[00:00.000 --> 00:01.180]  Not any of them.
[00:01.440 --> 00:06.360]  The Border Patrol has made it very ugly down here.
[00:06.600 --> 00:08.980]  They have not even improved nothing.
[00:09.260 --> 00:11.120]  They've only made things worse.
[00:11.780 --> 00:20.800]  Angelita Ramon speaking with Wake Up Call's Deepa Fernandez about her son's death at the hands of the Border Patrol near Tucson, Arizona.
[00:21.660 --> 00:29.960]  Gay rights advocates have recently rallied in several Polish cities to protest the banning of a gay rights march a week prior.
[00:30.280 --> 00:33.540]  And we're going to have to stop it right there because Free Speech News is very late again.
[00:33.860 --> 00:35.060]  It's 7.01.
[00:35.380 --> 00:37.640]  Time for another edition of Off the Hook.
[01:42.360 --> 01:47.260]  If you like this, this is the theme for our new TV show, I think, with a 60s motif to it.
[01:55.470 --> 01:57.410]  So basically we have the credits roll in.
[01:57.530 --> 02:00.770]  This is Off the Hook with Emmanuel Goldstein.
[02:03.990 --> 02:04.890]  Featuring Mike.
[02:05.390 --> 02:06.710]  It's a very catchy song.
[02:06.970 --> 02:08.470]  Yeah, it does keep your comments short.
[02:08.770 --> 02:09.410]  And Jim.
[02:09.650 --> 02:09.910]  Hello.
[02:10.430 --> 02:11.350]  And Redbird.
[02:11.690 --> 02:12.210]  Good evening.
[02:12.210 --> 02:14.110]  With Redhacked.
[02:14.370 --> 02:14.850]  Hello.
[02:15.430 --> 02:15.730]  Walter.
[02:16.210 --> 02:16.690]  Hello.
[02:17.330 --> 02:18.290]  And Arseny.
[02:18.650 --> 02:19.070]  Hello.
[02:20.230 --> 02:21.190]  And Bernie S.
[02:21.250 --> 02:22.050]  as Agent Smith.
[02:22.830 --> 02:24.850]  I'm grooving to the music in Philadelphia.
[02:25.130 --> 02:27.850]  I'd be very impressed if anybody out there actually knows the name of this.
[02:28.050 --> 02:35.470]  I don't want to start a whole other, you know, mass mailing thing, but maybe if people can call in and tell us just the title, I'd be impressed.
[02:36.350 --> 02:39.430]  Otherwise, write to us, OTH at 2600.com.
[02:39.610 --> 02:40.930]  Not the kind of thing you'll find anywhere.
[02:42.350 --> 02:44.010]  A tip for our emailers.
[02:44.090 --> 02:47.490]  If we give the answer later in the show, no need to email us it.
[02:47.830 --> 02:48.010]  Yeah.
[02:48.250 --> 02:49.530]  Please listen to the show.
[02:50.050 --> 02:55.170]  And, you know, oftentimes we give out the right answer and then, you know, later on people email us the wrong answer.
[02:56.250 --> 03:02.590]  Obviously, short attention spans being what they are, you listen and you do something else and, you know, maybe the answer is in the show.
[03:02.690 --> 03:04.970]  So look there first before you look anyplace else.
[03:07.470 --> 03:11.050]  Well, it's been another busy and scary week.
[03:11.350 --> 03:13.490]  All kinds of fun stories coming out.
[03:14.390 --> 03:17.630]  One that caught my attention has to do with Miami.
[03:18.030 --> 03:21.150]  I'll just read a couple of lines of this Associated Press story.
[03:21.970 --> 03:34.050]  Police are planning in-your-face shows of force in public places, saying the random high-profile security operations will keep terrorists guessing about where officers might be next.
[03:34.390 --> 03:36.490]  Sort of like using the terrorist tactics, isn't it?
[03:36.550 --> 03:38.610]  Because we're always guessing where the terrorists are going to be next.
[03:38.710 --> 03:40.870]  Now they're going to be guessing where the cops are next.
[03:41.190 --> 03:50.710]  As an example, uniformed and plainclothes officers might surround a bank building unannounced, contact the manager about ways to be vigilant against terrorists, and hand out...
[03:50.710 --> 03:52.510]  I'm sorry, this is just so funny.
[03:52.850 --> 03:56.110]  Hand out leaflets in three languages to customers and people passing by.
[03:57.550 --> 04:05.150]  Yes, you may have the stuffing scared out of you by what we're doing here, but it's to your advantage.
[04:05.590 --> 04:11.670]  They're going to hand out these leaflets, and there would be no random checks of identification, though.
[04:12.310 --> 04:14.750]  They say people are definitely going to notice it.
[04:15.030 --> 04:16.550]  We want... oh, the theme's over.
[04:16.610 --> 04:17.470]  We want that shock.
[04:17.470 --> 04:18.630]  We want that awe.
[04:18.790 --> 04:19.390]  Oh, God.
[04:19.850 --> 04:24.170]  But at the same time, we don't want people to feel their rights of being threatened.
[04:24.170 --> 04:26.430]  We need them to be our eyes and ears.
[04:26.970 --> 04:30.450]  And now, news from the future, January 15th of next year, Miami.
[04:30.850 --> 04:33.850]  Four civilians died of a heart attack in the Miami Central Bank today.
[04:34.070 --> 04:34.910]  Wouldn't that be something?
[04:35.110 --> 04:42.310]  I was actually more thinking along the lines of, you know, the police converge in an area, and then the terrorists build them all up because they're all there.
[04:42.930 --> 04:50.870]  Well, the terrorists could also know they could have SMS or some, you know, terrorist technology that allows them to communicate with each other and tell them, hey, the cops are over here.
[04:50.950 --> 04:51.870]  Let's go over there instead.
[04:52.030 --> 04:53.230]  And maybe even just across the street.
[04:53.610 --> 04:56.670]  Now, what is the name of the chief of the police of Miami?
[04:57.670 --> 04:59.330]  Well, I think, Bernie, you would know that, right?
[05:00.270 --> 05:02.270]  Not off the top of my head, but I'm sure it's easy to find.
[05:02.310 --> 05:03.570]  No, I think you know that.
[05:03.690 --> 05:05.170]  I think you know who the chief of police is.
[05:06.050 --> 05:06.690]  In Miami?
[05:06.850 --> 05:07.350]  In Miami.
[05:07.850 --> 05:08.550]  You should know.
[05:08.690 --> 05:08.910]  I'm sorry, I don't.
[05:09.030 --> 05:09.670]  Oh, well, I...
[05:09.670 --> 05:10.470]  Oh, oh, yeah!
[05:11.270 --> 05:11.830]  You know.
[05:12.010 --> 05:12.530]  How could I forget?
[05:13.190 --> 05:15.130]  It's Mr. Timoney.
[05:15.230 --> 05:15.650]  Of course.
[05:15.790 --> 05:18.950]  Mr. Timoney always finds himself in the center of attention.
[05:18.950 --> 05:21.090]  He was there for the Republican Convention.
[05:21.710 --> 05:23.490]  He was in New York at some point, too, wasn't he?
[05:23.690 --> 05:24.870]  Yeah, he's always everywhere.
[05:25.850 --> 05:28.990]  The Republican National Convention in Philadelphia he was here for.
[05:29.270 --> 05:29.970]  Yeah, is that what I said?
[05:30.410 --> 05:32.430]  Well, you just said he was there for the Republican.
[05:32.470 --> 05:34.150]  You didn't say where the convention was.
[05:34.230 --> 05:35.230]  Oh, yeah, in Philadelphia.
[05:35.230 --> 05:37.930]  Not to be confused with the one in New York that was later.
[05:38.170 --> 05:38.670]  That's true.
[05:38.810 --> 05:50.730]  He was largely responsible for coordinating the political surveillance of activists in Philadelphia, several of whom I know who were arrested without probable cause.
[05:51.010 --> 05:57.610]  And, I mean, they finally won in court, but it was quite an ordeal for a lot of people.
[05:58.330 --> 06:08.590]  On a related note, New York Civil Liberties Union is asking a Manhattan judge to stop the NYPD from continuing its practice of videotaping and photographing political demonstrations.
[06:09.110 --> 06:19.790]  Anyone who is out in the street, whether you're protesting or simply walking by during the RNC last year, would have noticed that there were all these cops with video cameras out there.
[06:20.050 --> 06:20.670]  Have you guys seen that?
[06:20.670 --> 06:22.370]  Are they incriminating themselves with their own videos?
[06:22.910 --> 06:23.970]  No, they don't film each other.
[06:24.850 --> 06:33.550]  It's really kind of scary just to have a cop stand right next to you and just point the camera at your face and then pan it across the crowd of people that you happen to be in.
[06:34.250 --> 06:41.150]  You wonder what they're going to do with that information, if they're just going to target people or put their pictures up in the station house or something like that.
[06:42.510 --> 06:54.370]  Basically, the NYCLU has said or claimed that the police department basically proclaimed that it could photograph and videotape all political activity in the city without restriction.
[06:54.370 --> 06:55.750]  They kind of came up with this on their own.
[06:56.290 --> 07:00.570]  The surveillance was noted by participants in protest during the 2004 Republican Convention.
[07:00.690 --> 07:01.950]  It's not the first time I've seen it either.
[07:02.610 --> 07:16.330]  The NYCLU charges the surveillance policy could keep people from exercising their First Amendment rights anonymously, and the group claims the police justify their actions by saying the pictures are being used as part of the war on terror.
[07:17.550 --> 07:26.230]  And the police want to reassure us by saying, contrary to the NYCLU's claim, the police department does not keep files on lawful protests.
[07:26.610 --> 07:28.370]  Well, I mean, they've settled it, haven't they?
[07:28.530 --> 07:30.030]  They said they don't do it.
[07:30.130 --> 07:31.970]  So, you know, who are we to ask more questions?
[07:32.190 --> 07:33.830]  What's wrong with them videotaping?
[07:33.830 --> 07:40.130]  I mean, because, okay, we were fighting for our right to photograph and video and do whatever we want in the subway system.
[07:40.210 --> 07:41.110]  Why can't they do it?
[07:41.190 --> 07:42.450]  Well, let me counter that with another question.
[07:42.530 --> 07:44.290]  Can we go up to cops and take their pictures?
[07:44.630 --> 07:46.130]  You know, they don't like it when we do that.
[07:46.230 --> 07:46.690]  That's for sure.
[07:46.830 --> 07:47.770]  Actually, they've smiled.
[07:48.010 --> 07:49.790]  I've had cops smile when I take their picture.
[07:49.870 --> 07:50.030]  Really?
[07:50.090 --> 07:50.570]  It's very rare.
[07:50.730 --> 07:51.350]  Undercover cops?
[07:51.750 --> 07:53.530]  Cops have liked to, you know, not...
[07:53.530 --> 07:53.890]  It depends.
[07:54.030 --> 07:55.870]  It really depends on the cop and the department.
[07:55.990 --> 07:57.150]  It depends a lot on the department.
[07:57.410 --> 07:59.530]  Federal people do not like to be photographed.
[07:59.750 --> 08:00.850]  Bernie, I think you learned that, right?
[08:01.710 --> 08:03.870]  Yes, I found that firsthand.
[08:04.110 --> 08:06.330]  Federal, especially Secret Service agents, don't like being photographed.
[08:06.690 --> 08:07.330]  It's one...
[08:07.330 --> 08:13.270]  The undercover Secret Service, whatever, but, like, marshals in silly uniforms, they don't like to be photographed.
[08:13.270 --> 08:13.950]  It's very strange.
[08:13.990 --> 08:15.710]  I mean, if everybody's going to have their picture taken, fine.
[08:15.810 --> 08:17.550]  Let's everybody play by the same rules.
[08:17.670 --> 08:20.830]  Let's take pictures of the cops and have them, you know, post it someplace.
[08:20.970 --> 08:21.670]  But we won't give them out.
[08:21.770 --> 08:25.950]  We'll even say, like they do, we won't, you know, keep them for a long period of time.
[08:26.050 --> 08:27.230]  We'll just keep them as long as we need them.
[08:27.230 --> 08:36.530]  There's clearly a difference between the government taking photographs of people and individuals taking photographs of the government.
[08:37.090 --> 08:40.590]  And the reasons for this difference ought to be obvious.
[08:40.750 --> 08:51.130]  The government has massive capabilities to correlate the data, to correlate the photograph of you here with you there in a way that individuals just can't do.
[08:51.390 --> 08:53.690]  Well, and also the government can do no wrong.
[08:53.690 --> 08:59.210]  I mean, if they're taking the video or the photographs, I mean, it's obviously for some lawful purpose.
[08:59.390 --> 09:01.370]  Whereas you as an individual...
[09:02.030 --> 09:03.790]  I don't know if you're being sarcastic or not.
[09:04.570 --> 09:05.370]  No, no, he's right.
[09:05.450 --> 09:07.430]  That's exactly what their defense is going to be.
[09:07.530 --> 09:08.510]  You could very well be a terrorist.
[09:08.710 --> 09:10.290]  It's not, I mean, no sarcasm.
[09:10.650 --> 09:11.110]  It's true.
[09:11.970 --> 09:15.110]  Well, it's something I think a lot of people aren't...
[09:15.110 --> 09:16.190]  I mean, there's cameras everywhere.
[09:16.370 --> 09:17.810]  There's cameras, you know, in the subway.
[09:18.190 --> 09:20.670]  There are going to be cameras on the buses and the subways everywhere.
[09:21.750 --> 09:22.930]  How is that any different?
[09:23.110 --> 09:26.550]  That's just taking pictures of you in the street, maybe not exercising your First Amendment rights.
[09:26.550 --> 09:28.210]  Is that the difference?
[09:28.470 --> 09:32.610]  The police cameras in question have the specific purpose of intimidating people.
[09:33.350 --> 09:38.070]  And it's, as you said, very intimidating when the police just start filming you.
[09:39.630 --> 09:42.850]  Usually it means they think you're about to break the law, so they claim.
[09:43.950 --> 09:45.490]  And that means they're about to charge.
[09:45.490 --> 09:46.990]  It creates a real tension.
[09:48.030 --> 09:52.710]  Well, I think it may become a problem where the police may see this as a blanket law.
[09:52.910 --> 09:57.130]  Now, protesters cannot film their own protests and things of that nature.
[09:57.350 --> 09:59.370]  It would be nice if we could get access to their video.
[09:59.570 --> 10:09.810]  But, you know, in pressing the cases against the police for the RNC last year, we've met a brick wall trying to get all the footage because obviously they filmed a lot more than the protesters did.
[10:09.950 --> 10:11.430]  And the protesters filmed quite a bit, too.
[10:11.670 --> 10:13.410]  They lie and they say they don't have it.
[10:13.510 --> 10:13.730]  Mm-hmm.
[10:13.730 --> 10:14.730]  Which is...
[10:14.730 --> 10:16.690]  And how do you prove them, you know, wrong?
[10:16.770 --> 10:18.210]  You can't search the police department.
[10:18.410 --> 10:23.550]  Well, I suppose if you filmed them filming and they don't produce that tape, then you know something's missing.
[10:23.630 --> 10:24.530]  But that's awfully complicated.
[10:24.530 --> 10:25.430]  It's very complicated.
[10:25.770 --> 10:26.850]  It's very complicated.
[10:27.170 --> 10:32.550]  Speaking of abuse of authority, this is an interesting story coming out of Northampton County in Pennsylvania.
[10:32.830 --> 10:33.470]  Listen to this.
[10:33.530 --> 10:42.090]  A Northampton County prison guard was arrested Saturday morning after he allegedly sold cocaine to an undercover drug task force officer in the Walmart parking lot.
[10:43.470 --> 10:48.050]  Kevin Murphy has worked for the prison for more than 24 years, was being...
[10:48.050 --> 10:48.670]  This is interesting.
[10:48.750 --> 10:51.570]  ...was being paid $41,617 a year.
[10:51.670 --> 10:53.290]  I don't know why that's in this story.
[10:55.990 --> 11:02.430]  Basically, he was arraigned before a district judge on Saturday and charged with two counts of delivery of a controlled substance.
[11:02.710 --> 11:07.190]  He was committed to Northampton County prison, the very same prison that he worked for.
[11:07.490 --> 11:08.930]  Now, why are we reading this story?
[11:09.030 --> 11:10.870]  Bernie, would you like to tell us why we're reading this story?
[11:10.870 --> 11:20.450]  Yes, I happened to meet Correctional Officer Kevin Murphy while I was a guest of the Northampton County prison about 10 years ago.
[11:20.450 --> 11:25.830]  But I was on the other side of the bars, and he was quite an arrogant fellow.
[11:26.810 --> 11:33.110]  And I found that some of the guards were actually rather pleasant human beings, but this guy definitely was not.
[11:33.110 --> 11:35.510]  And now he's on the other side of the bars.
[11:36.010 --> 11:40.750]  I'd actually like to go up there and meet him on that footing.
[11:40.950 --> 11:45.090]  Yeah, get on his visitor list, maybe bring back some old memories.
[11:45.310 --> 11:49.130]  It would be really funny to have a prisoner visiting him that he used to guard.
[11:49.250 --> 11:50.230]  Oh, wow, that would be something.
[11:51.250 --> 11:54.330]  So he wasn't a particularly nice person while you were there, was he?
[11:54.330 --> 11:55.590]  It couldn't have happened to a nicer guy.
[11:55.710 --> 11:59.570]  And frankly, it doesn't surprise me that he's been engaged in this type of activity.
[11:59.750 --> 12:01.370]  But there you go.
[12:01.490 --> 12:20.750]  And it's ironic because I met other prison guards at that place who, one of them admitted to me that he had purchased an illegally cloned cellular phone and used it to save a lot of money on long-distance phone calls while I was there simply for possessing software that allowed you to do that and had never been alleged to have committed any fraud with it.
[12:20.750 --> 12:32.050]  And I just thought that was a real irony, that the prison guards turned out to be criminals and those locked behind bars aren't necessarily as culpable.
[12:32.270 --> 12:33.490]  But there you go.
[12:33.590 --> 12:35.210]  Well, the irony continues to this day.
[12:35.350 --> 12:37.470]  There's something about this story, though, that I don't understand.
[12:37.650 --> 12:44.110]  They say he arranged to meet the Northampton County Drug Task Force member to sell him one gram of cocaine for $60.
[12:44.490 --> 12:45.190]  Okay, that's pretty clear.
[12:45.250 --> 12:47.130]  The transaction was captured by electronic surveillance.
[12:47.390 --> 12:49.150]  Police arrested Murphy as he was leaving the parking lot.
[12:49.490 --> 12:53.730]  Police said he tore up the three $20 bills that were given to him in exchange for the drugs.
[12:54.210 --> 12:55.670]  Now, is this guy stupid or what?
[12:55.750 --> 12:57.110]  I mean, why did he tear up the money that he got?
[12:57.470 --> 13:02.250]  I guess he figured, like, you know, it's like you just, like, lose the lottery.
[13:02.590 --> 13:03.830]  Like, you know, your ticket is a loser.
[13:03.970 --> 13:04.550]  You just tear it up.
[13:04.630 --> 13:05.810]  He knew he'd been had.
[13:05.810 --> 13:06.550]  And I don't know why.
[13:06.650 --> 13:07.450]  It's just, it's bizarre.
[13:07.470 --> 13:08.310]  I think he just did it.
[13:08.390 --> 13:09.370]  It's symbolically like, ah.
[13:09.810 --> 13:11.770]  And he just tore it up and threw it up in the air or something.
[13:11.810 --> 13:12.270]  Very strange.
[13:12.370 --> 13:13.870]  Isn't that another crime, though, defacing money?
[13:15.050 --> 13:16.510]  Well, I don't think it is, actually.
[13:16.510 --> 13:17.650]  You can destroy currency.
[13:17.650 --> 13:24.270]  In fact, it would be, it would help in the money supply situation, since our government just keeps printing more and more of it.
[13:24.630 --> 13:34.850]  But perhaps the charge that was, let's see, driven in possession of tampering with or fabricating physical evidence, he was charged with that.
[13:35.030 --> 13:38.870]  Perhaps that's the charge related to tearing up the bills.
[13:39.050 --> 13:51.150]  But actually, that's what I was in prison there for, was tampering with or fabricating physical evidence, because I was alleged to have removed batteries from a touch-tone dialer that supposedly was in my possession.
[13:52.310 --> 13:54.570]  So, very strange crime.
[13:54.570 --> 13:57.270]  In this case, he tore up money, and I don't agree with it.
[13:57.530 --> 14:00.870]  But, what, I think you've got bigger problems than worrying about that charge.
[14:01.170 --> 14:01.470]  Definitely.
[14:01.470 --> 14:05.330]  It's possible that he tore it up preparatory to swallowing it.
[14:05.750 --> 14:07.670]  In other words, destroying the evidence.
[14:08.270 --> 14:10.070]  So, they intercepted it in between.
[14:10.210 --> 14:14.230]  Well, I think also the cocaine in the other person's hand would be evidence that it wasn't about to be destroyed.
[14:14.470 --> 14:20.790]  But still, if you don't have the marked money or the money whose serial numbers has been recorded, it makes the case a little more difficult.
[14:20.950 --> 14:21.490]  I suppose.
[14:21.490 --> 14:25.530]  But, it's all water under the bridge now, and another prison guard in prison.
[14:25.650 --> 14:26.990]  Wait, I just have one question.
[14:27.250 --> 14:29.670]  He's in the prison that he used to guard?
[14:29.850 --> 14:29.870]  Yes.
[14:30.170 --> 14:30.850]  Northampton County.
[14:31.410 --> 14:34.950]  Shouldn't they move him to somewhere where he's not going to get, like, special treatment?
[14:34.950 --> 14:37.590]  My understanding is that it was convenient to do that, right?
[14:38.110 --> 14:39.870]  Well, he happened to be right near there.
[14:39.870 --> 14:40.670]  He was right there.
[14:41.810 --> 14:44.010]  Plus, he knew everybody there, so...
[14:44.010 --> 14:45.930]  That's the problem, I think.
[14:46.450 --> 14:52.170]  Yeah, you know, if other guards are involved in this cocaine ring, having him on the inside would be, as I said, convenient.
[14:52.450 --> 14:55.750]  But, also, all the inmates know him, and they may not like him very much.
[14:55.770 --> 14:56.330]  That's true.
[14:56.550 --> 14:56.990]  That's true.
[14:57.350 --> 14:58.610]  Well, maybe that's part of the sentence.
[14:59.050 --> 15:09.390]  There was another article that came out later this week that another officer at the same prison, Brett Matlock, was suspended after he was charged with two counts of retail theft, shoplifting.
[15:09.470 --> 15:21.790]  I don't remember Officer Brett Matlock, but another part of that story, it said that now the acting warden there is a gentleman named Scott Hoke, who happened to be my probation officer at the time of my case 10 years ago.
[15:22.030 --> 15:26.070]  So, maybe I'll have to get permission from him to visit Officer Murphy.
[15:26.530 --> 15:27.030]  Unbelievable.
[15:27.190 --> 15:30.110]  They got the real cream of the crop in the justice system around there.
[15:31.870 --> 15:33.670]  Update on a story from Canada.
[15:33.890 --> 15:41.570]  As oddly as it started, the widespread problem with some garage doors in the Ottawa region had disappeared by, I think, a week ago Friday.
[15:41.570 --> 15:49.810]  The powerful radio signal causing the problem stopped transmitting on Thursday afternoon, right around the time CBC News contacted the U.S.
[15:49.910 --> 15:52.150]  Embassy to ask if it knew anything about it.
[15:52.710 --> 15:53.870]  Well, well, well.
[15:54.850 --> 15:56.910]  Bernie, what do you think was going on there?
[15:57.150 --> 16:06.530]  It sounds like there was several engineers that were flying into the area to take some signal measurements, do some direction-finding techniques to track down the signal.
[16:06.750 --> 16:11.530]  And just about the time they got there, the signal mysteriously stopped.
[16:11.530 --> 16:20.810]  So, it's very likely that whoever was transmitting the signal did not want to be found and decided just to stop just in the nick of time.
[16:20.990 --> 16:23.450]  Well, it was at 390 megahertz.
[16:23.650 --> 16:24.050]  That's a U.S.
[16:24.390 --> 16:28.210]  military frequency used by the Pentagon's new land mobile radio system.
[16:28.770 --> 16:34.330]  The same frequency is used by garage door openers, and they started to malfunction around the city about two weeks ago.
[16:34.730 --> 16:38.610]  A similar problem has popped up around military bases in the states.
[16:38.790 --> 16:40.650]  Gosh, could it be any more black and white here?
[16:40.930 --> 16:47.330]  I think that this particular Canadian case was done by some other government, and they knew when the U.S.
[16:47.450 --> 16:53.710]  government was being called to ask questions about it, and they stopped just then so that the blame would be deflected.
[16:54.330 --> 16:55.230]  Curious or incurious?
[16:55.270 --> 16:57.550]  Well, I mean, just because...
[16:57.550 --> 17:01.350]  Okay, so, say garage stopped working around military bases.
[17:01.350 --> 17:05.710]  That makes sense because we're starting to use this new technology, and so it's causing interference.
[17:06.050 --> 17:11.870]  But I don't think that you can say because, you know, it's happening around military bases, it must be the U.S.
[17:11.970 --> 17:13.590]  military that's causing it to happen in Canada.
[17:13.730 --> 17:14.470]  I don't think they're...
[17:14.470 --> 17:15.450]  They could be exclusive.
[17:15.610 --> 17:16.610]  They could be different events.
[17:17.090 --> 17:24.010]  The fact that it happens around military bases makes sense, but I don't think that necessarily means that, you know, we caused the problem in Canada.
[17:24.310 --> 17:25.630]  Well, they did contact the U.S.
[17:25.650 --> 17:26.310]  embassy about it.
[17:26.470 --> 17:27.770]  As soon as they contacted the U.S.
[17:27.830 --> 17:29.110]  embassy, it stopped?
[17:29.110 --> 17:30.530]  I don't think it's that kind of...
[17:30.530 --> 17:31.170]  Same frequency?
[17:31.470 --> 17:32.590]  Who are the other suspects?
[17:32.770 --> 17:34.210]  There would be other suspects, I would imagine.
[17:34.950 --> 17:37.010]  German government, they've been going through a lot of trouble.
[17:37.170 --> 17:39.170]  Canadian government's been going through all kinds of trouble.
[17:39.510 --> 17:39.730]  Yeah.
[17:40.610 --> 17:41.150]  That's true.
[17:41.290 --> 17:42.690]  The Canadian government fell on Monday.
[17:42.970 --> 17:48.310]  I was talking about this on the other radio show yesterday, but wouldn't it be nice if we could just make our...
[17:48.310 --> 17:54.670]  I don't mean to overthrow the... advocate of the overthrow of the government, but I'm just saying to make the government fall like they do over there is kind of cool.
[17:54.670 --> 17:59.250]  And they do it in very many countries with the parliamentary system, where basically there's a vote of no confidence.
[17:59.470 --> 18:01.210]  Imagine a vote of no confidence in this country.
[18:01.310 --> 18:03.010]  That would be the neatest thing.
[18:03.070 --> 18:09.010]  I think if we took a vote of no confidence against our government now, I think I know what the answer would be.
[18:09.130 --> 18:10.130]  Yeah, it'd probably pass.
[18:10.230 --> 18:11.470]  A lot of people don't like Bush anymore.
[18:11.770 --> 18:16.510]  Yeah, I mean, just Bush and Lieberman would be the only people standing, I think, standing up for Bush.
[18:17.910 --> 18:19.350]  Or singing about Bush.
[18:20.050 --> 18:20.290]  Yeah.
[18:21.410 --> 18:23.670]  Okay, continuing with disturbing news stories.
[18:23.670 --> 18:37.070]  The Defense Department has expanded its programs aimed at gathering and analyzing intelligence within the United States, creating new agencies, adding personnel, and seeking additional legal authority for domestic security activities in the post-9-11 world.
[18:37.750 --> 18:42.690]  The White House is considering expanding the power of a little-known Pentagon agency.
[18:42.690 --> 18:44.130]  See how many people know about this one?
[18:44.230 --> 18:48.590]  The Counterintelligence Field Activity, or CIFA, C-I-F-A.
[18:48.750 --> 18:50.230]  It was created three years ago.
[18:50.230 --> 19:04.270]  The proposal, which was made by a presidential commission, would transform CIFA from an office that coordinates Pentagon security efforts, including protecting military facilities from attack, to one that also has authority to investigate crimes within the United States,
[19:04.490 --> 19:10.370]  such as treason, foreign or terrorist sabotage, or even economic espionage.
[19:10.370 --> 19:19.230]  The Pentagon has pushed legislation on Capitol Hill that would create an intelligence exception to the Privacy Act, allowing the FBI and others to share information gathered about U.S.
[19:19.570 --> 19:26.210]  citizens with the Pentagon, CIA, and other intelligence agencies, as long as the data is deemed to be related to foreign intelligence.
[19:26.690 --> 19:33.550]  Backers say the measure is needed to strengthen the investigations into terrorism or weapons of mass destruction.
[19:34.610 --> 19:40.010]  We are deputizing the military to spy on law-abiding Americans in America, said Senator Ron Wyden.
[19:40.210 --> 19:43.150]  This is a huge leap without even a congressional hearing.
[19:43.850 --> 19:44.690]  Amazing, isn't it?
[19:44.930 --> 19:45.810]  The things that are going on.
[19:45.810 --> 19:46.370]  This is buried.
[19:46.450 --> 19:48.970]  This story is pretty much, you know, buried in the Washington Post.
[19:49.970 --> 20:01.190]  I'm wondering if the Posse Comitatus Act comes into play, which basically makes it criminal or unconstitutional for the U.S.
[20:01.290 --> 20:03.090]  military to engage in law enforcement.
[20:03.230 --> 20:08.450]  So I'm not sure if this is considered law enforcement or military spying against U.S.
[20:08.490 --> 20:11.310]  citizens, but it seems like a very gray line there.
[20:11.310 --> 20:12.010]  I know one thing.
[20:12.010 --> 20:21.010]  When they say it can be related to, you know, foreign intelligence or espionage or things like that, they're going to say, well, we can't tell you why we know it's related to that because that would compromise national security.
[20:21.190 --> 20:22.110]  But just trust us.
[20:22.490 --> 20:27.290]  And then, you know, they'll just continue doing their dirty work and sending people to Guantanamo Bay or whatever else they do.
[20:27.690 --> 20:34.950]  I mean, if they lose, if this particular act is deemed to be illegal, they'll find some other way to do it possibly without telling us.
[20:35.150 --> 20:36.250]  So, you know.
[20:36.630 --> 20:38.870]  Well, is it better that they tell us?
[20:38.870 --> 20:39.530]  I don't know.
[20:39.650 --> 20:40.150]  I'm not sure.
[20:41.510 --> 20:53.250]  Interesting case coming out of Denver involving somebody who was basically asked to show identification on a bus.
[20:53.450 --> 20:55.850]  Her name is Deborah Davis, 50 years old.
[20:56.050 --> 21:01.570]  She was reading a book while riding to work on RTD's Route 100.
[21:01.850 --> 21:03.330]  Do I know what RTD is?
[21:03.650 --> 21:04.350]  I don't.
[21:04.490 --> 21:05.450]  Regional Transit?
[21:05.690 --> 21:06.170]  Denver.
[21:06.470 --> 21:06.790]  Okay, maybe.
[21:07.050 --> 21:07.390]  That could be.
[21:07.550 --> 21:08.250]  Something like that.
[21:08.250 --> 21:17.290]  When the bus rolled up to the gates of the Denver Federal Center in Lakewood, a guard climbed on and demanded that Davis, as well as everyone else on board, produce identification.
[21:19.970 --> 21:23.370]  She says, I told him I had identification, but I wasn't going to show it to him.
[21:23.410 --> 21:27.690]  I knew that I wasn't required by law to show ID, and that's why I decided I wasn't going to.
[21:27.770 --> 21:30.450]  The whole thing seemed to be more about compliance than security.
[21:31.310 --> 21:42.970]  According to Davis, the guard proceeded to call federal cops, who then dragged Davis off a public bus, handcuffed her, shoved her into the backseat of a police car, and drove off to a police station within the federal center.
[21:43.810 --> 21:45.590]  What is federal center, exactly?
[21:45.590 --> 21:52.190]  I guess it's, you know, the building that people like Timothy McVeigh are drawn to to blow up, you know, all the federal offices are.
[21:52.330 --> 21:53.810]  And there's a bus that goes through it?
[21:53.830 --> 21:57.130]  Apparently there's a bus stop on its grounds or something.
[21:57.130 --> 21:59.370]  I'm not exactly sure how they have things worked out here.
[21:59.410 --> 22:02.630]  But the bus apparently passes through federal property at some point.
[22:02.850 --> 22:03.150]  Uh-huh.
[22:03.150 --> 22:08.490]  And, you know, like they say in the article, is there, you know, a no bus riding list of some sort?
[22:08.610 --> 22:09.550]  You know, like a no fly list?
[22:09.730 --> 22:11.370]  What exactly do they do with these names?
[22:11.930 --> 22:12.830]  It's pretty insane.
[22:13.050 --> 22:14.750]  So this whole thing is going into court.
[22:15.350 --> 22:20.190]  There's a really good website called papersplease.org.
[22:21.190 --> 22:26.030]  And if you go to slash Davis, you'll see all the facts about this case.
[22:26.130 --> 22:27.730]  But it's really, it's pretty interesting.
[22:27.830 --> 22:28.890]  What's she being charged with?
[22:29.930 --> 22:30.730]  Good question.
[22:30.990 --> 22:31.810]  You know anything about this, Bernie?
[22:33.270 --> 22:35.410]  Apparently this is the Federal Protective Service.
[22:35.570 --> 22:38.170]  These are federal police officers that guard federal buildings.
[22:38.330 --> 22:44.590]  And apparently they charge her with failing to follow their instructions to show the ID.
[22:44.890 --> 22:48.930]  So it's not, there's not a requirement, there's not a legal requirement she has to show ID, apparently.
[22:49.610 --> 22:54.130]  Just that they're supposed to do, people are supposed to do what they say when they're on federal property.
[22:54.310 --> 22:56.870]  And she refused to do that, and she got charged with it.
[22:57.010 --> 22:59.410]  So they'll probably get thrown out, but they're going to keep doing it.
[22:59.570 --> 23:00.290]  Yeah, absolutely.
[23:00.870 --> 23:02.990]  It doesn't say here what she actually was charged with.
[23:03.030 --> 23:08.710]  I know her arraignment is scheduled for December 9th, and she could face up to 60 days in jail.
[23:10.850 --> 23:12.010]  It's really unbelievable.
[23:12.130 --> 23:18.030]  Her son, by the way, is in Iraq, so that certainly adds to making the government look bad in this particular case.
[23:18.530 --> 23:23.410]  It would be interesting to know if they were recording the identities or if they were just looking at it, which means absolutely nothing.
[23:23.590 --> 23:23.830]  Well, okay.
[23:23.870 --> 23:28.030]  Now, how is this different than having to show ID when you board an airplane?
[23:28.930 --> 23:30.270]  Because someone's going to ask that question.
[23:30.430 --> 23:30.910]  Go ahead, Jim.
[23:31.050 --> 23:36.670]  There are a lot of areas owned by the federal government where you're required to show that you are a U.S.
[23:36.770 --> 23:37.090]  citizen.
[23:37.830 --> 23:42.450]  And I've been through a number of them, usually NASA or Defense Department related.
[23:43.710 --> 23:49.730]  So I'd really like to hear if somebody, if there's a listener from Denver who knows the geography of this area.
[23:49.870 --> 23:52.070]  Is it just that she was outside a building?
[23:52.070 --> 23:57.810]  Was she going down a restricted street like we have Wall Street and near the federal building here in New York?
[23:57.950 --> 24:02.470]  Or was it just outside a building that happens to have federal offices and courthouses?
[24:02.910 --> 24:06.350]  Because, you know, it makes a difference to some extent between those three.
[24:06.630 --> 24:12.030]  Well, let's say the bus was actually going, you know, through a tunnel or something that was part of federal property.
[24:12.430 --> 24:12.810]  Okay.
[24:12.910 --> 24:15.710]  Now, does that give them the right to get ID for it?
[24:15.710 --> 24:20.630]  If she gets off the bus, they clearly have the right on federal land.
[24:20.630 --> 24:25.770]  If she gets off the bus on federal land, they clearly have the right to then ask for her ID.
[24:26.010 --> 24:30.410]  They were probably just trying to save time and effort by getting everybody on the bus.
[24:30.630 --> 24:35.770]  This is weird because it's another of the guise of protecting the federal building from somebody blowing themselves up.
[24:36.030 --> 24:36.250]  What?
[24:36.370 --> 24:38.270]  It doesn't matter outside that particular area?
[24:38.350 --> 24:39.130]  They don't care about that?
[24:39.150 --> 24:41.250]  They only care about their saving their own asses?
[24:41.430 --> 24:44.350]  This has nothing to do with protecting the building from being blown up.
[24:44.410 --> 24:44.730]  Then what is it?
[24:44.730 --> 24:49.790]  I was asked for ID because certain things they don't want non-citizens seeing.
[24:49.790 --> 24:52.950]  It's their effort to guard against espionage.
[24:53.150 --> 24:53.730]  But citizens...
[24:53.730 --> 24:55.170]  Wait, it's a public bus?
[24:55.350 --> 24:55.990]  Yeah, it's just a public...
[24:55.990 --> 24:56.270]  I mean...
[24:56.270 --> 24:57.150]  I agree with that.
[24:57.250 --> 25:03.650]  But the point is, it's a silly thing to differentiate between citizens and non-citizens and espionage.
[25:03.770 --> 25:05.690]  It probably helps a little, okay?
[25:05.890 --> 25:07.390]  But yes, I do agree with you.
[25:07.450 --> 25:08.250]  It's a public bus.
[25:08.370 --> 25:09.350]  They shouldn't have done it.
[25:09.930 --> 25:11.310]  Non-citizens have ID.
[25:11.770 --> 25:14.870]  You can get a driver's license if you have a green card or something.
[25:14.870 --> 25:18.690]  Yes, but we don't know what would have happened if she had shown Canadian citizenship site.
[25:18.990 --> 25:24.030]  I think nothing at all would have happened because she was on a public bus where she could have been going from one place to another.
[25:24.330 --> 25:30.090]  Well, maybe they would have said, sorry, you can't go through on this bus because it goes through this territory and we have the stealth bomber parked over there.
[25:30.090 --> 25:30.770]  What would they have done?
[25:30.830 --> 25:34.130]  Make her get off the bus and spend all the more time in the area?
[25:34.230 --> 25:34.490]  I don't know because that didn't happen.
[25:34.670 --> 25:39.210]  The thing everybody seems to be overlooking is that we are not required by law to carry identification.
[25:39.610 --> 25:41.450]  What happens if you don't have identification?
[25:41.610 --> 25:42.290]  Wait a minute, wait a minute.
[25:44.870 --> 25:48.250]  Nevada, who fought it all the way up to the Supreme Court.
[25:48.430 --> 25:51.630]  In certain states, you are required to carry and show identification.
[25:52.190 --> 25:56.650]  I don't know what the case is in the state of Colorado, but in Nevada, you are.
[25:56.810 --> 25:58.870]  He lost in the Supreme Court for that reason.
[25:59.090 --> 26:01.850]  In New York, thankfully, we're not required to carry it.
[26:02.750 --> 26:19.750]  To answer your original question about the difference between this and the airlines, the difference is that the airlines have a commercial interest in making sure that the name on the ticket and the name of the passenger match, there's little to no security purpose in making sure you have an ID.
[26:21.350 --> 26:30.050]  And in the case of the federal building, there's no commercial interest and thus no reason at all, good or bad, to check the ID.
[26:30.270 --> 26:30.750]  I mean, yeah.
[26:30.810 --> 26:35.550]  I could see a Greyhound bus, too, also requiring people to show ID when they get on the Greyhound bus.
[26:36.150 --> 26:36.730]  Some do.
[26:36.730 --> 26:41.890]  A city transport system, that's very different because that's, you know, that's more...
[26:41.890 --> 26:42.690]  You pay your fare right there.
[26:42.810 --> 26:43.550]  You get on...
[26:43.550 --> 26:43.750]  Yeah.
[26:43.750 --> 26:44.670]  You don't have prepaid tickets.
[26:44.950 --> 26:45.310]  But...
[26:45.310 --> 26:57.990]  And that's also one of the reasons why we objected so strenuously when Citigroup started to do this, when they were requiring people to show ID to get into the place where we have our meetings because somebody had pictures of the building from several years ago and those found in Iraq.
[26:58.990 --> 27:01.030]  And still today, we have to go through an x-ray machine.
[27:01.250 --> 27:02.530]  Yeah, but you don't have to show ID.
[27:02.690 --> 27:03.450]  That's the important thing.
[27:03.450 --> 27:09.350]  And to have to show ID in public places, that's where things really start to fall apart.
[27:09.550 --> 27:13.050]  I mean, we say it so much on the show that, like, terrorists have ID.
[27:13.590 --> 27:15.590]  It doesn't prove anything.
[27:15.590 --> 27:18.050]  If all you do is look at the ID, you haven't proved a thing.
[27:18.190 --> 27:22.470]  And, you know, there's been a lot of talk in the last week about border security, as if that's the issue.
[27:22.670 --> 27:24.190]  You know, closing up the border with Mexico.
[27:24.370 --> 27:26.850]  How many terrorists have made it into the United States from Mexico?
[27:27.350 --> 27:32.730]  But, you know, the way that these people talk, it's as if 9-11 was because of that.
[27:32.730 --> 27:40.310]  Everybody who was responsible for 9-11, and in fact, every terrorist act, I think, that's ever taken place on this soil, was in this country legally.
[27:41.290 --> 27:44.490]  So, what does that prove, you know?
[27:45.870 --> 27:48.590]  Okay, let's move on, because we have a lot of ground to cover here.
[27:50.270 --> 27:54.810]  Google is in the news, as they always are, but doing more things.
[27:54.810 --> 27:59.490]  First of all, a listener writes in, asking, how can Google offer more than two gigabytes of storage?
[28:00.450 --> 28:01.690]  Signed, Jerry from Queens.
[28:01.810 --> 28:03.230]  How can they possibly do this?
[28:03.770 --> 28:06.470]  Does anybody want to venture how they can give so much disk space away?
[28:06.670 --> 28:07.010]  Arsenic?
[28:07.350 --> 28:09.110]  Well, it's not expensive.
[28:09.450 --> 28:15.350]  I mean, you can buy, like, a lot of property, and, I mean, disk space, and just put it on.
[28:15.430 --> 28:17.630]  Yeah, but how many people use Gmail?
[28:18.010 --> 28:18.670]  Well, exactly.
[28:18.790 --> 28:21.970]  And the other thing is, not everyone's going to be using that two gigabytes all the time.
[28:21.970 --> 28:28.190]  Right, you keep track of what's being used, and as you, you know, get close to how much you have, you add more.
[28:28.390 --> 28:36.870]  You don't have to, you can tell everyone you have two and a half gigabytes, but most, I mean, I have a Gmail account, and I use 25 megabytes, and that's probably where it'll stay, so...
[28:36.870 --> 28:45.250]  Well, you know, I gotta say, you brought up some interesting points a couple days ago about Google and privacy and things like that.
[28:45.470 --> 28:49.750]  You use your Gmail account, and whenever you search for something, what do you see?
[28:49.750 --> 29:01.590]  Well, they have this option now that, with, I mean, you know, obviously Google originally was a search engine, you just searched with it, that's what you did, and they've been expanding services, and, you know, they added email, and they've added things like this.
[29:01.690 --> 29:08.870]  So now they have a new option that you can, a lot of people use Google as their homepage because they want to start searching right away.
[29:09.010 --> 29:09.170]  Right.
[29:09.290 --> 29:10.830]  So you can personalize this homepage.
[29:11.210 --> 29:19.370]  You can have it show local weather, you can have it show, excuse me, news feeds, RSS feeds, actually, it's really neat.
[29:19.490 --> 29:23.250]  You can just search for something, and if the site has an RSS feed, usually it'll come up.
[29:23.410 --> 29:26.650]  Okay, we can promote that later, but let's talk about the hazards first.
[29:26.890 --> 29:33.250]  Well, anyway, so, but in order to have this, and to be able to use it from place to place, you have to have an identification that can move around with you.
[29:33.330 --> 29:38.010]  And so what they've used, they use the Gmail accounts to identify you from place to place.
[29:38.310 --> 29:47.270]  What's kind of disconcerting about it is, when I'm just making a web search, I still see at the top, no matter what I'm searching, my Gmail address.
[29:47.430 --> 29:49.990]  So essentially, that's also following me along with my web searches.
[29:50.630 --> 29:58.950]  And so the question is, could they be taking this data of what I'm looking for, aggregating it, using it for their ads, or for what?
[29:59.010 --> 30:00.350]  I think they are.
[30:00.510 --> 30:01.610]  I think they've even said they are.
[30:01.790 --> 30:05.250]  Well, I mean, they use your search that you do at the time for your ads.
[30:05.270 --> 30:06.490]  They even do that with your email, too.
[30:06.590 --> 30:08.070]  I don't know if you've ever used the Gmail account.
[30:08.130 --> 30:08.930]  Yeah, yeah, I have.
[30:09.030 --> 30:09.370]  I have.
[30:09.490 --> 30:10.750]  Well, that's something I want to bring up.
[30:10.790 --> 30:17.170]  Let me just refer to a New York Times story that came out this week that sort of mentions what you're discussing here.
[30:17.270 --> 30:26.590]  At a North Carolina strangulation murder trial this month, prosecutors announced an unusual piece of evidence, Google searches allegedly done by the defendant that included the words neck and snap.
[30:26.970 --> 30:28.470]  I guess he had to look up how to do it.
[30:29.230 --> 30:42.970]  The data was taken from the defendant's computer, prosecutors say, but it might have come directly from Google, which unbeknownst to many users keeps records of every search on the site, on its site, in ways that can be traced back to individuals.
[30:43.930 --> 30:47.130]  Google is rolling out revolutionary new features at a blistering rate.
[30:47.270 --> 30:54.150]  Most recently, Google Base, which could evolve into a classified ad service, and the Google Book Search Library project is a new one every single week, it seems.
[30:54.270 --> 30:56.890]  But there are privacy issues that seem to go along with this.
[30:57.070 --> 31:02.530]  Honestly, in this case, it seems like it would be far easier to check the browser history of the user.
[31:02.610 --> 31:03.810]  Oh, if you have access to that.
[31:03.930 --> 31:10.790]  But let's say, you know, Emmanuel at Gmail, whatever my username is, search for something incriminating.
[31:11.350 --> 31:13.430]  Is there any way that can be pulled out of Google?
[31:13.610 --> 31:14.030]  Absolutely.
[31:14.330 --> 31:15.950]  They do keep records of it, I'm sure.
[31:16.150 --> 31:19.970]  They have, obviously, tons of storage space because of the nature of Google.
[31:20.050 --> 31:22.850]  And it's very easy for them to keep track of this sort of stuff.
[31:23.790 --> 31:26.130]  And they're probably really good at searching the records.
[31:26.250 --> 31:29.070]  Yeah, I imagine they've gotten that skill down.
[31:30.910 --> 31:34.170]  So, one thing is, I mean, we don't know the specifics of this case.
[31:34.310 --> 31:37.270]  So, it could be that he had a Gmail account, and it could be that they kept track of that.
[31:37.350 --> 31:39.610]  But it also could be, you know, maybe they have a cookie.
[31:39.870 --> 31:43.850]  I mean, they set a cookie in your browser that kind of follows you around as you search for things.
[31:44.010 --> 31:46.590]  So, maybe he'd cleared his history, but hadn't cleared his cookies.
[31:46.750 --> 31:47.510]  So, they took that cookie.
[31:47.690 --> 31:54.550]  Yeah, I mean, I want to be clear that there's no indication that Google in any way was cooperating and helping to provide evidence here.
[31:54.670 --> 31:56.390]  But the fact is, they could.
[31:56.870 --> 31:59.230]  And that information is out there, and it's possible.
[31:59.450 --> 32:02.690]  But there are a couple other things that kind of bug me about this.
[32:02.950 --> 32:05.330]  Everybody, everybody is using Gmail.
[32:05.630 --> 32:08.250]  Now, first of all, that bugs me right there, when everybody seems to be using the same thing.
[32:08.830 --> 32:13.690]  And people seem to not worry so much that Gmail scans their mail.
[32:14.170 --> 32:15.370]  They've openly admitted this.
[32:15.450 --> 32:18.710]  They scan the mail so that they can provide marketing, research, or whatever.
[32:18.850 --> 32:21.410]  But they are scanning your private mail.
[32:21.550 --> 32:27.090]  And everything, people use this as their main mail address now.
[32:27.250 --> 32:30.030]  That means everything coming in and going out is being monitored.
[32:30.170 --> 32:35.430]  Now, okay, they might be monitoring, you know, what kind of car you like to drive or something like that.
[32:35.510 --> 32:42.070]  But they could also, just as easily be monitoring, you know, the kinds of people that you talk about, your political persuasion, anything like that.
[32:42.170 --> 32:44.690]  Or whoever buys Google 10 years from now will have that capability.
[32:44.890 --> 32:47.150]  Well, one of their mottos is, don't be evil.
[32:47.410 --> 32:54.990]  And I think that even though it does scan your mail, you could do it in a non-invasive way, in that the software at the time reads for keywords.
[32:55.290 --> 32:58.450]  For example, the other day, someone sent me an email about an ice skating rink in the city.
[32:58.650 --> 33:03.670]  And I got four ads on the side of the email about where I could buy ice skating rinks.
[33:03.730 --> 33:04.150]  Oh, man.
[33:04.150 --> 33:05.950]  Like backyard ice skating rinks.
[33:06.030 --> 33:06.810]  Based on your email.
[33:06.990 --> 33:11.270]  Based on the... But I'm saying that that could be done in a non-invasive way, in that they don't keep a record of that.
[33:11.370 --> 33:13.790]  They just do it, okay, well, here's the word ice skate.
[33:13.950 --> 33:16.090]  So let's find ads that match that.
[33:16.270 --> 33:19.690]  But the computer does that, not, you know, it doesn't necessarily record it.
[33:20.030 --> 33:23.470]  Now, keep in mind, though, that Google is offering a completely free service.
[33:24.450 --> 33:25.810]  It's totally free for the user.
[33:25.930 --> 33:28.170]  They can sign up for a free email account, et cetera, et cetera.
[33:28.290 --> 33:32.350]  So why shouldn't they be able to try to make some profit off of it by directing ads correctly?
[33:32.450 --> 33:34.110]  I'm not saying they're doing anything wrong.
[33:34.170 --> 33:35.590]  I'm saying people need to be aware of this.
[33:35.610 --> 33:35.850]  Oh, sure.
[33:36.030 --> 33:42.190]  When all of your mail suddenly is going through these people who are scanning your mail for keywords, that worries me.
[33:42.290 --> 33:42.510]  Sure.
[33:42.630 --> 33:44.770]  But Google is fairly open that they're doing this.
[33:44.890 --> 33:50.830]  And the user always has the option to anonymize their searches and even possibly their email by using...
[33:50.830 --> 33:51.610]  If they know how to do this.
[33:51.630 --> 33:55.890]  But I think a lot of people don't know how to do this and may not be as aware as we are as to what's going on.
[33:55.890 --> 33:56.050]  Sure.
[33:56.110 --> 34:01.290]  I mean, it has to be, you know, it's an issue that has to be conveyed to the user, but also there are other options.
[34:01.470 --> 34:07.370]  But, you know, there's a couple other issues with Google Gmail particularly, and that's spam.
[34:07.730 --> 34:08.170]  All right.
[34:08.250 --> 34:12.570]  Now, Gmail has an interesting little feature where you can mark something as spam.
[34:13.130 --> 34:16.930]  Now, that's great, but it has its risks as well.
[34:17.250 --> 34:21.430]  When, as happens to us quite a lot, fake email is sent out in our name.
[34:21.610 --> 34:23.450]  It happens to Amazon.
[34:23.630 --> 34:25.550]  It happens to PayPal all the time.
[34:25.550 --> 34:27.390]  How many of us have gotten fake PayPal messages?
[34:27.790 --> 34:28.090]  Okay.
[34:28.150 --> 34:37.250]  When somebody gets a fake message from PayPal or 2600.com or WBAI.org, they're going to mark it as spam if they don't know who we are.
[34:37.250 --> 34:39.010]  It's fake mail, but they don't know that.
[34:39.310 --> 34:44.170]  Google then takes that information and says, okay, mail coming from this particular place is spam.
[34:44.310 --> 34:45.430]  It's already happened to us.
[34:45.570 --> 34:53.710]  We've already not been able to communicate with a lot of our writers, the vast majority of which I think, unfortunately, are using Gmail as their only way of getting mail.
[34:53.930 --> 34:57.850]  And you can't tell people, by the way, mail from us is being saved as spam.
[34:57.970 --> 34:58.910]  It's really inconvenient.
[34:59.410 --> 35:00.170]  We've talked to them.
[35:00.270 --> 35:02.950]  We've gotten it fixed for the moment, but there's no indication it can't happen again.
[35:02.950 --> 35:09.190]  And conversely, on the other side, mail coming from Gmail has been blacklisted by sorbs.
[35:09.450 --> 35:10.050]  All right.
[35:10.150 --> 35:17.830]  Those are the guys that look for particular patterns in spam and IPs that are the sources of spam.
[35:17.910 --> 35:21.830]  Now, the reason why this is remaining like this, Google doesn't give out the originating IP.
[35:22.210 --> 35:32.630]  The originating internet address of the person sending the email is given out in almost every other web-based email system like Hotmail or Yahoo, but Gmail does not do this.
[35:32.630 --> 35:35.450]  So, Gmail can't identify the spammers.
[35:35.890 --> 35:41.450]  So, basically, Gmail gets blacklisted, which means we can't get mail from people who run Gmail sometimes.
[35:41.630 --> 35:42.670]  You don't know when, though.
[35:43.290 --> 35:53.570]  What's interesting about it, I mean, I don't know how many spammers are actually using Gmail now, but I thought it was an interesting technique for a while, and I think it still does it, is in order to get a Gmail account, you have to be invited.
[35:53.970 --> 35:54.690]  You can't just...
[35:54.690 --> 35:55.710]  Oh, that's nonsense.
[35:55.850 --> 35:56.970]  Now, everybody's got Gmail accounts.
[35:57.010 --> 35:57.730]  It's so easy to get.
[36:03.270 --> 36:10.410]  But you get more invitations over time, so it's mushroomed, and now anybody, if there's anybody out there who can't get a Gmail account, I'd like to meet you.
[36:10.570 --> 36:13.130]  A spammer could just as easily invite his spam bots to Gmail.
[36:13.130 --> 36:13.290]  Exactly.
[36:13.510 --> 36:14.290]  That's what's happening.
[36:14.490 --> 36:16.550]  And, you know, I think it's a good service.
[36:16.610 --> 36:18.010]  Everybody I've asked, why do you use this?
[36:18.070 --> 36:18.950]  They say it's a great interface.
[36:19.230 --> 36:24.030]  I just find it hard to believe you can't have the same great interface without the privacy issues.
[36:24.510 --> 36:25.430]  It's a free service.
[36:25.430 --> 36:33.030]  Yeah, but can't somebody take that idea and, you know, develop something else with it that is less intrusive and maybe cost something, you know?
[36:33.650 --> 36:38.110]  The problems, as that Times article points out, are not directly Google's.
[36:38.550 --> 36:44.030]  The problems are either inherent but correctable or are due to the government.
[36:44.030 --> 36:50.930]  And the two problems I'm referring to are the fact that the cookies don't expire for some 40 years, which is absurd.
[36:50.930 --> 36:52.270]  A 40-year-old cookie?
[36:52.330 --> 36:55.270]  You are a different person 40 years in the future.
[36:55.430 --> 36:57.090]  And you're also not using the same computer.
[36:57.350 --> 36:59.110]  Well, you never know.
[36:59.230 --> 36:59.710]  Speak for yourself.
[37:00.330 --> 37:02.270]  Yeah, I mean, I'm still on my abacus.
[37:02.350 --> 37:14.670]  But anyway, but the more serious thing is that Google, like any other internet service, is subject, like any other organization, company, or person in the United States, is subject to subpoenas from a court.
[37:14.850 --> 37:25.610]  So if they get subpoenaed by the federal government to get your Gmail account or your searches or whatever, under the Patriot Act, they don't have to tell you.
[37:26.790 --> 37:32.990]  So if it's linked to you through your Gmail account or through some other way, well, there you are.
[37:33.190 --> 37:35.550]  They're searching for you and you don't even know.
[37:36.830 --> 37:41.250]  I think what you meant to say is that they're forbidden to tell you, not that they don't have to tell you.
[37:41.330 --> 37:41.590]  Correct.
[37:41.730 --> 37:41.890]  Correct.
[37:41.950 --> 37:42.290]  I'm sorry.
[37:42.290 --> 37:51.890]  But I just wanted to return to an earlier point where I think Red Hacked said that in Google's charter or whatever is that they claim not to be evil.
[37:53.270 --> 38:01.470]  And a lot of people, for whatever reason, take this claim as a priori evidence that they are, in fact, not evil, which is rather silly.
[38:02.550 --> 38:05.490]  I'm sure you can get all kinds of evil people to say they're not evil.
[38:06.230 --> 38:07.650]  Yeah, but then they'd be lying.
[38:08.750 --> 38:09.990]  Which is something that...
[38:09.990 --> 38:11.130]  That an evil person would do.
[38:11.130 --> 38:11.990]  That entities do.
[38:12.550 --> 38:12.910]  Oh, yeah, right.
[38:12.990 --> 38:20.950]  And I've met and talked to some folks who work for Google and they're all very nice people, at least the ones I've met.
[38:21.430 --> 38:23.070]  And I don't think any of them are evil.
[38:23.250 --> 38:41.230]  But what a lot of them don't understand is that an organization of that size that that many people are using for so many different things and that is collecting all this data is sort of an inherent incipient evil.
[38:42.310 --> 38:46.430]  It is not through the ill will of the people necessarily.
[38:46.730 --> 38:55.070]  But this much data with this much kind of lack of regard for the privacy of the users is just something bad waiting to happen.
[38:55.230 --> 38:59.070]  And I think that the true evil is the users giving up that privacy.
[38:59.350 --> 39:03.690]  I've had a lot of conversations with people where I've mentioned this sort of thing and they say, I don't care.
[39:03.830 --> 39:04.550]  I have nothing to hide.
[39:04.810 --> 39:05.130]  This is it.
[39:05.130 --> 39:11.670]  Yeah, that to me is just... I mean, I don't blame Google so much as people just not thinking, you know, and giving up something in the process.
[39:11.970 --> 39:13.710]  Okay, well, we've spent enough time on this.
[39:13.790 --> 39:19.230]  We'd like to hear what you have to say, what you think about this, both in the way of phone calls and email.
[39:19.570 --> 39:22.150]  We'll be taking phone calls, 212-209-2900.
[39:22.450 --> 39:26.550]  You can write to us at OTH at 2600.com.
[39:27.350 --> 39:30.230]  And if you insist on sending snail mail...
[39:30.230 --> 39:30.830]  What do you mean insist?
[39:30.910 --> 39:31.670]  We like snail mail.
[39:31.890 --> 39:32.490]  Okay, okay.
[39:32.590 --> 39:34.830]  But, you know, it just ties up the postal service.
[39:35.130 --> 39:37.570]  They don't like having to carry all the mail.
[39:37.650 --> 39:38.630]  It's a very busy time of year.
[39:38.630 --> 39:41.610]  All they want to do is get through the mail so they can go and start living their lives.
[39:41.650 --> 39:45.230]  And whenever you send a letter, you're adding to what they have to do.
[39:45.290 --> 39:47.970]  So please be considerate to the postal workers and send email.
[39:48.170 --> 39:52.270]  They can hire more workers and more people will be employed and be able to spend for Christmas.
[39:52.270 --> 39:54.030]  Trying to get out of doing what they're doing.
[39:54.070 --> 39:54.190]  Take care of their families.
[39:54.430 --> 39:55.810]  No, it's hell.
[39:56.090 --> 39:57.310]  Have you ever worked in a mail room?
[39:57.510 --> 39:57.810]  Yes.
[39:58.170 --> 39:58.710]  Oh, okay.
[39:59.210 --> 40:00.530]  Well, then I rest my case.
[40:01.250 --> 40:01.450]  Okay.
[40:01.670 --> 40:02.230]  Send mail.
[40:03.390 --> 40:03.830]  Okay.
[40:04.170 --> 40:12.350]  Our snail mail address is off the hook, care of WBAI, 120 Wall Street.
[40:12.990 --> 40:13.610]  10th floor.
[40:13.950 --> 40:14.450]  Thank you, Walter.
[40:14.750 --> 40:16.290]  New York, New York.
[40:16.530 --> 40:18.670]  1-0-0-0-5.
[40:19.330 --> 40:19.670]  All right.
[40:19.770 --> 40:22.070]  Now, don't actually write, thank you, Walter.
[40:22.070 --> 40:23.190]  Walter, that's not part of the address.
[40:23.210 --> 40:23.510]  Oh, no, no.
[40:23.510 --> 40:23.770]  I'm sorry.
[40:23.830 --> 40:25.450]  I didn't mean for that to be inserted into the address.
[40:25.590 --> 40:25.830]  Do right.
[40:25.970 --> 40:26.470]  Thank you, Walter.
[40:26.590 --> 40:27.250]  See if it gets here.
[40:27.450 --> 40:27.790]  All right.
[40:28.530 --> 40:29.590]  Let me start off.
[40:29.710 --> 40:31.750]  I'm just reading a couple pieces of email here before we take some phone calls.
[40:32.170 --> 40:34.270]  Let me start off telling you guys I love your show.
[40:34.270 --> 40:38.730]  Since I'm a Dutch listener, I think the show gives a lot of insight into American society.
[40:39.190 --> 40:41.250]  I listen to the show as a podcast.
[40:41.410 --> 40:41.950]  Sorry, Mike.
[40:42.390 --> 40:46.110]  And the only thing that bothers me a little bit is the sound quality.
[40:46.770 --> 40:50.030]  Is it perhaps possible to also provide the episodes in a better quality?
[40:50.190 --> 40:52.890]  Signed, Walter, or Wouter, or something.
[40:52.910 --> 40:53.450]  Do I know you?
[40:53.510 --> 40:54.310]  I know someone with that name.
[40:54.890 --> 40:56.890]  Great to hear the Boards of Canada in the background last week.
[40:56.970 --> 40:57.510]  Thank you very much.
[40:58.130 --> 41:08.730]  It's interesting you should mention this because just a couple of days ago, we made available for the first time ever off the hook the first three years in broadcast quality.
[41:09.210 --> 41:15.470]  Now, it's available on DVD at a price so low I'm forbidden by law from saying it.
[41:15.690 --> 41:16.210]  All right.
[41:16.210 --> 41:24.510]  But if you go to our website, www.2600.com, and look for the story about high quality off the hook, high quality relating to sound, not content.
[41:24.710 --> 41:24.850]  All right.
[41:26.050 --> 41:26.570]  Content too.
[41:26.730 --> 41:28.190]  I don't want to be held accountable for that.
[41:28.590 --> 41:35.650]  But you can actually listen because, you know, we could play it for you over the air, but it wouldn't make any difference to you guys listening on the internet because it would still sound the same to you.
[41:35.930 --> 41:51.330]  But if you actually connect to our website and you'll see some different examples that have been put up there of how it sounded in the past, how it sounded when it was available through previous DVDs or online, and how it sounds now through the new high quality DVDs,
[41:51.410 --> 41:52.410]  you'll be shocked.
[41:52.590 --> 41:58.190]  You'll be sitting down when you listen to this because it's as good as when it aired over the radio that many years ago.
[41:58.350 --> 42:02.630]  And what we're going to be doing is releasing a different year every month because we have so many shows.
[42:03.930 --> 42:07.410]  And if you really are an off the hook fan, this is a way to catch up.
[42:07.650 --> 42:09.050]  That's 12 times real time.
[42:09.710 --> 42:10.090]  Yeah.
[42:10.570 --> 42:11.230]  Yeah, it is.
[42:12.590 --> 42:12.970]  Emmanuel?
[42:13.210 --> 42:15.070]  That's www.2600.com.
[42:15.190 --> 42:16.790]  Look for the high quality off the hook.
[42:16.870 --> 42:17.190]  Yes, Bernie?
[42:17.470 --> 42:19.610]  I do have a question about the audio of off the hook.
[42:19.610 --> 42:23.770]  It is WBAI-FM is broadcast in stereo.
[42:25.490 --> 42:28.250]  Is off the hook in two separate audio channels?
[42:28.910 --> 42:29.970]  We are in stereo.
[42:30.570 --> 42:30.910]  Uh-huh.
[42:32.290 --> 42:38.330]  What's been available before now has been something at 16 kbps and 16 kilohertz.
[42:39.030 --> 42:41.430]  But I mean broadcasting over the air in New York.
[42:41.570 --> 42:42.250]  Broadcasting over the air.
[42:42.410 --> 42:43.850]  We're in full stereo, yes.
[42:44.190 --> 42:46.410]  Does that mean like you're on the left channel?
[42:46.570 --> 42:47.110]  Oh, no, no, no.
[42:47.250 --> 42:48.310]  And Jim is on the right channel?
[42:48.390 --> 42:48.910]  How does that work?
[42:48.910 --> 42:49.990]  That would be nice if we could do that.
[42:50.110 --> 42:53.390]  The old studio, we did have little pan things that we were able to do that.
[42:53.590 --> 42:54.370]  Are we able to do that, Mike?
[42:54.870 --> 42:56.430]  Mike seems to think that we can still do that.
[42:56.530 --> 42:57.070]  So maybe...
[42:57.070 --> 42:57.510]  I think we can.
[42:57.530 --> 42:59.370]  I'm going to go look and we'll report back.
[42:59.510 --> 42:59.750]  All right.
[42:59.950 --> 43:01.410]  I think we should do the spin the room effect.
[43:01.610 --> 43:03.050]  Mike is going to try and make this work.
[43:03.050 --> 43:04.890]  So we're probably not going to hear from him again for the rest of the night.
[43:05.670 --> 43:06.290]  Is it over there?
[43:06.430 --> 43:06.710]  Okay.
[43:06.810 --> 43:07.650]  Well, we can try that.
[43:08.770 --> 43:12.090]  But the point is that you can't hear this if you listen on the internet.
[43:13.070 --> 43:20.910]  Because the internet is still kind of slow and not very advanced in that regard.
[43:21.110 --> 43:23.950]  But if you listen to these DVDs, you'll hear it in full stereo.
[43:24.150 --> 43:27.070]  It's at 128 kbps and 44 kilohertz.
[43:27.170 --> 43:28.230]  That's quite a step up.
[43:28.310 --> 43:30.190]  So again, not to promote this too much.
[43:30.430 --> 43:31.530]  They're just available.
[43:31.670 --> 43:33.050]  We spent a lot of time getting these together.
[43:33.530 --> 43:35.610]  And it's just kind of cool that it's finally done.
[43:36.110 --> 43:37.570]  Allegedly, I'm only on the left now.
[43:37.770 --> 43:38.550]  I hear you on both.
[43:38.710 --> 43:39.950]  Well, then it might be broken.
[43:40.170 --> 43:41.330]  Yeah, I think it might be broken.
[43:41.470 --> 43:42.530]  Or just not ever working.
[43:43.330 --> 43:43.730]  Waterphonic.
[43:44.030 --> 43:44.250]  Yeah.
[43:44.870 --> 43:46.230]  Here's a note from Canada.
[43:46.390 --> 43:50.950]  The Canadian federal election campaign started on Tuesday for an election date now set for January 23rd.
[43:51.010 --> 43:52.050]  You see, that's the way it should be.
[43:52.290 --> 43:53.850]  You know, government falls on Monday.
[43:54.050 --> 43:55.670]  Election campaigns start on Tuesday.
[43:56.130 --> 43:57.710]  Elections in a month or so.
[43:58.190 --> 43:58.550]  Two months.
[43:59.150 --> 44:07.450]  Anyway, please let your Canadian listeners know that if they want to get involved in technology-related issues during the election, they should come to digital-copyright.ca.
[44:07.750 --> 44:12.710]  We started the forum in 2001 with a forum to oppose DMCA-like legislation in Canada.
[44:13.010 --> 44:14.710]  And we grew from there.
[44:15.730 --> 44:19.130]  That's from Russell, webmaster for digital-copyright.ca.
[44:19.410 --> 44:24.850]  Go there and find out all about what copyright law, where it stands in Canada right now.
[44:24.970 --> 44:31.490]  And also to the listener who complained about there being too much politics, as far as I know, technology is the application of a natural science.
[44:31.490 --> 44:38.110]  How we choose to apply a natural science is entirely a political issue, so it is impossible to separate politics and technology.
[44:38.470 --> 44:39.130]  Well said.
[44:40.910 --> 44:41.590]  Let's see.
[44:41.730 --> 44:43.230]  Anything else that...
[44:43.990 --> 44:45.450]  No, I think that's pretty much it for now.
[44:45.590 --> 44:46.210]  We can take some phone calls.
[44:46.290 --> 44:48.130]  212-209-2900.
[44:48.330 --> 44:49.650]  Let's see who's out there.
[44:50.590 --> 44:51.290]  And good evening.
[44:51.290 --> 44:51.790]  You're on the air.
[44:53.010 --> 44:53.610]  Go ahead.
[44:54.390 --> 44:54.790]  Hello?
[44:54.990 --> 44:55.490]  Yes, go ahead.
[44:56.150 --> 44:56.670]  Turn down your radio.
[44:57.630 --> 45:00.270]  Yeah, I founded Egypt 26th.
[45:01.630 --> 45:07.410]  Oh, and also I have a side comment about Gmail, but is it one or two issues about Egypt 2600?
[45:07.570 --> 45:09.050]  Are you calling us from Egypt?
[45:09.730 --> 45:10.910]  No, actually, I'm not.
[45:11.090 --> 45:11.250]  Oh.
[45:12.190 --> 45:12.630]  Okay.
[45:12.910 --> 45:14.630]  But you founded Egypt 2600.
[45:14.730 --> 45:15.510]  Where exactly are you?
[45:15.570 --> 45:16.310]  Not exactly, but where?
[45:16.610 --> 45:17.690]  Right now I'm in Canada.
[45:17.970 --> 45:25.430]  I actually move around a lot, and I'm originally Egyptian, though I have lots of people over there that I know, and I go there a lot and stuff.
[45:25.610 --> 45:25.870]  Okay.
[45:26.130 --> 45:28.770]  So what's on your mind about Egypt 2600?
[45:28.770 --> 45:30.590]  Well, okay.
[45:31.110 --> 45:45.830]  The main thing really is that we were wondering if you could bend the official rules of 2600 about having them on the first Friday of the month, because the reason you have them on a Friday here, I'm assuming, is because it's the weekend afterwards.
[45:46.290 --> 45:51.750]  However, in Egypt, in the Middle East, that's like having it on a Sunday.
[45:51.990 --> 45:54.870]  Not just do they have work the next day, but it's also the Holy Day.
[45:55.830 --> 46:01.190]  So we were wondering if we could have a rule for the Middle East for having it on the first Thursday.
[46:01.370 --> 46:03.050]  Well, that's an interesting point.
[46:03.230 --> 46:18.230]  What we would need to do in such a case is figure out something uniform, because the thing with 2600 meetings, they've been going on since 1987, I believe, and I think one of the tremendous advantages we have is that they're always taking place on the same day everywhere.
[46:18.430 --> 46:20.330]  So everybody knows it's the first Friday of the month.
[46:20.470 --> 46:21.510]  It's 2600 a day.
[46:22.170 --> 46:23.870]  It's, you know, it's very easy to remember.
[46:24.150 --> 46:26.590]  Now, obviously, there are some people who can't make it on Friday.
[46:26.730 --> 46:28.810]  They say, well, you know, we'd like to have it on Saturday instead.
[46:28.830 --> 46:30.110]  Some people want to have it on Sunday.
[46:30.210 --> 46:31.330]  Other people want to have it on Tuesday.
[46:31.850 --> 46:41.830]  So the problem that we face with people that can't make it is right away, okay, how would we ever know which day is 2600 a day if everybody just has meetings whenever they want to have meetings?
[46:42.070 --> 46:44.590]  And what about the people who can only make it on Friday?
[46:44.690 --> 46:46.370]  Isn't it unfair to them if you move it to Tuesday?
[46:46.570 --> 46:50.970]  Now, your case is different because it's based on a cultural thing.
[46:51.170 --> 46:55.530]  You're saying in the entire country, having a meeting on a Friday would be problematic.
[46:55.850 --> 47:00.690]  And I've heard similar issues voiced from Israel as well.
[47:01.390 --> 47:06.490]  So I think what we would need to do is just come up with a secondary date for cases like that.
[47:06.570 --> 47:13.130]  Not so much people who can't make it because they happen to be working on Friday or something like that because, you know, people are going to be working any day of the week.
[47:13.310 --> 47:22.510]  But for something so all-encompassing as, you know, a national, cultural, religious type of excuse like that, that definitely is a good reason.
[47:23.010 --> 47:24.410]  Because today is their Monday.
[47:26.270 --> 47:29.990]  So, and Friday is also the Holy Day, so it's both at the same time.
[47:30.350 --> 47:31.850]  So which day would work?
[47:32.170 --> 47:32.610]  Thursday.
[47:32.750 --> 47:33.550]  Thursday is perfect.
[47:33.750 --> 47:36.670]  It's like having it on a Friday because they start their weekend.
[47:36.670 --> 47:41.010]  So Thursday is pretty much like Egypt's Friday or Saturday.
[47:41.530 --> 47:41.910]  Yeah.
[47:42.230 --> 47:42.570]  All right.
[47:42.850 --> 47:48.710]  Now, if that worked for Israel as well, then, you know, I think that could work.
[47:49.890 --> 47:56.870]  But then, you know, if people in Israel say, well, Thursday is a day we can't do it, we want to do it on Sunday, then, you know, just listing it becomes so hard and complicated.
[47:57.350 --> 48:03.250]  So if you guys can agree, if Egypt and Israel can agree on this, I think we might make some progress.
[48:03.250 --> 48:11.130]  We should remind our listeners that this Friday for countries that have the weekend on Saturday and Sunday, at least, is the meeting.
[48:11.390 --> 48:11.590]  Uh-huh.
[48:11.850 --> 48:12.050]  Yeah.
[48:12.550 --> 48:12.790]  Mm-hmm.
[48:12.910 --> 48:14.890]  Yeah, but not in Egypt.
[48:15.010 --> 48:15.350]  But, yeah.
[48:15.810 --> 48:21.570]  I'm not sure Israel is even still going, and they don't really like to communicate much with us either.
[48:21.870 --> 48:24.450]  Well, you know, somebody has to break the ice.
[48:24.650 --> 48:28.850]  Somebody has to, you know, be the first one to, you know, to take that first step.
[48:29.110 --> 48:48.490]  But, again, another important point on this subject, you're always free to have, quote-unquote, hacker meetings that aren't official 2600 meetings and have something that's, you know, a sparsely attended 2600 meeting on the Friday to tell people to come on this other day at least as kind of like a...
[48:49.210 --> 48:49.890]  Symbolic link.
[48:50.070 --> 48:51.450]  Yeah, symbolic link of sorts.
[48:51.630 --> 48:54.830]  That way, at least, you know, you have the Friday.
[48:54.950 --> 49:00.250]  This is more for people that just can't make it on Friday and want to do it on a different day as well, but there are still people that make it on Friday.
[49:00.970 --> 49:02.230]  It gets so complicated.
[49:02.890 --> 49:03.270]  I'm sorry?
[49:03.570 --> 49:04.950]  So I can go ahead and try this?
[49:05.150 --> 49:06.050]  Give it a shot.
[49:07.250 --> 49:09.370]  I'd like to hear more feedback on this.
[49:09.690 --> 49:12.830]  I've been trying to contact you, but, like, I don't know, it's really hard.
[49:13.210 --> 49:14.170]  It can be, yeah.
[49:14.270 --> 49:16.430]  Well, you know, one place is IRC channel.
[49:16.570 --> 49:21.210]  We have an IRC network, irc.2600.net, and we have...
[49:21.210 --> 49:24.890]  You can message me on there if I'm around, which I haven't been lately, admittedly.
[49:25.430 --> 49:26.610]  I might respond.
[49:27.650 --> 49:32.710]  But I think what you did now is a best way of getting attention and getting people to think about it.
[49:32.810 --> 49:38.770]  So if people can write to us, OTH, at 2600.com, with their opinions and thoughts about this, I'd sure like to hear them.
[49:39.270 --> 49:39.710]  That's cool.
[49:39.890 --> 49:49.550]  Also, two very other really quick things about Egypt 2600 is the payphones on your site for Egypt are a completely different set to the ones we have.
[49:49.710 --> 49:51.490]  The ones we have are scanned from the magazine.
[49:51.750 --> 49:52.230]  Okay.
[49:52.330 --> 49:55.530]  Some sort of fairly recent issues, so I guess it's just a matter of updating.
[49:55.950 --> 49:56.670]  Yeah, probably.
[49:56.870 --> 49:57.950]  I know we have to update those.
[49:58.890 --> 50:01.130]  But they are Egyptian payphones though, right?
[50:01.510 --> 50:01.810]  Yeah.
[50:02.010 --> 50:02.190]  Okay.
[50:02.670 --> 50:06.910]  And the voice listing of meetings on the phone line doesn't include Egypt.
[50:07.150 --> 50:09.130]  I don't think that's been updated in several years.
[50:09.130 --> 50:10.450]  I'm surprised it even still exists.
[50:10.630 --> 50:11.390]  I can imagine so.
[50:12.450 --> 50:12.810]  Okay.
[50:12.890 --> 50:15.010]  Well, we'll take care of that but it's probably going to mean eliminating it.
[50:15.930 --> 50:17.210]  Thanks a lot for your call.
[50:17.310 --> 50:19.770]  It's good to know there's 2600 activity out there in Egypt.
[50:20.950 --> 50:22.230]  But yes, meetings are this Friday.
[50:22.890 --> 50:23.430]  It's true.
[50:23.670 --> 50:24.610]  It's very true.
[50:24.950 --> 50:29.630]  And at Citigroup, of course, we're going to have to deal with that stupid train that they set up every December.
[50:30.470 --> 50:32.150]  So we'll be meeting on the side probably.
[50:32.930 --> 50:36.170]  Here's another letter with all the other challenges out there to the internet.
[50:36.190 --> 50:39.270]  Why are you guys wasting oxygen on these domains being U.S.
[50:39.410 --> 50:39.810]  centric?
[50:40.130 --> 50:45.590]  Why don't you stick to issues that are actual problems instead of soaking yourself in the reflexive anti-Americanism of Europeans?
[50:45.850 --> 50:46.410]  Signed, Dan.
[50:47.030 --> 50:49.110]  Who wants to guess where Dan lives?
[50:49.470 --> 50:51.030]  I bet it's the United States.
[50:51.270 --> 50:52.370]  I was going to say Texas.
[50:52.630 --> 50:53.910]  I figured the United States was a given.
[50:54.090 --> 50:54.570]  Yeah, okay.
[50:54.890 --> 50:55.610]  I agree with him.
[50:55.750 --> 50:57.770]  Dan, if you can find 10 people...
[50:57.770 --> 51:05.790]  No, 10 people can write to us and say we're from Europe, we're from Asia, we're from Africa, we're from someplace else and we think it's just great, just fine and Danny if the U.S.
[51:05.850 --> 51:08.910]  retains control of the internet, then I'll shut up about it myself.
[51:09.230 --> 51:12.950]  Also, I don't think reflexive was used in quite the right sense there.
[51:13.110 --> 51:14.130]  All right, you take that up with him.
[51:14.290 --> 51:16.330]  You're on a grammar mood tonight, aren't you?
[51:16.410 --> 51:16.890]  It's grammar cop.
[51:17.090 --> 51:18.310]  You know, show me your badge.
[51:18.410 --> 51:19.350]  I've got to be good at something.
[51:20.290 --> 51:21.870]  InfraGard, 212-209-2900.
[51:21.870 --> 51:27.170]  We have time for a couple more calls but we only have a few on the line so come on in and join the party.
[51:27.910 --> 51:31.350]  InfraGard, which we talked about last week, is an FBI organization.
[51:31.670 --> 51:32.810]  Was it last week or two weeks ago?
[51:33.010 --> 51:34.630]  Well, regardless, we talked about it in the past.
[51:35.070 --> 51:38.130]  They use university resources to study computing security.
[51:38.130 --> 51:40.970]  You can become a member if you're willing to submit to a background check.
[51:41.430 --> 51:44.230]  They will send you warnings and updates related to security news.
[51:44.330 --> 51:47.290]  Their website is www.InfraGard.net.
[51:47.350 --> 51:48.770]  Now, it's not spelled properly.
[51:48.910 --> 51:51.350]  It's spelled I-N-F-R-A-G-A-R-D.
[51:52.930 --> 51:55.210]  So, that's the latest as far as that goes.
[51:55.390 --> 51:56.130]  Oh, here's something.
[51:56.290 --> 51:58.910]  Rip-off of the week, which probably should be a new feature here.
[51:59.910 --> 52:08.850]  Technology provider Unified Root, based in Amsterdam, has begun leasing internet addresses that can end in any word rather than in com, org, net, or other top-level domains.
[52:09.230 --> 52:22.850]  The entrepreneurs at Unified Root and other companies now tinkering with the internet's addressing system in Amsterdam and elsewhere represent just one of several major factors working against ICANN, the California-based entity responsible for distributing the more familiar web addresses.
[52:23.470 --> 52:32.150]  They say their company will operate in parallel with the internet corporation for assigned names and numbers and will only register web addresses that ICANN does not.
[52:32.150 --> 52:47.130]  the price for this for something that is not guaranteed to work $1,000 per application and a little note here underneath where you pay, if your application does not comply with our terms, we are not obliged to return your application fee.
[52:47.250 --> 52:55.190]  So if you do something they don't like, you won't even get the domain, they'll keep your $1,000 and this is for something that is just being developed right now.
[52:55.370 --> 52:56.130]  This is...
[52:56.130 --> 53:00.410]  I remember hearing something like this a few years ago, maybe two years ago.
[53:00.590 --> 53:14.390]  Somebody in China, I believe, had a company that was going to have whatever domain extensions you wanted and I think the way that they were implementing it was some plugin for Internet Explorer that would then resolve using their servers.
[53:14.550 --> 53:15.710]  But it failed.
[53:15.990 --> 53:16.970]  They don't catch on.
[53:17.130 --> 53:26.190]  And if you spend $1,000 per domain thinking that you're going to get something cool, well, I hope you do but it's going to have to catch on first and I think that's when you start charging for it.
[53:26.270 --> 53:29.650]  You don't charge when it's still being...
[53:29.650 --> 53:30.250]  No, no.
[53:30.350 --> 53:33.330]  You start charging now because you don't have to actually do any work.
[53:33.510 --> 53:33.910]  Okay, fine.
[53:33.990 --> 53:36.070]  No, from their point of view, yeah, they're doing exactly the right thing.
[53:36.130 --> 53:42.450]  I'm saying from the consumer's point of view, it's not a very good deal and that's why they get rip-off of the week for me.
[53:42.470 --> 53:53.350]  It sounds like a great scam for getting money from those people who try to grab important domains up early and a lot of those people that are rich now that have done that.
[53:53.590 --> 53:54.990]  I read an article in a magazine.
[53:54.990 --> 53:56.610]  Yeah, but you remember back then it was free.
[53:56.710 --> 53:57.970]  It didn't cost anything to register domains.
[53:58.070 --> 53:58.870]  Well, it cost money.
[53:59.010 --> 53:59.950]  It cost $30.
[54:00.290 --> 54:01.770]  It was originally free.
[54:01.930 --> 54:02.970]  Yeah, it originally cost nothing.
[54:03.150 --> 54:04.730]  Well, but there are a lot of people.
[54:04.850 --> 54:12.310]  I read an article in a magazine about a week ago about these people get together and they've all made millions buying up domains and then reselling them for a lot more.
[54:13.670 --> 54:16.430]  Paul Guerin used to have something called Namespace.
[54:16.610 --> 54:17.470]  What happened to Namespace?
[54:17.750 --> 54:19.790]  I haven't heard from it in years.
[54:19.970 --> 54:20.790]  You know, I haven't heard from it in a while too.
[54:20.870 --> 54:21.770]  We should find out what happened to that.
[54:21.950 --> 54:23.190]  I think it cost less than $1,000.
[54:23.550 --> 54:24.630]  It definitely cost less than $1,000.
[54:24.910 --> 54:26.470]  It's like $20, 30, 40, somewhere in there.
[54:26.730 --> 54:28.630]  But you got about as much for it.
[54:28.670 --> 54:31.330]  But I wouldn't consider that to be a rip-off.
[54:31.490 --> 54:32.590]  You're investing a little bit.
[54:32.730 --> 54:33.230]  Maybe it'll work.
[54:33.270 --> 54:33.650]  Maybe it won't.
[54:33.690 --> 54:35.130]  But $1,000, that's a lot of money.
[54:35.190 --> 54:35.930]  So give me $20.
[54:35.930 --> 54:36.790]  I'll give you nothing.
[54:37.030 --> 54:43.950]  You have to change your domain name server to not look at the accepted ones to look at the proprietary one for Namespace or for this...
[54:43.950 --> 54:44.810]  And everybody else has to.
[54:44.910 --> 54:47.170]  Let's see if we can squeeze in one more phone call because we're running out of time.
[54:47.250 --> 54:47.470]  Good evening.
[54:47.570 --> 54:47.890]  You're on the air.
[54:48.410 --> 54:48.910]  Yeah, hi.
[54:49.190 --> 54:49.590]  How you doing?
[54:49.990 --> 54:50.390]  Okay.
[54:50.790 --> 54:51.530]  What's on your mind?
[54:51.910 --> 55:00.310]  I'm calling with regard to information on information technology jobs and where they can be located in New York.
[55:00.470 --> 55:01.150]  Oh, gosh.
[55:01.430 --> 55:01.690]  Yeah.
[55:02.390 --> 55:04.210]  Does anybody have any idea on this?
[55:04.410 --> 55:09.310]  I hate to leave on a sad note but it looks like we're going to have to.
[55:10.450 --> 55:14.290]  I mean, you know, Redhack, I think you might know more about this than anybody else.
[55:14.450 --> 55:14.630]  Nope.
[55:14.910 --> 55:16.050]  Being a college student and all.
[55:16.210 --> 55:16.430]  Nope.
[55:17.430 --> 55:18.550]  I wish I had a job.
[55:18.790 --> 55:19.010]  Yeah.
[55:19.170 --> 55:20.550]  New York Times classifieds.
[55:20.590 --> 55:21.130]  What can I say?
[55:21.190 --> 55:21.810]  There aren't any.
[55:22.110 --> 55:23.590]  I mean, there might be some.
[55:23.750 --> 55:28.190]  You just got to look around and maybe the people at the personal computer show might know more about this.
[55:28.270 --> 55:36.290]  I mean, there's a lot of websites you can go to if you have internet access, monster.com and all of those where you can start looking for jobs in the area and in your field.
[55:36.490 --> 55:38.010]  I mean, they're definitely out there.
[55:38.210 --> 55:38.350]  Yeah.
[55:38.950 --> 55:39.670]  Be imaginative.
[55:39.670 --> 55:40.930]  You don't have to move to California.
[55:41.150 --> 55:41.950]  You don't have to do that.
[55:42.370 --> 55:43.090]  They're all on our board.
[55:43.090 --> 55:45.950]  I mean, and especially on Wall Street, information technology is a big thing.
[55:46.170 --> 55:46.890]  Let's take one more.
[55:47.110 --> 55:47.450]  Good evening.
[55:47.530 --> 55:47.870]  You're on the air.
[55:48.410 --> 55:48.710]  Hi.
[55:49.010 --> 55:50.410]  My name is Nathan El Hirsch.
[55:50.590 --> 55:51.490]  I'm from Israel.
[55:51.490 --> 55:52.850]  I'm living in Jersey now.
[55:53.030 --> 55:53.270]  Wow.
[55:53.730 --> 55:54.110]  Yeah.
[55:54.230 --> 55:55.650]  I just heard the call before.
[55:55.770 --> 55:56.390]  That was fast.
[55:57.830 --> 56:01.050]  I want you to know that Friday and Saturday is our holy day, too.
[56:01.170 --> 56:02.170]  So Thursday is good for us.
[56:02.370 --> 56:03.210]  You agree to Thursday.
[56:03.370 --> 56:05.830]  You see, Egypt 2600 guy, you see how easy that was?
[56:06.250 --> 56:06.610]  Okay.
[56:06.610 --> 56:13.250]  Let's make it official and we'll exchange some emails or whatever and we'll get this thing off the road or on the road.
[56:13.790 --> 56:14.350]  That works.
[56:14.550 --> 56:14.790]  All right.
[56:14.790 --> 56:15.010]  Cool.
[56:15.010 --> 56:16.390]  Also, one other quick thing.
[56:16.570 --> 56:23.350]  A couple weeks ago, you asked about where the nearest train station is that you need to buy a ticket then validate it in another machine.
[56:23.490 --> 56:23.650]  Mm-hmm.
[56:24.130 --> 56:24.870]  Newark, New Jersey.
[56:25.150 --> 56:25.650]  The path...
[56:25.650 --> 56:26.510]  or not the path, excuse me.
[56:26.630 --> 56:28.810]  The Newark subway, you have to do that in also.
[56:29.450 --> 56:30.010]  As a fact.
[56:30.290 --> 56:30.450]  Okay.
[56:31.490 --> 56:32.270]  Did you know that, Bernie?
[56:32.990 --> 56:33.310]  No.
[56:33.470 --> 56:38.790]  It seems like most of the people we've heard from that say they have one near them are in New Jersey.
[56:38.930 --> 56:41.770]  So this seems to be more a New Jersey thing than any other state in the country.
[56:41.970 --> 56:44.590]  It sure seems that way, but we're going to have to leave it there as we are out of time.
[56:44.590 --> 56:46.110]  Remember, 2600 meetings this Friday.
[56:46.330 --> 56:47.510]  We'll be back again next week.
[56:47.590 --> 56:48.790]  Stay tuned for The Personal Computer Show.
[56:49.430 --> 56:51.130]  I'm Andrew Goldstein for Off the Hook.
[56:51.270 --> 56:51.950]  Have a good night.
[57:38.540 --> 57:50.800]  All American Rejects All American Rejects All American Rejects All American Rejects
[58:38.060 --> 58:50.860]  All American Motherly All Rejects All American Rejects All American Rejects All-American rejects.
[58:51.200 --> 58:53.760]  All-American rejects.
[59:03.250 --> 59:03.590]  Woo!
[59:04.170 --> 59:06.690]  That was something, wasn't it there?
[59:07.090 --> 59:09.810]  Hey, you're listening to WBAI.