[00:35.970 --> 00:39.920]  And you're listening to radio station WBAI New York, where somebody pushed the wrong button.
[00:40.720 --> 00:44.280]  And it's 7 o'clock, time for Off the Hook.
[02:06.940 --> 02:07.740]  And good evening to everybody.
[02:07.840 --> 02:08.840]  The program is Off the Hook.
[02:08.900 --> 02:09.680]  Emmanuel Goldstein here with you.
[02:09.740 --> 02:12.620]  Just checking the entire board to see if there's any other buttons that aren't pushed.
[02:12.620 --> 02:16.420]  I think somebody comes in here and just... sort of a challenge every week.
[02:16.520 --> 02:18.320]  They push something that makes things not work.
[02:18.380 --> 02:19.460]  And I have to find it every week.
[02:19.940 --> 02:20.700]  Usually I do.
[02:20.820 --> 02:22.600]  This week I took a little bit longer than usual.
[02:23.360 --> 02:23.860]  Good evening.
[02:24.080 --> 02:25.640]  The program is, as I said, Off the Hook.
[02:25.820 --> 02:27.900]  We talk about technology and things that don't work.
[02:28.020 --> 02:29.240]  Sometimes things that do work.
[02:29.820 --> 02:32.300]  Joined this week by Mike.
[02:32.700 --> 02:33.000]  Hi.
[02:33.720 --> 02:35.620]  And it looks like Lexicon over there.
[02:35.800 --> 02:36.040]  Hello.
[02:36.640 --> 02:37.340]  And Rob T.
[02:37.460 --> 02:37.840]  Firefly.
[02:38.100 --> 02:38.500]  Good evening.
[02:38.800 --> 02:40.400]  On the side of the room we've got Kevin.
[02:40.800 --> 02:41.200]  Hello.
[02:41.440 --> 02:42.360]  Red Hack joins us.
[02:42.620 --> 02:42.760]  Hello.
[02:43.160 --> 02:46.480]  And we have down in Philadelphia, Bernie S.
[02:47.900 --> 02:49.620]  Do we have Bernie S in Philadelphia?
[02:49.860 --> 02:50.960]  We lost him again this week.
[02:51.260 --> 02:52.020]  Bernie, are you there?
[02:53.060 --> 02:53.860]  Telephonic communications.
[02:53.980 --> 02:54.740]  That's something that...
[02:54.740 --> 02:56.160]  You don't have to push a button to...
[02:56.160 --> 02:57.000]  I'll push it again.
[02:57.160 --> 02:58.120]  I pushed it a second time.
[02:58.300 --> 02:59.060]  Bernie, are you there?
[02:59.580 --> 03:00.480]  No, he's not there.
[03:00.600 --> 03:00.740]  Huh.
[03:01.160 --> 03:02.940]  Unless somebody pushed a different button here.
[03:03.080 --> 03:04.100]  But no, all those buttons are pushed.
[03:04.580 --> 03:05.740]  I can try calling him back.
[03:05.740 --> 03:06.280]  Would you do that?
[03:06.380 --> 03:06.620]  All right.
[03:06.720 --> 03:07.220]  He's missing.
[03:07.500 --> 03:08.320]  Bernie's missing again.
[03:08.320 --> 03:10.560]  He was missing the whole show last week.
[03:10.860 --> 03:15.300]  And apparently phone lines to Pennsylvania aren't what they used to be.
[03:15.960 --> 03:16.880]  It's a shame, really.
[03:17.240 --> 03:17.400]  Okay.
[03:17.520 --> 03:19.880]  We are one week closer to the conference.
[03:19.920 --> 03:21.980]  Taking place July 18th, 19th, and 20th.
[03:22.080 --> 03:23.640]  We're talking about the last HOPE conference.
[03:23.640 --> 03:25.240]  HOPE being Hackers on Planet Earth.
[03:25.760 --> 03:26.580]  A lot of excitement.
[03:26.820 --> 03:31.200]  We've released the entire schedule as far as days and times and things like that.
[03:31.200 --> 03:32.040]  Is Bernie with us now?
[03:32.480 --> 03:32.840]  No.
[03:33.000 --> 03:33.760]  You did it awfully fast.
[03:33.780 --> 03:35.280]  I could put his voicemail.
[03:35.280 --> 03:35.980]  Your phone is flashing.
[03:35.980 --> 03:38.740]  My phone is telling me that he's calling me on my cell phone.
[03:38.740 --> 03:38.900]  Okay.
[03:38.920 --> 03:40.180]  Well, why don't you put the cell phone on the air?
[03:40.240 --> 03:40.780]  Can we do that?
[03:41.020 --> 03:42.540]  I can put it next to the air.
[03:43.360 --> 03:44.040]  It's too late.
[03:44.040 --> 03:44.720]  I've missed the call.
[03:45.020 --> 03:47.940]  You know, this is a real comedy of errors tonight.
[03:48.480 --> 03:49.600]  Things aren't going very well.
[03:50.380 --> 03:50.740]  Okay.
[03:50.920 --> 03:52.160]  Does anybody have any updates?
[03:52.360 --> 03:54.960]  Let's see if we can kill a little bit of time before...
[03:54.960 --> 03:55.360]  Not Kevin.
[03:55.440 --> 03:56.240]  It looks like you have something to say.
[03:57.980 --> 04:00.840]  You were raising your hand and nodding like you had something to say.
[04:00.840 --> 04:02.260]  Or was that just a nervous tick?
[04:02.420 --> 04:02.440]  No.
[04:02.440 --> 04:03.580]  No, I just had a spasm or something.
[04:03.580 --> 04:03.840]  Okay.
[04:03.980 --> 04:04.640]  It's a random flail.
[04:04.820 --> 04:05.500]  Well, all right.
[04:05.500 --> 04:05.760]  Fine.
[04:07.260 --> 04:11.520]  We have some stories we can get into and various other bits of information.
[04:13.060 --> 04:16.160]  First, I just want to see if Bernie is on the actual phone because I haven't talked to him in a while.
[04:16.340 --> 04:17.020]  I mean...
[04:17.540 --> 04:18.240]  Is it ringing?
[04:18.460 --> 04:19.000]  What's happening?
[04:19.040 --> 04:19.420]  All right.
[04:20.200 --> 04:20.700]  Is he there?
[04:20.920 --> 04:21.680]  Bernie, are you there?
[04:21.900 --> 04:22.740]  Bernie, are you with us?
[04:23.040 --> 04:23.400]  How are you?
[04:23.740 --> 04:24.740]  What's going on down there?
[04:25.160 --> 04:27.280]  Oh, I'm in a bad area.
[04:27.480 --> 04:27.920]  I'm sorry.
[04:28.560 --> 04:30.000]  But I'm talking to you now.
[04:30.260 --> 04:30.620]  Okay.
[04:30.620 --> 04:31.820]  Well, are you moving or something?
[04:32.500 --> 04:39.240]  I am actually moving as we speak, but I'm not sure how legal that is, but I can't...
[04:39.240 --> 04:44.060]  So I can't actually tell our listeners where I am because that might be self-incrimination.
[04:44.300 --> 04:46.560]  Wait, you're saying you're driving and talking on the phone at the same time?
[04:46.880 --> 04:48.320]  Well, I'm doing so safely.
[04:48.600 --> 04:49.900]  I have both hands on the wheel.
[04:50.400 --> 04:51.920]  Well, then where's your phone?
[04:52.780 --> 04:53.800]  Where is my phone?
[04:53.940 --> 04:56.900]  It's strapped to my head with a bandana.
[04:57.240 --> 04:58.860]  Oh, you're kidding me.
[04:58.860 --> 04:59.580]  I'm not kidding.
[04:59.580 --> 05:04.560]  Actually, why is that illegal and having a hands-free device is legal?
[05:05.160 --> 05:06.340]  Yeah, it's a very good question.
[05:06.460 --> 05:07.300]  My hands are free.
[05:07.560 --> 05:07.960]  Uh-huh.
[05:08.180 --> 05:09.700]  It probably looks a lot sillier.
[05:10.020 --> 05:14.420]  And a bandana is, as far as I'm concerned, a hands-free device.
[05:15.360 --> 05:16.240]  How about...
[05:16.240 --> 05:18.660]  Here's just a little brainstorm here that I just had.
[05:19.400 --> 05:34.060]  To save the money of all the people that have to go out and buy these hands-free adapters for all the different phones that they have and make sure that they're compatible with the car they're in and everything like that, why don't we simply start marketing hands-free phone devices that are simply bandanas?
[05:34.060 --> 05:41.740]  I think a 2600 band... a 2600 hands-free phone bandana would be an amazing thing to have.
[05:41.880 --> 05:42.920]  We got marketing to work on that?
[05:43.220 --> 05:43.620]  Okay.
[05:43.900 --> 05:44.680]  I think...
[05:44.680 --> 05:46.180]  I think the wheels will be in motion.
[05:46.300 --> 05:49.340]  Let's see if we can get this in production by the conference.
[05:49.340 --> 05:50.260]  I think it would be really good.
[05:50.540 --> 05:51.400]  We could do it.
[05:51.800 --> 05:54.980]  We could probably sell it for substantially less than the actual electronic versions.
[05:55.480 --> 05:55.920]  Oh, yes.
[05:56.040 --> 05:56.980]  Well, a little bit less.
[05:57.860 --> 06:02.880]  Emmanuel, I want to give a shout-out to the New Jersey State Police, who about an hour...
[06:02.880 --> 06:10.340]  There are two New Jersey State Police who about an hour ago were very helpful, and they're out of the Hope Barracks in New Jersey, from Hope, New Jersey.
[06:10.500 --> 06:11.580]  The Hope Barracks.
[06:11.880 --> 06:12.240]  Yes.
[06:12.440 --> 06:12.800]  All right.
[06:13.020 --> 06:29.820]  They were very helpful in assuring that I would not be injured as I took a photograph of the sign that said, State Police, Hope Barracks, and right below that, on the same posts, is a sign that said, Land of Make-Believe.
[06:30.320 --> 06:31.180]  Oh, my God.
[06:31.560 --> 06:34.420]  Well, now you say they helped to ensure that you didn't get injured.
[06:34.520 --> 06:37.340]  Did they just simply not aim at you while you were doing this?
[06:37.420 --> 06:38.120]  Is that how they helped you?
[06:38.120 --> 06:39.140]  Yes, they were very polite.
[06:39.180 --> 06:46.300]  I wish I got their names, but I pulled over to the side of the road, and they pulled it behind me shortly thereafter and asked what was going on, and I gave them a good reason.
[06:46.700 --> 06:47.740]  Maybe not that reason.
[06:48.100 --> 06:57.820]  But so we went back to look for something that might have blown out of my car, just past the sign, and then I asked one of them about the sign underneath.
[06:58.240 --> 07:03.100]  I asked them if there were the Hope Barracks, and they said, yes, there were the Hope Barracks of the New Jersey Police.
[07:03.200 --> 07:05.760]  And I said, well, what about the sign underneath that says the Land of Make-Believe?
[07:05.800 --> 07:07.380]  I said, do you guys get some ribbing about that?
[07:07.440 --> 07:08.680]  And they kind of grinned, and they said, yeah.
[07:10.480 --> 07:11.300]  That's quite a tale.
[07:11.420 --> 07:14.880]  What did you mean, you went to look for something that might have blown out of your car?
[07:14.880 --> 07:16.080]  Sorry, that sounds a little shady there.
[07:16.660 --> 07:23.760]  Well, you know, that would have been a good reason for me to be on the side of the road on a busy highway.
[07:25.020 --> 07:31.120]  So, you know, ostensibly I was looking for something that blew out of my window, a piece of paper, and they were very helpful.
[07:31.520 --> 07:32.560]  They even helped me look for it.
[07:33.980 --> 07:47.880]  And then we went past the sign that I also wanted to photograph and got a picture of two New York State troopers standing under the sign that said, State Police Hope Barracks, the land of make-believe.
[07:48.080 --> 07:53.860]  Okay, well, I hope we see copies of these pictures as well as a copy of a picture of you wearing this hands-free bandana device.
[07:54.740 --> 07:58.260]  Perhaps the imaginary item that flew out of your car ended up in the land of make-believe.
[07:58.440 --> 07:58.620]  Yeah.
[07:59.520 --> 08:01.720]  And that is probably why we couldn't find it.
[08:01.720 --> 08:02.340]  Yeah, definitely.
[08:02.560 --> 08:03.780]  It's in a dimension now or something.
[08:04.040 --> 08:05.480]  You just have to close your eyes.
[08:05.840 --> 08:06.120]  Yeah.
[08:06.880 --> 08:09.660]  Okay, well, it sounds like you're having quite a time over there.
[08:09.780 --> 08:14.000]  And you sort of let it slip that you're in New Jersey or that you've been to New Jersey recently.
[08:14.580 --> 08:16.540]  That's as close as I can come, unfortunately.
[08:16.820 --> 08:17.020]  Yeah.
[08:17.220 --> 08:17.680]  Well, okay.
[08:18.100 --> 08:21.860]  I'm glad we have you on the phone that you have remained connected to us for this long.
[08:22.560 --> 08:22.800]  Thank you.
[08:22.880 --> 08:24.140]  Mike, looks like you have something to say.
[08:24.780 --> 08:25.720]  Not about New Jersey.
[08:25.720 --> 08:26.860]  Okay, well, what do you have there?
[08:27.000 --> 08:28.360]  I have all kinds of news stories.
[08:28.520 --> 08:30.760]  All right, tell us one and then we'll take it from there.
[08:30.760 --> 08:31.940]  There's this one from Japan.
[08:32.320 --> 08:34.980]  There's a photograph here, and I'm going to show it on the air.
[08:34.980 --> 08:35.360]  Okay.
[08:35.580 --> 08:38.900]  Of a Japanese cigarette vending machine.
[08:39.480 --> 08:40.260]  And one...
[08:40.260 --> 08:41.360]  I heard about this.
[08:41.540 --> 08:41.640]  Yeah.
[08:41.760 --> 08:42.660]  I heard about this.
[08:42.760 --> 08:43.360]  You heard about...
[08:43.360 --> 08:44.180]  Those Japanese are so cool.
[08:44.520 --> 08:47.900]  Yeah, tell us what these cigarette machines are able to do.
[08:47.900 --> 08:50.020]  Well, they're able to verify your age.
[08:50.540 --> 08:55.940]  You know, you have to be, I don't know if it's 18 in Japan or whatever it is, to buy cigarettes.
[08:56.320 --> 09:06.180]  And so there's this card with probably some kind of fancy Japanese technology that you can get and insert into the thing to prove you're of age.
[09:08.280 --> 09:09.780]  It's 20 years old in Japan.
[09:09.980 --> 09:19.040]  But if you don't have one of these cards, then there's a camera that looks at you and verifies your facial features and guesses if you're of age or not.
[09:19.200 --> 09:23.340]  So it just looks at your face and says you are above 20 or you are below 20.
[09:23.340 --> 09:28.280]  Well, if you have to be well above 20, according to the machine, to be approved.
[09:28.720 --> 09:30.960]  What if you hold your dog up to the machine?
[09:31.740 --> 09:33.240]  They didn't try that.
[09:33.360 --> 09:41.240]  But what they did try is holding up to the machine some photographs from a magazine of people over the age of 20.
[09:41.420 --> 09:42.640]  And apparently that worked.
[09:42.720 --> 09:43.220]  That works?
[09:43.360 --> 09:43.760]  That works.
[09:43.900 --> 09:44.460]  Oh, my God.
[09:44.780 --> 09:45.820]  Just holding up a photograph.
[09:45.820 --> 09:46.440]  That's beautiful.
[09:46.720 --> 09:47.200]  Okay.
[09:47.360 --> 09:48.560]  Well, so much for that technology.
[09:48.680 --> 09:49.080]  20?
[09:49.320 --> 09:50.900]  The age there for cigarettes is 20?
[09:51.100 --> 09:51.880]  That's what it says.
[09:51.880 --> 09:57.440]  So, in actuality, the United States has a lower age for something than another country.
[09:57.700 --> 09:58.480]  Yay, cigarettes.
[09:58.760 --> 09:58.940]  Yeah.
[09:59.020 --> 10:01.460]  It's amazing that it's cigarettes, but certainly not a lot of other things.
[10:01.540 --> 10:01.720]  Wow.
[10:02.120 --> 10:02.520]  Okay.
[10:02.640 --> 10:03.220]  That's interesting.
[10:03.440 --> 10:05.440]  So we don't have machines like that here, do we?
[10:05.720 --> 10:06.620]  Not that I know of.
[10:06.700 --> 10:07.160]  Not yet.
[10:07.400 --> 10:07.620]  Wow.
[10:07.800 --> 10:08.240]  Not yet.
[10:08.740 --> 10:09.220]  All right.
[10:09.260 --> 10:10.120]  Well, I've got one for you.
[10:10.680 --> 10:11.480]  CCTV cameras.
[10:11.580 --> 10:12.320]  We all know what those are.
[10:13.060 --> 10:18.900]  They're the cameras that watch people and there are a lot of them in England.
[10:18.900 --> 10:28.100]  They now are using artificial intelligence software and that software is being developed to hear sounds like windows smashing.
[10:28.460 --> 10:29.100]  Yeah.
[10:29.280 --> 10:29.780]  Things like that.
[10:30.220 --> 10:34.640]  And also, it can listen for crowd noise of various sorts.
[10:34.920 --> 10:44.020]  The existing software is sophisticated enough to identify minor visual cues such as whether a car aerial is up or more complex activities such as violent behavior.
[10:44.140 --> 10:46.040]  Well, why would you need to know if a car aerial is up?
[10:46.520 --> 10:50.480]  The coming surveillance state in Britain needs to know everything at all times.
[10:50.660 --> 10:51.620]  Yeah, but why is that even interesting?
[10:52.060 --> 10:52.760]  Who cares?
[10:52.940 --> 10:54.080]  Well, apparently they do.
[10:54.600 --> 10:58.660]  The visual recognition software, they say, will be able to identify visual patterns.
[10:58.660 --> 11:01.860]  But for the next stage, yes, there is a next stage.
[11:02.020 --> 11:05.840]  We want to get the camera to pivot if it hears a certain type of sound.
[11:06.120 --> 11:15.600]  So, if in a car park, that's how they say parking lot over there, someone smashes a window, the camera would turn to look at them and the camera operator would be alerted.
[11:15.840 --> 11:20.220]  The longer artificial intelligence is in the software, the more it learns.
[11:20.220 --> 11:31.700]  Now, later versions, yes, there is another step after this, later versions will get cleverer as time goes on, perhaps eventually being able to identify specific words being said or violent sounds.
[11:32.340 --> 11:32.820]  Yeah.
[11:33.100 --> 11:33.820]  Now, in identifying sound...
[11:33.820 --> 11:35.200]  What is a violent sound?
[11:35.200 --> 11:37.520]  Well, they're looking for the shapes of sound.
[11:38.320 --> 11:44.980]  In the same way, if you close your eyes, you can trace the shape of a physical object and read its profile with your hand.
[11:44.980 --> 11:50.100]  We are developing shapes of sound so the software recognizes them.
[11:50.220 --> 11:59.300]  And by the end of the study, the researchers hope to have generated algorithms, a mathematical formula for solving problems that can be used inside existing CCTV software.
[11:59.860 --> 12:06.860]  And they say each successive generation of algorithms will become more sophisticated as they learn what they are looking and listening for.
[12:07.420 --> 12:10.660]  I know, Redhack, you thought that was very interesting when we talked about this a couple of weeks ago.
[12:11.300 --> 12:11.420]  Yeah.
[12:12.640 --> 12:13.000]  Yeah.
[12:13.280 --> 12:14.260]  And Bernie, how about you?
[12:14.260 --> 12:16.220]  I think it's fascinating.
[12:17.260 --> 12:20.100]  But it just shows that we're on that slippery slope.
[12:20.320 --> 12:28.680]  And we have to think about countermeasures to protect our privacy or anonymity.
[12:29.000 --> 12:33.100]  There's a lot of confusion about the difference between privacy and anonymity.
[12:33.220 --> 12:34.360]  And I just made that mistake.
[12:35.020 --> 12:38.880]  I'm in favor of anonymity in situations like this.
[12:39.300 --> 12:42.660]  You have no privacy when you're out in public areas.
[12:42.840 --> 12:43.560]  But you're right.
[12:43.680 --> 12:44.960]  I think you have a right to anonymity.
[12:45.500 --> 12:47.440]  So what shape would a violent sound be?
[12:47.860 --> 12:51.500]  Well, we have to make a violent sound and record it and then look at the wave patterns.
[12:52.000 --> 12:52.880]  Like a triangle?
[12:53.080 --> 12:53.840]  I don't know.
[12:54.600 --> 12:55.720]  But I guess...
[12:55.720 --> 12:57.420]  You could easily stab someone with a triangle.
[12:57.420 --> 12:58.460]  Yeah, that's what I was thinking.
[12:58.740 --> 12:59.320]  I mean, it's pointy.
[12:59.420 --> 13:00.280]  But what if it's a circle?
[13:00.860 --> 13:01.040]  Emanuel?
[13:01.240 --> 13:02.080]  That'd be a peaceful sound.
[13:02.140 --> 13:02.280]  Yeah.
[13:02.440 --> 13:02.940]  Go ahead, Bernie.
[13:02.940 --> 13:04.080]  I have a suggestion.
[13:04.360 --> 13:21.980]  People could try to create different sounds in a car park equipped with those types of cameras that are directed by violent sounds and see if the camera moves in their direction after they make the sound, they'll know that that is identified as a violent sound.
[13:21.980 --> 13:32.660]  So you could just go through a whole bunch of different waveforms and devise the acoustical signatures of what the system determines to be violent sounds.
[13:33.200 --> 13:34.100]  Oh, was that one?
[13:34.620 --> 13:35.020]  Yeah.
[13:35.020 --> 13:35.560]  Was that a violent sound?
[13:35.740 --> 13:37.300]  Well, it was a pothole, actually.
[13:37.520 --> 13:38.400]  That was a pothole?
[13:38.460 --> 13:40.460]  What are you walking around outside in it?
[13:40.560 --> 13:41.600]  That sound is so close.
[13:41.980 --> 13:42.780]  Something like that.
[13:42.860 --> 13:43.060]  Wow.
[13:43.340 --> 13:54.560]  Well, my idea for how to mess up these cameras is to simply have like a sort of a violent thon where basically you have a crowd of people surrounding the thing and everybody starts screaming at once.
[13:54.740 --> 13:59.200]  And then you just see the poor camera going in circles trying to find all the violence, but there's violence everywhere.
[13:59.420 --> 14:00.340]  It's inherent in the system.
[14:00.540 --> 14:01.620]  But then it wouldn't say anything...
[14:01.620 --> 14:02.140]  Better than that...
[14:02.640 --> 14:03.180]  I'm sorry.
[14:03.260 --> 14:07.760]  Better than that, people could make successively violent sounds in a circular pattern.
[14:08.100 --> 14:12.160]  So the camera would just go round and round and round in a circle until it spins so fast that...
[14:12.160 --> 14:12.880]  It blows up.
[14:13.160 --> 14:13.260]  Yeah.
[14:13.440 --> 14:14.500]  And then it would record that.
[14:14.680 --> 14:17.560]  But if you keep doing that, the camera will learn that what you're doing is not violent.
[14:17.560 --> 14:19.980]  So it would defeat the whole purpose of...
[14:19.980 --> 14:20.660]  Eventually it would learn.
[14:20.760 --> 14:21.160]  It would take a while.
[14:21.240 --> 14:21.580]  Yes, Red Hack.
[14:21.760 --> 14:27.860]  What if you carry some kind of speaker that has happy sounds to muffle your violentness?
[14:28.020 --> 14:28.160]  Yeah.
[14:28.600 --> 14:28.960]  Every...
[14:28.960 --> 14:30.600]  You sort of like buffer it with happiness.
[14:31.060 --> 14:36.100]  It's sort of like how phone freaks used to sort of mask the 2600 hertz tone.
[14:36.260 --> 14:38.980]  They'd have pink noise surrounding it and they'd mask it that way.
[14:39.060 --> 14:40.980]  So the happy sounds could be the pink noise.
[14:41.780 --> 14:43.840]  We could even call it that so they don't know what we're talking about.
[14:44.500 --> 14:44.660]  Yeah.
[14:44.900 --> 14:45.060]  See?
[14:45.540 --> 14:45.900]  This...
[14:45.900 --> 14:46.820]  What are you talking about?
[14:46.940 --> 14:47.440]  Yeah, exactly.
[14:47.560 --> 14:48.360]  See, it works very well.
[14:48.520 --> 14:48.900]  Very well.
[14:49.620 --> 14:49.940]  Okay.
[14:50.160 --> 14:51.400]  We have listener mail.
[14:51.520 --> 14:52.440]  Do you have any other stories there, Mike?
[14:52.580 --> 14:55.360]  I have all kinds of stories, but I don't know how many you want to go through.
[14:55.400 --> 14:56.620]  Well, just the interesting ones.
[14:56.620 --> 14:58.700]  I have a lot of listener mail here that I'd like to get to.
[14:58.780 --> 15:00.240]  And of course, we have our phone calls.
[15:00.340 --> 15:02.940]  People are already taking numbers to line up.
[15:02.940 --> 15:05.960]  I have a story about privacy since Bernie S is so interested in that.
[15:06.120 --> 15:06.440]  Privacy.
[15:06.560 --> 15:06.700]  Okay.
[15:06.720 --> 15:06.960]  Yes.
[15:06.960 --> 15:07.420]  Still exists.
[15:07.560 --> 15:07.800]  That's good.
[15:07.860 --> 15:09.200]  Well, not so much.
[15:09.580 --> 15:12.460]  The US and Europe are nearing an agreement on private data.
[15:13.300 --> 15:14.060]  Doesn't that sound good?
[15:14.060 --> 15:15.760]  Well, it sounds like they're trying to protect us.
[15:16.080 --> 15:17.480]  Well, it's not the case.
[15:17.840 --> 15:18.080]  All right.
[15:18.080 --> 15:30.980]  The United States and the European Union are nearing completion of an agreement allowing law enforcement and security agencies to obtain private information like credit card transactions, travel histories, and internet browsing habits about people on the other side of the Atlantic.
[15:32.020 --> 15:32.440]  Okay.
[15:32.440 --> 15:50.860]  The potential agreement, as outlined in a report that the New York Times obtained, would represent a diplomatic breakthrough for American counterterrorism officials who have clashed with the EU over demands for personal data because Europe has some actual privacy protections and the United States doesn't.
[15:51.060 --> 15:57.220]  And the United States wants to export this lack of privacy protection to Europe.
[15:58.420 --> 16:00.240]  And so soon they'll succeed.
[16:00.420 --> 16:01.000]  Won't that be great?
[16:01.960 --> 16:02.900]  I'm kind of scared.
[16:03.760 --> 16:06.740]  Bernie, I think you're pretty frightened, too, as you're driving down there wherever you are.
[16:07.080 --> 16:20.140]  Well, I'm not frightened of driving, but this is sort of another step past the we'll scratch your back if you scratch ours technique that intelligence agencies around the world have been using for a long time.
[16:20.340 --> 16:20.720]  The U.S.
[16:20.940 --> 16:30.280]  has long had laws against its own intelligence agencies spying on its own citizens, which we're finding out that they're ignoring anyway now.
[16:31.400 --> 16:50.220]  But there's something called the UK-USA alliance between both MI6 and the CIA, whereby each country would circumvent their own laws by having their sister country do the eavesdropping for them, and they just share the data back and forth.
[16:50.280 --> 16:52.520]  But I guess they've just thrown all those rules out the window at this point.
[16:53.440 --> 17:08.580]  One of the interesting things is that there's an agreement, which sounds good, that information that reveals race, religion, political opinion, health, or sexual life may not be used by a government, quote, unless domestic law provides appropriate safeguards.
[17:09.500 --> 17:16.660]  But it does not spell out what an appropriate safeguard is, so each government can just say, yeah, yeah, appropriate, and be done with it.
[17:17.500 --> 17:18.440]  Yeah, typical.
[17:19.120 --> 17:25.380]  I should point out also that we have a number of talks that will be focusing on privacy issues throughout the conference.
[17:25.500 --> 17:37.320]  Probably the biggest one, and certainly the one that's going to attract the most attention, is our friend Steve Rombaum, who will be returning to the HOPE conference this time, hopefully not being taken away by federal authorities, as he was last time.
[17:37.600 --> 17:39.260]  And boy, what a lot of fun that was.
[17:39.780 --> 17:48.060]  This year, to make up for that, in part, he's giving a three-hour talk on Saturday evening starting at five o'clock, Saturday, July 19th.
[17:49.040 --> 17:55.660]  And believe me, he gave a three-hour talk in New Jersey to make up for the one that didn't take place at HOPE number six.
[17:55.860 --> 18:05.100]  And that was packed, and he could have gone for another three hours with all sorts of interesting material about privacy, and your data, and how it gets out there, and how it's read, and analyzed, and things like that.
[18:05.380 --> 18:13.120]  But again, that's one of many talks that's taking place, as I said, Saturday, the 19th, at 5 p.m., in what we're calling the Hopper Room.
[18:13.360 --> 18:14.480]  Who would like to explain?
[18:14.600 --> 18:15.920]  We have four rooms.
[18:16.120 --> 18:19.560]  We have four tracks, three scheduled tracks, one unscheduled track.
[18:19.680 --> 18:22.760]  And we've named them interesting things this year.
[18:22.880 --> 18:24.880]  Hopper is one of the tracks.
[18:25.100 --> 18:27.940]  Who would like to tell us what Hopper means?
[18:28.300 --> 18:29.060]  As in Grace?
[18:29.580 --> 18:29.980]  Okay.
[18:30.720 --> 18:31.520]  Tell us, Bernie.
[18:32.240 --> 18:33.220]  Oh, Grace Hopper.
[18:33.380 --> 18:33.600]  Yeah.
[18:33.640 --> 18:34.620]  One of my favorite people.
[18:35.000 --> 18:35.240]  Okay.
[18:36.240 --> 18:40.660]  She's a woman who was enlisted in the U.S.
[18:40.760 --> 18:45.860]  Navy way a long time ago, probably back in the 20s or 30s or something.
[18:45.920 --> 18:48.680]  And she stayed there into her 80s.
[18:49.000 --> 18:51.320]  She just refused to step down.
[18:51.480 --> 18:55.020]  And what was unique about her is she was a computer scientist.
[18:55.440 --> 19:02.600]  And she developed a lot of computer science theories that were...
[19:02.600 --> 19:04.320]  I can't remember any off the top of the head.
[19:04.400 --> 19:11.560]  But there were breakthrough theories that were applied and used around the world.
[19:11.760 --> 19:20.960]  And one of her favorite things was to go around handing out pieces of wire that were roughly 14 inches long, I think, and saying, this is a nanosecond.
[19:22.060 --> 19:29.260]  Because it would take one nanosecond for an electron to travel from one end of the wire to the other.
[19:29.260 --> 19:38.060]  So that was her way of conveying to people a nanosecond, which is a unit of time that's frequently used in computer science.
[19:38.280 --> 19:41.440]  So she's just a great person in computer history.
[19:41.660 --> 19:48.660]  And like many of the other rooms at the Hope Conference, each will be named after someone of equal renown.
[19:50.120 --> 19:53.300]  What history period are we talking about with Grace Hopper?
[19:53.780 --> 19:55.180]  This was the 20th century.
[19:55.560 --> 19:55.760]  Okay.
[19:56.320 --> 20:03.940]  Now, our other track is named the Turing track, named after Alan Turing, who would like to talk about Alan Turing a little bit.
[20:03.980 --> 20:04.760]  I'll tell you about Alan Turing.
[20:04.760 --> 20:05.380]  Okay, Mike.
[20:05.540 --> 20:10.700]  We had a whole hour on him at the last conference, but I don't think we will this time, so we'll have to...
[20:10.700 --> 20:11.760]  We have a whole room for him now.
[20:11.760 --> 20:13.280]  We have a whole room, but not a whole hour.
[20:13.600 --> 20:21.080]  He was probably, arguably, the first computer scientist to have that title.
[20:21.200 --> 20:33.820]  He wrote a paper called On the Computable Numbers, where he basically invented these sort of imaginary machines, which would later become very related to real machines, computers.
[20:33.820 --> 20:47.920]  So after he did that, he then went and helped crack the Nazi codes so that the British, he was British, could read them and know what the Nazis were up to.
[20:48.460 --> 20:54.540]  And so then after he did that, he got convicted of homosexuality, which was a crime at the time.
[20:54.720 --> 20:55.780]  Got convicted of it.
[20:55.780 --> 20:55.980]  Yeah.
[20:56.540 --> 20:57.760]  It was a crime.
[20:57.760 --> 21:06.500]  So he got convicted and was forced to take estrogen treatment, which they somehow thought was helpful, and committed suicide.
[21:06.500 --> 21:10.280]  So after he did all these things, that's the reward he got.
[21:10.440 --> 21:11.500]  But now he gets a room.
[21:12.380 --> 21:17.180]  Well, it hardly makes up for that, but it's just our way of saluting one of the heroes.
[21:18.120 --> 21:19.420]  Okay, we have...
[21:19.420 --> 21:21.440]  I think anything else is going to pale by comparison.
[21:21.440 --> 21:25.220]  We have the third track being the Ingressia Room.
[21:25.360 --> 21:37.080]  And of course, that's named after High Rise Joe, Joe Ingressia, otherwise known as Joy Bubbles, phone freak extraordinaire, who unfortunately died recently and was known to many.
[21:37.160 --> 21:47.980]  He was a blind phone freak, was able to make out all sorts of touch tones and multi-frequency tones and things like that by ear, and just incredible skill, incredible enthusiasm.
[21:47.980 --> 21:55.220]  If you find the show that he was actually interviewed on, Off the Hook, you'll just see how incredibly in touch he was with everything going on in the phone network.
[21:55.280 --> 21:56.780]  And it really was an honor to speak with him.
[21:57.840 --> 21:59.220]  And yeah, there's...
[21:59.220 --> 22:01.180]  He was in the news fairly recently, too.
[22:01.400 --> 22:06.360]  There was some revelation that he was being wiretapped, I believe.
[22:06.820 --> 22:07.140]  Yeah.
[22:07.140 --> 22:10.800]  So that appeared on Slashdot and all sorts of other places.
[22:12.220 --> 22:13.680]  And Ingressia is the third track.
[22:13.820 --> 22:16.680]  And the fourth track, the fourth track being the unscheduled track.
[22:16.760 --> 22:32.260]  What that means is if you were too late, if you didn't get your talk approved in time, and you're not on the schedule of 100 talks that we have, well, you can still address a crowd of people in the unscheduled room simply by signing up when you come to the conference.
[22:32.480 --> 22:35.140]  Just sign up for a talk, and it's first come, first served.
[22:35.660 --> 22:38.740]  And that room, that room is called the...
[22:38.740 --> 22:39.720]  Am I pronouncing this right?
[22:39.840 --> 22:40.140]  Zuse.
[22:40.600 --> 22:40.960]  Zuse.
[22:41.140 --> 22:42.140]  Okay, you guys fight it out.
[22:42.220 --> 22:42.840]  Which is it?
[22:43.240 --> 22:43.600]  Zuse.
[22:44.060 --> 22:45.840]  I wanted to say Zeus, but I can't say...
[22:45.840 --> 22:46.120]  No, no, no.
[22:46.440 --> 22:47.000]  Conrad Zuse.
[22:47.120 --> 22:47.460]  Not Zeus.
[22:47.660 --> 22:48.560]  But wouldn't Zeus be cool?
[22:48.600 --> 22:49.300]  Z-U-S-E.
[22:49.440 --> 22:49.940]  Z-U-S-E.
[22:50.260 --> 22:52.340]  Conrad Zuse, he supposedly invented the first computer?
[22:53.420 --> 22:57.020]  He invented a device that could very well be counted as the first computer.
[22:57.020 --> 23:05.680]  Well, they say his greatest achievement was the world's first functional program-controlled Turing-Complete computer called the Z3 in 1941.
[23:06.020 --> 23:07.680]  And I challenge you to beat that.
[23:08.420 --> 23:11.320]  The program was stored on a punched tape.
[23:12.780 --> 23:13.300]  Zuse?
[23:13.720 --> 23:14.200]  Zuse?
[23:14.460 --> 23:14.900]  Zuse?
[23:15.160 --> 23:15.520]  Zuse.
[23:15.740 --> 23:16.020]  Okay.
[23:16.340 --> 23:18.360]  Well, you're looking at Wikipedia, so...
[23:18.360 --> 23:18.740]  Of course!
[23:18.740 --> 23:19.620]  What else am I going to look at?
[23:19.800 --> 23:23.340]  He also designed the first high-level programming language called...
[23:23.340 --> 23:23.820]  Oh, my God.
[23:24.440 --> 23:24.960]  Plank...
[23:24.960 --> 23:25.900]  Plankalcul?
[23:27.140 --> 23:27.500]  Plankalcul?
[23:27.500 --> 23:27.580]  Plankalcul?
[23:27.800 --> 23:28.660]  Why did he name it that?
[23:28.800 --> 23:36.340]  First published in 1948, although this was a theoretical contribution since the language was not implemented in his lifetime and did not directly influence early languages.
[23:36.880 --> 23:38.860]  He was one of the inventors of Algol.
[23:39.000 --> 23:40.220]  Actually, no, he's not one of the inventors.
[23:40.800 --> 23:49.380]  One of the inventors wrote the very first attempt to devise an algorithmic language was undertaken in 1948 by Conrad Zuse.
[23:49.820 --> 23:51.440]  No one's going to pronounce it right when they're going there.
[23:51.480 --> 23:54.200]  They're all going to say Zeus, so we might as well just, you know, say Zeus now.
[23:54.200 --> 23:55.880]  It's not spelled by the Greek god.
[23:56.100 --> 23:57.040]  Z-U-S-E.
[23:57.300 --> 23:57.840]  Zeus, yeah.
[23:58.100 --> 24:00.160]  I know, but I'd pronounce it Zeus if it was in English.
[24:00.320 --> 24:01.000]  It's not in English.
[24:01.040 --> 24:01.500]  He's German.
[24:01.640 --> 24:02.220]  Did we say that?
[24:02.360 --> 24:05.600]  Yeah, but you don't pronounce every German word as if it was in German.
[24:06.660 --> 24:07.780]  You anglicize things.
[24:07.780 --> 24:07.860]  Yes.
[24:08.620 --> 24:09.480]  That's what you do.
[24:09.660 --> 24:10.360]  Yes, go ahead, Bernie.
[24:10.960 --> 24:24.720]  Could we perhaps print it both in the HOPE program and on the door of the Zeus room, or however it's pronounced, printed using the correct phonetic symbols, so our attendees would be able to know how to pronounce the name?
[24:24.840 --> 24:33.580]  Well, I know it's too late for the program because the program's all finalized, but we can certainly make up signage to put in various places at the conference.
[24:33.580 --> 24:41.200]  Or we could have volunteers go through each printed program and handwrite the phonetic symbols around the name.
[24:41.320 --> 24:43.120]  And you will be in charge of those volunteers.
[24:43.580 --> 24:44.020]  Okay.
[24:44.420 --> 24:47.500]  Okay, let's take a look at some of our listener mail.
[24:48.160 --> 24:51.620]  Again, our email address is othat2600.com.
[24:51.720 --> 24:53.500]  We always love to hear from our listeners.
[24:53.700 --> 24:57.860]  And you can call us live, 212-209-2900.
[24:57.860 --> 25:02.920]  Speak to the whole cast of characters here at the radio station and on the phone.
[25:05.080 --> 25:10.020]  Photon Rain writes in, After countless years of begging my wife to come to Hope, I am now going.
[25:10.020 --> 25:10.840]  I will see you there.
[25:10.840 --> 25:11.400]  I can't wait.
[25:11.540 --> 25:12.560]  Listening live right now.
[25:12.640 --> 25:13.260]  Have a great night.
[25:13.640 --> 25:16.120]  He just gets more and more enthusiastic as the letter goes on.
[25:16.440 --> 25:17.900]  Is it like full of exclamation marks?
[25:17.900 --> 25:19.140]  It just keeps getting bigger and bigger.
[25:19.220 --> 25:19.340]  Yes.
[25:19.760 --> 25:24.700]  And I think this sort of sums up the enthusiastic level of enthusiasm.
[25:25.000 --> 25:25.940]  Yes, it's out there.
[25:26.360 --> 25:28.280]  It's a very enthusiastic level of enthusiasm.
[25:29.000 --> 25:32.080]  And people from all over the world are coming to this thing.
[25:32.080 --> 25:34.520]  I was looking over some of the pre-registrations earlier.
[25:35.040 --> 25:43.640]  And I think we have more now, more pre-registrations for the conference than at any other point in any of the previous six conferences we've done.
[25:43.740 --> 25:44.820]  So that's really cool.
[25:44.880 --> 25:45.560]  That's really good to know.
[25:45.980 --> 25:48.040]  It's indicative of even more people showing up.
[25:48.080 --> 25:49.320]  And they're from all over the world.
[25:49.320 --> 25:52.100]  And that's especially what we like to see.
[25:52.180 --> 25:54.500]  We like to see people showing up from all different corners.
[25:54.700 --> 25:57.320]  Now, as we might have mentioned, the hotel is sold out.
[25:57.580 --> 25:58.920]  You won't be able to find a room there.
[26:00.100 --> 26:02.840]  And a lot of the surrounding areas are sold out.
[26:02.900 --> 26:09.220]  I think we still have some special deals left, though, with hotels very close by, a few blocks away.
[26:09.220 --> 26:19.020]  If you go to www.hope.net and click on the travel section, you should be able to find your way to the part that lists some of these alternatives.
[26:19.020 --> 26:19.580]  Right, Mike?
[26:20.160 --> 26:20.320]  Yeah.
[26:20.320 --> 26:22.400]  So they're still out there.
[26:22.480 --> 26:23.660]  You just have to look around a little bit.
[26:23.800 --> 26:24.140]  Thank you.
[26:24.140 --> 26:25.000]  So there's no need to fret.
[26:25.100 --> 26:25.580]  Yes, go ahead, Bernie.
[26:26.000 --> 26:43.080]  Is there a forum on the Hope.net website where hopeful attendees, no pun intended, to the Hope Conference could share information about lodging and sharing rooms, that sort of thing?
[26:43.100 --> 26:43.540]  Most definitely.
[26:43.720 --> 26:45.320]  We have a Hope forum.
[26:45.320 --> 26:48.080]  It's available at talk.hope.net.
[26:48.580 --> 26:54.640]  And on that forum, you will find discussions on where to stay, how to get there, rides, things like that.
[26:55.040 --> 26:57.260]  And just ask away.
[26:57.440 --> 27:00.220]  Ask your questions and somebody will answer you and help you out.
[27:00.220 --> 27:01.100]  There are going to be rides?
[27:01.300 --> 27:02.040]  There can be.
[27:02.780 --> 27:03.660]  Carpooling, whatever.
[27:04.000 --> 27:05.480]  Good airfares.
[27:05.820 --> 27:10.480]  All sorts of things are possible if you put your mind to it and if you share information.
[27:10.820 --> 27:11.840]  That's the hacker way.
[27:12.360 --> 27:12.800]  All right.
[27:12.800 --> 27:18.440]  So talk.hope.net and www.hope.net for all sorts of other information as well.
[27:18.700 --> 27:24.160]  And, oh, I should also point out that preregistration for the conference ends next Sunday.
[27:24.500 --> 27:26.060]  In other words, you can't...
[27:26.060 --> 27:27.460]  This Sunday, the 6th?
[27:27.520 --> 27:27.800]  Yes.
[27:27.940 --> 27:33.460]  In fact, you cannot preregister now if you're overseas because you won't get the ticket in time, most likely.
[27:33.640 --> 27:34.700]  We don't want to take that risk.
[27:35.060 --> 27:36.100]  Is Canada overseas?
[27:36.460 --> 27:37.240]  Good question.
[27:37.460 --> 27:40.320]  You know, their mail has gotten pretty bad, so you might want to...
[27:40.320 --> 27:41.000]  No, they're connected.
[27:41.000 --> 27:42.880]  They're on the same continent that's not overseas.
[27:42.880 --> 27:43.000]  There's no sea.
[27:43.440 --> 27:46.880]  Yeah, but then again, Mexico is and so is Argentina by that stretch.
[27:47.240 --> 27:47.440]  Yeah.
[27:47.640 --> 27:48.300]  Well, I don't know.
[27:48.340 --> 27:50.680]  So you're saying overseas, but they're not overseas.
[27:50.700 --> 27:51.260]  I'd say play it safe.
[27:51.420 --> 27:54.200]  I mean, if you have a lot of faith in the mail, then okay, go ahead.
[27:54.200 --> 27:59.880]  But if you're kind of weary, if you've had a lot of delays, keep in mind when the conference is, keep in mind when you're traveling.
[28:00.420 --> 28:01.960]  In the United States, you're safe.
[28:02.140 --> 28:04.140]  So, by all means, pre-register before Sunday.
[28:04.140 --> 28:10.200]  Well, there was a guy who was on a hiking trail on the Appalachian Trail headed to Hope, and he won't be home before the conference.
[28:10.200 --> 28:11.760]  So, did he coordinate with you?
[28:11.940 --> 28:13.420]  How did you coordinate with him?
[28:13.520 --> 28:14.660]  Well, he was on the forum.
[28:15.200 --> 28:17.600]  He's on the forum, but he's on the Appalachian Trail.
[28:17.740 --> 28:18.000]  Right.
[28:19.580 --> 28:21.060]  Probably shouldn't be using the U.S.
[28:21.180 --> 28:21.380]  mail.
[28:21.600 --> 28:22.840]  He's walking to Hope, yeah.
[28:23.180 --> 28:24.040]  Walking to Hope.
[28:24.540 --> 28:25.080]  Oh, boy.
[28:25.720 --> 28:28.860]  Okay, well, you know, probably shouldn't pre-register.
[28:29.020 --> 28:29.720]  I don't think...
[28:29.720 --> 28:31.300]  Well, I think he did, and...
[28:31.300 --> 28:32.300]  Well, where's he going to pick it up?
[28:32.380 --> 28:32.880]  Where's it going to go?
[28:32.960 --> 28:34.200]  To a tree or something?
[28:34.240 --> 28:35.840]  Well, I told him to email you.
[28:36.420 --> 28:36.740]  Thanks.
[28:37.040 --> 28:38.420]  I look forward to those kinds of emails.
[28:39.100 --> 28:42.720]  Okay, let's continue with more listener feedback.
[28:42.980 --> 28:44.440]  People will do anything to get to Hope.
[28:44.660 --> 28:46.140]  People will do anything to get to me, that's for sure.
[28:47.040 --> 28:48.620]  Guys, I thought Verizon was stupid.
[28:49.200 --> 28:49.640]  They are.
[28:49.700 --> 28:50.740]  Well, that's fair statement.
[28:50.740 --> 28:50.960]  They are, yeah.
[28:51.000 --> 28:51.720]  I think we all agree with that.
[28:51.720 --> 28:57.600]  I just went to Con Ed's website to change the account used for automatic bill payment.
[28:57.820 --> 28:59.300]  All I had to do...
[28:59.300 --> 29:04.000]  And this is not considered advice or instructions on how to commit a crime, but it's a fact.
[29:04.480 --> 29:07.720]  All I had to do was enter the account number from my bill.
[29:08.120 --> 29:09.600]  No authentication of any type.
[29:09.740 --> 29:11.260]  It displays your name and address.
[29:11.580 --> 29:16.500]  One can view usage history, close the account, change billing options, all sorts of things.
[29:17.000 --> 29:19.460]  I vaguely recall you may have talked about this years ago.
[29:19.620 --> 29:20.820]  Perhaps I'm remembering something else.
[29:20.820 --> 29:23.220]  Either way, this is sad, very sad.
[29:23.640 --> 29:24.340]  Signed, Dan.
[29:24.780 --> 29:29.120]  Well, I guess the question to ask, Dan, is how hard is it to get an account number?
[29:29.420 --> 29:32.340]  I'm sort of amazed he was able to get Con Ed's website to do anything.
[29:33.760 --> 29:36.540]  Well, you can count on it doing something bad if you did get it to do something.
[29:36.680 --> 29:39.700]  But, I mean, are account numbers secret information?
[29:39.700 --> 29:41.280]  Or is that something that you can pretty much figure out?
[29:41.740 --> 29:42.740]  They're really long.
[29:42.960 --> 29:43.480]  They are long.
[29:43.640 --> 29:48.160]  So maybe that's the security right there, the fact that they're a long number and nobody else could possibly see them.
[29:48.160 --> 29:50.420]  Do you see them in the envelope when they send you a bill?
[29:50.700 --> 29:51.020]  No.
[29:51.220 --> 29:51.940]  They don't show through there.
[29:52.880 --> 29:54.500]  I mean, you could steal someone's mail.
[29:54.740 --> 29:55.620]  You could steal someone's mail.
[29:55.840 --> 29:56.600]  You could steal someone's trash.
[29:56.940 --> 29:58.120]  Could you guess an account number?
[29:58.420 --> 29:59.140]  I don't think so.
[29:59.320 --> 29:59.860]  A randomizer?
[30:00.520 --> 30:00.840]  Okay.
[30:00.980 --> 30:04.960]  Well, perhaps you could social engineer it out of Con Ed.
[30:05.120 --> 30:06.000]  Say, here's my name.
[30:06.000 --> 30:06.580]  Here's my address.
[30:06.700 --> 30:07.780]  I forgot my account number.
[30:07.860 --> 30:08.360]  Can you help me?
[30:08.980 --> 30:09.300]  Probably.
[30:09.440 --> 30:09.860]  That would work.
[30:09.980 --> 30:10.140]  All right.
[30:10.180 --> 30:10.780]  Why don't we try that?
[30:10.840 --> 30:11.700]  Well, we're not going to try that ourselves.
[30:11.720 --> 30:13.880]  But I'm saying as an exercise for the listeners.
[30:14.040 --> 30:17.200]  Why don't you try that and see if you can get your account number.
[30:17.320 --> 30:18.020]  Do it all legally.
[30:18.320 --> 30:22.560]  Hold up your bill and just read off the information except for the account number and see if you can get that from them.
[30:22.680 --> 30:28.040]  If you can get that from them, then anyone else can get it from them and then they can turn off your electricity or send your bill someplace else.
[30:28.840 --> 30:29.880]  Fun for the whole family.
[30:30.400 --> 30:30.740]  Okay.
[30:31.080 --> 30:31.760]  More mail.
[30:32.100 --> 30:37.400]  I was listening to a local radio station in Kansas City, the one in Missouri, since there are two, as you stated in the fun drive.
[30:37.960 --> 30:41.280]  And this commercial came on talking about ID theft.
[30:42.060 --> 30:50.120]  Another guy came on and gave out what he stated as his social security number and then said, I'm not afraid to give it out because I'm that protected.
[30:50.820 --> 30:54.840]  Now, who knows if it was really his social security number or not, but that's just a very stupid claim.
[30:54.840 --> 30:58.100]  No one is ever 100% secure with a service like that.
[30:58.300 --> 31:00.920]  And the site was LifeLock.com.
[31:01.120 --> 31:02.940]  This is from Mike in Kansas City.
[31:03.020 --> 31:03.380]  Not Kevin?
[31:03.640 --> 31:08.020]  A story just came out about the guy who runs LifeLock and his identity was stolen.
[31:08.520 --> 31:08.880]  Really?
[31:09.060 --> 31:09.380]  Twice.
[31:09.640 --> 31:09.820]  Wow.
[31:10.260 --> 31:11.180]  How about that?
[31:11.800 --> 31:14.480]  When you say his identity was stolen, was it stolen?
[31:14.500 --> 31:17.600]  Did somebody just try to use his social security number because he gave it out?
[31:18.200 --> 31:19.060]  No, it was stolen.
[31:19.380 --> 31:19.640]  Uh-huh.
[31:20.620 --> 31:21.060]  Okay.
[31:21.240 --> 31:22.000]  What does that mean?
[31:22.160 --> 31:22.340]  Yeah.
[31:22.440 --> 31:23.340]  What exactly does that mean?
[31:23.340 --> 31:27.080]  I believe things were ordered, credit cards were used, things like that.
[31:27.280 --> 31:27.460]  Uh-huh.
[31:28.500 --> 31:29.780]  That's ID theft?
[31:29.940 --> 31:31.880]  Just ordering something under someone else's name?
[31:31.940 --> 31:33.100]  Because you're not becoming that person.
[31:33.220 --> 31:35.660]  You're just using their name fraudulently for one thing.
[31:35.940 --> 31:37.100]  That's still becoming them.
[31:37.200 --> 31:38.680]  I guess, but not really.
[31:38.680 --> 31:49.880]  I mean, I consider ID theft the whole shebang where you have a license in their name and you start committing crimes that they get blamed for and fathering kids that they have to support, things like that.
[31:49.980 --> 31:50.880]  That's ID theft.
[31:51.180 --> 31:55.880]  Just ordering something on a credit card with a fake name, that's just, you know, a one-shot deal.
[31:56.040 --> 31:56.540]  I don't know.
[31:56.540 --> 32:00.660]  I think ID theft is used a little bit too much as a catch-all phrase.
[32:01.360 --> 32:01.960]  Go ahead, Rob.
[32:02.540 --> 32:03.640]  What if it's not theft though?
[32:03.760 --> 32:07.560]  There was recently a story in the news about somebody who put his life on, I believe it was eBay.
[32:08.800 --> 32:09.860]  Put his life on eBay?
[32:10.000 --> 32:11.180]  Yeah, I think it was an Australian guy.
[32:11.180 --> 32:11.460]  Yeah.
[32:11.680 --> 32:12.000]  Uh-huh.
[32:12.240 --> 32:23.460]  Yeah, he basically, if he won the auction, he would walk out of his house, he would introduce you to all his friends, he would set you up in a training position at his job, and apparently that counts as his life.
[32:24.120 --> 32:25.240]  Well, now, what were you supposed to do?
[32:25.280 --> 32:26.080]  Show up for work then?
[32:26.780 --> 32:27.360]  I suppose.
[32:27.620 --> 32:31.520]  They had some kind of deal where they would start training you in his job in case it worked out.
[32:31.760 --> 32:35.740]  But basically, he was walking out of his house with, I think, a passport and a wallet, and that was it.
[32:35.980 --> 32:40.220]  And everything else in the house, all his possessions, and everything would be yours.
[32:41.240 --> 32:43.460]  And what exactly would he do at that point?
[32:43.940 --> 32:49.280]  I think he would just go off and start over somewhere, but in a spectacular way.
[32:49.320 --> 32:50.920]  Was there a minimum bid for the auction?
[32:51.720 --> 32:52.540]  I don't know.
[32:52.660 --> 32:53.800]  And is this auction still going on?
[32:54.720 --> 32:56.020]  Has the reserve been met?
[32:56.360 --> 32:56.740]  Yeah, yeah.
[32:57.020 --> 32:58.240]  Yeah, it's done.
[32:58.560 --> 32:59.420]  And what was it worth?
[32:59.420 --> 33:01.940]  It was worth several hundred thousand dollars.
[33:02.160 --> 33:02.280]  Whoa!
[33:02.600 --> 33:03.000]  Really?
[33:03.320 --> 33:04.900]  Well, it comes with a house.
[33:05.480 --> 33:06.100]  Oh, I guess.
[33:06.160 --> 33:06.360]  All right.
[33:06.360 --> 33:07.060]  What was the job?
[33:07.300 --> 33:07.960]  I don't know.
[33:07.960 --> 33:07.980]  I don't know.
[33:08.920 --> 33:09.440]  Wow.
[33:09.600 --> 33:09.900]  Interesting.
[33:10.360 --> 33:12.260]  Bernie, have any thoughts on that LifeLock thing?
[33:13.240 --> 33:13.500]  Yeah.
[33:13.680 --> 33:25.260]  I mean, this guy's been advertising what I think is a bogus service for quite a while, and he's really heavily advertising, guaranteeing that no one will steal your identity, which is really impossible.
[33:25.260 --> 33:33.580]  I think it's basically an insurance thing, saying if someone steals it, he will make good on your expenses.
[33:33.900 --> 33:36.140]  But the service is not cheap.
[33:36.140 --> 33:39.480]  I think it's, well, I think it's a better part of a hundred dollars.
[33:40.180 --> 33:51.260]  I don't know if that's a year or for what period it's for, but it's not inexpensive, and it's not necessary when you can take more appropriate safeguards on your own.
[33:51.260 --> 33:53.400]  Are you rounding those curves awfully fast, Bernie?
[33:54.360 --> 33:55.420]  Slow down a little bit, huh?
[33:56.280 --> 34:01.760]  People should shred their trash with one of those confetti shredders, not the ones that make it into strips.
[34:02.620 --> 34:11.920]  They should avoid giving their credit card to servers at restaurants and places like that, because that's much more commonly...
[34:11.920 --> 34:18.140]  It's a much more common vector for having your identities or your credit card information stolen than online.
[34:19.260 --> 34:20.180]  Things like that.
[34:20.260 --> 34:21.100]  Just use common sense.
[34:21.340 --> 34:22.560]  Yeah, but Bernie, think about this.
[34:22.640 --> 34:34.000]  If you pay this company, whatever it is they're asking, you can walk around literally with a sandwich board on you with your driver's license, your birth certificate, all kinds of information, your credit card numbers, everything.
[34:34.160 --> 34:42.880]  Just walk around, have the time of your life, just put your Facebook account, have every single possible detail you can think of, and they have to pay for it.
[34:43.160 --> 34:47.100]  I think Steve Rambam should be asked about this guy at the HOPE conference.
[34:47.240 --> 34:48.620]  I'm sure he'll have some interesting opinions.
[34:48.780 --> 34:53.360]  I think he's going to wheel him out as exhibit A as to what not to do or something.
[34:53.540 --> 34:54.780]  But yeah, it's a good question.
[34:54.900 --> 34:57.080]  It's something that I'm sure we'll be focusing on quite a bit.
[34:57.080 --> 34:59.780]  So, okay, continuing with more mail.
[34:59.920 --> 35:02.480]  And again, our phone number, 212-209-2900.
[35:02.680 --> 35:04.220]  We'll take phone calls in just about five minutes or so.
[35:04.680 --> 35:07.200]  I was listening to Off the Hook this morning on my way to work.
[35:07.380 --> 35:08.940]  And yes, you too can do this.
[35:09.100 --> 35:13.660]  You can listen to it on your way to work or school or the penitentiary or wherever it is you're on your way to.
[35:13.760 --> 35:16.460]  It works better if you go to work at 7pm, but...
[35:16.460 --> 35:25.820]  Well, yeah, but I'm just saying you can do it anytime you want if you record it and download it to your various devices, MP3 players of sorts.
[35:25.820 --> 35:27.280]  Some people go jogging.
[35:27.440 --> 35:32.260]  Some people fly commercial airlines and they're listening to us in the headphones while they're doing that.
[35:33.300 --> 35:36.700]  Basically, anything where you can listen to something, you can listen to us.
[35:37.160 --> 35:40.780]  It's good when you listen to us live because then you can call in and hear yourself.
[35:40.780 --> 35:45.920]  But yeah, people do listen to us at all hours, all types of days and nights.
[35:46.040 --> 35:49.560]  And sometimes years later, we get mail from a show we did in the 1990s.
[35:49.640 --> 35:54.420]  We got mail asking what was the music we played on the outro in the year 2000 on some show.
[35:54.940 --> 35:55.300]  Yeah.
[35:55.500 --> 36:01.340]  And you know, I'd like to answer those questions, but it entails finding something and listening to it and remembering.
[36:01.560 --> 36:02.980]  And I'm not sure I can do all three of those things.
[36:02.980 --> 36:07.840]  Maybe there should be an off the hook wiki with all those details kind of filled in by the listeners.
[36:08.100 --> 36:08.520]  Yeah, listeners.
[36:08.840 --> 36:09.440]  Go ahead, listeners.
[36:09.660 --> 36:10.120]  Feel free.
[36:10.220 --> 36:10.680]  Have at it.
[36:11.360 --> 36:11.680]  All right.
[36:12.120 --> 36:14.420]  Anyway, I was listening to off the hook this morning on my way to work.
[36:14.420 --> 36:15.940]  Yes, we are going to get through this letter at some point.
[36:16.220 --> 36:20.320]  And heard you guys discussing going to Cuba, which we did.
[36:20.440 --> 36:21.460]  Mike and I did this a few years ago.
[36:21.580 --> 36:23.180]  We were just talking about it last...
[36:23.180 --> 36:24.260]  And I think it started a panic.
[36:24.360 --> 36:25.780]  People seem to think we're going to Cuba again.
[36:26.040 --> 36:29.340]  There are no plans to go to Cuba again, at least not that I'm aware of.
[36:29.340 --> 36:30.620]  I'd like to go to Cuba again.
[36:30.620 --> 36:33.400]  I'm not aware of any additional stories for us to cover.
[36:33.500 --> 36:34.360]  I wouldn't mind seeing it.
[36:34.480 --> 36:39.880]  We've seen it during Castro's reign, and now we could see it during Castro's reign and see what that's like, see if it's any different.
[36:40.380 --> 36:45.480]  And you could bring a whole load of cell phones with you, American cell phones with you, per the President's advisory.
[36:45.720 --> 36:47.800]  Yeah, a wheelbarrow full of cell phones.
[36:47.940 --> 36:51.620]  I'm sure the Cuban people will flock around you and be very happy to see those.
[36:51.780 --> 36:52.980]  And then realize they don't work.
[36:53.060 --> 36:53.260]  Yeah.
[36:54.100 --> 36:55.500]  But it will be a little bit of excitement.
[36:55.660 --> 36:57.020]  Anyway, let's get through this letter already.
[36:57.020 --> 37:00.900]  I want to let you know what I learned while traveling in Mexico.
[37:01.120 --> 37:06.400]  We were in the Cancun area, and I kept seeing signs advertising various travel packages.
[37:06.660 --> 37:10.120]  One of these packages was a three-night stay in Cuba for around $200 American.
[37:10.480 --> 37:14.480]  I was curious about any restrictions placed on Americans purchasing this package.
[37:14.620 --> 37:15.720]  It seems there are none.
[37:16.180 --> 37:25.880]  The agent told me that when you go to the airport to take the short flight over there, the Mexican customs agent gives you a form consisting of a piece of paper to put in your passport.
[37:25.880 --> 37:30.700]  Now, when you get to Cuba, the customs agent there will stamp this piece of paper instead of your passport.
[37:30.700 --> 37:33.720]  Unless, like I did, you ask them to stamp your passport.
[37:33.900 --> 37:37.420]  In which case, they'll be very happy and stamp your passport several different times.
[37:37.800 --> 37:42.720]  When you return to Mexico, the customs agent there will take this piece of paper and destroy it.
[37:43.360 --> 37:43.720]  Yeah.
[37:43.960 --> 37:45.280]  You can't spend...
[37:45.280 --> 37:46.080]  You find that funny?
[37:46.680 --> 37:50.140]  Destroying pieces of paper in customs offices?
[37:50.460 --> 37:50.800]  Yes.
[37:50.920 --> 37:51.200]  All right.
[37:51.320 --> 37:52.580]  Remind me to go over a border with you.
[37:52.740 --> 37:53.500]  Look at the trees, Kevin.
[37:53.640 --> 37:56.580]  You can't spend American dollars in Cuba, but all...
[37:56.580 --> 37:57.280]  Oh, but you can.
[37:57.720 --> 37:57.920]  You can.
[37:57.960 --> 37:58.360]  Actually, no.
[37:58.380 --> 37:59.260]  They don't take them anymore, do they?
[37:59.360 --> 38:04.380]  Well, they take them, but they take an 8% or 10% or some outrageous surcharge.
[38:04.380 --> 38:05.820]  They prefer euros at this point.
[38:06.440 --> 38:07.980]  Or, as this guy says, pesos.
[38:08.260 --> 38:11.840]  All you have to do is change it to pesos, which you've probably already done before you go.
[38:12.260 --> 38:17.100]  I was a little skeptical, but after asking around, this has evidently been a rather common practice for some time.
[38:17.120 --> 38:22.200]  Since your passport was never stamped or scanned, when you return to the US, it only looks as though you've been to Mexico.
[38:22.480 --> 38:25.100]  I have yet to try this, but I will not rule it out for the future.
[38:25.220 --> 38:27.360]  Cuba sounds like a pretty interesting place to visit.
[38:27.500 --> 38:29.940]  And you signed your name with all sorts of numbers and capital letters and things.
[38:29.960 --> 38:32.560]  I can't read what that actually says, but thanks for the letter.
[38:32.560 --> 38:34.520]  There's a caveat, Emmanuel.
[38:34.680 --> 38:35.320]  What's the caveat?
[38:35.760 --> 38:46.100]  The caveat is, I have read of US citizens who have traveled to Cuba from Canada and from Mexico, just as was described.
[38:46.360 --> 38:56.360]  And on their return, there are FBI agents who will frequent the airport where people get off those flights.
[38:56.360 --> 39:09.540]  And they will social engineer the people disboarding the airplane in plain clothes, not identifying themselves as FBI agents, and ask them, like, how was that trip to Cuba?
[39:09.560 --> 39:19.540]  And if they say they went to Cuba and the FBI suspects they're an American citizen, they are arrested and fined approximately $10,000.
[39:20.120 --> 39:22.860]  They're arrested in Mexico or when they come back to the States?
[39:24.000 --> 39:24.860]  That's unclear.
[39:25.080 --> 39:30.960]  The FBI has arrested people in Canada and Mexico before because they seem to think that they have jurisdiction all over the world now.
[39:30.960 --> 39:44.680]  But in any case, wherever... you are at risk of prosecution and fines, even if you're in Mexico or Canada, when you get off a plane from Cuba.
[39:45.340 --> 39:51.720]  So, it would be best to not talk to anybody when you get off the plane, especially if they seem to chat you up and so forth.
[39:51.820 --> 39:55.440]  Just be aware of these plain-clothes FBI agents who have been known to do this.
[39:55.540 --> 40:01.960]  Well, there's also another part where you come back over the border to the United States and they ask you, what countries have you visited?
[40:02.180 --> 40:06.880]  And then, at that point, you have to tell a lie and not say Cuba.
[40:06.880 --> 40:09.440]  And just that alone is a crime.
[40:09.800 --> 40:17.220]  And you could also, if they have kept track in some way, if they got the flight itinerary or the passenger list from that flight, they can match.
[40:17.360 --> 40:19.580]  I'm not saying they would, but there is that chance.
[40:19.700 --> 40:21.120]  It's one of the interesting things about it.
[40:21.140 --> 40:25.260]  It's a civil violation to travel to Cuba and spend money there.
[40:25.360 --> 40:28.120]  But it's actually a crime to lie to the U.S.
[40:28.240 --> 40:30.440]  government about what countries you've been to.
[40:30.880 --> 40:35.580]  So, some of the lawyers advise, you know, not to do that.
[40:35.580 --> 40:38.520]  Would that be self-incrimination under the Fifth Amendment?
[40:39.380 --> 40:40.860]  No, because it's not a crime.
[40:41.780 --> 40:43.940]  If you're thinking of this, you could talk to a lawyer.
[40:44.080 --> 40:45.800]  The Center for Constitutional Rights has lawyers.
[40:45.800 --> 40:50.500]  Are you saying that when you come across the border, Bernie, you're going to say, I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that may incriminate me?
[40:50.540 --> 40:52.100]  Because that might raise their ire a little bit.
[40:52.140 --> 40:55.880]  If you're really curious, there's a lot of information online of mixed quality.
[40:56.160 --> 41:01.200]  The Center for Constitutional Rights has good quality information online or by telephone.
[41:03.140 --> 41:03.860]  But, yeah.
[41:05.080 --> 41:07.900]  So, how do you actually go to Cuba?
[41:08.280 --> 41:11.640]  Can you book flights to Cuba through American travel agencies?
[41:11.940 --> 41:12.640]  Oh, no, no.
[41:13.120 --> 41:14.040]  It's difficult.
[41:14.300 --> 41:15.380]  We went as journalists.
[41:15.700 --> 41:17.180]  So, that's the legal way of going.
[41:17.360 --> 41:26.780]  But even booking through Canada, if they think that you're an American, they won't do it, even though they're totally a Canadian airline or travel agency.
[41:26.780 --> 41:27.940]  So, it can be difficult.
[41:27.940 --> 41:30.620]  Or you can go this way, like this person suggested, through Mexico.
[41:30.620 --> 41:32.420]  So, do like Delta and U.S.
[41:32.460 --> 41:33.720]  Air fly there or...?
[41:33.720 --> 41:38.280]  The only airline that flies there is American Airlines from the United States.
[41:38.480 --> 41:41.780]  And that's simply one airplane that goes back and forth from Miami.
[41:42.080 --> 41:43.680]  And that's a special deal.
[41:43.840 --> 41:48.040]  It's not... I don't know how they get away with exactly going there and not being accused of spending money.
[41:48.140 --> 41:48.820]  It's a charter flight.
[41:48.820 --> 41:50.880]  It's not technically somehow...
[41:50.880 --> 41:52.580]  You can't book it from American.
[41:52.640 --> 41:55.160]  You have to book it through these licensed providers.
[41:55.400 --> 41:56.380]  There's a couple others.
[41:56.560 --> 41:56.990]  There's a...
[41:59.080 --> 42:00.500]  Gulf Stream or something.
[42:00.640 --> 42:02.980]  Well, the only real one that anyone else has ever heard of.
[42:03.160 --> 42:03.820]  Yeah, well...
[42:05.360 --> 42:06.120]  But it's...
[42:06.120 --> 42:09.580]  If you can figure it out, if you can figure out a way to do it, it's definitely worth it.
[42:09.580 --> 42:14.560]  If you think you're legally allowed to go, you could call Marasul, which is the company Emmanuel and I used.
[42:14.600 --> 42:15.440]  And they're really good.
[42:15.580 --> 42:17.900]  And they'll tell you if you're legally allowed to go.
[42:18.080 --> 42:19.700]  And if you are, then they'll help you.
[42:19.880 --> 42:24.060]  Or you could just make a mistake and wind up in Cuba by accident thinking that you were actually going to the Dominican Republic.
[42:24.240 --> 42:25.440]  People make that mistake all the time.
[42:25.620 --> 42:25.760]  Hmm.
[42:26.460 --> 42:26.820]  Okay.
[42:27.500 --> 42:29.560]  Here's an interesting question from a listener.
[42:30.280 --> 42:32.700]  I hope this isn't typical of the kinds of things that happen.
[42:32.700 --> 42:33.560]  It actually...
[42:33.560 --> 42:39.920]  It was sent to Off the Hook, but it concerns something that happened on Off the Wall, which is the other show that airs on Tuesday night.
[42:40.820 --> 42:42.200]  Dear all, just a quick question.
[42:42.320 --> 42:43.640]  I'm sure it might be different than the US.
[42:43.820 --> 42:46.800]  On Monday night, I was driving home from work listening to Off the Wall.
[42:46.900 --> 42:47.940]  See, he was doing that.
[42:48.060 --> 42:50.160]  Not when it was actually on the air, but some other time.
[42:50.920 --> 42:52.760]  Listening to Off the Wall on my MP3 player.
[42:53.080 --> 43:00.900]  When a van hit me from behind and sent me spinning across three lanes of the motorway, I came to rest in the fast lane, pointed the wrong way with a car coming towards me.
[43:03.260 --> 43:08.720]  I had a slight head wound, but that was all at the time that happened to me.
[43:08.900 --> 43:10.740]  Now, I know it was dumb, but I was in shock.
[43:10.960 --> 43:15.740]  And being somewhat dazed, I told the cop who attended the scene that I was listening to my MP3 player.
[43:15.740 --> 43:18.180]  It only plays music and only through the earphones.
[43:18.580 --> 43:22.640]  I'm really concerned that it will be used against me to say that I was not concentrating.
[43:22.780 --> 43:24.300]  Any words of wisdom would be appreciated.
[43:24.500 --> 43:26.160]  Signed, a European listener.
[43:27.080 --> 43:27.480]  Well...
[43:27.480 --> 43:28.920]  Don't use headphones when driving.
[43:28.920 --> 43:32.620]  Yeah, but you know, it's funny because isn't that how they tell you to use your cell phone?
[43:32.620 --> 43:33.660]  To put a headphone...
[43:33.660 --> 43:33.940]  It's only one.
[43:34.140 --> 43:34.400]  Uh-huh.
[43:34.400 --> 43:36.060]  So you can still hear the road through the other way.
[43:36.080 --> 43:36.660]  Well, isn't that...
[43:37.280 --> 43:38.660]  An earphone is only one, isn't it?
[43:38.760 --> 43:39.920]  Oh, she's only using one.
[43:40.040 --> 43:41.280]  I would imagine he was only using one.
[43:41.380 --> 43:46.520]  But, of course, to get the full stereophonic sound benefit of the radio shows, you really should listen to both ears.
[43:47.060 --> 43:48.780]  But I'm not saying people should do that while they drive.
[43:48.860 --> 43:49.520]  That would be kind of dumb.
[43:50.680 --> 43:51.760]  You know, it's...
[43:52.180 --> 43:55.280]  People use these wireless devices all the time for various things.
[43:55.400 --> 44:00.480]  So I don't know if that alone is reason to get you in trouble.
[44:01.120 --> 44:02.760]  But the question is, were you paying attention?
[44:02.960 --> 44:08.340]  Or were you so engrossed in what was happening on the radio that you took your eyes off the road or were not paying attention?
[44:08.680 --> 44:09.080]  People...
[44:09.080 --> 44:10.780]  These radio shows can be dangerous.
[44:11.000 --> 44:13.240]  They can get you into trouble in so many different ways.
[44:13.360 --> 44:14.840]  It's another reason to take public transit.
[44:14.840 --> 44:16.580]  That you can put headphones in both ears.
[44:16.700 --> 44:17.120]  No problem.
[44:17.280 --> 44:17.660]  Well, yeah.
[44:17.880 --> 44:18.160]  Absolutely.
[44:18.800 --> 44:20.380]  There are also different kinds of headphones.
[44:20.580 --> 44:23.280]  There are open-air types that let you hear what's going on around you.
[44:23.440 --> 44:28.480]  And then there are the ones that are shoved like three or four or five inches into your head.
[44:30.200 --> 44:31.020]  The hypodermic ones.
[44:31.020 --> 44:31.320]  Yeah.
[44:31.380 --> 44:33.540]  So you can't hear much else and don't care about much else.
[44:33.620 --> 44:34.320]  I have those.
[44:34.460 --> 44:34.900]  They're really good.
[44:35.000 --> 44:35.220]  Yes.
[44:35.460 --> 44:35.820]  Okay.
[44:35.980 --> 44:36.860]  Well, yes.
[44:36.980 --> 44:38.760]  People, please drive carefully if you're listening to us.
[44:38.780 --> 44:41.560]  If we say something particularly shocking or upsetting, try not to view off the road.
[44:41.600 --> 44:42.600]  I know that's been an issue, too.
[44:43.800 --> 44:44.200]  Okay.
[44:44.540 --> 44:45.460]  And one other letter.
[44:45.560 --> 44:46.260]  And then we're going to take phone calls.
[44:46.320 --> 44:47.740]  212-209-2900.
[44:48.000 --> 44:52.440]  This is something actually that was mentioned two weeks ago, but not on the air.
[44:52.540 --> 44:53.940]  It was mentioned as we were getting off the air.
[44:54.100 --> 44:56.020]  And then we forgot to mention it last week.
[44:56.020 --> 44:58.420]  And this is like the biggest story that we have not covered.
[44:58.860 --> 45:00.240]  And I'm talking about...
[45:00.240 --> 45:05.540]  And this person wrote in to say that Alt.2600 is no longer available through Verizon.
[45:06.160 --> 45:06.840]  Okay, folks.
[45:06.940 --> 45:07.640]  What's going on here?
[45:07.640 --> 45:16.080]  I keep hearing this from everybody that all the alt news groups on Usenet are simply not accessible by Verizon and somehow this has been allowed to stand.
[45:16.680 --> 45:17.820]  Anybody know about this?
[45:17.940 --> 45:20.360]  I mean, you all said you knew about it after the shows, but...
[45:20.360 --> 45:21.500]  People still use Usenet?
[45:21.600 --> 45:22.660]  Well, some people do.
[45:22.660 --> 45:23.120]  I know.
[45:23.260 --> 45:26.700]  It's become like a spam haven and all kinds of other nasty things.
[45:26.700 --> 45:28.080]  But yeah, it does exist.
[45:28.680 --> 45:34.460]  Well, I think what happened is that Verizon just shut down that on their own Usenet server.
[45:35.000 --> 45:38.540]  And you can still go to other Usenet servers and pull up the alt groups.
[45:38.720 --> 45:46.820]  But most ISPs only allow people on their own system to access their news group systems because it's such a taxing resource.
[45:47.020 --> 45:47.300]  Red hacked.
[45:47.820 --> 45:50.320]  So if they use Google, would they be able to get on it then?
[45:50.440 --> 45:51.980]  They should be able to get through Google, yeah.
[45:52.400 --> 45:54.080]  Even if they're connected through Verizon.
[45:54.300 --> 45:55.520]  Though that makes it hard to post.
[45:55.520 --> 45:58.440]  No, you can post easily through Google groups, right?
[45:58.760 --> 45:59.120]  I think it's pretty simple.
[45:59.120 --> 45:59.340]  Oh, yeah, yeah.
[45:59.340 --> 45:59.800]  That's right.
[46:01.100 --> 46:02.620]  If that makes it...
[46:02.620 --> 46:04.400]  If that's a workaround, then fine.
[46:04.560 --> 46:12.280]  But from what I'm understanding, the way it sounds is like certain things are just being discontinued because they're not official or something like that.
[46:12.360 --> 46:19.300]  And I haven't looked at Alt.2600 in years because it's become all kinds of, you know, a haven for spam just like every other news group.
[46:19.340 --> 46:21.480]  But I don't like this way of dealing with it.
[46:21.480 --> 46:29.100]  No, I believe they were shut down because all the New York ISPs were put in charge of censoring child pornography on the web.
[46:29.580 --> 46:35.840]  So they found a hundred, you know, illegal sites or illegal use net groups out of 10,000.
[46:35.960 --> 46:38.200]  So they decided to shut access to all of them.
[46:38.400 --> 46:38.620]  Yeah.
[46:38.700 --> 46:46.580]  But I mean, the comp.hierarchy or the rec.hierarchy had just the same amount of problems and bad posts that the Alt hierarchy did.
[46:46.580 --> 46:50.660]  Well, that's what they figured would be the best thing, so they shut it all down.
[46:51.320 --> 46:51.540]  Okay.
[46:51.620 --> 46:53.640]  Well, we'd like to hear from our listeners on this and other issues, of course.
[46:53.800 --> 46:56.180]  Our email address, OTH at 2600.com.
[46:56.520 --> 46:57.700]  Shall we go to the phones?
[46:58.320 --> 46:58.600]  No.
[46:59.480 --> 47:00.320]  No, you want to go to the phones?
[47:00.480 --> 47:01.360]  All these people are calling in.
[47:01.440 --> 47:02.180]  Look how many people there are.
[47:02.240 --> 47:03.060]  They're all waiting patiently.
[47:03.180 --> 47:04.580]  Oh, there's lots of blinking lights.
[47:04.760 --> 47:04.960]  All right.
[47:05.080 --> 47:06.460]  212, 209, 2900.
[47:06.540 --> 47:07.260]  Did you just push that button?
[47:07.400 --> 47:07.520]  Yeah.
[47:07.620 --> 47:08.100]  Okay, good evening.
[47:08.200 --> 47:09.100]  You're on off the hook.
[47:09.260 --> 47:11.940]  Yeah, I have an issue about the ID theft.
[47:12.260 --> 47:13.160]  No, no, no, let him talk.
[47:13.260 --> 47:13.640]  Let him talk.
[47:13.640 --> 47:14.860]  All right, the ID theft?
[47:14.880 --> 47:15.840]  Here's the deal, Rebel.
[47:16.120 --> 47:24.680]  On the first Tuesday, the first Wednesday of every month, we're going to give you a forum to say what's on your mind.
[47:26.020 --> 47:27.760]  So, first Wednesday.
[47:28.060 --> 47:28.180]  All right?
[47:28.260 --> 47:29.420]  We're going to try this as a test.
[47:29.600 --> 47:31.680]  I like the proposal for the first Tuesday better.
[47:33.200 --> 47:35.120]  He's getting a show on Radio Statler.
[47:35.300 --> 47:35.860]  Well, okay.
[47:35.920 --> 47:37.040]  You can tell us about that in a minute.
[47:37.180 --> 47:40.300]  But Rebel, I just want to give you the opportunity to say what's on your mind now.
[47:40.920 --> 47:41.320]  Quickly.
[47:41.900 --> 47:42.480]  Very quickly.
[47:42.480 --> 47:49.620]  I've been getting a lot of junk mail-like calls that have recordings, lower your credit card rating, and it's all recording.
[47:49.800 --> 47:51.440]  I changed my phone number.
[47:51.460 --> 47:51.880]  Mm-hmm.
[47:51.980 --> 47:52.780]  That wasn't the reason.
[47:52.840 --> 47:54.220]  I changed my phone number for another reason.
[47:54.240 --> 47:54.940]  I'm sure you did.
[47:55.980 --> 47:58.940]  But my phone number, my name is listed.
[47:58.940 --> 48:13.400]  So what they had the nerve to do is, being that their recordings and their machines could not call me because they get maybe a recording saying it's disconnected or whatever, they looked up my name and number and now they call me on the new phone number.
[48:13.820 --> 48:14.820]  How about that?
[48:14.960 --> 48:15.120]  Boy.
[48:15.340 --> 48:16.780]  Now, about the ID tab.
[48:16.880 --> 48:24.620]  Did you hear the New York Stock Exchange lost listings of, you know, visitors have to give their social security numbers now and they lost that listing?
[48:25.380 --> 48:25.660]  .
[48:25.660 --> 48:26.780]  So now they don't know who anybody is?
[48:27.160 --> 48:27.580]  No, no.
[48:27.580 --> 48:29.280]  It's not that they don't know who anybody is.
[48:29.440 --> 48:33.940]  When you visit the Stock Exchange, you have to give them not only a license and...
[48:33.940 --> 48:34.840]  I mean, this is what I heard on a business- .
[48:34.840 --> 48:35.880]  You visit the Stock Exchange?
[48:36.040 --> 48:36.320]  No, no.
[48:36.380 --> 48:37.860]  This is what I heard on a business report.
[48:37.920 --> 48:38.440]  I don't visit- .
[48:43.740 --> 48:44.020]  .
[48:44.480 --> 48:45.320]  Yeah, but you...
[48:45.320 --> 48:46.060]  They don't make a tour.
[48:46.140 --> 48:46.800]  Not ordinary visitor.
[48:47.260 --> 48:48.320]  They don't get public tours.
[48:48.520 --> 48:50.640]  But they now have to give you...
[48:50.640 --> 48:52.960]  You now have to give them your social security number.
[48:53.180 --> 48:53.400]  Oh, dear.
[48:53.440 --> 48:57.440]  Now, why are you giving your private security guard your social security number?
[48:57.520 --> 49:02.060]  And now they lost that information, just like UPS lost Citibank's thing.
[49:02.200 --> 49:03.480]  Yeah, everyone's losing everything.
[49:03.700 --> 49:08.200]  So I think people should call the stock exchange, and people have been identity theft victims.
[49:08.400 --> 49:09.500]  Do they have a phone number for them?
[49:09.980 --> 49:11.620]  The New York Stock Exchange, you could look it up.
[49:11.660 --> 49:13.800]  I don't have the number with me, but you could call them.
[49:14.820 --> 49:16.100]  And the New York Stock Exchange.
[49:16.460 --> 49:16.680]  Well, thanks.
[49:16.820 --> 49:17.460]  Thanks for the hint, Rebel.
[49:17.580 --> 49:19.100]  And we'll talk to you again in August.
[49:19.480 --> 49:21.060]  Doesn't that sound nice to say it like that?
[49:21.160 --> 49:23.220]  And, not Kevin, you had something to add to this?
[49:23.260 --> 49:26.520]  They still do public tours, and you do have to give your social security number.
[49:26.920 --> 49:27.200]  Okay.
[49:27.200 --> 49:33.540]  I happen to have the opportunity to partake in one of these tours, and once I found out that you had to fill out your social security number, I refused and tore up the form.
[49:33.680 --> 49:34.200]  Oh, wow.
[49:34.560 --> 49:35.200]  Look at you.
[49:35.440 --> 49:36.620]  I took a stand right there.
[49:36.840 --> 49:37.440]  What if you lie?
[49:37.900 --> 49:39.700]  Yeah, what if you give the wrong social security number?
[49:39.740 --> 49:41.300]  They do a background check.
[49:41.420 --> 49:42.020]  All right there.
[49:42.160 --> 49:43.000]  They look you up.
[49:43.000 --> 49:46.860]  No, you're supposed to submit this form two weeks or so prior to the tour.
[49:47.060 --> 49:47.800]  All right, Red Hat, what do you have?
[49:47.940 --> 49:51.780]  What if you use one of the dead people's social security numbers that vote during the election?
[49:51.920 --> 49:53.360]  Yeah, we have a whole list of those outside.
[49:54.060 --> 49:54.940]  Well, we'll talk afterwards.
[49:55.520 --> 50:01.800]  Now, Lexicon, you mentioned that Rebel, who we just heard from, is going to have a radio show of his own on Radio Statler at the conference?
[50:02.180 --> 50:02.600]  That's right.
[50:02.600 --> 50:14.040]  We're giving anybody who really wants to do a show and has their stuff organized the opportunity to come and do a program during the HOPE conference on our internal radio station that's going to broadcast out to the internet.
[50:14.400 --> 50:14.840]  Cool.
[50:14.980 --> 50:19.160]  And basically, you know, if you've got stuff to talk about, come and talk.
[50:19.300 --> 50:22.180]  So is there still a way for people to sign up for this?
[50:22.200 --> 50:22.380]  Absolutely.
[50:22.560 --> 50:28.580]  You can email projects at hope.net, and we'll get you taken care of.
[50:28.580 --> 50:29.300]  Awesome.
[50:29.780 --> 50:30.480]  Okay, let's take another phone call.
[50:30.480 --> 50:31.340]  Do you have anyone good?
[50:32.580 --> 50:33.600]  What's that supposed to mean?
[50:33.700 --> 50:33.960]  Wow.
[50:34.080 --> 50:34.900]  I mean, you know.
[50:36.220 --> 50:40.020]  Well, we're going to interview a lot of the speakers on the show.
[50:40.280 --> 50:45.220]  And it's basically a three-day long radio show where there's different people coming in to host.
[50:45.360 --> 50:51.540]  And if you're giving a talk, I suggest that you hook up with these people and have an interview on the air.
[50:51.840 --> 50:53.360]  Should these people email projects?
[50:53.560 --> 50:54.280]  Yeah, definitely.
[50:54.500 --> 50:55.640]  Okay, projects at hope.net.
[50:55.640 --> 51:02.240]  If you're a speaker at Hope or you want to speak at Hope and you want to speak to an audience of any sort, this is one way to do it.
[51:02.320 --> 51:04.240]  Okay, let's take another phone call.
[51:04.560 --> 51:05.280]  Good evening.
[51:05.680 --> 51:06.560]  You're on Off the Hook.
[51:07.840 --> 51:08.240]  Hello.
[51:08.560 --> 51:09.340]  Hi, what's on your mind?
[51:10.360 --> 51:13.900]  Oh, no, I just wanted to ask, not for advice, but an opinion.
[51:14.140 --> 51:15.040]  Okay, go ahead.
[51:16.180 --> 51:16.980]  It's about...
[51:16.980 --> 51:18.140]  Got to turn down your radio, though.
[51:18.160 --> 51:18.660]  That's my opinion.
[51:19.180 --> 51:20.800]  All right, let me turn it down, then.
[51:23.360 --> 51:24.100]  There you go.
[51:24.240 --> 51:24.520]  All right.
[51:24.640 --> 51:26.140]  No, it's just talk of Cuba.
[51:26.300 --> 51:29.720]  Anyway, I've been to Cuba a number of times with the Venture Amos Brigade.
[51:30.180 --> 51:30.540]  Okay.
[51:30.680 --> 51:32.320]  So I'm familiar with it.
[51:32.360 --> 51:33.320]  My siblings have been.
[51:33.440 --> 51:34.100]  I know a lot of people.
[51:34.220 --> 51:38.300]  But I live in an apartment with a woman who has a computer.
[51:39.360 --> 51:40.700]  I've shown her how to use it.
[51:41.940 --> 51:47.620]  And, okay, I get a knock at the door, and it's the FBI.
[51:48.400 --> 51:50.760]  And the only opinion I want is what...
[51:50.760 --> 51:51.780]  This is the description they give.
[51:53.540 --> 51:54.960]  It's my roommate at home.
[51:54.980 --> 51:55.980]  And I say, no, she's not here.
[51:57.040 --> 52:01.440]  And they say, well, we'd like to look at her computer.
[52:02.540 --> 52:09.260]  Because somebody in Oshkosh ripped off somebody in Kansas or something using her computer.
[52:09.700 --> 52:10.500]  Now, is that...
[52:10.500 --> 52:12.000]  I mean, I don't understand that.
[52:12.120 --> 52:13.800]  Is that, like, a possibility?
[52:14.820 --> 52:18.020]  Well, it's a possibility they'd use that kind of tactic to get into your house.
[52:18.020 --> 52:20.900]  Never let them into your house if they don't have a warrant of some sort.
[52:20.980 --> 52:21.580]  That's rule number one.
[52:21.580 --> 52:22.740]  No, no, I understand that.
[52:22.740 --> 52:25.620]  I'm just saying, is it totally bogus?
[52:26.440 --> 52:27.240]  It's possible.
[52:27.440 --> 52:28.220]  It's possible.
[52:28.300 --> 52:30.300]  But that sounds like a crazy story, if you ask me.
[52:30.420 --> 52:30.840]  I don't know.
[52:31.720 --> 52:36.880]  Coming to look at her computer because somebody ripped somebody off in a distant city.
[52:37.300 --> 52:38.040]  Right, right, right.
[52:38.040 --> 52:40.120]  It just sounds like they're looking for something else.
[52:40.600 --> 52:43.680]  Yeah, no, at any rate, I said, no, you can't look at the computer if she's not here.
[52:43.760 --> 52:46.080]  But, of course, a few weeks later, they came by and she was here.
[52:46.240 --> 52:46.560]  Uh-huh.
[52:46.660 --> 52:47.200]  What happened then?
[52:47.200 --> 52:47.640]  And they...
[52:47.640 --> 52:52.460]  Well, I was lying down and she basically said, hey, Danny, these guys want to talk to you.
[52:52.580 --> 52:53.120]  Well, anyway.
[52:54.040 --> 52:56.040]  So, they asked me to email them.
[52:56.780 --> 52:58.340]  And, you know, I'm thinking...
[52:58.340 --> 52:59.900]  Yeah, well, I sort of looked at them.
[52:59.980 --> 53:00.320]  I looked at them.
[53:00.600 --> 53:01.920]  Basically, we both know the score.
[53:02.480 --> 53:03.620]  You know, we're looking at each other.
[53:03.620 --> 53:09.040]  And I just said, all right, well, I signed on under her email address and I emailed something.
[53:09.320 --> 53:11.220]  And it had something to do with ports.
[53:11.440 --> 53:12.660]  I don't know what the hell it was.
[53:12.880 --> 53:13.380]  Port scanning?
[53:14.420 --> 53:15.320]  Something like that.
[53:15.420 --> 53:16.840]  Or docking at ports.
[53:17.360 --> 53:18.320]  No, port scanning.
[53:18.700 --> 53:19.300]  I don't know.
[53:19.360 --> 53:20.440]  I have the document.
[53:20.680 --> 53:21.080]  Anyway.
[53:21.320 --> 53:21.560]  Uh-huh.
[53:21.600 --> 53:23.760]  So, it sounds kind of bogus is what you're saying.
[53:23.860 --> 53:24.320]  It does.
[53:24.460 --> 53:28.860]  But then again, that's sort of my default reaction anytime some kind of investigative authority comes knocking.
[53:29.200 --> 53:30.600]  But listen, best of luck with that.
[53:30.680 --> 53:32.420]  Keep us informed if anything else comes of it.
[53:32.520 --> 53:33.660]  And thanks for your call.
[53:33.800 --> 53:35.000]  Let's see if we can fit in one or two more.
[53:36.260 --> 53:37.140]  And good evening.
[53:37.520 --> 53:38.160]  You're on Off the Hook.
[53:39.380 --> 53:40.100]  Speak up, please.
[53:41.660 --> 53:41.980]  Okay.
[53:42.060 --> 53:43.980]  Well, unfortunately, you've got to speak faster than that.
[53:44.500 --> 53:45.020]  Good evening.
[53:45.160 --> 53:45.920]  You're on Off the Hook.
[53:46.560 --> 53:47.940]  But listen, best of luck with that.
[53:48.100 --> 53:48.240]  Keep us up.
[53:48.340 --> 53:48.660]  Okay.
[53:48.780 --> 53:50.440]  You know, you also can't hold the phone up to the radio.
[53:50.540 --> 53:51.620]  That's just going to confuse everybody.
[53:51.960 --> 53:52.460]  Good evening.
[53:52.620 --> 53:53.260]  You're on Off the Hook.
[53:53.320 --> 53:55.380]  Hey, this is...
[53:55.380 --> 53:56.140]  Can you guys hear me?
[53:56.400 --> 53:57.160]  We hear you fine.
[53:57.680 --> 53:58.000]  Okay.
[53:58.000 --> 54:00.060]  Yeah, I was actually...
[54:00.060 --> 54:04.700]  This is my second time being able to listen to you guys' show on shortwave radio.
[54:04.860 --> 54:05.080]  I don't know.
[54:05.160 --> 54:08.740]  It's actually getting you guys decently clear in Chicago.
[54:09.240 --> 54:09.680]  Nice.
[54:11.340 --> 54:17.100]  But it was kind of interesting because I've listened to your show pretty much always on podcasts.
[54:17.100 --> 54:21.020]  This is actually the first time I was ever able to call in on a live show.
[54:21.020 --> 54:28.040]  So I was wondering if you guys have, like, any multiple shortwave radio stations, or do you just stream on 7415?
[54:28.640 --> 54:31.040]  At the moment, it's just on 7415.
[54:32.520 --> 54:35.420]  And other stations are, of course, welcome to pick us up.
[54:35.460 --> 54:37.880]  In fact, other stations around the world are welcome to pick us up.
[54:37.940 --> 54:40.460]  And sometimes, Mike, we get letters, right, from people that...
[54:40.460 --> 54:40.700]  Uh-oh.
[54:41.520 --> 54:42.780]  Sometimes our tele...
[54:42.780 --> 54:44.440]  That's Bernie, actually, we lost.
[54:44.640 --> 54:44.960]  Oh, dear.
[54:44.960 --> 54:49.460]  I hung up on the caller thinking it was the caller, but Bernie's phone got messed up again.
[54:50.020 --> 54:50.180]  All right.
[54:50.240 --> 54:55.800]  Well, Mike, we get letters from people sometimes who want to simulcast the show.
[54:55.920 --> 54:57.280]  What's our general policy towards that?
[54:57.820 --> 55:02.500]  As long as they don't do something silly, like claim that they're us, then I think it's fine.
[55:02.700 --> 55:02.880]  Yeah.
[55:03.000 --> 55:05.420]  Because identity theft is a bad thing.
[55:05.540 --> 55:05.680]  Yeah.
[55:05.760 --> 55:05.920]  Yeah.
[55:05.920 --> 55:06.720]  We don't approve of that.
[55:06.840 --> 55:07.040]  All right.
[55:08.100 --> 55:09.140]  Send us an email, though.
[55:09.340 --> 55:13.780]  It would be nice if you're going to just temporarily even borrow our identity.
[55:14.020 --> 55:14.280]  Mm-hmm.
[55:15.640 --> 55:17.500]  Um, this is interesting.
[55:17.680 --> 55:23.520]  I'm just getting this information, that apparently, apparently a case of identity theft is taking place right here in the studio.
[55:24.600 --> 55:25.040]  No.
[55:25.240 --> 55:26.000]  That's not very nice.
[55:26.240 --> 55:26.520]  What?
[55:26.700 --> 55:27.120]  Good heavens.
[55:27.180 --> 55:30.040]  Well, this person is saying that they're red-hacked is not really red-hacked.
[55:30.260 --> 55:31.820]  You know, you do look different.
[55:32.180 --> 55:33.280]  Dun, dun, dun.
[55:33.620 --> 55:35.720]  Um, you're not red-hacked, are you?
[55:36.640 --> 55:37.080]  Possibly.
[55:37.360 --> 55:43.140]  You know, to fool us for an entire hour like this, and to fool the listeners, I don't think...
[55:43.140 --> 55:45.520]  The last time I saw red-hacked, he was much more pale.
[55:46.080 --> 55:47.220]  Uh, yeah, yeah.
[55:47.620 --> 55:51.660]  Um, is this a federal crime over the air to steal someone's ID like this?
[55:51.800 --> 55:52.200]  I don't know.
[55:52.360 --> 55:52.520]  All right.
[55:52.580 --> 55:54.280]  We've got to talk about this after the show, which is now.
[55:54.700 --> 56:04.280]  Um, I'd like to, uh, start a tradition tonight where we go out with a song about telephones and see if we can do this every single week for the next year, it being the first, uh, first week of, uh, July.
[56:04.520 --> 56:06.840]  Let's see if we can keep this up to the first week of July next year.
[56:06.940 --> 56:09.080]  That's assuming, of course, we don't get canceled between now and then.
[56:09.480 --> 56:15.240]  Uh, so, um, send in your requests, your demands for songs having to do with telephones.
[56:16.120 --> 56:17.780]  And, uh, this first one, well, you know what?
[56:17.780 --> 56:22.840]  You guys can figure out on the wiki that the listeners will start what song this is.
[56:23.040 --> 56:24.380]  Might remember it from way back.
[56:24.700 --> 56:26.640]  Until next time, Emmanuel for Off the Hook.
[56:26.720 --> 56:27.180]  Have a good night.
[56:56.170 --> 56:57.730]  How are you?
[56:59.570 --> 57:01.330]  Have you been all right?
[57:02.190 --> 57:07.410]  Through all those lonely, lonely, lonely, lonely, lonely nights.
[57:07.750 --> 57:09.170]  That's what I'd say.
[57:10.930 --> 57:12.990]  I'd tell you everything.
[57:12.990 --> 57:17.590]  If you'd pick up that telephone.
[57:19.510 --> 57:21.410]  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[57:23.510 --> 57:24.390]  Hey!
[57:26.370 --> 57:28.230]  How you feeling?
[57:29.770 --> 57:31.810]  Are you still the same?
[57:32.170 --> 57:36.010]  Don't you realize the things we did, we did?
[57:36.250 --> 57:38.310]  We're all for real.
[57:38.530 --> 57:39.610]  Not a dream.
[57:41.030 --> 57:43.750]  I just can't believe.
[57:44.370 --> 57:48.070]  Him all faded out of blue.
[57:49.850 --> 57:51.110]  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[58:00.680 --> 58:03.360]  Do-a-do-a-do-a-do-a.
[58:03.460 --> 58:06.230]  Do-a-do-a-do-a.
[58:06.770 --> 58:08.340]  Blue days.
[58:08.840 --> 58:10.080]  Black nights.
[58:10.660 --> 58:12.600]  Do-a-do-a.
[58:14.320 --> 58:16.800]  Look into the sky.
[58:17.080 --> 58:20.180]  The love you need ain't gonna see it through.
[58:21.800 --> 58:23.520]  I'm barely put in my love.
[58:23.520 --> 58:24.300]  I'm hungry.
[58:24.600 --> 58:27.400]  As global warming, soaring food prices, war...