[00:06.100 --> 00:07.760]  Okay, we just wanted to let it sink in.
[00:07.980 --> 00:09.500]  That was Free Speech Radio News.
[00:09.860 --> 00:13.320]  It's 7 o'clock time for Off the Hook.
[00:18.650 --> 00:23.120]  The telephone keeps ringing, so I ripped it off the wall.
[00:24.100 --> 00:28.560]  I cut myself while shaving, now I can't make a call.
[00:29.280 --> 00:33.920]  We couldn't get much worse, they would.
[00:34.180 --> 00:36.840]  From Diddly Bump, but the best is back from worst.
[00:37.500 --> 00:39.320]  I hope that's understood.
[00:39.540 --> 00:40.400]  From Diddly Bump!
[01:12.250 --> 01:13.430]  And good evening to everybody.
[01:13.570 --> 01:15.350]  The program is Off the Hook.
[01:15.530 --> 01:18.350]  Emmanuel Goldstein here with you for the next hour or so.
[01:18.350 --> 01:21.690]  And boy, we've got a whole lot of material to pack into an hour tonight.
[01:21.710 --> 01:25.390]  We have all kinds of special guests and things like that.
[01:26.290 --> 01:27.070]  Bill S.F.
[01:27.430 --> 01:29.290]  joins us from Amsterdam.
[01:29.450 --> 01:29.850]  Welcome.
[01:30.250 --> 01:30.470]  Hello.
[01:30.890 --> 01:32.650]  How's your trip to the United States been so far, Bill?
[01:33.390 --> 01:34.190]  Pretty wild.
[01:34.570 --> 01:35.070]  Pretty wild?
[01:35.170 --> 01:39.130]  I've never been asked to show my papers more than any other place anymore.
[01:39.370 --> 01:40.510]  Yeah, down on the street before.
[01:40.610 --> 01:42.210]  That's just out of hand, but no.
[01:43.190 --> 01:46.190]  Actually, it's getting to the stage where you have to show your papers everywhere these days.
[01:46.190 --> 01:46.510]  Everywhere, yeah.
[01:46.570 --> 01:47.510]  It's for your own security.
[01:48.350 --> 01:49.330]  We understand that here.
[01:49.810 --> 01:52.350]  You even have to show your papers to get into the building, but never mind.
[01:54.250 --> 01:55.330]  And Mark is here.
[01:55.410 --> 01:57.270]  Mark Hosler is here from Negative Land.
[01:57.490 --> 01:58.010]  How are you doing, Mark?
[01:58.170 --> 01:58.850]  Hey, hi.
[01:59.110 --> 02:00.270]  And what brings you to town?
[02:00.810 --> 02:06.150]  I was brought out here for this Creative Commons benefit that just happened the other night.
[02:06.270 --> 02:12.230]  They kind of debuted their sampling license, which is Negative Land helped to write it and worked for them to write it.
[02:12.230 --> 02:18.450]  And this is... I could talk about it more later, but this is a group trying to articulate some in-between areas for copyright.
[02:18.670 --> 02:23.050]  They give creators other options besides the usual black and white options that are out there.
[02:23.550 --> 02:23.890]  Neat.
[02:23.890 --> 02:25.210]  And, of course, we've played...
[02:25.210 --> 02:25.770]  They flew me in.
[02:26.030 --> 02:29.670]  We've played Negative Land so many times on this program, on this station.
[02:30.550 --> 02:31.970]  Well, I apologize to your listeners.
[02:32.930 --> 02:34.970]  Well, you guys have new material coming in?
[02:35.010 --> 02:35.290]  Yes.
[02:35.450 --> 02:39.750]  We do have a whole lot of stuff we've been working on for the last few years, and I brought a few things.
[02:39.830 --> 02:42.110]  So if there's time, maybe we can even play a few of those things.
[02:42.110 --> 02:45.210]  Yeah, in fact, I have something queued up right now that I'd like to get to.
[02:45.390 --> 02:45.610]  Okay.
[02:46.090 --> 02:55.930]  And, of course, for those of you also who might be a little confused, Mark was one of our speakers at H2K2, the Hacker Conference in New York City in the year 2000.
[02:56.290 --> 02:58.670]  And tell us something about what that was like for you.
[02:59.770 --> 03:05.650]  Well, it was fun because a lot of those hacker types all have well-paying jobs and a lot of disposable income.
[03:05.810 --> 03:07.290]  So I sold lots of merchandise.
[03:07.490 --> 03:07.690]  Good.
[03:07.790 --> 03:08.330]  That was good.
[03:08.330 --> 03:11.530]  No, but it was really fun and wonderful, and I got to talk about all the...
[03:11.530 --> 03:14.530]  You know, we've been involved in various hoaxes and pranks over the years.
[03:14.670 --> 03:19.450]  We've been sued for what we do, and somehow or other, miraculously, we're still around.
[03:19.730 --> 03:22.990]  Our 25th year of working together is coming up in 2005.
[03:23.710 --> 03:24.510]  25 years.
[03:24.570 --> 03:24.830]  Yeah.
[03:25.150 --> 03:26.810]  I sort of can't believe it.
[03:26.930 --> 03:28.490]  Well, I mean, you guys are such an unusual band.
[03:28.530 --> 03:31.770]  You have all kinds of different people who specialize in different things.
[03:32.150 --> 03:32.610]  Yeah, I don't think...
[03:32.610 --> 03:36.490]  Don Joyce with all his sounds, and you've got the weatherman, and you, and...
[03:36.910 --> 03:38.090]  Yeah, and we do radio.
[03:38.090 --> 03:43.230]  We do video, and we have this whole parallel universe that we've created, and records, and...
[03:43.590 --> 03:49.190]  Yeah, I don't really think we're a band at all, but we sort of pretend we are one, just so that we can show up in record stores.
[03:49.390 --> 03:50.610]  All right, well, let's play.
[03:51.010 --> 03:51.330]  That's...
[03:51.330 --> 03:52.310]  Yeah, that's what it's all about.
[03:52.550 --> 03:53.010]  Yes, yes.
[03:53.150 --> 03:56.110]  Anyway, oh, well, this thing you actually have queued up, that track is...
[03:56.670 --> 04:01.350]  Yeah, it's from the project we're working on called No Business, and this thing is 100% appropriated.
[04:01.350 --> 04:05.170]  A lot of our work is a mixture of original music and appropriated, but this is totally stolen.
[04:05.390 --> 04:06.590]  So now, is this illegal to play?
[04:06.590 --> 04:15.990]  No, well, nothing's happened yet, but this is all made from one piece of music, and I'm sure that anyone out there who is older than seven years old listening to this will recognize what this is.
[04:16.410 --> 04:19.710]  All right, so it's presented not in the manner in which it was intended.
[04:20.010 --> 04:22.770]  This is not in the manner in which it was originally released to the public.
[04:22.830 --> 04:27.430]  This is a manner in which Negative Land has played around with their little razor blades and messed it all up.
[04:27.450 --> 04:27.990]  And is there a title?
[04:27.990 --> 04:29.510]  This is called Favorite Things.
[04:29.830 --> 04:30.750]  All right, let's take a listen.
[04:30.930 --> 04:31.550]  We'll be right back.
[04:31.550 --> 04:34.770]  Raindrops on kittens, and schnitzel on roses.
[04:35.070 --> 04:39.490]  Nose cream on my nose, whiskers, and crisp eyelashes with noodles.
[04:40.010 --> 04:43.490]  Wild geese that fly with their wings, tied up with strings.
[04:43.490 --> 04:46.830]  These are a few of my favorite things.
[04:50.880 --> 04:55.100]  Ponies in dresses and warm, warm doorbells and brown raindrops.
[04:55.270 --> 04:58.020]  Girls with blue whiskers tied up with noodles.
[04:58.410 --> 05:01.220]  Wild kettles that fly with bright copper wings.
[05:01.550 --> 05:04.550]  These are a few of my favorite things.
[05:09.470 --> 05:12.910]  The dog bites, the bee stings.
[05:13.110 --> 05:16.410]  I simply remember my favorite things.
[05:16.650 --> 05:20.630]  And then I feel so bad.
[05:35.860 --> 05:40.380]  Lashes that sting on colored girls tied up with blue satin sashes.
[05:40.650 --> 05:43.560]  Wild brown girls tied up in warm springs.
[05:43.980 --> 05:46.920]  Wild wild white girls that melt into nose cream.
[05:46.920 --> 05:50.100]  These are a few of my favorite things.
[05:58.910 --> 06:01.970]  Nose cream on ponies, nose cream on kittens.
[06:02.390 --> 06:05.810]  Nose cream on roses, and nose cream on mittens.
[06:06.050 --> 06:10.370]  Bells and bells and bells and bells and bells and bells and bells and bells and bells and wild geese shit.
[06:11.290 --> 06:15.230]  When, when, when, when, when, when, when the bee stings.
[06:15.370 --> 06:18.490]  I simply remember my dog bites.
[06:30.610 --> 06:31.410]  Oh, boy.
[06:33.590 --> 06:35.510]  Well, you had us on the floor here in the studio.
[06:35.670 --> 06:36.370]  Yeah, you laughed.
[06:36.470 --> 06:36.930]  That's good.
[06:37.710 --> 06:39.410]  I laughed till I hurt myself.
[06:40.510 --> 06:42.630]  Bernie, did that translate well down there in Philadelphia?
[06:43.010 --> 06:43.550]  Oh, yes.
[06:43.710 --> 06:45.130]  Coming in loud and clear on shortwave.
[06:46.130 --> 06:47.970]  Oh, so that's favorite things.
[06:47.970 --> 06:48.590]  Yes.
[06:48.810 --> 06:49.990]  The new negative land piece.
[06:50.110 --> 07:04.410]  Well, the project we're doing is it's a 15,000-word essay that's the serious part of it is our kind of negative land's take on intellectual property issues and file sharing and downloading and appropriation and culture and all that blah-da-blah stuff that we're kind of known for.
[07:04.630 --> 07:13.370]  But we're looking at, well, what do we think of it now in 2005, you know, as opposed to the last thing written work we put out was our book Fair Use in 1995.
[07:14.230 --> 07:18.050]  And then we wanted to sort of have an audio example of this type of work.
[07:18.250 --> 07:30.250]  So, as I said earlier, unlike our other records, which are really a real mix of original stuff and appropriated stuff, the rule we had for this project was 100% appropriation, nothing original whatsoever, all stolen material.
[07:30.610 --> 07:32.550]  The whole record is going to be like this.
[07:32.550 --> 07:34.330]  Everything is all stolen stuff, yeah.
[07:34.470 --> 07:34.750]  Wow.
[07:35.070 --> 07:41.530]  And it's going to, yeah, and we're going to put a little Quick Dime movie on it and we're trying, we're hoping that we can get it out to people in kind of academia.
[07:41.830 --> 07:49.290]  There's a lot of folks now in the, you know, there's like this real growing world of progressive intellectual property professors and writers and lawyers.
[07:49.310 --> 07:51.090]  Tell us some of the people you were hanging out with the last couple of days.
[07:51.090 --> 07:53.350]  Well, this is, this is this thing with creative commons.
[07:53.490 --> 08:00.770]  It's kind of like, if negative land is, is the earth firsters of intellectual property, then we, we kind of need to have a Sierra Club.
[08:00.950 --> 08:04.770]  I personally don't want to be really in the Sierra Club because this is not fun enough for me.
[08:04.850 --> 08:09.250]  But I can see politically, you know, why the Sierra Club has value.
[08:09.350 --> 08:12.210]  And so for years I thought, you've got to have an intellectual property Sierra Club.
[08:12.210 --> 08:17.310]  And now you have, you know, people like Lawrence Lessig and Siva Vadanas and James Boyle down at Duke University.
[08:17.310 --> 08:19.770]  And there's all these incredible people out there.
[08:19.770 --> 08:21.810]  Siva was one of our keynotes in 2000 as well.
[08:21.970 --> 08:22.750]  And great guy.
[08:22.910 --> 08:38.670]  And some of them, their critique of it's not quite as, as radical as ours is, but they're doing great work and they're, you know, they have better agents and they get on CNN and they're talking about all this stuff that, that we were first, you know, making noise about back in 91 when we got sued.
[08:38.670 --> 08:41.250]  I felt like we were sort of the canary in the coal mine.
[08:41.410 --> 08:49.330]  And now here I am, you know, I'm being flown in by Wired Magazine for a benefit concert with, you know, Gilberto Gilles and David Byrne.
[08:49.430 --> 08:52.730]  And I'm some kind of, you know, VIP guy at this event.
[08:52.730 --> 08:54.030]  It's almost embarrassing.
[08:54.250 --> 08:55.450]  I don't even know how to handle it.
[08:55.690 --> 08:57.030]  Life in the fast lane, finally.
[08:57.310 --> 08:57.490]  That's right.
[08:57.690 --> 08:58.190]  You've arrived.
[08:58.530 --> 08:58.710]  Right.
[08:58.990 --> 09:03.670]  Now we're part of some weird new progressive intellectual property establishment.
[09:04.190 --> 09:04.770]  I don't know.
[09:04.830 --> 09:05.690]  I don't know what to make of it.
[09:05.690 --> 09:07.830]  But it's really neat.
[09:07.830 --> 09:23.390]  And we were invited by Decay of Commons to work on creating the sampling license, a license that would really apply to the type of work we do, which is that we're happy to let anyone sample from our work in any way, shape, or form they want and to use it to sell their own work.
[09:23.490 --> 09:24.610]  You know, I don't care if they make money of it.
[09:24.670 --> 09:27.730]  I don't care if I like, if I, you know, I don't have to like what they do with it.
[09:27.730 --> 09:34.610]  If they're, it's, as the Supreme Court phrase, a transformative reuse, you know, of a partial bit of work.
[09:35.290 --> 09:36.430]  You know, I think that's great.
[09:36.630 --> 09:37.110]  That's good.
[09:37.230 --> 09:38.690]  That's good for culture and healthy.
[09:38.870 --> 09:56.830]  And, and so Creative Commons is trying to kind of offer actual license agreements that people can use and attach to their work that actually legally articulate these gray areas, you know, of, yeah, I, it's my, it's, I cop, I have a copyright on it, but you can say distribute it as long as you don't make money off it,
[09:56.870 --> 10:01.730]  or you can, you can use this and that, but attribute it to us, or they have all kinds of variations on it.
[10:01.930 --> 10:02.950]  And what's, what's, what's yours?
[10:03.190 --> 10:09.090]  Ours is that you could sample from it, attribute where you got it from.
[10:09.590 --> 10:11.710]  You can sell it to make money.
[10:11.710 --> 10:15.070]  And the only exception is that advertisers can't use it.
[10:15.210 --> 10:15.450]  Okay.
[10:15.490 --> 10:17.390]  So we can use this and make money from it.
[10:17.710 --> 10:18.410]  Chunks of it.
[10:18.530 --> 10:19.350]  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[10:19.810 --> 10:25.090]  But honestly, I actually don't, I actually don't agree with all the options that Creative Commons actually offers.
[10:25.570 --> 10:31.110]  I think some of them don't fit in my, you know, negative lens idea of how we think these things will operate.
[10:31.250 --> 10:31.770]  That's okay.
[10:31.910 --> 10:36.710]  Now, musicians interested in, in, in being a part of this, do you have any way they can contact these people?
[10:36.910 --> 10:38.310]  Well, it's creativecommons.org.
[10:38.470 --> 10:43.650]  You just go there and there's all that, it's very easily navigable to figure out what kind of license you would want.
[10:44.210 --> 10:51.630]  Wired Magazine's putting out a whole CD in their next issue that is all artists that are, attaching Creative Commons license to their work.
[10:51.770 --> 10:54.310]  And it turns out most of them are using the sampling license that we wrote.
[10:54.470 --> 10:56.190]  So I was really tickled by, by that.
[10:56.650 --> 11:05.510]  So there's a, the, the idea is that they want this thing to become kind of a normal, typical, just a normal thing people know is out there as an option to use.
[11:05.510 --> 11:16.230]  You know, this, this, this goes from being some weird, strange, you know, radical, fringy thing to just becoming something that's just regular, you know, hey, you can copyright using the Creative Commons.
[11:16.410 --> 11:17.770]  It seems like it's moving in that direction.
[11:17.890 --> 11:21.970]  It seems like it has to move in that direction because it certainly can't go the way the RAA wants it to go.
[11:22.210 --> 11:22.410]  No.
[11:23.270 --> 11:24.170]  It's just not realistic.
[11:24.170 --> 11:34.170]  It's kind of like, what I like about it is, is it's sort of ignoring the direction that corporate influence is having on intellectual property laws and just saying, look, we're just going to create our own kind of parallel universe over here.
[11:34.290 --> 11:37.590]  We're just going to ignore what you're doing and make our own sandbox to play in.
[11:37.910 --> 11:39.270]  And that's, that I like.
[11:39.390 --> 11:41.710]  That's, that is very much an approach we've always taken to.
[11:41.830 --> 11:44.750]  It's like, I don't even want to worry about breaking the rules.
[11:44.850 --> 11:45.730]  I just want to ignore them.
[11:46.090 --> 11:47.270]  Live like they don't exist.
[11:47.270 --> 11:49.730]  So, wow, a true compatriot here.
[11:50.690 --> 11:55.170]  It's amazing, too, how, how, how many times our little communities intertwine.
[11:55.390 --> 11:59.610]  Bernie, of course, you hung out with Mark when he was down in Philadelphia for the Illegal Art Show, right?
[11:59.810 --> 12:00.770]  That was a lot of fun.
[12:00.850 --> 12:02.250]  And Mark, I've got a, hi, how you doing, Mark?
[12:02.510 --> 12:02.870]  Hello.
[12:03.930 --> 12:05.190]  I've got a question for you.
[12:05.310 --> 12:06.490]  This is a benefit concert.
[12:06.670 --> 12:08.830]  How do you actually perform this stuff live?
[12:09.250 --> 12:10.990]  Well, in this case, we weren't performing.
[12:11.310 --> 12:13.510]  I mean, I was just sitting on my butt watching everything.
[12:13.830 --> 12:14.250]  Oh, okay.
[12:14.250 --> 12:21.510]  But we, yeah, we do perform this stuff live and actually don't use any samplers or computers at all.
[12:21.590 --> 12:22.470]  It's pretty old school.
[12:22.790 --> 12:39.550]  We're using, you know, keyboards and turntables and CD players and a lot of the cut-up, sort of, quote-unquote, sampled material is coming off of old radio station cart machines, which are now become a dead technology.
[12:39.790 --> 12:41.410]  That's what Don Joyce loves to play with.
[12:41.410 --> 12:43.470]  Yeah, so Don is a member of our group.
[12:43.850 --> 12:47.130]  We'll have four cart machines on stage and stacks of about 100 carts.
[12:47.130 --> 12:48.710]  And they look like 8-track tapes.
[12:48.910 --> 12:51.050]  They are now really a true dead technology.
[12:51.590 --> 12:52.570]  Hey, we got them right here.
[12:52.790 --> 12:53.010]  Oh, my God.
[12:53.170 --> 12:54.010]  He's not totally dead.
[12:54.030 --> 12:55.030]  That's what we use every day.
[12:55.430 --> 13:00.070]  Well, they're almost, except for a WBAI, who's always been a little behind the curve.
[13:00.210 --> 13:00.890]  And KPFA.
[13:01.130 --> 13:01.310]  Yeah.
[13:01.510 --> 13:02.690]  That's where you guys do a radio show.
[13:02.690 --> 13:02.870]  Yes.
[13:03.030 --> 13:04.870]  Well, so we bought our own now.
[13:04.990 --> 13:10.810]  And they allow you to turn these little tape bits on and off, and we can do live cut-up collage stuff pretty easily.
[13:10.870 --> 13:16.210]  In fact, years before I met you, I actually went to your radio show, Over the Edge, and hung out with Don for a little while.
[13:16.710 --> 13:18.970]  In fact, somehow I wound up being the cameraman for the show.
[13:18.970 --> 13:21.990]  I went down to the street and was filming as they were doing things.
[13:22.070 --> 13:22.830]  It was kind of fun.
[13:22.830 --> 13:28.350]  What's funny is that when we play live now, people who are anyone under the age of 30 doesn't even know what we're doing.
[13:28.430 --> 13:32.310]  Because all they can relate to is, well, isn't there a laptop somewhere, or what?
[13:32.830 --> 13:34.130]  You know, how are you doing that?
[13:34.330 --> 13:35.490]  You know, they don't understand it.
[13:35.610 --> 13:38.090]  So it seems even more mysterious, which I like.
[13:38.210 --> 13:39.470]  Now, your program is called Over the Edge.
[13:39.570 --> 13:41.890]  The radio show that we do every week is Over the Edge, yes.
[13:41.890 --> 13:42.450]  It's every week now?
[13:42.530 --> 13:43.210]  I thought it was every...
[13:43.210 --> 13:45.330]  It's every week, except the first Thursdays of every month.
[13:45.390 --> 13:46.210]  It's Thursdays at midnight.
[13:46.390 --> 13:55.410]  But here, of course, if you were listening to it live, if you went to the, like, KPFA.org's website or Negative Lands' website, you'd have to listen at 3 a.m., unfortunately.
[13:55.610 --> 13:59.190]  But we archive the show every week, so you can listen to the previous week's show.
[13:59.290 --> 14:02.870]  And, yeah, we've done a live cut-up collage radio show since 1981.
[14:02.990 --> 14:05.050]  Can you download the shows and save them for yourself?
[14:05.790 --> 14:06.910]  We have no...
[14:06.910 --> 14:09.290]  You know, this would be a good place to actually ask for help.
[14:09.310 --> 14:10.270]  We need help.
[14:10.390 --> 14:19.450]  We don't have enough help in the digital realm of doing all the ideas we'd like to do with that show and making the work available, because we'd like to just have, yeah, all these MP3s of everything up there.
[14:19.550 --> 14:21.650]  We have a magician named Junts who works with us.
[14:21.650 --> 14:22.350]  We need magicians.
[14:22.350 --> 14:23.810]  Who can make things like that happen.
[14:23.970 --> 14:25.010]  We'll talk after the show.
[14:25.470 --> 14:25.690]  That's great.
[14:25.690 --> 14:31.130]  Now, Bill, you met Mark in the past as well, down in Berkeley, which is where you used to live.
[14:31.250 --> 14:32.010]  Yeah, I lived...
[14:32.010 --> 14:32.910]  I'm sorry, your mic's not on.
[14:32.990 --> 14:33.170]  Go ahead.
[14:33.490 --> 14:36.330]  Yes, I lived in Berkeley for a short period of time.
[14:37.410 --> 14:43.530]  This may sound weird, but I think Mark and I actually were in the same place for about two weeks at least.
[14:43.910 --> 14:45.210]  You mean living in the same house?
[14:45.290 --> 14:45.990]  Yes, yes.
[14:46.210 --> 14:46.470]  What?
[14:46.470 --> 14:47.250]  On the side of Berkeley.
[14:47.370 --> 14:47.770]  I think so.
[14:47.890 --> 14:48.930]  Mark looks very surprised.
[14:49.150 --> 14:49.390]  Yeah, I know.
[14:49.390 --> 14:50.250]  He looks very surprised.
[14:50.250 --> 14:57.710]  I am very surprised, and I've never had any real substance abuse problems or anything that would cloud my memory that much, but I don't remember it at all.
[14:58.650 --> 14:59.310]  Oh, well.
[14:59.950 --> 15:01.630]  Well, we can always check the records with the government.
[15:01.630 --> 15:02.030]  I believe you.
[15:02.210 --> 15:02.790]  Check the records, Joe.
[15:02.790 --> 15:03.310]  Where?
[15:03.570 --> 15:04.550]  Well, we'll talk later.
[15:04.690 --> 15:05.330]  Yeah, let's not give out the addresses here.
[15:05.330 --> 15:07.090]  This is not an on-the-air kind of thing.
[15:07.230 --> 15:07.610]  It's probably not that.
[15:07.610 --> 15:07.990]  That's true.
[15:08.090 --> 15:09.290]  But Bill, tell us what's happening with you.
[15:09.390 --> 15:10.230]  You're over in Amsterdam.
[15:10.750 --> 15:12.210]  Yes, what's going on in Amsterdam?
[15:12.430 --> 15:14.170]  Yeah, how are things over there in Holland?
[15:14.330 --> 15:16.670]  Is it becoming really conservative like we hear?
[15:18.230 --> 15:23.010]  That's what people want to hear here, and that's what you are told on the news, but...
[15:23.010 --> 15:23.710]  Tell us the truth.
[15:26.870 --> 15:29.670]  Really, it's getting a little bit more conservative.
[15:29.670 --> 15:35.150]  It's getting conservative in a way that most people can appreciate.
[15:36.330 --> 15:39.350]  It's basically a lot of nonsense that's being cleared out.
[15:39.510 --> 15:43.650]  I mean, but I would not say it's getting fascist or anything.
[15:44.290 --> 15:45.710]  It's quite livable.
[15:46.770 --> 15:49.330]  You're not asked for your papers every building you go in.
[15:51.450 --> 15:58.170]  What about the encroaching EU and rules and regulations and changes that will come to the unique Dutch culture?
[15:58.650 --> 15:59.570]  Is that something you need to be worried about?
[15:59.570 --> 16:01.070]  I don't think that's infringing at all.
[16:02.330 --> 16:06.110]  In fact, we're all being told that it should have no effect at all.
[16:06.290 --> 16:10.430]  It's only a monetary union, or at least for the time being.
[16:11.250 --> 16:11.450]  Okay.
[16:11.570 --> 16:14.250]  Well, that sounds a lot more optimistic than some of the things I've been hearing.
[16:14.850 --> 16:17.630]  Well, this is a very anti-Europe place.
[16:18.350 --> 16:19.370]  Well, that's true.
[16:20.390 --> 16:29.050]  I have been hearing it from Dutch people as well, though, about how things are becoming more conservative and anti-immigration and all kinds of things like that.
[16:29.070 --> 16:37.110]  Yeah, but when you say anti-immigration, you're talking about people that you would probably want to steer away from if you met them on the street, even here.
[16:37.690 --> 16:38.930]  I mean, those kind of people.
[16:39.110 --> 16:41.070]  I mean, that's what you don't want in your country.
[16:41.630 --> 16:45.310]  Well, yeah, but do they wear that on their forehead when they come into your country?
[16:45.310 --> 16:58.510]  It seems like, from what I've been hearing, basically, there's a movement in Holland to close off the open immigration policy, fairly open immigration policy, certainly compared to this country, and make it a lot more restrictive.
[16:58.790 --> 17:01.010]  I'm not sure if that's the same thing you're talking about.
[17:03.150 --> 17:03.590]  Somewhat.
[17:03.730 --> 17:09.730]  I mean, if you have something to offer to Holland, you're definitely going to be legalized and allowed in.
[17:10.210 --> 17:13.230]  The thing is, there are still major differences between there and here.
[17:13.330 --> 17:14.810]  That's pretty much all I need to hear.
[17:14.810 --> 17:15.670]  Okay, good, good.
[17:16.030 --> 17:19.050]  Then I have reason to go there for extended periods of time.
[17:19.450 --> 17:20.310]  I hope you do.
[17:20.750 --> 17:22.010]  Have you been there, Mark?
[17:22.550 --> 17:23.770]  Yes, I have visited there.
[17:23.870 --> 17:24.930]  And it's probably true.
[17:24.930 --> 17:27.690]  Everyone in this room has thought of or has friends who've...
[17:27.690 --> 17:38.910]  I mean, how many times have all the people out there who are listening to this show had a conversation since 9-11 about, you know, my God, if that guy gets re-elected, I don't know.
[17:39.070 --> 17:40.910]  Maybe I really just have to leave the country.
[17:40.910 --> 17:53.470]  I mean, it's just, is the juggernaut so huge and so big and rolling so hard and so fast, you know, that life is going to be pretty frightening for a good number of years.
[17:53.470 --> 17:55.430]  And I have it all planned out, too.
[17:55.970 --> 18:04.410]  In fact, all I have to do is speak a single word into a phone and this whole operation goes into play where I'm given a place to, a new identity, everything.
[18:04.730 --> 18:09.630]  You know, it's all... I probably shouldn't be talking about it on the radio, but, you know, you've got to think of your future.
[18:10.190 --> 18:10.990]  You've got to think of...
[18:10.990 --> 18:12.410]  Emanuel Goldstein 2.
[18:13.350 --> 18:14.110]  Well, yeah.
[18:14.310 --> 18:16.130]  Not quite that obvious, but something like that.
[18:17.530 --> 18:24.710]  And also, we were talking in the last couple of weeks, obviously, about all the things that happened at the RNC and all the negative stuff that took place.
[18:24.710 --> 18:26.210]  And I was talking to Mark before the show.
[18:26.270 --> 18:31.810]  It turns out that you know people that were arrested the same time I was arrested, which makes the world even smaller.
[18:32.350 --> 18:33.910]  What kind of stories have they told you?
[18:33.910 --> 18:45.350]  Well, actually, just because we were talking about this, and I wanted to make sure I had the facts straight, because there's always that, you know, I heard from such and such, I actually just called my friend up on the phone just to double check with her to make sure I had it all right.
[18:45.510 --> 18:49.530]  And, yeah, she was swept up in the arrest the same day that you were, on the 31st.
[18:50.550 --> 18:57.130]  And she has a disability, and so they actually moved her from... at a certain point, they removed her from the main population.
[18:57.170 --> 19:01.410]  I guess she mostly had all the men and women mixed together for a while, then the sexes were separated.
[19:01.410 --> 19:11.850]  She was separated out from that, and she's actually an amputee, and they actually wanted to remove her leg, because maybe they thought there was, you know, weapons inside there or something.
[19:12.430 --> 19:12.870]  Unbelievable.
[19:13.090 --> 19:25.530]  So she raised holy hell about that, and they finally backed off, but they put her in this other room and wouldn't tell her what was going on, and so she, you know, screamed and yelled and made a lot of noise.
[19:25.530 --> 19:31.410]  Anyways, and finally after, I don't know if it was after 12 hours, 24 hours, she was in there for 48 hours.
[19:31.930 --> 19:33.530]  At the pier or in the system for 48 hours?
[19:33.530 --> 19:35.550]  Yeah, you know, in the pier.
[19:35.730 --> 19:36.710]  She was in the pier for that long.
[19:36.730 --> 19:38.810]  There was some other part of... there was some other building...
[19:38.810 --> 19:39.170]  The tombs.
[19:39.650 --> 19:39.810]  Yes.
[19:40.010 --> 19:40.210]  Okay.
[19:40.330 --> 19:40.430]  There you go.
[19:40.570 --> 19:40.710]  Thank you.
[19:42.570 --> 19:46.250]  And finally, an officer actually came up to her and said, look, calm down.
[19:46.930 --> 19:47.930]  Here's what's going on.
[19:48.210 --> 19:49.270]  Everyone's lying to you.
[19:49.270 --> 19:52.590]  I mean, and then he actually used those words.
[19:52.730 --> 19:55.790]  He actually said, you are being lied to by everyone in this space.
[19:55.870 --> 19:58.350]  You're being moved from room to room, told this and that.
[19:58.490 --> 19:59.730]  A cop saying this to him.
[19:59.730 --> 20:05.450]  This is a cop saying, the truth is, you're all just being held until Bush is out of town, and that's just the way it is.
[20:05.530 --> 20:11.210]  So you might as well just save your breath, you know, just relax, and when he's, you know, when he's gone, you'll get out.
[20:11.750 --> 20:14.710]  Amazing, because that's what everybody was figuring while we were in there.
[20:14.810 --> 20:15.270]  Sure, well, of course.
[20:15.370 --> 20:17.650]  To have a policeman actually say that's what we're doing.
[20:17.650 --> 20:20.510]  And, you know, I was transferred 12 different times.
[20:20.790 --> 20:32.190]  Well, he worked there, and the impression I got was that the guys who were out on the street probably could have tended to have more of an aggro kind of attitude than the guys who are men and women who actually just work kind of the more desk jobs of processing people.
[20:32.430 --> 20:44.170]  And it's interesting because they must have made an actual tactical, logistical, monetary decision to spend your tax dollars on paying for the legal fees that is going to happen when, because there's going to be a ton of lawsuits, obviously.
[20:44.390 --> 20:45.070]  And they knew that.
[20:45.350 --> 20:46.210]  They had to have known that.
[20:46.210 --> 21:02.450]  What Philadelphia did, it's pretty interesting, is the city of Philadelphia actually took out a large insurance policy to pay for any lawsuits that they would have to endure for violating people's constitutional rights.
[21:02.450 --> 21:09.210]  So, real bizarre, you can actually take out, you can actually take out an insurance policy for this.
[21:09.210 --> 21:10.190]  They'll insure anything.
[21:11.430 --> 21:11.950]  Wow.
[21:12.170 --> 21:18.170]  Who would insure the city of New York, which has a history of violating everyone's rights at everyone's demonstration?
[21:18.850 --> 21:21.230]  Have to be an awfully dumb insurer.
[21:21.510 --> 21:28.070]  Well, actually, the city of New York tends to self-insure itself for almost everything, simply because it's so much larger than most other cities.
[21:28.070 --> 21:31.130]  So, there, the city of New York did it for itself.
[21:31.190 --> 21:36.930]  The point is, if you're going to take out an... it shows a premeditated mode that you're in.
[21:37.050 --> 21:42.570]  If you're going to take out an insurance policy for this, it's almost like admitting that you're going to violate people's constitutional rights.
[21:42.710 --> 21:46.050]  So, we're trying to keep our costs down by taking out an insurance policy.
[21:46.050 --> 21:48.890]  And that's another advantage of self-insuring.
[21:49.190 --> 21:57.930]  You can't... don't have the smoking gun where someone can say, look, they took out insurance because they knew they were going to do wrong and be sued.
[21:58.270 --> 22:01.410]  The city of New York, by self-insuring, doesn't have that smoking gun.
[22:01.550 --> 22:02.230]  But are you saying...
[22:02.230 --> 22:03.150]  The taxpayers pay instead.
[22:03.550 --> 22:03.750]  Yeah.
[22:03.750 --> 22:09.510]  Are you saying, though, you know that the city... does anyone here saying, or do they know the city of New York actually did do this, or are you just conjecturing right now?
[22:09.570 --> 22:14.170]  We're conjecturing on what they actually did, but historically, they have self-insured for almost everything.
[22:14.450 --> 22:14.590]  Right.
[22:15.070 --> 22:20.050]  Well, I'm sure a lot of this is going to be coming out in the many hearings that will be taking place in the future.
[22:20.550 --> 22:29.210]  There was a hearing last Wednesday, New York City Council, where they were very upset that the mayor or nobody from the city actually showed up to answer questions.
[22:30.190 --> 22:35.070]  And going on right now, every day, there are hearings from people that have desk appearance tickets.
[22:35.250 --> 22:36.350]  Mine is on October 1st.
[22:36.390 --> 22:37.870]  There are people who are already being called in.
[22:38.190 --> 22:41.810]  And what happens there is you're given the opportunity to enter a plea.
[22:43.270 --> 22:53.610]  And I'm not sure if you're given an ACD there, if you want one, a German contemplation of dismissal, which basically means if you stay out of trouble for six months, it'll be wiped.
[22:53.850 --> 23:00.970]  It's not an admission of guilt, but it also is kind of not as good as pleading not guilty and being found not guilty.
[23:00.970 --> 23:02.150]  It's not as good as that.
[23:04.770 --> 23:06.350]  So that's happening every day.
[23:06.710 --> 23:14.470]  If you want to show support, 100 Center Street every morning, 930, I'm sure somebody will be heard there.
[23:16.150 --> 23:19.390]  And then there'll be trials after all this is over.
[23:19.450 --> 23:22.150]  When people plead not guilty, you have to have a trial.
[23:22.950 --> 23:24.330]  And that's going to be very interesting.
[23:24.530 --> 23:27.730]  And then, of course, there'll be all kinds of civil suits after that as well.
[23:28.310 --> 23:32.390]  So we're looking at a long, long road of legal challenges of all sorts.
[23:32.710 --> 23:36.510]  And you have to wonder, you know, just whose idea was it to do it this way?
[23:36.570 --> 23:39.710]  Because this is a catastrophe for the city, it really is.
[23:40.230 --> 23:41.690]  I don't think they think it is.
[23:41.970 --> 23:43.170]  Yeah, they probably don't.
[23:43.230 --> 23:46.610]  And since the taxpayers wind up paying for it in the end, it's really not...
[23:46.610 --> 23:52.550]  But what's so interesting is thinking that really someone had to make that decision.
[23:52.550 --> 24:03.070]  You know, yes, we really are going to hold people that are just being charged with disorderly conduct for 24 to 48 hours, even after we said we were preparing for up to 1,000 arrests a day.
[24:03.150 --> 24:03.490]  That's right.
[24:03.570 --> 24:03.690]  That's odd.
[24:03.690 --> 24:05.030]  And so these decisions...
[24:05.030 --> 24:06.550]  And it's just very interesting that they made...
[24:07.230 --> 24:12.630]  Somebody made these decisions consciously beforehand as a way to deal with what was going on on the street.
[24:12.690 --> 24:14.870]  And there are people there, like that policeman, who know this.
[24:14.870 --> 24:19.750]  And, you know, we depend on people to get the information to us one way or another.
[24:21.230 --> 24:31.450]  So if people are out there who know more than they've said so far, and there's many ways that could be interpreted, there are people who are filming things, there are people in apartment buildings that were filming the streets below.
[24:32.350 --> 24:34.190]  Please get that information out.
[24:34.370 --> 24:40.050]  Get it either to us, get it to the National Lawyers Guild, get it to the People's Law Collective, the NYCLU.
[24:40.050 --> 24:49.550]  There's a number of organizations that would be more than happy to protect confidentiality and use this material to help those people who were victimized throughout the RNC.
[24:49.750 --> 24:53.770]  Yeah, I think my friend was able to scrawl down the name of the officer on a little piece of paper.
[24:53.770 --> 24:56.250]  So, you know, in case it gets to that point...
[24:56.250 --> 24:56.710]  Yeah, I mean, it's a shame.
[24:56.710 --> 24:58.810]  He's honest, and he'll get penalized for being honest.
[24:58.810 --> 24:58.830]  I know.
[24:58.830 --> 25:00.590]  That's the one part of it I felt bad about.
[25:00.730 --> 25:02.370]  Yeah, but, you know...
[25:02.370 --> 25:07.090]  You're making an assumption that he was being honest and not making up yet another lie.
[25:07.710 --> 25:10.030]  Yeah, but, you know, this one...
[25:10.710 --> 25:11.790]  It's easy to believe.
[25:11.950 --> 25:14.070]  You want to believe it, but it doesn't make it true.
[25:14.230 --> 25:19.970]  In contrast to almost everything else I was told by the cops during that three-day period, this seems to make sense.
[25:20.290 --> 25:22.210]  You know, this is backed up by the facts.
[25:22.390 --> 25:27.630]  We were being moved around musical chair style and for no apparent reason other than to keep us off the streets.
[25:27.750 --> 25:29.030]  There's also a dictum in law.
[25:29.030 --> 25:30.490]  I don't know exactly why it's called.
[25:30.490 --> 25:38.730]  But if you make a statement that is against your or your employer's interests, it's generally considered to be truthful.
[25:38.990 --> 25:46.570]  And this police officer or corrections officer obviously made a statement against his interests, against the interests of the city of New York.
[25:47.230 --> 25:54.170]  Therefore, in any sort of suit, if he testifies and they establish that he actually said that, it's to be considered truthful.
[25:54.430 --> 25:54.710]  Right.
[25:54.710 --> 25:56.990]  I don't expect him to ever testify.
[25:56.990 --> 26:04.370]  But what I would expect, what I would hope for, if there are any documents, memos, anything like that, that they would get out somehow.
[26:06.250 --> 26:10.590]  And, of course, you can email us, OTH at 2600.com, with any kind of information.
[26:11.150 --> 26:12.170]  Not the fake memo.
[26:12.450 --> 26:12.630]  Right.
[26:12.710 --> 26:13.550]  It's not a fake memo.
[26:13.570 --> 26:17.610]  Yes, get us the original sooner or later and we'll have our document experts look at the original.
[26:17.950 --> 26:19.930]  Yeah, we'll do a better job than CBS checking out memos.
[26:20.130 --> 26:21.250]  There was a fake memo.
[26:21.430 --> 26:22.310]  I'm not making this up.
[26:22.430 --> 26:23.290]  I know about the fake memo.
[26:23.410 --> 26:23.550]  Yeah.
[26:23.650 --> 26:24.890]  The whole world knows about the fake memo.
[26:25.210 --> 26:26.770]  All because of the typeface, you know.
[26:26.830 --> 26:27.970]  You've got to cover those little things.
[26:28.530 --> 26:33.610]  Or you can mail us paper mail at off the hook, care of WBAI, 120 Wall Street, New York, New York.
[26:34.370 --> 26:36.490]  0-0-0-5 is our zip code.
[26:37.290 --> 26:41.950]  Let's read a couple of pieces of email that people have sent us to the OTH at 2600 address.
[26:42.310 --> 26:47.010]  As a long-time listener to WBAI from Melbourne, Australia, I couldn't believe what you guys just went through.
[26:47.210 --> 26:51.030]  I'd like to say that we aren't having similar problems in Australia, but we are.
[26:51.170 --> 26:56.790]  We have a prime minister here who is hell-bent on getting some of us killed for no noble reasons, but political reasons.
[26:57.270 --> 27:01.710]  New York City Nazis or a government should hang their collective heads in shame.
[27:01.710 --> 27:07.370]  I kind of shy away from using the N-word on them, or anybody, really.
[27:07.430 --> 27:08.590]  I think it takes away from the argument.
[27:08.790 --> 27:12.050]  And it's, like I said on the other radio show, it's not the same thing.
[27:12.190 --> 27:14.410]  It might be the same idea, but it's not the same thing.
[27:14.410 --> 27:15.990]  And it's important to make that distinction.
[27:17.070 --> 27:21.630]  I hope you can take this to court, win some compensation from those jackbooted thugs.
[27:21.970 --> 27:25.750]  But even in the best case, what New York has lost and will never get back is its pride.
[27:27.890 --> 27:31.590]  And you should go to the mayor's website or the NYPD site and let them know.
[27:31.690 --> 27:37.030]  I don't know how you can let them know by going to their site, but you can let them know, certainly by writing letters and telling other people.
[27:37.530 --> 27:45.190]  If enough people from around the world let them know by shining a light on them, perhaps we can shame them into changing and behaving like regular people, not right-wing Taliban.
[27:45.690 --> 27:46.530]  Keep up the good work.
[27:46.610 --> 27:47.330]  Malcolm from Australia.
[27:48.570 --> 27:50.690]  You know, you can't contact the mayor's office.
[27:51.630 --> 27:51.990]  Really?
[27:52.210 --> 27:52.650]  Yes, you can.
[27:52.750 --> 27:55.890]  You can call 311 and they'll, like, pretend to take your complaint.
[27:56.110 --> 28:00.070]  But they will tell you that the mayor's office doesn't have phones that you can call.
[28:00.250 --> 28:00.810]  Which is a lie.
[28:01.130 --> 28:01.530]  Well, wait a moment.
[28:01.570 --> 28:01.930]  Hang on a second.
[28:02.170 --> 28:03.350]  We're going to settle this right now.
[28:03.430 --> 28:03.830]  Bernie, don't...
[28:03.830 --> 28:05.790]  You can go to their website and email the mayor.
[28:05.890 --> 28:06.690]  I've gotten letters back.
[28:06.790 --> 28:07.430]  Oh, well then.
[28:07.510 --> 28:08.610]  You'll be in with all the other spam.
[28:08.610 --> 28:10.690]  And Bernie, don't be alarmed by the dial tone you're about to hear.
[28:10.790 --> 28:12.790]  We're going to make a little phone call here.
[28:13.090 --> 28:13.590]  The mayor?
[28:15.590 --> 28:16.550]  212 New York.
[28:16.950 --> 28:17.130]  Yeah.
[28:18.030 --> 28:21.070]  The mayor does have a phone number, but 311 won't tell you it.
[28:21.390 --> 28:25.630]  Yeah, and for some reason 311 is blocked from our phones here, so we'll have to call 212 New York.
[28:26.490 --> 28:29.210]  And hopefully we'll get a person who can answer this question.
[28:29.830 --> 28:35.190]  If you have an old New York City phone book, look up Michael Bloomberg on, I think, 79th Street.
[28:36.210 --> 28:37.470]  His phone number was listed.
[28:37.470 --> 28:38.650]  Listen, I don't believe he's changed it.
[28:38.710 --> 28:39.990]  He's been getting a lot of crank calls.
[28:40.190 --> 28:41.270]  Send us his number, please.
[28:41.730 --> 28:43.470]  Uh, it didn't ring, did it?
[28:43.590 --> 28:43.830]  No.
[28:44.730 --> 28:46.110]  You know, that's our phone system's fault.
[28:46.270 --> 28:46.810]  Yet again.
[28:47.010 --> 28:48.310]  Hang on, Bernie, I gotta...
[28:48.310 --> 28:48.930]  I'm really disappointed in you.
[28:48.990 --> 28:49.890]  I gotta put you on hold.
[28:49.990 --> 28:50.850]  Well, it's not my fault.
[28:50.870 --> 28:52.190]  The phones aren't working on your show.
[28:52.190 --> 28:53.630]  No, my voice resonates at the...
[28:53.630 --> 28:57.130]  at the multiple of 2600 that happens to screw phones up.
[28:57.210 --> 28:59.210]  I'm gonna dial without Bernie on the line.
[28:59.250 --> 29:01.350]  Maybe that'll make it easier for our phone system to interpret.
[29:07.820 --> 29:09.800]  Okay, and then we're gonna bring Bernie in.
[29:10.000 --> 29:10.420]  Actually, you know what?
[29:10.440 --> 29:11.200]  We're gonna leave Bernie out.
[29:11.360 --> 29:12.060]  It might confuse...
[29:12.060 --> 29:12.940]  Sorry about that, Bernie.
[29:13.140 --> 29:14.040]  But we're gonna bring him back.
[29:14.240 --> 29:16.140]  Thank you for calling the City of New York.
[29:16.300 --> 29:16.420]  Hi.
[29:16.420 --> 29:19.660]  If this is an emergency, please hang up and call 911.
[29:21.240 --> 29:23.020]  Please hang up and run out into the street screening.
[29:23.020 --> 29:25.880]  Parking regulations are in effect today and tomorrow.
[29:26.180 --> 29:26.340]  Oh.
[29:26.520 --> 29:28.840]  Your call may be recorded for quality...
[29:28.840 --> 29:30.400]  So we want the number for the mayor's office, right?
[29:30.500 --> 29:32.160]  ...for the next available representative.
[29:34.140 --> 29:36.420]  And this doesn't take as long as you might think it would.
[29:37.280 --> 29:38.860]  Well, let's just relax a moment.
[29:38.940 --> 29:39.900]  At least it hasn't before.
[29:40.360 --> 29:42.920]  We have some nice music to calm our nerves.
[29:43.840 --> 29:44.800]  Take a deep breath.
[29:45.940 --> 29:47.600]  I don't know, it's getting me kind of aggravated.
[29:49.500 --> 29:50.680]  I guess that's just...
[29:50.680 --> 29:51.120]  Oh.
[29:53.020 --> 29:54.160]  This is LaShawn speaking.
[29:54.300 --> 29:54.960]  How may I help you?
[29:55.180 --> 29:55.620]  Yes.
[29:55.680 --> 29:56.120]  Hi.
[29:56.120 --> 29:59.120]  I'm trying to find out the telephone number for the mayor's office.
[30:00.700 --> 30:01.460]  One moment.
[30:01.800 --> 30:02.160]  Thank you.
[30:06.640 --> 30:07.080]  Okay.
[30:07.100 --> 30:08.860]  The telephone number to the mayor's office?
[30:08.980 --> 30:09.300]  That's right.
[30:09.440 --> 30:09.780]  Okay.
[30:09.860 --> 30:11.080]  What is this for, sir?
[30:11.560 --> 30:14.240]  It's just for a letter that I wish to write.
[30:15.500 --> 30:15.940]  Okay.
[30:15.940 --> 30:17.020]  I can give you the address.
[30:17.020 --> 30:18.740]  I don't have a direct number for you.
[30:19.040 --> 30:22.080]  Well, I wanted to also call and leave a message, too.
[30:22.500 --> 30:26.100]  You can send an email, or you can write a letter.
[30:26.600 --> 30:27.780]  There's no telephone I can call?
[30:27.920 --> 30:28.100]  No.
[30:28.100 --> 30:29.160]  I've called it in the past.
[30:29.320 --> 30:29.640]  Really?
[30:29.860 --> 30:31.020]  In fact, I used to call it all the time.
[30:31.200 --> 30:31.700]  How long ago?
[30:31.700 --> 30:32.620]  Was it before 311?
[30:32.820 --> 30:33.900]  It was before 311, yeah.
[30:33.900 --> 30:34.780]  That's very possible.
[30:34.900 --> 30:37.920]  And now that it's 311, there's no number that you can call directly.
[30:38.060 --> 30:41.440]  You can either leave an opinion, send a letter, or an email.
[30:41.600 --> 30:42.620]  Oh, I see what you guys did.
[30:42.720 --> 30:42.920]  Okay.
[30:43.100 --> 30:46.960]  So now I can't call that number directly anymore.
[30:48.640 --> 30:49.860]  Do you know why that is?
[30:50.640 --> 30:53.440]  Everything is coming through 311 now.
[30:53.760 --> 30:53.980]  Uh-huh.
[30:55.260 --> 30:57.340]  But why can't we call the mayor's office directly?
[30:58.300 --> 31:00.440]  Well, it depends on what you're calling for, sir.
[31:00.640 --> 31:00.760]  Uh-huh.
[31:00.760 --> 31:03.700]  I mean, if you're calling, are you calling to speak with someone on the staff?
[31:04.100 --> 31:08.380]  Well, just to leave a general comment, sort of like, you know, the White House.
[31:08.460 --> 31:09.180]  I call them a lot, too.
[31:09.200 --> 31:10.100]  That's why you call 311.
[31:10.320 --> 31:14.380]  We take the opinions here now for the mayor, and we forward it over to the mayor's office.
[31:14.680 --> 31:16.160]  Do you take the opinions for the police, too?
[31:16.740 --> 31:17.940]  No, opinions for the mayor.
[31:18.100 --> 31:18.660]  Just for the mayor.
[31:18.760 --> 31:19.020]  Right.
[31:19.240 --> 31:19.400]  Okay.
[31:19.480 --> 31:20.420]  How about the deputy mayor?
[31:22.260 --> 31:24.060]  Would you take opinions for him as well, or...?
[31:24.060 --> 31:24.560]  Let's see.
[31:24.740 --> 31:25.100]  Opinion...
[31:25.100 --> 31:26.420]  I have opinion for the mayor.
[31:29.800 --> 31:33.460]  And opinions and comments about the mayor and the city policy.
[31:34.140 --> 31:34.720]  Let me see.
[31:34.720 --> 31:36.420]  It should be for the deputy mayor as well.
[31:37.360 --> 31:38.260]  One moment, okay?
[31:38.540 --> 31:38.780]  Okay.
[31:38.900 --> 31:39.160]  Thank you.
[31:40.640 --> 31:43.600]  Incidentally, for those people who want the number for the mayor, Mike has just found it for us.
[31:43.600 --> 31:53.840]  It's 212-788-7418, or 212-788-3000, or 212-788-9711.
[31:54.860 --> 31:55.520]  All right.
[31:56.760 --> 31:58.760]  It seems to have a lock on the 788 exchange.
[32:00.540 --> 32:01.320]  Thank you, Mike.
[32:01.720 --> 32:03.300]  Now, that's not his home number, is it?
[32:03.880 --> 32:03.900]  No.
[32:04.120 --> 32:04.940]  Okay, good.
[32:05.780 --> 32:06.440]  All right.
[32:07.120 --> 32:11.380]  Well, I'm going to tolerate this music for a little while longer while she looks into the deputy mayor information.
[32:12.940 --> 32:13.720]  Let's just relax.
[32:13.900 --> 32:16.760]  There's another letter to, uh...
[32:16.760 --> 32:17.120]  Oh.
[32:17.800 --> 32:18.260]  Hello?
[32:18.820 --> 32:19.060]  Oh.
[32:19.460 --> 32:20.540]  It's just a pause in the music.
[32:20.980 --> 32:23.200]  Let's read another letter to Off the Hook.
[32:23.580 --> 32:29.220]  I just wanted to drop a quick note to say thanks for your courageous coverage of the protest at the Republican Convention.
[32:29.220 --> 32:36.320]  Since I have been listening to your two shows each week regularly, I feel I know you well enough to have the experience vicariously.
[32:36.880 --> 32:43.540]  I attended and spoke at Hope, where I took the pictures of the armed NYPD under the Big Brother Who's Watching You banners.
[32:43.620 --> 32:44.260]  That was a good picture.
[32:44.400 --> 32:44.920]  I saw that.
[32:45.760 --> 32:49.260]  And so I can say firsthand how intimidating these guys are up close.
[32:49.980 --> 32:53.780]  On a similar note, I am now on some kind of list.
[32:54.560 --> 32:59.680]  The last two times I've flown since speaking at Hope, I have been searched thoroughly, and my bags held up.
[33:00.000 --> 33:02.080]  They had the little ticket that says they had been searched.
[33:02.640 --> 33:10.580]  Upon entering the queue for the metal detectors, the person screening to make sure you have a boarding pass has had only to look at my ticket to see...
[33:10.580 --> 33:10.740]  Sir?
[33:10.900 --> 33:11.080]  Yes?
[33:11.200 --> 33:12.020]  Thank you for holding.
[33:12.160 --> 33:13.640]  We can only take an opinion for the mayor.
[33:13.900 --> 33:15.660]  Do you have a phone number for the deputy mayor, then?
[33:15.800 --> 33:17.860]  I do not have a phone number for the deputy mayor.
[33:18.040 --> 33:18.440]  Oh, dear.
[33:19.120 --> 33:19.420]  Okay.
[33:20.420 --> 33:21.600]  I'll figure this out on my own, then.
[33:21.640 --> 33:22.360]  Thanks so much for your help.
[33:22.500 --> 33:23.920]  Is there anything else I can help you with?
[33:23.920 --> 33:24.840]  No, I think you've been very helpful.
[33:25.040 --> 33:26.340]  Thank you for calling New York City.
[33:26.500 --> 33:27.140]  Thank you for answering.
[33:27.760 --> 33:28.840]  And let's go back to Bernie.
[33:29.140 --> 33:29.820]  Bernie, are you there?
[33:31.000 --> 33:31.580]  Hello, Bernie.
[33:31.940 --> 33:32.440]  I'm back.
[33:32.600 --> 33:32.780]  Okay.
[33:32.900 --> 33:34.020]  I don't know if you're able to hear any of that.
[33:34.220 --> 33:35.860]  I heard the whole thing, and it was quite amusing.
[33:35.980 --> 33:36.200]  Okay.
[33:36.540 --> 33:40.700]  You can neither leave an opinion nor contact the deputy mayor's office.
[33:40.780 --> 33:42.240]  Yeah, I wasn't trying to be humorous.
[33:42.320 --> 33:43.060]  I was trying to be factual.
[33:43.060 --> 33:44.780]  Unfortunately, humor leaked through.
[33:44.940 --> 33:49.500]  This is how, you know, our elected officials get to represent us and, you know.
[33:49.680 --> 33:54.500]  I was just going to say, you should have just given her the number so that, you know, for future reference, she could have...
[33:54.500 --> 33:56.540]  I didn't want to be a wiseacre, you know.
[33:57.020 --> 33:57.720]  I really didn't.
[33:57.760 --> 33:58.760]  Let me finish this letter.
[33:59.700 --> 34:10.240]  So anyway, this person is traveling, traveling on an airplane, and apparently the ticket taker has only to look at my ticket to see I needed to be singled out.
[34:10.420 --> 34:13.000]  They said, I have a Schedule D here.
[34:13.000 --> 34:13.920]  That's what she yelled.
[34:13.920 --> 34:15.240]  I have a Schedule D.
[34:16.480 --> 34:17.880]  D, as in detainee.
[34:19.040 --> 34:22.280]  They took me aside and searched my bags in person thoroughly.
[34:22.480 --> 34:25.580]  On my way back from this trip, I was singled out again in this manner.
[34:25.780 --> 34:28.960]  This time, they even had me undo my pants and pull down the waistband.
[34:29.580 --> 34:31.240]  Boy, they're starting to take liberties here.
[34:31.580 --> 34:39.060]  I have been, quite literally, I've been flying more than monthly for over 20 years for business all over the world and have never before been singled out in this way.
[34:39.380 --> 34:44.980]  I took the chance of using my real name at the conference because I have nothing to hide and participate in no illegal activities.
[34:45.140 --> 34:49.280]  I have never before been singled out, and so I doubt that my two-for-two encounters are a coincidence.
[34:49.500 --> 34:51.640]  It seems Big Brother is watching me, too.
[34:51.860 --> 35:02.220]  I travel so much internationally, and I study politics as a hobby, and I found it impossible to believe rights violations under this president, including the rights of those abroad that have the misfortune of living in a country we disagree with.
[35:02.820 --> 35:07.760]  If my disagreement with the government's policies gets me on a list, then my desire to know what is really happening is satisfied.
[35:08.000 --> 35:13.680]  I now write and forward these facts to friends and family who have been convinced Bush is doing good works.
[35:15.380 --> 35:16.340]  I think that's what you have to do.
[35:16.460 --> 35:17.580]  You have to tell people about this.
[35:17.700 --> 35:18.980]  You have to get the word out to everybody.
[35:19.360 --> 35:20.400]  And I don't know.
[35:20.600 --> 35:23.900]  Do you think by using your real name at a hacker conference that'll get you on a list like this?
[35:23.900 --> 35:28.240]  I don't know if they have it that together where they can actually start screening people immediately after you give the real name.
[35:29.960 --> 35:30.800]  Bernie, are you okay?
[35:31.640 --> 35:32.280]  Did you hurt yourself?
[35:32.360 --> 35:34.140]  I barely missed being run over by a motorcycle.
[35:34.380 --> 35:34.640]  Wow.
[35:34.820 --> 35:36.420]  That was pretty dramatic there.
[35:36.660 --> 35:37.660]  You have a hell of an apartment.
[35:38.020 --> 35:38.320]  Yeah.
[35:39.800 --> 35:41.920]  So that's something to be concerned with.
[35:42.180 --> 35:48.720]  And of course, we've been reading in the newspaper about new ways that the airlines are going to be searching you.
[35:49.180 --> 35:54.200]  You will be asked to take off your jacket now many times when you travel.
[35:54.380 --> 35:55.260]  Mark, you just traveled.
[35:55.400 --> 35:56.020]  Any problems?
[35:56.360 --> 35:58.100]  Oh, I had a very interesting encounter.
[35:58.100 --> 36:00.580]  I was at a hard drive in my carry-on.
[36:00.740 --> 36:04.980]  And they did a little mom sniff on it.
[36:05.080 --> 36:07.920]  And they said, they pulled me aside.
[36:08.080 --> 36:10.220]  They brought a police officer over to stand next to me.
[36:10.600 --> 36:14.160]  And they said, this just tested positive for nitroglycerin.
[36:16.360 --> 36:17.160]  You laugh!
[36:17.300 --> 36:18.540]  But I laugh too, actually.
[36:18.660 --> 36:19.120]  My goodness.
[36:19.280 --> 36:21.640]  And I said, well, that's very interesting.
[36:21.840 --> 36:23.260]  And I said, so what happens now?
[36:23.260 --> 36:26.240]  And they said, well, so why?
[36:26.320 --> 36:27.820]  Why is this testing positive for nitroglycerin?
[36:27.820 --> 36:29.220]  And I said, I have no idea.
[36:29.400 --> 36:30.680]  I said, you know.
[36:30.760 --> 36:31.560]  And they said, well, what's in there?
[36:31.620 --> 36:32.400]  I said, it's a hard drive.
[36:32.520 --> 36:35.000]  And they said, well, we need to take it apart.
[36:35.080 --> 36:37.000]  And they said, well, I don't want you to take it apart.
[36:37.040 --> 36:38.020]  It's a hard drive.
[36:38.100 --> 36:39.400]  You know, you're going to wreck it.
[36:40.180 --> 36:42.560]  That didn't have the master copy of the new album on it, did it?
[36:42.560 --> 36:49.040]  No, but they said, well, have you been doing any gardening, you know, involve any fertilizer?
[36:49.040 --> 36:50.360]  I guess there's nitrates in them.
[36:50.460 --> 36:53.580]  And this can test out as a false positive.
[36:54.540 --> 36:55.800]  And I said, no.
[36:56.320 --> 37:01.140]  And they finally, they said, they kind of looked around some more.
[37:01.280 --> 37:05.120]  And then they brought someone from the airlines to sit with me and, you know, kind of be there.
[37:05.140 --> 37:08.100]  And I had to fill out a bunch of forms with my name and give my ID.
[37:09.460 --> 37:13.880]  And I said, what are you going to do if it just keeps testing positive over and over and over again?
[37:14.560 --> 37:19.300]  And the guy said, oh, we'd have to take it out on the, you know, outside and blow it up.
[37:20.420 --> 37:22.620]  And then he kind of laughed like, I'm just kidding.
[37:24.260 --> 37:25.040]  So what happened?
[37:25.260 --> 37:31.100]  Well, what happened is I, they finally, they kept kind of, you know, being kind of a little tough, you know, like, come on.
[37:31.180 --> 37:32.260]  I mean, why is this testing positive?
[37:32.420 --> 37:33.840]  And I said, I said, you know what?
[37:34.000 --> 37:37.080]  I said, I know enough about these machines you're using.
[37:37.080 --> 37:38.780]  They test false positive all the time.
[37:38.920 --> 37:45.540]  I said, this whole thing is, you know, making some company millions of dollars who's selling your airlines all these different bomb testing things.
[37:45.560 --> 37:47.140]  But, of course, they don't always work.
[37:47.200 --> 37:49.440]  And I said, you're just, your machine doesn't work.
[37:49.560 --> 37:50.480]  That's the explanation.
[37:50.740 --> 37:51.680]  I've done nothing wrong.
[37:51.860 --> 37:55.900]  And finally, the guy said, well, do you use any hand lotion?
[37:56.960 --> 37:57.860]  And I lied.
[37:57.860 --> 37:59.480]  And I said, oh, that was it.
[37:59.660 --> 38:00.920]  He was looking for an out.
[38:01.040 --> 38:02.180]  I used some hand lotion.
[38:02.540 --> 38:03.780]  That would be what it is.
[38:03.880 --> 38:05.220]  When you were six, you used hand lotion.
[38:05.220 --> 38:08.620]  I used glycerin and in hand lotions, and it can test positive.
[38:09.000 --> 38:11.200]  So what did you really get on the airplane there?
[38:12.860 --> 38:16.720]  But what was really disturbing to me was I thought, okay, I now am in a system.
[38:16.880 --> 38:22.120]  I am now in there as a false, as testing positive for nitroglycerin.
[38:22.220 --> 38:24.700]  And now they're saying, well, he's okay.
[38:24.900 --> 38:25.480]  But I'm in there.
[38:25.560 --> 38:26.380]  I'm sure that I'm in there.
[38:26.460 --> 38:27.000]  I'm sure it doesn't.
[38:27.040 --> 38:28.100]  They don't dump you out.
[38:28.580 --> 38:29.740]  There's a lot of us in there.
[38:29.920 --> 38:30.060]  Right.
[38:30.060 --> 38:30.680]  You're in good company.
[38:30.680 --> 38:37.540]  So what happens if, if this stays in play for the rest of my life, which it probably is, what happens if, say, a few years from now, I test positive again?
[38:37.580 --> 38:38.820]  And what happens if, say, 10 years?
[38:38.940 --> 38:43.100]  I mean, is there some sort of little program in there that says, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding?
[38:43.220 --> 38:47.940]  He's tested false positive for some such bomb sniffing thing three times in 15 years.
[38:47.940 --> 38:50.560]  He's now on a no-fly list or something.
[38:50.700 --> 38:51.880]  It just made me wonder about that.
[38:51.880 --> 38:53.500]  Well, before you leave, let's go out to a farm.
[38:53.500 --> 38:56.740]  You can roll around in the fertilizer for a little while and we can find that a lot quicker.
[38:57.060 --> 39:03.380]  What I didn't get to ask them was, after I left, I wanted to know and say, well, what happened to the data you just took about me?
[39:03.420 --> 39:04.140]  Where does that go?
[39:04.380 --> 39:04.940]  Do you just throw it?
[39:04.940 --> 39:06.260]  I don't think you're going to throw it in the garbage.
[39:06.460 --> 39:08.040]  I think you're going to enter it all into a database.
[39:08.080 --> 39:09.380]  And do you think they're going to tell you the truth?
[39:09.660 --> 39:12.580]  No, but I like to ask those questions anyway and just see what they say.
[39:12.780 --> 39:13.360]  It's kind of fun.
[39:13.500 --> 39:19.240]  The alternate possibility is, of course, that you're now in the database as a hand lotion user and you can bring real bombs on the plants, no problem.
[39:19.340 --> 39:20.340]  Chronic masturbator.
[39:20.840 --> 39:21.920]  That would be...
[39:21.920 --> 39:22.480]  Oh, my goodness.
[39:22.780 --> 39:25.740]  Of course, a terrorist would use hand lotion and get away with all kinds of things.
[39:25.840 --> 39:26.440]  This is true.
[39:27.540 --> 39:29.160]  Well, now I'm even more afraid than ever.
[39:29.860 --> 39:30.220]  Okay.
[39:30.280 --> 39:32.600]  And we also have this news item, the TSA.
[39:32.820 --> 39:34.500]  This was a TSA person you were talking to, I assume.
[39:34.600 --> 39:34.820]  Yes.
[39:34.980 --> 39:35.140]  Okay.
[39:35.300 --> 39:37.540]  The TSA Transportation Security Administration.
[39:37.960 --> 39:39.480]  Transportation Security or Transportation Safety?
[39:40.800 --> 39:41.400]  What do we care?
[39:41.400 --> 39:41.860]  I thought it was safety.
[39:41.960 --> 39:43.180]  Well, AP seems to think it's security.
[39:43.320 --> 39:43.740]  Maybe they're right.
[39:43.980 --> 39:52.700]  They announced on Tuesday that they will order domestic airlines to turn over personal information about passengers to test a system that will compare their names to those on terrorist watch list.
[39:52.800 --> 39:57.040]  I don't know how complex a system it is that compares names, but the system is called Secure Flight.
[39:57.260 --> 40:03.340]  It replaces a previous plan that would have checked passenger names against commercial databases and assigned a risk level to each.
[40:03.340 --> 40:08.700]  That plan, which caused $103 million, was abandoned because of privacy concerns and technological issues.
[40:08.900 --> 40:11.840]  The airlines will have 30 days to comment on the proposed order.
[40:12.160 --> 40:13.720]  I guess we don't get a chance to do that.
[40:13.880 --> 40:16.260]  Which Congress gave the TSA authority to issue.
[40:16.500 --> 40:22.420]  Air carriers will then have 10 days to turn over data that had gathered in June called passenger name records.
[40:22.600 --> 40:25.020]  The amount of data in passenger name records varies by airline.
[40:25.200 --> 40:29.760]  It typically includes name, flight origin, flight destination, flight time, duration of flight, form of payment.
[40:29.760 --> 40:36.940]  It can also include credit card numbers, address, telephone number, meal requests, and it can indicate a person's ethnicity.
[40:38.000 --> 40:40.360]  So, uh, that's, uh, that's the latest.
[40:40.940 --> 40:42.060]  Secure Flight, yeah.
[40:42.280 --> 40:44.280]  I've got to keep an eye on those people who order the fish.
[40:44.440 --> 40:46.220]  Do you have an article on the Barlow suit?
[40:46.880 --> 40:47.760]  Uh, I do not.
[40:48.040 --> 40:49.020]  What, what Barlow suit?
[40:49.220 --> 40:54.360]  Uh, our, our, uh, friend, the former, uh, lyricist for a few songs by the Greatful Dead.
[40:54.400 --> 40:55.720]  Mark was hanging out with earlier this week.
[40:55.840 --> 40:56.600]  See, it's a small world.
[40:56.680 --> 40:57.240]  We all know each other.
[40:57.300 --> 40:57.920]  It's an amazing world.
[40:57.920 --> 41:04.680]  Uh, he's been suing the TSA because he's been in many a TIF aboard a plane.
[41:05.500 --> 41:07.280]  And, uh, essentially...
[41:07.280 --> 41:07.940]  What do you mean John, John Gilmore?
[41:08.500 --> 41:08.900]  John?
[41:08.900 --> 41:09.400]  John Gilmore?
[41:09.680 --> 41:09.960]  Barlow.
[41:10.180 --> 41:11.280]  Yeah, I don't think Barlow is involved in this.
[41:11.280 --> 41:12.140]  I think it's John Gilmore.
[41:12.560 --> 41:13.140]  I'm sorry.
[41:13.380 --> 41:13.620]  All right.
[41:13.840 --> 41:15.040]  It's, it's the first name.
[41:15.240 --> 41:16.020]  It's, it matches.
[41:16.240 --> 41:17.180]  I think it's the same person.
[41:17.500 --> 41:17.780]  That's what the answer is.
[41:17.780 --> 41:18.720]  How many Johns are in?
[41:20.100 --> 41:20.520]  It's like...
[41:20.520 --> 41:22.260]  It's an understandable, you know...
[41:22.260 --> 41:25.540]  It's like Grover Cleveland Alexander, the pitching president of the United States.
[41:25.540 --> 41:32.520]  But anyway, uh, essentially he was, uh, stopped on a flight and asked to see the law governing whatever would happen.
[41:32.520 --> 41:34.100]  And they said, no, we can't show you the law.
[41:34.280 --> 41:37.920]  And he's, he sued the TSA and the federal government.
[41:38.200 --> 41:45.240]  And they, before the judge, told the judge, we can't show you the law because then his lawyers and he will see it.
[41:45.520 --> 41:48.900]  And the judge said, that's panically absurd and the trial will continue.
[41:49.100 --> 41:49.620]  End of story.
[41:50.480 --> 41:50.880]  Okay.
[41:51.020 --> 41:53.120]  Well, uh, we're following that one.
[41:53.220 --> 41:53.760]  We will follow that.
[41:53.760 --> 41:59.420]  And when that gets decided, uh, one way or another, it certainly will, uh, be something we, we, we discuss.
[41:59.700 --> 42:01.340]  Uh, we have another track we're going to...
[42:01.340 --> 42:02.800]  We won't be able to play the whole thing because it's too long.
[42:02.920 --> 42:04.840]  But, uh, we'll play as much of it as we can.
[42:04.920 --> 42:07.500]  Oh, just a little, you know, a little bit of, uh, bit of it.
[42:07.540 --> 42:10.880]  I don't know if we're going to have time for the a cappella version of Christianity is stupid.
[42:10.920 --> 42:11.760]  We're going to go out with that.
[42:11.760 --> 42:13.280]  But, uh, I think you've got to hear that.
[42:13.440 --> 42:14.420]  This is, uh...
[42:14.420 --> 42:17.580]  This is another track that's from this project, the No Business project we're doing.
[42:17.740 --> 42:19.100]  This one's actually called No Business.
[42:19.100 --> 42:27.340]  And this is made out of a, uh, this is, uh, our good friend Ethel Merman and, uh, a song called, uh, There's No Business Like Show Business.
[42:27.440 --> 42:34.780]  And we've, uh, found a version made in, a big band version in the 50s and a wonderful disco version that she, if we get to that, I don't know when you're going to have to fade it out.
[42:34.880 --> 42:36.140]  I remember the disco version, actually.
[42:36.280 --> 42:38.200]  Oh, well, there, well, it's, it's, it's very good.
[42:38.320 --> 42:43.040]  And we've, we've altered it a little bit, so it kind of becomes about something very different than what it originally was.
[42:43.160 --> 42:45.780]  And when we come back, your phone calls, 212-209-2900.
[42:45.780 --> 42:48.820]  This is another Negative Land, yeah, an unreleased Negative Land track.
[42:48.820 --> 42:50.380]  So, I hope you enjoyed this.
[43:04.290 --> 43:10.730]  There's no business like stealing, like no business, I know.
[43:11.790 --> 43:19.090]  Everything about it is appealing, stealing, everything that traffic will allow.
[43:20.070 --> 43:27.370]  Nowhere could you get that happy feeling, when you are stealing, people like show people.
[43:27.370 --> 43:33.210]  There's no stealing, like stealing, show people.
[43:39.690 --> 43:43.670]  The headaches, the heartaches, the backaches, the flops.
[43:45.710 --> 43:50.410]  Even when you are stealing, the turkey that you know will fall.
[43:50.950 --> 43:54.650]  You may be stealing, out in the cold.
[43:55.170 --> 43:58.150]  Still you wouldn't change it, for a sack of gold.
[43:58.150 --> 44:04.750]  Let's go on with the stealing, stealing, stealing.
[44:05.890 --> 44:06.970]  And why?
[44:07.070 --> 44:08.610]  Why, why, why, why, baby?
[44:08.870 --> 44:10.470]  Why, why, why, why, baby?
[44:10.610 --> 44:12.310]  Why, why, why, why, baby?
[44:12.730 --> 44:17.590]  Because there's no business like stealing music.
[44:17.590 --> 44:18.490]  I know!
[44:20.690 --> 44:23.870]  Angels come from everywhere with lots of music.
[44:24.290 --> 44:28.070]  And when you butcher it, there's no attack.
[44:28.590 --> 44:31.750]  Where could you get music that you don't give back?
[44:32.170 --> 44:38.890]  And cover that to get that happy feeling When you are stealing That extra music.
[44:40.370 --> 44:43.370]  Let's go on with the stealing.
[44:44.050 --> 44:44.490]  Why?
[44:49.690 --> 44:51.370]  We can't bear.
[44:51.750 --> 44:52.570]  The music.
[44:52.890 --> 44:54.070]  Like butcher music.
[44:54.490 --> 44:56.790]  Like no music I know.
[44:57.730 --> 45:01.430]  The music business people has lots of jack.
[45:01.430 --> 45:04.490]  They don't run out of dough.
[45:05.770 --> 45:07.590]  The music, watch out!
[45:07.830 --> 45:13.370]  They gladly get paid for what they do, but they're stranded out in the cold.
[45:18.310 --> 45:19.450]  And why?
[45:20.610 --> 45:24.050]  And the music, music, music, watch out!
[45:34.430 --> 45:39.610]  Alright, and this is part of the new Negative Land piece that Mark has brought with us today.
[45:40.010 --> 45:41.530]  Mark Hosler from Negative Land.
[45:43.130 --> 45:43.490]  Interesting.
[45:43.830 --> 45:45.750]  Ethel Mormon must be spinning in her...
[45:45.750 --> 45:46.510]  She did die, didn't she?
[45:46.630 --> 45:46.930]  Yeah, okay.
[45:47.070 --> 45:47.870]  Yeah, she's spinning.
[45:48.450 --> 45:49.750]  But boy, does she deliver.
[45:49.990 --> 45:50.630]  Yeah, she certainly does.
[45:50.650 --> 45:52.290]  She's got quite a singing style there, doesn't she?
[45:53.730 --> 45:54.090]  Unforgettable.
[45:54.390 --> 45:54.750]  Unforgettable.
[45:55.710 --> 45:58.890]  Alright, 212-209-2900 is our phone number.
[45:59.030 --> 46:05.430]  We're here with Mark Hosler from Negative Land and Bill SF from Amsterdam, which is not a band, it's a city, but still, it's really cool to be in.
[46:06.390 --> 46:08.890]  And our usual cast of characters, Bernie S.
[46:09.010 --> 46:09.610]  down there in Philadelphia.
[46:11.210 --> 46:12.330]  Let's see who's out there.
[46:14.850 --> 46:16.150]  And good evening, you're on the air.
[46:17.390 --> 46:17.630]  What?
[46:17.890 --> 46:19.290]  Okay, yeah, you're going to have to turn down your radio.
[46:20.490 --> 46:21.790]  You're listening on the internet, obviously.
[46:21.930 --> 46:22.610]  I can't hear a thing.
[46:22.770 --> 46:24.350]  Well, that's because you have the music up.
[46:24.630 --> 46:25.270]  No, you have it.
[46:25.330 --> 46:25.630]  Come on.
[46:25.870 --> 46:28.430]  Alright, we're not going to get into an argument before we even say anything.
[46:28.430 --> 46:29.310]  Good evening, you're on the air.
[46:30.050 --> 46:30.370]  Hello.
[46:30.930 --> 46:31.850]  Oh, you know, he's right.
[46:32.130 --> 46:32.650]  He's right.
[46:32.790 --> 46:33.570]  It was playing still.
[46:33.570 --> 46:34.010]  I'm sorry.
[46:34.950 --> 46:35.490]  I'm sorry.
[46:36.110 --> 46:37.830]  It's this machinery here.
[46:37.970 --> 46:39.930]  Even though you turn it down, it still feeds over the phone.
[46:40.050 --> 46:42.030]  But only that CD player does that.
[46:42.330 --> 46:43.990]  Apologies to that listener I hung up on.
[46:45.270 --> 46:46.550]  I don't know how we can make it up to you.
[46:46.710 --> 46:47.230]  What is it?
[46:47.490 --> 46:48.490]  I'm sorry, what was that?
[46:48.530 --> 46:49.430]  What number CD player is it?
[46:49.750 --> 46:50.370]  Number three.
[46:50.530 --> 46:51.210]  It is number three.
[46:51.350 --> 46:52.410]  Yeah, I've heard people say that before.
[46:53.130 --> 46:54.570]  Our listeners know our CD players?
[46:54.730 --> 46:55.150]  Oh, yeah.
[46:55.410 --> 46:57.070]  I mean, because it always bleeds down to the phone.
[46:57.830 --> 46:59.730]  Our listeners know more about our equipment than we do.
[46:59.870 --> 47:00.330]  It's like a year.
[47:01.510 --> 47:02.630]  Well, you know, I don't...
[47:02.630 --> 47:10.150]  There's that, and there's also the thing where sometimes it sounds like you're Darth Vader and the telephone, you know, the host of the radio show does, and nobody knows what causes that.
[47:11.410 --> 47:13.150]  Anyway, I'm sure that's not why you called.
[47:13.190 --> 47:13.690]  What's on your mind?
[47:13.770 --> 47:18.670]  Oh, there are many deputy mayors, so you can't just ask for a deputy mayor.
[47:18.790 --> 47:26.010]  If you said, I want, you know, a particular deputy mayor, and you had their name, if you said, I want Joe Blow's phone number, they would say, oh, here's his phone number.
[47:26.010 --> 47:31.170]  Isn't it interesting that the 311 lady didn't seem to know that fact, that there are many deputy mayors?
[47:31.290 --> 47:31.510]  Yeah, well...
[47:31.510 --> 47:32.590]  She thought there was one.
[47:33.850 --> 47:35.110]  You know, you're asking too much.
[47:35.110 --> 47:36.070]  You should work for 311.
[47:36.550 --> 47:37.470]  Oh, yeah, totally.
[47:38.710 --> 47:40.030]  I know the city pretty well.
[47:40.190 --> 47:42.310]  There's a whole posse of deputy mayors.
[47:42.770 --> 47:43.610]  Yeah, I know.
[47:43.690 --> 47:44.710]  It's a large number of them.
[47:44.770 --> 47:46.250]  They're for different tasks, you know?
[47:46.250 --> 47:51.630]  They kind of oversee different sectors, you know, different agencies, you know, it's kind of like a tree structure.
[47:51.810 --> 47:56.830]  You get the mayor and then deputy mayors, and they kind of oversee several different agencies and whatever, blah, blah, blah.
[47:56.830 --> 47:59.070]  So which deputy mayor is in charge of illegality?
[47:59.750 --> 48:00.730]  Oh, they all are.
[48:00.870 --> 48:01.350]  Oh, okay.
[48:02.310 --> 48:03.210]  Everybody's guilty here.
[48:03.590 --> 48:04.150]  All right.
[48:04.650 --> 48:04.970]  See you later.
[48:05.090 --> 48:05.670]  Thanks for your call.
[48:07.370 --> 48:07.970]  Good evening.
[48:08.070 --> 48:08.510]  You're on the air.
[48:09.970 --> 48:10.550]  Go ahead.
[48:11.110 --> 48:11.910]  Oh, hi.
[48:12.070 --> 48:12.430]  How you doing?
[48:12.430 --> 48:19.770]  Um, okay, I was listening to your yet one more horrible story of what's happening with the airlines.
[48:20.010 --> 48:20.410]  Uh-huh.
[48:21.010 --> 48:30.530]  And, um, I'm wondering, why don't, why doesn't everybody who fly, unless they're going to Europe or something, just tell the airlines to take a hike?
[48:30.710 --> 48:33.190]  They'll find some other means of transportation.
[48:33.630 --> 48:36.650]  Well, that would be great if we lived in a country that had a decent rail service.
[48:36.710 --> 48:39.830]  I'd love to take trains from places, you know, from city to city.
[48:40.390 --> 48:47.870]  Uh, it's hard, you know, to get around this country, it, it, it, you know, if you want to get around in a timely manner, you do have to take an airplane, Mark.
[48:47.870 --> 48:49.590]  You're going to be taking an airplane back to California, right?
[48:49.590 --> 48:52.630]  Well, why don't we revise our, uh, notion of timely?
[48:53.110 --> 48:53.330]  Mm-hmm.
[48:53.330 --> 48:55.590]  There used to be a time when there were no airplanes.
[48:56.110 --> 48:56.970]  True, true.
[48:57.550 --> 49:02.550]  But there was also, you know, no California in the same sense that it is now.
[49:03.310 --> 49:05.090]  Uh, but no, I, I hear what you're saying.
[49:05.210 --> 49:05.850]  I hear what you're saying.
[49:05.990 --> 49:06.990]  And people do need to stand up.
[49:06.990 --> 49:10.030]  It's not like there's nothing between New York and California.
[49:10.150 --> 49:11.290]  It's a great country.
[49:12.270 --> 49:13.250]  Yes, yeah, it is.
[49:13.390 --> 49:15.610]  You know, I want to buy a motor home and see it.
[49:16.970 --> 49:21.830]  Well, you won't have to worry about, uh, you know, showing all your ID and things.
[49:21.990 --> 49:23.070]  At least not, not yet.
[49:23.710 --> 49:24.230]  Who knows?
[49:24.630 --> 49:27.710]  Can you imagine going to a trailer park and you have to do all this?
[49:28.170 --> 49:30.370]  Well, I've never been to a trailer park, so I don't know, you know.
[49:31.590 --> 49:32.590]  Okay, thanks a lot.
[49:32.670 --> 49:33.250]  Thanks for your call.
[49:33.470 --> 49:33.630]  Bye.
[49:33.710 --> 49:34.690]  This woman has a good point.
[49:35.170 --> 49:35.710]  Which is?
[49:36.990 --> 49:44.390]  The, uh, the, the, the economic nature of that kind of a boycott would, I think, make the government cry, cry uncle.
[49:44.690 --> 49:50.750]  You see, the thing, though, Bernie, is that the airlines lose billions of dollars and the government just keeps giving them more money.
[49:50.850 --> 49:52.950]  It doesn't matter how much money they lose.
[49:53.150 --> 49:58.230]  If, if nobody flew the airlines, I think the government will continue to just give them more money so they can stay afloat.
[49:58.230 --> 50:05.990]  To a point, to a point, but I think, I think if everyone stuck to it, not that it's ever going to happen, but I think if almost everybody stuck to it, it would affect change.
[50:05.990 --> 50:07.410]  But this is not going to happen.
[50:07.630 --> 50:07.990]  Exactly.
[50:08.150 --> 50:13.830]  Because people are too enmeshed, too, yes, you're, you're, you know, it's an interesting idea, but people are too enmeshed in the particular system.
[50:14.010 --> 50:21.290]  And, I mean, the number of people who can fly now, because the prices have gone down so much, is at an, you know, an all-time high.
[50:21.290 --> 50:21.870]  It's incredible.
[50:22.130 --> 50:25.030]  It's people are using it more and more like taking a bus or a train.
[50:25.030 --> 50:26.590]  It's cheaper than a bus sometimes.
[50:26.850 --> 50:28.370]  Yeah, so it's, it changes it.
[50:28.470 --> 50:29.710]  It's like you get used to that.
[50:29.850 --> 50:36.110]  It's just like, you know, if you're old enough, you certainly can remember back in the day when you didn't have email and the internet and you did just fine.
[50:36.110 --> 50:38.030]  Your life, you know, was okay.
[50:38.210 --> 50:39.310]  And now you have email on the plane.
[50:39.430 --> 50:52.330]  And now you have so many, for many, many people, like myself, certainly myself, I have so many contacts and so many things I'm able to achieve and do because of email that if it all ended, I would be in a lot of deep, you know, doo-doo.
[50:52.450 --> 50:53.310]  Yes, yes.
[50:53.310 --> 50:58.490]  And it's very, that's the scary thing about entering into such a digital world because it's ones and zeros.
[50:58.670 --> 51:02.250]  Analog world can gradually go a little funky, but you can still fudge it and make it work.
[51:02.390 --> 51:06.390]  When digital world goes bad, it's just, it either works or it doesn't work.
[51:06.550 --> 51:07.690]  It's all or it's nothing.
[51:07.850 --> 51:08.410]  You're nodding, Bill.
[51:08.510 --> 51:08.830]  You agree?
[51:09.070 --> 51:09.870]  I definitely agree.
[51:09.910 --> 51:10.950]  It's very disturbing.
[51:11.170 --> 51:15.970]  It's a whole scary house of cards or what I sometimes would call after 9-11, it's like the box cutter effect.
[51:16.130 --> 51:18.750]  You know, it all can come down just because of something incredibly simple.
[51:19.110 --> 51:19.350]  Mm-hmm.
[51:19.870 --> 51:20.190]  All right.
[51:20.690 --> 51:21.230]  Well, okay.
[51:21.810 --> 51:23.110]  212-209-2900.
[51:23.110 --> 51:24.710]  Let's see if we can...
[51:24.710 --> 51:26.470]  Amtrak, by the way, claims to require ID.
[51:26.870 --> 51:27.630]  They do, but...
[51:27.630 --> 51:28.450]  But it's kind of fake.
[51:28.570 --> 51:33.650]  If you use their machine, you don't have to show ID, but you have to use a credit card that, I don't know, all things crazy.
[51:33.650 --> 51:34.750]  Let's go to our next call.
[51:34.850 --> 51:35.170]  Good evening.
[51:35.290 --> 51:35.510]  You're on.
[51:35.990 --> 51:36.630]  Hi, Emmanuel.
[51:36.830 --> 51:37.010]  Yes.
[51:37.010 --> 51:45.930]  I was sitting here going through, after you mentioned the numbers for the mayor's office, going through a Rudy Giuliani edition of the Green Book.
[51:46.030 --> 51:46.370]  Oh.
[51:46.630 --> 51:55.490]  And the 7418 is listed from his administration as the Community Assistance Unit at 51 Chambers.
[51:56.010 --> 51:56.630]  Okay.
[51:56.630 --> 51:58.790]  Which is not what you want anyway.
[51:59.030 --> 52:03.150]  I couldn't find anything for the 9711.
[52:03.850 --> 52:08.570]  And the other one is the main number, the 800 or whatever it is.
[52:08.630 --> 52:09.570]  788-3000.
[52:09.570 --> 52:10.150]  Yeah.
[52:10.450 --> 52:12.210]  Listen, now, a couple of things I want to mention.
[52:12.410 --> 52:29.550]  One I want to tell you, a couple of years ago, I was at a function, and I went up to one of our progressive city council members and asked him why no one was doing anything about the fact that our voter registration information was being sold to direct marketers.
[52:30.370 --> 52:34.310]  He looked at me and said, it's public property, and he walked away.
[52:34.310 --> 52:40.870]  And this was Phil Reed, one of our most progressive city council members in Manhattan.
[52:41.150 --> 52:43.790]  Try asking it of a non-progressive and see what happens.
[52:44.130 --> 52:44.350]  Oh, exactly.
[52:44.890 --> 52:54.870]  Now, I also, I just want to quickly mention, anybody who's in the area tomorrow on the west side, to please come to FIT, the auditorium, on 27th Street.
[52:55.030 --> 52:59.930]  It's one of the big hearings, and hopefully there'll be a lot of us who are against the stadium.
[53:00.190 --> 53:01.650]  That's what the hearing is about.
[53:01.850 --> 53:02.150]  Okay.
[53:02.290 --> 53:02.850]  It's a biggie.
[53:02.850 --> 53:03.890]  It's 9 o'clock.
[53:04.030 --> 53:06.510]  It starts at 9 tomorrow morning.
[53:06.590 --> 53:12.010]  The FIT auditorium on west 27th against the stadium.
[53:12.630 --> 53:14.490]  And keep doing the good work.
[53:14.610 --> 53:16.990]  And, oh, yeah, I was really pissed to hear that they took you in, too.
[53:17.230 --> 53:17.430]  Ah!
[53:17.690 --> 53:18.210]  So was I.
[53:18.390 --> 53:19.190]  Such nonsense.
[53:19.490 --> 53:20.150]  Such nonsense.
[53:20.150 --> 53:21.030]  Thanks very much.
[53:21.070 --> 53:21.130]  Bye, honey.
[53:21.250 --> 53:21.350]  Bye.
[53:21.970 --> 53:28.890]  The voter registration rolls are a public record, regardless of how progressive the person you talk to is or isn't.
[53:29.670 --> 53:31.450]  Yeah, but is the city selling this?
[53:31.450 --> 53:37.770]  I mean, as a public record, you can go to the Board of Elections and get a copy.
[53:37.950 --> 53:38.590]  Seems like you can get it for free.
[53:38.750 --> 53:41.070]  I mean, you have to pay a copy in costs, basically.
[53:41.910 --> 53:42.590]  I don't know.
[53:43.990 --> 53:46.450]  Yeah, interesting facts there.
[53:47.690 --> 53:51.410]  Also, I mentioned the hearing that took place last week, the city council hearing.
[53:51.610 --> 53:56.290]  If anybody out there understands this cable TV outlet known as NYCTV, have you heard of this?
[53:56.490 --> 53:57.330]  Channel 74.
[53:57.610 --> 54:01.290]  They air council hearings, except they never tell you which one they're going to be airing.
[54:01.470 --> 54:16.190]  I caught the tail end, the tail end of last week's hearing at 5 o'clock in the morning today, and I figured they'd repeat it at 10 o'clock when their next one was scheduled, but instead they repeated one from two days ago, or from actually the 13th, two days earlier before the 15th.
[54:16.290 --> 54:28.290]  So if anybody knows when they're going to re-air the city council hearing from September 15th, a week ago today, please either tape it or let me know somehow, because I'd really like to see what happened there.
[54:28.590 --> 54:31.330]  I called them, I even asked them, and they don't even know when they're going to air it.
[54:31.390 --> 54:33.190]  I think they throw tapes in at random over there.
[54:33.630 --> 54:34.730]  What was the topic of the hearing?
[54:34.870 --> 54:35.190]  It was...
[54:35.190 --> 54:37.010]  The topic was the police action at the RNC.
[54:37.230 --> 54:37.490]  Ah.
[54:37.690 --> 54:41.910]  Yeah, and it was a pretty fiery hearing, and I'd sure like to see it since I couldn't see that.
[54:41.910 --> 54:42.610]  You should ask...
[54:42.610 --> 54:44.270]  You should ask to buy a copy of it.
[54:44.410 --> 54:45.270]  If I can do that.
[54:45.470 --> 54:46.470]  Well, ask them.
[54:46.550 --> 54:49.530]  How are they going to find the tape if they don't know what they're putting in their VCRs?
[54:49.550 --> 54:50.230]  They'll see it sooner or later.
[54:50.330 --> 54:50.570]  All right.
[54:52.330 --> 54:53.370]  Let's see if we have time for...
[54:53.370 --> 54:55.670]  No, actually, we don't have time for one more card, because we might go out with this piece.
[54:56.130 --> 54:58.150]  Oh, and check out my letter in the New York Press.
[54:58.270 --> 54:58.830]  I was going to read it.
[54:59.090 --> 55:03.990]  I actually wrote a letter about their editorial about the RNC demonstrators, the detainees.
[55:04.110 --> 55:12.130]  They called them spoiled brats for complaining about getting their hands dirty on the floor and ingesting all kinds of chemicals and being detained for two days.
[55:13.390 --> 55:16.870]  So I read a little piece, and it's on page three in this week's New York Press.
[55:17.010 --> 55:19.850]  So hopefully open some eyes with that.
[55:20.250 --> 55:20.650]  All right.
[55:20.650 --> 55:23.150]  Let's open some eyes with this music that we're going to play on the way out.
[55:23.710 --> 55:25.150]  Mark, you want to tell us something about it?
[55:25.150 --> 55:25.510]  Yes.
[55:26.710 --> 55:31.630]  Another project we've been working on is a DVD compiling all this film work we've been doing for years and years.
[55:31.750 --> 55:37.850]  And if anyone follows what we do, you may not know that we've actually been hard at work making a whole lot of little movies no one's ever seen.
[55:37.890 --> 55:39.310]  And we're going to put that on 2005.
[55:39.310 --> 55:43.950]  But it's going to come with a special bonus CD that is a group from Detroit.
[55:44.130 --> 55:44.890]  The 180Gs.
[55:44.970 --> 55:50.570]  They're an acapella, five-piece acapella gospel, doo-wop kind of R&B harmony kind of band.
[55:50.570 --> 55:54.270]  And they have done acapella arrangements of all Negative Lens.
[55:54.430 --> 55:58.450]  It's sort of like a Greatest Hits cover record of all Negative Lens.
[55:58.530 --> 55:59.310]  Oh, this is great.
[55:59.370 --> 55:59.750]  Well-known songs.
[55:59.970 --> 56:00.570]  All arranged.
[56:00.730 --> 56:03.370]  Our tape-cut-up collage pieces have been arranged.
[56:03.430 --> 56:04.790]  And they're meticulously done.
[56:04.910 --> 56:08.430]  They're absolutely perfect renditions, but they're done in five-part harmony.
[56:08.430 --> 56:10.010]  So this is a rendition of what?
[56:10.170 --> 56:14.290]  This is a rendition of a very old tune of ours called Christianity is Stupid.
[56:14.470 --> 56:15.070]  Oh, the classic.
[56:15.230 --> 56:15.390]  Okay.
[56:15.410 --> 56:15.690]  Yes.
[56:15.790 --> 56:16.130]  Amazing.
[56:16.410 --> 56:20.690]  Hopefully, if some of you know the original version, this may surprise you.
[56:20.790 --> 56:23.650]  And when we heard this, we fell out of our chairs.
[56:23.650 --> 56:24.370]  And we're very excited.
[56:24.470 --> 56:25.630]  Mark, I want to thank you for stopping by.
[56:25.710 --> 56:27.590]  And best of luck with all your projects.
[56:27.810 --> 56:29.230]  Hopefully, you'll be at another conference soon.
[56:29.890 --> 56:31.630]  Bill, thanks so much for stopping by.
[56:31.830 --> 56:32.070]  Okay.
[56:32.390 --> 56:33.590]  We'll see you in Amsterdam.
[56:34.390 --> 56:34.550]  Yeah.
[56:34.770 --> 56:35.350]  See you in Amsterdam.
[56:35.630 --> 56:37.290]  With none of that new identity you're going to have.
[56:39.530 --> 56:40.570]  I can't hear myself.
[56:40.690 --> 56:41.170]  Oh, we can.
[56:41.370 --> 56:42.910]  Oh, good, good, good, good.
[56:43.410 --> 56:44.190]  See me in Amsterdam.
[56:45.110 --> 56:47.750]  Possibly, I could even do part of the show from there.
[56:48.030 --> 56:48.910]  Yeah, that would be cool, too.
[56:49.250 --> 56:49.690]  All right.
[56:49.770 --> 56:51.090]  Thanks, everybody else, for being here.
[56:51.230 --> 56:52.050]  And see you later, Bernie.
[56:52.570 --> 56:52.750]  Thanks.
[56:52.970 --> 56:55.390]  We'll go out with this piece, Christianity is Stupid.
[56:55.510 --> 56:55.710]  It's track six, though.
[56:55.870 --> 56:56.450]  Oh, it's track six.
[56:56.490 --> 56:56.830]  Yes, sir.
[56:56.830 --> 56:57.750]  We almost played the wrong thing.
[56:57.970 --> 56:58.050]  Yeah.
[56:58.290 --> 56:58.510]  Okay.
[56:58.750 --> 57:01.390]  Let's take a minute for the CD player to figure that out.
[57:01.590 --> 57:02.070]  All right.
[57:03.050 --> 57:03.690]  Good night, everybody.
[57:03.690 --> 57:05.050]  Thank you.
[57:05.050 --> 57:09.430]  Oh, the loudspeakers woke up and said...
[57:09.430 --> 57:24.000]  Oh, the loudspeakers broke up and said... Oh, the loudspeakers broke up and said...
[57:27.500 --> 57:31.310]  The loudspeakers broke up and said...
[57:31.310 --> 58:00.310]  Christianity is stupid.
[58:00.310 --> 58:02.910]  Christianity is stupid, stupid.
[58:05.670 --> 58:09.150]  Communism is good.
[58:17.870 --> 58:19.670]  Did you hear that?
[58:20.290 --> 58:27.430]  Give up, give up, give up, give up, give up.
[58:27.430 --> 58:29.370]  Christianity is stupid.
[58:44.300 --> 58:49.130]  Give up, give up, give up, give up, give up.
[58:49.590 --> 58:51.090]  Communism is good.
[58:51.690 --> 58:53.090]  Communism is good.
[58:53.090 --> 58:55.130]  The street is the enemy's stupid.
[58:55.390 --> 58:57.030]  The country is good.
[58:57.430 --> 59:01.110]  The streets are the enemy's stupid.
[59:02.770 --> 59:11.190]  The streets are the enemy's stupid.
[59:12.150 --> 59:14.010]  Police officers and teachers.
[59:14.290 --> 59:16.290]  And it just makes for better New York City.
[59:36.630 --> 59:38.790]  Hey, all right.
[59:39.390 --> 59:41.270]  Hey, Christianity is what?
[59:42.190 --> 59:46.710]  Anyway, you're listening to WBAI New York 99.5 FM.
[59:46.950 --> 59:48.390]  It is now 8 p.m.
[59:48.810 --> 59:49.330]  exactly.
[59:50.710 --> 59:51.970]  He's not paying attention.
[59:52.130 --> 59:52.730]  Joe's not looking.
[59:53.190 --> 59:53.570]  8 p.m.
[59:53.650 --> 59:53.950]  exactly.
[59:54.230 --> 59:57.310]  It is September 22nd, the day of the equinox.
[59:57.310 --> 01:00:00.170]  You can balance an egg in Central Park today.
[01:00:00.170 --> 01:00:02.530]  You can do all kinds of fantastic things.
[01:00:02.710 --> 01:00:04.670]  You're listening to WBAI.
[01:00:04.810 --> 01:00:10.290]  This is the award-winning Personal Computer Show.
[01:00:19.470 --> 01:00:23.890]  And welcome to the Personal Computer Show here on WBAI FM in New York.
[01:00:23.890 --> 01:00:24.970]  This is Joe King.