[00:00.000 --> 00:15.160]  To create more places, honest, competent, low-cost places that people can go for these services for every time we might find, you know, someone else simply opens up across the street from them if they get shut down because the demand is so great.
[00:15.320 --> 00:22.400]  So until we do something to meet the legitimate demand for services here, we're really not going to make any progress on this issue, I think.
[00:22.540 --> 00:29.560]  And as for Alicia, who didn't understand why someone was taking $90 from her every three months, she learned that her identity was stolen.
[00:29.560 --> 00:32.680]  It's still my identity.
[00:35.780 --> 00:37.460]  That's the problem.
[00:37.720 --> 00:41.300]  For Free Speech Radio News in New York City, I'm Leanne Caldwell.
[00:41.740 --> 00:46.940]  Free Speech Radio News commentator Mumia Abu-Jamal reporting from his cell on death row.
[00:47.280 --> 00:52.680]  I have learned that equality may not mean freedom, and freedom may not mean liberation.
[00:53.000 --> 00:56.720]  You can vote, my friend, and have no democracy.
[00:56.720 --> 01:03.120]  So said Benjamin Zephaniah, a black British poet, in Having a Word.
[01:03.540 --> 01:09.980]  This election may differ from the past dozen or so that has gone before, or it may be strikingly similar.
[01:10.260 --> 01:16.960]  That's because in any given presidential election, roughly half of the eligible electorate even bothers to vote.
[01:17.240 --> 01:20.840]  There are, of course, many reasons for this reticence to participate.
[01:20.840 --> 01:26.300]  But in numerical terms, that means roughly 100 million men and women don't bother.
[01:26.700 --> 01:38.900]  Thus, the major corporate parties split up the other 100 million, and he, it's always a he, isn't it, who garners 51% or more of that slice, gets to keep all the marbles and announce victory.
[01:39.780 --> 01:42.160]  That's an odd notion of democracy, isn't it?
[01:42.160 --> 01:47.520]  That majority really amounts to less than 25% of the national electorate.
[01:47.720 --> 01:58.120]  For example, during the 2000 presidential campaign, Democrat Al Gore received 48,971,067 votes.
[01:58.420 --> 02:00.480]  The Republican candidate, George W.
[02:00.700 --> 02:08.240]  Bush, received 48,779,508 votes.
[02:08.240 --> 02:16.560]  The question is, in this nation that boasts of its mission to spread democracy, why aren't there so few folks who vote?
[02:17.040 --> 02:27.240]  Since 1968, the Humphrey-Nixon race, there has not been a presidential election where over 60% of the voting age population participated.
[02:27.540 --> 02:32.640]  In fact, even then, in 68, it was 60.9%.
[02:32.640 --> 02:38.420]  It seems that simple cynicism must play some part in this process.
[02:38.780 --> 02:40.860]  People have little trust in politicians.
[02:41.540 --> 02:47.920]  Some of this is undoubtedly a reaction to the Watergate scandals of the early 70s, but that can't explain it all.
[02:48.480 --> 02:55.980]  There are millions of young folks for whom 1973 is ancient history, and we might as well be referring to the Civil War.
[02:56.200 --> 03:01.780]  For them, as well as many older folks, the prospect of voting is a losing gambit.
[03:01.940 --> 03:06.940]  They feel, with some justification, that there is little or nothing to vote for.
[03:07.140 --> 03:14.980]  In the name of a democracy, many countries empower what one British critic has called an elective dictatorship.
[03:15.540 --> 03:21.020]  For Free Speech Radio News, from Death Row, this is Mumia Abu-Jama.
[03:21.020 --> 03:25.060]  These commentaries are produced by Noel Hanrahan for Prison Radio.
[03:27.480 --> 03:31.320]  These commentaries are produced by Noel Hanrahan for Prison Radio.
[03:33.860 --> 03:35.820]  This is Free Speech Radio News.
[03:35.940 --> 03:37.080]  I'm Deepa Fernandes.
[03:40.850 --> 03:43.870]  And this is radio station WBAI New York.
[03:44.110 --> 03:44.750]  It's 7 o'clock.
[03:44.870 --> 03:46.030]  Time for Off the Hook.
[03:51.250 --> 04:02.370]  The telephone keeps ringing So I ripped it off the wall I cut myself while shaving Now I can't make a call But
[04:07.810 --> 04:12.970]  the best is paid for worst I hope that's understood One diddly, boo!
[04:48.230 --> 04:49.430]  And a good evening to everybody.
[04:49.430 --> 04:51.210]  The program is Off the Hook.
[04:51.310 --> 04:53.770]  Emmanuel Goldstein here with you for the next hour or so.
[04:54.010 --> 04:58.190]  And tonight we have a special fundraising edition of Off the Hook.
[04:58.890 --> 04:59.570]  So stay tuned.
[04:59.690 --> 05:00.650]  It's going to be a lot of fun.
[05:01.530 --> 05:03.410]  We have all kinds of updates and things.
[05:03.490 --> 05:04.330]  We weren't here last week.
[05:04.410 --> 05:05.410]  We won't be here next week.
[05:06.690 --> 05:11.010]  And it's probably a good thing, too, because the country will be under martial law or something.
[05:11.810 --> 05:13.210]  Oh, boy, can you believe it's almost over?
[05:13.370 --> 05:14.670]  The election is almost over.
[05:14.810 --> 05:15.590]  It's not, though.
[05:16.210 --> 05:18.630]  Yeah, but it's getting to that point.
[05:18.790 --> 05:21.050]  That point where, you know, it goes into the courtroom.
[05:21.450 --> 05:22.190]  Right, exactly.
[05:22.390 --> 05:24.630]  There's not going to be anything definite for a while.
[05:24.730 --> 05:26.970]  You think it's not going to be decided by this time next week?
[05:27.350 --> 05:27.510]  No.
[05:27.710 --> 05:29.150]  Well, that'll be fun.
[05:29.290 --> 05:31.810]  That'll be fun to see what plays out this time.
[05:31.910 --> 05:34.210]  Bernie, any thoughts from down there in the city of brotherly love?
[05:34.390 --> 05:39.350]  Well, four years ago today, people were saying, oh, the election will be over very soon now.
[05:40.490 --> 05:41.150]  Yeah, yeah.
[05:41.230 --> 05:42.350]  It didn't turn out that way.
[05:42.550 --> 05:45.410]  I don't think anybody really saw what happened coming.
[05:46.270 --> 05:49.090]  You know, I don't think anybody saw it being that close.
[05:49.090 --> 05:51.970]  I don't think people saw Bush losing the popular vote.
[05:52.130 --> 05:53.930]  Well, it never happened in anybody's lifetime.
[05:53.930 --> 05:56.810]  So, you know, it was just out of people's mindset.
[05:57.030 --> 05:58.850]  Now, people are almost expecting it.
[05:59.190 --> 05:59.690]  Yeah, yeah.
[05:59.710 --> 06:04.330]  So it's going to be interesting, and I hope people get out there and vote and try to make a difference anyway.
[06:04.450 --> 06:10.710]  It may not make much of a difference in the end, but, hell, for one day, it can be a lot of fun for everybody.
[06:12.130 --> 06:15.730]  At least just check out the new voting machines in your precinct, you know?
[06:15.830 --> 06:17.510]  Yeah, that's what I wanted to mention, actually.
[06:17.890 --> 06:21.490]  I wanted to mention that New Jersey...
[06:21.490 --> 06:22.310]  Did you hear about this, Bernie?
[06:22.770 --> 06:27.750]  New Jersey is okaying the use of electronic voting with no paper backup whatsoever.
[06:28.870 --> 06:29.350]  Yep.
[06:29.970 --> 06:31.590]  Well, that's kind of shocking.
[06:31.730 --> 06:32.150]  They just...
[06:32.150 --> 06:35.370]  They said they're not going to hear any more challenges to this.
[06:36.010 --> 06:43.070]  And I wonder just how many more places in the United States are going to go for insecure ways of casting ballots.
[06:43.170 --> 06:47.450]  I heard that a county in Florida has lost 60,000 absentee ballots already.
[06:47.450 --> 06:50.550]  So they're well on the way to screwing up the election one more time.
[06:50.550 --> 06:52.230]  But they're well-practiced in screwing up elections.
[06:52.490 --> 06:56.350]  You know, I want to point out that New Jersey, it's not such a surprising decision.
[06:56.610 --> 06:58.190]  In law, you go by precedent.
[06:58.190 --> 07:03.310]  And these types of machines have been used in parts of New Jersey for up to 10 years.
[07:03.590 --> 07:14.410]  So even though it's stupid, even though it, as you say, has no paper trail, no way to do a recount, you press recount, it just gives you the same numbers it gave you before with nothing to back it up.
[07:15.070 --> 07:15.970]  They've done it before.
[07:15.970 --> 07:21.030]  So essentially what the court is saying, well, we've done it badly for 10 years, but gee, that's the way we do it.
[07:21.090 --> 07:24.410]  You're saying New Jersey has had electronic voting for 10 years and without a paper trail.
[07:24.490 --> 07:30.390]  This is what the judge said when he ruled that these challenges were not valid.
[07:31.190 --> 07:31.550]  Interesting.
[07:31.850 --> 07:31.930]  Yeah.
[07:32.690 --> 07:36.430]  And speaking of judges, this is a little bit off the topic, but it's kind of pertinent to a lot of our listeners.
[07:37.330 --> 07:42.890]  There is a hearing today concerning the critical mass bike ride, which takes place on the last Friday of every month.
[07:43.430 --> 07:47.810]  They actually are trying to forbid the monthly bike ride from taking place.
[07:47.950 --> 07:48.870]  This has been going on for years.
[07:49.190 --> 07:55.410]  But as you may recall during the RNC, there was some conflict when the police decided that anyone riding a bicycle was a criminal.
[07:56.190 --> 07:59.430]  Apparently, they want people riding bicycles to get a parade permit now.
[07:59.710 --> 08:01.070]  If you can believe that.
[08:01.210 --> 08:02.050]  They're out of control.
[08:02.450 --> 08:03.550]  So there was a hearing today.
[08:03.930 --> 08:06.190]  I don't know what the decision was, what the outcome was.
[08:06.290 --> 08:07.870]  They're trying to put a stop to Friday's ride.
[08:08.810 --> 08:13.010]  I'm not a part of critical mass, but I never wanted to be more than now after hearing this.
[08:13.490 --> 08:16.410]  So if anyone has heard what the outcome was, please let us know.
[08:16.550 --> 08:18.770]  And hopefully, we'll have an answer for that pretty soon.
[08:20.330 --> 08:21.270]  When's your next hearing?
[08:21.530 --> 08:24.550]  My next hearing is November, I think the 18th.
[08:25.490 --> 08:28.810]  I know there's a meeting tomorrow for anybody who was arrested.
[08:29.350 --> 08:33.110]  There's a meeting, I believe it's at the Brooklyn Law School tomorrow at 7 o'clock.
[08:33.310 --> 08:38.250]  I don't know exactly where that is, but that's if you're interested in being part of the class action suit against the city.
[08:38.650 --> 08:44.050]  If you have court dates coming up, you might want to come by and get some advice there.
[08:44.910 --> 08:47.670]  So we'll keep people updated as that progresses.
[08:47.950 --> 08:50.910]  But again, mid-November, that's the next time I have to go into court.
[08:50.950 --> 08:53.510]  And I'm sure there'll be many more occasions after that as well.
[08:55.430 --> 08:55.950]  Let's see.
[08:56.030 --> 08:56.910]  Bernie, did you hear about this?
[08:56.950 --> 08:57.950]  This is an amazing story.
[08:59.590 --> 09:13.050]  A television set emitted an international distress signal and got some poor guy to be raided by all kinds of agencies that he never heard of before because they traced the international distress signal to his apartment.
[09:13.270 --> 09:14.190]  What do you know about this?
[09:14.610 --> 09:15.730]  Yeah, that'll happen.
[09:16.230 --> 09:20.250]  Every once in a while, some piece of consumer electronic equipment will go awry.
[09:20.550 --> 09:36.810]  And instead of oscillating at some frequency it's supposed to on its own circuit board, which is usually a very weak signal and doesn't interfere with anything, it'll get out of whack and transmit on the emergency locator transmitter, ELT frequency.
[09:36.810 --> 09:44.190]  I think there's two or three frequencies that was an amazing international agreement between the then-Soviet and the U.S.
[09:44.310 --> 09:44.570]  government.
[09:45.530 --> 09:57.970]  You know, any boat or plane that had one of these things on it, when it was triggered it would be picked up by satellites and alert the authorities to the approximate coordinates of the stranded people.
[09:58.430 --> 10:10.090]  And this guy's flat panel TV was emitting the signal on this frequency and, you know, the Civil Air Patrol and all these other people were homing in on them and only to find out it's a malfunctioning television.
[10:10.310 --> 10:14.790]  It's a bad problem because, you know, it could really interfere with true emergency searches.
[10:14.970 --> 10:17.290]  So they're always tracking and most of these alarms are false.
[10:17.670 --> 10:21.270]  But, so, like 99% of the time they're stamping out false alarms like this.
[10:21.490 --> 10:27.510]  Well, I had no idea, but don't they know when they're homing in on an apartment building that there couldn't be an airplane or a boat in there?
[10:27.690 --> 10:28.790]  I don't know.
[10:29.110 --> 10:37.290]  I mean, generally you have an idea, like there's no news of a crash in the area, but you still have to track it down because it can reduce the sensitivity to legitimate signals.
[10:37.310 --> 10:38.350]  So you've got to stamp them out.
[10:38.510 --> 10:46.410]  So the frequency not to transmit on, just so that we can tell people, is 121.5 megahertz.
[10:46.710 --> 10:46.890]  That's right.
[10:46.950 --> 10:47.310]  Is that correct?
[10:47.530 --> 10:48.130]  Okay, so if you...
[10:48.130 --> 10:49.630]  There's also a UHF frequency that's used.
[10:49.910 --> 10:50.870]  It's 400 some mega...
[10:50.870 --> 10:52.050]  or 300 or 400 some megahertz.
[10:52.070 --> 10:52.330]  Really?
[10:52.410 --> 10:54.090]  Well, this guy was using 121.5.
[10:54.090 --> 10:57.970]  Now, do you have to say something on that frequency or just anything going on that frequency?
[10:57.970 --> 10:58.850]  There's different kinds of beacons.
[10:59.070 --> 11:03.270]  The older ones would just transmit just a carrier, you know, an unmodulated carrier, I believe.
[11:03.450 --> 11:08.470]  And then the later ones would transmit a signal, like a digital signal that could be decoded by...
[11:08.470 --> 11:18.150]  All the new ones now transmit on that frequency or the UHF frequency a digital code that's basically the serial number of the unit.
[11:18.150 --> 11:23.270]  So they'll know, like when they receive this code, it's Emanuel Goldstein's emergency locator transmitter.
[11:23.270 --> 11:29.210]  So not only will they know it's a signal, they'll know that it's your transmitter that's transmitting, which is good.
[11:30.290 --> 11:31.090]  So, um...
[11:31.090 --> 11:32.990]  But, you know, they have to play it safe.
[11:33.050 --> 11:37.190]  It could have been an older ELT transmitter and they were just checking it out.
[11:38.770 --> 11:39.490]  Well, uh...
[11:39.490 --> 11:41.830]  The guy's not in any trouble unless he turns his TV set back on.
[11:42.250 --> 11:47.550]  Well, actually, yeah, they told him to shut it off, but then the manufacturer, I think it was Toshiba, replaced it for him.
[11:47.670 --> 11:48.330]  Well, how nice of them.
[11:48.830 --> 11:49.190]  Okay.
[11:49.830 --> 11:52.550]  Well, hopefully it'll transmit on the proper frequencies from now on.
[11:53.890 --> 11:55.410]  We got some interesting...
[11:55.410 --> 11:56.350]  We always do, of course.
[11:58.190 --> 12:03.270]  This person writes in with a story, actually, that I knew about and a few people knew about it as well.
[12:03.310 --> 12:03.950]  I think it's old news.
[12:03.950 --> 12:06.530]  But it is very interesting on the eve of election day.
[12:06.670 --> 12:08.690]  I think we ought to pay a little bit of attention to it.
[12:08.870 --> 12:16.330]  But the website, www.georgewbush.com I'm not sure which internet that's on, but it's on one of them.
[12:17.290 --> 12:20.890]  If you try and connect to it from overseas, you can't.
[12:21.090 --> 12:21.890]  You know about this?
[12:22.030 --> 12:23.090]  This is new, by the way.
[12:23.270 --> 12:23.690]  Is it new?
[12:23.790 --> 12:24.130]  It's new.
[12:25.590 --> 12:29.370]  Apparently, foreigners aren't allowed to know why George Bush wants to be re-elected.
[12:29.570 --> 12:29.790]  Really?
[12:30.250 --> 12:31.910]  I mean, it's been out for a few days.
[12:32.130 --> 12:33.450]  Yeah, since Monday-ish.
[12:33.510 --> 12:33.650]  Okay.
[12:33.650 --> 12:34.350]  Well, that's old.
[12:34.590 --> 12:34.830]  Okay.
[12:34.910 --> 12:36.830]  That's yesterday's news.
[12:36.970 --> 12:49.370]  But the point is, if you go to a website or a machine overseas, if you can get access somehow, I'm not sure how the average user could do that if they don't have an actual account on a machine someplace.
[12:50.010 --> 12:53.670]  But if you try, I went over to Access for All and I tried it from Holland.
[12:54.030 --> 12:56.750]  And sure enough, using links, it said forbidden.
[12:57.370 --> 12:59.050]  You are not allowed to access this server.
[12:59.210 --> 13:00.410]  And I tried it from the United States.
[13:00.410 --> 13:01.150]  It went right through.
[13:03.290 --> 13:06.110]  It boggles the imagination why George W.
[13:06.310 --> 13:09.070]  Bush and his people wouldn't want anyone from overseas.
[13:09.330 --> 13:11.090]  Jim, you have a hint as to why this might be?
[13:11.290 --> 13:20.630]  Yeah, I was just thinking it may be some obscure law about disseminating propaganda along the lines of Radio Free Europe and all that sort of thing.
[13:20.630 --> 13:22.170]  Yeah, but that's the opposite.
[13:22.470 --> 13:23.050]  No, no, no.
[13:23.050 --> 13:25.050]  You can't disseminate propaganda to the American people.
[13:25.190 --> 13:27.550]  Like Voice of America, you can't transmit to the American people.
[13:27.670 --> 13:29.130]  But overseas, you certainly can.
[13:29.590 --> 13:32.190]  I'm not so sure if you can...
[13:32.770 --> 13:34.550]  This does seem fairly reasonable.
[13:34.830 --> 13:35.050]  Jim...
[13:35.050 --> 13:38.210]  Where does this administration be concerned about limiting propaganda?
[13:38.530 --> 13:40.610]  Jim, your attempts to defend the president are...
[13:40.610 --> 13:42.130]  I'm not attempting to defend the president.
[13:42.130 --> 13:44.850]  I'm coming up with what I think is a fairly reasonable explanation.
[13:44.910 --> 13:46.290]  But then how do you explain the Voice of America?
[13:46.290 --> 13:52.690]  Because what they say is permitted by the laws setting them up.
[13:52.790 --> 13:56.390]  In other words, this is pure political content.
[13:56.690 --> 14:01.430]  So are you saying John Kerry is breaking the law by transmitting his website overseas?
[14:01.730 --> 14:05.570]  No, I think that probably the guys that work for the president are being too conservative.
[14:05.870 --> 14:06.770]  I think...
[14:06.770 --> 14:08.570]  Did you actually check Kerry's site?
[14:08.710 --> 14:09.530]  Can you get it overseas?
[14:09.950 --> 14:13.270]  Well, I imagine somebody would have mentioned if that was also effective.
[14:13.490 --> 14:14.070]  I agree with you there.
[14:14.490 --> 14:16.970]  But it seems very bizarre.
[14:17.510 --> 14:19.550]  I know there was an article in the Register about this as well.
[14:19.990 --> 14:23.130]  Is it that the server rejects the request or can you just not get to it at all?
[14:23.270 --> 14:25.390]  It's a forbidden message that comes from the server.
[14:25.530 --> 14:26.690]  So the server is actually blocking it.
[14:26.850 --> 14:30.110]  I'm not exactly sure what they use as criteria to determine that you're overseas.
[14:30.530 --> 14:31.870]  I mean, because if the packets just...
[14:31.870 --> 14:42.710]  Well, I mean, maybe the subnet you're on, but if the packets just couldn't get through, then I would think maybe, you know, it's to prevent maybe foreign DDoSes and they don't want it, especially in this election time.
[14:42.890 --> 14:45.590]  Yeah, but you could still attack the server if that's what they're worried about.
[14:45.590 --> 14:47.170]  You just can't read the content.
[14:47.370 --> 14:52.290]  But now, what can we do to ensure that the people of Europe are not deprived of George W.
[14:52.450 --> 14:54.830]  Bush-isms which appear on the website?
[14:55.390 --> 14:59.370]  Can we somehow have a mirror site or redirect people someplace?
[14:59.370 --> 15:00.050]  What can we do?
[15:00.250 --> 15:01.450]  Well, we could set up...
[15:01.450 --> 15:03.730]  I'm not setting up a mirror for Bush.
[15:03.950 --> 15:08.690]  Well, you know, he obviously doesn't want the information to get out, so you'd be working against him.
[15:08.750 --> 15:10.030]  So you should be okay with that.
[15:10.170 --> 15:11.190]  There's no information there.
[15:11.290 --> 15:11.670]  I don't know.
[15:11.750 --> 15:14.450]  There's something there that he doesn't want the people overseas to see.
[15:14.450 --> 15:19.290]  Actually, if you set up a mirror, you wouldn't be able to see a site because George W.
[15:19.370 --> 15:20.230]  Bush is a vampire.
[15:21.250 --> 15:21.870]  Yeah, yeah.
[15:21.890 --> 15:22.330]  That's funny.
[15:23.210 --> 15:31.730]  Actually, there's an easy technical solution which is you go to a translation page like Babelfish and attempt to translate the George Bush page.
[15:31.750 --> 15:34.290]  And because Babelfish is coming from the United States, it'll get right through.
[15:34.510 --> 15:34.590]  Yeah.
[15:34.910 --> 15:36.350]  But you're translating from what to what?
[15:36.590 --> 15:39.950]  English to English if you read English, English to whatever foreign language you read.
[15:40.030 --> 15:40.370]  Does that work?
[15:40.490 --> 15:41.470]  Translating English to English?
[15:41.470 --> 15:42.010]  That goes through?
[15:43.770 --> 15:45.050]  Well, yeah, I used to.
[15:46.010 --> 15:46.510]  Normally, I think...
[15:46.510 --> 15:47.330]  Well, if you translate George W.
[15:47.330 --> 15:49.850]  Bush to English, you might actually get something that makes sense, but...
[15:49.850 --> 15:56.610]  You translate something that definitely isn't, like Chinese to English, and it reads the English as English and says there's no Chinese there.
[15:56.930 --> 16:00.370]  There's hacker language also, supposedly, and the Google language translation.
[16:01.110 --> 16:01.270]  Yeah.
[16:01.290 --> 16:04.390]  It's really lame, but it would be interesting to see how that translates.
[16:05.710 --> 16:06.170]  Okay.
[16:06.510 --> 16:11.410]  We have some updates on the whole MetroCard project we talked about last time.
[16:12.650 --> 16:14.490]  And Redbird is here again.
[16:15.770 --> 16:16.230]  It's...
[16:16.230 --> 16:17.450]  You know, I wrote a Redbird today.
[16:17.590 --> 16:19.690]  Redbird is the old subway train.
[16:19.970 --> 16:21.610]  After this, we should mention that.
[16:21.670 --> 16:22.550]  I have a little bit on that.
[16:22.590 --> 16:23.110]  You have a little bit on that?
[16:23.110 --> 16:28.150]  Because today, this day right now, is the 100th anniversary of the New York City subway system.
[16:28.270 --> 16:28.790]  Yes, it is.
[16:28.870 --> 16:29.930]  Which is pretty amazing.
[16:30.990 --> 16:33.710]  So we, Redbird, we got a bunch of replies.
[16:33.790 --> 16:35.810]  Well, not really a bunch, a couple, a few, a handful.
[16:36.350 --> 16:37.450]  And they were all from Chicago.
[16:37.690 --> 16:38.830]  We didn't get anybody from New York City.
[16:38.970 --> 16:39.970]  So I don't know what's going on.
[16:40.070 --> 16:42.270]  One person gave me an old blue MetroCard.
[16:42.490 --> 16:42.990]  Oh, look at that.
[16:43.050 --> 16:43.830]  An old blue MetroCard.
[16:43.990 --> 16:44.770]  Hold that up to the microphone.
[16:44.910 --> 16:46.790]  That's what they used to look like.
[16:46.930 --> 16:47.130]  Wow.
[16:47.730 --> 16:47.990]  Okay.
[16:49.050 --> 16:52.930]  Those who can't see because they're not in the studio, it looks like a MetroCard, but it's blue.
[16:53.110 --> 16:55.090]  With the yellow MetroCard.
[16:55.250 --> 16:57.130]  Yeah, and the same magnetic strip.
[16:57.190 --> 17:01.890]  What we're looking for, we're looking for all different kinds of cards and they can be expired.
[17:02.010 --> 17:02.530]  That's not a problem.
[17:02.710 --> 17:05.270]  Student cards, senior cards, handicapped cards, staff cards.
[17:05.790 --> 17:07.850]  It's to help understand how the system works.
[17:07.930 --> 17:09.690]  Now, we got some interesting things from Chicago.
[17:09.990 --> 17:11.010]  Redbird, what did we get from Chicago?
[17:11.150 --> 17:18.190]  Looks like, let's see, we got a reduced fare card, we got a regular card, and we got a promise of a U-pass.
[17:18.730 --> 17:19.550]  What's a U-pass?
[17:19.750 --> 17:25.090]  I believe is, let's see, those should be the student cards, if I'm correct.
[17:25.190 --> 17:26.170]  University pass, maybe.
[17:26.330 --> 17:26.470]  Right.
[17:26.810 --> 17:27.090]  Okay.
[17:27.870 --> 17:37.950]  Now, by analyzing these cards, by reading the data that's on them, we'll be able to figure out how the system works and see if it's a secure system, see if it's a good system, see if we can design a better system.
[17:38.810 --> 17:44.790]  And if you have something to send us, any kind of Metro card that, well, we don't want, what don't we want?
[17:44.910 --> 17:46.870]  We don't want standard, regular cards.
[17:47.010 --> 17:49.450]  We don't want unlimited cards that you could find anywhere.
[17:49.770 --> 17:50.850]  We have tons of them.
[17:51.030 --> 17:51.230]  Yeah.
[17:51.230 --> 17:52.630]  People don't know how to dispose of.
[17:52.630 --> 17:53.370]  Pick them up off the subway.
[17:53.650 --> 17:54.910]  Yeah, that's not a problem.
[17:55.270 --> 17:56.610]  But we do want student cards.
[17:56.750 --> 18:01.810]  We want any type of reduced fare card, you know, senior, and anything along those lines.
[18:01.970 --> 18:08.270]  We want test cards, and, you know, I don't think we're going to get any of those, but employee cards, if possible.
[18:08.470 --> 18:11.230]  You're a police officer, and you get a special card to get into the system that way?
[18:11.430 --> 18:11.790]  Anything.
[18:11.950 --> 18:12.910]  Anything that's not standard.
[18:13.090 --> 18:15.410]  It might help me regain some respect for you guys.
[18:16.090 --> 18:18.570]  Jim, do you still have your MTA card?
[18:18.570 --> 18:21.250]  No, that was confiscated when I had my legal difficulties.
[18:21.470 --> 18:22.410]  Ah, what a shame.
[18:23.010 --> 18:23.330]  Yeah.
[18:23.510 --> 18:31.030]  Well, if there's any MTA employees out there who are not yet in trouble, please feel free to seal your fate by sending this to us.
[18:31.150 --> 18:32.990]  Our address is 2600 P.O.
[18:33.050 --> 18:35.850]  Box 99, Middle Island, New York, 1195.
[18:36.090 --> 18:36.770]  Type 3.
[18:37.350 --> 18:43.910]  And just send it over to us, and we'll have some interesting information to reveal, hopefully, because of that.
[18:45.130 --> 18:48.950]  Okay, so we got some interesting Chicago things.
[18:49.030 --> 18:52.830]  We have a bunch of people writing in explaining how the system works.
[18:53.930 --> 18:56.090]  They call it the transit card in Chicago.
[18:56.330 --> 18:58.650]  The Chicago card is the smart card version.
[18:58.810 --> 18:59.690]  It's in wide use.
[19:00.030 --> 19:03.550]  You can go online and see where you get on and off the system.
[19:05.150 --> 19:11.090]  And this guy says, I have a friend that is stupid enough to use this, and I was appalled when I found out.
[19:11.770 --> 19:19.150]  The CTA, the Chicago Transit Authority, employees use the Chicago card for personal use, and then employees can be tracked.
[19:19.410 --> 19:21.570]  Employees on duty use diagnostic cards.
[19:22.710 --> 19:26.350]  The U-pass holds the person's name, semester it's active, and school.
[19:26.610 --> 19:30.410]  And at the CTA, when checking if the card is damaged, they run it through a reader.
[19:30.650 --> 19:32.890]  It'll generate all the student's info, name, address, etc.
[19:33.450 --> 19:36.490]  I'm not sure if it was held in an external database or on the card itself.
[19:36.490 --> 19:38.390]  That's one of the things we're going to find out.
[19:38.550 --> 19:41.170]  So thanks, Eric, for sending that information in.
[19:41.250 --> 19:45.150]  Thanks to everybody else who sent us either email or actual cards.
[19:45.150 --> 19:46.730]  They're very handy to have.
[19:47.630 --> 19:47.770]  Yeah.
[19:48.530 --> 19:53.890]  Speaking of the New York City subways, as Emanuel mentioned, it's the 100th anniversary today.
[19:54.110 --> 19:57.430]  October 27th, 1904 was the first day of operation.
[19:57.910 --> 20:08.070]  And for those of you in the New York City area, you have a great opportunity today, but it's over, tomorrow and Friday to ride old trains.
[20:08.070 --> 20:14.310]  They're going to be in passenger service in Manhattan and Queens and Brooklyn.
[20:15.270 --> 20:19.230]  So if you are riding the trains between 10 a.m.
[20:19.250 --> 20:19.950]  and 3 p.m.
[20:19.950 --> 20:22.710]  tomorrow, here's what you can look forward to.
[20:23.310 --> 20:32.230]  On the W line between Dittmar's Boulevard and Canal Street, Manhattan, Dittmar's Boulevard is in Queens, they're going to be running old 1 and 9 trains, IRT trains.
[20:32.550 --> 20:33.270]  Stop, stop, stop.
[20:33.390 --> 20:33.650]  Hold on.
[20:33.710 --> 20:34.650]  What do you mean old 1 and 9?
[20:34.690 --> 20:35.390]  9 is new.
[20:35.550 --> 20:36.630]  There's no old 9 trains.
[20:36.850 --> 20:39.390]  Okay, but I'm just reading this off their website.
[20:39.590 --> 20:40.490]  Well, don't read what they say.
[20:40.570 --> 20:42.170]  You've got to process it through your brain first.
[20:51.690 --> 21:04.850]  And also between Astoria Boulevard, Queens and Canal Street, Manhattan, also on the W line, they're running what's known as the 1904 Brooklyn Unified Elevated Cars.
[21:05.090 --> 21:06.410]  These are old wooden cars.
[21:07.010 --> 21:11.110]  They failed miserably in the Malbone Street disaster for you trivia freaks.
[21:12.410 --> 21:13.570]  That's on Friday, right?
[21:13.850 --> 21:15.190]  No, this is still Thursday.
[21:15.790 --> 21:25.710]  And they're going to have Centennial Specials, which is essentially every other sort of train they have, running on the one line between 242nd Street and Times Square.
[21:25.710 --> 21:27.210]  That's Upper Manhattan and the Bronx.
[21:27.890 --> 21:28.450]  Okay.
[21:28.670 --> 21:40.030]  On Friday, they're running the same on the W between Dittmar's and Canal Street to the old IRT trains, the Brooklyn United Elevated Cars, Astoria Boulevard to Canal Street.
[21:40.230 --> 21:49.010]  And they're running the Centennial Special, the various other trains on the A-Line between Penn Station, 34th Street and Utica Avenue, Brooklyn.
[21:49.650 --> 21:56.190]  So between the hours of 10 and 3 tomorrow, you have the opportunity to ride trains that you never would have seen before.
[21:56.590 --> 21:57.610]  Now, today...
[21:57.610 --> 21:57.830]  Go ahead.
[21:57.970 --> 22:00.630]  Yeah, go to mta.info for more information.
[22:00.810 --> 22:02.150]  Click on Subway Centennial.
[22:02.350 --> 22:07.330]  They have all sorts of things, all sorts of exhibits, various museums, libraries, all around town.
[22:08.430 --> 22:14.570]  Today, there was a special train running on the Grand Central Times Square shuttle.
[22:14.850 --> 22:17.290]  I don't think they'll be doing that again tomorrow or Friday.
[22:17.430 --> 22:19.410]  I wish they would because it's really pretty cool.
[22:20.150 --> 22:21.510]  Red Hecht and I actually rode this one.
[22:22.350 --> 22:23.590]  It's a three-car train.
[22:23.790 --> 22:26.750]  The first car is one of those old World's Fair blue and white cars.
[22:26.970 --> 22:29.250]  The second one was, I think, from 1950.
[22:29.250 --> 22:31.030]  And the third one was from the 40s.
[22:31.190 --> 22:31.410]  Yeah.
[22:31.910 --> 22:32.350]  And...
[22:32.350 --> 22:33.530]  It had the fans inside and everything.
[22:33.610 --> 22:35.590]  It had little fans, little like, you know...
[22:35.590 --> 22:36.090]  Tweed seats.
[22:36.230 --> 22:36.950]  Tweed seats.
[22:37.650 --> 22:41.090]  And the funny thing is, most people riding it don't really care.
[22:41.750 --> 22:44.930]  They just want to get to their commuter train or whatever.
[22:44.990 --> 22:48.350]  And it's really funny to hear them complaining about, you know, what's with this?
[22:48.750 --> 22:50.310]  And they don't appreciate it at all.
[22:50.370 --> 22:56.770]  But I really have to commend the MTA for caring enough to do this and to show people something, some history because that's really, really important.
[22:56.770 --> 22:59.350]  And I'm glad they didn't dump all the trains into the ocean.
[22:59.590 --> 23:03.450]  I'm glad there are some still running around and people can enjoy them and appreciate them.
[23:03.590 --> 23:05.410]  They even have the old advertisements up.
[23:05.630 --> 23:05.650]  Yeah.
[23:05.730 --> 23:08.350]  Like, filtered cigarettes are better for your health.
[23:08.550 --> 23:09.490]  I thought that was...
[23:10.190 --> 23:12.290]  And phone numbers that still have letters in them.
[23:12.470 --> 23:12.630]  Yeah.
[23:13.130 --> 23:13.990]  It's just amazing.
[23:14.170 --> 23:17.410]  And if you get a chance, if you get a chance, it's definitely worth checking out.
[23:18.590 --> 23:24.130]  And of course, if you can't do that, there's always the Transit Museum over in Brooklyn, which you can learn all kinds of interesting things.
[23:24.210 --> 23:26.130]  And they have rides of old trains occasionally too.
[23:28.030 --> 23:28.770]  All right.
[23:28.890 --> 23:30.210]  So there's that bit of information.
[23:30.430 --> 23:37.330]  I want to also issue an appeal for more relay servers.
[23:37.470 --> 23:38.470]  This comes from Junts.
[23:38.930 --> 23:42.970]  We need more streaming resources for the WBAI stream.
[23:44.270 --> 23:48.870]  Basically, we have a capacity of 250 listeners right now.
[23:49.290 --> 23:51.450]  That's during the normal day.
[23:51.810 --> 23:55.370]  And we have additional coverage for Off the Hook.
[23:55.410 --> 23:57.010]  So we have more people for this radio show.
[23:57.110 --> 24:01.690]  But for the radio station itself, we do need help on streaming resources.
[24:02.330 --> 24:09.550]  So if you can help in any way, basically what you need is you need a pipe to the internet, a DSL cable connection.
[24:09.670 --> 24:10.550]  That's not enough.
[24:10.770 --> 24:15.450]  You need something like, you know, a T1 or something, an OC3, whatever.
[24:16.630 --> 24:18.650]  Email Junts at 2600.com.
[24:18.650 --> 24:26.470]  That's J-U-I-N-T-Z at 2600.com if you can help in any way or if you have any questions as to whether or not you think you might be able to help.
[24:28.370 --> 24:28.890]  All right.
[24:30.830 --> 24:31.510]  Let's see.
[24:31.590 --> 24:32.690]  What else do we have here?
[24:33.930 --> 24:40.710]  We have some interesting information about the IMC, about the mystery raid that took place.
[24:40.830 --> 24:42.530]  What do you have, Mike?
[24:43.890 --> 24:46.110]  Well, I wouldn't say we have information.
[24:46.110 --> 24:49.170]  We have more lack of information.
[24:49.770 --> 24:54.510]  The update is apparently just before the show last time.
[24:54.750 --> 24:59.090]  The servers were actually returned to Rackspace and to IndieMedia.
[25:01.590 --> 25:04.110]  But no one's saying who took them.
[25:04.270 --> 25:08.250]  In fact, everyone under the sun is denying having taken them.
[25:08.350 --> 25:14.450]  The EFF just filed papers against the feds for having a secret order.
[25:14.730 --> 25:21.030]  The papers basically say we don't know who filed this subpoena but please find out and give us a copy.
[25:21.230 --> 25:21.830]  You can do that?
[25:21.930 --> 25:24.970]  You can just file something against an unknown party?
[25:25.230 --> 25:30.930]  Well, if you know that the party is the government, I guess you don't have to know which part of the government it is.
[25:31.050 --> 25:31.370]  I don't know.
[25:31.690 --> 25:31.890]  Okay.
[25:32.030 --> 25:35.310]  Well, there's more information on EFF.org about that.
[25:36.270 --> 25:47.210]  But there's this kind of interesting tradition in the UK where members of parliament are allowed to ask questions of the cabinet members.
[25:48.470 --> 25:59.090]  So a couple MPs asked the minister for the UK home office, did you have anything to do with the seizing of the Indymedia server?
[25:59.310 --> 26:00.690]  And they all denied it.
[26:00.930 --> 26:03.850]  And then the FBI denied that it was involved.
[26:04.170 --> 26:08.470]  So there's really a lot of denial going on and it's awfully suspicious.
[26:08.470 --> 26:11.130]  One thing you can't deny is the fact that it happened.
[26:11.190 --> 26:12.630]  They actually took the sites.
[26:13.190 --> 26:17.430]  And it's a scary thing when they can just do that, get away with it, and you don't even know who did it.
[26:17.910 --> 26:18.650]  Very scary.
[26:19.210 --> 26:22.670]  Okay, we have an important business to take care of here.
[26:22.830 --> 26:26.310]  We are running a fundraiser for the radio station.
[26:26.310 --> 26:29.410]  We're only doing this one night on this radio program.
[26:38.470 --> 26:39.890]  We have several things.
[26:40.310 --> 26:43.530]  The number to call is 212-209-2950.
[26:43.710 --> 26:47.150]  That's if you don't care and you just want to give a lot of money to us, fine.
[26:47.330 --> 26:49.490]  Or, you know, even a little money, everything helps.
[26:49.590 --> 26:52.890]  But we have some incentives if you need to be pushed a little further.
[26:53.490 --> 27:03.750]  First of all, everybody who pledges $25 or above, everybody, without regard to where you're calling from or who you are or anything like that, everybody will get an Off the Hook T-shirt.
[27:04.670 --> 27:08.090]  And those are the special T-shirts that only people who listen to Off the Hook can get.
[27:08.270 --> 27:09.730]  We don't sell them anyplace else.
[27:10.450 --> 27:12.670]  We only make them available here at the radio station.
[27:12.970 --> 27:16.090]  So anyone who pledges $25 or more will get that.
[27:16.210 --> 27:18.070]  That's in addition to anything else you may get.
[27:18.590 --> 27:20.290]  An Off the Hook T-shirt, it's really cool.
[27:20.510 --> 27:24.950]  It has Off the Hook on the front and I think it has the time it's on on the back.
[27:25.090 --> 27:25.630]  Is that how it works?
[27:25.830 --> 27:26.990]  It's all on the front.
[27:27.270 --> 27:28.190]  Also the station.
[27:28.370 --> 27:28.930]  And the station.
[27:29.110 --> 27:30.210]  Which is WBAI, of course.
[27:30.310 --> 27:30.690]  That's right.
[27:30.970 --> 27:38.110]  Now, if you pledge $75, in addition to that, you'll get one of our exclusive 2600 hooded sweatshirts.
[27:38.610 --> 27:41.190]  Now, I believe Redhack, you have one.
[27:41.330 --> 27:41.830]  You have it with you?
[27:42.010 --> 27:42.930]  I'll hold it up to the microphone.
[27:42.990 --> 27:45.330]  Hold up to the microphone, yeah, because this thing is really, really cool.
[27:45.530 --> 27:46.030]  Oh, look at that.
[27:46.450 --> 27:46.870]  Look at that.
[27:47.090 --> 27:47.710]  You look...
[27:48.450 --> 27:55.770]  Well, I don't want to say you look dangerous, but you know how older people think that younger people look dangerous when they wear hooded materials.
[27:55.950 --> 27:59.570]  Well, this definitely would make them feel that way.
[27:59.790 --> 28:05.050]  But no, it's actually, it's warm, it's stylish, and it says 2600 on it.
[28:05.130 --> 28:06.190]  It's better than most of my jackets.
[28:06.330 --> 28:08.530]  Hold it up again so the audience can listen to the quality.
[28:08.850 --> 28:13.610]  I think we've seen enough here, but that's for a $75 pledge.
[28:13.750 --> 28:21.430]  You'll get the Off the Hook t-shirt and the 2600 hooded sweatshirt, which has become a really big hit in the hacker world.
[28:21.490 --> 28:23.010]  I can even wear the sweatshirt in the rain.
[28:23.230 --> 28:26.810]  I mean, not like pouring rain, but it's fine if it's raining a little bit.
[28:26.830 --> 28:28.470]  I like the quasi official logo on the back.
[28:29.450 --> 28:31.850]  Which is, yeah, that's the government seal.
[28:32.730 --> 28:34.470]  That's a really cool government seal.
[28:34.530 --> 28:36.010]  Well, it looks like a government seal.
[28:36.150 --> 28:38.310]  It just happens to say 2600 to hack a quarterly in there.
[28:39.570 --> 28:44.190]  But, Bernie, I believe there was a time when you were you wearing the hooded sweatshirt or were you wearing the shirt?
[28:44.930 --> 28:47.750]  I was wearing when we were looking for the pirate radio station.
[28:47.930 --> 28:49.610]  Yeah, I guess we can say we were doing that.
[28:49.830 --> 28:52.290]  I wasn't actually wearing it on purpose to intimidate anyone.
[28:52.410 --> 28:53.770]  No, we were looking for a pirate radio station.
[28:53.890 --> 28:59.910]  We found it in Queens, and we just wanted to ask them to not use a particular frequency because it belonged to friends of ours.
[29:01.730 --> 29:09.170]  Well, Bernie, you walked into the place, which turned out to be a church, actually, and I realized that you were wearing this government seal on you.
[29:09.690 --> 29:11.750]  And, yeah, you certainly did look like...
[29:11.750 --> 29:30.830]  Well, it was a church with a primarily Latino congregation, so most of the people there weren't native English speakers, apparently, and they might have been concerned with sort of what looked like a federal government, a big federal government logo seal on the back of my sweatshirt because,
[29:31.030 --> 29:40.630]  well, I don't know, it just generally that group of people has been harassed by federal officials before for various reasons.
[29:40.850 --> 29:45.610]  So, you know, in retrospect, it was not a good idea to wear a shirt that day.
[29:45.930 --> 29:51.130]  So there are certain circumstances where maybe it's not a good idea to wear the 2,600 hooded sweatshirt.
[29:51.210 --> 29:51.990]  This might be one of them.
[29:52.410 --> 29:57.470]  212-209-2950 for a pledge of $75, you'll get that, and the off-the-hook t-shirt.
[29:57.470 --> 30:07.530]  Now, if you want to pledge $125, we have something even newer than all of this, and Mike, perhaps you'd like to enlighten us.
[30:08.010 --> 30:28.870]  Well, the Fifth Hope Conference took place, as folks know, this summer, and all the panels were videotaped, and if you pledge $125, you will get VCDs, which is a CD that can be played in your DVD player or on your computer, of all the panels, which is many,
[30:29.030 --> 30:29.930]  many, many panels.
[30:30.110 --> 30:31.570]  That's a lot of VCDs, isn't it?
[30:31.630 --> 30:41.610]  It's a... I have the set from H2K2, and it's a very heavy box full of CDs, and there were even more panels at the Fifth Hope.
[30:41.810 --> 30:54.950]  Now, these VCDs will play in any computer, well, any computer made in the last 10 years, and they'll also play on most DVD players, if not most... many more of them.
[30:55.110 --> 30:57.770]  I think just about every DVD player I've ever seen plays VCDs as well.
[30:58.870 --> 31:01.030]  So, why VCDs and not DVDs?
[31:01.070 --> 31:01.790]  What's the difference?
[31:02.970 --> 31:08.110]  The quality is slightly off if we were, you know, showing action films or something.
[31:08.330 --> 31:16.290]  But for what we're showing you, which is, you know, people talking and maybe showing slides or something, it's more than watchable.
[31:16.770 --> 31:17.170]  Okay.
[31:17.390 --> 31:18.790]  And that's for a pledge of $125.
[31:18.870 --> 31:24.010]  So you have three basic pledge levels there, and we have no basic phone calls.
[31:24.230 --> 31:38.570]  So we need to, unless that machine isn't working, 212-209-2950, we've told you everything that we have here, and we need to see a response from our listeners to know that you're out there and that you care and that it matters to you.
[31:39.070 --> 31:42.590]  We're going to play an excerpt from one of the panels.
[31:42.810 --> 31:47.050]  Now, Mike, maybe you could sort of tell us what we're about to listen to here.
[31:47.050 --> 31:47.650]  Sure.
[31:47.790 --> 31:55.630]  This is from the panel on retro computing, which is basically using or talking about kind of old technology.
[31:55.990 --> 32:06.790]  And we have Steve Wozniak, who is, of course, the co-founder of Apple Computer Company, talking about card punches and other things.
[32:06.890 --> 32:09.210]  Now, this is not the keynote, which Steve Wozniak gave.
[32:09.310 --> 32:15.610]  This is not the keynote, which he gave, which was about two hours long and also wonderful, but this is from the retro computing panel.
[32:15.610 --> 32:19.710]  Okay, now, just to advise our listeners that you won't be getting the video on this.
[32:19.850 --> 32:23.430]  You will just be getting the audio because we're playing it over the radio.
[32:23.750 --> 32:25.070]  But the video exists.
[32:25.190 --> 32:33.910]  And if you pledge 212-209-2950, in addition to this audio and many more pieces of audio, you will get the video as well.
[32:34.030 --> 32:34.530]  Let's take a listen.
[32:36.010 --> 32:37.670]  Boy, I remember one good story.
[32:37.790 --> 32:50.710]  When it was finals time, everybody that used the computer in the University of Colorado, the 6400, CDC 6400, everybody had to use, I think it was the Model 25 card punch to type in your programs.
[32:50.930 --> 32:52.610]  And it would punch the holes on the cards for you.
[32:52.710 --> 32:53.690]  And that was just part of life.
[32:53.890 --> 32:59.990]  At finals time, you'd show up and there was a huge waiting line of people to get on the card punches.
[33:00.110 --> 33:00.910]  They were all in use.
[33:01.250 --> 33:02.390]  Every one of them was in use.
[33:02.470 --> 33:08.290]  And you'd have to wait an hour, an hour and a half sometimes just to get your turn to type one iteration of your program.
[33:09.130 --> 33:13.250]  So, well, I had, I was really a touch typist on these card punches.
[33:13.510 --> 33:19.870]  And you'd hit the asterisk key and something, or there was a little key you had to hit with your left little finger next to the space bar.
[33:20.050 --> 33:24.510]  And other keys, like the D key and the E key, and you'd get parentheses and percent signs.
[33:24.710 --> 33:26.770]  Well, I did it all by touch instead of look.
[33:27.170 --> 33:32.830]  So what I did was I went over, nobody was using these older Model 19 card punches.
[33:33.130 --> 33:41.970]  I went over to them and discovered that if I punched by touch without looking at the keyboard, it typed the wrong characters, but it punched the right holes.
[33:42.890 --> 33:44.170]  So I never had to wait.
[33:44.330 --> 33:46.070]  So that was one of my little gimmicks in college.
[33:46.810 --> 33:56.690]  And, you know, there were, I think there were like millions of people, well, I think millions, but let's say hundreds of thousands maybe, a million people that were like myself hoping for the day we could own our own computers.
[33:56.730 --> 34:07.030]  Because when we went to work for a company, we would, you know, go up to, write a program on paper and turn it over, go up to a window, give it to some, usually a gal, typing away on a key punch.
[34:07.190 --> 34:08.910]  She turns it into a deck of cards.
[34:09.150 --> 34:14.510]  We'd pick up the deck of cards from her and go over to a window and submit them to the computer department.
[34:14.690 --> 34:18.710]  And they would run our program and we'd show up later and get a printout with our name on it.
[34:19.050 --> 34:21.810]  And it was like, you're using this company's computer.
[34:21.930 --> 34:24.670]  It was so far above us in value.
[34:24.810 --> 34:26.650]  It was like the technology over the human.
[34:26.990 --> 34:29.210]  The technology was more costly and more important.
[34:29.510 --> 34:39.090]  But we, somehow, there were a lot of us that just wished we had our own computer and we were the owner of it and could decide what it was used for and when and do quick jobs, whatever we felt like.
[34:39.330 --> 34:40.750]  And we'd been sitting around.
[34:40.990 --> 34:44.650]  And so the homebrew computer started up and the M-Sci computer had been introduced.
[34:44.870 --> 34:54.750]  And it told a lot of us that understood ones and zeros and logic and gates and chips that this stuff we understood was all of a sudden affordable.
[34:55.010 --> 34:57.750]  You could buy the M-Sci computer for $400.
[34:58.310 --> 34:59.810]  It looked like an airplane cockpit.
[34:59.810 --> 35:03.470]  You kind of had to study computers to know how to build it and use it.
[35:03.650 --> 35:05.290]  So it was for hobbyists.
[35:05.490 --> 35:07.610]  It wasn't for the average Joe in the street.
[35:08.290 --> 35:10.230]  But it was affordable because it was $400.
[35:12.030 --> 35:12.430]  Okay.
[35:12.630 --> 35:17.530]  And that's Steve Wozniak at the Retro Computing Panel at the Fifth Hope.
[35:19.450 --> 35:20.010]  Pretty cool.
[35:20.170 --> 35:20.670]  Pretty cool stuff.
[35:20.790 --> 35:24.870]  Now, Mike, you're looking at all these videos and there's a lot of variety there, right?
[35:25.110 --> 35:25.370]  Yeah.
[35:25.450 --> 35:34.370]  We have all these people who do, like, these cool things that you never would hear about and they come to the Hope Conference and talk about them.
[35:34.470 --> 35:38.270]  Now, even if you were lucky enough to be at the Hope Conference, there's no way you could have seen everything.
[35:38.570 --> 35:40.610]  And this is everything.
[35:40.850 --> 35:44.290]  These are all the panels that took place in the primary tracks.
[35:44.390 --> 35:46.170]  We had a secondary track that wasn't filmed.
[35:46.350 --> 35:48.150]  A third track that wasn't filmed.
[35:48.310 --> 35:50.170]  But the main two tracks were.
[35:50.450 --> 35:52.170]  And so we have all kinds of video.
[35:53.070 --> 35:56.290]  So those are our premiums that we have for tonight.
[35:56.290 --> 35:58.250]  And we're only on for another 25 minutes.
[35:58.390 --> 36:00.130]  212-209-2950.
[36:00.710 --> 36:02.430]  Show your support for the radio station.
[36:02.530 --> 36:03.670]  Show your support for Off the Hook.
[36:04.050 --> 36:05.350]  Every little bit counts.
[36:05.450 --> 36:07.870]  $25 a Off the Hook t-shirt.
[36:07.950 --> 36:09.930]  $75 a hooded sweatshirt from $2,600.
[36:10.050 --> 36:10.450]  $125.
[36:10.910 --> 36:13.430]  The entire Fifth Hope VCD collection.
[36:13.890 --> 36:15.770]  212-209-2950.
[36:15.770 --> 36:17.490]  Well, we have one call on the line.
[36:17.690 --> 36:19.990]  We need more than one call on the line, don't we, Redhack?
[36:20.230 --> 36:20.590]  Yeah.
[36:20.770 --> 36:24.090]  And with your pledge, also, you become a WBII member.
[36:24.270 --> 36:24.650]  That's right.
[36:25.110 --> 36:27.590]  Which lets you vote and do all sorts of things.
[36:27.590 --> 36:28.530]  Vote in the WBII.
[36:28.910 --> 36:30.690]  You can't vote for president because of that.
[36:30.850 --> 36:31.550]  Two calls on the line.
[36:31.670 --> 36:33.570]  212-209-2950.
[36:33.570 --> 36:46.230]  And we're the only station in this area that has that kind of a setup where the listeners are actually empowered to help decide where the station goes, what we do, what we cover, what's important to you.
[36:47.130 --> 36:47.770]  Look around.
[36:47.910 --> 36:50.510]  You won't see that kind of interaction anyplace else.
[36:50.570 --> 36:52.290]  And you may not always agree with what you hear on the air.
[36:52.390 --> 36:53.630]  I know I hear that a lot.
[36:54.150 --> 36:59.870]  But I think most people realize that you don't have to agree with everything you hear in order to know that it's a good thing to support.
[37:00.110 --> 37:01.170]  Three calls on the line.
[37:01.290 --> 37:03.390]  212-209-2950.
[37:04.110 --> 37:05.110]  Six calls on the line.
[37:05.210 --> 37:05.370]  Okay.
[37:05.670 --> 37:06.790]  Well, that's good to see.
[37:06.910 --> 37:07.470]  It's good to see.
[37:07.910 --> 37:10.590]  The important thing here is that this place survived.
[37:10.590 --> 37:12.930]  We've been around since, I think, 1960.
[37:13.790 --> 37:14.710]  And it's just...
[37:15.090 --> 37:20.390]  It was always impossible to do what it is that we do, to have a radio station in the middle of the FM dial.
[37:20.490 --> 37:23.670]  And we are, for those of you who are listening on the internet, we are in the middle of the FM dial.
[37:23.790 --> 37:28.490]  We're not down there in the ghetto below 92 where all the non-commercial stations are thrown.
[37:28.650 --> 37:30.190]  No, we're right in the middle, okay?
[37:31.090 --> 37:36.490]  We're as powerful as K-Rock and Z100 and Q104.3 and all those other stations.
[37:36.710 --> 37:38.450]  We're on the Empire State Building.
[37:38.610 --> 37:40.610]  We're able to reach New York State.
[37:40.610 --> 37:41.790]  We're able to reach Connecticut.
[37:41.790 --> 37:44.110]  We're able to reach New Jersey and parts of Pennsylvania.
[37:44.450 --> 37:46.130]  And that's not even counting the internet.
[37:46.330 --> 37:50.510]  But the only reason we're able to do this is because we get listener support.
[37:50.710 --> 37:57.430]  And if you're listening, if you're listening, whether you're listening in Kuala Lumpur or you're listening in New York City, you're a listener.
[37:57.630 --> 37:58.630]  And we need your help.
[37:58.630 --> 38:00.490]  212-209-2950.
[38:00.630 --> 38:02.390]  And we've tried to make it as pleasant as possible.
[38:02.410 --> 38:04.690]  Of course, it's always pleasant to support something you believe in.
[38:05.270 --> 38:20.330]  But by donating these items to the radio station, which are complete donations on the part of 2600, we're hoping to entice you and also just to thank you for being there because our listeners and our readers are the reason we do this.
[38:20.450 --> 38:25.930]  And of course, the attendees at the conferences, it's just great to have feedback, to know that people are out there and that it is making a difference.
[38:25.930 --> 38:30.630]  It's the mail that we get, the phone calls we get, it all adds up.
[38:30.730 --> 38:32.130]  And that's why we keep doing it.
[38:32.690 --> 38:33.050]  Emmanuel.
[38:33.330 --> 38:33.750]  Yes, Bernie.
[38:33.930 --> 38:37.490]  I was just thinking that this VCD set is truly a treasure.
[38:38.130 --> 38:39.050]  I just heard a lot of...
[38:39.050 --> 38:40.450]  Yeah, it's that phone system again.
[38:40.630 --> 38:41.190]  Oh, yeah, the feedback.
[38:41.370 --> 38:42.390]  Yeah, I'm sorry about that.
[38:42.390 --> 38:51.370]  This VCD set is really a treasure because as you pointed out, even if you were at this conference, the most you could have possibly seen was half of the panel discussion.
[38:51.750 --> 38:54.230]  That's if you planted yourself there the whole time.
[38:54.310 --> 38:55.170]  Usually you're walking around.
[38:55.170 --> 39:03.770]  I mean, the people who were involved with all the volunteers at the conference, in which there are probably hundreds of volunteers that made this thing happen, just saw a small fraction.
[39:03.950 --> 39:05.790]  But I'm looking forward to seeing this set myself.
[39:05.950 --> 39:07.310]  This is such a treasure.
[39:07.450 --> 39:15.870]  I was just thinking, though, we should really make a time capsule and put the VCDs for the conferences in a time capsule and bury it somewhere.
[39:15.950 --> 39:16.610]  Don't you think it's a good idea?
[39:16.890 --> 39:18.530]  Where can you bury time capsules these days?
[39:18.610 --> 39:19.390]  Do you need a permit for that?
[39:19.490 --> 39:21.390]  I don't know, but I think it's a great idea.
[39:21.930 --> 39:22.350]  Okay.
[39:22.790 --> 39:36.450]  Well, speaking of permits, we have an update from the critical mass hearing today, and we understand that a decision is going to be announced tomorrow morning on whether the critical mass bike ride can take place on Friday, according to New York City,
[39:36.510 --> 39:37.610]  whether it needs a parade permit.
[39:37.810 --> 39:39.450]  It's unbelievable what things have come to.
[39:39.850 --> 39:41.030]  Listen to WBAI.
[39:41.110 --> 39:43.170]  There'll be information on this radio station about that.
[39:43.250 --> 39:46.150]  And I dare say probably very few other places will care.
[39:46.730 --> 39:53.030]  So if that matters to you and if all the other things that are covered on this radio station matter to you, you need to make that phone call.
[39:53.150 --> 39:58.410]  212-209-2950 because this place is an endangered species.
[39:58.570 --> 40:01.350]  What do you think is going to happen in another four years of George W.
[40:01.530 --> 40:01.690]  Bush?
[40:02.270 --> 40:06.710]  It's going to get harder and harder to express yourself in any way.
[40:06.870 --> 40:07.650]  I'll give you an example.
[40:09.110 --> 40:11.050]  A story just came out a couple of days ago.
[40:11.330 --> 40:18.110]  Three teachers were kicked out of a Bush rally because they were wearing a t-shirt that said Protect Civil Liberties.
[40:18.190 --> 40:19.790]  It didn't say anything against Bush.
[40:20.070 --> 40:29.710]  It just said that and apparently the people running that particular rally, I don't know if it was the Bush people themselves but the people certainly coordinated the rally thought that was offensive.
[40:30.390 --> 40:31.730]  That's what it's gotten to.
[40:31.890 --> 40:39.050]  That's what it's gotten to where if you say something about protecting civil liberties then all of a sudden you are a threat and you must be ejected.
[40:39.170 --> 40:52.390]  Another occasion, I think it was Cheney who was asking a question of are you better off now than you were four years ago and somebody shouted no and they were charged with criminal trespassing for doing that.
[40:52.810 --> 41:02.830]  This is the world that we're going into and that's not even counting all the military actions and wars and things like that that are going to happen and I can't say things will be much better under a Kerry administration.
[41:02.870 --> 41:05.850]  We're still going to be the outcast.
[41:05.850 --> 41:21.050]  We're still going to be the threat and they'll succeed if we are weak and by weak that means impoverished that means unable to fix our equipment that means unable to keep going on a day-to-day basis and that's why the radio station has to survive.
[41:21.310 --> 41:22.590]  It's for all of our sakes.
[41:23.030 --> 41:29.890]  212-209-2950 three pledge levels 25-75-125 but really any amount is welcome.
[41:30.130 --> 41:32.130]  We accept credit cards of all sorts.
[41:32.270 --> 41:35.810]  We don't discriminate and if you don't have a credit card we will send you a bill.
[41:36.570 --> 41:42.890]  212-209-2950 Our listeners are going to pull out some obscure credit card that we don't take.
[41:43.130 --> 41:43.290]  Go ahead.
[41:43.350 --> 41:43.690]  Try it.
[41:43.810 --> 41:44.070]  Try it.
[41:44.070 --> 41:44.590]  Give it a shot.
[41:45.250 --> 41:46.490]  I think we take them all.
[41:46.590 --> 41:47.050]  I really do.
[41:47.170 --> 41:48.250]  I hope we do.
[41:49.450 --> 41:50.250]  Montgomery Ward.
[41:50.750 --> 41:52.010]  Does that even still exist?
[41:52.150 --> 41:52.830]  Didn't they go out of business?
[41:54.050 --> 41:54.450]  JL.
[41:54.670 --> 42:01.510]  212-209-2950 Here are a couple more things that are kind of funny concerning politics.
[42:01.750 --> 42:03.930]  I went to a Bush speech at the local arena.
[42:04.070 --> 42:07.710]  They only asked people to turn their phones on at the security checkpoint to make sure they were functional.
[42:07.750 --> 42:14.650]  This is in reply to a story we read a couple of weeks ago about attendees at a Bush rally being told to turn their phones on.
[42:15.130 --> 42:16.290]  Maybe to track them.
[42:16.350 --> 42:16.770]  Who knows?
[42:17.290 --> 42:20.210]  I also had to turn on my video camera which they allowed in.
[42:21.290 --> 42:25.530]  Someone tried to take a picture of the dogs near the security checkpoint and was told to stop.
[42:26.030 --> 42:29.990]  At a carry event a lady saw a dog and said to its handler he's so cute.
[42:30.110 --> 42:30.710]  What's his name?
[42:30.870 --> 42:33.110]  The guy said we're not allowed to talk about it.
[42:36.310 --> 42:42.970]  Outside the arena after the Bush speech there was a cardboard box on the ground with a crowd of people swarming around it pawing at the contents.
[42:43.290 --> 42:45.850]  All the items confiscated at the checkpoints.
[42:45.970 --> 42:51.250]  A big collection of Swiss army knives and similar sharp objects spray bottles and quite a few cell phones.
[42:51.570 --> 42:57.430]  I guess those are the ones with dead batteries and people surrendered them rather than missed a chance to see the president hoping to pick their belongings up later.
[42:57.990 --> 43:03.970]  I hope they were able to because it was a free-for-all in the honor system and anyone could have picked up a nice Swiss army knife or a cell phone.
[43:06.190 --> 43:11.330]  So there's an indication of BAI listeners keeping their eyes out and telling us things that we would ordinarily not know about.
[43:11.470 --> 43:21.830]  And I think that's what's really cool about this place about this show is the fact that we're always looking for things that are interesting whether it's in airports whether it's at rallies whether it's just in the street.
[43:22.150 --> 43:27.290]  If somebody sees something out there they let us know we let you know and there's power in that.
[43:27.410 --> 43:30.870]  212-209-2950 help invest in this place.
[43:30.930 --> 43:31.090]  Jim?
[43:31.350 --> 43:40.870]  I just want to point out that at the moment we have 300 bucks that have come in so far that's a good start and we have four calls on the line but I think we should use the carrot-of-the-stick approach.
[43:41.190 --> 43:47.430]  So, if I don't think that there's enough money coming in I plan to darken the moon tonight starting at about 9.14pm.
[43:47.910 --> 43:49.510]  Oh, you're not going to do that again.
[43:50.850 --> 43:51.730]  Yes, I am.
[43:52.710 --> 43:59.310]  I mean, look if you don't develop your superpowers and keep them keep them in use what's the good of them, right?
[43:59.430 --> 44:00.330]  Can you make the Red Sox win?
[44:01.130 --> 44:08.030]  I've been trying trying to stop that it didn't work You can't stop it it's like a barreling train going down a mountain you can't stop it.
[44:08.710 --> 44:30.430]  Yes, there is a total eclipse of the moon tonight so please go out there and look at it because it's really it's really kind of cool and this may be the most widely televised total eclipse of the moon ever because of the baseball game going on tonight outside and people will probably be looking at the moon I don't know how good it's going to be in St. Louis I thought it was mostly the eastern
[44:30.430 --> 44:50.230]  United States but yeah it might hit St. Louis Yeah, I don't think it differentiates between countries and cities Yes, it does actually Well, not that much I mean, St. Louis isn't that far away Oh, that's true that's why I'm thinking they'll get at least partial It'll be a nice cool orange moon in the middle of October or the end of October so it's well worth it Quickly the times in the east starts
[44:50.230 --> 45:06.630]  at 9.14 first totality is 10.23 totality ends 11.45pm and the lunar eclipse totally ends in New York City at 12.54am But it costs money for us to bring you these eclipses and we need your support so that we can continue to do so in the future 212 what?
[45:06.870 --> 45:25.230]  212-209-2950 Every little bit counts I'm just wondering if failing to pledge will stop the eclipses Some people might want A little bit No, I plan to keep it dark if there's not enough pledges 212-209-2950 Again, every single VCD of the...
[45:25.230 --> 45:28.770]  Let's hear another one of those because that was pretty good What's the next one we're going to hear, Mike?
[45:28.970 --> 45:38.010]  The next one is on track 2 and it is some introduction to urban exploring This was very interesting Urban exploring?
[45:38.090 --> 45:38.810]  What's urban exploring?
[45:38.810 --> 45:57.070]  If you press play you'll find out I'm John Lita editor of Long Island Oddities a magazine It's about weird places on Long Island and it discusses urban exploring as a main thing Urban exploring for those of you who don't know which I think most of you do Can I see a sign of hands how many people know?
[45:57.770 --> 45:58.870]  And now how many people have?
[45:59.850 --> 46:20.710]  Okay, urban exploring is seeing things that other people don't normally see It's finding ways into things that other people don't normally get into It's alternative ways of getting around maybe going from class to class through the steam tunnels instead of you know the paved pathways and the lawns where you're supposed to walk and we're going to talk a little bit about that Hi.
[46:20.950 --> 46:21.690]  Can everybody hear me?
[46:22.330 --> 46:23.050]  Okay, good.
[46:23.550 --> 46:24.410]  My name is Laura.
[46:24.690 --> 46:29.150]  I've also been co-editor of Long Island Oddities and I've been an explorer for many years.
[46:29.790 --> 46:33.110]  Does any of you know the term urban exploring is vatting?
[46:33.610 --> 46:35.010]  Anybody ever heard of vatting?
[46:35.770 --> 46:38.090]  This was something... Okay, good.
[46:38.470 --> 46:44.050]  This was something out of MIT that used to be a text adventure game, just like they were talking about in retro computing.
[46:44.250 --> 46:45.230]  The wampus is near you.
[46:45.230 --> 46:51.370]  But anyway, the system admins would try to delete this game, which was called ADV something, the file name.
[46:51.650 --> 46:55.350]  They changed it to VAD and then the people couldn't find it to delete it.
[46:55.490 --> 47:01.370]  So that's where it came from, just finding little things to, you know, get what you want unconventionally.
[47:01.610 --> 47:06.050]  Well, that's basically urban exploring physically and it is related to hacking.
[47:06.710 --> 47:08.830]  I found a definition of to hack.
[47:09.150 --> 47:11.350]  It's not necessarily for computers.
[47:11.350 --> 47:15.530]  The term came from long before computers were ever invented.
[47:15.870 --> 47:21.350]  It means to do something in an unconventional way, not the way it was used for to get what you want done.
[47:21.530 --> 47:23.830]  Whether it's going into a building for curiosity.
[47:24.150 --> 47:27.750]  Steam tunnels weren't meant to be tourist attractions just to go look around, take pictures.
[47:27.910 --> 47:32.830]  They're meant for utilitarian purposes, but you're using it unconventionally to get what you want done.
[47:33.130 --> 47:35.610]  I've also found this definition of urban exploring.
[47:35.610 --> 47:39.630]  It's many things to many people, but this pretty much sums it up.
[47:40.330 --> 47:45.130]  Yeah, and urban exploring does a lot of different things to many people.
[47:45.390 --> 47:46.750]  First of all, it raises your awareness.
[47:47.190 --> 47:51.110]  You'll start walking around, you'll notice doors, vents, pipes, whatever.
[47:51.390 --> 47:52.190]  It brings your attention.
[47:52.390 --> 47:53.750]  Most people just walk around unaware.
[47:54.450 --> 47:59.230]  I'm sure some of you found some interesting things, even walking around the hotel, just looking around.
[47:59.450 --> 48:01.410]  You just, you start noticing things.
[48:01.790 --> 48:06.590]  It also forces you to learn the history of places and to learn about where you are, where you're in steam tunnels.
[48:06.590 --> 48:07.310]  How do they work?
[48:07.410 --> 48:07.950]  What do they do?
[48:08.030 --> 48:08.530]  Are there dangers?
[48:08.770 --> 48:11.750]  What forces you to study and learn about your surroundings?
[48:13.810 --> 48:23.770]  Okay, and that was an excerpt from the urban exploring panel at the Fifth Hope, which is really, really cool because urban exploring is another form of hacking.
[48:23.770 --> 48:25.430]  It's real-world hacking.
[48:25.610 --> 48:28.350]  It's walking around, seeing things, noticing things.
[48:28.890 --> 48:31.590]  I think that's why it all kind of ties together really nicely.
[48:31.590 --> 48:36.570]  People who like to explore subways, people who are into lockpicking, people who just notice things around them.
[48:36.690 --> 48:40.630]  Because hacking doesn't have to do with just computers or just phones.
[48:40.650 --> 48:48.290]  It has to do with the overall awareness and an ability to experiment and to learn all kinds of new things by trying.
[48:48.290 --> 48:53.130]  So that's something you'll get for a pledge of $125, 212-209-2950.
[48:53.290 --> 48:53.950]  Not just that.
[48:54.050 --> 48:55.670]  You'll get... How many panels do we have?
[48:55.930 --> 48:57.170]  Many, many panels.
[48:57.270 --> 48:58.030]  Many, many panels.
[48:58.170 --> 49:03.530]  Three days filled with two tracks of panels from morning to midnight.
[49:04.030 --> 49:05.330]  Just about urban exploring.
[49:05.450 --> 49:08.270]  I remember talking to someone who is from Amsterdam.
[49:08.570 --> 49:12.590]  And when he was younger, he did some urban exploring of the subway system himself.
[49:13.290 --> 49:14.350]  In Amsterdam or here?
[49:14.510 --> 49:15.150]  In Amsterdam.
[49:15.310 --> 49:15.450]  Okay.
[49:16.150 --> 49:17.050]  And he had...
[49:17.050 --> 49:22.610]  They had somehow obtained a copy of this key that could open most of the doors in the subway system and they'd go around.
[49:22.770 --> 49:23.710]  I think I know this story.
[49:23.790 --> 49:25.010]  I know you know this story.
[49:28.410 --> 49:30.230]  And they found interesting things.
[49:30.310 --> 49:41.030]  For example, sometimes in Amsterdam, when they'd close the subway station, because they'd close them at night, someone would be in the station and they'd be sitting there and suddenly the lights would go out and they'd be locked in and they'd have to stay there for the night.
[49:41.030 --> 49:51.330]  And so while they were exploring the subway systems and the tunnels, they'd find people sitting in the subway station at night when it was dark and they'd let them out and say, okay, why don't you come with us through these tunnels?
[49:52.610 --> 49:54.350]  And it was very interesting to hear about.
[49:54.470 --> 50:00.790]  There were some doors they couldn't open and somehow they got either an imprint or a copy of the key that could open them.
[50:00.950 --> 50:07.570]  And by taking the two keys they had, they were able to make one master key that didn't actually exist anywhere that could open any door in the subway system.
[50:07.570 --> 50:09.090]  So they had a master key and no one else did?
[50:09.110 --> 50:09.530]  No one else did.
[50:09.810 --> 50:11.550]  Well, did you hear the rest of the story though?
[50:12.070 --> 50:16.810]  They were able to open a door and they found a secret area which was actually a bomb shelter.
[50:17.230 --> 50:25.210]  And not only that, they had the ability to have a wall come crashing down, closing off, sealing off the subway tunnel actually on the tracks.
[50:25.450 --> 50:27.850]  If they had turned a particular knob, they would have been able to do that.
[50:28.230 --> 50:36.850]  And if you went into this bomb shelter, and I was in there, I saw it myself, there were just lines and lines of beds and canned food and all kinds of things like that.
[50:36.850 --> 50:39.550]  This was back in the 80s and 90s.
[50:40.130 --> 50:41.750]  So yeah, it's amazing what you can explore.
[50:41.830 --> 50:44.090]  And I'm sure you'd be a terrorist if you did something like that today.
[50:45.030 --> 50:49.970]  But I think the spirit is to learn to find things, to figure out where things are.
[50:50.150 --> 50:58.770]  Just today, for instance, they opened up the City Hall subway station, the original, the first station on the New York City subway system.
[50:59.330 --> 51:01.510]  And if you know where it is, you can find it.
[51:01.570 --> 51:02.450]  You can find that entrance.
[51:02.450 --> 51:03.830]  It's somewhere in the City Hall area.
[51:04.350 --> 51:06.410]  So people know where certain greats go.
[51:06.410 --> 51:08.070]  They know where certain entrances are.
[51:08.210 --> 51:09.310]  It's a good thing to know.
[51:09.410 --> 51:10.410]  It's all part of hacking.
[51:10.730 --> 51:12.390]  212-209-2950.
[51:12.590 --> 51:13.650]  We have two calls on the line.
[51:13.770 --> 51:14.790]  Let's make that five.
[51:15.110 --> 51:15.770]  That would be kind of nice.
[51:15.870 --> 51:17.190]  We're only on for another 10 minutes or so.
[51:17.730 --> 51:18.090]  $25.
[51:18.450 --> 51:22.030]  Everybody who pledges 25 or more gets an Off the Hook t-shirt.
[51:22.150 --> 51:26.370]  And that enables you to say with pride that you are an official Off the Hook listener.
[51:26.850 --> 51:27.730]  I have a question.
[51:27.810 --> 51:27.990]  Yes.
[51:28.470 --> 51:30.710]  What if I don't pledge in the next 10 minutes?
[51:30.810 --> 51:32.610]  Can I pledge next week or tomorrow?
[51:32.850 --> 51:33.130]  No.
[51:33.330 --> 51:36.110]  Well, I mean, you can pledge for the radio station, yes, but not for Off the Hook.
[51:36.110 --> 51:39.890]  Off the Hook is only on this week for the fundraiser.
[51:39.990 --> 51:44.010]  We'll be on again in two weeks, but we won't have this deal in two weeks.
[51:44.190 --> 51:47.070]  And plus, who knows what's going to happen to the country by that point.
[51:47.450 --> 51:49.430]  So, you know, we could all be in jail.
[51:49.630 --> 51:49.990]  We don't know.
[51:49.990 --> 51:51.510]  212-209-2950.
[51:51.670 --> 51:53.210]  25 and above gets the t-shirt.
[51:54.150 --> 51:56.570]  75 gets the 2600 hooded sweatshirt.
[51:56.710 --> 51:59.850]  It'd be the ultimate in cool and also keeps you warm.
[52:00.030 --> 52:04.470]  And $125, you get all the VCDs from the Fifth Hope.
[52:04.710 --> 52:05.210]  All of them.
[52:05.330 --> 52:06.430]  Every last one.
[52:06.590 --> 52:07.810]  I think, what, there's about 50 maybe?
[52:08.210 --> 52:08.670]  More than that.
[52:08.710 --> 52:09.170]  More than 50?
[52:09.330 --> 52:09.510]  Yeah.
[52:09.650 --> 52:10.190]  Yeah, a lot.
[52:10.350 --> 52:12.490]  Now, I've heard sometimes they give tours of the city hall.
[52:12.610 --> 52:13.110]  Besides today.
[52:13.210 --> 52:13.890]  I mean, obviously today.
[52:13.890 --> 52:15.370]  And I don't know if they're giving them later this week.
[52:15.450 --> 52:22.410]  But if you don't have any patients like me and you do want to see the station, it is fairly easy to do so.
[52:22.410 --> 52:27.370]  Just stay on the line and peer out the windows as it turns around.
[52:27.490 --> 52:30.670]  Well, what you have to do is you have to take number six train down to Brooklyn Bridge.
[52:30.890 --> 52:33.450]  Now, the recording will say, this is the last stop.
[52:33.610 --> 52:35.110]  Everybody get the hell off the train.
[52:35.210 --> 52:35.610]  They added that.
[52:37.070 --> 52:39.250]  And you have to stay kind of in the back.
[52:39.370 --> 52:41.230]  Because the new trains, you can see all the way through them.
[52:41.370 --> 52:43.690]  And they're very brightly lit.
[52:43.690 --> 52:45.510]  So, if you can dress in camouflage, that might be best.
[52:45.750 --> 52:48.630]  But just try and sort of lean up against the wall and not be seen.
[52:48.730 --> 52:49.710]  Don't make any sudden movements.
[52:49.830 --> 52:51.110]  Try not to shout or anything like that.
[52:51.350 --> 52:54.350]  And then once the door closes, then you're safe.
[52:54.350 --> 52:56.230]  And the train will actually go around that circle.
[52:56.370 --> 52:59.710]  And it might even stop for a second at the old city hall station.
[52:59.750 --> 53:00.870]  Which is a very small station.
[53:00.870 --> 53:01.650]  It's on a curve.
[53:02.510 --> 53:03.870]  And it's really cool to look at.
[53:03.970 --> 53:09.490]  And then what happens is the number six train turns around and pops up on the uptown platform of Brooklyn Bridge.
[53:09.630 --> 53:09.770]  Yep.
[53:10.570 --> 53:13.450]  But if a cop sees you and tells you to get off, you probably should.
[53:14.030 --> 53:15.530]  Even though it doesn't make any sense.
[53:15.810 --> 53:15.870]  Yeah.
[53:16.210 --> 53:17.530]  212-209-2950.
[53:18.370 --> 53:19.270]  It's good to see calls coming in.
[53:19.310 --> 53:20.550]  We have four on the line right now.
[53:21.010 --> 53:22.330]  But I'll never understand that machine.
[53:22.490 --> 53:23.930]  The line is just popping up everywhere.
[53:24.150 --> 53:26.410]  We have a little display of phone calls.
[53:26.450 --> 53:27.950]  And you think they come in consecutively.
[53:28.210 --> 53:29.310]  But number two is lit.
[53:29.370 --> 53:30.110]  Number 11 is lit.
[53:30.190 --> 53:31.330]  Number 13 and number 15.
[53:31.470 --> 53:32.090]  And now number three.
[53:32.190 --> 53:34.410]  It's interesting when you're actually answering phones.
[53:34.550 --> 53:35.750]  Because they're going all over the place.
[53:35.750 --> 53:37.950]  You have to jump all over to find which one's ringing.
[53:38.190 --> 53:43.950]  So if you want to cause a little bit of mayhem in the tally room and also make us happy by pledging, please make those...
[53:43.950 --> 53:44.290]  Oh, look at that.
[53:44.370 --> 53:44.970]  The phones are ringing.
[53:45.110 --> 53:46.990]  We have four calls on the line right now.
[53:47.350 --> 53:49.230]  212-209-2950.
[53:49.230 --> 53:50.730]  We've broken the $1,000 mark.
[53:51.070 --> 53:52.110]  And that's great.
[53:52.130 --> 53:56.470]  Because that's sort of what I like to do in an hour-long show is break the $1,000 mark.
[53:57.470 --> 54:00.530]  It's funny, though, because if you go on to these other radio stations...
[54:00.530 --> 54:02.230]  I don't want to point too many fingers.
[54:02.390 --> 54:05.970]  But the really big corporate ones that still somehow manage to ask for money...
[54:06.670 --> 54:09.570]  This kind of fundraising is done in like a minute.
[54:10.710 --> 54:12.710]  You know, especially the TV stations.
[54:12.710 --> 54:14.650]  They just raise money like you would not believe.
[54:14.810 --> 54:15.590]  And, you know, whatever.
[54:15.630 --> 54:17.050]  If that's what they need to do, fine.
[54:17.050 --> 54:20.310]  Although, I somehow think with all those corporate grants and things like that...
[54:20.310 --> 54:25.790]  You know, compared to other countries where public broadcasting is kind of like assumed...
[54:25.790 --> 54:26.890]  And they don't ask for money.
[54:26.970 --> 54:28.150]  They just present programming.
[54:29.650 --> 54:32.910]  You would think that something like that would be funded in this country.
[54:33.430 --> 54:37.110]  Here, however, at this radio station, we don't have corporate grants of any sort.
[54:37.110 --> 54:39.810]  We don't have the government backing us.
[54:40.630 --> 54:42.050]  Any government backing us.
[54:42.190 --> 54:43.850]  We just have listeners.
[54:44.030 --> 54:44.830]  We just have producers.
[54:44.890 --> 54:46.590]  We just have the history of this place.
[54:46.590 --> 54:48.010]  That's what makes it happen.
[54:48.110 --> 54:48.870]  That's what makes it matter.
[54:49.350 --> 54:51.210]  2-2-2-0-9-2-9-5-0.
[54:51.430 --> 54:52.350]  That's our phone number.
[54:54.050 --> 55:00.090]  Here's a letter from the guy who sent us the cell phone thing from the Bush rally.
[55:00.570 --> 55:01.650]  Thanks for reading my letter.
[55:01.770 --> 55:03.250]  I appreciated the discussion.
[55:03.770 --> 55:07.630]  It wasn't an airport-style on and show-to-security kind of thing.
[55:07.650 --> 55:09.130]  Like I theorized it might have been.
[55:09.650 --> 55:12.910]  The instructions were to turn it on and leave it on.
[55:13.130 --> 55:15.970]  Turn your cell phone on and leave your cell phone on during the Bush rally.
[55:16.590 --> 55:21.210]  I would think it would be fairly easy to tell when a phone is idle and when it's not on a call.
[55:22.510 --> 55:25.590]  On the flip side, it's probably fairly easy to tell when the phones are being used.
[55:25.750 --> 55:31.430]  Now, if they were able to read a signal like a phone is being used and look into the audience and see nobody on a cell phone, it might be something for concern.
[55:31.570 --> 55:32.330]  This is my theory.
[55:32.490 --> 55:33.030]  Signed, Nick.
[55:33.610 --> 55:34.810]  Bernie, any thoughts on that?
[55:35.330 --> 55:45.710]  Well, I still think it's really strange and I'd like to hear from other Bush rally attendees, if there are any listening, as to whether they had experienced the same instruction to leave the cell phone on.
[55:45.950 --> 55:59.070]  If it's true, I would think that the Secret Service would be, or through their colleagues, be monitoring the cell phones and for, you know, using special equipment to find out who is there.
[55:59.070 --> 56:03.330]  They can tell from the IDs of the phone, basically, who's there, who ruins the phone.
[56:03.670 --> 56:12.070]  Or, you know, not just the Bush rally, but anything in the world, really, because people have cell phones everywhere and governments always want to track people.
[56:12.190 --> 56:16.150]  So, if this is happening here, I'm sure it's happened someplace else as well.
[56:16.150 --> 56:21.370]  So, if you have any indication that this kind of thing is happening, let us know.
[56:21.530 --> 56:24.170]  You know, maybe it's inside a corporation, maybe it's in another country.
[56:25.110 --> 56:30.290]  If you're at an event and you were told to turn your cell phone on, we think that's kind of unusual.
[56:30.290 --> 56:32.390]  We'd like to explore it and figure out what they're up to.
[56:32.510 --> 56:36.230]  At least this time they didn't make them sign a contract agreeing to vote for Bush.
[56:37.730 --> 56:40.010]  The problem here is we learned about this too late.
[56:40.170 --> 56:43.510]  This lends itself to experimentation to see what the purpose of it is.
[56:43.510 --> 56:52.090]  We could have sent a whole bunch of us to a Bush rally and had one of us surreptitiously make a call and see if that caused electronic consternation among the Secret Service.
[56:52.270 --> 56:53.490]  Well, Jim, I think it's...
[56:53.490 --> 56:55.310]  I would have volunteered for it, even with my...
[56:55.310 --> 56:59.890]  In the world of oppression and surveillance, it's never too late because there will be other rallies.
[56:59.890 --> 57:04.710]  There will be other gatherings where they'll try to spy on people and figure out who's there and who's not.
[57:04.870 --> 57:07.650]  I don't think I could get into a Bush rally looking like I do.
[57:07.910 --> 57:09.790]  Well, yeah, you have to put on your mask.
[57:11.030 --> 57:12.350]  212-209-2950.
[57:12.350 --> 57:13.930]  We have a flurry of calls.
[57:14.090 --> 57:21.830]  Let's make that the last flurry of the evening as we prepare to yield to the personal computer people at 8 o'clock.
[57:21.930 --> 57:23.830]  212-209-2950.
[57:24.350 --> 57:26.590]  Pledge of $25 gets you a t-shirt.
[57:26.750 --> 57:28.790]  Pledge of $75 gets you a hooded sweatshirt.
[57:29.010 --> 57:30.270]  2,600 hooded sweatshirt.
[57:30.350 --> 57:36.710]  Pledge of $125 gets you the full collection of Fifth Hope VCDs, every single panel that went on at the conference.
[57:37.710 --> 57:40.810]  We do enjoy getting mail, O-T-H, at 2600.com.
[57:40.910 --> 57:42.610]  Here's one of the pieces that we got.
[57:42.730 --> 57:43.030]  Congratulations.
[57:43.030 --> 57:44.430]  You all are radical liberals.
[57:44.590 --> 57:48.290]  It's because of people like yourself that wrap yourself in the Constitution, why this country is declining.
[57:48.450 --> 57:49.210]  Don't blame it on Bush.
[57:49.470 --> 57:50.430]  Blame it on yourselves.
[57:50.590 --> 57:54.290]  Thank you, Corey, for sending that piece of constructive criticism in.
[57:54.510 --> 57:55.930]  We do enjoy getting mail.
[57:56.170 --> 57:56.970]  All sorts of mail.
[57:57.030 --> 57:58.030]  I just want to say to...
[57:58.030 --> 57:58.770]  What was the guy's name?
[57:58.850 --> 57:59.110]  Corey?
[57:59.270 --> 57:59.390]  Yeah.
[57:59.730 --> 58:04.350]  Corey, if you're still listening, which I doubt, I take great umbrage at that.
[58:04.350 --> 58:05.410]  I'm a radical conservative.
[58:05.970 --> 58:09.230]  Well, you know, I think people of all political stripes listen.
[58:09.630 --> 58:15.730]  And I don't think we need to say that we only appeal to one, because I know a lot of right-wing people listen to us.
[58:15.790 --> 58:17.050]  A lot of right-wing people enjoy us.
[58:17.210 --> 58:18.830]  A lot of right-wing people participate.
[58:19.110 --> 58:19.790]  Yes, that's true.
[58:20.150 --> 58:20.910]  More power to them.
[58:21.030 --> 58:23.750]  Well, maybe not that, but you know what I mean.
[58:24.050 --> 58:25.650]  212-209-2950.
[58:25.850 --> 58:27.390]  Keep it up, and I won't bring the moon back.
[58:28.590 --> 58:29.510]  You're really going to do this.
[58:29.590 --> 58:30.330]  You're going to go through with this.
[58:31.610 --> 58:34.070]  100th anniversary of the subway system.
[58:34.070 --> 58:38.250]  Red Sox winning their first World Series in almost 100 years, and the moon going out tonight.
[58:39.370 --> 58:40.290]  Everything's in alignment.
[58:40.470 --> 58:41.390]  It certainly is.
[58:41.930 --> 58:47.090]  All we need now is a Bush victory, and it's time for the apocalypse to really happen.
[58:47.390 --> 58:51.150]  But just think, another week, the voting at least will be over.
[58:51.270 --> 58:52.590]  The fighting will probably just be beginning.
[58:53.130 --> 59:03.670]  And in two weeks, when we're back, it's going to be a different nation of sorts, because with Bush for another four years, oh, we're going to see things that I don't think we can even imagine right now.
[59:03.990 --> 59:06.850]  And with Kerry, well, I don't know what that's going to mean.
[59:06.910 --> 59:09.030]  But it's definitely going to mean a change of some sort.
[59:09.710 --> 59:11.250]  A change to more of the same?
[59:11.430 --> 59:11.910]  I don't know.
[59:13.390 --> 59:15.070]  212-209-2950.
[59:15.250 --> 59:22.730]  And let's issue one last appeal also for the MetroCards, and for any kind of research that people can offer us.
[59:23.390 --> 59:28.110]  Redbird, you're collecting this information and learning all kinds of things as you go along.
[59:28.570 --> 59:30.470]  We're also interested in receipts, right?
[59:30.730 --> 59:31.470]  Receipts, yes.
[59:31.710 --> 59:32.850]  Receipts from where?
[59:33.070 --> 59:34.290]  From the vending machines, mainly.
[59:34.490 --> 59:37.190]  I don't think you get receipts from the tellers, though.
[59:37.190 --> 59:37.690]  No, you don't.
[59:37.810 --> 59:38.010]  You don't.
[59:38.190 --> 59:38.850]  From the booths.
[59:38.850 --> 59:39.970]  Even if you ask for one, you don't get one.
[59:40.170 --> 59:41.250]  They have none to issue.
[59:42.030 --> 59:42.830]  Oh, how about that?
[59:43.110 --> 59:43.610]  Well, okay.
[59:43.710 --> 59:49.190]  So if you're at one of those MetroCard machines and get a receipt, it's valuable information because there's little numbers that are printed there.
[59:49.250 --> 59:51.770]  We can figure out what they mean, what it's all about.
[59:51.950 --> 59:54.310]  Is that preferably coupled with the actual MetroCard?
[59:54.370 --> 59:54.570]  Yes.
[59:54.570 --> 59:55.010]  We don't need...
[59:55.010 --> 59:55.790]  Well, I mean...
[59:55.790 --> 59:58.010]  It makes very little sense if it's not coupled.
[59:58.130 --> 59:58.230]  Yeah.
[59:58.770 --> 59:59.650]  It makes some sense.
[59:59.770 --> 01:00:00.630]  It does make sense.
[01:00:00.950 --> 01:00:02.590]  You know, anything you have, send it in.
[01:00:02.730 --> 01:00:07.410]  There is some info on there that we can get that does not need to be coupled with the MetroCard.
[01:00:07.410 --> 01:00:10.730]  Okay, and again, the address is 2600 P.O.
[01:00:10.750 --> 01:00:13.870]  Box 99, Middle Island, New York, 11953.
[01:00:14.050 --> 01:00:26.110]  Send us any kind of special MetroCard you might have, reduced fare, student, handicapped, staff, whatever, and also anything having to do with the Chicago Transit Authority system because it's the same system and we're learning a lot about it as we go along.
[01:00:26.610 --> 01:00:27.550]  Okay, we're out of time.
[01:00:27.550 --> 01:00:31.450]  Again, the phone number, 212-209-2950.
[01:00:31.830 --> 01:00:33.950]  Pledge of $25 gets you an off-the-hook t-shirt.
[01:00:34.110 --> 01:00:36.650]  Pledge of $75 gets you a 2600 hooded sweatshirt.
[01:00:36.710 --> 01:00:43.830]  And a pledge of $125 gets you all of the Fifth Hope VCDs, which is an incredible collection.
[01:00:43.830 --> 01:00:48.290]  We'll keep you off the streets for months as you're listening to everything that took place.
[01:00:48.290 --> 01:00:51.250]  But again, you got to make that call now because we're about to leave.
[01:00:52.970 --> 01:00:54.830]  212-209-2950.
[01:00:54.990 --> 01:00:58.390]  Thanks everybody for pledging and we'll see you again in two weeks.
[01:00:58.590 --> 01:01:01.030]  Again, 212-209-2950.
[01:01:36.440 --> 01:01:37.840]  212-209-2950.
[01:02:18.870 --> 01:02:21.670]  212-209-2950.
[01:03:00.540 --> 01:03:04.160]  212-209-2950.
[01:03:40.140 --> 01:03:46.040]  Hey, you're listening to WBAI New York 99.5 FM.
[01:03:46.040 --> 01:03:47.200]  Orange Stereo.
[01:03:47.440 --> 01:03:52.660]  First, I got to point out the best bus driver in...
[01:03:53.860 --> 01:03:56.160]  The best bus driver in Brooklyn.
[01:03:56.380 --> 01:03:57.120]  Theo Gooden.
[01:03:57.320 --> 01:03:58.400]  It's his birthday today.
[01:03:58.780 --> 01:04:00.280]  Theo Gooden's birthday.
[01:04:00.480 --> 01:04:02.040]  He's a bus driver in Brooklyn.
[01:04:02.700 --> 01:04:05.360]  You're listening to WBAI New York.