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[00:09.900 --> 00:13.380]  This newscast is produced by Monica Lopez and Taina Gisi.
[00:13.640 --> 00:17.220]  Our headlines editor is Shannon Young, and our Washington, D.C.
[00:17.340 --> 00:18.760]  editor is Leanne Caldwell.
[00:19.020 --> 00:25.640]  Our technical production team at KPFA in Berkeley includes Antonio Ortiz, Puck Lowe, and Oscar Hernandez.
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[00:32.550 --> 00:35.390]  And this is Radio Station W, BAI New York.
[00:35.510 --> 00:36.550]  The time is 7.01.
[00:36.890 --> 00:37.850]  Time for Off the Hook.
[00:43.090 --> 00:47.550]  The telephone keeps ringing, so I ripped it off the wall.
[00:48.530 --> 00:50.510]  I cut myself while shaving.
[00:51.030 --> 00:53.090]  Now I can't make a cough.
[00:53.830 --> 00:55.830]  We couldn't get much worse.
[00:56.490 --> 00:58.370]  But if they could, they would.
[00:58.650 --> 01:01.290]  Bum-dilly-bum for the best to speak the worst.
[01:01.910 --> 01:03.790]  I hope that's understood.
[01:03.990 --> 01:04.810]  Bum-dilly-bum!
[01:38.730 --> 01:39.850]  And very good evening to everybody.
[01:39.950 --> 01:41.450]  The program is Off the Hook.
[01:41.870 --> 01:44.770]  Emmanuel Goldstein here with you on this Wednesday evening.
[01:45.170 --> 01:47.210]  Joined this week by Mike.
[01:47.570 --> 01:47.890]  Hi.
[01:48.630 --> 01:49.550]  And Redbird.
[01:49.730 --> 01:50.190]  Good evening.
[01:50.730 --> 01:52.150]  Down in Philadelphia is Bernie S.
[01:52.730 --> 01:53.750]  Greetings from Philadelphia.
[01:54.070 --> 01:55.410]  On the other side of the room is Not Kevin.
[01:55.670 --> 01:55.950]  Hello.
[01:56.250 --> 01:56.730]  Oh, wait a minute.
[01:57.110 --> 01:58.010]  Also, no microphone.
[01:58.330 --> 01:59.250]  Wait, what color is that?
[01:59.390 --> 02:00.490]  We don't want to hear him anyway.
[02:00.610 --> 02:00.990]  No, wait a minute.
[02:01.450 --> 02:02.210]  I have you up.
[02:02.270 --> 02:02.690]  Say that again.
[02:02.930 --> 02:03.130]  Hello.
[02:03.270 --> 02:04.190]  No, it's not working.
[02:04.750 --> 02:05.550]  Let me try this one.
[02:05.650 --> 02:05.950]  Try now.
[02:06.230 --> 02:06.490]  Hello.
[02:06.650 --> 02:06.850]  No.
[02:07.530 --> 02:08.530]  Something's not plugged in.
[02:08.530 --> 02:08.970]  I'm sorry.
[02:09.070 --> 02:09.750]  I don't know what to tell you.
[02:10.890 --> 02:20.890]  Well, as Not Kevin figures out how to get his voice back, let me introduce our special guest of the night, returning to the New York City airwaves from Finland, Redhack.
[02:21.250 --> 02:21.650]  Hey.
[02:21.930 --> 02:22.950]  And your microphone is working.
[02:23.390 --> 02:23.790]  Fantastic.
[02:24.050 --> 02:24.250]  Great.
[02:24.370 --> 02:25.850]  You two might want to share or something.
[02:25.950 --> 02:26.270]  I don't know.
[02:26.450 --> 02:27.290]  So welcome back.
[02:27.370 --> 02:27.690]  Welcome back.
[02:27.790 --> 02:34.590]  The last time we heard from you, we were playing that theme to While the Army Sleeps, and I think you were sleeping and we weren't able to reach you.
[02:34.590 --> 02:39.950]  Apparently, I woke up a lot of people while I was talking on the cell phone in the middle of the night.
[02:40.030 --> 02:41.790]  Well, you do have a loud talking voice.
[02:42.110 --> 02:44.570]  Well, you know, I went behind a truck, but yeah.
[02:45.330 --> 02:46.510]  Apparently, it's still carried.
[02:46.630 --> 02:47.590]  It was quiet there.
[02:47.770 --> 02:57.110]  So you, being, I guess, a half-Finnish citizen, you decided many years ago to serve a period of time in the Finnish Army.
[02:57.210 --> 02:57.410]  Right.
[02:57.730 --> 02:59.890]  And now you're back from that adventure.
[02:59.890 --> 03:00.170]  Now I'm done.
[03:00.310 --> 03:00.570]  Adventure.
[03:00.890 --> 03:01.410]  Do you have any regrets?
[03:01.590 --> 03:02.210]  270 days.
[03:02.370 --> 03:03.150]  270 days.
[03:03.310 --> 03:03.430]  Okay.
[03:03.490 --> 03:04.450]  Almost a year.
[03:04.590 --> 03:04.910]  Yeah.
[03:05.230 --> 03:06.490]  Well, three-quarters of a year.
[03:06.530 --> 03:07.430]  That's a long time.
[03:07.730 --> 03:08.270]  It is.
[03:08.410 --> 03:09.710]  And how does it feel to be back in the States?
[03:10.490 --> 03:11.010]  It's fine.
[03:11.190 --> 03:11.310]  Yeah?
[03:11.650 --> 03:11.770]  Yeah.
[03:11.850 --> 03:12.270]  Just fine?
[03:12.390 --> 03:16.710]  I miss some of the food over there, but then again, I get to eat some of the food over here that I was missing, so...
[03:16.710 --> 03:31.450]  Well, I noticed, I was talking to you a bit over on AIM and various other methods of communication, and you seem to be a little bit less enthusiastic about being in Finland as the months went by, kind of maybe going a little stir-crazy.
[03:31.590 --> 03:32.110]  Is that true?
[03:32.870 --> 03:33.170]  No.
[03:33.510 --> 03:35.050]  I mean, Finland's a great country.
[03:35.190 --> 03:39.530]  I liked it a lot while I was there, and I could definitely go back there, but I don't know.
[03:39.590 --> 03:43.330]  I just missed some things and got homesick, I guess.
[03:43.550 --> 03:43.710]  Yeah.
[03:44.410 --> 03:44.710]  But...
[03:44.710 --> 03:46.010]  Well, hopefully you'll be here for a while.
[03:46.130 --> 03:46.590]  Hopefully they...
[03:46.590 --> 03:47.410]  I don't want to diss Finland.
[03:47.550 --> 03:48.250]  It's a great place.
[03:48.330 --> 03:49.310]  Finland is a great place.
[03:49.350 --> 03:52.970]  I've been there a couple of times, and it's... of course, I've never served in the Armed Forces over there.
[03:53.450 --> 03:55.550]  Yeah, I mean, that gets kind of on your nerves.
[03:56.030 --> 04:01.730]  Well, I think, you know, maybe if you want a true flavor of the country that you visit, you should serve in the Armed Forces just to sort of understand what it's all about.
[04:01.850 --> 04:02.590]  I wouldn't recommend it, but...
[04:02.590 --> 04:06.550]  Well, maybe just for a couple of days, because who has the time to actually go through the whole boot camp routine?
[04:07.130 --> 04:10.450]  But you sort of see another part of the country serving in the Armed Forces.
[04:10.550 --> 04:12.810]  Yeah, by walking around a lot with, you know, all your equipment on.
[04:12.810 --> 04:17.810]  When I was in North Korea, if I had served in the Armed Forces while I was there, I guarantee you I'd have some interesting stories to tell tonight.
[04:18.270 --> 04:18.550]  Yeah.
[04:18.610 --> 04:19.370]  Unfortunately, I don't have any.
[04:19.410 --> 04:19.990]  If the U.S.
[04:20.090 --> 04:22.070]  government would let you back in to tell them.
[04:22.150 --> 04:24.530]  Yeah, they always seem to be a little cranky about things like that, unfortunately.
[04:24.570 --> 04:25.710]  But that's just the way it is.
[04:26.650 --> 04:28.270]  Okay, well, again, RedHack, welcome back.
[04:28.350 --> 04:32.030]  And hopefully you're in New York for a time, a good long time.
[04:32.550 --> 04:36.090]  You don't get sucked out the California something for some dot-com thing.
[04:36.270 --> 04:36.490]  Right.
[04:36.710 --> 04:36.870]  Yeah.
[04:37.890 --> 04:39.050]  Did you get your microphone working on, Kevin?
[04:39.190 --> 04:39.470]  I don't know.
[04:39.510 --> 04:39.710]  Did I?
[04:39.830 --> 04:40.070]  Yeah, you did.
[04:40.170 --> 04:40.330]  You did.
[04:40.410 --> 04:40.490]  All right.
[04:40.590 --> 04:40.850]  Okay.
[04:41.090 --> 04:42.490]  Doesn't it feel good to figure it out yourself?
[04:42.690 --> 04:43.310]  Feels great.
[04:43.470 --> 04:43.730]  All right.
[04:43.730 --> 04:43.730]  All right.
[04:44.030 --> 04:47.810]  Well, we're all back, except for RedHack, who's back from Finland, but we're all back from Cleveland.
[04:48.050 --> 04:50.810]  We all went to Nauticon over the weekend.
[04:51.190 --> 04:52.230]  And what do you guys think?
[04:52.830 --> 04:55.290]  I think Finland sounds a lot more exciting than Cleveland.
[04:56.270 --> 04:59.610]  Well, I don't want to diss Cleveland too much, because I did that last night on my other show.
[05:00.670 --> 05:02.710]  But we were all joking about it when we were there.
[05:02.710 --> 05:05.850]  I think Mike's term was that it's a parody city, which I have to agree with.
[05:05.930 --> 05:06.430]  Were we joking?
[05:06.570 --> 05:07.290]  I didn't think we were joking.
[05:07.330 --> 05:08.130]  Yeah, I wasn't joking.
[05:08.290 --> 05:10.270]  Yeah, I think we were pretty damn serious about that.
[05:10.850 --> 05:14.150]  But Bernie, I haven't heard your feelings about Cleveland.
[05:14.450 --> 05:15.710]  So why don't we start with you?
[05:16.750 --> 05:20.450]  Well, I don't know if we were in the wrong section of town, but it looked like we were in the middle of the city.
[05:20.810 --> 05:31.230]  And out one of the hotel windows, where a lot of people were hanging out one night on a Saturday night, I'm looking out over the main drag of Cleveland, which is a six-lane highway.
[05:31.770 --> 05:32.490]  Three lanes each way.
[05:32.670 --> 05:36.030]  And there's no cars on it at midnight on a Saturday night.
[05:36.190 --> 05:37.190]  It's like Pyongyang.
[05:37.330 --> 05:37.770]  It really is.
[05:37.850 --> 05:40.990]  You look out the window at the highways in North Korea and there's nobody on them.
[05:41.370 --> 05:43.730]  Cleveland and Pyongyang, identical, really.
[05:44.070 --> 05:44.470]  Spooky.
[05:44.710 --> 05:44.790]  Yeah.
[05:45.470 --> 05:53.070]  Now, Bernie, the part of town that we were in, and I guess this should have been a clue to us that we were in a dead part of town, it's called downtown.
[05:53.930 --> 05:57.570]  And apparently that's the part you want to avoid because that's where nobody is.
[05:57.710 --> 05:59.910]  Although, to be honest, we wandered around.
[06:00.150 --> 06:04.090]  Mike and I actually took a long bus ride to try and get away from the deadness.
[06:04.530 --> 06:07.910]  And we didn't see a whole lot of people along that whole trip, did we?
[06:08.110 --> 06:09.170]  Not really that many.
[06:09.390 --> 06:09.590]  No.
[06:09.950 --> 06:11.130]  But we went to a cool place.
[06:11.290 --> 06:11.850]  It was nice.
[06:11.990 --> 06:14.070]  We went to the place where they have the 2600 meetings.
[06:14.190 --> 06:22.250]  Now, we didn't go during the 2600 meeting because everybody told us that the 2600 meeting wasn't happening because of the Nauticon conference, which was happening at the hotel.
[06:22.450 --> 06:26.190]  So they said it was happening in a room with a pool table instead, and nobody showed up.
[06:26.210 --> 06:29.350]  So I don't know if we were just having the wool pulled over our eyes or what.
[06:29.430 --> 06:36.250]  But we went to the coffee shop, the Arabica coffee shop where they have the 2600 meetings in Cleveland, and it was the coolest place in town.
[06:36.410 --> 06:37.110]  It really was.
[06:37.750 --> 06:43.750]  Inside of a minute, I was having an intelligent conversation with somebody, and people there seemed actually kind of cool to hang out with.
[06:43.870 --> 06:46.650]  Well, the coolest place in town was the Nauticon conference.
[06:46.810 --> 06:47.250]  Oh, of course.
[06:47.370 --> 06:48.690]  But that's not a permanent part of town.
[06:49.030 --> 06:50.270]  You see, that only comes once a year.
[06:50.370 --> 06:52.890]  Well, it's their great loss because it's not a whole lot else there.
[06:52.970 --> 06:53.050]  Yeah.
[06:53.150 --> 06:58.890]  You know, maybe if we could say to the Nauticon people, if you could just have the conference there every day, then the city would be salvageable.
[06:58.950 --> 07:04.450]  Because I don't want to diss somebody's city too badly because people there were perfectly nice and all that.
[07:04.570 --> 07:07.030]  I just think that there should be more going on.
[07:07.270 --> 07:09.590]  For instance, I was there at 930 on a Thursday.
[07:09.770 --> 07:10.750]  I could not find food anywhere.
[07:10.750 --> 07:16.370]  I had to take a taxi to a chain restaurant in order to find food, and that just should not be happening.
[07:16.510 --> 07:19.810]  Mike and I found a lot of drunk people on, what was it, West 6th Street?
[07:19.950 --> 07:21.150]  On Saturday night.
[07:21.230 --> 07:22.290]  You can't eat the drunk people.
[07:22.310 --> 07:26.570]  On the same street on Sunday night, I was still in Cleveland.
[07:26.910 --> 07:28.630]  There were like four people there.
[07:28.950 --> 07:29.150]  Oh, wow.
[07:29.290 --> 07:37.070]  So it's really... even the one street with people on it doesn't have people on it except on Saturday, maybe Friday.
[07:37.370 --> 07:38.210]  But enough about Cleveland.
[07:38.350 --> 07:43.450]  Although, you know, they have guitars in all the streets, it seems, because of the damn rock and roll hall of fame, which I didn't go to.
[07:43.670 --> 07:44.450]  Yes, go ahead, Bernie.
[07:44.850 --> 07:49.670]  I just wanted to mention that Nauticon was not the only conference going on that weekend in Cleveland.
[07:49.910 --> 07:50.550]  In that hotel.
[07:50.730 --> 07:51.510]  Yeah, that's true.
[07:51.630 --> 07:53.110]  Well, that was the only one going on in that hotel.
[07:53.190 --> 07:53.790]  No, it wasn't.
[07:54.030 --> 07:54.730]  It was not.
[07:54.790 --> 07:55.370]  There were the cops.
[07:55.390 --> 07:56.250]  The cops were there, too.
[07:56.250 --> 07:56.970]  Oh, that's right.
[07:57.110 --> 07:58.690]  Well, they were just there to play a football game.
[07:58.790 --> 07:59.110]  And who else?
[07:59.250 --> 08:00.110]  The Chicago Police Department.
[08:00.110 --> 08:02.050]  The Chicago Police Department was there to play a football game.
[08:02.150 --> 08:04.350]  And also the daughters of Job were there.
[08:04.490 --> 08:05.130]  The daughters of Job.
[08:05.230 --> 08:07.570]  And for some reason, we wound up taking registrations for them.
[08:07.750 --> 08:10.410]  A bunch of my friends and me were just sitting behind a table.
[08:10.790 --> 08:15.010]  Apparently, the daughters of Job or whatever had left the table there and it just said registration.
[08:15.390 --> 08:19.470]  And so we were sitting there and people were coming up to us asking if we were actually taking registrations.
[08:19.890 --> 08:24.430]  There was also a women's empowerment conference going on at another hotel that weekend.
[08:24.430 --> 08:30.310]  And several of the women from there came over to the Nauticon Hotel to hang out, because apparently it was more fun.
[08:30.870 --> 08:31.470]  Well, it was.
[08:31.530 --> 08:32.030]  It was fun.
[08:32.130 --> 08:35.910]  And a lot of interesting people to talk to and hang out with and just sort of wander about.
[08:35.910 --> 08:39.530]  Of course, we all wound up on the roof at some point, because that's what you do with these things.
[08:39.670 --> 08:41.150]  And then there was a dance competition, too.
[08:41.310 --> 08:41.950]  I missed that.
[08:42.190 --> 08:45.670]  There was a dance competition at our hotel, the Crowne Plaza, I believe, right, Bernie?
[08:46.470 --> 08:47.150]  Oh, yes.
[08:47.850 --> 08:53.850]  Actually, that came in very handy, because when we checked into that other hotel, this wasn't the hotel where the conference was, because it was sold out.
[08:53.850 --> 09:06.430]  So I was able to reserve a room at a nearby hotel, the Crowne Plaza, by impersonating myself as being a government employee who was there for the Dance Masters Conference.
[09:07.190 --> 09:09.110]  You impersonated a government employee?
[09:09.430 --> 09:11.450]  Well, I just said I was, and that was it.
[09:11.470 --> 09:13.010]  I didn't have any insignia on it or anything.
[09:13.090 --> 09:14.690]  I didn't say which government, you know.
[09:14.870 --> 09:16.710]  So in any case...
[09:16.710 --> 09:18.450]  And now you're talking about it on the radio.
[09:18.710 --> 09:20.010]  Oh, hey, sue me.
[09:20.250 --> 09:21.510]  But I got a double-edged account.
[09:21.650 --> 09:22.430]  They might sue you.
[09:22.770 --> 09:27.010]  I was able to get a right... I actually did it with a wink and a nod with the guy behind the desk.
[09:27.050 --> 09:27.790]  He was cool with it.
[09:29.230 --> 09:32.170]  Maybe he just had a, you know, something in his eye, though.
[09:32.250 --> 09:33.010]  That's how it's possible.
[09:33.430 --> 09:38.090]  We got a rate comparable to what the Nauticon Hotel would have given us, had they had a room.
[09:38.210 --> 09:38.830]  So it all worked out.
[09:38.870 --> 09:40.150]  Now, wait, you were at the Crowne Plaza?
[09:40.710 --> 09:41.830]  Isn't that Holiday Inn?
[09:42.450 --> 09:44.850]  No, it's a very plush place.
[09:44.950 --> 09:49.670]  No, wait, I thought Crowne Plaza was part of Holiday Inn, because we were in the Holiday Inn Select, whatever that is.
[09:50.290 --> 09:51.810]  All these hotels are the same.
[09:52.210 --> 09:54.250]  No, my room was much nicer than one to the house.
[09:54.250 --> 09:55.450]  They were really nice rooms, yeah.
[09:55.690 --> 09:56.790]  They were good rooms.
[09:56.850 --> 09:58.410]  Even after you guys stayed in it, huh?
[09:59.610 --> 10:00.330]  Okay, fine.
[10:00.690 --> 10:02.290]  We should say something about Nauticon.
[10:02.290 --> 10:08.290]  Yes, let's do that, because we talked about the city, we talked about the hotels, we talked about all the other conferences going on.
[10:09.030 --> 10:12.090]  Now, Nauticon was a really cool gathering.
[10:12.290 --> 10:14.010]  It took place in Cleveland over the weekend.
[10:14.010 --> 10:14.930]  It's an annual thing.
[10:15.250 --> 10:16.510]  Does anybody know which one this was?
[10:16.670 --> 10:17.090]  This is number...
[10:17.090 --> 10:17.270]  Fifth.
[10:17.430 --> 10:17.610]  Fifth.
[10:17.890 --> 10:18.290]  Number five.
[10:19.190 --> 10:22.610]  Okay, and I guess attendance of about, what, 400 people or so?
[10:22.730 --> 10:24.670]  It was between 300 and 400, if I remember correctly.
[10:24.850 --> 10:27.790]  But it was neat, because it was a lot more of, I guess, a social conference.
[10:27.790 --> 10:29.470]  I like that size of a crowd.
[10:29.570 --> 10:31.870]  If you get above 1,000, it starts to get kind of crazy.
[10:32.370 --> 10:36.290]  This is a nice kind of intimate gathering, if you consider 300 or 400 people, intimate gathering.
[10:36.430 --> 10:43.650]  But you do get to talk to people and sort of relax a little bit and just kind of take in various panels and talks.
[10:43.770 --> 10:44.730]  And I saw some good panels there.
[10:44.850 --> 10:48.430]  The talks could be a lot more interactive, too, because the rooms are relatively small.
[10:49.370 --> 10:51.610]  And the speakers, if they do it properly...
[10:51.610 --> 10:52.830]  Okay, that microphone attack you too badly.
[10:52.970 --> 10:54.270]  You know, these things are so broken.
[10:54.430 --> 11:00.310]  Anyway, the speakers can talk back and forth with the audience and keep people awake, you know, and it's nice.
[11:00.530 --> 11:01.030]  Yeah, totally.
[11:01.030 --> 11:04.010]  And, well, what were some of your favorite panels?
[11:04.410 --> 11:06.810]  Anybody want to say what they liked?
[11:07.030 --> 11:24.250]  I enjoyed one presented by a woman from Canada who gave a talk about rural wireless data connectivity, where apparently in Canada, the Canadian government subsidizes rural wireless connectivity.
[11:24.250 --> 11:42.370]  So out in the boonies, where no local exchange carrier or phone company is going to run or internet service provider is going to run lines to your house, the government will pay some company who makes a bid to build a wireless infrastructure for the whole rural community.
[11:42.370 --> 11:49.270]  And then they let that company run it as a business after that at an agreed-upon, very low rate.
[11:49.490 --> 11:59.190]  So I think that's a fantastic idea, because I know people who live in rural America that have no internet connectivity at all, unless they want to make a long-distance phone call for a dial-up connection.
[11:59.250 --> 11:59.630]  It's crazy.
[11:59.630 --> 12:00.070]  Uh-huh.
[12:00.470 --> 12:05.590]  I saw a panel about the TSA, and this guy... this was incredible.
[12:05.950 --> 12:06.950]  This was one of my favorites.
[12:07.330 --> 12:09.890]  Well, I mean, we're hoping to get this guy to come to Hope as well.
[12:09.970 --> 12:11.690]  In fact, we're hoping to get a lot of these guys to come to Hope.
[12:12.350 --> 12:14.550]  But he basically attached a camera.
[12:14.750 --> 12:15.030]  Get this.
[12:15.090 --> 12:21.870]  He attached a camera to a bag that he checked in to an airport, and the camera was running the entire time.
[12:21.870 --> 12:31.730]  So you get to see, when he checks his bag in, you get to see what they do to it, the whole behind-the-scenes scenario that takes place.
[12:32.110 --> 12:38.170]  There's all kinds of little passageways and ramps, and you see people throwing the bags into the airplane.
[12:38.170 --> 12:39.950]  You see them taking them off the airplane.
[12:40.130 --> 12:47.390]  The whole trip, the whole trip, he had the camera running, and then, of course, he's reunited with his bag at the end and is able to show it to the audience.
[12:47.790 --> 12:48.610]  That's fascinating.
[12:48.770 --> 12:49.630]  It's incredible to see this.
[12:49.630 --> 12:52.750]  It's funny, because I think he said he took it on four trips up at that point.
[12:52.850 --> 12:57.830]  And it's kind of funny, because I guess he had gotten it working only recently, right?
[12:57.930 --> 13:06.050]  And he had days and days' worth of footage from these four trips, and he kind of edited it into a nice little presentation for the conference.
[13:06.370 --> 13:10.190]  And you got to see how badly the bags were treated, how they were thrown.
[13:10.290 --> 13:17.310]  You got to see the employees actually doing it up in the plane and behind the scenes, and you got to see all the carousels.
[13:17.510 --> 13:19.130]  It was kind of a neat thing.
[13:19.630 --> 13:33.050]  And I guess eventually his goal is to actually capture the TSA agents actually going through his stuff and, you know, see what they actually do, see how they actually treat your equipment and your personal belongings.
[13:33.190 --> 13:34.490]  See what they do when they find a running camera inside.
[13:34.530 --> 13:36.690]  You know, I'm looking forward to seeing that.
[13:36.850 --> 13:38.330]  So if we can get him at Hope and...
[13:38.330 --> 13:49.470]  Well, these days, these days with the microscopic technology that's at work, and if Steve Rumbum were here, he could probably tell us a lot more about this, but it might not even be possible to know that that's a camera.
[13:49.610 --> 13:52.970]  So it's kind of cool that we're watching them right back.
[13:53.210 --> 13:55.590]  You still have to have it recording to something, though.
[13:55.750 --> 14:00.890]  And generally, you know, even these small pinhole cameras, they're either transmitting somewhere or connected to...
[14:01.910 --> 14:03.930]  It was all non-volatile RAM.
[14:04.690 --> 14:06.510]  And it was only recording...
[14:06.510 --> 14:09.450]  It was very low-resolution videos, only 160 to 160 pixels.
[14:10.810 --> 14:16.050]  And it only was recording when there was some motion in the video frame.
[14:16.630 --> 14:20.510]  So just a few gigs of, like, USB...
[14:20.510 --> 14:24.490]  I don't know, it was just a compact flash card or something like that.
[14:25.050 --> 14:28.370]  He got many, many hours recorded on it, and it was great.
[14:28.370 --> 14:32.870]  Some of those scenes, you couldn't have framed better with a professional director.
[14:33.450 --> 14:36.970]  I mean, just the way this bag would land was beyond luck in some of those ways.
[14:37.010 --> 14:44.830]  You could see the whole row of these x-ray backscatter machines where the bags go through looking for stuff you're not supposed to have in your bags.
[14:44.890 --> 14:47.130]  You could see the inside of the airplane's cargo hold.
[14:47.290 --> 14:48.070]  Yeah, and you're right.
[14:48.190 --> 14:49.750]  The person was positioned just right.
[14:49.850 --> 14:51.450]  Their head was in the upper left of the frame.
[14:51.570 --> 14:54.270]  And then the bag they were throwing was in the bottom right.
[14:54.590 --> 14:56.350]  You know, a director could not have positioned that better.
[14:56.450 --> 14:58.150]  So sometimes it just works out.
[14:58.150 --> 15:01.230]  But a lot of the other times, though, of course, the bag is upside down or outside.
[15:01.250 --> 15:04.430]  So you kind of have to play with editing to get it to look just right.
[15:04.470 --> 15:05.610]  It does take a little bit of work.
[15:05.950 --> 15:10.970]  But I think when you just travel around a lot, you're going to get some really interesting things.
[15:11.090 --> 15:12.650]  And imagine if a lot of people start doing this.
[15:13.430 --> 15:14.730]  I didn't notice any...
[15:14.730 --> 15:20.870]  In any of those scenes, Emmanuel, I didn't notice a single scene where there was a sign that said, no cameras back here.
[15:21.310 --> 15:26.730]  Well, the odds of getting that into frame would be kind of high.
[15:26.730 --> 15:28.770]  Maybe he edited something like that out.
[15:28.790 --> 15:33.630]  On that subject, though, I know, Bernie, you brought up a point about the legalities of this.
[15:34.110 --> 15:35.650]  Where do you think this stands?
[15:36.050 --> 15:45.190]  Well, in the U.S., in no state or under federal legislation either, is it a crime to record video.
[15:46.050 --> 15:52.590]  It is illegal to record audio in many states and under federal law without the knowledge of individuals.
[15:53.170 --> 15:58.230]  So fortunately, no audio was recorded, to my knowledge, in this presentation.
[15:58.490 --> 16:04.030]  But if anyone listening is going to try that, just do the video only to not get yourself in any hot water.
[16:04.230 --> 16:11.330]  So what you're saying is it's not legal to record someone's audio without their permission, but it is legal to record their video without their permission?
[16:11.590 --> 16:21.470]  Yes, although some states do have certain laws where you can't record covert video in a really private place, like a bathroom stall or something like that.
[16:21.490 --> 16:23.610]  But anywhere else is fine.
[16:23.810 --> 16:26.790]  Well, okay, but this brings up the question of security cameras.
[16:26.950 --> 16:29.430]  So, for instance, we have security cameras all over the building here.
[16:29.650 --> 16:31.330]  And they record audio as well as video.
[16:31.330 --> 16:32.250]  I'm pretty sure they do.
[16:32.250 --> 16:34.150]  And I know a lot don't if these ones don't.
[16:34.230 --> 16:35.990]  I mean, a lot of us do if these ones don't.
[16:36.510 --> 16:38.250]  So are you saying all of those are illegal?
[16:38.730 --> 16:44.290]  Only if there's no sign at WBII Studios saying you have no reasonable expectation of privacy.
[16:44.370 --> 16:45.070]  I'm not talking about the studios.
[16:45.210 --> 16:45.930]  I'm talking about the building.
[16:46.050 --> 16:47.610]  I'm talking about countless buildings throughout the city.
[16:47.810 --> 16:48.930]  How do you know that there's audio?
[16:49.150 --> 16:50.730]  Well, I just assume there's audio.
[16:51.330 --> 16:54.770]  I've seen cameras that have audio, so I don't see why they wouldn't have audio.
[16:54.870 --> 17:01.430]  I think it would be funny to put a sign on the outside of his luggage that says, you have no reasonable expectation of privacy, without any explanation.
[17:02.230 --> 17:05.630]  Yeah, I mean, this is a semi-public place.
[17:05.630 --> 17:09.110]  I mean, obviously, the public can't get into this place, but it's a work environment.
[17:09.110 --> 17:13.530]  I mentioned they have their own cameras going, recording audio as well.
[17:13.670 --> 17:15.670]  So maybe they just stick up signs or something.
[17:16.570 --> 17:22.270]  The vast majority of closed-circuit TV security cameras don't have microphones attached to them.
[17:22.370 --> 17:23.050]  The vast majority.
[17:23.530 --> 17:24.130]  That's interesting.
[17:24.290 --> 17:25.110]  That's... Okay, so...
[17:25.110 --> 17:29.590]  Well, because a crime is committed, you only really need their face to attribute it to them.
[17:29.630 --> 17:30.250]  You don't need the audio.
[17:30.350 --> 17:31.710]  The audio doesn't really add anything to it.
[17:31.710 --> 17:34.010]  Well, it might add a full explanation as to the crime they're committing.
[17:34.010 --> 17:38.050]  Like, okay, you know, Rocky, you go over here and you stand by the car and we're all getting away.
[17:38.190 --> 17:40.590]  And Leo's going to run around the side and with the guns.
[17:40.750 --> 17:42.290]  You know, it's good to have a narrative.
[17:42.550 --> 17:45.230]  I think generally the criminals plan that stuff ahead of time.
[17:45.370 --> 17:45.550]  Uh-huh.
[17:45.970 --> 17:48.510]  Can't you... Haven't you ever seen these unrealistic movies?
[17:48.510 --> 17:49.490]  They can just read the lips.
[17:49.930 --> 17:51.050]  Yeah, it's true, true, I guess.
[17:51.310 --> 17:52.090]  Enhance the video.
[17:52.370 --> 17:53.070]  They just zoom in.
[17:53.210 --> 17:53.910]  Yeah, it's great.
[17:54.310 --> 17:54.650]  High tech.
[17:55.070 --> 17:57.490]  Wouldn't lip reading be sort of an audio substitute?
[17:57.690 --> 18:00.550]  Like, you know, on television, closed captioning, that kind of a thing.
[18:00.690 --> 18:01.990]  Shouldn't it be treated the same way?
[18:01.990 --> 18:01.990]  Okay.
[18:02.590 --> 18:08.170]  It's interesting, Emmanuel, that for several years and probably still today, every single U.S.
[18:08.290 --> 18:11.810]  presidential candidate has had a lip reader on their paid staff.
[18:11.990 --> 18:12.310]  Really?
[18:12.570 --> 18:21.530]  Because at meetings and especially at the convention, especially this year, where there's things maybe actually decided at a convention for a change, it's really important to know what other people are saying.
[18:21.530 --> 18:32.290]  And a well-trained lip reader with a pair of binoculars or a spotting scope or just with vision can really glean a lot of information.
[18:32.430 --> 18:33.930]  Well, yeah, but who are they watching?
[18:34.050 --> 18:35.510]  They can't watch everybody at once.
[18:36.290 --> 18:36.690]  Politics.
[18:36.950 --> 18:38.530]  They know who to watch, who's who's...
[18:38.530 --> 18:40.310]  Like, somebody's going to get any Congress to.
[18:40.430 --> 18:45.930]  Somebody could be, like, on the hinge vote in some bill that involves billions of dollars or some company.
[18:46.190 --> 18:46.970]  This is done.
[18:47.070 --> 18:48.730]  This is not as uncommon as people would think.
[18:48.730 --> 18:56.370]  Well, why don't the people at the conference just attach, like, a piece of paper over their mouth so that people can't see what their lips are doing, but the people next to them can hear them?
[18:56.710 --> 18:57.970]  I guess they're just not careful.
[18:58.070 --> 18:58.950]  People are just not careful.
[18:58.950 --> 19:00.310]  We could market that, I guess, to them.
[19:01.390 --> 19:03.210]  Okay, well, any other... not Kevin.
[19:03.330 --> 19:04.150]  We're forgetting one thing.
[19:04.210 --> 19:04.370]  Yes.
[19:04.710 --> 19:05.330]  Block party.
[19:05.750 --> 19:06.550]  Okay, tell us about that.
[19:06.690 --> 19:08.570]  I still have absolutely no idea what it was about.
[19:08.750 --> 19:10.210]  I'm hoping someone here actually knows.
[19:10.230 --> 19:11.530]  Well, you brought it up, so you better know what it was about.
[19:11.530 --> 19:12.650]  Well, we forgot to talk about it.
[19:12.710 --> 19:12.990]  Okay.
[19:13.590 --> 19:15.950]  What was this block party and where was it taking place?
[19:16.070 --> 19:17.330]  It was taking place at Natacon.
[19:17.490 --> 19:17.650]  Okay.
[19:18.490 --> 19:22.450]  So what they do is they have people who bring demos, which I guess...
[19:22.450 --> 19:34.290]  There's a long explanation about what demos are, but generally it's some kind of audio and visual presentation that is done with either a computer or an old gaming system or...
[19:34.290 --> 19:35.250]  A really old system.
[19:35.390 --> 19:36.710]  A lot of old systems there.
[19:37.030 --> 19:41.250]  Some people actually did it all in hardware with FPGAs, which was the most impressive to me.
[19:41.690 --> 19:53.850]  One of... there was a team, a girl and a guy, and I don't remember their names, unfortunately, but they did one of these demos with an FPGA board with absolutely no CPU, and I thought that was really... that's really impressive.
[19:55.010 --> 19:58.130]  A couple of other people used old gaming systems.
[19:58.130 --> 20:02.150]  Some of them wrote software in Linux and Windows and other operating systems.
[20:02.270 --> 20:12.590]  And it's basically just an audio and visual presentation, and there are different themes, and I don't remember what the different categories that they had there were, but it's just like a neat thing to show off, you know.
[20:12.610 --> 20:14.630]  It gets such an enthusiastic response, too, from the audience.
[20:14.910 --> 20:15.550]  I've noticed this.
[20:15.650 --> 20:17.850]  Now, Mike, you and I saw this back in Europe.
[20:17.970 --> 20:19.370]  What was it, 2001 we saw this?
[20:19.530 --> 20:20.410]  I think it was at HAL, yeah.
[20:20.450 --> 20:20.690]  At HAL?
[20:20.730 --> 20:23.110]  I wasn't in Europe in 2001.
[20:23.190 --> 20:23.510]  Well, then it wasn't HAL.
[20:23.510 --> 20:24.670]  So I saw it some other time.
[20:24.690 --> 20:24.870]  Yeah.
[20:25.550 --> 20:28.910]  But I also saw it in Cleveland just the other day.
[20:28.990 --> 20:31.470]  Well, yeah, but I'm trying to bring back another time we saw it as well.
[20:31.690 --> 20:32.750]  Obviously, we all saw it in Cleveland.
[20:32.750 --> 20:53.790]  The whole technology harkens back to the 80s, where video games had very little memory and video horsepower, and you had to use pretty crude graphics and be a very, very good engineer to write code that would generate really cool and detailed graphics with a very minimum of computing power and memory.
[20:53.990 --> 20:59.770]  And some of these demos with really amazing graphics were just done with a few K of code.
[20:59.770 --> 21:05.590]  I mean, like 10K of code, and these things go on and on, and you just can't imagine how somebody could possibly write this.
[21:05.710 --> 21:06.450]  It's so cool.
[21:06.610 --> 21:09.130]  You sound pretty enthusiastic about this.
[21:09.550 --> 21:10.330]  And I hope...
[21:10.330 --> 21:12.350]  Of course, it's all set to electronic music.
[21:12.530 --> 21:16.830]  I hope that we're able to get these people to come to the Hope Conference as well in July.
[21:16.970 --> 21:28.690]  In fact, I want to also extend an invitation to anybody who spoke at that conference or who simply wants to speak at our conference to submit your proposal for a panel, a speaking gig.
[21:29.410 --> 21:30.810]  Speakers at Hope.net.
[21:31.430 --> 21:32.470]  That's Hope.net.
[21:32.650 --> 21:33.850]  It's not going to Barack Obama anymore.
[21:33.870 --> 21:34.430]  It's going to us.
[21:34.990 --> 21:38.030]  Speakers at Hope.net if you want to become a part of the conference in that way.
[21:38.110 --> 21:44.330]  If you want to volunteer for other types of things, volunteers at Hope.net is our email address for that.
[21:44.330 --> 21:46.690]  If you want to be a vendor, vendors at Hope.net.
[21:47.030 --> 21:47.270]  Yeah.
[21:47.490 --> 21:50.950]  And if you just want more information, www.hope.net is our website.
[21:51.170 --> 21:51.950]  And it's going to be a lot of fun.
[21:52.050 --> 21:55.830]  July 18th, 19th, and 20th, Hotel Pennsylvania in New York City.
[21:55.910 --> 21:58.110]  Mike, did you look something up in the Not A Con program?
[21:58.110 --> 22:00.270]  I looked at things, but nothing.
[22:00.710 --> 22:03.250]  Now, you know what I thought was neat at Block Party?
[22:03.450 --> 22:05.310]  Not at Block Party, but at Not A Con in general.
[22:05.410 --> 22:07.010]  They had that improv.
[22:08.370 --> 22:09.230]  It wasn't a panel.
[22:09.350 --> 22:11.150]  It was like a part, like an after hours kind of party.
[22:11.150 --> 22:13.510]  They had a Who Slide Is It Anyway?
[22:13.690 --> 22:14.930]  Which I thought was a neat concept.
[22:15.010 --> 22:15.930]  I thought it was a neat concept.
[22:16.050 --> 22:17.330]  I thought it could have been better executed.
[22:17.470 --> 22:18.030]  It could have been better.
[22:18.090 --> 22:19.850]  The first couple of people who went up...
[22:19.850 --> 22:21.410]  Basically, we'll explain the premise first.
[22:21.550 --> 22:23.730]  What they had was a bunch of slides.
[22:23.810 --> 22:25.770]  It was like a PowerPoint presentation full of slides.
[22:26.030 --> 22:28.990]  And I think each person got probably around five or six slides.
[22:29.190 --> 22:31.610]  And they had absolutely no idea what was in those slides.
[22:31.690 --> 22:33.450]  They had no clue as to what the content was.
[22:33.530 --> 22:34.050]  It's your worst nightmare.
[22:34.050 --> 22:35.430]  You're giving a PowerPoint presentation.
[22:35.430 --> 22:38.010]  Well, that would be my worst nightmare, but...
[22:38.010 --> 22:38.330]  They're pretty bad.
[22:38.430 --> 22:39.790]  And you have no idea what's...
[22:39.790 --> 22:40.910]  You forgot your presentation.
[22:41.050 --> 22:42.010]  And you're just seeing these slides.
[22:42.130 --> 22:44.230]  And you have to sort of make it make sense somehow.
[22:44.270 --> 22:44.390]  Right.
[22:44.450 --> 22:47.190]  So you have a topic that you have absolutely no idea what it's about.
[22:47.290 --> 22:48.670]  Sometimes the topics didn't even make sense.
[22:48.790 --> 22:50.570]  They were completely nonsensical with funny images.
[22:50.570 --> 22:54.230]  And you kind of had to wing it in terms of presenting this material.
[22:54.550 --> 22:57.610]  And the first couple of people who went up were really drunk and really funny.
[22:58.010 --> 22:59.070]  And it was just...
[22:59.070 --> 23:00.810]  They were encouraged to be really drunk.
[23:00.890 --> 23:02.530]  Well, that was one of the points, I guess.
[23:03.150 --> 23:04.870]  Not exactly my idea, but whatever.
[23:04.870 --> 23:07.550]  But it was a really funny presentation.
[23:07.550 --> 23:09.890]  And then it sort of died down at the end, but...
[23:10.430 --> 23:12.070]  Well, you see, I think it would have been better.
[23:12.830 --> 23:18.830]  A lot of them just had pictures of alcohol and things like that on the slides and funny-looking faces.
[23:18.850 --> 23:21.750]  I think just random pictures would have worked much better.
[23:21.910 --> 23:29.710]  Now, if we could incorporate this with one of those Wi-Fi image grabbers so that it would just post images based on what people are browsing.
[23:29.710 --> 23:30.210]  Yeah.
[23:30.470 --> 23:38.130]  In other words, grab the signal of what somebody is looking at on the internet at the conference and bring it to the screen.
[23:38.310 --> 23:40.830]  And a lot of people don't realize what they're using Wi-Fi for.
[23:41.130 --> 23:43.270]  It can be seen by anybody if they're not using encryption.
[23:43.670 --> 23:45.710]  And just, yeah, embarrass them at the same time.
[23:45.770 --> 23:49.490]  And then you have to sort of explain what it is you're seeing, even though you have no idea what it is.
[23:49.490 --> 23:56.770]  I think that's an absolutely horrible idea, because if someone figures out, you know, why we're pulling images off people's laptops, they're going to open up something really disgusting.
[23:57.150 --> 23:57.530]  That's...
[23:57.530 --> 23:58.470]  Yeah, that's true, too.
[23:58.810 --> 23:58.930]  Hmm.
[23:59.110 --> 23:59.330]  Okay.
[23:59.770 --> 24:00.390]  Bad idea.
[24:00.590 --> 24:00.830]  Yeah, Mike.
[24:00.970 --> 24:02.350]  Kevin beat me to the point.
[24:02.450 --> 24:02.690]  Okay.
[24:02.910 --> 24:03.890]  Well, still, still.
[24:04.890 --> 24:06.610]  And, oh, I had cocaine.
[24:07.050 --> 24:07.290]  Huh?
[24:07.390 --> 24:08.570]  I tried that for the first time.
[24:08.630 --> 24:09.670]  You know, it's funny, because...
[24:09.670 --> 24:10.030]  Now, did you have...
[24:10.030 --> 24:13.370]  People told me that I was not going to like it, all right?
[24:13.470 --> 24:17.830]  And I tried it, and it was actually rather intriguing.
[24:18.110 --> 24:19.410]  Bernie, I don't think you liked it, right?
[24:19.910 --> 24:22.770]  I thought it tasted like a very peppery Dr. Pepper.
[24:23.190 --> 24:24.110]  Yeah, yeah.
[24:24.390 --> 24:24.750]  But...
[24:24.750 --> 24:25.870]  This was the liquid form.
[24:26.030 --> 24:26.670]  It was spicy.
[24:27.030 --> 24:27.910]  It did burn your throat.
[24:28.030 --> 24:28.230]  Yes.
[24:28.350 --> 24:28.850]  Oh, no, of course.
[24:29.650 --> 24:30.430]  Do you think people actually...
[24:30.430 --> 24:30.530]  No.
[24:31.110 --> 24:31.650]  Of course.
[24:31.910 --> 24:40.290]  We're talking about the drink, cocaine, which apparently comes out of Las Vegas or something, and it's got all this caffeine in it, and you can't buy it in New York.
[24:40.310 --> 24:41.910]  I think it's not even legal to buy it.
[24:41.950 --> 24:43.870]  It's banned in a bunch of states because of the name.
[24:43.990 --> 24:44.990]  Just because of the name?
[24:45.070 --> 24:45.270]  Yeah.
[24:45.790 --> 24:46.450]  That's so sad.
[24:46.450 --> 24:48.150]  But the label was amusing, because they had...
[24:48.150 --> 24:56.630]  Because the explanation before they were passed out was that they had to relabel these things because it said, I think the caption was the legal substitute or something like that.
[24:57.210 --> 24:58.870]  And you can't even say that in Ohio.
[24:59.210 --> 24:59.990]  I guess not.
[25:00.090 --> 25:04.950]  Wait, how is it possible that something is legal in Ohio that's not legal in New York?
[25:05.210 --> 25:07.970]  I mean, how is it possible that a drink, you can have this...
[25:07.970 --> 25:10.090]  I would think it would be prohibited there before it's prohibited here.
[25:10.230 --> 25:11.410]  Maybe they weren't selling it.
[25:11.590 --> 25:11.830]  Yes.
[25:11.870 --> 25:12.390]  Bernie, you had something?
[25:12.750 --> 25:19.210]  The original label that was hidden under the new labels that were around the cans said the legal alternative.
[25:19.210 --> 25:24.050]  And that was a phrase that the FDA, the Food and Drug Administration, had a real problem with.
[25:24.190 --> 25:30.470]  So the bottling company had to re-bottle a soft drink or re-can a soft drink and put a...
[25:30.470 --> 25:33.830]  I didn't even know there was an extra label on it until somebody cut one and showed me.
[25:33.930 --> 25:41.210]  There's a new label around it, and there was a new message to the FDA that said, does somebody remember better than I do what that new message said?
[25:41.390 --> 25:51.530]  It was something to the point of, in case it's not obvious that this actually isn't cocaine, and then it made some crude comment about, you know, obviously directed to the FDA.
[25:51.770 --> 25:55.290]  Do you think people actually wanted their money back when they found out it wasn't true cocaine?
[25:56.390 --> 25:57.990]  Can you imagine that, pursuing a refund?
[25:58.590 --> 25:59.570]  We didn't pay for it.
[25:59.690 --> 26:00.310]  Oh, that's true.
[26:00.430 --> 26:02.350]  Yeah, it was provided for free, which was very nice.
[26:02.470 --> 26:02.930]  Free cocaine.
[26:03.110 --> 26:05.030]  I mean, we can't ask for more at a conference.
[26:05.590 --> 26:06.990]  But no, it's the drink.
[26:06.990 --> 26:07.650]  It's the drink.
[26:07.710 --> 26:08.630]  That's all we're talking about.
[26:08.690 --> 26:09.330]  That's what it's called.
[26:09.430 --> 26:13.490]  It made the news several times before I had even tried it, before I even knew it was going to be at this conference.
[26:13.490 --> 26:15.270]  It was like a big deal at some point in the past.
[26:15.270 --> 26:16.550]  Yeah, a couple months ago.
[26:16.730 --> 26:16.950]  Wow.
[26:17.830 --> 26:21.150]  Okay, well, that's our Not-A-Con review, and a lot of fun.
[26:21.290 --> 26:21.810]  A lot of fun.
[26:21.990 --> 26:27.450]  Cleveland, not so much, but, you know, they made Cleveland an interesting place because we had some place to go for three days.
[26:27.450 --> 26:29.150]  You should have gone to the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.
[26:29.290 --> 26:30.370]  It's a pretty nice museum.
[26:30.510 --> 26:35.950]  Well, yeah, it's expensive, and it was filled with tourists, and I didn't have a whole lot of time to explore that.
[26:36.390 --> 26:36.750]  Maybe.
[26:36.890 --> 26:37.370]  Maybe someday.
[26:37.750 --> 26:38.570]  You saw Lake Erie.
[26:38.850 --> 26:41.550]  We saw Lake Erie, which apparently is not still a dead lake.
[26:41.550 --> 26:46.310]  I was taught in school that Lake Erie was the dead lake, and not the Grateful Dead Lake.
[26:46.510 --> 26:50.030]  It's, you know, the uncool dead lake where apparently nothing could live.
[26:50.290 --> 26:54.110]  But I'm told now that it's much better, and things actually are alive in there.
[26:54.190 --> 26:55.930]  Although, you know, you couldn't really guess by looking at it.
[26:55.990 --> 26:57.750]  It's pretty murky and depressing.
[26:58.110 --> 26:59.450]  I wouldn't jump in that water.
[26:59.630 --> 27:02.630]  No, I'd push somebody in if I didn't like them, but I would not jump in myself.
[27:02.770 --> 27:04.030]  Well, I wouldn't jump in the Hudson either.
[27:04.450 --> 27:08.230]  I think the Hudson is pristine compared to Lake Erie, from what I've heard.
[27:08.230 --> 27:14.550]  You know, I actually read that there's actually a swimming race around Manhattan that's once a year where they swim, and it's crazy.
[27:14.610 --> 27:15.210]  That's disgusting.
[27:15.470 --> 27:15.590]  Yeah.
[27:15.830 --> 27:18.690]  It's an 80% completion rate, 20% missing afterwards.
[27:19.290 --> 27:22.970]  Now, Mike, we should also point this out, too, and then move on.
[27:23.070 --> 27:25.490]  But Cleveland does have a mass transit system.
[27:25.910 --> 27:29.430]  And for some reason, it's not so bad.
[27:29.430 --> 27:29.990]  It's not so bad.
[27:30.110 --> 27:30.990]  It's not so good either.
[27:30.990 --> 27:41.550]  You take a train from the airport, and then you transfer to another train, which, by the way, all you do is you walk up the stairs and pay again, and walk down the stairs on the other side.
[27:41.670 --> 27:42.570]  You're on the same platform.
[27:42.750 --> 27:44.410]  There's no stairs involved, even.
[27:44.730 --> 27:46.550]  I went up, and then I came down again.
[27:46.710 --> 27:47.030]  Yeah.
[27:47.150 --> 27:48.010]  I don't think you had to.
[27:48.190 --> 27:49.910]  Well, that's how I pay the second time.
[27:50.010 --> 27:54.470]  Because otherwise, if you keep walking down the platform, they say you're trespassing, and you're going to be prosecuted for doing that.
[27:54.550 --> 27:56.090]  There's like some doors, but anyway.
[27:56.090 --> 27:59.690]  Well, the point is, oh, yes, very nice.
[27:59.810 --> 28:00.890]  Thank you for showing me a picture on the air.
[28:01.330 --> 28:02.010]  You might be right.
[28:02.070 --> 28:02.690]  You might be right about that.
[28:02.790 --> 28:03.810]  It might just be doors.
[28:04.010 --> 28:10.970]  But the point is, this has been voted as the number one mass transit system in the country.
[28:11.030 --> 28:17.450]  Now, who are the clowns who voted this system, which, by the way, nobody is ever on, and maybe three people on whatever vehicle you're taking.
[28:17.630 --> 28:18.810]  But do you remember who it was?
[28:18.930 --> 28:21.750]  Well, I took it during rush hour to get back to New York.
[28:21.790 --> 28:22.710]  And six people were on it then?
[28:23.070 --> 28:25.670]  Well, on one vehicle, there were four of us.
[28:26.090 --> 28:29.270]  And the other one was like sort of full, but not really full.
[28:29.410 --> 28:34.950]  But the vote was taken by the American Public Transit Association, which you'd think would know better.
[28:35.130 --> 28:36.950]  Well, maybe they're just headquartered in Cleveland.
[28:37.230 --> 28:38.410]  No, they're just dumb.
[28:38.510 --> 28:43.530]  How can you possibly say something like that is the number one mass transit in the United States?
[28:43.530 --> 28:44.390]  It makes no sense at all.
[28:44.410 --> 28:44.950]  They're lying.
[28:45.150 --> 28:45.510]  That's how.
[28:45.610 --> 28:47.090]  Now, I learned one other thing, too.
[28:47.410 --> 28:52.790]  The train that you take from the airport, which is actually a three-car train, looks like a real train to a real subway a little bit.
[28:53.050 --> 28:53.950]  They call that the rapid.
[28:53.950 --> 28:54.010]  Rapid.
[28:54.170 --> 28:55.430]  That's what you call it when you're in Cleveland.
[28:55.470 --> 28:56.350]  I'm on the rapid now.
[28:56.430 --> 28:58.110]  Because everybody was talking on their cell phone saying that.
[28:58.250 --> 29:02.070]  The only person I actually saw using the public transportation system was a homeless guy running on a freight train.
[29:02.850 --> 29:04.770]  You know, we watched a freight train go by.
[29:04.910 --> 29:05.590]  It was kind of fun.
[29:05.730 --> 29:07.210]  We saw a freight train going by the hotel.
[29:07.370 --> 29:12.830]  And I said, you know, I really wish I could see a hobo, you know, because I hear about hobos on freight trains.
[29:12.830 --> 29:15.050]  And right away, you saw somebody.
[29:15.050 --> 29:17.150]  You said, look, there's somebody riding between cars.
[29:17.150 --> 29:21.810]  And he was actually sitting between the cars about ready to hop off if somebody caught him.
[29:22.110 --> 29:23.010]  Never seen that before.
[29:23.150 --> 29:23.290]  Never.
[29:23.410 --> 29:24.270]  I'd love to do that.
[29:24.390 --> 29:26.510]  I'd love to ride a freight train somewhere.
[29:26.870 --> 29:29.430]  And we're also forgetting about the smile and ride bus system.
[29:29.990 --> 29:30.390]  Yeah.
[29:30.450 --> 29:31.650]  Why don't you tell us about that?
[29:31.810 --> 29:33.670]  I still have no idea how this works.
[29:33.690 --> 29:39.070]  But every once in a while, a bus would pull up in front of the hotel and it would say, smile and ride free.
[29:39.550 --> 29:40.670]  Now, I watch...
[29:40.670 --> 29:42.050]  So if you smile, you get on for free.
[29:42.130 --> 29:42.890]  That's what I'm assuming.
[29:42.890 --> 29:46.530]  But every person I saw get on looked very unhappy and did not smile.
[29:46.530 --> 29:50.410]  And we saw another sign on a competing bus that sort of was a variation of that.
[29:50.450 --> 29:50.710]  Right, Mike?
[29:51.230 --> 29:51.630]  Yeah.
[29:51.830 --> 29:57.190]  That one was sort of the opposite, where if you weren't happy, you could fill out a form and get your money back.
[29:57.750 --> 29:58.150]  Yeah.
[29:59.610 --> 30:03.990]  Well, it seems like there's a way, if that's the same bus, you could be at two for one.
[30:04.110 --> 30:05.170]  It's a different bus.
[30:05.170 --> 30:07.710]  You smile, you get on for free, and then you're not happy, you get money back.
[30:07.710 --> 30:15.650]  We were on the Euclid Avenue line, which is being transformed, not yet, into a bus rapid transit system, which is a sort of interesting thing.
[30:16.910 --> 30:20.590]  But, you know, they're trying, the Cleveland public transit system.
[30:20.690 --> 30:24.590]  They're trying a lot more than a lot of other cities in the United States of similar size.
[30:24.630 --> 30:28.110]  But the number one system in the America, it's just not.
[30:28.110 --> 30:35.370]  I'm told that we have now broken the record for talking about Cleveland for the longest amount of time on WBAI, which was last set in 1969.
[30:35.570 --> 30:38.230]  So, congratulations all for pulling this off.
[30:38.990 --> 30:40.030]  I'm proud of us.
[30:40.130 --> 30:40.850]  I think we did a good job.
[30:40.930 --> 30:44.390]  And I'd like to at least mention a slogan that I saw.
[30:44.510 --> 30:44.890]  A slogan?
[30:45.050 --> 30:45.270]  Yes.
[30:45.450 --> 30:47.290]  You've got Cleveland, what more do you need?
[30:48.310 --> 30:50.210]  There were all these sort of defensive slogans.
[30:50.230 --> 30:50.790]  No, no, no, no, no.
[30:50.950 --> 30:51.890]  There's no do in there.
[30:51.990 --> 30:54.090]  It's just you've got Cleveland, what more you need.
[30:54.810 --> 30:55.750]  What more you need.
[30:55.830 --> 30:57.150]  That's not even grammatically correct.
[30:57.270 --> 30:57.790]  That's the vernacular.
[30:57.970 --> 31:00.990]  But there were all these sort of defensive slogans like, Cleveland's not so bad.
[31:00.990 --> 31:01.750]  What are you talking about?
[31:01.870 --> 31:07.290]  Things like that where basically, I guess, people diss Cleveland and they're sort of defensive about that.
[31:07.410 --> 31:08.230]  It wasn't working.
[31:08.410 --> 31:11.030]  Everyone I talked to from Cleveland thought it was an awful place.
[31:11.030 --> 31:13.890]  Well, I had to take a cab ride, like I said, to get food.
[31:13.990 --> 31:26.470]  And the cab driver, who was a certified lunatic, by the way, he was talking about how he shot some guy to prove a point once, and the kind of gun he had at home, and how he has a gun in the cab for people who don't pay the fare, which I took as a direct warning,
[31:26.670 --> 31:32.890]  and how he can't possibly be racist because he's married to a black woman, but then he proceeds to go off on this racist tangent.
[31:33.470 --> 31:34.870]  And that was a pretty scary ride.
[31:36.070 --> 31:37.010]  Why did I bring that up?
[31:37.790 --> 31:39.510]  Because he kept saying, this is Cleveland, Ohio.
[31:39.510 --> 31:43.030]  You know, I kept saying, it's too bad you can't find something to eat late at night.
[31:43.130 --> 31:45.570]  He says, well, it's not New York, this is Cleveland, Ohio.
[31:45.830 --> 31:48.870]  And every time he was saying something bad, he'd tell me, this is Cleveland, Ohio.
[31:49.290 --> 31:52.650]  You know, in case I was forgetting and thinking I was in someplace else.
[31:52.970 --> 31:53.810]  Back to the metros.
[31:53.970 --> 32:01.830]  I don't know if I mentioned this last time I was on the air, but I got really freaked out once when I was waiting for the metro in Helsinki.
[32:02.210 --> 32:03.250]  Oh, you're back in Finland now.
[32:03.250 --> 32:04.050]  Yeah, yeah.
[32:04.910 --> 32:11.030]  I'm standing there and looking at the ground, and I look up, and all of a sudden there's a New York subway car in front of me.
[32:11.290 --> 32:11.690]  Yes.
[32:12.150 --> 32:23.590]  And it turns out that the Helsinki paper, the Helsinki Sonoma, was running this ad campaign where, for whatever reason, they were, you know how on the sides of buses sometimes they put that kind of wallpaper material?
[32:23.710 --> 32:23.810]  Yeah.
[32:33.250 --> 32:37.510]  The New York City subway car, and it just, it freaked me out.
[32:37.710 --> 32:41.870]  It took me, you know, I had to do a double take because I was suddenly confused as to where I was.
[32:42.470 --> 32:46.310]  They did it also with the London Underground cars.
[32:46.430 --> 32:47.050]  They did those, too.
[32:47.230 --> 32:47.830]  They mimicked them.
[32:48.370 --> 32:51.150]  I guess not many people in Finland would know what the New York City subway is talking about.
[32:51.150 --> 32:52.370]  Yeah, it had a little description on it.
[32:54.030 --> 32:54.830]  Hopefully it was accurate.
[32:54.970 --> 32:56.210]  But it freaked me out really.
[32:57.390 --> 32:57.730]  Emmanuel.
[32:57.950 --> 32:58.150]  Yes.
[32:58.150 --> 32:59.750]  I just wanted to interject.
[32:59.990 --> 33:09.110]  We saw something really interesting in downtown Cleveland, and that was, there was the federal building, which has the federal law enforcement agencies like FBI, DEA, all those guys.
[33:09.450 --> 33:13.210]  And right next to this building was a gigantic rubber stamp.
[33:13.410 --> 33:14.650]  It was like 20 feet high.
[33:14.730 --> 33:15.490]  Yeah, I saw that.
[33:15.530 --> 33:16.110]  That was disturbing.
[33:16.690 --> 33:18.150]  And it said free on it.
[33:18.150 --> 33:18.410]  Free, yeah.
[33:18.410 --> 33:21.690]  The word was free, which I couldn't figure out what they were trying to say.
[33:22.450 --> 33:26.070]  We couldn't figure out what this giant rubber stamp is for next to the federal building.
[33:26.070 --> 33:29.930]  Maybe they just rubber stamp all the search warrants and things like that.
[33:30.150 --> 33:30.570]  Okay.
[33:30.750 --> 33:32.930]  Can we say this is enough about Cleveland now?
[33:33.070 --> 33:35.350]  We've talked about 35 minutes straight.
[33:35.490 --> 33:35.630]  Okay.
[33:35.830 --> 33:41.450]  Let me move on to New York, sticking with the Hacker Conference theme right now.
[33:41.830 --> 33:59.530]  We just found out, this comes from the NewYorkObserver.com via our friend Pyro, who tells us, with Merrill Lynch staying put downtown and plans to redevelop Penn Station in flux, Vornado CEO Stephen Roth may not know what to do with the Hotel Pennsylvania,
[33:59.770 --> 34:04.150]  a building the company once described as a placeholder, sort of like a parking lot.
[34:04.170 --> 34:12.490]  But in the meantime, the historic lodge continues to make his company some big bucks, netting roughly $37.9 million last year.
[34:12.490 --> 34:22.550]  That's $10.6 million more than in 2006, according to the company's latest filing with federal regulators, which further added, this property continues to trend higher in 2008.
[34:23.150 --> 34:26.870]  With revenues on the rise, does it still make sense to raise it?
[34:27.030 --> 34:30.110]  They might be turning this year's conference title into a lie.
[34:30.450 --> 34:31.230]  Yeah, maybe.
[34:31.250 --> 34:37.750]  So the Hotel Pennsylvania might not be falling nearly as quickly as people assume it is.
[34:37.870 --> 34:39.690]  So this is something to remember.
[34:39.890 --> 34:40.930]  Yeah, the hotel is doing well.
[34:41.030 --> 34:41.970]  People are always going there.
[34:42.490 --> 34:45.810]  And it's a good location for our conferences.
[34:45.810 --> 34:49.510]  So if you care about that, pay attention to this.
[34:49.710 --> 34:57.830]  I think savethehotel.org is the website that still is having updates on what you can do to keep attention on this.
[34:57.950 --> 35:03.530]  But yeah, Hotel Pennsylvania, that's where our conference will be taking place this July, July 18, 19, and 20.
[35:03.690 --> 35:05.710]  Again, more information at www.hope.net.
[35:05.810 --> 35:09.350]  Now, Redhack, you have a special announcement for all of our Finnish listeners.
[35:09.350 --> 35:12.570]  Now, you know, I know we do have listeners in Finland.
[35:12.690 --> 35:16.830]  In fact, one thing I learned at Natakon was that we have so many listeners all over the place.
[35:17.050 --> 35:19.250]  People always come up to us, wherever we go.
[35:19.370 --> 35:23.490]  Dayton is one place where people come up to us and say, yeah, I listen to your show all the time.
[35:23.690 --> 35:24.870]  I heard last week.
[35:26.350 --> 35:28.910]  And it's just great to meet these people, to know that they're out there.
[35:29.070 --> 35:31.110]  But you have something you want to say to the Finnish listeners.
[35:31.250 --> 35:32.170]  I will do my best.
[35:32.290 --> 35:32.530]  All right.
[35:32.670 --> 35:34.170]  We'll let you fly with this.
[35:34.250 --> 35:34.470]  Go ahead.
[35:47.090 --> 35:47.450]  Wow,
[35:51.330 --> 35:51.850]  that's the whole thing?
[35:52.050 --> 35:53.510]  Well, I added a little more.
[35:54.570 --> 35:55.290]  That's great.
[35:55.690 --> 35:56.050]  That's great.
[35:56.170 --> 35:57.210]  How long did it take you to become fluent?
[35:57.430 --> 35:58.230]  And you are fluent.
[35:58.410 --> 35:58.910]  I think that's...
[35:58.910 --> 35:59.650]  I'm somewhat fluent.
[36:00.870 --> 36:01.770]  As best I...
[36:02.210 --> 36:03.770]  I mean, I assume you were speaking Finnish.
[36:03.770 --> 36:04.770]  Well, yeah, I was.
[36:04.870 --> 36:07.910]  When I got there, I wasn't that fluent.
[36:08.030 --> 36:13.370]  But, you know, as time went on, I learned more words and improved the grammar and all that.
[36:13.730 --> 36:14.090]  So...
[36:14.090 --> 36:14.270]  Great.
[36:14.410 --> 36:14.870]  I can get by.
[36:14.970 --> 36:16.270]  I can hold the conversation, at least.
[36:16.410 --> 36:19.430]  I expect to see a lot of people from Finland come as a result of that alone.
[36:19.710 --> 36:20.750]  So, thanks.
[36:21.030 --> 36:21.090]  We'll see.
[36:21.270 --> 36:23.570]  Anybody else has any other languages they wish to know?
[36:23.810 --> 36:24.170]  Okay.
[36:24.750 --> 36:25.310]  All right, then.
[36:25.350 --> 36:25.930]  Moving on.
[36:26.150 --> 36:30.130]  We have a couple of news stories that we'd like to focus on.
[36:31.270 --> 36:31.730]  Let's see.
[36:31.730 --> 36:34.050]  This is something that just kind of happened.
[36:34.610 --> 36:42.250]  Federal cybersecurity officials are trying to develop an early warning system that alerts authorities to incoming computer attacks targeting critical U.S.
[36:42.430 --> 36:42.970]  infrastructure.
[36:43.510 --> 36:46.690]  Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff said this yesterday.
[36:46.950 --> 36:53.670]  His keynote speech at the RSA Security Conference was rather light on details, kind of the theme of this administration.
[36:55.870 --> 36:58.610]  And many of the details, he said, were classified.
[36:58.870 --> 37:02.950]  Now, some security experts said the idea of an early warning system seemed far-fetched.
[37:03.390 --> 37:10.770]  Robert Graham, who is the chief executive of Atlanta-based Errata Security, an expert on computer intrusion prevention and current technology...
[37:10.770 --> 37:14.830]  He said current technology, rather, can only detect when a hack has already occurred.
[37:15.230 --> 37:18.310]  And even then, the breaches usually happen too fast for an early warning.
[37:19.250 --> 37:21.930]  Technologically, all we can do is a post-warning system.
[37:21.930 --> 37:22.750]  You've been hacked.
[37:22.970 --> 37:23.790]  It's instantaneous.
[37:23.790 --> 37:27.530]  It's not like a hurricane or a missile coming at you that you can track coming towards you.
[37:27.770 --> 37:28.870]  It's just there.
[37:29.890 --> 37:30.850]  Chertoff said...
[37:30.850 --> 37:36.150]  Or rather, he did not say how the government plans to detect and flag computer threats as they sneak into government networks.
[37:36.290 --> 37:39.810]  But he did acknowledge the technical challenge in developing such a system.
[37:39.850 --> 37:40.770]  It's going to be hard.
[37:40.930 --> 37:42.010]  It's hard technically.
[37:42.030 --> 37:45.250]  It's hard because, to some degree, it requires working together.
[37:45.250 --> 37:50.350]  The fact that something's hard doesn't mean, let's not do it because it's going to be difficult.
[37:50.990 --> 37:51.550]  I'm sorry.
[37:51.650 --> 37:52.710]  I'm having a good time with this.
[37:53.010 --> 37:55.710]  It means, let's roll up our sleeves and get started.
[37:55.710 --> 37:56.850]  This sounds like a Bush quote.
[37:56.910 --> 37:57.590]  It really does.
[37:57.990 --> 37:58.690]  Taking lessons.
[37:58.890 --> 37:59.950]  But, I don't know.
[37:59.990 --> 38:00.510]  What do you think?
[38:00.610 --> 38:03.350]  How do they tie in and figure out when a hack is coming?
[38:03.450 --> 38:05.710]  I guess they listen to the chatter on IRC or something?
[38:06.510 --> 38:06.870]  Psychics.
[38:07.230 --> 38:07.590]  Psychics?
[38:07.790 --> 38:10.350]  Well, you know, don't laugh because they do use psychics for things.
[38:11.930 --> 38:12.390]  All right.
[38:12.390 --> 38:17.090]  So, basically, I guess there will be people watching our facial expressions thinking that we're about to hack a web page.
[38:17.190 --> 38:20.290]  Did they say how many millions or billions of dollars they're going to waste on this system?
[38:20.370 --> 38:21.470]  They don't even count anymore.
[38:21.670 --> 38:23.330]  They just throw the money at it.
[38:24.010 --> 38:25.450]  There's just so much out there.
[38:26.610 --> 38:27.070]  Okay.
[38:27.230 --> 38:28.490]  About cell phones.
[38:28.810 --> 38:38.090]  Federal regulators, as early as today, I understand, are expected to take a major step towards development of a nationwide emergency alert system.
[38:38.090 --> 38:45.130]  Yes, another one, that would send text messages to cell phones and other mobile devices whenever a crisis occurs.
[38:45.930 --> 38:57.910]  Lack of a simple way to deliver vital warnings to residents has hindered emergency responses in disasters such as Hurricane Katrina, recent college campus shootings, and a spate of devastating tornadoes in the southeast in February.
[38:58.290 --> 38:59.170]  Redbird, yes.
[38:59.170 --> 39:03.890]  Well, this actually sounds a lot like what my school just recently implemented with an emergency alert system.
[39:04.090 --> 39:07.170]  And basically, it's a voluntary system at this point.
[39:07.210 --> 39:08.390]  And you register your cell phone.
[39:08.510 --> 39:13.190]  And if anything happens, if there's a closing or if there's an emergency on campus or whatever, you're going to...
[39:13.190 --> 39:13.950]  Crazed gunmen walking around.
[39:14.090 --> 39:20.710]  We had the same thing at Stony Brook a few weeks ago where alerts were sent out saying that there was an armed guy wandering around.
[39:21.050 --> 39:24.490]  Reports that turned out to be false, but it caused a panic because nobody knew what to do.
[39:24.610 --> 39:25.810]  There was nothing after that.
[39:26.430 --> 39:28.690]  And a lot of people weren't even aware that it was going on.
[39:28.690 --> 39:34.850]  It seems to be proven that during every actual emergency, the cell phone system becomes so crippled that it actually goes down.
[39:34.870 --> 39:40.050]  So if this system is implemented and a disaster actually happened, the people who actually need the messages won't be able to get them.
[39:40.330 --> 39:41.510]  And that's true, too.
[39:41.570 --> 39:43.270]  And of course, you have to have a cell phone in the first place.
[39:43.390 --> 39:51.630]  I wonder how many people who couldn't afford to arrange their own transportation out of Hurricane Katrina's path, how many of them have cell phones that can receive text messages?
[39:51.910 --> 39:53.290]  And that's why we need more hams.
[39:54.010 --> 39:54.870]  Ham radio people?
[39:54.990 --> 39:55.590]  Yeah, I guess.
[39:55.590 --> 39:58.950]  Yes, but somehow I don't see all the people setting up ham rigs.
[39:59.050 --> 40:01.490]  But hey, we had a VE session at Natakon, too.
[40:01.650 --> 40:02.770]  Tell the people what that means.
[40:02.770 --> 40:03.490]  All four people?
[40:03.850 --> 40:05.670]  Well, a lot of people took the exam.
[40:06.110 --> 40:08.610]  It's the exam that you take to get your amateur radio license.
[40:08.730 --> 40:08.890]  VE?
[40:09.130 --> 40:10.250]  It's a volunteer examiner, yes.
[40:10.350 --> 40:14.810]  How many people exactly took this exam at like 8 o'clock in the morning on Sunday or whenever it was?
[40:14.810 --> 40:16.870]  Why is it always at 8 o'clock in the morning on a Sunday?
[40:16.990 --> 40:18.410]  I mean, that's the worst possible time.
[40:18.510 --> 40:18.870]  I don't know.
[40:19.450 --> 40:20.290]  Midnight on a Saturday.
[40:20.290 --> 40:23.630]  They have to advertise it in advance, and I guess that's a time that people like to die.
[40:23.650 --> 40:23.930]  I don't know.
[40:24.090 --> 40:25.690]  I mean, everybody was exhausted at that point.
[40:26.350 --> 40:28.010]  Did everybody pass or did everybody fail?
[40:28.010 --> 40:30.730]  Not everybody passed, but, you know.
[40:30.870 --> 40:32.250]  And are we going to be doing the same thing at Hope?
[40:32.810 --> 40:33.370]  We have.
[40:33.690 --> 40:34.770]  We did that last year.
[40:35.030 --> 40:35.990]  Was it a success?
[40:36.290 --> 40:36.550]  Last conference.
[40:36.710 --> 40:37.670]  It was a success.
[40:37.830 --> 40:39.310]  So then there's no reason not to do it again?
[40:39.670 --> 40:40.750]  No, it's a great thing to do.
[40:40.850 --> 40:41.850]  Bernie, do you think we should do it again?
[40:42.590 --> 40:42.870]  Absolutely.
[40:43.050 --> 40:45.530]  We've got a lot of new ham radio operators at the last Hope conference.
[40:45.670 --> 40:47.470]  And we'll have to live with that for the rest of our lives.
[40:48.450 --> 40:50.590]  But, no, it's great.
[40:50.590 --> 40:51.830]  It's great to do that.
[40:52.250 --> 40:53.390]  But why is it called VE?
[40:53.490 --> 40:54.410]  Why isn't it just called ham radio?
[40:54.730 --> 40:55.310]  It's a few people.
[40:55.310 --> 40:58.110]  Because volunteer examiners give the exams.
[40:58.190 --> 41:01.250]  It's not an actual FCC employee that does anything.
[41:01.250 --> 41:03.290]  It's just the volunteer examiners that do it.
[41:03.610 --> 41:07.230]  And they're part of, like, the ARRL, the EC, and stuff.
[41:07.330 --> 41:13.550]  So, like, it's basically a bunch of volunteers that do this to offload work from the FCC, which, whatever.
[41:13.750 --> 41:14.530]  It works well.
[41:14.650 --> 41:15.970]  Otherwise, no one would get their license.
[41:16.190 --> 41:16.330]  Yeah.
[41:16.330 --> 41:17.770]  We're going to take some phone calls.
[41:17.830 --> 41:20.910]  212-209-2900 in just a little bit.
[41:21.070 --> 41:23.390]  But first, a couple other bits of news about cellular phones.
[41:23.810 --> 41:32.090]  Apparently, the European Union is inching ever closer to outright support for calls made above 3,000 meters in the air.
[41:32.750 --> 41:43.010]  With no harmonized air-to-ground frequencies available in European or even in the works, we won't see the kind of broadband effort that AirCell purchased the rights to and is launching across the U.S.
[41:43.010 --> 41:57.250]  AirCell can cheaply achieve high-speed broadband, a few megabits per second, is what I'm trying to say, in each direction because they won't need to pay what are typically very high rates to satellite operators for bandwidth.
[41:58.630 --> 42:01.790]  The Europeans are obsessed by mobile calling in the air, though.
[42:01.790 --> 42:11.490]  The EU has recommended to European spectrum regulators that they allow a license issued in one member country to allow use over all EU nations.
[42:11.650 --> 42:16.910]  Likewise, they did some technical work to assure that ground-based operators won't suffer from airborne interference.
[42:17.250 --> 42:24.190]  European aviation authorities previously approved the notion of mobile use in the air, and some specific equipment has been certified, too.
[42:24.190 --> 42:26.130]  This comes from PC World, by the way.
[42:26.750 --> 42:40.810]  So it looks like we're going down a road that I really am hesitant to go down, but it sure looks like there will soon be cell phone conversations in the air rather commonly, maybe as commonly as on buses and trains.
[42:41.130 --> 42:46.510]  Well, you did skip one bit of this article, which says that it's going to cost about $2.50 per minute.
[42:46.610 --> 42:48.690]  So hopefully that will deter some people.
[42:48.790 --> 42:49.390]  You really think so?
[42:49.410 --> 42:52.370]  You really think it's going to deter the businessman whose expenses are paid no matter what?
[42:52.370 --> 42:53.230]  He's in business class.
[42:53.230 --> 42:54.070]  I don't have to hear him.
[42:54.170 --> 42:54.930]  He's in first class.
[42:55.170 --> 42:59.030]  The airfare is a fortune already, and you probably will hear him because they talk very loudly.
[43:01.310 --> 43:01.930]  What do you guys...
[43:01.930 --> 43:03.250]  I mean, Redbird, you're a pilot.
[43:03.450 --> 43:05.250]  And by the way, you didn't fly to Cleveland because...
[43:05.250 --> 43:05.710]  We didn't fly.
[43:05.810 --> 43:06.190]  Because of the weather.
[43:06.210 --> 43:07.590]  The weather, I mean, it was incredibly...
[43:07.590 --> 43:09.330]  It was like below IFR minimums.
[43:09.350 --> 43:12.570]  We would have ended up at another airport somewhere else, and it would have ruined our day.
[43:12.670 --> 43:13.890]  So you wound up driving instead.
[43:14.030 --> 43:14.390]  We drove.
[43:14.870 --> 43:16.670]  I drove most of the way, yes.
[43:16.730 --> 43:18.350]  At least, you know, you tried.
[43:19.290 --> 43:23.810]  But I know you said that cell phones interfere when you're flying on an airplane.
[43:23.830 --> 43:31.250]  In the planes that I fly, cell phones interfere all the time in the same way that they interfere with amplified audio circuits in most consumer equipment.
[43:31.490 --> 43:33.830]  And it kind of makes me sad that they're not...
[43:33.830 --> 43:36.330]  That the avionics in these planes aren't better shielded.
[43:36.650 --> 43:38.030]  I would assume that...
[43:38.030 --> 43:43.590]  Well, I wouldn't assume, but I would hope that maybe perhaps the commercial airliners are a little bit more immune to that.
[43:43.590 --> 43:45.070]  But it does interfere.
[43:45.290 --> 43:53.190]  It interferes in the exact same way as you would hear in most of your consumer amplified equipment, where if you have a GSM phone, you hear that obnoxious buzzing sound.
[43:53.570 --> 43:54.430]  You hear the exact same thing.
[43:54.430 --> 43:55.710]  But not GSM phones.
[43:56.150 --> 44:02.850]  Other types of phones that use like CDMA, which is what Verizon and Sprint PCS use, those don't emit the same kind of pulsing signals.
[44:03.250 --> 44:08.610]  So I found that if you hold a GSM phone near a radio or an audio amplifier, you hear this eh-eh-eh-eh-eh-eh.
[44:08.710 --> 44:09.610]  You've probably heard it before.
[44:09.610 --> 44:14.030]  But when you go with a CDMA phone, you hear no interference at all.
[44:14.430 --> 44:17.490]  Now, what kind are they... is this going to be a GSM system or what?
[44:17.570 --> 44:23.130]  Because I know at least... I read an article last week in Finland that next decade they're getting rid of GSM, at least in Finland.
[44:23.330 --> 44:25.090]  They're going to switch just to 3G GSM.
[44:25.230 --> 44:26.310]  They're going to get rid of the 900 megahertz.
[44:26.490 --> 44:28.590]  So like Japan, they're going to use 3G instead.
[44:29.310 --> 44:30.750]  This will be a GSM system.
[44:30.890 --> 44:33.770]  So what about if you fly over a country that doesn't have GSM towers?
[44:34.650 --> 44:35.950]  Well, it doesn't matter.
[44:36.430 --> 44:40.470]  The signal doesn't go from the cell phone handsets on the plane.
[44:40.570 --> 44:46.650]  The signal goes from the cell phone handset to the plane to what's called a nanocell, like a micro-repeater, on the plane.
[44:46.790 --> 44:51.470]  And then it's fed by a satellite uplink, a low-Earth orbiting satellite.
[44:51.730 --> 44:56.550]  And then from there, it's sent down to another ground station and then to the public switch telephone network.
[44:56.890 --> 44:59.170]  You're not hitting cell sites on the ground with your cell phone.
[44:59.690 --> 45:04.570]  Although, haven't we said that you could reach them with a cell phone?
[45:04.570 --> 45:11.070]  Above a certain altitude, it doesn't seem to work very well, primarily because of the way the antennas are oriented on the cell towers.
[45:11.270 --> 45:17.910]  They're sort of angled down on purpose to keep the cells kind of compacted.
[45:18.030 --> 45:20.410]  There are multiple cells that make up the network.
[45:20.410 --> 45:31.890]  And you don't want cells interfering with adjacent cells that are on the same frequency or cells that aren't necessarily adjacent to, but in close proximity to cells that are operating on the same frequencies.
[45:31.890 --> 45:35.690]  So they sort of angle the antennas down, and it doesn't help when you're in a plane.
[45:35.910 --> 45:38.590]  So above a certain altitude, it doesn't seem to work at all.
[45:38.750 --> 45:39.810]  If you're only a couple of...
[45:39.810 --> 45:42.490]  If you're like 1,000 or 2,000 feet above the ground, it seems to work.
[45:42.650 --> 45:42.830]  Okay.
[45:42.890 --> 45:45.650]  Well, I think basically the gist of this is that it will work.
[45:45.790 --> 45:49.270]  People will be able to make phone calls as much as they want on airplanes at some point.
[45:49.490 --> 45:50.310]  And I just...
[45:50.310 --> 46:01.890]  I don't think that's going to be a very good thing because airplane travel, as it is, is stressful and uncomfortable enough without having some idiot next to you talking about his personal life to somebody that's not even there in loud tones.
[46:02.130 --> 46:04.050]  Sorry to go back to Finland, but I have been living there.
[46:04.310 --> 46:08.890]  There was actually, on the metro, it works, underground, your cell phone in Finland.
[46:09.030 --> 46:09.450]  In Germany too, yes.
[46:09.650 --> 46:18.030]  And there was actually, I don't know, I think it was like a public service kind of advertisement on the subways that were saying that nobody else wants to hear your conversation.
[46:18.170 --> 46:18.290]  Right.
[46:18.690 --> 46:19.150]  But you see...
[46:19.150 --> 46:19.490]  They had to add...
[46:19.490 --> 46:20.530]  I guess people...
[46:20.530 --> 46:21.730]  I never really noticed it.
[46:21.770 --> 46:22.510]  What I noticed in Berlin...
[46:22.510 --> 46:24.590]  But they had this public service thing going on.
[46:24.590 --> 46:28.390]  What I noticed in Berlin on the subway is that people aren't talking that loudly.
[46:28.570 --> 46:30.830]  In fact, I guess it's because the trains aren't that loud to start with.
[46:31.050 --> 46:33.750]  But I don't even know people are on the cell phone there, so it doesn't bother me.
[46:33.850 --> 46:37.490]  But, I mean, so many times people are on phones...
[46:37.490 --> 46:39.170]  Like this guy in Long Island, have you heard about this?
[46:39.170 --> 46:50.250]  The guy in the Long Island Railroad, just yesterday, he was found not guilty for third-degree assault and other charges, including attempted petty larceny, secondary harassment, and disorderly conduct.
[46:50.610 --> 46:53.210]  Apparently, this guy is a retired cop.
[46:53.770 --> 47:04.970]  He took great offense at people using cell phones around him and basically did such things as snap his fingers at people and slapped them at one point.
[47:05.530 --> 47:09.890]  But the prosecution said that he cursed at somebody and called them a slur.
[47:10.370 --> 47:12.270]  And I guess that's an insult to call somebody a slur.
[47:12.330 --> 47:14.690]  He should have just built one of those circuits that they...
[47:14.690 --> 47:15.110]  What is it?
[47:15.170 --> 47:16.310]  The make people have a circuit for?
[47:16.550 --> 47:16.910]  Yeah.
[47:17.610 --> 47:18.810]  All kinds of bizarreness.
[47:18.910 --> 47:19.010]  Cell phone jammer.
[47:19.390 --> 47:20.770]  Well, you know, that's what I'm worried about.
[47:20.990 --> 47:22.010]  Cell phone jammers are fine.
[47:22.130 --> 47:31.390]  But I'm worried that some clown is going to take a cell phone jammer onto an airplane now and turn that on and jam all kinds of things he didn't intend on jamming in the first place and cause another kind of hazard.
[47:32.030 --> 47:33.090]  I'm just worried about that.
[47:33.190 --> 47:34.530]  I would recommend against that.
[47:34.530 --> 47:41.210]  But cell phone jammers tend to be like homebrew, sort of not well regulated in terms of special output.
[47:41.490 --> 47:41.590]  Probably stronger.
[47:41.750 --> 47:45.130]  I almost brought my cell phone jammer on a commercial flight to Cleveland.
[47:45.210 --> 47:50.870]  And I realized, you know, if they ask me what this thing is, it's just going to be a long, huge debate about whether this is legal or not.
[47:50.870 --> 47:51.710]  I don't want to get into it.
[47:51.730 --> 47:52.290]  So I didn't bring it.
[47:52.450 --> 47:53.250]  Well, you could have put it in.
[47:53.290 --> 47:53.770]  Just check it.
[47:53.770 --> 47:54.070]  Check it.
[47:54.250 --> 47:54.890]  Yeah, check luggage.
[47:55.030 --> 47:56.690]  Yeah, except that would have been the only thing I was checking.
[47:56.770 --> 47:58.890]  That would have looked very suspicious because I never check bags.
[47:59.670 --> 48:00.890]  212-209-2900.
[48:01.090 --> 48:03.690]  Let's see who's out there in the remaining time that we have left.
[48:04.530 --> 48:05.970]  Let's go up here.
[48:06.810 --> 48:07.710]  And good evening.
[48:07.830 --> 48:08.410]  You're on Off the Hook.
[48:09.390 --> 48:09.930]  Hi there.
[48:10.530 --> 48:11.370]  Gene here.
[48:11.710 --> 48:13.550]  I haven't talked to you for a long time.
[48:14.350 --> 48:20.650]  Anybody there involving knowing where the digital frequency band is now?
[48:21.630 --> 48:23.110]  What digital frequency band?
[48:23.310 --> 48:23.870]  For TV.
[48:23.870 --> 48:24.290]  For TV, yeah.
[48:24.970 --> 48:29.390]  The VH channels, I think they've been shifted.
[48:29.390 --> 48:30.670]  But where are they shifting them to?
[48:31.590 --> 48:33.290]  Do we have the actual frequencies?
[48:35.650 --> 48:42.670]  Well, they're occupying the same space as the TV channels used to be.
[48:42.790 --> 48:45.410]  I don't think there's as much spectrum allocated to them.
[48:45.530 --> 48:46.850]  I don't have the exact ranges.
[48:47.430 --> 48:51.390]  But a portion of that is obviously being auctioned off, as we've mentioned.
[48:51.390 --> 48:54.530]  And then the remaining portion is being used for digital television.
[48:55.210 --> 48:56.130]  Are they going to...
[48:56.130 --> 48:56.490]  So they're going to...
[48:56.490 --> 48:58.290]  It's generally in the UHF range.
[48:58.450 --> 49:00.930]  Like, if you have a UHF antenna, if that's what you're worried about, you'll...
[49:00.930 --> 49:05.570]  If you have a UHF antenna that was designed to receive UHF televisions prior to the switch...
[49:05.570 --> 49:08.070]  Well, I'm particularly thinking of channels 2 to 13.
[49:08.070 --> 49:09.630]  Are they shifting them all up there somewhere?
[49:09.930 --> 49:11.810]  Yeah, everything is being moved.
[49:12.070 --> 49:12.330]  I mean, you're...
[49:12.330 --> 49:12.690]  Much higher.
[49:13.150 --> 49:13.430]  Yeah.
[49:13.430 --> 49:16.690]  Do you currently use over-the-air antenna to pick up TV?
[49:16.970 --> 49:17.490]  That's right.
[49:17.630 --> 49:17.750]  Yeah.
[49:17.850 --> 49:19.970]  So you're going to have to get one of those converter boxes.
[49:20.390 --> 49:20.690]  Oh, yeah.
[49:20.730 --> 49:21.950]  Well, I know all about that stuff.
[49:21.950 --> 49:23.350]  But I didn't know...
[49:23.350 --> 49:25.410]  You know, I saw the antennas coming out.
[49:25.530 --> 49:27.270]  They're built for UHF.
[49:27.530 --> 49:30.230]  But I didn't know where they were shifting these things to, you know.
[49:30.550 --> 49:33.630]  The only articles I've ever seen in this stuff, they don't really get into that.
[49:33.730 --> 49:39.910]  They get into most of the politics, the breaking up of the ban, the auctioning off of the stuff and everything else.
[49:40.010 --> 49:42.370]  But they don't really get into the technical part, okay?
[49:42.370 --> 49:44.610]  So I didn't know where to follow it and everything.
[49:44.830 --> 49:49.210]  So I just wondered, you know, if you had heard something, you know, it's concrete or whatever, you know.
[49:49.290 --> 49:52.310]  But you're questioning this just as much as I am.
[49:52.410 --> 49:55.910]  Well, the locations vary by region, I believe.
[49:56.070 --> 50:06.250]  And if you have a digital TV receiver that reports the frequencies, what it'll do is it'll basically scan for all the channels that are available in the area and then give you the frequencies.
[50:06.250 --> 50:14.810]  And it seems to me like, from my experience with those frequencies around here in the New York area, they tend to range from like 400 to 700 megahertz, if that's what you're asking.
[50:15.430 --> 50:15.830]  Well...
[50:15.830 --> 50:17.310]  But it'll vary by area.
[50:17.430 --> 50:22.090]  For instance, it's not going to be like channel 2 is a set frequency everywhere.
[50:22.090 --> 50:30.770]  So what used to be, you know, what used to be channel 2 CBS here is now the equivalent of ATSC channel, you know, something else that doesn't relate to the number 2.
[50:30.770 --> 50:34.390]  Well, this is getting as complicated as trunking communications now.
[50:34.610 --> 50:37.570]  Yeah, it's getting pretty crazy.
[50:37.610 --> 50:39.150]  And I don't really see the need for it.
[50:39.230 --> 50:42.270]  But apparently a year from now, we're going to be in it whether we like it or not.
[50:42.370 --> 50:44.570]  And I'm very curious how that turns out.
[50:44.790 --> 50:47.050]  I wish they'd put some new stuff on there that I'd be interested in.
[50:47.130 --> 50:48.250]  It's the same old stuff, you know.
[50:48.730 --> 50:49.110]  All right.
[50:49.210 --> 50:51.530]  But one extra, one other question.
[50:51.850 --> 50:52.650]  Is Bernie there?
[50:52.990 --> 50:53.430]  Bernie's here.
[50:53.450 --> 50:53.870]  I'm here.
[50:54.110 --> 50:55.650]  Bernie, this is Gene.
[50:55.890 --> 50:58.990]  I tried to get, I lost track of you a few years back.
[50:58.990 --> 51:01.990]  Mike, if you'll take my phone number and give me a call when you can.
[51:02.130 --> 51:03.050]  I'm going to tell you what I'll be, okay?
[51:03.170 --> 51:04.870]  If you have email, just email me.
[51:04.930 --> 51:06.570]  What I'm going to do is I'm going to turn you down.
[51:06.570 --> 51:07.730]  I think you two can hear each other.
[51:07.910 --> 51:08.490]  Go ahead.
[51:08.690 --> 51:09.870]  And you'll hear me too, though.
[51:10.010 --> 51:11.090]  But give him your phone number.
[51:11.170 --> 51:13.530]  I'll give you about 10 seconds, and we're going to go on to the next call.
[51:13.610 --> 51:14.090]  Mike, you had a point?
[51:14.290 --> 51:22.950]  Yeah, on related news, I've received, and we got emails from a lot of our listeners who received, I guess the government sent out a batch of these DTV box coupons.
[51:23.570 --> 51:26.090]  So now I have one, and I don't know what to do with it.
[51:26.230 --> 51:26.970]  Everyone got them.
[51:26.990 --> 51:27.870]  I didn't get mine.
[51:27.950 --> 51:28.650]  I didn't get mine.
[51:28.650 --> 51:31.510]  Are they doing the switch to digital, all digital here?
[51:31.770 --> 51:31.910]  Yep.
[51:32.170 --> 51:32.930]  They did that in Finland.
[51:33.110 --> 51:33.590]  It was fine.
[51:33.750 --> 51:34.810]  It was pretty seamless.
[51:34.910 --> 51:35.370]  It looks great.
[51:35.490 --> 51:36.530]  I mean, it looks good.
[51:37.150 --> 51:40.010]  I mean, as long as you have a good place to put the antenna.
[51:40.530 --> 51:40.810]  Okay.
[51:41.070 --> 51:43.170]  If they had some content, that would improve a lot.
[51:43.170 --> 51:44.270]  Bernie, did you get that phone number?
[51:44.510 --> 51:46.430]  No, the bridge was not working when...
[51:46.430 --> 51:47.010]  I'm sorry.
[51:47.370 --> 51:47.990]  Well, the nice...
[51:47.990 --> 51:50.210]  You can just email me at bernies at 2600.com.
[51:50.290 --> 51:50.610]  There you go.
[51:50.670 --> 51:51.550]  Now let's take another phone call.
[51:51.870 --> 51:52.390]  Good evening.
[51:52.590 --> 51:53.310]  You're on off the hook.
[51:53.750 --> 51:54.190]  Hi there.
[51:54.330 --> 51:54.770]  How are you doing?
[51:54.850 --> 51:55.230]  Am I on?
[51:55.370 --> 51:55.930]  You're on the air.
[51:58.650 --> 52:05.670]  The first thing is all the specs for the frequencies for high-def digital television are all at FCC.gov.
[52:05.790 --> 52:06.090]  Right.
[52:06.190 --> 52:06.830]  With all the specs.
[52:06.990 --> 52:07.790]  That's a no-brainer.
[52:07.910 --> 52:09.710]  What would you look under there to see that?
[52:09.810 --> 52:11.170]  They have a search engine on there.
[52:11.310 --> 52:14.490]  You just put frequencies, space, high definition, and quotes.
[52:14.630 --> 52:14.650]  Okay.
[52:14.650 --> 52:14.850]  All right.
[52:14.850 --> 52:29.590]  The second thing is the reason you don't hear people shouting on cell phones in Germany and the subways and all those other places is that unlike the phones that are sold in the United States, those all have between 6 and 12 dB of side tone.
[52:29.810 --> 52:33.410]  So you hear yourself on European purchase cell phones.
[52:33.570 --> 52:33.810]  Really?
[52:33.930 --> 52:34.690]  You don't hear that here.
[52:34.810 --> 52:34.950]  Yeah.
[52:35.050 --> 52:36.270]  You know what I mean by side tone?
[52:36.270 --> 52:38.530]  I haven't noticed that on...
[52:38.530 --> 52:41.230]  I have not noticed that between the cell phone models.
[52:41.610 --> 52:44.510]  And the third thing is just a shout-out to Eric.
[52:44.650 --> 52:45.390]  Eric, how are you doing?
[52:45.470 --> 52:46.390]  Good to hear you on the air.
[52:46.570 --> 52:46.950]  All right, Eric.
[52:47.010 --> 52:47.230]  All right.
[52:47.350 --> 52:49.070]  Thanks, Eric, whoever you are.
[52:49.470 --> 52:49.870]  Okay.
[52:50.010 --> 52:51.830]  212-209-2900.
[52:51.950 --> 52:52.250]  Good evening.
[52:52.370 --> 52:53.210]  You're on off the hook.
[52:53.910 --> 52:54.310]  Yes.
[52:54.390 --> 52:54.590]  Hi.
[52:54.810 --> 52:57.050]  My question is regarding AT&T.
[52:57.050 --> 53:05.990]  I heard that they will transfer the smartphones that they are on the network to the new 3G network, whatever.
[53:06.190 --> 53:07.210]  Did you hear anything about that?
[53:07.290 --> 53:08.110]  I have not heard that.
[53:08.430 --> 53:10.510]  If the hardware doesn't support it, you can't do that.
[53:10.630 --> 53:10.790]  Yeah.
[53:11.070 --> 53:13.570]  But then that's your fault for not having the right kind of hardware.
[53:13.570 --> 53:15.330]  Well, you'd have to purchase a new headset, yes.
[53:15.670 --> 53:15.870]  Right.
[53:16.650 --> 53:21.090]  But didn't AT&T already make people jump through a hoop to do the whole singular transfer?
[53:21.270 --> 53:22.690]  They had to get new headsets or handsets, rather?
[53:22.890 --> 53:23.330]  No, no.
[53:23.390 --> 53:23.970]  It wasn't a big deal.
[53:24.170 --> 53:24.390]  Okay.
[53:25.250 --> 53:25.430]  All right.
[53:25.430 --> 53:28.070]  So you do not recommend having a smartphone on AT&T?
[53:28.470 --> 53:28.830]  No.
[53:29.010 --> 53:30.450]  I mean, AT&T works fine for me.
[53:30.990 --> 53:32.090]  I'm an AT&T customer.
[53:32.290 --> 53:34.390]  And it's just a matter of using their UMTS network.
[53:34.530 --> 53:34.910]  It's not...
[53:34.910 --> 53:39.030]  If you don't have equipment that can do that, it's not going to work on the 3G network.
[53:40.350 --> 53:42.930]  Any particular network that is good in 3G?
[53:44.350 --> 53:46.210]  AT&T is fine in 3G service.
[53:46.310 --> 53:47.830]  You just have to have the equipment to support it.
[53:48.070 --> 53:48.410]  Okay.
[53:48.450 --> 53:50.170]  I think we've gone over this as much as we possibly can.
[53:50.370 --> 53:51.310]  Let's take one more call.
[53:51.510 --> 53:51.890]  Good evening.
[53:52.370 --> 53:53.170]  You're on off the hook.
[53:53.710 --> 53:54.050]  Yes.
[53:54.130 --> 53:54.410]  Hi there.
[53:54.410 --> 53:56.750]  I'd like to make a pledge for a couple of Hope tickets.
[53:56.930 --> 53:57.370]  My goodness.
[53:57.510 --> 53:59.450]  Well, we're not offering that tonight on this show.
[53:59.650 --> 54:01.550]  That was yesterday's show on the other station.
[54:01.590 --> 54:08.090]  But if you tune in in May, we might have something on this station as far as fundraisers for our spring fundraiser.
[54:08.210 --> 54:08.970]  That's the spring one, right?
[54:09.070 --> 54:09.170]  Yeah.
[54:09.330 --> 54:10.030]  Looking forward to that.
[54:10.030 --> 54:10.430]  All right.
[54:10.550 --> 54:10.670]  All right.
[54:10.670 --> 54:11.170]  Yes, we always do.
[54:11.710 --> 54:12.290]  Good evening.
[54:12.430 --> 54:13.010]  You're on off the hook.
[54:15.090 --> 54:19.890]  I had a couple of questions about radio frequency absorption.
[54:20.190 --> 54:20.590]  Okay.
[54:20.770 --> 54:21.330]  Make it fast.
[54:22.450 --> 54:23.430]  Regarding cell phone use.
[54:24.150 --> 54:28.490]  So, you were talking about these different protocols, you know, 3G and these other things.
[54:28.490 --> 54:29.010]  Mm-hmm.
[54:29.090 --> 54:37.810]  And I was wondering, is there any difference in the way that those affect us using cell phones, those different types?
[54:38.750 --> 54:50.730]  I will continue to argue that the RF emitted by these things, even in the microwave frequency range, even at the highest frequency of, like, 1900 megahertz, it's not ionizing radiation.
[54:50.730 --> 54:53.550]  It's not going to mutate your DNA or do anything that...
[54:53.550 --> 55:01.710]  The only thing that it could do is possibly heat up your tissue, which may cause problems, but it's not like ionizing radiation, like, if you stuck your hand in an x-ray machine.
[55:01.750 --> 55:03.390]  It's not, like, going to mutate your DNA.
[55:04.090 --> 55:06.590]  So, that's the argument that I have along those lines.
[55:06.670 --> 55:08.250]  And you can actually research this.
[55:08.290 --> 55:13.810]  Look for the difference between ionizing radiation, and you'll see that it doesn't actually occur up until the UV range.
[55:15.290 --> 55:18.210]  Okay, well, that's still a controversy.
[55:18.410 --> 55:18.770]  Yeah, go ahead, Bernie.
[55:19.070 --> 55:25.590]  If you have a concern about this, you can easily avoid the problem by using a wired, hands-free headset.
[55:25.790 --> 55:28.490]  Not a wireless one, because the Bluetooth frequencies will get into your brain, too.
[55:28.670 --> 55:29.670]  But a wired...
[55:29.670 --> 55:42.970]  A friend of mine, a friend of ours, Mitch Altman, the TV gun inventor, he keeps his GSM cell phone in a bag, in a shoulder bag, away from his body, with a wired headset, because he's a little concerned about that.
[55:42.970 --> 55:48.630]  So, that is a workaround, and Mitch is a very good engineer and has figured out something that satisfies his concerns.
[55:48.810 --> 55:52.850]  And we should not necessarily laugh at people who are concerned about this.
[55:52.890 --> 55:56.630]  I know a lot of people do that, and the fact of the matter is, these are new devices.
[55:56.650 --> 56:00.350]  These are things that have just been introduced in the last decade or so.
[56:00.350 --> 56:02.690]  We don't know what kind of health effects they will have on people.
[56:03.170 --> 56:07.150]  The jury's out on that, and I'll bet another generation will know a whole lot more about that.
[56:07.270 --> 56:09.170]  And we'll have nanobots to fix it.
[56:09.170 --> 56:09.930]  Well, okay.
[56:10.370 --> 56:10.730]  Yes.
[56:11.410 --> 56:13.050]  Get the Finnish engineers on that.
[56:13.170 --> 56:14.470]  I'm sure he's way ahead of us.
[56:15.350 --> 56:20.410]  I want to thank everybody for being a part of the show, for calling in, and for participating.
[56:20.650 --> 56:23.890]  Our email address, othat2600.com.
[56:24.470 --> 56:25.130]  Write to us.
[56:25.190 --> 56:28.950]  We'd love to hear what you have to say, opinions, criticisms, that kind of thing.
[56:28.950 --> 56:35.010]  And again, for those of you interested in being a part of the HOPE Conference, www.hope.net.
[56:35.170 --> 56:37.110]  If you want to be a speaker, speakers at hope.net.
[56:38.110 --> 56:38.470]  Volunteers?
[56:38.470 --> 56:39.650]  Volunteers at hope.net.
[56:39.970 --> 56:42.850]  And if you want to be a vendor, vendors at hope.net.
[56:42.950 --> 56:46.110]  Remember, July 18, 19, and 20 in New York City.
[56:46.270 --> 56:47.430]  It's Emmanuel for Off the Hook.
[56:47.870 --> 56:48.990]  Have yourselves a good night.
[58:56.630 --> 58:57.750]  Ah, yeah.
[58:58.150 --> 58:59.990]  Hey, hey, hey out there.
[58:59.990 --> 59:05.870]  All the way in, let's say, Rutherford, New Jersey to the Bronics or all over.