[00:00.180 --> 00:08.200]  You've been listening to Free Speech Radio News, which is supported by Pacifica Radio, community radio affiliate stations and listener supporters.
[00:08.500 --> 00:09.920]  You can send us your feedback.
[00:09.920 --> 00:13.760]  Just drop us an email to comments at fsrn.org.
[00:14.260 --> 00:17.540]  That's comments at fsrn.org.
[00:17.540 --> 00:21.280]  Our newscast is produced by Catherine Komp and Vinod Joes.
[00:21.440 --> 00:22.780]  Our Washington, D.C.
[00:22.940 --> 00:24.300]  editor is Leanne Caldwell.
[00:24.440 --> 00:26.620]  And our headlines editor is Shannon Young.
[00:26.880 --> 00:31.200]  Our tech team at KPFA in Berkeley includes Puck Lowe and Rose Katabchi.
[00:31.500 --> 00:34.360]  From KPFK in L.A., I'm Aura Bogado.
[00:38.130 --> 00:41.530]  And you're listening to radio station WBAI in New York.
[00:41.750 --> 00:43.410]  The time is 7 o'clock.
[00:43.590 --> 00:45.050]  Time once again for Off the Hook.
[00:53.400 --> 00:54.780]  I ripped it off the wall.
[00:55.820 --> 00:57.760]  I cut myself while shaving.
[00:58.340 --> 01:00.280]  Now I can't make a cough.
[01:01.060 --> 01:03.120]  We couldn't get much worse.
[01:05.490 --> 01:08.550]  Put on diddly bon for the best, expect the worst.
[01:09.230 --> 01:11.050]  I hope that's understood.
[01:11.270 --> 01:12.090]  Bon diddly bon!
[02:25.720 --> 02:26.900]  And good evening to everybody.
[02:27.020 --> 02:28.050]  The program is Off the Hook.
[02:28.100 --> 02:30.320]  Emmanuel Goldstein here with you on this Wednesday evening.
[02:31.180 --> 02:34.060]  Joined tonight by the returning Mike.
[02:34.550 --> 02:35.930]  Hello, from New York City.
[02:36.360 --> 02:37.990]  And you were where last time?
[02:38.320 --> 02:40.340]  Last week I was in San Francisco.
[02:40.840 --> 02:41.220]  Okay.
[02:42.000 --> 02:42.740]  And now I'm not.
[02:42.930 --> 02:44.440]  Well, you were somewhere else the week before that, too.
[02:44.580 --> 02:45.060]  You were in...
[02:45.060 --> 02:46.480]  Before that I was, I think, in Seattle.
[02:46.740 --> 02:46.980]  Seattle.
[02:47.200 --> 02:47.300]  Wow.
[02:47.420 --> 02:47.900]  That was...
[02:47.900 --> 02:49.660]  Did you learn anything by going out there?
[02:51.180 --> 02:51.580]  No.
[02:51.940 --> 02:52.460]  Okay, good.
[02:52.720 --> 02:53.160]  Well, then...
[02:53.160 --> 02:54.360]  Well, yeah, I learned one thing.
[02:54.400 --> 02:54.980]  The tradition continues.
[02:54.980 --> 03:00.540]  I learned one thing, which is that it's really good to have public transit that runs 24 hours.
[03:01.180 --> 03:03.240]  Which they don't have anywhere else except New York.
[03:03.360 --> 03:03.520]  Right.
[03:03.640 --> 03:04.000]  All right.
[03:04.000 --> 03:05.100]  I got stranded.
[03:05.360 --> 03:06.020]  Where'd you get stranded?
[03:06.080 --> 03:06.800]  In San Francisco.
[03:07.500 --> 03:09.440]  Isn't that funny to get stranded in the middle of a city?
[03:09.560 --> 03:10.340]  In the middle of a city.
[03:10.540 --> 03:10.860]  Wow.
[03:11.140 --> 03:15.460]  At 1 a.m., which I assume the trains would run at least till 1, but they stop at midnight.
[03:15.600 --> 03:15.820]  Uh-huh.
[03:16.200 --> 03:17.020]  You're talking about BART?
[03:17.220 --> 03:17.480]  Yes.
[03:17.600 --> 03:17.780]  Yeah.
[03:18.670 --> 03:20.000]  Well, I don't know what to say.
[03:20.200 --> 03:22.380]  That's how it is in just about every other city in the world.
[03:22.440 --> 03:28.240]  No, usually they run till 1 or 2, not midnight in a real city like San Francisco pretends to be.
[03:28.260 --> 03:30.560]  Well, I maintain San Francisco is not a real city because of that.
[03:30.740 --> 03:31.940]  And, you know, I know we'll get mail.
[03:32.080 --> 03:35.820]  I know that's going to happen, but get 24-hour transit, then I'll call you a real city.
[03:35.920 --> 03:40.800]  Until then, live from the real city of the world, New York City, where we can go anyplace at any hour.
[03:40.920 --> 03:41.670]  Red Hacked, how are you doing?
[03:41.670 --> 03:45.200]  Hey, you know, even Helsinki had buses running till 4 a.m.
[03:45.460 --> 03:45.640]  Uh-huh.
[03:45.700 --> 03:46.400]  Those are night buses.
[03:46.480 --> 03:48.300]  I don't count night buses as mass transit.
[03:48.740 --> 03:49.780]  I want to ride the trains.
[03:49.780 --> 03:50.440]  They got everywhere.
[03:50.800 --> 03:52.740]  Actually, wait, does Helsinki even have subways?
[03:53.020 --> 03:53.820]  It has one.
[03:54.000 --> 03:54.740]  It has one subway.
[03:54.920 --> 03:55.060]  Yeah.
[03:55.100 --> 03:56.740]  Oh, yeah, I guess that's all right, but it is kind of weird.
[03:56.740 --> 04:00.100]  But, I mean, you can get anywhere in the adjoining area by bus.
[04:00.280 --> 04:00.500]  Mm-hmm.
[04:01.470 --> 04:03.820]  But I had the same problem as Mike a couple times.
[04:04.080 --> 04:06.340]  I got stranded in Helsinki.
[04:06.560 --> 04:07.900]  I got stranded in the middle of nowhere.
[04:08.670 --> 04:09.740]  All sorts of fun things.
[04:09.740 --> 04:15.340]  Yeah, well, no matter where you are in this city, Brooklyn, the Bronx, even Staten Island.
[04:15.820 --> 04:16.380]  Even Staten Island.
[04:16.380 --> 04:17.080]  Hey, team, you're here.
[04:17.320 --> 04:17.560]  Hello.
[04:17.800 --> 04:19.840]  You were spending time in Staten Island.
[04:20.060 --> 04:20.740]  Yes, unfortunately.
[04:20.980 --> 04:26.060]  Well, you know, I actually spent some time in Staten Island because I dropped you off the other night.
[04:26.230 --> 04:27.200]  Yeah, that was a fun trek.
[04:28.240 --> 04:38.800]  Actually, I can't say that's the most time I ever spent in Staten Island because once my car broke down on the Verrazano Bridge, on the Verrazano Bridge, and it got pushed ...pushed over by a special truck that exists just to push over disabled cars.
[04:39.020 --> 04:44.500]  Not over the bridge, but down the road, where you have to stop and pay the toll before you continue with your disabled car.
[04:44.820 --> 04:48.480]  And I spent the entire day in Staten Island trying to convince people to come and get me.
[04:48.620 --> 04:54.900]  So that was the only time I spent longer than the time I dropped you off, where I had to drive all over the place in Staten Island.
[04:54.960 --> 04:57.230]  I appreciate how big it is now.
[04:57.520 --> 05:00.240]  It doesn't mean I like it anymore, but I appreciate how big it is.
[05:00.240 --> 05:01.240]  It definitely is big.
[05:01.320 --> 05:06.240]  And it can be rough, like you said, convincing people to come over there to see you, even if it means your car is broken down.
[05:06.280 --> 05:08.400]  But even you have 24-hour transit, right?
[05:08.420 --> 05:09.560]  You have that train.
[05:09.700 --> 05:12.670]  Yeah, that train, but I wouldn't advise the late-night routes.
[05:12.940 --> 05:15.340]  And you have... yeah, you ran into a bit of trouble there.
[05:15.380 --> 05:17.740]  Yeah, just a little bit of a late-night mugging, but it's okay.
[05:18.800 --> 05:21.400]  Do you want to describe the guy on the radio so anybody can track him down?
[05:21.640 --> 05:24.140]  Yeah, he looked like a jerk, a scumbag.
[05:24.420 --> 05:29.420]  Okay, so if you see somebody like that wandering around Staten Island, don't try to detain him yourself.
[05:30.080 --> 05:31.080]  Call the police.
[05:31.300 --> 05:32.380]  No, call Channel 4 News.
[05:32.620 --> 05:34.240]  Was this by any chance Green Goblin?
[05:34.420 --> 05:40.500]  That voice that just jumped in without being announced is the voice of Voltaire, who was visiting us from 914, I believe.
[05:40.820 --> 05:40.920]  Yeah.
[05:41.260 --> 05:42.880]  All right, 914 is where?
[05:43.180 --> 05:43.620]  Westchester.
[05:43.700 --> 05:45.180]  Westchester County here in New York.
[05:46.000 --> 05:49.200]  Diametrically opposed to Staten Island, which many of us believe should be in New Jersey.
[05:49.720 --> 05:52.720]  Boy, I've really gotten everybody angry at us tonight.
[05:53.540 --> 05:56.060]  How many times haven't we got people angry about Staten Island?
[05:56.280 --> 05:59.300]  Yeah, I know, but these are our listeners that support us during fundraising time.
[05:59.420 --> 06:01.540]  We don't want to anger them too much.
[06:01.600 --> 06:03.420]  Hey, we're not fundraising for another few weeks.
[06:03.460 --> 06:05.240]  That's true, and it will be coming in a few weeks.
[06:05.320 --> 06:07.520]  We'll give you details on that in just a few moments.
[06:07.720 --> 06:08.000]  Rob T.
[06:08.100 --> 06:08.800]  Firefly is here.
[06:09.100 --> 06:09.640]  Good evening.
[06:09.800 --> 06:11.460]  Have you got any horrible things to say about Long Island?
[06:11.900 --> 06:12.820]  631 or 516?
[06:13.460 --> 06:19.440]  Well, no, actually I have an affinity to 631, except for the fact that they stole 516 from us, those bastards in Nassau County.
[06:20.300 --> 06:22.040]  But no, other than that...
[06:22.040 --> 06:22.580]  Oh, come on.
[06:22.700 --> 06:24.460]  I can do better than that if you really want.
[06:24.460 --> 06:26.500]  Look, 631, that's me.
[06:26.520 --> 06:27.120]  That's where I'm from.
[06:27.240 --> 06:27.960]  That's my hood, you know?
[06:29.460 --> 06:31.740]  And you technically are actually, what, 617?
[06:32.660 --> 06:33.060]  617?
[06:33.360 --> 06:33.680]  What?
[06:33.800 --> 06:34.300]  From Massachusetts.
[06:34.560 --> 06:35.620]  I grew up in 7...
[06:35.620 --> 06:36.980]  Well, what's now 781.
[06:37.080 --> 06:37.580]  What was it before?
[06:38.220 --> 06:39.420]  Before that, it was 617.
[06:39.420 --> 06:39.980]  Okay, then.
[06:40.180 --> 06:41.640]  I seem to know your past better than you.
[06:42.300 --> 06:45.680]  Dot Rhett is here, and we're not going to say where you're from.
[06:45.860 --> 06:46.760]  You're from someplace.
[06:47.330 --> 06:48.040]  Yeah, someplace.
[06:48.040 --> 06:50.320]  Can I say the area code, at least?
[06:50.580 --> 06:51.640]  You could say this kind of area code.
[06:51.640 --> 06:53.920]  Why don't you put the microphone back together, and I...
[06:53.920 --> 06:54.620]  I think it's working.
[06:54.760 --> 06:54.980]  All right.
[06:55.060 --> 06:57.020]  You know, we have as many microphones as people.
[06:57.260 --> 06:57.840]  They're just...
[06:57.840 --> 06:59.860]  You're from 718, and that could be anywhere.
[07:00.100 --> 07:02.080]  718 encompasses a whole lot of regions.
[07:02.720 --> 07:03.860]  Especially my 718.
[07:04.000 --> 07:06.620]  And down in 215 is Bernie S.
[07:06.800 --> 07:07.280]  joining us.
[07:08.560 --> 07:09.340]  I think.
[07:09.560 --> 07:10.180]  Bernie, are you there?
[07:12.000 --> 07:13.680]  Well, 215 is...
[07:13.680 --> 07:15.620]  Basically, they don't speak down there.
[07:15.800 --> 07:16.860]  Maybe it's 267.
[07:16.860 --> 07:18.340]  Maybe I have to guess it and get it right.
[07:18.500 --> 07:18.860]  610?
[07:19.660 --> 07:20.020]  No?
[07:20.440 --> 07:21.200]  There's one other.
[07:21.360 --> 07:22.220]  There's one other area.
[07:23.140 --> 07:24.360]  You want to try to reach them again?
[07:24.520 --> 07:25.300]  We can hang up.
[07:25.300 --> 07:27.040]  These telephones are insane.
[07:27.240 --> 07:29.300]  Or maybe it's just Pennsylvania that's insane.
[07:31.220 --> 07:31.940]  So, yes.
[07:32.740 --> 07:33.640]  That's who we are.
[07:33.740 --> 07:36.800]  And, of course, our listeners are out there from all over the world.
[07:36.800 --> 07:39.080]  And we love to hear from them as well.
[07:39.640 --> 07:42.460]  I could kill time by talking about nothing until we get Bernie back.
[07:42.480 --> 07:44.780]  But I think what I'll do instead is I'll launch into...
[07:44.780 --> 07:57.680]  Since we were talking about mass transit, there was a software glitch that was reported in the New York Times today that affected various commuter trains at Long Island Railroad and Metro North.
[07:57.720 --> 07:58.140]  Is he back?
[07:58.720 --> 07:59.580]  He said hello.
[07:59.760 --> 08:00.640]  Bernie, are you in 215?
[08:01.680 --> 08:02.420]  Am I what?
[08:02.640 --> 08:04.120]  215, 267, 610?
[08:04.300 --> 08:06.640]  I am back in the 215 area code.
[08:06.640 --> 08:07.560]  What's the other area code?
[08:07.620 --> 08:08.420]  There's one more down there.
[08:10.220 --> 08:14.120]  There's 215, there's 610, there's 267, and there's 484.
[08:14.220 --> 08:15.320]  That's the 1484.
[08:16.000 --> 08:16.540]  All right.
[08:16.900 --> 08:17.720]  Thanks for clearing that up.
[08:17.740 --> 08:19.340]  I liked it better when it was just 215.
[08:19.520 --> 08:20.660]  I did, too, actually.
[08:20.840 --> 08:21.920]  I liked it better when...
[08:21.920 --> 08:28.440]  For those of you who don't know, I don't know if the guys in this room even know this, all of Manhattan, including Brooklyn, Queens, Staten Island, the Bronx...
[08:29.840 --> 08:31.220]  None of those places are in Manhattan.
[08:31.440 --> 08:32.340]  Yeah, they all...
[08:33.240 --> 08:33.720]  All right.
[08:33.720 --> 08:36.120]  They all used to be 212 is the point I'm trying to make.
[08:36.360 --> 08:37.280]  They all used to be 212.
[08:37.760 --> 08:40.860]  And Long Island, Nassau County, Suffolk County, 516.
[08:41.840 --> 08:42.200]  All right.
[08:42.380 --> 08:44.580]  914, 518, 716.
[08:44.720 --> 08:46.520]  And you know something interesting about those area codes?
[08:46.760 --> 08:48.840]  They all have one in the middle of them.
[08:48.960 --> 08:51.900]  And that was a special code way back, way back in the day.
[08:53.140 --> 08:56.160]  States that had more than one area code always had a one in the middle.
[08:56.420 --> 09:00.200]  And states that only had one area code always had a zero in the middle.
[09:00.400 --> 09:02.740]  If you look this up, like New Mexico, for instance, 505.
[09:02.740 --> 09:04.400]  It was the only area code in the state.
[09:05.000 --> 09:10.420]  Now, Pennsylvania, I believe, had 215 and 717.
[09:11.220 --> 09:11.280]  Yeah.
[09:11.520 --> 09:12.160]  And what's Pittsburgh?
[09:12.340 --> 09:12.740]  412?
[09:13.300 --> 09:13.700]  Yes.
[09:13.940 --> 09:14.200]  Yeah.
[09:14.860 --> 09:15.780]  So you could tell.
[09:16.080 --> 09:17.000]  There was a system.
[09:17.280 --> 09:17.660]  It worked.
[09:18.360 --> 09:19.440]  Then they had to break it.
[09:20.760 --> 09:21.340]  You know?
[09:21.660 --> 09:23.340]  To this day, I'm embittered by it.
[09:23.400 --> 09:25.440]  Because all they had to do was add a digit to the area code.
[09:25.560 --> 09:28.700]  And they could have maintained the geographic sense that it had.
[09:28.900 --> 09:31.860]  And instead, now you have all these crazy area codes.
[09:31.860 --> 09:36.800]  And the people who live here don't even know 347 is actually Brooklyn and Queens and Staten Island and the Bronx.
[09:37.540 --> 09:38.840]  People who live there don't know that.
[09:39.860 --> 09:44.840]  And that's not taking into account cell phones and the fact that some people don't even know where their area codes are based anymore.
[09:44.880 --> 09:48.460]  People come to this state from California and they keep their California number.
[09:48.620 --> 09:51.040]  And you think you're calling them over there, but they're right next door to you.
[09:51.920 --> 09:53.140]  Nobody knows where anything is anymore.
[09:53.140 --> 10:12.400]  But to get back to the story I started, hundreds of rail riders appear to have benefited since 2001, and most of them had no idea about this, from a software glitch that allowed vending machines on the LIRR and Metro North Railroad to dispense free tickets on some debit card transactions.
[10:12.980 --> 10:17.500]  Three people have been arrested and charged with knowingly exploiting the problems.
[10:17.580 --> 10:18.620]  Knowledge is a crime.
[10:18.620 --> 10:25.980]  to buy about $800,000 worth of Long Island Railroad tickets and Metro cards, many of which they resold, according to police and prosecutors.
[10:26.260 --> 10:34.720]  The two railroads said on Tuesday that hundreds of honest passengers who used the machines had also gotten free tickets, although in most cases they probably never realized it.
[10:34.830 --> 10:36.780]  What I want to know is, how do you know they were honest?
[10:37.550 --> 10:38.500]  Honest by default?
[10:38.720 --> 10:39.080]  How do you...
[10:39.080 --> 10:40.340]  What, they just kept their mouths shut?
[10:40.450 --> 10:41.720]  Does that mean they're red-hacked?
[10:42.100 --> 10:44.830]  Because they didn't buy $800,000 worth of tickets.
[10:44.900 --> 10:45.740]  Okay, there's that.
[10:45.740 --> 10:50.120]  They bought maybe a ticket every month and then, okay, you know, they didn't know they were getting charged.
[10:50.120 --> 10:54.950]  So, by that logic, it's okay to steal one thing, but just not 800,000 of them.
[10:55.740 --> 10:56.080]  Exactly.
[10:56.380 --> 10:59.200]  Well, the thing is that it's plausible deniability.
[10:59.380 --> 11:05.300]  If you buy your monthly ticket every month and you notice you're not getting charged and you don't say anything, you say, oh, well, I didn't realize it.
[11:05.420 --> 11:11.560]  But if you suddenly buy, you know, 500 tickets, you don't need 500 tickets, so you can't say, well, I needed those.
[11:11.560 --> 11:13.220]  Who are you to tell me what I need and what I don't need?
[11:13.280 --> 11:14.440]  Maybe I do need 500 tickets.
[11:14.440 --> 11:15.580]  Because you keep losing them.
[11:15.700 --> 11:16.320]  You keep losing them.
[11:16.460 --> 11:20.620]  I'm expecting some kind of, like, war or something where the power will be out and I won't be able to use the tickets.
[11:20.920 --> 11:21.100]  Well, they expire.
[11:22.100 --> 11:22.340]  Oh.
[11:22.820 --> 11:23.420]  Well, okay.
[11:23.480 --> 11:24.700]  We'll figure something out then.
[11:24.700 --> 11:30.800]  At the rates these railroads charge, you cannot get 800,000 tickets for $800,000 for sure.
[11:31.180 --> 11:31.880]  Okay, then...
[11:31.880 --> 11:33.400]  You'll be lucky to get 80,000.
[11:33.620 --> 11:34.780]  Then let's say 80,000 tickets.
[11:34.880 --> 11:36.500]  All of a sudden, the crime has gone down quite a bit.
[11:36.900 --> 11:37.160]  Yeah.
[11:37.200 --> 11:45.440]  I'm really curious as to how many tickets that works out to because a friend of mine and I have long had contests with the LIRR vending machines as to how high a price we can get on one shot.
[11:45.980 --> 11:51.380]  And we end up buying, like, monthly tickets to Montauk and back and, you know, 10 of them.
[11:51.480 --> 11:53.200]  And I think we got it up to $1,500 once.
[11:53.200 --> 11:53.960]  You know what I love doing?
[11:53.960 --> 12:01.980]  I love going to the airline sites and trying to find the most expensive way to fly from one city to another, like Los Angeles to San Francisco or something like that.
[12:02.040 --> 12:03.560]  I've gotten it up to, like, $12,000.
[12:04.140 --> 12:06.520]  And it's by way of Minneapolis, something crazy like that.
[12:06.640 --> 12:07.600]  They'll sell you the ticket.
[12:07.720 --> 12:10.800]  They'll sell you tickets for outrageous amounts if you just give them the chance.
[12:11.000 --> 12:12.440]  You know, you could just fly first class.
[12:12.720 --> 12:13.040]  Yeah.
[12:13.120 --> 12:15.120]  And, you know, sometimes that isn't even flying first class.
[12:15.280 --> 12:17.740]  Sometimes that's some kind of coach deal where...
[12:17.740 --> 12:18.200]  I don't know.
[12:18.300 --> 12:19.600]  I don't know how airlines work.
[12:19.720 --> 12:22.680]  Or you have to go to Japan first because it's a layover.
[12:22.780 --> 12:23.680]  You'll still spend more money.
[12:23.960 --> 12:30.400]  People who design the most complex computer systems in the world would not be able to figure out how the airlines do their business.
[12:30.460 --> 12:35.360]  They want it to be that way, the airlines, so that you can't figure out how to save money.
[12:35.640 --> 12:36.440]  Yeah, absolutely.
[12:37.720 --> 12:38.720]  So, yeah, okay.
[12:39.120 --> 12:52.860]  The Long Island Railroad said that a check of its records from 2004 until May of 2008, when the glitch was discovered, found that in addition to the scam, there had been 990 transactions totaling $74,000 that appeared to be related to the software error.
[12:53.390 --> 13:03.280]  Metro North said it had not made such an extensive check, but in the first several months of this year, it found that the error had allowed the sale tickets worth $2,960 in which the buyer was not charged.
[13:03.840 --> 13:06.000]  These machines were installed in 2001.
[13:06.260 --> 13:10.900]  Metro North said there appeared to have been hundreds of the free transactions in the intervening years.
[13:11.620 --> 13:15.600]  It's happened hundreds of times that they appear to be completely accidental and unintentional.
[13:15.680 --> 13:25.320]  So the spokeswoman, the person who's using their debit card, didn't know they were getting something for nothing unless they were very diligent at the end of the month to go reconcile their own statements.
[13:25.320 --> 13:28.740]  So unless you actually went and checked, that's...
[13:28.740 --> 13:30.220]  you never would have known.
[13:30.740 --> 13:38.060]  Only Long Island Railroad machines were used in the ticket scam because only people from Long Island would dare to do something like that, apparently.
[13:38.400 --> 13:38.580]  Finally.
[13:39.060 --> 13:42.880]  But yeah, so the problem was first detected in May.
[13:43.040 --> 13:52.220]  And the reason it was detected was because the two railroads were testing a software improvement to the ticket vending machines, which are installed just about everywhere.
[13:52.680 --> 13:56.240]  A credit card processing company had provided some credit and debit cards for the test.
[13:56.460 --> 14:04.780]  Technicians discovered that it was possible to buy tickets using one of the debit cards, even if there was not enough money in the account to cover the cost of the transaction.
[14:05.960 --> 14:09.260]  So, I mean, that just goes to show what's possible.
[14:09.660 --> 14:12.940]  Maybe if the card companies provided cards, numbers that weren't real.
[14:14.660 --> 14:16.120]  Yeah, there's that, I suppose.
[14:16.500 --> 14:18.780]  I want to know if Metro North would be responsible.
[14:19.240 --> 14:22.460]  I mean, or would they hold the company who wrote the software responsible for losing money?
[14:22.460 --> 14:23.720]  Oh, yeah, they want to, actually.
[14:24.600 --> 14:27.780]  They're saying that they're thinking of holding that company responsible.
[14:28.640 --> 14:32.200]  In addition to the people that they're charging with crimes.
[14:32.360 --> 14:36.320]  Yeah, you'd think if they got the people who got the cards, they would go for the company who caused all the loss.
[14:36.540 --> 14:36.740]  Yeah.
[14:38.740 --> 14:39.760]  Let's see what else.
[14:40.340 --> 14:50.020]  We've got some interesting mail, too, about various topics, including the credit card issues that we discussed last week.
[14:50.780 --> 14:53.020]  I believe, who was it who was affected by that?
[14:53.080 --> 14:55.760]  Somebody got charged by a gas station?
[14:55.960 --> 14:56.380]  Who was that?
[14:56.380 --> 14:57.040]  I was one of them.
[14:57.180 --> 14:58.540]  Do you want to recap what the...
[14:58.540 --> 14:59.940]  I was the Shell Station one.
[15:00.160 --> 15:00.420]  Uh-huh.
[15:00.500 --> 15:01.340]  You were a Shell Station.
[15:01.480 --> 15:01.700]  Yeah.
[15:01.840 --> 15:04.020]  And somebody else was Texaco, I think.
[15:04.080 --> 15:04.240]  Yeah.
[15:05.890 --> 15:08.420]  And what is it that happened?
[15:09.360 --> 15:19.540]  You get your credit cards, your debit card statement, and all of a sudden you notice several hundred dollars are gone into a single gas station at the same area, geographic area.
[15:20.300 --> 15:22.000]  For me, it was all in Jamaica, New York.
[15:22.660 --> 15:23.880]  It was all in the same place?
[15:23.880 --> 15:24.260]  Yeah.
[15:24.520 --> 15:25.340]  Oh, Jamaica, New York.
[15:25.460 --> 15:27.520]  I don't remember if it was the same place.
[15:27.740 --> 15:27.980]  Uh-huh.
[15:28.020 --> 15:28.320]  I forgot.
[15:29.680 --> 15:30.380]  Well, let's see.
[15:30.480 --> 15:35.440]  We have a letter from a listener who touches upon this.
[15:36.360 --> 15:36.860]  Let's see.
[15:36.980 --> 15:38.260]  We'll start over here.
[15:38.960 --> 15:41.920]  You guys discussed credit card fraud in last week's show.
[15:42.000 --> 15:43.080]  A very good discussion it was.
[15:43.500 --> 15:46.880]  I work in the area of credit card security and would like to make a few comments.
[15:46.880 --> 15:58.280]  Last week's bust was in large part a re-announcement of the TJX breach, which over the past year and a half has become the poster child for companies with weak security around payment card systems.
[15:58.740 --> 16:04.100]  Last week, they just announced more prosecutions and named some more retailers who were hit by the defendants.
[16:04.220 --> 16:07.740]  The lion's share of compromised cards and losses still came from TJX.
[16:08.220 --> 16:14.100]  There was war driving involved, but it was done by criminals who were specifically targeting TJ Maxx's store network.
[16:14.100 --> 16:25.220]  They got in because TJX was using WAP for their wireless lens, contrary to the PCI DSS security requirements that retailers are supposed to follow to protect credit card data.
[16:25.420 --> 16:32.860]  It's been reported that TJX management knew they were not secure enough but decided to take a chance rather than spend the money on upgrading their network.
[16:32.960 --> 16:35.020]  How many times have we heard similar stories?
[16:35.480 --> 16:40.140]  Most of the references to hacking seem to come from the media this time rather than the government.
[16:40.280 --> 16:50.840]  In fact, the Attorney General, Michael Mukasey, did not mention hackers when he said, So far as we know, this is the single largest and most complex identity theft case ever prosecuted in this country.
[16:51.380 --> 16:54.720]  The handle of the member of the gang still at large is...
[16:54.720 --> 16:55.180]  Ready?
[16:56.220 --> 16:56.660]  Ready?
[16:56.800 --> 16:56.940]  Okay.
[16:57.460 --> 16:58.380]  Del Pirio.
[16:58.500 --> 16:59.840]  D-E-L-P-I-E-L-O.
[16:59.900 --> 17:00.300]  Do we know him?
[17:00.640 --> 17:00.900]  No?
[17:01.040 --> 17:01.180]  Okay.
[17:01.560 --> 17:04.840]  The mastermind of this breach has been a U.S.
[17:04.960 --> 17:14.880]  Secret Service informant for several years since Project Firewall, in which they took over a carding website known as ShadowCrew.com used for buying and selling stolen credit card numbers.
[17:15.020 --> 17:26.860]  He was allegedly already a paid informant when he convinced a guy to breach a Lowe's store network, the guy who perfected the war driving technique used in TJX, in Salcido.
[17:26.980 --> 17:31.700]  The Salcido guy was caught and supposedly received the longest, quote-unquote, hacking sentence in U.S.
[17:32.060 --> 17:32.080]  history.
[17:32.480 --> 17:42.420]  The cost of implementing smart or chip credit cards is still several times the annual cost of fraud, which is one big reason why the industry has not yet committed to implementing it in the U.S.
[17:42.700 --> 17:47.640]  In the U.K., they estimated the payback in savings due to reduced fraud was four to five years.
[17:48.160 --> 17:53.420]  And implementing it in places like Canada and Europe is a lot easier due to a relatively small number of large banks.
[17:53.540 --> 17:56.720]  There are so many small banks in the U.S., and switching to chip is complicated.
[17:56.720 --> 18:07.360]  Another reason for the delay is that it is just easier to pass on the cost of fraud to merchants and consumers rather than make the investment in chip cards and readers, costs which are not so easy to recover.
[18:07.720 --> 18:08.800]  And because the U.S.
[18:08.800 --> 18:14.420]  is going to be the last major market to implement chip cards, payment card fraud is expected to gravitate to the U.S.
[18:14.560 --> 18:15.660]  from other countries.
[18:15.660 --> 18:26.560]  Now, in the incident that we were discussing last week, where some of your guests experienced fraudulent purchases at gas stations, these are popular because the risk is quite low.
[18:27.080 --> 18:33.420]  Staff in self-serve stations will not care much if you have to try a few times before you find a card that the pump accepts.
[18:33.820 --> 18:37.770]  When you pay at the pump, you find out right away if your clone card will work or not.
[18:37.900 --> 18:42.680]  And some chain's pumps will even accept the following code for the zip code.
[18:42.800 --> 18:42.920]  You ready?
[18:43.250 --> 18:43.840]  Write this down.
[18:44.380 --> 18:47.540]  Zero, zero, zero, zero, zero, zero.
[18:49.440 --> 18:53.860]  Zero, zero, zero, zero, zero, zero can be entered as the zip code.
[18:54.010 --> 18:55.900]  Now that's five zeros?
[18:56.160 --> 18:56.800]  Yeah, one more time, Mike.
[18:56.940 --> 18:58.480]  Zero, zero, zero.
[18:59.680 --> 19:00.980]  No, you wrote down three.
[19:01.980 --> 19:02.530]  Wait, wait.
[19:02.560 --> 19:03.340]  What were the first numbers?
[19:03.660 --> 19:04.940]  It's the third zero, but it's not.
[19:05.080 --> 19:07.100]  Zero, zero, zero, zero, zero, zero.
[19:07.540 --> 19:08.140]  Ah, okay.
[19:08.300 --> 19:10.440]  That doesn't sound like a valid zip code to me.
[19:10.440 --> 19:13.880]  Well, it's not, but it's necessary for visitors from other countries if they want to buy gas.
[19:14.030 --> 19:18.530]  What in God's name are you going to put if you're from England and your zip code is TC9 or whatever?
[19:18.600 --> 19:20.960]  But then they should realize that the card is from England.
[19:21.560 --> 19:22.640]  How are they going to realize that?
[19:22.660 --> 19:24.420]  How's a gas machine going to realize that?
[19:24.620 --> 19:25.160]  It's not possible.
[19:25.160 --> 19:26.540]  You could just listen to their accents.
[19:26.720 --> 19:27.300]  It'll be no problem.
[19:27.320 --> 19:34.080]  Perhaps Texaco and Shell stations were found to be working fine with clone cards for these guys as they were driving their SUVs around.
[19:34.430 --> 19:35.480]  You know what would be smart?
[19:35.600 --> 19:36.220]  They have...
[19:36.220 --> 19:40.900]  Have you ever noticed when you make an online purchase, they have that extra three numbers on the back?
[19:41.100 --> 19:44.100]  Yeah, that's become kind of useless, actually, because those numbers are, like, stored everywhere now.
[19:44.460 --> 19:45.120]  They're not supposed to be.
[19:45.250 --> 19:51.720]  Right, but what I'm saying is that a lot of the credit card fraud happens from these skimmers that people use that, you know, they swipe the card quickly through it.
[19:51.770 --> 19:53.380]  But then if you added that extra step of...
[19:53.380 --> 19:53.800]  No, never mind.
[19:53.840 --> 19:54.360]  They still do it.
[19:54.750 --> 19:55.200]  That's right.
[19:55.270 --> 19:56.300]  They have to write down the number.
[19:56.460 --> 20:00.360]  But it's just easier to clone a card, you know, than to clone it and write it down.
[20:00.460 --> 20:02.220]  That informative letter comes from Fred in Toronto.
[20:02.320 --> 20:04.600]  I want to thank you very much for letting us know all that.
[20:04.840 --> 20:06.770]  Fred says he was at the last hope and had a great time.
[20:06.770 --> 20:08.100]  He's looking forward to the next one.
[20:08.290 --> 20:11.270]  And we're looking forward to having you down here in New York again in 2010.
[20:12.910 --> 20:18.540]  So, yeah, a lot of fun with credit cards and malfunctions and things like that.
[20:18.620 --> 20:18.840]  Manuel?
[20:19.030 --> 20:19.510]  Yes, go ahead, Bernie.
[20:19.980 --> 20:28.120]  I scraped the three-digit code off of the back of one of my credit cards and just memorized it in case it was lost.
[20:28.290 --> 20:28.420]  Right.
[20:28.420 --> 20:30.160]  I mean, not lost, in case it was skimmed.
[20:31.060 --> 20:32.800]  So that may be one way around it.
[20:32.820 --> 20:38.080]  I've never seen a merchant where you hand the card to them, look and inspect to see if that code is on there.
[20:38.270 --> 20:44.880]  Yeah, but no doubt you've seen a merchant online ask you for those three digits and what they do with them after you give it to them.
[20:45.300 --> 20:46.900]  That's something that's creepy.
[20:47.120 --> 20:47.160]  Oh, right.
[20:47.160 --> 20:54.800]  This would only address issues that RedHack just brought up where it could be skimmed at a brick-and-mortar type store.
[20:54.960 --> 20:55.580]  Yes, absolutely.
[20:56.220 --> 21:00.510]  And TJ Maxx, you mentioned earlier, they really knew that they had these problems.
[21:00.510 --> 21:07.320]  And they fired one of their employees back in May, who was a 23-year-old employee who worked in their IT department.
[21:07.480 --> 21:14.750]  And he realized and brought to his manager's attention that their servers were all running in admin mode and with blank passwords.
[21:15.390 --> 21:21.700]  And he told this to his employer, his managers, and they told him to shut up about it, and they continued to run it in that mode.
[21:21.960 --> 21:25.980]  So finally he posted something online to the effect, and they found out he did it, and they fired him.
[21:25.980 --> 21:29.440]  So TJ Maxx, and TJ Maxx was not punished for this at all.
[21:30.910 --> 21:35.800]  What I thought was interesting about the letter also was that he mentioned that there's so many small banks in the U.S.
[21:36.080 --> 21:37.220]  that are issuing cards.
[21:37.460 --> 21:47.120]  And I hadn't thought about that before because last week when I was talking, I was mentioning how with my finished credit card, I had like a list of random pins that I entered when I bought stuff online.
[21:47.220 --> 21:51.120]  But I had to route through the bank's authentication service in order to do that.
[21:51.220 --> 22:02.800]  And if you have, you know, there is okay, there's what, five different banks, but here if you've got 100 different banks, that's not so simple for a web merchant to say, you know, route it through them, which is probably why things like PayPal are so useful.
[22:03.100 --> 22:05.300]  This is an entirely solvable problem, though.
[22:05.960 --> 22:06.800]  I mean, I could...
[22:06.800 --> 22:07.560]  What, use cash?
[22:07.740 --> 22:08.780]  Well, you could use cash.
[22:08.900 --> 22:17.420]  You could, you know, there's a lot of websites, but there's only a few payment gateways that actually process credit cards online, and they can learn to deal with it.
[22:17.600 --> 22:23.520]  There's all kinds of solutions that we don't have to develop here because it's the banking industry's job.
[22:24.460 --> 22:26.160]  But they're just lazy, I think.
[22:26.280 --> 22:27.380]  It's easier to pass the buck.
[22:27.600 --> 22:28.020]  Mm-hmm.
[22:28.160 --> 22:29.820]  And pass the cost on to consumers.
[22:30.960 --> 22:31.400]  Okay.
[22:31.460 --> 22:38.040]  Other news this week, of course, is the war taking place over in parts of the world that many of us have never even heard of before.
[22:39.040 --> 22:49.580]  And weeks before, according to a New York Times story that came out today from our friend John Markoff, weeks before bombs started falling on Georgia, a security researcher in suburban Massachusetts was watching an attack
[22:55.920 --> 23:08.960]  Jose Nazario of Arbor Networks in Lexington noticed a stream of data directed at Georgian government sites containing the message win plus love plus in plus Russia.
[23:09.140 --> 23:10.960]  And I don't know if it's intentionally spelled wrong.
[23:10.960 --> 23:12.420]  It's R-U-S-I-A.
[23:13.640 --> 23:17.240]  So, and of course, the pluses aren't necessarily part of the phrase.
[23:17.400 --> 23:18.780]  It could be just win love in Russia.
[23:18.920 --> 23:20.000]  I don't know what that even means.
[23:20.500 --> 23:30.380]  Other internet experts in the United States said the attacks against Georgia's internet infrastructure began as early as July 20th, which was the last day of the Last Hope Conference.
[23:30.480 --> 23:31.940]  We had nothing to do with any of that.
[23:32.480 --> 23:33.200]  We promise.
[23:33.360 --> 23:34.720]  Well, I'm just pointing that out.
[23:34.920 --> 23:36.000]  I mean, who would have had time?
[23:36.020 --> 23:37.020]  I'm preemptively pointing that out.
[23:37.040 --> 23:37.860]  Who would have had time?
[23:37.900 --> 23:38.080]  Exactly.
[23:38.080 --> 23:39.060]  Without running around?
[23:39.060 --> 23:41.020]  No, we were shutting down the network then, okay?
[23:41.020 --> 23:42.080]  We were shutting it down.
[23:42.740 --> 23:46.560]  Of course, with the time difference, I suppose we wouldn't have been shutting it down just then.
[23:46.640 --> 23:48.160]  But no, we had nothing to do with it.
[23:48.160 --> 23:56.260]  With coordinating barrages of millions of requests known as distributed denial of service or DDoS attacks that overloaded and effectively shut down Georgian servers.
[23:56.580 --> 24:07.680]  Researchers at Shadow Server, a volunteer group that tracks malicious network activity, reported that the website of the Georgian president had been rendered inoperable for 24 hours by multiple DDoS attacks.
[24:07.900 --> 24:15.460]  They said the command and control server that directed the attack was based in the United States and had come online several weeks before it began the assault.
[24:15.460 --> 24:22.120]  As it turns out, according to this story, the July attack may have been a dress rehearsal for an all-out cyber war.
[24:22.400 --> 24:32.180]  Once this shooting started between Georgia and Russia, according to internet technical experts, it was the first time a known cyber attack had coincided with a shooting war.
[24:32.380 --> 24:33.740]  What do you guys think about that?
[24:33.880 --> 24:34.200]  Cyber war.
[24:34.200 --> 24:40.520]  You know, I'll be really impressed when someone can make these correlations before the actual physical attack.
[24:40.520 --> 24:45.620]  I'm not impressed at all with someone who can say, yeah, I would have told you so a month ago, but I didn't.
[24:46.920 --> 24:50.820]  Well, they don't know who was who was exactly behind the cyber attack.
[24:51.380 --> 24:53.840]  The Georgian government blamed Russia for the attacks.
[24:53.980 --> 24:55.640]  The Russian government said it was not involved.
[24:56.140 --> 25:12.820]  In the end, Georgia, with a population of just 4.6 million relative latecomer to the internet, saw little effect beyond inaccessibility to many of its government websites, which limited the government's ability to spread its message online and to connect with sympathizers around the world during the fighting with Russia.
[25:13.520 --> 25:14.920]  Yeah, I'd have to agree with Mike.
[25:14.920 --> 25:21.420]  I'd be a bit more impressed when I see them trying to take down defense networks or something before attacking, like messing with their radar.
[25:21.680 --> 25:23.500]  You think Georgia has defense networks?
[25:24.100 --> 25:25.820]  Probably not, which is...
[25:25.820 --> 25:29.660]  But otherwise, you could say it's just simply, you know, cyber patriots.
[25:29.900 --> 25:31.620]  Well, you know, I've also been watching...
[25:31.620 --> 25:35.280]  And for those of you in New York who have a Time Warner cable, I don't think we really have a choice.
[25:35.520 --> 25:37.280]  Pretty much everyone has that cable company.
[25:38.040 --> 25:45.760]  But on Channel 135 is a channel called Russia Today that is basically filled with pro-Russian propaganda.
[25:45.960 --> 25:47.580]  It's the most amazing thing to watch.
[25:47.680 --> 25:52.200]  Whether or not it's true, whether it's false, it's simply incredible to see the slant.
[25:52.320 --> 25:54.540]  It's Fox News Network, basically, for Russia.
[25:55.680 --> 25:59.480]  And there they were saying that they were victims of cyber attacks.
[25:59.740 --> 26:02.180]  Of course, they were also victims of genocide and ethnic cleansing as well.
[26:02.560 --> 26:05.620]  But basically, cyber attacks rank right up there.
[26:05.620 --> 26:12.980]  It's amazing how something like this is one of the first things warring nations start accusing each other of.
[26:12.980 --> 26:19.380]  I thought an interesting headline on that station was that the UN and Russia call upon Georgia to cease the fighting.
[26:19.660 --> 26:20.600]  Which is true.
[26:20.840 --> 26:26.360]  It is true, technically, because the UN was calling on both Georgia and Russia to cease fighting.
[26:26.500 --> 26:28.740]  And Russia was probably telling Georgia to give up.
[26:28.900 --> 26:30.320]  Well, they were broadcast...
[26:30.320 --> 26:31.480]  But the way it was worded...
[26:31.480 --> 26:33.140]  They were broadcast in the UN hearings live.
[26:33.380 --> 26:37.820]  And the UN, people at the UN were saying that both of you guys have to stop this right now.
[26:37.980 --> 26:42.440]  And the headline, as you said, read, Russia stands with world against Georgia or something like that.
[26:42.480 --> 26:43.120]  And it was just, wow.
[26:43.820 --> 26:44.620]  It's true.
[26:44.840 --> 26:53.240]  But for people that aren't listening, for people that don't hear the translation or don't know what's actually going on, it's amazing how the truth falls victim so quickly.
[26:53.360 --> 26:53.940]  Amazing spin.
[26:54.140 --> 26:56.020]  It sounds like the US media you're describing.
[26:56.020 --> 26:56.540]  Well, it does.
[26:56.560 --> 26:57.260]  And that's the point.
[26:57.420 --> 27:02.140]  We don't see it because we're not privy to the perspectives of the rest of the world or what other people are saying.
[27:02.600 --> 27:04.880]  So once you are privy to that, it becomes very obvious.
[27:05.180 --> 27:14.000]  There's another channel in that same network, Channel 134, right next to it, CCTV Channel 9, which is the Chinese English language broadcast.
[27:14.180 --> 27:17.760]  And boy, are they slanted in a rather pro-Chinese way.
[27:18.360 --> 27:19.520]  It's not surprising.
[27:19.520 --> 27:21.840]  It's what you expect from government broadcasters.
[27:21.940 --> 27:25.200]  But still, it's amusing to watch, especially with the Olympics going on.
[27:25.280 --> 27:32.940]  I love how for the Olympics they've had all this propaganda going on in China and different ways of covering certain things up.
[27:33.120 --> 27:37.980]  And, you know, I guess with most people who are getting these feeds, these videos, they're not going to know any better.
[27:38.100 --> 27:39.200]  But it's all over the internet.
[27:39.360 --> 27:41.000]  You know, this was fake or that was...
[27:41.000 --> 27:44.500]  Well, I'm surprised actually because, yes, there are the talks of the fake fireworks.
[27:44.700 --> 27:48.760]  They broadcast computer-animated fireworks over international television.
[27:48.840 --> 27:50.240]  I don't know why nobody else caught that.
[27:50.460 --> 27:52.860]  People were sitting in the stadium and filming it themselves.
[27:53.000 --> 27:54.220]  Did they not see that it was fake?
[27:54.220 --> 27:57.720]  No, what it was is that they did shoot fireworks in the stadium also.
[27:57.940 --> 27:58.060]  Right.
[27:58.160 --> 28:03.300]  But there was something about they didn't want the helicopters flying above to videotape it because they thought it would be unsafe.
[28:03.520 --> 28:08.880]  So they, for the video, the above shot of the fireworks, that was computer-generated.
[28:09.000 --> 28:09.960]  But it actually did happen.
[28:10.060 --> 28:12.640]  Well, they say it was because the weather wasn't very good.
[28:12.980 --> 28:13.280]  No, no.
[28:13.320 --> 28:16.120]  That they were actually, they were shooting rockets into the clouds to make the weather.
[28:16.120 --> 28:22.960]  And then you have the girl who was singing the patriotic song who actually wasn't singing it because the other girl was ugly or something and she was in the background.
[28:23.080 --> 28:23.280]  Her teeth were messed up.
[28:23.400 --> 28:23.900]  Her teeth were messed up.
[28:23.980 --> 28:30.540]  Okay, so, but the thing is, the thing that's interesting is that they are talking about this in Chinese media and in various places in China.
[28:30.720 --> 28:31.560]  They're debating it.
[28:31.660 --> 28:32.820]  So it's gotten out at least.
[28:32.940 --> 28:38.940]  They also have these walls that say like One World or something on them and then behind them is like really bad like hovels and stuff.
[28:39.100 --> 28:39.340]  Uh-huh.
[28:39.420 --> 28:40.080]  I saw that photo.
[28:40.400 --> 28:40.480]  Yeah.
[28:41.360 --> 28:41.480]  Wow.
[28:41.540 --> 28:44.040]  You mean the old houses they're destroying?
[28:44.340 --> 28:44.700]  Yeah, right.
[28:44.700 --> 28:45.460]  Those are very nice, actually.
[28:45.460 --> 28:46.480]  They're hidden behind these walls.
[28:46.660 --> 28:48.740]  I walked through one of those old neighborhoods when I was in Beijing.
[28:48.920 --> 28:50.600]  It was the most pleasant part of Beijing.
[28:50.740 --> 28:51.340]  And of course, that's...
[28:51.340 --> 28:53.320]  The fireworks were just some safety concern, supposedly.
[28:53.560 --> 28:55.540]  They did shoot fireworks off during the actual ceremony.
[28:55.680 --> 28:55.860]  Uh-huh.
[28:56.040 --> 28:59.400]  I just have one question which is when can I stop hearing about the Olympics?
[28:59.840 --> 29:04.720]  Right when the conventions start and that's when you get to find out how wonderful the American media is.
[29:04.820 --> 29:10.740]  So the American fireworks which are different from the Chinese fireworks because they're not only real but they're directed at humans.
[29:11.800 --> 29:13.800]  That's what you're saying will be the replacement?
[29:13.980 --> 29:14.620]  Pretty much, yeah.
[29:14.700 --> 29:16.960]  And I should also point out this might be as good a time as any.
[29:17.100 --> 29:21.700]  We're not going to be on for those two weeks of the Democratic convention and the Republican convention.
[29:22.000 --> 29:25.640]  And that actually is two weeks from tonight when the Democrats start.
[29:26.040 --> 29:28.100]  So let me point out some scheduling issues.
[29:28.220 --> 29:31.000]  We have one more show and then we're not on for the Democratic convention.
[29:31.000 --> 29:33.060]  We're not on for the Republican convention the week after that.
[29:33.240 --> 29:36.280]  When we come back, guess what it's time for?
[29:36.840 --> 29:37.400]  That's right.
[29:37.480 --> 29:38.220]  Another fundraiser.
[29:38.420 --> 29:38.620]  Oh, wow.
[29:38.780 --> 29:40.160]  This is the autumn fundraiser.
[29:40.160 --> 29:44.200]  See, the last fundraiser I missed because I participated by telephone but I'm really excited.
[29:44.200 --> 29:45.080]  That was a mini-thon.
[29:45.220 --> 29:45.760]  That was a mini-thon.
[29:45.840 --> 29:52.800]  But this one is one of the big ones like the spring one and it goes for four weeks and we're on all four weeks again.
[29:52.960 --> 29:54.840]  So hopefully we'll do well.
[29:55.120 --> 29:55.600]  All right.
[29:55.860 --> 29:56.340]  Would be nice.
[29:56.500 --> 29:56.940]  Go ahead, Reddick.
[29:56.980 --> 30:03.380]  You know what's interesting about the whole convention and the Democratic race anyway is that I got a...
[30:03.380 --> 30:04.640]  Are you bringing politics into the show?
[30:04.760 --> 30:05.120]  A little bit.
[30:05.160 --> 30:05.440]  Oh, no.
[30:05.680 --> 30:06.800]  No, this is technology.
[30:06.920 --> 30:07.200]  Go ahead.
[30:07.200 --> 30:10.960]  I got an email from Barack Obama or from some staffer there telling me...
[30:10.960 --> 30:11.980]  Yeah, he keeps telling me too.
[30:12.120 --> 30:12.680]  What's up with that?
[30:12.800 --> 30:13.900]  He doesn't have other things to do?
[30:14.100 --> 30:20.280]  But telling me that I could be one of the first people to know who the vice presidential nominee is because he will either email me or text me.
[30:21.050 --> 30:24.020]  Barack Obama's going to text you who the vice presidential candidate is.
[30:24.020 --> 30:24.480]  That's right.
[30:24.920 --> 30:25.680]  Just me, I think.
[30:25.760 --> 30:27.140]  I don't think he sent that to anyone else.
[30:28.320 --> 30:28.680]  All right.
[30:28.680 --> 30:29.320]  I don't want to speed out.
[30:29.400 --> 30:33.700]  No, apparently this is how he plans to announce his vice presidential candidate.
[30:33.700 --> 30:35.240]  So, I think that's interesting, actually.
[30:35.420 --> 30:38.080]  It's also how he plans to bring down the infrastructure of the U.S.
[30:38.200 --> 30:39.760]  because imagine sending that out.
[30:39.880 --> 30:44.160]  Everybody's, like, texting each other what the name is and false names are going out.
[30:45.120 --> 30:45.480]  Mayhem.
[30:45.720 --> 30:46.700]  So, you're signed up for this.
[30:46.900 --> 30:48.200]  No, I haven't signed up for the text.
[30:48.320 --> 30:49.480]  I will get the email, though.
[30:49.540 --> 30:50.640]  I suppose I could sign up for the text.
[30:50.640 --> 30:52.960]  Sign up for the text in case you're away from something that gets email.
[30:52.960 --> 30:53.920]  Not that you ever are.
[30:53.920 --> 30:55.060]  of the show and I'll be able to know.
[30:56.670 --> 30:57.160]  All right.
[30:57.800 --> 31:04.200]  But I thought that was an interesting use of technology for this nomination, especially since I think that kind of caters to, like, the younger people.
[31:04.320 --> 31:05.540]  Well, I mean, is it really that unusual?
[31:05.900 --> 31:11.140]  Weren't there certain religious groups that would beat people when the second coming was happening so that they wouldn't miss it?
[31:12.280 --> 31:18.500]  People had pagers back in the 80s and they were all synced up to get special messages.
[31:18.780 --> 31:22.680]  So, this is kind of inevitable, especially when people are paying for texting.
[31:22.960 --> 31:24.280]  You know, it's a lot of money to be made.
[31:24.800 --> 31:25.400]  It's true.
[31:26.040 --> 31:27.120]  You forgot something.
[31:27.280 --> 31:29.420]  Something you've been wanting to mention for the past, like, month.
[31:30.100 --> 31:31.520]  Is this our little story?
[31:31.660 --> 31:31.820]  Yes.
[31:31.820 --> 31:34.160]  Okay, we're going to get to that, but Bernie has something first.
[31:34.700 --> 31:45.680]  I just was wondering when somebody's going to spoof these Barack Obama text messages to convince everybody that John Edwards will be the vice presidential running You know, I don't even want to get into that.
[31:46.060 --> 31:48.880]  On the other radio show, I was saying, you know, that's a logical choice.
[31:49.120 --> 31:50.360]  That's where they...
[31:50.360 --> 31:51.920]  And at first, he said he didn't want to run.
[31:52.020 --> 31:55.460]  Then he was changing his mind, so I was convinced that it was my listeners that were doing it.
[31:55.460 --> 31:58.940]  And then, then last week, yet another sex scandal.
[31:59.140 --> 32:00.160]  I mean, it's just unbelievable.
[32:00.420 --> 32:02.040]  Just politics in this country.
[32:02.520 --> 32:03.200]  It's so funny.
[32:03.280 --> 32:05.240]  At least we know the politicians are having a good time.
[32:05.440 --> 32:09.140]  Well, we also know John Edwards is not going to be the vice president of Canada, but never mind that.
[32:09.460 --> 32:21.020]  Okay, so Dot Red, yes, we did have a bit of an adventure the other day where we were walking into a building or walking out of a building and we noticed somebody in the lobby.
[32:21.140 --> 32:22.220]  Who was the person we noticed in the lobby?
[32:22.340 --> 32:24.440]  That was a male person.
[32:24.580 --> 32:25.040]  Male person.
[32:25.500 --> 32:26.500]  A postal person.
[32:26.600 --> 32:27.780]  Yes, a postal person.
[32:27.840 --> 32:29.560]  M-A-I-L not M-A-L-E.
[32:30.000 --> 32:30.320]  Right.
[32:30.480 --> 32:30.620]  Right.
[32:30.740 --> 32:32.480]  Because it was a female male person.
[32:32.480 --> 32:34.840]  Well, now, okay, now we know more than we need to know about the person.
[32:34.960 --> 32:38.560]  Well, although it couldn't possibly be a M-A-L-E if it was a female.
[32:38.860 --> 32:42.080]  Exactly, but how much time do we want to spend pointing this out?
[32:42.400 --> 32:50.680]  The point is, the important issue here is that we asked, not in a confrontational way, just out of curiosity, how did you get into the building?
[32:50.920 --> 32:52.160]  How do you get into all these buildings?
[32:52.320 --> 32:54.920]  Do you have keys to every single building in the neighborhood?
[32:55.120 --> 32:56.660]  And she answered.
[32:56.960 --> 33:02.120]  Well, first of all, we want to specify the apartment buildings that have those walls full of mailboxes.
[33:02.460 --> 33:04.200]  Those silver mailboxes.
[33:04.580 --> 33:08.400]  There's one key for those that just opens up all the mailboxes and they drop all the mail in.
[33:08.460 --> 33:11.340]  Yes, there's one key for those and apparently there's one key for all the buildings.
[33:11.520 --> 33:12.880]  Yeah, one key.
[33:13.430 --> 33:22.220]  And if you look at all these buildings on the street, you'll see Maybe next to the door or on the wall or something, there's a kind of an old-looking key.
[33:22.480 --> 33:24.440]  Maybe it's a skeleton key type of a thing?
[33:24.580 --> 33:25.500]  It looks sort of like that.
[33:25.580 --> 33:26.660]  It looked kind of like that.
[33:26.860 --> 33:29.540]  And if you turn that, it opens the front door.
[33:29.860 --> 33:33.360]  Now, did she say that she had one key for all the buildings?
[33:33.540 --> 33:35.260]  Yeah, she showed us the key, too.
[33:35.800 --> 33:36.480]  That's unbelievable.
[33:36.500 --> 33:43.000]  So if you have that key, you can get into any building, at least on one block, but maybe far more than that.
[33:43.300 --> 33:46.800]  I wasn't sure if it went even further.
[33:47.200 --> 33:49.080]  She didn't say there's any limits to this key.
[33:49.220 --> 33:50.580]  Yeah, we don't want to push it too much.
[33:50.580 --> 33:53.200]  You didn't take a picture of the key and send it to Barry to make us a copy?
[33:53.500 --> 33:54.560]  Well, you know...
[33:54.560 --> 33:55.480]  That might have been a little suspicious.
[33:55.580 --> 33:57.320]  It might have been just a tad suspicious about that.
[33:57.360 --> 33:58.640]  We can watch out for them next time.
[33:58.780 --> 33:59.420]  You'll have the camera.
[33:59.520 --> 34:00.120]  Voltaire, what do you have?
[34:00.140 --> 34:02.440]  And how much are you asking for pledges to get this key?
[34:04.420 --> 34:04.700]  Well...
[34:04.700 --> 34:05.860]  Yeah, that could be a bit touchy.
[34:06.900 --> 34:08.060]  But I'd like to know.
[34:08.160 --> 34:09.140]  Mike, do you know anything about this?
[34:09.200 --> 34:10.920]  Because you used to live in a building sort of similar to that.
[34:10.980 --> 34:13.400]  Yeah, but my building had no lock on the frontmost door.
[34:13.520 --> 34:13.920]  Oh, really?
[34:14.840 --> 34:17.220]  So anyone could just wander into that lobby.
[34:17.360 --> 34:18.380]  That makes it sort of simple.
[34:18.500 --> 34:22.380]  But many buildings do have locks in their doors these days.
[34:22.580 --> 34:27.100]  And it's just kind of weird to think that one person has access to all those buildings.
[34:27.140 --> 34:28.740]  And you have to wonder, how do the cops get in?
[34:28.820 --> 34:29.940]  Because cops always get in.
[34:30.260 --> 34:30.680]  How do they get in?
[34:30.860 --> 34:32.200]  Maybe they throw themselves at the door.
[34:32.380 --> 34:33.460]  That's how they get into your apartment.
[34:34.600 --> 34:39.440]  Maybe that's a whole set of services use that one keyhole.
[34:40.140 --> 34:40.780]  Cops, firemen...
[34:40.780 --> 34:42.020]  No, firemen just use axes.
[34:42.300 --> 34:43.080]  Yeah, they like axes.
[34:43.100 --> 34:46.600]  Well, depending on the circumstances, the cops might be able to just get a key from the landlord.
[34:47.320 --> 34:48.660]  But what if the landlord's not home?
[34:49.100 --> 34:50.280]  Yeah, there's all sorts of possibilities.
[34:50.380 --> 34:51.320]  Bernie, what do they do in Philadelphia?
[34:51.320 --> 34:51.680]  Do you know?
[34:52.280 --> 34:55.440]  I have talked to the mail carrier at my building.
[34:55.700 --> 34:59.720]  And she's also a she mail carrier.
[35:01.280 --> 35:07.080]  She has a code that she enters into the electronic doorbox system that gets her into this building.
[35:07.460 --> 35:11.300]  And she says for other buildings, she has a key or a code.
[35:11.500 --> 35:17.120]  But what I'm curious about is if this is one key for that whole block that you're talking about, what is it?
[35:17.220 --> 35:20.200]  Does it go to an electronic solenoid block?
[35:20.200 --> 35:24.380]  Because different buildings have different types of keyways for different types of locks.
[35:24.520 --> 35:26.760]  So there's no one key that could fit in all those keyways.
[35:26.960 --> 35:30.540]  Yeah, well, it looked like it was the same lock attached to all the buildings.
[35:30.620 --> 35:32.940]  And, of course, I didn't have the ability to turn it myself.
[35:32.940 --> 35:34.240]  So I don't know if it's...
[35:34.880 --> 35:37.080]  I mean, it didn't look very old, actually.
[35:37.260 --> 35:37.880]  Yeah, it looked old.
[35:37.960 --> 35:39.440]  It didn't look electronic in any way.
[35:39.540 --> 35:40.460]  It was rusty.
[35:40.660 --> 35:41.020]  It could be wrong, but...
[35:41.020 --> 35:41.280]  Yeah.
[35:41.920 --> 35:42.700]  I mean, I'd like to...
[35:42.700 --> 35:52.120]  What I'll do is I'll lay in wait for the postman or postwoman in a day or so and see just what kind of noise it makes when they open the door.
[35:52.460 --> 35:54.080]  Or maybe one of our listeners can do the same thing.
[35:54.380 --> 35:55.260]  Our listeners...
[35:55.260 --> 35:57.440]  Emmanuel, what I meant was not...
[35:57.440 --> 36:02.980]  It wasn't an electronic key, but was it a mechanical key that turned a key switch...
[36:02.980 --> 36:03.200]  Yes.
[36:03.620 --> 36:06.360]  ...that then tripped a solenoid that then opened the door?
[36:06.900 --> 36:07.900]  Is it one of those deals?
[36:07.900 --> 36:09.520]  Well, again, I didn't see it.
[36:09.940 --> 36:11.820]  The lock is not next to the door.
[36:11.960 --> 36:13.020]  It's like on the side of the wall.
[36:13.180 --> 36:15.660]  So I imagine it must be hooked up in some way.
[36:15.760 --> 36:25.340]  So this master key that the postal carrier is carrying operates a key switch, which then electrically opens the doors.
[36:25.460 --> 36:25.980]  That's my...
[36:25.980 --> 36:28.280]  I think that's a good theory, yes.
[36:28.520 --> 36:28.780]  Okay.
[36:28.780 --> 36:36.880]  Now, everybody who does maintenance for all these buildings would have to have access to...
[36:36.880 --> 36:38.420]  You know, because they installed the lock.
[36:38.940 --> 36:40.940]  In other words, a lot of people have this key.
[36:41.960 --> 36:42.320]  Yeah.
[36:42.560 --> 36:48.420]  Now, I should also point out a lot of buildings have secondary doors, too, that also require a key, sometimes the same key as the first door.
[36:48.680 --> 36:51.840]  And I guess they couldn't get past that if they have a second door.
[36:51.920 --> 36:53.580]  A lot of buildings don't have a second door, though.
[36:54.240 --> 36:59.820]  But I imagine, you know, if you have an apartment anywhere in New York, just wouldn't it be a lot simpler to have, you know, one key?
[36:59.940 --> 37:02.540]  That way, if you move, it cuts down on expenses.
[37:02.900 --> 37:08.020]  With closing costs and all that, you know, not having to buy a second key, just every little bit counts.
[37:09.280 --> 37:11.560]  Usually, they throw that in when you move.
[37:11.660 --> 37:11.800]  Sometimes.
[37:11.800 --> 37:12.540]  They give you a key.
[37:12.680 --> 37:13.800]  They're cutting back these days.
[37:14.260 --> 37:23.140]  If you have information on this, well, you can either call us in a few minutes, 212-209-2900, or you can write to us, OTH at 2600.com is our email address.
[37:23.580 --> 37:26.740]  With your observations, maybe they do it differently in your city or country.
[37:26.960 --> 37:28.240]  It's entirely possible.
[37:29.300 --> 37:30.200]  Google News.
[37:30.360 --> 37:31.660]  We have some Google News this week.
[37:31.740 --> 37:34.320]  And this is a fun bit from the BBC.
[37:34.720 --> 37:39.440]  Google has been accused of hypocrisy over its stance on personal privacy.
[37:39.960 --> 37:40.540]  That's right.
[37:40.640 --> 37:41.360]  In court documents...
[37:41.360 --> 37:41.640]  That's news?
[37:42.080 --> 37:42.980]  Well, yeah.
[37:43.200 --> 37:44.540]  This particular case is news.
[37:44.960 --> 37:52.920]  In court documents defending a lawsuit brought against its Street View mapping tool, it has asserted that complete privacy does not exist.
[37:53.580 --> 37:55.580]  But, uh, points out the U.S.
[37:56.040 --> 38:05.980]  National Legal and Policy Center, the NLPC, it responded to a Californian politician's concerns about its growth by saying that it takes privacy very seriously.
[38:06.620 --> 38:12.060]  Google's hypocrisy is breathtaking, said Ken Baum, chairman of the NLPC.
[38:12.540 --> 38:16.600]  Perhaps in Google's world, privacy does not exist, said Mr. Baum.
[38:16.800 --> 38:23.580]  But in the real world, individual privacy is fundamentally important and is being chipped away bit by bit every day by companies like Google.
[38:23.860 --> 38:30.360]  The assertion about privacy came in court papers Google filed in response to a lawsuit from Aaron and Christine Boring.
[38:33.360 --> 38:37.700]  I'm sorry, but I'm not going to get through this story with, have a last name like Boring.
[38:37.960 --> 38:40.360]  You know, it's the Boring House, the Boring Lives.
[38:40.960 --> 38:41.520]  Why?
[38:41.880 --> 38:44.480]  The Boring couple launched their...
[38:44.480 --> 38:46.020]  See, it's very difficult.
[38:47.220 --> 38:53.880]  They launched their legal action when images of their Boring home in Pennsylvania appeared on Street View.
[38:54.400 --> 39:02.920]  The photo mapping system uses cars fitted with cameras to catch images of real world locations that are added to its online maps.
[39:03.520 --> 39:05.940]  According to the Boring's, Google's...
[39:05.940 --> 39:07.420]  Come on, we can't laugh every time we say the name.
[39:07.680 --> 39:15.360]  Google's reckless conduct in driving down a private road and publishing the photos caused mental suffering and hurt the value of their home.
[39:15.560 --> 39:18.460]  Now, how does it hurt the value of their home to have a picture of it on Google?
[39:18.520 --> 39:19.180]  That's why I don't understand.
[39:19.380 --> 39:22.660]  It hurts the value of their home so they can claim that they have monetary damages.
[39:22.660 --> 39:26.260]  That would help the value of their bank account, but not hurt the value of their home.
[39:26.440 --> 39:29.220]  They're seeking damages of more than $25,000.
[39:29.860 --> 39:34.320]  Sounds like a very valuable home, quite frankly, if you can get $25,000 just for a picture of it.
[39:34.320 --> 39:34.740]  Where is this?
[39:34.840 --> 39:35.660]  Is it in the middle of nowhere?
[39:35.840 --> 39:39.780]  This is, I believe, in Pennsylvania someplace.
[39:39.880 --> 39:40.300]  It doesn't say where.
[39:40.640 --> 39:47.860]  In its court documents, Google said today's satellite image technology means that even in today's desert, complete privacy does not exist.
[39:48.320 --> 39:52.520]  In any event, plaintiffs live far away from the desert and are far from hermits.
[39:52.660 --> 39:54.660]  They are boring, though, but they're not hermits.
[39:54.800 --> 39:55.040]  I'm sorry.
[39:55.140 --> 39:56.340]  That was my last boring joke.
[39:56.820 --> 40:09.440]  Google claims in its motion that when plaintiffs discovered these images, rather than using the simple removal option that Google affords, they sued Google for invasion of privacy, trespass, negligence, and conversion.
[40:09.700 --> 40:10.320]  What's conversion?
[40:11.060 --> 40:11.860]  Do you know, Mike?
[40:13.040 --> 40:17.340]  If it's like a mile away, you might want to know that that's 1.6 kilometers.
[40:17.340 --> 40:19.220]  Why would you sue somebody for that?
[40:19.340 --> 40:20.780]  You know, that's the silliest thing ever.
[40:21.200 --> 40:22.580]  I'm sure we'll get mail about this, too.
[40:22.780 --> 40:28.960]  Investigative news website, The Smoking Gun, has put the Google court papers online, and no doubt a picture of the boring house as well.
[40:29.620 --> 40:35.480]  Google removed the photos of the boring home and swimming pool from Street View after the couple filed its lawsuit in April.
[40:35.700 --> 40:36.540]  Oh, they had a swimming pool.
[40:37.180 --> 40:38.760]  Yeah, and apparently that added to the trouble.
[40:38.760 --> 40:40.780]  None of the whole world knows about their swimming pool.
[40:40.840 --> 40:42.860]  Yeah, this hasn't really worked to their advantage, has this?
[40:42.900 --> 40:44.280]  No, they are boring, and they have a swimming pool.
[40:44.300 --> 40:46.140]  The thing about it is that, I mean, you can't...
[40:46.660 --> 40:49.820]  We've always said that if you're on the street and you take a picture, that's legal, right?
[40:49.820 --> 40:51.160]  If I want to take a picture of the Brooklyn...
[40:51.160 --> 40:53.540]  You know, there's a whole thing about not being able to take a picture of bridges.
[40:53.900 --> 40:58.580]  We got into a three-hour debate about this after the last 2600 meeting.
[40:58.880 --> 41:00.100]  But if it's on public...
[41:00.100 --> 41:03.080]  If the picture's taken on public property, then it's public.
[41:03.260 --> 41:04.660]  Okay, you know, I don't know.
[41:04.660 --> 41:08.260]  Well, Daria, we talked about this on A Street for a few hours in the early morning hours.
[41:08.540 --> 41:16.820]  And I was saying how insane I thought it was that somebody could tell you that you cannot take a picture of their building from the outside.
[41:17.340 --> 41:19.200]  And you actually seem to see some...
[41:19.200 --> 41:22.960]  I mean, you don't agree with it, but you seem to see some legal logic in it, right?
[41:23.540 --> 41:26.440]  Well, that's just the current legal environment, but...
[41:26.440 --> 41:27.200]  Of insanity.
[41:27.380 --> 41:27.720]  Yes.
[41:27.980 --> 41:28.960]  Not being able to take a picture.
[41:29.060 --> 41:34.340]  Because when we were filming Freedom Downtime, we were told several times, you can't film inside this building because it's a landmark.
[41:34.560 --> 41:36.480]  You can't film this prison because it's a prison.
[41:36.920 --> 41:45.140]  And have people changed where they actually believe that if someone tells you you can't take a picture of something that's outside, that that somehow has legal bearing?
[41:45.300 --> 41:49.360]  I don't think the constitutional protection of privacy covers that.
[41:49.480 --> 41:52.800]  So you can take a picture if you're on public roads and all that.
[41:52.960 --> 41:55.300]  But people have taken it a lot further.
[41:56.060 --> 41:56.580]  It's...
[41:56.580 --> 41:58.740]  I don't want you taking pictures of my building.
[41:58.740 --> 42:00.640]  If it's in there somehow, blur it.
[42:00.760 --> 42:01.300]  Red hack first.
[42:01.800 --> 42:02.400]  Here's the thing.
[42:02.560 --> 42:06.020]  So if it's from public property, it should be public, the image.
[42:06.140 --> 42:10.280]  And the thing is, if you raise a fuss about it, then people are just going to talk about it and your image will be everywhere.
[42:10.460 --> 42:10.580]  Right.
[42:10.680 --> 42:13.660]  They make it very easy to report something and say, I want this removed.
[42:14.200 --> 42:16.940]  So, you know, obviously these people are just in it for money.
[42:17.160 --> 42:19.480]  You know, they think, hey, we have a chance to sue them because...
[42:19.480 --> 42:25.420]  Now, if the truck had driven down a road marked private, I could see maybe they have a case there because that's their property then.
[42:25.420 --> 42:32.340]  But if it was from a public street, even if it's some sort of, you know, circle or something, then I don't really think they have a case there.
[42:32.580 --> 42:36.440]  Well, they do say that Google drove down a private road.
[42:36.740 --> 42:36.920]  Right.
[42:36.920 --> 42:38.660]  So if the road was private, that's one thing.
[42:38.800 --> 42:41.400]  But, you know, they could be saying that, well, it's our little...
[42:41.400 --> 42:42.460]  What are those things called?
[42:42.460 --> 42:47.580]  Now, I have a question because Google is really big, so most people know about them.
[42:47.580 --> 42:59.200]  But this sort of opt-out mentality is kind of dangerous because what if a lot of companies start taking pictures and the borings want to be out of all the databases?
[42:59.200 --> 43:13.360]  I think they should have a way to opt out of all the databases or choose not to opt into all the databases without having to somehow synthesize for themselves a complete list of where exactly every database is.
[43:13.360 --> 43:14.660]  Well, we know that doesn't exist at this point.
[43:14.660 --> 43:18.080]  I mean, there's plenty of databases that we're all in that we didn't opt into.
[43:18.180 --> 43:19.060]  Yeah, I don't like that.
[43:19.380 --> 43:19.640]  Rob T.
[43:19.720 --> 43:20.220]  Firefly has something.
[43:20.480 --> 43:20.640]  Yeah.
[43:20.920 --> 43:26.080]  Wasn't there a similar case sometime back with the Flatiron building here in New York where they didn't want to...
[43:26.080 --> 43:27.820]  I seem to remember it was the Flatiron building.
[43:27.900 --> 43:30.860]  They didn't want people to take pictures of it, but they wanted to sell postcards of it.
[43:30.900 --> 43:35.320]  Well, that's on the front page of the front cover of 2600, this issue, that building.
[43:36.320 --> 43:37.020]  Did I say that?
[43:37.180 --> 43:37.880]  Yeah, never mind.
[43:37.920 --> 43:38.440]  Not that building.
[43:38.680 --> 43:39.300]  Bernie, what do you have?
[43:39.860 --> 43:43.960]  I was going to say that the term conversion is a legal term of art.
[43:44.660 --> 44:04.060]  Meaning, basically, that if you took something that wasn't yours and then used it to make money, and since Google, arguably, Google Street Maps is the name of the service, I forget, that that is a commercial service that they make money from advertising and so forth.
[44:04.060 --> 44:14.200]  And they used these people's home, this home from their private practice, a picture taken from their private property to make money, that there is grounds there.
[44:14.360 --> 44:16.040]  And it's the term of art is called conversion.
[44:16.040 --> 44:16.800]  That's where that comes from.
[44:17.000 --> 44:22.780]  Well, I feel a lot less sorry for these people than for the guy in Australia who the van took a picture of passed out on his lawn.
[44:23.680 --> 44:24.080]  Yeah.
[44:24.200 --> 44:25.260]  You know, that's some interesting thing.
[44:25.380 --> 44:26.340]  Are these real pictures?
[44:26.460 --> 44:28.460]  You see some guy stealing a car.
[44:28.460 --> 44:29.720]  You see all sorts of...
[44:29.720 --> 44:31.620]  Yeah, people find them or...
[44:31.620 --> 44:32.200]  It's great.
[44:32.260 --> 44:32.860]  I mean, it's just...
[44:32.860 --> 44:33.540]  It's a day in the life of America.
[44:33.540 --> 44:34.600]  There was somebody getting arrested in one.
[44:34.740 --> 44:35.060]  This is...
[44:35.060 --> 44:36.660]  Like, when Street View launched, this was crazy.
[44:36.760 --> 44:38.420]  People were just looking all over the place.
[44:38.440 --> 44:39.540]  The best Street View ever.
[44:39.840 --> 44:44.280]  You go to the Hotel Pennsylvania, which is 410 7th Avenue.
[44:44.320 --> 44:44.840]  Write this down.
[44:44.980 --> 44:46.660]  410 7th Avenue, New York, New York.
[44:46.820 --> 44:47.060]  Okay?
[44:47.780 --> 44:48.780]  And you go there.
[44:48.840 --> 44:49.540]  You go to Street View.
[44:49.900 --> 44:52.140]  And then you start driving down 7th Avenue.
[44:52.220 --> 44:53.000]  Just follow the little arrow.
[44:53.100 --> 44:56.640]  Go down 7th Avenue until the streets start going down.
[44:57.220 --> 44:58.420]  And you'll see a cop car.
[44:59.340 --> 45:00.880]  You'll see a police car driving down the street.
[45:01.980 --> 45:02.840]  Look at that police car.
[45:02.940 --> 45:03.620]  Look carefully at it.
[45:03.640 --> 45:05.620]  You might have to click a few times to go down the street.
[45:05.720 --> 45:07.780]  But take a look at the number on that police car.
[45:07.840 --> 45:08.760]  We're not going to tell you what it is.
[45:08.920 --> 45:09.920]  I think you've said it before.
[45:10.220 --> 45:11.160]  Have I said it on the radio?
[45:11.220 --> 45:11.720]  I think so.
[45:11.840 --> 45:12.020]  Really?
[45:12.240 --> 45:12.420]  Okay.
[45:12.640 --> 45:13.760]  Well, it bears repeating.
[45:14.280 --> 45:16.100]  So that's the coolest thing I found.
[45:16.120 --> 45:17.160]  And that was totally by accident.
[45:17.240 --> 45:17.840]  What are the odds?
[45:18.000 --> 45:18.880]  What are the odds of that?
[45:19.860 --> 45:20.140]  Okay.
[45:20.320 --> 45:22.180]  And if you don't know what it is, we'll tell you maybe next week.
[45:23.140 --> 45:34.420]  Google's comments to the court, by the way, irked the NLPC, which it said came as the search giant asserted a robust defense of its privacy policies to Joel Anderson, who is a Republican member of California's State Assembly.
[45:35.240 --> 45:44.560]  Mr. Anderson aired his worries about the effect a search advertising tie-up between Yahoo and Google would have on personal privacy in a letter to Jerry Brown, who happens to be California's attorney general.
[45:44.760 --> 45:47.180]  He used to host a radio program in this station, in fact.
[45:47.420 --> 45:56.940]  In an effort to turn the tables on Google, the NLPC compiled a comprehensive amount of personal information on an unnamed Google executive in less than 30 minutes.
[45:57.080 --> 46:05.200]  It included the license plates of cars outside the individual's home, the landscaping company the exec uses, and even the name of the next-door neighbor's security company.
[46:05.660 --> 46:11.340]  The center used Google Street View and Google Earth to gather all the necessary information, which it released publicly.
[46:11.340 --> 46:15.800]  It said to highlight the invasiveness of these technologies to individual privacy.
[46:16.000 --> 46:21.620]  The fact that every American is now subject to this type of scrutiny with a click of a mouse is frightening.
[46:21.860 --> 46:25.540]  Wait, if they release the information publicly, why did they have to leave the executive unnamed?
[46:26.500 --> 46:27.860]  That's a good question.
[46:27.860 --> 46:28.320]  I don't know.
[46:28.520 --> 46:28.960]  I'm not sure.
[46:30.320 --> 46:32.340]  Maybe just out of pity or something like that.
[46:32.540 --> 46:36.460]  Okay, so that's some of what's happening in the world of Google, which I think is kind of interesting.
[46:36.640 --> 46:39.940]  And it draws a few questions as to what is private and what is not private.
[46:40.700 --> 46:42.980]  And I imagine this debate will be going on for quite some time.
[46:43.620 --> 46:47.000]  Please join us in our conversation, 212-209-2900.
[46:47.000 --> 46:50.120]  And we have a few minutes left, and we'd like to hear from our listeners.
[46:51.080 --> 46:54.180]  Any other comments from the people while I reach for the phone?
[46:55.840 --> 46:56.520]  Oops, sorry.
[46:56.520 --> 46:57.360]  I didn't mean to hit the button.
[46:57.580 --> 46:59.800]  In fact, I don't know why the button made that noise.
[47:00.000 --> 47:00.740]  Oh, that was you, Bernie.
[47:01.560 --> 47:02.280]  No, it wasn't me.
[47:02.340 --> 47:02.660]  It wasn't me?
[47:02.860 --> 47:03.440]  It wasn't you, rather?
[47:03.800 --> 47:04.260]  It wasn't me.
[47:05.040 --> 47:06.380]  Oh, yeah, I can hit buttons.
[47:06.480 --> 47:06.660]  Okay.
[47:06.780 --> 47:07.700]  I didn't realize I could do that.
[47:07.880 --> 47:08.660]  Let's take a phone call.
[47:08.820 --> 47:10.560]  212-209-2900.
[47:11.320 --> 47:11.860]  Good evening.
[47:12.160 --> 47:13.240]  You're on Off the Hook.
[47:13.240 --> 47:23.160]  Yeah, um, uh, isn't there signs on every bridge stuck in New York and the New York City area saying you cannot take pictures of this bridge, like the Throgs Neck Bridge or the Lincoln Tunnel or the...
[47:23.680 --> 47:24.500]  That's correct, Rebel.
[47:24.660 --> 47:27.760]  You can't take pictures of bridges, yet in other public structures.
[47:28.000 --> 47:30.200]  Those are actually some of my favorite things on Google Street View.
[47:30.420 --> 47:36.240]  If you, uh, if you look at the pictures of the bridges, you can see the Google Street View camera taking pictures of the signs that say no photography allowed.
[47:37.520 --> 47:41.960]  I guess, you know, they could be held up as promoting terrorism then for doing that.
[47:41.960 --> 47:45.580]  And not only can you get street views, but you can get aerial views of these structures as well.
[47:45.780 --> 47:46.040]  Wow.
[47:46.700 --> 47:48.880]  It's like nothing the government says matters anymore.
[47:49.140 --> 47:51.660]  You know, for that, I have to give Google credit for that.
[47:51.780 --> 47:55.500]  I feel like you could go to a library and probably dig up the plans for the bridges that you really wanted.
[47:55.500 --> 47:57.600]  Yeah, but what kind of people go to libraries these days?
[47:57.720 --> 47:58.080]  Terrorists.
[47:58.200 --> 47:58.620]  Yeah, exactly.
[47:59.600 --> 48:00.080]  All right.
[48:00.120 --> 48:00.440]  Good evening.
[48:00.560 --> 48:01.200]  You're on Off the Hook.
[48:01.740 --> 48:02.680]  Oh, hey, gentlemen.
[48:02.980 --> 48:13.840]  Um, the key that the postal carrier has opens a box called a key keeper, and inside is the key to the building that they take out, open the door with, drop the mail off, and then come back out and put the key back.
[48:14.200 --> 48:14.940]  All right, wait a minute.
[48:14.960 --> 48:17.160]  You're saying if you turn that key, it opens a...
[48:17.160 --> 48:18.620]  It's a box with a key in it.
[48:18.700 --> 48:19.860]  This sounds like an adventure game.
[48:20.260 --> 48:20.580]  Yeah.
[48:20.860 --> 48:22.660]  Where is this box located?
[48:22.920 --> 48:24.340]  It's on the outside of the building.
[48:24.460 --> 48:24.860]  It has...
[48:24.860 --> 48:28.560]  It's like a little box outside the front door of the building.
[48:28.660 --> 48:29.380]  I have it on my building.
[48:29.520 --> 48:32.120]  I had it on, you know, Lower East Side, all over the place in this city.
[48:32.820 --> 48:34.640]  Um, I think I know what he's talking about.
[48:34.640 --> 48:35.220]  Yeah, when I've...
[48:35.220 --> 48:38.680]  When we've normally seen these keyholes, they normally are on a metal panel.
[48:38.880 --> 48:39.100]  Right.
[48:39.380 --> 48:42.260]  But some of these keyholes, I don't remember seeing a metal panel behind them.
[48:42.340 --> 48:48.180]  I remember seeing that keyhole sometimes on the door, above or below the keyhole, sometimes off to the side with no panel.
[48:48.420 --> 48:49.920]  Maybe it works differently in different places.
[48:50.200 --> 48:51.700]  Yeah, I guess it depends, you know, on the situation.
[48:51.860 --> 48:54.740]  I mean, I imagine that if you have an electronic lock, then hey, you can do that.
[48:54.860 --> 48:58.140]  But, you know, most of the older buildings, they don't have electronic locks like that.
[48:58.280 --> 49:00.780]  So, you know, they just have a little, you know, like a regular key inside.
[49:01.380 --> 49:01.920]  Yeah, it's true.
[49:01.920 --> 49:06.800]  Any of the ones I've seen, when I was thinking of what you're talking about, it had like a box and it was a safe for the key, basically.
[49:07.640 --> 49:07.920]  Interesting.
[49:08.060 --> 49:09.560]  It could keep other things in there, too, I imagine.
[49:09.660 --> 49:12.060]  Only the postman has access to that little box?
[49:12.240 --> 49:13.880]  Well, you know, unless you have a crowbar.
[49:14.100 --> 49:14.360]  Uh-huh.
[49:14.460 --> 49:14.780]  It'd be a good way to...
[49:14.780 --> 49:16.540]  What happened to me, I had a bike stolen that way.
[49:16.700 --> 49:16.940]  Really?
[49:17.200 --> 49:17.480]  Yeah.
[49:17.720 --> 49:18.000]  Wow.
[49:18.160 --> 49:18.860]  Sorry to hear about that.
[49:19.000 --> 49:19.340]  Yeah, whatever.
[49:19.780 --> 49:20.600]  Well, thanks for the info.
[49:20.640 --> 49:21.240]  Well, take it easy.
[49:21.320 --> 49:21.600]  All right.
[49:22.040 --> 49:25.620]  It'd be funny if somebody took the key out and put in a little IOU note.
[49:26.300 --> 49:30.820]  Well, it's a great way to pass messages back and forth between various people, sort of like I have a little underground communication.
[49:30.820 --> 49:32.940]  Now we know how he found out about the key key.
[49:34.340 --> 49:35.000]  All right.
[49:35.120 --> 49:36.380]  212-209-2900.
[49:36.640 --> 49:37.000]  Good evening.
[49:37.140 --> 49:37.660]  You're on Off the Hook.
[49:37.900 --> 49:39.080]  Oh, you were on Off the Hook.
[49:39.220 --> 49:40.380]  And your chance is over.
[49:40.920 --> 49:41.600]  Good evening.
[49:41.840 --> 49:42.500]  You're on Off the Hook.
[49:42.800 --> 49:43.380]  Hi there.
[49:43.560 --> 49:43.780]  Hi.
[49:43.960 --> 49:44.200]  Hi.
[49:44.300 --> 49:54.460]  Regarding the Russian broadcasting on Time Warner, it's kind of interesting and a little funny to hear people on BAI complain about slanted broadcasting and propaganda.
[49:55.380 --> 49:56.600]  Well, everybody's slanted.
[49:57.360 --> 49:59.600]  Are you going to let us give our slanted view?
[50:00.160 --> 50:08.560]  Everybody is slanted to some degree, but it's always funny to see it in different perspectives, whether it's mainstream, whether it's a foreign nation, whether it's right here in our own studios.
[50:08.820 --> 50:10.220]  But, yeah, everyone's slanted.
[50:10.420 --> 50:11.440]  I think we admit it, though.
[50:11.860 --> 50:13.880]  Including the BBC, which I know you're partial to.
[50:14.000 --> 50:14.420]  Well, yeah.
[50:14.840 --> 50:22.460]  I just think they cover a more variety of things, and you can glean some of the story out of what they say.
[50:22.540 --> 50:24.540]  But, yeah, of course, everything is slanted to some degree.
[50:24.840 --> 50:25.640]  Oh, yes, you can.
[50:25.720 --> 50:26.380]  I agree.
[50:26.500 --> 50:27.620]  You should hear all views, too.
[50:27.820 --> 50:28.060]  All right.
[50:28.100 --> 50:28.320]  Thank you.
[50:28.320 --> 50:28.980]  Thanks for calling.
[50:29.500 --> 50:30.080]  Hey, Emmanuel.
[50:30.220 --> 50:30.700]  Yes, go ahead, Bernie.
[50:31.900 --> 50:35.140]  The listener points out something interesting about the BBC.
[50:35.380 --> 50:47.460]  I was listening to the BBC on International Shortwave many years ago when Britain was invading the Falkland Islands or fighting against Argentina for possession of the Falkland Islands.
[50:47.460 --> 50:53.080]  So I could listen to Radio Argentina and the BBC quite clearly on International Shortwave, both in English.
[50:53.080 --> 50:54.240]  And it was amazing.
[50:54.400 --> 51:01.100]  Every night I would listen to two vastly divergent views on what happened that day in the war.
[51:01.280 --> 51:09.940]  And when all the dust had settled, it became clear that the BBC had vastly misreported things.
[51:09.940 --> 51:13.660]  Now, of course, they were probably just regurgitating what the military was telling them.
[51:13.800 --> 51:26.160]  But you can't always trust, especially if it's the country that is in the middle of a conflict, you definitely can't trust their media because the first casualty in war is truth.
[51:26.160 --> 51:28.480]  Well, you know, I've heard that quote about a billion times this week.
[51:28.560 --> 51:36.580]  But one thing that somebody mentioned to me when they were watching the Russia Today broadcast, which, by the way, if you go to RussiaToday.com, you can watch the broadcast live on the Internet.
[51:37.320 --> 51:39.680]  They said, but these people are speaking with British accents.
[51:39.780 --> 51:40.820]  They sound so authoritarian.
[51:41.100 --> 51:42.760]  They sound like they really know what they're talking about.
[51:42.900 --> 51:45.040]  And that's interesting because Radio Moscow...
[51:45.040 --> 51:45.240]  Wait, wait, wait.
[51:45.600 --> 51:46.640]  Authoritarian or authoritative?
[51:46.860 --> 51:47.820]  Authoritarian and authoritative.
[51:48.080 --> 51:49.460]  But, yeah, no, you're right.
[51:49.780 --> 51:50.760]  I thought authoritarian, no.
[51:51.840 --> 51:55.260]  But Radio Moscow used to do the same thing back in the 80s and 90s.
[51:55.260 --> 51:57.080]  They broadcast England in British accents.
[51:57.280 --> 52:00.700]  People tend to trust the British accent, except for those of us who know better.
[52:01.500 --> 52:08.640]  I personally think that's the best way to get your news is actually to get from multiple points of view, each from a different direction.
[52:08.640 --> 52:13.380]  In my opinion, you take all the different points of views and the approximation is probably pretty close to the truth.
[52:13.700 --> 52:14.180]  Absolutely.
[52:14.320 --> 52:15.920]  Unless you're listening to Russia and China.
[52:16.340 --> 52:18.820]  Well, you have to listen to both sides.
[52:19.100 --> 52:20.500]  If they're talking about Russia and China respectively.
[52:20.500 --> 52:21.780]  Like they're both talking about the same event.
[52:22.800 --> 52:25.360]  And then you actually get an idea of what is actually happening.
[52:25.620 --> 52:30.560]  But within each of these countries, not just other countries, within each of these countries are different news sources.
[52:30.780 --> 52:34.640]  The thing that kind of disturbs me about all this, we don't get to see Georgian broadcast.
[52:34.880 --> 52:39.080]  There's no network that I think is available to us to let us know their perspective.
[52:39.320 --> 52:43.660]  So we have to rely on the White House to tell us their perspective, which is not really accurate, I'm sure.
[52:43.780 --> 52:47.280]  I was going to say you can watch like the American media if you want the Georgian perspective.
[52:47.440 --> 52:48.860]  I'm not really sure that is the Georgian perspective.
[52:49.360 --> 52:50.480]  That's what the Internet's for.
[52:50.820 --> 52:54.820]  Well, if you can get through, if we're not being DDoSed by somebody somewhere.
[52:55.580 --> 52:56.540]  Okay, let's take another phone call.
[52:56.600 --> 52:56.940]  Good evening.
[52:57.240 --> 52:57.940]  You're on off the hook.
[52:58.240 --> 52:58.540]  Oh, dear.
[52:59.520 --> 52:59.980]  Let's try over here.
[53:00.020 --> 53:00.300]  Good evening.
[53:00.420 --> 53:01.000]  You're on off the hook.
[53:02.280 --> 53:04.240]  Victory to the Russian army in Georgia.
[53:04.540 --> 53:05.460]  NATO out of the forest.
[53:05.460 --> 53:05.740]  All right.
[53:05.800 --> 53:06.280]  You know what?
[53:07.100 --> 53:07.420]  Proclamations.
[53:07.420 --> 53:08.480]  We don't really need any more of those.
[53:08.540 --> 53:08.840]  Good evening.
[53:08.960 --> 53:09.860]  You're on off the hook.
[53:10.060 --> 53:10.900]  Yeah, I'm talking about...
[53:10.900 --> 53:12.040]  Now, you already talked on the air.
[53:12.160 --> 53:12.700]  Don't you remember?
[53:12.760 --> 53:13.040]  Good evening.
[53:13.200 --> 53:13.980]  You're on off the hook.
[53:14.080 --> 53:14.420]  Thank you.
[53:20.480 --> 53:20.820]  All right.
[53:20.860 --> 53:21.300]  You know what?
[53:22.240 --> 53:26.880]  I want to see people call in 212-209-2900, or we're not going to take any more phone calls.
[53:27.100 --> 53:28.960]  So how about the weather we've been having recently?
[53:29.200 --> 53:29.440]  Oh, my goodness.
[53:30.480 --> 53:31.980]  Let's read a couple of letters.
[53:32.340 --> 53:35.440]  Dear God, off the hook, I've been listening to Off the Hook for several years now.
[53:35.540 --> 53:37.960]  Originally downloading from 2600, recently through the podcast.
[53:38.420 --> 53:47.800]  I just want to let you know I finally managed to make a donation to WBAI, something I've been intending to do for a while, but never managed to remember we're not listening to your show, which is a common thing.
[53:47.900 --> 53:48.580]  People don't listen to our show.
[53:48.700 --> 53:49.360]  They don't remember to contribute.
[53:50.140 --> 53:53.140]  So you can add $50 from Canada to your unofficial tally.
[53:53.320 --> 53:55.100]  Thanks for making such an interesting and fun show.
[53:55.320 --> 53:55.940]  Signed, Mike.
[53:56.120 --> 53:59.080]  Thanks very much, Mike, for your generous donation.
[53:59.680 --> 54:07.220]  Dear Off the Hook, I'm inquiring about the fundraising show on May 28th when a pledge of $125 got you a signed copy of the new Best of 2600 book.
[54:07.740 --> 54:08.780]  My credit card was charged.
[54:08.800 --> 54:13.700]  I received a thank you letter from WBAI for supporting the station, but I still haven't received the book.
[54:13.760 --> 54:15.800]  Can you let me know when the book will be sent?
[54:16.320 --> 54:16.880]  Signed, Ben.
[54:17.080 --> 54:17.620]  And Ben...
[54:17.620 --> 54:18.420]  Woonsocket, actually.
[54:18.520 --> 54:19.260]  Where is Woonsocket?
[54:19.420 --> 54:19.860]  Rhode Island.
[54:20.340 --> 54:20.820]  How about that?
[54:21.200 --> 54:22.660]  Ben, we're still processing that.
[54:22.740 --> 54:33.540]  In fact, usually what happens is by the time the next fundraiser comes around, not counting the minithon that we just had in the summer, because that was an emergency fundraiser, that's when we get around to actually sending out the premiums.
[54:33.540 --> 54:35.800]  Now, we're sending out the Best of 2600 books.
[54:36.440 --> 54:37.580]  So it's actually...
[54:37.580 --> 54:39.620]  We're getting the names of people from WBAI.
[54:39.760 --> 54:41.320]  Same goes for the DVD sets.
[54:42.060 --> 54:44.060]  Same goes for the lockpicking books.
[54:44.060 --> 54:47.480]  All of that will be made available pretty soon.
[54:47.640 --> 54:49.360]  We're getting the names, and we're going to send those out.
[54:49.440 --> 54:50.840]  We're sorry for any delays.
[54:50.980 --> 54:51.860]  It does take time.
[54:52.040 --> 54:53.560]  There's a lot of things involved.
[54:54.140 --> 54:55.600]  But we thank people for their patience.
[54:55.700 --> 54:59.100]  And most of all that we thank them for their donations, because that makes it all possible.
[54:59.960 --> 55:02.320]  Okay, we have time for one more call.
[55:02.620 --> 55:03.420]  And good evening.
[55:03.620 --> 55:04.380]  You're on Off the Hook.
[55:05.400 --> 55:05.980]  Speak up.
[55:07.200 --> 55:07.640]  Hi.
[55:08.180 --> 55:11.040]  Forgive me, I tuned in a little bit later than I usually do.
[55:11.120 --> 55:17.200]  Did you guys discuss the exploit of the MetroCard vending machine in Penn Station?
[55:18.200 --> 55:19.380]  The Specific machine?
[55:19.620 --> 55:20.600]  The MetroCard vending machine?
[55:20.660 --> 55:21.860]  Or Long Island Railroad?
[55:23.000 --> 55:26.020]  I thought it was a Metro North and a...
[55:26.020 --> 55:26.060]  Yeah.
[55:26.060 --> 55:28.300]  No, we did discuss that at the beginning of the show.
[55:28.500 --> 55:30.380]  So download it and listen to the beginning.
[55:31.020 --> 55:33.200]  And you'll hear us talk about that.
[55:33.540 --> 55:34.240]  We're out of time.
[55:34.420 --> 55:36.360]  So unfortunately, we can't take any more calls.
[55:36.640 --> 55:38.120]  But we can take your email.
[55:38.440 --> 55:40.160]  OTH at 2600.com.
[55:40.880 --> 55:41.800]  18, will you be here next week?
[55:41.800 --> 55:42.600]  Or are you gone next week?
[55:42.600 --> 55:43.400]  I'll be here next week.
[55:43.400 --> 55:43.800]  Okay, good.
[55:43.960 --> 55:44.760]  So you'll still be here.
[55:44.860 --> 55:46.000]  Maybe some more Staten Island adventures.
[55:46.900 --> 55:48.920]  And the rest of you, hopefully we'll see you as well.
[55:49.740 --> 55:53.420]  And we're going to go out with another telephone-related song.
[55:53.540 --> 55:56.640]  In fact, people keep writing in with ideas for telephone-related songs.
[55:56.720 --> 55:58.160]  We're playing them for about the next year.
[55:58.620 --> 56:02.460]  This is one from the 1970s, and it's one of my favorites.
[56:02.700 --> 56:04.620]  Manuel, did you make a note of when we started this?
[56:04.620 --> 56:05.880]  We'll know when it's been a year.
[56:05.960 --> 56:06.760]  Yes, first week of July.
[56:06.960 --> 56:07.200]  Okay.
[56:07.360 --> 56:07.680]  All right.
[56:08.800 --> 56:10.060]  See if this rings any bells.
[56:10.240 --> 56:11.160]  No pun intended.
[56:11.360 --> 56:11.580]  Good night.
[56:13.640 --> 56:45.900]  Sylvia's mother says Sylvia's busy Too busy to come to the phone Sylvia's mother says Sylvia's trying To start a new life of her own Sylvia's mother says Sylvia's happy, so why don't you leave her alone?
[56:46.960 --> 56:57.660]  And the operator says 40 cents more for the next three minutes.
[56:57.960 --> 57:05.300]  Please, Mrs. Avery, I just gotta talk to her.
[57:05.300 --> 57:09.160]  I'll only keep her a while.
[57:11.160 --> 57:16.880]  Please, Mrs. Avery, I just wanna tell her goodbye.
[57:22.700 --> 57:27.220]  Sylvia's mother says Sylvia's packing.
[57:27.600 --> 57:31.440]  She's gonna be leaving today.
[57:34.080 --> 57:42.920]  Sylvia's mother says Sylvia's marrying a fella down Galveston Way.
[57:45.900 --> 57:54.680]  Sylvia's mother says, please don't say nothing to make her start crying and stay.
[57:54.680 --> 58:06.140]  And the operator says 40 cents more for the next three minutes.
[58:06.140 --> 58:14.100]  Please, Mrs. Avery, I just gotta talk to her.
[58:14.340 --> 58:17.400]  I'll only keep her a while.
[58:19.160 --> 58:25.380]  Please, Mrs. Avery, I just wanna tell her goodbye.
[58:31.300 --> 58:35.840]  Sylvia's mother says, Sylvia's hurrying.
[58:36.120 --> 58:40.040]  She's catching the nine o'clock train.
[58:42.660 --> 58:47.100]  Sylvia's mother says, take your umbrella.
[58:47.100 --> 58:51.520]  Cause Sylvia, it's starting to rain.
[58:53.140 --> 58:58.180]  And Sylvia's mother says, thank you for calling.
[58:58.680 --> 59:02.560]  And, sir, won't you call back again?
[59:02.560 --> 59:14.220]  And the operator says 40 cents more for the next three minutes.
[59:14.720 --> 59:22.040]  Please, Mrs. Avery, I just gotta talk to her.
[59:22.040 --> 59:25.940]  I'll only keep her a while.
[59:27.560 --> 59:33.800]  Please, Mrs. Avery, I just wanna tell her goodbye.
[59:37.920 --> 59:39.520]  Tell her goodbye.
[59:40.400 --> 59:42.480]  Alright, hey, cat.
[59:43.100 --> 59:44.320]  Uh-huh, hey.
[59:44.320 --> 59:44.480]  .
[59:44.480 --> 59:44.500]  .
[59:44.500 --> 59:44.620]  .
[59:44.620 --> 59:44.880]  .