[00:00.000 --> 00:01.120]  ...that they are speaking to.
[00:01.360 --> 00:10.020]  They usually tend to be a monolingual Spanish-speaking audience and it's a great first step to enfranchisement into the political process.
[00:10.280 --> 00:18.880]  Jerry Fowell's televised preachings, along with Pat Robertson's 700 Club, are widely watched by evangelicals, including Latinos.
[00:19.680 --> 00:26.560]  Pastor Valdez sees these American religious figures as important role models to the evangelical faith.
[00:30.060 --> 00:31.840]  They are people of influence.
[00:32.300 --> 00:37.460]  They influence the Latino-Christian community each day in their TV and radio programs.
[00:37.960 --> 00:41.400]  They influence us, share their faith.
[00:41.760 --> 00:44.020]  They keep our community well-informed.
[00:44.660 --> 00:46.500]  I think they bring a positive message.
[00:46.560 --> 00:48.340]  They are doing a great job.
[00:49.860 --> 01:02.260]  Despite faith being a factor for many Latinos to vote Republican, Latinos still face a 6.7% unemployment rate, along with the highest high school dropout rate in the country.
[01:02.580 --> 01:09.320]  And in states like Michigan, Latino children are less likely than white children to be covered by health insurance.
[01:09.780 --> 01:17.320]  Proof that the Bush administration will have to address some serious issues that affect Latinos in the next four years.
[01:17.920 --> 01:21.300]  Reporting from Washington, D.C., I'm Dolores M.
[01:21.480 --> 01:23.960]  Bernal for Free Speech Radio News.
[01:26.360 --> 01:28.280]  This is Free Speech Radio News.
[01:28.500 --> 01:29.480]  I'm Deepa Fernandez.
[01:42.060 --> 01:47.240]  And you're listening to radio station WBAI in New York, where the time is just about 7 o'clock.
[01:47.880 --> 01:49.240]  Time for Off the Hook.
[01:54.390 --> 01:58.910]  The telephone keeps ringing, so I ripped it off the wall.
[01:59.830 --> 02:04.390]  I cut myself while shaving, now I can't make a cough.
[02:05.230 --> 02:07.190]  We couldn't get much worse.
[02:09.490 --> 02:12.650]  We could, from Diddly Bomb, but the best is back the worst.
[02:13.210 --> 02:16.110]  I hope that's understood, from Diddly Bomb!
[02:54.640 --> 02:55.620]  This is Britain.
[02:58.380 --> 02:59.280]  And a good evening to everybody.
[02:59.400 --> 03:00.540]  The program is Off the Hook.
[03:00.620 --> 03:04.160]  Emmanuel Goldstein here with you for the next hour or so.
[03:05.140 --> 03:09.620]  And first, I want to say congratulations to the entire radio station, because we met our goal.
[03:10.180 --> 03:11.400]  I just looked at the total before.
[03:11.400 --> 03:13.600]  It's somewhere around $930,000, $940,000.
[03:14.160 --> 03:16.400]  And our goal was $900,000, so that's more.
[03:16.540 --> 03:18.260]  So I think we should be very happy.
[03:18.620 --> 03:24.860]  And especially, I want to thank the people who called in to this radio program two weeks ago when we did our one-hour fundraising show.
[03:25.040 --> 03:29.400]  It wasn't any extra time, but we still were able to raise $3,000, which I think is incredible for an hour.
[03:29.820 --> 03:33.980]  Thanks, everybody, for your support, helping this place to keep going.
[03:34.600 --> 03:39.700]  And, you know, in light of what's been going on in the country in the last week or so, stop chortling, Jim.
[03:41.800 --> 03:43.240]  We're going to need all the help we can get.
[03:43.420 --> 03:45.420]  It's going to be an interesting four years ahead.
[03:45.920 --> 03:47.180]  Probably a lot more than that.
[03:49.120 --> 03:51.980]  Bernie, are you being seized or something?
[03:52.560 --> 03:53.300]  No, no, I'm in your case.
[03:53.300 --> 03:53.540]  Okay.
[03:53.960 --> 03:54.260]  All right.
[03:54.300 --> 03:55.940]  We have to be very careful these days.
[03:56.180 --> 03:57.500]  I don't know what's going to happen next.
[03:59.260 --> 04:00.860]  Yeah, Jim, you must be very happy, right?
[04:00.960 --> 04:01.700]  Your guy won.
[04:02.000 --> 04:03.480]  I'm fairly pleased, yes.
[04:03.820 --> 04:04.980]  So what do we have to look at?
[04:05.140 --> 04:13.500]  Everybody, let's turn down all the microphones, and we'll just let Jim go forth for a minute and tell us what's ahead for the next four years.
[04:13.580 --> 04:13.840]  Go ahead.
[04:14.100 --> 04:20.020]  Well, I would be remiss if I don't say that there are still many problems.
[04:20.020 --> 04:32.820]  We do have one clear improvement in the resignation of John Ashcroft, but he's being replaced by a man that I have problems with, despite my right-wing leanings.
[04:35.280 --> 04:39.780]  It's not so much what we have to look forward to.
[04:39.780 --> 04:44.220]  It's what we've avoided, which I think was the way I voted.
[04:45.820 --> 04:49.480]  And we still have to be on guard for civil liberties.
[04:49.500 --> 04:50.680]  I agree with that.
[04:52.140 --> 04:53.580]  You still have 40 seconds.
[04:53.900 --> 04:56.220]  Well, what do you want to say?
[04:56.260 --> 05:04.320]  No, I just wanted to give you the opportunity, because that's going to be the last opportunity for quite some time without people jumping on everything you say.
[05:04.960 --> 05:16.220]  Unlike almost everybody else in this room and a large number of people in the United States on all sides of the spectrum, I believe that it's not so much the president that controls this country.
[05:17.720 --> 05:27.840]  It's the thousand invisible hands of commerce and markets and people interacting among themselves that create the direction the country goes in.
[05:28.020 --> 05:32.380]  The president can channel it, but he doesn't lead, direct, or drive it so much.
[05:33.180 --> 05:33.760]  Okay?
[05:34.000 --> 05:45.080]  So if you don't like what you see, there are many things you can do on a grassroots level to change, or if you like to put it this way, undercut what's going on.
[05:45.340 --> 05:49.020]  So don't blame it all on the president when it might be your own inaction.
[05:49.100 --> 05:51.740]  But apparently voting isn't one of those things because that sure didn't work, did it?
[05:52.380 --> 05:53.360]  This is a democracy.
[05:53.400 --> 05:56.880]  You've got to take the losses with the wins, like I did with Bill Clinton.
[05:57.000 --> 05:57.860]  It's not actually a democracy.
[05:57.860 --> 05:58.440]  It's a republic.
[05:58.960 --> 05:59.460]  That's true.
[05:59.540 --> 06:00.960]  And I'm usually the one that points that out.
[06:01.060 --> 06:01.200]  Yeah.
[06:01.520 --> 06:01.720]  Okay.
[06:01.800 --> 06:02.700]  Well, right back at you then.
[06:04.280 --> 06:04.760]  All right.
[06:04.900 --> 06:08.660]  Well, yeah, it's, you know, interesting times ahead.
[06:09.960 --> 06:11.240]  I was afraid this would happen.
[06:11.380 --> 06:15.580]  I was afraid that, you know, all the polls I was seeing had Bush ahead by a slight amount.
[06:16.460 --> 06:18.840]  And sure enough, that's what he won by.
[06:19.040 --> 06:19.720]  Pretty slight amount.
[06:19.820 --> 06:24.200]  Not a mandate like he's saying he has, but I'm afraid that's the way it's going to be interpreted.
[06:24.200 --> 06:29.360]  And it means that more of the same, except this time he thinks that the majority of people are behind him.
[06:29.420 --> 06:29.660]  And you know what?
[06:29.720 --> 06:30.920]  The majority of people might be behind him.
[06:30.980 --> 06:32.020]  That's what really scares me.
[06:32.300 --> 06:34.080]  Well, compared to last time, it's a mandate.
[06:34.320 --> 06:35.480]  I mean, he got the most votes.
[06:35.480 --> 06:36.280]  Imagine that.
[06:36.680 --> 06:37.220]  That's true.
[06:37.280 --> 06:44.600]  But he also got the most votes against him than any elected president has ever gotten, I believe.
[06:45.060 --> 06:45.720]  That's true.
[06:45.800 --> 06:46.900]  That's an important statistic to have.
[06:46.980 --> 06:54.440]  It's a bad statistic, because in 100 years, okay, whoever loses will have, like, double what the winner had this year.
[06:54.440 --> 06:58.880]  And you're not going to argue that that's necessarily a mandate in any sort.
[06:58.880 --> 07:01.420]  He might lose by 20 percentage points 100 years from now.
[07:02.500 --> 07:03.040]  All right.
[07:03.140 --> 07:04.680]  Well, I'm not going to get into a whole political thing here.
[07:05.040 --> 07:06.180]  There's plenty of time for that.
[07:06.480 --> 07:07.080]  We'd never do that.
[07:07.080 --> 07:13.520]  I just wanted to say that I'm disappointed the youth vote was not any better than it was four years ago.
[07:14.300 --> 07:15.860]  Better is from a turnout standpoint.
[07:16.100 --> 07:17.340]  More misleading statistics.
[07:17.340 --> 07:21.140]  The youth vote was 5 million more than it was four years ago.
[07:21.140 --> 07:23.940]  It's just that everybody else went out and voted as well.
[07:24.020 --> 07:26.040]  So the percentage pretty much stayed the same.
[07:26.040 --> 07:27.120]  I heard it was...
[07:27.120 --> 07:30.060]  I read that it was about 17% both last time and this time.
[07:30.420 --> 07:35.720]  Like I said, if the percentage stayed the same and more people turned out, then yes.
[07:35.940 --> 07:40.940]  All it means is that more youth turning out didn't make a difference because more non-youth turned out as well.
[07:42.720 --> 07:44.960]  Regardless, you know, no use crying over spilt milk.
[07:44.960 --> 07:46.320]  That's exactly what this is right now.
[07:47.680 --> 07:51.100]  The thing to do is to realize that we have a community here.
[07:51.200 --> 07:56.920]  We have people that share a concern in various ways and we just need to build on that.
[07:57.060 --> 07:58.800]  We need to stick together, not be discouraged.
[08:00.060 --> 08:02.460]  And we need to show up on Inauguration Day in Washington, D.C.
[08:02.560 --> 08:03.480]  but that's something else.
[08:04.780 --> 08:07.300]  We had all kinds of election fun.
[08:07.720 --> 08:12.100]  Mike, I understand you had the least fun of all because you actually weren't permitted to vote normally.
[08:12.460 --> 08:13.360]  Tell us something about that.
[08:13.460 --> 08:18.180]  I think I actually got to have the most fun because I got to fill out all kinds of papers.
[08:19.000 --> 08:33.220]  I went to the polling place on Tuesday morning of last week and with my yellow card from the Board of Elections telling me where to go vote and I showed this to them and they looked up my name and I was not in the book.
[08:33.660 --> 08:39.900]  Now, that's what I don't understand because you've been receiving mail from these people and you just weren't there?
[08:40.020 --> 08:41.100]  You just weren't in the book?
[08:41.280 --> 08:43.720]  I was in the book last year in the same polling place.
[08:43.900 --> 08:52.800]  I haven't moved since then and I received mail from the Board of Elections but apparently I disappeared after the time they sent the mail but before the election.
[08:54.660 --> 08:58.600]  Well, if anyone else has received similar treatment we'd like to know about it.
[08:58.840 --> 09:09.300]  You can mail us OTH at 2600.com but it seems strange that this would happen and you know the only other cases I've heard of where it's happened has been to Green Party people.
[09:09.520 --> 09:17.160]  I've heard at least two other cases there's not very many but I have heard of other cases and they all involved Green Party and I believe you were registered with the Green Party is that correct?
[09:17.160 --> 09:23.580]  I am but I spoke with some folks in the Green Party and they say they haven't heard of anything systematic.
[09:24.200 --> 09:26.480]  Many other Green Party people did vote.
[09:26.900 --> 09:27.460]  All right.
[09:27.560 --> 09:29.620]  Well, there might be something special or whatever.
[09:29.920 --> 09:34.140]  Now, Bernie, I understand you had some research going on down there in Philadelphia with the voting machines.
[09:34.140 --> 09:39.680]  Well, actually, I think I was speaking with you on your other radio show off the wall.
[09:39.900 --> 09:40.160]  That's right.
[09:40.240 --> 09:54.760]  Just as I had finished voting here in Philadelphia on one of the electronic machines they have down here which is called the Denager Electronic with the elect part of it capitalized Electronic 1242.
[09:55.100 --> 09:55.880]  What's the first word?
[09:58.000 --> 10:01.900]  Denager is the company's name D-A-N-A-H-E-R Okay.
[10:02.080 --> 10:06.140]  And it's called the Electronic for elect 1242.
[10:07.360 --> 10:10.720]  And I think I've spoken about this machine on the air before.
[10:10.880 --> 10:28.680]  It's a big membrane touch panel and you with a printed overlay and you you push down on the names of the candidates you'd like to vote for and an LED lights behind them and then you press a big green button that says vote when you're done and you hear a beep and supposedly it's registered.
[10:29.460 --> 10:48.220]  And I did that again but this time I had a chance afterwards when I got to the polls around 6 o'clock at night it was empty there was nobody else there I was amazed I thought there'd be a huge turnout which was earlier in the day but at the end of the day there was nobody there but me so I had a chance to walk around behind the machine after I'd voted And it was all exposed.
[10:48.220 --> 10:54.680]  So I got to see all the error lights and indicators and all the things that could go wrong.
[10:54.680 --> 11:01.340]  All the idiot lights were labeled as to power loss, system failure, all these indications.
[11:01.660 --> 11:03.100]  But none of them were lit up, really.
[11:03.100 --> 11:12.820]  And I noticed there was a mechanical counter as well, which showed the total number of voters who had voted on a machine.
[11:13.260 --> 11:19.540]  But the mechanical counter did not tabulate how many people voted for whom.
[11:20.100 --> 11:28.720]  So I guess if the whole machine died, they'd at least know how many votes they lost, or how many voters' opinions they lost.
[11:28.720 --> 11:33.780]  Well, now, I heard on the way over here that Ralph Nader is demanding a recount of New Hampshire.
[11:34.480 --> 11:36.980]  And he has to pay for that if he's going to demand it.
[11:37.040 --> 11:42.640]  But what surprised me was the total amount is $2,000 to get a recount of New Hampshire.
[11:43.000 --> 11:43.620]  The whole state?
[11:43.760 --> 11:44.940]  That's not a bad deal, is it?
[11:45.060 --> 11:46.180]  So I'll pay for Ohio.
[11:46.220 --> 11:49.200]  I'd like to see, you know, exactly how many votes they really got over there.
[11:50.940 --> 11:54.300]  But yeah, the whole recount thing is kind of interesting in itself.
[11:54.960 --> 12:02.520]  I've heard a lot of talk about the electronic voting and how it sort of seemed to not feel real somehow.
[12:02.660 --> 12:06.200]  Now, Redbird, I believe you over in New Jersey, you tried an electronic voting machine.
[12:06.340 --> 12:06.460]  Right.
[12:06.740 --> 12:09.240]  And what kind of experience did you have?
[12:09.600 --> 12:14.660]  The machines were exactly the same as Bernie described, except we had a red button.
[12:15.080 --> 12:15.880]  Had a red button?
[12:15.980 --> 12:16.480]  Yes, we did.
[12:16.920 --> 12:18.280]  So, you know, same thing happened.
[12:18.280 --> 12:20.140]  When you push the button, the LEDs disappear.
[12:20.300 --> 12:20.620]  That's it.
[12:21.100 --> 12:21.560]  No beeps?
[12:21.860 --> 12:22.620]  No, no beeps.
[12:22.900 --> 12:23.020]  Uh-huh.
[12:23.480 --> 12:26.200]  Yeah, you know, without the beep, somehow you don't feel like you're really doing something.
[12:27.880 --> 12:31.460]  There's nothing like pulling that great big mechanical handle on the older machines.
[12:31.780 --> 12:31.960]  Yeah.
[12:32.100 --> 12:34.480]  I mean, that just feels like you're doing something.
[12:34.600 --> 12:35.620]  Well, you get a sense of power.
[12:35.720 --> 12:38.740]  You get a sense that you're actually, you know, casting a vote.
[12:38.800 --> 12:39.640]  It makes a lot of noise.
[12:39.700 --> 12:40.800]  Everybody knows he just voted.
[12:40.960 --> 12:42.240]  It's sort of an empowering feeling.
[12:42.400 --> 12:45.040]  But when you're just pressing buttons on the screen, they don't even go beep.
[12:45.520 --> 12:46.660]  You know, what have you done?
[12:46.660 --> 12:52.620]  So, the solution to all our e-voting woes is a couple of really loud wave files or something.
[12:52.660 --> 12:53.040]  Yeah, beeping.
[12:53.200 --> 12:54.180]  Beeping will solve everything.
[12:55.000 --> 12:55.640]  I don't know.
[12:55.920 --> 12:57.940]  Now, Redbird, you also took a picture inside the...
[12:57.940 --> 12:58.160]  Right.
[12:58.260 --> 13:00.720]  It was kind of difficult because of the way the machines are set up.
[13:00.840 --> 13:03.600]  And they had about two people watching each machine at any time.
[13:04.060 --> 13:05.180]  Two people watching one machine?
[13:05.180 --> 13:05.440]  Yeah.
[13:05.560 --> 13:06.440]  There were two people there.
[13:07.380 --> 13:07.580]  Wow.
[13:07.820 --> 13:09.820]  There was actually a little control panel on the side of the machine.
[13:09.820 --> 13:11.060]  I don't know exactly what was there.
[13:11.220 --> 13:12.400]  I didn't get a chance to take a look.
[13:12.560 --> 13:16.040]  But there was, you know, observers.
[13:16.700 --> 13:17.020]  Okay.
[13:17.120 --> 13:18.040]  But you were able to take a picture?
[13:18.280 --> 13:20.140]  Yeah, I was able to take a couple inside the machine.
[13:20.260 --> 13:21.100]  And did they come out okay?
[13:21.320 --> 13:21.980]  They were all right.
[13:22.260 --> 13:25.440]  It wasn't that great because, you know, the curtains didn't cover me completely.
[13:25.440 --> 13:26.520]  I didn't really want to get caught.
[13:26.660 --> 13:26.860]  Right.
[13:27.320 --> 13:29.860]  I took a picture inside mine, actually, because I knew you were going to do this.
[13:29.920 --> 13:31.840]  And I wanted to try it myself to see if I could get away with it.
[13:32.380 --> 13:36.160]  There was a guy very close to the booth I was in.
[13:36.320 --> 13:40.660]  And I just... I made it my mission to just somehow take a picture while I was in there.
[13:40.700 --> 13:42.520]  Because I'd find out if I was being watched somehow.
[13:42.520 --> 13:46.060]  And I'd find out if, you know, if it really is illegal to do this.
[13:46.080 --> 13:46.780]  I don't think it is.
[13:46.880 --> 13:47.580]  I don't think it's illegal.
[13:47.720 --> 13:48.800]  But they might not like it.
[13:49.880 --> 13:53.880]  And, yeah, I got a picture of the mechanical voting booth, which isn't all that interesting.
[13:56.860 --> 13:57.840]  The experience is pretty uneventful.
[13:58.540 --> 14:07.120]  Obviously, we want to know from listeners if anything happened to them, anything untoward, anything you might have noticed, please let us know, either by calling or writing to us.
[14:08.660 --> 14:09.700]  I was just in California.
[14:09.700 --> 14:11.300]  I just got back a couple days ago.
[14:11.600 --> 14:17.860]  And, you know, I got to tell you, traveling in this country is almost as crazy as traveling overseas now.
[14:18.000 --> 14:20.080]  You know, going through passport checks and that kind of thing.
[14:20.680 --> 14:27.860]  Both ways, going to Los Angeles and coming back from Los Angeles, I was selected once again.
[14:28.060 --> 14:28.700]  I was with a friend.
[14:28.880 --> 14:32.040]  And I think it's always when you're with a friend that this happens.
[14:32.040 --> 14:34.240]  Because when I go by myself, I don't seem to have a problem.
[14:34.760 --> 14:42.680]  But the last six times, literally, that I've gotten either traveled across the border or gotten onto an airplane, I have been selected for special screening.
[14:43.480 --> 14:49.060]  And I got to tell you, it gets kind of annoying after a while because they go through all your luggage.
[14:49.060 --> 14:53.480]  They go through, you know, they basically pat you down quite a bit.
[14:53.640 --> 14:54.860]  They ask you all kinds of questions.
[14:54.900 --> 14:55.880]  They're very nice.
[14:56.480 --> 15:01.020]  But it gets a little old after a while when they just keep picking the same people.
[15:01.140 --> 15:05.060]  Now, they picked a couple of other people, I guess, just to make it look like they were picking random people.
[15:05.160 --> 15:11.420]  But most of the people traveling just simply went through, you know, various metal detectors.
[15:11.420 --> 15:13.420]  I had to take my damn shoes off.
[15:13.640 --> 15:15.360]  I had to even take my belt off.
[15:15.420 --> 15:18.960]  And I was standing there trying to keep my pants from falling down there in the airport terminal.
[15:18.960 --> 15:20.600]  It was the most embarrassing thing in the world.
[15:22.740 --> 15:25.120]  And that's what they subject you to.
[15:25.240 --> 15:27.340]  Now, is there something about my appearance?
[15:27.340 --> 15:28.280]  I know I have long hair.
[15:28.440 --> 15:29.940]  Okay, you know, get over it already.
[15:30.120 --> 15:33.300]  You know, terrorists can wear suits and cut their hair.
[15:33.540 --> 15:34.760]  Yeah, newsflash.
[15:34.900 --> 15:35.500]  It can happen.
[15:36.200 --> 15:37.280]  I just don't get it.
[15:37.420 --> 15:40.420]  Why are the same people always targeted?
[15:40.780 --> 15:48.940]  Actually, it's a little-known fact that modern suits contain a device that causes them to disintegrate if the wearer is considering terrorism.
[15:49.700 --> 15:51.620]  Well, they were fascinated by my computer.
[15:51.840 --> 15:53.440]  They wanted to know, is this a computer?
[15:53.700 --> 15:55.500]  They said, yeah, you know, it's definitely a computer.
[15:55.620 --> 15:56.660]  But they didn't ask me to turn it on.
[15:56.680 --> 16:01.300]  They just wanted me to separate it from the rest of my luggage and put it in one of those little, you know, baskets.
[16:03.080 --> 16:04.000]  They do that now.
[16:04.000 --> 16:05.340]  I don't think it makes any sense at all.
[16:05.380 --> 16:06.620]  It doesn't make any sense to me.
[16:06.960 --> 16:07.640]  Did they sniff it?
[16:08.340 --> 16:09.300]  No, they didn't sniff it.
[16:09.380 --> 16:11.640]  They just ran it through, ran it through the x-ray machine.
[16:13.660 --> 16:15.340]  They didn't open my Altoids box.
[16:17.000 --> 16:18.080]  That's my acid test.
[16:18.180 --> 16:21.120]  I really had Altoids in it this time, but they simply put it through.
[16:21.300 --> 16:24.060]  But, you know, the most obvious thing they didn't check.
[16:24.360 --> 16:27.580]  Instead, they just checked people who they don't like the looks of.
[16:27.580 --> 16:31.080]  And what's interesting about this, the person...
[16:31.080 --> 16:32.280]  I took JetBlue over there.
[16:32.380 --> 16:35.900]  The person who flagged me both times was a JetBlue employee.
[16:36.880 --> 16:39.540]  As you walk in, this is the person you hand your ticket to.
[16:39.700 --> 16:41.580]  And they say, okay, you go there or you go there.
[16:41.700 --> 16:45.560]  And both times they told me to go to the place where I would be searched a lot more intensively.
[16:45.640 --> 16:47.360]  And they made that decision in a split second.
[16:48.000 --> 16:54.200]  So either there's something on my ticket that has already flagged me so they can make that instant decision.
[16:54.360 --> 16:57.180]  Or they just take one look at me and say, no, you're going over there.
[16:57.700 --> 16:58.820]  And that's the end of that.
[16:59.600 --> 17:04.940]  Do you happen to have your ticket numbers for all these flights where you've been tagged?
[17:05.140 --> 17:08.560]  Because perhaps they did what we did at Hope a few years back.
[17:08.740 --> 17:14.560]  In other words, they pick the winners by the last digit or pair of digits on the ticket number.
[17:14.720 --> 17:15.340]  It's possible.
[17:15.700 --> 17:16.240]  It's possible.
[17:16.240 --> 17:19.200]  That would explain the quick decision once they look at your ticket.
[17:19.620 --> 17:36.580]  Or if you're traveling with someone in the future, Emanuel, you might want to use your camera phone or whatever to photograph your ticket and your traveling companion's ticket before you get to the point where you might be selected or grabbed or misdirected.
[17:36.860 --> 17:41.800]  And then compare them later to see if there's any differences in the numbering scheme.
[17:42.260 --> 17:46.480]  You know, there might be a difference between your ticket and the person who was not pulled away for special treatment.
[17:46.700 --> 17:52.100]  What I really want to do is find tickets belonging to other passengers who weren't screened to see if there was any difference right there.
[17:52.500 --> 17:57.720]  Write up a survey form saying, hi, we're trying to determine how they're randomly picking people.
[17:57.900 --> 17:59.320]  And we noticed you were randomly picked.
[17:59.520 --> 18:01.560]  Could you enter these numbers on your ticket?
[18:01.700 --> 18:04.460]  None of these are credit card numbers, so don't worry about it, you know.
[18:05.040 --> 18:06.420]  We have a radio show.
[18:06.620 --> 18:08.920]  Here's proof that we have, you know, bona fides.
[18:09.140 --> 18:10.980]  Until they listen to the show, we'll be fine.
[18:11.040 --> 18:15.220]  And the thing is, you know, you can't pack a razor anymore unless you check it.
[18:15.280 --> 18:16.020]  And I don't check luggage.
[18:16.020 --> 18:19.760]  I usually just travel with a knapsack, which I guess is suspicious somehow.
[18:20.180 --> 18:21.300]  And so I couldn't take a razor.
[18:21.400 --> 18:25.180]  By the time I came back, I, you know, I had, I wasn't clean shaven anymore.
[18:25.480 --> 18:27.480]  So I guess that made me even more suspicious somehow.
[18:27.540 --> 18:27.820]  Get an electric.
[18:29.040 --> 18:29.360]  What?
[18:29.640 --> 18:31.120]  You can't take over an airplane with an electric?
[18:31.200 --> 18:31.780]  I guess you can't.
[18:34.660 --> 18:40.260]  In England, they're having also, they're also in trouble with x-ray machines that can see through passengers' clothes.
[18:40.440 --> 18:41.740]  They've actually implemented these.
[18:41.980 --> 18:44.440]  These have been deployed by security staff at Heathrow.
[18:45.020 --> 18:48.500]  And it's at Terminal 4, in case you want to experiment with it.
[18:48.700 --> 18:57.040]  It produces a naked image of passengers by bouncing x-rays off their skin, enabling staff instantly to spot any hidden weapons or explosives, among other things.
[18:57.660 --> 19:06.780]  The graphic nature of the black and white images it generates, including revealing outlines of men and women, has raised concerns about privacy, both among travelers and aviation authorities.
[19:07.500 --> 19:15.300]  In the United States, transport officials are refusing to deploy the devices until it can be further refined to mask passengers' modesty.
[19:15.800 --> 19:21.080]  The Terminal 4 trial is being conducted jointly by the British Airports Authority and Department for Transport.
[19:21.160 --> 19:23.240]  It became fully operational last month.
[19:23.240 --> 19:24.820]  It's intended to run until the end of the year.
[19:25.020 --> 19:31.040]  Its deployment has not been reported until now, since new security measures at airports are not normally publicized.
[19:33.080 --> 19:37.400]  Basically, passengers are picked to go through the body scanner on a random and voluntary basis.
[19:37.940 --> 19:41.040]  Those who refuse are subjected to an automatic hand search.
[19:42.040 --> 19:42.480]  Now...
[19:42.480 --> 19:43.580]  It's not voluntary.
[19:43.860 --> 19:45.060]  I don't think it's voluntary.
[19:45.500 --> 19:48.540]  You know, when I go through these things, it's never really...
[19:48.540 --> 19:50.280]  I'm never really given an option.
[19:51.760 --> 19:52.200]  But...
[19:52.200 --> 19:53.280]  How would you like to...
[19:53.280 --> 20:04.940]  How would you like to be the programmer whose job it's going to be to write the algorithm to recognize genitalia and other things that it's supposed to block out?
[20:06.080 --> 20:08.460]  Yeah, I guess they have to write some code to...
[20:09.020 --> 20:10.780]  I wouldn't want to have to write that code.
[20:11.000 --> 20:14.240]  I would, because I'd email the original pictures to myself.
[20:15.340 --> 20:16.140]  Right, all right.
[20:16.220 --> 20:16.520]  Well...
[20:16.520 --> 20:18.020]  By the way, it's not an x-ray, by the way.
[20:18.120 --> 20:20.240]  It's a millimeter wave radar.
[20:20.440 --> 20:25.420]  So you're not exposed to actual x-rays that could be harmful to you.
[20:25.420 --> 20:33.560]  You're exposed to lower frequency, you know, millimeter wave signals, which the jury is still out on whether they're harmful.
[20:33.600 --> 20:36.140]  But they're not the kind of radiation you get from x-rays.
[20:36.300 --> 20:38.180]  Well, here are a couple of comments that passengers had.
[20:38.300 --> 20:41.420]  I was quite shocked by what I saw, said Gary Cook.
[20:41.800 --> 20:43.760]  I felt a bit embarrassed looking at the image.
[20:43.920 --> 20:47.260]  A female passenger who didn't want to be named said, It was really horrible.
[20:47.440 --> 20:49.660]  It doesn't leave much to the imagination because you're virtually naked.
[20:49.980 --> 20:52.740]  But I guess it's less intrusive than being hand-searched.
[20:53.520 --> 20:55.280]  Well, you know, I was hand-searched.
[20:55.280 --> 20:58.260]  And it's funny because the guy was, like, explaining what he was doing as he was hand-searching me.
[20:58.320 --> 20:59.600]  Sir, this is the back of my hand here.
[20:59.600 --> 21:00.160]  I'm putting it there.
[21:00.580 --> 21:01.960]  It's like, yeah, I can see what you're doing.
[21:02.420 --> 21:04.360]  I guess people freak out or something like that.
[21:04.500 --> 21:10.080]  There have been a lot of complaints from women saying that these hand-searches are much like being groped.
[21:10.160 --> 21:17.040]  Yeah, well, I guess they are being groped if the people doing it are, you know, people that do that kind of thing.
[21:17.200 --> 21:22.120]  And a lot of TSA employees have been caught doing things they're not supposed to be doing, including stealing things.
[21:23.820 --> 21:26.560]  But, you know, the majority of people seem to support this.
[21:26.700 --> 21:28.640]  They seem to support this if it makes them safer.
[21:28.640 --> 21:31.540]  And I think it's just another intrusion into people's privacy.
[21:32.740 --> 21:34.580]  And, of course, you know it's going to be abused.
[21:34.740 --> 21:40.480]  You know these pictures are going to show up in the locker room of the TSA employees or whoever is doing this kind of thing.
[21:43.000 --> 21:44.960]  It's something I guess we'll see more of in the next four years.
[21:44.960 --> 21:50.840]  Or be part of your personal dossier with the Homeland Security Department.
[21:51.100 --> 21:51.780]  That's true.
[21:53.640 --> 21:56.880]  While going over there, of course, I had occasion to use the AirTrain.
[21:56.920 --> 21:58.140]  The AirTrain going to JFK.
[21:58.320 --> 22:03.360]  And that's five bucks right there if you get on or get off at Jamaica or Howard Beach.
[22:05.080 --> 22:10.300]  So that's another little MetroCard thing that we use for our collection of MetroCards.
[22:10.420 --> 22:13.320]  Which, by the way, I've got to admonish people because we're not getting enough of them.
[22:14.060 --> 22:15.760]  Redbird has been here the last several shows.
[22:15.760 --> 22:19.640]  And we've been asking people to send us MetroCards of various sorts.
[22:20.460 --> 22:24.140]  Not the standard MetroCard that, you know, you just buy at a MetroCard machine.
[22:24.380 --> 22:25.460]  We have enough of those.
[22:25.460 --> 22:29.820]  The kind that, say, a student card, a senior citizen card, an employee card.
[22:30.800 --> 22:31.500]  Any others?
[22:31.660 --> 22:32.240]  Without anything?
[22:32.380 --> 22:32.900]  That's about it.
[22:32.980 --> 22:33.360]  That's about it.
[22:33.420 --> 22:33.940]  The receipts.
[22:34.440 --> 22:35.980]  I want to get some receipts.
[22:36.140 --> 22:38.000]  I mean, if you can't send us the card, send us the receipt.
[22:38.100 --> 22:39.420]  That way we learn something about it.
[22:39.620 --> 22:41.100]  It's important to know these things.
[22:41.100 --> 22:44.600]  And we're trying to learn how the system works and share that information with everybody.
[22:44.600 --> 22:46.000]  But we need more information.
[22:46.600 --> 22:54.680]  Now, we got a letter from somebody who showed up at the last 2600 meeting to drop off a stack of various MetroCards about five centimeters thick.
[22:54.680 --> 22:57.660]  But you weren't there, nor was the gentleman who put the call out for them.
[22:57.860 --> 22:59.340]  I didn't want to give them to anybody else.
[22:59.440 --> 23:00.540]  Took me a great effort to get these.
[23:01.620 --> 23:02.400]  Signed, El Nerto.
[23:02.520 --> 23:04.480]  Well, sorry for... we weren't there at the meeting.
[23:04.920 --> 23:06.060]  This happens occasionally.
[23:06.320 --> 23:13.300]  And anybody else who showed up with MetroCards, you can either show up at the next meeting or you can mail them to 2600 P.O.
[23:13.360 --> 23:19.060]  Box 99 in Middle Island, New York, zip code 11953.
[23:20.320 --> 23:27.540]  And, again, any kind of MetroCard is... except for the commonly found ones, the ones that you find on the subway platforms.
[23:27.840 --> 23:31.460]  Those aren't of interest to us because we already pretty much have all the information on that.
[23:31.540 --> 23:35.080]  But a special kind of pass of any sort, that's something we're interested in seeing.
[23:35.180 --> 23:35.320]  Jim?
[23:35.480 --> 23:36.860]  Why couldn't they drop them off here?
[23:37.160 --> 23:37.920]  Is that possible?
[23:38.640 --> 23:38.960]  What?
[23:39.080 --> 23:40.420]  You mean run up to the station and drop them off?
[23:40.440 --> 23:41.700]  Yeah, I don't see any problems with that.
[23:41.700 --> 23:41.920]  Do you?
[23:43.120 --> 23:46.620]  Well, other than confusing people by giving out more than one address, I think we should keep it to one address.
[23:46.700 --> 23:46.860]  Okay.
[23:46.860 --> 23:47.460]  All right.
[23:48.600 --> 23:48.860]  P.O.
[23:48.880 --> 23:49.060]  Box...
[23:49.060 --> 23:50.620]  You just want to raid them yourself, don't you?
[23:51.320 --> 23:51.640]  No.
[23:51.880 --> 23:52.480]  Oh, yeah, sure.
[23:52.620 --> 23:53.120]  I have my own problems.
[23:53.120 --> 23:54.100]  Former transit employees.
[23:54.180 --> 23:54.940]  It never gets out of your blood.
[23:55.960 --> 23:57.600]  Again, the address, 2600 P.O.
[23:57.600 --> 24:00.300]  Box 99, Middle Island, New York, 11953.
[24:00.420 --> 24:02.880]  And if you're outside the United States for whatever reason, USA.
[24:04.760 --> 24:06.040]  Do not fold...
[24:06.040 --> 24:07.760]  No, don't fold, spindle, or mutile.
[24:07.900 --> 24:10.140]  Well, actually, Redwood, can you fold and spindle them?
[24:10.220 --> 24:10.700]  I think you can.
[24:11.060 --> 24:11.600]  Please don't.
[24:11.780 --> 24:12.300]  Yeah, don't.
[24:12.460 --> 24:14.080]  This makes our life a little more difficult.
[24:14.080 --> 24:19.060]  Now, we were on a bus before, and we were checking out the little signs that they have.
[24:19.240 --> 24:20.880]  If you're on a bus, all right, check this out.
[24:20.940 --> 24:21.580]  New York City bus.
[24:22.380 --> 24:26.180]  Right behind the driver's head, okay, it's in the passenger compartment.
[24:26.460 --> 24:28.460]  There are six little lights that light up.
[24:28.460 --> 24:34.440]  Every time somebody gets onto the bus, and they use a MetroCard, or they even pay with cash, one of those lights flashes.
[24:34.680 --> 24:38.120]  Now, I have no idea why the passengers get to see that.
[24:38.320 --> 24:40.300]  It's in case there's a transit cop on the bus.
[24:40.680 --> 24:42.060]  In case... explain this to me.
[24:42.140 --> 24:42.620]  Explain the logic.
[24:42.780 --> 24:47.700]  There could be an undercover transit cop on the bus who arrests people who evade the fare.
[24:48.680 --> 24:50.320]  So, wait, you're telling me...
[24:50.320 --> 24:52.360]  First of all, why don't you tell me what some of the signs say?
[24:53.040 --> 24:56.960]  There's one that says adult and senior, and I think there's a student one.
[24:57.140 --> 24:57.740]  I don't know.
[24:57.860 --> 25:00.300]  So, there's a cop who sits on the bus...
[25:00.300 --> 25:00.860]  Sporadically.
[25:01.100 --> 25:05.760]  ...watching that sign and looking for it to light up and say student when someone isn't the student.
[25:06.200 --> 25:06.440]  Yeah.
[25:06.440 --> 25:07.640]  And then he springs into action.
[25:07.840 --> 25:12.800]  Yeah, they'd much rather get that sort of thing rather than get somebody for not paying the fare.
[25:13.200 --> 25:15.880]  Not paying the fare isn't serious masquerading as a student.
[25:16.140 --> 25:17.160]  I have a question, though.
[25:17.480 --> 25:19.880]  Wouldn't the driver be able to tell that information just as readily?
[25:20.360 --> 25:20.620]  No.
[25:21.080 --> 25:21.580]  How come?
[25:21.580 --> 25:23.540]  I mean, he's seeing the person as they're coming onto the bus.
[25:23.660 --> 25:24.340]  He's seeing the person.
[25:24.480 --> 25:25.520]  He isn't seeing the readout.
[25:25.660 --> 25:26.200]  He sees...
[25:26.200 --> 25:29.580]  Let's suppose you map a student card onto a regular MetroCard.
[25:29.680 --> 25:29.880]  All right.
[25:30.240 --> 25:30.540]  All right.
[25:30.640 --> 25:32.520]  Higher tech than we are, but doable.
[25:33.420 --> 25:36.260]  So, to the driver, it looks like you're using a regular MetroCard.
[25:36.400 --> 25:39.300]  It beeps that it's a good ride.
[25:39.480 --> 25:39.620]  Right.
[25:39.680 --> 25:40.880]  But it doesn't say what sort of ride.
[25:40.880 --> 25:41.280]  Why not?
[25:42.320 --> 25:42.940]  Don't look at me.
[25:43.000 --> 25:43.700]  I didn't design this.
[25:43.840 --> 25:45.660]  Well, the driver can't be arresting people.
[25:45.720 --> 25:46.280]  He's going to drive.
[25:46.400 --> 25:47.100]  That's another good point.
[25:47.280 --> 25:50.400]  Well, yeah, but the driver does tell you to get off the bus if you don't pay the fare.
[25:50.400 --> 25:51.720]  That's my understanding.
[25:52.480 --> 25:55.740]  So, he is in charge of the bus, and he can always call for assistance or something like that.
[25:55.820 --> 25:57.060]  I mean, there's not a cop on every bus.
[25:57.740 --> 26:01.220]  The MTA is good about riding back to you if you ride to them.
[26:01.260 --> 26:01.860]  Why don't you ask them?
[26:01.960 --> 26:02.920]  Well, it just seems kind of weird.
[26:03.000 --> 26:04.340]  Let's say there isn't a cop on the bus.
[26:04.380 --> 26:06.940]  Then you're saying the driver has no way of knowing what the card is.
[26:07.240 --> 26:07.420]  Yeah.
[26:07.540 --> 26:08.540]  That seems like a silly system.
[26:08.660 --> 26:08.800]  Yeah.
[26:09.720 --> 26:10.080]  All right.
[26:10.140 --> 26:11.200]  My point has been made, then.
[26:11.460 --> 26:14.020]  What we're trying to find out, though, there was a light flashing today.
[26:14.160 --> 26:14.660]  What was it again?
[26:14.760 --> 26:15.840]  It was the bypass light.
[26:15.900 --> 26:17.140]  The bypass light was flashing.
[26:17.220 --> 26:18.360]  Do you know what the bypass light means?
[26:18.580 --> 26:18.860]  Nope.
[26:18.860 --> 26:19.900]  It's on the bottom right.
[26:20.260 --> 26:24.320]  If you look at this sign, it's right on the back of the driver's compartment in the six of the lights.
[26:24.420 --> 26:27.040]  Did you put in a MetroCard that had less than $2 on it?
[26:27.240 --> 26:27.540]  No.
[26:27.980 --> 26:28.800]  It wasn't our fault.
[26:29.220 --> 26:29.540]  No, no.
[26:29.540 --> 26:30.300]  I was just wondering.
[26:30.580 --> 26:33.720]  It was happening all throughout, and people were still getting on the bypass light kept flashing.
[26:33.740 --> 26:34.180]  I have no idea.
[26:34.300 --> 26:37.980]  We suspected the driver might have been bypassing the funds directly to a bank account.
[26:38.420 --> 26:38.720]  No.
[26:38.940 --> 26:39.520]  Not doable.
[26:40.580 --> 26:41.440]  That you know of.
[26:41.560 --> 26:41.640]  All right.
[26:41.820 --> 26:44.560]  Well, you know, that's part of the research we're doing into the system.
[26:44.620 --> 26:47.080]  We just want to know more about that and maybe what some of the other lights say.
[26:47.080 --> 26:54.260]  So far, we've seen adult, we've seen bypass, we've seen expert for transfer, and we don't know for sure what the other three say.
[26:54.700 --> 26:55.600]  One is employee.
[26:56.060 --> 26:56.660]  One is employee.
[26:56.820 --> 26:56.920]  Yeah.
[26:57.040 --> 26:57.480]  Oh, really?
[26:57.600 --> 26:57.780]  Yeah.
[26:57.780 --> 26:57.920]  Okay.
[26:58.560 --> 26:59.540]  And do they all beep differently?
[26:59.800 --> 27:00.080]  Different tones?
[27:00.080 --> 27:00.760]  I don't believe so.
[27:01.340 --> 27:03.320]  I've never noticed that, but I have a tin ear.
[27:03.460 --> 27:05.060]  I was on the Los Angeles subway.
[27:05.260 --> 27:05.700]  Have you heard of this?
[27:05.780 --> 27:07.000]  Los Angeles does have a subway.
[27:07.180 --> 27:07.240]  Yeah.
[27:07.240 --> 27:09.820]  It's pathetic, but it's interesting nonetheless.
[27:09.820 --> 27:15.160]  And they have a fare system that's almost European in nature where you don't go through a turnstile.
[27:15.300 --> 27:19.280]  You buy your ticket and then you walk onto the train and you're just supposed to have your ticket on you.
[27:19.380 --> 27:22.860]  And there's no token clerks, there's no machines, there's nothing like that.
[27:22.960 --> 27:23.780]  But you know what there is?
[27:24.060 --> 27:25.860]  On the trains, sheriffs.
[27:26.020 --> 27:30.220]  Sheriffs go through with guns and everything and they check your ticket occasionally.
[27:30.580 --> 27:37.740]  Now, I have to wonder, you know, the mindset of this, to have cops just do nothing but check fares on subways.
[27:37.940 --> 27:39.480]  Isn't that a bit of a waste of effort?
[27:39.720 --> 27:41.640]  What do you need the guns for, to start with?
[27:42.020 --> 27:45.120]  Let me tell you what I learned when I took German in college years ago.
[27:45.140 --> 27:47.980]  I learned about the Munich subway, which is a very similar system.
[27:48.320 --> 27:55.340]  And what they do in Munich, and I have no idea if LA is anything like this, if you don't have a valid ticket, you pay the fine then and argue it later.
[27:55.480 --> 27:59.280]  And the fine is much, much steeper than even the largest ticker.
[27:59.380 --> 28:01.460]  And that's how it is in a lot of cities, that's true.
[28:01.980 --> 28:05.900]  How it isn't, though, they don't have armed cops going through to check your ticket.
[28:05.900 --> 28:06.420]  They do in Munich.
[28:06.820 --> 28:07.380]  Armed cops?
[28:07.480 --> 28:08.760]  No, they have ticket agents.
[28:08.880 --> 28:09.060]  Really?
[28:09.220 --> 28:09.380]  Yeah.
[28:09.620 --> 28:10.760]  I had always heard it was police.
[28:11.660 --> 28:13.100]  I mean, you know, I don't understand it.
[28:13.140 --> 28:22.860]  If they're not going to hire ticket agents or turnstile people, then, you know, are they saving money by hiring cops that obviously, you know, qualified to do a lot more than...
[28:22.860 --> 28:24.760]  Well, maybe the cops are doing a lot more simultaneously.
[28:24.880 --> 28:27.920]  They're also, you know, a presence, a police presence on the train.
[28:28.160 --> 28:30.640]  Whereas if we had, like, the New York system, you'd have redundancy.
[28:30.760 --> 28:33.720]  You'd have the cops and you'd have the ticket agents or the token agents.
[28:34.180 --> 28:34.740]  Very weird.
[28:34.740 --> 28:36.120]  Yes, Leo, you have something to...
[28:36.120 --> 28:39.580]  I can't turn your microphone up because there's a box blocking the switch.
[28:39.580 --> 28:39.960]  I'm sorry.
[28:40.040 --> 28:41.360]  So you have to lean over and use that one.
[28:42.240 --> 28:49.640]  So in other words, you can ride for free on the Los Angeles subway when it's rush hour because the cops won't be able to fit into the train car.
[28:50.040 --> 28:53.020]  Well, if you want to test that theory out, you'd be my guest.
[28:53.380 --> 28:54.440]  Just like the L.A.R.
[28:54.860 --> 28:55.520]  It's cheap, though.
[28:55.600 --> 28:56.580]  It's only like $1.25.
[28:56.860 --> 28:59.320]  And I think a day pass is $3.
[29:00.060 --> 29:02.660]  It's a lot cheaper than Philadelphia, which is the $2.
[29:03.040 --> 29:11.640]  And by the way, last week in Philadelphia, I saw my first SEPTA is the transit agency in Philadelphia, the Southeast Pennsylvania Transit Authority.
[29:11.820 --> 29:20.940]  And on the subway train for the first time in the morning going to work, I saw my first SEPTA SWAT team officer.
[29:21.160 --> 29:31.120]  He was all decked out in black and jackboots, and he had the kind of funny hat that's curved down on the sides and leather straps and the whole nine yards.
[29:31.320 --> 29:33.080]  He definitely looked like a SWAT kind of guy.
[29:33.300 --> 29:35.660]  So I asked him, what does the SEPTA SWAT team do?
[29:36.180 --> 29:42.500]  And he started going on about, well, if all these things weren't happening around the world, we wouldn't have to have a SWAT team.
[29:42.620 --> 29:44.000]  And I said, what are you referring to?
[29:44.000 --> 29:49.240]  And then it turned out he was referring to, like, the Barcelona train bombings and things like that.
[29:50.120 --> 29:57.800]  So I guess they're there to prevent that or keep people from panicking if there is that or I don't know.
[29:57.900 --> 30:05.320]  But it was really unusual to see this, like, special SEPTA, you know, transit SWAT team guy.
[30:05.520 --> 30:06.480]  He was armed to the teeth.
[30:06.620 --> 30:11.200]  And he didn't have a machine gun, but he had a sidearm that was bigger than normal sidearms.
[30:11.400 --> 30:12.580]  Did he look like he was lost?
[30:12.980 --> 30:13.560]  No, no.
[30:14.020 --> 30:17.040]  Yeah, he looked like he knew right where he was and that's where he belonged.
[30:17.200 --> 30:19.040]  He looked actually rather angry.
[30:19.420 --> 30:21.820]  But maybe you're supposed to look angry if you're in a SWAT team.
[30:21.840 --> 30:25.220]  Yeah, I think having a pleasant smile on your face when you remember the SWAT team probably doesn't work.
[30:26.200 --> 30:26.960]  But who knows?
[30:27.220 --> 30:28.840]  He didn't like that I was asking him questions either.
[30:28.960 --> 30:29.840]  I'm sure he didn't.
[30:30.020 --> 30:30.720]  They usually don't like that.
[30:30.720 --> 30:31.500]  I was really friendly.
[30:31.700 --> 30:33.300]  I was just trying to make conversation.
[30:33.440 --> 30:34.760]  But he didn't want to make conversation.
[30:34.820 --> 30:36.500]  Yeah, they never want to talk.
[30:36.720 --> 30:37.220]  They never want to talk.
[30:37.260 --> 30:38.220]  That's no reason not to try.
[30:38.740 --> 30:40.820]  Anyway, here's a letter from a listener.
[30:40.960 --> 30:45.780]  On the last show during the discussion of reverse engineering the MetroCard system, there was a mention of U-cards.
[30:46.060 --> 30:50.860]  We're talking about the Chicago system now, which is identical in some ways to the New York City system.
[30:51.140 --> 30:55.160]  There seemed to be some question as to what the card was actually for, whether it was for a student or not.
[30:55.980 --> 30:57.560]  I saw an MTA worker the other day.
[30:57.680 --> 30:58.900]  He had his orange vest on.
[30:59.020 --> 31:02.940]  And on the front of the vest was a clear plastic pocket containing his worker's ID card.
[31:03.160 --> 31:05.000]  The ID card is shaped like a MetroCard.
[31:05.000 --> 31:07.420]  I assume it can be used by the employee to use the subway to get to work.
[31:07.540 --> 31:09.020]  It has the employee's picture on it.
[31:09.120 --> 31:14.280]  And this one had a big U on it as well, about the same size as the employee's picture, about one inch square.
[31:14.820 --> 31:20.580]  I have not had the opportunity to observe any other employee's IDs to see if letters other than U are used, but I'll keep my eyes open.
[31:20.660 --> 31:21.220]  Hope this helps.
[31:21.460 --> 31:21.800]  Signed, Jeff.
[31:21.920 --> 31:22.880]  Jeff, yes, it does help.
[31:23.380 --> 31:24.740]  Every little bit of information helps.
[31:24.740 --> 31:26.740]  So we learn more about how the system works.
[31:27.520 --> 31:30.200]  Okay, let's read a couple more pieces of email, then we'll take phone calls.
[31:30.300 --> 31:38.520]  212-209-2900 is our phone number if you have any thoughts on technology, the aftermath of the election, airport security, or whatnot.
[31:39.160 --> 31:42.340]  And again, our email address, OTH at 2600.com.
[31:42.340 --> 31:49.780]  If you're so inclined, you wish to write us instead, you can write to, off the hook, care of WBAI, 120 Wall Street, New York, New York.
[31:50.120 --> 31:52.700]  1-0-0-0-0-5 is the zip code.
[31:52.700 --> 31:54.960]  And again, that's in the United States of America.
[31:56.760 --> 31:58.580]  Gear off the hook, greetings from Mongolia.
[31:58.880 --> 31:59.200]  Whoa.
[31:59.420 --> 31:59.560]  Yeah.
[32:00.380 --> 32:01.500]  I think this is a first.
[32:01.680 --> 32:02.960]  I don't think we've ever gotten mail from Mongolia.
[32:03.100 --> 32:08.240]  And actually, I checked into this to make sure it really was Mongolia, and it comes from mongolnet.mn.
[32:09.100 --> 32:11.300]  So that's about as Mongolian as you can get, I think.
[32:11.400 --> 32:13.180]  .mn is the top level of the name of Mongolia.
[32:13.420 --> 32:14.240]  Not Minnesota.
[32:14.260 --> 32:15.280]  No, Mongolia.
[32:15.640 --> 32:16.500]  Big difference.
[32:18.500 --> 32:19.020]  Let's see.
[32:19.160 --> 32:20.040]  Another four years.
[32:20.160 --> 32:22.160]  Hey, I don't want to rant and rave about Bush, though.
[32:22.180 --> 32:23.320]  I'm just a little surprised.
[32:23.760 --> 32:25.920]  I'm writing because I'm a Halifax native.
[32:26.040 --> 32:27.420]  I'm really behind in my listening.
[32:27.660 --> 32:30.380]  I was really surprised hearing about Emmanuel and Mike's trip up there.
[32:30.700 --> 32:36.240]  I was surprised no one from Nova Scotia mentioned landmarks that may have been interesting to you guys, such as Alexander Graham Bell's Summer House.
[32:36.240 --> 32:36.840]  We saw that.
[32:36.980 --> 32:37.540]  We passed by that.
[32:37.660 --> 32:38.260]  Just didn't go in.
[32:39.400 --> 32:41.500]  And the museum in Badek.
[32:41.940 --> 32:43.120]  Yeah, that's the same place.
[32:43.260 --> 32:44.620]  That's where it is in Nova Scotia.
[32:44.680 --> 32:46.640]  And the AT&T Wireless Call Center in Dartmouth.
[32:46.640 --> 32:50.880]  Well, that didn't strike us as a place to go, but I guess maybe it was.
[32:51.720 --> 32:56.440]  It would have been interesting to talk to some of the disgruntled goons there who serve New York AWS markets.
[32:56.740 --> 32:59.800]  Anyway, next time you're in the area, hopefully locals will come out and show you around a little better.
[32:59.820 --> 33:01.040]  Well, we have lots of fun exploring.
[33:02.800 --> 33:05.080]  And thanks very much for writing from Mongolia.
[33:05.080 --> 33:06.720]  You don't explain why you're in Mongolia.
[33:07.100 --> 33:08.600]  He's in Halifax, Mongolia.
[33:08.780 --> 33:10.540]  I don't think there's a Halifax, Mongolia.
[33:10.700 --> 33:12.520]  Thanks, Todd, for sending that piece of mail.
[33:13.640 --> 33:14.680]  Here's another letter.
[33:15.140 --> 33:21.580]  If you or your listeners are as upset at Kerry for losing the most important electoral race in history, I suggest they contact him, as I did.
[33:21.660 --> 33:26.020]  He can be reached at the following email address, john underscore Kerry at kerry.senate.gov.
[33:26.760 --> 33:29.240]  They all have their name, .senate.gov?
[33:29.320 --> 33:29.900]  That's kind of cool.
[33:30.160 --> 33:32.260]  What happens after they lose a race?
[33:32.260 --> 33:33.840]  Do they keep that email address?
[33:34.040 --> 33:35.200]  That's an interesting question.
[33:35.360 --> 33:35.480]  Yeah.
[33:35.780 --> 33:36.640]  I think it goes away.
[33:36.940 --> 33:37.720]  You think it goes away?
[33:37.740 --> 33:38.120]  I don't think it should.
[33:38.120 --> 33:39.560]  You think it goes away, but you don't know for sure.
[33:39.980 --> 33:40.240]  Well...
[33:40.240 --> 33:41.740]  Moynihan.senate.gov.
[33:41.880 --> 33:42.120]  He's dead.
[33:42.420 --> 33:45.380]  I know he's dead, but the point is, is his email still being received?
[33:45.780 --> 33:50.060]  Well, we should find somebody who's out but alive, like John Edwards will be in a couple months.
[33:50.260 --> 33:51.220]  Edwards.senate.gov.
[33:51.220 --> 33:53.180]  What if there are two of them with the same last name?
[33:53.280 --> 33:54.260]  Edwards is a pretty common name.
[33:54.360 --> 33:54.720]  Well, wait a minute, wait a minute.
[33:54.780 --> 33:56.020]  Isn't that john underscore Kerry?
[33:56.280 --> 33:58.020]  At kerry.senate.gov.
[33:59.200 --> 33:59.560]  So...
[33:59.560 --> 34:00.820]  There's another Kerry, but he has an email.
[34:00.980 --> 34:01.300]  What's his...
[34:01.300 --> 34:02.740]  Run his email again.
[34:02.940 --> 34:05.900]  John underscore Kerry at kerry.senate.gov.
[34:06.080 --> 34:10.060]  So, John Edwards would be john underscore Edwards at edwards.senate.gov.
[34:10.100 --> 34:10.600]  We're learning, yes.
[34:10.640 --> 34:11.600]  Well, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute.
[34:11.680 --> 34:18.740]  So, what I'm saying is, let's try John Edwards in January after the new Senate comes in and see what we get.
[34:18.740 --> 34:21.020]  I understand what you're saying, but my point is, what if there are two Edwards?
[34:21.400 --> 34:23.260]  What if there's, you know, a Bill Edwards, too?
[34:23.800 --> 34:24.140]  You know?
[34:24.580 --> 34:25.860]  Well, it's already differentiated.
[34:25.860 --> 34:27.220]  They share the same machine as well.
[34:27.220 --> 34:27.900]  I would think so.
[34:27.960 --> 34:28.340]  Why not?
[34:28.780 --> 34:29.680]  These are virtual machines.
[34:29.700 --> 34:30.820]  Because they don't trust each other.
[34:30.860 --> 34:31.660]  These aren't real machines.
[34:31.740 --> 34:32.440]  These are virtual machines.
[34:32.620 --> 34:34.660]  It's run by the Senate, not by the...
[34:34.660 --> 34:38.860]  Anyway, this person would like us to pass a message a long time, Mr. Kerry.
[34:38.920 --> 34:41.800]  How disappointed you are that he handed the country over to that maniac for another four years.
[34:42.380 --> 34:44.320]  You know, how constructive is that, really?
[34:44.360 --> 34:46.520]  I mean, I'm sure he feels bad enough as it is.
[34:47.560 --> 34:48.880]  What are you going to tell the guy, you know?
[34:48.900 --> 34:49.480]  It could be fun, though.
[34:50.200 --> 34:53.000]  Even as a right-wing Republican, even I think that's malicious.
[34:53.540 --> 34:55.720]  Well, you just don't like Bush being described as a maniac.
[34:56.000 --> 34:56.480]  No, no, no.
[34:56.500 --> 34:59.200]  I think it's malicious to harass Kerry for...
[34:59.200 --> 35:00.120]  I mean, the guy gave it his law.
[35:00.140 --> 35:01.360]  Like, he's going to read his email.
[35:01.480 --> 35:04.120]  Like, he's going to sit down and open up, you know, pine or whatever.
[35:04.340 --> 35:09.560]  There's some sensitive secretary or intern reading it, and you're going to bug them off.
[35:09.640 --> 35:09.780]  Yeah.
[35:09.940 --> 35:11.720]  Try, like, a version of spam assassin.
[35:11.840 --> 35:13.900]  It's just going to weed out everything is what it's going to do.
[35:14.340 --> 35:16.920]  My tax dollar is being wasted if you spam that address.
[35:17.220 --> 35:17.460]  All right.
[35:17.460 --> 35:18.860]  Here's a letter from Michael.
[35:18.860 --> 35:20.120]  What is the problem with Americans?
[35:20.120 --> 35:25.380]  I mean, like, okay, if you're really wealthy, like top 2% wealthy, and on the greedy side, then sure, it makes sense to vote for Bush.
[35:25.480 --> 35:31.440]  But I'm perplexed, bewildered, mystified, and puzzled as to why any of the other 98% of Americans would even consider re-electing Bush.
[35:31.580 --> 35:32.720]  It's not in their best interest.
[35:32.760 --> 35:33.980]  It's not in the country's best interest.
[35:34.080 --> 35:35.520]  And it's not in the best interest of the planet.
[35:35.800 --> 35:37.840]  I think the dark days are upon us.
[35:39.180 --> 35:42.160]  Well, Jim, anything to say to that?
[35:42.920 --> 35:43.240]  Yeah.
[35:43.480 --> 35:44.260]  It seems somewhat horrified.
[35:44.260 --> 35:50.000]  I voted because, as I've said before, I don't think that any president can run the country completely into the ground.
[35:50.980 --> 35:56.440]  And that the things I disliked about Kerry were greater than the things I disliked about Bush.
[35:57.560 --> 36:01.320]  And the things I liked about each of them were pretty negligible in both cases.
[36:03.340 --> 36:09.340]  Well, we're certainly going to have a lot of ammunition to find out what we like and don't like about Bush in the next four years.
[36:09.760 --> 36:10.760]  Well, let's wait and see.
[36:11.280 --> 36:11.720]  Yeah.
[36:12.920 --> 36:18.220]  Dear off the hook, I do agree being fingerprinted and photographed when entering the United States is annoying and adds very little to security.
[36:18.360 --> 36:27.440]  However, I find the expedited removal provisions of the 1996 immigration reform far more troubling, and that's been around since long before September 2001.
[36:27.800 --> 36:34.360]  Under this law, a single immigration official at a port of entry can refuse to admit someone seeking to enter the country for any reason.
[36:34.600 --> 36:46.480]  The law does state a number of reasons why a person may be considered inadmissible, but they are so vague as to allow practically arbitrary, regardless of whether they have valid travel documents, which may include a valid U.S.
[36:46.560 --> 36:46.760]  visa.
[36:46.920 --> 36:55.420]  So far, this policy has been primarily targeted as supposed illegal immigrants rather than terrorist suspects and has been used against numerous travelers from other countries.
[36:55.420 --> 36:59.500]  So I guess that's something to be concerned with if you're traveling here from overseas.
[36:59.500 --> 37:01.280]  And again, that predates 9-11.
[37:02.560 --> 37:06.440]  Bernie, you have some information on a big merger that took place this week.
[37:06.520 --> 37:07.320]  What's this all about?
[37:07.700 --> 37:17.860]  Well, for those of us who still use pagers out there, and I'm one of them, the two biggest paging carriers in the United States will be merging.
[37:17.880 --> 37:19.180]  It's probably going to happen next week.
[37:19.320 --> 37:26.740]  The FCC and the partner of justice, who are looking into antitrust issues, both gave their thumbs up on this thing.
[37:27.340 --> 37:35.880]  So basically, it was Arch Wireless and MetroCall, these two big companies, and they're merging into something called USA Mobility.
[37:36.180 --> 37:37.360]  Now, I don't remember...
[37:37.360 --> 37:39.580]  I don't know if listeners remember about...
[37:39.580 --> 37:41.680]  Oh, it must have been a good five, six years ago.
[37:41.900 --> 37:44.660]  Do you remember that nationwide pager outage?
[37:45.360 --> 37:47.480]  I think it was back in 99 or so.
[37:47.480 --> 37:56.520]  It was a satellite, I think it was the Pan Amsat Galaxy 4 satellite, had gone out of orbit or something.
[37:57.100 --> 38:05.280]  And like 90% of all the pager service in the entire country, plus some audio feeds for radio stations like NPR, went down.
[38:05.680 --> 38:13.320]  And at the time, it was like 40 million paging subscribers, well, 90% of them, were disrupted for quite a while, for like a day or so.
[38:14.480 --> 38:25.280]  So my fear is that these two companies, when they merge their assets, physical assets, that it's just going to create less diversity in the network.
[38:25.580 --> 38:31.940]  And an outage like that is more likely to happen, because you don't have the redundancy of multiple systems.
[38:31.940 --> 38:34.140]  They're going to try to cut costs wherever they can.
[38:34.240 --> 38:35.320]  Plus, there'll be less competition.
[38:35.940 --> 38:37.980]  So, you know, prices might go up.
[38:38.140 --> 38:38.420]  I don't know.
[38:38.600 --> 38:41.080]  Do you know many people that still have pagers, Emmanuel?
[38:41.300 --> 38:42.260]  Well, you're one of them.
[38:42.260 --> 38:44.200]  I know a couple other people that do, but not very many.
[38:44.320 --> 38:47.580]  I used to have one myself, and I realized I'd never used the thing, so I got rid of it.
[38:47.640 --> 38:49.800]  But I had four phone numbers attached to it, which was kind of cool.
[38:50.460 --> 38:51.100]  It's my...
[38:51.100 --> 38:52.780]  I have more than one attached to mine as well.
[38:52.780 --> 38:59.740]  I use it as disposable numbers, or numbers I give to companies and people who I don't really want to talk with, but they can call and leave.
[38:59.940 --> 39:03.560]  Basically, it's an answering machine that tells me wirelessly.
[39:03.780 --> 39:05.260]  I don't even carry it with me all the time.
[39:05.360 --> 39:11.640]  But when I get home and see it's beeping, then I know somebody left me a message, and it doesn't bother me on my cell phone.
[39:11.640 --> 39:12.800]  They're non-urgent messages.
[39:13.220 --> 39:14.220]  So it's a handy thing.
[39:14.360 --> 39:17.520]  So it's more than the number you call that just beeps and you enter a phone number.
[39:17.560 --> 39:18.920]  You can actually leave a voice message as well.
[39:18.920 --> 39:22.920]  They can either enter their number, or the first they'll hear my voice greeting, saying, you know, whatever.
[39:23.120 --> 39:26.420]  And then they can leave me a voice message or punch in a number.
[39:27.160 --> 39:28.680]  And it's not traced to your location.
[39:28.680 --> 39:29.680]  It's a one-way device.
[39:29.680 --> 39:40.680]  And like a cell phone, it's basically a personal tracking device that, you know, the cell phone companies or the government can really find out where you are at any given moment as long as the phone is on that can't be done with one-way pagers.
[39:42.100 --> 39:43.520]  So another reason to have one.
[39:44.660 --> 39:45.020]  Yeah.
[39:45.160 --> 39:49.420]  Cell phones definitely are a map right to where you are.
[39:50.400 --> 39:51.120]  Kind of scary.
[39:51.420 --> 39:52.280]  And they leave breadcrumbs.
[39:52.400 --> 39:55.680]  So they can always go back and see where you are on a certain date by looking at the logs.
[39:56.500 --> 39:57.200]  That's true.
[39:57.880 --> 40:01.220]  And also we have some news concerning voice over IP.
[40:01.480 --> 40:02.840]  What's the latest development with that?
[40:03.340 --> 40:06.180]  Oh, people might have heard that there was a...
[40:06.180 --> 40:22.700]  The FCC made a decision that declared that Vonage, Vonage Holdings, that voice over IP company, you can basically plug a phone into your DSL or cable modem line through an interface and make phone calls, get a phone number.
[40:22.700 --> 40:30.120]  They ruled that voice over IP service is inherently interstate, not intrastate.
[40:30.940 --> 40:44.940]  And because it's more like an interstate service and not interstate, it really can't be effectively regulated by state public utility commissions without just unbelievable regulations.
[40:44.940 --> 40:53.140]  Because a lot of times Vonage doesn't know what state, you know, a Vonage user could be moving around.
[40:53.480 --> 40:59.340]  And, you know, so it's really impractical to regulate this voice over IP service at the state level.
[40:59.520 --> 41:00.840]  And there's all kinds of...
[41:00.840 --> 41:03.880]  States have traditionally used phone...
[41:03.880 --> 41:08.140]  People's phone accounts as a cash cow to tax for...
[41:08.140 --> 41:08.920]  Look at your...
[41:08.920 --> 41:12.420]  Everybody here who listens to the show has realized that, you know, there's...
[41:12.420 --> 41:14.380]  Your phone bill is full of all these extra taxes.
[41:14.820 --> 41:15.760]  There's like the...
[41:15.760 --> 41:17.040]  There's the...
[41:17.040 --> 41:20.760]  The E-rate tax, which turned into a big goondoggle, the whole E-rate program.
[41:20.960 --> 41:21.860]  E-9-1-1.
[41:22.200 --> 41:23.240]  All these other taxes.
[41:23.240 --> 41:25.140]  It's just a huge cash cow for the states.
[41:25.260 --> 41:28.880]  And frankly, I think they shouldn't be involved with that, with some of this aspect.
[41:29.240 --> 41:33.500]  The downside is it's not going to be regulated from the standpoint of...
[41:33.500 --> 41:36.900]  They won't have to comply with state laws where they work...
[41:36.900 --> 41:39.680]  Or carriers have to provide 9-1-1 service.
[41:39.860 --> 41:40.800]  So you may not...
[41:40.800 --> 41:43.560]  In the future, with Vonage, you may not be able to call 9-1-1.
[41:43.820 --> 41:47.480]  Well, I think the way it works is you call 9-1-1 and you don't actually get the police.
[41:47.620 --> 41:49.440]  You get some sort of call center or something.
[41:49.800 --> 41:52.000]  I think the same thing happens when you use cell phones.
[41:52.180 --> 41:53.020]  You're not getting the actual...
[41:53.020 --> 41:56.500]  When I called the police once on a cell phone, I got people who didn't even know where the streets were.
[41:56.500 --> 42:08.300]  When the full E-9-1-1 system is in place nationwide and seamless, they will know exactly where you're calling on the first call instead of forwarding you from a call center to the police.
[42:08.960 --> 42:15.300]  But what this decision about the FCC does is it really effectively regulates voice over IP service completely at the federal level.
[42:16.940 --> 42:26.760]  But then there's a law coming up for another re-vote again, or to be re-instituted, that's what I'm going to say, there's no new internet taxes.
[42:27.780 --> 42:38.740]  So anyhow, it just basically puts the whole jurisdictional issue with the voice over IP service out of the hands of the states, into the hands of the feds, and we'll see how they mismanage it.
[42:38.940 --> 42:40.320]  Yeah, that's what I'm thinking.
[42:40.520 --> 42:47.680]  You know, it's being treated as good news, and I just sort of have a lingering doubt that you're just, you know, using one entity instead of another.
[42:48.200 --> 42:52.000]  I don't know, I don't know if it's just buying time, or it's actually going to be any better.
[42:52.880 --> 43:00.980]  All right, 212-209-2900 is our phone number if you want to talk about any kind of computer systems or security, airport security or whatnot.
[43:01.200 --> 43:09.560]  Speaking of airport security, you notice how when you're at JFK, you've seen this, people wear the jackets and say JFK security, you know, the security people.
[43:09.980 --> 43:11.520]  What do you think they wear at LAX?
[43:13.040 --> 43:14.840]  Yeah, that's interesting.
[43:15.880 --> 43:17.900]  All right, that's my joke for the day.
[43:17.900 --> 43:18.680]  Good evening, you're on the air.
[43:19.320 --> 43:35.500]  Good evening, just in regards to Vonage and 911, and cell phone for that matter, what Vonage is setting up to do, they haven't quite done this completely yet, is the Vonage box gets listed with a specific location.
[43:35.760 --> 43:39.620]  Now, obviously, this doesn't help you if you've moved it somewhere else, like to Belgium with you.
[43:40.080 --> 43:40.560]  Right.
[43:40.560 --> 43:46.360]  But it will, if you punch in 911, give you the home 911 PSAP for that area.
[43:46.840 --> 43:53.920]  Again, that'll work in most cases for the 99% or so of people who don't carry it with them to Belgium.
[43:54.680 --> 43:55.120]  Right.
[43:55.180 --> 43:57.020]  Now, what if you have an area code, though, from a different city?
[43:58.380 --> 44:00.340]  It will still get the location, right?
[44:00.340 --> 44:04.060]  Yeah, it should, because it's going by location, the location you've given them for your billing and so forth.
[44:04.500 --> 44:10.140]  Now, in regards to cell phones, you're supposed to get the 911 in most of the country.
[44:10.720 --> 44:17.120]  You'll get the 911 center serving the geographical area where you're physically present with the cell phone.
[44:17.240 --> 44:21.060]  But, of course, you run into a lot of borderline areas, this being the radio, of course.
[44:21.380 --> 44:33.300]  If you pick up a cell phone in New York City, which I'm sure you're familiar with, and you're on the, say, the West Side Highway, you've got a 50-50 chance, although they're getting better now, of being picked up by Bergen County in New Jersey.
[44:33.520 --> 44:33.880]  Oh, dear.
[44:34.260 --> 44:35.420]  Yeah, well, it's not too bad anymore.
[44:35.560 --> 44:41.100]  They've all got direct tie lines to all the local neighborhood folks, so it's just a matter of a few extra seconds.
[44:41.720 --> 44:43.620]  And they'll kick you right to New York City.
[44:44.000 --> 44:52.380]  Now, every so often, though, this being radio, you'll get one of those weird radio things where you'll get picked up by a tower in Pennsylvania, and all bets are off.
[44:52.720 --> 44:53.260]  Oh, wow.
[44:53.500 --> 44:55.080]  But, in general, it works.
[44:55.080 --> 44:57.240]  Not always, but it's pretty close.
[44:57.500 --> 45:04.420]  Well, we don't suggest people dial 911 to find out what happens, but if you do have occasion to dial 911 and something strange happens, let us know.
[45:04.580 --> 45:04.760]  Yeah.
[45:04.860 --> 45:08.920]  Also, if you do use it from a cell phone, just in general, make sure they know where you are.
[45:09.020 --> 45:16.680]  Don't assume that, you know, they do, because, again, you may get the neighboring place, and if you simply say, I'm at 123, in front of 123 Main Street...
[45:16.680 --> 45:16.880]  Right.
[45:16.880 --> 45:20.220]  ...and, you know, make sure you get telling them which county or whatever you're in.
[45:20.640 --> 45:21.200]  All right.
[45:21.500 --> 45:21.740]  Take care.
[45:21.880 --> 45:22.380]  Thanks for your call.
[45:22.760 --> 45:24.220]  212-209-2900.
[45:24.660 --> 45:25.300]  And good evening.
[45:25.420 --> 45:25.640]  You're on.
[45:26.200 --> 45:26.520]  Yes.
[45:26.520 --> 45:29.960]  I have a question about radio, FM radio, that is.
[45:30.660 --> 45:32.540]  As, like, why you're on it, for one thing?
[45:32.780 --> 45:33.220]  No, no.
[45:33.340 --> 45:34.020]  I'm going to ask you...
[45:34.020 --> 45:34.740]  Because that's my question.
[45:35.080 --> 45:38.020]  Well, the question I have is that, can you...
[45:38.020 --> 45:42.780]  Can an FM radio station set the tone and treble and bass?
[45:43.060 --> 45:49.600]  In other words, I listen to a piece of music on, let's say, one, like, one of the commercial stations.
[45:50.000 --> 45:56.240]  And I listen to that same piece of music, like, maybe a day later, or even me on another station.
[45:56.500 --> 45:57.960]  The tone sounds a little better.
[45:57.960 --> 45:58.360]  Of course, yeah.
[45:58.760 --> 45:59.380]  Let me tell you something.
[45:59.460 --> 46:03.960]  What commercial stations do, what a lot of commercial stations do, they use heavy compression.
[46:04.300 --> 46:10.480]  And you can experiment with this just by going on the FM dial to right below K-Rock, which is 92.3.
[46:10.840 --> 46:13.800]  Go to 91.5, which is a station in Brooklyn.
[46:14.200 --> 46:20.320]  And if both of them have to be playing music at the same time, or both of them have to be talking at the same time, you will notice a dramatic difference in volume.
[46:20.820 --> 46:24.720]  The music, when you put music through compression, it sounds awful.
[46:24.840 --> 46:25.820]  It sounds terrible.
[46:25.820 --> 46:30.140]  Now, here at BAI, we use minimal compression because we're not trying to sound like the voice of God.
[46:30.140 --> 46:32.720]  We're not trying to blast you with commercials and things like that.
[46:33.160 --> 46:38.640]  And so that's why non-commercial radio stations in general tend to have better clarity for music.
[46:39.020 --> 46:44.700]  And the voices, the people speaking, might not sound as godly, but they sound more human.
[46:44.980 --> 46:45.480]  All right?
[46:45.560 --> 46:52.220]  So you definitely can send different kinds of signals over the FM airwaves and make music sound one way or another.
[46:52.220 --> 46:54.780]  So, yes, good question, by the way.
[46:55.360 --> 46:57.000]  And let that be the last one that you ask.
[46:57.080 --> 46:57.340]  Good evening.
[46:57.420 --> 46:57.860]  You're on the air.
[46:58.540 --> 46:59.300]  Oh, hello?
[46:59.540 --> 46:59.760]  Yes.
[47:00.120 --> 47:01.640]  Hi, my name is Melissa.
[47:01.640 --> 47:02.620]  I'm calling from Brooklyn.
[47:02.620 --> 47:11.300]  And I wanted to tell my story of airport security because last February, my boyfriend and I flew from New York to New Orleans.
[47:12.100 --> 47:17.420]  And when we were going through at LaGuardia, and it wasn't JetBlue, it was U.S.
[47:17.520 --> 47:21.480]  Airways, he was selected for that special search.
[47:21.480 --> 47:23.580]  And fortunately, it took only about five minutes.
[47:23.580 --> 47:24.700]  It was right there.
[47:24.820 --> 47:29.000]  But when we compared tickets, his had an S on it.
[47:29.180 --> 47:38.600]  And I can't for the life of me remember where it appeared, but we, you know, could put them side by side, and there was a flagging.
[47:38.780 --> 47:39.840]  Let me ask you a question.
[47:39.860 --> 47:41.440]  You were traveling with him.
[47:41.800 --> 47:41.940]  Yes.
[47:41.940 --> 47:43.940]  Now, were you next to him when he was selected?
[47:44.560 --> 47:45.040]  Yes.
[47:45.220 --> 47:46.140]  And you weren't selected?
[47:46.140 --> 47:56.740]  No, because, I mean, at the time that the tickets were printed, when we, you know, were checking in, that would be when the S had appeared.
[47:56.900 --> 47:57.100]  Right.
[47:57.260 --> 47:58.200]  So that's when we got to security.
[47:58.500 --> 48:01.060]  You know, the deal was sealed.
[48:01.360 --> 48:02.420]  Where did the S appear?
[48:02.560 --> 48:03.120]  It was after your...
[48:03.120 --> 48:04.360]  I just can't remember.
[48:04.660 --> 48:06.740]  But was it on, like, a reservation number or something?
[48:08.260 --> 48:08.620]  I...
[48:09.460 --> 48:09.820]  It...
[48:09.820 --> 48:10.160]  Maybe.
[48:10.500 --> 48:10.740]  Okay.
[48:10.740 --> 48:11.220]  I don't know.
[48:11.360 --> 48:21.060]  But, but interestingly, when we got to New Orleans and we were picking up the bags that we had checked, my bag had been selected for a special search.
[48:21.220 --> 48:30.420]  Like, when I picked it up, it had a tag on it that said, you know, this bag has been opened and searched, and sure enough, the zippers weren't lined up the way they had been.
[48:30.560 --> 48:32.700]  So it was, it was kind of strange.
[48:33.540 --> 48:35.240]  These tickets, did you buy them together?
[48:36.660 --> 48:40.300]  Yeah, on, you know, cheap tickets or one of those online.
[48:40.300 --> 48:40.840]  Through a website?
[48:41.160 --> 48:42.060]  Yes, through a website.
[48:42.060 --> 48:45.840]  You were sitting together, you bought them together, you paid for them with the same credit card or whatever?
[48:46.040 --> 48:46.200]  Mm-hmm.
[48:46.200 --> 48:49.120]  When you got your boarding pass, did you get that through a machine or through a human?
[48:50.340 --> 48:52.540]  It was last February, so I don't remember.
[48:52.760 --> 48:53.120]  Ah, okay.
[48:53.120 --> 48:55.720]  But, you know, it would have been right at the same moment.
[48:56.500 --> 48:56.860]  Okay.
[48:57.040 --> 48:57.860]  Or one after the other.
[48:58.080 --> 49:02.120]  Well, if this happens again to you, or if this happens to anyone else, please let us know.
[49:02.140 --> 49:04.660]  And if you can, photocopy your tickets and send us a copy.
[49:04.760 --> 49:04.920]  Sure.
[49:04.920 --> 49:15.660]  And actually, I wanted to ask, would a Montreal subway pass and a San Francisco subway pass, would you be interested in those for the other project?
[49:15.660 --> 49:15.680]  Sure.
[49:16.380 --> 49:19.260]  Anything that you have, that'd be, you know, anything would be great.
[49:19.420 --> 49:22.220]  Yeah, I mean, there might be something in there that we can learn something from.
[49:22.420 --> 49:22.760]  Okay.
[49:22.900 --> 49:26.900]  Do you know what they look like, at all like the New York City subway MetroCards?
[49:27.260 --> 49:35.500]  Well, only in that they're the same size and plasticized, and they have a, you know, a sensitized band on the rear.
[49:35.760 --> 49:36.100]  Okay.
[49:37.180 --> 49:37.960]  Okay, thanks.
[49:38.180 --> 49:38.740]  Send it on in.
[49:38.800 --> 49:39.000]  Thanks.
[49:39.200 --> 49:39.320]  Bye.
[49:40.180 --> 49:42.360]  All right, 212-209-2900.
[49:43.180 --> 49:44.020]  And good evening.
[49:44.100 --> 49:44.380]  You're on.
[49:45.150 --> 49:47.760]  Hello, this is Barbara from New Jersey.
[49:48.040 --> 49:48.740]  How you doing?
[49:49.040 --> 49:49.960]  Fine, fine.
[49:50.140 --> 49:52.900]  And it's a long time since I spoke to you.
[49:53.480 --> 49:56.420]  I want to ask a question regarding Channel 25.
[49:56.920 --> 49:57.280]  Okay.
[49:57.600 --> 50:10.580]  Have you noticed that since June, they've been tending to go off the air approximately either at midnight or somewhere thereafter?
[50:10.720 --> 50:11.900]  You're talking about WNYE?
[50:12.280 --> 50:12.560]  Yes.
[50:12.560 --> 50:13.820]  They go off the air.
[50:13.960 --> 50:20.220]  I remember when Channel 25 used to go off the air at 9 o'clock in the evening, and they only broadcast in black and white, but that was way back.
[50:21.120 --> 50:22.640]  Jim, you seem to have some information on this.
[50:22.720 --> 50:22.840]  Yeah.
[50:22.960 --> 50:25.420]  Does this happen about 10 minutes after midnight almost every night?
[50:25.620 --> 50:25.960]  Yes.
[50:26.180 --> 50:26.860]  Yes, practically.
[50:27.080 --> 50:42.700]  I've heard that they are shutting down for maintenance and for various installation, various transmitters on the Empire State Building, because since 9-11, almost everything possible is up there, because, gee, the World Trade Center ain't there no more.
[50:43.680 --> 50:51.160]  And much is taken over by an antenna in Alpine, New Jersey, originally run by Edward Armstrong, the inventor of FM.
[50:51.600 --> 50:58.940]  And a lot of stations are too far out of range for a lot of people in the metropolitan area for this.
[50:58.940 --> 51:01.280]  I lose a few stations.
[51:01.460 --> 51:04.460]  I lose Channel 2 fairly badly, and I'm in Bay Ridge, Brooklyn.
[51:04.760 --> 51:05.920]  Yeah, same happens here.
[51:06.440 --> 51:10.940]  Well, you know, there's a big hole in that theory, though, because I think WNYE broadcasts out of Brooklyn.
[51:11.600 --> 51:12.640]  Off of Brooklyn?
[51:12.640 --> 51:14.240]  I think there are antennas at King's College.
[51:14.980 --> 51:15.900]  I'm not too sure.
[51:16.140 --> 51:16.380]  All right.
[51:16.540 --> 51:17.720]  Well, that's something that...
[51:17.720 --> 51:18.740]  Leo, do you know something about this?
[51:18.800 --> 51:19.540]  Lean up to the microphone.
[51:19.900 --> 51:20.940]  You call them.
[51:21.180 --> 51:21.960]  I got the phone number.
[51:22.180 --> 51:23.160]  Well, let's not call them.
[51:23.300 --> 51:24.540]  If you have fax, let us know.
[51:24.960 --> 51:26.100]  Anybody can look up a phone number.
[51:26.660 --> 51:27.120]  All right.
[51:28.940 --> 51:32.320]  Hopefully, we can provide you with some information there.
[51:32.320 --> 51:32.540]  Good evening.
[51:32.620 --> 51:32.960]  You're on the air.
[51:34.140 --> 51:34.540]  Hi.
[51:34.960 --> 51:40.820]  I've got a question about recovering a conversation from a telephone.
[51:41.260 --> 51:41.560]  Okay.
[51:41.820 --> 51:43.220]  Recovering a conversation from a telephone.
[51:43.420 --> 51:44.900]  Yeah, I just want to know if it's possible.
[51:45.360 --> 52:04.240]  My bank, Chase Bank, they pulled a scam on me and basically said that they sold me a payment protection plan, and I disputed it, and they said that, well, we have a conversation of you that proves that you wanted this.
[52:05.440 --> 52:10.680]  And they sent me a letter, and I called them, and they played the conversation for me.
[52:10.860 --> 52:14.300]  The only thing is, they played a three-second soundbite of the conversation.
[52:15.180 --> 52:17.720]  And I said, well, I'd like to hear the rest of the conversation.
[52:17.880 --> 52:20.600]  And they said, well, legally, we don't have to play that for you.
[52:20.780 --> 52:23.100]  What was it that they played for you?
[52:23.120 --> 52:23.720]  What were you saying?
[52:24.180 --> 52:25.000]  I said yes.
[52:25.460 --> 52:26.460]  Is that all they played?
[52:27.580 --> 52:30.180]  Well, this guy asked me a question, and I said yes.
[52:30.680 --> 52:31.040]  Okay.
[52:31.200 --> 52:32.780]  And I recall the conversation.
[52:32.980 --> 52:35.340]  It happened last August, so it was quite a while ago.
[52:35.360 --> 52:40.540]  But I recall in the conversation that they wanted him to send me a payment protection plan.
[52:41.200 --> 52:43.080]  And I said, okay, you can send that to me.
[52:43.180 --> 52:48.640]  And then he did a little fast talking and said, well, you know, in order to send it to you, we have to charge you for it.
[52:49.340 --> 52:52.860]  And then I said, well, in that case, you can just send me some information.
[52:52.860 --> 52:54.000]  I don't think I want it.
[52:54.840 --> 52:58.580]  Now, did he use the word send when he spoke?
[52:59.260 --> 53:03.020]  I think he said... and it's hard for me to remember.
[53:03.300 --> 53:09.740]  And they took the one little soundbite, three seconds, out of the context of the conversation, which was probably five minutes.
[53:10.120 --> 53:13.300]  Well, I mean, they should certainly have the entire conversation there.
[53:15.220 --> 53:15.580]  Gosh.
[53:15.700 --> 53:16.580]  They have the entire conversation.
[53:16.740 --> 53:18.620]  And I asked, I said, well, I want to hear the rest of the conversation.
[53:18.640 --> 53:22.640]  Because I remember distinctly at the end of the conversation that I said, I don't want this.
[53:22.760 --> 53:23.740]  I don't want to buy anything.
[53:23.740 --> 53:24.840]  I don't want you to send me anything.
[53:25.040 --> 53:30.160]  Well, I mean, it seems weird that they wouldn't play the rest of it for you unless they have something that they don't want you to hear.
[53:30.520 --> 53:32.760]  Well, that's exactly why they didn't want to play it for me.
[53:32.800 --> 53:34.320]  Because I said, I want to hear the rest of the conversation.
[53:34.440 --> 53:36.460]  They said, well, we legally don't have to play that for you.
[53:36.900 --> 53:39.640]  I think a lawyer is more in order than a hacker.
[53:41.020 --> 53:49.460]  First of all, unless you've recorded it, it would be well-nigh impossible for you or someone on your end to retrieve this.
[53:49.900 --> 53:50.140]  Yeah.
[53:51.040 --> 53:52.540]  How many people have you talked to at Chase?
[53:54.300 --> 54:04.500]  I spoke to quite a few people before I ever got to the point where I probably had to call them a half a dozen times before they ever actually sent me a letter and let me listen to the conversation.
[54:05.100 --> 54:05.160]  Okay.
[54:05.300 --> 54:07.780]  Now, needless to say, they've canceled this policy by now, right?
[54:08.280 --> 54:10.400]  Yes, they canceled it, but they didn't refund my money.
[54:10.580 --> 54:10.900]  Uh-huh.
[54:11.260 --> 54:13.560]  They charged me like $500.
[54:14.080 --> 54:15.180]  That's how much it cost?
[54:15.680 --> 54:16.460]  My God.
[54:16.580 --> 54:20.960]  Yeah, it was $50-something a month, and I was in Southeast Asia at the time, so I never saw a statement.
[54:21.160 --> 54:21.400]  Uh-huh.
[54:21.400 --> 54:25.120]  And I'm pretty lax about checking online, and I just never imagined I came back and...
[54:25.120 --> 54:27.260]  I think a lawyer is definitely in order.
[54:27.360 --> 54:29.500]  A lawyer and definitely letting people know about it.
[54:29.500 --> 54:35.360]  Calling a radio station is definitely a good step, and if you have access to the net, putting up a webpage, describing what happened, they don't like that.
[54:35.440 --> 54:37.760]  They don't like when people start talking about how they rip people off.
[54:37.760 --> 54:40.220]  I wanted to go to Live at Five or something, but I don't have the conversation.
[54:40.580 --> 54:42.320]  I didn't have anything to back me up, you know?
[54:42.420 --> 54:43.800]  That's why a lawyer could...
[54:43.800 --> 54:45.680]  But neither do they, you see.
[54:45.740 --> 54:55.320]  The thing is, going to a TV station that does one of these shame-on-you type things, it's a good idea if they buy the story that they're not letting you hear the conversation.
[54:55.460 --> 55:02.860]  What you have to do is present it in that perspective, not that you don't have the information, that they have the information, and they refuse to share it.
[55:03.280 --> 55:07.000]  You know, then all of a sudden, it makes it look like they're trying to hide something, which it sure sounds like they're doing.
[55:07.320 --> 55:08.340]  Well, they definitely are.
[55:08.700 --> 55:08.820]  All right.
[55:08.820 --> 55:20.020]  Oftentimes, these scripts, these sales scripts, are written to be very deceptive and confusing, so that you really think you're saying yes to something that is not meaning you're buying it.
[55:22.340 --> 55:25.000]  They even admitted that to me on the phone.
[55:25.100 --> 55:27.960]  They said, you'll have to listen very close, because he talks very fast.
[55:28.340 --> 55:28.980]  I said, yeah, he sure does.
[55:28.980 --> 55:29.740]  Yeah, they do that on purpose.
[55:30.460 --> 55:31.560]  Yeah, it was on purpose.
[55:31.720 --> 55:36.260]  Well, that's a good thing to have on tape, too, if you hear them saying that, that the guy talks really fast and you have to listen carefully.
[55:36.260 --> 55:37.360]  But here's the thing.
[55:37.440 --> 55:44.900]  If you can somehow trick them, maybe through another person, into reading the same script, then you might have them on the way it's being phrased.
[55:45.080 --> 55:49.860]  And if you can get more people who have also been, you know, been victimized by this...
[55:49.860 --> 55:56.380]  I think a website is in order, in addition to the lawyer, and we would certainly love to propagate the address of that site.
[55:56.480 --> 56:00.280]  Yeah, because that way you get other people who have gone through the same thing, and they'll contact you.
[56:00.780 --> 56:01.920]  Well, I'm not very computer or...
[56:01.920 --> 56:04.420]  You might want to contact the Federal Trade Committee and also...
[56:06.260 --> 56:06.380]  What?
[56:07.660 --> 56:11.840]  I said, I'm not very web or computer savvy, so I had a website.
[56:12.120 --> 56:19.460]  But I'd be glad to send you guys a copy of this letter they sent me, and you could probably call them and listen to the conversation yourself, or play it on the air or something.
[56:19.600 --> 56:21.220]  You mean they'll let anybody listen to the conversation?
[56:21.640 --> 56:25.440]  Well, I asked them, I said, can I hear this conversation again if I call back?
[56:25.560 --> 56:26.080]  And they said yes.
[56:26.420 --> 56:26.660]  Uh-huh.
[56:26.680 --> 56:29.560]  So we could get on a three-way call or something like that, and you could probably hear it.
[56:30.040 --> 56:30.320]  Okay.
[56:30.820 --> 56:33.980]  Well, you know, definitely interested in more information on this.
[56:34.080 --> 56:39.040]  And if any other callers or listeners have had similar things happen to them, write to us.
[56:39.100 --> 56:40.980]  Let us know, and we'll see if this is a common thing.
[56:41.160 --> 56:43.540]  Well, maybe somebody will hear it on your show, and they'll call in about it.
[56:43.560 --> 56:47.020]  It was Chase Bank, and it was the Payment Protection Plan scam.
[56:48.120 --> 56:49.380]  Payment and Protection Plan scam.
[56:49.380 --> 56:49.660]  Okay.
[56:49.720 --> 56:50.520]  Well, we'll keep that in mind.
[56:51.140 --> 56:53.280]  Thanks for the info, and best of luck with that.
[56:54.280 --> 56:55.920]  And Bernie, do you have any advice on this?
[56:55.920 --> 57:01.080]  I was just, I'm sorry, my cell phone is delayed by like a quarter of a second, so it sounds like I'm rudely interrupting.
[57:01.440 --> 57:02.540]  I don't know any better.
[57:03.440 --> 57:16.560]  I was going to suggest that he contact the Federal Trade Commission as well, who regulates things pertaining to things being sold over the phone with interstate companies like Chase Bank.
[57:16.560 --> 57:19.060]  Yeah, that's definitely a good place to start.
[57:19.420 --> 57:21.520]  And they're located in Washington, D.C.
[57:21.700 --> 57:24.660]  Look them up in the phone book, or just go to ftc.gov, I believe, right?
[57:25.020 --> 57:28.240]  Yeah, and they're fairly consumer-friendly, surprisingly.
[57:29.160 --> 57:29.460]  All right.
[57:29.480 --> 57:30.920]  Well, I would hope they would be in the business they're in.
[57:31.300 --> 57:33.460]  Well, you never know these days, like the Department of Labor, eh?
[57:33.940 --> 57:35.200]  Yeah, yeah, that's certainly true.
[57:35.560 --> 57:37.020]  Well, guys, we're out of time for this week.
[57:37.100 --> 57:38.300]  We'll be back again next week.
[57:38.420 --> 57:40.840]  Again, our address, OTH at 2600.com.
[57:41.020 --> 57:44.380]  And if you have those MetroCards, please send them to us, 2600, P.O.
[57:44.400 --> 57:47.340]  Box 99, Middle Island, New York, 11953.
[57:48.480 --> 57:53.160]  We'd love to hear from you as far as any stories having to do with technology or security or things like that.
[57:53.160 --> 57:58.360]  Until next week, Emmanuel Galstain, for everyone else, have a good night.
[58:11.170 --> 58:15.010]  We'll be right back.
[58:38.260 --> 58:49.250]  It's payy, balayay, I'm a fool of the past.
[58:51.530 --> 58:59.830]  With my souvenirs, I lit the fire, my chagrins, my pleasures.
[59:01.090 --> 59:08.750]  I have no need to balay the love with their tremolo.
[59:08.750 --> 59:16.570]  Balayé pour toujours, je repars à zéro.
[59:18.470 --> 59:22.730]  Non, rien de rien.
[59:24.530 --> 59:28.310]  Non, je ne regrette rien.
[59:29.610 --> 59:36.570]  Ni le bien qu'on m'a fait, ni le mal.
[59:36.570 --> 59:38.970]  Tout ça m'est bien égal.
[59:43.060 --> 59:44.780]  Rien de rien.
[59:46.600 --> 59:50.100]  Non, je ne regrette rien.
[59:50.100 --> 01:00:03.680]  Car ma vie, car mes joies, aujourd'hui, ça commence avec toi.