[00:02.660 --> 00:08.020]  And you're listening to radio station WBAI in New York, where the time is just about 7 o'clock.
[00:08.220 --> 00:11.740]  That means, once again, it's time for Off the Hook.
[00:19.850 --> 00:24.350]  The telephone keeps ringing, so I ripped it off the wall.
[00:25.270 --> 00:29.910]  I cut myself while shaving, now I can't make a cough.
[00:30.550 --> 00:32.710]  We couldn't get much worse.
[00:35.480 --> 00:38.160]  Bum-diddly-bump, but the best is better for worst.
[00:38.680 --> 00:40.660]  I hope that's understood.
[00:40.860 --> 00:41.740]  Bum-diddly-bump!
[01:40.520 --> 01:43.020]  And a very good evening to hear by the program is Off the Hook.
[01:43.140 --> 01:51.980]  Emmanuel Goldstein here with you on the post-hope number 6 program.
[01:52.600 --> 01:55.780]  And, wow, we're recovering.
[01:56.260 --> 01:59.560]  Slowly but surely, we have a full cast of characters here.
[02:01.760 --> 02:02.640]  Let's start.
[02:02.920 --> 02:04.380]  I can't see everybody in the studio.
[02:04.600 --> 02:08.300]  We're going to be calling a few people as well and reminiscing over what happened over the weekend.
[02:08.300 --> 02:15.100]  And, of course, we want to hear from you, the listeners and, hopefully, attendees of the conference, to tell us what you thought of the whole thing.
[02:15.860 --> 02:16.560]  That's Arseny.
[02:16.660 --> 02:18.120]  You're over there in Gypsy, it looks like.
[02:18.300 --> 02:18.800]  Yeah, hi.
[02:19.020 --> 02:19.400]  How are you doing?
[02:19.720 --> 02:21.400]  And AutoJack, I see you over there.
[02:21.700 --> 02:22.440]  Yo, what's up?
[02:22.500 --> 02:23.680]  Visiting from California.
[02:24.000 --> 02:24.200]  Mike.
[02:24.560 --> 02:24.840]  Hi.
[02:25.400 --> 02:26.120]  And Redbird.
[02:26.320 --> 02:26.700]  Good evening.
[02:27.480 --> 02:28.080]  I'll get to you.
[02:28.260 --> 02:28.900]  I'll get to you.
[02:29.900 --> 02:30.900]  Lynn is here.
[02:31.100 --> 02:31.300]  Hello.
[02:31.520 --> 02:32.220]  And there you are, Jim.
[02:32.400 --> 02:32.600]  Hello.
[02:38.300 --> 02:39.000]  What has become of him.
[02:39.160 --> 02:40.080]  This happens after hope.
[02:40.200 --> 02:42.660]  People go missing, and you don't know.
[02:42.840 --> 02:43.700]  You lose days.
[02:43.840 --> 02:48.620]  You wake up, it's suddenly Friday, and you owe all these bills and things, and everybody's mad at you.
[02:49.000 --> 02:53.840]  I left him a message explaining how to answer the phone, so maybe he'll retrieve that, and then we'll be all set.
[02:53.840 --> 02:57.000]  Well, you know, knowledge does get lost sometimes at the conferences, too.
[02:57.260 --> 02:57.360]  Yeah.
[02:57.920 --> 02:59.220]  Other people, please step up with the microphone.
[02:59.320 --> 03:00.120]  Kevin, number two, is here.
[03:00.880 --> 03:01.320]  I'm sorry.
[03:01.380 --> 03:02.300]  Should I not be calling you that?
[03:02.320 --> 03:05.060]  Because you were a number two at the conference, and your name is Kevin.
[03:05.520 --> 03:05.940]  That's fine.
[03:05.940 --> 03:07.940]  And that's how you introduce yourself in social engineering, I think.
[03:08.220 --> 03:09.920]  He's not the Kevin that was not at the conference.
[03:10.000 --> 03:10.200]  No.
[03:10.360 --> 03:13.520]  In fact, I just talked to the Kevin who was not at the conference, and he's also not in the country.
[03:14.520 --> 03:15.560]  We'll get to that in a second.
[03:16.560 --> 03:17.880]  But, yeah, Kevin...
[03:17.880 --> 03:19.500]  Okay, I said he's a number two.
[03:19.740 --> 03:24.620]  I should point out, everybody at the conference who was a staff person was known as number two.
[03:25.120 --> 03:25.800]  Interesting, isn't it?
[03:25.960 --> 03:27.540]  And everyone else was assigned numbers.
[03:28.400 --> 03:33.640]  And I was assigned number six for some reason, and at the end of the conference, we found out who number one was.
[03:34.580 --> 03:35.240]  Yes, we did.
[03:35.340 --> 03:35.640]  We did.
[03:35.940 --> 03:37.360]  But enough said about that.
[03:37.800 --> 03:39.300]  There's Fred over there in the back.
[03:39.760 --> 03:43.340]  And Fred, you're responsible for all the artwork that was around the conference.
[03:43.340 --> 03:45.240]  And what a fantastic job you did.
[03:45.680 --> 03:46.380]  Thank you.
[03:46.740 --> 03:50.600]  All the people wearing shirts, which I don't have.
[03:51.260 --> 03:53.440]  I forgot to get a volunteer shirt.
[03:53.560 --> 03:54.560]  I think they're all gone now.
[03:55.060 --> 04:01.760]  But incredible posters and shirts and just the overall wacky theme that we had.
[04:01.760 --> 04:03.880]  I think you inspired a lot of that.
[04:03.880 --> 04:05.880]  And also, you've been doing the covers this year for 2600.
[04:06.120 --> 04:06.780]  Yeah, that's right.
[04:06.800 --> 04:08.500]  And we've still got two more to go.
[04:08.680 --> 04:09.780]  Two more to go for this year.
[04:10.420 --> 04:11.300]  I like this one.
[04:11.480 --> 04:12.140]  It's pretty cool.
[04:12.260 --> 04:14.280]  Yeah, the new issue came out last week.
[04:14.300 --> 04:17.020]  As if we didn't have enough to worry about, the issue came out too.
[04:18.140 --> 04:19.800]  You know that cover came in really handy?
[04:20.080 --> 04:24.780]  Because during one of the radio talks, Lynn actually needed the coordinates for APRS.
[04:24.920 --> 04:26.200]  And they were right on the cover.
[04:26.360 --> 04:26.780]  Oh, wow.
[04:27.120 --> 04:27.760]  How about this?
[04:27.760 --> 04:30.600]  So there's secret coordinates on the cover.
[04:30.600 --> 04:31.540]  Should I not have said that?
[04:31.600 --> 04:32.200]  Well, no, it's okay.
[04:32.320 --> 04:32.600]  It's okay.
[04:32.640 --> 04:33.140]  I'm sure by now.
[04:33.140 --> 04:34.940]  It's not secret anymore, but that's fine.
[04:35.000 --> 04:35.320]  That's fine.
[04:36.580 --> 04:37.460]  Okay, let's see.
[04:38.180 --> 04:39.440]  I'd like to make a phone call first.
[04:39.600 --> 04:40.580]  Let's start off by making a phone call.
[04:40.660 --> 04:41.880]  If you can hand me that, thank you very much.
[04:42.200 --> 04:46.860]  And maybe somebody could start off reminiscing about something while I'm dialing.
[04:47.140 --> 04:48.260]  Would that be okay?
[04:48.480 --> 04:48.940]  How about Mike?
[04:49.020 --> 04:50.420]  Why don't you just give us an overall...
[04:50.420 --> 04:53.540]  You know, I told a lot of stories yesterday on Off the Wall.
[04:53.940 --> 04:54.260]  Uh-huh.
[04:54.480 --> 04:56.740]  Maybe someone else has a new one that I haven't told already.
[04:56.780 --> 04:56.780]  That's true.
[04:56.780 --> 04:57.220]  But you were on the phone.
[04:57.240 --> 04:58.020]  You weren't in the studio.
[04:58.160 --> 04:58.420]  I know.
[04:58.520 --> 04:59.400]  I sounded a lot worse.
[04:59.400 --> 05:00.200]  I listened to it.
[05:00.320 --> 05:01.700]  What is wrong with that radio station?
[05:02.160 --> 05:02.840]  I don't know.
[05:03.360 --> 05:04.020]  Nothing works.
[05:04.100 --> 05:05.520]  As opposed to this place where everything works.
[05:05.760 --> 05:06.120]  Oh, okay.
[05:06.220 --> 05:07.120]  Why, did it really sound that bad?
[05:07.380 --> 05:08.100]  It was pretty bad.
[05:08.140 --> 05:08.800]  Yeah, it was pretty bad.
[05:08.900 --> 05:09.220]  Oh, boy.
[05:09.460 --> 05:12.960]  Because not what we were saying so much, but what was the way it sounded.
[05:13.140 --> 05:16.480]  The quality of the people on the telephone left something to be the sound.
[05:16.480 --> 05:19.560]  Well, let me just point out, your telephone also is pretty bad yourself.
[05:19.560 --> 05:25.420]  I mean, it's just you can't understand what you're saying half the time, but I think what you're referring to is it was cutting in and out on the board.
[05:25.900 --> 05:28.140]  Sometimes it was on speakerphone, sometimes it was in the board, right?
[05:28.420 --> 05:29.700]  I don't know what was going on.
[05:29.800 --> 05:29.900]  Yeah.
[05:29.900 --> 05:30.060]  All right.
[05:31.220 --> 05:32.080]  Let's get a dial tone.
[05:33.100 --> 05:34.420]  And we're going to make a phone call.
[05:35.760 --> 05:39.980]  Arsene, you were involved in almost every aspect of the conference, so perhaps you can...
[05:39.980 --> 05:43.120]  Well, we actually had a guy sell energy drinks.
[05:43.320 --> 05:49.820]  He was selling jolt balls among regular drinks, like Coke and whatever.
[05:50.260 --> 05:53.940]  But it was interesting because jolt has totally changed.
[05:54.020 --> 05:54.800]  Are you going to cut me off?
[05:54.920 --> 05:55.060]  Yeah.
[05:55.220 --> 05:57.380]  Well, I just wanted about 10 seconds of reminiscing.
[05:57.380 --> 05:57.620]  Oh, okay.
[05:57.700 --> 05:58.560]  And you're starting a story.
[05:58.740 --> 05:59.900]  But hold that thought.
[06:00.040 --> 06:01.580]  We got a phone call in progress.
[06:09.660 --> 06:37.520]  Right after, spineless Democrats can't even come up with a filibuster to keep a neo-Nazi off the Supreme Court, comes the lovely news that Halliburton subsidiary, KBR, just got a $385 million contract on January 24th from the Department of Homeland Security for the construction of temporary detention facilities inside the United States in case of,
[06:37.580 --> 06:45.900]  quote, an emergency influx of immigrants or to support the rapid development of new programs or natural disaster.
[06:46.180 --> 06:48.620]  What new programs?
[06:48.920 --> 06:58.540]  Speaking of Nazis, check out the new Environmental Protection Agency rules on testing pesticides on children without them or their parents' permission.
[06:58.880 --> 07:11.100]  Neglected or abused infants can be subjected to pesticide tests or mentally handicapped or orphaned infants can also be used, as can children outside the U.S.
[07:11.200 --> 07:17.580]  in countries that have even less laws protecting human beings than this one now does.
[07:18.100 --> 07:19.440]  Sieg Heil, baby.
[07:19.780 --> 07:21.700]  The Corporate Reich is here.
[07:25.710 --> 07:28.990]  Uh, Jello, you have the longest answering machine message of anybody I know.
[07:29.310 --> 07:31.390]  Uh, if you're there, please pick up.
[07:32.130 --> 07:32.410]  Hello?
[07:32.650 --> 07:33.690]  Jello, how are you?
[07:33.950 --> 07:34.390]  Who's this?
[07:34.570 --> 07:37.010]  This is Emmanuel, and you're live on the air at WBAI.
[07:37.710 --> 07:39.730]  Ah, more surveillance.
[07:40.350 --> 07:40.870]  Yes.
[07:41.270 --> 07:42.470]  Have a good time this weekend?
[07:43.170 --> 07:44.270]  Yeah, yeah.
[07:44.490 --> 07:59.550]  I think I said to you, I was a little... one of my observations was there seemed to be a greater right-wing and spook presence than there had been at some of the earlier conventions, which isn't necessarily a totally bad thing.
[07:59.550 --> 08:11.490]  I mean, when I've done panels for industry people on music censorship, I always ask that the religious right be represented because people won't believe me when I describe them otherwise.
[08:11.790 --> 08:18.030]  Although it was a little creepy when they had the, uh, privacy is dead, get over it panel.
[08:18.230 --> 08:27.970]  How many people who were lined up to ask questions were asking nuts and bolts shop talk stuff, strongly hitting, yeah, I'd like to get into this field and spy on people too.
[08:28.490 --> 08:31.450]  And then, what do I find today?
[08:32.010 --> 08:55.670]  Opening up the Sunday paper as I was, uh, sitting on the toilet waiting for you to call, but a, uh, front page story on a, uh, Central Valley, uh, city of Clovis, California, near Fresno, who's very proud of the fact that they're the cutting edge of keeping everyone in town under surveillance cameras.
[08:56.090 --> 08:58.250]  And this is the future of policing.
[08:58.250 --> 09:07.430]  They even have one aimed at a skate park in the park that they're thinking of putting online so parents can watch their kids and everything.
[09:07.790 --> 09:13.470]  You know, uh, you know, your whole generation grows up with a nanny cam throughout their whole lives.
[09:13.510 --> 09:18.830]  And I'm not sure this is quite where, uh, human rights should be going.
[09:19.570 --> 09:20.290]  Definitely not.
[09:20.650 --> 09:21.290]  Definitely not.
[09:21.410 --> 09:29.690]  But listen, uh, Jello, um, we're, we're, we're talking about the conference, uh, this, this, um, this hour, we have a whole studio filled with people.
[09:29.830 --> 09:39.450]  And I guess basically we're just, um, trying to get a sense as to, uh, any, any highlights or, uh, or memories that you might want to share with us and, um, any, any other thoughts like that.
[09:39.530 --> 09:40.710]  It was always great having you here.
[09:40.770 --> 09:42.830]  I think this is your, your third conference with us.
[09:43.150 --> 09:44.710]  Fourth, my goodness.
[09:45.150 --> 09:45.370]  Yep.
[09:45.570 --> 09:46.730]  Keep dragging me back.
[09:48.030 --> 10:00.490]  So, uh, apart from, apart from there being more, uh, as you say, right-wing people there or, or people interested in surveillance as, as something they'd like to do, um, did, did you find the same, uh, receptiveness in your audience?
[10:01.150 --> 10:02.610]  For the most part, yeah.
[10:02.730 --> 10:06.310]  A few people took off real early, but everybody else stayed.
[10:06.310 --> 10:06.970]  I don't know.
[10:07.090 --> 10:21.410]  Maybe it was my greeting to the FBI I gave at the beginning of the talk where I simply jumped up on the table and mooned them and, uh, let my butthole do the talking for a while as I manipulated it like a puppet.
[10:21.610 --> 10:25.850]  I was, I was going to mention that, but, uh, I, I thought maybe I should let you mention that.
[10:26.850 --> 10:28.650]  But yeah, that got attention.
[10:28.830 --> 10:29.770]  That definitely got people's attention.
[10:29.770 --> 10:38.010]  Yeah, one woman who worked on the conference afterwards made a point of telling me she was offended by that, but, uh, I guess from a politically correct standpoint.
[10:38.250 --> 10:40.490]  I understand t-shirts are being made of that.
[10:40.650 --> 10:41.030]  Is that true?
[10:41.330 --> 10:41.850]  What's that?
[10:41.950 --> 10:46.710]  I, I heard, I rumored that someone's making t-shirts of that, but, uh, I guess we'll find out soon enough.
[10:46.930 --> 10:52.090]  You'd be amazed what people sell on eBay and claim it's my, it's my name or whatever.
[10:52.230 --> 10:56.050]  There's two dozen Jell-O B offers on MySpace and none of them are me.
[10:56.330 --> 11:01.670]  And twice as many people claiming to be Wesley Willis who passed away in 2003.
[11:03.410 --> 11:03.810]  Wow.
[11:04.030 --> 11:10.870]  Well, listen, Jell-O, again, uh, I know you're busy and, uh, have to get back to all the things you're doing back out there, but, uh, it's great having you.
[11:10.910 --> 11:12.430]  Hopefully we'll have you again at the next one.
[11:12.550 --> 11:14.630]  Any, any final messages you want to send to people?
[11:15.210 --> 11:23.810]  Well, I, um, it would be the same one that I, that I ended my talk with in that, uh, you know, the privacy is dead panel and other things.
[11:23.990 --> 11:37.010]  There was basically people from the other side just kind of sitting back glibly saying, no matter how smart you geeks think you are, we're a few steps ahead of you and we can shut your ass down anytime we want.
[11:37.550 --> 11:43.690]  Exhibit A, Stephen Rambam being taken out by the FBI before his panel even started.
[11:44.630 --> 11:47.290]  And I still don't know why that was either.
[11:47.290 --> 11:50.390]  Somebody told me he was arrested for impersonating an FBI agent.
[11:51.250 --> 11:58.770]  Well, that's, uh, that's what the newspaper, uh, reports are saying, but, um, we're gonna, we're gonna get into that a little bit more in this hour as well.
[11:58.770 --> 11:59.150]  Okay.
[11:59.430 --> 11:59.510]  Yeah.
[11:59.610 --> 12:16.390]  Well, the, the other thing that I talked about was, I mean, the worst form of, uh, of, uh, government hacktivism against the public at large at this point is, um, election fraud through monkeying with digital voting machines.
[12:16.830 --> 12:18.570]  And even Robert F.
[12:18.750 --> 12:30.430]  Kennedy Jr. of all people documented just fact by fact in a article that, uh, should have gone out in the New York Times or something, went out only in the Rolling Stone, you know, that George W.
[12:30.670 --> 12:36.230]  Bush and, and his junta stole two presidential elections, not just one.
[12:36.470 --> 12:41.890]  And the main weapon of Ku Klux Bush is monkeying with those voting machines.
[12:42.310 --> 12:54.030]  So my message to everybody out there who have the skills, okay, those machines made by Diebold in particular, where you'd all you have to do is put an IPC card and you can change the election results.
[12:54.670 --> 12:58.590]  You know, Diebold, ES&S, Sequoia and the others who make those things.
[12:58.830 --> 13:14.390]  If those machines are that easily hacked, where are the hacktivists to prove that these machines, you know, that voting should not be privatized and voting should not be thrown into the digital cyber world where you can't have an election recount.
[13:14.590 --> 13:33.130]  And the way to prove that would be this fall, 2006, just imagine all these reptilian punditoids and talking head newscasters we have now, all going into conniptions like Dan Rather did over Jesse Ventura when he became governor of Minnesota, just freaking out.
[13:33.310 --> 13:40.550]  Well, it appears that for some reason, 12 states in a row now have elected Homer Simpson governor.
[13:41.630 --> 13:47.550]  You know, that, that I think would shut down digital vote fraud once and for all.
[13:48.070 --> 14:02.710]  John Kerry had his chance to do it and he wimped out and Al Gore had his chance to do it and wouldn't even recognize the Congressional Black Caucus in the aisles of the Senate that certified the rigged electoral college after the 2000 election, you know,
[14:02.710 --> 14:03.970]  gave his own election away.
[14:03.970 --> 14:05.110]  Maybe that was his job.
[14:05.110 --> 14:05.650]  I don't know.
[14:05.970 --> 14:13.610]  But it's, it's, it's, it's up to us to put a stop to this because voting and democracy itself, you know, is where all the other rights spring from.
[14:14.170 --> 14:22.850]  All right, Rogelio, ordinarily we should talk about this for hours on end, but, uh, we do have very limited amount of time today, but, uh, this is something that I really would like to get into in future conferences as well.
[14:22.970 --> 14:27.690]  We, we, to try to get a voting machine and hopefully next time we'll succeed in doing that and we can, we can play around with it.
[14:28.350 --> 14:30.230]  But again, we can't wait till next time.
[14:30.370 --> 14:31.310]  Got to do it this fall.
[14:31.570 --> 14:31.950]  All right.
[14:32.070 --> 14:41.050]  Well, uh, maybe we can talk about another project then, but, um, in any event we have to move on, but thanks so much for coming and thanks for, uh, for the speech and, uh, just making everybody think a little bit.
[14:41.250 --> 14:41.850]  Thank you.
[14:42.170 --> 14:42.410]  All right.
[14:42.510 --> 14:42.850]  Take care.
[14:43.350 --> 14:45.810]  Jell will be out for joining us, uh, from, from California.
[14:46.230 --> 14:57.570]  Uh, and, uh, he made reference to something that happened at the conference, which, uh, definitely was one of the most interesting things, one of the most interesting things that happened, uh, at the, um, three day event.
[14:58.030 --> 15:05.290]  Uh, and that involved, uh, Steve Rambam, who, uh, who was, uh, giving a, um, a talk, a two hour talk called privacy is dead.
[15:05.410 --> 15:05.930]  Get over it.
[15:06.550 --> 15:16.990]  Well, it turns out that what happened was, um, as, as we've talked about on this radio program, we had another, um, uh, seminar that was taking place, uh, upstairs on the sixth floor.
[15:17.290 --> 15:29.290]  A, um, I, I kind of, um, related to hope, but not, not entirely hope, um, uh, series of seminars, um, for people interested in private investigation and, and the tools that are used.
[15:29.470 --> 15:31.850]  And that went off, uh, fairly well from what I understand.
[15:32.530 --> 15:42.450]  And right after that ended, and right before Steve was going to come up to the 18th floor to give the two hour talk, uh, he was approached by a couple of FBI agents who whisked him away.
[15:42.710 --> 15:56.910]  And, uh, well, needless to say, that definitely stunned the people in the, um, entire conference space when we heard about that because of all the people, all the people that we know, that I know, uh, Steve is the last person you would expect something like that to happen to.
[15:57.390 --> 16:04.510]  And it sort of left us all kind of, uh, wondering what was going to happen next and why exactly this, um, this took place.
[16:05.110 --> 16:07.530]  Uh, so it was the talk of, uh, talk of the place.
[16:07.730 --> 16:09.570]  There, there was an article in the Washington Post.
[16:09.730 --> 16:11.650]  There was a crazy article in the New York Post.
[16:11.790 --> 16:14.450]  There was all kinds of, of, uh, fun things going on.
[16:14.870 --> 16:25.710]  Um, so, uh, we, uh, we were happy to say that Steve, uh, was able to, uh, um, be arraigned and be released on Monday.
[16:26.630 --> 16:28.690]  And in fact, uh, he joins us right now.
[16:28.970 --> 16:29.410]  Steve, welcome.
[16:29.610 --> 16:30.610]  Welcome back to the free world.
[16:30.870 --> 16:31.590]  Hi, Emmanuel.
[16:32.090 --> 16:32.330]  Wow.
[16:33.170 --> 16:35.450]  We knew this was going to be a heck of a conference.
[16:35.650 --> 16:38.010]  Um, but boy, this, uh, this really was something else.
[16:38.090 --> 16:41.810]  And fortunately the FBI cooperated with our publicity efforts.
[16:41.970 --> 16:42.650]  Yeah, they sure did.
[16:42.790 --> 16:44.570]  They, they, they, they played their part perfectly.
[16:44.810 --> 16:45.010]  Yeah.
[16:45.510 --> 16:46.390]  Uh, but you're okay.
[16:46.810 --> 16:48.010]  I'm absolutely okay.
[16:48.290 --> 16:48.490]  All right.
[16:48.550 --> 16:49.570]  Everybody was really worried.
[16:49.710 --> 16:52.210]  Uh, wondering what was we thought you might be on the way to Guantanamo or something?
[16:52.310 --> 16:55.230]  Well, I shared their concern for about 30 hours.
[16:55.390 --> 16:55.590]  Mm-hmm.
[16:55.790 --> 17:01.890]  Now I understand, uh, since this is an ongoing case, I don't want to ask things that, uh, you know, your lawyer might get a heart attack.
[17:01.890 --> 17:04.990]  There's an attorney that will smack me with a rolled up newspaper.
[17:05.210 --> 17:05.250]  Yeah.
[17:05.250 --> 17:06.690]  If I say too much, that's right.
[17:06.690 --> 17:11.210]  But maybe we could talk about the panel that you were going to give that the feds prevented you from giving.
[17:11.690 --> 17:17.650]  And, and will in fact be given at some point in the immediate future.
[17:17.690 --> 17:18.810]  I think we should talk about that.
[17:18.910 --> 17:19.110]  Right.
[17:19.250 --> 17:27.050]  Well, now we had a two hour discussion about privacy is dead with the, with the panelists that had been at your seminar and they were able to carry through pretty well from what I've heard.
[17:27.290 --> 17:27.650]  Yes.
[17:27.970 --> 17:29.310]  I've heard, I've heard good things.
[17:29.430 --> 17:29.910]  Very smart.
[17:30.030 --> 17:31.030]  They're very smart fellows.
[17:31.290 --> 17:31.290]  Yeah.
[17:31.410 --> 17:31.870]  Yeah, they are.
[17:32.270 --> 17:37.190]  Uh, but one of the things they did not arrive in black helicopters like Jello Biafra seems to think.
[17:38.170 --> 17:40.130]  No, no, they couldn't get landing clearance there.
[17:40.290 --> 17:40.610]  Exactly.
[17:40.890 --> 17:48.430]  But, uh, one of the things that, um, that you were going to talk about that, I guess the big thing was involved a victim involved finding somebody.
[17:48.630 --> 17:50.690]  The victim is lurking in the corner.
[17:50.910 --> 17:51.630]  It's a victim lurking here.
[17:51.750 --> 17:51.910]  Yeah.
[17:52.110 --> 17:54.450]  If, if, if this was television, you could see him.
[17:54.610 --> 17:57.710]  He's a rather large, imposing, scary guy.
[17:58.690 --> 18:05.230]  Um, nevertheless, we were going to give him a, uh, rather impressive, uh, digital proctology exam.
[18:05.750 --> 18:08.810]  Uh, and amazingly, he's still willing.
[18:09.230 --> 18:10.670]  He's still willing to have you.
[18:10.910 --> 18:11.870]  Well, he's, he's here.
[18:12.070 --> 18:12.290]  Uh huh.
[18:12.770 --> 18:13.370]  He's here.
[18:14.190 --> 18:17.470]  Would you like to come up to the microphone and say something to, uh, over there?
[18:17.630 --> 18:17.750]  Okay.
[18:17.850 --> 18:19.350]  We have so many people here and so few microphones.
[18:19.490 --> 18:26.010]  Rick, introduce yourself and, uh... Hi, my name is Rick Dakin and, uh, apparently I like to volunteer for digital proctology.
[18:27.510 --> 18:32.810]  Now, okay, the information that, that, that, Rick, you gave to Steve was, uh, how much... My name.
[18:33.050 --> 18:33.350]  Your name.
[18:33.450 --> 18:34.290]  What you just did now.
[18:34.410 --> 18:35.110]  Well, name and phone number.
[18:35.150 --> 18:35.770]  Name and phone number.
[18:35.870 --> 18:37.870]  And from that, what, what were you able to get?
[18:38.970 --> 18:40.290]  903 pages of data.
[18:40.630 --> 18:40.950]  Wow.
[18:41.190 --> 18:41.310]  Yeah.
[18:41.670 --> 18:42.550]  Any, any skeletons?
[18:42.690 --> 18:43.090]  Anything shocking?
[18:43.490 --> 18:46.010]  Well, I mean, I mean, Rick, Rick knows the answer to that.
[18:46.130 --> 18:47.050]  I'm not going to detail it.
[18:47.090 --> 18:55.650]  I think if we're going to do the, uh, do the presentation, actually put it on and, and go through the whole, uh, go through the whole seminar.
[18:55.870 --> 18:58.170]  I'd rather not give too much away, but yes, quite a bit.
[18:58.310 --> 18:58.550]  Okay.
[18:59.110 --> 19:01.150]  I was, uh, quite startled.
[19:01.330 --> 19:04.530]  I had heard, uh, this show on, uh, you know, on delay.
[19:04.670 --> 19:12.690]  It was Sunday night and I emailed Steve on, uh, that night after dinner and, uh, there was an email from him when I woke up the next morning, 8 a.m.
[19:12.950 --> 19:13.210]  Monday.
[19:13.390 --> 19:16.070]  And I, he said, sure, you're the, you're the, you'll be our victim.
[19:16.230 --> 19:17.970]  And I said, great, give me a call.
[19:18.110 --> 19:19.470]  And he called me 45 minutes later.
[19:19.610 --> 19:24.530]  And the amount he knew in the 45 minutes between when I finally agreed and when he called me, it was sort of startling.
[19:24.830 --> 19:26.350]  See, that's, that's your problem, Steve.
[19:26.450 --> 19:27.110]  You scare people.
[19:27.290 --> 19:29.070]  You, you scare the wrong people sometimes.
[19:29.410 --> 19:32.890]  I am just a lovable, well-armed teddy bear.
[19:33.090 --> 19:33.330]  Uh-huh.
[19:33.450 --> 19:37.730]  Well, uh, apparently some more well-armed people were, uh, made nervous.
[19:37.730 --> 19:39.850]  They kind of trumped me, no question.
[19:40.490 --> 19:40.850]  Temporarily.
[19:41.050 --> 19:41.250]  Yeah.
[19:41.550 --> 19:44.470]  Well, I have no doubt, I have no doubt that, uh, all these articles that are appearing.
[19:44.570 --> 19:45.510]  Did you see the New York Post article?
[19:45.710 --> 19:47.590]  The headline on that was, was just unbelievable.
[19:47.790 --> 19:49.930]  Well, read that out loud, Jim.
[19:50.050 --> 19:50.430]  That's your paper.
[19:50.510 --> 19:50.710]  Go ahead.
[19:50.890 --> 19:51.030]  Yeah.
[19:51.310 --> 19:51.990]  P.I.
[19:52.070 --> 19:53.170]  in shock bust.
[19:53.370 --> 19:54.030]  Shock bust.
[19:54.070 --> 19:54.630]  Well, I, I.
[19:54.670 --> 19:55.650]  Poised for speech.
[19:56.030 --> 19:57.770]  Well, trust me, I was pretty shocked.
[19:57.950 --> 19:58.170]  Uh-huh.
[19:58.310 --> 20:04.270]  The truth is, when they came in, I mean, it was a seminar that was attended primarily by investigators in law enforcement.
[20:04.930 --> 20:12.430]  And a couple of guys came over, the two that I saw said, uh, Steve Romba, yeah, uh, well, this is, we're the FBI.
[20:13.270 --> 20:15.950]  And honest to goodness, my reaction was, yeah, sure.
[20:16.210 --> 20:16.690]  Take a seat.
[20:18.210 --> 20:21.190]  And then, of course, a large number of them appeared.
[20:21.770 --> 20:23.090]  A lot, how large a number?
[20:23.210 --> 20:25.910]  I think there was seven, you know, in the vests.
[20:26.150 --> 20:27.210]  Oh, I only heard three.
[20:27.350 --> 20:27.730]  There were seven?
[20:27.750 --> 20:28.950]  No, no, there were, there were seven.
[20:29.150 --> 20:29.510]  Wow.
[20:29.670 --> 20:30.190]  There were seven.
[20:30.410 --> 20:30.810]  And, uh.
[20:31.270 --> 20:32.950]  And they whisked you away from the sixth floor?
[20:36.110 --> 20:37.090]  You ground, actually.
[20:37.350 --> 20:37.650]  Wow.
[20:37.930 --> 20:42.770]  It was, it was, uh, sort of like Dick Cheney being removed to the undisclosed location.
[20:43.030 --> 20:43.230]  Mm-hmm.
[20:43.350 --> 20:44.770]  You ever experienced anything like this before?
[20:45.570 --> 20:47.650]  Not on that end of the handcuffs, no.
[20:48.010 --> 20:48.230]  Yeah, yeah.
[20:48.390 --> 20:49.590]  That's, that's awfully strange.
[20:50.170 --> 20:53.630]  I, I will tell you, this was, this was an incredibly enlightening experience.
[20:53.650 --> 20:56.070]  And I, I genuinely mean this.
[20:56.130 --> 20:58.090]  This is going to make me a much better investigator.
[20:58.590 --> 20:59.010]  Uh-huh.
[20:59.090 --> 21:03.550]  I mean, to have experienced the FBI from that end of it.
[21:03.870 --> 21:04.150]  Uh-huh.
[21:05.350 --> 21:13.190]  Uh, well, I, again, I don't want to get into any details that your lawyer might not want you to talk about, but can you say anything about... Which is, which is pretty much everything from this point forward.
[21:13.230 --> 21:13.450]  Really?
[21:13.650 --> 21:13.670]  Yeah.
[21:13.690 --> 21:13.830]  Yeah.
[21:13.830 --> 21:16.530]  Even, even what the food was like inside, or you can't talk about that?
[21:16.530 --> 21:19.170]  Oh, uh, worse than even you would imagine.
[21:19.390 --> 21:19.610]  Uh-huh.
[21:20.210 --> 21:24.090]  But they, they sent you to the federal place, not to the tombs.
[21:24.210 --> 21:28.430]  They, I, I was removed from the hotel at about ten minutes after four.
[21:28.850 --> 21:33.830]  I was in my permanent cell by a couple of minutes to eight.
[21:35.490 --> 21:36.010]  Uh-huh.
[21:37.370 --> 21:37.770]  Wow.
[21:38.090 --> 21:50.710]  Um, well, again, okay, so to, to get back to, uh, to what we're talking about as far as, uh, doing the panel, because that's the one thing, when you called me yesterday, that's the thing you were most adamant about, that you wanted to go ahead with this.
[21:50.710 --> 21:53.410]  Well, it just, it just offends me that these guys interfered with that.
[21:53.470 --> 22:12.790]  I mean, again, without going into it in, in, in great detail, I mean, I don't think anybody with half a brain doesn't understand that the, the way that they arrested me and the location that they arrested me, uh, at was calculated to have a certain effect.
[22:12.970 --> 22:13.090]  Uh-huh.
[22:13.090 --> 22:15.670]  I mean, they could have knocked on the door of my house.
[22:15.830 --> 22:18.830]  They could have called me up and said, come on down.
[22:19.050 --> 22:20.010]  I mean, I'm an investigator.
[22:20.010 --> 22:20.690]  What am I going to do?
[22:20.830 --> 22:22.050]  Go, go into hiding?
[22:22.310 --> 22:22.670]  Right.
[22:22.750 --> 22:24.330]  I mean, that, that's the thing I couldn't understand.
[22:24.490 --> 22:25.570]  They can find you anytime.
[22:25.850 --> 22:27.830]  You're, you're, you're not hard to find at all.
[22:28.410 --> 22:34.010]  And they come at a time when you're about to give a very important talk and enlighten a lot of people.
[22:34.730 --> 22:35.850]  Yeah, it is sending a message.
[22:35.970 --> 22:36.750]  You're absolutely right about that.
[22:36.790 --> 22:36.790]  Yeah.
[22:36.790 --> 22:43.490]  I'm not sure what the message is, except we want to tell the maximum number of people that we can screw with them.
[22:43.750 --> 22:44.010]  Mm-hmm.
[22:44.610 --> 22:44.850]  Mm-hmm.
[22:45.070 --> 22:49.790]  So our message to them in response is that we're going to do this anyway.
[22:50.170 --> 22:50.370]  That's correct.
[22:50.570 --> 22:51.230]  We're going to figure out a way.
[22:51.350 --> 22:57.070]  And this is where we need the help because you guys out there have connections to everything in the world.
[22:57.070 --> 23:09.030]  And what we're looking to do is present this two-hour talk seminar, uh, revelation of, of all the information you can find on somebody, uh, someplace in New York, uh, during the month of August, I believe.
[23:09.710 --> 23:10.950]  Uh, that would be ideal.
[23:11.290 --> 23:11.450]  Okay.
[23:11.490 --> 23:11.530]  Yeah.
[23:11.570 --> 23:20.890]  I'm, I'm from Florida and I would be more than willing to fly back up to New York for the event, but I'm leaving to go to Germany to tour to the Hacker Conference in Darmstadt.
[23:21.130 --> 23:22.270]  How long are you going to be going for?
[23:22.410 --> 23:23.690]  I'll be gone for 16 days.
[23:24.270 --> 23:25.210]  And then I come back.
[23:25.570 --> 23:30.150]  So we either have to do it before the 25th of August, something like that?
[23:30.270 --> 23:32.110]  Before the, by the, by the 28th.
[23:32.750 --> 23:33.110]  Okay.
[23:33.330 --> 23:37.370]  Let, let's, let's say somewhere before, between now and the 28th.
[23:37.450 --> 23:40.250]  Well, between the 8th and the 20th because I'm also going to DEF CON.
[23:40.490 --> 23:40.710]  Okay.
[23:40.870 --> 23:45.390]  Between the 8th and the 28th, apparently be a hacker, see the world.
[23:45.830 --> 23:46.070]  Um.
[23:46.290 --> 23:48.030]  I must note that I am in no way a hacker.
[23:49.130 --> 23:49.750]  I'm a writer.
[23:50.010 --> 23:50.930]  Hacker's not a negative.
[23:51.270 --> 23:51.510]  No, no, no.
[23:51.570 --> 23:51.690]  I'm not.
[23:51.750 --> 23:53.790]  Well, if you are a hacker, I don't want to pose as one.
[23:53.790 --> 23:57.630]  He's going to tell us, he'll tell us exactly what you are when, when we have this to our panel.
[23:57.830 --> 24:14.950]  I, I, I will tell you that Rick was an extraordinarily ideal, uh, subject, not only because he's old enough and active enough that, and by old enough, I mean, you know, held a job for a few years.
[24:15.190 --> 24:15.190]  Right.
[24:15.670 --> 24:23.330]  Owns a home and so on and so forth to, to have developed a personal history that's in the databases.
[24:23.750 --> 24:23.910]  Mm-hmm.
[24:23.910 --> 24:31.510]  But a lot of what he do, does is, is online or related to things that can easily be found online.
[24:31.670 --> 24:32.750]  It took us four and a half hours.
[24:32.870 --> 24:34.770]  We got 903 pages of stuff on.
[24:35.070 --> 24:35.430]  Amazing.
[24:35.590 --> 24:40.030]  So again, uh, and I wish we could spend more time on this, but we really have to race through a lot of things this hour.
[24:40.290 --> 24:53.930]  Uh, if you're out there, you're a listener that has some, some access to a, a space that can hold several hundred people, uh, where, uh, we can either pay nothing or pay minimal because obviously we've already, uh, paid for the rooms that we, uh, didn't.
[24:54.010 --> 24:58.430]  And I will have sufficient legal expenses to keep my discretionary money tied up.
[24:58.550 --> 24:59.130]  Yes, exactly.
[24:59.510 --> 25:02.890]  Uh, please, uh, write to us OTH at 2600.com.
[25:03.070 --> 25:08.970]  I'd like to be able to film this and send the copy to everybody who was at the conference because they deserve to see it.
[25:09.110 --> 25:11.290]  They deserve to, uh, to see what was taken from them.
[25:12.370 --> 25:14.090]  And, um, well, Steve, I'm just glad you're back.
[25:14.190 --> 25:14.830]  I'm glad you're out.
[25:15.030 --> 25:20.330]  And, uh, I was never worried that you wouldn't be, but, uh, I can't stick around.
[25:20.470 --> 25:20.890]  I'm going to leave.
[25:21.010 --> 25:25.370]  So if there's anybody who wants to call in right now and offer a space, please do so.
[25:25.490 --> 25:25.690]  Okay.
[25:25.750 --> 25:28.290]  We'll, we'll, we'll get the message to you because we'll be taking phone calls later on.
[25:28.370 --> 25:29.310]  But Steve, good to see you.
[25:29.630 --> 25:31.090]  And, uh, thanks for coming by.
[25:31.890 --> 25:33.150]  Uh, Bernie S.
[25:33.150 --> 25:34.630]  Are you joining us on the phone now?
[25:35.490 --> 25:35.750]  Wow.
[25:35.970 --> 25:46.310]  It's all I can say about, uh, about Steve's situation and the conference was just, uh, it, it's gotta be the, it's the most amazing hacker conference I've been to on this side of the ocean.
[25:46.510 --> 25:46.790]  Uh-huh.
[25:46.910 --> 25:47.950]  It really was, wasn't it?
[25:47.970 --> 25:50.090]  It was, uh, nonstop action.
[25:50.270 --> 25:53.650]  And I know because I was up for most of it, daytime, nighttime, you name it.
[25:54.030 --> 25:55.890]  And there was always something going on.
[25:56.070 --> 25:59.790]  You guys want to talk about some of the, some of the highlights, maybe some of the new things, RedHack, what do you got?
[25:59.790 --> 26:05.650]  Uh, one thing I thought was really nailed down at this conference was kind of the, the fusion of the second and the 18th floor.
[26:05.890 --> 26:10.670]  In the past, I've kind of felt like the talks and workshops and socializing were segregated.
[26:11.110 --> 26:19.550]  But, uh, this time, uh, with what Ethan did and what Arsene did, the, the second floor had, you know, screens that had the talks on them all the time.
[26:19.570 --> 26:25.210]  So you might be hanging out on the second floor, you know, maybe learning how to pick a lock or just hanging out.
[26:25.430 --> 26:28.850]  And you might walk by a talk that you found interesting and just sit down and watch it.
[26:28.850 --> 26:30.350]  You never felt like you were missing anything.
[26:30.510 --> 26:30.550]  Right.
[26:30.550 --> 26:31.370]  It was really nice.
[26:31.490 --> 26:31.630]  Yeah.
[26:31.730 --> 26:36.310]  That's one thing we tried to do this year because we've held that space now for three, uh, three separate times.
[26:36.410 --> 26:40.070]  H2K, H2K, wait, H2K2, we had the, uh, second floor as well.
[26:40.270 --> 26:42.250]  Fifth hope and now, now, uh, hope number six.
[26:42.790 --> 26:49.430]  And, uh, the two before this, we always had problems with the second floor because everybody would just shoot up to the 18th floor to watch the talks.
[26:49.650 --> 26:52.270]  And then, you know, there'd be a couple of thousand people up there.
[26:52.430 --> 26:52.490]  Sure.
[26:52.590 --> 26:56.450]  But there downstairs would be this huge expanse where not much was going on.
[26:56.450 --> 27:00.570]  And, and just sort of psychologically made it seem like it was emptier than it really was.
[27:00.710 --> 27:06.590]  This time though, we, we, thanks to the AV guys, we, we brought the stream down so people could see the conference downstairs as well.
[27:06.990 --> 27:10.570]  And we added a bunch of, uh, of things that we just didn't have before.
[27:10.810 --> 27:12.870]  And there was always something going on.
[27:13.090 --> 27:17.730]  I mean, for example, the lock picking area, there was, there were people there 24 hours a day for all three days.
[27:17.830 --> 27:24.790]  I mean, I don't think there's any time you could have gone to that area and not had people there playing, playing with locks and playing with other security devices like that.
[27:24.870 --> 27:26.350]  There were lots of, lots of people too.
[27:26.450 --> 27:31.510]  There were like three tables full of people on both sides all night long, learning to pick locks.
[27:31.690 --> 27:33.290]  It was an amazing thing to see.
[27:33.430 --> 27:34.570]  We had the Segways down there.
[27:34.650 --> 27:35.770]  We had the movie room down there.
[27:35.870 --> 27:40.390]  We had, uh, there were just, there was just so much stuff and it was great.
[27:40.530 --> 27:41.350]  You all were at Segways.
[27:41.510 --> 27:45.570]  We, we rented two Segways and we were running them back and forth, uh, day and night.
[27:45.690 --> 27:46.690]  Those are the coolest things ever.
[27:47.110 --> 27:47.970]  They really are.
[27:48.110 --> 27:48.690]  They really are.
[27:48.870 --> 27:53.750]  And at first we were kind of afraid, you know, someone's going to go plowing into a wall in one of these things and...
[27:53.750 --> 27:54.150]  And they did.
[27:54.270 --> 27:54.650]  They did.
[27:54.730 --> 27:55.050]  They did.
[27:55.110 --> 28:00.970]  But you know, somehow even that was special because, uh, it, uh, it, it was just, um, it was fun.
[28:01.090 --> 28:01.790]  It was fun the whole way.
[28:02.030 --> 28:04.890]  Those, those Segways had three different speeds, I believe too, right?
[28:04.890 --> 28:08.730]  They had like trainer speeds and then they had like these ridiculous racing speeds.
[28:08.970 --> 28:10.150]  Yeah, it was, it was really, really cool.
[28:10.450 --> 28:11.890]  But, uh, yes, go ahead, Bernie.
[28:11.890 --> 28:21.590]  I gotta say, one of the most impressive things I saw at the conference late one night or early one morning was someone running a Segway while they successfully picked a lock.
[28:21.770 --> 28:22.370]  That was pretty good.
[28:22.490 --> 28:23.370]  Oh my goodness, really?
[28:24.210 --> 28:27.270]  I wouldn't recommend that for the kids at home, but it was pretty good.
[28:27.690 --> 28:27.990]  Wow.
[28:28.130 --> 28:29.190]  And that's, and that's not easy to do.
[28:29.290 --> 28:31.790]  You need, you need, uh, at least one hand to ride the Segway.
[28:31.950 --> 28:34.150]  And then, can you pick a lock one-handed?
[28:34.290 --> 28:34.750]  You probably can.
[28:34.790 --> 28:36.010]  They were, they were bumping the lock, actually.
[28:36.010 --> 28:37.750]  They were, oh, they, okay, that's doable.
[28:38.270 --> 28:39.770]  They opened the lock without a key.
[28:39.770 --> 28:41.190]  But we had, we had all these vendors.
[28:41.390 --> 28:42.950]  They had some really cool products you could buy.
[28:43.190 --> 28:45.290]  There was, there was one guy with all this wireless equipment.
[28:45.530 --> 28:49.590]  I mean, anything you wanted related to 802.11, anything you could buy at that place.
[28:49.790 --> 28:51.190]  Uh, we had the make people there.
[28:51.310 --> 28:55.530]  We had, uh, just, just all sorts of really cool vendors and...
[28:55.530 --> 29:00.610]  One vendor had, uh, a quick turnaround and was making, uh, the internet a series of tubes t-shirts.
[29:00.750 --> 29:01.570]  Right, right in front of you.
[29:01.750 --> 29:01.870]  Yeah.
[29:02.030 --> 29:03.250]  Silk screening the t-shirts.
[29:03.250 --> 29:04.650]  That was really, that was really funny.
[29:04.650 --> 29:05.990]  For the people at the conference who saw that...
[29:05.990 --> 29:08.350]  That was related to the Ted Stevens quote.
[29:08.990 --> 29:09.130]  Yeah.
[29:09.890 --> 29:17.390]  For the people at the conference, you saw that, uh, wonderful graphic at the end of the conference, uh, uh, of, uh, a series of, uh, tubes.
[29:17.990 --> 29:21.390]  Um, you saw a few people wearing this cool t-shirt that had that graphic on them.
[29:21.490 --> 29:30.410]  And, uh, if you didn't get one at the conference, cause we gave a bunch of them away as door prizes, they're still more available if you go to series Please of FallopianTubes.com.
[29:30.570 --> 29:35.870]  You really got to... At least if you're not going to buy the shirt, go there and check out the graphic because it's hilarious.
[29:36.070 --> 29:36.770]  It's a good shirt.
[29:37.050 --> 29:38.090]  I'm wearing it right now.
[29:38.250 --> 29:42.670]  Totally related to what we were talking about or what was talked about a couple of weeks ago on the show.
[29:43.310 --> 29:47.650]  Bernie, we have to put you on hold for a second because we have to make another phone call.
[29:48.330 --> 29:50.750]  And while we're doing that, we have to free up another line.
[29:50.930 --> 29:57.290]  So actually, Mike, if you can see what's on that line, if there's nothing on that line, just hang it up and we'll call somebody else.
[29:57.350 --> 29:59.110]  And tie them into the conversation as well.
[29:59.230 --> 30:01.310]  But, Jim, you have some recollections?
[30:01.350 --> 30:05.490]  Yeah, the T-shirt ties into something else that I noticed about this conference.
[30:05.750 --> 30:11.490]  For the first time, we're getting a significant number of women, which is something that we've tried to do for years.
[30:12.690 --> 30:14.490]  Personally, I've tried to do it.
[30:14.770 --> 30:18.630]  Everybody knows my ex-significant other who is much involved with the early conferences.
[30:20.990 --> 30:24.170]  And the number of women has significantly increased.
[30:24.170 --> 30:29.050]  There were a number of very serious, involved technical panels with women leading them.
[30:29.330 --> 30:32.870]  There were women attending every talk.
[30:33.010 --> 30:35.390]  And these were not just hangers on.
[30:35.530 --> 30:40.970]  These were people who actually were in the hacking community, which warms my heart.
[30:41.390 --> 30:44.410]  There was a group that did open source clothing.
[30:44.410 --> 30:50.250]  And I think they tried to make designs centralized around technical things.
[30:50.390 --> 30:51.690]  So I spoke to them later.
[30:51.690 --> 30:52.230]  I talked to them.
[30:52.330 --> 30:56.610]  What they're doing is they're developing a database of various designers.
[30:56.850 --> 31:00.030]  So if you design something, they'll be able to tell you who it resembles.
[31:00.210 --> 31:01.270]  Oh, that's crazy.
[31:01.450 --> 31:02.930]  I think we have Laszlo on the phone.
[31:03.030 --> 31:04.650]  Laszlo, are you joining us here on Off the Hook?
[31:05.110 --> 31:08.070]  I must say, I heard some of the segues were damaged.
[31:08.210 --> 31:08.710]  Is that true?
[31:08.710 --> 31:16.050]  Well, superficial damage, like, well, for one thing, a couple of them came without the tools we needed to get them working properly.
[31:16.050 --> 31:17.950]  So we sort of had to hack out a solution ourselves.
[31:18.490 --> 31:23.290]  But I think one plastic button fell off, which really isn't so bad considering all the activity that was going on.
[31:23.870 --> 31:24.550]  And I think...
[31:24.550 --> 31:27.610]  I rode one at like two in the morning while drunk.
[31:28.470 --> 31:30.870]  Well, I don't know if that's something you want to admit to, Laszlo.
[31:31.010 --> 31:35.930]  We have a strict no drinking and segwaying policy at the place.
[31:35.990 --> 31:43.390]  Well, I must say, I was hoping to go through life without ever writing a segway just so I could have a firm claim to manhood.
[31:44.430 --> 31:46.130]  But I actually enjoyed it.
[31:46.770 --> 31:52.110]  No, I didn't see anybody... I saw plenty of frightened people, but thanks to our segway monitors.
[31:52.250 --> 31:53.710]  Kevin, you're one of our segway monitors.
[31:53.930 --> 31:56.750]  People were really scared when they got on these things the first time, weren't they?
[31:57.690 --> 31:59.170]  Yeah, really scared.
[31:59.310 --> 32:01.970]  They usually just floor it without realizing and hitting a wall.
[32:02.150 --> 32:02.650]  Yeah, because...
[32:02.650 --> 32:03.370]  Eventually got the hang of it.
[32:03.530 --> 32:05.430]  You lean forward and the thing moves forward.
[32:05.550 --> 32:07.270]  And if you keep leaning forward, it moves forward faster.
[32:07.290 --> 32:10.290]  If you lean backwards, it starts to slow down and eventually goes backwards.
[32:10.470 --> 32:12.850]  They couldn't understand the concept of leaning backwards and breaking.
[32:12.850 --> 32:18.070]  Well, one of the things, though, about the segways is that their use is extremely intuitive.
[32:18.310 --> 32:22.230]  And you can really get the hang of how to ride these things within a minute or two.
[32:22.450 --> 32:25.750]  And unfortunately, you know, there were columns in the way and stuff like that.
[32:25.750 --> 32:30.890]  No, I thought the columns added to it so much because it gave you something to maneuver around, to do little U-turns and things.
[32:31.110 --> 32:34.570]  Right, but you teach people how to drive before you put them in an obstacle course kind of thing.
[32:34.570 --> 32:36.390]  Not if you only have two days to do it, you know.
[32:36.530 --> 32:41.430]  And that's what I think was magic here is that people just kept coming back for more.
[32:41.430 --> 32:49.810]  I think one of the biggest hindrances to people learning the segway right off the bat was because of their lack of confidence, they'd put one foot on, which would then kind of push a little bit.
[32:49.950 --> 32:52.470]  And so it would already be moving a bit when they put the other foot on.
[32:52.510 --> 32:58.210]  So then it would just wobble back and forth and they'd either fall or, you know, hold on for dear life, tighten up, whatever.
[32:58.550 --> 33:01.290]  The segway tries to counteract the movement that...
[33:01.290 --> 33:04.190]  But if you were confident and you just stepped on it, one, two, it was fine.
[33:04.350 --> 33:08.150]  It didn't start moving in any direction until you decided you wanted to.
[33:08.150 --> 33:12.170]  Kevin, nobody really ran away and didn't come back that frightened of it, were they?
[33:12.750 --> 33:16.310]  Not that I know, but people did ride away and not come back on the segways.
[33:16.670 --> 33:19.330]  They rode away into the sunset on the segway and that was the end of them?
[33:19.450 --> 33:20.710]  Well, one ended up on 18.
[33:21.110 --> 33:21.650]  That's really all I know.
[33:21.650 --> 33:23.790]  Well, that only happened once and we quickly found it.
[33:24.970 --> 33:25.290]  All right.
[33:25.370 --> 33:27.230]  Well, that definitely was one of the hits of the conference.
[33:27.450 --> 33:30.370]  And, Mike, we had vendors, too, for the first time on the second floor.
[33:30.650 --> 33:30.870]  Yes.
[33:41.490 --> 33:44.450]  We had e-gold.
[33:44.850 --> 33:45.650]  E-gold, yes.
[33:45.710 --> 33:49.310]  Yes, which I'm still not really sure what they're all about, but they were there.
[33:49.450 --> 33:54.070]  I'm sure I can arrange for a phone call to be made to your private extension and an explanation given.
[33:54.310 --> 33:55.850]  You mean you didn't go to the e-gold talk?
[33:56.030 --> 33:57.470]  No, I didn't go to the e-gold talk.
[33:57.470 --> 33:58.650]  I went to very few talks.
[33:58.830 --> 33:59.830]  Not that they weren't good.
[33:59.830 --> 34:00.790]  I was just kind of busy.
[34:01.050 --> 34:04.290]  I mean, I barely had time to go to the talks I was supposed to be on.
[34:04.630 --> 34:04.850]  Yeah.
[34:04.850 --> 34:07.110]  And, oh, the Indecent Off the Hook.
[34:07.410 --> 34:08.410]  Yeah, I was on that.
[34:08.490 --> 34:09.390]  That was fun.
[34:09.550 --> 34:10.270]  That was fun.
[34:10.370 --> 34:15.450]  We did a program where we weren't worried about what language we used, and we sort of talked about language.
[34:15.650 --> 34:16.710]  It was mostly English.
[34:17.110 --> 34:21.730]  Yeah, it was English language, and we did a little theater, I suppose.
[34:22.150 --> 34:25.550]  This is the program that I am calling the Duck the FCC Talk.
[34:25.690 --> 34:27.070]  Well, you can call it that if you want.
[34:27.310 --> 34:27.410]  Yes, I can.
[34:27.430 --> 34:28.110]  Go right ahead.
[34:28.410 --> 34:37.310]  But it was definitely interesting, well-received, and a number of people came up afterwards and said, you know what, Emmanuel, that was a decent show, which is what I asked them to say at the beginning.
[34:37.330 --> 34:39.410]  But they went and they did it anyway, which is kind of cool.
[34:39.870 --> 34:41.690]  Now, is that one up on the web for download?
[34:41.690 --> 34:41.830]  It's not.
[34:42.010 --> 34:44.370]  You know, there's been some discussion what we should do.
[34:44.470 --> 34:47.210]  Should we add that to the archives as if it was on BAI?
[34:47.290 --> 34:50.110]  Should we put a sort of a red flag next to it?
[34:50.250 --> 34:51.190]  Should we make it flash?
[34:51.450 --> 34:53.350]  Should we put warning, children, don't go here?
[34:53.430 --> 34:53.990]  All of the above.
[34:54.130 --> 34:57.910]  You should just put a note saying that we were fined several million dollars for it.
[34:58.410 --> 35:01.970]  Well, every utterance of an obscenity is $325,000.
[35:01.970 --> 35:04.190]  And we were also showing pictures at the same time.
[35:05.030 --> 35:06.310]  Arsene, you had some of those pictures.
[35:06.390 --> 35:06.810]  What were they?
[35:06.950 --> 35:11.150]  Well, I just, I tried to find pictures that people might find offensive.
[35:11.510 --> 35:18.770]  And I mean, it was like things like men dress up like women and like obscene, I guess, decorations on people's lawns.
[35:18.810 --> 35:19.930]  But I mean, it was just kind of funny stuff.
[35:20.190 --> 35:20.850]  Michelangelo's David.
[35:21.170 --> 35:21.970]  Yeah, yeah, he was there.
[35:22.210 --> 35:22.770]  Things like that.
[35:22.910 --> 35:28.630]  I think you should post it on the website and then put the, and then however much money it would have cost to air it on the air show.
[35:28.770 --> 35:29.870]  That should be what you call it.
[35:29.950 --> 35:30.850]  That's what the show is worth.
[35:31.070 --> 35:31.230]  Yeah.
[35:31.970 --> 35:38.830]  I enjoyed that when you went to bars around the conference, sometimes cell phones didn't work so well in the bars.
[35:38.990 --> 35:40.010]  You know, I noticed that too.
[35:40.090 --> 35:42.450]  And there was always some wiseacre with a cigarette box nearby.
[35:43.170 --> 35:43.390]  Right.
[35:43.750 --> 35:44.590]  Know anything about that?
[35:45.010 --> 35:45.290]  Hmm.
[35:45.910 --> 35:48.350]  It's kind of strange because you can't smoke in bars in New York.
[35:48.450 --> 35:51.610]  You can't, but you can hold a box up and all of a sudden your cell phone stops working.
[35:53.410 --> 35:54.090]  Hey, Emmanuel.
[35:54.230 --> 35:56.290]  Yeah, Bernie, do you know something about how this might work?
[35:56.530 --> 35:57.830]  I experienced the same thing.
[35:57.950 --> 35:58.330]  I don't know.
[35:58.330 --> 36:03.910]  There was some magic cigarette box floating around that seemed to shut off any cell phone within line of sight.
[36:03.910 --> 36:07.630]  And we were all stunned by its demonstration.
[36:07.910 --> 36:12.970]  But I wanted to mention, we got a lot of really great mainstream media publicity about the HOOP conference.
[36:13.390 --> 36:16.050]  I didn't see really any negative articles at all.
[36:16.630 --> 36:22.430]  Some really pretty big news outlets like ABC News, Washington Post.
[36:22.430 --> 36:24.030]  I mean, there's some good stuff.
[36:24.370 --> 36:30.030]  There's one good story on ABC News written by PC Magazine's PJ Jakobwitz.
[36:30.890 --> 36:32.770]  I just want to read an excerpt of it for you.
[36:32.930 --> 36:42.290]  It says, I was lucky enough to get a few minutes with Hope's comedic MC Laszlo, whose credits include being the host of blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, all kinds of great things.
[36:42.990 --> 36:47.250]  And Laszlo says here, there's a big misconception about this conference, Laszlo said.
[36:47.530 --> 36:49.670]  It's not a bunch of kids trying to hack into the Pentagon.
[36:49.670 --> 36:52.410]  The goal of this conference is to share information.
[36:52.950 --> 36:59.690]  Curiosity is not a crime, and this is a great opportunity for people to learn about surveillance, security, and privacy from experts.
[36:59.930 --> 37:01.170]  And that really says it.
[37:01.670 --> 37:02.230]  Sure does.
[37:02.670 --> 37:05.050]  And Laszlo, I think you've been at every single conference, haven't you?
[37:05.670 --> 37:08.110]  I missed the very first one.
[37:08.270 --> 37:09.130]  Okay, all right.
[37:09.170 --> 37:11.630]  I went to Beyond Hope, which was at the Puck Building.
[37:12.150 --> 37:12.550]  Mm-hmm.
[37:13.210 --> 37:15.750]  And that was the only conference not to be at the Hotel Pennsylvania.
[37:16.490 --> 37:16.930]  Correct.
[37:17.490 --> 37:24.210]  So, now that was where I originally met Bernie, because I'd been reporting on his while he was in prison.
[37:25.030 --> 37:38.770]  Emmanuel was calling me and giving some sound bites and stuff, and I was putting it on my nationally syndicated radio feature, the Technophile, and trying to sort of raise some awareness, because the mainstream press was not paying attention to the case.
[37:38.770 --> 37:47.890]  But I was quite happy to see the mainstream press at this convention, and they would come up to me after I would introduce somebody, and they would have questions.
[37:48.010 --> 37:56.030]  And they weren't some of the stereotypical questions that Emmanuel's gotten and that all of us have gotten from the press in the past.
[37:56.510 --> 38:03.170]  I have to say, also, you mentioned that you've been at four of the six conferences, five of the six conferences, actually.
[38:03.950 --> 38:05.710]  And many of us have been there for all of them.
[38:06.090 --> 38:10.570]  Steve Rombaum, who just left, has been at all of them as well, well, except for this one, I guess, technically.
[38:11.530 --> 38:13.930]  Jello Biafra, now this is his fourth conference.
[38:14.190 --> 38:17.030]  It seems like we have a lot of traditions going here.
[38:17.290 --> 38:24.570]  But I have to say, of all the conferences that I've been involved with, which is all of them, this one really worked the most smoothly, I think.
[38:24.610 --> 38:36.170]  And I think we have a really good staff of people together, and we've gotten much better at this, but I also have to give a lot of credit to our attendees, because there was not a single incident with the hotel, at least not that the hotel is aware of,
[38:36.650 --> 38:48.010]  any kind of, you know, if you read about hacker gatherings, hacker conferences in other places, there's all kinds of trouble, people pulling fire alarms, and, you know, stupidity like that.
[38:48.150 --> 38:49.490]  And we had a really good crowd here.
[38:49.630 --> 38:56.810]  We had people who helped us, who added to the talks, to the presentations of various sorts.
[38:56.810 --> 39:01.170]  And, of course, we also have to give credit to the hotel, because, well, they're just, they're great to us.
[39:01.230 --> 39:01.690]  They really are.
[39:01.830 --> 39:04.210]  And we hope to be back there in a couple of years.
[39:05.490 --> 39:10.070]  I would highly recommend against touching the metal railing on the roof, though.
[39:10.650 --> 39:16.430]  Yeah, well, you shouldn't be on the roof in the first place, but, yeah, I think you touched something that gave you a shock or something like that.
[39:16.590 --> 39:20.330]  Yeah, I was standing in water and leaning over...
[39:21.090 --> 39:22.570]  You were standing in water?
[39:23.010 --> 39:31.570]  Well, the whole roof was covered with water, and it just rained, and there was a lightning storm, so, like, Bernie and everybody said, let's go up on the roof and hold metal things up in the air.
[39:32.950 --> 39:34.970]  That does sound like something Bernie would say.
[39:35.250 --> 39:45.390]  And so we went up there, and I touched the railing, and it was an FCC violation, the words that came out of my mouth.
[39:45.550 --> 39:46.170]  Oh, boy.
[39:46.530 --> 39:46.810]  Wow.
[39:46.890 --> 39:46.970]  Yeah.
[39:47.610 --> 39:56.250]  Well, yeah, now, you guys were working on the ham station, I believe, which we, by the way, we had permission from the hotel, so we weren't just wandering up there like a bunch of nerdy wells.
[39:56.710 --> 39:59.110]  So, do you guys want to tell us how that went?
[39:59.350 --> 40:00.750]  It actually went pretty smoothly.
[40:01.770 --> 40:05.090]  We had a friend of ours, Richard, bring a lot of ham radio equipment.
[40:05.210 --> 40:12.710]  He'd bring an HF vertical antenna and also a dipole, and we had a VHF, UHF, high-gain antenna that I brought.
[40:12.970 --> 40:15.690]  And all the equipment that we had there actually worked really well.
[40:15.810 --> 40:21.870]  We had a station set up on the 18th floor where anybody could come around and, you know, just play on the radio.
[40:21.870 --> 40:25.870]  We would explain what the hobby's all about, what the amateur radio service could be used for.
[40:26.730 --> 40:32.510]  Lynn got us a very nice special event call sign, N6H, so anybody who made a contact with us was able to get a QSL card.
[40:33.530 --> 40:34.130]  What else?
[40:34.210 --> 40:34.830]  Any other comments?
[40:34.830 --> 40:44.470]  Well, I guess the other thing, I understand that we brought from a testing session, 12 people got licenses, ham radio operators at the conference.
[40:44.730 --> 40:47.670]  We had a VE session down by registration on the last day of the conference.
[40:47.810 --> 40:57.950]  So anybody who was interested in the talk that we had Saturday about Hamager radio or was interested because they had gotten on the air at the station that we had, was able to actually, you know, take a couple of hours study for the exam.
[40:57.950 --> 41:04.390]  And then if they really wanted to pursue getting a license, just hop down to registration in the morning on Sunday and take the exam.
[41:04.730 --> 41:08.350]  Now, you say 12 people became hams as a result of this.
[41:08.450 --> 41:09.850]  Did anybody fail the test?
[41:10.130 --> 41:10.850]  People failed.
[41:10.950 --> 41:11.130]  Really?
[41:11.290 --> 41:12.870]  But a lot of people took it on a whim, too.
[41:12.970 --> 41:19.570]  They had absolutely no experience with the hobby at all or FCC regulations or, you know, radio theory.
[41:19.850 --> 41:21.150]  And, you know, they took it to see.
[41:21.150 --> 41:22.430]  And a lot of them did really well.
[41:22.550 --> 41:24.570]  A lot of them actually only missed by one or two questions.
[41:24.890 --> 41:28.390]  But we did get 12 new hams and we did have a couple of people fail.
[41:28.510 --> 41:33.810]  But now they have experience and now they can go find another VE session and be more prepared.
[41:34.250 --> 41:34.470]  Yeah.
[41:34.850 --> 41:40.950]  Generally, if you don't pass the first time, the follow-up exam is...
[41:40.950 --> 41:44.210]  The follow-up success rate is very, very, very high.
[41:44.390 --> 41:46.870]  So just taking it, spending the...
[41:46.870 --> 41:47.250]  What was it?
[41:47.310 --> 41:47.630]  $13?
[41:47.910 --> 41:49.070]  It was like $14 or something.
[41:49.070 --> 41:52.090]  And that's just a fee to cover the materials and get in there and all that other stuff.
[41:52.250 --> 41:58.770]  So after that, generally, the next time they know what to expect a little bit more and then they pass.
[41:59.310 --> 42:00.210]  So it's worth noting.
[42:00.470 --> 42:01.710]  You're one of those people that failed.
[42:02.370 --> 42:04.910]  You can stop blubbering now and start studying for the next one.
[42:04.910 --> 42:05.410]  You'll pass.
[42:05.550 --> 42:05.870]  Yes, Bernie?
[42:06.630 --> 42:16.390]  Yeah, I just wanted to mention that we made a bunch of contacts from the station, N6H, from the 22nd floor of the Hotel Pennsylvania where the antennas were.
[42:16.450 --> 42:18.370]  We had an amazing line of sight to the horizon.
[42:18.370 --> 42:26.010]  And we made contacts with other amateur radio stations in different parts of the world, Mexico, Canada, around the United States.
[42:26.010 --> 42:29.610]  It was really an amazing thing to have these contacts made.
[42:29.730 --> 42:36.170]  And these people will be proud to have a limited edition N6H QSL card with some really snazzy graphics.
[42:36.670 --> 42:41.150]  And a few people at the station brought their ham radios and were talking to us and they got QSL cards too.
[42:41.270 --> 42:42.910]  So a good time was had by all.
[42:42.910 --> 42:47.770]  And this is yet another thing that we did for the first time at the conference that I think worked out really well.
[42:47.810 --> 42:48.570]  Did we mention the hammocks?
[42:48.630 --> 42:49.570]  The hammocks were a big hit?
[42:49.670 --> 42:51.550]  We had hammocks down on two.
[42:51.750 --> 42:54.730]  Yeah, now we got a bunch of hammocks down in the 2600 van.
[42:54.750 --> 42:55.250]  My God.
[42:56.370 --> 42:56.950]  I don't know.
[42:57.030 --> 42:58.690]  Are we supposed to hold on to those for the next time?
[42:58.950 --> 42:59.270]  Yes.
[42:59.410 --> 43:00.130]  A million polls.
[43:00.190 --> 43:01.270]  I don't know where they go.
[43:02.390 --> 43:04.090]  They'd stay in the box till the next conference.
[43:04.110 --> 43:05.010]  There is no box.
[43:05.090 --> 43:05.650]  That's the problem.
[43:05.770 --> 43:06.370]  There's no box.
[43:06.530 --> 43:07.190]  There's no box.
[43:07.550 --> 43:09.490]  Somebody's bright idea was to put them all in one box.
[43:09.550 --> 43:10.590]  And of course, that didn't last.
[43:11.310 --> 43:12.750]  We'll talk about that after the show.
[43:13.390 --> 43:13.830]  But...
[43:13.830 --> 43:14.890]  The box exploded.
[43:15.110 --> 43:15.670]  Yes, Bernie.
[43:16.010 --> 43:17.070]  Those hammocks were...
[43:17.070 --> 43:33.750]  The hammocks were all set up in the movie area where there was a big screen where you could either watch streamed programming from the 18th floor panel discussions or some really entertaining films from, like, the Lost Film Festival or other amazing hacker films from yesteryear.
[43:33.850 --> 43:41.050]  And it was sort of like the best features of a drive-in movie theater and a really comfy movie theater.
[43:41.090 --> 43:46.610]  You could actually recline in hammocks, a whole bunch of hammocks, while watching movies.
[43:46.830 --> 43:57.370]  And hammocks had power and Ethernet wired to all of them, so you could hook up your laptop and surf the web or hack or whatever while you're watching these movies.
[43:57.370 --> 43:58.250]  It was perfect.
[43:59.270 --> 43:59.830]  It was.
[43:59.950 --> 44:00.370]  It really was.
[44:01.230 --> 44:02.690]  And we will do that again.
[44:02.710 --> 44:04.350]  Of course, that was Rob's idea.
[44:04.570 --> 44:06.550]  That came from What The Hack.
[44:06.690 --> 44:08.090]  We had the hammocks outside there.
[44:08.530 --> 44:12.450]  I think it was a lot more precariously set up in Holland because...
[44:12.450 --> 44:14.250]  We couldn't quite do what he did in Holland.
[44:14.250 --> 44:15.830]  I don't think we wanted to do what he did there.
[44:15.890 --> 44:17.770]  I wanted to, but Rob got lazy.
[44:17.890 --> 44:21.070]  Well, it fell down a couple of times with, like, six people at once.
[44:21.170 --> 44:23.570]  And we didn't want that kind of thing to be happening inside the hotel.
[44:23.710 --> 44:25.310]  Well, we should explain what you're talking about.
[44:25.310 --> 44:29.690]  He had actually welded a whole contraption for holding these hammocks.
[44:29.850 --> 44:30.190]  A hammock tower.
[44:30.190 --> 44:31.270]  It was really cool.
[44:31.390 --> 44:34.050]  It was, but it was scary when the thing started to tilt and fall.
[44:34.750 --> 44:36.350]  But this was not as scary.
[44:36.510 --> 44:37.030]  It was made for...
[44:37.030 --> 44:38.030]  People are no fun.
[44:38.030 --> 44:39.170]  It's made for Americans, you know.
[44:39.170 --> 44:42.870]  You know, that's not to say that I didn't see a few people fall out of those hammocks.
[44:44.010 --> 44:46.130]  Well, a couple of people are larger than they should have been.
[44:46.290 --> 44:46.910]  Or not...
[44:47.430 --> 44:49.810]  As large as they were, larger than they should have been to get into a hammock.
[44:49.810 --> 44:53.890]  No, my favorite was when they would sit down and kind of flip over the back and it was...
[44:53.890 --> 44:54.970]  Oh, I did that once.
[44:55.030 --> 44:55.790]  But I did that intentionally.
[44:55.910 --> 44:56.430]  That was fun.
[44:56.570 --> 44:57.650]  You sort of flip over backwards.
[44:57.990 --> 44:58.170]  No.
[44:58.570 --> 44:59.250]  Intentionally, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[44:59.270 --> 45:00.370]  Yeah, it really was cool.
[45:00.710 --> 45:11.230]  The other cool thing is that we're going to have audio up almost immediately as soon as we go through all the DVDs that have already been made, which is much faster than we've ever done it before.
[45:11.250 --> 45:12.410]  So we're very happy about that.
[45:12.410 --> 45:18.610]  That was another excellent feature that was very popular is that right after the talk, only an hour or two after each talk, right?
[45:18.790 --> 45:19.670]  That's probably accurate.
[45:19.990 --> 45:22.330]  You were able to buy a DVD of the talk you just watched.
[45:22.430 --> 45:31.670]  So if you were only there for a couple of hours and you saw something that you really liked, you could buy it literally an hour or two after the talk was over and have it on DVD ready to walk home.
[45:31.830 --> 45:32.170]  That's right.
[45:32.230 --> 45:35.590]  And we used a credit card machine for the first time at the 2600 table.
[45:36.070 --> 45:40.650]  And yeah, we didn't get a lot of the wisecracks we thought we'd get about, you know, hey, a hacker using a credit card machine.
[45:40.650 --> 45:43.750]  Now, people actually used it and it worked.
[45:43.950 --> 45:44.810]  Little till they know.
[45:45.110 --> 45:45.370]  Yeah.
[45:45.610 --> 45:47.450]  See, this is exactly the kind of thing I'm talking about.
[45:48.230 --> 45:53.270]  We had a wireless connection that I believe is secure, but if it's not, you know, we'll let you know.
[45:53.630 --> 45:54.530]  But no, it...
[45:54.530 --> 45:58.110]  And even if it isn't, you know, you're not responsible for any charges that you didn't authorize.
[45:58.110 --> 45:58.830]  That's absolutely true.
[45:58.930 --> 45:59.590]  That's absolutely true.
[45:59.750 --> 46:01.130]  But it...
[46:01.130 --> 46:06.890]  I think it gave people more freedom to get things without carrying a wad of cash around with them.
[46:07.170 --> 46:08.690]  And there were so many more things to get.
[46:08.690 --> 46:11.210]  So it was cool from all angles.
[46:11.990 --> 46:27.250]  We've opened up a new email address for those of you at the conference who would like to post your thoughts, send us pictures, or whatever it is that you want to go on the Post Hope website, which will be going up pretty soon, I imagine.
[46:28.590 --> 46:30.930]  Feedback at 2600.com.
[46:31.030 --> 46:31.350]  That's right.
[46:31.450 --> 46:32.950]  Feedback at 2600.com.
[46:32.950 --> 46:41.710]  Send us any stories that happen to you, any impressions, any comments that you'd like to pass on, negative, positive, whatever.
[46:41.990 --> 46:45.770]  Pictures, movies, diagrams, you name it.
[46:45.830 --> 46:49.530]  Just send it on in feedback at 2600.com and we'll get it up there.
[46:49.730 --> 46:55.210]  For anyone that uses Flickr, we've established a tag for Hope and it's Hope number six.
[46:55.790 --> 46:56.810]  All spelled out.
[46:58.010 --> 47:01.830]  And there's actually, like, when I checked, there was like 700-something pictures.
[47:01.830 --> 47:04.190]  So if you want to put your pictures on Flickr, you can do that.
[47:04.450 --> 47:04.670]  Yeah.
[47:04.810 --> 47:09.530]  And we'll, I guess, have them all locally, too, so that if Flickr ever goes down someday, we'll still have them here.
[47:10.290 --> 47:11.410]  Are we going to mirror all that?
[47:11.470 --> 47:11.830]  That's crazy.
[47:11.870 --> 47:12.290]  Why not?
[47:12.370 --> 47:12.730]  Why not?
[47:13.350 --> 47:14.490]  It's all hard disk space.
[47:14.530 --> 47:16.470]  That's what everything boils down to these days.
[47:17.090 --> 47:21.070]  Okay, before we open up the phone lines, 212-209-2900 for the few minutes we have left.
[47:21.070 --> 47:23.390]  Any final comments from inside?
[47:24.550 --> 47:28.390]  I hope we made some people jealous that, you know, who couldn't come.
[47:28.870 --> 47:28.910]  Jealous?
[47:29.530 --> 47:30.750]  Well, yeah, you know...
[47:30.750 --> 47:34.250]  That's not what we're shooting for, jealousy and rage and hatred and all that.
[47:35.290 --> 47:38.990]  We want people, you know, we want more people to be able to experience this sort of thing.
[47:39.050 --> 47:40.050]  And so in two years...
[47:40.050 --> 47:42.910]  I mean, a lot of people couldn't make it and they're, you know, perfectly good people.
[47:42.930 --> 47:43.390]  Okay, we don't...
[47:43.810 --> 47:44.630]  Circumstances got in the way.
[47:44.630 --> 47:49.430]  We don't want those people to feel jealous and we want to make available the material so that they can see what they missed.
[47:49.530 --> 47:49.830]  That's right.
[47:49.830 --> 47:59.510]  But we do want people to be able to experience this sort of thing in person and realize that it's really a nice place to be and lots of cool people to meet and lots of fun projects to see.
[47:59.770 --> 48:01.130]  We better see you in 2008.
[48:01.310 --> 48:08.090]  I hope that for the people who came, that they came away from the conference with learning or experiencing something new.
[48:08.790 --> 48:13.770]  I mean, I know there's plenty of things I went to that I'd never had any idea about.
[48:14.630 --> 48:14.950]  Yeah.
[48:14.990 --> 48:23.410]  My favorite probably for them all was Guedes gave a talk called Hack the Palate, which was about food hacking, which was...
[48:23.410 --> 48:23.670]  Food hacking.
[48:23.670 --> 48:24.350]  I love food.
[48:24.530 --> 48:28.490]  So food hacking is, you know, a great topic in my opinion.
[48:28.690 --> 48:28.970]  Absolutely.
[48:29.290 --> 48:30.630]  Oh, and a couple other things that we had.
[48:30.790 --> 48:31.770]  The Geek Comedy Tour.
[48:32.210 --> 48:32.570]  That...
[48:32.570 --> 48:34.310]  You know, some of those people were really, really funny.
[48:34.470 --> 48:34.650]  Yeah.
[48:34.810 --> 48:35.910]  I wish I'd seen it.
[48:36.370 --> 48:37.090]  But it's...
[48:37.090 --> 48:40.950]  For anybody who does computer support and that sort of thing, I mean, some of them hit it right on the head.
[48:40.950 --> 48:43.370]  The LED throwies that were everywhere.
[48:43.610 --> 48:44.330]  Those are very popular.
[48:44.750 --> 48:44.830]  Yeah.
[48:45.490 --> 48:45.950]  Okay.
[48:45.990 --> 48:47.110]  Who wants to describe this very quickly?
[48:47.170 --> 48:47.830]  I'm going to take some phone calls.
[48:47.910 --> 48:50.810]  It's a battery for, what, a hearing aid or something?
[48:50.850 --> 48:54.570]  It's just a standard button cell lithium battery that you take an LED...
[48:54.570 --> 48:59.630]  And you glue them together or use tape or little magnets.
[48:59.630 --> 49:09.010]  And if you put magnets on it, they become throwies because when you throw them, they hang on to anything metallic, like ducts 30 feet above the floor of the second floor.
[49:09.130 --> 49:09.810]  Which we got down.
[49:09.810 --> 49:10.650]  We got them all down.
[49:10.770 --> 49:11.030]  Yeah.
[49:11.390 --> 49:11.850]  I know.
[49:11.930 --> 49:12.350]  It was up there.
[49:12.450 --> 49:14.290]  We found out who threw them up there.
[49:14.630 --> 49:15.530]  I saw somebody.
[49:15.730 --> 49:15.890]  Somebody posted.
[49:15.890 --> 49:18.010]  The Washington Post threw it up there.
[49:18.090 --> 49:19.990]  The Washington Post reporter threw those up there.
[49:20.110 --> 49:20.290]  Yes.
[49:20.850 --> 49:22.210]  I always told you they were trouble.
[49:22.350 --> 49:22.590]  Yes.
[49:22.730 --> 49:23.350]  They're trying to kill us.
[49:23.490 --> 49:23.890]  All right.
[49:23.890 --> 49:26.330]  Well, I'm glad we got those because there was a bit of a panic.
[49:26.470 --> 49:27.470]  We had to order those from China.
[49:27.630 --> 49:31.750]  And we had to order them two days before the conference because there was a bit of a miscommunication there.
[49:31.910 --> 49:34.870]  But they arrived and they were a big hit and everybody had a lot of fun with those.
[49:35.370 --> 49:36.810]  This is something I didn't know.
[49:36.810 --> 49:41.990]  So, that it's actually cheaper to air freight something from China than to store it in a warehouse in the United States.
[49:42.050 --> 49:43.070]  We learned a lot this year.
[49:43.230 --> 49:44.190]  Okay, let's take some phone calls.
[49:44.550 --> 49:45.890]  Good evening, you're on the air.
[49:46.170 --> 49:47.410]  Oh, no, I was too late on that one.
[49:47.470 --> 49:48.470]  Let's go over here.
[49:48.950 --> 49:50.170]  Good evening, you're on the air.
[49:51.490 --> 49:52.050]  Go ahead.
[49:52.290 --> 49:52.630]  Hi.
[49:53.010 --> 49:53.710]  What's on your mind?
[49:54.370 --> 49:55.790]  I've got two questions.
[49:56.070 --> 49:56.330]  Go ahead.
[49:56.950 --> 49:59.230]  One of them is...
[49:59.990 --> 50:01.850]  Now turn down your radio, you're going to get confused.
[50:01.850 --> 50:02.830]  Okay.
[50:03.530 --> 50:14.330]  One of them is whether when you were talking about getting a voting machine next time, did you mean next week or next month or next election?
[50:14.530 --> 50:25.590]  Well, I meant next conference in two years, but certainly I think we all want to do something with an electronic voting machine, something clean, not obscene, with a voting machine in the next...
[50:25.590 --> 50:34.690]  However soon we can get our hands on one, so we can demonstrate how secure or insecure these things actually are, and experiment with them, and figure out what the weak points are.
[50:34.890 --> 50:43.690]  It's one of those things that a lot of people have questions about, and unfortunately, they're not a very easy device to get your hands on, so not a lot of experimentation has been done.
[50:43.750 --> 50:44.810]  And there are three times that you have to worry about.
[50:46.550 --> 51:02.770]  Also, my other question was whether you had any comments on the ruling about the AT&T, the suit against AT&T for maybe disclosing information illegally being tossed out.
[51:03.370 --> 51:04.990]  Well, I mean, normally we would.
[51:05.090 --> 51:10.090]  Normally this is something we'd be talking about, but this is our hope show, and we wanted to focus on the conference for now.
[51:10.090 --> 51:16.070]  But certainly we'll be focusing time on that in weeks ahead, so we'll definitely get to that.
[51:16.190 --> 51:17.250]  Thanks for your call.
[51:17.310 --> 51:18.370]  Let's take another one up here.
[51:19.190 --> 51:19.750]  Good evening.
[51:19.910 --> 51:20.450]  You're on the air.
[51:21.190 --> 51:22.770]  Boy, I've just got to move faster, don't I?
[51:22.850 --> 51:23.150]  Good evening.
[51:23.270 --> 51:23.750]  You're on the air.
[51:24.810 --> 51:25.410]  Go ahead.
[51:26.130 --> 51:26.770]  Hi, Emmanuel.
[51:26.890 --> 51:27.330]  It's Junts.
[51:27.590 --> 51:28.430]  Junts, how are you?
[51:28.830 --> 51:29.310]  Good, how are you?
[51:29.530 --> 51:30.250]  Pretty good, pretty good.
[51:30.250 --> 51:32.090]  Did you recover from this past weekend?
[51:32.490 --> 51:33.490]  Yes, I'm all rested.
[51:34.670 --> 51:38.650]  Odds are, if you came to the conference and went through registration, you saw Junts.
[51:39.570 --> 51:46.250]  Yes, I got to sit down with a bunch of other people I could have done without, you know, all the help I had.
[51:47.310 --> 51:50.490]  I actually got to see more of the conference this time than I have in years past.
[51:50.790 --> 51:51.470]  Well, that's great.
[51:51.610 --> 51:51.890]  That's great.
[51:51.950 --> 51:52.890]  Yeah, I was happy about that.
[51:52.990 --> 51:53.550]  It's a lot of fun.
[51:53.790 --> 51:53.990]  Yeah.
[51:54.110 --> 51:56.810]  How do you think it went this year compared to previous years?
[51:57.390 --> 52:00.310]  I think this year was the smoothest year it's ever gone.
[52:00.530 --> 52:05.730]  We had fewer headaches and hassles, and everyone seemed to have a good time.
[52:06.830 --> 52:09.030]  So, yeah, I think so far this has been our best.
[52:09.390 --> 52:25.970]  I got to give a lot of credit to our security team, Big Frank and Kush and a whole bunch of other people, Warlord, everyone out there who really spent what seemed like forever awake and just watching over things, making sure that we were safe, that there were no incidents,
[52:25.990 --> 52:26.670]  and there weren't any.
[52:26.810 --> 52:27.250]  There weren't any.
[52:27.390 --> 52:32.230]  It was one of the smoothest running events, not only hacker events, smoothest running events I have ever seen.
[52:32.950 --> 52:34.450]  So, big thanks to those guys.
[52:34.770 --> 52:35.510]  We couldn't have done it without you.
[52:36.370 --> 52:36.850]  Yeah, you're right.
[52:38.290 --> 52:38.610]  Okay.
[52:38.610 --> 52:40.330]  I guess we'll be seeing you later.
[52:40.490 --> 52:41.410]  And any other comments?
[52:42.650 --> 52:43.610]  No, I think that's it.
[52:43.710 --> 52:48.410]  Just like I said, I wanted to say thanks to everyone who helped out, and it made things a lot easier for all of us.
[52:48.850 --> 52:49.170]  Definitely.
[52:49.390 --> 52:49.590]  Definitely.
[52:50.170 --> 52:50.570]  All right.
[52:50.630 --> 52:51.090]  Thanks, gents.
[52:51.410 --> 52:51.750]  Sure, thanks.
[52:52.190 --> 52:53.330]  And we'll be in touch.
[52:53.330 --> 52:54.530]  Let's take another phone call.
[52:54.650 --> 52:55.090]  Let's go over here.
[52:55.170 --> 52:55.430]  Good evening.
[52:55.510 --> 52:55.990]  You're on the air.
[52:57.630 --> 52:58.130]  Go ahead.
[52:58.870 --> 52:59.610]  Hi, Emmanuel.
[52:59.790 --> 53:00.410]  Yeah, speak up, please.
[53:00.410 --> 53:00.630]  Hi.
[53:00.950 --> 53:02.190]  This is John from Philadelphia.
[53:03.090 --> 53:05.090]  I missed out on the Hope Conference.
[53:05.250 --> 53:11.970]  I was there for the Fifth Hope Conference, and I'm hoping that the videos, the VCDs, will be available for Hope 6.
[53:12.150 --> 53:13.050]  Well, DVDs, actually.
[53:13.170 --> 53:16.590]  But yes, they will be available fairly soon, a lot sooner than in the past.
[53:17.050 --> 53:17.310]  Okay.
[53:17.430 --> 53:20.350]  That'll be great, because I had a family member who was sick, and I couldn't come.
[53:20.690 --> 53:23.210]  So I'm looking forward to the videos and everything.
[53:23.430 --> 53:25.730]  And the audio will be up online very soon.
[53:26.070 --> 53:26.770]  Okay, Emmanuel.
[53:26.910 --> 53:27.470]  Thank you very much.
[53:27.570 --> 53:27.770]  All right.
[53:27.810 --> 53:28.110]  Take care.
[53:28.110 --> 53:30.150]  Hopefully, we'll see you next time.
[53:30.370 --> 53:34.270]  Oh, the other thing, the movie Urchin made its sort of debut.
[53:34.410 --> 53:36.470]  It's not completely finished, but it was a sneak preview.
[53:36.770 --> 53:46.090]  That's the movie that I'm in, and Fiber Optic, and Bill from Arnock, and a couple of other people from the hacker world make guest appearances.
[53:46.090 --> 53:52.790]  And it's a really interesting film about New York City and a place called Scum City, which lies below.
[53:54.050 --> 53:56.530]  It'll give you nightmares, and look for it to come out soon.
[53:56.710 --> 53:58.510]  Filmed by John Harleker called Urchin.
[53:58.990 --> 54:00.010]  You saw it, didn't you, Urchin?
[54:00.170 --> 54:00.350]  Yeah.
[54:00.490 --> 54:02.590]  And I was actually thinking about it the other day.
[54:02.830 --> 54:05.890]  It's like, you know, it's like a no-budget movie, but it makes you kind of think.
[54:05.990 --> 54:06.890]  And you got killed.
[54:07.310 --> 54:08.390]  I got killed good, yeah.
[54:08.650 --> 54:19.290]  In fact, I got killed in the bathroom, and I wound up firing a gun in the bathroom as I was falling down, you know, it was a fake gun, but still, it was loud, and you have these things in your ear to protect your ears, but it was still so loud.
[54:19.510 --> 54:24.250]  And I actually hurt myself falling down, too, and I drew blood, and people are very impressed by that.
[54:24.470 --> 54:33.510]  When you're in an acting gig and you draw blood, that's like a sign of, I don't know, that you really get into the role, and I'm glad that happened.
[54:33.770 --> 54:36.870]  Well, I'm not glad that happened, but I'm glad that I participated in it.
[54:37.550 --> 54:42.030]  So yeah, Urchin, that's going to be fun when it comes out, and you will have nightmares.
[54:42.490 --> 54:42.930]  Most definitely.
[54:43.450 --> 54:52.230]  I was going to say, a lot of people got thanked, and we don't need to leave the network folks out, because that was great.
[54:52.810 --> 54:53.130]  Absolutely.
[54:53.370 --> 54:55.710]  I mean, we had some glitches, but it was still great.
[54:55.790 --> 54:56.810]  But we always have glitches.
[54:57.010 --> 55:02.410]  Glitches are never going to go away, but it's how we handle the glitches, and I think the glitches were handled just great.
[55:02.490 --> 55:04.750]  I mean, I didn't hear any complaints from any attendees.
[55:05.290 --> 55:11.530]  Oh yeah, you know, we're complaining all the time, because we know how things are supposed to be, and we know that this isn't quite doing what it's supposed to be.
[55:11.530 --> 55:22.070]  But I saw people on the hammocks, hanging out, watching talks or watching videos, relaxing and being online through the wireless network, and it all worked.
[55:22.070 --> 55:27.390]  I saw people at talks upstairs on the 18th floor, and they were on the network.
[55:27.590 --> 55:29.110]  And we'd never done that before.
[55:29.210 --> 55:34.430]  We'd never quite gotten to that stage where it just worked fairly seamlessly throughout the entire space.
[55:34.650 --> 55:36.030]  So yeah, great credit to them.
[55:36.030 --> 55:41.330]  And also, of course, the AV people for doing the impossible time after time, and setting all this up.
[55:41.690 --> 55:43.830]  Oh, and the most amazing thing, teardown.
[55:44.230 --> 55:44.710]  Teardown.
[55:45.010 --> 55:45.390]  This is...
[55:45.390 --> 55:52.690]  That always amazes me the most out of any other aspect of the conference is how quickly everything was out of 18.
[55:52.870 --> 55:53.570]  I mean, that was...
[55:53.570 --> 55:58.610]  What happens is you come to the end of a conference, and normally what goes on is people leave.
[55:58.810 --> 56:02.150]  People just take off, and you've got to break it all down.
[56:02.250 --> 56:06.350]  You've got to put everything back in the boxes, and it takes hours and hours and hours.
[56:06.650 --> 56:09.770]  And in past conferences, we haven't been able to finish it.
[56:09.810 --> 56:13.490]  We just didn't have enough people, and the company had to come and finish it for us, and they charge.
[56:13.510 --> 56:14.910]  They charge a couple thousand dollars to do that.
[56:15.330 --> 56:24.050]  And all we said was at the closing ceremonies, hey, if you guys help us out, please stick around for a little while, help us out, and we'll give you a free volunteer t-shirt.
[56:24.850 --> 56:26.330]  And so many people stuck around.
[56:26.450 --> 56:28.970]  I think in a half hour, most of it was done.
[56:29.130 --> 56:32.650]  And Chris, our AV guy, said to me, you know, this just does not happen.
[56:32.810 --> 56:33.930]  This is not possible.
[56:34.130 --> 56:35.690]  And I just witnessed it.
[56:35.870 --> 56:44.210]  I mean, we got a tour of the space before our conference, and there was some big fancy conference that had been using the space before we were.
[56:44.290 --> 56:45.990]  And this was days after their conference.
[56:45.990 --> 56:58.110]  And they had probably a dozen paid staff tearing the place down, and they were still working days and days after, and they didn't look to be done anytime soon.
[56:58.110 --> 57:01.970]  And we did it with an all-volunteer force in the matter of, I don't know, an hour.
[57:02.350 --> 57:02.930]  Yeah, yeah.
[57:03.210 --> 57:09.810]  I have to say, you know, I've aspired to the Dutch, you know, the Dutch way of doing things where people just make the impossible happen.
[57:10.010 --> 57:13.290]  And I think this is the first time I can actually say that I think we're there.
[57:13.290 --> 57:17.610]  I think we've gotten to the point where we actually can do something on that level.
[57:17.830 --> 57:28.490]  And we have so many good volunteers, so many people that know what they're doing, and so many people that just are completely selfless with their time and energy and skills and abilities.
[57:29.090 --> 57:31.650]  So it's a real privilege to be a part of that.
[57:31.730 --> 57:33.510]  And I'm just happy it all turned out.
[57:33.690 --> 57:36.350]  I'm happy that this weekend was a success.
[57:37.130 --> 57:41.510]  And if you weren't there, we'll try to share it with you as best we can in the weeks, months, years ahead.
[57:41.610 --> 57:45.550]  And we hope to see you at the next one in two years, which I assume it'll be two years.
[57:45.690 --> 57:46.350]  We don't know yet.
[57:46.430 --> 57:48.490]  We don't know yet if we lost our shirts on this, usually.
[57:48.950 --> 57:52.590]  We don't know the financials until a couple of weeks afterwards.
[57:52.830 --> 57:53.670]  But you know what?
[57:53.790 --> 57:54.370]  It's not...
[57:54.370 --> 57:55.910]  Let's not even focus on that right now.
[57:55.930 --> 57:59.250]  Let's focus on the fact that it happened and it was great and we all had fun.
[58:00.250 --> 58:01.970]  And we're going to do it again one way or the other.
[58:02.490 --> 58:02.870]  All right.
[58:02.950 --> 58:04.130]  Thanks, guys, for coming in.
[58:04.130 --> 58:07.270]  We'll be back again next week with another exciting show.
[58:07.510 --> 58:13.090]  Until then, stay free and stay tuned for the Personal Computer Show.
[58:15.050 --> 58:20.450]  From what I see, there's still a little hope
[58:23.730 --> 58:28.050]  That's if we don't hang from too much rock
[58:32.460 --> 58:47.620]  Oh, dear A local boy from the housing estate High on hope and dreaming of his game Knows he's on his own Got to get out before he gets too late
[58:51.260 --> 59:11.380]  He's looking good, the best I see for days He's telling people how he's changed his way He's given up on drinking and he's down the free smoke sometimes From what I see, there's still a little hope
[59:14.680 --> 59:34.870]  That's if we don't hang from too much rock From what I see, there's still a little hope From what I see, there's still a little hope That's if we don't hang from too much rock
[59:54.110 --> 01:00:01.850]  Hey, Tommy, how you're feeling up there You're looking good with a cold screw hair Woo!
[01:00:02.470 --> 01:00:10.030]  Hey, cat You're listening to WBAI
[01:00:13.710 --> 01:00:27.150]  Oh, hey Uh-huh Hey, you're listening to WBAI New York 99.5 FM It is July 26, 2006