[00:00.000 --> 00:03.220]  This is the 20th anniversary edition of Off the Hook.
[00:03.500 --> 00:08.400]  For the next hour, we will take a trip down memory lane from 1988 to the present.
[00:08.960 --> 00:10.620]  It's all pre-recorded.
[00:10.900 --> 00:12.160]  Please do not panic.
[00:16.140 --> 00:18.560]  We're sorry for the delay in our programming.
[00:18.760 --> 00:21.000]  Our transmitter appears to be on the road to recovery.
[00:21.280 --> 00:25.160]  We'll now continue with Off the Hook here on WBAI in New York.
[00:26.720 --> 00:30.920]  The number you have reached, one, has been changed.
[00:31.180 --> 00:33.440]  The new number is two.
[00:33.840 --> 00:35.240]  Please make a note of it.
[00:49.160 --> 00:52.040]  The number you have reached has been disconnected.
[00:53.940 --> 00:58.760]  This is Off the Hook, the telephone program, a presentation of WBAI.
[00:58.900 --> 01:00.980]  I'm your host, Emanuel Goldstein.
[01:03.540 --> 01:06.000]  We are having a teleconference here on the air.
[01:06.200 --> 01:08.400]  The phone number is 279-3400.
[01:08.660 --> 01:11.880]  If you call now, you will get a busy signal because all of our lines are lit up.
[01:11.960 --> 01:17.560]  And if you are currently in the process of ringing us, well, you're one of the fortunate few to get through.
[01:17.720 --> 01:19.600]  Just let the phone keep ringing until we get to you.
[01:19.780 --> 01:24.560]  If you have a fairly decent phone company, they won't charge you until we pick up.
[01:24.820 --> 01:26.140]  So you don't have to worry about that.
[01:26.620 --> 01:30.840]  We have Michael from Manhattan, Amy from Manhattan, and Daniel from the East Village.
[01:30.980 --> 01:32.660]  Why don't you all try saying hello at the same time?
[01:33.140 --> 01:33.440]  Hello!
[01:33.720 --> 01:33.900]  Hello!
[01:34.600 --> 01:35.300]  Oh, that was close enough.
[01:35.420 --> 01:35.580]  Okay.
[01:35.880 --> 01:36.240]  Close enough.
[01:36.360 --> 01:37.620]  We're going to go to another call.
[01:39.180 --> 01:39.540]  Hello!
[01:40.240 --> 01:40.900]  Good evening.
[01:40.900 --> 01:41.780]  You are on.
[01:41.900 --> 01:42.400]  Oh, hi.
[01:42.500 --> 01:43.100]  And who are you?
[01:43.300 --> 01:43.960]  I'm Keith.
[01:44.100 --> 01:45.400]  I'm over here in the Garden State.
[01:46.040 --> 01:46.620]  Over where?
[01:46.820 --> 01:48.160]  Over in New Jersey.
[01:48.280 --> 01:48.640]  New Jersey.
[01:48.740 --> 01:49.220]  Where in New Jersey?
[01:49.320 --> 01:49.560]  Jersey!
[01:50.140 --> 01:50.720]  I'm in the Garden County.
[01:50.840 --> 01:51.200]  Hello?
[01:52.040 --> 01:53.360]  You're going to have to talk a little bit louder.
[01:53.540 --> 01:54.040]  How about this?
[01:54.040 --> 01:54.560]  Is this better?
[01:54.580 --> 01:55.200]  That's much better.
[01:56.140 --> 01:56.220]  Yeah.
[01:56.380 --> 01:56.660]  Carrier.
[01:57.740 --> 01:58.100]  Yeah.
[01:58.440 --> 01:58.500]  Yeah.
[02:00.160 --> 02:04.680]  BAI listeners are kind of spoiled because we get to do this every now and again.
[02:07.400 --> 02:09.960]  Somebody... not too many people know how to, I guess, do it.
[02:10.020 --> 02:13.780]  There must be some little trick to getting more than one person on the air at the same time.
[02:13.980 --> 02:14.240]  Uh-huh.
[02:14.400 --> 02:14.660]  Hello?
[02:15.240 --> 02:15.760]  Hold on.
[02:15.800 --> 02:16.280]  Hold on one minute.
[02:16.300 --> 02:16.740]  Who's that?
[02:16.920 --> 02:17.240]  Okay.
[02:17.240 --> 02:18.820]  I'm sorry for the interruption.
[02:19.000 --> 02:19.240]  Okay.
[02:19.240 --> 02:20.680]  This must be the operator.
[02:21.060 --> 02:22.880]  Someone is doing an emergency interrupt on us, right?
[02:23.160 --> 02:23.320]  Right.
[02:23.580 --> 02:25.140]  Well, they can't do that.
[02:25.140 --> 02:25.980]  They can't do that.
[02:26.320 --> 02:29.420]  This is a radio call-in show, and they'll just have to wait their turn.
[02:29.620 --> 02:30.460]  Oh, I'm sorry.
[02:30.700 --> 02:32.280]  Charge them the maximum for that, please.
[02:32.500 --> 02:33.080]  I will.
[02:33.380 --> 02:33.760]  Okay.
[02:34.300 --> 02:48.680]  What was unusual about this case, or most unusual about this case, was the fact that when Kevin Mitnick was arrested in December of 1988, he was held without bail.
[02:49.620 --> 02:57.340]  People around him were drug dealers, kidnappers, all kinds of mean, nasty, ugly things.
[02:57.840 --> 03:05.140]  They were walking in and out getting bail, but Kevin Mitnick, a computer hacker, is still in prison.
[03:05.180 --> 03:11.820]  He has not been out of jail one day since he was put in jail in December of 1988.
[03:12.440 --> 03:17.380]  And I suppose one of the questions we'll be asking tonight is why that is.
[03:17.700 --> 03:23.080]  I'd like at this moment to introduce John Markoff, a reporter from the New York Times.
[03:23.080 --> 03:31.160]  Mr. Markoff has been covering the Kevin Mitnick story from the day it began in December of last year.
[03:31.700 --> 03:37.100]  And I'd like to ask you, John, is this an unusual kind of story?
[03:37.260 --> 03:40.980]  You've been following computer hackers for a while now.
[03:42.240 --> 03:44.100]  What's different about this case?
[03:44.360 --> 03:47.820]  Well, I think what's different here is a matter of degree.
[03:47.820 --> 04:00.080]  In a sense, Kevin's case was one that was waiting to happen, as there have been a variety of these legal incidents over time.
[04:00.080 --> 04:12.380]  And the proximity of Kevin's case with the virus, the Internet virus, was, I think, he picked the absolutely worst time to get himself arrested, in a sense.
[04:12.520 --> 04:15.880]  The country and the government in particular was really looking for an example.
[04:15.880 --> 04:20.040]  And Kevin, for a lot of reasons, turned out to be the perfect example.
[04:20.400 --> 04:29.460]  So, that public service announcement coming to you by way of WBAI, New York, where we always believe in leaving phones off the hook.
[05:38.180 --> 05:40.560]  So, what, you may ask, is this program all about?
[05:40.560 --> 05:44.540]  Well, we come here, and we discuss technology.
[05:45.860 --> 05:47.440]  Technology gone astray.
[05:47.620 --> 05:48.880]  Technology run amok.
[05:49.000 --> 05:52.700]  Technology, perhaps, turning upon its masters.
[05:53.440 --> 05:59.860]  The kind of thing that happens all the time, and the kind of thing that computer hackers, among many others, have a handle on.
[06:00.200 --> 06:11.520]  That's why there's much we can learn through the world of hacking, through the world of telephone freaks, and just general education, something that there is certainly a lack of these days.
[06:12.100 --> 06:14.640]  Technology-wise, we can't figure out how to make phone calls.
[06:14.640 --> 06:17.340]  We can't figure out how to get our own credit reports.
[06:17.400 --> 06:20.120]  We don't know what's in computer files about us.
[06:21.200 --> 06:22.440]  We know very little.
[06:22.440 --> 06:24.140]  Hey, T&T, how can we help you?
[06:24.400 --> 06:26.660]  Hi, I'm trying to find out an area code.
[06:27.460 --> 06:33.120]  I believe it's in California, and the name is Drake's Bad.
[06:33.660 --> 06:34.660]  The area code there?
[06:35.420 --> 06:36.460]  Drake's Bad, California?
[06:36.660 --> 06:36.940]  Yeah.
[06:37.320 --> 06:38.040]  Have you ever heard of that?
[06:38.400 --> 06:39.320]  I'll check it for you.
[06:39.400 --> 06:39.700]  Thank you.
[06:40.800 --> 06:42.080]  D-R-A-K-E-S?
[06:42.340 --> 06:44.160]  Yeah, and contraction.
[06:45.240 --> 06:46.600]  Okay, I have a lot of Drake's.
[06:46.800 --> 06:47.760]  You have a lot of Drake's?
[06:47.860 --> 06:48.920]  You have Drake's Bad No.
[06:49.020 --> 06:50.120]  1, Drake's Bad No.
[06:50.220 --> 06:51.180]  2, Drake's Bad No.
[06:51.240 --> 06:52.300]  3, all the way up until 9.
[06:52.760 --> 06:53.620]  All the way up to 9.
[06:53.680 --> 06:54.600]  I wonder which one I need.
[06:55.100 --> 06:56.720]  You have them all the way up until number 17.
[06:57.180 --> 06:57.500]  Uh-oh.
[06:57.980 --> 06:59.620]  You got them up to 25.
[07:00.700 --> 07:02.280]  They're all the same area code, 916.
[07:02.420 --> 07:03.300]  Oh, they're all 916.
[07:04.000 --> 07:04.300]  Okay.
[07:04.880 --> 07:05.900]  All right, what is that?
[07:05.940 --> 07:07.020]  A special kind of...
[07:07.020 --> 07:09.880]  Well, I thought it was just a place, but apparently there's...
[07:09.880 --> 07:10.840]  How many of them did you say?
[07:11.320 --> 07:12.360]  I guess there's a lot of them.
[07:12.460 --> 07:14.100]  You have a listing up until number 36.
[07:14.500 --> 07:15.600]  Up to number 36.
[07:15.740 --> 07:16.380]  Drake's Bad No.
[07:16.660 --> 07:17.200]  1, No.
[07:17.280 --> 07:18.240]  2, all the way up to 36.
[07:19.000 --> 07:20.960]  Boy, I guess they ran out of names for cities, eh?
[07:21.260 --> 07:21.860]  Yeah, right.
[07:22.500 --> 07:23.400]  Okay, thanks for...
[07:23.400 --> 07:24.400]  I could have 916 for all of them.
[07:25.120 --> 07:25.440]  916.
[07:25.700 --> 07:26.300]  Okay, thank you.
[07:26.420 --> 07:28.660]  Can you connect me to 916 information, please?
[07:28.760 --> 07:29.520]  Oh, no problem, sir.
[07:29.660 --> 07:30.020]  Thank you.
[07:30.200 --> 07:31.400]  If you're the AT&T, have a good night.
[07:31.520 --> 07:31.860]  You too.
[07:37.000 --> 07:37.780]  Here we go.
[07:38.120 --> 07:39.960]  This is, I mean, what city, please?
[07:40.520 --> 07:41.280]  Uh, yes.
[07:41.380 --> 07:41.600]  Hello.
[07:41.920 --> 07:43.960]  Uh, is this the 916 area code?
[07:44.240 --> 07:44.940]  Yes, sir.
[07:45.240 --> 07:45.520]  Hi.
[07:45.680 --> 07:48.480]  I'm trying to find the number for Drake's Bad.
[07:49.600 --> 07:50.080]  California?
[07:50.460 --> 07:50.860]  Yes.
[07:51.300 --> 07:51.700]  Oh, man.
[07:54.130 --> 07:55.790]  Okay, and what number did you need there?
[07:56.190 --> 07:57.890]  Uh, well, let's see.
[07:58.070 --> 08:01.470]  Um, I believe it's just listed as Drake's Bad.
[08:01.470 --> 08:03.550]  You know, I don't, I don't think it's anything more than that.
[08:05.930 --> 08:06.590]  Okay, sir.
[08:06.710 --> 08:11.590]  Then you need to call the operator first and ask for Drake's Bad, Drake's Bad No.
[08:11.690 --> 08:12.050]  2.
[08:13.590 --> 08:15.150]  AT&T, how can we help you?
[08:15.250 --> 08:15.670]  Uh, yes.
[08:15.790 --> 08:15.930]  Hello.
[08:16.030 --> 08:18.590]  I'd like to place a call, please, to Drake's Bad No.
[08:18.690 --> 08:19.570]  2, California.
[08:19.930 --> 08:21.070]  Here you go, the number you're calling.
[08:21.290 --> 08:22.190]  Uh, that's it.
[08:22.310 --> 08:22.910]  Drake's Bad No.
[08:22.990 --> 08:23.210]  2.
[08:24.430 --> 08:25.150]  One second.
[08:25.470 --> 08:25.730]  Okay.
[08:32.340 --> 08:34.320]  Come on, I need your help.
[08:34.440 --> 08:35.840]  He's calling Drake's Bad No.
[08:35.940 --> 08:36.740]  2, California.
[08:36.840 --> 08:37.480]  How do you get that?
[08:40.660 --> 08:42.060]  Assistant, Bill, anyone may I help you?
[08:42.320 --> 08:45.000]  Yes, operator, Drake's Bad, California.
[08:45.940 --> 08:46.600]  What's your number?
[08:46.960 --> 08:47.580]  Drake's Bad.
[08:48.200 --> 08:49.620]  Operator, uh, sir, what number?
[08:49.940 --> 08:51.640]  Uh, I was trying to reach Drake's Bad No.
[08:51.760 --> 08:51.980]  2.
[08:52.300 --> 08:53.020]  Certainly, thank you.
[08:53.220 --> 08:54.300]  How can I dial that direct?
[08:56.040 --> 08:56.400]  Pardon?
[08:56.600 --> 08:57.600]  Can I dial that direct?
[08:57.880 --> 08:59.180]  No, it's a toll station.
[08:59.340 --> 09:00.640]  We have to key it in for you.
[09:00.640 --> 09:03.440]  You mean there's still places in the United States you can't call direct?
[09:04.180 --> 09:04.580]  Right.
[09:04.920 --> 09:05.460]  Oh, boy.
[09:05.700 --> 09:06.280]  Drake's Bad No.
[09:06.280 --> 09:06.580]  2.
[09:06.640 --> 09:07.280]  Uh-huh.
[09:07.420 --> 09:07.840]  Get him.
[09:09.060 --> 09:10.320]  And that's it ringing now?
[09:12.160 --> 09:13.240]  Well, I hope it's it ringing.
[09:15.820 --> 09:17.260]  Oh, well, I guess they're not home.
[09:17.500 --> 09:18.760]  Ah, well, so much for that.
[09:19.380 --> 09:20.300]  Drake's Bad No.
[09:20.420 --> 09:20.660]  2.
[09:20.900 --> 09:24.060]  Yes, it is what is known as a toll station.
[09:25.720 --> 09:26.520]  Toll station.
[09:26.860 --> 09:27.920]  What is a toll station?
[09:27.920 --> 09:35.400]  Well, folks, let's journey back to the 1930s or 1940s or whatever.
[09:36.000 --> 09:40.700]  A toll station is a telephone in a very, very remote area.
[09:40.920 --> 09:48.060]  So thinly populated that not even a small exchange can be maintained.
[09:48.860 --> 09:50.940]  Or at least profitably maintained.
[09:52.640 --> 09:56.240]  One, two, maybe three or four phones in the middle of nowhere.
[09:57.040 --> 09:58.660]  Literally the middle of nowhere.
[09:59.640 --> 10:01.520]  And we have a war going on now.
[10:01.740 --> 10:04.660]  So there's a lot more high tech in the air, so to speak.
[10:05.740 --> 10:13.300]  A lot of need for information, and I want to thank the folks that have been passing on information to us here at BAI and to me personally.
[10:13.920 --> 10:20.700]  I'd like to say that we need especially things like shortwave frequencies.
[10:21.220 --> 10:22.960]  And I know some people have been sending those in.
[10:23.020 --> 10:26.780]  That's very important so that we can get other perspectives on the news.
[10:27.500 --> 10:39.460]  Shortwave frequencies of radio stations in the Mideast and throughout the world, actually, that may be presenting different viewpoints or facts that we might not be getting here.
[10:40.360 --> 10:45.700]  Another thing that we could use quite a bit of are phone numbers over in the Mideast.
[10:45.820 --> 10:52.280]  Phone numbers in Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Iraq, Israel, those kind of places.
[10:52.280 --> 10:58.060]  Things that perhaps you might not see in very many other places.
[10:58.440 --> 11:01.240]  I'm thinking particularly of computer bulletin boards.
[11:02.040 --> 11:11.560]  In fact, the next edition of 2600, the Hacker Quarterly, we're going to be publishing quite a bit of computer bulletin boards from the Mideast.
[11:11.820 --> 11:16.200]  Welcome to NCI Friends and Family Circle Update Line.
[11:16.740 --> 11:20.540]  Please enter your telephone number beginning with your area code.
[11:20.540 --> 11:29.680]  Now, I happen to know somebody that has this particular service, that has MCI as their long-distance carrier.
[11:30.320 --> 11:33.220]  So I'm going to enter their phone number now.
[11:34.320 --> 11:35.080]  Thank you.
[11:35.780 --> 11:38.860]  One moment, please, while we access your account.
[11:39.180 --> 11:39.900]  No problem.
[11:40.820 --> 11:46.120]  To verify your MCI account, please enter your five-digit zip code.
[11:46.520 --> 11:49.880]  Well, there's no way I could get into this, is there?
[11:49.880 --> 11:51.180]  I have to know the person's zip code.
[11:51.420 --> 11:54.780]  Well, let me take a wild random guess.
[11:54.780 --> 12:01.120]  Since I happen to know the person and I know the phone number, getting the zip code should not really be that hard, should it?
[12:03.180 --> 12:07.820]  Congratulations and thank you for being one of our valued friends and family customers.
[12:09.040 --> 12:14.780]  Your calling circle consists of four members and two nominees.
[12:17.060 --> 12:23.700]  If you would like to inquire about a specific member or nominee to your calling circle, press one.
[12:24.140 --> 12:28.780]  To hear the status of each person in your calling circle, press two.
[12:30.260 --> 12:32.180]  Let's hear status on everybody.
[12:33.520 --> 12:40.720]  We will first list your friends and family circle nominees who are not currently active members of your calling circle.
[12:40.720 --> 12:45.580]  If at any time you wish to interrupt this list, press nine.
[12:46.020 --> 12:50.820]  To speak with an MCI customer service representative, press zero.
[12:52.100 --> 13:04.780]  Your wife at two, one, two, three, two, four, one, was an active member of your calling circle but recently changed from MCI.
[13:05.240 --> 13:06.480]  Have they moved?
[13:06.480 --> 13:11.700]  If so, please press zero for an MCI representative to update their status.
[13:12.040 --> 13:16.240]  By the way, we're censoring some of the phone numbers so you won't hear the entire phone number.
[13:16.240 --> 13:28.500]  Business associate at two, one, two, three, two, four, zero, was an active member of your calling circle but recently changed from MCI.
[13:28.780 --> 13:31.200]  Now, you've been blind all your life, is that correct?
[13:31.200 --> 13:32.060]  Yeah.
[13:32.240 --> 13:33.540]  I like to say no, not yet.
[13:33.700 --> 13:35.300]  But, yeah, I was born totally blind.
[13:35.300 --> 13:37.320]  Me and my sister were born totally blind.
[13:37.600 --> 13:38.020]  Really?
[13:38.240 --> 13:44.380]  Now, do you think that's added to your abilities to listen to phone sounds like this?
[13:44.740 --> 13:45.700]  It may have.
[13:45.700 --> 13:48.660]  I've met some sighted people that were really good at listening.
[13:48.660 --> 13:53.920]  Like, I can tell frequencies to within about 1% on the cycles per second.
[13:53.920 --> 13:57.180]  For instance, 2600 is...
[13:58.800 --> 14:05.240]  That's a tone that originally has been the backbone of controlling the off-hook and on-hooks on long-distance circuits.
[14:05.480 --> 14:05.860]  The way...
[14:05.860 --> 14:08.300]  You could even dial with that a number of years ago.
[14:08.300 --> 14:10.520]  I whistled back in the 50s and 60s.
[14:10.720 --> 14:12.440]  You were known as the whistler, weren't you?
[14:12.660 --> 14:12.920]  Yeah.
[14:13.140 --> 14:16.400]  And that's using 2600, so that's how, in case...
[14:16.400 --> 14:20.680]  Maybe everybody knows, but that's how the name 2600 came out for the magazine.
[14:20.820 --> 14:21.320]  That's correct.
[14:21.320 --> 14:29.140]  Now, could you give us sort of a step-by-step, no pun intended, view of how you would use the 2600 hertz tone?
[14:29.280 --> 14:30.100]  You'd get a dial tone.
[14:30.320 --> 14:31.240]  What would you do back then?
[14:31.660 --> 14:31.960]  Okay.
[14:31.960 --> 14:35.340]  I will simulate when I'll dial a step-by-speaking of step-by-step.
[14:35.700 --> 14:45.540]  I will actually dial on the regular phone here a step-by-step exchange in a small town about 100 miles from here.
[14:45.960 --> 14:50.200]  And it'll get a fast busy, and I'll cut the fast busy off strictly by whistling.
[14:50.200 --> 14:52.880]  So you can actually whistle pulses as well.
[14:53.100 --> 14:56.120]  Yeah, like two pulses for two and nine pulses for nine.
[14:56.540 --> 15:06.080]  So, in other words, when the rotary dial had to be transmitted over long-distance circuits, it was transmitted with the on-and-off pulses of 2600 instead of clicks.
[15:06.720 --> 15:12.080]  So 2600 was extremely important to... well, it still is in a lot of cases, but less and less.
[15:12.260 --> 15:13.220]  Hold on just a second.
[15:13.280 --> 15:14.080]  I'll be right back.
[15:15.340 --> 15:18.200]  Speaking with Joy Bubbles, formerly known as High-Rise Joe.
[15:18.400 --> 15:18.560]  Okay.
[15:18.660 --> 15:23.120]  Now I've got the reorder getting ready to go through.
[15:23.320 --> 15:23.760]  I'm sorry.
[15:24.040 --> 15:26.120]  Your holding off is completed and dialed.
[15:26.260 --> 15:27.320]  Please check...
[15:28.980 --> 15:32.540]  So I whistle 2600, which cut that recording off.
[15:32.740 --> 15:33.160]  Okay.
[15:33.620 --> 15:36.400]  Now I'll just dial a one just to make things simple.
[15:36.560 --> 15:40.040]  And that's a vacant level in that exchange, so we should get that recording again.
[15:43.480 --> 15:44.500]  We're sorry.
[15:44.740 --> 15:45.800]  Your call can...
[15:47.320 --> 15:47.960]  Please...
[15:47.960 --> 15:48.940]  And dial again.
[15:50.820 --> 15:52.580]  So that cut it back off.
[15:52.760 --> 15:53.400]  Amazing.
[15:53.940 --> 15:57.120]  I should start off with a somewhat interesting story in brief.
[15:57.680 --> 16:09.580]  And that's that on December 6th, 1991, I was awoken at about 11 o'clock in the morning by two men pointing automatic pistols at my head.
[16:10.040 --> 16:11.760]  Claiming to be FBI agents.
[16:12.960 --> 16:15.220]  And they were rather jumpy at that.
[16:15.540 --> 16:25.500]  And once they had secured the fact that I didn't have any weapons on me, I don't know how many people sleep with weapons, but they threw me a pair of jeans and escorted me downstairs.
[16:27.460 --> 16:35.900]  And basically, I was confined to my couch for a period of about three hours while they proceeded to clear me out of all my valuable possessions.
[16:35.900 --> 16:41.040]  And no reason was ever given of why they were there and what I was accused of doing.
[16:53.450 --> 16:57.650]  Well, someone's certainly broken the law in the last couple of months.
[16:57.910 --> 17:03.210]  The Michelangelo virus is spreading wildly all over the place.
[17:03.210 --> 17:13.010]  And on March 6th, which more people know now than ever before, March 6th is Michelangelo's birthday.
[17:13.010 --> 17:14.550]  And wouldn't he be proud?
[17:17.290 --> 17:21.850]  Thank you for calling Michigan Pell's automated CNA Bureau.
[17:22.270 --> 17:25.050]  The system is restricted to authorized personnel only.
[17:25.290 --> 17:29.490]  By using your touchstone telephone, please enter your ID number.
[17:30.310 --> 17:40.330]  I was bothered by the fact that you so sort of nonchalantly mention in the book how one day a hacker will kill someone and not those exact words.
[17:40.790 --> 17:50.970]  And I thought that was a rather dangerous thing to put in a book such as that, especially when you have people reading the book who simply don't know any better and how seriously to take the subject matter of the book.
[17:51.690 --> 17:55.130]  Well, as I recall, that is in the Gail Thackeray section.
[17:55.450 --> 17:56.030]  Right, okay.
[17:56.230 --> 17:57.330]  Well, I was actually...
[17:57.930 --> 17:59.690]  Well, I didn't quote it directly.
[18:00.110 --> 18:05.230]  Those remarks are to be more or less attributed to Ms. Thackeray's point of view.
[18:05.430 --> 18:05.710]  Yeah.
[18:05.930 --> 18:09.090]  Although I don't question that a hacker will in fact someday kill someone.
[18:09.090 --> 18:11.430]  You do think that's going to happen somehow?
[18:11.690 --> 18:13.730]  I don't see how anybody can avoid it.
[18:13.850 --> 18:16.070]  I mean, you know, machines crash.
[18:16.270 --> 18:19.150]  I mean, anybody who reads risks digest, right?
[18:19.350 --> 18:21.850]  I mean, computers have already killed people on many occasions.
[18:22.330 --> 18:22.710]  Mm-hmm.
[18:23.030 --> 18:25.510]  You know, this 911 system going down.
[18:26.070 --> 18:27.970]  You know, somebody in Toronto could have died.
[18:27.970 --> 18:31.290]  I suppose you could claim that it was this rascal's fault one way or the other.
[18:31.690 --> 18:31.970]  Mm-hmm.
[18:32.370 --> 18:32.710]  Well, now...
[18:32.710 --> 18:37.750]  You know, I wouldn't be surprised if people died during the AT&T crash.
[18:37.750 --> 18:47.790]  You know, considering I'm one of the older hackers, uh, phone freaks, I should say, uh, I do want to discourage people from hacking and phone freaking.
[18:48.310 --> 18:49.730]  They're playing for keeps now.
[18:50.230 --> 18:50.810]  Mm-hmm.
[18:50.850 --> 18:52.450]  You mean the government is playing for keeps?
[18:52.650 --> 18:53.050]  Indeed.
[18:53.970 --> 18:54.490]  Everything.
[18:54.790 --> 18:56.490]  Everything is malfunctioning.
[18:56.690 --> 18:58.630]  All around us, everything is malfunctioning.
[18:58.710 --> 18:59.570]  It's, uh...
[18:59.570 --> 19:01.010]  It's truly incredible.
[19:02.110 --> 19:09.270]  Well, we're going to be talking tonight about, um, uh, the, uh, technical aspects of the explosion downtown.
[19:09.570 --> 19:13.110]  Uh, what happened over the airwaves, particularly.
[19:13.550 --> 19:18.590]  How many of you were glued to the TV sets, uh, watching as, uh, things happened?
[19:18.790 --> 19:19.550]  Some things went wrong.
[19:19.750 --> 19:21.190]  Some misinformation was spread out.
[19:21.610 --> 19:31.290]  Uh, also we'll be talking about the telephone system, how that survived and how it didn't survive, what kind of effect, uh, it has on computer systems and other things along those lines.
[19:32.730 --> 19:34.770]  AT&T has been disconnected.
[19:35.290 --> 19:38.890]  No further information is available about AT&T.
[19:39.230 --> 19:41.290]  Please check the number and dial again.
[19:41.550 --> 19:43.610]  Thank you for using NCI.
[19:43.810 --> 19:46.890]  Well, Mike, let me ask you a question which I'm sure is on the minds of some people.
[19:47.270 --> 19:49.510]  Um, what do you do about criminals?
[19:49.650 --> 19:53.450]  How do you wiretap those people that, uh, that should be wiretapped?
[19:53.710 --> 19:54.130]  The terrorists?
[19:54.190 --> 20:07.950]  Well, let me point out, by the way, that criminals who are smart enough to use encryption, uh, ought to be smart enough to know not to use a clipper chip because that is the one form of encryption that the government is guaranteed to have the keys to.
[20:08.630 --> 20:15.230]  Uh, and when you ask the government about this, they say, well, we recognize that we're only going to, uh, capture stupid criminals.
[20:15.710 --> 20:21.410]  And I keep thinking, well, you know, if you're only going to capture stupid criminals, you know, you can capture stupid criminals now.
[20:22.170 --> 20:24.150]  That's not a particularly deep problem.
[20:24.150 --> 20:32.990]  Now, as far as, um, as far as various things that have happened in the hacker world, uh, we've, uh, brought you various, uh, things in the past.
[20:34.190 --> 20:37.070]  Indictments, trials, prison terms, things like that.
[20:37.250 --> 20:45.270]  We've also brought you happier occasions from foreign lands, such as the Galactic Hacker Party and, uh, Hackers at the End of the Universe and various things like that.
[20:45.850 --> 20:52.890]  But, you know, the happy times have never really come to us here in this particular town.
[20:53.470 --> 20:54.890]  That's going to change.
[20:55.450 --> 21:02.110]  This summer, there's going to be a, uh, I guess you'd call it a celebration of the hacker world.
[21:02.350 --> 21:13.830]  It'll be the, uh, the 10th anniversary of 2600 Magazine and a coming together of minds from, uh, both the United States and various countries in Europe, Asia, all over the world.
[21:14.090 --> 21:21.370]  And we're going to have the very first, very first American hacker conference of this sort.
[21:21.530 --> 21:26.490]  There are many hacker conferences such as SummerCon, HoHoCon, DefCon, various things like that.
[21:26.570 --> 21:27.790]  But this is going to be different.
[21:27.910 --> 21:31.030]  This is going to be, uh, something right smack in the middle of New York City.
[21:31.550 --> 21:35.330]  And, uh, we will have a network set up similar to what we have here.
[21:35.430 --> 21:41.190]  We're going to have, um, speakers coming in from all around speaking on various topics.
[21:41.630 --> 21:44.630]  And it will be taking place August 13th and 14th.
[21:44.730 --> 21:46.810]  We're calling it Hackers on Planet Earth.
[21:54.540 --> 22:00.620]  Yes, we're into day 22 of the quest for ISDN.
[22:18.620 --> 22:22.240]  Now, if you recall, we started this, um, almost a month ago.
[22:22.500 --> 22:23.780]  Well, 22 days ago, I guess.
[22:24.540 --> 22:29.960]  FiberOptik and myself decided to, to go out and get us an ISDN line.
[22:30.080 --> 22:31.300]  Actually, two ISDN lines.
[22:31.640 --> 22:35.400]  Um, for the benefit of people that might just be tuning in for the first time.
[22:35.740 --> 22:36.560]  ISDN line, Fiber.
[22:37.280 --> 22:37.820]  ISDN line.
[22:37.900 --> 22:38.640]  Yeah, what's so great about it?
[22:38.700 --> 22:40.300]  Why do we need one of these things?
[22:40.320 --> 22:41.860]  Because we want more bandwidth.
[22:42.080 --> 22:42.260]  Mm-hmm.
[22:42.620 --> 22:43.860]  We can do more than one thing at a time.
[22:44.080 --> 22:44.860]  Sure, exactly.
[22:45.080 --> 22:45.160]  Okay.
[22:45.160 --> 22:48.040]  We want to be able to connect to multiple things at once.
[22:48.040 --> 22:51.740]  We want to do voice and data and video all at the same time.
[22:51.860 --> 22:54.180]  Right, and that's what the, uh, what the 90s is supposed to be all about.
[22:54.260 --> 22:56.080]  That's what the future of technology is supposed to be all about.
[22:57.180 --> 22:58.640]  Hang on, let's see if this is Bernie S.
[22:59.280 --> 23:00.420]  This is Locktel.
[23:04.640 --> 23:07.600]  To accept the call, please dial 9 now.
[23:07.700 --> 23:11.100]  If you do not want to accept this call, hang up now.
[23:11.180 --> 23:12.020]  Can you hit a 9, Fiber?
[23:12.260 --> 23:12.580]  Sure.
[23:16.200 --> 23:17.180]  Please go ahead.
[23:17.360 --> 23:18.620]  You are now connected.
[23:19.720 --> 23:20.900]  Bernie S., are you there?
[23:21.140 --> 23:21.840]  Hello, Emmanuel.
[23:22.080 --> 23:23.540]  Okay, we got Fiber on the line too.
[23:24.720 --> 23:31.440]  I just got back from overseas and I was talking about the various cameras and things that they have over there.
[23:32.380 --> 23:35.860]  I'll get back to that story in a minute, but I want to update people with you.
[23:35.860 --> 23:37.520]  They have a lot of cameras over here too.
[23:38.200 --> 23:39.580]  Well, you're in a federal prison.
[23:40.320 --> 23:42.260]  That's the whole country over there.
[23:42.520 --> 23:46.720]  You know, they have speed cameras that take your picture as you speed.
[23:47.040 --> 23:50.340]  They have cameras that are hidden in light fixtures.
[23:50.880 --> 23:54.120]  You know, street lights have cameras in them so you can't see them.
[23:54.360 --> 23:56.400]  They have cameras hidden in birdhouses here.
[23:56.580 --> 23:57.560]  Well, yeah, I know about that.
[23:57.880 --> 24:02.340]  Well, now, update us on what's going on with you because I've been out of touch for a few weeks myself.
[24:02.620 --> 24:06.620]  So, I've been in prison now for close to four months now.
[24:06.820 --> 24:27.140]  My trial date is set for July 31st and for people who haven't heard about this story before, the two charges, federal charges against me, which are both felonies, are possession of hardware or software for the modification of telecommunications instruments for the unauthorized use of telecommunications services,
[24:27.280 --> 24:41.560]  which in plain English means I have had a computer program on a laptop computer that allows, allegedly allows someone to program a cellular telephone to change its telephone number and its serial number.
[24:41.880 --> 24:47.260]  The other thing I'm charged with is possessing a modified touchtone dialer.
[24:47.380 --> 24:55.540]  The government is not alleging that I did anything with either of these things, a dialer or a program.
[24:55.540 --> 25:06.960]  They're just alleging that I possess them and that's enough to coordinate the federal government to warrant a maximum 15-year prison term on each count.
[25:07.320 --> 25:09.080]  Do you think the first call will be Rebel again?
[25:09.280 --> 25:10.240]  I hope not.
[25:10.640 --> 25:13.340]  It probably will be because he always manages to be the first call.
[25:13.460 --> 25:15.420]  So let's see if he's going to be the first call this time.
[25:15.660 --> 25:16.220]  Good evening.
[25:16.360 --> 25:16.800]  You're on the air.
[25:17.900 --> 25:19.300]  Oh, imaginable.
[25:19.380 --> 25:20.080]  I don't believe it.
[25:20.080 --> 25:21.040]  How does he do it?
[25:21.220 --> 25:22.380]  How do you do this?
[25:22.520 --> 25:29.600]  For one thing, the central office times out after a certain amount of time so you would have to have been hung up on if you were calling all this time.
[25:29.760 --> 25:30.420]  I don't know how you do it.
[25:30.740 --> 25:31.480]  No, I'm just kidding.
[25:31.480 --> 25:32.080]  I don't understand.
[25:32.300 --> 25:35.540]  I think he's like sitting out in the hallway somehow and he's just taking over the phone line.
[25:36.180 --> 25:40.240]  Well, I'm going to give out my new email address.
[25:40.540 --> 25:43.020]  You're going to give out your email address over the radio.
[25:43.240 --> 25:45.000]  But while people are getting their pens and papers out.
[25:45.680 --> 25:49.720]  Yeah, I'm sure there's a mad rush to stationary stores right now for people that want your address.
[25:49.720 --> 25:53.160]  There's one other thing to say going back to PGP phone.
[25:53.700 --> 25:57.180]  That is that there is going to be an internet function added to that.
[25:57.460 --> 26:12.340]  It seems like that iPhone and some other products that have come out that allow voice-to-voice communications through the internet, that too will be able to be fully encrypted and thereby completely safe from prying ears, eyes, and sniffers.
[26:12.340 --> 26:14.880]  I saw an advertisement on television today.
[26:14.960 --> 26:17.500]  I didn't get a chance to write down the number, but it was something called DigiPhone.
[26:17.900 --> 26:23.140]  And their slogan was never pay long-distance rates again.
[26:23.540 --> 26:26.680]  Flat rate anywhere in the country as long as you want.
[26:27.180 --> 26:31.120]  Yeah, I'll tell you, I think long distance as an industry is dead.
[26:31.300 --> 26:31.580]  Yeah.
[26:31.820 --> 26:38.220]  I think we're seeing a lot of indications of that with things like iPhone and with things like the new 9x rate structure.
[26:38.560 --> 26:41.060]  I think a lot of things are changing.
[26:43.260 --> 26:44.440]  going to get an update on this.
[26:44.440 --> 26:44.780]  Ready to check.
[26:45.240 --> 26:45.720]  Yeah, hi.
[26:45.860 --> 26:46.940]  You got DVDs.
[26:47.740 --> 26:48.240]  Excuse me?
[26:48.380 --> 26:49.560]  You got DVDs.
[26:50.160 --> 26:50.520]  DVDs?
[26:50.600 --> 26:50.740]  Yeah.
[26:50.960 --> 26:51.280]  For what?
[26:52.960 --> 26:57.440]  Well, either for my video recorder or for my CD player or for my computer actually.
[26:57.820 --> 26:58.180]  DVDs?
[26:58.240 --> 26:58.400]  Yeah.
[27:04.420 --> 27:05.000]  Radio check.
[27:06.660 --> 27:07.380]  Who else?
[27:07.740 --> 27:08.260]  What is it?
[27:08.300 --> 27:08.560]  Cable?
[27:08.640 --> 27:09.260]  What is it in the system?
[27:10.000 --> 27:11.440]  Well, it's the standard.
[27:11.740 --> 27:14.460]  It's, you know, that's how you watch videos and things?
[27:15.080 --> 27:15.420]  DVD?
[27:15.720 --> 27:17.180]  Yeah, digital versatile discs.
[27:17.560 --> 27:17.960]  Uh, no.
[27:18.400 --> 27:19.660]  You don't, you don't want to be having them?
[27:20.000 --> 27:20.980]  No, we don't have that.
[27:21.440 --> 27:22.940]  Will you be getting it soon?
[27:23.200 --> 27:23.560]  No.
[27:23.820 --> 27:24.080]  You won't.
[27:24.160 --> 27:24.820]  Okay, thank you very much.
[27:24.840 --> 27:25.380]  You're quite welcome.
[27:25.720 --> 27:25.960]  All right.
[27:26.740 --> 27:30.520]  Radio check there will not be getting DVDs anytime soon according to that spokesperson.
[27:31.420 --> 27:32.840]  And a very good evening to everybody.
[27:32.900 --> 27:42.880]  This is Off the Hook and we're broadcasting live over the radio and over the internet.
[27:44.320 --> 27:46.220]  Hello to all you people all around the world.
[27:49.940 --> 27:58.320]  You know, I only hope the day is right around the corner where you can listen to WBAI around the clock on the internet because it's happening all over the place.
[27:58.520 --> 28:00.520]  There's radio stations on the net now around the clock.
[28:01.780 --> 28:03.960]  And if we can work it out here, we're certainly going to do
[28:13.280 --> 28:14.120]  all the time.
[28:14.520 --> 28:20.340]  Well, this is an interesting edition of Off the Hook because we'll be getting phone calls hopefully from all different parts of the country as well.
[28:20.800 --> 28:22.620]  And New York City...
[28:22.620 --> 28:24.840]  Should I take the first one or pick a number?
[28:25.500 --> 28:26.920]  I'm afraid you know what's going to happen.
[28:27.080 --> 28:27.480]  The fourth one.
[28:27.860 --> 28:29.280]  That's what we did last time.
[28:29.460 --> 28:29.600]  Is it?
[28:29.740 --> 28:29.920]  Yeah.
[28:30.980 --> 28:31.380]  Two.
[28:32.000 --> 28:32.400]  Two.
[28:33.860 --> 28:34.260]  Two?
[28:34.400 --> 28:34.800]  You want two?
[28:35.020 --> 28:35.560]  Sure, two.
[28:35.760 --> 28:36.240]  All right, two.
[28:37.820 --> 28:39.580]  Good evening, you're on the air.
[28:39.880 --> 28:40.840]  Good evening, Emmanuel.
[28:40.840 --> 28:43.100]  This is Stephen and I'm calling from London, England.
[28:43.380 --> 28:44.040]  Oh my God!
[28:45.040 --> 28:45.400]  Overseas!
[28:45.440 --> 28:46.520]  You're listening to us now, huh?
[28:46.660 --> 28:47.320]  That's right, yeah.
[28:47.400 --> 28:48.640]  Wow, this is cool.
[28:48.800 --> 28:49.520]  This is really cool.
[28:49.620 --> 28:52.360]  We've finally gotten over that big body of water there.
[28:52.480 --> 28:52.680]  Yeah.
[28:53.000 --> 28:53.720]  Yeah, finally.
[28:57.200 --> 29:00.880]  And again, that phone number is 212-209-2900.
[29:00.900 --> 29:03.700]  You're listening to Off the Hook, Emmanuel over here, Phil over there.
[29:05.100 --> 29:07.860]  And the things that come next are going to be rather interesting too.
[29:08.040 --> 29:10.340]  We're going to be voyaging throughout the land.
[29:10.500 --> 29:15.800]  In fact, there's a piece about this on our website if you know of an interesting place that we should stop in.
[29:15.940 --> 29:26.760]  We're making a little documentary of our own about what's happening with this whole Kevin thing, with the film, with the movement to get him out of prison once and for all, the overall mood about hackers in general.
[29:26.960 --> 29:27.740]  It's about Lennox, Drake.
[29:27.960 --> 29:28.980]  Have you heard about that out there?
[29:29.240 --> 29:31.260]  You know, I saw bits and pieces of it.
[29:31.360 --> 29:33.020]  It's kind of hard when you're traveling cross country.
[29:33.160 --> 29:35.280]  Sometimes you don't know what's going on.
[29:35.560 --> 29:39.660]  You turn on the radio and you hear various bits and pieces of the news.
[29:40.400 --> 29:43.420]  So the Bell Atlantic strike, actually, that's not a big major story.
[29:43.600 --> 29:47.300]  Things like embassy bombings and stained dresses make for bigger news headlines.
[29:47.980 --> 29:50.640]  But the Bell Atlantic thing is something that I just happened to see.
[29:50.800 --> 29:54.640]  You know how they have that little ticker thing on CNN headline news?
[29:54.820 --> 29:58.120]  I just happened to look at that at the right moment and I saw Bell Atlantic is on strike.
[29:58.540 --> 30:00.000]  Oh boy, that's just great.
[30:00.840 --> 30:04.060]  So no, I didn't know they were on the verge of going on strike.
[30:04.360 --> 30:06.180]  So it came as a big surprise to me.
[30:06.440 --> 30:16.120]  Yeah, what had happened was the workers got together of course, that's what happens when you're in a union, and they decided to go on strike and it's already over, believe it or not, it's over today.
[30:16.700 --> 30:17.900]  Those express strikes.
[30:18.740 --> 30:20.660]  Y2K, where people are...
[30:20.660 --> 30:22.880]  Y2K is in two years, that didn't happen this year.
[30:23.020 --> 30:41.100]  Well, it's going to happen in two years, but 1998 has really been one of the high points of people becoming aware of the fact, whether it's for the better, I really couldn't tell you, but people are starting to wake up to what a lot of engineers have known for some time.
[31:05.620 --> 31:14.860]  But just notice the increasing intensity of our pleas to remain calm as the year goes by and how things just sort of fell apart in the end.
[31:15.660 --> 31:17.760]  I haven't pirated any DVD movies.
[31:17.760 --> 31:20.220]  I don't send my friends the five gig or so movies.
[31:20.380 --> 31:21.040]  I mean, think about it.
[31:21.140 --> 31:21.620]  It's ludicrous.
[31:21.740 --> 31:27.600]  Who in God's name would send a five gigabyte file to a friend just so they don't pay three dollars to Blockbuster to rent it?
[31:27.820 --> 31:28.480]  It's nuts.
[31:28.640 --> 31:29.560]  It's a total waste of time.
[31:31.000 --> 31:36.640]  DCSS has allowed myself to actually watch the four DVDs that I paid 25 bucks a pop for.
[31:36.880 --> 31:40.560]  Now I can watch Austin Powers on my computer, which I'm very thankful for.
[31:41.240 --> 31:43.720]  If anything, these people shouldn't be pressing charges.
[31:43.720 --> 31:50.440]  You should because you have helped us legal people who don't have the money for 750 megahertz athlon computers with a gig of RAM.
[31:50.800 --> 31:52.180]  All I have to say is thanks a million.
[31:52.240 --> 31:53.360]  I hope you get the charges dropped.
[31:53.480 --> 31:54.500]  We've gotten a lot of letters like this.
[31:54.580 --> 32:00.400]  A lot of people who realize why we posted the files, that it's got nothing to do with pirating films.
[32:00.640 --> 32:03.680]  Unfortunately, these people who are after us don't seem to realize that.
[32:03.820 --> 32:04.180]  So what's the latest?
[32:04.220 --> 32:04.380]  Yes.
[32:04.540 --> 32:06.820]  The response has been really overwhelming.
[32:07.120 --> 32:22.560]  I know we put out a request for people to mirror the source code and the executables for DECSS and we've gotten well over 100 responses just after asking for it.
[32:22.720 --> 32:24.380]  We've gotten so many we had to stop putting them up.
[32:24.540 --> 32:25.500]  It got to be such a pain.
[32:25.900 --> 32:36.580]  Well, somebody who certainly knows something about the difference between criminals and hackers is someone we've been talking about for many, many years here on this program.
[32:37.720 --> 32:41.600]  He's the center of the whole Free Kevin movement.
[32:42.100 --> 32:44.000]  And of course, that would be Kevin Mitnick himself.
[32:44.160 --> 32:44.700]  Kevin, are you there?
[32:45.200 --> 32:45.720]  I'm here.
[32:46.000 --> 32:46.700]  How are you doing?
[32:47.200 --> 32:49.280]  Doing a lot better than I was a few weeks ago.
[32:49.280 --> 32:52.820]  We have a new telephone company.
[32:53.080 --> 32:55.560]  Or actually, just a new name.
[32:56.460 --> 32:58.280]  A new name of a new company.
[32:58.900 --> 33:05.720]  So that we can prepare to hate this company and do all kinds of mean, nasty, horrible things.
[33:07.840 --> 33:09.160]  Yeah, you're never going to guess.
[33:09.420 --> 33:12.060]  The new company is called Verizon.
[33:13.560 --> 33:14.600]  Stupid name, huh?
[33:14.700 --> 33:15.220]  Verizon.
[33:16.260 --> 33:17.720]  Bet you don't even know how to spell it.
[33:19.660 --> 33:22.860]  Verizon is spelled V-E-R-I-Z-O-N.
[33:22.940 --> 33:25.060]  And I guarantee you, you will know that name.
[33:25.160 --> 33:28.620]  You might know that name today, but you will know that name in the next...
[33:29.340 --> 33:31.400]  I'd say in the next month you're going to know that name.
[33:31.520 --> 33:38.300]  And certainly in the next year, you will have cursed out that name at least a dozen times.
[33:38.580 --> 33:39.200]  At least.
[33:40.220 --> 33:48.100]  The word Verizon, pronounced the way I'm saying it, according to them, was selected from more than 100 names.
[33:48.520 --> 33:52.700]  The new name comes from the Latin word Veritas, which means truth.
[33:55.740 --> 33:58.580]  Oh, boy, they're going to attach truth to the name of a phone company.
[33:58.580 --> 33:59.280]  That's a first.
[33:59.280 --> 34:02.700]  this function is void.
[34:03.140 --> 34:06.360]  It takes two arcs.
[34:06.560 --> 34:16.880]  The first is SEC, a pointer to a vector of 2048 unsigned bytes that are in the encrypted disk sector and will be the decrypted.
[34:17.640 --> 34:24.860]  The second is key, a vector of six unsigned bytes, the decrypted title key.
[34:26.800 --> 34:31.560]  local variables T1 through T6 are unsigned ints.
[34:32.340 --> 34:37.140]  Local variable end is a pointer to SEC plus 2048.
[34:37.920 --> 34:39.520]  Dude, I've seen this before.
[34:39.720 --> 34:43.480]  I've seen this before at corporate-owned radio stations.
[34:43.480 --> 35:02.940]  You have a family of people that have been working great with each other, maybe it's three months, maybe it's three years, and some guys make some decisions and come in and show everybody the door and there's armed guards there and you're told to grab your stuff and they change the locks and you get out.
[35:03.040 --> 35:03.900]  That's corporate radio.
[35:04.040 --> 35:04.720]  I've seen it happen.
[35:04.880 --> 35:11.020]  I've seen people crying outside the studio or outside the radio station and so then they just kick you out.
[35:11.220 --> 35:22.900]  I've seen this before at corporate stations and this, what's going on here sickens me but it's obviously corporate behavior.
[35:23.160 --> 35:26.420]  It's corporate behavior but this is not a corporate radio station.
[35:26.600 --> 35:29.280]  This is a listener radio station and that's the difference.
[35:29.620 --> 35:39.560]  To see this kind of corporate thing going on at a listener-run station is something that I think is mind-boggling.
[35:39.660 --> 35:43.380]  It's something that we simply can't just stand by and watch.
[35:43.460 --> 35:51.980]  And the listeners of the station are the shareholders in this company, if you will, and they should do what they can to overthrow the president.
[35:53.120 --> 36:04.920]  As the shareholders, I mean, if we, you know, if everybody that listens to the station and helps out with it, you know, is donating and is part of the radio station, then they have every right to have their voice heard.
[36:05.040 --> 36:07.260]  We have a lot of people that are really rallying.
[36:07.740 --> 36:13.020]  My only concern is whether or not the police are going to give people a chance to leave before they arrest them.
[36:26.300 --> 36:31.400]  I can't tell you how bad it makes me feel.
[36:31.600 --> 36:38.140]  Not that I dislike police, but seeing police in the radio station like this is just something that really makes me very queasy.
[36:38.140 --> 36:41.020]  Well, some of the listeners have left now.
[36:41.360 --> 36:43.860]  Now the chat's getting a little bit more quick.
[36:44.640 --> 36:49.540]  There's probably about just as many police right now, or maybe just a little bit less police than there are listeners.
[36:51.300 --> 37:01.600]  And it's two weeks after, still trying to regain a sense of normalcy, how much we can.
[37:05.190 --> 37:09.370]  But I'm sure our listeners understand how difficult that is.
[37:10.330 --> 37:16.750]  not just because of what's happened, but also because of the proximity to this place, to this radio station.
[37:19.070 --> 37:30.690]  Literally a few hundred feet away, there are still the remains of thousands of people that have not yet been found, and it's just something that I just can't seem to resolve.
[37:32.570 --> 37:39.350]  Well, we have a lot of things to cover tonight, and I don't think any of it is very good.
[37:40.190 --> 37:40.890]  unfortunately.
[37:43.710 --> 37:45.490]  But it's not completely unexpected.
[37:45.490 --> 37:46.430]  It's not something that
[37:50.090 --> 37:52.070]  we didn't see coming.
[37:55.380 --> 38:12.540]  Whenever you have such events of horror and tragedy and fear, you can always bet that there are those on the sidelines who are waiting for the opportunity to use those events to their advantage.
[38:14.680 --> 38:16.160]  And I think we're starting to see that.
[38:17.280 --> 38:25.840]  I did something I seldom do, which is I went banking at a branch that was not where I normally go.
[38:25.920 --> 38:29.480]  I think I've been there over the last 15 years like five times.
[38:29.640 --> 38:31.980]  But I had to run a couple of errands in lower Manhattan.
[38:34.240 --> 38:40.900]  And I got off the R train, still the R at that time, at Cortland Street.
[38:41.140 --> 38:45.820]  And the funny thing is, I had heard a noise when we were going through Rector and I couldn't place it.
[38:45.880 --> 38:48.060]  I figured it was a train on the other track starting.
[38:48.220 --> 38:49.500]  You know how that sometimes happens.
[38:51.800 --> 38:55.500]  And I get out of Cortland Street, just south of the Millennium Hotel.
[38:55.500 --> 38:57.060]  I can't remember what street it is.
[38:57.420 --> 39:01.360]  The exit I got off was across the street.
[39:01.540 --> 39:04.860]  And it's across Church Street from the World Trade Center site.
[39:06.640 --> 39:08.960]  And I get up and I look around.
[39:09.100 --> 39:13.500]  Instead of people walking around, people are pretty much standing still and they're looking up.
[39:13.600 --> 39:15.540]  So, of course, what do you do in that case?
[39:15.560 --> 39:16.100]  You look up.
[39:16.940 --> 39:20.500]  And there's a lot of smoke coming from the top of the North Tower, the World Trade Center.
[39:21.900 --> 39:24.500]  And essentially, I said, holy four-letter word.
[39:26.520 --> 39:27.420]  Stopped for a minute.
[39:28.780 --> 39:30.660]  Walked the block north to get a better view.
[39:32.180 --> 39:33.480]  Asked somebody what happened.
[39:33.520 --> 39:37.840]  Of course, you know, sirens are going off and the fire and police are streaming in.
[39:38.560 --> 39:40.680]  And somebody says, plane just hit.
[39:41.200 --> 39:42.000]  I said, what?
[39:42.740 --> 39:44.000]  Plane just hit the World Trade Center.
[39:44.500 --> 39:46.660]  I said, holy four-letter word once again.
[39:47.760 --> 39:51.300]  I found myself ashamed to be associated with the station and its regular programming.
[39:51.600 --> 39:59.480]  I'd recently had the misfortune of tuning in at various times to hear some of the most vile, vitriolic, anti-American speech I'd ever encountered.
[40:00.940 --> 40:09.240]  It is not so much that the voices from the ether intelligently presented controversial viewpoints, but that they were so adamantly defending the absolutely irrational.
[40:10.480 --> 40:20.790]  This personal situation required resolution, and I've done so by leaving Hi, this is Claire, your virtual service representative.
[40:21.210 --> 40:23.790]  I'm here to help you with your customer service needs.
[40:24.050 --> 40:27.590]  Please speak naturally, and feel free to interrupt me at any time.
[40:27.870 --> 40:30.910]  You can say things like, I have a question about my bill.
[40:31.210 --> 40:32.570]  I need to make a payment.
[40:32.830 --> 40:34.790]  Or, how many minutes have I used?
[40:35.530 --> 40:37.170]  So, what can I help you with?
[40:37.650 --> 40:39.490]  I have a question about my bill.
[40:41.410 --> 40:41.930]  Hello?
[40:41.930 --> 40:43.370]  Billing and payment.
[40:43.690 --> 40:49.350]  If you want to pay now, or get information about your past or future payments, say, Payment information.
[40:50.250 --> 40:50.810]  Payment information.
[40:52.070 --> 40:52.630]  Hello?
[40:52.850 --> 40:53.870]  Payment information.
[40:55.070 --> 40:56.390]  Yeah, that's right, that's right.
[40:56.530 --> 40:56.850]  You got it.
[40:58.190 --> 40:58.670]  Hello?
[41:00.910 --> 41:01.670]  Anyone there?
[41:01.750 --> 41:03.110]  Sorry, I didn't understand.
[41:04.290 --> 41:12.430]  In order to access your account, I need to get the last four digits of the account holder's social security number associated with your PCS account.
[41:12.910 --> 41:16.210]  You can either say the numbers, or enter them using your keypad.
[41:16.430 --> 41:19.330]  And you can always say help if you need more information.
[41:20.750 --> 41:24.570]  So, what are the last four digits of the account holder's social security number?
[41:24.890 --> 41:25.850]  Should I tell her?
[41:26.070 --> 41:29.350]  I guess I can do it with touch tones, and I'll do it like, uh...
[41:29.350 --> 41:30.830]  Wait a minute, I never told them my social security number.
[41:30.910 --> 41:32.050]  Nice try, Sprint!
[41:32.470 --> 41:34.150]  You don't have my social security number.
[41:34.990 --> 41:37.350]  I'm sorry, but I still didn't understand.
[41:37.350 --> 41:43.870]  Well, I'm pacing the streets of Amsterdam, and actually, I'm going to be attempting to get euros live on the air.
[41:44.030 --> 41:47.450]  It's a very dangerous thing, especially at 2 o'clock in the morning, but I am going to try to do it.
[41:47.650 --> 41:47.810]  Hmm.
[41:48.710 --> 41:50.030]  So you've actually seen them now?
[41:50.250 --> 41:54.810]  I've seen them, I've held them, I've bundled them, and they are... they're pretty cool.
[41:54.970 --> 41:55.890]  They really are pretty cool.
[41:56.370 --> 42:00.670]  Many different kinds of coins, many different kinds of actual paper money.
[42:01.370 --> 42:08.710]  And, um, it's been a very interesting day in, I imagine, throughout Europe, but certainly here in Amsterdam, where I try to get used to this.
[42:10.470 --> 42:15.790]  So are people... were you able to, uh, to write, uh, this is money on a piece of paper and, uh, hand it to someone?
[42:15.970 --> 42:17.030]  I guess that wouldn't work.
[42:17.210 --> 42:18.930]  No, that didn't work out as I thought it would.
[42:19.030 --> 42:19.090]  No.
[42:19.090 --> 42:22.870]  I thought it would be a lot easier to fool people into thinking that something was a euro when it wasn't.
[42:22.870 --> 42:29.310]  Uh, but apparently they had distributed pictures of what they would look like, so that didn't really work out all that well.
[42:29.430 --> 42:29.850]  Didn't fly.
[42:30.890 --> 42:34.110]  Yeah, but, um, no, it, it actually went pretty smoothly.
[42:34.450 --> 42:37.170]  Uh, I saw lots of people looking confused.
[42:38.290 --> 42:42.950]  Um, but, uh, they, they, they seem to have, uh, gotten the hang of it rather, rather quickly.
[42:43.230 --> 42:50.550]  I developed the free operating system GNU that most people unfortunately think is Linux and think it was developed by Linus Torvalds.
[42:50.550 --> 42:55.190]  You've also cleared up how to pronounce it, which I get into arguments with people all the time, so the G is pronounced.
[42:55.410 --> 42:56.030]  Yes, of course.
[42:56.230 --> 42:56.650]  You've heard it here.
[42:56.790 --> 43:00.070]  If you called it the new operating system, you'd get people very confused.
[43:00.630 --> 43:05.850]  I started it in 1984, which means it's now 18 years.
[43:06.470 --> 43:08.130]  So it's not so new anymore.
[43:08.430 --> 43:10.130]  But it'll always be GNU.
[43:14.120 --> 43:23.560]  And a good evening to everybody on this, uh, auspicious occasion of, um, it's, it's kind of bizarre how things always seem to happen during our program, but, uh, this is actually it.
[43:23.960 --> 43:29.400]  The, uh, much-hyped countdown to war, well, this is the final hour when our show is over.
[43:30.080 --> 43:32.840]  Could very well be when war officially begins.
[43:33.020 --> 43:36.820]  Might even begin before then, uh, we're monitoring the situation.
[43:37.240 --> 43:47.320]  And, uh, at this point we really have to, um, uh, give you some, um, important information as to just what's going to be happening here at the radio station.
[43:47.880 --> 43:52.100]  Um, obviously, uh, things are about to hit the fan in one way or another.
[43:52.260 --> 43:53.960]  We don't know exactly how things are going to go.
[43:54.440 --> 43:55.120]  Nobody does.
[43:55.540 --> 44:09.980]  Um, but one thing that is vital, uh, to this community, to, uh, uh, the New York area, to, uh, to all the people who are listening to us on the internet, it's important for us to have a voice, uh, to be able to, um, uh, to broadcast whatever information we're able to obtain,
[44:10.220 --> 44:13.120]  uh, whatever news is not being broadcast by the mainstream media.
[44:13.780 --> 44:29.420]  And, uh, that's why, uh, for the foreseeable future, at least, the main focus of this program, as well as many others on this radio station, is going to be the military action that is taking place, how that affects us back here at home, how that affects people over there.
[44:29.420 --> 44:37.040]  And we're just going to try and, um, and shed our, uh, particular unique light on events as they unfold.
[44:37.520 --> 44:39.180]  There are things we know that we know.
[44:39.420 --> 44:39.940]  That's right.
[44:40.280 --> 44:41.660]  Donald Rumsfeld actually said that, didn't he?
[44:41.720 --> 44:42.420]  What was the full quote?
[44:42.820 --> 44:44.660]  There are things we know that we know.
[44:44.860 --> 44:47.620]  There are things we know that we don't know.
[44:47.900 --> 44:50.760]  But there are things we don't know that we don't know.
[44:51.020 --> 44:55.920]  And every year, we find out a few more of those unknown unknowns.
[44:56.680 --> 44:59.020]  Do you think he was, like, throwing down the gauntlet to George W.
[44:59.120 --> 45:01.680]  Bush, saying, you know, can you say this without stumbling through it?
[45:02.740 --> 45:04.360]  I mean, it sounds like something George W.
[45:04.500 --> 45:07.300]  Bush would say, but I think if you analyze it, it actually makes sense.
[45:07.580 --> 45:11.880]  I was going to say, the scariest thing about it is, if you think about it, it does make sense.
[45:12.060 --> 45:15.040]  Yeah, and, you know, Rumsfeld is the guy to be scared of.
[45:15.340 --> 45:16.060]  He really is.
[45:16.160 --> 45:17.060]  Well, Ashcroft, too.
[45:17.340 --> 45:20.120]  There's a number of people in that part of the world.
[45:20.240 --> 45:21.320]  I'm not scared of Tom Ridge.
[45:21.420 --> 45:22.100]  I don't know if you are.
[45:22.240 --> 45:23.060]  He doesn't scare me.
[45:23.080 --> 45:23.700]  He makes me laugh.
[45:23.700 --> 45:39.540]  I'm in the middle of a camp field with hundreds, if not thousands, of computer hackers who are busy setting up for the Chaos Communications camp, which starts in just a few hours on Thursday and runs until Sunday.
[45:39.540 --> 45:48.620]  I have to say, if you have not yet made up your mind to come to this, it's probably getting to be too late for you to actually make it over and be part of this.
[45:48.740 --> 45:49.560]  What's the company's name?
[45:50.480 --> 45:50.820]  Diebold.
[45:50.940 --> 45:51.200]  Diebold?
[45:51.380 --> 45:52.160]  Or Diebold.
[45:52.220 --> 45:52.620]  Which is it?
[45:52.620 --> 45:53.960]  I think it's Diebold.
[45:54.080 --> 45:54.800]  I'm going to settle this.
[45:54.920 --> 45:55.840]  I'm going to settle this right now.
[45:56.060 --> 45:57.180]  I have their phone number.
[45:57.400 --> 45:59.720]  I looked it up before I came in here, because I knew this issue was going to come up.
[46:00.320 --> 46:01.800]  And, uh, Bernie, are you still there?
[46:02.180 --> 46:02.720]  I'm here.
[46:02.820 --> 46:05.020]  Okay, don't panic when you hear a dial tone, all right?
[46:05.280 --> 46:05.660]  All right.
[46:05.720 --> 46:06.560]  You said Diebold, too.
[46:06.640 --> 46:08.040]  I'm saying Diebold, because...
[46:08.720 --> 46:09.320]  I don't know.
[46:09.580 --> 46:10.360]  I took German.
[46:10.480 --> 46:14.880]  It's a German name, and usually the second vowel is the one that's pronounced.
[46:15.180 --> 46:17.620]  I have not called this number before, by the way, so...
[46:18.400 --> 46:19.620]  Whatever this person says...
[46:20.140 --> 46:21.300]  I'll bet a buck on Diebold.
[46:21.300 --> 46:21.340]  Diebold.
[46:21.440 --> 46:22.260]  Let's, let's, let's agree.
[46:24.920 --> 46:29.460]  Hi, you've reached Diebold Incorporated at 1-800-99-3600.
[46:29.740 --> 46:30.560]  Hello, you're on the air.
[46:32.320 --> 46:32.740]  Hello?
[46:33.300 --> 46:33.940]  Hey, guys.
[46:34.180 --> 46:34.460]  Hi.
[46:35.120 --> 46:36.380]  Greetings from, uh, Iraq.
[46:36.900 --> 46:37.320]  Wow.
[46:37.440 --> 46:38.780]  Hey, it's our Iraqi caller.
[46:39.120 --> 46:39.520]  Well, uh...
[46:39.520 --> 46:39.680]  Will.
[46:39.860 --> 46:40.300]  Hello, Will.
[46:42.020 --> 46:42.440]  Good.
[46:42.480 --> 46:43.300]  How's it going, guys?
[46:43.980 --> 46:45.110]  You seem to have a...
[46:47.970 --> 46:48.610]  Hang on.
[46:48.730 --> 46:58.110]  If we're talking to Iraq, and we're in Europe, and Bernie's on a bus, and, uh, you know, heading to an airport, we're all going to have to sort of, uh, uh, give each other time to, to deal with satellites and things like that.
[46:58.110 --> 47:01.270]  So let's let our caller from Iraq, uh, say the first words here.
[47:01.350 --> 47:02.870]  I got my voice over IP.
[47:06.490 --> 47:06.670]  Okay.
[47:06.670 --> 47:07.890]  All right, that didn't work out too well.
[47:09.150 --> 47:10.090]  Bernie, you want to try?
[47:10.630 --> 47:17.590]  Well, I was just going to say that, uh, I've been corresponding with Will and, uh, boarding his messages to the OTH at 2600.com.
[47:17.590 --> 47:24.530]  And he's using a service called Packet 8, so he can, uh, he can call in, uh, you know, virtually for free from Iraq.
[47:24.530 --> 47:26.810]  Can you, can you talk a little bit about that, Will?
[47:26.990 --> 47:32.010]  Uh, we noticed there's a, uh, a strong latency, but your audio quality sounds very good from Iraq.
[47:34.270 --> 47:38.950]  Audio quality of the voice over IP box out here on this Packet 8 is actually pretty good.
[47:39.250 --> 47:48.050]  Um, we ended up getting this because we found out that the, uh, government was going to be cutting off, uh, a certain DSN access from us, and when being able to call back the states and make morale calls.
[47:48.370 --> 47:53.150]  But for some reason, um, we can attach these boxes to the network and they're not blocking those at all.
[47:54.330 --> 47:56.570]  So, that's pretty much a popular thing right now.
[47:56.650 --> 48:03.070]  A lot of my, uh, co-workers out here are getting these Packet 8 boxes and jacking them into the network, and it seems to be on where we can actually call them.
[48:03.790 --> 48:04.810]  Bernie, are you with us?
[48:06.070 --> 48:10.630]  Yes, I'm on an, on the island, on an island off the coast of Cambodia right now.
[48:11.650 --> 48:12.810]  Okay, you sound pretty good.
[48:13.390 --> 48:17.910]  Um, so, tell us, uh, what you've experienced in the week that, uh, that you've been over there.
[48:18.750 --> 48:22.170]  It's been a pretty bizarre and adventurous week here in Thailand.
[48:22.910 --> 48:31.670]  Um, there's been some, uh, odd events, uh, related to the, uh, tsunami disaster.
[48:32.490 --> 48:40.930]  Um, off, uh, near the island of Phuket, where I was going to be right now, but, uh, for obvious reasons, it's not a good idea for me to go there.
[48:40.930 --> 48:48.710]  Um, there's this weird, uh, uh, uh, dispute over the use of technology.
[48:49.450 --> 49:01.590]  Uh, the country is, uh, uh, uh, implanting, uh, RFID microchips into the heads of, uh, all the non-Asian bodies that are being recovered.
[49:01.590 --> 49:19.810]  Uh, approximately 1,000 bodies have, uh, been implanted, uh, their heads have been implanted with these, uh, RFID microchips, uh, encoded with the information like, uh, uh, where the body was found, um, the date and time it was found, um, any identifying marks like tattoos,
[49:20.090 --> 49:24.730]  scars, that sort of thing, because those things might not last if, uh, if the flesh starts rotting.
[49:24.730 --> 49:40.610]  I'm sorry for this sentence rather bleak, but, uh, the, the controversy is not just that, but, uh, the, uh, the non-Asian bodies, presumably, presumably ties, um, are not being, uh, not being refrigerated.
[49:40.610 --> 49:56.150]  So just the, apparently the government is just, just refrigerating the tourist bodies, or apparently tourist bodies, uh, and burying the, the, the ties of the locals in, uh, you know, quickly without, uh, any identifying information, um, in some cases in mass graves.
[49:56.570 --> 49:59.510]  So it's just really bizarre use of RFID technology.
[49:59.970 --> 50:00.830]  This is Emmanuel.
[50:00.830 --> 50:02.570]  I'm out here on a freighter.
[50:02.870 --> 50:08.150]  Uh, still the same freighter I was on last week, uh, at this time, except now it's not this time anymore.
[50:08.150 --> 50:12.750]  It's 2 o'clock in the afternoon for me, because we've been making steady, uh, eastward progress.
[50:13.050 --> 50:16.730]  And we're about 1,000 miles off the coast of California right now.
[50:16.890 --> 50:19.650]  We're expected to arrive sometime on Friday.
[50:19.910 --> 50:27.010]  And it's been an amazing, uh, experience being on this thing for the past seven days with another, uh, coast to go.
[50:27.730 --> 50:32.290]  Um, you just become part of this little community that's in the middle of, of the ocean.
[50:33.050 --> 50:37.890]  Uh, it's like a, a little mini apartment building that you kind of go upstairs and downstairs.
[50:38.450 --> 50:40.630]  And, uh, and see various familiar faces.
[50:41.430 --> 50:51.670]  And, uh, kind of forget about the fact that you've got 350, 18-wheel-sized, uh, uh, pieces of, uh, cargo.
[50:52.650 --> 50:55.710]  I don't know what's in these, but, uh, we've all seen them.
[50:55.790 --> 51:00.750]  They, they go on the back of, uh, 18-wheel trucks, or they get stacked up, uh, by the shoreline.
[51:01.350 --> 51:03.450]  And, um, these cargo ships are everywhere.
[51:03.710 --> 51:10.290]  And I just happened to find one of them that will give me a ride from California as one of the...
[51:14.860 --> 51:15.820]  Sounds fascinating.
[51:18.020 --> 51:21.560]  So I think we have our special guest on the line with us.
[51:21.740 --> 51:23.020]  Uh, is this Christian?
[51:24.240 --> 51:25.000]  Yes, hello.
[51:25.260 --> 51:25.580]  Hello.
[51:25.860 --> 51:26.880]  Where are you, Christian?
[51:32.620 --> 51:39.840]  The Black Box, uh, which is the only indoor spot to, uh, sit there and have a cigarette and a drink at the South Pole.
[51:40.100 --> 51:40.860]  The South Pole.
[51:41.100 --> 51:47.840]  And in addition, we're coming to you tonight for the first time over a, uh, a rather different kind of technology, something known as Skype.
[51:48.060 --> 51:49.660]  We're talking to you completely through the Internet.
[51:50.380 --> 51:55.280]  Um, and we have the ability, uh, through Skype, of conferencing in all kinds of people.
[51:55.280 --> 52:04.880]  Right now, I'm, uh, sitting in, uh, in a building in Amsterdam, but I'm going to be able to call other people as well and bring them into the conversation.
[52:05.600 --> 52:08.800]  Um, I should also point out that we're coming to you on a phone line.
[52:09.280 --> 52:11.640]  Uh, Skype has the ability of using a computer.
[52:11.860 --> 52:13.820]  I'm holding a microphone right now, and I'm not talking on a telephone.
[52:14.160 --> 52:18.420]  Uh, and that microphone is plugged into my computer, and I'm talking to you over the Internet.
[52:18.900 --> 52:26.740]  Now, what we could also do is we could have the program set up in the radio station as well, and that would be completely free.
[52:26.860 --> 52:29.780]  It would not cost even the three cents a minute that I'm paying right now.
[52:30.320 --> 52:37.120]  Uh, and it would sound as if, almost as if I was right there, uh, on, uh, in the studio or in a different studio.
[52:37.120 --> 52:39.160]  So it's, uh, it's really kind of cool.
[52:40.800 --> 52:41.460]  It's ringing.
[52:48.500 --> 52:48.940]  Hello?
[52:49.940 --> 52:51.080]  Hey, I hear myself.
[52:51.460 --> 52:52.440]  That's pretty good.
[52:53.080 --> 52:54.860]  Uh, Bernie, obviously you can't hear us.
[52:55.100 --> 52:56.780]  Uh, I'm going to, uh, I'm going to say a sentence now.
[52:56.780 --> 53:01.680]  This is my voice over Skype as compared to, uh, uh, Sprint PCS.
[53:02.140 --> 53:05.500]  And, uh, I'm imagining that it sounds much more clear.
[53:06.000 --> 53:09.420]  Yeah, so obviously I was able to make the connection.
[53:09.640 --> 53:11.940]  I'm talking on my cell phone now, sitting right next to you.
[53:12.220 --> 53:13.420]  And I sound crazy.
[53:14.260 --> 53:19.540]  Um, it's kind of hard to have a conversation back and forth because you hear me next to you.
[53:19.680 --> 53:22.480]  You always sound crazy, but this makes you sound even more crazy, yes.
[53:23.000 --> 53:24.380]  It's like, it's very interesting.
[53:24.380 --> 53:25.080]  It works very well.
[53:25.760 --> 53:25.940]  Hello?
[53:27.040 --> 53:27.440]  Hello?
[53:28.740 --> 53:29.580]  Is this Emmanuel?
[53:29.940 --> 53:31.580]  Yes, who's, who's just speaking, please?
[53:31.760 --> 53:32.440]  This is Rad Bird.
[53:33.180 --> 53:35.660]  I'm joined here in the studio with all of your friends.
[53:36.480 --> 53:37.300]  Oh, good gravy.
[53:37.400 --> 53:38.260]  Is it that time already?
[53:38.460 --> 53:40.400]  It's, uh, Wednesday night at 7 o'clock.
[53:40.840 --> 53:43.860]  My goodness, you know, where I am, it's also Wednesday night at 7 o'clock.
[53:44.300 --> 53:46.900]  Can you clue us in as to what your location is?
[53:47.800 --> 53:48.520]  Uh, yes.
[53:48.680 --> 53:51.800]  I am speaking to you from the city of Havana in Cuba.
[53:52.220 --> 53:53.420]  Oh, very exciting.
[53:53.780 --> 53:54.740]  Now, what are you doing?
[53:55.000 --> 53:58.140]  I detect a, a note of shock in your voice at hearing me say that.
[53:58.340 --> 54:00.060]  You, you finally defected, huh?
[54:00.420 --> 54:03.860]  I don't think anyone here has defined what that, that, that, that, that neutrality is.
[54:04.300 --> 54:05.520]  It's not a big truck.
[54:05.780 --> 54:07.260]  It's a series of jokes.
[54:09.860 --> 54:10.260]  Hello?
[54:11.300 --> 54:12.160]  Hey, my friend.
[54:12.240 --> 54:12.920]  You know who this is?
[54:13.400 --> 54:14.940]  Oh, hey, how are you?
[54:15.500 --> 54:15.940]  Pretty good.
[54:16.040 --> 54:17.480]  You'll never guess where I am.
[54:17.760 --> 54:18.640]  Okay, tell me.
[54:19.620 --> 54:23.100]  I am in Pyongyang, North Korea.
[54:23.720 --> 54:24.800]  Get out of here.
[54:25.100 --> 54:26.340]  Yeah, that's true.
[54:26.840 --> 54:30.300]  Uh, I gotta say, this, this, this call is extremely expensive.
[54:30.500 --> 54:40.780]  It's, uh, it's at least six euros a minute, but, you know, it's, it's worth it just to, just to, uh, say that this is the most incredible experience I think I've ever been through in my life.
[54:40.780 --> 54:46.820]  Yes, oh my goodness, today, uh, well actually, maybe it's yesterday, maybe it's tomorrow, you can correct me.
[54:47.120 --> 54:52.100]  It's the 20th anniversary of the very first edition of Off the Hook on WBAI.
[54:52.200 --> 54:52.440]  Wow.
[54:52.660 --> 54:59.280]  I was invited in, and I just kind of sat around, I was too shy to talk on the air, and I was just the guy who sat in the background and laughed a lot.
[54:59.760 --> 55:07.180]  And it kind of developed into this, where now I'm here, sitting, and talking, and it's probably one of the greatest experiences I've had in my life.
[55:07.180 --> 55:15.980]  It's completely opened my eyes to a whole new world of things, and now I hope to actually continue doing radio for the rest of my time.
[55:16.580 --> 55:21.120]  The telephone keeps ringing, so I ripped it off the wall.
[55:22.020 --> 55:26.580]  I cut myself while shaving, now I can't make a call.
[55:27.580 --> 55:33.000]  And now I got a headache, or maybe it's the tooth I'm in the know.
[55:33.000 --> 55:37.460]  Things couldn't get much worse, I've gots to tell the truth.
[55:38.040 --> 55:42.880]  No, it couldn't get much worse, but if they could, they would.
[55:43.160 --> 55:45.800]  Bum-dilly-bomb, but the best, expect the worst.
[55:46.420 --> 55:48.280]  I hope that's understood.
[55:48.600 --> 55:49.420]  Bum-dilly-bomb!
[55:54.960 --> 55:59.300]  I just ran out of milk, there's no paper in the loo.
[55:59.480 --> 56:00.420]  Bum-dilly-bomb!
[56:00.680 --> 56:04.880]  And now it started raining, like we've come to do it.
[56:04.980 --> 56:05.880]  Bum-dilly-bomb!
[56:05.880 --> 56:10.500]  And now I begin to wonder, how bad can you get?
[56:11.700 --> 56:15.860]  A burger thumbs in through my door, makes my TV set.
[56:16.840 --> 56:21.600]  So why light up a cigarette, listen to some sounds?
[56:22.700 --> 56:26.880]  Set my house on fire, burnt it to the ground.
[56:27.940 --> 56:32.180]  Couldn't get much worse, but if they could, they would.
[56:32.420 --> 56:35.100]  Bum-dilly-bomb, but the best, expect the worst.
[56:35.100 --> 56:37.600]  I hope that's understood.
[56:37.820 --> 56:38.800]  Bum-dilly-bomb!
[56:44.230 --> 56:44.950]  I hope that's understood.
[56:44.950 --> 56:48.670]  And now I've got a console, my brother's on the run.
[56:49.850 --> 56:54.150]  I might have a change of luck, before my day is done.
[56:55.250 --> 56:59.550]  Couldn't get much worse, but if they could, they would.
[56:59.830 --> 57:02.450]  Bum-dilly-bomb, but the best, expect the worst.
[57:03.130 --> 57:04.950]  I hope that's understood.
[57:05.350 --> 57:06.210]  Bum-dilly-bomb!
[57:06.210 --> 57:32.140]  Bum-dilly-bomb!
[57:32.140 --> 57:33.780]  Your dynamite, BOOM!