[00:00.000 --> 00:06.440]  Adding that, according to the Palestinian law, the Palestinian parliament is the one who has the last call in this issue.
[00:06.600 --> 00:21.880]  Going to power alone, Hamas faces a number of challenges, including the security chaos that labeled the last few months and the financial crisis caused by the European Union's threats to withhold aid to the Palestinians unless Hamas recognizes Israel and denounces armed resistance.
[00:22.140 --> 00:26.500]  This is Manar Jibrin reporting for FSRN from IAMC.org from Bethlehem, Palestine.
[00:26.960 --> 00:34.100]  Six public school districts and three families filed suit against the state of Oregon Tuesday over inadequate school funding.
[00:34.320 --> 00:38.580]  And we'll have to hear about that at 11 o'clock as it's now 7 o'clock time for Off the Hook.
[00:44.450 --> 01:06.270]  The telephone keeps ringing So I ripped it off the wall I cut myself while shaving Now I can't make a cough We couldn't get much worse We would But the best is back The worst I hope that's understood But the little boom
[01:13.150 --> 01:14.410]  And a very good evening to everybody.
[01:14.490 --> 01:15.950]  The program is Off the Hook.
[01:16.810 --> 01:18.450]  And, uh, I also forgot to do a legal idea.
[01:18.630 --> 01:19.870]  This is WBAI New York.
[01:22.410 --> 01:27.470]  And we have a studio filled with people tonight and a lot of things to cover, so we need every possible minute we can get.
[01:30.150 --> 01:31.590]  Let's get right into it.
[01:31.650 --> 01:32.490]  First to the introductions.
[01:32.790 --> 01:35.930]  Uh, we have with us the regulars.
[01:36.050 --> 01:36.530]  We have Jim.
[01:36.670 --> 01:36.830]  Hi!
[01:37.430 --> 01:38.190]  And Mike.
[01:38.670 --> 01:39.050]  Hi.
[01:39.330 --> 01:40.290]  And Redbird.
[01:40.550 --> 01:40.850]  Good evening.
[01:41.710 --> 01:42.110]  Arseny.
[01:42.390 --> 01:42.610]  Hi.
[01:42.610 --> 01:43.690]  And Walter.
[01:43.990 --> 01:44.310]  Hey.
[01:44.710 --> 01:46.330]  And special guest Mojo.
[01:46.910 --> 01:47.270]  Hey.
[01:47.690 --> 01:48.530]  In from California.
[01:48.970 --> 01:49.990]  Welcome to the studios.
[01:50.590 --> 01:53.950]  And we have, uh, some other people too we will introduce a little bit later on.
[01:53.950 --> 01:55.770]  Of course, Bernie S joins us down from Philadelphia.
[01:55.770 --> 01:56.370]  How you doing, Bernie?
[01:56.610 --> 01:57.610]  On a landline.
[01:57.790 --> 01:58.730]  On a landline?
[01:59.730 --> 02:01.150]  What's... what magic is this?
[02:01.290 --> 02:04.330]  I just happened to be near a landline, so I thought I'd, uh, be on this way.
[02:04.730 --> 02:06.470]  You sound a little subdued.
[02:06.510 --> 02:07.730]  You still have the Hungarian flu?
[02:07.870 --> 02:09.350]  I still have the Budapest bug.
[02:10.350 --> 02:12.950]  Well, you'll be able to hear my coughing in full fidelity tonight.
[02:13.210 --> 02:19.050]  But, you, you, you got this at, uh, I mean, you, you know what this, you know what this is, right, Bernie?
[02:19.210 --> 02:27.170]  I mean, you were at CBIT, all right, which is, um, a conference for people that are all enthused about, about new technology and things like that.
[02:27.890 --> 02:41.470]  What better place to unleash something, some kind of a bug, that would affect some of the most intelligent people in the world, and maybe sort of rein them in a little bit before they can do too much damage to the repressive regimes around the world.
[02:41.610 --> 02:45.210]  I think this goes along very well with the conspiracy theories discussed last week.
[02:45.230 --> 02:45.750]  Not a conspiracy.
[02:45.910 --> 02:46.430]  Not a conspiracy.
[02:46.690 --> 02:46.850]  No.
[02:47.050 --> 02:48.430]  These, these are, these are facts.
[02:48.550 --> 02:50.670]  If you simply look at it, it makes perfect sense.
[02:50.790 --> 02:51.270]  That's what you gotta do.
[02:51.330 --> 02:53.210]  You gotta look at it, not be so close-minded.
[02:53.610 --> 02:53.810]  Okay.
[02:53.810 --> 02:59.530]  My God, if I can, if I can have a dollar for every time someone said that to me in the last week, we made the mistake.
[02:59.730 --> 03:13.230]  We made the mistake of poo-pooing a theory that somebody threw at us over the air, and my God, I'd like to, you know, not to devote too much time to this, but, you know, you sort of have to respond to some of the things people say, right?
[03:13.370 --> 03:14.970]  I mean, how much time is too much time?
[03:16.910 --> 03:17.830]  We're there already.
[03:18.190 --> 03:21.390]  Make, make the, the special signal when we've gone too far.
[03:21.590 --> 03:21.910]  All right.
[03:21.910 --> 03:22.290]  Yeah.
[03:22.750 --> 03:23.570]  Not now.
[03:24.170 --> 03:25.590]  When we get there, when we get there.
[03:26.010 --> 03:29.270]  But yeah, certainly, we, we, we got a lot of mail about that.
[03:29.410 --> 03:31.490]  Not, not all of it, not all of it attacking us.
[03:31.710 --> 03:32.890]  But you know, it's, it's funny.
[03:33.050 --> 03:34.910]  We just expressed opinions, really.
[03:35.110 --> 03:36.270]  And it wasn't a collective opinion.
[03:36.330 --> 03:41.150]  I think we all just sort of agreed with each other, which, you know, we never discussed this before.
[03:41.410 --> 03:44.290]  Well, it's because we all get our, you know, paychecks from us.
[03:44.310 --> 03:45.910]  Yeah, because we're all part of the conspiracy.
[03:46.130 --> 03:46.610]  Yeah, of course.
[03:47.270 --> 03:49.870]  Okay, let's, let's, let's start right in, read a couple of pieces of email.
[03:50.430 --> 03:54.070]  The first, a couple of pieces in our, in our support.
[03:54.230 --> 04:00.050]  The current administration is not competent enough to pull off a cover-up of the events of September 11th or anything else for that matter.
[04:00.070 --> 04:01.230]  I don't agree with this, actually.
[04:01.230 --> 04:09.650]  I think they're pretty competent to pull, you know, some kind of cover-up, but not the kinds of things that people are suggesting because, you know, that's just a TV plot.
[04:10.250 --> 04:21.490]  And number two, on the issue of the administration saying that FISA slows down prosecution of terrorists, is it possible that the few, in the few thousand pages of USA Patriot, there is a provision that makes FISA unnecessary, signed Jones.
[04:21.850 --> 04:22.530]  Good question.
[04:22.630 --> 04:24.030]  Has anybody read the Patriot Act?
[04:24.810 --> 04:26.470]  The answer is apparently no.
[04:26.730 --> 04:26.870]  Yeah.
[04:27.370 --> 04:29.890]  But that doesn't really stop the administration.
[04:30.950 --> 04:31.610]  No, no.
[04:32.550 --> 04:38.430]  Danny B writes in, like all good wackos, this guy had, I know, I use the word wacko.
[04:38.490 --> 04:39.550]  I wasn't referring to anybody in particular.
[04:39.730 --> 04:42.030]  I was referring to wacko conspiracy theories, which I'll continue to do.
[04:42.470 --> 04:46.250]  But anyway, like all good wackos, this guy had one real point, which has never been properly addressed.
[04:46.370 --> 04:49.930]  The FAA controllers gave oral interviews, which were taped shortly after the event.
[04:50.570 --> 04:56.530]  A supervisor then took the tapes and physically destroyed them, giving some sort of excuse about improper notification or something.
[04:56.690 --> 05:00.410]  He got some minor punishment, but no one ever got him to rat out who told him to do so.
[05:00.730 --> 05:04.270]  I personally don't believe he did it on his own, but stranger things have happened.
[05:06.150 --> 05:07.770]  And yeah, that's definitely an issue.
[05:07.950 --> 05:15.430]  It doesn't prove that Bush and Cheney sat together in a dark room and said, let's send these missiles into these buildings and things like that.
[05:15.570 --> 05:21.830]  Okay, but not to the fun stuff, to the fun stuff, to the interesting letters that we got.
[05:22.210 --> 05:24.630]  Our address, by the way, OTH at 2600.com.
[05:25.470 --> 05:28.690]  Gentlemen, regarding Loose Change, I haven't watched this documentary yet.
[05:28.750 --> 05:31.050]  That was the DVD that somebody brought into the studio, right?
[05:31.130 --> 05:31.710]  It just appeared.
[05:32.010 --> 05:34.570]  We mentioned it and it was thrown at us.
[05:34.570 --> 05:35.770]  Okay, and where did it go after that?
[05:35.830 --> 05:40.070]  Because everyone's saying to me, you got to see this thing and I want to see it, but someone took the DVD.
[05:40.390 --> 05:41.030]  Who took it?
[05:41.130 --> 05:41.550]  I took it.
[05:41.630 --> 05:42.070]  You took it.
[05:42.130 --> 05:42.890]  Did you bring it back?
[05:43.070 --> 05:43.290]  Yes.
[05:43.470 --> 05:44.210]  No, well, not today.
[05:44.350 --> 05:44.750]  He doesn't need to.
[05:44.750 --> 05:45.410]  What am I supposed to do?
[05:45.490 --> 05:45.810]  I can't.
[05:45.990 --> 05:47.210]  Yeah, I can watch it online.
[05:47.370 --> 05:49.270]  You know, I don't like to watch movies on my computer.
[05:49.430 --> 05:49.770]  You know why?
[05:49.870 --> 05:51.350]  Because people are instant messaging me.
[05:51.470 --> 05:52.330]  I'm getting email.
[05:52.630 --> 05:54.690]  I decide to do a little maintenance on some program.
[05:54.850 --> 05:55.850]  Log in to someone else.
[05:55.950 --> 05:57.150]  Listen, it's there.
[05:57.210 --> 05:57.670]  I'm going to do it.
[05:57.730 --> 06:02.010]  I'd rather sit in a room with a big screen and not have distractions and be able to pay attention.
[06:02.230 --> 06:03.210]  Is that so much to ask?
[06:03.370 --> 06:05.030]  Of course, my DVD player broke last night.
[06:05.250 --> 06:07.150]  Don't think I don't know who's responsible for that.
[06:07.470 --> 06:09.110]  God wants you to watch it on the computer.
[06:10.290 --> 06:14.190]  No, the powers that be want to keep this out of my sights, but I'm going to see it.
[06:14.250 --> 06:14.550]  I will.
[06:14.930 --> 06:16.070]  Bring back the DVD and I'll...
[06:16.070 --> 06:16.630]  You will get it.
[06:16.630 --> 06:17.570]  Or maybe another one will appear.
[06:17.570 --> 06:18.970]  Your friends can't find your house.
[06:19.070 --> 06:20.670]  You think the CIA broke into your house?
[06:20.770 --> 06:21.510]  They were able to find it?
[06:22.130 --> 06:24.490]  Okay, so anyway, I haven't watched this documentary yet.
[06:24.490 --> 06:25.170]  Have you guys?
[06:25.170 --> 06:31.170]  I would respect your critique of silly conspiracy theorists if anyone on the microphone had said they watched the documentary.
[06:31.330 --> 06:36.130]  There are plenty of intelligent and thoughtful WBAI producers offering this as a premium during the last fundraiser.
[06:36.650 --> 06:38.130]  Oh, yeah, we offer all sorts of things.
[06:38.270 --> 06:39.530]  Doesn't mean we agree with all of them, though.
[06:40.170 --> 06:42.770]  Many loyal listeners repeatedly listen to long excerpts.
[06:42.850 --> 06:43.510]  Are they all silly?
[06:43.570 --> 06:44.870]  No, you're never silly for listening.
[06:45.390 --> 06:47.090]  You're silly for saying silly things, though.
[06:48.430 --> 06:50.330]  Tonight, you basically said, so what if it's true?
[06:50.410 --> 06:51.110]  We didn't say that.
[06:51.350 --> 06:52.730]  Could you really mean that?
[06:53.510 --> 06:54.670]  We'd say it if we meant it.
[06:55.410 --> 07:06.630]  If what this document, document rather, proposes is in fact true, that the events of 9-11 were a false flag operation that basically empowered this administration to put the police state into overdrive, would that really not matter?
[07:07.470 --> 07:09.770]  Over the years, I've come to regard off the hook as a resource.
[07:09.890 --> 07:11.650]  I also very much enjoyed attending Fifth Hope.
[07:11.790 --> 07:14.990]  You were doing really good work and are much appreciated, but tonight you slipped a little.
[07:15.450 --> 07:20.250]  Why did you all react so strongly to this idea, ridiculing two callers who tried to offer some new information?
[07:20.670 --> 07:21.130]  Signed, Dan.
[07:21.270 --> 07:22.290]  Well, Dan, it's not new information.
[07:22.410 --> 07:26.590]  I've heard it a million times before, and that's why I reacted like that, because I'm sick of hearing about it.
[07:26.690 --> 07:27.590]  It's a silly theory.
[07:27.770 --> 07:29.010]  It's easily disproved.
[07:29.130 --> 07:31.950]  And, you know, you saw the DVD.
[07:32.130 --> 07:32.710]  I saw the DVD.
[07:32.710 --> 07:36.730]  So tell us, are you now convinced that those things happen?
[07:36.910 --> 07:37.050]  No.
[07:37.050 --> 07:43.790]  See, a lot of the arguments they use and a lot of the physics that they present is not sound and it's presented from a very elementary level.
[07:43.950 --> 07:44.630]  Walter's a physicist.
[07:44.930 --> 07:51.690]  And it's just, there's so many factors to take into account and there's so much complexity when you're dealing with, like, buildings that are collapsing.
[07:51.690 --> 07:53.850]  Okay, bring up one of the things, one of the points they made.
[07:54.310 --> 07:54.870]  You know what?
[07:55.190 --> 07:57.950]  I'm not prepared to argue against the DVD.
[07:57.950 --> 07:59.210]  No, I'm not, just bring up the point.
[07:59.290 --> 07:59.930]  We'll do the arguing.
[08:00.170 --> 08:03.910]  Just one conclusion that they raised or one speculation or something like that.
[08:04.430 --> 08:13.610]  Well, I mean, one of the issues was, I mean, one of the big issues that they presented was that the World Trade Center could not have possibly been taken down by a plane.
[08:13.670 --> 08:18.510]  Then I direct you to a documentary that appeared on the PBS program Nova.
[08:18.670 --> 08:20.950]  Now, of course, people are going to dismiss it because you saw that.
[08:21.110 --> 08:23.290]  It's called Why the Towers Fell.
[08:23.290 --> 08:24.290]  Why the Towers Fell.
[08:25.130 --> 08:28.670]  And people are going to say, yeah, PBS, it's run by the government or something like that.
[08:28.730 --> 08:29.390]  But it's not, okay?
[08:29.490 --> 08:32.870]  This is a documentary that was done independently.
[08:33.550 --> 08:35.810]  And there are interesting people.
[08:35.930 --> 08:36.570]  There's an engineer.
[08:36.850 --> 08:41.690]  There was this guy, Dr. Thomas Eager, who gave his perspective.
[08:41.690 --> 08:45.730]  And you can go to pbs.org and look for Why the Towers Fell.
[08:46.150 --> 08:50.610]  He was asked, after the plane struck and you saw those raging fires, did you think the towers would collapse?
[08:50.730 --> 08:51.270]  He said, no.
[08:51.570 --> 08:52.490]  In fact, I was surprised.
[08:52.490 --> 08:54.170]  So were most structural engineers.
[08:54.410 --> 08:59.010]  The only people I know who weren't surprised were a few people who've designed high-rise buildings.
[08:59.610 --> 09:02.990]  And then he was asked, the Twin Towers collapsed essentially straight down.
[09:03.130 --> 09:05.050]  Was there any chance they could have tipped over?
[09:05.710 --> 09:07.830]  The answer, it's really not possible in this case.
[09:07.950 --> 09:11.850]  In our normal experience, we deal with small things, say a glass of water that might tip over.
[09:12.010 --> 09:15.310]  And we don't realize how far something has to tip proportional to its base.
[09:15.430 --> 09:18.030]  The base of the World Trade Center was 208 feet on a side.
[09:18.150 --> 09:25.570]  And that means it would have had to have tipped at least 100 feet to one side in order to move its center of gravity from the center of the building out beyond its base.
[09:25.710 --> 09:27.330]  That would have been a tremendous amount of bending.
[09:27.670 --> 09:35.410]  And in a building that is mostly air, as the World Trade Center was, there would have been buckling columns and it would have come straight down before it ever tipped over.
[09:36.570 --> 09:37.370]  And it goes on.
[09:37.490 --> 09:40.390]  There's all kinds of speculation and questions.
[09:40.490 --> 09:40.730]  Mojo.
[09:40.730 --> 09:49.330]  Well, one of the big points in that documentary, Why the Towers Fell, was that if it had just been a fire, it would not have collapsed the building.
[09:49.450 --> 09:54.810]  But the problem was the force of the impact of the plane actually blew the fireproofing off the structure.
[09:55.010 --> 09:58.910]  And that lack of fireproofing is what made it come down, was what made the fire do it.
[10:00.130 --> 10:01.210]  It makes sense.
[10:01.370 --> 10:03.250]  I mean, I'm all for questioning these things.
[10:03.690 --> 10:15.530]  But I think it detracts from the real questions, the real questions as to the complicity of the Bush administration and all sorts of other things, how we rushed to war in Iraq, how we rushed the Patriot Act through, things like that.
[10:15.730 --> 10:20.410]  I don't think we need to be saying things like, yeah, the plane never hit the Pentagon.
[10:20.410 --> 10:22.570]  They fired a missile and took the plane someplace else.
[10:23.550 --> 10:24.810]  There's one of the theories.
[10:25.350 --> 10:26.430]  Actually, I looked this up.
[10:26.670 --> 10:27.210]  Loose change.
[10:28.470 --> 10:32.690]  There's another video, 9-11 in plain sight, which we were also offering as a premium.
[10:32.890 --> 10:34.130]  P-L-A-N-E.
[10:34.570 --> 10:35.850]  Yeah, spelled wrong.
[10:35.970 --> 10:37.630]  And that's not all that's wrong about that one.
[10:38.070 --> 10:39.690]  I mean, this one was an embarrassment.
[10:39.910 --> 10:43.230]  And I think we're sorry we ever offered it as a premium at the station.
[10:43.350 --> 10:46.550]  The guy turns out to be a Holocaust denier and all kinds of other horrible things.
[10:46.730 --> 10:49.430]  You know, you can basically disprove anything if you have enough people listening to you.
[10:49.870 --> 10:52.050]  The other one, loose change, a little bit better.
[10:52.310 --> 10:53.310]  I guess a lot better.
[10:53.570 --> 10:55.310]  But still, you know, the conclusions.
[10:55.890 --> 11:00.290]  You can easily just talk to some experts and do your own research.
[11:00.390 --> 11:04.850]  And you'll see some things that I don't think are covered here or glossed over.
[11:05.710 --> 11:18.230]  But one of the conclusions, Flight 93, and you saw this Redbird, so tell me if it's true, suggested United Airlines Flight 93 did not crash in Pennsylvania, but actually landed safely at Cleveland.
[11:18.390 --> 11:18.510]  Right.
[11:18.550 --> 11:22.990]  And this is one of the things that I can never get anyone to address is what happened to the people on the plane.
[11:22.990 --> 11:30.470]  Because I know people who have... I know one person who had a close friend who was actually... whose son was actually on that plane.
[11:30.510 --> 11:31.650]  Then you know somebody who's conspiring.
[11:31.850 --> 11:33.850]  And, I mean, I just want an answer.
[11:33.930 --> 11:34.870]  What happened to these people?
[11:35.070 --> 11:36.110]  And, you know, these are not...
[11:37.230 --> 11:40.490]  these are real people on the plane that just disappeared.
[11:40.530 --> 11:40.890]  I don't know.
[11:40.990 --> 11:48.110]  Another contention of the film says that all the phone calls were faked, and that it's not possible to make phone calls from an airplane burning.
[11:48.250 --> 11:49.070]  You want to take this one?
[11:49.370 --> 11:50.270]  It sure is.
[11:50.470 --> 11:54.990]  Not if you listen to the FAA, but if you listen to the FCC, they'll say it's certainly possible.
[11:55.750 --> 12:02.190]  It's all too possible because your call will try to get routed through many different cell sites simultaneously.
[12:02.650 --> 12:06.450]  It's supposed to be... your phone's supposed to be on the ground and only hit one nearby cell site.
[12:06.530 --> 12:08.590]  But from a plane, you can hit a whole bunch of them.
[12:08.890 --> 12:12.870]  So I think it's very possible that cell phone calls are made from the plane.
[12:13.070 --> 12:17.790]  And, you know, there are a lot of relatives that appeared on all sorts of news reports.
[12:18.250 --> 12:26.710]  I don't think they really appreciate hearing that the call that they got from the person that was about to die that was one of their loved ones was fake, or it didn't happen, or that they're lying about it.
[12:27.210 --> 12:29.190]  I mean, you know, you just have to draw the line someplace.
[12:29.410 --> 12:30.390]  Let's get back to some of the mail.
[12:30.790 --> 12:35.370]  I just want to say that no plane crash ever in history has left nothing at all in the ground.
[12:35.370 --> 12:40.230]  It is impossible to have an entire airplane evaporated in the crash like they say happened to the Pentagon plane.
[12:40.390 --> 12:41.350]  You know who's saying that?
[12:41.410 --> 12:44.450]  The people who are pushing these theories are saying that it evaporated.
[12:44.550 --> 12:48.810]  I don't think anybody who investigated the wreckage actually believes that it evaporated.
[12:48.890 --> 12:49.990]  I'm sure they found plenty of things.
[12:50.430 --> 12:52.210]  I don't have access to the Pentagon.
[12:52.210 --> 12:55.730]  I don't know what goes on on their grounds, but people saw something happen.
[12:56.070 --> 12:58.650]  They saw the plane crash, and you can't just discount all those witnesses.
[12:58.870 --> 13:09.430]  On the news later that day, they showed a engine and a landing gear that had hit Broadway or some area thereof several blocks north.
[13:09.450 --> 13:10.410]  Oh, you're talking about the World Trade Center.
[13:10.510 --> 13:11.370]  I was talking about the Pentagon.
[13:11.690 --> 13:12.050]  Oh, okay.
[13:12.250 --> 13:16.410]  And I think they were talking about Flight 93, which crashed in Pennsylvania.
[13:16.410 --> 13:21.150]  But I thought that one, I thought the conspiracy theory on that one, was that it got shot down by the military.
[13:21.530 --> 13:21.850]  Yes.
[13:22.050 --> 13:24.170]  So then there would be wreckage if it got shot down.
[13:24.390 --> 13:34.090]  And the justification for that was that that theory was that pieces of debris were found miles away, which wouldn't have happened if it was an impact of the ground.
[13:34.330 --> 13:35.970]  It would have happened if it were shot out of the sky.
[13:36.130 --> 13:37.010]  But I don't know.
[13:37.130 --> 13:37.750]  Stuff will bounce.
[13:38.030 --> 13:43.970]  Well, I mean, I can even entertain that theory because that's something that's a lot harder to prove whether or not it was shot down.
[13:44.290 --> 13:46.470]  That's simply somebody lying about something.
[13:46.470 --> 13:51.430]  But to say it didn't crash, to say it landed in Cleveland, that's what I call the wacko conspiracy theories.
[13:51.550 --> 13:52.890]  And I'm sorry if that offends anybody.
[13:52.950 --> 13:59.390]  But, you know, at some point, we just have to move on and deal with real life and not think we're in an episode of 24 or something.
[13:59.650 --> 14:00.690]  Speaking of moving on.
[14:01.050 --> 14:02.290]  Yeah, but I want to read a couple of these letters.
[14:02.370 --> 14:03.410]  People took the time to write them.
[14:03.750 --> 14:07.910]  And, you know, I'd like for the venom to at least be dispersed over the airwaves a bit.
[14:08.650 --> 14:13.890]  Sirs, I was somewhat annoyed by your responses to inquiring callers discussing the 9-11 attacks.
[14:14.150 --> 14:16.970]  Is it really necessary for you to carefully mock these people?
[14:17.110 --> 14:20.930]  I don't think we mocked anybody to their face or specifically as people.
[14:21.010 --> 14:21.830]  We mocked the theories.
[14:21.990 --> 14:24.070]  We mocked the group of people, I guess.
[14:24.350 --> 14:24.730]  But yeah.
[14:25.070 --> 14:25.470]  Yeah.
[14:25.590 --> 14:27.770]  I think it was necessary to mock it to a degree.
[14:28.090 --> 14:28.250]  It's necessary.
[14:28.250 --> 14:31.790]  They're making it sound like we didn't allow them to say what they wanted to say, which is the whole point here.
[14:31.790 --> 14:32.350]  We totally did.
[14:32.370 --> 14:33.330]  We wish our own conclusions.
[14:33.330 --> 14:39.470]  I, you know, I see a lot of judgment here against people who reach different conclusions than the people writing in.
[14:39.570 --> 14:46.190]  And I think... If it was anywhere else, they would have been screened first and they would have not been on the air to begin with, so... Or unless they wanted to mock them on the air, then they would put them on the air.
[14:46.270 --> 14:47.170]  But anyway, true.
[14:47.250 --> 14:53.190]  They're conspiracy theorists, but their theories are in many cases more palpable than the absurd conspiracy theories that the government has advanced.
[14:53.970 --> 14:58.250]  Rather than mock and snicker at these questionnaires, you might want to engage in a rational discussion.
[14:58.450 --> 15:01.010]  We all saw the planes hit the WTC towers.
[15:01.650 --> 15:04.990]  However, physical evidence is not conclusive that this is what brought the towers down.
[15:05.210 --> 15:09.190]  Unfortunately, much of that physical evidence was illegally removed from the site, if you recall.
[15:10.750 --> 15:22.590]  However, there's enough in the captured video and evidence of the excavation and scattered debris to physically prove that there were demolition energy sources other than the planes, and these had to involve thermite-type explosives.
[15:23.030 --> 15:27.750]  Well, you know, you can say that, but there are lots of experts who disagree, and you have to deal with that.
[15:28.030 --> 15:30.270]  And not all of them are part of the conspiracy.
[15:30.790 --> 15:35.190]  I ran into one of these experts last month when I went to pick up my conspiracy paycheck.
[15:35.670 --> 15:35.950]  Really?
[15:36.170 --> 15:36.310]  Yeah.
[15:36.830 --> 15:37.570]  So, tell us.
[15:37.590 --> 15:38.470]  He's a nice guy, you know?
[15:38.650 --> 15:38.830]  Uh-huh.
[15:39.510 --> 15:41.230]  One of the people who are part of the conspiracy?
[15:41.330 --> 15:41.790]  One of the people...
[15:41.790 --> 15:42.030]  No, no.
[15:42.070 --> 15:45.090]  One of these experts that you refer to who's, you know...
[15:45.090 --> 15:45.330]  Uh-huh.
[15:45.610 --> 15:47.290]  You know, the conspiracy paycheck off.
[15:47.350 --> 15:48.290]  It's a very busy place.
[15:48.410 --> 15:50.210]  How do I get on conspiracy unemployment?
[15:53.210 --> 15:53.690]  Okay.
[15:53.910 --> 16:05.450]  Continuing with that same letter, it's interesting to note that even General Wesley Clark stated recently on national television that he thinks 9-11 ought to be criminally investigated, implying at least criminal negligence on the part of the W.O.
[16:05.450 --> 16:05.710]  Junta.
[16:05.870 --> 16:14.970]  Well, you know, there's a big difference between saying it should be criminally investigated and saying that there were missiles fired from these airplanes that apparently weren't carrying passengers.
[16:15.610 --> 16:25.050]  Uh, I respect your right to doubt and to question all accounts and theories concerning 9-11, but I do not see why you should have more respect for the government's arguments over those of the government's detractors.
[16:25.150 --> 16:27.590]  First of all, why are these the government's arguments?
[16:27.770 --> 16:30.210]  These are our conclusions based on the evidence we've seen.
[16:30.570 --> 16:36.650]  Uh, when did the government own the conclusions that uh, engineers and physicists and all sorts of scientists have come up with?
[16:36.890 --> 16:44.670]  Uh, there's one thought versus another thought, and we happen to, I think, does anybody... I mean, we haven't talked about this before the show.
[16:45.410 --> 16:50.530]  So, uh, so, you know, I think we, uh, we all pretty much come to the same conclusions independently.
[16:51.730 --> 16:55.830]  Um, anyway, uh, by the way, I met you 15 years ago at one of your meetings at the city core building.
[16:55.930 --> 16:57.250]  You struck me as a scientific thinker.
[16:57.330 --> 16:59.830]  You should apply that skepticism to your observations about 9-11.
[17:00.270 --> 17:01.350]  Okay, thanks very much.
[17:01.350 --> 17:03.890]  But how do you know I haven't already done that?
[17:03.990 --> 17:05.690]  And that's why I've reached my conclusions.
[17:05.830 --> 17:13.110]  A lot of, um, you know, a lot of people are... are, uh, thinking that they, uh, they know how our thought processes work.
[17:13.830 --> 17:14.850]  Um, okay.
[17:15.950 --> 17:17.350]  And let's see what else.
[17:17.670 --> 17:19.710]  Um, okay, here are a couple of key points.
[17:20.210 --> 17:21.070]  A couple of key points.
[17:21.230 --> 17:26.550]  No steel frame building has ever fallen due to fire, even ones that have been out of control for several days.
[17:26.690 --> 17:30.010]  Never in human history has one fallen until 9-11 and three fell in one day.
[17:31.010 --> 17:33.810]  Well, okay, maybe so, but nothing like that had happened before.
[17:34.530 --> 17:37.050]  Um, the collapse was sudden and straight down.
[17:37.290 --> 17:43.490]  How likely is it that all the members supporting all three buildings would fall uniformly to, um, allow straight down collapse instead of toppling over?
[17:43.570 --> 17:44.630]  I think we've already been through this.
[17:45.510 --> 17:46.490]  Uh, what else?
[17:46.570 --> 17:47.910]  Why did building seven even fall?
[17:48.010 --> 17:48.930]  Okay, that's an interesting one.
[17:48.990 --> 17:49.730]  That's an interesting question.
[17:49.750 --> 17:52.310]  I've asked that many times, and a bunch of people are raising their hands.
[17:52.690 --> 17:56.910]  Uh, most of the reports from the firefighters say that it only had a few fires on several floors.
[17:57.030 --> 17:58.110]  It was never hit by a plane.
[17:58.250 --> 18:04.150]  No steel core buildings have ever fallen due to fire before, and this one does, without even the excuse of the plane fuel causing it.
[18:04.370 --> 18:09.830]  Well, I'd looked into this a little bit, and maybe, maybe this is bad information I've gotten, but it seems to be reliable.
[18:10.270 --> 18:17.350]  They were storing some huge amounts of diesel fuel in that building for some kind of emergency, which apparently really backfired badly.
[18:17.670 --> 18:21.910]  And that's what caused a massive fire in that building that eventually led to its destruction.
[18:22.090 --> 18:22.690]  I don't know.
[18:23.090 --> 18:23.470]  Uh, Bernie, yes?
[18:23.750 --> 18:26.030]  And the, uh, CIA and the U.S.
[18:26.090 --> 18:28.410]  Secret Service both had offices in building seven.
[18:28.610 --> 18:29.810]  Did they know about the diesel fuel?
[18:30.510 --> 18:34.730]  They were probably hoarding it themselves for all we know, but there's always a silver lining.
[18:34.910 --> 18:37.950]  That was always the one that, that, uh, kind of piqued my interest the most.
[18:38.190 --> 18:42.910]  So if it can be proven that there was no diesel fuel in there, then, uh, that, then you got something.
[18:43.090 --> 18:45.350]  But I imagine it's pretty easy to figure out.
[18:45.590 --> 18:49.730]  There's got to be a paper trail if you have several hundred thousand gallons of diesel fuel in the building.
[18:49.830 --> 18:49.950]  Jim?
[18:50.510 --> 18:55.970]  Yeah, I was going to say that the mayor's emergency bunker was, uh, several floors up in that building.
[18:56.070 --> 18:58.150]  I don't remember exactly where, so I'm not going to speculate.
[18:58.430 --> 19:01.490]  What kind of thought process puts an emergency bunker with a diesel fuel?
[19:01.710 --> 19:02.150]  It gets better.
[19:02.350 --> 19:12.130]  The, the generators for the emergency bunker are on a similarly high floor, if not the same floor, and so are the tanks of thousands of gallons of diesel fuel for the mayor's bunker.
[19:12.290 --> 19:15.850]  See, this kind of government conspiring, I can believe, because it's incompetent.
[19:16.110 --> 19:16.690]  All right?
[19:16.830 --> 19:19.730]  Anything that, that is so slick that every base is covered, no.
[19:19.850 --> 19:20.230]  I'm sorry.
[19:20.290 --> 19:20.850]  I don't believe that.
[19:20.890 --> 19:28.230]  And furthermore, long-time listeners will recall that, uh, I was in the neighborhood the day of 9-11, managed to get home around 4 p.m.
[19:29.410 --> 19:32.610]  and, uh, immediately put on the news.
[19:32.870 --> 19:43.510]  And at that time, somebody from Channel 7, which at that point was the only station I could pick up, was inside, uh, 7 World Trade as it was starting to really, really burn.
[19:43.770 --> 19:43.990]  Uh-huh.
[19:44.330 --> 19:47.490]  And, uh, something was burning at that point.
[19:47.510 --> 19:48.730]  It wasn't thermite.
[19:48.870 --> 19:51.530]  I don't know if anybody has actually played with thermite.
[19:51.670 --> 19:55.330]  I did back in my, uh, misspent youth as a chemistry major.
[19:55.830 --> 19:59.010]  And thermite does not generally create fires.
[19:59.170 --> 20:11.450]  It's an intense white light and an extreme heat source, but it itself, it doesn't burn the way you imagine a fire to burn, either of paper or wood or of petroleum products like diesel fuel.
[20:11.650 --> 20:17.710]  And what I saw on Channel 7 was not thermite going off here and there.
[20:17.930 --> 20:26.690]  It was a sustained raging fire, something of high combustibility, and diesel fuel seemed like a good candidate, was burning.
[20:27.710 --> 20:32.810]  Thermite would have been much more controlled and the building would have come down immediately afterward, or close to immediately afterward.
[20:32.930 --> 20:42.210]  Another thing that, uh, that people like to, uh, point to as suspicious was that the airplanes that hit the World Trade Center didn't look like commercial jetliners.
[20:42.290 --> 20:52.930]  Now this is the first, I hadn't even heard this one, uh, before a couple of weeks ago, but, um, I looked into a little bit and the only thing I could, I could, I could find were blurry pictures taken from somebody's video camera.
[20:53.050 --> 21:05.170]  And the testimony is some guy who was standing on a subway platform in Brooklyn who said it didn't look like, and, and you know, when, when things happen live, when things are happening and it's, it's a crazy day, you get all sorts of, of misreporting.
[21:05.310 --> 21:07.970]  I was watching TV live when things were happening.
[21:08.110 --> 21:13.370]  And one guy said the entire building just exploded, which obviously didn't happen, but that's what a reporter said.
[21:13.610 --> 21:17.230]  Someone else said that a car bomb had gone off, uh, in front of the state department.
[21:17.350 --> 21:19.650]  I remember that I've, I taped CNN for a week.
[21:19.690 --> 21:23.950]  So I have all of this I can just look at and, and see how things were misreported.
[21:24.070 --> 21:25.710]  People do get things wrong.
[21:25.870 --> 21:30.910]  Now, the thing about the airplanes not looking like passenger jets because they were actually loaded with, with missiles.
[21:31.710 --> 21:33.070]  Think about that for a second.
[21:33.270 --> 21:39.750]  All it would take would be one person getting a good picture of that airplane as it, as it went into Manhattan, a pretty good chance of somebody doing that.
[21:40.190 --> 21:43.730]  And the entire operation, whatever that might be, would be blown.
[21:43.890 --> 21:47.450]  So I don't think whoever would be behind such a thing would be that stupid.
[21:47.530 --> 21:51.130]  And also it doesn't explain what happened to the people who are supposedly on the real airplanes.
[21:51.450 --> 21:55.130]  It's interesting because I was watching the news as well that morning, as, as were most people.
[21:55.270 --> 22:03.090]  And there were all sorts of crazy reports about how, you know, dozens of planes have been hijacked and all this other stuff and all this misreporting.
[22:03.250 --> 22:11.750]  And, uh, what's interesting is that a lot of people are taking these clips as facts when, you know, it's just, it's live reporting and they don't know what, what is fact and what's not yet.
[22:12.110 --> 22:15.910]  And, uh, and representing that as if, you know, that's, that's the truth.
[22:16.210 --> 22:19.310]  This, uh, this reader writes in with, um, another perspective.
[22:19.510 --> 22:23.190]  Hey guys, I love the show and the magazine, but I'm running to let you in on my latest project.
[22:23.190 --> 22:24.910]  I'm currently working on a conspiracy theory.
[22:25.490 --> 22:26.190]  Uh, here's the premise.
[22:26.390 --> 22:27.510]  Uh, the Illuminati did it.
[22:27.710 --> 22:30.190]  Uh, at the moment I still need to do six things.
[22:30.330 --> 22:31.090]  And these are the six steps.
[22:31.090 --> 22:36.570]  One, come up with what the Illuminati did, whether it's UFOs, 9-11, Kennedy, Lincoln assassination, moon landing, et cetera.
[22:37.170 --> 22:38.890]  Two, make up why the Illuminati did it.
[22:39.030 --> 22:40.450]  Three, come up with some falsities.
[22:40.830 --> 22:42.670]  Is that a word to back up my theory?
[22:43.030 --> 22:46.410]  Number four, bust out the Photoshop to help support above mentioned falsity.
[22:46.710 --> 22:51.970]  Number five, write up an email with all this evidence and plenty of bad grammar and send it to everyone I've ever met.
[22:52.130 --> 22:53.050]  Number six, repeat.
[22:53.210 --> 22:57.430]  I guarantee you that in no time, you guys will be getting bothered on the show with my new conspiracy.
[22:58.030 --> 22:58.470]  Enjoy it.
[22:59.490 --> 23:04.610]  I'm not saying there aren't conspiracies out there, but, uh, pick your conspiracies and make sure it's a good one.
[23:04.750 --> 23:12.450]  I think, I think every conversation with a September 11th conspiracy theorist should be preceded with the question, well, did we land on the moon?
[23:13.010 --> 23:16.630]  And depending on their answer to that, you either continue or don't continue the conversation.
[23:17.550 --> 23:17.950]  Yeah.
[23:18.110 --> 23:19.350]  I hope we landed on the moon.
[23:19.410 --> 23:19.790]  I really do.
[23:19.850 --> 23:22.790]  But I think not everybody at NASA would be part of a conspiracy.
[23:22.950 --> 23:23.750]  I watch these guys.
[23:23.890 --> 23:26.170]  I watch NASA TV and these guys are great.
[23:26.330 --> 23:29.350]  You know, they're so enthusiastic about the latest Mars mission and everything like that.
[23:29.910 --> 23:31.210]  These guys could do no wrong.
[23:31.350 --> 23:31.890]  I'm sorry.
[23:32.330 --> 23:32.890]  They're cool.
[23:33.530 --> 23:33.890]  Serif.
[23:33.950 --> 23:34.650]  Serif, you join us.
[23:34.910 --> 23:35.310]  Emmanuel.
[23:35.550 --> 23:37.890]  How do you, how do you feel about all this, uh, conspiracy business?
[23:38.230 --> 23:40.010]  Well, you know, I've watched this film as well.
[23:40.350 --> 23:45.390]  Um, and there's a lot of stuff in there that's, you know, really poorly documented.
[23:45.650 --> 23:47.710]  And, you know, they talk about how well researched it is.
[23:47.810 --> 23:54.690]  And, um, the problem is that they show all these little newspaper clippings and pieces of websites don't tell you where they came from.
[23:55.150 --> 23:55.870]  So it's really hard to...
[23:55.870 --> 23:56.230]  They have a website?
[23:56.330 --> 23:57.350]  Oh, I didn't know it was on a website.
[23:57.470 --> 24:00.490]  Now my opinion is changing if they actually have website documentation.
[24:01.470 --> 24:03.390]  Wikipedia was cited very many times.
[24:03.550 --> 24:07.010]  That's because you can, you can change Wikipedia, cite it, and then change it back.
[24:08.390 --> 24:16.090]  But something that is shown in this documentary that, um, that, you know, doesn't make me think is, um, there are all these pointers to lack of evidence.
[24:16.210 --> 24:19.810]  You talk about how well-documented it is that things went a certain way.
[24:20.210 --> 24:22.170]  And it shows that there are holes in that documentation.
[24:22.470 --> 24:23.990]  Now, do I believe the alternative theory?
[24:24.290 --> 24:28.590]  I'd say in, you know, nine cases out of ten, I don't.
[24:28.990 --> 24:33.870]  But you look at photographs of the outside of the Pentagon and where wings should have slammed into the side of the building.
[24:33.870 --> 24:36.290]  And all you see really is a hole where the fuselage should be.
[24:36.610 --> 24:37.610]  What happened to the wings?
[24:37.730 --> 24:38.770]  Where's the damage from the wings?
[24:38.990 --> 24:40.050]  You don't see it there.
[24:40.690 --> 24:43.310]  Well, then again, no one's ever crashed a commercial jetliner into the Pentagon.
[24:43.310 --> 24:46.630]  My suggestion last week, they have four other sides.
[24:47.110 --> 24:47.890]  Try it again.
[24:48.190 --> 24:49.190]  Don't put people on the plane.
[24:49.330 --> 24:49.990]  Do a robot plane.
[24:50.130 --> 24:51.330]  And just get everybody out of the Pentagon.
[24:51.470 --> 24:56.070]  And just, just to, just to shut these people up and say, look, this is what it looks like.
[24:56.150 --> 24:56.870]  This is what happens.
[24:56.930 --> 24:57.690]  Because we don't know.
[24:57.770 --> 24:58.830]  We've never done it before.
[24:59.030 --> 24:59.170]  Right.
[24:59.730 --> 25:00.390]  That's the thing.
[25:00.570 --> 25:03.690]  You can't come up with a conclusion and say, this is proof that a missile hit.
[25:03.810 --> 25:04.970]  Because no, it's not.
[25:04.970 --> 25:05.470]  I'm sorry.
[25:05.690 --> 25:06.450]  I'm not convinced.
[25:07.770 --> 25:10.290]  Well, but there are, there are holes in the evidence is all I'm saying.
[25:10.370 --> 25:11.230]  Yeah, definitely there are holes.
[25:11.230 --> 25:15.950]  And then you have an interview with the coroner in Pennsylvania who went to that field and couldn't find any human remains.
[25:16.670 --> 25:17.710]  Interesting things like this.
[25:17.830 --> 25:20.910]  Now, do they point to these other theories being correct?
[25:21.050 --> 25:21.190]  No.
[25:21.530 --> 25:23.630]  No, it doesn't point to planes landing in Cleveland, that's for sure.
[25:23.730 --> 25:23.910]  No.
[25:24.390 --> 25:25.190]  But they're interesting.
[25:25.290 --> 25:25.830]  Yeah, they're interesting.
[25:25.930 --> 25:27.890]  I definitely agree they're interesting.
[25:27.890 --> 25:34.010]  I just don't like these conclusions being drawn that really don't make any sense and don't have anything supporting them.
[25:34.150 --> 25:35.250]  It's a little too rock and roll.
[25:35.930 --> 25:36.690]  Yeah, yeah.
[25:37.250 --> 25:41.570]  Okay, so that's pretty much all I want to say on the subject, which took 25 minutes of the show.
[25:41.670 --> 25:42.850]  Of course, you're welcome to call in.
[25:42.950 --> 25:45.190]  But please, let's not turn this into a conspiracy show.
[25:46.050 --> 25:48.470]  Because we have all sorts of other real conspiracies to talk about.
[25:49.290 --> 25:52.310]  Anything that anyone wants to bring up that happened this last week?
[25:52.310 --> 25:53.410]  This is in Greece.
[25:53.770 --> 25:56.010]  There's a real conspiracy of some sort in Greece.
[25:56.190 --> 25:56.330]  Oh, good.
[25:57.010 --> 26:03.290]  Apparently, 100 of the high-ranking officials, including the prime minister of Greece, their mobile phones were tapped.
[26:03.670 --> 26:11.390]  And no one knows, or at least the media doesn't know by whom, who is doing the tapping, which is kind of strange.
[26:11.670 --> 26:23.570]  And so now they're going to implement a new law that mobile phone operators could face fines of up to 2 million euros if they allow people who aren't the police to tap phone lines.
[26:24.190 --> 26:24.790]  Interesting.
[26:24.990 --> 26:25.150]  Jim?
[26:25.330 --> 26:28.650]  This is an extension of some interesting old news.
[26:29.570 --> 26:30.370]  Excuse me.
[26:30.730 --> 26:35.410]  This originally started at the time of the Olympics, but became known about six months ago.
[26:36.510 --> 26:50.770]  A number of Greek officials linked to the Olympics and a number of IOC people, not necessarily members of the IOC itself, the 43 bigwigs that run the International Olympic Committee, had their phones tapped by unknown persons.
[26:51.070 --> 26:52.230]  And then that became public.
[26:52.550 --> 27:06.070]  And now the members of the Greek government, which suggests to me, I may be totally wrong, but suggests to me that somebody is playing around more than there's some sort of weird conspiracy theory or a government cabal.
[27:07.530 --> 27:08.050]  Interesting.
[27:08.870 --> 27:10.490]  Some more... Yes, Saref, go ahead.
[27:10.810 --> 27:25.030]  I can just add also something to this story, which is that, if I recall correctly, the method by which these phones or these phone conversations were intercepted was using the software that was installed for the purpose of lawful interception by police.
[27:25.810 --> 27:31.170]  So that software that's meant to allow the lawful tapping was used for the unlawful tapping.
[27:31.290 --> 27:31.710]  Interesting.
[27:32.690 --> 27:33.970]  Burton, that sounds familiar, doesn't it?
[27:34.230 --> 27:34.530]  Yes.
[27:34.690 --> 27:37.950]  I think I actually sent something to the list about this several weeks ago.
[27:38.070 --> 27:48.390]  That is indeed the allegation that the authorized wire typing software was hacked by someone to make it usable by unauthorized parties.
[27:48.650 --> 27:55.610]  And that's how they discovered the so-called paper trail to see, oh, wait a second, all these logs show that all these other people were tapped.
[27:55.690 --> 28:00.950]  And we don't know who actually configured these taps, because the software was modified without permission.
[28:01.170 --> 28:03.530]  So there's a lot of finger pointing going on.
[28:03.610 --> 28:07.430]  The SCIA is saying, well, it wasn't us, we would have done a much better job.
[28:08.430 --> 28:09.730]  And a lot of questions.
[28:10.250 --> 28:10.510]  All right.
[28:11.610 --> 28:15.970]  There's also an interesting case involving cellular tracking taking place in New York.
[28:15.970 --> 28:33.630]  Of course, we all heard about the murder that took place a few weeks ago, somebody who had been to a bar in New York City, and they tracked down the guy accused of it because his T-Mobile cell phone was sending little pings to an antenna in Brooklyn, even though he wasn't actually on the phone,
[28:33.730 --> 28:34.050]  apparently.
[28:34.350 --> 28:42.230]  The big blue tower apparently took notice that Daryl Littlejohn's cell phone was nearby, even though he wasn't making a call.
[28:42.350 --> 28:46.230]  And it stored that information, which was later retrieved from T-Mobile by the police.
[28:46.430 --> 28:51.550]  It's a way to track people that is stronger than relying on witnesses, a police source said.
[28:51.670 --> 28:54.330]  Those pesky witnesses, who needs them?
[28:54.330 --> 28:56.510]  We can just ping your phone now.
[28:57.090 --> 28:58.450]  This came from the Daily News.
[28:58.550 --> 29:09.730]  Daily News found the tower about four blocks from where the body was discovered, and at least a dozen more along the 5.7 mile stretch between the site and the guy's home in Queens.
[29:11.070 --> 29:22.270]  There is telephone evidence, telephone records that put the telephone that Mr. Littlejohn had in his possession in the vicinity, the immediate vicinity of where the body was located, and also the route to that location.
[29:24.230 --> 29:24.750]  Interesting.
[29:25.150 --> 29:34.710]  Cell phone companies and industry groups say they don't save location data or didn't respond to requests, but the experts say that few rules govern that information.
[29:34.850 --> 29:37.830]  The phone company can have records of where you are whenever your phone is turned on.
[29:38.010 --> 29:41.350]  It's up to the phone company how long they store those records.
[29:41.490 --> 29:45.950]  That's according to privacy expert Peter Swire, law professor at Ohio State University.
[29:46.170 --> 29:51.230]  Most people don't realize this, and criminals don't think to turn their phone off when they're about to commit a crime.
[29:51.590 --> 29:54.290]  Well, now, I think criminals are thinking thinking twice.
[29:54.510 --> 29:56.230]  Let me introduce McFly from Germany.
[29:56.450 --> 29:57.110]  Do you have something to say on this?
[29:57.490 --> 30:03.890]  Well, in Germany, or to be more precise in Europe, the phone companies has to store this data for at least six months.
[30:04.190 --> 30:09.350]  So, I believe it's technically absolutely as GSM is the same over here, I think.
[30:10.110 --> 30:12.710]  But it's by law they have to store it for six months?
[30:12.870 --> 30:13.070]  Yes.
[30:13.350 --> 30:15.090]  Okay, I'm not sure if we have a law like that here.
[30:15.250 --> 30:16.010]  You will have soon.
[30:16.130 --> 30:16.790]  I'm sure we will.
[30:17.190 --> 30:19.290]  And I'm sure it'll be longer than six months.
[30:19.670 --> 30:22.210]  In fact, I believe the phone companies probably store this forever.
[30:22.790 --> 30:31.970]  Well, in fact, in Europe, there's the law that the phone companies has to start for at least six months, up to two years, and the countries themselves have to choose.
[30:32.110 --> 30:33.650]  In Germany, it's six months.
[30:33.890 --> 30:39.530]  Some other countries, like Italy, took two years, where the phone company has to store the localization data.
[30:41.070 --> 30:41.510]  Interesting.
[30:41.510 --> 30:52.650]  And something else, over in New Jersey, the East Orange Police Department is getting ready to greatly enlarge its public safety ranks with what's being called the Virtual Community Patrol.
[30:53.010 --> 30:54.490]  You New Jersey guys hear about this?
[30:54.730 --> 30:55.170]  No?
[30:55.390 --> 30:56.370]  Oh, maybe you can join up.
[30:56.910 --> 31:11.490]  Soon-to-be-chosen residents will get access to a website that, and they're going to give us access too, I hope, because you're probably listening to us, that provides panoramic views of their block, allows them to type in general complaints, pinpoint a problem location,
[31:12.030 --> 31:18.250]  immediately send that information to police headquarters, and simultaneously activate hidden police surveillance cameras.
[31:19.410 --> 31:20.090]  Yeah.
[31:20.570 --> 31:29.410]  With its potential to include a vast number of crime-fighting community participants, the Virtual Community Patrol may be the first such project of its kind in the nation.
[31:29.410 --> 31:34.690]  We plan on giving the community control of a very powerful technology, said a spokesman.
[31:34.950 --> 31:42.290]  The program will be tested in two troubled neighborhoods, Lenox Avenue off South Arlington Avenue, and Amherst Street off Central Avenue.
[31:42.290 --> 31:43.710]  That's over in East Orange.
[31:44.250 --> 31:47.950]  We want to give people shared virtual control of their community.
[31:48.070 --> 31:52.910]  Essentially, when they see something that alarms them, they can go to the website, type in information, and hit send.
[31:53.210 --> 32:00.670]  We will then get an alert in our community center, and automatically video cameras will turn to what they are looking at or what they are complaining about.
[32:01.330 --> 32:02.590]  We'll see what they're seeing.
[32:02.730 --> 32:04.230]  We'll be able to respond quicker.
[32:04.470 --> 32:15.870]  For example, an individual might see suspicious drug activity around the parked car, get on the internet, type in a brief description of what's happening, use a cursor to pinpoint the trouble spot on one of six neighborhoods still pictures that pop up,
[32:16.170 --> 32:19.170]  and then transmit that information to the police command communication center.
[32:19.690 --> 32:23.830]  And then the cops will view a live video feed of the suspicious or criminal activity.
[32:24.390 --> 32:25.950]  1984, it's here, finally.
[32:25.950 --> 32:27.010]  I've been waiting for this.
[32:27.190 --> 32:27.910]  Here we are.
[32:28.230 --> 32:28.490]  Arsene.
[32:28.690 --> 32:34.570]  Well, why can't that same person just call the police department and say, hey, I'm on the street, there's people selling drugs?
[32:34.710 --> 32:37.010]  Because then the cops have to go out and look themselves.
[32:37.190 --> 32:43.990]  This way they can sit on their fat asses and look at a camera and see and say, you know, we're not going to bother with this.
[32:44.430 --> 32:54.350]  I think I think they're going to see one of the flaws in this very quickly, which is that there's so many old people who find problems with everything, and they're just going to have so many complaints.
[32:54.510 --> 32:56.030]  There's a stranger down the street.
[32:56.150 --> 32:57.310]  I don't recognize this person.
[32:58.410 --> 32:58.870]  Oh, boy.
[32:58.970 --> 32:59.090]  Yeah.
[32:59.250 --> 33:02.250]  So this is this is really going to be going to be crazy.
[33:02.410 --> 33:03.290]  Bernie, what do you think about this?
[33:03.530 --> 33:07.630]  I'm going to zoom those cameras in and all the police sleeping in their cars and report them.
[33:08.990 --> 33:09.550]  Jim.
[33:09.850 --> 33:13.310]  Well, in a related story, have you heard about Gawker dot com?
[33:13.770 --> 33:14.030]  No.
[33:14.330 --> 33:15.290]  Sounds like something I could use.
[33:15.610 --> 33:25.330]  Gawker dot com, which is a celebrity enthusiast site, let's call it, has something called Stalker.
[33:25.850 --> 33:28.450]  And boy, talk about truth in advertising.
[33:29.010 --> 33:29.090]  Right.
[33:29.410 --> 33:44.450]  Together with Google Maps, you can put your latest sighting of a celebrity onto this this site and report in just a few minutes after the fact where your favorite or least favorite celebrity has been seen.
[33:44.730 --> 34:01.190]  So if you're stalking somebody, you have essentially thousands of potential accomplices out there to give you almost real time information if you want to kidnap, molest, harass, attack, whatever you want to your favorite celebrity.
[34:02.630 --> 34:02.990]  Okay.
[34:03.170 --> 34:04.550]  Moving to something a little bit more positive.
[34:04.950 --> 34:13.430]  Movie theater owners are considering asking federal authorities for permission to jam cell phone reception in an attempt to stop annoying conversations during films.
[34:14.110 --> 34:17.770]  That's according to the head of the industry's trade group on Tuesday.
[34:17.930 --> 34:19.710]  Mojo, you seem to have a problem with this.
[34:19.730 --> 34:21.330]  Can we jam the commercials before the movie?
[34:21.330 --> 34:22.250]  Oh, I'd love to do that.
[34:22.630 --> 34:25.010]  I always throw garbage at the screen when the commercials are on.
[34:25.130 --> 34:26.170]  Nobody seems to object.
[34:26.490 --> 34:30.870]  I mean, I'm just curious for everyone here, how often are you in a movie when someone actually does get a call?
[34:31.050 --> 34:31.730]  All the time.
[34:31.770 --> 34:33.030]  I can't remember the last time it happened.
[34:33.030 --> 34:33.130]  Well, you know what?
[34:33.230 --> 34:34.050]  You're from Los Angeles.
[34:34.190 --> 34:36.470]  People respect movies out there because they're probably in them.
[34:36.650 --> 34:36.770]  Yeah.
[34:37.050 --> 34:40.110]  But here, yeah, people not only get phone calls, they pick up the phone.
[34:40.210 --> 34:40.750]  They start having a call.
[34:40.850 --> 34:41.270]  Well, hello.
[34:41.430 --> 34:42.050]  Yeah, I'm in a movie.
[34:42.450 --> 34:43.990]  Can't talk right now, but I'm talking anyway.
[34:44.110 --> 34:44.790]  That happens frequently?
[34:45.050 --> 34:48.890]  That happens at least at least once every two movies I've seen in the last like year.
[34:49.370 --> 34:50.010]  Yeah, and it's annoying.
[34:50.170 --> 34:52.070]  And even if they don't answer it, it still rings.
[34:52.530 --> 34:53.210]  It still rings.
[34:53.410 --> 34:55.450]  Even if it's on vibrate, you hear the vibrate.
[34:55.450 --> 35:00.250]  If people are texting and it's like having a flashlight, you know, it's annoying.
[35:00.610 --> 35:02.030]  So yeah, jam the damn things.
[35:02.150 --> 35:02.730]  And you know what?
[35:02.810 --> 35:06.110]  If you annoy the people that you're with, you got to pay for everybody's movie.
[35:06.250 --> 35:06.490]  All right?
[35:06.590 --> 35:07.630]  That should be the legislation.
[35:07.890 --> 35:08.850]  That should be it right there.
[35:08.910 --> 35:13.350]  I think it has to be approached from a different from a different way.
[35:13.470 --> 35:16.130]  There's a Dunkin' Donuts on the corner of Amherst and Central Avenue.
[35:16.330 --> 35:17.470]  This is in East Orange.
[35:17.590 --> 35:17.730]  Yeah.
[35:17.790 --> 35:19.190]  So we can watch that with a camera, huh?
[35:19.630 --> 35:19.950]  Cool.
[35:20.770 --> 35:21.130]  All right.
[35:21.210 --> 35:24.030]  So any suspicious activity in that Dunkin' Donuts is not going to be happening anymore.
[35:24.030 --> 35:26.550]  At least now you'll know if they still have glazed chocolate on its left.
[35:26.910 --> 35:27.610]  Before you go.
[35:27.910 --> 35:29.890]  Well, that's... BAI is on top of things.
[35:30.010 --> 35:32.410]  We know every corner in every neighborhood, all right?
[35:32.530 --> 35:34.130]  So don't think anything's going to surpass us.
[35:34.170 --> 35:35.530]  We don't need this system at BAI.
[35:35.610 --> 35:36.150]  We just know.
[35:36.290 --> 35:36.670]  That's right.
[35:36.770 --> 35:37.130]  That's right.
[35:37.530 --> 35:45.290]  Anyway, continuing with this story, industry leaders at the Show West Conference for Theater Owners want to find ways to win back crowds.
[35:45.410 --> 35:52.310]  I don't know what's going on with consumers that they have to talk on phones in the middle of theaters, said the president of the National Association of Theater Owners known as NATO.
[35:54.130 --> 35:56.650]  They really are known as NATO, and they have their own airplanes.
[35:57.270 --> 36:06.030]  Theaters are trying a number of ways to silence cell phones from sweeps by ushers to funny fake movie trailers urging viewers to shut off phones.
[36:06.650 --> 36:14.110]  How about just like getting, you know, vigilantes in there to just pull people out of theaters by force if they have their phone on, Walter?
[36:14.250 --> 36:18.130]  We need one of these public camera systems like they have in Jersey in every movie theater.
[36:18.130 --> 36:20.990]  Except you're not allowed to bring cameras into theaters because you might pirate the movie then.
[36:21.990 --> 36:22.350]  See?
[36:22.490 --> 36:24.690]  You could be turned in the other direction, and then you have a whole other problem.
[36:24.730 --> 36:25.790]  You face the audience.
[36:27.730 --> 36:28.090]  Yeah.
[36:28.330 --> 36:33.310]  Anyway, we'll actually petition the Federal Communications Commission to remove the block on jamming cell phones.
[36:33.410 --> 36:34.170]  Now, Bernie, is this true?
[36:34.170 --> 36:35.790]  There's a block on jamming cell phones?
[36:35.910 --> 36:36.390]  Well, yeah.
[36:37.010 --> 36:42.410]  It's against FCC regulations to interfere with that kind of telecommunications.
[36:42.630 --> 36:44.170]  And I think there's a good reason for it.
[36:44.230 --> 36:44.950]  I mean, if there's a...
[36:45.430 --> 36:46.650]  You know, what is it about the law?
[36:46.790 --> 36:53.390]  You can't shout fire in a crowded theater, but you should be able to call 911 from a crowded theater if there is a fire.
[36:53.570 --> 36:56.730]  That way you don't, you know, disturb other people who are in the movie until the...
[36:56.730 --> 36:57.130]  That's true.
[36:57.150 --> 36:59.290]  And you should also be able to shout fire if there is a fire.
[36:59.790 --> 37:00.110]  Ah.
[37:00.390 --> 37:01.970]  I mean, I think that's considerate, right?
[37:02.070 --> 37:02.270]  Yeah.
[37:02.870 --> 37:03.830]  It is allowed.
[37:03.830 --> 37:07.230]  Are you allowed to shout fire in a movie that's being played in a crowded theater?
[37:08.590 --> 37:09.950]  Ah, I think so.
[37:10.030 --> 37:10.830]  That's an interesting question.
[37:10.830 --> 37:12.410]  Only if there's a fire in the movie, though.
[37:12.850 --> 37:13.090]  Okay.
[37:13.950 --> 37:22.330]  Speaking about people getting annoyed with various broadcasts, airline pilots departing from Miami International Airport are getting an earful of something unexpected.
[37:22.570 --> 37:28.330]  Hip-hop tunes from a pirate radio station that sometimes interfere with their communications with the control tower.
[37:28.890 --> 37:33.530]  The music comes on a pair of frequencies from a station that calls itself The Streets.
[37:34.430 --> 37:43.930]  It's intermittent, not all day, every day, said Kathleen Bergen, an FAA spokeswoman, but clear communication between air control and the pilots is a critical part of flying.
[37:44.890 --> 37:45.690]  It's amazing.
[37:45.690 --> 37:53.210]  All the crackdowns they have on pirate radio, and they actually can't seem to find the one that actually is interfering with critical communications.
[37:53.470 --> 37:59.630]  They'll get one that interferes with KROQ or something, but something like this, all of a sudden it makes national news and they can't find it.
[37:59.630 --> 38:13.450]  Well, I'm sure it can be found very easily, but it's a big problem because the air band is right above the FM broadcast band and crappy FM transmitters without proper filtering and bad modulation and all this can very easily produce harmonics in that range.
[38:13.450 --> 38:14.450]  Did you read this story?
[38:14.870 --> 38:30.290]  It says that the police... Here's the story behind the story on this, is that in some states, they've passed legislation allowing local, state and local police law enforcement to enforce radio spectrum regulations.
[38:30.630 --> 38:31.070]  Bad idea.
[38:31.070 --> 38:32.210]  Which I think is a really bad idea.
[38:32.290 --> 38:43.710]  In this case, if you read the story, the same one that I read, the police actually said they found the building where the transmissions were coming from and even found a large antenna, but they couldn't find the transmitter.
[38:43.930 --> 38:45.450]  Well, how hard is that to do?
[38:47.430 --> 38:51.330]  You trace the feet line down to the transmitter and there it is, but very strange.
[38:51.530 --> 38:51.830]  Wow.
[38:52.730 --> 38:54.310]  Now, why is it a bad idea?
[38:54.690 --> 38:55.990]  Because they don't know...
[38:55.990 --> 38:56.870]  They know what they're doing.
[38:57.050 --> 38:57.470]  Yeah, exactly.
[38:58.390 --> 39:00.110]  Okay, and you just proved that they don't.
[39:00.110 --> 39:02.370]  That's why we need better police training.
[39:03.170 --> 39:05.030]  That would be nice, I guess.
[39:05.170 --> 39:06.010]  Well, here's the problem.
[39:06.110 --> 39:33.330]  You would have local law enforcement authorities, police who are, you know, not known for having experience with RF direction finding and measurements such as microvolts per square centimeter sort of measurements that are what the FCC uses to determine whether a signal is outside the bounds of legality or not.
[39:33.450 --> 39:38.670]  And I'm sorry, I don't trust my local police to understand these laws of physics.
[39:39.030 --> 39:46.290]  Maybe a virtual community could be started of citizens who would type a message to the FCC whenever they hear something they don't like on the radio.
[39:46.410 --> 39:47.830]  Wait a minute, that's not a good idea.
[39:48.710 --> 39:49.250]  Strike that.
[39:49.710 --> 39:53.410]  Arsene, I think you had something to say about the upcoming HOPE conference.
[39:53.410 --> 39:57.570]  Okay, well, we want volunteers, obviously, for HOPE.
[39:58.490 --> 40:01.530]  HOPE, and I'll just give out the general contact info.
[40:01.690 --> 40:03.370]  It's volunteers at...
[40:03.370 --> 40:04.930]  2600.com.
[40:04.990 --> 40:05.790]  2600.com.
[40:05.890 --> 40:05.990]  Yeah.
[40:06.170 --> 40:07.630]  So volunteers at 2600.com.
[40:08.110 --> 40:18.470]  But more specifically, since I am sort of heading the movie room this time around, I'm looking for ideas for pieces to show.
[40:18.470 --> 40:23.430]  Now, if you go to the website...
[40:23.430 --> 40:26.050]  www.hope.net, I think it goes to it, right?
[40:26.410 --> 40:26.650]  Yeah.
[40:26.850 --> 40:27.570]  That's an easy one.
[40:27.630 --> 40:27.930]  Or, okay.
[40:28.190 --> 40:29.810]  Hope number six dot...
[40:29.810 --> 40:30.250]  Dot net.
[40:30.470 --> 40:30.650]  Net?
[40:30.850 --> 40:31.030]  Net.
[40:31.250 --> 40:31.450]  Okay.
[40:31.790 --> 40:34.290]  So, hope number six dot net, or hope dot net.
[40:34.690 --> 40:40.430]  There's a wiki, and you can read all about everything, and if you want to volunteer for something specific.
[40:42.170 --> 40:50.310]  Now, with the movie room, I just... I'm looking for anything that hackers think is appropriate to play at a hacker conference.
[40:50.850 --> 40:55.270]  You can email me specifically at arse at 2600.com.
[40:55.370 --> 40:58.410]  That's A-R-S-E at 2600.com.
[40:58.530 --> 40:59.350]  And it's not an insult.
[40:59.350 --> 41:00.030]  That's your real name.
[41:00.090 --> 41:00.410]  Oh, no.
[41:00.530 --> 41:02.190]  That's just like a nickname.
[41:02.470 --> 41:02.910]  Anyway...
[41:02.910 --> 41:05.230]  People in England, they'll use that to insult people.
[41:05.230 --> 41:06.390]  I'm just saying, you know.
[41:06.550 --> 41:08.190]  They might think it's a joke, but that's...
[41:08.190 --> 41:10.310]  Your name is Russian, and that's your real name.
[41:10.430 --> 41:10.790]  Okay, yeah.
[41:10.890 --> 41:12.150]  So, it's immature to laugh, people.
[41:12.150 --> 41:15.950]  Well, this has nothing to do with the fact that we need stuff for hope.
[41:15.950 --> 41:16.670]  No, not at all.
[41:16.970 --> 41:17.450]  Not at all.
[41:17.450 --> 41:19.230]  I'm just pointing it out, because people get easily distracted.
[41:19.430 --> 41:20.450]  Right, so I...
[41:20.450 --> 41:21.830]  Okay, so the movie room.
[41:21.970 --> 41:23.570]  I mean, it's going to be a little bit different this year.
[41:23.630 --> 41:28.230]  We're going to have movies playing consecutively downstairs, but I don't think it's going to be an enclosed area.
[41:28.410 --> 41:33.370]  However, after hours, upstairs, we're going to have movies running all night long in one of the auditorium rooms.
[41:33.430 --> 41:33.690]  Right, exactly.
[41:40.430 --> 41:42.270]  We're going to go into crazy people talking about crazy stuff.
[41:43.170 --> 41:43.610]  That's us.
[41:43.630 --> 41:49.110]  You might also, you know, get tired, and you go downstairs to watch some of these movies.
[41:49.310 --> 41:50.530]  Now, they're not going to...
[41:50.530 --> 41:54.890]  During the daytime, like Emmanuel mentioned, they're not going to be full movies.
[41:54.890 --> 42:00.690]  You're just going to be either really short internet video stuff or maybe some documentaries, like our documentaries.
[42:00.690 --> 42:06.970]  Just short clips that you can just go there, see it, and go back and listen to a talk.
[42:07.270 --> 42:07.470]  Right.
[42:07.790 --> 42:11.090]  And then in the evening, we'll be playing movies upstairs.
[42:11.890 --> 42:15.410]  So little show ideas or little documentaries.
[42:15.810 --> 42:18.910]  If you've made one, if you have one of your own, we'd like to see it.
[42:18.930 --> 42:19.190]  That would be really cool.
[42:19.270 --> 42:26.170]  So if you have a movie, send it or just send me an email, and we can discuss the format, DVD, or however you have it.
[42:26.170 --> 42:27.390]  Ors at 2600.com.
[42:27.530 --> 42:38.750]  And again, if you want to volunteer, we need volunteers to help make this happen, to help make the movie room into a reality, to help get all the equipment and to run it and to set up and tear down and all that kind of thing.
[42:39.590 --> 42:41.250]  Volunteers at 2600.com.
[42:41.410 --> 42:42.770]  We really need your help.
[42:42.850 --> 42:48.150]  In fact, that's how we've done five conferences in the past because of you guys out there who have made it possible.
[42:48.370 --> 42:50.370]  And also, we're looking for speakers still.
[42:50.930 --> 42:52.030]  It's still open.
[42:52.030 --> 42:55.490]  If you have a talk you'd like to give, a panel you'd like to host.
[42:56.170 --> 43:02.170]  Somebody you think would be good to have at the conference, please email speakers at 2600.com.
[43:02.310 --> 43:06.850]  The conference is July 21st, 22nd, 23rd at the Hotel Pennsylvania in New York City.
[43:07.450 --> 43:08.530]  Well worth coming to.
[43:08.990 --> 43:14.050]  McFly, you're from Germany, and I believe you're going to be bringing a whole bunch of people from Germany over.
[43:14.410 --> 43:18.250]  Well, at the moment, we're planning to get some people over.
[43:18.390 --> 43:19.070]  Yes, that's true.
[43:19.110 --> 43:20.890]  And we plan to do some things.
[43:21.350 --> 43:25.470]  In the queue at the moment, we have something like Blinkenlights.
[43:26.050 --> 43:26.570]  Blinkenlights.
[43:27.010 --> 43:27.530]  Blinkenlights.
[43:27.690 --> 43:30.850]  All those have been here to Europe, has probably seen that.
[43:31.090 --> 43:41.170]  Now, just for people who don't know what we're talking about, basically, the Blinkenlights project was something you guys came up with, where every single window in a building would be one pixel of a picture.
[43:41.630 --> 43:46.010]  And you could actually control what turned on, what turned off.
[43:46.210 --> 43:53.770]  People walking by with their phones could do things like play games of Pong on buildings in Germany and in France, too.
[43:53.770 --> 44:05.030]  Yes, we have had this on the National Library of France in Paris, and we have this on Haus des Lehrers in Berlin, which is the building very close to our Congress, usually.
[44:05.730 --> 44:08.150]  And this was good fun, playing Pong on there.
[44:08.390 --> 44:12.850]  And we have a copy of China Sisters and another two games, I think.
[44:12.970 --> 44:14.910]  Now, imagine if we could do that on the United Nations building.
[44:14.910 --> 44:19.190]  I think that's the perfect building to do this, but they've been really obstinate about giving us access.
[44:19.870 --> 44:26.810]  So what we're probably going to wind up doing is just having a display in front of the hotel, which...
[44:26.810 --> 44:28.670]  How big would you say something like that would be?
[44:28.830 --> 44:34.330]  Well, there are two windows on the left side where the people walk by.
[44:34.330 --> 44:40.050]  I think they're up to something about nine feet high and about seven to eight feet wide.
[44:40.270 --> 44:46.870]  And we think about filling those two completely, giving the possibility to play with all the blinking light stuff.
[44:47.030 --> 44:56.250]  And what we think is to get some five, six, seven, eight people from Germany over, infect Americans with a blinking light idea.
[44:56.250 --> 45:02.850]  And on the next hope, we'll possibly have three to five buildings in New York with blinking lights in.
[45:03.030 --> 45:06.730]  Because if there's any city in the world trying for blinking lights, I think it's New York.
[45:06.790 --> 45:07.370]  That's right.
[45:07.630 --> 45:08.890]  Well, that's a dream of mine.
[45:08.950 --> 45:10.030]  So basically, what do we need?
[45:10.090 --> 45:11.610]  We need people to get involved?
[45:11.790 --> 45:13.150]  We need people to get involved.
[45:13.330 --> 45:15.350]  I think the volunteer list is a good place for that.
[45:15.470 --> 45:15.670]  Okay.
[45:16.050 --> 45:22.710]  We need people who are used to work with hands on wood and such stuff.
[45:22.830 --> 45:23.950]  I don't mean keyboards.
[45:23.950 --> 45:26.410]  I really mean cutting wood and...
[45:26.410 --> 45:26.850]  Carpenters.
[45:27.150 --> 45:28.250]  We need carpenters.
[45:28.950 --> 45:34.910]  Well, at least people who are good at homework with that.
[45:35.130 --> 45:36.030]  Carpenters would be best.
[45:36.170 --> 45:39.630]  There are a lot of people like that that are friends of ours that I know will show up and help.
[45:39.850 --> 45:40.150]  Great.
[45:40.870 --> 45:43.870]  Well, you know, hats off to you guys for making it possible in the first place.
[45:44.250 --> 45:48.770]  Over in Germany, it's been such an inspiration to us here because you're able to make these things happen.
[45:48.870 --> 45:51.570]  You're able to put blinking lights on tall buildings.
[45:51.570 --> 45:57.270]  You're able to get huge amounts of bandwidth and just make these things happen that seem impossible.
[45:57.590 --> 46:05.770]  Well, I think if you have a positive view in the main population, you get more than you think before.
[46:05.970 --> 46:08.830]  And with blinking lights, we are now serious arts.
[46:09.210 --> 46:09.670]  That's right.
[46:09.730 --> 46:11.550]  And so we are good with the politics.
[46:11.750 --> 46:13.750]  They want to be half-taking photos with us.
[46:14.270 --> 46:16.090]  And then you get more things than before.
[46:16.470 --> 46:17.530]  I look forward to this.
[46:17.630 --> 46:18.190]  This is going to be fun.
[46:18.630 --> 46:19.050]  Jim?
[46:19.210 --> 46:26.590]  Maybe we should ask if there's anybody out there who happens to own a commercial building in the island of Manhattan.
[46:27.330 --> 46:29.070]  Or even in Jersey City.
[46:29.330 --> 46:29.990]  Or Jersey City.
[46:30.250 --> 46:31.510]  Visible for Manhattan or Queens.
[46:32.090 --> 46:32.570]  Yeah.
[46:32.690 --> 46:35.630]  We could actually probably do this somewhere in the...
[46:35.630 --> 46:37.870]  I hate to use the word because I live in Brooklyn.
[46:38.010 --> 46:43.370]  Relative boondocks because the conference is going to be in the center of Manhattan at 34th and 7th Avenue.
[46:44.270 --> 46:46.170]  Ideally, something nearby would be great.
[46:46.330 --> 46:55.070]  But if you have a commercial building somewhere else and are willing to give it up for the Blinkin' Lights project, we probably would be willing to put it there.
[46:55.270 --> 46:59.450]  McFly, is there a website people can go to to see the previous Blinkin' Lights project?
[46:59.890 --> 47:05.430]  www.blinkenlights.de I will link this in the wiki.
[47:05.690 --> 47:06.950]  How do you spell Blinkin' Lights?
[47:07.910 --> 47:09.270]  Better known in English spelling.
[47:09.470 --> 47:13.490]  B-L-I-N-K-E-N-I-C-H.
[47:13.750 --> 47:16.810]  Okay, so it's Blinkin' B-L-I-N-K-E-N, not Blinkin' I-N-G.
[47:17.790 --> 47:20.550]  If you go to ccc.de, you'll find it.
[47:20.550 --> 47:20.830]  You will find it.
[47:20.930 --> 47:21.810]  Okay, all right.
[47:22.030 --> 47:28.030]  And if you have any questions, email us at OTH at 2600.com and we'll be happy to point you in the right direction.
[47:28.950 --> 47:31.590]  I guess we should open it up for phone calls.
[47:31.710 --> 47:35.470]  212-209-2900 is our phone number.
[47:35.890 --> 47:38.090]  Anybody have any observations before we open up the phones?
[47:39.350 --> 47:39.790]  No?
[47:40.010 --> 47:40.450]  Not a thing?
[47:40.610 --> 47:41.190]  Not a thing?
[47:41.310 --> 47:42.990]  Mojo, you're here from Los Angeles?
[47:44.190 --> 47:45.070]  Any observations?
[47:45.070 --> 47:46.750]  Well, just one thing about...
[47:46.750 --> 47:53.830]  I was thinking about the discussion of theater owners want to stop people from using cell phones and want to start to get people back into theaters.
[47:55.230 --> 48:02.190]  And I think this is an interesting idea where people are applying something to technology that really exists already.
[48:02.530 --> 48:07.310]  I mean, now they want to stop people from being annoyed from cell phone uses in theaters.
[48:07.470 --> 48:11.310]  Well, what about just stopping people who are coughing constantly and talking to each other during the movie?
[48:11.370 --> 48:12.830]  Where's the big drive to just stop that?
[48:12.990 --> 48:16.070]  How about people just act, you know, like civilized people when they're in public?
[48:16.190 --> 48:16.790]  That would be nice.
[48:17.510 --> 48:17.910]  Yeah.
[48:17.990 --> 48:19.410]  Not barbarians in their own living room.
[48:19.410 --> 48:27.070]  So I think it's funny now that there's... I mean, anyone who watched the Academy Awards saw the ridiculous number of people talking about, oh, you can't really enjoy movies on DVD.
[48:27.070 --> 48:28.110]  You have to go to the theater.
[48:28.610 --> 48:28.930]  Right.
[48:29.130 --> 48:30.450]  Mojo does know what he's talking about.
[48:30.530 --> 48:34.610]  I have to say, forgive me for saying this, but you work on the program Battlestar Galactica.
[48:34.750 --> 48:35.650]  You work in effects.
[48:36.110 --> 48:36.310]  Yes.
[48:36.330 --> 48:37.290]  What kind of things do you do?
[48:37.570 --> 48:42.350]  Well, I am one of the visual effects artists, making all the vipers and Cylons fly around and blow each other up.
[48:42.510 --> 48:43.490]  Wow, that's so cool.
[48:43.670 --> 48:44.310]  That's so cool.
[48:44.410 --> 48:45.430]  And you've worked on other programs, too.
[48:45.810 --> 48:48.990]  Yeah, I started with Babylon 5 a long time ago, if anyone's ever seen that.
[48:48.990 --> 48:54.170]  And Star Trek Voyager, and now Battlestar Galactica, living the life of the true nerd.
[48:54.490 --> 48:54.650]  Cool.
[48:54.670 --> 48:55.930]  And you'll be appearing at Icon?
[48:56.130 --> 48:57.210]  That's right, Icon is Saturday.
[48:57.350 --> 48:58.590]  Stony Brook this...
[48:58.590 --> 48:59.670]  5 o'clock is the panel time.
[48:59.790 --> 49:00.570]  5 o'clock Saturday.
[49:00.790 --> 49:04.110]  So come see Mojo talking about all the things he does, all the cool things.
[49:04.650 --> 49:06.790]  Okay, our phone number, 212-209-2900.
[49:06.850 --> 49:07.890]  We have an announcement or something?
[49:08.010 --> 49:09.170]  We have a spelling update.
[49:09.310 --> 49:09.490]  Oh!
[49:09.990 --> 49:10.610]  Blinkin' Lights.
[49:10.810 --> 49:11.030]  Okay.
[49:11.030 --> 49:17.790]  The website is W-W-W dot B-L-I-N-K-E-N-L-I-G-H-T-S dot D-E.
[49:18.070 --> 49:19.730]  Do you have the Hungarian flu, too, Mike?
[49:19.990 --> 49:20.730]  Sounds like you do.
[49:20.870 --> 49:21.450]  I have a cold.
[49:22.130 --> 49:23.030]  I don't think it's Hungarian flu.
[49:23.030 --> 49:24.590]  Boy, they have a long reach, don't they?
[49:24.690 --> 49:24.910]  Yeah.
[49:25.070 --> 49:25.830]  They really do.
[49:26.450 --> 49:27.370]  They're getting all of us.
[49:27.510 --> 49:28.450]  Well, they won't get me.
[49:28.610 --> 49:29.330]  Not easily, anyway.
[49:30.010 --> 49:31.110]  Okay, let's take a phone call.
[49:31.570 --> 49:32.770]  And good evening, you're on Off the Hook.
[49:34.090 --> 49:34.450]  Hello.
[49:34.730 --> 49:35.290]  Hi, how you doing?
[49:35.490 --> 49:36.650]  I'm doing great, how are you?
[49:36.830 --> 49:37.610]  I'm doing just fine.
[49:37.610 --> 49:39.910]  Well, you know, a few things I could complain about, but I won't.
[49:40.250 --> 49:40.450]  Okay.
[49:41.350 --> 49:46.930]  I just wanted to mention, this is Brian O'Hare from Long Island, and do you know who Jeffrey Blank is?
[49:47.850 --> 49:49.150]  That name sounds familiar.
[49:49.430 --> 49:57.130]  Yeah, he has been an active anti-war spokesperson, particularly in Union Square.
[49:57.410 --> 50:02.570]  And he's been arrested numerous times for using a little 10-watt megaphone.
[50:03.590 --> 50:06.510]  So, his group is the No Police State Coalition.
[50:06.750 --> 50:07.230]  I've heard of them.
[50:07.610 --> 50:15.130]  And they have a court case coming up April 11th in Manhattan Criminal Court.
[50:15.170 --> 50:22.590]  But I wanted to let people on Long Island know that he's going to be at the Bayshore Library next Tuesday, the 28th, to give a talk.
[50:22.970 --> 50:23.470]  Okay.
[50:23.530 --> 50:24.070]  And also...
[50:24.070 --> 50:24.830]  What time?
[50:25.170 --> 50:27.290]  7.15 at the Bayshore Library.
[50:27.450 --> 50:27.650]  Okay.
[50:28.070 --> 50:30.190]  And he's going to be at the Brecht Forum April 21st.
[50:30.190 --> 50:33.650]  But if people want to know any more, I'll give you the phone number for the No Police State Coalition.
[50:33.810 --> 50:33.950]  Go ahead.
[50:36.330 --> 50:39.250]  718-945-5188.
[50:39.250 --> 50:40.550]  It's a very important case.
[50:40.550 --> 50:43.530]  He's challenging the city sound permit ordinances.
[50:43.770 --> 50:46.150]  And I know you guys would be very interested in it.
[50:46.150 --> 50:48.070]  Maybe we could do something at the HOPE Conference about it.
[50:48.130 --> 50:48.610]  Oh, definitely.
[50:48.790 --> 50:48.950]  Definitely.
[50:48.950 --> 50:49.550]  Okay.
[50:49.670 --> 50:50.210]  I'll be in touch.
[50:50.330 --> 50:51.130]  Thank you very much.
[50:51.230 --> 50:51.690]  Thanks for calling.
[50:51.850 --> 50:52.030]  Okay.
[50:52.050 --> 50:52.210]  Bye.
[50:52.910 --> 50:53.110]  Yeah.
[50:53.150 --> 50:55.230]  You know, there's a whole lot of people that can get involved in the conference.
[50:55.230 --> 50:56.610]  It's not all about computer hackers.
[50:56.630 --> 50:58.410]  It's all sorts of things coming together.
[50:58.570 --> 51:01.510]  And every time we do this, we learn that all over again.
[51:02.330 --> 51:03.250]  Let's take another call.
[51:03.450 --> 51:04.370]  Let's go over here.
[51:04.790 --> 51:05.350]  Good evening.
[51:05.450 --> 51:05.870]  You're on the air.
[51:06.770 --> 51:07.130]  Emmanuel.
[51:07.390 --> 51:07.750]  How are you doing?
[51:08.590 --> 51:08.870]  Hi.
[51:10.250 --> 51:12.330]  I've listened to your program for many years.
[51:12.430 --> 51:13.230]  I love what you do.
[51:13.510 --> 51:13.950]  Thank you.
[51:14.010 --> 51:14.470]  I love your crew.
[51:14.630 --> 51:15.170]  Thank you very much.
[51:16.210 --> 51:18.770]  I recently found something that I thought might interest you all.
[51:18.950 --> 51:24.850]  I was downloading the files from the DOD Guantanamo release about two weeks ago.
[51:25.090 --> 51:25.970]  Oh, you mean the names?
[51:27.190 --> 51:29.230]  The names, but also the interviews.
[51:29.610 --> 51:31.150]  There are about 2,000 pages of interviews.
[51:31.650 --> 51:31.890]  Okay.
[51:31.970 --> 51:33.350]  Is there a website people can do this?
[51:34.210 --> 51:39.070]  It's a DOD Freedom of Information website, if you can leave it.
[51:39.290 --> 51:43.490]  Well, I mean, they have their own website devoted to releasing information that's been subpoenaed?
[51:43.830 --> 51:44.530]  Yeah, yeah.
[51:44.810 --> 51:45.690]  Do you have an address for that?
[51:46.410 --> 51:47.730]  I don't have it in front of me.
[51:47.750 --> 51:48.410]  You'd have to Google it.
[51:48.490 --> 51:48.670]  Okay.
[51:48.670 --> 51:49.410]  It comes up very easily.
[51:49.710 --> 52:06.910]  In any case, a certain number of those files were revised, and part of the release had to do with the fact that a CD was released at about 5 o'clock on a Friday, and the courier had to take the CD back because it needed to be edited, and then it was released again on the same day.
[52:07.690 --> 52:17.710]  And it turns out that you can club the PDFs by dropping the revised and find the un-redacted files.
[52:17.850 --> 52:19.250]  You mean they still haven't learned?
[52:19.730 --> 52:24.050]  They need to read this document, redacting with confidence, that the NSA publishes.
[52:24.050 --> 52:27.670]  It's a very good document, it's very informative, it tells you exactly how to do it.
[52:27.930 --> 52:28.110]  No, it's true.
[52:28.110 --> 52:28.330]  It's true.
[52:28.410 --> 52:30.250]  Well, the thing is, they use black highlighter.
[52:30.710 --> 52:30.950]  Oh.
[52:31.370 --> 52:32.490]  And so what?
[52:32.490 --> 52:34.250]  You can see what was highlighted out?
[52:34.250 --> 52:36.490]  Yeah, you can compare the two files.
[52:36.650 --> 52:39.170]  So, what have you learned from this?
[52:39.250 --> 52:39.430]  Anything?
[52:40.950 --> 52:44.030]  The redactions were really obscure.
[52:45.270 --> 52:46.870]  You'd have to know why they were important.
[52:47.110 --> 52:48.890]  It's very difficult to understand.
[52:49.190 --> 52:50.050]  They were a couple names.
[52:50.770 --> 52:51.490]  A couple first names.
[52:51.750 --> 52:53.230]  Grab these files now while you can.
[52:53.430 --> 52:53.610]  Yeah.
[52:53.750 --> 52:54.670]  Because it's after this point.
[52:55.090 --> 52:56.670]  Give them to us, too, because I like to see them.
[52:57.150 --> 52:57.810]  All right, all right.
[52:58.310 --> 53:01.270]  So great, keep it up, and just keep going with what you're doing.
[53:01.390 --> 53:02.050]  I love what you do.
[53:02.110 --> 53:02.950]  Thanks, thanks so much.
[53:03.150 --> 53:03.730]  All right, good night.
[53:04.250 --> 53:04.610]  Good to hear that.
[53:05.390 --> 53:07.730]  212-209-2900 is our telephone number.
[53:07.870 --> 53:08.330]  It's off the hook.
[53:08.450 --> 53:09.610]  We're on the air for another couple of minutes.
[53:09.770 --> 53:12.630]  So, if you have something you'd like to pass on, let's go over here.
[53:12.730 --> 53:12.970]  Good evening.
[53:12.990 --> 53:13.410]  You're on the air.
[53:14.690 --> 53:15.150]  Go ahead.
[53:17.250 --> 53:19.810]  Okay, I guess you're in shock because you didn't expect to be picked up so quickly.
[53:20.310 --> 53:21.030]  How about this one?
[53:21.110 --> 53:21.350]  Good evening.
[53:21.430 --> 53:21.930]  You're on the air.
[53:22.470 --> 53:23.610]  Hey, how are you doing, Emmanuel?
[53:23.850 --> 53:24.090]  Okay.
[53:24.250 --> 53:25.350]  What kind of phone are you calling from?
[53:26.170 --> 53:26.450]  Sorry.
[53:26.910 --> 53:27.190]  Wow.
[53:27.630 --> 53:28.510]  I'm on a headset as well.
[53:28.530 --> 53:29.030]  Let me take it off.
[53:29.090 --> 53:29.350]  Hold on.
[53:29.530 --> 53:29.810]  Okay.
[53:31.790 --> 53:33.430]  Wait, you mean now you're driving without the headset?
[53:33.430 --> 53:34.930]  You're driving without the headset now.
[53:35.130 --> 53:35.410]  Uh-oh.
[53:35.990 --> 53:37.110]  Now I'm talking without the headset.
[53:37.270 --> 53:37.530]  How's that?
[53:37.630 --> 53:37.870]  Any better?
[53:37.970 --> 53:38.830]  You don't really sound that much better.
[53:38.850 --> 53:40.410]  Let's just get to the point of your call.
[53:40.530 --> 53:41.330]  What's on your mind?
[53:41.550 --> 53:48.710]  The reason I'm calling is you guys are so brave, so intelligent, but there seems to be one thing that is kind of blocked in your mind, which is...
[53:48.710 --> 53:51.990]  Okay, I'm going to stop you right there because I know where you're going with this.
[53:52.270 --> 53:54.850]  No, the thing is, this is something that annoys me.
[53:55.250 --> 54:00.210]  When you guys argue with us, you have to give us this judgment thing before you give your argument.
[54:00.510 --> 54:01.670]  Just give the argument.
[54:01.850 --> 54:02.730]  Just present the evidence.
[54:02.730 --> 54:08.110]  Don't tell us, hey, you guys are open-minded on some things, but not now, or I can't believe that you feel this way.
[54:08.110 --> 54:08.670]  We do.
[54:08.810 --> 54:09.350]  We feel this way.
[54:09.430 --> 54:09.950]  We thought about it.
[54:10.010 --> 54:10.630]  This is our conclusion.
[54:10.810 --> 54:11.570]  So what's your argument?
[54:11.970 --> 54:12.490]  I got it.
[54:12.530 --> 54:12.870]  I got it.
[54:12.890 --> 54:15.830]  There's a book by James Banford called the...
[54:16.750 --> 54:17.390]  Puzzle Palace?
[54:17.590 --> 54:18.410]  Body of Secrets.
[54:18.610 --> 54:18.750]  Oh.
[54:19.110 --> 54:19.930]  Body of Secrets.
[54:20.010 --> 54:24.750]  And if you look at that book, there are documents released by the Joint Chiefs of Staff that talk about Operation Northwoods.
[54:24.750 --> 54:25.350]  Northwoods.
[54:26.170 --> 54:38.470]  Now, Northwoods was this very elaborate, very well-thought-out plan that discussed, you know, fake markings on airliners to make them look, excuse me, on fighters to make them look like Cuban jets.
[54:38.790 --> 54:46.690]  I mean, you know, the people that are running the DOD, the people that are running the Joint Chiefs, these guys are, you know, they're like, you know, they're deep into it.
[54:46.690 --> 55:02.690]  And to say that they're uncapable, or it's too complex, or there are too many people involved to keep a conspiracy quiet, you know, it took us, it took us, not me or anybody, but I mean, it took the world 30-some-odd years to find out about Northwoods,
[55:02.710 --> 55:09.550]  only because a guy like Banford, you know, knew the system inside and out and had people who could point them in the right direction.
[55:09.730 --> 55:11.730]  So, you know, don't be surprised.
[55:11.730 --> 55:19.490]  All right, look, I don't deny these things exist, these kinds of conspiracies, these people huddled in these rooms coming up with these wild ideas.
[55:19.990 --> 55:28.370]  I'm saying that what we saw on that particular day, for them to pull off something of that magnitude and have no cracks show, that's what I have severe doubts about.
[55:28.490 --> 55:32.430]  Well, this is the same government we just found out can't release an edited CD properly.
[55:32.650 --> 55:42.190]  This is the same government that can't even keep Bush's claim that he didn't know about the breaching of the levees in the Orleans secret because somebody leaked a videotape of him finding out about it.
[55:42.350 --> 55:57.850]  Right, but the fact that he would stand up in front of the entire world and say that should give you some indication of the audacity that's involved and, excuse the word, but, you know, the balls that they have to have to be able to say, you know, that this is how,
[55:57.970 --> 56:05.230]  this is the reason and how quick they were to jump down the entire Arab world's throat.
[56:05.490 --> 56:10.770]  Listen, you're giving lots of reason to suspect, and I agree with that.
[56:11.010 --> 56:24.010]  What I just don't see is the actual evidence looking at what I've seen on that particular day, what's been presented, what experts have said, and I don't believe all the experts could possibly be part of the conspiracy, and that's the only way something like that would be covered up so effectively.
[56:24.430 --> 56:28.410]  But please, keep probing, keep asking, but don't judge people who disagree.
[56:28.670 --> 56:30.830]  All right, let's take one more phone call because we're really out of time.
[56:31.190 --> 56:31.670]  Good evening.
[56:31.810 --> 56:32.410]  You're on the air.
[56:33.330 --> 56:34.270]  Go ahead, quickly.
[56:34.270 --> 56:35.250]  Hello, hi, yes.
[56:35.490 --> 56:47.610]  I made a phone call late in the evening to an 800 number of a business, and I had a recording come back at me that says, this call is being traced.
[56:47.930 --> 56:48.330]  Really?
[56:48.670 --> 56:48.910]  Yes.
[56:49.210 --> 56:57.990]  So I, yeah, I called the telephone person, you know, the zero operator.
[56:58.190 --> 56:58.370]  Right.
[56:58.370 --> 57:01.290]  And I said, what does this mean?
[57:01.430 --> 57:03.250]  And she said, I don't know anything about it.
[57:03.270 --> 57:06.610]  Well, the operator is going to know less than anybody what that means.
[57:06.610 --> 57:07.570]  I can tell you that right now.
[57:08.450 --> 57:15.990]  What you probably want to do is call that other number from a different phone at a different time of day and ask them just what it means, and they might be able to tell you.
[57:16.070 --> 57:17.690]  It could just be a recording on their end.
[57:17.770 --> 57:18.270]  Jim, you have a theory?
[57:18.450 --> 57:19.310]  I have a couple of things.
[57:19.430 --> 57:21.250]  First of all, we'd love to know what the number is.
[57:21.510 --> 57:25.990]  Second of all, any fool with an 800 number can put anything they want on it.
[57:25.990 --> 57:31.330]  But we've had people in the past put in DNS services and whatever.
[57:31.530 --> 57:37.210]  So if you want to play with somebody's mind and you have enough money to spend on an 800 number, that's an excellent idea of what to put on.
[57:37.310 --> 57:38.890]  It was 1-800-YES-FILM.
[57:38.990 --> 57:42.070]  It's a business, you know, for the film movement.
[57:42.250 --> 57:43.750]  1-800-YES-FILM.
[57:43.830 --> 57:44.950]  All right, we'll look into this.
[57:45.070 --> 57:47.270]  Unfortunately, we're out of time right now, so we're going to have to go.
[57:47.530 --> 57:48.950]  But thanks for bringing that to our attention.
[57:49.070 --> 57:54.930]  Of course, if you have any interesting ideas or numbers to give us, OTH at 2600.com is our email address.
[57:55.370 --> 57:56.690]  That's it for Off the Hook this week.
[57:56.850 --> 57:58.530]  We'll be back again next week with more fun.
[57:58.670 --> 58:00.270]  Stay tuned for the Personal Computer Show here.
[58:00.590 --> 58:01.410]  Have a good night.
[58:03.150 --> 58:04.430]  I met this guy.
[58:06.830 --> 58:12.590]  And he looked like he might have been a hat check clerk at an ice rink.
[58:15.630 --> 58:19.670]  Which, in fact, he turned out to be.
[58:20.910 --> 58:29.310]  And I said, oh boy, write again.
[58:39.320 --> 58:43.860]  You know, it could be you.
[58:45.300 --> 58:47.280]  It's a sky blue sky.
[58:50.360 --> 58:52.160]  Satellites are out tonight.
[59:10.350 --> 59:12.850]  You know, I could write a book.
[59:12.850 --> 59:17.790]  And this book would be thick enough to stun an ox.
[59:20.610 --> 59:22.190]  Because I can see the future.
[59:23.550 --> 59:24.930]  And it's a place.
[59:26.530 --> 59:29.850]  About 70 miles east of here, where it's lighter.
[59:33.250 --> 59:36.450]  When you get on over here.
[59:38.710 --> 59:39.890]  Got the time.
[59:45.440 --> 59:46.240]  X.
[01:00:07.250 --> 01:00:10.050]  Ah, yes.
[01:00:11.770 --> 01:00:20.830]  Hey, did you know you're listening to The Personal Computer Show here on WBAI New York 99.5 FM.