[00:00.000 --> 00:01.480]  ...and listener supporters.
[00:01.820 --> 00:07.840]  You can send us your comments, questions, and story ideas to comments at fsrn.org.
[00:08.140 --> 00:11.660]  That's comments at fsrn.org.
[00:12.140 --> 00:15.020]  Today's newscast was produced by Monica Lopez.
[00:15.420 --> 00:17.560]  Our headlines editor is Shannon Young.
[00:17.860 --> 00:19.120]  Our Washington, D.C.
[00:19.260 --> 00:20.620]  editor is Leanne Caldwell.
[00:20.800 --> 00:26.120]  Our technical production team at KPFA in Berkeley includes Puck Lowe and Oscar Hernandez.
[00:26.560 --> 00:29.540]  From KPFK in L.A., I'm Aura Bogado.
[00:34.250 --> 00:38.450]  And you're listening to radio station WBAI New York, where the time is exactly 7 o'clock.
[00:38.730 --> 00:41.350]  That means, once again, it's time for Off the Hook.
[02:03.100 --> 02:04.520]  And a very good evening to everybody.
[02:04.620 --> 02:06.120]  The program is Off the Hook.
[02:06.120 --> 02:11.020]  I'm back again for a third week of the spring fundraiser.
[02:11.480 --> 02:13.700]  I want to thank everybody who called in the last couple of weeks.
[02:14.460 --> 02:15.660]  We're doing really well.
[02:17.580 --> 02:21.760]  And hopefully tonight will be no exception, as we have a very special program coming your way.
[02:26.320 --> 02:31.560]  Joining us in the studio this evening is Mike over there.
[02:31.900 --> 02:32.320]  Hi.
[02:33.040 --> 02:34.440]  On the other side of the room is not Kevin.
[02:34.920 --> 02:35.320]  Hello.
[02:35.540 --> 02:36.360]  Did I say who I was?
[02:36.940 --> 02:38.840]  No, I think I didn't say who I was.
[02:38.900 --> 02:39.260]  How about that?
[02:39.680 --> 02:41.580]  Down in Philadelphia is Bernie S.
[02:42.080 --> 02:43.140]  Greetings from Philadelphia.
[02:43.780 --> 02:48.840]  Now, we have three, count them, three special guests joining us tonight.
[02:50.240 --> 02:52.600]  Right here in the studio is our good friend, Mitch Altman.
[02:52.880 --> 02:53.280]  Hello.
[02:53.540 --> 02:56.140]  Inventor of the TV Be Gone and the TV Be Gone Pro.
[02:57.700 --> 03:03.120]  And, yes, and also joining us in the studio is our good friend, Mark Tobias.
[03:03.340 --> 03:03.700]  Good evening.
[03:04.020 --> 03:05.740]  And I think you haven't actually been here before, have you?
[03:05.840 --> 03:06.680]  No, sir, I have not.
[03:06.880 --> 03:09.760]  Now, you are a very famous and respected person.
[03:09.760 --> 03:14.000]  And we are going to explain to the folks who might not know that why that is in the course of this hour.
[03:14.440 --> 03:28.240]  And by the end of this hour, I predict people will be clamoring not only to get a hold of the book that you put together, but to come to the Hope Conference to see you in person and to see all the other things that you have to say.
[03:28.940 --> 03:34.960]  And also joining us from the delightful city of Amsterdam in the Netherlands is our good friend, Barry the Key.
[03:35.720 --> 03:36.920]  Hey, good evening, Emmanuel.
[03:37.180 --> 03:37.940]  Very good evening to you.
[03:38.060 --> 03:39.440]  It's 1 o'clock in the morning over there, isn't it?
[03:39.860 --> 03:40.760]  Yes, that's correct.
[03:40.880 --> 03:45.180]  And I just came back from a tool club evening, the lockpick club evening.
[03:45.320 --> 03:46.440]  The lockpick club, yes.
[03:46.760 --> 03:47.700]  So I'm still awake.
[03:47.900 --> 03:48.580]  Okay, great.
[03:48.720 --> 03:51.220]  Well, it's good to hear your voice again.
[03:51.240 --> 03:53.860]  And, of course, we're looking forward to seeing you at the Hope Conference as well.
[03:55.120 --> 03:58.480]  First, let's quickly go over what we've been up to in the last week.
[03:58.740 --> 04:00.920]  A bunch of us went over to Dayton.
[04:01.560 --> 04:03.720]  Bernie, I believe I saw you at some point over there.
[04:03.820 --> 04:04.320]  You went too?
[04:04.960 --> 04:05.260]  Yes.
[04:05.260 --> 04:15.860]  The Dayton Hamvention, probably one of the world's largest gathering of communications and radio geeks and just general hackers.
[04:16.280 --> 04:17.560]  General hackers, yes.
[04:17.980 --> 04:18.940]  General hackers.
[04:18.940 --> 04:20.800]  Not major hackers, but general hackers.
[04:21.160 --> 04:21.440]  Yeah.
[04:21.700 --> 04:23.020]  There's a few major hackers there.
[04:23.140 --> 04:25.600]  Do you remember Major Hacking from Beyond Hope?
[04:26.000 --> 04:26.880]  That's right, the cookie guy.
[04:26.940 --> 04:27.460]  The cookie guy.
[04:27.580 --> 04:28.480]  This is a good story.
[04:28.600 --> 04:31.640]  Back in 1997, we had our second conference called Beyond Hope.
[04:31.640 --> 04:35.880]  And we found this brand of chocolate chip cookie called Major Hacking.
[04:36.160 --> 04:40.760]  And we tracked it down, and there was actually this old British guy whose last name was Hacking.
[04:40.800 --> 04:42.780]  And he happened to be a major in the British Army.
[04:42.900 --> 04:46.460]  And he had come to New York and decided to make cookies for a living.
[04:47.000 --> 04:49.200]  And so we invited him to the conference, brought him up on stage.
[04:49.200 --> 04:50.220]  He seemed a bit bewildered.
[04:50.220 --> 04:51.540]  He was in his 80s, I think.
[04:52.160 --> 04:53.900]  But he was warmly received.
[04:54.020 --> 04:57.900]  In fact, if you listen to the radio show we did from there, you will hear the voice of Major Hacking.
[04:57.900 --> 04:59.660]  So that's what that reference is all about.
[05:00.240 --> 05:01.460]  Yeah, we have so many stories.
[05:02.460 --> 05:05.020]  Now, anything memorable this particular time in Dayton, Bernie?
[05:05.820 --> 05:09.600]  Well, we just ran into a lot of friends.
[05:09.760 --> 05:11.160]  Made a lot of new friends, as usual.
[05:11.900 --> 05:15.240]  Promoted the upcoming Hope Conference, The Last Hope.
[05:15.400 --> 05:16.320]  We made a few enemies, too.
[05:16.400 --> 05:17.060]  Didn't we make some enemies?
[05:17.140 --> 05:18.520]  It's always interesting when you make new enemies.
[05:18.780 --> 05:19.400]  Plenty of enemies.
[05:20.280 --> 05:22.060]  I don't recall making any this year.
[05:22.220 --> 05:26.120]  Well, now Kevin and I stayed on a military base, so we have all sorts of new enemies.
[05:26.120 --> 05:28.740]  No, actually, we got along quite well with the people there.
[05:29.880 --> 05:31.640]  I guess you didn't actually see where we stayed.
[05:31.740 --> 05:33.200]  We stayed at this place called The Hope Hotel.
[05:33.340 --> 05:34.180]  I'm not making this up.
[05:34.300 --> 05:36.420]  We really found a hotel called The Hope Hotel.
[05:36.920 --> 05:39.740]  And it's on the Wright-Patterson Air Force Base.
[05:39.960 --> 05:41.600]  It literally is behind the walls.
[05:41.780 --> 05:43.500]  And I have to say, what would you say, Kevin?
[05:43.620 --> 05:49.720]  That maybe 90% plus of the people there were military and were dressed in all sorts of weird outfits.
[05:49.880 --> 05:51.080]  I put it at 91%.
[05:51.080 --> 05:52.320]  Yeah, it was incredible.
[05:52.660 --> 05:54.380]  And they assumed we were military, too.
[05:54.380 --> 05:56.480]  We sort of looked ominous.
[05:56.700 --> 05:59.100]  And they gave us the military discount without any questions asked.
[05:59.840 --> 06:00.780]  A military discount?
[06:00.780 --> 06:01.560]  That's kind of cool.
[06:01.680 --> 06:02.760]  I've never gotten that in my life.
[06:02.940 --> 06:03.460]  How about you, Mitch?
[06:03.540 --> 06:04.400]  Have you gotten a military discount?
[06:04.560 --> 06:04.920]  Never.
[06:05.160 --> 06:06.500]  Yeah, you strike me as somebody who could do it.
[06:06.880 --> 06:07.860]  I'll try next time.
[06:09.200 --> 06:10.440]  So, yeah, we stayed there.
[06:10.560 --> 06:16.300]  And, you know, The Hope Hotel, it's not named after hackers on planet Earth or anything that we're affiliated with.
[06:16.360 --> 06:16.920]  It's not?
[06:17.080 --> 06:17.400]  No, it's not.
[06:17.400 --> 06:20.420]  You should get that changed so it becomes retroactively named.
[06:20.440 --> 06:23.380]  It's not named after Hope, Faith, and Charity, or any of that kind of nonsense.
[06:24.380 --> 06:25.200]  It's named after Bob Hope.
[06:25.400 --> 06:25.840]  That's right.
[06:25.940 --> 06:27.800]  I was going to guess Bill Clinton's hometown.
[06:28.100 --> 06:29.020]  Well, that, too.
[06:29.240 --> 06:29.640]  That, too.
[06:29.700 --> 06:32.680]  But, no, this is Bob Hope because Bob Hope used to go and entertain the troops.
[06:32.980 --> 06:40.840]  And there's this whole big, like, shrine to him downstairs in the lobby with all kinds of pictures of Bob Hope over the years.
[06:41.000 --> 06:46.140]  And that's where we stayed at the Bob Hope Memorial Hotel on Wright-Patterson Air Force Base.
[06:46.140 --> 06:47.640]  So it was pretty unusual for us.
[06:47.920 --> 06:50.360]  And we like to make it unusual every year.
[06:51.320 --> 06:55.660]  So, Bernie, any memories of anything unusual that might have happened this year that made it stick out for you?
[06:56.020 --> 06:56.760]  Nothing specific.
[06:56.900 --> 07:03.400]  I just really enjoy meeting thousands of people who are all interested in communications technology in one way or another.
[07:03.600 --> 07:04.720]  Some of them work in the field.
[07:04.840 --> 07:08.440]  For some people, it's just a hobby or just a side interest.
[07:08.440 --> 07:14.060]  But it's just a great diversity of people, from children to people probably in their 80s or 90s.
[07:14.120 --> 07:16.180]  And there's a diversity of people from around the world, too.
[07:16.760 --> 07:22.220]  People from a lot of different countries, including the Far East, Eastern and Western Europe, South America.
[07:22.600 --> 07:27.380]  It's just a really good, interesting bunch of people who are all interested in communications technology.
[07:27.640 --> 07:29.100]  You always see people from Japan there.
[07:29.160 --> 07:30.460]  I saw a crowd of people from Italy.
[07:31.520 --> 07:33.320]  And, you know, there was a smart car there, too.
[07:33.580 --> 07:36.520]  There was a smart car right inside the display area.
[07:37.200 --> 07:37.960]  It was white.
[07:38.100 --> 07:39.960]  But it wasn't being displayed because it was a smart car.
[07:40.060 --> 07:42.980]  It was being displayed because of the way the guy had set up all the antennas on it.
[07:43.620 --> 07:44.660]  And people were crowding around.
[07:44.740 --> 07:46.880]  But then I found myself answering questions about the smart car.
[07:46.940 --> 07:48.480]  Because people were saying, hey, who makes this car?
[07:48.540 --> 07:49.660]  And I had to answer them, of course.
[07:50.200 --> 07:51.720]  And all sorts of things were...
[07:51.720 --> 07:53.580]  I became a smart car salesman at that point.
[07:53.720 --> 07:58.820]  And we also, on the subject of smart cars, while we were driving in West Virginia, we saw...
[07:58.820 --> 08:00.620]  We were ahead of you, actually, in the 2600 van.
[08:01.100 --> 08:02.640]  Not only were you seeing one in West Virginia.
[08:03.200 --> 08:04.600]  We saw one in Dayton, Ohio.
[08:04.860 --> 08:04.980]  Right.
[08:05.060 --> 08:05.860]  We saw two, actually.
[08:05.860 --> 08:09.760]  Actually, not counting the one that was in the Dayton arena.
[08:10.360 --> 08:12.520]  But the one we saw in West Virginia, it was on the interstate.
[08:12.660 --> 08:17.580]  We were driving on I-70 heading west, and we saw a little yellow one heading east.
[08:17.900 --> 08:22.360]  And we called back to you guys in the car to say there was a smart car heading your way.
[08:22.480 --> 08:25.100]  And you guys were ready to take a picture of it.
[08:25.680 --> 08:34.340]  Yes, but then just as it approached us, a police officer appeared in the median strip kind of thing.
[08:34.340 --> 08:36.880]  And we were startled by that, and I didn't get the picture.
[08:37.020 --> 08:38.100]  But it was a yellow smart car.
[08:38.120 --> 08:40.360]  It was interesting to see one on the road.
[08:40.500 --> 08:49.860]  I should also point out that that police car that you saw was actually unoccupied because we saw the same one, and it was just sitting in the median as a way to trick you into thinking there was a cop there.
[08:50.320 --> 08:51.700]  And it did a good job of doing that.
[08:52.040 --> 08:54.800]  Prevented you from getting a picture of the smart car, so the police win again.
[08:55.440 --> 09:04.000]  I think my favorite part of the Dayton handvention is the van that brings out all the old AT&T and Ma Bell employees who just love to tell their stories, how much they hate the company.
[09:04.000 --> 09:09.180]  We get people who come by and they sort of whisper to us, you know, I built a blue box once.
[09:09.320 --> 09:11.960]  I was a phone freak.
[09:12.080 --> 09:14.360]  I invented... or I know the guy who invented it.
[09:14.460 --> 09:16.300]  This blind phone freak I used to hang out with.
[09:16.640 --> 09:17.600]  They all have these stories.
[09:17.720 --> 09:18.740]  Some people were linesmen.
[09:18.880 --> 09:19.980]  Some people were operators.
[09:20.160 --> 09:21.020]  Some people were technicians.
[09:21.660 --> 09:23.760]  But they always sort of give us a wink and a nod.
[09:23.900 --> 09:27.580]  But none of us would give us their credit cards because we were taking credit cards.
[09:27.760 --> 09:29.080]  Well, actually, we got four people to do it.
[09:29.080 --> 09:29.580]  We got four.
[09:29.760 --> 09:31.360]  Yeah, but we had to work hard.
[09:31.360 --> 09:31.820]  Weird.
[09:31.820 --> 09:32.140]  It's weird.
[09:32.240 --> 09:36.400]  People assume that because we're hackers that we're going to do something untoward with the credit card information.
[09:37.060 --> 09:38.700]  And that's not the case at the Hope Conference.
[09:38.840 --> 09:40.940]  We have the credit card machines there and everybody uses them.
[09:41.500 --> 09:42.860]  It's kind of a cool device, too.
[09:43.000 --> 09:43.940]  We just got a new one.
[09:44.260 --> 09:44.980]  It's wireless.
[09:45.360 --> 09:47.000]  And it looks like a cell phone.
[09:47.100 --> 09:47.720]  It is a cell phone.
[09:47.720 --> 09:48.360]  It is a cell phone.
[09:48.420 --> 09:55.160]  You swipe your card through the cell phone and then it transmits to a little tiny printer, which you're supposed to wear on your belt, actually.
[09:55.360 --> 09:56.600]  And then it prints out the receipt there.
[09:56.980 --> 09:57.820]  It's pretty neat to have.
[09:57.820 --> 09:58.740]  How cool is that?
[09:58.880 --> 10:00.800]  So that's some of the new technology we were playing with.
[10:01.660 --> 10:03.960]  But yeah, all these people coming by the van saying hi.
[10:04.220 --> 10:05.640]  It's always fun to go out there.
[10:05.840 --> 10:17.540]  You know, it's sad, though, because I think less people are going to the hamventions because what I'm told is that the ham radio operators are getting older and older and either they don't travel as much or they don't travel at all anymore.
[10:17.540 --> 10:27.880]  And I guess if you combine the high gas prices, less people are taking road trips to go to places like Dayton, I think the key is to get a lot of young people involved in ham radio.
[10:28.400 --> 10:29.240]  Do you agree, Barney?
[10:29.840 --> 10:30.140]  Yes.
[10:30.140 --> 10:40.360]  In fact, one of our entourage, Savannah, who is probably, I'm guessing, 20, just a couple weeks ago...
[10:40.360 --> 10:41.360]  Oh, are you in trouble now?
[10:41.360 --> 10:47.220]  She passed her ham radio technician class exam just recently.
[10:47.420 --> 10:54.760]  And then when she got to the ham bench and she quickly studied and took and passed the general class and the extra class.
[10:54.880 --> 11:00.320]  So she assumed ahead of people who've been in ham radio for years and it was quite an impressive feat.
[11:00.740 --> 11:07.800]  So, yeah, to get a ham radio license, you have to take technical examinations to prove your competence in the radio art and technology.
[11:07.820 --> 11:14.980]  You no longer have to know Morse code, though, which has recently been removed as a requirement, unfortunately, but so it is.
[11:15.080 --> 11:17.260]  When's the last time you ever used Morse code for anything?
[11:17.700 --> 11:18.060]  Yesterday.
[11:18.440 --> 11:20.100]  Wait, Mitch, you used Morse code yesterday.
[11:20.420 --> 11:23.760]  Yeah, my ringtone for my text message says SMS.
[11:24.000 --> 11:29.760]  Yes, but you don't actually sit there and punch the little keys and transmit Morse code to somebody, ever.
[11:29.980 --> 11:34.280]  Well, I was actually with a friend of mine who can do 90 words a minute and we were...
[11:34.280 --> 11:36.920]  I was trying to see if I could remember it, so we were doing that.
[11:37.140 --> 11:39.240]  Can we talk 90 words a minute?
[11:39.240 --> 11:39.600]  No.
[11:40.340 --> 11:43.700]  So you're actually transmitting faster with Morse code than with human speech?
[11:44.640 --> 11:45.900]  He's quite the geek.
[11:47.380 --> 11:48.820]  Okay, well, that's interesting.
[11:49.340 --> 11:55.940]  So, yeah, you know, if more people get involved with ham radio, then events like this will continue and hopefully that will be the case, right?
[11:57.260 --> 12:00.740]  Yes, and you can talk 90 words a minute with a single finger.
[12:01.980 --> 12:02.600]  Try that.
[12:02.720 --> 12:03.160]  With a what?
[12:03.520 --> 12:04.420]  You can use...
[12:04.420 --> 12:10.680]  That communications rate, 90 words a minute, that Mitch was referring to, can be accomplished with a single finger on a...
[12:10.680 --> 12:11.960]  on a...
[12:11.960 --> 12:12.400]  on a...
[12:12.400 --> 12:14.120]  called Morse code key or CW key.
[12:14.240 --> 12:21.520]  So you're just tapping on this key at 90 words a minute and that's the only part of your body you're using to communicate is just a single finger, like your index finger.
[12:21.640 --> 12:26.560]  So can you, like, multiplex it to your whole hand or both hands and do 900 words a minute?
[12:26.860 --> 12:28.740]  You know, that's a really good question.
[12:30.300 --> 12:32.160]  The drummer of...
[12:32.160 --> 12:47.520]  the original drummer from The Who, I forget his name, he had some neurological gift where he could tap out 10 unique rhythm patterns separately on each of his 10 fingers simultaneously.
[12:47.940 --> 12:49.120]  You're talking about Keith Moon?
[12:49.240 --> 12:49.960]  Keith Moon could do that?
[12:50.340 --> 12:52.180]  So that's 100 total patterns.
[12:52.500 --> 12:54.100]  Somehow I didn't think he was capable of that.
[12:54.140 --> 12:55.560]  No, it's 10 independent patterns.
[12:55.740 --> 12:56.900]  He said 10 on each finger.
[12:57.340 --> 12:57.620]  Yeah.
[12:58.740 --> 12:59.780]  Well, he wasn't a spider.
[13:00.000 --> 13:03.080]  He was a good drummer but he didn't have that many tentacles.
[13:04.180 --> 13:04.580]  Wow.
[13:04.920 --> 13:05.740]  That's something.
[13:06.000 --> 13:09.340]  Bernie, quickly, you want to talk about the radio station that we discovered on the way out there?
[13:11.560 --> 13:12.680]  Oh, WKKX, is that?
[13:12.860 --> 13:13.560]  That's right.
[13:13.580 --> 13:13.960]  Very good.
[13:14.080 --> 13:16.320]  AM 1600 in Wheeling, West Virginia.
[13:16.860 --> 13:19.480]  It was the coolest little AM radio station.
[13:19.480 --> 13:24.100]  We were just walking along the river and we were walking through this beautiful old town that was built in the 1800s.
[13:24.220 --> 13:35.420]  It was a former coal mining town and it's pretty much dead from an economic standpoint but there's beautiful old buildings there and there's one beautiful building on the corner that used to be a bank because there's huge vaults inside.
[13:35.600 --> 13:41.900]  It had a radio station call sign in the window so I dragged you guys in there with much effort.
[13:42.140 --> 13:42.780]  Yeah, I'm sorry.
[13:42.840 --> 13:54.000]  I'm sorry I resisted so much and I didn't mean to kick you either but it's just we were in a hurry and I just figured that spending a lot of time talking to people might not work out that well but I was wrong.
[13:54.140 --> 13:56.100]  It was actually very enlightening and entertaining.
[13:56.640 --> 14:00.680]  And it was like a throwback just like this whole town of Wheeling is a throwback.
[14:00.960 --> 14:16.100]  This place was like this radio station WKKX was a throwback to better times decades ago where you had local radio stations owned by local people in this case one guy a local guy who broadcast all local content.
[14:16.340 --> 14:27.300]  It was an all-talk format but none of this Rush Limbaugh stuff this was no syndicated stuff all local programming.
[14:28.080 --> 14:50.360]  And all-talk and this you remember this last week was the West Virginia primary elections so all last week they were doing local coverage of the West Virginia primaries pretty much non-stop which is really amazing and all the advertisements are like local businesses with like the proprietor the owner reading something about their business it was just like stepping back in time it was really neat.
[14:50.660 --> 14:55.120]  It was cool and it was right in the an old converted bank building so they had a vault and everything.
[14:56.300 --> 15:03.940]  Yep and it was obviously a low-budget station and she said here's our here's our traffic studio it was just a PC in a closet it was great.
[15:04.420 --> 15:23.800]  Yeah it's nice to see a commercial station that doesn't have as nice equipment as we have here at WBAI which says something but it means that radio you know you have to just have you have to have a heart you have to have the spirit to want to do radio and these people had that that's what it was all about so that's why they exist so if you ever pass through Wheeling,
[15:23.900 --> 15:28.560]  West Virginia tune to 1600 on the AM dial you might hear something very interesting you'll certainly hear something very local.
[15:29.940 --> 15:50.180]  moving to local stuff for us we're again in the middle of our fundraiser here at WBAI we want to thank everybody who's supported us so far we've done great the last couple of weeks we need to keep that momentum up and very quickly let's run down the premiums somehow we've already brought in $200 that's really cool thank you whoever called in but we're offering the same premiums we offered last
[15:50.180 --> 16:02.260]  week and with the addition of an amazing one this week but let's quickly go down the list of what we have Already, for a pledge of $25 and above, you'll get an off-the-hook t-shirt, which I don't think anybody in the studio is wearing.
[16:02.560 --> 16:04.860]  But it's really... it's a pretty cool t-shirt.
[16:05.040 --> 16:05.680]  It's pretty cool.
[16:05.780 --> 16:08.300]  It says off-the-hook on it and gives the time and the station.
[16:08.300 --> 16:09.420]  You have a whole bag of them.
[16:09.500 --> 16:10.740]  We have a whole bag here, yeah.
[16:11.220 --> 16:16.000]  I mean, if you want one of us to be wearing one, it could be arranged pretty quickly.
[16:16.120 --> 16:18.640]  No point ruining them by having one of us put them on.
[16:19.140 --> 16:20.980]  But you'll get that for a pledge of $25.
[16:21.220 --> 16:23.100]  212-209-2950.
[16:23.680 --> 16:24.500]  But there's more.
[16:24.500 --> 16:25.780]  There's much more.
[16:26.420 --> 16:31.060]  If you want the $2600 hooded sweatshirt, which was very popular at Dayton.
[16:31.480 --> 16:32.080]  Very popular.
[16:32.220 --> 16:35.240]  People were wearing these things and being spotted.
[16:36.000 --> 16:36.980]  Were they fetching?
[16:37.100 --> 16:38.140]  They were pretty fetching.
[16:38.240 --> 16:39.000]  I think they were fetching.
[16:39.580 --> 16:41.040]  That's a pledge of... how much, Mike?
[16:41.220 --> 16:41.580]  $50.
[16:41.840 --> 16:42.020]  $50.
[16:42.600 --> 16:42.960]  Really?
[16:43.160 --> 16:43.820]  That's a good deal.
[16:44.000 --> 16:45.040]  And you get the shirt.
[16:45.200 --> 16:45.880]  You get the shirt as well.
[16:45.980 --> 16:48.140]  You know, if you bought these things, I think that's...
[16:48.140 --> 16:49.160]  Well, you can't buy the shirt.
[16:49.240 --> 16:50.300]  You can't buy the t-shirts.
[16:50.580 --> 16:51.420]  Yeah, the t-shirts we don't offer.
[16:51.580 --> 16:54.420]  It's like priceless plus whatever the sweatshirt costs.
[16:54.500 --> 16:55.000]  That's incredible.
[16:55.140 --> 16:56.540]  So 212-209-2950.
[16:56.640 --> 16:56.840]  $50.
[16:57.160 --> 16:59.420]  You'll get a hooded sweatshirt with $2600 on the front.
[16:59.560 --> 17:00.560]  The word hacker on the back.
[17:01.040 --> 17:02.960]  It's a zipper gray sweatshirt.
[17:03.300 --> 17:05.820]  And you'll also get the off-the-hook t-shirt.
[17:05.940 --> 17:06.160]  $50.
[17:06.380 --> 17:07.720]  212-209-2950.
[17:07.780 --> 17:08.420]  There's more, Mike?
[17:08.800 --> 17:09.660]  There's always more.
[17:09.720 --> 17:10.260]  What else?
[17:10.420 --> 17:15.020]  If you pledge $100, you'll get a ticket to this July's HOPE conference.
[17:15.020 --> 17:16.600]  That's the kind of ticket you want to get.
[17:16.960 --> 17:17.660]  It'll be...
[17:17.660 --> 17:22.000]  Yes, it'll be the good kind of ticket to a conference that is a good conference to go to.
[17:22.060 --> 17:23.520]  So you really can't lose there.
[17:23.740 --> 17:28.540]  Now, the HOPE conference, the last HOPE is taking place July 18, 19, and 20, right?
[17:28.740 --> 17:28.940]  Right.
[17:29.100 --> 17:29.220]  Yeah.
[17:29.400 --> 17:30.260]  The Hotel Pennsylvania.
[17:30.260 --> 17:31.240]  Consecutive days this year.
[17:31.480 --> 17:32.140]  Midtown Manhattan.
[17:32.400 --> 17:32.480]  Yeah.
[17:32.620 --> 17:37.080]  Hotel Pennsylvania, which I believe one of our guests is staying at.
[17:37.240 --> 17:37.380]  Yeah.
[17:38.480 --> 17:41.120]  I always stay there, and they're not closing.
[17:41.380 --> 17:41.960]  They're not closing.
[17:41.960 --> 17:46.680]  They're not closing, and that's really good news because it's one of the most convenient hotels, I think, in Manhattan.
[17:46.840 --> 17:49.360]  Well, they're certainly not going to close before our conference, and hopefully they won't close.
[17:49.360 --> 17:50.840]  No, they said they're not going to close.
[17:50.840 --> 17:56.220]  They lost their investors or funding, and so they're spending $40 million to remodel.
[17:56.620 --> 18:03.860]  Well, the whole deal was Merrill Lynch, down here on Wall Street, was supposed to move up there to that horrible building they wanted to tear the hotel down and replace it with.
[18:03.980 --> 18:06.480]  But then Merrill Lynch, what, they lost all this money or something?
[18:06.620 --> 18:07.440]  Yeah, like $12 billion.
[18:07.720 --> 18:08.140]  $12 billion.
[18:08.460 --> 18:10.020]  And I want to thank the listeners for helping with that.
[18:10.740 --> 18:13.280]  Well, I'm sure some of the listeners aren't very happy about it.
[18:13.540 --> 18:15.000]  But, you know, it's an investment.
[18:15.140 --> 18:17.920]  Think of it as an investment for the future in a different kind of a way.
[18:18.280 --> 18:27.120]  And so they're not moving uptown after all, and by not doing that, all of a sudden there's no reason to tear down a profitable hotel and replace it with an office building nobody wants.
[18:27.120 --> 18:29.380]  So that's good news.
[18:29.600 --> 18:30.400]  Yeah, it is good news.
[18:30.500 --> 18:32.580]  And it's good to hear things like that happen.
[18:32.700 --> 18:35.440]  So, okay, so the hotel will be standing for the conference at least.
[18:35.880 --> 18:38.820]  And for a pledge of $100, you'll get a ticket and...
[18:39.520 --> 18:39.920]  And...
[18:39.920 --> 18:40.340]  And what?
[18:40.500 --> 18:43.220]  And 80 DVDs or so, which is...
[18:43.220 --> 18:44.600]  I know you didn't just say 80.
[18:45.020 --> 18:46.360]  You meant 8 or 18.
[18:46.560 --> 18:52.080]  No, I meant 80 because I meant one for every talk at Hope No.
[18:52.180 --> 18:52.500]  6.
[18:52.720 --> 18:53.400]  Oh, my God.
[18:53.500 --> 18:56.600]  And some talks were really long, so there might be two DVDs.
[18:56.600 --> 18:57.780]  Well, it's entirely possible.
[18:57.940 --> 18:58.600]  80 DVDs.
[18:58.660 --> 19:01.740]  You'll get an 80 DVD set of Hope No.
[19:01.840 --> 19:03.300]  6, which took place in 2006.
[19:04.000 --> 19:05.760]  Which, believe me, it's sufficient to...
[19:05.760 --> 19:09.280]  You could just use it as a paperweight, even if you don't like the conference so much stuff.
[19:09.280 --> 19:11.800]  What are you saying about our talks that they are used as a paperweight?
[19:12.300 --> 19:12.780]  I'm just...
[19:12.780 --> 19:13.080]  All right.
[19:13.080 --> 19:13.940]  You could extract.
[19:13.940 --> 19:18.700]  You could extract, like, half the talks, 40 talks, which would be 40 hours of excellent material.
[19:19.720 --> 19:24.360]  And the ones that you don't have time to watch, even though they're also excellent, you could use those as a paperweight.
[19:24.420 --> 19:29.600]  Even if 90% of it sucks, that's still a lot of excellent material, considering what you're getting.
[19:29.740 --> 19:30.360]  It's eight, yeah.
[19:30.540 --> 19:30.720]  Yeah.
[19:30.900 --> 19:32.300]  How many hours of excellent material is that?
[19:32.340 --> 19:32.960]  But it doesn't.
[19:33.060 --> 19:33.600]  They don't suck.
[19:33.700 --> 19:34.260]  They really don't.
[19:34.340 --> 19:35.160]  I mean, I've seen them.
[19:35.800 --> 19:36.620]  Not all of them.
[19:36.800 --> 19:38.320]  Nobody has the time to see all that.
[19:38.680 --> 19:39.240]  But, wow.
[19:39.300 --> 19:40.480]  So you're saying you'll get the ticket.
[19:40.620 --> 19:41.940]  You'll get one ticket, which...
[19:41.940 --> 19:46.640]  You'll get the ticket with the blinky light and the RFID so you can be tracked all around the conference.
[19:46.660 --> 19:48.840]  Which we talked about last week, which is going to be amazing.
[19:48.940 --> 19:49.880]  Got a lot of press for that.
[19:49.880 --> 19:53.580]  A lot of people are really excited by the RFID experiment that we're going to be doing at the conference.
[19:53.760 --> 19:53.860]  So, yeah.
[19:53.920 --> 19:55.520]  By pre-registering, you'll be one of those people.
[19:55.940 --> 19:56.740]  Assuming you want to be.
[19:56.840 --> 19:58.880]  If you don't want to be, of course, we'll respect your wishes.
[19:59.020 --> 20:00.120]  But it'll be fun.
[20:00.200 --> 20:00.660]  It'll be cool.
[20:01.740 --> 20:04.940]  RFID with kind of a mischievous nature to it.
[20:05.180 --> 20:12.200]  But in addition to that, you'll get the DVDs and you'll get an off-the-hook t-shirt for a pledge of $100.
[20:12.580 --> 20:16.780]  And you can make this pledge, of course, by calling 212-209-2950.
[20:17.040 --> 20:18.560]  I'm not sure if we've said that enough times.
[20:18.560 --> 20:19.660]  Well, it can't hurt.
[20:19.660 --> 20:21.180]  There's only two calls on the line right now.
[20:21.240 --> 20:24.260]  And I know there's about 60 people down there waiting for phone calls.
[20:24.520 --> 20:25.140]  At least.
[20:25.280 --> 20:27.840]  Well, we did so well that they sort of overcompensated this week.
[20:28.000 --> 20:29.540]  We only have about 10 phone lines.
[20:29.620 --> 20:32.800]  But I guess there's people lined up in back of each other to take the next call.
[20:33.580 --> 20:35.720]  And also, one more pledge item.
[20:36.840 --> 20:42.980]  If you're lucky enough to have a friend who wants to go to the Hope Conference as well, we have a special deal for two tickets.
[20:43.220 --> 20:43.760]  That's right.
[20:43.760 --> 20:50.440]  If you pledge $150, you'll get two tickets to the Hope Conference plus the archive DVD set.
[20:50.500 --> 20:52.500]  I guess you'll have to share that with your friend.
[20:52.680 --> 20:56.100]  But there's 80 DVDs, so you could easily share.
[20:56.220 --> 20:59.300]  And you also have to fight over the off-the-hook t-shirt because you just get one.
[20:59.440 --> 20:59.880]  That's true.
[20:59.880 --> 21:04.340]  But, you know, what you could do is one person can have the t-shirt, one person can have the DVDs.
[21:04.420 --> 21:06.800]  And then you could sort of switch on and off as needed.
[21:07.340 --> 21:11.540]  So, you know, one day you can have the shirt and the other person can have the DVDs or whatever.
[21:11.580 --> 21:13.900]  The thing is, you get two tickets to the Hope Conference.
[21:14.100 --> 21:15.120]  You know what the thing really is?
[21:15.180 --> 21:16.920]  The thing really is that you're helping the radio station.
[21:17.000 --> 21:17.940]  That's why you should be calling.
[21:18.300 --> 21:20.060]  Never mind all this nonsense, what we're giving you.
[21:20.140 --> 21:20.860]  It's good stuff.
[21:20.960 --> 21:21.680]  No question about it.
[21:30.500 --> 21:32.140]  That doesn't include that.
[21:32.240 --> 21:33.360]  That's the most important thing.
[21:33.540 --> 21:35.460]  This radio station has existed since 1960.
[21:35.980 --> 21:39.280]  And hopefully it will exist for another 48 years.
[21:39.700 --> 21:43.840]  If you call up, 212-209-2950.
[21:44.440 --> 21:46.400]  Listeners like you are what made this possible.
[21:46.640 --> 21:49.260]  Listeners like you are what make magical radio possible.
[21:49.460 --> 21:53.460]  It's always been a magical place here and will continue to be.
[21:53.760 --> 21:55.640]  212-209-2950.
[21:55.860 --> 22:10.600]  Let's get a couple more calls and we're going to move into our special feature for today special guests who have come from so far away or actually some of them are so far away and talk about some of the other things that are going to be happening at the Hope Conference which will make history.
[22:11.300 --> 22:14.400]  But again, our lines are empty now.
[22:14.560 --> 22:15.060]  There's no opening on.
[22:15.140 --> 22:15.820]  I haven't seen this in a while.
[22:16.400 --> 22:19.880]  I mean there's two blinking lights over there but that's not nearly enough.
[22:20.060 --> 22:20.260]  No.
[22:20.400 --> 22:21.260]  We should have four.
[22:21.440 --> 22:22.100]  We have four.
[22:22.660 --> 22:23.060]  All right.
[22:23.100 --> 22:23.440]  That's three.
[22:23.620 --> 22:24.180]  We have four.
[22:25.000 --> 22:26.220]  Then I think we can move on.
[22:26.360 --> 22:28.280]  212-209-2950.
[22:28.280 --> 22:40.340]  Maybe people don't know that they should be calling country code 1 before the 212-209-2950 if they're out of the country or if they just have a GSM phone and like dialing all calls with the plus.
[22:40.540 --> 22:41.180]  You can do that.
[22:41.300 --> 22:41.380]  Yeah.
[22:41.500 --> 22:42.480]  Plus one.
[22:43.180 --> 22:44.360]  Bernie, can you...
[22:44.360 --> 22:48.740]  I think you gave the phone number out and people called in one week.
[22:49.080 --> 22:49.800]  Well, that's right.
[22:49.940 --> 22:50.540]  It was just...
[22:50.540 --> 22:51.080]  It was odd.
[22:51.220 --> 22:55.960]  But I just want to tell listeners, obviously you like the show if you're listening to it now.
[22:56.480 --> 23:04.160]  So if you want the show to stay on the air, which is not a for sure certain thing, the shows stay on based on how much support they get.
[23:04.620 --> 23:06.520]  And WBAI makes those decisions.
[23:06.820 --> 23:17.040]  So I really encourage everybody who's listening to the show, who obviously enjoys it or they wouldn't be listening now, to call 212-209-2950.
[23:17.040 --> 23:24.000]  And in addition to getting the satisfaction you're supporting WBAI in the show, you're going to get a tremendous premium.
[23:24.160 --> 23:28.660]  Like Emmanuel just mentioned, the package including the 80 DVD set from HOPE No.
[23:28.780 --> 23:35.640]  6 and a ticket to the last HOPE conference coming up this July, 18th, 19th, and 20th.
[23:35.740 --> 23:43.320]  That's 80 hours of stimulating multimedia entertainment and just intellectual property.
[23:43.320 --> 23:49.120]  Really interesting talks about subjects you would never hear at any other conference in the world.
[23:49.440 --> 23:50.960]  This is really interesting stuff.
[23:50.980 --> 23:53.580]  So please call 212-209-2950.
[23:53.800 --> 23:56.980]  It's well worth your money to support the station and get these premiums.
[23:57.120 --> 23:59.020]  212-209-2950.
[23:59.220 --> 23:59.440]  Okay.
[23:59.520 --> 24:00.340]  You had five calls there.
[24:00.400 --> 24:01.080]  Now it's down to four.
[24:01.220 --> 24:02.600]  But you did the job.
[24:02.640 --> 24:03.400]  And that's the important thing.
[24:03.740 --> 24:09.460]  Listeners, please continue to call 212-209-2950 because we have all sorts of special deals as we've mentioned.
[24:09.460 --> 24:17.560]  But now we want to move on to talk about the actual subject matter that we're going to be discussing for the remainder of this hour.
[24:18.240 --> 24:20.160]  Now, Mark Tobias is here.
[24:20.620 --> 24:21.460]  He has recently...
[24:22.240 --> 24:24.060]  Where have you recently flown in from?
[24:24.520 --> 24:29.660]  Dubai and Europe and Spain and all parts East.
[24:29.860 --> 24:31.120]  Now, you've...
[24:31.800 --> 24:34.640]  I think Barry from the Netherlands can attest to this.
[24:34.780 --> 24:38.260]  You have caused a particular lock company a bit of greed.
[24:38.260 --> 24:40.580]  Well, you've probably caused all the lock companies a bit of grief.
[24:40.720 --> 24:41.980]  But one in particular...
[24:41.980 --> 24:43.780]  That would be correct.
[24:44.800 --> 24:48.400]  Medeco is the high security lock manufacturer in the United States.
[24:48.440 --> 24:49.320]  I've heard of Medeco.
[24:49.440 --> 24:50.360]  I think we've all heard of Medeco.
[24:50.560 --> 24:51.140]  That's the one.
[24:51.220 --> 24:54.080]  That's the lock that supposedly it's the top of the line.
[24:54.200 --> 24:56.820]  You can't break this kind of a lock, can you?
[24:57.640 --> 24:58.040]  Yes.
[24:58.220 --> 24:58.720]  You can?
[24:59.040 --> 24:59.440]  Yes.
[25:00.140 --> 25:00.540]  Wow.
[25:01.180 --> 25:01.740]  All right.
[25:01.940 --> 25:06.360]  You have to understand these folks own 70% at least of the high security market in America.
[25:06.600 --> 25:07.640]  They're very good lock.
[25:07.640 --> 25:16.600]  If you walk down the streets in New York, you'll find them on lots and lots of commercial establishments, banks, insurance companies, federal facilities.
[25:16.600 --> 25:17.580]  They're very good locks.
[25:17.780 --> 25:19.800]  The problem is that they have some vulnerabilities.
[25:20.260 --> 25:24.980]  And we embarked on an 18-month research project and we essentially broke the locks.
[25:25.500 --> 25:26.580]  And so they're...
[25:26.580 --> 25:30.260]  I would say it would be an understatement to say they're not happy with us.
[25:30.420 --> 25:30.800]  No.
[25:30.960 --> 25:33.860]  Now, when you say you broke the locks, what does that mean for the listeners?
[25:33.860 --> 25:37.700]  That means that we can open these locks.
[25:37.920 --> 25:44.380]  First of all, these locks are rated to be impervious to covert entry attacks for at least 10 minutes.
[25:45.260 --> 25:45.940]  Hang on.
[25:46.060 --> 25:46.360]  Hang on.
[25:46.440 --> 25:46.720]  One second.
[25:47.020 --> 25:50.200]  You say they're rated to be impervious for 10 minutes.
[25:50.320 --> 25:53.500]  That's considered a good rating to just have 10 minutes of a lock?
[25:53.500 --> 25:56.900]  10 or 15 minutes in America is the highest rating you can get.
[25:57.100 --> 25:57.480]  You're kidding.
[25:57.500 --> 25:57.900]  No.
[25:58.080 --> 26:02.960]  For a pin tumbler lock, either Underwriters Laboratory or the Builders Hardware Manufacturers Association.
[26:02.960 --> 26:06.660]  I would think a lock would be rated to, like, not allow anybody to get past the lock.
[26:06.760 --> 26:11.800]  Well, unfortunately, there are very, very, very few locks, if any, that you can make that statement.
[26:12.620 --> 26:14.240]  Security is all about time.
[26:14.940 --> 26:17.700]  When we teach, it's time, tools, and it's training.
[26:17.980 --> 26:19.280]  How much time does it take?
[26:19.340 --> 26:20.140]  What kind of tools?
[26:20.560 --> 26:22.700]  What kind of training to learn how to open the locks?
[26:22.700 --> 26:26.000]  That's, in essence, what the standards are about.
[26:26.240 --> 26:34.420]  And so everybody relies on these standards in order to know what to buy for high-security or high-value target applications.
[26:34.500 --> 26:38.440]  And therein lies the problem, because the standards are like Catch-22.
[26:38.600 --> 26:40.380]  They don't cover everything.
[26:40.640 --> 26:47.800]  And so Medeco has been the most respected lock in America, I would say, for the last 40 years since they were invented.
[26:48.060 --> 26:48.420]  Yeah.
[26:48.560 --> 27:03.240]  And they boldly announced that they were bump-proof, which, in 2006 at the HOPE conference, Barry Wells and I lectured on that and created somewhat of a revolution in America in pin-tumbler locks.
[27:04.360 --> 27:08.500]  And everybody started paying attention to the normal locks in their doors.
[27:08.500 --> 27:10.960]  And then, of course, they started looking at high-security locks.
[27:10.960 --> 27:17.580]  And so Medeco and some other companies announced that their locks were bump-proof.
[27:18.120 --> 27:19.480]  And they weren't.
[27:19.700 --> 27:20.860]  What is bump-proof?
[27:21.080 --> 27:33.600]  Well, bumping is a technique where you can take a specially-made key, and you can stick it in the lock and whack it a couple times with a special little plastic mallet or a screwdriver and open the lock.
[27:34.180 --> 27:35.540]  Now, who discovered that?
[27:36.160 --> 27:41.140]  Actually, that was discovered by a fellow named George Barron in 1925 in England.
[27:41.180 --> 27:45.600]  But it was rediscovered in Denmark in the 70s and 80s.
[27:45.700 --> 28:07.420]  And then Barry Wells and his associates in the Netherlands and in Germany actually figured out how to make this a valid covert entry technique in about 2003-2004 tool, which is Barry's organization, did a lot of work on this in Europe and brought it to the forefront in Europe,
[28:07.440 --> 28:09.800]  and then we brought it to America in 2006.
[28:10.140 --> 28:13.480]  Barry, you want to give any additional details on this whole development?
[28:14.800 --> 28:17.720]  Well, I think Mark is so far pretty accurate.
[28:18.380 --> 28:25.160]  And, yeah, when it comes to bumping, the lock industry claimed two things.
[28:25.160 --> 28:30.040]  First of all, they claimed they've known it for a long time, but they never cared to fix it.
[28:31.100 --> 28:35.820]  And secondly, they claimed that, you know, it should never be released because it's very dangerous.
[28:35.820 --> 28:39.620]  And on the other hand, it's not dangerous at all because nobody's doing it.
[28:39.820 --> 28:42.520]  You know, they make all these conflicting statements.
[28:43.860 --> 28:46.320]  Yeah, that's really funny to see them struggle.
[28:46.600 --> 29:01.460]  Well, and Emmanuel, the interesting thing is all of the locksmiths, and I have tremendous respect for the locksmith community, work with a lot of them, but they all claim this was known for 75 years, which begs the question, why didn't the public know about it?
[29:01.520 --> 29:03.300]  Why weren't they warned about it?
[29:03.520 --> 29:13.480]  Because 95% of the locks in America are vulnerable to a technique that literally a 12-year-old kid, as we showed at Hope, can accomplish.
[29:13.480 --> 29:26.980]  And so, it's a real problem, and we've really, frankly, caused an upheaval in the industry for the better because the locks are getting better, but the consumers need to be aware of the problem.
[29:27.180 --> 29:36.860]  And so, one of the marketing ploys was the high-security lock manufacturers came out in various ways and said, well, our locks are bump-proof.
[29:37.240 --> 29:41.200]  And most of them, or a good percentage of them, they're not.
[29:41.200 --> 29:45.520]  And the problem is, the manufacturers, a lot of them, they didn't know that.
[29:45.680 --> 29:53.400]  And when we demonstrated for the manufacturers, both in the United States and in Europe, they wouldn't believe it.
[29:53.580 --> 29:59.860]  And as Barry can well attest, they all came out with their press releases that said, this is all smoke and mirrors.
[30:00.120 --> 30:01.840]  Well, it's not smoke and mirrors.
[30:02.100 --> 30:09.500]  And so, for two years now, we've had this little war going on, and I've been pretty out front in the media.
[30:09.700 --> 30:12.960]  So has Barry, a number of other folks.
[30:13.340 --> 30:17.220]  And I think we're making the locks better.
[30:17.380 --> 30:19.580]  We're ultimately making everybody more secure.
[30:19.860 --> 30:22.920]  But a lot of folks aren't happy about it.
[30:22.980 --> 30:27.120]  And so, that's what actually started our research program with regard to Medico.
[30:27.460 --> 30:29.860]  Medico said, our locks are bump-proof.
[30:29.860 --> 30:36.060]  And then they changed their language about six months later after we showed them they weren't bump-proof.
[30:36.220 --> 30:37.400]  And they wouldn't believe it.
[30:37.500 --> 30:39.720]  They changed it to virtually bump-proof.
[30:39.800 --> 30:40.560]  What does that mean?
[30:40.580 --> 30:41.460]  No, no, it gets better.
[30:42.140 --> 30:44.040]  Oh, that's a good question.
[30:44.440 --> 30:47.840]  As a lawyer, I would really ask that question.
[30:47.840 --> 30:50.360]  But then they really got concerned.
[30:50.360 --> 30:53.880]  So they changed their language again to virtually resistant.
[30:54.640 --> 30:58.300]  If you'll tell me what that means, I'd be very happy.
[30:58.300 --> 31:00.960]  Apparently, it means it's resistant to virtual attacks.
[31:00.960 --> 31:04.080]  So if you're in, like, second life or something, you can't open the lock.
[31:04.300 --> 31:05.740]  It's legal gobbledygook.
[31:06.080 --> 31:11.380]  And what it really is, it's like virtual reality, which absolutely means nothing.
[31:11.680 --> 31:15.340]  And so, my view is the public's being misled.
[31:15.580 --> 31:18.100]  And so, we embarked on a research project.
[31:18.100 --> 31:25.140]  And 18 months later, we not only are able to bump their locks, we're able to pick their locks and we're able to destroy their key control.
[31:25.140 --> 31:34.960]  And key control means that you can literally control the availability of blanks and how they're duplicated and how they're copied because they're patent protected.
[31:35.300 --> 31:40.940]  Well, we figured out how to get around that with no legal implications.
[31:41.360 --> 31:45.700]  And so, for the high-security lock market, this is a real problem.
[31:46.200 --> 31:49.460]  And I guess I kind of laugh about it.
[31:50.700 --> 31:54.600]  Medeco now, I would say, is suffering an insecurity complex.
[31:57.720 --> 31:59.380]  Because this is a real problem.
[31:59.540 --> 32:01.860]  The company, in a year, has made no public statements.
[32:02.580 --> 32:09.060]  They've made a lot of private statements that this is not true, this can't be happening, these are all phony demonstrations.
[32:09.640 --> 32:12.380]  Unfortunately, a number of experts have now replicated this.
[32:12.380 --> 32:23.680]  So, my partner, Tobias Bluzmanis, who's a Venezuelan locksmith in Miami and very, very competent, 20-year technician, we embarked on this project.
[32:23.980 --> 32:33.540]  18 months later, we've come out, or just about to come out, with a 350-page book detailing how we broke this lock.
[32:33.540 --> 32:36.320]  And it wasn't a trivial matter.
[32:36.320 --> 32:38.940]  It was a very complicated trail.
[32:39.360 --> 32:41.940]  But at the end of the day, the locks are vulnerable.
[32:42.260 --> 32:48.720]  And, you know, everybody asks me, well, should I not be using Medeco locks and other high-security locks?
[32:48.720 --> 32:53.960]  And my answer is, no, they're very, very good locks, but not for everybody.
[32:54.260 --> 32:56.920]  Not for high-value or critical targets.
[32:56.920 --> 33:00.420]  And when everybody asks, well, are they secure?
[33:00.420 --> 33:05.260]  My answer is, well, that's a difficult and complicated question.
[33:05.780 --> 33:21.480]  Security, in terms of locks, means who's going to be attacking you, what's their competence level, how much, what kind of value are you protecting, and how much time do you anticipate will they have to break the lock, and what kind of expertise?
[33:21.740 --> 33:34.680]  If there's a million dollars in jewels or a hundred million dollars, a case I looked at in Antwerp a few years ago and was privileged to go review, they worked two years to steal a hundred million dollars, and they got away with it.
[33:34.760 --> 33:37.640]  Now, they ultimately got caught, but they haven't got the diamonds back.
[33:37.980 --> 33:43.460]  They broke the locks, and they broke the alarm systems, and they broke the video surveillance, and they got into the safe.
[33:43.820 --> 33:47.220]  Well, it depends on the value of the target.
[33:47.480 --> 33:50.920]  Medico locks are used at the White House, at the Pentagon.
[33:50.920 --> 33:53.020]  They protect the royal family in London.
[33:53.780 --> 33:57.380]  You know, they're used all over the world to protect high-value targets.
[33:57.660 --> 34:04.760]  So it's not insubstantial, the problem that we've created, and we think everybody ought to know about it.
[34:04.780 --> 34:05.860]  Well, you didn't create the problem.
[34:05.940 --> 34:06.480]  The problem was there.
[34:06.520 --> 34:07.480]  You just brought attention to it.
[34:07.500 --> 34:13.020]  Well, yes, but as Shakespeare said, it's a lot easier to kill the messenger than make the message go away.
[34:13.680 --> 34:17.220]  Well, on that subject, have they attempted to threaten you in any way?
[34:17.360 --> 34:21.000]  No, they haven't said a word, which is frankly uncharacteristic.
[34:21.220 --> 34:24.980]  This has been a very litigious company over the years, and rightfully so.
[34:25.260 --> 34:29.240]  They've protected their intellectual property for their customers.
[34:30.240 --> 34:36.260]  They haven't said one word other than to tell people very quietly, this is all a lie, it's not true.
[34:36.440 --> 34:38.200]  But they've made no public statements.
[34:38.200 --> 34:40.240]  We wish they would at some time.
[34:40.380 --> 34:42.120]  I would imagine they would.
[34:42.300 --> 34:43.660]  But they've said nothing.
[34:44.500 --> 34:46.980]  Now that you've broken the lock, how fast can you break it?
[34:46.980 --> 34:56.840]  Well, we just shot a video in Miami, the final videos for the multimedia edition of the book, and we timed it at 27 seconds.
[34:57.540 --> 34:58.080]  Oh, my God.
[34:59.800 --> 35:18.960]  Now, I would not represent that we could do that with every lock by any means, but we've developed and filed three patents, very detailed patents, the methods that we broke these locks and how we proposed to fix it to stop us from doing this, which we feel is equally important.
[35:19.200 --> 35:23.220]  And so, but 27 seconds, I think, is our record.
[35:24.100 --> 35:33.080]  Barry was present with my partner in Miami, and I think he documented about 30 seconds on a padlock that was locked.
[35:33.900 --> 35:36.200]  These are high-security locks.
[35:36.540 --> 35:41.500]  These are not supposed to be open in these times, but yet we're doing it.
[35:41.660 --> 35:47.660]  And, you know, we think the problem really is the company doesn't know how to open their own locks.
[35:47.900 --> 35:59.060]  And so the only thing they can say is this is smoke and mirrors and it can't be done, but as we document in the book, it can be done and it has been done and it is being done.
[35:59.060 --> 36:03.500]  And I assume at the Hope Conference, you're going to show us live it being done, correct?
[36:03.500 --> 36:04.440]  I would imagine.
[36:04.500 --> 36:06.020]  I know Barry's speaking there.
[36:06.060 --> 36:11.900]  I'm looking at my speaking schedule right now because of my overseas travel, but we're working on it.
[36:11.980 --> 36:12.500]  All right, good.
[36:12.780 --> 36:16.860]  Now, when you say 27 seconds, do you mean 27 seconds bumping it or picking it?
[36:16.900 --> 36:17.940]  No, no, this is picking it.
[36:18.900 --> 36:21.720]  Sometimes I can bump open these locks in 15 seconds.
[36:21.880 --> 36:22.980]  Sometimes it takes a minute.
[36:23.400 --> 36:28.240]  Sometimes you can't bump them open, but bumping isn't the desired method of entry.
[36:28.240 --> 36:30.540]  We consider it a boutique method of entry.
[36:30.700 --> 36:35.320]  Picking is really the reliable method of entry.
[36:35.400 --> 36:37.860]  We figured out... we broke their codes.
[36:38.100 --> 36:43.420]  We analyzed Medico's codes over the last 25 years that they put out in their book for everybody.
[36:43.520 --> 36:45.160]  We reverse engineered them.
[36:45.260 --> 36:46.920]  We figured out where the glitches were.
[36:47.060 --> 36:59.260]  And if you can believe this, we figured out four keys that would open their universe of locks by picking and bumping up until December of 2007 when they changed some of their codes.
[36:59.880 --> 37:02.480]  Well, I'm not really up on all this.
[37:02.560 --> 37:04.000]  This is new information for me.
[37:04.120 --> 37:05.920]  No, you just turn off television sets.
[37:06.540 --> 37:08.180]  Yeah, and...
[37:08.180 --> 37:09.500]  Two of you could really...
[37:09.500 --> 37:10.600]  You won't even get close.
[37:10.900 --> 37:12.720]  ...cause mayhem all over our Western civilization.
[37:12.720 --> 37:16.460]  Yeah, I can do it from as far as 100 meters away, or I can be up close.
[37:16.640 --> 37:20.100]  But, you know, we all play our part in making the world a better place in our own ways.
[37:20.320 --> 37:21.500]  It depends who you're turning off.
[37:22.340 --> 37:25.260]  Or, yeah, well, when I turn TVs off, I turn people on.
[37:25.760 --> 37:25.860]  Right, right.
[37:27.600 --> 37:34.260]  But if Medico is so easy, it sounds like anyone can be trained to do this, and all these other locks must be even easier.
[37:34.440 --> 37:35.300]  Why aren't...
[37:35.300 --> 37:36.780]  Why isn't it happening all the time?
[37:36.940 --> 37:39.860]  First of all, to be very fair, I wouldn't say everybody can do it.
[37:39.940 --> 37:41.320]  I mean, this does take some skill.
[37:41.320 --> 37:45.480]  But, again, Medico are high-security locks for a lot of high-value targets.
[37:45.740 --> 37:48.940]  So the skill level is expected to be higher.
[37:49.300 --> 37:51.080]  A lot of locks can be broken.
[37:51.300 --> 37:53.920]  A lot of the high-security locks, it's more difficult.
[37:54.100 --> 37:54.940]  Yeah, so...
[37:54.940 --> 37:58.340]  To be fair, I mean, Medico makes good locks.
[37:58.580 --> 38:00.880]  It's just that they're not good for every application.
[38:01.440 --> 38:02.040]  Right, yeah.
[38:02.160 --> 38:07.660]  So, well, if Medico can be done by a good number of people, but these other ones can...
[38:07.660 --> 38:09.200]  You said a 12-year-old can learn to...
[38:09.200 --> 38:17.760]  Like the quick sets of this world, the conventional pen-tumbler locks, we showed a 12-year-old girl opening quick set in about five seconds.
[38:17.760 --> 38:22.500]  But that same 12-year-old girl, when she was 13 last year, opened up the Medico.
[38:22.740 --> 38:24.480]  And where is she currently serving time?
[38:25.620 --> 38:29.080]  She's currently in about sixth or seventh grade.
[38:29.140 --> 38:30.780]  Okay, well, that's bad enough.
[38:31.460 --> 38:32.680]  Barry, I think you had something?
[38:33.300 --> 38:42.220]  Yes, well, Mark made a comment that I noticed somebody or his colleague picking a lock in 30 seconds, which is true.
[38:42.960 --> 38:47.140]  However, some time has to be added to that, in all fairness.
[38:47.960 --> 38:51.060]  It took him some time to select one out of four keys.
[38:52.020 --> 39:00.440]  The attack works more or less by looking at the lock and determining what number of key you have to use, one, two, three, or four.
[39:00.780 --> 39:03.960]  And then you do some magic, and then you can start picking the lock.
[39:04.440 --> 39:15.100]  So I think, in all fairness, it took him some minutes to do it, if you include examining the lock, if you need a key code one, two, or three, or four.
[39:15.720 --> 39:19.360]  Having said that, you know, that can be two individual events.
[39:19.960 --> 39:26.920]  So, I mean, he did pick the lock in 30 seconds after he determined which number of key to use.
[39:28.180 --> 39:28.620]  Incredible.
[39:29.700 --> 39:35.040]  Well, okay, let me just bring people in on this, as far as how they can become...
[39:35.040 --> 39:41.640]  Well, I don't think they ever become as educated as the two of you, but still, there's a lot of knowledge that can be picked up by...
[39:41.640 --> 39:43.000]  Picked up being the operative word.
[39:43.180 --> 39:43.380]  Yeah.
[39:44.800 --> 39:53.320]  I mean, you've just done so much work on this, and it's so thorough, and that's why the lock-picking seminars that we have at the conferences have become so popular.
[39:53.480 --> 39:56.380]  And this year in particular, I think it's getting bigger than ever.
[39:56.520 --> 39:59.960]  We have a lock-picking village where basically people learn these things hands-on.
[40:00.360 --> 40:08.620]  We have at least one two-hour talk, and I think we're going to have several this year, where people just learn all there is to know about...
[40:08.620 --> 40:12.360]  Well, some of what there is to know about locks and lock-picking and security.
[40:12.900 --> 40:19.200]  But, Mark, what you have is an absolutely incredible book that we're offering here tonight for the first and only time.
[40:20.220 --> 40:22.100]  It's called LSS Plus.
[40:22.200 --> 40:23.200]  You want to tell us something about this?
[40:23.200 --> 40:23.200]  Yes.
[40:23.980 --> 40:36.200]  Originally, I wrote the hardbound edition of this book when I was a senior in college back in 1969-70, published by Charles Thomas Publishers, the largest law enforcement textbook publisher in the world.
[40:36.640 --> 40:43.960]  The second edition of that was released in 2001, and then I began work on the multimedia edition, which is LSS Plus.
[40:44.480 --> 40:58.080]  And LSS Plus, the locksmith version, is up to six volumes, and it actually contains four books that I've written or rewritten, together with about 30 hours of embedded video, audio, graphics.
[40:59.560 --> 41:06.540]  It's a very comprehensive reference, if you're interested in locks, safes, and security, which, of course, is the title.
[41:06.860 --> 41:08.520]  And this is like a box set here.
[41:08.560 --> 41:11.440]  You have books, you've got CDs, you've got all kinds of documentation.
[41:11.740 --> 41:12.440]  Yeah, no, it's all on CD.
[41:12.680 --> 41:14.280]  This is just the CD version.
[41:14.340 --> 41:14.560]  Okay.
[41:15.260 --> 41:21.920]  And it's search engine-based, same software as Lexus or Nexus uses, so you can instantly find whatever you're looking for.
[41:22.240 --> 41:24.440]  But very good graphics, lots of video.
[41:24.680 --> 41:26.140]  Okay, and this normally goes for how much?
[41:26.360 --> 41:26.760]  $350.
[41:27.240 --> 41:35.420]  Now, we're offering it today, we only have five of these, so we're offering it today to our listeners who are interested in learning about lockpicking and locks and all that kind of a thing.
[41:35.520 --> 41:39.300]  It's for people that really are serious about this, that have a very keen interest.
[41:39.480 --> 41:43.480]  We're offering that for $200 for a pledge at 212-209-2950.
[41:43.480 --> 41:48.040]  Again, we only have five of these, locks, safes, and security.
[41:48.340 --> 41:49.780]  The second edition?
[41:50.300 --> 41:54.400]  Yeah, it's actually about the fourth edition of the multimedia edition.
[41:54.540 --> 41:57.060]  It's because it's not printed, it's strictly multimedia.
[41:57.420 --> 42:08.420]  And I might say, following up with that, next month, I'm releasing the multimedia edition of the book on Medico, and then the softbound edition will be released in late July.
[42:08.420 --> 42:18.480]  So there's all kinds of material being released here, but this is like a Bible for people, I would imagine, that are interested in this kind of a thing, that want to learn about locks.
[42:18.720 --> 42:21.080]  Yeah, it's very detailed, but it's also very interesting.
[42:21.080 --> 42:22.480]  It's a historical perspective.
[42:22.640 --> 42:23.380]  It's 40 chapters.
[42:23.940 --> 42:32.720]  And it's everything really technical and theory about locks, how to open them, what they are, how they're made, everything.
[42:33.420 --> 42:41.640]  What's cool about this is that what we're offering today, it's actually less than what it normally costs, and that's why we're only offering it for this hour, and that's why we only have five of them.
[42:42.660 --> 42:44.560]  212-209-2950.
[42:44.800 --> 42:45.980]  Did we say how much?
[42:46.420 --> 42:46.780]  $200.
[42:47.060 --> 42:47.420]  $200?
[42:47.520 --> 42:47.720]  $200.
[42:47.980 --> 42:48.140]  Wow.
[42:48.300 --> 42:49.180]  And it's normally $350.
[42:49.200 --> 42:52.420]  And you get the off-the-hook t-shirt, if that sweetens the deal in any way.
[42:52.960 --> 43:01.540]  But if you've heard the kinds of things that Mark and Barry have been saying in the last few minutes, it really, you know, it makes you stand up and take notice.
[43:01.540 --> 43:03.840]  This is serious business here.
[43:04.840 --> 43:07.500]  Locks that people think are secure are not secure.
[43:07.780 --> 43:11.560]  And we're talking about getting into these things in less than 30 seconds.
[43:11.920 --> 43:15.260]  As a rule, people don't know this.
[43:15.400 --> 43:20.840]  And it's very similar to all the other things we talk about as far as security and privacy.
[43:20.860 --> 43:23.580]  People don't realize how fragile these things are.
[43:23.660 --> 43:26.040]  And what you guys are doing, I think, is a tremendous public service.
[43:26.320 --> 43:30.660]  Yeah, the consumer really ought to be paying attention if they've got valuables to protect.
[43:30.660 --> 43:37.720]  The residential issue, basically, they don't need high-security locks because there's so much glass in most residences.
[43:37.860 --> 43:43.400]  But if you're talking about a business environment where you've got assets that you want to protect, I'd be paying attention.
[43:43.520 --> 43:49.860]  I was interviewed a couple years ago on one of your television stations, Channel 11, in a feature story.
[43:49.860 --> 43:56.240]  And I had the cameraman opening locks, these big, huge padlocks, for example, that you see on all the gates in New York.
[43:56.240 --> 43:56.680]  Yeah.
[43:56.680 --> 44:01.200]  Because you folks live in such a safe city that you have to have gates protecting everything.
[44:01.840 --> 44:03.800]  Ten seconds, and these locks are open.
[44:03.980 --> 44:05.920]  They look secure, but they're not.
[44:06.220 --> 44:06.340]  Yeah.
[44:06.360 --> 44:13.780]  And everybody does need to understand what the risks are so they can assess them and make a decision if it's enough or if they need something better.
[44:13.940 --> 44:17.260]  Well, many years ago, we did a little expose on those simplex locks.
[44:17.400 --> 44:18.660]  You know, it's one of the five buttons.
[44:18.660 --> 44:23.340]  And it was a big deal because we were able to reveal that you can get through these pretty quickly.
[44:23.440 --> 44:24.780]  There's only a limited number.
[44:24.900 --> 44:26.920]  There's a thousand combinations, and you can get through them rather fast.
[44:27.340 --> 44:33.560]  At the time, we had no idea that it could be even easier to get through what we called a real lock.
[44:33.900 --> 44:38.620]  But you guys have demonstrated how that's possible, how it's easy, in fact.
[44:39.060 --> 44:41.180]  And yes, people deserve to know this.
[44:41.760 --> 44:44.340]  202-209-2950, we have three calls on the line.
[44:44.460 --> 44:45.860]  Again, we only have five of these packages.
[44:46.040 --> 44:49.560]  We should point out that at least one has already been spoken for.
[44:49.720 --> 44:50.060]  How did that happen?
[44:50.060 --> 44:56.600]  I don't know how that happened before, but even before we announced it, David from Crystal Bay, Minnesota, pledged for one.
[44:56.700 --> 44:56.940]  Okay.
[44:57.160 --> 44:57.840]  So he'll get one.
[44:58.080 --> 44:59.180]  Somebody leaked information.
[44:59.320 --> 45:01.840]  So we want to thank him for that.
[45:01.900 --> 45:03.120]  We have four left.
[45:03.220 --> 45:04.400]  212-209-2950.
[45:04.560 --> 45:05.760]  We want to thank the people who have called in.
[45:05.840 --> 45:08.660]  Remember, we can only read the first names and the town they're from.
[45:09.200 --> 45:12.360]  And I promise not to say anything smart-alecky about their towns this time.
[45:12.500 --> 45:16.540]  And yes, I know the Edmonton Oilers and the Calgary Flames are still in Canada.
[45:17.080 --> 45:19.480]  I was making that misstatement last week when I was talking about Alberta.
[45:19.620 --> 45:23.240]  I know some hockey team from Canada moved down south to Atlanta or Texas or something.
[45:23.240 --> 45:26.540]  Probably because you can't think of a single thing to say about Crystal Bay, Minnesota.
[45:26.860 --> 45:27.480]  I don't know where...
[45:27.480 --> 45:29.300]  Listen, don't challenge me because I'll think of something.
[45:29.420 --> 45:31.900]  I live next to Minnesota, but I don't know where Crystal Bay is.
[45:32.080 --> 45:33.220]  There, so we said something about it.
[45:34.300 --> 45:35.360]  Mitch, you have a name to thank?
[45:35.960 --> 45:36.980]  Yeah, a couple people.
[45:37.520 --> 45:38.760]  Irene from the Bronx.
[45:39.000 --> 45:40.880]  You can only thank one, and then it goes on to the next person.
[45:40.960 --> 45:41.020]  Oh?
[45:41.160 --> 45:41.720]  Then you can go back.
[45:41.800 --> 45:41.980]  Yes.
[45:42.080 --> 45:44.400]  I'd like to thank Cameron from Washington, D.C.
[45:44.400 --> 45:45.340]  I've heard of that place.
[45:45.860 --> 45:47.080]  Colin, who's from Brooklyn.
[45:48.080 --> 45:50.180]  And David from New Rochelle.
[45:51.040 --> 45:53.880]  Shannon from some town in Michigan that I cannot read.
[45:53.880 --> 45:54.940]  Why are we talking so quietly?
[45:55.240 --> 45:55.740]  I don't know.
[45:55.880 --> 45:56.260]  Oh, okay.
[45:56.760 --> 45:59.220]  And we also want to thank Thomas, who's from the Bronx.
[45:59.980 --> 46:00.360]  All right.
[46:00.580 --> 46:01.900]  A lot of local people today.
[46:02.180 --> 46:02.960]  One more, one more.
[46:03.180 --> 46:03.300]  Okay.
[46:03.940 --> 46:07.460]  Dan from South Dakota.
[46:07.960 --> 46:08.820]  What, you can't read that?
[46:08.900 --> 46:11.440]  If you can't read it, the person typing into the computer won't be able to read it.
[46:11.460 --> 46:12.140]  Hand it to Mike.
[46:12.140 --> 46:13.980]  We can do handwriting correction there.
[46:14.260 --> 46:18.100]  I see we have something like, like 10 calls on the line.
[46:18.280 --> 46:19.480]  You know, we don't have enough of these books.
[46:19.680 --> 46:20.540]  We don't have enough.
[46:21.440 --> 46:28.180]  So, I think this is, this is foreshadowing for the Hope Conference where you'll have people lined up into the street to purchase your book.
[46:28.180 --> 46:29.040]  Should have done an auction.
[46:29.240 --> 46:29.760]  We should have.
[46:29.860 --> 46:30.260]  We should have.
[46:30.340 --> 46:30.780]  Look at this.
[46:30.880 --> 46:32.220]  212-209-2950.
[46:32.380 --> 46:33.440]  Should I even be giving out the phone number?
[46:33.600 --> 46:36.380]  We're well over 1,300 bucks now already.
[46:36.380 --> 46:36.880]  That's great.
[46:37.160 --> 46:38.520]  Not counting, not counting the book.
[46:39.140 --> 46:43.280]  So, we're, I guess, on our way to our third 2,000 plus week in a row.
[46:43.720 --> 46:47.300]  So, I guess it'll be a long time before we preempt it again during a fundraiser.
[46:47.600 --> 46:48.560]  So, thank you.
[46:48.660 --> 46:50.400]  Thank you, listeners, for showing your support.
[46:51.320 --> 46:51.560]  Emmanuel.
[46:51.700 --> 46:52.100]  Yes, go ahead.
[46:52.520 --> 46:55.500]  I am going to pledge and support WBI.
[46:55.700 --> 46:55.960]  It's time.
[46:56.080 --> 46:58.200]  It's been a couple years since I've pledged to support WBI.
[46:58.280 --> 47:07.200]  I'm going to hang up now and call 212-209-2950 and pledge $200 because I think it's a worthwhile cause and I think Mark's book is an excellent resource.
[47:07.360 --> 47:14.540]  So, I'm going to hang up now and say goodnight to everybody and please pledge and call 212-209-2950.
[47:14.760 --> 47:15.320]  Thank you, Bernie.
[47:15.560 --> 47:16.320]  Thank you for your show.
[47:16.460 --> 47:17.060]  Thanks a lot.
[47:17.180 --> 47:20.880]  I didn't have the heart to tell him that he's probably too late and that the five books are probably gone.
[47:21.480 --> 47:31.360]  But Bernie, please, if you're listening, pledge to $200 anyway because we know that you support the radio station for what it is and that you don't have to get anything in return to show your gratitude for this place.
[47:31.600 --> 47:32.220]  I don't.
[47:33.140 --> 47:36.240]  So, I expect to see your name on a card when I go back there later on.
[47:36.320 --> 47:37.740]  212-209-2950.
[47:38.020 --> 47:40.560]  Remember, folks, we have different pledge levels, all sorts.
[47:40.940 --> 47:43.740]  If we're out of the book, then get the tickets to Hope.
[47:43.920 --> 47:45.840]  Get the CD set.
[47:46.120 --> 47:47.860]  I'm sorry, the DVD set, right?
[47:47.980 --> 47:48.820]  It's actually CDs.
[47:50.880 --> 47:52.060]  The book is on CD.
[47:52.220 --> 47:53.620]  The Hope is on DVDs.
[47:53.700 --> 47:57.000]  It's a real multimedia experience that we're offering here.
[47:57.020 --> 47:57.620]  We don't have cassettes.
[47:57.820 --> 48:05.600]  And actually, by the way, you ought to point out that Barry Wells and I imagine myself are both on that DVD set because we did a lecture in 2006.
[48:05.860 --> 48:06.240]  That's right.
[48:06.400 --> 48:06.620]  That's right.
[48:06.620 --> 48:08.240]  It was excellent, actually.
[48:08.380 --> 48:10.060]  I think we did two hours, maybe.
[48:10.240 --> 48:14.280]  People still write in to tell us about that, how much they enjoyed it.
[48:14.580 --> 48:19.300]  And Barry, I assume you're looking forward to another few hours of fun and hope?
[48:19.960 --> 48:20.920]  Yes, definitely.
[48:21.360 --> 48:30.060]  One of the things we did again for this year is make a special conference pick set, special edition, very limited edition.
[48:31.240 --> 48:38.040]  and this time it's going to be the size of a credit card where you can break off the picks if you need them.
[48:38.140 --> 48:46.180]  So you can have in your wallet a little steel credit card with stamped out or actually it's chemically edged out picks.
[48:46.680 --> 48:56.040]  And if you need them, for instance, if you've got your keys or if you need to assist somebody, you can just easily snap them off and start picking a lock.
[48:56.320 --> 49:01.400]  Barry, let me ask you, do people in Europe, do you think they get what you're doing more than people in America?
[49:01.560 --> 49:03.400]  Do they value the service that you're providing?
[49:04.980 --> 49:09.240]  Well, the thing is that you see that there's a big change in the U.S.
[49:09.240 --> 49:09.880]  at the moment.
[49:10.580 --> 49:19.120]  I remember when I was at the Hope Conference in 2000, I was the only one doing anything with lock picking, you know.
[49:19.560 --> 49:25.900]  People were looking at me like I was someone from Alien, you know, picking my locks and teaching people how to pick locks.
[49:26.040 --> 49:26.640]  I remember that.
[49:26.760 --> 49:38.620]  And every time I came back, you know, there were more and more people that were there at the last conferences that picked up and, you know, brought locks and some picks and everything.
[49:38.840 --> 49:45.080]  And what you see now is that there's a whole subculture happening as we speak.
[49:45.440 --> 49:47.540]  You know, many, many, many kids in the U.S.
[49:48.160 --> 49:51.160]  are practicing this as a hobby and they take it and they take it very seriously.
[49:51.420 --> 49:53.580]  I mean, you know, it's no longer just for fun.
[49:54.440 --> 50:06.300]  These people are very serious about what they do and the discussions that you see on the public and closed fora are very high quality and there's really a lot of things happening.
[50:07.020 --> 50:19.460]  And I think that I'm not sure if the lock industry realizes what's going on, but, you know, they will definitely see a lot from this generation of lock enthusiasts.
[50:20.440 --> 50:22.240]  Let me just add to that, Barry.
[50:22.460 --> 50:32.800]  I've really supported these groups and I think it's really important that a lot of diverse people with diverse backgrounds be looking at locks and challenging them.
[50:32.920 --> 50:34.420]  They're supposed to be secure.
[50:34.420 --> 50:49.320]  If they're not, they need to be fixed and the public needs to know about it and a lot of IT people now have physical security responsibilities and they need to learn about locks and how to break them in order to assess their own security.
[50:49.640 --> 50:59.020]  I've been to meetings all over the world and I think it's great to see it's not only kids, it's housewives, it's doctors, it's lawyers, it's architects, it's other professionals.
[50:59.300 --> 51:04.320]  It's a really intellectually challenging and mechanically challenging sport.
[51:04.440 --> 51:05.700]  I think it's a lot better than chess.
[51:06.560 --> 51:08.320]  Opening a lock is...
[51:08.320 --> 51:14.220]  you're matching wits against design engineers that are supposed...
[51:14.220 --> 51:16.860]  that are making things that are supposed to keep you out.
[51:17.120 --> 51:22.200]  And so it's a real challenge and an integration of senses to open these.
[51:22.420 --> 51:24.920]  And I think it's important that this continue.
[51:26.280 --> 51:26.800]  Yeah.
[51:27.340 --> 51:28.300]  I want to...
[51:28.300 --> 51:29.080]  Go ahead, Barry.
[51:29.700 --> 51:31.200]  And it's fun.
[51:31.660 --> 51:32.340]  Yeah, it is fun.
[51:32.600 --> 51:52.000]  It's all nice that all these noble principles that are behind it, but at the end of the day, it's really a big thrill to open a lock that's supposed to be closed and just with some small pieces of metal you can master that lock and that really is a great feeling.
[51:52.740 --> 51:56.080]  And I really hope that people will come to the last hope.
[51:56.920 --> 52:01.380]  And, you know, I'm very eager to learn people how to pick locks.
[52:01.660 --> 52:02.920]  They can bring their own.
[52:03.160 --> 52:11.700]  They can use the locks that we bring in the picks and, you know, we can really get them enthusiastic for this great hobby.
[52:11.960 --> 52:24.520]  Yeah, a lot of the locksmith community is very much against this, but frankly, I'd much rather deal with somebody that has to show up at your doorstep to open the lock than some hacker sitting in Romania cracking into your computer.
[52:24.780 --> 52:29.500]  Well, I don't know if those are even hackers, but it's a legitimate concern.
[52:30.120 --> 52:31.620]  Yeah, well, that's the thing about hackers.
[52:31.620 --> 52:49.300]  In general, the mainstream media is always harping on the few people who will use it for their own petty criminal acts rather than for pointing out the important things that public needs to know about the lack of security and technology, whether it's mechanical or computer.
[52:49.660 --> 53:04.400]  And where else to find out about stuff like this but community radio or hacker conferences and, you know, here we are in a front drive to support a radio station like WBAI, where else do you find out about information like this?
[53:04.540 --> 53:19.460]  And, you know, a lot of what you've been talking about, Mark, and also, Barry, about lockpicking, even though I've been going to hacker conferences and hanging out a little bit at lockpicking villages, it's kind of mind-boggling that a 12-year-old can open my door without breaking a window.
[53:20.060 --> 53:24.800]  That means a lot of people can, and this is the kind of information we need to know about.
[53:25.160 --> 53:35.060]  And supporting WBAI and this fun drive is supporting one of the few stations that will give this kind of information out.
[53:35.300 --> 53:42.120]  Otherwise, it's Clear Channel and huge corporations giving the same messages where people like us don't really have a voice.
[53:42.180 --> 53:48.960]  And I wonder how many Clear Channel radio stations out there are talking about how easy it is to break locks, to get past the security.
[53:49.180 --> 53:50.680]  I think they're part of the roost.
[53:50.800 --> 53:55.240]  They're part of the game of making it seem like things are more secure than they actually are.
[53:55.420 --> 53:58.860]  We talk about things having to do with security breaches every week.
[53:59.140 --> 54:00.840]  And there are all sorts of stories.
[54:01.180 --> 54:04.400]  Hackers are the ones telling you the truth about this.
[54:04.580 --> 54:11.880]  Now, coming to the Hope Conference in July in New York, it's one way to learn a whole lot of information that you would not learn otherwise.
[54:12.180 --> 54:21.220]  Listening to the radio, listening to this place, you can become so educated and hear so many new bits of material that you never would have heard otherwise.
[54:21.220 --> 54:29.780]  Yeah, and supporting this station allows this and a lot of other amazing information to be available to you and everyone else.
[54:29.920 --> 54:35.100]  And at the same time, there are these amazing pledges that are available for incredible prices.
[54:35.440 --> 54:37.820]  The books are probably long gone by now.
[54:37.820 --> 54:38.220]  I think so.
[54:38.340 --> 54:39.300]  There's a flurry of calls.
[54:39.420 --> 54:42.440]  But the Hope Conference costs what when you pre-register?
[54:42.560 --> 54:43.980]  It's $75 normally.
[54:43.980 --> 54:47.620]  So we're offering for $100, you'll get that plus the Hope No.
[54:47.760 --> 54:51.700]  6 DVD set, which normally goes for I think $400, right?
[54:51.780 --> 54:52.520]  It's a lot.
[54:52.800 --> 54:53.680]  Something crazy like that.
[54:53.680 --> 54:56.100]  I mean, it's worth it because it's 80 DVDs.
[54:56.260 --> 54:59.820]  And also you'll get the off-the-hook t-shirt.
[54:59.960 --> 55:01.060]  So it's a really great deal.
[55:01.060 --> 55:06.060]  And it's a donation from us to the radio station to encourage you to give a call.
[55:06.180 --> 55:07.660]  Oh my God, is that really the number?
[55:07.720 --> 55:08.880]  We're over 3,000 folks.
[55:09.060 --> 55:10.680]  Thanks so much for calling in.
[55:11.100 --> 55:13.240]  We're doing better now than we did the first couple of weeks.
[55:13.440 --> 55:15.700]  $3,205 is what I'm seeing up there.
[55:15.820 --> 55:19.480]  Thank you volunteers down in the tally room for adding that up so quickly too.
[55:19.860 --> 55:23.880]  But again, we have about five minutes left if you want to take advantage of any of the deals.
[55:24.020 --> 55:25.220]  Running them down very quickly.
[55:25.900 --> 55:27.360]  212-209-2950.
[55:27.540 --> 55:29.700]  $25 and above, you get an off-the-hook t-shirt.
[55:30.320 --> 55:35.660]  $50, you get the fetching 2600 sweatshirt that not Kevin has.
[55:35.720 --> 55:36.320]  Do you have it today?
[55:36.560 --> 55:37.560]  No, unfortunately I do not.
[55:37.820 --> 55:40.540]  You were wearing it all weekend in Dayton and people were coming after you.
[55:40.660 --> 55:43.880]  I sold unknown amounts because I was wearing it.
[55:44.420 --> 55:45.580]  Well, hopefully we kept track.
[55:46.100 --> 55:48.920]  And that says 2600 in big red numbers on the front.
[55:48.920 --> 55:50.960]  And the word hacker in big red letters on the back.
[55:51.500 --> 55:52.960]  Zip up hooded sweatshirt.
[55:53.100 --> 55:53.620]  Looks really cool.
[55:53.920 --> 55:56.320]  That's for a pledge of $50 plus you get the off-the-hook t-shirt.
[55:56.460 --> 55:58.000]  212-209-2950.
[55:58.120 --> 56:05.380]  Pledge $100, you get the Hope ticket to the Hope Conference July 18, 19, and 20 at the Hotel Pennsylvania in New York City.
[56:05.680 --> 56:07.080]  With the blinking light.
[56:07.340 --> 56:09.040]  Yeah, blinking light RFID tag.
[56:09.540 --> 56:16.300]  And you'll also get the Hope number 6 DVD set, 80 DVDs, and the off-the-hook t-shirt.
[56:17.080 --> 56:23.780]  And for a pledge of $150, you get two tickets plus the DVD set plus the off-the-hook t-shirt.
[56:24.380 --> 56:28.200]  And if you want more information on the Hope Conference, www.hope.net.
[56:28.380 --> 56:29.720]  And we hope to see a lot of people there.
[56:29.720 --> 56:37.400]  I might also, if any of your listeners want more information, they can certainly come to our website, which is security.org.
[56:37.600 --> 56:40.480]  And my blog is in.security.org.
[56:40.600 --> 56:44.900]  And Barry's website is tool, T-O-O-O-L dot N-L.
[56:45.060 --> 56:46.180]  It's got an extra information.
[56:46.460 --> 56:47.020]  It's an extra O.
[56:47.020 --> 56:47.640]  Extra O there.
[56:47.720 --> 56:47.900]  Yes.
[56:48.160 --> 56:51.740]  Barry, anything extra you'd like to say about the tool over in the Netherlands or Germany?
[56:54.980 --> 56:57.700]  Well, you know, I'm almost falling asleep, so it's 2 o'clock.
[56:57.860 --> 56:59.940]  So I think I'll just leave it like this.
[57:00.360 --> 57:00.440]  Okay.
[57:01.920 --> 57:03.180]  Thanks for the opportunity.
[57:04.600 --> 57:06.020]  But I'm going to bed.
[57:06.200 --> 57:06.440]  All right.
[57:06.520 --> 57:16.920]  Well, we look forward to seeing you wide awake over here in New York in July, teaching people all sorts of interesting bits of trivia and technology in regards to locks.
[57:17.360 --> 57:19.260]  And thanks so much for all you've done over the years.
[57:19.340 --> 57:22.220]  And thank you, too, Mark, for all you're doing right now as well.
[57:22.380 --> 57:22.760]  Absolutely.
[57:23.340 --> 57:26.880]  And Mitch, I want to thank you for coming by and for continuing to turn those TV sets off.
[57:27.020 --> 57:32.720]  We'll be back again next week for another exciting edition of Off the Hook where we're going to have a major announcement.
[57:33.220 --> 57:34.060]  Yeah, that's right.
[57:34.160 --> 57:36.860]  A major announcement coming next week on Off the Hook.
[57:37.040 --> 57:39.560]  So you want to stay tuned for that.
[57:40.280 --> 57:42.000]  Yeah, it just keeps getting better.
[57:42.000 --> 57:43.920]  Emmanuel Gosling from Off the Hook.
[57:44.020 --> 57:44.180]  Good night.
[57:49.190 --> 57:56.050]  Somebody done changed Somebody done changed the lock on my door
[58:00.570 --> 58:02.070]  Somebody done changed
[58:06.340 --> 58:08.900]  Somebody changed the lock on my door
[58:13.460 --> 58:20.100]  Call the key that I got changed the lock on my door And won't fit that lock no more
[58:27.060 --> 58:47.100]  Now I came home last night about half past ten Tried to get the key fit in the lock but I couldn't get it in Cause somebody done changed Ooh Change that lock on my door Change that lock on my door Now
[58:51.980 --> 58:53.690]  You know the key that I got
[58:56.730 --> 58:58.420]  Won't fit that lock no more
[59:01.470 --> 59:09.690]  I gotta tell you one more time I looked through the window to see what I could see.
[59:11.150 --> 59:15.910]  She was talking to someone else, and I know it wasn't me.
[59:16.390 --> 59:25.430]  I said, Daddy, Daddy, Daddy, Daddy, Daddy, Daddy, Daddy, you don't have to go,
[59:30.040 --> 59:36.250]  cause I don't change, I don't change that much.
[59:36.770 --> 59:37.270]  Oh, my God.
[59:44.320 --> 59:48.660]  I walked down the street, looking where I used to go.
[59:50.020 --> 59:52.000]  You got a mean black snake.
[59:53.180 --> 59:57.380]  I can't go back no more, cause somebody don't change.
[01:00:00.120 --> 01:00:02.520]  I'm trying to tell you somebody don't change.
[01:00:02.520 --> 01:00:03.940]  There's a lock on my door.
[01:00:09.150 --> 01:00:11.130]  Call the key that I got.
[01:00:13.670 --> 01:00:16.250]  Do you know that I won't get that lock no more?
[01:00:16.570 --> 01:00:19.130]  All right.
[01:00:19.310 --> 01:00:19.470]  Wow.
[01:00:19.790 --> 01:00:22.690]  I love me some Jim Brown.
[01:00:23.770 --> 01:00:25.990]  Known to a lot of people as James.
[01:00:26.410 --> 01:00:26.450]  Bill's...
[01:00:26.450 --> 01:00:26.470]  Bill's...
[01:00:26.470 --> 01:00:26.530]  Amen.