[00:04.460 --> 00:06.760]  The telephone keeps ringing.
[00:07.100 --> 00:09.320]  So I ripped it off the wall.
[00:10.280 --> 00:12.280]  I cut myself while shaving.
[00:12.820 --> 00:14.780]  Now I can't make a call.
[00:15.560 --> 00:17.640]  We couldn't get much worse.
[00:20.460 --> 00:23.080]  Bum-diddly-bum for the best expect the worst.
[00:23.660 --> 00:25.580]  I hope that's understood.
[00:25.780 --> 00:26.580]  Bum-diddly-bum!
[01:41.070 --> 01:42.330]  And very good to hear about it.
[01:42.390 --> 01:43.150]  The program is Off The Hook.
[01:43.450 --> 01:47.270]  Emmanuel Goldstein here with you on this sweaty Wednesday night.
[01:47.830 --> 01:48.770]  Well, I'm sweaty anyway.
[01:48.870 --> 01:49.770]  I had to run down Wall Street.
[01:50.530 --> 01:51.130]  Oh boy.
[01:51.370 --> 01:53.050]  This is the pre-hope show.
[01:53.190 --> 01:59.630]  And if you've listened to the five other pre-hope shows we've done, you realize it's the most hectic time for us because we have a conference coming up this weekend.
[01:59.630 --> 02:02.350]  And all sorts of things are happening.
[02:02.790 --> 02:06.290]  And this particular time, we were just at the hotel loading things in.
[02:06.410 --> 02:11.530]  And of course, driving down here, we make it by like one minute and then we can't find a parking space.
[02:11.650 --> 02:12.830]  So I had to run in.
[02:12.990 --> 02:14.110]  Fortunately, there's a fundraiser going on.
[02:14.130 --> 02:14.890]  So we were a bit late.
[02:14.990 --> 02:17.090]  So it worked out anyway.
[02:17.890 --> 02:19.030]  Um, yes.
[02:19.290 --> 02:20.030]  Where's my glass of water?
[02:20.510 --> 02:21.650]  I asked one simple thing.
[02:21.910 --> 02:23.650]  That's the same bottle that somebody gave me before.
[02:23.970 --> 02:25.630]  Who did we send down to get me a glass of water?
[02:26.130 --> 02:26.970]  Did they get lost?
[02:29.050 --> 02:29.690]  Well, somebody.
[02:29.930 --> 02:31.850]  Ropp is on his way.
[02:32.050 --> 02:33.150]  Okay, I hope he didn't go to the store.
[02:33.490 --> 02:36.390]  You know, I run down Wall Street like a maniac to get here in time.
[02:36.390 --> 02:37.070]  All out of breath.
[02:37.410 --> 02:38.330]  My throat is all dry.
[02:38.390 --> 02:39.430]  I just asked for a glass of water.
[02:39.550 --> 02:39.830]  That's all.
[02:40.250 --> 02:42.170]  So there's 50 people in the studio.
[02:43.150 --> 02:44.770]  And I can't get a glass of water.
[02:44.950 --> 02:45.630]  This is insane.
[02:47.530 --> 02:49.510]  Well, let's, uh, let's start to introduce people.
[02:49.630 --> 02:51.070]  Maybe I'll go myself and get one.
[02:51.710 --> 02:52.770]  Uh, okay.
[02:52.850 --> 02:54.270]  We got our usual cast of characters here.
[02:54.370 --> 02:54.890]  Mike is here.
[02:55.070 --> 02:55.470]  Hi.
[02:55.470 --> 02:56.150]  And Jim.
[02:56.370 --> 02:56.590]  Hello.
[02:57.190 --> 02:57.830]  And Redbird.
[02:57.990 --> 02:58.330]  Good evening.
[02:58.650 --> 03:00.450]  And I guess that's it for the regular cast.
[03:00.610 --> 03:02.250]  And everybody else is... Oh, there's Arseny over there.
[03:02.570 --> 03:03.090]  How you doing?
[03:03.410 --> 03:03.730]  Hi.
[03:03.890 --> 03:04.690]  And I see Porkchop.
[03:05.390 --> 03:06.130]  Good day, everyone.
[03:06.430 --> 03:07.830]  And, uh, there's Lynn over there.
[03:08.350 --> 03:08.670]  Hello.
[03:09.410 --> 03:12.230]  And, uh, well, everybody else, go around the room and introduce yourselves.
[03:12.330 --> 03:13.230]  There's just too damn many of you.
[03:13.370 --> 03:14.830]  Well, they should come here and not go around.
[03:14.830 --> 03:15.230]  Well, okay.
[03:15.450 --> 03:20.230]  We're not going to bring the mic to you, so everybody just sort of come up and give a sense of how many people are here.
[03:20.230 --> 03:21.530]  Hi, my name is Mitch Altman.
[03:21.590 --> 03:22.830]  I invented TV Be Gone.
[03:23.010 --> 03:23.650]  Oh, you're the one.
[03:25.070 --> 03:26.510]  Oh, Rob, you have my glass.
[03:26.650 --> 03:26.870]  Thank you.
[03:27.130 --> 03:27.810]  This is McFly.
[03:27.930 --> 03:29.010]  I'll do the CDF on the hook.
[03:31.110 --> 03:31.310]  All right.
[03:31.390 --> 03:32.170]  McFly, you've been on before.
[03:32.370 --> 03:32.530]  Hey, it's Pyro.
[03:32.990 --> 03:33.830]  Pyro, how you doing?
[03:34.570 --> 03:35.610]  There's all these people here.
[03:35.610 --> 03:37.370]  All right, everybody, try not to talk at the same time.
[03:38.050 --> 03:39.890]  Mike, you talked over the last person who...
[03:39.890 --> 03:41.310]  Say that again, whoever you were.
[03:42.150 --> 03:42.430]  Lurid.
[03:42.830 --> 03:43.110]  Lurid.
[03:43.210 --> 03:44.010]  Okay, yes, yes.
[03:44.190 --> 03:44.630]  We know about you.
[03:45.210 --> 03:45.490]  Okay.
[03:46.510 --> 03:46.790]  Kevin.
[03:47.170 --> 03:47.510]  All right.
[03:47.810 --> 03:49.290]  Kevin, you were on Off the Wall last night, weren't you?
[03:49.370 --> 03:49.710]  I was.
[03:49.870 --> 03:50.090]  Yeah.
[03:50.230 --> 03:51.210]  Matthew from the UK.
[03:51.410 --> 03:52.690]  I'll be talking about Turing, I hope.
[03:53.110 --> 03:53.830]  You'll be talking about what?
[03:54.210 --> 03:54.570]  Turing.
[03:54.730 --> 03:55.190]  Alan Turing.
[03:55.410 --> 03:55.970]  Oh, Alan Turing.
[03:56.130 --> 03:56.630]  Okay, great.
[03:56.790 --> 03:56.930]  Great.
[03:56.990 --> 03:57.770]  We talked about that panel.
[03:58.670 --> 03:59.150]  Keep going.
[03:59.450 --> 04:00.250]  Hi, my name is Jens.
[04:00.330 --> 04:01.930]  I'm from the Chaos Computer Club in Germany.
[04:02.270 --> 04:03.490]  Oh, you guys cause a lot of trouble.
[04:04.810 --> 04:06.510]  Chaos Computer Club, one of our favorite groups.
[04:06.850 --> 04:07.390]  Stank Dog.
[04:07.670 --> 04:08.170]  Stank Dog.
[04:08.290 --> 04:08.590]  How you doing?
[04:08.670 --> 04:09.430]  From Florida, right?
[04:09.650 --> 04:10.030]  Got it.
[04:10.390 --> 04:10.630]  Cool.
[04:11.770 --> 04:13.610]  This is Kodemong from the Chaos Computer Club, too.
[04:14.170 --> 04:14.570]  All right.
[04:14.770 --> 04:15.670]  We have a lot of Germans here.
[04:16.050 --> 04:16.290]  Yes.
[04:16.490 --> 04:16.610]  Cool.
[04:16.610 --> 04:17.410]  How many Germans in the room?
[04:17.850 --> 04:18.090]  Three.
[04:20.410 --> 04:21.210]  Twelve in the city.
[04:21.950 --> 04:22.590]  Twelve total?
[04:22.710 --> 04:23.470]  Well, it's more than that.
[04:23.710 --> 04:24.990]  Twelve for us in the city.
[04:25.190 --> 04:25.270]  Okay.
[04:26.030 --> 04:27.230]  Red Hecht, look at you.
[04:27.670 --> 04:28.470]  Come up and say hi.
[04:29.170 --> 04:29.370]  Hi.
[04:29.730 --> 04:30.410]  Did we leave everybody?
[04:30.790 --> 04:31.470]  Rob, did you say hi?
[04:32.070 --> 04:32.390]  Hello.
[04:32.710 --> 04:33.050]  How you doing?
[04:34.170 --> 04:37.390]  Rob is going to be part of the Off the Hook Indecent Hour on Friday.
[04:37.970 --> 04:39.170]  And what that means is...
[04:39.170 --> 04:47.830]  The reason Rob is going to be part of that is because every time he comes on the air here, he accidentally says something indecent and gets us in a lot of trouble because they're not used to the same kind of restrictions over in Europe.
[04:47.830 --> 04:49.010]  In fact, Andy does the same thing.
[04:49.130 --> 04:53.630]  Andy from CCC comes over here occasionally and lets us with a word that we're not allowed to say.
[04:53.890 --> 05:02.950]  On Friday at the Hope Conference, Friday 8 p.m., not on the radio, we're going to do an indecent program, what the FCC might call an indecent program.
[05:03.290 --> 05:07.990]  We think it's going to be a pretty damn decent program ourselves, if I might say so myself, over these airwaves.
[05:08.030 --> 05:11.190]  And I might say it a bit stronger in the crowd on Friday.
[05:11.190 --> 05:13.310]  So, come on down to the conference.
[05:13.970 --> 05:19.270]  Registration actually starts tomorrow at the Hotel Pennsylvania, right there on the first floor of the pavilion entrance.
[05:19.470 --> 05:21.190]  I think, Mike, do you know what time it starts?
[05:21.450 --> 05:24.670]  No, but I know the answer is on our website, which is hope.net.
[05:24.830 --> 05:25.570]  Okay, hope.net.
[05:25.930 --> 05:26.290]  Arseny?
[05:26.570 --> 05:29.650]  Yeah, did you forget to mention about the indecent mail?
[05:30.890 --> 05:33.870]  Maybe I just haven't gotten to it yet, but since you've jumped ahead, go right ahead.
[05:33.870 --> 05:36.910]  All our listeners should send us indecent mail.
[05:37.210 --> 05:38.510]  I already got one from Mike.
[05:38.570 --> 05:39.750]  It was very to the point.
[05:40.350 --> 05:44.850]  I can't say it, but we need more indecent mail.
[05:45.470 --> 05:46.270]  That's good stuff.
[05:46.410 --> 05:46.770]  Okay, yeah.
[05:48.590 --> 05:49.690]  You know what I did forget to do?
[05:49.710 --> 05:50.390]  I forgot to call Bernie.
[05:51.250 --> 05:51.510]  Oh, no.
[05:51.690 --> 05:53.910]  Yeah, so you want to call Bernie?
[05:54.090 --> 05:54.370]  Thank you.
[05:55.390 --> 06:00.070]  Do we want to clarify the difference between indecent and out-of-control profane?
[06:00.530 --> 06:02.710]  Well, if you can do so without giving examples, yeah, go ahead.
[06:02.710 --> 06:10.170]  Well, we're looking for constructive messages that we normally may not be able to read over the air because of F.C.
[06:10.170 --> 06:19.490]  We will do the kind of show that you can bring your toddler to, and they probably won't be any more scarred by anything in that radio show than anything else they may have seen that day.
[06:19.850 --> 06:21.050]  That's what we'd like to think.
[06:21.670 --> 06:23.370]  So indecent does not mean profane.
[06:23.470 --> 06:24.590]  Indecent does not mean stupid.
[06:25.590 --> 06:28.850]  Indecent, in many cases, is the state of the world.
[06:28.990 --> 06:30.450]  We don't live in a very decent world.
[06:30.450 --> 06:37.870]  But the thing I have a real problem with is just being labeled as indecent by a bunch of people who really don't know any better themselves.
[06:38.350 --> 06:39.910]  Bernie, sorry to call you so late.
[06:40.430 --> 06:40.770]  It's okay.
[06:41.510 --> 06:45.650]  It's just been crazy here, literally running around the city and making it by a hair's breadth.
[06:46.450 --> 06:46.990]  I understand.
[06:47.370 --> 06:49.390]  We have to raise money tonight, too, on top of everything else.
[06:49.470 --> 06:50.610]  And we have 50 people in the studio.
[06:50.750 --> 06:51.530]  I don't know how we're going to do this.
[06:51.930 --> 06:53.630]  But our listeners will help us, I'm sure.
[06:54.950 --> 07:02.230]  Well, I want to say hello to everybody who traversed great distances to come to New York for the Hope Conference this weekend.
[07:02.850 --> 07:06.110]  Unfortunately, a lot of them are in this room and they can't hear you because they don't have headphones.
[07:06.290 --> 07:07.070]  So Bernie says hello.
[07:07.670 --> 07:08.070]  Yes.
[07:08.530 --> 07:09.070]  Hi, Bernie.
[07:09.630 --> 07:09.890]  Yeah.
[07:10.630 --> 07:11.710]  It's quite a scene here.
[07:12.670 --> 07:14.470]  I don't think there's ever been this many people.
[07:14.610 --> 07:15.690]  I don't think we've really...
[07:15.690 --> 07:17.790]  Yeah, this is more crowd than I ever can recall.
[07:18.150 --> 07:19.410]  I know it seems to be here right now.
[07:20.630 --> 07:22.750]  So hopefully everybody here will make a pledge to the station, too.
[07:22.810 --> 07:23.450]  That would be nice, wouldn't it?
[07:24.710 --> 07:27.350]  If everybody pledged $10, we'd do better than we did last week.
[07:27.910 --> 07:30.750]  Should we tell our listeners how they can make a pledge, too?
[07:30.830 --> 07:31.030]  Yeah.
[07:31.170 --> 07:36.410]  Even though we just did it right before the show and that's why we were late, let's do it again quickly and we'll do it more in detail later on during the show.
[07:36.510 --> 07:37.930]  They can call 212.
[07:38.150 --> 07:38.930]  Wow, $10 already.
[07:40.250 --> 07:40.890]  209-2950.
[07:40.890 --> 07:45.510]  And there are some volunteers back there who will tell you everything else you need to know.
[07:46.230 --> 07:46.570]  Okay.
[07:46.930 --> 07:47.550]  Okay, Arshney.
[07:47.750 --> 07:48.390]  How many volunteers?
[07:49.070 --> 07:50.270]  There's only a couple, actually.
[07:50.410 --> 07:53.390]  So maybe if some of us wanted to volunteer, it would be appreciated.
[07:53.390 --> 08:00.710]  I was going to say maybe some of us will go there and then our listeners who are going to give us money will also be able to talk to anyone that is from the studio.
[08:01.310 --> 08:02.790]  You can find out what it's really like.
[08:03.010 --> 08:03.690]  That would be exciting.
[08:03.810 --> 08:03.950]  Yeah.
[08:04.910 --> 08:08.590]  And also, if you don't get through the first time, try calling again.
[08:08.690 --> 08:09.070]  Keep trying.
[08:09.070 --> 08:13.930]  If we have one of the German guys volunteer, you can pledge in either English or German.
[08:14.130 --> 08:14.570]  Yes.
[08:14.570 --> 08:16.550]  Which is something that probably hasn't been done before.
[08:16.730 --> 08:19.190]  If that's your thing, then yeah, I guess you could do that.
[08:19.590 --> 08:22.810]  But 212-209-2950 is our phone number.
[08:23.350 --> 08:26.470]  Okay, let's talk about hope because that's the big thing this week.
[08:27.750 --> 08:29.310]  Did anybody bring one of the programs with them?
[08:29.630 --> 08:31.970]  I brought a bunch down in the van, but I forgot to take mine.
[08:32.250 --> 08:34.890]  And I guess everybody who rode with me forgot to take one too.
[08:35.370 --> 08:36.990]  We've got enough content here, I think.
[08:37.150 --> 08:37.530]  Yeah, we do.
[08:37.610 --> 08:37.790]  We do.
[08:37.870 --> 08:42.070]  But the program has just come out and we want to show it off.
[08:42.130 --> 08:45.270]  We have a bunch of other things that we're going to be giving out at the conference.
[08:45.270 --> 08:47.610]  But what are some of the highlights that you can think of?
[08:47.850 --> 08:48.710]  We have a schedule here.
[08:48.710 --> 08:51.150]  There's all sorts of really fun things happening.
[08:51.630 --> 08:56.790]  One of the things that I should mention first before I forget is for all the ham radio listeners out there.
[08:56.870 --> 08:57.430]  I didn't think you were going to forget.
[08:57.810 --> 08:58.830]  You knew that was coming.
[08:58.930 --> 08:59.490]  You knew it was coming.
[08:59.610 --> 09:02.310]  I think the odds of you forgetting this are very, very small.
[09:03.070 --> 09:07.830]  So we're going to have this great special event station occurring at Hope.
[09:08.330 --> 09:10.130]  Its call sign will be N6H.
[09:10.330 --> 09:13.470]  And we're going to have radio set up on VHF, UHF, HF.
[09:13.590 --> 09:17.630]  And any attendees welcome to come along and play around, make contacts all around the world.
[09:17.730 --> 09:18.150]  It'll be great.
[09:18.150 --> 09:19.790]  So do you have to have a ham license to do this?
[09:19.890 --> 09:20.330]  No, you don't.
[09:20.510 --> 09:21.390]  So how does this work then?
[09:21.570 --> 09:24.570]  Somebody without a ham license is able to walk up to this microphone and just go crazy?
[09:24.710 --> 09:25.010]  Absolutely.
[09:25.130 --> 09:32.610]  As long as there's a control operator present, which means that someone who already has a license is there to make sure you're doing everything correctly, you're fine.
[09:32.930 --> 09:33.610]  Okay, interesting.
[09:33.810 --> 09:35.090]  So they don't say anything indecent.
[09:35.290 --> 09:39.150]  Well, I mean, not to provoke anybody, but what if they did say something indecent?
[09:39.250 --> 09:41.530]  Do you just have to sort of tackle them at the time they do that?
[09:41.630 --> 09:44.690]  You have to apologize on the air just in case the FCC is listening.
[09:45.190 --> 09:45.390]  Uh-huh.
[09:45.390 --> 09:49.210]  Well, right, we try to maintain control over that sort of stuff.
[09:49.210 --> 09:54.370]  I don't think anybody at our conference is really going to be out of control, so it's not really going to be an issue.
[09:54.490 --> 09:59.410]  No, I'm just sort of asking, you know, I wonder if the rules can apply here, you know, at a radio station like this.
[09:59.550 --> 10:00.670]  Oh, the tackling rule?
[10:00.670 --> 10:04.690]  Well, not the tackling rule so much, it's just if somebody says something untoward, you apologize and you move on.
[10:04.970 --> 10:07.390]  Wouldn't that be great if I had a designated tackler?
[10:08.030 --> 10:10.850]  I think we might, but I haven't seen him in a while.
[10:11.270 --> 10:11.990]  You're volunteering?
[10:12.250 --> 10:12.410]  Okay.
[10:13.370 --> 10:23.910]  So in addition to the station, we're also going to be holding a VE session on Sunday, which means if you're looking to get a license, if you're looking to upgrade your license, you're welcome to come and take an exam.
[10:23.910 --> 10:24.790]  VE meaning?
[10:25.070 --> 10:25.970]  Volunteer examinator.
[10:26.170 --> 10:26.630]  Volunteer, okay.
[10:26.870 --> 10:27.690]  Volunteer examinator?
[10:27.970 --> 10:28.450]  Examinator.
[10:28.530 --> 10:28.910]  I'm sorry.
[10:29.310 --> 10:29.550]  Okay.
[10:29.670 --> 10:30.770]  It's very simple, by the way.
[10:30.830 --> 10:33.510]  I might add, it's very simple to get an amateur radio license.
[10:33.810 --> 10:42.530]  I mean, you can have your own radio station, not for broadcasting music, but for talking to people around the world for free without having to go through phone lines or internet connections.
[10:42.730 --> 10:43.970]  It's a pretty amazing thing.
[10:44.390 --> 10:51.250]  And I dragged a friend of mine who's an accountant into one of these VE sessions once a couple years ago.
[10:51.250 --> 10:54.310]  He had very little technical knowledge, hardly any at all.
[10:54.570 --> 10:55.870]  And he was flabbergasted.
[10:55.870 --> 10:57.070]  He couldn't believe that he passed.
[10:58.090 --> 11:01.570]  So really, literally, five-year-olds have passed this test.
[11:01.810 --> 11:02.670]  This is not hard.
[11:02.810 --> 11:04.270]  Five-year-olds are taking the ham license.
[11:04.430 --> 11:04.930]  This is true.
[11:05.230 --> 11:06.550]  So why do they have this test?
[11:06.790 --> 11:07.350]  Yeah, really.
[11:07.490 --> 11:09.550]  It sounds like a dog could pass it.
[11:09.750 --> 11:10.510]  It's really...
[11:10.510 --> 11:20.210]  I mean, I'm all for it, really, because it just shows that you have a modicum of technical knowledge and expertise and that you understand the rules and regulations.
[11:20.210 --> 11:25.370]  I mean, it's just basic competency testing.
[11:26.150 --> 11:28.870]  And it's, you know, it's not hard.
[11:29.010 --> 11:30.470]  You're going to find basic electronics there.
[11:30.590 --> 11:32.010]  You're going to find FCC regulations.
[11:32.010 --> 11:34.510]  You're going to find some information about the service itself.
[11:34.630 --> 11:35.350]  How about Morse code?
[11:35.530 --> 11:39.770]  Morse code is only on the extra or general class exam.
[11:39.890 --> 11:42.770]  So for the entry-level exam, you do not need to know Morse code.
[11:43.170 --> 11:44.990]  So it should be pretty fun.
[11:45.150 --> 11:46.330]  Anybody's welcome to attend that.
[11:46.370 --> 11:49.090]  You don't even actually have to register for Hope to take the VE.
[11:49.090 --> 11:50.290]  Okay, so that will be on Sunday.
[11:50.550 --> 11:51.150]  Do you have a time?
[11:51.910 --> 11:52.930]  Bernie, do we have a time?
[11:53.710 --> 11:59.830]  We think it's going to be Sunday morning, of course, when everybody's sleeping, from like 30 or 10 o'clock.
[12:00.150 --> 12:08.030]  Check the hope.net website and go to the wiki for amateur radio, and you'll find out when exactly the VE session will be.
[12:08.070 --> 12:09.070]  It'll be Sunday morning sometime.
[12:09.070 --> 12:12.030]  Come to the registration desk, and you'll be pointed in the right direction.
[12:12.030 --> 12:14.310]  But there's so much going else on it, Hope.
[12:14.730 --> 12:17.690]  I mean, there's like, what, how many different panel discussions are there, Emmanuel?
[12:18.030 --> 12:19.290]  Close to 100, actually.
[12:19.450 --> 12:24.610]  And that doesn't even count the unscheduled panels, which are full all three days as well.
[12:24.930 --> 12:40.290]  In addition to panels, we've got workshops and seminars of all sorts and just games that will be played, and the lockpicking village, the hack center, which is basically where people come bring their computers and set up shop, and just, you know, get on the net or play games,
[12:40.370 --> 12:41.490]  whatever it is they want to do.
[12:42.390 --> 12:44.910]  It's just, we have a huge vendor area.
[12:45.290 --> 12:46.590]  Mike, do you want to talk about that a little bit?
[12:46.650 --> 12:48.110]  We have more vendors now than ever before.
[12:48.270 --> 12:48.690]  More and more.
[12:48.910 --> 12:50.710]  And just like, another one emailed me today.
[12:51.290 --> 12:52.650]  There's always lots of vendors.
[12:53.350 --> 12:55.570]  We have some book publishers.
[12:56.310 --> 12:59.310]  We have some security companies.
[12:59.350 --> 13:01.610]  We have electronics vendors.
[13:01.990 --> 13:04.350]  We have this, that, and the other.
[13:04.350 --> 13:12.530]  There, and all these people will be sitting at tables and explaining to you what they're all about and possibly selling you some things.
[13:13.490 --> 13:14.050]  Cool, cool.
[13:14.370 --> 13:14.970]  And, of course, 2600.
[13:14.970 --> 13:17.010]  I'll be giving away free stuff, too.
[13:17.230 --> 13:21.670]  If you come to the conference, there's a chance you can get some of their merchandise for free.
[13:21.870 --> 13:22.350]  That's true.
[13:22.370 --> 13:24.450]  But you shouldn't rely on that because that's on the end.
[13:24.570 --> 13:28.210]  So if there's something you really want, you should get it before that.
[13:28.770 --> 13:28.890]  Yep.
[13:29.310 --> 13:29.530]  Okay.
[13:29.590 --> 13:33.390]  Porkchop, you've been involved in conferences since, I believe, the second one, Beyond Hope.
[13:33.390 --> 13:34.230]  Yeah, that's right.
[13:34.230 --> 13:35.950]  Since 1997, it was.
[13:36.070 --> 13:37.870]  So you've seen them pretty much develop.
[13:38.170 --> 13:40.910]  How do you think we've gotten so far?
[13:41.170 --> 13:42.370]  How does this one differ from the others?
[13:42.470 --> 13:47.130]  I can certainly tell you the conference has progressed a lot since 1997.
[13:47.370 --> 13:52.450]  I mean, our bandwidth has increased again.
[13:54.250 --> 13:57.070]  I don't even know how much bandwidth we have this year.
[13:57.150 --> 13:58.530]  We've got actually the guy in the studio.
[13:58.650 --> 13:59.830]  Yeah, Pyro, can I probably answer that?
[14:00.190 --> 14:02.530]  Come up to the microphone and tell us just what we're in for.
[14:02.530 --> 14:03.150]  Well, let's put it this way.
[14:03.410 --> 14:04.190]  Well over 100.
[14:04.470 --> 14:05.170]  100 megabits.
[14:05.270 --> 14:05.890]  100 megabits.
[14:06.030 --> 14:14.590]  That's not, you know, just from the rainbow broadband connection, not including what NAC has generously given us.
[14:14.910 --> 14:15.290]  Okay.
[14:15.490 --> 14:22.210]  So now, just to put that in perspective for people who might not know what these numbers mean, the average person has access to what in their home?
[14:22.570 --> 14:27.230]  You figure this is about 10 to 20 times faster than a cable modem.
[14:27.230 --> 14:31.030]  10 to 20 times faster than a cable modem at its max, is what you're saying.
[14:31.810 --> 14:33.770]  If you could ever get a cable modem at its max.
[14:33.810 --> 14:34.530]  Yeah, which you never do.
[14:35.590 --> 14:38.390]  Okay, and we've had T1s in the past.
[14:38.430 --> 14:41.230]  I think the last conference ran on the equivalent of two T1s.
[14:41.310 --> 14:45.250]  And what we're looking at now is roughly based on how many times faster.
[14:45.450 --> 14:45.930]  Let's see.
[14:47.170 --> 14:49.790]  About, let's see, a T1 is about 1.5.
[14:50.230 --> 14:55.830]  We're looking at about 9 to 10, possibly more, combined between Rainbow and NAC.
[14:56.430 --> 14:56.690]  Okay.
[14:58.270 --> 14:59.410]  So, much faster.
[14:59.650 --> 15:00.030]  Oh, yeah.
[15:00.170 --> 15:00.590]  Much faster.
[15:00.590 --> 15:03.510]  And faster than, I think, any hacker conference in the States, ever.
[15:03.730 --> 15:04.990]  Not as fast as the Germans.
[15:05.210 --> 15:06.210]  I don't know how they do it.
[15:06.470 --> 15:08.850]  I think I heard laughter from Rob in the corner.
[15:09.970 --> 15:11.010]  He's laughing at us again?
[15:13.130 --> 15:14.590]  Rob can't talk on this show.
[15:14.670 --> 15:16.150]  He can only talk on the Andesians show.
[15:16.210 --> 15:19.530]  Well, Rob, if you can keep it clean, you can talk about various things.
[15:20.050 --> 15:22.490]  But Rob has coordinated conferences in the past.
[15:22.670 --> 15:24.830]  In fact, he's one of the inspirations for us.
[15:26.450 --> 15:33.410]  Galactic Hacker Party, 1989, Hacking at the End of the Universe, HAL 2001, What the Hack, all these great Dutch conferences.
[15:33.570 --> 15:39.670]  And, of course, the CCC conferences as well, the annual congress and the camps that are taking place.
[15:39.770 --> 15:41.730]  Do you guys know if there's going to be a camp next year?
[15:41.830 --> 15:42.930]  If there's supposed to be a German camp?
[15:43.050 --> 15:43.430]  There is.
[15:43.530 --> 15:43.910]  Thumbs up?
[15:44.410 --> 15:45.330]  Thumbs sort of down?
[15:45.570 --> 15:46.290]  Thumbs to the side?
[15:46.370 --> 15:46.790]  What does that mean?
[15:46.790 --> 15:51.330]  I see, like, a 75% up thumb, I think, was...
[15:51.330 --> 15:52.510]  Undecided, but looks good.
[15:52.670 --> 15:53.070]  Looks good.
[15:53.170 --> 15:53.350]  Okay.
[15:53.550 --> 15:53.870]  All right.
[15:54.290 --> 15:56.430]  I have to say, going to HAL really opened...
[15:56.430 --> 15:57.230]  HAL, not HAL.
[15:57.510 --> 15:57.870]  HAL.
[15:57.950 --> 15:58.410]  H-A-L.
[15:58.470 --> 15:58.930]  I wasn't sure there.
[16:00.350 --> 16:02.430]  It was a pretty amazing experience.
[16:02.430 --> 16:04.710]  I mean, I did learn a lot there.
[16:04.830 --> 16:08.590]  I saw a lot there, camping out in the middle of the...
[16:08.590 --> 16:17.890]  Well, not the middle of the woods, of course, but it was in the middle of an educational facility, and I don't know, it put a lot of heart in me.
[16:18.090 --> 16:18.310]  Uh-huh.
[16:18.630 --> 16:18.810]  Cool.
[16:18.870 --> 16:19.610]  Yeah, it does change you.
[16:19.710 --> 16:19.950]  It does change.
[16:19.990 --> 16:25.250]  And I've heard the same thing said for people who come to the HALP conferences, that their lives are forever changed in a positive way.
[16:25.390 --> 16:26.590]  That's always nice to hear.
[16:26.690 --> 16:28.350]  It makes us think that it's worth doing.
[16:28.990 --> 16:31.250]  And boy, it takes a lot to get these things together.
[16:31.410 --> 16:35.690]  When we started the first one, it was, you know, a fairly small thing, but to us, it was a huge thing.
[16:36.310 --> 16:41.030]  It had never been done before, and we worked really hard at it.
[16:41.030 --> 16:44.750]  And now it's just grown exponentially, and we're doing so many more things.
[16:44.770 --> 16:56.270]  But you still get that same sense of thrill to the whole thing, that, you know, you're sort of doing something for the first time, and there are so many things we're trying this time in 2006 that we never tried before, that we hope will work out.
[16:56.750 --> 16:58.770]  So come on down and enjoy yourselves.
[16:59.110 --> 17:01.450]  It's not too late to register at the door.
[17:02.090 --> 17:05.630]  That opens up tomorrow afternoon and runs through the weekend.
[17:06.250 --> 17:12.990]  And more information, www.hope.net, including a full list of panels, speakers, and other activities and events.
[17:14.370 --> 17:15.110]  And Jim, yes.
[17:15.230 --> 17:22.070]  Yeah, if somebody is just turning in for the first time and decides that they want to come to this thing, we have not mentioned where it is.
[17:22.130 --> 17:32.590]  It's going to be in the heart of Manhattan, across from Penn Station at the Hotel Pennsylvania, which is at 7th Avenue, between 33rd and 32nd Streets.
[17:33.190 --> 17:33.470]  Yes.
[17:34.610 --> 17:36.270]  And we're right there on the ground floor.
[17:36.450 --> 17:37.190]  You'll see us.
[17:37.330 --> 17:39.650]  If you cross Penn Station, you'll see us right there.
[17:39.850 --> 17:40.710]  And when is it?
[17:41.030 --> 17:41.770]  Who said that?
[17:42.330 --> 17:42.710]  Okay.
[17:42.810 --> 17:43.330]  When is it?
[17:43.810 --> 17:47.290]  Well, it technically begins Friday, I think, 10 in the morning is the first talk.
[17:47.310 --> 17:50.410]  But if you want to make that first talk, you better get there earlier so that you can...
[17:50.410 --> 17:52.250]  I think we said registration will start at 9.
[17:52.450 --> 17:52.810]  At 9?
[17:52.890 --> 17:53.090]  Okay.
[17:53.670 --> 18:00.330]  So be there then, and that way you'll have plenty of time to get upstairs and see the panels and see the rest of the place as well.
[18:00.450 --> 18:06.890]  But figure on spending the entire weekend there if you do come, because the price of admission covers everything for that entire weekend.
[18:07.850 --> 18:08.650]  And you'll...
[18:09.170 --> 18:18.750]  As Bernie's being attacked in the streets there in Philadelphia, I think you'll find it well worth whatever it is that you invest to get to New York and stay someplace.
[18:19.130 --> 18:25.390]  Again, you know, if you're in a different city, it's still not too late to find a way to hear, because this is what people are going to be talking about for a long time to come.
[18:26.250 --> 18:27.290]  There's been publicity.
[18:27.530 --> 18:28.750]  I've got a couple of articles here.
[18:30.130 --> 18:33.350]  This is from the Dayton Daily News.
[18:33.710 --> 18:35.790]  How ever did we get in the Dayton Daily News?
[18:36.470 --> 18:40.590]  Hackers want to help be understood, improve their image.
[18:41.190 --> 18:45.510]  Convention in New York aims to show not all hackers are malicious cyber thieves.
[18:46.230 --> 18:48.550]  Organizer from Dayton says...
[18:48.550 --> 18:48.730]  Wow.
[18:49.490 --> 18:50.890]  Do you have an organizer in Dayton?
[18:50.970 --> 18:52.090]  Well, let's read on and find out.
[18:52.170 --> 18:58.650]  Many people think a hacker is someone who breaks through computer firewalls to steal social security numbers and other personal information.
[18:59.130 --> 19:03.490]  But hackers around the nation disagree and often hold conventions to demonstrate what hacking is all about.
[19:03.830 --> 19:07.770]  Organizers say hackers on planet Earth hope a triennial convention.
[19:07.910 --> 19:08.310]  Triennial?
[19:08.530 --> 19:09.310]  Every three years.
[19:09.450 --> 19:10.210]  No, it's every two years.
[19:10.430 --> 19:10.830]  Okay.
[19:11.070 --> 19:11.650]  Well, there you go.
[19:11.770 --> 19:13.230]  First two were every three years.
[19:13.350 --> 19:15.210]  Yeah, the first two were, but that was back then.
[19:15.210 --> 19:25.370]  A triennial convention sponsored by the magazine 2600 The Hacker Quarterly is to be held July 21st to 23rd in New York City, and it's intended to show the general public that not all hackers are malicious cyber thieves.
[19:25.910 --> 19:37.710]  Anyone who can take something apart and make it work outside what it was intended to is a hacker, said Tony, whose last name I won't read, of Dayton, the convention's head organizer this year.
[19:40.610 --> 19:42.170]  I believe he's in this room, isn't he?
[19:43.030 --> 19:43.310]  No.
[19:43.570 --> 19:43.990]  What do you mean no?
[19:44.090 --> 19:44.330]  He's not.
[19:44.610 --> 19:45.050]  He's gone.
[19:45.070 --> 19:45.690]  Oh, there you are.
[19:45.870 --> 19:46.070]  Yeah.
[19:46.190 --> 19:46.590]  I didn't see you.
[19:46.590 --> 19:49.370]  No, it's sad misquoting.
[19:50.250 --> 19:50.830]  Well, no, no.
[19:50.930 --> 19:53.330]  If you're the head lead organizer, it takes a lot of pressure off of me.
[19:53.550 --> 19:54.770]  You know, and puts it all on me.
[19:54.810 --> 19:55.330]  I don't want it.
[19:55.390 --> 19:56.250]  I don't want it.
[19:56.290 --> 19:57.270]  It's right here in black and white.
[19:57.410 --> 19:59.110]  You're the convention's lead organizer this year.
[19:59.190 --> 20:01.630]  You won't be next time, but this year, fine with me.
[20:01.630 --> 20:04.950]  So everybody, you have questions for Tony, just feel free to ask him.
[20:05.750 --> 20:10.870]  And you go on to say, yeah, we get a lot of bad publicity because of some people, but not all of us are like that.
[20:11.210 --> 20:14.510]  You go on and say, our goal is to change people's perspective about hackers.
[20:14.670 --> 20:15.970]  If we can do that, we're happy.
[20:17.070 --> 20:18.330]  I agree with that.
[20:18.450 --> 20:20.010]  I mean, that's not a misquote, so.
[20:20.150 --> 20:24.070]  You said people from all walks of life have attended the convention, including many from the Dayton area.
[20:24.290 --> 20:24.850]  That's true.
[20:25.310 --> 20:27.910]  You continue by saying Dayton's pretty huge in the computer world.
[20:27.910 --> 20:33.710]  Because of Hamvention, there are a lot of people from the area that come to Hope and other things related to computers.
[20:33.850 --> 20:35.450]  That's where we know you from, Hamvention.
[20:36.050 --> 20:37.670]  Yeah, it's all coming together now.
[20:37.790 --> 20:39.170]  And weren't you in the Waffle House?
[20:39.590 --> 20:40.470]  Yeah, I was.
[20:40.610 --> 20:40.810]  You were there too.
[20:40.810 --> 20:41.470]  I was there.
[20:41.670 --> 20:42.690]  It was insane.
[20:42.930 --> 20:47.350]  And you were telling people how to get to Dayton and why they should come and enjoy themselves a while.
[20:47.470 --> 20:48.550]  It's a lovely place.
[20:49.750 --> 20:50.150]  Lovely.
[20:50.710 --> 20:50.990]  Okay.
[20:51.170 --> 20:57.810]  Well, anyway, continuing with the rest of the article, our panels include a talk about Alan Turing, and the organizer of that talk is here.
[20:57.910 --> 20:59.710]  Maybe he'll tell us something, give us a preview.
[21:00.310 --> 21:08.110]  Known as the father of the computer, as well as how to set up computer networks and discussions about network monitoring and the law.
[21:08.410 --> 21:12.390]  Also, panels on hacking, how to do it, how to prevent it from happening to you.
[21:13.770 --> 21:19.130]  And Tony, you predicted several police officers, as well as undercover FBI and CIA agents, will be on hand.
[21:19.570 --> 21:20.050]  Yeah.
[21:20.350 --> 21:20.770]  I mean...
[21:20.770 --> 21:21.170]  Good prediction.
[21:21.350 --> 21:21.510]  Yeah.
[21:22.150 --> 21:30.390]  Especially with Steve Rambam holding his seminar upstairs on Saturday for just those people.
[21:30.690 --> 21:32.090]  And that's also...
[21:32.090 --> 21:35.370]  You can get more information about that on Hope.net if you're interested in that part of things.
[21:36.250 --> 21:39.330]  Other uniformed folk not easily identified will also be on hand.
[21:40.630 --> 21:43.010]  And then you told them this story here.
[21:43.090 --> 21:47.370]  One year, two military guys stood at the entrance with guns and camouflaged everything, not saying a word.
[21:47.550 --> 21:48.730]  After about four hours, they left.
[21:48.850 --> 21:49.630]  It was a little weird.
[21:50.010 --> 21:50.170]  Yeah.
[21:50.910 --> 21:52.130]  No, this was...
[21:52.130 --> 21:52.590]  What was this?
[21:52.750 --> 21:54.330]  In 2000...
[21:54.330 --> 21:55.850]  It was just H2K2?
[21:56.030 --> 21:57.410]  Was it last year or the time before?
[21:57.550 --> 21:58.290]  I mean, last conference?
[21:58.430 --> 21:58.570]  Yeah.
[21:58.690 --> 22:01.710]  Actually, I think it might have been the conference, just the last one that we had.
[22:01.890 --> 22:02.090]  The fifth hub.
[22:02.270 --> 22:02.410]  Yeah.
[22:02.830 --> 22:04.610]  It was just two, and they stood there.
[22:04.710 --> 22:05.270]  It was awkward.
[22:05.490 --> 22:06.290]  And then they left.
[22:06.630 --> 22:07.110]  I mean...
[22:07.110 --> 22:07.830]  They just stood there doing...
[22:07.830 --> 22:09.570]  Am I the only one that saw that?
[22:09.630 --> 22:10.450]  No, I've seen the photo.
[22:10.690 --> 22:10.970]  Okay.
[22:11.170 --> 22:11.450]  All right.
[22:11.690 --> 22:12.210]  Well, okay.
[22:12.230 --> 22:13.570]  This was right before the RNC then.
[22:14.270 --> 22:18.710]  They were scoping out the area for the RNC, getting ready to figure out where they were going to attack people.
[22:18.850 --> 22:20.130]  Well, it was still awkward.
[22:20.430 --> 22:20.830]  I mean...
[22:20.830 --> 22:21.390]  I can imagine.
[22:21.510 --> 22:22.050]  It was scary.
[22:22.210 --> 22:23.270]  It was our conference with people from camouflage.
[22:23.350 --> 22:23.530]  Yeah.
[22:23.610 --> 22:24.910]  I mean, they're guarding our doors.
[22:25.130 --> 22:26.070]  Well, they weren't guarding our doors.
[22:26.450 --> 22:28.650]  They were guarding against us, I think.
[22:28.830 --> 22:29.010]  Yeah.
[22:29.390 --> 22:32.850]  But it's not likely they'll be here this time because there's no RNC after us this year.
[22:33.310 --> 22:35.690]  But there is a general state of alertness all around.
[22:36.310 --> 22:36.670]  Yellow.
[22:36.990 --> 22:37.650]  Yellow is the color.
[22:37.670 --> 22:38.150]  Is it yellow?
[22:38.410 --> 22:39.250]  We asked yesterday.
[22:39.290 --> 22:40.110]  I double-checked.
[22:40.110 --> 22:40.650]  It's yellow.
[22:40.970 --> 22:43.210]  Mike, there's no excuse for having to wait a full day to find out what that nation's going on.
[22:43.210 --> 22:44.850]  You said yellow yesterday, but now it's confirmed.
[22:44.850 --> 22:44.870]  You guessed.
[22:44.950 --> 22:45.990]  You said it was probably yellow.
[22:46.190 --> 22:49.930]  Is that the national color, or are we further along?
[22:50.530 --> 22:51.970]  I don't have that kind of information.
[22:52.050 --> 22:52.070]  Okay.
[22:52.070 --> 22:55.390]  In answer to that, I'll say what every single news organization says.
[22:55.550 --> 22:58.150]  Since 9-11, New York has been at orange.
[22:58.590 --> 23:06.970]  Even though there was no color code system then, and it wasn't for a good time afterwards, they've all rewritten history to say that since 9-11, New York has been at orange, one above yellow.
[23:07.130 --> 23:08.530]  So that's how revisionism starts.
[23:09.810 --> 23:10.210]  Okay.
[23:10.270 --> 23:10.410]  Yeah.
[23:10.510 --> 23:12.690]  So we'll have weird...
[23:12.690 --> 23:16.290]  Actually, there were cops across the street because of the India train bombings.
[23:16.570 --> 23:22.330]  I guess the NYPD figures that naturally that means they're going to bomb trains here in the U.S.
[23:22.330 --> 23:28.170]  Not buses, not stores, not other things, but trains because that's how terrorists work.
[23:28.270 --> 23:29.390]  They do one thing somewhere else.
[23:29.470 --> 23:31.550]  They're going to do the exact same thing in a certain city.
[23:31.550 --> 23:36.170]  So they've parked cars all up and down 7th Avenue near Penn Station with the lights flashing.
[23:36.350 --> 23:37.310]  Which is a deterrent.
[23:37.310 --> 23:39.830]  That's supposed to keep the terrorists from planting bombs in the trains.
[23:40.130 --> 23:40.790]  I don't know.
[23:40.970 --> 23:44.450]  Everyone knows that bombs don't work if there are flashing lights on the street above them.
[23:44.610 --> 23:46.270]  Well, you know, I don't know very much about bombs.
[23:46.330 --> 23:47.370]  That could very well be the case.
[23:47.570 --> 23:47.950]  No, no.
[23:48.170 --> 23:51.390]  Terrorists are epileptics, and this will set them off into their seizures.
[23:51.810 --> 23:59.550]  If you want to be set off by seizures, drive down 32nd Street tonight, and you'll see there's a big, huge billboard that's just flashing white or something.
[23:59.690 --> 24:02.090]  It's broken, and it's flashing, and it will give you a seizure.
[24:07.650 --> 24:09.470]  Yes, maybe somebody can fix that.
[24:10.470 --> 24:15.830]  So anyway, don't be concerned if you see cops with flashing lights on the west side of 7th Avenue.
[24:16.090 --> 24:18.570]  If you're on the east side, then that might have something to do with us.
[24:18.670 --> 24:19.810]  But right now, they're on the west side.
[24:21.370 --> 24:23.950]  Okay, continuing with this article, which I've got to say is a pretty big article.
[24:24.290 --> 24:26.590]  I don't know why you can tell us how you got the press to write all this.
[24:26.590 --> 24:38.550]  Roger Grimes, author of seven books and more than 150 articles for InfoWorld magazine on computer security, said attending conventions like these helps people learn about what they need to...
[24:38.550 --> 24:39.730]  Hold on, hold on.
[24:40.170 --> 24:41.190]  Too many clauses here.
[24:41.630 --> 24:49.010]  He said attending conventions like these helps people learn about what they needed to defend against in the future.
[24:49.410 --> 24:50.590]  Oh, come on.
[24:50.930 --> 24:51.830]  Come on.
[24:51.830 --> 24:53.450]  What kind of a sentence is this?
[24:54.250 --> 24:55.510]  I'm going to read it one more time straight.
[24:55.510 --> 25:04.310]  Roger Grimes, author of seven books and more than 150 articles for InfoWorld magazine on computer security, said attending conventions like these helps people learn about what they needed to defend against in the future.
[25:05.710 --> 25:06.850]  It's not just me, right?
[25:06.970 --> 25:08.330]  That's a rambling sentence.
[25:08.410 --> 25:09.790]  That was originally in German, I'm sure.
[25:09.790 --> 25:10.710]  It was all over the place.
[25:12.070 --> 25:12.510]  Okay.
[25:12.910 --> 25:14.310]  Did you actually meet the reporter?
[25:14.910 --> 25:16.890]  No, actually, she...
[25:16.890 --> 25:18.530]  Well, I emailed them asking.
[25:18.770 --> 25:22.090]  I noticed on the Hope Wiki there was nothing under media coverage.
[25:22.770 --> 25:30.770]  So I went ahead and sent an email to a bunch of newspapers in my area, which, you know, I live in Dayton, Ohio.
[25:31.950 --> 25:39.730]  And she got back to me the next day and said, yes, I'd be interested in doing a report on the hackers gathering all in one place.
[25:39.950 --> 25:47.070]  You know, and, you know, she first started out by asking me over the phone, you know, why would you guys do this?
[25:47.190 --> 25:49.290]  You know, why are you trying to get arrested?
[25:49.290 --> 25:55.610]  And I explained to her, you know, I told her, I was like, you know, we're not, you know, that's not what hacking is.
[25:55.730 --> 25:58.950]  You know, it's, it's the, what did she say?
[26:00.450 --> 26:00.770]  Mischievous.
[26:01.310 --> 26:02.130]  How did she put it?
[26:02.890 --> 26:03.630]  And she said...
[26:03.630 --> 26:04.330]  Malicious cyber thieves.
[26:04.950 --> 26:06.590]  Not all hackers are malicious cyber thieves.
[26:06.750 --> 26:07.550]  Yeah, so...
[26:07.550 --> 26:08.370]  Yeah, and that's in quotes.
[26:08.470 --> 26:09.490]  I don't know whose quote it is exactly.
[26:10.730 --> 26:12.290]  But yeah, that's great.
[26:12.990 --> 26:15.290]  I mean, that's how you get media attention, by contacting the media.
[26:15.590 --> 26:17.150]  And this certainly opened up some eyes.
[26:17.150 --> 26:19.030]  Now, Arsene, you've been, where are you?
[26:19.110 --> 26:19.430]  Where'd he go?
[26:19.650 --> 26:21.650]  I think he might be in the call room.
[26:21.850 --> 26:23.030]  Which, by the way, there's no phones.
[26:23.150 --> 26:24.110]  The one person I want to talk to is not here.
[26:24.230 --> 26:24.850]  That's incredible.
[26:25.010 --> 26:25.970]  No phones ringing, by the way.
[26:25.990 --> 26:26.770]  You're pointing to the wall.
[26:26.830 --> 26:27.270]  What does that mean?
[26:27.410 --> 26:29.010]  He's in the volunteer room.
[26:29.130 --> 26:29.310]  Oh.
[26:29.410 --> 26:32.610]  Well, there's no calls, as you just pointed out, so there's no reason for him to be there.
[26:32.610 --> 26:35.310]  If you wanted to talk to Arsene, you would make a donation to the station.
[26:35.450 --> 26:36.130]  Yeah, but I want to talk...
[26:36.130 --> 26:38.490]  I got to call, make a donation, and ask him a question?
[26:38.630 --> 26:48.090]  While we're trying to find Arsene, I'm going to appeal to our listeners to call in and hopefully talk to somebody other than Arsene so he can come into the studio and talk to us.
[26:48.490 --> 26:50.630]  And, in fact, you can hack your donation.
[26:50.630 --> 26:59.830]  If you can't pay the amount that you want all at one shot, payment arrangements can be made by dialing 212-209-2950.
[27:00.790 --> 27:10.890]  General membership for WBAI is $25, and there's a long list of premiums that you can ask about by dialing 212-209-2950.
[27:10.890 --> 27:13.430]  I can tell you about them before the people call and ask.
[27:13.710 --> 27:14.550]  Go right ahead.
[27:14.550 --> 27:19.950]  There's a WBAI mug, that's $60, and it's really fashionable, I believe.
[27:20.150 --> 27:20.610]  Yes, it is.
[27:20.810 --> 27:24.170]  There's also a WBAI tote bag or a baseball cap.
[27:24.310 --> 27:25.490]  Even more fashionable.
[27:25.710 --> 27:27.250]  If you like baseball caps.
[27:27.470 --> 27:30.670]  You're wearing a baseball cap right now, not a WBAI baseball cap.
[27:31.050 --> 27:32.430]  You're wearing an evil baseball cap.
[27:32.490 --> 27:32.970]  Whoa!
[27:33.570 --> 27:34.410]  It's from a bank.
[27:35.970 --> 27:36.850]  It's camouflage.
[27:37.470 --> 27:40.910]  It's from the bank whose name is like somebody running after you.
[27:40.910 --> 27:46.190]  People believe I work for this bank, and in fact, I'm a fire officer for this bank.
[27:46.910 --> 27:48.730]  It's social engineering hat.
[27:49.210 --> 27:51.510]  Well, people believe in all sorts of things these days.
[27:51.970 --> 27:52.730]  Arsene, you're here.
[27:52.990 --> 27:57.230]  I just wanted to ask you, because we're talking about the media, you're dealing with a lot of the press this year for Hope.
[27:57.230 --> 28:01.710]  Do you want to give us some ideas as to how many kinds of different people have been contacting you?
[28:01.830 --> 28:07.430]  Well, I was surprised that we're getting a lot of filmmakers and documentary makers coming in.
[28:09.210 --> 28:18.590]  And there's like at least four that are going to be filming some kind of hacker video or just stuff about computers.
[28:18.590 --> 28:22.590]  We actually had someone from Psychology Today also contact us.
[28:22.750 --> 28:23.650]  Psychology Today?
[28:23.670 --> 28:24.430]  I think so, yeah.
[28:24.650 --> 28:26.110]  Were they wanting to run experiments on us?
[28:26.110 --> 28:27.630]  I don't know, but they're just down the block.
[28:27.830 --> 28:29.210]  I think that's why they want to go.
[28:30.110 --> 28:31.630]  You know, we're right next door to Fuse.
[28:31.810 --> 28:34.270]  Fuse is that music channel, not MTV, the other one.
[28:34.990 --> 28:38.510]  Yeah, well, maybe we should go in there and like throw press releases at them.
[28:38.610 --> 28:42.850]  We could do that, or we could jump around outside their studio window like idiots, if they have one.
[28:43.650 --> 28:48.530]  Or they could just wander over and look at all the people, the trendy-looking people.
[28:48.850 --> 28:49.790]  I'm sure they'll do that.
[28:50.730 --> 28:52.250]  Okay, yeah, we have no calls on the line.
[28:52.250 --> 28:53.750]  Look at that, and that's embarrassing because...
[28:54.110 --> 28:56.990]  I was going to say, I'm just sitting there staring at the wall.
[28:57.150 --> 28:58.010]  We need someone to call.
[28:58.310 --> 28:58.570]  Uh-huh.
[28:58.610 --> 29:00.810]  You heard me try to ask you a question, and you're all the way down the hall.
[29:00.890 --> 29:01.870]  Well, yeah, I could.
[29:01.930 --> 29:04.310]  It was that quiet that I could hear you down the hall.
[29:04.830 --> 29:05.990]  Okay, well, here's the thing.
[29:06.130 --> 29:15.350]  Okay, this is what's known as the emergency fundraiser, where we find ourselves short, and we need to make it up by, I think, the fiscal year, which begins, what, September 1st or something like that?
[29:15.510 --> 29:16.010]  Well, that's soon.
[29:16.090 --> 29:16.690]  Is that how it works?
[29:24.090 --> 29:30.690]  Some stars-studded extravaganza that would have raised a ton of money, but the good folks at BAI elected to keep us here.
[29:30.950 --> 29:42.090]  But you kind of have to make us look honorable here by giving a call to the radio station and just voicing your support for programs like this so that we can keep this going.
[29:42.090 --> 29:53.370]  Imagine, if the station was not here, how we would do things like Hope Conferences or any other special events that we've had in the past from all over the world.
[29:53.670 --> 29:55.730]  212-209-2950.
[29:55.890 --> 30:08.370]  We have a wide variety of premiums, as the guys have been saying, things from coffee mugs to tote bags to just general station membership, different pledge levels.
[30:09.010 --> 30:12.030]  If you pledge $60, you can get any one of those items.
[30:12.190 --> 30:16.570]  If you pledge $125, you get the hat, mug, and tote bag.
[30:16.710 --> 30:19.330]  I know people are saying, I can get a hat, mug, and tote bag for much less than that.
[30:19.390 --> 30:20.070]  That's not the point.
[30:20.150 --> 30:21.170]  That's not why you should be calling.
[30:21.310 --> 30:23.390]  You should be calling because tune around.
[30:23.590 --> 30:23.910]  Tune around.
[30:24.070 --> 30:30.130]  Anybody in this room, I'll bet, will have a hard time finding a radio station like this in whatever community they come from.
[30:30.710 --> 30:33.370]  And there's a reason for that because this kind of thing is not easy.
[30:33.550 --> 30:35.630]  This kind of thing does not grow on trees.
[30:36.250 --> 30:37.450]  We don't have sponsors.
[30:37.450 --> 30:38.470]  We don't have commercials.
[30:38.470 --> 30:39.190]  We have you.
[30:39.430 --> 30:41.930]  And if you're not there, then we have nothing.
[30:42.330 --> 30:44.150]  So please, make these phones light up.
[30:44.250 --> 30:45.810]  212-209-2950.
[30:45.950 --> 30:46.810]  It doesn't matter where you are.
[30:47.050 --> 30:48.270]  Call from any place.
[30:48.810 --> 30:51.870]  There are nice people down there in the tally room waiting to take your phone call.
[30:52.350 --> 30:56.430]  And, you know, we've given away all sorts of things over the years on this program.
[30:56.630 --> 30:58.010]  We've given away hope tickets.
[30:58.770 --> 31:01.390]  And the last fundraiser, we were giving away hope tickets.
[31:01.430 --> 31:07.490]  And you were actually able to get those for less than the face value of what we were selling them for on the street or wherever it is we sell them.
[31:07.570 --> 31:12.670]  I think we had a pair of them for $125 or something like that, which is...
[31:12.670 --> 31:13.890]  It's a good deal, but...
[31:13.890 --> 31:14.970]  It's a damn good deal.
[31:15.110 --> 31:18.670]  But the best deal of all is that the radio station continues.
[31:18.950 --> 31:20.330]  That's the reason why people have to call.
[31:20.610 --> 31:25.170]  It's not to get the most value for whatever premium you get back.
[31:25.170 --> 31:28.170]  It's so that this radio station is here for you in the future.
[31:28.370 --> 31:30.850]  And that's... there's nothing more important than that.
[31:31.270 --> 31:33.150]  212-209-2950.
[31:33.790 --> 31:36.330]  I'm hoping that little box is broken because look at that.
[31:36.390 --> 31:36.790]  It's empty.
[31:36.890 --> 31:37.470]  There's nobody.
[31:37.710 --> 31:38.970]  Not a single person out there.
[31:39.110 --> 31:42.010]  I hope it's not just that our listeners are pathetic and not calling.
[31:42.090 --> 31:43.150]  Oh, don't call the listeners pathetic.
[31:43.270 --> 31:45.590]  I hope they're not, but...
[31:45.590 --> 31:50.270]  It could be that there's a brownout that just affects that particular little box that shows how many calls are coming in.
[31:50.310 --> 31:53.970]  Or maybe there's a brownout in your area and you're using that as an excuse not to call us.
[31:54.030 --> 31:56.410]  We know that doesn't affect the phone, so you can call us.
[31:56.570 --> 31:59.090]  The problem is a lot of people aren't using landlines anymore, right?
[31:59.750 --> 32:00.990]  So they're not using landlines.
[32:01.070 --> 32:01.630]  What does that have to do with anything?
[32:01.930 --> 32:06.290]  Well, they're using voice over IP or something that would require electrical power.
[32:06.550 --> 32:09.890]  I don't believe that that many of our listeners are unable to make a phone call.
[32:09.890 --> 32:11.150]  I'm done making excuses for you guys.
[32:11.290 --> 32:11.790]  Please call.
[32:12.550 --> 32:13.090]  Look at that.
[32:13.150 --> 32:13.370]  It's amazing.
[32:13.390 --> 32:17.030]  Maybe they don't know that the number is 212-209-2950.
[32:17.210 --> 32:19.130]  I've never seen such organized resistance before.
[32:19.430 --> 32:23.210]  It's like everybody is holding hands and chanting and saying, I'm not going to do it.
[32:23.210 --> 32:25.310]  But one person has the power.
[32:25.470 --> 32:26.130]  One person.
[32:26.330 --> 32:27.910]  Despite that article, Hope is...
[32:27.910 --> 32:28.190]  There we go.
[32:28.430 --> 32:30.150]  What's it doing down there on line 12?
[32:30.390 --> 32:31.350]  Had line 12 ring.
[32:31.710 --> 32:32.170]  That's weird.
[32:32.170 --> 32:33.630]  Hope is a biennial thing.
[32:33.790 --> 32:36.910]  But our show, Off the Hook, is a weekly.
[32:37.130 --> 32:42.390]  And without WBAI, all you'll have is the Hope Conference and maybe not even that.
[32:42.510 --> 32:44.410]  How will we tell people about the Hope Conference?
[32:44.570 --> 32:52.130]  Not only how will we tell, but how could you stand getting your dose of hacker-related information only once every two years?
[32:52.570 --> 32:58.370]  Heaven knows what could be done to you, at you, or against you in two years.
[32:58.650 --> 33:03.070]  Whereas, at least with us, every week, we'll tell you what's going on in this world.
[33:03.250 --> 33:08.150]  Yeah, and our voices don't tend to get compromised by the highest bidder.
[33:08.270 --> 33:11.330]  We're pretty much spouting forth what we spout forth week after week.
[33:11.410 --> 33:12.490]  And sometimes it gets tiresome.
[33:12.590 --> 33:14.050]  Sometimes it's revealing.
[33:14.070 --> 33:15.910]  But it's up to you if you like it or not.
[33:16.090 --> 33:17.970]  But do you want it to continue being here?
[33:17.970 --> 33:19.850]  2-1-2-2-0-9-2-9-5-0.
[33:20.130 --> 33:20.990]  Show your support.
[33:21.130 --> 33:21.890]  Invest in the station.
[33:22.090 --> 33:23.450]  I'm looking for a bidder, actually.
[33:23.590 --> 33:33.910]  But seriously, if you want to bid for freedom of speech, call in 2-0-9-2-9-5-0 and pledge to WBAI and keep this sort of thing going.
[33:34.010 --> 33:34.890]  What you said was wrong.
[33:35.130 --> 33:35.430]  What?
[33:35.610 --> 33:41.470]  Because, well, there is no occasion anywhere, anytime, where you would just call 2-0-9-2-9-5-0.
[33:41.470 --> 33:42.730]  You always have to dial the area code now.
[33:43.230 --> 33:44.350]  That's something we talk about.
[33:44.370 --> 33:46.110]  We're not afraid to confront that issue.
[33:46.370 --> 33:46.710]  2-1-2.
[33:46.910 --> 33:47.050]  Yeah.
[33:47.390 --> 33:49.650]  Everybody has a stupid thing if you're in 2-1-2.
[33:49.750 --> 33:50.770]  Why do you have to dial 2-1-2?
[33:50.830 --> 33:51.210]  But you do.
[33:51.570 --> 33:52.350]  I'm old school.
[33:52.490 --> 33:53.210]  I'm old fashioned.
[33:53.450 --> 34:01.230]  I believe in the old values, the truth, justice, the First Amendment, and the ability to dial only seven damn digits on your telephone.
[34:01.430 --> 34:01.650]  Yeah.
[34:01.810 --> 34:02.530]  Or even less.
[34:02.630 --> 34:06.690]  You know, there are some areas where you only have to dial the last four if you were in the same exchange.
[34:06.910 --> 34:08.490]  Those were the days before my time.
[34:08.590 --> 34:08.950]  But wow.
[34:09.070 --> 34:09.450]  Mine too.
[34:09.450 --> 34:10.270]  Doesn't that make sense, though?
[34:10.270 --> 34:18.710]  See, no other radio station in the entire country would claim that dialing only seven digits is an issue on par with other issues.
[34:18.750 --> 34:23.330]  So if you want that sort of thing to continue, you really have to pledge to this very radio station.
[34:23.490 --> 34:24.330]  We're the only radio station.
[34:24.330 --> 34:28.110]  We're the only radio show that realizes it's on par with issues like that.
[34:28.130 --> 34:28.230]  That's the thing.
[34:28.330 --> 34:28.950]  We're paying attention.
[34:29.090 --> 34:31.970]  We notice little things like digits in the wrong place and things like that.
[34:32.150 --> 34:33.590]  Now, here's something else that I noticed.
[34:33.670 --> 34:34.910]  I learned this the last couple of weeks.
[34:35.030 --> 34:37.230]  I know that with cell phones, you have to dial ten digits.
[34:37.230 --> 34:38.070]  It used to be you didn't.
[34:38.130 --> 34:38.810]  It used to be 917.
[34:39.030 --> 34:43.310]  You didn't have to dial another 917 area code if you were calling cell phone to cell phone.
[34:44.710 --> 34:51.030]  But if you have a cell phone in the New York area, you're going to have that problem.
[34:51.330 --> 34:54.830]  But it turns out, Red Hacked, as you're coming up to the microphone, why don't you tell us?
[34:54.830 --> 34:56.270]  I can still dial seven digits.
[34:56.410 --> 34:56.890]  Why is that?
[34:56.930 --> 34:59.250]  For my area code, because there's not that many people in it, I guess.
[34:59.270 --> 34:59.990]  What's your area code?
[35:00.190 --> 35:00.510]  914.
[35:00.810 --> 35:01.130]  914.
[35:01.250 --> 35:02.730]  So the 914 area code...
[35:04.410 --> 35:05.850]  As you whack your head on a TV set.
[35:05.850 --> 35:09.450]  But 914 area code, apparently, you can just...
[35:09.450 --> 35:13.850]  Like the 516 landline, you can dial seven digits and get away with it.
[35:13.910 --> 35:15.970]  516-632-914.
[35:16.650 --> 35:16.830]  I don't know.
[35:16.870 --> 35:19.590]  Does anyone have a 516 cell phone in this room?
[35:19.770 --> 35:21.450]  516 or 632 or anything like that?
[35:21.550 --> 35:21.730]  Nobody?
[35:21.930 --> 35:24.250]  All these people are from foreign cities and countries.
[35:24.730 --> 35:25.650]  You don't mean 631?
[35:25.830 --> 35:26.590]  I'm sorry, 631.
[35:26.790 --> 35:27.150]  631.
[35:27.350 --> 35:28.810]  You have a 631 cell phone.
[35:29.190 --> 35:33.110]  Can you dial other cell phones in 631 without dialing the 631?
[35:34.090 --> 35:34.470]  Yes.
[35:34.670 --> 35:34.990]  You can.
[35:34.990 --> 35:37.550]  Okay, so now we've learned something else.
[35:37.690 --> 35:42.230]  But you do have to dial 10 digits if you want to call 212-209-2950.
[35:42.450 --> 35:46.430]  Actually, Mike, you're wrong too because I don't know very many places we wouldn't have to dial one first.
[35:46.550 --> 35:47.090]  On a cell phone.
[35:47.130 --> 35:47.810]  On a cell phone, you know.
[35:47.970 --> 35:48.730]  Okay, but you can.
[35:49.490 --> 35:50.050]  You can.
[35:50.890 --> 35:51.790]  You're not penalized if you do.
[35:51.870 --> 35:52.330]  But yeah, you're right.
[35:52.490 --> 35:53.010]  Why is that?
[35:53.010 --> 35:54.270]  On a cell phone, you don't have to dial the one.
[35:54.490 --> 35:55.510]  Because it's stupid, the one.
[35:55.730 --> 35:56.630]  I agree, it's stupid.
[35:56.650 --> 35:58.850]  But why do they continue to make you dial the one everywhere else?
[35:59.590 --> 36:03.110]  This is the sort of hard-hitting issue that we'll continue to address.
[36:03.130 --> 36:04.230]  I'd like to know the answer to this.
[36:04.330 --> 36:05.270]  It doesn't make any sense.
[36:05.810 --> 36:06.090]  All right.
[36:06.170 --> 36:07.650]  Well, that seems to have gotten people calling at least.
[36:07.750 --> 36:09.150]  212-209-2950.
[36:09.390 --> 36:12.910]  You see, it's the issues that you can identify with that we pay attention to.
[36:12.910 --> 36:18.970]  And in that same vein, your issues, things that you want to say to us, things that you want to bring forth, we listen to.
[36:19.230 --> 36:20.250]  And you have a voice.
[36:20.430 --> 36:23.850]  It may seem trivial to other people or a big waste of time, but these things do matter.
[36:24.190 --> 36:30.690]  And we've talked about so many issues over the years in these four walls, within these four walls, or however many walls.
[36:30.690 --> 36:31.750]  There's more than four, yeah.
[36:31.850 --> 36:32.070]  All right.
[36:32.150 --> 36:32.830]  Never mind that.
[36:32.930 --> 36:35.670]  But the point is, we're here, and we want to continue to be here.
[36:36.090 --> 36:38.470]  And this station is a terrific forum for that.
[36:38.630 --> 36:39.810]  It's been around since 1960.
[36:40.730 --> 36:41.870]  It's famous worldwide.
[36:41.870 --> 36:45.910]  And like for some of the people from different parts of the world, have you guys heard of BAI?
[36:46.510 --> 36:48.610]  Rob, do you have something to say about BAI?
[36:48.990 --> 36:50.110]  Remember, keep it clean, Rob.
[36:50.770 --> 37:00.830]  I'm not so much having to say something about WBAI, but I was privy to seeing some of the lockpicking workshop material this morning, because Barry was working on it.
[37:01.050 --> 37:02.410]  You're veering off into a totally different direction.
[37:02.530 --> 37:02.810]  Okay, fine.
[37:02.970 --> 37:03.510]  We're talking about it.
[37:03.510 --> 37:04.190]  A totally different direction.
[37:04.250 --> 37:04.430]  That's fine.
[37:04.430 --> 37:05.110]  We're coming to Hope.
[37:06.050 --> 37:08.970]  You're going to want to see the lockpicking workshop, because it's going to be amazing.
[37:09.110 --> 37:09.630]  It's going to be amazing.
[37:10.110 --> 37:10.430]  Cool.
[37:10.630 --> 37:11.030]  All right.
[37:11.110 --> 37:11.610]  I'm looking forward to that.
[37:11.610 --> 37:12.390]  And that's what, Friday?
[37:13.070 --> 37:14.330]  I think it's the first day, yeah, Friday.
[37:14.490 --> 37:14.650]  Okay.
[37:14.950 --> 37:17.990]  And the village will be there, the lockpicking village will be there the entire weekend.
[37:18.110 --> 37:25.730]  Yes, the entire weekend people will be there to show you how to pick locks, how to get into the hobby of trying to see if you can open it.
[37:25.750 --> 37:26.750]  But Rob, I'm confused.
[37:26.910 --> 37:27.990]  Isn't lockpicking illegal?
[37:28.410 --> 37:30.470]  Don't any criminals want to know this kind of thing?
[37:30.890 --> 37:32.270]  No, lockpicking is important.
[37:32.430 --> 37:35.710]  It's important because you get to learn how the system works.
[37:35.710 --> 37:46.010]  You get to learn how this simple piece of metal keeps you out and how you're going to pick your way into that lock and see if you can open it.
[37:46.090 --> 37:47.670]  It's the same thing as computer security.
[37:47.670 --> 37:48.970]  It's just with pieces of metal.
[37:49.170 --> 37:54.270]  And how many times have lockpickers gone to the companies who make the locks and said, here's a flaw in your design.
[37:54.450 --> 37:55.250]  Please improve it.
[37:55.330 --> 37:56.150]  And been locked up?
[37:57.390 --> 37:57.790]  No.
[37:57.910 --> 38:00.230]  Yeah, but you know how long that lasts with a lockpicker.
[38:00.270 --> 38:01.450]  Now, that's an interesting question.
[38:01.590 --> 38:03.330]  Is it legal to pick one's own lock?
[38:03.330 --> 38:06.290]  If you possess a lock, is it legal to pick it?
[38:06.430 --> 38:06.630]  Yes.
[38:06.630 --> 38:09.430]  So, D-E-C-S-S doesn't apply to locks.
[38:09.970 --> 38:11.630]  Well, you're not leasing a lock.
[38:11.810 --> 38:12.210]  It depends.
[38:12.350 --> 38:16.410]  There are states where possession of lockpicking materials is actually in itself illegal.
[38:16.630 --> 38:17.830]  Well, it's like New York State.
[38:17.930 --> 38:19.070]  New York State, not one of them.
[38:19.090 --> 38:21.770]  So, you can come to Hope and pick locks with impunity.
[38:21.950 --> 38:22.770]  Well, here's the thing.
[38:22.870 --> 38:26.130]  In New York State, you could be arrested for carrying burglar tools.
[38:26.410 --> 38:31.070]  But generally, they only do that if they want to lock you up for some reason, like breaking into a building.
[38:36.630 --> 38:37.450]  Things like that are fine.
[38:37.890 --> 38:38.290]  Interesting.
[38:38.450 --> 38:40.530]  All these little crazy rules that...
[38:40.530 --> 38:44.070]  Where would you learn this except WBAI off the hook?
[38:44.290 --> 38:44.670]  Yes.
[38:44.790 --> 38:50.390]  And keep this sort of information alive by dialing 212-209-2950.
[38:50.610 --> 38:52.250]  Now, I'd like to get back to the radio stations for a second.
[38:52.350 --> 38:55.110]  Is anybody else, guys from Germany or anything, you've heard of BAI?
[38:55.110 --> 38:56.710]  Or any...
[38:56.710 --> 38:57.010]  No?
[38:57.430 --> 38:58.110]  From off the hook?
[38:58.250 --> 38:58.970]  Off the hook, yes.
[38:59.370 --> 39:02.950]  I guess off the hook has sort of brought BAI to a lot of people.
[39:02.950 --> 39:06.790]  I'm curious to know, because there's all these people from all over the place.
[39:06.950 --> 39:11.530]  Do any of these people have in their home community a station that's at all like WBAI?
[39:11.550 --> 39:13.450]  Tell us about all the stations like BAI around the world.
[39:13.630 --> 39:14.330]  Oh, you're nodding.
[39:14.530 --> 39:15.110]  There is a station?
[39:15.250 --> 39:15.770]  Come, tell us.
[39:15.870 --> 39:18.370]  Yeah, we have a station that's like it.
[39:19.530 --> 39:25.310]  We also do a hacker radio show where it's Chaos Radio Darmstadt.
[39:25.550 --> 39:26.610]  We were on that, yeah.
[39:27.370 --> 39:31.890]  And we are doing a show at the Mitterrandman Chaos Days.
[39:32.270 --> 39:38.910]  I think McFly has told in a show some month ago about it.
[39:40.250 --> 39:42.730]  Now, is that a radio station that broadcasts over the air?
[39:42.970 --> 39:43.730]  Yeah, it does.
[39:43.950 --> 39:45.570]  How powerful is it and where does it get to?
[39:45.610 --> 39:46.470]  Not very powerful.
[39:47.650 --> 39:49.490]  At my home, I don't even get it.
[39:49.930 --> 39:53.230]  But if there's an internet stream, you can listen to it.
[39:54.890 --> 40:00.790]  But I think it reaches some 10 to 15 miles.
[40:00.930 --> 40:01.230]  That's good.
[40:01.390 --> 40:01.850]  That's pretty good.
[40:02.150 --> 40:14.530]  Now, do you have anything, say, in a city like Hamburg or Berlin or Munich or something like that, a big, powerful radio station that can reach the entire city that's not a commercial station that has alternative programming?
[40:15.190 --> 40:16.430]  There used to be a station like that.
[40:16.530 --> 40:19.930]  I remember before the wall fell, there was a station in Berlin that was really cool.
[40:19.970 --> 40:20.990]  And I think they went away.
[40:22.050 --> 40:23.510]  It really depends a lot.
[40:23.510 --> 40:28.990]  Because in Germany, you have laws for radios for every state.
[40:29.790 --> 40:34.830]  And so, well, there are situations when you have something like this.
[40:35.290 --> 40:46.030]  But in other states, well, to have alternative content, maybe you would have to be on commercial radio.
[40:46.030 --> 40:53.830]  But they are ordered by law to give you time slots for alternative content, stuff like that.
[40:54.130 --> 40:59.330]  And the most horrible situation at the moment, I guess, is in Berlin, because there's nothing like that.
[40:59.830 --> 41:05.150]  People are working hard on that to establish an alternative radio station, but it's really not there.
[41:05.570 --> 41:05.830]  Interesting.
[41:05.830 --> 41:11.950]  I think in nearly every state except Berlin and Bavaria, we have free and uncommercial radio stations.
[41:12.390 --> 41:12.710]  You do.
[41:12.870 --> 41:15.830]  Now, how does one get a non-commercial radio station?
[41:16.050 --> 41:21.090]  Yeah, well, in Germany, you have to pay for listening to radio, like something like tax.
[41:21.090 --> 41:23.310]  If you just own a radio, you have to pay something.
[41:23.750 --> 41:26.710]  And a small part of this is going to the uncommercial radio stations.
[41:26.930 --> 41:29.650]  So that's sort of like in England with the license fee you have to...
[41:29.650 --> 41:29.830]  Yes.
[41:29.830 --> 41:30.490]  I see.
[41:30.570 --> 41:33.630]  Do you have people in vans going around looking for the signals like they do there?
[41:33.630 --> 41:39.090]  We have people going around looking for people who run radio, television, and not paying for it.
[41:39.450 --> 41:39.850]  Interesting.
[41:40.150 --> 41:46.330]  We don't have that here, at least, but we also don't have a whole lot of choice as far as alternatives.
[41:46.670 --> 41:47.970]  And BAI is one of the exceptions.
[41:49.050 --> 41:54.910]  Well, the difference is that here the contribution is voluntary, which is why we have to spend this time asking for it.
[41:55.030 --> 41:57.610]  Yeah, and we have two calls on the line, 212-209-2950.
[41:57.610 --> 42:02.170]  Well, please show your support, keep discussions like this going, and keep radio stations like this on the air.
[42:02.450 --> 42:08.150]  I think I can say that categorically the situation in the UK is really a lot worse than almost any other country.
[42:08.590 --> 42:09.610]  Even worse than here?
[42:09.830 --> 42:10.910]  Much, much worse than here.
[42:10.990 --> 42:11.230]  Really?
[42:11.430 --> 42:11.630]  Okay.
[42:11.830 --> 42:14.830]  We have about 60 community radio stations now, 60 licenses.
[42:15.430 --> 42:19.450]  But unlike WBAI, they're usually just mirror images of the commercial stations.
[42:19.710 --> 42:26.470]  And people generally volunteer there only with the sort of aim of ending up working commercial radio.
[42:26.470 --> 42:31.230]  And one of the biggest barriers that we have is we don't really have very strong fair use laws in England.
[42:31.230 --> 42:40.550]  I know it's quite a big issue in many countries, but in England, if you have a non-commercial radio station, you still pay the same sort of royalty fees for playing music, which is, you know, a massive barrier for us.
[42:40.670 --> 42:42.430]  So it's a pretty grim situation there.
[42:42.610 --> 42:46.590]  But as far as actually getting a station, what keeps you from doing that?
[42:46.590 --> 42:56.010]  I thought it'd be really nice to start my own station, so I found out that then just to fill in the application form and send off the application form is like $10,000 or something.
[42:56.010 --> 42:56.510]  Wow.
[42:56.690 --> 42:57.990]  And you don't necessarily get approved.
[42:58.290 --> 42:59.990]  You almost certainly don't get approved.
[43:00.050 --> 43:00.650]  And you'll get your money back.
[43:01.910 --> 43:02.270]  Wow.
[43:03.030 --> 43:05.630]  In Germany, it's a lot of paperwork, but not much money.
[43:06.430 --> 43:09.190]  Yeah, we did that actually for one of the camps.
[43:09.410 --> 43:10.750]  We had a temporary station there.
[43:11.510 --> 43:12.730]  That was the one we were on, right?
[43:12.970 --> 43:13.230]  Right.
[43:13.370 --> 43:15.990]  And it was easy, really easy to get it.
[43:16.210 --> 43:18.610]  Like just one phone call, we want a frequency.
[43:18.910 --> 43:22.270]  And then they said, yeah, okay, we have to coordinate that with Poland.
[43:23.770 --> 43:25.130]  Always had to coordinate it with Poland.
[43:25.130 --> 43:32.090]  Yeah, so you don't get in the way and stuff because that camp was in the Berlin area.
[43:33.450 --> 43:34.950]  But it was really easy.
[43:35.910 --> 43:42.250]  But just for like one week, getting a permanent frequency is a lot of work.
[43:42.450 --> 43:48.990]  Yeah, well, we had, I guess, similar ease in getting a permit for the ham radio station.
[43:49.070 --> 43:50.410]  Sound like that went pretty easily.
[43:50.790 --> 43:52.630]  The person who did it just walked in the door.
[43:52.830 --> 43:53.190]  Oh, really?
[43:53.450 --> 43:54.890]  You're responsible, huh?
[43:55.130 --> 43:56.390]  The special event station.
[43:56.970 --> 43:59.030]  Well, I only had to call them three times.
[43:59.370 --> 43:59.570]  Really?
[43:59.870 --> 44:02.930]  Three times and you were able to get at that, this is Lynn, by the way.
[44:03.110 --> 44:05.310]  Yeah, I should have just been able to do it online.
[44:05.310 --> 44:09.650]  And it kept getting lost somehow.
[44:09.930 --> 44:21.970]  But finally, when I called back the people at W5YI, which is a kind of a facilitator for the FCC, it went through the third time with no problem.
[44:22.190 --> 44:25.370]  I was a little vague about what it was for.
[44:25.870 --> 44:30.790]  But now, if we wanted to get a regular broadcasting station, it wouldn't be that easy like the Germans were able to do.
[44:31.350 --> 44:31.670]  No.
[44:31.790 --> 44:33.210]  You wouldn't be able to get one in New York City.
[44:33.430 --> 44:35.290]  I mean, there's no allocations left.
[44:35.610 --> 44:40.990]  I don't think you could get a frequency on the FM dial in most places anywhere in the country.
[44:40.990 --> 44:50.950]  I mean, you might be able to, in the middle of nowhere, in the Midwest, but even the low-power FM stations are all taken up now.
[44:51.550 --> 44:52.150]  Interesting, Mitch.
[44:52.670 --> 44:55.970]  Yeah, I'm actually from some podunk town in the Midwest.
[44:56.710 --> 44:58.110]  No, no need to be sorry.
[44:58.250 --> 44:58.810]  I totally agree.
[45:00.050 --> 45:05.650]  WEFT is a community station in Urbana, Champaign, where there's a University of Illinois.
[45:05.930 --> 45:07.110]  I helped start the station there.
[45:07.110 --> 45:19.830]  And for a mere $70,000, we were able to, and seven years of our lives, start a radio station there that barely gets by and is still in existence today.
[45:20.630 --> 45:24.290]  Now, BNI is very special because it's got a very special place on the dial.
[45:25.190 --> 45:30.910]  There's no way you'd be able to get something that high on the dial ever again, really, is there?
[45:30.970 --> 45:35.590]  No, because the way we do things in the States, we have what's known as the non-commercial ghetto.
[45:35.590 --> 45:39.990]  Everything below 92 on the FM dial, by law, has to be non-commercial.
[45:40.250 --> 45:47.530]  So what that means is that's where your NPR stations, your college stations, and unfortunately, at least I think so, your religious stations wind up.
[45:48.230 --> 45:52.330]  And I'd say it's a waste of non-commercial frequency to basically sell the product.
[45:54.130 --> 46:00.810]  So you tend to have stations down there, and a lot of people are afraid to go below 92 because, well, what they hear might confuse them.
[46:01.010 --> 46:04.810]  We have a station at 99.5, right smack in the middle of the commercial band.
[46:04.810 --> 46:13.770]  This station's license is worth a fortune, and if evil people were to one day sell it, they'd do quite well, and you'd never be able to get a frequency like that again.
[46:14.430 --> 46:17.610]  What's good about having it there is a lot of people come upon us by accident.
[46:17.610 --> 46:27.730]  They're on their way from Hot 97 to Z100 or whatever, and they don't turn fast enough, and their finger slips, and they get us, and then they can't turn away because it's just so unbelievable what they hear.
[46:28.290 --> 46:37.290]  Right now, though, what you're hearing is, yes, you're hearing a radio station asking you for money to pay for the radio station to keep it going because we don't have commercials, haven't had a single one this hour.
[46:37.490 --> 46:41.390]  I don't think we're going to have one next hour or the one after that, and haven't had any since 1960.
[46:42.230 --> 46:54.770]  So if you want to keep that unbelievable streak going, all you have to do is call 212-209-2950, join the people on the line now, join the BAI family, become a member who can vote for changes in the station and various other things.
[46:55.270 --> 46:56.870]  All the details will be sent to you.
[46:57.190 --> 47:00.990]  We take Visa, MasterCard, American Express, all sorts of fun things like that, or you can pay by check.
[47:01.150 --> 47:03.250]  212-209-2950.
[47:03.530 --> 47:08.990]  You're listening to Off the Hook, our special pre-HOPE convention show where we have all these people in the studio.
[47:09.130 --> 47:14.330]  And I believe, McFly, you've got some interesting reports about something at the HOPE conference, Capture the Flag.
[47:14.490 --> 47:15.390]  What's going on with that?
[47:15.590 --> 47:17.330]  Yeah, we're doing Capture the Flag.
[47:17.930 --> 47:20.970]  I was doing the Capture the Flag on the CCC 22C3.
[47:22.110 --> 47:24.330]  That's the Congress that took place last December.
[47:24.330 --> 47:36.950]  Yeah, this is the German CCC, the big German CCC Congress, Congress, the annual one, in Berlin, and we're going to play it the same way like we played it there, which means that every team will get a VMware image.
[47:37.150 --> 47:38.430]  We were looking for teams.
[47:39.390 --> 47:40.830]  What is Capture the Flag?
[47:41.030 --> 47:43.330]  Is it like people running around trying to tackle each other?
[47:43.370 --> 47:45.170]  Because that's the only one I've ever played.
[47:45.270 --> 47:47.590]  No, this is a hacking contest.
[47:47.910 --> 47:50.390]  You'll get a VMware image.
[47:50.550 --> 47:52.390]  Every team will get the same VMware image.
[47:52.530 --> 47:54.130]  It has about one hour of preparation.
[47:54.970 --> 48:00.230]  After that, well, we'll start the game, and you'll be able to attack the other images.
[48:00.650 --> 48:17.170]  You'll find some pieces of information, which would be like 20 chars, which can be a database field, which can be a name of a file, which can be the content of a file, which can be anything on the disk where you can store information in.
[48:17.170 --> 48:26.730]  And while we're looking to up to maybe 10 or 12 teams, the team size should be from 5 to 8 people.
[48:28.090 --> 48:32.790]  You should have a not-so-slow notebook for running a VMware image.
[48:32.930 --> 48:39.970]  So prepare a bit and install VMware before you start participating in the contest.
[48:39.970 --> 48:47.230]  And, well, you'll train to attack, and you'll train to defend your own service then.
[48:47.730 --> 48:51.230]  So people coming into the conference interested in this, what do they do?
[48:51.410 --> 48:52.050]  They look for you?
[48:52.270 --> 48:53.410]  They look for the wiki.
[48:53.670 --> 48:59.070]  At best, now, like tomorrow morning or today afternoon, look for the wiki and sign up there.
[48:59.810 --> 49:01.150]  And sign up for the conference.
[49:01.510 --> 49:03.310]  The CTF will be on Saturday, I think.
[49:04.330 --> 49:06.710]  And, yeah, then get in the hack center.
[49:07.390 --> 49:11.210]  We'll have some small announcements there, and we'll see.
[49:11.510 --> 49:11.770]  Okay.
[49:11.910 --> 49:13.450]  So on the wiki, it's under what?
[49:13.610 --> 49:14.970]  CTF or capture the flag?
[49:15.350 --> 49:17.970]  I'm not sure under what it's at the wiki at the moment.
[49:18.190 --> 49:19.650]  But it's on the wiki.
[49:20.130 --> 49:22.270]  Everything they need to know for now is on the wiki.
[49:22.890 --> 49:23.590]  Not completely.
[49:23.870 --> 49:29.330]  It will be on the wiki, like, tomorrow morning, and there will be a blog post we are just working on.
[49:29.470 --> 49:29.710]  Okay.
[49:29.750 --> 49:30.750]  How people get to this wiki?
[49:32.230 --> 49:33.390]  Wiki.hopenumber6.net.
[49:33.750 --> 49:34.110]  Okay.
[49:34.610 --> 49:35.190]  Good enough.
[49:35.370 --> 49:37.030]  Does wiki.hope.net work as well?
[49:37.750 --> 49:37.910]  No.
[49:37.910 --> 49:38.130]  No?
[49:38.270 --> 49:38.410]  Okay.
[49:38.570 --> 49:40.110]  Because hope.net is mirrored to hope.net.
[49:40.110 --> 49:42.190]  So what is that again, Redbird?
[49:42.390 --> 49:44.650]  Wiki.hopenumber6.net.
[49:44.830 --> 49:48.170]  So that's the word hope, the word number, and the number six.
[49:48.350 --> 49:49.250]  No, not the number six.
[49:49.350 --> 49:50.110]  It's spelled out, isn't it?
[49:50.150 --> 49:50.530]  Spelled out.
[49:50.530 --> 49:50.830]  Oh.
[49:51.010 --> 49:51.150]  Yeah.
[49:51.250 --> 49:51.410]  Okay.
[49:51.410 --> 49:57.350]  If this is too confusing for you, you could just write hope.net and then click on the poofy thing that says wiki.
[49:57.470 --> 49:58.230]  And how do you spell wiki?
[49:58.830 --> 50:00.930]  You don't have to know if you're clicking on the poofy thing.
[50:01.050 --> 50:03.410]  Well, you spell it W-I-K-I, so never mind that.
[50:03.530 --> 50:04.810]  Is this a cheesy poofy thing?
[50:04.890 --> 50:07.530]  Don't have time to go into how wikis got started.
[50:08.590 --> 50:08.910]  Okay.
[50:09.130 --> 50:11.750]  So our friend Lazlo wrote an article.
[50:11.910 --> 50:13.150]  You guys see this in the Long Island Press.
[50:13.270 --> 50:13.990]  There was a hacker...
[50:13.990 --> 50:15.170]  500 pages, he said.
[50:15.530 --> 50:15.850]  Lazlo?
[50:15.970 --> 50:16.890]  I think he meant 500 words.
[50:16.970 --> 50:18.830]  There was a hacker lobe in every human brain.
[50:18.830 --> 50:24.870]  It's that part of you that wonders how you could turn off the mobile phone of Queen Yak-A-Lot on the train.
[50:25.050 --> 50:31.150]  Or the paranoid bit that wonders how to keep your mom or boy-slash-girlfriend from seeing what websites you visited last night.
[50:31.550 --> 50:36.050]  It's that spot that made you feel really special when you figured out one of the hidden messages in the Da Vinci Code.
[50:37.250 --> 50:39.910]  Well, anyway, I'd like to read the whole thing, but we're pretty much out of time.
[50:40.050 --> 50:42.090]  But it's in this week's Long Island Press.
[50:42.230 --> 50:46.750]  And Lazlo will be there, of course, as well, as he has been, I think, every conference that we've had.
[50:47.090 --> 50:53.890]  And you can hear him on the Technophile, which is a program that I think comes your way on various satellite radio services and some stations.
[50:54.830 --> 50:59.010]  And again, for more on the Hope Conference, HopeNumber6.net, all sorts of information.
[50:59.190 --> 50:59.310]  Okay.
[50:59.430 --> 51:05.730]  We only have a couple of minutes left, so I don't think the person is updating the numbers because it still says zero, but I know we've got a lot of calls.
[51:06.190 --> 51:06.910]  So hopefully...
[51:06.910 --> 51:08.090]  There's still time for more calls, of course.
[51:08.090 --> 51:08.670]  There is time.
[51:08.770 --> 51:09.430]  Not very much time.
[51:09.510 --> 51:11.770]  212-209-2950.
[51:12.130 --> 51:12.270]  Yeah.
[51:12.450 --> 51:20.270]  If you've liked anything we've ever said over the years, or if you've hated anything that we've said over the years and it got you to do something, call in and pledge.
[51:20.270 --> 51:23.410]  Because either way, we made you do something, and that should be rewarded.
[51:23.550 --> 51:23.930]  Oh, yeah.
[51:24.050 --> 51:26.610]  But we made you do something that you wanted to do.
[51:26.770 --> 51:28.090]  It's not like we forced you to do something.
[51:28.090 --> 51:28.230]  That's true.
[51:28.310 --> 51:29.950]  We didn't force you to do something you didn't want to do.
[51:30.030 --> 51:30.230]  Yeah.
[51:30.510 --> 51:32.070]  We made you a better person.
[51:32.090 --> 51:32.270]  One way or another.
[51:32.270 --> 51:36.190]  Well, we helped you to realize by opening up your eyes that there's more...
[51:36.270 --> 51:40.570]  There's more to this world than just your daily commute and reading the New York Post every day.
[51:40.690 --> 51:43.090]  And the more you pledge, the less of this you have to listen to.
[51:43.270 --> 51:44.210]  That's true.
[51:44.210 --> 51:45.310]  In theory, that's true.
[51:45.930 --> 51:48.530]  But the point is, pledging is not a bad thing.
[51:48.530 --> 51:53.110]  It's not something that will make you feel cheap or like you've been ripped off or anything like that.
[51:53.170 --> 51:53.910]  It will make you feel good.
[51:53.910 --> 52:00.330]  I think we've all pledged at one point, and it's a good feeling knowing that you're a part of this place and that you're helping to keep it here.
[52:01.270 --> 52:05.990]  Okay, I can tell by the glaring at the door that it's time for the next show to come in.
[52:06.610 --> 52:11.030]  So I guess that means this is your last chance to call up, 212-209-2950.
[52:11.030 --> 52:13.710]  It's also the last time we can tell you to come to Hope No.
[52:13.810 --> 52:15.970]  6 and experience the...
[52:17.410 --> 52:18.550]  The magic of hacking?
[52:18.730 --> 52:20.250]  The time of your life.
[52:20.410 --> 52:21.330]  How do I want to say that?
[52:21.470 --> 52:24.110]  I was going to say the experience of a lifetime, but you can't...
[52:24.110 --> 52:25.610]  Yeah, I guess it's going to be fun.
[52:25.710 --> 52:26.270]  It's going to be amazing.
[52:26.350 --> 52:27.010]  It'll be great.
[52:27.230 --> 52:28.070]  It'll be cool.
[52:28.610 --> 52:30.250]  Meet the international hacking scene there.
[52:30.410 --> 52:31.010]  Yeah, yeah.
[52:31.290 --> 52:32.730]  That's what I found to be so cool.
[52:32.890 --> 52:35.090]  All the hopes we've ever done is the international scene.
[52:35.210 --> 52:43.130]  We get people from all over the world showing up, and it's just so neat to know that people from far corners of the planet are into the same thing, and we can learn from each other.
[52:43.610 --> 52:47.870]  All right, we have a special outro this week that you guys picked out.
[52:48.130 --> 52:49.310]  You want to tell us something about this, Mike?
[52:50.110 --> 52:56.970]  Well, we talked about it a lot last week, and the voice on this piece is Senator Ted Stevens.
[52:57.270 --> 52:57.670]  Okay.
[52:58.030 --> 52:59.730]  Now, you're going to hear him talking.
[52:59.810 --> 53:05.570]  We were talking about making fun of him last week, talking about the internet being a series of tubes and not a truck, I believe.
[53:06.850 --> 53:11.250]  And you'll hear his voice, and it's very annoying, but, you know, it's not so much the way this was edited together.
[53:13.130 --> 53:13.870]  It's annoying to listen to.
[53:14.250 --> 53:15.730]  Yeah, I listened to the whole speech.
[53:15.990 --> 53:16.710]  It's this bad.
[53:16.770 --> 53:17.050]  It really is.
[53:17.050 --> 53:19.910]  I don't want to be nasty or anything like that, but, man, it's just...
[53:20.530 --> 53:24.910]  Talking to this guy, having a conversation with this guy, you want to run out of the room screaming, and you'll say, okay, yeah, the internet's a tube, whatever.
[53:25.170 --> 53:25.870]  Just stop talking.
[53:26.790 --> 53:28.310]  All right, we're going to stop talking now.
[53:28.430 --> 53:29.630]  212-209-2950.
[53:29.810 --> 53:31.170]  Please call in, show your support.
[53:31.650 --> 53:33.030]  We'll see you at the HOPE conference this weekend.
[53:33.250 --> 53:34.410]  www.hope.net.
[53:34.610 --> 53:34.810]  Good night.
[53:35.050 --> 53:38.090]  The internet was sent by my staff at 10 o'clock in the morning on Friday.
[53:38.290 --> 53:39.170]  I got it yesterday.
[53:43.130 --> 53:46.310]  Because it got tangled up with all these things that are going on the internet commercially.
[53:46.530 --> 53:55.990]  I think it's absolutely essential to provide streaming stuff that are going on the internet.
[53:58.810 --> 54:00.170]  The tubes.
[54:03.260 --> 54:05.840]  Fiber optic network tubes.
[54:09.090 --> 54:11.050]  I don't have to have that kind of speed.
[54:11.330 --> 54:15.190]  I don't think anyone here has defined what that neutrality is.
[54:15.550 --> 54:16.850]  It's not a big truck.
[54:17.150 --> 54:18.590]  It's a series of tubes.
[54:20.410 --> 54:22.910]  And here we have this one situation.
[54:23.290 --> 54:25.710]  10 movies streaming across that internet.
[54:28.910 --> 54:33.990]  I don't think we are saying that they cannot.
[54:34.570 --> 54:37.630]  I think it's absolutely essential.
[54:38.170 --> 54:41.570]  And the senator, whether you realize that, you're asking for regulation.
[54:41.810 --> 54:44.870]  For massively invading this world of the internet.
[54:45.170 --> 54:45.650]  Mr. Chairman.
[54:45.970 --> 54:46.630]  Yes, sir.
[54:46.730 --> 54:47.030]  I'm sorry.
[54:47.250 --> 54:48.250]  I thought you were invading.
[54:48.490 --> 54:48.550]  I'm sorry.
[54:48.550 --> 55:10.950]  No, I'm not finished, but when we take fiber optics, really indicate that anyone that wants to use this system for massive, massive commercial purposes, those tubes can be filled, tangled up tubes.
[55:12.030 --> 55:15.670]  The internet is not something that you just dump something on.
[55:15.990 --> 55:16.590]  It's not a big truck.
[55:16.970 --> 55:18.410]  It's a series of tubes.
[55:19.250 --> 55:20.510]  Why did we do that?
[55:22.770 --> 55:23.250]  Why?
[55:25.010 --> 55:25.890]  Enormous tubes.
[55:31.720 --> 55:33.340]  Massive, massive tubes.
[55:33.600 --> 55:36.340]  It really is the internet consumer bill of rights.
[55:36.700 --> 55:38.040]  Because he got tangled up with all his...
[55:38.040 --> 55:39.400]  Hey, hey, hey, hey.
[55:39.560 --> 55:40.820]  Wow, that guy, yeah.
[55:41.340 --> 55:42.080]  All right.
[55:42.220 --> 55:43.680]  Hey, you know, it's 8 p.m.
[55:43.680 --> 55:44.460]  here on WBQ.
[55:44.480 --> 55:48.080]  BAI, New York 99.5 FM.
[55:48.420 --> 55:52.580]  And you need to know it is July the 19th, 2006.