[00:00.000 --> 00:07.360]  As we reported in the headlines, today is World AIDS Day and FSRN kicks off a special series looking at the state of the pandemic across the world.
[00:07.580 --> 00:20.580]  More than 2 million people are now living with HIV AIDS in Latin America and the Caribbean, including an estimated 250,000 people who contracted the disease in the last year, as FSRN's Matt Goldin reports from Buenos Aires.
[00:20.920 --> 00:27.860]  The countries with higher levels of AIDS in the region are Haiti, Guatemala, Dominican Republic and Honduras.
[00:28.000 --> 00:38.300]  In these countries, it's no longer confined to what's used to call vulnerable populations, such as homosexual men, sex workers, drug users and so on.
[00:38.440 --> 00:40.920]  It's now threatening the general population.
[00:41.180 --> 00:44.060]  The director of the Westped Foundation, Pedro Kant.
[00:46.260 --> 00:53.260]  Argentina, Brazil, Costa Rica, Chile, Cuba are the countries that provide medical treatment through a comprehensive program.
[00:53.680 --> 00:56.840]  The rest of the countries are in an extreme situation.
[00:56.900 --> 01:00.980]  We have many people who don't know they are infected by HIV.
[01:01.400 --> 01:05.400]  The most vulnerable people are young women and poor people.
[01:06.540 --> 01:11.780]  In Haiti, AIDS has been the principal cause of adults' death since the early 90s.
[01:12.040 --> 01:22.100]  In 2001, more than 30,000 individuals have died as a result of AIDS, and more than 200,000 children have lost one or both parents.
[01:22.100 --> 01:30.480]  Honduras is the epicenter of the epidemic in Central America, where nearly 50% of HIV cases were reported in the region.
[01:30.760 --> 01:45.800]  According to an annual report released last week by the World Health Organization, there are currently 130,000 individuals living with HIV in Argentina, and 20% of them are women, much less than the average in Latin America.
[01:49.200 --> 01:54.480]  The most affected groups are women in their reproductive years.
[01:54.700 --> 01:59.980]  The sudden increase was because prevention measures were not taken to avoid the contamination of women.
[02:00.800 --> 02:05.180]  Physiologically, women have a much higher risk of infection during sex than men do.
[02:05.500 --> 02:13.360]  As of yet, a vaccine does not exist, and the only thing we have is a primary prevention tactic, and that does not exist either.
[02:13.660 --> 02:21.180]  Women and girls also know less than men about how HIV is transmitted, often because this information is denied to them.
[02:21.400 --> 02:25.880]  Poverty, ignorance and discrimination are the deepest rooted problems of all.
[02:26.180 --> 02:33.220]  In many poor countries, people suffer an equal access to education and medical care, which thus places them at risk.
[02:33.360 --> 02:45.160]  Still rapidly growing, the epidemic is reversing development gains, robbing millions of their lives, widening the gap between rich and poor, and undermining social and economic security.
[02:45.480 --> 02:51.040]  Reporting for Free Speech Radio News, this is Matt Goldeen and Sula Warken from Buenos Aires, Argentina.
[02:51.340 --> 02:54.540]  AIDS also continues to ravage the African continent.
[02:54.780 --> 03:01.320]  In 2003, 2.2 million Africans died of AIDS, while an estimated 3 million contracted the HIV virus.
[03:01.560 --> 03:09.620]  This brought the total number of people living with the virus on the continent to about 25 million, according to Dr. Deepar Fernandes.
[03:14.650 --> 03:15.790]  And thank you very much.
[03:16.030 --> 03:21.470]  It's 7.01, and that means it's time for Off the Hook.
[03:26.900 --> 03:28.060]  You know what else it's time for?
[03:28.120 --> 03:28.840]  A new CD player.
[03:36.320 --> 03:39.320]  You know, last week I forgot the theme, and it sounded much better than this.
[03:40.100 --> 03:40.740]  Oh, boy.
[03:41.840 --> 03:44.860]  Okay, well, it's off the hook, on the air, somehow.
[03:47.840 --> 03:49.740]  And hopefully we'll have a better theme next week.
[03:51.500 --> 03:52.340]  And good evening to everybody.
[03:52.500 --> 03:53.860]  Emmanuel Goldstein here with you.
[03:54.060 --> 03:55.660]  Bernie S., are you down there in Philadelphia?
[03:56.500 --> 04:00.380]  Yes, I'm down here in the middle of a large oil slick.
[04:01.180 --> 04:03.080]  Well, what are you doing in the middle of an oil slick, Bernie?
[04:03.160 --> 04:05.420]  Well, I'm not actually in the middle of it, but it's out my front window.
[04:05.600 --> 04:09.200]  Hundreds of thousands of gallons have leaked out of an oil tanker into the Delaware River.
[04:09.200 --> 04:09.960]  Oh, dear.
[04:10.380 --> 04:12.340]  And there's a massive cleanup going on.
[04:12.420 --> 04:13.000]  It's really bad.
[04:13.660 --> 04:14.260]  I'm sorry.
[04:14.360 --> 04:15.580]  I'm happy to hear about the cleanup.
[04:15.700 --> 04:16.820]  I'm sorry to hear about the spill.
[04:16.960 --> 04:17.760]  That's awful.
[04:17.960 --> 04:18.900]  I didn't hear about that on the news.
[04:19.500 --> 04:21.900]  It's not being widely reported, apparently.
[04:22.040 --> 04:23.580]  You sound really bummed out about this.
[04:23.840 --> 04:24.440]  I am.
[04:24.560 --> 04:25.760]  Plus, I'm sick on top of that.
[04:25.900 --> 04:27.220]  So maybe I'm just sick about it.
[04:27.440 --> 04:27.800]  Yeah.
[04:28.500 --> 04:28.900]  Wow.
[04:28.900 --> 04:28.980]  Wow.
[04:29.840 --> 04:34.540]  Well, apart from oil spilling outside your window, any other news to report to us?
[04:35.740 --> 04:42.120]  There is a few things I sent to the rest of the group earlier in the week, but we'll get to those.
[04:42.120 --> 04:42.560]  Okay.
[04:43.320 --> 04:48.180]  Well, I know there was something involving the Wi-Fi plan in Philadelphia.
[04:48.640 --> 04:50.220]  There was a development on that.
[04:50.600 --> 05:05.440]  Philadelphia and Verizon Communications struck an agreement Tuesday that would allow the city to provide wireless Internet access as a municipal service, even if Governor Ed Rendell signs legislation to give Verizon the power to scuttle the project.
[05:05.580 --> 05:06.640]  Do you want to tell us what that's all about?
[05:06.920 --> 05:13.380]  Well, the governor did sign the bill, apparently, but it can go on anyway.
[05:13.380 --> 05:19.240]  The way the wording of the bill was that the municipalities could not make any money.
[05:19.420 --> 05:22.920]  They could not charge for the Wi-Fi service if they offered it.
[05:22.920 --> 05:32.740]  But the legislation was crafted so that this exception only existed for Philadelphia and not for any other municipality in the state of Pennsylvania, which is really strange.
[05:33.760 --> 05:49.700]  Quicktown, which is up near Allentown, they put in a broadband, not wireless, but fiber-based broadband network for its residents, offering it at a much lower broadband Internet access at a much lower cost than commercial providers.
[05:49.700 --> 05:59.420]  And I'd like to see this happen both, you know, by fiber and cable and wireless on a community basis more than a corporate basis.
[05:59.420 --> 06:04.060]  But it looks like the Verizon and other companies are trying to prevent that from happening.
[06:04.880 --> 06:05.180]  Amazing.
[06:05.360 --> 06:06.900]  Not surprising, but amazing nonetheless.
[06:08.120 --> 06:08.520]  All right.
[06:08.580 --> 06:09.480]  Thanks for that update, Bernie.
[06:09.780 --> 06:12.840]  And there's another update I'd like to bring people.
[06:12.840 --> 06:18.560]  And, of course, that was concerning the RNC trials that are taking place right now.
[06:18.780 --> 06:27.160]  As you may or may not know, I was one of the 1,800 or so people arrested during the period that the RNC was in town.
[06:27.320 --> 06:40.100]  My particular case took place on 16th Street between Irving Place and Union Square East, where several hundred people were arrested just for standing on the sidewalk.
[06:40.100 --> 06:41.020]  I had my day in court.
[06:41.180 --> 06:43.520]  I finally had my day in court on Monday.
[06:44.680 --> 06:46.440]  And it was really kind of interesting.
[06:46.560 --> 06:49.500]  I saw how a lot of people were being rescheduled to December 20th.
[06:49.560 --> 06:52.680]  And that kind of annoyed me because I wasn't planning on being around on December 20th.
[06:52.760 --> 06:55.100]  And they weren't exactly being asked if it was convenient for them.
[06:55.180 --> 06:57.620]  They were just told, yeah, you've come here twice already.
[06:57.620 --> 07:00.380]  Come back December 20th because the city isn't ready.
[07:01.460 --> 07:03.240]  So I was ready for that to happen.
[07:04.380 --> 07:08.820]  There was this break in the courtroom, some kind of five-minute break.
[07:08.980 --> 07:13.920]  And before everybody had a chance to come back in, including the lawyers, my name was called.
[07:13.920 --> 07:15.000]  And I went up.
[07:15.000 --> 07:21.720]  I figured I had to open up that little door that gets you into the exclusive area where all the lawyers and judges and court reporters hang out.
[07:21.780 --> 07:23.940]  You have to sort of unhook something and close it behind you.
[07:25.040 --> 07:31.980]  And I just heard somebody, one of the prosecutors, say the city moves to dismiss this.
[07:32.140 --> 07:34.960]  And the next thing I heard was a voice telling me, you're free to go.
[07:35.060 --> 07:36.080]  And it's over.
[07:36.120 --> 07:36.680]  You can leave.
[07:37.300 --> 07:38.720]  And nobody saw this.
[07:38.760 --> 07:39.780]  It happened so quickly.
[07:40.100 --> 07:43.000]  I expected it to be rather quick.
[07:43.020 --> 07:45.980]  But I thought at least there'd be a conversation of some sort back and forth.
[07:46.100 --> 07:47.180]  There was nothing.
[07:47.440 --> 07:48.640]  And nobody saw it.
[07:48.640 --> 07:54.280]  And I just, I went out into the hallway and I just kind of sat there on the bench expecting something to happen.
[07:54.420 --> 07:56.460]  I didn't get a piece of paper or receipt or anything.
[07:57.020 --> 08:00.420]  And finally, some of the lawyers came back and I said, hey, get a letter of this.
[08:00.520 --> 08:03.140]  I apparently was dismissed without having to do anything.
[08:03.900 --> 08:06.580]  And they're like, wow, that's awfully strange.
[08:06.600 --> 08:07.240]  That's kind of unusual.
[08:09.100 --> 08:11.020]  So I really, I honestly didn't know what to do.
[08:11.220 --> 08:13.720]  And fortunately, they had a task for me.
[08:13.800 --> 08:18.600]  I could serve as a witness for some other cases since the city has been using my videotape.
[08:18.640 --> 08:24.220]  As evidence against a lot of protesters, it hasn't been working very well at all for them.
[08:24.720 --> 08:34.260]  We have with us one of the volunteers for the National Lawyers Guild, Jeff Senter, who has been doing an amazing amount of work along with so many other people down there.
[08:34.760 --> 08:35.740]  Jeff, welcome to the studios.
[08:36.140 --> 08:36.720]  Hello, thank you.
[08:36.720 --> 08:49.520]  And I really got to say that I don't think we would have had so many people getting the treatment they've been getting as far as not being prosecuted even further, were it not for the efforts of you guys.
[08:49.840 --> 08:50.980]  Well, thank you very much.
[08:50.980 --> 08:56.380]  I mean, it's a very large team of volunteers for the National Lawyers Guild.
[08:56.380 --> 09:14.640]  I mean, you have lawyers doing hundreds, maybe even thousands of hours of pro bono work, as well as people like myself who are not lawyers, who are legal workers or just volunteers, helping review evidence, helping coordinate, helping people in court find their lawyers.
[09:16.460 --> 09:21.200]  All sorts of people, law students, videographers, many, many different people.
[09:21.340 --> 09:27.580]  And it's been a tremendous volunteer effort, and a real community has formed, and a lot of people have come together to put this all together.
[09:27.800 --> 09:34.700]  Yeah, and there are hundreds of people down there now, not at this moment, but volunteering for National Lawyers Guild in one capacity or another.
[09:34.900 --> 09:37.540]  A large number of people have really come out for this.
[09:37.660 --> 09:37.920]  Oh, yeah.
[09:37.920 --> 09:42.180]  Yeah, I mean, in terms of lawyers, I think that there's probably a hundred or more.
[09:42.380 --> 09:55.980]  And in terms of, it's very difficult to count the number of different volunteers, because you have so many people who come in to review evidence of their own situation, whether it be tapes or, you know, notes or look for witnesses.
[09:55.980 --> 09:59.880]  And then, you know, they stick around for a few more hours or come back tomorrow and help out some more.
[10:00.040 --> 10:03.780]  And I mean, people are very responsive and very eager to help out.
[10:04.320 --> 10:06.080]  Now, Mike, you were in court, too.
[10:07.240 --> 10:14.220]  Actually, part of the problem of being a witness is that I wasn't allowed to witness the actual trial that I was a witness for.
[10:14.220 --> 10:17.240]  So I had to sit down in the hallway again while the trial went on.
[10:17.420 --> 10:20.000]  I got gypped out of so many trials.
[10:20.240 --> 10:21.460]  I wasn't able to see my own.
[10:21.500 --> 10:23.920]  I wasn't able to see the one that I was a part of.
[10:23.960 --> 10:26.620]  I wasn't able to see another one because I was waiting to be part of the other one.
[10:27.480 --> 10:34.320]  But you saw a good part of the trial on Monday that I turned out to be a witness for on Tuesday morning.
[10:34.320 --> 10:38.620]  Yeah, and unless you're a real big fan of idiocy, you didn't miss all that much.
[10:38.760 --> 10:39.760]  I am a big fan of idiocy.
[10:39.920 --> 10:42.200]  Well, then you might have wanted to be there.
[10:42.840 --> 10:44.240]  It was just...
[10:45.100 --> 10:52.000]  First of all, they seem to be using a lot of these cases as a sort of almost training program for new assistant district attorneys.
[10:52.620 --> 10:56.920]  So I had actually watched another trial in addition to the one on Monday.
[10:57.400 --> 11:02.000]  And they just have these new district attorneys who really don't know what they're doing yet.
[11:02.000 --> 11:04.900]  That's a rather harsh indictment there.
[11:05.100 --> 11:07.180]  You sure that's really how it is?
[11:07.240 --> 11:08.860]  These people don't know what they're doing?
[11:08.980 --> 11:10.380]  They're completely new?
[11:10.760 --> 11:15.620]  In addition to that, they have no evidence against the accused.
[11:17.660 --> 11:19.560]  So I watched on Monday.
[11:19.760 --> 11:22.020]  They interviewed two police officers.
[11:22.320 --> 11:29.480]  The first police officer never saw the defendant at any time ever until they were both in court on Monday.
[11:30.440 --> 11:35.380]  So he gave kind of like this broad overview of what had happened on August 31st.
[11:35.600 --> 11:51.140]  And then they had a second officer who testified that he had arrested the defendant and had done so, but was just so totally confused, didn't know west from east, couldn't tell Irving Place from Union Square East, didn't know the north from the south,
[11:51.360 --> 11:53.940]  didn't know 7 o'clock from 9 o'clock.
[11:53.940 --> 11:55.760]  It was just a terrible mess.
[11:56.080 --> 12:03.860]  And this was the evidence, the alleged evidence, to try and convict someone.
[12:04.080 --> 12:12.620]  Now, I took the stand yesterday morning in the case of this woman who was also on 16th Street between Union Square East and Irving Place.
[12:13.280 --> 12:16.440]  And they, as you say, they had so many facts wrong.
[12:17.120 --> 12:21.300]  They had her being arrested on the south side of the street when, in fact, she was on the north side of the street.
[12:21.420 --> 12:22.840]  You know, things you really think they would get right.
[12:23.760 --> 12:33.780]  And not to mention the fact that they picked a defendant who, literally, you could not find anything that was even the least bit suspicious.
[12:33.780 --> 12:39.320]  You know, no bad history of any sort, no comments ever made, no bad thoughts.
[12:40.300 --> 12:47.580]  You would think that they would go for the people that they could at least try and tarnish in some way, but there was just no way this person could be tarnished.
[12:47.700 --> 12:49.860]  She was simply out walking with a friend.
[12:49.940 --> 12:51.480]  She was curious about the ban.
[12:51.620 --> 12:56.520]  She followed the ban onto 16th Street and wasn't allowed to leave.
[12:56.780 --> 12:58.440]  And all the evidence supported that.
[12:58.440 --> 13:03.800]  Now, they kept asking, this is what happens when you're in front of a DA, a prosecutor.
[13:05.560 --> 13:07.900]  You're asked to say what time this happened.
[13:08.060 --> 13:11.500]  And I kept saying, you know, I can only give approximations here.
[13:11.640 --> 13:14.380]  I wasn't watching the clock while I was filming.
[13:14.780 --> 13:16.460]  You know, I can say it was light out.
[13:16.520 --> 13:18.980]  I think it was around 7 o'clock, a little after 7 o'clock.
[13:19.580 --> 13:21.380]  And they just kept coming back to that.
[13:21.540 --> 13:22.120]  They kept coming back.
[13:22.120 --> 13:23.980]  So, was it 7.15 or 7.20?
[13:24.780 --> 13:26.880]  As if that is really what matters here.
[13:26.880 --> 13:39.720]  And the other thing they did, which I thought was incredible, was they implied that since I wasn't able to see both ends of the street simultaneously, both barricades, that it's quite possible, likely, in fact, that people were being let go by the police.
[13:39.820 --> 13:42.020]  The police were letting people leave who wanted to leave.
[13:42.260 --> 13:45.780]  They asked me, well, how did you know that they weren't letting people leave?
[13:46.020 --> 13:48.820]  I said, well, the crowd was staying the same size.
[13:49.040 --> 13:51.740]  I had just been on one side of the street and saw the barricade there.
[13:51.900 --> 13:53.300]  I had seen the barricade on the other side of the street.
[13:53.320 --> 13:54.500]  Now, I was in the middle of the street.
[13:55.020 --> 13:59.380]  And plus, the people all around wanted to leave and nobody was being allowed to go.
[13:59.480 --> 14:01.680]  And that was what everybody was talking about.
[14:02.020 --> 14:04.040]  And they asked, well, how many people did you talk to?
[14:04.120 --> 14:06.180]  Well, probably maybe a dozen, two dozen.
[14:06.460 --> 14:10.240]  Would you say that's a small percentage of the total number of people there?
[14:11.020 --> 14:14.580]  The total number of people you polled did not really represent what was actually happening.
[14:14.700 --> 14:17.180]  And the judge really wasn't having any of this.
[14:17.360 --> 14:20.960]  He realized that they were just leading everybody in a wild goose chase.
[14:21.460 --> 14:25.100]  I guess, Jeff, this is typical of how they do things like this.
[14:25.180 --> 14:30.780]  They try to confuse the witness and dwell upon little points that really aren't relevant.
[14:31.040 --> 14:33.740]  Well, I also have not been able to witness that many trials.
[14:33.940 --> 14:35.500]  But from what I've heard...
[14:35.500 --> 14:36.240]  Because you're a witness, too.
[14:36.380 --> 14:42.260]  Yeah, because I maybe sometimes call it as a witness as well because I was there observing.
[14:43.400 --> 14:45.320]  Many, many people were, of course, witnesses.
[14:45.660 --> 14:48.700]  I mean, we're talking about hundreds of people were witnesses.
[14:48.700 --> 14:52.720]  And so, you know, there's a possibility that the defense may want somebody as a witness.
[14:52.720 --> 14:54.420]  So you can't...
[14:54.420 --> 15:00.660]  With the rules that they have in place, you can't sit for most of the trial until you're definitely not going to be called.
[15:03.340 --> 15:24.560]  To let everyone understand that the situation at 16th and Irving on August 31st in the evening, what has been broadly described in court and in the civil suit that's complaint that's been filed, and I work as a paralegal for Moore and Goodman, which filed this class action civil suit,
[15:25.040 --> 15:32.660]  the street was blocked off, basically, from approximately Union Square East to Irving Place.
[15:34.340 --> 15:41.600]  And within almost the entirety of the street, barricades were elected along both sides.
[15:41.600 --> 15:50.840]  And there were two to three hundred, maybe even a little more than three hundred people inside of that area that was blocked off.
[15:51.000 --> 15:56.620]  And I have yet to hear of anybody in that area that was not arrested.
[15:56.640 --> 16:01.440]  And I know that somebody who identified themselves as with the New York Times was arrested.
[16:01.620 --> 16:03.860]  I know that legal observers were arrested.
[16:05.980 --> 16:11.520]  So they really have a very difficult situation in attempting to prosecute this.
[16:11.660 --> 16:12.680]  Now, I'm not a lawyer.
[16:12.900 --> 16:14.160]  Of course, I must qualify.
[16:14.360 --> 16:29.660]  But a common witness or stand buyer or anybody who goes to court can sort of look and say, now, what are they going to be able to do to show beyond a reasonable drought that this person was committing a crime?
[16:29.660 --> 16:35.440]  In particular, they're charging people with disorderly conduct, which is a very, very minor charge.
[16:35.440 --> 16:37.680]  It's a violation, not a crime.
[16:37.840 --> 16:40.780]  And also parading without a permit, which is another violation.
[16:40.960 --> 16:45.740]  These violations are like parking tickets in terms of the level of crime.
[16:45.840 --> 16:47.420]  They're not a misdemeanor and they're not a felony.
[16:47.540 --> 16:50.320]  Not the kind of thing you have to get fingerprinted for like everybody was.
[16:50.740 --> 16:51.760]  It's not required.
[16:52.020 --> 16:53.060]  No, it's not required.
[16:53.780 --> 16:58.480]  Although it seems to be a common policy by the police department going off on another angle.
[16:58.480 --> 17:03.480]  But you've got people and you're charging them there with...
[17:03.480 --> 17:05.460]  There's different parts of the disorderly conduct.
[17:05.800 --> 17:12.100]  And one part is obstruction of pedestrian or vehicular traffic, paraphrasing.
[17:12.460 --> 17:16.920]  Another is failing to obey a lawful order to disperse.
[17:18.040 --> 17:21.160]  Now, let's go first to the lawful order to disperse.
[17:21.160 --> 17:24.600]  Now, first, the police have to give a lawful order to disperse.
[17:26.500 --> 17:30.000]  And then there has to be the ability for the person to disperse.
[17:31.600 --> 17:33.200]  Now, the judges...
[17:33.200 --> 17:37.520]  There have been a number of these trials now for this incident of 16th and Irving.
[17:37.620 --> 17:40.860]  And they have not gone well for the prosecution.
[17:40.860 --> 17:42.360]  They've been generally acquittaled.
[17:43.520 --> 17:48.840]  Because what has been found thus far is that there was...
[17:48.840 --> 17:54.820]  When you have the entire place blocked off, you cannot have anywhere to disperse to.
[17:55.600 --> 17:59.220]  Particularly when you have a large number of people enclosed in such a small area.
[17:59.720 --> 18:03.320]  Then obstructing pedestrian or vehicular traffic.
[18:03.460 --> 18:08.380]  Now, if it's blocked off, where's the traffic?
[18:08.380 --> 18:08.900]  Mm-hmm.
[18:11.960 --> 18:14.660]  So, there's been a number of judges that have taken a look at this.
[18:14.940 --> 18:21.920]  And, you know, there's yet to have been, I think, any judge that has strongly supported what the prosecution's claimed.
[18:22.060 --> 18:22.400]  Yes, Bernie.
[18:22.840 --> 18:26.620]  I was going to say, you could argue that the police were the ones who were obstructing the traffic.
[18:26.640 --> 18:32.080]  Not the protesters or the marchers or the people who were just standing there.
[18:32.180 --> 18:35.740]  That's one of the points I made, that the road was blocked by the police.
[18:35.740 --> 18:41.100]  And, in fact, you see in the video, they were using my video, and I don't know what they were thinking they were going to find from that.
[18:41.480 --> 18:45.580]  You can see quite clearly that police in scooters were driving through the crowd.
[18:45.680 --> 18:47.180]  And the crowd was not stopping them.
[18:47.240 --> 18:48.440]  They were able to proceed.
[18:48.440 --> 18:51.120]  There was no bad feeling there.
[18:51.200 --> 18:52.600]  People were walking nice and slowly.
[18:54.300 --> 18:59.460]  So, you know, nothing they were saying really was having any kind of impact on the judge.
[19:00.680 --> 19:04.760]  And what's very interesting about this, though, was the tactic that the DA took.
[19:04.760 --> 19:09.120]  Look, the DA actually was about to drop the... not drop the case, but finish.
[19:09.460 --> 19:10.520]  You know, close it out.
[19:10.860 --> 19:12.480]  Rest, I guess, is the right word.
[19:12.980 --> 19:15.400]  When somebody from the stands...
[19:15.400 --> 19:20.280]  There weren't very many people in the courtroom, but there was one person sitting there, and he whispered something to the DA.
[19:20.700 --> 19:23.220]  And the DA started to have a conversation with this person.
[19:23.220 --> 19:27.320]  And the judge basically said, Do you want to talk to your supervisor a little bit before you arrest the case?
[19:28.080 --> 19:29.840]  And the DA said, Yes, thank you, Your Honor.
[19:30.020 --> 19:31.960]  And we had a little break for about five minutes.
[19:32.080 --> 19:35.060]  And then when we came back, his tone had changed.
[19:35.260 --> 19:38.420]  Apparently, his supervisor told him to start attacking my credibility.
[19:38.420 --> 19:41.520]  So he asked me all about, What kind of magazine do you publish?
[19:42.100 --> 19:44.120]  What kind of people read your magazine?
[19:44.620 --> 19:50.920]  And they basically were trying to say, Because you publish a hacker magazine, therefore, anything you say is going to be suspect.
[19:50.920 --> 19:54.380]  And, of course, you must have some kind of agenda.
[19:55.140 --> 19:57.620]  They asked about the 2600 website.
[19:57.620 --> 20:01.320]  They said, Is there any political content on that website?
[20:02.640 --> 20:04.260]  How do you answer a question like that?
[20:04.340 --> 20:05.580]  What is political?
[20:05.700 --> 20:09.080]  The judge really wouldn't let that proceed any further because it was completely irrelevant.
[20:09.080 --> 20:11.660]  Not to mention the fact that the lawyer was objecting to all of this, too.
[20:12.620 --> 20:18.580]  This was one of the rare occasions where I actually saw a judge say sustained before the lawyer said objection.
[20:19.060 --> 20:20.200]  That's how bad it was.
[20:20.200 --> 20:29.420]  Yeah, and I might add that this is not uncommon in the sense that they, you know, well, I mean, what do you do if the witness has clearly said something against you?
[20:29.480 --> 20:30.920]  Well, you try and discredit the witness.
[20:31.240 --> 20:33.120]  And how do you do that?
[20:33.280 --> 20:35.320]  Well, you grasp at what you can.
[20:35.820 --> 20:40.300]  When I was testifying at one point, they took a 10-minute break to Google me.
[20:41.080 --> 20:49.040]  I imagine they found that I was a graduate of Columbia University, that I co-founded a nonprofit dedicated to combating sexual violence.
[20:49.040 --> 20:51.120]  And they didn't bring it up after that.
[20:51.300 --> 20:55.260]  So, you know, they search for what they can, I think.
[20:55.480 --> 20:57.560]  You would think they would have done this beforehand, though.
[20:57.920 --> 20:58.880]  You know, you think they would have known.
[20:59.020 --> 21:01.460]  The judge was not aware that I had been arrested, too.
[21:01.820 --> 21:03.160]  That I was the person who shot the video.
[21:03.160 --> 21:03.620]  He knew that.
[21:03.700 --> 21:04.920]  But he wasn't aware that I was arrested.
[21:04.920 --> 21:09.360]  When he found that out, I had already been presented as a credible witness.
[21:09.360 --> 21:14.880]  And they were talking to me, both the prosecution and the defense were talking to me, in that fashion.
[21:15.080 --> 21:24.760]  So when he found out that this witness also was arrested by the police, while obviously shooting video and obviously working for the media, he was pretty much aghast by that.
[21:24.760 --> 21:26.100]  So it really worked against them.
[21:27.620 --> 21:33.980]  At this particular location, there are a great many passers-by, as one might say, who are arrested.
[21:33.980 --> 21:54.260]  There was a recent trial in which a Quaker who was going to volunteer at a homeless shelter happened to be walking on the sidewalk along 16th Street and was cut off, trapped, arrested, you know, and held for a long time in Pier 57, as, you know, many,
[21:54.340 --> 21:55.040]  many people were.
[21:55.620 --> 22:00.440]  You had legal observers, you had media, you had passers-by, I mean, workers in the area.
[22:00.440 --> 22:07.480]  So I... there are... a number of these cases have been dismissed, and as time goes on, this creates more and more witnesses.
[22:08.720 --> 22:11.280]  Now, Mike, you saw something particularly silly.
[22:11.560 --> 22:16.340]  This goes to the realm of silly, more than anything.
[22:16.840 --> 22:27.360]  As you said before, in the case that I was watching on Monday, your video was shown, and the district attorney had a laptop, and he had, I guess, the video on a CD-ROM.
[22:28.440 --> 22:36.140]  So he wanted to show this video to the police officer who was testifying to have him say, like, yes, that matches what I saw.
[22:37.520 --> 22:43.640]  And the judge wanted the DA to, I guess it's called authenticate the video.
[22:46.200 --> 22:55.440]  So, the DA was required to hold up the CD-ROM and say, is this the CD-ROM that contains the video that you saw?
[22:55.800 --> 22:58.720]  As though there's any way to tell just by looking at it.
[22:59.200 --> 23:02.760]  So he actually had to take it out of the machine and hold it in front of him.
[23:02.860 --> 23:06.760]  I was waiting for the machine to crash as he took out the disc he was using, but that didn't happen.
[23:07.320 --> 23:12.160]  The other thing is, they kept on, all the parties, kept on referring to this disc as a DVD.
[23:12.480 --> 23:17.480]  Apparently, any, you know, round object that contains video is a DVD in their eyes.
[23:17.620 --> 23:18.960]  But, whatever.
[23:19.060 --> 23:20.340]  Well, we'll let them have that, I guess.
[23:20.780 --> 23:31.680]  So, Mike, did the judge just let that fly as reasonable authentication, that they held it up and said, yes, is this the one that you can identify has the information on it we're talking about?
[23:31.680 --> 23:33.060]  The judge insisted upon it.
[23:33.140 --> 23:36.140]  The DA wasn't about to do anything so silly, to his credit.
[23:36.340 --> 23:39.900]  But the judge insisted upon this show of waving around.
[23:41.420 --> 23:41.860]  Amazing.
[23:42.120 --> 23:48.820]  In any event, as we got to the very end of this particular case, the closing statements were made.
[23:48.980 --> 23:55.000]  And as the DA started his closing statement, he basically tried to define what this case was about.
[23:55.080 --> 23:58.120]  I believe, Mike, the opening statement, he tried that as well, and that didn't go so well.
[23:58.240 --> 24:00.160]  The opening statement was a horrible mess.
[24:00.160 --> 24:04.460]  The DA first tried to say that August 31st was a very momentous day.
[24:04.600 --> 24:06.520]  There were hurricanes in Florida, and this, that.
[24:06.580 --> 24:09.040]  And the judge was like, don't want to hear it.
[24:09.080 --> 24:10.020]  Tell me about Manhattan.
[24:12.360 --> 24:20.900]  And then the rest of his opening statement was like almost a word-for-word reading of the statutes on disorderly conduct.
[24:21.080 --> 24:21.680]  It was very boring.
[24:21.680 --> 24:34.240]  Well, the closing statement started with the DA saying, this case is about defining an individual's actions based on the actions of the group around that person.
[24:35.040 --> 24:40.500]  And I just heard this voice say in a loud, booming tone, wrong.
[24:41.180 --> 24:42.740]  And I was looking all around the courtroom.
[24:42.860 --> 24:43.460]  Who said that?
[24:43.580 --> 24:44.520]  What's going on here?
[24:44.580 --> 24:46.820]  And there was about 20 seconds of really awkward silence.
[24:47.540 --> 24:49.680]  And then the judge continued to speak.
[24:49.820 --> 24:51.200]  Yes, the judge had said that.
[24:51.440 --> 24:57.820]  He had cut the DA off in this first sentence of his closing statement to tell him that he was going about it all the wrong way.
[24:57.820 --> 25:01.820]  He then proceeded to lecture him on what this case was really about and what it wasn't about.
[25:02.240 --> 25:04.960]  And you could just tell, you know, he was completely...
[25:04.960 --> 25:08.720]  The DA was completely deflated at that point and just kind of limped to the finish line.
[25:09.420 --> 25:19.760]  And no sooner had he done that than the judge said that there was no evidence to suggest that anything had happened here and the charge was dropped, as has happened in many other cases as well.
[25:20.380 --> 25:28.740]  Yeah, I mean, the cases, as I've understood them thus far, and I, of course, haven't gotten to witness a great many of them.
[25:28.860 --> 25:35.720]  And there haven't, you know, there are still hundreds of open cases and more will go to trial and we will learn more as time goes on.
[25:35.900 --> 25:46.540]  But you cannot, I mean, you have to have, and of course, I'll qualify, I'm not a lawyer, you have to have individualized probable cause to arrest somebody.
[25:46.540 --> 25:49.420]  You have to think that that person did something.
[25:51.020 --> 25:53.920]  You can't just say the group did something.
[25:54.120 --> 25:57.100]  You have to say this person committed a crime.
[25:57.380 --> 26:06.860]  And as a prosecution strategy of saying the group's guilty, so that person's guilty, that's just not going to be very effective.
[26:08.360 --> 26:11.740]  Well, Jeff, I want to thank you very much for all of your efforts.
[26:11.740 --> 26:16.580]  And, of course, this will be continuing, and I might be a witness for other cases as well.
[26:16.920 --> 26:18.560]  You know, it's a good feeling, though.
[26:18.660 --> 26:23.400]  I mean, I didn't get my day in court, but at least I'm helping other people with their days in court, and it's fun.
[26:23.520 --> 26:31.420]  It really is fun to, I know it's not supposed to be fun, but it's satisfying to be able to tell what happened and to have somebody listen and take it seriously.
[26:32.560 --> 26:44.600]  And it was the frustration that I went through and so many people went through during the RNC of just not mattering, just kind of being thrown into the system without regard to what you were actually doing.
[26:44.840 --> 26:47.180]  So it feels like there is actually some justice there.
[26:47.240 --> 26:48.600]  Of course, you know, it's only the beginning.
[26:48.760 --> 26:51.840]  There's a long fight ahead as far as civil actions and things like that.
[26:52.700 --> 26:59.160]  But these cases continue for so many people, and I guess we'll be watching it as it proceeds through the legal system.
[26:59.280 --> 27:07.860]  But, again, if you have a case, you're on 16th Street, I'd be happy to be a witness because I was there, and I saw a lot, and I videoed a lot.
[27:08.500 --> 27:11.540]  And aired it right here on WBAI with the sound recordings.
[27:13.020 --> 27:13.820]  So, Jeff, thanks.
[27:13.920 --> 27:16.840]  How can people get involved in the National Lawyers Guild?
[27:16.840 --> 27:23.500]  Well, the thing that we're most in particular looking for is evidence that has not been turned in to the National Lawyers Guild.
[27:23.700 --> 27:37.180]  If you have pictures, video, or were a witness where you saw a person, you know, during or slightly before the Republican National Convention, if you saw them before they were arrested, while they were arrested, and after they were arrested, then you're a good witness.
[27:37.480 --> 27:44.540]  You can call 212-679-6018, extension 20.
[27:44.540 --> 27:50.420]  Or if you have evidence, you can email evidence at NLG.org.
[27:50.440 --> 27:52.400]  And we're still looking for video pictures.
[27:52.460 --> 27:55.760]  They keep coming in, and we appreciate the community response.
[27:56.120 --> 27:56.780]  Thank you.
[27:56.960 --> 27:58.640]  And, of course, donations are also welcome.
[27:59.080 --> 27:59.840]  Yes, yes.
[28:00.480 --> 28:00.960]  Great.
[28:01.280 --> 28:02.020]  Thanks again.
[28:03.160 --> 28:05.500]  We have all kinds of other stories to update people on.
[28:05.500 --> 28:06.620]  Of course, we'll be taking phone calls.
[28:06.700 --> 28:10.200]  212-209-2900 is our phone number.
[28:10.200 --> 28:17.580]  However, the MTA, our favorite people at the MTA, they're one step closer to banning photography in the subways.
[28:17.960 --> 28:24.860]  I know this is something we've been following for a couple of years, actually, because nobody actually knows if it's something that is illegal or not.
[28:24.860 --> 28:26.540]  Well, the MTA wants to make it illegal.
[28:26.960 --> 28:29.560]  And Mayor Bloomberg is actually against this.
[28:30.680 --> 28:34.960]  Commuters, transit advocates, civil libertarians, they're against it as well.
[28:35.220 --> 28:41.260]  The MTA said yesterday it's one step closer, though, to actually banning photography in the subway system.
[28:41.800 --> 28:48.000]  This would apply to still photography, filming, videotaping, and violators would face fines of $25.
[28:48.640 --> 28:50.880]  Doesn't sound like much, but that's not really the point.
[28:51.360 --> 28:58.100]  MTA officials say the ban is intended to deter terrorists from conducting surveillance inside the mass transit system.
[28:58.880 --> 29:12.240]  The Strap Hangers campaign, a writer's advocacy group, has come out against the rule saying, while it respects the need for security, it believes there are important values in having photographers document life and conditions on subways and buses.
[29:12.620 --> 29:19.360]  Now, there's a 45-day public comment period on the ban, and that ends on January 10th.
[29:19.480 --> 29:21.980]  That's when the board can vote on the ban or make more changes.
[29:21.980 --> 29:30.100]  Now, according to the stories I've been seeing, I don't think there's any public hearing scheduled, and that's really kind of upsetting.
[29:30.420 --> 29:43.000]  They say you can voice your opinion by mailing your comments to NYC Transit, 130 Livingston Street, Brooklyn, New York, 11201, or by visiting their website at www.mta.info.
[29:43.180 --> 29:49.600]  Well, I did visit their website, and I could not find a single area, any place, where I could voice my opinion on this matter.
[29:49.600 --> 29:57.020]  Yeah, there's an area to voice your opinion on a rate hike and cutbacks and other various things like that, but not this issue.
[29:57.440 --> 30:01.740]  I think this needs to be made an issue, and I think this is something that BAI listeners can certainly help with.
[30:01.820 --> 30:11.760]  I think if a lot of people turn out in various ways, and I guess, you know, if you turn out at any public hearing they're having and make this an issue, they'll have to deal with it.
[30:11.840 --> 30:12.360]  They really will.
[30:12.360 --> 30:22.260]  Think about the stupidity of banning photography in an area simply because a terrorist could use this to map it out and do something bad.
[30:22.360 --> 30:26.200]  This has not happened in the past for one thing, at least not in this city.
[30:26.360 --> 30:28.380]  You could do this to any place.
[30:28.380 --> 30:31.100]  You can go to a mall and map that out and take pictures there.
[30:31.100 --> 30:32.160]  Are we going to ban that next?
[30:32.400 --> 30:36.800]  You can take pictures outdoors of a city and map it out in that particular case.
[30:37.040 --> 30:37.580]  Yes, Jim?
[30:37.580 --> 30:58.280]  What's most absurd about this is that it would criminalize someone openly taking a photo of, say, their girlfriend, their boyfriend, their family, or just something architecturally that strikes them, whereas the sly terrorist with the concealed camera would not in all be affected.
[30:59.300 --> 31:05.100]  Those of you who are right-wing, the three of you listening, this is very akin to gun control laws, of course.
[31:05.280 --> 31:07.300]  You know, only the criminals will be ignoring them.
[31:08.940 --> 31:17.200]  Now, didn't you say something a few months ago when this first popped up that you were willing to host photos taken if the ban went into effect?
[31:17.340 --> 31:18.160]  That was for Bridges.
[31:18.560 --> 31:18.920]  Bridges.
[31:18.960 --> 31:19.440]  Oh, okay.
[31:19.620 --> 31:20.700]  Yeah, I was willing to do that.
[31:20.840 --> 31:22.040]  There's only so much I can do.
[31:22.200 --> 31:22.440]  I know.
[31:22.800 --> 31:27.380]  You know, there are so many sites out there with pictures of the subway system.
[31:27.380 --> 31:27.640]  That's very true.
[31:27.820 --> 31:30.740]  Including a great site, nycsubway.org, I believe.
[31:30.920 --> 31:31.080]  Right.
[31:31.260 --> 31:31.860]  Amazing site.
[31:32.460 --> 31:40.500]  And it's just something that's of such interest to people all over the world, to actually tell people, no, you can't take pictures of this because somebody could use it in a bad way.
[31:40.600 --> 31:44.780]  It's kind of like the theme of what we've been doing here and at 2600 for so long.
[31:45.060 --> 31:53.680]  Yeah, information can be misused, but information is extremely important and valuable, and you don't dare ignore it and the message it sends.
[31:53.680 --> 32:03.720]  Well, I've thought of a couple of protests, if the ban goes into effect, things that would, like, test exactly what the limits of the law are and show the absurdity of it.
[32:04.180 --> 32:11.320]  I was thinking we could, as a group, get some spotlights and go down to a tunnel and just shine it into the tunnel.
[32:11.520 --> 32:12.640]  Hopefully, this would be...
[32:12.640 --> 32:15.140]  I think that's more dangerous because you're not going to blind a train.
[32:15.180 --> 32:18.020]  Well, not into an oncoming train, a tunnel going the opposite way.
[32:18.740 --> 32:23.120]  And, you know, like, just stare there and wait until the police come up and ask what we're doing.
[32:23.220 --> 32:25.300]  And we'll say, well, we're just examining the architecture.
[32:26.180 --> 32:30.600]  Unfortunately, I wouldn't do it because, you know, with a prior conviction, this would not necessarily be good for me.
[32:30.760 --> 32:32.440]  But it would show the absurdity.
[32:32.540 --> 32:38.100]  How about having a whole lot of people just show up with cameras, like, line an entire subway platform and all take pictures at the same time?
[32:38.100 --> 32:39.160]  That's an excellent idea.
[32:39.160 --> 32:47.940]  I like the idea of finding people who do architectural sketches and having them sketch various things, preferably in front of police officers.
[32:48.020 --> 32:49.320]  Now, that's a good idea, Jim.
[32:49.420 --> 32:50.040]  That's a very good idea.
[32:50.140 --> 32:50.920]  You don't have a camera.
[32:51.060 --> 32:55.960]  You have somebody simply with a charcoal thing and a piece of paper and an easel and all that and taking...
[32:55.960 --> 32:56.920]  That would be interesting.
[32:57.080 --> 32:57.860]  That would be kind of cool.
[32:57.860 --> 33:00.360]  That we should look into doing if this does pass.
[33:00.620 --> 33:00.880]  Yes.
[33:00.880 --> 33:01.760]  Leo, do you have a suggestion?
[33:01.920 --> 33:04.420]  Well, it's mainly two questions.
[33:04.700 --> 33:09.260]  Basically, first of all, the security cameras in the subways, will they be exempt?
[33:09.540 --> 33:10.620]  I imagine they will.
[33:10.760 --> 33:11.440]  I imagine so.
[33:11.680 --> 33:14.880]  And the second thing is the elevated trains in, like, Brooklyn and Queens.
[33:15.640 --> 33:16.160]  Oh, yeah.
[33:16.440 --> 33:16.800]  Outside.
[33:17.380 --> 33:17.680]  Outside.
[33:18.360 --> 33:19.560]  Outside, violate the law.
[33:20.100 --> 33:21.260]  I imagine if you're...
[33:21.260 --> 33:22.820]  It's kind of like the smoking ban.
[33:22.980 --> 33:25.120]  If you're somewhere in the system, you're not allowed to smoke.
[33:25.280 --> 33:26.780]  If you're outside the system, then you can.
[33:27.320 --> 33:32.540]  So I would imagine if you're taking a picture of a subway entrance, they really can't do anything to you because you're not on their property.
[33:32.540 --> 33:36.300]  But if you're on their property, that's what they're trying to tell you that you cannot do.
[33:36.360 --> 33:37.160]  You cannot take pictures.
[33:37.280 --> 33:44.500]  We find an elevated station with an apartment house next to it and contact everybody who has windows on the front and just take photos from all of those.
[33:44.500 --> 33:48.920]  The important thing is, before it gets to that point, we have to speak out against it.
[33:49.180 --> 33:50.260]  And people need to...
[33:50.260 --> 34:07.800]  If anyone out there, any listener out there knows ways that we can be heard, if there is a hearing on this that was not publicized, if there is part of the website that is collecting information on this, or if there are any ideas that you have as to where we can go and where we can voice our opposition to this,
[34:07.980 --> 34:08.760]  please let us know.
[34:08.760 --> 34:13.280]  You can write to us, off the hook, care of WBAI, 120 Wall Street, New York, New York.
[34:13.520 --> 34:15.720]  One double zero zero five.
[34:16.280 --> 34:17.760]  Do you want to try that one more time, Jim?
[34:18.140 --> 34:19.780]  One zero double zero five.
[34:19.880 --> 34:21.860]  No, no, let's try it in, like, human language.
[34:22.040 --> 34:23.240]  One triple zero five.
[34:23.460 --> 34:23.960]  Close enough.
[34:24.620 --> 34:25.200]  All right.
[34:25.700 --> 34:30.360]  Moving along with mass transit type news, this person writes in to us.
[34:30.480 --> 34:33.600]  Oh, and you can write to us, OTH at 2600.com.
[34:33.820 --> 34:35.000]  OTH for off the hook.
[34:35.480 --> 34:37.720]  Don't write off the hook at 2600.com.
[34:37.720 --> 34:42.080]  Some people try that, and it doesn't go anywhere, and then we find out later that we never got their mail.
[34:42.160 --> 34:43.600]  You should open that mailbox, then.
[34:43.940 --> 34:44.760]  That's an idea.
[34:44.920 --> 34:45.400]  That's an idea.
[34:46.280 --> 34:47.160]  I was...
[34:47.160 --> 34:48.320]  You get even more spam.
[34:48.540 --> 34:51.840]  I was looking for some ideas regarding transit system...
[34:51.840 --> 34:52.580]  Transit tickets, rather.
[34:52.820 --> 34:57.320]  In the San Francisco Bay Area, there is a really neat transit system called BART.
[34:57.560 --> 34:58.400]  Hey, I've heard of it.
[34:58.640 --> 35:00.560]  It stands for Bay Area Rapid Transit.
[35:00.580 --> 35:03.700]  It runs underground throughout San Francisco and many surrounding cities.
[35:03.980 --> 35:06.940]  It is an interesting system that I am thinking about exploring more.
[35:06.940 --> 35:13.460]  It uses a prepaid ticket system, which has an unlimited ride plan that is heinously expensive, with paper cards.
[35:13.740 --> 35:17.060]  The cards for the system are made of paper with mag stripes on one side.
[35:17.180 --> 35:20.860]  They are the same size as those standard PVC cards all over the place, credit cards, etc.
[35:21.140 --> 35:23.780]  But the mag stripe is in a non-standard place.
[35:23.780 --> 35:28.340]  It is much thinner than the regular mag stripes, and is offset in a strange place on the card.
[35:28.520 --> 35:31.220]  I was wondering if you had any good ideas on reading it.
[35:31.220 --> 35:36.140]  Could I take a read head out of a mag stripe reader and just pass it over the card myself?
[35:36.460 --> 35:41.200]  Well, we have Redbird here, who might have some ideas for this letter from Jonathan.
[35:41.940 --> 35:42.160]  All right.
[35:42.260 --> 35:56.720]  Well, the reason why it probably won't work with a standard card reader is that specialized cards like that tend not to have the clocking bits at the beginning of the mag stripe that are required for many of the commercial readers that you can buy to work correctly.
[35:56.720 --> 36:04.620]  You try to swipe them, and you'll get something strange, like each time you swipe it, it'll read something differently, or it just won't work at all.
[36:06.420 --> 36:15.800]  Also, many commercial readers look for the Start Sentinel and End Sentinel that are on standard credit cards, and those also won't be present on specialized cards like this.
[36:15.920 --> 36:30.740]  But if you did want to try to read the card, you can take a magnetic head and create your own type of interface using some kind of AD converter like a sound card and pass it over and then analyze the data from that.
[36:31.420 --> 36:43.320]  The type of encoding it uses is known as Aiken Bi-Phase, which is a type of frequency shift keying that uses two different frequencies, one for each bit, zero and one, and then you can decode it from there.
[36:43.480 --> 36:44.380]  What's that called again?
[36:44.580 --> 36:45.520]  Aiken Bi-Phase.
[36:45.520 --> 36:46.400]  Aiken Bi-Phase.
[36:46.400 --> 36:47.620]  Or frequency shift keying.
[36:48.460 --> 36:48.700]  Okay.
[36:49.060 --> 36:49.400]  FSK.
[36:50.240 --> 36:50.760]  FSK?
[36:51.100 --> 36:51.440]  Yeah.
[36:51.600 --> 36:51.840]  Okay.
[36:51.920 --> 36:57.500]  It's commonly used by ham radio operators for radio communication, digital radio communications.
[36:57.680 --> 36:59.260]  FSK has been around for decades.
[36:59.920 --> 37:00.120]  Wow.
[37:00.120 --> 37:04.260]  It all just kind of relates to each other, all these different topics and subjects.
[37:04.780 --> 37:11.180]  Jonathan could probably get in touch with Captain Crunch for information about the inner workings of the BART cards.
[37:11.500 --> 37:13.080]  Well, just walk around San Francisco.
[37:13.200 --> 37:14.100]  Eventually, you'll run into them.
[37:15.260 --> 37:16.580]  That's how everybody else finds them.
[37:17.000 --> 37:25.160]  There's a website, http colon slash slash BART dot gov slash tickets slash types slash types dot ASP.
[37:25.360 --> 37:26.520]  Yes, I did say types twice.
[37:26.740 --> 37:30.140]  And that has all types of tickets pictured on it.
[37:30.260 --> 37:33.360]  And thanks again to Jonathan for sharing that information with us.
[37:33.440 --> 37:36.100]  We also have a letter from Calgary, Alberta.
[37:36.100 --> 37:38.960]  We have a light rail transit train system, LRT.
[37:39.220 --> 37:43.100]  Our system is similar to the European style where it runs on the honor system.
[37:43.100 --> 37:46.060]  And random spot checks are designed to keep people honest.
[37:46.860 --> 37:49.220]  Different, however, to your California story about the subway.
[37:49.380 --> 37:53.140]  Here, it's owned by the government, but is policed by the transit system authorities.
[37:53.320 --> 37:56.540]  They don't carry guns, just a ticket book, which they swat you with if you're bad.
[37:56.860 --> 38:01.980]  However, I have noticed that they can either be in uniform or plain clothes, as I've seen both styles catching people.
[38:02.200 --> 38:07.820]  The uniform version is similar to cop's outfits, complete with a vest that looks very similar to a bulletproof vest.
[38:07.820 --> 38:08.680]  But I doubt they are.
[38:09.360 --> 38:10.500]  Please don't test that theory.
[38:10.740 --> 38:16.860]  It costs $2 to ride the train in any direction for any amount of time within the 90-minute duration of the issued train ticket.
[38:17.100 --> 38:18.740]  We also have free fare zones.
[38:18.820 --> 38:28.220]  Free fare zones within the city as well, where you can jump on the train, go five or six stops, and you don't have to purchase a ticket, and you don't have to worry that you've done something wrong.
[38:29.300 --> 38:29.700]  Wow.
[38:29.900 --> 38:33.920]  Well, thanks very much for that letter, our contributor, in Alberta.
[38:33.920 --> 38:38.160]  They have that on the air train, a free fare zone, terminal to terminal.
[38:38.320 --> 38:38.600]  That's true.
[38:38.780 --> 38:43.820]  Yeah, except you have to be within the JFK property to make use of that.
[38:44.140 --> 38:47.480]  You get a friend to drop you off anywhere, and you can get to your terminal.
[38:47.680 --> 38:51.220]  A couple things on the BART system that we were talking about a minute ago.
[38:51.500 --> 38:54.960]  First of all, it's the same system that they have in Washington, D.C.
[38:55.180 --> 38:55.560]  on the metro.
[38:56.400 --> 39:14.620]  And I'm told, I've not verified this myself, but I'm told that there is a physical buffer overflow problem with some of the ticket-issuing machines, where if you put enough nickels into the machine, there's a buffer there that will literally overflow and give you your nickels back in addition to a ticket.
[39:14.740 --> 39:17.460]  If you try this and it doesn't work or you get caught...
[39:17.460 --> 39:18.080]  Sorry.
[39:18.260 --> 39:19.100]  Get caught doing what?
[39:19.220 --> 39:19.680]  I don't know.
[39:19.720 --> 39:20.220]  Putting nickels into a machine?
[39:20.420 --> 39:21.660]  I didn't know that was a crime.
[39:21.660 --> 39:22.380]  You never know.
[39:22.840 --> 39:23.200]  Wow.
[39:23.440 --> 39:25.520]  Nickel buffer overflow exploit.
[39:25.660 --> 39:26.060]  That's what I...
[39:26.060 --> 39:27.280]  You know, I like it.
[39:27.700 --> 39:28.560]  Yeah, I love it.
[39:29.700 --> 39:30.060]  Okay.
[39:30.260 --> 39:31.660]  Mike, this letter is actually for you.
[39:31.740 --> 39:36.140]  We tried to call you last week, but you were on an Amtrak train, and apparently you can't get reception there.
[39:36.280 --> 39:38.000]  I was actually off the Amtrak train.
[39:38.080 --> 39:38.560]  How do you know?
[39:38.920 --> 39:41.540]  Because I know what time I got off it, and I know what time the show is.
[39:41.720 --> 39:42.120]  Oh, okay.
[39:42.140 --> 39:43.420]  I guess that's true.
[39:44.400 --> 39:51.860]  This person writes in, I'd completely forgotten that you were with ATTWS, which I guess stands for AT&T Wireless Service.
[39:52.380 --> 39:57.060]  I'd completely forgotten you were on that system for yourself until you mentioned it on a couple weeks ago.
[39:57.740 --> 40:00.480]  I'm a customer care rep for ATTWS.
[40:00.980 --> 40:02.880]  Internally now, it's called Singular Blue.
[40:03.540 --> 40:08.460]  I'm staying as a blue rep and dealing only with former ATTWS customers.
[40:09.140 --> 40:10.860]  Did you know you were a former customer?
[40:12.120 --> 40:13.800]  Apparently, that's how they're referring to you now.
[40:13.960 --> 40:15.860]  I'm still being provided service.
[40:16.020 --> 40:16.320]  I don't know.
[40:16.320 --> 40:23.880]  But we're all trained in the merge, and what we're allowed to say on the phone, what we're not allowed to say, but some of us will, and what might get us sued.
[40:24.160 --> 40:27.780]  So if you have any questions on the blue-orange merge, just holler.
[40:29.240 --> 40:31.860]  And, signed Tommy, I'm going to hand this mail to you.
[40:32.020 --> 40:32.320]  Oh.
[40:32.320 --> 40:38.800]  And feel free to email that listener with any questions that you might have with your AT&T service.
[40:40.860 --> 40:41.900]  This is a great letter.
[40:42.080 --> 40:43.180]  This one we got last week.
[40:43.460 --> 40:46.420]  I want to relate to you guys an experience that just happened to me today.
[40:46.900 --> 40:54.160]  I went to take a network test at a Prometric Center in Brooklyn that my job requires me to have.
[40:54.160 --> 40:57.080]  I went to the testing center and was all set to sit down and take my test.
[40:57.320 --> 40:58.940]  All I had to do was sign in.
[40:58.940 --> 41:01.820]  However, the guy who ran the center told me that there was a problem.
[41:02.040 --> 41:04.840]  Turns out that I needed to show him two forms of ID first.
[41:05.440 --> 41:06.460]  Okay, I thought, no problem.
[41:06.520 --> 41:08.400]  I took out my wallet and handed him my driver's license.
[41:08.800 --> 41:13.800]  He informed me after looking at it that it was not a valid form of ID because it was expired.
[41:15.040 --> 41:19.820]  I tried to explain to him that just because it was expired did not invalidate who I was.
[41:20.420 --> 41:24.140]  As much as I argued the point with him, he refused to accept it as a valid form of ID.
[41:24.800 --> 41:35.080]  I emptied the contents of my wallet and showed him every other ID that I had, including five credit cards, a social security card, and a copy of my birth certificate, none of which apparently was good enough.
[41:35.080 --> 41:36.920]  He still required a photo ID.
[41:37.840 --> 41:44.580]  My friend who was with me at the time, who was also going to be taking the test with me, registered with this guy by giving him a Florida driver's license and a photo work ID.
[41:44.700 --> 41:50.940]  He gladly accepted that, even though the driver's license for the state of Florida was an out-of-state ID and had no expiration date on it.
[41:51.040 --> 41:53.020]  Is that true of Florida licenses?
[41:53.020 --> 41:54.240]  They don't have an expiration date.
[41:54.620 --> 41:54.980]  Huh.
[41:55.420 --> 42:00.320]  Being frustrated and almost ready to give up, I walked out of the testing center and started thinking about what I could do.
[42:00.640 --> 42:07.500]  Since I work about 50 miles from my house and the testing center was just as far, I couldn't just go home and get something and come back.
[42:08.500 --> 42:13.460]  Neither could I return to work as I would have had to have taken the subway to get there and I wouldn't have made it back in time.
[42:13.860 --> 42:17.620]  As I walked down the street, I noticed a store that sold picture IDs while you wait.
[42:19.620 --> 42:24.280]  I had nothing to lose at this point, so I went in and asked them if they were able to make up employee ID cards.
[42:24.420 --> 42:28.780]  They started giving me a story about how it isn't a valid form of ID and it's not a state issued one either.
[42:29.020 --> 42:37.140]  I told them I didn't really care and that according to the paperwork, I had just seen a photo employee ID was... that I had just seen a photo ID was good enough.
[42:38.060 --> 42:41.180]  15 minutes later, I walked out of the store with a photo employee ID in hand.
[42:41.280 --> 42:46.540]  I walked back into the testing center and told the guy, okay, let's play it your way now and proceeded to hand him the photo ID.
[42:46.540 --> 42:51.200]  He looked at it for a second, then gladly accepted it, plus a credit card, and registered me for the test.
[42:51.840 --> 42:54.420]  Funny thing is that he made me sign the back of the credit card in front of him.
[42:55.020 --> 42:58.720]  The employee ID only had my name and workplace on it with my social security number.
[42:59.100 --> 43:01.120]  Goes to show you just how stupid some people can be.
[43:01.200 --> 43:02.500]  Needless to say, I passed the test.
[43:02.580 --> 43:03.080]  I'm Gregory.
[43:04.300 --> 43:04.660]  Well.
[43:05.280 --> 43:05.820]  Nothing new.
[43:06.200 --> 43:09.220]  I guess not, but I've seen the same thing happen in airports.
[43:09.680 --> 43:10.040]  Exactly.
[43:10.040 --> 43:13.540]  And I think it's phenomenally absurd when you...
[43:13.540 --> 43:14.600]  I mean, you're looking at the license.
[43:14.600 --> 43:22.100]  You see the person's face, you see their ID, and here you can walk into a store and just make something up and say that you're somebody you're not.
[43:22.200 --> 43:24.260]  And of course, your face is going to be the same because you just made it.
[43:25.640 --> 43:32.760]  I don't know how they're trained or who tells them that this is not a valid form of ID, but it just goes to show how absurd the whole thing is.
[43:33.000 --> 43:33.920]  Their case...
[43:33.920 --> 43:39.840]  The signature thing, too, where you sign your credit card in the back and then he compares it with the other papers that you just signed.
[43:40.020 --> 43:40.900]  It's like, okay, it matches.
[43:41.840 --> 43:42.660]  Yeah, yeah.
[43:42.880 --> 43:50.540]  That happens to me a lot, too, because I don't believe in signing my credit card because if I lose my credit card, then the person who steals it or whatever has my signature as well.
[43:51.440 --> 44:03.020]  There are cases I've read about online where people have tried to travel via airline and their driver's license has expired literally the previous day.
[44:03.660 --> 44:05.540]  And they're refusing to allow them to fly.
[44:05.640 --> 44:06.660]  It's like you don't exist anymore.
[44:06.800 --> 44:06.920]  Right.
[44:07.360 --> 44:08.380]  You're a non-person.
[44:10.500 --> 44:11.040]  All right.
[44:11.320 --> 44:12.120]  Here's some more letters.
[44:12.260 --> 44:14.280]  And again, up front number 212-209-2900.
[44:14.860 --> 44:15.660]  Greetings from Amsterdam.
[44:15.660 --> 44:20.800]  I was thinking about what you said regarding eight-year-olds and cell phones and how when you were younger, this wasn't necessary.
[44:21.140 --> 44:28.620]  I grew up in New Jersey, and I remember one of the key things for contacting my parents for a ride or in an emergency in my teen years, not when I was eight, was the payphone.
[44:29.140 --> 44:36.360]  Considering that every time I get back to Jersey, I see fewer and fewer payphones, looks like parents have no choice but to get cell phones for their teens if they can afford it.
[44:36.520 --> 44:37.480]  Signed, Bicycle Mark.
[44:37.640 --> 44:42.620]  Well, yeah, you're probably right about that, but it seems pretty absurd, especially if you give cell phones to eight-year-olds.
[44:42.700 --> 44:48.160]  You know, I don't think they're just going to be using them for calling their parents when they need a ride or, you know, in an emergency or something like that.
[44:48.380 --> 44:52.300]  They're going to be calling all kinds of people and wasting all kinds of time, and it's a distraction.
[44:52.300 --> 44:53.060]  It really is.
[44:53.140 --> 44:54.900]  I think, you know, payphones still serve a purpose.
[44:55.080 --> 44:56.340]  They still should be around.
[44:56.340 --> 45:03.620]  Or maybe just, you know, emergency call phones, you know, that can contact certain entities that don't cost anything.
[45:03.820 --> 45:10.440]  In the last 40 months in New York City, we've had two major disasters, the World Trade Center and a blackout.
[45:10.720 --> 45:14.240]  In both those cases, cell phones did not work.
[45:14.560 --> 45:18.020]  Power was out or too many lines were disrupted and too many people...
[45:18.020 --> 45:18.100]  That's not true, actually.
[45:18.140 --> 45:19.060]  I made cell phone calls.
[45:19.160 --> 45:21.200]  They were very delayed, but they did work.
[45:21.340 --> 45:21.480]  Really?
[45:21.620 --> 45:21.820]  Yeah.
[45:22.000 --> 45:24.540]  It was hard to imagine that they did, but they actually did.
[45:24.600 --> 45:26.520]  A lot of people were unable to make them.
[45:28.120 --> 45:30.880]  Whereas, landlines, payphones work.
[45:31.040 --> 45:45.500]  But yet, the City Council of the City of New York has stopped any more payphones from being built because, gee, the people putting them up can put ads on the outside and they don't want the private companies to make the money.
[45:46.800 --> 45:48.320]  So, it all comes back to money, Jim.
[45:48.580 --> 45:48.920]  Exactly.
[45:49.200 --> 45:50.880]  The City Council doesn't feel they're getting theirs.
[45:52.020 --> 45:52.580]  All right.
[45:53.500 --> 46:04.400]  I'm sorry if this has been covered already in 2600 or on Off the Hook, but over Thanksgiving, my little brother was playing Grand Theft Auto, San Andreas, and he claims that Emmanuel Goldstein makes a guest appearance on one of the fake radio talk shows featured in the game.
[46:04.580 --> 46:05.340]  True or false?
[46:06.120 --> 46:06.980]  Bernie, what do you think?
[46:08.420 --> 46:09.060]  Oh, I'm sorry.
[46:09.140 --> 46:09.680]  You had to turn down.
[46:10.040 --> 46:12.840]  Maybe his brother is hallucinating, but I heard the same thing.
[46:13.500 --> 46:13.760]  Yeah.
[46:13.920 --> 46:16.220]  In fact, a lot of people said they hear your voice in it, too.
[46:16.840 --> 46:17.500]  It's amazing.
[46:17.760 --> 46:18.280]  It's just...
[46:18.280 --> 46:19.340]  I can't explain it.
[46:19.660 --> 46:20.140]  All right.
[46:20.880 --> 46:25.220]  After Googling 2600, I noticed one of the sponsored links said, subscribe to 2600.
[46:25.360 --> 46:29.780]  I then noticed the subtext, get four issues for $13.14 each.
[46:30.160 --> 46:34.580]  I was just curious why Amazon.com is selling 2600 subscriptions for $55.
[46:35.320 --> 46:38.540]  Do people really pay this for a 2600 subscription and why?
[46:39.120 --> 46:40.200]  Signed Don from Chicago.
[46:40.360 --> 46:41.820]  Well, Don, yeah, you know, that is true.
[46:42.180 --> 46:48.660]  We have a corporate subscription that is used for those corporations that can't simply send you a check.
[46:48.660 --> 46:50.020]  They have to send you an invoice.
[46:50.020 --> 46:52.500]  You have to sign all kinds of forms and certificates.
[46:52.780 --> 46:53.880]  Then you have to send them a bill.
[46:54.040 --> 46:59.800]  And while they're getting their magazine, they're processing the bill so that by the time it's expired, you finally get a check.
[47:01.000 --> 47:04.760]  For those people, for those entities, we do charge a higher amount.
[47:04.860 --> 47:13.780]  Now, what's happened is a subscription agency apparently has bought one of these subscriptions and is now reselling it on Amazon.com.
[47:13.920 --> 47:16.820]  Not something we really approve of, but we don't really have any control over it.
[47:16.920 --> 47:24.840]  So if you see that when you Google for 2600, just laugh heartily and proceed to our internet store where you can get it at the real price.
[47:26.100 --> 47:29.180]  Maybe we should be a sponsored link for our own name.
[47:29.460 --> 47:30.120]  I don't know.
[47:31.240 --> 47:34.320]  Maybe we've spoken about the Google AdWords program on the show.
[47:34.320 --> 47:35.460]  So I think they would allow that.
[47:35.580 --> 47:36.180]  I hope so.
[47:36.340 --> 47:36.900]  I hope so.
[47:38.520 --> 47:38.920]  Okay.
[47:39.640 --> 47:40.280]  What else?
[47:40.440 --> 47:42.540]  212-209-2900 is our phone number.
[47:44.300 --> 47:44.840]  Oh, yes.
[47:44.920 --> 47:45.200]  This one.
[47:45.520 --> 47:53.860]  I'm a longtime listener of Off the Hook and reader of 2600 Magazine, although I enjoy your well-educated opinions regarding technology issues and government.
[47:54.080 --> 47:56.940]  Emmanuel crossed the line on the 24th of November show.
[47:57.460 --> 47:58.240]  War is hell.
[47:58.320 --> 48:01.080]  This is the, I guess, my Iraqi comments or my Iraq comments.
[48:01.400 --> 48:02.100]  War is hell.
[48:02.180 --> 48:03.080]  There is no doubt about it.
[48:03.080 --> 48:05.340]  Yes, the Marine did swear in a mosque.
[48:05.400 --> 48:07.500]  Oh, well, that's what happens when you fire upon them.
[48:08.680 --> 48:11.980]  So, so many think we're here just going from door to door killing people.
[48:12.400 --> 48:18.040]  What America doesn't see is 200-pound improvised explosive devices with trigger mechanisms attached to puppies and children.
[48:19.080 --> 48:21.900]  I'm not quite sure you're seeing that either, but whatever.
[48:22.400 --> 48:25.200]  How quickly we forget the barbaric beheadings of innocent people.
[48:25.220 --> 48:28.540]  How quickly we judge others yet refuse to pick up a weapon and walk in their shoes.
[48:29.000 --> 48:40.520]  Well, you know, I think that's kind of the point is that, you know, you're in a foreign country, you've invaded a foreign country, you're walking around with guns, kicking in people's doors, and then wondering why they're firing back at you.
[48:40.660 --> 48:47.780]  I mean, you know, it's, this is something that is a very touchy issue, obviously, especially if you're over there.
[48:47.860 --> 48:51.260]  And my heart goes out to anybody who finds himself in that situation.
[48:51.260 --> 48:56.380]  But understand that it's, that doesn't justify the situation that you're in.
[48:56.560 --> 49:01.820]  All you can do is try and be as, as good a person as you can possibly be in an impossible situation.
[49:02.060 --> 49:04.580]  But anyway, let's continue with this letter here.
[49:04.960 --> 49:06.820]  Please don't pass judgment too quickly.
[49:06.940 --> 49:08.400]  Yes, Emmanuel, you did see a video.
[49:08.720 --> 49:15.440]  What that video didn't show was the fighting that led up to the point when the NBC cameraman had the ability to begin shooting video when it was safe.
[49:15.540 --> 49:16.940]  Actually, that's not correct.
[49:16.940 --> 49:23.620]  The video does begin outside, you follow the NBC cameraman into the mosque, and you see the people lying on the ground.
[49:24.160 --> 49:40.760]  And yes, as Jim mentioned last week, there was at least one person who was alive, other than the person that was shot dead for being alive, which, to me, makes it all the weirder why this person was executed for pretending to be dead, just lying there and breathing while somebody else was alive and was not,
[49:40.760 --> 49:42.820]  was not treated that way.
[49:44.300 --> 49:47.820]  Continuing with the letter, imagine if someone came into your studio and killed four people.
[49:48.600 --> 49:53.500]  Then, when they saw your big gun, they played dead with a grenade under their belly or just dropped their gun and surrendered.
[49:53.660 --> 49:56.260]  Okay, well, how many ways can I approach this?
[49:56.600 --> 50:00.540]  First of all, this person did not have a grenade under their belly and did not have a gun.
[50:00.640 --> 50:01.620]  He was just there breathing.
[50:01.780 --> 50:02.380]  That was his crime.
[50:02.800 --> 50:06.500]  Second of all, let's make the analogy a little bit more accurate.
[50:06.640 --> 50:16.660]  If this radio program went into your house uninvited, you would have every right to protect yourself against us intruding upon you inside your own home.
[50:16.760 --> 50:17.400]  And I don't mean over the radio.
[50:17.480 --> 50:24.180]  I mean, if we kicked in your door and started broadcasting from inside your house, that's the analogy, okay, right there.
[50:24.600 --> 50:30.560]  And I don't think any jury in the country would say that you weren't right to attack us for for doing that.
[50:30.740 --> 50:32.180]  And that's what's happening to you guys.
[50:32.320 --> 50:33.420]  That's what's happening to you guys.
[50:33.840 --> 50:36.280]  You're in a place you were not invited into.
[50:36.820 --> 50:40.280]  And it's, you know, you may think you're there for a good reason.
[50:40.420 --> 50:41.300]  Trust me, you're not.
[50:42.340 --> 50:45.720]  You're part of the biggest scam maybe in this country's history.
[50:46.040 --> 50:51.160]  And you're taking part in something that's going to destroy our image in the rest of the world for a good long time.
[50:51.400 --> 50:52.260]  No, it's not your fault.
[50:52.320 --> 50:55.020]  You probably just joined up because you wanted to have your education paid for.
[50:55.240 --> 50:57.400]  But you should be damn pissed off about that.
[50:57.780 --> 50:58.340]  All right.
[50:59.580 --> 51:00.880]  Finally, finishing off this letter.
[51:00.960 --> 51:02.260]  As I said, gents, war is hell.
[51:02.420 --> 51:03.400]  That's why they call it war.
[51:03.940 --> 51:06.120]  You guys know above all that freedom isn't free.
[51:06.280 --> 51:06.640]  Signed, Will.
[51:07.280 --> 51:08.660]  First of all, Will, it's not a war.
[51:08.760 --> 51:09.260]  It's an invasion.
[51:09.400 --> 51:10.040]  It's an occupation.
[51:10.860 --> 51:12.820]  And wars have armies on both sides.
[51:13.100 --> 51:16.220]  You basically have insurgents trying to kick you out of their country.
[51:16.500 --> 51:19.800]  And, you know, hard as this is to say, you're never going to win against that.
[51:19.940 --> 51:23.620]  If we had still been in Vietnam, we'd still be fighting the insurgents.
[51:23.760 --> 51:27.980]  You cannot win against insurgency when they're in their own country.
[51:28.340 --> 51:29.540]  You just cannot do that.
[51:30.520 --> 51:32.440]  So, I hope you guys get home safely.
[51:32.440 --> 51:36.760]  And I hope you don't do anything that traumatizes yourself or hurts other people.
[51:36.760 --> 51:38.580]  But I know that's wishful thinking.
[51:39.880 --> 51:40.240]  Okay.
[51:40.420 --> 51:42.360]  You point to me because you assume I have something to say.
[51:42.440 --> 51:43.900]  I thought you were saying something.
[51:44.000 --> 51:44.500]  What was that, Mike?
[51:44.500 --> 51:50.700]  What I'm going to say is that the comments just expressed are those of the expressor only.
[51:51.000 --> 51:51.360]  Oh, yeah.
[51:51.540 --> 51:51.760]  They are.
[51:51.860 --> 51:53.340]  Possibly other people here, but not me.
[51:53.440 --> 51:55.620]  And everybody is welcome to their say.
[51:55.700 --> 51:57.940]  And if someone violently disagrees with me, please say that.
[51:58.560 --> 51:59.480]  But, you know...
[51:59.480 --> 52:03.260]  Well, I'm not going to bother pursuing it because I don't think it's the direct thrust of the show.
[52:03.320 --> 52:04.340]  Or even the indirect thrust.
[52:04.420 --> 52:04.540]  No, it's not.
[52:04.660 --> 52:05.980]  But, you know, it was brought up last week.
[52:06.060 --> 52:06.600]  Someone sent the letter.
[52:06.720 --> 52:08.840]  And I feel, you know, they're over there doing whatever.
[52:09.120 --> 52:12.600]  They, you know, we should at least address the issue that they took time to write about.
[52:12.600 --> 52:14.040]  Oh, I agree you should have read that letter, yeah.
[52:14.100 --> 52:20.040]  And, you know, the freedom that we have to discuss these issues is not being preserved by running into foreign countries and blowing things up, okay?
[52:20.160 --> 52:33.160]  It's preserved by staying here and by standing up against all the rights that are being taken away from us, such as the right to take pictures of trains and stations and, you know, all the other things that we can spend the rest of the hour listing.
[52:33.460 --> 52:37.780]  I would like to thank that gentleman for sending us a very nice picture of an Iraqi payphone now.
[52:37.960 --> 52:38.600]  Oh, yes.
[52:38.760 --> 52:39.880]  Thank you very much for that.
[52:39.880 --> 52:42.940]  Yeah, was it a real Iraqi payphone, not something the U.S.
[52:43.020 --> 52:43.600]  military put there?
[52:44.140 --> 52:48.300]  Well, it was a payphone in Iraq that I think... I could be wrong.
[52:48.400 --> 52:49.180]  Did you see... look at the picture.
[52:49.280 --> 52:55.500]  I think it might have been a British phone that was installed at a base in Iraq, but...
[52:55.820 --> 52:57.980]  Technically, it's not an Iraqi phone then, but I guess it is foreign.
[52:57.980 --> 52:59.800]  No, I have to look at the picture again.
[52:59.900 --> 53:00.480]  I don't have it in front of me.
[53:00.560 --> 53:01.680]  But it was a pretty good picture.
[53:01.720 --> 53:04.860]  Let's see if we can grab a couple of phone calls in the couple of minutes we have left.
[53:04.860 --> 53:06.640]  212-209-2900.
[53:06.800 --> 53:07.280]  And good evening.
[53:07.440 --> 53:08.100]  You're on the air.
[53:09.240 --> 53:09.740]  Go ahead.
[53:10.520 --> 53:10.900]  Yeah, hi.
[53:11.100 --> 53:16.440]  Just wanted to give you a big shout-out because I know you get a lot of calls.
[53:16.620 --> 53:23.180]  I just want to thank you for the last comment you just made regarding the letter that you got.
[53:23.560 --> 53:24.760]  And I just wanted to...
[53:24.760 --> 53:27.900]  I've been listening to your show for a while, but I haven't called in.
[53:28.000 --> 53:28.940]  This is my first time.
[53:28.940 --> 53:33.180]  I just wanted to let you guys know that you're doing a great job.
[53:33.340 --> 53:33.580]  Thanks.
[53:33.720 --> 53:34.480]  Thanks very much for calling.
[53:35.140 --> 53:35.680]  Bye-bye.
[53:35.940 --> 53:36.220]  Bye-bye.
[53:37.180 --> 53:37.960]  And good evening.
[53:38.000 --> 53:38.460]  You're on the air.
[53:39.980 --> 53:40.560]  Go ahead.
[53:40.980 --> 53:41.400]  Hello?
[53:41.660 --> 53:41.920]  Yes.
[53:42.300 --> 53:46.760]  Yeah, I'm just wondering, have you heard anything about the trial with Lynn Stewart?
[53:47.020 --> 53:47.740]  Is it over?
[53:48.620 --> 53:50.960]  The trial with Lynn Stewart.
[53:51.240 --> 53:52.200]  Do we know anything about that?
[53:53.380 --> 53:54.860]  Well, I do not believe it's over.
[53:55.060 --> 53:55.980]  No, I don't think it's over either.
[53:56.000 --> 53:57.100]  I think we would have heard something if it was.
[53:57.100 --> 54:06.400]  I suggest you listen to WBAI News, which airs every weeknight at 6 and 11, because it won't be covered in the mainstream media, but it will definitely be covered there.
[54:07.040 --> 54:08.120]  Thanks for your call.
[54:08.260 --> 54:09.340]  And thanks for paying attention, too.
[54:09.460 --> 54:10.220]  It's an important case.
[54:10.860 --> 54:11.320]  Good evening.
[54:11.380 --> 54:11.840]  You're on the air.
[54:12.320 --> 54:12.680]  Hi.
[54:12.920 --> 54:13.100]  Hi.
[54:13.500 --> 54:13.880]  Oh, good.
[54:14.140 --> 54:15.500]  Listen, I wanted to get a hold of it.
[54:15.540 --> 54:18.020]  Can I speak to you after you're done here, okay?
[54:18.020 --> 54:19.880]  I wanted to find out something, okay?
[54:19.940 --> 54:21.340]  Well, can you ask us on the air?
[54:21.960 --> 54:22.940]  Well, I don't know.
[54:23.020 --> 54:23.820]  I don't even know if you're covered.
[54:23.920 --> 54:24.480]  I'm sure you do.
[54:24.480 --> 54:30.300]  So, have you ever heard about the Echelon there where they can view into your house, whatever, electronically or so?
[54:30.940 --> 54:39.720]  I thought Echelon was a system whereby computers looked at your email, your voice conversations and such, and picked up keywords like AK-47.
[54:40.160 --> 54:41.160]  And things like that.
[54:41.260 --> 54:41.400]  Yeah.
[54:41.400 --> 54:43.060]  But what are you concerned with?
[54:43.820 --> 54:45.200]  I'd rather not...
[54:45.200 --> 54:49.820]  Can I speak to you after you're done here or what?
[54:50.200 --> 54:52.720]  Well, the phone service into the station is spotty at best.
[54:52.840 --> 54:57.680]  But, you know, we'll try to address your concerns if you either write to us or ask us on the air.
[54:57.760 --> 54:59.640]  You don't have to say who you are or anything like that.
[54:59.900 --> 55:01.160]  No, it's just a little bit...
[55:01.160 --> 55:02.400]  Yeah, I know, but it's...
[55:02.400 --> 55:03.760]  And that way you're helping other people, too.
[55:04.220 --> 55:05.660]  No, I realize that.
[55:05.740 --> 55:05.920]  I know.
[55:06.000 --> 55:06.940]  Good old BAI.
[55:08.060 --> 55:10.840]  You could come to the meeting this Friday and ask us in person.
[55:11.400 --> 55:11.600]  Good idea.
[55:11.760 --> 55:19.740]  The 2600 meeting takes place every Friday, every first Friday of the month at the Citigroup Center, 53rd, between 3rd and Lexington Avenue in New York City.
[55:20.200 --> 55:20.960]  Hold on, hold on.
[55:21.080 --> 55:21.620]  Something to all.
[55:21.760 --> 55:22.820]  Wait, just a second, please.
[55:23.300 --> 55:24.920]  We need to bring an ID with you now.
[55:25.120 --> 55:25.960]  No, you know what?
[55:25.960 --> 55:30.460]  I think that might not be the case anymore since they lowered the color level for financial institutions.
[55:30.580 --> 55:33.540]  I heard that emergency is over, so I don't think you actually have to show ID.
[55:34.320 --> 55:34.780]  Oh, good.
[55:34.940 --> 55:36.540]  Because I don't have a picture ID.
[55:37.080 --> 55:39.620]  You can get one made if you need one around the corner.
[55:39.680 --> 55:39.820]  I'm in Jersey.
[55:41.040 --> 55:46.440]  When I went for the license, I still held my ground and I didn't want the photo.
[55:46.660 --> 55:49.380]  And by the way, the guy behind me just said, good, another, no photo.
[55:50.080 --> 55:50.440]  Yeah.
[55:50.660 --> 55:51.940]  Well, it's almost turning into a movement.
[55:52.120 --> 55:52.660]  Thanks anyway.
[55:52.700 --> 55:54.760]  And we'll see you at the meeting, hopefully.
[55:55.580 --> 55:56.240]  Good evening.
[55:56.340 --> 55:57.140]  You're on the air.
[55:58.180 --> 55:58.540]  Yeah.
[55:58.640 --> 55:58.820]  Hi.
[56:13.760 --> 56:16.540]  I mean,
[56:25.900 --> 56:26.660]  I know.
[56:26.660 --> 56:30.660]  I know a lot of people don't respect pawns, but yeah, you have to look at it in that particular light.
[56:30.780 --> 56:31.400]  That's the way I do.
[56:31.540 --> 56:35.080]  I mean, I know a lot of people who I think are being misled, and they're good people.
[56:35.160 --> 56:38.560]  Just like I know a lot of cops who are, you know, basically good people.
[56:38.660 --> 56:40.500]  They are human beings, and we're all human beings.
[56:40.560 --> 56:47.780]  We have to try to relate to each other and realize what the true evil is and when people are being misled or just treated badly.
[56:47.960 --> 56:53.720]  I just want to say lastly that in this country, most of our news concentrate on the national scene.
[56:53.720 --> 56:57.700]  We don't get much of a perspective of the international community here.
[56:58.360 --> 57:06.080]  And I think that we basically are in the dark as to the way the rest of the world really feels about this whole matter.
[57:06.220 --> 57:06.940]  We certainly are.
[57:07.140 --> 57:07.600]  We certainly are.
[57:07.720 --> 57:09.000]  Thanks for your call.
[57:09.280 --> 57:11.780]  I just want to read one letter as we leave.
[57:12.640 --> 57:20.280]  Dear Off the Hook, I actually listened to the archive special of Off the Hook broadcast from the Fifth Hope Conference, and I heard my email read aloud at the conference in the second hour of the show.
[57:20.420 --> 57:21.700]  I never expected that.
[57:21.700 --> 57:24.200]  I honestly never even knew that you received my email.
[57:24.480 --> 57:25.420]  I'd just like to say it.
[57:25.440 --> 57:26.280]  This really touched me.
[57:26.380 --> 57:28.140]  I almost passed out when I heard it read aloud.
[57:28.360 --> 57:32.020]  I can't believe Kevin Mitnick technically, well, not really, knows my name.
[57:32.340 --> 57:32.940]  Thanks, guys.
[57:33.040 --> 57:34.140]  You made my day, my week.
[57:34.320 --> 57:35.420]  Hell, you made my century.
[57:36.000 --> 57:36.500]  Signed, Lee.
[57:36.720 --> 57:38.900]  What do you think is going to happen now that we read this on the air?
[57:39.920 --> 57:41.000]  Guy's going to go nuts.
[57:42.000 --> 57:44.100]  Vast amounts of email from vast amounts of people.
[57:44.400 --> 57:44.780]  All right.
[57:45.540 --> 57:46.660]  Okay, we're out of time.
[57:46.660 --> 57:51.620]  So I want to thank everybody for calling in and for listening and for writing and all that kind of thing.
[57:51.700 --> 57:56.360]  We'll be back again next week with more intrigue and adventure.
[57:56.860 --> 57:58.220]  Be sure to come to the meeting.
[57:58.460 --> 58:00.620]  Meetings take place all over the world, first Friday of the month.
[58:00.660 --> 58:01.920]  That's this Friday coming up.
[58:02.000 --> 58:07.440]  You can check www.2600.com slash meetings for more information.
[58:07.640 --> 58:10.400]  And you can write to us, OTH, at 2600.com.
[58:10.400 --> 58:11.780]  See you next week.
[58:40.260 --> 58:40.740]  1989!
[58:41.140 --> 58:41.620]  1989!
[58:41.920 --> 58:42.280]  The number!
[58:42.640 --> 58:43.440]  Another summer!
[58:44.480 --> 58:45.760]  Sound of the funky drummer!
[58:46.020 --> 58:48.440]  Music hitting your heart, cause I know you got soul!
[58:48.640 --> 58:49.680]  Nothing is just there!
[58:50.100 --> 58:51.640]  Listen if you're missing, y'all!
[58:51.860 --> 58:53.180]  Swinging while I'm singing!
[58:53.500 --> 58:53.560]  Hey!
[58:53.740 --> 58:54.540]  Giving what you're getting!
[58:54.860 --> 58:55.960]  Knowing what I know in!
[58:56.100 --> 58:57.680]  While the black band's sweating!
[58:57.900 --> 58:59.180]  In the rhythm I'm rolling!
[58:59.460 --> 59:00.540]  Gotta give us what we want!
[59:00.820 --> 59:01.060]  Uh!
[59:01.300 --> 59:02.520]  Gotta give us what we need!
[59:02.660 --> 59:02.960]  Hey!
[59:02.960 --> 59:05.720]  Our freedom of beat is freedom of death!
[59:05.900 --> 59:07.580]  We got to fight the powers that be!
[59:08.080 --> 59:09.280]  Fight the power!
[59:10.900 --> 59:12.120]  Fight the power!
[59:12.600 --> 59:13.780]  Fight the power!
[59:17.560 --> 59:18.320]  Fight the power!
[59:19.960 --> 59:20.900]  Fight the power!
[59:20.900 --> 59:21.140]  Fight the power!
[59:21.860 --> 59:22.820]  Fight the power!
[59:23.380 --> 59:25.680]  We got to fight the powers that be!
[59:26.060 --> 59:26.440]  Have
[59:34.460 --> 59:34.780]  your time!
[59:35.080 --> 59:39.880]  From the heart, it's a start, a work of art to revolutionize, make a change, something strange.
[59:39.880 --> 59:41.880]  People, people, we are the same.
[59:41.880 --> 59:43.080]  No, we're not the same.
[59:43.080 --> 59:44.360]  Cause we don't know the game.
[59:44.600 --> 59:45.960]  What we need is awareness.
[59:46.160 --> 59:47.320]  We can't get careless.
[59:47.640 --> 59:49.160]  You say, what is this?
[59:49.380 --> 59:51.860]  My beloved, let's get down to business.
[59:52.060 --> 59:53.500]  Mental, self-defense, or fitness.
[59:53.900 --> 59:55.080]  Don't rush the show.
[59:55.380 --> 59:57.220]  You got the goal for what you know.
[59:57.560 --> 59:59.360]  To make everybody see.
[59:59.600 --> 01:00:01.880]  In order to fight the powers that be.
[01:00:02.520 --> 01:00:03.620]  Fight the power.
[01:00:05.300 --> 01:00:06.420]  Fight the power.
[01:00:07.100 --> 01:00:08.080]  Fight the power.
[01:00:09.880 --> 01:00:10.980]  Fight the power.
[01:00:11.340 --> 01:00:12.660]  Fight the power.
[01:00:14.140 --> 01:00:15.520]  Fight the power.
[01:00:17.560 --> 01:00:20.020]  We've got to fight the powers that be.
[01:00:38.510 --> 01:00:39.830]  Fight the power.
[01:00:43.020 --> 01:00:44.380]  Fight the power.
[01:00:45.840 --> 01:00:47.200]  Fight the power.
[01:00:47.740 --> 01:00:48.920]  Fight the power.
[01:00:50.360 --> 01:00:51.720]  Fight the power.
[01:00:52.360 --> 01:00:53.360]  Fight the power.
[01:00:53.780 --> 01:00:56.240]  We've got to fight the powers that be.
[01:00:57.180 --> 01:01:01.340]  Elvis was a hero to most, but he... Elvis was a hero to most.
[01:01:01.480 --> 01:01:04.520]  Elvis was a hero to most, but he never meant.
[01:01:04.700 --> 01:01:08.120]  To me, it's he straight out racist, a sucker, was simple and plain.
[01:01:08.440 --> 01:01:09.720]  Motherf***ing man, John Wayne.
[01:01:09.800 --> 01:01:11.220]  Cause I'm black and I'm proud of him.
[01:01:11.220 --> 01:01:12.760]  Already I'm hyped cause I'm amped.
[01:01:12.980 --> 01:01:14.960]  Most of my heroes don't appear on those stamps.
[01:01:15.280 --> 01:01:19.400]  Sample, look back, you looking fine ugly, but redneck for 400 years if you check.
[01:01:19.540 --> 01:01:20.540]  Don't worry, be happy.
[01:01:20.640 --> 01:01:21.740]  Was the number one damn.
[01:01:22.040 --> 01:01:24.340]  Damn, if I said you could slap me right here.
[01:01:24.680 --> 01:01:24.920]  Get it.
[01:01:24.920 --> 01:01:27.360]  Let's get this party started right.
[01:01:27.400 --> 01:01:27.960]  Right on.
[01:01:28.100 --> 01:01:28.660]  Come on.
[01:01:28.860 --> 01:01:30.000]  What we got to say.
[01:01:30.340 --> 01:01:30.540]  Yeah.
[01:01:31.100 --> 01:01:31.980]  Power to the people.
[01:01:32.200 --> 01:01:32.720]  No delay.
[01:01:32.920 --> 01:01:34.420]  Make everybody see.
[01:01:34.700 --> 01:01:37.000]  In order to fight the powers that be.
[01:01:37.540 --> 01:01:38.680]  Fight the power.
[01:01:42.060 --> 01:01:43.220]  Fight the power.
[01:01:43.960 --> 01:01:44.400]  Fight the
[01:01:48.740 --> 01:01:49.700]  power.
[01:01:51.080 --> 01:01:52.200]  Fight the power.
[01:01:52.820 --> 01:01:55.100]  We've got to fight the powers that be.
[01:01:56.700 --> 01:01:57.260]  Aha.
[01:01:57.780 --> 01:02:00.260]  Stay tuned for the personal computer show coming up next.