[00:00.000 --> 00:03.640]  There are the $60 WBAI generic premiums.
[00:03.720 --> 00:12.300]  There are the $100 CD sets from High Crimes and Misdemeanors and the Bush Administration, Crimes Against Humanity hearings.
[00:12.560 --> 00:16.780]  No matter how much you can afford to pledge, it's really, really important to do it.
[00:16.780 --> 00:21.720]  So please call 212-209-2950.
[00:22.040 --> 00:23.160]  Pledge your support.
[00:23.420 --> 00:29.180]  Keep WBAI on the air and well here in New York City.
[00:29.400 --> 00:30.340]  Thank you very much.
[00:38.830 --> 00:42.530]  And you're listening to radio station WBAI in New York.
[00:42.730 --> 00:44.770]  The time is just about 7 o'clock.
[00:45.190 --> 00:48.610]  And that means, since it's Wednesday night, it's time for Off the Hook.
[00:57.940 --> 00:58.680]  Off the Wall.
[00:59.880 --> 01:01.800]  I cut myself while shaving.
[01:02.400 --> 01:04.320]  Now I can't make a cough.
[01:05.120 --> 01:07.140]  We couldn't get much worse.
[01:10.620 --> 01:12.600]  I'm for the best to expect the worst.
[01:13.280 --> 01:15.120]  I hope that's understood.
[01:15.260 --> 01:16.140]  One little bit more.
[02:04.450 --> 02:05.630]  And a very good evening to everybody.
[02:05.770 --> 02:07.290]  The program is Off the Hook.
[02:07.430 --> 02:10.350]  Emmanuel Goldstein here with you on this Wednesday evening.
[02:11.130 --> 02:16.310]  As we round out the spring... actually, no, this isn't the spring fundraiser.
[02:16.410 --> 02:17.390]  This is the winter fundraiser.
[02:17.810 --> 02:20.450]  Do we have a spring fundraiser or is it the summer fundraiser?
[02:21.230 --> 02:22.210]  It's very cold out.
[02:22.350 --> 02:22.690]  I know that.
[02:22.790 --> 02:24.110]  Well, I know it's not the summer one now.
[02:24.250 --> 02:26.070]  I'm saying when we have one later in the year.
[02:26.150 --> 02:28.650]  I think that's in June usually.
[02:28.790 --> 02:29.550]  Sometimes it's May.
[02:30.550 --> 02:31.790]  Yeah, I guess that's the spring one.
[02:31.830 --> 02:32.610]  This is the winter one.
[02:32.850 --> 02:34.090]  When we have it, we'll tell it.
[02:34.270 --> 02:35.030]  We have three a year.
[02:35.110 --> 02:35.850]  That's why it's confusing.
[02:35.850 --> 02:37.070]  There isn't one for every season.
[02:37.570 --> 02:38.390]  We're working on it.
[02:38.390 --> 02:38.870]  We really are.
[02:39.630 --> 02:43.810]  This is the final show that we'll be on during this marathon.
[02:43.810 --> 02:49.730]  In fact, we weren't actually supposed to be doing a fundraising show this week because the fundraiser was supposed to end yesterday.
[02:49.730 --> 02:52.190]  But apparently, we're falling a little bit behind.
[02:52.790 --> 02:57.710]  And so we're going to count on off-the-hook listeners to help the station reach its goal.
[02:58.050 --> 02:59.670]  The goal is something like $900,000.
[02:59.950 --> 03:03.170]  And I think we're in the $700,000 maybe or $800,000.
[03:03.230 --> 03:03.710]  I don't even know.
[03:03.730 --> 03:04.590]  I don't have it in front of me.
[03:05.150 --> 03:11.830]  But we have the same packages we had the last two shows, which were two weeks ago and three weeks ago, respectively.
[03:13.310 --> 03:30.770]  And those are, just to give everybody the lowdown right away, for $75, you get the marvelous little device known as TV Be Gone, which allows you to turn off television sets everywhere you happen to be in this country and in other countries as well.
[03:30.770 --> 03:40.870]  So, for $100, you get the DVD archive set of Off the Hook in full high-fidelity sound from the very first show until the future.
[03:41.010 --> 03:42.110]  You'll get this forever.
[03:42.110 --> 03:43.730]  You'll get this as long as we're on the air.
[03:44.690 --> 03:47.590]  And what that is, basically, it's a lifetime subscription.
[03:47.590 --> 03:49.790]  Every month, you'll get another year.
[03:49.790 --> 03:57.110]  And when we finally catch up, which will be sometime, I think, next year, then you'll get it once a year.
[03:57.730 --> 04:00.490]  You'll get, like, 2007 in January 2008.
[04:01.030 --> 04:02.930]  You'll just get a lot of sound.
[04:03.050 --> 04:08.230]  And what we're going to be doing tonight, it's kind of a special program tonight, we're going to be playing some highlights.
[04:08.770 --> 04:13.090]  Not highlights of one particular show, highlights of the history of Off the Hook.
[04:13.850 --> 04:16.110]  And I threw this together last night.
[04:16.810 --> 04:27.050]  And I got to say, just going through, going through the years, going through from 1988 up until the present, we've been through so much just on this program, let alone this station.
[04:28.410 --> 04:33.650]  So, if you get this set, you'll be able to relive history in so many different ways.
[04:33.890 --> 04:40.070]  There's so much we left out and so many interesting stories that have yet to be heard again by us, I think.
[04:40.850 --> 04:44.470]  The number to call, 212-209-2950, to pledge your support.
[04:44.790 --> 04:53.690]  If you know right away that that's what you want, and you want to just not be distracted, you want to listen to the special presentation, which will be airing in a few minutes, then give that number a call.
[04:53.750 --> 05:00.210]  And if you want everything, if you want the TV Be Gone and the Lifetime DVD subscription to Off the Hook, 150 bucks will get you that.
[05:00.410 --> 05:05.970]  But everybody, everybody who pledges 25 and over will get a special Off the Hook t-shirt.
[05:06.810 --> 05:08.170]  Now, you guys all have one of those, right?
[05:08.970 --> 05:09.650]  Yes, I do.
[05:10.330 --> 05:11.770]  It's very black.
[05:12.030 --> 05:12.490]  It works, right?
[05:12.690 --> 05:13.790]  It's a t-shirt.
[05:14.090 --> 05:14.790]  Operational t-shirt.
[05:15.110 --> 05:19.250]  And if I wear it, people who look at me are informed about Off the Hook.
[05:19.410 --> 05:20.350]  They don't have to talk to you.
[05:20.470 --> 05:22.530]  No, which is good, because I don't like to talk to people.
[05:22.530 --> 05:24.550]  You're happy, they're happy, everybody wins.
[05:24.890 --> 05:29.010]  And you can't get this shirt any other way than by pledging to WBAI.
[05:29.090 --> 05:34.310]  Actually, I suppose you could steal it from somebody who pledged to WBAI, or they could give it to you.
[05:34.570 --> 05:36.050]  But there was a pledge made at some point.
[05:36.050 --> 05:38.810]  At some point, there has to be a pledge to the station made.
[05:38.990 --> 05:40.610]  And you can't just copy a shirt.
[05:40.830 --> 05:41.650]  You know, the shirt is...
[05:41.650 --> 05:41.930]  You could forge one.
[05:42.470 --> 05:43.550]  You could forge a shirt.
[05:43.770 --> 05:44.850]  It's going to be a lot of trouble.
[05:44.950 --> 05:46.390]  These shirts are high quality, I'll have you know.
[05:46.550 --> 05:50.730]  It would probably cost you more than $25 just to make one if you were to make it yourself.
[05:50.730 --> 05:52.070]  Yeah, it would be ridiculous.
[05:52.450 --> 05:54.070]  I don't know what the point would be to do this.
[05:54.930 --> 05:59.070]  But yeah, you know, you can do it nice and easily now by calling 212-209-2950.
[05:59.190 --> 06:03.150]  And if you do it this way, you have the benefit, of course, of keeping WBAI on the air.
[06:03.250 --> 06:04.110]  And isn't that the point?
[06:04.410 --> 06:05.610]  Isn't that what it's all about?
[06:06.070 --> 06:07.130]  Keeping this place going.
[06:07.470 --> 06:08.350]  Imagine if this...
[06:08.350 --> 06:11.570]  If we had never gotten a show on this station, you know, back...
[06:11.950 --> 06:13.850]  Way back, before any of you guys were even here.
[06:14.290 --> 06:15.190]  I was the only one.
[06:15.190 --> 06:19.790]  And we would never have been able to talk about all the things we've talked about over the years.
[06:20.130 --> 06:21.350]  It's approaching 20 years.
[06:21.410 --> 06:21.910]  Can you believe that?
[06:23.150 --> 06:23.950]  So that...
[06:23.950 --> 06:24.550]  You're getting old.
[06:25.350 --> 06:26.470]  I don't think...
[06:26.470 --> 06:28.170]  I don't feel it every single day.
[06:28.170 --> 06:29.030]  It's unbelievable.
[06:30.270 --> 06:33.250]  These young whippersnappers these days, they just don't understand.
[06:33.550 --> 06:36.710]  They don't understand the past, how it used to be, what the phone system used to sound like.
[06:36.710 --> 06:39.050]  But they can understand if they get these DVDs.
[06:39.090 --> 06:39.630]  That's right.
[06:39.830 --> 06:40.230]  That's right.
[06:40.250 --> 06:41.410]  You can get as cranky as I'm getting.
[06:42.210 --> 06:45.610]  212-209-2950 is the phone number.
[06:46.110 --> 06:51.530]  And most importantly, of course, you're supporting the station, making sure that we'll be here for another 20 years, God forbid.
[06:51.750 --> 06:52.290]  No, we'll be here.
[06:52.470 --> 06:52.750]  We will.
[06:52.910 --> 06:53.730]  Not going anywhere.
[06:54.730 --> 06:56.890]  212-209-2950.
[06:57.430 --> 07:00.930]  In the news this week, anything fun you guys have to share?
[07:01.550 --> 07:04.770]  You hear about the hostage crisis in Phoenix at the 2600 building?
[07:05.470 --> 07:05.870]  What?
[07:06.230 --> 07:07.230]  Yeah, I'll pass it...
[07:07.230 --> 07:09.790]  Well, I'll read it first, then I'll pass it around for the listeners.
[07:10.130 --> 07:11.070]  Show the picture on the air.
[07:11.730 --> 07:12.910]  I'm holding it now.
[07:14.130 --> 07:19.350]  KPHO Phoenix had something on their website about this, and I imagine all the Phoenix TV stations were doing something.
[07:19.870 --> 07:23.970]  The headline was, Gunmen holding multiple hostages in Central Phoenix, two released.
[07:24.210 --> 07:31.670]  And the first line of the story, the hostage situation is still going on tonight down at the 2600 building on Central, just south of Thomas.
[07:32.330 --> 07:36.010]  Well, I understand that the hostage situation was resolved peacefully.
[07:36.450 --> 07:38.210]  I didn't know that we had a building.
[07:38.210 --> 07:39.390]  Here's the thing.
[07:39.530 --> 07:42.510]  Okay, we hired a PR firm to help with...
[07:42.510 --> 07:48.250]  No, it was all good intention to help with our image, because we have an image problem in the Southwest, apparently.
[07:49.830 --> 07:56.750]  And there was a miscommunication, and they thought that they could just be creative and anything to get our name in the paper.
[07:56.750 --> 07:57.970]  Was it worth what you paid?
[07:58.510 --> 07:59.910]  I talked to them the next day.
[08:00.170 --> 08:02.750]  I sort of made it clear what was acceptable, what wasn't.
[08:02.850 --> 08:08.530]  Taking hostages, no, that's above the line, or not above the line, across the line.
[08:09.030 --> 08:10.310]  Good thing they know you didn't find it.
[08:10.310 --> 08:10.850]  Honest mistake.
[08:10.910 --> 08:11.490]  Anybody could have made it.
[08:11.510 --> 08:12.850]  I thought you had learned your lesson.
[08:12.990 --> 08:21.970]  I mean, on the last issue of 2600 Magazine, on the back page, you have the probation department located on the 2600 building.
[08:22.070 --> 08:23.210]  I forget what city it's in.
[08:23.210 --> 08:27.630]  Yeah, that number just seems to attract legal things and illegal things, too.
[08:27.630 --> 08:31.990]  And we have publicly funded hostage-taking and private enterprise hostage-taking.
[08:32.190 --> 08:34.570]  It all happens in 2600 buildings.
[08:34.850 --> 08:37.210]  At least we're not making jokes about heroin addicts this week.
[08:38.110 --> 08:43.010]  Let's thank the people who pledged last time, two weeks ago.
[08:43.150 --> 08:46.690]  We thanked some of you before, so please don't be offended if we thank you a second time.
[08:47.210 --> 08:49.970]  But we couldn't make out who we thanked and who we didn't, so we're just going to thank everybody.
[08:50.090 --> 08:52.870]  And if you're not on this list, I'm not sure why that would be.
[08:53.210 --> 08:55.170]  It could be because they chose to be anonymous.
[08:55.450 --> 08:56.110]  Yeah, that's true, too.
[08:56.310 --> 08:57.410]  Could be because they didn't pledge.
[08:57.830 --> 08:59.390]  That might be another reason.
[08:59.430 --> 09:00.410]  And you can fix that.
[09:00.490 --> 09:05.770]  You can fix that by calling and pledging, and then we'll thank you, either this show or next show, or maybe both.
[09:06.610 --> 09:10.190]  The number to call, by the way, is 212-209-2950.
[09:10.330 --> 09:14.090]  Yes, and I see one person is on that bank of phones right now.
[09:14.230 --> 09:14.450]  It's not enough.
[09:14.630 --> 09:15.370]  It's not enough, no.
[09:15.450 --> 09:15.810]  It's not enough.
[09:15.810 --> 09:19.850]  But I think once people hear what we're about to play, they'll be charging for the phones.
[09:20.070 --> 09:22.490]  And there might even be a circuit overload somewhere.
[09:23.250 --> 09:25.630]  Okay, so we want to thank these people for the generous pledges.
[09:25.770 --> 09:26.770]  Arthur from Port Washington.
[09:27.210 --> 09:29.830]  Bug Dave from Grosse Pointe City, Michigan.
[09:29.830 --> 09:33.190]  Uh, David from Crystal Bay, Minnesota.
[09:33.530 --> 09:35.050]  Christopher from Amityville.
[09:35.330 --> 09:36.150]  David from Brooklyn.
[09:36.850 --> 09:39.090]  John from Plymouth Meeting, that's in Pennsylvania.
[09:39.550 --> 09:41.410]  Andrew from Kamoka, Ontario.
[09:41.690 --> 09:42.650]  I remember we mentioned that one.
[09:43.270 --> 09:44.650]  Uh, Jeff from Columbus, Ohio.
[09:44.950 --> 09:45.910]  Alan from New York.
[09:46.370 --> 09:48.110]  Punker Bob from Jersey City.
[09:48.670 --> 09:50.450]  Pap from Linwood, Washington.
[09:51.070 --> 09:52.390]  Brad from Brentwood.
[09:52.690 --> 09:55.610]  And Thomas from Goshan, New York.
[09:56.130 --> 09:59.590]  Thank you all so much for making last Pledge Drive, Pledge Show.
[09:59.590 --> 10:00.150]  Go away success.
[10:00.850 --> 10:01.750]  And it really was.
[10:02.050 --> 10:04.490]  When we walk out the door, people applaud us.
[10:04.890 --> 10:05.830]  It's kind of nice.
[10:06.230 --> 10:06.990]  Kind of embarrassing.
[10:07.110 --> 10:07.410]  We applaud them.
[10:07.630 --> 10:08.450]  We try.
[10:08.630 --> 10:08.890]  We try.
[10:09.730 --> 10:13.390]  Um, okay, any other, uh, bits of news before we go into this special feature?
[10:13.710 --> 10:19.270]  Well, the, the HOPE conference is coming up, and, uh, we've managed to get recognized by the city of New York.
[10:19.550 --> 10:28.350]  A official spokesman for the city, someone named Angela Allen, said, Despite the cold weather, more than 2,000 concerned New Yorkers are taking part in HOPE 2006.
[10:28.970 --> 10:31.270]  Well, actually, the name of the conference is HOPE number six.
[10:31.430 --> 10:34.550]  Well, you know, the city of New York is not necessarily the most accurate.
[10:34.710 --> 10:35.890]  I'm just happy we got it mentioned.
[10:35.990 --> 10:38.050]  Also, it's in July, and I hope it isn't cold.
[10:38.910 --> 10:40.890]  Well, yes, but she said this just the other day.
[10:40.890 --> 10:44.330]  That's the best of the story, because I don't think you really are filling us in on, completely on this.
[10:44.570 --> 10:49.810]  All right, okay, I was going to take advantage of this by, by selectively leaving out part of it.
[10:50.190 --> 10:57.670]  Turns out that HOPE 2006 is the, the count of the homeless that the city does every, every year, except last year would have been HOPE 2005.
[10:58.250 --> 11:00.170]  This year was HOPE 2006, so.
[11:00.270 --> 11:03.590]  And I'll bet they just want the website HOPE.net, but too bad we have it.
[11:03.590 --> 11:10.330]  And if you go to HOPE.net, you'll find out all about the conference that is coming up in July.
[11:10.550 --> 11:11.990]  And actually, we're organizing it now.
[11:12.050 --> 11:23.950]  In fact, if you're interested in being part of the network operations, which is a very important part of the conference, that's where we connect people to the outside world and have an internal network, come to the 2600 meeting this Friday coming up.
[11:23.970 --> 11:27.050]  That's Friday from 5 to 8 p.m.
[11:27.130 --> 11:28.370]  in the Citigroup building.
[11:28.370 --> 11:34.430]  That's the one with the slanty roof in New York City on 53rd Street between Lexington Avenue and 3rd Avenue.
[11:35.530 --> 11:36.770]  And just come on by.
[11:36.890 --> 11:39.710]  Just go to the lobby, and you'll see all the security guards watching us.
[11:39.730 --> 11:40.230]  That's what they do.
[11:41.210 --> 11:42.830]  Lately, there's been cops watching us, too.
[11:42.910 --> 11:44.030]  I don't know what they're...
[11:44.030 --> 11:45.950]  It's a homeland security thing, I think.
[11:46.090 --> 11:50.310]  But don't let that throw you off, because no one gets hassled there.
[11:50.310 --> 11:52.170]  I mean, you know it's a very secure building.
[11:52.630 --> 11:55.050]  You can go there and feel perfectly safe.
[11:55.170 --> 11:59.790]  Well, you don't have to show ID to get in, which was something that they were doing for a little while, which we raised the roof about.
[11:59.790 --> 12:02.490]  And since they liked that roof, they stopped doing it.
[12:02.650 --> 12:10.390]  But they do ask you to put your bags through a little X-ray bomb-type scanner device.
[12:10.590 --> 12:12.670]  Can we say on the air the giant security hole?
[12:14.070 --> 12:14.470]  Sure.
[12:14.710 --> 12:17.090]  Which is that they don't check anything that's not in a bag?
[12:17.910 --> 12:18.310]  Yeah.
[12:18.310 --> 12:20.190]  So I guess if you come in strapped with...
[12:20.690 --> 12:21.410]  Okay, fine.
[12:21.490 --> 12:21.910]  But you know what?
[12:21.950 --> 12:23.650]  There are security holes everywhere.
[12:23.950 --> 12:27.650]  They were doing something that was pretty funny for a while when they first implemented the X-ray security.
[12:27.650 --> 12:29.030]  I don't think we talked about this on the air.
[12:29.330 --> 12:32.050]  But do you remember when they were first doing it?
[12:32.130 --> 12:39.890]  They had these little green dots that they put on the bag to let the security personnel that they knew that they had scanned it already.
[12:40.290 --> 12:42.790]  And so we went around the block to...
[12:42.790 --> 12:47.850]  I think it was a Kinko's or something like that and bought these little dots and stuck them on all their bags so that...
[12:47.850 --> 12:51.090]  But you see, the thing is, we refer to these things as security holes.
[12:51.090 --> 12:56.290]  And we almost forget that a year or two ago, these things didn't even exist.
[12:56.350 --> 12:58.230]  And we didn't consider that a security hole.
[12:58.330 --> 12:59.530]  We consider that freedom.
[12:59.810 --> 13:04.770]  We consider that not having to worry about all this nonsense of being checked and double-checked everywhere.
[13:06.110 --> 13:07.130]  So I don't know.
[13:07.150 --> 13:08.630]  I just don't want to go into that mentality.
[13:08.730 --> 13:09.390]  I should clarify.
[13:09.490 --> 13:14.750]  I was speaking from the perspective of the people who think this actually accomplishes something, not from my own perspective.
[13:14.970 --> 13:18.890]  Because on the radio, they can't see when you hold up your two fingers and do the quote thing.
[13:18.890 --> 13:20.250]  This, they can't see.
[13:20.270 --> 13:20.810]  That, yeah, what I'm doing.
[13:21.030 --> 13:21.270]  Right.
[13:21.410 --> 13:22.050]  They can't see that.
[13:22.190 --> 13:22.310]  No.
[13:23.530 --> 13:23.970]  Okay.
[13:24.130 --> 13:27.450]  This is actually a piece of mail that went to the other radio show off the wall.
[13:27.630 --> 13:31.510]  But it was so good, or so apropos for this program, I decided to read it here.
[13:32.130 --> 13:41.350]  As many people are still skeptical of the legality and necessity of the NSA wiretapping program, I have a suggestion for Mr. Bush, a national do-not-spy list.
[13:42.070 --> 13:47.710]  That would be a government-maintained database of citizens on whom spying is not necessary.
[13:48.290 --> 13:58.410]  All you have to do to sign up is provide your name, address, email, which is optional, a list of your friends, the contents of your bookshelf, and several places other than your home where you are likely to be located.
[13:59.390 --> 14:00.450]  That's from Illuminator.
[14:00.570 --> 14:01.730]  And that's a very good idea.
[14:02.450 --> 14:05.430]  And probably be about as useful as the do-not-call list.
[14:07.750 --> 14:10.970]  Yeah, well, don't boulder yourself over with enthusiasm there.
[14:11.050 --> 14:12.410]  I have nothing to say.
[14:12.550 --> 14:14.070]  I'm in awe of the proposal.
[14:14.310 --> 14:15.430]  I should point out Bernie S.
[14:15.430 --> 14:15.510]  S.
[14:15.510 --> 14:16.210]  is not with us today.
[14:17.130 --> 14:18.450]  We didn't introduce everybody, did we?
[14:18.750 --> 14:18.890]  No.
[14:19.110 --> 14:20.270]  Okay, well, Jim, that's you.
[14:20.390 --> 14:20.930]  Yes, that's me.
[14:21.130 --> 14:22.010]  And we have Mike.
[14:22.390 --> 14:22.750]  Yes.
[14:22.870 --> 14:23.550]  We have Redbird.
[14:23.750 --> 14:24.090]  Good evening.
[14:24.250 --> 14:24.970]  We have Arseny.
[14:25.070 --> 14:25.250]  Hi.
[14:25.570 --> 14:26.850]  And we have Walter.
[14:27.170 --> 14:27.350]  Hey.
[14:27.570 --> 14:28.010]  How you doing?
[14:30.090 --> 14:34.790]  Okay, I guess I want to play the thing because it runs about 25 minutes.
[14:36.470 --> 14:41.350]  But I should point out, Walter, you've been around maybe longer than anybody else in the room except for me.
[14:41.450 --> 14:43.510]  I think I've been around even longer than you.
[14:43.510 --> 14:44.890]  Well, that's a good trick.
[14:45.030 --> 14:46.030]  I'd like to know how you did that.
[14:46.750 --> 14:48.930]  No, I've been around longer than you, Jim.
[14:49.530 --> 14:54.930]  What year, Walter, what year did you first come into, not these studios, but the old studios on 35th Street?
[14:55.270 --> 14:56.870]  I don't remember that, but I think...
[14:56.870 --> 14:58.510]  Was it before the first Hope in 1994?
[14:58.610 --> 14:59.290]  Oh, absolutely.
[14:59.370 --> 14:59.590]  Okay.
[14:59.630 --> 15:00.250]  Before the first Hope, yeah.
[15:00.250 --> 15:02.150]  Well, we didn't know you before the first Hope.
[15:02.190 --> 15:02.410]  No?
[15:02.630 --> 15:03.670]  Well, okay, you're right.
[15:04.010 --> 15:04.710]  Shortly before.
[15:04.810 --> 15:06.810]  Shortly before the first Hope, we knew you in 1994.
[15:07.430 --> 15:08.470]  Now, the rest of you guys, you're all...
[15:08.470 --> 15:11.850]  I was two years old when you started your first show in 1988.
[15:11.850 --> 15:12.810]  Oh, God.
[15:13.030 --> 15:13.630]  Isn't that insane?
[15:13.750 --> 15:14.150]  That's crazy.
[15:15.130 --> 15:16.690]  So I assume you weren't around then.
[15:16.810 --> 15:17.530]  No, no, I wasn't.
[15:17.610 --> 15:18.610]  Didn't have very many toddlers.
[15:18.690 --> 15:19.610]  I had other things to do.
[15:19.850 --> 15:21.410]  Yeah, toddlers in the studio didn't work.
[15:22.310 --> 15:28.050]  Mike, now, I guess you're number four then, because you were around since 2000, I believe.
[15:28.670 --> 15:29.810]  Yeah, that sounds about right.
[15:30.110 --> 15:30.390]  Okay.
[15:30.790 --> 15:41.130]  And interesting, too, I met you because of the lawsuit filed against 2600 by the MPAA and the digital copyright people and all those nice folks.
[15:41.150 --> 15:43.770]  Yes, I was, you know, suing you and...
[15:43.770 --> 15:44.790]  No, you were helping us.
[15:44.930 --> 15:45.850]  Oh, is that how it works?
[15:45.950 --> 15:47.530]  Back then, we were on the same side, yeah.
[15:48.750 --> 15:51.250]  And, in fact, we went to, what, Linux World?
[15:51.370 --> 15:53.190]  I didn't see you at Linux World, but you went to Linux World.
[15:53.290 --> 15:58.330]  I think we handed out pamphlets and told people to come to the 2600 meeting that same day.
[15:58.830 --> 16:00.590]  Is that how you came to the 2600 meeting?
[16:00.890 --> 16:01.710]  That sounds right.
[16:01.710 --> 16:05.710]  Okay, and then after the 2600 meeting, we handed out leaflets outside movie theaters.
[16:07.370 --> 16:08.250]  And then...
[16:08.250 --> 16:10.030]  There were a lot of leaflets involved, basically.
[16:10.190 --> 16:10.870]  Leaflets were everywhere.
[16:11.090 --> 16:12.310]  It was a leafleting year.
[16:12.510 --> 16:13.790]  But then you've switched...
[16:13.790 --> 16:15.610]  I've switched mediums to radio.
[16:15.850 --> 16:15.990]  Yeah.
[16:16.910 --> 16:20.810]  Well, then you came down to the show, I guess, several weeks afterwards.
[16:21.170 --> 16:25.130]  And then you two, Arseny and Redbird, when did you first start coming to the show?
[16:25.290 --> 16:27.850]  I met you because of the Metric Art Project.
[16:28.090 --> 16:29.810]  And the Max Stripe stuff and all that.
[16:29.810 --> 16:33.010]  And that was 2004 or 2005?
[16:33.650 --> 16:34.450]  Probably 2005.
[16:34.830 --> 16:34.990]  Okay.
[16:35.070 --> 16:37.570]  So that wasn't too long ago.
[16:37.810 --> 16:40.210]  And Arseny, I know you've been around for a while.
[16:40.390 --> 16:41.150]  Yeah, I've been around.
[16:41.390 --> 16:43.590]  But you hadn't actually come to the show until fairly...
[16:43.590 --> 16:44.770]  No, I used to go to the meetings.
[16:44.770 --> 16:46.510]  And I recommend going to the meeting.
[16:46.710 --> 16:47.550]  It's this Friday.
[16:47.950 --> 16:48.470]  We said it already.
[16:48.650 --> 16:58.870]  So what we've done, basically, is frightened you into realizing how networking works and how a casual acquaintance can lead to hardcore conspiracy a few years down the road.
[17:00.430 --> 17:01.930]  We've been involved in this show off the hook.
[17:02.370 --> 17:03.970]  But it wasn't always this way.
[17:04.110 --> 17:05.870]  We had different people involved over the years.
[17:05.990 --> 17:09.150]  We had fiber optic back in the early 90s.
[17:09.370 --> 17:11.290]  Of course, Bernie S has been on throughout.
[17:12.790 --> 17:15.130]  He can't join us tonight because he's busy working.
[17:15.270 --> 17:18.250]  But he features prominently in these clips that we're about to play.
[17:19.550 --> 17:21.530]  And we also had all sorts of other people.
[17:21.650 --> 17:22.650]  We had Isaac here for a while.
[17:22.790 --> 17:23.310]  We had Phil.
[17:23.490 --> 17:27.050]  We had different people coming in and out as the years went by.
[17:27.490 --> 17:38.330]  And what you're going to hear are basically a selection of highlights of things that have happened, monumental things that have happened in the course of the years on the air.
[17:38.550 --> 17:39.830]  So much we didn't get to.
[17:39.970 --> 17:42.790]  But you'll hear John Markoff when he was in the studio.
[17:43.010 --> 17:43.470]  That's right.
[17:43.530 --> 17:45.390]  He was an in-studio guest at one point.
[17:46.230 --> 17:50.110]  You'll hear the very first phone call made by fiber optic when he was still a listener.
[17:51.050 --> 17:54.510]  And it's kind of funny because I think it was also the first time he'd ever been on the radio.
[17:54.510 --> 17:59.650]  And when you're on the radio for the first time it's kind of hard to get your thoughts out.
[17:59.770 --> 18:02.330]  So just playing that is kind of a funny thing.
[18:02.410 --> 18:13.750]  But then you'll hear him on the air afterwards and you realize how much you can develop and get your thoughts together and be somebody that all sorts of other people look up to and listen to.
[18:14.830 --> 18:17.530]  My case is the exception of course.
[18:18.010 --> 18:24.950]  And then you'll hear part of the Bernie S saga when he was arrested, thrown in prison, and pretty much tortured.
[18:26.810 --> 18:32.170]  Y2K, all the fun we have with Y2K and 9-11 and even what happened here at the radio station.
[18:32.450 --> 18:36.230]  The coup that took the radio station from us for a year.
[18:37.110 --> 18:39.070]  Although we were still on the air during that year.
[18:39.330 --> 18:40.430]  Interesting period of time.
[18:40.870 --> 18:43.090]  So we're going to play that.
[18:43.910 --> 18:47.050]  Excerpts from our DVD set which you can get the full set.
[18:47.290 --> 18:48.050]  Lifetime subscription.
[18:49.270 --> 18:50.810]  A whole bunch of DVDs.
[18:50.810 --> 18:56.910]  It's broadcast quality by calling 212-209-2950 making a pledge of $100 for everything.
[18:56.910 --> 18:58.050]  All the DVDs.
[18:58.750 --> 19:00.770]  If you want TV Be Gone instead...
[19:00.770 --> 19:02.970]  You could even...
[19:02.970 --> 19:08.550]  The DVDs are broadcast quality so you could even start up a station that plays old off the hooks.
[19:08.670 --> 19:09.130]  You could do that.
[19:09.210 --> 19:13.190]  You could do what I did last night and piece together all sorts of things like this.
[19:13.550 --> 19:20.570]  I went into the files and I simply looked for interesting bits and put them all together and before I knew it I had this interesting little time capsule.
[19:20.990 --> 19:22.730]  So we all have that ability.
[19:23.570 --> 19:27.350]  So yeah, now everybody who pledges 25 and above gets the off the hook t-shirt.
[19:27.990 --> 19:29.250]  75 and above...
[19:29.250 --> 19:33.750]  Actually, 75 is the TV Be Gone the device that allows you to turn off TV sets anywhere you go.
[19:34.330 --> 19:35.930]  100 is the DVD set.
[19:36.210 --> 19:38.110]  150 is all of the above.
[19:39.050 --> 19:39.550]  All right.
[19:39.970 --> 19:42.330]  Let's go into the special piece.
[19:42.630 --> 19:50.150]  Again, this will run about 25 minutes or so and it's kind of a time capsule history of Off the Hook.
[19:51.570 --> 19:53.890]  212-209-2950.
[19:56.050 --> 19:58.450]  This is Off the Hook, the telephone program.
[19:58.670 --> 20:00.670]  A presentation of WBAI.
[20:00.870 --> 20:02.870]  I'm your host, Emmanuel Goldstein.
[20:06.130 --> 20:09.010]  A lot of telephone people seem to be into shortwave as well.
[20:09.130 --> 20:10.150]  I've wondered about that.
[20:10.330 --> 20:12.150]  That's where it all kind of got started.
[20:12.370 --> 20:13.850]  You know, good old Marconi and his boys.
[20:14.050 --> 20:14.330]  Uh-huh.
[20:14.550 --> 20:15.970]  Now, Louie from Brooklyn, do you want to stay on?
[20:16.150 --> 20:16.690]  Yeah, sure, wouldn't I?
[20:16.690 --> 20:23.690]  Okay, we have five people on the line and I must warn you, perhaps the quality will get worse as we add people.
[20:23.830 --> 20:24.890]  We have a maximum of ten.
[20:25.090 --> 20:26.010]  Let's go for the bingo.
[20:26.090 --> 20:28.310]  We're halfway there, so let's go to number six.
[20:28.850 --> 20:30.050]  Good evening, you're on the air.
[20:30.290 --> 20:32.030]  Hi, this is George from Queens.
[20:32.230 --> 20:32.930]  George from Queens.
[20:33.010 --> 20:34.490]  We have just about all the boroughs represented.
[20:34.650 --> 20:36.550]  I can barely hear you guys.
[20:36.670 --> 20:37.830]  Okay, we're starting to have trouble.
[20:38.010 --> 20:44.490]  Well, I think I've turned up my radio just a tiny bit so I can get some clarity here.
[20:46.290 --> 20:48.990]  But I just want to say that, first of all, I want to say hi, Amy.
[20:49.110 --> 20:50.310]  I've heard you on other shows before.
[20:50.450 --> 20:50.950]  Hi, George.
[20:50.950 --> 20:52.950]  You're coming in loud and clear on my line.
[20:53.090 --> 20:53.610]  Oh, that's cool.
[20:53.710 --> 20:54.750]  Now I can hear you just fine.
[20:55.290 --> 20:59.250]  I also just want to say that I'm a martial arts enthusiast as well.
[20:59.510 --> 21:00.310]  Oh, good.
[21:00.550 --> 21:01.450]  Go ahead, John Markoff.
[21:01.830 --> 21:08.150]  Well, just a comment that there has been an interesting technological war between the scramblers and the de-scramblers.
[21:08.150 --> 21:22.450]  There's a fairly lively underground, I don't know, industry or community, a little bit of both, of people who have essentially been engaged in electronic warfare with the scrambling industry.
[21:22.590 --> 21:26.770]  And clearly, the cable industry wants people to pay for their service.
[21:26.950 --> 21:32.030]  And if you can just stick a dish in your backyard and receive the stuff for free, they don't make any money off of you.
[21:32.450 --> 21:36.810]  And so they've increasingly scrambled more and more of the stuff that is broadcast.
[21:37.130 --> 21:45.910]  The FBI has actually been cracking down during the last, I think, two years on people who have modified the systems in various ways to get around the scramblers.
[21:46.430 --> 21:55.570]  And it's one of those sort of technological wars where one side scrambles and the other side comes up with sort of a counter-scrambling mechanism and it's gone for some time.
[21:56.310 --> 22:04.590]  There is a parallel between the people trying to de-scramble the TV pictures and the hackers.
[22:04.590 --> 22:07.690]  it's kind of the same rebelliousness.
[22:09.970 --> 22:23.410]  I'm not involved in that particular field, but I do see it, the outrage that how dare they scramble a program or how dare they prosecute me for just pointing my dish at the sky and receiving something.
[22:24.150 --> 22:42.910]  Yeah, I'd just like to say that I think one of the big problems these days is a lot of younger computer hackers are getting their hands on computers and modems and they're not learning actual ethics before they actually get online.
[22:45.430 --> 22:47.730]  The main problem with that is
[22:59.850 --> 23:01.210]  the fact
[23:09.270 --> 23:29.160]  what I'm trying to say is that I think that the public is being painted like a very bad picture of hackers and freakers because of the fact of the more destructive type hackers that are being made known to the public.
[23:29.160 --> 23:43.840]  Well, as we've been able to point out tonight the most destructive hacker of them all supposedly according to the press Kevin Mitnick a lot of the things that we heard about him simply aren't true and it stems from ignorance.
[23:44.060 --> 23:54.940]  Computer professionals for social responsibility have filed suit in federal court seeking information on the role of the Secret Service in the disruption of a meeting of computer users last November.
[23:55.240 --> 24:05.220]  The incident which occurred at the Pentagon has been described as an example of overzealous law enforcement activities directed against so-called computer hackers.
[24:05.620 --> 24:16.780]  On November 6, 1992 a group of people affiliated with the computer magazine 2600 were confronted by mall security personnel local police officers and several unidentified individuals.
[24:17.080 --> 24:22.060]  The group members were ordered to identify themselves and to submit to searches of their personal property.
[24:22.360 --> 24:27.320]  Their names were recorded by mall security personnel and some of their property was confiscated.
[24:27.420 --> 24:31.180]  However, no charges were ever brought against any of the individuals at the meeting.
[24:31.400 --> 24:35.540]  The Secret Service has not formally acknowledged its role in the November incident.
[24:35.540 --> 24:44.740]  However, a mall security official and the Arlington County police have said that Secret Service agents were present and directed the activities of the mall security personnel.
[24:45.020 --> 25:00.860]  Since January 25th, the new administration has been installing a domain on the internet known as house.gov and it's for the purpose, for the main purpose of email.
[25:02.040 --> 25:18.060]  And whether it's for internal use or whether it's so that our fine citizens of the internet can send our newly elected administration some electronic mail, it's being set up as we speak.
[25:18.240 --> 25:19.280]  That's I got another call.
[25:19.480 --> 25:19.960]  Good evening.
[25:20.260 --> 25:26.980]  Hi, I have a comment on something you talked about in the beginning of the show about mixing up numbers.
[25:27.340 --> 25:28.260]  Mixing up numbers.
[25:28.500 --> 25:37.360]  Yeah, I remember about five years ago I was on a call card phone that said if you're out of chain, use your bank card to make calls.
[25:37.520 --> 25:44.040]  Now, I assumed that that meant your 24-hour bank card and I used my 24-hour bank card number and it worked.
[25:44.200 --> 25:52.980]  And the reason why it worked is because my 24-hour bank card number probably was the same number as somebody's credit card number like Visa card number or something.
[25:53.060 --> 25:54.980]  Yeah, it probably fit the algorithm and that's all they checked.
[25:55.500 --> 26:01.160]  Yeah, because it said bank card meaning bank credit card and it didn't sort of state that.
[26:01.420 --> 26:04.600]  You made an honest mistake and you committed a federal crime in the process.
[26:04.920 --> 26:06.320]  No, I didn't.
[26:08.700 --> 26:09.720]  What shall we call?
[26:10.560 --> 26:11.520]  Let's call ourselves.
[26:14.620 --> 26:15.060]  Whoops.
[26:15.700 --> 26:17.380]  You're supposed to dial two-on-two first, right, New York?
[26:17.440 --> 26:17.580]  Yeah.
[26:17.720 --> 26:18.020]  Okay.
[26:19.900 --> 26:28.960]  I keep forgetting that doesn't really make any sense but let's see what happens.
[26:29.200 --> 26:30.480]  New York Telephone.
[26:30.620 --> 26:32.020]  Oh, what's going on here?
[26:33.560 --> 26:36.300]  I mean, you know, I wrote the checkout to 9X.
[26:36.600 --> 26:39.400]  I've been complaining about 9X all week.
[26:39.580 --> 26:43.740]  I haven't said a single bad thing about New York Telephone since January 1st because they don't exist anymore.
[26:44.480 --> 26:45.340]  But what do I see?
[26:45.420 --> 26:50.560]  I see New York Telephone vans, I see New York Telephone advertisements and tariffs and I hear New York Telephone on the phone.
[26:51.040 --> 26:51.900]  What's a person to do?
[26:52.200 --> 26:53.020]  All right, enough of this.
[26:53.920 --> 26:55.600]  Fiber, this is your last show.
[26:55.840 --> 26:56.380]  Yes, it is.
[26:56.400 --> 27:00.200]  At least for the next, well, how long do we estimate it's going to be that they'll lock you
[27:19.620 --> 27:22.680]  here to serve as an example and send a message.
[27:23.360 --> 27:26.420]  Those are their words, not mine, words I'll never forget.
[27:27.100 --> 27:34.960]  You see, a guy can't just run around with a mastery of esoteric technical knowledge, showing others how things work, where the problems are, and educating.
[27:35.980 --> 27:42.060]  That would be in direct conflict with truth, justice, and the American way, or in other words, deception, ignorance, and greed.
[27:42.540 --> 27:45.340]  Oh, and let's toss in national security for good measure.
[27:45.780 --> 27:46.020]  Okay.
[27:46.460 --> 27:46.980]  Good evening.
[27:47.100 --> 27:47.540]  You're on the radio.
[27:47.980 --> 27:48.600]  Hello, Emmanuel.
[27:48.880 --> 27:51.500]  It's Jim of Pam and Jim 94.
[27:51.880 --> 27:53.700]  Jim, you know, we owe you a lot.
[27:53.860 --> 28:03.560]  You really helped us with this conference, more than most people combined, with helping us print things up, just helping us organize and do registration.
[28:04.160 --> 28:11.040]  It's incredible how, you know, someone that you hadn't talked to two weeks ago ever is able to come through like this.
[28:11.360 --> 28:13.480]  Well, Flattery will get you help next year.
[28:14.700 --> 28:16.180]  Why does everybody say next year?
[28:17.100 --> 28:21.040]  Well, we figure if we say next year, we'll get one done in three or four years.
[28:21.180 --> 28:21.320]  Yeah.
[28:21.700 --> 28:28.300]  All right, we have a rather startling story coming out of Pennsylvania, which involves somebody that we know.
[28:28.860 --> 28:35.800]  And I'm sorry, I have rather lengthy facts here, which I'm going to have to plow through to get to the actual story.
[28:36.920 --> 28:40.960]  When something like this happens, it just eases up a lot of resources.
[28:45.580 --> 28:46.560]  Ah, here we go.
[28:46.740 --> 28:48.320]  Okay, sorry about that.
[28:49.240 --> 28:56.960]  Okay, now, I don't know how many people remember over the past couple of years, we've had a certain correspondent on the phone with us quite a few times named Bernie S.
[28:58.560 --> 29:05.740]  And apparently, some rather weird things have been going on in Pennsylvania that involved him.
[29:07.160 --> 29:17.240]  and unfortunately, he seems to be on the road towards some kind of smear campaign based on high technology and various other misperceptions.
[29:17.500 --> 29:20.360]  Much the same way that the fiber optic here was sent to prison.
[29:21.040 --> 29:21.700]  Bernie S.
[29:21.840 --> 29:23.180]  was recently arrested too.
[29:23.580 --> 29:30.000]  And the incident surrounding this is just kind of bizarre to say the least.
[29:32.460 --> 29:36.200]  You have a collect call from Bernie S.
[29:37.460 --> 29:40.720]  To accept the call, please dial 9 now.
[29:41.020 --> 29:45.580]  If you do not want to accept this call, please go ahead.
[29:45.800 --> 29:47.020]  You are now connected.
[29:47.920 --> 29:48.380]  Okay.
[29:48.700 --> 29:49.940]  Bernie S., this is Emmanuel.
[29:50.120 --> 29:50.440]  Are you there?
[29:50.820 --> 29:51.860]  Yes, Emmanuel.
[29:51.860 --> 29:53.760]  I am here in federal prison.
[29:53.920 --> 29:54.300]  Okay.
[29:54.720 --> 29:56.780]  Well, apart from that, it's good to hear your voice.
[29:57.240 --> 30:02.320]  Say hello to Sarlo, and also to Fiber Optic who are both here.
[30:02.680 --> 30:03.640]  Hello, Fiber.
[30:03.840 --> 30:04.200]  Hey.
[30:04.440 --> 30:04.660]  Hey.
[30:04.880 --> 30:10.900]  I guess I'm going through what you went through not much more than a year ago.
[30:13.700 --> 30:34.400]  Well, with this dramatic intro, I guess, is the best way to put it, what better way than to herald the coming of something new, something incredible, something that one might consider to be a milestone if you keep track of such things.
[30:35.920 --> 30:37.680]  I'm talking about...
[30:38.940 --> 30:40.360]  I'm talking about a book.
[30:40.720 --> 30:43.260]  That's right, a brand new book.
[30:44.100 --> 30:46.480]  A book that we knew was coming.
[30:47.360 --> 30:52.020]  A book we knew we had very little that we could do to prevent.
[30:53.200 --> 31:01.780]  But a book which, nonetheless, will turn the heads of many and change the lives of a few, I guess.
[31:02.320 --> 31:09.140]  The book centers around the events we first reported here back in, what was it, March?
[31:09.940 --> 31:17.780]  Earlier this year when Kevin Mitnick was caught by the authorities in North Carolina.
[31:19.940 --> 31:24.420]  and boy, oh boy, what a story it was.
[31:25.000 --> 31:28.440]  So good a story that you knew they'd write a book about it.
[31:28.500 --> 31:29.080]  Well, they did.
[31:29.420 --> 31:30.900]  The book is about to come out.
[31:32.300 --> 31:33.420]  Would you like to know the title?
[31:33.560 --> 31:37.920]  The title is called, get ready for this, Takedown.
[31:39.320 --> 31:52.400]  This week's show is going to be not so cheerful, not so happy, not so moisterous as we usually are because some things have just gotten extremely bad in the last couple of days.
[31:53.120 --> 32:19.280]  Over the last year and a half, of course, we've been telling you the story of Bernie S, how he's been imprisoned basically for possessing technology that many of us already have that you can easily get at Radio Shack and how the Secret Service has been pretty much merciless in their attacks on him and their way of trying to make him look like some sort of a terrorist and their success in getting
[32:19.280 --> 32:23.760]  him locked up in some of the worst prisons in this country with some of the worst convicts.
[32:24.080 --> 32:58.420]  Within 24 hours of arriving at Lehigh County for reasons that we still aren't really sure of and maybe the reasons themselves don't really matter, but he was attacked viciously, savagely by an inmate there and put into the hospital had most of his front teeth kicked out and basically was pretty much messed up big time this time.
[32:59.420 --> 33:00.320]  Conference in a minute, please.
[33:01.200 --> 33:01.360]  Bernie?
[33:01.600 --> 33:01.920]  Yeah.
[33:02.340 --> 33:03.340]  Okay, okay, we got him.
[33:03.460 --> 33:03.700]  Hey.
[33:04.180 --> 33:05.620]  Bernie, can you hear me?
[33:05.800 --> 33:06.760]  Yeah, can you hear me?
[33:07.160 --> 33:10.060]  Yeah, I can't tell you how sorry we are about what happened.
[33:10.060 --> 33:16.380]  Well, this phone system is very effective in keeping me from dialing any of the numbers that I'm normally dialing.
[33:17.240 --> 33:18.640]  Yeah, I can imagine.
[33:18.800 --> 33:22.600]  I mean, we've had so much trouble getting through, having you get through to us.
[33:23.460 --> 33:26.280]  Even the normal number that I call doesn't even work now.
[33:26.420 --> 33:27.680]  It's not that it doesn't work at your end.
[33:27.800 --> 33:30.280]  It's just somehow they're being blocked from the prison.
[33:31.040 --> 33:31.480]  Uh-huh.
[33:32.760 --> 33:33.120]  Anyway.
[33:33.500 --> 33:33.940]  How...
[33:34.440 --> 33:42.020]  The reason I sound the way I do for people who don't know is because my jaw is now wired shut because it's fractured in three places.
[33:42.880 --> 33:45.080]  We are going to do something about this.
[33:45.200 --> 33:46.860]  We're not just going to sit here and talk about it.
[33:46.920 --> 33:49.360]  We are going to stand up and do something.
[33:49.560 --> 33:50.560]  It absolutely has to be done.
[33:50.660 --> 33:54.600]  Now, I don't think there's very many good excuses not to get involved.
[33:54.740 --> 33:56.840]  Being afraid is no longer really a valid excuse.
[33:56.840 --> 33:57.680]  We're all afraid.
[33:57.780 --> 34:00.700]  We don't know what's going to happen, who's going to be victimized next.
[34:01.180 --> 34:10.380]  Farber, you're one of the few people that does have a decent excuse not to go down there, and that's because if you go down there they'll simply throw you back in prison because you're still on probation.
[34:10.580 --> 34:11.260]  Yeah, unfortunately.
[34:12.560 --> 34:13.600]  But, um...
[34:14.340 --> 34:15.380]  I can't...
[34:15.380 --> 34:18.320]  I can't imagine somebody not wanting to get involved at some point.
[34:18.420 --> 34:19.220]  I mean, it's really...
[34:19.220 --> 34:21.720]  It's no longer a hacker case.
[34:21.720 --> 34:25.300]  This is just a plain and simple human rights case.
[34:28.760 --> 34:31.240]  You've reached the 2600 voicemail system.
[34:31.460 --> 34:32.940]  To get involved in the Bernie S.
[34:33.020 --> 34:35.020]  protest, press 7 now.
[34:36.400 --> 34:36.920]  Yay!
[34:38.220 --> 34:43.300]  Ed has been granted an unconditional emergency release from prison as of 5 p.m.
[34:43.680 --> 34:46.500]  on Friday, September 13th.
[34:46.580 --> 34:48.000]  We're going to pick him up now.
[34:48.160 --> 34:49.660]  We'll give you more details later.
[34:49.880 --> 34:52.140]  Everybody, thanks for your support and your hard work.
[35:06.200 --> 35:07.620]  Is this actually working?
[35:07.780 --> 35:09.330]  Are we actually broadcasting over the radio?
[35:09.540 --> 35:10.390]  This is amazing.
[35:10.890 --> 35:18.120]  Okay, we're down here at the Puck building, which is downtown Manhattan on the corner of Houston Street and Lafayette with a special edition of Off the Hook.
[35:18.660 --> 35:25.020]  Off the Hook is a radio show that comes your way every Tuesday night at 8 o'clock on WBAI 99.5 FM.
[35:26.140 --> 35:41.060]  The only kind of radio station I think that would broadcast this kind of material and I'm very glad to be in the same city with such a station and I hope a lot of people come away from this conference with a sense that radio can be a very interesting medium if done properly.
[35:41.300 --> 35:43.640]  The things that come next are going to be rather interesting too.
[35:43.800 --> 35:46.120]  We're going to be voyaging throughout the land.
[35:46.280 --> 35:51.560]  In fact, there's a piece about this on our website if you know of an interesting place that we should stop in.
[35:51.720 --> 36:02.520]  We're making a little documentary of our own about what's happening with this whole Kevin thing with the film, with the movement to get him out of prison once and for all, to the overall mood about hackers in general.
[36:02.760 --> 36:10.420]  A first has finally happened here at WBAI where I am now doing the show Off the Hook from my car.
[36:10.580 --> 36:13.800]  Actually, it's not my car, it's a rental car, and I'm on my cell phone.
[36:14.360 --> 36:24.360]  And the reason for that is because I have so many things I have to do at once that I have to be on the phone in the car at the same time.
[36:24.520 --> 36:25.580]  So hopefully this will work out.
[36:26.260 --> 36:27.660]  Let me warn people.
[36:27.860 --> 36:28.620]  Are you still there?
[36:28.820 --> 36:29.020]  Yeah.
[36:29.480 --> 36:29.700]  Okay.
[36:30.060 --> 36:31.680]  I'm using Sprint PCS.
[36:32.000 --> 36:36.120]  You will hear something known as robot voice, which is one of their features.
[36:36.940 --> 36:39.380]  And that will happen right before I get disconnected.
[36:39.380 --> 36:41.600]  So that's probably going to happen a couple of times.
[36:42.080 --> 36:43.240]  A couple, yeah, right.
[36:43.720 --> 36:46.060]  Probably a lot of times, and you'll have to call me back each time.
[36:46.260 --> 36:46.560]  Okay.
[36:46.740 --> 36:50.640]  I'm sure that we'll be able to keep the show going now.
[36:50.880 --> 36:51.100]  Definitely.
[36:52.100 --> 36:52.520]  Okay.
[36:52.760 --> 36:55.460]  Any other Y2K things happening this week?
[36:55.520 --> 36:57.450]  This is really the last week Y2K things can happen.
[36:57.680 --> 36:57.860]  Yeah.
[36:59.100 --> 37:06.120]  Well, you're going to see Y2K things happening most of next year with February 29th and all that roll over.
[37:06.120 --> 37:07.450]  So, you mean, it's not over yet?
[37:07.560 --> 37:09.040]  We still have more dates to worry about?
[37:09.120 --> 37:11.140]  This is going to be a very long and prolonged time.
[37:11.140 --> 37:12.860]  Yeah, but the thing is, Isaac, nothing's happening.
[37:12.980 --> 37:13.520]  That's the thing.
[37:13.620 --> 37:24.820]  And I've been saying this now for a year that everyone's panicking, saying, oh, 9, 9, 99, that's going to be the first thing, and then January 1st, 1999, because that's a year from the date, and now January 1st, 2000, nothing's happening.
[37:25.000 --> 37:25.680]  There were some failures.
[37:25.880 --> 37:27.100]  There was nothing to think of.
[37:27.200 --> 37:27.520]  I mean...
[37:27.520 --> 37:28.980]  Well, you will feel this one.
[37:29.520 --> 37:30.040]  I will feel...
[37:30.040 --> 37:31.400]  Okay, tell me what's going to happen.
[37:35.740 --> 37:36.480]  Hazard a guess.
[37:36.700 --> 37:37.520]  Hazard a guess?
[37:37.780 --> 37:37.980]  Okay.
[37:38.380 --> 37:41.720]  Um, as close to being...
[37:41.720 --> 37:48.640]  As realistically as possible, you're probably going to see some minor failures in some convenience things.
[37:49.040 --> 37:49.980]  Like convenience stores?
[37:50.780 --> 37:51.220]  Perhaps.
[37:52.260 --> 37:57.160]  Basically, you walk into a store, and they'll be telling you, well, the cash register's down, we don't know what happened.
[37:57.420 --> 37:59.500]  And we don't know how to count, so we can't take your money.
[37:59.620 --> 38:13.280]  Well, very likely they're going to just have to go back to paper, which, unfortunately, some of their clerks may may not know how to do, but it will take a little more time, and you'll notice some very definite defects from it.
[38:13.740 --> 38:16.620]  This is just for January 1st, and the immediate days after.
[38:17.040 --> 38:28.140]  Well, somebody who certainly knows something about the difference between criminals and hackers is someone we've been talking about for many, many years here on this program.
[38:29.220 --> 38:35.520]  He's the center of the whole Free Kevin movement, and, of course, that would be Kevin Mitnick himself.
[38:35.520 --> 38:36.200]  Kevin, are you there?
[38:36.700 --> 38:37.260]  I'm here.
[38:37.560 --> 38:38.240]  How are you doing?
[38:38.740 --> 38:40.800]  Doing a lot better than I was a few weeks ago.
[38:42.100 --> 38:43.660]  Or a couple of years ago, even.
[38:44.000 --> 38:44.560]  Oh, yeah.
[38:44.700 --> 38:49.880]  Do you realize next week, a week from today, is the fifth anniversary of your being captured in North Carolina?
[38:50.540 --> 38:50.950]  Right.
[38:51.160 --> 38:53.450]  No, I fully am aware of that.
[38:53.580 --> 38:54.860]  That's really something.
[38:54.950 --> 38:58.900]  I don't think people realize how much has changed in those five years.
[38:59.020 --> 39:02.100]  I mean, when you first went in, the net was a completely different place, wasn't it?
[39:02.620 --> 39:08.460]  Yeah, I think the mosaic was at version 1.0, and people were using links.
[39:08.720 --> 39:13.460]  I mean, the internet is completely boomed while I was in custody.
[39:13.840 --> 39:17.450]  You know, there wasn't... I think there was very little e-commerce at the time as well.
[39:17.660 --> 39:20.140]  And, boy, I've got to tell you, yesterday was an exciting day.
[39:20.240 --> 39:22.640]  Today wasn't as exciting, but it was still very interesting.
[39:31.140 --> 39:36.780]  out with him, talked to him, been in a deposition with him, but I never saw him unleashed like that before.
[39:36.960 --> 39:44.520]  The way he completely, what I think, obliterated a witness from the other side, just asking these questions that completely...
[39:44.520 --> 39:50.820]  I don't know if it will reflect this in the court, but I thought it discredited what the person was saying in a really well-done way.
[39:51.040 --> 39:53.640]  And, wow, I'm still impressed by that.
[39:53.720 --> 39:55.960]  That's why I think people should come down and witness this.
[39:56.680 --> 39:57.360]  It's history.
[39:58.100 --> 40:11.960]  It's such a good feeling, you know, because we've been reading all these motions that they make and transcripts of hearings, and it's very, you know, it must be all helpless because you're reading it and you're like screaming at the paper because what they're saying is utter nonsense,
[40:11.960 --> 40:22.220]  but being there in court and being able to, you know, hear testimony and then pass a note and having your question get asked like 15 minutes later...
[40:22.220 --> 40:23.100]  Well, we are the defendants.
[40:24.240 --> 40:25.840]  It's extremely gratifying.
[40:26.820 --> 40:35.580]  What's more gratifying to me is just knowing there are people outside, you know, singing DMCA to the tune of YMCA and holding picket signs all day long.
[40:35.680 --> 40:38.740]  I mean, I think everybody who cared about the case was there yesterday.
[40:38.860 --> 40:39.920]  I just felt that outside.
[40:40.180 --> 40:41.400]  At some point, they all stopped by.
[40:41.520 --> 40:44.840]  A lot of people are kind of flustered.
[40:44.860 --> 40:58.780]  I'm among them because we have not been able to devote time to the topics, the important topics that Off the Hook is all about, but let me just say that there is no more important topic than the future of the radio station.
[40:59.080 --> 41:06.240]  It's, I suppose, comparable to if we were doing this radio program on, say, a boat, and the boat was springing a leak.
[41:06.340 --> 41:07.600]  Well, would we continue doing the show?
[41:07.720 --> 41:10.280]  Would we try to stop the leak or at least let people know about it?
[41:10.760 --> 41:16.780]  You know, it's kind of a self-preservation type of a thing and something that we don't take very lightly here.
[41:17.460 --> 41:32.120]  today is a very interesting day in that as we speak currently at this very moment, there are people outside the radio station outside in the street and outside in the hallway that have come here for a local advisory board meeting.
[41:32.280 --> 41:38.820]  They have not been allowed in the radio station, which is part of the new policy of not letting a local advisory board meet here.
[41:39.220 --> 41:40.950]  That has resulted in a confrontation.
[41:40.950 --> 41:42.520]  There are police everywhere.
[41:42.720 --> 41:44.180]  There are police inside the station.
[41:44.180 --> 41:45.180]  I was shocked.
[41:45.260 --> 41:46.200]  I took a couple of pictures of them.
[41:46.280 --> 41:53.960]  They were actually inside the studios, and it was really not a very good thing to have greet me as I came in today.
[41:54.450 --> 41:59.180]  As I speak, there are several dozen people camped out by the elevators chanting.
[41:59.480 --> 42:03.060]  We're going to be hearing from them in the next hour.
[42:04.040 --> 42:08.460]  Outside, even more people at 120 Wall Street, surrounded by police.
[42:09.260 --> 42:10.540]  This is heating up, folks.
[42:10.620 --> 42:13.400]  This is really getting to be quite a situation.
[42:14.920 --> 42:16.000]  We're out of time.
[42:16.400 --> 42:23.600]  I wish we had many, many more hours to talk to people and share experiences, but I do want to thank people for listening.
[42:23.820 --> 42:25.500]  I want to thank people for coming here.
[42:25.620 --> 42:30.950]  I'm glad everyone, so far, seems to be part of the BAI family, seems to have gotten through this.
[42:32.020 --> 42:35.280]  But, of course, I know that a lot of our listeners were in those buildings.
[42:37.880 --> 42:42.840]  And I want to thank everybody who has emailed us over at 2600 with their kind thoughts.
[42:44.180 --> 42:47.880]  Best wishes for our survival and future and that kind of thing.
[42:48.500 --> 42:50.880]  So we'll be back next week, hopefully.
[42:52.840 --> 42:54.800]  And, again, take care, everyone.
[42:55.500 --> 42:56.450]  Look to the small things.
[42:58.000 --> 42:58.900]  We'll see you later.
[42:59.020 --> 42:59.240]  Good night.
[42:59.240 --> 43:01.100]  I'm Amy Goodman.
[43:01.400 --> 43:04.920]  Well, the independent media movement has won a major victory.
[43:05.160 --> 43:15.110]  This weekend, the Interim National Board of the Pacifica Radio Foundation voted to restore dozens of fired and banned producers to New York station WBAI.
[43:15.760 --> 43:18.080]  The board also chose Dan Coughlin.
[43:18.080 --> 43:18.300]  Okay.
[43:18.460 --> 43:22.160]  And that's pretty much what we're talking about tonight and what we're focusing on.
[43:22.260 --> 43:25.420]  But I want to bring people back to that moment over this weekend.
[43:25.720 --> 43:36.960]  This weekend was one of the most incredible weekends I think I've ever seen, where basically hundreds and hundreds of people came together for the national board meeting, the first one to take place in New York in a very long time.
[43:36.960 --> 43:42.860]  We announced it last week on the radio, and last week at this time this place was a very different place.
[43:44.120 --> 43:47.060]  Today it just seems to be back to the way it was.
[43:47.080 --> 43:52.780]  It seems to be a happy place, a lot of people around, a lot of reunions, I guess, going on.
[44:03.290 --> 44:14.250]  We're live on WBAI New York, and we're live here at the hotel at the Fifth Hope Conference here in New York City, which began with a bang this morning and has been going ever since.
[44:15.030 --> 44:16.330]  Tons of people have shown up.
[44:16.450 --> 44:18.130]  We've had all kinds of good talks all throughout the day.
[44:18.350 --> 44:23.650]  And now a special edition of our weekly radio program coming to you live here for the next two hours.
[44:25.550 --> 44:26.390]  This is Emmanuel.
[44:26.390 --> 44:33.670]  I'm out here on a freighter, still the same freighter I was on last week at this time, except now it's not this time anymore.
[44:33.810 --> 44:42.270]  It's 2 o'clock in the afternoon for me because we've been making eastward progress, and we're about 1,000 miles off the coast of California right now.
[44:42.430 --> 44:45.210]  We're expected to arrive sometime on Friday.
[44:45.450 --> 44:52.530]  And it's been an amazing experience being on this thing for the past seven days with another couple to go.
[44:53.470 --> 44:57.830]  You just become part of this little community that's in the middle of the ocean.
[44:59.150 --> 45:18.070]  It's like a little mini apartment building that you kind of go upstairs and downstairs and see various familiar faces and kind of forget about the fact that you've got 350 18-wheel-sized pieces of cargo with you.
[45:18.290 --> 45:21.250]  I don't know what's in these, but we've all seen them.
[45:21.350 --> 45:26.290]  They go on the back of 18-wheel trucks, or they get stacked up by the shoreline.
[45:27.150 --> 45:34.130]  And these cargo ships are everywhere, and I just happened to find one of them that will get me a ride from California.
[45:34.610 --> 45:36.390]  It's one of the...
[45:40.500 --> 45:41.380]  Sounds fascinating.
[45:44.200 --> 45:46.060]  Or doesn't sound like much at all.
[45:46.540 --> 45:46.980]  Depending.
[45:49.040 --> 45:50.780]  I'm sorry, you sounded like a robot there.
[45:51.020 --> 45:51.440]  Did you say that again?
[45:51.440 --> 46:01.400]  We're just describing the difficulties hearing you, and it seems like the difficulties have reached their inevitable conclusion of disconnection.
[46:02.020 --> 46:03.440]  But we still have Bernie S.
[46:03.580 --> 46:04.100]  with us, yes?
[46:04.620 --> 46:10.680]  Yes, on a somewhat more reliable, but not much more reliable spring PCS connection in Philadelphia.
[46:10.940 --> 46:16.140]  Getting the DVD set, you'll hear virtually unlimited number of interesting things like this.
[46:16.720 --> 46:22.500]  So for a pledge of $100, you'll get a lifetime subscription every single program in high fidelity.
[46:23.560 --> 46:25.920]  Okay, well, that was actually us two weeks ago.
[46:26.120 --> 46:26.680]  That's cheating.
[46:26.720 --> 46:29.120]  Making the same pitch that we're making right now.
[46:29.220 --> 46:31.160]  But it just kind of brought us right up to the present.
[46:31.480 --> 46:32.460]  And yeah, we're back.
[46:32.540 --> 46:34.480]  We're back live here in WB...
[46:34.480 --> 46:35.220]  I've got to prove it.
[46:35.340 --> 46:37.520]  March 1st, 2006.
[46:38.040 --> 46:39.640]  You could easily paste that together.
[46:39.840 --> 46:40.560]  I guess I could have.
[46:41.340 --> 46:42.420]  What do you guys think of that?
[46:42.520 --> 46:43.340]  It's out of history right now.
[46:43.580 --> 46:43.620]  Oh, my God.
[46:43.720 --> 46:44.240]  Isn't that something?
[46:44.860 --> 46:45.120]  Wow.
[46:45.140 --> 46:46.040]  Do I sound that bad?
[46:46.140 --> 46:49.320]  Well, let's not get into the insults yet.
[46:49.700 --> 46:51.180]  We have after the show for that.
[46:51.320 --> 46:54.080]  But yeah, folks, that's just a little bit.
[46:54.180 --> 46:59.340]  That's just what I was able to throw together last night by going through all the audio files that are out there.
[46:59.480 --> 47:01.840]  And I brought back so many memories.
[47:01.980 --> 47:02.400]  Oh, yes.
[47:02.960 --> 47:04.240]  They can all be yours.
[47:04.560 --> 47:12.820]  If you give us a call and pledge $100, you'll get every single show in as high fidelity quality as possible.
[47:13.060 --> 47:15.080]  Granted, some tapes are older than other tapes.
[47:15.080 --> 47:18.160]  And we do the show on CD now, so it sounds much better.
[47:18.860 --> 47:23.820]  But you'll definitely get good quality out of the shows.
[47:23.820 --> 47:26.520]  212-209-2950.
[47:27.280 --> 47:35.360]  The pledge of $100 gets you everything, all the shows from 1988 up until the present and into the future.
[47:35.700 --> 47:37.500]  212-209-2950.
[47:37.500 --> 47:42.960]  And of course, we also have the Off the Hook t-shirt, which you'll get as our thank you for your pledge.
[47:43.360 --> 47:47.220]  Again, we're also offering the TV Be Gone for $75.
[47:47.720 --> 47:50.940]  And all of the above, $75, we've got a pledge for TV Be Gone.
[47:51.260 --> 47:56.000]  And the TV Be Gone and the DVD, and I've seen it so many times, I'm losing track myself.
[47:56.300 --> 47:58.100]  For $150, you'll get everything, right?
[47:59.020 --> 47:59.420]  Yes.
[47:59.580 --> 47:59.800]  Okay.
[48:01.300 --> 48:02.780]  Maybe we should say it again in order or something.
[48:02.780 --> 48:03.660]  Yeah, why don't you say it?
[48:03.700 --> 48:05.740]  Because I'm kind of tired of saying it, to be honest.
[48:05.760 --> 48:06.200]  Well, you know...
[48:06.200 --> 48:07.060]  I've said it so many times.
[48:07.200 --> 48:08.560]  It's important that people hear it, though.
[48:08.580 --> 48:09.320]  I'll say the phone number.
[48:09.440 --> 48:11.140]  212-209-2950.
[48:11.400 --> 48:12.340]  Country code 1.
[48:12.520 --> 48:13.340]  It's the easy part.
[48:13.500 --> 48:13.660]  Yeah.
[48:14.360 --> 48:18.180]  If you call that number, which is 212-209-2950.
[48:18.580 --> 48:18.900]  209.
[48:19.080 --> 48:20.880]  Well, however you say your...
[48:20.880 --> 48:21.600]  You said O as well.
[48:21.760 --> 48:23.440]  You know, you have no right to criticize.
[48:23.800 --> 48:24.760]  I've been saying zero.
[48:24.860 --> 48:25.860]  I've been trying to say zero.
[48:25.860 --> 48:29.860]  If you're only in the first part of the number, the exchange, you say O in the second part.
[48:30.700 --> 48:31.580]  You're inconsistent.
[48:31.960 --> 48:34.180]  Well, you can call 212-209-2950.
[48:34.380 --> 48:35.560]  I don't know why that is.
[48:37.440 --> 48:38.740]  And pledge your support.
[48:38.740 --> 48:43.720]  If you pledge your support in the amount of $25 or more, you will get an off-the-hook t-shirt.
[48:44.100 --> 48:51.200]  If you pledge $75, then in addition to the t-shirt, you will get a TV be gone and you can turn off televisions.
[48:51.720 --> 49:04.680]  If you pledge $100, you will get the off-the-hook shirt and every off-the-hook ever on DVD in high-fidelity audio coming to you for the rest of your life or our life or however it works.
[49:05.100 --> 49:16.080]  And if you're really greedy or really want to support the station or both and you pledge $150, you will get the t-shirt, the TV be gone, and the DVD set.
[49:16.220 --> 49:19.300]  Our goal for this hour is $1,000, and we've got a long way to go to get there.
[49:19.300 --> 49:22.760]  I realize we've been on twice before offering the same things.
[49:22.900 --> 49:30.100]  I'm just hoping that people who have not taken advantage of this yet jump in and do this because this really is the last chance.
[49:30.300 --> 49:33.800]  The marathon ends in a couple of days, and we're not on next week.
[49:33.900 --> 49:37.360]  There's a special that's on next week for International Women's Day, I believe.
[49:37.860 --> 49:40.380]  But we'll be on in two weeks with a regular program.
[49:40.480 --> 49:44.380]  So this really is your last chance to give us a call, 202-209-2900.
[49:45.840 --> 49:48.360]  And pledge, most importantly, pledge for the station.
[49:48.520 --> 49:52.360]  Because think of it, if this station wasn't here, all of what you just heard would not have been possible.
[49:53.000 --> 49:55.160]  All of that would have just never happened.
[49:55.560 --> 49:59.500]  Think of the history that we've made here at this place.
[49:59.720 --> 50:00.880]  This is just one program.
[50:01.380 --> 50:04.720]  You know, we're on the 24 hours a day, seven days a week.
[50:05.860 --> 50:10.120]  And there's all kinds of different sagas going on, all kinds of world events being covered.
[50:11.180 --> 50:14.220]  Radio continues to serve a vital function in society.
[50:14.460 --> 50:18.000]  And unlike when we first started, now we have a global reach.
[50:18.360 --> 50:22.420]  It used to be we just broadcast to the tri-state area, and that was everybody who was calling in.
[50:22.780 --> 50:27.780]  Then we started to expand and broadcast over the internet, and then that got better and better.
[50:27.900 --> 50:29.300]  Now we have listeners all over the world.
[50:29.300 --> 50:33.200]  So we're reaching out to all of you, 212-209-2900.
[50:33.400 --> 50:35.420]  Please give us a call and support the station.
[50:35.800 --> 50:41.280]  Keep it possible to have more historical events covered.
[50:41.480 --> 50:47.120]  I know from talking to the folks who take the pledges, who are probably sitting there kind of bored when no one's calling.
[50:47.300 --> 50:47.520]  Yeah, look at this.
[50:47.700 --> 50:48.420]  There's no calls on the line.
[50:48.460 --> 50:50.400]  Either that machine is broken or there's no calls on the line.
[50:50.400 --> 50:51.020]  How could that be?
[50:51.520 --> 50:57.420]  But I know from talking to them that they're always very pleased when someone from outside the tri-state area calls.
[50:57.420 --> 51:01.640]  It's really something that doesn't happen on all the other programs on this station.
[51:01.700 --> 51:02.100]  And you know what else?
[51:02.180 --> 51:04.120]  When the phone rings, they sit around this table.
[51:04.180 --> 51:05.720]  They all dive for the phone at once.
[51:05.800 --> 51:06.300]  Have you ever seen that?
[51:06.380 --> 51:06.820]  It's true.
[51:06.940 --> 51:07.700]  The dive for the phone?
[51:08.740 --> 51:17.660]  You have to be trained so you don't get hurt because if you hit the phone the wrong way with your stomach or something, it can ache for quite a while.
[51:17.740 --> 51:19.040]  I know from history.
[51:19.360 --> 51:23.540]  Someday the Olympic volleyball team will train at BAI's back room.
[51:23.540 --> 51:28.660]  It's not a bad idea because you really have to be kind of athletic to jump across the room like that.
[51:28.840 --> 51:33.040]  We have three calls on the line, 212, 209, 2900, down to two actually.
[51:33.420 --> 51:34.780]  I guess somebody got disenchanted.
[51:35.800 --> 51:43.660]  And we're hoping to bring the tally up to 1,000 by the end of the hour, which is only about 10 minutes away.
[51:43.840 --> 51:44.180]  10 minutes.
[51:44.280 --> 51:45.160]  And then it's all over.
[51:45.780 --> 51:48.020]  And 10 minutes from now you can't get these premiums.
[51:48.020 --> 51:48.500]  That's right.
[51:48.760 --> 51:49.060]  That's right.
[51:49.140 --> 51:54.860]  Now, do you guys want to go over any thoughts that you had from listening to the historical events of Off the Hook?
[51:55.480 --> 51:57.440]  Life has changed so much.
[51:57.520 --> 51:58.080]  It has, hasn't it?
[51:58.480 --> 52:00.920]  Individually as well as institutionally.
[52:01.080 --> 52:06.120]  We could have done a whole collage of just the way the phone system has changed.
[52:06.120 --> 52:08.940]  How the noises of making telephone calls and getting...
[52:08.940 --> 52:11.620]  Did you hear the crosstalk when Fiber Optic was calling in that time?
[52:11.620 --> 52:13.180]  And there was another line ringing.
[52:13.940 --> 52:14.340]  Yeah.
[52:14.660 --> 52:19.560]  I really enjoyed the quality of the cell phone calls decreasing as time progressed as well.
[52:19.620 --> 52:21.640]  Tell us about that because I thought I was just imagining that.
[52:21.660 --> 52:25.920]  Leading up to the satellite call that you were on at the end, which was really quite bad.
[52:26.220 --> 52:26.620]  Yeah.
[52:26.620 --> 52:27.900]  I was in the middle of the Pacific Ocean.
[52:28.240 --> 52:30.720]  But cell phone calls sounded better, didn't they?
[52:30.740 --> 52:31.640]  They sounded better.
[52:31.780 --> 52:32.120]  Absolutely.
[52:32.840 --> 52:33.060]  Wow.
[52:33.060 --> 52:37.620]  And we, I mean, we used to use amps, which was, you know, actual narrowband FM.
[52:37.900 --> 52:38.080]  Mm-hmm.
[52:38.180 --> 52:39.040]  High quality stuff.
[52:39.320 --> 52:39.540]  Yeah.
[52:40.180 --> 52:43.300]  And you used to be able to call the operator and get the operator.
[52:43.480 --> 52:48.680]  Now you get James Earl Jones and all kinds of other things that you have to dance around before you actually get to a human being.
[52:48.780 --> 52:49.960]  Sometimes you never get to a human being.
[52:50.440 --> 52:51.520]  It's gotten really frustrating.
[52:51.520 --> 52:52.920]  And we've been there to document it.
[52:52.960 --> 52:53.780]  We've been there to show you.
[52:53.860 --> 52:55.060]  We've been there to give you a voice.
[52:56.040 --> 53:00.300]  And most weeks we are able to take phone calls and people are able to say various things.
[53:00.460 --> 53:02.040]  We got to hear Rebel way back.
[53:02.040 --> 53:07.100]  And I think that was 1992 or something he was calling up about that.
[53:07.620 --> 53:10.780]  So, yeah, some people talk a lot more than others.
[53:10.900 --> 53:11.860]  But, you know, that's by choice.
[53:11.860 --> 53:15.940]  If you try, you'll get on and you'll get to say whatever is on your mind.
[53:15.980 --> 53:19.300]  Just like if you try now, you'll get through and your vote will count.
[53:19.580 --> 53:22.480]  You'll be able to take part in this place.
[53:22.740 --> 53:28.920]  You know, help this place be strong and continue because it's a brutal community out there as far as radio goes.
[53:28.920 --> 53:37.520]  It's actually one of the only places where you can call and have a very, very good shot of getting on the air and expressing your concerns or saying what you have in mind.
[53:37.660 --> 53:37.980]  Absolutely.
[53:38.180 --> 53:45.340]  I mean, that's never going to happen with, you know, any of the commercial stations, which they will remain nameless for now.
[53:45.340 --> 53:47.460]  But we don't know who they are.
[53:47.660 --> 53:51.320]  You know, if they air anything, it's because it's on tape or because they stage it themselves.
[53:51.340 --> 53:53.100]  But we're always live here.
[53:53.240 --> 53:53.980]  We're always human beings.
[53:53.980 --> 54:07.380]  Most stations, even that are live, have folks just screen the calls and make sure you fit whatever point that the host wants to portray, be it agreement or like the loony disagreement or whatever it is that the host wants.
[54:07.920 --> 54:09.040]  That's what you hear.
[54:09.880 --> 54:13.040]  On WBAI, we don't even really know how to do that.
[54:13.140 --> 54:16.000]  But we more importantly don't want to do that.
[54:16.040 --> 54:16.800]  It's not in our DNA.
[54:16.800 --> 54:20.640]  And it's really free speech radio, as they say.
[54:20.700 --> 54:21.780]  Four calls on the line.
[54:21.840 --> 54:22.220]  This is good.
[54:22.320 --> 54:23.700]  212-209-2900.
[54:23.780 --> 54:26.200]  Let's make that six because I think there's six people down there, right?
[54:26.320 --> 54:30.060]  And if four people are talking and two aren't, those two people are going to feel bad.
[54:30.300 --> 54:31.220]  You don't want that, do you?
[54:31.420 --> 54:32.880]  212-209-2900.
[54:33.000 --> 54:41.360]  Just because this is not a for-profit organization doesn't mean it's not a non-capitalist radio station.
[54:41.360 --> 54:42.960]  You vote with your dollars.
[54:42.980 --> 54:46.840]  If you like off the hook, vote with your dollars.
[54:47.120 --> 54:49.340]  That helps keep us on the air.
[54:49.500 --> 54:51.000]  It doesn't really work that way around here, though.
[54:51.100 --> 54:51.280]  I mean...
[54:51.280 --> 54:52.360]  To some extent, it does.
[54:52.640 --> 54:53.020]  But we don't...
[54:53.020 --> 54:55.900]  A show that attracts no attention...
[54:55.900 --> 54:58.240]  Well, the thing is, it's about support.
[54:58.460 --> 54:59.640]  But what we don't do...
[54:59.640 --> 55:01.200]  I just want to make sure we don't give the wrong impression here.
[55:01.220 --> 55:05.440]  We don't weigh this show made $6,000.
[55:05.440 --> 55:06.280]  This show made $5,000.
[55:06.500 --> 55:07.340]  Therefore, that show is better.
[55:07.440 --> 55:08.160]  That's not our way of thinking.
[55:08.160 --> 55:08.460]  No, no.
[55:08.480 --> 55:09.560]  That's not what I was trying to get at.
[55:09.560 --> 55:10.840]  But if no calls come in...
[55:10.840 --> 55:11.220]  Exactly.
[55:11.600 --> 55:15.040]  That's an indication that maybe there's not many people out there, if any people out there.
[55:15.120 --> 55:17.300]  And maybe people don't care enough to keep it going.
[55:17.440 --> 55:18.440]  So yeah, it does make a difference.
[55:19.100 --> 55:21.340]  Off the hook listeners traditionally have been extremely generous.
[55:21.500 --> 55:30.720]  And one thing, which I think is very important and vital to the success of the radio station, our audience tends to be much younger than the audiences of many shows.
[55:31.580 --> 55:37.040]  And that's something that BAI, we really need to focus on, is getting to the young people because they are the future.
[55:37.420 --> 55:42.360]  And so in that way, I think Off the Hook is one of the programs here that's sort of leading the way into the future.
[55:43.080 --> 55:44.360]  And you can help.
[55:44.540 --> 55:49.140]  You can express your vote by calling, pledging, becoming a part of it.
[55:49.220 --> 55:50.520]  212-209-2900.
[55:50.940 --> 55:55.960]  And Mike, I believe if they call, they actually can take part in elections at the radio station, correct?
[55:56.200 --> 55:56.980]  Yes, that's true.
[55:57.460 --> 55:57.960]  All right.
[55:57.960 --> 55:59.740]  I think you want me to say more about it.
[55:59.820 --> 56:01.800]  Well, you don't have to if you don't want to, but...
[56:02.260 --> 56:13.200]  You know, one of the things about WBAI is that, as you heard, there was this great struggle to regain control where the listeners and producers now basically control the station.
[56:13.400 --> 56:21.560]  And one of the ways that that is expressed is by voting for your representative on the local advisory board, which does meet in the station.
[56:21.700 --> 56:22.080]  That's right.
[56:22.220 --> 56:22.500]  That's right.
[56:22.500 --> 56:24.080]  They are welcome in the station.
[56:24.860 --> 56:25.740]  So that's...
[56:25.740 --> 56:26.420]  It all happened.
[56:26.520 --> 56:34.560]  The station was brought back into the control of the producers and the people who actually knew what they were doing because of the listeners.
[56:34.740 --> 56:35.880]  The listeners had a say.
[56:36.180 --> 56:37.180]  It wasn't because of sponsors.
[56:37.400 --> 56:40.360]  It wasn't because of, you know, Budweiser or anything like that or Microsoft.
[56:40.360 --> 56:42.760]  It was because listeners out there cared.
[56:42.840 --> 56:46.420]  And that's what you're doing here by giving a phone call, 212-209-2900.
[56:47.160 --> 56:49.760]  And we have five calls on the line, which is great.
[56:50.000 --> 56:52.060]  And I assume you're the 8 o'clock show.
[56:52.200 --> 56:53.260]  Okay, the 8 o'clock show is here.
[56:53.640 --> 56:55.100]  That airs in about four minutes.
[56:55.480 --> 57:00.080]  So this is really the last shot to get those off-the-hook DVDs.
[57:00.900 --> 57:01.980]  And think about it.
[57:02.000 --> 57:03.740]  Think of it as an investment for your old age.
[57:03.740 --> 57:05.700]  If nothing else, you'll have something to listen to.
[57:06.020 --> 57:18.000]  When all the radio stations have been taken off the air by the fascist government of the future, you will still have the DVDs that you can pop into your secret computer up in the attic and listen to when it used to be cool, right?
[57:18.140 --> 57:19.180]  Back in the old days.
[57:19.500 --> 57:20.160]  Think about that.
[57:20.360 --> 57:22.540]  And not only that, you can make copies.
[57:23.400 --> 57:24.480]  You're welcome to make copies.
[57:24.580 --> 57:26.300]  You're welcome to put this on your computer.
[57:26.540 --> 57:28.520]  You don't have to, like, fumble around with DVDs.
[57:28.560 --> 57:33.360]  You can just copy them and have a big library, put them on your iPod or whatever, go jogging and listen to our voices.
[57:33.740 --> 57:34.680]  That's what people do.
[57:34.740 --> 57:38.500]  And now you can listen to us in high fidelity from 1988 to the present.
[57:39.180 --> 57:40.500]  212-209-2900.
[57:41.160 --> 57:43.140]  I think that's pretty much all we have time for.
[57:43.140 --> 57:53.540]  I mean, just one of the things that really we say all the time but has really been driven home for me is that unlike a lot of the non-commercial stations, we don't have sponsors.
[57:53.840 --> 57:55.200]  And I've been...
[57:55.200 --> 57:56.940]  That seems like a contradiction there.
[57:56.940 --> 57:57.320]  It does.
[57:57.320 --> 58:02.200]  But I've been listening to some of the shows from NPR on the so-called podcast.
[58:02.840 --> 58:05.880]  And when you download it, they won't give you the whole show.
[58:06.000 --> 58:07.380]  They give you, like, a 10-minute clip.
[58:07.380 --> 58:13.280]  And before it, there's, like, a minute of talk about how wonderful this car company is.
[58:13.340 --> 58:15.460]  And at the end, they repeat the same car company.
[58:15.640 --> 58:19.180]  See, we like that except we talk about how terrible the company is before.
[58:19.180 --> 58:21.560]  And you're, like, here on BAI, I'm free to say, like, don't drive.
[58:21.560 --> 58:22.120]  It's terrible.
[58:22.320 --> 58:24.300]  And no one...
[58:24.300 --> 58:27.340]  No car company will stop funding us.
[58:27.460 --> 58:27.820]  I can say...
[58:28.260 --> 58:29.300]  I can say that.
[58:29.480 --> 58:30.040]  You just did.
[58:30.280 --> 58:30.760]  And I will.
[58:31.920 --> 58:34.800]  212-209-2900 is our telephone number.
[58:34.940 --> 58:35.480]  We got to go.
[58:35.660 --> 58:40.460]  We'll be back in two weeks with a regularly scheduled program.
[58:41.040 --> 58:42.820]  I want to thank everybody for their support.
[58:42.960 --> 58:44.100]  I want to thank everybody for calling in.
[58:44.220 --> 58:46.020]  And for being a part of this show over the years.
[58:46.020 --> 58:47.080]  It's made such a difference.
[58:47.420 --> 58:50.380]  It's given us something really important to contribute.
[58:50.680 --> 58:52.540]  And you can as well.
[58:52.940 --> 58:53.120]  Please.
[58:54.060 --> 58:55.720]  212-209-2900.
[58:55.720 --> 58:57.040]  Time is pretty much out.
[58:57.460 --> 58:59.320]  Stay tuned to WBAI New York.
[58:59.700 --> 59:00.820]  We'll see you in two weeks.
[59:00.940 --> 59:01.140]  Good night.
[59:04.190 --> 59:06.830]  I met a girl from Area 3.
[59:07.590 --> 59:09.970]  Told me she worked at Chicken Factory.
[59:10.230 --> 59:11.190]  This is so dawning.
[59:12.630 --> 59:14.330]  Of a new era.
[59:17.090 --> 59:19.950]  By 2 o'clock, few of rams and lists.
[59:20.750 --> 59:22.890]  Had to walk her home to Area 6.
[59:23.090 --> 59:24.050]  This is so dawning.
[59:25.430 --> 59:27.050]  Of a new era.
[59:30.010 --> 59:32.950]  Sticks and stones may break my bones.
[59:33.470 --> 59:36.010]  In Area 6 says throw bottles and discs.
[01:00:01.410 --> 01:00:02.730]  This is so dawning.
[01:00:03.850 --> 01:00:05.750]  Of a new era.
[01:00:08.710 --> 01:00:11.270]  Climbing stairs to the 14th floor.
[01:00:12.910 --> 01:00:14.410]  The key won't fit the floor.
[01:00:14.510 --> 01:00:15.450]  This is so dawning.
[01:00:16.510 --> 01:00:18.490]  Of a new era.
[01:00:21.290 --> 01:00:24.050]  She said she had a beautiful flat.
[01:00:24.590 --> 01:00:27.010]  We had to sleep on the mat.
[01:00:27.270 --> 01:00:28.230]  This is so dawning.
[01:00:29.470 --> 01:00:31.310]  Of a new era.
[01:00:34.210 --> 01:00:36.890]  Woke up and thought, this ain't exactly heaven.
[01:00:36.890 --> 01:00:38.330]  Oh, shit.
[01:00:38.630 --> 01:00:39.890]  Oh, shit, this is the re-assession.
[01:00:40.090 --> 01:00:40.970]  This is the dawning.
[01:00:45.890 --> 01:00:47.390]  This is the dawning.
[01:00:48.610 --> 01:00:50.530]  Of a new era.
[01:00:52.390 --> 01:00:53.790]  This is the dawning.
[01:00:55.030 --> 01:00:56.910]  Of a new era.
[01:00:58.590 --> 01:01:03.230]  This is the dawning of the new era.
[01:01:21.100 --> 01:01:28.960]  On WBAI 99.5 FM, the Caldwell Chronicle is on the air.
[01:01:29.240 --> 01:01:30.580]  I'm Earl Caldwell.
[01:01:30.840 --> 01:01:40.220]  Tune in for our broadcast every Friday, 3 to 5 p.m., right here on listener-supported Pacifica Radio in New York City.