[00:00.000 --> 00:07.720]  That's the 10th Annual Dinner Tribute to the Families of Political Prisoners and Prisoners of War, January 15th from 3 to 7 p.m.
[00:07.720 --> 00:11.940]  at the Bed-Stuy Restoration Plaza, 1368 Fulton Street in Brooklyn.
[00:12.220 --> 00:16.400]  For more information, call 718-949-5153.
[00:16.680 --> 00:20.440]  That's 718-949-5153.
[00:32.840 --> 00:34.040]  7 o'clock straight up.
[00:34.160 --> 00:36.800]  You're listening to radio station WBAI New York.
[00:40.310 --> 00:41.470]  It's time for Off the Hook.
[01:24.130 --> 01:25.250]  And a very good evening to everybody.
[01:25.350 --> 01:27.430]  The program is Off the Hook.
[01:27.710 --> 01:30.530]  Emmanuel Goldstein here with you on this Wednesday evening.
[01:34.050 --> 01:36.150]  And actually, we weren't even supposed to be here tonight.
[01:36.230 --> 01:39.190]  We were told that the hearings were going to go on a little bit longer.
[01:40.410 --> 01:41.110]  But guess what?
[01:41.170 --> 01:41.590]  They didn't.
[01:42.850 --> 01:43.970]  And we are here.
[01:44.070 --> 01:49.290]  In fact, we might even be here for longer, depending on if other people at the station believed what they were told.
[01:49.290 --> 01:53.650]  Of course, I'm a skeptic, so whenever somebody tells me you're preempted, I believe that I'm on.
[01:53.750 --> 01:55.710]  And once someone tells me that I'm on, I believe I'm preempted.
[01:55.790 --> 01:57.650]  So it's a healthy way to be around here.
[01:59.050 --> 02:01.730]  In any event, we have a full cast of characters here tonight.
[02:02.530 --> 02:03.550]  Over there is Jim.
[02:03.830 --> 02:04.190]  Hello.
[02:04.910 --> 02:05.310]  Mike.
[02:05.750 --> 02:06.070]  Hi.
[02:06.730 --> 02:07.130]  Redbird.
[02:07.350 --> 02:07.750]  Good evening.
[02:08.330 --> 02:09.130]  And Walter.
[02:09.490 --> 02:09.710]  Hey.
[02:10.430 --> 02:12.870]  And, well, I want you to do a Slick Zero, too.
[02:12.970 --> 02:13.670]  He's new here.
[02:14.090 --> 02:14.330]  Hello.
[02:19.290 --> 02:24.930]  Get back and bask in that for a little while, and maybe if you have something else to say later, just raise your hand or something like that.
[02:25.070 --> 02:26.510]  And, of course, Bernie joins us from Philadelphia.
[02:27.350 --> 02:28.610]  Good evening from Philadelphia.
[02:29.950 --> 02:31.550]  It's been an exciting day.
[02:31.570 --> 02:32.750]  I've been watching the hearings a little bit.
[02:32.850 --> 02:35.350]  Boy, the fisticuffs with Kennedy and Spector there.
[02:35.510 --> 02:36.490]  It's kind of fun.
[02:38.290 --> 02:39.110]  If you're into that.
[02:39.230 --> 02:40.210]  I guess nobody else watched it.
[02:40.310 --> 02:40.970]  It's the only one.
[02:41.190 --> 02:44.830]  Well, Kennedy proved he can't take a body blow, and Spector worked the body.
[02:45.230 --> 02:46.590]  I don't know what that even means.
[02:47.430 --> 02:49.170]  Well, if you're into fisticuffs, you understand.
[02:49.290 --> 02:49.670]  All right.
[02:49.750 --> 02:59.370]  Well, we have a lot of news of our own, and if we are on for longer, we'll certainly be able to take more phone calls and talk about more things in depth like we like to do every week.
[02:59.490 --> 03:04.530]  We always come out of here saying, boy, you know, it's too bad we didn't get to talk about that because it was really interesting.
[03:04.570 --> 03:10.050]  Of course, when people tell you that you're definitely not going to be on, you don't really prepare as full a show as normally.
[03:10.070 --> 03:13.930]  So it might sound like we don't have as much material, but we do.
[03:14.090 --> 03:14.630]  We really do.
[03:14.830 --> 03:16.250]  And we're masters at filling.
[03:16.530 --> 03:17.450]  Yeah, we certainly are.
[03:17.450 --> 03:20.950]  Just now, we filled three minutes without saying a damn thing.
[03:21.190 --> 03:22.930]  Bob and Weave and Vamp with the best of them.
[03:23.190 --> 03:23.310]  Yeah.
[03:23.890 --> 03:24.290]  Okay.
[03:24.410 --> 03:31.510]  So now, the story that really seems to be everywhere, I don't know if you guys have noticed this too, phone records.
[03:31.510 --> 03:34.110]  Phone records are for sale all of a sudden.
[03:34.250 --> 03:35.110]  Have you guys noticed this?
[03:35.290 --> 03:37.650]  Every newspaper has something about this.
[03:38.130 --> 03:44.830]  Apparently, you can go to websites and click a few buttons and insert your credit card number or something like that.
[03:44.930 --> 03:48.590]  And you can get information on someone's cell phone.
[03:48.590 --> 03:51.130]  You can get all the calls that they make in the last month.
[03:51.130 --> 03:54.150]  You can get a name of an unlisted phone number.
[03:54.270 --> 03:55.590]  You can get an address of a phone number.
[03:55.710 --> 03:56.990]  You can get all sorts of things like that.
[03:57.230 --> 03:58.570]  Bernie, have you been following this?
[03:59.170 --> 04:01.010]  I have, and it doesn't surprise me.
[04:01.990 --> 04:10.470]  What surprises me is the blatancy of it, that they can just simply go out there and say, okay, we'll give you all the numbers that this person called on their cell phone.
[04:11.390 --> 04:12.630]  And they're just doing it.
[04:12.750 --> 04:16.090]  It sounds like something that should be illegal, but apparently there's some kind of a loophole.
[04:17.250 --> 04:18.470]  I don't know about the loophole.
[04:18.590 --> 04:23.010]  I would imagine it's illegal, or at least against the policies of the carriers.
[04:23.670 --> 04:29.650]  But this happened to me several years ago with just my wireline at the time of the Atlantic.
[04:30.050 --> 04:36.330]  Someone purloined my billing records, and it was just social engineering tactics they used.
[04:36.630 --> 04:42.450]  Well, social engineering, that, of course, is just simply making up a story and getting somebody to tell you something that they're not supposed to tell you.
[04:43.250 --> 04:44.790]  That's as old as the hills.
[04:45.010 --> 04:48.910]  We've always had the ability to go out there and simply get a phone company to give us information.
[04:49.130 --> 04:52.990]  But this seems so systematic that it's a business.
[04:53.170 --> 04:55.630]  Literally, businesses are being run that do this.
[04:56.490 --> 05:00.370]  And I'm sure we can come up with a few websites that are out there.
[05:00.650 --> 05:04.210]  It reminds me of the businesses that were set up to spoof caller ID for a price.
[05:04.590 --> 05:06.990]  Yeah, but except, you know, that's really not illegal.
[05:07.150 --> 05:08.370]  At least, I don't think that should be illegal.
[05:08.530 --> 05:09.190]  You simply...
[05:09.190 --> 05:13.010]  No, but it's interesting in the sense that some people were able to do it and others weren't.
[05:13.070 --> 05:15.510]  And then all of a sudden, the people who weren't able to do it can pay for it.
[05:15.690 --> 05:15.890]  Uh-huh.
[05:16.530 --> 05:19.010]  One site is called locatecell.com.
[05:19.350 --> 05:26.530]  And for $110, they will provide you with the outgoing calls from a cell phone for the last billing cycle up to 100 calls.
[05:26.630 --> 05:28.950]  I imagine there's probably another fee to pay if you want to get more than that.
[05:30.090 --> 05:32.450]  You have to supply the name, address, and number.
[05:32.450 --> 05:34.250]  Or, interestingly, you have to supply the address as well.
[05:34.990 --> 05:36.530]  You get results within hours.
[05:37.690 --> 05:39.350]  It's kind of scary, isn't it?
[05:39.450 --> 05:41.010]  A hundred calls is really not...
[05:41.010 --> 05:41.590]  It's not...
[05:41.590 --> 05:43.290]  Most people make more than that in a month.
[05:43.590 --> 05:44.290]  They're cleaning up.
[05:44.390 --> 05:44.970]  They are cleaning up.
[05:45.050 --> 05:53.010]  But what I've heard is that the same privacy protection does not apply to wireless phone companies as it does to wired phone companies.
[05:53.190 --> 05:55.910]  Well, we don't really have privacy protections in this country.
[05:55.950 --> 05:57.490]  So I'm not surprised at all.
[05:57.490 --> 06:08.010]  A lot of European countries have laws that make it illegal to share personal information without the authorization of the person whose information you're sharing.
[06:08.610 --> 06:14.170]  In the United States, the information is owned not by the person it's about, but by the company that collected it.
[06:14.350 --> 06:19.410]  And it can therefore be sold all over the place with the exception of health records.
[06:20.670 --> 06:22.850]  So it's really unsurprising.
[06:23.030 --> 06:27.690]  Well, according to security officials at Verizon Wireless, there are probably a hundred such sites.
[06:28.470 --> 06:33.570]  And Jeffrey Nelson, the company spokesman, said Verizon is always trying to respond to abusive practices.
[06:33.730 --> 06:41.510]  He said the company views all such activity as illegal and that we have historically and will continue to change policies to reflect the changing nature of criminal activity.
[06:42.950 --> 06:50.710]  Meanwhile, the spokesperson for Singular Wireless, Mark Siegel, said his company constantly is on guard against people trying to get customer information.
[06:50.870 --> 06:56.790]  But he called the acquisition of call records an infinitesimally small problem at his firm.
[06:56.910 --> 06:58.810]  Now, there's a couple of ways to read that.
[06:59.070 --> 07:02.530]  Either it's something that doesn't happen to them or something they really don't care about.
[07:02.530 --> 07:11.490]  It may be an infinitesimally small problem for his firm, but I'm sure it could be an immense problem for the person whose records are being obtained.
[07:11.850 --> 07:12.190]  Absolutely.
[07:12.390 --> 07:13.690]  It doesn't take much.
[07:13.690 --> 07:22.290]  I'll leave it as an exercise for the listener to figure out what could go wrong if someone has the record of the last 100 calls you made on your cell phone.
[07:22.670 --> 07:35.190]  An ex-wife or ex-husband, someone stalking you, someone going after you for a debt, someone going after you for criminal reasons, either yours in the past or theirs in the future.
[07:35.330 --> 07:36.770]  I mean, the list could be endless.
[07:37.230 --> 07:41.010]  What I'm curious about is where are they getting the information from specifically?
[07:41.150 --> 07:42.450]  Who's providing it to them?
[07:42.570 --> 07:46.810]  Well, that's something that I think would be amazingly simple for them to figure out if they really do care about this.
[07:47.010 --> 07:57.770]  All they have to do is go to this website themselves and put in one of their phone numbers and then see who calls to get information about it or how information might be gotten.
[07:58.070 --> 07:59.990]  Is a website of theirs accessed?
[08:00.390 --> 08:03.530]  Does somebody get a phone call from somebody pretending to be somebody else?
[08:03.910 --> 08:09.590]  Or do they just already have access to everything like maybe law enforcement or private investigators have?
[08:09.590 --> 08:18.310]  I'm sort of wondering if some of these websites are also just scams where they take your credit card and don't provide you the information in question.
[08:18.430 --> 08:25.390]  Well, according to reporters that have been reporting on this story, they've tested it themselves and they've gotten their own cell phone information.
[08:25.790 --> 08:30.290]  So I would imagine, unless there's some vast conspiracy, that there is something to this.
[08:30.470 --> 08:38.430]  Now, that's not to say that there aren't going to be 100 or 1,000 imitation sites that don't give you anything and just take your credit card number, but that's the nature of the internet anyway.
[08:38.430 --> 08:49.350]  Yeah, the information is that there are hundreds of sites that are doing this and I just... I find it perfectly credible that there would be a few people who have the connections to set something like this up.
[08:49.530 --> 08:58.150]  But hundreds sounds like either the cell phone companies have serious problems with security on their hands or at least some of the sites are scams.
[08:58.610 --> 09:04.570]  Well, I mean, I do know that private investigators are able to get this information legitimately, quote unquote.
[09:05.130 --> 09:19.610]  Now, all it takes is one corrupt private investigator or one corrupt cop or somebody who has, again, quote unquote, legitimate access to this, simply going into business or being anonymous and sharing information with someone else.
[09:20.170 --> 09:22.850]  And all of a sudden, there's no privacy anymore.
[09:23.090 --> 09:27.990]  So in a way, I think this is good because it opens people's eyes to what is out there and what certain people can get.
[09:28.190 --> 09:30.250]  Like, you know, cops can look up anything on anybody.
[09:30.250 --> 09:34.130]  If they see a license plate go by, they can get all the information about the person.
[09:34.530 --> 09:36.530]  It's important to know that this can be done.
[09:37.210 --> 09:38.670]  So now we know this can be done.
[09:38.750 --> 09:40.810]  The question is, what's the reaction going to be?
[09:42.770 --> 09:48.470]  I think I can tell you what the reaction won't be, and that's blaming the companies whose fault this is.
[09:49.010 --> 09:52.690]  They'll, if we're lucky, go after the operators of these websites.
[09:52.690 --> 09:59.330]  But I find it highly unlikely that there will be any penalties for the companies who are disclosing people's data so wantonly.
[09:59.330 --> 10:06.270]  Is it at all possible that these sites are actually a part, a hidden part of the cell phone companies?
[10:06.790 --> 10:09.290]  Well, what possible...
[10:09.290 --> 10:10.790]  An extra source of income.
[10:12.210 --> 10:17.630]  I don't really think they, even the cell phone companies are that sleazy, but that's an interesting theory.
[10:17.870 --> 10:18.070]  Yeah.
[10:18.690 --> 10:22.490]  Well, as you mentioned, this information is provided to private investigators already.
[10:22.490 --> 10:29.010]  So why would it be the phone company's fault if a PI was going into business for his own selling information that he has access to?
[10:30.010 --> 10:35.910]  Well, the question is, should that access be available in the first place, even to private investigators?
[10:36.350 --> 10:40.210]  Are phone calls something that should be kept confidential?
[10:41.970 --> 10:44.050]  Why hasn't this happened with landlines?
[10:44.190 --> 10:45.210]  Why only cell phones?
[10:45.310 --> 10:45.870]  Yeah, it's interesting.
[10:46.190 --> 10:53.270]  That's why I think it's got something to do with the fact that there is no legislation covering wireless phone calls, which I'm not even sure is true.
[10:53.270 --> 10:56.070]  This is what several reports have indicated.
[10:56.290 --> 11:04.050]  But if you look at these sites, invariably, they don't have the information on at least local phone calls.
[11:04.550 --> 11:08.890]  I have seen some long-distance phone companies that apparently are easy to get as well.
[11:09.050 --> 11:10.190]  So I don't know.
[11:10.290 --> 11:14.210]  It's anybody's guess as to just why they seem to focus on cell phones more.
[11:14.670 --> 11:16.390]  Bernie, any theories down there?
[11:18.670 --> 11:19.870]  I have no theories.
[11:20.190 --> 11:27.090]  I just think it's companies using pure capitalism to buy and sell a product.
[11:27.270 --> 11:30.750]  I mean, people are astonished that illegal drugs are available on every street corner.
[11:31.630 --> 11:33.650]  But they're readily available, so I hear.
[11:33.830 --> 11:35.830]  So, you know, this should be no different.
[11:36.050 --> 11:38.650]  If there's a demand, there will be a supplier.
[11:39.310 --> 11:43.030]  Yeah, well, the real question, though, is how are they getting the information in the first place?
[11:43.030 --> 11:49.710]  And do you think there will be some kind of a law drawn up in the next week or something that will prevent this kind of thing from happening?
[11:50.010 --> 12:03.330]  No, I think they're just people at cell phone companies that aren't being paid much of a living wage and are willing to compromise their integrity and sell these records to anybody willing to pay for them.
[12:03.410 --> 12:06.630]  Oh, so you think it's corrupt cell phone employees that are behind this?
[12:06.930 --> 12:07.330]  Absolutely.
[12:07.630 --> 12:08.030]  Okay.
[12:09.190 --> 12:11.930]  Well, you know, there's got to be a way to guard against that.
[12:11.930 --> 12:22.050]  If you simply log when people access a customer's cell phone records and then if that person complains, you know exactly who it was that released the information.
[12:23.750 --> 12:26.470]  How do people know if this has happened to them, though?
[12:26.550 --> 12:28.810]  How do people go out and find this out and complain?
[12:29.070 --> 12:29.850]  That's a good point.
[12:29.950 --> 12:30.430]  That's a good point.
[12:30.430 --> 12:33.430]  The person who gets it is probably not going to tell you that he did it, is he?
[12:33.790 --> 12:39.610]  Yeah, and in general, what kind of recourse do people have in this country if their privacy has been, you know, violated?
[12:39.610 --> 12:52.310]  I think it would be interesting for one of us to try this on one of our accounts and then call up the company and ask them when the last time the record has been accessed because I know they generally do log when the record was last accessed by an employee.
[12:52.590 --> 13:06.870]  So if it is the case where an internal employee is leaking this information, then it may be possible to see, okay, well, if we requested this information last week and, you know, my account was also accessed last week, then it's an internal sort of job.
[13:06.870 --> 13:08.950]  You're saying we should spend $110 in...
[13:08.950 --> 13:11.610]  I don't really think it's worth $110 to find this out.
[13:11.630 --> 13:13.630]  Yeah, well, I don't think you get to bargain about that.
[13:14.130 --> 13:16.090]  That's pretty much the going rate right now.
[13:16.450 --> 13:25.850]  When I call my wireless carrier, Sprint PCS, and they ask for my credentials, I've got to give them my name and my secret password.
[13:26.230 --> 13:29.930]  It's clear to me that the person on the other end of the line can read my password.
[13:29.930 --> 13:31.450]  It's not something they're typing in.
[13:31.450 --> 13:44.230]  Oh, I've had interesting experiences with that where I've purposely changed one or two digits and the person's like, oh, you're close, or something like, you're just a couple off, or, you know, a comment like that.
[13:44.310 --> 13:49.670]  And it's very obvious that it's something on their screen that they're just comparing what you say to.
[13:49.930 --> 13:51.690]  And my password is not phonetic.
[13:51.790 --> 13:54.690]  In other words, when I read it, it's not as one would type it.
[13:55.030 --> 13:58.350]  So I pronounce it, though, and they always say, yep, that's it.
[13:58.350 --> 13:59.670]  So I know they're not typing it.
[14:00.290 --> 14:11.790]  So, you know, clearly the customer service reps at at least Sprint and probably other wireless carriers can have full access to your account information without ever having to really talk to you from a technical standpoint.
[14:12.270 --> 14:17.090]  So that indicates that they have the information and can readily sell it.
[14:18.430 --> 14:26.230]  It's scary, though, but it's also, like I said, an education because you see the information that's out there, you see the ease with which it's able to be obtained.
[14:26.230 --> 14:32.690]  And just like a cop can look up any private information on someone he's stalking, so can an employee at a phone company.
[14:32.810 --> 14:35.190]  And it's just very important to educate people about that.
[14:35.270 --> 14:43.150]  There might not be anything that actually can be done other than educating people and maybe seeing which companies have worse security than others.
[14:43.450 --> 14:45.230]  I don't agree with that assessment.
[14:45.370 --> 14:46.830]  There are certainly things that could be done.
[14:48.350 --> 14:50.530]  And I can come up with technical solutions.
[14:50.530 --> 14:54.190]  I don't know if they'd work or not, but I can tell you who does know, and it's the carriers.
[14:54.190 --> 15:05.330]  And if a law were passed to make it a crime to have systems where this information could be released, the cell phone companies would find these technical measures and implement them in a hurry.
[15:05.450 --> 15:11.550]  But how do you guard against one person at a phone company giving out information they're not supposed to give out?
[15:12.410 --> 15:20.030]  You can construct a system where the employee can't access the information unless he's on the phone with the customer.
[15:20.030 --> 15:25.530]  Okay, but if he says he believes that he's on the phone with the customer, how do you get around that?
[15:26.750 --> 15:33.690]  You can statistically analyze which employee has done this more than once or twice and draw inferences.
[15:33.910 --> 15:41.690]  I mean, like, I'm not saying my suggestions will work unmodified, the ones that I came up with in the past minute, but I'm sure that there's a technical solution.
[15:42.110 --> 15:51.470]  And if the cell phone companies, you know, had the threat of a million dollars fine hanging over their heads, they would spend half a million dollars to implement these systems.
[15:51.670 --> 15:56.790]  And you can bet they'd spend even more money than that to lobby against any such legislation ever being enacted.
[15:56.910 --> 15:57.790]  Well, that's the problem.
[15:58.370 --> 15:59.050]  Probably true.
[15:59.190 --> 15:59.690]  Probably true.
[16:00.350 --> 16:02.190]  Again, we'd like to hear from our listeners on this.
[16:02.190 --> 16:10.470]  If you've been victimized, if you have any theories, or if you've done it yourself, please write to us, OTH at 2600.com, or you can call us a little bit later.
[16:10.570 --> 16:11.530]  We'll be taking some phone calls.
[16:12.830 --> 16:14.850]  Another story that's been making the rounds...
[16:15.210 --> 16:16.630]  This is kind of a funny...
[16:16.630 --> 16:19.410]  Well, maybe not funny if you're the person involved, but it's funny to us.
[16:20.070 --> 16:26.130]  A Stark County high school senior has been arrested and charged for allegedly trying to crash his school's computer system.
[16:26.410 --> 16:31.290]  Police say the student created a website which connected to the school's system.
[16:31.590 --> 16:34.010]  I love these technical stories in newspapers.
[16:34.010 --> 16:38.470]  This comes from WKYC Channel 3 in...
[16:39.510 --> 16:41.650]  I don't even know what state this is.
[16:41.730 --> 16:44.090]  It's Uniontown, Stark County.
[16:44.130 --> 16:44.950]  Where are these places?
[16:44.970 --> 16:45.830]  I have no idea.
[16:46.290 --> 16:50.170]  And they don't say on their website because they assume everybody knows where they are.
[16:50.530 --> 16:50.690]  Oh, well.
[16:51.410 --> 16:57.750]  Anyway, when enough users logged on and hit the F5 button, it overloaded the school's system.
[16:58.330 --> 17:01.470]  But Lake High School caught on before the system crashed.
[17:01.590 --> 17:03.250]  Its computers started slowing down.
[17:03.710 --> 17:07.610]  It's a crime, and it is important we take this seriously, especially for school officials.
[17:07.830 --> 17:13.890]  It could have done a tremendous amount of damage, said Canton City Prosecutor Frank Franchione.
[17:14.710 --> 17:19.710]  Michael Stone, 18 years old, is charged with a felony and could face jail time.
[17:20.030 --> 17:24.830]  But prosecutors say community service is more likely and disciplinary action from the school.
[17:25.250 --> 17:26.250]  What I got out of all...
[17:26.250 --> 17:26.930]  Wait, wait, wait, wait.
[17:26.930 --> 17:27.790]  That's not even a sentence.
[17:28.970 --> 17:32.070]  Community service is more likely and disciplinary action from the school.
[17:32.070 --> 17:35.830]  My God, this is somebody who writes for a living coming up with sentences like that.
[17:35.930 --> 17:39.770]  It's a sentence that's said on the air, so on the air, it's not as bad as...
[17:39.770 --> 17:41.670]  Well, I said it on the air, and it felt horrible.
[17:41.790 --> 17:44.090]  Okay, well, we're literate, so...
[17:44.090 --> 17:44.490]  Redbird.
[17:44.850 --> 17:52.170]  It's just interesting that out of all the technical details that were presented in that article, it seems like a bunch of kids refreshed a web page at the same time.
[17:52.250 --> 17:55.010]  Well, okay, the F5 key basically does what?
[17:55.590 --> 17:58.850]  If you're in a browser, generally speaking, refresh the page.
[17:58.850 --> 17:59.950]  Okay, some people might not know that.
[18:00.190 --> 18:01.930]  Hit the F5 key, that's what it does.
[18:02.070 --> 18:03.130]  It basically just refresh...
[18:03.130 --> 18:04.570]  All browsers or just certain browsers?
[18:04.650 --> 18:05.010]  Most browsers.
[18:05.290 --> 18:05.430]  Okay.
[18:05.590 --> 18:06.490]  Anybody would be using.
[18:06.770 --> 18:12.250]  So the web page this person created must have told people to hit the F5 key or something?
[18:12.290 --> 18:13.270]  That's what it sounds like.
[18:13.870 --> 18:14.370]  And by...
[18:14.370 --> 18:15.610]  I don't understand.
[18:15.610 --> 18:20.150]  What kind of web page is a school running where if you hit F5 enough times, it's going to crash the system?
[18:20.210 --> 18:22.950]  It's a poor man's denial-of-service attack.
[18:23.190 --> 18:24.110]  It sure is.
[18:24.770 --> 18:25.210]  Wow.
[18:25.850 --> 18:32.890]  Theorically, any web page could cause a server to crash by enough millions and billions of people hitting F5.
[18:33.150 --> 18:33.690]  If you have...
[18:33.690 --> 18:36.850]  The school, I'm sure, does not expect to get an awful lot of traffic.
[18:37.050 --> 18:44.170]  So if it's got, you know, 40 people viewing this one web page and on the web page it says, for a good time, hit F5.
[18:45.430 --> 18:45.870]  Well...
[18:45.870 --> 18:52.390]  Or set up some kind of a contest where it has a page count of how many times you've refreshed and the highest number wins.
[18:52.390 --> 19:01.550]  I'll tell you what, if we can figure out where this place is, we can simply give out the address of that high school website and they'll have F5s going forever.
[19:02.570 --> 19:03.670]  I mean, this is insane.
[19:03.770 --> 19:04.530]  Bernie, can you believe this?
[19:04.550 --> 19:05.610]  A felony for this?
[19:07.690 --> 19:09.870]  I've heard this is bad, personally.
[19:10.770 --> 19:17.230]  Well, I know you have, but, you know, I mean, at least you had, you know, plastic explosives in your basement, or so they thought.
[19:17.590 --> 19:18.270]  Dental putty.
[19:18.450 --> 19:19.150]  Dental putty.
[19:19.150 --> 19:22.350]  And you had crystals, and, you know...
[19:22.850 --> 19:23.690]  I don't know.
[19:23.790 --> 19:26.510]  You were talking to black people in a parking lot of 7-Eleven.
[19:26.970 --> 19:27.450]  That's...
[19:27.450 --> 19:28.410]  In Pennsylvania.
[19:28.950 --> 19:30.150]  That's a crime right there.
[19:30.370 --> 19:35.310]  But this guy simply created a web page and told people to hit F5, and that's a felony?
[19:36.610 --> 19:39.810]  Well, according to the prosecutors, they think it is.
[19:39.970 --> 19:47.510]  I think they need a quick education in internet technology, which I think any junior high schooler would be happy to give them.
[19:49.770 --> 19:50.170]  Yeah.
[19:50.510 --> 19:56.590]  Well, I think this might be in Ohio because I'm seeing that it's the Akron-Canton News.
[19:56.710 --> 19:57.670]  Is there a Canton in Ohio?
[19:57.790 --> 19:58.350]  Yeah, there's a Canton.
[19:58.550 --> 19:58.810]  Okay.
[19:58.890 --> 19:59.970]  So this is probably in Ohio.
[20:00.630 --> 20:06.370]  So if you can find the Stark County High School web page, we have some fun for them to experience.
[20:06.530 --> 20:15.510]  But boy, yeah, it's so typical, isn't it, of how people view technology, you know, do something we don't understand, and they can actually charge someone with a felony.
[20:15.510 --> 20:19.310]  I mean, it's clear that among the people who don't understand is the reporter here.
[20:19.610 --> 20:20.350]  Oh, yeah.
[20:20.990 --> 20:24.010]  Can't even string a sentence together, but certainly doesn't understand the technology involved.
[20:24.270 --> 20:39.750]  The sad thing about this is that the student is likely to get blamed for this, what amounts to a distributed denial-of-service attack, albeit one that's manually implemented by lots of people hitting F5 on their keyboard.
[20:39.950 --> 20:48.230]  They're going to be blamed for all these people hitting F5 that heard of the case because of the prosecutor's action.
[20:48.510 --> 20:53.090]  And probably, yeah, people who are figuring out what the webpage is now and going there because we told them to.
[20:53.310 --> 20:53.450]  Yeah.
[20:53.670 --> 20:55.530]  It's all going to fall on this poor kid's head.
[20:56.210 --> 21:03.210]  Because the prosecutor decided to take this thing public when it was just a very silly prank, if anything.
[21:04.090 --> 21:06.010]  I don't even know if it qualifies as a prank.
[21:06.010 --> 21:07.810]  It's creating a webpage, for God's sake.
[21:07.810 --> 21:09.090]  It's just...
[21:09.730 --> 21:10.750]  I don't...
[21:10.750 --> 21:13.290]  What kind of webpages are these people creating?
[21:13.390 --> 21:17.530]  What kind of software or bandwidth do they have where they can't handle a few people hitting a webpage?
[21:18.310 --> 21:19.410]  It's really...
[21:19.410 --> 21:20.870]  It's very silly.
[21:21.170 --> 21:24.330]  I mean, you know, we've been slash dotted and we've survived that.
[21:24.770 --> 21:30.250]  This probably comes nowhere near a comparison of that many hits and they crash.
[21:30.950 --> 21:32.070]  It's just sad.
[21:32.990 --> 21:33.590]  Okay.
[21:34.150 --> 21:35.250]  This is interesting.
[21:35.250 --> 21:40.510]  We talked about the eavesdropping scandal a few weeks ago.
[21:40.670 --> 21:51.110]  The NSA eavesdropping on Americans at the behest of President Bush bypassing all the laws, bypassing even the Patriot Act, bypassing even the secret courts.
[21:52.350 --> 21:58.010]  And believe it or not, most Americans think that's just fine.
[21:58.430 --> 22:10.550]  A poll of 1,003 adults found that 50% of those polled believe it's okay to forego warrants when ordering electronic surveillance of people suspected of having ties to terrorists abroad.
[22:10.950 --> 22:16.350]  Another 46% said the policy is wrong and 4% said they really don't care.
[22:16.950 --> 22:19.950]  The poll was conducted Friday through Sunday.
[22:22.870 --> 22:23.890]  I'm speechless.
[22:24.390 --> 22:33.610]  It's not even surprising just because of most people I've spoken with and their reaction to it, which is simply if you don't have anything to hide, then why do you care?
[22:33.610 --> 22:35.550]  Well, why bother having any laws at all then?
[22:35.770 --> 22:44.090]  Why not just have these, give these people carte blanche to go around and investigate anybody they feel like investigating because if they feel like investigating them, they must be suspected of something, right?
[22:45.030 --> 22:50.210]  It does kind of contradict the basic principle that the country was founded on.
[22:50.490 --> 22:55.470]  I'm not sure why people don't, you know, aren't worried about that.
[22:55.770 --> 22:57.530]  They don't know the Constitution.
[22:57.530 --> 23:00.010]  They don't know the Federalist Papers.
[23:00.230 --> 23:06.150]  So, for most people, it's totally irrelevant, immaterial, and unknown to them.
[23:06.310 --> 23:11.010]  So, don't worry about them not knowing that this is contradictory to our basic tenets.
[23:11.110 --> 23:12.470]  They don't know what our basic tenets are.
[23:13.250 --> 23:21.570]  Well, I think it's about time that we had some schooling on the basic tenets of our country here because they certainly are in danger.
[23:22.110 --> 23:24.030]  these are very scary times.
[23:24.470 --> 23:42.470]  And the argument about not having something to hide, 20 years from now, when you're a teenager now, for example, 20 years from now, you're in your mid-30s, you're applying for some sort of job, perhaps you're before the Senate in Supreme Court hearings to be confirmed to the Supreme Court.
[23:42.890 --> 23:45.210]  They'll bring up what happened 20 years ago.
[23:45.330 --> 23:50.550]  It may have been legal then, but now, 20 years later, uh-oh, uh-oh, it's very bad.
[23:50.670 --> 23:51.470]  Very, very bad.
[23:51.570 --> 23:55.830]  So when they say you have nothing to hide, well, maybe at this moment it's nothing to hide.
[23:56.050 --> 23:58.210]  20 years from now, it might be enough to hang you.
[23:58.650 --> 24:00.410]  That's what I don't like about this argument.
[24:00.990 --> 24:03.170]  Well, that's another aspect to it, I suppose.
[24:04.330 --> 24:09.110]  Uh, moving over to the United Kingdom, which is not exactly the bastion of freedom anymore either.
[24:09.810 --> 24:11.050]  Uh, get this.
[24:11.170 --> 24:12.110]  This, this is something.
[24:12.270 --> 24:14.370]  This will leave you speechless, as it left me.
[24:14.730 --> 24:23.450]  A UK court on Monday severely penalized a motorist for the crime of showing disrespect to a mobile speed camera van.
[24:25.370 --> 24:27.390]  I, I, I could not make this up.
[24:27.570 --> 24:37.430]  The device had photographed Sean Toehill, I also can't make up these names, 21 years old, Toehill, uh, driving 22 miles an hour in a 40 mile an hour zone.
[24:37.970 --> 24:38.810]  That's un-American.
[24:39.070 --> 24:40.170]  Well, yeah, okay, fine.
[24:40.950 --> 24:42.650]  But, uh, they still use miles too.
[24:43.130 --> 24:47.390]  Uh, police became enraged when they noticed he had given the camera a V sign.
[24:48.630 --> 24:51.390]  That's funny to have a picture of Winston Churchill giving the same V sign.
[24:51.470 --> 24:52.950]  That's generally speaking a good sign.
[24:53.090 --> 24:56.630]  Well, no, actually over there it's the same thing as the middle finger in England.
[24:56.810 --> 24:58.990]  So if you really want to get somebody angry over there, that's what you do.
[24:59.170 --> 24:59.570]  My mistake.
[24:59.770 --> 24:59.950]  Yeah.
[25:00.390 --> 25:01.870]  Actually, I think he's gonna have to do it this way.
[25:01.950 --> 25:02.050]  Right.
[25:02.150 --> 25:03.690]  The opposite of what Churchill's doing here.
[25:03.790 --> 25:04.550]  Don't do that on the radio.
[25:04.730 --> 25:07.710]  The people in the radio don't know the difference between this way and that way.
[25:07.730 --> 25:08.610]  Well, I'll do it this way.
[25:08.630 --> 25:09.290]  I'll do it this way.
[25:09.330 --> 25:11.570]  I'll do all the different ways I feel like doing it.
[25:11.590 --> 25:13.050]  If you haven't seen that, call us up later.
[25:13.070 --> 25:13.550]  We'll do it again.
[25:13.650 --> 25:15.410]  FCC is welcome to investigate.
[25:16.170 --> 25:21.770]  Okay, but if you invert the V and do it, I guess, with your knuckles facing outwards.
[25:21.810 --> 25:22.270]  Is that better?
[25:22.930 --> 25:24.570]  Okay, that's what this person did.
[25:24.910 --> 25:27.810]  Police became enraged when they noticed that he had done that to the camera.
[25:30.750 --> 25:37.670]  Two days later to present charges which the QPAR Sheriff Court in Fife, Scotland upheld on Monday.
[25:38.370 --> 25:45.470]  The court suspended Toehill's right to drive for a year and imposed a 90-pound fine.
[25:45.610 --> 25:46.850]  That's about 160 bucks.
[25:47.670 --> 25:54.310]  Toehill, who is a North Sea oil worker, told the London Telegraph, I can't believe that speed cameras can be used in this way.
[25:54.450 --> 25:56.710]  I thought they were to catch speeding drivers.
[25:57.310 --> 26:00.510]  He plans to appeal the ruling, but oh my God.
[26:00.510 --> 26:05.010]  I find it interesting that these cameras are monitored that often where they actually caught this guy doing that.
[26:05.270 --> 26:06.650]  Well, now we know they're monitored.
[26:06.770 --> 26:10.870]  Actually, you know, the United Kingdom is very big on cameras that they watch.
[26:11.050 --> 26:23.410]  I've told this story before where in Piccadilly Circus somebody was standing on this fountain where there was a statue and unbeknownst to everybody apparently there were cameras in the statue.
[26:23.890 --> 26:31.590]  So this person is drunk standing on top of the fountain or next to the fountain and all of a sudden this voice comes out of a speaker saying, come down from there.
[26:32.210 --> 26:37.670]  And it was just so very 1984 Orwellian prisoner-ish, Teletubbies, you know, whatever you have.
[26:37.890 --> 26:45.570]  The British are just into loudspeakers and cameras and things barking out commands to you from unknown places.
[26:46.930 --> 26:55.050]  So I guess I'm not that surprised, but my God, they really don't have anything to do over there if this is what they're penalizing people for.
[26:55.050 --> 26:56.650]  I wonder what he was charged with.
[26:57.190 --> 27:04.610]  Well, what it said was, what was it, insult, yeah, showing disrespect to a mobile speed camera van.
[27:04.670 --> 27:11.010]  That reminds me of disrespecting the flag, one of the charges in Pennsylvania that you were familiar with.
[27:11.530 --> 27:19.130]  Yes, well, what I was charged with was statutorily equivalent in penalty to that, but I ended up doing a lot of time.
[27:19.290 --> 27:20.790]  Actually, it was, yeah, insulting the flag.
[27:20.890 --> 27:21.910]  You did not insult the flag, though.
[27:21.910 --> 27:22.550]  No, I didn't.
[27:22.650 --> 27:33.430]  I was just, it was just a misdemeanor, too, that involved no victims, and that was one of the only, that and scattering rubbish were the only two other offenses I could find in the PA crimes code that were equivalent in severity to what I was charged with doing.
[27:34.430 --> 27:35.210]  So, anyway.
[27:35.490 --> 27:35.850]  Amazing.
[27:36.350 --> 27:37.730]  Do you know what else the British are into?
[27:38.270 --> 27:38.810]  Which is?
[27:39.090 --> 27:40.030]  Body scanning.
[27:40.650 --> 27:41.470]  Body scanning?
[27:41.610 --> 27:44.390]  Body scanning at the Paddington Station in London.
[27:44.390 --> 27:47.990]  There's a high-tech body scanner for detecting would-be terrorists.
[27:48.490 --> 27:48.690]  Uh-huh.
[27:48.690 --> 28:03.450]  And there will be a four-week trial in which passengers will be randomly selected to pass through the seven-meter box at the Heathrow Express platforms, while baggage is also screened, and there will then be further trials at other mainline and tube stations.
[28:03.710 --> 28:10.170]  Now, okay, when you say bodies are being scanned, how thoroughly are they scanning them?
[28:10.170 --> 28:11.190]  It's not really clear.
[28:11.190 --> 28:21.470]  I couldn't find any pictures of the scanning, but apparently it's thorough enough that they are having only scanner operators of the same gender as the passers-through.
[28:21.650 --> 28:23.170]  I've seen pictures of this.
[28:23.290 --> 28:25.110]  Wait, how have you seen pictures?
[28:25.370 --> 28:25.930]  They've been out.
[28:26.210 --> 28:27.870]  This is not new technology.
[28:27.990 --> 28:29.890]  But no, but the pictures, how are the pictures getting out?
[28:29.910 --> 28:36.470]  Not of this specific scanner, but of scanners like this, and you basically see the person completely naked.
[28:36.950 --> 28:38.010]  It's pretty bad.
[28:38.450 --> 28:41.370]  But as far as I know, this is still voluntary at that station?
[28:41.890 --> 28:47.490]  I think it's, well, there's a four-week trial which hasn't started yet, so I think once the trial starts it won't be voluntary.
[28:47.530 --> 28:48.590]  Who would volunteer for this?
[28:48.690 --> 28:50.290]  Or is it voluntary to ride the trains too?
[28:50.450 --> 28:51.090]  Is that what they're saying?
[28:51.110 --> 28:51.970]  It may be voluntary.
[28:52.350 --> 28:55.010]  It may be like, now you can play with it until we start.
[28:55.350 --> 28:56.370]  That's what I get.
[28:57.110 --> 28:59.330]  But there's one particularly worrying sentence.
[28:59.490 --> 29:00.750]  This is the BBC article.
[29:01.410 --> 29:10.010]  It says, tests at London's Liverpool station in 2003 led to too many false alarms, but a more sophisticated version is being tested in New York.
[29:10.490 --> 29:11.150]  Oh, really?
[29:12.230 --> 29:13.370]  Oh, I had no idea.
[29:13.370 --> 29:14.450]  We must find this.
[29:14.450 --> 29:22.030]  So, I don't know if it's a mistake because it's made by an American company and they were, you know, really tired when they wrote the article, but...
[29:22.030 --> 29:24.230]  No, the BBC doesn't mess up like that.
[29:24.330 --> 29:24.830]  I don't know.
[29:25.030 --> 29:28.830]  Sometimes they reveal things they're not supposed to reveal, but they usually reveal the truth.
[29:29.310 --> 29:29.890]  Well, there you have it.
[29:29.890 --> 29:30.690]  That's not an endorsement.
[29:30.830 --> 29:31.470]  It just happens to be.
[29:31.510 --> 29:32.330]  I have a...
[29:32.330 --> 29:34.670]  Do we know where to buy lead suits?
[29:36.530 --> 29:38.750]  Because I think I might want to get one soon.
[29:38.930 --> 29:45.610]  Well, I imagine if you would pass through there with a lead suit, they would have some further questions for you, including, will you please remove the lead suit?
[29:46.110 --> 29:48.970]  How about a lead apron for radiographic purposes?
[29:49.150 --> 29:49.750]  Those are obtainable.
[29:49.950 --> 30:03.510]  So, my question about these scanners is, and I really don't want anybody to interpret this too much, but supposedly it's to make sure that you're not carrying a weapon anywhere on you, including very close to your genitals or such.
[30:03.510 --> 30:05.770]  What if you're carrying something internally?
[30:05.990 --> 30:07.210]  Do these things spot that?
[30:08.270 --> 30:08.850]  What do you mean?
[30:08.890 --> 30:10.010]  If you swallow a gun or something?
[30:10.030 --> 30:13.830]  Well, I was thinking more of Papillon, the Steve McQueen, Dustin Hoffman movie.
[30:14.190 --> 30:19.070]  But, yeah, swallow a gun in pieces and remove it later on.
[30:19.470 --> 30:21.630]  This is a huge security flaw, Jim.
[30:21.970 --> 30:22.930]  I know it's a huge security flaw.
[30:22.930 --> 30:33.630]  They're going to have to improve this so that these things robotically check you out for weapons you may have ingested or put somewhere else.
[30:33.910 --> 30:36.090]  Walter, please give these people no ideas.
[30:36.870 --> 30:42.250]  There's yet another problem with this system and that is that it takes 80 seconds to happen.
[30:42.370 --> 30:42.990]  80 seconds?
[30:43.110 --> 30:44.070]  Which I can't imagine.
[30:44.170 --> 30:45.310]  I don't have 80 seconds.
[30:45.570 --> 30:47.230]  You know, because they're all gawking over the people.
[30:47.650 --> 30:48.450]  That's why.
[30:48.670 --> 30:50.530]  Hey, Fran, come over here and take a look at this.
[30:50.570 --> 30:51.910]  Have you ever seen something like that before?
[30:52.270 --> 31:03.450]  Even the head of the thing, the transport secretary, Alstair Darling, quoted in the Independent of London, said you simply couldn't have people queuing up for hours to get through.
[31:03.610 --> 31:05.850]  You would be doing the terrorist job for them.
[31:06.130 --> 31:12.490]  What you can do is ask yourself whether on a selective basis at a point where it is appropriate it could help to make things safer and reduce the risk.
[31:12.670 --> 31:22.710]  So even the person who's in charge of the department that's in charge of the this, that, and the other, the top of the line says that this is not practical.
[31:25.330 --> 31:28.150]  You know, every week it just gets crazier and crazier.
[31:28.410 --> 31:32.130]  But thanks everybody for sending us stories and links and things like that.
[31:32.670 --> 31:35.210]  At Off the Hook, we'll continue to report on things like that.
[31:35.270 --> 31:36.830]  And of course, we want to hear from you.
[31:37.130 --> 31:47.510]  OTH at 2600.com is our email address, but we also have a snail mail address, which you're welcome to write to us at with postcards, letters, packages.
[31:47.890 --> 31:49.430]  More expensive to do it now.
[31:53.270 --> 31:54.910]  there's all kinds of things you can send us.
[31:55.190 --> 31:59.010]  Parcels, books, there's no limit.
[31:59.170 --> 32:00.010]  Cakes with files.
[32:00.170 --> 32:01.770]  Yeah, you can't send these things to the internet.
[32:02.730 --> 32:04.310]  And of course, you'll need the address.
[32:04.590 --> 32:05.550]  All right, get ready.
[32:05.630 --> 32:13.010]  The address is, off the hook, care of WBAI, 120 Wall Street.
[32:15.290 --> 32:16.330]  No, 10th floor.
[32:17.890 --> 32:18.650]  What happened?
[32:18.730 --> 32:19.130]  What happened?
[32:19.150 --> 32:19.870]  You fell asleep there?
[32:20.470 --> 32:21.030]  All right.
[32:21.730 --> 32:23.070]  We'll have to talk about this later.
[32:23.190 --> 32:23.830]  New York, New York.
[32:24.110 --> 32:26.450]  1-0-0-0-5.
[32:26.630 --> 32:29.890]  And I was thinking of expanding and getting another line for somebody else.
[32:30.470 --> 32:31.470]  You're holding us up.
[32:31.570 --> 32:32.250]  I'm sorry.
[32:32.670 --> 32:33.590]  I think others could handle this.
[32:33.590 --> 32:35.050]  I've been doing good up till now.
[32:35.470 --> 32:35.750]  All right.
[32:37.530 --> 32:38.490]  A mystery sound.
[32:38.630 --> 32:39.650]  We have a mystery sound this week.
[32:40.030 --> 32:43.270]  And again, people in the studio and Bernie S.
[32:43.370 --> 32:46.470]  on the phone are instructed not to blurt out what the mystery sound is.
[32:47.270 --> 32:53.130]  If our listeners know what it is, they are instructed to call us at 2-1-2-2-0-9-2-9-0-0.
[32:53.850 --> 32:57.310]  And tell us what this mystery sound is.
[33:24.980 --> 33:25.420]  Okay.
[33:25.560 --> 33:28.500]  And saying something like beeps and music is not going to be enough.
[33:28.660 --> 33:32.860]  You have to tell us where it's from, where you might have heard it, that kind of thing.
[33:32.980 --> 33:33.780]  Come on, this one's easy.
[33:33.780 --> 33:35.500]  It's easy for us.
[33:35.680 --> 33:36.640]  It's easy for us.
[33:36.820 --> 33:37.640]  I mean, it's easy.
[33:37.660 --> 33:39.080]  Look at all the people who are already calling.
[33:39.100 --> 33:46.440]  Well, you know, it provides a pause in a day's occupation for somebody and thinks they actually got a hard question right.
[33:46.640 --> 33:48.780]  Extra credit if you can identify a piece of music.
[33:48.860 --> 33:50.380]  Most people don't know this, all right?
[33:50.380 --> 33:54.380]  If I went out to the street and just played that on a boombox, nobody would know what I was doing.
[33:54.480 --> 33:57.620]  I think more people will know it in New York than in, say, Cedar Rapids, Iowa.
[33:58.220 --> 34:00.760]  All right, pick a random number from 1 to 10.
[34:01.580 --> 34:02.040]  That one?
[34:02.560 --> 34:03.360]  Yeah, that one?
[34:03.480 --> 34:03.620]  Yeah.
[34:03.800 --> 34:04.120]  All right.
[34:04.680 --> 34:05.740]  And good evening, you're on.
[34:07.140 --> 34:07.920]  Yes, go ahead.
[34:08.520 --> 34:10.140]  Yeah, it's from the BBC.
[34:11.200 --> 34:12.320]  Can you be more specific?
[34:15.500 --> 34:21.440]  The news from the BBC, any time they start the news, usually they play this music.
[34:21.500 --> 34:22.860]  Okay, well, I'll accept that.
[34:22.940 --> 34:23.380]  That's close enough.
[34:23.460 --> 34:26.000]  But you know, they haven't played that music in the last few years, have they?
[34:26.660 --> 34:32.560]  Yes, I heard it like late night around three o'clock.
[34:32.800 --> 34:33.320]  When?
[34:33.560 --> 34:34.160]  They played.
[34:34.400 --> 34:35.340]  How long ago?
[34:36.200 --> 34:38.500]  About a week or so.
[34:38.640 --> 34:39.020]  Oh, really?
[34:39.340 --> 34:39.600]  Yeah.
[34:39.780 --> 34:44.200]  Okay, because, you know, I listen to BBC World Service late night.
[34:44.520 --> 34:47.500]  They broadcast it here in America over public radio.
[34:47.740 --> 34:49.720]  And they play a different theme now.
[35:01.480 --> 35:03.140]  Yes, that's why I'm familiar with it.
[35:03.820 --> 35:04.580]  Wow, okay.
[35:04.800 --> 35:06.100]  Well, I'm going to take your word on that.
[35:06.120 --> 35:07.080]  Are you driving a cab right now?
[35:07.540 --> 35:07.860]  Yes.
[35:08.160 --> 35:08.380]  Okay.
[35:08.740 --> 35:10.080]  Do you have a passenger?
[35:11.040 --> 35:11.360]  Yes.
[35:13.560 --> 35:18.380]  Well, I don't want to get you in trouble with the passenger, but we know a lot of cabbies listen to us, and it's great to know you're out there.
[35:18.760 --> 35:20.860]  How do you listen to the BBC in your cab?
[35:21.140 --> 35:24.580]  He listens to the BBC by listening to public radio between 1 and 6 in the morning, right?
[35:24.780 --> 35:25.180]  Ah, okay.
[35:30.900 --> 35:35.040]  Okay, well, we'll let you go to the other station occasionally, but just make sure you come back here.
[35:37.120 --> 35:39.580]  Just make sure BAI is the number one station.
[35:40.020 --> 35:41.020]  Yes, it's the number one.
[35:41.060 --> 35:41.440]  All right.
[35:41.620 --> 35:42.900]  I'm a number two, you know.
[35:43.420 --> 35:43.740]  Okay.
[35:44.140 --> 35:45.040]  Okay, thank you.
[35:45.240 --> 35:46.040]  All right, thanks for calling.
[35:47.200 --> 35:54.260]  And if he turns his radio up fast, the passenger can hear the seven second delay and hear his voice, which I guess would be a thrill of some sort.
[35:54.260 --> 35:55.900]  But yes, that is correct.
[35:55.900 --> 35:59.860]  And I guess maybe it was easy for some people.
[36:00.040 --> 36:01.160]  I don't think we even gave out.
[36:02.100 --> 36:02.620]  I'm sorry.
[36:02.780 --> 36:09.500]  Go ahead, do you remember when they used to play the chimes of Big Ben instead of the electronic beats on the BBC?
[36:10.140 --> 36:15.140]  Well, they used to play the chimes of Big Ben on the quarter hour, the half hour, and the three quarters hour.
[36:15.320 --> 36:16.160]  They used to do that.
[36:16.340 --> 36:17.200]  That was pretty cool.
[36:17.580 --> 36:20.180]  And I'll never forget the first time I heard that.
[36:20.180 --> 36:22.940]  I was playing with a shortwave radio.
[36:23.020 --> 36:24.080]  I didn't even know it was a shortwave radio.
[36:24.260 --> 36:28.180]  I think I was at my grandparents' house, and they had this huge radio that had names of cities on it.
[36:28.420 --> 36:29.640]  And I was just tuning through.
[36:29.880 --> 36:39.500]  It was late night for me at about 10 o'clock, and I heard this British accent, and they were talking about something that was happening on the day after the day that it was, and I couldn't figure out how they were in the future.
[36:40.260 --> 36:45.840]  And then they started playing all this music and the chimes of Big Ben, and I realized I was actually listening to something from across the ocean.
[36:46.080 --> 36:49.080]  And I don't know if people have the same sense of mystery
[36:54.260 --> 36:55.840]  phone call sounded long distance.
[36:56.160 --> 37:05.040]  Calling from Long Island to New York City was long distance, but imagine calling to Alaska or France or something crazy like that.
[37:05.080 --> 37:06.240]  It really sounded far away.
[37:06.380 --> 37:07.800]  Today, everything sounds nearby.
[37:08.120 --> 37:14.320]  You know, there's something to be said for more primitive technologies giving you a greater love and appreciation of technology.
[37:14.320 --> 37:21.140]  I remember as a kid, most TV stations would be off by one in the morning, and even radio stations.
[37:21.140 --> 37:34.120]  I remember going upstate in the 60s and 70s to my family's relatives in a small town in western New York called Dunkirk, and all the local radio stations would switch off.
[37:34.220 --> 37:38.580]  There'd be like two stations in Buffalo, and you'd pick up things from a thousand miles away.
[37:39.720 --> 37:40.840]  You still can.
[37:41.220 --> 37:44.880]  Well, true, but generally everything local is still on.
[37:44.980 --> 37:46.300]  You have to search in between.
[37:46.660 --> 37:49.380]  There, you could have it preset to the local station.
[37:49.380 --> 37:55.500]  It goes off at two or three in the morning, and then you suddenly pick up stations weaker, you know, a thousand, two thousand miles away.
[37:55.640 --> 38:00.540]  And you'd get things like sky wave interference, AM radio would bounce in from distant cities.
[38:00.800 --> 38:05.600]  In the summertime, VHF TV stations, you'd pick up from all different places.
[38:05.600 --> 38:09.560]  I used to pick up Philadelphia and Boston all the time in New York, and I wouldn't be able to get New York.
[38:09.720 --> 38:11.960]  It would just be a mishmash of signals.
[38:12.060 --> 38:17.360]  Now everybody has cable, everybody has satellite, so they don't experience the thrill of exploring anymore.
[38:18.800 --> 38:20.260]  As long as they keep paying their bill.
[38:23.140 --> 38:27.520]  Interestingly enough, I don't have cable, so I pick up two Philadelphia stations late at night on my TV.
[38:27.800 --> 38:27.980]  Really?
[38:28.200 --> 38:28.320]  Yeah.
[38:28.760 --> 38:29.980]  You know, there's still stuff to explore.
[38:30.140 --> 38:31.040]  Oh, I know, I know.
[38:31.260 --> 38:32.300]  Well, tell me what it is.
[38:32.340 --> 38:36.420]  Well, you could play around on other radio bands and get interested in amateur radio.
[38:36.520 --> 38:37.380]  Ham radio, for instance.
[38:37.560 --> 38:37.940]  You could do that.
[38:38.120 --> 38:39.940]  Well, I have a story about ham radio, in fact.
[38:40.180 --> 38:44.780]  This whole thing was simply to get you to mention ham radio, and you played into it marvelously.
[38:44.920 --> 38:46.180]  It doesn't take that much.
[38:46.600 --> 38:47.280]  No, that's true.
[38:47.700 --> 38:48.960]  Every 10 minutes he says something about ham radio.
[38:49.100 --> 38:57.960]  Anyway, but back on May 12th, 2005, I'm reading a letter from actually Joe
[39:01.700 --> 39:02.060]  W2JLH.
[39:02.200 --> 39:02.680]  Do you know him?
[39:02.840 --> 39:03.380]  No, I don't.
[39:04.500 --> 39:05.560]  If I set someone's call...
[39:05.560 --> 39:06.440]  It's possible, but...
[39:06.440 --> 39:09.460]  If I set someone's call signs, you would actually recognize it based on the call sign?
[39:09.520 --> 39:10.720]  If I knew the person, sure.
[39:10.880 --> 39:11.080]  Okay.
[39:12.140 --> 39:13.260]  I know Bernie's call sign.
[39:13.360 --> 39:16.500]  I know everybody who has a license in here, which is only one person.
[39:16.500 --> 39:22.920]  Is it considered an encroachment on your personal life to give out your call sign?
[39:23.000 --> 39:23.940]  I could give out my call sign.
[39:23.980 --> 39:24.520]  Give out your call sign.
[39:24.680 --> 39:25.420]  K-2-B-A-T.
[39:25.980 --> 39:26.920]  K-2-B-A-T.
[39:27.040 --> 39:28.560]  That's kind of cool because it spells out a word.
[39:29.040 --> 39:30.220]  It's a vanity sign.
[39:30.500 --> 39:32.360]  Oh, so you had to pay extra for the vanity sign.
[39:32.660 --> 39:34.500]  It wasn't that much, but yeah.
[39:35.240 --> 39:35.560]  Wow.
[39:35.740 --> 39:37.940]  Anybody else want to give out their call signs as long as we're in this mode?
[39:38.420 --> 39:38.740]  Walter?
[39:38.900 --> 39:41.180]  My call sign is K-C-2-O-G-Y.
[39:41.920 --> 39:43.460]  K-C-2-O-G-Y.
[39:43.460 --> 39:45.460]  I can't help but notice you're both Ks.
[39:46.320 --> 39:47.440]  There's a reason for that.
[39:47.440 --> 39:59.620]  Well, obviously the Mississippi River thing doesn't apply to ham radio where call signs only begin with K west of the Mississippi and W east of the Mississippi except for ones that were grandfathered like KYW and KDKA and ones like that.
[40:00.940 --> 40:03.340]  so I guess there's no logic whatsoever.
[40:03.700 --> 40:12.520]  No, they're usually assigned in sequential order and around here it's what KC-2 and then like maybe they're still in the O's or something like that but they're in sequential order.
[40:12.680 --> 40:12.980]  I see.
[40:13.080 --> 40:22.620]  And you could apply for vanity signs based on your license class and you could get shorter ones if you're a lot higher class and there's all sorts of interesting rules that are probably too complex to get into now.
[40:22.820 --> 40:23.260]  Okay.
[40:23.460 --> 40:26.300]  And the ham radio world kind of ties into the hacker world rather nicely.
[40:26.560 --> 40:32.960]  We just sort of trade stories and have the same kind of I guess interest in exploring technology and playing with things.
[40:34.180 --> 40:36.540]  Before I continue anybody else want to give out the call signs?
[40:38.060 --> 40:38.580]  N3KOW.
[40:38.880 --> 40:39.400]  Wait.
[40:39.640 --> 40:40.560]  Yours begins with an N?
[40:41.160 --> 40:43.860]  November 3 Kilowatt Oscar Whiskey.
[40:44.080 --> 40:45.420]  How does yours begin with an N?
[40:46.620 --> 40:47.160]  It does.
[40:47.460 --> 40:49.880]  So WK and N?
[40:50.580 --> 40:52.380]  WK and there's also A.
[40:52.780 --> 40:53.060]  Really?
[40:53.280 --> 40:53.480]  Yes.
[40:53.580 --> 40:54.120]  I didn't know this.
[40:54.120 --> 40:55.480]  Only amateur extras can get A.
[40:55.580 --> 40:56.520]  What's an amateur extra?
[40:56.560 --> 40:57.300]  That's the rank.
[40:57.600 --> 40:58.960]  That's the license class you have.
[40:59.400 --> 41:00.360]  What does that mean?
[41:02.540 --> 41:07.580]  Various operators have different license classes depending on the exams that they took.
[41:07.860 --> 41:10.800]  So it goes technician general and then amateur extra.
[41:11.000 --> 41:11.360]  I see.
[41:11.520 --> 41:16.200]  And the latter two require Morse code still and theory exams.
[41:16.320 --> 41:17.220]  You're an amateur what?
[41:17.320 --> 41:17.680]  Generic?
[41:17.840 --> 41:18.100]  Extra.
[41:18.460 --> 41:18.980]  You're an extra?
[41:19.100 --> 41:19.260]  Yes.
[41:19.260 --> 41:21.120]  Oh, so you could get an A if you wanted to.
[41:21.180 --> 41:21.680]  If I wanted to.
[41:21.900 --> 41:22.260]  I see.
[41:22.800 --> 41:23.800]  Are you an extra Bernie?
[41:24.600 --> 41:28.300]  No, I was a general at one time but now I'm just a technician.
[41:28.780 --> 41:29.680]  I let it expire.
[41:29.960 --> 41:31.960]  Oh, so you fall down if you let it expire.
[41:32.260 --> 41:32.640]  That's right.
[41:32.720 --> 41:35.140]  It's a bad idea to let it expire but I can see how it could happen.
[41:35.300 --> 41:35.900]  Walter, what about you?
[41:35.980 --> 41:36.400]  Are you extra?
[41:36.540 --> 41:40.020]  I just got my license at Dayton so I'm a technician.
[41:40.340 --> 41:40.680]  Okay.
[41:41.240 --> 41:41.500]  All right.
[41:41.620 --> 41:42.000]  It's good.
[41:42.080 --> 41:49.180]  A technician class license lets you operate on all amateur frequencies above 30 megahertz which is a whole lot of spectrum.
[41:50.020 --> 42:02.540]  And if you have higher class licenses then you can, which just involves a little more complicated test and a Morse code requirement albeit a slow one, you can operate on short wave frequencies which are below 30 megahertz.
[42:02.740 --> 42:06.660]  So you can talk to people around the world with out any infrastructure.
[42:06.960 --> 42:08.660]  Well, Walter, have you been operating on any frequencies?
[42:09.800 --> 42:12.060]  I haven't been operating much, no.
[42:12.260 --> 42:13.320]  Ah, okay.
[42:13.620 --> 42:14.520]  I've been listening.
[42:14.820 --> 42:15.160]  All right.
[42:15.340 --> 42:16.400]  Well, I can do that.
[42:17.640 --> 42:26.640]  Tying into our previous conversation, the FCC operates a database where you can type these strings of letters and numbers in and learn out all kinds of information about people.
[42:26.640 --> 42:27.020]  Oh, really?
[42:27.320 --> 42:28.940]  Oh, okay.
[42:29.300 --> 42:30.660]  We should edit that part out then.
[42:30.860 --> 42:31.300]  Yeah, we should.
[42:31.520 --> 42:34.920]  You can get our names and I think me and Bernie use P.O.
[42:34.920 --> 42:36.100]  boxes and it's not...
[42:36.100 --> 42:36.960]  You could be anonymous.
[42:37.140 --> 42:37.400]  Uh-huh.
[42:37.560 --> 42:38.460]  Well, fairly anonymous.
[42:39.140 --> 42:41.280]  But this could be another way your privacy could be invaded.
[42:41.700 --> 42:42.260]  Have fun.
[42:42.560 --> 42:42.880]  All right.
[42:43.740 --> 42:46.940]  Then we use Google Earth and we track you down that way.
[42:47.140 --> 42:49.540]  I was moving all over the place with Google Earth the other day.
[42:49.640 --> 42:50.180]  It's a lot of fun.
[42:50.340 --> 42:51.000]  It really is.
[42:51.380 --> 42:52.240]  It's a cool technology.
[42:52.500 --> 42:58.460]  Exploring various countries, just wandering around looking at houses and streets and cars.
[42:59.260 --> 43:01.400]  I think I see my car in there, but I'm not sure.
[43:01.880 --> 43:02.420]  Not sure.
[43:03.060 --> 43:04.320]  Anyway, getting to this story.
[43:04.860 --> 43:11.040]  Back on May 12, 2005, I received a cell phone and use ticket on 23rd Street on the FDR Drive in Manhattan.
[43:11.440 --> 43:13.820]  The hearing was today and the judge found me guilty.
[43:14.120 --> 43:15.260]  This is how it unfolded.
[43:15.300 --> 43:19.320]  I am so angry, I feel violated and I feel every amateur radio operator received a ticket today.
[43:19.940 --> 43:27.020]  The officer swore in and explained that he saw me using a cell phone, pulled me over and explained that I cannot use a cell phone while driving.
[43:27.300 --> 43:30.100]  The judge asked if I wanted to speak.
[43:33.780 --> 43:37.660]  me a ticket for a cell phone in use.
[43:37.800 --> 43:40.440]  I told the officer this was not a cell phone, it's an amateur radio.
[43:40.660 --> 43:47.960]  I explained to the judge that I was a licensed amateur radio operator, handed him my license, also pointed out my license plate was an amateur radio license plate.
[43:48.800 --> 43:56.220]  The judge didn't buy it and basically, I guess that's how it ended.
[43:58.300 --> 44:10.280]  Yeah, he basically said that he described the mobile radio, made it clear that it was a microphone with a cord held in front of my mouth and apparently that was enough for him to think that it was the same thing as a cell phone.
[44:11.420 --> 44:15.620]  So Joe W2JLH says, let's all make noise.
[44:16.000 --> 44:19.060]  I need all the help I can get for this.
[44:19.440 --> 44:20.460]  What do you guys think of that?
[44:20.640 --> 44:31.400]  I think Bernie, you've mentioned this before, where the law states that it has to be connected to a public switch network and this is not at all that.
[44:31.820 --> 44:33.620]  This is amateur radio.
[44:33.820 --> 44:38.340]  It's not any sort of, in any way, connected to the telephone network.
[44:38.420 --> 44:44.120]  But the spirit of the law is to not have people talking on devices when they're driving.
[44:44.320 --> 44:48.740]  No, it's not because you can talk on a handheld device while you drive and you won't be ticketed.
[44:48.760 --> 44:52.600]  A Bluetooth device, a hands-free handset, those are perfectly legal.
[44:52.760 --> 44:54.320]  So that's not the spirit of the law.
[44:54.920 --> 44:56.460]  You're saying police officer.
[44:56.880 --> 44:59.740]  Well, to heck with the exceptions for police officer.
[45:00.140 --> 45:02.660]  They'll laugh at us in court if we bring that up.
[45:02.840 --> 45:04.240]  Well, it's very common.
[45:04.520 --> 45:08.380]  Like you said, police officers do it, taxi cab drivers do it, truckers do it.
[45:08.500 --> 45:09.420]  I mean, it's a very...
[45:09.980 --> 45:13.780]  But you're saying as long as it's plugged into something, that makes it safe?
[45:14.540 --> 45:18.000]  No, I'm not going to argue the safety thing because I think we've gone through this enough.
[45:18.680 --> 45:19.080]  But...
[45:19.080 --> 45:21.160]  Well, you think the law is written that way?
[45:21.360 --> 45:25.520]  I think the law states that it has to be connected to the switch telephone network.
[45:25.640 --> 45:29.420]  And I don't believe that anything else...
[45:29.420 --> 45:31.620]  I don't think it applies to anything else besides cell phones.
[45:31.700 --> 45:35.080]  If I'm correct in the statement and I don't really know the law, I haven't read it myself.
[45:35.120 --> 45:43.360]  But if that's the reason, if that's the reason why somebody gets out of a ticket because it's not connected to the public telephone network, is that really the right reason?
[45:43.600 --> 45:49.060]  If they're holding the same kind of device, they're talking to somebody, and if I'm connected to a phone network, I get a ticket.
[45:49.060 --> 45:51.400]  If you're connected to another ham, you don't get a ticket.
[45:51.520 --> 45:52.000]  Is that fair?
[45:52.100 --> 45:56.380]  Yes, because you can't misinterpret the law like that and look what happens when you do.
[45:56.380 --> 45:56.460]  Well, yeah.
[45:56.660 --> 45:57.240]  Okay, fine.
[45:57.420 --> 46:06.800]  If you want to follow the law by the way it's miswritten, don't you think that's obviously not the spirit of the law in that case?
[46:06.940 --> 46:10.800]  I don't think there's a single person in Albany who knows the term public switch telephone network.
[46:11.100 --> 46:12.120]  Yeah, that's probably true.
[46:13.820 --> 46:14.360]  That's a shame.
[46:14.860 --> 46:15.100]  Why?
[46:15.560 --> 46:16.760]  That takes more phone calls.
[46:16.900 --> 46:18.200]  212-209-2900.
[46:18.480 --> 46:28.580]  If somebody could go out to the lobby and see if there's any personal computer people around, if not, we're going to assume that we're going to go past the hour and then we have more material to play around with.
[46:28.800 --> 46:31.760]  Our phone number now is 212-209-2900.
[46:32.260 --> 46:36.820]  This is Off the Hook, the show that was not supposed to be on tonight because of the Supreme Court hearings.
[46:37.700 --> 46:40.580]  And we are on, in fact, we might even be on for longer.
[46:40.880 --> 46:42.080]  Taking your phone calls.
[46:42.380 --> 46:43.060]  Anybody in there?
[46:43.340 --> 46:43.440]  No.
[46:43.540 --> 46:44.020]  Nobody's in there.
[46:44.080 --> 46:44.240]  Okay.
[46:44.440 --> 46:50.880]  So we're going to assume they're going to continue on and we'll carry on for the personal computer people as if they were here.
[46:51.740 --> 46:54.900]  212-209-2900, country code 1.
[46:55.300 --> 46:56.100]  And good evening.
[46:56.220 --> 46:56.560]  You're on the air.
[46:57.880 --> 46:58.540]  Go ahead.
[46:58.620 --> 46:58.920]  Speak up.
[46:59.280 --> 47:08.540]  I got an email about telemarketers and their calling cell phones and charging against minutes call, the do not call list.
[47:08.700 --> 47:09.620]  Could you comment on that?
[47:10.420 --> 47:18.820]  Well, that's been a problem for a long, long time where telemarketers call phone numbers without regard to whether or not their cell phones.
[47:19.620 --> 47:26.320]  And you have to pay for that because in this country, you pay for incoming cell calls as well as outgoing cell calls.
[47:27.060 --> 47:28.720]  The email he got is a scam.
[47:29.620 --> 47:29.900]  Oh?
[47:30.140 --> 47:31.020]  I'm not familiar with the email.
[47:31.160 --> 47:31.820]  Tell me about the email.
[47:32.240 --> 47:38.780]  Someone in my office got the same email last week and he printed it out and gave it to everybody in the office saying, oh, beware of this.
[47:38.900 --> 47:40.140]  And I'm like, listen, this is a scam.
[47:40.220 --> 47:40.960]  I looked it up on Snopes.
[47:43.360 --> 47:44.840]  Which is always right, but...
[47:44.840 --> 47:45.220]  Always.
[47:45.560 --> 47:45.720]  Sure.
[47:46.360 --> 47:48.500]  But anyway, this is a known hoax.
[47:49.180 --> 47:53.640]  It was saying that there's a...
[47:53.640 --> 47:55.560]  Why don't you read the email you got there, caller?
[47:56.080 --> 47:57.600]  Well, the caller has left us.
[47:57.800 --> 47:58.580]  Oh, already.
[47:59.360 --> 48:01.700]  They come in, they ask a question, and they go out again.
[48:02.540 --> 48:05.160]  Well, it was sort of a clever scam.
[48:05.320 --> 48:23.780]  It was saying that there was a new law that was passed that was going to create a national telephone directory of cellular phone numbers that telemarketers would have access to unless you called this toll-free number and got yourself on this do not call list.
[48:24.640 --> 48:27.900]  And it's not the do not call list that we were talking about a year or two ago.
[48:28.080 --> 48:33.360]  This is purportedly for cell phones only, do not call them.
[48:33.500 --> 48:44.860]  But it was a private company you'd be calling, and then they would get your caller ID information or your A&I when you call this toll-free number, and then they would have your cell phone number.
[48:45.000 --> 48:51.980]  So basically, if you followed the instructions of this email, you were exposing your cell phone number to some private company who would likely then sell your number to a telemarketer.
[48:52.320 --> 48:55.260]  So the best thing to do with spam is take no action at all.
[48:56.660 --> 49:04.300]  Yeah, but there is a concern when you get telemarketing calls to your cell phone, which is one of the other issues of this whole thing, right?
[49:04.880 --> 49:05.760]  I don't get them.
[49:06.060 --> 49:10.760]  I mean, it made people afraid, and it pushed a hot button for people.
[49:10.840 --> 49:12.600]  Well, I have never gotten one because it is a crime.
[49:13.140 --> 49:23.860]  It is against FCC regulations to have, I think, Federal Trade Commission regulations to market via cell phones because the receiver of the call has to pay, and that wouldn't be good.
[49:24.260 --> 49:29.300]  I guess it's also illegal to call an 800 number and try to sell them something.
[49:30.420 --> 49:31.180]  Good question.
[49:31.380 --> 49:32.480]  I've never gotten any either.
[49:32.540 --> 49:36.040]  My primary cell phone number is fairly public, and there's no...
[49:36.040 --> 49:38.100]  Well, it's fairly easy.
[49:38.680 --> 49:39.800]  You're what, 201?
[49:40.160 --> 49:40.320]  Yes.
[49:40.480 --> 49:48.800]  Okay, for the people in 917 at least, because most numbers in 917 tend to be cell phones or wireless devices or beepers or something like that, so they know to avoid that.
[49:48.880 --> 49:54.760]  But I've heard stories from people in other parts of the country that have gotten a fair number of them, and it is pretty annoying.
[49:55.060 --> 50:00.140]  If a person, a telemarker doesn't know that they're calling a cell phone, how would they know not to?
[50:00.400 --> 50:01.280]  That's the thing.
[50:01.400 --> 50:02.540]  Slick Zero, you had a point?
[50:02.740 --> 50:03.120]  Yes.
[50:03.120 --> 50:18.440]  Recently, actually, I had to call this place because they kept spamming me with SMS messages, and I do not have a plan where I pay for it monthly basis, so I was paying like two cents or whatever for every message they sent me, so I called them up, left a nice voicemail a couple times,
[50:18.560 --> 50:23.320]  and they took me off the list, but even still, it was quite annoying for the whole six cents it charged me.
[50:23.680 --> 50:24.220]  Well, yeah.
[50:24.220 --> 50:25.020]  Something to watch out for.
[50:25.640 --> 50:37.240]  People get very annoyed when they get charged for something that they shouldn't be paying, that they, you know, somebody trying to sell them something and they have to pay for that, they get completely outraged.
[50:37.440 --> 50:39.940]  An interesting technical question comes to my mind.
[50:40.020 --> 50:43.720]  What happens if you enter your cell phone number into the do not call registry?
[50:43.980 --> 50:44.260]  Anything?
[50:47.200 --> 50:47.960]  Apparently not.
[50:48.080 --> 50:49.900]  No, I don't think so.
[50:49.960 --> 50:51.740]  That dead silence means nothing happens.
[50:52.140 --> 50:54.260]  Well, I mean, how would you know?
[50:54.400 --> 50:54.840]  How would you know?
[50:54.900 --> 50:55.340]  Good point.
[50:55.540 --> 50:55.640]  Yeah.
[50:56.380 --> 50:57.540]  One thing, though...
[50:57.540 --> 50:58.020]  Yeah, go ahead, Bernie.
[50:58.340 --> 50:58.540]  I'm sorry.
[50:58.620 --> 51:09.160]  Did we ever establish if you can migrate a phone number between wireless and wireline with the number of portability?
[51:10.140 --> 51:11.120]  Allegedly, you can.
[51:11.280 --> 51:11.800]  I've never...
[51:11.800 --> 51:23.920]  There have actually been articles in the newspaper, I believe, the Daily News about six months ago, in which someone was having great difficulty doing that and was essentially stonewalled at every turn.
[51:23.920 --> 51:25.880]  I don't know the upshot beyond that, though.
[51:26.060 --> 51:28.140]  I would like to have a 212 cell phone number.
[51:28.420 --> 51:29.520]  Has anyone done that?
[51:30.680 --> 51:31.540]  That's my dream.
[51:32.220 --> 51:33.760]  You have such simple dreams.
[51:33.760 --> 51:35.160]  That's my only dream left, actually.
[51:35.480 --> 51:36.660]  Yeah, it's come down to that.
[51:37.340 --> 51:43.700]  But my main bone of contention here is when are we going to get to the point where people...
[51:43.700 --> 51:44.860]  Overseas, it works differently.
[51:45.000 --> 51:47.400]  Overseas, you pay extra to call a cell phone, all right?
[51:47.700 --> 51:52.220]  Here, we pay for incoming cell phone calls and everybody pays the same amount to call a cell phone.
[51:52.540 --> 51:57.060]  When is it going to reach the stage where there isn't this premium on wireless communication?
[51:57.960 --> 52:00.400]  And why is that premium there in the first place?
[52:01.300 --> 52:02.860]  People seem happy paying for it.
[52:03.040 --> 52:03.780]  I mean, it's...
[52:03.780 --> 52:05.840]  People seem happy with all kinds of things that are wrong.
[52:06.380 --> 52:09.160]  But, you know, wire communication...
[52:09.160 --> 52:12.800]  You just as easily have a premium for using a wire because it's finite.
[52:13.100 --> 52:15.940]  You can only fit a certain number of conversations in a wire and then it's full.
[52:16.240 --> 52:18.340]  But wireless, it's everywhere.
[52:18.340 --> 52:19.060]  It's the same...
[52:19.060 --> 52:19.660]  I know, I know.
[52:20.440 --> 52:23.120]  There's limits to the bandwidth or to the spectrum.
[52:24.060 --> 52:27.380]  But is it really worthy of charging extra these days?
[52:27.640 --> 52:28.880]  These days, probably not.
[52:29.600 --> 52:32.440]  And a lot of people actually only have a wireless device.
[52:32.660 --> 52:34.260]  I don't even have a landline.
[52:34.480 --> 52:38.540]  And that's why they pay more, you know, because a lot of people have this.
[52:38.820 --> 52:39.860]  Everybody's paying the premium.
[52:39.860 --> 52:42.140]  It's never going to go away unless people start...
[52:42.140 --> 52:46.080]  If I didn't have to pay as much for the cell phone, I would probably get a landline.
[52:47.160 --> 52:49.100]  It's much more convenient to have one.
[52:49.360 --> 52:54.440]  But the cell phone costs enough where I'm not into paying anymore for phone service.
[52:54.620 --> 52:59.380]  It's also annoying when you call somebody in a different country and you don't know if you're calling a cell phone or a regular phone.
[52:59.680 --> 53:04.020]  And you wind up paying a lot more than you think you're going to pay because you're calling a mobile phone.
[53:04.260 --> 53:08.300]  It doesn't make much sense to me, especially when so many people are walking around with these things these days.
[53:08.460 --> 53:13.280]  I just think the technology has reached a stage where the prices can be leveled out.
[53:13.480 --> 53:14.680]  You know what doesn't know?
[53:15.360 --> 53:16.280]  What doesn't know?
[53:16.380 --> 53:18.880]  Doesn't know if you're calling a cell phone or not overseas.
[53:19.640 --> 53:27.560]  At least some I'm not going to promise all pay phones seem to charge the same amount for any destination in a given country.
[53:27.700 --> 53:29.360]  We had an interesting discussion about this earlier.
[53:30.440 --> 53:37.720]  The yellow handset phones that you see all around the place now, the yellow handset pay phones, they're actually using a company I believe it's called Phone One or something.
[53:38.180 --> 53:39.320]  It's very confusing.
[53:39.600 --> 53:41.000]  It's not that confusing actually.
[53:41.620 --> 53:45.460]  I think it's because AT&T no longer carries coin traffic.
[53:45.880 --> 53:47.020]  Is that true everywhere now?
[53:47.140 --> 53:48.540]  They don't carry coin traffic anyplace?
[53:49.020 --> 53:50.140]  I'm pretty sure it is.
[53:50.440 --> 53:59.040]  But if you see a pay phone with a yellow receiver, that means that they use this company called Phone One and you can call overseas for much lower prices than we've been accustomed to.
[53:59.100 --> 54:00.420]  It used to cost something like what?
[54:00.820 --> 54:02.720]  Three, four dollars for the first minute?
[54:03.360 --> 54:06.780]  And putting all those quarters in or dimes or whatever, it took forever.
[54:07.500 --> 54:14.320]  Now it's something like a quarter for a minute or a dollar for ten minutes or something a lot more reasonable like that.
[54:16.520 --> 54:19.460]  But now, how certain are you that this little trick works?
[54:19.820 --> 54:22.620]  I'm not certain at all but I...
[54:23.440 --> 54:29.200]  Because you said on our email list that the pay phones were now affordable to call overseas, relatively speaking.
[54:29.520 --> 54:32.320]  So I went and tried a few phones in my neighborhood.
[54:32.320 --> 54:45.640]  I didn't actually want to talk to anyone overseas so I just dialed and listened to what the rate was and then didn't pay it and hung up and the few phones I tried were either a quarter for the first minute or three minutes for a dollar.
[54:47.080 --> 54:55.380]  And then I was more curious about this so I started dialing numbers that I knew to be mobile numbers overseas and was quoted the same rates.
[54:55.780 --> 54:58.480]  So it's kind of interesting.
[54:58.700 --> 55:01.340]  And you're absolutely certain those are mobile phones that you were dialing?
[55:01.460 --> 55:01.840]  Oh yes.
[55:02.840 --> 55:03.080]  Okay.
[55:03.200 --> 55:04.800]  Can I ask what country this was?
[55:05.000 --> 55:06.620]  This was Dutch numbers.
[55:06.780 --> 55:07.020]  Okay.
[55:07.020 --> 55:14.480]  Which is much, much, much cheaper than what I found calling the U.S., which we mentioned on one of the previous shows.
[55:14.660 --> 55:20.060]  But the issue also came up of phone cards that use VOIP to make phone calls internationally.
[55:20.440 --> 55:22.540]  And I definitely wasn't using that.
[55:22.540 --> 55:30.920]  I was being charged about a euro a minute or so, both in Amsterdam and Berlin, just using standard public telephone cards.
[55:31.220 --> 55:34.940]  But Bernie, do you have any more details about the cards that use VOIP?
[55:36.080 --> 55:42.760]  Well, they're available almost all phone stores and convenience stores, anywhere that sells stuff, practically.
[55:42.760 --> 55:44.540]  You can buy these cards in Europe.
[55:44.800 --> 55:46.480]  And they're usually country specific.
[55:46.740 --> 55:50.840]  Like, you can only call from one destination country to a specific...
[55:50.840 --> 55:57.080]  I mean, you can only call from one origination country to a specific destination country, like one in Germany.
[55:58.200 --> 56:01.240]  It only works calls from Germany to the U.S., for instance.
[56:01.480 --> 56:02.340]  But it's pretty cheap.
[56:02.340 --> 56:07.520]  It's a few cents a minute, and you can use them at, like, your hotel phone or something.
[56:07.660 --> 56:11.240]  And it's typically a toll-free call in that country.
[56:11.500 --> 56:14.820]  And it just works reasonably well, and it's cheap.
[56:15.060 --> 56:15.500]  All right.
[56:15.560 --> 56:22.460]  I actually had a little bit of a hard time finding phone cards, and it was probably more because of the language barrier than anything else.
[56:22.460 --> 56:27.140]  But I found all, like, tons and tons of prepaid SIM cards for GSM phones.
[56:27.140 --> 56:42.340]  But it was much harder to track down phone cards for public telephones, and I actually ended up having to go to the post office in Berlin to get one, and they asked me, one of the post offices in Berlin asked me, you know, international or domestic, and I said international,
[56:42.440 --> 56:44.580]  and it was still a euro a minute or so.
[56:45.140 --> 56:54.500]  See, now, when I bought one of these cards with the chips on them a few years ago in Amsterdam, I was charged quite reasonable rates to call the states.
[56:54.720 --> 56:58.480]  It was cheaper than a lot of other services that I had access to.
[56:58.860 --> 57:01.140]  It was fine.
[57:01.520 --> 57:09.520]  So, maybe the Germans are more of a rip-off than the Dutch, or maybe I just got lucky, although I certainly didn't try to do anything.
[57:09.840 --> 57:14.440]  I could have been using crappy phone cards, because I think, what is the phone company there, KPN or something?
[57:15.020 --> 57:16.040]  That's one of the phone companies.
[57:16.140 --> 57:20.460]  Yeah, I was using their chip cards as well, and same deal.
[57:20.460 --> 57:22.040]  So, it was around a euro a minute or so.
[57:22.180 --> 57:22.720]  But anyway, okay.
[57:23.640 --> 57:29.820]  Well, we had a lot of feedback to last week's show, where we played with a different technology for the first time.
[57:30.740 --> 57:34.280]  And we're going to go into that, and we're going to try and play with it a little bit more, too.
[57:34.420 --> 57:40.360]  I understand that the personal computer people are not here, so that means we are going to be on for another hour, which is good news for us.
[57:40.940 --> 57:46.260]  And, of course, we'll announce on the hour that the personal computer people are not in this week, and we'll be in next week, hopefully.
[57:47.280 --> 57:54.320]  Here's a letter that somebody sent us concerning the program having to do with Skype, the program that we used last week.
[57:54.620 --> 57:58.920]  I enjoy listening to Off the Hook and Off the Wall every week, and even subscribe to 2600.
[57:59.140 --> 57:59.360]  Wow.
[58:00.520 --> 58:03.900]  In your last radio show, you talked about VOIP and Skype.
[58:04.120 --> 58:04.940]  Can I call it VoIP?
[58:05.000 --> 58:05.840]  Is that acceptable?
[58:06.460 --> 58:07.380]  I accept it.
[58:07.460 --> 58:07.720]  All right.
[58:08.340 --> 58:09.640]  I have some additional information.
[58:09.760 --> 58:14.160]  You can change the number that appears if someone calls you with Skype by buying your own VoIP number.
[58:14.620 --> 58:16.380]  I believe this costs...
[58:16.380 --> 58:18.840]  I don't know where this person is writing from.
[58:18.880 --> 58:19.620]  He's writing from the Netherlands.
[58:19.840 --> 58:23.620]  So, okay, these question marks probably mean euros or euro cents.
[58:23.760 --> 58:27.000]  This costs 30 euro cents per number, I believe.
[58:27.220 --> 58:28.400]  No, it's more than that, I think.
[58:28.540 --> 58:29.580]  Maybe 30 euros per number?
[58:29.720 --> 58:29.920]  Maybe.
[58:30.140 --> 58:30.360]  Okay.
[58:30.940 --> 58:36.680]  Instead of a number like 00s and 123456, it'll show plus 31 and then the regular phone number.
[58:37.280 --> 58:42.560]  First, two digits being the country code, which will be plus one for the US, and the rest is like a regular landline number.
[58:43.220 --> 58:46.460]  Once you have a number like this, other people can call you on your VoIP number.
[58:47.000 --> 58:50.940]  There's also a lesser-known program which offers more or less the same as Skype.
[58:50.940 --> 58:52.400]  It's called VoIP Buster.
[58:52.680 --> 58:56.020]  Go to www.voipbuster.com.
[58:56.240 --> 58:57.860]  The quality is the same as Skype.
[58:57.860 --> 59:01.880]  You can get your own VoIP number for free, and you can make free calls to landlines.
[59:02.480 --> 59:05.780]  That's what I do like best about this program, the free calls.
[59:07.520 --> 59:19.640]  And if you download from www.voipstunt.com, V-O-I-P-S-T-U-N-T dot com, you can even call from the US to European countries, vice versa, for free.
[59:20.380 --> 59:28.240]  Last week, I bought a new SpeedTouch 716 modem, which includes two RJ11 ports for VoIP phone calls.
[59:28.440 --> 59:32.820]  My ADSL provider gave me two free VoIP numbers, each with its own answering machine.
[59:33.440 --> 59:38.980]  Currently, I can only make calls between other users from the same ADSL provider, and other people can call me on my VoIP number.
[59:39.460 --> 59:42.880]  In the coming weeks, it will also be possible to make outbound calls through this modem.
[59:43.340 --> 59:49.240]  The thing is that by using Skype, VoIP Buster, and others, you end up having multiple VoIP numbers, all on which you can make and receive calls.
[59:49.560 --> 59:59.200]  And SpeedTouch also announced a modem like the 716, which includes two SCART ports in order to receive TV signals through the ADSL modem slash router.
[01:00:00.260 --> 01:00:01.120]  Keep up the good work.
[01:00:01.240 --> 01:00:01.440]  Thanks.
[01:00:01.440 --> 01:00:03.000]  Keep on visiting my country.
[01:00:03.220 --> 01:00:04.320]  Signed, Ed from the Netherlands.
[01:00:04.880 --> 01:00:05.620]  Thanks very much, Ed.
[01:00:05.720 --> 01:00:09.700]  Boy, I can just imagine people out there listening to all this who just want to make a phone call.
[01:00:09.840 --> 01:00:11.920]  It sounds really complicated, but it really isn't, is it?
[01:00:12.100 --> 01:00:13.720]  Skype is actually very easy to use.
[01:00:13.840 --> 01:00:20.640]  And those other two services, I just took a quick glance at, and they just seem a little bit shadier, so I didn't really bother signing up or anything.
[01:00:20.760 --> 01:00:21.320]  But they could be great.
[01:00:21.840 --> 01:00:22.640]  Shady, you think, huh?
[01:00:24.120 --> 01:00:24.820]  I like Skype.
[01:00:24.820 --> 01:00:29.520]  There's a multitude of services, all of which offer pretty similar features.
[01:00:30.560 --> 01:00:38.760]  Some are based on more open standards than others, but from the end user's perspective, they're all pretty similar.
[01:00:38.760 --> 01:00:39.940]  Mm-hmm.
[01:00:40.800 --> 01:00:41.280]  Uh...
[00:00.000 --> 00:02.040]  I don't bother signing up or anything, but they could be great.
[00:02.380 --> 00:03.340]  Shady, you think, huh?
[00:04.660 --> 00:05.520]  I like Skype.
[00:05.940 --> 00:10.240]  There's a multitude of services, all of which offer pretty similar features.
[00:11.460 --> 00:19.460]  Some are based on more open standards than others, but from the end user's perspective, they're all pretty similar.
[00:21.980 --> 00:27.800]  Again, we've been getting lots of feedback about the whole Skype thing, because it is the first time we actually use this.
[00:27.800 --> 00:30.760]  It's probably long overdue, but that's what we're here for, the experiment.
[00:30.760 --> 00:31.700]  First time we use it on the air.
[00:31.780 --> 00:33.300]  First time we use it on the air, that's what I'm talking about.
[00:34.200 --> 00:35.080]  That's another thing.
[00:35.100 --> 00:39.100]  People don't seem to believe us when we say that we know Skype existed before.
[00:41.320 --> 00:42.280]  I'll get to those letters.
[00:45.320 --> 00:51.820]  Basically, this person writes in, how confident are you that Skype is not open to wiretapping?
[00:52.320 --> 00:59.040]  You seem to imply, while answering to the military guy who wanted to inquire about wiretaps, that if he calls through Skype, he is safe.
[00:59.040 --> 01:14.400]  I have never been in the military in the U.S., but it does seem to be extremely bad advice to me, because A, Skype could provide trackback information at government request, so the telephone provider could give a phone line ID, the Skype team could translate phone to IP of the user,
[01:14.540 --> 01:16.060]  leasing this phone number at that time.
[01:16.400 --> 01:19.760]  ISP provider would be able to translate the IP to a person, leasing the IP.
[01:21.140 --> 01:27.640]  B, if ordered to even ask if he is wiretapped, he would need to provide personal information, so Skype or no Skype, he would need to identify himself.
[01:27.840 --> 01:32.160]  And C, military is usually not overly open-minded and democratic.
[01:32.160 --> 01:37.440]  The guy could put his career in jeopardy just by making this call as a worthwhile experience, unquote.
[01:39.500 --> 01:40.060]  I don't know.
[01:40.120 --> 01:40.760]  What do you guys think about it?
[01:40.780 --> 01:42.040]  This is from Michael, by the way.
[01:42.460 --> 01:44.340]  Any thoughts on Skype security?
[01:44.740 --> 01:47.440]  I honestly don't know what sort of encryption they use.
[01:48.260 --> 02:02.000]  Their claim is that it's encrypted from the point where it leaves your computer to the point where it gets to the public telephone network, unless you make a Skype-to-Skype call, which their claim is then that it's encrypted the whole way.
[02:03.260 --> 02:05.300]  But I don't know what algorithms they're using.
[02:05.320 --> 02:06.440]  I don't know how they're implemented.
[02:06.800 --> 02:10.400]  And those are two very big factors in determining the security.
[02:12.620 --> 02:16.620]  Without sort of an open protocol description, it's very hard to know what they're doing.
[02:16.880 --> 02:33.680]  And even if they publish more explicit claims, it would be very hard to verify those claims, unless, as I say, they publish their protocol and allow other clients to actually implement these algorithms and see if what they say they do is what they actually do.
[02:34.180 --> 02:46.100]  So I wouldn't rely on Skype for particularly sensitive communications if you expect to be wiretapped on your phone, I think it's reasonable to expect that you can be wiretapped on Skype.
[02:47.680 --> 02:48.160]  Okay.
[02:48.280 --> 02:52.500]  Well, actually, I asked our friend Rob over in Amsterdam about this as well.
[02:52.740 --> 02:56.460]  He said that people are very right to express their concern.
[02:57.280 --> 02:58.940]  Skype is owned by eBay.
[02:59.180 --> 02:59.800]  Do you guys know this?
[03:00.040 --> 03:00.860]  Skype's owned by eBay.
[03:01.320 --> 03:03.040]  They were pretty recently bought out.
[03:04.900 --> 03:07.920]  And eBay is well known for bending over backwards for law enforcement.
[03:08.680 --> 03:14.440]  Skype has not published anything about their crypto except feel-good pieces of text that say very little about what's really in there.
[03:16.680 --> 03:28.480]  And they say that Skype's legal disclaimers used to talk about lawful interception until people pointed out that it was supposed to be encrypted, and then that went away and is no longer there.
[03:29.700 --> 03:34.740]  He says he would not recommend using Skype if the object is to trust it more than regular calls at this point.
[03:36.200 --> 03:39.980]  So, yeah, I mean, it's a fun technology to play with.
[03:40.920 --> 03:48.780]  But if you're looking for something that's overly secure, it's probably not the complete answer for you.
[03:49.220 --> 03:51.680]  I did an interesting test with Skype today.
[03:52.340 --> 03:53.540]  Okay, tell us about the test.
[03:53.540 --> 04:00.920]  I installed it on a portable computer that has an Internet connection through Sprint.
[04:01.160 --> 04:07.720]  Sprint offers what's called an EVDO technology connection.
[04:07.720 --> 04:19.340]  It basically gives you a wireless Internet connection of several megabits, about two or three megabits per second, anywhere the Sprint PCS network exists, which is most of the country.
[04:20.840 --> 04:28.040]  And after a couple of false starts, I got the application installed and was able to have a conversation with someone.
[04:28.040 --> 04:31.060]  And it sounded far better than my Sprint PCS phone.
[04:32.340 --> 04:32.700]  Really?
[04:33.140 --> 04:33.440]  Yeah.
[04:33.660 --> 04:34.760]  Okay, so you actually got it to work.
[04:35.080 --> 04:35.880]  Yeah, I got it to work.
[04:36.100 --> 04:36.460]  Okay.
[04:36.720 --> 04:39.180]  Because when I talked to you last, you were having some trouble with it.
[04:39.200 --> 04:41.340]  We have it hooked up here at the station, so...
[04:42.240 --> 04:43.900]  We don't have it hooked up very well.
[04:43.900 --> 04:47.980]  No, we don't have it hooked up very well, but we will be able to at least test out the audio.
[04:47.980 --> 04:49.020]  The audio output, right.
[04:49.080 --> 04:50.860]  If you call, you won't be able to hear us.
[04:51.180 --> 04:52.940]  Yeah, you won't be able to hear us, but we'll be able to hear you.
[04:53.060 --> 04:53.680]  And that way...
[04:53.680 --> 04:55.980]  See, the show we did last week was not done...
[04:57.060 --> 04:58.040]  How do we say it?
[04:58.120 --> 05:03.120]  Skype to Skype, where you're actually using the Internet on both ends.
[05:03.320 --> 05:03.500]  Yeah.
[05:03.600 --> 05:07.680]  We were using Internet on one end to call into the phone line here.
[05:08.300 --> 05:09.400]  Skype in or Skype out?
[05:09.900 --> 05:10.480]  Skype out.
[05:10.600 --> 05:11.280]  Skype out, yeah.
[05:12.620 --> 05:14.500]  Skype out to phone line in.
[05:14.720 --> 05:16.260]  We should clarify that.
[05:16.260 --> 05:30.520]  Skype out is a service where you're able to call a phone on the public telephone network through Skype, and Skype in actually assigns you a number, and you have to pay more for that, but that's what we're referring to.
[05:30.720 --> 05:30.840]  Yeah.
[05:31.480 --> 05:33.320]  So, now, what we can do...
[05:33.320 --> 05:34.380]  Bernie, are you set up now?
[05:34.820 --> 05:35.120]  Yeah.
[05:35.340 --> 05:35.980]  You are set up.
[05:36.080 --> 05:37.780]  Okay, so what we can do...
[05:37.780 --> 05:43.060]  Actually, if somebody will write down Bernie's user ID, that way I can...
[05:43.060 --> 05:44.620]  Somehow get it to us.
[05:44.840 --> 05:45.520]  Well, you don't have it?
[05:45.620 --> 05:45.980]  I don't have it.
[05:46.180 --> 05:46.900]  I can say it over the air.
[05:46.900 --> 05:49.120]  Well, if you say it over the air, then everybody in the world is going to call you.
[05:49.260 --> 05:49.600]  Exactly.
[05:49.800 --> 05:52.420]  So, can you SMS it to us?
[05:53.320 --> 05:56.460]  No, unfortunately, I'm using Sprint, which doesn't work very well with SMS.
[05:57.080 --> 06:00.500]  Bernie, Bernie, your user ID, is it all numbers, or is it alphanumerical?
[06:00.500 --> 06:01.640]  No, this is going to take forever.
[06:02.080 --> 06:02.820]  No, it won't.
[06:02.980 --> 06:03.720]  This is going to take...
[06:03.720 --> 06:04.640]  Here, I'll do pantomimes.
[06:04.760 --> 06:05.820]  You can get my pantomimes.
[06:07.360 --> 06:09.340]  There's got to be a way that we can do this.
[06:10.360 --> 06:15.520]  Well, you could turn down my audio over the air and write it down as I say it to you privately.
[06:16.400 --> 06:17.400]  Mike, you want to take care of that?
[06:17.620 --> 06:18.240]  This is very calm.
[06:18.240 --> 06:20.140]  You get along with this phone a lot better than the rest of us do.
[06:20.140 --> 06:22.080]  What I'm going to do is I'm going to call...
[06:22.080 --> 06:22.840]  You've got to pick up...
[06:22.840 --> 06:23.720]  Here's what I'm going to do.
[06:23.720 --> 06:24.940]  I'm going to call Bernie S.
[06:25.040 --> 06:29.100]  from my cell phone, and then he'll have call waiting, and we'll have a conversation that's not on the board.
[06:29.100 --> 06:30.480]  Okay, well, go out in the hallway then.
[06:30.620 --> 06:32.480]  I'm going to turn Bernie down so there's no confusion.
[06:33.160 --> 06:35.420]  We're pretty isolated in this studio.
[06:35.700 --> 06:36.500]  We are pretty isolated.
[06:36.620 --> 06:37.700]  In fact, there's nobody else in the station.
[06:37.920 --> 06:40.920]  Everybody has left because they're afraid of the Supreme Court hearings.
[06:43.480 --> 06:44.180]  Rightfully so.
[06:44.380 --> 06:45.260]  Yeah, rightfully so.
[06:45.320 --> 06:45.580]  Absolutely.
[06:46.260 --> 06:51.440]  But here's another letter that we got, and this is kind of typical of some of them.
[06:51.780 --> 06:56.560]  We talked about this, and I guess I made the mistake of phrasing something in a particular way.
[06:56.560 --> 07:04.500]  You know, I said later on that we knew it was not new technology, but you say it once.
[07:05.300 --> 07:09.000]  When I said it was new technology, I meant it was new for us on this show.
[07:09.200 --> 07:12.360]  Not new in that we didn't know about it, knew that it was the first time we were using it.
[07:13.280 --> 07:20.680]  But this person writes in, I was stunned to hear Emmanuel excitedly describe a typical VoIP app Skype as new technology.
[07:21.140 --> 07:22.740]  It's been around for a few years.
[07:22.740 --> 07:28.240]  I'm not even some sort of technophile, but using Skype and also iChat built into every Mac is fairly standard.
[07:28.680 --> 07:30.920]  I'm just stunned you guys aren't up on this.
[07:31.200 --> 07:38.340]  Well, apparently you were so stunned you didn't listen to the next 10 minutes of the radio show where we went into a little bit more detail as to what exactly was going on.
[07:38.340 --> 07:39.840]  But man, you got to be careful what you say.
[07:40.200 --> 07:41.740]  It's kind of sad that we have to explain this.
[07:42.320 --> 07:44.340]  Skype is good, but if iChat is nicer...
[07:44.340 --> 07:45.700]  I'm sorry, there's no if in there.
[07:46.080 --> 07:51.760]  Skype is good, but iChat is nicer and includes clear multi-party video conferencing all free.
[07:51.760 --> 07:57.340]  You can go to www.apple.com slash macOSX slash features slash iChat.
[07:58.120 --> 07:58.940]  Love the show.
[07:59.100 --> 08:02.560]  Signed, SZ from Den Haag in the Netherlands and also Detroit.
[08:02.560 --> 08:03.200]  I'm not quite sure.
[08:03.740 --> 08:06.420]  Well, you can be in both, but you can be.
[08:07.240 --> 08:10.100]  I'm not sure it's taking so long in the hallway there, but Mike is...
[08:10.100 --> 08:10.800]  Mike's back.
[08:11.000 --> 08:12.760]  Okay, and you have the username here.
[08:13.880 --> 08:14.320]  Okay.
[08:15.220 --> 08:16.020]  All right.
[08:16.440 --> 08:17.820]  Now, Bernie, are you back on the phone?
[08:18.300 --> 08:18.740]  Yes.
[08:18.740 --> 08:19.320]  All right.
[08:20.300 --> 08:22.200]  This is basically what you sound like now.
[08:22.380 --> 08:23.620]  Say a few words for the folks.
[08:24.760 --> 08:25.680]  On the cell phone?
[08:25.960 --> 08:26.860]  Yeah, on the cell phone.
[08:26.920 --> 08:28.180]  So we get used to what you sound like.
[08:28.560 --> 08:29.780]  This is Bernie S.
[08:29.920 --> 08:31.900]  on a Sprint PCS phone from Philadelphia.
[08:33.860 --> 08:40.800]  And it's communicating allegedly at a rate of about 14 kilobits per second through Sprint vocoders.
[08:41.160 --> 08:43.720]  So we're going to compare this Fidelity to Skype.
[08:43.980 --> 08:47.160]  I don't know what kind of vocoders you're using, but it sounds a lot better to me.
[08:48.520 --> 08:53.100]  Okay, and what I'm doing now is I'm typing in your username that you've just given Mike.
[08:53.600 --> 08:55.840]  And what I'm going to do also is bring the computer up.
[08:55.920 --> 08:56.700]  Two, eight, seven...
[08:56.700 --> 08:58.600]  I don't know why this...
[08:58.600 --> 08:59.740]  Oh, because this is still playing.
[08:59.840 --> 09:00.920]  Hold on, I've got to turn that off.
[09:01.280 --> 09:03.380]  By the way, I'm not sure I know how to answer...
[09:03.380 --> 09:04.180]  Will I just hear this?
[09:04.300 --> 09:07.720]  I've never accepted a call from Skype before, so will it ring?
[09:07.720 --> 09:10.680]  It will ring as if it's a phone, and you will just pick it up.
[09:10.720 --> 09:10.900]  Okay.
[09:11.500 --> 09:12.700]  Okay, I think they're gone.
[09:12.700 --> 09:17.920]  Then I'll put my finger over the Sprint microphone so that it doesn't have two audio pads.
[09:18.080 --> 09:19.440]  We can just turn you down also.
[09:19.680 --> 09:20.240]  That would work.
[09:20.400 --> 09:27.360]  Now, keep in mind, we're not going to be able to have a real conversation with you because there is no way that our audio is getting out to you.
[09:27.500 --> 09:28.720]  Your audio is coming to us.
[09:29.280 --> 09:29.640]  Okay.
[09:29.780 --> 09:32.560]  I'll listen to you on this line, on the Sprint line.
[09:32.560 --> 09:41.920]  What I'd like you to do, Bernie, is just basically talk to us on that phone line, understanding that we can't talk back except on this.
[09:42.100 --> 09:42.940]  Actually, not the phone line.
[09:43.040 --> 09:44.040]  Talk to us on your computer.
[09:45.380 --> 09:46.140]  As soon as...
[09:46.140 --> 09:46.440]  Are you there?
[09:46.640 --> 09:48.540]  I'm talking on the computer now, but I haven't answered.
[09:49.040 --> 09:50.380]  Don't talk until we call you.
[09:50.800 --> 09:51.160]  Okay.
[09:51.340 --> 09:52.080]  You're all set up, right?
[09:52.080 --> 09:55.040]  I have a headset on, and I have the phone to my ear as well.
[09:55.140 --> 09:55.220]  All right.
[09:55.220 --> 09:56.000]  That's what's going on.
[09:56.100 --> 09:58.260]  So this is what I wanted to demonstrate last week.
[09:58.260 --> 10:05.060]  And if we had done internet to internet, I would have sounded as good as Bernie's about to sound now from Amsterdam.
[10:05.380 --> 10:09.380]  So I'm going to hit the little green button here, and let's see what we hear next.
[10:24.040 --> 10:27.020]  Well, it says connecting, and nothing's happening.
[10:27.840 --> 10:29.060]  Bernie, are you still on the phone?
[10:29.400 --> 10:32.540]  I'm still on the phone, and I'm not hearing any ringing at my end, though.
[10:32.700 --> 10:33.400]  Oh, it says connecting.
[10:33.640 --> 10:36.920]  Are you able to tell that I exist as a user who's online right now?
[10:36.940 --> 10:39.520]  Well, it has a picture of somebody with no face.
[10:40.180 --> 10:40.860]  Yes, I didn't...
[10:40.860 --> 10:42.220]  Now it just says reason unknown.
[10:42.460 --> 10:44.320]  It doesn't even say what it's saying reason unknown for.
[10:44.940 --> 10:45.280]  Interesting.
[10:45.560 --> 10:46.980]  Yeah, that is kind of interesting.
[10:47.220 --> 10:47.420]  All right.
[10:48.200 --> 10:49.540]  Redbird's over here troubleshooting.
[10:50.580 --> 10:51.920]  No one said it was going to be easy.
[10:53.020 --> 10:54.280]  Oh, that's what I typed.
[10:56.520 --> 10:56.860]  Okay.
[10:57.960 --> 11:00.520]  It's all lowercase, and obviously no spaces.
[11:00.720 --> 11:02.280]  I have to add them as a contact before it works?
[11:02.400 --> 11:02.780]  No, you shouldn't have to.
[11:02.780 --> 11:03.340]  I shouldn't have to.
[11:03.420 --> 11:04.180]  Okay, well, let's try it again.
[11:10.870 --> 11:11.850]  Okay, it says connecting.
[11:16.880 --> 11:18.680]  Now, Bernie, is anything happening on your end?
[11:19.200 --> 11:19.600]  Nothing.
[11:19.820 --> 11:20.380]  Nothing at all.
[11:21.420 --> 11:22.400]  Can you hear me on the phone?
[11:22.480 --> 11:23.160]  I hear you on the phone.
[11:23.160 --> 11:23.420]  Fine.
[11:23.620 --> 11:23.700]  Okay.
[11:23.860 --> 11:25.200]  I have a question.
[11:25.400 --> 11:34.840]  Does the Skype client work kind of like an IM, it's a messaging client, where you can actually see who is connected and online and available to receive calls?
[11:35.160 --> 11:36.420]  Can you see if he's online?
[11:36.420 --> 11:39.280]  Are you able to tell by looking if he's online?
[11:39.280 --> 11:40.520]  Yeah, he has to confirm that where...
[11:40.520 --> 11:41.340]  Does Skype work that way?
[11:41.640 --> 11:44.900]  Are you actually looking at the software?
[11:46.180 --> 11:47.080]  I am, yeah.
[11:47.420 --> 11:48.920]  It's not doing anything at all?
[11:49.440 --> 11:50.560]  No, it's no...
[11:50.560 --> 11:52.560]  I'm just looking at this as...
[11:53.460 --> 11:54.420]  Let me see here.
[11:54.580 --> 11:56.620]  This is the future of technology, folks.
[11:56.680 --> 11:58.540]  Well, no, this is a development of technology.
[12:01.060 --> 12:03.860]  Basically, you know, we're working out the kinks.
[12:03.860 --> 12:06.700]  But when we do, it's going to be really impressive.
[12:06.880 --> 12:07.300]  It really is.
[12:07.380 --> 12:10.600]  Now, Bernie, the program is definitely open.
[12:12.140 --> 12:12.860]  And you're...
[12:13.380 --> 12:14.960]  Have you tried making a test call yourself?
[12:15.500 --> 12:16.600]  Yes, I made the test call.
[12:16.680 --> 12:17.360]  That's what I tested.
[12:17.600 --> 12:17.820]  Okay.
[12:18.200 --> 12:18.980]  Why don't you try making...
[12:18.980 --> 12:21.640]  I spoke, and I heard myself back, and it sounded very good.
[12:21.680 --> 12:22.920]  Okay, can you make a test call now?
[12:22.920 --> 12:24.500]  Let's just verify you're connected at this moment.
[12:24.840 --> 12:25.200]  Okay.
[12:25.360 --> 12:26.480]  I'm going to go to contact.
[12:26.820 --> 12:27.140]  Okay.
[12:27.320 --> 12:29.760]  We won't hear this, obviously, but we just want to make sure.
[12:29.840 --> 12:32.280]  I'm going to click on type test call, or Skype test call.
[12:32.280 --> 12:37.520]  I'm going to click on that, and then I'm hearing the dialing sound.
[12:38.520 --> 12:45.040]  And while Bernie's making this quote-unquote phone call, let me just point out for people tuning in now, the Personal Computer Show is not on this week.
[12:45.120 --> 12:46.080]  They will be back next week.
[12:46.780 --> 12:53.060]  They were preempted because of the Supreme Court hearings, which then didn't run as long as we expected them to.
[12:53.220 --> 13:00.640]  So we're here off the hook for an extra hour, and maybe beyond if the people at 9 o'clock don't show up as well.
[13:01.820 --> 13:03.220]  Bernie, any luck?
[13:03.660 --> 13:06.380]  It says connecting, but it doesn't seem to be connecting.
[13:07.380 --> 13:09.040]  The problem seems to be on your end.
[13:10.640 --> 13:13.620]  I know I have a good internet connection because I can open up browser sessions.
[13:14.040 --> 13:17.580]  Now, you're actually using this Sprint connection of yours, right?
[13:17.900 --> 13:18.280]  That's right.
[13:18.460 --> 13:19.180]  It's called...
[13:20.000 --> 13:24.860]  I don't know what Sprint calls it, but it's called a Sprint PCS connection card.
[13:27.020 --> 13:30.220]  It's basically a PCMCIA card plugged into the laptop.
[13:30.420 --> 13:31.840]  I think they're called PC cards now.
[13:32.180 --> 13:40.480]  It provides a 1900 megahertz connection that's pretty high bandwidth, like 2 or 3 megabits per second, to Sprint's network.
[13:40.940 --> 13:43.880]  And I've used it for all kinds of other applications, just not for Skype.
[13:44.040 --> 13:48.460]  It would be interesting if Sprint was blocking these types of packets, but that would surprise me.
[13:48.560 --> 13:51.300]  Well, if they were blocking it, you wouldn't be able to make that test call before, right?
[13:51.540 --> 13:51.940]  Exactly.
[13:51.940 --> 13:59.800]  And I was able to, and I made several test calls, and I heard myself back, and I sounded very clear compared to Sprint's regular voice service.
[13:59.940 --> 14:00.100]  All right.
[14:00.120 --> 14:02.440]  There's no way you can use another type of internet connection right now.
[14:04.320 --> 14:05.240]  No, not readily.
[14:05.440 --> 14:05.640]  Okay.
[14:06.760 --> 14:07.660]  You're not connecting?
[14:08.740 --> 14:09.140]  Nope.
[14:09.560 --> 14:09.820]  And...
[14:09.820 --> 14:12.280]  Well, it actually says no proxies found this time.
[14:12.340 --> 14:19.900]  It was working before, so that's probably why you can't get a hold of me, because it's just saying you can't make a successful test call right now.
[14:20.120 --> 14:21.280]  Who is saying that?
[14:21.280 --> 14:22.180]  Is it Skype is saying that?
[14:22.200 --> 14:23.360]  The Skype software says that.
[14:23.500 --> 14:24.520]  It said no proxies found.
[14:24.980 --> 14:27.040]  Redbird, have you ever heard of that error message from Skype?
[14:27.300 --> 14:29.540]  I'm not a Skype expert, but no.
[14:29.860 --> 14:30.180]  Okay.
[14:30.220 --> 14:32.360]  Well, you're the Skype expert in this room, so...
[14:32.920 --> 14:33.440]  That's sad.
[14:33.600 --> 14:33.880]  All right.
[14:34.060 --> 14:34.240]  It worked right away.
[14:34.460 --> 14:36.660]  When I tested it about an hour ago, it worked right away.
[14:36.820 --> 14:37.100]  Okay.
[14:38.580 --> 14:44.800]  Let's try it again in a few minutes, and if it doesn't work, then we'll have to get somebody else involved to make this test call.
[14:44.900 --> 14:50.620]  But as God is my witness, we will make a test call in the time we have left, just to demonstrate this.
[14:51.100 --> 14:53.040]  But keep clicking it every now and then.
[14:53.080 --> 14:54.720]  Let me know if you make any progress.
[14:55.200 --> 14:56.300]  It still says trying to connect.
[14:56.580 --> 15:00.480]  Right now, there are 2,936,010 users online.
[15:00.580 --> 15:06.840]  So if we have to, we're just going to call one of them at random and demonstrate it in that way.
[15:07.140 --> 15:08.100]  Are you looking for something, Mike?
[15:08.700 --> 15:09.060]  Yeah.
[15:09.100 --> 15:10.040]  You took all my papers.
[15:10.440 --> 15:10.740]  Those are...
[15:10.740 --> 15:14.200]  Well, these can't be your papers, because these are ones that I printed out.
[15:14.200 --> 15:21.700]  No, those are your papers, but I handed you a paper with Bernie S.'s name on it, and there were all these papers underneath it, which were all my papers.
[15:21.880 --> 15:22.700]  Well, okay.
[15:22.800 --> 15:24.080]  Yeah, these ones here...
[15:24.860 --> 15:25.300]  All right.
[15:25.360 --> 15:26.580]  I think these are all yours.
[15:26.720 --> 15:27.200]  Here, take them.
[15:27.580 --> 15:27.920]  Thank you.
[15:29.080 --> 15:31.180]  Our phone number is 212-209-2900.
[15:31.320 --> 15:31.640]  Off the hook.
[15:31.940 --> 15:35.140]  On for an additional hour this Wednesday evening.
[15:35.800 --> 15:41.420]  We have all sorts of other listener mail as well, including quite a bit on Gmail.
[15:41.540 --> 15:46.940]  We haven't talked about that in a while, but people still are writing in about the whole Gmail controversy.
[15:46.940 --> 15:48.200]  It's not really a controversy.
[15:48.200 --> 15:49.800]  It's just, you know, I made a few comments.
[15:49.800 --> 15:50.420]  That's all.
[15:50.860 --> 15:51.760]  I made a few comments.
[15:51.900 --> 15:55.980]  I dared to question the question, the Google matrix or whatever it is.
[15:56.140 --> 16:05.040]  If there were any doubt remaining that this whole Google is not evil mantra was actually true, which is a terrible sentence.
[16:05.040 --> 16:06.260]  Why don't you start that whole sentence again?
[16:06.980 --> 16:09.800]  There need no longer be doubt that Google is evil.
[16:10.160 --> 16:11.660]  So Google is evil, you're saying?
[16:11.740 --> 16:11.860]  Yes.
[16:11.980 --> 16:12.220]  All right.
[16:12.340 --> 16:13.040]  How is Google evil?
[16:13.160 --> 16:24.860]  They are promising to release this new Google video functionality where you can pay for video, and this technology will include digital rights management, which is evil.
[16:25.880 --> 16:27.220]  So there you have it.
[16:27.260 --> 16:29.800]  What is digital rights management, and why is it evil?
[16:29.960 --> 16:35.300]  Digital rights management is a misnomer because it is not actually controlling your rights.
[16:35.480 --> 16:36.840]  It is controlling you.
[16:36.960 --> 16:38.500]  It is preventing you from doing things.
[16:38.800 --> 16:50.820]  It is sort of a digital non-rights management where the creator of a piece of media can try and control, try and prevent you from copying it.
[16:50.860 --> 16:56.820]  Of course, this is bound not to work because if you can hear it, you can always copy it that way.
[16:57.200 --> 17:12.380]  But this technology, which is featured in iTunes and all these online music services, Google is now bringing to video, the video world, I guess you'll be able to pay to watch whatever it is that you'll be paying for.
[17:12.800 --> 17:16.620]  They have a whole list of partners, of which only three anyone's ever heard of.
[17:17.380 --> 17:31.500]  But, and then once you download this file, you won't be able to give it to your friend or play it on your television or whatever you might want to do with the video file, unless you are given permission to do so by the holders of the so-called digital rights.
[17:32.800 --> 17:35.530]  Well, that certainly seems to be a condemnation.
[17:35.960 --> 17:41.820]  I figured because they announced that they were going to start showing ads on their pages, that made them evil.
[17:42.300 --> 17:43.880]  More ads than they already do, maybe.
[17:44.360 --> 17:45.420]  Because they do show ads.
[17:45.480 --> 17:46.260]  They're text ads, though, right?
[17:46.360 --> 17:47.900]  They're partnering with AOL.
[17:48.160 --> 17:48.380]  Oh.
[17:48.380 --> 17:48.800]  Yeah.
[17:48.960 --> 17:49.460]  That's scary.
[17:49.980 --> 17:51.140]  It's really scary.
[17:52.200 --> 17:53.060]  I like Google.
[17:53.060 --> 17:53.580]  I really do.
[17:53.740 --> 17:54.940]  I like the things they come up with.
[17:55.180 --> 18:01.600]  But I do question some things, and I question people's willingness to buy into other things without question.
[18:01.800 --> 18:06.500]  Before I continue with this, though, Bernie, I did just try you again, and it reported that you were not online.
[18:07.300 --> 18:12.260]  I am online, but the Skype client apparently is not online.
[18:13.220 --> 18:17.640]  I've been trying to make these test calls, and they're consistently failing now.
[18:17.640 --> 18:19.900]  Like an hour and a half ago, it was working just great.
[18:20.620 --> 18:22.240]  And I know I have a good net connection.
[18:22.240 --> 18:23.760]  Can you reconnect to the Skype network?
[18:25.430 --> 18:27.340]  I've disconnected and reconnected many times.
[18:27.840 --> 18:32.960]  Why don't you turn your computer off and reboot it and hold down the various keys?
[18:33.690 --> 18:36.420]  I'm just doing the whole help desk thing here.
[18:36.420 --> 18:36.840]  I'm just hitting the F5 key.
[18:37.000 --> 18:38.140]  Can I just keep hitting the F5 key?
[18:38.790 --> 18:40.400]  If that works for you, hit that as well.
[18:40.540 --> 18:42.500]  But we should keep trying.
[18:42.640 --> 18:44.290]  We should keep trying for the benefit of the listeners.
[18:44.290 --> 18:51.660]  Okay, continuing with Gmail issues here, my big gripe was the auto logout option.
[18:52.000 --> 19:00.260]  Now, people have written in, very indignantly, too, I might point out, saying that, of course, they have an auto logout function.
[19:00.260 --> 19:06.660]  If you close the browser, then it'll disconnect.
[19:06.920 --> 19:10.790]  And I don't want to be nasty, but that's not auto logging out.
[19:10.790 --> 19:12.860]  That's you clicking and closing things.
[19:13.300 --> 19:19.030]  What I meant by auto logout is if you don't do something for a certain amount of time, it does it for you.
[19:19.100 --> 19:19.740]  It logs you out.
[19:19.880 --> 19:22.030]  That is the only definition of auto logout I know.
[19:22.530 --> 19:33.120]  And people seem to be bending over backwards, making it easy for Google to get away with not having this by saying, well, you have to check this box and close the browser and turn your computer off.
[19:33.160 --> 19:34.740]  And then it'll disconnect.
[19:35.030 --> 19:35.860]  No, that's not what I mean.
[19:36.030 --> 19:36.660]  That's not what I mean.
[19:36.660 --> 19:44.660]  Again, the issue here is that if you leave Gmail logged in, and let's say there's a fire that breaks out in your office, okay, it does happen sometimes.
[19:44.660 --> 19:47.000]  You don't have to be stupid and walk away and forget about it.
[19:47.040 --> 19:49.980]  I know a lot of people say, well, if you're dumb enough to walk away, you deserve whatever happens to you.
[19:50.060 --> 19:50.530]  Okay, fine.
[19:50.900 --> 19:56.580]  But there could be a legitimate reason why you're suddenly called away from your terminal and you might forget that you left it logged in.
[19:56.900 --> 20:04.160]  My point is that you have no way of knowing that it's logged in because it doesn't tell you that you have another session logged in if you log in again.
[20:05.770 --> 20:07.340]  And it will never log you out.
[20:07.440 --> 20:08.100]  Actually, that's not true.
[20:08.180 --> 20:09.500]  It will log you out after a couple of weeks.
[20:09.820 --> 20:11.360]  It's quite an obnoxious feature, though.
[20:11.500 --> 20:11.660]  Yeah.
[20:13.100 --> 20:13.980]  Why would you want this?
[20:14.360 --> 20:15.290]  What's an obnoxious feature?
[20:15.500 --> 20:18.480]  Having your session automatically time out.
[20:18.660 --> 20:21.290]  Well, first of all, it can be user definable.
[20:21.420 --> 20:23.100]  You can either have it or not have it.
[20:23.180 --> 20:29.580]  I think not having it, that's obnoxious because they assume that you want to have that on your desktop at all times.
[20:29.580 --> 20:31.980]  I think that's the idea is for it to replace your desktop.
[20:33.140 --> 20:40.540]  What's the advantage of not telling you that, by the way, you have another session logged in and somebody is sending mail as you and you have no way of knowing this?
[20:40.600 --> 20:41.790]  What's the advantage to that?
[20:43.200 --> 20:44.680]  It's the same with any other service.
[20:44.720 --> 20:45.140]  No, it's not.
[20:45.320 --> 20:46.400]  There is no other service that does that.
[20:46.480 --> 20:48.790]  Every other service has an auto logout feature.
[20:49.200 --> 20:50.060]  Yahoo does.
[20:50.300 --> 20:51.120]  Hotmail does.
[20:51.340 --> 20:53.580]  It's a very simple thing to have.
[20:54.060 --> 20:56.960]  And I question why they don't have this.
[20:59.580 --> 21:03.060]  You see, you see, this is what I contend with.
[21:03.500 --> 21:06.900]  People standing up for Google and not seeing the logic of...
[21:06.900 --> 21:18.040]  But I mean, if you're using a terminal with a standard email client, you know, that's installed and configured with your mail settings and you leave that open, you know, somebody walks up to your computer, they can access everything that way as well.
[21:18.240 --> 21:21.420]  Oh, because that's bad and Google's bad as well.
[21:21.660 --> 21:23.460]  Therefore, Google isn't bad because they're both bad?
[21:23.700 --> 21:24.300]  That makes no sense.
[21:24.300 --> 21:25.420]  This is not bad.
[21:25.620 --> 21:26.080]  This is my...
[21:26.080 --> 21:26.960]  What do you mean it's not bad?
[21:27.060 --> 21:31.740]  Like, shell accounts that time out on lack of activity have existed forever.
[21:32.140 --> 21:32.380]  Mm-hmm.
[21:32.760 --> 21:34.300]  But that's not even what I'm talking about.
[21:34.360 --> 21:37.840]  A shell account you can look at and say, hey, I'm logged in at Joe's house.
[21:38.240 --> 21:39.580]  I better cancel that session.
[21:39.840 --> 21:42.300]  You have no way of canceling that session.
[21:42.320 --> 21:43.120]  You don't.
[21:43.300 --> 21:52.700]  If you realize that all of a sudden your best friend has become your worst enemy and you left something logged in at their house, you cannot log out, all right?
[21:52.720 --> 21:54.320]  And that person can send mail as you.
[21:54.440 --> 21:55.660]  They can read all of your mail.
[21:55.700 --> 21:56.900]  And that's a very bad thing.
[21:57.020 --> 22:00.140]  And I think there should at least be a feature that allows you to deal with that.
[22:00.340 --> 22:01.640]  Yeah, you can change your password.
[22:01.740 --> 22:03.440]  Some people suggested change your password.
[22:03.580 --> 22:12.140]  And after a couple of weeks, the cookie will expire and the person won't be able to log back in, even if you did have the remember me on this computer thing checked.
[22:12.820 --> 22:13.780]  That's not good enough for me.
[22:13.820 --> 22:14.120]  I'm sorry.
[22:14.820 --> 22:16.040]  You know, I know these things.
[22:16.040 --> 22:19.160]  I'm not saying that I'm going to leave my computer logged in in people's houses.
[22:19.240 --> 22:19.720]  I never do.
[22:20.200 --> 22:21.760]  But a lot of people do.
[22:22.580 --> 22:22.820]  All right.
[22:24.320 --> 22:24.880]  Let's see.
[22:24.920 --> 22:27.560]  We have one other piece of mail here.
[22:29.740 --> 22:31.300]  Actually, it's pretty much just the same thing.
[22:31.480 --> 22:33.440]  Let's get back to Skype.
[22:33.600 --> 22:36.160]  Bernie, have you done anything to your computer?
[22:36.680 --> 22:38.460]  I have restarted it.
[22:38.680 --> 22:43.080]  And I reconnected to the Internet, which I verified is a good Internet connection.
[22:43.080 --> 22:50.060]  And I am just launching the client now.
[22:50.240 --> 22:50.380]  Okay.
[22:50.640 --> 22:51.660]  Let us know when it's launched.
[22:55.420 --> 22:57.300]  This is the sound of technology working.
[22:57.540 --> 22:58.440]  Isn't it wonderful?
[23:00.640 --> 23:02.580]  It sounds an awful lot like muttering.
[23:05.640 --> 23:06.520]  It's trying.
[23:07.740 --> 23:09.140]  Keep talking about something.
[23:10.020 --> 23:15.100]  Well, it's way off the half hour, but we might as well say that this is WBAI New York.
[23:15.360 --> 23:17.340]  99.5 on your FM dial.
[23:17.520 --> 23:22.580]  You're listening to Off the Hook because we're here after the Alito hearings and no one else is.
[23:24.080 --> 23:24.520]  Yes.
[23:26.340 --> 23:28.700]  Our phone number is 212-209-2900.
[23:28.700 --> 23:30.600]  We will be taking some more phone calls in just a moment.
[23:30.720 --> 23:38.040]  In fact, we might even be looking for a Skype user to test this out with since it doesn't seem to be working in-house.
[23:38.040 --> 23:40.640]  Bernie, any luck launching the...
[23:40.640 --> 23:45.200]  No, I'm beginning to question Sprint PCS's reliability of all things.
[23:45.460 --> 23:46.980]  Well, you've done that many times.
[23:47.940 --> 23:49.340]  With this type of...
[23:49.340 --> 23:50.660]  These types of packets.
[23:50.800 --> 23:51.000]  I don't know.
[23:51.060 --> 23:51.740]  Packets are packets.
[23:51.920 --> 23:59.500]  But this service does not seem to be working reliably over Sprint PCS's EVDO wireless network.
[23:59.840 --> 24:00.300]  Okay.
[24:00.380 --> 24:02.240]  Well, here's what we're going to ask people to do then.
[24:02.240 --> 24:03.540]  Again, if you give us...
[24:03.540 --> 24:07.860]  If you're a Skype user and you have a Skype ID, give us a call, 212-209-2900.
[24:08.200 --> 24:19.800]  What we'll do is we'll take your Skype ID off air somehow and then keep you on the phone and call you on the computer, I guess.
[24:20.040 --> 24:21.160]  Is that what we're going to try to do?
[24:21.300 --> 24:22.280]  This is very complicated.
[24:22.280 --> 24:23.760]  Well, it shouldn't be this complicated.
[24:23.760 --> 24:26.220]  If Bernie's connection worked, we could do it like that, you know?
[24:26.320 --> 24:27.200]  It would be simple.
[24:27.380 --> 24:28.040]  Very simple.
[24:29.000 --> 24:29.860]  But no, no.
[24:29.980 --> 24:31.100]  Nothing's ever simple around here.
[24:32.000 --> 24:36.860]  So, again, if you have other things to talk about, too, please give us a call as well.
[24:37.500 --> 24:38.440]  Do you hear about...
[24:39.160 --> 24:41.900]  I think this is one of yours, Mike, because I read this yesterday on my other show.
[24:42.660 --> 24:43.480]  That's one of yours, right?
[24:43.560 --> 24:43.680]  Yes.
[24:43.680 --> 24:44.320]  About the U.S.
[24:44.460 --> 24:45.000]  opening mail?
[24:45.760 --> 24:46.080]  Allegedly.
[24:46.920 --> 24:47.760]  No, it's not allegedly.
[24:47.760 --> 24:50.260]  It's pretty much proven because they said they were.
[24:50.880 --> 24:52.500]  Well, you know, they might be lying.
[24:52.720 --> 24:52.900]  Uh-huh.
[24:53.420 --> 24:54.460]  Tell us the gist of it.
[24:54.460 --> 24:58.740]  Apparently, if you receive a letter from overseas and the U.S.
[24:59.120 --> 25:06.740]  government thinks that terrorism might be contained in the letter or something similarly vague, then they could open it and read it.
[25:07.640 --> 25:14.980]  Of course, Customs regularly inspects packages to make sure they don't contain dutiable goods or drugs or anything like that.
[25:15.120 --> 25:18.880]  But now they're opening letters, which is a little bit strange.
[25:18.880 --> 25:23.460]  I'm not sure why, you know, there's no, there's generally nothing dutiable.
[25:23.660 --> 25:26.140]  There's nothing Customs wants to stop in a letter.
[25:26.360 --> 25:29.400]  Well, they want to see what people are saying, just like the NSA wants to hear what people are saying.
[25:30.410 --> 25:31.580]  And, you know, it's silly.
[25:31.780 --> 25:35.560]  This all started from some old guy who was writing to an old friend of his in the Philippines.
[25:35.900 --> 25:36.000]  Some old guy, yeah.
[25:36.220 --> 25:37.360]  Well, I think he's an old guy, right?
[25:37.380 --> 25:39.320]  Yeah, Grant Goodman is 81 years old.
[25:39.340 --> 25:40.380]  All right, he's an old guy.
[25:40.380 --> 25:42.240]  Well, I meant that with all due respect.
[25:42.520 --> 25:44.200]  He's a retired history professor.
[25:44.300 --> 25:45.780]  That sounds better than some old guy.
[25:45.780 --> 25:52.780]  Well, some old retired history professor, but he's, the point is he's talking to some probably other old guy in the Philippines, right?
[25:52.880 --> 25:56.020]  They're, they're corresponding, maybe playing chess by mail or something like that.
[25:56.940 --> 26:03.780]  And because I guess it came from the Philippines, they feel they have the right to open this and, and read what's being said between the two of them.
[26:04.720 --> 26:05.800]  That's the gist of it, yeah.
[26:05.900 --> 26:07.240]  That is the country we live in today.
[26:08.000 --> 26:12.940]  Well, there is a Marxist insurgency as well as a Muslim insurgency in the Southern Philippines.
[26:13.180 --> 26:16.720]  Well, there should be an American insurgency because this kind of stuff should not be tolerated.
[26:16.980 --> 26:17.060]  Well.
[26:17.950 --> 26:18.460]  All right.
[26:18.740 --> 26:21.220]  Bernie, we're giving up on you, right?
[26:21.980 --> 26:26.180]  I'm giving up on, on Sprint's ability to make Skype work.
[26:26.300 --> 26:26.580]  All right.
[26:26.660 --> 26:31.240]  So again, if, if you're a listener and you have a Skype account, call us and let us know that.
[26:31.380 --> 26:33.620]  If you have anything else to say too, give us a call.
[26:33.740 --> 26:35.520]  212-209-2900.
[26:35.950 --> 26:36.820]  Let's take a phone call.
[26:36.920 --> 26:37.320]  Good evening.
[26:37.480 --> 26:37.980]  You're on the air.
[26:39.760 --> 26:40.540]  Go ahead, please.
[26:41.500 --> 26:41.800]  Hi.
[26:42.340 --> 26:43.460]  Is this VAI?
[26:43.460 --> 26:46.280]  Yes, and you're live on the air, or seven seconds delayed anyway.
[26:47.180 --> 26:47.400]  Okay.
[26:47.700 --> 26:51.400]  I'm having problems with a PPS, or Sprint AirCard.
[26:52.380 --> 26:52.940]  Okay.
[26:53.620 --> 26:56.580]  With receiving, I'm sorry, it's a Verizon AirCard, receiving emails.
[26:56.880 --> 27:04.720]  So I can send emails from my Outlook or Axe account, but I can't receive, send emails.
[27:05.140 --> 27:05.620]  Make sense?
[27:06.840 --> 27:07.400]  Okay.
[27:07.600 --> 27:10.500]  Do you by chance think that you're calling the personal computer show?
[27:10.500 --> 27:11.980]  Because this is off the hook.
[27:12.120 --> 27:13.340]  We're expanding an hour this week.
[27:14.180 --> 27:14.460]  Okay.
[27:14.680 --> 27:16.760]  Oh, I thought you guys were doing computer questions.
[27:16.880 --> 27:17.640]  Well, we can.
[27:17.860 --> 27:20.680]  I just want to make sure that people are aware that this is in the personal computer show.
[27:21.020 --> 27:24.060]  Unfortunately, they're not in this week, so we took the extra time.
[27:24.720 --> 27:26.320]  But we can try to answer that question.
[27:26.540 --> 27:28.820]  Does anybody have any theories as to why that might be?
[27:31.150 --> 27:37.200]  Are you able to use your mail client when you're connected to a wired internet connection?
[27:37.760 --> 27:38.660]  Yes, I am.
[27:39.000 --> 27:39.480]  Okay.
[27:40.100 --> 27:41.080]  Well, that's interesting.
[27:42.240 --> 27:43.660]  What is the exact problem again?
[27:44.620 --> 27:50.900]  Yeah, the problem was when using Verizon AirCard, I can receive emails, but I cannot send emails.
[27:50.900 --> 27:54.860]  Okay, they're blocking SMTP, I'm assuming.
[27:54.860 --> 27:58.080]  So you have to use their outgoing server and not your ISP's outgoing server.
[27:58.220 --> 27:59.280]  Why are they doing that?
[27:59.420 --> 28:02.740]  Because it's common practice to prevent spam and whatnot.
[28:02.740 --> 28:11.080]  So you basically have to find out the outgoing server for Verizon as opposed to whatever ISP you were using before and change the settings.
[28:11.800 --> 28:17.260]  I can't give you any more pointers other than that because I'm not familiar with the service you're using.
[28:17.300 --> 28:23.580]  Well, it sounds like if you go on Google or something and search for that information, you might be able to find out that way.
[28:23.660 --> 28:23.920]  Sure.
[28:24.100 --> 28:28.300]  It probably provided to you in the documentation that you got from Verizon.
[28:29.840 --> 28:30.340]  Okay.
[28:30.600 --> 28:32.140]  Yeah, it's a fairly common problem.
[28:32.740 --> 28:38.540]  So just search for SMTP, Verizon AirCard, and you might find some stuff.
[28:39.320 --> 28:39.460]  Okay.
[28:39.880 --> 28:46.840]  Do you guys know anything about the Microsoft, or the ACT program, the database management, contact management software?
[28:47.040 --> 28:50.360]  A lot of blank stares around here, so probably not.
[28:50.820 --> 28:52.960]  We don't have contacts on this show, so.
[28:54.600 --> 28:56.160]  So no contacts on the other end?
[28:56.240 --> 28:56.820]  Is that what you're telling me?
[28:57.440 --> 28:57.920]  No.
[28:58.400 --> 28:59.960]  All right, thanks for your call.
[29:00.400 --> 29:06.360]  Well, and yeah, well, you know, this isn't a personal computer show, so we probably won't be able to answer a lot of those kinds of questions.
[29:06.420 --> 29:08.340]  And most of us aren't big Microsoft users.
[29:08.500 --> 29:09.180]  Yeah, that's true, too.
[29:10.590 --> 29:11.760]  212-209-2900.
[29:11.860 --> 29:15.120]  Still looking for a Skype user, so give us a call if you are one.
[29:15.200 --> 29:15.440]  Good evening.
[29:15.500 --> 29:15.860]  You're on the air.
[29:16.840 --> 29:18.460]  Yeah, I just had to kill the phone.
[29:18.800 --> 29:22.620]  Listen, I just picked up a Nokia track phone.
[29:23.140 --> 29:29.500]  And this is a GSM phone, but it says in the literature that you cannot use it outside of the country.
[29:29.500 --> 29:31.680]  And I'm wondering whether this is just bull or not.
[29:32.380 --> 29:36.980]  It's because it's a dual-band phone, only able to be used with the U.S.
[29:37.080 --> 29:37.460]  frequencies.
[29:37.620 --> 29:37.960]  Dual-band?
[29:38.020 --> 29:38.840]  Don't you mean single-band?
[29:39.040 --> 29:39.380]  No.
[29:40.040 --> 29:40.640]  The U.S.
[29:40.660 --> 29:41.160]  has two bands.
[29:41.260 --> 29:42.660]  But does this phone have two bands?
[29:42.860 --> 29:43.300]  No.
[29:43.520 --> 29:53.260]  It's a Nokia 1100B, and inside it's identified when you check if it's an 1100A, it's one band.
[29:53.260 --> 29:55.360]  If it's an 1100B, it's another band.
[29:55.360 --> 29:57.420]  So it's apparently only one band.
[29:57.580 --> 30:00.560]  Okay, so if it's a single-band phone, then it's a U.S.
[30:00.740 --> 30:00.980]  band.
[30:01.160 --> 30:03.840]  It would not be any of the European bands.
[30:03.960 --> 30:06.500]  Yeah, you're probably using 1900MHz.
[30:06.500 --> 30:13.180]  You should also be using 900 and 1800 to use it overseas, or even just one of those to use it overseas.
[30:13.280 --> 30:18.260]  So in other words, there is GSM for this country, and then there's GSM for the rest of the world.
[30:18.400 --> 30:19.440]  Well, the GSM is the same.
[30:19.560 --> 30:20.580]  It's the frequencies that are different.
[30:20.740 --> 30:25.140]  Unfortunately, we always seem to have to use different frequencies for things as a result.
[30:25.140 --> 30:31.400]  But many phones these days, in fact, I would dare to say most phones these days, can be used in both regions.
[30:31.960 --> 30:37.220]  Most phones that you buy here will be tri-band, and they'll have two U.S.
[30:38.000 --> 30:40.100]  bands and one international band.
[30:40.280 --> 30:40.860]  Or quad-band.
[30:40.980 --> 30:41.800]  Or quad-band, yeah.
[30:41.800 --> 30:43.260]  Is that available?
[30:43.520 --> 30:46.760]  I mean, like, for example, let's see, I paid $19 for this at the pass mark.
[30:46.760 --> 30:49.040]  I basically bought it for a 911 phone, you know.
[30:49.100 --> 30:49.260]  Uh-huh.
[30:49.620 --> 31:00.300]  But is that information, like, for example, if you go to a place, you know, like a cell phone store, will that information be, you know, on the box of the stuff that they're trying to sell you?
[31:00.380 --> 31:01.160]  Absolutely, definitely.
[31:01.260 --> 31:04.860]  And the salespeople will know it's a very common thing that you want to use it overseas.
[31:04.860 --> 31:08.940]  So how much does it generally cost these days to get them a phone like that?
[31:09.600 --> 31:11.760]  Depends totally on what kind of a phone it is.
[31:11.840 --> 31:17.080]  And if you're getting service with it as well, sometimes the phones don't cost anything if you get a good service plan.
[31:18.520 --> 31:22.560]  Or they could cost hundreds of dollars if you're just buying it without any kind of service plan.
[31:22.920 --> 31:23.100]  Uh-huh.
[31:23.760 --> 31:25.870]  The caller said this is a prepaid...
[31:27.240 --> 31:29.560]  Yeah, it's a prepaid phone service.
[31:29.560 --> 31:38.140]  So they have an interesting setup because you can basically buy a year of service, but then you do have to pay for the minutes.
[31:38.140 --> 31:43.570]  But they have a variety of ways where you can end up paying a fairly low rate for the things.
[31:44.300 --> 31:46.060]  I mean, it's a pretty good deal, actually.
[31:46.560 --> 31:51.460]  Unfortunately, they do not have roaming agreements with any of the international GSM carriers.
[31:51.660 --> 31:54.500]  They only have agreements with the U.S.
[31:54.700 --> 31:55.060]  carriers.
[31:55.060 --> 32:11.860]  And even if the phone were electronically and physically capable of communicating on the European GSM frequencies, like 1,800 megahertz, for instance, the track phone company doesn't have agreements with the carriers over there.
[32:12.000 --> 32:14.460]  So it's a business reason why it's not working.
[32:14.600 --> 32:20.060]  They don't want you to use this phone overseas because they can't make money from you that way.
[32:20.220 --> 32:20.540]  Uh-huh.
[32:20.920 --> 32:23.780]  In addition to the fact that the phone is probably carrier-locked.
[32:24.190 --> 32:25.100]  Oh, what does that mean?
[32:25.280 --> 32:28.480]  It means that you wouldn't be able to use a SIM of another carrier anyway.
[32:28.820 --> 32:30.380]  I believe that's the case also.
[32:30.440 --> 32:33.220]  But, I mean, for $19, you know, I'm not really complaining, you know.
[32:33.300 --> 32:34.800]  No, like you said, it's a 911 phone.
[32:34.940 --> 32:36.200]  It's something you just want to have on you.
[32:36.480 --> 32:37.800]  That's a good use for that.
[32:37.900 --> 32:47.840]  But, yeah, if you want to use the full capacity of capabilities, rather, of GSM, get something that can be used in different countries, get something that's unlocked so you can use different carriers.
[32:49.210 --> 32:50.900]  It just is a really good thing to have.
[32:50.900 --> 32:59.720]  So, now, for example, if I wanted to get a phone that I could use in Mexico also, and that's basically what I was thinking about.
[32:59.980 --> 33:06.620]  Apparently, you can use this thing in some parts of Canada and in Puerto Rico and, you know, some of the, like, maybe the U.S.
[33:06.660 --> 33:08.380]  Virgin Islands and a few other places.
[33:09.120 --> 33:19.540]  But, for example, if I wanted to pick up a phone and I wanted to go down to Mexico for a while and use the same phone, I'm just curious because this is the first cell phone.
[33:19.540 --> 33:20.360]  I'm 60 years old.
[33:20.440 --> 33:24.580]  This is the first cell phone I've ever owned because, quite frankly, I don't want to own a cell phone.
[33:24.780 --> 33:29.760]  But, you know, approximately what kind of price range could I expect?
[33:29.760 --> 33:35.020]  You know, what's the lowest price point I could get away with to get something that I could use in Mexico?
[33:36.140 --> 33:39.460]  Well, I'm not certain does Mexico have GSM servers.
[33:39.580 --> 33:42.340]  I think they do, but certainly not in the small towns.
[33:42.340 --> 33:45.360]  Only in big cities they would have something like that.
[33:46.440 --> 33:51.520]  I've got to admit, I'm ignorant as to whether or not they actually use GSM there in the first place.
[33:51.600 --> 33:52.200]  How about Canada?
[33:53.380 --> 33:54.660]  Canada most certainly does.
[33:56.020 --> 34:02.920]  So the question is, is it better than to go to a country like that and pick up something there?
[34:03.560 --> 34:07.160]  Well, I mean, if you were interested in keeping a U.S.
[34:07.220 --> 34:24.930]  phone number while you traveled overseas, keeping in mind that that tends to be very expensive, in excess of a dollar a minute, but you could go to either of the GSM carriers, which in this country are T-Mobile and Singular, and go there and say, this is what you want to do,
[34:24.960 --> 34:29.980]  and ask them what their least expensive phone is, and I'm sure their salesperson would tell you.
[34:30.280 --> 34:30.500]  Okay.
[34:30.980 --> 34:33.780]  Another thing, another point, though, by the way, this is a...
[34:33.780 --> 34:39.640]  They gave me a 646 phone number, and that apparently seems to be quite common these days with this type of phone.
[34:39.640 --> 34:49.820]  So when you were talking about the telemarketers, there really is no way of them knowing, because 646 is now, you know, the newer, you know, exchange for the city.
[34:51.240 --> 34:56.520]  So if it's not possible for them to know what it is, then you really can't hold them responsible.
[34:56.740 --> 35:01.820]  I mean, personally, yes, I don't want to pay for somebody, you know, calling me to try to sell me some garbage.
[35:02.040 --> 35:04.660]  No, but you hold them responsible just for being telemarketers in the first place.
[35:04.660 --> 35:05.520]  Well, that's true.
[35:05.660 --> 35:06.620]  That's what I do.
[35:06.800 --> 35:07.720]  That's true, that's true.
[35:07.720 --> 35:08.800]  Now, another question.
[35:09.950 --> 35:19.950]  This phone is tied in, as you said, to one carrier, and the only way that I can use it is to buy minutes from them.
[35:19.980 --> 35:27.000]  Are there any third-party people that do, that supply, you know, like, with that kind of a setup?
[35:27.020 --> 35:28.780]  Are there any third-party people, for example?
[35:28.780 --> 35:35.200]  I mean, like, for example, I can go to a phone card store, and I can buy phone cards in terms of...
[35:35.200 --> 35:43.100]  I can ask the man which one is going to give me the best rates to, let's say, Netherlands and the United Kingdom and Spain, you know, and they'll know.
[35:43.240 --> 35:43.820]  You know what I'm saying?
[35:43.980 --> 35:46.380]  Because they've got all different kinds of options there.
[35:46.450 --> 35:52.960]  I'm just wondering, are there, like, third parties in terms of getting the Sims for inside the country?
[35:52.960 --> 35:53.560]  You know what I'm saying?
[35:54.740 --> 35:55.220]  Not really.
[35:55.880 --> 36:00.910]  Track phone is not the only prepaid carrier in the U.S.
[36:01.240 --> 36:01.410]  Right.
[36:01.410 --> 36:06.200]  You couldn't use that phone, because I'm sure it's hardware locked just to track phones.
[36:06.380 --> 36:07.140]  You couldn't use it.
[36:07.140 --> 36:08.180]  Again, it doesn't matter.
[36:08.960 --> 36:09.970]  Even if you could...
[36:10.600 --> 36:16.930]  Even if the SIM chip would go in, still, that's only locked to their carrier.
[36:17.500 --> 36:17.660]  Right.
[36:18.660 --> 36:19.980]  Okay, sir, we've got to move on.
[36:20.100 --> 36:21.160]  Yes, and thank you so much.
[36:21.320 --> 36:21.660]  All right, good luck.
[36:22.520 --> 36:24.760]  And we have a volunteer for Skype.
[36:25.640 --> 36:29.660]  A call has come in for us to call somebody.
[36:30.910 --> 36:32.700]  And this is legitimate, Walter, right?
[36:33.200 --> 36:34.180]  I guess so.
[36:34.300 --> 36:34.560]  I don't know.
[36:34.780 --> 36:35.740]  We've got to try it.
[36:35.820 --> 36:39.120]  Now, does she know that she won't be able to hear us?
[36:39.580 --> 36:41.500]  We won't be able to hear what she has to say.
[36:41.640 --> 36:43.140]  She might be listening right now.
[36:43.180 --> 36:52.800]  Okay, well, hopefully she is, and she'll hear me say this, because otherwise she's going to get, you know, a call and won't be able to hear what I'm actually saying, and will think it's a prank call on Skype.
[36:52.860 --> 36:53.450]  Has that happened yet?
[36:53.720 --> 36:55.060]  It must happen all the time, right?
[36:55.240 --> 36:57.500]  It's free to call one Skype to another.
[36:57.540 --> 36:57.820]  That's right.
[36:57.860 --> 36:59.360]  So there's no disincentive to pranking.
[36:59.380 --> 37:01.380]  Redbird, you've used Skype quite a bit, right?
[37:01.580 --> 37:01.780]  Yes.
[37:02.430 --> 37:04.300]  Have you gotten any wrong numbers?
[37:04.500 --> 37:07.450]  No, but I, generally speaking, don't leave it open when I'm not using it.
[37:07.450 --> 37:08.480]  That's probably good advice.
[37:08.620 --> 37:08.780]  Okay.
[37:09.040 --> 37:10.380]  Have you ever prank called anyone?
[37:10.640 --> 37:10.860]  No.
[37:11.100 --> 37:13.240]  Well, you can't block your caller ID, can you?
[37:13.450 --> 37:14.320]  It doesn't matter.
[37:14.860 --> 37:15.180]  All right.
[37:15.280 --> 37:27.410]  We're going to attempt to make this phone call or computer call now, and the next thing you hear will be somebody who ordinarily would be on the phone and instead is coming to you through the internet.
[37:28.020 --> 37:31.450]  Hopefully the sound quality will be noticeably good.
[37:32.100 --> 37:32.840]  Let's listen.
[37:48.550 --> 37:49.280]  All right.
[37:52.000 --> 37:58.090]  Well, unfortunately, unfortunately, I don't know if any of that went over the air, but boy.
[37:58.760 --> 38:03.700]  Contact her back and tell her we'll try it again and tell her she can't hear us over the computer.
[38:03.840 --> 38:05.400]  I don't think we're going to try that number again.
[38:05.440 --> 38:05.820]  We should.
[38:07.050 --> 38:09.260]  The first thing she did was utter an obscenity.
[38:09.360 --> 38:09.780]  Come on.
[38:09.880 --> 38:10.440]  She said hello.
[38:10.650 --> 38:11.820]  When did she utter an obscenity?
[38:11.820 --> 38:12.540]  We didn't hear her.
[38:12.940 --> 38:13.920]  We had to dump.
[38:14.500 --> 38:15.440]  I've never dumped before.
[38:16.360 --> 38:17.700]  So I don't know what that even sounded like.
[38:18.610 --> 38:19.130]  Rephrase that.
[38:19.380 --> 38:20.460]  You're using the delay system.
[38:20.590 --> 38:20.760]  Yeah.
[38:20.880 --> 38:22.500]  Well, it's a delay thing.
[38:22.860 --> 38:23.020]  All right.
[38:23.070 --> 38:23.820]  Let's take some more phone calls.
[38:23.940 --> 38:24.300]  Good evening.
[38:24.610 --> 38:25.340]  You're on the air.
[38:26.820 --> 38:27.240]  Go ahead.
[38:28.240 --> 38:28.550]  Hello?
[38:28.720 --> 38:28.880]  Yes.
[38:28.960 --> 38:29.180]  Go ahead.
[38:29.650 --> 38:29.980]  Yes.
[38:30.360 --> 38:31.400]  Let me just turn my phone.
[38:31.610 --> 38:31.880]  Sure.
[38:32.650 --> 38:33.680]  Am I on the air now?
[38:33.900 --> 38:34.500]  Yes, you are.
[38:34.500 --> 38:35.540]  Okay.
[38:36.760 --> 38:48.720]  Previously, one of you were saying that you're not able to know if you're calling a cell phone versus a home phone when you're calling overseas.
[38:48.720 --> 38:52.550]  But I'm not familiar with all the different countries.
[38:53.240 --> 39:01.960]  But for Brazil, for example, if you're calling a cell phone, cell phones are usually stored with nine and eight.
[39:02.340 --> 39:03.180]  Perhaps seven.
[39:03.180 --> 39:09.300]  But any number starting with two, three, and four, maybe five, they're all home phones.
[39:10.260 --> 39:17.220]  I guess that's, you know, but as far as European countries and anywhere else, I'm not too familiar with that.
[39:18.780 --> 39:19.980]  It's different for every country.
[39:20.090 --> 39:20.920]  That's part of the problem.
[39:21.070 --> 39:21.220]  Yeah.
[39:21.260 --> 39:29.840]  I think the issue is, so now I know this for Brazil and there may be a couple other countries that I know the rules for, but there's no way I could keep in my head the rules for every single country.
[39:29.840 --> 39:35.150]  So if I'm looking at a number in a country I never called before, I have no way to know if it's a cell phone or not.
[39:35.540 --> 39:35.980]  Yeah.
[39:36.090 --> 39:36.540]  Yeah, you're right.
[39:36.650 --> 39:45.110]  But I think the reason why the higher numbers are for Brazil is probably because cell phones are fairly new.
[39:45.680 --> 39:48.590]  So they, you know, they started with the higher numbers.
[39:49.020 --> 39:55.920]  But I think as cell phones get more and more popular, they will have to come down.
[39:57.830 --> 40:01.380]  So, you know, I think right now that's how it is.
[40:01.480 --> 40:10.900]  But as you go, you know, as time goes on, you know, five to ten years later, I think, you know, that old logic will not be the same.
[40:11.020 --> 40:11.550]  Yeah, I agree.
[40:11.740 --> 40:12.070]  I agree.
[40:12.220 --> 40:13.040]  Things have to change.
[40:13.480 --> 40:13.700]  Yeah.
[40:14.000 --> 40:14.220]  All right.
[40:14.260 --> 40:14.780]  Thanks for your call.
[40:15.000 --> 40:15.220]  All right.
[40:15.280 --> 40:15.480]  Thanks.
[40:16.520 --> 40:20.610]  And still looking for another Skype user to give a call to.
[40:20.840 --> 40:22.090]  Who understands that we're on the air.
[40:22.180 --> 40:22.420]  Yeah.
[40:23.020 --> 40:24.800]  Well, I thought I understood that from the beginning.
[40:25.200 --> 40:26.000]  Let's take a look at the phone call.
[40:26.050 --> 40:26.280]  Good evening.
[40:26.360 --> 40:26.780]  You're on the air.
[40:27.630 --> 40:27.880]  Hello.
[40:28.150 --> 40:28.610]  Yes, go ahead.
[40:29.180 --> 40:29.480]  Hi.
[40:29.680 --> 40:30.840]  I'm a Skippy user.
[40:31.360 --> 40:31.680]  Skippy?
[40:31.940 --> 40:32.630]  Is that how you...
[40:32.630 --> 40:34.040]  Have we been saying it wrong the whole time?
[40:34.150 --> 40:34.880]  Yeah, I'm sorry.
[40:35.220 --> 40:36.520]  Well, we might be saying it wrong.
[40:36.650 --> 40:38.920]  I mean, you know, we're reading a website, so we don't know.
[40:39.070 --> 40:40.040]  I'm pretty confident in Skype.
[40:40.040 --> 40:41.180]  And I'm also 12 years old.
[40:41.340 --> 40:42.220]  You're 12 years old.
[40:42.300 --> 40:43.000]  Okay, that's fine.
[40:43.070 --> 40:43.480]  That's fine.
[40:43.550 --> 40:44.550]  You meet our qualifications.
[40:44.780 --> 40:46.040]  So you're a Skype user, right?
[40:46.200 --> 40:46.360]  Yep.
[40:52.420 --> 40:53.940]  So you don't give it out to the entire world.
[40:56.000 --> 40:56.720]  And then...
[40:56.720 --> 40:58.070]  All right, it's line five.
[41:00.590 --> 41:02.740]  And just don't repeat it out loud when you're writing it down.
[41:03.150 --> 41:03.840]  You know that.
[41:04.000 --> 41:04.110]  All right.
[41:05.340 --> 41:11.090]  And we're going to attempt to call this person, who you just heard their voice, their 12-year-old voice, on the air.
[41:12.110 --> 41:17.940]  And what we're going to do is call them on Skype, or Skippy, or whatever it's called.
[41:18.360 --> 41:19.280]  It's fun, you know?
[41:19.400 --> 41:21.090]  This is fun technology.
[41:21.590 --> 41:22.000]  Okay.
[41:22.420 --> 41:22.740]  All right?
[41:23.440 --> 41:24.520]  Bernie, you're still there, right?
[41:24.800 --> 41:25.480]  I'm still here.
[41:25.550 --> 41:26.020]  Okay, good.
[41:27.020 --> 41:28.480]  And the caller is back over there?
[41:29.150 --> 41:29.550]  Okay.
[41:30.840 --> 41:31.960]  Let's go back to the caller.
[41:32.650 --> 41:33.440]  Caller, are you there?
[41:35.760 --> 41:36.540]  Caller, are you there?
[41:36.760 --> 41:37.150]  Yep, I'm here.
[41:37.150 --> 41:37.360]  Okay.
[41:37.800 --> 41:38.920]  Where are you calling from, by the way?
[41:39.780 --> 41:40.180]  Queens.
[41:40.180 --> 41:41.150]  Queens, okay.
[41:42.940 --> 41:46.380]  So, what's going to happen is your computer or whatever is going to ring.
[41:46.590 --> 41:47.040]  Okay.
[41:47.240 --> 41:48.940]  But you won't be able to hear us on the computer.
[41:49.150 --> 41:49.480]  Okay.
[41:49.650 --> 41:52.760]  So, don't utter any words that you shouldn't utter if that happens.
[41:53.240 --> 41:53.500]  Okay.
[41:53.760 --> 42:02.630]  And just say something, say a couple of sentences, so that we can hear the difference in sound quality of your voice here on the phone and over the computer.
[42:02.980 --> 42:03.360]  You got it.
[42:03.540 --> 42:03.880]  Okay.
[42:04.300 --> 42:05.860]  I think he understands that.
[42:06.050 --> 42:06.610]  Here we go.
[42:31.410 --> 42:32.590]  Why isn't he picking up?
[42:41.030 --> 42:42.230]  Did you get his name right?
[42:46.680 --> 42:48.580]  I want to see what happens if it keeps going.
[42:56.210 --> 42:56.570]  Okay.
[42:56.810 --> 42:58.450]  Caller, you hear what's happening, right?
[42:58.730 --> 42:58.910]  Yeah.
[42:59.230 --> 43:00.170]  Is there a reason for this?
[43:01.170 --> 43:02.950]  Well, my dad uses it every day.
[43:03.150 --> 43:03.870]  He's Arab.
[43:04.070 --> 43:04.570]  He's Egyptian.
[43:04.570 --> 43:05.950]  So, he uses it to Egypt.
[43:06.190 --> 43:06.570]  Okay.
[43:06.730 --> 43:07.310]  Every day.
[43:07.530 --> 43:08.450]  And it works.
[43:09.210 --> 43:11.790]  So, do you have any theory as to why it's not working then?
[43:12.670 --> 43:13.850]  What theory is that?
[43:15.390 --> 43:18.590]  Well, since you were using it with Bernie and it wasn't working, maybe it's you guys.
[43:18.850 --> 43:20.350]  No, no, because it wasn't ringing.
[43:20.550 --> 43:21.350]  It wasn't ringing with Bernie.
[43:21.990 --> 43:23.590]  Is nothing showing up on your end?
[43:23.770 --> 43:24.050]  Nope.
[43:24.770 --> 43:25.070]  Okay.
[43:25.270 --> 43:28.810]  You know, I'm going to put you back on hold and the person's going to take...
[43:28.810 --> 43:32.050]  He's going to take the name again because maybe he got it wrong.
[43:32.950 --> 43:34.210]  We do make mistakes sometimes.
[43:34.210 --> 43:35.010]  So, hold on a second.
[43:37.410 --> 43:37.770]  Okay.
[43:38.850 --> 43:40.350]  This is what I think it is, right?
[43:40.550 --> 43:41.570]  So, it's...
[43:42.330 --> 43:42.690]  Yeah.
[43:43.950 --> 43:45.210]  Let's verify or whatever.
[43:46.970 --> 43:48.310]  Well, I put him on hold.
[43:49.630 --> 43:50.910]  He doesn't seem to be on hold anymore.
[43:51.650 --> 43:52.010]  Okay.
[43:52.050 --> 43:52.270]  You know what?
[43:52.290 --> 43:53.770]  We're going to go back to the drawing board.
[43:54.870 --> 43:55.490]  Session ended.
[43:55.810 --> 43:56.650]  Let's take another phone call.
[43:56.650 --> 43:56.930]  Good evening.
[43:56.970 --> 43:57.410]  You're on the air.
[43:59.270 --> 43:59.750]  Hello?
[43:59.830 --> 44:00.070]  Go ahead.
[44:01.510 --> 44:03.770]  I'm not the kid on Sky.
[44:04.150 --> 44:04.890]  I'm not the kid.
[44:05.150 --> 44:05.970]  I'll be real quick, though.
[44:06.270 --> 44:06.370]  Yeah.
[44:06.710 --> 44:07.530]  I'm talking about NSA.
[44:07.970 --> 44:09.370]  James Bamford, Puzzle Palace.
[44:09.550 --> 44:10.270]  Y'all know him.
[44:10.450 --> 44:19.190]  And he says, way back when, and it's still valid today, 80% of what they wiretap and listening on is based on in this country, not out.
[44:19.450 --> 44:19.930]  In.
[44:20.090 --> 44:24.870]  So, they focus all their technological stuff in this country.
[44:25.010 --> 44:27.910]  They've done it, according to Bamford, I think, since the 60s.
[44:28.130 --> 44:28.610]  Yes.
[44:28.810 --> 44:31.470]  The beautiful Nixon era 60s, you know.
[44:31.710 --> 44:33.530]  He had at least a good excuse.
[44:33.710 --> 44:35.670]  He wanted to make sure who was the potential enemy.
[44:35.890 --> 44:40.170]  But NSA, by law, not by, what you call, the presidential directive, by law.
[44:40.410 --> 44:40.770]  Okay.
[44:40.770 --> 44:42.690]  They basically focus all this stuff on, in America.
[44:43.270 --> 44:46.750]  Let me just put you on hold for a second, sir, because we're getting an incoming call now.
[44:46.850 --> 44:48.530]  This is what an incoming call sounds like, from that caller.
[44:49.970 --> 44:50.810]  I'm going to pick this up.
[44:52.630 --> 44:54.510]  Hopefully, this person will start talking to us.
[44:54.510 --> 44:57.330]  Oh, wow.
[44:58.970 --> 45:02.970]  Okay, you're going to hear us something like seven seconds after, if you listen to the radio.
[45:03.770 --> 45:07.730]  So I'm going to talk for a little bit and just instruct you to say something, just as a couple of sentences.
[45:07.910 --> 45:09.250]  Sounds like your mic might be a little distorted.
[45:11.770 --> 45:12.450]  Calling 2600.
[45:12.830 --> 45:13.490]  Hello, world.
[45:15.570 --> 45:16.970]  I don't know what else to say.
[45:17.550 --> 45:18.770]  Okay, well, that's great.
[45:18.890 --> 45:19.210]  That's great.
[45:19.250 --> 45:21.670]  I think that's a really good demonstration of how it sounds.
[45:22.870 --> 45:23.730]  Thanks for calling.
[45:23.770 --> 45:25.250]  Let's go back to our phone call.
[45:25.750 --> 45:26.610]  Are you still there, sir?
[45:26.610 --> 45:27.410]  Yes, I am.
[45:27.530 --> 45:28.230]  Okay, sorry about that.
[45:28.230 --> 45:28.950]  It was an incoming call.
[45:29.030 --> 45:29.670]  We had to take it.
[45:30.010 --> 45:33.570]  But I want to thank that caller from Queens very much for demonstrating it for us.
[45:34.470 --> 45:50.790]  Yeah, I mean, I think James Bamford, I mean, after all the research he's done, I mean, if anybody could be critical of, you know what you call, go through a fine-toothed call about what NSA reportedly does, or one of the few times when a congressional report,
[45:50.890 --> 45:56.430]  not a hearing so much, but the long, lengthy, thickest trees reports come out.
[45:56.610 --> 45:57.570]  And it says it.
[45:57.950 --> 46:05.810]  Their budget, well, not the part of the budget they let leak out, 80% of their listening concentrates on what happens in this nation.
[46:05.950 --> 46:10.430]  And again, not way before 9-11, before Oklahoma City.
[46:11.170 --> 46:13.550]  It's really from the 60s on.
[46:13.730 --> 46:16.670]  Because I think it was before the 60s, it was mostly like 40%.
[46:16.670 --> 46:20.310]  And only when it was a real problem did it go beyond 40.
[46:20.450 --> 46:22.090]  Since the 60s, it went to 80%.
[46:22.090 --> 46:28.530]  So in effect, an agency that, if the CIA is there, NSA makes the CIA look like less than nothing.
[46:28.830 --> 46:29.210]  Okay.
[46:29.650 --> 46:30.590]  Listen, sir, we're going to move on.
[46:30.650 --> 46:32.870]  But thanks so much for your input there.
[46:32.990 --> 46:35.830]  And yes, I recommend James Bamford, The Puzzle Palace.
[46:36.090 --> 46:36.670]  Great book.
[46:36.830 --> 46:37.570]  Out of print, though.
[46:37.690 --> 46:40.630]  But hopefully it'll come back into print, because it's very pertinent these days.
[46:41.330 --> 46:44.690]  Guys, what do you think of the sound quality of that call there?
[46:44.830 --> 46:48.690]  I think he was too close to his mic, because generally speaking, it sounds much better than that.
[46:48.690 --> 46:51.350]  But it did sound pretty good, even with him being too close to his mic.
[46:52.210 --> 46:53.370]  You look skeptical, Mike.
[46:53.810 --> 46:55.110]  We have all this hoopla.
[46:55.170 --> 46:56.710]  All these people are saying, Skype is wonderful.
[46:56.710 --> 46:57.950]  It sounds like you're next door.
[46:58.050 --> 47:00.910]  And then we get the call, and we get this weird...
[47:00.910 --> 47:02.770]  Did it not sound better than a phone call?
[47:02.810 --> 47:03.830]  It was better than a phone call.
[47:03.870 --> 47:04.150]  All right.
[47:04.350 --> 47:07.710]  That's all I wanted to show you, that it sounded better than a phone call.
[47:07.830 --> 47:13.430]  And with a decent microphone and the right distance away, it'll sound like you're...
[47:13.430 --> 47:16.830]  You know, finally my dream of phone calls that sound like they're FM radio.
[47:17.010 --> 47:18.250]  That is one of my dreams.
[47:18.250 --> 47:23.510]  So if you live with a professional audio engineer, then good calls may be coming to you any day now.
[47:23.650 --> 47:25.450]  Equipment will come with this.
[47:25.590 --> 47:31.690]  You know, you can walk around with a Walkman or something and talk into the microphone, and it'll sound very, very real.
[47:31.710 --> 47:32.690]  He was 12.
[47:32.870 --> 47:34.370]  His voice was changing during the call.
[47:34.650 --> 47:36.510]  I don't think that's even fair to say.
[47:37.270 --> 47:39.250]  He's the one person who was able to figure it out.
[47:39.430 --> 47:40.630]  I'm very impressed with that.
[47:40.650 --> 47:41.990]  I must say, I am very impressed with that.
[47:41.990 --> 47:45.190]  I didn't even think of asking him to call back, and then he did that on his own.
[47:45.350 --> 47:45.870]  I'm very impressed.
[47:45.970 --> 47:47.170]  So thank you very much for doing that.
[47:48.670 --> 47:52.270]  And Bernie, maybe next week, we can get your version working.
[47:53.070 --> 47:54.210]  Yeah, very disappointing.
[47:54.570 --> 47:55.470]  Because we like to hear...
[47:55.470 --> 47:56.930]  We've heard your voice so many times.
[47:56.930 --> 47:58.450]  Hey, I just made a successful test call.
[47:58.610 --> 47:58.930]  You did?
[47:59.050 --> 48:00.090]  Okay, let's try calling you again.
[48:00.190 --> 48:07.990]  I uninstalled the application and reinstalled it, but it didn't like my authentication, so I had to change the username.
[48:08.810 --> 48:10.370]  Oh, so you have a different username now.
[48:11.370 --> 48:17.730]  It's the same as the last one, except the last four digits are easily guessed.
[48:18.190 --> 48:18.530]  Okay.
[48:19.810 --> 48:23.770]  And are those last four digits replacing the letters?
[48:24.090 --> 48:25.050]  The last four digits...
[48:25.050 --> 48:26.870]  Bernie, you've gone away.
[48:26.990 --> 48:27.630]  I don't know where you are.
[48:27.870 --> 48:28.130]  Go ahead.
[48:28.570 --> 48:29.870]  I'll put my finger over the microphone.
[48:29.870 --> 48:40.050]  Yes, the last four characters of the previous username have been replaced by four digits that we all know and love.
[48:40.710 --> 48:40.990]  Okay.
[48:41.590 --> 48:43.570]  Let's see if we can actually reach you this time.
[48:43.610 --> 48:44.750]  Must be 1492.
[48:46.590 --> 48:47.170]  1776.
[48:49.650 --> 48:50.450]  It's ringing.
[48:57.380 --> 48:57.960]  Hello?
[48:58.790 --> 49:00.100]  Hey, I hear myself.
[49:00.320 --> 49:01.460]  That's pretty good.
[49:02.040 --> 49:03.670]  Bernie, obviously you can't hear us.
[49:04.220 --> 49:05.770]  I'm going to say a sentence now.
[49:05.920 --> 49:10.670]  This is my voice over Skype as compared to Sprint PCS.
[49:11.840 --> 49:14.480]  And I'm imagining that it sounds much more clear.
[49:15.790 --> 49:16.620]  It definitely does.
[49:16.620 --> 49:20.560]  Let's try putting you on the phone and on this at the same time.
[49:21.230 --> 49:23.520]  Bernie, you can hear me now over the phone, right?
[49:23.770 --> 49:25.770]  Okay, now I'm on a Sprint PCS phone.
[49:25.900 --> 49:27.380]  All right, so now you're echoing a little bit.
[49:28.480 --> 49:29.860]  I'm going to put the mic away for me.
[49:30.080 --> 49:30.840]  Okay, how's that?
[49:30.840 --> 49:32.650]  All right, so you can already hear me.
[49:32.710 --> 49:38.820]  Since you're already connected on the phone, you can hear me through the phone, and I guess you can respond live over the computer.
[49:40.120 --> 49:40.880]  I can do that.
[49:41.340 --> 49:42.770]  Well, you have to speak into the microphone.
[49:43.460 --> 49:45.500]  All right, now I'm talking into the microphone at the Skype.
[49:46.560 --> 49:50.420]  Okay, well, this is a dramatic improvement, and this is costing us nothing.
[49:50.790 --> 49:51.800]  This costs zero.
[49:52.210 --> 49:53.580]  That's what's cool about this.
[49:54.170 --> 49:55.540]  Well, it's actually costing...
[49:55.540 --> 49:56.060]  Go ahead.
[49:56.060 --> 49:59.020]  Me, I'm hearing the echo, so that's throwing me off.
[49:59.360 --> 50:06.270]  It's actually costing me about $60 a month through Sprint's EVDO connection, but it's unlimited.
[50:06.560 --> 50:09.320]  You're paying whatever internet connection you're paying for.
[50:09.820 --> 50:11.000]  Right, as anyone would.
[50:11.080 --> 50:14.900]  Right, but the actual service itself doesn't cost anything.
[50:15.210 --> 50:18.980]  The calls themselves, if you make them from one computer to another, don't cost anything.
[50:19.670 --> 50:22.120]  So I think that's what's really cool about this whole thing.
[50:22.420 --> 50:25.100]  And we are actually able to communicate, which surprises me.
[50:25.100 --> 50:26.460]  You're hearing something of an echo, though.
[50:27.300 --> 50:31.020]  Well, it's because I have the phone...
[50:31.020 --> 50:38.820]  It's a weird echo because I'm talking on my Sprint phone at the same time I'm talking to Skype, and Sprint has the delay.
[50:39.880 --> 50:41.600]  So it's very disconcerting.
[50:41.900 --> 50:43.170]  It's like a satellite call.
[50:44.400 --> 50:44.840]  Yeah, it is.
[50:44.840 --> 50:48.000]  Do you remember, like a half second or a second delay?
[50:48.380 --> 50:48.690]  Mm-hmm.
[50:49.770 --> 50:50.620]  Very disconcerting.
[50:50.800 --> 50:52.340]  It is disconcerting, but I'm sure...
[50:52.340 --> 50:53.100]  This is not standard.
[50:53.100 --> 50:56.080]  No, we'll try and iron out these difficulties.
[50:56.150 --> 50:57.060]  But it's just...
[50:57.060 --> 51:00.290]  It's so cool that you're on the phone, and yet you sound like you're in the studio.
[51:00.440 --> 51:01.320]  And I think this is...
[51:01.960 --> 51:04.540]  Yeah, we know it's not new technology, so don't jump on us.
[51:04.800 --> 51:09.480]  But it's new for us here at the radio station to be doing this on the radio.
[51:09.580 --> 51:11.230]  And we're going to try and integrate this more.
[51:11.380 --> 51:15.920]  Now, I hear Bernie making some strange kind of like electronic sounds.
[51:16.120 --> 51:17.710]  He sort of fades away every now and then.
[51:17.800 --> 51:18.580]  You know what's going on there?
[51:19.170 --> 51:20.480]  A little bit of packet loss, maybe?
[51:20.750 --> 51:20.880]  Yeah.
[51:21.580 --> 51:22.730]  Ah, packet loss.
[51:22.900 --> 51:23.650]  A little bit of packet loss.
[51:24.150 --> 51:25.270]  Well, it can only get better.
[51:25.320 --> 51:28.380]  And if you want more information on this, go to www.skype.com.
[51:28.380 --> 51:30.500]  That's S-K-Y-P-E dot com.
[51:30.620 --> 51:35.290]  And of course, there are other services like this as well, other voiceover IP services.
[51:35.290 --> 51:38.500]  But this is a small demonstration of what it can do.
[51:38.500 --> 51:39.860]  And there's a...
[51:39.860 --> 51:43.300]  This also lets you do typing like a...
[51:43.300 --> 51:45.400]  Boy, this delay is really disconcerting.
[51:45.600 --> 51:47.750]  Let's go back to the phone, all right?
[51:47.750 --> 51:47.940]  Okay.
[51:48.150 --> 51:51.060]  We're going to go back to the old-fashioned phone and disconnect this.
[51:51.650 --> 51:52.320]  Hang up.
[51:53.040 --> 51:53.500]  Skype call.
[51:53.800 --> 51:54.190]  Okay.
[51:54.360 --> 51:55.460]  Now you can really tell the difference.
[51:55.770 --> 51:55.860]  Yeah.
[51:55.980 --> 51:56.210]  Ah.
[51:56.710 --> 52:00.770]  Boy, that was really draining my brain, the latency.
[52:01.100 --> 52:03.360]  Well, it's, you know, for the purposes of science.
[52:03.360 --> 52:05.300]  Now, I have a question.
[52:05.460 --> 52:10.250]  Am I hallucinating or am I hearing on the phone Bernie with a Midwestern accent?
[52:10.750 --> 52:12.020]  Or rather, Bernie with an accent.
[52:12.210 --> 52:15.150]  And on the Skype, he seems to have no accent.
[52:15.150 --> 52:18.580]  He seems to come from the Midwest with no accent at all.
[52:18.710 --> 52:24.150]  Well, actually, Jim, you've touched upon that one of the side benefits of Skype is auto-accent insertion.
[52:24.650 --> 52:25.080]  Yeah.
[52:26.270 --> 52:28.480]  Bernie, you had something to say, right?
[52:28.940 --> 52:29.360]  Oh, yes.
[52:29.750 --> 52:30.270]  Okay, go ahead.
[52:30.270 --> 52:35.250]  It's a crazy half-duplex experiment we were doing tonight with callers.
[52:35.880 --> 52:40.120]  Skype does also have a chat window where you can actually type back and forth while you're talking.
[52:40.320 --> 52:44.980]  So for the reverse channel, we could have had the other person type something.
[52:45.300 --> 52:46.860]  But whatever.
[52:49.940 --> 52:50.400]  Okay.
[52:50.670 --> 52:53.460]  We're just making sure that the 9 o'clock show is here.
[52:53.840 --> 52:58.730]  I think they are, but we just want to make sure so that we don't have to sail on beyond the hour.
[52:59.270 --> 53:01.440]  We've got something else we'd like to share with people, too.
[53:01.670 --> 53:05.300]  This comes from a reader, or a listener, rather, who writes in.
[53:05.690 --> 53:07.250]  His name is Unpaid Bill.
[53:07.380 --> 53:08.790]  Thank you very much for writing in Unpaid Bill.
[53:09.560 --> 53:14.540]  Perhaps you're already aware of this from an article which appeared on Newsday a few weeks ago.
[53:14.710 --> 53:19.060]  It seems that free directory assistance is back, albeit with a string or two.
[53:19.520 --> 53:22.730]  It actually is a commercial venture, not run by the phone company.
[53:23.360 --> 53:28.290]  So we all know if we call information, it's going to cost us, what, a dollar these days?
[53:28.670 --> 53:29.580]  Is that what it costs?
[53:30.860 --> 53:31.500]  Nobody knows.
[53:31.600 --> 53:32.120]  Nobody calls information.
[53:32.170 --> 53:33.540]  Through a cell phone carrier, yeah.
[53:33.800 --> 53:34.060]  All right.
[53:34.750 --> 53:35.710]  Let's get a dial tone.
[53:37.170 --> 53:37.690]  All right.
[53:37.750 --> 53:39.250]  That's one of our old-fashioned dial tones.
[53:40.000 --> 53:48.020]  And we call this number, 1-800-411-SAVE.
[53:50.380 --> 53:50.940]  Okay.
[53:51.480 --> 53:53.840]  And this will connect us to...
[53:53.840 --> 53:56.270]  You've reached 1-800-411-SAVE.
[53:56.400 --> 53:57.320]  This call is free.
[53:57.540 --> 53:58.800]  Please hold for an operator.
[53:59.920 --> 54:01.400]  We'll get a live operator.
[54:03.290 --> 54:04.600]  In state, please.
[54:04.940 --> 54:06.440]  New York, New York.
[54:14.530 --> 54:15.650]  That's New York, New York?
[54:15.810 --> 54:16.370]  Yes, it is.
[54:19.820 --> 54:20.500]  Can you hear me?
[54:20.760 --> 54:21.620]  Yes, I'm sorry.
[54:21.800 --> 54:22.860]  What's the listing, please?
[54:22.940 --> 54:24.560]  I'm looking for WBAI.
[54:24.760 --> 54:25.860]  It's a radio station.
[54:28.750 --> 54:29.550]  Thank you.
[54:34.900 --> 54:35.760]  Thanks for calling.
[54:35.940 --> 54:37.680]  1-800-411-SAVE.
[54:37.820 --> 54:39.600]  We want to be your 411 choice.
[54:39.840 --> 54:43.900]  After you get the number you requested, press zero to give us your feedback about our service.
[54:44.360 --> 54:47.300]  The number you requested is 718...
[54:47.300 --> 54:47.760]  What?
[54:47.760 --> 54:49.280]  7-7-4.
[54:49.500 --> 54:50.340]  Wait a minute.
[54:50.780 --> 54:51.140]  Okay.
[54:51.780 --> 54:53.600]  Obviously, they have a few kinks to work out themselves.
[54:54.600 --> 54:55.740]  Have we moved to Brooklyn?
[54:55.860 --> 54:56.380]  We don't know.
[54:56.560 --> 54:57.460]  We should have copied that down.
[54:57.460 --> 55:00.020]  You should put some poor, innocent person's phone number over the air?
[55:00.080 --> 55:00.740]  I don't think so.
[55:01.380 --> 55:01.860]  All right.
[55:01.960 --> 55:05.940]  Well, the idea is that they give you the right phone number, but you have to sit through an ad first.
[55:06.340 --> 55:10.220]  Now, I think that's not a bad deal if they give you the right information.
[55:11.380 --> 55:14.980]  It's certainly better than paying ransom to the phone company just to find out a phone number.
[55:15.100 --> 55:18.260]  And oftentimes, you pay more for the number than you do to make the phone call.
[55:19.020 --> 55:21.080]  It's also kind of cool to talk to a human being again.
[55:21.300 --> 55:22.860]  You don't do that anymore when you call information.
[55:24.080 --> 55:27.140]  So anyway, 1-800-411-SAVE.
[55:27.140 --> 55:29.280]  Hopefully, you'll have better luck with that than we just did.
[55:30.720 --> 55:33.920]  So we're almost out of time, and I understand the 9 o'clock show is here.
[55:34.220 --> 55:34.580]  Okay.
[55:34.780 --> 55:36.860]  So these two hours have flown by.
[55:37.100 --> 55:37.680]  They really have.
[55:38.460 --> 55:41.660]  The personal computer folks will be back next week between 8 and 9.
[55:41.660 --> 55:43.860]  We'll be back at our usual time between 7 and 8.
[55:44.040 --> 55:50.360]  Hopefully, that guy will be sworn in by then so we don't have to jump through hoops with our schedule.
[55:50.600 --> 55:51.220]  Or rejected.
[55:51.860 --> 55:52.220]  Yeah.
[55:52.320 --> 55:55.720]  But if they reject them, then they got to do it again to some other poor schmuck out there.
[55:55.940 --> 55:57.320]  I see how it works.
[55:57.460 --> 55:57.580]  Yeah.
[55:59.020 --> 56:00.780]  Again, write to us.
[56:00.940 --> 56:03.460]  O-T-H at 2600.com.
[56:04.000 --> 56:07.700]  If you want to send us snail mail, the address.
[56:07.960 --> 56:10.220]  You have a second chance, Walter, to redeem yourself here.
[56:10.380 --> 56:11.040]  So wake up.
[56:12.260 --> 56:13.220]  Off the hook.
[56:13.440 --> 56:14.720]  Care of WBAI.
[56:15.160 --> 56:16.420]  120 Wall Street.
[56:16.780 --> 56:17.360]  10th floor.
[56:18.080 --> 56:18.900]  New York.
[56:19.180 --> 56:19.880]  New York.
[56:20.140 --> 56:22.480]  1-0-0-0-5.
[56:23.440 --> 56:23.840]  All right.
[56:24.300 --> 56:25.700]  Bernie, were you calling again?
[56:27.360 --> 56:29.020]  I was just establishing...
[56:29.020 --> 56:31.120]  I was adding you to my Skype contact list.
[56:31.260 --> 56:32.780]  Did it send you something?
[56:32.960 --> 56:33.160]  Yeah.
[56:33.300 --> 56:34.960]  In fact, so did the guy from Queens.
[56:34.960 --> 56:36.640]  He just did the same thing now.
[56:36.880 --> 56:38.900]  We have two little hello messages.
[56:39.200 --> 56:40.900]  Please add me to your contact list.
[56:41.780 --> 56:44.440]  Should I do that on this computer or should I do that on another computer?
[56:44.560 --> 56:46.180]  I'd store it on the server so you could do it wherever.
[56:46.460 --> 56:46.740]  Okay.
[56:47.320 --> 56:47.680]  Okay.
[56:47.900 --> 56:49.400]  We've added you both.
[56:49.580 --> 56:53.440]  Now we're quitting out of the program so that we can finish this for today.
[56:53.440 --> 56:55.500]  So that's our special Skype edition.
[56:55.760 --> 56:56.720]  Second Skype edition.
[56:57.040 --> 56:58.220]  One that actually worked a little bit.
[56:59.800 --> 57:03.500]  And that's going to just about do it for us here on this edition of Off the Hook.
[57:04.620 --> 57:08.860]  Again, we'll be back again next week with another action-packed show.
[57:09.040 --> 57:09.500]  Stay tuned.
[57:09.920 --> 57:10.940]  Everybody happy!
[57:14.740 --> 57:25.980]  For the next program coming up here on WBAI in New York, where you never know what you're going to hear next, Emmanuel Goldstein for Off the Hook, have yourselves a good night.
[57:27.800 --> 57:29.180]  And stay awake and aware.
[57:30.140 --> 57:31.980]  Play with technology whenever possible.
[57:32.260 --> 57:33.720]  And ask lots of questions.
[57:34.280 --> 57:34.920]  See you next time.
[57:34.920 --> 58:09.640]  You're wondering now what to do Now you know this is the end You're wondering how you will be For the way you did behave Krypton has fallen Now you're on your own I won't return.
[58:10.520 --> 58:14.000]  Forever you will wait.
[58:15.240 --> 58:17.260]  You're wandering.
[58:22.240 --> 58:24.280]  No, this is the end.
[58:49.730 --> 58:52.150]  The curtain has fallen.
[58:52.670 --> 58:55.510]  Now you're on your own.
[58:57.310 --> 58:59.570]  I won't return.
[59:00.490 --> 59:03.750]  Forever you will wait.
[59:05.490 --> 59:08.030]  You're wandering now.
[59:08.490 --> 59:10.110]  What to do.
[59:10.650 --> 59:14.170]  Now you know this is the end.
[59:14.710 --> 59:15.430]  Now
[59:42.400 --> 59:45.300]  you know this is the end.
[59:49.170 --> 59:56.210]  We're helping our brothers and sisters through Hurricane Katrina's Act of Mad and a benefit for hurricane relief.
[59:56.210 --> 59:59.650]  Sunday, January 15th, 6.30 p.m.
[59:59.950 --> 01:00:07.310]  at the 6th Street Community Center, 638 East 6th Street between Avenue B and Avenue C.
[01:00:07.590 --> 01:00:15.010]  Join the Lower East Side poets, musicians, and singers of songs, elevating consciousness, celebrating life.
[01:00:15.010 --> 01:00:20.090]  That's the 6th Street Community Center, 638 East 6th Street between Avenue...