[00:00.160 --> 00:03.460]  As Fred would have said, stay tuned.
[00:04.160 --> 00:10.580]  On Tuesday, June 14th, there will be a very special concert tribute to WBAI's own Fred Giobald.
[00:10.760 --> 00:12.560]  It will be held from 7 p.m.
[00:13.120 --> 00:13.720]  until...
[00:13.720 --> 00:17.760]  at the C-Note, 157 Avenue C at 10th Street.
[00:18.120 --> 00:19.140]  Stay tuned.
[00:19.540 --> 00:23.360]  The proceeds from the concert will benefit Fred's beloved WBAI radio.
[00:23.660 --> 00:32.380]  Featured artists include Ansel Matthews, Terry Radigan, Ned Massey, Tama Waipara, the WWF's Johnny Valiant, and many of Fred's WBAI colleagues.
[00:32.780 --> 00:33.440]  Stay tuned.
[00:33.920 --> 00:37.140]  That's Tuesday, June 14th, starting at 7 p.m.
[00:37.220 --> 00:41.160]  at the C-Note, 157 Avenue C at 10th Street.
[00:41.180 --> 00:45.360]  For more information, call 212-209-2800.
[00:45.360 --> 00:48.520]  That's 212-209-2800.
[00:48.620 --> 00:50.880]  As Fred would have said, stay tuned.
[00:52.080 --> 01:00.920]  Keep the storms at bay These walls are nothing fancy Cause I'm learning as I build
[01:10.810 --> 01:23.750]  There's something snapping, snapping, snapping, snapping The Brooklyn Children's Museum will be hosting a world music festival which will bring families together from the diverse neighborhoods of New York City.
[01:23.930 --> 01:27.630]  It will be held Saturday, June 11th, from 1 to 5 p.m.
[01:27.750 --> 01:33.990]  This museum-wide event will be offering a variety of fun musical activities for the entire family.
[01:33.990 --> 01:40.950]  You will play instruments from around the world, learn to create your own instruments, and use them to participate in a jam session.
[01:41.130 --> 01:44.190]  There is a museum admission fee for all adults.
[01:44.190 --> 01:47.210]  Free admission for children under 1 year old.
[01:47.410 --> 01:51.270]  Brooklyn Children's Museum is located at 145 Brooklyn Avenue.
[01:51.270 --> 02:11.810]  For further information, call 718-735-4400 Or go to www.brooklynkids.org Maybe it's something good enough to eat It's music M-U-S-I-C And it's 7 o'clock on the nose.
[02:12.090 --> 02:13.390]  You're listening to the radio...
[02:13.390 --> 02:14.290]  The New York chapter...
[02:14.290 --> 02:15.130]  All right, all right, enough.
[02:15.250 --> 02:17.090]  Enough of that with the public service announcements there.
[02:18.530 --> 02:26.810]  It's WBAI New York Time once again for me to get completely flustered as there are so many things to possibly have up at the same time.
[02:27.330 --> 02:29.370]  Okay, time for off the hook.
[02:31.010 --> 02:32.450]  Right, it's over here.
[02:32.950 --> 02:34.170]  Sorry, we just have new equipment.
[02:41.020 --> 03:02.760]  The telephone keeps ringing So I ripped it off the wall I cut myself while shaving Now I can't make a call We couldn't get much worse But if they could, they would Bon-diddly-bom But the best, expect the worst I hope that's understood Bon-diddly-bom
[03:37.400 --> 03:38.520]  And a very good evening to everybody.
[03:38.660 --> 03:39.940]  The program is Off the Hook.
[03:40.020 --> 03:42.080]  Emmanuel Goldstein here with you for the next hour.
[03:42.900 --> 03:44.540]  Assuming I can figure out where all the buttons are.
[03:45.500 --> 03:47.600]  We have Jim with us tonight.
[03:47.840 --> 03:48.020]  Hello.
[03:54.020 --> 03:54.260]  Good evening.
[03:54.640 --> 03:59.740]  And it looks like RedHack running through the door on the closed-circuit camera there.
[04:00.760 --> 04:02.000]  It's good that that thing is there.
[04:02.160 --> 04:04.920]  You get to see who's coming before they actually show up.
[04:05.000 --> 04:06.080]  And we can lock the door in front.
[04:06.080 --> 04:06.880]  Hey, we knew you were coming.
[04:07.420 --> 04:07.640]  Yeah.
[04:08.020 --> 04:08.320]  Okay.
[04:09.580 --> 04:10.640]  Trouble on the MTA?
[04:11.220 --> 04:12.380]  Subway took its sweet time.
[04:12.460 --> 04:13.640]  Yeah, it'll do that.
[04:13.760 --> 04:14.440]  It'll certainly do that.
[04:15.220 --> 04:19.360]  Well, we're here tonight for another fun-filled edition of Off the Hook.
[04:20.140 --> 04:23.880]  And first of all, let's start with some good news because it's always good to start with good news.
[04:23.880 --> 04:24.380]  Good news.
[04:24.600 --> 04:24.740]  Yeah.
[04:24.940 --> 04:25.820]  We never have good news.
[04:25.900 --> 04:27.260]  And we always get through it very quickly, too.
[04:27.640 --> 04:32.280]  But remember, last week we were talking to Rob from Amsterdam about what the heck.
[04:32.620 --> 04:38.440]  And the word now is that the quote-unquote misunderstanding with the town has been solved.
[04:38.540 --> 04:39.920]  The permit will be issued.
[04:40.160 --> 04:46.900]  So, what the heck will be taking place in the Netherlands from July 28th through August 31st.
[04:47.520 --> 04:48.020]  I'm sorry.
[04:48.300 --> 04:49.280]  No, not quite that good.
[04:49.400 --> 04:52.260]  July 28th until July 31st.
[04:52.580 --> 04:52.820]  Yeah.
[04:52.820 --> 04:53.480]  One day.
[04:53.600 --> 04:55.520]  One day we'll have a month-long hacker conference.
[04:56.500 --> 04:57.120]  So, yeah.
[04:57.940 --> 04:59.880]  The problems are pretty much fixed.
[05:00.360 --> 05:03.460]  And if you want more information, go to whatthehack.org.
[05:03.580 --> 05:05.220]  Do you need a www in front of that?
[05:05.300 --> 05:05.660]  It can't hurt.
[05:06.780 --> 05:08.400]  If you have some extra Ws, throw them in front of you.
[05:08.400 --> 05:09.500]  You can never have too many Ws.
[05:09.640 --> 05:10.340]  Well, you can.
[05:10.440 --> 05:10.940]  You really can.
[05:11.260 --> 05:15.640]  You think after all this time, people would have figured out a way not to have three Ws in front of everything.
[05:15.780 --> 05:16.540]  Well, you don't need them.
[05:16.760 --> 05:17.340]  You don't need them.
[05:17.340 --> 05:21.540]  It's just that most people don't set up their DNS so that the main domain points to...
[05:21.540 --> 05:25.200]  But after all this time, don't you think someone would have said, why don't we just make it one W?
[05:25.380 --> 05:26.100]  Why make it three?
[05:26.440 --> 05:26.920]  You know?
[05:27.160 --> 05:28.640]  Who does that hurt to make it one W?
[05:29.720 --> 05:30.040]  Everybody.
[05:30.040 --> 05:32.780]  It hurts manufacturers of W keys.
[05:33.760 --> 05:35.100]  It just seems like a waste.
[05:35.200 --> 05:35.620]  It really does.
[05:35.760 --> 05:36.320]  But yeah, you're right.
[05:36.420 --> 05:38.200]  It's very easily fixed with DNS.
[05:39.620 --> 05:42.000]  Okay, so what's topping our news today?
[05:42.140 --> 05:50.920]  Bernie, I think you were pretty excited by this story about Citigroup reporting losing many customers' information yet again.
[05:51.200 --> 05:52.480]  You want to tell us something about this?
[05:52.940 --> 05:53.780]  Well, yeah.
[05:53.780 --> 06:04.540]  Yeah, let's ship millions of customers a highly sensitive personal ID via UPS, who never loses anything.
[06:05.000 --> 06:08.780]  Well, if you're seriously suggesting doing that, Bernie, I don't think that's a very good idea at all.
[06:08.920 --> 06:10.380]  Why would you suggest such a foolish thing?
[06:10.580 --> 06:12.140]  Well, I'm being facetious, obviously.
[06:12.320 --> 06:12.720]  Oh, okay.
[06:12.800 --> 06:13.420]  Well, that's allowed then.
[06:13.420 --> 06:25.040]  And anything of that highly sensitive nature and potential value should be shipped by some sort of private courier or something along those lines.
[06:25.220 --> 06:27.940]  But how many millions of customers' data was this again?
[06:28.320 --> 06:31.100]  3.9 million customers.
[06:31.580 --> 06:31.800]  Oh!
[06:32.200 --> 06:35.920]  Yeah, tapes containing information on 3.9 million customers.
[06:36.200 --> 06:37.460]  This was last month.
[06:37.600 --> 06:39.800]  It was lost last month by UPS.
[06:41.120 --> 06:52.160]  Now, these tapes had information of all sorts, including Social Security numbers, and all kinds of credit information, personal auto, home, equity, loan info.
[06:52.560 --> 06:53.720]  You name it, it was all there.
[06:54.580 --> 06:56.440]  That's the kind of stuff that should be shipped.
[06:56.640 --> 07:05.200]  I mean, if it needs to be shipped physically, like, you know, tapes like that, it should be carried by an armored truck like Brinks or something or Wells Fargo.
[07:05.200 --> 07:12.060]  This is not something you just, you know, casually send UPS ground and hope that it gets there.
[07:12.980 --> 07:15.200]  It's really, this is just egregious...
[07:16.980 --> 07:17.420]  Stupidity.
[07:17.640 --> 07:19.400]  It's aggressive stupidity is what it is.
[07:19.620 --> 07:19.880]  Absolutely.
[07:20.160 --> 07:24.080]  And I think Citigroup should be held liable for this because it's just gross negligence.
[07:24.340 --> 07:32.380]  Now, Bernie, remind me, is the law that they have to report it to the people, to the customers, a state-by-state law, or is that a federal law?
[07:32.380 --> 07:53.160]  State-by-state, there's pending legislation, and I believe this should be a federal law, that any company or entity that loses or misplaces or has reason to believe customers or individuals' ID data has been compromised or lost or whatever, that have to notify all those people.
[07:53.320 --> 07:59.080]  Now, the reason you're starting to hear more about this is because there's a law in California now that requires companies to do this.
[07:59.080 --> 08:05.180]  And a lot of these news stories have been coming from companies who lost their data from California.
[08:05.380 --> 08:06.760]  And I don't know if this is one of those cases.
[08:07.080 --> 08:20.180]  California and a handful of other states have laws like this that are pro-consumer and let you at least require the companies or entities to let you know if your information might be at extreme risk.
[08:20.620 --> 08:22.360]  So that's why we're hearing more and more of this.
[08:22.360 --> 08:32.440]  But I would favor federal legislation that requires companies to not only let people know about this, but be responsible for paying any damages that people suffer as a result of this stuff being lost.
[08:32.720 --> 08:38.820]  Well, what kind of damages do you think someone could suffer as a result of having all their personal information lost by UPS?
[08:39.100 --> 08:45.120]  Well, if someone assumes that identity and just uses it to go get credit cards or...
[08:45.120 --> 08:47.980]  It's not so much the financial loss because you're really not...
[08:47.980 --> 08:51.420]  Ultimately, you're not responsible for...
[08:52.280 --> 09:03.280]  Legally and ultimately, you're not really responsible for credit and other things that have been run up costs in your name if it's not you.
[09:03.280 --> 09:04.780]  But you have to prove it wasn't you.
[09:04.940 --> 09:06.600]  And that can be such a nightmare.
[09:06.600 --> 09:13.500]  It can literally take people years and years of agonizing battles with companies to prove this.
[09:13.500 --> 09:14.380]  And you've got to get lawyers.
[09:14.380 --> 09:16.180]  And it's just a nightmare.
[09:16.180 --> 09:26.120]  And that has a cost that, you know, frankly, should be valued from a numerical standpoint because that's all these big companies understand is if they have to pay damages.
[09:26.140 --> 09:32.080]  I think the federal law should state if someone's identity is stolen so many times...
[09:32.080 --> 09:44.880]  so many, you know, within a certain time window of that data being lost or compromised as a result of negligence, then whoever was negligent should have to pay this person X, some fixed amount.
[09:46.180 --> 09:53.240]  because if you have to prove how much it costs you, most people can't afford to prove that because it's just too costly and too agonizing.
[09:53.460 --> 09:53.760]  They don't want...
[09:53.760 --> 09:54.720]  These people have lives to live.
[09:54.820 --> 09:55.720]  They don't have to deal with this.
[09:55.800 --> 09:56.820]  They shouldn't have to deal with this stuff.
[09:57.080 --> 09:59.360]  I think it should be a flat, like, $10,000.
[09:59.620 --> 10:02.940]  You win automatically if your identity has been...
[10:02.940 --> 10:04.560]  you know, identity stuff has been stolen.
[10:05.320 --> 10:08.220]  And you can, you know, you can show that this wasn't you doing this.
[10:08.500 --> 10:19.440]  And, you know, the incredible thing, Bernie, about all this is that every time you see a story about this in CNN or on any of the major networks, they're always pointing to the threat that hackers pose as far as stealing identities.
[10:19.600 --> 10:25.140]  Whereas this is the real threat, idiots who ship things unsecured and in places where it's easily lost.
[10:25.260 --> 10:29.320]  How many times, how many stories have we heard in the past couple of weeks where this has happened?
[10:29.540 --> 10:32.120]  And, you know, I think it's been happening for a long time.
[10:32.120 --> 10:33.740]  I think we might just be hearing about it now.
[10:33.880 --> 10:36.480]  But it's obvious that these people don't know what they're doing.
[10:36.820 --> 10:46.260]  It's also interesting that it's further demonstrating a negligence of Citigroup here is they did not encrypt the tapes, apparently, the data on the tapes.
[10:46.380 --> 10:53.000]  I mean, I do tape backups where I work and I encrypt them because sometimes they're stored off-site and there's sensitive data on them.
[10:54.000 --> 10:55.600]  So it's not hard to do.
[10:55.820 --> 11:00.640]  Virtually any tape backup application out there allows you to encrypt the data on the fly onto the tape.
[11:00.780 --> 11:02.600]  And apparently they didn't even do that.
[11:02.900 --> 11:04.540]  So it's just like double negligence.
[11:04.700 --> 11:06.780]  If I might just jump in about the news media.
[11:07.700 --> 11:13.520]  Oddly enough, I was watching CNN today and they had a piece about identity theft and how, you know, people can break in.
[11:13.920 --> 11:19.980]  They did mention that it was mostly human weakness and they talked about social engineering in sort of a layman's way.
[11:20.120 --> 11:21.200]  But I was waiting.
[11:21.340 --> 11:28.880]  I was sitting there waiting for them to mention this Citigroup fiasco because it's so recent and it tied in so well and there wasn't a word about it.
[11:28.880 --> 11:31.960]  Yeah, man, that should be the number one reason why identities are stolen.
[11:32.180 --> 11:37.900]  This is talking about breaking in via computer and not even, you know, not even a word.
[11:38.160 --> 11:38.380]  Yeah.
[11:39.040 --> 11:41.900]  Okay, well that's the corporate blunder of the week.
[11:42.020 --> 11:45.800]  I'm sure there'll be more as the shows progress.
[11:46.240 --> 11:47.540]  Are we done with the good news?
[11:48.420 --> 11:49.520]  Well, that really wasn't the good news.
[11:49.600 --> 11:50.480]  The good news was what the heck.
[11:50.500 --> 11:52.840]  But yeah, do you have more good news or bad news?
[11:52.860 --> 11:54.120]  No, I don't have any news at all.
[11:54.200 --> 11:55.440]  Okay, I thought you had some news.
[11:55.680 --> 11:56.880]  You came over here before and you got some news.
[11:56.880 --> 11:57.660]  Oh, I have news.
[11:57.880 --> 11:59.620]  All right, let's tell us the bad news.
[11:59.660 --> 12:06.860]  The bad news is that Covance, which is, as we've said, this biomedical testing company that likes to, you know, abuse animals.
[12:07.120 --> 12:14.040]  Every week you come here talking about Covance, how they're a European company and how they don't have the guts to do anything in this country, even though they have offices in this country.
[12:14.340 --> 12:15.300]  What's different this week?
[12:15.340 --> 12:16.240]  Headquarters in this country.
[12:16.340 --> 12:17.640]  Headquartered in Princeton, New Jersey, yes.
[12:17.920 --> 12:18.420]  Princeton, New Jersey.
[12:18.880 --> 12:25.220]  And finally, I guess, I don't know if I should be pleased, but they have now sued someone in the United States court.
[12:25.320 --> 12:28.960]  You know, they must listen to us because last week, it's almost like you challenged them to do that.
[12:29.080 --> 12:30.660]  I've been challenging them for years.
[12:30.680 --> 12:31.840]  Yeah, and now they've done it.
[12:31.980 --> 12:32.580]  Now they've done it.
[12:32.640 --> 12:52.240]  They've sued PETA, the People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals, and their, I guess, co-conspirator, I don't know, who got a job at Covance and then surreptitiously filmed inside to bring the evidence of these abuses to light.
[12:53.420 --> 13:05.360]  and Covance is displeased and they have demanded that all of the film be turned over, which is very hard to do when you can just, you know, I don't know if the original is digital, but it's very easy to copy film.
[13:05.740 --> 13:07.980]  So I don't really know what they want, but...
[13:07.980 --> 13:09.320]  I'd say let them have the originals.
[13:10.260 --> 13:13.480]  No one will ever be able to watch it again if Covance gets the originals.
[13:13.600 --> 13:14.180]  Of course not.
[13:14.320 --> 13:16.960]  You know, there's only how many thousands of digital copies out there now?
[13:17.100 --> 13:17.640]  I don't know.
[13:18.280 --> 13:20.520]  Well, we'll have to somehow retrieve all of those as well.
[13:20.520 --> 13:25.460]  It's always fun to have to obey the corporate lawsuits as they come down.
[13:26.640 --> 13:33.900]  Other news, the FBI, Department of Homeland Security are objecting to a proposal to permit the use of cellular phones and other wireless devices on airplanes.
[13:34.320 --> 13:35.560]  Can't say I disagree with that.
[13:36.260 --> 13:37.220]  Unless telecommun...
[13:37.220 --> 13:38.000]  But here's the reason.
[13:38.200 --> 13:47.320]  Unless telecommunication providers follow a lengthy list of eavesdropping requirements for calls made aloft, the FBI and Homeland Security don't want cellular or wireless connections to be permitted.
[13:47.320 --> 13:54.860]  They don't care that you're annoying the people next to you by talking and just being disruptive in whatever way.
[13:54.860 --> 13:56.660]  They care that they can't hear it themselves.
[13:57.480 --> 14:01.840]  Who are you going to communicate with up there that it's essential that you communicate while you're there?
[14:01.960 --> 14:05.000]  Is it something you can't do with two-way radios on board or something?
[14:05.340 --> 14:14.400]  They're afraid that someone is going to get on the phone and say something along the lines of, praise Allah, we are over the place where we will take over the plane.
[14:14.840 --> 14:16.300]  That's what they want to...
[14:16.300 --> 14:18.220]  Why would you use a cellular phone to do that?
[14:18.360 --> 14:25.000]  It seems like any communication that needs to occur up there, like if terrorists were planning anything could occur very easily with small two-way radios.
[14:25.140 --> 14:29.580]  Well, yeah, I don't think very many people would use two-way radios on an airplane without that being detected.
[14:29.800 --> 14:35.440]  If they're terrorists, why don't they just use the air phone because I'm sure they have false identities to use them anyway.
[14:36.080 --> 14:44.320]  I might not know very much about the subject but I think when terrorists take over airplanes it's pretty much shouting across the aisle because the terrorist is in the next aisle and you just sort of communicate that way.
[14:44.320 --> 14:45.500]  You don't need phones.
[14:45.780 --> 14:50.860]  You're not getting commands from Central or wherever the headquarters happen to be.
[14:51.100 --> 14:52.020]  Pre-planning.
[14:52.380 --> 14:53.500]  I've got to say something here.
[14:53.540 --> 15:23.520]  The FBI is apparently thinking along those lines because some of the other requirements that the FBI and Homeland Security are requesting it's the FCC require that identifying the seat number of the passenger making the call be made instantly available to the FBI and to make sure that the police police can expeditiously interrupt any conversation and cut off service to the whole plane if they need
[15:23.520 --> 15:28.800]  to so that all passengers except government agents can continue their phone calls.
[15:29.640 --> 15:30.440]  Expeditiously interrupt?
[15:31.160 --> 15:32.460]  This goes well beyond wiretapping.
[15:32.560 --> 15:34.960]  How does this differ from the air phones that are already on the plane?
[15:36.600 --> 15:38.880]  This will allow you to use your regular cell phone.
[15:38.880 --> 15:43.020]  No, but I mean what's different as far as what sort of communication you'd be able to make?
[15:44.120 --> 15:46.080]  What are they concerned of that you wouldn't be able to do?
[15:46.260 --> 15:49.300]  Well, the air phones can identify where you are because they're wired into the seat.
[15:49.460 --> 15:50.580]  That's fairly simple.
[15:50.920 --> 15:51.680]  Well, not all of them.
[15:51.760 --> 16:01.660]  The ones I've used the one I used for instance when I called into off the hook a couple years ago on the way back from the CCC camp was not one that was fixed to my seat.
[16:01.800 --> 16:07.600]  It was one of those they only have a few of them in the plane and you have to walk up to somewhere up near the kitchen and use the phone.
[16:07.900 --> 16:08.140]  Oh, okay.
[16:08.240 --> 16:09.940]  And you carry it with you or do you stay near where it is?
[16:09.940 --> 16:12.960]  It's a cordless phone but you don't have to sit in your seat.
[16:13.120 --> 16:13.900]  You could walk anywhere.
[16:14.140 --> 16:15.060]  I mean, it's a cordless phone.
[16:15.200 --> 16:17.360]  It'll work apparently anywhere in the plane.
[16:17.500 --> 16:21.780]  Well, it probably has a tracking device and detonator inside it in case you get out of hand.
[16:21.780 --> 16:31.120]  With the earphones that Bernie is talking about you put a credit card into the whatever, the apparatus and then you take the phone.
[16:31.340 --> 16:38.780]  So, obviously there's some sort of, or not necessarily obviously but theoretically there could be some sort of tracing apparatus for your credit card.
[16:39.160 --> 16:40.760]  Yes, but you could use anybody's credit card.
[16:40.880 --> 16:41.380]  That's the flaw.
[16:41.380 --> 16:42.860]  I took your credit card and I could swipe it.
[16:43.040 --> 16:47.180]  There's no proof that it's the person who owns the card who's swiping it.
[16:47.260 --> 16:52.440]  If you're a terrorist you could, you know, grab someone by the throat or whatever and demand their credit card.
[16:52.640 --> 16:52.780]  Sure.
[16:53.420 --> 17:02.940]  The irony here though is that while most people are concerned about just being disruptive on an airplane because everybody's making cell calls, the FBI is only concerned about being able to listen in.
[17:03.020 --> 17:05.380]  That's their main worry, not being able to do that.
[17:05.620 --> 17:09.840]  They can't stand not being able to hear what everybody's saying.
[17:09.960 --> 17:10.560]  It's their thing.
[17:10.720 --> 17:11.360]  They live for that.
[17:11.520 --> 17:12.020]  It's their thing.
[17:12.140 --> 17:12.800]  They gear up for it.
[17:12.860 --> 17:13.840]  Well, they can't hear us now.
[17:13.960 --> 17:14.640]  At least we know that.
[17:15.780 --> 17:17.200]  Because they don't know how to find us.
[17:19.020 --> 17:19.420]  Gosh.
[17:19.420 --> 17:21.740]  You can find us in more and more places all the time though.
[17:22.180 --> 17:24.180]  Is that some sort of promo for something that we do?
[17:24.360 --> 17:30.460]  Yeah, we're now on a station in Flint, Michigan, WKUF, out of Kettering University.
[17:30.920 --> 17:32.160]  Flint will rise again.
[17:32.320 --> 17:35.560]  Flint will rise again and we will be there to help them do it.
[17:36.760 --> 17:39.460]  So we're on Saturdays at one on that station.
[17:39.700 --> 17:40.240]  Saturdays at one.
[17:40.300 --> 17:41.380]  In the morning or in the afternoon?
[17:42.440 --> 17:43.320]  1 p.m.
[17:43.380 --> 17:43.740]  1 p.m.
[17:43.780 --> 17:44.380]  Okay, that's a good time.
[17:44.580 --> 17:48.400]  So if you hear this live in Flint, Michigan, have a good Saturday.
[17:49.520 --> 17:49.700]  Yeah.
[17:50.080 --> 17:52.640]  If you're listening to this on the internet on Saturday, also have a good Saturday.
[17:53.320 --> 17:54.020]  You know what?
[17:54.180 --> 17:55.400]  Everybody just have a good Saturday.
[17:56.360 --> 17:56.920]  What else?
[17:56.940 --> 17:57.960]  The next time it's Saturday.
[17:58.220 --> 18:02.180]  I have some more stuff on phones and where they find them.
[18:02.280 --> 18:02.860]  But let me ask.
[18:02.980 --> 18:04.340]  Bernie, you're a good person to ask.
[18:04.500 --> 18:08.000]  What tends to drive technological cutting-edge technology?
[18:09.560 --> 18:10.640]  What kind of a question is that?
[18:10.640 --> 18:14.000]  What drives technological advance, Bernie?
[18:15.120 --> 18:21.180]  Well, some would argue that NASA or the military, all the money that sunk into that...
[18:21.180 --> 18:22.120]  Well, that's good.
[18:22.280 --> 18:22.760]  That's good.
[18:22.840 --> 18:23.820]  But after that...
[18:23.820 --> 18:25.540]  You could say like war.
[18:27.740 --> 18:35.020]  I guess as far as money goes, a big drive for internet is pornography, so sex.
[18:35.320 --> 18:35.500]  Right.
[18:35.940 --> 18:37.800]  And there's a lot of online gambling sites.
[18:38.040 --> 18:39.660]  Ah, number three.
[18:39.660 --> 18:41.060]  Okay, let's have it.
[18:41.300 --> 18:41.700]  Okay.
[18:42.400 --> 18:45.340]  You know how they want to determine where your cell phone is?
[18:46.060 --> 18:48.580]  Well, you ever heard of the Wire Act of 1934?
[18:48.820 --> 18:49.380]  Probably not.
[18:49.580 --> 18:53.080]  This is essentially what says that you can't make interstate bets.
[18:53.560 --> 19:05.900]  So now in Nevada, with the gaming industry there, they've got a technology that they're developing that will be able to let the sportsbook in the casino know where your cell phone is when you call in to place a bet.
[19:06.060 --> 19:09.960]  So they will allow bets if you're within the confines of Nevada.
[19:11.120 --> 19:11.520]  Really?
[19:11.740 --> 19:12.100]  Really.
[19:13.780 --> 19:25.560]  If you can have a phone, you know, registered to your home address in New York, but as soon as you get into McCarran Airport, you can call up the casino and say, you know, give me the Yankees to win, which is a dumb bet.
[19:25.600 --> 19:28.340]  Yeah, but how hard is it to have some kind of call forwarding operation?
[19:28.380 --> 19:29.260]  That's what I want to know.
[19:29.400 --> 19:33.660]  Bernie, you ever hear of the cheese box or a beige box to forward through a cell phone?
[19:33.660 --> 19:34.660]  Cheese box, yes.
[19:36.180 --> 19:38.160]  Mr. Callahan, who is also known as Cheese.
[19:38.240 --> 19:39.160]  That's a great book, by the way.
[19:39.240 --> 19:42.540]  Get a book called, look at, an old book written in the 60s called Cheese Box.
[19:42.660 --> 19:44.400]  It talks all about how call forwarding works.
[19:44.500 --> 19:53.960]  But you know, why couldn't just somebody use one like Von Edge or Packet 8 or one of these over IP service and get an area, you know, get a phone that has a...
[19:54.360 --> 19:54.780]  What's that?
[19:54.840 --> 20:00.380]  The Gaming Commission in Nevada thought of that, and if you use that, they want to know where your billing address is.
[20:00.480 --> 20:04.540]  So if you have a billing address in New York, but in Nevada phone, you can't make calls from that.
[20:04.540 --> 20:06.320]  Do you know how easy it is to defeat these things?
[20:06.640 --> 20:07.120]  Is it?
[20:07.160 --> 20:07.800]  It's kid stuff.
[20:07.880 --> 20:08.400]  PO box.
[20:08.800 --> 20:11.180]  I'm not a gambler, but I'll become one just to prove this point.
[20:12.520 --> 20:14.560]  Come on, this is really for real?
[20:14.780 --> 20:16.260]  This is for real.
[20:16.400 --> 20:17.400]  What paper did you drag that out on?
[20:17.680 --> 20:18.360]  Gaming Today.
[20:18.360 --> 20:19.240]  Gaming Today?
[20:20.340 --> 20:22.900]  I have a wide variety of interests.
[20:23.300 --> 20:24.080]  Wait, what's the slogan?
[20:24.520 --> 20:25.620]  News You Can Bet On.
[20:25.860 --> 20:26.360]  News You Can Bet On.
[20:26.420 --> 20:27.240]  I don't believe this.
[20:27.980 --> 20:29.560]  Jim, what do you do with your time?
[20:30.260 --> 20:30.880]  Gaming Today.
[20:30.900 --> 20:33.120]  I read just about anything I can get my hands on.
[20:33.200 --> 20:33.740]  What can I say?
[20:34.220 --> 20:38.440]  Dan, you probably read about the new domains that they're going to be introducing, the .xxx.
[20:38.800 --> 20:41.700]  Notice there's many new domains, but only one made the news.
[20:41.820 --> 20:43.880]  Another example of sex-driving commerce.
[20:44.000 --> 20:45.820]  Well, okay, what are the domains have they announced?
[20:46.200 --> 20:46.500]  I don't know.
[20:46.500 --> 20:47.120]  Is that info?
[20:48.360 --> 20:48.700]  It's already there.
[20:48.800 --> 20:51.060]  No, this is a new domain they haven't yet created.
[20:51.200 --> 20:52.120]  All of them were pretty stupid.
[20:52.140 --> 20:52.780]  Dot museum?
[20:53.360 --> 20:56.380]  It's going to be called a virtual red light district.
[20:57.120 --> 21:02.380]  And I guess that means that somehow it's going to protect children because anything with triple X in it will be off limits.
[21:02.560 --> 21:04.240]  So, of course, nobody's ever going to try to get there.
[21:05.520 --> 21:05.920]  Yeah.
[21:06.860 --> 21:07.460]  I don't know.
[21:07.700 --> 21:08.960]  How do you qualify for this?
[21:10.240 --> 21:13.600]  What if you open a site that isn't porn in the .xxx domain?
[21:13.600 --> 21:13.780]  That's what I'm wondering.
[21:14.340 --> 21:17.600]  Like Vin Diesel or Ice Cube, Triple X.
[21:17.620 --> 21:23.580]  Well, the idea behind it is that only adult websites would use the domain and thus it would be easy to filter out.
[21:23.940 --> 21:25.980]  Of course, unless they reverse...
[21:25.980 --> 21:29.980]  Like, if you connect it to an IP and the reverse DNS wasn't .xxx, then how would you know?
[21:31.120 --> 21:31.720]  I don't know.
[21:31.780 --> 21:35.800]  It seems like this is kind of a silly waste of time and I don't know how they're going to enforce it.
[21:35.880 --> 21:39.840]  Are they going to dictate that everybody who does something adult-oriented is going to have to have a triple X?
[21:40.020 --> 21:40.980]  Are you going to be relegated to it?
[21:41.240 --> 21:43.740]  Is it going to be like TV ratings and things like that?
[21:43.920 --> 21:49.320]  Well, voluntarily, all the adult websites are supposed to move to it, but I highly doubt that.
[21:49.400 --> 21:52.000]  Do you know how many things are voluntary that really aren't voluntary?
[21:52.180 --> 22:03.680]  I think it's just a scam for the registrars to make money off the TLDs because people register their domain and then they register .com, .net, .whatever, but there's much more than just XXX that has been recently.
[22:03.980 --> 22:06.180]  I don't think these domains are cheap either.
[22:06.320 --> 22:12.360]  They're definitely a lot more than .com, which is why I was thinking if they want these websites to voluntarily move there, that's...
[22:12.360 --> 22:15.380]  I mean, I would make it cheaper as an incentive.
[22:15.700 --> 22:17.400]  There's a hidden motive behind this.
[22:17.520 --> 22:18.140]  What's the hidden motive?
[22:19.040 --> 22:19.600]  Censorship.
[22:20.160 --> 22:33.560]  Because once the government starts saying that people with websites that have certain content must put them in a certain top-level domain or whatever, then that's the slippery slope to censorship.
[22:33.940 --> 22:46.100]  And the ironic thing is the big pornography producers, like even though they're kind of softcore, I guess, playboy.com, they have publicly stated they have no interest in putting their website in an XXX domain.
[22:46.480 --> 22:47.860]  They have nothing to gain.
[22:49.220 --> 22:55.440]  So there's going to be some legislation coming down the pike eventually that's going to say, well, if there's this much content, you know what they tried to say?
[22:55.640 --> 23:00.080]  Like anything that's indecent, which without defining what indecent was, this has to be whatever.
[23:00.420 --> 23:06.580]  So they're going to start saying that anything that falls under this other vague category has to go into this top-level domain.
[23:06.680 --> 23:21.440]  And once you do that, the companies will put out this like Web Nanny and all this other bogus, not working very well, web screening software will just block that entire top-level domain so you can't access that information.
[23:21.440 --> 23:29.640]  I think it really is a scary precedent when the government starts saying if your content is such-and-such, it has to go here.
[23:29.780 --> 23:35.160]  Of course, the beauty of the Internet is that it's not just the U.S., and so they wouldn't really be able to do much to...
[23:35.160 --> 23:36.300]  And this is ICANN that did this.
[23:36.500 --> 23:42.020]  The government hasn't actually mandated that XXX sites have to be in the XXX domain or anything like that.
[23:42.520 --> 23:43.480]  But stay tuned.
[23:43.640 --> 23:44.420]  Stay tuned, exactly.
[23:45.100 --> 23:47.300]  Okay, let's read a couple of pieces of listener mail.
[23:47.300 --> 23:50.380]  Of course, you can write to us othat2600.com.
[23:50.800 --> 23:51.620]  Do you're off the hook?
[23:51.800 --> 23:55.900]  What was the beautiful piano music playing at the beginning of your show this past Wednesday night?
[23:56.100 --> 23:58.800]  Maybe the music we were playing this Wednesday night as well.
[23:59.960 --> 24:00.740]  Yeah, sign, Karen.
[24:01.020 --> 24:02.460]  Karen, thanks very much for noticing.
[24:02.600 --> 24:09.220]  It's actually a piece by Brian Eno called Music for Airports, and it's still available, I think.
[24:09.400 --> 24:10.920]  I found it, and it was cool.
[24:11.180 --> 24:13.080]  Is that like one step above elevator music?
[24:13.780 --> 24:16.320]  It's a bunch of steps above elevator music, yes.
[24:16.580 --> 24:17.120]  Many steps.
[24:17.360 --> 24:17.560]  Just wondering.
[24:17.860 --> 24:19.240]  Close to Roxy music, though.
[24:19.600 --> 24:20.300]  Maybe, maybe.
[24:21.120 --> 24:26.600]  I was at, this is another letter, I was at Harper's Gas Station in Maycomb, which was closed.
[24:27.340 --> 24:28.680]  It's not important where Maycomb is.
[24:28.840 --> 24:31.200]  And was waiting for a friend to come pick me up.
[24:31.640 --> 24:34.500]  While I was waiting for a ride, the police stopped and harassed me.
[24:34.600 --> 24:38.580]  They asked me to show them my ID and wanted to know why I was poking my nose around there.
[24:38.800 --> 24:40.260]  This would be the Maycomb police.
[24:40.680 --> 24:43.240]  I would imagine being in Maycomb, that would be the Maycomb police.
[24:43.240 --> 24:44.040]  It could be the state police.
[24:44.200 --> 24:44.900]  It's not the Mayberry police.
[24:45.060 --> 24:46.360]  But we don't know what state it is.
[24:46.960 --> 24:47.940]  It's not relevant.
[24:47.940 --> 24:49.180]  It could be any state.
[24:49.300 --> 24:50.720]  If it was the state police, it might be relevant.
[24:50.900 --> 24:51.260]  But go on.
[24:51.320 --> 24:53.800]  It's a state of mind that we all live in right now, okay?
[24:54.460 --> 24:55.240]  I'm going to continue.
[24:55.740 --> 24:59.940]  The fact that I was messing around with the pay phone for no particular reason didn't help matters.
[25:00.140 --> 25:06.440]  There had been a string of local convenience store robberies in the last week, and so they were patrolling all the local gas stations.
[25:06.920 --> 25:11.240]  As soon as the cops figured out I was blind, they stopped acting like I might be dangerous.
[25:11.240 --> 25:16.340]  They assumed that because I had a disability that I could never commit a crime.
[25:16.700 --> 25:19.260]  I feel like knocking over the Texaco station now.
[25:19.960 --> 25:27.560]  I don't want to attract attention by the police any more than you would, but it bothers me that they thought of me as a non-threat simply because my eyes don't work.
[25:27.920 --> 25:32.260]  The police need to investigate more before they decide that all is well and they go off for another donut break.
[25:32.560 --> 25:33.940]  That's just my two cents worth.
[25:34.140 --> 25:35.260]  Don't spend it all in one place.
[25:35.360 --> 25:35.920]  Signed, Byron.
[25:36.380 --> 25:39.100]  He continues, it was very nice meeting you in Dayton at the Hamvention.
[25:39.100 --> 25:46.260]  I was the one who worked with WTND-LP asking where we could get higher quality versions of Off the Hook and Off the Wall.
[25:47.320 --> 25:48.040]  You know what?
[25:48.680 --> 25:49.520]  You're going to love this.
[25:49.580 --> 25:50.480]  I didn't know you were blind.
[25:52.140 --> 25:53.320]  And I thought you were a threat.
[25:53.480 --> 25:53.780]  So there.
[25:54.460 --> 25:55.980]  Hopefully that makes you feel better.
[25:56.140 --> 25:57.420]  But yeah, I've noticed that too.
[25:57.560 --> 26:01.860]  I've noticed that the handicapped are every bit as capable of committing crimes as the non-handicapped.
[26:01.960 --> 26:03.880]  And I think it's time that we realized that.
[26:04.460 --> 26:06.020]  Al-Saham Bin Laden is handicapped.
[26:06.120 --> 26:07.300]  Al-Saham Bin Laden is handicapped.
[26:07.420 --> 26:10.340]  He has like a dialysis machine attached to him or something, hasn't he?
[26:10.920 --> 26:11.580]  Yes, absolutely.
[26:12.000 --> 26:16.720]  That's what makes it so hard to find because there are so many people wandering around the desert with dialysis machines attached to them.
[26:17.820 --> 26:19.660]  It's really hard to pinpoint.
[26:20.000 --> 26:21.520]  Just words of advice for Byram.
[26:21.680 --> 26:31.420]  Don't rob the gas station because frankly, as soon as they send out the APB for a blind robber, those cops will be suspicious of you and they'll pick you up.
[26:32.180 --> 26:32.400]  Yeah.
[26:32.660 --> 26:35.320]  Well, then they'll find out who really is blind because they'll never find them, I'll bet.
[26:36.780 --> 26:39.080]  I'd like to talk about my $90 phone call today.
[26:39.700 --> 26:41.020]  Yes, I made a $90...
[26:41.020 --> 26:41.660]  Where'd you call?
[26:43.080 --> 26:43.480]  Brooklyn.
[26:44.140 --> 26:45.400]  What did you call on?
[26:45.680 --> 26:46.960]  Here's the situation, all right?
[26:47.080 --> 26:49.480]  And let me just make this as brief as possible.
[26:49.680 --> 26:56.460]  And I can be rigged over the calls for this for the rest of the show if necessary, but hopefully I'll get some good suggestions instead.
[26:57.320 --> 27:00.080]  It was 95 degrees all right today.
[27:00.220 --> 27:01.060]  It was very, very hot.
[27:05.060 --> 27:08.140]  Anyway, 95 degrees in the shade, all right?
[27:08.280 --> 27:11.300]  And there I was on the Long Island Expressway.
[27:11.360 --> 27:15.220]  And of course, some dunderhead has to do something stupid with his car and turn it over or something.
[27:15.360 --> 27:19.120]  It was a truck or there was a whole big to-do where nobody was moving.
[27:19.240 --> 27:22.380]  Everybody was just slowing down and coming to a near stop.
[27:22.800 --> 27:26.160]  So I figured, you know, I don't have air conditioning in my car.
[27:26.540 --> 27:30.280]  There was nothing good on the radio and I was bored.
[27:30.280 --> 27:33.480]  So I called a friend of mine and whammo!
[27:34.420 --> 27:36.160]  instantly the alerts went off.
[27:36.280 --> 27:37.360]  Oh my God, a violation.
[27:37.640 --> 27:53.120]  And this cop was on me like you would not believe seeing me on my cell phone going about one mile an hour in the hot sun forced me to pull over through five different lanes of crowded traffic, you know, a side street and the expressway and all that.
[27:53.440 --> 28:04.600]  And finally, after about 10 minutes of that, got to the point where he risked his life to stand outside in traffic on the side street and give me a ticket for talking on a cell phone while I was driving.
[28:05.420 --> 28:07.020]  Now, how silly is that?
[28:07.160 --> 28:18.060]  Okay, you've got a situation where nobody is driving fast at all, where it's muggy and hot and disgusting and this is what they're looking for?
[28:18.200 --> 28:21.660]  This is what they're finding people at fault for talking on a cell phone?
[28:22.620 --> 28:23.960]  Does anybody understand this?
[28:24.820 --> 28:25.300]  No?
[28:26.100 --> 28:27.000]  You're all dumbfounded?
[28:27.820 --> 28:28.300]  Bernie?
[28:28.520 --> 28:29.840]  Are you going to fight this, Emmanuel?
[28:29.840 --> 28:31.340]  I can't fight it, I'm guilty.
[28:31.500 --> 28:33.480]  I was talking on a cell phone while driving.
[28:33.540 --> 28:39.960]  The thing is, I was driving very, very slowly and I asked the guy, you know, how many people do you really get doing this?
[28:40.120 --> 28:43.080]  I get quite a few, you know, when they're going slow enough that I can see them.
[28:43.940 --> 28:45.100]  Now, think about that for a second.
[28:46.360 --> 28:57.420]  If there was a threat at all, and I really debate this, but if there is a threat from talking on a cell phone while you're driving, wouldn't it be at the higher speeds that there'd be a threat not going one mile an hour or two miles an hour?
[28:57.660 --> 29:04.680]  Seems like they're only getting the people that they can see but they're not getting the people they can't see who actually could be causing some kind of a threat.
[29:05.160 --> 29:14.780]  And as far as actually whether it does pose a risk, I debate that because, well, tuning your radio can cause a risk if you're not good at concentrating on two things at once.
[29:14.980 --> 29:15.880]  Putting on your makeup.
[29:16.620 --> 29:22.420]  I disagree with that because I've seen a lot of people drive with phones that they shouldn't be driving to be given Absolutely.
[29:22.420 --> 29:27.680]  I agree, but does that więc there are people who can't handle doing two things at once that I can't do two things at once?
[29:27.880 --> 29:30.740]  No, but I think another funny thing is that this happens a lot to me.
[29:30.820 --> 29:37.900]  And as soon as I see a cop, I'm like, okay, you know, like, I'll put the cell phone down and say, hold on a second, which first of all, can be more of a risk than actually just talking.
[29:37.920 --> 29:38.400]  I've done that too, and I agree.
[29:38.500 --> 29:39.680]  It is more of a risk because...
[29:39.680 --> 29:46.480]  And second, I've passed many cops, which I was concerned would pull me over for talking on the phone, and they were talking on the phone and, you know...
[29:46.480 --> 29:47.240]  While driving?
[29:47.380 --> 29:48.280]  Oh, yeah, exactly.
[29:48.700 --> 29:52.340]  Well, they tear through the red lights here in New York like nobody's business, so I'm not surprised.
[29:53.240 --> 29:57.000]  It just, you know, I mean, I have to say this.
[29:57.120 --> 30:00.340]  Cops are the biggest drama queens in the world, all right?
[30:00.440 --> 30:01.180]  You know why that is?
[30:01.200 --> 30:02.760]  Because they find fault with everything.
[30:02.820 --> 30:06.500]  When a cop pulls out onto the road, all right, just watch what they do.
[30:06.560 --> 30:13.560]  They always pull over somebody within five minutes, tops, one minute more likely, because someone's always doing something wrong.
[30:13.740 --> 30:15.140]  Oh, your blinker's not quite right.
[30:15.180 --> 30:16.280]  Your lights aren't bright enough.
[30:16.500 --> 30:19.220]  You know, you didn't switch lanes in quite the proper way.
[30:19.320 --> 30:20.220]  I don't like the way you look.
[30:20.220 --> 30:20.840]  Things like that.
[30:20.960 --> 30:26.920]  You know, they always pull people over for one reason or another, and I just happened to be in the right place at the right time for this person.
[30:27.080 --> 30:28.000]  I wasn't causing a threat.
[30:28.000 --> 30:32.120]  I was talking to a friend on the phone because I was hot, bored, and not moving very fast.
[30:32.660 --> 30:35.360]  And that, somehow, that cost $90.
[30:35.940 --> 30:37.520]  $40 ticket, $50 surcharge.
[30:38.420 --> 30:46.980]  And, you know, what I'll do, what I'll do is, I will get whatever device is required, as long as that device is safe, but I don't believe it is.
[30:47.080 --> 30:48.680]  Do you guys know what devices exist?
[30:48.680 --> 30:48.900]  Headsets.
[30:49.180 --> 30:49.680]  Hands-free.
[30:49.900 --> 30:52.260]  Wearing a headset while you're driving is not safe.
[30:52.260 --> 30:52.820]  I'm sorry.
[30:52.960 --> 30:53.280]  Exactly.
[30:53.520 --> 31:04.220]  I don't think... Because you're covering your ears, it's a lot easier for me to remove the phone from my ear than to take a headset off if I suddenly need to be alert, or if something is happening that I need to pay close attention to.
[31:04.220 --> 31:10.960]  I believe there was a study, too, a few months ago that showed that the headsets didn't make any difference.
[31:11.100 --> 31:11.900]  Of course they don't.
[31:12.000 --> 31:14.660]  Of course, because people are concentrating on the conversation.
[31:15.180 --> 31:15.940]  What difference does it make?
[31:16.080 --> 31:18.200]  I could have had my hand up to my head.
[31:18.400 --> 31:18.920]  All right?
[31:19.000 --> 31:22.260]  It takes the same amount of concentration to put my hand there than it does to put the phone there.
[31:22.860 --> 31:24.680]  So, would that have been illegal, too?
[31:25.180 --> 31:25.580]  You know?
[31:25.700 --> 31:26.940]  Is that causing a threat?
[31:27.480 --> 31:28.720]  Well, here's my question.
[31:28.940 --> 31:33.980]  Suppose you have a passenger in the front seat, and they hold the phone up to your ear.
[31:35.080 --> 31:37.000]  Now, technically, are you liable?
[31:37.160 --> 31:38.180]  That's an interesting question.
[31:38.240 --> 31:38.980]  That's a very interesting question.
[31:38.980 --> 31:39.820]  You're talking on the phone, though.
[31:39.880 --> 31:40.880]  I believe that's what the law is.
[31:40.880 --> 31:41.480]  No, no, no, no, no.
[31:41.500 --> 31:43.500]  You can talk on the phone as long as you have a hands-free device.
[31:43.760 --> 31:43.840]  Yeah.
[31:44.140 --> 31:45.800]  Let me see what the actual ticket says here.
[31:46.580 --> 31:47.440]  Now that I actually have one.
[31:47.440 --> 31:49.820]  I just want to point out two philosophical points.
[31:50.180 --> 31:53.500]  Number one, the bit about the cops, they always pull people over.
[31:53.720 --> 31:57.900]  That's the same philosophy as when you are a hammer, everything looks like a nail.
[31:58.080 --> 31:59.720]  They are paid to pull people over.
[31:59.800 --> 32:00.800]  That's what cops do.
[32:00.880 --> 32:01.100]  Do not be surprised.
[32:01.100 --> 32:02.460]  They're paid to find fault with everything.
[32:02.540 --> 32:04.260]  There's always all these people violating traffic laws.
[32:04.420 --> 32:10.680]  It really shouldn't be that hard to find someone who's doing something If you're violating an actual traffic law, then yes, I should get a ticket.
[32:10.820 --> 32:15.220]  But just simply having a device, I don't think that qualifies as violating.
[32:15.220 --> 32:16.880]  If I was driving unsafely, fine.
[32:17.000 --> 32:17.540]  Give me a ticket.
[32:17.600 --> 32:18.820]  But I was not driving unsafely.
[32:18.980 --> 32:20.160]  So you should go fight it.
[32:20.620 --> 32:22.020]  How do I fight that?
[32:22.140 --> 32:24.020]  You can't fight it because I think it's an ordinance.
[32:24.020 --> 32:32.680]  The other philosophical point is you say the cop pulled you over because at one mile an hour he could see you, whereas at 70 miles an hour it's really dangerous.
[32:32.680 --> 32:33.560]  He can't see anybody.
[32:33.720 --> 32:34.620]  And at night he couldn't see me either.
[32:34.620 --> 32:35.900]  It's the same thing.
[32:36.180 --> 32:40.100]  A guy hits somebody over the head, gets five bucks out of his pocket, he gets arrested.
[32:40.360 --> 32:47.520]  The guy who goes in via computer or embezzles at the bank, takes $10 million he's never seen, gets away with it.
[32:47.560 --> 32:48.220]  Interesting parallel.
[32:48.460 --> 32:48.680]  Interesting.
[32:49.060 --> 32:52.700]  The actual ticket says cell phone use by driver while driving.
[32:53.740 --> 32:56.940]  Actually, it says by diver while driving, but never mind that.
[32:58.260 --> 32:59.060]  So I don't know.
[32:59.060 --> 32:59.720]  Would that qualify?
[32:59.800 --> 33:01.880]  If someone else was holding it to my head, would I be using it?
[33:02.280 --> 33:03.060]  That's a good question.
[33:03.060 --> 33:04.560]  I think if I'm talking on it, I'm using it.
[33:04.560 --> 33:05.640]  What if you had a landline?
[33:06.220 --> 33:07.240]  In my car?
[33:07.440 --> 33:07.820]  Yes.
[33:08.340 --> 33:11.020]  Jim, Jim, your proposals are getting more and more insane.
[33:11.040 --> 33:12.520]  Big long wire trailing after me?
[33:12.780 --> 33:13.480]  Try it.
[33:13.600 --> 33:14.260]  See what happens.
[33:14.660 --> 33:17.520]  I think I'll get a ticket for something else then, and rightfully so.
[33:17.700 --> 33:19.080]  You'll deserve whatever you get.
[33:19.260 --> 33:27.800]  I just would be remiss if I did not point out in this conversation that cell phone use is perfectly legal and works on the Long Island Railroad.
[33:27.800 --> 33:32.520]  Yeah, but do you know how annoying it is when people are constantly yammering away on a train next to you?
[33:32.860 --> 33:33.860]  That really annoys me.
[33:34.440 --> 33:38.000]  I can sort of sympathize because, all right, where do you use your cell phone now?
[33:38.340 --> 33:39.800]  People don't want you using it in your car.
[33:39.980 --> 33:41.240]  They don't want you using it on the train.
[33:41.320 --> 33:42.780]  They don't want you using it in restaurants.
[33:43.320 --> 33:47.120]  And there's no reason to use it in your home because you have a wire phone in your home, or some of us do anyway.
[33:47.680 --> 33:50.840]  So I'm debating just throwing the things into the river or something.
[33:51.620 --> 33:53.120]  Well, that's where everything gets thrown anyway.
[33:53.120 --> 33:54.720]  You should recycle it.
[33:55.000 --> 33:56.720]  The cell phones are actually pretty toxic.
[33:56.940 --> 33:57.940]  Well, yeah, they are.
[33:58.340 --> 33:58.820]  They are.
[33:58.940 --> 33:59.680]  They proved that today.
[34:01.740 --> 34:02.880]  Yeah, so I don't know.
[34:03.040 --> 34:09.100]  If anybody knows a device out there that is not unsafe to use that is legal, like a speaker phone, for instance, would be nice.
[34:09.280 --> 34:10.620]  But, you know, I have two different phones.
[34:10.660 --> 34:12.280]  I have a GSM phone and a CDMA phone.
[34:12.420 --> 34:15.780]  What happens if I'm using one phone or I have one plug in and the other one rings?
[34:15.880 --> 34:18.000]  So I have to unplug something, plug something else in?
[34:18.080 --> 34:22.520]  I think that's a lot more dangerous than picking up a phone and putting it to my ear while I'm driving.
[34:23.120 --> 34:24.740]  There's two legal points here, Emmanuel.
[34:25.180 --> 34:37.500]  One is, your citation does not say you are doing anything illegal, because it does not specify that you are using a cell phone in a non-hands-free basis.
[34:38.040 --> 34:41.680]  The other thing is, which is more technical, is it's a cell phone.
[34:42.060 --> 34:45.520]  And if it's using the 1900 megahertz, it's not cellular.
[34:45.520 --> 34:46.380]  You're not going to win.
[34:47.040 --> 34:50.420]  You know, you could be my attorney, Bernie.
[34:50.560 --> 34:58.400]  If you want to come up and argue that point, that it's actually not cellular phone, and that it... The first one may be a fatal legal flaw, the fact that it says it's not hands-free.
[34:58.560 --> 35:02.820]  Well, I mean, I don't feel right arguing this, because what it says here is true.
[35:03.180 --> 35:11.320]  And, you know, I don't... Is it where you're actually driving, or are you merely moving forward without... I think if you're moving, if you're in gear in any sense, you are driving.
[35:11.460 --> 35:13.040]  If you weren't driving, it would be a lot worse.
[35:13.040 --> 35:16.940]  They've held that if you're drunk and the car is parked, you're driving for legal purposes.
[35:17.160 --> 35:17.840]  I have another question.
[35:18.000 --> 35:20.060]  Is this a moving violation as in... I don't know.
[35:20.280 --> 35:21.920]  I guess, you know, do I get points for this?
[35:21.920 --> 35:23.300]  It's a silly thing to get points for.
[35:23.400 --> 35:32.040]  A lot of things that seem corrupt, but municipalities are willing to do is allow you to pay more for no points on your insurance.
[35:32.300 --> 35:37.800]  Well, then... But, but, I mean, I wind up paying for the points, so how does that balance out?
[35:37.840 --> 35:48.700]  It may not apply in this case, but, I mean, you know, it tends to cost more if your insurance... Well, you could go to the court anyway and see if the judge will... Here's... No, I don't want to go to court.
[35:48.860 --> 35:49.880]  I've had enough with courts.
[35:49.880 --> 35:51.160]  I've had enough with cops.
[35:51.380 --> 35:52.740]  I don't want to deal with it.
[35:52.820 --> 35:52.960]  Fine.
[35:53.020 --> 35:56.480]  I'll pay the 90 bucks, but I just want to go on... That's what they want you to do.
[35:56.560 --> 35:57.900]  I know, but I don't have time for this.
[35:58.060 --> 35:59.340]  I just don't have time to go to court.
[35:59.460 --> 36:00.320]  I'll be away all summer.
[36:00.820 --> 36:02.000]  I just think it's a stupid law.
[36:02.100 --> 36:04.480]  I thought it was a stupid law from the beginning, and I think now that's living proof.
[36:04.620 --> 36:10.720]  And I just want to warn people out there, be careful, because they're looking for you, and if you're moving one mile an hour, they'll get you and feel like they've accomplished something.
[36:10.860 --> 36:12.060]  It's really pretty ridiculous.
[36:12.800 --> 36:14.260]  So that's where that stands.
[36:14.560 --> 36:15.300]  One quick thing.
[36:15.380 --> 36:17.640]  Is there a law against walkie-talkie use in cars?
[36:18.040 --> 36:18.780]  I'm very serious.
[36:18.980 --> 36:19.500]  I don't know.
[36:19.660 --> 36:20.620]  I don't think there is.
[36:20.780 --> 36:22.320]  I use my hand radio all the time in the car.
[36:22.500 --> 36:22.500]  Perfect.
[36:22.720 --> 36:27.800]  Get a walkie-talkie that looks like a cell phone and get on it all the darn time to a friend or whatever.
[36:28.300 --> 36:28.720]  Am radio.
[36:28.860 --> 36:31.020]  I've done it constantly, and I've never been bothered.
[36:31.160 --> 36:31.960]  Yeah, then laugh at the cop.
[36:31.980 --> 36:34.080]  I think they would pull you over if they saw you doing it.
[36:34.140 --> 36:35.680]  Then you can have a nice little explanation with them.
[36:36.100 --> 36:37.400]  But I don't know.
[36:37.620 --> 36:40.080]  It's a good question if that is covered under this law.
[36:40.220 --> 36:40.780]  It should be.
[36:40.900 --> 36:41.300]  Why not?
[36:41.400 --> 36:42.180]  Why shouldn't that be covered?
[36:42.280 --> 36:42.520]  It should be.
[36:42.580 --> 36:44.040]  But a lot of things should be covered.
[36:44.180 --> 36:46.320]  A hamburger should be covered, I think.
[36:47.280 --> 36:51.160]  It's a lot harder to eat a hamburger while you're driving than it is to talk on a cell phone.
[36:51.300 --> 36:56.620]  Yet, for some reason, it's okay to have a Big Mac on you and be driving down the expressway, but not a cell phone.
[36:56.720 --> 36:58.980]  That alone should be illegal, having a Big Mac on you.
[36:59.040 --> 37:00.420]  Well, I agree with that.
[37:00.540 --> 37:01.860]  But just saying, a lot of people do these things.
[37:02.720 --> 37:08.220]  So anyway, if anyone's trying to reach me on a cell phone, it's going to be a lot harder now because I'm turning the things off whenever I'm in a car.
[37:08.300 --> 37:13.820]  And since that's most of the time that I talk to people anyway, since I don't get cell reception in my house, I don't know.
[37:13.880 --> 37:14.920]  I don't know if I need cell phones anymore.
[37:15.480 --> 37:16.520]  It's kind of silly.
[37:17.240 --> 37:22.360]  Okay, we have some updates on that particular, I guess, wave of the future.
[37:22.540 --> 37:31.460]  State lawmakers across the USA are cracking down on distracted driving as research increasingly documents the perils of inattentiveness behind the wheel.
[37:32.180 --> 37:40.080]  New research indicates that drivers talking on cell phones or fiddling with the car radio sometimes perform as poorly as drunken drivers.
[37:40.660 --> 37:43.160]  That's what we said before, fiddling with the car radio.
[37:43.320 --> 37:44.940]  So they should make that illegal as well.
[37:45.100 --> 37:46.140]  Or being tired when you're driving.
[37:46.360 --> 37:46.740]  That's true.
[37:47.520 --> 37:53.360]  Colorado, Delaware, Maryland, and Tennessee have banned cell phone use by young drivers this year.
[37:53.420 --> 37:54.200]  Only young drivers.
[37:54.680 --> 37:59.640]  A similar ban approved last week by Illinois legislators awaits the governor's signature.
[38:00.120 --> 38:07.200]  This year, 37 states have debated new laws restricting drivers' use of cell phones, according to the National Conference of State Legislatures.
[38:08.000 --> 38:18.360]  The rush comes as research at the University of Minnesota said, and the University of Utah, conclude that drivers talking on cell phones or fiddling with the car radio sometimes perform poorly like drunk drivers do.
[38:19.180 --> 38:22.420]  New electronic devices that allow drivers to surf the internet.
[38:22.700 --> 38:27.660]  Okay, you know, that's going... anytime you have to take your eyes off the road, yes, that's very bad.
[38:27.860 --> 38:29.380]  You don't have to do that with a cell phone.
[38:29.460 --> 38:32.020]  I can dial a cell phone with my hand without even looking at it.
[38:32.560 --> 38:40.560]  Send and receive email, get online directions, or watch DVDs may create even more distractions.
[38:40.820 --> 38:42.500]  Of course, this is totally different.
[38:43.260 --> 38:44.060]  Good Lord.
[38:44.960 --> 38:46.900]  All right, you know, I've talked enough about this.
[38:46.900 --> 38:48.260]  I want to watch a DVD while driving.
[38:48.360 --> 38:48.920]  That sounds entertaining.
[38:49.180 --> 38:49.920]  There are people who do that.
[38:50.080 --> 38:51.580]  You know, those are the people they should be going after.
[38:51.740 --> 38:55.060]  It reminds me of that Simpsons episode where Homer gets all the things in the car.
[38:55.240 --> 39:04.000]  It's not illegal, ironically, to put a TV on your steering wheel, but it's illegal once you have the TV there.
[39:04.580 --> 39:06.780]  In other words, people who put it there, it's quite okay.
[39:06.940 --> 39:10.440]  In closing, let me just say, I see a lot of idiots driving SUVs.
[39:10.500 --> 39:12.880]  In fact, most of the accidents I see are caused by SUVs.
[39:13.000 --> 39:16.360]  That does not mean that everybody driving an SUV is driving dangerously.
[39:16.460 --> 39:21.880]  However, with this logic, I would have to conclude that and charge them every time I saw them, which actually might not be such a bad idea.
[39:22.140 --> 39:25.640]  I might be prepared to argue that point, but let's move on.
[39:25.880 --> 39:27.540]  212-209-2900.
[39:27.680 --> 39:27.980]  Yes, Bernie.
[39:28.420 --> 39:28.900]  One last thing.
[39:29.020 --> 39:42.520]  It's noteworthy that many police officers, especially the ones in here in Philadelphia I see, virtually all of them in their police cars have mobile data terminals, or basically a hardened Panasonic Toughbook, it's called, a Panasonic Notebook computer,
[39:42.720 --> 39:51.180]  between the seats, and, you know, they can see all kinds of stuff on the screen while they're driving, and I think that's far more distracting than a lot of things.
[39:51.220 --> 39:54.020]  Oh, sure, but isn't that partner supposed to be the one looking at that?
[39:54.140 --> 39:55.500]  But they're much better drivers than us.
[39:55.960 --> 39:57.300]  Of course, yeah, but seriously.
[39:57.320 --> 39:58.800]  A lot of times there's only one person in the car.
[39:59.560 --> 40:00.200]  That's ridiculous.
[40:00.340 --> 40:09.200]  But I do have to say, you know, the whole process of pulling me over, which took about 10 minutes, was far more of a risk to traffic and safety than anything that I was being pulled over for.
[40:09.620 --> 40:10.200]  Really silly.
[40:10.840 --> 40:13.660]  All right, I'd like to know if other people have experienced similar things, what they think about that.
[40:13.760 --> 40:21.920]  212-209-2900, and of course other things going on in the world of technology and computers and phones and various things like that.
[40:22.100 --> 40:23.660]  Let's take a listener phone call.
[40:24.160 --> 40:24.800]  Good evening.
[40:24.940 --> 40:25.340]  You're on the air.
[40:26.440 --> 40:27.080]  Yes, thank you.
[40:27.280 --> 40:31.420]  I'm sorry, I missed what you were saying about the Covance legal suit.
[40:31.660 --> 40:34.160]  Could you repeat or expound on it a bit, please?
[40:34.360 --> 40:34.560]  Mike?
[40:35.080 --> 40:35.480]  Sure.
[40:36.160 --> 40:43.560]  Covance, as we've said, has been suing people left and right all over the world for... Our caller has left us, but go ahead.
[40:43.560 --> 40:52.900]  For posting videos of the abuse of animals that takes place in their facilities, usually on the internet, but through other means as well.
[40:53.120 --> 41:04.000]  And we've been saying, and Covance has said in court in the UK even, that a lawsuit of this nature in the United States would be very difficult to win.
[41:04.660 --> 41:08.380]  And now they are filing such a lawsuit in the United States.
[41:08.540 --> 41:18.480]  What makes this one somewhat different from some of the others, is that they're suing not the folks who are distributing the video, but rather those who produced it.
[41:18.740 --> 41:20.960]  So there is an important legal difference.
[41:21.100 --> 41:25.380]  It's still, as far as we know, legal to watch and distribute this video.
[41:26.140 --> 41:30.560]  But the folks who produced it are being sued, and we'll see how that goes.
[41:31.700 --> 41:33.040]  One note to our listeners.
[41:33.280 --> 41:38.000]  Okay, with the... You don't have to send us the story about the hacking sentence.
[41:38.160 --> 41:39.760]  I've seen this about a dozen times.
[41:40.740 --> 41:44.700]  Yes, I guess if you scan for the word hacking, you would have seen this story.
[41:45.400 --> 41:52.580]  But basically, this guy named Mark Hacking was sentenced for, I think, chopping his wife up or something like that.
[41:52.640 --> 41:55.420]  And everybody decided to send us the story because it had something to do with hacking.
[41:55.520 --> 41:56.780]  Hacking sentence for killing wife.
[41:57.460 --> 42:02.640]  Yeah, it's got nothing to do with hackers, but it's kind of interesting.
[42:02.640 --> 42:06.820]  Did you hear about the guy who was caught in London for breaking into the military networks?
[42:06.820 --> 42:09.600]  Yes, the biggest hacker in the world, I believe.
[42:09.920 --> 42:14.740]  And they weren't talking about his size, they're talking about his... I'm wondering what makes him bigger than anyone else.
[42:14.900 --> 42:15.360]  I don't know.
[42:15.620 --> 42:18.320]  He broke into all those military networks and looked for UFOs.
[42:18.400 --> 42:19.400]  UFOs, yeah, maybe that's it.
[42:19.580 --> 42:20.080]  We miss them.
[42:20.240 --> 42:20.920]  Is that what he was doing?
[42:21.000 --> 42:21.880]  He was looking for UFOs?
[42:22.100 --> 42:23.100]  UFO evidence, yeah.
[42:23.700 --> 42:25.100]  Like evidence of a cover-up.
[42:25.100 --> 42:25.580]  I'm not saying that.
[42:25.860 --> 42:26.720]  Yeah, well...
[42:26.720 --> 42:36.080]  This is his attorney's defense, and his attorney is publicly stating that, quote, his motivation was to try to prove the existence of UFOs, end quote.
[42:36.700 --> 42:39.060]  I mean, I don't think I want that lawyer.
[42:40.000 --> 42:41.340]  Well, it's an interesting approach.
[42:41.340 --> 42:45.320]  It's never been tried before, so, you know, let's see where it goes.
[42:45.820 --> 42:47.440]  Maybe we'll even find some UFOs, too.
[42:47.640 --> 42:49.160]  Where exactly was he hacking into?
[42:49.360 --> 42:50.500]  The Pentagon, I think.
[42:51.080 --> 42:52.140]  That's where the info on the UFOs is?
[42:52.140 --> 42:53.820]  Different military networks.
[42:53.900 --> 42:54.800]  I don't remember the names.
[42:54.800 --> 42:57.020]  Seventy of them, or some such outrageous number.
[42:57.180 --> 42:58.480]  But again, what makes him the biggest hacker?
[42:59.340 --> 43:00.300]  Good nutrition.
[43:00.920 --> 43:01.120]  Uh-huh.
[43:01.640 --> 43:02.260]  The U.S.
[43:03.200 --> 43:11.780]  attorney for the Eastern District of Virginia claims, quote, Mr. McKinnon is charged with the biggest military computer hack of all time, quote.
[43:12.100 --> 43:16.700]  Now, would that not be a self-serving, blustery kind of comment?
[43:17.380 --> 43:17.900]  Yes.
[43:18.760 --> 43:25.840]  You know, prosecutors are notorious for, like, self-serving, like, I've got the, you know, the most dangerous guy in the world.
[43:26.120 --> 43:30.000]  The biggest drug ring, the most money, the largest amount of drugs seized, etc., etc.
[43:30.280 --> 43:34.200]  Yeah, it's old news, and I'm sure we'll see it many times to come.
[43:34.300 --> 43:38.340]  But we'll follow this story, too, as it progresses or regresses or whatever.
[43:38.580 --> 43:41.520]  Let's take another phone call, 212-209-2900.
[43:41.720 --> 43:42.180]  Good evening.
[43:42.320 --> 43:42.580]  You're on.
[43:43.280 --> 43:43.780]  Good evening.
[43:44.320 --> 44:01.040]  I kind of came in near the end of the last topic, but, and I hate to sound gender biased or sexist, as it may be, but it bugs me when I'm driving to see mainly females struggling to get in position while they're talking on the phone.
[44:02.300 --> 44:03.260]  I'm, I'm...
[44:03.260 --> 44:04.480]  Struggling to get into position?
[44:04.480 --> 44:12.480]  Well, I'm talking about when they're driving, changing lanes, turning corners, what have you, and they're on their cell phones.
[44:12.680 --> 44:18.940]  Now, hands-free pieces only cost, what, $15, you know?
[44:19.240 --> 44:24.640]  And, you know, well, as you said, driving with a hamburger is more dangerous.
[44:24.900 --> 44:35.540]  Yeah, you see, and I wouldn't have a problem with the hands-free devices, except I really believe they're even more dangerous, because you have to wire yourself up to these things, and you get entangled in them.
[44:36.040 --> 44:39.580]  But, no, what you're saying is that people are driving unsafely because of this.
[44:40.260 --> 44:45.420]  They're switching lanes and doing all kinds of things, and that right there, if you're switching lanes unsafely, that's your ticket.
[44:45.620 --> 44:46.940]  That's what you're doing that's wrong.
[44:47.160 --> 44:47.480]  Right, right.
[44:48.180 --> 44:54.520]  But, yeah, I must admit, the driving and talking on the phone has to add to that a little bit, don't you think?
[44:54.860 --> 44:56.460]  Any conversation can add to that.
[44:56.540 --> 44:58.880]  Having a conversation in the front seat of your car can certainly add to that.
[44:58.940 --> 45:01.440]  I've seen people distracted with all kinds of arguments that take place.
[45:01.440 --> 45:03.220]  All right, let's not go to the extreme.
[45:03.460 --> 45:05.540]  We're just talking about that particular thing.
[45:05.820 --> 45:11.760]  I mean, sure, I've driven without my hands-free and had no problem talking on the phone.
[45:11.920 --> 45:21.600]  But, just like you have drivers that have two hands on the wheel and still have problems, some people don't need to be driving with phones.
[45:21.800 --> 45:33.380]  You know, it's kind of an amusing statistic that practically everyone except, you know, some of the folks here think they're a much better driver than the rest of the population, and some of them must be wrong.
[45:33.380 --> 45:35.860]  Well, some of them are wrong, but the thing is, you know...
[45:35.860 --> 45:37.620]  The cops take it to the extreme, so...
[45:37.620 --> 45:40.240]  Well, regardless, this is just a money raiser for...
[45:40.240 --> 45:44.300]  It's a money raiser, and plus, they're treating everybody like they're completely incompetent morons.
[45:44.520 --> 45:46.260]  But from their standpoint, everyone's doing this.
[45:46.340 --> 45:47.660]  Everyone forgets to put their seatbelt on.
[45:47.760 --> 45:52.340]  Everyone talks on the cell phone, you know, generalizing, but this is what they use to make money, and it's working for them.
[45:53.280 --> 46:00.280]  And also to create an element of fear, you know, in everybody, where you always think that you have to be on your best behavior and perfect and don't do anything wrong.
[46:00.880 --> 46:03.460]  Right, and they always find new ways to do that.
[46:04.760 --> 46:05.300]  All right.
[46:05.460 --> 46:05.880]  Thanks for your call.
[46:06.100 --> 46:06.740]  Take care.
[46:07.740 --> 46:10.560]  But yeah, you know, every time you pass a cop on the road, you get all nervous.
[46:10.580 --> 46:11.120]  Why is that?
[46:11.200 --> 46:18.200]  Why should you have to, like, you know, feel that you're about to be blamed for something that, you know, you probably didn't even do in the first place?
[46:18.620 --> 46:18.980]  It's...
[46:18.980 --> 46:23.780]  That in itself, I think, creates unsafe situations where people are afraid.
[46:24.720 --> 46:25.480]  Let's take another phone call.
[46:25.580 --> 46:25.960]  Good evening.
[46:26.120 --> 46:26.980]  You're on the air.
[46:27.560 --> 46:28.180]  Yeah, hi.
[46:28.420 --> 46:29.920]  You're right about all that stuff.
[46:29.920 --> 46:31.060]  I've been hearing you talking about.
[46:31.840 --> 46:36.420]  I was pulled over because my left-hand light was out.
[46:36.540 --> 46:37.820]  My headlight on my car was out.
[46:38.080 --> 46:38.440]  Okay.
[46:38.460 --> 46:40.940]  All of a sudden, the cop pulls me over.
[46:41.000 --> 46:42.200]  I'm like, how come you pulled me over?
[46:42.340 --> 46:43.420]  I'll kill you if your light is out.
[46:43.560 --> 46:46.440]  Now, I didn't know my light was out because I'm behind the light.
[46:46.440 --> 46:47.120]  I'm driving.
[46:47.480 --> 46:48.980]  But they give you a ticket still.
[46:49.540 --> 46:53.400]  Also, I'm a smoker, and I talk on the phone when I drive.
[46:53.400 --> 46:58.480]  But I got a ticket for talking on my ReadyLink from my PCS.
[46:58.900 --> 47:00.380]  And I don't know if that was...
[47:00.380 --> 47:02.240]  That's not actually a telephone call.
[47:02.400 --> 47:03.320]  That's a...
[47:04.300 --> 47:05.560]  Like walkie-talkie.
[47:05.780 --> 47:06.080]  Oh.
[47:06.540 --> 47:07.720]  Well, there's your answer then.
[47:08.320 --> 47:08.660]  Yeah.
[47:08.720 --> 47:13.420]  So I used it in court, but the judge, she didn't honor it.
[47:13.580 --> 47:14.560]  And I still got a ticket.
[47:14.740 --> 47:15.740]  I still had to pay my fine.
[47:15.740 --> 47:16.360]  Mm-hmm.
[47:17.440 --> 47:21.200]  You know, you can get out of the headlight one, simply by fixing the headlight, right?
[47:21.880 --> 47:22.460]  Yeah, yeah.
[47:22.580 --> 47:22.800]  Okay.
[47:22.800 --> 47:26.560]  I got the headlight, but I felt like I got my head cut off.
[47:26.760 --> 47:27.480]  Yeah, absolutely.
[47:27.680 --> 47:29.760]  Well, you know, it's pretty unfair, I think.
[47:30.180 --> 47:30.540]  It's not fair.
[47:30.580 --> 47:31.020]  It's not right.
[47:31.560 --> 47:32.000]  All right.
[47:32.080 --> 47:32.940]  Well, my condolences.
[47:34.040 --> 47:34.540]  Thank you.
[47:34.660 --> 47:35.280]  And have a good day.
[47:35.420 --> 47:35.720]  Take care.
[47:36.220 --> 47:37.060]  So there you have it.
[47:37.340 --> 47:39.440]  Walkie-talkie devices will be treated the same way in court.
[47:39.520 --> 47:40.640]  I can't say I'm surprised by that.
[47:41.320 --> 47:42.500]  I can't say I'm at all surprised.
[47:42.680 --> 47:44.220]  What about ham radios, though?
[47:45.200 --> 47:47.440]  Oh, we can try CBs, I guess, next, you know?
[47:47.720 --> 47:49.840]  It'd be funny if they outlaw CBs while you're driving.
[47:50.040 --> 47:50.300]  Oh.
[47:50.440 --> 47:51.040]  They might as well.
[47:51.120 --> 47:51.540]  Why not?
[47:51.820 --> 47:52.220]  Come on.
[47:52.260 --> 47:57.820]  Tell me how talking on a CB while you're driving is any less distracting than talking on a cell phone.
[47:57.960 --> 48:01.700]  That's true, because you have the hand piece, the hand piece that you speak into.
[48:01.900 --> 48:02.080]  Yeah.
[48:02.360 --> 48:04.320]  You know, I'm going to demand that they outlaw those things.
[48:04.500 --> 48:05.540]  There are a lot more...
[48:05.540 --> 48:07.680]  Especially the sort of stupid conversations that go on on that band.
[48:08.020 --> 48:08.380]  Yes.
[48:08.600 --> 48:10.160]  We've got a mighty convoy.
[48:10.360 --> 48:10.560]  Yeah.
[48:10.680 --> 48:10.980]  All right.
[48:11.160 --> 48:11.500]  Good evening.
[48:11.620 --> 48:11.980]  You're on the air.
[48:13.200 --> 48:13.500]  Hello?
[48:13.500 --> 48:14.260]  Yes, go ahead.
[48:14.540 --> 48:15.380]  Emmanuel, hi.
[48:15.740 --> 48:16.140]  How are you doing?
[48:16.180 --> 48:17.600]  I haven't called you guys in a long time.
[48:17.720 --> 48:18.780]  I don't know if you remember me.
[48:18.940 --> 48:21.140]  I promised you with the counterfeit money.
[48:21.340 --> 48:23.740]  You were the guy who would bring counterfeit money to a meeting, and you never did.
[48:24.820 --> 48:28.760]  I'm afraid to get you personally, but I promise you I'm going to mail it to you.
[48:28.860 --> 48:31.700]  Look, you know, anyone from out of me will watch your back.
[48:31.860 --> 48:31.980]  Yeah.
[48:32.200 --> 48:33.340]  Use FedEx to send it to me.
[48:33.400 --> 48:34.000]  I hear that works.
[48:34.340 --> 48:34.600]  Okay.
[48:34.760 --> 48:35.180]  All right.
[48:35.340 --> 48:35.640]  I'll decide.
[48:35.800 --> 48:36.740]  You know what I have also for you?
[48:43.500 --> 48:45.080]  You're already reverse-engineered.
[48:45.400 --> 48:46.880]  So you just, you know, figure it out yourself.
[48:47.060 --> 48:52.360]  Anyway, I heard you talking about, you know, the FBI talking, trying to limit people using the phone in the airplane.
[48:53.260 --> 48:53.760]  I'm sorry.
[48:54.020 --> 48:54.440]  Could you...
[48:54.440 --> 48:55.480]  You're breaking up a little bit.
[48:55.980 --> 48:56.220]  Okay.
[48:56.360 --> 48:59.820]  I heard you talking about the FBI trying to limit the use of cell phones.
[49:00.020 --> 49:00.780]  In airplanes, yes.
[49:01.140 --> 49:01.600]  In airplanes.
[49:02.060 --> 49:04.080]  I don't know what's going on.
[49:04.200 --> 49:14.920]  You know, I heard, I know a story, first-hand story of someone from Arab descent with a phone call, a blank phone call, actually, to his girlfriend, joking about how he's going to hijack the airplane.
[49:15.180 --> 49:15.780]  And guess what?
[49:16.040 --> 49:16.240]  Wow.
[49:16.820 --> 49:17.580]  Guess what?
[49:18.160 --> 49:23.180]  You land in the airplane, they arrest him, and he's in somewhere out there, I don't know where.
[49:23.180 --> 49:25.640]  And that wasn't too far away, by the way, like a couple of months ago.
[49:26.140 --> 49:29.660]  Well, could a fellow passenger have overheard him, say, sitting next to him?
[49:29.720 --> 49:30.860]  I don't think so.
[49:31.140 --> 49:33.640]  No, I didn't know the whole story, but I know for a fact.
[49:33.720 --> 49:37.960]  I was talking to his girlfriend, which is in Europe, and he was in the U.S.
[49:38.200 --> 49:40.860]  also, but you know, way up in the air, 35,000 feet.
[49:41.320 --> 49:47.520]  And he made this call as a joke, and he's, you know, I don't know where he is, but he's not my friend.
[49:47.640 --> 49:53.580]  The basis of their argument used to be that it affected the communications equipment on board the plane, which...
[49:53.580 --> 49:54.700]  No, no, no.
[49:54.760 --> 49:56.140]  Well, he was using his own cell phone?
[49:56.240 --> 49:58.260]  Was he using his own cell phone, or was he using the airplane phone?
[49:58.480 --> 49:59.500]  His own cell phone.
[49:59.520 --> 49:59.740]  Okay.
[49:59.820 --> 50:02.800]  Well, I mean, that in itself is not supposed to be legal.
[50:03.340 --> 50:04.020]  Yeah, but...
[50:04.020 --> 50:06.280]  But they busted him for the conversation he was having.
[50:06.820 --> 50:07.180]  Exactly.
[50:07.600 --> 50:08.220]  That's very weird.
[50:21.900 --> 50:22.720]  I don't know.
[50:23.060 --> 50:24.860]  I don't want to ask about it, but he was joking.
[50:25.700 --> 50:28.040]  I know him, you know, not too well, but...
[50:28.040 --> 50:39.180]  Well, you know, people, it sounds obvious to say, boy, people shouldn't joke about things like that, but I got to tell you, you know, so many people that I travel with make the dumbest remarks sometimes, you know, when you're with them.
[50:39.280 --> 50:41.080]  And lots of times, it's completely innocent.
[50:41.240 --> 50:45.860]  I was with a friend of mine once, and we were just taking off, and I'm always a nervous wreck when I'm on an airplane anyway.
[50:46.340 --> 50:50.720]  But, you know, he just points out to me, taps me on the shoulder, and says, you know, if the plane's going to crash, it's probably going to be about now.
[50:51.120 --> 50:53.360]  It's like, why do you tell me something like that?
[50:53.420 --> 50:55.060]  And God forbid somebody else overhears that.
[50:56.040 --> 50:56.680]  It's strange.
[50:56.860 --> 51:00.820]  I can't maybe only pay more attention to anyone with Arab descent or Muslim.
[51:00.980 --> 51:01.500]  I don't know.
[51:02.020 --> 51:03.080]  It's very strange.
[51:03.220 --> 51:04.560]  But I know he's gone.
[51:04.900 --> 51:06.420]  So, you know, you've got to ask out.
[51:06.980 --> 51:08.640]  Yeah, you have to be extra careful, I know.
[51:08.700 --> 51:09.280]  Extra careful.
[51:09.940 --> 51:11.520]  Okay, Manuel, nice talking to you.
[51:11.620 --> 51:11.860]  You too.
[51:12.420 --> 51:14.200]  All right, one day we'll do that transaction, I'm sure.
[51:14.360 --> 51:20.860]  One would think if he was going to hijack the plane, then picking him up at the airport would have, you know, it would have been too late by then.
[51:21.340 --> 51:22.120]  Yeah, that's true.
[51:22.240 --> 51:22.800]  It was a joke.
[51:23.180 --> 51:24.840]  It wasn't a very good joke, but it was a joke.
[51:25.000 --> 51:32.160]  Right, right, but I'm saying that he would have hijacked the plane, and then he would have hijacked the plane, so waiting for him at the airport wouldn't have been, you know, the brightest of moods.
[51:32.200 --> 51:33.160]  Oh, yeah, no, that's true.
[51:33.420 --> 51:37.720]  Well, the FBI was thinking maybe he's commuting to his airplane hijacking job.
[51:37.880 --> 51:41.680]  No, I think they busted him just for saying it, not for actually doing it or trying to do it.
[51:41.720 --> 51:44.100]  Now, do cell phones even operate up there at this point?
[51:44.200 --> 51:45.120]  Bernie, you know the answer to that.
[51:45.960 --> 51:46.620]  What's the question?
[51:46.620 --> 51:49.100]  If cell phones operate up in the stratosphere.
[51:49.460 --> 51:51.520]  They do, but the problem is they work too well.
[51:51.600 --> 51:51.760]  Yeah.
[51:52.060 --> 51:53.980]  Because it's line of sight.
[51:54.120 --> 52:00.740]  When you have line of sight to the receiving antenna, like to the cell site, it works amazingly well.
[52:00.980 --> 52:07.580]  I mean, we can pick up, you know, XM car radios can pick up a satellite that's 22,000 miles up in space.
[52:07.920 --> 52:09.500]  But the problem is...
[52:09.500 --> 52:11.600]  Your phone isn't going to be able to transmit that distance, though.
[52:11.600 --> 52:17.240]  It actually can, because even though it's a few hundred milliwatts, it can still go many, many miles.
[52:18.940 --> 52:29.260]  So the problem is that the signal from the cell phone is going to hit cell sites, multiple cell sites at the same time, in different cellular systems.
[52:29.500 --> 52:41.580]  So it kind of wreaks havoc with the cellular system, which is really designed for, like, terrestrial, like, ground-based phones, where the system can tell, okay, your phone is here because the signal strength is closest to this.
[52:42.180 --> 52:48.720]  But if you're basically equidistant to dozens or hundreds of antennas, it really can wreak havoc.
[52:48.860 --> 52:54.980]  And you could actually be making the same call through several mobile telephone switching offices simultaneously.
[52:55.360 --> 52:56.640]  It really can be a problem.
[52:56.780 --> 52:59.340]  That was really the FCC's biggest concern initially.
[52:59.520 --> 53:02.080]  But wasn't the FCC that outlawed it, was it?
[53:02.080 --> 53:02.940]  It was the FAA.
[53:03.340 --> 53:10.340]  It was the FAA, but the FCC got involved initially because they said this is really going to wreak havoc with cellular systems.
[53:10.340 --> 53:12.860]  Now, has anybody actually made a phone call that way?
[53:12.880 --> 53:13.980]  I'm just curious what happens.
[53:14.520 --> 53:15.760]  On 9-11, they did.
[53:16.680 --> 53:17.420]  Well, that's true.
[53:17.480 --> 53:18.180]  They did on 9-11.
[53:18.340 --> 53:19.720]  And those calls seem to go through pretty well.
[53:19.820 --> 53:21.880]  Yeah, but all kind of chaos ensued afterwards.
[53:22.040 --> 53:23.740]  Yeah, well, I don't think they were linked.
[53:23.780 --> 53:24.720]  Because of the phone calls.
[53:24.860 --> 53:27.800]  But, I mean, do people do this on a regular basis?
[53:29.920 --> 53:31.200]  You know, experiment with it.
[53:31.600 --> 53:34.180]  I'm not saying people should because they'll get in trouble if they try.
[53:34.180 --> 53:40.940]  In order to satisfy the requirement to link someone's cell phone call to their seat, one would think you wouldn't be able to do it via the towers, obviously.
[53:41.100 --> 53:54.080]  You'd have to do it based on, you know, taking the database of cell phone ID numbers and then taking the database of who's flying in what seat and meshing them together and doing all this cross-referencing stuff that people are going to start using a lot more,
[53:54.180 --> 53:54.340]  I think.
[53:54.340 --> 53:57.380]  Yeah, but then the guy next to you says, you know, my battery's low, can I use your SIM card?
[53:57.440 --> 53:58.720]  Or can I put my SIM card in your phone?
[53:58.780 --> 54:00.240]  And then everything, all bets are off.
[54:00.420 --> 54:01.640]  Well, the SIM card would still be true.
[54:02.240 --> 54:03.000]  But it would be at once...
[54:03.000 --> 54:05.940]  If they used their SIM card in your phone, it would be the SIM card's ID.
[54:06.100 --> 54:06.560]  That's true.
[54:06.680 --> 54:06.980]  You're right.
[54:07.080 --> 54:07.580]  You're right.
[54:07.840 --> 54:14.100]  For the FBI to know who's going to be what the seat assignment is, they would...
[54:14.100 --> 54:15.420]  You can still move seats.
[54:15.560 --> 54:17.060]  You know, I move seats all the time on planes.
[54:17.060 --> 54:30.700]  But assuming you stay to your seat, the FBI would have to force the people who screen you when you get on the plane to register your cell phone, like get the electronic serial number out of your cell phone, like the number that's under the label, under the battery kind of stuff.
[54:30.900 --> 54:32.720]  It's just really... this is really impractical.
[54:32.840 --> 54:41.880]  So I don't see cell phones coming to airplanes anytime soon, thankfully, just because the FBI wants to be able to monitor and wiretap and know where you're sitting and all that other crazy stuff.
[54:41.880 --> 54:52.280]  And, you know, to me, that's sort of a mixed blessing because I don't really care for having people having all kinds of cell phone conversations all around me where I can't turn them off or go to a safe or reclusive area.
[54:52.920 --> 54:55.340]  But the thing is, there's probably a push for this anyway.
[54:55.340 --> 55:01.860]  And if it's bound to happen, this is just going to make it happen with more invasions of, you know, them knowing more about you.
[55:02.040 --> 55:02.660]  So it's...
[55:02.660 --> 55:03.040]  Yeah.
[55:03.500 --> 55:04.160]  Half and half.
[55:04.740 --> 55:05.540]  Let's take another phone call.
[55:05.660 --> 55:06.760]  212-209-2900.
[55:06.900 --> 55:07.820]  Actually, we're almost out of time.
[55:07.840 --> 55:09.080]  So let's speed through these.
[55:09.160 --> 55:09.420]  Good evening.
[55:09.520 --> 55:09.720]  You're on.
[55:09.940 --> 55:10.300]  Okay.
[55:10.380 --> 55:11.040]  That was an easy one.
[55:11.040 --> 55:11.940]  Let's try over here.
[55:12.220 --> 55:12.520]  Good evening.
[55:12.620 --> 55:12.940]  You're on.
[55:14.240 --> 55:14.780]  Go ahead.
[55:15.740 --> 55:15.940]  Hi.
[55:16.020 --> 55:19.240]  I was calling to tell Emmanuel about Fox 6 News Milwaukee.
[55:19.260 --> 55:22.020]  Got a little story about some supposed hackers.
[55:22.880 --> 55:23.240]  Okay.
[55:23.920 --> 55:25.880]  Well, you're on the air, so go ahead and tell us.
[55:26.060 --> 55:26.800]  Oh, well, there we go.
[55:27.380 --> 55:30.160]  Yeah, on the news, they had this big thing they showed like three times.
[55:30.280 --> 55:31.860]  They kept, you know, repeating hacker, of course.
[55:32.340 --> 55:38.220]  And it was just about the old ways of how they're getting smarter and smarter on phishing people, you know, and stealing the accounts.
[55:39.160 --> 55:39.680]  Uh-huh.
[55:39.680 --> 55:49.660]  And it was just funny because they were showing like this guy that, you know, basically went to a spoof site and filled out all the information and everything and lost like thousands.
[55:50.740 --> 55:50.960]  Really?
[55:51.300 --> 55:52.860]  You know, and I mean...
[55:52.860 --> 55:55.100]  So it was basically a piece that didn't really tell you anything, right?
[55:55.440 --> 55:56.040]  Pretty much.
[55:56.240 --> 56:01.580]  All that I really got out of there was that malicious hackers were getting lots of money.
[56:01.940 --> 56:02.220]  Mm-hmm.
[56:02.440 --> 56:07.600]  Now, corporate America cowers in fear and tries to send banking records through UPS.
[56:08.020 --> 56:09.960]  I actually had one more question for you.
[56:10.400 --> 56:12.500]  I'd made a donation when you guys had your show.
[56:12.700 --> 56:16.080]  Is there any time I can expect on getting a shirt or anything?
[56:16.140 --> 56:17.120]  Which marathon?
[56:17.320 --> 56:18.460]  Is it this one that just ended?
[56:19.240 --> 56:19.900]  Uh, no.
[56:20.100 --> 56:22.640]  Yeah, it was the last one, the two-hour episode you had?
[56:23.120 --> 56:25.240]  Uh, that was about three weeks ago, four weeks ago?
[56:25.280 --> 56:25.460]  Yeah.
[56:25.800 --> 56:28.320]  Figure within the next month, I would say you'll get something.
[56:28.400 --> 56:28.800]  Next month?
[56:28.940 --> 56:29.060]  Yeah.
[56:29.060 --> 56:29.440]  All right, cool.
[56:29.480 --> 56:31.020]  I would hope anyway, but you should.
[56:31.020 --> 56:31.920]  One more quick question.
[56:32.020 --> 56:34.340]  Are you going to DEFCON 13?
[56:34.700 --> 56:37.280]  No, I'll be at What the Hack, which takes place in Holland.
[56:37.980 --> 56:38.560]  Oh, yeah.
[56:38.640 --> 56:39.760]  I wish I could make it to that one.
[56:39.860 --> 56:50.700]  It's well worth severing whatever relationships you might have, ending any employment opportunities, and, uh, abandoning the military, if you're in that, you know, just to make it over to this thing.
[56:50.960 --> 56:55.080]  I think any of the military would be a great idea to do, to go there and go to What the Hack.
[56:55.300 --> 56:55.560]  Yeah.
[56:56.020 --> 56:56.280]  All right.
[56:56.320 --> 56:57.460]  Oh, I'll just think about it.
[56:57.500 --> 56:58.880]  Maybe I'll quit my job and see you there.
[56:59.060 --> 56:59.380]  All right.
[56:59.440 --> 56:59.960]  Something to consider.
[57:00.080 --> 57:01.080]  Thanks, uh, for your call.
[57:01.560 --> 57:05.780]  If just one person would quit their job every day and go to What the Hack, I think that would make a statement.
[57:06.520 --> 57:06.980]  You know?
[57:07.840 --> 57:10.300]  I'm not quite sure what the statement is, but it definitely would be a statement.
[57:10.600 --> 57:10.960]  Good evening.
[57:11.100 --> 57:11.300]  You're on.
[57:12.700 --> 57:12.960]  Hello?
[57:12.960 --> 57:13.480]  Go ahead.
[57:13.580 --> 57:13.800]  You're on.
[57:14.860 --> 57:15.320]  Oh, yeah.
[57:15.540 --> 57:22.840]  I heard you talking about, uh, a law that would allow people to sue for a loss of ID.
[57:23.260 --> 57:25.000]  Definitely want to turn your radio down a little bit.
[57:25.380 --> 57:25.860]  Okay.
[57:26.040 --> 57:26.280]  Okay.
[57:27.960 --> 57:28.580]  All right.
[57:28.840 --> 57:29.520]  A law of what?
[57:29.960 --> 57:39.920]  A law that would allow people to sue any, um, post office, uh, service, or which will have lost their ID.
[57:40.240 --> 57:42.660]  Well, we'd like a law like that, but there isn't one.
[57:42.660 --> 57:45.440]  And at present, we were sort of dreaming about that.
[57:45.820 --> 57:47.980]  Oh, you are dreaming about it.
[57:48.120 --> 57:49.200]  That was a dream, wasn't it, Bernie?
[57:50.120 --> 57:51.200]  Yes, it was a good dream.
[57:51.340 --> 57:51.840]  It was a good dream.
[57:51.900 --> 57:52.500]  One of the good dreams.
[57:52.620 --> 57:57.920]  But hopefully someday, these companies will be held accountable when they lose their customers' private information.
[57:58.200 --> 57:59.020]  It's only fair.
[57:59.860 --> 58:00.180]  Okay.
[58:00.180 --> 58:06.260]  Because I'm, right now, in such a situation, I've just lost my passport.
[58:06.260 --> 58:12.280]  I mean, I'm not from this country, and I'm an immigrant, and I just worry so much.
[58:12.420 --> 58:18.120]  And there's nothing I can do because, I mean, one lawyer is telling me to get into, uh,
[58:29.620 --> 58:36.920]  how do you grab that passport and go sell it to somebody who is going to, uh, perform any terrorism activity.
[58:37.140 --> 58:37.400]  Yeah.
[58:37.560 --> 58:41.160]  I don't know what's going to happen to me, and I just worry.
[58:41.400 --> 58:43.880]  It's definitely something you should keep a close eye on.
[58:43.960 --> 58:46.300]  Get, uh, get some kind of an attorney to help out with that.
[58:46.300 --> 58:56.440]  I would, I would think at the minimum, you should, uh, contact the local police wherever you live, and, uh, then your, your consulate or, or ambassador, because they probably would know the best about it.
[58:56.540 --> 58:56.700]  Yeah.
[58:56.780 --> 59:00.960]  Unfortunately, we have to leave it there because we're out of time, but, uh, thanks for your call, and thanks to everybody else who called in.
[59:01.120 --> 59:12.700]  This reminder this weekend, uh, is going to be, uh, something called Carolina Con over in, uh, North Carolina, uh, being held at, uh, the Ameri, uh, AmeriSuite, that's it, AmeriSuite Hotel in Raleigh, North Carolina.
[59:12.700 --> 59:17.480]  It's a gathering of hackers, um, and it takes place from June 10th through 12th.
[59:17.680 --> 59:19.040]  All kinds of different speakers.
[59:19.260 --> 59:24.860]  Find out more information, www.CarolinaCon.org, spelled exactly the way it sounds.
[59:25.940 --> 59:27.700]  We'll, uh, see you next week.
[59:27.860 --> 59:29.080]  Stay tuned for the Personal Computer Show.
[59:29.280 --> 59:29.820]  Have a good night.
[59:44.100 --> 59:58.320]  Well, I was waiting for your phone call, the one that never come, like a man about to the bus, I was dying first.
[01:00:13.430 --> 01:00:20.150]  Though I will disappear, join the street parade,
[01:00:32.660 --> 01:00:35.480]  in these flying times.
[01:00:35.980 --> 01:00:42.800]  I'll take my broken heart, take it home in parts.
[01:00:42.800 --> 01:00:49.800]  But I will never fade, I'll get lost in the days.
[01:00:49.800 --> 01:00:56.720]  If I will disappear, join the street parade,
[01:01:05.260 --> 01:01:11.560]  I was in this place, the first church off to sing.
[01:01:12.420 --> 01:01:22.200]  I saw the tears on the face, the face of a vision, and now I will disappear.
[01:01:22.200 --> 01:01:22.560]  Weau!