[00:00.000 --> 00:08.120] There'll be public hearings on the No Child Left Behind Act throughout September, and the Education Committee will try to have a vote on the bill by the end of the month. [00:08.280 --> 00:11.840] For Free Speech Radio News in Washington, D.C., I'm Karen Miller. [00:15.180 --> 00:17.640] You've been listening to Free Speech Radio News. [00:17.840 --> 00:29.480] For Monica Lopez, Taina Giese, Shannon Young, Leanne Caldwell, Eric Klein, Antonio Ortiz, and Puck Lowe, I'm Laura Bogado at Pacifica Station KPFK in L.A. [00:32.320 --> 00:35.780] And it's 7 o'clock on radio station WBAI New York. [00:35.940 --> 00:37.360] Time, then, for Off the Hook. [01:42.150 --> 01:43.970] And the program is Off the Hook. [01:44.170 --> 01:44.610] I'm Mike. [01:44.610 --> 01:46.610] I'm joined here in the studio by Jim. [01:46.790 --> 01:47.190] Hello. [01:47.190 --> 01:48.430] By Not Kevin. [01:48.650 --> 01:49.010] Hello. [01:49.350 --> 01:50.150] And by Redbird. [01:50.330 --> 01:50.710] Good evening. [01:51.010 --> 01:52.710] On the phone, we have Bernie S. [01:52.850 --> 01:53.390] from Philadelphia. [01:55.330 --> 01:55.850] Hello? [01:56.510 --> 01:57.670] Bernie S., are you there? [01:57.990 --> 01:58.770] I am here. [01:58.950 --> 01:59.230] Okay. [01:59.230 --> 01:59.930] Greetings from Philadelphia. [02:00.410 --> 02:02.770] And we have Emmanuel, who will tell us where he is. [02:03.430 --> 02:08.570] I'm coming to you live where the sun is coming up in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia. [02:09.790 --> 02:10.310] Wow. [02:10.770 --> 02:11.850] So what are you doing there? [02:13.070 --> 02:13.970] You're surprised, eh? [02:14.270 --> 02:14.790] I'm surprised. [02:15.070 --> 02:19.970] Well, basically, I'm sorry, there might be a slight delay on this phone line, so I'm sorry if I step on you or anybody else. [02:20.130 --> 02:24.290] I was just going to say, I'm surprised that you mentioned the sun coming up, which is not something you normally do. [02:24.290 --> 02:30.510] Well, it's 7 o'clock in the damn morning here, not 7 in the evening. [02:30.830 --> 02:33.070] So, yeah, I had to get up pretty early for this show. [02:33.870 --> 02:41.050] But that suits me because I'm here at a conference in Kuala Lumpur called The Hack in the Box. [02:41.210 --> 02:42.030] Actually, you know what? [02:42.570 --> 02:47.430] We have a few people here from the United States, and I'm going to actually do a first here. [02:47.510 --> 02:51.650] I'm going to use this hotel phone to three-way to somebody else in a different room. [02:51.650 --> 02:53.050] Let's just hope this works. [02:53.270 --> 02:54.110] Can you hold on a second? [02:54.410 --> 02:54.770] Okay. [02:55.350 --> 02:56.190] Hold on one second. [02:56.670 --> 02:58.310] I wonder what we're going to hear. [03:00.550 --> 03:01.490] Are you still there? [03:01.590 --> 03:02.150] I'm still here. [03:02.470 --> 03:02.690] All right. [03:02.870 --> 03:03.750] You might hear the phone ringing. [03:04.050 --> 03:04.830] That we hear. [03:11.800 --> 03:13.420] Is someone supposed to pick up? [03:13.600 --> 03:14.340] I hope so. [03:15.320 --> 03:16.880] It's 7 in the morning, you know. [03:17.440 --> 03:18.100] Room service. [03:18.280 --> 03:18.720] Okay. [03:19.340 --> 03:25.380] That is the voice of Phiber Optik, who some of you may remember as being on the radio program years ago. [03:25.380 --> 03:27.340] Do you guys all know each other in the studio? [03:28.900 --> 03:30.960] We know each other in the studio. [03:30.960 --> 03:31.840] We also know Phiber. [03:32.700 --> 03:32.940] Yeah. [03:32.980 --> 03:34.260] Phiber, you recognize that voice, right? [03:34.980 --> 03:36.080] Are they in my room? [03:36.360 --> 03:37.080] No, no, no. [03:37.480 --> 03:38.480] The lights are out. [03:38.560 --> 03:39.240] I can't tell. [03:39.400 --> 03:39.580] Okay. [03:39.680 --> 03:39.880] No. [03:40.080 --> 03:41.480] Phiber, I just probably woke you up. [03:41.500 --> 03:41.840] I'm sorry. [03:41.920 --> 03:42.640] I should have called you earlier. [03:42.880 --> 03:44.020] I was having the strangest dream. [03:44.160 --> 03:44.780] I was in Malaysia. [03:45.260 --> 03:46.340] Everyone was very nice. [03:46.400 --> 03:47.320] You are in Malaysia. [03:47.500 --> 03:58.660] And in fact, we're supposed to, just so people know, Phiber and I are each giving a keynote address tomorrow, which is Thursday, here in Kuala Lumpur at this conference. [03:59.680 --> 04:01.680] It's already Thursday there, right? [04:02.000 --> 04:03.240] No, it's Wednesday, Mike. [04:04.120 --> 04:04.840] Sorry to break it. [04:04.900 --> 04:06.740] We're on the air Wednesday night, so it's Wednesday. [04:07.260 --> 04:07.560] All right. [04:07.760 --> 04:08.020] Fine. [04:08.740 --> 04:09.400] But in Malaysia... [04:09.400 --> 04:09.700] Whatever. [04:09.980 --> 04:10.360] Go ahead. [04:10.940 --> 04:12.160] This is the world of tomorrow. [04:12.380 --> 04:13.340] But no, go ahead, Mike. [04:13.340 --> 04:13.540] Finish. [04:13.680 --> 04:14.500] What are we going to say? [04:14.560 --> 04:15.180] In Malaysia, what? [04:15.180 --> 04:18.820] I was going to argue that in Malaysia, it's already Thursday, but... [04:18.820 --> 04:19.100] All right. [04:19.160 --> 04:24.740] This is why I'm happy that somebody like Jim is in the studio, because Jim has appeared on the show, Jeopardy! [04:24.760 --> 04:26.480] He knows everything that there is to know. [04:26.880 --> 04:27.160] No, I don't. [04:27.160 --> 04:28.960] Jim, will you please straighten Mike out on this? [04:29.440 --> 04:32.740] I'm trying to figure out what day it is there, and I'm having a little difficulty. [04:33.260 --> 04:33.480] Okay. [04:33.680 --> 04:34.900] I know that it's... [04:34.900 --> 04:38.940] In England, it's later by five hours. [04:39.120 --> 04:39.560] They've already... [04:39.560 --> 04:46.080] Let me just cut you off here at the chase, because when we flew over here, we flew through Stockholm, Sweden, okay? [04:46.320 --> 04:46.520] That's nice. [04:46.520 --> 04:52.440] We took the airplane, we went over the Atlantic Ocean, and we stopped for some reason in Stockholm, and then continued on to Kuala Lumpur. [04:52.600 --> 04:55.960] We did not, at any point in time, cross the international dateline. [04:56.120 --> 04:57.600] Therefore, the date did not change. [04:58.220 --> 04:59.640] Right, but you say it's morning. [05:00.120 --> 05:00.880] Yeah, it's morning. [05:01.340 --> 05:01.560] Okay. [05:02.080 --> 05:05.600] The international dateline is to your east, correct? [05:07.500 --> 05:08.080] Yeah, my east. [05:08.080 --> 05:08.440] Trust me, yes. [05:08.940 --> 05:09.920] Five hours east as well. [05:10.000 --> 05:12.620] It's our east as well, but all the way around the world. [05:12.880 --> 05:13.240] Okay. [05:14.500 --> 05:15.420] International dateline. [05:15.840 --> 05:21.520] Just on the side that you are of the international dateline, some comes up... [05:22.260 --> 05:23.180] What's your point, Jan? [05:23.260 --> 05:23.660] What's your point? [05:23.780 --> 05:28.160] The point is, okay, you're seeing a sunrise ahead of us seeing a sunrise. [05:28.420 --> 05:30.440] You're seeing Thursday morning sunrise. [05:30.760 --> 05:32.800] You know, we have a secret advantage. [05:33.280 --> 05:33.740] What's that? [05:33.740 --> 05:36.040] I'm convinced that it's not Wednesday where you are. [05:36.060 --> 05:37.020] I'm convinced it's Thursday. [05:37.300 --> 05:38.660] We have the computer. [05:39.360 --> 05:46.200] And Kamau, who is engineering for us today, has pulled up the current time zones and dates all around the world. [05:46.200 --> 05:48.280] And Kuala Lumpur is on the list. [05:48.680 --> 05:49.120] Hang on. [05:49.200 --> 05:50.040] Can you hold on one second? [05:50.040 --> 05:51.180] We just opened up the window here. [05:51.380 --> 05:51.740] Hold on. [05:52.260 --> 05:52.900] Are you there? [05:54.180 --> 05:54.660] Don't fret. [05:54.760 --> 05:55.320] What day is today? [05:56.440 --> 05:57.160] It's Christmas. [05:59.220 --> 06:00.060] Why do you say that? [06:00.120 --> 06:00.760] We seem to have... [06:00.760 --> 06:01.540] Why do I say it's Christmas? [06:02.000 --> 06:03.640] I think that's Bernie that has left us. [06:03.800 --> 06:04.200] Bernie, yes. [06:04.600 --> 06:05.200] Why did he leave? [06:05.460 --> 06:06.020] We thought you were... [06:06.020 --> 06:09.520] You know, phone connections to Philadelphia have always been so atrocious. [06:09.760 --> 06:10.140] Well, wait. [06:10.240 --> 06:12.740] Didn't you send them up the street to get the biggest turkey in the window? [06:14.580 --> 06:16.940] Oh, you know, okay, Phiber, we've got a bit of a problem here. [06:17.220 --> 06:19.380] I mentioned we're supposed to give the keynote on Thursday. [06:19.520 --> 06:22.220] If we have to give the keynote today, I mean, we have to give the keynote in a couple of hours. [06:22.720 --> 06:23.000] Wow. [06:23.160 --> 06:24.280] Have you prepared anything? [06:24.540 --> 06:27.340] Because, you know, here's what I have so far. [06:29.280 --> 06:29.800] Okay, hang on. [06:29.860 --> 06:30.500] Let me pull this up. [06:32.520 --> 06:32.940] All right. [06:34.020 --> 06:34.300] Greetings. [06:35.520 --> 06:37.700] This is a manual from 2600. [06:37.760 --> 06:41.080] I figured I was going to give it 90 seconds for applause, but I might have to give it the full two minutes. [06:43.320 --> 06:44.240] Do we have to wait? [06:46.160 --> 06:47.100] Yeah, okay. [06:47.420 --> 06:48.740] And then I... [06:49.720 --> 06:53.980] This is my first time in Malaysia, and this reminds me of a joke. [06:55.080 --> 06:56.740] And damn it, I did not get the joke yet. [06:56.860 --> 06:57.900] I'm supposed to get that today. [06:58.060 --> 06:59.400] Wait, you were supposed to pause for laughter. [06:59.460 --> 07:01.280] No, I was going to get a joke at the train station. [07:01.360 --> 07:02.260] I figured they had some there. [07:02.260 --> 07:02.640] One moment. [07:03.320 --> 07:05.340] This may be very premature on your part. [07:05.480 --> 07:10.060] Mike, why don't you read and find out exactly what time and what day it is in Kuala Lumpur? [07:10.060 --> 07:12.420] Or, you know, in Kolkata... [07:12.420 --> 07:12.580] Well, it's Thursday. [07:12.920 --> 07:15.920] The guy in the street just verified that it is, in fact, Thursday. [07:16.120 --> 07:16.820] Yeah, that's what I thought. [07:16.820 --> 07:19.200] I thought you were going crazy, or I was going crazy. [07:19.660 --> 07:20.980] No, we're all going crazy. [07:21.120 --> 07:27.160] But, okay, so, Fiverr, we each have to give a keynote address in a couple of hours, which is early morning here in Kuala Lumpur. [07:27.640 --> 07:33.240] And I guess we're going to have to wing it and talk about something of interest and keep the people happy that way. [07:33.400 --> 07:34.660] Yeah, we'll just wing it, our... [07:34.660 --> 07:35.040] Yeah. [07:36.200 --> 07:40.940] So we've been wandering around here in this amazing place, this country, this city. [07:42.020 --> 07:46.080] Fiverr, any experiences that you want to share with the audience back there in New York? [07:46.280 --> 07:49.520] Yeah, they really like fried chicken here. [07:49.740 --> 07:50.940] Yeah, they do, actually. [07:51.400 --> 08:03.040] KFCs are everywhere, but also, we went out to a place way at the end of one of the train lines yesterday and just had a traditional Malaysian meal with people at a street stand. [08:03.600 --> 08:05.360] There was a cat hanging around there. [08:05.460 --> 08:05.980] It was pretty cool. [08:06.300 --> 08:08.120] What is a traditional Malaysian meal? [08:09.160 --> 08:09.880] Well, let's see. [08:09.900 --> 08:16.880] You have rice, you have some curry, fish maybe, maybe some chicken, all sorts of different things. [08:16.980 --> 08:18.300] And anything I've left out, Fiverr? [08:19.620 --> 08:21.320] Well, only that the... [08:21.320 --> 08:23.020] Some things are very spicy. [08:23.740 --> 08:24.160] Yes. [08:24.620 --> 08:25.040] Extremely. [08:25.300 --> 08:31.100] Not universally so, but they do like the red pepper and quite a number of things. [08:31.300 --> 08:32.900] Like, there was that shrimp yesterday. [08:33.140 --> 08:33.820] Oh, yeah, yeah. [08:33.980 --> 08:34.740] Super spicy. [08:34.900 --> 08:35.640] It was very spicy. [08:35.860 --> 08:35.960] Yeah. [08:36.240 --> 08:39.800] Actually, not quite as spicy as some of the things you might have in, say, an Indian place. [08:40.560 --> 08:40.980] But... [08:40.980 --> 08:51.980] Oh, and there's also a community here known as Little India, which is similar to the one in Singapore, but closer to us and a lot bigger, I think. [08:52.160 --> 08:53.500] There's also a Chinatown. [08:53.880 --> 09:04.740] And the ethnicity in this place is very mixed, but also very alien to us, because literally, I would say, almost every woman walking around has a different kind of a headdress on. [09:05.140 --> 09:07.400] And I'm just not used to seeing something like that. [09:07.400 --> 09:12.640] And we must be the people who stand out like sore thumbs, just walking around in the streets and riding the trains. [09:12.900 --> 09:13.620] Not everyone has a headdress. [09:13.700 --> 09:14.160] No, that's true. [09:14.220 --> 09:14.620] Not everyone. [09:14.740 --> 09:18.040] But so many people do, and there are so many different varieties and styles. [09:18.720 --> 09:32.000] And just to see that in such numbers, it's kind of weird, especially when you watch the news and you see all kinds of disturbing reports about different parts of the world and how it's all hostile. [09:32.080 --> 09:33.500] It's not like that here at all. [09:33.500 --> 09:36.460] People are so friendly, so open, so hospitable. [09:36.980 --> 09:42.100] And after you get used to it being a little bit strange, you just kind of feel really comfortable. [09:42.380 --> 09:49.980] I know, Fiverr, you picked up a phrase book yesterday at the bookstore, and you're learning the language, which is something that I never do. [09:50.680 --> 09:52.420] Any words that you'd like to share with us? [09:54.920 --> 09:55.560] Let's see. [09:55.680 --> 09:57.500] Well, we were talking about chicken and rice. [09:57.740 --> 09:58.860] That's nasi ayam. [09:59.700 --> 10:00.540] Nasi ayam. [10:00.840 --> 10:03.000] Nasi is rice, and ayam is chicken. [10:04.920 --> 10:09.020] But the language, for some reason, seems pretty easy to pick up. [10:09.220 --> 10:10.540] What is the name of the language? [10:10.700 --> 10:10.980] Malay? [10:11.760 --> 10:12.660] It's Malay. [10:12.740 --> 10:14.700] The actual thing that they call it is Bahasa. [10:15.020 --> 10:15.400] Okay. [10:16.120 --> 10:19.820] And there's Indonesian Bahasa and Malaysian Bahasa, but they're extremely similar. [10:20.140 --> 10:24.460] So it would actually be a very valuable language to learn, since so many people speak it. [10:25.920 --> 10:28.060] And it's a very interesting country. [10:28.780 --> 10:37.700] We're at borders, because it goes up to Thailand on one side and cuts over to another island. [10:37.960 --> 10:38.880] Actually, we're not on an island. [10:39.000 --> 10:39.500] We're on a peninsula. [10:41.000 --> 10:44.300] And there are just many different regions of this country. [10:44.780 --> 10:47.840] They just also, incidentally, last Friday was their 50th anniversary. [10:47.840 --> 10:52.780] They had a real spectacular celebration with all sorts of fireworks and airplanes. [10:52.900 --> 10:54.460] And I missed it, because I was in Singapore. [10:54.460 --> 10:58.800] Singapore, but it's the 50th anniversary of independence from Britain. [10:59.860 --> 11:02.040] And Singapore broke away. [11:02.040 --> 11:05.780] Actually, I think they were kicked out of the country in 1965. [11:07.080 --> 11:09.360] You see flags waving everywhere. [11:09.380 --> 11:12.360] And the weird thing is, the flag looks very similar to the U.S. [11:12.400 --> 11:12.700] flag. [11:13.160 --> 11:17.080] It's got the same number of stripes, the same color. [11:18.000 --> 11:21.560] And they have a, what is it, a star in the middle? [11:22.200 --> 11:32.580] Well, in the upper left corner, where the blue field is, instead of 50 stars, they have a golden crescent next to a golden sun. [11:33.060 --> 11:34.200] Yeah, very big star. [11:34.520 --> 11:34.720] Yeah. [11:35.020 --> 11:36.860] And, well, the flag is also longer. [11:37.040 --> 11:42.000] It's more banner-like, rather than the proportions of our flag. [11:42.940 --> 11:44.320] But that's a nice flag. [11:44.580 --> 11:45.100] It is. [11:45.320 --> 11:47.200] It's also a very modern city. [11:47.200 --> 11:53.860] There are all sorts of skyscrapers and air-conditioned trains that go just about everywhere. [11:54.060 --> 11:54.540] That's really... [11:54.540 --> 11:55.680] There's too much air conditioning. [11:55.900 --> 11:57.760] Everyone's actually sick here, we should mention. [11:57.960 --> 11:59.020] Yeah, that's another thing. [11:59.460 --> 12:00.440] It's warm. [12:00.580 --> 12:01.300] It's a warm climate. [12:01.500 --> 12:02.860] We're not far from the equator. [12:03.160 --> 12:08.660] In fact, the sun always rises and sets about the same time every day around the seasons. [12:10.560 --> 12:12.260] So you get used to that. [12:12.260 --> 12:16.920] But if you walk into a train, even a train station, you'll feel the air-conditioning immediately. [12:17.400 --> 12:21.140] Underground, the trains are of the sort where you have an inner door. [12:21.400 --> 12:23.240] You don't hear the train actually pulling up. [12:23.460 --> 12:27.860] There's an inner door that kind of prevents people from accessing the track in any way. [12:28.220 --> 12:30.400] And that whole region is air-conditioned as well. [12:30.500 --> 12:32.360] And once you get into the train, that's also very cool. [12:33.080 --> 12:36.160] So, yeah, the temperature change can kind of mess you up. [12:36.800 --> 12:38.600] Everyone's coughing and sneezing. [12:38.600 --> 12:44.460] And, yeah, I mean, a little air-conditioning is fine against the heat, but it's just way too much in most places. [12:44.620 --> 12:49.580] You picked up a candy bar yesterday that advised enjoying it in an air-conditioned room. [12:49.740 --> 12:50.860] Yeah, it was actually... [12:50.860 --> 12:51.940] Can I say the name on the air? [12:52.000 --> 12:52.820] Yeah, say the name on the air. [12:52.900 --> 12:53.660] It was actually a Kit Kat. [12:54.620 --> 12:56.200] It's rather popular here. [12:56.580 --> 12:59.300] I think a lot more popular than it is in the U.S. [12:59.340 --> 13:07.820] Well, you got yourself in trouble because you took a Kit Kat from the hotel mini bar, and you've been going all over town trying to replace it with one, but they have different wrappers. [13:07.820 --> 13:14.240] There's things that sometimes you get a craving, you know, at odd times for something, and the mini bar's just so close. [13:14.480 --> 13:15.520] It's just right there. [13:15.680 --> 13:17.700] Yeah, but it's also $12 for a Kit Kat bar. [13:17.720 --> 13:27.080] Yeah, and it'll be like some ridiculous price for whatever you take, so then you scramble the look to replace the thing before it gets tallied by the hotel staff. [13:27.500 --> 13:31.240] But I could not find the exact Kit Kat that they have in the mini bar. [13:31.260 --> 13:32.120] I think it was a conspiracy. [13:32.120 --> 13:37.580] You also have a theory about, what is it, what power drink do you have? [13:37.700 --> 13:38.360] Oh, yeah, Red Bull. [13:38.500 --> 13:39.040] Red Bull, yes. [13:39.040 --> 13:40.400] Red Bull here is completely different. [13:41.640 --> 13:49.200] It's made by the same parent company as the original, original Red Bull, but it's in a different size can. [13:49.200 --> 13:50.880] It's in these short, stubby cans. [13:50.880 --> 13:55.140] It's very similar to, like, the short, stubby Budweiser's that nobody drinks anymore. [13:56.880 --> 14:04.680] The thing that's weird is that it's not carbonated, like the one we get in the U.S., which I think is from Austria and Switzerland. [14:05.620 --> 14:12.920] It's not carbonated here, and it's extra sweet, like sugar water, basically. [14:12.920 --> 14:18.120] And also, it has a citrusy taste to it, which ours doesn't. [14:19.320 --> 14:26.160] The problem, when I first got here, I sought out some Red Bulls so that I could wake up and try to get over the jet lag. [14:26.320 --> 14:28.140] Well, you stayed up the whole flight like I did. [14:28.280 --> 14:29.240] I couldn't sleep. [14:29.460 --> 14:30.180] 24-hour flight. [14:30.340 --> 14:31.220] Yeah, I couldn't sleep. [14:31.560 --> 14:37.260] So by the time it was nighttime here, I had been up a whole full, what, day and a half. [14:37.540 --> 14:38.580] So I was exhausted. [14:38.900 --> 14:45.340] So in order to function a little bit, I figured, let me find some Red Bulls that I heard they had them here from Thailand, which they did. [14:45.800 --> 14:49.300] But like I said, there was no carbonation, totally different flavor. [14:49.640 --> 14:53.020] And then the kicker was, there was no kicker. [14:53.680 --> 14:56.100] And I'm wondering what the heck is going on. [14:56.280 --> 14:57.100] I'm drinking Red Bulls. [14:57.160 --> 14:58.600] I feel no different whatsoever. [15:00.240 --> 15:02.180] So I look at the ingredients on the can. [15:02.940 --> 15:05.520] Strangely absent from the ingredients is caffeine. [15:09.320 --> 15:10.500] Hello, are you still there? [15:11.440 --> 15:19.160] Well, we've temporarily lost our friends over in Kuala Lumpur, so we'll just have to vamp for a little while while we try to recover them. [15:19.440 --> 15:20.560] How's that process going? [15:21.800 --> 15:23.700] It's the vamping or the calling? [15:23.880 --> 15:25.340] Oh, well, just check on the calling. [15:25.340 --> 15:25.840] I'll vamp. [15:26.000 --> 15:26.340] All right. [15:27.260 --> 15:33.420] We've talked in the past about the active denial system, the thing we all want to put on our pickup truck in the future. [15:33.420 --> 15:40.100] This is the microwave-type weapon developed by the Marines to control unruly crowds. [15:40.100 --> 15:42.800] It gives you a feeling that your skin is on fire. [15:43.720 --> 15:49.240] Sometimes it's believed to cause intestinal disruption, things like that. [15:49.420 --> 15:51.760] In other words, a fun item for boys and girls. [15:51.760 --> 16:04.020] But it turns out that commanders in Iraq have wanted this thing for some time and have been denied by the higher-ups on the theory that it seems too much like torture. [16:04.420 --> 16:08.040] Well, it's nice to know that somebody's getting a little sensitive on that issue somewhere. [16:10.260 --> 16:11.300] Let's see what else. [16:11.440 --> 16:19.200] We talked last week about the iPhone, how a kid from New Jersey had managed to hack it to replace a SIM card. [16:19.400 --> 16:33.960] There's now a lawsuit, totally independent of this, against Apple, from someone saying that iPhone and Apple weren't disclosing that it's only for AT&T and that roaming charges were required. [16:33.960 --> 16:43.380] The website, as well as the brochures from Apple, said that you could browse the internet and send emails as often as you like without being charged extra. [16:43.560 --> 16:47.820] It turns out that didn't include roaming charges, and the website never disclosed that. [16:47.820 --> 16:51.000] So there's a large lawsuit, a class action, in New York courts. [16:51.060 --> 16:52.940] And we think we have Kuala Lumpur back. [16:53.700 --> 16:55.920] Yeah, hold on one second while I get fiber back. [16:56.320 --> 16:57.420] That's very high tech. [16:58.280 --> 17:00.160] I really don't think you're dialing fiber. [17:00.260 --> 17:02.600] I think you're playing the start of a Pink Floyd song. [17:02.620 --> 17:03.820] It sounds much like that. [17:06.200 --> 17:06.920] How often? [17:07.080 --> 17:07.780] Ringing fiber in his room. [17:08.360 --> 17:08.880] How often? [17:09.180 --> 17:09.400] Okay. [17:09.740 --> 17:10.400] What happened, Guy? [17:10.440 --> 17:12.460] We heard you say that you couldn't hear us. [17:12.540 --> 17:15.400] Now, how could we hear you say you couldn't hear us if we were disconnected? [17:16.100 --> 17:16.460] Telepathy. [17:17.920 --> 17:18.500] I don't know. [17:18.620 --> 17:19.060] Can you hear us? [17:19.200 --> 17:20.200] Yes, we hear you now. [17:21.660 --> 17:24.620] It's the magical telephone system. [17:24.820 --> 17:26.860] Well, we heard you say that you couldn't hear us. [17:26.920 --> 17:28.080] So that's kind of weird, don't you think? [17:28.080 --> 17:33.300] Well, did you continue to hear us say about connecting Kuala Lumpur and vamping while we were disconnected? [17:33.780 --> 17:34.840] No, then you hung up. [17:35.560 --> 17:36.760] No, we didn't. [17:36.880 --> 17:40.840] Yeah, that's what we do when we can't hear the people is we hang up on them and then we call them back. [17:40.840 --> 17:42.280] We sat after the show, believe me. [17:42.440 --> 17:48.580] But let's figure out what the last thing you heard from fiber was because he was giving a very important dissertation. [17:48.860 --> 17:51.880] He was talking about the lack of caffeine. [17:52.580 --> 17:53.160] Oh, okay. [17:53.160 --> 17:53.860] That was pretty much it. [17:53.920 --> 17:54.480] That was the whole story then. [17:55.020 --> 17:55.760] Oh, yeah, we heard it. [17:55.920 --> 17:58.720] Okay, so I didn't detect any caffeine in it. [17:58.800 --> 18:01.420] There was something listed on a can, which I thought was very odd. [18:02.220 --> 18:03.280] That's as far as you got. [18:05.420 --> 18:10.300] Yeah, so it's a very controversial thing that there's no caffeine or supposedly no caffeine. [18:10.300 --> 18:14.080] The controversy is that everyone here thinks it still has caffeine in it. [18:14.720 --> 18:16.700] So the wool is being pulled over their eyes. [18:17.360 --> 18:21.520] We found caffeine as an ingredient in other sodas, like... [18:21.520 --> 18:21.940] Very little. [18:22.180 --> 18:31.840] Yeah, well, Coke, for instance, which, by the way, still has sugar in it, not corn syrup, which we believe is the reason why everybody in America is getting fat because they have corn syrup and everything. [18:32.080 --> 18:33.240] It's the corn conspiracy. [18:33.480 --> 18:33.640] Yeah. [18:34.640 --> 18:38.300] Any other products that stand out that you'd like to compare to the United States? [18:38.900 --> 18:40.100] I try to Snickers. [18:40.300 --> 18:43.480] It tasted exactly the same and was called Snickers. [18:43.700 --> 18:43.900] Wow. [18:44.080 --> 18:44.260] It was good. [18:44.660 --> 18:49.780] Kit Kat had the British wrapper, the red and white wrapper, but it was still a Kit Kat. [18:50.160 --> 18:52.400] There are very many British things about Malaysia. [18:52.400 --> 18:54.040] They drive on the left side of the road. [18:54.220 --> 18:55.740] Also known as the wrong side. [18:56.120 --> 18:56.540] Yes. [18:57.220 --> 18:59.740] And they also sit on the wrong side of the car. [19:00.040 --> 19:01.140] They do that as well. [19:02.540 --> 19:04.240] Well, yeah, it's very British. [19:04.460 --> 19:06.000] A lot of cars here, a lot of pollution. [19:06.820 --> 19:09.040] So in that way, it's also very much like Britain. [19:10.700 --> 19:14.280] But I'm surprised kind of at how westernized so many things are. [19:14.380 --> 19:15.380] You see a lot of chains. [19:16.160 --> 19:18.520] Some chains, not so many as others. [19:18.840 --> 19:22.260] I actually saw a Kenny Rogers in a shopping mall. [19:22.800 --> 19:23.860] I thought they went out of business. [19:24.120 --> 19:25.080] A Kenny Rogers what? [19:25.540 --> 19:26.620] A Kenny Rogers roasters. [19:27.240 --> 19:27.540] Oh. [19:28.060 --> 19:28.540] Remember that? [19:28.700 --> 19:28.940] The second place. [19:29.140 --> 19:29.300] Yeah. [19:31.540 --> 19:35.140] There's a McDonald's in the train station, but it's an ice cream McDonald's. [19:35.180 --> 19:40.640] Yeah, there's this other thing we're noticing about certain chains selling things that they don't sell in the U.S. [19:41.280 --> 19:45.340] Like a McDonald's kiosk that only sells McIce cream. [19:47.820 --> 19:48.300] Fascinating. [19:48.440 --> 19:53.080] But, you know, there's so much more to the culture than how much western influences have ruined it. [19:53.880 --> 19:58.980] But it's a wide mix of religions and people and cultures. [19:58.980 --> 19:59.900] Yeah, but it's mostly Muslim. [20:00.120 --> 20:01.160] It's mostly Muslim, yes. [20:01.160 --> 20:03.460] But there are many different styles and flavors of that. [20:04.160 --> 20:07.280] And you can stay here forever and learn an awful lot about it. [20:07.660 --> 20:13.800] Something about the conference, Hack in the Box is a conference that's actually been running for a few years here in Kuala Lumpur. [20:14.460 --> 20:23.000] There's also been crack-in-the-box conferences in Dubai and Bahrain over the years. [20:23.440 --> 20:27.780] And it's drawn quite a diverse crowd throughout the world. [20:27.960 --> 20:32.180] I'm meeting a lot of people here, some of whom I already know, some of whom I already know for the first time. [20:32.820 --> 20:38.600] And it's just great to see people into the world of hacking, into the world of technology, so far away. [20:38.600 --> 20:42.280] And I really think that we're as far away as we can get at this point. [20:42.600 --> 20:48.120] Who or what is the guiding force behind Hack in the Box? [20:49.180 --> 20:53.540] This guy named Dylan is the force behind it all. [20:53.740 --> 21:00.140] He has magical powers and he has brought us out here and basically made the whole thing happen. [21:00.780 --> 21:02.180] What is the content like? [21:02.180 --> 21:04.080] Is it like a lot of the other conferences that we've covered? [21:05.020 --> 21:09.500] It's a lot of security talks, but they also have lock-picking. [21:10.240 --> 21:13.520] They also have news about hacking. [21:14.320 --> 21:22.280] It's basically... it's a lot more corporate than what we're used to with the HOPE conferences, but some of that edge is there, which is a good thing to see. [21:22.540 --> 21:26.620] So you have people representing all different kinds of communities. [21:27.080 --> 21:39.060] But the interesting thing here is seeing the audience, seeing that they're obviously from a different part of the world, yet they have the same interest and a lot of similar questions that you might hear at a hacker conference. [21:39.220 --> 21:40.920] And they speak that funny British English. [21:41.180 --> 21:42.980] Yeah, they speak that funny British English. [21:43.100 --> 21:45.200] And it's different. [21:45.260 --> 21:46.780] It's different, but it's similar. [21:47.060 --> 21:49.920] And that's kind of reassuring in some ways. [21:50.180 --> 21:53.640] So it's a different crowd than you'd find at HOPE and CCC and the Dutch conferences? [21:53.640 --> 21:58.220] Because I know I see a lot of familiar faces every time I go to one of the conferences in Europe. [21:58.980 --> 22:03.620] Yeah, a lot of different people, more Asian crowd, obviously. [22:05.160 --> 22:13.780] And it's interesting to see people walking around in Arab headdress or Muslim headdress and just talking about hacking. [22:14.120 --> 22:15.460] It's kind of cool. [22:15.740 --> 22:17.440] So it's technically a dress or a wrap? [22:17.720 --> 22:19.820] Yeah, you know, I've got to get the terminology right. [22:20.640 --> 22:21.900] It's just very different. [22:22.320 --> 22:23.360] It's extremely different. [22:24.940 --> 22:26.880] But, yeah, hack in the box taking place. [22:27.480 --> 22:30.740] I guess today is the last day, then, if today is, in fact, Thursday. [22:30.960 --> 22:32.140] And I am going to double-check that. [22:33.080 --> 22:35.460] So it's too late for an American to go there. [22:36.300 --> 22:37.640] I'm sorry, go ahead and back in New York. [22:37.780 --> 22:41.160] I was going to say it's too late for an American to go there with the 24-hour flight. [22:41.300 --> 22:42.980] It'll be over by the time they arrive. [22:43.280 --> 22:46.640] Yeah, normally I would suggest people go to these conferences. [22:46.640 --> 22:52.480] But in this case, by the time you left, it would already be over because we're a day ahead of you. [22:53.440 --> 22:56.700] So you just confuse yourself and wind up here a day later. [22:56.860 --> 22:59.440] But if he did leave now, he'd get back before he left. [22:59.560 --> 23:00.500] That's the other thing. [23:00.520 --> 23:02.100] And you have to help me figure this out. [23:02.220 --> 23:04.420] We're supposed to leave over the weekend. [23:04.680 --> 23:08.280] And my understanding is that we're going to be on an airplane for 24 hours. [23:08.460 --> 23:12.660] Yet somehow we're going to arrive back home the same day that we leave. [23:13.460 --> 23:14.480] It's very magical. [23:15.240 --> 23:17.820] Didn't you say the guy running the conference had magical powers? [23:17.960 --> 23:18.740] Maybe this is one of them. [23:18.820 --> 23:21.480] Yeah, I'm not sure he's responsible for what goes on in the air. [23:22.320 --> 23:28.340] But when we got here, you know how sometimes when you travel, you look at the plane itinerary. [23:28.340 --> 23:29.820] In this case, it's actually a plane ticket. [23:30.160 --> 23:35.540] And it says arrival on, say, Thursday or whatever, plus one day. [23:36.380 --> 23:38.280] In this case, it said plus two days. [23:38.480 --> 23:40.100] So it was really a long flight. [23:40.500 --> 23:42.140] I saw two sunrises. [23:42.820 --> 23:43.920] We flew to Sweden. [23:43.920 --> 23:45.640] I saw one sunrise before we got there. [23:45.640 --> 23:47.820] Then we flew east again. [23:48.160 --> 23:49.140] Sun went down. [23:49.240 --> 23:51.240] Then the sun came up right before we got to Malaysia. [23:51.840 --> 23:55.240] So it was definitely a very long time to be on an airplane. [23:55.240 --> 23:57.040] And we get to repeat that all over again. [23:57.980 --> 24:00.840] But you'll have maybe zero sunrises to balance it all out. [24:01.100 --> 24:05.680] Yeah, I guess it's going to be the longest day of my life because the sun will be up when we leave in the morning. [24:05.680 --> 24:08.620] And it'll be up, I guess, when we get to New York. [24:10.040 --> 24:12.660] Speaking of New York, I understand things are happening there. [24:12.800 --> 24:15.920] I hear there's a taxi strike because of that whole GPS controversy. [24:15.920 --> 24:17.060] Any news on that? [24:17.300 --> 24:18.360] That's what I hear also. [24:18.360 --> 24:22.380] I don't really take taxis, so I don't know how bad it was. [24:22.480 --> 24:27.760] I read in the newspaper that some people had to wait an especially long time for their taxis to come. [24:27.760 --> 24:33.980] And I would like to point out that in Philadelphia, the cabbies are in solidarity. [24:34.420 --> 24:47.460] They're also striking here in Philadelphia, which they did a good year or two ago when this system was rolled out here in Philly because they just don't like having their every action tracked. [24:48.960 --> 25:03.240] It's not just their location, but when a fair begins, when a fair ends, and all this stuff is, all this data is compiled to see if they're overcharging anyone, that sort of thing. [25:03.380 --> 25:07.940] So it's what the Philly cabbies are upset about, and apparently the New York cabbies are also. [25:08.140 --> 25:10.100] Well, there's more to it than that. [25:10.100 --> 25:26.960] Melissa Plout, who's a hack and an author of a hot new book about cab drivers called Naturally Enough Hack, had an op-ed piece in this past Sunday's Times in which she mentioned a number of things that we didn't know about when we talked about this last week, [25:27.180 --> 25:38.780] one of which is that the cab fleet or driver is billed for this system that's mandated, which is somewhere between $3,000 and $4,000. [25:40.260 --> 25:46.440] Secondly, if the system goes offline, you have to go off-duty at that point. [25:48.960 --> 25:54.480] Thirdly, if the credit card payment doesn't work, same thing there. [25:54.480 --> 25:56.420] You have to go off-duty. [25:56.580 --> 25:59.780] You can't put a sign up that says cash rides only. [25:59.820 --> 26:01.760] You have to wait and get it repaired. [26:01.760 --> 26:07.420] So anything goes wrong with this, and the driver is pretty much taking a hard hit. [26:08.200 --> 26:09.100] It's interesting. [26:09.300 --> 26:14.000] In Singapore, I was in a taxi, and the driver had GPS technology. [26:14.000 --> 26:20.820] I told him about the situation back in New York where people are upset at being forced to use GPS technology in their cabs. [26:20.900 --> 26:23.840] And he couldn't understand what the problem was. [26:23.840 --> 26:32.300] As he said, it's a very useful tool for him to be able to find alternate routes and to be able to find a fare if he gets a call. [26:33.200 --> 26:36.260] Obviously, it's a different kind of system where people go out on calls. [26:36.720 --> 26:40.160] They also have the congestion pricing system there. [26:40.300 --> 26:46.720] Every car has a smart card that's attached to a device in the windshield. [26:47.200 --> 26:52.640] And basically, what you see as you drive around the city, you see amounts getting deducted from the card. [26:52.640 --> 26:56.560] And I guess you can add money to it in various places. [26:58.160 --> 27:02.120] It's similar to the system in London, and I guess what they want to bring to New York. [27:02.260 --> 27:06.020] However, unlike London, there aren't cameras all over the place. [27:06.020 --> 27:19.840] Instead, there are more like easy pass sensors that sense when your car is passing by a certain point and then deducts the amount of money at that point, and you see it on your device, on your windshield. [27:20.740 --> 27:23.760] So it's interesting how they get the technology to work. [27:23.840 --> 27:29.100] I think if the technology works, then it might make things easier. [27:29.100 --> 27:34.400] If, of course, you penalize the drivers when it doesn't work, that's going to add all kinds of resistance. [27:34.400 --> 27:37.760] They take credit cards and taxis, I believe here in Malaysia. [27:37.920 --> 27:40.640] I haven't taken a taxi here, but definitely in Singapore. [27:40.660 --> 27:41.620] And it's seamless. [27:41.780 --> 27:42.320] It's very easy. [27:42.440 --> 27:45.500] You hand the guy your credit card, and that's all there is to it. [27:45.740 --> 27:47.400] Well, let's just make one thing clear. [27:47.520 --> 27:50.680] The system in New York cannot be accessed by the cabbie. [27:50.780 --> 27:51.620] It's in the back seat. [27:51.960 --> 27:55.120] There's no trip plotting associated with this. [27:55.360 --> 28:03.220] All it does is bring up a map that shows you where the cab is to the passenger, and all it does is record this to the Taxi and Limousine Commission. [28:03.220 --> 28:17.840] Right, and the issue between the convenience factor of a GPS, which anybody can purchase as a consumer electronics device, and what they're doing here is that you can still have the convenience without having all the data logged and sent back to the Taxi and Limousine Commission. [28:18.140 --> 28:19.860] So, I mean, that's a separate issue. [28:20.020 --> 28:30.100] The technology can actually make the trip easier and more convenient for the driver and even allow the passenger to monitor the progress without actually having to report it. [28:30.100 --> 28:35.220] So, the privacy issues don't have to be there, but the convenience factor can still be there. [28:35.280 --> 28:37.060] So, it's a totally different issue, I think. [28:37.600 --> 28:47.660] And I would like to point out in Philadelphia, in the Philadelphia cab tracking system, the convenience factors are there as well. [28:47.860 --> 28:58.740] The one cabbie told me he found it very convenient that he could look up a hotel or restaurant alphabetically on a directory on a touchscreen, and it would direct him right there. [28:58.860 --> 28:59.580] And he did like that. [28:59.680 --> 29:02.180] So, apparently, the New York system does not allow this. [29:02.280 --> 29:02.580] Is that right? [29:02.920 --> 29:03.340] No, it doesn't. [29:03.340 --> 29:09.480] Well, the interesting thing is that the GPS system in Singapore is next to the driver. [29:09.480 --> 29:10.660] It's not in the backseat. [29:10.660 --> 29:11.720] And I can understand it. [29:11.820 --> 29:19.960] And he expressed concern over this possibility, too, of having a display in the backseat, because then you literally have backseat drivers saying, don't go this way, go that way. [29:20.520 --> 29:30.040] And one thing we learned, and I believe not, Kevin, you can attest to this, when we took that taxi, we got back from Germany, from LaGuardia to WBAI, that guy knew what he was doing. [29:30.160 --> 29:37.260] Now, if we'd been watching him on the screen, we might have said, no, don't go down this road because you're going in the wrong direction. [29:37.260 --> 29:40.700] But we wouldn't know that he was actually taking a shortcut to get to a highway. [29:40.920 --> 29:43.440] We actually almost stopped him and told him to go a different way. [29:43.960 --> 29:44.660] And we didn't. [29:49.960 --> 29:54.020] He was at the airport in New York and you had to go to New Jersey where he had absolutely no clue what he was doing, right? [29:54.920 --> 29:55.540] That is true. [29:55.620 --> 29:57.620] But he still got me there in under an hour. [29:57.740 --> 29:58.880] He got you there in under an hour. [29:58.960 --> 30:06.440] But if you knew the route and you were telling him or you had a map in front of you that said, hey, no, don't, you know, you're going to have to make a U-turn if you do this, you know, it would be... [30:06.440 --> 30:06.900] I don't know. [30:06.980 --> 30:08.020] I mean, yeah, it's... [30:08.020 --> 30:09.720] There's a downside to having backseat drivers. [30:09.860 --> 30:12.520] But at the same time, you're hiring the cab to take you where you want to go. [30:12.720 --> 30:16.640] And if it's your fault that it takes longer to get there, then you're paying for it anyway. [30:17.280 --> 30:21.560] The thing is, you have to make a leap of faith when you have a taxi taking you someplace. [30:21.820 --> 30:32.940] In not Kevin's case, when he was going at high speeds from JFK to Newark Airport because of that misunderstanding, yes, there was a period where he went the wrong way in a moment of panic. [30:32.940 --> 30:36.000] But he figured it out, turned around, and everything was fine. [30:36.460 --> 30:41.200] If there's all kinds of people shouting out different directions, I just think it might get a lot more confusing. [30:42.940 --> 30:46.460] Well, there's people who do that anyway without GPS. [30:46.640 --> 30:48.340] So, you never know. [30:48.860 --> 30:53.220] Speaking of cameras, though, I wanted to just mention, maybe some of our listeners can explain this. [30:53.620 --> 30:59.020] In my local subway station, which is on the Lexington Avenue line, they've installed... [30:59.020 --> 31:01.260] I think it's new, but maybe I just never noticed it before. [31:01.460 --> 31:16.460] They've installed this whole row of cameras, and there's one on each side of the turnstiles, one row, and there's like a camera maybe every two meters near the turnstiles, which adds up to maybe ten or a dozen cameras. [31:16.480 --> 31:21.220] It's very strange, very Orwellian, and I don't know what purpose it serves. [31:21.460 --> 31:23.540] Now, are these cameras before the meter or after them? [31:23.820 --> 31:26.840] I originally thought they were only before, but then I... [31:26.840 --> 31:29.740] either they installed more or I looked more closely, and they're on both sides. [31:29.820 --> 31:31.200] There's one row on each side. [31:31.460 --> 31:33.380] We seem to have lost... [31:33.880 --> 31:35.840] We seem to have lost Malaysia. [31:36.260 --> 31:37.560] So it's very strange. [31:39.580 --> 31:42.140] Now, you've brought the picture in before, but you don't have it now. [31:42.360 --> 31:42.540] No. [31:42.780 --> 31:43.240] Is it... [31:43.660 --> 31:46.300] Do you have a tiny URL for it on the web by any chance? [31:46.480 --> 31:47.260] I don't. [31:47.420 --> 31:48.000] That's a shame. [31:48.900 --> 31:49.280] Well... [31:49.280 --> 31:54.820] We should post it on the web and give the URL out next week so people know what this looks like. [31:55.020 --> 31:55.660] Well, I've... [31:55.660 --> 31:56.640] But it is peculiar. [31:56.900 --> 32:03.260] I've seen the picture before that we're referring to, and the cameras are just your basic black bulb-looking cameras that you see in any convenience store. [32:04.280 --> 32:07.240] Yeah, the odd thing is that there's so many of them, not... [32:08.080 --> 32:10.660] And you say there's a row on each side of the turnstiles. [32:11.540 --> 32:18.820] That is highly peculiar because you would think that you could cover the station as much as you wanted from either one or the other side. [32:19.440 --> 32:21.340] Well, anyway, one of the actual... [32:21.340 --> 32:31.620] One of the most interesting stories that I found this week, and I'm getting most of this information in a blog post by Lawrence Taylor, is that one of the courts in New Jersey, one of the... [32:31.620 --> 32:34.040] The Supreme Court of New Jersey actually... [32:34.040 --> 32:44.420] An attorney, Evan Levow, was able to get an order from the Supreme Court of New Jersey forcing the manufacturer of the popular Drager Alco Test 7110 to reveal the source code. [32:44.540 --> 32:58.720] Now, we always talk about revealing the source code of voting machines and other important devices like that, but this one's actually a breathalyzer test that the police administer, you know, when they pull someone over and expect that they're driving drunk. [32:59.540 --> 33:05.320] So, Levow turned the code over to experts' base one technologies to analyze. [33:05.540 --> 33:12.740] Initially, base one found that, contrary to Drager's presentations that the code was proprietary, the code consisted mostly of general algorithms. [33:12.940 --> 33:15.000] That is, the code is not really unique or proprietary. [33:15.300 --> 33:20.020] In other words, the trade secrets claim which the manufacturers were hiding behind was completely without merit. [33:20.020 --> 33:37.160] Now, there are some interesting excerpts from the base one report here and I'll go to read them and it's interesting because most of these excerpts actually display the same sort of problems that we come to see with any closed source proprietary non-audited software systems such as the voting machine systems. [33:37.320 --> 33:39.600] So, the Alco Test software would not pass U.S. [33:39.960 --> 33:41.740] industry standards for software development and testing. [33:41.920 --> 33:48.480] The program presented shows ample evidence of incomplete design, incomplete verification of design, and incomplete white box and black box testing. [33:48.760 --> 33:54.640] Therefore, the software has to be considered unreliable and untested and in several cases it does not meet stated requirements. [33:54.900 --> 33:57.580] The planning and documentation of the design is haphazard. [33:57.760 --> 34:04.360] Sections of the original code and modified code show evidence of using an experimental approach to coding or use what is best described as trial and error. [34:05.540 --> 34:08.800] Several sections are marked as quote-unquote temporary for now. [34:09.120 --> 34:14.380] Other sections where added to existing modules are inserted in a code stream leading to a patchwork design and coding style. [34:15.680 --> 34:21.380] Anyway, we can skip some of this but it's really a lot of typical stuff catastrophic error detection is disabled. [34:21.580 --> 34:31.580] An interrupt that detects that the microprocessor is trying to execute illegal instructions is disabled, meaning that the ALCO test software could appear to run correctly while executing while branches are in valid code for a period of time. [34:31.740 --> 34:34.720] Other interrupts are ignored completely. [34:35.480 --> 34:36.500] Let's see, what else? [34:37.020 --> 34:53.480] A lot of the diagnostic stuff is incorrect and it's just pretty interesting because one of the primary issues is that the way that it determines a quote-unquote zero value, which is a clean air sample, is just by sampling air when the unit's turned on. [34:53.680 --> 34:55.740] So there's actually no verification of that. [34:55.900 --> 35:00.080] And to me, that's the most vital point during the calibration of the unit. [35:00.080 --> 35:11.940] So I'm sure there are officers that have seen these units malfunction and figured out a way to incorrectly or to get incorrect readings of them based on whether or not they like the attitude of the person in the car. [35:12.560 --> 35:14.300] That's a fascinating tidbit. [35:14.440 --> 35:17.620] The zero value is determined when the thing is turned on. [35:17.780 --> 35:26.640] So what you do is you spill plenty of booze on your shirt and then lead over to the police officer who is about to turn on the breathalyzer. [35:26.780 --> 35:35.280] It takes a zero value which is heavily influenced by the three-quarters of rye on your shirt and you seem sober by comparison. [35:35.500 --> 35:36.100] Well, exactly. [35:36.260 --> 35:38.940] And there's probably ways to manipulate it the other way around. [35:39.000 --> 35:51.500] I don't know exactly how the detectors work but I'm sure there's a way to manipulate the zero value so that less alcohol than is required by law for you to be considered legally drunk will actually set off the detector. [35:51.680 --> 35:55.200] So it's definitely an interesting story and we'll see what happens. [35:55.400 --> 36:05.680] There was a case and I don't remember the guy's name where he had hired this lawyer to actually request that the source code be made available for his defense. [36:05.860 --> 36:08.780] So we'll see where that case goes and I'll get more information on that next week. [36:08.820 --> 36:17.140] But it's definitely interesting that the source code was actually revealed and that we found all the typical problems that we would expect to find. [36:17.540 --> 36:21.160] Does this mean that basically every DBUI can be invalidated? [36:22.060 --> 36:29.320] I don't know but it is true that almost most of the evidence is based upon the result from the breathalyzer test. [36:29.440 --> 36:35.960] So I mean if you fail a breathalyzer test you're pretty much guilty and it's very hard to defend against that because it was just a black box that said you were drunk. [36:36.360 --> 36:39.420] I mean look I'm all for punishing people who drive drunk. [36:39.600 --> 36:42.980] I mean I absolutely hate that but you know at the same time you have to be guilty. [36:43.240 --> 36:47.240] So we're still trying to get a manual back on the phone. [36:47.660 --> 36:49.480] But we seem to be making progress. [36:50.340 --> 36:56.480] Google is continuing its hegemony over every piece of information in the world. [36:57.400 --> 37:08.920] It's likely that it's going to provide online guides for the MTA here in New York City and New Jersey Transit the bus and commuter rail people in New Jersey. [37:09.540 --> 37:11.200] How's progress Mike? [37:12.360 --> 37:13.260] It's coming. [37:13.660 --> 37:13.780] Okay. [37:14.460 --> 37:18.540] Kuala Lumpur it's a modern city but the phone lines well it's long distance. [37:18.540 --> 37:20.960] I don't think it's that they're primitive. [37:21.000 --> 37:22.740] I think it's just that it's the other side of the world. [37:23.320 --> 37:29.580] Yeah Google Google is doing everything but saying that they're about to do this. [37:30.560 --> 37:42.280] The New Jersey Transit Executive Director Assistant Executive Director says that Google has good experience and they're looking for ways to incorporate technology in what we do. [37:42.940 --> 37:55.600] So they're leaning towards Google and the MTA is well just rumors for the MTA but New Jersey Transit looks like they're going to have their information presented via Google onto the net. [37:56.060 --> 38:02.420] The MTA has had its own website for quite a number of years now with pretty good information on it. [38:02.680 --> 38:06.920] I don't see that Google is that much an improvement but outsourcing might save money. [38:08.380 --> 38:09.140] What else? [38:10.620 --> 38:17.540] Well, there's this interesting news that the MI5 has been reading George Orwell's letters. [38:19.140 --> 38:20.820] Well, they're pretty late on that, aren't they? [38:21.540 --> 38:23.320] Well, I just have the article in front of me now. [38:23.520 --> 38:25.360] I did not actually get a chance to read it. [38:26.020 --> 38:27.160] Do you have him on the phone now? [38:27.420 --> 38:31.980] Yeah, we if I press that button we should have Emmanuel back, yes? [38:32.620 --> 38:33.220] I'm back. [38:33.280 --> 38:34.660] Yeah, I'm calling you from my cell phone. [38:35.120 --> 38:37.780] Apparently we're having trouble with the American phone number. [38:37.920 --> 38:38.760] Is that what I'm hearing? [38:39.140 --> 38:39.500] I don't know. [38:39.620 --> 38:41.800] I had a lot of trouble making calls in general. [38:41.980 --> 38:45.020] I couldn't call all kinds of numbers, so I don't know what was up with that. [39:09.440 --> 39:10.280] Oh, you know what? [39:10.340 --> 39:11.240] I didn't dial the prefix. [39:11.480 --> 39:12.660] Oh my god, I gotta call you back. [39:12.740 --> 39:13.560] This cost me a fortune. [39:14.100 --> 39:15.340] I forgot to dial the prefix. [39:15.680 --> 39:17.600] Let me call you right back on the same number. [39:17.820 --> 39:18.120] Bye-bye. [39:18.340 --> 39:18.520] Okay. [39:19.160 --> 39:23.440] So they're reading George Orwell's letters and they've discovered that he wrote letters? [39:24.020 --> 39:27.060] Yes, they've discovered a lot of things. [39:27.980 --> 39:29.580] I'm trying to operate the phone. [39:30.020 --> 39:31.120] Well, past the story. [39:31.600 --> 39:39.260] If I recall correctly, they believed at the time that he was a socialist, but they've decided now that he's not. [39:39.440 --> 39:41.140] Well, they still think he's a socialist. [39:41.140 --> 39:44.480] They're just confused about exactly what sort of socialist he was. [39:45.340 --> 39:48.580] I've read a lot of his stuff, and I'm still confused about what sort of socialist he was. [39:48.580 --> 39:54.820] Yeah, but apparently the MI5, the MI5, Jim, was also confused, so you share their confusion. [39:55.120 --> 40:00.380] Well, at this point, it's kind of academic, because he's been dead, what, 57 years? [40:00.720 --> 40:05.280] You know, the intelligence service is often slow to release its findings. [40:05.440 --> 40:07.240] But they are complete, it seems. [40:08.320 --> 40:09.340] Well, I don't know. [40:09.440 --> 40:13.560] I figured Animal Farm was kind of anti-communist, so he's not really a communist. [40:13.560 --> 40:15.280] He's definitely not a Stalinist. [40:15.740 --> 40:19.340] Well, it was more anti-authoritarian than it was anti-communist. [40:19.500 --> 40:20.340] Our kind of man. [40:22.300 --> 40:23.640] In many ways, yes. [40:25.660 --> 40:32.540] So it's just interesting that the MI5 even felt the need to figure out exactly what George Orwell's politics were. [40:33.540 --> 40:34.240] Why is that interesting? [40:34.340 --> 40:35.640] I think it's a good thing that they did that. [40:35.780 --> 40:37.600] It adds to literary commentary. [40:38.280 --> 40:40.500] All right, well, if that's one way to look at it. [40:40.960 --> 40:42.620] And it was wardrobe commentary too. [40:42.740 --> 40:44.760] They commented on his bohemian dress style. [40:45.400 --> 40:46.380] I don't know. [40:46.480 --> 40:49.540] I haven't seen that many photos of him, but I never really thought it was bohemian. [40:49.660 --> 40:51.980] I thought it was more utilitarian. [40:52.280 --> 40:56.920] You know, the hunting jacket, the boots, the pipe, the cap, the scarf. [40:57.500 --> 41:04.060] Well, you know, bohemian style has changed since then, so we may not recognize it as bohemian today. [41:05.060 --> 41:11.880] but I also have this story here from Germany, and there's a debate about computer spying. [41:12.700 --> 41:28.680] Apparently, the German security services, which I don't remember what they're called, but anyway, what they're doing is they're emailing Trojans to people in an attempt to find out what they're doing. [41:29.460 --> 41:36.920] They assure us that this is only going to be used for real, really bad criminals. [41:38.460 --> 41:39.780] Terror suspects specifically. [41:40.000 --> 41:43.780] Now, I was just looking at this article and I found the most interesting quote to be in the back. [41:45.680 --> 41:53.740] Once it has been spotted, it would be child's play for suspects to send investigators false evidence and put them off the sentence, says Frank Rosengart of the Chaos Computer Club. [41:53.900 --> 42:01.280] Now, of course, this is the same Chaos Computer Club that puts on all the conferences and camps that we talked about and that a lot of the guys here just came back from. [42:01.480 --> 42:03.400] Yeah, they're really amazing, the CCC. [42:03.640 --> 42:11.260] They get quoted and this is Der Spiegel, the article that we have here, which is a really mainstream, well-respected German publication. [42:11.540 --> 42:18.480] And they quote the CCC as the experts in this sort of Trojan news, which I think is really exciting. [42:18.640 --> 42:27.840] They seem to be really on the forefront of a lot of political issues that are coming up in Germany with regards to privacy and technology. [42:28.560 --> 42:32.560] That's the equivalent of Time Magazine quoting us as a similar expert. [42:32.880 --> 42:34.420] And I have to throw this in. [42:34.440 --> 42:35.540] I really just can't resist. [42:36.120 --> 42:40.060] But I'll tell you, they're emailing Trojans to see what people would do. [42:40.120 --> 42:42.100] I know what I would do if I got a Trojan in the mail. [42:43.420 --> 42:44.440] Anyway, let's go on. [42:44.620 --> 42:46.060] You know, that's not very helpful. [42:46.300 --> 42:47.940] I know, but I couldn't resist that. [42:47.980 --> 42:50.720] It did get a laugh, and I'm sure people are chuckling at home. [42:51.600 --> 42:57.520] Well, anyway, so an interesting part is sort of a reverse hacking of this sort of thing. [42:57.520 --> 43:07.760] If you know that you're a terror target now, or a terror suspect, that is, you can expect to get one of these in your inbox, right, and then just send misleading data. [43:08.080 --> 43:11.440] So it is pretty interesting that this stuff actually doesn't work now that it's public. [43:11.680 --> 43:13.660] All right, do you have the right sim this time, Emmanuel? [43:14.160 --> 43:24.620] No, I had the right sim before, but what you have to understand is right now I'm making my call, I think, over VoIP, and to do that I have to dial 13100 first. [43:25.160 --> 43:34.640] I didn't remember what the code was, so I had to call somebody in New York who had already been to Malaysia and ask them what the code was by calling them with the more expensive method. [43:35.020 --> 43:37.380] But now I'm on the eight-cent-a-minute method. [43:38.180 --> 43:41.760] Well, I think you'll find it well worth it to talk to people like us. [43:42.680 --> 43:47.920] Yeah, definitely, but I'm still mystified as to why you guys can't make a call to a toll-free number in New York. [43:48.120 --> 43:50.000] Believe me, I'm as mystified as anyone. [43:50.560 --> 43:56.920] All right, well, I suggest you keep trying, that way we can get Phiber back on as well because it's kind of silly not to be able to make that first link. [43:58.440 --> 44:01.440] Well, you could call him from your phone. [44:01.520 --> 44:03.460] I can't call him from my cell phone. [44:04.340 --> 44:04.940] Why not? [44:05.760 --> 44:08.960] My cell phone can't do three-way, and especially not to a room number. [44:09.180 --> 44:09.520] All right. [44:12.060 --> 44:14.240] So, I'm sorry about all the technical problems. [44:14.560 --> 44:18.680] We're having more phone problems this week than I think we had in a very long time. [44:19.100 --> 44:20.680] Yeah, it's a comedy of errors. [44:21.300 --> 44:22.780] We're making up for past time. [44:23.300 --> 44:24.880] Yeah, that's good. [44:25.380 --> 44:29.560] So, please keep trying because I'm not sure how long this symbol will hold out. [44:30.820 --> 44:34.880] But, basically, we have other stories to cover as well. [44:34.880 --> 44:38.100] I understand the Chinese have been involved in hacking into the Pentagon. [44:38.360 --> 44:39.520] Have you guys covered that story yet? [44:39.740 --> 44:40.560] No, we haven't. [44:40.680 --> 44:50.360] There have been reports that a computer in the office of Mr. Gates, the Secretary of Defense, has actually been targeted and penetrated. [44:51.360 --> 44:57.580] I haven't heard all the details, though, and it seems like this might not be a tremendously important computer. [44:58.640 --> 45:01.440] Well, the Chinese are denying it. [45:01.600 --> 45:04.360] They're saying that they have nothing to do with it. [45:04.440 --> 45:16.900] In fact, I know, Bernie, you like this quote particularly, the Chinese government has always opposed any internet wrecking crime, including hacking, and cracked down on it according to the law. [45:16.900 --> 45:18.520] That's from the foreign ministry. [45:18.820 --> 45:19.880] What does that even mean? [45:21.120 --> 45:23.960] I don't know, but it's kind of... [45:23.960 --> 45:25.820] It sounds kind of ominous, doesn't it? [45:28.060 --> 45:29.280] Internet wrecking. [45:29.940 --> 45:34.960] Internet wrecking crime, not just, you know, casual internet wrecking, but internet wrecking crime. [45:35.400 --> 45:36.980] Well, it wrecks the whole internet. [45:37.180 --> 45:38.100] It wrecks it for all of us. [45:38.200 --> 45:45.360] Now, how can a government deny with any certainty that anyone in its country or within its jurisdiction has not tried this? [45:45.440 --> 45:47.880] I mean, how do they know that nobody's attempted this? [45:48.060 --> 45:49.640] It's internet wrecking crime. [45:50.300 --> 45:56.280] They're being accused of the military of China as being accused of hacking the Pentagon's computer network over the summer. [45:56.660 --> 46:01.060] So I imagine that they feel they can speak for their military and saying that nobody did that. [46:02.540 --> 46:14.300] The German military has claimed, or the German government rather, has claimed, for some aspect, some part of the German government has claimed that the Chinese have tried to hack into their military computers as well. [46:14.740 --> 46:18.780] And I believe that the Chinese government has denied that also. [46:20.860 --> 46:29.440] Maybe they should send the Chinese government a Trojan to find out if they're hacking into the German internet wrecking whatever. [46:30.200 --> 46:31.680] A different size Trojan. [46:32.100 --> 46:32.520] Maybe. [46:33.700 --> 46:34.340] Maybe. [46:35.320 --> 46:37.640] Speaking of... Go ahead, Jim. [46:37.800 --> 46:43.520] Speaking of Chinese, there's a Chinese dissident and his wife who are suing Yahoo in this country. [46:44.000 --> 46:52.120] Yahoo attempted... because essentially Yahoo gave up their address to the Chinese government when they asked who posted these nasty, nasty things. [46:52.840 --> 46:59.160] And they attempted... Yahoo attempted to have the case thrown out of court, but the judge denied it. [46:59.340 --> 47:01.000] So that's going forward. [47:04.220 --> 47:04.840] Go ahead. [47:05.700 --> 47:07.040] No, that's all I have on that. [47:07.280 --> 47:07.680] I'm sorry. [47:08.640 --> 47:12.960] I heard also that... this is kind of an unrelated story... [47:12.960 --> 47:18.000] that the time of day is being disconnected in California. [47:19.060 --> 47:35.200] AT&T, being the local phone company out there, sent out a note in customers' bills entitled Service Withdrawal, where it says, effective September 2007, time of day information service will be discontinued. [47:35.200 --> 47:49.660] Now, basically, what people in Southern California were able to do was dial 853-1212 and hear a woman's recorded voice state that, at the tone, Pacific Daylight Time will be, with the recording, automatically updated at 10-second intervals. [47:50.260 --> 47:52.460] Now, AT&T spokesman says times change. [47:52.580 --> 47:55.260] In today's world, there are just too many other ways to get this information. [47:55.360 --> 47:57.420] You can look at your cell phone or your computer. [47:57.420 --> 48:00.340] You no longer have to pick up the telephone. [48:01.320 --> 48:05.840] And they're saying that in California, their equipment has gotten old. [48:06.020 --> 48:08.020] It's reached the end of its lifespan. [48:09.520 --> 48:15.440] And I'm seeing excuses about saving money by not having this particular service. [48:15.600 --> 48:21.960] How much could it possibly cost to have a recording just repeat over and over again, where people call into it? [48:21.960 --> 48:24.500] And how hard is it to maintain something like that? [48:24.680 --> 48:29.220] It really seems to me like this is something that could easily be replaced by almost anybody. [48:29.460 --> 48:33.140] You know, they say that this service is not very much needed. [48:33.140 --> 48:36.920] But I was also reading another article in the San Francisco Chronicle. [48:37.180 --> 48:41.880] And San Francisco has recently implemented a 3-1-1 service like they have in New York. [48:41.980 --> 48:46.120] And apparently, one of the most popular questions that they get asked is what time it is. [48:46.220 --> 48:48.900] So there is a demand to know by telephone the time. [48:50.160 --> 48:50.640] Absolutely. [48:50.640 --> 48:50.720] Absolutely. [48:52.580 --> 48:54.760] Also, another story out of China. [48:54.920 --> 48:58.120] I don't know if you guys talked about this while we were disconnected. [48:58.340 --> 49:10.340] But supposedly, anime cops are going to be showing up on computer screens every half hour and reminding people using computers to stay away from illegal Internet content. [49:10.460 --> 49:11.200] You guys hear about this? [49:11.400 --> 49:12.660] I actually read that article. [49:12.780 --> 49:13.940] It's pretty interesting now. [49:14.360 --> 49:22.880] From my understanding of the article, it was kind of something that they were embedding into web pages, possibly through a proxy that they require their users to go through. [49:23.020 --> 49:24.260] But it was a pretty interesting thing. [49:24.380 --> 49:28.740] It's just like little animated cops that come and sort of turn to you and then kind of walk away. [49:28.880 --> 49:30.860] It was, you know, very, very strange. [49:32.900 --> 49:37.640] Is this only on computers that you're using at an Internet kiosk or something? [49:37.640 --> 49:40.440] Or is it on your laptop as well? [49:41.140 --> 49:42.480] I couldn't really tell. [49:42.600 --> 49:48.160] But from my understanding, initially, it was probably some kind of JavaScript that they were embedding into web pages. [49:48.320 --> 49:55.120] But I don't know if it was an actual application or if it was actually JavaScript embedded into web pages or something else. [49:55.120 --> 49:56.260] But that's what it looked like to me. [49:57.040 --> 49:57.560] Okay. [49:57.560 --> 50:01.300] I'm being told that our toll-free gateway is what is down. [50:01.320 --> 50:03.900] And that's why we cannot make the connection. [50:04.180 --> 50:06.840] And unfortunately, it won't be able to connect to fiber optic again. [50:07.860 --> 50:11.780] So we have more than one data channel going to your location. [50:13.100 --> 50:14.400] More than one data channel. [50:14.460 --> 50:14.680] Explain. [50:15.240 --> 50:17.940] Well, I'm assuming you got that message from the studio. [50:18.380 --> 50:20.120] Oh, I'm using instant messaging. [50:20.520 --> 50:21.720] I'm connected online. [50:21.720 --> 50:21.840] It's fine. [50:22.000 --> 50:24.760] It's pretty easy to be connected here in Kuala Lumpur. [50:24.940 --> 50:27.440] So I'm on the Internet and I'm talking to people. [50:27.660 --> 50:34.280] But unfortunately, you guys can't make a phone call from service that we're supposed to use for just such these occasions. [50:34.280 --> 50:36.220] We're getting a fast busy whenever we try calling it. [50:36.400 --> 50:46.780] It's possible there was some kind of crisis in the local area that shut something down and people should come running into the studio to tell us that a building has collapsed or something. [50:46.960 --> 50:49.020] But I think it's just that telephones don't work. [50:49.480 --> 50:50.920] Wait, are you saying that that's what happened? [50:50.920 --> 50:52.800] No, I'm thinking that's not what happened. [50:52.980 --> 50:55.640] But, you know, we're having a lot of trouble with the phones today. [50:56.040 --> 50:57.140] Look at the bright side. [50:57.300 --> 50:59.080] Have people been running in telling you that things are collapsing? [50:59.100 --> 51:00.060] No, nothing's collapsing. [51:00.460 --> 51:01.680] Look at the bright side, though. [51:02.000 --> 51:06.140] Phiber's keynote speech will be so much better because he has more time to work on it. [51:06.740 --> 51:08.900] You know, I really... he's waiting in his room. [51:08.980 --> 51:11.620] So I really should call him to let him know that we won't be able to call him. [51:13.680 --> 51:14.680] You're on his cell phone. [51:14.800 --> 51:16.400] Can't you walk to his room or something? [51:16.700 --> 51:18.360] No, actually, and this is interesting, too. [51:18.360 --> 51:20.340] I'm on one floor and he's on another. [51:20.580 --> 51:28.500] And the way this hotel works, when you get on an elevator, you plug your hotel key into the elevator and push your floor button. [51:28.760 --> 51:30.280] I cannot go to his floor. [51:30.360 --> 51:31.420] He cannot go to my floor. [51:31.580 --> 51:33.540] It's like a segregated system. [51:33.760 --> 51:34.380] Oh, my. [51:34.600 --> 51:35.120] There's no stereo. [51:35.120 --> 51:38.520] Yeah, so there's no way I can get to him other than calling him. [51:39.460 --> 51:40.980] Well, thank God that's everyone involved. [51:41.020 --> 51:42.180] Or meeting on a neutral floor. [51:42.720 --> 51:45.320] So you're saying there's a fire you have to get in the elevator? [51:46.620 --> 51:47.680] No, I didn't say that. [51:47.680 --> 51:49.980] I said that I can't get to his floor with the card. [51:51.240 --> 51:53.260] I don't know how to get out of the building in case of a fire. [51:53.440 --> 51:54.240] I guess it's a staircase. [51:54.640 --> 51:55.460] Take the stairs. [51:56.260 --> 51:57.960] Well, thanks for giving me something else to worry about. [51:57.960 --> 51:59.540] Could you get to him via the stairs? [52:00.160 --> 52:01.000] Well, no. [52:01.480 --> 52:03.780] I guess I could if I knew where the stairs were. [52:04.020 --> 52:08.200] Maybe the stairs are alarmed or the doors only open into the stairwell. [52:08.340 --> 52:14.020] You can't open them from the stairwell into the building like at the BAI building is the way it works. [52:14.140 --> 52:15.280] I'm pretty alarmed myself. [52:15.480 --> 52:16.140] Let's come home and talk. [52:16.640 --> 52:18.880] Let's maybe take some listener phone calls. [52:19.220 --> 52:21.520] And hopefully that won't be too confusing. [52:22.460 --> 52:22.940] All right. [52:22.940 --> 52:24.320] We should give the telephone number. [52:24.420 --> 52:25.680] I'll try and get it right this week. [52:25.820 --> 52:28.240] It's 212-209-2900. [52:28.240 --> 52:29.860] And you did get it right this week. [52:29.900 --> 52:30.840] See, I'm good for something. [52:32.160 --> 52:34.400] And we're getting a couple calls on the line. [52:34.700 --> 52:35.400] Anything you want to add? [52:35.480 --> 52:36.060] Is it this week now? [52:36.880 --> 52:38.060] It's this week now. [52:38.240 --> 52:40.420] It's separate days here and there, but that'll change. [52:40.760 --> 52:41.880] I'm so confused. [52:42.580 --> 52:43.800] You're confusing me now. [52:43.920 --> 52:46.340] Let's take this call right here. [52:47.400 --> 52:48.440] Hello, you're on the air. [52:49.660 --> 52:51.040] Turn down your radio, please. [52:51.420 --> 52:51.740] I did. [52:52.700 --> 52:53.060] Okay. [52:53.500 --> 52:53.900] Hello? [52:54.180 --> 52:54.640] Oh, yes. [52:54.840 --> 52:55.660] What's on your mind? [52:55.860 --> 52:57.120] Oh, thanks for taking my call. [52:57.120 --> 53:03.300] On my mind is this etiquette between countries that they should not hack each other. [53:03.440 --> 53:04.260] Is there such a thing? [53:04.900 --> 53:12.480] I mean, it's a very good gentleman's agreement that one country will not hack the other. [53:12.680 --> 53:18.360] I mean, that's one comment that I want to, if you guys could clarify. [53:18.360 --> 53:19.540] What is the protocol? [53:20.160 --> 53:21.780] Thou shall not hack? [53:22.960 --> 53:35.500] I would think it's an extension of the traditional protocol among secret spy services, which is essentially you don't go and shoot the other guy's spies up because it just, you know, invites it back to you. [53:35.820 --> 53:38.360] Everything is done subtly if it's officially done. [53:38.360 --> 53:46.080] But generally, when hacking occurs one country to another, it tends to be a grassroots movement, such as Russia versus Estonia a few months ago. [53:47.020 --> 53:48.320] Any other questions? [53:48.480 --> 53:49.860] Yes, I have one other question. [53:49.980 --> 54:18.500] Since you're talking about MI5 intelligence or lack of intelligence, whatever, however you want to define it, last week's Athens News had an interesting article how, during the Greek Junta days, one of their own MI5 person got killed by their own MI5 because they didn't know that they thought she was a mole talking to the Russians. [54:18.640 --> 54:22.260] Well, actually, she was one like them, but they didn't know each other. [54:22.260 --> 54:27.680] So, it's interesting how MI5 is lacking at times. [54:28.840 --> 54:29.960] Everybody makes mistakes. [54:30.540 --> 54:35.660] Well, we did that with George Polk and Greece during the Civil War there. [54:35.760 --> 54:36.240] Yep, yep. [54:36.360 --> 54:37.080] I remember that. [54:37.280 --> 54:39.620] Well, I wasn't born yet, but I remember the story. [54:40.000 --> 54:46.440] So, anyway, I just wanted to put that down about, since you guys were talking about MI5 intelligence or lack thereof. [54:47.260 --> 54:47.700] Okay. [54:47.840 --> 54:48.580] Well, thanks for the call. [54:49.840 --> 55:07.260] Can I just point out that when I go to refill this particular card later on, down to a 7-Eleven, and I'll simply go to them and I'll say, put 10 ringgits, ringgits is the currency here, it's 3.5 to the dollar, put 10 ringgits on a Cellcom chip, a Cellcom SIM, [55:07.440 --> 55:19.460] and what they'll do is they'll print out a little receipt from a cash register, hand it to me, and then I'll dial a number that's on there, enter a 16-digit code, and magically my phone will have more value on it. [55:20.360 --> 55:21.020] That's cool. [55:21.280 --> 55:24.140] It's very similar to what they do with the prepaid wireless services here. [55:25.280 --> 55:25.460] Mm-hmm. [55:26.600 --> 55:29.320] And, yeah, I think all around the world that's how it works. [55:29.980 --> 55:32.020] Well, I don't know if it's as cheap as it is here. [55:32.300 --> 55:33.200] Maybe not that. [55:33.420 --> 55:33.900] What did you say? [55:33.980 --> 55:34.660] Eight cents a minute? [55:35.060 --> 55:35.220] Eight cents a minute to the states. [55:35.220 --> 55:35.880] To call the states. [55:37.160 --> 55:37.560] Wow. [55:38.360 --> 55:40.400] Oh, but only if you use a special prefix. [55:41.540 --> 55:42.060] Oh, yeah. [55:42.180 --> 55:44.200] If you're out plus one, you're going to pay a lot. [55:44.380 --> 55:48.280] But can you guys tell the difference between sound quality from when I called you the first time? [55:48.660 --> 55:49.280] Not really. [55:49.400 --> 55:50.300] I wasn't paying attention. [55:50.500 --> 55:52.580] You sound a lot less panicked about the cost. [55:53.820 --> 55:54.220] Yeah. [55:55.140 --> 55:55.680] All right. [55:56.740 --> 55:58.860] We're running out of time here. [55:59.580 --> 56:02.220] Is there anything else you wanted us to know? [56:03.460 --> 56:03.860] No. [56:03.860 --> 56:08.740] Just, I guess, Fiverr and I will now work on our keynotes, which we'll have to give in a couple of hours. [56:09.720 --> 56:11.940] It's another day here in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia. [56:12.120 --> 56:13.460] So I guess we have that on you. [56:13.540 --> 56:15.900] We have a whole day ahead of us, whereas your day is winding down. [56:17.040 --> 56:22.540] And I'll be back in New York next week, assuming that we don't get too confused with the 24-hour airplane flight. [56:22.880 --> 56:23.240] Emmanuel? [56:24.140 --> 56:24.720] Yes, Bernie. [56:24.720 --> 56:40.540] I wanted to ask, is there a website that our listeners can find information out about the Hack in the Box conference and maybe transcripts or recordings of the proceedings? [56:41.720 --> 56:42.400] Yes. [56:42.580 --> 56:46.920] Well, the website is www.hackinthebox.org. [56:47.620 --> 56:54.240] And there you'll find a history of the conference as well as a program as to what exactly is happening here. [56:54.960 --> 56:55.400] Okay. [56:57.640 --> 56:59.520] Well, we'll see you next week. [56:59.880 --> 57:03.260] Don't forget, this Friday, meetings for 2600 all around the world. [57:04.000 --> 57:05.420] Not in Malaysia, though. [57:05.480 --> 57:07.060] There's none in Kuala Lumpur that I can see. [57:07.180 --> 57:08.120] Maybe I'll try to start one. [57:09.440 --> 57:09.960] All right. [57:10.140 --> 57:10.760] Thank you. [57:10.920 --> 57:14.460] And thanks especially to Kamu for engineering on such short notice.