[00:00.720 --> 00:03.500]  You've been listening to Free Speech Radio News.
[00:03.500 --> 00:10.420]  Our newscast is produced at Pacifica Station's WBAI in New York, KPFA in Berkeley, and KPFK in Los Angeles.
[00:10.780 --> 00:14.280]  The newscast is produced by Monica Lopez and Simba Russo.
[00:14.460 --> 00:16.600]  Our headlines editor is Leanne Caldwell.
[00:16.760 --> 00:18.560]  Mitch Jezerich is our Washington editor.
[00:18.880 --> 00:24.480]  Our technical production team is Jade Padgett-Seekins, Pauline Bartolone, McMillan, and Eric Klein.
[00:24.800 --> 00:27.420]  In Los Angeles, I'm Aura Bogado.
[00:30.000 --> 00:34.260]  You're listening to 99.5 FM WBAI New York.
[00:34.720 --> 00:37.540]  It's 7pm, time for Off the Hook.
[01:14.680 --> 01:15.940]  And a very good evening to everybody.
[01:16.020 --> 01:18.060]  The program is... well, where'd the theme go?
[01:18.540 --> 01:19.820]  You should keep the theme up a little bit.
[01:19.920 --> 01:20.420]  There we are.
[01:20.470 --> 01:20.820]  That's better.
[01:21.360 --> 01:29.900]  RedHack is engineering tonight again, and will be for the next... well, except for the week when you're in Europe, you're going to be engineering for a little bit.
[01:30.420 --> 01:31.860]  But the program is Off the Hook.
[01:32.000 --> 01:36.140]  Emmanuel Goldstein here with you, and a bunch of other people in the studio here.
[01:36.420 --> 01:37.860]  Jim is all the way over there.
[01:38.780 --> 01:40.120]  Is everybody's microphone on?
[01:40.200 --> 01:40.360]  Okay.
[01:40.880 --> 01:42.780]  And we got Mike, we have Redbird.
[01:43.180 --> 01:43.540]  Good evening.
[01:43.760 --> 01:45.540]  And we have Walter and Bernie S.
[01:45.700 --> 01:49.440]  down there in Philadelphia, whose microphone is definitely not on.
[01:49.900 --> 01:51.060]  All right, try again, Bernie.
[01:51.780 --> 01:52.940]  Good evening to all.
[01:53.480 --> 01:59.140]  Well, it's been an eventful week, and I guess we have a few programming notes to make as well.
[01:59.900 --> 02:06.040]  So we'll get into news, we'll get into developments, we'll get into phone calls, and planning for the weeks ahead.
[02:07.060 --> 02:13.620]  Okay, as of next week, actually, as of this moment right now, there's a boat on its way to New York City.
[02:13.860 --> 02:19.860]  It's called the QM2, and that's the boat I'm going to be on next week at this time, heading in the other direction, towards England.
[02:21.180 --> 02:25.840]  I don't think I'm going to fit in with these people at all, but it's something that you have to try at least once in your life.
[02:26.960 --> 02:32.200]  So I'll be doing the show from the middle of the Atlantic Ocean next week, and...
[02:32.200 --> 02:33.260]  Now, how will you do that?
[02:33.350 --> 02:33.940]  How will I do that?
[02:33.960 --> 02:34.640]  I'm glad you asked.
[02:34.660 --> 02:38.540]  I have this device right here, which I was able to obtain.
[02:38.540 --> 02:39.070]  A carrying case.
[02:39.340 --> 02:42.320]  It's a carrying case, but inside the carrying case...
[02:42.320 --> 02:43.740]  Even over the radio, you can hear...
[02:43.740 --> 02:44.460]  What does that label say?
[02:45.440 --> 02:49.240]  It's basically a personal satellite network.
[02:49.240 --> 02:51.360]  Well, that's what the name of the company is that I got this from.
[02:51.820 --> 02:52.860]  It's a satellite phone.
[02:53.180 --> 02:54.300]  That's a big sucker.
[02:54.540 --> 02:55.100]  It's big.
[02:55.260 --> 02:56.260]  It is pretty big.
[02:56.320 --> 02:57.320]  I'm going to turn it on right now, actually.
[02:57.320 --> 02:59.440]  It looks like a stapler at first, a large stapler.
[03:00.660 --> 03:03.060]  Can you hear the antenna clicking over the air?
[03:03.180 --> 03:05.320]  You can't really hear the clicking, but I can tell you this.
[03:05.340 --> 03:12.060]  You won't get any reception in here, because you need to be in sight of a satellite, and we aren't inside this little control room here.
[03:12.460 --> 03:13.440]  So it says searching.
[03:13.440 --> 03:19.240]  When you're standing outside, anywhere, it'll say registering, and then once you're registered, your phone number will be recognized.
[03:19.400 --> 03:19.980]  I tested it out.
[03:20.040 --> 03:22.060]  I called my cell phone on it, and the number showed up.
[03:22.140 --> 03:24.800]  I was able to make it ring and all that kind of thing.
[03:25.480 --> 03:29.440]  Now, this will work anywhere in the world, pretty much, as long as you're not indoors.
[03:30.910 --> 03:32.280]  And what does it cost?
[03:33.180 --> 03:35.340]  I wouldn't want to give out price information on the air.
[03:35.940 --> 03:37.240]  That's below us, Jim.
[03:37.880 --> 03:39.420]  Well, how about a rough idea?
[03:39.540 --> 03:40.400]  It's expensive, all right?
[03:40.400 --> 03:41.160]  About how much a minute?
[03:42.220 --> 03:44.660]  Well, we can get it around 99 cents a minute.
[03:45.460 --> 03:48.400]  That's not tremendously awful if you have no other alternative.
[03:48.580 --> 03:51.220]  And actually, incoming calls don't cost anything.
[03:51.420 --> 03:51.960]  Oh, that's good.
[03:52.040 --> 03:52.240]  Yeah.
[03:52.400 --> 03:55.520]  And that's also true of many GSM carriers.
[03:55.740 --> 03:57.420]  Well, they cost the person calling you a lot.
[03:57.420 --> 03:58.060]  Well, that's my point.
[03:58.240 --> 04:04.720]  The person calling you foots the bill, but you can just sit there and talk on the phone, and it won't cost you anything.
[04:04.980 --> 04:20.680]  But in actuality, when we make the phone call next week to this thing, it'd probably be more expensive for you to call me using any service that we can subscribe to than for me to call you at the 99-cent-a-minute rate or whatever rate we wound up getting for that.
[04:22.170 --> 04:23.680]  So that's probably how we're going to do it.
[04:23.760 --> 04:25.030]  I'll probably be calling in instead.
[04:26.060 --> 04:26.200]  Right.
[04:26.200 --> 04:29.030]  And you can receive SMS messages for free, too, can't you?
[04:29.380 --> 04:29.620]  Mm-hmm.
[04:30.020 --> 04:31.020]  Yes, you can receive SMS.
[04:31.150 --> 04:32.640]  We haven't quite figured out how to do it yet.
[04:33.440 --> 04:35.700]  But this thing can receive SMS messages.
[04:35.820 --> 04:38.830]  Now, that's just one way that we have devised to make phone calls.
[04:39.920 --> 04:46.500]  We've set up another rather intricate method of using more standard GSM technology.
[04:46.820 --> 04:48.820]  Mike, would you like to try and explain this?
[04:49.540 --> 04:50.200]  I'll try.
[04:50.330 --> 04:51.820]  And how many companies are we dealing with here?
[04:52.420 --> 04:52.820]  Three.
[04:53.040 --> 04:53.830]  Three companies.
[04:53.960 --> 04:55.100]  Three companies for one phone.
[04:55.100 --> 04:57.460]  But it might actually go down to two companies.
[04:57.740 --> 04:57.900]  Really?
[04:58.020 --> 04:58.640]  Which will be a real...
[04:58.640 --> 04:59.480]  Going to eliminate a company.
[04:59.620 --> 04:59.760]  Okay.
[04:59.940 --> 05:00.460]  I like the sound of that.
[05:00.460 --> 05:01.980]  Well, there's actually another company.
[05:02.150 --> 05:02.740]  I'm not counting.
[05:03.020 --> 05:04.300]  So, you know, there's many companies.
[05:04.300 --> 05:05.500]  So it might be four right now.
[05:06.220 --> 05:06.860]  Well, anyway...
[05:06.860 --> 05:07.640]  Tell us what we're trying to do.
[05:07.800 --> 05:08.380]  One of the...
[05:08.380 --> 05:12.420]  The most interesting company, perhaps, is someone called Ring with three I's.
[05:12.650 --> 05:14.140]  R-I-I-I-N-G.
[05:14.880 --> 05:15.520]  And they are...
[05:15.520 --> 05:15.860]  That's only two.
[05:16.200 --> 05:16.940]  Yeah, it's only two I's.
[05:17.020 --> 05:17.800]  Well, there's three of them.
[05:17.960 --> 05:18.920]  Pretend I had said three.
[05:19.000 --> 05:20.040]  R-I-I-I-N-G.
[05:20.240 --> 05:20.560]  Yeah, them.
[05:20.620 --> 05:20.770]  Okay.
[05:21.320 --> 05:24.700]  And they're in Lichtenstein, which is a very small country.
[05:24.860 --> 05:27.240]  Finally, a Lichtenstein connection on this radio show.
[05:27.320 --> 05:31.620]  You know, for so long, I've wanted to talk about Lichtenstein, and it just never has come up.
[05:31.720 --> 05:33.540]  There's never been a reason to talk about Lichtenstein.
[05:33.720 --> 05:35.900]  They only have about 20 people that live in the country.
[05:35.900 --> 05:36.740]  It's very tiny.
[05:36.880 --> 05:38.640]  It's about as big as the radio station here.
[05:38.840 --> 05:39.900]  But now...
[05:39.900 --> 05:42.000]  They have five phone companies, though.
[05:42.160 --> 05:42.940]  They have two I's.
[05:43.160 --> 05:46.280]  How could they have five phone companies?
[05:46.600 --> 05:47.740]  No, Lichtenstein has two I's.
[05:48.180 --> 05:49.320]  Let's not discuss that.
[05:49.420 --> 05:50.100]  It's too controversial.
[05:50.100 --> 05:52.540]  But tell us something about why they have five phone companies.
[05:52.700 --> 05:54.720]  Well, because they're weird.
[05:54.960 --> 06:00.920]  But one of the phone companies is a reseller, and they sell this thing called Ring with all the I's.
[06:02.360 --> 06:11.080]  And this is an international SIM card that you can put into a GSM phone, and you'll have a Lichtenstein mobile number.
[06:11.080 --> 06:26.420]  But the interesting thing about it is, unlike most roaming plans, throughout all of Western Europe and many other countries in the world, you pay nothing to receive calls, which is highly unusual.
[06:26.420 --> 06:30.480]  I know with my phone, it costs $1.29 a minute to receive calls.
[06:30.480 --> 06:32.060]  Well, it's not unusual if you're over there.
[06:32.260 --> 06:32.480]  Right.
[06:32.620 --> 06:36.560]  If you're in, say, Holland or Germany, and you have a GSM phone, you don't pay for incoming calls.
[06:37.140 --> 06:38.340]  When you're in your own country.
[06:38.460 --> 06:44.840]  But when you're in the country next door, which isn't very far in, say, Holland, then you start to have to pay.
[06:44.840 --> 06:45.520]  Okay.
[06:45.620 --> 06:51.320]  So you're saying the Lichtenstein method of doing this does not carry any incoming charges at all?
[06:51.930 --> 06:53.880]  In these, like, 60 countries.
[06:54.340 --> 06:58.020]  If you're in the United States, it costs money because everything costs money here.
[06:58.080 --> 07:06.080]  And I've noticed that of the countries I'm going to, virtually every single one, including such countries as Belarus, Russia, China, Mongolia, they're covered.
[07:06.260 --> 07:10.200]  And if I get a phone call on this thing, I don't have to pay any incoming calls.
[07:10.820 --> 07:11.420]  That's true.
[07:11.680 --> 07:14.300]  But the person calling, what do they have to...
[07:14.300 --> 07:19.560]  They have to pay the rate to Lichtenstein Mobile, which is expensive.
[07:21.620 --> 07:32.580]  We, this calling, this toll-free number that we've talked about on the air many times, which has many excellent rates to most of the world, wanted something like 90 cents a minute to call Lichtenstein Mobile.
[07:33.620 --> 07:35.440]  And we didn't really want to pay that.
[07:35.520 --> 07:38.880]  And normally to call something like Holland, it's like, what, a quarter maybe?
[07:39.100 --> 07:39.980]  I think it's less than that.
[07:40.120 --> 07:41.640]  I think it's something like nine cents a minute.
[07:41.640 --> 07:46.180]  A Holland Landline is about that, but a Holland Mobile is about a quarter.
[07:46.340 --> 07:50.000]  Just to give you an idea that it costs a lot more to call mobile phones using these plans.
[07:50.200 --> 07:50.380]  Right.
[07:51.640 --> 07:53.320]  So we said we don't want to pay this.
[07:53.320 --> 07:57.920]  So we're setting up a system with VoIP, voice over internet.
[07:58.400 --> 08:04.260]  And so we have a phone number that we can call, and it goes to an asterisk server.
[08:04.400 --> 08:08.400]  Asterisk is a software PBX that we have set up.
[08:08.740 --> 08:14.500]  And it will play you a very silly message and then dial the Lichtenstein number.
[08:14.500 --> 08:21.160]  And the rates for some of these VoIP services for outgoing calls are very low.
[08:21.400 --> 08:25.940]  They're between 11 and 18 cents or 22 cents.
[08:26.060 --> 08:31.860]  Some amount, which is much smaller than 90 cents per minute to Lichtenstein Mobiles.
[08:33.600 --> 08:34.000]  Okay.
[08:34.340 --> 08:35.930]  So how many companies is that so far?
[08:36.460 --> 08:41.480]  Well, there's a company to... because we need to call the asterisk server.
[08:41.760 --> 08:45.480]  So we need to get a phone number that rings on the internet.
[08:45.480 --> 08:46.600]  And that's one company.
[08:46.780 --> 08:46.980]  Okay.
[08:47.260 --> 08:48.720]  And then we make the outgoing call.
[08:48.820 --> 08:51.460]  And that could be the same company or a different company.
[08:51.460 --> 08:53.930]  So that's the second company.
[08:54.120 --> 08:54.380]  Okay.
[08:54.420 --> 08:55.920]  And then we have to call the Lichtenstein company.
[08:56.050 --> 08:56.220]  Right.
[08:56.290 --> 08:59.080]  Which is actually a reseller for the Lichtenstein SIM.
[08:59.080 --> 09:03.020]  And then, of course, there's the company that you're actually roaming on.
[09:03.140 --> 09:04.840]  You know, the local mobile operator.
[09:05.280 --> 09:05.500]  Right.
[09:05.790 --> 09:06.600]  So there's...
[09:06.600 --> 09:07.280]  That's five now.
[09:07.320 --> 09:07.980]  Five companies.
[09:08.480 --> 09:08.980]  Oh, boy.
[09:09.100 --> 09:11.240]  So there's many points where this could fail.
[09:11.420 --> 09:13.520]  And we won't even talk about all the companies.
[09:13.980 --> 09:18.340]  The reseller for the SIM, that's a company you already are done dealing with them.
[09:19.080 --> 09:20.580]  I'm not sure if I'm done dealing with them.
[09:20.640 --> 09:22.660]  I don't know if I like this phone that they sent me.
[09:22.790 --> 09:25.760]  I have a new phone now because my other phone was locked.
[09:25.760 --> 09:27.480]  This phone is unlocked, so it'll work anywhere.
[09:28.260 --> 09:31.740]  It's made by a company called Haier, H-A-I-E-R.
[09:32.120 --> 09:34.050]  And I knew I was in trouble when I turned it on.
[09:34.200 --> 09:37.020]  And instead of welcoming me to T-Mobile, it welcomed me to VoiceStream.
[09:37.700 --> 09:39.780]  So this apparently is an old phone.
[09:40.050 --> 09:45.880]  I don't know if it's possible to even use T-Zones, which is a T-Mobile thing, on a phone that doesn't even know what T-Mobile is.
[09:47.080 --> 09:49.080]  But the good news is it's unlocked.
[09:49.220 --> 09:50.500]  I can get phone calls on it.
[09:50.520 --> 09:51.760]  So I guess that's really all I need.
[09:51.880 --> 09:55.320]  You wanted a phone that was different from all the other phones that people have.
[09:55.320 --> 09:57.640]  You didn't realize that other people have phones that work.
[09:57.820 --> 09:58.620]  Well, it works.
[09:58.720 --> 09:59.050]  It works.
[09:59.120 --> 10:01.960]  It's just, you know, I don't know if it does all the things I want to do.
[10:02.160 --> 10:04.920]  But then again, I don't think I'm going to be using T-Zones overseas.
[10:05.290 --> 10:07.720]  I don't really think that's going to enter into it.
[10:08.820 --> 10:09.430]  So, okay.
[10:09.540 --> 10:12.100]  So does this cover the entire process?
[10:12.200 --> 10:13.620]  I mean, we did some testing on this.
[10:13.960 --> 10:14.320]  Yes.
[10:14.430 --> 10:16.790]  And you called me, and you really sounded like you were underwater.
[10:17.100 --> 10:17.260]  Yes.
[10:17.260 --> 10:17.550]  You really did.
[10:18.080 --> 10:19.520]  So I'm a little worried about this.
[10:19.820 --> 10:21.740]  We think we can solve that problem, though.
[10:21.860 --> 10:22.170]  We do.
[10:22.170 --> 10:22.500]  Okay.
[10:22.820 --> 10:24.820]  The phone or the VoIP made him sound underwater?
[10:25.000 --> 10:25.400]  I don't know.
[10:25.520 --> 10:26.290]  He just sounded...
[10:26.290 --> 10:27.040]  It was really funny.
[10:27.200 --> 10:28.320]  You went through all of the services?
[10:28.320 --> 10:28.820]  No, no, no.
[10:29.280 --> 10:30.500]  Only two of the services.
[10:31.530 --> 10:34.670]  We didn't even try any of the Lichtenstein companies yet.
[10:34.820 --> 10:36.050]  This was just calling a landline.
[10:36.140 --> 10:37.640]  The good news is that there was no delay.
[10:38.000 --> 10:40.860]  I mean, you know, I couldn't understand anything he was saying, but there was no delay.
[10:41.580 --> 10:43.930]  Well, you know, it's very important to be misunderstood quickly.
[10:44.160 --> 10:45.100]  It's the American way.
[10:45.100 --> 10:46.050]  Exactly, exactly.
[10:46.980 --> 10:48.600]  So, okay, that's some of the challenges.
[10:48.620 --> 10:50.860]  So some weeks we'll be coming to you on the satellite phone.
[10:50.980 --> 10:54.320]  Some weeks we'll be coming to you on a Lichtenstein SIM.
[10:54.550 --> 10:57.780]  Are we going to be using the DECT phones at what the heck and all?
[10:57.940 --> 11:01.040]  Well, you know, we used those at the CCC camp a couple of years ago.
[11:01.100 --> 11:04.980]  And as you recall, there was a bit of a misadventure because we experimented with three-way calling.
[11:04.980 --> 11:11.820]  And I talked merrily on for about 15 minutes, not realizing I had been disconnected because it disconnects silently on three-way.
[11:12.680 --> 11:13.540]  So I don't know.
[11:13.840 --> 11:14.240]  Maybe.
[11:14.800 --> 11:15.200]  Maybe.
[11:15.340 --> 11:15.660]  We'll see.
[11:17.740 --> 11:19.940]  Okay, so that's programming note number one.
[11:20.040 --> 11:23.320]  Programming note number two, and this is very important for our listeners.
[11:23.320 --> 11:27.560]  And I especially like to direct this to some of the newer podcast listeners.
[11:27.560 --> 11:29.820]  Yes, we have many of you out there.
[11:29.820 --> 11:30.480]  We know about you.
[11:30.880 --> 11:37.020]  I would like to direct the comment that you're about to make to those listeners who automatically download the show from an RSS feed.
[11:37.380 --> 11:38.620]  Okay, if you want to say it that way.
[11:38.700 --> 11:41.520]  That does come out much clearer and quicker.
[11:42.200 --> 11:42.600]  Yes.
[11:42.720 --> 11:43.980]  All right, we'll just call it that from now on.
[11:44.840 --> 11:54.620]  Those of you who listen to the show over the Internet may not know that this is something that's broadcast over the radio, over the FM airwaves here in New York City.
[11:54.820 --> 11:55.800]  Yes, it's true.
[11:55.800 --> 11:56.980]  We're not just on the Internet.
[11:57.540 --> 12:09.260]  And I think that's significant because, well, that's how you reach people to this day who are just tuning the radio dial, listening, people who don't have the technological sophistication that we have to use five phone companies to make a single phone call.
[12:09.780 --> 12:10.980]  You know, things like that.
[12:10.980 --> 12:17.160]  That a lot of people are just simply going on with their daily routine and they turn on the radio and they hear something interesting.
[12:17.360 --> 12:19.040]  It's important that we stay on the radio.
[12:19.240 --> 12:29.060]  It's important that this particular way of reaching people not be transplanted solely to technological ways like the Internet.
[12:29.380 --> 12:32.320]  So what that means is we have to fund this.
[12:32.400 --> 12:33.500]  We have to keep this going.
[12:33.760 --> 12:35.640]  This radio station is our lifeblood.
[12:35.640 --> 12:39.740]  It's what keeps us broadcasting this program week after week, year after year.
[12:41.040 --> 12:48.560]  So next week and the week after, we have what is known in the halls here as an emergency fundraiser.
[12:48.700 --> 12:51.760]  The reason it's an emergency is because we didn't reach our goal for the last one.
[12:51.940 --> 12:52.520]  The radio...
[12:52.520 --> 12:55.460]  This radio program in itself did quite well, actually.
[12:56.640 --> 12:59.280]  But the station as a whole needs more help.
[12:59.440 --> 13:04.000]  And that's why we need to ask for support starting next week.
[13:04.240 --> 13:06.240]  Now, it's especially annoying...
[13:06.240 --> 13:08.460]  It's always annoying to have to beg for money on the air.
[13:08.520 --> 13:09.060]  We all know that.
[13:09.240 --> 13:13.260]  But it's especially annoying next week and the week after because of the special programs we're going to be doing.
[13:13.500 --> 13:15.560]  I'm going to be in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean next week.
[13:15.680 --> 13:19.600]  The week after that, a whole bunch of us are going to be at the Hacker Conference.
[13:19.620 --> 13:20.360]  What the Hack?
[13:20.520 --> 13:22.800]  Coming from Holland, from a camp field someplace.
[13:22.800 --> 13:27.860]  We want to bring you those programs as uninterrupted as possible.
[13:28.040 --> 13:29.880]  So that's why we are imploring you.
[13:30.000 --> 13:30.720]  We are asking you.
[13:30.820 --> 13:31.400]  We are begging you.
[13:31.460 --> 13:41.500]  We are pleading that when we ask for funds next week, we're going to ask early in the program, maybe about five minutes after the hour, and we'll spend about five minutes on that.
[13:41.740 --> 13:58.200]  If we can bring in the entire amount for the hour during that five minutes, and we're looking at about $1,000, which really isn't that much considering the number of people who listen and call in usually, if we can bring that in, then we can do the rest of the program without interruption.
[13:58.780 --> 14:01.020]  And we'll be able to do the same thing the week after.
[14:01.140 --> 14:07.440]  But it's extremely important that we pass this along so that we can do these special programs without interrupting them too much.
[14:08.340 --> 14:10.800]  And, you know, it's a good thing to do.
[14:10.940 --> 14:12.340]  It's a good thing to support the radio station.
[14:12.500 --> 14:14.820]  And it's what keeps us going, obviously.
[14:14.820 --> 14:23.380]  And, of course, if you're an RSS feed listener and you're listening with a delay, that would make it difficult, but you could maybe...
[14:23.380 --> 14:23.700]  No, it wouldn't.
[14:23.760 --> 14:24.140]  You know why?
[14:24.360 --> 14:25.380]  I had an idea.
[14:25.640 --> 14:33.280]  You could maybe just remind yourself at that time when our show would normally start to just call in, make a donation.
[14:33.420 --> 14:34.500]  You don't have to listen to the show.
[14:34.620 --> 14:35.720]  You don't have to speak to us.
[14:35.800 --> 14:36.460]  What time is that?
[14:36.460 --> 14:36.980]  And then you can listen to it later.
[14:37.100 --> 14:37.680]  What time is it now?
[14:37.720 --> 14:38.480]  7 p.m.
[14:39.280 --> 14:39.740]  Eastern time.
[14:39.900 --> 14:40.680]  Well, it's not 7 p.m.
[14:40.680 --> 14:40.960]  anymore.
[14:44.820 --> 14:45.760]  But here's the thing.
[14:45.900 --> 14:47.020]  You're listening to this program now.
[14:47.020 --> 14:50.060]  It might not necessarily be Wednesday night between 7 and 8 p.m.
[14:50.080 --> 14:52.320]  Maybe you're listening to this and it's Thursday, maybe Saturday.
[14:52.320 --> 14:53.020]  Who knows?
[14:53.540 --> 15:00.340]  So when you listen to this, which is now, whatever time it happens to be, wherever you are, write a little note to yourself.
[15:00.800 --> 15:03.980]  Please call WBAI at the following phone number.
[15:04.220 --> 15:09.300]  Country code 1, area code 212-209-2950.
[15:10.020 --> 15:12.380]  Call that number next Wednesday.
[15:13.400 --> 15:14.960]  That's Wednesday, what's the date?
[15:15.060 --> 15:15.540]  The 20th?
[15:15.660 --> 15:15.960]  20th.
[15:16.100 --> 15:16.220]  Okay.
[15:16.340 --> 15:20.860]  Wednesday, July 20th at around 7.05 p.m.
[15:21.380 --> 15:22.220]  And pledge.
[15:22.420 --> 15:23.260]  Pledge your support.
[15:24.180 --> 15:26.400]  Pledge whatever it is you can afford.
[15:26.720 --> 15:31.140]  Credit cards always are helpful because that way the amount is immediately added on.
[15:31.920 --> 15:36.380]  We don't know what the premiums will be, but the important thing is that you call and pledge.
[15:36.640 --> 15:38.320]  And you can always ask the people on the phone.
[15:38.400 --> 15:40.060]  The people on the phone will know what the premiums are by that time.
[15:40.060 --> 15:42.960]  You could also make it a special occasion to listen live.
[15:43.140 --> 15:43.880]  That's true, too.
[15:44.000 --> 15:45.080]  And you can do that on our website.
[15:45.200 --> 15:47.980]  We have internet streaming, and we also have FM radio waves.
[15:48.500 --> 15:48.920]  That's right.
[15:49.000 --> 15:56.780]  So there's two ways you can listen live, www.2600.com slash off the hook, or by tuning in to 99.5 FM WBAI New York.
[15:56.860 --> 15:58.980]  FM radio waves are an outdated technology.
[15:59.060 --> 16:02.200]  But there's also a shortwave feed, is there not?
[16:02.240 --> 16:02.440]  No, you're right.
[16:02.620 --> 16:03.840]  Bernie, is there a shortwave feed?
[16:03.840 --> 16:06.580]  Yes, it's a live shortwave feed.
[16:06.780 --> 16:16.800]  We're actually broadcasting live over international shortwave, 50,000 watts, to North and South America and Central America at 7415 kilohertz.
[16:17.000 --> 16:18.580]  And, you know, maybe the Atlantic Ocean, too.
[16:18.700 --> 16:21.340]  I was just going to say, you should be able to pick that up on the Queen Mary.
[16:21.460 --> 16:23.360]  It means I've got to bring another device with me?
[16:23.460 --> 16:23.760]  Oh.
[16:24.440 --> 16:31.400]  I have a very cassette tape-sized shortwave receiver, if you'd like to borrow it, Manuel, on your cruise.
[16:31.640 --> 16:33.020]  All right, we may talk about that, then.
[16:33.020 --> 16:33.440]  Okay.
[16:34.020 --> 16:34.820]  Good antenna on it?
[16:35.420 --> 16:36.380]  Yeah, it's pretty good.
[16:36.520 --> 16:37.140]  Good old radio.
[16:37.740 --> 16:39.100]  Okay, I may need that to...
[16:39.100 --> 16:46.820]  If you're on the ship, you should make friends with the guys in the wireless room and see if they have a shortwave receiver, which I'm sure they do.
[16:46.920 --> 16:48.000]  The wireless room?
[16:48.160 --> 16:50.440]  What do they call it on ships these days, okay?
[16:50.740 --> 16:53.860]  Since I went down with the Titanic, I don't know anymore.
[16:54.240 --> 16:54.860]  Wireless room.
[16:55.000 --> 16:55.280]  Whatever.
[16:55.540 --> 16:56.440]  This is going to be a fun trip.
[16:56.700 --> 16:57.680]  CDQ, CDQ.
[16:57.680 --> 17:09.550]  Anyway, check the website, too, because we'll be carrying on an updated log, I guess, of all the adventures that go on along the way, pictures, entries of various sorts.
[17:09.660 --> 17:10.900]  And I should also point this out.
[17:10.900 --> 17:25.460]  We're making another film based on... from 2600 Films where we're going around the world and talking to people and just listening to what people have to say in various parts of the world, getting stories, getting jokes, getting anecdotes of various sorts.
[17:25.460 --> 17:41.060]  Whether it's a passenger on an ocean liner, whether it's a farmer in the middle of Mongolia, whether it's somebody in the streets of Moscow or Tokyo or Beijing, we're going to be filming people telling us in their own words, in their own language, things that are important to them,
[17:41.210 --> 17:45.360]  whether they're stories, whether they're amusing little incidents that have happened.
[17:45.490 --> 18:04.780]  So if you're along the route that we'll be taking, which is basically across the Atlantic Ocean through London, Amsterdam, the campground in Holland, Berlin, Warsaw, Minsk, Moscow, Ulaanbaatar, Beijing, Shanghai, Tokyo, and Long Beach, California.
[18:06.020 --> 18:07.880]  Well, that's where the freighter docks, all right?
[18:08.920 --> 18:12.320]  You can contact us, OTH at 2600.com.
[18:12.420 --> 18:15.880]  Actually, we'll probably have a better email address just for the film, but for right now, you can contact us that way.
[18:16.100 --> 18:20.520]  And maybe we can meet up and you can speak to the camera and maybe be in a film.
[18:22.020 --> 18:22.760]  So that's interesting.
[18:22.920 --> 18:23.300]  Yeah, it is.
[18:23.490 --> 18:26.400]  I'd like to meet up with some people in London on the day that I'm there.
[18:26.580 --> 18:27.400]  Well, you're going to...
[18:27.400 --> 18:29.620]  Yeah, it's interesting because you're going to be in London the same day I'm in London.
[18:29.710 --> 18:29.840]  Yeah.
[18:30.400 --> 18:30.970]  Now, London.
[18:31.140 --> 18:31.780]  Okay, interesting.
[18:32.040 --> 18:34.060]  It's been a very crazy week for London.
[18:34.540 --> 18:38.360]  First, Pink Floyd reunited, and that was pretty cool, even though MTV really messed it up.
[18:39.940 --> 18:41.680]  Then London got selected for the Olympics.
[18:41.680 --> 18:42.710]  That was a surprise, wasn't it?
[18:43.420 --> 18:45.280]  As long as it's not New York, you know, I'm...
[18:45.280 --> 18:46.300]  I really thought it would be Paris.
[18:47.100 --> 18:49.440]  And then London got bombed right after that.
[18:50.740 --> 18:51.060]  Literally.
[18:51.960 --> 18:54.490]  It really was a bit of a downer.
[18:54.580 --> 19:02.400]  I was actually driving home last week after the show and listening to BBC News on FM radio.
[19:03.160 --> 19:06.210]  And the way they were reporting the story kept changing by the minute.
[19:06.460 --> 19:08.540]  First, it was electrical explosions on the train.
[19:08.780 --> 19:11.230]  Then it was lots of electrical explosions.
[19:11.490 --> 19:13.300]  Then all of a sudden, a bus also exploded.
[19:13.660 --> 19:17.860]  And by the time I arrived home, we pretty much knew what this was all about.
[19:19.400 --> 19:24.840]  Anybody notice anything interesting in the way the story was reported or the way it came about?
[19:24.970 --> 19:25.940]  Or any technological issues?
[19:26.820 --> 19:27.900]  I noticed the same thing.
[19:28.460 --> 19:28.900]  Timing.
[19:29.080 --> 19:29.580]  Well, okay.
[19:29.710 --> 19:31.880]  I say timing proves that this is very sophisticated.
[19:32.060 --> 19:32.700]  I don't get that.
[19:33.100 --> 19:38.020]  Why is making something happen at the same time as something else a measure of sophistication?
[19:39.480 --> 19:40.200]  It shouldn't.
[19:40.320 --> 19:44.640]  I mean, how long have we had electronic timing devices like digital watches?
[19:45.080 --> 19:45.900]  Not even electronic.
[19:46.400 --> 19:48.100]  Look at your old World War II movies.
[19:48.360 --> 19:52.340]  Everybody gets together and says, at the mark, it's 800 hours.
[19:52.460 --> 19:52.840]  You know?
[19:52.960 --> 19:54.040]  And they count down to it.
[19:54.210 --> 19:55.400]  You know, you have a good watch.
[19:55.560 --> 19:56.860]  You have a crowd of people together to do that, right?
[19:56.860 --> 20:01.730]  Well, apparently these four guys, or five guys, were together outside King's Cross Station.
[20:01.900 --> 20:03.680]  They could have synchronized watches.
[20:04.940 --> 20:06.180]  Or, you know...
[20:06.180 --> 20:07.470]  Maybe they used NTP.
[20:07.710 --> 20:12.300]  Even your telephone has coordinated time on it.
[20:12.820 --> 20:13.460]  Right?
[20:13.730 --> 20:20.780]  This is where we start getting into the technology and the aftermath and the real implications of technology.
[20:20.780 --> 20:27.140]  Because, you know, they shut down cell phone service in some New York City vehicular tunnels, but not in others.
[20:27.400 --> 20:28.200]  I heard about that.
[20:28.260 --> 20:30.420]  Well, because the tunnels are run by two different entities.
[20:30.580 --> 20:32.700]  They're run by the Port Authority and they're run by the MTA.
[20:32.820 --> 20:35.020]  The ones on the East River are the MTA.
[20:35.160 --> 20:37.140]  The ones on the Hudson River are Port Authority.
[20:37.210 --> 20:39.060]  And I think Port Authority, they're the ones that shut it down?
[20:39.100 --> 20:39.800]  Yeah, the Port Authority.
[20:39.970 --> 20:42.060]  And they claim that the police asked them this.
[20:42.180 --> 20:43.060]  The police say they didn't.
[20:44.280 --> 20:49.200]  And, you know, obviously it's a really hysterical reaction to something that I don't think very many people understand.
[20:49.200 --> 20:53.300]  And also, you know, most people, a lot of people carry cell phones in case of emergency.
[20:53.300 --> 20:58.230]  And if there's an emergency in the tunnel, that might be a time that you'd want a cell phone.
[20:58.360 --> 21:00.880]  You don't need a cell phone to blow up a bomb.
[21:01.080 --> 21:02.180]  You can do it in many ways.
[21:02.340 --> 21:05.420]  And, you know, you really don't need very much sophistication to do this.
[21:05.710 --> 21:09.640]  The sad fact is it's extremely easy to blow things up.
[21:09.760 --> 21:11.380]  It's extremely easy to hurt people.
[21:11.520 --> 21:13.440]  It's extremely easy to commit all kinds of crimes.
[21:13.640 --> 21:14.620]  We've got to deal with that.
[21:14.620 --> 21:19.440]  The only time I'd say that you need a cell phone for something like that would be if you needed, like, arbitrary timing.
[21:19.680 --> 21:26.460]  Like, when people have blown up bridges, as, say, an ambassador or someone is passing underneath, that's something where you have to watch and time it.
[21:26.640 --> 21:28.860]  You can't just set it for a time to go off.
[21:28.900 --> 21:32.120]  No, because then it's a complete disaster and you blow up a bridge for no reason at all.
[21:32.230 --> 21:32.380]  Right.
[21:32.540 --> 21:34.360]  But you don't even need a cell phone for that.
[21:34.470 --> 21:36.230]  You can do it with all sorts of wireless devices.
[21:36.320 --> 21:36.960]  Right, but I'm just saying.
[21:37.080 --> 21:39.160]  I mean, people have used cell phones for that kind of thing.
[21:39.160 --> 21:41.880]  But for what happened in London, it's pretty obvious.
[21:42.020 --> 21:44.760]  First of all, you didn't need to have it happen at the exact same moment anyway.
[21:45.120 --> 21:50.340]  There's really no reason I can see why that was necessary for the people carrying this out.
[21:51.860 --> 21:54.140]  So if you did, though, it's not hard.
[21:54.280 --> 21:59.160]  It's not hard to simply say, okay, at this time, everything blows up and set it for a coordinated time.
[21:59.280 --> 22:02.660]  So I don't know what all the amazement is at that.
[22:03.000 --> 22:08.140]  But really what it's all about is do we want to live in a society where things are constantly blowing up?
[22:09.160 --> 22:09.980]  In Baghdad every day.
[22:10.120 --> 22:10.760]  It happened again today.
[22:11.180 --> 22:11.460]  All right?
[22:11.520 --> 22:13.000]  It hardly makes the news anymore.
[22:13.200 --> 22:17.480]  So what Tony Blair has succeeded in doing is bringing it home to his people for some reason.
[22:17.660 --> 22:19.520]  And Bush has succeeded in doing the same.
[22:19.620 --> 22:20.320]  It hasn't happened here yet.
[22:20.320 --> 22:21.640]  I think it will at some point.
[22:21.800 --> 22:23.460]  It's not hard to blow things up.
[22:23.520 --> 22:26.720]  You're not going to prevent it by turning off cell phones and tunnels.
[22:26.840 --> 22:32.500]  You're not going to prevent it by closing off lanes of traffic or by having cops with machine guns walking around.
[22:32.980 --> 22:34.080]  None of that is going to prevent it.
[22:34.100 --> 22:40.260]  The only thing that's going to prevent it is to not have society where people want to destroy it, in such mass numbers.
[22:40.440 --> 22:44.280]  You're also not going to prevent it with half a million security cameras all around London.
[22:44.480 --> 22:45.220]  Well, that's interesting.
[22:45.360 --> 22:46.280]  You won't prevent it, yes.
[22:46.780 --> 22:50.500]  And England has more surveillance cameras, I think, than almost anyone.
[22:50.840 --> 22:56.700]  But one thing those surveillance cameras seem to be accomplishing is figuring out where people were at certain times.
[22:56.700 --> 23:02.160]  They have photos of these guys from the north getting on a train together, I think.
[23:02.660 --> 23:06.740]  So you have to wonder, well, maybe these cameras can help out in some regards.
[23:07.060 --> 23:07.860]  After the fact.
[23:08.320 --> 23:09.700]  Yeah, they can't prevent it.
[23:09.840 --> 23:09.960]  Right.
[23:10.100 --> 23:10.900]  They're not preventive.
[23:11.160 --> 23:18.280]  Yeah, I don't think anything can prevent this unless you have security checks every couple of feet, you know, a la airport type security.
[23:18.600 --> 23:22.980]  That'll prevent it because there'll be no one getting on the train, so there'll be no point of bombing them.
[23:24.380 --> 23:30.540]  But yeah, there have been all kinds of reactions here, hysterical reactions of various sorts.
[23:31.640 --> 23:34.440]  Let's see what some of the rundowns that I was able to find.
[23:34.680 --> 23:38.880]  Authorities have increased police presence at United Kingdom-related locations.
[23:39.480 --> 23:40.820]  That's according to the NYPD.
[23:40.820 --> 23:41.440]  What does that mean?
[23:41.780 --> 23:42.560]  Christian chip stores?
[23:42.780 --> 23:43.540]  He didn't elaborate.
[23:43.680 --> 23:45.380]  Jason Post of the NYPD said this.
[23:45.500 --> 23:47.040]  He did not elaborate on just what that means.
[23:47.700 --> 23:54.000]  Daily police staging exercises, which normally focus on the city's financial district, have been refocused on the transit system.
[23:54.100 --> 23:55.260]  Oh, that's real smart.
[23:55.360 --> 23:58.080]  Because they blew up the transit system in London.
[23:58.260 --> 23:59.980]  They're not going to blow up the banks here.
[24:00.080 --> 24:01.480]  No, they're going to blow up the transit system.
[24:01.740 --> 24:03.060]  Makes perfect sense to me.
[24:03.220 --> 24:05.040]  So let's move everybody over there.
[24:05.180 --> 24:10.580]  It shows you how little they know, how incompetent the whole thing is, and how nothing can be prevented in this manner.
[24:10.700 --> 24:12.700]  Well, now, at what point in time were those things taken?
[24:12.700 --> 24:15.620]  Because, I mean, all the attacks were synchronized in London.
[24:15.780 --> 24:21.240]  So if it was right after, then they might have thought, well, maybe they'll try to do the same thing at the same time in multiple locations.
[24:21.440 --> 24:24.240]  Yeah, but if I was a terrorist, I wouldn't be so predictable.
[24:24.700 --> 24:30.000]  I'd say, okay, I'm going to bomb the transit portion of this country, and I'll bomb the malls in this country.
[24:30.160 --> 24:32.120]  Why do I have to do the same thing in every country?
[24:32.400 --> 24:36.020]  Well, if you're going to bomb malls, the United States would be a real good choice.
[24:36.420 --> 24:38.280]  And that leads me to my next point.
[24:38.500 --> 24:49.220]  Malls seem to be a much better target than buses or Wall Street or anything else in the city, because how do you possibly stop that?
[24:49.660 --> 24:52.860]  Do you have security checkpoints at the entrance to every single mall in the country?
[24:53.040 --> 24:54.000]  It would be insane.
[24:54.260 --> 24:55.100]  Maybe no one will go to malls.
[24:55.140 --> 24:55.620]  That'd be great.
[24:55.800 --> 24:56.460]  Well, okay.
[24:56.520 --> 24:57.140]  I guess it's a sign.
[24:57.140 --> 25:03.380]  I mean, I wish there were more, better ways to accomplish that goal, but... But you'll settle for that, huh?
[25:03.640 --> 25:04.260]  No, no.
[25:04.500 --> 25:04.840]  Emmanuel?
[25:05.080 --> 25:05.300]  Yes?
[25:05.560 --> 25:10.500]  I would defend to say it'd be a more painful target rather than a better target, depending on how you're looking at it.
[25:10.620 --> 25:13.520]  Well, you know, people who blow things up don't really care about the pain they cause.
[25:13.520 --> 25:13.600]  It's true.
[25:13.800 --> 25:15.100]  I think that's quite obvious.
[25:16.220 --> 25:25.380]  So, you know, we had better start looking a little deeper as to the causes of these things rather than trying to fool ourselves into thinking that we can stop it because we can't.
[25:26.060 --> 25:28.180]  Otherwise, this kind of thing wouldn't be going on anywhere.
[25:28.720 --> 25:28.840]  Okay.
[25:28.840 --> 25:30.720]  Technology is not the answer to stopping this.
[25:30.900 --> 25:31.080]  Right.
[25:31.560 --> 25:34.680]  A couple more points of things that changed as a result of this.
[25:34.800 --> 25:41.980]  Although there was no direct threat to New York City, police were deployed to secure the underground subway trains and public transportation buses.
[25:42.800 --> 25:49.060]  Officers from the Organized Crime Unit and Narcotics Division were assigned to help with the increased security around the transit system.
[25:49.220 --> 25:50.380]  Now, here's something interesting.
[25:50.520 --> 26:04.980]  They said a Hercules team, this is their phrasing, a Hercules team, that's an emergency unit with heavy weaponry, is carrying out TOM, T-O-M, train order maintenance at Bowling Green Subway Station.
[26:05.180 --> 26:08.580]  This entails two or more officers boarding each car on every train.
[26:08.680 --> 26:16.080]  Now, it just seems so bizarre that the information they give out sometimes, train order maintenance, I don't know if that's just something they do at Bowling Green.
[26:16.080 --> 26:17.800]  I don't know why they pick Bowling Green.
[26:17.800 --> 26:22.640]  This is something that actually started quite some time ago unrelated to terrorism.
[26:22.960 --> 26:29.360]  What it is, or what it started out as, was two officers per car and zero tolerance.
[26:29.360 --> 26:33.100]  Anything going on, you're either taken off the train or arrested.
[26:33.300 --> 26:37.420]  Feet on the seat, drinking soda or whatever.
[26:37.760 --> 26:42.000]  Anything that's a violation, they'll at least take you off the train.
[26:42.220 --> 26:45.340]  Usually they don't bother arresting you for those minor things.
[26:45.960 --> 26:54.260]  But in high crime areas, this often was a good thing when it started years and years ago.
[26:54.440 --> 26:55.900]  That's train order maintenance you're talking about.
[26:55.960 --> 26:59.520]  If you believe that violating people's civil rights is a good thing, then yes.
[26:59.680 --> 27:00.060]  Well, no.
[27:00.140 --> 27:04.480]  But if you see a guy who's obviously got a bulge in his belt, and that's what you're doing.
[27:04.600 --> 27:08.760]  You're sending in multiple police officers to observe a gun.
[27:09.220 --> 27:12.100]  Oh, I thought you were saying something else was illegal now.
[27:13.480 --> 27:14.480]  Okay, but that's Tom.
[27:14.660 --> 27:16.000]  What about Hercules' team?
[27:16.200 --> 27:18.120]  Well, those are the heavily armed guys.
[27:18.280 --> 27:21.260]  Have you heard about, as a former employee of the transit system, did you ever hear of a Hercules' team?
[27:21.380 --> 27:26.460]  Hercules' team is a police thing that started after 9-11, or actually before 9-11.
[27:26.460 --> 27:31.120]  It's the heavily armed guys who look essentially like well-armed stormtroopers.
[27:31.120 --> 27:35.300]  The shrapnel-proof helmets with the long backs.
[27:35.480 --> 27:42.120]  So you're saying that New York City is so lawless that it takes a machine gun to stop someone drinking their soda on the subway.
[27:43.120 --> 27:45.800]  Well, that could be true in some parts of Brooklyn and the Bronx.
[27:45.960 --> 27:56.280]  But anyway, no, this is to show the flag sort of thing, to impress upon prospective terrorists that, gee, there are lots of cops, well-armed, and, you know...
[27:56.280 --> 27:57.540]  Do you really think that impresses terrorists?
[27:57.540 --> 27:58.260]  No, I don't think that.
[27:58.440 --> 28:02.680]  I'm telling you what I think the transit authority of the police department thinks.
[28:02.820 --> 28:05.840]  And this will deter a suicide bomber who's intent on...
[28:05.840 --> 28:06.200]  Right.
[28:06.200 --> 28:07.900]  Suicide bombers don't want to be murdered.
[28:08.020 --> 28:08.860]  They want to kill themselves.
[28:08.940 --> 28:09.600]  It's clear.
[28:10.280 --> 28:10.680]  Unbelievable.
[28:11.080 --> 28:17.900]  Okay, well, continuing on here, MTA employees have been instructed to be extra vigilant and employees are checking the trains before they leave terminals.
[28:18.480 --> 28:20.720]  That's according to the New York City Transit Authority.
[28:20.880 --> 28:22.540]  I don't know what exactly they're checking or how.
[28:23.420 --> 28:23.700]  Extra vigilant.
[28:24.060 --> 28:26.080]  Yeah, and this is one of the funniest ones, too.
[28:26.160 --> 28:30.080]  The first platoon of NYPD officers, the group that works the 12 a.m.
[28:30.100 --> 28:31.040]  to 7.30 a.m.
[28:31.120 --> 28:33.200]  shift, is being held indefinitely.
[28:34.540 --> 28:36.000]  I don't know if they're still being held.
[28:36.060 --> 28:37.120]  Well, that was the day of the bombings.
[28:37.120 --> 28:37.580]  Yeah, but...
[28:37.580 --> 28:38.360]  They kept them on...
[28:38.360 --> 28:38.840]  Indefinitely.
[28:39.420 --> 28:41.540]  Well, I don't know how many hours they kept them on.
[28:41.700 --> 28:44.060]  If there's an NYPD officer listening, let us know.
[28:44.260 --> 28:49.620]  The officers will continue to work indefinitely and be used for counterterrorism and protection of mass transit.
[28:49.620 --> 28:55.120]  A police source said this step adds thousands of extra officers and thousands of very tired officers, too.
[28:55.840 --> 28:57.360]  Sleepy guys with machine guns.
[28:57.980 --> 28:59.500]  Yes, that's what we're looking at.
[29:00.580 --> 29:01.900]  So do drinkers beware.
[29:02.080 --> 29:04.280]  Okay, so none of that makes me feel any safer.
[29:04.300 --> 29:04.960]  How about you guys?
[29:05.640 --> 29:05.900]  Nope.
[29:06.140 --> 29:06.240]  No.
[29:06.540 --> 29:06.820]  All right.
[29:08.960 --> 29:16.020]  So something you mentioned, Bernie, though, right after this happened was the effect on the stock market on particular stocks.
[29:16.080 --> 29:22.420]  And I thought that was really kind of sick, some of the things I was reading, especially this came from the Dow Jones Newswires.
[29:23.680 --> 29:27.980]  Now, they were talking about stocks that rallied on the news.
[29:28.440 --> 29:30.620]  One stock was Identix, Inc.
[29:30.620 --> 29:33.000]  They produced fingerprint and face scanning systems.
[29:33.460 --> 29:36.500]  Identix rose $0.29 to $5.45.
[29:36.500 --> 29:40.640]  Other companies in the access control business saw gains, including LaserCard Corporation.
[29:42.380 --> 29:58.540]  Morgan Keegan analyst Brian Ruttenberg said that bombing would trigger increased screening, increased surveillance and communication interception, further sensor deployments, and accelerated deployment of secure ID initiatives to track people, potentially accelerating the launch of the UK national ID program,
[29:58.860 --> 30:00.240]  which we talked about a couple of weeks ago.
[30:00.400 --> 30:06.040]  You know, assuming for argument that the people they've said did it actually did it, these people are all born in Britain.
[30:06.180 --> 30:08.000]  They would possess national ID cards.
[30:08.220 --> 30:10.760]  They would not be caught by this one bit.
[30:11.540 --> 30:13.500]  Yeah, well, they'd know who they were, I guess, a lot quicker.
[30:13.900 --> 30:15.160]  They know who... Oh, wonderful.
[30:15.480 --> 30:18.560]  They know who they are now, and it didn't do any good.
[30:18.560 --> 30:26.420]  I mean, is there any scenario you can imagine where having an ID card would have stopped this, would have changed it in any way?
[30:26.600 --> 30:34.160]  Only if you're somebody who's blown something up before, and you're walking into a bus with a bomb, and for some reason, you're not in prison.
[30:34.260 --> 30:39.600]  I would think without an ID card, that probably would, you know, be problematic.
[30:40.180 --> 30:44.700]  I just thought of this, maybe they'll carry fake ID cards, people who want to blow up buses, you know?
[30:44.920 --> 30:45.060]  Right.
[30:45.140 --> 30:46.300]  There's nothing they won't do.
[30:46.300 --> 30:46.800]  I don't know.
[30:46.940 --> 30:50.080]  We've never seen fake ID of any sort in the United States, have we?
[30:50.220 --> 30:50.420]  No.
[30:50.560 --> 30:51.860]  We've been amazingly clean of that.
[30:51.900 --> 30:54.260]  You're not going to be presenting ID when you board a bus.
[30:54.460 --> 30:55.040]  Not yet.
[30:55.160 --> 30:55.560]  Not yet.
[30:55.680 --> 30:57.140]  You better get used to it, though.
[30:57.780 --> 31:00.440]  It'll be, I guess, printed on your MetroCard or something.
[31:00.440 --> 31:03.040]  Yeah, you could recharge your MetroCard, which would actually be your state ID.
[31:03.400 --> 31:14.460]  Ironically, though, I have seen at the Port Authority bus terminal that they do scan yourself and examine your bags on some trips.
[31:15.980 --> 31:31.740]  Other beneficiaries Thursday were X-ray detection companies, OSI Systems, Inc., and American Science and Engineering, and intelligence software company, Verant Systems, fingerprint identification company, Cogent, advanced $0.77 to $0.2915.
[31:31.740 --> 31:36.400]  Protective equipment maker, Mine Safety Appliances, added 1.8%.
[31:36.400 --> 31:42.500]  And sensor company, RAE Systems, Inc., which rose 7%.
[31:42.500 --> 31:52.100]  And don't forget, L3 Communications Holdings, right across the river from me as I speak in Camden, New Jersey, which rose $0.71 to 0.7%.
[31:52.100 --> 31:55.480]  You know, cash grab for bombing profits.
[31:55.660 --> 32:02.820]  Now, I saw so many reports from CNN to Fox, even to BBC, where they were focusing on how will this affect the market.
[32:02.820 --> 32:05.820]  That was one of the first questions people were asking, how is this going to affect the market?
[32:05.980 --> 32:07.940]  Who cares how it affects the market?
[32:08.080 --> 32:09.740]  Good Lord, people are being blown to bits.
[32:09.880 --> 32:16.040]  And all people can think about is their portfolio and how much money they're going to make out of it, or how much money they might lose because of it.
[32:16.160 --> 32:24.760]  There are times when certain things should get set aside, at least, you know, if not in our minds, at least over the airwaves, where we should be focusing on a little bit more, you know, humanitarian issues.
[32:25.500 --> 32:26.840]  Perhaps this is part of the problem?
[32:27.020 --> 32:33.860]  I've said before that one of my favorite things about WBAI is they are not constantly telling you that the Dow Jones, whatever that is, went up or down.
[32:34.040 --> 32:36.280]  Yeah, you know, I don't think we've ever mentioned that ever on the air.
[32:36.460 --> 32:43.200]  Despite my republicanism and capitalistic tendencies, I hate to actually defend corporations at a time like this.
[32:43.240 --> 32:44.000]  Oh, you love it.
[32:44.220 --> 32:45.160]  Especially the media.
[32:45.340 --> 32:59.220]  But I swear, I was watching all that night of the explosions, and at least on the major broadcast networks, I did not see, that night at least, anything about the stock market and how this will affect the markets.
[32:59.740 --> 33:05.980]  So, you know, if you happen to turn on MSNBC or CNBC or FNN and saw this, that's one thing.
[33:06.280 --> 33:08.400]  To the man who's a hammer, everything's a nail.
[33:08.860 --> 33:11.740]  I was looking at it from a different point of view, and I didn't see it.
[33:11.800 --> 33:12.160]  I'm sorry.
[33:12.320 --> 33:14.360]  On the broadcast networks, maybe it's a little different.
[33:14.600 --> 33:17.660]  But on the news networks, it seems like that was one of the main concerns.
[33:17.740 --> 33:21.140]  I guess when you have, you know, hours to fill, they have to talk about it.
[33:21.200 --> 33:23.400]  All right, I'll grant you if hours to fill, eventually they would have come around.
[33:23.400 --> 33:25.120]  But they were talking about this pretty quickly afterwards.
[33:25.260 --> 33:26.160]  That's what annoys me.
[33:26.160 --> 33:26.340]  All right.
[33:26.440 --> 33:29.100]  I just wanted to point out that not everybody was that crass.
[33:31.300 --> 33:33.880]  Okay, so that's the deal with that.
[33:33.960 --> 33:40.200]  We'd like to know what people think about how it might be affecting us locally as well as a nation.
[33:40.720 --> 33:41.480]  It's kind of scary.
[33:41.500 --> 33:43.820]  When these things happen, all of a sudden viewpoints change.
[33:43.820 --> 33:47.460]  People say, yeah, you know what, maybe we should have this particular security initiative.
[33:47.580 --> 33:50.840]  Maybe we should give up these rights because it'll make us safer.
[33:50.880 --> 33:53.500]  Well, we're here to tell you that that's not necessarily so.
[33:53.500 --> 33:56.860]  So, okay, yes, go ahead, Bernie.
[33:57.340 --> 34:06.960]  Speaking of rights, we had a lot of listeners write into it this past week about the issue of reporters going to jail for not revealing their confidential sources.
[34:07.120 --> 34:07.320]  Yes.
[34:07.360 --> 34:10.420]  In fact, I have one of those letters in front of me.
[34:10.540 --> 34:11.610]  Would you like me to read that now?
[34:11.880 --> 34:12.480]  Please do.
[34:12.680 --> 34:12.920]  All right.
[34:12.980 --> 34:16.100]  This is one of a few letters we've gotten along this topic.
[34:16.320 --> 34:21.280]  And of course, this is in response to us talking about the Judith Miller case last week.
[34:21.600 --> 34:24.200]  With all due respect, have you guys lost your minds?
[34:24.480 --> 34:27.720]  Judith Miller was not sent to jail for protecting a confidential source.
[34:27.720 --> 34:32.340]  She was sent to jail for protecting a likely criminal, someone who may have committed treason.
[34:32.590 --> 34:41.480]  The objective of the Bush administration in revealing Valerie Plame's identity was to deter whistleblowers like Joseph Wilson from speaking out against government wrongdoing.
[34:41.680 --> 34:44.720]  To compare this case to Watergate and Deep Throat is beyond laughable.
[34:44.840 --> 34:48.780]  There are laws on the books to protect actual whistleblowers from government retaliation.
[34:48.780 --> 34:51.540]  This case has nothing to do with the practice of journalism.
[34:51.800 --> 35:00.040]  Someone called up Judith Miller, a despicable human being who did more to promote the invasion of Iraq than anyone on the planet, and told her that Joe Wilson's wife is a CIA agent.
[35:00.220 --> 35:03.400]  How in the world do you consider this to have anything to do whatsoever with news gathering?
[35:03.590 --> 35:08.420]  I have the utmost respect for all of you, and I hate to have to write this, but when it comes to Judith Miller, my blood starts to boil.
[35:08.590 --> 35:18.820]  I hope she is using her time in jail to think about the thousands of innocent Iraqis who have been killed or maimed due in large part because her and the New York Times convinced enough people in this country that a mushroom cloud was about to descend upon us.
[35:18.940 --> 35:21.160]  They can throw away the key to herself, all I care.
[35:21.520 --> 35:23.340]  Anyway, thanks for taking the time to read this.
[35:23.440 --> 35:23.980]  Signed, Lewis.
[35:24.550 --> 35:37.640]  Well, Lewis, you raise interesting points, and I've heard this said about Judith Miller quite a few times, her record as far as reporting things like the WND threat from Iraq.
[35:37.900 --> 35:50.900]  But, you know, I have to say it causes me great concern whenever anybody is talked about in this way who is a journalist, where you say, you know, she should go to prison because she's protecting someone who's a criminal.
[35:51.090 --> 35:54.590]  Well, what do you think Nixon would have said about the people who were talking about Watergate?
[35:54.760 --> 35:56.090]  He would have called them criminals.
[35:56.260 --> 36:03.020]  What do you think they say about people who reveal things to 2600, who write articles for us from inside information?
[36:03.300 --> 36:04.160]  Those are criminals.
[36:04.160 --> 36:08.920]  Those are people who are breaking the law somehow by telling you something they're not supposed to be revealing.
[36:09.440 --> 36:13.550]  So, you know, this is something that can be transferred to so many different levels.
[36:13.590 --> 36:21.380]  And yes, I understand the frustration and anger people feel towards something of this nature, but it's a foot in the door.
[36:21.440 --> 36:27.260]  If you can send someone to prison for not revealing their source for this, you can send someone to prison for not revealing their source about anything.
[36:27.540 --> 36:32.500]  And I do think there are other ways to find out who was really behind the leak.
[36:32.500 --> 36:36.520]  I think a little bit of Investigative journalism of a different sort might have found that out.
[36:36.820 --> 36:40.180]  I don't think anyone here likes her any more than this writer does.
[36:40.300 --> 36:48.610]  But I think you can't let your personal feelings interfere with your judgment as far as, you know, prosecuting someone for not revealing their sources goes.
[36:49.300 --> 36:50.220]  How do you feel, Bernie?
[36:51.040 --> 36:55.360]  Well, I think people who are upset at Judith Miller are missing the point.
[36:55.660 --> 37:04.900]  You know, as soon as the federal government can imprison reporters for not revealing their confidential sources, there's a profound chilling effect.
[37:05.280 --> 37:26.900]  And even if the source is... the source, the secret source is some law-breaking, backstabbing scumbag, and they happen to hold a powerful government position, as both Karl Rove were, and Mark Felt, Deep Throat, both were government power holders.
[37:29.360 --> 37:33.540]  It's going to prevent information from getting out to the public that needs to.
[37:33.820 --> 37:52.040]  And I don't think any of those reporters that we've been reading around lately, like Bob Woodward, Karl Bernstein, in the Watergate case, or Daniel Ellsberg, who reported the Pentagon Papers case, I don't think any of them in today's political climate would be safe from being locked up for not revealing their confidential sources,
[37:52.040 --> 37:55.200]  which they refused to do back in the day.
[37:55.200 --> 38:02.460]  Now, they weren't indicted for... or they weren't called before the grand jury, but these days, anybody's called before the grand jury, it seems.
[38:03.770 --> 38:06.660]  Well, here's my question, though, about this whole case.
[38:07.820 --> 38:13.570]  I'm quite happy that Karl Rove has finally been exposed, as the despicable person he is.
[38:13.800 --> 38:23.900]  But if Time Magazine had not caved in and revealed private email to the government, how would we have ever found out?
[38:23.900 --> 38:29.050]  Was it possible that Karl Rove would still be maintaining his innocence into the future?
[38:29.050 --> 38:29.110]  Sure.
[38:30.260 --> 38:35.280]  I predict that we will learn that Novak already told the grand jury that it was Karl Rove.
[38:35.500 --> 38:35.680]  Okay.
[38:35.780 --> 38:40.020]  Well, supposing Novak had an ounce of integrity, too, and had refused to reveal his sources.
[38:40.610 --> 38:43.880]  How do you find out when somebody does something horrible like what Karl Rove did?
[38:44.070 --> 38:45.040]  Is there any way to do that?
[38:45.070 --> 38:47.280]  I don't think what Karl Rove did was especially horrible.
[38:47.320 --> 38:47.740]  Wait, wait, wait.
[38:48.000 --> 38:48.800]  Well, I got to find out...
[38:48.800 --> 38:49.770]  You're defending Karl Rove.
[38:49.780 --> 38:54.380]  I'm not defending Karl Rove.
[38:55.110 --> 39:00.980]  I think he's a horrible human being, but I think the CIA is a horrible organization, and...
[39:00.980 --> 39:05.590]  Well, you do recognize that revealing a CIA agent's name could very well cost them their life.
[39:05.760 --> 39:10.110]  So it's kind of as retribution for their husband criticizing the government?
[39:10.340 --> 39:11.900]  That's kind of despicable in my eyes.
[39:11.920 --> 39:14.940]  The CIA is in the business of taking other people's lives.
[39:15.300 --> 39:18.360]  Well, yeah, but not everybody in the CIA necessarily.
[39:18.840 --> 39:22.840]  I mean, I just don't see that logic as necessarily flowing.
[39:23.570 --> 39:35.610]  Emmanuel, to answer your question, there was another way to find out who the leaker was in this Valerie Plain case where, you know, this covert agent's name was revealed in violation of federal law.
[39:36.000 --> 39:38.570]  A year ago, you could have found this out publicly.
[39:40.050 --> 39:41.940]  Where might we have found that out, Bernie?
[39:42.700 --> 39:47.340]  Well, there was an event that went on last July in New York known as the Fifth Hope Conference.
[39:47.340 --> 39:48.400]  That was our conference.
[39:48.740 --> 39:49.340]  It was.
[39:49.440 --> 39:50.380]  Wow, yes, our conference.
[39:50.540 --> 39:53.440]  You're saying that we knew back then that Karl Rowe was behind this?
[39:54.480 --> 39:56.480]  It's amazing what you can learn at a Hope Conference.
[39:56.610 --> 39:56.800]  All right.
[39:56.900 --> 40:00.610]  Well, I believe we have a selection from the conference right now.
[40:00.780 --> 40:08.700]  I believe none other than you, Bernie, asked our resident CIA agent, Robert Steele, who gave the keynote at the First Hope in 1994.
[40:09.240 --> 40:17.880]  You asked him about the outing of this CIA agent, and he answered you, and the answer might be kind of interesting, consider this was one year ago.
[40:18.460 --> 40:19.820]  All right, sir, your question.
[40:20.040 --> 40:24.820]  You mentioned a short while ago a need for a national trader intelligence system.
[40:25.260 --> 40:32.320]  On that subject, what's your take on the whole Valerie Plain outing, and who do you think did it?
[40:32.920 --> 40:40.320]  I think Scooter Libby and Dick Cheney's office did it with Karl Rowe's explicit approval and Dick Cheney's explicit concealment after the fact.
[40:41.460 --> 40:43.000]  What are your feelings on it?
[40:44.840 --> 40:48.050]  It has the potential to be Al Capone's tax return.
[40:49.940 --> 40:50.740]  It really does.
[40:50.960 --> 40:52.460]  Do you think this will ever be...
[40:52.460 --> 40:55.960]  Where do you think the investigation will lead, regardless of who's found who have done it?
[40:55.960 --> 41:07.550]  Part of our problem is that the Republicans control both houses of Congress, and the moderate Republicans are being intimidated by the extremist Republicans, and the people haven't spoken.
[41:07.550 --> 41:11.700]  Right now, the people don't care about Valerie Plume's outing.
[41:14.120 --> 41:23.070]  In as much as the Vice President's office, in my humble opinion, very flagrantly and deliberately violated a national law, I'd like to see them brought to justice.
[41:25.020 --> 41:30.320]  I would like to see Dick Cheney brought to justice for soul-sourcing billions of dollars to Halliburton.
[41:32.260 --> 41:35.700]  You know, these guys are bending or breaking every rule they can find.
[41:37.400 --> 41:43.980]  And the outing of Valerie Plume, I think, is one of the things that George Tenet simply had to be honest about.
[41:43.980 --> 41:46.440]  And it led to his eventual resignation.
[41:47.960 --> 41:48.570]  But it's...
[41:48.570 --> 41:50.860]  Okay, that's pretty interesting stuff.
[41:51.160 --> 41:53.380]  Bernie, is that how you remember it?
[41:53.920 --> 41:55.000]  Yeah, pretty much.
[41:56.980 --> 42:13.800]  Our former CIA analyst, Robert Steele, believes that Vice President Dick Cheney had something to do with this, too, which remains to be seen, and that hasn't been proven otherwise at this point, but apparently Karl Rove, who Bob Steele just named, which everyone heard,
[42:14.050 --> 42:16.550]  is indeed a fact.
[42:16.820 --> 42:25.440]  And this was publicly available knowledge at the HOPE Conference last July, and it's been available online for nearly a year as well, hasn't it?
[42:26.050 --> 42:26.570]  Amazing.
[42:26.880 --> 42:30.460]  So, you know, the truth is out there if you just look a little bit forward.
[42:30.720 --> 42:36.680]  Okay, we always like to accept email from people, so you can write to us.
[42:37.380 --> 42:40.940]  Anytime at OTH at 2600.com.
[42:41.160 --> 42:44.610]  That's OTH for Off the Hook at 2600, 2600.com.
[42:45.280 --> 42:48.260]  If you prefer to send us snail mail, you can do that, too.
[42:48.900 --> 42:52.240]  Write to us at OffTheHook, 120...
[42:52.760 --> 42:53.500]  Wait, I'm sorry.
[42:53.680 --> 42:54.520]  I messed it up.
[42:54.570 --> 42:58.260]  OffTheHook, care of WBAI, 120 Wall Street.
[42:59.540 --> 43:00.260]  10th floor.
[43:01.160 --> 43:02.300]  Oh, Walter, you're here again this week.
[43:02.300 --> 43:02.440]  Hey.
[43:02.590 --> 43:02.960]  How you doing?
[43:03.440 --> 43:04.380]  New York, New York.
[43:05.050 --> 43:07.180]  1-0-0-0-5.
[43:07.900 --> 43:09.070]  It's actually so quiet, you know.
[43:09.090 --> 43:09.900]  I don't know you're here.
[43:10.720 --> 43:15.960]  Okay, and we got this letter from Arseny, who is on the program quite a bit, but he's not on the program right now because he's over in Europe.
[43:16.280 --> 43:19.160]  He's one of the first ones to head over, and I think right now he's in Switzerland.
[43:19.720 --> 43:22.300]  But when he wrote us, he was in Paris.
[43:22.880 --> 43:27.660]  He says, Hi, when I was at the French 2600 meeting, the guys there showed me their national IDs.
[43:27.960 --> 43:31.540]  One guy had a new one, which was just an oversized driver's license.
[43:31.760 --> 43:34.960]  It didn't have pretty holograms or anything and seemed pretty harmless.
[43:35.400 --> 43:37.090]  Another guy showed me the older ID.
[43:37.240 --> 43:38.940]  It looked like a small paper brochure.
[43:39.160 --> 43:42.760]  I'm sure the information inside was exactly the same, but it would be extremely easy to fake.
[43:43.300 --> 43:49.980]  Similarly, the same guy had the same old version of a driver's license, which had detailed information on which types of vehicles he could operate.
[43:50.400 --> 43:54.860]  Both old ones had crappy black and white photos, and the new one had a prettier color one.
[43:55.580 --> 43:59.800]  Also, I saw a car with an RFID sticker near where we'd put our inspection stickers.
[43:59.800 --> 44:07.340]  It's probably used as security somewhere, or maybe it contains an embedded parking permit, or even scarier, detailed license information.
[44:07.740 --> 44:10.420]  A guy told me it had a low-level encryption on it.
[44:10.420 --> 44:12.880]  However, I had no idea how many drinks he'd had at this time.
[44:12.880 --> 44:15.600]  He had told me that P2P had been outlawed.
[44:16.160 --> 44:18.640]  The first thing I noticed about Spain...
[44:18.640 --> 44:19.500]  That's right, he also went to Spain.
[44:19.940 --> 44:25.620]  Besides the reluctance of people to adhere to no smoking signs, were two or three big advertisements for natural gas.
[44:25.800 --> 44:28.740]  It turns out most taxis and buses run on natural gas.
[44:29.000 --> 44:31.940]  I noticed a giant tank in a taxi's trunk.
[44:33.220 --> 44:36.000]  And he says, congrats to London, but Paris should have been picked.
[44:36.100 --> 44:37.560]  I hope he's talking about the Olympics.
[44:37.880 --> 44:38.860]  I think he is.
[44:39.300 --> 44:40.060]  That's Arseny.
[44:40.060 --> 44:41.320]  And hopefully we'll hear from him at some point.
[44:41.500 --> 44:50.800]  I wonder if he might be just overdoing the RFID thing a little bit, because we do have RFIDs for the E-Z Passes here in New York and in many other states.
[44:50.960 --> 44:55.440]  And they just have a credit card number equivalent for the E-Z Pass.
[44:56.140 --> 44:59.540]  And it also does have some encryption on it, although it can be broken.
[45:02.220 --> 45:03.560]  Bernie, you got to...
[45:03.560 --> 45:06.720]  Speaking of vehicles and things, you got to ride in the smart car this weekend.
[45:06.960 --> 45:08.080]  We went down to Philadelphia.
[45:08.080 --> 45:10.840]  Philadelphia, how do you describe that experience?
[45:11.120 --> 45:12.020]  That was a blast.
[45:12.200 --> 45:12.780]  That was a lot of fun.
[45:12.780 --> 45:14.560]  I got to thank you for driving me around in that thing.
[45:15.280 --> 45:18.940]  Even the Philadelphia police were very impressed with this.
[45:19.080 --> 45:23.660]  I think every police officer in Philadelphia knows about this car now, because we were seen by...
[45:23.660 --> 45:26.920]  For some reason, they were all out last Saturday.
[45:27.740 --> 45:28.680]  They stopped us.
[45:29.740 --> 45:38.260]  Not only just stopped us on the street, they stopped us in the middle of one of the busiest intersections of the city, right on Broad Street and South Street, two major streets.
[45:38.620 --> 45:40.500]  In the middle of the intersection, they stopped us.
[45:40.600 --> 45:42.540]  Well, there were 11 cops standing there.
[45:43.120 --> 45:45.380]  I don't know what they were thinking was going to happen.
[45:45.460 --> 45:46.700]  It was a very bizarre situation.
[45:46.700 --> 45:51.220]  It was some kind of fraternity celebration, which meant that they expected a riot.
[45:51.220 --> 45:56.180]  So you had all these people celebrating in the streets, but you had all these cops in riot gear out with machine guns and things.
[45:56.440 --> 45:58.300]  But we're driving across the intersection.
[45:58.440 --> 46:00.240]  Broad Street is a very broad street.
[46:00.440 --> 46:01.680]  It's like Queens Boulevard.
[46:01.760 --> 46:02.580]  It's really wide.
[46:02.720 --> 46:07.340]  So we're driving across this thing, noticing that there's 11 cops in that intersection.
[46:07.740 --> 46:09.640]  And they just wave us over.
[46:09.760 --> 46:10.960]  They say, hey, stop right now.
[46:11.320 --> 46:13.000]  And we thought maybe we'd be in trouble.
[46:13.200 --> 46:16.580]  But instead, they crowd around asking all these questions about the car.
[46:16.840 --> 46:17.880]  Where can they get the car?
[46:17.880 --> 46:21.360]  And it's really weird because this one cop, he racial profiled himself.
[46:21.700 --> 46:26.340]  He said, like, how does a small Chinese guy like me fit into a car like this?
[46:26.420 --> 46:29.980]  You know, it's like, why are you being racist towards yourself?
[46:29.980 --> 46:32.660]  Apparently, this is something that you get taught in the police department.
[46:32.840 --> 46:44.560]  But, you know, everybody was very happy to see it, regardless of whatever crowd of people you were passing, whether it was a bunch of fraternity people or a bunch of senior citizens or little kids or cops.
[46:44.860 --> 46:47.500]  Everybody gave it a thumbs up or a smile or something.
[46:47.500 --> 46:49.060]  Nobody is unhappy to see this car.
[46:49.440 --> 46:50.400]  That's what I was amazed about.
[46:50.540 --> 46:52.640]  People in cars next to us on the street.
[46:53.710 --> 47:08.180]  Everybody across age, socioeconomic status, race, opinion, everybody just was, like, enthralled with this car and giving thumbs up and cool and other expletives.
[47:09.000 --> 47:10.700]  You drove with the windows down, right?
[47:10.820 --> 47:11.680]  Because that's the best part.
[47:11.800 --> 47:12.220]  You have to.
[47:12.360 --> 47:12.860]  You do have to.
[47:12.920 --> 47:16.120]  And people want to carry on conversations with you while you're driving, which is very unsafe.
[47:16.900 --> 47:20.780]  And one person said, do you mind pulling out in front so I can see your back?
[47:20.960 --> 47:21.120]  You know?
[47:21.480 --> 47:23.100]  He just wanted to see all ends of the car.
[47:23.220 --> 47:24.360]  It was really kind of bizarre.
[47:25.160 --> 47:28.060]  But we brought some joy to the people of Philadelphia, and I'm glad we were able to do that.
[47:28.180 --> 47:33.280]  And also, we're looking into the possibility of fueling the car on vegetable oil, which I understand you can do with a diesel engine.
[47:33.460 --> 47:35.160]  And someone already has done that with a smart car.
[47:35.400 --> 47:37.040]  Well, it's already used vegetable oil, right?
[47:37.120 --> 47:37.320]  Yeah.
[47:37.460 --> 47:37.580]  Biodiesel?
[47:37.700 --> 47:39.360]  It smells like french fries when you drive down the street.
[47:39.440 --> 47:39.500]  Right.
[47:40.060 --> 47:41.420]  Okay, we have a special phone number.
[47:41.500 --> 47:42.100]  You want to try this?
[47:42.260 --> 47:42.420]  Sure.
[47:42.520 --> 47:45.380]  We're going to try and reach the Queen Mary, too, as it's on the ocean.
[47:45.480 --> 47:46.540]  Are all the phone lines taken?
[47:46.780 --> 47:47.400]  No, no, no.
[47:47.440 --> 47:47.720]  All right.
[47:47.860 --> 47:49.440]  You haven't given out the number yet, so...
[47:49.440 --> 47:51.780]  Pick a phone line, and let's try this.
[47:51.840 --> 47:54.240]  It was busy before, but we're going to try now.
[47:55.160 --> 47:57.120]  After we're done with this, you can call us.
[47:57.380 --> 47:58.240]  You can call us.
[47:58.300 --> 47:59.940]  But let's see if we can call them first.
[48:01.180 --> 48:03.060]  As we dial the number live over the air.
[48:03.260 --> 48:03.800]  That's fine.
[48:03.820 --> 48:05.100]  It's 1-800, anyway.
[48:05.400 --> 48:06.180]  Well, it's 1-877.
[48:06.580 --> 48:06.640]  Right.
[48:06.640 --> 48:07.220]  Don't make that mistake again.
[48:07.220 --> 48:08.000]  I'm trying to throw them off.
[48:08.160 --> 48:08.320]  Yeah.
[48:08.580 --> 48:12.580]  But it was busy the last couple of times we called, so it's possible we might not get through.
[48:12.700 --> 48:14.660]  This is the way you don't want to call the boat.
[48:14.820 --> 48:18.980]  This is the way that they suggest you do it, and it costs a huge amount of money.
[48:19.260 --> 48:20.860]  We're not actually going to connect, so don't worry.
[48:22.660 --> 48:24.180]  Even if it does ring, we won't connect.
[48:27.550 --> 48:28.370]  It takes a while.
[48:28.550 --> 48:29.650]  And you dialed enough digits, right?
[48:30.090 --> 48:30.870]  I hope so.
[48:31.390 --> 48:32.150]  Well, we'll find out.
[48:33.350 --> 48:33.690]  Well...
[48:33.690 --> 48:34.530]  No boat.
[48:34.850 --> 48:37.030]  It takes a long time for it to start doing anything.
[48:38.930 --> 48:39.810]  Somehow, I think...
[48:39.810 --> 48:40.870]  I feel like I might have missed the digit.
[48:40.910 --> 48:41.790]  I think you missed a digit.
[48:42.270 --> 48:44.430]  I have to introduce you to that BAI phone system, you know.
[48:45.090 --> 48:46.530]  You have to press the buttons really hard.
[48:46.650 --> 48:48.010]  Hello, BAI phone system.
[48:48.050 --> 48:49.050]  Yeah, it's not...
[48:55.870 --> 48:57.390]  It almost sounds like something's dialing.
[48:57.510 --> 48:58.910]  You hit all the numbers.
[48:58.910 --> 49:00.050]  I can attest to that.
[49:00.390 --> 49:00.590]  All right.
[49:00.750 --> 49:01.630]  Let me try this one more time.
[49:04.430 --> 49:05.170]  And it's busy.
[49:05.310 --> 49:05.810]  Okay, great.
[49:06.290 --> 49:07.870]  So, it doesn't work for two reasons.
[49:08.030 --> 49:08.970]  It's expensive and it's busy.
[49:09.090 --> 49:10.250]  So, never mind that.
[49:10.250 --> 49:11.670]  We'll have a better method next week.
[49:11.850 --> 49:14.470]  Our phone number is 212-209-2900.
[49:14.630 --> 49:15.470]  Shall we take some phone calls?
[49:16.330 --> 49:16.730]  Sure.
[49:17.250 --> 49:17.570]  Okay.
[49:17.730 --> 49:19.150]  Pick a line and let's get started.
[49:19.670 --> 49:20.150]  Good evening.
[49:20.150 --> 49:20.670]  You're on the air.
[49:21.730 --> 49:22.130]  Hello?
[49:22.450 --> 49:22.830]  Go ahead.
[49:23.290 --> 49:23.650]  Oh, hi.
[49:23.890 --> 49:25.290]  Listen, I forgot...
[49:25.290 --> 49:29.190]  Where are you located when you're at the first party and what time?
[49:29.470 --> 49:30.970]  You're talking about the 2600 meeting?
[49:31.570 --> 49:31.970]  Yes.
[49:31.970 --> 49:32.890]  Are you in New York City?
[49:33.490 --> 49:33.870]  Yeah.
[49:34.070 --> 49:39.050]  Okay, they're at the Citigroup Center, which is on 53rd between 3rd and Lexington.
[49:39.350 --> 49:43.910]  They take place the first Friday of the month between the hours of 5 and 8 in the atrium section.
[49:43.930 --> 49:45.130]  That's the public lobby area.
[49:46.210 --> 49:46.930]  What is it?
[49:47.030 --> 49:47.690]  What's the address?
[49:47.790 --> 49:48.150]  What is it?
[49:48.310 --> 49:48.710]  A building?
[49:48.830 --> 49:49.350]  What building is it?
[49:49.430 --> 49:50.250]  It's the building.
[49:50.490 --> 49:54.890]  It's the skyscraper with the slanty roof in Manhattan on 53rd Street between 3rd and Lexington.
[49:54.950 --> 49:55.270]  53rd?
[49:55.430 --> 49:55.610]  Yes.
[49:56.350 --> 49:58.410]  5th Street between Lexington and...
[49:58.410 --> 49:58.710]  Yes.
[49:58.970 --> 49:59.130]  Right.
[49:59.390 --> 50:00.790]  We'll get up on a tourist map, all right?
[50:01.250 --> 50:01.690]  All right.
[50:01.970 --> 50:03.090]  We can't define where all the buildings are.
[50:03.090 --> 50:03.450]  Good evening.
[50:04.130 --> 50:04.650]  Good evening.
[50:04.730 --> 50:05.130]  You're on the air.
[50:06.630 --> 50:07.210]  Go ahead.
[50:08.290 --> 50:09.330]  Please tell your radio now.
[50:09.330 --> 50:09.510]  Yes.
[50:09.650 --> 50:10.470]  What are you calling from?
[50:10.510 --> 50:10.930]  A spaceship?
[50:11.810 --> 50:12.710]  No, I'm sorry.
[50:12.710 --> 50:13.550]  I'm on the road.
[50:13.690 --> 50:14.050]  Oh, okay.
[50:14.070 --> 50:15.770]  Are you driving and talking at the same time?
[50:16.370 --> 50:16.730]  Yeah.
[50:17.490 --> 50:17.850]  Okay.
[50:17.950 --> 50:18.490]  Well, be careful.
[50:18.730 --> 50:22.030]  I can't miss the camera, so whenever it comes on, I gotta get it.
[50:22.150 --> 50:22.450]  Okay.
[50:22.550 --> 50:23.170]  So what's on your mind?
[50:23.710 --> 50:24.190]  Hello, guys.
[50:24.450 --> 50:26.130]  You know, I'm a voice of IP, guys.
[50:26.350 --> 50:27.990]  I also have that monitor system.
[50:28.090 --> 50:30.970]  You guys talked about it a couple times in the past.
[50:30.970 --> 50:34.550]  But I just wanted to let you know there was a new feature that came out about two weeks ago.
[50:35.110 --> 50:36.810]  It's called Samuel Call.
[50:37.670 --> 50:48.650]  Basically, what happens is in the feature box on your dashboard, you're allowed to put as many numbers as you want, where additional numbers, like your cell phone.
[50:49.530 --> 50:52.010]  And when you get a call on your phone...
[50:52.010 --> 50:53.230]  See what I mean about sounding on the water?
[50:54.530 --> 50:54.890]  Yeah.
[50:55.070 --> 50:55.890]  As well as a house phone.
[50:56.010 --> 51:02.050]  Anything you pick up with a house phone, your cell phone, gets a call, will trap the car, which is awesome.
[51:02.330 --> 51:03.610]  Are you using that system now?
[51:04.230 --> 51:06.110]  No, I'm actually on the road with my cell phone.
[51:06.110 --> 51:08.890]  Oh, so you're using a regular cell phone carrier, because you sound like you're on the water.
[51:09.390 --> 51:09.850]  Yeah, exactly.
[51:09.990 --> 51:16.390]  In other words, you know, I'm with T-Mobile, so I punch in my T-Mobile number on my dashboard.
[51:17.030 --> 51:19.010]  And when I'm out of the house, it rings.
[51:19.290 --> 51:21.210]  If somebody's home, then they pick up the phone.
[51:21.950 --> 51:24.430]  If they're not, I get it on my cell phone, and I can answer.
[51:24.510 --> 51:27.730]  And if I don't answer the phone, no one's home will go to my voicemail.
[51:28.150 --> 51:28.930]  It's really neat.
[51:29.990 --> 51:30.310]  If you want...
[51:30.310 --> 51:31.130]  Oops, sorry.
[51:36.190 --> 51:39.330]  Peter, our engineer has slippery fingers, apparently.
[51:40.250 --> 51:41.390]  I want to hear what he had to say.
[51:41.490 --> 51:43.870]  Okay, 212-209-2900 is our phone number.
[51:43.950 --> 51:44.230]  Good evening.
[51:44.350 --> 51:44.790]  You're on the air.
[51:44.870 --> 51:45.410]  Put your hands away.
[51:46.010 --> 51:46.410]  Hello?
[51:46.630 --> 51:46.890]  Go ahead.
[51:47.110 --> 51:47.270]  Hi.
[51:47.450 --> 51:50.550]  I just came back from Europe, and listen to what happened.
[51:50.870 --> 52:04.910]  I went through one control at Kennedy and two controls in London, and they did not detect that I had a big kitchen knife with me, which I took the day before to work, and I forgot to take it out from my knapsack.
[52:04.910 --> 52:06.710]  Was this a sharp knife or a butter knife?
[52:07.150 --> 52:07.930]  Sharp knife.
[52:07.990 --> 52:08.610]  Oh, my God.
[52:09.470 --> 52:09.670]  Wow.
[52:09.890 --> 52:11.190]  And you went through how many checks?
[52:11.510 --> 52:13.590]  I went in Kennedy.
[52:13.990 --> 52:20.090]  Then I had a change of planes in London, and I had two checks over there, and nothing was detected.
[52:20.290 --> 52:24.170]  When I got to Warsaw, then I discovered it in my knapsack, in my hand luggage.
[52:24.950 --> 52:30.110]  I think I should write a letter to home security and give the picture of this knife.
[52:31.350 --> 52:31.790]  Yeah.
[52:32.070 --> 52:33.050]  Do it anonymously.
[52:34.270 --> 52:35.230]  File a complaint.
[52:36.030 --> 52:36.270]  Yeah.
[52:36.730 --> 52:36.990]  All right.
[52:37.070 --> 52:39.270]  Thanks for the input there.
[52:39.970 --> 52:41.850]  Yeah, you can always get through security somehow.
[52:42.630 --> 52:44.910]  Mail it back if you're over in Warsaw right now.
[52:45.050 --> 52:46.090]  Don't try taking it back.
[52:46.370 --> 52:46.590]  Yeah.
[52:46.690 --> 52:48.810]  There's just not enough billions of dollars being spent on this.
[52:48.890 --> 52:53.370]  They've already spent a few billion, but obviously there weren't enough billions spent on this homeland security.
[52:53.610 --> 52:53.830]  Okay.
[52:53.890 --> 52:54.590]  Let's take another phone call.
[52:55.150 --> 52:56.010]  And good evening.
[52:56.010 --> 52:56.850]  You're on the air.
[52:56.850 --> 52:57.990]  Hi, hi, hi.
[52:58.210 --> 53:00.650]  I've got a question for the folks in the studio.
[53:01.850 --> 53:14.490]  I saw a news report today that apparently the English investigation of their bombing seems really to have been aided by their security.
[53:14.650 --> 53:16.270]  You know, their cameras on the streets.
[53:17.070 --> 53:25.570]  And I'm just wondering what folks there think of this, because it sounds like they've got a head start on cracking this case.
[53:26.290 --> 53:33.510]  And it just seems like it bodes ill for, you know, the privacy of individuals.
[53:33.830 --> 53:40.790]  Well, we did mention this earlier in the show that, yes, it seems like they are gaining valuable clues by looking at surveillance cameras.
[53:42.030 --> 53:43.610]  How does that help after the fact?
[53:43.770 --> 53:46.330]  Well, finding who did it, I guess, if you're interested in that.
[53:46.350 --> 53:48.270]  I think most people are interested in finding out who did it.
[53:48.270 --> 53:53.810]  But they had three identities from identity cards left at the blast site after the bombers were blown away.
[53:54.250 --> 53:56.890]  Well, what if they weren't carrying identity cards, you know?
[53:57.090 --> 54:04.530]  Either you have to make it mandatory to have identity cards or have some way of tracking people, you know, if you want this kind of result.
[54:04.670 --> 54:05.290]  It helped some.
[54:05.550 --> 54:09.630]  And then, of course, the mother of one reported him missing.
[54:09.630 --> 54:14.730]  So they, you know, probably traced all his friends and discovered some of them were missing.
[54:15.010 --> 54:17.370]  The point is, it saved a little time.
[54:17.610 --> 54:22.210]  If they were still alive after being suicide bombers, it would have been wonderful.
[54:22.210 --> 54:24.290]  But they're not, and I don't think it helped a big deal.
[54:24.390 --> 54:26.890]  The important thing is, though, that these were British citizens.
[54:27.070 --> 54:30.030]  So that's something that I don't think very many people were expecting.
[54:30.030 --> 54:34.850]  It's also the first suicide bombing in Western Europe, which is kind of surprising as well in history.
[54:35.410 --> 54:42.730]  But it was obvious that nobody knew that this was going to happen because the relatives of the people are phoning in saying they're missing.
[54:43.270 --> 54:48.930]  So, you know, it's obvious that they would have been discovered one way or another.
[54:49.410 --> 54:51.670]  I don't know if you needed the surveillance cameras to do that.
[54:51.830 --> 54:52.870]  It might have taken longer.
[54:53.550 --> 54:54.010]  All right.
[54:54.050 --> 54:54.490]  Next phone call.
[54:55.850 --> 54:56.510]  Good evening.
[54:56.710 --> 54:57.270]  You're on the air.
[54:58.490 --> 54:58.890]  Yeah.
[54:58.990 --> 54:59.090]  Hello.
[54:59.290 --> 54:59.550]  Go ahead.
[54:59.630 --> 55:00.050]  You're on the air.
[55:00.270 --> 55:00.410]  Yeah.
[55:00.490 --> 55:16.430]  Regarding the, let's see, going through the metal detectors at the airport, I don't know this was discussed in the past, but I think when you go through and you've got the S's on your pass, that it actually is picked up by the detector.
[55:17.530 --> 55:23.410]  That's why they always insist that you carry a boarding pass with you in your hand, and then it sets off the alarm.
[55:23.610 --> 55:30.570]  Well, I think it also sets off the eyes of whoever looks at your boarding pass and says, oh, you have four S's, and you must be searched now.
[55:30.570 --> 55:37.210]  Right, but it does indeed set off the alarm because I was, I was affected and I was completely metal free.
[55:37.510 --> 55:40.850]  If you're saying there's RFID or something in the ticket, I don't believe that's correct.
[55:40.850 --> 55:43.150]  And if it is correct, then I haven't seen any tickets like that.
[55:43.290 --> 55:46.590]  But we did notice discrepancies in the data on the magnetic stripe, so...
[55:46.590 --> 55:47.650]  Right, on the magnetic stripe.
[55:47.750 --> 55:48.110]  Okay, okay.
[55:48.190 --> 55:49.270]  What airline were you flying?
[55:49.870 --> 55:55.470]  That was out of the LaGuardia shuttle up to Boston.
[55:55.670 --> 55:56.430]  Let's see, which one was it?
[55:56.530 --> 55:57.390]  I don't even know who flies.
[55:57.530 --> 55:58.170]  Continental, was it?
[55:58.690 --> 55:59.510]  Continental shuttle, yeah.
[55:59.630 --> 55:59.770]  Okay.
[55:59.770 --> 56:01.750]  All right, well, we'll keep an eye on that as well.
[56:02.550 --> 56:09.370]  Also, did you notice the employees at the Natural History Museum have to give a thumb when they come in?
[56:09.450 --> 56:10.890]  They put the thumb on the reader.
[56:11.210 --> 56:11.470]  Really?
[56:12.170 --> 56:12.890]  Yeah, it's right inside.
[56:13.030 --> 56:18.210]  If you go in the subway entrance and you go around behind the information desk, you'll see it right there in plain sight.
[56:18.410 --> 56:21.630]  Okay, well, we'll take a look at that and mock them as they do it.
[56:21.650 --> 56:23.050]  Thanks for that information.
[56:23.850 --> 56:24.830]  Let's take one more phone call.
[56:24.990 --> 56:25.150]  All right.
[56:26.510 --> 56:27.750]  And good evening, you're on the air.
[56:28.010 --> 56:29.110]  No, not that one.
[56:29.110 --> 56:29.930]  Let's take a better one.
[56:30.650 --> 56:31.210]  Good evening.
[56:31.330 --> 56:31.770]  You're on the air.
[56:32.290 --> 56:32.690]  Hello.
[56:32.930 --> 56:33.270]  How are you doing?
[56:33.750 --> 56:35.070]  I'm going to give you a proposition.
[56:35.570 --> 56:39.910]  You have four guys on a videotape with the same kind of no rucksacks getting on a train.
[56:40.970 --> 56:49.070]  Now, it's very easy to make four individuals disappear and have the explosions happen and not necessarily them be tied together.
[56:49.270 --> 56:54.090]  You know, use the Lee Harvey Oswald model as your model here.
[56:54.230 --> 57:00.930]  See, get deep about it because just because they have those video cameras doesn't mean no information can't be manipulated.
[57:01.250 --> 57:02.070]  True, true.
[57:02.310 --> 57:03.570]  We're going to have to end it on that, sir.
[57:03.990 --> 57:04.150]  What?
[57:04.310 --> 57:05.250]  We're going to have to end it on that.
[57:05.290 --> 57:05.490]  Okay.
[57:05.710 --> 57:05.950]  Thanks.
[57:06.010 --> 57:06.650]  Thanks for your call.
[57:07.170 --> 57:08.790]  And that's going to end it for us here.
[57:09.130 --> 57:10.670]  Next week's going to be a very interesting show.
[57:11.010 --> 57:12.470]  I'll be on the Atlantic Ocean someplace.
[57:13.270 --> 57:16.870]  So, uh, I guess we'll, uh, we'll just see how it goes then.
[57:17.250 --> 57:18.350]  Red Heck, you'll be here engineering.
[57:18.630 --> 57:19.190]  I'll be here.
[57:19.390 --> 57:21.390]  Hopefully we'll be in, in, in capable hands.
[57:21.490 --> 57:22.130]  I hope so too.
[57:23.350 --> 57:24.690]  And I think everybody else will be here.
[57:24.790 --> 57:25.470]  I'll be the only one away.
[57:25.590 --> 57:26.090]  You won't be here?
[57:26.250 --> 57:26.350]  No.
[57:26.350 --> 57:28.110]  You'll be in Switzerland, won't you, Redbird?
[57:28.450 --> 57:28.710]  All right.
[57:28.810 --> 57:29.630]  But you won't be on the phone.
[57:29.730 --> 57:30.810]  You'll be on a plane probably, right?
[57:30.930 --> 57:31.470]  No, I'll be there.
[57:31.470 --> 57:31.850]  No, you'll be there by then.
[57:31.910 --> 57:33.290]  Okay, so maybe we'll hear from you as well.
[57:34.010 --> 57:34.450]  All right.
[57:34.630 --> 57:37.510]  Until then, write to us, OTH at 2600.com.
[57:37.750 --> 57:39.510]  Folks, please remember the fundraiser next week.
[57:39.510 --> 57:44.330]  If we can raise the money quickly, we can do the whole show uninterrupted and make it true history.
[57:45.550 --> 57:46.750]  That's it for Off the Hook this week.
[57:46.890 --> 57:48.270]  We'll see you in some form next week.
[57:48.370 --> 57:48.570]  Good night.
[58:20.230 --> 58:35.650]  We'll see you in some form next week.
[58:42.030 --> 58:44.630]  We can't go wrong.
[58:46.350 --> 58:49.290]  Cause the time has gone.
[58:49.470 --> 58:49.770]  Time
[58:53.000 --> 58:54.780]  has gone.
[58:56.300 --> 58:59.840]  You've been free, so you seem to do.
[59:13.520 --> 59:16.460]  He lived the life he loved, and he loved the life he lived.
[59:18.780 --> 59:22.420]  But my special impression of a popular man, DJ, you're so nice off the land.
[59:41.790 --> 59:42.910]  Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh.
[59:43.010 --> 59:46.130]  More than two billion people subsist on less than $2 a day.
[59:46.550 --> 59:47.330]  If we want to change...