[00:09.490 --> 00:17.590]  The New York Chapter of Physicians for Social Responsibility launches its What's Going On Lecture Series on January the 10th at 7 p.m.
[00:17.870 --> 00:21.950]  at the Interchurch Center, 475 Riverside Drive, New York City.
[00:22.230 --> 00:24.350]  Guest speaker will be Robert E.
[00:24.530 --> 00:36.050]  Fullalove, Ph.D., Associate Dean for Community and Minority Affairs at the Merriman School of Public Health, Columbia University, and co-director of the Community Research Group of the New York State Psychiatric Institute.
[00:36.050 --> 00:44.390]  Professor Fullalove will address the question, what are the most urgent public health threats facing poor people and people of color in New York City?
[00:44.550 --> 00:47.090]  And how can we defend against them and why?
[00:47.290 --> 00:48.950]  Join us for this free event.
[00:49.330 --> 00:51.870]  Seating is limited and light refreshments will be served.
[00:52.290 --> 00:57.470]  For more information, call 212-870-2980.
[00:57.970 --> 01:00.490]  Come out and find out what's going on.
[01:09.110 --> 01:12.470]  And you're listening to Radio Station WBAI in New York.
[01:12.670 --> 01:14.850]  The time is 7 o'clock on a Wednesday evening.
[01:15.290 --> 01:17.050]  Time for Off the Hook.
[01:22.120 --> 01:26.680]  The telephone keeps ringing, so I ripped it off the wall.
[01:27.560 --> 01:29.640]  I cut myself while shaving.
[01:30.260 --> 01:32.180]  Now I can't make a call.
[01:32.820 --> 01:35.000]  We couldn't get much worse.
[01:37.540 --> 01:40.460]  We won't do it, but we'll best expect the worst.
[01:40.960 --> 01:42.960]  I hope that's understood.
[01:43.160 --> 01:44.000]  Won't do it, let me go!
[02:12.200 --> 02:13.120]  And a good evening to everybody.
[02:13.220 --> 02:14.260]  The program is Off the Hook.
[02:14.360 --> 02:19.620]  Emmanuel Goldstein here with you back in New York after traveling around Europe for the last few weeks.
[02:19.980 --> 02:21.260]  Full cast of characters here.
[02:22.060 --> 02:26.340]  We are trying... actually, we're going to try this right now, live on the air.
[02:26.420 --> 02:28.960]  First, let me say hi to everybody and welcome back and all that kind of thing.
[02:29.560 --> 02:30.900]  Well, we're welcoming you back.
[02:31.080 --> 02:31.860]  Oh, yeah, I got that wrong.
[02:31.940 --> 02:32.720]  Okay, yeah, I'm back.
[02:33.140 --> 02:34.500]  Well, thanks for welcoming me.
[02:34.600 --> 02:35.540]  Not totally back.
[02:40.500 --> 02:40.860]  Procedures.
[02:40.940 --> 02:42.020]  I don't know if it's day or night.
[02:42.180 --> 02:43.780]  I'm not sure where I am, what's happening.
[02:44.100 --> 02:45.060]  I'm glad to be back, though.
[02:45.140 --> 02:47.200]  It's good to be back in the States.
[02:47.740 --> 02:48.780]  Kind of frustrating, though.
[02:49.500 --> 02:51.380]  No real problems crossing.
[02:51.620 --> 02:52.560]  No real security issues.
[02:52.680 --> 02:57.940]  Although I was... actually, Redbird, you were there in Amsterdam seeing me off because you were on a later flight.
[02:58.660 --> 03:04.700]  And you and our friends from Amsterdam were actually observing me being stopped by security almost immediately.
[03:05.160 --> 03:08.280]  Immediately as soon as I got onto line at the airline.
[03:09.400 --> 03:10.280]  It was kind of interesting.
[03:10.400 --> 03:11.080]  What did you see?
[03:12.240 --> 03:16.660]  You approached... I guess you were asking some questions about your ticket and, I mean, immediately...
[03:16.660 --> 03:17.720]  No, I didn't get a chance to ask anything.
[03:17.920 --> 03:18.100]  Okay.
[03:18.260 --> 03:22.960]  I just walked in and right away, like a bead of honey, the security guy came right over to me.
[03:23.420 --> 03:26.880]  And it was kind of weird because he asked me if I was checking any bags.
[03:27.000 --> 03:28.260]  And you know I don't like to check bags.
[03:28.380 --> 03:28.660]  Of course not.
[03:28.800 --> 03:31.820]  But I had three bags and the limit on the airline was one.
[03:32.040 --> 03:34.260]  So I figured, you know, well, I might have to.
[03:34.460 --> 03:35.740]  And that's how I answered him.
[03:38.280 --> 03:40.460]  And I guess, I don't know, he misinterpreted that.
[03:40.560 --> 03:41.720]  So he said, okay, come with me.
[03:41.820 --> 03:43.560]  And that's when he took me into the back room.
[03:44.480 --> 03:46.540]  And then he asked me which bag I was going to check.
[03:46.600 --> 03:48.680]  And I said, well, I don't want to check a bag.
[03:48.780 --> 03:50.420]  And he said, well, you just told me that you were going to check a bag.
[03:50.500 --> 03:51.220]  I said, no, I didn't.
[03:51.280 --> 03:53.660]  I said, I would like to not check a bag.
[03:53.740 --> 03:55.460]  But I have three bags and the limit is one.
[03:55.600 --> 03:56.880]  So maybe I'm going to check a bag.
[03:57.480 --> 03:59.820]  And he said, well, if you were going to check a bag, which bag would it be?
[03:59.900 --> 04:01.220]  And I said, well, I guess it would be that one.
[04:01.340 --> 04:02.460]  So he searched that bag.
[04:02.620 --> 04:04.200]  He didn't search any other bags.
[04:04.660 --> 04:08.420]  I mean, I don't know what kind of security that is, but it didn't seem like very stringent security.
[04:08.700 --> 04:10.060]  I could have pointed to any bag.
[04:10.200 --> 04:11.660]  He would have searched that one and not the others.
[04:12.020 --> 04:16.640]  So after he searched all my clothes, he put them all back, and I went on my way.
[04:16.680 --> 04:17.120]  And that was it.
[04:17.180 --> 04:20.940]  That was it as far as any kind of extra security that I had to go through.
[04:20.940 --> 04:21.900]  Did you check any bags?
[04:22.120 --> 04:22.740]  No, no.
[04:22.740 --> 04:25.160]  I was able to actually get three bags on where the limit was one.
[04:25.640 --> 04:26.240]  That's cheating.
[04:26.440 --> 04:34.540]  And it saved me a lot of time, and it also saved me a lot of time on this end, because when I got into this country, which also I should point out, some very interesting observations.
[04:34.700 --> 04:39.800]  First of all, it took me an hour to get into the country because of the vast amount of people that were getting off the planes.
[04:40.700 --> 04:42.760]  There were two different lines.
[04:42.880 --> 04:43.780]  This was in Newark, New Jersey.
[04:44.140 --> 04:47.660]  One line was for all the foreigners, and one line was for the Americans.
[04:47.920 --> 04:49.820]  And very, very long lines on both sides.
[04:50.000 --> 04:51.960]  And you have two different sets of windows.
[04:52.480 --> 05:01.060]  Now, I went to my window, and after waiting about 15 minutes, I finally got to the place where you tell the person where you've been.
[05:01.140 --> 05:03.100]  He stamps your passport, looks you over, that kind of thing.
[05:03.260 --> 05:04.900]  Funny thing, it was a Russian guy, too.
[05:05.040 --> 05:09.100]  So I'm answering this guy who has a very thick Russian accent as to what I was doing in Europe.
[05:09.540 --> 05:11.040]  It just felt kind of weird.
[05:11.880 --> 05:19.820]  And I noticed while he was asking me all these questions that, you know, the fingerprint machinery, that's such a controversy.
[05:20.080 --> 05:23.880]  All the foreigners that come into this country now have to be fingerprinted and have their eyeballs scanned.
[05:24.600 --> 05:26.920]  Those machines are on the American side, too.
[05:27.800 --> 05:28.220]  That's right.
[05:28.380 --> 05:29.880]  They can probably reallocate booths.
[05:29.880 --> 05:31.520]  They probably can, but why would they?
[05:31.860 --> 05:38.000]  I mean, they have a huge amount of windows on one side, and they have a amount of windows on the other side for the Americans.
[05:38.180 --> 05:38.460]  I don't know.
[05:38.520 --> 05:42.380]  Do they ever get just foreigners coming in that they have to have all of it for the foreign windows?
[05:42.380 --> 05:50.580]  It might be at some point that the lines are moving too swiftly for the taste of the Department of Homeland Security.
[05:50.700 --> 05:52.360]  So they have to close some windows, you know.
[05:52.360 --> 05:53.120]  It's possible.
[05:53.420 --> 05:54.360]  I'll grant that.
[05:54.480 --> 05:57.480]  But, you know, I don't think it's in their interest to speed up the lines.
[05:57.580 --> 05:59.000]  I think they like having long lines.
[05:59.180 --> 06:03.260]  It just seems like they like to yell at the crowds to stay within the boundaries.
[06:03.660 --> 06:06.580]  And, you know, speeding people up is not in their interest.
[06:06.700 --> 06:08.040]  People are missing flights all the time.
[06:08.240 --> 06:09.220]  That's just the way it is.
[06:09.300 --> 06:11.480]  I don't see them opening up all the windows for foreigners.
[06:11.480 --> 06:27.420]  I can see instances where you'll get a plane that might only be, say, 10% Americans because, you know, some obscure foreign holiday people coming back from that are mostly going to be people with green cards who have gone home for that holiday and not American citizens.
[06:27.840 --> 06:29.840]  Again, you know, I think it's possible.
[06:30.120 --> 06:31.200]  But I'll give you that.
[06:31.720 --> 06:40.360]  Also consider this possibility that they are simply installing them all for the day when they require us to put our fingerprints and eyeballs on the machine.
[06:41.480 --> 06:44.040]  Be too paranoid before you have any sort of indication.
[06:44.400 --> 06:46.440]  I don't think the word paranoid can apply anymore.
[06:46.580 --> 06:46.840]  All right?
[06:46.840 --> 06:50.280]  They're already scanning people's eyeballs when they come into the country and taking their fingerprints.
[06:50.440 --> 06:51.820]  I don't think we can be paranoid anymore.
[06:51.820 --> 06:52.900]  I think it's a question of realism.
[06:53.200 --> 06:55.340]  It's like tollbooths on the turnpike, okay?
[06:55.340 --> 06:56.340]  They're all identical.
[06:56.400 --> 06:59.000]  They're not all used for identical things necessarily.
[06:59.000 --> 07:01.820]  Yes, but they all can take easy pass now on the New Jersey side.
[07:02.040 --> 07:03.520]  Right, but they don't all...
[07:03.520 --> 07:04.640]  And one day they will in New York.
[07:04.900 --> 07:05.400]  All right?
[07:05.460 --> 07:07.540]  And I don't think it's being paranoid to assume that's going to happen.
[07:09.400 --> 07:10.040]  All right.
[07:10.280 --> 07:11.360]  Redhack, you had...
[07:11.360 --> 07:20.620]  No, I was just going to say, I mean, theoretically, if you had a flight come off and all the Americans had come through, you know, and then you have just these three unused boots, you could open it up for more people to come through.
[07:20.620 --> 07:21.740]  And that's what the guy said.
[07:21.740 --> 07:22.260]  I asked him.
[07:22.340 --> 07:24.080]  And he said, well, I don't think so.
[07:24.160 --> 07:28.740]  I mean, I'm asking this guy with a thick Russian accent if we're going to use the fingerprints for American citizens.
[07:28.820 --> 07:31.160]  He says, possibly, but I don't think so.
[07:31.340 --> 07:31.700]  All right?
[07:31.700 --> 07:32.560]  That's the official word
[07:37.840 --> 07:43.960]  that the day will never come when they use fingerprint scanners on American citizens entering the country.
[07:43.960 --> 07:47.240]  I think they'll probably have a national identification card that has that information first.
[07:47.360 --> 07:52.960]  Interesting you should say that because as of January 1st, the country where I thought such a thing would never happened, the Netherlands, it happened.
[07:53.120 --> 07:57.500]  January 1st, people are now required to carry identification cards at all times.
[07:58.440 --> 07:59.420]  And that's pretty scary.
[07:59.520 --> 08:02.840]  And people are already being stopped over there and asked for their papers.
[08:03.000 --> 08:09.880]  On the train, coming back from Germany, Redbird, you were there for this, we had customs officials from Holland go through the train.
[08:10.040 --> 08:15.620]  They came to me, of course, as they always do, and they wanted to see my papers, my passport, I guess.
[08:16.060 --> 08:28.160]  And our Dutch friends were pretty much of the belief that this was kind of a show of force to drive home the point that everybody needs to be carrying identification or they will get a lecture and later a fine.
[08:28.880 --> 08:34.560]  Well, they stopped questioning you immediately after our friends told them that you were with them.
[08:34.720 --> 08:34.880]  Yes.
[08:35.020 --> 08:38.080]  A few cold words and I was on my way.
[08:38.500 --> 08:43.680]  But, yeah, it's weird because you hardly ever see law enforcement of any sort over there.
[08:44.100 --> 08:46.560]  And yet I'm seeing sort of an increase.
[08:46.900 --> 08:50.260]  It's very strange walking around the streets and never seeing any cops.
[08:50.400 --> 08:56.540]  I mean, don't get me wrong, there are armed cops in the airports and very few other places.
[08:56.540 --> 08:58.760]  But for the most part, I mean, there's no cops at all.
[08:58.940 --> 08:59.440]  New Year's.
[08:59.960 --> 09:00.460]  That's right.
[09:00.500 --> 09:03.140]  You got to see New Year's in Amsterdam like I've done the last few years.
[09:03.240 --> 09:04.100]  Yeah, you were there last year.
[09:04.100 --> 09:04.260]  Yeah.
[09:06.420 --> 09:07.580]  That's pretty amazing.
[09:08.040 --> 09:10.440]  One final thing about entering the country, though.
[09:10.680 --> 09:14.200]  After I went through the, I guess that's passport control, right?
[09:14.220 --> 09:15.760]  The first part and then customs comes after.
[09:16.560 --> 09:18.140]  You go to the baggage claim area.
[09:18.240 --> 09:25.980]  Now, I didn't have any baggage to claim, but there were throngs of people there and they were all queuing up and there was a huge, huge line and all these people were getting upset about missing their flights.
[09:26.620 --> 09:35.780]  And so finally, I got to this lady who was just taking the cards that you fill out when you enter the country saying if you, what your name is, if you have anything to declare, that kind of thing.
[09:36.720 --> 09:43.560]  And she was just taking the cards and telling people where to go and I said, I have nothing, I'm not, I don't have any bags and I'm not waiting for a flight.
[09:43.640 --> 09:45.020]  So she said, okay, just go through that door.
[09:45.220 --> 09:46.140]  That door was the exit.
[09:46.660 --> 09:47.860]  There was nobody.
[09:48.140 --> 09:52.220]  And even if there was somebody, there was no way to check anybody at any further state.
[09:52.220 --> 09:54.500]  So I think there's a, there's a slight opening there.
[09:54.520 --> 10:02.460]  If it's really, really crowded, it all falls apart and they, they can't check anybody when they're coming into the country because there were just so many people there.
[10:02.560 --> 10:07.240]  So they just basically, everybody who didn't have bags to claim simply was, was sent to the exit.
[10:07.520 --> 10:08.880]  Never happened to me before like that.
[10:09.320 --> 10:10.140]  Very mysterious.
[10:10.440 --> 10:10.580]  Yeah.
[10:11.320 --> 10:19.040]  Now, I noticed also that the equipment that they seem to be using to scan your iris is, is like, it looked like a cheap $20 webcam.
[10:19.180 --> 10:19.840]  It did, it did.
[10:19.980 --> 10:23.980]  And if you notice, you're looking directly into it.
[10:24.240 --> 10:26.680]  So, I mean, they could be scanning it without you even knowing.
[10:26.800 --> 10:27.700]  I looked down on the floor.
[10:28.020 --> 10:28.860]  I was looking down.
[10:29.280 --> 10:30.840]  Eyes cast in that direction.
[10:30.840 --> 10:31.360]  Some of us aren't, so.
[10:31.360 --> 10:32.660]  Now, you went into JFK.
[10:33.020 --> 10:33.280]  Yes.
[10:33.440 --> 10:38.220]  Now, did you notice the same thing where those, those devices were at all the...
[10:38.220 --> 10:38.800]  All of them, yes.
[10:38.800 --> 10:39.800]  Even the one I went through.
[10:39.940 --> 10:47.960]  Now, okay, right there, right there, that's extremely efficient that in two airports, they've covered all the windows and every single window has one.
[10:48.100 --> 10:51.840]  And I, I maintain that efficiency is not something that these guys are good at.
[10:51.840 --> 10:53.260]  So, they've got an agenda.
[10:53.640 --> 10:58.600]  Now, could it be, I mean, well, is that system, that system is maintained by the Department of Homeland Security?
[10:58.760 --> 11:00.320]  It's not like the airport has to install it?
[11:00.420 --> 11:01.720]  No, it's DHS.
[11:01.920 --> 11:02.160]  Okay.
[11:02.400 --> 11:05.540]  Because I would say otherwise maybe the airports are just in case.
[11:05.680 --> 11:07.000]  They don't want to have to pay twice.
[11:07.140 --> 11:09.600]  And it's the same machinery too that you see at both airports.
[11:09.700 --> 11:12.780]  But if anyone else has any experiences with this, please let us know.
[11:12.940 --> 11:13.960]  We'd certainly like to know about that.
[11:14.040 --> 11:22.800]  And of course, any DHS agents out there who listen to the show who like to feed us information, please continue to do so because we certainly like to, to learn, as does everybody.
[11:23.420 --> 11:30.560]  Now, Redbird, you have some information here from somebody who also was able to scan part of their, their boarding pass.
[11:30.660 --> 11:31.820]  Now, you scanned your boarding pass.
[11:31.920 --> 11:33.160]  You were flagged on the way over there.
[11:33.240 --> 11:33.400]  Yes.
[11:33.540 --> 11:34.240]  With four S's.
[11:34.420 --> 11:39.660]  And you actually were able to run into the bathroom with a barcode scanner, scan the thing, and get some extra digits out of it.
[11:39.840 --> 11:40.000]  Right.
[11:40.160 --> 11:46.980]  There was, there was, there were some unknown data that we read last week that, that we didn't know exactly what it was.
[11:47.100 --> 11:48.320]  And also, do you have that data with you?
[11:48.440 --> 11:49.040]  I can get it.
[11:50.780 --> 11:52.500]  So far, nobody has cracked the code.
[11:52.680 --> 12:01.220]  But basically, what happened was Redbird was flagged with the four S's, which people are flagged with if they're deemed to be worthy of an additional security check.
[12:01.520 --> 12:08.700]  Now, there's a period of time when you get the boarding pass and go through security to when you actually have to give it up to the, to the airline where they rip it in half.
[12:09.120 --> 12:16.460]  And that particular period of time is when the magnetic strip can be read, preferably in the, in the men's room when nobody else will see you doing it.
[12:17.180 --> 12:19.720]  Once you give it up, you don't have access to that data anymore.
[12:19.720 --> 12:22.200]  So we have the data for this one particular one.
[12:22.540 --> 12:25.360]  And so far, we don't have anybody else who's given us that particular data.
[12:25.420 --> 12:26.300]  I know it's a lot to ask.
[12:26.480 --> 12:27.720]  Now, what are the extra digits?
[12:27.900 --> 12:40.080]  Well, on track two, which was, which didn't contain any data on the, on the, the one that I wasn't flagged on, contains a C, one, three, one, nine, zero, dash two, and then, and then six asterisks.
[12:40.380 --> 12:44.340]  So that's the unknown data for the, for the flagged ticket.
[12:44.880 --> 12:45.120]  Okay.
[12:45.600 --> 12:45.860]  Interesting.
[12:46.160 --> 12:47.940]  So if anybody knows what that means, please let us know.
[12:47.940 --> 12:48.180]  Right.
[12:48.280 --> 12:55.380]  Also on track one of both these tickets, the one where I was flagged has an S after your seat number and the one where I wasn't flagged has a G.
[12:55.740 --> 12:58.500]  So it's possible it's stop and go, but it might be something else.
[12:58.600 --> 12:59.040]  Who knows?
[12:59.280 --> 12:59.500]  Possibly.
[13:00.020 --> 13:05.060]  Now, we have somebody else who wrote in and has managed to scan some other part of their ticket.
[13:05.260 --> 13:05.540]  Yes.
[13:05.540 --> 13:06.200]  Tell us what this is.
[13:06.240 --> 13:07.280]  We have, all right, I'll read the letter.
[13:07.700 --> 13:12.960]  Hey guys, inspired by Redbird's boarding pass investigation of last week, I used a simple software-based barcode reader.
[13:13.140 --> 13:13.960]  There's your URL for that.
[13:14.020 --> 13:15.200]  I could read later.
[13:15.200 --> 13:18.200]  To read the codes on two boarding passes that I have.
[13:18.360 --> 13:21.360]  One pass has the four S's of additional security and the other does not.
[13:21.800 --> 13:26.160]  They are passes for two legs of a single trip printed at a check-in kiosk at the airport at the same time.
[13:26.880 --> 13:31.200]  Interestingly, there is no difference between the two except the flight number and seat number.
[13:31.300 --> 13:34.460]  No indication within the barcode of the additional security.
[13:34.760 --> 13:42.380]  When they scanned the code as I boarded the aircraft, however, the computer required the attendant to confirm the search, much like they do if you're seated in an exit row.
[13:42.560 --> 13:45.340]  The screen said search complete, yes, no, or something to that effect.
[13:45.740 --> 13:48.900]  The barcode on the pass with the S's contain the following.
[13:49.180 --> 13:51.560]  And then, this is the data.
[13:51.780 --> 13:53.400]  It's the person's last name,
[13:58.080 --> 14:00.720]  P202-234316B, and then in parentheses code 128.
[14:01.360 --> 14:07.140]  This is my last name, first initial flight number, 343, my seat number, and an unknown code.
[14:07.400 --> 14:12.220]  Well, code 128 being the type of barcode it is.
[14:12.340 --> 14:12.760]  Okay, right.
[14:12.880 --> 14:13.000]  Yeah.
[14:13.560 --> 14:18.100]  The other pass code contained contained the same thing, same last name,
[14:22.640 --> 14:23.080]  P077434315D.
[14:24.180 --> 14:26.840]  Different flight number and different seat, but other than that, they were the same.
[14:27.240 --> 14:29.680]  Okay, so no difference.
[14:29.960 --> 14:32.880]  No difference in a flagged boarding pass barcode.
[14:33.040 --> 14:35.080]  Not as far as we can tell from the barcode.
[14:35.160 --> 14:37.220]  And that tells me that the information isn't in the barcode.
[14:37.560 --> 14:38.220]  Probably not.
[14:38.220 --> 14:40.340]  Yeah, it makes a degree of sense, but the magnetic strip.
[14:40.880 --> 14:41.800]  It's in the four S's.
[14:41.920 --> 14:45.580]  Some of the boarding passes also don't have magnetic barcodes.
[14:45.920 --> 14:46.200]  That's the thing.
[14:46.920 --> 14:47.840]  Okay, well, we're learning.
[14:47.920 --> 14:49.920]  We're learning a lot about the system and how it operates.
[14:50.040 --> 14:51.880]  We just don't know exactly why it operates.
[14:53.480 --> 14:58.000]  Okay, and now we have this other development, computerized passports.
[14:58.020 --> 15:03.840]  They're going to be introduced as early as, well, it says here next spring.
[15:03.860 --> 15:05.820]  I'm not sure if that means the spring coming up.
[15:05.820 --> 15:08.620]  Yeah, I guess that would be next spring, not this spring, right?
[15:08.900 --> 15:10.420]  Computerized being that they have a chip in them?
[15:10.800 --> 15:13.120]  Yeah, before the end of the year.
[15:13.160 --> 15:14.060]  Okay, so it is this spring.
[15:14.220 --> 15:15.180]  The first U.S.
[15:15.680 --> 15:20.600]  biometric passport will be issued with a tiny computer chip, an antenna embedded inside it.
[15:20.700 --> 15:26.640]  The chip will contain a digital image of the person's face along with other information such as name, birth date, and birthplace.
[15:26.800 --> 15:30.660]  The data on the chip can be picked up wirelessly using a radio signal.
[15:30.980 --> 15:32.000]  Ah, there is the rub.
[15:32.520 --> 15:41.860]  When the traveler enters the United States, border control officials will snap a digital photo of the person, scan the data from the passport, and run a facial recognition software program to compare the two images.
[15:42.200 --> 15:44.660]  This is American citizens, by the way.
[15:45.440 --> 15:52.600]  The system is designed to prevent forged passports by making sure the original passport holder and the person standing at the immigration counter are one and the same.
[15:53.220 --> 15:54.680]  Now, what is the problem?
[15:54.760 --> 15:58.980]  The problem is the technical standard chosen for the system leaves passport data unprotected.
[15:59.180 --> 16:05.400]  The technology allows data on the chip to be read remotely using radio frequency identification or RFID.
[16:06.180 --> 16:10.240]  That means the passport does not have to be opened or even come in contact with a scanning device.
[16:10.400 --> 16:12.160]  Its contents can be read remotely.
[16:12.380 --> 16:17.580]  Some estimates claim as far away as 30 feet without the passport holder knowing anything about it.
[16:18.400 --> 16:20.480]  Now, what are they suggesting you do to protect yourself?
[16:20.800 --> 16:21.380]  Oh, I know.
[16:21.560 --> 16:22.240]  All right, what is it, Red Hat?
[16:22.260 --> 16:23.060]  Wrap it in tinfoil.
[16:23.120 --> 16:23.580]  That's right.
[16:23.680 --> 16:25.560]  Walk around with your passport wrapped in tinfoil.
[16:25.800 --> 16:27.620]  That's what we're going to be doing in the months ahead.
[16:28.540 --> 16:30.000]  Now, Redbird, you brought back something interesting
[16:33.200 --> 16:33.360]  was it?
[16:33.620 --> 16:37.540]  Yes, it was an RFID reader detector which is kind of interesting.
[16:37.780 --> 16:48.640]  It's a, it looks like just a loop of wire but it's a loop of wire capacitor which resonates at the frequency of RFID which is 13.56 if I recall correctly, megahertz.
[16:49.180 --> 16:54.000]  And then there's an LED which is powered by the current induced by by the reader itself.
[16:54.320 --> 17:03.100]  So you can kind of hold this little loop which kind of looks like a bracelet next to an RFID reader and it'll light up if it is indeed an RFID reader.
[17:03.160 --> 17:03.900]  Hold that up to the microphone.
[17:04.060 --> 17:04.560]  Wow, look at that.
[17:04.700 --> 17:27.000]  So it looks just like those copper bracelets that people use to combat arthritis but actually it's a little induction coil that you can wear as a bracelet to get through all sorts of security checkpoints with a little hidden RFID, a little hidden LED on it which isn't that well hidden because it's got what looks like scotch tape over it so if security looks at this and thinks it's an
[17:27.000 --> 17:31.060]  anti-arthritis bracelet they're going to wonder what that scotch tape is doing there.
[17:31.240 --> 17:33.320]  They're also going to wonder why it lights up when you walk past them.
[17:33.420 --> 17:35.820]  That's another even more so.
[17:36.660 --> 17:37.000]  Interesting.
[17:37.180 --> 17:39.280]  Now it has lit up for you since you got into this country?
[17:39.340 --> 17:48.160]  Oh yeah, you can check it at like standard RFID readers like security readers at the exits of places like Staples or any other...
[17:48.160 --> 17:49.220]  You've actually had it light up.
[17:49.340 --> 17:51.940]  We were trying to get it to light up in Europe and we were having enough success.
[17:52.240 --> 17:53.480]  They don't have as much security there.
[17:53.680 --> 17:54.860]  It doesn't seem like so.
[17:55.340 --> 17:55.660]  Interesting.
[17:56.680 --> 17:56.960]  Great.
[17:57.200 --> 17:59.200]  And these things were available at the CCC Congress.
[17:59.380 --> 17:59.560]  Yes.
[18:00.040 --> 18:02.600]  We'll have them in various other places too.
[18:03.220 --> 18:05.180]  I'm sure at What the Hack this summer.
[18:05.560 --> 18:08.480]  Which by the way Mike, I think you have some information on What the Hack right?
[18:08.600 --> 18:09.180]  No, you have it.
[18:09.400 --> 18:10.280]  I handed it to you.
[18:10.400 --> 18:11.280]  Yeah, but I handed it back.
[18:11.440 --> 18:12.060]  Why'd you hand it back?
[18:12.100 --> 18:13.480]  It has a phone number on it.
[18:13.580 --> 18:15.580]  Oh, you can't write on these things.
[18:16.360 --> 18:18.720]  Okay, why don't you tell us about What the Hack while I...
[18:19.160 --> 18:22.460]  Oh, you know This is very complicated.
[18:22.760 --> 18:23.160]  This is...
[18:23.160 --> 18:24.540]  Okay, I have it in my head now.
[18:24.600 --> 18:25.060]  Oh, okay.
[18:25.160 --> 18:35.200]  Well, What the Hack as we had an announcement last week is a conference that will be coming up this summer in Den Bosch which is...
[18:35.200 --> 18:37.540]  I'm pronouncing it wrong but it's in the Netherlands.
[18:38.160 --> 18:43.100]  It's from July 28 to 31 and I'm looking forward to it.
[18:43.220 --> 18:44.180]  Yeah, it's going to be a lot of fun.
[18:44.500 --> 18:52.920]  If you missed the conference four years ago how 2001 well, this is your chance to go to something else that will be just as good if not better.
[18:53.080 --> 18:58.620]  If you missed a CCC camp three years ago well, then this is a chance to...
[18:58.620 --> 18:59.880]  Was it three years ago or two years ago?
[18:59.960 --> 19:00.400]  A year and a half.
[19:00.680 --> 19:01.240]  A year and a half ago.
[19:01.380 --> 19:03.420]  Okay, well it will be two years ago by the time this happens.
[19:03.600 --> 19:03.680]  Okay.
[19:03.940 --> 19:04.500]  That's true.
[19:04.520 --> 19:05.660]  And that was the German camp.
[19:05.660 --> 19:07.960]  If you missed that well, this is going to be great as well.
[19:08.260 --> 19:10.660]  So definitely plan for your calendar.
[19:10.800 --> 19:11.600]  There's no hope this year.
[19:12.000 --> 19:13.120]  No hope conference that is.
[19:13.200 --> 19:13.620]  There's always hope.
[19:14.880 --> 19:19.800]  And we're planning on a hope next year so these things alternate with each other and it will be a lot of fun.
[19:19.940 --> 19:25.000]  Again, www.whatthehack.org That's hack not heck.
[19:25.280 --> 19:26.360]  I don't know what you get if you go there.
[19:26.660 --> 19:27.280]  Something else.
[19:27.680 --> 19:29.700]  This, I mean I'm sorry I'm just looking at the bracelet.
[19:29.860 --> 19:34.100]  So it just looks like an LED connected to a simple inductor man out of wire.
[19:34.540 --> 19:37.660]  So I mean if we just got the dimensions of this we could tell how to...
[19:37.660 --> 19:38.340]  There's a capacitor too.
[19:38.500 --> 19:39.160]  Oh, is there a capacitor?
[19:39.320 --> 19:40.400]  I can't see inside the tube.
[19:40.860 --> 19:41.000]  Yeah.
[19:41.000 --> 19:43.020]  But I mean you can make them pretty easily.
[19:43.240 --> 19:43.380]  Yeah.
[19:43.620 --> 19:46.060]  It looks like something anyone could make with the right wire.
[19:46.280 --> 19:52.080]  It's an example of the kinds of things that were going on at the conference where people were just coming up with these really crazy neat devices.
[19:52.360 --> 19:53.100]  What are some of the other things?
[19:53.640 --> 19:55.280]  The pinball machine that was playing itself?
[19:55.440 --> 19:56.280]  Oh yes, that was very cool.
[19:56.340 --> 19:57.020]  That was really cool.
[19:57.240 --> 20:02.220]  Mechanical pinball machine and it was playing itself and keeping the ball from going down the middle.
[20:02.360 --> 20:02.980]  Not all the time though.
[20:03.180 --> 20:04.080]  Hardware Pong as well.
[20:04.280 --> 20:07.780]  It was on Slashdot actually I remember and they had it there.
[20:07.900 --> 20:08.100]  It's great.
[20:08.300 --> 20:09.080]  What's Hardware Pong?
[20:09.200 --> 20:10.220]  It's like a relay computer.
[20:10.400 --> 20:13.540]  It's not, you know nothing modern and so it's very cool.
[20:13.840 --> 20:15.040]  It'll survive an EMP anyway.
[20:16.020 --> 20:19.640]  So it's really just a relay computer where you can play Pong on it.
[20:19.780 --> 20:20.040]  It's great.
[20:21.420 --> 20:21.860]  Fascinating.
[20:22.300 --> 20:24.140]  Okay, we should do something else this week.
[20:24.280 --> 20:24.740]  Bernie S.
[20:24.920 --> 20:25.960]  is in Thailand.
[20:26.380 --> 20:30.720]  He went ahead and went down to Thailand last week as you recall.
[20:30.980 --> 20:35.440]  He was on his way to the airport and we understand he has arrived in Thailand.
[20:35.660 --> 20:42.800]  We've gotten a couple pieces of email from him and we've programmed that toll-free number of ours to go where he is.
[20:43.160 --> 20:44.280]  We're having a little bit of trouble reaching.
[20:44.420 --> 20:45.420]  We're going to keep trying to reach him.
[20:45.800 --> 20:52.560]  But Mike, maybe you could tell us something about the toll-free service because we mentioned it a couple of weeks ago and we were bombarded with emails from people that wanted to know more about it.
[20:52.700 --> 20:55.280]  Tell us how it works and give people a website they can go to.
[20:55.500 --> 20:55.840]  Sure.
[20:56.080 --> 21:04.480]  The way it works as we've said is that there is a service that we have which allows us to control this toll-free number.
[21:04.580 --> 21:10.260]  So we can go on a website and change where the ring happens when you dial this number.
[21:10.680 --> 21:11.000]  Yeah.
[21:11.120 --> 21:14.160]  I mean, it might not sound like magic, but it really...
[21:14.840 --> 21:15.460]  Imagine this.
[21:15.540 --> 21:17.920]  Try forwarding your home phone to a number overseas.
[21:17.920 --> 21:18.760]  You can't do it.
[21:18.880 --> 21:20.060]  It's very difficult to do that.
[21:20.240 --> 21:21.820]  You certainly can't forward your cell phone.
[21:22.300 --> 21:23.780]  You can bring your cell phone overseas.
[21:24.020 --> 21:29.080]  But let's say you're in a situation like I was in where I'm in a foreign country and I want to do the radio show.
[21:29.720 --> 21:32.460]  It can be very expensive if you call a cell phone over there.
[21:32.640 --> 21:35.180]  I think it's like a dollar a minute roaming charges you have to pay.
[21:35.760 --> 21:39.780]  And of course, if you call a number overseas, then that gets expensive too.
[21:40.140 --> 21:43.420]  This is cheap because it's a low price per minute.
[21:43.560 --> 21:46.640]  It's something like 5 cents a minute or 8 cents a minute to certain foreign countries.
[21:46.960 --> 21:48.660]  More expensive to others like Thailand.
[21:48.660 --> 21:49.860]  That's going to be an expensive one.
[21:51.200 --> 21:53.620]  But as long as you call a landline, that's the trick.
[21:53.720 --> 21:57.340]  If you call a landline, if you're staying in a hotel or at a friend's house, it's very cheap.
[21:57.460 --> 21:59.280]  You call a cell phone, it gets a little bit more expensive.
[22:00.260 --> 22:01.060]  Which we're going to do.
[22:01.200 --> 22:02.960]  Yeah, we're calling a cell phone?
[22:03.080 --> 22:03.240]  Yeah.
[22:03.360 --> 22:04.300]  Oh, I didn't know that.
[22:04.400 --> 22:04.660]  Oh, well.
[22:04.760 --> 22:05.340]  It'll be exciting.
[22:05.580 --> 22:05.840]  Okay.
[22:06.260 --> 22:11.660]  But people have been bombarding us with emails wanting to know the company that provides the service.
[22:11.660 --> 22:12.600]  Because we forgot their name.
[22:12.700 --> 22:12.920]  Right.
[22:12.920 --> 22:17.480]  But I've remembered their name and their website is aitelephone.com.
[22:17.700 --> 22:19.560]  Couldn't remember aitelephone.com?
[22:19.760 --> 22:23.020]  Well, I know the name of the company is something telephonics.
[22:23.020 --> 22:26.180]  So I didn't know if the URL was telephone or telephonics.
[22:26.740 --> 22:27.240]  Okay.
[22:27.580 --> 22:29.040]  So that should be it.
[22:29.200 --> 22:33.060]  I mean, people should maybe remember aitelephone.com, artificial intelligence or something like that.
[22:33.100 --> 22:33.740]  Who knows?
[22:34.140 --> 22:34.420]  All right.
[22:34.520 --> 22:41.500]  So what this sound means is that we're about to try calling over to this number.
[22:42.580 --> 22:43.240]  All right.
[22:44.240 --> 22:51.360]  And we're going to hear a recording first telling us that our call is being transferred or processed.
[22:53.320 --> 22:55.940]  And if the call succeeds, we'll get Bernie S.
[22:56.220 --> 22:58.000]  If it fails, we'll get another recording.
[22:58.520 --> 22:59.500]  Let's see what happens.
[23:09.650 --> 23:11.210]  Your call is being connected.
[23:11.530 --> 23:11.630]  Please.
[23:13.790 --> 23:14.310]  Okay.
[23:29.270 --> 23:29.790]  Okay.
[23:29.930 --> 23:30.470]  That's a tie ring.
[23:31.330 --> 23:31.570]  Hello?
[23:31.830 --> 23:32.410]  Bernie S.
[23:33.750 --> 23:34.810]  Hello, Bernie S.
[23:36.550 --> 23:38.310]  Can you hear us, Bernie S?
[23:41.840 --> 23:43.220]  But, dropping it.
[23:43.900 --> 23:44.080]  Okay.
[23:44.280 --> 23:45.520]  I think we're having a little trouble here.
[23:46.140 --> 23:47.360]  Bernie, let's try this.
[23:47.520 --> 23:51.020]  I'll ask you a question and then I'll wait for your answer however long that might take.
[23:51.700 --> 23:52.980]  Can you hear my voice?
[24:01.690 --> 24:02.970]  That doesn't sound like you, Bernie.
[24:03.410 --> 24:08.530]  What do you mean there's no acknowledgement?
[24:08.590 --> 24:09.450]  I just talked to him.
[24:09.610 --> 24:12.010]  Just because he didn't answer the question, you're going to cut him off?
[24:15.070 --> 24:15.390]  Sorry.
[24:15.730 --> 24:18.690]  There is no acknowledgement from your requested number.
[24:19.470 --> 24:19.610]  All right.
[24:19.710 --> 24:21.170]  You know, that's awfully...
[24:21.830 --> 24:23.010]  This phone over here is ringing.
[24:23.090 --> 24:23.630]  This might be Bernie.
[24:23.690 --> 24:24.330]  Bernie, is this you?
[24:25.370 --> 24:26.410]  That doesn't sound like him either.
[24:26.610 --> 24:29.570]  But I think he's trying to reach us and we're trying to reach him.
[24:29.770 --> 24:31.710]  So, all right.
[24:31.790 --> 24:35.310]  If that line lights up again, somebody could answer it off air.
[24:36.310 --> 24:40.490]  And maybe if you can get the people in the studio to keep picking it up to not pick it up, that would make things a lot easier too.
[24:41.770 --> 24:42.250]  All right.
[24:42.410 --> 24:43.070]  We'll see what happens.
[24:44.750 --> 24:45.110]  Okay.
[24:45.170 --> 24:46.290]  We have other news stories as well.
[24:46.710 --> 24:47.890]  Bernie, though, is down there in Thailand.
[24:48.070 --> 24:55.610]  We're going to try and reach him and see what's going on over there and what kind of stories he might have.
[24:56.910 --> 24:59.510]  Mike, maybe you want to handle the phone since Jim seems to be afraid of it.
[25:01.110 --> 25:04.250]  We had some information on Arthur C.
[25:04.350 --> 25:05.590]  Clark who apparently is okay.
[25:05.830 --> 25:14.170]  If you go to www.planetary.org slash news slash 2004 slash Clark underscore 1229 dot html, you'll hear Arthur C.
[25:14.270 --> 25:17.090]  Clark's story about what happened during the tsunami over there.
[25:17.350 --> 25:18.390]  And is that Bernie?
[25:19.650 --> 25:21.190]  You guys have to pick up the phone.
[25:21.830 --> 25:22.710]  What's he waiting for?
[25:23.450 --> 25:24.170]  Arthur C.
[25:24.270 --> 25:25.150]  Clark can also be...
[25:25.150 --> 25:26.130]  Go ahead, Mike.
[25:26.530 --> 25:27.310]  Arthur C.
[25:27.390 --> 25:36.190]  Clark can also be found at Clark foundation.org That's Clark with an E at the end foundation.org Okay.
[25:36.970 --> 25:37.490]  All right, guys.
[25:37.570 --> 25:40.590]  If you pick up the phone in less than 30 seconds, you might have a chance of getting him.
[25:40.930 --> 25:43.810]  So maybe Mike should sit near the phone since you don't want to touch the phone.
[25:44.070 --> 25:44.290]  All right.
[25:46.530 --> 25:52.610]  We have other kinds of tsunami news as well, including this story that appeared yesterday in the Herald Tribune.
[25:52.650 --> 25:54.690]  I read this on the airplane, and I thought this was pretty interesting.
[25:55.530 --> 26:06.050]  When the tsunami hit Sri Lanka, people found they couldn't make phone calls on their mobile phones or even regular landlines, but guess what they could do?
[26:06.270 --> 26:10.030]  They could send and receive text messages from cell phones.
[26:10.690 --> 26:22.170]  So what they are looking at right now is the possibility of using SMS technology to warn people about situations like the tsunami where a lot of people didn't know what was going on.
[26:22.490 --> 26:28.650]  Experts say that thousands of deaths might have been avoided if warning systems have been in place to alert the people around the rim of the Indian Ocean of the tsunami.
[26:28.890 --> 26:30.750]  No such system exists there now.
[26:30.910 --> 26:35.270]  And I don't know if a system really exists here either that would get to us quickly.
[26:36.650 --> 26:49.190]  Those who design and use the wireless technology known as short message service or SMS currently used for chatter and advertisements say it could be used to jumpstart governments nationwide and regional warning networks.
[26:49.830 --> 27:05.970]  This tragedy is going to put this more to the forefront, said Greg Wilfart, co-founder of SMS.ac, a company that sells text message services in more than 170 countries and has millions of subscribers in India, Malaysia, and Indonesia alone.
[27:06.110 --> 27:16.910]  The technology is wildly popular worldwide and has accompanied the international boom in mobile phone use where wireless technology helps nations to leapfrog antiquated governmental telephone networks.
[27:17.110 --> 27:20.810]  Even in parts of the developing world, mobile phones are everywhere.
[27:20.810 --> 27:28.850]  Almost half the Malaysian population uses them, according to a recent survey released by the Malaysian Communications and Multimedia Commission.
[27:29.290 --> 27:34.950]  Three out of four of the more than 12 million subscribers send and receive text messages according to the survey.
[27:35.050 --> 27:36.110]  We'll have a little more on that later.
[27:36.290 --> 27:37.270]  Bernie, are you with us?
[27:38.430 --> 27:43.110]  Yes, I'm on an island off the coast of Cambodia right now.
[27:43.990 --> 27:45.270]  Okay, you sound pretty good.
[27:46.370 --> 27:50.370]  So, tell us what you've experienced in the week that you've been over there.
[27:51.110 --> 27:54.630]  It's been a pretty bizarre and adventurous week here in Thailand.
[27:56.370 --> 28:13.410]  There's been some odd events related to the tsunami disaster off near the island of Phuket where I was going to be right now, but for obvious reasons, it's not a good idea for me to go there.
[28:14.330 --> 28:15.770]  there's this weird
[28:19.010 --> 28:21.130]  dispute over the use of technology.
[28:22.470 --> 28:34.070]  The country is implanting RFID microchips into the heads of all the non-Asian bodies that are being recovered.
[28:34.890 --> 28:38.270]  Approximately a thousand bodies have been implanted.
[28:38.530 --> 28:57.190]  Their heads have been implanted with these RFID microchips encoded with the information like where the body was found, the date and time it was found, any identifying marks like tattoos, scars, that sort of thing, because those things might not last if the flesh starts rotting.
[28:57.190 --> 28:58.030]  I'm sorry for this.
[28:58.330 --> 29:13.090]  It sounds rather bleak, but the controversy is not just that, but the non-Asian bodies, presumably ties, are not being refrigerated.
[29:13.330 --> 29:28.630]  So apparently the government is just refrigerating the tourist bodies, who are apparently tourist bodies, and burying the ties of the locals quickly without any identifying information, in some cases in mass graves.
[29:28.990 --> 29:31.970]  So there's this really bizarre use of RFID technology.
[29:32.530 --> 29:48.570]  And I think maybe the reason the government is doing this is because, for economic reasons, the tourists here spend a lot of money, while the average time makes an equivalent of about $55 a year.
[29:48.970 --> 29:51.850]  And each tourist probably spends that much in a day.
[29:51.990 --> 29:58.230]  There aren't very many American tourists here, almost none at all, but a lot from Scandinavia and Western Europe.
[29:59.670 --> 30:08.410]  Is there a particular method they're using to discover whether somebody washing up on the shore is a tourist or a native, just the way they look perhaps?
[30:09.850 --> 30:12.770]  Apparently, yes, just from their physical appearance.
[30:13.030 --> 30:20.310]  I mean, there's nothing else to go on, unless they might have had some identifying documents with them that weren't washed out of their clothing.
[30:20.510 --> 30:23.310]  In fact, if they were wearing anything other than a swimsuit.
[30:24.770 --> 30:28.530]  But, you know, that's not likely that they're going to have documents on them.
[30:28.610 --> 30:29.990]  So they're just making judgment call.
[30:30.190 --> 30:41.290]  This looks like it could be a tourist, so we'll refrigerate this body and put a microchip in its head for a later identification so that, you know, their family can reclaim the bodies.
[30:41.650 --> 30:52.950]  Whereas the Asian bodies, or apparently Thai bodies, are not not being tagged or refrigerated and just quickly buried.
[30:53.090 --> 30:54.490]  And there's been a lot of controversy about that.
[30:54.590 --> 30:57.710]  It was reported on Deutsche Welle news last night.
[30:58.910 --> 31:01.610]  And there aren't very many English-language newspapers here.
[31:01.710 --> 31:10.330]  There's just two, the Bangkok Post and something called The Nation, which is actually pretty good, not to be confused with the magazine called The Nation in the U.S.
[31:10.450 --> 31:13.290]  But neither of those papers are available on this island where I am.
[31:13.470 --> 31:21.610]  I'm just getting onto a ferry in a few minutes here to taking it to a small airstrip called Trat.
[31:21.910 --> 31:26.570]  And from there, I'll be taking a small prop plane to Bangkok.
[31:27.090 --> 31:33.030]  And then from there, another prop plane to Surat Thani, which is in southern Thailand.
[31:33.030 --> 31:38.670]  And then I'll be taking a long railroad trip from there back to Bangkok.
[31:38.850 --> 31:48.550]  I know that sounds circuitous, but I want to go up along the coastline on a railroad, which is probably a 10-hour trip, just to see what can be seen.
[31:49.410 --> 31:51.030]  Is this the coastline that was affected?
[31:52.150 --> 31:52.530]  No.
[31:52.750 --> 31:54.010]  Well, part of it may be.
[31:54.850 --> 31:56.350]  At some point, it gets narrowed.
[31:56.470 --> 31:59.990]  Primarily, it'll be the eastern coastline, which was not as affected.
[32:00.710 --> 32:03.550]  But the western coastline, I think, will be touching parts of that.
[32:05.210 --> 32:08.910]  But primarily, I wanted to see as much of this country as possible.
[32:09.090 --> 32:12.090]  And going by railroad seemed to be the best way to do that.
[32:12.090 --> 32:15.630]  Can you tell us something about the mood of the country right now?
[32:15.630 --> 32:21.230]  Obviously, they've suffered a tremendous loss, but how is that manifesting itself in day-to-day life?
[32:21.910 --> 32:24.110]  It's quite somber, understandably.
[32:24.230 --> 32:28.230]  I mean, the scope of this is really mind-boggling.
[32:28.390 --> 32:30.230]  I mean, you can imagine...
[32:30.230 --> 32:36.210]  We can all remember what 9-11 was like to us, where 3,000 of our people were killed suddenly.
[32:38.250 --> 32:48.470]  Here, not just in Thailand, but in all of Southeast Asia, and in India, Indonesia, hundreds of thousands of people were killed.
[32:49.310 --> 32:52.130]  Well over 100,000, probably close to 200 at this point.
[32:52.350 --> 32:57.190]  And there's a lot of these people they just can't find, which may end up being the case forever.
[32:57.190 --> 33:15.610]  But the New Year's celebrations in Bangkok, where I was the day I landed, December 31st, the Prime Minister announced that there should be no New Year's celebrations in light of the tsunami disaster, which is quite understandable.
[33:15.810 --> 33:23.650]  So there was, in stark contrast to my New Year's in Amsterdam, which was just an amazing celebration.
[33:23.650 --> 33:30.990]  There really was no celebration here in Bangkok due to the somber mood, which is quite understandable.
[33:33.010 --> 33:33.310]  Absolutely.
[33:34.930 --> 33:37.670]  Another thing I wanted to mention is this is a much smaller country.
[33:37.830 --> 33:42.390]  I don't know what the population of Thailand is, but it's a fraction of the United States.
[33:42.690 --> 33:52.650]  So as a percentage of the overall population, this was thousands, probably about 5,000 people were killed in Thailand alone, many of them tourists.
[33:52.650 --> 33:55.710]  And, which is really their economic mainstay here.
[33:56.730 --> 34:04.710]  You can imagine the scope and the size of the laws here compared to our 9-11.
[34:05.010 --> 34:09.170]  And I'm not sure what kind of coverage this is getting in the U.S.
[34:09.170 --> 34:12.110]  I know it's been covered, but maybe not to the extent that 9-11 was.
[34:12.290 --> 34:23.590]  I heard that yesterday on Deutsche Ville, there was an announcement that there'd be a three-minute period of silence around the world honoring the dead here.
[34:23.630 --> 34:24.010]  Is that correct?
[34:24.230 --> 34:25.890]  Well, I do know that that took place in Europe.
[34:26.050 --> 34:29.830]  Cities throughout Europe observed three minutes of silence yesterday.
[34:29.830 --> 34:31.390]  I don't know if that happened in the United States.
[34:31.390 --> 34:32.410]  I wasn't actually here.
[34:32.690 --> 34:34.930]  People here are shaking their heads, so I don't think anybody knows about it.
[34:34.930 --> 34:50.230]  And it's interesting because I think, as always, we've sort of put this aside and are focusing on our trivial day-to-day matters, which is unfortunate because this is certainly a tragedy that affects, I think, every corner of the world in some way.
[34:51.550 --> 34:53.890]  Bernie, what is it that people over there need?
[34:53.890 --> 34:54.930]  How can we help?
[34:55.050 --> 34:56.990]  Do you have a sense as to the best way we can do that?
[34:58.410 --> 35:09.370]  Really, all the international aid organizations are urging people to really send money because it's just not feasible for people to send supplies.
[35:09.370 --> 35:15.770]  The cost to transport them and get them in the right hands really exceeds the cost of the supplies themselves.
[35:15.770 --> 35:16.930]  It's just not cost-effective.
[35:17.210 --> 35:36.270]  But major relief organizations that have an infrastructure here, like the Red Cross, Doctors Without Borders, Care, or some others, are really worth supporting and they can probably put the aid to best use with just dollars or whatever currency you happen to have.
[35:36.570 --> 35:38.030]  So they all have websites.
[35:38.270 --> 35:39.850]  They can be easily looked up on the Internet.
[35:40.790 --> 35:55.170]  And this is, you know, apparently the political support from countries like the United States is not nearly what is going to be necessary to help address the situation.
[35:56.550 --> 35:58.450]  It's not just, like, what's the point?
[35:58.470 --> 35:58.950]  What's the point?
[35:59.030 --> 35:59.910]  People are dead already.
[36:00.070 --> 36:02.050]  There's nothing that can be spent to bring them back.
[36:02.190 --> 36:19.790]  But the post-disaster situation with all the disease due to there being no health infrastructure, no clean water, no food, no communications, that needs immediate, need to be addressed immediately.
[36:20.070 --> 36:24.010]  So anybody that can lend financial support that way is good.
[36:24.010 --> 36:36.110]  I happen to be coming to this area, so I brought a lot of medical supplies with me and dropped them off at a drop-off center on the outskirts of Thailand where there was a huge mountain of donated supplies.
[36:36.490 --> 36:37.790]  It was amazing.
[36:37.790 --> 36:54.790]  There were some Red Cross people there, and it was just piles and piles of plastic bags full of medical supplies, clothing, bottles of, you know, just pallets and pallets and pallets of bottled water ready to be flown down to the Phuket area.
[36:55.330 --> 36:59.350]  So it was encouraging to see that much aid, but I'm sure that was a small fraction of what's needed.
[37:00.550 --> 37:00.990]  Absolutely.
[37:00.990 --> 37:06.430]  And as you said, money is probably the best way to get what is needed there.
[37:06.430 --> 37:12.230]  Now, I know both Apple.com and Amazon.com have links to the American Red Cross.
[37:12.610 --> 37:17.650]  eBay is allowing sellers to donate 10% to 100% of their proceeds to UNICEF.
[37:18.510 --> 37:21.790]  And there's all kinds of other things going on online as well.
[37:21.830 --> 37:25.790]  So there's certainly no lack of ways for you to contribute.
[37:25.910 --> 37:27.950]  So please, we urge people to do that.
[37:28.050 --> 37:29.270]  Bernie, what's ahead for you?
[37:29.330 --> 37:29.870]  What are you planning?
[37:30.150 --> 37:40.870]  Apart from you're going over to Bangkok, I know, but are you going to be looking at anything specifically, any parts of this trip that might not be affected by the disaster?
[37:42.290 --> 37:56.630]  Well, as I mentioned, I'm heading to Bangkok, taking a ferry to the Trat airstrip, and then Bangkok, and then another prop plane to Surat Thani in southern Thailand, and then the railroad tomorrow back to Bangkok, which is about a 10-hour trip, then one more night back in Bangkok,
[37:56.830 --> 37:58.130]  and then back to the States.
[37:59.550 --> 38:05.910]  Some of the things I have noticed here, when I spent the first few days here in Bangkok before coming down here to the islands.
[38:06.350 --> 38:13.770]  And I was really amazed and continue to be amazed by the technical savvy of a lot of the Thai people.
[38:15.430 --> 38:25.990]  Here on this island, there's not much of a communications infrastructure from a standpoint of a wire line, phone lines, but they have a pretty good GSM infrastructure, which I'm using right now.
[38:25.990 --> 38:30.950]  I bought a phone for 2,600 baht last night.
[38:31.070 --> 38:32.410]  That baht is their unit of currency.
[38:32.570 --> 38:36.470]  A baht is worth about two and a half cents to us.
[38:36.630 --> 38:45.730]  So it was about a $65 phone purchase, and I bought a SIM card for it from a woman who had a little internet cafe.
[38:46.410 --> 38:49.770]  She proudly showed me her collection of used SIM cards.
[38:49.930 --> 38:57.390]  She had probably about 1,000 SIM cards, which all have different motifs, like cartoon characters and movie stars, all kinds of stuff on them.
[38:57.530 --> 38:58.970]  She was very proud to show me that.
[38:59.570 --> 39:06.270]  And her internet cafe, its connectivity was a satellite DSL connection.
[39:06.270 --> 39:11.950]  And everybody here who has internet connectivity has so via satellite from this island.
[39:12.230 --> 39:22.910]  There is a microwave link from this island to the mainland of Thailand, which provides some other connectivity.
[39:23.170 --> 39:30.590]  But it seems like all the internet cafes and hotels are exclusively connected via satellite to the internet.
[39:30.590 --> 39:32.370]  And they use GSM phones.
[39:32.370 --> 39:39.530]  And the link to the GSM network is via microwave over the water to the mainland.
[39:40.130 --> 39:49.050]  It's interesting because right before we started talking to you, we were talking about how SMS can play parts in alerting people to disasters.
[39:49.170 --> 39:58.770]  I know last week you mentioned that had they only sent the alert over, say, CNN or something, a lot more people might have known about the impending tsunami and maybe had gotten out in time, but that hadn't been done.
[39:59.470 --> 40:15.910]  What's being proposed now is that people use SMS technology to warn people because almost everybody, they say three out of four of the more than 12 million subscribers over in Malaysia, for instance, send and receive text messages.
[40:16.690 --> 40:25.150]  According to this guy at the Asia-Pacific Research Group, Steve O'Rourke, Grass Valley, California, he says the way they use the cell phones over there makes us look like amateurs.
[40:25.470 --> 40:29.130]  I could be riding an elephant in the middle of Thailand and my phone would work.
[40:29.930 --> 40:32.030]  Now, Bernie, you have to do that now.
[40:32.230 --> 40:35.450]  As a matter of fact, I was riding an elephant in the middle of Thailand yesterday.
[40:35.810 --> 40:36.330]  All right then.
[40:37.390 --> 40:43.770]  And right where the elephants were being kept, people were using their GSM phones and sending SMS messages.
[40:43.770 --> 40:47.270]  It was just an amazing contrast in technologies.
[40:47.590 --> 40:48.630]  Now, imagine that.
[40:48.950 --> 40:54.150]  Everybody, not everybody is on the Internet, obviously, and if they are on the Internet, they're not on the Internet all the time.
[40:54.150 --> 40:55.590]  I can't look at my email right now.
[40:56.290 --> 41:00.050]  Certainly not everybody has a television set and certainly not everybody can watch TV all the time.
[41:00.230 --> 41:04.530]  But most people seem to have a phone on them, on their person.
[41:04.730 --> 41:10.070]  So if that phone were to beep and say, a tsunami is on the way, the word would get out.
[41:10.190 --> 41:13.370]  And those people who didn't have phones, they'd hear about it from the people next to them who did.
[41:13.950 --> 41:15.230]  And it just seems like...
[41:15.230 --> 41:19.090]  I can't think of a single reason why the technology shouldn't be used in that method.
[41:19.170 --> 41:23.190]  Of course, it could be abused, you know, by governments for all kinds of reasons.
[41:23.190 --> 41:27.090]  But I think for something of this nature, it definitely should be in place.
[41:27.270 --> 41:28.590]  Can you think of a reason why it shouldn't be?
[41:29.010 --> 41:36.130]  There was a lot of talk about this right after 9-11, that we need some sort of method to alert everybody by cell phone that things are happening or whatever.
[41:37.050 --> 41:39.390]  But I don't think that came to pass in the U.S.
[41:39.490 --> 41:43.410]  And it's going to be a long time, I think, before it comes to pass here.
[41:43.650 --> 41:47.410]  Well, they were talking about stupid things like the color code changing of the alert system.
[41:47.550 --> 41:48.370]  I don't mean things like that.
[41:48.370 --> 41:52.870]  I mean, real disasters like this, where lives could be saved.
[41:53.230 --> 41:58.650]  You know, it seems to me like that, it doesn't require much thinking to realize that's a damn good idea.
[41:58.690 --> 42:00.570]  Even young people here, younger...
[42:00.570 --> 42:10.670]  I've seen people here, pies, children carrying around cell phones that are typically younger than the children I see in the United States carrying a GSM phone.
[42:10.670 --> 42:18.050]  So it's a widespread technology, especially in an island like this, where there's no traditional communications infrastructure.
[42:19.470 --> 42:37.090]  Something else I noticed about Thailand, specifically in the Bangkok area, but also here on the island where I am now, is really how they treat intellectual property.
[42:37.090 --> 42:38.510]  It's basically a free-for-all.
[42:39.250 --> 42:50.370]  I have never seen in my life so many counterfeit music CDs and counterfeit DVDs, both movies and video games.
[42:50.990 --> 43:02.770]  You can buy a very good knockoff of an audio CD for 100 baht, which is a couple dollars.
[43:02.770 --> 43:12.870]  And you can buy a DVD, a direct digital duplicate of a DVD here, with any movie, even movies that just came out, for equivalent of about $4.
[43:13.550 --> 43:20.870]  And there's these stands everywhere around the sections of Bangkok just selling thousands and thousands of these things.
[43:20.930 --> 43:35.530]  It's just amazing seeing this intellectual property free-for-all, which I guess, like the MPAA and the RIAA have not really addressed here in this country very much, maybe because it's just not a major market.
[43:35.530 --> 43:36.150]  I'm not sure.
[43:36.290 --> 43:45.430]  But basically anybody can buy any intellectual property they want that's from a digital media standpoint here for very little money.
[43:46.190 --> 43:48.870]  I just wanted to say about the SMS idea.
[43:49.050 --> 43:53.410]  I mean, it sort of just sounds like extending the emergency broadcast system that they have in place for...
[43:53.410 --> 43:57.630]  Not extending, not the same technology, but the idea of it that they have in place for television.
[43:57.770 --> 43:58.690]  No, you're watching television.
[43:58.830 --> 44:04.210]  And if there's an emergency, although I think it's only the broadcast channels that do that, not cable.
[44:04.470 --> 44:04.850]  Or is it all...
[44:04.850 --> 44:05.750]  I think it's cable and...
[44:05.750 --> 44:09.130]  Everybody is watching television or listening to the radio all the time.
[44:09.150 --> 44:10.190]  Right, but a lot of people have...
[44:10.190 --> 44:12.250]  Everybody who has a cell phone carries it with them all the time.
[44:12.350 --> 44:16.010]  The problem is in this country, and I've noticed this because I was just traveling overseas.
[44:16.350 --> 44:20.430]  People in this country just are not savvy enough with things like SMS.
[44:20.970 --> 44:26.690]  We don't text message each other as often or as efficiently as people in other parts of the world do.
[44:26.910 --> 44:36.730]  Instead, we make phone calls, loud phone calls, lengthy phone calls, wasteful phone calls, when a simple one or two word message might suffice to get something across.
[44:37.270 --> 44:44.330]  And, you know, ask yourself on your phone, if you have a cell phone and you're listening to us in the United States, do you know how to SMS?
[44:44.630 --> 44:45.950]  Is it easy for you?
[44:46.070 --> 44:47.890]  Do they make you jump through hoops to do this?
[44:48.150 --> 44:54.670]  A lot of people use phone companies where it's difficult and they make it as hard as possible and it's also expensive.
[44:55.210 --> 44:59.090]  I've had people tell me, don't send me text messages because it costs me too much money.
[44:59.830 --> 45:03.890]  It should cost less money to get a text message and a phone call or it shouldn't cost anything at all.
[45:04.670 --> 45:05.770]  The thing with it here...
[45:05.770 --> 45:09.950]  It's really one of the worst offenders for not supporting SMS for years up until about a year or so ago.
[45:10.030 --> 45:12.170]  They didn't even support standard SMS messaging.
[45:12.350 --> 45:12.490]  Yeah.
[45:12.770 --> 45:14.910]  Which is standard with almost every other carrier.
[45:15.470 --> 45:19.930]  And even now to use it, you have to do this, go log on to their goofy wireless web thing.
[45:20.110 --> 45:24.230]  It's called Logon Procedure and that takes quite a few seconds.
[45:24.610 --> 45:29.010]  And then it's just this really awkward method of doing it with Sprint, PCS.
[45:29.170 --> 45:31.130]  So some of the other carriers are better.
[45:31.250 --> 45:32.990]  But I think it really comes down to Americans.
[45:32.990 --> 45:36.730]  They're not demanding this like other people in other countries are.
[45:36.890 --> 45:42.450]  I can see a six-year-old kid here panning out SMS messages with, you know, you can hardly see their fingers.
[45:42.590 --> 45:43.450]  They're flying so fast.
[45:44.890 --> 45:46.250]  Typing out SMS messages.
[45:46.590 --> 45:48.510]  There's no reason Americans can't do the same thing.
[45:48.690 --> 45:53.090]  Well, the thing about it in the States is generally with the providers, it's an extra...
[45:53.090 --> 45:57.770]  I think in Europe and other countries it's just, you know, you can send SMS and it doesn't cost you anything.
[45:57.850 --> 45:59.630]  And in the States, it's actually an extra thing.
[45:59.830 --> 46:05.910]  So everybody has to, you know, if you don't pay a certain amount per month to have a certain number of text messages, then you're paying per message.
[46:06.070 --> 46:08.650]  And I just think people don't want to deal with that.
[46:08.770 --> 46:15.310]  Whereas in other countries, it's, as I've seen it, it's generally just free, you know, because it doesn't really cost the phone company anything.
[46:15.490 --> 46:20.450]  But here, for me, for example, I don't have, you know, I pay per message if I use it.
[46:20.530 --> 46:25.770]  So I'd rather just someone call me because I have, you know, 800 minutes a month that I'm never going to use.
[46:26.570 --> 46:31.470]  So I think that's maybe a reason why it also hasn't caught on here.
[46:31.630 --> 46:34.730]  Bernie, are you able to receive text messages on the phone that you have now?
[46:35.670 --> 46:37.110]  Yes, I did receive a test.
[46:37.270 --> 46:44.250]  I only received one text, one test text message from this woman named Ma'am who I purchased the phone from.
[46:44.370 --> 46:45.950]  Okay, well, I just sent you one this very second.
[46:46.050 --> 46:52.370]  So let us know if you get it while this show is still going on because it's good to be able to message people.
[46:53.030 --> 47:01.110]  Well, it has not appeared on the handset yet and I'm not sure if it's set for mode where it will display that a new message is here while I'm talking on the phone.
[47:01.250 --> 47:04.350]  Okay, well, if it doesn't, just let me know at some point if you get it.
[47:04.490 --> 47:05.970]  It's nice to know the technology works.
[47:06.750 --> 47:10.330]  I'm literally on the other side of the planet from where you are in New York.
[47:10.530 --> 47:12.830]  We're 12 hours time zone difference.
[47:12.990 --> 47:17.690]  So it's about 10 minutes what is it, what is it, about 10 minutes to 8 Tuesday night there now?
[47:17.790 --> 47:18.090]  Yes.
[47:18.650 --> 47:20.770]  And in fact, we were thinking of taking some phone calls.
[47:20.830 --> 47:22.010]  Do you think you might be up for that?
[47:23.390 --> 47:23.710]  Absolutely.
[47:23.710 --> 47:26.750]  It's about 10 minutes to 8 in the morning Thursday here right now.
[47:26.970 --> 47:28.730]  But yeah, let's take some calls.
[47:28.830 --> 47:29.850]  Okay, well, Mike has something to say first.
[47:29.970 --> 47:36.170]  I would just like to ask the people who think that this conversation is a good time to text message me right now to please stop it.
[47:36.430 --> 47:37.550]  Who's text messaging you?
[47:37.690 --> 47:38.110]  People.
[47:38.310 --> 47:39.250]  Oh, okay.
[47:39.970 --> 47:42.290]  Yeah, so let's keep this civil anyway.
[47:43.610 --> 47:45.830]  212-209-2900 is our phone number.
[47:46.010 --> 47:49.430]  Also, you know, there's something else that happened while I was away which I'm thrilled about.
[47:50.250 --> 47:53.150]  We were talking about how people aren't aware of what's going on in the world.
[47:53.690 --> 48:03.830]  Well, here at least in New York City people have more of an opportunity to know what's going on in the world because the local cable company now carries CNN International which Bernie, you're over there in Thailand.
[48:03.890 --> 48:05.130]  You probably get to see that.
[48:06.010 --> 48:10.090]  Actually, I was in Bangkok I was but not on this island of Koh Chang.
[48:10.450 --> 48:21.570]  But I am able to get Deutsche Welle in English on short waves and on a like the satellite reception at the bungalow I'm here Oh, great.
[48:22.030 --> 48:23.870]  So you can see German news in English.
[48:24.510 --> 48:24.990]  Yes.
[48:25.270 --> 48:33.610]  Alright, we're not quite at that stage yet but getting CNN international means that you get international news around the clock which is something that is a rarity in this country.
[48:33.910 --> 48:42.290]  So if you're in New York City and you get cable instead of watching CNN on Channel 10 watch CNN on Channel 133 and just notice the difference and get back to us.
[48:42.370 --> 48:42.390]  Much better.
[48:42.550 --> 48:46.550]  Yeah, let us know if you can see that maybe you'll learn a lot more.
[48:46.730 --> 48:47.750]  I just hope they keep this up.
[48:47.850 --> 48:57.210]  I know DirecTV dropped it and they don't have it anymore so maybe we can get this nationwide and people will learn more about what's going on in the world.
[48:57.310 --> 49:00.830]  Right now, you know, they have tsunami coverage and it's very interesting and you learn quite a bit.
[49:00.930 --> 49:04.630]  I turned to domestic CNN and it was President Bush making jokes at a press conference.
[49:05.850 --> 49:07.450]  It's just kind of sad.
[49:07.590 --> 49:12.430]  All right, let's take a phone call 202-209-2900 talking to Bernie S in Thailand and good evening.
[49:12.590 --> 49:13.130]  You're on the air.
[49:13.610 --> 49:17.270]  Hi, I'm on the Google News and I did a search.
[49:17.450 --> 49:21.350]  There's a Reuters article and I think there's about 143 others.
[49:21.650 --> 49:29.710]  Just to give you a few seconds summary, the heading is Israeli company offers free tsunami alert system.
[49:30.150 --> 49:41.950]  An Israeli company said on Monday it planned to distribute free to Asian countries hit by last week's tsunami a device it says could save lives by warning holiday makers directly that a tidal wave is coming.
[49:42.270 --> 49:55.690]  The system directed by Israeli inventor Amir I can't pronounce the name uses land and water sensors smaller than a shoebox and each costing $170 to measure seismic activity and wave motion.
[49:55.850 --> 49:56.150]  Thank you.
[49:56.390 --> 49:57.570]  Okay, thanks for that information.
[49:57.750 --> 50:07.730]  It sounds like something that actually looks for the threat of a tsunami specifically but we're talking about actually just using existing SMS technology to warn people around the world of something.
[50:08.610 --> 50:09.890]  Okay, it's taking another phone call.
[50:10.050 --> 50:10.450]  Good evening.
[50:10.650 --> 50:11.190]  You're on the air.
[50:11.830 --> 50:12.750]  One of those again.
[50:12.970 --> 50:18.170]  Wait, did we know ahead of time that there was a tsunami and they just didn't get warning?
[50:18.310 --> 50:19.690]  Because I mean...
[50:19.690 --> 50:36.410]  There were people certainly in the States who knew that a tsunami was very likely if not happening right then and there and the problem was they didn't have the phone numbers of the people to reach and you know the thing is the word tsunami is something that every language understands.
[50:36.610 --> 50:38.390]  It's one of those words that doesn't have to be translated.
[50:39.110 --> 50:44.070]  So all you have to do is just say that word to people who are on shorelines and they'll know what to do.
[50:44.230 --> 50:45.430]  They'll know get away.
[50:45.870 --> 50:49.390]  Don't run up to the receding water and look at all the fish flopping around.
[50:50.050 --> 50:51.410]  Get your asses away from there.
[50:51.850 --> 50:53.970]  It just would have been nice to get a message like that out.
[50:54.390 --> 50:55.430]  All right, let's take another phone call.
[50:55.650 --> 50:56.050]  Good evening.
[50:56.150 --> 50:56.550]  You're on the air.
[50:57.310 --> 51:00.090]  Hi, you were talking about CNN International.
[51:00.910 --> 51:04.830]  I used to live in Korea and they would have CNN International on there all the time.
[51:05.130 --> 51:07.430]  I don't know if it's the same broadcast that they have here.
[51:07.430 --> 51:11.530]  Yes, well, actually I was watching CNN from Hong Kong before, earlier in the day.
[51:11.630 --> 51:13.250]  So yeah, it probably is the same feed.
[51:13.450 --> 51:15.090]  It's the same feed that they get here in the United States?
[51:15.590 --> 51:18.130]  That we get in some places here in the United States now, yes.
[51:18.130 --> 51:24.990]  Well, all I can tell you from my personal opinion is that CNN International really isn't that much better than CNN regular.
[51:25.230 --> 51:26.550]  I mean, all the stories are edited.
[51:26.810 --> 51:27.490]  I mean, they're chopped.
[51:28.190 --> 51:28.870]  I don't know.
[51:28.990 --> 51:31.730]  I'll tell you the truth, I didn't find it much more informative than anything else.
[51:32.050 --> 51:34.970]  Well, I was flipping back and forth between domestic and international.
[51:34.970 --> 51:36.050]  I'll look at the rest off the radio.
[51:36.130 --> 51:36.410]  Okay.
[51:37.010 --> 51:42.510]  I was flipping back and forth and it just seems to me like the domestic broadcast are just personality based.
[51:42.770 --> 51:48.370]  You know, Wolf Blitzer and all these people whose names are the forefront.
[51:48.650 --> 51:50.510]  Those are the people that are bringing you the news.
[51:50.630 --> 51:51.330]  The news is secondary.
[51:51.810 --> 51:56.490]  Whereas if you watch the international feed, you don't know the names of the people who are bringing you the news, but it's interesting.
[51:56.930 --> 52:01.070]  It's not as good as BBC and that's something I think we should be getting in this country, but it's something.
[52:01.390 --> 52:04.590]  Yeah, it's not as good as it could be, but it's better than what we've had.
[52:06.370 --> 52:07.350]  Let's take another phone call.
[52:07.470 --> 52:07.850]  Good evening.
[52:08.010 --> 52:29.230]  The other thing I've seen in international and not surprisingly is they cover events around the world with the same amount of coverage as CNN US just spends a very little time covering international events compared to what's going on in the US or from a US perspective.
[52:29.690 --> 52:40.190]  CNN international really seems to have an international perspective and lends viewpoints from around the world, not just the viewpoint of the United States and what's going on around the world.
[52:40.390 --> 52:40.750]  Right.
[52:40.930 --> 52:51.150]  You'll see press conferences from different parts of the globe and you'll just know that things are happening whereas here you would never any clue that things are happening other than within the 50 states.
[52:51.390 --> 52:56.430]  Yeah, I'm sure no one outside of the US heard anything about the Scott Peterson trial during...
[52:56.430 --> 53:00.510]  Oh, it was so nice traveling and not hearing about Scott Peterson.
[53:00.730 --> 53:01.370]  Even George W.
[53:01.370 --> 53:14.150]  Bush, you'd hear if he did something monumentally stupid or, you know, said something, okay, fine, you hear those things but you don't hear every little detail of every trip he's making and what he's saying because it's really not all that important to the rest of the world,
[53:14.430 --> 53:18.450]  whereas other things are, you know, massacres in Sudan and things like that.
[53:18.610 --> 53:20.090]  That's what people should be aware of.
[53:20.570 --> 53:27.030]  Anyway, the thing is people in New York have the opportunity now at least to compare the two and let us know what you think and let them know what you think.
[53:27.530 --> 53:28.730]  And good evening, you're on the air.
[53:29.330 --> 53:30.050]  Yes, hi.
[53:31.070 --> 53:33.770]  Who's the fellow over there in Thailand?
[53:34.070 --> 53:34.610]  Is that Bernie?
[53:35.510 --> 53:35.950]  Yes.
[53:36.090 --> 53:36.950]  Yes, hi, Bernie.
[53:37.670 --> 53:38.110]  Hello.
[53:38.330 --> 53:39.670]  You're usually in Philadelphia, right?
[53:40.710 --> 53:41.390]  I'm sorry?
[53:41.550 --> 53:43.370]  Are you usually broadcasting from Philadelphia?
[53:44.530 --> 53:50.110]  Yes, I'm usually in Philadelphia, but now I'm on an island called Koh Chang, which is out the coast of Cambodia.
[53:50.410 --> 53:50.670]  Great.
[53:50.790 --> 53:51.230]  Stay safe.
[53:51.690 --> 54:08.250]  One question that I have is that I heard that, and I read it on the internet here and there, that on the Onolulu Center for warning, whatever, they had noticed that there was an earthquake measuring 8.0 and then an 8.5, and they had sent some warnings out to certain people over there,
[54:08.390 --> 54:10.330]  certain departments, maybe the Navy, et cetera.
[54:11.430 --> 54:20.650]  I think, I mean, if this was sent to the people of the country and they had sent it through these emails and fax and all that, we would have awarded a lot of debt.
[54:21.630 --> 54:26.030]  I think the system is there, it's just that it was not used properly.
[54:26.230 --> 54:26.530]  Thanks a lot.
[54:26.730 --> 54:27.270]  Now, hang up and listen.
[54:27.390 --> 54:27.770]  Thank you, guys.
[54:27.990 --> 54:28.150]  Okay.
[54:28.150 --> 54:30.990]  Well, we've pretty much made exactly the point that we've been making.
[54:31.150 --> 54:34.570]  And, yeah, it seems like we're learning a very sad lesson from all this.
[54:34.690 --> 54:34.990]  Yes, Jim.
[54:35.150 --> 54:36.150]  Well, I've been interested...
[54:36.150 --> 54:36.970]  Hang on, hang on here, Mike.
[54:37.170 --> 54:37.490]  There it is.
[54:37.710 --> 54:45.230]  I've been interested in how people determined that there was a tsunami and how it wasn't transmitted to the people who could have benefited.
[54:45.230 --> 54:50.210]  first of all, the tsunami warning system covers the Pacific only.
[54:50.450 --> 55:08.190]  The warning that was sent early on after the earthquake went to this working group, the equivalent of FEMA in a number of countries, the Navy, a few other things, geologists, and none of them were in the affected areas or citizens of the affected areas.
[55:08.370 --> 55:12.390]  There is no mechanism in place to warn those people.
[55:12.980 --> 55:13.830]  There have been...
[55:13.830 --> 55:17.170]  And to be fair, nothing like this has really ever happened.
[55:17.510 --> 55:23.510]  The Prime Minister here has said nothing like this has ever happened in Thailand in, like, recorded history.
[55:23.670 --> 55:24.670]  A hundred years at least.
[55:25.150 --> 55:28.990]  Typically, tsunamis just do not happen in the Indian Ocean.
[55:29.310 --> 55:35.550]  So, you know, there really was no infrastructure here because people's grandparents here couldn't even remember something like this happening.
[55:35.750 --> 55:39.610]  So, I guess they were just lulled into a sense of security.
[55:39.770 --> 55:57.690]  The other thing I wanted to mention is that the expert on tsunamis arising from 8.0 or larger earthquakes actually didn't know that a tsunami had occurred until he heard early news reports about two hours after the earthquake, ran to his office, and started doing a simulation with software,
[55:57.690 --> 56:01.570]  with data that he knew about the Indian Ocean floor.
[56:02.310 --> 56:05.910]  So, it wasn't like there was advance warning either.
[56:08.670 --> 56:10.390]  Bernie, what's going on over there?
[56:10.470 --> 56:11.530]  Sounds like a bit of commotion.
[56:11.670 --> 56:25.610]  It's noisy because I'm on a ferry now out in the Gulf of Thailand heading from the island of Koh Chang to this small airstrip in Trat, which is really just a hut with a grass roof, this airstrip.
[56:25.870 --> 56:28.050]  There's not even a pay phone there.
[56:31.150 --> 56:33.510]  And it's just a very unusual airport.
[56:33.690 --> 56:36.890]  They don't have IFR, instrument flight rating.
[56:36.990 --> 56:38.570]  It's all VFR, visual flight rating.
[56:38.730 --> 56:39.270]  So, you can't...
[56:39.270 --> 56:45.730]  It would dare to land in light, in the nighttime, or if it's foggy, you just can't land by instruments there.
[56:45.870 --> 56:49.010]  Bernie, how far out are you right now?
[56:51.010 --> 56:56.010]  We're just unhitched, undocked from the islands.
[56:56.130 --> 56:56.650]  Okay, that's...
[56:56.650 --> 56:59.090]  I'm now floating in the Gulf of Thailand.
[56:59.350 --> 57:05.950]  That's good timing because we have to go now, but you'll lose your signal pretty soon if you're going to go out on a boat ride like this.
[57:06.270 --> 57:07.870]  But will you be back next week?
[57:08.930 --> 57:15.950]  Yes, I'll be back in the U.S., back in Philadelphia, and have some more information about what's going on in Thailand that we can talk about.
[57:16.470 --> 57:18.430]  And this is amazing we're able to pull this off.
[57:18.470 --> 57:19.430]  Where are you right now, Emmanuel?
[57:19.970 --> 57:21.490]  I'm right here in New York City.
[57:21.690 --> 57:22.250]  I'm back.
[57:22.310 --> 57:22.970]  Oh, you got back already.
[57:22.970 --> 57:23.890]  I got back, yes.
[57:24.430 --> 57:25.890]  I thought you were still abroad yourself.
[57:26.110 --> 57:27.530]  No, no, I'm back here.
[57:27.850 --> 57:28.010]  Well, good.
[57:28.850 --> 57:30.870]  I'm pleased that we were able to pull this off.
[57:31.050 --> 57:34.730]  And it's a testament to what can be accomplished with technology bringing people together.
[57:34.990 --> 57:41.250]  And let's hope it can be used for even more important things like warning people of impending natural disasters.
[57:41.510 --> 57:53.110]  And again, if you can contribute anything to our listeners, please contribute everything you can to this tsunami relief fund because this is probably the worst natural catastrophe that we will ever witness.
[57:53.270 --> 57:54.010]  Let's hope so anyway.
[57:54.730 --> 57:59.990]  Bernie, best of luck to you, and we'll see you, or we'll hear from you in the studio next week.
[58:00.330 --> 58:03.370]  It's Emmanuel Goldstein for everybody else here at Off the Hook.
[58:03.530 --> 58:04.530]  Have yourselves a good night.
[58:04.830 --> 58:05.850]  We'll see you next week.
[58:05.850 --> 58:15.600]  We'll see you next in the studio.
[58:15.900 --> 58:16.440]  Bye.
[58:16.660 --> 58:16.680]  Bye.
[58:20.740 --> 58:21.340]  Bye.
[59:05.740 --> 59:06.320]  Bye.
[59:06.320 --> 59:06.460]  Bye.
[59:08.580 --> 59:08.980]  Bye.
[59:10.680 --> 59:11.380]  Bye.
[59:13.160 --> 59:15.360]  Let yourself copy, set to me.