  Oh, I'm sorry then.
[17:37.380 --> 17:37.740]  I'm sorry.
[17:37.840 --> 17:38.280]  Take it back.
[17:38.400 --> 17:39.520]  I think they only have it on one pillar.
[17:39.720 --> 17:39.960]  All right.
[17:40.040 --> 17:40.460]  Well, whatever.
[17:40.620 --> 17:42.040]  You know, that's the kind of thing I don't really care about.
[17:42.160 --> 17:44.880]  But, but demanding IDs to go into a public space, no, that's not going to work.
[17:45.140 --> 17:45.900]  It's not going to work.
[17:45.960 --> 17:53.220]  Now, we've also discussed various ways that we can have fun with this policy, including making our own IDs and identifying people in whatever way we choose to identify them.
[17:53.280 --> 17:53.840]  Because what are they going to do?
[17:53.900 --> 18:00.040]  Are they going to say, no, this doesn't look like a real name or what's, you know, this doesn't look like your name or something like that.
[18:00.200 --> 18:02.540]  Anybody have any creative ideas of what we could do?
[18:03.640 --> 18:07.880]  Do these guards have any ability to verify anything that's on an ID?
[18:08.160 --> 18:13.720]  I mean, when they look at the idea, Red Heck pointed this out, when they look at the ID, what are they supposed to do with that?
[18:13.980 --> 18:15.280]  Do they make any note of it?
[18:15.360 --> 18:16.300]  Do they write it down?
[18:16.560 --> 18:17.780]  Do they look it up in some database?
[18:18.000 --> 18:19.060]  No, they just look at this thing.
[18:19.200 --> 18:20.380]  And what does that accomplish?
[18:20.620 --> 18:27.500]  When I went there on Friday, I saw them, they looked at someone's ID, they looked at the back of it, and they let the person go through, and they looked in their bag if they had a bag.
[18:28.360 --> 18:36.440]  So the guards are supposed to know, just from their own memory and their brains, that this is a dangerous person from their name and date of birth?
[18:36.520 --> 18:39.900]  Yeah, that's apparently the level of security that they feel comfortable with.
[18:40.040 --> 18:43.100]  Wait, wait, didn't you know that anyone born on February 30th is a terrorist?
[18:44.230 --> 18:45.160]  Well, that'd be good.
[18:45.200 --> 18:46.060]  Put that on all the IDs.
[18:46.560 --> 18:48.980]  Did you actually go in and present an ID?
[18:49.220 --> 18:49.880]  Did you look at what's...
[18:49.880 --> 18:50.140]  No, I refused to.
[18:50.260 --> 18:51.440]  I said this is illegal.
[18:51.560 --> 18:52.760]  And the guard actually agreed with me.
[18:52.900 --> 18:55.540]  He said, yeah, I know, but it's, you know... He seemed to think it was only temporary.
[18:56.640 --> 18:57.760]  And what that meant, does that mean?
[18:57.900 --> 18:59.200]  Days, weeks, months, years?
[18:59.380 --> 18:59.880]  He had no idea.
[19:00.380 --> 19:01.180]  Obviously, he wouldn't.
[19:01.500 --> 19:05.040]  But I think Boston Properties are the people who do know the answer to this.
[19:05.180 --> 19:08.460]  And I think this is a case, the ACLU, you'll be very interested in.
[19:08.600 --> 19:09.200]  We should call them.
[19:09.340 --> 19:09.740]  We will.
[19:09.820 --> 19:10.020]  We will.
[19:10.100 --> 19:10.460]  We absolutely will.
[19:10.460 --> 19:11.580]  They're kind of busy right now.
[19:12.060 --> 19:15.700]  But we want to see how this plays out on the first Friday and September 1st.
[19:15.700 --> 19:20.020]  And hopefully, hopefully the situation will have calmed down by then.
[19:20.100 --> 19:26.960]  But I just want to make it clear that at no time in the past, present, or future have 2,600 meetings ever required people to identify themselves.
[19:27.200 --> 19:32.780]  And we're not going to change that policy just because of some crazy, you know, paranoia that's in the air.
[19:33.080 --> 19:34.020]  Sorry, it's not going to happen.
[19:34.300 --> 19:37.260]  And we don't want to move either because we like the space and we don't have to move.
[19:37.380 --> 19:38.060]  It's a public space.
[19:38.540 --> 19:38.900]  Exactly.
[19:38.900 --> 19:56.200]  So if you have ideas, if you have ways you can help us, whether it be tracking down legal people, tracking down obscure laws, thinking of creative ways to protest this or challenge this in other ways, write to us, OTH at 2600.com, or send us a snail mail here at the radio station off the hook care of WBAI,
[19:56.320 --> 20:00.040]  120 Wall Street, New York, New York.
[20:00.220 --> 20:01.480]  1-0-0-0-5.
[20:01.780 --> 20:03.760]  Let's give me some extra time there in case you were preoccupied.
[20:03.880 --> 20:04.000]  Thank you.
[20:09.100 --> 20:09.660]  Not yet.
[20:09.780 --> 20:09.940]  Not yet.
[20:10.040 --> 20:10.960]  Okay, we haven't asked for money yet.
[20:10.980 --> 20:12.160]  Well, we didn't even give out a number yet.
[20:12.160 --> 20:12.580]  That's true.
[20:12.880 --> 20:27.700]  But a wild idea would be to, since you're allowed to wear masks in the public space, people can just bring, make either photo IDs of themselves with a mask on or just present a random ID while wearing a mask.
[20:27.820 --> 20:28.840]  But you're not allowed to wear masks.
[20:28.980 --> 20:30.380]  In a public space, you are...
[20:30.380 --> 20:31.980]  That's a violation of the mask law, Leon.
[20:32.000 --> 20:32.260]  No, no, no.
[20:32.320 --> 20:35.000]  That's if there's more than three people who are masked as a group.
[20:35.200 --> 20:38.740]  So I guess if only one person a day wears a mask, you can get away with it or something.
[20:38.740 --> 20:39.680]  A person who's a separate group.
[20:39.680 --> 20:43.140]  But this is not a very good strategy for a meeting with a whole bunch of people.
[20:43.240 --> 20:46.280]  We have about 80 people showing up at the meeting, so I don't think that's going to really be too effective.
[20:46.940 --> 20:51.200]  But as you can see, we do have an issue here that we have to address.
[20:51.500 --> 20:52.420]  We can't just...
[20:53.140 --> 20:57.480]  The problem is if we just accept this, it becomes a precedent.
[20:57.480 --> 20:59.240]  It becomes the way things are.
[20:59.380 --> 21:09.160]  And just like all the crap you see in the streets now with people walking around with machine guns and all the crazy code yellow whatever is going on, you know, people are going to accept that.
[21:09.360 --> 21:14.160]  People are going to accept things like Guantanamo Bay and things like wars against countries for no particular reason.
[21:14.400 --> 21:16.940]  You know, that's going to be the daily course of action.
[21:17.640 --> 21:20.660]  And it's just going to change society even more.
[21:20.820 --> 21:21.880]  So you have to fight these things.
[21:21.980 --> 21:24.520]  Otherwise, you lose and you don't get a second chance.
[21:24.520 --> 21:34.160]  I just wanted to say, because I forgot to say it, that the mask law is a very bad law and blatantly unconstitutional, but still enforced and not worth the trouble.
[21:34.840 --> 21:35.060]  All right.
[21:36.880 --> 21:37.280]  We are...
[21:37.280 --> 21:38.220]  I remember veils, by the way.
[21:38.340 --> 21:40.100]  If you're a veiled...
[21:40.100 --> 21:45.260]  If you're a woman of the Islamic faith who's wearing a veil...
[21:45.260 --> 21:46.320]  I think veils are allowed.
[21:47.060 --> 21:48.480]  Veils are allowed, even though they're masks.
[21:48.500 --> 21:49.940]  I'm certain veils are allowed.
[21:50.020 --> 21:51.620]  I think you would have heard about it if they weren't.
[21:52.160 --> 22:02.140]  But anyway, I wanted to give out the phone number for the fundraising because we are in the middle of a mini-drive here to help raise money for the Republican National Convention...
[22:02.140 --> 22:03.040]  Not the convention.
[22:03.220 --> 22:08.440]  For the Republican National Convention coverage that's taking place on this radio station over the next couple of weeks.
[22:08.600 --> 22:12.500]  And boy, there is a lot of coverage that will be taking place here through all different kinds of programs.
[22:12.620 --> 22:21.460]  Yes, we won't be one of them, but that's okay because we'll be on site doing all kinds of things, you know, having all kinds of sound recorded and pictures taken.
[22:21.620 --> 22:23.660]  And various things to tell you about in two weeks.
[22:24.980 --> 22:35.220]  But on this radio station throughout that week, starting, I believe, on Sunday, maybe even before then, we'll have all kinds of coverage you will not hear anyplace else.
[22:35.340 --> 22:36.760]  But it costs money to do all that.
[22:36.820 --> 22:42.080]  That's why we need your support so that we can continue to do this kind of a thing.
[22:42.180 --> 22:43.040]  It does make a difference.
[22:43.040 --> 22:47.700]  And the RNC is probably one of the biggest things to happen to New York City in a long time.
[22:48.460 --> 22:53.100]  That could change the direction of the country, actually, depending on how things play out there.
[22:53.760 --> 22:56.080]  212-209-2950 is the phone number.
[22:56.140 --> 22:58.940]  And we have a few pledge categories for people.
[22:59.400 --> 23:02.340]  And yes, I know those people have not yet gotten your premiums from last time.
[23:02.480 --> 23:10.940]  As we said last week, they're in the process of being autographed by Kevin Mitnick as an apology from us for the length of time it took.
[23:11.100 --> 23:14.100]  And once we get them back, which should be another week or so, we're going to send them straight out to you.
[23:14.400 --> 23:16.700]  And that goes for those of you who pledged tonight, too.
[23:16.820 --> 23:20.260]  We have the Freedom Downtime DVD, double DVD set.
[23:20.860 --> 23:37.180]  What that is, it's the film Freedom Downtime, the interview with Kevin Mitnick, the deleted scenes, a lot of fun stuff that's hidden away and some stuff that's out there in the open, all kinds of different languages, directors, commentary, you name it.
[23:37.180 --> 23:41.300]  But there's more going on in this DVD set than I think any DVD I've ever seen.
[23:41.440 --> 23:45.360]  And I'm not just bragging about this because I spent so many years of my life on it.
[23:45.940 --> 23:47.120]  I really think it's true.
[23:47.160 --> 23:49.360]  And if you find something with more features on it, please let us know.
[23:49.480 --> 23:50.440]  But you can have that.
[23:50.560 --> 23:53.660]  You can have that along with an off-the-hook t-shirt for a pledge of $75.
[23:55.800 --> 24:00.380]  And actually, you know, that's not a bad deal, even if you were buying it at that price in a store.
[24:00.480 --> 24:03.180]  But you have to understand that you're making a contribution to the radio station.
[24:03.180 --> 24:09.660]  And that's the true meaning of that phone call that you make, the 202-209-2950.
[24:09.980 --> 24:24.660]  Shows like this can continue to be on the air so that coverage of the RNC can continue to exist on the FM dial and not simply play clear channel nonsense or all the other mainstream news that you may hear on a daily basis.
[24:24.660 --> 24:25.720]  You need alternative voices.
[24:25.720 --> 24:27.600]  You need to be able to speak about these things.
[24:27.600 --> 24:29.200]  You need to be able to have an open forum.
[24:29.680 --> 24:31.380]  And that's what that contribution is for.
[24:31.380 --> 24:34.260]  So if you can afford to pledge more than $75, please do.
[24:34.380 --> 24:41.560]  And there's all kinds of other premiums that BAI people have that they'll tell you about when you call up, 212-209-2950.
[24:41.580 --> 24:45.740]  And again, for any pledge $50 or above, you'll get the off-the-hook t-shirt as well.
[24:47.800 --> 24:48.200]  Wow.
[24:48.380 --> 24:54.400]  And there are lesser movies that will cost you more than $75 for a double-disc set.
[24:55.400 --> 24:55.940]  Mm-hmm.
[24:56.220 --> 24:57.500]  Well, that's true, too.
[24:58.000 --> 24:58.620]  That's true, too.
[24:58.620 --> 25:04.160]  I mean, it's not... I mean, you're pledging to support the station, but you're getting some really fine premiums.
[25:04.220 --> 25:05.140]  It's a great value.
[25:05.300 --> 25:05.680]  It is.
[25:05.720 --> 25:08.340]  And we have three calls on the line, so that's a good start.
[25:09.060 --> 25:13.340]  We're only on for an hour, and we're not on next week, so we'd like to see some enthusiasm here.
[25:13.520 --> 25:20.080]  And we'll be taking phone calls, too, later on our regular lines, so you'll have a chance to feedback on some of the issues that we've been talking about.
[25:20.080 --> 25:26.020]  But for now, we'd like to see a strong showing at the pledge line, 2-1-2-2-0-9-2-9-5-0.
[25:26.220 --> 25:27.540]  Please, let's get some calls in.
[25:28.240 --> 25:32.200]  Leo, what do we have as far as other premiums for the radio station?
[25:32.260 --> 25:33.200]  I'm sorry, I'm going to turn your mic on first.
[25:33.200 --> 25:33.460]  Go ahead.
[25:33.680 --> 25:42.400]  The generic WBAI premiums are a cap, a mug, or a tote bag for $65 each.
[25:44.260 --> 25:49.400]  Now, there's also a C-shirt, apparently, which is something that's...
[25:49.400 --> 25:51.980]  Four calls on the line, 2-1-2-2-0-9-2-9-5-0.
[25:52.140 --> 25:56.120]  There's also a silver package, which is the tote bag, the mug, and the cap.
[25:56.260 --> 25:57.480]  That costs $125.
[25:58.140 --> 25:59.560]  So we have all kinds of crap.
[25:59.740 --> 26:06.260]  I mean, I don't mean to say that in a bad way, but, you know, all kinds of, you know, the stuff that you get from pledge drives, you know, and that's great.
[26:06.480 --> 26:15.140]  You know, people should have something to commemorate this contribution that they've made besides just a nice thank you letter and bill or receipt on your credit card statement.
[26:15.620 --> 26:22.300]  But the most important thing that you'll get out of this is a feeling that you are helping New York's only real community radio station.
[26:22.480 --> 26:27.640]  And I say that without fear of much contradiction because there's not much in the way of contradicting voices on the FM dial.
[26:27.780 --> 26:34.000]  It's pretty much all either a commercial entity, NPR, or, you know, something else.
[26:34.360 --> 26:45.600]  But I think we're the only real community voice out there 24 hours a day that's out looking for alternative voices, alternative music, and really making waves all over the world.
[26:45.680 --> 27:09.860]  And this is such a valuable asset, at least in my mind, that it even gets a Republican like me out here in a place where I'm definitely the minority because I see the importance of having the non-mainstream view expressed in the face of megalithic radio stations,
[27:10.180 --> 27:22.300]  megalithic newspapers just putting out the PAP, the chewed-up, tasteless, desiccated, identical...
[27:23.160 --> 27:23.300]  Pablum.
[27:23.300 --> 27:23.700]  Pablum, yes.
[27:23.880 --> 27:25.340]  Well, PAP is even worse.
[27:25.340 --> 27:28.060]  Some great words coming your way here, but those words aren't cheap.
[27:28.400 --> 27:34.480]  So 212-209-2950 is the number to call to help cover the cost of all these words that we have to use.
[27:36.080 --> 27:39.780]  And yes, Jim is a registered Republican, among other registered things.
[27:39.920 --> 27:42.500]  And, you know, you don't need the bodyguard.
[27:42.940 --> 27:44.380]  You can come in here...
[27:44.380 --> 27:45.640]  I'm not worried about the bodyguard.
[27:45.640 --> 27:46.880]  I'm looking at my license.
[27:47.080 --> 27:48.840]  I don't have a license to use those words.
[27:48.920 --> 27:52.480]  You can tell him to stay home and come in here on your own, you know.
[27:52.480 --> 27:53.620]  He has nothing else to do.
[27:54.100 --> 27:56.220]  It's just, you know, all the armor.
[27:56.240 --> 27:57.300]  It just looks kind of weird.
[27:57.880 --> 27:59.640]  Anyway, we have... we've gone into the second row.
[27:59.740 --> 28:00.040]  That's great.
[28:00.160 --> 28:01.480]  That means we have six calls on the line.
[28:01.600 --> 28:03.360]  212-209-2950.
[28:03.560 --> 28:05.200]  Do you know how much Boba Fett costs me?
[28:05.720 --> 28:06.520]  Is that what you call him?
[28:08.600 --> 28:09.520]  So, think about it.
[28:09.560 --> 28:14.200]  I mean, no matter what radio station you listen to, you're probably not going to hear dialogue like this.
[28:14.240 --> 28:15.980]  You're probably not going to hear coverage of the RNC.
[28:16.120 --> 28:19.040]  And I know you're not going to agree with everything that happens on this radio station.
[28:19.040 --> 28:19.820]  God knows I don't.
[28:20.180 --> 28:22.100]  But at least there's a forum.
[28:22.240 --> 28:24.720]  At least there's a chance for listeners to voice their opinion.
[28:24.820 --> 28:28.740]  At least there's a chance for those people who don't get heard anywhere else to have a voice here.
[28:29.400 --> 28:31.080]  And, you know, you'll learn something.
[28:31.660 --> 28:33.000]  Have you learned something from off the hook?
[28:33.360 --> 28:34.360]  You guys have learned something, right?
[28:34.360 --> 28:34.820]  I've learned a lot.
[28:34.920 --> 28:35.100]  All right.
[28:35.160 --> 28:36.080]  Then why aren't you in there pledging?
[28:36.160 --> 28:37.660]  212-209-2950.
[28:37.980 --> 28:38.520]  That's right.
[28:38.620 --> 28:41.300]  Jim's getting his checkbook out, as you should be, too.
[28:41.460 --> 28:43.220]  212-209-2950.
[28:43.700 --> 28:48.520]  Help keep this radio station going because we need to raise money to cover all the RNC expenses.
[28:48.780 --> 28:56.300]  And believe me, I don't know whose idea it was to bring the RNC to this city, thinking that it was going to help the city and make everybody a lot of money.
[28:56.420 --> 28:56.980]  No, it's not.
[28:57.100 --> 28:58.000]  You know, everyone's suffering.
[28:58.260 --> 28:59.180]  I think it will be a big help to the city.
[28:59.380 --> 29:04.560]  We'll get all these, you know, politics, all this organizing hasn't happened in a long time.
[29:04.680 --> 29:06.200]  It's a big help.
[29:06.280 --> 29:07.420]  It has brought a lot of people together.
[29:07.420 --> 29:08.060]  I'll say that.
[29:08.320 --> 29:09.100]  It has brought a lot of people together.
[29:09.220 --> 29:10.640]  But boy, you know, it's a lot of work.
[29:10.780 --> 29:12.060]  A lot of work, a lot of expense.
[29:12.560 --> 29:14.360]  And you got to Pay for these things.
[29:14.640 --> 29:18.940]  So, yes, if you're willing to make that sacrifice, then we can get some good out of all this.
[29:19.100 --> 29:25.200]  We can actually have, you know, alternative coverage and a lot of people will benefit.
[29:25.400 --> 29:26.300]  And this is history.
[29:26.420 --> 29:28.060]  This is history that we're making right now.
[29:28.340 --> 29:31.740]  This is stuff that's going to be archived and remembered for decades to come.
[29:32.040 --> 29:33.640]  And it's all starting in a week.
[29:33.840 --> 29:35.640]  And these are exciting times.
[29:35.680 --> 29:36.180]  They really are.
[29:36.320 --> 29:36.560]  Look at that.
[29:36.620 --> 29:38.040]  We filled up two rows.
[29:38.380 --> 29:39.580]  Ready to go into the third row.
[29:39.680 --> 29:42.220]  212-209-2950.
[29:42.220 --> 29:46.040]  So, please continue this strong response that we're getting now.
[29:48.000 --> 29:49.500]  It's weird, isn't it?
[29:49.560 --> 30:02.880]  I mean, having all the Republicans coming to New York City, it's... I just hear nothing but complaints from people on the street, whether they're vendors, whether they're people who work for the post office, whether they're just college students or whatnot.
[30:02.880 --> 30:04.440]  It's like this big disruption.
[30:04.680 --> 30:07.720]  Like someone throwing a nuclear bomb into the middle of a crowd of people.
[30:07.980 --> 30:10.040]  It's just really something you don't need.
[30:10.200 --> 30:13.460]  Something that kind of messes things up for a good long time.
[30:13.680 --> 30:14.440]  Can you explain that analogy, please?
[30:14.700 --> 30:18.440]  Well, it doesn't have to be nuclear, but just, you know, a big disruption.
[30:18.660 --> 30:20.700]  Something that, you know, basically...
[30:20.700 --> 30:22.580]  Maybe more like a big smoke bomb.
[30:22.740 --> 30:25.180]  I like to think of it more as training for the Olympics.
[30:26.220 --> 30:27.020]  You know...
[30:27.020 --> 30:28.580]  And you can interpret that in two ways.
[30:28.580 --> 30:32.620]  Well, yes, because they want the Olympics to come to this city, and everybody's dead set against that, too.
[30:32.840 --> 30:34.020]  But I don't know if that matters.
[30:34.100 --> 30:39.300]  I don't know if that's something that people are going to actually be able to be empowered to do something about.
[30:39.300 --> 30:47.560]  It has been said that the one good thing that will come out of the Republican National Convention is that we as a city will realize we really do not want the Olympics.
[30:47.780 --> 30:48.760]  Yeah, and we're in the third row.
[30:48.880 --> 30:49.000]  Great.
[30:49.120 --> 30:50.660]  212-209-2950.
[30:50.800 --> 30:54.380]  We have six lines in each row, and we're bouncing all over the place now.
[30:54.480 --> 30:54.720]  That's great.
[30:54.840 --> 30:56.100]  212-209-2950.
[30:56.200 --> 30:57.340]  Leo, do they have enough people down there?
[30:57.340 --> 30:58.280]  Uh, yeah.
[30:59.080 --> 31:01.820]  We'll need more volunteers throughout the day and night.
[31:02.100 --> 31:02.380]  Okay.
[31:02.520 --> 31:05.020]  There's only about five people there, and they go home in about...
[31:05.020 --> 31:07.380]  If I give the signal, though, you're going to run down there and answer phones yourself.
[31:07.600 --> 31:07.800]  Yeah.
[31:08.100 --> 31:09.160]  I do that all the time, anyway.
[31:09.320 --> 31:09.520]  Okay.
[31:09.600 --> 31:11.060]  212-209-2950.
[31:11.580 --> 31:13.260]  So, yeah, we have the Olympic situation.
[31:13.260 --> 31:19.580]  We also have the plan to build a coliseum of some sort in Brooklyn in a heavily populated area.
[31:19.760 --> 31:20.800]  People don't want that either.
[31:27.340 --> 31:27.920]  You need a voice.
[31:28.100 --> 31:29.000]  You need a way to get out there.
[31:29.100 --> 31:35.680]  You need a way to express yourself, tell people what's going on in your life, in your community, and reach other people who care.
[31:35.840 --> 31:39.020]  And that's what a radio station is, and that's why radio stations are so valuable.
[31:39.120 --> 31:42.760]  That's why they're taken over and not allowed to fall into the hands of the people.
[31:42.780 --> 31:46.400]  Because you have a radio station in the hands of people, that's pretty dangerous.
[31:46.540 --> 31:47.280]  Don't you think, Bernie?
[31:47.280 --> 31:48.400]  Yes.
[31:48.540 --> 32:03.560]  As a matter of fact, you'll notice that in virtually all coup d'etats around the world, the first thing that the coup plotters take over is the radio station, because it's such a powerful medium.
[32:03.860 --> 32:08.460]  People listen to the radio to find out what's going on.
[32:08.640 --> 32:26.700]  And coup plotters around the world, and you could argue that our nation has been under a coup d'etat for the past four years, make a specific goal of theirs to take over the mass media, make primarily radio, TV, that sort of thing.
[32:26.880 --> 32:30.600]  Because people, when they hear that on the radio, they think that's what's going on.
[32:30.740 --> 32:35.240]  This is the only radio station I know of in New York that really tells people what's going on.
[32:35.320 --> 32:36.220]  It's a valuable resource.
[32:36.400 --> 32:37.680]  212-209-295.
[32:37.820 --> 32:40.680]  Bernie, I just want to interrupt you for a second, because we have a special announcement.
[32:41.040 --> 32:41.480]  Go ahead.
[32:41.640 --> 32:42.820]  Hey, this is Stevie Dibi.
[32:42.820 --> 32:48.840]  I just want to announce that the Personal Computer Show will be on at 8.30 tonight, because right now is off the hook.
[32:49.420 --> 32:50.120]  Thank you very much.
[32:50.900 --> 32:53.900]  And the Personal Computer Show usually is on at this time.
[32:53.960 --> 32:55.880]  And we're usually on for the hour before this.
[32:55.940 --> 32:56.800]  We start a half hour late.
[32:56.800 --> 32:57.780]  We're going to go a half hour late.
[32:58.240 --> 33:00.880]  All this is happening, of course, on WBAI New York.
[33:00.960 --> 33:01.280]  That's right.
[33:01.340 --> 33:02.000]  That's a legal ID.
[33:02.220 --> 33:03.020]  We're required to do that.
[33:03.380 --> 33:04.120]  Every half hour?
[33:04.420 --> 33:05.160]  No, every hour.
[33:05.300 --> 33:05.420]  Oh.
[33:05.560 --> 33:05.920]  Every hour.
[33:06.000 --> 33:07.960]  And it has to be the call letters followed by the city.
[33:08.800 --> 33:10.160]  A lot of stations don't do that.
[33:10.240 --> 33:13.740]  A lot of those big commercial stations that don't have any people in them, they don't do that.
[33:13.840 --> 33:15.720]  But that's one thing I've got to tell you about this radio station.
[33:15.860 --> 33:16.980]  There's always people here.
[33:17.520 --> 33:19.140]  You know, you listen to the other radio stations.
[33:19.660 --> 33:26.180]  A lot of times you're listening to a computer that's just playing music and playing pre-recorded IDs and things like that, and commercials, of course.
[33:26.640 --> 33:30.760]  But this radio station, right now I'm looking out, I see like seven people in a room next to us.
[33:30.760 --> 33:32.340]  We have a bunch of people in this room.
[33:32.600 --> 33:34.200]  And there's rooms all over the place.
[33:34.240 --> 33:36.460]  Of course, a tally room down the hall where people are answering phones.
[33:36.540 --> 33:37.540]  There are always people here.
[33:37.640 --> 33:38.720]  This is a human place.
[33:38.720 --> 33:41.040]  And that's what we don't want to ever change.
[33:41.320 --> 33:49.920]  And the only reason that we've been able to go this long, since I think 1960 is when we started, is because of people like you who called us and pledged whatever you could afford.
[33:50.260 --> 33:51.980]  212-209-2950.
[33:52.240 --> 33:52.940]  That's our phone number.
[33:52.940 --> 33:55.900]  Again, $50 and above, you'll get the off-the-hook t-shirt.
[33:56.920 --> 34:02.320]  $75 off-the-hook t-shirt plus the Freedom Downtime DVD autographed.
[34:02.360 --> 34:03.220]  I guess I didn't point this out.
[34:03.340 --> 34:04.440]  Autographed by Kevin Mitnick.
[34:04.540 --> 34:04.880]  That's right.
[34:05.160 --> 34:06.240]  Autographed by Kevin Mitnick.
[34:07.380 --> 34:09.080]  That's a valuable thing to have.
[34:09.280 --> 34:10.950]  You're not going to autograph them, the director?
[34:11.370 --> 34:12.780]  I've been asked not to by some people.
[34:12.890 --> 34:13.300]  But okay, fine.
[34:13.450 --> 34:18.160]  I'll autograph them unless you specifically request that I not autograph them.
[34:18.660 --> 34:19.060]  Fine.
[34:19.280 --> 34:22.640]  Kevin Mitnick and myself, Emmanuel Goldstein, will autograph the damn things.
[34:23.080 --> 34:24.620]  And so you'll have that.
[34:24.740 --> 34:25.740]  You can't buy that in stores.
[34:26.200 --> 34:27.430]  You can't even get that through 2600.
[34:27.620 --> 34:29.450]  212-209-2950.
[34:29.660 --> 34:29.870]  That's right.
[34:29.930 --> 34:31.180]  Don't all rush to the phones at once.
[34:31.370 --> 34:33.080]  You know, nice, orderly fashion.
[34:33.200 --> 34:37.680]  I imagine people are fighting for the phone in their homes and various things like that.
[34:37.930 --> 34:40.700]  Also, you might overload the phone system if everybody calls too quickly.
[34:41.260 --> 34:46.500]  Emmanuel, I'd like to request that you not autograph the underside of the DVDs.
[34:46.700 --> 34:47.100]  Oh.
[34:47.740 --> 34:48.840]  That's always where I sign.
[34:48.930 --> 34:49.240]  Okay.
[34:49.240 --> 34:52.140]  Well, I guess I can make a change then for you.
[34:52.660 --> 34:53.180]  Thank you.
[34:54.740 --> 34:59.390]  And we've had a tremendous response to the DVD so far.
[34:59.460 --> 35:00.500]  People have found some Easter eggs.
[35:00.580 --> 35:06.560]  In fact, we're going to be publishing some results in the very near future from those people who found Easter eggs first.
[35:06.680 --> 35:09.600]  But I've got to tell you, not everybody has found...
[35:09.600 --> 35:11.820]  I mean, nobody has found all the Easter eggs yet.
[35:11.980 --> 35:13.280]  All the Easter eggs have not yet been found.
[35:13.320 --> 35:15.540]  Have all the people combined found all the...
[35:15.540 --> 35:19.870]  That's what I was trying to say is that all the people combined have not found all the Easter eggs combined.
[35:20.040 --> 35:23.700]  So, yeah, you've got some digging to do still.
[35:24.270 --> 35:25.370]  I can tell you where they are.
[35:25.480 --> 35:26.220]  Yeah, you know where they are.
[35:26.290 --> 35:26.930]  I know where they are.
[35:27.120 --> 35:28.370]  A couple other people know where they are.
[35:28.430 --> 35:29.770]  But we're all sworn to secrecy.
[35:29.770 --> 35:34.640]  So no amount of money, not even a pledge could get us to reveal that source.
[35:34.950 --> 35:36.060]  Well, I'm not sworn to secrecy.
[35:36.180 --> 35:37.020]  But I don't know where they are.
[35:37.020 --> 35:37.830]  Yeah, but you don't know anything.
[35:38.160 --> 35:38.680]  I didn't mean it.
[35:40.540 --> 35:46.410]  What I meant by that was you don't know anything about the DVD Easter eggs because we didn't tell you about that.
[35:46.460 --> 35:46.580]  Right.
[35:46.850 --> 35:48.200]  Because we knew you couldn't keep your mouth shut.
[35:48.430 --> 35:48.520]  Right.
[35:48.720 --> 35:48.930]  All right.
[35:49.500 --> 35:50.850]  212-209-2950.
[35:51.040 --> 35:52.950]  Please continue to call in.
[35:53.140 --> 35:57.250]  Let's tell people about some of the technology that's going to be in place for the RNC.
[35:58.270 --> 35:59.390]  Forget the megaphones.
[35:59.500 --> 36:05.930]  Police will have a much more high-tech and louder option to make themselves heard over the din of Manhattan traffic and noisy protesters outside the RNC.
[36:05.930 --> 36:16.980]  It's called the Long-Range Acoustic Device developed for the military and capable of blasting warnings, orders, or anything else and an ear-splitting 150 decibels.
[36:18.100 --> 36:18.220]  So...
[36:18.220 --> 36:20.160]  Well beyond the threshold of pain.
[36:20.310 --> 36:22.660]  They're going to have this thing parked.
[36:23.060 --> 36:28.060]  They're 45-pound acoustic sound machines that cost $35,000 apiece.
[36:28.220 --> 36:32.750]  They're going to mount them on Humvees, which will be outside Madison Square Garden.
[36:32.960 --> 36:41.460]  Now, this is the first time in history that this instrument, which can beam sounds for 300 yards or more, has been used by a civilian force.
[36:41.750 --> 36:43.100]  I have a fact to share.
[36:43.290 --> 36:44.120]  Well, what fact is that, Mike?
[36:44.200 --> 36:44.810]  I have a fact.
[36:45.270 --> 36:47.080]  I didn't know this fact until today.
[36:47.720 --> 36:54.560]  The New York Police Department has a larger budget than all but 19 of the world's standing armies.
[36:56.140 --> 36:57.180]  That's incredible.
[36:57.390 --> 36:58.560]  Is that verified?
[36:58.810 --> 36:59.330]  That's amazing.
[36:59.480 --> 37:01.640]  It was printed in the New York Times, which never lies.
[37:02.000 --> 37:03.290]  Oh, well...
[37:03.290 --> 37:04.460]  I see a contradiction.
[37:04.700 --> 37:06.660]  We have some mixed feelings about that, but wow.
[37:07.160 --> 37:08.220]  So, repeat that again.
[37:08.500 --> 37:12.310]  The budget for the New York City Police is more than...
[37:13.230 --> 37:13.750]  More...
[37:13.750 --> 37:21.580]  The budget of the New York City Police Department is larger than the budget of all but 19 of the world's standing armies.
[37:21.580 --> 37:21.620]  Nice.
[37:22.770 --> 37:23.080]  Wow.
[37:23.620 --> 37:28.770]  I guess, you know, if we name some countries, that would probably really hit people hard.
[37:29.000 --> 37:34.790]  You know, if they knew that the budget was more than, say, the Army of Australia or something like that, that would be kind of interesting.
[37:34.950 --> 37:36.060]  I'm not so sure about Australia.
[37:36.160 --> 37:37.180]  Well, I'll just use that as an example.
[37:37.410 --> 37:38.140]  New Zealand, certainly.
[37:38.560 --> 37:39.930]  Yeah, I would go for New Zealand.
[37:40.180 --> 37:40.480]  All right.
[37:41.290 --> 37:43.910]  But I'm sure, you know, the biggest country of those...
[37:43.910 --> 37:44.750]  Like, number 20.
[37:45.060 --> 37:46.460]  That would really shock people, probably.
[37:47.270 --> 37:47.640]  Yes, later.
[37:47.720 --> 37:48.410]  Do you think Russia's one of them?
[37:49.160 --> 37:49.480]  No.
[37:49.640 --> 37:49.870]  All right.
[37:49.870 --> 37:53.410]  But the acoustic voice, what about the cops in the general area?
[37:53.890 --> 37:55.480]  Oh, they'll have things over their ears.
[37:55.540 --> 37:56.370]  You can bet on that.
[37:56.870 --> 37:58.520]  But they're going to use this.
[37:58.600 --> 38:03.100]  According to the cops, they're going to use this to direct crowds to safety following a terrorist attack.
[38:03.100 --> 38:09.660]  Yeah, it's for our own safety or other calamities, such as an earthquake or a cyclone or a monster or whatever.
[38:10.160 --> 38:14.250]  And also, reminding protesters where they're allowed to march and rally.
[38:14.430 --> 38:16.140]  Gee whiz, do you think that's what they're going to be doing?
[38:16.640 --> 38:20.390]  Telling people, do not, do not go to Central Park.
[38:20.600 --> 38:21.500]  Do not go to Central Park.
[38:21.500 --> 38:22.870]  It's going to be saying that over and over again.
[38:22.950 --> 38:23.980]  Do not go to Central Park.
[38:24.100 --> 38:28.980]  And an ear splitting 150 decibels and everyone's going to be writhing on the ground in agony.
[38:30.060 --> 38:32.480]  And that's going to be a successful mission for the police.
[38:32.480 --> 38:34.950]  We mentioned this thing a year or so ago.
[38:35.140 --> 38:45.450]  The Marines were coming up with this as a non-lethal weapon because you just crank it up all the way and you want to get out of the range of it.
[38:45.520 --> 38:47.450]  No matter what you say, you're put over the sound.
[38:47.580 --> 38:57.720]  A lot of things are non-lethal that really suck and really are unpleasant, including, you know, spraying mace in people's eyes, which they've done.
[38:57.830 --> 39:00.540]  Not the New York City police, I know of, but other police departments have done that.
[39:00.660 --> 39:03.220]  And that's the kind of thing that, yeah, you can say it's non-lethal.
[39:03.310 --> 39:06.160]  Rubber bullets are supposedly non-lethal, but people have died because of it.
[39:06.480 --> 39:06.950]  Emmanuel?
[39:07.160 --> 39:07.350]  Yes?
[39:07.620 --> 39:23.390]  It's worth noting that the threshold of pain is about 110 dB, about 110 decibels, which is roughly as loud as a jet engine from a large jetliner standing near it on the tarmac.
[39:23.500 --> 39:25.460]  That's about 110 dB.
[39:25.830 --> 39:36.250]  And for our listeners who aren't aware of this with the mathematics involved, every additional 3 dB of every additional 3 dB is a doubling of the sound level.
[39:36.560 --> 39:49.350]  So take it from there all the way up to 150 dB, you are so far beyond the threshold of pain that it's to the point of literally injurious sound levels.
[39:49.680 --> 39:50.960]  Yeah, that sure sounds that way.
[39:50.980 --> 39:53.390]  And those guys in the tarmac, 110 decibels, you said?
[39:53.770 --> 39:56.310]  Yeah, and they're wearing ear-protected ear coverings.
[39:56.310 --> 39:59.600]  They're wearing big ear things and, you know, they're protecting their ears.
[39:59.720 --> 40:07.040]  So I don't know if they're going to make it illegal to wear things on your ears now because you can't wear bulletproof vests, you can't wear a gas mask, you can't wear masks of any sort.
[40:07.560 --> 40:08.480]  So who knows?
[40:08.480 --> 40:10.220]  They might say protecting your ears is now illegal.
[40:10.620 --> 40:15.560]  North Korea has the 20th largest military budget Oh, they must be so angry.
[40:15.770 --> 40:16.310]  They must be.
[40:16.810 --> 40:18.000]  What are the odds of that?
[40:18.350 --> 40:22.410]  So North Korea just slipped under the threshold and the New York City police budget is bigger than...
[40:22.410 --> 40:24.370]  Wait a minute, they have a big military in North Korea.
[40:24.390 --> 40:25.500]  They have a giant military.
[40:25.890 --> 40:30.220]  You're saying the New York City police budget is higher than North Korea's military budget?
[40:30.430 --> 40:32.540]  Well, they don't have very much money in North Korea.
[40:32.660 --> 40:33.500]  Right, what are they buying?
[40:33.640 --> 40:38.790]  They're buying infantry, they're buying guns, rifles, we're spending it on high-tech things like this.
[40:39.380 --> 40:43.410]  And Mexico, right underneath them, Singapore, Sweden, Argentina.
[40:43.410 --> 40:44.330]  They've got to be way down there.
[40:44.390 --> 40:44.850]  Where's Cuba?
[40:44.960 --> 40:46.580]  They've got to be like a hundred and something.
[40:46.790 --> 40:47.960]  I see an Olympic sport.
[40:48.680 --> 40:50.540]  NYPD versus ex-army.
[40:51.500 --> 40:52.890]  Okay, I found Cuba, the number 67.
[40:53.580 --> 40:53.850]  See?
[40:54.060 --> 40:55.910]  And they're supposed to be a threat to the United States?
[40:56.040 --> 40:57.980]  Yeah, right between Sudan and Lebanon.
[40:58.930 --> 41:00.250]  Okay, well, that's very interesting.
[41:00.310 --> 41:02.140]  There's a lot of shooting going on in Sudan and Lebanon.
[41:02.200 --> 41:06.120]  It doesn't mean that if you have a low budget, it doesn't mean you can't do things.
[41:06.270 --> 41:22.810]  I almost got run over by a cop a few days ago, actually, walking down the street, all right, in the East Village, I haven't told you guys this yet, but just walking across the street, this cop comes flying through the intersection without any kind of emergency lights or anything like that,
[41:22.890 --> 41:33.080]  about 40 miles an hour, and did not stop or slow down at the red light, and, you know, one step further as far as me walking, if I had been one step ahead, I would have been hit by this guy.
[41:33.410 --> 41:35.040]  So I was outraged.
[41:35.140 --> 41:41.020]  I was outraged by this, that this guy just, you know, it's bad enough that they go through red lights in the city, and I'm sure we've all seen this.
[41:41.100 --> 41:44.250]  We've all seen cops going through red lights without going somewhere in an emergency.
[41:44.960 --> 41:51.620]  But to just simply fly by and not even check to see if anybody is crossing, that, to me, is crossing the line.
[41:51.660 --> 41:55.810]  So I got really mad at this, and I called 911 on my phone.
[41:55.830 --> 42:08.700]  I even had the car number, which I don't have anymore because it fell out of my head, but I called them, and I said, look, I'd like to complain about this police car that ran through a red light without any lights flashing or anything like that, and I almost got hit by it.
[42:09.330 --> 42:10.220]  I got hung up on.
[42:10.500 --> 42:12.910]  I got hung up the first time I got hung up on the second time.
[42:13.000 --> 42:18.960]  The third time, the third time, if it's not an emergency, why don't they tell me where to call at least instead of hanging up on me?
[42:19.330 --> 42:21.950]  That doesn't really seem fair there.
[42:22.220 --> 42:25.640]  Third time, they said, well, we have no way of communicating with the police.
[42:25.890 --> 42:28.160]  I said, what do you mean you have no way of communicating with the police?
[42:28.330 --> 42:29.140]  You're 911.
[42:29.580 --> 42:33.250]  But that's literally And I said, sorry, there's nothing we can do about it.
[42:33.450 --> 42:34.600]  Nothing we can do about it.
[42:34.660 --> 42:35.750]  Couldn't tell me who to call.
[42:36.160 --> 42:37.460]  Couldn't file a complaint.
[42:37.680 --> 42:41.980]  Couldn't even pass a message along to ask them to please stop driving through red lights without lights flashing.
[42:42.850 --> 42:44.220]  And then, get this.
[42:44.410 --> 42:45.500]  This is from my cell phone.
[42:45.930 --> 42:47.950]  A half hour later, my cell phone rings.
[42:48.370 --> 42:50.720]  It's the police wanting to know where the emergency is.
[42:51.390 --> 42:53.390]  A half hour later, they say, wait a minute.
[42:53.560 --> 42:54.310]  You called us.
[42:54.350 --> 42:55.120]  You must want something.
[42:55.310 --> 42:56.160]  And they called me back.
[42:56.820 --> 42:58.790]  And I said, there's no... you know, and I explained it to them.
[42:58.830 --> 43:00.430]  And they said, oh, there's nothing we can do about that.
[43:01.680 --> 43:01.960]  No.
[43:01.960 --> 43:03.140]  How crazy is that?
[43:03.250 --> 43:03.910]  We're only the police.
[43:04.000 --> 43:04.960]  We can't do anything about that.
[43:05.060 --> 43:09.330]  So, what I want to do, what I want to do here is ask other people if similar things have happened to them.
[43:09.390 --> 43:10.540]  And what can we do about this?
[43:10.910 --> 43:14.750]  You know, I understand that cops don't want to wait at red lights.
[43:14.890 --> 43:16.270]  Yeah, you know, neither the garbage trucks.
[43:16.370 --> 43:16.960]  And they go through them, too.
[43:17.080 --> 43:18.770]  But you can't sail through the things.
[43:18.790 --> 43:19.790]  You're going to kill somebody.
[43:20.060 --> 43:22.580]  And I think we need a way of reporting when that happens.
[43:22.580 --> 43:25.870]  Come to a full stop, fine, go through, whatever, if that's what you have to do.
[43:25.890 --> 43:30.640]  Although, it seems to me that you could catch somebody committing a crime by sitting still watching, too.
[43:30.810 --> 43:31.520]  But never mind that.
[43:32.040 --> 43:33.870]  I just think it's wrong for them to be sailing through.
[43:33.960 --> 43:35.390]  And I think there needs to be a way to complain.
[43:35.600 --> 43:39.060]  You could complain to the civilian complaint review board, but it won't get you anywhere.
[43:39.250 --> 43:39.870]  Well, how do you do that?
[43:40.310 --> 43:40.750]  I don't know.
[43:40.850 --> 43:41.290]  Call them up.
[43:41.460 --> 43:42.220]  How do you call them up?
[43:42.500 --> 43:43.500]  They must be in the phone book.
[43:43.800 --> 43:45.440]  Call 311-212-NewYork.
[43:45.500 --> 43:45.840]  You know what?
[43:46.000 --> 43:47.200]  I'm going to do that right now.
[43:47.320 --> 43:49.100]  It didn't work from this time last time we tried it.
[43:49.120 --> 43:50.540]  We're going to try it very carefully this time.
[43:50.540 --> 43:51.980]  Before you do that...
[43:51.980 --> 43:52.700]  I'm doing it right now.
[43:52.920 --> 43:54.360]  I sound like I'm in an echo chamber.
[43:54.770 --> 43:56.180]  We're going to thank the people in a second.
[43:56.520 --> 43:59.270]  But 212-New York, you say?
[43:59.960 --> 44:00.360]  Yes.
[44:01.200 --> 44:06.290]  And those of you at home, call 212-209-2950 and pledge, please, please.
[44:06.660 --> 44:07.750]  I hope we don't get that lady again.
[44:08.300 --> 44:09.100]  Let's see what happens.
[44:11.840 --> 44:14.250]  Thank you for calling the City of New York.
[44:14.250 --> 44:18.020]  If this is an emergency, please hang up and call 9-1-1.
[44:18.820 --> 44:22.640]  Alternate side parking regulations are in effect today and tomorrow.
[44:22.820 --> 44:23.340]  That's good to know.
[44:23.400 --> 44:26.080]  Your call may be recorded for quality purposes.
[44:26.480 --> 44:28.880]  Please hold for the next available representative.
[44:29.460 --> 44:31.320]  I thought you had to select something.
[44:31.790 --> 44:32.270]  Okay.
[44:32.520 --> 44:33.580]  So I talk to a human now.
[44:34.640 --> 44:35.060]  Eventually.
[44:35.200 --> 44:35.580]  Eventually?
[44:35.960 --> 44:37.040]  Well, how long does it take to get a human?
[44:37.750 --> 44:38.660]  This is Antoine.
[44:39.540 --> 44:40.180]  Yes, hi.
[44:40.270 --> 44:48.300]  I was wondering, what number would I call to complain about a police car that went through a red light without flashing its lights or anything like that?
[44:48.580 --> 44:49.500]  Police misconduct?
[44:49.680 --> 44:49.980]  Yes.
[44:50.100 --> 44:50.640]  Police misconduct.
[44:50.700 --> 44:51.320]  How do I do that?
[44:52.060 --> 44:54.580]  That's what you call a civilian complaint review board.
[44:54.750 --> 44:54.940]  Okay.
[44:55.220 --> 44:56.500]  Do you have a final paper with you, sir?
[44:56.560 --> 44:57.040]  Yes, I do.
[44:57.250 --> 44:59.700]  I'm going to provide you with a telephone number for this service.
[44:59.900 --> 45:00.420]  Thank you so much.
[45:00.560 --> 45:06.160]  This report, unnecessary use of force, abuse of authority, discourage, offensive language by a police official.
[45:07.020 --> 45:07.380]  Okay.
[45:07.460 --> 45:08.360]  This is a civilian complaint.
[45:09.900 --> 45:12.320]  Uh, what's...
[45:12.320 --> 45:13.160]  Okay.
[45:14.320 --> 45:16.940]  Thank you for calling the civilian complaint review board.
[45:17.000 --> 45:17.660]  You didn't give me the number.
[45:18.270 --> 45:20.660]  Gracias por llamar a la junta de quea.
[45:20.960 --> 45:21.940]  What's a pen and pencil for?
[45:22.420 --> 45:24.800]  To continue in English, press one.
[45:25.360 --> 45:27.500]  Para continuar en español.
[45:28.060 --> 45:36.520]  The civilian complaint review board is an independent agency that investigates complaints made against officers of the New York City Police Department.
[45:44.020 --> 45:52.360]  The civilian complaint review board does not investigate complaints made against civilian employees of the New York City Police Department.
[45:53.340 --> 45:58.900]  If you are calling to file a complaint against an officer of the New York City Police Department, press one.
[45:58.900 --> 46:04.040]  For further information on the civilian complaint review board, press two.
[46:04.440 --> 46:07.380]  To repeat these choices, press eight.
[46:07.380 --> 46:17.400]  If you are calling, before we can begin taking your complaint, please answer the following two questions by pressing the number that corresponds to your answer.
[46:18.320 --> 46:22.700]  Were you injured by a police officer within the last 24 hours?
[46:23.200 --> 46:24.770]  Press one for yes.
[46:25.080 --> 46:26.640]  Press two for no.
[46:27.300 --> 46:32.320]  In just a moment, you'll be asked a series of questions about what happened to you.
[46:32.500 --> 46:36.160]  But first, you need to provide us with some information about yourself.
[46:36.680 --> 46:43.250]  Please speak slowly and clearly and be advised that this conversation is being recorded.
[46:43.250 --> 46:44.480]  Okay, this is where I get off.
[46:45.000 --> 46:48.520]  This is where I leave this little conversation now.
[46:48.700 --> 46:49.720]  And hang on a second.
[46:49.880 --> 46:51.020]  Let me try to disconnect that line.
[46:51.880 --> 46:52.560]  Hold on, Bernie.
[46:53.520 --> 46:54.140]  Actually, you know what?
[46:54.250 --> 46:54.860]  They're on hold.
[46:55.100 --> 46:55.900]  Are you still there, Bernie?
[46:56.160 --> 46:56.720]  I'm still here.
[46:56.750 --> 46:56.920]  Okay.
[46:57.140 --> 46:59.180]  They're just going to be on hold for a second.
[46:59.480 --> 47:00.290]  Hopefully, they'll disconnect.
[47:01.140 --> 47:02.680]  But that, folks, is how you do it.
[47:03.380 --> 47:05.420]  311 or 212 New York.
[47:06.140 --> 47:09.680]  And you can at least go through the motions and hopefully get some kind of a response.
[47:09.680 --> 47:12.380]  So that's, you know, it would have been a nice thing for them to tell me.
[47:13.160 --> 47:16.270]  Would you say it was an excessive force running the vehicle through the red light?
[47:16.270 --> 47:17.400]  No, I think it was abuse of authority.
[47:17.480 --> 47:18.380]  That's what I think it would be.
[47:18.560 --> 47:19.660]  It's a good argument.
[47:19.800 --> 47:24.440]  I would argue it's an excessive force because it was kinetic force that they used excessively through the red light.
[47:25.140 --> 47:26.940]  Well, you can have that conversation with them.
[47:27.220 --> 47:29.080]  212-209-2950 is our phone number.
[47:29.180 --> 47:29.920]  We're up to $450.
[47:30.300 --> 47:32.660]  You know, I was hoping that we'd be up to $1,000 by now.
[47:32.860 --> 47:33.800]  So, folks, come on.
[47:33.900 --> 47:35.200]  We only have a few minutes left.
[47:35.200 --> 47:37.300]  So, please call in with those pledges.
[47:37.380 --> 47:38.880]  212-209-2950.
[47:38.880 --> 47:40.880]  And, again, as we said, we'll be taking phone calls.
[47:40.980 --> 47:45.000]  212-209-2900 for those of you who have feedback on any of the things we've talked about.
[47:45.220 --> 47:51.200]  RNC, Citigroup, police abuse, anything else that might be on your mind affecting the hacker community.
[47:51.340 --> 47:54.360]  Some people have already called that number, and we would like to thank them.
[47:55.160 --> 47:56.790]  We want to thank Chris from Brooklyn.
[47:57.700 --> 48:01.500]  Jeff, who's also from Brooklyn and spells his name with a G.
[48:02.180 --> 48:02.770]  What, G-Jeff?
[48:02.980 --> 48:03.200]  Yes.
[48:03.340 --> 48:04.220]  Yeah, where is G-Jeff?
[48:04.320 --> 48:05.250]  We haven't heard from him in a while.
[48:05.320 --> 48:05.980]  I have no idea.
[48:06.400 --> 48:08.160]  G-Jeff, if you're out there, please, your email's bouncing.
[48:08.160 --> 48:09.860]  So, send us something.
[48:10.700 --> 48:13.620]  We have Yukari from New York, from Manhattan.
[48:14.290 --> 48:16.380]  We have Matthew from Chattanooga, Tennessee.
[48:16.750 --> 48:17.160]  Oh, right.
[48:17.320 --> 48:17.580]  Tennessee.
[48:17.980 --> 48:20.000]  And Mark from West Des Moines, Iowa.
[48:20.440 --> 48:21.000]  West Des Moines.
[48:21.080 --> 48:22.900]  Those people in West Des Moines, they always come through, you know?
[48:22.900 --> 48:24.120]  Iowa, the salt of the earth.
[48:24.220 --> 48:24.400]  Yeah.
[48:24.520 --> 48:27.700]  I mean, I'm not saying anything bad about regular Des Moines, but West Des Moines.
[48:27.800 --> 48:29.100]  There's something special about that place.
[48:29.760 --> 48:31.140]  212-209-2950.
[48:31.380 --> 48:32.220]  Please pledge your support.
[48:32.360 --> 48:37.920]  Remember, this is the only way we can continue doing this kind of thing, and the kind of thing that we're going to be doing in the next 10 days or so.
[48:38.520 --> 48:40.640]  And those of you online can listen, by the way.
[48:40.750 --> 48:44.900]  You don't have to be in our listenership, in the range of our signal.
[48:45.660 --> 48:47.540]  Even when Off the Hook is not on the air, you can listen.
[48:47.900 --> 48:48.940]  Go to the 2600 website.
[48:49.100 --> 48:51.440]  There's a link there that takes you right to the BAI streaming.
[48:51.440 --> 48:52.900]  You can hear all the Republican fun.
[48:53.540 --> 49:02.820]  And while we're thanking people, I would like to thank Cobalt from Atlanta, who lent us a Cisco router for the Independent Media Center, and it is currently in use.
[49:02.980 --> 49:03.520]  Thank you very much.
[49:03.560 --> 49:03.720]  Yes.
[49:03.820 --> 49:11.800]  Off the Hook listeners have really come through to help the Indy Media site do what I think is going to be a very essential part of the independent media coverage.
[49:12.000 --> 49:14.290]  And Bernie, you had a role in this, too, didn't you?
[49:14.940 --> 49:15.540]  Oh, yeah.
[49:16.640 --> 49:31.380]  The machine that we used to print, the ID card machine that we used to print the H2K badges, which is in my, or was in my possession, is now in New York, and printing photo ID badges, courtesy of Mike, who's putting a lot of work into this, to print badges,
[49:31.380 --> 49:33.160]  which is a requirement of the building you're in.
[49:33.200 --> 49:33.520]  Is that right?
[49:33.820 --> 49:34.220]  Right.
[49:34.520 --> 49:39.860]  You have to show an ID to get into the building, and our IDs are much cooler than any one you would already have.
[49:40.040 --> 49:43.220]  Now, you see, we're not objecting to that, because that's a building.
[49:43.220 --> 49:44.720]  You're going into a private building.
[49:44.980 --> 49:47.040]  And yeah, okay, you know, we have to show ID to get into this building.
[49:47.360 --> 50:02.820]  Not a big deal, but to show ID to get into a public space, that's a big deal, and it's going to, it's a very bad precedent to set, and especially for people in the computer hacker culture who are always looked upon as major threats and cyber terrorists and things like that.
[50:03.040 --> 50:04.720]  You know, we don't need that extra added hassle.
[50:04.900 --> 50:06.270]  Okay, 212-209-2900.
[50:06.380 --> 50:07.080]  Let's take some phone calls.
[50:07.700 --> 50:08.380]  And good evening.
[50:08.460 --> 50:08.920]  You're on the air.
[50:10.160 --> 50:11.220]  You know what the problem is?
[50:11.220 --> 50:12.060]  I'll tell you what the problem is.
[50:12.420 --> 50:15.380]  These phone numbers, these phone lines, they keep bouncing around.
[50:15.560 --> 50:19.220]  So when someone calls on line one, it rings four times and bounces over to line two, then three.
[50:19.300 --> 50:21.200]  And by the time I get to it, it's bounced to a different line.
[50:21.400 --> 50:22.160]  Let me try over here now.
[50:22.270 --> 50:22.520]  Good evening.
[50:22.600 --> 50:23.020]  You're on the air.
[50:23.700 --> 50:24.460]  See, it happened again.
[50:24.720 --> 50:25.400]  Now they're over here.
[50:25.560 --> 50:26.270]  I'm going to catch up to them.
[50:26.340 --> 50:26.600]  Good evening.
[50:26.680 --> 50:27.120]  You're on the air.
[50:27.620 --> 50:28.180]  Good evening.
[50:28.360 --> 50:28.700]  How you doing?
[50:28.900 --> 50:29.140]  Good.
[50:29.750 --> 50:33.580]  As far as the problem with the police going through the intersection, I agree with you.
[50:33.680 --> 50:35.800]  They're the absolute worst drivers in the city.
[50:36.020 --> 50:37.140]  Worse than the cab drivers.
[50:37.340 --> 50:38.980]  The cab drivers are pretty good for the most part.
[50:39.300 --> 50:41.120]  Well, you know, they work those 12-hour shifts.
[50:41.270 --> 50:42.520]  It wears them down after a while.
[50:42.700 --> 50:43.660]  Yeah, they know the rules, though.
[50:43.750 --> 50:44.250]  They know the rules.
[50:44.400 --> 50:47.000]  There are three kinds of vehicles that go through red lights.
[50:47.120 --> 50:51.720]  The police, the garbage trucks, and for some reason, New York Daily News trucks.
[50:53.800 --> 50:55.000]  Not New York Times trucks.
[50:55.120 --> 50:57.040]  New York Daily News trucks just go through all the red lights.
[50:57.100 --> 50:58.520]  I don't know why they do it or how they get the right.
[50:58.580 --> 50:59.440]  They never get pulled over.
[50:59.440 --> 51:04.800]  Well, what I would have done is I would have taken note of the number which is on every PD car.
[51:05.040 --> 51:05.840]  They have a number.
[51:06.040 --> 51:13.480]  If you can get a note of that, note down the time, and then call the switchboard number of the NYPD, ask for internal affairs, and take it from there.
[51:13.480 --> 51:16.420]  Because I think they're more afraid of the internal affairs department.
[51:16.600 --> 51:19.380]  They are of any pissant civilian refute.
[51:20.040 --> 51:21.600]  Nobody even pays attention to those people.
[51:22.180 --> 51:24.220]  Yeah, I think you might be right about that.
[51:24.340 --> 51:28.380]  But the thing is to at least complain to somebody about it and not let them get away with things like this.
[51:28.500 --> 51:30.680]  Because, you know, there are people walking in the streets.
[51:30.680 --> 51:33.660]  They should not be at risk from that as well.
[51:33.880 --> 51:34.320]  I agree.
[51:34.600 --> 51:34.860]  All right.
[51:35.020 --> 51:35.750]  Thanks very much.
[51:35.860 --> 51:36.840]  I do have one other question.
[51:37.000 --> 51:37.180]  Yes.
[51:37.180 --> 51:42.920]  Are they still running the Mumia al-Jumar thingamajigs on the news?
[51:43.040 --> 51:44.100]  Mumia al-Jumar commentaries.
[51:44.140 --> 51:47.120]  Yes, they run quite a lot, actually, on Free Speech Radio News.
[51:47.250 --> 51:50.140]  And the station will never get a dime of my money until they get rid of him.
[51:50.300 --> 51:52.320]  So do we have to all agree on everything?
[51:53.480 --> 51:59.680]  Well, I think we can agree that murderers should not be allowed to have their own commentary on the news if you want my money.
[52:00.750 --> 52:02.720]  Are there a lot of other good programming on this station?
[52:03.300 --> 52:10.320]  Um, there's your show, and then there's the personal computer show, and everything else on the station is garbage.
[52:10.540 --> 52:11.040]  Oh, wait.
[52:11.040 --> 52:13.680]  Hour of the Wolf is a great sci-fi and fantasy show.
[52:13.800 --> 52:18.360]  I think you need to listen to the station a little bit more, because to say a blanket statement like that, everything else is garbage.
[52:18.540 --> 52:21.020]  You know, you're saying old-time radio is garbage?
[52:21.100 --> 52:22.250]  You're saying that Democracy Now!
[52:22.250 --> 52:22.660]  is garbage?
[52:22.840 --> 52:24.340]  You're saying that, you know...
[52:24.340 --> 52:25.040]  Democracy Now!
[52:25.160 --> 52:25.460]  Yes.
[52:25.600 --> 52:25.800]  All right.
[52:25.840 --> 52:26.720]  Well, maybe you believe that.
[52:26.840 --> 52:29.080]  But there are so many different kinds of programs.
[52:29.300 --> 52:29.660]  Weaponry.
[52:29.700 --> 52:30.790]  That sounds like something you might like.
[52:31.020 --> 52:31.980]  Do you have a weaponry show?
[52:32.000 --> 52:32.580]  Yes, we do.
[52:32.580 --> 52:33.340]  Every Tuesday night.
[52:33.560 --> 52:34.420]  What's it called, weaponry?
[52:34.500 --> 52:35.120]  It's called weaponry.
[52:35.250 --> 52:35.720]  Tom Whisker.
[52:35.820 --> 52:36.820]  Tuesday night's 1.30.
[52:37.140 --> 52:37.340]  Huh.
[52:37.480 --> 52:38.460]  1.30 a.m.?
[52:38.460 --> 52:38.700]  Yes.
[52:39.020 --> 52:41.020]  You know, us weaponry guys need to get our sleep.
[52:41.140 --> 52:42.000]  I don't know if I'm going to be up on the train.
[52:42.000 --> 52:42.840]  Well, you can tape it.
[52:42.900 --> 52:43.440]  You can tape it.
[52:43.500 --> 52:46.270]  I'll tell you what, if you like that, consider pledging just for that.
[52:46.480 --> 52:46.860]  All right.
[52:46.920 --> 52:47.560]  I'll check out that show.
[52:47.560 --> 52:48.580]  We've got to move on.
[52:48.750 --> 52:49.620]  I'll reserve my opinion.
[52:49.720 --> 52:50.000]  All right.
[52:50.960 --> 52:52.320]  Well, you shouldn't reserve your opinion.
[52:52.500 --> 52:54.460]  Yeah, everyone has their opinion, but, uh...
[52:54.460 --> 52:55.340]  Something for everyone.
[52:55.540 --> 52:55.860]  Exactly.
[53:03.440 --> 53:04.080]  Oh, yeah.
[53:04.220 --> 53:08.900]  You had mentioned that, uh, already that BAI requires an ID to get in.
[53:09.200 --> 53:11.200]  The building requires an ID to get in, yes.
[53:11.340 --> 53:11.720]  That's right.
[53:11.900 --> 53:18.540]  Which, uh, don't necessarily agree with you that, uh, a private building can, uh, require these IDs.
[53:18.680 --> 53:20.270]  That's obviously a recent thing.
[53:20.270 --> 53:32.560]  I was down in Philly right after the, right after 9-11, within a few months, and I was in one of the public buildings, federal, the new, I think the newest, new Miss Attic Museum.
[53:32.940 --> 53:33.180]  Mm-hmm.
[53:34.000 --> 53:35.800]  They required a, a bag check.
[53:36.580 --> 53:37.620]  You're talking about the U.S.
[53:37.680 --> 53:37.860]  Mint?
[53:38.600 --> 53:38.960]  Yes.
[53:39.270 --> 53:39.540]  No, no.
[53:39.540 --> 53:39.880]  All right.
[53:39.920 --> 53:40.680]  I've been in that building.
[53:40.820 --> 53:42.360]  Yes, you have to have ID to go in there now.
[53:42.920 --> 53:43.980]  It wasn't even the Mint.
[53:44.120 --> 53:45.880]  It was the one that was near Jefferson Hospital.
[53:46.080 --> 53:48.300]  I think it's another affiliate with the Mint.
[53:48.300 --> 53:57.940]  But, yeah, you had the bag check and the, uh, and an ID, and I think all the federal buildings down there, every, all the public buildings, even the, uh, you know, Liberty Bill and all.
[53:58.440 --> 54:01.640]  Well, you know, buildings are one thing.
[54:01.960 --> 54:09.340]  I, uh, yeah, we can, we can debate whether or not they should be asking for ID to get into, uh, certain buildings, but, you know, public spaces, public parks, that's, that's where I draw the line.
[54:09.700 --> 54:18.060]  And, uh, you know, I just don't think we should be yielding that in any way or, or, you know, saying that this is the same as, as a private building asking for ID.
[54:18.460 --> 54:28.600]  A friend of mine actually today went to the New York City Public Library, and they wanted to search his bags going into the library, and he refused to let them do it.
[54:28.700 --> 54:31.300]  And then they wanted to search his bags because he was turning around and leaving.
[54:31.600 --> 54:35.520]  And he had to get very abrasive with them and said, you are not touching my bags, and he just walked away.
[54:35.660 --> 54:36.960]  But that's what you have to do sometimes.
[54:37.220 --> 54:37.520]  Yes, Leo?
[54:37.520 --> 54:45.960]  Also, I think public, like the music, like the men and stuff, they're buildings for public affairs.
[54:46.220 --> 54:49.580]  But like CityHorp, the public centers, it's for public gatherings.
[54:49.840 --> 54:50.560]  That's the difference.
[54:50.900 --> 54:59.380]  Also, the library thing, they check my bags every time I go into the main libraries in Manhattan and Brooklyn, but not in Staten Island.
[54:59.600 --> 55:01.800]  But they never really, they just open it, look inside.
[55:02.040 --> 55:06.720]  I once had some weird piece of electronics there that might have looked like something.
[55:07.120 --> 55:10.270]  And they just looked at it, nodded, closed the bag, and gave it back to me.
[55:10.320 --> 55:11.640]  It must be the most boring job in the world.
[55:12.290 --> 55:13.080]  All right, let's take another phone call.
[55:13.540 --> 55:14.480]  Good evening, you're on the air.
[55:15.290 --> 55:15.700]  All right.
[55:16.060 --> 55:20.820]  Pledge line, since people are having trouble calling this line, please call the pledge line, 212-209-2950.
[55:20.880 --> 55:25.880]  Pledge whatever you can afford to keep the radio station going and to keep us on the air as well.
[55:25.980 --> 55:27.440]  212-209-2950.
[55:27.790 --> 55:30.880]  $50 or more, you get an off-the-hook t-shirt, available only through here.
[55:31.270 --> 55:36.600]  And $75 off-the-hook t-shirt plus the Freedom Downtime autograph, DVD autographed by myself.
[55:36.720 --> 55:38.140]  And Kevin Mitnick.
[55:38.500 --> 55:40.160]  212-209-2950.
[55:40.300 --> 55:41.580]  Let's take another online phone call.
[55:42.080 --> 55:42.800]  Good evening, you're on the air.
[55:43.000 --> 55:43.750]  Yes, hello.
[55:44.020 --> 55:44.270]  How are you doing?
[55:44.560 --> 55:47.770]  I'm in sympathy with the fellow who called about Mamiya Abu-Jamal.
[55:48.360 --> 55:56.420]  He feels, he has such a low self-esteem, he doesn't believe that he can ever be as intelligent as Mamiya Abu-Jamal.
[55:56.620 --> 55:57.960]  That's why he's just jealous.
[55:58.520 --> 55:59.180]  Well, okay.
[55:59.790 --> 56:03.940]  I mean, yeah, we can analyze the people who call in and wonder why they feel the way they do.
[56:04.080 --> 56:08.020]  But the point is, you know, you're going to hear things on this radio station you don't agree with.
[56:08.200 --> 56:09.020]  You've got to deal with that.
[56:09.080 --> 56:09.840]  That's what life is.
[56:10.270 --> 56:16.380]  Yeah, but you see, the other radio station that he agrees with, they would never have that patient to talk with other people like that.
[56:16.520 --> 56:17.040]  No, they wouldn't.
[56:17.060 --> 56:17.940]  They'd cut him off immediately.
[56:18.420 --> 56:18.820]  That's right.
[56:18.820 --> 56:20.500]  Or they'd cut off his opposition immediately, yeah.
[56:20.600 --> 56:22.180]  And they certainly wouldn't have different views.
[56:22.710 --> 56:24.140]  He doesn't have any brain.
[56:24.270 --> 56:25.440]  It doesn't seem like he has any.
[56:25.600 --> 56:25.840]  All right.
[56:25.920 --> 56:31.520]  Well, I don't want to insult the listeners, but I understand how you feel the way you do, and thanks for expressing yourself.
[56:32.400 --> 56:33.640]  And let's take another phone call.
[56:33.840 --> 56:34.270]  Good evening.
[56:34.380 --> 56:34.790]  You're on the air.
[56:35.100 --> 56:37.940]  If you would like, you can psychoanalyze the previous caller now.
[56:38.160 --> 56:38.320]  Yeah.
[56:38.980 --> 56:39.700]  Hi, Emmanuel.
[56:39.900 --> 56:42.250]  First time I'm calling the station, your program, Emmanuel.
[56:42.250 --> 56:43.080]  Oh, welcome to the station.
[56:43.500 --> 56:45.580]  Well, I'm a long-term supporter.
[56:45.580 --> 56:52.250]  Yeah, I have an interesting take on this issue of a 150 decibel sound level.
[56:53.850 --> 57:04.660]  Yes, if 110 decibels is the level at which sound becomes painful, 150 decibels is 10,000 times louder.
[57:05.290 --> 57:05.480]  Yes.
[57:06.730 --> 57:08.520]  That's 40 decibels more.
[57:08.680 --> 57:11.080]  And this is enough to...
[57:11.080 --> 57:12.250]  There we go.
[57:12.540 --> 57:12.750]  Yeah.
[57:13.000 --> 57:14.120]  How many decibels was that?
[57:15.580 --> 57:16.160]  I don't know.
[57:16.520 --> 57:20.080]  That's our cue from the band, that our time is just about up.
[57:21.060 --> 57:23.360]  So, yes, you're saying it's very loud, basically.
[57:23.640 --> 57:28.800]  And it's enough to cause permanent damage and, I think, insanity.
[57:29.640 --> 57:35.460]  Well, you know, I think maybe they've been exposed to that themselves a little bit, but that's one to decide later on.
[57:35.750 --> 57:38.200]  We're out of time, and it's been a lot of fun.
[57:38.780 --> 57:53.700]  Of course, we look forward to being back here at our regular time in two weeks, but please stay tuned to the station because you're going to hear all kinds of really interesting bits of coverage over the next few days, especially during the demonstration on Sunday.
[57:54.440 --> 57:59.520]  No matter how that turns out, where it winds up going, it's going to be a lot of fun.
[58:00.080 --> 58:00.860]  And so will the meeting.
[58:01.360 --> 58:01.860]  Oh, yeah.
[58:01.920 --> 58:06.100]  The meeting takes place a week from this coming Friday, and we won't be on the air again before the meeting.
[58:06.100 --> 58:17.290]  So if you have any feedback, suggestions, things that we should do to fight this policy or bring more attention to it, write to us, OTH, at 26700.com, and we'd love to hear from you as far as that goes.
[58:18.020 --> 58:19.300]  But please show up, too.
[58:19.600 --> 58:20.860]  We're going to have something planned.
[58:20.980 --> 58:24.100]  Check our website, www.2600.com.
[58:24.680 --> 58:29.380]  We'll be announcing all kinds of things there, too, as far as what we're actually going to be doing.
[58:30.340 --> 58:31.770]  Stay tuned for the Personal Computer Show.
[58:31.880 --> 58:35.440]  They're coming on at 8.30, and they're running until 9.30 tonight.
[58:35.440 --> 58:37.320]  Yes, a special schedule tonight.
[58:37.840 --> 58:41.000]  And please call up, 212-209-2950.
[58:41.000 --> 58:42.380]  This is your last chance.
[58:42.680 --> 58:54.320]  If you call in the next two minutes, you'll get the Off the Hook t-shirt for a pledge of $50, the Freedom Downtime double DVD set, plus the Off the Hook t-shirt for a pledge of $75, autographed.
[58:55.400 --> 59:04.520]  And if you already have those things, there's all kinds of other things you can get by calling 212-209-2950.
[59:04.520 --> 59:12.200]  So, the most important thing that you'll get is a sense of satisfaction knowing that you've helped this radio station out and that you're a part of the family.
[59:14.220 --> 59:15.540]  All right, we'll see you again next week.
[59:15.640 --> 59:16.860]  Or, no, we'll see you in two weeks.
[59:17.290 --> 59:19.120]  You may see us on the news next week.
[59:19.790 --> 59:20.270]  We'll see.
[59:20.420 --> 59:20.660]  Good night.