[00:00.360 --> 00:02.500]  Hi, I'm Danny Glover.
[00:02.600 --> 00:03.820]  This is Saul Williams.
[00:04.080 --> 00:05.600]  And this is Michael Fry from Spearhead.
[00:05.780 --> 00:10.480]  And this is WBAI, listening-supported, non-commercial radio in New York.
[00:10.780 --> 00:13.460]  This is Reverend Jester Jackson of the Rainbow Push Coalition.
[00:13.760 --> 00:18.880]  Please call and support WBAI, non-commercial peace and justice radio in New York.
[00:35.920 --> 00:41.660]  And you're listening to 99.5 FM, WBAI, New York.
[00:41.920 --> 00:45.220]  It's 7 p.m., time for Off the Hook.
[01:42.820 --> 01:44.240]  And good evening, everyone.
[01:44.380 --> 01:45.720]  The program is Off the Hook.
[01:46.160 --> 01:48.260]  We're here in the WBAI studio.
[01:48.620 --> 01:49.440]  This is Red Hacked.
[01:49.880 --> 01:51.460]  I'm joined here by Jim.
[01:51.660 --> 01:51.900]  Hello.
[01:52.300 --> 01:52.980]  By Mike.
[01:53.200 --> 01:53.380]  Hi.
[01:53.940 --> 01:54.460]  Redbird.
[01:54.640 --> 01:54.940]  Good evening.
[01:55.280 --> 01:56.060]  And Arseny.
[01:56.220 --> 01:56.380]  Hi.
[01:57.040 --> 02:00.260]  And on the phone, we have Bernie S.
[02:00.340 --> 02:00.780]  in Philadelphia.
[02:01.240 --> 02:02.020]  Good evening.
[02:02.020 --> 02:06.300]  And Emmanuel, joining us from the Trans-Siberian Express.
[02:32.020 --> 02:33.440]  We've tested it out before the show.
[02:34.260 --> 02:35.660]  We've had good coverage.
[02:35.900 --> 02:38.460]  And hopefully we can make the entire show on GFM.
[02:38.580 --> 02:40.140]  I'm pretty baffled by that.
[02:40.540 --> 02:41.300]  Now, wait a minute.
[02:41.460 --> 02:44.780]  You said you're between Ekaterinburg and Irkutsk.
[02:45.020 --> 02:48.720]  If I recall my Russian geography, that's a couple of thousand miles.
[02:51.420 --> 02:53.500]  Where in that couple of thousand miles are you?
[02:55.200 --> 02:57.760]  I guess I should have been half a point.
[02:58.260 --> 02:59.800]  I could barely hear what you were saying, Jim.
[02:59.800 --> 03:03.680]  I said, you said you're between Ekaterinburg and Irkutsk.
[03:04.020 --> 03:07.800]  If I remember my Russian geography, that's about 2,000 miles.
[03:08.100 --> 03:09.160]  Where in there are you?
[03:09.660 --> 03:11.600]  That's why the trip will take about three days.
[03:11.800 --> 03:13.360]  We just got on the train a couple of hours ago.
[03:13.360 --> 03:14.600]  It's about five in the morning here.
[03:14.960 --> 03:17.920]  In fact, I can just see light appearing in the sky.
[03:18.520 --> 03:21.300]  And I figured, you know, that this was really the heart of it all.
[03:21.420 --> 03:27.860]  This is going to be the toughest show ever because it's really hard even to communicate on a satellite car because there's trees over here.
[03:28.020 --> 03:30.460]  I can't stick my head out the window of the train.
[03:30.700 --> 03:31.720]  It's got a good satellite signal.
[03:31.880 --> 03:35.320]  So, you know, there's still a good chance that I'll drop off the most of the program.
[03:35.440 --> 03:37.020]  I'm just happy to be able to hear your voices there.
[03:38.760 --> 03:41.880]  You could have gotten on the roof of the train.
[03:43.440 --> 03:45.200]  That's always an option, I suppose.
[03:45.460 --> 03:48.500]  Yeah, I could have gotten on a very local train, but then the trip would probably take in a couple of months.
[03:48.700 --> 03:52.680]  And, you know, I'm about as far away from home as I've ever been before.
[03:53.360 --> 03:57.420]  Right now, we're, what is it, 10 hours ahead of New York.
[03:57.880 --> 04:00.880]  By the time this particular leg of the trip is over, it'll be 13 hours.
[04:00.880 --> 04:08.740]  That's pretty far, and, you know, I'm missing New York a lot, and this is a great deal of fun before.
[04:08.900 --> 04:09.620]  This is a big planet.
[04:09.760 --> 04:10.560]  This is a big country.
[04:11.120 --> 04:12.760]  Russia is unbelievably huge.
[04:14.240 --> 04:15.180]  So they say.
[04:15.320 --> 04:16.000]  So they say.
[04:16.520 --> 04:19.860]  What are some of the things you've seen on your trip?
[04:21.180 --> 04:24.420]  Well, I spent some time in Moscow, not nearly enough time.
[04:25.700 --> 04:29.260]  And basically, we just kind of wandered around the city, met up with some friends there.
[04:30.420 --> 04:36.600]  And spent the last day or so in Yekaterinburg, which is a city I didn't even know about before this trip.
[04:37.200 --> 04:38.760]  It's kind of an industrial center.
[04:39.300 --> 04:42.900]  It's also where the Tsar happened to be murdered, and they're very proud of that.
[04:43.380 --> 04:44.860]  Actually, they're not very proud of that.
[04:44.940 --> 04:46.580]  But, you know, it's a bit of history.
[04:47.360 --> 04:52.420]  Didn't they dig up the Tsar's bones there about 10 years ago, finally found them?
[04:52.980 --> 04:53.880]  Yeah, they did that.
[04:53.940 --> 04:57.340]  They sent them parcel posts, I think, to Moscow or something for a proper burial.
[04:58.620 --> 04:59.560]  They're very sweet.
[04:59.840 --> 05:00.280]  They're very sweet.
[05:00.300 --> 05:01.600]  Yeah, well, something like that.
[05:01.720 --> 05:06.840]  But in any event, in case you're wondering what in God's name I'm doing out here, this is part of my round-the-world expedition.
[05:06.840 --> 05:11.040]  I started in New York on July 17th, but went over to England.
[05:11.800 --> 05:17.800]  And since I've been in London, Amsterdam, the what-the-hat concept of the question as well.
[05:18.540 --> 05:22.760]  And then over to Berlin, Warsaw, Minsk, Moscow, and now on the train.
[05:23.580 --> 05:23.920]  Wow.
[05:24.500 --> 05:25.540]  What's it like on the train?
[05:26.460 --> 05:27.400]  It's really nice.
[05:27.620 --> 05:28.960]  You get these little compartments.
[05:29.080 --> 05:30.800]  I'm here with our friend Hanukkah and Sasha.
[05:31.540 --> 05:33.120]  Compartments generally hold four people.
[05:33.280 --> 05:35.120]  There's two sets of bunk beds on each side.
[05:35.340 --> 05:36.240]  And it's very cozy.
[05:36.360 --> 05:38.680]  It's a little chilly, actually, but it's usually pretty cozy.
[05:39.600 --> 05:44.740]  And people, you know, read, they sleep, they talk, they wander around the train.
[05:45.360 --> 05:46.220]  It's great fun.
[05:46.240 --> 05:49.720]  I totally recommend it for anybody who's never done something like this before.
[05:49.900 --> 05:51.260]  I'm certainly having a great time.
[05:51.260 --> 05:58.900]  And ask me in another week after, you know, being on two more of these trains, I think I'll still be enjoying it by then.
[05:59.600 --> 06:02.380]  Are you making many stops and how's the food and everything?
[06:02.740 --> 06:03.440]  Well, yeah.
[06:03.580 --> 06:05.040]  It does make a few hours.
[06:05.220 --> 06:13.700]  Every time it does, there are all these local merchants who come out and sell everything imaginable from giant vases to chocolate bars to ice cream to fruit.
[06:14.400 --> 06:15.740]  And this is their livelihood.
[06:15.920 --> 06:16.540]  This is what they do.
[06:16.640 --> 06:20.440]  They greet the train full of strangers and sell their wares.
[06:20.800 --> 06:22.200]  And just to watch.
[06:24.260 --> 06:27.000]  I imagine you have to buy something or you might starve.
[06:27.580 --> 06:29.560]  Well, I mean, it's nice to.
[06:29.800 --> 06:32.280]  I mean, it's nice to be, but I'm so nervous.
[06:37.400 --> 06:40.880]  Well, that was a very interesting reply in Russian, I presume.
[06:40.880 --> 06:42.220]  What did you say?
[06:46.380 --> 06:50.640]  Sounds like you're in the fringe reception area, as they say.
[06:52.160 --> 06:58.100]  Maybe we should switch to some news stories unless you can become more audible.
[06:58.480 --> 06:58.660]  All right.
[07:03.780 --> 07:06.320]  We'll pick up a new cell site any moment now.
[07:07.560 --> 07:10.400]  Doubtless the Russian countryside is strewn with them.
[07:12.160 --> 07:12.720]  All right.
[07:12.840 --> 07:14.620]  Well, let's move to some news stories for now.
[07:15.840 --> 07:17.180]  Mike, did you have anything you wanted to talk about?
[07:17.520 --> 07:17.760]  Sure.
[07:17.940 --> 07:18.520]  We have...
[07:18.520 --> 07:31.060]  We'll start with this story about our old friends at the Federal Communications Commission who have decreed that DSL is now an information service instead of a telecommunication service.
[07:31.300 --> 07:33.100]  And that doesn't really mean very much.
[07:33.100 --> 07:42.280]  But what it means is that telcos, local telecom monopolies like Verizon, are no longer required to...
[07:42.280 --> 07:44.880]  That seems to be the end of the manual.
[07:45.800 --> 07:59.720]  Speaking of telecommunications, local telecom monopolies are no longer required to permit competition or to have competition in the DSL marketplace.
[07:59.720 --> 08:04.880]  So currently, you can get DSL, you can get DSL over your Verizon line from a number of carriers.
[08:05.340 --> 08:09.960]  Now, Verizon will no longer be required to support that.
[08:10.120 --> 08:10.680]  This is...
[08:10.680 --> 08:14.140]  Echo is a similar decision that cable...
[08:14.140 --> 08:17.480]  The cable internet is also an information service.
[08:17.740 --> 08:21.660]  So it's really reducing competition in the broadband market.
[08:22.360 --> 08:31.340]  One of the more bizarre things is that they somehow think that this decision is going to increase the availability of broadband.
[08:31.340 --> 08:32.400]  They're very concerned.
[08:32.660 --> 08:41.840]  The United States has fallen to 16th in the broadband access per capita list.
[08:42.060 --> 08:46.720]  And somehow they think that having less broadband will improve our position on that list.
[08:46.800 --> 08:47.720]  It's a little strange.
[08:47.720 --> 08:48.540]  I don't get it.
[08:48.540 --> 08:50.460]  But that's the FCC for you.
[08:50.880 --> 08:55.940]  So it'll be interesting to see how the DSL marketplace evolves.
[08:56.160 --> 08:56.960]  How does that go?
[08:56.960 --> 09:01.580]  Is there any information as to what happens to customers already using alternative providers?
[09:02.040 --> 09:03.320]  You're one of them, right?
[09:03.900 --> 09:05.820]  No, I have cable, actually.
[09:06.040 --> 09:08.720]  But there's a one-year transitional period.
[09:11.220 --> 09:11.700]  Which...
[09:11.700 --> 09:13.320]  And it doesn't say what happens after that.
[09:13.580 --> 09:13.900]  Ah, okay.
[09:13.900 --> 09:14.320]  So we'll...
[09:14.320 --> 09:15.280]  Well, we'll have to see.
[09:15.280 --> 09:15.900]  We'll find out.
[09:17.800 --> 09:19.480]  We have more news, I guess.
[09:20.460 --> 09:28.500]  There's this interesting story about a bunch of kids in school in Cootstown, Pennsylvania.
[09:29.000 --> 09:34.320]  And it seems like they were issued school laptops and played around with them a little bit.
[09:34.760 --> 09:43.340]  And ironically, or maybe not so much, the administrative password was written on the back of either one of these machines or one of the other machines.
[09:43.840 --> 09:45.600]  Either way, it was very accessible to the students.
[09:45.620 --> 09:45.700]  Wait, wait.
[09:45.700 --> 09:47.260]  It was written on the back of the machine?
[09:47.460 --> 09:49.340]  I'm not sure if it was the machines that they were issued.
[09:49.440 --> 09:54.060]  But one of the machines, supposedly the password, the administrative password was written on the back of it.
[09:54.060 --> 10:02.220]  And this spread around the school and a bunch of the kids obviously had administrative access on the computers that they were issued.
[10:02.440 --> 10:07.440]  And they did, you know, such harsh things as installing iChat and whatnot.
[10:07.440 --> 10:10.900]  And now they're being charged with felonies.
[10:11.300 --> 10:14.620]  They call them the Kutztown... I don't know if I'm pronouncing that correctly.
[10:14.840 --> 10:16.200]  The Kutztown 13.
[10:18.100 --> 10:18.840]  Kutztown 13.
[10:18.840 --> 10:20.480]  I have a lot of documents.
[10:20.840 --> 10:27.900]  Well, what Redbird didn't mention was that they were actually spying on their fellow teachers and things.
[10:27.900 --> 10:33.660]  But that's still not enough to, you know, make this such a big deal.
[10:34.280 --> 10:38.660]  Kids in the school I went to in Montvale, they also got laptops and they played around with them.
[10:38.760 --> 10:41.840]  And, you know, they played their Counter-Strike and chatted on AIM and stuff.
[10:41.960 --> 10:43.220]  But they're not felons.
[10:45.000 --> 10:46.700]  Well, they're tampering with the property.
[10:46.700 --> 10:47.120]  Yeah, I know.
[10:47.120 --> 10:49.340]  But, I mean, what do you expect when you give toys to students?
[10:49.560 --> 10:50.140]  No, it's true.
[10:50.320 --> 10:53.120]  And none of this seems felony worthy since they didn't...
[10:53.120 --> 10:57.340]  I mean, I don't know what law they broke and entered into the property.
[10:58.060 --> 11:11.240]  There's apparently a letter from the Kutztown Borough Police Department saying that they have violated Pennsylvania Crimes Code Section 7615, which is called Computer Trespass.
[11:12.460 --> 11:18.180]  And that's a felony, which is kind of the strange part about it all.
[11:19.300 --> 11:22.340]  Well, I thought one of the quotes by one of the kids was kind of funny.
[11:22.700 --> 11:27.820]  He said, There are a lot of adults who go 10 miles over the speed limit or don't come to a complete stop at a stop sign.
[11:27.900 --> 11:29.680]  They know it's not right, but they expect a fine.
[11:29.760 --> 11:37.260]  And this is in response to one of the prosecutors, I suppose, saying that they knew exactly what they were doing, which I suppose is right.
[11:37.260 --> 11:45.780]  But, you know, when you're playing with this stuff and you have the access available to you and all you want to do is install software on a machine that was issued to you and you have the administrative password and whatnot.
[11:45.780 --> 11:50.260]  And, I mean, how could you possibly tell that this is going to be a felony?
[11:50.880 --> 11:52.540]  It just seems completely absurd.
[11:52.780 --> 11:54.520]  It exceeds the...
[11:55.160 --> 11:57.180]  The punishment exceeds the crime, it seems.
[11:58.740 --> 12:02.300]  Of course, there's nothing at all atypical about this.
[12:02.300 --> 12:10.100]  We are moving, as they say, swiftly down the road of 1984.
[12:11.400 --> 12:14.720]  This is an opinion also shared by James C.
[12:14.840 --> 12:21.420]  Nelson, who is a justice in the Supreme Court of the state of Montana, I believe.
[12:21.420 --> 12:29.500]  And what's interesting about his opinion that he wrote is that he says it's okay for the police to go through people's trash.
[12:29.720 --> 12:35.160]  And then he says that... he says, quote, I don't like living in Orwell's 1984, but I do.
[12:36.000 --> 12:38.260]  And, therefore, he's not willing to stop it.
[12:38.360 --> 12:42.640]  It's a very strange decision that he wrote or a concurrence.
[12:42.980 --> 12:46.260]  This is in a case, as I said, in Montana.
[12:48.100 --> 12:50.840]  We had Emmanuel there for a second, but apparently we lost him.
[12:51.420 --> 12:52.820]  All right, I'll try and get him on the line again.
[12:53.640 --> 12:53.960]  Okay.
[12:56.540 --> 13:01.320]  The state of Montana has ruled that it's okay to search through people's garbage.
[13:01.560 --> 13:02.960]  There was this long decision.
[13:03.260 --> 13:06.860]  And then there was this really bizarre decision by James C.
[13:06.940 --> 13:18.080]  Nelson, where he says in the first sentence, I have signed our opinion because we have correctly applied existing legal theory and constitutional jurisprudence to resolve this case on its facts.
[13:18.080 --> 13:28.540]  But then he spends the next 10, 15 paragraphs saying how bad this is, which is not something judges usually do.
[13:28.800 --> 13:33.480]  Well, are they actually going onto your property, taking your garbage, and then searching it?
[13:33.520 --> 13:36.300]  Or are they, you know, taking it from the garbage truck?
[13:36.580 --> 13:38.160]  It's not really clear.
[13:38.460 --> 13:45.020]  The ruling is that there's no reasonable expectation of privacy in one's garbage.
[13:45.020 --> 13:48.100]  A number of jurisdictions have held this for years.
[13:48.100 --> 13:52.060]  This is how the tabloids often get stuff.
[13:52.220 --> 13:59.500]  Once you put it out on the street for garbage pickup, you no longer have any ownership of it or expectation of privacy.
[13:59.740 --> 14:05.760]  Of course, there are often laws that prohibit people from going through the garbage, but those tend to be just misdemeanors.
[14:06.100 --> 14:14.300]  So those people who most of us know about dumpster diving, which is when you go through, say, a corporation's garbage to find printed lists of passwords or whatever.
[14:14.500 --> 14:15.680]  Depends on where the dumpster is.
[14:15.760 --> 14:16.000]  Right.
[14:16.140 --> 14:17.900]  It may not apply because it's private property.
[14:18.080 --> 14:19.060]  You may lock them usually.
[14:19.120 --> 14:20.580]  The dumpster may also be private.
[14:20.580 --> 14:21.900]  That may affect it as well.
[14:21.900 --> 14:26.340]  So if I leave the garbage on the curb, then it's public property and anyone can look through it.
[14:26.380 --> 14:29.340]  But if I leave it in my driveway, then the garbage man won't walk five feet to pick it up, right?
[14:29.820 --> 14:30.760]  That's what it seems like.
[14:31.080 --> 14:37.680]  But, I mean, where I live, if you put it next to your house and they have to walk, you know, the ten feet to get there, they can do that.
[14:37.840 --> 14:38.820]  But can the police do that?
[14:39.800 --> 14:40.640]  Police can do it.
[14:40.640 --> 14:57.280]  I mean, I think there's a difference between random dumpster divers, you know, taking your thrown-out electronics or there's a huge community of folks in New York who eat based on what grocery stores actually throw away.
[14:57.720 --> 14:59.160]  See, I attempted to do this.
[14:59.420 --> 14:59.600]  Yeah.
[14:59.720 --> 15:00.880]  One day I attempted to do this.
[15:00.960 --> 15:04.720]  I did my research, and there's a lot of stuff that people throw out that I would love to eat.
[15:05.240 --> 15:06.100]  Well, why don't you?
[15:06.640 --> 15:07.300]  Oh, I don't know.
[15:07.300 --> 15:08.560]  I usually tend to buy it.
[15:08.560 --> 15:10.440]  But it's not as rotten then, you know.
[15:12.160 --> 15:18.820]  But I think there's a clear difference between something like that and something like the police going through your trash for purposes of an investigation.
[15:19.280 --> 15:21.280]  Well, what about if they want to, you know, eat my food?
[15:21.660 --> 15:25.060]  If the police want to eat your food, I'm fine with that.
[15:25.060 --> 15:31.300]  I think the point here is whether or not other people's trash should be admissible as evidence and if you need a search warrant to go through it.
[15:31.880 --> 15:36.440]  So I guess if you're eating it, well, you're not searching for evidence.
[15:36.660 --> 15:37.000]  I don't know.
[15:37.660 --> 15:38.080]  Emmanuel...
[15:38.080 --> 15:38.980]  I have something to add on this.
[15:39.160 --> 15:39.400]  Okay.
[15:39.800 --> 15:41.740]  Have we talked about the IMC space yet?
[15:41.760 --> 15:43.120]  Yeah, let's talk about the IMC thing.
[15:43.840 --> 15:44.040]  Okay.
[15:44.240 --> 15:46.280]  Because I have a story here, actually.
[15:46.720 --> 15:49.980]  Sorry, I was away for a while because the reception here is pretty bad, actually.
[15:50.680 --> 15:59.200]  But if you recall, a few months ago, IMC servers in England were seized, allegedly by the government.
[15:59.420 --> 16:07.940]  It turns out that the government simply asked for logs and Rackspace, their hosting provider, turned over everything.
[16:07.940 --> 16:12.580]  I think that's a very scary thing when a provider just panics like that.
[16:12.900 --> 16:14.280]  This was in the UK, yes?
[16:15.060 --> 16:15.700]  Yeah.
[16:18.540 --> 16:20.180]  It is a little strange.
[16:20.680 --> 16:27.280]  This is the Rackspace who, I think, said at the time, they were just trying to be a good corporate citizen.
[16:28.180 --> 16:28.660]  Right.
[16:28.820 --> 16:31.360]  If I can read from the EFF press release on this.
[16:31.860 --> 16:40.400]  EFF has worn a motion allowing it to access sealed court documents about the mysterious disappearance of two web servers used to host News website for IndyMedia.
[16:40.860 --> 16:49.900]  After six months of secret litigation, EFF obtained a copy of the federal court order as a result of the October 2004 handover of copies of IndyMedia servers to the government.
[16:50.900 --> 16:52.360]  Wait, secret litigation?
[16:53.700 --> 16:57.140]  Yeah, well, you know, we're at war, so all kinds of things like that are possible.
[16:57.720 --> 17:02.680]  The unsealed documents reveal that the government never officially demanded the computer servers.
[17:02.800 --> 17:06.560]  The subpoena to Rackspace only requested server log files.
[17:06.780 --> 17:12.880]  This contradicts previous statements by the web host that it took the servers offline because the government had demanded the hardware.
[17:12.880 --> 17:24.780]  And that kind of thing really disturbs me because it just shows how people are reacting to their perception of government intrusions.
[17:25.120 --> 17:26.480]  They do the work for them.
[17:26.640 --> 17:28.080]  It's really sad.
[17:28.360 --> 17:33.880]  Now, what happens in the case when the server doesn't have any logs is in the case of, I believe, the New York City IndyMedia?
[17:34.100 --> 17:37.460]  Yeah, most IndyMedia sites don't keep logs.
[17:38.320 --> 17:42.040]  So they really didn't get what they asked for in this case.
[17:42.380 --> 17:43.340]  They didn't get anything they wanted.
[17:43.480 --> 17:44.760]  They just took the site down.
[17:47.280 --> 17:50.860]  So anyway, hats off to BFF for finding out that information.
[17:51.120 --> 17:54.760]  And I don't know what this New York City IndyMedia is going to take any action against Rackspace.
[17:54.900 --> 17:55.680]  I sort of hope they do.
[17:56.800 --> 18:02.880]  Unfortunately, it looks like the only solution to this is to host your own stuff, which is way too expensive for most people.
[18:02.980 --> 18:04.200]  Oh, no, they did host their own stuff.
[18:04.320 --> 18:07.640]  They had their own computer and they had it in a rack, at Rackspace.
[18:08.380 --> 18:12.460]  I think the Redbird means is host your own stuff, your own hackles.
[18:13.500 --> 18:28.220]  But, of course, then you have collocation, especially something like an IndyMedia company that I don't know how much money they have available to them, but collocation is always cheaper than having, you know, a T3 run to your house, especially dependent upon the demand on the server and on the bandwidth.
[18:28.840 --> 18:31.220]  Well, one good solution is mirrored all of it.
[18:36.440 --> 18:38.300]  Could you repeat that?
[18:46.980 --> 18:48.600]  One more time.
[18:48.800 --> 18:49.320]  We didn't hear that.
[18:49.740 --> 18:51.740]  All right.
[18:52.300 --> 19:00.120]  I'm hearing that the MTA is keeping a database of people that are being searched or have been represented for taking pictures.
[19:02.040 --> 19:03.240]  Redbird, have you heard anything about that?
[19:03.380 --> 19:03.980]  No, I haven't.
[19:04.120 --> 19:06.420]  I didn't fully hear the question, but I don't...
[19:06.420 --> 19:09.880]  The MTA has a database of people that get searched.
[19:10.140 --> 19:12.060]  I think that's what he's talking about.
[19:12.100 --> 19:13.180]  Oh, I have no idea.
[19:14.460 --> 19:14.920]  I have no idea.
[19:14.920 --> 19:15.760]  Not a reason to say no.
[19:16.500 --> 19:16.900]  Absolutely.
[19:17.040 --> 19:18.880]  I think we should emphasize that again.
[19:19.520 --> 19:25.000]  If you're being searched in the New York City subway, you really do have the right to say no and walk out.
[19:25.420 --> 19:26.960]  Has anyone else been searched?
[19:27.280 --> 19:28.540]  I have yet to be searched.
[19:28.540 --> 19:33.620]  Then I come, you know, I ride the subway many days of the week and I haven't seen a police officer.
[19:33.700 --> 19:34.600]  And during rush hour, too.
[19:35.380 --> 19:40.140]  It's interesting because I was watching some Russian TV and they were showing this video.
[19:40.140 --> 19:42.800]  It's just kind of a clip of everything that was messed up with America.
[19:43.020 --> 19:43.540]  It's kind of interesting.
[19:44.000 --> 19:47.840]  And they actually did show people being searched in the subway.
[19:48.660 --> 19:53.140]  And what's interesting about the way they showed it was that the people were clearly in the system.
[19:53.140 --> 19:54.020]  They were not interns.
[19:54.300 --> 19:55.820]  They were already past the turnstiles.
[19:56.100 --> 20:00.880]  Now, that goes directly opposite what I've been told, that they're only searching people before they get in.
[20:01.480 --> 20:02.700]  What's your experience with that?
[20:02.860 --> 20:10.440]  The two times that I've seen police in the subway searching people, one time they stopped me and I told them to...
[20:10.440 --> 20:13.120]  I told them something that can't be repeated on the air.
[20:13.260 --> 20:15.740]  And the other time, they did not select me.
[20:16.200 --> 20:18.960]  Both cases, they were before the turnstiles.
[20:18.960 --> 20:23.520]  So I can't say that that's universal, but it fits with my experience.
[20:23.740 --> 20:24.560]  It seems pretty ridiculous.
[20:25.120 --> 20:27.600]  It's worth noting that if there's a...
[20:27.600 --> 20:40.700]  unless there's a sign before you enter the train or the ferry or whatever mass transit vehicle you're boarding, unless there's a sign at the entrance saying that when you enter, that constitutes consent of the search...
[20:40.700 --> 20:42.360]  consent of the search of yourself.
[20:42.580 --> 20:44.180]  Wait, I don't think a sign makes it okay.
[20:44.760 --> 20:45.540]  No, it does.
[20:46.500 --> 20:50.980]  Maybe legally, I don't think it's morally okay.
[20:51.280 --> 20:56.420]  I'm just saying from a legal standpoint only because that's really the only legs we have to stand on, legality here.
[20:56.860 --> 21:07.200]  If, unless there's a posting before you get on the vehicle saying that boarding this vehicle you consent to a search, then you are not allowed to be searched without your consent on the vehicle.
[21:07.620 --> 21:09.520]  That's just constitutional law.
[21:09.680 --> 21:11.240]  I believe I've seen such signs.
[21:11.460 --> 21:11.980]  Sorry, Emmanuel.
[21:12.320 --> 21:20.900]  How hard do you think that would be for the whole night to consider something on their entrance which is saying you consent to search everything you enter in?
[21:21.840 --> 21:25.420]  Well, I believe I've seen a sign in the token booths.
[21:25.440 --> 21:28.840]  I believe this one was at 42nd Street but I'm not sure about that.
[21:28.940 --> 21:35.640]  That did say that be advised that police have the right to search through your bags before entering the subway.
[21:35.840 --> 21:43.300]  The trains also say I was on the L train and the L train told me that if being on the system I consented to a search.
[21:43.700 --> 21:49.260]  Every subway entrance I've been to they write it on the whiteboard in the back of the token booths.
[21:49.280 --> 21:51.240]  We should make sure we take a photo of that.
[21:51.540 --> 22:05.380]  As far as the database goes I do know that the NYPD is keeping track of the sex, race, and approximate age of everyone they search in order to combat any potential charge of racial profiling.
[22:05.620 --> 22:23.400]  For a while illegally on the first or second day that they were doing this at one subway station I believe it was in the Bronx they actually took IDs and copied down names and addresses but a superior officer lieutenant or higher saw this going on and stopped it.
[22:24.580 --> 22:26.900]  Those police they're always trying so hard.
[22:27.060 --> 22:41.880]  Well I had this idea I think that someone should get like a jumpsuit and sew a bag into it so you couldn't actually put anything in or take anything out of it without taking all your clothes off without taking the jumpsuit off so when you get searched you would have to get strip searched too.
[22:41.880 --> 22:43.200]  I think someone should do that.
[22:43.480 --> 22:45.880]  Well actually Why don't you try it and let us know.
[22:45.880 --> 22:46.500]  I think I will.
[22:46.620 --> 22:46.840]  Alright.
[22:47.180 --> 22:57.820]  Somebody mentioned that saying that you're being searched for bombs but then being arrested if you have a gun or drugs or whatever sounds good but then reverse it.
[22:57.960 --> 23:07.520]  Say that you're searching people for drugs and you'll be arrested if you have a gun or a bomb or whatever and of course immediately that becomes that raises the hackles on civil libertarians.
[23:08.080 --> 23:14.980]  So I was thinking you know what you should do I think all respectable civil libertarians are already their ire is already raised.
[23:15.120 --> 23:15.260]  Yes.
[23:15.440 --> 23:15.880]  I agree.
[23:16.320 --> 23:38.060]  I'd just like to mention that The Voice ran an article about the subway searches we received an email about this and there were many responses to their article most of them angry saying well you should you know welcome the searches because they're you know helping you and all this but not one of those responses came from someone who lived in New York City they're from Oregon Texas places like that
[23:38.060 --> 23:58.900]  so I'd like to hear when people start calling what their opinion is about this subway this whole subway business just get a feel of what the New York population thinks about it and where they live yes I think it's pretty clear that the folks who are outraged are not the ones who live in New York because the people who live in New York the article was someone's printing t-shirts that say I do not
[23:58.900 --> 24:04.840]  consent to a search And apparently people in Oregon or wherever are highly outraged by this.
[24:05.000 --> 24:13.000]  But people who live here in New York know that they shouldn't consent to a search because they know just how ineffective these searches are.
[24:13.360 --> 24:18.780]  They search maybe one person in a hundred or a thousand or however few they search.
[24:19.160 --> 24:29.920]  And then even those people, if there were an actual criminal who happened to walk by, the criminal would just leave and it would be only searching innocent people the whole time.
[24:30.500 --> 24:34.000]  Hey, can I just break in here for a second just to say I'm on a satellite phone now?
[24:34.240 --> 24:34.800]  How do I sound?
[24:34.860 --> 24:35.440]  Do I sound any better?
[24:35.540 --> 24:37.100]  We can hear the train a lot clearer.
[24:38.360 --> 24:39.660]  Well, that's what's important, isn't it?
[24:39.660 --> 24:43.600]  I am on the Trans-Siberian Express after all, so I apologize for all the dropouts.
[24:43.800 --> 24:46.260]  But, you know, it is the Trans-Siberian Express.
[24:46.500 --> 24:48.840]  If you're going to get a dropout anywhere, I think this would be the place.
[24:49.360 --> 24:52.920]  Well, you sound a little bit metallic, but overall much, much clearer.
[24:53.520 --> 24:55.960]  Well, I'm going into outer space, Jim, and I'm coming back.
[24:56.120 --> 24:57.640]  That's what happens on the satellite.
[24:57.840 --> 24:59.280]  And, of course, you'll get a delay.
[24:59.840 --> 25:06.020]  It's a lot more expensive, but it's worth the cost in order to keep in touch with all my friends back in New York.
[25:06.360 --> 25:06.800]  Yep.
[25:07.280 --> 25:15.640]  We're talking about the searches of the subway system right now, and I just wanted to bring up a different article regarding, well, less searching, I would feel.
[25:15.840 --> 25:22.640]  It's about how they're starting to test this new RFID system at the border between Canada and the United States.
[25:23.540 --> 25:30.800]  They started last week at the Thousand Island Bridge Crossing, and the idea behind it is it's going to ease...
[25:30.800 --> 25:32.780]  Where is the Thousand Island Bridge Crossing?
[25:32.920 --> 25:34.140]  It is in...
[25:34.140 --> 25:35.560]  I believe it's in New York.
[25:35.700 --> 25:36.000]  Yeah.
[25:36.340 --> 25:37.040]  Near Watertown.
[25:37.060 --> 25:37.700]  I think it's Toronto.
[25:38.060 --> 25:38.820]  I think it's Toronto.
[25:38.860 --> 25:39.420]  I'm not sure.
[25:39.540 --> 25:41.560]  Well, it would be the border, so it would be from one...
[25:41.560 --> 25:42.540]  No, it wouldn't be...
[25:42.540 --> 25:46.180]  Number one, Toronto is 40 miles from the border near Niagara Falls.
[25:46.500 --> 25:48.680]  Oh, that's what I mean, Niagara Falls, that area.
[25:49.320 --> 25:50.680]  No, that would be the Peace Bridge.
[25:50.860 --> 25:51.500]  All right, I'm sorry.
[25:51.500 --> 25:54.000]  Well, regardless, they're starting testing...
[25:54.000 --> 25:54.640]  That's the Peace Bridge.
[25:55.220 --> 25:58.520]  They're starting testing this RFID system that would basically...
[25:58.520 --> 26:02.200]  The idea is, it says here, the new technology could help relieve congestion at border crossings.
[26:02.360 --> 26:12.700]  The idea is it would be like an E-ZPass system where when you first come to the country, you'd receive this tag, and then you could just whiz through the border holding your tag up to check into the United States.
[26:12.700 --> 26:18.560]  So, this leaves me asking, well, what would keep someone else from using this to...
[26:18.560 --> 26:20.520]  It says here that the idea...
[26:20.520 --> 26:21.020]  Let's see.
[26:22.900 --> 26:26.920]  The antennas can read tags from up to 30 feet away and recognize many tags simultaneously, Wright said.
[26:27.320 --> 26:30.920]  Ideally, travelers will be able to flash them going by at highway speeds.
[26:31.320 --> 26:39.720]  So, it leaves me asking, well, if they're going by at highway speeds, how do you know that they're the person who got the tag in the first place and not someone else or someone wearing a mask or who knows what?
[26:40.220 --> 26:42.660]  So, I don't understand how this is going to help at all.
[26:42.760 --> 26:54.840]  And I don't think, especially the way we treat people coming into the country by making them leave fingerprints and iris scans and all that, that the customs officials are going to ease up at all and let people fly through at highway speeds.
[26:54.960 --> 26:57.200]  Maybe the tag will be implanted under the skin.
[26:58.020 --> 26:58.460]  Maybe.
[26:58.680 --> 27:01.660]  The American Civil Rights Union has also expressed some concern over that.
[27:01.780 --> 27:09.180]  The program would violate emergency rights for third country nationals to fall under program.
[27:10.620 --> 27:13.040]  So, apparently, it makes it easier for them to be targeted.
[27:14.780 --> 27:15.160]  Right.
[27:15.440 --> 27:22.340]  And also, if they wanted to stop you for some reason and you flew by at highway speeds, would they have to chase after you to catch you?
[27:22.460 --> 27:24.220]  I don't understand the system at all.
[27:24.300 --> 27:30.640]  I think it's kind of funny that all this expensive, invasive technology is actually making things less secure.
[27:31.140 --> 27:32.860]  Well, it's easy the way it works now.
[27:32.980 --> 27:35.160]  I mean, you just drive up there showing your passport and drive by.
[27:35.160 --> 27:41.480]  I mean, yeah, you stop for like 10 minutes, but, you know, it's good because then people don't bring bombs in or out or whatever.
[27:42.060 --> 27:43.460]  Well, that's another topic.
[27:45.920 --> 27:48.660]  Emmanuel, were you searched on the Trans-Siberian Express?
[27:49.360 --> 27:54.000]  I have not been searched once in my entire trip since leaving from the port of New York.
[27:54.300 --> 27:55.640]  I've been kicked out of lots of places.
[27:55.660 --> 27:57.180]  I was kicked out of the underground in London.
[27:57.180 --> 27:59.520]  I was kicked out of Red Square the other day.
[27:59.780 --> 28:00.800]  Boy, that was something else.
[28:01.380 --> 28:09.460]  And you can hear the details of that on Off the Wall, our sister show on WUSB, which is archived online on our website, www.2080.com.
[28:10.280 --> 28:12.800]  So, you know, no searches, but some harassment.
[28:12.800 --> 28:14.860]  And a lot of it comes from holding a big microphone.
[28:16.120 --> 28:17.420]  People get scared when you do that.
[28:17.500 --> 28:18.180]  They think you're...
[28:18.180 --> 28:19.100]  I don't know what it is.
[28:19.120 --> 28:19.740]  I really don't.
[28:19.800 --> 28:21.480]  Because, you know, you can hold a camcorder.
[28:21.580 --> 28:22.160]  That's not a problem.
[28:22.160 --> 28:25.680]  But take out a microphone and wham-ah, all the authority figures are on top of you.
[28:26.320 --> 28:26.880]  Yeah.
[28:27.380 --> 28:31.140]  Speaking of crazy security techniques, a U.S.
[28:31.420 --> 28:42.160]  defense contractor has come up with a way to detect cell phone numbers by emulating a cell phone tower and essentially blocking all the other signals.
[28:42.560 --> 28:49.320]  And what they do is they place this device over suspect packages or baggage or whatever.
[28:49.320 --> 28:56.420]  And any cell phone in there supposedly associates itself with this device, you know, revealing all the information about the phone.
[28:56.640 --> 29:00.380]  And somehow this is supposed to make air travel more secure, I believe.
[29:01.120 --> 29:02.720]  Bernie, do you have any information on this?
[29:03.460 --> 29:06.700]  Well, one of our listeners sent us information about that.
[29:06.840 --> 29:08.200]  I think it was more to...
[29:08.720 --> 29:19.060]  If you found a suspect phone that was sort of in a briefcase, like the London bombs, where the bombs in the London Underground that exploded about a month or so ago.
[29:19.060 --> 29:22.280]  So those apparently used cell phones attached to explosives.
[29:22.280 --> 29:31.340]  And a lot of people assumed that these phones were sort of like remote triggering devices, like somebody far away called these phones and set them off at the right moment.
[29:31.680 --> 29:39.240]  And anybody who knows anything about radio or RF or telecommunications would realize that these cell phones were used as timers.
[29:39.420 --> 29:44.900]  And just as simple electronic timers, like you set your cell phone to send off an alarm in an hour or whatever.
[29:44.900 --> 29:46.360]  That's how they were used.
[29:46.580 --> 29:59.740]  So this method that this defense contractor, Raytheon, is saying, well, if you find a bomb attached to a cell phone, instead of worrying about somebody calling it and detonating the bomb, you could turn this external device on.
[30:00.080 --> 30:04.560]  It would fool the cell phone into talking with their product.
[30:05.660 --> 30:10.780]  So it wouldn't listen for the signal coming in from an external caller.
[30:10.820 --> 30:12.940]  It would just listen to the fake cell site.
[30:13.600 --> 30:16.000]  That's really a bogus security technique.
[30:16.280 --> 30:25.780]  If the cell phone is set to be a timer and not even listening for cell phone calls, it's just going to go off in so many minutes, then this device from Raytheon isn't going to do any good at all.
[30:25.980 --> 30:35.860]  So it's another situation where you've got a defense contractor trying to sell a device that's not going to increase security, really, at all, and it's really just going to collect information about people instead.
[30:36.080 --> 30:40.420]  Just to play the devil's advocate for a minute, couldn't it theoretically be used, though, if someone...
[30:40.420 --> 30:43.720]  Most GSM phones need to have a SIM in them when you...
[30:43.720 --> 30:47.780]  when they're on in order to operate, and probably even as an alarm clock.
[30:48.160 --> 30:51.900]  So wouldn't this be useful if, you know, they could find out whose phone it was?
[30:52.100 --> 31:01.880]  If they knew it was a bomb for some reason, they could find out whose phone it was and track them based on their SIM, rather than, you know, just letting it go and detonating it somewhere.
[31:02.060 --> 31:22.700]  Yeah, but if the bomb is on the table, connected to the cell phone, and you're worried about doing something, you're worried about it receiving the deadly phone call that's going to set it off, this isn't going to affect that situation, because these cell phone bombs were not designed to receive phone calls and then trigger upon receipt of the deadly phone call.
[31:22.700 --> 31:31.080]  They were set as electronic timers, which no external device is going to really affect the phone's working properly as an electronic timer.
[31:31.260 --> 31:33.000]  We know that, and we agree with that.
[31:33.100 --> 31:43.000]  No, what we're getting at is, wouldn't this device be able to pick up the phone number of the cell phone, a little more bit of intelligence, to trace it back to the punitive bomber?
[31:43.500 --> 31:46.940]  Sure, but you can buy... anybody can buy anonymous cell phones for cash.
[31:47.720 --> 31:54.520]  You know, I very much doubt many of these cell phones, these terrorist cell phones are actually registered to the terrorists.
[31:54.780 --> 31:55.920]  I mean, there might be, but...
[31:55.920 --> 31:56.540]  Well, some are.
[31:56.680 --> 31:57.220]  Some are.
[31:57.340 --> 31:57.900]  Some are.
[31:57.960 --> 31:58.160]  You're right.
[31:58.160 --> 32:01.200]  They tracked that guy going to, I guess, was it Rome?
[32:01.840 --> 32:03.600]  But, you know, that's not going to affect...
[32:03.600 --> 32:04.360]  Yes, Emmanuel.
[32:05.620 --> 32:09.480]  Yes, an interesting development in that particular field.
[32:09.680 --> 32:20.200]  I don't know if you follow this story, but one of the suspects for July 21st was, he went up to Italy, and he took his phone with him, but he changed the SIM card.
[32:20.440 --> 32:27.620]  However, they were still able to find him based on the ID that his phone generated, regardless of the fact that he changed what it did in his SIM.
[32:27.900 --> 32:29.940]  They were still able to track him down quite evilly.
[32:30.200 --> 32:41.080]  Well, just to counter my own argument, though, it is fairly easy to be untraceable with this cell phone, because before going to Europe, I purchased a cell phone for cash from someone I knew, but I could have probably bought one on the street.
[32:41.480 --> 32:52.460]  And then when I went to Europe, I bought a prepaid SIM with cash, and I was able to use it, so I suppose it could be done, that you would be untraceable.
[32:53.220 --> 32:55.040]  On the subject of phones, I'm curious.
[32:55.640 --> 32:58.060]  Most of you have been to Europe in the past month or so.
[32:58.260 --> 33:01.200]  How did you guys make out as far as phone connectivity?
[33:01.460 --> 33:02.060]  Did you get ripped off?
[33:02.160 --> 33:02.740]  Did it work well?
[33:02.880 --> 33:03.700]  I got ripped off.
[33:03.700 --> 33:04.640]  I did not use a phone.
[33:04.800 --> 33:11.880]  Well, my Liechtenstein phone is not as you promised, Manuel, but it did serve me through text messaging and things.
[33:11.960 --> 33:17.820]  It couldn't really receive calls or make calls, even though they promised that it would, and unfortunately, it doesn't work here.
[33:18.280 --> 33:28.480]  What upset me about my Netherlands SIM was that upon entering the country, I got a terrible deal for this prepaid SIM, and upon leaving, I passed by the same store and saw a sign with great rates for prepaid SIMs.
[33:28.780 --> 33:30.480]  So that's the only thing that really upset me.
[33:30.480 --> 33:34.720]  And it had the rates that Mike had, which were pretty good, eight cents for SMSs and stuff Yeah, you've got to shop around.
[33:35.060 --> 33:36.080]  No, it was the same store.
[33:36.620 --> 33:40.380]  Well, you've got to interrogate the clerks and make them give you the good ones.
[33:40.380 --> 33:40.820]  I don't know.
[33:40.920 --> 33:42.000]  It must have been a promotion or something.
[33:42.760 --> 33:44.800]  I guess it's very complicated very quickly.
[33:45.800 --> 33:46.400]  What was that?
[33:46.920 --> 33:52.260]  Instead of using a DSM phone, I just purchased prepaid phone cards and used pay phones in the countries I went to.
[33:52.360 --> 33:52.540]  Right.
[33:52.860 --> 33:53.780]  Manuel, you had something to say?
[33:54.620 --> 33:56.580]  Well, it gets very complicated very quickly.
[33:56.760 --> 33:59.980]  For instance, you know, I have two GSM phones on me now and a satellite phone.
[34:01.120 --> 34:04.420]  And, you know, the LinkedIn Steam deal worked for a little while.
[34:04.520 --> 34:06.480]  It doesn't work very well at all in Russia.
[34:06.880 --> 34:07.600]  It's expensive.
[34:07.600 --> 34:08.560]  It's not free incoming.
[34:08.900 --> 34:11.320]  And I found out today that SMS doesn't even work.
[34:11.400 --> 34:12.780]  I can't receive SMS messages on it.
[34:12.860 --> 34:16.340]  So, you know, I'm saving that phone for Mongolia and points beyond.
[34:17.320 --> 34:20.440]  But you really have to do some research if you don't want to get ripped off.
[34:22.280 --> 34:28.180]  I was able to purchase, when in the Netherlands, a Dutch SIM card, which was a pretty good deal.
[34:28.360 --> 34:38.940]  It charged me only eight cents to send an SMS, both domestically in the Netherlands and to folks who had foreign phones, which was a good deal.
[34:39.000 --> 34:46.420]  Although, when I left the Netherlands and went to a couple other European countries, the rates shot up dramatically, as one might expect.
[34:48.240 --> 34:53.920]  Speaking of the Netherlands, actually, most of us in the studio attended the What the Hack conference.
[34:54.180 --> 35:02.840]  And I just wanted to mention that Barry sent us an email telling us that all the workshops are encoded and available online for What the Hack.
[35:03.080 --> 35:09.820]  And you can get them at rehash, R-E-H-A-S-H, dot whatthehack.org.
[35:09.820 --> 35:22.700]  And if you'd like to see the What the Hack and Hope lockpick videos, you can get those at connect.w-a-a-g-dot-o-r-g-slash-t-o-o-o-l.
[35:23.120 --> 35:24.520]  Tool with three O's.
[35:25.860 --> 35:29.160]  Which stands for the Open Organization of Lockpickers.
[35:29.380 --> 35:29.520]  Right.
[35:30.840 --> 35:32.920]  Wasn't there a top-level domain after that?
[35:33.620 --> 35:35.200]  Um, no.
[35:35.700 --> 35:36.900]  Is it tool.nl?
[35:36.900 --> 35:40.960]  Well, Barry sent us a link to the videos, so...
[35:40.960 --> 35:46.940]  It's connect.w-a-a-g-dot-org-slash-t-o-o-o-l.
[35:48.000 --> 35:48.580]  Oh, okay.
[35:48.760 --> 35:51.140]  And rehash.whatthehack.org.
[35:51.200 --> 35:54.420]  So if you're interested in those videos, go ahead and check them out.
[35:54.580 --> 35:55.460]  You can also...
[35:55.460 --> 35:58.280]  They're in MP4 format for anybody who's interested.
[35:58.540 --> 35:58.680]  Right.
[35:58.840 --> 36:05.380]  You can also now see the HAL 2001 videos, which got posted at about the same time.
[36:05.380 --> 36:09.180]  So it's a good mix of speed and, uh, sloth.
[36:09.800 --> 36:16.040]  Before I lose my signal again, I'd like to, uh, give out the address, uh, for our radio program so that people can write to us who are listening.
[36:16.620 --> 36:20.320]  Uh, the email address, O-T-H at 2600.com.
[36:20.520 --> 36:21.960]  O-T-H is, of course, standing for off-the-hook.
[36:22.560 --> 36:29.520]  And our first address, off-the-hook, pair-up, W- W- W- W- W- W- W- W- W- W- W- New York.
[36:31.140 --> 36:32.540]  All right, uh...
[36:32.540 --> 36:33.900]  Well, let's, let's try that again.
[36:34.000 --> 36:35.160]  We'll tell it to yourselves.
[36:35.420 --> 36:41.740]  Uh, if you'd like to, uh, email us, uh, the address is O-T-H at 2600.com.
[36:41.980 --> 36:47.980]  Uh, and the mailing address is off-the-hook, care-of-W-B-A-I, 120 Wall Street.
[36:48.320 --> 36:49.100]  Tenth floor.
[36:49.440 --> 36:50.460]  New York, New York.
[36:50.700 --> 36:52.820]  One, zero, zero, zero, five.
[36:54.140 --> 36:55.800]  Well, I sure feel useful now.
[36:55.980 --> 36:56.900]  I just said all that.
[36:57.160 --> 36:58.980]  You, you, you died in the middle.
[36:59.240 --> 36:59.280]  Yeah.
[36:59.400 --> 36:59.680]  Very badly.
[36:59.880 --> 37:02.720]  Was it my fault that a freight train passed by yet again?
[37:02.960 --> 37:04.120]  Yes, it is your fault.
[37:04.280 --> 37:04.840]  Please stop it.
[37:05.020 --> 37:06.320]  Well, gee whiz.
[37:08.840 --> 37:09.420]  All right.
[37:09.780 --> 37:17.800]  Speaking of freight trains, there'll be, uh, speaking of freight trains, wouldn't there be freight trains now going underneath, uh, going from, uh, Manhattan to Brooklyn?
[37:18.160 --> 37:19.380]  Uh, they did in the U.S.
[37:19.580 --> 37:25.600]  government just to provide funding in the transportation bill for this new, uh, freight, uh, freight train tunnel, tunnel in New York?
[37:26.500 --> 37:28.880]  Yeah, I've been hearing about that now for years.
[37:29.080 --> 37:30.740]  And I really doubt it's ever going to happen.
[37:30.940 --> 37:33.020]  But, uh, are the trains actually moving?
[37:34.240 --> 37:48.800]  The tunnel actually, there was a spur just south of the 59th Street station on the subway because, uh, after it was failed as a freight tunnel, they were going to build it as a subway tunnel to the north shore of Staten Island.
[37:48.800 --> 37:59.280]  They built about 150 feet of it in the 1920s, and, uh, about 10, 15 years ago, they converted that 150 feet to offices for the track department.
[38:00.600 --> 38:01.900]  Well, that's a good use for them.
[38:04.700 --> 38:08.880]  All right, uh, do we have any more news or shall we move on and take some phone calls?
[38:09.300 --> 38:15.000]  Well, I just want to update folks, uh, in case they're just tuning in, that, uh, I'm on the Trans-Siberian Express live.
[38:15.340 --> 38:23.580]  Uh, it's Thursday morning here, the sun is coming out, uh, so, uh, that's why I sound so, so loudly, and that's why we keep losing my signal.
[38:23.740 --> 38:29.920]  I'm actually, I've got my head pressed against the window of my cabin now with a satellite phone, hopefully pointing towards certain satellites.
[38:30.080 --> 38:34.660]  We've given up on the GSM, that doesn't seem to be working, uh, but the satellite is what we're using right now.
[38:34.820 --> 38:38.580]  So, it's a kind of a unique show, and I apologize for any, uh, bad sounds it might be creating.
[38:38.760 --> 38:41.240]  It's amusing to hear your voice cracking, in a way.
[38:41.500 --> 38:48.980]  If you would like to call us from, uh, really any sort of phone, the number here is, uh, 212-209-2900.
[38:49.240 --> 38:50.120]  Country Code 1.
[38:50.280 --> 38:51.040]  Country Code 1.
[38:51.520 --> 38:51.980]  Uh-huh.
[38:52.580 --> 38:53.760]  And can I issue an appeal?
[38:54.000 --> 38:58.240]  If there are any listeners in the Siberian city of the Perth, okay?
[38:58.460 --> 39:00.700]  I probably don't get wrong, but if you live there, you know how to pronounce it.
[39:01.240 --> 39:03.980]  I was quite sure we're bringing back to the internet there.
[39:04.160 --> 39:05.280]  You're going to have to repeat that.
[39:05.360 --> 39:07.140]  Yeah, I think there was another freight train there.
[39:08.960 --> 39:09.360]  Eric?
[39:10.120 --> 39:10.520]  Manual?
[39:12.200 --> 39:19.320]  Uh, we, we did not get any emails from anyone in our Kirk's as of yet, but we did get an email from someone in Mongolia.
[39:19.440 --> 39:20.180]  Yes, I saw that.
[39:20.380 --> 39:24.260]  So, maybe, uh, when you're there, you can, uh, talk to that person.
[39:27.020 --> 39:33.840]  I think what you're trying to say is that we sound about as bad to you as, as you are, to our listeners.
[39:34.100 --> 39:34.600]  Makes sense.
[39:35.040 --> 39:36.780]  Um, let's, let's take a phone call.
[39:36.920 --> 39:37.020]  All right.
[39:37.540 --> 39:37.540]  Um.
[39:37.800 --> 39:41.400]  Again, we'd like to hear your opinions on the searches in the New York City subway as well.
[39:41.620 --> 39:43.140]  Or anything else that caught your interest this show.
[39:43.900 --> 39:44.760]  Uh, good evening.
[39:44.880 --> 39:45.420]  You're on the air.
[39:45.620 --> 39:47.220]  Yes, is that like Amtrak?
[39:48.040 --> 39:48.660]  Oh, no.
[39:48.960 --> 39:50.740]  It is, it is, uh, very different.
[39:51.080 --> 39:52.180]  Very different indeed.
[39:53.480 --> 39:53.780]  All right.
[39:54.060 --> 39:55.960]  Let's take another phone call.
[39:56.100 --> 39:57.360]  Well, they're both government train systems.
[39:57.640 --> 39:57.880]  Right.
[39:58.900 --> 39:59.600]  Uh, good evening.
[39:59.740 --> 40:00.180]  You're on the air.
[40:00.680 --> 40:01.020]  Hi.
[40:01.380 --> 40:01.700]  Hi.
[40:01.920 --> 40:02.800]  Uh, good evening.
[40:03.140 --> 40:05.200]  Hi, Emmanuel in, uh, Siberia.
[40:05.500 --> 40:06.680]  Uh, I think we just lost him, so.
[40:06.840 --> 40:07.120]  Oh, okay.
[40:07.240 --> 40:07.760]  Either way.
[40:07.900 --> 40:11.420]  I was hit with a bogus $90 repair bill from the phone company.
[40:11.700 --> 40:13.180]  That's the back part of the story.
[40:13.520 --> 40:16.460]  I was getting, uh, I had a, a, a speaker phone.
[40:16.720 --> 40:18.080]  They had seven minutes on the line.
[40:18.120 --> 40:19.160]  I would get this ground on.
[40:19.640 --> 40:20.800]  So I called the phone company.
[40:21.040 --> 40:22.480]  I didn't let them into my apartment.
[40:22.640 --> 40:25.160]  I just pulled the phone outside my, my door.
[40:25.360 --> 40:26.220]  So you hear that?
[40:26.240 --> 40:26.760]  That ground on.
[40:26.940 --> 40:30.160]  So they went to my backyard and they couldn't find anything, any problem.
[40:30.500 --> 40:38.440]  So according to the phone company, they determined since they couldn't find any problem in my backyard connection, that it must be something in my apartment.
[40:39.320 --> 40:43.120]  When I plugged a regular $5 phone in, the problem isn't there.
[40:43.560 --> 40:48.480]  And yet they never came into my apartment and they're hitting me with a $90 repair bill without repairing the problem.
[40:48.720 --> 40:49.620]  Is that legal?
[40:50.100 --> 40:59.380]  I believe the phone company has an automatic charge when they show up and it's, uh, it's posted on, uh, in the, uh, the yellow pages, the white pages, whatever.
[40:59.980 --> 41:09.300]  So since I posted it, they made a service call to your address, whether or not you let them into the last 50, feet, that's between you and them.
[41:09.640 --> 41:14.700]  Morally, uh, it's questionable, but legally I think they have a leg to stand on, unfortunately.
[41:17.790 --> 41:18.430]  All right.
[41:18.850 --> 41:20.410]  Uh, I guess I'll take another phone call.
[41:21.090 --> 41:21.530]  Okay.
[41:22.110 --> 41:22.410]  Uh, sorry.
[41:22.490 --> 41:24.130]  We're, we're having connectivity problems again.
[41:24.130 --> 41:25.250]  So, all right.
[41:25.430 --> 41:28.450]  Um, and good evening.
[41:28.590 --> 41:29.090]  You're on the air.
[41:31.010 --> 41:31.710]  Oh, hello.
[41:32.510 --> 41:39.310]  Listen, uh, I think it'd be nice if a part of the staff of this program were made or composed of women.
[41:39.830 --> 41:40.650]  We would too.
[41:40.850 --> 41:42.190]  And even a young, a young person.
[41:42.410 --> 41:52.390]  I mean, uh, it, it, it, it's tiresome to hear the, uh, computer program and the, and you are off the hook and, and you don't have any like staff, uh, women.
[41:52.550 --> 42:01.890]  And you know, WBAI, the LSB, they, they, uh, have surveyed this and then they say, we've got to do something about it and nothing ever gets done.
[42:01.890 --> 42:08.650]  Well, I'd like to make an appeal then if you're a, a young, attractive, computer savvy woman out there.
[42:08.830 --> 42:12.450]  What the sound you're hearing now is the sound of me throwing things at Jim.
[42:12.870 --> 42:24.070]  I don't think that you have to use the word attractive because the beauty is in the eye of the intelligence that would be pervaded by a person who another person might not care to marry.
[42:24.270 --> 42:27.890]  I agree with you too, but they're going to be sitting here with us.
[42:28.390 --> 42:29.110]  I think Jim.
[42:29.470 --> 42:31.730]  Why am I hearing this voice in Siberia for God's sake?
[42:31.890 --> 42:35.170]  I mean, anything, uh, out there about freedom of speech, Emmanuel?
[42:35.950 --> 42:36.910]  It's good to know you're still alive.
[42:36.910 --> 42:38.370]  Not that I can see, Monroe, I'm sorry.
[42:38.510 --> 42:40.690]  I don't see any free speech out here, just a lot of trees.
[42:41.490 --> 42:44.470]  I mean, I, I don't know what's going on about the world.
[42:44.650 --> 42:46.710]  People are, uh, are, uh, censoring me.
[42:46.830 --> 42:53.770]  They think all I'm going to talk about is the station, but actually I'm, uh, laboring to go through instruction books.
[42:53.810 --> 43:06.950]  I, I make a plea that people who write instruction books think about as if they didn't know anything when they write it and not, uh, uh, uh, sort of know everything and, uh, don't mention what this is.
[43:07.150 --> 43:13.450]  I never heard of an escape button and then all of a sudden tonight I'm, uh, finding out about an escape button.
[43:13.670 --> 43:15.770]  It's very important if you're in a tight corner.
[43:16.330 --> 43:17.950]  Yeah, right, the upper left corner.
[43:18.310 --> 43:25.250]  So listen, guys, uh, the best of everything and, uh, uh, you know, please try and be, uh, diversified, you know?
[43:26.090 --> 43:27.270]  All right, thanks for hearing.
[43:27.270 --> 43:27.690]  Carry on.
[43:27.850 --> 43:29.130]  Get, get other callers, please.
[43:30.850 --> 43:31.210]  Okay.
[43:31.370 --> 43:31.630]  All right.
[43:32.010 --> 43:32.690]  We'll do that.
[43:33.390 --> 43:37.130]  I can't believe how, how surreal that was hearing my mother's voice here on the Trans-Siberian Express.
[43:38.090 --> 43:38.450]  Okay.
[43:38.890 --> 43:39.510]  All right, let's take another phone.
[43:39.510 --> 43:40.970]  I'm the only person that's ever happened to.
[43:41.270 --> 43:41.630]  Probably.
[43:42.270 --> 43:43.490]  All right, uh, good evening.
[43:43.630 --> 43:44.090]  You're on the air.
[43:45.070 --> 43:46.470]  Hello, I'm on, I'm on?
[43:46.610 --> 43:46.830]  Yes.
[43:47.030 --> 43:49.810]  I was in the subway the other day, 110th Street on, uh, Broadway.
[43:50.170 --> 43:50.370]  Mm-hmm.
[43:50.370 --> 44:03.310]  Two, they look like, uh, tourists, young fellas, went up to the telephone, uh, pole, and they read the number from the phone, and they, in, inserted in their little, uh, cell phone.
[44:03.970 --> 44:08.910]  And all of a sudden, he pressed whatever he's supposed to press, and, uh, the phone in the subway rang.
[44:09.470 --> 44:12.930]  And they give each other high fives, maybe it's your people, and walked away.
[44:13.370 --> 44:16.130]  Just as the train came, that same phone started ringing.
[44:16.290 --> 44:18.470]  So I picked it up and said, stop that nonsense, little fellas.
[44:19.290 --> 44:20.290]  What were they doing?
[44:21.110 --> 44:23.230]  Now, was this a payphone, or, uh...
[44:23.230 --> 44:25.170]  Yes, the payphone in the subway, right?
[44:25.410 --> 44:25.670]  Oh, that's interesting.
[44:25.670 --> 44:31.590]  I'm looking at the payphone, these two fellas came up, and they were reading some numbers from the payphone, and enter it in their cell phone.
[44:31.810 --> 44:33.070]  Yeah, that's called the telephone number.
[44:33.070 --> 44:37.130]  Yeah, they usually have the telephone number printed on a piece of paper, and inserted into the, uh...
[44:37.130 --> 44:37.350]  Good.
[44:37.510 --> 44:44.250]  And they press, they put the number in their phone, and they press a button on their phone, and that, uh, the payphone rang.
[44:44.570 --> 44:47.030]  Yeah, that's called dialing the phone from their payphone.
[44:47.030 --> 44:54.030]  So, 110th and Broadway is a station where the booth is on the same level as the platform.
[44:54.270 --> 44:58.250]  You're only 15 feet or so below the level of the street and it's relatively wide.
[44:58.270 --> 44:58.390]  Hang on.
[44:58.770 --> 44:59.710]  Hang on one second.
[45:00.050 --> 45:02.350]  There's a payphone in New York City that's still...
[45:02.350 --> 45:04.010]  That surprised me, yes.
[45:04.670 --> 45:06.070]  Probably hence all the high-fiving.
[45:06.430 --> 45:06.650]  Yeah.
[45:07.610 --> 45:08.870]  All right, let's take another phone call.
[45:08.870 --> 45:11.010]  We should go up to 110th Street and Broadway and see.
[45:11.230 --> 45:12.830]  I could do that, sure.
[45:13.310 --> 45:13.570]  All right.
[45:13.890 --> 45:14.310]  Both sides.
[45:14.690 --> 45:16.010]  Good evening, you're on the air.
[45:16.010 --> 45:17.650]  Yes, good evening.
[45:18.230 --> 45:19.350]  All right, bye, Rebel.
[45:20.650 --> 45:21.310]  All right.
[45:22.290 --> 45:23.630]  Good evening, you're on the air.
[45:24.950 --> 45:25.450]  Hello?
[45:25.850 --> 45:26.070]  Hi.
[45:26.410 --> 45:27.610]  I used to live in New York.
[45:27.730 --> 45:34.910]  I don't anymore, but if I was there, what I would do is carry a small pad of paper and a pencil or a Palm Pilot.
[45:35.050 --> 45:45.550]  And if you do consent to be searched in the subway, you'd very politely ask the officer for his badge number and name and any other identifying thing about him, the color of his eyes and so forth.
[45:45.710 --> 45:48.950]  And just, if he asks anything, you just say, you're doing your own personal survey.
[45:49.670 --> 45:56.230]  An interesting card I came across at a local coffee shop is sort of mimicking the Metro card.
[45:56.370 --> 45:59.550]  And on it, it's printed, I'd rather walk than submit to unwarranted searches.
[45:59.770 --> 46:00.370]  Right on.
[46:00.370 --> 46:05.270]  And what you can do is you can just hand the cop this, you know, very politely, I wouldn't cause any problems.
[46:05.530 --> 46:08.570]  And on the back is a snippet of the Fourth Amendment, you know.
[46:09.150 --> 46:09.610]  That's right.
[46:09.950 --> 46:10.490]  So it's...
[46:10.490 --> 46:12.710]  Hey, I've got an idea concerning the searches.
[46:12.890 --> 46:17.390]  What if we simply have people stand outside that station with big signs saying, search is underway here.
[46:19.210 --> 46:21.690]  All right, listen, I'm going to sign off, but have a good show.
[46:21.810 --> 46:22.330]  Yeah, I like it.
[46:22.490 --> 46:22.970]  All right, thanks.
[46:23.750 --> 46:25.210]  A bit of mischief from Siberia.
[46:25.950 --> 46:28.510]  All right, uh, good evening.
[46:28.710 --> 46:29.290]  You're on the air.
[46:30.230 --> 46:31.170]  Hey, guys, how you doing?
[46:31.270 --> 46:32.250]  It's Zephyr in Manhattan.
[46:32.590 --> 46:32.730]  Hi.
[46:32.730 --> 46:36.570]  Big fan of the show and old friend of Don Letts's.
[46:36.670 --> 46:47.910]  But anyway, if I say this not to be, uh, rude, I'm actually sincere, um, has anybody ever acknowledged that Jim sounds like Tom Servo from Mystery Science Theater?
[46:48.310 --> 46:49.210]  I'm just wondering.
[46:49.370 --> 46:54.350]  I'm really not trying to be rude or waste time, but the voice resemblance is uncanny.
[46:54.350 --> 46:54.790]  Uncanny.
[46:54.870 --> 46:56.490]  Jim, what's your, what's your comment on this?
[46:57.170 --> 46:59.210]  Well, now you know my previous job.
[47:00.130 --> 47:00.470]  All right.
[47:01.750 --> 47:02.850]  Uh, another phone call.
[47:03.050 --> 47:03.470]  Good evening.
[47:03.630 --> 47:04.270]  You're on the air.
[47:04.670 --> 47:06.250]  Um, this is George in New Jersey.
[47:06.250 --> 47:07.470]  Uh, can you please turn your radio down?
[47:09.670 --> 47:10.110]  Hello?
[47:10.430 --> 47:10.750]  Down.
[47:11.030 --> 47:11.610]  All right.
[47:12.250 --> 47:13.090]  Um, off the roof?
[47:13.310 --> 47:13.750]  Yeah.
[47:13.870 --> 47:23.870]  I'm calling about a credit card thing at the post office, and they got the commemorative stamps, and I go in in Maryland two weeks ago with my sister.
[47:24.830 --> 47:25.230]  Yes?
[47:25.510 --> 47:25.770]  All right.
[47:25.890 --> 47:26.650]  Hang on a second.
[47:27.390 --> 47:27.790]  Okay.
[47:28.010 --> 47:28.310]  Go ahead.
[47:29.210 --> 47:29.950]  Am I still on the air?
[47:29.970 --> 47:30.690]  Yes, you're still on the air.
[47:30.890 --> 47:31.090]  All right.
[47:31.870 --> 47:34.230]  So, I say, I want to see the commemorative stamps.
[47:34.470 --> 47:42.050]  So they put Reagan up, they put Robeson up, they put Disney characters up, and John Wayne up.
[47:42.050 --> 47:48.590]  I said, look, I want half a sheet of John Wayne, I want half a sheet of Robeson, Mickey Mouth.
[47:48.710 --> 47:57.930]  I just want one character, one stamp, because I like the characters, but I don't... I heard things about the company doing things, financing things, maybe for war or different things.
[47:57.930 --> 48:00.670]  I ain't sure of what... I have a memory of something like that.
[48:00.970 --> 48:05.250]  But anyway, then, my sister says, you should give it to you, you can pay for your credit cards.
[48:05.370 --> 48:06.970]  No, I'm paying cash, but you...
[48:06.970 --> 48:07.270]  If you...
[48:07.270 --> 48:08.810]  And, like, they give me a receipt, too.
[48:09.250 --> 48:18.990]  Now, if you had paid with your credit card, they would... and you said, no, I don't want Reagan, and you want Robeson, they know that you're a little bit to the left, like I am.
[48:19.790 --> 48:25.010]  And, in other words, by your credit card, I'm paying for it, they can tell who you would vote for.
[48:26.070 --> 48:29.210]  All kinds of data collection is indeed possible.
[48:29.570 --> 48:35.970]  Yeah, but this is tricky, this is sneaky, but I figured out I can have the dots, I had two and two together.
[48:36.950 --> 48:37.590]  All right.
[48:38.810 --> 48:44.790]  It's a possibility, I don't know how real it is, but nothing is impossible in the wonderful world of data collection.
[48:44.810 --> 48:47.470]  It always depends on how much someone wants your data.
[48:47.610 --> 48:55.570]  I don't think, I mean, maybe, you know, the Republican Party will send you extra leaflets because they've determined through the postal system that you're a little to the left, but...
[48:55.570 --> 48:56.690]  Or the Democratic Party...
[48:56.690 --> 48:57.770]  I look at it this way, okay?
[48:57.770 --> 49:00.150]  You should be more like me in this case, okay?
[49:00.270 --> 49:04.410]  I'm a radical Republican, and yet I was at Paul Robeson's funeral, okay?
[49:04.650 --> 49:05.910]  So what do they make of that?
[49:06.190 --> 49:06.830]  Next call.
[49:06.830 --> 49:20.290]  Wait, wait, the caller does raise an interesting point in that the collection of data, maybe not what you buy at each place, but where you buy it, the selling of this data is a real threat to people's privacy.
[49:20.610 --> 49:21.250]  That's true.
[49:21.530 --> 49:22.690]  But I guess we have another call.
[49:22.690 --> 49:23.510]  Yes, we have another caller.
[49:23.730 --> 49:24.590]  Good evening, you're on the air.
[49:25.250 --> 49:27.130]  Hi, it's Jim from New York.
[49:27.350 --> 49:27.690]  Hi.
[49:28.390 --> 49:30.050]  Hey, I'm calling about Emmanuel.
[49:30.470 --> 49:36.610]  I was listening to the show, he seems like he's on the Trans-Siberian Railroad, which is like a dream vacation for so many people.
[49:36.830 --> 49:42.910]  Can you tell us a little bit more about how the trip's going and what it's like, and would you recommend it to others?
[49:43.150 --> 49:51.110]  Well, unfortunately, the Trans-Siberian Railroad has done us a disfavor and disconnected Emmanuel, but as soon as we can get him back on the air, we'll relay your question.
[49:51.110 --> 50:07.110]  Well, he's keeping a journal of his adventures, and if you want to read it, you can go to 2600.com, and then there's a picture of a globe on the top, and if you click on it, then you get to his daily journal, and he explains in detail about his adventures,
[50:07.170 --> 50:07.910]  and he keeps pictures.
[50:08.110 --> 50:09.790]  So that's something you might want to look at.
[50:10.710 --> 50:13.650]  It can be quite fascinating at times.
[50:13.890 --> 50:15.670]  I guess we're trying to...
[50:15.670 --> 50:17.490]  Right, we're trying to hail Emmanuel, so...
[50:17.490 --> 50:18.950]  Oh, oh, that's a good sound.
[50:19.030 --> 50:19.210]  Hi.
[50:19.370 --> 50:19.590]  Okay.
[50:19.750 --> 50:20.290]  We'll put you on the air.
[50:20.710 --> 50:21.130]  Okay.
[50:21.450 --> 50:21.830]  Wow.
[50:22.130 --> 50:23.690]  What technology do we have here?
[50:25.230 --> 50:25.930]  Oh, no.
[50:26.110 --> 50:26.590]  I don't know what I do.
[50:28.370 --> 50:28.790]  Okay.
[50:29.430 --> 50:29.850]  Hello.
[50:30.750 --> 50:30.830]  Hello.
[50:30.830 --> 50:32.050]  Hello, you're on the air.
[50:34.330 --> 50:36.050]  I guess he's not so much on the air.
[50:36.630 --> 50:37.550]  Well, it worked a second ago.
[50:38.650 --> 50:40.030]  All right, I guess we'll take another phone call.
[50:41.570 --> 50:42.730]  Good evening, you're on the air.
[50:43.490 --> 50:44.150]  Yeah, hi, guys.
[50:44.510 --> 50:57.690]  The Sunday papers, they talked about how Europe is really more protective of privacy rights than good old corporate America, where all our citizen rights seem to be embedded in the uniform commercial code.
[50:57.690 --> 51:02.670]  But I was wondering, like, you know, we're surveilling and we're selling the surveillance.
[51:02.990 --> 51:06.930]  Just like, you know, they surveil people at Super Bowls.
[51:07.050 --> 51:08.710]  Now we have the subway system.
[51:09.030 --> 51:10.710]  I mean, like, this stuff is...
[51:10.710 --> 51:26.190]  They're going to make a buck off who gets off by, you know, the opera houses versus who gets off by the sports arena with the security lenses at my supermarket here in Ridgewood, New Jersey, you know, Bergen County.
[51:27.510 --> 51:36.230]  The telescope of the security camera shines right down on the pad that you punch in your personal PIN number every time you buy your cat food.
[51:36.530 --> 51:40.210]  And I'm wondering, you know, maybe Emmanuel's over there in Russia.
[51:40.390 --> 51:47.150]  Could you guys comment on how Europe is trying to slow down, just making us all transparent, except for the police?
[51:48.310 --> 51:49.310]  Well, sure.
[51:49.410 --> 51:52.810]  There's actually a real difference in the... I'm echoing.
[51:52.950 --> 52:02.830]  In the European and American approaches to this sort of privacy legislation, Americans tend to be more afraid of their government.
[52:02.830 --> 52:10.030]  And there's some protections, fewer and fewer every day, against the government keeping tabs on us.
[52:10.190 --> 52:15.370]  Whereas in Europe, there's relatively few protections against the government keeping tabs on us.
[52:15.430 --> 52:30.490]  In fact, they're starting this new EU project, this data retention project, where all phone companies and internet providers will be required to keep connection logs for a period of three years after you visit a site.
[52:30.610 --> 52:34.130]  And that information can be obtained by the government.
[52:34.730 --> 52:43.870]  However, in Europe, while the protections from government are often somewhat less, the protections from corporations are generally much stronger.
[52:43.870 --> 52:47.790]  The prevailing attitude in Europe is that your data is your own.
[52:48.450 --> 52:58.910]  And, and, you know, if you have a supermarket loyalty card or whatever, the supermarket is not allowed without your express consent to sell that data.
[52:59.210 --> 53:12.830]  And all these countries have privacy commissioners or whatever the equivalent title is in the local bureaucratic dialect to ensure that your privacy is maintained.
[53:12.830 --> 53:19.890]  And that is something that is pretty much totally non-existent with the exception of medical records here in the States.
[53:19.890 --> 53:33.670]  That's, that's not to say though that privacy is, is safe over here either, because there are all kinds of laws and, and, and legislation coming down the pike as far as, uh, national ID cards and, uh, uh, surveillance cameras every place.
[53:34.050 --> 53:36.350]  Um, it's, um, it's bad all over in different ways.
[53:37.270 --> 53:41.610]  I, I, if, uh, if I said anything that was, uh, reassuring, then it was a misstatement.
[53:41.610 --> 53:53.550]  And, and don't forget if, if the, uh, telescope is on the pin, uh, is on the keyboard, use one hand for the pin and one hand to hide it.
[53:54.290 --> 53:57.750]  Oh, well, I believe, uh, we're almost out of time for tonight, so...
[53:57.750 --> 54:03.150]  Let me, uh, let me just say in closing, I'm back on GSM now, but I want to thank you, Bryce, for putting up with some horrible sounds tonight.
[54:03.430 --> 54:08.190]  Next week I'll be in Mongolia, hopefully I'll have a better, uh, a better sound on the phone.
[54:08.510 --> 54:12.530]  I want to thank all you guys over there in New York for, uh, for helping out and getting the show on the air.
[54:13.290 --> 54:13.890]  No problem.
[54:14.330 --> 54:15.830]  All right, uh, we'll talk to you next week.
[54:16.030 --> 54:17.710]  Uh, this has been Off the Hook for tonight.
[54:17.930 --> 54:18.170]  Good night.