[00:00.020 --> 00:18.780]  W-B-A-I, W-B-A-I, W-B-A-I, New York, New York, New York, New York, New York, New York.
[00:18.940 --> 00:22.660]  We're the New Orleans Jazz Vipers at WBAI New York City.
[00:24.940 --> 00:26.840]  And this is WBAI New York.
[00:27.000 --> 00:29.500]  The time is exactly 7 o'clock.
[00:30.020 --> 00:32.180]  Time, once again, for Off the Hook.
[00:56.590 --> 01:02.010]  And a very
[01:56.430 --> 01:56.840]  good evening, everybody.
[01:57.000 --> 01:58.440]  The program is Off the Hook.
[01:58.440 --> 02:01.740]  Emanuel Goldstein here with you on this Wednesday evening.
[02:01.860 --> 02:02.900]  The Wednesday before Thanksgiving.
[02:03.360 --> 02:04.580]  American Thanksgiving, that is.
[02:05.520 --> 02:07.430]  And that means we have a skeleton crew tonight.
[02:07.840 --> 02:08.930]  And I like it that way.
[02:10.270 --> 02:12.520]  I like not having a studio filled with people.
[02:12.660 --> 02:16.210]  We only have a couple people here now, but they're quite important anyway.
[02:16.710 --> 02:17.330]  Voltaire is here.
[02:17.660 --> 02:18.150]  As always.
[02:18.600 --> 02:19.830]  And there's not Kevin.
[02:20.120 --> 02:20.460]  Hello.
[02:20.780 --> 02:21.990]  And Jim joins us again.
[02:22.210 --> 02:22.430]  Hello.
[02:22.430 --> 02:23.150]  How are you doing?
[02:23.830 --> 02:25.990]  And down in Philadelphia, Bernie S.
[02:26.490 --> 02:28.490]  Happy Thanksgiving from Philadelphia.
[02:28.680 --> 02:29.680]  Jim sounds like his old self.
[02:29.800 --> 02:30.160]  He does.
[02:30.240 --> 02:30.830]  He certainly does.
[02:30.990 --> 02:32.060]  And it's good to have him here.
[02:32.240 --> 02:33.900]  Getting better every time we see him.
[02:34.210 --> 02:37.270]  And now we've just got to work on some other things.
[02:37.270 --> 02:38.280]  Getting him connected to the Internet.
[02:38.620 --> 02:41.100]  And getting some regular speech therapy.
[02:41.100 --> 02:45.860]  And you'll be 100% back from all the suffering of the last year.
[02:45.860 --> 02:48.540]  And it's just great to see that progress being made.
[02:48.680 --> 02:49.460]  Inspirational, in fact.
[02:50.180 --> 02:51.880]  So, big warm welcome to Jim here.
[02:52.740 --> 02:56.240]  Now, we have all kinds of things going on in the world, as we always do.
[02:57.940 --> 03:03.300]  Apparently, this news coming in today, Al-Qaeda, they're trying to cause trouble again.
[03:03.300 --> 03:06.280]  They're thinking about targeting, apparently, New York trains.
[03:06.540 --> 03:07.220]  Now, this is...
[03:07.220 --> 03:09.300]  I believe, Bernie, we were talking about this before.
[03:09.860 --> 03:11.520]  Somebody was eavesdropping on them.
[03:11.670 --> 03:12.730]  Now, that's not right either.
[03:12.920 --> 03:13.860]  Two wrongs don't make a right.
[03:13.860 --> 03:16.900]  But somebody was overhearing what they were saying to each other.
[03:17.180 --> 03:27.080]  And they were talking about, wouldn't it be nice if we could get onto various trains and blow them up with maybe people inside and cause all kinds of a ruckus in New York City.
[03:27.390 --> 03:29.340]  And they said that, I think, back in September.
[03:29.920 --> 03:34.740]  And now that we have finished listening, we're saying, wow, we should take more security.
[03:34.860 --> 03:35.580]  Or something like that.
[03:35.700 --> 03:39.600]  Obviously, what I'm giving you is an edited version of the whole thing.
[03:39.700 --> 03:41.080]  But that's pretty much the gist of it, right?
[03:41.080 --> 03:46.780]  Yeah, our authorities have said this had not gone past the talking stage.
[03:46.960 --> 03:55.580]  But they still felt the need to send additional armed guards to Penn Station today in case somebody started talking dangerously.
[03:56.010 --> 03:57.730]  Yeah, well, I'm very curious.
[03:57.730 --> 04:00.640]  And maybe somebody out there, one of our government leakers.
[04:01.010 --> 04:02.560]  That's not really the best word, is it?
[04:02.980 --> 04:07.510]  One of the people that, you know, feeds us information occasionally from various governmental agencies.
[04:07.510 --> 04:09.840]  And again, thank you very much for that, especially you, Stan.
[04:10.240 --> 04:10.360]  Oops.
[04:12.230 --> 04:13.180]  Yeah, just kidding there.
[04:15.320 --> 04:16.900]  Yeah, I'd like to know how they do that.
[04:16.940 --> 04:17.880]  How do they listen in?
[04:17.960 --> 04:18.840]  What's the chatter?
[04:19.000 --> 04:25.000]  Is the chatter simply maybe a blog with some feedback from people being obnoxious trolls or things like that?
[04:25.020 --> 04:26.380]  Is that what the chatter is?
[04:26.900 --> 04:27.880]  Who actually listens?
[04:27.880 --> 04:29.170]  How do they get this information?
[04:29.420 --> 04:32.800]  Are they, you know, have a glass up to a wall or something?
[04:32.800 --> 04:36.340]  I think they get them to drink a little too much and then they get them...
[04:36.340 --> 04:41.840]  I mean, I know that they're really, like, religiously observant Muslims, but still, everybody has to drink once in a while.
[04:41.980 --> 04:45.960]  So they're like, yeah, so they have too much to drink and then they end up sighing on them.
[04:46.520 --> 04:48.260]  Cass, that's one theory, I suppose.
[04:48.800 --> 04:49.860]  Bernie, do you have a theory on this?
[04:50.320 --> 04:53.960]  Well, we don't know what the exact channel was that this chatter occurred on.
[04:54.120 --> 04:56.940]  It could have been landline telephone, cell phone...
[04:57.580 --> 04:59.760]  Or even an IRC channel, perhaps.
[04:59.760 --> 05:09.300]  An IRC channel, it could, you know, it could be anything, but it's not really well shared between government agencies.
[05:09.500 --> 05:10.700]  Oh my goodness, I just thought of something.
[05:10.760 --> 05:13.170]  What if it's the Al-Qaeda channel on our IRC network?
[05:13.240 --> 05:17.660]  We do have one, Al-Qaeda, pound Al-Qaeda on IRC.2600.net.
[05:17.820 --> 05:18.480]  Is that one word?
[05:18.600 --> 05:26.200]  Well, I'm not, you know what, I'm not even going to spell it because now everyone's going to want to go there and mess everything up.
[05:26.200 --> 05:34.420]  Okay, if people are actually going to that IRC channel and paying attention to what people are saying there and using that as chatter, let me just tell you, you're barking up the wrong tree.
[05:34.420 --> 05:36.620]  That's just there for entertainment purposes only.
[05:36.800 --> 05:39.020]  Yeah, take a look at the free note Al-Qaeda channel.
[05:39.160 --> 05:39.800]  That's the real Al-Qaeda channel.
[05:39.800 --> 05:41.340]  Those are a bunch of posers, those people there.
[05:41.920 --> 05:50.960]  Okay, well, in any event, now that I've gotten everybody into trouble, the turmoil is really hitting the overseas in Mumbai right now as we speak.
[05:51.300 --> 05:53.600]  Of course, that city has been attacked multiple times today.
[05:54.140 --> 05:58.020]  And in fact, there's a hostage situation going on right now in an American...
[06:00.260 --> 06:01.200]  What's the right word for it?
[06:01.240 --> 06:02.940]  A hotel where lots of Americans hang out in?
[06:04.320 --> 06:04.920]  Tourist hotel.
[06:05.060 --> 06:05.600]  Tourist hotel.
[06:06.080 --> 06:08.700]  There's all kinds of bad things going on right now.
[06:08.880 --> 06:16.480]  So we were talking before the show, Bernie, about how this might affect, well, obviously affect people in India, but it could affect us here in the United States as well.
[06:16.480 --> 06:17.860]  Well, sure.
[06:18.060 --> 06:19.700]  I mean, the folks in India get to look.
[06:19.780 --> 06:27.220]  This is probably somewhat equivalent to their 9-11 now, where dozens of...
[06:27.220 --> 06:32.340]  Well, Westerners were targeted, but British and Americans were rounded up by these alleged terrorists.
[06:34.460 --> 06:45.340]  But I'm sure that the Indian authorities are going to launch major crackdowns on civil rights there and increase surveillance manyfold.
[06:45.340 --> 06:48.140]  Well, of course, civil rights isn't what attacked them.
[06:48.380 --> 06:51.860]  It's terrorists, and they shouldn't be cracking down on civil rights as a result.
[06:51.980 --> 06:58.100]  In fact, I don't think we even know which terrorists these are, what they represent exactly, and why they picked Mumbai to do this.
[06:58.320 --> 07:04.360]  It's a new group that hasn't been identified until today, and nobody seems to know who they are.
[07:05.040 --> 07:06.040]  Or what they want.
[07:06.160 --> 07:11.880]  The latest guesses were that it's like a homegrown Indian, like, fundamentalist Islamic group.
[07:12.420 --> 07:18.700]  Well, there's all kinds of theories being bandied about, but it's interesting times happening, as always.
[07:18.860 --> 07:25.760]  Unfortunately, it's violent, interesting times as well, and it may not be over, so keep an eye on that as well.
[07:26.800 --> 07:28.880]  Okay, so what else has been going on in the world?
[07:28.920 --> 07:35.920]  All kinds of security issues, as always, we have to discuss here on this particular program, privacy issues.
[07:35.920 --> 07:38.300]  And, well, how about this?
[07:38.300 --> 07:40.960]  This is something that we didn't talk about last week that has been in the news.
[07:41.420 --> 07:46.460]  Apparently, one of the big security concerns in this country centers around prisons.
[07:47.000 --> 07:52.780]  And one of the big problems in prisons these days is the prevalence of cell phones.
[07:53.060 --> 07:53.600]  That's right.
[07:54.240 --> 08:00.900]  According to this story, New Jersey prison officials are trying a new approach to detect illegal cell phones among the inmate population.
[08:01.220 --> 08:02.260]  You ready for this?
[08:02.420 --> 08:04.220]  Cell phone sniffing dogs.
[08:04.780 --> 08:05.500]  That's right.
[08:06.280 --> 08:12.620]  I don't know how they get dogs to do this, but they actually have trained dogs to find cell phones by sniffing them.
[08:13.180 --> 08:25.340]  Now, according to the New Jersey Department of Corrections, they say other methods that prisons use to detect illegal cell phones, such as metal detectors or machines that track usage, require the phones to be turned on.
[08:25.440 --> 08:26.600]  Now, I don't get that at all.
[08:26.780 --> 08:30.160]  How does a metal detector only detect a phone if it's turned on?
[08:30.200 --> 08:32.520]  I think they might be a little mixed up over there.
[08:33.480 --> 08:36.640]  And of course, I guess a phone doesn't have to be metal.
[08:36.660 --> 08:40.600]  So maybe it can get through a metal detector if it's made in the proper way.
[08:41.100 --> 08:43.980]  But apparently, dogs are trained to detect the scent of the phone itself.
[08:44.810 --> 08:49.340]  217 cell phones were confiscated in New Jersey prisons since October of last year.
[08:50.220 --> 08:56.480]  And they're considered contraband because they can be used to transmit pictures or sensitive information about a facility's layout.
[08:56.480 --> 09:00.620]  They can be used to conduct drug deals or other illicit activities.
[09:00.620 --> 09:02.710]  That's what communications is all about.
[09:03.260 --> 09:17.220]  Now, there's also an additional problem to this because these prisons would like to be able to block cell phone signals and prevent them from being used at all, make them just useless lumps of either metal or plastic.
[09:17.220 --> 09:20.400]  But apparently, they can't do that because it's illegal.
[09:21.260 --> 09:21.710]  Interesting.
[09:21.950 --> 09:22.240]  Not entirely.
[09:22.620 --> 09:24.140]  Well, tell us the facts, Bernie.
[09:24.720 --> 09:30.020]  Well, they would like to set up cell phone jammers, which some of us on this program have experimented with in the past.
[09:31.680 --> 09:37.920]  And the FCC won't let them because this is a federal jurisdiction thing, the airwaves.
[09:38.100 --> 09:40.940]  The FCC will not let the prison authorities...
[09:40.940 --> 09:50.380]  Primarily, Texas is really arguing for this because they found a bunch of cell phones on their death row and some congressman was called by someone on death row and threatened.
[09:50.620 --> 09:51.560]  And it's really out of hand.
[09:51.720 --> 09:55.340]  They found hundreds and hundreds of cell phones this past year in Texas prisons.
[09:55.580 --> 09:56.340]  So it's really out of hand.
[09:56.440 --> 09:57.840]  Texas wants to set up cell phone jammers.
[09:58.040 --> 09:59.220]  The FCC won't let them.
[09:59.220 --> 10:08.680]  Even the Cellular Telecommunications Industry Association, the CTIA, they're totally against this, saying this could block legitimate calls, maybe by guards.
[10:08.820 --> 10:10.700]  But I don't think guards are allowed to have cell phones in there.
[10:10.840 --> 10:20.740]  But they could do this legally if they would just shield the prison cells or the prison itself with a copper shielding, a so-called Faraday cage.
[10:21.080 --> 10:26.780]  No RF signals could come and go, but that would probably prevent the two-way radios that the guards use from working.
[10:26.920 --> 10:28.240]  So it's a sticky problem.
[10:28.240 --> 10:29.880]  I have a solution to the problem.
[10:30.080 --> 10:39.920]  Do you remember during the campaign how there was this issue with the McCain camp or wherever he was hanging out?
[10:40.040 --> 10:41.440]  They didn't have service there.
[10:41.540 --> 10:50.900]  So I think it was T-Mobile and maybe Verizon or some other company came in and actually installed transmitters free of charge so that the McCain camp could communicate.
[10:51.060 --> 10:51.380]  Do you remember that?
[10:51.660 --> 10:52.540]  AT&T.
[10:52.540 --> 10:53.180]  AT&T.
[10:53.600 --> 10:58.560]  The Secret Service was really concerned that they couldn't use their cell phones there to do their protective stuff.
[10:59.360 --> 11:05.580]  So they sort of made an informal call to AT&T Wireless, who then said, oh, okay, we'll get on it.
[11:05.620 --> 11:11.040]  And they brought in what's called a cow, cellular on wheels.
[11:11.220 --> 11:13.420]  It's basically a cell site that's mounted on the truck.
[11:13.580 --> 11:16.080]  They can bring it in, hook it up to power, and use a generator.
[11:16.080 --> 11:22.460]  And that was set up during the last couple of months of the McCain campaign right near his ranch in Arizona.
[11:23.340 --> 11:27.460]  Presumably, that cow took a walk right after November 4th.
[11:27.540 --> 11:27.660]  Right.
[11:27.740 --> 11:32.060]  So now you have this rather large area that we know doesn't get cell service.
[11:32.380 --> 11:34.000]  And it's not in use right now.
[11:34.000 --> 11:37.160]  So basically, why not simply transfer all the prisoners there?
[11:37.620 --> 11:38.740]  Oh, you just transfer the cow.
[11:38.740 --> 11:39.100]  Sorry.
[11:39.240 --> 11:39.420]  Go ahead.
[11:39.580 --> 11:41.660]  We just transfer the cow to the Texas prison.
[11:43.020 --> 11:43.500]  Yeah.
[11:43.500 --> 11:43.760]  No.
[11:43.760 --> 11:45.980]  That's exactly the opposite effect that we want, though.
[11:46.100 --> 11:47.840]  That gives them cell service.
[11:49.020 --> 11:51.500]  The idea is that the prison shouldn't have cell service.
[11:51.580 --> 11:54.980]  But I think if we move everybody to the McCain camp, then everyone's...
[11:54.980 --> 11:58.400]  Well, the prisoners aren't happy, but at least they're not on the cell phone all the time.
[11:58.680 --> 11:59.560]  It's just an idea.
[11:59.800 --> 11:59.900]  Overcrowding.
[12:00.280 --> 12:01.420]  Yeah, there'll be overcrowding, too.
[12:01.420 --> 12:09.800]  I'm sure there are other rich people that have large amounts of land that don't get cell service that would be happy to donate the land in the interest of national security and various other things.
[12:10.260 --> 12:10.600]  All right.
[12:10.660 --> 12:11.980]  Well, we can talk about that later, I'm sure.
[12:11.980 --> 12:16.040]  But there's all sorts of other things to discuss tonight, including...
[12:16.040 --> 12:17.420]  I was looking at the...
[12:18.900 --> 12:23.180]  Since I'm back in this country now, I was in Brazil last week, and that was a lot of fun.
[12:23.260 --> 12:25.580]  Thanks to everybody over there for showing me a great time.
[12:25.940 --> 12:29.120]  But I could not access the website .gov.gov.
[12:29.120 --> 12:29.780]  It's blocked.
[12:29.920 --> 12:36.020]  It's blocked in countries outside the United States, except I understand in Canada, because Canada apparently is considered part of the United States.
[12:36.020 --> 12:38.720]  So you can get to .gov.gov.
[12:38.820 --> 12:44.020]  And by the way, if you want to know how to actually spell that, it's D-O-T-G-O-V dot G-O-V.
[12:44.220 --> 12:45.340]  That's the right way to get there.
[12:45.820 --> 12:50.820]  What that is, that's a site all about government domain registration and services.
[12:50.820 --> 12:52.560]  Gives you the rules and regulations.
[12:53.240 --> 12:58.120]  Now, I'll just read you a little bit of this so that you have an idea of what that top-level domain is all about.
[12:58.120 --> 13:01.900]  These are websites and email sites that end in .gov.
[13:02.600 --> 13:10.920]  Domain names such as gsa.gov are used in websites and email addresses to uniquely identify computers and networks.
[13:11.120 --> 13:16.120]  The domain name is the core of an organization's or program's internet identity, blah, blah, blah.
[13:16.500 --> 13:30.420]  To preserve the integrity of the .gov namespace, .gov domains are limited to United States government organizations at the federal, native sovereign nation, state, and local level, and U.S.
[13:30.980 --> 13:41.500]  Now, we could get into a discussion about why only the United States gets to use .gov and everybody else has to use their two-letter country domain after their .gov or whatever else, but we won't.
[13:42.040 --> 13:44.760]  Here are registrations that qualify for a .gov domain.
[13:45.020 --> 13:45.600]  U.S.
[13:46.060 --> 14:07.240]  governmental departments, programs, and agencies on the federal level, federally recognized Indian tribes, and they get the .nsn.gov domain, state governmental entities slash programs, cities and townships represented by an elected body of officials, counties and parishes represented by an elected body of officials,
[14:07.480 --> 14:08.160]  and U.S.
[14:08.980 --> 14:28.180]  Now, some registrations that do not qualify for a .gov domain include international organizations, commercial firms, privately owned organizations, military entities except in special cases, local, that is city, county, township, or parish government programs or initiatives,
[14:28.680 --> 14:37.900]  cities, townships, counties, parishes, and other local entities that are not represented by an elected body of officials.
[14:37.900 --> 14:43.000]  So, there's a lot that you can't get as .gov.
[14:44.380 --> 14:47.080]  The thing is, this is what intrigues me here.
[14:47.080 --> 14:51.020]  I was doing some exploring and looking at various sites.
[14:51.100 --> 14:53.580]  I know we discussed this in a couple of shows.
[14:54.160 --> 14:58.100]  There is a site known as GOP.gov.
[14:58.260 --> 15:01.100]  Now, GOP being the Republican Party.
[15:01.100 --> 15:08.200]  Now, I cannot find anywhere, we discussed change.gov, the Obama transition site.
[15:08.420 --> 15:12.800]  I think that does qualify because they are a U.S.
[15:13.160 --> 15:16.540]  governmental department program and agency on a federal level, at least at this stage.
[15:16.700 --> 15:20.180]  They're a transitional department, I suppose.
[15:20.380 --> 15:25.160]  But the Republican Party, that's simply a political party.
[15:25.160 --> 15:39.840]  Now, on the website, if you go to GOP.gov, and actually, this is perhaps the first of many installments I'd like to have, where we call it .gov site of the week or something like that, where basically, every week, we try and find an interesting .gov site and talk about it.
[15:40.040 --> 15:41.820]  This week, it's GOP.gov.
[15:42.280 --> 15:47.560]  They define themselves not as the Republican Party, but as the House Republican Conference.
[15:47.940 --> 15:52.960]  And they say the House Republican Conference is the organizational body for all GOP members of the U.S.
[15:53.040 --> 15:53.780]  House of Representatives.
[15:53.780 --> 16:08.440]  As such, the conference is responsible for electing the House Republican leadership, approving GOP member committee assignments, managing leadership-driven floor debates, and executing a communication strategy both within the conference and with the outside media.
[16:08.640 --> 16:14.900]  So let me ask you, Bernie, do you think GOP.gov meets the qualifications to get a .gov domain?
[16:15.200 --> 16:26.720]  Well, if you go to the qualifications on GOP.gov, it looks like the grand old party, the Republican Party is not eligible, because it's not an elected body, and it's such a stretch.
[16:26.920 --> 16:27.960]  Watch what you say, Bernie.
[16:28.060 --> 16:28.780]  Why are they coming for you?
[16:28.980 --> 16:29.420]  Be careful.
[16:29.980 --> 16:30.840]  I'm used to it.
[16:31.220 --> 16:31.520]  All right.
[16:31.880 --> 16:36.120]  The thing is, if you go to GOP.gov, you're going to see some rather...
[16:36.120 --> 16:45.380]  On the homepage, you'll see a lot of strident politicizing, already denigrating the Obama, the forthcoming Obama administration.
[16:45.380 --> 16:51.200]  It's a blatant political site from a body that has not been elected.
[16:51.720 --> 16:58.980]  And I haven't been able to find a Democratic Party website under a .gov domain.
[16:58.980 --> 17:01.220]  I was looking at House Republican Conference.
[17:01.340 --> 17:03.060]  You figure there must be a House Democratic Conference.
[17:03.260 --> 17:07.030]  And I couldn't find any site that was similar to this.
[17:07.900 --> 17:10.400]  So, yeah, it's a legitimate question.
[17:10.580 --> 17:14.230]  Why is there a GOP.gov and there's not something similar with the Democrats?
[17:14.300 --> 17:16.640]  And also, you know, there's more than two parties in this country.
[17:16.790 --> 17:19.920]  Shouldn't there be a maybe GP.gov for Green Party?
[17:20.300 --> 17:24.620]  There are other parties, and they should have the same rights as the GOP.
[17:24.620 --> 17:25.750]  So where is that?
[17:25.840 --> 17:26.510]  Where is that domain?
[17:26.510 --> 17:28.800]  Anybody can really start a party.
[17:29.140 --> 17:30.340]  Well, let's start a party.
[17:30.540 --> 17:34.800]  We'll start a party called the Hacker Party, and that will get us Hacker.gov.
[17:35.160 --> 17:36.700]  All right, now we have a project.
[17:36.730 --> 17:37.640]  We have a project.
[17:37.680 --> 17:38.680]  And I'm serious about this.
[17:38.680 --> 17:39.160]  I'm serious.
[17:39.900 --> 17:46.420]  We make a political party, and we define ourselves in various ways, and then we demand.
[17:46.420 --> 17:53.040]  We demand our .gov domain because apparently it's good enough for GOP, so why can't we do something like this?
[17:53.100 --> 17:54.970]  And this isn't just to show them up.
[17:54.970 --> 17:59.420]  So I'm pretty serious about putting the hacker perspective into government.
[17:59.620 --> 18:03.140]  I know that Sweden has the Pirate Party.
[18:03.140 --> 18:04.460]  Pirate Party, yes, the Pirate Party.
[18:04.480 --> 18:05.840]  You want to do Pirate.gov too?
[18:05.840 --> 18:06.360]  We can do that.
[18:06.480 --> 18:10.740]  Well, we have an American affiliate at the Pirate Party, which has been around for like two years.
[18:10.860 --> 18:12.360]  I don't know if they're still active, but...
[18:13.240 --> 18:16.380]  We can get the Sensible Party and the Silly Party and all kinds of parties.
[18:16.500 --> 18:17.920]  It'll be great fun for everybody.
[18:18.260 --> 18:20.820]  So that's our .gov side of the week, GOP.gov.
[18:20.820 --> 18:23.200]  Tell us if you think it qualifies or not.
[18:23.660 --> 18:25.300]  Bernie, what about Change.gov?
[18:25.460 --> 18:28.860]  Do you think Barack Obama's transition site qualifies for .gov?
[18:29.290 --> 18:36.620]  Well, he was elected, both from a delegate standpoint and by popular vote.
[18:37.490 --> 18:45.360]  So, and he was given, you know, the full top-secret intelligence briefings by the president's staff and all that.
[18:45.360 --> 18:47.180]  So I think it qualifies.
[18:47.840 --> 18:48.360]  All right.
[18:48.540 --> 18:49.820]  Well, that's good then.
[18:50.000 --> 18:50.460]  Go ahead, Parker.
[18:50.500 --> 18:53.040]  Let's not forget about the .us domain name.
[18:53.470 --> 18:55.260]  Yeah, anyone can get a .us though.
[18:55.480 --> 19:06.540]  Yeah, but it seems like a lot of like other political organizations and like, they don't want to make it contentious, so they'll make it like, you know, Cousinage at Cousinage.us.
[19:06.900 --> 19:07.200]  Yeah.
[19:07.260 --> 19:18.580]  Well, I mean, if you're not part of the government, I guess you have to get some other top-level domain or if you're not part of some kind of political entity that's in the governmental system.
[19:18.600 --> 19:18.960]  I don't know.
[19:19.100 --> 19:21.640]  We have to make sure it's fair.
[19:21.740 --> 19:23.240]  Everyone's treated the same way.
[19:23.540 --> 19:27.340]  Okay, let's move on to some other interesting stories going on.
[19:27.420 --> 19:28.440]  Now, this also happened.
[19:28.500 --> 19:33.560]  Speaking of Barack Obama, his cell phone records apparently were breached.
[19:33.960 --> 19:37.120]  What happened was, and this is according to Verizon.
[19:37.120 --> 19:47.640]  Verizon came forward and said this, that the personal wireless account of President-elect Barack Obama had been accessed by employees not authorized to do so.
[19:48.620 --> 19:55.200]  The appropriate federal law enforcement authorities have been contacted, according to the CEO of Verizon.
[19:56.060 --> 20:05.060]  And the Secret Service was notified because, well, it concerned a presidential candidate at the time.
[20:05.060 --> 20:18.640]  Now, according to authorities and CEOs and people like that, anyone viewing the records likely would have been able to see phone numbers and the frequency of calls that Obama made, but nobody was monitoring voicemail or anything like that.
[20:18.880 --> 20:24.640]  Now, Verizon Wireless has fired the workers that supposedly did this in the first place.
[20:24.720 --> 20:30.300]  Now, I know, Bernie, we went back and forth on this a little bit about who's actually to blame here.
[20:30.300 --> 20:34.400]  And obviously, the Verizon employees did something they shouldn't do.
[20:34.530 --> 20:37.600]  What strikes me is that, is this really anything new?
[20:37.720 --> 20:45.560]  Is there something different going on here that has been going on for decades, where phone company employees get access to all kinds of customer data?
[20:46.260 --> 20:47.340]  No, this isn't new.
[20:47.440 --> 20:51.980]  It's been going on since phone companies existed, until there was automatic billing records, at least.
[20:52.080 --> 20:57.440]  But what bothers me is that Verizon was very closed-mouthed about how this actually happened.
[20:57.440 --> 21:09.720]  Like, what department, what were the titles of the employees who did this, the legal act, what were the job responsibilities, and what is Verizon doing specifically to prevent this from reoccurring?
[21:09.820 --> 21:13.260]  It was just a policy thing, a human resources policy.
[21:13.420 --> 21:15.300]  Obviously, that doesn't work.
[21:15.340 --> 21:17.500]  I think there should be a technical policy put in place.
[21:17.680 --> 21:20.580]  For instance, I have an account with an ING Direct.
[21:20.740 --> 21:21.860]  It's an online bank.
[21:21.860 --> 21:27.400]  And when you call them on the phone, you can only talk, you can only, they don't have an automated system when you call.
[21:27.540 --> 21:34.680]  You talk to a live person, and then when you ask to do your account information, they say, okay, hold on, we're going to transfer you to the automated system.
[21:34.800 --> 21:44.720]  And then you enter, you have to enter your PIN code then, and then after you're authenticated, it transfers you back to the customer service representative, who never sees or hears your PIN code.
[21:44.980 --> 21:48.480]  Now, obviously, Verizon doesn't have something like that, but I think they should.
[21:48.480 --> 21:50.600]  What happens if you forget your PIN code?
[21:51.300 --> 21:52.940]  You have to go to all this rigmarole.
[21:53.000 --> 21:58.600]  They ask you a lot of questions, like your social security number and a lot of test questions you're given, which probably could be hacked as well.
[22:00.060 --> 22:09.240]  But, you know, the bottom line is the customer service representative does not have access to your PIN code and cannot access it really without your authorization.
[22:09.820 --> 22:16.660]  So I think Verizon should have a similar system and be very open as to how this happened and what they're going to do to prevent it from happening again.
[22:16.660 --> 22:22.240]  Well, I mean, the interesting thing about this is that the reason we're talking about this is because Verizon came forward and told people.
[22:22.340 --> 22:24.820]  It's not like it was discovered by some outside entity.
[22:24.820 --> 22:26.900]  So I think that that makes some difference, doesn't it?
[22:27.360 --> 22:32.040]  Well, I don't think it lets them off the hook as far as their culpability and allowing it to happen in the first place.
[22:32.100 --> 22:37.820]  And I think, really, that was probably self-serving that they came forward with, because if they hadn't, it would have made them look even worse.
[22:37.820 --> 22:46.800]  So they probably went into damage controls, who's possible, damage control mode, and did what they had to do to make themselves look as responsible as possible.
[22:46.800 --> 22:51.300]  But they're still not telling anybody how this happened and what they're doing to prevent it from happening again.
[22:51.840 --> 22:52.240]  Yeah.
[22:52.360 --> 23:03.540]  You see, I'm just wondering how much is even possible, because when you call a phone company to talk about your bill or something like that, I know right now with Verizon, I call up and I ask, I give the phone number, and I give information.
[23:03.800 --> 23:05.440]  There's a special code I give.
[23:05.600 --> 23:09.080]  And then they say, do I have permission to access your account?
[23:09.180 --> 23:12.380]  Which I think is an absurd question when I'm calling them to discuss my account.
[23:12.540 --> 23:15.820]  I've never actually said no to them at that point to see how frustrated they might get.
[23:16.180 --> 23:31.300]  But I just wonder how many customers are going to be patient enough to step through an additional set of security measures to make sure that people inside Verizon aren't looking at their information, which I imagine they've been doing for decades now anyway,
[23:31.300 --> 23:34.240]  or as long as the phone company itself has existed.
[23:35.200 --> 23:39.940]  It takes like five seconds with the type of system that ING Direct has implemented.
[23:41.000 --> 23:45.240]  So maybe ING Direct isn't good in privacy and other areas, but they seem to be in this way.
[23:45.340 --> 23:47.680]  So there's no reason Verizon couldn't implement something like that.
[23:47.680 --> 23:47.800]  Well, no.
[23:47.960 --> 23:53.920]  One thing, this gets my goat with banks, is that they trade information with other banks.
[23:54.020 --> 23:58.700]  Now, ask ING if they do this, where they transmit your name, your address, your phone number.
[23:58.700 --> 24:01.500]  But even if your phone number is unlisted, it doesn't matter to them.
[24:01.880 --> 24:07.520]  Banks trade that information with other banks and with credit agencies and with all sorts of other companies.
[24:08.360 --> 24:10.560]  And apparently that's all above board and legal.
[24:11.000 --> 24:12.300]  You can opt out of that.
[24:12.520 --> 24:14.860]  You have to sort of jump through a couple of hoops to opt out of that.
[24:14.860 --> 24:25.760]  But if it's just something like a loan you take out to the bank, the loan agreement you sign does say that they can provide information about your loan to credit reporting agencies, which is legitimate.
[24:26.060 --> 24:37.640]  But if you just have a bank account and you opt out of this information-sharing thing that all banks are required to allow you to opt out of, they're not supposed to give it to any other bank or any other company.
[24:37.640 --> 24:39.180]  They have to keep it within that bank.
[24:39.620 --> 24:39.940]  Voltaire?
[24:40.140 --> 24:53.960]  I don't think it would be that inconvenient for people to give a PIN number because if they've waded through that voice recognition system and they've waded through all the call-forwarding things that they make you do and listening to that annoying music,
[24:54.120 --> 24:57.640]  then you're probably going to have enough patience for giving them your PIN number for five seconds.
[24:57.780 --> 25:01.520]  Maybe, but are people's grandparents going to have that much patience?
[25:01.680 --> 25:02.540]  Are they going to...
[25:02.540 --> 25:06.020]  Well, if they don't even have a touch-tone phone, all kinds of issues.
[25:06.020 --> 25:12.860]  I mean, you know, I agree there should be security, there should be privacy, but I'm just wondering how many people are not going to have the patience for that.
[25:12.960 --> 25:14.720]  And obviously there's a trade-off.
[25:14.840 --> 25:18.300]  If you don't have the patience for it, then you don't have as much privacy.
[25:18.300 --> 25:26.080]  But I'm just wondering if people are going to see the value of this, and if not, how we get them to see the value of it.
[25:27.240 --> 25:33.600]  Obviously having information disclosed is, I guess, reason enough.
[25:33.600 --> 25:36.300]  When we see how easy it is to get information.
[25:36.600 --> 25:43.600]  But, you know, I would have figured that everybody in the phone company is looking at politicians' phone calls and records and things like that anyway.
[25:43.620 --> 25:52.140]  I know years ago, if I knew somebody who worked for the phone company, then that meant I could get access to anybody's billing information.
[25:52.140 --> 25:53.400]  It wasn't hard to do.
[25:54.760 --> 25:57.420]  And I don't imagine that's changed very much over the years.
[25:57.420 --> 26:01.540]  I think if you work inside a phone company or any company, you have access to customer data.
[26:02.560 --> 26:03.460]  No, it's not right.
[26:03.600 --> 26:05.540]  It's not right, but it's not really that surprising.
[26:06.260 --> 26:08.500]  Here's something, though, that is a bit surprising.
[26:08.500 --> 26:18.140]  We're talking about information being lost or put on a website or just found on laptops that have been stolen and things like that.
[26:18.280 --> 26:21.840]  But this is a bit of a different flair to the whole thing.
[26:21.980 --> 26:35.400]  The entire membership list of the British National Party has been posted on the Internet, identifying thousands of people as secret supporters of the far right and exposing many to the risk of dismissal from work, disciplinary action, or vilification.
[26:36.120 --> 26:47.400]  The BNP leader, Nick Griffin, has claimed that he knew the identity of the person who published the list, describing him as a hardliner senior employee who left the party last year.
[26:47.580 --> 26:51.860]  He didn't like the direction the party was going and broke away, taking the list with him.
[26:51.860 --> 27:00.440]  Around 13,500 names and home addresses were posted on a website about a week ago, as well as names and addresses.
[27:00.440 --> 27:05.400]  The list includes the home and mobile phone numbers and personal email addresses of BNP members.
[27:05.600 --> 27:12.860]  It is thought the list may include lapsed members of the party and the names and addresses of people who have expressed an interest in joining the party but have not signed up.
[27:13.180 --> 27:23.620]  Many of the members' occupations are listed, revealing a small number of police, two solicitors, four ministers of religion, at least one doctor, and a number of primary and secondary school teachers.
[27:24.300 --> 27:29.380]  The list has been removed from the internet after complaints by the far-right group.
[27:29.500 --> 27:31.200]  But boy, I think the damage has been done, huh?
[27:33.120 --> 27:34.980]  Yeah, I mean, you could see...
[27:34.980 --> 27:44.520]  It would be like the American Communist Party, for instance, which, you know, has a lot of individuals have a dim view of that party.
[27:44.520 --> 27:58.740]  I don't particularly do, but in any case, if their party, someone from their party absconded with their whole member list and made it public, I'm sure that would cause a lot of problems for people, especially people who work in government.
[27:59.280 --> 28:04.640]  Yeah, as long as such lists exist, I think the danger is always there.
[28:04.800 --> 28:18.820]  I'd like to actually turn to a listener who wrote in to us by the name of Spencer, Spencer, who basically is asking, he says he works with a group in Chicago called SWAP.
[28:19.120 --> 28:21.960]  That stands for Sex Workers Outreach Project.
[28:22.240 --> 28:25.080]  They are dedicated to improving the lives of sex workers in the city.
[28:25.160 --> 28:32.480]  They focus on three primary things, encouraging sex workers to understand their rights, getting them out of abusive situations, and protecting them from the police.
[28:32.900 --> 28:38.300]  Now, all of this is very hard to organize and essentially rest on the shoulders of a few ex-workers who know the game and the people.
[28:38.300 --> 28:45.000]  However, with the possibility of the 2016 Olympics coming to Chicago, the cops are ratcheting up everything.
[28:45.000 --> 28:47.500]  This includes harassment and abuse of sex workers.
[28:47.680 --> 28:58.340]  We need to begin centralizing a database of workers with the real names, aliases, emergency contact information, home address, and all that jazz to better work with the ACLU and People Law Office.
[28:58.480 --> 29:07.500]  I suggested a few things, including 128-bit encrypted MySQL databases, but these ideas have been rejected because the average worker has rudimentary knowledge of computers.
[29:07.500 --> 29:17.900]  Worse yet, they don't believe keeping the data online is safe because the police could hack into the database, or if it is kept on a computer or off the internet, the police get a warrant and just steal the hard drive with all the swapped data.
[29:18.320 --> 29:24.240]  So what can I do as the only technical person in the group to develop a centralized system that is both secure and easy to use?
[29:24.340 --> 29:28.960]  Could hosting the database somewhere like an offshore oil rig solve the problem of Chicago Police Authority?
[29:29.340 --> 29:30.640]  If so, where do I begin?
[29:30.840 --> 29:31.340]  Please help.
[29:31.420 --> 29:34.260]  The faster we can figure this out, the sooner we can improve their lives.
[29:34.260 --> 29:36.620]  It's signed Spencer, and I don't know.
[29:36.720 --> 29:45.200]  You know, after reading a story like we just read, I have to question the wisdom of making a database like that in the first place, where it could be subject to all the risks that have just been mentioned.
[29:47.520 --> 29:48.280]  Do you agree, Bernie?
[29:49.220 --> 29:51.180]  Well, there's risks, but there's also benefits.
[29:51.420 --> 30:02.680]  I mean, for instance, the Obama campaign would not have won the election if it didn't have a list of approximately 10 million email addresses which are used for fundraising and organizing and all that kind of stuff.
[30:02.840 --> 30:07.940]  The swap group has to be politically active to affect its goals.
[30:08.360 --> 30:14.000]  And unless it has a list of its members and how to contact them, it's not going to be able to accomplish that.
[30:14.120 --> 30:15.260]  So it's a problem.
[30:15.280 --> 30:29.320]  But I think to answer this person's question, they need to use the skills of somebody who's very adept in information security and consult with them on how to really implement such a system.
[30:29.460 --> 30:34.900]  And that will at least go a long way to making it as secure as it can be made, even though it may not be 100% secure.
[30:35.020 --> 30:35.640]  Nothing is, really.
[30:36.120 --> 30:42.780]  Well, the difference between Obama's campaign email list and the swap database they're talking about is Obama only had email addresses.
[30:43.100 --> 30:46.800]  This has full names, phone numbers, emergency contact information, who knows what else.
[30:46.940 --> 30:47.140]  Yeah.
[30:47.600 --> 30:50.260]  So if that's lost, there's a very serious security breach.
[30:50.420 --> 30:53.420]  But if email addresses are lost, it's not that big of a deal.
[30:54.200 --> 30:54.900]  Good point.
[30:55.540 --> 30:55.940]  Yeah.
[30:56.240 --> 31:05.480]  It's just, you have to wonder, if we do all the gathering of information for the authorities, makes it very simple for them to simply swoop in and get it all.
[31:06.700 --> 31:09.040]  And their job is just made that much easier.
[31:09.220 --> 31:18.840]  So anytime I see, I mean, we could register the names of all the hackers in the world, you know, to protect everybody in case of government crackdowns and things like that.
[31:18.920 --> 31:23.540]  But, you know, I think most people with common sense will say, no, I'm not giving anybody my information.
[31:23.540 --> 31:39.320]  I think maybe the solution here is simply to educate everybody as to what their rights are, how to contact certain people, and knowing who to contact and what information to give those people, who to trust.
[31:39.320 --> 31:47.000]  But having everything in one location, no matter where it is, oil rig, outer space, whatnot, it's always, there's always going to be a risk.
[31:47.300 --> 31:59.420]  I mean, you could have 128-bit encryption, but if you have some idiot coming around that's, that used to work for your organization and gets annoyed one day and posted on the internet, then you haven't really accomplished anything by having that.
[31:59.420 --> 32:01.640]  Trust only goes as far as the weakest link.
[32:01.840 --> 32:05.300]  I think that it might be a benefit that this is a very small organization.
[32:05.420 --> 32:19.060]  So if this one person wants to be, would have to take responsibility and make sure that he's the only person with access, that I don't, if he gives access to somebody else to the database, then every person you add is going to compromise it a little bit more.
[32:19.060 --> 32:19.680]  Right.
[32:19.860 --> 32:24.660]  And, you know, people go insane over years and maybe somebody who's trustworthy now won't be trustworthy down the road.
[32:24.740 --> 32:25.000]  Who knows?
[32:25.580 --> 32:34.860]  Well, I mean, that's a very interesting point because if you only have one person who has access to the entire database, what if they go, you know, off the wall and release it to the entire internet?
[32:35.060 --> 32:35.240]  Yeah.
[32:35.420 --> 32:36.800]  Or doing it by accident.
[32:36.980 --> 32:37.720]  All sorts of things happen.
[32:37.780 --> 32:42.720]  Whenever you have a database, at some point it's going to get out or someone's going to get access to it that shouldn't get access.
[32:42.860 --> 32:44.640]  So it's, it's, it's a, it's a fine balance.
[32:44.640 --> 32:53.080]  Now you have to ask yourself, okay, is that risk worth, uh, uh, you know, is it, is it a counterbalance to the benefits of having all the information in one place where you can use it?
[32:53.280 --> 33:00.280]  Like for instance, uh, fire departments, knowing where houses are and knowing what's stored in particular locations, that's potential privacy issue.
[33:00.400 --> 33:01.560]  But most people will say, you know what?
[33:01.560 --> 33:07.820]  I want the fire company to know where I live and how to get to my house and where the fire hydrants are and where the dangerous chemicals are and things like that.
[33:08.180 --> 33:12.160]  Uh, so it's, it's a question of balance and I guess everyone needs to be able to make that decision.
[33:12.860 --> 33:14.700]  So interesting, uh, interesting points though.
[33:14.940 --> 33:15.600]  Interesting, uh, letter.
[33:15.680 --> 33:16.620]  And thanks for writing in.
[33:16.720 --> 33:19.500]  Our email address is OTH at 2600.com.
[33:19.660 --> 33:23.380]  We encourage your letters, comments, and all sorts of other things as well.
[33:23.560 --> 33:32.920]  Uh, now for some fun, we, uh, we have, uh, this, uh, bit of information comes out of, uh, Switzerland and it comes from our friend Lynn actually, who, who notified us about this.
[33:33.160 --> 33:42.840]  Now, apparently, uh, Swisscom is, um, is implementing a new feature that might just catch on with the rest of the world and it might be, uh, rather beneficial if it does.
[33:43.080 --> 33:48.300]  Now, calls to the Swisscom network are cheaper than calls to other mobile networks.
[33:48.480 --> 33:55.960]  Now, when you call overseas, when you call European cell phones, maybe you may not realize this, uh, you actually have to pay more than if you call a landline.
[33:56.160 --> 34:01.560]  Now, in this country, we offset that by, uh, by charging people for incoming calls on, uh, cell phone networks.
[34:01.800 --> 34:04.520]  Over there, incoming calls to cell phone networks are free.
[34:04.660 --> 34:06.320]  It doesn't cost anything to the person receiving.
[34:06.320 --> 34:10.100]  However, you do pay a little bit more to call that particular number.
[34:10.350 --> 34:12.910]  Now, how do you know when you're calling a cell phone?
[34:13.100 --> 34:14.040]  It's kind of hard.
[34:14.180 --> 34:16.330]  You might know the, uh, the city code.
[34:16.450 --> 34:17.810]  City codes for cell phones are different.
[34:18.100 --> 34:24.560]  You can't have a cell phone with the same, uh, same city code as, as a landline in, uh, most European countries.
[34:24.790 --> 34:30.680]  So what Swisscom has done, or what they're going to be doing, is, uh, playing an extra little tone.
[34:30.810 --> 34:35.120]  When you call a number, you're going to hear this tone before the ring.
[34:35.120 --> 34:35.720]  I'm going to play it.
[34:35.830 --> 34:37.460]  I actually have a recording of this now.
[34:37.620 --> 34:44.520]  What you'll hear is you'll hear the special tone, and then you'll hear the European ring, which, uh, is different than our ring.
[34:44.620 --> 34:48.240]  But let's, uh, let's take a listen to what it could sound like if you call a cell phone overseas.
[34:54.910 --> 34:55.850]  Okay, that's the ring.
[35:00.530 --> 35:01.430]  So what do you guys think?
[35:01.770 --> 35:08.810]  Uh, will that, uh, will that, uh, boop, boop, boop, will that be enough to tell you that you're about to spend extra money?
[35:08.890 --> 35:09.330]  What do you think, Bernie?
[35:10.250 --> 35:12.930]  Oh, it's, it's better than the alternative and having nothing.
[35:13.110 --> 35:15.150]  I think there really needs to be some way to warn people.
[35:15.990 --> 35:22.550]  They could have, instead of having beeps, just have a sound, a soundbite just saying, uh, cellular call, you're going to pay more.
[35:22.670 --> 35:24.730]  Well, yeah, but that's, that's language specific.
[35:25.070 --> 35:26.930]  You know, I mean, uh, this, this is universal.
[35:27.230 --> 35:29.270]  I mean, that's, that's a universal noise.
[35:29.810 --> 35:33.970]  That means, hey, my wallet's about to start leaking if I don't hang up now.
[35:34.550 --> 35:35.030]  Good point.
[35:35.030 --> 35:46.450]  Do you remember pay phones, uh, overseas used to, uh, play a little tone when you call them and you pick up, it would, uh, it would just play, I don't have an example of it in my head, but, uh, just a series of tones and that would tell operators that,
[35:46.550 --> 35:53.150]  hey, this is a pay phone, don't charge a collect call to this number because the system wasn't advanced enough to actually be able to tell them it was a pay phone.
[35:53.150 --> 35:59.050]  Um, yeah, if you put that on your answer machine, you guaranteed you'd never get a collect call billed to it.
[35:59.510 --> 36:00.830]  Um, all right.
[36:00.910 --> 36:06.570]  And our, our solution here in this country is, uh, by the way, to simply not allow incoming calls to pay phones, but whatever.
[36:07.230 --> 36:07.970]  Um, okay.
[36:08.030 --> 36:09.410]  Here's something interesting involving Google.
[36:09.630 --> 36:11.750]  Try to have at least one interesting Google story a week.
[36:12.330 --> 36:15.890]  Uh, apparently this, um, this is a rather bizarre.
[36:16.090 --> 36:30.110]  Uh, anyone using, uh, Google's street view map feature to scan a downtown Pittsburgh street is bound to do a double take because, uh, if you, if you go down on that particular street, you'll see two 17th century swordsmen doing battle.
[36:30.330 --> 36:32.510]  You'll see an escape from a building using knotted sheets.
[36:32.630 --> 36:38.850]  You'll see a laser zapping a Steelers fan and a Cleveland Browns fan, uh, rendering them lovestruck and about to embrace.
[36:39.550 --> 36:48.590]  Uh, yes, Google really did capture those scenes when it sent a car equipped with cameras down Pittsburgh's Samsonia way in May to take photographs for its online maps.
[36:48.590 --> 36:55.070]  But these images and most of the other scenes caught on Samsonia was staged by artist Ben Kinsley and Robin Hewlett.
[36:55.290 --> 37:00.990]  The two set out to explore the boundaries of the real and virtual worlds after Pittsburgh became included in street view.
[37:01.290 --> 37:11.190]  The Google feature, uh, provides panoramic street level photographs online so users can get a feel for whatever they might be heading, wherever they might be heading, a virtual reconnaissance mission of sorts.
[37:11.490 --> 37:14.570]  Is there metered parking, a place to eat, what's the neighborhood like?
[37:14.570 --> 37:22.270]  And like many first-time street view users, Kinsley and Hewlett, then roommates, typed in their address and found their house.
[37:22.550 --> 37:27.530]  They soon found themselves discussing surveillance and virtual reality and listening to Off the Hook and things like that.
[37:27.870 --> 37:32.330]  Uh, they began considering how they might explore those issues and street view through art.
[37:32.330 --> 37:39.870]  But instead of dwelling on the darker undertones of these issues, said Kinsley, we began to think about ways of playing with the system.
[37:40.430 --> 37:47.270]  The, uh, street view, street with a view project was his master of fine arts thesis project at Carnegie Mellon University.
[37:47.310 --> 37:59.410]  We were interested in interjecting something staged, something fictional into street view and playing with and subtly questioning the notion of reality and something that we perceive as a factual representation of our world.
[37:59.410 --> 38:05.450]  So, basically, what they did was, uh, they, um, they found out.
[38:05.590 --> 38:07.450]  Now, this is the thing I'm, I'm, I'm kind of curious about.
[38:07.810 --> 38:18.730]  Uh, they found out when the cameras were coming through and I think they had to have worked this out with Google somehow in order to actually stage this whole scene and, uh, and, and be captured.
[38:19.090 --> 38:27.210]  Now, if you go to Google, uh, their own employees posed outside the company's headquarters in Mountain View, California as its street view vehicle rolled by.
[38:27.210 --> 38:31.730]  Uh, they joined in the fun in Pittsburgh after Kinsley and Hewlett contacted the company.
[38:32.170 --> 38:36.590]  And, uh, as it says here, Google sent its cameras down to Samsonia on a prearranged day.
[38:36.770 --> 38:43.230]  So, apparently, you can work with Google to, to take nice pictures of wherever it is you live or, or wish to photograph.
[38:43.590 --> 38:44.690]  How do we do this?
[38:44.790 --> 38:50.210]  How do we, uh, how do we get Google to, uh, to have a nice, uh, little, um, a scene in front of our homes?
[38:50.610 --> 38:51.150]  Any ideas?
[38:58.550 --> 38:59.590]  I'd like to do that.
[38:59.690 --> 39:00.930]  Any ideas for, for scenes?
[39:01.410 --> 39:11.110]  You could probably get a gardener to work at a deal ahead of time, like, do a special Google premium price where they, uh, fix up your garden right before Google comes and make your lawn pretty.
[39:11.290 --> 39:13.710]  Well, why not just fix up the garden and leave it that way?
[39:13.890 --> 39:14.910]  Could do that as well.
[39:15.470 --> 39:18.630]  But, uh, that could be a good premium for the next fundraiser.
[39:18.790 --> 39:27.050]  If you, uh, if you pledge a certain amount, we'll have Google make your house look much nicer than it actually is, and, uh, and the rest of the world.
[39:27.170 --> 39:27.670]  Do you like that, Chip?
[39:27.830 --> 39:28.050]  No.
[39:28.210 --> 39:31.010]  The rest of the world will, uh, we'll see you in a different light.
[39:31.970 --> 39:32.370]  Okay.
[39:32.370 --> 39:36.770]  Well, uh, again, if our listeners have any ideas on that, write to us, OTH at 2600.com.
[39:36.930 --> 39:38.570]  Uh, here's another story that we got.
[39:38.770 --> 39:41.150]  How to make the perfect phone call.
[39:41.390 --> 39:43.310]  Yeah, the perfect phone call.
[39:43.390 --> 39:43.830]  I'm not kidding.
[39:44.290 --> 39:54.130]  Should last nine minutes, 36 seconds, and contain a mix of chat about family news, current affairs, personal problems, and the weather.
[39:54.710 --> 40:03.210]  Yeah, experts studied the anatomy of a call and discovered the perfect blend of subject matter and, um, timings needed to create the ideal phone conversation.
[40:03.690 --> 40:15.610]  Three minutes should be spent catching up with news about family and friends, one minute on personal problems, a minute on work slash school, 42 seconds on current affairs, and 24 seconds on the weather.
[40:15.830 --> 40:20.810]  Uh, chat about the opposite sex should last 24 seconds, which is the exact same amount as the weather.
[40:21.010 --> 40:25.030]  Uh, one in five people said they spent most time on the phone to their mother.
[40:25.310 --> 40:34.730]  Uh, the research that was done by the post office of, uh, of Britain, who has way too much time on their hands, uh, revealed that the phrase, I'll get your mother is common.
[40:34.850 --> 40:35.770]  How do they know this?
[40:35.910 --> 40:37.010]  How do they know this?
[40:37.010 --> 40:38.010]  They're listening in.
[40:38.770 --> 40:46.710]  Only 3% of people named their father as the person they spent most time on the phone with because dads hand over the phones to their wives.
[40:46.710 --> 40:52.150]  Uh, Catherine Blythe, author of The Art of Conversation, says, anyone can conduct a good chat.
[40:52.250 --> 40:57.470]  She adds, conversation can slip along with little more than a friendly smile and an open mind.
[40:57.990 --> 41:06.330]  Hugh Stacey, head of telephony at the post office, said, it was surprising that celebrity gossip only occupied 12% of the perfect telephone call.
[41:06.450 --> 41:14.330]  The best thing about this, this article appeared in the Daily Express, there's a picture of a guy on the phone and he looks, he looks so pained and tortured.
[41:14.330 --> 41:26.530]  He has a, he's covering up his, his whole forehead with his hand and he's got this, this, uh, really, um, unpleasant experience, uh, expression on his face and the caption, the caption just simply says, a man using his mobile phone.
[41:28.130 --> 41:30.670]  Oh yeah, that's, that's story of the week as far as I'm concerned.
[41:31.090 --> 41:31.370]  Brilliant.
[41:32.190 --> 41:51.630]  Um, okay, and something else from England, because we love England so much, um, a man who chose the password for his, uh, Lloyd's banking, uh, account, his password was Lloyd's is pants, uh, said he found it had been changed by a member of staff to, no,
[41:51.730 --> 41:52.210]  it's not.
[41:55.310 --> 41:59.470]  First of all, I don't, I don't understand that phrase, Lloyd's is pants.
[41:59.470 --> 42:01.290]  Is that some kind of another British thing?
[42:01.410 --> 42:03.230]  I don't understand pants is something bad.
[42:03.350 --> 42:06.810]  If you call something pants, not Kevin, you look like pants today.
[42:07.270 --> 42:09.050]  Is that a proper thing to say?
[42:09.970 --> 42:19.430]  Well, I guess you should be if you, especially if you're British, uh, Steve Jetley from Shrewsbury said he chose the password after falling out with Lloyd's over insurance that came free with an account.
[42:19.570 --> 42:25.030]  He said he was then banned from changing it back or to another password of Barclays is better.
[42:26.170 --> 42:30.330]  The bank apologized and said, the staff member no longer work there.
[42:30.470 --> 42:31.630]  They've been transferred to Verizon.
[42:33.150 --> 42:41.390]  Mr. Jetley said he first realized his security password had been changed when a call center staff member told him his code word did not match with the one on the computer.
[42:41.550 --> 42:43.430]  I thought it was actually quite a funny response.
[42:43.870 --> 42:49.550]  Uh, he said, but what really incensed me was when I was told I could not change it back to Lloyd's his pants because they said it was not appropriate.
[42:49.550 --> 42:55.090]  I asked if it was pants they didn't like and would Lloyd's his rubbish do, but they didn't think so.
[42:55.150 --> 42:57.730]  So I tried Barclays is better and that didn't go down too well either.
[42:58.230 --> 43:01.130]  Uh, the rules seemed to change and then they told me it had to be one word.
[43:01.230 --> 43:03.170]  So I tried censorship, but they didn't like that.
[43:03.310 --> 43:09.970]  And then they said it had to be no more than six letters long and it just went on from there and there was all kinds of back and forth going on.
[43:10.070 --> 43:18.450]  But, uh, yeah, I guess, you know, in that particular case, they can see your password and, uh, that you, you give them the password and, and they match it and, uh, you have to get it right.
[43:19.410 --> 43:20.750]  Lots of fun over in England.
[43:21.010 --> 43:21.130]  Okay.
[43:21.250 --> 43:23.790]  Our phone number 212-209-2900.
[43:23.990 --> 43:26.890]  If you're over in England, of course, our country code is one.
[43:27.530 --> 43:32.110]  Uh, and of course, uh, our email address continues to be OTH at 2600.com.
[43:32.230 --> 43:36.530]  In fact, here's, um, here's a letter from somebody who has an issue with us.
[43:36.870 --> 43:40.330]  Please don't say that digital television is making its debut in February.
[43:40.490 --> 43:42.690]  Digital television has been around for many years now.
[43:42.870 --> 43:46.330]  All that's happening is the shutoff of analog signals.
[43:46.330 --> 43:52.530]  While this may be unfortunate for people not equipped to receive digital signals, it is not the end of the world.
[43:52.810 --> 43:55.910]  Some full power stations have already shut off their analog signals.
[43:56.170 --> 44:00.650]  Yes, some people were caught off guard, but in the end, they figured out how to get their television.
[44:01.070 --> 44:01.830]  Signed, Tom.
[44:02.450 --> 44:03.850]  Bernie, you have any comments on this?
[44:04.090 --> 44:07.170]  I wrote Tom back, and, uh, I did apologize.
[44:07.430 --> 44:11.090]  It's not the debut of digital television, because if you point out correctly, it's been around for years.
[44:11.090 --> 44:19.210]  But I said, it's really the debut, next February will be the debut of all digital television, where that will be the only way you can get it over the air.
[44:19.930 --> 44:25.510]  Um, um, and it's some low power TV stations, uh, are still going to be able to do analog for a few years.
[44:25.710 --> 44:31.270]  Uh, and some of the translator sites or repeaters that let you use distance stations in your local area.
[44:31.430 --> 44:33.050]  Well, here's, uh, here's what another writer says.
[44:33.170 --> 44:37.630]  He says, up, up here in, uh, Schenectady, he says, uh, channel six is not going away.
[44:37.630 --> 44:42.810]  Up here in Schenectady, uh, channel six is currently broadcasting analog on channel six and digital on channel 39.
[44:43.090 --> 44:46.490]  In February, however, they will be moving the digital signal back to channel six.
[44:46.490 --> 44:51.090]  To the best of my knowledge, the only channels actually going away are those above channel 51.
[44:51.350 --> 45:00.310]  Channels 52 through 69, the 700 megahertz band, will be joining channels 70 through 83, the 800 megahertz band, and providing bandwidth to handheld devices.
[45:00.850 --> 45:04.270]  Uh, in defense of digital TV, by the way, the promise of a good picture has been fulfilled.
[45:04.270 --> 45:16.390]  If no one in your circle, especially the radio geeks amongst you, has experimented with over-the-air digital TV reception, then you are remiss in your duties as hackers, especially given that you can get the converters for cheap, thanks to the $40 coupons,
[45:16.590 --> 45:17.330]  signed, uh, KC.
[45:17.950 --> 45:20.450]  Uh, Bernie, is he correct in saying channel six is not going away?
[45:20.830 --> 45:21.270]  That's good.
[45:21.390 --> 45:30.410]  It may be a misunderstanding in how, how this TV station is representing what channel they're on, their digital channel numbers and analog channel numbers, and that, that might be a confusion there.
[45:30.910 --> 45:34.150]  Uh, best thing to do is actually call the station and ask them, are you still going to be broadcasting?
[45:34.150 --> 45:37.790]  Broadcasting an analog on your old frequency, and that would answer the question.
[45:37.950 --> 45:41.550]  I, I think maybe the confusion here is that they're going to continue to call themselves channel six.
[45:41.750 --> 45:47.910]  For instance, channel two is still going to be channel two here in New York, but they won't be broadcasting on the same frequency, which we know as channel two.
[45:48.050 --> 45:48.950]  It'll be someplace else.
[45:49.290 --> 45:59.390]  But, uh, my understanding, and this is what everyone has, has told me so far, is that the actual frequency of channels, like, like channel six, for instance, will be opened up to something else.
[45:59.390 --> 46:06.850]  We were thinking that it would be good to expand, uh, the FM airwaves down there, since that's right below, uh, 87 on the FM band.
[46:07.030 --> 46:19.430]  And I was thinking also, uh, we have, uh, a low power channel six here in Queens in New York that broadcast a picture, but mostly they broadcast an FM signal that you can receive for a great distance.
[46:19.430 --> 46:24.630]  Because if you have a tuner that goes down a little bit below the FM band, you can receive channel six.
[46:24.830 --> 46:28.650]  And so you're able to hear a radio station that's actually a television station.
[46:28.710 --> 46:31.450]  But what I was wondering was, what's going to happen after February?
[46:31.670 --> 46:34.970]  Is that station going to be off the air because channel six no longer exists?
[46:35.350 --> 46:41.190]  Some low power TV stations are exempt from, uh, the February 19th, uh, conversion to all digital.
[46:41.370 --> 46:49.410]  So, um, I don't know what the exact power level has to be, but there's a lot of low power stations that, uh, that won't have to trans translate to digital in February.
[46:51.150 --> 46:51.490]  Okay.
[46:51.910 --> 46:52.370]  Uh, all right.
[46:52.430 --> 46:54.350]  Our phone number, 212-209-2900.
[46:54.430 --> 46:55.410]  Shall we take some phone calls?
[46:55.770 --> 46:57.930]  We weren't able to do this last week, so let's see how many we can get in.
[46:58.870 --> 46:59.470]  Good evening.
[46:59.830 --> 47:00.950]  You're on off the hook.
[47:01.910 --> 47:03.390]  Hey guys, this is Hypo.
[47:03.570 --> 47:04.290]  Actually, it's interesting.
[47:04.430 --> 47:05.850]  You guys are talking about the digital conversion.
[47:06.050 --> 47:19.250]  I actually had a, something I wanted to kind of post to you guys to see if you guys would be into something like this, uh, to see if, uh, some listeners in their particular areas would be able to, uh, record the transition or would actually turn off the analog signals.
[47:19.830 --> 47:33.070]  I've already started researching my television set and figuring out how to get it, uh, not connected to cable, not connected to satellite and, and back to an analog signal where I can actually hook a VCR up to it and record a TV channel in February going off the air for the last time.
[47:33.190 --> 47:34.350]  I think that would be kind of a cool thing.
[47:34.730 --> 47:42.590]  Yeah, I think if we had, if there are enough of us that are out there that will do it, we can actually see how Channel 5 in New York shuts off, how Channel 4 in New York shuts off, and so on and so forth.
[47:42.590 --> 47:44.090]  It may just be a whole bunch of nothing, too.
[47:44.230 --> 47:47.770]  It may just kind of go away, but I just want to post it out there and see if anybody would be interested in it.
[47:47.910 --> 47:50.910]  Yeah, you know, do you remember when TV stations actually used to sign off at night?
[47:51.330 --> 47:52.650]  Yes, I do, as a matter of fact.
[47:52.650 --> 47:58.550]  I mean, I actually look forward to that sometimes, not because of the crap that they have on, on, on their signal, but it's, it's kind of cool to see the test patterns.
[47:58.590 --> 48:05.170]  Remember the old Indian head, uh, test pattern that, uh, Channel 2 here used to broadcast in black and white up until the 80s and 90s.
[48:05.470 --> 48:06.870]  Or even some of the flags waving.
[48:07.290 --> 48:09.890]  Flags, national anthems, uh, all kinds of things.
[48:10.290 --> 48:11.810]  So, yeah, it's, uh, memories.
[48:11.810 --> 48:13.890]  Now we have infomercials 24 hours a day.
[48:14.390 --> 48:15.090]  Interesting enough.
[48:15.190 --> 48:16.490]  Thanks for your call.
[48:16.810 --> 48:17.390]  Yes, Bernie, go ahead.
[48:17.710 --> 48:22.730]  There probably will be some sort of hoopla, uh, just before they shut it off, shut off the analog transmission.
[48:22.930 --> 48:26.590]  I'm sure the local stations will probably have some sort of ceremony or something.
[48:26.850 --> 48:31.650]  A few years ago, uh, WHYY here in Philadelphia, uh, went through a lot of hoopla.
[48:31.850 --> 48:38.990]  They broadcast on, on television, the, the debut of their digital FM radio station broadcast.
[48:38.990 --> 48:45.990]  And they had a whole bunch of people in a, in a studio, in a, in an amphitheater, all looking at this, uh, HD radio that was sitting on the table.
[48:46.590 --> 48:48.710]  And they said, okay, there's a countdown.
[48:48.950 --> 48:49.610]  Three, two, one.
[48:49.770 --> 48:51.930]  And then there was sound coming out of the radio.
[48:52.070 --> 48:53.290]  It was very anticlimactic.
[48:53.330 --> 48:55.970]  And everybody just sort of, sort of sat around like, so.
[48:56.230 --> 48:57.070]  It was very funny.
[48:57.770 --> 48:59.030]  Oh, I love things like that.
[48:59.090 --> 49:00.190]  That's, uh, brilliant.
[49:00.350 --> 49:01.790]  Okay, well, we have a lot to look forward to.
[49:01.890 --> 49:03.390]  Only, uh, a couple of months away now.
[49:04.030 --> 49:04.650]  Good evening.
[49:04.790 --> 49:05.930]  You're on Off the Hook.
[49:06.890 --> 49:07.870]  Hey, I had a quick question.
[49:07.970 --> 49:14.490]  You know, when you call in with a cell phone, um, luckily I got through, but sometimes it rings and picks up, but there's silence on the other end after a couple of rings.
[49:14.650 --> 49:15.410]  Is there a reason for that?
[49:15.590 --> 49:15.970]  It rings?
[49:16.090 --> 49:16.790]  It picks up?
[49:17.630 --> 49:18.450]  Somebody picks up.
[49:18.530 --> 49:20.050]  At least the phone thinks somebody picks up.
[49:20.310 --> 49:20.490]  Ah.
[49:20.490 --> 49:21.690]  And they hang it up after a minute or two.
[49:21.950 --> 49:22.030]  Interesting.
[49:22.030 --> 49:23.850]  I thought it was on hold, but I'm obviously not.
[49:23.950 --> 49:25.190]  It might be timing out.
[49:25.290 --> 49:30.150]  I mean, it might actually be disconnecting, but your cell phone hasn't picked up the fact that it's disconnected, so you're hearing silence?
[49:30.290 --> 49:31.370]  After two, after two rings?
[49:31.450 --> 49:32.050]  After two rings.
[49:32.150 --> 49:32.630]  That's unusual.
[49:32.950 --> 49:34.210]  Uh, I don't know why we'd be doing that.
[49:34.210 --> 49:37.550]  But, undoubtedly, it's something in the BA iPhone system that is a gremlin somewhere.
[49:37.830 --> 49:38.110]  Possibly, possibly.
[49:38.290 --> 49:38.430]  Yeah.
[49:38.450 --> 49:39.130]  Anyway, I had a quick question.
[49:39.230 --> 49:48.930]  You said that Channel 2, well, Channel 2, not just Channel 2, but the, let's say 2, 4, 5, 7, they're going to go off the arrow 9, 11, 2, and 13, but aren't they still going to go by the same channel numbers?
[49:49.110 --> 49:49.350]  Yes.
[49:49.430 --> 49:50.370]  Yeah, in fact, we discussed that.
[49:50.770 --> 49:53.130]  They're going to continue to announce themselves as Channel 2.
[49:53.390 --> 49:59.870]  Channel 13 will still be Channel 13, even though they're broadcasting on some digital signal, on some other frequency allocation.
[50:00.090 --> 50:07.470]  So you're saying, like, the QAM tuners will read it as two for the experience of people, but the frequencies are obviously different, is what you're saying.
[50:07.550 --> 50:08.550]  That's my understanding.
[50:09.750 --> 50:12.990]  Again, I'm new to this just like everybody else, so I'm not exactly sure what's going to happen.
[50:13.170 --> 50:14.510]  I'm sure there'll be some hiccups in the system.
[50:15.170 --> 50:17.910]  Digital channels are actually three digits.
[50:18.850 --> 50:19.170]  Okay.
[50:19.390 --> 50:19.890]  Oh, really?
[50:19.930 --> 50:23.130]  But they're not going to be identifying themselves by those digital channels, will they?
[50:23.170 --> 50:24.430]  Well, the thing that wrinkles...
[50:25.030 --> 50:39.970]  I'm sorry to interrupt, but the thing that throws a wrinkle into all this is if you do have cable, you can feed the raw cable into a QAM tuner, and if you scan, you'll find some of the high-def channels in some weird areas.
[50:40.150 --> 50:45.610]  They'll be, like, totally unrelated to anything that the channel is actually on, or maybe not.
[50:45.790 --> 50:57.510]  But, like, for example, on Cablevision, all the high-def channels are around the 100s with nothing to do, and obviously their cable boxes remap them to the appropriate channel guide numbers.
[50:57.690 --> 51:03.190]  But the actual frequency that the QAM, you know, tunes into is just almost arbitrary.
[51:03.650 --> 51:04.690]  Yeah, it does seem that way.
[51:04.910 --> 51:05.370]  It does seem that way.
[51:05.410 --> 51:05.730]  Thank you very much.
[51:05.870 --> 51:06.410]  Thanks for your call.
[51:06.690 --> 51:10.130]  Now, Bernie, something you said recently in the last week, in fact.
[51:10.270 --> 51:19.110]  Well, first of all, those people who have digital cable and those people who have satellite, they don't have to worry because this is all going to be taken care of automatically in the systems that they have.
[51:19.110 --> 51:27.410]  The only people that will be affected by this are people that receive signals through the air, that whole-fashioned way, through antennas and things like that.
[51:27.510 --> 51:33.950]  But you mentioned that SDTV, the standard definition, is worse than NTSC.
[51:34.090 --> 51:42.150]  Now, if I understand this correctly, SDTV is what those of us who don't have high-definition televisions will be receiving after February, or is that something else?
[51:43.390 --> 51:45.370]  You're exactly right there, Emmanuel.
[51:45.370 --> 51:50.330]  Well, most of the TVs being sold, these digital TVs, are not high-definition.
[51:50.510 --> 51:52.310]  They're not what's called HDTV.
[51:52.650 --> 51:59.230]  They're really standard definition TV, SDTV, which is roughly one-fifth the resolution of a high-definition channel.
[51:59.430 --> 52:18.430]  And I've spoken with television broadcast engineers who know what they're talking about and say that, because they've been doing this for many years, they say an SDTV signal, the video quality, is actually poorer than the NTSC, which is the analog signal format that we've been receiving television on for many,
[52:18.510 --> 52:18.830]  many years.
[52:18.910 --> 52:24.770]  So if you have a good quality analog TV set, you're currently receiving a good signal over the air.
[52:25.610 --> 52:31.230]  It's going to be better quality than the digital signal in standard definition that you're going to see next February.
[52:31.230 --> 52:44.530]  Well, if I have a digital cable system and I have a satellite, and right now I'm just receiving normal channels on a regular television set, now after the transition where it's all automatically changed for me, am I going to notice a degradation in signal?
[52:45.190 --> 52:46.230]  You may very well.
[52:46.230 --> 52:51.910]  If you live out in an outlying area, and I think you do, there's a good chance your signal will...
[52:51.910 --> 52:55.490]  Well, I mean, it should make a difference if I have cable or satellite, no matter where I live.
[52:55.570 --> 53:00.290]  No, if you're on cable or satellite, it won't make any difference whatsoever.
[53:00.290 --> 53:12.210]  But if you're receiving it over the air, distant areas where you used to be able to take up an analog signal, maybe with a little bit of weak signal, like a little bit of snowiness or shadow, your signal could completely go away with digital.
[53:12.410 --> 53:12.750]  Well, yeah.
[53:12.970 --> 53:14.310]  It's on or off with digital.
[53:14.450 --> 53:24.830]  But what I was trying to understand is whether you were saying that the actual picture quality that you're receiving on SDTV as opposed to a regular analog signal quality was somehow different.
[53:25.290 --> 53:26.090]  All the...
[53:26.090 --> 53:28.450]  I talk to people at the cable companies to head ends.
[53:28.450 --> 53:34.850]  They say they get their feeds directly from the TV stations, like over like a T1 or Fiber or whatever.
[53:35.050 --> 53:37.010]  So they're not even picking up over the air anymore.
[53:37.170 --> 53:43.170]  The TV stations transmit by wire their signals to the head ends of the cable company.
[53:43.350 --> 53:45.170]  So I don't think there's going to be any change.
[53:45.870 --> 53:46.030]  Okay.
[53:46.110 --> 53:46.370]  Voltaire?
[53:46.530 --> 53:51.810]  Like you said, for the over-the-air stations, I know that they also broadcast like HD versions.
[53:51.810 --> 53:57.510]  And you can buy a HD antenna instead of buying a converter box and you'll get a better signal quality.
[53:57.710 --> 54:02.130]  And actually, most cable companies use so much compression on their HD channels.
[54:02.310 --> 54:06.130]  Even though they say it's HD, it's actually lower quality than the stuff you get over the air.
[54:06.430 --> 54:09.730]  But I mean, it's only going to be those two stations and it's only in larger cities.
[54:09.910 --> 54:14.530]  But if you're in one of those cities and you just want to see the major networks, you can get an HD antenna.
[54:14.530 --> 54:20.790]  Honestly, I don't know what the whole thing is with HDTV, why everybody feels the need that it's got to be high definition for everything.
[54:20.790 --> 54:21.830]  It's a television set.
[54:21.910 --> 54:25.770]  For God's sake, you want high definition, go to a movie or go live life or something like that.
[54:26.110 --> 54:31.650]  But as far as television, you know, I mean, I'm a TV bug in some ways.
[54:31.670 --> 54:35.870]  I like to explore and find interesting programs and distant channels and things like that.
[54:36.470 --> 54:38.310]  But, you know, I don't want to live in the thing.
[54:38.310 --> 54:42.570]  You know, the picture quality, it's a television, it should only go so far.
[54:42.830 --> 54:46.390]  And all the chaos is going to be caused by this, I really wonder.
[54:46.710 --> 54:47.910]  All right, let's take another phone call.
[54:48.670 --> 54:50.050]  And good evening, you're on off the hook.
[54:51.030 --> 54:51.710]  Speak up.
[54:52.750 --> 54:53.190]  Quickly.
[54:54.170 --> 55:00.330]  Oh, yes, I'd like to talk about the cable, the digital thing, but I have a texting problem.
[55:00.810 --> 55:04.910]  My cell phone has free texting where it's unlimited.
[55:05.330 --> 55:05.790]  Is this Rebel?
[55:06.150 --> 55:06.870]  Are you Rebel?
[55:08.610 --> 55:09.490]  No, I'm...
[55:09.490 --> 55:10.090]  Are you sure?
[55:10.630 --> 55:11.010]  Yes.
[55:11.250 --> 55:11.490]  All right.
[55:12.710 --> 55:14.650]  It says free texting.
[55:14.950 --> 55:15.870]  You sound like Rebel.
[55:15.990 --> 55:17.610]  You sound a little like somebody we know.
[55:17.830 --> 55:18.630]  Are you a Rebel?
[55:18.810 --> 55:19.910]  Well, maybe he is.
[55:20.150 --> 55:20.990]  It sounds like...
[55:20.990 --> 55:22.750]  No, you sound like Rebel with your teeth clenched.
[55:23.210 --> 55:23.830]  Are you sure?
[55:24.210 --> 55:25.970]  No, I'm not clenching my teeth.
[55:25.970 --> 55:27.770]  I don't know why you think I am.
[55:27.910 --> 55:28.730]  But anyway...
[55:28.730 --> 55:28.870]  All right.
[55:28.990 --> 55:29.970]  My mistake.
[55:30.510 --> 55:30.690]  Yes.
[55:31.610 --> 55:41.450]  I see these ads saying, if you want to get this information, text 123 to Monroe, or whatever, I got a $75 bill just for texting.
[55:41.830 --> 55:45.270]  It's funny that you mentioned Monroe as one of our other listeners, but never mind that.
[55:46.070 --> 55:46.990]  Well, different things...
[55:46.990 --> 55:47.730]  You guys know each other?
[55:47.810 --> 55:48.510]  Is that possible?
[55:49.130 --> 55:49.590]  No, no, no.
[55:49.650 --> 55:49.870]  All right.
[55:50.030 --> 55:52.690]  When you listen to a radio station, they'll say text...
[55:52.690 --> 55:55.390]  Yeah, texting, you get an extra charge for doing that.
[55:55.510 --> 55:56.450]  You got to be careful when you text.
[55:56.730 --> 55:58.110]  Well, you got $5 for texting.
[55:58.110 --> 55:58.850]  It could be $100.
[55:59.290 --> 56:00.970]  It could be, you know, your life savings.
[56:01.070 --> 56:01.670]  You got to be careful.
[56:02.010 --> 56:06.830]  I mean, don't just text things willy-nilly, especially those short codes, because extra charges may apply.
[56:07.250 --> 56:09.530]  You got to be a rebel sometimes and not listen to them.
[56:09.530 --> 56:10.290]  That's right.
[56:10.590 --> 56:11.570]  Folks, we're out of time.
[56:11.950 --> 56:13.590]  That was a good last call to end on.
[56:13.970 --> 56:16.470]  Again, our email address, OTH at 2600.com.
[56:16.650 --> 56:17.670]  Have a happy Thanksgiving, everybody.
[56:17.890 --> 56:23.370]  Listen to our outgoing song about telephones, and we'll see you back here on Off the Hook next week.
[56:24.250 --> 56:25.090]  Have a good night.
[56:57.660 --> 57:05.620]  I want to tell you I'm so brokenhearted But just about the time I get close to you
[57:09.010 --> 57:23.010]  I hear the telephone Ringing in my ear Now that we're alone The telephone ring The telephone ring
[57:37.190 --> 57:45.550]  Cause all I get to ride is my bike When I whisper in your ear I just gotta hold you near to me
[57:48.710 --> 57:51.830]  Now we're getting bored.
[57:52.710 --> 57:56.270]  Just the right thing to turn my love cold.
[57:57.330 --> 57:58.670]  Telephone ring.
[57:59.450 --> 58:00.690]  Telephone ring.
[58:01.350 --> 58:02.670]  Telephone ring.
[58:05.350 --> 58:06.610]  Telephone ring.
[58:09.350 --> 58:10.630]  Telephone ring.
[58:11.550 --> 58:12.470]  I
[58:21.820 --> 58:24.460]  can't imagine what it feels like.
[58:24.900 --> 58:28.500]  Cause all I get to ride is my bike.
[58:28.760 --> 58:33.560]  When I whisper here, I just gotta hold you near tonight.
[58:40.760 --> 58:44.240]  Just the right thing to turn my love cold.
[58:45.420 --> 58:46.560]  Telephone ring.
[58:49.420 --> 58:50.520]  Telephone ring.
[59:01.710 --> 59:03.230]  Well, here it comes.
[59:03.590 --> 59:04.650]  Telephone ring.
[59:05.490 --> 59:06.630]  Telephone ring.
[59:07.470 --> 59:08.550]  Telephone ring.
[59:11.350 --> 59:12.630]  Telephone ring.
[59:13.350 --> 59:14.610]  Telephone ring.
[59:15.310 --> 59:16.630]  Telephone ring.
[59:17.950 --> 59:19.870]  It drives me crazy.
[59:22.270 --> 59:24.650]  With the telephone ring.
[59:26.150 --> 59:27.710]  What can I, what can I do?
[59:30.310 --> 59:32.670]  With the telephone ring.
[59:33.930 --> 59:35.750]  Oh, no, no, no.
[59:39.470 --> 59:40.810]  Telephone ring.
[59:41.730 --> 59:42.670]  Ha, ha.
[59:43.150 --> 59:47.250]  Man, I love those off-the-hook songs.