[00:01.050 --> 00:05.710]  Joy to the world, the Lord is come.
[00:06.070 --> 00:06.870]  Let earth be you.
[00:06.870 --> 00:09.110]  Little girl, little girl, why are you so sad?
[00:09.270 --> 00:10.470]  It's almost time for Christmas.
[00:10.870 --> 00:11.230]  What?
[00:11.690 --> 00:14.910]  My family doesn't celebrate Christmas.
[00:15.510 --> 00:16.250]  Oh, jewish?
[00:16.710 --> 00:17.330]  Uh-uh.
[00:18.070 --> 00:18.530]  Muslim?
[00:18.870 --> 00:19.690]  Uh-uh.
[00:20.130 --> 00:20.570]  Buddhist?
[00:20.970 --> 00:21.310]  Nope.
[00:21.590 --> 00:27.370]  My family doesn't practice any religion, and we don't believe in things that are supernatural.
[00:27.370 --> 00:29.150]  But haven't they heard?
[00:29.370 --> 00:33.370]  There are many ways to enjoy and celebrate Christmas that are completely naturalistic.
[00:34.250 --> 00:34.750]  Really?
[00:35.070 --> 00:35.530]  Really!
[00:35.730 --> 00:43.570]  And this Christmas, they can learn all about having a perfectly wonderful naturalistic Christmas on Equal Time for Free Thoughts naturalistic Christmas special.
[00:44.330 --> 00:46.110]  Naturalistic Christmas special?
[00:46.410 --> 00:47.030]  That's right!
[00:47.190 --> 00:47.550]  One!
[00:47.690 --> 00:50.010]  From 3 to 5 on Christmas Day!
[00:50.390 --> 00:52.230]  Three to 5 Christmas Day!
[00:52.470 --> 00:55.610]  Right here on 99.5 WBAI.
[00:57.370 --> 01:00.390]  Yes, and this is Radio Station WBAI New York.
[01:00.530 --> 01:01.750]  It's 7 o'clock.
[01:02.110 --> 01:03.570]  Time for Off the Hook.
[01:08.870 --> 01:30.670]  The telephone keeps ringing So I ripped it off the wall I cut myself while shaving Now I can't make a cough We couldn't get much worse But if they could, they would Bum-diddly-bom For the best, it's paid for worst I hope that's understood Bum-diddly-bom
[02:08.040 --> 02:09.060]  And good evening to everybody.
[02:09.140 --> 02:10.640]  The program is Off the Hook.
[02:11.440 --> 02:14.480]  Emmanuel Goldstein here with you on this Wednesday evening.
[02:15.120 --> 02:17.840]  Saying a very good evening to Rob T.
[02:18.040 --> 02:18.420]  Firefly.
[02:18.700 --> 02:19.220]  Good evening.
[02:19.680 --> 02:20.100]  Voltaire.
[02:20.360 --> 02:20.660]  Greetings.
[02:21.320 --> 02:21.600]  Jim.
[02:21.920 --> 02:22.120]  Hello.
[02:23.700 --> 02:24.400]  Red Hack.
[02:24.600 --> 02:24.980]  Hey there.
[02:25.280 --> 02:25.700]  Mike.
[02:26.100 --> 02:26.340]  Hi.
[02:26.920 --> 02:27.440]  Bernie S.
[02:27.500 --> 02:28.000]  down in Philadelphia.
[02:29.240 --> 02:30.080]  Oh, I'm sorry.
[02:30.260 --> 02:30.740]  I didn't bring you up.
[02:30.780 --> 02:31.320]  Say that again, Bernie.
[02:31.820 --> 02:32.820]  Greetings from Philadelphia.
[02:33.220 --> 02:35.260]  And our special guest tonight, Bicycle Mark.
[02:35.260 --> 02:35.920]  Hello.
[02:36.400 --> 02:37.380]  You're in from...
[02:37.380 --> 02:38.440]  Where are you in from?
[02:38.640 --> 02:39.080]  Amsterdam.
[02:39.880 --> 02:40.540]  Not Jersey.
[02:41.400 --> 02:42.600]  Well, temporarily Jersey.
[02:42.600 --> 02:42.920]  Got you.
[02:43.280 --> 02:43.500]  Okay.
[02:43.740 --> 02:45.540]  So, Amsterdam, Jersey, BAI.
[02:45.700 --> 02:46.960]  It's a good trip there.
[02:47.200 --> 02:47.400]  Yeah.
[02:47.640 --> 02:49.980]  And you're going to be at the CCC as well?
[02:50.260 --> 02:50.700]  Absolutely.
[02:51.120 --> 02:51.340]  Okay.
[02:51.820 --> 02:53.880]  Well, I look forward to seeing you over in Berlin.
[02:54.160 --> 02:58.300]  I guess it's not too late for people to head over there or to get tickets to head over there.
[02:58.520 --> 02:59.540]  Airfares are going down.
[03:00.100 --> 03:00.460]  Yeah.
[03:00.980 --> 03:01.700]  There's still time.
[03:01.780 --> 03:04.940]  And I think you actually get cheaper tickets if you order now.
[03:05.220 --> 03:05.720]  Well, it depends.
[03:05.840 --> 03:06.440]  Depends how you do it.
[03:06.520 --> 03:07.660]  But it is possible.
[03:07.820 --> 03:08.800]  It's possible you get all kinds of things.
[03:08.920 --> 03:11.100]  We worked out an amazing deal on the train.
[03:11.220 --> 03:12.940]  You want to tell the folks how that worked out?
[03:13.360 --> 03:16.680]  Thanks to Hanukkah in Amsterdam, she was able to actually do the...
[03:16.680 --> 03:18.960]  I think she called on the phone or something like that.
[03:18.960 --> 03:21.760]  But I tried to book a train ticket online.
[03:21.760 --> 03:23.580]  It was, you know, it was a little too expensive.
[03:23.580 --> 03:25.800]  But you got a super discounted fare.
[03:26.400 --> 03:30.000]  And then somehow I was able to latch on to your super discounted fare.
[03:30.120 --> 03:31.100]  How did we do this exactly?
[03:31.420 --> 03:33.900]  Well, there's a strange thing with the Dutch train system.
[03:34.060 --> 03:41.180]  And I don't think all countries are like this or all train systems where they actually give you a cheaper fare if you go to a person compared to using the internet.
[03:41.460 --> 03:42.980]  I think if you call the person on the phone too.
[03:43.260 --> 03:43.500]  Yeah.
[03:43.500 --> 03:45.660]  As long as you get a human, you get a cheaper fare.
[03:45.680 --> 03:47.740]  We don't have calling people on phone anymore.
[03:47.740 --> 03:49.200]  That's something from the past.
[03:49.380 --> 03:50.080]  You can't call...
[03:50.080 --> 03:53.700]  Imagine calling, you know, the train and talking to a human.
[03:53.880 --> 03:55.540]  You can call Amtrak, a human.
[03:55.880 --> 03:59.780]  Talk to a human and get a special rate because you talk to the human.
[04:00.020 --> 04:01.940]  You'll get a special level of grumpiness.
[04:02.020 --> 04:06.100]  You'll get a special addition to your fare if you talk to the human, I'll bet.
[04:06.540 --> 04:07.840]  Yeah, a surcharge of sorts.
[04:08.000 --> 04:08.300]  Roltaire.
[04:08.460 --> 04:13.260]  At least I know that with JetBlue, if you want to talk to a human, you're going to get charged extra money.
[04:13.380 --> 04:14.800]  Yeah, you get charged extra money if you talk to a human.
[04:14.920 --> 04:16.320]  That's how humans are premiums here.
[04:16.320 --> 04:17.760]  We charge extra for them.
[04:17.920 --> 04:20.800]  Yeah, you don't pay extra to talk to a person for the Dutch Railway.
[04:20.980 --> 04:23.660]  And actually, you can get these things called super discounts.
[04:23.820 --> 04:24.400]  Super discount.
[04:24.580 --> 04:25.420]  More than a discount.
[04:25.700 --> 04:26.780]  It's more than half off.
[04:26.860 --> 04:28.140]  It was like a third the price.
[04:28.320 --> 04:30.780]  Yeah, I think we're paying like 39 euros to go to Berlin one way.
[04:31.000 --> 04:31.540]  That's not bad.
[04:31.620 --> 04:38.260]  And you especially have the connections or the magic because you managed to get the super discount a few days after me.
[04:38.280 --> 04:39.540]  I thought that was a limited time thing.
[04:39.720 --> 04:41.560]  So we're on the same train car going to Berlin.
[04:41.760 --> 04:42.420]  And that's the other thing.
[04:42.520 --> 04:43.200]  Try this on Amtrak.
[04:43.200 --> 04:48.680]  We were able to book it into the same train car so that we would at least be within shouting distance of each other.
[04:49.040 --> 04:50.840]  And I thought that was pretty cool.
[04:50.980 --> 04:55.540]  You knew what your car was, what your seat was, and I wanted it to be somewhere nearby.
[04:56.440 --> 04:58.160]  So that was kind of cool.
[04:58.700 --> 05:00.740]  So yeah, Amsterdam to Berlin.
[05:01.380 --> 05:06.820]  The conference takes place from December 27th through the 30th, four days.
[05:08.220 --> 05:10.820]  And more details can be found at ccc.de.
[05:10.980 --> 05:12.480]  Happens every year, the Chaos Congress.
[05:13.200 --> 05:14.480]  A lot of good talks.
[05:14.580 --> 05:15.160]  Kind of like Hope.
[05:15.520 --> 05:16.340]  But it's...
[05:16.340 --> 05:18.300]  There is some German, but it's mostly English.
[05:18.600 --> 05:19.220]  Mostly English.
[05:19.320 --> 05:20.780]  Yeah, it takes place right smack in the middle of Berlin.
[05:21.400 --> 05:26.260]  So a lot of fun if you're looking for something to do in between that period of time, between Christmas and New Year's.
[05:26.360 --> 05:27.320]  That's the perfect solution.
[05:27.780 --> 05:28.180]  Yeah.
[05:29.240 --> 05:34.420]  And okay, there are some other things going on in Philadelphia, though, from what I'm hearing, Bernie.
[05:35.560 --> 05:37.140]  First of all, there's this whole...
[05:37.140 --> 05:40.220]  Speaking of trains, apparently Obama's doing something with a train.
[05:40.240 --> 05:40.900]  What's that all about?
[05:41.780 --> 05:47.840]  Well, seeing as there's probably going to be about 5 million people at the inaugural on January 20th.
[05:48.000 --> 05:50.100]  Isn't that more than the population of Washington, D.C.?
[05:50.100 --> 05:50.960]  Oh, clearly.
[05:51.140 --> 05:52.560]  It's like way more than you can speak.
[05:53.040 --> 05:53.360]  Okay.
[05:53.700 --> 05:59.540]  I mean, somebody actually ran the math and figured out that there'd be like an 8-inch square.
[05:59.740 --> 06:03.300]  If you actually book 5 million people there, and that's how many people are supposedly going to try to get there.
[06:03.440 --> 06:09.700]  If you actually measured it out in space, it would only allow like an 8-inch square for every person to stand in.
[06:09.860 --> 06:10.660]  So I don't know how...
[06:10.660 --> 06:12.260]  Do they have enough bathrooms for all these people?
[06:12.300 --> 06:12.960]  That's what I want to know.
[06:12.960 --> 06:14.080]  Oh, absolutely not.
[06:14.280 --> 06:15.080]  This is going to be...
[06:15.080 --> 06:16.000]  It's going to get ugly.
[06:16.380 --> 06:22.740]  So if people don't want to actually experience his ugliness, Obama is sort of planning for an escape valve.
[06:23.120 --> 06:31.420]  And three days before the inaugural, he's going to have sort of a pre-inaugural celebration in Philadelphia, where this nation was founded.
[06:31.620 --> 06:38.660]  So in Philadelphia on January 17th, Obama is going to be here and just have a big hoedown here, apparently.
[06:38.660 --> 06:44.660]  And then he's going to take a special Amtrak train with Joe Biden, the Amtrak dude.
[06:44.860 --> 06:46.080]  Actually, what's going to happen...
[06:46.080 --> 06:47.960]  First of all, hoedown is your word, right?
[06:48.080 --> 06:50.120]  I mean, that's not how he's describing this, I sure hope.
[06:50.200 --> 06:52.240]  I think he's probably in the country western, isn't he?
[06:52.440 --> 06:53.400]  Oh, Lord help us.
[06:53.960 --> 06:55.700]  But he's not actually leaving with Biden.
[06:55.820 --> 07:00.140]  They're going to pick Joe Biden up in Delaware on the way from Philadelphia to D.C.
[07:00.140 --> 07:01.800]  I think that's really going to be kind of interesting.
[07:02.380 --> 07:02.680]  That's right.
[07:02.860 --> 07:06.460]  I've been in the Wilmington Amtrak station many times, and Joe will be waiting there.
[07:06.640 --> 07:07.520]  Thank you for correcting me.
[07:07.520 --> 07:12.380]  And he's going to step on the train at that point, and then it's going to continue on to Baltimore.
[07:12.600 --> 07:16.960]  And in Baltimore, I think the next day on the 18th, they're going to be doing another hoedown.
[07:17.700 --> 07:18.420]  Another hoedown?
[07:18.660 --> 07:20.840]  Another in Baltimore, and then on to D.C.
[07:20.840 --> 07:21.500]  for the big one.
[07:21.660 --> 07:26.240]  Well, my question, though, is this going to be a regular Amtrak train or their own private thing?
[07:26.900 --> 07:28.180]  Well, I believe...
[07:28.180 --> 07:30.220]  Because imagine getting a ticket on that Amtrak train.
[07:30.300 --> 07:32.980]  That would be pretty cool if you have to walk through his car to get to the dining car or something.
[07:33.200 --> 07:35.680]  Something tells me this is going to be a special train.
[07:37.040 --> 07:42.900]  Are they going to be standing at the back of the train, waving as it moves slowly by and people line the sides of the railway?
[07:43.180 --> 07:44.340]  Do they not do that anymore?
[07:44.400 --> 07:45.080]  They used to do that.
[07:45.120 --> 07:47.380]  Can I ride on top of the train, like India style?
[07:47.420 --> 07:48.320]  I'd like to do that.
[07:48.640 --> 07:51.780]  But imagine the pathway all the way down from Philadelphia to D.C.
[07:51.820 --> 07:58.440]  I imagine it will be lined with people, you know, waving and maybe making obscene gestures or whatever it is they feel like doing.
[07:58.440 --> 08:05.480]  But what kind of security are they going to have to have for the train line going down there in this day of paranoia?
[08:06.080 --> 08:13.660]  Every train trestle, overpass, tunnel is going to have to be guarded with armed Secret Service agents, no question.
[08:13.760 --> 08:14.980]  Well, why just those?
[08:15.120 --> 08:17.700]  Why not the whole route, you know, ground level as well?
[08:17.700 --> 08:28.340]  Well, it's, well, you know, the motorcade does go pretty long distances sometimes, but it's generally not well publicized when and where, but there's going to be no secret about this.
[08:28.420 --> 08:33.580]  This train is definitely going to be going down these tracks on a certain day.
[08:33.660 --> 08:37.340]  But at 115 miles an hour, which makes it hard to really...
[08:37.340 --> 08:40.660]  Wait, wait, you're claiming that Amtrak's going to go 115 miles an hour?
[08:40.740 --> 08:41.740]  They've done it occasionally.
[08:42.000 --> 08:42.960]  They might be able to do that this time too.
[08:42.960 --> 08:44.240]  I don't believe it for a second.
[08:45.120 --> 08:48.580]  You know why they only have one event per day, because that's all you can do with Amtrak.
[08:48.760 --> 08:49.260]  That's probably true.
[08:49.360 --> 08:51.480]  Maybe you should call that human of yours in Amtrak and tell them that.
[08:51.600 --> 08:53.220]  I was going to, but you declined.
[08:54.340 --> 08:55.900]  But, yeah, so that's going to be interesting.
[08:56.200 --> 08:56.460]  I don't know.
[08:56.520 --> 08:58.840]  Are we planning on doing something down there, Bernie, for this?
[08:59.000 --> 09:04.800]  I've invited a bunch of people, including yourself, to come to Philly for the 17th pre-inaugural hoedown.
[09:05.060 --> 09:18.560]  And after that, I know some pretty good vantage points between here and Wilmington, because I've taken that train many times, where we'll be able to get a good close-up view of the train going by, and maybe wave at Obama as he peers at us through the window.
[09:18.720 --> 09:21.620]  He won't see anything if he's going 150 miles an hour, that's for sure.
[09:21.660 --> 09:25.160]  But it'll be spectacular to see the event, I guess.
[09:26.560 --> 09:38.800]  The real question, of course, is if Obama's much-vaunted infrastructure money, billions of dollars for infrastructure, if any of that's going to go to mass transit or just to highways, because so far it's just highways.
[09:39.040 --> 09:41.460]  Yeah, but that's up to the local governments to say, we need it for this.
[09:41.700 --> 09:56.860]  It's, you know, if New York State says, we need this money to go towards rebuilding the infrastructure, and, you know, maybe not charging people so much money to take trains and subways, which they want to do, according to the MTA today, then that money might go there.
[09:57.000 --> 10:04.820]  You hear today, the MTA press conference, somebody was about to throw a shoe, because they were announcing all these rate increases, and somebody got very angry.
[10:04.820 --> 10:08.420]  So apparently, this is a new thing to do, is to throw a shoe when you're not pleased with something.
[10:08.660 --> 10:09.400]  I like it.
[10:09.460 --> 10:10.340]  I can get into this.
[10:10.440 --> 10:13.320]  I just have to get more shoes, because you don't get them back.
[10:13.500 --> 10:13.740]  Yes?
[10:14.420 --> 10:17.680]  I'm sure this is going to be part of the American vernacular, just like going postal.
[10:18.000 --> 10:20.820]  You're going to say, yeah, he threw a shoe over that.
[10:20.980 --> 10:22.700]  You know, it's obviously got to be...
[10:22.700 --> 10:25.320]  It's just too good to not be part of the vernacular.
[10:25.500 --> 10:27.900]  I should say, though, that Obama has said during his...
[10:28.860 --> 10:38.420]  Both during the primary campaign and after he got the nomination, both times he did say he felt that the U.S.
[10:38.440 --> 10:40.220]  should put more focus on passenger rail.
[10:40.560 --> 10:43.500]  So we'll see if he puts his money where his mouth is on that.
[10:43.540 --> 10:44.300]  I certainly hope so.
[10:44.380 --> 10:48.200]  But I would hope also that Amtrak becomes more efficient, because if you divide...
[10:48.200 --> 10:51.120]  Amtrak is woefully inefficient, if you ever watch how they do things.
[10:51.220 --> 10:53.620]  It's nowhere near as efficient as the European train systems.
[10:53.620 --> 10:54.180]  But we'll see.
[10:54.460 --> 10:59.560]  Well, yeah, again, he gave a long speech about how he wanted to connect the Midwestern cities by high-speed rail.
[11:00.140 --> 11:03.380]  But again, I think it's up to the states there to say, yes, this is going to be a priority.
[11:03.620 --> 11:06.860]  California voted it in for high-speed rail.
[11:07.000 --> 11:07.700]  They're going to get that.
[11:07.880 --> 11:09.620]  And hopefully money will go towards that as well.
[11:09.760 --> 11:17.220]  You know, I think even with funding, though, back to the MTA, I don't think that we're going to be able to get out of more rate hikes, because we're a captive audience, right?
[11:17.300 --> 11:21.220]  The one thing is in New York City, a lot of people don't have cars.
[11:21.220 --> 11:23.600]  You can't just drive there if the train's too expensive.
[11:23.820 --> 11:24.260]  We're stuck.
[11:24.460 --> 11:26.760]  We've got the subway and the bus, and there we go.
[11:27.260 --> 11:29.860]  We don't have enough, though, because I was speaking to a friend of mine, actually.
[11:29.980 --> 11:34.580]  He lives in Queens, and asking if he wanted to meet me in Brooklyn at some point.
[11:34.760 --> 11:39.760]  Do you know it takes him two hours by train to get to Brooklyn from Queens, because he has to take a train all the way through Manhattan, all the way around.
[11:39.780 --> 11:41.500]  There's no bus service that goes directly there.
[11:42.100 --> 11:45.340]  And if he had a car, he could do it in about 10 minutes, which is insane.
[11:45.420 --> 11:46.140]  It shouldn't be that way.
[11:46.140 --> 11:54.180]  Today, I filled up my smart car, which was bone dry, cost me $13, and that's two trips back and forth from Long Island, you know, pretty far.
[11:54.620 --> 11:56.120]  It shouldn't be that cheap.
[11:56.280 --> 11:58.500]  It shouldn't be that cheap, and the train fare shouldn't be that expensive.
[11:58.500 --> 12:02.800]  So our priorities are all woefully inadequate, and we have to do something about them.
[12:02.840 --> 12:04.180]  But I don't know how we're getting off onto this.
[12:04.200 --> 12:06.880]  We were talking about momentous occasions.
[12:07.060 --> 12:13.420]  Actually, I was also invited to a swearing-in ceremony of some senator I've never heard of, or some representative I've never heard of.
[12:13.420 --> 12:17.420]  I got onto this mailing list somehow, and it's not even under my real name.
[12:17.480 --> 12:19.780]  I just got onto this mailing list, and this guy keeps sending me mail.
[12:19.880 --> 12:21.900]  I forget his name, but he's a Pennsylvania representative.
[12:22.360 --> 12:33.520]  And he keeps thanking me for supporting him and for bringing him back into office and all these things, and now he's sent me an invite saying, you're welcome to watch me be sworn in on this particular day in January, and I can bring as many people as I want.
[12:34.100 --> 12:44.400]  It's amazing to me that a mailing list that you just put on against your will, you're able to be able to crash an inauguration, or not an inauguration, but a swearing-in ceremony.
[12:44.720 --> 12:45.700]  I'm in Pennsylvania.
[12:46.280 --> 12:47.320]  I'm down here in Pennsylvania.
[12:47.500 --> 12:48.280]  I didn't get any invitation.
[12:48.400 --> 12:49.260]  What's the name of this representative?
[12:49.280 --> 12:54.440]  Like I said, I don't remember his name, and I wouldn't want to give it out on the radio anyway, but I'll forward you some of the mail.
[12:54.540 --> 12:56.520]  Maybe we can have some fun going down there.
[12:56.680 --> 12:57.120]  Yes, Rob?
[12:57.260 --> 13:03.500]  I just find it strange that apparently some fiend is stealing your identity to support a representative of some sort.
[13:04.160 --> 13:08.400]  What kind of country are we living in when your identity is not safe from being used in some way?
[13:08.400 --> 13:12.180]  And the thing is that he assumes that I supported him, too, because I'm on his mailing list.
[13:12.500 --> 13:13.900]  That's the other funny thing.
[13:14.260 --> 13:17.060]  This might just be some kind of weird mass mailing thing.
[13:17.160 --> 13:23.120]  We actually just wind up watching a TV screen someplace in some room, and that's the event.
[13:23.120 --> 13:29.360]  I don't know if you actually get to talk to the guy or shake hands with him or anything like that, or throw a shoe, whatnot.
[13:29.640 --> 13:31.160]  You know, I have to throw a shoe at something.
[13:31.560 --> 13:32.120]  That's for sure.
[13:32.160 --> 13:34.680]  I have to get a bunch of disposable shoes and start throwing shoes at things.
[13:35.220 --> 13:35.940]  But yeah, you're right.
[13:35.940 --> 13:38.160]  It is going to be part of the vernacular, part of the American...
[13:38.160 --> 13:40.600]  But it's another thing we've stolen from the Iraqis, because they did it.
[13:40.780 --> 13:41.500]  We didn't do it.
[13:41.560 --> 13:41.980]  They did it.
[13:42.060 --> 13:44.020]  It took them throwing shoes to wake us up.
[13:44.300 --> 13:50.500]  I actually, when I was growing up, a couple of neighborhood kids were Turkish, and they taught me about the shoe-throwing thing at a very young age, and I always thought it was kind of cool.
[13:50.760 --> 13:52.800]  And I kind of like that it's entering the mainstream...
[13:52.800 --> 13:54.480]  Did you ever actually throw a shoe yourself, though?
[13:54.800 --> 13:56.000]  I did not throw a shoe myself.
[13:56.440 --> 13:59.540]  I have not worked up that level of, you know, anger at something yet.
[13:59.700 --> 13:59.920]  All right.
[14:00.000 --> 14:01.360]  We're going to go shoe-throwing after the show.
[14:01.440 --> 14:01.600]  Yes.
[14:01.600 --> 14:02.680]  We have a...
[14:02.680 --> 14:04.940]  Here in Philadelphia, we have a shoe-throwing tradition already.
[14:05.360 --> 14:06.400]  It's time-honored.
[14:06.580 --> 14:07.440]  It's been going on for decades.
[14:08.100 --> 14:16.000]  What you do is, after you have a pair of shoes or sneakers that's worn out, you tie the laces together, and then you hurl them up over a...
[14:16.000 --> 14:17.040]  Onto the lamppost.
[14:17.140 --> 14:17.620]  Yeah, you know what?
[14:17.660 --> 14:18.580]  Everybody does that.
[14:18.840 --> 14:20.060]  Yeah, but I mean, there's so many...
[14:20.060 --> 14:24.620]  There's more here in Philadelphia than I've ever seen in any other city, where they're hanging from, like, telephone wires.
[14:24.660 --> 14:26.500]  I heard in New York they represent something.
[14:26.660 --> 14:27.000]  They represent...
[14:27.000 --> 14:27.100]  It's a code.
[14:27.100 --> 14:27.560]  What do they represent?
[14:27.640 --> 14:28.320]  It's a code for what?
[14:28.460 --> 14:29.420]  It's related to drugs.
[14:29.760 --> 14:30.580]  Does it mean...
[14:30.580 --> 14:31.780]  I thought it was where somebody died.
[14:32.000 --> 14:33.900]  I mean, it's where you buy drugs?
[14:34.420 --> 14:37.460]  Well, that's inconvenient, because what if you have to change where you're selling from?
[14:38.040 --> 14:40.780]  Yeah, I think somewhere in the mix it got lost in the sort of meaning.
[14:41.060 --> 14:41.160]  Yeah.
[14:41.160 --> 14:43.620]  It's probably very confusing for people looking to either sell or buy drugs.
[14:43.620 --> 14:44.280]  Yeah, but the shoe.
[14:44.360 --> 14:45.940]  The shoes are there, so I have to...
[14:45.940 --> 14:46.400]  Okay.
[14:46.780 --> 14:50.060]  It's also a big red flag to the cops, too, which isn't very smart.
[14:50.240 --> 14:53.420]  It goes all the way back to Da Vinci, because he used to hide the...
[14:53.420 --> 14:55.200]  Da Vinci threw shoes up on power lines?
[14:55.220 --> 14:56.360]  Yeah, didn't you read the Da Vinci Code?
[14:56.960 --> 14:57.600]  Well, no.
[14:57.760 --> 14:58.720]  I have to now.
[14:58.900 --> 14:59.200]  Wow.
[14:59.420 --> 15:00.460]  He did more than I thought.
[15:01.160 --> 15:05.180]  Also, Bernie, there's something else going on in Philadelphia, just to focus on your city a little bit more.
[15:05.520 --> 15:07.060]  Maybe you can tell us what this is all about.
[15:07.060 --> 15:09.200]  The Army Experience Center.
[15:10.340 --> 15:11.260]  Do you know about this?
[15:11.660 --> 15:12.240]  Yeah, I do.
[15:13.100 --> 15:14.060]  The U.S.
[15:14.140 --> 15:19.460]  Army is kind of having trouble recruiting teenagers now.
[15:20.040 --> 15:21.000]  Oh, I wonder why.
[15:21.200 --> 15:22.340]  Yeah, I wonder why.
[15:22.640 --> 15:24.040]  So they have a marketing problem.
[15:24.300 --> 15:49.960]  So they decided, you know, since kids these days are so into video games and virtual reality stuff, they've set up these virtual reality parks around the country to get people into, get teenagers into experience how cool it is to be in the Army and ride a Humvee and pilot an Apache helicopter and shoot at people with M-16s and things like that.
[15:50.040 --> 15:52.760]  So they've set up here at Franklin Mills, which is just north of Philadelphia.
[15:52.760 --> 15:54.040]  It's sort of a shopping mall.
[15:54.260 --> 15:55.880]  They've set up the very first...
[15:55.880 --> 16:00.260]  It's a pilot of a virtual reality experience for the U.S.
[16:00.300 --> 16:00.520]  Army.
[16:00.580 --> 16:02.060]  And it's free admission.
[16:02.520 --> 16:08.060]  Anybody of any age can come in and actually participate in these virtual reality experiences and games.
[16:08.220 --> 16:10.860]  And the recruiters, they're not wearing uniforms for the first time.
[16:10.860 --> 16:11.600]  So they're not wearing uniforms?
[16:11.980 --> 16:16.120]  No, they're wearing just a, you know, casual attire with black t-shirts.
[16:17.260 --> 16:21.680]  So basically, you don't know you're actually speaking to somebody who represents the military when they're telling you all about it.
[16:21.940 --> 16:23.340]  It's a soft sell kind of thing.
[16:23.340 --> 16:27.420]  So, but then I could be talking to them about it and they wouldn't know that I wasn't part of the military.
[16:27.820 --> 16:28.740]  You know, it would be interesting.
[16:28.740 --> 16:36.080]  Like that person that did that flash mob experiment where they got all these people to wear blue shirts at a Circuit City or something.
[16:36.220 --> 16:36.400]  Right.
[16:36.520 --> 16:36.920]  That's fine.
[16:36.940 --> 16:37.480]  That's fine.
[16:37.600 --> 16:39.280]  To go into this U.S.
[16:39.320 --> 16:52.540]  Army virtual reality experience wearing the same type of clothing and, you know, maybe the same kind of haircuts and so forth and actually pretending you're an Army recruiter and telling them things about what the real Army experience probably is really like.
[16:52.620 --> 16:53.640]  This could be a lot of fun.
[16:53.720 --> 16:57.220]  And they would never see us coming except for the fact we announced it on the radio.
[16:57.360 --> 17:01.340]  But the real Army experience is like this except with bullet holes and pain.
[17:01.340 --> 17:03.180]  Yeah, we could tell people that.
[17:03.460 --> 17:10.040]  Major General Thomas Bostic says what we are doing here is reaching out to Americans, giving them the opportunity to understand their Army.
[17:10.380 --> 17:14.820]  Oftentimes, people have a negative perception of the Army, but the negatives are a very small part.
[17:15.080 --> 17:19.120]  Our soldiers are well-trained, well-equipped, and serving a great mission.
[17:19.280 --> 17:21.600]  Now, this came from Army.Mill News.
[17:21.780 --> 17:26.880]  And it's funny because when I just quoted this, our soldiers are well-trained, the S in soldiers was capitalized.
[17:26.960 --> 17:27.440]  Is that normal?
[17:28.440 --> 17:28.880]  No.
[17:29.020 --> 17:30.400]  I didn't think so, but they didn't.
[17:30.500 --> 17:30.740]  In some languages.
[17:31.100 --> 17:31.300]  Yeah.
[17:31.300 --> 17:34.660]  Well, this is a .mill site, so I think it's the official way of doing it.
[17:34.720 --> 17:39.980]  But apparently, the center's slogan says, the Army is more than you think it is.
[17:40.900 --> 17:42.320]  I've always been worried about that.
[17:42.520 --> 17:46.780]  I mean, the negatives are really small, and if they're lodged deep enough, sometimes you can detect the weather.
[17:47.480 --> 17:47.780]  Uh-huh.
[17:48.900 --> 17:50.380]  Well, that's good to know.
[17:51.480 --> 17:52.020]  All right.
[17:52.220 --> 17:54.760]  What else has been going on in the world?
[17:54.780 --> 17:56.180]  We have a few news stories.
[17:56.320 --> 17:57.420]  We're taking some phone calls.
[17:57.420 --> 18:10.620]  I guess we should also point out that this is one of our special, our second and last of the special fundraiser programs that we have in December as sort of an emergency because of the economy and because of all sorts of other things.
[18:11.340 --> 18:18.780]  We have to once again come to you hat in hand and ask for your support in keeping this place going, this magical place called WBAI.
[18:19.360 --> 18:22.640]  We are offering a couple of things to incite you.
[18:23.260 --> 18:24.040]  Yes, go check.
[18:24.040 --> 18:25.100]  Make sure there's actually people down there.
[18:25.220 --> 18:35.780]  Actually, maybe incite is also the wrong word, but to inspire you to call us at 212-209-2950 and please pledge whatever you can afford.
[18:35.940 --> 18:40.240]  Any pledge, $25 and above, makes you a member of WBAI.
[18:40.320 --> 18:41.680]  You can vote and things like that.
[18:41.780 --> 18:46.160]  Any pledge, $30 or above, gets you an off-the-hook t-shirt.
[18:46.900 --> 18:53.040]  Any pledge, $75 and above, gets you 10 DVDs from the Last Hope Conference.
[18:53.940 --> 18:59.220]  And any pledge, $125 or above, gets you 20 DVDs of the Last Hope.
[18:59.420 --> 19:02.500]  And of course, you also get the t-shirt and the membership and all that.
[19:03.320 --> 19:05.820]  But 212-209-2950 is our phone number.
[19:05.880 --> 19:07.160]  We had a very good response last week.
[19:07.320 --> 19:08.420]  A lot of people called in.
[19:08.520 --> 19:10.180]  We raised, I think, almost $2,000 in an hour.
[19:10.320 --> 19:10.780]  And that's...
[19:10.780 --> 19:12.120]  I wasn't expecting to do that well.
[19:12.420 --> 19:13.500]  Kind of surprised, actually.
[19:14.000 --> 19:15.800]  But that means we have to do it again this week.
[19:16.160 --> 19:19.200]  I mean, I think our listeners know just how important this place is.
[19:19.320 --> 19:20.860]  And we spend all this time telling them.
[19:20.940 --> 19:21.840]  But I think they already know.
[19:22.500 --> 19:22.640]  Yeah.
[19:22.740 --> 19:25.680]  But then again, we might be getting new listeners who have just tuned in for the first time.
[19:25.780 --> 19:31.940]  Let us remind them that this radio program that you stumbled upon has been on the air for 20 years now.
[19:32.560 --> 19:36.100]  In fact, next week at this time, we're going to have a special 20-year retrospective.
[19:37.060 --> 19:38.240]  Because nobody's going to be here.
[19:38.440 --> 19:40.380]  So we have to do that.
[19:40.460 --> 19:43.120]  And we're going to have a special New Year's Eve show a week after that.
[19:44.300 --> 19:50.140]  But this show has been going for 20 years, talking about issues of computer hacking and phone freaking and technology and privacy.
[19:50.600 --> 19:53.980]  And that kind of a thing just is not possible at any other radio station.
[19:54.040 --> 19:58.120]  And you know this because if you tuned to any other radio station, you won't hear anything like this.
[19:58.220 --> 20:00.360]  But the trade-off is that we don't have commercials.
[20:00.500 --> 20:05.420]  And if we don't have commercials, we don't have these people paying us huge amounts of money to keep the place running.
[20:05.640 --> 20:07.060]  That's where our listeners come in.
[20:07.060 --> 20:13.360]  Because if they are able to cover the expenses and help us out, then the radio station continues.
[20:13.560 --> 20:15.780]  And what a radio station it is.
[20:15.940 --> 20:21.940]  Just as powerful as every other radio station in New York City, reaching four states and now the entire world through the internet.
[20:22.500 --> 20:24.560]  And this is just one show.
[20:24.740 --> 20:29.080]  This is just one show of so many that air at 99.5 FM WBAI.
[20:29.240 --> 20:31.080]  212-209-2950.
[20:31.340 --> 20:34.040]  Yeah, to coin a phrase, WBAI is more than you think.
[20:34.380 --> 20:35.300]  Yeah, you know what?
[20:35.300 --> 20:36.400]  We should have that phrase.
[20:36.680 --> 20:38.080]  We should have that phrase, definitely.
[20:38.380 --> 20:39.960]  It's too bad it doesn't spell WBAI.
[20:40.020 --> 20:40.740]  Maybe something else.
[20:41.160 --> 20:41.900]  We have a few.
[20:42.020 --> 20:44.700]  We beg at intervals is one of the things that spells out WBAI.
[20:45.520 --> 20:47.600]  But yeah, we've had a long tradition of doing this.
[20:47.640 --> 20:49.880]  This station has been on the air, by the way, since 1960.
[20:50.000 --> 21:01.240]  Now, what's ironic about this, if you look at the radio dial in New York City, and I know just about every radio station in New York City and its history, and I can probably tell you a bit about any frequency if you want to quiz me.
[21:01.240 --> 21:06.140]  But WBAI is one of the few that has been here for that long.
[21:06.800 --> 21:10.940]  I mean, WNEW, that was a station that was around for a while and was progressive rock and all that.
[21:11.040 --> 21:11.620]  They're not around.
[21:11.820 --> 21:13.560]  K-Rock has come and gone and come back again.
[21:13.860 --> 21:17.720]  There's all kinds of flux in the radio world.
[21:17.800 --> 21:20.340]  But WBAI has remained a constant.
[21:20.900 --> 21:24.580]  And that says something about you, the listeners, because you're the ones that made it possible.
[21:24.740 --> 21:27.140]  1960 was when this place came on the air.
[21:27.140 --> 21:29.280]  We're going to celebrate our 50th anniversary in 2010.
[21:29.900 --> 21:37.740]  And we were the first station, the first station to actually try out asking listeners to help, to support the station, to keep it going.
[21:37.740 --> 21:38.420]  And it worked.
[21:38.520 --> 21:39.380]  And look what happened.
[21:39.780 --> 21:42.120]  Now, everybody's doing it, but we're the ones who started it.
[21:42.320 --> 21:47.280]  And I think our listeners are the ones who really care the most because this station is unlike any other station.
[21:47.440 --> 21:48.580]  Isn't that right, Bicycle Mark?
[21:48.720 --> 21:48.960]  Indeed.
[21:49.180 --> 21:52.260]  And I grew up in New Jersey listening to WBAI when I was a kid.
[21:52.400 --> 21:53.360]  You turned out okay.
[21:53.520 --> 21:53.840]  I did.
[21:57.160 --> 21:59.600]  Wherever I travel, I still listen to BAI.
[22:00.080 --> 22:02.800]  So it really, it's beyond New York at this point.
[22:03.020 --> 22:05.860]  And listening in Europe does not absorb you of...
[22:05.860 --> 22:06.560]  Is that the right word?
[22:06.700 --> 22:06.860]  Absorb?
[22:07.380 --> 22:07.680]  Absorb.
[22:07.800 --> 22:08.080]  Thank you.
[22:08.200 --> 22:09.300]  I'm all over the place tonight.
[22:09.520 --> 22:13.740]  Does not absolve you from the responsibility, the obligation.
[22:13.920 --> 22:15.020]  I don't want to make it sound too serious.
[22:15.040 --> 22:23.560]  But really, if you are listening to the station and you're getting something out of it, you should consider pitching in, helping out, because that's what made the place in the first place.
[22:23.760 --> 22:25.460]  People like you pitching in, helping out.
[22:25.460 --> 22:28.020]  And there are things that I miss about, you know, being in this area.
[22:28.120 --> 22:28.740]  Not that many things.
[22:28.860 --> 22:32.980]  But one of them is, you know, I get to listen to BAI and be part of the community.
[22:33.100 --> 22:33.700]  I mean, that's the thing.
[22:33.800 --> 22:40.780]  You know, to be able to support from no matter where you are in the world, for me, that gives me a great sense of belonging, actually, or being still connected with my roots.
[22:41.040 --> 22:46.300]  Now, I remember, I was just going through this yesterday, actually, because I'm putting together the 20th anniversary show.
[22:46.300 --> 22:52.160]  And I was listening to one of the programs where the coup was in progress in 2001.
[22:52.560 --> 22:56.420]  That's where people tried to take over the radio station, steward in a different direction.
[22:56.620 --> 22:57.900]  There were protests outside in the street.
[22:58.020 --> 22:58.880]  People kicked off the air.
[22:59.000 --> 23:00.220]  It was a really ugly year.
[23:01.120 --> 23:04.760]  And it was a year, I think, a lot of people realized how much this place actually meant.
[23:05.320 --> 23:08.260]  And I was doing a radio show from Amsterdam, in fact.
[23:08.480 --> 23:10.020]  And I was talking about how I was literally...
[23:10.020 --> 23:11.800]  This was one of the first times I was able to ever do this.
[23:11.800 --> 23:19.160]  I was able to listen to the radio station on my laptop, using a Wi-Fi network while I'm walking up and down the stairs in somebody's house.
[23:19.520 --> 23:21.520]  And I'm listening to my radio station back home.
[23:21.580 --> 23:23.920]  It was the most incredible thing that we were able to do that.
[23:24.100 --> 23:25.920]  And now, of course, it's become a lot easier.
[23:26.100 --> 23:27.060]  More people do it than ever.
[23:27.660 --> 23:32.660]  And unlike most radio stations that are constantly cutting back...
[23:32.660 --> 23:33.460]  I mean, we're cutting back, too.
[23:33.520 --> 23:33.940]  We have to.
[23:34.100 --> 23:40.240]  But they're becoming less and less relevant over the years because, well, I mean, you know, anyone can listen to music.
[23:40.240 --> 23:44.740]  Anyone has an iPod or an MP3 player or the internet, they can do the same thing that the radio station does.
[23:44.900 --> 23:51.120]  But who can do what we do, where we have all kinds of discussions and controversial figures coming in and out and call-ins?
[23:51.580 --> 23:52.960]  That is more relevant than ever.
[23:53.020 --> 23:56.640]  This radio station is more unique than all the other stations still to this day.
[23:56.700 --> 23:58.520]  And that's why they keep coming and going.
[23:58.640 --> 24:01.040]  That's why we remain, because we're still relevant.
[24:01.180 --> 24:01.720]  But you know what?
[24:01.720 --> 24:02.800]  There's only one call on the line.
[24:03.140 --> 24:06.220]  So I have to question how relevant we actually are to the listeners listening now.
[24:06.220 --> 24:10.300]  Did you tell the listeners that the number to call is 212-209-2950?
[24:11.940 --> 24:12.420]  No.
[24:12.700 --> 24:12.900]  No.
[24:12.960 --> 24:13.600]  Why don't you do that?
[24:14.420 --> 24:14.900]  Listeners.
[24:15.020 --> 24:15.440]  Listeners.
[24:15.500 --> 24:22.920]  If you want to call in and show your support and all the other things that Emmanuel just said, give us a call on 212-209-2950.
[24:23.660 --> 24:25.660]  We have many pledge levels available.
[24:25.780 --> 24:27.260]  Did you explain the pledge levels?
[24:27.920 --> 24:29.780]  I did, but maybe I did it badly.
[24:30.180 --> 24:31.460]  So maybe somebody else should...
[24:31.460 --> 24:36.380]  But let me just say, though, because you haven't mentioned this, the phone number is 212-209-2950.
[24:36.940 --> 24:38.180]  I was going to mention that.
[24:38.280 --> 24:39.040]  I thought I did.
[24:39.080 --> 24:40.480]  You've got to move fast in this world.
[24:40.560 --> 24:41.140]  That's the important thing.
[24:41.180 --> 24:41.760]  This is New York City.
[24:41.940 --> 24:44.800]  So you've got to step up and hit the ball.
[24:44.920 --> 24:46.180]  212-209-2950.
[24:46.300 --> 24:46.560]  Come on.
[24:46.640 --> 24:47.620]  No more calls coming in.
[24:47.660 --> 24:48.360]  One call on the line.
[24:48.460 --> 24:49.820]  I know there's more people out there.
[24:49.920 --> 24:53.740]  And it's not like we're just asking you to give money and nothing else.
[24:53.780 --> 24:54.920]  We are giving something back.
[24:54.920 --> 24:56.960]  Something really worth a lot.
[24:56.960 --> 24:58.440]  Worth exactly...
[24:58.440 --> 25:01.400]  Actually, it's worth more than what you'd be contributing to us.
[25:01.540 --> 25:04.580]  And it's a donation from 2600 of the DVDs.
[25:04.660 --> 25:08.900]  DVDs says 10 DVDs for a pledge of $75 of the last HOPE conference.
[25:09.100 --> 25:17.840]  That includes speakers like Stephen Levy giving the keynote, Jello Biafra, Stephen Rambam, Kevin Mitnick, all kinds of really cool things.
[25:18.680 --> 25:21.060]  For $125, you get 20.
[25:21.060 --> 25:22.400]  You get 20 DVDs.
[25:22.460 --> 25:25.080]  And that includes lockpicking seminars.
[25:25.080 --> 25:27.040]  That includes the history of phone phreaking.
[25:27.200 --> 25:32.860]  That includes hacking New York City taxis, hacking Wikipedia, how to escape handcuffs.
[25:32.940 --> 25:34.400]  I know that's going to come in handy for listeners.
[25:34.580 --> 25:35.160]  So come on.
[25:35.540 --> 25:37.180]  212-209-2950.
[25:37.580 --> 25:38.480]  Pledge support.
[25:38.480 --> 25:44.300]  So you pledge $125, you get all 20 DVDs, plus a t-shirt, right?
[25:44.640 --> 25:46.620]  You always get the t-shirt if you pledge 30 or more.
[25:46.620 --> 25:47.640]  But you get a HOPE t-shirt.
[25:47.800 --> 25:48.360]  Oh, that's right.
[25:48.360 --> 25:49.440]  I forgot to mention that part.
[25:49.520 --> 25:50.580]  Yes, there's even more to this.
[25:50.740 --> 25:56.380]  You get the HOPE package, which includes a HOPE t-shirt, and also a HOPE badge.
[25:56.800 --> 25:57.100]  Wow.
[25:57.240 --> 25:57.400]  Yeah.
[25:57.620 --> 26:00.080]  So you can get into the HOPE that already happened.
[26:00.220 --> 26:02.020]  You can go back in time and use that to get in.
[26:02.040 --> 26:02.380]  That's true.
[26:02.380 --> 26:09.120]  So you get the DVDs, you get a HOPE t-shirt, you get a HOPE badge, you get the off-the-hook t-shirt, and you get WBAI membership.
[26:09.260 --> 26:11.780]  But most important of all, you get WBAI.
[26:12.440 --> 26:15.000]  So the number is 212-209-2950.
[26:15.100 --> 26:16.520]  That's the number for all of that, right?
[26:16.700 --> 26:16.960]  Yeah.
[26:17.420 --> 26:21.280]  What's the number if you just want to pledge the basic membership at $30?
[26:21.760 --> 26:22.960]  I think it's the same number.
[26:23.320 --> 26:23.640]  Yeah.
[26:23.900 --> 26:24.600]  Are you trying to trick me here?
[26:24.640 --> 26:25.460]  No, it's the same phone number.
[26:26.080 --> 26:27.080]  Just one number to call.
[26:27.340 --> 26:27.480]  Yeah.
[26:27.560 --> 26:29.340]  But, you know, I want to see the phone.
[26:29.480 --> 26:30.780]  I mean, I know we've been doing this a lot.
[26:30.860 --> 26:32.160]  This is the last week we're doing this.
[26:32.380 --> 26:34.080]  This is the last week of this year we'll be doing this.
[26:34.200 --> 26:35.720]  And yes, I know we'll be doing it next year, too.
[26:35.840 --> 26:36.300]  We have to.
[26:36.520 --> 26:38.720]  Like I said, it's the only way this place can survive.
[26:38.720 --> 26:40.740]  But we have to see some phone calls come in.
[26:41.040 --> 26:42.640]  And right now, the board is dead.
[26:42.960 --> 26:46.960]  And just to point out once again, the t-shirt you will get is exclusive to this.
[26:47.080 --> 26:50.580]  You will not get it anywhere else, the off-the-hook t-shirt and the HOPE badge.
[26:50.620 --> 26:52.440]  You will not find that anywhere else ever again.
[26:53.320 --> 26:54.100]  It's out of print.
[26:54.120 --> 26:54.780]  It's out of production.
[26:54.800 --> 26:56.660]  But you'll get one of the remaining ones.
[26:57.200 --> 26:57.740]  That's right.
[26:58.500 --> 26:59.960]  Can we get one call coming in?
[27:00.040 --> 27:01.600]  One person out there making us smile?
[27:01.600 --> 27:02.800]  You know, people are listening.
[27:02.920 --> 27:03.500]  I know you're out there.
[27:03.580 --> 27:04.600]  We take credit cards.
[27:04.860 --> 27:06.800]  This can be a very simple, painless process.
[27:06.800 --> 27:08.420]  And you're helping out this radio station.
[27:08.500 --> 27:12.560]  And you're getting something really, really cool in addition to the continued existence of the radio station.
[27:12.680 --> 27:14.240]  212-209-2950.
[27:15.160 --> 27:16.380]  I see a light lighting up.
[27:16.460 --> 27:19.220]  But I'm not convinced it's a phone call yet until I see it light steady.
[27:19.400 --> 27:20.620]  And yes, go ahead.
[27:20.620 --> 27:21.780]  I was just down there to check.
[27:21.860 --> 27:24.480]  And there's a bunch of volunteers who would be really happy if you called.
[27:24.760 --> 27:25.080]  Okay.
[27:25.520 --> 27:26.660]  I see two calls coming in.
[27:26.700 --> 27:26.980]  That's good.
[27:27.060 --> 27:28.000]  Thank you very much for those calls.
[27:28.000 --> 27:29.180]  Please keep the calls coming in.
[27:29.260 --> 27:30.760]  212-209-2950.
[27:30.880 --> 27:34.240]  We have to break away for something important now out of Philadelphia.
[27:34.480 --> 27:38.660]  Bernie, I'm understanding something momentous is about to happen down there?
[27:38.660 --> 27:39.760]  Well, yes.
[27:39.980 --> 27:53.840]  We've been talking a few times about this digital television transition, which the U.S., the FCC and Congress is mandating happen on February 17th next year.
[27:54.140 --> 28:01.680]  But several stations are doing tests of their DTV transmissions and shutting off their analog transmitters temporarily.
[28:01.680 --> 28:16.000]  And here in Philadelphia tonight, in about four minutes, WHYY TV Channel 12, which is the PBS affiliate here, will be turning off its analog transmitter at exactly 7.30, so they say.
[28:16.220 --> 28:17.260]  That's only three minutes from now.
[28:17.520 --> 28:18.080]  It is.
[28:18.100 --> 28:27.260]  And I thought the listeners would actually like to hear what it's like to hear an analog TV transmitter actually being switched off.
[28:27.700 --> 28:37.780]  Um, it's, you know, you have to kind of convert this to audio, but I mean, there's an audio carrier to, uh, to all, uh, TV broadcast transmissions, so, uh, you'll be able to hear a lead up.
[28:38.480 --> 28:38.860]  Okay.
[28:39.000 --> 28:47.940]  Here's an analog audio, and then, uh, in about three minutes, uh, I'll, you know, I'll, I'll, I'll put my, uh, phone near the speaker of the, uh, of an analog TV.
[28:48.100 --> 28:56.480]  I have this little, little six-inch black-and-white analog TV set that sits on my kitchen counter and works perfectly fine for picking up PBS and a few other stations, which I can't.
[28:56.480 --> 28:59.360]  Okay, and in a few minutes, it's going to become worthless, uh, junk, because it won't...
[28:59.360 --> 28:59.600]  Exactly.
[28:59.740 --> 28:59.880]  All right.
[29:00.100 --> 29:01.500]  It's going to become landfill material.
[29:01.640 --> 29:01.860]  Well, okay.
[29:01.860 --> 29:03.440]  We're going to turn it back on in a minute.
[29:03.500 --> 29:06.080]  Well, Bernie, yeah, in two minutes, this is happening, so we have to move fast.
[29:06.120 --> 29:07.020]  Are you in your kitchen now?
[29:07.080 --> 29:07.700]  Is the TV set on?
[29:08.040 --> 29:09.440]  I'm sitting in my kitchen right now.
[29:09.540 --> 29:12.120]  And, uh, let's hear the audio just for a second of the TV station.
[29:12.220 --> 29:16.880]  Yeah, let me bring the phone over to the television, and I'm going to turn up the audio.
[29:18.040 --> 29:22.040]  And there is a little bit of music right now, which probably sounds terrible over a cell phone.
[29:22.040 --> 29:22.920]  It does, but...
[29:22.920 --> 29:30.980]  Well, there's just an ad or something, but I called and confirmed about an hour ago, and they said they were definitely going to be doing this test at 730, so it's a couple of minutes.
[29:31.140 --> 29:31.760]  I'm not going to subject.
[29:31.960 --> 29:35.180]  We have some infomercials on now for future shows and things like that.
[29:35.180 --> 29:35.320]  All right.
[29:35.520 --> 29:37.840]  This is a test, or they're turning it off for good now?
[29:38.300 --> 29:38.940]  It's a test.
[29:39.080 --> 29:39.160]  Okay.
[29:39.160 --> 29:41.120]  They're going to have to turn it off for one minute, they said.
[29:41.360 --> 29:42.200]  Oh, only for one minute?
[29:42.320 --> 29:42.540]  Okay.
[29:42.640 --> 29:43.260]  Just for one minute.
[29:43.320 --> 29:43.720]  Just for one minute.
[29:43.800 --> 29:44.900]  They're going to turn off the transmitter.
[29:46.180 --> 29:50.640]  Intentionally turn it off to let people see for sure whether they are digital ready.
[29:52.660 --> 29:57.980]  Okay, it just seems kind of silly to turn off their transmitter for one minute to see, so people can see what it's like to have their transmitter turned off.
[29:58.320 --> 29:59.540]  It's sort of like a warning shot.
[30:00.040 --> 30:00.720]  Pretty much.
[30:01.140 --> 30:02.400]  Is this only in Philadelphia?
[30:02.660 --> 30:04.240]  Yeah, it's just this station doing this.
[30:04.380 --> 30:19.260]  Well, other stations are doing it not at this specific time, necessarily, but they're doing it just sort of to put their warning shots out, to let people know, like, hey, if your TV just gone dead right now, you've got a problem, and you need to get a digital converter box or a digital TV,
[30:19.580 --> 30:20.060]  they're really...
[30:20.060 --> 30:37.520]  I just noticed, when the 100 days before January 17th approached, which was a couple of weeks ago, a few weeks ago, all of the commercial and public stations have been hammering and hammering the audience with DTV propaganda, saying, hey, hey, you've got to be prepared for this.
[30:37.840 --> 30:39.440]  You've got to get the converter box or have a digital TV.
[30:39.440 --> 30:42.580]  Bernie, not to interrupt you, but we're down to, like, 30 seconds.
[30:42.700 --> 30:44.980]  Do you want to hold the phone up to the speaker and see what happens?
[30:44.980 --> 30:46.900]  And only on great performances.
[30:47.780 --> 30:49.920]  Night at 9 on WHYY.
[30:50.760 --> 30:51.860]  Here we go.
[30:52.660 --> 30:55.880]  You're watching WHYY, Wilmington, Philadelphia.
[31:02.900 --> 31:04.380]  Perhaps any second now.
[31:05.020 --> 31:05.820]  History in the Making.
[31:05.980 --> 31:13.040]  Well, I'm here at WHYY, and this is a test where viewers still receiving over-the-air analog television signals.
[31:13.300 --> 31:20.880]  Since you're seeing this message, you may not be prepared to receive a new digital television signal on February 17th, 2009.
[31:21.460 --> 31:22.420]  So, what should you do?
[31:22.660 --> 31:30.100]  Well, right now, WHYY has a live phone bank set up to take your calls and answer your questions about the DTV transition.
[31:30.660 --> 31:33.980]  Call 1-888-640-WHYY.
[31:34.320 --> 31:35.340]  Now, that is not our place line.
[31:35.500 --> 31:36.060]  Don't call that number.
[31:36.180 --> 31:37.920]  888-640-9499.
[31:38.380 --> 31:40.960]  The phone bank will be open until 8.30 tonight.
[31:41.340 --> 31:43.740]  So, if you don't get through right now, keep trying.
[31:44.280 --> 32:00.560]  Once again, since you're seeing this message, you may not be prepared for the DTV transition, and you may need to take steps to continue to receive over-the-air television, including purchasing a digital converter box or subscribing to a cable or satellite television service.
[32:00.980 --> 32:12.420]  So, if you have a question about the DTV transition, call right now, 1-888-640-9499.
[32:12.820 --> 32:19.660]  One step you may need to take is buying a digital television converter box to connect to your over-the-air antenna.
[32:20.080 --> 32:24.360]  The government has a special program to help make the converter boxes more affordable.
[32:24.760 --> 32:26.360]  You can receive a government...
[32:26.360 --> 32:26.920]  You know a manual?
[32:27.140 --> 32:27.440]  Yes.
[32:27.840 --> 32:28.180]  You hear me?
[32:28.900 --> 32:32.060]  Apparently, they lied, and that can actually shut the transmitter off at 7.30.
[32:32.160 --> 32:33.080]  They're going to start the spiel.
[32:33.180 --> 32:34.180]  So, I'm going to monitor this.
[32:34.440 --> 32:36.340]  I don't think they're going to shut the transmitter off at all.
[32:36.420 --> 32:37.420]  It's not like they're just going to do...
[32:37.420 --> 32:39.180]  No, they confirmed it.
[32:39.220 --> 32:41.900]  I heard this on the air, and I called, and they confirmed they're going to shut it off.
[32:42.200 --> 32:44.160]  Yeah, but if you're able to see this, what does that mean?
[32:44.160 --> 32:46.680]  They're broadcasting something else for people that do have digital?
[32:47.020 --> 32:54.420]  Well, they're broadcasting a show leading up to turning it off at 7.30, which is probably they're going to not shut it off right at 7.30.
[32:54.560 --> 32:54.840]  Uh-huh.
[32:55.440 --> 33:02.940]  Well, I think they're probably just not broadcasting this on the digital one, so the digital people are happily watching a commercial while everybody else is sitting through that.
[33:02.940 --> 33:08.660]  I think what they're doing is they're just making it simple for people like us that, yes, they're turning it off, but they're not really turning it off.
[33:08.720 --> 33:09.900]  That's just my feeling.
[33:10.060 --> 33:10.820]  No, I confirmed.
[33:10.960 --> 33:13.340]  I talked to one of the engineers an hour ago.
[33:13.440 --> 33:20.600]  They said they are going to shut off the analog transmitter, and the process starts at 7.30, but this is just the lead-up.
[33:20.820 --> 33:22.580]  But I don't want listeners to have to hear this whole lead-up.
[33:22.860 --> 33:23.660]  They're still going?
[33:23.780 --> 33:24.240]  I'll turn the audio back up.
[33:24.400 --> 33:25.320]  They're still going with this?
[33:25.460 --> 33:25.880]  Yeah, yeah.
[33:26.000 --> 33:27.400]  They're doing the spiel.
[33:27.760 --> 33:28.000]  Okay.
[33:29.060 --> 33:30.440]  Are they almost finished, do you think?
[33:31.020 --> 33:31.420]  Right here.
[33:32.620 --> 33:34.160]  ...view over-the-air television.
[33:34.540 --> 33:41.520]  Once again, since you're seeing this test, you may not be prepared for the DTV transition coming on February 17th.
[33:41.880 --> 33:47.360]  To have your questions answered, call our special DTV hotline that is running until 8.30 tonight.
[33:47.580 --> 33:51.120]  Call 1-888-640-H-Y.
[33:51.500 --> 34:00.260]  W-H-Y-Y is committed to helping our members and viewers through the digital transition happening on February 17th, 2009.
[34:00.680 --> 34:01.880]  Thank you very much.
[34:02.080 --> 34:03.140]  Let's see what they're going to do here.
[34:05.080 --> 34:07.900]  The transition to digital television is...
[34:07.900 --> 34:12.140]  I have plenty of questions floating around, but what everyone...
[34:12.140 --> 34:13.040]  Yeah, what a gyp.
[34:13.220 --> 34:14.720]  Yeah, they did what I thought, didn't they?
[34:14.760 --> 34:15.820]  They didn't actually turn it off.
[34:16.140 --> 34:22.260]  Well, it's a gyp, because if you have a digital TV and you have it in analog mode, it will auto-switch and scan to a digital signal.
[34:22.660 --> 34:25.980]  So maybe they're going to do it in a few minutes, but that's such a gyp.
[34:26.080 --> 34:27.760]  They just went back to normal programming, right?
[34:27.780 --> 34:37.820]  If you have a digital television, right, and you're already watching the digital channel, then... Oh, I see what you're saying, Bernie, is that it would... But the digital frequencies are different from the analog ones.
[34:38.240 --> 34:38.900]  They're not the same.
[34:38.900 --> 34:38.900]  Right.
[34:39.240 --> 34:44.120]  But what's... Actually, Channel 12 here in Philadelphia is going to be rebroadcasting...
[34:44.120 --> 34:54.220]  It's going to be broadcasting their reassigned channel of 50, 5-0, on digital channels, but they're going to be broadcasting their... The virtual channel is still going to be Channel 12.
[34:54.480 --> 34:54.920]  Exactly.
[34:55.060 --> 34:55.200]  Right.
[34:55.400 --> 34:56.960]  So everything is still going to keep the same channel.
[35:00.520 --> 35:04.930]  They have a picture of a guy hitting an analog TV with just noise on the screen.
[35:07.930 --> 35:08.250]  Okay.
[35:08.370 --> 35:10.310]  Well, that's nice, but it's still not turning off the transmitter.
[35:11.850 --> 35:14.040]  No, the screen says, is my TV going away?
[35:14.500 --> 35:17.370]  And it is set for February 17, 2009.
[35:17.730 --> 35:17.950]  Okay.
[35:17.950 --> 35:18.560]  Well, you know what, Bernie?
[35:18.660 --> 35:21.810]  Let us know if they actually turn the station off, because that's what I was looking forward to.
[35:21.960 --> 35:23.080]  I'm sorry to get everybody's hopes up.
[35:23.190 --> 35:25.950]  I was hoping to hear just the, you know, the hash noise.
[35:26.520 --> 35:27.120]  Just like the...
[35:27.120 --> 35:29.250]  Oh, you'll hear plenty of that after February 17.
[35:29.430 --> 35:30.190]  Don't worry, Rob.
[35:30.480 --> 35:33.690]  I'm just terribly amused by how they're treating this like a huge disaster.
[35:33.890 --> 35:36.480]  I mean, we've all watched TV through disasters, natural and otherwise.
[35:36.810 --> 35:43.770]  It's going to be a huge disaster, because there are going to be so many people that won't be able to get television who can't afford to pay for cable or a satellite, and they're the ones that are going to be hurt.
[35:43.930 --> 35:52.060]  You know, I can imagine, though, somebody is sitting at home, and they don't really know much about the digital TV thing, and they have their nice brand new HD TV, and they're tuned to the analog channel.
[35:52.210 --> 35:52.310]  Yeah.
[35:52.410 --> 35:56.460]  And they're freaking out right now, because they think that they don't have support for the HD channel.
[35:56.520 --> 35:56.660]  Yeah.
[35:56.790 --> 35:59.930]  People are calling that hotline now, asking all kinds of bizarre questions, I'm sure.
[36:00.060 --> 36:00.190]  Yeah.
[36:00.500 --> 36:02.500]  But, yeah, for instance, there are hospitals.
[36:02.500 --> 36:11.710]  In fact, Jim's nursing home, when we visited him there, it didn't have a converter, and that would have been... that's going to be a disaster for people in situations like that.
[36:11.810 --> 36:12.520]  Prisons, for instance.
[36:12.750 --> 36:15.040]  And I know people will say, oh, they're prisoners, they don't deserve television.
[36:15.190 --> 36:17.750]  But, you know, Bernie, this is something else that you can speak to.
[36:17.870 --> 36:27.310]  Certainly, in prisons, television tends to keep people from getting involved in worse things, and to have it suddenly get cut off, because they don't have a way of converting to the digital signal.
[36:27.580 --> 36:28.450]  It's a disaster.
[36:28.950 --> 36:31.980]  It's a great pacifier, television is, to prisoners.
[36:32.250 --> 36:33.580]  It sort of mollifies them.
[36:33.850 --> 36:40.600]  But people in prisons, but nursing homes and hospitals, as you mentioned, they don't have cable, and a lot of them don't.
[36:41.060 --> 36:48.060]  Suddenly, and I don't see any system in place to get these people set up with converter boxes or get them set up with cable.
[36:48.230 --> 36:52.790]  And there's going to be a lot of older folks and people who just aren't aware of what's going on with this.
[36:52.960 --> 36:54.250]  They're going to be left high and dry.
[36:54.250 --> 36:58.750]  For people who have been away on safari for a few years, and they come back, and all of a sudden, nothing works anymore.
[36:58.770 --> 37:01.330]  It's really going to be amazing.
[37:01.580 --> 37:08.660]  But I mean, in theory, couldn't there be a box that you hook up on the antenna end that basically just converts the digital back down to the analog?
[37:09.060 --> 37:11.870]  I mean, that's basically what digital converter boxes are now, right?
[37:12.040 --> 37:16.730]  The only difference is on those, I'm assuming they have their own television remote that you have to use to flip the channels.
[37:16.890 --> 37:23.710]  But I don't see why an institution or somebody couldn't build a device for institutional situations where it just rebroadcasts all of those channels.
[37:23.710 --> 37:25.620]  Do any of us actually have one of these devices?
[37:25.950 --> 37:27.140]  Has anyone actually gotten one?
[37:27.230 --> 37:28.250]  I have a TV.
[37:28.450 --> 37:29.100]  Bicycle Mark, you have one?
[37:29.190 --> 37:33.660]  Well, I just arrived at home a few days ago, and I noticed my parents have one in the house.
[37:33.770 --> 37:33.910]  Really?
[37:34.020 --> 37:34.730]  I don't know what it's for.
[37:34.810 --> 37:36.120]  Well, I mean, I guess it might be for our TV.
[37:36.190 --> 37:36.600]  I'm not sure.
[37:36.850 --> 37:37.000]  Well, yeah.
[37:37.000 --> 37:38.410]  So there's one in the house, but it's not hooked up at all.
[37:38.520 --> 37:39.480]  And I don't predict it ever will go.
[37:39.480 --> 37:47.790]  Now, that website, DTV2009.gov, I swear to God, I have never seen anything so bitchy as far as agreeing to send you one or not.
[37:53.910 --> 37:59.870]  But it was a while ago, and I didn't bother going out in the 90-day window that I had from when they mailed it to buy the thing.
[37:59.950 --> 38:03.190]  Apparently, if you don't do that, it's no good anymore, and you can't get another one.
[38:03.430 --> 38:10.750]  So I've been trying all kinds of different addresses that I have access to, and they always have a reason why they're not going to send it to you.
[38:11.080 --> 38:11.810]  This is a P.O.
[38:11.830 --> 38:12.000]  box.
[38:12.040 --> 38:12.620]  You don't send a P.O.
[38:12.620 --> 38:12.830]  box.
[38:12.870 --> 38:13.710]  This is a commercial address.
[38:13.790 --> 38:14.330]  We're not doing that.
[38:23.710 --> 38:25.290]  Somebody gets this, and they move.
[38:25.520 --> 38:28.250]  The person who moves in after them can't get it, and they just never replied.
[38:29.020 --> 38:29.750]  I finally...
[38:29.750 --> 38:31.390]  We were able to hack the system a little bit.
[38:31.620 --> 38:44.690]  If you enter as an apartment number, I think it's 2FL, second floor, they will send you a little thing saying, you have to certify that this is, in fact, an address, and then you click certify, and then the website stops responding.
[38:44.910 --> 38:45.580]  So it's just...
[38:45.580 --> 38:47.730]  It's like pulling teeth trying to get one of these things.
[38:48.350 --> 38:49.710]  And I don't even want one.
[38:49.750 --> 38:53.500]  I just want to see what one looks like, and I just want to see if I can actually qualify in any way.
[38:53.620 --> 38:54.580]  They're making it very, very difficult.
[38:54.830 --> 38:56.230]  But you already did qualify.
[38:56.430 --> 38:58.100]  I did, but I blew it because I didn't...
[38:58.560 --> 39:00.160]  They were not going to honor this thing.
[39:00.250 --> 39:01.410]  Why is it only for 90 days?
[39:01.540 --> 39:06.790]  Like, I know I'm in the same boat where they sent me one, and then I didn't use it, but I accept that as my fault.
[39:06.790 --> 39:08.080]  Well, you don't have a TV, for one thing.
[39:08.370 --> 39:09.190]  That's a minor detail.
[39:09.230 --> 39:10.460]  That's one reason why you wouldn't have.
[39:10.500 --> 39:11.910]  I just want to see what one is like.
[39:11.950 --> 39:15.620]  I want to get one for free because, supposedly, that's the whole idea of this program.
[39:15.890 --> 39:16.480]  That's the other thing.
[39:16.560 --> 39:20.910]  The coupon is for $40 off, but I couldn't find a converter box for $40 or less.
[39:20.980 --> 39:22.910]  Yeah, shoving this thing down people's throats, they should...
[39:22.910 --> 39:27.850]  provide the hardware so people can actually play this silly game that they're playing.
[39:27.850 --> 39:29.060]  Who's funding this program, anyway?
[39:29.190 --> 39:29.710]  I don't know.
[39:29.850 --> 39:30.750]  I guess we are, in the end.
[39:30.850 --> 39:32.160]  We seem to fund everything else.
[39:33.040 --> 39:35.770]  So, yes, DTV is coming your way in February.
[39:35.960 --> 39:37.040]  Mass chaos in the streets.
[39:37.930 --> 39:38.960]  Looking forward to it.
[39:39.000 --> 39:41.100]  Looking forward to it like so many other things.
[39:41.120 --> 39:42.660]  But right now, something to look forward to.
[39:48.660 --> 39:52.820]  Yes, it's the weekly feature, .gov, of the week.
[39:53.500 --> 40:05.760]  And this week, we swear we're going to keep it to a minimum, because what we do is we take a look at a .gov site that might be a little bit unusual or different or exciting or fun and give you some tips on how to use it.
[40:05.840 --> 40:09.640]  Last week, though, we went on for about an hour and a half on this, and it was a bit crazy.
[40:10.460 --> 40:13.100]  I don't remember what site we looked at last week, but it was...
[40:13.100 --> 40:14.300]  It had bubble noises.
[40:14.460 --> 40:15.120]  It had bubble noises.
[40:15.300 --> 40:17.340]  It was something about being a cool guy.
[40:17.360 --> 40:19.460]  It was about how to say no to drugs if you're a kid.
[40:19.680 --> 40:19.720]  Alcohol.
[40:19.720 --> 40:20.180]  Yeah.
[40:20.400 --> 40:24.080]  This week, the site that we look at is called usability.gov.
[40:24.660 --> 40:30.200]  It's your guide for developing usable and useful websites.
[40:30.660 --> 40:36.000]  So if you want to develop a website and you want the government to help you, they'll be happy to do this.
[40:36.140 --> 40:53.960]  They have several usability topics, usability and government, lessons learned, requirements and best practices, usability basics, research-based guidelines, templates and examples, usability methods, all kinds of tips about how to actually put together a site.
[40:54.080 --> 40:56.520]  This is not for disabled people, right?
[40:56.560 --> 41:01.080]  Because I know there's a whole standard for making your site accessible for people with disabilities.
[41:01.400 --> 41:02.760]  This says nothing about disabilities.
[41:03.500 --> 41:04.460]  Just usability.
[41:04.700 --> 41:04.840]  Yeah.
[41:04.960 --> 41:07.720]  They say planning is critical because it helps you focus your objectives.
[41:07.760 --> 41:13.980]  It also helps you plan for usability activities that are part of the process of developing a successful site.
[41:14.240 --> 41:21.660]  You must think about what you want to achieve and create a focused vision that will benefit both your users and your company or agency.
[41:22.260 --> 41:23.220]  Think about the process.
[41:23.540 --> 41:24.500]  Learn about users.
[41:24.780 --> 41:25.840]  Conduct task analysis.
[41:26.080 --> 41:27.360]  Follow research-based guidelines.
[41:27.540 --> 41:28.120]  What are the guidelines?
[41:28.240 --> 41:28.980]  Who should use the guidelines?
[41:29.160 --> 41:30.180]  Can I customize the guidelines?
[41:30.380 --> 41:31.520]  Do the guidelines have limitations?
[41:31.880 --> 41:32.920]  Develop a plan.
[41:33.240 --> 41:33.860]  Create a plan.
[41:34.100 --> 41:35.480]  I guess that's part of developing a plan.
[41:36.360 --> 41:37.820]  Determine project scope.
[41:38.180 --> 41:39.280]  Identify user audiences.
[41:39.480 --> 41:39.980]  Set objectives.
[41:40.240 --> 41:41.400]  Assemble a project team.
[41:41.400 --> 41:42.480]  Hold a kickoff meeting.
[41:42.720 --> 41:44.140]  Team visions and perceptions.
[41:44.460 --> 41:44.720]  Wait, wait.
[41:44.900 --> 41:45.500]  Project reality.
[41:45.920 --> 41:48.940]  Do you hold the kickoff meeting like midway through this process?
[41:49.640 --> 41:50.200]  Well, yeah.
[41:50.320 --> 41:51.020]  It's step number five.
[41:51.260 --> 41:51.780]  All right.
[41:52.500 --> 41:53.900]  And you have to write a sow.
[41:55.000 --> 41:55.600]  A sow.
[41:55.700 --> 41:55.980]  A sow.
[41:55.980 --> 41:56.960]  Like a female pig?
[41:57.600 --> 41:58.640]  Well, that's rather...
[41:58.640 --> 42:02.960]  Yeah, it's a barbaric way of saying it, but it's actually a statement of work, a sow.
[42:03.220 --> 42:03.520]  Oh.
[42:03.980 --> 42:05.120]  And the first part of that...
[42:05.120 --> 42:05.800]  What does that have to do with pigs?
[42:05.800 --> 42:06.660]  Well, what is a statement of work?
[42:06.720 --> 42:08.060]  I guess you'd be part of that.
[42:08.960 --> 42:09.960]  What should it include?
[42:10.140 --> 42:11.060]  Examples and templates.
[42:11.060 --> 42:13.320]  And finally, hire a usability specialist.
[42:13.320 --> 42:15.780]  That's after you're done giving up on all the others.
[42:16.120 --> 42:20.600]  Hire a usability specialist, what to ask, and where to look for consultants.
[42:20.760 --> 42:22.520]  It goes on and on and on about all that.
[42:22.660 --> 42:25.740]  Every single detail has gone over in fine-toothed detail.
[42:25.900 --> 42:31.900]  You know how every once in a while you hear about those crazy government research projects that are being funded by taxpayer funds?
[42:32.020 --> 42:35.720]  You know, like count how many bears are walking around in Wyoming or something?
[42:35.720 --> 42:36.460]  Do you think this is one of them?
[42:36.600 --> 42:38.660]  No, I'm thinking that they're all getting websites now.
[42:39.000 --> 42:39.260]  Uh-huh.
[42:40.060 --> 42:41.740]  Yeah, well, it's true.
[42:41.960 --> 42:47.440]  But they'll answer a lot of important questions, like what should you ask in a screening questionnaire?
[42:47.560 --> 42:51.420]  For templates you can use, see usability test screeners.
[42:51.520 --> 42:56.960]  The questions are examples taken from government website screeners that might be included in your screening questionnaire.
[42:57.200 --> 43:02.020]  You may want other questions or a different mix of participants for a usability test of your site.
[43:02.020 --> 43:05.320]  I like to count the number of times usability is said on this website.
[43:05.760 --> 43:07.560]  It just goes on and on forever.
[43:07.740 --> 43:10.420]  But the important thing is that this thing is kept updated.
[43:10.620 --> 43:15.140]  And there's all kinds of information on World Usability Day 2007 coming up.
[43:15.520 --> 43:23.480]  And that's hosted by the Usability Professionals Association to draw public attention to the need for greater usability in products and services important to life.
[43:23.640 --> 43:24.320]  When is it?
[43:24.680 --> 43:29.500]  It's the third annual World Usability Day will be celebrated on November 8, 2007.
[43:29.500 --> 43:33.040]  I'm kind of curious, how did you stumble upon this .gov?
[43:33.160 --> 43:34.680]  I did not need to stumble upon to get there.
[43:34.800 --> 43:37.440]  I just looked around and found it.
[43:37.780 --> 43:39.880]  Searching usability would be pretty general.
[43:40.040 --> 43:47.880]  But our listeners are welcome to send us more ideas and, I guess, inspiration to go to other .gov sites.
[43:48.020 --> 43:54.460]  But I find it amazing that with all the talk about usability that they don't have anything beyond 2007 on their website.
[43:54.460 --> 43:55.920]  So I think they need some help.
[43:55.920 --> 43:59.400]  Maybe they feel that the usability problem has been solved.
[44:00.100 --> 44:00.580]  Maybe.
[44:00.780 --> 44:02.600]  Maybe they need to hire a usability specialist.
[44:02.620 --> 44:03.540]  I think that might be it.
[44:03.700 --> 44:08.780]  So if you go to usability.gov, I'm sure you'll see all kinds of contact information.
[44:08.780 --> 44:14.660]  So if you're able to help them, by all means, go and send them an email and offer your services.
[44:15.120 --> 44:19.320]  And usability.gov will once again be something that's usable.
[44:24.720 --> 44:27.680]  And that concludes this week's edition of .gov of the week.
[44:27.820 --> 44:34.320]  Again, if you have suggestions for .gov sites you'd like us to visit and focus on, email OTH at 2600.com.
[44:34.560 --> 44:40.440]  We'll be happy to point our browsers at the .gov site and get into all sorts of trouble.
[44:42.780 --> 44:46.420]  Now, this is a kind of a sad note.
[44:47.460 --> 44:58.100]  Apparently, this project that we were talking about in weeks past, about the MTA putting cameras on all the buses, well, apparently they're not able to do it anymore.
[44:58.560 --> 45:05.520]  The MTA has conceded its plan to fit every bus with a security camera has come to a grinding halt.
[45:06.000 --> 45:09.660]  North Carolina-based Integrion has gone out of business.
[45:09.660 --> 45:16.180]  Every company that begins with integrity or whatever never matches that particular word.
[45:16.260 --> 45:17.500]  But apparently, they've gone out of business.
[45:17.640 --> 45:23.020]  Its security system had all kinds of issues, according to a vice president in the MTA's bus department.
[45:23.660 --> 45:27.840]  Now, only 272 buses have cameras in them.
[45:27.960 --> 45:29.280]  Almost all of them operate in Manhattan.
[45:29.940 --> 45:36.560]  And the funny thing about all this is that a few years ago, I think most people would say that's an invasion of privacy, putting cameras on buses.
[45:36.560 --> 45:39.920]  But now, the reaction is, oh, my God, they haven't put cameras on all the buses.
[45:40.300 --> 45:41.760]  We need cameras on all the buses.
[45:42.420 --> 45:44.320]  How are we going to address this crisis?
[45:44.580 --> 45:47.340]  Well, to be fair, this is the reaction from the New York Post, which is not...
[45:47.340 --> 45:48.340]  It's not just the New York Post.
[45:48.840 --> 45:50.220]  I've seen this in a number of media outlets.
[45:50.380 --> 45:56.140]  And basically, with the stabbing death of a bus driver a week or two ago, that's what they're focusing on.
[45:56.140 --> 46:02.120]  And they say, well, you know, cameras are essential for catching criminals and preventing crime and things like that.
[46:02.540 --> 46:10.360]  I think they do mention, though, that the MTA is looking into putting some sort of dividers for the bus drivers to at least protect them, which I've seen in other countries, a lot of other countries.
[46:10.440 --> 46:12.900]  Not every other country, but I've definitely seen it.
[46:12.920 --> 46:17.200]  So it's either a camera or a barricade that we need to protect people and keep our society secure.
[46:17.480 --> 46:19.640]  It's just, you know, things have changing so much.
[46:19.720 --> 46:23.080]  You go back 10 years, we didn't have a barricade or a camera, and people worked fine.
[46:23.080 --> 46:28.800]  But now, apparently, if we don't have either one of these things or both, it's going to be chaos and a very dangerous situation.
[46:29.320 --> 46:32.860]  I think it's ironic how they're saying it's necessary.
[46:33.100 --> 46:40.380]  And, like, the article says that this couldn't have come at a worse time because of the stabbing deaths of bus drivers.
[46:40.600 --> 46:47.400]  But it's just that it proves that the cameras weren't effective at blocking the deaths of the drivers.
[46:47.400 --> 46:49.160]  Well, was there a camera on that bus to start with?
[46:49.240 --> 46:49.920]  I don't know if there was.
[46:50.280 --> 46:52.780]  Thing is, now, school buses all have cameras now.
[46:52.780 --> 46:55.080]  When I was growing up, school buses didn't have cameras.
[46:55.180 --> 47:02.560]  And now, I learned this by talking to people involved in the industry, that whenever something happens on a bus, they can just play it all back.
[47:02.860 --> 47:03.300]  Conversations.
[47:03.420 --> 47:04.340]  They record audio, too.
[47:04.460 --> 47:05.320]  They say, well, did you...
[47:05.320 --> 47:14.240]  If a bus driver is accused of doing something improper, they can simply play back whatever the bus driver said or did, and there's your evidence.
[47:14.560 --> 47:15.540]  It's incredible.
[47:16.000 --> 47:19.300]  This kind of a thing was unheard of years ago, but now it's the norm.
[47:19.300 --> 47:21.360]  And private bus companies will also like...
[47:21.360 --> 47:28.700]  They don't have it on all the buses, but they'll audit their buses by putting cameras so that, I guess, if something bad happens, they can catch whoever did it.
[47:28.840 --> 47:29.060]  Uh-huh.
[47:29.720 --> 47:32.220]  So, yeah, it's not just limited to school buses either.
[47:32.220 --> 47:36.940]  So you might be sitting on a nice air-conditioned charter bus and be videotaped the whole time.
[47:37.020 --> 47:37.640]  Do you know what else I learned?
[47:39.300 --> 47:50.940]  If you go through one of the little red lights that says stop when the bus is letting kids on and off, if you go through that, they'll get your license plate, and they'll send that into the Department of Motor Vehicles.
[47:51.080 --> 47:53.400]  And you get a $250 fine just for that.
[47:53.420 --> 47:57.300]  And it's your word against the bus driver, and I think the bus driver's word carries more weight.
[47:57.560 --> 48:02.880]  So, wow, that's a lot of power that people behind the wheel have in addition.
[48:03.300 --> 48:04.360]  Okay, we have people to thank?
[48:04.900 --> 48:08.240]  We want to thank a bunch of people who already pledged.
[48:08.400 --> 48:18.180]  If you would like to receive our thanks, maybe not on the air, but also deserve our thanks at least, give us a call on 212-209-2950 and pledge your support.
[48:18.340 --> 48:22.740]  But we want to thank Daniel, who's from San Antonio, for his pledge.
[48:24.300 --> 48:29.840]  I've got Cynthia in Caldwell, New Jersey, and Sydney in Montclair, New Jersey.
[48:31.020 --> 48:36.520]  I'd like to thank Patricia from New York, New York, and Michael from Chicago, Illinois.
[48:37.680 --> 48:41.420]  Thanks to Tremsioro from Brooklyn as well.
[48:42.060 --> 48:44.400]  And we'd like to thank Mark from Robbins, Iowa.
[48:45.020 --> 48:45.680]  Robbins, Iowa.
[48:45.760 --> 48:46.520]  And you have one more there, Mike?
[48:46.620 --> 48:47.180]  We have one more.
[48:47.280 --> 48:49.660]  It's Orion from Brooklyn we want to thank as well.
[48:49.720 --> 48:49.940]  Orion?
[48:50.200 --> 48:50.560]  Orion.
[48:50.800 --> 48:51.760]  His first name is Orion.
[48:52.100 --> 48:52.940]  That's what it says.
[48:53.080 --> 48:54.220]  Wow, that's interesting.
[48:54.460 --> 48:57.020]  Well, Orion, if your first name is not Orion, you might want to call back and correct that.
[48:57.100 --> 48:58.300]  I've never heard of a name.
[48:58.400 --> 48:59.460]  Is it O-apostrophe?
[48:59.460 --> 49:01.560]  No, like the thing in the stars.
[49:02.080 --> 49:02.900]  Like the Constellation?
[49:03.080 --> 49:03.260]  Really?
[49:03.360 --> 49:04.200]  That's a cool name.
[49:04.320 --> 49:04.880]  That's a neat name.
[49:05.020 --> 49:05.780]  That's a great name.
[49:06.080 --> 49:07.900]  Name your kids after Constellations, folks.
[49:08.020 --> 49:10.420]  It's a lot better than naming them John or Joe or...
[49:10.420 --> 49:11.180]  Or Adolf Hitler.
[49:11.600 --> 49:12.580]  Who does that?
[49:13.100 --> 49:14.480]  There's a news article right now.
[49:14.560 --> 49:17.880]  These white supremacists in Pennsylvania would name their kid.
[49:18.160 --> 49:22.320]  And they went to ShopRite, and ShopRite wouldn't put his name on the cake.
[49:23.120 --> 49:24.340]  Gee, I wonder why.
[49:24.740 --> 49:25.440]  But Walmart would.
[49:25.640 --> 49:26.180]  Walmart would.
[49:26.340 --> 49:27.980]  Of course, Walmart encourages that kind of thing.
[49:28.680 --> 49:29.360]  Yes, Bernie.
[49:29.460 --> 49:32.420]  I mean, are you encouraging people to name their child Big Dipper?
[49:33.120 --> 49:33.480]  Okay.
[49:33.640 --> 49:36.740]  First of all, first of all, the Big Dipper is not a consolation.
[49:36.920 --> 49:38.240]  So let's not rewrite history here.
[49:38.320 --> 49:38.760]  No, it's not.
[49:38.840 --> 49:40.360]  It's part of Ursa Major the Great Bear.
[49:40.460 --> 49:41.460]  Don't get me started on this.
[49:41.860 --> 49:42.120]  Right.
[49:42.360 --> 49:42.600]  All right.
[49:42.620 --> 49:43.800]  Let's get it back to...
[49:44.300 --> 49:46.460]  We're sort of viewing away from the subject matter of the program.
[49:46.460 --> 49:48.860]  Are you encouraging people to name their kids Great Bear?
[49:49.440 --> 49:50.080]  Yeah, why not?
[49:50.140 --> 49:51.700]  Ursa Major, I think, would be a great name.
[49:51.860 --> 49:52.260]  Don't you think?
[49:52.460 --> 49:52.700]  No.
[49:53.080 --> 49:55.480]  Yeah, I think that'd be Ursa Major Goldstein.
[49:55.760 --> 49:56.020]  Huh?
[49:56.380 --> 49:56.660]  Yeah.
[49:57.320 --> 49:58.640]  I'd name my kid that, for sure.
[49:58.780 --> 49:59.180]  Oh, well.
[49:59.900 --> 50:00.320]  All right.
[50:00.900 --> 50:02.000]  This is an important bit of news.
[50:02.060 --> 50:03.560]  But first, let's give the phone number out one more time.
[50:03.560 --> 50:05.260]  212-209-2950.
[50:05.260 --> 50:06.440]  That's our pledge line.
[50:06.560 --> 50:10.120]  Again, we're offering three, at least three pledge levels.
[50:10.220 --> 50:14.440]  In fact, if you don't want anything that we're offering, we have all kinds of other things down there at the pledge people know about.
[50:15.060 --> 50:24.000]  We're offering a 10-DVD set for $75, 10 DVDs of our last conference that took place in July, The Last Hope, and some really good talks there.
[50:24.620 --> 50:28.880]  That's for a pledge of $75, 10 DVDs, a pledge of 125, 20 DVDs.
[50:28.880 --> 50:30.880]  You also get a Last Hope t-shirt.
[50:31.000 --> 50:32.240]  You also get a Last Hope badge.
[50:32.240 --> 50:34.220]  You also get an Off the Hook t-shirt.
[50:34.840 --> 50:37.540]  And you also get membership in WBAI.
[50:37.660 --> 50:42.540]  Most importantly, though, you get this radio station continuing to come your way, bringing Off the Hook to you each week.
[50:42.680 --> 50:43.780]  You could pledge more, too.
[50:43.940 --> 50:44.640]  You could pledge more.
[50:44.760 --> 50:45.480]  You can pledge less.
[50:45.660 --> 50:47.860]  We take any amount, and you can use your credit card.
[50:48.240 --> 50:50.840]  Again, the phone number, 212-209-2950.
[50:50.960 --> 50:51.800]  Country code is one.
[50:51.960 --> 50:53.980]  Yes, those of you overseas, you can call, too.
[50:54.080 --> 50:55.160]  And we do get calls from overseas.
[50:55.320 --> 50:56.920]  I haven't seen any come in today, but...
[50:56.920 --> 50:59.680]  And the volunteers really always like it when we get calls from overseas.
[50:59.680 --> 51:02.500]  It gives them something to, you know, break up their volunteering.
[51:02.840 --> 51:02.960]  Yeah.
[51:03.060 --> 51:03.740]  It's traditional.
[51:03.740 --> 51:08.360]  In fact, if you get a call from overseas that you jump up on the table and say, I have Singapore here or something like that.
[51:08.420 --> 51:10.920]  And everyone sort of gathers around and watches how it goes.
[51:11.380 --> 51:13.040]  So it's kind of cool.
[51:13.120 --> 51:17.080]  It's a whole big structure down there of who has the most interesting phone call coming in.
[51:17.080 --> 51:19.600]  So there's only like 10 minutes left to get these premiums, too, right?
[51:19.600 --> 51:21.820]  Yeah, that's right, because we're finished after this show.
[51:21.920 --> 51:22.700]  There's no more fundraiser.
[51:22.840 --> 51:23.180]  It's over.
[51:24.120 --> 51:28.280]  And then next week, we'll be doing our special 20th anniversary show.
[51:28.480 --> 51:31.440]  So if you want to take advantage of this, believe me, this is not going to be offered again.
[51:32.860 --> 51:33.780]  It's a great deal.
[51:33.820 --> 51:36.080]  But most importantly, call to support the radio station.
[51:36.180 --> 51:36.660]  Keep us going.
[51:36.780 --> 51:37.880]  It's an emergency fundraiser.
[51:37.940 --> 51:39.100]  We don't usually do this in December.
[51:40.340 --> 51:44.720]  But, you know, the economy has really been hitting a lot of us in very bad ways.
[51:44.860 --> 51:46.860]  We got to make sure this place is preserved, though.
[51:46.860 --> 51:48.200]  So it's essential.
[51:48.580 --> 51:51.520]  Imagine the things you wouldn't hear about were it not for this station.
[51:51.660 --> 51:53.120]  212-209-2950.
[51:53.360 --> 51:56.020]  Now, OK, here's an interesting news story that we heard about.
[51:56.440 --> 51:58.020]  Lawmakers have approved a measure.
[51:58.260 --> 52:08.840]  This happened last Thursday, allowing citizens in the country of Estonia to vote by mobile phone in the next parliamentary elections in 2011.
[52:09.780 --> 52:14.440]  Now, apparently, Estonians were allowed to cast Internet ballots in last year's parliamentary vote.
[52:14.440 --> 52:17.140]  The mobile voting system has already been tested.
[52:17.320 --> 52:20.880]  It requires that voters obtain free, authorized chips for their phones.
[52:21.160 --> 52:26.560]  The chip will verify the voter's identity and authorize participation in the electronic voting system.
[52:27.040 --> 52:32.020]  Now, according to them, the system and software have proven effective and reliable in an independent security audit.
[52:32.560 --> 52:34.400]  Security concerns have been dismissed.
[52:34.440 --> 52:39.520]  They claim the system is the most secure way to authenticate digital signatures.
[52:40.040 --> 52:42.860]  Now, I'm a little worried about this.
[52:42.860 --> 52:44.360]  No, actually, that's an exaggeration.
[52:44.480 --> 52:45.400]  I'm extremely worried about this.
[52:45.880 --> 52:53.060]  First of all, if you're voting with a mobile phone, how in God's name do you verify that you are, in fact, the person using the mobile phone?
[52:53.160 --> 52:57.660]  And second of all, how does your vote remain anonymous in anyone's imagination?
[52:57.860 --> 52:58.240]  Mike?
[52:58.240 --> 53:02.140]  So, you have to go somewhere and get a special chip, right?
[53:02.340 --> 53:04.760]  And presumably, at that place, you have to prove you're you.
[53:05.000 --> 53:07.840]  Why don't you just vote at that time and skip the whole mobile phone step?
[53:08.120 --> 53:09.400]  Yeah, that's one way of doing it.
[53:09.820 --> 53:14.520]  I mean, I don't know how the system works, but I could assume it would work in a manner such as this.
[53:14.640 --> 53:18.200]  You go and, I guess, prove that you are who you are to get the chip.
[53:18.200 --> 53:22.340]  But, and then the chip that they give you, they don't identify it as it.
[53:22.400 --> 53:24.400]  They just mark down, okay, this person got their chip.
[53:24.560 --> 53:27.020]  And then when it's time to vote, you, I guess, put it in your phone.
[53:27.160 --> 53:32.260]  And then, so, even though you're making, you know, it sounds almost like they give you a SIM card.
[53:33.180 --> 53:33.820]  In which case...
[53:33.820 --> 53:34.060]  Yeah, maybe they do.
[53:34.120 --> 53:34.800]  Maybe they give you a SIM card.
[53:34.800 --> 53:35.040]  Right.
[53:35.080 --> 53:40.100]  And if they do that, then it wouldn't be, then just because you put it in your phone, it wouldn't be able to identify that it was you.
[53:40.460 --> 53:40.740]  Well...
[53:40.740 --> 53:42.580]  It would be using the SIM card for identification.
[53:42.580 --> 53:54.840]  From what I understand, I remember the bombings in London, when somebody put a different SIM card in their phone in Italy, they were tracked because the phone sent its ID and they realized, hey, this is the same phone.
[53:54.920 --> 53:55.320]  This is the guy.
[53:55.420 --> 53:56.660]  Even though he's using a different SIM card.
[53:57.040 --> 53:58.440]  So, yes, bicycle mark.
[53:58.600 --> 54:06.420]  This should be interesting, actually, when they implement this because, if you recall, Russians, a lot of Russians were upset with the Estonian government because they do have a lot of issues.
[54:06.560 --> 54:07.140]  They do have issues.
[54:07.180 --> 54:13.720]  As a minority population that's often ignored, they already took down the government and, well, government websites in previous years.
[54:13.940 --> 54:14.700]  Hold on a second.
[54:14.900 --> 54:17.180]  This was a little bit of history that got rewritten.
[54:17.340 --> 54:19.240]  It was actually a college student in Estonia that did that.
[54:19.420 --> 54:21.200]  So, the Russians keep getting blamed for this.
[54:21.280 --> 54:21.740]  Was he Russian?
[54:22.200 --> 54:23.060]  No, he was Estonian.
[54:23.200 --> 54:25.540]  I think he was just bored or something and did that.
[54:25.640 --> 54:27.120]  But, yeah, there is resentment.
[54:27.300 --> 54:28.820]  There are definitely issues going back and forth.
[54:28.960 --> 54:32.860]  I think this is going to be a focus of a lot of energy to try and do something with this system now.
[54:33.100 --> 54:33.460]  Yes, Bernie?
[54:33.960 --> 54:36.180]  I was going to say that this system has another problem.
[54:36.180 --> 54:37.720]  That is, if you have to...
[54:37.720 --> 54:43.580]  I'm assuming you have to vote on Election Day with your cell phone and your special voting SIM card.
[54:44.140 --> 54:52.180]  Couldn't somebody with a cell phone jammer, like, park their vehicle and disenfranchise people by parking outside their house that day?
[54:52.200 --> 54:54.660]  Yeah, that is definitely an issue.
[54:54.840 --> 55:07.380]  On the subject of cell phones, though, we're told that, to finish off where we started, at the Obama inauguration, there is going to be a logjam of cell phone calls.
[55:07.540 --> 55:12.640]  Hundreds of thousands of Americans are going to be converging on the National Mall January 20th.
[55:13.080 --> 55:18.360]  But the cellular phone systems around the National Mall are going to be overloaded if the expected record crowds show up.
[55:18.460 --> 55:25.140]  And that's according to a spokesman for the Wireless Association, a non-profit organization that represents wireless carriers.
[55:25.860 --> 55:29.300]  It's like everyone leaving the beach at the same time after the 4th of July.
[55:29.300 --> 55:31.940]  They say, all roads will come to a standstill.
[55:32.080 --> 55:33.600]  And wow, that's going to be something else.
[55:33.600 --> 55:35.160]  So bring your ham radio, I guess.
[55:35.680 --> 55:36.960]  That's one thing I guess you could do.
[55:37.020 --> 55:45.080]  You know, that's actually a kind of a good idea, especially if something happens where maybe you need emergency attention or some, you know, you're going to be stuck in this crowd.
[55:45.300 --> 55:53.000]  If you actually are a ham radio operator and you have your radio, you can probably get the word out much easier than someone trying to get on the jammed cell phone network.
[55:53.140 --> 55:54.120]  You could also just shout.
[55:54.540 --> 55:55.660]  I mean, there'll be a lot of people there.
[55:55.820 --> 55:57.040]  Yeah, but you don't want to talk to those people.
[55:57.120 --> 55:59.000]  You want to talk to the people that aren't there and say, hey, I'm here.
[55:59.000 --> 55:59.500]  And you're not.
[56:00.200 --> 56:03.780]  Similar cellular gridlock situations have occurred at Times Square on New Year's Eve.
[56:03.880 --> 56:07.760]  So you might want to try it out if you come to Times Square this year and see just how hard it is to make a phone call.
[56:08.620 --> 56:19.340]  September 2007, when 20,000 civil rights marchers descended on the tiny town of Janna, Louisiana to protest the arrest of six African-American teens, it was also impossible to receive or make a call.
[56:19.480 --> 56:20.940]  There have been plenty, even 9-11.
[56:21.400 --> 56:22.880]  It was difficult.
[56:22.920 --> 56:25.760]  I was able to make calls, but it was really, really difficult and took a long time.
[56:25.760 --> 56:29.520]  So yeah, you know, I intend to go to the city at least.
[56:29.540 --> 56:34.020]  I don't know how close I'll get to the inauguration, but I'll be testing out cell phones and all sorts of other things as well.
[56:34.080 --> 56:39.220]  See just how that actually works and if it's at all usable.
[56:39.220 --> 56:42.560]  So I guess other folks are encouraged to do the same thing.
[56:43.300 --> 56:48.200]  And finally, we had a letter from a listener who was suggesting...
[56:48.200 --> 56:54.300]  Actually, somebody in the studio suggested this too, and we were talking about the prison problem of people having cell phones inside prisons.
[56:55.240 --> 56:57.860]  And what are the prison authorities going to do about it?
[56:57.880 --> 57:01.940]  They can't block the cell phones because that's illegal, blocking cell phone calls.
[57:02.200 --> 57:08.100]  And I think somebody here suggested that we actually move or they actually move the cell phone transmitters to the prison.
[57:08.100 --> 57:11.800]  Now, actually, that seems like exactly the opposite of what they want to do.
[57:11.900 --> 57:20.260]  But if you do that, and you run the cellular towers from the prison, you can impose all kinds of restrictions.
[57:20.480 --> 57:26.920]  They can't get another signal, and they will actually be able to maybe prevent all calls from coming through by providing a signal.
[57:27.020 --> 57:27.780]  What do you think about that, Bernie?
[57:28.780 --> 57:30.760]  I don't quite think I'd buy that.
[57:30.820 --> 57:35.920]  How would they prevent people from using their cell phones in the prison by moving their cell state by the prison?
[57:35.920 --> 57:42.280]  Because you'd have to use an authorization code or something to make a call that that particular tower would request every time you dial a number.
[57:42.580 --> 57:43.260]  Something like that.
[57:43.600 --> 57:52.080]  I've seen no cellular system that requires you, just by virtue of your location near a certain cell site, you have to enter a code.
[57:52.080 --> 57:53.660]  No, obviously, they'd have to design that.
[57:53.720 --> 57:54.360]  That's the whole point.
[57:54.400 --> 57:55.160]  Anyway, we're out of time.
[57:55.300 --> 57:58.300]  But that's something to mull over for the next couple of weeks.
[57:59.080 --> 58:00.900]  Hang on, I'm fighting with a CD player right now.
[58:00.960 --> 58:02.460]  It's refusing to take the outro.
[58:02.460 --> 58:06.080]  So as soon as I win that battle, yes, do you have something to say, Mike?
[58:06.100 --> 58:11.520]  I was just going to say, while you fight with the CD player, we might want to remind our listeners to call 212-209-2950.
[58:11.520 --> 58:15.000]  There's just a few minutes left to get the premiums and keep the station.
[58:15.220 --> 58:15.680]  That's right.
[58:15.680 --> 58:17.660]  And I've won the battle, so our outro is coming up.
[58:17.880 --> 58:21.820]  Remember to tune in next week for our special 20th anniversary retrospective.
[58:21.900 --> 58:25.300]  And we'll be back live in the studio in two weeks with our special New Year's Eve show.
[58:25.820 --> 58:27.140]  All kinds of fun things coming up.
[59:10.210 --> 59:11.310]  We'll be right back.
[59:41.270 --> 59:51.510]  A little pause...
[59:51.510 --> 59:51.510]  and we are back.
[01:00:56.060 --> 01:00:57.460]  Aha!
[01:00:58.580 --> 01:00:59.680]  Alright!
[01:01:00.220 --> 01:01:00.420]  Hey!
[01:01:00.740 --> 01:01:01.060]  Oh, my God.
[01:01:01.420 --> 01:01:01.620]  Oh, my God.