[00:00.000 --> 00:06.840]  However, it is unlikely that this hearing will translate into any actual legislative action against the companies.
[00:07.420 --> 00:11.980]  For Free Speech Radio News, I'm Anastasia Gnezdytskaya in Washington, D.C.
[00:12.700 --> 00:18.980]  Free Speech Radio News is produced at Pacifica Stations, KPFA in Berkeley, and KPFA in Los Angeles.
[00:19.280 --> 00:22.540]  Free Speech Radio News is an independent, worker-run collective.
[00:22.920 --> 00:28.600]  For more information, check out our website at www.fsrn.org.
[00:28.600 --> 00:31.180]  In Los Angeles, I'm Aura Bogado.
[00:32.880 --> 00:35.400]  And you're listening to Radio Station WBAI in New York.
[00:37.720 --> 00:38.780]  It's 7.01.
[00:38.900 --> 00:39.640]  Time for Off the Hook.
[00:40.700 --> 00:45.120]  The telephone keeps ringing, so I ripped it off the wall.
[00:46.100 --> 00:50.560]  I cut myself while shaving, now I can't make a call.
[00:51.280 --> 00:58.830]  We couldn't get much worse, come to the bomb for the best, expect the worst.
[00:59.690 --> 01:01.370]  I hope that's understood.
[01:01.510 --> 01:02.410]  One day, let me know.
[01:15.900 --> 01:17.000]  And a very good evening to everybody.
[01:17.100 --> 01:19.040]  The program is Off the Hook.
[01:19.180 --> 01:20.640]  Emmanuel Goldstein here with you tonight.
[01:21.560 --> 01:22.700]  Joined by Jim.
[01:23.200 --> 01:23.560]  Yasu.
[01:24.340 --> 01:25.100]  Thank you very much.
[01:25.760 --> 01:26.120]  Mike.
[01:26.600 --> 01:26.960]  Hi.
[01:28.540 --> 01:28.900]  Redbird.
[01:29.220 --> 01:29.580]  Good evening.
[01:29.940 --> 01:30.300]  Arseny.
[01:30.420 --> 01:30.640]  Hi.
[01:30.800 --> 01:31.100]  Walter.
[01:31.520 --> 01:31.700]  Hello.
[01:32.000 --> 01:33.560]  And, wait, why is your mic on?
[01:33.680 --> 01:34.040]  Yeah, it's not...
[01:34.040 --> 01:34.940]  Oh, say that again.
[01:35.120 --> 01:35.360]  Hello.
[01:35.780 --> 01:36.600]  Wait, it's still not working.
[01:36.760 --> 01:37.440]  You know what this...
[01:37.440 --> 01:38.140]  Oh, I see it.
[01:38.180 --> 01:39.600]  The button's actually physically stuck.
[01:39.840 --> 01:40.520]  Now try it.
[01:41.120 --> 01:41.440]  Hello.
[01:41.640 --> 01:42.040]  There you go.
[01:42.380 --> 01:44.020]  It was literally stuck to the board.
[01:44.100 --> 01:44.680]  I never saw that before.
[01:44.760 --> 01:45.760]  And Bernie down in Philadelphia.
[01:46.420 --> 01:47.520]  Greetings from Philadelphia.
[01:47.820 --> 01:51.960]  Now, I want to start off on an unpleasant note, because I have a bone to pick with the MTA.
[01:53.640 --> 01:56.040]  On my way over here to the radio station this evening.
[01:56.900 --> 01:58.780]  Had a rather unpleasant experience.
[01:59.620 --> 02:01.580]  I took two subway rides today.
[02:02.000 --> 02:06.880]  The first subway ride, I went into the booth, and I swiped my card.
[02:07.580 --> 02:10.020]  And I noticed that I had $4 remaining.
[02:11.380 --> 02:14.220]  And then, on my way down here, I was in the Union Square station.
[02:15.060 --> 02:16.140]  I swiped my card.
[02:16.860 --> 02:19.900]  And it said, please swipe card again at this turnstile.
[02:21.520 --> 02:22.720]  And I followed the instructions.
[02:22.880 --> 02:24.260]  I swiped again at this turnstile.
[02:24.400 --> 02:25.660]  And it said, please pass.
[02:26.160 --> 02:27.800]  Your balance is zero.
[02:29.120 --> 02:29.560]  Yes.
[02:30.180 --> 02:32.000]  That subway ride cost me $4.
[02:32.140 --> 02:33.220]  I was ripped off.
[02:33.220 --> 02:35.400]  Now, let me ask you guys something.
[02:35.680 --> 02:42.480]  I've heard that the MTA has been having some trouble getting the new security software working properly.
[02:42.860 --> 02:46.620]  And that some people get double swiped on that last pass.
[02:46.740 --> 02:47.740]  Is that what happened to me tonight?
[02:47.880 --> 02:49.800]  Well, you said you had $4 remaining.
[02:50.040 --> 02:50.540]  I had $4 remaining.
[02:50.580 --> 02:53.160]  But this is for the second ride, right?
[02:53.340 --> 02:54.660]  For the second ride, I should have had $4.
[02:54.860 --> 02:55.700]  I swiped it once.
[02:55.780 --> 02:56.480]  It said swipe again.
[02:56.480 --> 02:57.140]  I swiped again.
[02:57.240 --> 02:58.060]  It deducted twice.
[02:58.060 --> 03:00.380]  It usually only does that when you have $2 remaining.
[03:00.600 --> 03:02.360]  I've never seen it do that when you have $4 remaining.
[03:02.380 --> 03:05.940]  Well, I had $4 because it said I had $4 last time I swiped it.
[03:06.000 --> 03:07.160]  So I know I had $4.
[03:07.560 --> 03:15.920]  Well, the reason they do that when you have $2 remaining, and I'll explain this quickly, is because of the whole card bending fiasco that was going on in the past.
[03:16.480 --> 03:20.080]  Whereas you may see people in the subway trying to sell you a ride occasionally.
[03:20.340 --> 03:23.620]  And they'll maybe give it to you for $1 or something like that.
[03:23.680 --> 03:26.060]  And then they'll bend the card and they'll try to get a free ride with you.
[03:26.140 --> 03:26.600]  Old trick, yeah.
[03:26.740 --> 03:27.020]  Old trick.
[03:27.020 --> 03:28.960]  Now they have new security installed.
[03:29.160 --> 03:29.340]  Right.
[03:29.440 --> 03:33.840]  So what they do is they write the card twice.
[03:34.020 --> 03:44.600]  Since there's two fields on the card, one for the previous balance, one for the current balance, it writes over them twice so that it only has $0 remaining on both records.
[03:44.760 --> 03:51.020]  So when you bend the card, what it used to do was put a read error where it said you had $0 remaining.
[03:51.260 --> 03:55.300]  And then it would go ahead and read the part that said you had $2 remaining and let you in.
[03:55.380 --> 03:56.320]  But what does it do now?
[03:56.320 --> 04:05.880]  What it does now is when you swipe it the second time, it rewrites the card again, shifts the records over one so that both records say you have no money on the card.
[04:06.040 --> 04:14.280]  In other words, the folding scam would work in the old days on any card, but especially on zero value cards.
[04:14.280 --> 04:20.780]  Now, by definition, it does not work on any value card less than one full ride.
[04:20.780 --> 04:29.160]  In other words, if you have $1.99 or $0 or $1.50, anything in between $1.99 and zero, the bend trick will not work.
[04:29.300 --> 04:30.360]  You're talking about the bend trick.
[04:30.460 --> 04:33.160]  I want to know about the MTA trick that takes money out of my pocket.
[04:33.360 --> 04:35.440]  Well, your description is unclear to me.
[04:35.440 --> 04:39.360]  The way you told it the first time, it sounded perfectly okay.
[04:39.720 --> 04:43.300]  Before you, the first ride, it read $4.00 and after the second...
[04:43.300 --> 04:44.120]  I'll tell you one more time.
[04:44.200 --> 04:44.960]  Went into the subway.
[04:45.100 --> 04:45.800]  Let's try it.
[04:45.800 --> 04:46.900]  I had $4.00 remaining.
[04:47.300 --> 04:47.420]  Okay?
[04:47.580 --> 04:49.220]  $4.00 remaining means I have $4.00 left.
[04:49.500 --> 04:50.760]  Went into the subway the second time.
[04:50.900 --> 04:51.800]  It said swipe again.
[04:51.900 --> 04:52.520]  I swiped again.
[04:52.640 --> 04:53.620]  It said, okay, go ahead.
[04:53.620 --> 04:54.480]  You have zero left.
[04:54.700 --> 04:56.020]  $4.00, that second ride cost.
[04:56.080 --> 04:57.140]  It's very simple.
[04:57.420 --> 04:58.060]  It's very simple.
[04:58.060 --> 04:59.880]  Well, the MTA's computer has made an error.
[04:59.960 --> 05:05.780]  You should go to the station agent and they'll give you an envelope and you can do all this mailing stuff and they'll send you $2.00 in the mail.
[05:06.060 --> 05:07.360]  So I got to write a letter now?
[05:07.540 --> 05:09.460]  I got to put the stamp on this thing?
[05:09.480 --> 05:11.040]  No, it's a business reply envelope.
[05:11.220 --> 05:11.380]  All right.
[05:11.560 --> 05:13.760]  I'm going to shock people by saying Mike may be right.
[05:14.280 --> 05:18.140]  But anyway, no, this description you gave is still unclear to me.
[05:18.560 --> 05:18.980]  What is unclear?
[05:19.220 --> 05:20.860]  How much more clear can I possibly be?
[05:21.000 --> 05:21.560]  Listen to me.
[05:21.660 --> 05:23.800]  Let me ask the questions you answer for a change.
[05:24.080 --> 05:25.320]  This morning, you got up.
[05:25.400 --> 05:26.400]  How much was on that card?
[05:26.400 --> 05:28.360]  Oh, I imagine $6.00 was on it.
[05:28.460 --> 05:28.840]  All right.
[05:29.020 --> 05:31.280]  Since I went in and it said I had $4.00 left after I went in.
[05:31.360 --> 05:34.100]  Now, you're saying you swiped it and said $4.00.
[05:34.220 --> 05:35.440]  This was a turnstile, yes?
[05:35.440 --> 05:36.240]  This was a turnstile, correct.
[05:36.460 --> 05:37.260]  You took that ride.
[05:37.400 --> 05:38.240]  I took that ride.
[05:38.380 --> 05:39.040]  It was a good ride.
[05:39.040 --> 05:39.540]  I took it.
[05:40.800 --> 05:42.280]  There's $4.00 on your card.
[05:42.380 --> 05:42.640]  Mm-hmm.
[05:43.000 --> 05:46.640]  You're now at Union Square and you still believe that there's $4.00 on that card?
[05:46.680 --> 05:50.380]  I have no reason to believe that $2.00 leaked out of my card since I was walking around the street, yes.
[05:50.380 --> 05:52.160]  You attempt to enter the subway again.
[05:52.160 --> 05:53.080]  You go to a turnstile.
[05:56.400 --> 05:57.400]  You believe in following instructions.
[05:58.220 --> 05:59.120]  That's a shock to me.
[05:59.220 --> 06:03.340]  But anyway, you swipe it again and then it tells you that zero balance?
[06:03.440 --> 06:04.020]  That's right.
[06:04.360 --> 06:05.360]  Does it let you in at least?
[06:05.620 --> 06:06.360]  It let me in, yes.
[06:06.360 --> 06:07.800]  I said go ahead, but you have zero left.
[06:07.940 --> 06:08.960]  That ride cost me $4.00.
[06:09.140 --> 06:09.700]  That's the story.
[06:09.880 --> 06:11.340]  I hope you still have that card.
[06:11.480 --> 06:12.380]  Of course I have that card.
[06:12.460 --> 06:14.280]  Get a business reply envelope from the booth.
[06:14.420 --> 06:15.420]  Tell them you have trouble with the card.
[06:15.540 --> 06:18.600]  Mail it in and you should get your money back.
[06:18.720 --> 06:29.860]  I just wonder how many more people this is happening to and how many more people say to themselves, is it really worth $2.00 to go to all the trouble of filling out forms and going to token agents and mailing things and arguing and that kind of thing.
[06:29.900 --> 06:41.880]  Well, this happened a couple months ago in great volume on one day when they had installed the latest, well, I don't know if it was the latest, but at the time, obviously, the latest software patch to the Bend thing.
[06:42.020 --> 06:45.280]  Did it happen exactly the way I described it or to other kinds of...
[06:45.280 --> 06:47.960]  It happened very much the way you described it.
[06:48.080 --> 06:57.340]  There was a little blurb in the daily news and I heard through the grapevine that it was, we're talking thousands of people, about two and a half months.
[06:57.460 --> 07:03.360]  The most common occurrence was when you had $2.00 remaining, not when you had... I've never heard of this happening when you have $4.00 remaining.
[07:03.360 --> 07:08.880]  Well, I imagine when you swipe a second time, it's actually deducting the first time as well and deducted the second time in addition.
[07:09.040 --> 07:13.200]  That sounds like an altogether different glitch than what was in the newspaper.
[07:13.200 --> 07:18.220]  Here I was worried about getting searched in the subway and they just take the money out out of my pocket some other way.
[07:18.600 --> 07:18.940]  Unbelievable.
[07:19.540 --> 07:24.240]  Now, Bernie S., you had a little encounter with justice today.
[07:24.400 --> 07:25.720]  You want to give us the story behind that?
[07:25.980 --> 07:36.000]  Well, I was just going to say, your story begs the question, why in these kinds of situations is it so rarely in the consumer's favor and not the other way around?
[07:36.520 --> 07:40.820]  Yeah, you know, I've never gotten a bonus on my MetroCard added to it.
[07:40.820 --> 07:40.900]  Exactly.
[07:41.500 --> 07:52.820]  It's vaguely reminiscent of one of the world's oldest computer crime stories where someone basically deducted a penny from all the bank accounts at a particular bank.
[07:52.980 --> 07:55.680]  Nobody really missed it, but it really added up to real money.
[07:55.940 --> 08:07.140]  And who knows how many thousands or hundreds of thousands or millions of MetroCards are being occasionally pilfered for a couple of bucks here and there and people don't notice it, maybe.
[08:08.600 --> 08:09.380]  Who knows?
[08:09.620 --> 08:17.740]  I'm not saying it's intentional, but it certainly doesn't happen the other way around for the consumer's favor.
[08:17.980 --> 08:20.040]  It has happened to me once or twice.
[08:20.560 --> 08:24.820]  It's pretty unusual, but we don't usually talk about it on the radio when we get free subway rides.
[08:24.840 --> 08:33.820]  I'm not sure you enclosed a note in one of those postage-paid envelopes, business or probably envelopes, explaining that with a $2 refund you sent back to them, to be honest.
[08:34.100 --> 08:34.680]  Yes, of course.
[08:34.720 --> 08:36.100]  Oh, how'd you get a free ride on the subway?
[08:36.500 --> 08:37.860]  Somehow it didn't deduct it.
[08:37.980 --> 08:39.380]  It's probably had a read error.
[08:39.520 --> 08:39.940]  I don't know.
[08:39.940 --> 08:43.120]  That would happen if you had a legitimate read error.
[08:43.320 --> 08:44.160]  And you know what happened?
[08:44.300 --> 08:47.200]  They wind up taking it out of innocent people later on to make up for it.
[08:47.280 --> 08:48.340]  They have to balance their books.
[08:48.580 --> 08:52.440]  The money that went into Mike's pocket came out of Emmanuel's pocket.
[08:52.440 --> 08:52.680]  All right.
[08:52.780 --> 08:54.300]  We're going to settle this after the show.
[08:54.360 --> 08:59.660]  It was probably, though, only $1.50 at the time because I've been using the monthly passes recently.
[08:59.840 --> 09:00.260]  I get to pay the 50 cents extra.
[09:00.360 --> 09:01.720]  Yeah, but now there's interest on it now.
[09:02.440 --> 09:03.440]  Believe me, there's a lot of interest.
[09:03.540 --> 09:09.260]  Now, Bernie, tell us about, first of all, the story behind what you were going through today and then tell us what happened today.
[09:09.940 --> 09:13.000]  I had to go to trial today, just like old times.
[09:13.560 --> 09:16.000]  Well, a slightly less serious charge.
[09:16.360 --> 09:19.980]  Not quite as Orwellian, but strange nonetheless.
[09:20.720 --> 09:30.240]  Back on October 5th, shortly after you got back from your world tour, I came up to visit you and other people on the show because Off the Hook was on a hiatus that week.
[09:30.240 --> 09:46.140]  And I decided to take a new way to New York instead of taking the SEPTA, which is the Philadelphia Mass Transit Authority, Southeastern Pennsylvania Transit Authority, instead of taking the SEPTA R7 to Trenton and then catching a New Jersey Transit train to Penn Station in New York,
[09:46.300 --> 09:53.280]  I opted to take PATCO, which is a train that goes across the Delaware River here, across the Ben Franklin Bridge, to Camden.
[09:53.280 --> 10:01.620]  And then I got this new light rail train they just put in service about a year or so ago called the Camden River Line.
[10:01.780 --> 10:04.920]  It's a direct line from Camden up to all these little towns up to Trenton.
[10:05.060 --> 10:11.000]  Very nice ride, very nice train, although the system cost $1 billion to build.
[10:11.660 --> 10:14.120]  The fare is $1.25 and well worth it.
[10:14.240 --> 10:15.440]  But I'd never ridden it before.
[10:15.440 --> 10:16.480]  I heard good things about it.
[10:16.480 --> 10:27.300]  And so I went to Camden via PATCO and bought my $1.25 ticket for the River Line, got on the train, and enjoyed my ride to Trenton, pulling into Trenton.
[10:27.660 --> 10:35.160]  A conductor-type person, although he looked more police-like, a fair enforcement officer is what his badge said.
[10:35.760 --> 10:36.580]  I asked for my ticket.
[10:36.600 --> 10:37.320]  I handed it to him.
[10:37.600 --> 10:46.140]  He looked at me strangely and started asking me a lot of personal questions like where I got on, my name, address, birthday, social security number.
[10:46.260 --> 10:47.840]  I'm like, whoa, what is all this about?
[10:49.980 --> 10:51.860]  And he said, step out of the train, sir.
[10:52.980 --> 10:53.700]  While it was moving?
[10:54.720 --> 10:55.960]  Well, this was after it finally.
[10:56.040 --> 10:59.620]  He started asking me questions as it was slowing through the halt.
[11:00.320 --> 11:01.780]  Yeah, step out of the train while it was moving.
[11:02.280 --> 11:02.780]  Well, I don't know.
[11:02.900 --> 11:04.080]  Cops these days, you know.
[11:04.480 --> 11:05.580]  You just never know.
[11:06.380 --> 11:08.460]  So he told me to sit on a bench on the platform.
[11:08.620 --> 11:09.300]  I said, no, thank you.
[11:09.360 --> 11:11.900]  I've been sitting for over an hour since we left Camden.
[11:12.040 --> 11:17.320]  And I continued to ask him what this is about.
[11:17.320 --> 11:21.540]  And he handed me a piece of paper he'd been writing all this information down.
[11:21.540 --> 11:25.340]  And it was a summons, a fine for $74.
[11:26.080 --> 11:27.660]  I'm like, what is this about?
[11:27.880 --> 11:30.500]  You mean all that time they didn't tell you why they were writing a summons?
[11:30.740 --> 11:31.740]  No, I didn't.
[11:32.820 --> 11:34.560]  I really didn't know what this was about.
[11:34.560 --> 11:36.220]  Because I was sure I didn't do anything wrong.
[11:36.220 --> 11:37.060]  I bought my ticket.
[11:37.060 --> 11:37.960]  I got on the train.
[11:38.160 --> 11:39.160]  I handed him my ticket.
[11:39.160 --> 11:39.880]  I was cooperative.
[11:40.660 --> 11:41.860]  What could go wrong?
[11:42.040 --> 11:52.240]  Well, it turns out it's a new fare system there where you have to purchase your ticket from one machine and then go to another machine and insert the ticket to validate it.
[11:52.840 --> 11:58.540]  Not unlike the systems we've experienced in Western European countries, but I've never seen in this country before.
[11:58.940 --> 12:01.320]  Yeah, it's very different from all the systems around it.
[12:01.320 --> 12:07.180]  And there was no obvious signage at the Camden train station indicating this.
[12:08.400 --> 12:10.080]  So I got fined.
[12:10.320 --> 12:15.020]  And the back of the citation said, you must report...
[12:15.580 --> 12:20.200]  If you plan to plead not guilty, you have to call the court within seven days.
[12:20.200 --> 12:26.260]  Well, it was written six days before the court date that was written on the citation.
[12:26.520 --> 12:28.140]  So I was kind of screwed.
[12:28.440 --> 12:35.340]  So it said on the ticket that if you don't show up, if you don't call them within seven days, you have to go back there twice.
[12:35.960 --> 12:40.900]  So I went there for my arraignment and explained the situation to the judge.
[12:41.000 --> 12:42.040]  And he stopped me.
[12:42.120 --> 12:44.340]  He said, I don't want to hear any excuses that you didn't know.
[12:44.840 --> 12:46.100]  Ignorance of the law is no excuse.
[12:46.220 --> 12:50.980]  And there were six other people there waiting with me who had experienced the same thing, apparently.
[12:51.240 --> 12:53.340]  It was a problem, understandably.
[12:55.060 --> 12:56.460]  So I started to explain.
[12:56.540 --> 13:01.800]  He said, well, you'll have a full chance to explain this at your full trial if you want to go to trial.
[13:01.940 --> 13:02.680]  And I said, sure, I do.
[13:02.800 --> 13:03.820]  So my trial was today.
[13:03.820 --> 13:19.400]  I prepared a detailed argument, not based out of ignorance of the law, but by the very wording of the statute on the summons, which said, quote, failure to validate, I'm sorry, failure to properly validate receipt.
[13:20.900 --> 13:22.520]  And like, hmm, what is this?
[13:22.820 --> 13:29.920]  So fortunately, I had the presence of mind to press yes to the button on the ticket machine that said, do you want a receipt?
[13:30.320 --> 13:30.820]  Why not?
[13:30.940 --> 13:31.580]  I'll have a new piece of paper.
[13:31.720 --> 13:32.440]  I'll take a look at it.
[13:32.440 --> 13:33.780]  So I had a receipt.
[13:33.980 --> 13:37.200]  And the officer who fined me never asked me for my receipt.
[13:37.420 --> 13:37.840]  Oh, boy.
[13:38.780 --> 13:40.600]  So I still had it, fortunately.
[13:40.600 --> 13:42.080]  I thought, well, this will be interesting.
[13:42.260 --> 13:46.100]  So you basically fought this case based on him making a mistake in the wording.
[13:46.420 --> 13:47.400]  Well, he didn't make it.
[13:47.460 --> 13:47.740]  He doesn't.
[13:47.860 --> 13:49.900]  The officer can't write the statute.
[13:50.480 --> 13:53.200]  That's a matter of law, New York, New Jersey law.
[13:53.320 --> 13:55.020]  I mean, the statute actually says failure.
[13:55.700 --> 13:58.700]  Quote, failure to properly validate receipt, end quote.
[13:59.780 --> 14:03.360]  It's pre-printed on the statute, on the citation.
[14:03.640 --> 14:03.900]  Okay.
[14:04.740 --> 14:11.720]  And he checked off that box and also hand-wrote the statutory number on the complaint as well.
[14:11.880 --> 14:15.200]  So there was no ambiguity as to what I was being charged with.
[14:15.200 --> 14:15.520]  Okay.
[14:15.660 --> 14:17.200]  Well, we need to move on.
[14:17.280 --> 14:18.260]  So tell us what happened.
[14:18.440 --> 14:23.380]  So real quick, I went there and I asked to court today and to my trial.
[14:23.520 --> 14:29.680]  And I told the judge that I wanted to examine the witness, the affair enforcement officer, James, who was there.
[14:30.040 --> 14:37.540]  And the judge wouldn't let me examine him or ask any questions of him, which I thought was probably unconstitutional.
[14:37.740 --> 14:38.500]  I just couldn't...
[14:38.500 --> 14:39.640]  He wouldn't let me ask questions.
[14:39.780 --> 14:42.660]  You asked me the questions, is what the judge told me.
[14:43.280 --> 14:51.700]  So all I could do was tell him that I had a really well-planned-out legal strategy, but it was all blown to hell when I wasn't able to...
[14:51.700 --> 14:54.160]  It's very hard to prove a case when you can't examine the witness.
[14:54.620 --> 14:55.060]  Right.
[14:55.480 --> 15:03.220]  So I just said, Your Honor, I was charged with failure to properly validate receipt, and this officer never even asked me for my receipt.
[15:03.220 --> 15:10.340]  So he had no reason to write the citation if he never saw me not validate something.
[15:12.120 --> 15:17.060]  And the judge said, Well, I'll take it to the receipt, and this piece of paper that says receipt is something else.
[15:17.260 --> 15:26.140]  And what I was trying to do was get a precedent put in effect, saying, Hey, this is a piece of bad law.
[15:26.420 --> 15:37.640]  The judge saw through that, and he realized that if he let me win on this, that lots of people would be clamoring for their money back who'd been charged with the same thing.
[15:37.640 --> 15:40.560]  And he said, The judge said this outright in court.
[15:40.560 --> 15:44.980]  He said, To fix this problem would require an act of the New Jersey State Legislature.
[15:45.120 --> 15:46.120]  So he said the word problem.
[15:46.260 --> 15:47.340]  He admitted there was a problem.
[15:47.420 --> 15:47.660]  Yes.
[15:48.000 --> 15:49.060]  He said, Well, he said to fix this.
[15:49.100 --> 15:52.540]  He said to fix this would require the New Jersey State Legislature.
[15:54.580 --> 15:57.400]  And so he admitted right there that there's a problem with the law.
[15:58.500 --> 16:00.960]  But he still found me guilty, and he said I could appeal.
[16:01.200 --> 16:06.940]  So I went over to the clerks to fill out the paperwork to appeal, which cost $75 to do.
[16:07.080 --> 16:09.140]  $75 to appeal, $74 ticket?
[16:09.540 --> 16:09.980]  Exactly.
[16:10.180 --> 16:11.200]  Oh, it gets better, though.
[16:11.460 --> 16:15.060]  You also have to pay for a copy of the court transcript.
[16:15.500 --> 16:18.240]  So the prosecutor has his own copy he doesn't have to pay for.
[16:18.720 --> 16:22.720]  And that's available for the small sum of $600.
[16:25.040 --> 16:25.920]  Oh, man.
[16:27.600 --> 16:29.800]  I understand why people torch cars now.
[16:29.800 --> 16:30.400]  I really do.
[16:31.240 --> 16:38.340]  You probably don't have a lot of people going to the appeals court when you have to pay $600 for a court transcript from your trial.
[16:39.500 --> 16:43.880]  So that's a little over my head financially to push this any farther.
[16:45.000 --> 16:48.860]  Bernie, what I would suggest at this point is just get as much publicity about this as possible.
[16:48.980 --> 16:52.540]  Write to the legislature in New Jersey, write to newspapers, talk on radio.
[16:52.540 --> 16:52.920]  Take care.
[16:53.080 --> 16:53.700]  I don't live in New Jersey.
[16:53.820 --> 16:54.760]  Well, it's not the point.
[16:54.820 --> 16:58.320]  The point is, you know, write to some newspapers over there and get your letter printed.
[16:58.320 --> 17:00.020]  Other people will realize that this is unfair.
[17:00.240 --> 17:01.540]  Maybe something will be done about it.
[17:01.720 --> 17:14.820]  I did find in one newspaper article online that approximately 5,000 people have been fined over the past year since the river line has been in effect for this, either for not having a ticket or for a failure to validate their ticket.
[17:15.720 --> 17:19.340]  Is there a way to get that broken down between the number of people that failed to validate?
[17:19.340 --> 17:20.060]  It didn't say.
[17:20.200 --> 17:21.580]  I could research that.
[17:21.800 --> 17:37.180]  But anyhow, I had a good legal argument, and the judge admitted that this was a problem with the law, but he still refused to find me not guilty, even though I was alleged to have done something that the officer couldn't have verified because he never even asked me for the receipt,
[17:37.220 --> 17:39.240]  which I was alleged to have not validated.
[17:39.240 --> 17:48.700]  Well, I mean, that's just a wording issue as far as I'm concerned, but the real issue is having a system that for some reason doesn't exist anyplace else and expecting people to understand it without having appropriate signs up.
[17:48.720 --> 17:50.240]  That's an ignorance of the law excuse.
[17:50.480 --> 17:50.700]  Yeah.
[17:50.800 --> 17:55.160]  Well, it's an ignorant law, too, because, you know, this kind of thing is not something that people around here are used to.
[17:55.220 --> 17:59.320]  They should at least, you know, guide people into the proper way to do it and not assume everybody knows it.
[18:01.140 --> 18:04.760]  I was going to say, Bernie, if you pursue this, you really should get a lawyer.
[18:05.040 --> 18:10.000]  And secondly, it reminds you of a classic line from Abbott and Costello, pay the $2.
[18:11.960 --> 18:13.740]  I paid to get on... I paid the ticket.
[18:14.180 --> 18:15.760]  I bought the ticket and I got on the train.
[18:15.880 --> 18:16.660]  You missed that.
[18:16.780 --> 18:18.240]  I bought my ticket and I got on the train.
[18:18.240 --> 18:18.820]  No, no, no, no.
[18:18.820 --> 18:19.580]  I understand that.
[18:19.580 --> 18:26.420]  But what I'm saying is at this point, you know, pay the $2 before it mounts up into God knows what else.
[18:26.420 --> 18:32.380]  Well, I mean, I think the point here is to stand up for, you know, something that's right as opposed to...
[18:32.380 --> 18:36.500]  No, I think that is actually your better thing, but it reminds me of the Abbott and Costello line.
[18:36.960 --> 18:41.620]  At my arraignment, the judge had, you know, three weeks ago, the arraignment, the same judge encouraged me.
[18:41.780 --> 18:48.500]  He said, sometimes if you think that you've been wronged by a system, you should stand up and fight for your rights.
[18:48.580 --> 18:49.560]  So that's exactly what I did.
[18:49.660 --> 18:51.460]  He was in a very, very different mood today.
[18:51.880 --> 19:04.600]  And I think he thought that this was going to be a train wreck if he made a decision in my favor because it would set up a precedent that, you know, how many thousands of people would say, hey, I bought my money back now.
[19:04.660 --> 19:06.940]  He could have suspended the fine, but he didn't do that either, did he?
[19:06.960 --> 19:07.840]  He didn't even do that.
[19:08.620 --> 19:16.860]  He found me not guilty and I paid the $74 and appealing it at the price of $675 does not seem likely.
[19:17.200 --> 19:19.560]  No, they sure have the deck stacked against people.
[19:21.460 --> 19:33.680]  It's a little bit like, though, you're subscribing to this sort of theory of the law, which is very popular among technology types, this sort of war games theory, where if you catch the law in a logical inconsistency, then the whole thing is expected to,
[19:33.680 --> 19:35.580]  like, blow up, usually in your favor.
[19:35.840 --> 19:37.820]  And it rarely works that way.
[19:37.960 --> 19:38.340]  You're right.
[19:39.840 --> 19:44.920]  There's a lot of practical things that come into effect that have nothing to do with logic, common sense, or justice.
[19:45.420 --> 19:48.680]  Let me... I don't understand the whole ticket validation system.
[19:48.820 --> 19:50.060]  I've never seen a system like that.
[19:50.140 --> 19:53.740]  You buy a ticket and then you have to go validate it before you get on the train?
[19:53.960 --> 19:59.800]  Yes, so they don't have to hire a bunch of people, conductors, to go around on the train punching holes in your ticket.
[20:00.520 --> 20:01.920]  And where is it validated?
[20:01.920 --> 20:02.680]  On the train?
[20:02.800 --> 20:03.260]  On the platform.
[20:03.260 --> 20:04.500]  No, there's a... on the platform.
[20:04.740 --> 20:07.640]  There's a little orange box you stick the ticket in.
[20:07.740 --> 20:09.480]  See, Los Angeles has a system similar to that.
[20:09.560 --> 20:13.900]  You buy the ticket and there's no ticket people, and you better have a ticket when the cops come on the train, and they are cops.
[20:14.660 --> 20:17.580]  But I don't think you have to validate the ticket through a separate machine, right?
[20:17.640 --> 20:18.400]  There's no validation.
[20:18.640 --> 20:20.780]  Yeah, you just buy the ticket and it's good for a certain amount of time.
[20:20.860 --> 20:24.820]  I guess... I guess the difference here is that you can buy the ticket and use it, you know, next week if you want.
[20:24.920 --> 20:26.060]  I don't know what the advantage...
[20:26.060 --> 20:27.320]  You can buy them in advance.
[20:27.420 --> 20:30.320]  You can buy a stack of them and then just validate them as you get on.
[20:30.320 --> 20:41.480]  It's just not clearly... there's no clear signage indicating that this is... if I were to write this again, and I'm not sure I have a good taste in my mouth after the whole experience, I would know what to do now.
[20:41.580 --> 20:48.080]  Well, I'd like to know what the nearest city to Camden is that has a system like this, and is it somewhere in Europe?
[20:49.200 --> 20:50.000]  That's what I'd like to know.
[20:50.220 --> 20:52.780]  Oh, there's one last technological issue on this.
[20:52.980 --> 20:54.620]  I was going to make another argument.
[20:56.500 --> 20:58.080]  I read deeper into the statute.
[20:58.380 --> 20:59.400]  I did some research online.
[20:59.400 --> 21:10.460]  It says that it has to be electronically stamped with the time and date, and the validation machines are not electronic.
[21:10.620 --> 21:11.440]  They're electromechanical.
[21:11.640 --> 21:14.140]  They have these rotating wheels that just go ka-chunk.
[21:14.240 --> 21:14.880]  All right, you know.
[21:14.940 --> 21:21.480]  But I think that would have been way over this judge's head if this was electromechanical and not electronic, so I just let that one go.
[21:21.480 --> 21:23.460]  I see now why judges get angry all the time.
[21:23.680 --> 21:24.280]  Jim, you had something?
[21:24.280 --> 21:30.500]  Yeah, I know of two systems similar to this, one through seeing it on film.
[21:31.400 --> 21:40.440]  Munich's subway, you get a ticket, and it has a stamp time and date on it, and the cops come on and find you on the spot if you don't have a valid ticket.
[21:40.760 --> 21:48.360]  But interestingly enough, 10 years ago when I was in San Francisco on the cable cars, you can get a three-day pass.
[21:48.360 --> 21:59.740]  And what it is is you scratch off the month and the days you want to use it, and then they just quickly examine it to make sure you're on it only during that month and those days.
[22:00.060 --> 22:05.480]  Otherwise, it's essentially blank, and if you haven't scratched it up, they make you scratch it off on the cable car.
[22:06.500 --> 22:06.840]  Interesting.
[22:07.360 --> 22:08.200]  Okay, let's move on.
[22:08.260 --> 22:09.960]  I've got a contest for you guys.
[22:10.840 --> 22:11.460]  Can I win?
[22:11.500 --> 22:12.140]  Tell me what this...
[22:12.140 --> 22:14.640]  Well, actually, don't say the answer if you know what this is, this sound.
[22:14.760 --> 22:15.320]  Listen carefully.
[22:26.140 --> 22:31.160]  I found this while I was looking through some really old tapes of mine, and it's a whole sequence.
[22:31.500 --> 22:33.720]  And actually, I'm going to issue the challenge to the listeners to call in.
[22:33.740 --> 22:34.840]  If you guys know, write it down.
[22:35.160 --> 22:36.720]  Same thing for you, Bernie, except you're in Philadelphia.
[22:37.320 --> 22:40.820]  And listen to the whole sequence, and if anybody knows what this is, I'll be impressed.
[23:40.450 --> 23:42.190]  Oh, the memories that brings back.
[23:42.430 --> 23:44.260]  But if you know the answer, Jim, don't say it out loud.
[23:44.340 --> 23:44.950]  Just write it down.
[23:45.060 --> 23:48.410]  But if anybody out there knows the answer, please call us, 212-209-2900.
[23:48.430 --> 23:50.500]  A little later on in the show when we're taking phone calls.
[23:51.410 --> 23:52.820]  Bernie, you don't know the answer to this, do you?
[23:53.340 --> 23:55.170]  I do, and I'm not going to give it away, though.
[23:55.300 --> 23:56.760]  I will tell everyone, though, that...
[23:56.760 --> 23:59.820]  Why don't you send an SMS text to somebody and...
[23:59.820 --> 24:03.060]  Well, because I have a Sprint PCS, and it makes it impossible to do that.
[24:03.190 --> 24:04.520]  Defeated by Sprint yet again.
[24:04.800 --> 24:10.720]  But I will say, it is known universally as an interval signal.
[24:10.980 --> 24:12.620]  Well, actually, you've said too much already.
[24:12.620 --> 24:19.220]  I prefer people get this on their own, so I'm going to turn you down until we have some phone calls coming in.
[24:19.380 --> 24:20.960]  Actually, we're going to take phone calls a little bit later on.
[24:21.430 --> 24:22.210]  You have an idea?
[24:22.280 --> 24:22.840]  I have a question.
[24:22.930 --> 24:23.500]  Okay, I have a question.
[24:23.710 --> 24:25.540]  There are two...
[24:26.670 --> 24:29.620]  For want of a better term, I'm going to call them pieces of music.
[24:29.780 --> 24:29.880]  Right.
[24:30.500 --> 24:33.840]  They're linked together, and they form one piece when you link them together.
[24:34.170 --> 24:34.450]  Really?
[24:34.480 --> 24:36.240]  There is one answer to this and one answer alone.
[24:36.320 --> 24:37.360]  There are a lot of partial answers.
[24:37.360 --> 24:44.150]  What Bernie gave you just now is a sort of a partial answer, but it's not nearly enough to qualify you as earning respect in my book.
[24:45.350 --> 24:47.450]  Let's continue with some interesting news, though.
[24:47.960 --> 24:49.320]  Today was an important day.
[24:49.690 --> 24:54.000]  Tony Blair suffered his first major defeat in eight years, if you can believe that.
[24:54.300 --> 24:57.460]  The terror laws were defeated.
[24:57.780 --> 24:59.040]  It sounds really bizarre.
[24:59.450 --> 25:16.690]  But he wanted to implement a 90-day period where people being held on suspicion of terrorism, God knows what that could mean, could be held for 90 days without charges, without anything being said about them, 90 days.
[25:17.540 --> 25:18.760]  Better than shooting them.
[25:18.840 --> 25:20.150]  Well, I don't know.
[25:20.210 --> 25:21.430]  It's one step away, it seems.
[25:21.540 --> 25:22.500]  But here's the thing.
[25:22.580 --> 25:27.620]  And this bill was defeated in the House of Commons, 322 to 291, a fairly close vote.
[25:28.480 --> 25:31.260]  Big majority of people are in favor of this over there.
[25:31.540 --> 25:36.360]  The British have lost their minds, and the Australians have too, and certainly we've lost our minds a long time ago.
[25:36.740 --> 25:38.980]  But they are in favor of 90 days.
[25:39.190 --> 25:49.480]  The reason being, and I think you guys will find this interesting, that's the amount of time the cops say they need to go through somebody's stuff, decrypt their files, look at the phone records, all that kind of thing.
[25:49.620 --> 25:54.120]  And the question I have to ask myself is, isn't that how they get the case in the first place?
[25:54.260 --> 26:01.860]  Isn't that how they find somebody and say, you're a suspect, we're going to arrest you and raid your house because we've looked at the evidence and we figured out that you're a bad guy?
[26:02.040 --> 26:09.450]  Instead, they can go into anybody's house and say, give us 90 days, we're going to look through all your stuff, see if you're guilty, see if you're talking to Al-Qaeda or whatever.
[26:09.740 --> 26:13.380]  And you languish in prison for 90 days without bail, without anything.
[26:13.760 --> 26:22.620]  You see, the first time they do it, they do it with secret illegal methods, and then it takes them 90 days to redo the whole investigation with actual warrants and things.
[26:23.090 --> 26:29.100]  Well, shortly after the 90-day thing failed, a 28-day one was passed, and that's seen as a big victory.
[26:29.460 --> 26:31.430]  You know, what is it in this country right now?
[26:32.020 --> 26:32.880]  Is it one day?
[26:33.000 --> 26:33.600]  Is it 24 hours?
[26:33.710 --> 26:33.800]  What?
[26:33.950 --> 26:36.450]  It depends if you're declared an enemy combatant or not.
[26:36.670 --> 26:37.060]  Yeah, there's that.
[26:37.210 --> 26:37.760]  There's that.
[26:38.450 --> 26:42.910]  But I've grown up believing that it's 24 hours, they have to charge you or let you go.
[26:43.020 --> 26:44.020]  Is that still true?
[26:44.260 --> 26:45.480]  It may depend.
[26:46.620 --> 26:47.210]  There are exceptions.
[26:47.500 --> 26:47.910]  What's that?
[26:48.500 --> 26:49.620]  There are exceptions.
[26:49.930 --> 26:51.190]  Okay, how many exceptions, though?
[26:51.240 --> 26:52.840]  Just the enemy combatant thing, or are there more?
[26:53.560 --> 26:57.060]  There's as many as the government wants to make, as it turns out.
[26:59.220 --> 27:03.760]  Basically, if they want to hold you longer, they'll figure out a way to do it, and that's how it happens in this country.
[27:04.060 --> 27:09.910]  Yeah, but to say 90 days is the norm, that's something that I just cannot believe the general public would support.
[27:10.220 --> 27:13.100]  It's not the norm here, but they can do it longer if they want here.
[27:13.240 --> 27:21.080]  But the thing is, if it passes muster over there, and it's for all intents and purposes it has, that most people want it over there, that means it's coming over here.
[27:21.120 --> 27:22.880]  At some point, they are going to do just that.
[27:23.460 --> 27:25.430]  And we'd better keep our eyes open.
[27:25.820 --> 27:27.260]  To keep up with the Joneses thing.
[27:27.260 --> 27:28.740]  But today is kind of weird.
[27:28.980 --> 27:31.580]  It's, you know, being hailed as a victory, but I don't see the victory.
[27:31.760 --> 27:32.710]  They doubled the time.
[27:32.820 --> 27:34.820]  It was 14 days before today, now it's 28.
[27:35.100 --> 27:37.170]  And the government was saying, maybe they'll try for 60.
[27:37.740 --> 27:39.020]  So it's a numbers game.
[27:39.170 --> 27:41.340]  But they're holding lots of people without evidence.
[27:41.840 --> 27:45.240]  We're doing it all the time in Guantanamo Bay, obviously, and getting away with it.
[27:45.360 --> 27:48.060]  But they're not Americans, so that's why we get away with it.
[27:50.000 --> 27:51.170]  Let's read a couple of letters.
[27:51.720 --> 27:54.260]  You can write to us, OTH at 2600.com.
[27:55.600 --> 28:02.600]  Here's a fun letter here that we got in feedback, some of the things we were saying last week.
[28:02.740 --> 28:09.620]  I just listened to the first 25 minutes of November 2nd's off the hook and had to stop it because I just couldn't suffer through it any longer.
[28:10.480 --> 28:12.560]  Undoubtedly, he's going to tell us about the rest of the show, though, anyway.
[28:12.860 --> 28:17.240]  It's 29 minutes into this show, so he's probably not listening.
[28:18.240 --> 28:25.690]  Am I the only one who remembers the photo you guys posted of the Secret Service agent back in the old days of the Bernie S.
[28:25.800 --> 28:26.040]  case?
[28:26.540 --> 28:30.650]  Now you guys want to get outraged over the outing of a supposedly covert agent.
[28:30.670 --> 28:32.410]  Your hypocrisy is disappointing.
[28:32.650 --> 28:33.840]  I would have used a stronger word.
[28:33.910 --> 28:35.360]  I would have said your hypocrisy is outrageous.
[28:35.800 --> 28:37.880]  But, you know, disappointed just seems so mild.
[28:38.080 --> 28:38.690]  I don't know.
[28:40.240 --> 28:43.540]  By the way, Novak called the CIA to confirm Plame's employment.
[28:43.800 --> 28:45.210]  They confirmed that she worked there.
[28:45.280 --> 28:47.150]  How covert could she have possibly been?
[28:47.190 --> 28:48.500]  You guys are starting to sound like rebel.
[28:49.040 --> 28:51.880]  Remember when off the hook was about freaking and hacking and cool stuff like that?
[28:51.980 --> 28:53.020]  Any chance of bringing that back?
[28:53.150 --> 28:54.120]  Signed Bill from Florida.
[28:54.360 --> 28:54.960]  I'd love to.
[28:55.210 --> 28:56.580]  Well, yeah, you know, and I think we do.
[28:56.710 --> 29:01.670]  I think we talk about the technological things that go on in relation to this.
[29:01.720 --> 29:03.500]  I think we've been doing that tonight and we did that last week.
[29:04.040 --> 29:13.060]  But it is of interest to everybody in the community to see things like this, to see how the government works, to see the various tricks and skullduggery they're up to.
[29:13.120 --> 29:17.020]  And you yourself even brought up something in our past that relates to this.
[29:17.190 --> 29:19.650]  So obviously, yeah, it all ties in.
[29:19.740 --> 29:20.780]  And let me tell you the difference.
[29:21.120 --> 29:34.170]  Okay, if we out somebody who is a Secret Service agent or CIA agent or somebody who's following us around or committing some sort of injustice to us, that information is already out there, all right?
[29:34.190 --> 29:39.360]  That person is either doing a very sloppy job or we found out about it through some public bulletin board system or something like that.
[29:39.460 --> 29:42.540]  If the government puts it out there, they're putting it out there.
[29:42.710 --> 29:43.480]  Big difference.
[29:43.710 --> 29:54.100]  So that's why it makes a huge difference if the government is actually saying this person is a CIA agent.
[29:54.210 --> 29:58.710]  And if we say this is a CIA agent, because if we say it, the news is already out there.
[29:58.950 --> 29:59.020]  Okay?
[29:59.190 --> 29:59.540]  Difference.
[29:59.540 --> 30:04.960]  There's also a large difference between any of us trying to stop the government from doing what it does.
[30:05.220 --> 30:14.840]  And from Scooter Libby or any of these people trying to stop the government from doing what it was being that they're the government and they're supposed to like believe in its mission.
[30:14.930 --> 30:18.540]  I didn't sign any contracts saying I'm not going to say this guy's a Secret Service agent.
[30:18.690 --> 30:20.600]  I never I mean, I'm not bound by that.
[30:20.910 --> 30:30.840]  But if, you know, Cheney or Bush or people like that are going around punishing people by outing CIA agents, yeah, that's outrageous, regardless of how you feel about the war or about the CIA or anything like that.
[30:31.020 --> 30:33.040]  And, you know, they should be called to account for it.
[30:33.100 --> 30:34.580]  I think we should all be very happy that they are.
[30:35.120 --> 30:38.120]  And Election Day yesterday was one example of this, I think.
[30:39.300 --> 30:40.880]  Republicans losing all over the place.
[30:41.240 --> 30:42.150]  One in the city.
[30:43.040 --> 30:43.880]  Yeah, yeah.
[30:45.120 --> 30:45.460]  Joy.
[30:45.930 --> 30:47.980]  I was prevented from voting.
[30:48.240 --> 30:49.190]  You were prevented from voting?
[30:49.190 --> 30:49.430]  How?
[30:49.430 --> 30:54.540]  I've been voting at the same polling place for six years.
[30:55.210 --> 30:57.080]  And they always have my name in the book.
[30:57.080 --> 31:00.800]  And I went there yesterday and my name wasn't in the book.
[31:01.460 --> 31:02.190]  My goodness.
[31:02.190 --> 31:02.840]  What happened?
[31:03.190 --> 31:04.820]  They couldn't figure it out.
[31:04.980 --> 31:05.560]  And they called.
[31:06.540 --> 31:13.460]  So I went home and I got my voter registration card and my passport to show them all, you know, all my info.
[31:13.460 --> 31:15.260]  And they're like, OK, you're not in the book.
[31:15.260 --> 31:16.170]  But you're still not in the book.
[31:16.300 --> 31:21.480]  So they called the Bureau of Voter Registration or whatever here in Philadelphia.
[31:22.000 --> 31:29.740]  And it turns out that there's been a recent linking of computers between DMV and voter registration.
[31:30.170 --> 31:36.690]  And I recently had my driver's license information.
[31:36.690 --> 31:40.280]  I had the address changed to my P.O.
[31:40.280 --> 31:40.960]  box address.
[31:41.580 --> 31:44.710]  And the... which you're not supposed to do, but I did it anyway.
[31:45.980 --> 31:47.620]  And I figured out a way around it.
[31:48.170 --> 31:57.100]  And the... that became... the physical address of the post office became my new voter registration address, which is in a different ward.
[31:57.430 --> 31:57.860]  Oh.
[31:58.800 --> 32:01.950]  And this was all done without my knowledge, which is very strange.
[32:02.450 --> 32:09.720]  So I'm going to go over to the voter registration and change my address back to what it had always been.
[32:10.860 --> 32:12.720]  And we'll see what happens.
[32:12.950 --> 32:13.460]  But it was very odd.
[32:13.690 --> 32:21.480]  They were... they were... after many phone calls to important people on the phone there, they were able to let me vote on the machine.
[32:21.840 --> 32:22.540]  Oh, OK.
[32:22.540 --> 32:23.340]  So you did get to vote.
[32:23.690 --> 32:26.880]  It took an hour of phone calls and back and forth.
[32:27.000 --> 32:27.950]  There was much consternation.
[32:28.210 --> 32:30.710]  At my particular ward, only 115 people voted.
[32:31.500 --> 32:34.360]  And mine was the only one that...
[32:34.360 --> 32:35.480]  It was a problem the whole day.
[32:35.740 --> 32:36.910]  Well, I would have expected that.
[32:36.980 --> 32:40.450]  But you were actually able to vote at your place without your name being there.
[32:41.210 --> 32:47.450]  They... they had me fill out all these special forms and they let me go to the machine, which is this very unsatisfying electronic machine now.
[32:47.520 --> 32:51.210]  There's no big heavy lever you pull and go... but... that's life.
[32:51.520 --> 32:51.780]  OK.
[32:52.190 --> 32:52.800]  Go ahead, Jim.
[32:52.910 --> 32:59.190]  Interestingly enough, yesterday was the last day in... for New York State's mechanical voting machines.
[32:59.540 --> 33:02.950]  Due to federal law, we're going to have electronic machines from here on...
[33:02.950 --> 33:04.040]  Electronic machines next year?
[33:04.040 --> 33:05.120]  You got it, Boyle.
[33:05.600 --> 33:06.360]  Oh, my goodness.
[33:06.650 --> 33:07.820]  Well, I can hardly wait.
[33:08.410 --> 33:09.960]  I'm going to have a field day with these things.
[33:10.300 --> 33:15.840]  We'll just have to see what kind of computers we have to play with on election day next time.
[33:16.000 --> 33:18.670]  I might even register with a party so I can find the primaries early.
[33:18.910 --> 33:19.100]  Ooh.
[33:19.410 --> 33:20.190]  You missed your chance.
[33:21.000 --> 33:22.020]  Well, for next year.
[33:22.220 --> 33:22.650]  No, no, no.
[33:22.740 --> 33:23.080]  What do you mean?
[33:23.410 --> 33:26.240]  In New York State, New York State has very corrupt election law.
[33:26.410 --> 33:32.150]  And if you fill out a change of party form today, it takes effect after the next November.
[33:32.150 --> 33:32.820]  Oh, really?
[33:33.040 --> 33:34.520]  What if I'm not with any party?
[33:34.720 --> 33:35.520]  It's not a change.
[33:35.670 --> 33:36.480]  It's an initiation.
[33:36.480 --> 33:36.800]  It's still a change.
[33:36.960 --> 33:37.170]  Really?
[33:37.300 --> 33:37.560]  Yes.
[33:38.410 --> 33:43.060]  New York State election law really favors the major parties.
[33:43.170 --> 33:47.480]  Well, then I'll swap IDs with somebody and sneak in during... I'll figure it out.
[33:47.520 --> 33:47.860]  Don't worry.
[33:47.860 --> 33:48.280]  Go ahead.
[33:48.460 --> 33:48.930]  I've got this covered.
[33:49.500 --> 33:49.840]  Okay.
[33:49.950 --> 33:56.380]  Speaking of leaks, the CIA, we talked about this a little bit last week, the prisons all over the world, the CIA is sponsoring.
[33:57.040 --> 34:02.820]  They've taken the first step towards a criminal inquiry into who told the media that it runs secret jails abroad.
[34:03.260 --> 34:04.410]  That's brilliant, isn't it?
[34:04.480 --> 34:07.220]  That's basically saying, yeah, we do run secret jails abroad.
[34:08.360 --> 34:11.300]  We're mad as hell about this and we're going to find whoever leaked that.
[34:11.600 --> 34:18.080]  Well, you know, whoever leaked that, they deserve a handshake, I think, because this is, you know, this is something that the world needs to know about.
[34:18.520 --> 34:23.640]  And, you know, it's another instance of sometimes there are good leaks, sometimes there are bad leaks.
[34:24.640 --> 34:33.520]  Apparently, this whole secret prison thing was discussed at a dinner for Republicans the day before the Post came out with its thing.
[34:33.660 --> 34:35.460]  So there's some suspicion that it was one of them.
[34:35.880 --> 34:37.700]  How many Republicans were at that dinner there?
[34:37.800 --> 34:38.240]  I don't know.
[34:38.410 --> 34:39.080]  I wasn't invited.
[34:39.980 --> 34:40.380]  Okay.
[34:40.380 --> 34:41.660]  That's pretty weird.
[34:42.600 --> 34:43.580]  And do you hear about this?
[34:43.600 --> 34:45.620]  This is a fascinating story.
[34:45.800 --> 34:54.260]  The ship at sea that was almost boarded by pirates, it was a cruise ship, a cruise ship, much like the one I was on earlier this year.
[34:54.640 --> 34:59.480]  And apparently these pirates off the coast of Somalia wanted to board it.
[34:59.520 --> 35:01.540]  They started firing automatic weapons at it.
[35:01.720 --> 35:09.020]  And initially it was reported that the cruise ship was just able to outmaneuver them or just go faster or bear down on them or something.
[35:09.080 --> 35:13.200]  But now it seems as if they use some kind of a sonic weapon.
[35:13.430 --> 35:14.240]  You know anything about this, Bernie?
[35:15.300 --> 35:15.460]  Yeah.
[35:15.540 --> 35:19.620]  This is a very little publicized system from a company called Sonic Works.
[35:19.860 --> 35:24.140]  You can go to sonicworks.com and read up some information on this.
[35:24.260 --> 35:28.820]  It's basically kind of like a phased array radar or phased array sonar.
[35:28.940 --> 35:39.640]  All these transducers in the bottom of the hull of the ship that can determine with amazing accuracy to within like millimeter ranges over like 100, 200 meters.
[35:39.640 --> 35:50.620]  They can determine within a couple of millimeters of any foreign object coming near the ship, whether it's a scuba diver or a boatload of terrorists in a raft or whatever.
[35:50.920 --> 36:07.920]  And then there's this other thing that shoots a focused beam of acoustic energy underwater at the object, which can have a force of something like 300 pounds of thrust.
[36:08.420 --> 36:16.440]  So it's kind of like a... it's acoustic, but yet it has physical mass movement behind it.
[36:16.600 --> 36:19.260]  And apparently the military has been using this for years.
[36:19.280 --> 36:22.120]  You can imagine that the president's yacht is equipped with this kind of stuff.
[36:22.600 --> 36:27.860]  So the frogmen, the evil frogmen don't come up and stick a bomb on the bottom of the boat.
[36:28.020 --> 36:29.700]  They'll be knocked out of commission quickly.
[36:30.240 --> 36:39.960]  So... but that's... that and some evasive maneuvers is what saved this very, very luxurious cruise liner from getting invaded by these...
[36:39.960 --> 36:40.800]  Well, it's interesting.
[36:41.000 --> 36:43.200]  It's interesting how the U.S.
[36:43.320 --> 36:43.900]  military and U.S.
[36:43.980 --> 36:45.380]  government and I guess now U.S.
[36:45.480 --> 36:49.080]  companies are increasingly just using loud noise as a way to get their way.
[36:49.700 --> 36:53.120]  Manuel Noriega, for instance, that's how they tried to roust him.
[36:53.560 --> 36:57.400]  They had one of these devices, I believe, at the RNC, didn't it?
[36:57.480 --> 36:58.980]  Was it one of the same devices, do you think?
[36:59.540 --> 37:06.620]  Well, that probably... unless it was the fish tank thing you were talking about, where they put all the protesters in the giant fish tank and they did the... no.
[37:06.940 --> 37:12.480]  This was... this particular system is an underwater system.
[37:12.480 --> 37:13.380]  Oh, it was underwater.
[37:13.680 --> 37:14.120]  Oh, I see.
[37:14.220 --> 37:15.060]  It was an underwater system.
[37:16.240 --> 37:23.540]  But what happened to RNC was basically these ultrasonic horns that cause lots of pain and discomfort.
[37:24.560 --> 37:27.720]  Well, they didn't actually use it, but it would have caused lots of pain and discomfort.
[37:27.900 --> 37:30.040]  But they found that they could do that without the machine.
[37:30.340 --> 37:33.780]  Yes, they can do that with clubs and things like... and mace and stuff like that.
[37:34.880 --> 37:35.280]  Interesting.
[37:35.600 --> 37:35.740]  Okay.
[37:35.920 --> 37:37.660]  Well, adventure on the high seas there.
[37:38.320 --> 37:45.220]  By the way, I never told you guys about this, but when I was on the high seas crossing the Pacific Ocean, do you know I committed piracy on the high seas?
[37:45.460 --> 37:46.140]  Yeah, it's true.
[37:46.600 --> 37:47.560]  Let me tell you what happened.
[37:47.660 --> 37:49.620]  I was doing all kinds of things.
[37:49.620 --> 37:52.780]  I was editing radio programs.
[37:52.780 --> 37:54.940]  I was working on 2600.
[37:55.540 --> 38:02.360]  And I'm not going to say which particular piece of software I was using at the time, but I will say one of the pieces of software that I legitimately bought.
[38:02.540 --> 38:07.660]  And I got to say, every time I legitimately buy software, I wind up regretting it because something stupid happens.
[38:07.980 --> 38:09.180]  And this was no exception.
[38:09.320 --> 38:16.200]  In the middle of the Pacific Ocean, I start up my computer, load the program, and it says, this program is improperly installed.
[38:16.740 --> 38:19.240]  I'm like, okay, why is it suddenly improperly installed?
[38:19.300 --> 38:20.140]  I used it yesterday.
[38:20.300 --> 38:21.860]  I haven't done anything to this machine since then.
[38:22.700 --> 38:25.320]  So I go through the whole uninstall, reinstall process.
[38:25.420 --> 38:27.980]  And of course, it wants my serial number, which I don't have with me.
[38:28.080 --> 38:32.800]  That's sitting on another computer, which I could access if I was on the internet, which I was not on in the middle of the Pacific Ocean.
[38:33.540 --> 38:47.060]  So I had to, using my satellite phone, contact a friend of mine and have that friend go out onto the internet and find some pirated registration codes so that I could use the software I had paid for.
[38:47.160 --> 38:51.440]  So yes, I entered pirated software codes on the Pacific Ocean.
[38:51.880 --> 38:54.760]  And, you know, to this day, I'm still using those codes instead of mine.
[38:54.920 --> 38:58.040]  Now, which cost more, the satellite phone call or the software itself?
[38:58.040 --> 39:00.000]  Well, it was cheap because I just made the phone call.
[39:00.080 --> 39:02.040]  The phone call lasted about a minute.
[39:02.140 --> 39:02.620]  That was a dollar.
[39:03.460 --> 39:05.380]  And I had him SMS me back.
[39:05.500 --> 39:10.500]  And SMS, for some reason, SMSing to a satellite phone didn't cost anything, at least not for me to receive.
[39:10.500 --> 39:11.760]  And I don't think for you to send.
[39:12.400 --> 39:14.040]  You sent me some messages.
[39:14.280 --> 39:17.220]  I might have paid the international SMS fee, which is a quarter.
[39:17.900 --> 39:18.440]  It's nothing.
[39:18.560 --> 39:20.840]  Yeah, it's a great way to send messages back and forth.
[39:20.880 --> 39:23.960]  We found some, you know, ways to send free messages.
[39:24.040 --> 39:28.640]  On the QM2, you were able to send me messages on my TV set for some reason.
[39:29.380 --> 39:31.320]  If I read the message, it would cost money.
[39:31.360 --> 39:33.020]  But if I looked at the title, it didn't cost anything.
[39:33.220 --> 39:35.880]  So you were able to convey some information to me there.
[39:36.460 --> 39:39.480]  Yeah, you know, you have to figure these things out as you go along.
[39:39.620 --> 39:44.480]  And something else that I discovered, this is very bad, actually, a practice of T-Mobile.
[39:44.600 --> 39:47.340]  And you T-Mobile customers out there, you might want to take some notice of this.
[39:47.660 --> 39:50.240]  One of the radio programs, I remember specifically which one it was.
[39:50.400 --> 39:53.180]  I was on the Trans-Siberian Express talking to you guys.
[39:53.440 --> 39:56.800]  I was alternating between the satellite phone and the GSM phone.
[39:57.000 --> 39:57.420]  All right.
[39:57.880 --> 40:02.040]  And when I couldn't call you on the satellite phone, you would call me on the GSM phone.
[40:02.080 --> 40:03.060]  I believe that's how it worked.
[40:04.420 --> 40:09.840]  I looked at the bill, and I saw the calls, like two 20-minute calls on the GSM.
[40:10.420 --> 40:15.460]  And in between that are a couple of calls to 123 or star 123.
[40:15.800 --> 40:16.640]  And that's voicemail.
[40:17.280 --> 40:17.720]  Okay.
[40:17.860 --> 40:21.340]  And T-Mobile lands, dialing star 123 gets you voicemail.
[40:21.420 --> 40:22.900]  And they charge you a certain amount for that.
[40:23.060 --> 40:24.340]  They charge you a lot more if you're overseas.
[40:24.640 --> 40:33.080]  Now, do you really think in the middle of the radio program, while I'm waiting for you guys to call me after being disconnected, I'm going to say, hey, I think I'm going to check my voicemail now.
[40:33.200 --> 40:34.120]  No, of course not.
[40:34.280 --> 40:35.100]  I'm not going to do that.
[40:35.500 --> 40:46.940]  What T-Mobile apparently does, and I don't make this accusation lightly, but it sure looks that way, they inject random voicemail calls into your bill because who is going to object to that?
[40:47.040 --> 40:49.780]  Who's going to say, no, I didn't call voicemail at this particular time.
[40:49.960 --> 40:53.280]  Everybody calls voicemail at some time at some point in the month.
[40:53.540 --> 40:58.340]  Except I know for a fact, I calling voicemail was the last thing on my mind there.
[41:00.260 --> 41:08.920]  Allegedly, in some circumstances, when you're traveling abroad, you can be billed for when people are leaving you voicemail.
[41:09.580 --> 41:11.180]  Well, nobody was leaving me voicemail.
[41:11.380 --> 41:15.540]  Well, but we might have connected to your voicemail system and said we don't want to leave him a voicemail.
[41:15.640 --> 41:17.260]  We want him on the radio and hung right up.
[41:19.040 --> 41:20.360]  You're not even connecting to me.
[41:20.500 --> 41:21.900]  You're connecting to something local here.
[41:22.540 --> 41:23.980]  You know, it's... This is what I've heard.
[41:24.000 --> 41:27.300]  There's always a possibility of timestamps, you know, possibly.
[41:27.540 --> 41:28.700]  But there's no call... No, no, no.
[41:28.800 --> 41:30.520]  Okay, I'll look into that possibility.
[41:30.520 --> 41:34.260]  But that's bizarre if you get charged when somebody else calls you and you don't even pick up the phone.
[41:34.380 --> 41:35.160]  I've never heard of that.
[41:36.560 --> 41:40.900]  Okay, so that's a little fun on the trip that took place this summer.
[41:41.520 --> 41:43.960]  Let me read one more letter, then we'll take some phone calls.
[41:44.020 --> 41:45.900]  212-209-2900.
[41:46.700 --> 41:47.800]  Longtime listener, big fan.
[41:47.800 --> 41:48.340]  You guys are great.
[41:48.340 --> 41:49.220]  Thanks for everything you do.
[41:49.340 --> 41:49.880]  Blah, blah, blah.
[41:51.480 --> 41:53.660]  Well, it's just, you know, everybody says that.
[41:53.860 --> 41:55.980]  We like to hear the hate mail.
[41:56.080 --> 41:57.180]  That's always more fun.
[41:57.640 --> 41:58.560]  No, seriously.
[41:58.740 --> 41:58.860]  Thanks.
[41:58.960 --> 41:59.320]  Thanks for writing.
[41:59.740 --> 42:01.160]  I'll try to keep this as brief as possible.
[42:01.240 --> 42:06.200]  In Virginia, all liquor sales are conducted by a government-controlled slash own store.
[42:06.400 --> 42:09.700]  www.abc.state.va.us.
[42:09.820 --> 42:15.040]  We don't have mag strips anymore, but we do have barcodes and skater codes.
[42:15.540 --> 42:16.560]  Not sure what they're called.
[42:16.560 --> 42:18.700]  That's kind of an interesting phrase.
[42:18.880 --> 42:21.080]  I had them on my military ID many years before this.
[42:21.780 --> 42:24.380]  All store clerks type the last four digits of the ID.
[42:25.320 --> 42:28.500]  By the way, they're running Windows 98 SE here for some reason.
[42:29.260 --> 42:31.620]  How much info could be in the last four digits?
[42:31.860 --> 42:33.800]  Not many use social security number anymore.
[42:34.520 --> 42:36.340]  It only covers 10,000 people.
[42:36.960 --> 42:41.320]  And I know they're up to something, but what is it exactly that they're up to?
[42:41.800 --> 42:42.620]  Good question.
[42:42.800 --> 42:43.240]  Good question.
[42:43.280 --> 42:45.560]  And it's good to notice that they're doing this.
[42:45.760 --> 42:52.800]  I'm going to guess that it's actually not to do anything with your information, but to force the clerks to actually look at your ID.
[42:53.600 --> 42:54.820]  It's probably something like that.
[42:54.880 --> 42:56.900]  A lot of times they seem to do that with credit cards.
[42:57.060 --> 43:06.920]  They make the cashier enter the last four digits of the card number, and that forces them to pick up the card and, you know, check the signature, which they're supposed to do, but doesn't really mean anything at all.
[43:07.040 --> 43:09.500]  Essentially, I went to a place today that required ID.
[43:09.700 --> 43:20.100]  I won't say any more than that, but, you know, increasingly you go into office buildings to, you know, visit people or do whatever, and they ask for ID, and they print out a little visitor pass, and you stick it on your shirt.
[43:20.860 --> 43:22.700]  I was with somebody who used a license.
[43:22.820 --> 43:31.520]  What they did was they scanned his license, printed his photo, recorded his information, and put all that onto a little paper sticky thing that he put on his shirt.
[43:32.040 --> 43:35.060]  I showed them my passport, and they said, just write down your name.
[43:36.080 --> 43:37.760]  And, you know, they didn't even keep my name.
[43:37.800 --> 43:39.420]  I wrote it down on the thing that I stuck to myself.
[43:39.700 --> 43:40.840]  So that's the trick, folks.
[43:40.980 --> 43:43.100]  Don't use the standard form of ID.
[43:43.100 --> 43:45.740]  Use something that they don't understand how to deal with.
[43:45.860 --> 43:48.960]  But you'll get some people that, you know, will balk at that, too.
[43:49.320 --> 43:52.280]  I remember I was with my father, who doesn't have U.S.
[43:52.680 --> 43:59.220]  citizenship, and he brought his passport to a bank, and they said that it was invalid ID, and they couldn't do any transactions.
[43:59.620 --> 44:02.400]  Yeah, much like the guy who tried to buy liquor with the passport.
[44:02.400 --> 44:02.960]  It didn't work.
[44:03.140 --> 44:05.880]  Here's another letter from Justin from Connecticut.
[44:06.180 --> 44:14.720]  In response to the liquor stores keeping personal information, there's a liquor store in Brewster, New York, that actually places every photo ID under a video camera they have on the counter.
[44:14.900 --> 44:17.480]  The clerk does it so fast, I doubt many people notice.
[44:19.280 --> 44:21.760]  Man, it's good that people are out there paying attention.
[44:22.520 --> 44:37.520]  Again, you can write to us, OTH at 2600.com, or our snail mail address is off the hook, care of WBAI, 120 Wall Street, 10th floor, New York, New York, 1-0-0-0-5.
[44:38.240 --> 44:46.900]  And, uh, oh gosh, we have a full bank of phones, so let's see if anybody out there, remember, if you know what the secret sound is, let us know what that is.
[44:48.920 --> 44:50.880]  It's there, somewhere.
[44:58.860 --> 45:00.400]  And, good evening, you're on the air.
[45:01.960 --> 45:02.700]  Go ahead.
[45:03.280 --> 45:04.220]  Is anybody there?
[45:05.040 --> 45:06.740]  Okay, you gotta speak up fast.
[45:07.160 --> 45:08.580]  Good evening, you're on the air.
[45:09.840 --> 45:10.620]  Go ahead.
[45:11.280 --> 45:12.300]  Do you have their sound?
[45:12.480 --> 45:12.640]  Oh.
[45:12.680 --> 45:14.640]  Good evening, uh, I'm just curious.
[45:14.840 --> 45:35.480]  I have been observing passengers removing notebook computers, and as a frequent traveler for flying, is it technological feasible for the government to have in place a device or mechanism that has the capabilities of reading or copying a hard drive, or any static memory container that passes through the x-ray machines at U.S.
[45:35.900 --> 45:35.900]  airports?
[45:36.760 --> 45:44.100]  Uh, not, not to, not when they pass through the x-ray machine, but they can certainly kind of take your bag really quickly, remove the hard drive.
[45:44.380 --> 45:48.140]  A lot of, a lot of laptops make this really easy, and, uh, and copy the contents.
[45:48.260 --> 45:51.660]  And there are actually high-speed, uh, devices designed to do this for government use.
[45:52.220 --> 45:53.580]  Um, but I, I find it unlikely.
[45:53.740 --> 45:58.220]  Just keep an eye on your bag, and there's nothing that's going to happen inside the x-ray machine that's going to get your data.
[45:58.820 --> 46:02.760]  But, uh, as an alternative, if you're still paranoid, you can certainly encrypt your file system.
[46:03.380 --> 46:03.740]  Absolutely.
[46:04.220 --> 46:04.760]  Very well done.
[46:04.880 --> 46:05.320]  Thank you, Bernie.
[46:07.100 --> 46:10.600]  If you guys could babble just a little bit longer, I'm trying to just have Bernie back.
[46:10.600 --> 46:15.160]  One story that, uh, that was, uh, on the blog land, uh, this week.
[46:15.320 --> 46:28.740]  The White House, uh, Scott McClellan, who's the, the president, uh, was asked a question about Karl Rove, and he said, uh, that's accurate, where we know that, uh, Scooter Libby also had conversations, was the question.
[46:29.060 --> 46:40.920]  Uh, and the White House official transcript says that Scott McClellan says, I don't think that's accurate, uh, but the Congressional Quarterly and Federal News Services, uh, has what he actually says.
[46:41.060 --> 46:42.400]  You can get the audio and listen.
[46:42.580 --> 46:44.060]  What he actually says is, that's accurate.
[46:44.580 --> 46:58.360]  So not only did the White House edit its transcript for what, uh, he probably meant to say rather than what he actually did say, they have sent letters to the other, uh, publishers of the transcript, asking them to please correct their, uh, transcripts.
[46:58.420 --> 47:00.500]  So wait, you're saying that they actually are changing what he said?
[47:00.840 --> 47:03.960]  And is audio, audio proof that he said something different?
[47:04.160 --> 47:05.340]  Audio and video, yeah.
[47:06.100 --> 47:06.540]  Fascinating.
[47:06.800 --> 47:07.680]  It's very strange.
[47:07.720 --> 47:08.640]  It's very Orwellian.
[47:08.760 --> 47:10.280]  No, I don't think it's that Orwellian.
[47:10.280 --> 47:10.780]  I mean, uh...
[47:10.780 --> 47:14.900]  They're going back and they're changing what somebody said and telling people to change the transcripts?
[47:14.920 --> 47:19.140]  Neil Armstrong insists he said, one small step for a man.
[47:19.320 --> 47:19.440]  But he didn't.
[47:19.440 --> 47:20.220]  He messed it up.
[47:20.320 --> 47:21.500]  Everybody knows he messed it up.
[47:21.620 --> 47:21.860]  No.
[47:22.020 --> 47:23.940]  The one line of his life and he got it wrong.
[47:24.000 --> 47:28.620]  No, there, there are silent gaps in, in the sound when you're from the moon.
[47:28.740 --> 47:32.520]  Look, there are other places where you can hear it because it's in the middle of a long Okay, but this guy wasn't on the moon.
[47:32.660 --> 47:33.420]  He was in the White House.
[47:33.520 --> 47:34.680]  I know it's close, but come on.
[47:34.920 --> 47:36.060]  He miss, he misspoke.
[47:36.240 --> 47:37.480]  This is probably the most...
[47:37.480 --> 47:38.580]  Fine, but you misspeak.
[47:38.580 --> 47:39.860]  It's still part of the transcript.
[47:40.520 --> 47:42.700]  I'm sorry, but you gotta, you gotta live with your mistakes.
[47:42.940 --> 47:47.360]  I know it's very hard for the Bush administration to deal with, but, you know, you gotta, you gotta...
[47:47.360 --> 47:50.440]  I agree that you have to live with your mistakes, but this is not a smoking gun.
[47:51.220 --> 47:53.460]  It's a smoking gun of the way they think, I believe.
[47:53.780 --> 48:00.100]  I'm not saying that the actual quote is clearly he's, he, you know, erred in speaking, which is fine.
[48:00.240 --> 48:01.080]  People do it all the time.
[48:01.260 --> 48:04.280]  But what's odd is that the White House is insisting that he didn't err.
[48:04.440 --> 48:05.060]  Yeah, that's, that's...
[48:05.060 --> 48:05.760]  There I agree with you.
[48:05.780 --> 48:06.360]  That's the weird part.
[48:06.440 --> 48:07.060]  Bernie, are you back?
[48:07.460 --> 48:08.140]  I am back.
[48:08.140 --> 48:08.860]  I'm so sorry.
[48:09.040 --> 48:12.460]  We, we had the wrong button hit, and, uh, and you just disappeared with that other caller.
[48:13.000 --> 48:14.740]  So, uh, you're back now, and that's what's important.
[48:14.860 --> 48:15.800]  Let's take another phone call.
[48:17.020 --> 48:17.760]  And good evening.
[48:17.860 --> 48:18.380]  You're on the air.
[48:19.380 --> 48:19.660]  Hello?
[48:19.960 --> 48:20.420]  Yes, go ahead.
[48:20.940 --> 48:23.080]  I think it's, uh, carousel music.
[48:23.360 --> 48:26.240]  Well, that's, that's, that's awfully close, but no, it's not.
[48:26.600 --> 48:31.100]  It starts out sounding like a child's toy, and then it goes to martial music.
[48:31.340 --> 48:31.960]  Yeah, it's interesting.
[48:32.340 --> 48:33.220]  It's totally interesting.
[48:33.220 --> 48:34.200]  I can't wait to find out.
[48:34.340 --> 48:35.460]  Hi, Emmanuel and gentlemen.
[48:35.880 --> 48:36.180]  Okay.
[48:36.480 --> 48:36.800]  It's Pam.
[48:37.180 --> 48:38.100]  Oh, hey, how you doing?
[48:38.400 --> 48:39.160]  I'm excellent.
[48:39.160 --> 48:39.760]  How are you?
[48:40.160 --> 48:40.760]  Good, good.
[48:41.260 --> 48:42.180]  Good, I'm glad.
[48:42.420 --> 48:44.640]  Anything you have to, uh, to, to report to us?
[48:45.400 --> 48:50.020]  Um, strange things are happening, and I really like the way Jim sings out a zip code.
[48:51.360 --> 48:53.740]  Well, it's, it's, it's what he was born to do.
[48:54.000 --> 48:55.720]  Need the Republicans say the numbers.
[48:55.940 --> 48:56.320]  Thank you.
[48:57.660 --> 48:59.320]  Yes, they're good at spouting out numbers.
[48:59.620 --> 49:00.840]  Uh, well, great hearing from you.
[49:01.280 --> 49:01.620]  Likewise.
[49:01.900 --> 49:02.200]  All right.
[49:02.480 --> 49:04.080]  Let's, uh, take another phone call.
[49:04.180 --> 49:06.260]  212-209-2900.
[49:06.500 --> 49:07.180]  And good evening.
[49:07.300 --> 49:07.660]  You're on the air.
[49:08.960 --> 49:09.780]  Go ahead, please.
[49:10.360 --> 49:11.140]  Uh, good evening.
[49:11.360 --> 49:11.580]  How are you doing?
[49:11.620 --> 49:13.080]  This is Bob from Jersey.
[49:13.320 --> 49:13.920]  Bob from Jersey.
[49:14.040 --> 49:14.360]  How are you doing?
[49:14.720 --> 49:15.480]  Not too bad.
[49:15.940 --> 49:20.700]  On that terrorism thing you mentioned about the 90 days incarceration without trial?
[49:21.000 --> 49:21.100]  Mm-hmm.
[49:21.680 --> 49:23.680]  That's something they had in South Africa.
[49:24.200 --> 49:24.940]  I'm not surprised.
[49:25.260 --> 49:28.460]  And when they let you out on the 91st day, they'd re-arrest you.
[49:28.680 --> 49:28.960]  Mm-hmm.
[49:29.100 --> 49:30.680]  But you went for another 90 days.
[49:30.840 --> 49:36.400]  It sounds like one of those things that they do in, you know, military dictatorships, where they really don't want you to be speaking out and things like that.
[49:36.600 --> 49:38.780]  Oh, that wouldn't be our country or Britain.
[49:39.020 --> 49:39.040]  Nah.
[49:39.100 --> 49:41.400]  They want to bring democracy to the world.
[49:41.640 --> 49:46.360]  Now, you see, I think when most people say they're for that kind of thing, they're for it for all the guilty people.
[49:46.360 --> 49:50.500]  They don't think that it could possibly happen to somebody who's not guilty or somebody who looks like them.
[49:51.260 --> 49:57.720]  Well, when the Patriot Act was up, one fellow sat next to me in a general store and said to me, oh, that's not for us.
[49:57.800 --> 49:59.320]  That's just for those Muslims.
[49:59.600 --> 49:59.860]  Mm-hmm.
[50:00.620 --> 50:03.580]  First, they came for the communists, but I wasn't a communist.
[50:04.320 --> 50:06.380]  Then they came for the Jews, and so on.
[50:06.480 --> 50:07.540]  Yep, et cetera.
[50:07.900 --> 50:08.280]  All right.
[50:08.380 --> 50:09.440]  Thanks for your call.
[50:09.960 --> 50:10.380]  You're welcome.
[50:10.860 --> 50:11.680]  Keep up the good work.
[50:11.880 --> 50:12.420]  Thank you very much.
[50:12.420 --> 50:13.960]  Coach, 212-209-2900.
[50:14.340 --> 50:14.920]  Good evening.
[50:15.060 --> 50:15.440]  You're on the air.
[50:16.220 --> 50:16.620]  Hello.
[50:16.880 --> 50:17.260]  How are you doing?
[50:17.860 --> 50:18.200]  Hi.
[50:18.780 --> 50:19.480]  What's on your mind?
[50:20.600 --> 50:21.120]  Go ahead.
[50:21.180 --> 50:21.500]  You're on the air.
[50:21.700 --> 50:21.980]  Am I on the air?
[50:22.120 --> 50:22.440]  Yes, you are.
[50:23.440 --> 50:24.820]  I'm calling from New Jersey.
[50:24.820 --> 50:26.220]  I do not want to...
[50:26.220 --> 50:28.580]  It is about the 90-day versus...
[50:28.580 --> 50:28.800]  Hello?
[50:28.980 --> 50:29.440]  Yes, go ahead.
[50:31.460 --> 50:33.300]  I'm hearing somebody else talking.
[50:33.320 --> 50:34.720]  That's because you have your radio on.
[50:34.800 --> 50:35.320]  Turn your radio down.
[50:35.460 --> 50:36.100]  You're on delay.
[50:36.700 --> 50:36.900]  Okay.
[50:37.820 --> 50:41.940]  About the 90-day versus 28 days in Britain, I think it is...
[50:42.660 --> 50:46.500]  They asked for 90 days knowing that, you know, they're not going to get 90 days.
[50:46.640 --> 50:49.260]  So 28-day is a win.
[50:49.460 --> 50:50.120]  It's not a loss.
[50:50.200 --> 50:51.180]  Well, I agree with you.
[50:51.240 --> 50:52.700]  It's a win for injustice.
[50:52.760 --> 50:54.880]  But they were very close to getting 90 days.
[50:55.000 --> 50:56.800]  There was a lot of speculation that they...
[50:56.800 --> 50:58.400]  The House of Commons would have gone for it.
[50:58.600 --> 51:00.060]  Something like...
[51:00.060 --> 51:00.900]  What is it?
[51:01.420 --> 51:07.740]  50% of the people want 90 days as opposed to, you know, 20% wanting 28 days or something like that.
[51:07.740 --> 51:11.780]  So a majority of the people over there want the longer period of time.
[51:11.780 --> 51:12.680]  And it's really...
[51:12.680 --> 51:15.260]  It's scary to see how easily they're manipulated.
[51:16.340 --> 51:25.660]  It's like in this country, the administration wanted $30 billion cut for Medicaid and they got only $10 billion cut.
[51:25.820 --> 51:27.340]  Well, it's $10 billion cut.
[51:27.420 --> 51:28.860]  You know, that kind of thing.
[51:28.980 --> 51:29.240]  Oh, no.
[51:29.240 --> 51:29.840]  I agree.
[51:29.940 --> 51:32.260]  It's a bad move to increase it to 28 days.
[51:32.300 --> 51:33.380]  It shouldn't be 14 days.
[51:33.580 --> 51:35.920]  I think if the police have a case against you, fine.
[51:35.920 --> 51:36.920]  Let them move with a case.
[51:37.120 --> 51:39.740]  But you don't start gathering a case after you arrest somebody.
[51:39.980 --> 51:41.220]  You have the case first.
[51:42.420 --> 51:43.520]  Thank you for the show.
[51:43.660 --> 51:47.080]  I do not have a cell phone or any of this technology, but I like your show.
[51:47.200 --> 51:48.080]  Well, good for you.
[51:48.380 --> 51:50.760]  And thanks for keeping it real.
[51:51.900 --> 51:52.620]  Wire connections.
[51:52.840 --> 51:53.540]  That's the way it should be.
[51:53.700 --> 51:55.220]  Remember how good phone calls used to sound?
[51:55.900 --> 51:56.480]  Good evening.
[51:56.660 --> 51:57.200]  You're on the air.
[51:57.960 --> 51:58.900]  Hey, how you doing today?
[51:59.060 --> 51:59.220]  Good.
[51:59.240 --> 51:59.520]  What's up?
[51:59.840 --> 52:01.060]  It's Chris Attenstoneybrook.
[52:01.200 --> 52:01.560]  Oh, hey.
[52:01.620 --> 52:01.880]  How you doing?
[52:02.280 --> 52:02.760]  Good, good.
[52:02.780 --> 52:04.500]  I'm on the fringe of the reception for the show.
[52:04.680 --> 52:06.060]  I wanted to just say hi.
[52:06.860 --> 52:11.340]  I had just gotten my laptop and I was on the air when you had just taken off in Amsterdam.
[52:12.600 --> 52:15.900]  And at 2600 slash travel, I was following all the shows.
[52:16.200 --> 52:23.680]  And I just got this brand new laptop and the first hack that comes in on my little McAfee screen, when you trace it back, it was from Amsterdam.
[52:23.680 --> 52:26.040]  I figured maybe it was one of you people at the hack show.
[52:27.960 --> 52:29.680]  That's not the purpose of these conferences.
[52:30.440 --> 52:31.240]  Not really.
[52:31.600 --> 52:32.360]  It was great, though.
[52:32.540 --> 52:37.140]  And I wondered the music maybe if it wasn't from the old news around here, the news from the world show.
[52:37.320 --> 52:38.300]  Oh, you remember that?
[52:38.440 --> 52:38.740]  Wow.
[52:38.940 --> 52:40.580]  The little book of being from Stony Brook, yeah.
[52:40.680 --> 52:43.140]  Yeah, news of the world is a program I used to do way back.
[52:43.340 --> 52:50.780]  And, well, it's funny you should say that because actually it was taken from a cassette tape that used that very piece.
[52:50.900 --> 52:52.120]  So, yeah, you're almost right.
[52:52.280 --> 52:53.240]  You're very close.
[52:53.620 --> 52:54.900]  That's kind of scary, actually.
[52:55.260 --> 52:56.080]  That's why I called it.
[52:56.140 --> 52:57.140]  No, but I do listen to it.
[52:57.220 --> 52:57.940]  I love the travel.
[52:58.060 --> 52:58.920]  I thought that was excellent.
[52:59.380 --> 52:59.660]  Thanks.
[52:59.900 --> 53:03.060]  I podcasted the train ride, listened to it a dozen times.
[53:03.280 --> 53:03.580]  It was great.
[53:04.280 --> 53:05.520]  Okay, well, it's good to know people are out there.
[53:06.080 --> 53:06.760]  Out on the fringe.
[53:06.840 --> 53:06.960]  All right.
[53:07.020 --> 53:07.300]  See you later.
[53:07.440 --> 53:07.660]  All right.
[53:07.680 --> 53:07.980]  Take care.
[53:08.900 --> 53:09.520]  Out on the fringe.
[53:09.540 --> 53:11.660]  That's a good saying for our listeners, I think, right?
[53:12.360 --> 53:12.640]  Okay.
[53:12.900 --> 53:13.980]  Not to mention the staff.
[53:14.300 --> 53:14.840]  Yeah, yeah.
[53:15.700 --> 53:18.720]  We have time for about one more call, so let's take this one.
[53:18.780 --> 53:19.100]  Good evening.
[53:19.280 --> 53:19.800]  You're on the air.
[53:21.060 --> 53:21.540]  Go ahead.
[53:22.700 --> 53:23.340]  Hello, Manuel.
[53:23.600 --> 53:23.940]  How are you doing?
[53:23.940 --> 53:24.880]  What's up?
[53:25.700 --> 53:26.740]  Just a question, please.
[53:27.040 --> 53:28.160]  This is for Bernie S.
[53:28.380 --> 53:38.700]  Bernie S., last year sometime you mentioned sort of like replacement, not replacement, but like an alternative to XM and Sirius Satellite.
[53:39.520 --> 53:40.360]  Do you remember?
[53:40.740 --> 53:42.500]  Because I can't remember what you recommended.
[53:43.020 --> 53:50.360]  Yeah, it's one of these cellular or PCS data services you can get.
[53:50.560 --> 54:17.040]  It's basically it's a PCM-CIA card you can plug into your laptop and you can it's unlimited internet usually Verizon has a deal now at 60 bucks a month and you basically can stream you know any audio from the web to your laptop and then you can just plug something into the headphone jack of your laptop and into a cassette adapter or your car stereo or whatever and anywhere there's cellular
[54:17.040 --> 54:21.960]  coverage with that network you can listen Oh, great.
[54:22.780 --> 54:28.360]  I thought you had like a specific sort of... sort of software or something like that.
[54:29.180 --> 54:31.220]  Well, any audio streaming software.
[54:31.940 --> 54:32.380]  Okay.
[54:32.560 --> 54:33.060]  And Emmanuel.
[54:33.460 --> 54:33.800]  Yes.
[54:34.000 --> 54:39.320]  When you were on the freight, you said you were going to mention what freight take regular passengers.
[54:39.460 --> 54:40.140]  You didn't mention any.
[54:40.540 --> 54:41.060]  Yeah, I did.
[54:41.160 --> 54:41.620]  Travel Tips.
[54:42.500 --> 54:45.420]  T-R-A-V-L Tips, I think, dot com.
[54:45.980 --> 54:46.180]  Oh, yeah.
[54:46.360 --> 54:47.240]  They're located in...
[54:47.240 --> 54:48.380]  Yeah, they're located in Queens.
[54:48.380 --> 54:50.620]  Anyway, listen, we're out of time, but I want to thank everybody for listening.
[54:50.920 --> 54:56.240]  This sound, incidentally, that we're hearing is the sound of Radio Moscow from way back.
[54:56.840 --> 54:58.720]  This is what's known as an interval signal.
[54:58.940 --> 55:04.820]  And the military music that comes afterwards is the sound for the North American service.
[55:05.320 --> 55:06.460]  That's always how it sounded.
[55:06.640 --> 55:08.200]  So, now you know.
[55:08.700 --> 55:09.880]  Brings back some memories.
[55:10.000 --> 55:10.780]  Those were the good old days.
[55:11.680 --> 55:12.180]  All right.
[55:12.220 --> 55:14.660]  We'll be back again next week with another edition of Off the Hook.
[55:14.880 --> 55:16.400]  Stay tuned for The Personal Computer Show.
[55:16.400 --> 55:18.940]  Emmanuel Goldstein, signing out.
[55:19.160 --> 55:20.080]  Have a good night.
[55:21.580 --> 55:45.520]  By the rivers of Babylon By the rivers of Babylon Where he sat down And there he went When he remembers Zion Cause the wicked carried us away captivity.
[55:46.660 --> 55:47.320]  And
[55:52.740 --> 55:59.140]  we're singing all for a song in a strange land.
[56:00.800 --> 56:03.060]  Cause the wicked,
[56:12.410 --> 56:19.550]  how can we sing all for a song in a strange land?
[56:19.550 --> 56:25.830]  Singing down my heart, sing the song forever.
[56:25.830 --> 56:30.170]  I can't wait to see the same thing.
[56:57.870 --> 57:04.690]  So let the words of our mouth and the dead in
[57:09.950 --> 57:14.990]  thy sight, overriding.
[57:15.930 --> 57:21.090]  So let the words of our mouth and
[57:27.880 --> 57:32.060]  the dead in thy sight, overriding.
[57:32.060 --> 57:33.940]  Sing it together, sing it, sing it.
[57:36.120 --> 57:38.260]  We got to sing it together.
[57:40.620 --> 57:42.260]  And we want to sing
[58:06.430 --> 58:11.490]  it together.
[58:12.370 --> 58:15.070]  Hey, hey, hey, that's right.
[58:15.370 --> 58:18.750]  Hey, that was the off-the-hook gang.
[58:19.290 --> 58:20.990]  Those guys are off the meter.
[58:21.350 --> 58:22.510]  No, they were off the hook.