[00:00.000 --> 00:07.940]  Our technical production team at KPFA in Berkeley includes Puck Lowe, Rose Katopchi, Oscar Hernandez, and Elena Botkin-Levy.
[00:08.220 --> 00:10.980]  Our interns are Robert Loza and Peter Steen.
[00:11.180 --> 00:14.020]  From KPFK in L.A., I'm Ana Bogado.
[00:33.930 --> 00:37.050]  And you're listening to radio station WBAI New York.
[00:37.170 --> 00:38.710]  The time is just about 7 o'clock.
[00:39.030 --> 00:40.870]  Time once again for Off the Hook.
[00:52.660 --> 00:54.500]  I cut myself while shaving.
[00:55.060 --> 00:57.040]  Now I can't make a cough.
[00:57.740 --> 00:59.840]  We couldn't get much worse.
[01:02.450 --> 01:05.290]  But the best is back the worst.
[01:05.810 --> 01:07.810]  I hope that's understood.
[01:08.130 --> 01:08.810]  But the little bow!
[02:13.620 --> 02:15.260]  And very good evening to everybody.
[02:15.380 --> 02:17.000]  The program is Off the Hook.
[02:17.420 --> 02:19.820]  Emmanuel Goldstein here with you on this Wednesday evening.
[02:20.400 --> 02:22.500]  Joined tonight by Mike.
[02:22.720 --> 02:23.060]  Hi.
[02:23.720 --> 02:24.360]  Red Hat.
[02:24.510 --> 02:24.720]  Hello.
[02:25.680 --> 02:26.900]  And it looks like Rob T.
[02:27.010 --> 02:27.660]  Firefly over there.
[02:27.860 --> 02:28.280]  Good evening.
[02:28.860 --> 02:30.380]  All the way on the other side of the room is not Kevin.
[02:30.800 --> 02:31.160]  Hello.
[02:31.880 --> 02:33.160]  Down in Philadelphia is Bernie S.
[02:33.620 --> 02:34.840]  Greetings from Philadelphia.
[02:35.300 --> 02:38.600]  And in from Montreal is our friend Fred.
[02:39.000 --> 02:39.340]  Hello.
[02:39.600 --> 02:39.980]  How you doing?
[02:40.220 --> 02:40.440]  Good.
[02:40.740 --> 02:41.840]  Say something Montreal-ish.
[02:42.620 --> 02:42.860]  Salut.
[02:43.640 --> 02:44.640]  It's not obscene, is it?
[02:44.920 --> 02:45.220]  No.
[02:45.320 --> 02:45.400]  Good.
[02:45.460 --> 02:45.680]  Okay.
[02:45.680 --> 02:45.860]  Hi.
[02:46.120 --> 02:47.120]  Well, welcome.
[02:47.260 --> 02:48.700]  Welcome to our country and welcome to our show.
[02:48.900 --> 02:49.180]  Thank you.
[02:49.300 --> 02:52.160]  And welcome to all listeners, both to our country and to our show.
[02:52.160 --> 02:56.080]  So it's yet another action-packed fundraising edition of Off the Hook.
[02:56.200 --> 02:57.760]  And we want to thank everybody who called in last week.
[02:57.780 --> 03:00.480]  We made over $2,500 in one hour, which is great.
[03:00.860 --> 03:02.540]  We have to continue that momentum.
[03:02.760 --> 03:05.120]  Now, we got a lot of mail like we always do, right, Mike?
[03:05.340 --> 03:06.460]  People are saying that...
[03:06.460 --> 03:07.060]  So sad.
[03:07.220 --> 03:08.480]  That I missed it.
[03:08.500 --> 03:09.200]  I missed the show.
[03:09.340 --> 03:10.120]  I want to pledge.
[03:10.120 --> 03:11.520]  I want to get all those DVDs.
[03:11.640 --> 03:13.040]  And what can you do?
[03:13.160 --> 03:15.640]  And all we can do is tell them, listen again the following week.
[03:15.640 --> 03:22.080]  So hopefully you're listening now and you can call us and pledge and get all those DVDs, which is an amazing deal.
[03:23.060 --> 03:23.500]  And...
[03:23.500 --> 03:26.760]  So now is 2 past 7 on Wednesday in New York.
[03:26.880 --> 03:27.000]  Right.
[03:27.080 --> 03:30.630]  So if you're actually not listening to it at 2 past 7 on Wednesday, then...
[03:31.240 --> 03:32.480]  Well, Eastern time.
[03:32.780 --> 03:32.940]  Right.
[03:33.680 --> 03:34.120]  Yeah.
[03:34.160 --> 03:35.900]  It gets a little confusing if you don't pay attention.
[03:36.200 --> 03:40.060]  Also, I see we've made $300, although that might not be our $300 up there.
[03:40.220 --> 03:44.120]  So anybody down tally, if that's not our $300, please wipe it off the list.
[03:44.580 --> 03:44.940]  Otherwise...
[03:44.940 --> 03:45.420]  We'll take it.
[03:45.500 --> 03:45.960]  We'll take it.
[03:46.020 --> 03:46.520]  Yeah, we will.
[03:46.620 --> 03:50.060]  But our goal is to exceed what we did last week.
[03:50.180 --> 03:51.100]  So $2,600.
[03:52.160 --> 03:52.520]  Yeah.
[03:52.640 --> 03:53.000]  That'd be good.
[03:53.140 --> 03:53.360]  All right.
[03:53.500 --> 03:53.540]  Fitting.
[03:53.900 --> 03:54.340]  Yeah, definitely.
[03:55.200 --> 03:57.840]  212-209-2950 is the pledge line.
[03:59.280 --> 03:59.640]  And...
[03:59.640 --> 04:11.460]  So if you're listening somewhere else in the world where it's really late at night and you just wanted the number, and so you can make your pledge and then go to sleep, the number, as you said, 1-212-209-2950.
[04:11.460 --> 04:16.460]  Yeah, but if you're overseas, you will have to dial your international prefix first.
[04:16.640 --> 04:21.860]  So let's say if you're in Europe, you have to dial 00, then 1-212-209-2950.
[04:22.100 --> 04:23.440]  Other parts of the world vary.
[04:23.680 --> 04:24.300]  It can be different.
[04:24.640 --> 04:28.560]  And in our country, you dial 011, then country code, then city code, and all that.
[04:28.700 --> 04:32.220]  But if you're in our part of the world, you just dial 1 or not even dial 1.
[04:32.480 --> 04:36.120]  I wonder what happens if you dial 011-1-212-209.
[04:36.440 --> 04:37.100]  You can't.
[04:37.100 --> 04:41.140]  Don't even look at that phone because that phone has been disabled from calling anything interesting.
[04:41.940 --> 04:44.380]  Yeah, it's part of the budget cutbacks here at the radio station.
[04:44.460 --> 04:48.580]  And that's probably a worthwhile one because who knows what people will be calling, especially people like us.
[04:48.680 --> 04:50.320]  2-1-2-209-2950.
[04:51.740 --> 05:02.600]  Now, before we get into what's on all these DVDs that we've been giving away to our contributors, anything in the news that we want to focus on really, really quickly?
[05:02.600 --> 05:10.060]  We only have a couple of minutes because we have all sorts of highlights from the Last Hope DVD set that we'd like to feature this week.
[05:10.150 --> 05:12.360]  But anything going on in the world people would like to mention?
[05:13.700 --> 05:15.740]  Sounds like, Bernie, you're drawing a breath there.
[05:15.840 --> 05:16.500]  It sounds like you're about to say something.
[05:16.770 --> 05:21.240]  Well, you mean besides the collapse of the global economic system?
[05:21.240 --> 05:22.120]  Not relevant.
[05:22.150 --> 05:26.640]  Not relevant to the world of hacking because we will always have things to play with.
[05:26.770 --> 05:28.500]  And, okay, the stock market crash is fine.
[05:28.500 --> 05:30.200]  We'll have something else that we can...
[05:30.200 --> 05:31.880]  We could build a computer out of rocks.
[05:31.880 --> 05:32.740]  Yeah, exactly.
[05:33.620 --> 05:40.660]  I wanted to mention that the New York State today just started making RFID, quote-unquote, enhanced licenses.
[05:40.880 --> 05:42.880]  It says it in, like, really cool font on the front.
[05:42.900 --> 05:43.340]  License plates?
[05:43.620 --> 05:44.060]  Licenses.
[05:44.300 --> 05:44.680]  Driver's licenses.
[05:44.680 --> 05:45.440]  Oh, driver's licenses.
[05:45.660 --> 05:46.120]  So what?
[05:46.240 --> 05:47.720]  You know where all the drivers are at all times?
[05:47.780 --> 05:48.180]  Well, no.
[05:48.320 --> 05:49.320]  So it's optional right now.
[05:49.400 --> 05:52.160]  It's actually more expensive than the regular driver's license.
[05:52.400 --> 05:55.220]  But now we're the second state in the U.S.
[05:55.240 --> 06:05.120]  I don't know what the first one is to have where if you have a driver's license, this special driver's license, you can go to Canada, Mexico, and the Caribbean with your driver's license without a passport.
[06:06.240 --> 06:07.320]  Like you used to be able to.
[06:07.740 --> 06:08.100]  Right.
[06:08.260 --> 06:08.480]  Sure.
[06:08.740 --> 06:09.040]  Okay.
[06:09.540 --> 06:10.620]  But, yeah, so...
[06:11.700 --> 06:19.300]  But it's interesting because since it's a driver's license, unlike the passport where they made a port attempt at shielding it, this is, you know, just sitting in your pocket.
[06:19.420 --> 06:22.020]  It's basically like walking around with, you know, say, your E-ZPass.
[06:22.020 --> 06:27.520]  So you could, any time, anyone with a reader who could read this could know who you are or where you are.
[06:27.760 --> 06:28.060]  Yeah.
[06:28.200 --> 06:35.120]  Apparently the RFID chip only contains a string of numbers that only means anything if you're part of the Department of Homeland Security.
[06:36.220 --> 06:44.060]  But I think the travel facility of this license is actually limited to non-air travel.
[06:44.240 --> 06:48.820]  You can travel by land, you can travel by sea, but you can't fly into Canada with it or fly into Mexico.
[06:49.100 --> 06:51.780]  Well, probably because airport security wouldn't let it go by.
[06:51.780 --> 06:53.040]  RedHack, how do I get one of these?
[06:53.320 --> 06:59.540]  You go to the DMV and you ask for it and then you pay whatever the extra is, I guess.
[06:59.700 --> 07:02.760]  And can you get one of these if your license has not yet expired?
[07:02.860 --> 07:03.220]  Yeah, sure.
[07:03.340 --> 07:03.560]  Okay.
[07:03.700 --> 07:04.960]  And you don't have to get one.
[07:05.040 --> 07:05.720]  So if I don't want...
[07:05.720 --> 07:06.740]  You don't have to get one yet.
[07:07.260 --> 07:10.220]  Does it come with like a free bit of tinfoil or something?
[07:10.400 --> 07:10.620]  No.
[07:11.120 --> 07:14.000]  You'd have to have one of those neat RFID blocking wallets.
[07:14.100 --> 07:15.200]  These are things you have to ask for, though.
[07:15.280 --> 07:17.320]  It's not being given as a default, is what you're saying?
[07:17.440 --> 07:17.640]  Right.
[07:17.740 --> 07:19.140]  Yeah, you'd have to ask for it.
[07:19.280 --> 07:20.140]  Why would somebody want to?
[07:20.140 --> 07:21.680]  Or they'll probably offer it to you.
[07:21.780 --> 07:23.960]  I guess if you travel to Canada a lot, maybe.
[07:24.140 --> 07:27.760]  If you travel to Canada, but you don't travel anywhere further abroad, so you don't have a passport.
[07:28.040 --> 07:28.180]  Yeah.
[07:28.360 --> 07:28.920]  Or if...
[07:28.920 --> 07:34.460]  I mean, say you live on, I guess, on the border or in one of these college towns and you want to just hop back and forth all the time.
[07:35.060 --> 07:38.920]  Fred, as a Canadian, how do you feel about this, us being able to travel back and forth?
[07:39.440 --> 07:43.440]  Well, I think it's good to have visitors come by back and forth.
[07:43.500 --> 07:43.860]  What about you?
[07:43.940 --> 07:46.120]  Do you have to have a particular type of...
[07:46.120 --> 07:47.640]  Do you have to show your passport to get into this country?
[07:48.020 --> 07:51.340]  I think you still do until January 2009.
[07:51.780 --> 07:53.720]  I've just verified not a long time ago.
[07:53.840 --> 07:58.100]  You can still come by with your, what is it, birth certificate?
[07:58.260 --> 07:58.480]  Uh-huh.
[07:58.900 --> 08:00.300]  Proof of identification.
[08:00.740 --> 08:03.600]  But I've been taking the passport for the past three years.
[08:03.860 --> 08:04.520]  No hassle.
[08:04.800 --> 08:05.140]  Interesting.
[08:05.140 --> 08:13.420]  As Rob said, it's not, it's not, it just has a number, a random number, you know, just like any normal, plain, cheap RFID chip.
[08:13.800 --> 08:16.060]  So it doesn't have any information about you.
[08:16.220 --> 08:21.680]  But at the same time, and if you're looking for a certain person or you want to track them, then you could use it, right?
[08:21.740 --> 08:28.720]  All you have to know is their number, which by walking by them or pointing a RFID reader or something at them would get you there.
[08:28.720 --> 08:32.100]  Well, tracking is something that we focus on quite a bit.
[08:32.380 --> 08:36.840]  And many of the talks at the Last Hope this past July had to do with people tracking.
[08:36.950 --> 08:41.320]  In fact, we had the, our own people tracking system going on throughout the entire conference.
[08:41.420 --> 08:42.040]  And that was a lot of fun.
[08:42.040 --> 08:56.900]  We had, we had a talk about taxis that I'd like to, I'd like to focus on now that had to do with GPS, had to do with some of the internal stuff going on with taxi drivers.
[08:57.740 --> 09:05.320]  And this is an excerpt from the New York City taxi talk that we, we presented at the Last Hope.
[09:05.760 --> 09:11.080]  Again, the number to call if you want to pledge for the DVD sets that we are offering.
[09:11.080 --> 09:12.520]  We have, we have different price levels.
[09:12.660 --> 09:17.120]  We have $75, we have $125, and we have $250, I believe.
[09:17.240 --> 09:18.920]  212-209-2950.
[09:19.160 --> 09:23.040]  Let's take a listen for a few minutes to this talk about New York City taxis.
[09:25.040 --> 09:28.880]  So does having GPS mean that you're tracking drivers wherever they go?
[09:30.020 --> 09:33.360]  Again, by contract, GPS data is only collected at pickup and drop-off.
[09:33.710 --> 09:36.900]  All that data is sent to the third-party servers.
[09:36.900 --> 09:40.820]  Because if you think about it, you know, these owners own the cab.
[09:41.080 --> 09:42.300]  They own the whole thing.
[09:42.450 --> 09:46.670]  So seeing where their property is, is an acceptable idea.
[09:47.300 --> 09:48.980]  Rental companies do this with their cars.
[09:49.260 --> 09:52.340]  And private citizens do this with their own cars as well.
[09:52.520 --> 09:57.400]  So it's not a new idea of having GPS tracking your property.
[09:57.740 --> 10:01.690]  And again, only the owners of that car and that GPS system can see it.
[10:02.430 --> 10:03.800]  Breadcrumbs every few seconds.
[10:03.800 --> 10:06.990]  But they're stored by the companies and dropped by the TLC.
[10:08.820 --> 10:13.860]  So you've got credit cards and GPS in the same database.
[10:14.210 --> 10:15.970]  Does that mean you can track the citizens?
[10:17.450 --> 10:20.420]  The initial data collection storage is handled by third parties.
[10:20.430 --> 10:24.320]  Which means you've got three different servers that this stuff is residing on.
[10:24.540 --> 10:27.800]  It's not just one central server where all the information comes.
[10:27.800 --> 10:30.280]  So you've got that working for you.
[10:30.400 --> 10:33.780]  That you have a one in three chance of actually getting the information that you're looking for.
[10:34.340 --> 10:36.420]  Second thing is that a lot of people are still paying in cash.
[10:37.690 --> 10:41.380]  So if someone takes a ride and pays in cash, it's not stored in the database.
[10:41.900 --> 10:42.520]  Can't do it.
[10:43.840 --> 10:45.930]  And again, the last four digits were received by the TLC.
[10:46.710 --> 10:48.600]  So you can't track it through the TLC database.
[10:48.780 --> 10:49.880]  It's very difficult.
[10:50.950 --> 10:56.210]  Seeing as there's like, again, 17,500 rides per hour, it's going to be...
[10:56.210 --> 10:59.210]  The math is pretty good that you're going to have multiples of the same last four digits.
[11:03.830 --> 11:05.510]  My slightly helpful network diagram.
[11:06.390 --> 11:14.210]  For those of you who haven't quite gotten it yet, it's that yellow tabs report to the system servers that their system belongs to.
[11:14.410 --> 11:20.930]  And then those system servers filter their results and send only the results that TLC requires to the TLC servers.
[11:20.930 --> 11:25.610]  TLC doesn't get any of that potentially hazardous data.
[11:25.830 --> 11:28.110]  It only gets the cleaned up version of the data.
[11:31.610 --> 11:33.330]  So why did the cabbies go on strike?
[11:33.490 --> 11:35.730]  It seems like most of these things are mitigated.
[11:36.150 --> 11:38.090]  Only the owners get to see where they're going.
[11:38.810 --> 11:41.130]  You're not really tracking them all the time.
[11:41.750 --> 11:45.090]  You're tracking them in a matter that can be harmful to them.
[11:45.290 --> 11:46.350]  You're tracking them by the owner.
[11:46.630 --> 11:50.090]  You're not reporting all that data to the TLC.
[11:50.090 --> 11:55.290]  You're not reporting all that data to a government agency.
[11:55.690 --> 11:58.510]  You're storing that on a third-party server.
[11:58.850 --> 12:05.010]  You know, it's not so hazardous that you'd want to go on strike and lose like thousands of dollars a day.
[12:05.150 --> 12:14.490]  But the thing is, the main reason behind this, and this is my opinion here, the main reason behind this is money.
[12:14.490 --> 12:18.450]  Finally, these drivers report their own earnings to the IRS.
[12:19.330 --> 12:22.590]  Their earnings are being reported to a government server.
[12:22.870 --> 12:24.650]  They are concerned about this.
[12:24.790 --> 12:32.150]  Because before, where they could, you know, maybe under-report their earnings, now, if they're audited, it's all there in black and white.
[12:32.810 --> 12:33.870]  They don't like that.
[12:35.350 --> 12:41.950]  Also, the GPS system, I've heard this from cabbies, is about 5% of the total cost of the car.
[12:42.550 --> 12:51.710]  So, when you're taking that into account, you know, independent drivers and fleet drivers, or fleet owners, rather, are taking a bigger hit on this than they would originally.
[12:52.110 --> 13:01.130]  But the good news is that the GPS system was implemented when a hefty increase in the taxi fare was put in place by one of the mayors.
[13:01.370 --> 13:01.970]  I forget which.
[13:02.450 --> 13:07.430]  But he put a taxi increase in, and tacked onto that was that this GPS system would go in.
[13:07.630 --> 13:12.350]  So, in theory, they shouldn't be losing, really, any money on this.
[13:13.850 --> 13:23.370]  But they still struck, because, you know, they were afraid that all their data would be reported, and that they'd be audited more easily, and then they'd start, you know, having to report all their earnings, and there'd go all that nice money.
[13:27.410 --> 13:31.050]  So, what are the benefits of the cuts to the driver in the industry that would make us want to do this?
[13:31.050 --> 13:35.870]  What can we now do that would rationalize the even minute risks that we're taking?
[13:38.730 --> 13:41.130]  The first benefit is that the most obvious one.
[13:41.470 --> 13:42.870]  Lost items are not lost for long.
[13:44.130 --> 13:52.070]  If you look in the database of lost items, you see, like, cell phones, pocketbooks, things that are left in the back of a taxi cab that people call in, and, like, oh, my God, I forgot this.
[13:52.230 --> 13:53.190]  I was just here.
[13:53.670 --> 14:03.350]  And now, back in the day, you couldn't look at, like, all the trip sheets in real time and figure out, oh, this cab was over here, you're obviously in this one, let's call him.
[14:03.470 --> 14:19.230]  But now, with the system in place, there's a method for you to call 3-1-1, and they get forwarded to TLC operators, and then they will take care of you, and you tell them, you know, I went from here, and I got dropped off here, and here's the last four digits of my credit card,
[14:19.310 --> 14:21.410]  or here's the medallion number.
[14:21.450 --> 14:22.050]  That's beautiful.
[14:22.210 --> 14:23.010]  Always keep the receipt.
[14:23.110 --> 14:24.030]  Medallion numbers are great.
[14:25.870 --> 14:30.270]  And they can figure out from, like, three or four of those data points, which cab you're in.
[14:30.570 --> 14:40.830]  And from that, they can either SMS the cab, or they can give a call to the fleet owner and say, hey, when this cab comes in, check it for, like, the cell phone in the back.
[14:41.150 --> 14:46.530]  And then you can have your data back within, like, minutes instead of weeks or never.
[14:47.890 --> 14:53.110]  Okay, and that was an excerpt of the New York City taxi talk.
[14:53.870 --> 14:56.750]  Unusual subject for a hacker convention, or maybe not.
[14:56.750 --> 14:59.990]  And that was done by Nick Leghorn.
[15:00.590 --> 15:02.490]  And it was well-received, very well-received.
[15:02.710 --> 15:09.970]  Well, I think that's one of the things about Hope and about the DVD sets we're offering is that there's really no topic that's too unusual for us.
[15:10.070 --> 15:16.970]  We have all kinds of things, including taxis, including there's a talk on food, which I think is only in the complete set.
[15:17.170 --> 15:17.370]  Right.
[15:17.430 --> 15:18.790]  Maybe more than one talk on food.
[15:18.790 --> 15:19.710]  I don't even remember.
[15:20.150 --> 15:21.550]  There's all kinds of things.
[15:21.850 --> 15:31.110]  So it's really, you know, if you pledge, and we'll give you the details in just a second, and you get these DVD sets, you'll learn everything.
[15:31.110 --> 15:33.910]  You will know everything if you watch all the DVDs.
[15:34.030 --> 15:39.310]  And that's really something that you can't say about any other conference, really.
[15:39.310 --> 15:41.870]  Yeah, you can't get more detailed than this.
[15:42.110 --> 15:47.110]  And what we're offering with this full DVD set, it's 100 DVDs.
[15:47.270 --> 15:47.730]  100?
[15:47.970 --> 15:48.410]  I'm not kidding.
[15:48.730 --> 15:49.870]  100 DVDs, yeah.
[15:50.350 --> 15:54.190]  And you're getting that for a cut rate price of $250.
[15:54.570 --> 15:56.290]  212-209-2950.
[15:56.530 --> 16:00.110]  So you'll get all the talks, including the New York City Taxi Talk.
[16:00.210 --> 16:00.490]  You know what?
[16:00.550 --> 16:04.830]  I'm just going to go down the list of the talks, and then you'll know what you're getting.
[16:05.570 --> 16:07.290]  Advanced Memory Forensics.
[16:07.290 --> 16:09.230]  The Art of...
[16:09.230 --> 16:10.610]  How do you say that word?
[16:11.010 --> 16:11.510]  What word?
[16:12.090 --> 16:12.890]  That one right there.
[16:14.070 --> 16:14.530]  Dofu?
[16:14.730 --> 16:14.930]  Okay.
[16:15.530 --> 16:16.210]  Whatever that is.
[16:16.330 --> 16:17.110]  I think it's dofu.
[16:17.270 --> 16:18.910]  See, I didn't want to get into an argument about it.
[16:18.990 --> 16:27.230]  The metadata project that we have with the RFID tags, bypassing VoIP filters with asterisks.
[16:27.470 --> 16:28.490]  The bag cam talk.
[16:28.590 --> 16:37.550]  That was about putting a camera in a bag and sending it through Homeland Security and having it film everything that goes on on an airplane with a bag.
[16:37.770 --> 16:40.210]  You know, when your bag gets separated from you, what happens?
[16:40.350 --> 16:42.250]  What do the baggage handlers do behind the scenes?
[16:43.490 --> 16:46.630]  Biohacking, botnet research, building a better ballot box.
[16:46.790 --> 16:47.570]  We're only up to the Bs.
[16:47.690 --> 16:48.710]  Building hacker spaces.
[16:49.430 --> 16:58.990]  And then our friends over at Make Magazine, Citizen Engineer, Consumer Electronics Hacking and Open Source Hardware, Hardware Hacking, Community Fabrication.
[16:59.070 --> 16:59.370]  You know what?
[16:59.410 --> 17:00.710]  This is going to take forever for me to read all this.
[17:00.870 --> 17:03.130]  But we have about 100 talks.
[17:03.350 --> 17:07.830]  We have all sorts of fascinating speakers and things to learn.
[17:08.190 --> 17:12.010]  And you can get every single last one of them for a pledge of $250.
[17:12.370 --> 17:13.150]  This is unprecedented.
[17:13.150 --> 17:18.570]  And guaranteed when this becomes available, you won't be able to get it for a price like this.
[17:18.710 --> 17:21.570]  So for $250, you get all these DVDs.
[17:21.610 --> 17:22.970]  So you'll learn all kinds of things.
[17:23.090 --> 17:31.170]  And not only that, but you will continue to learn things because you'll help keep this radio station and this program on the air to learn about new things in the future.
[17:31.350 --> 17:34.030]  The number, 212-209-2950.
[17:34.970 --> 17:36.850]  I see zero calls on the line.
[17:36.950 --> 17:39.090]  I don't know what people think it's going to get any better than this.
[17:39.270 --> 17:42.430]  Okay, it will get a little bit better because you also get an off-the-hook t-shirt with that.
[17:42.430 --> 17:44.950]  Any pledge, $30 and above, gets an off-the-hook t-shirt.
[17:45.070 --> 17:46.310]  Is that the incentive you're looking for?
[17:46.470 --> 17:48.150]  As if this wasn't incentive enough?
[17:48.890 --> 17:49.630]  My goodness.
[17:49.990 --> 18:04.810]  You know, the real incentive should be saving a radio station here in New York City that broadcasts off the top of the Empire State Building and gets to four different states and has a history of all kinds of controversial topic matter and waking people up and getting people angry.
[18:05.050 --> 18:05.550]  Things like that.
[18:05.650 --> 18:07.070]  212-209-2950.
[18:07.230 --> 18:08.210]  Okay, two calls on the line.
[18:08.570 --> 18:09.590]  Three calls on the line.
[18:09.590 --> 18:14.930]  Let's get some action out there because this is a phenomenal deal that we're offering tonight.
[18:15.290 --> 18:24.470]  And we're only offering it tonight because we have two more weeks of the fundraiser to go, but we're going to be offering different things because, to be honest, we're going to go broke giving away all these DVDs.
[18:25.270 --> 18:27.790]  We have to because we have to keep this place afloat.
[18:27.930 --> 18:30.970]  So what you're saying is there's about 43 minutes left to get this.
[18:31.150 --> 18:32.150]  And then that's it.
[18:32.230 --> 18:32.670]  Pretty much.
[18:32.790 --> 18:39.510]  So if you know somebody in a different part of the world who might be asleep or doing something else and you know that they want this, by all means, call them.
[18:39.590 --> 18:39.990]  Wake them up.
[18:40.050 --> 18:44.650]  Tell them this is your opportunity because it's not going to last beyond 8 p.m.
[18:44.850 --> 18:46.110]  Eastern time in New York City.
[18:46.250 --> 18:48.650]  Or pledge and give it to them as a gift.
[18:48.890 --> 18:49.650]  And then you'll both...
[18:49.650 --> 18:49.670]  That's right.
[18:49.670 --> 18:56.450]  So they'll be able to enjoy the DVDs and you'll both be able to enjoy the continuation of the radio station and the program.
[18:56.610 --> 18:56.990]  That's right.
[18:57.090 --> 18:57.370]  That's right.
[18:57.370 --> 18:59.330]  You can pledge and have it sent to somebody else.
[18:59.410 --> 18:59.890]  You can do that.
[19:05.890 --> 19:06.990]  We'll send you a bill.
[19:07.130 --> 19:08.410]  We can send you a bill.
[19:08.650 --> 19:09.490]  All kinds of things like that.
[19:09.610 --> 19:11.250]  212-209-2950.
[19:11.430 --> 19:13.810]  We have something like six calls on the line, which is very good.
[19:14.430 --> 19:17.930]  Now, I guess we should also point out that we have different levels as well.
[19:18.690 --> 19:27.690]  It's obviously if you want everything, that's the best as far as I'm concerned because you go to a conference, even if you go to a conference like The Last Hope, you don't get to see everything.
[19:27.930 --> 19:29.170]  You certainly don't get to see everything.
[19:29.270 --> 19:29.810]  Nobody does.
[19:30.250 --> 19:38.810]  But this is as close as you can possibly get because there are so many different things to see and so many good things that you miss, no matter how hard you try not to.
[19:39.510 --> 19:44.330]  There was a talk, and I'm going to do an excerpt from this talk next, about the history of phone freaking.
[19:44.870 --> 19:47.670]  Now, phone freaking is something that's near and dear to a lot of us.
[19:47.890 --> 19:50.830]  We have all kinds of history, all kinds of stories.
[19:51.370 --> 19:55.390]  And what this particular talk did was go over some of the early days.
[19:55.430 --> 20:11.710]  In fact, what you're going to hear in this excerpt is a recording from the 1950s explaining long-distance dialing, the concept of long-distance dialing to a populace that simply wasn't familiar with something like that.
[20:11.810 --> 20:18.150]  This was done by Phil Lapsley, and it's basically the history of phone freaking, 1960 to 1980.
[20:18.490 --> 20:20.110]  Now, I said there are different levels.
[20:20.110 --> 20:28.070]  Yes, we also have, if you pledge $75, you can get the top 10 of the DVD set.
[20:28.840 --> 20:30.290]  And that would include...
[20:30.290 --> 20:31.830]  Does it include this one?
[20:31.950 --> 20:33.810]  I'm not sure if it includes this one.
[20:34.330 --> 20:38.290]  It includes our keynote speaker by a speech by Steve Levy.
[20:38.490 --> 20:53.530]  It includes Adam Savage, Kevin Mitnick, Steve Rombon, Jella Biafra, The Social Engineering Talk, Grand Theft Laszlo, Hacking Cool Things with Microcontrollers with Mitch Altman, Hacking Democracy, all about electronic voting, and the intersection of culture jamming,
[20:53.650 --> 20:56.550]  hacking, and hacktivism with Mark from Negative Land.
[20:56.610 --> 20:58.490]  So that's what you get for the top 10.
[20:58.970 --> 21:02.650]  And that's a pledge of $75, 212-209-2950.
[21:02.870 --> 21:05.750]  If you pledge $125, you'll get the top 20.
[21:06.010 --> 21:08.750]  And that includes the taxi talk that you just heard.
[21:08.850 --> 21:17.710]  That also includes the history of phone freaking, which you're about to hear now, as well as some lockpicking talks, as well as a few other ones.
[21:17.830 --> 21:28.930]  But if you want everything, if you want everything, all the DVDs, so you don't have to worry about missing something and getting it at a phenomenal cost, 212-209-2950, pledge $250.
[21:29.410 --> 21:32.870]  And with all these pledges, you'll get a $2,600 off-the-hook t-shirt.
[21:33.090 --> 21:34.270]  And a radio program.
[21:34.550 --> 21:35.030]  That's right.
[21:35.090 --> 21:35.950]  And a radio station.
[21:36.490 --> 21:36.950]  All right.
[21:37.130 --> 21:40.310]  Let's listen to a bit of the history of phone freaking.
[21:41.550 --> 21:45.850]  And wow, it's just incredible what has changed over the years.
[21:45.850 --> 21:54.590]  Think back to the 1950s when the recording that Phil Lapsley is about to play for us was sent to the American people.
[21:54.730 --> 21:58.650]  And think of how much things have changed just in the last 10 years, let alone in the last 50.
[21:58.850 --> 22:01.510]  Again, 212-209-2950.
[22:01.730 --> 22:03.030]  Got a bunch of calls on the line.
[22:03.170 --> 22:09.450]  If you don't get an answer right away, please call back because as we mentioned, this offer is only good for this hour.
[22:09.870 --> 22:11.730]  212-209-2950.
[22:12.010 --> 22:26.050]  Actually, on that first conversation that I had with Jason, he said something which really struck me very deeply, which is, he said, you face an interesting challenge because if you look at phone freaking, at some elemental level, it's the same as hacking,
[22:26.170 --> 22:26.770]  it's the same as stuff.
[22:26.850 --> 22:37.270]  But if you talk about the more specifics, the idea of making a free phone call, the idea of exploring the telephone network, these are things that just don't make very much sense today.
[22:37.550 --> 22:44.970]  And so, you're really going to have a tough time getting the people who read your book or listen to your talk to understand that.
[22:45.070 --> 22:48.730]  So, what I thought was we could hop into the Wayback Machine for a little bit.
[22:50.010 --> 22:59.790]  And I'd like to take you back to around 1950 or so and you're really going to have to just use your imagination here for those of you who were born after this time.
[22:59.930 --> 23:06.390]  But I'd like you to imagine a world, as crazy as it sounds, where you don't own your own phone.
[23:06.890 --> 23:07.150]  Okay?
[23:07.410 --> 23:09.530]  You rent your phone from the phone company.
[23:09.610 --> 23:10.670]  You pay a charge every month.
[23:10.810 --> 23:22.570]  The phones that you rent from the phone company are not printed, are not painted, but are stamped in steel on the bottom, Bell System property, not for sale.
[23:22.870 --> 23:32.510]  These are phrases that are familiar to any phone freak from this era because, of course, they all had Bell System property that was not for sale that they bought at Swapmeets or wherever.
[23:33.970 --> 23:36.590]  So, it's kind of, it's just a, it's a bizarre thing, right?
[23:36.670 --> 23:38.530]  It's like, wow, I don't own my own phone.
[23:38.650 --> 23:50.450]  In fact, the phone company, AT&T, and although there were other phone companies, there were independent phone companies, but AT&T was the phone company, which we're slowly getting back to, I suppose, but we're not quite there yet.
[23:52.070 --> 23:57.990]  Imagine a world, again, it sounds incredible, where long-distance phone calls were actually expensive, right?
[23:58.230 --> 24:05.410]  This chart is looking at the cost of a five-minute call from between New York and San Francisco during the day.
[24:05.670 --> 24:08.990]  Those of you old enough to remember, the phone company had day, evening, and night rates.
[24:09.310 --> 24:12.230]  And this is expressed in constant dollars as of 2000.
[24:12.730 --> 24:27.070]  So, that call back in the 1950s would cost around $25 to $30, and it came down over time and now probably there's some sort of ad-sponsored thing where they'll pay you to make a phone call or something like that, right?
[24:27.170 --> 24:27.870]  I don't know.
[24:28.370 --> 24:31.190]  But again, it's like, wow, this is so cool.
[24:31.270 --> 24:34.110]  Look, I did all this work and now I can make a free call.
[24:34.690 --> 24:34.810]  Huh?
[24:35.830 --> 24:37.130]  You know, they're free.
[24:37.290 --> 24:38.530]  It just doesn't matter.
[24:39.130 --> 24:42.170]  So again, sort of a disconnect between today and back then.
[24:44.250 --> 24:49.530]  Imagine a world where dialing your own long-distance calls was a totally foreign concept.
[24:49.670 --> 25:00.010]  Such a foreign concept that you actually have to educate the public that they're no longer going to pick up the phone and ask the operator to connect them to San Francisco.
[25:01.150 --> 25:09.890]  And AT&T actually, as it introduced this, the pilot for direct-distance dialing, as they called it, was in Englewood, New Jersey in the 1950s.
[25:10.570 --> 25:13.210]  And they actually produced a promotional video.
[25:13.210 --> 25:17.730]  And what I've done is cut it up a little bit just to get it down to its essence.
[25:17.890 --> 25:20.050]  It's still going to be a several-minute bit.
[25:20.270 --> 25:22.910]  And I apologize because I'm not the world's most competent video editor.
[25:23.030 --> 25:25.070]  I do not have Jason's mad skills in this area.
[25:25.490 --> 25:28.510]  But I would like you to see this because I think it's pretty interesting.
[25:30.530 --> 25:33.690]  Englewood could be any one of hundreds of American communities.
[25:34.590 --> 25:36.210]  Population 25,000.
[25:36.690 --> 25:45.430]  Main street with busy stores, banks, and movie theaters, attractive suburban homes with their neat lawns and their well-groomed look.
[25:46.810 --> 25:52.530]  In size and in the kind of people who live here, Englewood is like many other American towns.
[25:53.490 --> 26:00.970]  And that was one of the reasons it has become the first town in the world to have an unusual kind of telephone service.
[26:01.990 --> 26:05.830]  Remember that number Mrs. Warren looked up in her personal telephone notebook.
[26:07.130 --> 26:17.450]  318 Garfield 5 2368 The only difference between that and a local number is the three digits at the beginning.
[26:19.030 --> 26:22.370]  318 is the code for the San Francisco area.
[26:23.830 --> 26:31.490]  If her daughter had lived in Chicago, Mrs. Warren would have dialed the code 312 and then the telephone number.
[26:32.730 --> 26:46.090]  Cleveland 216 Boston 617 Altogether, more than 80 numbered areas are planned for the United States and parts of Canada.
[26:47.050 --> 26:54.090]  For some time past, area numbers like these have been used by telephone operators in dialing long-distance calls.
[26:55.090 --> 27:03.310]  When the people in the Englewood area with one and two party lines were given this service, they could dial to 13 of these areas.
[27:03.310 --> 27:08.850]  That meant that more than 11 million telephones could be dialed from Englewood.
[27:09.890 --> 27:13.510]  Keeping track of the details of the call is done automatically, too.
[27:14.230 --> 27:22.390]  When you dial a number, holes are punched in a continuous tape representing your telephone number and the number you dial.
[27:23.630 --> 27:30.170]  More holes are punched to show the time when you start talking and when you finish talking and hang up.
[27:30.830 --> 27:36.170]  If you get a busy signal or the number doesn't answer, no charge is made.
[27:37.710 --> 27:47.390]  Since all this information is in the form of tiny holes in a long piece of paper, the meaning of these tiny holes has to be expressed in words and figures.
[27:48.910 --> 28:06.270]  This is done by running the tape through several machines which assemble the information, translate, sort, and summarize it, figure the length of your call, apply the correct rate, and, you guessed it, type your toll statement.
[28:16.220 --> 28:17.840]  Yeah, that's pretty special.
[28:17.980 --> 28:23.240]  You wonder, by the way, how many employees' right arms got lost in that big spinning, you know, woo!
[28:25.480 --> 28:28.180]  So, again, right, a different world.
[28:28.640 --> 28:29.840]  It's a different world.
[28:31.800 --> 28:38.120]  And as an aside, 318, the area code for San Francisco, which I grew up in, it was 415.
[28:38.680 --> 28:47.700]  Yeah, in the original dialing plan, all of San Francisco and the East Bay and South Bay and all that was one area code and it was area code 318.
[28:47.800 --> 28:48.920]  That's like Oakland 415.
[28:49.860 --> 28:51.800]  San Francisco 318, Oakland 415.
[28:52.020 --> 28:52.500]  Right, correct.
[28:52.680 --> 28:56.420]  And so what happened was, sorry, and so in the original plan, you're right, it was 318 and 415.
[28:56.440 --> 28:59.540]  And what ended up happening was they ended up making all of it 415.
[28:59.860 --> 29:07.340]  And then later, of course, San Francisco stole 415 from, I live in Oakland, so they stole 415 from us.
[29:10.420 --> 29:17.640]  So, let's fast forward a little bit from Englewood to Joe and Gressia.
[29:17.820 --> 29:23.180]  And Joe and Gressia in 1957 was an 8-year-old boy.
[29:23.280 --> 29:24.240]  He was a lonely kid.
[29:25.060 --> 29:27.260]  He's died, unfortunately, last year.
[29:27.880 --> 29:30.980]  But he is known as the granddaddy of phone freaking.
[29:31.220 --> 29:33.820]  And one of the reasons for that is this.
[29:35.300 --> 29:38.260]  This was probably in like 57 or 58.
[29:38.680 --> 29:42.080]  And I was, I don't know how I happened to be on a long distance.
[29:42.240 --> 29:48.400]  I think we had made a long distance call and I heard this you know, kind of sound in the background.
[29:48.820 --> 29:54.160]  And, so I kind of whistled along with it and it cut the line off.
[29:54.760 --> 29:59.540]  And I was, it made a click and cut it off and I didn't know why.
[29:59.540 --> 30:03.800]  And then I dialed, had the operator, I could have her connect me with information.
[30:04.060 --> 30:05.580]  And that was free back then.
[30:06.380 --> 30:09.760]  And I would whistle that tone and it would make the line click.
[30:09.980 --> 30:12.260]  And if it was talking I would cut it off, you know.
[30:13.360 --> 30:17.280]  So Joe had a lot of fun whistling and making the line disconnect.
[30:17.560 --> 30:20.600]  And in fact, this was from an interview that I had with him last year.
[30:20.900 --> 30:28.880]  And he said, you know, when I figured out that this worked, one of the things I wouldn't do is I would go out with my mom.
[30:28.880 --> 30:29.920]  We'd be going someplace.
[30:31.280 --> 30:33.880]  And as we'd pass by payphones, I'd whistle.
[30:34.520 --> 30:36.660]  And, you know, invariably people would go, hello?
[30:36.840 --> 30:36.960]  Hello?
[30:37.200 --> 30:37.780]  Is anyone there?
[30:38.000 --> 30:40.560]  And so he got a lot of, he got a kick out of that.
[30:41.720 --> 30:42.200]  Okay.
[30:42.500 --> 30:49.600]  That was an excerpt from the history of phone freaking with Phil Lapsley that took place during the Last Hope conference.
[30:50.280 --> 30:55.160]  And part of the DVD package that we're offering here at the radio station for a pledge.
[30:55.560 --> 31:04.940]  If you pledge $125, you'll get the the history of phone freaking along with 19 other talks that we're we're packaging in that.
[31:05.180 --> 31:07.820]  Pledge $125, 212-209-2950.
[31:08.040 --> 31:08.660]  Pledge $250.
[31:09.000 --> 31:12.140]  You'll get everything, every single DVD made from The Last Hope.
[31:12.260 --> 31:14.220]  That's 100 DVDs, around 100 DVDs.
[31:14.220 --> 31:17.900]  You know that every time you say that you're giving the pledge director a heart attack, right?
[31:18.040 --> 31:18.820]  Yeah, I realize that.
[31:18.940 --> 31:19.500]  I realize that.
[31:19.640 --> 31:20.460]  That's a bad thing, right?
[31:20.780 --> 31:23.920]  Well, I saw we had a lot of calls come in and you were just down in tally, Red Hex.
[31:23.920 --> 31:26.000]  So it's mayhem down there?
[31:26.140 --> 31:26.940]  That's what I'd like to see.
[31:26.960 --> 31:28.080]  There's only one call on the line now.
[31:28.080 --> 31:29.320]  It's not now, but it was.
[31:29.480 --> 31:33.400]  If you called and you couldn't get through because of all the mayhem, this is a good time to call.
[31:34.000 --> 31:36.700]  Because as we said, we're only offering this for a little while longer.
[31:36.800 --> 31:41.340]  We have a couple more excerpts to play, but we're only offering it for a few more minutes.
[31:42.100 --> 31:43.960]  212-209-2950.
[31:44.320 --> 31:46.980]  We have three calls on the line now, so the mayhem is starting again.
[31:47.660 --> 31:49.280]  Bernie, does that bring back memories for you?
[31:49.680 --> 31:50.620]  Oh, yes.
[31:50.800 --> 31:56.240]  And that was actually a really interesting talk that went on, like all these talks, for a good hour.
[31:56.440 --> 31:58.780]  And it went on to...
[31:58.780 --> 32:12.220]  Phil Leslie went on to explain and interview other people who actually explained what they did to make long-distance calls without having to pay tens or hundreds of dollars.
[32:12.400 --> 32:29.960]  It's an odd concept for people today, but you and I and many of our other listeners to WBAI, remember when you had to wait until late at night to make your long-distance call because it was cheap, or if you're in the elite group of phone freaks, you could make your calls anytime,
[32:30.060 --> 32:33.220]  and it would not show up in the billing system.
[32:33.420 --> 32:34.920]  And this was just magic.
[32:35.420 --> 32:35.960]  It was just...
[32:35.960 --> 32:40.740]  A long-distance call was really considered a rare thing.
[32:41.360 --> 32:46.260]  A lot of us can remember it's like, oh, I'm expecting a long-distance call, so don't bother me right now.
[32:47.220 --> 32:48.640]  And it'd sound different, too.
[32:48.720 --> 32:54.820]  When you made a long-distance call, you'd actually hear the hiss of the long-distance lines and it would take time for the call to connect.
[32:54.940 --> 32:56.260]  You'd hear all kinds of relays clicking.
[32:56.520 --> 32:57.820]  It took a long time.
[32:58.000 --> 32:58.340]  It was...
[32:58.340 --> 32:59.440]  I liked it better, to be honest.
[32:59.660 --> 33:01.480]  And you're not even talking about international calls.
[33:01.580 --> 33:01.620]  No.
[33:01.620 --> 33:04.740]  I think a lot of younger people would think long-distance is international now.
[33:04.780 --> 33:06.680]  You're talking just to another area.
[33:06.680 --> 33:10.280]  I remember when international calling became possible when you could dial 011.
[33:10.580 --> 33:12.600]  You used to have to always go through the operator to get into that.
[33:12.680 --> 33:14.380]  But you know what was cool about those days?
[33:14.480 --> 33:16.680]  You could call international information for nothing.
[33:16.840 --> 33:17.600]  It didn't cost a penny.
[33:17.700 --> 33:20.200]  Now it costs like $6 or something insane like that.
[33:20.320 --> 33:26.800]  So you could call information in Botswana and ask for a number for something nonsensical and have a lot of fun.
[33:27.300 --> 33:28.640]  And we used to do that all the time.
[33:28.920 --> 33:29.440]  So, yeah.
[33:29.460 --> 33:29.700]  It's free.
[33:29.980 --> 33:30.300]  Memories.
[33:30.580 --> 33:34.760]  And in fact, if you go back to the early days of Off the Hook, you'll hear some of that because phones are very different then.
[33:34.760 --> 33:43.320]  Speaking of Africa, we have a program note which is that the Afrobeat radio special featuring the Zozo Afrobeat band is not happening right now.
[33:43.460 --> 33:46.160]  It's happening starting at 9 o'clock and going till midnight.
[33:46.360 --> 33:47.660]  I noticed it wasn't happening right now.
[33:47.680 --> 33:47.940]  Yes.
[33:48.080 --> 33:48.260]  All right.
[33:48.320 --> 33:49.360]  So that's happening at 9 o'clock.
[33:49.740 --> 33:49.820]  All right.
[33:49.820 --> 33:51.980]  See, there's always something going on on this radio station.
[33:52.140 --> 33:57.400]  So that means that if you can't stand us, just tune in in a few minutes and you'll hear something else that you probably will like.
[33:57.700 --> 33:59.180]  212-209-2950.
[33:59.400 --> 34:01.240]  Is that reason enough to call and support this place?
[34:01.260 --> 34:12.700]  Because we have all kinds of variety, all kinds of different programming coming your way and it's been like that since this station first went on the air back in 1960 and it survives only because of listeners like you.
[34:13.340 --> 34:14.460]  It's really true.
[34:14.680 --> 34:19.160]  I mean, first of all, no other radio station probably in the country would have a hacker radio show.
[34:19.320 --> 34:24.580]  But even if there were one that somehow did, they would not have Afrobeat radio two hours later.
[34:24.700 --> 34:25.320]  That's very true.
[34:25.440 --> 34:26.040]  That's very true.
[34:26.320 --> 34:27.340]  It's just, you know, unheard of.
[34:27.500 --> 34:30.540]  You have both hacker news and history in the same show.
[34:30.720 --> 34:31.560]  Yeah, absolutely.
[34:31.720 --> 34:31.960]  Absolutely.
[34:32.240 --> 34:34.120]  It's woken up people.
[34:34.260 --> 34:35.400]  It's made so many things possible.
[34:35.660 --> 34:47.520]  It helped organize the conference for us, helped get the word out, helped get the word out about various happenings in the hacker world, educating people about the Digital Millennium Copyright Act and freedom of speech and all that kind of a thing.
[34:48.520 --> 34:50.580]  So radio is a vital tool for that.
[34:50.720 --> 34:57.860]  And I don't want to not pay enough attention to the fact that, yes, this is a crisis situation.
[34:57.860 --> 34:59.000]  It always is at this place.
[34:59.000 --> 35:07.820]  But there are all kinds of possibilities as to what could happen with the economy and with changing times and raising rents and things like that.
[35:07.960 --> 35:09.640]  This place could go away tomorrow.
[35:09.640 --> 35:10.740]  It could happen.
[35:10.980 --> 35:14.760]  I don't want to sound alarmist, but there are always all kinds of problems.
[35:14.760 --> 35:15.580]  We have to pay rent.
[35:15.700 --> 35:16.760]  We have to pay for the transmitter.
[35:17.840 --> 35:21.260]  There's all sorts of emergencies that can come up at any time.
[35:21.260 --> 35:22.780]  And we have to be prepared for that.
[35:22.900 --> 35:29.940]  And believe me, a frequency of this power, of this power in this city is worth a fortune.
[35:30.140 --> 35:32.580]  And there are people who would buy it in a second.
[35:32.840 --> 35:35.840]  And there are people who would sell it in a second too.
[35:36.020 --> 35:36.880]  And we can't...
[35:36.880 --> 35:40.900]  We almost had this happen years ago where the wrong people got their hands on things.
[35:41.920 --> 35:44.800]  And there are people There are people who think that this is a waste.
[35:45.020 --> 35:48.060]  That this could be better served by playing country music or something like that.
[35:48.180 --> 35:54.080]  And maybe we should be broadcasting just on the internet or maybe just on a low power station instead.
[35:54.720 --> 35:56.500]  There are people who feel this way.
[35:56.980 --> 36:02.460]  Now, the best way to counter that is to support the place and make sure that it is here, that it is strong.
[36:02.840 --> 36:06.260]  There are all kinds of potential problems that could come up if we don't do that.
[36:06.380 --> 36:08.000]  212-209-2950.
[36:08.140 --> 36:10.440]  That should be the reason alone for you to call.
[36:10.440 --> 36:14.540]  The stuff that we're throwing in, that's just icing on the cake.
[36:14.820 --> 36:18.620]  We're trying to make it as pleasant for you as possible by donating things ourselves.
[36:18.880 --> 36:20.880]  And we're donating a whole lot of DVDs right now.
[36:22.060 --> 36:24.200]  Again, 10 DVDs for $75.
[36:24.680 --> 36:26.060]  20 DVDs for $125.
[36:27.120 --> 36:29.580]  100 DVDs for $250.
[36:29.780 --> 36:34.160]  All from the last Hope Conference taking place this July in New York City.
[36:34.200 --> 36:35.000]  Amazing stuff.
[36:35.320 --> 36:37.260]  212-209-2950.
[36:37.500 --> 36:40.420]  Everybody pledging 30 or more gets an off-the-hook t-shirt.
[36:40.440 --> 36:43.540]  That tells the world that you listen to this particular radio show.
[36:43.740 --> 36:45.780]  Now, we have another clip that I'd like to get to.
[36:45.880 --> 36:48.080]  But first, we want to thank some people who have already pledged.
[36:48.340 --> 36:51.680]  Yes, we want to start by thanking Ted from Little Falls, New Jersey.
[36:51.960 --> 36:52.340]  All right.
[36:53.480 --> 36:55.980]  Jeremy from Emmenbruck, Switzerland.
[36:56.340 --> 36:56.860]  All right.
[36:57.020 --> 36:57.320]  Switzerland.
[36:57.480 --> 36:57.820]  There you go.
[36:57.980 --> 36:58.320]  Emmenbruck, yeah.
[36:59.380 --> 37:03.420]  And we want to thank George from Laurelton, which is in New York.
[37:03.580 --> 37:06.540]  He pledged to the Evening News, but he's still a great person.
[37:06.540 --> 37:06.980]  Okay, it still counts.
[37:07.160 --> 37:09.220]  It doesn't count to us, but we want to thank him anyway.
[37:09.220 --> 37:09.280]  All right.
[37:09.560 --> 37:10.960]  Paul from Brooklyn, New York.
[37:11.080 --> 37:11.280]  All right.
[37:11.360 --> 37:11.960]  I've heard of that, Brooklyn.
[37:13.320 --> 37:17.100]  And we'd like to thank Weston from Mapple, Minnesota.
[37:17.700 --> 37:18.340]  All right.
[37:18.560 --> 37:19.460]  Out there in Minnesota.
[37:19.680 --> 37:20.420]  Is that all we have right now?
[37:20.440 --> 37:21.640]  I know there's a bunch more down there.
[37:21.760 --> 37:23.360]  And there's always all these anonymous people.
[37:23.500 --> 37:28.540]  People might think that I say this almost every time, that I'm making up the anonymous people just to make it seem like...
[37:28.540 --> 37:29.540]  No, I see you hold them there.
[37:29.540 --> 37:36.600]  But there's all these anonymous people who, for whatever reason, don't want even their first name and city to be said on off the hook.
[37:36.900 --> 37:36.940]  Right.
[37:36.940 --> 37:37.460]  They'll take back their plenty.
[37:37.620 --> 37:38.680]  But they like us anyway.
[37:38.780 --> 37:39.880]  They would have a city of, like, 50 people.
[37:40.280 --> 37:41.440]  Maybe they...
[37:41.780 --> 37:44.080]  Well, in any event, there's two of them on the line right now.
[37:44.140 --> 37:47.000]  We don't know if they're anonymous or not, but we want to encourage you to join them.
[37:47.120 --> 37:48.420]  212-209-2950.
[37:48.500 --> 37:50.380]  We've already broken the $2,000 mark, which is great.
[37:50.380 --> 37:52.000]  But we have a bit to go.
[37:52.240 --> 37:54.240]  And we have another excerpt to play.
[37:54.520 --> 37:57.180]  This is part of the talk from Jello Biafra.
[37:57.280 --> 37:59.380]  Now, Jello Biafra is a big fan of the Hope Conferences.
[37:59.380 --> 38:01.340]  He shows up every time, ever since 2000.
[38:01.340 --> 38:02.580]  He's been coming every two years.
[38:03.600 --> 38:10.140]  And in this particular excerpt, he's talking about some of the trendier things that people are doing these days on the Internet.
[38:10.300 --> 38:15.080]  I'm talking about Facebook and instant messaging and SMSing and all that kind of nonsense.
[38:15.080 --> 38:16.360]  And this is his take.
[38:16.500 --> 38:23.300]  This is the guy who doesn't actually own the computer, but I think he nails it as far as what this is doing to us as a society.
[38:23.900 --> 38:30.660]  This is just one of many talks that you will get for pledging to 212-209-2950.
[38:31.380 --> 38:32.640]  Let's listen to Jello Biafra.
[38:34.680 --> 38:35.080]  Whoops.
[38:35.340 --> 38:35.580]  Okay.
[38:36.480 --> 38:38.040]  The DVD player did not cooperate.
[38:38.200 --> 38:38.720]  Hang on one second.
[38:38.820 --> 38:39.960]  I just have to queue it up.
[38:40.400 --> 38:42.620]  Speaking of technology and its wonders.
[38:43.140 --> 38:43.720]  It's amazing.
[38:43.880 --> 38:44.100]  Here we go.
[38:44.100 --> 38:44.880]  212-209.
[38:44.900 --> 38:46.200]  A lawyer from Google...
[38:46.200 --> 38:46.660]  2950.
[38:46.800 --> 38:52.780]  ...say to the New York Times a while back, young people don't care about privacy the way they once did.
[38:53.560 --> 39:01.740]  Especially if they're being told that this is the way you consume and everybody's got to put up, hey, look at me, look at me, look at me.
[39:01.980 --> 39:14.480]  And only now are some finding out when they get a little older that a snotty teenage comment you made on Facebook can cost you a job as an adult or get you thrown out of college.
[39:14.840 --> 39:24.080]  Perspective employers now mine MySpace and Facebook and the other things like it looking for dirt and looking for people not to hire.
[39:24.240 --> 39:26.600]  Never mind who might be best for the job.
[39:26.760 --> 39:29.900]  Let's see how they screwed up and disqualify them that way.
[39:29.900 --> 39:52.040]  In a weird way, though, I do look forward to the day when something like this happens to some family values politician or right-wing Supreme Court nominee and suddenly they go down in flames like the Hindenburg when somebody finds out about all the animals they bragged they had sex with while drunk on their Facebook page as a teenager.
[39:54.540 --> 40:19.380]  On the other hand, does this mean if we're going to participate in this network that we all have to be as paranoid about our every single thing we do from childhood or, you know, just like some egomaniac who's planning to run for president in 30 years do we all have to be that careful and walk on eggshells even in our own bedrooms and prison ourselves in a constant state of I tried but I didn't
[40:19.380 --> 40:19.920]  inhale?
[40:20.960 --> 40:31.820]  I mean, that, that, being watched like that and having to worry about that is even crueler than the Catholic Church and with no chance to confess and magically make everything all better.
[40:32.560 --> 40:36.220]  I mean, that is hardly my idea of expanding democracy.
[40:36.780 --> 40:53.240]  And Google, among others, has made it their business to collect and store and sell more information about you and everything you've bought and everything you read than the FBI, the CIA, and the Keystone Stormtroopers at Homeland Security combined.
[40:54.020 --> 41:10.060]  And Facebook, as many of you know, launched their beacon service last year notifying users' friends of a person's online purchases without their permission thus exposing in advance who's, what you're going to get for Christmas from those people.
[41:10.060 --> 41:18.180]  But what if you look up, oh, this friend who you've been going out with, who's on your Facebook page, just bought a pregnancy test and you've been out of town for a month.
[41:20.620 --> 41:25.760]  Yeah, and you thought Obama voting to let the NSA spy on us was your worst problem.
[41:25.760 --> 41:29.820]  This is how we volunteer to be violated by these people.
[41:30.440 --> 41:33.400]  Anna Lee, I hope I say her last name right, Newitz?
[41:34.240 --> 41:34.760]  Navitz?
[41:35.240 --> 41:40.520]  Anyway, who until recently wrote for the San Francisco Bay Guardian and was the best thing in the paper.
[41:40.940 --> 41:43.040]  She had an interesting comment about this.
[41:43.160 --> 41:50.400]  The more public our friend lists are, the more we feel like we have to pick our friends based on public opinion.
[41:51.720 --> 41:54.880]  That's not expanding democracy, that's high school.
[41:55.740 --> 42:08.500]  Facebook and MySpace and the others are all good tools, of course, to expand what you know and who you know, but if that's all people want to know, again, they're dumbing themselves down and we can't let that happen.
[42:08.500 --> 42:14.900]  We can't be in the information age and allow people to know less and less and less.
[42:14.900 --> 42:20.980]  Is this much screen-suckling making people smarter or is it making people dumber?
[42:21.440 --> 42:27.120]  And I will use some of the same examples I used last time because if anything, this has gotten worse.
[42:27.700 --> 42:28.940]  Oh, did you talk to that person?
[42:29.140 --> 42:30.100]  Yeah, I talked to them.
[42:30.200 --> 42:30.980]  Well, what did they say?
[42:31.240 --> 42:33.200]  Oh, I didn't talk to them, I just emailed them.
[42:34.420 --> 42:37.220]  That's not talking to somebody.
[42:37.680 --> 42:43.900]  Sending an email, not waiting for a reply, and assuming your job is done, wrong.
[42:43.900 --> 42:45.880]  Communication is an equation.
[42:46.240 --> 42:50.560]  You've got to get the other half of the communication or you have not communicated.
[42:51.320 --> 42:59.130]  And just, you know, sitting there day after day, didn't you get my email?
[42:59.370 --> 43:00.390]  Didn't you get my email?
[43:00.570 --> 43:03.270]  I mean, if you're that desperate, call them on the phone.
[43:03.910 --> 43:07.270]  And in the age of instant messaging, it's amazing how this works.
[43:07.450 --> 43:11.450]  You ask somebody something on the phone, they answer you instantly.
[43:12.070 --> 43:15.550]  And you know what you can do instantly after that and I just ask them another question.
[43:15.830 --> 43:16.770]  And they answer it.
[43:16.870 --> 43:17.950]  And you can ask them another question.
[43:18.090 --> 43:24.630]  And you've saved yourself weeks of snitty emails to get more stuff done.
[43:25.630 --> 43:27.530]  An ex-girlfriend of mine in L.A.
[43:27.710 --> 43:31.050]  said she was out at a club seeing a band a while back.
[43:31.050 --> 43:33.010]  And a woman came up to her, chatted her up.
[43:33.090 --> 43:34.290]  They hit it off really well.
[43:34.290 --> 43:35.970]  She tells the other woman her name.
[43:36.150 --> 43:38.410]  Oh, you're my MySpace friend.
[43:38.790 --> 43:40.490]  And then the other woman walked away.
[43:41.010 --> 43:45.470]  It's like, oh, I just didn't want to actually talk to you or find out you were real.
[43:45.630 --> 43:51.490]  I just wanted your picture in my gallery of virtual friends where I feel more comfortable.
[43:51.650 --> 43:55.430]  And, oh, these are my special friends because they never talk back to me.
[43:55.590 --> 43:59.930]  I love my friend collection, my trophy room.
[44:00.470 --> 44:05.650]  It used to be that living in a world of imaginary friends was considered a mental illness.
[44:13.560 --> 44:16.380]  Text, text, texty, text, text, text, text, text, text, text.
[44:16.700 --> 44:20.260]  I'm 20 yards away from you at the mall, but I'm not going to talk to you.
[44:21.660 --> 44:23.600]  Or worse, text, texty, text, text.
[44:23.840 --> 44:24.860]  Jello, where are you?
[44:24.880 --> 44:26.160]  I'm waiting at the train station.
[44:26.240 --> 44:27.080]  I call the person back.
[44:27.420 --> 44:27.760]  Another one.
[44:27.880 --> 44:29.740]  Zip, I'm waiting at the train station.
[44:29.940 --> 44:32.160]  Well, I'm trying to call you, but your phone turned off.
[44:32.300 --> 44:34.280]  Zip, I'm waiting for the train station.
[44:34.620 --> 44:35.940]  Why didn't you text me?
[44:35.940 --> 44:37.460]  I was standing right over there.
[44:37.580 --> 44:40.480]  Well, why didn't you just come up and talk to me and tell me who you were?
[44:41.780 --> 44:42.180]  Dumb.
[44:43.140 --> 44:54.740]  I mean, the California teenagers went on the news and were outraged when the law went through that you couldn't be yapping on your phone while holding your phone to your ear while you're driving, saying, that's not going to stop me.
[44:54.860 --> 44:55.960]  I know my rights.
[44:56.100 --> 45:03.020]  If somebody texts me, I'm going to text them back right then and there, even if I'm driving through a major intersection in mom's SUV.
[45:03.420 --> 45:03.820]  Wham!
[45:05.600 --> 45:17.260]  And, you know, it's interesting though, the language, the text thing is, you know, when you get kind of tired of it after a while but won't admit it, you keep shortening words and shortening words, new abbreviations and new language and all.
[45:17.480 --> 45:20.580]  Maybe it'll be like Chinese and Japanese and Korean characters.
[45:20.580 --> 45:21.660]  Who knows, eventually.
[45:21.900 --> 45:30.400]  But some of these abbreviations, I mean, it feeds this impulse in Americans to abbreviate their brains and abbreviate the amount of time they think, too.
[45:31.880 --> 45:32.520]  Carbohydrates.
[45:33.060 --> 45:35.840]  Very few people knew or cared what that was.
[45:35.980 --> 45:43.540]  But as soon as it was shortened to carbs, everyone was deathly afraid of them for about two years.
[45:44.780 --> 45:58.320]  Now, short attention span America has been treated to Washington Mutual, the bank, shortening their name to WAMU, to be better understood by short attention span people.
[45:59.280 --> 46:02.060]  Hi, I need to get into my account and talk about something.
[46:02.060 --> 46:03.380]  What's your social?
[46:05.660 --> 46:06.420]  What do you mean?
[46:06.680 --> 46:07.740]  What's your social?
[46:08.960 --> 46:10.360]  I don't know what a social is.
[46:11.160 --> 46:12.880]  Social security number.
[46:13.080 --> 46:14.280]  Oh, too many syllables.
[46:14.560 --> 46:15.480]  Now I understand.
[46:15.940 --> 46:17.000]  Okay, fine.
[46:17.660 --> 46:37.120]  I mean, the other hand, there was a research firm called, what, Vasex in Silicon Valley, who did research on some people who both live and work on the net, and concluded that a typical information worker checks their email at least 50 times a day, or over once every 10 minutes,
[46:37.620 --> 46:53.000]  and sends instant messages 77 times a day, and stops at 40 websites, and that all these interruptions and loss of concentration, mostly due to stuff that wasn't that important in the first place, costs U.S.
[46:53.160 --> 46:57.160]  business over $650 billion a year.
[46:57.500 --> 46:59.460]  And people take it home with it, too.
[46:59.640 --> 47:07.180]  You know, laptops on the plane, the child has a toy laptop to imitate their go-go-go mom, laptops at the beach.
[47:07.420 --> 47:11.460]  The Guardian in Britain has come up with a great term for some of this.
[47:11.460 --> 47:16.520]  So I must ask, are you a crack-berry addict?
[47:17.580 --> 47:24.820]  Crack-berry addicts who have to have their blackberry right by their bed or under their pillow, even in the middle of the night?
[47:24.980 --> 47:26.860]  Zzz, you got a text message.
[47:27.100 --> 47:29.640]  Oh, I better answer that right away.
[47:29.900 --> 47:32.520]  Zzz, oh, I better answer that right away.
[47:32.720 --> 47:34.500]  A crack-berry addict.
[47:34.500 --> 47:39.120]  Some people in the psychology field are calling this ringsiety.
[47:40.060 --> 47:51.100]  And even I have discovered that sometimes I feel vibrations in my pocket and reach in and, oh, my God, got me again, phantom phone syndrome.
[47:51.860 --> 47:54.900]  A recognized medical malady now.
[47:56.620 --> 48:04.660]  San Francisco Chronicle reported that so far this year, two professional bloggers have died from lack of sleep.
[48:04.660 --> 48:07.880]  They did stock market ticks or something where seconds count.
[48:08.060 --> 48:12.060]  And a 40-year-old one almost died when he had a heart attack.
[48:12.300 --> 48:21.180]  So I must ask, does the black, does the crack-berry life get you ahead or is the world just passing you by?
[48:21.180 --> 48:33.620]  I mean, and if we keep getting my spaced out, text, text, text, instant this, instant that, we're kind of missing everything else and are that much easier to manipulate.
[48:34.220 --> 48:42.460]  And what are we creating here when the cyber world and instant blipping and blooping is more real than reality?
[48:43.060 --> 48:46.700]  What happens when these people are in charge?
[48:46.700 --> 48:56.180]  An example of what happens when someone is so completely disengaged, they live in a virtual world, all their own, who just bounces from one childish impulse to another.
[48:56.600 --> 48:58.740]  Granted, the origins are different.
[48:59.040 --> 49:02.780]  Perfect example of this when you hand somebody like that something really important.
[49:03.020 --> 49:06.980]  Look no further than the red, white, and blue Caligula himself.
[49:07.320 --> 49:08.620]  George, get me a bush.
[49:09.520 --> 49:15.720]  You know, people are so into Obama, they forget who is still president and could bomb Iran anytime.
[49:17.100 --> 49:21.080]  The problem with the French is they don't have a word for entrepreneur.
[49:26.410 --> 49:28.530]  Some of these are new quotes, too.
[49:28.710 --> 49:32.510]  They stopped printing a lot of them once he was in the White House, but they still keep coming out.
[49:32.750 --> 49:37.390]  If the Iranians were to have a nuclear weapon, they could proliferate.
[49:40.470 --> 49:44.650]  It is clear our nation is reliant upon big foreign oil.
[49:44.650 --> 49:48.390]  More and more of our imports come from overseas.
[49:50.970 --> 49:54.970]  Will the highways on the internet become more few?
[49:56.990 --> 50:02.910]  I know how hard it is for you to put food on your family.
[50:04.850 --> 50:22.070]  I haven't had this much fun with creative mutilation of the English language since my sophomore year in high school when I had this geometry teacher whose parents were from Norway, but he was from Minnesota and talked like all the characters in the Fargo movies.
[50:22.990 --> 50:37.850]  And he had, in the 70s, the bell-bottom 70s, he had baggy Charlie Chaplin pants and a white shirt and a skinny tie with a flannel hunting shirt over it, a disproportionately small, turdly-looking head and wavy widow's puke hair on top.
[50:38.890 --> 50:45.610]  All right, I think Jell is moving away from the topic of Facebook and MySpace and digital technology and things like that.
[50:45.690 --> 50:46.470]  But boy, what a talk.
[50:46.590 --> 50:50.490]  And that went on for two hours, part of the last Hope conference.
[50:50.650 --> 50:51.730]  Any of you guys get to see it?
[50:52.430 --> 50:55.210]  I didn't, but you get both hours when you pledge, right?
[50:55.250 --> 50:55.370]  Oh, yeah.
[50:55.490 --> 50:56.690]  No, definitely, you get both hours.
[50:56.790 --> 50:58.450]  You get everything if you pledge for everything.
[50:58.450 --> 51:03.450]  And if you pledge for the top 10, for only 75, you'll get Jell-O.
[51:03.550 --> 51:08.890]  You'll get the other featured speakers, such as Adam Savage and Kevin Mitnick and Steve Rombon and Steve Levy.
[51:09.070 --> 51:11.570]  And you'll get the social engineering panel.
[51:11.730 --> 51:14.730]  You'll get Laszlo speaking about Grand Theft Auto.
[51:14.730 --> 51:18.430]  And you'll get Mitch Altman speaking about hacking cool things with microcontrollers.
[51:18.510 --> 51:21.870]  You'll get a talk about hacking democracy with electronic voting.
[51:22.650 --> 51:24.770]  And you'll get the negative land talk as well.
[51:24.910 --> 51:26.630]  That's just 10 talks, though.
[51:26.690 --> 51:27.290]  We have 100.
[51:27.290 --> 51:30.050]  So, for 250, you'll get everything.
[51:30.730 --> 51:32.350]  212-209-2950.
[51:32.630 --> 51:35.590]  Again, this is something we're only offering for another 10 minutes or so.
[51:35.790 --> 51:40.450]  So, please, if you want this, you owe it to yourself to call now.
[51:40.450 --> 51:46.290]  If you know somebody who wants it, you owe it to them to either call them and tell them or call for them and give it to them.
[51:46.390 --> 51:47.770]  212-209-2950.
[51:47.950 --> 51:51.390]  I remember we take Visa, MasterCard, American Express, Discover, all that kind of thing.
[51:51.710 --> 51:53.430]  But, boy, what a talk that was.
[51:53.510 --> 51:54.550]  That was just so much fun.
[51:54.630 --> 51:56.050]  Bernie, did you see any of Jell-O?
[51:56.750 --> 51:57.810]  I ducked in and out.
[51:58.010 --> 52:02.850]  And I've got to say, I was really privileged to be at the HOPE conference, like a lot of other people.
[52:02.950 --> 52:12.370]  And I met a lot of WBAI listeners at the HOPE conference, all of whom told me they were having a terrific time and just couldn't get enough of the talks.
[52:12.370 --> 52:16.210]  But, unfortunately, you can't see all the talks there because there's two or three tracks.
[52:16.530 --> 52:22.050]  And you're not going to be able to be in more than one place at a time.
[52:22.270 --> 52:31.170]  So all the WBAI listeners that were at the HOPE conference that missed some of the things and had to sort of toss up, which are they going to see?
[52:31.370 --> 52:32.810]  Because this one's good and this one's good.
[52:32.970 --> 52:41.710]  This is a great opportunity for you listeners to call 212-209-2950 and catch all the stuff that you missed at the HOPE conference.
[52:41.710 --> 52:54.230]  Even if you stayed in the same room for one track, we had three tracks going, if you stayed in the same room, you would have to stay there from nine o'clock in the morning until after midnight nonstop to see everything just in that room.
[52:54.250 --> 52:57.570]  And you probably wouldn't enjoy it that much not moving all that time.
[52:57.710 --> 52:59.710]  This way, you can do it at your leisure.
[52:59.850 --> 53:01.590]  You can take a year to go through all of this.
[53:01.710 --> 53:05.510]  You can have a marathon session, do whatever you feel like doing.
[53:05.690 --> 53:09.190]  But you got to call soon, 212-209-2950.
[53:09.690 --> 53:17.910]  We should thank some people who already, in fact, did get many of these wonderful DVDs, including Jonathan from Edison, New Jersey.
[53:18.450 --> 53:19.350]  Edison, New Jersey.
[53:19.670 --> 53:23.090]  We'd like to apologize to Weston, who we mentioned before.
[53:23.170 --> 53:24.630]  He does not live in Mapple, Minnesota.
[53:24.630 --> 53:26.850]  Yeah, I had a feeling we'd be issuing a retraction for that.
[53:26.950 --> 53:28.010]  Where does he actually live?
[53:28.250 --> 53:29.730]  He lives in Maple Grove, Minnesota.
[53:29.890 --> 53:30.390]  Maple Grove.
[53:30.530 --> 53:32.850]  See, it's a good thing when we read the name sometimes.
[53:32.970 --> 53:38.230]  But you anonymous people might want to keep that in mind because sometimes mistakes are made.
[53:38.230 --> 53:39.710]  Yeah, otherwise it would have been sent to Mapple.
[53:39.950 --> 53:41.310]  Well, the zip code is what matters.
[53:41.570 --> 53:41.750]  That's true.
[53:41.950 --> 53:47.790]  In fact, you can find out more about that kind of thing by watching the postal hacking talk that we have as part of this collection.
[53:48.010 --> 53:52.750]  We cover just about every subject imaginable because hacking knows no boundaries.
[53:53.130 --> 53:55.690]  And that's what a conference like The Last Hope is all about.
[53:55.890 --> 53:57.370]  212-209-2950.
[53:57.550 --> 53:58.490]  Experience it for yourself.
[53:58.490 --> 54:01.470]  We will also thank John who lives in Dublin, Ireland.
[54:01.730 --> 54:02.650]  I've heard of that too.
[54:02.830 --> 54:03.150]  Yes.
[54:03.370 --> 54:03.790]  Amazing.
[54:04.170 --> 54:05.010]  The whole world.
[54:05.010 --> 54:06.310]  And Gerald from Princeton, New Jersey.
[54:06.450 --> 54:07.190]  Gerald from Princeton.
[54:07.330 --> 54:09.330]  Thanks very much for your call, for your support.
[54:09.850 --> 54:13.090]  And thanks to all the other people calling in now and who have called in.
[54:13.230 --> 54:14.730]  We're over the 3,000 mark.
[54:14.730 --> 54:15.970]  So we did better than last week.
[54:16.070 --> 54:16.650]  That was our goal.
[54:16.810 --> 54:17.330]  So great.
[54:19.110 --> 54:20.110]  We're on for another two weeks.
[54:20.150 --> 54:21.510]  We'll be offering different things next week.
[54:21.510 --> 54:23.670]  So if you want the package, call now.
[54:23.830 --> 54:25.410]  212-209-2950.
[54:25.610 --> 54:29.430]  We have three calls on the line now and only about seven minutes left.
[54:29.670 --> 54:30.310]  But not Kevin.
[54:30.350 --> 54:31.990]  You said there were eight volunteers in there?
[54:32.090 --> 54:33.430]  There are eight volunteers down there.
[54:33.510 --> 54:35.370]  So we have right now two calls on the line.
[54:35.450 --> 54:37.390]  So that's six volunteers who are just sitting there.
[54:37.470 --> 54:38.730]  They're sitting there waiting for calls.
[54:38.830 --> 54:39.370]  Mike, you're mistaken.
[54:39.430 --> 54:40.510]  There are three calls on the line.
[54:40.590 --> 54:41.850]  See the third light lighting up?
[54:41.950 --> 54:42.550]  Ah, I see.
[54:43.050 --> 54:43.330]  All right.
[54:43.330 --> 54:43.970]  I'm mistaken.
[54:44.210 --> 54:44.690]  There's four calls.
[54:44.890 --> 54:46.370]  Why can't we see this correctly?
[54:46.530 --> 54:47.450]  Every time I look, it's different.
[54:47.610 --> 54:48.850]  This is a good mistake to make.
[54:48.850 --> 54:50.810]  If you would like to help us make such a mistake.
[54:50.810 --> 54:50.990]  You know what?
[54:50.990 --> 54:51.670]  Not being able to count?
[54:51.910 --> 54:52.270]  Yes.
[54:53.250 --> 54:55.010]  212-209-2950.
[54:55.490 --> 54:55.870]  Five.
[54:56.070 --> 54:57.110]  Now I see five.
[54:57.350 --> 54:58.250]  Am I seeing double?
[54:58.530 --> 54:59.530]  Now we're up to 3,400.
[55:00.590 --> 55:00.990]  All right.
[55:01.210 --> 55:01.490]  All right.
[55:01.750 --> 55:03.230]  Maybe we've gone too far.
[55:03.430 --> 55:05.110]  Maybe we're bringing in too much.
[55:05.330 --> 55:05.850]  Too many calls.
[55:06.010 --> 55:06.350]  Look at this.
[55:06.470 --> 55:08.090]  It's like five calls on the line now.
[55:08.150 --> 55:09.670]  Well, they are making this station...
[55:09.670 --> 55:12.010]  They're keeping this station free from commercials.
[55:12.310 --> 55:12.410]  Right.
[55:12.450 --> 55:19.930]  And I think it's one thing I can't stand anymore is all those commercials everywhere on the streets, on the TV, on radio, on the internet.
[55:19.930 --> 55:20.750]  Everything's blinking.
[55:21.030 --> 55:24.210]  You tune into this station, you know you're not going to get commercials.
[55:24.210 --> 55:28.890]  But people do say that we interrupt our fundraising occasionally to have regular programming.
[55:28.930 --> 55:29.830]  It's gotten to that stage.
[55:29.950 --> 55:31.010]  We're fundraising a lot.
[55:31.370 --> 55:33.130]  And yeah, you know, that is a sad fact.
[55:33.130 --> 55:34.190]  But ask yourself this.
[55:34.230 --> 55:40.410]  Would you rather hear commercials or would you rather hear us do our best to try and get you to call to support the place and be a part of it yourselves?
[55:40.950 --> 55:42.450]  Because there really isn't a choice.
[55:42.650 --> 55:44.550]  At this point, this is a reality.
[55:44.550 --> 55:46.250]  We have to do this to survive.
[55:46.250 --> 55:48.290]  And this is the thing with commercials.
[55:48.550 --> 55:51.250]  When you listen to commercial radio, you're paying for that.
[55:51.390 --> 56:01.230]  Whether you like, you know, whatever commercial radio station or not, you're paying for it if you buy products that are made by these companies and you almost have to in this society.
[56:02.290 --> 56:06.630]  But WBII is unique because we stay on the air only if you want us to.
[56:06.990 --> 56:11.730]  If the audience doesn't want us to stay on the air, we will go off the air.
[56:11.830 --> 56:12.170]  That's right.
[56:12.350 --> 56:14.050]  And something else will go on the air in our place.
[56:14.230 --> 56:14.610]  Yes.
[56:14.850 --> 56:21.870]  And if you want to vote to keep us on the air, this is sort of a vote where you have to pay for.
[56:21.990 --> 56:24.610]  It's 212-209-2950.
[56:24.950 --> 56:25.590]  And we'll thank you.
[56:25.710 --> 56:30.390]  We'll also bribe you for your vote with these wonderful DVDs we've been talking about.
[56:30.390 --> 56:34.810]  Think of it as an investment to prevent the sounds of Britney Spears from permeating on these airwaves.
[56:34.830 --> 56:36.290]  Because that will happen at some point.
[56:36.390 --> 56:41.410]  If this station goes down the tubes, guaranteed, somehow, Britney Spears will be played on this frequency.
[56:41.550 --> 56:43.090]  When she comes out with a country sound.
[56:43.250 --> 56:44.750]  Well, if we go country, yeah.
[56:44.890 --> 56:48.130]  Or if we go, you know, album-oriented rock or American...
[56:48.130 --> 56:50.650]  I don't know what they call things these days, but it's all garbage and crap.
[56:51.010 --> 56:53.430]  And you can hear it in every other radio station around.
[56:53.650 --> 56:55.650]  This commercial, compressed sound.
[56:55.770 --> 57:00.290]  And, you know, even with commercial radio stations, they may not even be local to your area.
[57:00.390 --> 57:00.650]  Right?
[57:00.710 --> 57:01.430]  You have a lot of...
[57:01.430 --> 57:02.070]  Oh, no.
[57:02.170 --> 57:02.790]  Of course, yeah.
[57:03.150 --> 57:04.310]  They've never even been to your city.
[57:04.490 --> 57:05.190]  ...farms at this point.
[57:05.330 --> 57:12.310]  They are somewhere, and they're creating a radio program, and then it's sent to your city.
[57:12.470 --> 57:12.630]  Yeah.
[57:12.650 --> 57:13.550]  And they pretend.
[57:13.750 --> 57:17.430]  They pretend to be giving local weather forecasts, but they're not even in the same place.
[57:17.430 --> 57:17.990]  They don't care.
[57:17.990 --> 57:22.110]  If something happens, something bad happens, they can't tell you what's happening because they're not even there.
[57:22.430 --> 57:30.970]  Here, if, say, God forbid, the Dow Jones plummets, well, we're right here on Wall Street, so we can say, hey, yeah, there's people going crazy outside.
[57:31.490 --> 57:33.650]  And, boy, that's something to look at.
[57:33.650 --> 57:34.270]  And it really was.
[57:34.350 --> 57:38.030]  When I walked down Wall Street, there's all these news crews everywhere interviewing people.
[57:38.170 --> 57:39.330]  And I wanted to say, you know what?
[57:39.330 --> 57:40.130]  I think it's great.
[57:40.230 --> 57:49.330]  I think it's great that the stock market is plunging because it shows everybody in this country how screwed up the economy is and all the damage that's been done over the last eight years.
[57:49.510 --> 57:51.710]  And maybe that will make them wake up for a change.
[57:51.770 --> 57:53.590]  But you can't say that on commercial radio, can you?
[57:53.950 --> 57:54.910]  No, you really can't.
[57:55.230 --> 57:57.450]  No, because the advertisers won't like it.
[57:57.610 --> 57:58.470]  Right, right.
[57:58.610 --> 57:59.430]  They want you to buy things.
[57:59.470 --> 58:00.930]  I just said it here on this station.
[58:01.450 --> 58:02.230]  And I'm still here.
[58:02.430 --> 58:06.650]  There's behind your head a list of seven things you must not say, and that is not on the list.
[58:06.670 --> 58:07.470]  No, that's not on the list.
[58:07.510 --> 58:08.770]  And that's not our list either.
[58:08.830 --> 58:09.650]  That's the FCC's list.
[58:09.770 --> 58:10.590]  But that's just the way it goes.
[58:10.850 --> 58:12.130]  212-209-2950.
[58:12.310 --> 58:12.810]  We're out of time.
[58:13.230 --> 58:15.050]  I want to thank everybody for calling in.
[58:15.170 --> 58:19.590]  I want to thank people for supporting this place over the years and hopefully for many years to come.
[58:20.230 --> 58:22.230]  Again, for a few more minutes, you can get the package.
[58:22.230 --> 58:25.010]  $250 every single DVD from the Last Hope Conference.
[58:25.130 --> 58:26.510]  It's 100 DVDs right there.
[58:26.570 --> 58:28.110]  You'll also get an off-the-hook t-shirt.
[58:28.890 --> 58:31.790]  For $125, you'll get 20 of those DVDs.
[58:31.850 --> 58:33.970]  For $75, you'll get 10.
[58:34.730 --> 58:35.170]  Right?
[58:35.430 --> 58:36.250]  And you get a shirt.
[58:36.430 --> 58:36.810]  That's right.
[58:36.810 --> 58:38.350]  And you get a shirt for 30 and above.
[58:38.550 --> 58:40.450]  212-209-2950.
[58:40.630 --> 58:42.070]  Thanks again, everybody, for calling in.
[58:42.330 --> 58:44.390]  We'll see you next week with more fun stuff.
[58:44.390 --> 58:49.990]  Let's go out with another phone-oriented song from the Penguin Cafe Orchestra.
[58:52.050 --> 58:53.470]  Telephones and rubber bands.